Originally posted by parshooter
RE: Masters in HD

You guys are killin' me. Found out only tonight that I could of seen it with DirectTV. Bad research 3 weeks ago led me to think it would've been unavailable in my area (G'ville 32653)

KiddJoey: INHD, through what means, Comcast Cable? or Sat?
FamilyMan: What broadcast source are using to get the signal?


Your 2 posts alone confirm that I've gotta get it one way or another.

Arnie's last walk tomorrow should be incredible.

INHD is on Comcast. 3 weeks ago no one knew that part of the tourney would be broadcast on Dish and Directv in hd. Ken H over in the programming forum found out about this on Wednesday night around 6:00pm. The weekend hd coverage will solely be on the digital CBS stations. I don't know if your local CBS affil is broadcasting in hd but if they are you can at least watch the weekend coverage.

AFH,

I'm using ComCast for INHD, from what I've read DirectTV has it on channel 84. . .

I have searched to no avail...

Why is the sound so low on the HD channels on Comcast Cable? When I change to a non-HD channel it practically blows the speakers if I don't turn it down first. Very, very annoying!

Originally posted by Advance The Man
I have searched to no avail...

Why is the sound so low on the HD channels on Comcast Cable? When I change to a non-HD channel it practically blows the speakers if I don't turn it down first. Very, very annoying!

I wish I could answer that question. I complained about the same issue twice on the phone and email to Comcast. Got smart a-- answer over phone... it was my equipment. Got no reply from email. I mute the sound when I surf the channels. Bummer but it saves my ears. Years ago when I did a little TV repair, they had circuits such as AGC ( auto gain control). They worked to level out the sound from different sources. I guess with all the new chips, IC's and whatever we do not need these old circuits anymore, yeah right.

Maybe it is the equipment. A few mos ago Comcast told me they would have the HD PVR equipment. Have they released it yet?

I've got to do something, it may be a deal killer and I'll go back to D*

Hey guys

My old big screen just died a sad, sad death so I'm about to make the leap to HDTV.

One question I have, if I get a DirecTV HD receiver, can that same receiver be used to receive HDTV location stations (obviously with the appropriate antenna)?

thanks!

Phod,

Yes, every DirecTV receiver that I know of includes an OTA receiver also. Just plug an antenna to it and watch local HD channels. Good luck.

Sweet, thanks. That helps save a bit of money ;)

No PBS HD on Friday nights?

Can someone recommend a good HDTV antenna and where in Jax to get it? I'm about 7-8 miles from the station I believe. I live at 9A and Phillips HWY.

Thanks!

Anyone :)

I've been using a Radio Shack $39.99 antenna, stuck in my attic and I can pick up every station (including 44-1) down here in Fruit Cove. However, as many have discovered, you could potentially be right on top of the antenna farm and experience strange things like multipath, dorpouts, etc.

Be prepared to higher, lower, etc. the antenna until you find the sweet spot. Believe it or not, with my attic installation, just moving the antenna a inch one way or the other causes stations to come in or not. It took me a while to find the correct positioning.

I just noticed an interesting new OTA antenna today in a configuration that I hadn't seen before. (Phod is it you...???)

Basically, it's mid- sized OTA antenna mounted right near the peak of a 1 story house, but it's mounted to the roof using a satellite dish arm. Personally, I've never thought of that type of mount.. It's in the south Jax area-- 9'ish miles from the towers, and I'm sure that the lack of height adjustment ability probably isn't too much of an issue. (especially since I'm only about 1-2 miles closer, and mine's in the attic)

Cool!

--Bill

Heh not me, haven't gotten the TV yet. Looks like my big screen that died is too expensive to fix so I'll be joining the HDTV ranks pretty soon.

I'm a little nervous about getting OTA HDTV because of antenna installation and such. Did most of you guys do this yourself or did you have a company do the hookup for you? If you hired someone, who did you hire that you would recommend? How hard is it to hook up yourself? Are there wireless antennas? Might be a dumb question but I'm nervous about wiring from an outdoor or attic antenna to my TV cause I have no clue what I'm doing, heh.

OTA is definitely my best option I think because I already have DirecTV and want to keep it for NFL Sunday Ticket this fall. So getting Comcast HD would be a waste of money.

Thanks very much for the help.

Dick Heuer of WJCT sent me an e-mail in response to my query as to what happened to HD on WJCT. He said they had a transmitter failure last Wednesday, but things should be back to normal now.

Phod,

I installed my attic antenna myself. I went to the lowes near us, and bought a channelmaster antenna for about $35 and put that in the attic. I took a 1" diameter piece of PVC into the attic, with a 2" drywall screw, and used a cordless drill to screw it into an overhead rafter that I could safely reach. Then I slid the antenna up onto the bottom of the pvc, and tightened it down in the direction that I was getting the best signal. the whole process took about 30-45 minutes. The hardest part was making sure I had good footing on all the rafters that I was stepping on, and opening up the antenna itself among the various supports up there. I don't remember what size it was that I installed, but I think that the length of the antenna is 45" (but I could be way off). I get a great signal on all channels with no dropouts. BTW- I'm near the corner of Losco rd. & Hood Rd. S.-- about 3/4" mile due west of the avenues mall (as the crow flies)

--Bill

Thanks for the info.

Yeah I'm not too far from you. I'm off Greenland Rd on Lake Fern Drive (first subdivison after the 95 overpass).

My problem is I don't have attic space above my television so I may have to go on the roof. Or is it possible to have it indoors or will it not work unless it's around "attic height" so to speak.

Really appreciate your help :)

Phod, can you install an outdoor antenna close to your D* dish?

if so just use a diplexer and combine the Satelite with the Antenna then use another dipelexer inside the house to split the signal back.

My DTV dish was installed on the side of my house above my cable box. The signal goes into the cable box then I just split the signal out where my television is at. I didn't do the installation, DTV did

So I could put it there, but once again it's not on the roof but it certainly could be put on the roof above that location if the signal could go through the cable box like the satellite does and split as you indicate.

Would this work like you're saying?

I've been hearing good things about the winegard squareshooter antenna from this forum and other forums-- alot of people seem to have good results with them for the UHF and upper VHF channels (which suits our market). It's an antenna that has a very small profile, and with the bracket, can attach to the satellite mast. (although our dishes are pointed SW, and from the southern jax area, the OTA antenna has to point generally North-- which doesn't necessarily correlate to the a optimal co-mointing location for both)

I haven't been watching the local thread lately, but has anyone tried a squareshooter yet?

In Jax, what's Comcast's bare minimum cost for receiving HDTV through them? Can you just have a basic cable setup then pay the box rental fee as well as the HDTV-only programming fee?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Phod
In Jax, what's Comcast's bare minimum cost for receiving HDTV through them? Can you just have a basic cable setup then pay the box rental fee as well as the HDTV-only programming fee?

Thanks!

I have an outdoor OTA Rat Shack antenna with a rotor connected to my Directv rec. The install wasn't hard at all and it took about 30 to 45 minutes. I had one other person helping, but you could do it by yourself. I have it mounted on a poll about 6 feet above my roofline. I drilled a hole for the wires into the house and I connected my wires for the antenna and rotor to a groundingblock and then into the house. Done. As simply as that. I think that you can have someone come out and install the antenna for you, but it will cost anywhere between 150 and 250.

As far as Comcast goes, I called months ago to inquire about getting only hd locals. The pricing goes as follows. You have to get the basic cable package which is 12.99 or 13.99 per month. Then you also pay 5 dollars per month for the box rental. So with tax it is about 20.00 amount. If it is a first time install it will cost you a 29.99 install fee plus the first months cost. So to answer you question, yes you can.

I just decided that b/c I could rec all of the local hd stations via my ota antenna for free, there wasn't any need for me to pay for them. You may feel differently, but you can decide for yourself if the costs are worth it.

Originally posted by petergaryr
Dick Heuer of WJCT sent me an e-mail in response to my query as to what happened to HD on WJCT. He said they had a transmitter failure last Wednesday, but things should be back to normal now.

Good news. I was beginning to think they were a "one-shot" wonder. Now if the chewing gum works on the transmitter, maybe we will see some more HD on PBS until the next??.

Phod-

I have an Electrohome ECP-4000 with line doubler and some extra input boards for cheap if you are interested, send me an e-mail or PM. I haven't used it in about 9 months. I replaced it with a DLP. PS- This is a CRT projector so if you are not in the habit of converging and tweaking, don't consider a CRT Projector.

Does anyone know if Comcast is supplying the Mot. 6200 with active firewire yet? Anyone know when they will have the DVR?

Originally posted by Ross Moody
Good news. I was beginning to think they were a "one-shot" wonder. Now if the chewing gum works on the transmitter, maybe we will see some more HD on PBS until the next??.

It looked like the chewing gum worked last night. The Nova broadcast was wonderful. It was not in 5.1 though. Congratulations to PBS.

Originally posted by Don Landis
Does anyone know if Comcast is supplying the Mot. 6200 with active firewire yet? Anyone know when they will have the DVR?

I picked up the Mot 6200 from Comcast Customer Service and firewire is active. Still having problems (pixelation, screen pauses) with the firewire port. I've tried the RadioShack RF chokes but still have same problems. Suppose that running wireless network, cordless phones and wireless baby cameras/monitor doesn't help my cause ?

Haven't heard of anyone in our market with the 6208 yet ?

Originally posted by pspun
It looked like the chewing gum worked last night. The Nova broadcast was wonderful. It was not in 5.1 though. Congratulations to PBS.

With Comcast HD in my area (Intracoastal) we had alot of pixelation and screen pauses with the Nova show on PBS. Never seen this before with any of the other HD channels and component ?

Originally posted by KiddJoey
With Comcast HD in my area (Intracoastal) we had alot of pixelation and screen pauses with the Nova show on PBS. Never seen this before with any of the other HD channels and component ?

Same here on Comcast in Northern St. Johns. It actually was doing it around 7:30 PM before the prime time HD programing. It did not get any better during the HD programs. I guess the chewing glum don' t stick on Comcast. That is assuming that OTA folks had no problems. Yes OR No???
If no we need to jump on Comcast for answers.:(

I had the same problems last evening with OTA WJCT DTHD and I can see the tower from my antenna. The signal meters on all three digital receivers were fluctuating wildly so that is obviously the issue. Typical:

DTC-100 Meter reading:
78
88
94
65
84
25
82
94
50
92
15
87
each second of logging. The other channels all are very steady here with typical 88 reading on channels. Something still isn't right with their RF output but the picture... Oh my what high quality! Smitty, the image quality on WJCT DT HD is second to none. Really impressive on my 92" wide screen with the TV3 DLP projector. I watched after the Pres' speech until you went off HD.
Get that RF working/fixed and it will be the finest looking signal I have ever seen!


Thanks for the update on the 6200. I know the early 169Time AVX system had similar issues and some were resolved with cleaning the environment but we really don't know if those remedies will work on the 6200/Comcast feed. Anyway, I'm glad to know Comcast has those 6200's in the area. I am thinking about adding Comcast Digital after I get back. I have analog now and am ready to do something with HD. Since I'm now airing programs on 117 I need to monitor that channel in digital which I can't now.

Originally posted by Ross Moody
Same here on Comcast in Northern St. Johns. It actually was doing it around 7:30 PM before the prime time HD programing. It did not get any better during the HD programs. I guess the chewing glum don' t stick on Comcast. That is assuming that OTA folks had no problems. Yes OR No???
If no we need to jump on Comcast for answers.:(

I did not have any problems with OTA, I watched the NOVA program at 11:00 pm.

Originally posted by Ross Moody
Same here on Comcast in Northern St. Johns. It actually was doing it around 7:30 PM before the prime time HD programing. It did not get any better during the HD programs. I guess the chewing glum don' t stick on Comcast. That is assuming that OTA folks had no problems. Yes OR No???
If no we need to jump on Comcast for answers.:(

I also watched the Nova program OTA after watching the Gilmore Girls in hd (love the Gilmore Girls, even though Loralie and Rory can be each be a spaz sometimes) :) and I didn't see the pixelation problem. A couple of nights ago I saw some brief flashes of green pixelation but that was it.

Have any of you guys gotten ISF calibration? And if so, can you recommend someone in Jax?

I can recommend Troy Janda. I've used his services on four different Pioneer RPTV's over the years. He very discriminating and detailed in his work and I will continue to use him in the future. He can be reached at:

Troy D. Janda
Imaging Fundamentals
tjanda@imagingfundamentals.com
904.268.1240
800.922.7871

Originally posted by Phod
Have any of you guys gotten ISF calibration? And if so, can you recommend someone in Jax?

I have and can also recommend Troy Janda. He calibrated my 65711 Mits and I'm very pleased with the results.

Jerry, CSI is not in HD, and the clock is about 46 minutes too fast.

P S Pun

Jerry, CSI is in HD now, thanks.

P S

I don't know how many of you have seen the good news, but come September Fox network will be broadcasting up to 6 NFL games per week in hd. That is freakin awesome. That means we will be able to see at least one game per week in hd here in Jax. Here is the link over in the programming forum: 2004 NFL on Fox in HD: Up to six games in hd on Fox per week (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=391168)

Two of those games are Jaguar games. Jerry, has Fox corporate sent you guys the equipment yet, and if so how long before you are up and running with hd and 5.1? Btw, we will also get 5.1 from the Fox programs b/c the splicer tech used for hd transmission be send allow the 5.1 signal without the station needing a 5.1 decoder.

Can't wait for this.

Antonio - according to Jerry back in january/february - they are ready to go..


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3391931#post3391931

But the two Jags games will be blackouts.

Originally posted by Gator99
Antonio - according to Jerry back in january/february - they are ready to go..


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3391931#post3391931

Thanks.

Originally posted by grittree
But the two Jags games will be blackouts.

Hey, such is life. As long as we get the other hd games on Fox I don't care if we ever see the Jags on tv.

Jerry, the clock is still 46 minutes too fast. This presents some difficulty for timed recording for my DVCR. Please set the clock, thanks.

pspun

I received my Hitachi 57S500 over the weekend and have DirecTV coming on Wednesday to hook up DTV HDTV and OTA HDTV. Can't wait to join the Jacksonville HDTV group :)

Just wish it was football season. Gonna be a long wait.

Originally posted by AFH
Jerry, has Fox corporate sent you guys the equipment yet, and if so how long before you are up and running with hd and 5.1? Btw, we will also get 5.1 from the Fox programs b/c the splicer tech used for hd transmission be send allow the 5.1 signal without the station needing a 5.1 decoder.

Can't wait for this.

We have the equipment we need to broadcast 720p when it comes available from Fox, however we will not be able to rebroadcast the 5.1 due to equipment limitations at our studios.

Jerry

Originally posted by WTEV-JD
We have the equipment we need to broadcast 720p when it comes available from Fox, however we will not be able to rebroadcast the 5.1 due to equipment limitations at our studios.

Jerry

Jerry, welcome back. Please adjust the clock on 19-1, thanks.

PS

Jerry, I am confused, why will we not be able to receive the 5.1 DD signal here in JAX. From everything I have read on the the new "bit splicing" technology the local affiliates will have nothing to do with the original HD/5.1 signal, except to add local information - thus we should receive the HD/5.1 signal??


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3668922#post3668922

Yeh, Jerry! Why won't be able to get the 5.1 signal if the affils do not need any additional equipment?

Has anyone noticed problems with 25-1 (ABC) over the last week or so? Sometimes the picture will pixelate with some of the pixels being green. No other channel does this. Maybe something on their end. I would like to hear from someone else who sees this before I communicate with the engineer over there.

Yes, Wee-Bey, I noticed it last night watching Alias. At first I thought it was my reception, but the meter stayed constant with the pixelation and sound dropoff.

PS

Originally posted by pspun
Jerry, welcome back. Please adjust the clock on 19-1, thanks.

PS

Thank you, Jerry. CBS is back to 47-1 (instead of 19-1), and the clock is accurate.

Yes, I too have seen artifacts for the last few days in the OTA ABC signal.
Both in SD & HD programming. Thought maybe it was my equipment but no other channel has the problem.


HD_Hobbit

Same here--25-1 has been tearing and pixellating since Sunday.

ABC-Pixelation

I have noticed it on Comcast cable also.

Does anyone use the Zenith Silver Sensor for an antenna? I heard it's a great antenna but it only indicates UHF on the box (though I've read it will pick up VHF signals). Given Jax's VHF and UHF signals, this makes me nervous. Should I try it or avoid it?

Let me know thanks.

Okay, now that everyone has chimed in, I think it's time to contact the engineer over at WJXX-DT. I'm going to put in an email to him as soon as I finish here. So we now have confirmation that the problem isn't just OTA but also cable. BTW, anyone know the email address for Bill (engineer) over at WJXX. I'm looking at their website and there isn't an email address there for him. If you know it you can PM it to me if you don't want put it on the board.

Originally posted by Phod
Does anyone use the Zenith Silver Sensor for an antenna? I heard it's a great antenna but it only indicates UHF on the box (though I've read it will pick up VHF signals). Given Jax's VHF and UHF signals, this makes me nervous. Should I try it or avoid it?

Let me know thanks.

I would advise that you check over in the hardware forum and do a search for Silver Sensor. As far as any experience from people on "our" (Jax) board, I am not aware of any posts pertaining to an experience with that antenna, but I could be wrong.

biellison@wtlv.gannett.com -- Bishop Ellison - Engineer

Ktonning@firstcoastnews.com - Ken Tonning - Station manager

Originally posted by Gator99
biellison@wtlv.gannett.com -- Bishop Ellison - Engineer

Ktonning@firstcoastnews.com - Ken Tonning - Station manager

Thanks Jeff. I will email Bishop right now.

Does anyone use the Zenith Silver Sensor for an antenna? I heard it's a great antenna but it only indicates UHF on the box (though I've read it will pick up VHF signals). Given Jax's VHF and UHF signals, this makes me nervous. Should I try it or avoid it?

I tried mine a couple months ago when I first moved here. It really did not work anywhere near as well as my outdoor UHF only antenna currently mounted on a pole in my living room. (still procrastinatiing ;) ) However the Silver Sensor did work fine on ABC which is (IIRC) the only non-UHF digital station.

- Tom

Email has been sent to Bishop over at WJXX.

Hey guys, I tested out my antenna tonight in preparation for DirecTv coming tomorrow. CBS (47.1) and PBS (7.1) are rock solid gorgeous. But I get no signal from NBC, ABC, and WB so far. These should be set to 12.1, 25.1 and 17.1 respectively right?

Shouldn't I receive at least something, no signal is kinda scary :) Any help with setup would be appreciative.

Okay update, 13.1 NBC comes in gorgeous too

25.1 and 17.1 to go. Are these the right digital channels?

Originally posted by Phod
Okay update, 13.1 NBC comes in gorgeous too

25.1 and 17.1 to go. Are these the right digital channels?

Yeh, those are the right channels. Now you just need to get 25-1 ABC, 30-1 Fox and 17-1 WB. The other channels are 4-1 and 59-1. Don't worry about them b/c they are not broadcasting an hd signal.

OT, just got done watching the Gilmore Girls in hd on the WB 17-1. Good episode tonight. Now I'm watching the hd playoff basketball game on the special events channel on Directv channel 84. Good night for hd.

Okay 30-1 comes in great. I also do get 4-1 though as you say, I doubt I'll be watching channel 4 a bunch ;)

Now just ABC and WB. Hope I can get WB in before tomorrow night's Angel :)

Are 25-1 and 17-1 know to be tougher to get in? I mean everything is simply flawless with the antenna in the same exact position. 13-1, 47-1, 7.1, 30.1, etc. But absolutely zero from 25-1 and 17-1.

According to antennaweb I'm 8.5 to 8.9 miles away.

Any thoughts? Granted, I cant move the antenna much cause of the short cable I have so I may have better luck moving it around more.

Originally posted by Phod
Are 25-1 and 17-1 know to be tougher to get in? I mean everything is simply flawless with the antenna in the same exact position. 13-1, 47-1, 7.1, 30.1, etc. But absolutely zero from 25-1 and 17-1.

According to antennaweb I'm 8.5 to 8.9 miles away.

Any thoughts? Granted, I cant move the antenna much cause of the short cable I have so I may have better luck moving it around more.

The only thing I have seen about someone having a probleming trying to get 17-1 is from a couple of individuals who lived near NAS. I think that was Jeff, but I think he resolved the issue with 17-1, by moving. 25-1 and 12-1 seem to be the easiest stations to pull in. I remember when I first setup my outdoor antenna back in Nov of 02, 12-1 and 25-1 were the first ones to come in without any trouble.

I bet you'll get those channels you are missing by rotating that antenna some more. The trade-off is that you'll probably lose some of the channels you are getting now and if that is the case you will have to continually rotate the antenna to get the channels you would like to watch. Tradeoffs.

Enjoy,

Thanks for the help. Yeah, weird how the others are dead on perfect without any antenna movement but these two are troublesome.

I bought the Radio Shack 15-1880. I probably should have gone with my gut and got the Zenith Silver Sensor which seems to get high marks. May pick it up tomorrow to test it out also then return whichever one I don't use.

What is FOX 30.1 broadcasting? I thought Fox didn't have any programming in HDTV? So what's on isn't in HDTV just "better"? Cause it looks great, heh.

BTW I live off of Greenland Rd. on the Southside in 32258.

Originally posted by Phod
Thanks for the help. Yeah, weird how the others are dead on perfect without any antenna movement but these two are troublesome.

I bought the Radio Shack 15-1880. I probably should have gone with my gut and got the Zenith Silver Sensor which seems to get high marks. May pick it up tomorrow to test it out also then return whichever one I don't use.

What is FOX 30.1 broadcasting? I thought Fox didn't have any programming in HDTV? So what's on isn't in HDTV just "better"? Cause it looks great, heh.

BTW I live off of Greenland Rd. on the Southside in 32258.

On FOX, they broadcast in 480p widescreen which is the what DVD is, that is why it looks better than normal tv but not as good as hd. In August, FOX will broadcast their programming in hd.

Is there any correlation between analog antenna signal strength and the corresponding digital station signal strength?

For example, I don't get in 25 analog very well with the antenna and get nothing in for the digital station. But I do get 17 in decent analog but then nothing digital. Just curious if there's any correlation.

Why is football season so far away :(

17-1, the WB, is broadcasting a low power signal (half pwr I think) which is also directional vice omni-directional. I know the radiated direction is not north, I want to say more towards St Augustine or something like that. ABC is a little harder to get, but I can pull in abc at around 68 on my older hughes box with nbc in the 90's and everything else pegged at 100. I am in Kingsland Ga by the way and I think I am 37 miles from the antennas or so. I have a 10' radio shack YAGI on a 25' pole. I have all but given up trying to get WB, emails to the station either go unanswered, or basically say that there is not enough "market" in SE GA for them to worry about it. What a shame. I know a lot of sailors with bonus money that like to buy tech/computers/etc. I should know, I am one of them! :)
Take care
Jamie
PS
About the analog and digital Signals, with analog you can recieve enough signal to make some kind of picture wich may result in ghosting and intereference/static. With the digital signal you either get it or you don't. But as far as transmission power, no they are different between analog and digital.

Originally posted by Phod
Is there any correlation between analog antenna signal strength and the corresponding digital station signal strength?

For example, I don't get in 25 analog very well with the antenna and get nothing in for the digital station. But I do get 17 in decent analog but then nothing digital. Just curious if there's any correlation.

Why is football season so far away :(

Some have said that there is a correlation and others say no. I could and still cannot the analoge version of channel 25 with an outdoor antenna. But when I tried to get the digital verison of ch. 25 I was able to. Alot of variables go into these things so it isn't an exact science.

I feel you on the football season.

The answer to receiving the other stations may simply be rotating the antenna an inch or two to either the left or right on its horizontal axis. This is the case for me here in Fruit Cove. An inch one way or the other and I totally lose 30-1, and 47-1 starts to break up badly. Back in the "sweet spot", I get them both.

Originally posted by Phod
Okay 30-1 comes in great. I also do get 4-1 though as you say, I doubt I'll be watching channel 4 a bunch ;)

Now just ABC and WB. Hope I can get WB in before tomorrow night's Angel :)

Phod, did you try 10-1 for ABC?

PS

Funny you should mention that pspun.

I went out and bought the Silver Sensor (Zenith) antenna from Sears today. I hooked it up (I actually joined it with the other Radio Shack antenna for now) and I get in 17-1 and 10-1 (ABC) awesome. Every signal is near the top. Thanks for your help guys.

After the DirecTV guy comes and I finally get my setup situated I'll try just the Zenith antenna and see if it works.. if not I can live with the double setup for now, heh.

I posted this in HDTV Hardware but I wanted to share it with you guys since you may have some local numbers I can call to try and get better service than the horrible crap I received today.

Well, after the past week of buying my first HDTV, getting antennas for local station, and being sent the Hughes HTL-HD from DirecTV, the day came for the DirecTV installer to come and hook it all up so I could get DirecTV's wonderful set of HD channels. Couldn't wait for Discovery HD. Well, I'll be waiting a bit longer after today's debacle.

Installer guy comes almost an hour late. Well, it was for 1 to 5 pm, he arrives at 6:00 pm. I don't feel he was competent at all. I practically had to show him how to hook up some things.

The receiver gets installed, mostly by me, and we go through the setup etc. But for some reason the HD channels aren't coming in. ESPN HD has a "purchase pay per view" banner at the bottom. Discovery says it's not available in this area. None of the others work. Regular DTV seems to be working, like CNN, ABC Family, but then we try Channel 400, which is supposedly a Spanish DirecTV ad I think (and I assume a sign the receiver is seeing all 3 dishes correctly) but it's just a DirecTV logo. The installer confirmed that's not correct. I checked my local channels and they were screwed up. They appeared in the guide correctly but when you selected them, it was some other channel, who knows what. Like at 7:00 when "Entertainment Tonight" was supposed to be on, it was showing some movie. It was clearly not my locals.

So the installer says the receiver is bad. Okay, fine. I try to calm down that it's been a week since I paid DirecTV for the receiver (which I feel I was overcharged at an alarming $398, shipping/tax/install etc seeing Circuit City has it for $299).

The real horror begins when I try to call DirecTV. I've never dealt with more unhelpful people in all my years with technical support. I am a 4 year customer, spend about $70 bucks a month plus Sunday Ticket and just spent $500 on the HD receiver + a DirecTV Tivo. But I am treated like I am a first time customer...heck, worse than that.

I literally went through 8-12 people. Most wanted to walk through the usual bullcrap with the receiver. Unplug it and plug it back in; let's go through initial setup again; etc. When we finally convinced them the receiver was bad, all I wanted was a new receiver to be sent out. So they said "installation" has to help you with that. I'd get transfered to installation. Then installation would say "oh sorry, technical needs to help you with that." and FOUR times I got disconnected going to technical. And I would have to call back again and explain to some other newbie my problem all over again. And hang on hold for large amounts of time yet again.

I even tried to ask for supervisors and supposedly got supervisors but they were equally as rude and seemed to have little interest in trying to help me.

Finally I just wanted my $398 back. They could come get the broken receiver, credit my account $398, and I'd go purchase one from Circuit City. But no dice. Since the install was done, I was stuck. No refund. Unbelieveable. Here I have paid $400 over a week ago and I still have nothing to show for it. The woman on the phone said I have entered a "verbal agreement". A verbal agreement to get screwed?

So now I moved back to just send me another receiver. Finally I got someone who would not transfer me into the darkness of space. I was hoping they would overnight it as a sign of courtesy for the trouble I went through for 4 hours. But nope, they say takes 1-2 business days. Given I did this around 10:00pm EST I imagine it won't be here until Monday at the earliest.

Who knows if it will work. I certainly won't be getting my money back that's apparent now. I spent more on the receiver thinking I was paying extra for quality service. I was sent a barely competent tech and then given the worst customer service I've ever received.

I have been a total loyal DirecTV customer. I have told all of my videophile friends how great DirecTV is. Little did I know they're great until you actually have a problem then they're horrible.

If there are any DirecTV representatives out there that can give me a person to call that won't give me the runaround and talk to me like I'm a 5 year old, I'd love to speak with them. If any of you have any advice on how I should proceed, I'd love to hear it.

Thanks very much and for listening to my rant.

Phod, I feel sorry for your experience with DirecTV. I have Comcast. My son does have DirecTV though. Hope all will work out for you.

PS

Did anyone watch The Tonight Show tonight? Was it in HDTV for you? Was last night but tonight's wasnt.

Phod, sorry about your experience, but it sounds as though the 3 lnbs are not aimed in the right spot. I have had the three lnb dish since Nov of 02 and the problems that you have do not seem to be your rec. If something was wrong with the rec it would most likely be the access card but you were recv'ing programming so I doubt that. It just sounds like the guy did a bad installation and your dish most likely isn't aimed correctly. Get them to redo the aiming of the dish.

The lnb on the far right is the one used to pickup the local stations here in Jax on transponder 30 on satellite 119 (B). The hd channels are also on that satellite but are on transponder 22 or 23. That is one way you can check to see if everything is setup properly. Maybe this site can give you some insight: Dbstalk (http://dbstalk.com/)

Good luck and have to come back out to re-aim that dish. If you want, when I get home from work I can get on top of roof and tell the azimuth, elevation and the other numbers you may need so that you can check for yourself if you like.

Hey thanks AFH. I think the sat is okay. I see things correctly on my normal receiver (I've had the triple LNB for awhile). Channel 99 is the correct 110 Test channel and I see my locals fine. Plus the signal meter responds appropriately. Also 400 is the DirecTV ad in Spanish.

But on the new receiver, 99 is some other channel, my locals are totally hosed. Channel 12 is Sundance and Channel 4 is HBO 2. And channel 400 is just a logo.

I have another tech coming tomorrow to verify everything is hooked up right in anticipation of the new receiver arrival.

Originally posted by Phod
Hey thanks AFH. I think the sat is okay. I see things correctly on my normal receiver (I've had the triple LNB for awhile). Channel 99 is the correct 110 Test channel and I see my locals fine. Plus the signal meter responds appropriately. Also 400 is the DirecTV ad in Spanish.

But on the new receiver, 99 is some other channel, my locals are totally hosed. Channel 12 is Sundance and Channel 4 is HBO 2. And channel 400 is just a logo.

I have another tech coming tomorrow to verify everything is hooked up right in anticipation of the new receiver arrival.

I didn't know you already had the 3 lnb dish. Well, in that case it sounds like the rec, but you already know this. Good luck and let us what happens.

For those with cable, Comcast is offering The Houston Open on INHD/USA.

phod, if you were a D* customer for over 4 years and at least subscribe to Total Choice pluse one premium - you should have got the $99 deal from D* -- I would do some reading in the hardware section and start calling my friend you really got screwed on price.

Quick note about ABC - supposedly their analog transmitter is in Orange park and their digital transmitter is at the antenna farm on the Southside - at least according to Antenaweb.org and other websites - so if this is true do not compare the analog from this station with digital.

Yea Gator, I called DirecTV today and asked for Customer Retention. Got a $275 credit.

Excellent deal Phod -- as AFH (Antonio) mentioned I have (in the past) had some problems with reception, but I am on the West Side of the River - I did live North of NAS in Riverside area and was having all kinds of issues with Fox, but when I moved to Doctor's Lake area I first had no problems, of course I am using a 5' UHF/VHF antenna from Home Depot on a 30' mast - about 3-4 months ago I started having issues with WB and ever since I have not been able to receive that channel, but all others are 100%. I think my issue might have something to do with a very old Mits HD receiver (Hughes E-86 clone) -- then again the WB is not on my list of most important TV to watch. Good luck with the antenna it truly is a "art form" to dial in the channels.

PHOD,
This may seem like a silly question, but was the Hughes RCVR set up correctly for the 3 LNB dish and did DTV actually activate the HD channels?
Just two things you could verify before the new rcvr arrives. I have two hughes rcvrs, the new one and the older one and a sony non-HD and they all work fine with no problems. But then I don't have to deal with dirctv since Kingsland is a "rural" area so the Phone company takes care of everything out of Brantly County GA. I get very polite CSRs but they are not always the most techinical.
Hope everything works out for you.
Jamie

Hey guys, I received the replacement Hughes HD receiver and .... it works! So I guess it was the other receiver. This one auto detected the 3 LNB dish fine and everything comes in correctly. Watched some basketball in HD. Yum!

Question to everyone watching OTA HD, my color seems to be off some, not to mention the PQ seems to be lower than normal. Anyone else notice anything like this?
thanks
jamie

Things looked about normal on Smallville and Law and Order.

Things looked about normal on Smallville and Law and Order.

Grrrrrrrrr. I haven't been able to get WB reliably for some weeks now. Last weekend I moved my antenna to the attic and made it much worse somehow.

- Tom

Gilmore Girls looked good. That is the only hd thing I have watched this week. But I'll be watching CSI and ER tonight so I'll be able to look at some more stuff for comparison.

I went through video ess tonight and the DVD is looking quite nice, haven't watched any HD though. Maybe this will solve everything. Also picked up a new set of Comp cables to run from the hughes box to the tv.
My chief complaint was skin tones looked really red and "crushed" I say this not knowing if there is a technical definition for this term. but it is what I call it. It just seemed "off" and almost suffering from compression/pixellation. I have my hughes running through a denon 4800 rcvr to a 65" mits HD ready display. I was using the cheapo cables from hughes because I just completely forgot about them. Lets see what happens. Thanks for the response!
Jamie

Originally posted by trbarry
Grrrrrrrrr. I haven't been able to get WB reliably for some weeks now. Last weekend I moved my antenna to the attic and made it much worse somehow.
- Tom I just received my HD tivo on Tuesday, and got it hooked up. I had an E86 with an attic mount antenna and I was able to receive all the local channels, including the weak signal of WJEB, the religious channel at a real low power.

Now, however, I took the same OTA single-run cable and put it into the HR10-250, and I've lost some channels. Currently, I get the following from my position at between 6.9 to 7.2 miles from the towers:

at a compass direction of 359 deg from my house, I get the following....
digital xxx (yyy - psip remap) I get at a quality level* = zzz
19 (47-1) = 92
32 (30-1) = 90
38 (7-*) = 95
44 (58-1) = -0- last night, -0- tonight

at a compass direction of 2.3 deg from my house, I get the following.....
34 (17-1) = -0- last night, 0-10 quality tonight, but not enough for a picture

at a compass direction of 7.1 deg from my house, I get the following.....
10 (25-1) = 10-30 last night, 20-40 tonight. Not enough for a picture either night
13 (12-1) = 69 both nights, steady picture, no breakups noticed on SD
42 (4-1) = 50-60 last night with some breakups, 40-50 tonight, more frequent breakups.

Looking at the meter, on this unit it really seems more like an interpreted strength of the signal after it takes into account frame drops and corrections. From breaking out the stations by degrees to the towers, I see that I probably have my antenna pointed a bit too west of the farm, but it looks like the OTA receiver in the HDtivo is a bit weaker than the E86, especially since the E86 could pick up channel 44 (58-1) with about a 50 on the strength meter, and a continuous picture, whereas the HDtivo cannot under the same antenna positioning and reception conditions.

but, that's my $0.02. I'm not giving up on it, I'll be in the attic bumping the antenna saturday in the early morning to tweak direction, and possibly to amplify or attenuate..... More on the outcome later....

--Bill

Let me know how the TIVO part works out, I am really interested in getting one, but it is a big chunk of cash so I would love a rundown of the features and its ease of use.
Jamie

Jamie,

do you currently have a newer directivo (a series 2)? If so, then the interface is nearly identical, it has just been extended in the menus for HD specific items, such as resolutions, screen ratios, etc. That's a real quick gloss-over, but there's a whole forum about it here... http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=36

Bill, so the only OTA the channel that you are not getting with the HD Tivo is WJEB? I wanna get one of those HD-Tivos so bad, but I'll wait till more maufactures make them. That way I can get one for about 400 dollars. I already have two of the regular Directivos.

Jamie, maybe your settings changed, but you are right to go get Video Essentials and see if anything is off. Maybe it was the particular channel you were looking. I hope that you weren't looking at Navy NCSI b/c the skins tones on that show are wayyyyyy off :). There was a thread about that show and its skin tone problems over in the programming thread. As far as "crush" goes, skins tones do not usually get "crushed". Blacks tend to get crushed and more so on digital displays b/c CRTs that have black crush are easier to correct.

Antonio,

I definitely need to realign my OTA antenna. I seem to get strong signals from the full power stations off the tower at 359deg. (FOX/CBS/PBS) , but I am not receiving the stations on the tower at 7deg very well. If it's cool up there toight, I'm going to realign my attic antenna this evening. More updates on this later.

As far as other manufacturers making the unit, there will be none. Directv had announced that all new receivers will be under the Directv brand name, and this is the first one. So I wouldn't hold out too much hope that we'll see one from samsung/rca/... (I'll find the link to Directv's statement on their new branding strategy)

--Bill

Here's the statement from Drectv.... http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=01_08_2004C

one quote from that press release....
"Over the course of the year, authorized manufacturers of DIRECTV hardware will migrate to a new standardized hardware specification, which will ensure that all DIRECTV customers enjoy a consistent user interface and experience. Similarly, the various consumer electronics brands currently associated with DIRECTV equipment will be replaced by the DIRECTV brand."

I currently do not have any type of Tivo, I have been waiting for the HD version. I do have a new hughes hd rcvr and to tell the truth I do not like that interface too much, the older hughes is much easier.

I was watching NAVY NCIS when the skin tones looked bad, but they seemed to be off on any HD program that was dark (ie in a building or at night). My girlfriend made a statement that everything in HD looked way too dark, so I busted out the VE disk and made some changes. I also upgraded the cables, and last night everything seemed much better. I guess it was a little of everything.
Thanks for the help.
Jamie

THIS IS A LITTLE OFF TOPIC....

I may be seperating from the Navy soon for administrative reasons and have been thinking of staying in the area. My question to everyone is what is the job market really like in Jax? I am finishing my BS in Electronics Engineering Tech here shortly, have some business and political science courses under my belt as well and have worked in retail sales part time. I am an ET in the Navy with maintenance training on variouse electronic equipment from Radar to Satelite communications.
I am plannning on contacting a Head Hunter but would love to stay in the area if I could. Don't get me wrong, I am not begging for a job, I am just curious what the job market is like from a civilian standpoint. Thanks for any insight.

Antenna aiming can be interesting. I recently needed to get more signal, since I couldn't split rabbit ears three ways and didn't want three rabbit ears either.
My house faces 45^ off the antenna farm, with the attic on the station side but the TVs on the back side. First try was (using a garden variety outdoor antenna) mounting it in the attic and bringing a monitor up there, getting mediocre strength. Next, I put it behind the house and laid it on a box. Great strength. Next I put it on a 10' pole that got it just above the gutter. Same good signal.
So looking through just one asphault roof surface gets mediocre, but going through the whole house improves. Go figure.
Also, with the good signal, I can aim anywhere in the general direction with no dropoff.
I guess the moral is to get a 100' of rg6 and some PVC pipe and move around. It might surprise you.

Originally posted by jamiecrane
THIS IS A LITTLE OFF TOPIC....

I may be seperating from the Navy soon for administrative reasons and have been thinking of staying in the area. My question to everyone is what is the job market really like in Jax? I am finishing my BS in Electronics Engineering Tech here shortly, have some business and political science courses under my belt as well and have worked in retail sales part time. I am an ET in the Navy with maintenance training on variouse electronic equipment from Radar to Satelite communications.
I am plannning on contacting a Head Hunter but would love to stay in the area if I could. Don't get me wrong, I am not begging for a job, I am just curious what the job market is like from a civilian standpoint. Thanks for any insight.

It all depends on what your area of interest is. I have been looking for work in my field (government finance-Master's in Public Adm/gov't finance. from FSU-2000) since Sept while working temporary assignments. With private sector employment alot hinges on how the economy is and as we all now things are iffy as of now. You just have to put out your resume to companies that do things you are interested in.

This is our May/June Thread.

Regards, PS

Anyone know what happend to the Kentucky Derby in HD yesterday? Reports from others around the country said is was better than last year. All I got was SD.

Looks like local NBC forgot to flip the switch yesterday during the Kentucky Derby.

Please use this thread for May and June, thanks.

PS

Please use the May/June thread, thanks.

There were some very good HD shots during the HP Classic yesterday. They finish up today on the Golf Channel, not in HD.

I have to say that I have been very impressed with the CBS golf coverage in HD. I try to watch everything that is in HD (even if I would normally not look at it if it wasn't HD:)) and compared to some other HD broadcasts I think the detail really stands out when the shots are on a golf course

Ogre

I am having Voom sat. service installed next week and wondering what other peoples experience is w/ it in jax. Also is the standard attena that they supply with it ok?

Originally posted by jmoran
I am having Voom sat. service installed next week and wondering what other peoples experience is w/ it in jax. Also is the standard attena that they supply with it ok?

I don't know if anyone on our thread has Voom!

I want to get it (VOOM), no contract and you can rent the equipment, I just don't really have room for 80 dollars more a month on top of my 100 dollar DTV bill. Maybe in a couple months....
Let us know how it turns out
jamie

Antonio-

satelliteguys.us has an excellent forum for VOOM. Go there and read everything you can and that should equip you to go with Voom with no surprises.

As I recall, the general experience has been good once installed but the installations have been nightmarish for many around the country. Also, if you had DishNetwork with an HDTV 61.5 dish then you shouyld be all set for a clear sky for VOOM. I may get Voom next year but I want to wait uintil they stop requiring "unprofessional" installers poking around your house.

I currently have D* and E* and Comcast analog. I am trying to get Comcast upgraded to digital too but that is difficult.


Jaimie- Good luck in your job quest. I can tell you that there is a need for a good broadcast electronics repair tech(betacam, cameras, DVCAM, DVCPRO etc.) in Jacksonville but that requires factory training usually. At least all the good ones I knew were factory trained on each piece of equipment.

Does anyone know our PBS station contact person's email address (Smitty?)? Thanks.

PS

pspun,

Per the link below, The Engineering Manager for PBS is Duane Smith (smitty1). He didn't leave an email, but I'm sure that you could call him at the station.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3041280#post3041280

--Bill

Thanks, Bill.

PS

Don,
Thanks for words of encouragement. I have a lot of formal schooling, but most of it deals with communications and Radar electronics. I will be getting my BS soon, so that helps a lot, but I really have no idea what I want to do. The problem is I can get a good job if I am willing to leave this area (head hunters call constantly) but I have really fallen in love with this part of the country. Oh well, I guess I will need to wait and see.
Jamie

For info, PGA golf in HD and Dolby Digital 5.1 was available on Comcast INHD/USA today and also scheduled for tomorrow.

If the local CBS WTEV-DT engineer is lurking, how can USA deliver HD with 5.1 digital to Jacksonville Comcast and you cannot???? It does not make sense to me since the same equipment, announcers, etc that were operating perfectly today, cannot pass 5.1 Dolby Digital Saturday and Sunday when you (WTEV-DT) are in control. What do you do to strip it rather than pass it? If USA can do it and with no equipment located here in Jacksonville, (to my knowledge) why can’t you? I have heard your explanation of no money for the “equipment”. What equipment? I smell a red herring.

Jamie I sent you a PM.

Ross, WTEV does not have the equipment to do 5.1.

Jaime- Do you have your 2nd Class FCC License? Would not be a bad idea to get that. Heck it's been so many years (1969 for me), do businesses/FCC still require it to work on 2 way communications/radar?


Ross- No red herrings- The process is that Dolby E is sent from the networks to the stations, They need to decode that Dolby E to baseband PCM digital audio for mix and then re-encode it to Dolby Digital 5.1, DD2.0 for mux into the ATSC stream. This requires at minimum 2 Dolby processors encoder and decoder and a 5.1 mix board. At best Digital LM100 monitoring system. Not your run of the mill Yamaha receiver stuff. WTEV/WAWS would need double the hardware as they are a duopoly Master control but Jerry could best describe how it would be implemented. I'm sure he has some tricks up his sleeve. :)

On the good side, I was in conversation with Bob Ross, CBS engineer VP in January and he is dead serious that all CBS O&O's will be DD5.1 or the engineers at stations will get fired! A bit strong but that was the O&O's. He also said that strong pressure will be put on the affiliates to do the same ASAP. Consequently, I suspect that Jerry will be having DD5.1 at WTEV with renewed priority if the network is behind it that much.

Originally posted by Don Landis

Ross- No red herrings- The process is that Dolby E is sent from the networks to the stations, They need to decode that Dolby E to baseband PCM digital audio for mix and then re-encode it to Dolby Digital 5.1, DD2.0 for mux into the ATSC stream. This requires at minimum 2 Dolby processors encoder and decoder and a 5.1 mix board. At best Digital LM100 monitoring system. Not your run of the mill Yamaha receiver stuff. WTEV/WAWS would need double the hardware as they are a duopoly Master control but Jerry could best describe how it would be implemented. I'm sure he has some tricks up his sleeve. :)

. [/B]
Thanks for the “technical” explanation of equipment needed for WTEV-DT to do 5.1 sounds. Who then provides all this equipment when CBS/USA/INHD/ and Comcast do something to push 5.1 Dolby Digital out of my speakers? On the subject of equipment or lack there of, another issue I have with WTEV-DT is an annoying visual horizontal flash accompanied with a audio pop every time they switch from the national feed to local feed to inject programming spots or local commercials. These spot switches occur at a minimum during prime time on the hour, quarter, half and three quarter. Therefore during my 8 to 10 PM viewing time we get anywhere from 8 to 32 flashes and pops a night when watching only CBS programs. I do not like to complain but this problem has been occurring since at least January and is very annoying. This has never happened while viewing NBC or ABC programming. The tape machine or whatever they use to insert these spots needs a damper, fader, better-trained operator or something. Sometimes they also even flash color bars after or before the spot.:confused:

Anyone watch Third Watch locally (10 pm Friday, 12-1). Supposed to be in HD but wasn't. This is OTA.

And now the picture is frozen (Third Watch). Never seen that happen before. Ahhh, the cost of being on the leading edge of technology......

Skip

Yep, same here. Thanks WTLV!

Yep, I noticed the problems also. How difficult is it for someone to watch it in the studio/engineering room and make sure it is working?

I'm new to the Jax area. Is there another place to go in town for HT gear besides CC, BB, and Sound Advise. I'll be looking to buy a new Sammy DLP HLP series monitor when they come out. Thanks in advance.

House of stereo on southside, but I do not know if they have samsung though.
Welcome to the area!
Jamie

CBS sends 5.1 audio as well as stereo audio to us at the studios here in town. Coming this fall FOX will do the same. Our encoding equipment does not gracefully switch between 5.1 and stereo, so switching from the HD feed to SD programming would be a disaster. In order to take advantage of the 5.1 feeds from Fox and CBS we would have to convert our SD audio to 5.1 and that is an expense that we are not prepared to bear right now. As the number of viewers grow, it will make more and more sense to invest in more/better digital equipment at the station here in town. I know its not a popular answer, but thats our situation right now.

Jerry

Originally posted by fsunoles1
I'm new to the Jax area. Is there another place to go in town for HT gear besides CC, BB, and Sound Advise. I'll be looking to buy a new Sammy DLP HLP series monitor when they come out. Thanks in advance.

Welcome to Jax! Sears used to carry the Samsung DLP's also. Check out the Rear Projection Units forum, and you should see best prices for the Samsung DLP's. I bought the HLM507W from the powerbuy in that forum almost two years ago.

PS

Thanks for the info. Pspun, how did the power buy work out last time? If it happens for the HLP models this time, I was thinking about doing it. I was a little nervous about not buying it at a local store though incase there are any problems. Any insight would be appreciated.

Originally posted by fsunoles1
Thanks for the info. Pspun, how did the power buy work out last time? If it happens for the HLP models this time, I was thinking about doing it. I was a little nervous about not buying it at a local store though incase there are any problems. Any insight would be appreciated.

Well, I joined the powerbuy in May of 2002, but didn't get the set until October. This was due to supply chain problems with Samsung back then (dock strike in the west coast at the time didn't help neither). We got very good deal on the powerbuy (saved about 20%). The powerbuy was with TVAuthority, but Samsung was involved. Most of us were satisfied with the powerbuy. Some of us did have problems with the set, some of the lamps burned out in the first few months (supposedly last 8000 hours). The lamps were replaced with no cost to us, however, they had a shortage of lamps (which were and still are manufactured by Toshiba, a competitor). Some of us had to wait two/three weeks to get the replacements. Samsung did let us upgrade the set with no charge, except a $200 charge by local service techs to come to your house, by replacing the main circuit board that provides many requested functions by the AVSForum members, such as discrete remote codes, and improved picture quality. This essentially upgraded the set to HLN series. The president of TVAuthority was a great help for us working with Samsung, and our forum Moderator David Bott was great at helping us working with Samsung and TVAuthority. I don't know if David Bott would want to do another powerbuy with the efforts he had to provide. And, with the market demand for the DLP sets from Samsung, I am not sure Samsung would do it neither. Let me know if you have any questions.

PS

Originally posted by WTEV-JD
CBS sends 5.1 audio as well as stereo audio to us at the studios here in town. Coming this fall FOX will do the same. Our encoding equipment does not gracefully switch between 5.1 and stereo, so switching from the HD feed to SD programming would be a disaster. In order to take advantage of the 5.1 feeds from Fox and CBS we would have to convert our SD audio to 5.1 and that is an expense that we are not prepared to bear right now. As the number of viewers grow, it will make more and more sense to invest in more/better digital equipment at the station here in town. I know its not a popular answer, but thats our situation right now.

Jerry

I thought Fox's new equipment didn't require the local to convert audio. You just patch the a/v into the fox hardware and it broadcasts all HD 5.1 from Fox, and any SD and upconverted from the local when its called to.

This is also supposed to be preventing double bug issues.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3708746&highlight=jax#post3708746

according to FoxEng, the signal is passed through, not touched in anyway by the station.
Could you clarify on this with regards to local Fox broadcasting?

- Jack

Originally posted by jandar
I thought Fox's new equipment didn't require the local to convert audio. You just patch the a/v into the fox hardware and it broadcasts all HD 5.1 from Fox, and any SD and upconverted from the local when its called to.

This is also supposed to be preventing double bug issues.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3708746&highlight=jax#post3708746

according to FoxEng, the signal is passed through, not touched in anyway by the station.
Could you clarify on this with regards to local Fox broadcasting?

- Jack


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by WTEV-JD
CBS sends 5.1 audio as well as stereo audio to us at the studios here in town. Coming this fall FOX will do the same. Our encoding equipment does not gracefully switch between 5.1 and stereo, so switching from the HD feed to SD programming would be a disaster. In order to take advantage of the 5.1 feeds from Fox and CBS we would have to convert our SD audio to 5.1 and that is an expense that we are not prepared to bear right now. As the number of viewers grow, it will make more and more sense to invest in more/better digital equipment at the station here in town. I know its not a popular answer, but thats our situation right now.

Jerry
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Jack, from what Jerry said, he can pass the 5.1 to us, however, because they can't switch easily (and I don't know what "disaster" he is talking about) between 5.1 and stereo, they have decided to just transmit stereo until they can convert all their stereo (SD programs) to 5.1.

Jerry, is it too technical to explain to us the process of switching between 5.1 and stereo? How difficult is it to convert stereo to 5.1? It seems to me that our receivers (some of these are down right cheap) are converting your stero signal to simulated 5.1 to our speakers via Dolby Pro-logic.

PS

I think some of you may fail to understand that the local station is not just a relay point for the networks. If it were, then WAWS could indeed simply pass on the network feed. The fact that the local station must take the Dolby E from the network and convert it to Dolby Digital is in itself a task that requires additional equipment. If you are so interested in how it is done, you can get all the technical details on the Dolby website. They have several documents up there that can get as technical as you want.

Simply put, the networks send Dolby E. Your receivers do not decode Dolby E. They decode Dolby Digital. The local station decodes the Dolby E for you and builds out the complete package of audio that your consumers can receive which would be both Dolby DD5.1 and DD2.0 DPL. For HDTV there is no need for analog stereo PCM or MTS audio like the analog stations send but it is also included. This may sound confusing but backward compatibility is necessary to prevent "no sound" on some receivers.

I think you misunderstood Jerry. Unless he has some new equipment I have not heard of, he cannot "pass" DD5.1 to us from the networks without the proper chain of hardware at the station. This is the hardware that he says the station has not yet budgeted for.


In case you don't wish top spend the time reading the Dolby site, here is a very brief primer on the process from network to local transmitter-

Dolby E from the network. This is decoded to base band audio and fed to a mixer board. Here the audio is mixed with house station audio feeds, mono and stereo, and even local 5.1 as necessary and available. This is a special board that can mix all the channels to the people 5.1 output. The board's output is then fed to a DD 5.1 encoder that produces the type of signal DD5.1 and DD2.0 DPL that your receiver can recognize. This is then sent and "MUXed" with the network Video or house video HDTV or ATSC SD video to an encoder where the composite video - audio is built out for transmission. The final Dolby encoder is also required to build out the "Meta Data" that your receiver needs to know if the audio is DD2.0 only, DD5.1, DD3/2, and a whole host of flavors that are permitted in the ATSC and Dolby spec.


Yes, it is complicated compared to a stereo audio feed on the NTSC station. And you should respect that the main reason for this complication is so the station can send audio that will be recognized by any audio receiver, you may choose to add to your ATSC HDTV receiver. That would be an old fashion analog non-Dolby amplifier, a DD2.0 only, or a DD5.1 receiver. All consumer DD7.1 is backward compatible with DD5.1 so the station doesn't need to worry about making a special budget for DD7.1.

I have not figured the pricing for the switch over to DD5.1 but based on just the hardware boxes from Dolby, I'd say a budget of $50,000 is appropriate which includes engineering and installation costs. Then Jerry would need 2 of everything for both channels/networks.
Now go and inquire how much a 30 second spot costs at WTEV or WAWS and do the math. How many commercials does the station need to sell just to buy the Dolby hardware? Not a pretty future, IMO.

Bigger markets have it better because they can charge more for the commercials. Their ROI is faster. Unfortunately, the Dolby hardware is the same price to a station in Jacksonville as it is to a station in NYC.

Originally posted by Don Landis
I think some of you may fail to understand that the local station is not just a relay point for the networks. If it were, then WAWS could indeed simply pass on the network feed. The fact that the local station must take the Dolby E from the network and convert it to Dolby Digital is in itself a task that requires additional equipment. If you are so interested in how it is done, you can get all the technical details on the Dolby website. They have several documents up there that can get as technical as you want.

Simply put, the networks send Dolby E. Your receivers do not decode Dolby E. They decode Dolby Digital. The local station decodes the Dolby E for you and builds out the complete package of audio that your consumers can receive which would be both Dolby DD5.1 and DD2.0 DPL. For HDTV there is no need for analog stereo PCM or MTS audio like the analog stations send but it is also included. This may sound confusing but backward compatibility is necessary to prevent "no sound" on some receivers.

I think you misunderstood Jerry. Unless he has some new equipment I have not heard of, he cannot "pass" DD5.1 to us from the networks without the proper chain of hardware at the station. This is the hardware that he says the station has not yet budgeted for.


In case you don't wish top spend the time reading the Dolby site, here is a very brief primer on the process from network to local transmitter-

Dolby E from the network. This is decoded to base band audio and fed to a mixer board. Here the audio is mixed with house station audio feeds, mono and stereo, and even local 5.1 as necessary and available. This is a special board that can mix all the channels to the people 5.1 output. The board's output is then fed to a DD 5.1 encoder that produces the type of signal DD5.1 and DD2.0 DPL that your receiver can recognize. This is then sent and "MUXed" with the network Video or house video HDTV or ATSC SD video to an encoder where the composite video - audio is built out for transmission. The final Dolby encoder is also required to build out the "Meta Data" that your receiver needs to know if the audio is DD2.0 only, DD5.1, DD3/2, and a whole host of flavors that are permitted in the ATSC and Dolby spec.


Yes, it is complicated compared to a stereo audio feed on the NTSC station. And you should respect that the main reason for this complication is so the station can send audio that will be recognized by any audio receiver, you may choose to add to your ATSC HDTV receiver. That would be an old fashion analog non-Dolby amplifier, a DD2.0 only, or a DD5.1 receiver. All consumer DD7.1 is backward compatible with DD5.1 so the station doesn't need to worry about making a special budget for DD7.1.

I have not figured the pricing for the switch over to DD5.1 but based on just the hardware boxes from Dolby, I'd say a budget of $50,000 is appropriate which includes engineering and installation costs. Then Jerry would need 2 of everything for both channels/networks.
Now go and inquire how much a 30 second spot costs at WTEV or WAWS and do the math. How many commercials does the station need to sell just to buy the Dolby hardware? Not a pretty future, IMO.

Bigger markets have it better because they can charge more for the commercials. Their ROI is faster. Unfortunately, the Dolby hardware is the same price to a station in Jacksonville as it is to a station in NYC.

But, Don as Jandar posted, the new equipment that Fox Corporate is having installed at the affils allow for Dolby Digital to be sent to the station without the station requiring any equipment. This is what a couple of stations engineers over in the programming forum have mentioned. The according the two engineers who were working with the company installing the Fox equipment, the installs for Florida began in late March. I will ask Foxeng or Spwace if Fox will be sending Dolby E. If that is the case then our affil would need the decoding equipment.

Originally posted by AFH
But, Don as Jandar posted, the new equipment that Fox Corporate is having installed at the affils allow for Dolby Digital to be sent to the station without the station requiring any equipment. This is what a couple of stations engineers over in the programming forum have mentioned. The according the two engineers who were working with the company installing the Fox equipment, the installs for Florida began in late March. I will ask Foxeng or Spwace if Fox will be sending Dolby E. If that is the case then our affil would need the decoding equipment.

This is what I am referring to:

Since the splicer takes out the local encoder bits and splices in the network bits, there is no reason for the local station to ever have to interact with the actual stream coming in. Because of this, it doesn't matter if a station has 5.1 equipment or not. Since the data stream comes straight out of the receiver and straight into the transmitter, network controls any 5.1 and network has said they will do 5.1 every chance they get. That is to be the norm for network programming.

Hello all,
I have a Sony HD300 receiver, which has been plagued by audio dropouts and pixelixzation on OTA broadcasts. I just got a firmware upgrade through Direct TV, and I'm still having problems getting a consistent strong signal. I have an amplified Radio shack antenna in the attic pointing south, and was conmfirmed as correct by a professional installer. My signal strength is inconsistent, and I have a hard time enjoying any OTA programs. ABC is the worst culprit, almost never a good signal. I live on the westside near Chaffee and Old Plank Rd. I need some advice. My dedicated theater is complete but I can't get my wife in it for OTA programs. She'd rather watch it on the tiny tv with no audio video problems. Do I need to move the antenna outside? Is there a better antenna or something I can do. I can get a strong signal on all channels, but not on the same day and it is sporadic, so I was thinking that the weak signals may be coming from the stations. please help, and thanks in advance for your response, Pete.

Originally posted by pete6737
Hello all,
I have a Sony HD300 receiver, which has been plagued by audio dropouts and pixelixzation on OTA broadcasts. I just got a firmware upgrade through Direct TV, and I'm still having problems getting a consistent strong signal. I have an amplified Radio shack antenna in the attic pointing south, and was conmfirmed as correct by a professional installer. My signal strength is inconsistent, and I have a hard time enjoying any OTA programs. ABC is the worst culprit, almost never a good signal. I live on the westside near Chaffee and Old Plank Rd. I need some advice. My dedicated theater is complete but I can't get my wife in it for OTA programs. She'd rather watch it on the tiny tv with no audio video problems. Do I need to move the antenna outside? Is there a better antenna or something I can do. I can get a strong signal on all channels, but not on the same day and it is sporadic, so I was thinking that the weak signals may be coming from the stations. please help, and thanks in advance for your response, Pete.

There have been a couple of individuals on the board who have antenna in their attics. The problem is that they to have experienced some of the problems that you have. I have my antenna outside and I can rec all of the stations. I also live on the Westside near 295 and 103rd. The stations have strong signals so don't isn't your problem. You may try mounting the antenna differently, which is what some have done.

You said your antenna is pointing South. Hopefully that is South-East and maybe more East than South. I would try without the amplifier, can you turn it off? Can you get a good analog signal with this antenna pointed just as you have it now?

"But, Don as Jandar posted, the new equipment that Fox Corporate is having installed at the affils ...

OK, so this means that FOX network is supplying the equipment to all affiliates? This is different than FOX sending a new form of DD5.1 that requires no decoding or encoding. I'll do some reading around the block on this to see what's up. Funny, Jerry didn't seem to know about it either.

I still don't see how any station can pass DD without any dolby digital decoding or encoding equipment unless they are simply acting as a relay point for network direct to home. Like the satellites do.

Dr. Jax and AFH, thanks for the replies. My antenna is pointing south and a little east. I used the direction as instructed on a website(antennaweb?) I think I could try to go further east to see if I can get a stronger signal. I tried without the amplifier thingy when I set it up intially, per a sound advice installer and I got nothing. plugging in the amplifier got a signal on every station, but a good part of the time I can't watch a program I want because of a interittent weak signal. I'm going to get into the attic and play around with it tonight. Are the towers at the same place as the station building?. Channel 12 and 25's building is tecnically due east of me. If that's the case, need to rotate 90 degrees east. I don't know where the other stations are located. I'll work on it tonight and get back with you, thanks, Pete

The equipment as I understand it would require us to either switch the audio back and forth from stereo to 5.1 which takes about 30-45 seconds for the encoder to re lock or to buy the 5.1 equipment for non-Fox programming. . It appears you guys are much more knowledgeable than I am about it, I'm only the chief engineer of the local station. I try to provide you with the info I have and use what little expertise I have to help your reception of our signals. I'm certainly not here to debate. I've not seen the equipment, but only read releases about it. When it arrives, we'll incorporate it into our plant, but not at the expense of non-Fox programming.

Jerry

This is how FOX (from the network) will handle the audio for the HD feed, using Splicer.

We will always transmit the audio as 5.1 Dolby
Digital (AC-3). Whether the show is produced in
5.1, surround or stereo, we will deliver a properly
formatted AC-3 stream with appropriate meta-data
to ensure two channel receivers properly
decode the 5.1. There will also be a second audio
stream for SAP or descriptive audio.

My SIR-T165 (OTA only) does not map digital channels 10 and 13 to 25-1 and 12-1 respectively. Is this caused by incorrect PSIP ? If so do I need to contact the stations for correction ?

My other receiver SIR-TS360, which has Directv service, maps all OTA digital stations correctly

Taichinanda-

They are not sending that data over their DT channel. You are not alone with this. I have been wanting to ask Bill Schneider about this. It would make things nicer for me too on my 921 in that it would make all channels work the same on that receiver.

Jerry and other FOX DD enthusiasts-

Here is what I found out- Fox plans to deliver a box, called splicer to it's affiliates and assist in the installation and training, beginning March 2004. Each station will be contacted for the installation.

The splicer is a system that does indeed supply Dolby Digital 5.1 and all meta data, stereo compatible, ready to air audio from the network. The splicer is designed to accomodate local broadcaster station needs such as a built in logo inserter, PSIP and clock data. It eliminates the need to decode Dolby E to baseband, the traditional Dolby broadcast process. It will output the ready to air signal without the purchase requirements of an encoder. This eliminates a considerable amount of hardware.

An excellent summary and primer for station engineers is at:

http://www.satelliteanalysis.com/splicer.htm


On the surface, this looks like a good way for FOX to raise the bar on their network without taxing the small local affiliates' limited cash. I can think of a few disadvantages to this approach but not anything that would impact the viewers. I believe the station may find this process limiting their flexibility but, only if the local station is in the habit of doing inserts to a network feed where a remix of the sound is necessary. From what I see, this is not possible while the Dolby E-decoded to baseband has complete studio mix flexibility. In otherwords, the local station will deliver the network feed as is, save for the logo insert. With cost savings, comes certain restrictions.

What do you think, Jerry? Good thing or bad?

Oops! I see you already answered that... Bad thing if it takes 30-45 seconds for your existing equipment to swtch between the splicer and house feed. I wonder if Thomson or Fox has addressed that. Back to more reading!

Thanks Don for the excellent post and link.

Originally posted by Don Landis
Oops! I see you already answered that... Bad thing if it takes 30-45 seconds for your existing equipment to swtch between the splicer and house feed. I wonder if Thomson or Fox has addressed that. Back to more reading!

I have talked to three different engineers who have the splicer installed (I am still waiting on mine) and they say the switch between the splicer and local is seamless and unless you know what you are looking for, you will never know it.

There does appear to be some issue of a pop or click on SOME receivers when the splicer is inserted or removed if the station is sending surround in the AC-3 stream instead of 5.1 in the AC-3 stream, but other than that, they say it there is no relocking issue. How bad this pop or click is, I don't know, but it can't be any worse than what I am hearing now when we do a straight cut in the AES audio stream and that is annoying, but not detrimental.

FOXENG,
THanks for stopping in and giving us some info from the inside.
Jamie

Originally posted by jamiecrane
FOXENG,
THanks for stopping in and giving us some info from the inside.
Jamie

No sweat. I will occasionally check in on the FL threads just to see what people are saying. (it has been a while since I looked at this one, so I thought I would stick my nose in! ;))

Went on vacation in your fair city 2 years ago and the wife and I LOVED it there. (She has relatives who live there.) We are looking forward to go back again someday soon!

Watched a bit of Helter Skelter on 47-1 HD tonight and the sound was a bit scratchy.. anyone else have this issue?

Yes, I had to switch to the NY CBS Feed from Direct. No issues on that one. Movie was a disappointment though, thought it would be a little better, the guy who played charlie just drove me nuts!
Jamie

Thanks Don, Ken H, foxeng, and jerry.

That pretty much cleared everything up Im sure for a lot of us.

-
Jack

Originally posted by pete6737
Dr. Jax and AFH, thanks for the replies. My antenna is pointing south and a little east. I used the direction as instructed on a website(antennaweb?)

From where you are, the DT antennas are almost E of you. All of them are at Southside Blvd and Touchton Rd. At antennaweb, click to only show the digital channels.

Jamie, how are you able to get the DirecTV CBS feed, did you get a waiver or something?

I leave in Georgia, and Kingsland/ST Marys is actually serviced by Brantely Telephone and is considered a "Rural Market". Basically in the days when Dtv started, they didn't feel the need or the desire to service smaller communities so they sub-contracted out service to these smaller towns to the local telephone companies. We call them for activation and service and also recieve our bills from them. I never deal with direct tv at all. My parents also have "rural" service in North East Missouri, so it is somewhat common in the smaller communities nation wide. Now not dealing with DTV is nice, but it does have its drawbacks too, we do not get all the deals offered by DTV (ie the HD RCVR for cheapo) and can not access our accounts via the website, but we do pay the same rates (at least here,I have heard some places need to pay service charges) I do not have to pay to change programs, I receive Jax locals and the east and west feeds for CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX along with the East and West HD feed of CBS and hopefully FOX this fall. Overall it is a good deal, but my bill with 3 rcvrs and HBO/SHO comes close to 90 dollars a month, but when football season is here it is great since I can get games from up to 3 areas for each station.
Now not all rurals can rcv distant locals, but here Brantley does it automaticly for us. Sorry for the long winded explanation.
Jamie
PS
We are not required to connect via phone lines so I guess if someone had a PO Box they could switch service to Brantley and just tell them they lived here to rcv the distant feeds.

Is anyone having problems with NBC 12-1 breaking-up? I was trying to watch the opening of L&O SVU and the picture kept breaking up.

I noticed it to Antonio

For the last 10 days WTLV-DT has been very weak signal strength, especially when compared to channel 10-1. Don't know why.

Other local channel changes-
My Clear Channel station channels are no longer remapping as of Tuesday. They now come in as 19-2 and 32-1 on all my receivers.
Jerry- You must be tinkering with something?

This has also resulted in channel 32-1 not being visible on my 921 but that happened after a new software update and I suspect that is a bug in the 921. Channel 32-1 IS still up and doing fine on my other receivers, it is just not remapping anymore.

Originally posted by Gator99
I noticed it to Antonio

Thanks.

Originally posted by Don Landis
For the last 10 days WTLV-DT has been very weak signal strength, especially when compared to channel 10-1. Don't know why.

Other local channel changes-
My Clear Channel station channels are no longer remapping as of Tuesday. They now come in as 19-2 and 32-1 on all my receivers.
Jerry- You must be tinkering with something?

This has also resulted in channel 32-1 not being visible on my 921 but that happened after a new software update and I suspect that is a bug in the 921. Channel 32-1 IS still up and doing fine on my other receivers, it is just not remapping anymore.

I haven't checked my signal, but I moved my antenna using the rotar and 10-1 was still not coming in, so the weak signal seems correct. As you mentioned, it is hard to figure out why they would all of a sudden have a weak signal. Has to be some type of equip problem.

My Clear Channel stations have been at 19-2 and 32-1 since Jan.

"My Clear Channel stations have been at 19-2 and 32-1 since Jan."

That's interesting. I have had to reload, manually, the local channels several times in the 921 and until last week the 19-2 was remapped to 47-1. I hope Jerry can offer some insight as to why his station is now acting like WTLV/WJXX as far as mapping is concerned.

I just signed up for VOOM and their system offers a locals guide which as of yesterday was really screwed up with 47-1 and 47-2 being offered according to them. There were also some other errors such as WJXX 25-1 and 25-2 with alternate programing being offered on the -2. I have no idea where they get this info.

I've said it before and will say it again, until the FCC steps in and goes back to regulated local broadcasting, we will see all sorts of inconsistencies in the Digital broadcasts. The reason is simple, it isn't regulated and thus is a volunteer effort to do what they want. It is much like Ham radio in local broadcast anymore; except for a few remaining regulations we have no standards. :(

Originally posted by jmoran
I am having Voom sat. service installed next week and wondering what other peoples experience is w/ it in jax. Also is the standard attena that they supply with it ok?

Wonder how your install went. I, too, am having VOOM added. It seemed like a good deal to do before the end of the month when the rates for install go up. I will be renting the system and plan to keep service for HD channels as long as those channels are not yet offered by my regulars, D* and E*. Voom's install company is to be here on the 28th. I plan to have them use my existing antennas for the install so the installer should get a break as all the wire connections will be ready to connect in the equipment cabinet.

I also order VOOM as of yesterday. I have been wanting to for a while, but I finally bit the bullet so to speak to beat the install costs. Install wont happen until the 3rd though, I will let everyone know how it goes when I it is over.

"Great minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people."

Great minds make their ideas happen.
Creative minds discuss ideas.
Average minds discuss events.
Small minds discuss people.

:)

You may just be correct! :)

Jaime- You may be getting a call from the installer. They just called me to cancel the install appointment because VOOM has no equipment left. Backordered indefinitly. I called Voom to confirm but they did say it may only be 1-3 weeks, they hope. They would not reschedule until equipment arrives for my order. The good news is since we signed up before the end of May, the rates are locked in until end of December. June will see a big jump in their rates. 25%.

DON-
I just saw a link on another forum (satguys maybe) that showed an SEC filing for them that said they have 8xxx paying customers and like 3400 waiting for installs to be complete.
I will let you know if I hear anything from the installer on my end. This is really going to bum me out if I don't get it until this summer.
My installer by the way is chris middleburg from CAM installs (per the email I recieved from installation inc).
By the way when was your orginal date for install? Mine was the 3 of June.

The sound is cutting in and out on CSI tonight (Thursday, 20 May). Bummer.

Skip

I was scheduled for AM of May 27, by Emerald Coast Communications here in Jacksonville. I saw that SEC link as well. The VOOM CSR said their response exploded in the last month and depleted inventory. That's what happens when you switch from over priced hardware to "giving it away for a token rental fee. That even caused me to change my plans for VOOM which I originally said I would hold until next year. If you like HDTV, it's a no brainer!

Skip- I'll check back later. I recorded it on the 921.

Originally posted by MrGibbage
The sound is cutting in and out on CSI tonight (Thursday, 20 May). Bummer.

Skip

I had the same problem with CBS last night..

Jerry, what is happening with the sound? Also, since we remapped 47-1 to 19-1, the time signal is 59 minutes ahead of the EDST. Please check, thanks.

PS

Last evening (Friday May 21) I watched several CBS programs and the problem seems to be at the network. I will send a note to Bob Ross today to see if he has any info on what's going on.

DON
Any further word from your installer about your VOOM install? My installer has yet to contact me one way or the other, wonder how long they will wait before they call?
Jamie

No word and I wasn't expecting any, yet. It was suggested by VOOM I call back each week on Thursday to see what the current ETA is. It is possible that your Installer is just waiting to see if your hardware will arrive just in time for your scheduled install. What I would do is call them if you need to make "off work" notice and don't want to miss a work day. If that is not a problem, then I wouldn't bother unless you just want to know current status. My installer said they were just following the newest procedure from VOOM and were calling everyone to cancel until named equipment has arrived. VOOM CSR confirmed this new procedure.
What I suspect is once "my" equipment arrives, so will many others' and then the Installer will have a backlog. :(

Meanwhile, today, DishNetwork has really screwed up my account and deactivated my receivers. They tried to correct it this evening 7 times but the latest fix has it where, I'm getting sound on the correct channel but picture from another, PLUS the smart card unauthorized message keeps flashing. Just got off the phone with them again and they now say their entire computer system is down on ALL call centers. In otherwords, they can't fix it!
Because of this, I got to watch WJCT HDTV and do they run the same show every day all day? Everytime I tune in All I see is this reality show about a group of communists (not political, just people who live in a commune) trying to make believe they are in the 17th century. Otherwise, the PQ was superb! But, I want to see something besides this same show everytiome I tune in WJCT. What is with all these reality TV shows? They're on every network anymore. Blame MTV for this!

Sorry for the rant, I'm just pixxed off at DishNetwork for being so incompetant.

Originally posted by Don Landis
No word and I wasn't expecting any, yet. It was suggested by VOOM I call back each week on Thursday to see what the current ETA is. It is possible that your Installer is just waiting to see if your hardware will arrive just in time for your scheduled install. What I would do is call them if you need to make "off work" notice and don't want to miss a work day. If that is not a problem, then I wouldn't bother unless you just want to know current status. My installer said they were just following the newest procedure from VOOM and were calling everyone to cancel until named equipment has arrived. VOOM CSR confirmed this new procedure.
What I suspect is once "my" equipment arrives, so will many others' and then the Installer will have a backlog. :(

Meanwhile, today, DishNetwork has really screwed up my account and deactivated my receivers. They tried to correct it this evening 7 times but the latest fix has it where, I'm getting sound on the correct channel but picture from another, PLUS the smart card unauthorized message keeps flashing. Just got off the phone with them again and they now say their entire computer system is down on ALL call centers. In otherwords, they can't fix it!
Because of this, I got to watch WJCT HDTV and do they run the same show every day all day? Everytime I tune in All I see is this reality show about a group of communists (not political, just people who live in a commune) trying to make believe they are in the 17th century. Otherwise, the PQ was superb! But, I want to see something besides this same show everytiome I tune in WJCT. What is with all these reality TV shows? They're on every network anymore. Blame MTV for this!

Sorry for the rant, I'm just pixxed off at DishNetwork for being so incompetant.

Yes, it does seem that everytime I turn to WJCT-DT that reality show about Colonials is always on. It seems like it has been on everyday for the past week.

Jamie-

Called and no change, no install date. I asked to be put on a waiting list to be called if someone cancels. They did that and called me about 2 hours later and asked if I wanted the install this Saturday in place of someone who just cancelled. Let's see if they show up now.

Great news! Let me know how it goes and what your impressions are with the PQ and content.

Jaime-

The installer called about an hour before is schedukled arrival time, Saturday for directions. He arrived right on time. I gave him a quick tour of the place and showed him the existing antennas. I suggested he start with the receiver and test my antennas for good signal to save him time. He agreed and in 30 minutes we had VOOM working. The VOOM CSR had a few problems with getting the receiver activated but after 2 phone calls and a technician, the installer learned that the receiver takes awhile for it to activate all the channels. The OTA channels being the slowest. In addition, the OTA channel guide is inaccurate and the installer was having trouble tuning in channels that I explained to him don't exist but were listed in the guide, such as channel 25-2. VOOM remaps all channels regardless of PSIP data. But, WJXX never did broadcast 25-2 or 10-2 that I can recall so I don't know where that is coming from. The guide also lists channel 12-2 and shows programming for 25. Several years ago channel 12 did that but hasn't for some time.

PQ is mixed right now. I did a comparison of Disc HD from my 921 using DVI and the VOOM using DVI, same program, flipping back and forth and the signal seemed identical. However there were lots of VOOM movies that really seemed soft. Then I saw on a single channel a very soft Western movie followed by the next movie that was very sharp. So, I'd bet the lack of PQ often reported on VOOM is more related to source programming than increased compression vs. E* or D*.

The installer was particularly impressed with my signal strength which has been running 96-99 now. At first it was 94 but I tweaked the dish just a bit since it hadn't been adjusted in 2 years. Seems he usually gets 70-80 around Jacksonville and has had many complaints about the signal dropping out. Voom normally suplies 18" round dishes while my 61.5 is a 28" dish. Considerably more gain. So in case you have signal problems you may want to go to a bigger dish.
The installer was here no more than 45 minutes.

Good luck with yours.

Don,
thanks for the info, we shall see how it goes for me, it is scheduled for the 3rd. I am having 2 rcvrs installed and he is going to have to run cable since I am using every last bit that I have for my OTA and 3 Dtv rcvrs. Looking forward to having some additional HD!
Jamie

I cannot receive channels 10 and 13 anymore, since Tues night. Anyone else ? Not sure if it's network error or my receivers' .

These digital chanels (ABC, NBC) OTA have been basically a "no signal"
since sometime Tuesday.
At first I thought it may be a weather or equipment issue but I get 4 & 47 at 100%
and Fox & WB & PBS are still there.

Hd_Hobbit

________

I will use the power of the one ring to get HDTV

Originally posted by taichinanda
I cannot receive channels 10 and 13 anymore, since Tues night. Anyone else ? Not sure if it's network error or my receivers' . ...and HD_Hobbit...

I'm using a Directv HD-Tivo, which is less sensitive than my previous HD receiver for OTA, but I'm picking up all local channels quite well with an antenna in my attic. I'm getting all the locals, with no issues. Anyone else?

Q?> How are you receiving your channels? Cable?

I'm perplexed.

--Bill

I'm using HD Tivo as well and I'm only 9 miles from the antenna farm.
The signal strength of channels 10 and 13 is 0 since Tues.

... and my antenna is indoor Megawave. They're probably broadcasting at low power level.

Last night around 10:00pm I wasn't getting anything on 17-1(WB), 7-1(PBS) and 30-1(Fox). All of the other hd stations were coming in. This morning I checked and everything was coming in fine. Something could have happened at the antenna last night.

Last night I could not rcv NBC or ABC OTA digital. All other stations were normal. NBC was reading a 9 on SS, so it may be they reduced power for some reason.
Jamie

Not getting 12-1 at all in ST. Augustine the last 2 days.I have never had any problems before.

Just thought I should chime in from Doctor's Lake -- All channels coming in fine (except WB - which I have never received??)

Jeff,
Can you check your signal strength for 10 and 13 ? and can you tell if they are weaker than before ?

Thanks.

10-4 - as soon as I get home

The signal output from 25-1 and 12-1 must be super low.I tried every thing to bring in the hockey HD game on 25-1 last night. Both the digital 12-1 and 25-1 are not reaching St.Augustine again today.I tried calling engineering at the station but no one answers,just their recording.At this point the nba HD finals may not be seen in HD.Does any one have any suggestions?Other digital stations come in fine.

I use a Rat Shack 190 external antenna mounted on a 20' mast.
Have a general in line amp & FM trap

Use a MyHdPC2 card that is quite sensitive, I have been known to get the Gainseville PBS-HD WUFT (36-1) every so often from the oldest city.

Currently:
I get 4 & 47 at 100%
Fox & PBS at 85% or better
WB is only 75-80% but stable and reliable

As of tuesday I USED to get 10-1 (ABC) & 13-1(NBC) in that range.

Now I get 0 - 11% for both 10-1 & 13-1.

No Tonight Show in HD.

I believe these 2 stations share more than having the same local news station.
So maybe their shared antenna space got damaged or they are at both transmitting
at "flashlight power" for some explicable reason.

I know there is nothing wrong with my equipment.

The MyMDPC lets me pick up the analog ABC & NBC Jax stations but they are obviously poor substitutes for HD.

I sincerely hope this is temporary and that it gets fixed SOON!

Hd_Hobbit

________

I might have to steal the wizards Palantir Glass to watch HD pretty soon.

10 (25-1) ABC and 13 (12-1) NBC are the correct station numbers that are out/off

Still get the numbers conversions mixed up -

I think everyone knows what channel numbers I meant tho.

:p

I stand corrected, ABC/NBC do not come in for me I am getting 25 ss for NBC and 12 ss for ABC - anyone email Ken and Bishop yet?

(ss = signal strength)

Also, last night everything was good, no problem with the signals here, oh well

Well, I just checked my stations and everything is coming in okay. Fox is kind of choppy, sometimes pixelating. It looks as FOX is upconverting to 720p b/c the movie that is on 30-1 is in WS (Widescreen) and it looks better than the other Fox WS movies I have seen.

I haven't had time for much TV this week but haven't noticed any particular problems. And at least at the moment Fox 30 is still in 480p.

But I have not been able to get WB reliably for a couple months. Does anyone get this well. If so, what's the story?

- Tom

Originally posted by trbarry
I haven't had time for much TV this week but haven't noticed any particular problems. And at least at the moment Fox 30 is still in 480p.

But I have not been able to get WB reliably for a couple months. Does anyone get this well. If so, what's the story?

- Tom

I get the WB well but there are some who do not. I have no clue as to the reason for this.

They are back ! I can receive 10 and 13 now, ss around 71 on my HR10-250.
I can receive wb as well with the signal amplifier turned on, ss = 68

Well, darn. I'm only about 6 miles due east of the towers but since about early march I can't get the WB. I guess it's time for more antenna experimentation. Of course until the next Smallville season I don't really care anyway.

- Tom

I have noticed some strange things with channel mapping lately but I think I have it figured out now.

I have been getting ABC, NBC locals on 10-1 and 13-1 on a receiver with mapping shut off. When turned on there is no change to these.
Just got VOOM receiver and I get them on channel 25-1 and 12-1 on the VOOM. In addition, I get channel 13-2 with programming for 25-1 in the guide. That 25-2 receives as "no signal" What I have learned is that VOOM receives it's channel information from a different source and is therefore quite inaccurate. WTLV DT has not had a channel 13-2 for many months but VOOM still lists it in the guide.

In addition, I get 19-2 on 19-2 on a receiver with no mapping set. When I set the mapping I get it on 19-1 and I used to get it on 47-1. VOOM still lists 19-2 on 47-1.

I'm sure there are others but that's all the data I have right now.

POint is that with all the remapping and NO STANDARDS at the stations it is very difficult to know what channel we should be seeing with our receivers all working with different setups and the stations all doing their own thing with no standards. So far the best way to converse is to use station call letters because at this point stations have not begun to fabricate their own call letters.

I have been pushing for regulations on this for some time because no two stations are doing it the same and now I see that DBS services are using their own inconsistent and incorrect data for dbs receivers with OTA channels (Locals)

Dish Network has announced that soon, they will begin supplying guide data for their receivers on locals. I'm sure that will also be a nightmare of mis-information too.


Jaime- Hope your VOOM install went OK. I just got back in town but I did get some time to figure out how to share the 61.5 dish for both VOOM and DishNetwork receivers on the same LNB. :)

One of my tuners stopped getting WB, while another one was fine. I fixed it by manually editing the virtual/actual channels in the config. Can't explain what happened, but it's a clue for those having problems.

On my HiDTV card I usually get the following channels:

RF Logical Name
Channel Channel(s) & Net

42 4-1 WJXT-HD
4-2
38 7-1 WJCT/PBS
7-2
7-3
7-4
13 12-1 WTLV/NBC
34 17-1 WJWB/WB
17-2
10 25-1 WJXX/ABC
32 30-1 WAWS-DT/Fox
41 41 ? / Can't really get
19 47-1 WTEV-DT/CBS
44 59-1 WJEB-DT/? Usually can't get


The logical channels mostly match what is shown on Titan-TV though that may be because I contacted them a couple months ago and they changed a couple based upon what I reported.

- Tom

Does anyone in Jax use a cable ready QAM TV, tuner, or PC card to get Comcast without subscribing to digital cable?

If so, which HD channels do you get?

- Tom

I get the following unencrypted off analog cable:
abc=104-1
nbc=104-2
cbs=102-1
espnhd=102-2, but wrong AR

The hockey game tonight is glitching often. The picture on 25-1 will not stabilize for any length of time.It was fine earlier in the day.

Don... I've also noticed since the begining of time (or at least HD in Jax) that different folks on this forum refer to channels by various numbers; kind of confusing. Defintely best to refer to the network or station call letters.

For the longest time, I've gotten a lineup (Zenith STB) much more similar to what you're getting on VOOM. Actually, I think I get exactly what Tom listed for his HiDTV card, plus 12-2, which shows the same as 25-1, which is WJXX/ABC.

By the way, has WJXT 4-1 ever shown any HD since they went independent?

Ralph

BTW, for those of us following the ongoing flap about sub-channels and HD quality, it appears Jacksonville is unusually blessed for the moment. None of the big fours networks seems to be spending any bits on sub-channels here.

- Tom

Ralph-

I don't believe they have. JIm Biggers is the CE over there. Heck of a great guy as are all the folks at WJXT. They just don't have any HDTV inbounds for now. At one time Mark Cuban was entertaining the idea of offering independent stations HDNet feeds and I alerted 4 to this opportunity but nothing ever became of it. Frankly, since their choice to give up CBS, they have not had the most prosperous times of cash flow. From a programming angle I'll offer this tid-bit- (Opinion) WJXT's position seems to be improving lately as they are now less likely to air programming for free to fill their day. Can't discuss details but when a station begins to ask for money to air what it was doing for free just to fill the broadcast day it is coming out of the cash crunch hole.

I would really really really love to see HDNET on WJXT, even as a sub-channel.

- Tom

I also get from digital Comcast:

103.01 = InHD1
103.02 = InHD2

114.01 = PBS HD (WJCT)


Originally posted by grittree
I get the following unencrypted off analog cable:
abc=104-1
nbc=104-2
cbs=102-1
espnhd=102-2, but wrong AR

I also get from digital Comcast:

103.01 = InHD1
103.02 = InHD2

What I was really trying to figure out above was if I rented a Comcast HD box for $15/month on top of my limited basic subscription they would remove the filters so my Fusion QAM card could record INHD1&2.

At least until the HD-PVR is available I'm not willing to pay the hefty fee to upgrade any higher.

But next week I'll just order one and find out.

- Tom

Tom, I believe all you need to do is pay for the digital service and then you can use your own tuners as desired. You will have to pay for "digital" service, not just analog.

Don -

When I called Comcast last week they said that just for the HD network channels I could only pay an additional $15 to rent the HD STB, even with just my $9 limited basic service. But I was hoping I'd manage to get INHD with that too. I started a thread in the HD Programming Forum where people said that seemed to be true in some areas even including INHD, but that might not continue.

I'll try it and post back after it's installed. But I haven't had digital cable since it got too expensive back in Michigan. I'm not going to order that yet.

- Tom

FYI-
Regarding the audio issues with CBS last month-
A note from Bob Ross, Sr VP of Engineering at CBS confirmed the problem with CBS and it has been fixed. (So we noticed ;) ) No details given.

I haven't been watching much HDTV lately. Now, in the last few nights I wanted to watch the Finals, Game 1 in HDTV - For almost the first half, NO HDTV, then it finally came on close to half-time. Wow. Looked great. Then the channel flip flopped between SD and HDTV during the half, and a few more times in the second half. TERRIBLE. JUST TERRIBLE.

Then tonight, the Stanley Cup Final was in and out of HDTV all night.

HORRIBLE. ABC IS THE MOST HORRIBLE HDTV CHANNEL OUT THERE. THIS SEEMS TO BE A REGULAR PROBLEM WITH OUR LOCAL ABC CHANNEL.

What is the problem?

Is it that hard to get HDTV working?

Are these ridiculous problems happening on a national level or are they due to our local ABC affiliate here in Jax (i'm sure the latter is the case)?

Come on! It doesn't look like much has changed with ABC since I first got HDTV over a year ago!

Receiving HDTV via OTA.

Adam, hockey last night was in HD here except for the first 3 min of the third period.
OTA also.
On the occasions when any show drops out of HD, it seems to always be after a commercial. Can't recall if any go back to HD before another commercial.

Ditto for the non hd in the few minutes of the third period and ALL the post game cup hoisting. I noticed throughout the series that the face offs were blurry then came into focus, and the hi def slow mo, suddenly went blurred too...Anyone else see this? I never saw this on HDNET games. ABC seems to have problems with hi def hockey, after watching this series. But I guess it's better than nothing...Pete

Originally posted by pete6737
Ditto for the non hd in the few minutes of the third period and ALL the post game cup hoisting. I noticed throughout the series that the face offs were blurry then came into focus, and the hi def slow mo, suddenly went blurred too...Anyone else see this? I never saw this on HDNET games. ABC seems to have problems with hi def hockey, after watching this series. But I guess it's better than nothing...Pete

Yeh, I saw this on the NBA game on Sun night and there is a thread over in the programming forum about ABC's hd cameras not being in focus b/c they are not.

Jerry, have you rec'd the splicer and other hd equipment from Fox?

Originally posted by Don Landis
PQ is mixed right now. I did a comparison of Disc HD from my 921 using DVI and the VOOM using DVI, same program, flipping back and forth and the signal seemed identical. However there were lots of VOOM movies that really seemed soft. Then I saw on a single channel a very soft Western movie followed by the next movie that was very sharp. So, I'd bet the lack of PQ often reported on VOOM is more related to source programming than increased compression vs. E* or D*.

Don:

Have you tried the Voom Component outs? For some reason on mine (and alot of other users report the same thing) the color is "washed out" on the DVI output. The resolution seems to be there, but the colors (particularly reds) just don't seem accurate. I actually found V* Discovery looked softer than D* until I switched to Component.

I have not tried the VOOM component yet. We went to DVI immediately as I had the cables run to the back of the rack for the installer. IT would be no problem to test it but I've been traveling quite a bit. Today in Richmond,VA. I get home for a day and then gone again. Next week I should be in town for awhile so I will do some testing then.

FWIW- I can switch rapidly between my DTC-100 (RGBHV) -Dish6000 (COMPONENT), Dish921 (DVI), and VOOM(DVI) all with dispatch and compare each on the same Discovery HD Theater channel. I think this is the only channel I have for HDTV on all those receivers. When I did this I found the image comparison as follows:

1. 921 and VOOM Best*
2. DTC-100*
3. Dish 6000 Worst*

*The only detectible difference were the corners of the picture where there was a very slight color dot crawl (like convergence) on the DTC-100 and the 6000 to a greater extent. Chroma saturation and black level was identical on all 4 receivers.

I use a Dwin TV3 for all viewing.

Unless there was something out of adjustment on your DVI input or on the VOOM receiver you have, I don't understand why it should look washed out. I do understand that some programming content can look washed out. I've seen that lots of times on HDNet MOvies and HBO HD. I just figured it was the source and didn't worry about it. Your monitor may allow DVI contrast and saturation adjustment. Suggest you calibrate your monitor to what pleases you. I would. :)

Don... I hope you're right in your opinion about WJXT; they were always a good station in Jax. I don't recall if the all equipment they were using to pass along the CBS HD feed was theirs or belonged to CBS or some other station. Obviously they have some of that equipment since they are still broadcasting digital 4-1 and 4-2.

I believe the problem with ABC and the finals and hockey Stanley cup has something to do with this (see thread below)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=410278&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

Has anyone been able to get 25-1 and 12-1 in strongly lately? I read back in this thread that these stations have been transmitting weakly compared to what they used to do. Has the strength come back for anyone?

Gator99 - How is the signal strength for you on these two channels? Mine is EXTREMELY weak, causing a lot of breakups. The NBA Finals game last night on ABC was pretty much unwatchable. I went up in the attic and tried to adjust the antenna, but couldn't get anything higher than 35 - 40ish.

These channels used to come in at 100%, and I hadn't moved the antenna or anything....

Suggestions anyone?

Originally posted by acribb
Has anyone been able to get 25-1 and 12-1 in strongly lately? I read back in this thread that these stations have been transmitting weakly compared to what they used to do. Has the strength come back for anyone?

Gator99 - How is the signal strength for you on these two channels? Mine is EXTREMELY weak, causing a lot of breakups. The NBA Finals game last night on ABC was pretty much unwatchable. I went up in the attic and tried to adjust the antenna, but couldn't get anything higher than 35 - 40ish.

These channels used to come in at 100%, and I hadn't moved the antenna or anything....

Suggestions anyone?

I haven't looked at my signal strength for those stations, but they come in without any breakups. Now last night was a diff story. Around the end of the 3rd period of the basketball game last night, the pic began to breakup every 3 to 5 minutes all the way through the end the game. I don;t know if it was the rain that caused it or if it was our local affil problem. Maybe they are messing with the signal.

I am still having issues with the signal strenth on ABC/NBC -- has anyone contacted Bishop or Ken at First Coast News??

I called engineering at ABC 25-1/NBC12-1.They told me the transmitting tower was hit by lightning.The digital signal is being sent at 25%-50% power.This causes the glitching.It will be repaired when the tower crew gets here in about 1 week or two.The blurriness you see is because the have not adjusted or replaced the ABC Harris HD decoder.I hope this answers some of your questions.

I have not had any reception problems with ABC the past few nights (I have not watched NBC lately). I will check the signal strength tonight when I watch the NBA Finals.

PS

Is anyone getting Fox Widescreen 30-1 tonight? I am not getting any signal. Last night I was able to watch a show in widescreen on Fox last night.

Fox was apparently off the air last night. I was reading 0 signal strength.

Originally posted by petergaryr
Fox was apparently off the air last night. I was reading 0 signal strength.

Thanks, I was also getting 0 signal.

Does anyone think to ask- Why all these problems with the digital signal and yet the analog just keeps on "old reliable" never goes down and when they do experience technical difficulties, it is fixed in 10 minutes or less? None of this crap- "we got struck with lightning and when the tower crew arrives in a week or so we will be back up" Sorry, but I don't buy it! Good thing someone called because otherwise I'll bet they didn't know there was a problem.
Cynic hat on!

Thats one thing that is nice about having Comcast HDTV. No need to worry about signal strength.

I sent email to Comcast about Fox and WB programming as well as Discovery (before the AVS Announcement)

The CSR (take it with a grain of salt) said very soon on Discovery (was right)

close on Fox (this I can believe)

nothing on WB.

I just asked about NFLNetwork as well due to the fact that the Jaguars are going to be on the "Hard Knocks" series on NFLNetwork. We'll see what the answer is.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by jandar
[B]Thats one thing that is nice about having Comcast HDTV. No need to worry about signal strength.

Jandar, I also have Comcast digital cable and receive ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS, ESPN and INHD 1and 2 High Definition channels. I was issued the Motorola DCT5100 HDTV STB. It of course has no “signal strength” meter. If it did I’d bet that when tuned to the PBS channel (174 WJCT) it would fluctuate from 0-50 or some number at such a violent frequency that the meter would burn out in 24 hours. PBS-HD is the most inconsistent HD channel that we receive. The pixelation, dropouts of both audio and video during prime time make it totally un-watchable. There have been rare occasions when we watched 2 consecutive hours of beautiful almost technically perfect video and audio HD. Unfortunately, you never know when these are coming. If I were asked to rate the Comcast PBS technical delivery of HD programming in Jacksonville, FL., I would say inconsistent. That is if I were in a good mood. In a bad mood, TERRIBLE.
What has been your experience with PBS-HD on Comcast cable?
:mad:

Ross, I have the same problem with PBS that you have so I assume all of us that have Comcast see the same problems. I agree when they do it correctly its great, but most of the time it is unwatchable. The other thing the program on never matches what the TV guide on the screen says. The shows listed in the paper are on the analog PBS station, but not the digital one.

On a side note has anyone received at 6208 yet? I wonder when they are going to roll them and the 6408 out. Next week would be great.

I went to a Suns Baseball game this past saturday, and I was in a group that had rented one of the skydecks at the park. From the back rail in the skydeck area, I was able to look down onto the top of the Amsterdam Sky Cafe, and guess what....

They've got a huge OTA antenna installed on the center of their roof, and it's pointing Backwards. The UHF elements are pointing towards Georgia. There's a professional installation for you!!

--Bill

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ghjaxman
[B]Ross, I have the same problem with PBS that you have so I assume all of us that have Comcast see the same problems.

Thanks for feedback. I assumed I was not the "Lone Ranger". When I call Comcast to complain, they put me on hold, then come back on the phone stating that it's doing the same at the call in location. Their solution is a $0.56 credit to my bill. Bummer!:mad:

JERRY, are you out there? Have the had the splicer for WAWS-DT installed yet? Due tell, I am dying for info seeing as though all of the other affils are getting there installs completed.

Originally posted by AFH
JERRY, are you out there? Have the had the splicer for WAWS-DT installed yet? Due tell, I am dying for info seeing as though all of the other affils are getting there installs completed.

Jerry, I also would like a status report. If you are too busy, why not appoint a PR person in your office to keep us informed?:confused:

Any news on when Discovery on Comcast will be available in Jax? Channel number? Also, any news on the PVR HDTV comcast box coming out this summer?

I contacted a engineer by the name of Doug over at WAWS and I asked hime when they would have the splicer installed? He informed me that Fox had not sent them the equipment yet, but that he hopes to have it by the end of the summer. I find it weird that markets smaller than ours have already gotten their equipment installed and we have gotten ours yet.

Did you by chance happen to ask about UPN? Does Fox/WAWS have any way to pass thru Enterprise in HD?

- Tom

Originally posted by trbarry
Did you by chance happen to ask about UPN? Does Fox/WAWS have any way to pass thru Enterprise in HD?

- Tom

No I didn't ask about UPN. I don't know of any way for WAWS to pass thru UPN hd signals. Also, the hd recving euip for Fox will be diff than what it is for UPN. So at this point I wouldn't highly doubt it.

It's simple.


[rant=on]
Jax is still backwater country. Combine that with ClearChannel ownership. Means us the end user gets screwed.

(yes, Im born and raised in Jax, so I can complain)

anyway, I plan on bad mouthing Clearchannel and FOX each and every moment I get if they wait until the end of summer for upgrades.

Shame that the station that will air the SuperBowl here in Jacksonville is dragging it's arse in regards to getting HDTV for the same market.

POOEY on Clearchannel and FOX.
[rant=off]

Im waiting on DiscoveryHD as well patiently.

PBS is giving some issues during the day, at night (after 9PM) it is pretty much good to go. The IQ is nice!

Be nice to have WB in HD, since even those with Antennas are hit and miss with that station.

- Jack

Jack and others, as I respect anyone's rants/beefs/complaints about Jacksonville stations/ownership, but all of you might have noticed it sure has been quiet around here (Jerry - Fox/CBS, Smitty - PBS)?? Not to mention NBC/ABC or WB ever chimes in - and they are aware this forum and others exist.

We might want to take a step back and look at this from those guys (Smitty/Jerry others at our local stations)perspectives, the bashing that goes on is something that these guys cannot necasarily help us with and in the past they have been very helpful and their information is something I think we all appreciated - I don't speak for them but I can assume as you berate their companies you are really berating them (some might think they are being touchy, but that is there prerogative)

Deep breath everybody, better things are sure to come here in Jacksonville at least I hope so - considering it is not entirely that bad to begin with.

NOTE: I don't work with any local/national station and I too have complained in the past so I am certainly not above anyone else here, just thought I would point out that our local connections certainly are dwindling.

I haven't seen that many complaints but it is helpful when those at the stations do reply.

Jack, I don't know what kind of day you're having but I hope that it gets better. The Jacksonville area is not backwater, maybe your train of thought needs to evolve to a higher level and remember there are about 20,000 people a year waiting to replace you. People with your attitude will bring any city down and you probably wouldn't be satisfied if you lived in Paris along La Seine in a two bedroom flat eating cavair and drinking Krug Champagne. Don't get it twisted by bad mouthing this metro area just b/c you don't understand something or are unsatisfied with something. And I was born and raised here and I have lived in other areas (Tally and Miami), traveled to other areas and so I bring some perspective to the table that 'jaded' people may not bring. You have it damn good here and it's about time that 'jaded' folks begin to understand and appreciate that. I am gonna rep this city anytime I get a chance and there are others that you don't know of (unless you read various paper, NY Time, ST Pete Times, Folio) that are doing the same thing. Stop being mad at this city and enjoy it b/c your attitude will certainly change.

I know that my rant was ot but I had to go off b/c your statement was down right crazy.

The hd coverage in this market is damn good. I don't know how you are getting your hd, but what I'm getting here does not leave me feeling screwed. In fact it leaves me more satisfied. I feel safe in saying that most of the hd users here don't feel like their getting screwed. Yes you can complain, but I hope you have something legit to complain about instead of complaining for the hell of it.

Yelling at Fox and CC isn't going to do a damn thing. Some markets larger than ours don't even have FOX WS. It will happen when it happens and not before then. PBS ota is fine before and after 9pm and I am getting the WB just fine and will be watching Summerland in hd tonight, so all in all it's all good. If you're having problems you need to complain to Comcrap err Comcast.

Enjoy your hd, life and this city and try to have a better day. Otherwise, go to some other backwater city and complain.

Im not ranting on the guys who actually do the work. Im going off on the purse keepers at those said companies.

My complaints are still valid.

WB has a piss poor signal spread. It basically spreads south, west, east, north, in a clover shaped form. Leaving SW, NW, SE, NE outta luck. ASk anyone who lives SE of the Southside towers. Its damn near impossible to get it OTA.

Clear Channel - I plain out detest. Its ruined radio and now is trying to ruin TV.


Im not concerned with new neighbors, Ive watched houses sell in my neighborhood for 40K more than the owner paid last year. New residents can be a good thing.

Im not mad at the City. We are a hidden gem still. It just that most media companies ignore this market, we still have the backwater stigma associated with us regardless of how good we try to make things.

You would think that FOX would want to make sure that its market in the Superbowl city would be good to go, since they are airing the SB this year.

We are lucky to have the HD that we do, but our HD is still weak. How many 5.1 HD stations do we have?

"I'm Antonio and I do not approve of this message."

Well I sure do, Antonio.

I've lived all over the country, California- Alaska, NY, PA, Texas but I have been living here now for 24 years because it is the best! I still travel to NYC about every 6-8 weeks which is a reminder why I don't live there anymore. Antonio- I have found that most, nearly all, the people I have met who bad mouth this fine city, are those who have lived here all their lives and have never lived anywhere else. So, I forgive them as they know not what they speak!

But, having said that one must admit that the stations around here are all operating under a "me too" philosophy. I knew back during the Olympics that when WTLV did the first HDTV here in Jax that all the other stations would be chomping at the bit to be there too. It didn't take them long and the digital - HDTV era arived here in town. Now, the next phase is when the stations all begin to move toward recognizing their digital channels must make a difference. The difference in that they sell the channel for advertising. They promote the channel on the analog and request and explain why the people need to make the move. Currently they do not acknowledge the HDTV advantage on a regular basis. Then and only then will they make engineering fixes in a timely manner, as they do now with their analog channel. The reason we see so many problems with their digital stations is simply because the people who run the equipment at the stations just don't give the digital and HDTV the same concern, attention, and budget as they do the analog side. Digital to them is just some additional annoyance they have to cope with while they operate the analog channel. All the stations think this way.

We moved here from Michigan over 24 years earlier, and we love it here. We actually hope nobody else in the country find out how good it is here in Jax, so we don't have the big city problem that we are starting to have. As far as HD broadcast, I think we are doing pretty well comparing with many others. We just came back from a visit to my son in Daly City (just south of San Francisco). He can't get HD NBC over the air because he lives on the wrong side of the hill. Anyway, one thing we definitely need is 5.1. Hopefully, local stations will soon find the funds for the equipments to pass the 5.1 audio to us. Jerry has been really good at answering our questions. I don't know if he is on vacation or what. Jerry, I hope you are doing okay!

PS

Agreed, that 5.1 is nice but also comes with some bad as well. Just having 5.1 encoding doesn't mean that the sound was mixed for 5.1. This is the biggest myth floating about today. Very little 5.1 is actually mixed for it. I recall sitting with several forum members and Bob Ross of CBS discussing how to place the sound for the superbowl. When a question was asked about the other CBS programming, the comment was that it was just a simulated 5 ch mix from stereo source. But, we have to have the capability before we even can get the 5.1 on the few channels actually broadcasting it.

I lived in quite a few places and spent better part of two years working out of town 5-6 days a week.

Let me rephrase something:
Jacksonville itself is not a backwater city. Its just a lot of companies still treat us as such. Last to get a lot of things.

We shocked the football world and national media twice by landing the Jags and now the upcoming Superbowl.

The best HDTV channel here is PBS. Nice sound, good signal and they even seem to have fixed the broadcast to actually play whats on the analog at the same time!!!

Try as I might, I never could get WB to come in decently out here with OTA. I know quite a few people are the same. Its frustrating. They are passing a signal, but its not enough to pickup and we have no natural barriers (mountains) like a lot of other areas. Has anyone spoken with a WB engineer?

Without the stations broadcasting HD and 5.1, the programs wont come that way. The availibility needs to be there first for the programmers.

With Comcast, I am happy with the HD package. CBS, PBS, NBC, ABC, InHD1, InHD2, ESPN-HD, Sho-HD, Cinemax-HD, HBOHD, StarzHD. Discovery HD should be on any time. Thats a nice HD lineup.

What I complain about mainly is why don't we hear anything from FOX? It just seems like they don't care at all about HD locally (excluding the engineers, although they seem to be kept in the dark about a lot of things). They don't seem like they are concerned with HDTV at all even though it basically being handed to them by FOX with that splicer technology.