Actually, Fox has been pushing it's "wide screen EDTV for the past several years. The concept for them to go HDTV is new, 2004 stuff, for the network. The splicer technology is a program that is a 9 month upgrade on all affiliates. I understand the goal is to have it all in place everywhere by the Superbowl. When WAWS is scheduled for it's install is something that Jerry will have to divulge if he wants, but considering the upgrade program is now just 2 months into the 9 month plan, what the heck are you so bent all out of shape about? As for not being concerned about HDTV, You obviously don't know Jerry at Clear Channel WTEV/WAWS. He has participated more than any other engineer in Jacksonville in this forum section, gave the group here a tour of the HDTV station's facilities, and has been very sincere with resolving real world issues with our city's HDTV enthusiasts. However, I respect his professionalism to completely ignore derogatory comments from one person's detesting his employer.
If you wish to post claims that a company is ruining TV then you should back it up with hard evidence and not just emotional giberish. If it's just your opinion, maybe you have a personal grudge, then fine but frankly, I don't think anybody here cares. The rest of us are happy that we seem to be doing fine with the progression to HDTV in Jacksonville and are quite thankful that Jerry comes buy and updates us from time to time.

read my post again.

nothing bad against the engineers at WAWS. Clearchannel is the one dragging its arse. Not the engineers. They cannot proceed until money/option is there to begin with.

Things take time and money, this I understand. Ive worked for enough Fortune 500 companies to know this all too well. But Ill go 10 to 1 odds though and say that our local Fox wont get HDTV until well into the Football season. Thats what bugs me.

Are we to be lucky enough to get FoxHDTV in time for the Cowboys on Thanksgiving? What about the primetime shows. Can we laugh when the HD logo comes up then?

Ill lay off the comments on WAWS, but I do request one thing from ANYONE if they know. Timeline on HDTV for WAWS?



BTW, for anyone interested in why OTA WB HDTV is such a crapshoot:
WJWB Antenna Polar Field (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=29378&rotate=0.00&p0=0.710&p10=0.852&p20=0.960&p30=1.000&p40=0.960&p50=0.852&p60=0.710&p70=0.578&p80=0.494&p90=0.467&p100=0.494&p110=0.578&p120=0.710&p130=0.852&p140=0.960&p150=1.000&p160=0.960&p170=0.852&p180=0.710&p190=0.578&p200=0.494&p210=0.467&p220=0.494&p230=0.578&p240=0.710&p250=0.852&p260=0.960&p270=1.000&p280=0.960&p290=0.852&p300=0.710&p310=0.578&p320=0.494&p330=0.467&p340=0.494&p350=0.578&p360=0.710&) Great field huh?

Originally posted by jandar
Ill lay off the comments on WAWS, but I do request one thing from ANYONE if they know. Timeline on HDTV for WAWS?


There seems to be a lot of misinformation going around. We purchased all the equipment necessary to pass-through the Fox 720p signal last year. Its sitting on the shelf waiting for Fox to roll-out HD. We have not received a timetable for the completion here in Jacksonville. We have passed through the CBS HD signal since going on-air with digital 2 years ago. We have the same equipment for WAWS and we'll pass-through the Fox HD when that signal becomes available.

I don't care to get involved in bickering about our signal here. I read the messages here and am interested in your problems as a group. I don't know all the answers, but if you search around enough I'm sure you can find someone who thinks he does.

Jerry

Originally posted by WTEV-JD
There seems to be a lot of misinformation going around. We purchased all the equipment necessary to pass-through the Fox 720p signal last year. Its sitting on the shelf waiting for Fox to roll-out HD. We have not received a timetable for the completion here in Jacksonville. We have passed through the CBS HD signal since going on-air with digital 2 years ago. We have the same equipment for WAWS and we'll pass-through the Fox HD when that signal becomes available.

I don't care to get involved in bickering about our signal here. I read the messages here and am interested in your problems as a group. I don't know all the answers, but if you search around enough I'm sure you can find someone who thinks he does.

Jerry

Thanks for responding Jerry. You answered my previous question.

Originally posted by jandar
read my post again.

nothing bad against the engineers at WAWS. Clearchannel is the one dragging its arse. Not the engineers. They cannot proceed until money/option is there to begin with.

Things take time and money, this I understand. Ive worked for enough Fortune 500 companies to know this all too well. But Ill go 10 to 1 odds though and say that our local Fox wont get HDTV until well into the Football season. Thats what bugs me.

Are we to be lucky enough to get FoxHDTV in time for the Cowboys on Thanksgiving? What about the primetime shows. Can we laugh when the HD logo comes up then?

Ill lay off the comments on WAWS, but I do request one thing from ANYONE if they know. Timeline on HDTV for WAWS?



BTW, for anyone interested in why OTA WB HDTV is such a crapshoot:
WJWB Antenna Polar Field (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=29378&rotate=0.00&p0=0.710&p10=0.852&p20=0.960&p30=1.000&p40=0.960&p50=0.852&p60=0.710&p70=0.578&p80=0.494&p90=0.467&p100=0.494&p110=0.578&p120=0.710&p130=0.852&p140=0.960&p150=1.000&p160=0.960&p170=0.852&p180=0.710&p190=0.578&p200=0.494&p210=0.467&p220=0.494&p230=0.578&p240=0.710&p250=0.852&p260=0.960&p270=1.000&p280=0.960&p290=0.852&p300=0.710&p310=0.578&p320=0.494&p330=0.467&p340=0.494&p350=0.578&p360=0.710&) Great field huh?

Jack, I understand you frustration, but it isn't CC fault that the Fox hd install isn't complete yet. Getting mad at CC isn't going to do anything. If anything, be mad at Fox for having the installers come into Florida and install the equip at the Fox affil in Tampa and not anywhere else in the state.

It seems to me that WAWS is more or less on the Fox HD schedule announced months ago so I'm not sure we have any reason to be upset.

In any event, I like Fox here because they have a nice strong signal I can receive well and they nicely provide the missing UPN (wish it was HD).

I've only been in Jax for a few months but I liike it here. The fly in the ointment for me is still WB, for which I just can't seem to keep reliable reception even though I'm only a few miles east of the tower.

- Tom

Tom, according to the pattern link jandar posted you would, indeed, be in a null and therefore may require additional UHF antenna gain to receive reliably compared to being in a major lobe. I'm due west and in a major lobe and explains why my signal from them is strong and against the peg. WJWB is very solid here. Orange Park would also be in a null but further away.
It's been too many years since I studied this stuff but as I recall the simple end of it, the WJWB patern is probably designed to develop a strong pattern for the coasts north and south as well as westbound toward Lake city. This would minimize the signal into regions such as Orlando but unless an adequate sized antenna is used, receivers in the path would have a weaker signal such as OP. The patern should generate a stronger signal into the St. Augustine and Brunswick, Ga but require bigger outdoor antennas. Due east is a waste since supplying a major lobe for the Atlantic Ocean is not wise. The only other option is pattern squeezing would be a cardioid aimed west and null east. This would make the signal weaker at the Jax beach area and stronger in the OP area but not by much. Antenna gain is not really gain. It is a subtracting of one region while adding to another. To me, the pattern looks right for the areas they want to cover but, I agree with jandar that the patern does compromise OP in the interest of making the west bound signal stronger. My guess is that a decision was made to put the stronger field strength west for a city like Lake City sinve it is 55 miles away which should balance with OP being closer by 25 miles. Yes, the pattern does indicate a smart plan of effective radiated power.
Jandar, since you have the links for those patterns at least for WJWB, it would be a great contribution to build a list of links for all our Jax stations for reference when signal strengths issues surface.

Finally, here's my suggestion: If you can't see the station at all, putting up a bigger antenna may or may not get you reception that is reliable. I'd do some temporary antenna tests before doing anything permanent. If you have sporadic reception, try to modify your antenna design or relocate it, try to go higher in the clear, try to add amplification at the antenna. If you can't/ won't change your antenna then wishing or complaining about the station will hardly get you results, especially if your neighbor in the Jax area is fine with the signal they receive.

_________________________
"There seems to be a lot of misinformation going around. We purchased all the equipment necessary to pass-through the Fox 720p signal last year. Its sitting on the shelf waiting for Fox to roll-out HD. We have not received a timetable for the completion here in Jacksonville. We have passed through the CBS HD signal since going on-air with digital 2 years ago. We have the same equipment for WAWS and we'll pass-through the Fox HD when that signal becomes available.

I don't care to get involved in bickering about our signal here. I read the messages here and am interested in your problems as a group. I don't know all the answers, but if you search around enough I'm sure you can find someone who thinks he does.

Jerry"
Jerry- Thanks for explaining that about FOX. I think we were all under the impression from the press releases that FOX was supplying the Splicer equipment without charge to the stations. We look forward to seeing FOX in 720P and DD5.1 from WAWS when Fox begins to offer it. Actually, I hadn't followed it that closely, but did read the press releases as a result of an earlier discussion here. I am content to wait and when it is ready will be happy to begin watching the NFL games in 720P with DD5.1 this year. Good enough for me! :)

I'm wondering why Comcast doesn't carry the FOX EDTV signal. It's not HD, but it's great compared to SD in 4:3.

Thanks Jerry. You guys have been busting hump and its nice to get you actually involved with things here. Never have been complaining about you at all. Just the companies.

So everything is ready then for Rollout and just waiting on FOX then it seems.

Ill still rip FOX if they drag arse. :) Thats just the way I am, otherwise Im a nice guy.


Don,
The links for signal comes from the FCC site. Ill list a link for each channel's Digital signal spread below:

WJXT DT (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=41583&rotate=0.00&p0=0.751&p10=0.758&p20=0.798&p30=0.805&p40=0.772&p50=0.733&p60=0.711&p70=0.706&p80=0.711&p90=0.733&p100=0.772&p110=0.805&p120=0.798&p130=0.758&p140=0.751&p150=0.826&p160=0.937&p170=0.999&p172=1.000&p180=0.967&p190=0.876&p200=0.817&p210=0.836&p220=0.894&p230=0.941&p240=0.960&p250=0.963&p260=0.960&p270=0.941&p280=0.894&p290=0.836&p300=0.817&p310=0.876&p320=0.967&p328=1.000&p330=0.999&p340=0.937&p350=0.826&p360=0.751&)
WJCT DT (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=44754&rotate=0.00&p0=0.809&p10=0.825&p20=0.850&p30=0.816&p40=0.730&p50=0.672&p52=0.669&p60=0.685&p70=0.738&p80=0.767&p90=0.738&p100=0.685&p106=0.669&p110=0.672&p120=0.730&p130=0.816&p140=0.850&p150=0.825&p160=0.809&p170=0.844&p180=0.906&p190=0.963&p200=0.998&p202=1.000&p210=0.986&p220=0.926&p230=0.854&p240=0.811&p250=0.819&p260=0.835&p270=0.819&p280=0.811&p290=0.854&p300=0.926&p310=0.986&p316=1.000&p320=0.998&p330=0.963&p340=0.906&p350=0.844&p360=0.809&)
WTLV = non directional
WJWB DT (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=29378&rotate=0.00&p0=0.710&p10=0.852&p20=0.960&p30=1.000&p40=0.960&p50=0.852&p60=0.710&p70=0.578&p80=0.494&p90=0.467&p100=0.494&p110=0.578&p120=0.710&p130=0.852&p140=0.960&p150=1.000&p160=0.960&p170=0.852&p180=0.710&p190=0.578&p200=0.494&p210=0.467&p220=0.494&p230=0.578&p240=0.710&p250=0.852&p260=0.960&p270=1.000&p280=0.960&p290=0.852&p300=0.710&p310=0.578&p320=0.494&p330=0.467&p340=0.494&p350=0.578&p360=0.710&)
WJXX = non directional
WAWS DT (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=42562&rotate=0.00&p0=0.961&p10=1.000&p20=0.961&p30=0.917&p40=0.911&p50=0.833&p60=0.652&p70=0.526&p80=0.527&p90=0.519&p100=0.584&p110=0.768&p120=0.895&p130=0.914&p140=0.938&p150=0.993&p160=0.984&p170=0.928&p180=0.914&p190=0.879&p200=0.730&p210=0.557&p220=0.526&p230=0.544&p240=0.533&p250=0.579&p260=0.637&p270=0.608&p280=0.542&p290=0.538&p300=0.537&p310=0.526&p320=0.652&p330=0.833&p340=0.911&p350=0.917&p360=0.961&)
WTEV DT (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=42083&rotate=0.00&p0=0.961&p10=1.000&p20=0.961&p30=0.917&p40=0.911&p50=0.833&p60=0.652&p70=0.526&p80=0.527&p90=0.519&p100=0.584&p110=0.768&p120=0.895&p130=0.914&p140=0.938&p150=0.993&p154=1.000&p160=0.984&p170=0.928&p180=0.914&p190=0.879&p200=0.730&p210=0.557&p220=0.526&p230=0.544&p240=0.533&p250=0.579&p260=0.637&p270=0.608&p280=0.542&p290=0.538&p300=0.537&p310=0.526&p320=0.652&p330=0.833&p340=0.911&p350=0.917&p360=0.961&)
WPXJ = non directional


Also, for anyone interested, WFXU (Live Oak) UPN is non directional with a signal strength of 1000Kw (good luck getting it though)

Jerry, another quick question for you. Any reason why the DT signals for CBS and FOX are directional? Any benefits or was this a FCC decision? It seems to me like only the Southside/Mandarin/Arlington/Beaches/St Johns County area is covered decently. Leaving Westside/ClayCounty/etc kinda SOL.


Grittree: Comcast is going to be adding FOX to the mix very soon from what I hear. WB is another story altogether though, no word at all on that.

- Jack

Jack, I noticed you are in Orange Park, what part, I to am in OP (northside of Doctor's Lake) and I get all the stations in Jax at 100 on my signal strength except for WB, which I have not been able to receive in several months up until the last few days, it now appears to be fluctuating around 50 or so on my signal strenght meter (Hughes E86 clone)

Of course ABC/NBC have been down recently - I guess the reason as someone else posted (Lightning strike) is the cause there.

Also, I thought I read somewhere that those "spreads" were only done for the stations analog signal and not for the digital - I could be wrong but we should double check

Those are the digital signal spread.

here is WJWB analog spread:
WJWB Analog (http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/polarplot?temp=19248&rotate=0.00&p0=0.715&p10=0.820&p20=0.940&p30=1.000&p40=0.940&p50=0.815&p60=0.710&p70=0.680&p80=0.680&p90=0.690&p100=0.680&p110=0.680&p120=0.710&p130=0.810&p140=0.935&p150=1.000&p160=0.940&p170=0.820&p180=0.715&p190=0.680&p200=0.680&p210=0.690&p220=0.685&p230=0.680&p240=0.715&p250=0.810&p260=0.940&p270=1.000&p280=0.940&p290=0.815&p300=0.715&p310=0.680&p320=0.680&p330=0.690&p340=0.680&p350=0.680&p360=0.715&) There is a difference.

- Jack

Cool, thanks for the clarification :)

Jack are you having reception issues with Fox/CBS in Orange park?

I have the comcast HD box. so no signal issues. Before when I had D* and the Samsung T160, I could barely get them, even aligned my antenna properly, etc....



Now comes a real issue, karma has come back to bite me. Wife just called and said the Samsung W RP HDTV has a nice green tint.... luckily Im smart and purchased an extended warranty and even have a stage 1 supply with 150K of warranty.

hmm.........



DOH!


*update on the TV. Bad convergence on the CRTs. It looks like it took a nice power spike. Have to check the supply to make sure it's functioning on.

I look like a bright guy to my wife now for getting that extended warranty thru BJs Wholesale. Not bad for a 49$ fee for an extended year warranty on a Widescreen HDTV.

I feel poor now, had to set the "old" 27" CRT in the living room for a few days.

I'm wanting to have an OTA installed on my home...anyone care to recommend a specific person or company? Appreciate any help you can give. Thanks in advance.

Hi RR,

Welcome to the forum. This is a very friendly and helpful group of people.

I don't have an installer to recommend, but I was able to put a Radio Shack Model 15-2151 antenna in my attic and am able to get all the digital stations down here in Fruit Cove. Others will, I am sure, chime in with their experiences...there are reception issues for certain stations depending upon where exactly you are living.

Hi RR, welcome - as Peter said I really can't recomend an installer either I believe the majority of us installed ourselves -- by the way what side of town do you live on so we can tell you what to expect as far as OTA reception is concerned

Welcom RR, as Peter and Jeff have mentioned, it is hard to recommend and installer but most have done it themselves. I installed my antenna with the help of my father, but it wasn't hard, rotator, ten foot poll and all. Let us know what area in you're in.

Email from Comcast states still no Discovery HD, no time frame right now.

HD DVR is launching in Jax area between mid July and August.

- Jack

Has any noticed that since Sat night, our local PBS affil has not been broadcasting hd content? I thought that PBS wasn't sending any hd material until I checked the programming forum on Sun night and saw that people were watching Soundstage while we were getting regular programming. I also noticed that the guide information for 7-1, 7-2, 7-3 and 7-4 is showing up in my Dtv programming guide. The guide info for 7-1 is the same as the info for the sd version.

I was wondering if because they are having a fundraiser they were suspending HD until it was over. Actually a good opportunity to remind us that if we aren't suscribers to PBS, now would be a good time to thank them with a gift for the HD content they have been providing.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AFH
[B]Has any noticed that since Sat night, our local PBS affil has not been broadcasting hd content? I thought that PBS wasn't sending any hd material until I checked the programming forum on Sun night and saw that people were watching Soundstage while we were getting regular programming.

What People? No Hd on Comcast either. Maybe they are down for maintenance. Maybe they are trying to borrow Fox's(WAWS) splicing system which is on the storage shelf, someone posted.:confused:

Hmm...I didn't think it was a DIY sort of thing, but I'm sure going to look into it now. I'm located on the Westside of Jacksonville--near Crystal Springs/Marietta.

Would it be best to mount the atenna outside on the roof like the Dish or in the attic? Could anyone give me a heads-up as to what I should expect as far as cost and time is concerned? Thanks again.

RowdyReptile:
Antenna mounting isn't a hard thing to do, sometimes it can be dumb luck.
Couple of questions.

1. Have you checked www.antennaweb.org for compass direction yet?
The antenna farm is basically straight east of you, around 100-105 degrees. But check to make sure.

2. At your compass bearing, are you pointing it through your shingles if attic mounted? If so, expect a decent drop in signal strength.

3. If it points towards an eave and not through your shingles, What kind of siding do you have on your house? Is it T111 or Hardyboard?.

You should be able to get decent signal with an attic antenna from that location, most signal spreads are going that way. (see my earlier post about signal spread)

A pole mounted antenna is the best signal gatherer, so long as it is oriented correctly. Take a small TV outside with you, setup your pole mounted antenna and go for the correct compass bearing (remember the correct way to point an antenna, <<<<< --------- TV Transmitter, not the other way).

It takes a little fine tuning. Nothing hard to do at all if you can turn a socket wrench, you can install an antenna.

Expect to spend around 80-130$ on parts from HomeDepot or Lowes, and a few hours to intially setup. After it is setup, you will always want to tweak it.

Id recommend a channel master 3016. That would get you good signal from an attic mount. You are around 15-20 miles from the antennas, so a decent size antenna would work, nothing huge needed. You would also need a couple of diplexers unless you run a new line from the antenna straight to the TV. Do not buy cheap coaxial cable, its worth it to buy at least RG6 at least for signal, RG11 is the better choice, but costs more. Stay away from RG59!!!!



- Update on my HDTV Blowup. My HD is gone, convergence board is blown. The guy that came out tried to test it with coaxial cable from the cable box, and not the component. Makes me feel very safe on this repair........ GRR.......

:)

- Jack

Jack, thanks for all the info.

1) I have checked the antenna website before but haven't lately--going to have to give it another look to check the compass direction.

2) I figured you would have some signal loss by mounting it in the attic. I'm going to look at doing it outside.

3) As for siding on my house--I have an all brick front and then vinyl siding on the back.

I see that I am going to have to do some more research on how to do this myself.

Originally posted by RowdyReptile
Hmm...I didn't think it was a DIY sort of thing, but I'm sure going to look into it now. I'm located on the Westside of Jacksonville--near Crystal Springs/Marietta.

Would it be best to mount the atenna outside on the roof like the Dish or in the attic? Could anyone give me a heads-up as to what I should expect as far as cost and time is concerned? Thanks again.

I live on the WS too near 295 and Wilson. My antenna is mounted outside, which, in my opinion is your best option for maximum signal. I bought the largest outdoor antenna that Rat Shack (Radio Shack) had and mounted it on a ten foot pole with a rotator. I had my dad helping so it was quite easy. It took no longer than an hour to get it all setup. Before I bought antenna I made sure that I was able to get the regular local channels using an indoor antenna.

As Don said, you want to make sure that you get the antenna as much in the "clear" as possible. That means about 5ft or more above your roof line, cutting down tree limbs that may hang above the antenna and insuring that there isn't any metal near the antenna.

RR, another thing that will make this easy is utilize diplexors, you can simply run the RG6 (from the antenna) to your satelite dish (if you have satelite) and use a diplexor, then on the inside of your house where the satelite RG6 enters and plugs into your HDTV receiver you can use another diplexor to split the sat signal and OTA signal, unless you have a sat receiver that has a built in diplexor like a Hughes E86 or one of its clones, I am not sure about other receivers -- that will cut your time tremendously -- of course this depends on you have Satelite either Dish or DirecTV.

A diplexor does cut some of your signal but not enough to worry about.

Good luck

Gator,

I am currently a Dish Network Subscriber and have 2 receivers for a 3 room system:

a) the Dish 811 HD Receiver

b) the Dish 522 DVR Receiver

I am only using my 811 HD receiver for the family room. The 522 controls two other bedrooms. I went outside and took a look at how the Dish Satellite was installed and it looks like one big diplexor is attached. There were two plugs that didn't have wires connected at all (all the other connections had wires running to and from them). I was just wondering what they were for? I'll post a picture when I get home later tonight to show what I'm referring to.

Anyway, glad I found this site and this thread and I look forward to discussing more topics with you all.

Antonio-

A good rule of thumb is to mount the VHF antenna 150% of boom length away from any structure. Beyond that, the benefit is marginal except for vertical height above ground. The higher the better!

My VHF/UHF LP yagi is about 6Ft of boom and I have it mounted on a 10ft mast above roof line. I tried it at 5 ft and the signal was about half. I have the guy wires at the 5ft level, however.

RR, I am not a DISH user but others here can confirm, but I believe what you are seeing is the Multiswitch not a diplexor and the two plugs that are not being used can feed two more receivers in your house (at least that is what I think)

What you need to do is take the line to you HD receiver (811) and connect that to the diplexor as well as the antenna rg6 line to the diplexor then connect the line (existing) that runs to your receiver in your house to the "out" on the diplexor -- in other words the diplexor is two in (satelite/antenna) and one out (to receiver) then inside your house at your 811 you take another diplexor and split the signal back to two seperate signals (sat/antenna) and connect both to your reciever - in other words one in diplexor (satelite combined with antenna) to two out (sat and antenna)

you can go to Home depot to pick up cheaper diplexor's (at least they are 3-4 dollars cheaper than Radio shack)

This should work for you, but others here can confirm or correct me (especially dish users)

Anyone catch Soundstage on PBS last night? It was my first time hearing WJCT broadcast Dolby Digital 5.1 surround. Very impressive.

Originally posted by petergaryr
Anyone catch Soundstage on PBS last night? It was my first time hearing WJCT broadcast Dolby Digital 5.1 surround. Very impressive.

Yeh, I saw it last night. The picture was a little better than the Soundstage that featured Fleetwood Mac. I guess it was the lighting that was used for Sherly Crow. I first noticed the 5.1 on the Fleetwood Mac Soundstage last week. Very good indeed.

Would somebody tell me what the article in today's paper says?

It goes on and on about DVRs, specifically SD boxes (although that's not mentioned), then offhandedly mentions HD uses more disk space. Then it goes into Comcast plans for single and dual tuner boxes. At this point I don't know if he's talking about the 6208/6412 upgrade path for HD DVRs or he's back to talking about the SD DVRs.

Originally posted by grittree
Would somebody tell me what the article in today's paper says?

It goes on and on about DVRs, specifically SD boxes (although that's not mentioned), then offhandedly mentions HD uses more disk space. Then it goes into Comcast plans for single and dual tuner boxes. At this point I don't know if he's talking about the 6208/6412 upgrade path for HD DVRs or he's back to talking about the SD DVRs.

The writer casually mentioned hd disk space as a reference to give individuals and idea of how much sd you'll be able to record. As far as the tuners, he mentioned that Comcast will introduce the sd dual tuner in 7 months. If the introduction of dual tuners is any indication, don't expect hd dvrs from Comcast until very late in the year or early next year.

It's good to see Comcast customers in this area getting the power of dvr in their hands. I have had my dual tuner Diretv Tivo Dvr for about 2 years and it totally changes the way you watch tv. I got my second dvr two months ago. I record a bunch of shows and every other weekend I''ll go on a binder and spend Saturday and Sun watching everything I have recorded.

I just started a new thread for July and August. Please use the new thread.

Have a wonderful Summer, and keep cool! PS

Here is our July and August thread.

PS

The writer casually mentioned hd disk space as a reference to give individuals and idea of how much sd you'll be able to record. As far as the tuners, he mentioned that Comcast will introduce the sd dual tuner in 7 months. If the introduction of dual tuners is any indication, don't expect hd dvrs from Comcast until very late in the year or early next year.

AFH -

I was told by a CSR that the HD DVRs will be available between mid July and the beginning of August here in the Jacksonville area.



Dear Mr.,

Thank you for contacting us regarding your Comcast cable service.

Comcast is currently negotiating to bring Discovery HD to the
Jacksonville market. We are hoping we will not have to wait long but do
not have a time frame at this point.

The DVR box is launching in the Jacksonville market between mid July and
August. The DVR box is HD capable and ready.

Please feel free to contact us if you have any more questions or
concerns at 904-374-8000. Thank you for choosing Comcast Cable.

Sincerely,

Pam
Comcast Customer Care Specialist
**************************************************
The response contained in this message is intended for the addressee
only and may vary from other responses depending on geography,
promotional campaigns or other factors. If you are not the intended
recipient of this response, please delete this message. Any unauthorized
use or dissemination of the information contained in this message is
prohibited.
**************************************************

Original Message Follows:
------------------------

Name: Jack
Address:
Address:

Evening Phone: 904-
E-mail:

Category: Comcast Cable Television
Sub-Category: Systems of North Florida

Account Number:

Comments:

I have two questions on HDTV service.

With the other comcast areas already getting DiscoveryHD, when can we
expect to see that channel in our lineup here in the NE FLorida area?

When can we expect to get the HDTV DVR? I had submitted my email to be
put on a list (if there is one) for getting the HDTV DVR when it does
roll out.

Thanks in advance,
Jack

Looks like Comcast moved the CBS QAM channel from 102.1 to 114.02. Also, ESPN went from 102.02 to 102.1. I thought there was something wrong with my set, because in the morning I got nothing on 102 at all, but later in the evening I found them again.

Have you noticed the analog comcast channels being different?

Mine keep discoloring on occasion, nothing wrong with the digital stations.


Im guessing they are moving things for DiscoveryHD, FOX.


- Jack

Just got off of the phone with Comcast.

They have the HD-DVR 6208s in stock. You will need to be on their list though.


Im picking mine up in the morning.


- Jack

Question about picking up the box.

Do you miss out on anything doing that, say like free cables or ...? And do you save the $16 install fee?

No install Fee.

Im checking to make sure all the cables are there, although Im not sure of the quality of cables that Comcast gives. (the COAX is awesome, not sure of the other stuff)

The component cables looks pretty good. I've seen thinner ones.

Great PQ on inhd, good PQ on sd stuff.

There is no "list". 1st come, 1st served. I think I was the 5th out at Southpoint. You can get the six month special incl HBO. Not sure if that applies if you already had HD service.

The list must have been just a few people long then... I was the 2nd one there to get one.

:)


You get the 6208/2005 model as well?


BTW, I asked about the dual tuner model, was told by both the CSRs there that they had heard in Septmeber. I told them Ill be back in September to swap this one out.


I traded my SD digital box since the fee isnt but a dollar more for the HD Box. I also kept the 6200 for the office/guest room so I have a reason to buy another HDTV.

:)

The wife is going to get me one day.

- Jack

Yup, got the /2005. Is that like the date code on milk?

Seems to work great, despite the most godawful interface. Looks like it was designed in 1990 by somebody who had never seen a Tivo.

Unfortunately it has firmware 7.07. Anybody know a headend tech here?
80gb goes quick at HD rates.

Jack, does your 6200 have the 7.10? I dread trying to ask a CSR that question. I might rent a 6200 for a while if it does.

How did u all get a hold of the new STB? Did you call Comcast first to get it, or just show up somewhere with your old box?

I just called comcast, and everyone is eligable for hbo for free for 6 months. I had the basic hd package, and got the free upgrade for 54.99 a month.

Will be picking up my 6200 tomorrow.

ok, found out that the hbo deal is in fact for new customers only. My cousin tried to call up and get the deal and the rep got upset with him. I just got lucky I guess.

The way I understood it, the HBO deal was for new-to-digital service. But I bet if you threatened to downgrade first, they might just give it to you anyway. YMMV.

Has Fox begun HD? Tonight's The Jury is 1280x720p. The Monday shows were still 480p.

Hey, cool! There's a Jackie Chan movie on now. It is just a 4:3 auto-upconvert but it is indeed being sent as a 720p signal.

Nifty. :)

- Tom

Originally posted by grittree
Has Fox begun HD? Tonight's The Jury is 1280x720p. The Monday shows were still 480p.

Do you and Tom have recievers that tell what resolution something is being broadcast in? Just curious b/c if you guys are seeing that, it could mean that WAWS has installed the 720p equipment. The next step would be to get the splicer installed.

Do you and Tom have recievers that tell what resolution something is being broadcast in?

Yes. I'm using a HiDtv card in a PC which has a status screen that tells the format. But I leave it set to output everything in 1080i and would not have known or bothered to check without grittree's post above.

- Tom

I didn't notice any diff in the PQ. The ED they used to send was very good.

Just clicked to see the elapsed time and noticed the video format.

Has anyone noticed that PBS-HD (WJCT-DT) video and audio signal (at least on Cable) has been more steady since they came back up from the 4th of July down period? I am almost ready to eat crow and change my original evaluation from unreliable viewing to more reliable.
Duane Smith, Engineering Mgr., WJCT, if you are observing, did you get a larger squirrel for the cage, or turn that red button on top of the transmitter to MAX? Seriously, It does seem better and I hope the improvement was a result of a permanent overt action on your part rather than a weather or other phenomenon change. Good show. :)

Originally posted by Ross Moody
Has anyone noticed that PBS-HD (WJCT-DT) video and audio signal (at least on Cable) has been more steady since they came back up from the 4th of July down period?

Had to say something didnt you? Last night was pixellated.. I think they were showing killer whales best I could tell.

Originally posted by sikoniko
Had to say something didnt you? Last night was pixellated.. I think they were showing killer whales best I could tell.

Sorry, saw it also. The squirrel must have cramps or something. Bad, BAD, BADDER; no more compliments from me.:mad:

I was watching the Casino on Fox last night and that was the sharpest SD widescreen presentation I have ever seen. I flipped back and forth from ABC where there was an HD broadcast and the two looked real close. I was wondering if Fox installed its 720p equipment and was possibly upconverting?

It will be interesting to see what the All Star Game looks like tonight.

Peter, I think (look back to page one of this thread) someone else mentioned that they were receiving a 720p feed from WAWS, but I have not seen it myself. If true then I would assume that Jerry has his equipment in place and I guess the only question is if the Network guys have installed the splicer -- we should be set then..... looking forward to football season.

Jeff,
How are people determining the signal rate? I have a Hughes e86 and all it ever shows is 1080i, no matter what.

I have the E86 (clone actually) but in the case of some receivers (I am not sure which ones) as well as HTPC's - video cards you can tell what signal they are sending.

On another note, I have been having reception issues with my OTA ever since the "so called" lightning strike on ABC/NBC -- is anyone else having issues or do I need to debug my system?

Currently I am getting 100% on CBS/FOX/Chan4 and for the most part PBS, but ABC/NBC is pretty weak, actually I can no longer lock on a signal -- WB I have never been able to lock in but that is a different issue.

I am going to check my cable connections and Antenna, and my Hughes clone doesn't seem too hot, so I don't think it is giving out (yet)

So, what are we seeing for the MLB allstar game 720P??? -- I think it is a mix between HD and SD cameras anyone else??

I agree there seems to be some variety. On close-ups, faces are quite sharp. On long shots, such as faces in the crowd, less distinct.

Just added the HD TIVO here and I am not real happy with the OTA signal sensitivity. I get 2 channels solid, WTEV and WJXT. WAWS, WJCT are quite bad and mostly pixelated. WJWB is not even present. On my VOOM receiver they are all solid and high quality.

Is anyone else using an HDTIVO and what are your OTA signals like?

Don,

I have HDTivo as well and I can receive all channels from here, Arlington, using Silver Sensor antenna with a signal amplifier for UHF and Megawave for VHF.

Have you noticed the channels 21-* in your guide ? According to the NAB website, it is WPXC PAX 21.n (24) and supposed to be in operation. But I cannot receive it. Not sure how far the station is from Arlington.

I'm thinking about switching my 5100 Comcast Box for the newer 6208, so from those who already have the 6208 is the DVI working on that box?

I believe WPXC-DT (24-1) is broadcasting from Brunswick, GA. From Fruit Cove, that would be about 73 miles for me. I did a quick look-up on Titan TV for their programming schedule. If HD is what you are after, I didn't see any programs listed.

I saw a commercial for the Olympics. It said it would be HD and in Surround Sound. I know our local stations won't pass the 5.1 sound and it's a real shame. PBS can do it, but not the commercial stations, geez.

I obtained a high gain preamp for the antenna and hope to install it just for the TIVO tomorrow. I find it hard to believe that my TIVO is failing so bad considering I can see the towers from my antenna position. Can't get much better than that. We'll see.

News from Bill Schneider WYLV/WJXX I had placed an inquiry about the status of PSIP and he said they do not have it in place yet (as we all know) but it is planned for soon. He did not say when.


I have not seen any DD5.1 from local PBS. Everything has been DD2.0 that I have seen. I have a meta data LED indicator here to know exactly which 7 channels are active.

Don,

Soundstage has been in 5.1, but that is the only program so far where I have heard it. However, it was quite spectacular.

Thanks, Peter, I will set a TIVO search and record to check it out.

taichinada- Can you do a test for me? Since you get WJWB DT, can you test all DVR functions with that channel and let me know if any of the functions fail. Pause, timer record, fast forward, instant replay etc. Thanks

Don,

I tested all the functions you mentioned and others and they all work fine.
(BTW I have a signal strength of 80 on 17-1).

Originally posted by ghjaxman
I'm thinking about switching my 5100 Comcast Box for the newer 6208, so from those who already have the 6208 is the DVI working on that box?

I just picked up the 6208 today but I don't have a DVI cable to test whether it's enabled. Of course, the CSRs on the phone and at the service center were clueless. I'm hoping someone else will confirm whether the DVI is working.

Hello all,

I am also from Jacksonville. Actually i live about 25 miles outside Jax now in a town called Bryceville. I got last friday the new Sammy HLP and Direct TV on Tuesday hooked up a sammy HDTV receiver with their hdtv package.

I want to get locals in hdtv. But out there a little rabbit ear hdtv antenna wont cut the cheese. Does anybody know what would be a good antenna for me to use would be and maybe somebody in town who might sell it?

As long as i got that puppy up and running before the FSU-UM MNF game on labor day i'll be happy! :-)

Thanks
Brad

DVI is enabled on your 6208. But beware, my experience and most others are that component gives a much better picture for some unknown reason.

"BTW I have a signal strength of 80 on 17-1"

What part of town and what type of antenna?


I finally got the TIVO to see a signal from WJWB long enough to test it here too and, like you said it is functional 100%. This tells me the 921 is to blame for it not having that capability around the nation. Some were believing it was something the stations were doing.

Anyway, I'm real concerned about why my TIVO has such lousy reception on all channels. The strongest is WTEV at 45-50%. All channel signal strength on all my other receivers is quite strong. Next week I plan to contact some tech support at TIVO since DirecTV doesn't want to discuss OTA issues. I'm wondering if the tuner is bad, or is there something I didn't do during setup. Everything else seems to be fine except for the known bugs on audio quitting on HDNet.

grittree-

Component is noticeably better? I've heard reports that DVI was no better than component on other cable boxes, but I haven't heard that component was much better before. Any idea if there is a fix for it on the way?

Brad,

You could try TitanTV.com. From their main menu, click on "Command Center", then "Antenna Selector". It will give a specific model recommendation.

Another source is antennaweb.org. They will give you a color coded recommendation. Look for any antenna that matchs that color code on the box.

However, just a friendly warning: OTA is tricky at best. We have some people here in Jacksonville who have trouble receiving certain stations. Be prepared to raise/lower/re-orient/amplify the antenna until you get the results you want.

Don,

I'm using Silver Sensor with an signal amplifier from Arlington.

Thanks.

One of my tests now is to try a completely different OTA antenna design. It will be the one that came with the VOOM system I have still packed away in the box. It has been suggested that the TIVO is easily overloaded and I need to use a smaller antenna. I will do the test if for no other reason than to eliminate that. I also want to try a UHF only double bowtie.



Update- Found a solution that works. Boosted the antenna signal with a preamp and then fine tuned the signal with a Radio Shack variable attenuator. The signals all peaked at the same setting with a TIVO meter readings between 92 and 96. The adjustment was critical, not broad. But, now my TIVO is receiving all the channels solid and steady. The meters don't fluctuate at all.

Thanks Petergaryr,

I will check those out and see what i can find.

Cheers,
Brad

Originally posted by BradSontag
Hello all,

I am also from Jacksonville. Actually i live about 25 miles outside Jax now in a town called Bryceville. I got last friday the new Sammy HLP and Direct TV on Tuesday hooked up a sammy HDTV receiver with their hdtv package.

I want to get locals in hdtv. But out there a little rabbit ear hdtv antenna wont cut the cheese. Does anybody know what would be a good antenna for me to use would be and maybe somebody in town who might sell it?

As long as i got that puppy up and running before the FSU-UM MNF game on labor day i'll be happy! :-)

Thanks
Brad

Go to Books A Million, Barnes and Noble or Borders and pick up the August 2004 edition of Home Theater Magazine. There is a article in there written by Peter Putman called 'Terrestrial HDTV'. In this article he reviews about 7 various antennas that he used to try and rec local hd stations from his suburban Philly home which is about 25 miles from the Philly antennas. He also gives different ideas on placement. Check it out.

Don,

Don't you also have the HD DVR from Dish? I know that you are having issues with the HD Tivo, but when you get it operating you should give use a mini review comparing the two!

Thanks AFH....I will pick it up tomorrow..

Cheers,
Brad

I have the 921 since January.
I have the HDTIVO since last Thursday and the VOOM (no DVR) since end of May.

I'll put something together in a week or so but let me get used to the operational learning curve of the TIVO. Compared to the 921 it is far more powerful and requires much more study.

Don, I am curious about a few things:

Did you get a discount/credit from D* if so how much?

your antenna situation with the HDTivo -- with the preamp/attenuator?
Currently I am running my antenna line through my D* line with a Diplexor and then letting my Hughes clone diplex the signal back to two lines, Is it possible to us pre-amps/attenuators/or other items with a diplexed signal?

I am still having some issues with ABC/NBC and the WB has never been locked in except when the Moon aligns correctly with Venus!!!!

Jeff- The OTA signal propagation is borderline weird science. But here are some things you can do-

You can add a pream to your signal line going into your receiver or add one up on the antenna. The concept of adding it up on the antenna is to reduce the amplification of multipath picked up by the feedline. If you add it down at the receiver the amp will increase all the multipath on the feedline as well as the antenna. Therefore it is better to put the preamp up at the antenna.
You can add the attenuator at the receiver.

I had no luck with fixed DB attenuators and no luck with the preamp but in combination, adding the preamp for the TIVO only and then a variable attenuator after to adjust the actual signal into the TIVO, I was able to dial in the perfect signal quantity that produced the most stable picture. Fortunately that setting was good for all channels. AS is often said, YMMV!

As you have heard me say in the past, my location and clear shot to the tower farm has resulted in near perfect signals on all my other receivers prior to the HDTIVO. That one required a special regulated amount to work.

taichinada is at a different azimuth from the farm and a slight bit farther away so he seems to have excellent luck with his reception without all the hoops I had to jump through using the same receiver. As I said, borderline weird science!

Jeff, one more thing- When you are dealing with diplexed bands of signals, you have to keep in mind more issues, such as what bands are being diplexed and is the Preamp going to adversely affect other bands while fixing the troubled one. Also, watch out for DC feeds and AC power feeds that are inserted on the coax. This can get tricky and according to warning sheets if you connect this stuff wrong you could destroy something, like your receiver's front end. Personally, I don't diplex as it restricts my experimentation and puts me at risk due to power supply conflicts.

Is anyone getting sound from the digital station for the WB tonight? I am trying to watch Summerland on 17-1 and there isn't any sound. There is sound on the sd station, but my surround sound rec is showing Prologic as the sound format on 17-1 and that is wrong.

Something was wrong with 17-1 last night. I recorded it, but it barely plays back. All pixelated, but the sound is there (stereo). File size is about 1gb smaller than normal.
It repeats Monday I think.

Has anyone heard when Comcast is going to add Fox and Discovery HD? I picked up my new 6208 box on Saturday and the CSR had no clue on any dates.

I recorded Summerland on 17-1 as well and just finished watching it back. No problems with picture or sound. Either Arlington is in a 'perfect' location or the Silver Sensor antenna works so well or both.

Hey Don, I also have the HD Tivo. I have a hard time now picking up 25.1 I get lots of pixelization.

I live in Mandarin. On my Sony HD300 I had great reception.

What kind of pre-amp do you suggest. My Antenna is mounted in the attic, (80 Inch boom) Ratio Shack.

I only have problem with 25.1 (Channel 10).

John Morgis

This is too wierd. I am still not getting any sound on 17-1 WB. It shows up in the Directv guide as digital but my av rec is not decoding the sound and it shows up as Prologic on the av rec.

This just in- (Oh that sounds like a news story)

"Hello,



"You will probably notice that we have activated 10-2 today. The programming will be announced on Monday. So for now we have color bars on it.



Bill Schneider"

Originally posted by jmorgis
Hey Don, I also have the HD Tivo. I have a hard time now picking up 25.1 I get lots of pixelization.

I live in Mandarin. On my Sony HD300 I had great reception.

What kind of pre-amp do you suggest. My Antenna is mounted in the attic, (80 Inch boom) Ratio Shack.

I only have problem with 25.1 (Channel 10).

John Morgis


John- IMO, until you get the antenna out in the clear you will have continued problems and the surrounding box (attic) over your antenna will constantly change the receiving properties of your antenna. Adding a preamp usually exacerbates the problem as it amplifies multipath. Now that you are understanding of that, if you want to spend the money on the preamps, give it a try.

Also, channel 10 and 13 are transmitted from the same location at nearly the same ERP. The differences in reception could likely be the effects of how your antenna is reacting to being in an attic where the attic is causing the antenna to be poor at certain frequencies. Anytime you bury an antenna inside of an attic, or even inside a tree with lots of leaves, the antenna no longer operates the way it was designed.

If your report is just from the last 24 hours, you may have experienced some testing being done but if you have tried reception over a period of weeks with no result then it could be antenna issues. In addition, the HDTIVO, from what I have seen by my own experience and by what others are reporting around the country is a very sensitive receiver. This means that it requires that a signal be ideally perfect specs to work properly. For my situation, any slight deviation from what works causes quick pixelation and then total loss of all channels. One cheap thing you could try as it won't cost too much is to add an attenuator that has a variable adjustment ands try to dial in the channel the way I did. Ratshack has these for $8.99. But, what worked for me may do nothing for you. The signal meter on the HR10-250 is not just signal strength. It is a signal quality meter and will dip down when the signal actually gets too strong, or multipath increases. I actually increased my meter reading when I reduced my preamplfied signal. The preamplifier by itself was too much and no preamplifier was too little. This only applies to the HDTIVO. All other receivers work fine.


For anyone with a 921, the latest L186 software update now requires PSIP for channel reception. If the station is not transmitting PSIP, the 921 will not receive that channel even though the meters are strong. This, in Jax, applies to WJXX and WTLV. If any of you would like to have PSIP for any other reasons, call the station or request it of Bill Schneider or Station Management so that feature will get more priority.

is our local WB hd yet? what about UPN? if not, has anybody heard anything? I am a comcast subscriber, so I wouldnt really know until I got the channel. I've read about fox, and look forward to it. A comcast installation guy told me "before the superbowl". hope that is also before the season starts. heh.

also, any comcast subscriber have information on discovery going live? I keep reading about cities across the us going live with it...

Originally posted by sikoniko
is our local WB hd yet? what about UPN? if not, has anybody heard anything? I am a comcast subscriber, so I wouldnt really know until I got the channel. I've read about fox, and look forward to it. A comcast installation guy told me "before the superbowl". hope that is also before the season starts. heh.

also, any comcast subscriber have information on discovery going live? I keep reading about cities across the us going live with it...

Yes, our local WB is broadcasting in hd. UPN programming is shown on the Fox affil and therefore, it does not show any hd programming.

Originally posted by Don Landis
This just in- (Oh that sounds like a news story)

"Hello,



"You will probably notice that we have activated 10-2 today. The programming will be announced on Monday. So for now we have color bars on it.



Bill Schneider"

Don,

Last night when I was watching 25-1 ABC, around 8:45pm the color bars came up on that station. I then went to 10-2 or 10-1 and found the hd show that was on. I guess that explains what Bill said above. Do you think that they will turn of 25-1?

Also, I am still having this sound issue with 17-1 WB. It could be my rec b/c I had to replace my Hughes E86 in the past week b/c of low voltage problems and it worked on 17-1. I have the Directv protection program and they send out a new rec when a tech comes out to test the issue. The problem is that they sent me a Samsung TS160 last Thursday that would only play the sound from programs that had a Dolby Digital soundtrack. I returned that and they sent me the Samsung TS360 on Wednesday of this week. Everything works fine except for the signal strenght meter for hd local stations (which I read about in the hardward forum) and the fact that I cannot get the sound from 17-1. It seems that everyone here is getting the sound from 17-1 and I am trying to figure out if this is a issue with this rec that I need to let DTV know about so that I can get a dif one.

What's your opinion?

Antonio-

First of all ALL digital broadcast must use Dolby Digital. Either 2.0 or any flavor that Dolby allows for higher such as 3/2, 2.1, 3.0, up to 5.1 (a.k.a. AC3 audio) A receiver may output either DD or PCM or simple analog stereo or mono decoded from the Dolby Digital broadcast signal.

Second, I will try to check out WB17's sound specifically on all my receivers here sometime today and get back to you. I don't normally watch that channel but do catch it on surfing and have not observed any problems lately. If there is a problem with your DD output but no problem with analog audio out you just may have a problem with the Fiber modulator but then I would suspect it would create issues with all DD audio, not just WB17. FYI- Last I checked their meta data it was simple DD2.0 with DPL

Here is what I get with OTA on my HD TIVO (HR10-250)

12.1 (30) Strength = 71
47.1 (19) Strength = 94
4.1 (42) Strength = 95
25.1 (10) Strength = 62
7.1 (38) Strength = 95
17.1 (34) Strength = 90
30.1 (32) Strength = 94

You can see why I have troubles with 25.1!!!

Anyone else get this?

John

Originally posted by Don Landis
Antonio-

First of all ALL digital broadcast must use Dolby Digital. Either 2.0 or any flavor that Dolby allows for higher such as 3/2, 2.1, 3.0, up to 5.1 (a.k.a. AC3 audio) A receiver may output either DD or PCM or simple analog stereo or mono decoded from the Dolby Digital broadcast signal.

Second, I will try to check out WB17's sound specifically on all my receivers here sometime today and get back to you. I don't normally watch that channel but do catch it on surfing and have not observed any problems lately. If there is a problem with your DD output but no problem with analog audio out you just may have a problem with the Fiber modulator but then I would suspect it would create issues with all DD audio, not just WB17. FYI- Last I checked their meta data it was simple DD2.0 with DPL

Thanks and when you get time to check I would appreciate it. The wierd thing is that I get the DD2.0 for the other locals and the reg 5.1 on the hbos and showtimes as well as the prologic stuff. From what you said above, WB was sending out the same DD2.0 as the othe locals. I don't know if they are doing anything diff now.

John- First buy the Radioshack variable attenuator and tune to the 25.1 channel and adjust it watching the meter. See if you can get it any higher. If not, buy a preamp and install it according to the directions. Preferably a preamp that puts it up at the antenna with a power inserter at your receiver. Then add the attenuator between the power inserter and the receiver. try to adjust for best signal. If none of this works, then you'll have to resort to outside mounting of the antenna.

FWIW- all my locals are in the mid 90's, including WJXX 25-1

Don the new remapping of ABC what exactly is this all about, I noticed in another thread in Orlando area a mention of WESH-DT adding a subchannel - possibly for olympics or political coverage?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=426067

Originally posted by Don Landis
This just in- (Oh that sounds like a news story)

"Hello,



"You will probably notice that we have activated 10-2 today. The programming will be announced on Monday. So for now we have color bars on it.



Bill Schneider"

My HD Tivo cannot tune to 25-1 anymore. I have to enter 10-1 for which Tivo guide has no data. This must be caused by the change mentioned above.

boy that must suck for you guys with HDTivos??

antonio-

WB17's audio is normal. DD2.0 +DPL Something is not right at your end, I believe. Was it always this way or just recently? What equipment is in the sound chain?


I didn't get a chance to check the WJXX signals this evening but when I did I saw they were completely off the air. Then later WTLV 13-1 was off. It came back on at about 4AM but WJXX was still off the air. I'm sure they are doing some modifications and adjustments.

As for the HDTIVO- I'm still quite the HDTIVO newbie. I don't know if the guide info has to updated first as it does for VOOM receivers or as an option the TIVO can pick up on a PSIP embedded data. I do know that on the latest L186 software downloaded on the E* 921, PSIP has to be sent before that receiver will display the channel. That means that WTLV and WJXX cannot be viewed on that receiver. At any rate it is quite possible that many people won't be able to see the 10-2 signal until their guides are sent the proper info from the station.
My current system only has 3 OTA receivers active. I have two others that do not require guide data or PSIP but I was using them so little I pulled them from the rack. Unless I reinstall one of those older receivers, some of you all may see 25-2 before I can.

Originally posted by Don Landis
antonio-

WB17's audio is normal. DD2.0 +DPL Something is not right at your end, I believe. Was it always this way or just recently? What equipment is in the sound chain?


Thanks for checking. WB has always worked fine with my E86. Then my E86 had voltage problems and DTV replaced it with the Samsung TS160. The Samsung TS 160 wouldn't play back regular Prologic soundtracks from the optical or coaxial connections but it did playback the digital signal from all of the local stations. Then DTV replaced it with what I currently have now which is the Samsung TS360 and all of this has happened in the past 2 weeks. My av rec is a B&K AVR 307. I have an optical cable running from the 360 to the B&K. On the Directv rec it shows that the sound on WB is digital. However, my av rec isn'y getting anything from the DTV rec that indicates that b/c my AVR 307 just shows Prologic. I'm going to have to play around with it before sending it back to DTV. I'm going to connect a coaxial cable and see if that works. I believe that the DTV rec is not sending the correct information for WB to my av rec.

Update:

Connected DTV rec to a second AV rec and I was not able to get the sound from 17-1. I checked my on screen guide for my B&K and it shows that the sound coming out of the DTV rec on 17-1 is PCM 2.0 48K even though it is supposed to be AC3 2.0. On the other digital stations it shows AC3 2.0 48k. It has to be the DTV rec. I tried rescanning the channels and still no change.

Antonio- The symptom you point out is like the metadata is not correct in their Dolby Digital but I see it here as correct. If you go into your tuner and select DD only does the sound disappear altogether?

Most tuners will allow you to select DD or PCM or both. Then you set your receiver/amp for Auto sense. This is how I do it here for my Denon. I select Both PCM and DD and put the Denon in auto sense.

Originally posted by Don Landis
Antonio- The symptom you point out is like the metadata is not correct in their Dolby Digital but I see it here as correct. If you go into your tuner and select DD only does the sound disappear altogether?

Most tuners will allow you to select DD or PCM or both. Then you set your receiver/amp for Auto sense. This is how I do it here for my Denon. I select Both PCM and DD and put the Denon in auto sense.

My B&K is in auto sense mode. I can select PCM and DD in the menu on the DTV rec but when I select PCM the sound still did not come through on 17-1. It came through on the other stations but as Prologic. What is wierd is that I also get 17-2 and the sound format is the same as 17-1, and I am able to get the sound on 17-2. I noticed that the Samsung recognizing the DD 2.0 when it comes in the DTV rec, but when the sound leaves the Samsung it comes out as PCM 2.0 according to the readout on B&K.

I got word from someone in a different market that said that their FOX splicer was installed. They were told that some testing would be done next week. Apparently they were also told that WAWS in Jacksonville was another affiliate that had the splicer and would be testing next week.

Can anyone confirm? If so, please post in the FOX HD thread in the Programming forum.

Don, i must be missing somthing. I need to boost the signal on 10 (25.1). Wont a variable attenuator lower it? (Currently 62 on HD Tivo)

As Antennaweb.org states, im 10 miles from the tower.

John

I think I might have found my problem. I am using the RS (15-2160) UHF 50 inch outdoor antenna.

I need a VHF and UHF because 25.1 in transmitted on channel 10, which is VHF.

I explains why all my channels are in the 90's but channel 13 and 10!

I am planning to pickup the RS 15-2151 (VU-75XR). And give it a try.

John

Ok, maybe bad timing. But now I cannot get anything on 25.1

Are they doing something?

John

Yesterday I had nothing on 25.1. I had to manually key in 10-2 to get what was formerly on 25.1. See if that helps.

Thanks Peter, well after changing the antenna, here is what I receive now...

12.1 (30) Strength = 88
47.1 (19) Strength = 92
4.1 (42) Strength = 95
25.1 (10) Strength = 89
7.1 (38) Strength = 88
17.1 (34) Strength = 88
30.1 (32) Strength = 94

Great improvment, Channel 10 (25.1) has increased from 62 -> 89 (44% increase)!!

Also the VU-75XR is also on about 100ft of RG-6 (attic mount)

John

Oh, didn't realize you had a UHF antenna for JAX. We went through this a year ago about Jax requires a UHF / VHF antenna.

I'm doing some testing now.

OK just completed it and I have good news for you all.

I now have WJXX on HDTIVO. Here's what you need to do:


First go into your OTA antenna signal and check signal strength on channel 10.
I got 97

Next go into a rescan of all your OTA channels. 2-69

Now check to see what was added. I got 10-1 and 10-2. :)

Now go into your favorites and make sure you have a check by 10-1 and 10-2.

Now check your guide for a 10-1 and 10-2 channel It should be there.

Go to those and you should see 10-1 as it was before as regular ABC programming and 10-2 has SMPTE color bars and test tone, just as Bill Schneider said it would be.

No guide data, just says "Regular Programming"


25-1 is still there but no signal. Probably because Bill has screwed up the software of the TIVO that says to remap and then look for guide data from some other source.

I think untill Gannet begins doing PSIP we can expect lots of problems with modern day digital receivers.

____________________________

I know this is hard to understand and I had to struggle with it too but the signal meter is affected in two ways, signal strength and signal disruptive problems. If the signal is too strong or contains too much multipath the meter will go down. It only peaks when the signal is perfect. If you are in the high 80's then I wouldn't mess with it. I had signal in the low teens and adding a preamp didn't do anything for that. adding a preamp Plus the attenuator and backing off a bit from the fixed gain gave me the right gain to put the signals exactly where the tivo wanted them.

Is 10-2 going to be ABC News Now?

http://www.dbsforums.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=37393

Well, at least on my Hughes e86, 10-1 seems to be ABC News Now, and 10-2 is the regular programming. 10-1 remaps to 25-1. There is no program guide, even after I forced a re-download.

I"m at the office now so I can't check but earlier this moring 10-1 was just color bars, with ABC "Classic" as 10-2.

- Tom

Yes, 25-1 is the ABC network 24hr news. 10-2 is showing the regularly scheduled programming.

So what is showing in the Guide Data now, I would assume that it is all messed up and that we should contact ABC and zap2it?

Originally posted by Gator99
So what is showing in the Guide Data now, I would assume that it is all messed up and that we should contact ABC and zap2it?

Nothing is showing up in the guide for 10-2. The guide for 25-1 shows what programs are currently on ABC network even though 25-1 is showing the ABC 24hr news programming.

I don't understand how some tuners can get abcnewsnow on 10-2 and others on 10-1. On my TV I get it on -2, just like abc says I should. My two other atsc tuners get the regular abc on either 10-1 or 25-1.

I believe the actual signal is rf10-2. Maybe the PIDs are wrong and some tuners use it and some don't? Heck, I never could figure out why some of my tuners use the virtual channel number only on some of the stations.

Can't comment on the guides since I have never looked at them.

I don't understand how some tuners can get abcnewsnow on 10-2 and others on 10-1.

abc-new-snow is probably not an appropriate name for a digital TV channel. ;)

- Tom

right Tom, especially since snow is only output on analog tuners. :D


Until WJXX and WTLV get their PSIP going, every receiver that tries to tune will get it on whatever sub channel it wants.
FWIW- I get it on the subchannels that Bill Schneider said it should be on with my HDTIVO. The 921 now refuses to do more than a Black screen silence with any channel lacking PSIP. Haven't tried VOOM yet.

Guide info is all messed up on the HDTIVO but that's nothing new. Guide info on locals is messed up on everything especially with WJCT.

addition:
I saw the Times Union had a front page announcement about the new channel and the news subchannel was stated as 10-2.

I got a msg on my comcast box about the tyson fight on ch. 168.. Thats the channel I was thinking discovery would show up on. Wonder if after the fight they will bring discovery on?? anybody have any idea what the holdup is?

I saw that fox got the splicer installed here. You guys with the antennas notice any difference? I know it isnt hd yet, but just curious...

Being rerun season and all I have not watched anything on Fox for a couple weeks. But their 480p always looked good (in Detroit) for movies though not for video (sports).

Still, the only 720p I've seen here on Fox so far was just an upconversion when it was posted a couple weeks ago that they were now doing this. I think Tru Calling is about the only remaining show I watch on Fox now. Hopefully if that's not canceled they will be ready to show that in 720p when the season starts. Oops, one more, North Shore. I'll have to see if that looks better yet. I think that's Fox.

- Tom (seemingly rambling today)

Sikino,

I haven't watched a show on Fox this week, but when Northshore comes on this Monday I will watch and see how the upconversion looks. I did watch NS after Tom and someone else here mentioned that our Fox affil was upconverting to 720p. It looked slightly better but you couldn't tell that diff. Now come Sept 12., we'll be able to see the diff.

I watched 10 minutes of a movie on Fox last night trying to see how the sound is and it sounded similar, but once again we won't hear the diff until the DD 5.1 kicks in on Sept 12.

Don,

I found out why my DTV rec would not output sound on 17-1. I had DTV send me a new one and it was installed yesterday. The Samsung TS 360 has a option in the menu to search for program guide data for OTA channels once they are scanned in. Well, after I scanned in the digitals channels I got sound from 17-1. Five minutes later I decided that I wanted to load in the guide data for the digitals. I went into the menu, entered my zip code and selected Jacksonville. The rec accepted the info, rebooted itself and loaded in the guide data for the OTA channels. Well, guess what, the sound for 17-1 was not there.

It took me ten minutes to figure out that loading the guide data was causing the sound problem for 17-1. In the menu, there is no separate fuction for loading the guide data for Digital OTA and Analog OTA. Once I cleared the previously loaded info, the rec rebooted itself and the sound for 17-1 came back. The problem now is that I don't have any channel info for my digital OTA stations, which is fine for now. The info banner for each station just says "DTV Program".

Now my question to you. Have you seen a rec do this before and what do you think is happening internally in the rec when it loads the guide data?

Antonio- This is just a guess- I believe you have discovered a bug in your receiver's firmware. I have never heard of any other receiver doing that.

Time to consider another receiver. Of course, you will then suffer a new set of bugs. :) Nothing is perfect. Personally, I'd rather have sound than guide info. Duh!

Originally posted by Don Landis
Antonio- This is just a guess- I believe you have discovered a bug in your receiver's firmware. I have never heard of any other receiver doing that.

Time to consider another receiver. Of course, you will then suffer a new set of bugs. :) Nothing is perfect. Personally, I'd rather have sound than guide info. Duh!

I agree, I would rather have the sound. DTV sent to rec to me for free so I'll take it with some of its faults. It does perform better on 47-1 and 7-1 did my E86 and that is a good thing.

I still cant receive anything on 25.1, however 10.1 and 10.2 are ok.

The problem is my HD Tivo, has no guide data for 10.1 and 10.2

How can I tivo shows on ABC, without guide data?

John

Originally posted by jmorgis
I still cant receive anything on 25.1, however 10.1 and 10.2 are ok.

The problem is my HD Tivo, has no guide data for 10.1 and 10.2

How can I tivo shows on ABC, without guide data?

John

Try recording using the time/station and day option. The two non-hd tivos that I have have such an option.

I am hoping that after the elections this ABC Now experiment fails. The picture on 10-1 is highly compressed (and I guess I am greatful for that because I assume it means it is using as little bandwith as possible?).

Even so, it is probably my imagination but it seems at least to me that the HD PQ on 10-2 is grainer than before. It has always been soft, but lately if I flip between 10-2 and 30-1 during primetime it seems as though the upconverted WAWS FOX widescreen looks about the same as the 720p ABC feed.

That said, I still feel quite blessed after reading some of the other local threads; Jacksonville has an amazing number of OTA digital stations transmitting some portion of their day in HD. I forget that sometimes. If there are any station owners/managers/engineers lurking here: thank you for your efforts.

John- Antonio gave you your best option. Keep in mind that the TIVO is mostly NBR and as such REQUIRES an ACCURATE guide to work. Even though WJCT (7.1thru4)has a guide on all 4 subchannels on the TIVO it is about 90% inaccurate. WJCT requires a manual time / channel number to record as well. The channel 25.1 guide will not work because it is a false mapped channel. The way the software works for PSIP seems to be different for each receiver as well. Even in our small Jax community we have reports of people getting different results based on different receivers. Not only should the FCC require all broadcast stations to send PSIP the STB manufacturers need to be regulated on how they decode the PSIP to receiver function. Until this standardization happens we all will never have a system that works as it should all the time.
At least the HDTIVO can receive 10-x. The 921 can't even display a channel now without PSIP. This change was made on the 921's last software update on July 13. From that day on both WTLV and WJXX are as if they don't exist. This is true for all stations without PSIP across the nation, not just Jax.


Re the WJXX ABCNewsnow.
I don't feel this should be a problem. The ATSC standard should be capable of adequate bandwidth for a full HDTV 720P signal on 10.1 simultaneously with a 480i signal on 10.2. When this is needed the stations usually restrict their HDTV bandwidth to below 15 Mbs. 4.3 Mbs for the news channel should be adequate except during times of extreme motion. Mostly the news will be static video which has low

Re the WJXX ABCNewsnow.
I don't feel this should be a problem. The ATSC standard should be capable of adequate bandwidth for a full HDTV 720P signal on 10.1 simultaneously with a 480i signal on 10.2. When this is needed the stations usually restrict their HDTV bandwidth to below 15 Mbs. 4.3 Mbs for the news channel should be adequate except during times of extreme motion. Mostly the news will be static video which has low

Being rerun season I don't think I've watched any ABC HD since they put up the news channel. But I will try to record some of The Days tonight and analyze the bit stream to see what bit rates ABC is actually using now for the different sub-channels.

- Tom

Originally posted by trbarry
Being rerun season I don't think I've watched any ABC HD since they put up the news channel. But I will try to record some of The Days tonight and analyze the bit stream to see what bit rates ABC is actually using now for the different sub-channels.

- Tom

Tom, when you get a chance to watch The Days, tell me if you don't notice how jittery the camera movement is. It is even more prevalent on the sd feed. The thing the producers are trying to do with the camera movement makes me a bit quizzy.

I've never seen the Days except a brief commercial here & there which I didn't pay much attention to. Those were probably in SD anyway.

But I set up a program to record it tonight, so I'll check it out if all goes well.

- Tom

Tom, when you get a chance to watch The Days, tell me if you don't notice how jittery the camera movement is. It is even more prevalent on the sd feed. The thing the producers are trying to do with the camera movement makes me a bit quizzy.

Well I watched some of The Days tonight. I thought the picture usually looked decent except when it was dark at the beginning. That show has some clever dialog but I just can't really seem to get into it. Not sure why.

The jerkiness I saw was similar to when they first started showing Las Vegas. It is generally not a good idea to wave the camera around rapidly when you have fast shutter speeds (little motion blur) and a large enough depth of field that the background is in focus. They did that a lot but I'm not sure whether it was intentional.

I also captured some of it to check out the bit rates. The following info is part of a bbdmux report of a few minutes of the show.

MPEG Transport Packets = 8321792
PID 0x0000, Program Association Table packets = 1613, total bytes = 296792
PID 0x0010, Other packets = 1613, total bytes = 296792
PID 0x0011, Video stream 0 packets = 6018445, total bytes = 1106347878
PID 0x0014, Private Stream 1 packets = 181518, total bytes = 30979032
PID 0x0020, Other packets = 1612, total bytes = 296608
PID 0x0021, Video stream 0 packets = 976802, total bytes = 179337476
PID 0x0024, Private Stream 1 packets = 181518, total bytes = 30979032
PID 0x1FFF, Null packets = 958671, total bytes = 176395464

So out of 8321792 total packets, 6018445 or 72.3% of them were in the larger video stream. But 72.3% of a 19.3 presumed total stream would be 13.9 mbps for The Days.

There were only 976802 of 8321792 packets (11.7%) in the smaller stream so the new-snow must be getting a video bit rate of only about 2.27 mbps. That's maybe a bit on the low side for an SDTV sub-channel but I of course approve since it kept The Days looking better. ;)

I notice they are also holding back enough null packets for maybe another SD channel since the nulls (958671) are almost as much as the video used for the news.

- Tom

I wonder when/if Comcast is going to add a station for Fox in HD. I haven't seen anything. I just wish they would add that and Discovery HD in the next few weeks. That way we know we are going to see the NFL on Fox in HD.

If we could just get Comcast or Voom to add the NFL ticket I would be one happy camper. PS, I know Direct TV has the contract thru next year. But one can wish.

I can get Fox just fine OTA anyway. Since the digital station that gives me problems is WB I'd really like to see Comcast add that one so I could watch Smallville in HD.

UPN would be nice too. I wonder if they would be allowed to add UPN/HD somehow even without a local affiliate?

- Tom

What is up with the stations not starting shows in wide-screen? After one or two commercial breaks they do it. Is there some guy supposed to flip a manual switch and he gets distracted by a phone call from his girlfriend?

I'm referring to Fox and WB, since there are no new HD shows on the others during the summer.

Originally posted by grittree
What is up with the stations not starting shows in wide-screen? After one or two commercial breaks they do it. Is there some guy supposed to flip a manual switch and he gets distracted by a phone call from his girlfriend?

I'm referring to Fox and WB, since there are no new HD shows on the others during the summer.

10 minutes into Northshore last night on Fox, I had to call WAWS to get them "flip" the switch. I gave them 10 minutes to see if they could figure out that the show wasn't in WS.

Our Fox is definitely broadcasting in 720p. I know for sure because my STB has native mode and my TV cannot display 720p. I'm not sure if they are DD 5.1 ready.

Originally posted by taichinanda
Our Fox is definitely broadcasting in 720p. I know for sure because my STB has native mode and my TV cannot display 720p. I'm not sure if they are DD 5.1 ready.

It is upconverted 720p. The DD 5.1 and true 720p will not come through until the splicer goes live on Sept 12. Testing actually begun yesterday for the stations (ours included) that have the splicer installed but viewers will not see the test.

Is fox going to be added to a HD channel on Comcast?

Don,

I noticed tonight that at about 9:00pm that my Samsung TS360 somehow loaded the guide data for 17-1 and that is the only local digital it that for. When I put the rec on 17-1, there was no sound. I went into the menu pressed the clear button the zipcode OTA guide data menu eventhough nothing was there. Once I did that the sound game back and the guide data was still there. As you said earlier, the firmware on the rec is fu*ked up. Oh well it works and that is the important part.

"The DD 5.1 and true 720p will not come through until the splicer goes live on Sept 12. Testing actually begun yesterday for the stations (ours included) that have the splicer installed but viewers will not see the test."

Did you get that somewhere on the net or did Jerry feed you that info? Last I saw here, Jerry was... a bit evasive and non-specific regarding the "SPLICER" equipment. Nice to hear it is on the way in time for NFL season.

Originally posted by cschaul
Is fox going to be added to a HD channel on Comcast?

I sent Comcast a message last week asking that question and when do we see Discovery Theater HD. Got back a boiler plate message saying BS. I fired back another message. Got a different boiler plate answer but still no direct answer. Fired another message to them asking for my questions to be elevated to someone "in the Know". No reply back yet. Suggest others request answers, maybe the squeaky wheel approach will get results.

Originally posted by Ross Moody
I sent Comcast a message last week asking that question and when do we see Discovery Theater HD. Got back a boiler plate message saying BS. I fired back another message. Got a different boiler plate answer but still no direct answer. Fired another message to them asking for my questions to be elevated to someone "in the Know". No reply back yet. Suggest others request answers, maybe the squeaky wheel approach will get results.

gimme the address to send to.

http://www.comcast.com/ContactUs/customerservice.asp

Originally posted by Don Landis
"The DD 5.1 and true 720p will not come through until the splicer goes live on Sept 12. Testing actually begun yesterday for the stations (ours included) that have the splicer installed but viewers will not see the test."

Did you get that somewhere on the net or did Jerry feed you that info? Last I saw here, Jerry was... a bit evasive and non-specific regarding the "SPLICER" equipment. Nice to hear it is on the way in time for NFL season.

Don, I actually got that from a post by a member (Cpanther95). He posted in our Jax local thread last week or the week before last about the splicer install at WAWS. He wanted to know if someone in our area was able to see the short test loop (Rams v Pats in the Superbowl) that is done when the splicer is installed. He also has created this thread over in the programming forum concerning the FOX splicer install, FOX HD Splicer Install (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409554). On the first page of the link is a list of cities that have the splicer installed.

CPANTHER95 explains on the second or third to last page of the link above that he knows someone that works for Thompson (install company) and they told him that the install for Jax was recently completed. That is how he got the updates for the other cities. Also, Foxeng, a Fox engineer for the Fox affil in Greensborogh(?) NC posted on the last page of the post above that Fox testing for the affils that have the splicer installed began on the 2nd of Aug. Foxeng also pointed out that the splicer goes live on Sept. 12.

Anyone else see the thread in the Programming section that the WB will be increasing its HD content for the fall....and starting 5.1 surround with the broadcast of Lord of the Rings, Fellowship of the Rings? Now, if only our local station.....hey...it could happen. PBS is now, and soon Fox will be 5.1...so maybe by November.....????

Peter, I was just reading that and thought I need to contact George over at WB and ask about my reception issues in Orange Park - from what I have read and seen the issue is their method of signal distribution.

I would not hold my breath on WB here in Jax having the ability to pass DD, you have to remember that FOX will be passing the 5.1 signal from the network and the local doesn't need a DD encoder/decoder or whatever equipment is needed. Also, PBS passes DD the same way from what I have read. I will be asking George about this to though, I really would like to get "all" the channels I can in Jax.

My Samsung T165 now remaps channel 10 to 25-1. WJXX must be transmitting correct PSIP . WTLV is now the only one without PSIP.

Originally posted by taichinanda
My Samsung T165 now remaps channel 10 to 25-1. WJXX must be transmitting correct PSIP . WTLV is now the only one without PSIP.

Yeh, my TS 360 remapped to 25-1 last night.

It's one of the better boilerplate replies I've seen.::

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for contacting Comcast Cable regarding the addition of WAWS-DT
and WJWB-DT to the Comcast channel lineup. Currently these channels are
not available for your area.

We are currently working to provide as many high definition channel
broadcasters as possible. Here are some of the factors involved with
expanding our high definition lineup:

-the negotiation and contract process required to obtain the rights to
carry a specific high definition broadcast.

-the increased bandwidth resources that is required

-the relatively low subscribership (currently only a small minority of
customers have high definition compatible television sets)

We have forwarded your comments to the appropriate members of our
development and marketing teams for further review and action.

We take all requests for new networks very seriously, and we carefully
consider the overall impact of adding each network. While we cannot
honor every request, we do take each request into consideration in
planning future changes to our HD line-up.

We appreciate your channel requests. We hope to expand our high
definition channel lineup as fast as we can. Unfortunately we are unable
to provide specific details regarding the launch of new channels at this
time, please keep an eye on your monthly billing statement as the
announcement of any channel additions will appear on those statements.

You can also sign up for our HDTV newsletter at the following URL:
www.comcast-ne.com/hdtv.html

Thank you for your patronage.


Sincerely,

Marcos
Comcast Customer Care Specialist

that is the same message I got back. My interpretation of it is that our area doesnt have enough HD subscribers to make us a priority...

I also noticed that 25.1 came back (HD TIvo). I am also getting 10.1 and 10.2

This is great, now all of my season passes will work.

John Morgis

Originally posted by sikoniko
that is the same message I got back. My interpretation of it is that our area doesnt have enough HD subscribers to make us a priority...

That too, but alot of areas don't have alot of hd subs in comparison to SD subs. He is also right about the bandwidth issue. You can't add something if you don't have the room. All the cable cos are concerned about are getting you the "Big 3" hd locals (ABC, NBC and CBS). Also, look at how many cable cos around the country that carry the WB and Fox affils. It is a very small number and varies by region so don't feel bad. The cable co in Phoenix also doesn't carry the WB and Fox so it's not just here. I remember a thread in the programming forum a couple of months back that identified the areas where cable cos carry the WB and Fox and it sure as hell was alot of companies that did. The way I read the response is that they ain't planning on carrying any of those channels anytime soon. :rolleyes:

by the way I wrote George Birnbaum over at the WB about reception issues I was having and that some of us are having in Orange Park area - below is his response.

Jeff,

I appreciate your efforts and research, however the "predicted" pattern of our broadcast antenna submitted for license purposes has little if nothing to do with the reception problem you are experiencing. The fact that your signal strength measurements varies on your receiver lends me to believe that there is something such as a tree or building causing your symptom.

We are broadcasting low power DTV, but based on both the predicted and measured signals throughout the viewing area (including OP) you should be able to receive us without trouble.

Be that as it may, we will begin construction on a full-power transmitter and transmission system in July of next year. This project will be completed by spring of 2006.

George Birnbaum

Yippee, we got v7.15 now on the 6208s.

We are broadcasting low power DTV, but based on both the predicted and measured signals throughout the viewing area (including OP) you should be able to receive us without trouble.

Be that as it may, we will begin construction on a full-power transmitter and transmission system in July of next year. This project will be completed by spring of 2006.
[/B]

With that being said, and I am very ignorant on how this works, could comcast display this channel in hd or would it need wb to have the full-power transmitter in place first?

Comcast and WB's OTA transmitter have nothing to do with each other. The link to Comcast most likely is either fiber or direct microwave link. I'd bet fiber but could be wrong.


John- Thanks for the heads up on the PSIP on WJXX. I haven't noticed as I've been dinking around with the 921 the last couple of days. I will rescan the 921 today to see what it does with the PSIP. I should also ask Bill for an update.

WTLV is also sending PSIP. channel 13 is remapped correctly to 12-1 on my OTA-only STB.

I live in Gainesville and can occasionally pick up WTLV. I also have it mamped correctly on my RCA DTC-100 as 12.1. 15 minutes ago I was checking my signal strength, and was getting a low 22-24 reading. Right before my eyes the PSIP letters disappeared from the antenna guide, signal dropped to 0 and the channel changed from 12.1 to 12 digital. Can anyone explain that one?

I can confirm PSIP on 12.1 25.1 and 25.2 here too. :)

I'll have to send Bill Schneider a big thank you.

OK, so does anyone have any comments for my situation here in Orange Park with the WB, George's answer basically is that a tree/building is blocking my signal, but that doesn't fly with me considering I am pegged at 100 on all other digital stations here in Jax????

Well, I probably have a tree blocking my signal too. But at only 5-6 miles due East of the tower I'd hope to get decent reception like I do from all of the other towers in the same direction. But I don't.

- Tom

I don't believe that channel 34 frequency, trees is a big issue either.

Jeff- give us a refresher on your receiving specs, model number, antenna and antenna installation, feed line, any preamps, etc. Let me see if anything you tell me sticks out. PM me your exact address too. I want to plot your reception path.

FWIW- I shoot through trees too at the antenna, 80 ft to the south, in the middle of the street, I can see the towers in plain sight. All my signals on 5 receivers tested are solid. Including the HDTIVO where I did have to tweak the signals to a narrow range of level. Tom, you should have solid signal too with an antenna in the clear (roof mount not in the attic) but anyone who has an antenna encased within a building- all bets are off.

Tom, you should have solid signal too with an antenna in the clear (roof mount not in the attic) but anyone who has an antenna encased within a building- all bets are off.

Yeah, I know. ;)

But I'm still usiing a UHF only outdoor antenna model but mounted on a 13' mast in my living room. It was worse when I moved it to the attic. I actually do have a rotor for it which I brought from Detroit but it's not needed since the direction that gives the best WB reception is also fine for my other channels. I'll maybe get around to "roofing" it someday.

- Tom

edit: But I keep hoping Comcast will add WB/HD and then I won't have to deal with that.

Originally posted by Don Landis
I don't believe that channel 34 frequency, trees is a big issue either.

Jeff- give us a refresher on your receiving specs, model number, antenna and antenna installation, feed line, any preamps, etc. Let me see if anything you tell me sticks out. PM me your exact address too. I want to plot your reception path.

FWIW- I shoot through trees too at the antenna, 80 ft to the south, in the middle of the street, I can see the towers in plain sight. All my signals on 5 receivers tested are solid. Including the HDTIVO where I did have to tweak the signals to a narrow range of level. Tom, you should have solid signal too with an antenna in the clear (roof mount not in the attic) but anyone who has an antenna encased within a building- all bets are off.

Don, I am using a Hughe E-86 clone (Mits. HD 4/5) with a 60" UHF/VHF antenna (purchased from Home depot) on a 40' mast outside my house, I do have trees (but that doesn't affect all the other channels) my RG-6 cable from my antenna travels approximately 45 feet down the pole to a diplexor and then that cable runs approx. 80-90 feet to my TV where the Mits. diplexor is utilized.

I will PM you my address but if you have the capabilities here are my coordinates:
-81.72336
30.15454

No Preamps, attenuators or anything else.

Tom- do yourself an educational favor- Run a test. Take the UHF antenna outside and strap it up as high as you can, in the clear aimed west from your location and check your signals. You may find the answer to your trouble.


Jeff- Got it.

I also went back to review if you ever did describe your exact signals relative to each other on a meter reading. I didn't see any but did review where we discussed my experiments when trying to get the HDTIVO to work.

Based on your antenna description I would do the following in this order if I had your situation:
1. Remove the diplexor, just temporarily and join the coax cables with F connector couplers. Try to create an isolated path from your antenna to your E86 local antenna input. If the E86 requires a sat feed to turn on the OTA tuner, then what I would do is run a hundred ft of coax from the dish to the E86 direct even if you have to temporarily and quickly do this as a test. I have done this many times and now after nearly 35 years of marriage my wife never asks if that coax is permanently going to run over the roof and through an open window and across the living room floor. :) :)
I added this as a warning that I'm not responsible for the WAF during tests.

OK now you do the testing with coax lines direct. Still no signal or weak signal?

2. Next, I would buy an antenna preamp. RAT SHACK has them but I bought mine from "Computer Source" It is a good one with UHF at 19db gain and VHF at 15db gain. Uses a single feed for both and does not require a splitter. Yopu don't have to put it up on the mast for a quick test but it will work better the closer you can get it to the antenna. You could even put it at the base of the mast for your permanent location if putting it up near the antenna is too much trouble and test indicate it works.
Take your measurements. Still no signal? Time to get a bigger antenna!

If at any point in your tests you see a strong signal but poor reception then you have another issue somewhat like I discovered with my HDTIVO and the preamp. A receiver with a very norrow range of signal quality acceptance. I added the attenuator to reduce receiver overload. Another way this can be done is with a variable gain preamp. I have seen these too but didn't try one here.


Of course the obvious stuff like connector corrosion and tiny shield frayings shorting out intermittantly on weaker signals but allowing strong signals to bust through is a given for initial inspection.

Tom- do yourself an educational favor- Run a test. Take the UHF antenna outside and strap it up as high as you can, in the clear aimed west from your location and check your signals. You may find the answer to your trouble.

Don -

Grrrrrrr. Yeah, I know. I'm just lazy. But I guess you finally shamed me into it. ;)

I didn't actually go so far as to mount a roof top antenna but I did at least run some more cable and move the antenna to the West end of the attic where the signal could go through a wall instead of 25 feet of wet slanted roof. This brought my WB signal up to what is probably an acceptable level if it stays there.

I may have partly lost WJCT in the process but I think that's on cable anyway. And if not I can still probably fine tune a bit more when/if I decide to go crawl around in a hot attic full of itchy insulation again.

Thanks for the goad, I suppose. ;) At least I should be able to watch Smallville HD now once it finally ever starts up again.

- Tom

Sounds like you went from looking at the tower with a blind fold on to looking at it with binoculars made from two wine bottles. :)
Some day you will get rid of those bottles and just look through the air.

Thanks Don, for the help, I have isolated my OTA signal and will do some more testing but basically the same result -- 100% signal strength for all stations except the WB which is at 6-17%. Anyway I will work on it more next weekend when I have time. Just doesn't make sense, but one thing I would like to check is to see if it is my receiver, I'll let you guys know

Jeff- Good thought. If you need some help let me know. I have extra receivers here, one weak one (Panny DST50) and one good senstive one (DTC-100) sitting on the shelf now, not even being used. I also have other goodies we could insert to isolate the problem root cause. Preamps, and attenuators, extra cable jumpers. We have Fox on channel 32 that is 12 Mhz away from WJWB on 34 but I am not seeing any adjacent channel AVC stuff on any of my receivers here. The wavering signal still bothers me, especially now that you switched feedlines, I assume from the base of your 40' mast to the receiver. I don't think you switched anything at the antenna.

I've never seen this but I suppose it is possible a single element on the LP antenna is not making good connection to the cross feed on the boom of the antenna. This could cause a band of frequencies to have intermittant reception sensitivity. Now I'm grasping at remote possible reasons that could generate the symptoms you are seeing.

I thought WB was transmitting a "directional" path vice omni-directional and also at a lower power, thus leading to the lower signal strength/non-reception issues, has this changed? I still rcv WB at 6% on my hughes E 86, but I am in Georgia using a 10' radio shack ant on a 25' mast.
Jamie

Why isn't NFL in HD tonight? It said ABC HD!!!! Someone call :)

Originally posted by Phod
Why isn't NFL in HD tonight? It said ABC HD!!!! Someone call :)

It is. It took about 10 minutes but it's there.

It seems like it takes them a second to switch it to HD back from commercials (usually long breaks like at quarter changes). Was it like this last year?

Is there a number to call to annoy them? I don't mind being that person ;)

anyone have any idea if comcast will show the olympics in hd?

p.s. I hope everyone is safe from charley tonight and tomorrow.

They should be on ch176. NBC http://www.nbcolympics.com/tvlistings/5022020/detail.html
says tonight 9-1. The program guides, yahoo, titan, tribune, all say 8-12.

The games and opening ceramonies look great. I just wish WTLV-DT had a better bug. It is to bright, it would be nice if it was faded back.

I caught the 8-9 segment before the opening ceremonies and it brought back an amazing memory. In 2002, I had just gotten the Mitsubishi HDTV in time for the Winter Olympics and since Ch 12 was the ONLY station broadcasting HD, that became the source of my "addiction". We have come very far in only 2 years!

What did surprise me, though, was that watching the skating segments how few motion artifacts there were.

If you have D*, channel 84 is active now and showing the opening ceremonies in 5.1 surround.

Thanks Peter, it looks like NBC is broadcasting same feed, well D* is broadcasting the same NBC feed

Yes, Peter thanks. DTV feed looks good.

Who has a PVR for HDTV in Jacksonville?

Who has an HDTIVO in Jacksonville TV market?


Who Has a DVR-921 in Jacksonville TV Market?


Only interested in the HDTV versions of PVR's as I need some information from you for some tests.

Thanks.

Anyone with VOOM get the HD feed for the Oly?
I am getting the Direct TV feed and OTA, but I was under the impression I was also going to be getting it on VOOM.
THanks
Jamie

Don, I have the Comcast DVR - 6208, I really like it. Never had a Tivo. Does a great job on HD stuff. Watched Seabiscuit today that I had recorded.

Originally posted by Gator99
Thanks Peter, it looks like NBC is broadcasting same feed, well D* is broadcasting the same NBC feed

Im on Dtv, is it just me or is the NBC HD feed just looping the opening ceremonies while DTV NBC is showing the synchronized diving comp? I even checked DTV 84 and they are also looping the opening ceremonies, are there no sports in hd for the game?

Don, I have the Comcast DVR - 6208, I really like it. Never had a Tivo. Does a great job on HD stuff. Watched Seabiscuit today that I had recorded.

This week I received a Comcast email saying that DVR is now available in my area if I want one. I'm already paying $10 for the HDTV box but I could exchange that for the (HD)DVR for about another $10/mo.

I pretty much love my analog Tivo but would like to also "Tivo" HD. Is the consensus that the Comcast DVR is pretty much worth it?

- Tom

As I mentioned I have never owned a Tivo. I like the box and is easy to use and goes a great job on recording HD stuff, the reason I got it.

The 6412, the dual tuner with the 120GB is going to come out later this fall and I will upgrade again when that comes out. It is an extra $10.00 for the DVR box but worth it to me.

Biggstuu,

D* ch. 84 and 12-1 are broadcasting a 1 day delay, 8 hour HD loop of the Olympics that runs 3 times in a 24 hour period. Ch 12 (analog) is carrying the current day's events.

Note: not all the events will be shown in HD. It is a strange system, but it does give some HD coverage that is run continously in case you wanted to show some friends the potential of HD.

Originally posted by petergaryr
If you have D*, channel 84 is active now and showing the opening ceremonies in 5.1 surround.

Channel 84 is not available on my receiver. Jax WTLV is not NBC O&O. How come you guys can receive it ?

Jaime-
Sorry, I thought I answered your question but the post must not have taken???: I believe VOOM has the Olympics on channels 594, 593, and 321. BUT, I don't sub to the top all channels package so I just get the black screen with a message to call to upgrade. I had heard that some people have done that and still can't get the Olympics due to the community rights problem or some such nonsense. I don't know what's fact of fiction but do know that Rights to air was crontrolled by NBC and your local WTLV. Hopefully, you are getting the channel fine through WTLV.

taichinanda- You may need to go into your "channels I receive" and check channel 84. Then go into your Favorites list and check that off. I had to do both before it would show up. But, not out of the dark yet. I can watch channel 84 on the TIVO live but for some reason no recording has been saved. I get the error message that it did not record due to no video present and asks me to delete the event. As a backup I recorded it using the 921 and that is fine. I also recorded it with the HDTIVO from 12-1 and that is fine, 6 hours of it! I want to do some more experimenting today but I think there may be a TIVO season pass (no duplicates) conflict that prevented me from getting the recording off of 84. Hope that is the case.

PS- Not sure you heard but I upgraded my HDTIVO with 3 external hard drives- Total of 107 hours of HD storage! :)



Differences- The only differences I see between Channel 12-1 and 84 is that 84 has DD5.1 no WTLV logo bug. PQ appears mostly the same. Channel 9425 on DishNetwork looks the same as the ch 84, maybe slightly better PQ but that could be debated.

Also, the HD versions are supposed to be 24 hour delay on the dbs providers.



-----------------------
Glad to hear others in Jax are getting the Comcast PVR now. Since I decided to go VOOM for the remainder of the year, I will not be jumping on the Comcast bandwagon. I continue to just have Comcast analog since that is a perk. Seems that Comcast cost is quite high on these HD PVR's.

Don,
I had to restart my Tivo for channel 84 to show up in the channel list. WTLV PQ is a little bit brighter and sharper (comparing gymnasts' white costumes).

I thought of upgrading HD as well but afraid the D* proctection plan might void. Is the cost of 3 external HD the same as that of a new HDTivo ? I don't have space problem, just might need to record 4 pgms at the same time

Originally posted by Don Landis
Who has a PVR for HDTV in Jacksonville?



I have the Comcast 6208 HD-DVR.

I'm curious if the D* subs in Jax have had the same experience I had with dropouts during storms. I tried D* for a year before switching back to Comcast because of weather-related reception problems. Most of these lasted only a minute or two, but there were a few that lasted even longer. There were also a number of times I had to hard reset the box after a storm.

I would really like to consider going back to D* particularly if they add HD content this fall. However, I'm concerned I'll be going back to the same reception issues. I haven't had any weather problems with Comcast in the past year.

Originally posted by petergaryr
Biggstuu,

D* ch. 84 and 12-1 are broadcasting a 1 day delay, 8 hour HD loop of the Olympics that runs 3 times in a 24 hour period. Ch 12 (analog) is carrying the current day's events.

Note: not all the events will be shown in HD. It is a strange system, but it does give some HD coverage that is run continously in case you wanted to show some friends the potential of HD.

thanks just seems like a wasted effort compared to like nfl games in hd, same broadcast team, better images, i watched the synch diving on sd and then this morning on HD and it was like night day, and i'm not taking about the images, im talking shot angles, broadcast teams, just the whole presentation stank while being visually stunning. IMHO its really a wasted effort.

Is anybody getting DD5.1 of the olympics? Just stereo here both OTA and comcrap.

Only on D* and probably the other Satelite providers, here is Jacksonville our NBC affiliate doe NOT have the proper equipment for DD 5.1

Thanks Gator. No thanks to the owners of WTLV.

Rain fade on DirecTV has been pretty rare for me in the past year compared to 3-4 years ago as DirecTV has switched to mostly higher powered satellites. However, it is not non-existent. Anytime I get a heavy thunderstorm with heavy downpour I will lose the signal for the usual 45 minutes on and off. It rarely goes out and stays that way for an hour or so like it used to.

The 3 hard drive system consists of the original and two new drives connected to cables that feed outside the box for easy excahnge.
I didn't consider the second HDTIVO to have 4 more tuners. First of All I do have the 921 for those rare times I have decided to record more than 2 sat channels at the same time. Even if I didn't have the second sat PVR, I would think twice about spending the extra $$$ for the HDTIVO as well as the extra $4.99 a month for the service fee plus the $5 for the extra D* receiver. Additional storage capacity, was the right way for me to go. Actually, I can use this setup as an archive system for permanent storage. IT only takes about 5 minutes to switch hard drives to watch a movie on a different drive. Most of that time is spent rebooting. It's actually faster than setting up my 169Time DVHS tape system for playing a movie.

I noticed something while watching the PGA Championship in HD on CBS--NO big, ugly LOGO! I switched to NBC for a few minutes of Olympics coverage and what is there--the big, ugly LOGO.

WTLV, make the bug smaller and less obtrusive. Non-existent would be even better.

HDTIVO users- Due to name based recording conflicts it appears to be very difficult to execute a channel 84 Olympics recording as it wants to default to channel 12-1. No problem except that channel 84 is in DD5.1 and no WTLV logo. In addition the, TIVO seems to want to record it to 6 hour default times. Have any HDTIVO users figgured out how to record this from DirecTV ch 84 and not channel 12-1?
I found two ways here. the first one is easy but not desirable. I remove channelk 12-1 from channels I receive. Second is to set up a manual timer. I have not tested either but they should work. Not sure if the TIVO will record continuously beyond 6 hours. I believe the Ch 84 cycles in 8 hours.
Any other ideas?

Originally posted by Don Landis
Rain fade on DirecTV has been pretty rare for me in the past year compared to 3-4 years ago as DirecTV has switched to mostly higher powered satellites. However, it is not non-existent. Anytime I get a heavy thunderstorm with heavy downpour I will lose the signal for the usual 45 minutes on and off. It rarely goes out and stays that way for an hour or so like it used to.



That's great to hear if there have been improvements from a couple of years ago. What about HD vs. SD signals? Does the weather affect each equally?

Program descriptions on 84 are all the same so season passes will not work. Manual recording is the only option.
I set up 4 x 2-hour recordings from 4am.

Yes, it affects HD and SD channels about the same because the angle of reception is about the same for all 3 birds. With DishNetwork, we had that 61.5 dish where you could be aiminmg about 90 degrees from the other birds meaning that with Florida weather, you could be shooting through a rain cloud on one and not the other. But now that most HD is on the Dish500 119 and 110 it has about the same rain fade conditions as well. Now I have VOOM on 61.5 so I have found that when I lose both D* and E*, I still sometimes get VOOM. It's all in where those rain cludes are.


Oh, I spoke to people at VOOM today and VOOM did not get permission from NBC for airing the HD Olympics in the Jacksonville Market. Had nothing to do with WTLV. NBC did grant D* and E* permission. No reason why was given. Voom said if you didn't like it send your complaint in to NBC as they tried to get all markets approved for channels 321 and VOOM denied the request.

taichinanda
"I set up 4 x 2-hour recordings from 4am."


Have you found that 4 AM is the beginning of the daily events broadcast? I know it is to be 24 hour delay but does 4AM begin the 8 hour segment?

Yes, 4am is the start.
http://nbcolympics.zap2it.com/tv/grid.jsp?state=1&from=1092628800000&stations=11888_16300_10139_11207_10057_10239_20459_&station_id=20459&zone=-5_1&genre=-1

Don -- I also have a HDtivo (one of the early ones, without the channel logos.)

--Bill

taichinanda-

Cool! I see my 921's E* channel 9425 breaks up the Olympics into 6 4 hour segments each day in the guide and it starts at 4AM as a part 1 with the remainder from 8AM to noon. I set my HDTIVO for those breaks as a two show segment.

Thanks, Bill. I have the one with the logos but those logos are not present on the hard drive upgrade. Haven't missed them.


Bill Schneider has received some complaints from owners of DishNetwork's 811 and some MItsubishi HDTV's not receiving his channels since adding PSIP. Any of you who have either of these care to offer whether you have had any problems with WTLV or WJXX 1 and 2 since adding PSIP? Did you have to do a rescan of channels or receiver reset to make it work?

I have had the MyHD120 card for almost a year - Love it! Last week for some reason it stopped being able to playback Local NBC recordings (13 A.K.A. 12-1). I can watch NBC fine live & record and playback other channels fine but not NBC. For the tonight Show I get a .TP file which is approximately the right size. On playback it is black screen. no audio.

I have been time shifting & replaying the NBC Tonight show on a regular basis.

It acts as if Jax-NBC has changed their transport stream recently. Has it?

You can FF or pause the "recording" normally just that there is no vid or sound.

If I open the "blank playing" NBC .tp file with the HDTV to MPEG2 software I can see the video - So I indeed know that the 120 card is recording the broadcast - just not playing it back correctly

I DID read thu/search quite a number of old posts and one fix to what sounded like my problem is to edit each of the .tp files and change the front end structure - the PIDs I guess. Bit over my head frankly.

Anyway has someone written a piece of software that patches the offending .TP file automatically?

I have heard of other local affiliates in other parts of the country generating a "non-standard mpeg" transport stream. Any Techo-savvy engineers have any thoughts?

Thanks!

Hd_Hobbit

"I will use the power of the one ring to get my HDTV"

Strange. I have not had anything I wanted to record on NBC for awhile now so I might not have noticed it even if it had changed. I have a HiDTV and a Fusion F3Q card in a couple different PC's so I'll try a short recording and report back.

But if you have a reasonably fast computer you might just try software playback using something like WinDVD or Videolan or similar. There are a few threads about that in the HTPC forum here.

Also I seem to remember comments about an increasing number of stations using streams that had one of the control fields out of order, though I though those were mostly PBS. Very hazy since I haven't seen the problem myself. But I think someone did write a program for one of the California stations, called something like FixWxxx where the xxx was the station call sign.

If all else fails you might post in the MyHD support thread, in HTPC.

- Tom

update: I just recorded a few minutes of the NBC HD Olympics on my HiDTV card and it seems to play just fine.

"It acts as if Jax-NBC has changed their transport stream recently. Has it?

"

Within the past 30 days or so, Gannett has added PSIP to both channels WTLV DT and WJXX DT. In addition, they added a second subchannel to WJXX for ABC's all newsnow channel.

Why don't you try to record the TS and play it back from the stations ABC channel WJXX DT. See if the problem carries over to the other channel too.

Do you guys know if any of the locals, other than FOX will support 5.1 anytime soon, if at all.

PBS has an occasional 5.1 broadcast (mostly Soundstage). Other than that, I don't believe the other stations have any current plans to upgrade. The usual answer is that it is expensive and the HD audience is not large enough to justify the cost.

Of course, I am ancient enough to remember that same argument being used with the introduction of a technology called "color" tv: if more people owned color sets, we'd broadcast more in color. If they'd broadcast more shows in color, I'd buy a color tv.

From Don Landis:
_______
Within the past 30 days or so, Gannett has added PSIP to both channels WTLV DT and WJXX DT. In addition, they added a second subchannel to WJXX for ABC's all newsnow channel.

Why don't you try to record the TS and play it back from the stations ABC channel WJXX DT. See if the problem carries over to the other channel too.
----------

Thanks Don - YOU ARE RIGHT!

ABC has crapped out too. For my sanity I checked all record & playback just now.

OTA PBS, WB & CBS all record & play fine on the HD capture card (MyHd120)

NBC & ABC create the file, and go thu all the motions but when played back are blank & w/o audio. ABC & NBC are FINE watching live.

Using other playback software will only let me view the recording on the PC monitor and not the HDTV screen. To get it to the HDTV it must be playable on the MyHD card.

The "new" ABC & NBC transport stream obviously has someting the MyHD card don't like :rolleyes:

Cliff Watson at the MyHD forum has been sent a 5meg snippit of the recording to check out.

Thanks Don!

Now I won't spend needless time trying to fix someting that needs a software update (that or a more "conventional" ABC NBC mpeg stream from Gannett)

HD_Hobbit

"What no HD! That is not good for the Shire!"

The abc & nbc are messed up with the Fusion card also. Same as MyHD.
No problem with firewire out of a cable box. Don't have a T165 to see if that works.

Are the HDTivos messed up too?

Both the 921 and the HDTIVO work fine with these two Gannett signals.

I would suggest you contact the card makers and see if they have run into this before. It is also possible, even probable that Bill Schneider has something not quite right with the PSIP generator data tables. Otherwise why would the other stations work fine and some receivers fail with Gannett's signal. I will pass along your reports. Bill may be in for some head scratching to see if his PSIP descriptors are properly configured.
I would like to remind you that if you think using the consumer stuff is complicated, the broadcast transmission end is a thousand times more complex.

Thanks for the reports. Anyone at all using a Mitsubishi HDTV?

I have a mits tv, 65" HD-ready (no built in tuner) that I use with Voom and Direct TV. I think you are looking for a tv with built in tuner though, correct?
Jamie

Looks like Comcast has added the Fox digital signal to cable. It shows up on my QAM tuner as 102-2. CBS used to be there but they moved it to 114-2. The info says it is an HD signal and has the black bars.

I'm assuming this is in preparation for the Fox HD football season beginning on Sep 12th. Way to go Comcast and Fox.

The other digital channels show on the SD cable guide in the 168-174 range, but this new channel does not yet.

Originally posted by DR Jax
Looks like Comcast has added the Fox digital signal to cable. It shows up on my QAM tuner as 102-2. CBS used to be there but they moved it to 114-2. The info says it is an HD signal and has the black bars.

I'm assuming this is in preparation for the Fox HD football season beginning on Sep 12th. Way to go Comcast and Fox.

The other digital channels show on the SD cable guide in the 168-174 range, but this new channel does not yet.

That is very good news for you folks on Comcast. Hopefully they will get you guys the WB and then you'll be complete.

Originally posted by DR Jax
Looks like Comcast has added the Fox digital signal to cable. It shows up on my QAM tuner as 102-2. CBS used to be there but they moved it to 114-2. The info says it is an HD signal and has the black bars.

I'm assuming this is in preparation for the Fox HD football season beginning on Sep 12th. Way to go Comcast and Fox.

The other digital channels show on the SD cable guide in the 168-174 range, but this new channel does not yet.

Im a little ignorant to what QAM means. Does that mean we will be getting the channel added to the service? or does it mean it is already there? I don't show it on my 6208 box. Is it on a different channel than the rest of the HD channels?

I wish they would hurry up and add discovery.

I have a QAM tuner builtin to my HDTV. I use it to view cable HD signals.
I do not need the additional HD box to view cable HD channels, although I will probably get it later on.


From the HDTV FAQ on this site:


How do current TV broadcasts and DTV compare to each other?
There are some similarities. Both use VHF and UHF broadcast frequencies, although some stations may wind up switching frequencies after the full implementation of DTV. Once the transition to digital TV is complete, TV channels 52 through 69 will be re-assigned to other services.

While analog and digital television broadcasts have a modulated carrier wave, the way that signal is modulated is quite different. Analog TV uses an amplitude-modulated (AM) signal for pictures and frequency modulation (FM) for audio, while DTV signals use digital "packets", or bursts of data, to transmit pictures and audio. Three modulation systems are currently being used for DTV:

* The United States uses Eight Level Vestigial Sideband (8VSB)

* Europe, parts of South America, and much of Asia and Australia/New Zealand use Coded

Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (COFDM). Japan has its own variation of COFDM.

* Digital cable television uses Quadrature Amplitude Modulation (QAM).

* Direct broadcast satellite services use Quadrature Phase-Shift Keying (QPSK).

Combination tuners are already appearing that can support one or more DTV modulation standards. An example would be an 8VSB / QAM tuner for off-air and cable reception, or a DirecTV / Dish tuner that supports QPSK and 8VSB.

Cool, thanks. Still not clear on the rest of my questions:

Does that mean we will be getting the channel added to box soon? or does it mean it is already there? I don't show it on my 6208 box. Is it on a different channel than the rest of the HD channels?

sikoniko, QAM is the format of transmitting/compressing HD/digital signals that Cable systems utilize, while QPSK is what D* and I believe Dish and Voom utilize.

So if you are using Comcast, you are on a QAM system.

My guess is that Fox will be on ch168. Just keep trying 165-168 until it appears or there is a newspaper story. There is a "coming soon" screen now. Good catch that it is live on 102-2 analog.

Ch 412 (NFL) was added today, but the website channel lineup still doesn't list it.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DR Jax
[B]I have a QAM tuner builtin to my HDTV. I use it to view cable HD signals.
I do not need the additional HD box to view cable HD channels, although I will probably get it later on.

Would you mind revealing your TV brand and model? I am considering a 2nd TV for the bedroom. I have Comcast and the 5100 box for my main viewing TV. For my 2nd I did not want to use a STB. All the models with "built in HD turners" that I have researched, must have only 8VSB because they require antennas to get HD. Ideally a TV with QAM/8VSB/Analog would be my choice if it exists??? I understand HBO,STARZ and other premium channels will still require a STB but I don't want them.


]

Thanks for the confirmation grittree!
------------
The abc & nbc are messed up with the Fusion card also. Same as MyHD.
No problem with firewire out of a cable box. Don't have a T165 to see if that works
------------
Cliff Watson, a MyHD120 wizard & forum guru, sent in a sample of a JaxNBC recording to the manufacturer of the MyHD120 card and got this reply:


>Here is the response I received from MIT about the test file.

"The file shows that the version number of the PAT (and PMT) packets varies
periodically, so that MyHD tries to parse a new PMT table. I think that
this prohibits the decoding of the stream."

Clearly there are errors in the table from the stations that needs to be corrected by them. The reason MyHD can decode the live TV is because like many STB devices it can detect table errors and revert to scanning for PID by reading headers. This is possible in hardware but not for file mode. Hope you can get the stations to fix there problems.

Cliff<

So there we have it. Gannett's recent addition of PSIP to ABC & NBC have caused a problem. No playback of HD recordings!

So now how do I even get the attention of a Gannett engineer? :D

Let alone explain the problem and then expect a fix.
Anyone have a "direct line" or specific email?

Thanks

HD_Hobbit

"Aww screw HDTV - I'll just stare into this big crystal ball for awhile.
Hey! Wait, what's with the giant red eye! Arrrrrgh!"

Ross, I might be wrong but I think all the sets that have an ATSC tuner tune HD from both cable & OTA. Got to check out the specs on the tuner.

Originally posted by grittree
Ross, I might be wrong but I think all the sets that have an ATSC tuner tune HD from both cable & OTA. Got to check out the specs on the tuner.

Below is description of a Samsumg TXP2670WH that has a "built-in HD tuner"

"By building in an over-the-air tuner, Samsung has provided the consumer with compatibility to many new DTV programming choices. The built-in HDTV models work with an antenna to receive free, over-the-air broadcasts of HDTV shows, sports events and movies. There is also a comfort for the consumer in knowing that their TV can tune HD signals while having the connections to support other HD sources such as a set top box and/or an up-converter DVD player." Does not sound like a cable HD tuner to me.
Also the Sony 34XBR960 has a "built-in tuner" but it requires a cable card and assuming you get Comcast to furnish the card you can get HD channels to include premiums. I did not want a cable card model. I still do not understand what a QAM tuner is. It must come in a lot of flavors. Buyer beware.

HD_Hobbit- I passed a copy of your post along to WTLV / WJXX engineer.

Thanks for getting that information.

Ross, as I said, read the tuner specs. Took a couple of secs to find

Built-in HD/Digital Tuner (ATSC/QAM/NTSC) Tunes & processes 720p, 1080i, 480p, and 480i signals

http://www.samsungusa.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product/b2c_product_detail.jsp?prod_id=TXP2670WHX%252fXAA

Wow, under $700.

HD-Hobbit-

You'll love this: Got an answer fast!

_______________________________________________
At 5:45PM:

"Thanks for the information. I'll have to contact Tech Support at Harris and see what we have to do to either the Flexicoder or the PSIP computer to fix this.
Probably the best is to just let him know that you've contacted me and that we are trying to work on a solution."


At 6:15PM:

"Amazingly I was able to get to Tech Support today. He found that both the PSIP computer and the Flexicoder were generating PAT and PMT tables.
We corrected the settings and I'll be interested in finding out if we are ok on all the troublesome devices now.
"
_____________________________________________
Yes, that was quick indeed.

Go ahead and do some more testing tonight and let me know if anything was fixed- more broken etc. I'll be checking my 921 and TIVO as well to see if what he did changed anything there.

As of 6:30, abc is fixed, nbc is not.

Keep checking, throughout the evening.
Thanks.

To Don Landis & grittree:

WOW Hurray and Whoopie!

I must say I am AMAZED at the quick responses and the wonderful help.

As of 7:15pm ABC now works fine record and playback. NBC does not.

Don, I do appreciate forwarding my post from MIT (MyHd 120 maker) to the proper people.

I figured it would take weeks just for them to think about looking for a cause. :p

Wonderful example of feedback among uses working to get the best bug free HD possible.

Thanks, will try the NBC later and report back.

HD_Hobbit

"A round of buttered scones, flagons of ale & the Shires best pipeweed for all!"

My HDTV is a Mitsubishi WS65869, 65 inch rear projection. I can get QAM cable and OTA 8VSB with it. It has component inputs also that I can hook up a STB to.

BTW, I checked on 102-2 tonight and now it is DiscoveryHD!? I can't find a Fox feed on QAM cable from Comcast now. Might just be a test. Nice pictures.

Update from WTLV and WJXX station engineer- Dated Friday evening 8/20
___________________________________

Hello,



I made a further tweak to the PSIP system this morning. This afternoon I got an email from a viewer with a Hitachi set that would not pick us up last night but works fine now. So I feel that progress is being made.



Bill


______________________________
Hello,



I just talked to a Misubishi owner and a Dish 811 owner and after doing a channel scan they are good on NBC and ABC. So hopefully anyone still experiencing problems should just re-scan and be ok.



Thanks again for passing along the email that got me on the right track to get this fixed.



Bill

_________________________________________________

Don,

I can confirm that Jax NBC and ABC stations now both record and play back fine.

I didn't need to change anything - just get a correct signal / transport stream from the stations.

Thanks for all your help and congrats to the engineeres at Gannett/ABC/NBC for listening and responding so quickly.

Gives one the feeling that we are all beta testing this HDTV stuff - but hey if it gets me a stable/better signal and a quality picture I'm all for it.



HD_Hobbit

"HDTV, My Precious, yes my press-ious it is, yes"

Can anyone recommend an ISF calibrator in Jax? I looked on the ISF website and found two places here, but one would only calibrate equipment that you purchased from them and the other was in the middle of upgrading his equipment, so it may be a while before he can come out. I'm looking to have my new DLP TV calibrated.

Thanks in advance!

Wasn't the CBS golf (WGC-NEC Invitational) supposed to be in HD? It wasn't yesterday. I hope it is today. Jerry, please check, thanks.

can confirm that Jax NBC and ABC stations now both record and play back fine.

Is anyone around here using one of those Walmart USDTV OTA receivers? I had one for a couple days but it would hang on channel scan on 2 of the local network stations, due I think to local PSIP problems. Sorry I forget which 2 stations. I returned the box.

But if there are 2 stations suddenly with fixed PSIP then maybe the USDTV boxes now would work also.

Anybody know?

- Tom

fsunoles1, I think there are only a few local ISF people here in town, I decided on one of the calibrators over at the Hometheaterspot - Gregg Loewan, but there are many very reputable ISF calibrators over there - my vote is to check that site out and ask questions in the section for ISF calibrations/ors

pspun, the NEC was taken off the HD list by CBS, I believe, I did a search in the HDTV programming section where I thought I read this and foud this post by Ken H:

Ken H
AVS HDTV Moderator

Registered: Nov 1999
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 16539


quote:Originally posted by ridgefamus


Also, our local CBS affilate says: "... the two golf matches those weekends (Aug. 19 - 20 NEC Invitational from Firestone Country Club and the Aug. 28 - 29 Buick Championship Tournament Players Club) that were originally supposed to be in HDTV will NOT be." So we lose some and win some.

See my recent topic about this.

__________________
"Better living thru modern, expensive electronics devices"
tm



Tom, I can't help you on this, but it sure does sound like your issue might have been resolved when Don, HD_Hobbit and grittree solved some issues with PSIP at NBC/ABC

Jeff, thanks for the info.

PS

comcast came through and gave us discovery HD!!!!! ch167.

Originally posted by sikoniko
comcast came through and gave us discovery HD!!!!! ch167.

Great! Just checked it out and it looks good. Now if 168 turns out to be FOX, things are looking up.

Unrelated to HDTV but Comcast also came through, finally, and upgraded my cable modem connection so I now get a full 3.8-4.0 Mbs connect speed. No additional charge and now I don't ever see a speed hit when others on the LAN surf while I do.
I think the only way to do better than that is to put in a T-3.

Upload is still throttled back but it is double what I had before and now does a half Mbs.

Don, how did you upgrade the cable modem, just a call to comcast. Can the CSR on the phone tell if your service has been upgraded?