fljeremy - actually this is probably not an HD channel but a subchannel that will be taking bandwith from NBC's HD channel unless they turn it off during HD broadcasts.

I guess we will have to wait and see how quaility fairs after the implementation.

Actually, Jeff is partially correct. The network locals are usually sending no more than 15 Mbs bandwidth on the HD anyway so having an SD sub plus a HD primary is not such a big deal. I would imagine a graphics intense sd channel will be at most 3Mbs. If it becomes a serious concern, I'll fire off a question for Bill to comment on. He and I had quite an exchange when WTLV did the first Jacksonville HDTV during the Utah Olympics. He probably has the most HDTV experience of any local engineer when it comes to HDTV.


BTW- For any of you who are really interested in tracking radar weather, I just installed a little $15 program on my IPAQ that tracks all the NOAA radar stations giving up to the minute storm tracking anywhere in the country. I used it this past weekend in Washingtion DC to track a local storm and predict that we should NOT abort an outdoor shoot because I could see how quickly it would be moving out of the way.
The software is called Storm Chaser

http://www.pocketgear.com/software_detail.asp?id=8710

It would be nice if WTLV spent it's time and money on putting out a decent OTA signal on RF ch13. I think they are licensed at 100 watts now.

It would be nice if WTLV spent it's time and money on putting out a decent OTA signal on RF ch13. I think they are licensed at 100 watts now.


Licensed at:
WTLV- 14,000 watts with the antenna at 1004 ft. altitude.
If you are having difficulty with reception, you should consider examining your antenna installation and upgrade it for low power stations. WTLV is not the lowest DT transmission in Jacksonville but it is well below others like WTEV.

Additionally, the wattage in the transmitted signal is frequency dependent in that the lower VHF frequencies like WTLV require larger receiving antennas and lower transmitter power for same signal quality. It's just a fact of TV transmission physics. This is because antennas are wave LENGTH ( which is determined by the frequency; the lower the longer/larger) dependent and not just transmitter power dependent alone.

In effect, I believe that WTLV is our only channel that requires a VHF antenna size for DT stations. All the rest are transmitting in the UHF region. Consequently, I would suggest that a convenient improvement would be to have WTLV move it's frequency to a UHF channel but that is hardly going to happen. Thus, we are stuck with RF13 for that station. If a VHF antenna is too much to handle then cable is the only alternative.

In effect, I believe that WTLV is our only channel that requires a VHF antenna size for DT stations. All the rest are transmitting in the UHF region. Consequently, I would suggest that a convenient improvement would be to have WTLV move it's frequency to a UHF channel but that is hardly going to happen. Thus, we are stuck with RF13 for that station. If a VHF antenna is too much to handle then cable is the only alternative.

I thought ABC/WJXX was on RF channel 10 and VHF yet I don't have any problem with it with my UHF antenna in the attic.

- Tom

Right you are, Tom.. I forgot about that one. Had a brain lapse and was thinking of the remap 25.
In effect, both WTLV and WJXX are properly received with a VHF antenna. If you get good results with an improper (UHF) antenna then you are lucky. Not saying it doesn't work, but I'm just saying that if you have problems using a scissors for a hammer, the first suggestion is to use a hammer for a hammer's job.

BTW- I tried it here and I could not receive either WTLV and WJXX with the ever popular double bowtie and I live in visual of the tower, about 5 miles. I was able to get WTLV during their premiere broadcast of HDTV with a hunk of wire about a quarter wave long. Since installing a proper antenna- properly, ie not inside an attic, I get all channels rock solid, no issues what-so-ever.

I just dropped my Comcast back to limited basic again and talked to my landlord who has no problem with me installing a rooftop antenna if I do it right. So I guess I finally will.

But I'll still use scissors to pound a thumbtack if the hammer is more than 10 feet away. ;)

Can anybody recommend any good cheap local antenna installers?

- Tom

For anyone who would like to know:

I spoke with a reliable source at Comcast locally and said the next HD channel we can expect is WB and the Digital Simulcast should also be done by the end of the year.

I have had problem with the audio of 47-1 in the past couple of months. Using Dolby Pro-logic creates excessive echos from 47-1. I don't have any problem with any other channels.

Last night, my STB (Samsung SIR-T165) kept on rebooting after I switched to 47-1 from 30-1. I thought it was the STB problem. I unplugged the STB before going to bed. Today, it was doing the same thing. It just kept rebooting itself. On the SIR-T165, the "HELLO" screen was on and the "digital" and "air" lights kept turning on and off with no channel display and no signal going to the TV set. I thought it was something to do with my amplified antenna, so I kept adjusting the amplification control to see what happened. When the amplification was turned down, the 47-1 channel showed on the STB, but without sufficient signal to show any output on the TV. I changed channel at that point (changed to 7-1, the PBS station), and return the amplification to max on the antenna, and everything is working again. It works for all the other channels, but as soon as I tune to 47-1, the whole thing starts again. Does anyone have the same problem with 47-1 (with similar setup as me, using STB for over the air broadcast)?

Jerry, what was changed after Tuesday night? 47-1 was working fine Tuesday night (except the sound problem I mentioned earlier). I am at a loss to explain this. The 47-1 signal is doing some strange thing to my STB.

Just for reference....I am able to tune in 47-1 with both a Hughes E86 and DirecTV 10-250. That's not to say something didn't change....if it did, your Sammy may be more sensitive than those other boxes.

My comcast guide indicated that Soundstage should have been on last night at 11pm in high def. I saw on another forum that the concert was great in high def but we got something completely different even though our local PBS station broacast it on their regular channel (7 on comcast). What gives? I've noticed this before as well.

I just found out that I can get local HD channels from Comcast even with Basic Cable (due to being a cable modem customer, I have D****TV for normal viewing). I have gone through mutiple HD antennas with no luck in getting OTA to work consitantly so it is time to move on (wish D****TV would get those new sats in the air).

Does anyone have any feedback on the Motorola DCT 6200 boxes that Comcast is currently using.

I would like to get feedback before making the jump.

THANKS in advance for your help !!

How does that work? What would the price be? I'm paying like $10 for the basic cable just so I can get a break on the cable modem.

How does that work? What would the price be? I'm paying like $10 for the basic cable just so I can get a break on the cable modem.

I am doing the same thing, to save on my cable modem Comcast has "High-Definition Television for Comcast Basic Cable Customers". It is $9.65 a month (plus a $29.95 installation fee). From the research I have done, it appears that this is all you need if you have a HDTV that will take the Comcast decoder chip (I think they are also called QAM chips).

My HDTV does not support this (nor does my HD sat receiver, Sony SAT-HD100) so I will have to get the Motorola box (another $13.95 a month). I contacted Comcast and they will not support a purchased unit (I found a few on eBay).

Hope this helps !!

I just dropped back to only broadband + limited basic. But my F3Q PCHD card still manages to get NBC, ABC, and Fox in HD from Comcast (legally). I'm not sure what happened to CBS but it was probably the extra filters they put on the line. The card used to get it.

If you have no premium channels I don't think there is any value in a cable card. Those are only for the scrambled channels. Any QAM digital cable ready tuner or TV would probably do as good without a cable card.

- Tom

I am doing the same thing, to save on my cable modem Comcast has "High-Definition Television for Comcast Basic Cable Customers". It is $9.65 a month (plus a $29.95 installation fee). From the research I have done, it appears that this is all you need if you have a HDTV that will take the Comcast decoder chip (I think they are also called QAM chips).

My HDTV does not support this (nor does my HD sat receiver, Sony SAT-HD100) so I will have to get the Motorola box (another $13.95 a month). I contacted Comcast and they will not support a purchased unit (I found a few on eBay).

Hope this helps !!

Thanks for the info!

Yuck. I have an "old" (2002) Mitsubishi 55" RPTV with just an analog tuner, so I'd also need the box....but @$13.95 a month I can't justify the additional $167/year. I actually can get the OTA stations most of the time via a couple of antennae in the attic...I guess I'll just wait until D* does LIL HD hopefully some time next year.

petergaryr -

Yep, the extra "rent" is the killer. I have the same vintage Mitsubishi RPTV that you have (the 65" version) so it is the box or nothing.

Hopefully someone has the Motorola unit and will post an opinion.

The moto unit works just fine. I have the 6412 dual tuner with DVR it is very nice. One thing with picture quality however is that you may have to put it in Svideo to get a better picture on the analog channels. For digital and high def channels it works great.

One thing with picture quality however is that you may have to put it in Svideo to get a better picture on the analog channels. For digital and high def channels it works great.

That seems to have been the case forever on Motorola STB's. In all cases I've liked to just use the tuner in my TV or (even better) my analog Tivo rather than the Moto box for analog channels.

- Tom

I just dropped back to only broadband + limited basic. But my F3Q PCHD card still manages to get NBC, ABC, and Fox in HD from Comcast (legally). I'm not sure what happened to CBS but it was probably the extra filters they put on the line. The card used to get it.

If you have no premium channels I don't think there is any value in a cable card. Those are only for the scrambled channels. Any QAM digital cable ready tuner or TV would probably do as good without a cable card.

- Tom

I recently bought a HDTV with a QAM tuner. I am also subscribed to Comcast's expanded basic. What HD channels can I receive?

Brian

Brian - check the first page of this thread - it should have what you need, I am not sure however how up to date it is.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=321055&page=1&pp=60

Welcome aboard

Brian - check the first page of this thread - it should have what you need, I am not sure however how up to date it is.

Welcome aboard

Thanks for the welcome! :p

I have had problem with the audio of 47-1 in the past couple of months. Using Dolby Pro-logic creates excessive echos from 47-1. I don't have any problem with any other channels.

Last night, my STB (Samsung SIR-T165) kept on rebooting after I switched to 47-1 from 30-1. I thought it was the STB problem. I unplugged the STB before going to bed. Today, it was doing the same thing. It just kept rebooting itself. On the SIR-T165, the "HELLO" screen was on and the "digital" and "air" lights kept turning on and off with no channel display and no signal going to the TV set. I thought it was something to do with my amplified antenna, so I kept adjusting the amplification control to see what happened. When the amplification was turned down, the 47-1 channel showed on the STB, but without sufficient signal to show any output on the TV. I changed channel at that point (changed to 7-1, the PBS station), and return the amplification to max on the antenna, and everything is working again. It works for all the other channels, but as soon as I tune to 47-1, the whole thing starts again. Does anyone have the same problem with 47-1 (with similar setup as me, using STB for over the air broadcast)?

Jerry, what was changed after Tuesday night? 47-1 was working fine Tuesday night (except the sound problem I mentioned earlier). I am at a loss to explain this. The 47-1 signal is doing some strange thing to my STB.

I can't get 47-1 at all now on my STB (over the air). Are any of you having the same problem?

pspun

I can't get 47-1 at all now on my STB (over the air). Are any of you having the same problem?

pspun

I'm getting some occasional breakup...but the station for the most part locks.

Any news on Comcast adding new HD channels before the fall seasons starts? I would to see ESPN2 and WB added. Its too bad the Jag game is going to be blacked out tonight. I was looking forward to that.

FYI...

Comcast HSI upgraded the download speeds in Jacksonville yesterday.

Standard speed caps of 4300/384 were bumped up to 6600/384

Speed package of 6600/768 was upgraded to 8800/768

Strange. My download speed still appears to be capped at 4 mbps.

- Tom

Taken from the Comcast forums...

New Service/Price Chart
With these new speed offerings, Comcast will be offering the High-Speed Internet at the following tiers of service.

If you currently do not subscribe to any Comcast Cable TV or Comcast Phone services, you will have the following options for HSI available to you:

Down Up
(Mbps) (kbps) Price
4 384 $57.95
6 384 $67.95
8 768 $77.95



If you currently subscribe only to Comcast Digital Voice or Comcast Digital Phone, the following HSI options are available to you:

Down Up
(Mbps) (kbps) Price
4 384 $42.95
6 384 $52.95
8 768 $62.95



If you currently subscribe to any Comcast Cable TV service, the following HSI options are available to you:

Down Up
(Mbps) (kbps) Price
6 384 $42.95
8 768 $52.95

Hmmm, I currently only subscribe to limited basic cable. Maybe they don't count that.

- Tom

While the speeds we get in Jacksonville are far better than most of the nation, I still wish Comcast actually delivered what they claim.

I have a broadband business account. Here is what it is supposed to have as of last August 2004:

Dedicated AE for all issues.
Today, I have to call through the consumer CSR system!


Basic analog cable TV
I still get that and it's good quality.

HSI at 6 down and 512 up
I actually get 4.4 down and 384 up. 24/7 and it never varies.

ISP service- unlimited bandwidth with DHCP

e-mail that caps at 10 mb capacity for each e-mail account.
All my e-mails are rejected if the attachments are over 3 mb now. It was rejected at 8Mb last August 2004. Trouble ticket filed on this 3 weeks ago and it still is not corrected!


They claim that I get 24 hour satisfaction on internet down time. Two things- It is reliable enough that I have not experienced an outage for more than a few hours 4 to 5 times in the last year so I don't know if they would credit my account if an extended outage happened or not. Second, an outage of a feature as claimed does not count as you will see by the cases stated.

Control panel that allows for account tracking as well as for many other features.
This stopped working last spring. I filed a trouble ticket and they got it working again just this week!

Web hosting of my http://www.scubatech.com domain name. The capacity is to be 125Mb disk space, unlimited bandwidth.


Cost- $139.90 per month


While I wish Comcast actually delivered what they claim in their contract and advertising, I have to admit that Comcast does offer the best reliability of any of the other services I have had overall as well as comparing to others who have Bell South DSL etc.. If I do not use Comcast what better deal would I have elsewhere? And, FYI- I am not elgible to have a consumer account at this address since it is a business. That's what they tell me now. Not that that would resolve anything but I just thought I would add that fact.


I could improve my cost of the domain hosting of http://www.scubatech.com by using my other hosting service in NYC that is much better cost, relatively speaking. Then if I could, I'd switch to the 8/784 account that is claimed to be for 77.95 a month and still save money but Comcast won't do that and I don't trust that the consumer speeds would be guaranteed. They don't do that, so they say.

I need some help for my son who lives in St Augustine. He has cable but would like to get ota stations from Jacksonville, what antenna should he get and also what kind of ota receiver should he also buy? I hope this is the right forum for this question, I 'm trying to help him out. I live in Ga and plan on visiting next month so I'd like to have this information when I get down there. THANKS

HSI at 6 down and 512 up
I actually get 4.4 down and 384 up. 24/7 and it never varies.

Sorry to hear. With those numbers it sounds like you may be on the wrong config. Have you called the tech support to check?

Hello all...

Just found this forum this morning and thought I'd tap into the OTA HD knowledge you guys have here locally.

We just moved to JAX recently and we've got our first HD set on order to arrive in a few weeks. So I guess I'm a double-noob here. :D

I'm still a bit confused with the local line-up here... the whole deja-vu with "NBC" local... so.. we have two news broadcasts each evening from 10p to 11:30p, back to back? :confused:

Anyway, I've got the new Samsung HD DLP on order and I've also got D* coming out to upgrade us with a HD Tivo. I went ahead and added the OTA antenna install that they provide so I can get our JAX HD locals.

My question is, do you guys have any experience with that D* antenna and the local JAX HD? Is it not going to cut it to pull in the locals for my location? Here's what antennaweb says for my exact address:

* yellow - vhf WTLV-DT 12.1 NBC JACKSONVILLE FL 346° 11.6 13
* yellow - uhf WTEV-DT 47.1 CBS JACKSONVILLE FL 343° 12.1 19
* yellow - uhf WJXT-DT 4.1 IND JACKSONVILLE FL 346° 11.6 42
* yellow - vhf WJXX-DT 25.1 ABC ORANGE PARK FL 346° 11.6 10
* yellow - uhf WJCT-DT 7.1 PBS JACKSONVILLE FL 343° 12.5 38
* yellow - uhf WAWS-DT 30.1 FOX JACKSONVILLE FL 343° 12.5 32
* lt green - uhf WJEB-DT 59.1 TBN JACKSONVILLE FL 344° 12.1 44
* red - uhf WJWB-DT 17.1 WB JACKSONVILLE FL 344° 12.1 34


Thanks for any recommendations or advice!

Welcome to the city and to the forum :)

Those of us with D* and OTA have been through many variations of antennae and when you have the time, go back to the beginning of the thread and you will find a wealth of information and experiences.

For the "Cliff Notes" version:

It is location, location, location with OTA. We have people close to the antenna farm (located in the Hogan Rd. area) who cannot get some of the stations, people in other parts of the city who can, some who can get some, some of the time, and the list goes on.

We have tried the D* OTA antennae, dedicated roof mounts, attic mounts and indoor mounts all with varying degrees of success.

Take a look at your chart from Antennaweb. In your case, you will find the degrees varying from 343 to 346. What that has meant for me is that being off a few degrees in pointing the OTA antenna means I either get or don't get the combination of Fox (30.1) and PBS (7.1) or NBC (12.1) and ABC (25.1).

For many people, getting the WB (17.1) is a real challenge. TBN (59.1) is very low power.
As you may have guessed, we don't have an HD UPN. UPN broadcasts typically start at 11:00 PM on Fox 30 (30.1), though, unfortunately not in HD (sad news if you happen to be a Veronica Mars fan).

We'll be waiting to hear how things work out.

I need some help for my son who lives in St Augustine. He has cable but would like to get ota stations from Jacksonville, what antenna should he get and also what kind of ota receiver should he also buy? I hope this is the right forum for this question, I 'm trying to help him out. I live in Ga and plan on visiting next month so I'd like to have this information when I get down there. THANKS

A good start is http://www.antennaweb.org Plug in the address and you will get some recommendations for the type of antenna that is recommended. Be advised, though, that some of us who live in Jacksonville are sometimes OTA challenged with receiving the stations!

Congrats to our local CBS 47 for being on the ball and passing through the HD feed of the Letterman show last night.

Much appreciated! The show itself was unremarkable, but the PQ was excellent.

I am trying to decide on which HDTV antenna to get. I live in North Florida near
Jacksonville and I will need both VHF and UHF. I am fortunate that according to Antennaweb that all of my channels are in the same direction from me,to my south all between 198 and 200 degrees and about 30 miles away, (that must be as the crow flies, because its about a 50 mile drive). I live in a single story home surrounded by trees except to the south (how lucky). I have a mast that is about 12-15 feet high on the south side of my house that my folks left when we moved from OTA to cable in the 70s. Its mounted in concrete so its pretty sturdy and somehow not very rusty.I live about a mile from the beach, so corrosion can be a problem as are winds from hurricanes. I do have one channel to my north that I don't really care about. I have spoken to an "expert" at Radio Shack that seems so excited about the VU-190 and its long range ability its makes me nervous, he oversold it I guess. I really don't know whether I would need a amp or pre-amp for a cable run of 50-60 feet. My new Sony TV has a built-in HD tuner,so I don't have an external. Indoor antennas are crap from my location. I have tried several with no luck.

You are about the same distance north from the antenna farm as I am south of it in Fruit Cove. I'm using the $40 Radio Shack VU-75 XR which is supposed to be good for 75 miles.

FWIW, I can lock in all the stations. The worst part, however is finding the right aiming to get in both 30-1 and 7-1, versus 12-1 and 25-1. Only a few degrees of orientation separate them and that makes a difference for me to get/not get a signal.

I've also tried a Channel Master from Lowes for around the same price/capabilities and the results are the same so I don't think there's anything inherently good or bad about the RS design/construction.

See if RS will allow a return if it doesn't work for you.

It looks like we might not see a single Jags game in HD this year.

The only one scheduled is on ESPN vs the Bengals and it could be blacked out.

Optimists can hope we make the playoffs. Then we will see HD. And maybe a late season game or two.

I'm asking this question for my dad. Is anyone not receiving 30-1 OTA? A week ago 30-1 stop coming in on is Directv Samsung OTA reciever.

I'm asking this question for my dad. Is anyone not receiving 30-1 OTA? A week ago 30-1 stop coming in on is Directv Samsung OTA reciever.

This may have nothing to do with it, and may be specific to just my situation, however:

I'm using the DirecTV HR10-250, plus I have a Hughes e86 set up in the bedroom. Using separate attic antennae for both of these, I can pull in all OTA stations EXCEPT 32-1 (30-1). For that 1 station, I have to use a separate indoor antenna specifically aimed at that station (from my location, specifically 23 degrees).

I've heard of others using rooftop antennae that report no problems. I wish LIL HD were here!

I have finally decided to get Comcast HD. I will go pick up the HD-digital cable box from Comcast, what do I expect to get? Will I be able to get one with HDMI/DVI output, or just component outputs? Wiil it have optical digital audio output, or just coaxial audio out? Please advice, thank you.

PSPun

I suppose you will get the same 6412 model everybody gets. Both comp. and DVI.

Don't assume the DVI is better. Many of us found comp gave a better pic. Try them both if you can.

I suppose you will get the same 6412 model everybody gets. Both comp. and DVI.

Don't assume the DVI is better. Many of us found comp gave a better pic. Try them both if you can.

Thank you for the reply. I downloaded the user guide of 6412.

What's up with the Miami/FSU game - where is the HD?

It says HD on ABC.com .. someone call! or is it not in HD? WTF.

354-1212 - my phone is out can someone call? or is it not in HD?

People say it is in HD in some locations.

phod can you call, tell them to inform the control room the game is suppose to be in HD and they need to flip the switch

cool they flipped the switch

Hey everyone,

I'm in south JAX and am having a bear of a time getting the ABC (25.1) channel to come in without dropouts. Using an D* HD10-250 OTA tuner, my signal strength ranges from 70-75, but still drops to zero every minute or so. I'm guessing this is because it's a VHF channel? All the other channels are coming in with 90+ strength.

My antenna is in the attic, closest to the signal direction with only one roof layer blocking the signal. I *really* don't want to put it outside.

Here's the model -
http://www.antennasdirect.com/DB4_HDTV_antenna.html

..and lastly my coordinates from antennaweb.org
degrees-miles-freq
* yellow - vhf WTLV-DT 12.1 NBC JACKSONVILLE FL 346° 11.7 13
* yellow - uhf WTEV-DT 47.1 CBS JACKSONVILLE FL 343° 12.2 19
* yellow - uhf WJXT-DT 4.1 IND JACKSONVILLE FL 346° 11.7 42
* yellow - vhf WJXX-DT 25.1 ABC ORANGE PARK FL 346° 11.7 10
* yellow - uhf WJCT-DT 7.1 PBS JACKSONVILLE FL 343° 12.6 38
* yellow - uhf WAWS-DT 30.1 FOX JACKSONVILLE FL 343° 12.6 32
* red - uhf WJWB-DT 17.1 WB JACKSONVILLE FL 344° 12.1 34

Should I get a signal amplifier? A separate VHF antenna? I tried for several hours to align my antenna just right, but consistent 70+ signal is all I could come up with on 25-1.

Thanks for any help!

Later,
pjdavep

GO RAIDERS!!!

12.1 and 25.1 are both the two VHF stations broadcasting on 13.1 and 10.1 respectively.

If you have an attic mount (as do I), you typically lose almost 50% of the antenna's receiving ability. Also, from your location, both of those stations are at 346 degrees, with the others closer to 343 degrees. For me, slightly mis-aiming the antenna causes me to either get those stations, and lose the others or vice versa. It ihas been a matter of trial and error.

The height and angle (pitch) that you have the antenna mounted can also affect reception. I am surprised that you can get 12.1 but not 25.1 since they are at the same position. For me, I either get both or neither when the antenna is mis-aimed.

The height and angle (pitch) that you have the antenna mounted can also affect reception. I am surprised that you can get 12.1 but not 25.1 since they are at the same position. For me, I either get both or neither when the antenna is mis-aimed.

I have to assume that a slight angle (5 degrees?) upwards is desireable? How high are the output antennas?

I'm going to have to get up in the attic again this evening and give it another shot. The HD reception of the Raiders/Patsies depends on it!! :eek:

Later,
pjdavep

Unfortunately, the only answer I can give is "maybe". It is best to work with another person by the set, connected with either cell phones or a walkie talkie. When they see the picture lock and is stable, have them try the other channels to make sure you haven't lost them.

This is a complete PITA, but other than subscribing to Comcast (as many others have done) it is the only way to get the locals in HD until D* starts LIL in our area, hopefully by next year.

I wish you success!

I can confirm that. No more ESPN HD in the clear. I even re-scanned and checked every channel. Think it will come back?
...


Just got ESPN HD back, don't know if this has anything to do with my email to them early this morning asking why we don't have ESPN HD since all their print/website material includes ESPN HD as one of the basic digital channels.

PSPun

I have had problem with the audio of 47-1 in the past couple of months. Using Dolby Pro-logic creates excessive echos from 47-1. I don't have any problem with any other channels.

Last night, my STB (Samsung SIR-T165) kept on rebooting after I switched to 47-1 from 30-1. I thought it was the STB problem. I unplugged the STB before going to bed. Today, it was doing the same thing. It just kept rebooting itself. On the SIR-T165, the "HELLO" screen was on and the "digital" and "air" lights kept turning on and off with no channel display and no signal going to the TV set. I thought it was something to do with my amplified antenna, so I kept adjusting the amplification control to see what happened. When the amplification was turned down, the 47-1 channel showed on the STB, but without sufficient signal to show any output on the TV. I changed channel at that point (changed to 7-1, the PBS station), and return the amplification to max on the antenna, and everything is working again. It works for all the other channels, but as soon as I tune to 47-1, the whole thing starts again. Does anyone have the same problem with 47-1 (with similar setup as me, using STB for over the air broadcast)?

Jerry, what was changed after Tuesday night? 47-1 was working fine Tuesday night (except the sound problem I mentioned earlier). I am at a loss to explain this. The 47-1 signal is doing some strange thing to my STB.

Well I finally solve the mystery with help from AVS Forum > HDTV > HDTV Hardware. I think I will mention it here just in case any of you run into the same problem in the future. Apparently, all digital stations will include a broadcast flag to prevent illegal copying of HD content. This broadcast flag could cause problems with some digital receivers manufactured before July 1 this year (the SIR-T165 is one). In order to fix the problem, firmware for these receivers will need to be updated. However, some firmware updates could cause other problems. Below are couple of links for more details:

This is the extensive AVSForum discussion of the topic, (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=323077&page=1&pp=30) and this is the Samsung notice of firmware update. (http://product.samsung.com/stb_upgrade/)

PSPun

I have to assume that a slight angle (5 degrees?) upwards is desireable? How high are the output antennas?

I'm going to have to get up in the attic again this evening and give it another shot. The HD reception of the Raiders/Patsies depends on it!! :eek:



I finally got the antenna re-adjusted and was able to get a solid 72 signal strength for 25-1 (VHF 10). UHF 19 was next with 85 signal strength, and all the other channels come in with 90s. I watched the entire game last night in HD without any dropouts - it looked great, except for the outcome :mad:

Later,
pjdavep

Welcome to the city and to the forum :)

Those of us with D* and OTA have been through many variations of antennae and when you have the time, go back to the beginning of the thread and you will find a wealth of information and experiences.

For the "Cliff Notes" version:

It is location, location, location with OTA. We have people close to the antenna farm (located in the Hogan Rd. area) who cannot get some of the stations, people in other parts of the city who can, some who can get some, some of the time, and the list goes on.

We have tried the D* OTA antennae, dedicated roof mounts, attic mounts and indoor mounts all with varying degrees of success.

Take a look at your chart from Antennaweb. In your case, you will find the degrees varying from 343 to 346. What that has meant for me is that being off a few degrees in pointing the OTA antenna means I either get or don't get the combination of Fox (30.1) and PBS (7.1) or NBC (12.1) and ABC (25.1).

For many people, getting the WB (17.1) is a real challenge. TBN (59.1) is very low power.
As you may have guessed, we don't have an HD UPN. UPN broadcasts typically start at 11:00 PM on Fox 30 (30.1), though, unfortunately not in HD (sad news if you happen to be a Veronica Mars fan).

We'll be waiting to hear how things work out.
-----------------------

Well... The D* installer just left after installing the D* OTA on the opposite side of the house from the dish, in order to get line of site to the HD towers. He ran a coax from the wineguard to the Home Run and diplexed into an existing RG6 to the HD Tivo location, and diplexed out again from there.


Here is what I get according to the HD Tivo signal strength readings:

* yellow - vhf WTLV-DT 12.1 NBC JACKSONVILLE FL 346° 11.6 13 = 90%

* yellow - uhf WTEV-DT 47.1 CBS JACKSONVILLE FL 343° 12.1 19 = NO GOOD
Bounces from 0-70% So, no CBS HD at this point.

* yellow - uhf WJXT-DT 4.1 IND JACKSONVILLE FL 346° 11.6 42 = 80% - 88%

* yellow - vhf WJXX-DT 25.1 ABC ORANGE PARK FL 346° 11.6 10 = 90%

* yellow - uhf WJCT-DT 7.1 PBS JACKSONVILLE FL 343° 12.5 38 = 88%

* yellow - uhf WAWS-DT 30.1 FOX JACKSONVILLE FL 343° 12.5 32 = 88%

* lt green - uhf WJEB-DT 59.1 TBN JACKSONVILLE FL 344° 12.1 44 = NO GOOD 0% and never shows anything higher.

* red - uhf WJWB-DT 17.1 WB JACKSONVILLE FL 344° 12.1 34 = 68%

So, it seems like I'm out of luck for CBS, and even though WB is 'locked', I'm wondering if 68% is going to cut it in 'all conditions'.

Anyone have any ideas as to how to get CBS HD locked in? Really odd how it bounces around...

Thanks for any ideas!

Well, for what it's worth, my problem child is WAWS 30.1. I've never been able to orient the antenna to be able to lock in on it, and still get all the other stations. My bizzare solution:

I bought a Terk HDTV indoor antenna and mounted it in the garage. I have that connected to a remote control A/B switch I bought from Radio Shack. The attic antenna is of course also connected to the A/B switch. For all stations except WAWS, I can lock on them with the attic antenna. For Fox, I flip to the Terk which is specifically aimed to pick up just that one station.

This is stupid, but it works! CBS has some of the best (my opinion) HD shows, so it is worth it to pursue.

Another possibility, if you have extra cash, is to subscribe to the lowest tier of Comcast digital cable that qualifies you for their HD local channels. It isn't a perfect solution because not all locals are on Comcast yet. Check the very first post in this thread to see which ones are carried.

Hi, I have Comcast for local channels and also have a digital box to receive the HD channels. When I first subscribed to the HD channels in January, I was receiving ESPNHD and Discovery HD but now they are gone. Does this sound correct...Thanks Matt

This is stupid, but it works! CBS has some of the best (my opinion) HD shows, so it is worth it to pursue.


I've got D* coming out next Saturday to see if they can 'adjust' anything to get a better signal.

In the mean time, I posted on the Tivo Community forum and someone there suggested trying an attenuator to see if it helps at all. For $10, I'll give that a shot, but I'll hold off on upgrading to another antenna after I exhaust all my options with the D* folks.

They did install the antenna at the 'gutter' level, and I'm wondering if I let them relocate it higher on the roof whether that will help any. (I do have some tall trees about 200 yards away, so who knows.) If I do let them move it, I'll be checking to make sure they are using some kind of 'sealer' as I don't need a roof leak. :rolleyes:

We'll see what happens...

GoErs - with what you described before - you don't need anything else but to keep tweaking your antenna (left, right, up down) you have to remember 1 inch either way can make a difference.

By the way what type of OTA antenna did D* install???

GoErs - with what you described before - you don't need anything else but to keep tweaking your antenna (left, right, up down) you have to remember 1 inch either way can make a difference.

By the way what type of OTA antenna did D* install???

I just tried an attenuator, and you're right, it didn't do anything except lower my signal levels. CBS still bounced from 0-70, or 0-20 with max attenuation.

D* installed a Winegard antenna, not sure which model, but it looks like a big wing. They installed it at the 'gutter' level, so I'm wondering if they go higher on the roof whether that would help.

First I'll ask the guy to re-aim as you suggest. The last guy simply aimed using his compass, came down and saw all stations except CBS were locked, declared victory and left.

FWIW- HD signals on both games look fantastic. I was surprised that FOX is airing HD on today's Jaguar's game. DD5.1 as well. Great job. I'm also recording it on the TIVOHD for prosperity. Is this the first Jaguar's game in DD5.1?

Fox had the Jags in HD? Boy that sucks, since I believed the schedule and watched it in SD.

Well at least we played well.

I just tried an attenuator, and you're right, it didn't do anything except lower my signal levels. CBS still bounced from 0-70, or 0-20 with max attenuation.

D* installed a Winegard antenna, not sure which model, but it looks like a big wing. They installed it at the 'gutter' level, so I'm wondering if they go higher on the roof whether that would help.

First I'll ask the guy to re-aim as you suggest. The last guy simply aimed using his compass, came down and saw all stations except CBS were locked, declared victory and left.

When Jeff says 1 inch one way or the other makes a difference, he ain't kiddin'!

I have literally spent hours tweaking by minute amounts.

When Jeff says 1 inch one way or the other makes a difference, he ain't kiddin'!

I have literally spent hours tweaking by minute amounts.


OK. I'll have the guy re-aim to see what we can get...

BTW - Here is the Winegard that they installed... the cheapest one available apparently. :rolleyes:

Winegard GS1100 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=&PROD=ANWGS1100)

OK. I'll have the guy re-aim to see what we can get...

BTW - Here is the Winegard that they installed... the cheapest one available apparently. :rolleyes:

Winegard GS1100 (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?CAT=&PROD=ANWGS1100)

I looked at the specs of that antenna and see that it is bidirectional. I wonder if part of the problem could be multipath interference. I've have the greatest success with very directional antennae.

I looked at the specs of that antenna and see that it is bidirectional. I wonder if part of the problem could be multipath interference. I've have the greatest success with very directional antennae.

I'm not up on my antenna speak, but I'm assuming that the concern with the antenna being bidirectional is interference coming from sources that are 180 degrees from the HD Towers we actually are wanting? Signals bouncing back from 'behind' the intended 343-346 degree direction, correct?

It's just odd that only CBS is exhibiting this 'bouncing' behavior, while PBS and Fox, also on the 343 degree, are not.

BTW - If things don't work out with D* 'tweaking', I'll have them take back that Winegard. I wonder if this would be a better choice and if I could simply use the same mounting pole... I'm sure I could get the installer to 'leave' the mast in place.

Uni-Directional instead? (http://www.antennasdirect.com/V10_vhf_antenna.html)

Hi, I have Comcast for local channels and also have a digital box to receive the HD channels. When I first subscribed to the HD channels in January, I was receiving ESPNHD and Discovery HD but now they are gone. Does this sound correct...Thanks Matt

I have both ESPNHD and Discovery HD from my basic digital, but I can't get INHD or INHD2. All I get is "one moment please, ..." on these two channels, and nothing. Shouldn't we get these two channels also?

PSPun

Do you have digital basic or just local channels with the Motorola box that use to get the HD channels ? That is what I have. I do get both INHD channels but not Discovery and ESPNHD.

I have digital basic. I got the Motorola DCT6200 from Comcast. I guess you get whatever they happen to have in that line :mad:

I'm not up on my antenna speak, but I'm assuming that the concern with the antenna being bidirectional is interference coming from sources that are 180 degrees from the HD Towers we actually are wanting? Signals bouncing back from 'behind' the intended 343-346 degree direction, correct?

It's just odd that only CBS is exhibiting this 'bouncing' behavior, while PBS and Fox, also on the 343 degree, are not.

BTW - If things don't work out with D* 'tweaking', I'll have them take back that Winegard. I wonder if this would be a better choice and if I could simply use the same mounting pole... I'm sure I could get the installer to 'leave' the mast in place.

Uni-Directional instead? (http://www.antennasdirect.com/V10_vhf_antenna.html)

Aren't you glad you started this whole process? :rolleyes: Seriously, multipath may or may not be the issue, but yes, since all the towers are in the same relative area, that should be the only "receiving end" of the antenna. If the installer can't get the existing antenna to work, the one you suggest "may" be a better choice. Then again....

If you are bored some rainy day, you can read the saga of others who live close to the towers that have trouble picking up stations, those in some parts of the city that can't get 1 or 2 for some reason, etc, etc. Even though I say I want LIL from D*, the fact is, I would still probably more likely watch OTA since that is an uncompressed signal. Plus, there are those times of "rain fade" when I am greatful I can still get OTA.

Aren't you glad you started this whole process? :rolleyes:

No kidding... I have enough other 'hobbies', I don't want to start one around OTA antenna configurations. :eek:

GoEers - if you can get the D* installer to leave the mast - go to Home Depot/Lowes and purchase a UHF/VHF antenna - I am using a 60' one from Home Depot on a 35' mast - I live on the north side of Doctor's Lake in Orange Park and receive all channels 100% with no problems. (I use to have problems but I stop using Diplexors and ran dedicated lines from my antenna to my receivers (over 100'))

By the way I am completely surrounded by trees (over 100' tall) on my property - not that major of an issue for me

Good Luck

GoEers - if you can get the D* installer to leave the mast - go to Home Depot/Lowes and purchase a UHF/VHF antenna - I am using a 60' one from Home Depot on a 35' mast - I live on the north side of Doctor's Lake in Orange Park and receive all channels 100% with no problems. (I use to have problems but I stop using Diplexors and ran dedicated lines from my antenna to my receivers (over 100'))

By the way I am completely surrounded by trees (over 100' tall) on my property - not that major of an issue for me

Good Luck

Holy Crap! ... A 60 foot antenna on a 35 foot mast! No wonder you get all the stations at 100% ;)

...just kidding. I'll surely try another antenna if it turns out D* takes back the Winegard.

ooopps ---- 60" not 60' -- man that would be a big antenna :)

Is it just me... or is the OTA on ABC only in Dolby 2.0 ?? :(

Where the heck is the DD 5.1? :mad:

Unless something has recently changed, only WAWS Fox 30 and WJCT PBS (occasionally) broadcast in Dolby 5.1

Unless something has recently changed, only WAWS Fox 30 and WJCT PBS (occasionally) broadcast in Dolby 5.1


Wow... I had no idea. What a disappointment. You would think that they would broadcast 5.1 for live sports games, especially MNF.

Is this a limitation of the head-ends or just their standard mode of operation here?

The last time we had an update, the answer was that the station owners felt the HD viewership wasn't large enough to justify the cost of the upgrade to their equipment.

The last time we had an update, the answer was that the station owners felt the HD viewership wasn't large enough to justify the cost of the upgrade to their equipment.

Amazing... :rolleyes:

So, what happens when we get to the middle of next year and we get HD locals from D*? Is the only difference going to be that the signal is coming over D* instead of OTA, with the same pitiful Dolby 2.0?

As far as I understand the technology, D* will merely re-transmit whatever the local station is generating. So, even if the network feed is 5.1, if the local station still hasn't installed the proper decoders we will still only get 2.0.

Do we know which, if any, of the Jaguars away games will be broadcast in HD on Comcast?

Thanks

As far as I understand the technology, D* will merely re-transmit whatever the local station is generating. So, even if the network feed is 5.1, if the local station still hasn't installed the proper decoders we will still only get 2.0.

I guess I was spoiled coming from the Philadelphia market with all the 5.1 there...

I'm used to simply subscribing to D* locals and not bother with an OTA at all. If I could somehow get my OTA to all my SD D* receivers, I could just drop D* locals and save the monthly fee at this point. Is anyone doing that, and if so, how are you doing it? I'm assuming you'll lose guide info from D* and not be able to record locals using a SD Tivo.

Probably not worth the hassle...

I guess I was spoiled coming from the Philadelphia market with all the 5.1 there...

I'm used to simply subscribing to D* locals and not bother with an OTA at all. If I could somehow get my OTA to all my SD D* receivers, I could just drop D* locals and save the monthly fee at this point. Is anyone doing that, and if so, how are you doing it? I'm assuming you'll lose guide info from D* and not be able to record locals using a SD Tivo.

Probably not worth the hassle...

I'm subscribing to the D* locals only so I can use the SD Tivo in the bedroom when there are conflicting programs with the HD Tivo in the living room. Yes, you lose the ability to record OTA with the SD Tivo if you don't have the D* locals.

Keep in mind that D* still doesn't carry all the network feeds, nor all of the locals in Jacksonville. We have no UPN---for the one show, Veronica Mars, that I REALLY want in HD.

Isn't it possible to get the local hd channels by hooking the cable directly to the cable connection on the tv without a stb or cablecard? I just got my first hdtv (samsung dlp hlr6168) and can't seem to find the hd channels...can anyone help out?

I'm in Jacksonville, FL.

Since your TV has an integrated ATSC tuner, yes it is possible. Dunno how good the tuner in it is though. You should prob post your antenna info too.

Make sure you have plugged the antenna feed into "ANT 2 IN (AIR)" on your TV, as per the user manual.

Also, what's the signal strength meter say for each of the JAX area channels?

Does anyone else in Jax watch Fox with a Fusion 3 QAM card?

Mine crashes at almost every commercial switch. Previously I just used the card for background recording and I think it worked fine (not sure on Fox). But now I've switched computers and try to use if for regular viewing.

- Tom

Since your TV has an integrated ATSC tuner, yes it is possible. Dunno how good the tuner in it is though. You should prob post your antenna info too.

Make sure you have plugged the antenna feed into "ANT 2 IN (AIR)" on your TV, as per the user manual.

Also, what's the signal strength meter say for each of the JAX area channels?

What Gunny said. Also, you may want to look at the 1st post in this thread which lists the actual frequencies of the digital stations. Doing a scan on the Samsung should pick them up, but the list will tell you if you are getting them all.

Since your TV has an integrated ATSC tuner, yes it is possible. Dunno how good the tuner in it is though. You should prob post your antenna info too.

Make sure you have plugged the antenna feed into "ANT 2 IN (AIR)" on your TV, as per the user manual.

Also, what's the signal strength meter say for each of the JAX area channels?

Do I need an antenna even with cable? I have basic cable plugged into the tv and I read that people were able to get hdtv channels without a cable box, cable card, or antenna just with the cable plugged into the tv. Is this correct?

Do I need an antenna even with cable? I have basic cable plugged into the tv and I read that people were able to get hdtv channels without a cable box, cable card, or antenna just with the cable plugged into the tv. Is this correct?

If you are subscribing to Comcast, you will need either a cablecard or an STB. I thought your were asking how to get the "free" OTA stations.

Do I need an antenna even with cable? I have basic cable plugged into the tv and I read that people were able to get hdtv channels without a cable box, cable card, or antenna just with the cable plugged into the tv. Is this correct?

Your cable provider would have to be the world's most ignorant provider to make HD channels freely available to anyone with the basic plan. I'd love it if they all did, but that wont be the case for years. They have to pay for all that HD equipment, so expect to pay for any HD channels they are feeding. This will be the case for years to come I would assume. No free lunches from the MSO's, sorry.

If you're really right in JAX, any $20 antenna should work to get all the the JAX digitals OTA. They will look better OTA than through your cable provider anyway, as the cable provider undoubtedly compresses the feed above and beyond (or rather below and beneath!) the bit-rate at which the actual originating station broadcast it.

Put your address into http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx and check the distances of the digitals you want to receive and the antenna you will need to acquire. Just be grateful you're near the stations, otherwise you would have to put an ugly old-school antenna on your roof! Pity party for us out of towners, please.

Hi everyone,

I suspect that this has been addressed, but I'm curious if it's still the case...

In Jacksonville, the HDTV options are
1) Satellite with OTA for locals
2) Comcast
3) No provider other than OTA for locals

If that's true, then I've made a decision. I've had DirecTV for a while, but I'm not pleased with their HD solution. I don't want to buy a new receiver and my property, though within Jax (Lakeshore), has so many trees that the OTA antennas I've tried refuse to pick up ABC25, although I can get NBC12 with no problems in HD.

So, for less money upfront and less money monthly, I'm going with Comcast. I may hang on to my antenna for what I understand from the previous post to be superior OTA HD (for the channels that I can get). I'm getting their HD STB/DVR. I've read before that the DVR doesn't record in HD -- is that true?

Does this make sense? I'm new to all of this and I guess I'm just seeking validation from the pros. :o

Thanks,
Jimmy

As far as I know all Comcast's DVR's now record the HD channel as received. I had one for awhile.

- Tom

Hi everyone,

I suspect that this has been addressed, but I'm curious if it's still the case...

In Jacksonville, the HDTV options are
1) Satellite with OTA for locals
2) Comcast
3) No provider other than OTA for locals

If that's true, then I've made a decision. I've had DirecTV for a while, but I'm not pleased with their HD solution. I don't want to buy a new receiver and my property, though within Jax (Lakeshore), has so many trees that the OTA antennas I've tried refuse to pick up ABC25, although I can get NBC12 with no problems in HD.

So, for less money upfront and less money monthly, I'm going with Comcast. I may hang on to my antenna for what I understand from the previous post to be superior OTA HD (for the channels that I can get). I'm getting their HD STB/DVR. I've read before that the DVR doesn't record in HD -- is that true?

Does this make sense? I'm new to all of this and I guess I'm just seeking validation from the pros. :o

Thanks,
Jimmy

That is probably the best course for you at the moment. D* will not start broadcasting the HD locals until some time next year (we hope).

Thanks, guys! For the past few hours I've been reading your comments that you've posted over the years (!!). It's amazing to see how digital and HDTV have evolved in Jacksonville...

Glad to finally catch up with this area of technology.

Jimmy

Thanks for all the input guys. It helps a lot. i guess I'll have to go with a cable card...I really hate dealing with comcast though.

I'll definitely check that antenna webiste out, seems to be the most valuable site when choosing an antenna for hd broadcasts especially.

I got HD channels from Comcast with just a basic package.
My HDTV has a builtin QAM tuner. I could get all the local HD channels plus INHD1, INHD2, TNT-HD and ESPN for the last 2 years. Comcast just recently locked down ESPN, but the rest of them are still available with a basic package.


Your cable provider would have to be the world's most ignorant provider to make HD channels freely available to anyone with the basic plan. I'd love it if they all did, but that wont be the case for years. They have to pay for all that HD equipment, so expect to pay for any HD channels they are feeding. This will be the case for years to come I would assume. No free lunches from the MSO's, sorry.

If you're really right in JAX, any $20 antenna should work to get all the the JAX digitals OTA. They will look better OTA than through your cable provider anyway, as the cable provider undoubtedly compresses the feed above and beyond (or rather below and beneath!) the bit-rate at which the actual originating station broadcast it.

Put your address into http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx and check the distances of the digitals you want to receive and the antenna you will need to acquire. Just be grateful you're near the stations, otherwise you would have to put an ugly old-school antenna on your roof! Pity party for us out of towners, please.

I got HD channels from Comcast with just a basic package.
My HDTV has a builtin QAM tuner. I could get all the local HD channels plus INHD1, INHD2, TNT-HD and ESPN for the last 2 years. Comcast just recently locked down ESPN, but the rest of them are still available with a basic package.

I also have basic digital with Comcast using their STB, a Motorola DCT6200. I can get TNTHD and ESPNHD, but can't get INHD or INHD2. When I tune in these last two channels, I get a message telling me to wait a monment and that I should get the signal shortly. I am still waiting to receive them :mad:

Did anyone watch the repeat of Supernatural last night on WB 17? There was no sound on my end.

WB - seems to be having some issues with sound lately - noticed that on Smallville the other night - great picture - no sound -- Analog was fine (except the picture of course)

I've noticed the same---wasted recording time for Smallville. I called the engineering manager today to ask what the problem was. They are going to look into it.

Okay, more on Comcast...

They're coming on Tuesday for the install and bringing a STB. I got a dish win-back deal with $25 off Digital Silver Plus for 16 months. My 42" Philips says that it has QAM. My questions:

1) I still need the STB for DVR (obviously) and non-local HD, right?

2) Which actual box should I be trying to get? Is one better than the others?

Thanks again,
Jimmy

Tell Comcast that you want the 6412 box. It has two tuners so you can watch one station and record the other and a 120GB Hard Drive to record programs in both HD and SD. It will hold about 12 hours of HD and a lot (not sure) of SD programs.

Enjoy.

Sweet -- thanks. Hopefully they bring me the 6412.

On another topic... is anyone watching Threshold on CBS47? I'm watching OTA and between different commercial breaks it's switching from HD to SD. It's very distracting.

Jimmy

I got HD channels from Comcast with just a basic package.
My HDTV has a builtin QAM tuner. I could get all the local HD channels plus INHD1, INHD2, TNT-HD and ESPN for the last 2 years. Comcast just recently locked down ESPN, but the rest of them are still available with a basic package.

I also have a QAM tuner in mine. I thought it should be able to. What channels are hd? I can't seem to find them?

Quick Question:

I have basic cable analog – no digital – no HDTV
I have an analog Antenna for getting OTA HDTV

I have three input on the TV – one analog and
2 digital – all COAX.

So I want to get the OTA HDTV and also the
Analog cable tv stations all coming in on ONE
COAX line. Hoping not to run a second line.

Right now I just have a regular old antenna – but
Will be getting the channelmaser 4228 and a pre-amp.
I was going to get the 7777 – but if I need to chop
Out VHF I might get the 7775. And basic cable.

Any advice – suggestions? Except run another line :-)

Channel Master 4228 + pre-amp 7777 – vs Phillips indoor bought at Wal-Mart.

Channel Master 4228 says 12.0 dB gain – the 7777 pre-amp says 26dB gain
The $30 Phillips indoor antenna I got at Wal-Mart says 50 dB gain (its amplified).

Whats up? Please educate.

The channel masters gotta be better – how do these number work?

Stupid question: 12 + 26 seems lower than 50 - so I gotta get the
philips right?

I also have a QAM tuner in mine. I thought it should be able to. What channels are hd? I can't seem to find them?

COMCAST HD CHANNELS
166 - TNT HD - 1080i / DD5.1 - QAM # 111-2
167 - Discovery Theater HD - 1080i / DD5.1
168 - FOX HD (WAWS) - 720p / DD5.1 - QAM # 111-1
169 - Starz! HD - 1080i / DD5.1
170 - CinemaxHD - 1080i / DD5.1
171 - INHD - 1080i / DD5.1 - QAM # 103-1
172 - INHD2 - 1080i / DD5.1 - QAM # 103-2
173 - ESPN-HD - 720p / CS 5.1 - QAM # 102-1
174 - PBS HD (WJCT) - 1080i / DD5.1 - QAM # 114-1
175 - CBS HD (WTEV) - 1080i / DD2.0 - QAM # 114-2
176 - NBC HD (WTLV) - 1080i / DD2.0 - QAM # 104-2
177 - ABC HD (WJXX) - 720p / DD2.0 - QAM # 104-1
178 - Showtime HD - 1080i / DD5.1
179 - HBO HD - 1080i / DD5.1

After reading this thread I know some of you have had success in getting HD signal off of County Road 210. I am using a rat shack VR90XU antenna in my attic which served me well in Milwaukee where I used to get OTA channels with that and the built in tuner in my 65" Hitachi RPTV. At present I get good picture on some of the analog channels with it however I can't tune to any digital signals. the signal strength shows "1" on the signal meter on manually typing the local channel numbers like "13-1". I have tried the CM 3041 preamp as well bought from Lowes but it delivers the same results.

Please help !

Thanks.

Where are you located and what stations are trying to tune in?

Tried the entire spectrum but with no luck.....channels 2 through 69.

By the way location again is County Road 210, the home is 1 mile west of I-95.

After reading this thread I know some of you have had success in getting HD signal off of County Road 210. I am using a rat shack VR90XU antenna in my attic which served me well in Milwaukee where I used to get OTA channels with that and the built in tuner in my 65" Hitachi RPTV. At present I get good picture on some of the analog channels with it however I can't tune to any digital signals. the signal strength shows "1" on the signal meter on manually typing the local channel numbers like "13-1". I have tried the CM 3041 preamp as well bought from Lowes but it delivers the same results.

Please help !

Thanks.

I don't know if you got the PM I sent you but....I am puzzled why you can't lock. We are both about 17 or so miles from the antenna farm, well within reception range of that particular Rat Shack model. With the attic mount of the $39 RS model, I can get all but WAWS. I don't suppose you have an old indoor antenna around? You should actually be able to lock on some of the stations with one of them.

I got the Terk HDTVi on sale at Radio Shack and even with that, I can actually pull in all of the UHF digital stations. Are you sure there are no breaks in your cable run?

Peter,

Thanks for the PM and the reply.......I have even tried the indoor Terk HDTVi and I have had no luck with it. Heck, I barely get two analog channels with it and that too with a lot of ghost effect. Is there some equipment I can use to test the signal strength I am getting ? I have brand new quad shielded cable that I got installed through an electrician yesterday. We tried the antenna in the lawn before mounting it in the attic but it gave the same results as well.

The built in signal strength meter in the TV shows only 1 on a scale of 100 for all the channels. The most important part is to get the channel and get at least a one time lock so i can reliably test the signal strength.

I am clueless at this point.......any thoughts ?

Sunny

Masti - what direction are you pointing your antenna in - your antenna is a directional antenna and with that antenna you should be having no problems.

Are you pointing the antenna almost Due North from you location with a slight skew to the west (only 5 degrees or so)??

Very strange that you aren't getting any digital, by the way what analog channels are you receiving? Is it ABC? if so I believe the ABC analog tower is in a completly different side of town than the digital antenna farm and that is why I was asking the direction you were pointing your antenna in.

Let is know how it goes and maybe someone else might have further insight to you problems.

Good luck and welcome to the local Jax forum... actually there have been a few new visitors welcome to all of you.

Good point, Jeff.

Masti, have you gone to http://www.antennaweb.org and keyed in your address? It will give you the exact location of the digital antenna farm on Hogan road from your location. I will tell you this: the difference of just a few degrees in antenna orientation can make a difference in either getting or not getting them.

When I look at the map, CR210 / 95 and Hogan Road are lined up where Jeff has suggested: Due North, with a slight twist to the west. Try manually keying in CBS, 19.1, and then start with the antenna pointing North. Slowly rotate it to the West a few degrees. If that doesn't work, try keying in 47.1 and do the same. If you still can't lock, I'm beginning to wonder if something may have happened to the digital tuner in your set.

I have checked antenna web and it tells me 352 degrees from my location with 16 miles as the distance. Currently the antenna was pointed in that direction. My neighbors house which is about 30 feet away comes directly in line of sight (barely as it is one story as well). I will try pointing to 47-1 and move the antenna around to see if that makes any difference.

Last bet would be to check with an external tuner.........

Thanks for your help !

Well, I had D* come out and try to do some tweaks yesterday. What a joke. I've been out there all day myself and can say that CBS simply does not hold lock with this Winegard GS1100. All of my OTA's are located between 343-346.

However, when I first checked where the D* last left it, it was at 010!
I soon found out , that no matter if I ranged from 010-340, ALL of my other channels stayed locked in the 80-90 range with no 'bouncing' behavior. Again, it is only CBS, 47.1 at 343, that 'bounces' back and forth between 0-85, loosing lock about every 10 seconds.

I'm wondering whether a different antenna will make a difference or not. For grins I actually plugged in an old indoor TV-top Terk antenna, the kind the looks like a big bow-tie. I soon found out, albeit at a much lower signal strength, that even the indoor antenna received 47.1 with the same 'bouncing' behavior. (0-40)

I hate to send away for this Uni antenna only to find out that it doesn't make any difference from the Winegard: Uni-Directional (http://www.antennasdirect.com/V10_vhf_antenna.html)

Do you guys think I should give it a try or just forget it and wait for locals at some point 2nd half of next year?

You know, these are the kind of situations that make my head spin. For me, 47.1 is rock solid. It is 30.1 that does the oscillations. They are both owned and operated by the same company....not that that necessarily means anything.

Since others in this forum don't report that same issue, I know it is something going on here...but the behavior happens on both an old Hughes e86 and a six month old DirecTV 10-250 HD DVR. Now, here's the thing. I CAN lock onto 30.1 by using a dedicated Terk HDTVi antenna. It's just when I try to use the attic-mounted antenna that I can't get it.

Try manually keying in CBS, 19.1,

They are now using 19-3 for the DT.

Not sure what to make of this, but I just flipped on the TV and manually keyed in 19-1, then 19-2 and finally 19-3 on the DirecTV 10-250 DVR, and all three locked onto CBS.

Tried the same with a Hughes e86: only 19-1 brought up a signal. Must have something to do with the way the ATSC tuners are seeing the signal.

This is what antenna-web told me:

* yellow - vhf WTLV-DT 12.1 NBC JACKSONVILLE FL 179° 5.5 13
* yellow - uhf WTEV-DT 47.1 CBS JACKSONVILLE FL 187° 5.3 19
* yellow - uhf WJXT-DT 4.1 IND JACKSONVILLE FL 179° 5.5 42
* yellow - vhf WJXX-DT 25.1 ABC ORANGE PARK FL 179° 5.5 10
* yellow - uhf WJCT-DT 7.1 PBS JACKSONVILLE FL 189° 4.9 38
* yellow - uhf WJWB-DT 17.1 WB JACKSONVILLE FL 185° 5.2 34
* yellow - uhf WAWS-DT 30.1 FOX JACKSONVILLE FL 189° 5.0 32

So it seems I'm very close to all of the stations...does that mean I won't need anything heavy duty? If that is the case, aren't there antennas that you can place inside your home or patio (as I live in an apartment) that should be able to work just fine?

Thanks!

I'm getting pretty good results with the Terk HDTVi. Some people also like the Samsung TV5.2 SAX Amplified Indoor HDTV Antenna. The only caveat: buy from a store that allows returns in case they don't work in your case.

Cable TV and OTA on same coax?

Quick Question:

I have basic cable analog – no digital – no HDTV
I have an analog Antenna for getting OTA HDTV

I have three input on the TV – one analog and
2 digital – all COAX.

So I want to get the OTA HDTV and also the
Analog cable tv stations all coming in on ONE
COAX line. Hoping not to run a second line.

Right now I just have a regular old antenna – but
Will be getting the channelmaser 4228 and a pre-amp.
I was going to get the 7777 – but if I need to chop
Out VHF I might get the 7775. And basic cable.

Any advice – suggestions? Except run another line :-)


AND ...


Channel Master 4228 + pre-amp 7777 – vs Phillips indoor bought at Wal-Mart.

Channel Master 4228 says 12.0 dB gain – the 7777 pre-amp says 26dB gain
The $30 Phillips indoor antenna I got at Wal-Mart says 50 dB gain (its amplified).

Whats up? Please educate.

The channel masters gotta be better – how do these number work?

Stupid question: 12 + 26 seems lower than 50 - so I gotta get the
philips right?

Why do you want to get OTA when almost all our OTA stations are on cable? Or is your tuner not ATSC/QAM?

They probably have satellite and use cable for their internet. They would sub to basic cable tv service, so the cable internet price is cheaper.

Hey guys,

I just moved here from Washington DC. Over the last few weeks. WAWS high def. broadcasts have been lackluster at best. The HDTV goes in and out, and sometimes doesn't get turned on until the end of a television show. After this past monday, where arrested development was only HD for the last 10 minutes, and prison break went out for the last 15 minutes, I emailed them. I don't know if this means anything, but here is the response:


Dear Mr. Brown,

Thank you for bringing this issue to my attention. I can assure you I investigated this matter immediately, and found that your description was in fact correct.

WAWS was late in the FOX High Definition Roll Out, and as you found, we had a bug to iron out. We have addressed this issue, and as the Director of Engineering and Operations I can promise we will take all steps necessary to switch in and out of HD during FOX network programming as cleanly as possible.

I am recently from the Washington DC area and know the staff quite well at WTTG, they do a great job there. I contacted Jeff Andrews, the Director of Engineering at WTTG, and compared this and other station operations as I often do with television stations across the country.

We pride ourselves in on air quality here at WAWS/WTEV and try to make our operation the best in Jacksonville. This one slipped by. We value comments from our viewers, their comments and suggestions are what keeps us on top. Please feel free to contact me or our Vice President and General Manager in the future with your comments and suggestions.

Thank you for your comments and for watching WAWS/WTEV
Douglas Crall
Director of Engineering & Operations
WAWS / WTEV Jacksonville, FL
Direct 904-996-0450

Susan Adams Loyd
Vice President & General Manager
WAWS FOX 30 & WTEV CBS 47

Hopefully he is correct and next monday there will be no glitches.

Wow... Nice communication.

Now if only we can get all of the local HD stations to broadcast in DD 5.1 ! :D

We have found in the past that station personnel have been very helpful once issues have been pointed out.

For those of you with Comcast, I'm unclear what the channel lineup change means as far as WJCTDT (174) moving to 190 at the end of this month. Are there 2 more HD PBS stations being added on 191 and 192, or are these WJCT sub-channels? Any hope that the channel guide for WJCTDT will be accurate when the channel move is made?

For those of you with Comcast, I'm unclear what the channel lineup change means as far as WJCTDT (174) moving to 190 at the end of this month. Are there 2 more HD PBS stations being added on 191 and 192, or are these WJCT sub-channels? Any hope that the channel guide for WJCTDT will be accurate when the channel move is made?


Hopefully they are getting ready for the Analog Digital Simulcast and adding more HD Channels. I have heard the next HD channel they are adding is WB (locally) hopefully we will see UHD, and HD.nets, and UPN too.

FWIW, I notice my F3Q card now picks up that digital NBC weather sub-channel on Comcast rf channel 104-3. Dunno if this has been posted or how long it's been there. And I no longer have a Comcast STB so I can't say what logical channel it's on.

- Tom

Well, I had D* come out and try to do some tweaks yesterday. What a joke. I've been out there all day myself and can say that CBS simply does not hold lock with this Winegard GS1100. All of my OTA's are located between 343-346.

However, when I first checked where the D* last left it, it was at 010!
I soon found out , that no matter if I ranged from 010-340, ALL of my other channels stayed locked in the 80-90 range with no 'bouncing' behavior. Again, it is only CBS, 47.1 at 343, that 'bounces' back and forth between 0-85, loosing lock about every 10 seconds.

I'm wondering whether a different antenna will make a difference or not. For grins I actually plugged in an old indoor TV-top Terk antenna, the kind the looks like a big bow-tie. I soon found out, albeit at a much lower signal strength, that even the indoor antenna received 47.1 with the same 'bouncing' behavior. (0-40)

I hate to send away for this Uni antenna only to find out that it doesn't make any difference from the Winegard: Uni-Directional (http://www.antennasdirect.com/V10_vhf_antenna.html)

Do you guys think I should give it a try or just forget it and wait for locals at some point 2nd half of next year?


Well, I went ahead and purchased the above Uni-Directional antenna and installed it this morning. Looks like that fixed the problem with CBS 47.1. Now I'm rock solid at 92, so it seems that it was a multi-path issue afterall. :cool:

Almost all OTA channels improved a couple of points as well, which is nice. Now the 'weakest' number I've got is WB on 17.1, coming in at 78-80. Everything else is coming in between 85 to 92.

Now if only my Samsung would ship soon I could start watching all this HD that the Tivo is collecting... :D

Glad to hear things have finally worked out. A number of people have some problems with the WB, but it sounds like you have enough signal to lock on ok. That's good, since there are a number of WB HD shows worth checking out.

I finally broke down and got a good deal from comcast to get an hd box with all hdtv channels. I'm currently watching the jax game on wtevd 175 and it looks horrible compare to other hd programs. Is this game not being broadcast in hd or is that what I can expect from it? Anyone else seeing this?

The game is not in HD. You'll also find that the Moto boxes are all basically cr*p showing SD material.

Unfortunately, we'll be lucky to see any Jags games in HD, unless they make the playoffs. The HD cameras are relegated to the games shown to most of the country (not the Jaguars).

The game is not in HD. You'll also find that the Moto boxes are all basically cr*p showing SD material.

Unfortunately, we'll be lucky to see any Jags games in HD, unless they make the playoffs. The HD cameras are relegated to the games shown to most of the country (not the Jaguars).

That's what I was thinking. Is there any way to tell which games are going to be in hd besides waiting for them to come on?

EDIT: Nevermind, found the thread on this forum. I get to watch my Steelers in HD, good news! :D

The problem was the main camera wasn't in focus. Nothing to do with cable, OTA the same.

Incredible finish!

So why in He!! didn't WTEV show us the ending of the Eagles game in HD. Maybe they are determined to remain the worst station in Jax wrt switching to the correct format. Shame on them.

I'm going to be moving into a new house and was wondering what everyone thinks is better in regards to HDTV programming. Who has the best selection and picture quality? I've had digital cable for years both Comcast and Time Warner and was wondering if I am missing something. My wife is a huge football fan so we're considering the D*TV option, but I was concerned about the posts concerning less than great quality HD from D*TV due to compression. Thank you for your opinions.

I would probably rank order it as:
OTA HD
Comcast Digital Cable
Dish
D*

That is, again from posts I have read. I can only be certain about OTA and D* which is what I have. There is too much flux with D* right now to make a final call, however. They are supposed to start MPEG-4 satcasting in November, and until that happens we will not know if the new compression will improve the PQ, or just that they can cram more channels per satellite.

In any case, Jacksonville would not be part of the initial rollout. Last I checked, we were ranked as DMA 52 so we probably wouldn't be getting the new equipment until some time next year.

I'll defer to those who have Comcast and E* to re-rank what I have suggested.

I have a friend who lives off of US1 in St Johns County near the world golf village. He has a Dish 811 receiver and wans to pick up some OTA HD. Antenna web says he needs a yellow antenna. Any recommendations on antennas that may work? What about the TERK TV42 snap on the dish type?
Thanks!

In Jacksonville, we've seemed to have better results with directional antennae. Some of us have experienced problems with multipath. All of our digital towers are located in an antenna farm on Hogan Rd, so omni-directional isn't necessary.

Antennae from Channel Master (available at Lowes) or Radio Shack (some people like the VU-190) may be good choices.

Notice I'm not specifically recommending a particular make or model, other than suggesting a directional one. That is because there is no sure way to know if a particular antenna will work as desired until it is tried in the specific location. There are way too many variables.

I'm going to be moving into a new house and was wondering what everyone thinks is better in regards to HDTV programming. Who has the best selection and picture quality? I've had digital cable for years both Comcast and Time Warner and was wondering if I am missing something. My wife is a huge football fan so we're considering the D*TV option, but I was concerned about the posts concerning less than great quality HD from D*TV due to compression. Thank you for your opinions.

I have the D* w/that 'Superfan' package and the quality of the HD games (7-10 games every Sunday) is fantastic. My OTA viewing is done via the HD Tivo as well, and if there is a compression difference between the HD games from the Superfan package and the OTA HD, then I'm having a difficult time seeing it. Any huge football fan would be well advised to get D* Sunday ticket and Superfan. It's not cheap, but it'll keep you planted in from the of TV on Sundays!

Later,
pjdavep

Thanks for the help!

I'm posting this for a friend who needs some advice on a PC card that will receive HDTV channels. Is anyone here using one of these cards who could answer some questions? This will be for a local TV Station Engineer.

Hey Don,

Just last week I started using an MDP-130 MyHD card in my PC and am receiving OTA as well as unecrypted QAM Cable HD channels with it.

Boy that was quick- Can you display PSIP data with it?

I hadnt noticed and am going out of town tonight so I wont get a chance to check until this weekend. Will let you know.

I've also owned a half dozen of these cards. The recent ones can display the station name.

Currently I use a DVico F3Q card which seems to choke at every Fox commercial break (QAM or OTA) and can't get WB at all.

I also usually use a HiDTV Pro card that is better in many ways (except QAM cable). But the older PC containing that card seems to have totally died last week and I haven't had time to try to fix it.

If I bought another I'd probably try the MDP-130 as posted above. None of them are perfect.

- Tom

Is 7.1 still broadcasting on PBS? It went off for me Saturday night and has not come back on. It might be my stb,perhaps it needs to be reset.

Well, I do know that the MDP-130 is definitely parsing PSIP as it displays the station name and proper channel number (xx-x). It doesnt populate it's internal schedule, but that may be because the feeds arent providing the schedule within the PSIP tables.

What specific PSIP info does your guy need to see?

Is 7.1 still broadcasting on PBS? It went off for me Saturday night and has not come back on. It might be my stb,perhaps it needs to be reset.

It is still on. I was watching it this morning.

WTEV-DT is having audio dropout problems both on Comcast cable and over-the-air. The engineering staff is working on the problem. It will probably be a day or so before repair parts will arrive. Please bear with us until then.

Jerry
WTEV/WAWS Chief Engineer

Thanks Jerry for the update.

Jerry, is there anything you can do to get WTEV to more reliably switch to HD? Especially on Sundays. Somebody is "asleep at the switch" way too frequently.

I am not getting the Tennessee Georgia Game in HD. It keeps dropping out. Anyone else having the same problem? It seems CBS is having problems with the feed.

I had problems with freezing all during the Georgia/Tennessee game last night. It's now starting again on the Dolphins/Bills game.

im having probs w/cbs too. i really dislike cbs hd. hope they lose the nfl contract next time around.

Guys- Rest assured that all this stuff will get fixed in short order as soon as the analog channels go away. The problenm with all these glitches is that the HDTV broadcast really takes a back seat to the analog channels due to the numbers watching. Especially due to the executives watching. When analog is gone all will be watching and when the screw ups happen everyone will notice. No more shoving it under the rug and when analog goes away, everyone from scheduling to Master control to chief engineers will be asked to explain the screwups. Not to mention that when things break down in analog, we hardly ever hear that it will be off until new parts arive. With analog, most critical parts are kept in stock in redundant fashion at the station. They can't afford to be off the air until a part arrives by ground shipment, as in a few days. This is not to pass blame here, it is to predict what will happen when all eyes are on the digital broadcast and HDTV broadcasts. And this goes especially for the advertisers. If they are contracted to pay for HDTV airing and it doesn't happen, guess who get's a free airing?

Not airing a program in HDTV when it was meant to be is much like the days when analog forgot to air a show in color by forgetting to flip the color sub carrier on. Soon they found that it was best to just leave it on and not have to worry about it. I also predict that this ridiculous 19th century technology of "flipping the switch" manually will also go away. With all this techniology, I fail to understand why stations have to do this. When more heads discover that this is one of the most common failures to airing an HDTV program in HDTV, technology will be put in place to prevent the all too common human errors that cost them money.

But for the present, understandf that it is just human error and lack of priority to get it right. Keep complaining to the station and be on the record!

While i understand all that, WTEV has by far more problems than any other local station broadcasting HD. Whether it's forgetting to flip the switch to pixelation to audio problems to picture freezing, they are without equal.

It is time for the Eagles-Cowboys match. No pic on 30 or 47 HD channels. There is a signal, just no pics. There was pics on both in the early matches. dang it.

sd stinks.

I'm having freezing issues with CBS and FOX on Comcast right now. I hope it doesn't happen with ESPN tonight.

Also, I'm picking up some radio interference of some kind on Comcast's analog CBS channel 006. Is anyone else experiencing this?

I'm guessing that ESPN should be fine tonight - It appears that the problem may be with the local Clear Channel affiliates (CBS & FOX) only.

As far as the interference, is it a Clear Channel owned radio station?

What the fricken hell is wrong with 30-1 and 47-1.

ARGH.

As far as the interference, is it a Clear Channel owned radio station?

Sounds like Jesus/Gospel/elevator music but I can't tell which station it is.

What's the chances that anybody at 30 or 47 is even aware there is a problem?

How would you like to be a salesman at worstbuy showing customers how great football looks in HD?

ESPN-HD should be fine tonight. All HD, except our two locals, are working. I'll be curious to see if WJXT owns any HD equipment. They do digital on ch 42.

Guys- Rest assured that all this stuff will get fixed in short order as soon as the analog channels go away. The problenm with all these glitches is that the HDTV broadcast really takes a back seat to the analog channels due to the numbers watching.

Actually our analog signals are effected as well, but we discovered a work-around. There has been a major problem with the fiber we lease from Comcast. Techs have been working on it all weekend. It seems to work for an hour or so and then go south. We have never had a fiber failure like this that even effects our backup paths. We have used this system since 1997. Our digital signals have a path and a backup. Analog has a path and two backups. All but the last backup has failed.

Nothing is taking a back seat.

Jerry

someone's head should roll for this crap.........major network affiliates waiting on parts=pathetic

So I'm wrong that they aren't aware of it. My apologies to Jerry etal.

I did notice something really strange just now. On WAWS, which is currently OK on both SD & HD, the HD signal on ch 32 is about 1.5 secs behind the SD signal on ch 30.

And I should point out that although I like to bash WTEV for all the "asleep at the switch" we have to endure, WTLV has been less than stellar in the last few weeks. I think Don L is right in that HD doesn't add to the station's bottom line at this time, so management DGAS.

I would bet anything it has something with the problem that Jerry mentioned a few days ago - he did say they were working on it.

It does suck though

No relationship to the audio dropouts at all. We found out that the only place with audio dropouts was with our in-house monitoring. It did not effect the viewers. It was fixed the next day.

This problem, however is much worse and first showed up Friday night. Trust me, Comcast is on it as hard as they can be and have been since we first noticed it.

I know you that have been around since the early days (like Gator) know it, but my few posts here are an attempt to keep you informed as much as possible when we have technical issues.

Jerry

thanks Jerry for keeping us up to date - as some of us know - when you do post it is for a very good reason and this sounds like you guys have and will be very busy to fix the problems, Thanks again for the heads up.

by the way - you are on top of the posts today - you must have been replying to my post while I was deleting it.

Jerry,thanks for all the work and info.

I noticed that both 47 and 30 DT were off the air yesterday afternoon.

As for pixelization and loss of audio on CBS, I think this may be a network issue because the same issues are present on the national feed from NYC WNBC. Time to send Bob Ross a note if anyone cares to. He used to monitor this forum for PM's. I'm sure he is aware of it but you may get an explanation. I haven't checked the HDTV programming threads yet.

I watched briefly, FOX WAWS late yesterday after they came back on the air and the signal looked fine, including good DD5.1 as well.
added- Thanks Jerry for the update- I should remind others that I receive locals by antenna, not Comcast. So my comments are just related to OTA broadcasrt and not Comcast Fiber. It is likely that similar symptoms could surface in multiple locations.


ESPN Jag's game was just perfect last night. Very nice quality!

Scolumbo- I would hesitate to rate one station against another as to which station has the most issues with switch flipping etc. IT may just appear that way if you watch more of one than another. What I see is a commonality of problems among all stations doing HDTV including reports from other cities where forgetting to flip the switch, a human error, seems to be a continuing mistake. Equipment breakdowns will always be the case but a quick recoverey will hinge on a budget for redundancy. Human errors will happen until technology can develop a way to automate a recurring process. IMO, failure to broadcast a program the way it was intended once is one time too many and needs to be investigated for ways to prevent it.

Can't speak for WTEV channel 47 HD right now, but SD on channel 47 does not look good at all. Picture is washed out with no clarity.

Masti - or anyone else, have you found a good antenna for CR-210 in St John's county?

I also live about one mile east of I95 on CR-210. I have tried the terk HDTVi and the radio Shack 1880. They are both miserable. I get 2 channels with those. 25 and 30. I get more channels with $5 rabbit ears. 4, 12, 25, 30, and 47. Takes a lot of manipulating, but it works.

The problem is 47 is the worst and that's where the football is on Sunday.

Has anyone had any luck with the Terk TV5, TV55, or even that big square antenna you can buy at circuit city...the HDTVS?

Would an amplified set of rabbit ears work any better? I'll gladly trade my chaep 5 dollar set for a 10 dollar amplified set if it works better than these so called HD antennas.

kreepdog, welcome to our forum. I have a Jensen TV940 TV Antenna which works pretty good. It is an ampified remote controlled rabbit ear type antenna. I do live closer to the antenna farm than you, around the Avenue shopping center.

PSPun

Has anyone noticed that Comcast has moved the PBS DT channels to 190-193 and added HDSE on 165 that shows PPV HD (not new), NFL HD and other misc. HD programming?

Yes, but they announced that before they did it. I hope they add something at 174. We still need to get ESPN2 and WB. For me Comcast is in a race with Direct TV to who can add the most HD channels the fastest. Right now I am with Comcast but waiting to see what Direct TV will do with the new birds.

Time Warner Cable

Digital Free to air QAM channels I've found so far:

102-1 ESPN-HD 720p
103-1 WTLV NBC 1080i
103-2 WTEV CBS 1080i
104-1 WAWS FOX 720p
105-1 Previews 480i
105-2 FL Knowledge 480i
105-3 WUFT PBS 1080i
105-4 WUFT alternate 480i
106-1 DiscoveryHD 1080i
113-1 TNT-HD 1080i

Yes, but they announced that before they did it. I hope they add something at 174. We still need to get ESPN2 and WB. For me Comcast is in a race with Direct TV to who can add the most HD channels the fastest. Right now I am with Comcast but waiting to see what Direct TV will do with the new birds.

I'm hoping it's a sign we'll get ESPN2 on 174 next. Following ESPN on 173 makes it logical, although I'm not sure logic means much.

Scolumbo- I would hesitate to rate one station against another as to which station has the most issues with switch flipping etc. IT may just appear that way if you watch more of one than another. What I see is a commonality of problems among all stations doing HDTV including reports from other cities where forgetting to flip the switch, a human error, seems to be a continuing mistake. Equipment breakdowns will always be the case but a quick recoverey will hinge on a budget for redundancy. Human errors will happen until technology can develop a way to automate a recurring process. IMO, failure to broadcast a program the way it was intended once is one time too many and needs to be investigated for ways to prevent it.

You may be right, it could be because I probably watch more HD content on CBS than other networks so it just seems worse. Certainly, no one station has a monopoly on problems.

Wow, I wish I found this thread 2 months ago. Someone from the Tivo Community pointed me here.

I live in Ponte Vedra off of 210. I have DirecTV, and after purchasing my HD equipment, I did the antennaweb thing and it said I was within 15 miles of all the towers.

So after reading the last few pages, the reason that I cannot get 47 or 30 in OTA HD may not be the antenna I have? I get 12 and 25 fine, plus PBS. I have a Turk indoor antenna now, and after seeing that I get some but not all channels I thought it was the antenna, so I tried a Samsung (which didn't improve at all).

The problem MAY be the orientatation of the antenna. For me, the angle difference between picking up 30 and 47 vs picking up 12 and 25 is extremely narrow. An inch either way and I lose the signal.

Also, what may or may not be a factor is that 12 and 25 are VHF at 13-1 and 10-1, and 30 and 47 are UHF at 32-1 and 19-1. Unfortunately, most of this is trial and error.

Could you please explain to me how you manually select channels 32-1 and 19-1?

I have a Mitsubishi WD-52525 and there are no "-" or "." buttons on my remote. I can enter 19 and 32 but only get snow. I can't find a way to manually enter the -1 or .1. So aside form scanning for channels, am I out of luck?

Thanks!

From page 65 of your manual:

For a two part digital channel, you may press SUB/CANCEL on the remote to enter a separator after the first, second or third number, depending on the broadcaster's channel information.

For digital channels, when the broadcaster has sent a virtual channel number, the virtual channel number is shown in the text box and the original digital channel is shown below on-screen, as a reference.

Thanks Gunny!

Nice of them to put that in the "Antenna Menu" section instead of the section on the remote control...

I must have ADD. I lost interst on page 60 :)

No problem. I hate the manuals too. My trick has been to use the electronic versions and search for keywords. Flipping through the hard copies, trying to find the right info can be a PITA.

You may be right, it could be because I probably watch more HD content on CBS than other networks so it just seems worse. Certainly, no one station has a monopoly on problems.

No, he is not right. I record from all the nets and WTEV is the hands down winner in messing it up. In the last week they messed up w/o a trace, cold case, & the movie. A normal week for them.

No, he is not right. I record from all the nets and WTEV is the hands down winner in messing it up. In the last week they messed up w/o a trace, cold case, & the movie. A normal week for them.

Just curious, if its so bad why do you continue to watch them? If they are bad and no one watched maybe it'd force them to improve. I've not been around long but haven't seen all the problems you mention.

When I expect something in HD, and it turns on not to be, I'll often turn it off. When I do that I also like to mention it here on AVS somewhere in hopes it has some effect and helps to apply a very small amount of marketing pressure. Broadcasters are in the business of delivering eyeballs to advertisers so it's good to mention whenever they lost a few viewers for some unnecessary reason.

- Tom

What Tom said, and it's easier than getting the show from the net.

Plus bad management irks me.

Also, when the show you want to watch or the football game is on that station, you put up with it. It's not as if there is more than one station broadcasting the same show in the Jacksonville market. The only choice to complain to the station directly, and make your voice heard on forums like this. If you haven't experienced the problems, you don't watch much HDTV. Unfortunately, if the few of us watching HDTV turn it off, it won't make a bit of difference.

For those of you with Comcast out there struggling with the poor quality analog channels I found a solution. I have one of the original motorola 6412 boxes that came out last October now they have a 6412 III (phase 3) which includes much better analog channels, I went down to southpoint yesterday and swapped my box the analogs do look MUCH better.

**Also for those waiting for Digital Simulcast they are starting that here in the next 30 days and will be doing a channel for channel swap so hopefully by the end of the year we will be 100% ADS on the channels below 100.

Also, when the show you want to watch or the football game is on that station, you put up with it. It's not as if there is more than one station broadcasting the same show in the Jacksonville market. The only choice to complain to the station directly, and make your voice heard on forums like this.

Actually I sometimes exercise another choice by just downloading the show later when a station forgets to throw the switch and is lazily showing SDTV of some network HD show. Even the moderate quality downloads these days at least match SDTV quality and also have the advantage the commercials are already stripped out. And the hr.hdtv (1/4 rez) and HDTV downloads are much better.

So I hope that stations start trying a bit harder to show the full quality network versions with their advertisers content still in them. ;)

- Tom

For those of you with Comcast out there struggling with the poor quality analog channels I found a solution. I have one of the original motorola 6412 boxes that came out last October now they have a 6412 III (phase 3) which includes much better analog channels, I went down to southpoint yesterday and swapped my box the analogs do look MUCH better.

Did you need to give Comcast any reason to switch boxes other than the lousy analogs? I assume it's the same remote?

Nope, Just went in and asked if they had the 6412 phase 3 and she said yes with no questions asked and took care of it. They actually gave me the silver comcast remote with the big ON DEMAND button she said that was the latest.

WB just signed a digital retransmission agreement with Comcast word is we should see it in the next 30 days.

I was having pixelation (and worst) in the last couple of nights with the HD Comcast channels. It started a little before 8:00 pm and would last though the night. It would be fine in other hours. Did any of you expreience the same?

I had a problem over the weekend, but only on NBC (177). Lots of dropouts making watching impossible. I booked a Comcast service call for yesterday but in the interim I discovered that it was a network problem not local so when the guy came I had him verify that there was an issue and let him go.

WB just signed a digital retransmission agreement with Comcast word is we should see it in the next 30 days.

Woohoo! :)

Being east of their antenna, I've still never completely solved my OTA reception problems with the WB, though it usually comes in now. But it would be nice to have a solid HD cable signal.

Now if Comcast could just get ahold of UPN HD somehow my day would be complete. (Veronica Mars HD)

- Tom

I live west of the antennas and I have also been having trouble getting the WB signal, some days OK, others not so good. I look forward to having WB on comcast. I wonder where they will place it? 174 or 165 and move the HD special events page. Now if they would just make a deal and add ESPN2HD, that would be great.

Cmon WTEV, throw the "HD lever"!!! We cant watch the Gators/Bulldogs game in SD!

HD should start at 3:30

Yeah, phew. Sorry for the false alarm. I'll take a valium.

For those of you with Comcast out there struggling with the poor quality analog channels I found a solution. I have one of the original motorola 6412 boxes that came out last October now they have a 6412 III (phase 3) which includes much better analog channels, I went down to southpoint yesterday and swapped my box the analogs do look MUCH better.

**Also for those waiting for Digital Simulcast they are starting that here in the next 30 days and will be doing a channel for channel swap so hopefully by the end of the year we will be 100% ADS on the channels below 100.

Good info. Thanks!

Is anyone else having issues with CBS HD today for the Alabama game? My HD Tivo says 90+ on both antennas, yet my 47.1 keep going out. Totally unwatchable at this point. :mad:

Anyone else have this issue?

Well, it's Sunday night. What are the chances WTEV management will decide to let us see the movie in HD?

On one hand, CBS is heavily promoting it. OTOH, they have shown the last two Sunday movies in SD.

Maybe they'll compromise and show tonight in HD and next week's part II in SD. Or maybe an hour each night in HD.

Or maybe they realize all the recent CBS Sunday movies are crap and are trying to save us.

I Haven't seen anything on the Comcast announcement on WB and word if that is really going to happen?

WBHD IS going to happen... latest word I got was now by mid December it will show up and an official launch on December 30.

Hey guys

I know forms of this question have been asked a million times so I appreciate you guys bearing with me :)

I just moved into Bartram Springs (off Racetrack Road in south Jax). I lived not far from there off Greenland before.

I am now using an outdoor antenna for my HDTV reception. First off, does anyone use outdoor, specifically the type that attach to your satellite dish? Any experiences/comments/suggestions on quality? On a similar note, any suggestions on quality outdoor antennas? (ie: decent looking for the performance, heh)

The one I'm using now seems to perform very well, but there's an issue I noticed even when I used indoor antennas. Is there some reason that during the day I get breakup/pixellation on OTA but then at night it's flawless? It happened on my indoor antennas also even when I know they were in the sweet spot for perfect night viewing, I'd watch the Jags on Sunday and get breakup. Same thing happened today. Breakup during Jags but then that CBS movie at 9 pm was flawless.

Help me :) thx@!

I'm right down the road from you in Fruit Cove. My $39 outdoor Radio Shack antenna is mounted in the attic. I will get a brief breakup every now and then, but most of the time there is no problem.

I have never used the type of antenna that attaches to a dish (I know some are made by Terk), but from reports I have read the results usually are not good. I think the most common issue reported has been multipath. I find that a strong directional antenna seems to get the best results, even though aiming it correctly can be tricky.

What is multipath?

When a signal comes at an antenna from multiple directions, you will get all sorts of things happening. In an analog TV signal, it will often appear as "ghost" images. With digital signals it can wreak all sorts of havoc.

Omnidirectional antennae such as the kind that slip over a satellite dish can sometimes work quite well, but are prone to multipath. However, I've found that here in Fruit Cove, only a very directional antenna works.

Finally. WJWB-HD on ch 174 starting Dec 6th.
Thanks Comcast

Hey, that is great. Now we need Comcast to sign up ESPN2.

Does anyone know when will CBS, ABC/NBC start broacasting DD 5.1 audio?

**Also for those waiting for Digital Simulcast they are starting that here in the next 30 days and will be doing a channel for channel swap so hopefully by the end of the year we will be 100% ADS on the channels below 100.


WBHD IS going to happen... latest word I got was now by mid December it will show up and an official launch on December 30.


hey fljeremy, good call on both accounts.

Does anyone know when will CBS, ABC/NBC start broacasting DD 5.1 audio?


The obvious answer is when they purchase the equipment.

The real answer to when they will purchase the equipment is when management sees the need (economic incentive) to purchase the equipment.

No real way to know how long it might be. We sure can hope it will be sooner than later though.

Have any DirecTV HD users been experiencing problems recently?

Seems in the past week or so all but one of the HD channels (in the 70-79 range) are not coming in. I checked and there is around 0% signal strength on one of the satellites.

I have not touched my dish since installation. It worked flawlessly up until last week. I checked the connections into my HD-DVR, no problems there. I'm going to go get a ladder and look at the dish, just in case, but considering that I was viewing a Non-HD channel when I checked the connection into Satellite In 1 (which is where the HD problem is), the channel I was watching went out, and then came back when I plugged it in... I'm thinking the problem isn't with my equipment.

Would they really move a satellite like that, requiring a repositioning? That seems pretty stupid.

I am only having problems with Transponder 12 on Sat 110 (as of a few days ago) and it seems only to be low in the morning time not evening.

All other birds are in the 90's even the other two transponders are in the high 80's

I'm getting 0 signal on all 3 transponders on Sat 110

only 2 transponders on sat 101 is over 70. 2 of them are at 0. the rest are from 30-60.

Time to realign the dish - if you have already trouble shot all your connections etc.

why would that need to be done if the setup has worked flawlessly for over a year since installation, and for 3 months since i've got HD?

how often do others have to realign their dishes?

I've only had to have a technician come out once since the initial install...was having bad breakups on UHD. Turned out that the dish alignment was ok, but the connections were corroded. He replaced them, and the signal strength was back to normal.

We've had some windy days lately, so if the connections on the dish were getting loose, it might have been enough to knock things out.

why would that need to be done if the setup has worked flawlessly for over a year since installation, and for 3 months since i've got HD?

how often do others have to realign their dishes?

I have had D* for over 8 years and in that time I have had to realign about 3-4 times - not too big of a deal, but it does happen.

but before you try to realign - I would double check everything else, connections, receiver, multiswitch etc etc.

Hey guys I have a few questions regarding local Comcast service.

I have basic 1 cable, in the documentation it says that the HDTV locals are included with Basic 1 service.

What type of receiver do I need to pick them up? Do I have to rent/purchase something from Comcast? Assuming my TV has no built in tuner that is.

Secondly, long story on how but I was given someone's Comcast Motorola HDTV capable DVR. It doesn't seem to work however as I can hear that it's powered but nothing comes up on the LED and no video signal output. Is that because there is no Smart Card in it? If so, is it possible to get a Smart Card for Basic 1 service or are there hoops I have to go through.

whew.. hopefully someone can help :) thx in advance!

I think the reason is laziness and the bean counter mentality. Our society is now accepting more and more mediocrity every day. It's sad. Our stations should pass on the best signal they can, but they don't. They get 5.1 audio and pass on the antiquated stereo signal instead. There really is no excuse for not putting out the best quality product you can. Our stations are far from quality and always will be.


The obvious answer is when they purchase the equipment.

The real answer to when they will purchase the equipment is when management sees the need (economic incentive) to purchase the equipment.

No real way to know how long it might be. We sure can hope it will be sooner than later though.

DR Jax - where do you think they get their funds to purchase such equipment, are you and I giving them a check each week for your free OTA signal. I am by no means defending these stations for being "cheap", but who is going to pay for something that gets NO Return on investment in the near future (possibly longer)? Yes that is a bean counter comment, but that IS what the world we live in.

Believe me I wish they did pass 5.1 - as far as I am concerned we should make it known that we want this service (and I am sure- they know we do) -- I am more concerned that "pay" channels such as ESPN/UHD etc aren't passing 5.1 when we are paying for these stations

Everytime I make a purchase from the merchants who buy commercial air time on our local stations, I am paying for their equipment. It's really funny that PBS (a NON-profit organization) can somehow scrape up the dough for this and the others cry poverty. There is no excuse. If you are in the broadcasting business, you should be broadcasting the best signal the network can provide.

I also subscribe to cable. Don't the local stations get some revenue from this?

It's pathetic how long 5.1 has been available to the rest of the country and here we sit still in stereo.

This is not about NO return on investment, it's about providing the best available product for your consumers. Jax is the 52nd largest market sized city. Nearly 90 percent of all cities before Jax are providing 5.1. The 54th city, Wilkes Barre-Scranton, PA, can find a way to provide 5.1 for all stations, but we can't.


DR Jax - where do you think they get their funds to purchase such equipment, are you and I giving them a check each week for your free OTA signal. I am by no means defending these stations for being "cheap", but who is going to pay for something that gets NO Return on investment in the near future (possibly longer)? Yes that is a bean counter comment, but that IS what the world we live in.

Believe me I wish they did pass 5.1 - as far as I am concerned we should make it known that we want this service (and I am sure- they know we do) -- I am more concerned that "pay" channels such as ESPN/UHD etc aren't passing 5.1 when we are paying for these stations

Point noted - but in the case of PBS they can pass 5.1 because I believe they have a system much like Fox in that the signal is sent directly from the main feed not processed by the local affiliate.

And if you trully believe this is not about Return on Investment then.....

I am not against what you are saying, I to would like all our stations to broadcast 5.1 but at this time it is not happening. And IT is controlled by bean counters because they care about the bottom line and that means a good return on investment.

The obvious answer is when they purchase the equipment.

The real answer to when they will purchase the equipment is when management sees the need (economic incentive) to purchase the equipment.

No real way to know how long it might be. We sure can hope it will be sooner than later though.

Response I got from WJXX/WTLV:

"We are aware of this audio issue...however, it is extremely expensive to broadcast locally in 5.1, and
our engineers tell me that the networks have not found a way to switch between programs in 5.1 and commercials in stereo.

It also makes everyone’s job much harder trying to keep up with which standard is being used. We will at some point have it, but not in the near future I don't believe."



Bonnie L. Solloway
V.P. Programming & Marketing
WTLV / WJXX
bsolloway@firstcoastnews.com


It's pathetic how long 5.1 has been available to the rest of the country and here we sit still in stereo.

This is not about NO return on investment, it's about providing the best available product for your consumers. Jax is the 52nd largest market sized city. Nearly 90 percent of all cities before Jax are providing 5.1. The 54th city, Wilkes Barre-Scranton, PA, can find a way to provide 5.1 for all stations, but we can't.

Agreed.

Floss - thanks for the update from WTLV / WJXX but even there answer is flawed ( I believe) someone else here might know (Don Landis) but can't these stations just leave the signal 5.1 and when the mix is not true 5.1 it will just come through the right/left front speakers.

So I call BS on her statement "...and
our engineers tell me that the networks have not found a way to switch between programs in 5.1 and commercials in stereo. "

Unless someone can clarify

And yet somehow the stations in the other markets have managed to figure this out????

Actually, I prefer the "it is very expensive" or "there aren't enough of you HD viewers to justify the cost" or even "we just aren't that concerned about providing the best possible audio". Although I don't like any of those answers (we've heard them before), they sound more authentic. I think it is an insult to the fine engineers we do have here to say they just can't figure out how to do it.

That said, there really is no compelling business reason for any of the stations to broadcast 5.1. If there were sponsors demanding it, or hard proof that it is actually costing them viewers that would be a different story. I'm not trying to justify it, but I do understand the logic.

Can someone help me out on my question about Comcast HD? thx :)

What do you want to know?

Hey guys I have a few questions regarding local Comcast service.

I have basic 1 cable, in the documentation it says that the HDTV locals are included with Basic 1 service.

What type of receiver do I need to pick them up? Do I have to rent/purchase something from Comcast? Assuming my TV has no built in tuner that is.

Secondly, long story on how but I was given someone's Comcast Motorola HDTV capable DVR. It doesn't seem to work however as I can hear that it's powered but nothing comes up on the LED and no video signal output. Is that because there is no Smart Card in it? If so, is it possible to get a Smart Card for Basic 1 service or are there hoops I have to go through.

whew.. hopefully someone can help thx in advance!

Phod, you need a digital box. The DVR boxes, 9208 & 9412, don't have cable card slots.

Hey guys I have a few questions regarding local Comcast service.

I have basic 1 cable, in the documentation it says that the HDTV locals are included with Basic 1 service.

For just the basic HD channels you don't (currently) need a Comcast box or cable card. But you do need a 256 QAM capable digital TV, STB, or a QAM PC card like the the MDP-130 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=493691).

- Tom

I just caught this thread, and I'm glad I did. I also have comcast expanded basic, and I just bought a Samsung 46" dlp hdtv. I'd like to watch the FL-FSU game tomorrow afternoon in HD, so I was planning on running to circuitcity (or wherever) in the morning to buy an OTA antenna, probably an indoor one. From Tom's post, it sounds like I don't need the OTA antenna. My Samsung has a built-in hd tuner, but I have no idea whether it's QAM256 or ATSC or whatever.

More questions...Once I get either the OTA antenna or, as Tom suggests, no further modifications, would I tune the CBS hd channel any special way, or is it the same channel on my basic cable system as I've always used?

Thanks so much for your help.

Gary

:)

Where could I get a QAM capable digital STB?

gary, go the first page in this thread and try changing your Samsung's cable channel to those listed and see if you pick up the stations.

Most set top boxes and TV's do not support DIGITAL cable, though a few can. I use a PC and the MyHD card (or a DVico Fusion QAM card) I mentioned above. The Comcast channels are encoded in 256 QAM which is different from ATSC over the air stuff. Basically since cable has stronger signal and less interference they can put about twice as much information into each channel.

The channel numbers are not the same as in any guide I've seen so you have to hunt for them. In Jax all the Comcast HD channels that I know of are between 103 and 115. This is also not the same number as you would see with a Comcast digital cable box since they are remapped.

Be aware there is a trend for the cable companies to encrypt more and more channels. It's unclear whether they will encrypt the basic broadcast channels carried on cable. It has happened in some cities but I'm not sure whether they are really supposed to do that.

- Tom

Gary, the game will be on 114-2 using the cable antenna input. On the OTA antenna input, it will be on channel 19-3 or 19-1. Rabbit ears work fine if you're reasonable near the towers.

Thanks for the help! I went ahead and bought a Terk HD antenna from Radio Shack, hooked it up to the AIR input on the Samsung, and voila!...we have HD! :) This was my first extended viewing of an HD signal, and although I'm not sure if it was 720p or 1080i, it was very nice...crisp and clear, with very vibrant colors. I was also glad that the game itself was 16:9, even though all commercials and even the CBS studio scenes were in 4:3.

I tuned channel 47 on the AIR input (our local CBS affiliate), and the game came through beautifully. I'm not sure if I could have received a better signal by adjusting the direction of the indoor antenna, but it looked fine to me where it was. Every time my daughter would walk in front of it, the signal would jump a bit, but it came back very quickly.

However, being the TiVo family that we are, I'm hard-pressed to say that we'll watch many shows live, even with that beautiful HD signal. I'm considering upgrading to digital cable, and leasing Comcast's HD DVR, although with three DVR tuners, I won't know which end is up with all the recording we could have going on simultaneously.

I'll probably keep the Terk antenna to get the locals in HD, but I'd be missing out on ESPNHD and the other HD cable channels.

Oh well...if this is the toughest decision I have to make in my life, I'm doing pretty well. :)

Thanks again!
Gary

Go Gators!!! 34-7, baby!

For those of you with Comcast out there struggling with the poor quality analog channels I found a solution. I have one of the original motorola 6412 boxes that came out last October now they have a 6412 III (phase 3) which includes much better analog channels, I went down to southpoint yesterday and swapped my box the analogs do look MUCH better.

**Also for those waiting for Digital Simulcast they are starting that here in the next 30 days and will be doing a channel for channel swap so hopefully by the end of the year we will be 100% ADS on the channels below 100.


Any moto 34xx sightings? Ran my auto tuner a few days ago and all of the analog channels were coming up DS.....but the 6412 III only maps out HBO, HIST, CSPAN, and a few local access channels ADS for now. I'll be pissed if Comcast- Jax sticks w/ the 6412 III and never gives us 12.22 F/W.

Floss,

The DS map hasnt made it to your box yet it appears. Comcast is still testing the DS on the moto 6412III trust me the channels that are DS look fabulous. Once they work out the rest of the bugs everyone will get the DS map.