It seems that WHNS has had a change at the Station Engineer position. Foxeng has been kind enough to agree to let them know about the problem. Hopefully they will have it fixed before next week-ends NFL games.

Please make sure he tells them they need to teach their people to keep the HD feed ON after commercials too... the last two weeks HD has gone away in the second half due to them forgetting to switch things back.

I assume the problem is on your end. I am receiving WLOS-DT the same as always. Have you checked your antenna alignment, or to see if there was damage to your antenna?

WLOS fine in ASHE

calvinb

HD Tivos are pretty solid. I own one. The only problem that I've had, that others have had as well (see the reviews on the AVS forum in the hardware section) is OTA signal sensitivity. It is marginal at best. I still have my old Hughes HTL-HD. That unit is almost two years old, but still has much better sensitivity than my TiVo. The Tivo vs. your Samsung 360...about a dead heat (I used to own a 360 and I took it back...I found the HTL-HD had better OTA reception). The 360 MIGHT be a bit better, but not much. How's your reception now? Don't expect any difference, is what I'm saying. Yes, I would say now is a great time to uprage. PQ is about the same as all other units. Would I ever want to go back? No. It's worth the money, especially since the latest price drops. Any others questions, let me know.

I agree with cpalmer, our local affiliates are morons when it comes to this digital stuff. Can they not even know how to ask someone for assistance? I'm sure if this was happening with their analog equipment, they'd have it fixed in a matter of hours.

You know, some of us "morons" at the "local affiliates" do monitor this forum. If you think receiving DTV is tough, you ought to try creating, encoding, adding PSIP and closed captions and transmitting it. I like HDTV as much as anyone. As a matter of fact, that's about all I watch at home.

If you stop and think for a minute, you'll realize that most of the local stations were given a DTV channel in the 50's. High UHF channnels are not very desireable for television, analog or digital. One of the reasons they aren't desireable is the reception problems with these high frequencies. Many of you have been experiencing these problems recently and so have I. Changing weather and surroundings does affect propagation. When you have reception problems, it's not always because the "local affilates" are staffed with a bunch of "morons". I know that doesn't account for all the problems of late. DTV is a very complex system and small changes in the bit stream can affect some receivers and not others. If the change doesn't affect any of the receivers at the station, we may not realize there is a problem without reports from viewers. This happened to us a few weeks ago. Yes, we have test equipment that helps ensure a proper data stream, but it's not infallible either.

The reality of the current situation is the analog signal still generates all the revenue. When DTV starts to generate revenue, it will take a higher priority. I know that's not very comforting to many of you, but such is life. Resources are limited as is time (not to mention money), so we must prioritize. If I have a problem with both the analog and digital signals, you'll know which one I'm going to fix first. Does that mean we don't owe the viewer a quailty DTV signal, of course not. DTV is our future and my goal at WYFF is to make it as good as it can be. But if you're looking for perfection at this early stage of very complex television system, you probably won't find it quite yet. A little understanding wouldn't hurt. I suspect most of the engineering staffs at the "local affilates" will be willing to work with DTV viewers if they are approached with the right attitude.

Doug Durkee
Chief Engineer
WYFF

Disclaimer: These are my opinions and not necessarily those of WYFF or it's owners.

Okay, Doug, sorry for offending you. Right now, WYFF is the better of the major four in our area. I was using "moron" as a lamen term, not pointing it directly at a specific person. Sure, I understand the economics of the business. I, along with others, am just disgruntled at the lack of necessary attention that the digital equipment is getting. And, yes, being a ham radio operator myself, I understand signal propogation. My concern is if weather is that major of a factor, then we're about to have a major problem on our hands in the upcoming years. When grandma wants to watch the 12 o'clock news one day and can't because propogation changed, she's gonna be ticked (and this time adding aluminum foil won't fix it). My biggest beef at the time that I replied to cpalmer's comments is that instead of a day or two, it sometimes takes weeks for some of the local affiliates to get a problem fixed. I, like yourself, mostly watch the digital OTA broadcasts predominately. When the "big game" or whatever comes on and there's a problem, I get irritated. I have worked with some of the local affilites on issues with OTA, most notabely WLOS. I have a "friend" there whom him and I have traded comments concering digital OTA. Sorry for lashing out. I'm normally a mild mannered individual with a pretty high tolerance level. I will use better judgement in my choice of words in the future.

Hope I finally figured out how to get into this forum. I'm in Toccoa, Ga. with a cm 4248 with cm. preamp 7777. After a number of adjustments I now receive, 4,7,13, & 21 (HD) with very few drop outs. On a good cloudy day I receive unc pbs. 33 & subs. 21 is also somewhat weather dependent. I'm about 60 to 75 miles away from the transmitters with ch 13 at 33 degrees and 7 at 58 degrees, the other two in the middle. Is there any one at my distance using a cm 4228, I looking to improve................ Invited some non HD friends over Sat. to watch the game on 7, they were not impressed. You would think that wspa would use a crawl or something to indicate they are having problems, I even crawled up the ladder, adjusted the antenna, and as you guys know it didn't help. I finally sent an e-mail today, as their signal is still breaking up. Merry Christmas.

Good luck with WSPA. I'm only 14mi away and have fits with their signal. There's so much multipath its pathetic...even when I'm "locked" on their signal. I can get WBTV out of Charlotte much easier. What's wrong with WNEG...just curious?

You know, some of us "morons" at the "local affiliates" do monitor this forum.

Doug, I'm glad you monitor this forum. I assume there are techs from the other local stations that do as well. I've got a couple questions I hope you, or someone from another affiliate can answer.
1. Why not post on here when you are having issues? At least then we would know what the issue is and know that you guys know about it and that you are working on it.
2. (and this is directed more to WSPA and WHNS) Why is it that sometimes a show we know should be in HD starts in SD and then will finally switch over? I see this most with Football games, but have seen it on Prime Time TV as well. I for one would rather get no signal than see a HD show being displayed in SD.
Craig Tompkins
Greer SC

My concern is if weather is that major of a factor, then we're about to have a major problem on our hands in the upcoming years. When grandma wants to watch the 12 o'clock news one day and can't because propogation changed, she's gonna be ticked (and this time adding aluminum foil won't fix it). My biggest beef at the time that I replied to cpalmer's comments is that instead of a day or two, it sometimes takes weeks for some of the local affiliates to get a problem fixed. I, like yourself, mostly watch the digital OTA broadcasts predominately. When the "big game" or whatever comes on and there's a problem, I get irritated. I have worked with some of the local affilites on issues with OTA, most notabely WLOS.

At the end of the DTV transition, all DTV signals will be on channels 2-51. So the propagation problems will get better when DTV moves to lower channels. Many stations have elected not to use low VHF (2-6) due to impulse noise and cochannel interference which many consider worse than the propagation problems at higher frequencies. Receiver technology has improved significantly since the early days, but there is still much room for improvement. Hopefully when grandma must rely on a DTV signal for her news, the receiver technology will have solved many of these issues.

I understand your frustration and share it. I don't recall any DTV problems at WYFF that took more than a few days (or less) to solve, but it could happen to us. Since DTV is not the money maker, there isn't the same level of redundancy there is in the analog plant. There are single points of failure due to this lack of redundancy and if the equipment must be returned to the manufacturer for repair, it can take a couple weeks. Getting loaner equipment can be difficult too. So it's not always due to lack of care or concern. When there is a revenue stream coming from DTV there will be increased investment to add the needed redundancy and the viewer will have improved reliability.

I know most viewers don't know or even care what it takes to produce DTV. I'm not personally offended, but I though a little insight to the other side might be appropriate and to try and dispell the notion that every time a problem isn't fixed as quickly as we'd like it's due to a technical staff that doesn't know what they're doing. There is more than one possibility, and I thought it was time to point that out to everyone who frequents this forum.

Doug

Doug, I'm glad you monitor this forum. I assume there are techs from the other local stations that do as well. I've got a couple questions I hope you, or someone from another affiliate can answer.
1. Why not post on here when you are having issues? At least then we would know what the issue is and know that you guys know about it and that you are working on it.
2. (and this is directed more to WSPA and WHNS) Why is it that sometimes a show we know should be in HD starts in SD and then will finally switch over? I see this most with Football games, but have seen it on Prime Time TV as well. I for one would rather get no signal than see a HD show being displayed in SD.
Craig Tompkins
Greer SC

Craig,

I have done this in the past. I didn't with the problem we had a few weeks ago but probably should have. I can't speak for the other stations but if they're anything like us, they have reduced staffs, but not reduced workloads. I've seen reports of people having reception problems with WYFF-DT but we monitor our tranmitter carefully and with only a few short exceptions we've been running at full power since last February. I'll do my best to report known problems when we have them.

As for switching HD and SD, each station has their own methods. But in the end (assuming no techninal problems) it usually comes down to the operator at the station that is doing the switching (or monitoring the automation). We've placed an emphasis on getting the HD switched properly and I think our track record is good. One problem we've had on occasion is that NBC will schedule a program as HD and then not feed it that way. As is the case with some local stations, some networks haven't placed a high priority on HD. Networks aren't immune from technical problems either. NBC was a bit late to get on board with HD, but they are getting better. I'm looking forward to the Olympics in HD in February.

Doug

Thanks for posting, Doug. I've never had a problem with WYFF, so there's not much I can say about that.

WLOS on the other hand...well I think they might, in fact, be genuine morons. WYFF hit the ground running with their HD. It seemed like they wanted to get it right as soon as possible. But WLOS is dropping the ball at every step and seems to be making no progress towards full power any time soon.

Total lack of leadership and effort from the top down. But what else should you expect from Sinclair? I wish the FCC would come down hard on them.

the best thing about tonight IMO is the end of Monday Night Football on ABC :-)

Next year CBS has AFC back, FOX has NFC, NBC gets Sunday Night and ESPN gets Monday Nights.

For the first time I'll actually be able to pick up the HD feeds of all the networks carrying football. I just wish Charter & WHNS could finalize a deal and get it on their system. That'd eliminate my need for an antenna all together.

I totally agree cpalmer2k! However, it would be nice to get WLOS on Charter as well for the NBA (I know...most people don't care, but I would love to see it in HD). I wish WHNS would be on in time for 24!!!!

Good luck with WSPA. I'm only 14mi away and have fits with their signal. There's so much multipath its pathetic...even when I'm "locked" on their signal. I can get WBTV out of Charlotte much easier. What's wrong with WNEG...just curious?

WNEG is not digital at this time, and I watch shows I don't even enjoy if it is HD. I guess I'll get over that soon. As you probably noticed my first post was written before Christmas. I am pretty slow when it comes pc. I didn't want one, but my son bought it and did the install, and now I'm stuck with it, and enjoy very much.
Looking forward to taking part in this forum. Over this last week my reception has very good on all four stations, maybe it will continue for a while.

Thanks for posting, Doug. I've never had a problem with WYFF, so there's not much I can say about that.

WLOS on the other hand...well I think they might, in fact, be genuine morons. WYFF hit the ground running with their HD. It seemed like they wanted to get it right as soon as possible. But WLOS is dropping the ball at every step and seems to be making no progress towards full power any time soon.

Total lack of leadership and effort from the top down. But what else should you expect from Sinclair? I wish the FCC would come down hard on them.


WLOS has had some unique difficulties. They were initially block by environmental groups when they wanted to make changes to their transmitter site on Mt. Pisgah. WLOS will be going back to channel 13 after the transition so it's hard to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on equipment that will be useless in 3 years. We're in a similar situation but fortunately our ownership has gone ahead and made the committment. Without the necessary resources from the corporate folks, we'd be in the same boat.

Doug

WLOS says that the transmitter manufacturer is providing some support for solving their faulty transmitter. You would think that the manufacturer would provide a replacement transmitter after this long. I have not recieved a viewable since a couple of days in late July. Apparently, they were close to full power briefly at that point. It would be nice for WLOS to provide an explaination on this forum.

I totally agree cpalmer2k! However, it would be nice to get WLOS on Charter as well for the NBA (I know...most people don't care, but I would love to see it in HD). I wish WHNS would be on in time for 24!!!!

That's exactly what I'm sweating...that was how I sold my wife on HD. Surely WHNS will have this resolved in two weeks. It's DTV has been off the air for about a 5 or 6 days now, right?

That's exactly what I'm sweating...that was how I sold my wife on HD. Surely WHNS will have this resolved in two weeks. It's DTV has been off the air for about a 5 or 6 days now, right?

Nothing is "off the air" some people are having issues because something has changed in their stream, but I'm getting it OTA just fine, only on 57-2 instead of 21-1 like before.

I'm using a Samsung TV with a built in Tuner, it's roughly a year & a half old, so it's one of the newer model tuners. That might have something to do with it.

I receive whns on 21.1 here in Toccoa, I've had no problems, signal strength steady at 80.

Anybody else have issues with the Clemson game tonight on ESPNHD? It was so bad, I watched it on regular ESPN.

I watched the whole game ... no problems at all (with the exception of an audio sync problem that is only associated with my TV I think ... but that's an entirely different story) -- picture looked excellent. What kind of problems were you having?

The video was messed up. I don't know how to describe it other than blocky. It would go along fine for 5 minutes, then for 10 minutes the video was unwatchable. I honestly don't know how to describe it. Maybe it's still on the Moxi and I can take a picture of the screen, but I don't know how it will look not in motion. When SD commercials were on, the ESPNHD logo on the left and right were perfect, even when the commercials were blocky in the middle. It reminded me of a weak OTA signal or one that was not decrypted correctly? I hope you guys know what I'm talking about because I really don't know how to decribe it. I do know that I tried to watch the Long Drive Contest on ESPNHD earlier today and it was doing the same thing. I have not had any problems with ESPNHD before today.

came in fine for me... I'm using the normal HD box though, not Moxi

WLOS says that the transmitter manufacturer is providing some support for solving their faulty transmitter. You would think that the manufacturer would provide a replacement transmitter after this long. I have not recieved a viewable since a couple of days in late July. Apparently, they were close to full power briefly at that point. It would be nice for WLOS to provide an explaination on this forum.

I receive their signal fine here in Greenville. Are you in the Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville TV market?

I receive whns on 21.1 here in Toccoa, I've had no problems, signal strength steady at 80.


What receiver are you using?

That's exactly what I'm sweating...that was how I sold my wife on HD. Surely WHNS will have this resolved in two weeks. It's DTV has been off the air for about a 5 or 6 days now, right?

It's definitely not off the air, but something is wrong with their transmission stream. For example, I cannot pick up the signal with my Zenith TV (c32v37) on either 21-1 or 57-1, but I can pick up a good signal on my MyHD HD tuner card for my PC.

I have made the VP of Engineering for Meredith Corp aware of the problem with the digital signal at WHNS-DT. Hopefully, this issue will be resolved soon.


EDIT: WHNS is now back up on 21-1 on my Hughes Tivo box.

It's now re-mapped itself to 21-1 on my Samsung HDTV w/ built in Tuner as well

I can also pick WHNS-DT on my Zenith tuner, which I haven't been able to do for weeks, so it looks like the problem is solved....for the moment.

Edit - however, there is no guide info included with the stream.

this is slightly off topic, but anyone heard any rumors of new Charter channels? Typically they add around the first of the year for contractual reasons.. maybe we'll get lucky

WHNS is now on 21-1 on my HD TiVo as well. Thanks WHNS!

crgnjul said "The video was messed up. I don't know how to describe it other than blocky. It would go along fine for 5 minutes, then for 10 minutes the video was unwatchable."


Clemson game on ESPNHD was picture perfect on DirecTV. What were you watching on?

Clemson game on ESPNHD was picture perfect on DirecTV. What were you watching on?
Charter with Moxi.

Fox 21-1 digital signal now being recieved in East Asheville

I receive their signal fine here in Greenville. Are you in the Greenville/Spartanburg/Asheville TV market?


I live in Greene County, TN which is not in that market, but is well within the WLOS service contour and I have been watching WLOS 13 since I was a little kid watching Mr. Bill.

Clemson game on ESPNHD was picture perfect on DirecTV.

There was nothing picture perfect about it from the perspective of a Carolina fan..... :D

Go Cocks! Let's kick some Tiger tail in LA today!

I'e got a question for the Charter users out there.. does HBO, Showtime, & Cinemax come with the HD package, or do you have to subscribe to those Digital Cable Tiers for each of those to get those channels? Also how much does Charter charge for Cable cards?

I subscribe to both digital cable & HD right now, so I get them anyway. But I have a buddy who just got a tv with a Cable Card slot and he just wants to get the HD package added to his current cable, but he wants the movie HDs as well.

You have to subscribe to HBO, Cinemax or Showtime to get the HD versions of them on Charter. They do not come by themselves.

that's what I thought, but like I say I had both already, so I wasn't sure.

The NFL Network is off of Charter in Greenville. A call to the Charter Office revealed that the NFL asked Charter to remove them from cable. Has anyone heard anything about that?

Has anyone heard anything about that?The short version, from what I understand, is that the NFL wanted their programming tiered differently, gave Charter an impossible-to-meet deadline (something like three days), and cancelled their contract when Charter couldn't put the NFL in a family or extended basic tier quickly enough. That's what happens when you play hardball, I guess.

I have made the VP of Engineering for Meredith Corp aware of the problem with the digital signal at WHNS-DT. Hopefully, this issue will be resolved soon.


EDIT: WHNS is now back up on 21-1 on my Hughes Tivo box.

Apps1, thanks for contacting WHNS and getting the situation resolved. I think I got the signal back on the 28th as well. That was frustrating for alot of us. Thanks again!

Apps1, thanks for contacting WHNS and getting the situation resolved. I think I got the signal back on the 28th as well. That was frustrating for alot of us. Thanks again!


Maybe it was just a coincidence, but their signal was fixed just a few hours after I sent the e-mail to the VP. He responded back to me within 30 minutes. I have been messing around with this digital TV stuff since 1999, so I have collected a few good e-mail addresses over the years.

I was just about to complain about WHNS again, but they finally flipped the switch for the NFL.

You know this is one of their major properties and they've only been doing it 16 straight weeks now (well when they can REMEMBER)... why can't they get it right?

I get FOX OTA at around 60-70% and WLOS at around 50-70% signal strength. I use a standard RCA outdoor directional antenna, the old school kind. What exactly will a Channel Master CM-7777 preamp do for me? I'm still learning this stuff so bear with me.

I have for sometime had a problem with ch. 7 over the air program guide. I'm in Toccoa which puts me about 70 miles from their transmitter. I have in the past, had to reload 7 and 21 daily, but over the past 2 to 3 weeks have been unable to get the guide for ch 7.
I have a Pro Brand Digital Stream 3150, my signal strength is 85 or better. Anyone having the same problem, or have a suggestion?

Responding to the cm 7777 question, I use one with cm 4248, and at my distance I am pleased with the results.

Also no guide or program info for WSPA-DT here on my LG LST-3510A.

I get FOX OTA at around 60-70% and WLOS at around 50-70% signal strength. I use a standard RCA outdoor directional antenna, the old school kind. What exactly will a Channel Master CM-7777 preamp do for me? I'm still learning this stuff so bear with me.

A few months ago, I could get both at around 70-72%, now it fluctuates between 58-70%, what could cause this? The antenna hasn't been touched and is fine. Will the CM 7777 pre-amp help?

Here we go again....

I've got a party scheduled for the Rose Bowl on Wednesday night. Never had problems picking up WLOS before, but for the last week, haven't been able to get anything!?! For a few weeks, I was having audio synch problems (I figure thats from their end?). Now nothing!

May have to cancel party. Noone will want to watch it in SD, will they? :)

I'm new to the ota challenge, but it is my understanding that the pre amp will not create a signal that is not there, but will help with weak signals, which sounds like your problem. You may want to update the antenna, that 50% to 70% swing on the strength meter is the mother of drop outs. I have the cm 7777. I have good signals, ch 4 hits 95, 7 & 21 will run around 85 to 90, and ch. 13 holds fairly steady around 75, but 13 does have some bad days. My Pro Band receiver will hold a picture as low as 65 signal strength. My biggest problem is the 25 degree difference between ch 13 and ch 7. I'm thinking about a rotor to solve the fairly weak signal on ch. 13. Hope this helps with pre amp concerns, but is just my experience.

A few months ago, I could get both at around 70-72%, now it fluctuates between 58-70%, what could cause this? The antenna hasn't been touched and is fine. Will the CM 7777 pre-amp help?

I think you will get better reception with the 7777. I know I do. Buy one and test it out.

Thanks guys, one more question, from my distance away from the WLOS and WHNS towers(Greenville, SC). What would be the best antenna, a directional (CM 4248) or multi-directional (CM 4228 8-way bowtie style)?

Does anyone in the Waynesville area (specifically in the East Waynesville area, toward Hazelwood and Balsam) have any experience receiving any HDTV signals? If so, what is your experience and quality?

I want to purchase a HDTV receiver and TV for my parents, and am not certain whether the receiver needs to be QAM compatible or not (Guess I've been spoiled by the reception here in the upstate).

Thanks in advance.

I use the 4248 (with a cm 7777 pre amp) at a distance of 70 miles with good signals 98 % of the time with the exception of ch 13 which will have ocassional problems. ( usually football related, it seems). I have been considering the 4228, but that unit is very direction and in my case would require a rotor. If your stations line up to within 15 degrees of each other I would go with the 4228. If they are further apart you will probably need a rotor, or try the 4248. From my location there is 25 degree difference between ch 13 & ch 7, a small ajustment of my 4248 can make a difference. Your result will depend on your location. I have good elevation with one line of trees about 300 ft. away that are slightly higher than my antenna, otherwise on a clear day I can see the mt. I am aiming at. Good luck

I use the 4248 (with a cm 7777 pre amp) at a distance of 70 miles with good signals 98 % of the time with the exception of ch 13 which will have ocassional problems. ( usually football related, it seems). I have been considering the 4228, but that unit is very direction and in my case would require a rotor. If your stations line up to within 15 degrees of each other I would go with the 4228. If they are further apart you will probably need a rotor, or try the 4248. From my location there is 25 degree difference between ch 13 & ch 7, a small ajustment of my 4248 can make a difference. Your result will depend on your location. I have good elevation with one line of trees about 300 ft. away that are slightly higher than my antenna, otherwise on a clear day I can see the mt. I am aiming at. Good luck

Thanks Don

Here we go again....

I've got a party scheduled for the Rose Bowl on Wednesday night. Never had problems picking up WLOS before, but for the last week, haven't been able to get anything!?! For a few weeks, I was having audio synch problems (I figure thats from their end?). Now nothing!

May have to cancel party. Noone will want to watch it in SD, will they? :)

Hello Tony,

I had a similar problem with WLOS for a couple months. I found that the issues were related to multipath and resolved them by moving my antenna a couple of times no more than 5-10 feet. I have 3 different locations on my roof that allow for mounting of the ant and by trying each of them I found one that allows me to receive 5 of the 6 major networks (with the exception of WB40 as it is 80 degrees away for the others from my location). I would suggest trying different locations for your ant to see if it will solve you reception problems. Good Luck

Larry

Has anyone noticed that WSPA's secondary weather sub-channel (7.2) is broadcasting a 16x9 signal? Just poking around yesterday and noticed it. I could be wrong, or if this is posted earlier, I apologize, but I checked several times and the signal was definately widescreen. No big deal, but I wonder if it would eat up any more bandwidth than a normal 4:3 graphic?

Has anyone noticed that WSPA's secondary weather sub-channel (7.2) is broadcasting a 16x9 signal? Just poking around yesterday and noticed it. I could be wrong, or if this is posted earlier, I apologize, but I checked several times and the signal was definately widescreen. No big deal, but I wonder if it would eat up any more bandwidth than a normal 4:3 graphic?

They are just stretching a 4 X 3 to fill the screen. It takes up no more bandwidth.

Also no guide or program info for WSPA-DT here on my LG LST-3510A.
I am now receiving the ch. 7 program guide. I took about 20 ft. of cable out of my lead-in. Either I fixed it or they did. Signal strength is the same.

Anyone having problems with WLOS HD (in Greenville it's channel 13.1). I punch in 13.1 and nothing, syas Digital Signal Strength too weak. I've scanned and the signal strength is 0. It says the physical Digital channel is 13, not 13.1 and has no Virtual Digital channel.

Anyone having problems with WLOS HD (in Greenville it's channel 13.1). I punch in 13.1 and nothing, syas Digital Signal Strength too weak. I've scanned and the signal strength is 0. It says the physical Digital channel is 13, not 13.1 and has no Virtual Digital channel.

I do have the same issue.

Larry, thanks for your suggestion. I will give it a try.

I let the party fall through. Really sucks! :mad:

no problem with 13-1 in east asheville

I'm PISSED (yes, that's yelling)!

I call off the party, because we aren't getting a signal on 13-1. I go upstairs to check, just in case........I have no signal at all until the beginning of the National Anthem and it has been a perfect signal since. This is without me messing with the antenna direction!

I'm not understanding what's happening?

Good news, I can apparently watch the game. Bad news, I can never schedule for friends to come over.

Can anyone shed some light?

We're apparently on the HD LIL (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=626395) list for Dish Network.

I'm PISSED (yes, that's yelling)!

Not to rub it in or anything, but I watched the game in RD...real definition...I was at the game. Greatest sporting event I've ever been to.

Just got back in time tonight to watch the Rose Bowl. No problems with WLOS tonight for me.

RD. Got to remember that one!

Watched the Rose Bowl on WLOS-DT with no issues other than they still have to switch to HD in order to show their call letters at the top of every hour. It is also good to know that the 15 people with Cebridge (sp) cable continue to be informed that they can receive WLOS.

Not to rub it in or anything, but I watched the game in RD...real definition...I was at the game. Greatest sporting event I've ever been to.

Just got back in time tonight to watch the Rose Bowl. No problems with WLOS tonight for me.

Maybe I am missing something, but what game were you at?

I'm also not following you on what game you were at?

Well, the rest of the game was flawless.

Are they only sending out a signal for selected broadcasts? Why did I get nothing until the game started?

I'm also not following you on what game you were at?

Well, the rest of the game was flawless.

Are they only sending out a signal for selected broadcasts? Why did I get nothing until the game started?

There must be a problem on your end. I have no problems with WLOS-DT. What antenna/pre-amp are you using?

I'm using a CM4248 with no pre-amp, booster, etc. My tuner is the Samsung360 (not sure without looking at it).

The reason I didn't think it was on my end, was that I had nothing but static for the 12 hours prior to the game, and then when the game began, I had a great signal for the whole game. I made no changes. ????

Maybe I am missing something, but what game were you at?

The Orange Bowl (Penn State/Florida State)

I'm using a CM4248 with no pre-amp, booster, etc. My tuner is the Samsung360 (not sure without looking at it).

The reason I didn't think it was on my end, was that I had nothing but static for the 12 hours prior to the game, and then when the game began, I had a great signal for the whole game. I made no changes. ????

Hello Tony,

The inconsistance in signal seems to indicate MULTIPATH issues, which will have a negitive effect on you ability to receive a usable signal. I would still try moving your ant. Typically you will find that a 5 to 10 foot horizontal move will get you out of the field that is effecting your reception. I am further away from Mt Pisgah here in spartanburg than you are in Greer, and since I last moved my ant I have great signal and consistant viewing of WLOS, where for the previous two months I had nothing. I am using a 10ft Radio Shack ant with a channel master CM7778 Preamp, so I'm not using anything special to get the signal which is about 60 miles from my house. Another interesting note is that before I moved my ant I was getting UNC33(PBS) from Mt Pisgah. THis station is broadcasting at a much lower level than WLOS and I received it fine, but with the last move I have WLOS and no PBS. Not a big deal because I will watch WLOS more anyway, but it is also an example of how multipath can effect your usable signal.

Just my thoughts, I hope you find some resolution to your issues. It would suck to not be able to share your HD setup with your friends.

Regards,

Larry

Thanks Larry!

I also gather from this thread that my CM4248 is more prone to multi-path issues than a CM4228 would be. Before getting this antenna, I was using an indoor antenna and getting nice results with it. Maybe I'm just over antennaed (if thats a word). :)

I will experiment with your suggestion of moving it horizontally. You're right, the sharing with friends part is, perhaps, one of the most enjoyable parts.

URGENT!!!! I just installed my CM 7777, and...NOTHING!. I get all snow, can barely tell there is a picture, I was getting 78-82% on 4.1 NBC and 78-80% on 21.1 FOX. What gives? Everything is connected properly and I re-scanned the channels and still nothing.

It might just be a freak occurrance but I wonder if WLOS has finally done something to their transmitter/power? I'm picking up their HD signal (though it's still coming in weak with just two bars and occasionally breaks up). But I've never been able to pick it up before at all. I'm also picking up Ch 49, ETV now where I couldn't before.

URGENT!!!! I just installed my CM 7777, and...NOTHING!. I get all snow, can barely tell there is a picture, I was getting 78-82% on 4.1 NBC and 78-80% on 21.1 FOX. What gives? Everything is connected properly and I re-scanned the channels and still nothing.

What type of signal strength are you getting now? It is one of two things....either something is wrong (hooked up wrong, bad CM7777, etc) or you really don't need the preamp and you are simply overamplifying the signal.

Do you pick up other stations that may have had a lower signal strength? I think you are probably overamplifying the signal if you were getting 70-80% signal strength before installing the preamp.

I disconnected the powered Amp (not the mast-mounted pre-amp) and went straight from the mast-mounted pre-amp to the TV, that helped a little, still no digital Signal. Do I need to flip a switch or something?

Another question, a few weeks ago I was getting WLOS-HD on 13.1, as of last week I get no signal, I do get the analog version perfectly. The ant is pointed exactly where it always was. When I look at the signal meter, it's at 0 always. Physical Digital channel says 13 (that happens to be what WLOS is on here in Greenville), but the Vitrual Digital Channel says N/A (where as it used to be 13.1). I've raised the ant up a good 10 feet, nothing, rescanned, nothing. What could be going on?

I disconnected the powered Amp (not the mast-mounted pre-amp) and went straight from the mast-mounted pre-amp to the TV, that helped a little, still no digital Signal. Do I need to flip a switch or something?

If you have a mast mounted pre-amp with a power supply that connects to the coax, you have to remove the mast mounted pre-amp before any signal will flow. Most mast mounted pre-amps do not have a by-pass when the power is turned off so when there is no power, the pre-amp acts as a block of the signal.

I've never been able to get a workable signal when I've disconnected the power unit while still using the mast mounted pre-amp. I've just assumed that the preamp changed the signal so how and without the power amplifier, the TV couldn't receive a usable signal.

So I hate to say it, but you might need to disconnect the preamp as well. There shouldn't be any buttons or anything like that that you need to push. The preamp is a very basic set up. You choose the proper input on the preamp (I assume you are using the combined UHF/VHF input) and then simply connect the power amp in line closer to the TV. There isn't more than that.

Also, your ID doesn't say where you are located. Let us know the general area that you live and perhaps other people in the area can give their system specs to know whether other people are using a preamp close to you.

I'm in Greenville SC, in Paris Mountain State Park.

Does anyone know if WLOS is broadcasting at full power?

I asked the same question yesterday... it appears WLOS has changed something at least, as I can now pick up a partial signal (still not stable enough to watch though). But I've NEVER been able to get them before.

I'm hoping they fixed their encoder issue, and still have to make the full power transition or it looks like no ABC for me :-(

I get nothing from WLOS, where-as before the Ice storm a few weeks ago here in Greenville, I got around 68-74% signal strength. Now I get 0, I still get WHNS and NBC around 78-82%.

WLOS excellent signal here at the moment.

the last week has been very steady for WLOS. few weeks prior to that were zero signal.

Hi, I am in Taylors, SC and just purchased a philips hdtv with integrated tuner...I bought a terrestrial digital db4 antenna and installed it over the weekend...I am getting 4 (wyff), 7 (wspa), 21 (whns), 29 (pbs), 33 (pbs), and 62(upn)...I have been reading some of the prior posts about channel 13 (wlos)...I don't receive it...I saw the post about multi-path something or other and wondered if this antenna is prone to it? thanks for the help...by the way...football and basketball are very nicely done in hd...

Hi, I am in Taylors, SC and just purchased a philips hdtv with integrated tuner...I bought a terrestrial digital db4 antenna and installed it over the weekend...I am getting 4 (wyff), 7 (wspa), 21 (whns), 29 (pbs), 33 (pbs), and 62(upn)...I have been reading some of the prior posts about channel 13 (wlos)...I don't receive it...I saw the post about multi-path something or other and wondered if this antenna is prone to it? thanks for the help...by the way...football and basketball are very nicely done in hd...

Hello Blosh,

Since 33(PBS) and 13(WLOS) are on the ssame tower, it would appear that MULTIPATH could be causing you not to be able to receive WLOS. I had similar results and moved my ant no more that 5-10 feet horizontally. You might try moving your ant and see if it corrects your problem. WLOS seems to be the most difficult to receive. I hope this helps.

Larry

We're apparently on the HD LIL list for Dish Network.

Can anyone else confirm this? This would be outstanding, as it would force Charter Cable to start carrying all four major networks if they want to compete in the HDTV format. Please post a link if you have a list of the 50 proposed markets that Dish Network will provide in MPEG-4 this year.

Can anyone else confirm this? This would be outstanding, as it would force Charter Cable to start carrying all four major networks if they want to compete in the HDTV format. Please post a link if you have a list of the 50 proposed markets that Dish Network will provide in MPEG-4 this year.

I dont know about Dish but I believe our market will be in the DirecTV roll out planned for later this year.

"Including the 12 HD local markets launched last year, DIRECTV will offer HD local channels in 36 markets, representing more than 57 percent of U.S. television households in the first half of the year, with more local HD launches planned for later in 2006. DIRECTV will initially carry the primary broadcast stations - ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox - that offer an HD feed in the market. Customers who subscribe to a programming package that includes local channels will receive both the standard and HD signals at no extra monthly charge."

Can anyone else confirm this? This would be outstanding, as it would force Charter Cable to start carrying all four major networks if they want to compete in the HDTV format. Please post a link if you have a list of the 50 proposed markets that Dish Network will provide in MPEG-4 this year.

I'm not sure if there is a list also, but DBSTalk.com has a summary from the Charlie Chat (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=50581)....

I saw the following maps:

http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=5084&d=1136863529


Though the dots appear to be somewhat off, I believe the one over the top of SC is intended to represent Greenville, and the two over NC to be Charlotte and Raleigh.

Please post a link if you have a list of the 50 proposed markets that Dish Network will provide in MPEG-4 this year.There was a link in my original post, but that thread has since been removed. Apparently the information in that since-deleted thread was misleading, listing markets that were being considered for LIL but not definitively getting them anytime in the near future.

We're the 35th largest market, though (well, Greenville/Spartanburg/Anderson/Asheville), so I wouldn't think we'd be too far back.

Can anyone else confirm this? This would be outstanding, as it would force Charter Cable to start carrying all four major networks if they want to compete in the HDTV format. Please post a link if you have a list of the 50 proposed markets that Dish Network will provide in MPEG-4 this year.

Not that I live in the Clemson/Seneca area, but according to zap2it.com, Northland Cable is now carrying (400) WYFF, (401) WSPA, (402) WLOS, and (403) WNTV. So, they are now one up on Charter with ABC carriage.

Blosh, any luck with WLOS? I have had some of the same issues you have had re:WLOS-DT. Along with several others on this forum, I have had success with WLOS using a rotor and a CM 7777 pre-amp. I do not watch PBS much and I normally have to rotate the antenna a good bit when I switch from WYFF/WHNS/WSPA over to WLOS. I am interested to hear how successful you are as I am not always happy with my WLOS HD experience.

I was wondering if anyone else has lost the signal from WLOS/DT 1 & 2. Usually a pretty good signal but nothing this evening. Thought I would ask before I got on the phone.

I don't find WLOS signal today.
Night before last I experienced the worst reception day in my many years in TV...both analog and digital reception was almmost missing for a number of hours. Anyone else have that problem?

I can not receive WLOS-DT today either.

Called WLOS...........13-1 & 2 back on the air

Called WLOS...........13-1 & 2 back on the air
???

WLOS DT disappeared at 8PM tonight

WLOS DT disappeared at 8PM tonight
13 also gone from NE Ga. Heavy winds on the mt. today.

13-1 was on the air at 7:59 and gone at 8:00 tonight.

WLOS is totally non-existant in Taylors tonight.

WHNS is up and down and all over the place, probably due to the winds.

So yesterday I decided to set up an antenna to pick up my OTA HD channels -- I preliminarily had the antenna set up in the living room just to make sure it would pick up the channels before I spent all the time installing in the attic. Worked fine -- all the channels, including 13.1 seemed fine. Well I took the antenna up in the attic and could not find WLOS ANYWHERE ... as you can probably guess, it was about 8 pm or so when I took it up. Eventually checked this forum and saw everyone else was having problems too. But not before I spent hours moving the antenna looking for a channel that was essentially non-existent for everyone -- lots of fun!

I hope WLOS has everything cleared up once the Super Bowl comes around. It would be really annoying to plan a party and not know whether 13.1 will magically appear or not come game time.

By the way, I seem to be getting it (WLOS) fine this morning.

i thought superbowl was on fox?

If the industry wants HDTV to be something viable with the average Joe, they'd better get their act together. If it's not plugnplay, it won't fly.

Super Bowl is on ABC this year... The good news is MNF goes to ESPN and Sunday Nights to NBC, so after the Super Bowl we can kiss ABC and WLOS goodbye unless you're an NBA Fan.

Okay, I've had a television with HD capabilities for over a year and haven't taken the plunge. We have Direct TV and we're thinking about getting the HD/DVR receiver. I know what I can get through them, I'm deciding whether I'll be able to get any local channels. I am in Leicester, about 20 minutes outside of Asheville. There are several trees in the neighborhood that actually block Dish Network from our property. We had Dish before we moved here and they couldn't get a signal here. Do we stand a snowball's chance in getting any off air reception in the Asheville/Greenville market? Or will we just be wasting our money? Any response would be greatly appreciated!

Tonight PBS-HD (29.3) the audio was slightly out of sync with the video. It was the only channel that was out of sync--even 29.1 and 29.2 were ok. I tried the receiver with both DD and PCM, they were both off. Several shows in a row had this problem, and it was still like that when turning off the tv around 2AM.

This channel hasn't had any problems like this before. Did anyone else notice this?

ladytonya: I would think you will be able to get 13 & 21. If you are not setting deep a valley, 4 & 7 should be available. I am 70 miles away with a channel master 4248 and cm 7777 amp. I have good elevation with a few trees about 300 ft. away, other that for those trees the mountains are in view, ( on a clear day). Windy weather will cause some breakup, but my signals are very good most of the time. You may want to hire someone with a signal strenght meter. That should tell you what you have and have not. By this time next year Direct should have the HD locals. Even so an antenna is good idea. Good luck.

ladytonya: I would check this source regarding your potential reception. Trees are seldom a problem for me, and mountain ridges can provide pretty good "knife-edge" reception.
But, start here:
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx

My audio was badly out of sync on WLOS-Dt last night, approximately 9:45 - 11 p.m.

I watched DH & GA on WLOS-DT last night and the audio was in sync. It is possible that your sync problem was on your end.

My audio was badly out of sync on WLOS-Dt last night, approximately 9:45 - 11 p.m.

There were no sync problems on my end.

My audio is out of sync every week for Desperate Housewives. It was again last night.

Oxb & others:

Yes, it is possible that the problem is on my end (most likely with the Samsung receiver which needs a re-boot from time to time. That is one of the reasons to post on this forum, so you can seek out whether or not a problem is universal--especially on the station end.

Some one here at work, watched WLOS HD, but played the audio back thru their Moxi from Charter, and got it to sync up. He didn't look like he was kidding

I'm using the Samsung ts-360. What is the reboot process you're talking about. Would like to try that.

thanks.

I have had to "reboot" my receiver (Motorola HDT-100) once or twice because of audio sync troubles before. As in turn it off then back on.

Once I thought that there was a terrible sync error. The sound was off by about two seconds. It turned out to be an equipment problem on my end. My Sony audio receiver does not have enough optical audio inputs. My OTA and cable tuners are connected to an automatic Audio-Technica optical switch. It had latched onto the cable box and I was watching the video from the OTA box. Muting the OTA tuner for a few seconds fixed that. But I was confused for a minute or so.

Re-booting the Samsung only involves unplugging the set for 10-15 seconds and plugging it in again. (Don't do that in the middle of a program, it takes several minutes to reboot.) It can solve a number of issues that develop over a period of time.

ps--using the set's power switch will not reboot the set.

My audio was badly out of sync on WLOS-Dt last night, approximately 9:45 - 11 p.m.

If the audio problem was your Samsung rcvr, could this also be the problem with captions?

Doug

I'll give this a try next time it happens.

Doesn't make sense that it happens only for certain shows.?.

Thanks for the tip.

So is everyone here going to be hosting a Superbowl party? HD has suddenly made me the guy to visit for sporting events! I love it. Lots of fun!

Tony

douglasd5...
A good question regarding CC/Sync. I watched another station and had CC last night after rebooting the Samsung. (I assume the station's CC might not have appeared before the reboot). Therefore I am checking the relationship, but must wait for it to happen again. I especially rely on captions to enjoy West Wing, which has about the most unintelligible dialog on television--the current trend in performances!
Unfortunately, the Samsung has a history of needing a re-boot every three months or so.

I turn my power of to all the equipment with the switch on the surge protector. I assume this means I'm rebooting every night? is this so? and if so, does rebooting to often create any issues?

Anyone have problems with LOST last night. I'm in Greenville SC, and I was getting 68-70% strength last week. When I turn it to 13.1 to watch LOST in HD, nothin'....I get 40-44% now. What is the deal, is there bad weather up there?

Anyone have problems with LOST last night. I'm in Greenville SC, and I was getting 68-70% strength last week. When I turn it to 13.1 to watch LOST in HD, nothin'....I get 40-44% now. What is the deal, is there bad weather up there?

No problems with Wlos 13.1 Wed. evening or today in NE Ga. The Wlos signal strength is the lowest among the "four" from the Greenville market in my area.
However I lose 21 more often than 13 even though 21 usually carries a stronger signal. Don't know why. 13 will run a steady 75, while 21 will normally run 85 on the receiver signal meter, but at times bounces all over the place, and is in and out.????????

WLOS was strong and steady here in Simpsonville too last night.

Ok, how do you check your signal strength? Also, I live in Pelzer (29669 area code) and I sometimes lose 13 and 21. I just use a $12 indoor antenna that sits on the floor behind my TV. What would be the best indoor and outdoor antenna's for a reasonable price? <$100 ?

Ok, how do you check your signal strength? Also, I live in Pelzer (29669 area code) and I sometimes lose 13 and 21. I just use a $12 indoor antenna that sits on the floor behind my TV. What would be the best indoor and outdoor antenna's for a reasonable price? <$100 ?

I use the TV's signal meter. I wonder if what is causing this very low signal (42-46%) is multi-path. Can anyone shed any light on Multi-path? I've tried to raise the antenna and move it, still, no improvement. I was getting 68-70% last week.

However I lose 21 more often than 13 even though 21 usually carries a stronger signal. Don't know why.

I have problems with 21 myself, and I strongly suspect that it's because of interference from WACH (FOX) in Columbia, which has its analog signal on the same channel (57) as 21's digital signal. If I orient my antenna just right, I can usually get a fairly steady signal on 21, which suggests that I'm aiming a null in my antenna's reception pattern towards WACH.

But surely you're far enough away from Columbia that this wouldn't be an issue for you. Do any stations in the Atlanta area use 57 for analog or digital?

tony123 --
Turning off all equipment with the power strip switch should reboot the Panasonic receiver. I prefer to operate my Samsung 360 with a UPS power because of the slow reboot process, some 2-3 minutes as the receiver reloads all guide information from the satellite. I only reboot when the receiver has a problem specifically corrected by a reboot such as audio sync issues.

Although I am line-of-site from WHNS-DT and have in the past found it to be the strongest DT signal, a few weeks back the signal dropped and remains in the 80s instead of the previous 100 pct. I have not noted a posting that indicates an equipment change at WHNS, but that seems to be indicated by the change in reception.

It appears that WLOS-DT is off the air again. :eek:

The station that YOU'LL be watching the Super Bowl on!
Hey, everyone, come over to my house and maybe watch the Super Bowl. 50% chance it is in HD.

It appears that WLOS-DT is off the air again. :eek:
Yep -- same here. Extremely annoying! Anyone have an email address handy for them where we can complain?

bloodta --
Multi-path usually is caused by a reflected signal arriving as delayed reception. A good way to check on a multipath signal from a location where two or more transmitters are located together is to check an analog signal where the reflected signals will show up in the picture. It may be hard to see close-in secondary pictures, so look closely. Looking at analog 13 probably will indicate if there is a problem, although reflections change with frequencies. And there is a big difference between channel 13 and WLOS-DT's high UHF channel. There are other causes for multipath, such as RF waves crossing a series of mountains...but that gets a bit complicated. Multipath can be caused by a problem in the transmission line, or an antenna connection.
Multipath can cause a number of problems in DT reception, such as loss of signal, pixelization, audio drop out, etc. A good, narrow reception pattern with good front to back ratio in the antenna can solve many multipath problems...if that is the problem.

Good luck

I have finally joined the HDTV arena. I have a Humax HFA100 receiver hooked up to an old channel master outdoor antenna on the roof. I looked for a model number on it but couldn't find one. I spent sometime today freeing up the rusted mounts so i could turn the antenna and try to fine tune the local channels. I am able to get WHNS (100%), WLOS and WUNF (80-90%). I have had no luck pulling in WYFF or WSPA. I really wanted to get WSPA for the AFC championship game tomorrow but oh well. At this point after seeing WLOS out today and having read this forum for a while now, I am not real hopeful we will get to see the superbowl in HD. I am considering a preamp but am worried after reading some of the comments on here about overpowering the receiver since i am already getting strong signals on the afore mentioned 3 channels. I guess I should mention I am in hendersonville, NC. I haven't tried looking for WYFF or WSPA over the analog spectrum. If I can pick up the stations on NTSC will that give me an indication of grabbing them with an preamp over ATSC? I have heard through work WSPA is starting up a new tower. I need to find out where it is and what the startup date is thou. Anyway glad to be a member of the HDTV family now even if it is limited to 3 channels. Last but not least. GOD BLESS FORUMS!!!

WC--
Welcome.
An older antenna could be the source of problems. Most of them were very directional. Viewers have found DT reception (at UHF frequencies) may be better served by a broader reception angle from an antenna such as the Channel Master 4 or 8 Bay. Did you consult with http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx
for the location of the stations. You seem to be between WHNS and WSPA and that may require a rotor or a different antenna setup. I would try aiming the old antenna directly toward WSPA to see if that gives you a signal from WSPA DT.

Good luck

thanks for the reply JB. yes i have gone to antennaweb and another site mentioned here to get the proper directions. i have rotated the antenna with the help of a compass to point at both WSPA and WYFF from my location with no luck. i looked up the 4bay and 8 bay rigs you mentioned. They may help since they are strictly designed for UHF and my present setup is a cross between VHF and UHF. I will have to look into the costs and see if its something i want to experiment with.

Yes once again WLOS-DT 1 & 2 are off the air. Man oh Man i hope this doesn't happen during the superbowl....party at my house as i am the only one with the HDTV

WC -
I also get good signals from WLOS, WUNF and WHNS out here in Etowah, NC. In these cases, I have line-of-sight between the towers and my antenna. The NBC and CBS channels do not come in due to mountain ridges in between. I did get a weak signal from WYFF by pointing the antenna to the WSW, but it must have been a reflection in that WYFF is almost due south just across the SC state line. WSPA is a lost cause in that I have a hill close-by in that direction. Hopefully, some new towers will be put in to provide NBC and CBS programming for our area.

.

But surely you're far enough away from Columbia that this wouldn't be an issue for you. Do any stations in the Atlanta area use 57 for analog or digital?

Thanks for the hint, and I'll bet you are right. WATC analog out of Atlanta broadcast on 57, and looking at their coverage map, they could cause me problems. If I turn my antenna about 180 degrees I can pickup four of the Atlanta stations (signals borderline), but not including WATC. Under certain weather conditions most anything is possible, the last time I looked at Atlanta I received vhf 11 on my uhf antenna, so I'm sure if the conditons are right WATC could come in on the back-end. I had no idea they were there. Guess I need some heavy duty Reynolds wrap. Thanks

WLOS-DT is off the air here in Clemson too.

In fact, I have not been able to receive a strong enough signal the last week or so to lock on. Today, the signal is completely gone. I hope this means they are doing some constructive work to improve the signal. Has anyone heard from them about when they intend to join the rest of the world with quality digital transmission? The last I remember, they had an "encoder" problem or something. When do they intend to go full power?

I hope everyone is e-mailing them with our frustrations...

WLOS better have good HD during the Super Bowl! Has anyone been able to confirm this with them?

Another Football Party to be ruined by OTA HD reception! REmember, my Rose Bowl party was a bust! Now the Superbowl???? I'm going to loose my grip on being the "place to be" for sports events!

How come, when I was actually getting WLOS-DT, I pointed my directional antenna, at True North when it calls for 326 degrees north, I got reception, then I pointed it at 326 degrees north and I got nothing? I'm getting zip out of WLOS-DT now, at least the other day I was getting 44% on occasion.

WABC-DT NY, on D* if WLOS craps out on Super Bowl Sunday

How come, when I was actually getting WLOS-DT, I pointed my directional antenna, at True North when it calls for 326 degrees north, I got reception, then I pointed it at 326 degrees north and I got nothing? I'm getting zip out of WLOS-DT now, at least the other day I was getting 44% on occasion.

I assume you don't have line of sight to the tower. You issue is one of two things. Either your antenna isn't calibrated to correctly for North with the proper declination adjustment (I think that is the proper terminology) or your direct path is actually blocked by some obstruction, but you are picking up a reflection at a different position. I suspect it is probably number 2 and it is fairly common.

I am new to the whole OTA for my HD programming. So pardon the rookie question.

I noticed tonight during the NFC Champ game that the signal for 21.1 was constantly changing strength. My TV (Panasonic Plasma HD) has a signal gauge. During the broadcast it would swing 20-30% every 30-60 seconds in power. Thus at the beginning of the game the strength was good and weakened during the game to the point that by half time I was back to SD.

Is this due to the antenna, weather or is it common for some channels' strength to float so much so fast.

(Location: G'ville at the very Northern end of North Main).

(Powered multi directional Antenna mounted in attic in front of a false window, roughly 30'above ground. )

The day before 21.1 was my strongest- but tonight my second worse (with good old 13.1 sinking to the bottom of the barrel)

WLOS-DT was back on the air in time for prime time last night and is still up this morning.

Swagner2 - I find that rain and wind effect my signal. It wasn't windy last night, but it did rain. I know people will argue that UHF signals are suppose to be immune from fluctuation slike this, but in the real world dealing with multipath, rain and wind definitely play a role.

Hopefully each new generation of ATSC tuners will be better dealing with multipath and this will be less of an issue in the future. But for now, this is just the reality of OTA HD for many people.

I just recently bought an HD tv with a cable card.

I have Charter cable. WYFF HD is on 784. WSPA HD is on 787. Where can I find WHNS and WLOS HDTV?

I have Charter cable. WYFF HD is on 784. WSPA HD is on 787. Where can I find WHNS and WLOS HDTV?You'll have to get an antenna.

Hello all,
Thanks to this thread (it took awhile to get through the whole thing) - I now am able to pull in some OTA HD channels! However, I'm looking for some advice on how to improve signal strength/reliability...
I live in Fairview, NC and I'm trying to get WHNS, WLOS, and WUNF. I purchased a CM4221 to start with and mounted it in the attic. I was able to pull in WLOS & WUNF but no WHNS and WLOS/WUNF was weak and intermittent (fluctuates b/w 49-76 signal strength). So I tried mounting it on the roof where an old directional antenna had been and was able to get FOX w/ 80 signal strength (minimal fluctuation), but could only get ABC/PBS intermittently.
So, my question is - would you recommend the CM7771 preamp or the CM4228 8 bay antenna as the next step to pull in ABC/PBS or just keep searching for the "sweet spot" with the 4221?
I'm about 25miles from the Pisgah tower. I purchased the 4221 intially because of cost/size to fit in the attic. I may also try moving the antenna around in the attic more since I'm getting 80 signal strength outside on FOX but nothing at the location in the attic! I've got about a 75ft run of RG6, but could probably get it down to 50ft once I've settled on a location and I re-run the cable.
Thanks for any advice - this is a great thread and I'm happy to be pulling in anything at this point!

Jay
:)

wyliecoyote -- I don't see how you can be pointing at both stations with one direction from Hendersonville.

darby78 --
Fairview is surrounded by mountains...with only a west opening toward Pisgah. You will be very lucky if you can pickup the stations to the south of you. Maybe a bounce from a mountain to the north? I have known a number of people to fail to get OTA from there.
You may have to wait until LIL is avail by satellite...perhaps a year away.

Hello all,

Thanks for any advice - this is a great thread and I'm happy to be pulling in anything at this point!

Jay
:) I use a cm 7777 with good results, but an amp will not create a signal if there is nothing there. If you have a professional installer in your area, it may pay you to get his ( or her) advice. Good luck.

JB- Not worried about getting the channels to the south - I currently have Charter HD - so I've got CBS/NBC, but wanted to see if I could get WLOS & WHNS. I picked up WLOS right away in the attic (pleasantly surprised), and took the antenna outside to see if I could maybe pick up WHNS. I was even more surprised to get WHNS stronger than WLOS (WLOS seemed better in the attic)- it hasn't missed a beat since I put it outside. However, WLOS is not as stable - so I'm trying to find the best location to pick it up.
I hadn't noticed the mountains around Fairview - are you sure? Maybe I should look outside :) -just kidding- can't help being a smart ass. Since I'm already getting a great WHNS signal and an intermittent WLOS, I was asking whether you (or anyone else) thought I'd see a significant improvement with a preamp or an 8 bay or if my best bet is to keep moving around to find the best spot.

Don F - thanks for answering my question - I do get a signal - just doesn't seem especially steady (maybe knife-edge) - so I'm not sure if I'd get better results with a bigger 8 bay or the preamp. I'll just have to experiment.

wyliecoyote -- I don't see how you can be pointing at both stations with one direction from Hendersonville.

I guess i wasn't clear enough in my post. If you are asking how can point at WSPA and WYFF I didn't mean I did it simultaneously. I pointed the antenna at each one in turn had my wife check for a signal then moved on to the next one with some stops in between to check for reflections. The antenna ended up parked at around 290 degrees which gave me strong signals for WLOS, WHNS and WUNF. I was able to at least watch the NFC game in HD which was a real treat. I just wish this wasn't the end of the season at this point. I dent know that the Humax receiver registers anything above what it calls 50% so i dent know if i am getting any signal at all from the two missing stations. Given our terrain around here it wouldn't surprise me to find out its impossible for me to receive them.

I'm not sure if I'd get better results with a bigger 8 bay or the preamp. I'll just have to experiment.[/QUOTE]

If you decide to go with the 8 bay I would like to know the results, I'm always looking for a better signal. However "Solid Signal" says the 4228 is very directional, which in my location would require a rotor, but it might be worth it. (I no longer have a wife, so I can do it.)

JB-
- so I'm not sure if I'd get better results with a bigger 8 bay or the preamp. I'll just have to experiment.

Above for DARBY 78. I ant' real smart with this computer. However if it showed up in the proper form, disregard this post.

With a rotor you might be better off with a deep fringe yagi.

Re problem OTA in the mountains. The 8-bay has higher gain and is far more directional than the 4, and it can solve low signal problems. But, it is correct you may need a rotor for best reception. Seasonally, multipath becomes a problem here on my mountainside and rotation of the antenna can solve much of that. RF amplification is tricky. Remember you not only amplify the desired signal, but other close in frequencies, including public service bands and aircraft. Some of us occasionally use amplification for one station and take it out for others, orienting the antenna away from strong signals or padding them down. Admittedly, todays RF amps can handle much stronger signals than in the past, but the receiver also is subject to overload. Moving around for the best antenna location was important in my case. So, it takes a combination of things to solve non-line-of-site and distant reception. Good luck.

In case any of you missed it, UPN and The WB are merging (http://www.cbscorporation.com/news/prdetails.php?id=173) are being tossed in favor of a fifth broadcast network, The CW. I realize this news is too recent for there to be a clear answer to this quite yet, but I'm curious which of the local affiliates will carry this programming -- WBSC or WASV.

I realize this news is too recent for there to be a clear answer to this quite yet, but I'm curious which of the local affiliates will carry this programming -- WBSC or WASV.

Hopefully which ever one is closer to giving us a good HD signal. Any word on that front?

Maybe this brings me one step closer to seeing my girl Veronica in HD...

WABC-DT NY, on D* if WLOS craps out on Super Bowl Sunday
Are they just opening up the channel to everyone?

Hopefully which ever one is closer to giving us a good HD signal.Exactly. And the only show I watch on either of those networks is Veronica Mars, so I'm right there with you.

Any word on that front?Last I heard, WASV was still aiming for HD before July, but I sent them an e-mail earlier today, and hopefully their response will offer some more up-to-date information. If they don't wind up carrying the CW's programming, I wonder if they'll even bother, at least anytime soon.

-(From G'Ville, SC, in Paris Mountain State Park)...There must be something goin' on over at WLOS, I can't get better than a 52% signal for more than 2 seconds and the analog station isn't as good as it was. 2 weeks ago I was getting 68-72% signal on WLOS-DT, now I'm lucky to get 54% for about 5 seconds. Anyone know if they're upgrading equipment or reducing their power? It sucks that I gotta watch LOST in regular crap-a-vision.

-(From G'Ville, SC, in Paris Mountain State Park)...There must be something goin' on over at WLOS, I can't get better than a 52% signal for more than 2 seconds and the analog station isn't as good as it was. 2 weeks ago I was getting 68-72% signal on WLOS-DT, now I'm lucky to get 54% for about 5 seconds. Anyone know if they're upgrading equipment or reducing their power? It sucks that I gotta watch LOST in regular crap-a-vision.


Not crap-a-vision, just lo-def

[QUOTE=bloodta]-(From G'Ville, SC, in Paris Mountain State Park)...There must be something goin' on over at WLOS, I can't get better than a 52% signal for more than 2 seconds and the analog station isn't as good as it was.

No problem with 13.1 in NE Ga. tonight, signal steady at 76, which is about as good as it gets, for WLOS. With a 76, no drop-outs.

In case any of you missed it, UPN and The WB are merging (http://www.cbscorporation.com/news/prdetails.php?id=173) are being tossed in favor of a fifth broadcast network, The CW. I realize this news is too recent for there to be a clear answer to this quite yet, but I'm curious which of the local affiliates will carry this programming -- WBSC or WASV.
Well, the first rumor I've heard is that in areas where a company owns both a CBS affiliate and a UPN affiliate, that affiliate will likely get the new network over the other. That means WASV would get The CW here, which is just fine with me. However this is still just a rumor.

I live in Pelzer, SC. I hooked up an $18.00 magnavox antenna and sit it on top of my TV and I get CBS,NBC,ABC, ETV and WHNS. To say the least I am pleasantly surprised. Not sure how much the TV has to do with this but I have a Sony KDF-E50A10 for anyone wondering.

All...re Captions:
Per my previous postings, I do not receive Captions during HD programs from WYFF and WLOS. All others are fine. After several weeks of investigation with the help of Doug Durkee and Wayne Estabrooks, it is now recognized that Samsung and others ignore certain Captions. Here, from Wayne and Doug are summaries:
Wayne--
"Yes we have the same problem with our Samsung boxes and the early Harris receivers.
My newer LG 4200 works fine."

Doug: "appears your receiver is only detecting the line 21 information in SD
that is being upconverted to HD. Evidently this is being emulated by WSPA
and WHNS, but not exactly the same way by WYFF and WLOS. We are
transmitting both 608 (legacy) and 708 (HD) captions and do have consistent
captions on many receivers. Evidently there is a compatibilty issue with
some of the Samsung tuners. We have an early Harris ($8K broadcast demod)
receiver which is basically a Samsung and captions on it are not reliable.
I have a Videotek receiver (another $6K broadcast demod) and captions are
fine. I have other consumer receivers that have consistent captions.

I have an LG receiver that has seperate settings for both types of captions
and it works consistently on the DTV (708) captions but not on 608 captions
which would be similar to your problem."

JB--I am going to ask Samsung for assistance in solving this problem.

-(From G'Ville, SC, in Paris Mountain State Park)...There must be something goin' on over at WLOS, I can't get better than a 52% signal for more than 2 seconds and the analog station isn't as good as it was. 2 weeks ago I was getting 68-72% signal on WLOS-DT, now I'm lucky to get 54% for about 5 seconds. Anyone know if they're upgrading equipment or reducing their power? It sucks that I gotta watch LOST in regular crap-a-vision.


I am sbout 4 miles from where you are located. Since the outage last week-end I am getting a slightly stronger signal from WLOS-DT. When they are up and running WLOS-DT is one of my more reliable signals.

WNC Members: Wayne Estabrooks (UNCTV) is working on an FCC CP application and a Federal grant application for what will be PBS's first DTV translator. It will be licensed, we hope, as a DTx. The plan is to put a 200 W ERP channel 25 transmitter on Cowee Bald in Franklin, NC and broadcast digital on the very same channel as WUNF-DT

WAYNE NEEDS LETTERS OF SUPPORT FROM YOUR AREA to include in the FCC FILING.

Wayne says: "The FCC has not opened a filing window yet for companion channels and I'm not sure I can find any but they did issue rules for DTx so I can file this. When they open filing window it may not do much good due to limited spectrum available. Once analog is shutdown hopefully more spectrum will be available."


I also wouldn't mind having a letter or note of support from anyone in the Franklin / Sylva area rthat would support our efforts. I would use it as an exhibit in the grant application.

The cable company serving Sylva and Franklin has already expressed strong interest in carrying our DTV signals.

BTW our new analog translator at Cherokee is working great.

"I'm Backkk,, Baby!!!!!!!!!!!" Finally after some screwing around and moving the antenna a good 10 feet to the left, WLOS-DT is now at around 74-78%... I feel stoked to be watching LOST in HD again, well, if WLOS doesn't screw us that is.
Tony

All...re Captions:
Per my previous postings, I do not receive Captions during HD programs from WYFF and WLOS. All others are fine. After several weeks of investigation with the help of Doug Durkee and Wayne Estabrooks, it is now recognized that Samsung and others ignore certain Captions. Here, from Wayne and Doug are summaries:
[I]Wayne--
"Yes we have the same problem with our Samsung boxes and the early Harris receivers.
My newer LG 4200 works fine."

I just checked for captions on "Freddie", broadcast in HD on WOLO and WLOS, using all four of my HD receivers:

Samsung SIR-T451
Accurian (Radio Shack)
US Digital DB-2010
Sony DHG-HDD250 (HD OTA DVR)

The Samsung does not show the captions on WOLO, but the other three units do.
None of the four units shows the captions on WLOS.

In general, the Samsung is indeed the worst of the four in showing captions. The Sony, which is the newest unit, is the best of them, slightly ahead of the Accurian and the US Digital.

Thanks for the caption info, it will help in trying to fix the problems.

Some more caption data... I've been watching Jay Leno on WYFF. All my receivers show the captions, even the Samsung!

Quick hardware/reception question: Guys, I am thinking of splitting the line from my antenna before it goes to the HD TIVO, reason being I am getting ready to buy a new HDTV with ATSC tuner and would like to use both the internal tuner AND the Tivo functionality (my current display is just an HD monitor). I'm guessing I can't use a regular RG-6 cable splitter or can I? Also, any advice on splitting the line and feeding more than one HDTV with OTA HD would be very helpful. I AM using a CM pre-amp so I guess I need to plug that into the equation also. Any advice is much appreciated.

Quick hardware/reception question: Guys, I am thinking of splitting the line from my antenna before it goes to the HD TIVO, reason being I am getting ready to buy a new HDTV with ATSC tuner and would like to use both the internal tuner AND the Tivo functionality (my current display is just an HD monitor). I'm guessing I can't use a regular RG-6 cable splitter or can I? Also, any advice on splitting the line and feeding more than one HDTV with OTA HD would be very helpful. I AM using a CM pre-amp so I guess I need to plug that into the equation also. Any advice is much appreciated.

The HD-TiVo has one input for the antenna, which it will split internally using two tuners, allowing the viewing and recording of up to two OTA channels simultaneously. (Well, you can only view one at a time.)
I'm pretty sure you can use a standard RG-6 splitter. Then you could send the signal to multiple receivers/TVs. I don't know where the CM pre-amp would fit in. Each splitter does cause some signal weakening.

Re splitting the Antenna feed, each time you split the signal you reduce it slightly more than half the original signal strength. (Most splitters are rated at -3db but that often is conservative. You may need to use an amplified distribution system if you have some weak signals in the mix. Be sure it is a quality product!

ps--with amplified RF, the amplified DA is not the best idea. In that you have RF amplification, probably the passive one-in, two-out splitter should be ok. You are the best judge...have you had signal problems in the past?

jtbell --
Don't find your equipment list...what Samsung receiver are you using. (Samsung acknowledges the problem for some models.)

jtbell --
Don't find your equipment list...what Samsung receiver are you using. (Samsung acknowledges the problem for some models.)

The list is in post #2679 above.

Jerry and Zygo, thanks for the replies. I guess I need to be careful if/when I split that line. I am mainly interested in seeing if I can improve on the HD-Tivo's tuning abilities with a newer TV's ATSC tuner, without losing the Tivo capability. Sounds like I am opening a can of worms with regard to signal strength though. I already struggle with pulling in all the locals and I have a CM 4228 in the attic with a CM 7777 pre-amp. Hmmm, now I am thinking of some kind of powered split w/amp setup. But I dont want to get away from the gist of this thread. Thanks for all the help.

Re Captions:
What could be the difference between Leno Captions and the prime time shows?

Please allow me to interject where I haven't been asked.

My experience has been that if the EPG data isn't configured correctly, the receivers will not decode the CC correctly. Point in case is with older Samsung units. I have 2 SIR-T160's. They have always been hit and miss when it comes to CC. After experimenting with it over several years, I noticed that if there were any 708 captions, the box reacted correctly. If there were only 608 captions, the box would ignore them. After we put our EPG guide on line and the upload showed which programs were captioned and which were not, and we told the EPG program to use that information (not all EPG programs are the same so this varies from program to program) that now I have CC working correctly on the Samsung 160 boxes.

Again this varies from EPG program to EPG program. In the analog world, if CC is on line 21, it passes with no problem. In the digital world, if you don't tell the box via the EPG that there is CC, the box either will not show it, or if it sees CC bits there and no CC flag, it may behave in an unpredictable manner, as was the case of the Samsung 160 for me.


Your mileage may vary.

foxeng--

You are always welcome to jump in without a specific request to do so. You have solved a number of problems with your contributions over the past several years. Hopefully this latest from you will help stations to solve this problem.

Is there any update on if/when Charter will carry all of our locals in HD? Do they even have ESPN 2 HD yet?

Until they get at least all of our locals, they will never be a serious option for many...and they are badly lagging other cable cos.

Is Bellsouth and/or Verizon doing anything with IPTV in this area or plan to?

Much of Simpsonville is on Verizon, for reasons I don't fully understand, and they don't even offer DSL. I can only assume the lack on investment in the infrastructure is due to the small subscriber base here. I heard a rumor that this doughnut hole of subscribers is due to some old GTE acquisition.

For the serious hdtv enthusiast, it's basically D* or E* right?

Is there any update on if/when Charter will carry all of our locals in HD? Do they even have ESPN 2 HD yet?No ESPN2-HD. Nothing new since...October, I think, when they added Cinemax-HD and one of the local PBS affiliates.

I'd tend to think they won't bother with our locals until Dish or DirecTV start their LIL stuff and basically force their hand.

Until they get at least all of our locals, they will never be a serious option for many...and they are badly lagging other cable cos.What are the other local cable providers' HD lineups like? I remember reading that Northland has WLOS, but their other local offers are the same as Charter's, and their selection of national channels is quite a bit worse. (It's only locals and ESPN-HD and NFL-HD; no Universal HD, Discovery, TNT, HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, HDNets, INHDs, etc.)

For the serious hdtv enthusiast, it's basically D* or E* right?Well, I've never used them, but at least if posts on the HDTV Programming forum are any indication, D* is awfully lackluster, and E* seems to be heading in that direction (it's always hard to get an accurate depiction on an enthusiast forum like this since there's so much hyperbole). D* has ESPN2-HD, the special events channel, and NFL games. Minus sports, their programming doesn't seem overly compelling compared to Charter. E*'s big advantage is the Voom channels. I'd think the most compelling reason to switch from Charter to D*/E* would really be just to get away from Charter, not quite as much because of the actual selection of channels.

Is there any update on if/when Charter will carry all of our locals xxx

For the serious hdtv enthusiast, it's basically D* or E* right?

There is reasonably good OTA for many of us. LIL HD on D* is probably a year away in that this Market rank is in the 30s.

I receive the PBS station out of VA, WSBN 47/ DT 32. They have had PSIP problems for months. Before this, I had no problems with them on my Zenith SAT 520. The have just completed a PSIP, Guidebuilder and encoder overhaul. They changed their PID values to the recommended values. My receiver is still reverting between 32-1 and 47-1 every other time that I tune to the station.
Does anyone have any ideas why this problem of reverting back and forth between the actual and virtual channel continues after this overhaul?

What are the other local cable providers' HD lineups like? I remember reading that Northland has WLOS, but their other local offers are the same as Charter's, and their selection of national channels is quite a bit worse. (It's only locals and ESPN-HD and NFL-HD; no Universal HD, Discovery, TNT, HBO, Showtime, Cinemax, HDNets, INHDs, etc.)

I called Northland this week and they only have 2 local channels, WSPA and the PBS channel. The only other HD channels were ESPN and NFL Network HD.

I asked when they thought they might have the other locals, and they said they didn't know when.

Oh well, fortunately this is the last NFL game on WLOS, since next year Monday Night football is gone.

I have Northland's HD Package. We get FOX, CBS, PBS locals in HD.

Ah. Okay. Someone reported earlier that Northland's listings on websites like Zap2it were listing WLOS-D, and I took that to be correct.

What is 33-100 UNC-DA??

I would like to ask the group's opinion about my situation before I go back into the HD arena. I live in Gaffney, SC close to the NC state line. I am thinking about buying a DirecTV HD receiver and using an antenna to get locals. Does anyone think I will be able to get any decent reception with an indoor antenna? I had previously purchased one of those USDTV set top receivers with an outdoor antenna, but I split the signal twice and could only get 3.1 out of Charlotte. I didn't realise that splitting it weakened it that dramatically. This time I would like to use an indoor antenna so I would not have to split the signal, but I live a fairly good distance from most of the towers. I am most interested in WLOS obviously for the Super Bowl, but I just really wanted the opinions of the group because I have read a lot of previous posts, and you guys really know your stuff! Thanks in advance for all of your help.

Brent

Antenna web is your best source for an indication of your ability to receive local HD signals.
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx
Obstructions between you and the transmitters are important considerations, but a very good indication is how well you receive Channel 13, although digital transmission may be entirely different (and better). But if Channel 13 is clean and ghost free, I suspect you will receive WLOS-DT with a good antenna installation. Set-top antennas only provide a good signal for close, line-of-site transmission paths. For quality reception, I strongly suggest either an in the attic installation or a rooftop antenna. The 6000 altitude of the WLOS antenna does a good job getting the signal over most mountains in your area, but you may find that the Charlotte stations are available.
Good luck.

I just installed the D* HR10-250 this weekend...I'm very happy so far!

For now, I'm using the Terk TV5 as my OTA in my attic. I'm getting all the local HD programming as shown below in my antennaweb info. WLOS is my weakest signal and WUNF is my strongest even though they both shown as the same distance and compass orientation? WNTV is also weak sometimes; however, I realize it is my only VHF (I guess the TV5 is better for UHF).

With no change in setup or weather conditions, the signal for WLOS seems to drop to a very low signal sometimes and then just come back to a "normal" (for me high-50's) level. Is this something that the station causes? or is it on my end?

* yellow - uhf WYFF-DT 4.1 NBC GREENVILLE SC 38° 37.7 59
* red - uhf WHNS-DT 21.1 FOX ASHEVILLE NC 29° 39.8 57
* red - uhf WLOS-DT 13.1 ABC ASHEVILLE NC 17° 54.4 56
* red - vhf WNTV-DT 9.1 PBS GREENVILLE SC 63° 37.5 9
* red - uhf WSPA-DT 7.1 CBS SPARTANBURG SC 52° 52.4 53
* blue - uhf WASV-DT 62.1 UPN ASHEVILLE NC 36° 45.8 45
* blue - uhf WUNF-DT 33.1 PBS ASHEVILLE NC 17° 54.4 25

Thanks in advance!

"With no change in setup or weather conditions, the signal for WLOS seems to drop to a very low signal sometimes and then just come back to a "normal" (for me high-50's) level. Is this something that the station causes? or is it on my end?"

The problem is most likely on your end. I have the same receiver and pick up WLOS-DT with a steady signal in the low 80's.

Apps1-

Which antenna are you using? Where is it located - roof, attic, set-top?

I think I need a different antenna. Last night all of my signals (except WUNF - still solid 90's) were all "bouncing" from 0 to 40's & 50's. I thought it may be the weather. But, still same this morning and no rain/clouds?

I may try the Channel Master 4228 in my attic?

CurtE--"I may try the Channel Master 4228 in my attic?"
A good idea...Multipath can cause signal fluctuations, and a better antenna can improve that.

[QUOTE=CurtE]

With no change in setup or weather conditions, the signal for WLOS seems to drop to a very low signal sometimes and then just come back to a "normal" (for me high-50's) level. Is this something that the station causes? or is it on my end?

The separation between 13 and 7 is very wide, 46 degrees in your case. I am across the river from you and about 30 miles further away from the transmitters. I use a cm 4248 with amp (mounted 25 ft. above the ground). my separation is 25 degrees between 13 & 7. The 4248 is directional and I have to get the exact spot to receive all four stations, without rotation. 13 is my weakest signal (74 on a ProBrand receiver) but will hold steady most of the time, at 70 they (I) really have problems. I do not experience a signal drop as you have described. You may need to get on the roof with more gain. However if you go very directional, with your separation you may need a rotor. Oh well, that's just my opinion. Good luck.

Apps1-

Which antenna are you using? Where is it located - roof, attic, set-top?

I think I need a different antenna. Last night all of my signals (except WUNF - still solid 90's) were all "bouncing" from 0 to 40's & 50's. I thought it may be the weather. But, still same this morning and no rain/clouds?

I may try the Channel Master 4228 in my attic?

I am using the 91XG from Antennas Direct with a CM7777 pre-amp mounted on my roof.

Has anyone noticed an increase in the WLOS signal tonight. I have increased from a 75 to 85 tonight? 75 was my highest strength ever. The change took place around 6 p.m. Maybe the "S" bowl will be available. Or is it just a good weather boost for tonight only?

I also got a huge boost in WLOS tonight. This is the first reliable signal I've had in weeks. And actually, it's the strongest signal I've ever gotten from WLOS.

And just in time to see Dubya in HD...yikes! Hopefully this signal holds up so I can watch something truly HD-worthy...like Kate and Sun and Claire...and the SUPER BOWL!!!

I only got a 720 resolution indication for the SOTU broadcast. W looked good and Condi was hot as usual.

Signal strength unchanged from readings earlier in the week.

I had been catching WLOS all night, but with the usual audio sync problems. Then, exactly coincidental with the State of the Union address, my audio syncs up and I have a strong signal.

A few weeks ago, it was suggested to reboot my receiver to clear up the audio sync. I had a suspision that it was on their side. Last night proved to me that the problem is on their side.

I've got faith now, that they will get it right for the Superbowl. I'm sending out invitations to the party.

I'm assuming there is no luck have Charter having WLOS added by the Superbowl? :(

I'd say there's no chance of that happening whatsoever. I'm not aware of any market where Charter is carrying a digital channel from a Sinclair-owned affiliate.

Sure there is a chance! Same chance as I have of actually scoring in the Super Bowl!

I'm new to the area and was told by a salesman in BB and CC that you can't get OTA HD in Asheville. BB said you could lock on but it would not be HD quality and CC said that he talked to the ABC rep and that they would not be turning up their signal till some point in the distant future.

Anyone have different opinions? I am currently living right off 26 west exit 25.

Thanks for the help.

I'm new to the area and was told by a salesman in BB and CC that you can't get OTA HD in Asheville. Anyone have different opinions? I am currently living right off 26 west exit 25.

Thanks for the help.
Once upon a time I was is in the market for new speakers for my audio system. I took a favorite cd that covered a wide range of the sound field that I can hear with me. I took the cd to CC, and to ensure I wasn't charged with shop lifting I took the cd to the service desk, told the young person there that I wanted to listen to this cd over their equipment and possibly purchase new speakers for my system. Her response was that " I don't think we have anything here that will play that."

So, don't pay too much attention to their advice. Go to www.antenna.org. you will find the info you need. Also according to my reception, 13.1 encreased their signal strength yesterday, and is now a steady 85 on my meter. Good luck.

lwilli13--
If you read back in this forum you will find many comments regarding successful HD/Digital reception in this area. You will also find my comment very early in this forum that the reason I started the forum was because I also was told by BB and CC that no stations in this area was broadcasting Digital signals. I knew better having been in the business. Now some three years later, it is very disconcerting to find retailers actually hurting their own business with such ignorant comments. One BB manager told me he bought his HD set only for DVDs and had never tried to pickup local signals.
Furthermore, after a couple of years of trying to get the AC-T to add some feature stories regarding the development of HDTV, and many excuses for not doing so, they finally added a column...written by a publicist for the electronics industry. Very self serving, and never a useful comment regarding local TV.

You've got to hand it to the members of this forum for trying to overcome the lame approach for developing the industry. At least, we now have local stations monitoring our comments and frequently offering assistance.
Welcome to the club.

The reason why local broadcasters are not promoting their digital channels more actively themselves is probably because they lose Nielsen ratings points when viewers migrate from analog to digital. As I understand it, Nielsen currently does not measure the viewers of the digital stations, or include them with the analog viewers. So right now broadcasters actually have a disincentive against encouraging people to switch!

I think I remember reading somewhere that Nielsen is planning to start measuring digital viewership sometime soon. Between that and the hard analog cutoff in about three years, and the rising sales of HDTVs, we may see more public-awareness activity this year.

WLOS is now increasing their power from 5 pm until 11 pm every day. That is why many of you (me too) have seen an increase in signal strength this week.

They seem to know of the issues many viewers have had with their digital signal recently, and I do believe that they are making an effort to improve reception.

Last night was the first time I've been able to reliably get WLOS ever.

High hopes for the Super Bowl.

Hi there- I have been reading y'all for months and thought I would register.
Quickly about my situation, I have D* HD DVR, Samsung DLP (720p), and a channel master 4228, and live on the SE shadow of Paris Mntn. I was receiving all of the OTA's up 'till Christmas when for some reason they dropped out. After reaiming now I can only pick up 7.1. Any ideas?
Oh, D* granted a ABC waiver so no proplem for the SB

WLOS is now increasing their power from 5 pm until 11 pm every day. That is why many of you (me too) have seen an increase in signal strength this week.

They seem to know of the issues many viewers have had with their digital signal recently, and I do believe that they are making an effort to improve reception.

This is fantastic news...and it's the first real sign of effort I've seen from WLOS. Kudos to whoever is behind this decision.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that they have the power cranked up as high as possible for the Super Bowl.

After reaiming now I can only pick up 7.1. Any ideas?


I would may sure all connections are tight, and no moisture build up in the connections. A good lead-in as been a benefit to me. For many months my ota program guide was always an hour off and I could not correct it. I installed new lead in and the guide has been correct ever since. Good luck, hope that's your problem.

I also noticed the increase in WLOS power. Earlier in the week, my strength was in the 30' and 40's........last night was consistant around 70%

new TV questions: Guys, I am pleased to report I finally bought a new HDTV with built in ATSC tuner and QAM capabilities (a Sony A10). Couple of questions: I have both D* and basic cable (at least what I think is basic cable). I am running two satellite feeds into the D* HD Tivo unit and the cable line into the Sony's RF cable input. Did a setup last nite and lo and behold the Tv detected about 80+ analog channels and 60+ digital channels, including several HD channels, and believe it or not at least one channel that seems to be devoted to adult programming. It must be an unencrypted PPV channel because someone, somewhere, is using a DVR unit to fastforward, rewind etc, this channel, not that I'm watching or anything. So what is going on? Is one of my neighbors watching PPV and it is coming thru on my line? I'm only paying for basic cable (for TWC) so I'm inclined to call Charter. I know I've read about the unencrypted HD stuff somewhere in this forum, but I can't remember where. Any feedback is appreciated.

Way to go Chattanooga... to bad we are stuck with Sinclair ABC station

http://www.newschannel9.com/engine.pl?station=wtvc&id=3378&template=breakout_story1.shtml&dateformat=%M+%e,%Y

Is just me, or is WLOS back sliding. Signal has dropped back to 75 or lower, after an increase to 85 earlier this week??

Got my new Dish 211 last night , scanned for locals and got 12-1 WXII out of Winston-Salem with a lock and picture. Seems to be a very good OTA unit.

Is just me, or is WLOS back sliding. Signal has dropped back to 75 or lower, after an increase to 85 earlier this week??


My WLOS-DT SS is at 90 this morning.

Anyone...what is the 33-100 UNC-DA that I am now receiving from WUNF-DT?

Regarding the question of changing signal strength, I have always had a signal fluctuation on all channels from time to time over the past three years I have been observing. It did not normally affect viewing. WLOS has seemed slightly weaker during the past month or so, and now is fairly steady at its uaual 77% but I know of no recent transmission changes. It could have happened; I no longer have communications with WLOS because I quoted here a statement given me by WLOS. Anyone receiving info directly from WLOS?

I am recv'ing steady 90%-100% signal from WLOS....on a set of rabbit ears no less!!

$1500.00 HDTV
$15.00 rabbit ears

Not a good start to Super Bowl Sunday here. I'm getting nothing from WLOS.

WLOS messes this up.. if I have twenty people at my home watching SD Super Bowl... I will not only drop an e-mail to ABC, but I'll find out all the local advertisers in the Super Bowl, and I will let them know how WLOS charged them a lot of money, and failed to deliver to them the whole market.

John Burton

I am getting a steady picture from 13.1, but the increase in signal I experienced this past week, is no longer there, they are back in the low 70's.

Not a good start to Super Bowl Sunday here. I'm getting nothing from WLOS.

WLOS-DT has been coming in strong for me all day. Hopefully, the trend will continue. You may want to check your set up, it is very windy today.

I Live in Brevrad NC can only get a slight WLOS Signal..(20%) can get all the rest CBS,NBC, FOX..... But no Wlos..... Have a terk slim profile outdoor antenna. Guess Im outta luck. Any suggestions what antenna might pull it for me??

I also can get every OTA HD channel but ABC(WLOS). My signal is in the low 30's, weird cause i'm getting a 98% signal for fox-HD. Hmm maybe sometime this year *tv will get all the locals here.

WLOS disappeared about a month ago in the Taylors area. I now receive no signal whatsoever from them. I used to pull a 70-80% signal from Asheville consistently. What has changed?

antenna. . Any suggestions what antenna might pull it for me??

Don't know much about the Terk slim profile, but if it is directional at all, that may be your problem. From Brevard WLOS looks to be almost 180 degrees from the stations you receive. If you could rotate the terk it might solve your problem. I think rotation would be required in your area regardless of the antenna. Good Luck.

There must be somebody tweaking something somewhere. 13.1 has gone from a 73 at
3 p.m to an 82 at 5:15, or maybe a leaf fell off somewhere. They have been steady all day, at my location, with no drop outs.

Now i can get regular channel 13 clear but can not get a good signal for 13.1. I guess i will be watching the Superbowl in SD :mad:

I am totally sick of WLOS. I get WUNF, which is on the SAME FRICKIN' MOUNTAIN (perhaps even the same TOWER) 100% all day every day. PBS. Government and viewer supported. However, WLOS, the commerically owned affiliate NEVER comes in without terrible break up. It is totally unwatchable. So the largest sporting event of the year will be watched on SD cable instead. These engineers/management are being totally outdone by the PBS station!! These guys aren't worth the frickin' 200th market let alone the "35th" or whatever fake inflated market number we are. This is definitely my vent, and rant, and I am sorry if I offend anyone, but I have been patient and tried 3 different antennas, 2 different pre-amps, and 4 different tuners, including a 5th Gen LG-based one that is supposed to help with Multipath. At this point, I am in total belief that the fault lies with WLOS, and not my setup. How does the US Government expect to turn off the analog broadcasts by 2009 when people in top 50 markets still can't receive the digital ones??? WHAT A FRICKIN' JOKE WLOS IS!!!

I am totally sick of WLOS. I get WUNF, which is on the SAME FRICKIN' MOUNTAIN (perhaps even the same TOWER) 100% all day every day. PBS. Government and viewer supported. However, WLOS, the commerically owned affiliate NEVER comes in without terrible break up. It is totally unwatchable. So the largest sporting event of the year will be watched on SD cable instead. These engineers/management are being totally outdone by the PBS station!! These guys aren't worth the frickin' 200th market let alone the "35th" or whatever fake inflated market number we are. This is definitely my vent, and rant, and I am sorry if I offend anyone, but I have been patient and tried 3 different antennas, 2 different pre-amps, and 4 different tuners, including a 5th Gen LG-based one that is supposed to help with Multipath. At this point, I am in total belief that the fault lies with WLOS, and not my setup. How does the US Government expect to turn off the analog broadcasts by 2009 when people in top 50 markets still can't receive the digital ones??? WHAT A FRICKIN' JOKE WLOS IS!!!

I live approximately 50 miles out, and receive both stations fine. What you don't seem to understand is that, almost always, a received signal is a combination of direct and reflected signals. It might seem logical that if thtwo stations are on the same tower, the reception would be similar, but this is not the case. WUNF-DT is on channel 25, and WLOS-DT is on 57 (or close to it). The wavelength between these two is VERY different, so when the multipath signals combine at your location, they could very well add on one channel, but subtract on another. The effect of different wavelengths is exactly the same as the effect of moving the receiving antenna.

One thing that never ceases to amaze me is the attitude of you out these who think you know better than the stations how to fix the problems. NTSC television has been around over 50 years, while DTV is less than 10 years old, and it is much more difficult to implement correctly. Maintenance is in many cases not possible at the station, since some of the critical equipment makes use of multiple microprocessors, and it would be like asking you to repair the motherboard in your PC. Also, most stations have had decades to build up redundancy in their Analog plant, but only a few years for Digital. Also, the processing and encoding devices were primitive and extremely costly at first, so it didn't make sense to buy two. I sold the first commercially available DTV encoder to a station in Atlanta. It was almost $500K, and didn't work all that well, but the company made the commitment early, and went on the air.

It is also very true that the revenue is still primarily from the Analog stations,and the fault for this lies with everyone - the stations for not promoting HDTV, the networks for a slow roll-out, the retailers for not training their sales staff, and the consumer for not being willing to make the purchases.

Instead of complaining, let's try to be constructive. Offer reports, talk to the engineers like Doug who drop in here, and let's approach this as a development project, 'cause that's exactly what it is.

Richard--

your points are well taken. I am simply frustrated because I have done everything in MY power to receive WLOS (56-digital to be exact). As I mentioned, I tried all of that different equipment, plus, I forgot to mention, I have rotated my antenna 360 degrees while monitoring the signal, and have never had this station come in consistently. In other wierdness, I received Fox (57 digital) over the air fine for the 2004 world Series and playoffs, but shortly thereafter it dropped out and I never again received so much as a blip from them. I think calling this a development project was appropriate three years ago. How can you hope to get to the critical mass of consumers if you don't offer a product out of the "beta" stage? I, as a consumer, have invested a lot of time, effort, and money to get HDTV, and while I agree I have been in the minorty up until this year, I don't know what more I can do. I HAVE been in this forum and have tried to interact with people. Jerry Birdwell has been very helpful, but in the end, nothing has worked and I am just very very frustrated that I am sitting at home right now watching the Super Bowl on my 13" TV in SD instead of in my 120" home theater screen in HD with surround sound simply because I can't get a darn over-the-air signal!

gjlowe,
You are correct. Unitl HD is plug'n'play simple for the majority of consumers, the trip to critical mass will be a long one.

well, I had about 20 people over, and we did get WLOS all night!!!!

A few observations.

With the same signal strength, I get a great picture with no break up or sync problems whenever the ABCHD logo is displayed (State of the Union, Superbowl, NBA just prior to the Superbowl). This must be different than when the ABC (without the HD) is displayed. When only ABC is displayed is when all our problems are introduced. Including breakup, which I had riginally attributed to low signal strength. This breakup would start happening immediately during commercials, but didn't happen a single time during the game.

Anyhow, sorry for those that didn't have the Superbowl. I was praying to the football gods all week, and they saw fit to let it work out for me!

Glad the Olympics are not on WLOS.

tony

WLOS disappeared about a month ago in the Taylors area. I now receive no signal whatsoever from them. I used to pull a 70-80% signal from Asheville consistently. What has changed?
I'm in Greer, just over the Taylors/Greer line on Wade Hampton....almost behind Lowes on Wade Hampton. I've got good signal for WLOS. My tuner shows bars like a cell phone, not numbers. It goes back and forth between 6 and 7 bars. The other local channels give me 8-10 bars. Even at 6 bars, I'm not getting any drop. I watched the SB tonight without issue.

Instead of complaining, let's try to be constructive. Offer reports, talk to the engineers like Doug who drop in here, and let's approach this as a development project, 'cause that's exactly what it is.

WLOS is not at full power. As far as I know, they're the only local station that is not at full power. Get with the freaking program, get to full power, and we may not have these problems. Please don't try to make excuses for a station that can't even seem to meet the bare minimum FCC requirements (such as broadcasting at full power). Whether it's OTA or cable carriage or grotesque misuse of the airwaves for political gain...Sinclair is a worthless joke of a station operator. Worthless, incompetant, and repulsive.

Anyway, sorry about the rant. I may have had too many Iron City's tonight in celebration. I was not able to pick up a solid signal until about halftime. From then on it was smooth sailing. I guess they must have been the time they got all their hamsters running up there in Asheville.

Did anyone else experience any audio problems last night during the SB on WLOS? It's not like the audio was going out ... would just reduce in volume for about 4 or 5 seconds every 10 minutes or so. It was actually going on during the Knicks-Rockets game earlier in the afternoon too. I watched mostly WLOS pretty much all day yesterday but did not notice it on any other channels. I guess it could be my STB (Dish 942) or AV receiver.

Sorry to quetion/complain about this when some people didn't even get a signal. My picture was good the whole time -- signal strength in the mid-70s.

I am Billy Stratton and new to the area, coming from Wilmington, NC (WWAY TV3). I started with WLOS as Asst. Chief Engineer this past December and have been involved with some of the digital transmitter work since then. I can assure you that we are doing everything we possibly can to get it up and running at 100%. There are several things we are having to address right now that is the cause of our problems and there are people working around the clock to get us answers and a fix. I can't go into detail at this time about what is wrong, but I will be glad to answer any questions I can.

I understand your frustrations. Being through one digital installation (in Wilmington) I know that you guys are our eyes and ears right now for signal coverage/quality. I worked closely with several HD viewers in Wilmington to get our signal to peak performance, and will gladly do so again with you. But as was stated above, ranting will not get us anywhere as far as coverage/quality goes. I too have an HD system. I currently live in an apartment, so I don't have the "Mac Daddy" like I want. I was also disappointed that our signal is not on Charter cable since I don't have a tuner.... yet. Point being that we will depend on your input, as well as our test equipment, to iron out the wrinkles as we move forward.

As you are probably aware, the transmitter site on Mt. Pisgah is not an ordinary one (to say the least), and this adds to the difficulty of getting repairs completed.

Thank You,
Billy Stratton