Moechild: Welcome.
First, I would check for information at this web address:
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx
I would not, however, take the antenna recommendations literally, but you should also go to an orientation map at the same address for directions to the various transmitters. All stations in this area, except SCETV which is on Channel 9, are UHF and this makes for a small, easily handled antenna. I have not consulted a map for your area, but unless you are behind the ridge line running through Spartanburg, I am really surprised you are not getting WYFF and WHNS...both on tall towers and on high mountains. WLOS could be problem with its low power at this time. How well do you receive the analog transmissions for Channel 21, 62, 33 and 29? That would be a good indications for what should be usable UHF-DT reception. And, generally speaking, DT is easier to receive than Analog.

Moechild-
I live in Boiling Springs, not too far from you, I get all OTA channels except WLOS. Even from Rock Hill. What kind of antenna are you using? I have a cheap amplified UHF set top antenna (RCA). I have to turn down the gain to get WYFF! All channels come in well with no pixelation.

Moechild-
I live in Boiling Springs, not too far from you, I get all OTA channels except WLOS. Even from Rock Hill. What kind of antenna are you using? I have a cheap amplified UHF set top antenna (RCA). I have to turn down the gain to get WYFF! All channels come in well with no pixelation

mgtr,

I am using a Radio Shack VU-120XR UHF/VHF/FM 10 foot long antenna. From there, I have 75 feet of RG6 to a Turk 5X8 multiswitch. From there I have about 130 feet of RG6 to a diplexer, then another 5 feet to an LG LST-3510A HD Receiver/DVD Player. I also have Direct TV, hence the need for the diplexer.

Jerry,

I used that link from a previous post of yours to point my antenna yesterday. I would move the antenna, then have my wife to a scan. I did numerous scans within a 110 degree range. I have not tried testing any analog signals yet. I will try them and let you know.

Thanks to everyone for your help.


Moechild

Suggest as a test you connect only the antenna to the HD/TV receiver to make sure there is nothing in the present distribution system that is causing problems. Based on other responses, your area should have better reception than you have experienced. Is the multi switch amplified?
(I use a large Radio Shack in my attic on a rotor, and it's only drawback is that it is very directional and requires re-orientation for each change of station...whereas the Channel Master serves to receive all local stations from WUNF-DT on Pisgah to WSPA-DT pm Hogback in just one setting.
Neither the Pisgah stations, nor WSPA are line-of-sight, but my reception is very reliable with signal strengths ranging from 69 to 90.) I receive WLOS-DT only with the attic all-band RS antenna carefully aimed at Pisgah.

I called our (Charter Communications) customer service people today and they are taking orders for HDTV in the Greenville/Spartanburg area right now.. but to my dismay, no details. Sorry, I will dig up final info as soon as I can. The details from an earlier post here is more than likely correct, but I though I would make sure. So if you want Charter HDTV, give them a call, and let me know when you get it, and what they tell you. I think it is important for Charter to get this right, so if you have problems, please let me know, and I will pass any bad or good news on.

Thanks, and good luck!

John B.

Update.

I tried the analog and got decent signals from 4,7,21, and 29 in the morning. In the afternoon, 21 was a little degraded. 33 was very snowy all the time and I could not get 62 in at all.

I decided to try the RCA amplified rabbit ears that MGTR has. On Monday night I was able to get in WYFF, WSPA, and WHNS. I think my wife is now hooked on the picture. Last night I could get in WYFF and WHNS and not WSPA. I moved the antenna very slightly and could then get in WSPA, but not WYFF. That is the way I stand right now.

Does WYFF reduce power at 11:00 PM? I remember my signal meter showing the signal dropping right at 11:00 PM on Monday night.

This weekend I am going to try doing some more testing of my cabling. I will bring the RCA antenna up to my roof and see what I can get in with it.

BTW Jerry, my multiswitch is powered.

Thanks to everybody for their help.

Rob J.

I don't have a good contour map of your area at this time, but based on past experience I don't believe you should have a major obstruction between you and WSPA (Ch 53), WASV (Ch 62), WHNS (Ch 57) and WYFF (Ch 59). The analog signal from Ch 29, in Greenville, indicates you should receive Channel 9 DT with no problem. RF amplification has proven to be a major culprit in signal degradation, and it is very difficult to understand why you are not receiving very strong UHF signals from these station. I am anxious top hear what results you get with no amplifier in the line from the antenna to the STB. The very fact that MGTR has to reduce the gain of his amplfier even with a small antenna indicates that WYFF (59) puts a very strong signal in your area--one that could overload the amplifier.
The fact that you did not mention ghosting in the Analog review indicates you have little or no multipath problems.
The 4-bay Channel Master antenna is your best bet for setting up a high gain antenna that will receive all stations from one "compromise" setting aimed about half way between WSPA and WHNS...and if on a rotor you probably can pickup transmissions from some of the very tall towers east of Charlotte.
You need a good contour map to help determine what mountains may block you, if any. I have never noted a signal drop from WYFF at 11 p.m.

I picked up a Motorola DCT 6200 from Charter in Asheville today. They are currently charging an extra 3.00 for the HDTV box which includes the local channels and HBO and/or Showtime if you subscribe to them. For an extra 3.99 you get HDNet, HDNet Movies, and ESPN HD. On the sheet of paper that they gave me they list

770 - HDNet
771 - HDNet Movies
773 - ESPN HD
777 - HBO HD
778 - Showtime HD
784 - WYFF

WSPA should be on soon, allegedly.

I just called the 800 no for Charter and was told HD is now available. Local stations and Discovery for about $7 more and I think $4 more for ESPN and HDnet and HD net movies. BUT WYFF is the only local station he has listed now! The last I heard WYFF doesnt pass HD and NBC only has Leno and a couple of others anyway. WSPA is not listed yet! Well, its a start. I have only Cable Basic and Modem and it would cost me about $50/mo more, no way at this time of course. I mentioned on the other thread I have the Directv pkg including CBSHD East AND West. Comments, everybody?

Fordw- WYFF has been passing HD since day one. NBC has a good bit of Prime time in HD.

So, does anyone know what Charter's definition of soon is for WSPA? I really want to watch the Master's in HD, and my topography does not allow me to receive a consistent signal from WSPA. This is disappointing that CBS with the best (imo) HD programming was not included in the launch.

Picked up Moto 6200 box yesterday, was told CBS is still in negotiations. Box rent was +$3. Watched West Wing last nite, looked good, hope more stations are added soon. Set box to default to 480p instead of 480i on non HD channels, looks OK. HDPAC was 3.99 extra and included HDNet, HDNet Movies and ESPNHD.

Mike

I just emailed WSPA regarding Charter cable carrying their signal. This is the reply I just received:

Mr. Henry,

I wish I could give you some good news about an agreement with us and the cable company. The problem we are having with an agreement is, the cable company is not wanting to retransmit our entire HDTV signal. Also they do not want to carry both of our signals, digital and analog, on their system at the same time. Your continuing request with the cable company for our HDTV signal will be one of the best tools in resolving this matter.

Thanks,
Ron Peeler
Chief Engineer
WSPA/ WASV-TV
Spartanburg, SC 29303
864-587-4435
mailto:rpeeler@wspa.com




Sounds like we really need to be aggressive in contacting Charter and demanding that WSPA is added to their lineup.

Here's the canned response from Charter:

Thank you for contacting Charter Communications.

We are still negotiating contracts with local providers in your area.
We hope to have them in place sometime in the near future.

We care about the opinions of all of our customers and will keep yours
in mind as we continue to explore new product possibilities. We hope to
extend the availability of advanced services such as this to more of
our customers. In the meantime please understand the hurdles we face when
situations like this occur and be assured we are working with you, the
customer, in mind.


If you have questions or require additional assistance please contact
your local support center at the number listed below.

1-800-955-7766

Customer Care Team
Charter Communications

Apps1, of course you are right about WYFF HD. I have been trying for months, adjusting antennas to pick up WYFF and WNTV DT. I had never been able to get anything but flashes on the signal meter on WYFF until yesterday I lowered my antenna and tilted it back a little bit and have perfect reception with no dropouts since. The signal strength is low but perfectly steady. Now if there was some way to get ABC HD. On the other hand I received WNTV pretty good last summer but cant get a thing now.---- One thing I dont understand about Digital is some days signal strength is steady and others is varies wildly with dropouts even on a strong station using an indoor antenna. Ch 21 seems to be bad about this.

Whats the deal with WYFF-DT? The last 2 Sundays during American Dreams the signal has fluctuated wildly, 82 down to 70 then 0 and back up and then the same.they need to power up and quit shafting the viewers. We watch their ads and we have the money that their advertisers want, not the folks sitting in front of a 13" with a clothes hanger for an antenna.The sooner they understand where the folks with disposable income are the better.

enoree-
I have been beating that drum for some time now, but I don't know how to get the message across that we are sitting here with money to spend. Treat us right, and we will spend it.

3-30, 7pm, WYFF-DT seems to be off the air. I had been getting perfect reception. Can someone confirm this?

Right - it was definitely off at 6:30 PM on 3/30, but back on at least by 9PM. A real mystery.

As I mentioned in previous posts, I could never pick up WYFF-DT, just flashes on my signal meter, until about 10 days ago. After adjusting my antenna, a $79.95 all channel Radio Shack, to maximum height and tilting it, I got perfect steady reception for about a week until the station went off the air for a few hours 3-30. My Dish 6000 needs about 50 reading and I was getting 60 to 70. I thought I had it made as WYFF is my only ota network station. When they came back on the air 3-30 I havent been able to pick them up since. I just now spoke to a WYFF engineer and he says they are on the same power and havent changed anything. I am very unhappy. Has any one had a similar happening?

WYFF is coming in the same as always for me. Are you using a pre-amp?

Re WYFF-DT

WYFF-DT usually is stable, but is line of sight for me. I receive two stations that change slightly with weather and neither are line of sight. The first is Greenville's DT-9 and this may be somewhat due to co-channel from Charlotte's TV-9; the other is DT-25 from Pisgah. It moves a bit on the horizon and sometimes requires a slight antenna adjustment as the seasons change and somewhat weather related. Since the station has been at full power, it is much more stable.
When I first installed a new antenna (4-bay Channel Master), I tried several places that were acted the same as your antenna...but I finally found a "sweet spot" and now I receive all stations with one orientation except for very unusual weather conditions. Give me a call on the phone sometime and lets discuss your location and problems.

jb and Apps1 thanks for your replies. I dont have an amp. I may have a loose connection, its hard to tell as readings on other channels are so weird. I have a Silver Sensor indoor antenna which in one position gives a maximum reading on WLOS and nothing on WUNC and another WUNC is greater than WLOS.

I just saw where Fox 21 is going to be off the air for a few hours for "equipment upgrades." Any idea if this is related to them putting out a HD or "faux HD"???

Originally posted by Fragman
I just saw where Fox 21 is going to be off the air for a few hours for "equipment upgrades." Any idea if this is related to them putting out a HD or "faux HD"???

I would bet it has to do with with their new analog transmitter install since they will have to uncouple the old transmitter from the antenna and couple in the new transmitter. Since the analog will be off the air, there isn't any need to have the DTV on at the same time serving such a small audience.

To all -- regarding HDTV growth.

This web address has recent information regarding the growth of HDTV:

http://www.instat.com/press.asp?ID=925&sku=IN0401241MB

I sent this information to both WLOS and WHNS (among others) in hopes of greating greater interest in joining the HD club. Mild interest was shown.

Why is WHNS spending any money on analog equipment?

Originally posted by enoree
Why is WHNS spending any money on analog equipment?

Simply, because the analog equipment pays the light bill to run the DTV transmitter. Also the analog transmitter that WHNS had was beyond its last leg and when analog ceases, the new transmitter can be converted to digital easily, something the old analog transmitter could never have done.

Is anyone else having problems with the audio on WSPA? During "Along Came a Spider" last night it was plauged with a hissing problem. Is it just me?

Watched Still Standing last night, audio was really out of sync . Switched over to WBTV-DT, no sync problem at all, WSPA needs to work on the sync issue.

Has anyone else noticed a loss in signal strength from WYFF-DT?

Yes, I'm getting a weaker signal for WYFF as well.
Also, WSPA has their audio issues again with that hiss and some lip synch problems as well.

I live in Clemson and will be getting an HDTV in the summer. Does anybody know how the OTA transmission is with the local channels. Any recommendation on antennas, amps, etc? Thanks for your help.

TK

Originally posted by TigerKid
I live in Clemson and will be getting an HDTV in the summer. Does anybody know how the OTA transmission is with the local channels. Any recommendation on antennas, amps, etc? Thanks for your help.

TK

I am 15 miles west of you, on Lake Hartwell near Westminster.

I have a Channel Master 4228 about 12 feet above a two-storey building, at ground elevation of about 700 Ft.

I am using a Channel Master 7777 Preamp on the mast, and about 60 feet of RG-6.

I get "perfect" signals(80-100%) from WYFF, WSPA, WUNC, Good signals(~60%) from WLOS, and WHNS, a weaker(28-35%) but still usable signal from WASV, and, believe it or not since this is a UHF antenna, an acceptable signal(60-70%) from SC-ETV whose DTV is on Channel 9!!

I am very pleased with this combination.

Richard

By the way, I have a couple of antennas you can try if you want to borrow them. If you find something that works well, we can make a deal. I also have a couple of Radio Shack preamps you could try, but they are not up to the level of the Channel Master.

Originally posted by TigerKid
I live in Clemson and will be getting an HDTV in the summer. Does anybody know how the OTA transmission is with the local channels. Any recommendation on antennas, amps, etc? Thanks for your help.

TK

I also live on Lake Hartwell in Clemson. I'm using a UHF only Winegard and CM 7777 preamp. My reception is decent for WYFF, and I get little on the other stations. WSPA dropouts out constantly. I live at the base of a large hill (cross the lake on the way to Daniel HS on the right), so I think that is my major problem. I have gone to Charter in hopes of getting locals in HD, but so far they only have NBCHD. Depending on your topography, I think you will be ok.

Wright

Thanks guys for the advice. One thing that I forgot to add (and is a big one) is that I live in an apartment. I can't have anything on the roof, so the antennas that you were talking about wouldn't work for me. I wish I could cause that would solve any problems. I have been looking at the Terk TV55 (indoor/outdoor antenna) sold at BB, CC, and many others. I guess my question is this: Is there any antenna that can be mounted on a deck/porch or an indoor one that will work for the area? Will anything like that work or is it a given that I would need to have a Channel Master attached to the roof? Thanks.

TK

I have had zero luck with indoor antennas around here. Check the return policy and try it out. Check out antennaweb.org and titantv.com for some other tips on choosing antennas. Good luck.

Wright

Originally posted by TigerKid
Thanks guys for the advice. One thing that I forgot to add (and is a big one) is that I live in an apartment. I can't have anything on the roof, so the antennas that you were talking about wouldn't work for me. I wish I could cause that would solve any problems. I have been looking at the Terk TV55 (indoor/outdoor antenna) sold at BB, CC, and many others. I guess my question is this: Is there any antenna that can be mounted on a deck/porch or an indoor one that will work for the area? Will anything like that work or is it a given that I would need to have a Channel Master attached to the roof? Thanks.

TK

Federal law does allow apartment dwellers to have outside antennas. Check out this web page from the FCC to see what your rights are. It may surprise you want you can do. http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

Hey guys, need some help. My Silver Sensor works great inside for WSPA-DT only but is no good in the attic with a 100' run of RG6(still good for WSPA). My next step is a larger UHF antenna either in the attic or on the roof. I have not even sniffed WYFF, WLOS, or WHNS digital offerings but need to since now they are offering more with the Olympics, NFL, etc. I would really like to get all of these. What type of antenna do I need? Do I need a rotor or pre-amp? (what's the advantage of the pre-amp and does it need a power source?) I live in the Sugar Creek subdivision, zip 29650. thanks in advance.

calvinb- Check your pm's.

Hey everyone,
Thanks to Voom, I'm now watching sat. and OTA HDTV in the Greenville area. Calvinb: I'm not far from Sugar Creek... I'm in River Downs myself. The Stealth antenna that came with Voom only got me WSPA and WNTV (PBS) so I got a silver sensor and with it just hooked up in the room, I'm getting digital WSPA/CBS, WYFF/NBC, WLOS/ABC, WHNS/Fox, and WASV/UPN but now I can't get PBS and neither gets WFBC/WB. I may try it in the attic next or go with a better outdoor antenna...I like that national PBS HiDef feed they're including, and I would like to try for the NC PBS as well...

Looking forward to further discussion & advancement of Digital/HDTV in the upstate and wnc areas!

Is there any info out there about local channels becoming available in HD from Charter?

Any idea why we don't get Discovery HD?

Is it just me or does ESPN usually broadcast in 4:3?

I can't seem to get info from charter over the phone.

KenCave, I am impressed that your Silver Sensor is picking up all those channels, especially WLOS-DT with its bad rap and all. I MUST be in a bad location for picking up those signals. I've tried the SS in the attic and even tried an amplified Phillips/Magnavox indoor antenna with no luck. Maybe its my Samsung 360 STB? I've got lots of hardwoods behind the house plus the house is brick so maybe I am just S.O.L. I guess I will be calling Channel Master and shimmying up on the roof soon. Anyone got any suggestions about model numbers for CM outdoor antennas? I am 25 miles from the WYFF transmitter, 31 miles from WHNS-DT, and 46 miles from WLOS. I WANT my HD signals.

My house is at the top of a small hill and my HT is on the 2nd floor but.. There are lots of tall trees around and the house is brick as well. I don't have direct LOS to any towers b/c of the trees. My tuner is whatever's in the Voom STB by Motorola. Maybe I'm just lucky :D

:KenCave

Calvinb- I have a roof mounted CM 4221 with a CM 7777 pre-amp and I pick up all channels.

Originally posted by Spiked
Is there any info out there about local channels becoming available in HD from Charter?

Any idea why we don't get Discovery HD?

Is it just me or does ESPN usually broadcast in 4:3?

I can't seem to get info from charter over the phone.

It just so happens that I e-mailed Charter the following yesterday:

I subscribe to the HDTV offerings of Charter. I am aware that your company is trying to come to terms with WSPA in carrying their HDTV channel and that they want to extort channel space etc from you. I do hope that a favorable outcome can be reached with them and with WLOS and WHNS when they begin their HDTV broadcasts. I was wondering why you do not carry UNC-TV's HDTV. I can't imagine that they are preventing Charter from carrying their channel, but I could be wrong about that. Your (non canned ;) ) response to my questions will be appreciated.

They responded with:

Thank you for contacting Charter Communications.

In order to carry the UNC-TV HDTV we would have to have an open channel. At this time we do not. We do hope to be able to add the broadcast channels you listed in the very near future. We do appreciate your comments/feedback as they do give us insight as to customer wants.

Thank you

Charter Communications

Thanks for the update.

I did call again yesterday, and the girl told me if a local channel was broadcasting in HD, the lower, normally SD channel, would have the HD broadcast. Yeah right, I tried it anyway, but no dice as I expected.

It sounds like we'll just have to wait and see.

After a month in Washington DC, I found the sound for WSPA-DT was finally in sync...for one day. This weekend was probably the worst in the two years I have watched/listened. I don't see any recent comments here...have all of you given up trying to get the station to solve both the excessive loudness and the sync?

That's my biggest complaint with the local HD feeds - audio sync. Obviously WSPA is the worst, but the other networks are not great either. Even my wife notices the problem! I was flipping channels yesterday and one of the "lawyer type" shows was on a courtroom screen. The judge hit his gavel twice to call order and the sound was excruciatingly out of sync.

But heck, I've even switched over to the charter SD feed only to find the audio out of sync there too for those local channels.

Well,folks we are about a week away from the within 90 days that WLOS said it would have HD up and running. Does anyone have ANY doubt that the 90 days will come and go with nary an HD signal out of WLOS ?As for WSPA and the sync problem, I was told by one of their engineers that they have a box ordered that will fix this problem,they are not sure when they will get it yet, but it will be fixed when they get it.

HERE IS SOME ENCOURAGING INFORMATION FROM JIM CARRIER OF WLOS.

CAT is still having trouble with our new generator. Tomorrow they hope
to have the problems corrected. If they are correct we will test it
off-line for a couple of weeks. If no more problems develop, we'll put
it on line (mid June). At that time DTV power will be brought up.

We're trying to have network HD passthrough up by the end of August.

Jim

Hopefully in time for MNF!! (I haven't watched anything on ABC since the end of football season!)

Re WSPA-DT Audio:
There is hope. Here is a response from WSPA's Ron Wheeler:

<We are aware of the audio lip syn problems. We are learning the problems that are associated with audio and video converts. In the last six months we have gone to a tapeless format, centralization and it has covered us up. I hope we will be able to clear the lip syn problem up in the next few weeks.

Thanks,
Ron Peeler>

Hello all, I'm planning on ordering a UHF antenna thru a local supplier and need some advice. I'm leaning towards the Channel Master 4221 which has a range of 45 miles. Will this help me receive WLOS-DT and WHNS-DT? I know WHNS isn't really broadcasting HD right now but I'm very hopeful for the future (aren't we all?). I know that WLOS is broadcasting from Mt. Pisgah but I don't know where WHNS transmits from. I live just north of I-85 at the Pelham Road exit (#54, the Sugar Creek neighborhood). My question is, how far am I from those two transmitters? Will one antenna get all the signals or do I need a more directional one for WLOS-DT? Do I need more range than 45 miles? Thanks for any help in advance.

The Channel Master 4-bay antenna is a very good antenna for UHF in this area (and the only thing that will beat that is a heavy CM 8-bay. It's beam pattern allows me to pickup all the stations in this area over more than a 90 degree angle from one compromise setup; rare but depending on your circumstances it could work for you. However, be prepared to use a rotator for most reliable reception. As for WHNS, the first page of this thread outlines locations and power status of all stations in the area. WHNS is on Rich Mountain, near Caesar's Head and is the tallest tower in this area. Also, use the website for antenna locations from your address whose name is provided in the first few entries at the start of this Western Carolinas forum.
For more info on the antenna, see: http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4221.html

Installed the 4221 over the weekend complete with rotor. Put it in the attic. I am pleased to report total success! Only channel I am not getting is WB 40-1, but I am receiving 13-1 (ABC)and 13-2 (WB). Needless to say, I am thrilled. Many thanks to all on this board for their suggestions and advice. By the way, did anyone watch the NBA Finals last night? That didn't look like HD to me. I am assuming WLOS-DT is still having issues passing through HD. Oh well....

calvinb
Greenville's WB40 is owned/operated by WLOS and is carried as a second channel on WLOS DT, maps to 13-2. Same tower as WLOS (Pisgah). So you are getting all available. How well do you receive 25, mapping as 33-1,2,3,4 depending on the time of day, from PBS Asheville? Also on Pisgah. Do you need to turn your antenna?
See posting above quoting Jim Carrier regarding WLOS and HD. It will be the end of August before WLOS-ABC goes HD for this area.

Jerry, I am receiving all of the channel 33's quite well. I will check the signal strength tonite and get back to you. I do not have to rotate the antenna. What is interesting with 13-1 and 13-2 is the S.S. fluctuates from 45% to 10%, back and forth. Some pixelization but nothing major. I will check again tonight and post tomorrow.

Calvinb...fyi, Channel 25 is at maximum power; WLOS is very low power. Compare the two.
Thanks

Originally posted by Spiked
Any idea why we don't get Discovery HD?

Is it just me or does ESPN usually broadcast in 4:3?
I'm curious about Discovery HD as well. One of my managers at work was a tester for Charter's HD service before it launched and Discovery HD was part of the lineup during that period.

As for ESPN, yes, most of their programming is 4:3. They finally stopped stretching 4:3 content after the first HD SportsCenter broadcast last night. (Except for the ticker, for some reason.)

Here is the latest from WHNS-DT/Fox"
>>
I am sorry for the delay in getting this information to you but I wanted to be sure to get you the latest update. As things currently stand we will be on the air with HD no later than the end of the year (12-31-04). We are working to move the date up to possibly mid October but it is unlikely that all of the pieces will be in place by that time.


Jerry W. Garvin<<

Hello, I seem to have lost my signal from WYFF-DT (4-1), was wondering if any of you guys are having any problems or not. All other channels are coming in great. Thanks up front for any info you can give.

I'm not sure if your signal came back or not. I am watching 4-1 right now and the signal is great (I'm located in Greer too).

EDIT - I had to post to see what time it REALLY is. You posted 20 minutes ago and I've been watching 4-1 for the last 45 minutes or so - the Regan Funeral Procession - without any dropouts or loss of signal. So it must be on your end. :(

EDIT - I just checked the signal strength and it is in its normal range, so I have no major drop in signal strength.

Thanks for the info, I think that I may have some tree and/or alignment problems, I tuned to 4-1 and now I'am getting a very low signal. Thanks again.

13-1 has been problematic the last 48 hours or so at my location. Anyone else having problems? Are these signals subject to disruption from thunderstorms, etc? Maybe that is the problem. It was terrible last nite (Wed). Jerry, you are correct: freq: 25 is a very strong signal for me whereas WLOS is 35-45% at best and often gives me no picture at that strength. Very frustrating, but I guess it would be worse if they actually showed HD and I still couldn't see it. I guess we have to wait until they pump up the power.

Re DT during thunder storms and changing weather:

My experience is that electrical storms cause reception problems especially when between my RX antenna and the TX antenna. To a less extent, storms cause occasional pixelization when beyond the TX but generally in the same direction from me. My greatest problems have been during seasonal changes...from winter to spring and back...and this lasts some two weeks.
But the problems on UHF are nothing compared to VHF-DT. Channel 9 out of Greenville, being on the same channel as Charlotte's 9, is subject to both co-channel problems and WX problems. My concern is that stations will be switching back to VHF (their option under present FCC indications) and that is going to present a whole new set of problems.
Having said this...DT is much more reliable than analog!

From Wayne Estabrooks, UNC-TV:

A firmware upgrade for the Samsung SIR-T165 is available. For details, see
www.samsungusa.com/stb_upgrade

Ben Szobody has a front page article about HDTV in The Greenville News today. It is nice to have HDTV getting some attention in our local news. I think Ben did a great job with the article but I wish someone would write an article that focuses more on how "great" the picture is and how much fun it is to have a group over to watch a program like the Superbowl in HD. It is important for people not to focus on just the problems with HDTV.

I was disappointed to hear that WLOS has pushed back its HD date to the fall season. I guess now we need to cross our fingers that by Christmas time that both WLOS and Fox get their act together and join WYFF and NBC in broadcasting HD. Until then I am looking forward to the Olympics.

To all:
For those of you interested in recording HD with your computer, here is a recent development:
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1615503,00.asp

Folks:

The HDTV story from Tuesday's Greenville News is here, if you want to read it:
http://greenvilleonline.com/news/business/2004/06/21/2004062133740.htm

It includes info on recent developments and potential technology advances in the near future.

The last story I wrote on the subject, from January, dealt more with the amazing nature of the technology, as suggested above. It's still on the Web here:

http://greenvilleonline.com/news/business/2004/01/12/2004011222595.htm

Going forward, I'd like to hear from posters here about aspects/angles of HDTV that you think hasn't been touched yet. Tuesday's story was long enough, and I'm writing for general readers who don't always know what HDTV is, so plenty of technical details and consumer issues are left to be explored.

What do you think is most important going forward? Jerry has mentioned the compression issue, which can degrade the picture. Others have repeated that all analog TVs will eventually be junk, at that might make a lot of people mad. Does Charter's new package advance the HDTV gospel, or will it take something else?

E-mail me your ideas and suggestions at bszobody@greenvillenews.com.

I'd like to hear from some new people, and maybe more HDTV-endowed folks in more saturated markets.
Ben

calvinb

Did you attach the rotor part of the antenna to any part of the attic. How did you run the wiring from the attic to the TV? I am having difficulty in finding openings in the attic to bring the cable outside and then to bring it to the living room where the TV is situated? How did you solve that?

The Braves channel mentioned in Ben's article is now showing up in TitanTV's and TV Guide's listings for Charter in the Greenville/Spartanburg area, along with TNT-HD, another apparent new addition.

Ravichandler, my father in law and I mounted the rotor on a 4x4, then bolted the 4x4 to an old entertainment center shelf that is heavy and supports the antenna. It is now mobile! Mounted the antenna and mast to the rotor for a total height of about 5'. Lots of space in my attic. Ran the RG6 and 22 gauge wire down the middle of my home through two stories to my crawl space using the preexisting gap used by the A/C power supply and several other wires. Fished the wires through using some string with a weight on it. Fished it on over to the hole in the floor behind my entertainment center. Used about 100' of RG6 and about 80' of wire (thermostat wire from Lowe's). Important to note that I have an A/C unit in the attic with wires running to the crawl space. Don't know if most homes are like this. Just find the large black conduits running down and look under the house to see if they come all the way to the crawl space. My father in law figured this out (he's an engineer). PM me and I'll fill in the rest.

I was wondering how all of you with Charter HD like the service so far? I work for Charter (on the media side) and I like to pass on comments to our folks on the Charter Communication side.

Thanks,

Anyone else notice audio issues last night on WSPA-DT during the movie "The Patriot"?

I have continuting problems with the audio sync on WSPA-DT and you will find in this forum the response from Ron Peeler with respect to promised fix(es). I assume the station is still trying to solve the problem based on recent observations. Just as disconcerting is the extra loud audio from the station, compared to all other DT broadcasts in the area UNCTV is now almost as loud as WSPA.

Charter Asheville HD comments. --- On my 50 in 16x9 TV the cable box gave a small picture in the center of the screen on HD. Charter sent a man Friday who tried to phone a tech person without success. I then downladed the Motorola DCT 6200 manual and found by turning the box OFF and pressing Menu a white screen with black letters appears. By changing settings I was able get the HD pic to fill the screen.-- Calling toll free no, people dont know that WYFF is the only local channel??--- I hope they can at least add local CBS and PBS soon. I know WLOS and Sinclair are the holdup on ABC. No local HD on WYFF until 8pm and then very little this summer. They need Discovery HD, by far the best HD channel.--- Very happy to get the Braves games.--- WYFF Digital is surprisingly clear and colorful --- Very happy to get pack with VH1-Country, favorite channel, no commercials only $4 extra.
:D

FordW thanks for the feedback. I'm going to pass your reply to the Charter people. I had the same problem you did when I first got my cable box. A guy a Tweeter here in Greenville told me about the "Power off/Menu" setting. Also, FYI, Just between all of us on this board, but we are working with the Discovery Channel, and I hope something happens real soon. When I can talk about it or anything else, I'll post it here. Funny thing is, sometimes you "guys" here know it before I do. But I'll keep trying.

Anyone else? I'll take Good or bad comments

I really like Charter HD. I just wish there were more channels, especially local.

The braves channel is awesome - thanks a ton for that.

But missing out on Discovery, PBS, and CBS, as mentioned above, is very annoying. Especially since I was told all available local channels would be included in the package. The promotion is misleading.

Any time you call customer service, no one has a clue about HD programming. Some feedback about exactly what is going on would be very much appreciated.

If Voom did not require a land based phone line, I would have probably already dumped charter tv altogether. I rarely watch any SD channels anymore.

I do realize this is an infant technology and offering, so I am willing to be patient until fall. But if there is not a more robust HD offering, or if I need to do so to get NFL games in HD, I'll be going satellite.

Thanks for asking. :-)

Spiked, thanks for the response. I can tell you Charter is working with WSPA to get on by the fall, but I just don't know if that is going to happen. As far as Fox goes, don't look for them to be HD until December, maybe. I bet there is some pressure for them to be HD by the Super Bowl. Fox the network will be showing game in HD, but WHNS can't do it yet.

There is more stuff coming up soon, so stay with it. The new PVR's are in the pipeline, I just don't know when they are coming out. It will be the Moxi system, and at least on paper it sounds "sweet".

If you have problems, try Charter customer service first, and if you still have problems, let me know here or through PM.

Thanks,

I tried and dropped Charter HD. There just wasn't enough content to pay the extra price. I originally got it because of the promise of NBC and CBSHD, since I have not had reliable OTA. I have since gone with Voom, and I get those channels just fine OTA now. The picture quality was good, you just need to add more content.

In the programming section, they list the relatively few Fox stations that are not up to speed with 720P, and, lucky us, Greenville is one of the few major markets where that is true. Does anybody know why or what is happening? I mean, we don't even have Sinclair to kick around this time.

Mgtr: See my posting on 6/9 above regarding WHNS.

Just wondering: is it not possible to run a UHF antenna to the Motorola Charter STB's and pick up the local DT's, along with the FREE HD offerings? If not, I would be seriously upset with Charter for offering an inferior box. At least with DirecTV you get that option, and with a little work, can pick up the local OTA offerings.

>is it not possible to run a UHF antenna to the Motorola Charter STB's

Nope, sure isn't. I thought that there would be since all locals were supposedly included, but no dice.

It seems I may be dumping Charter after all. They still have terrible customer service. For some reason I did not receive last month's bill. I just got the double bill a few days ago right before the holiday, and now I have a termination notice.

I called and they told me mailing the check today won't reach them in time to not disconnect. I have to come in to pay in person to continue service, since they won't take my AmEx over the phone.

For someone who pays their bill on time every month for the past two years, uses charter at home for cable tv, HD, and internet, and charter at my office for internet, I'd think there would be some leeway.

Sorry for the rant, fed up here.

I am going back to DirecTv because of the OTA issue and the Sunday Ticket.

Spiked-
Sounds like your screen name is appropriate! And Charter wonders why not everybody loves them. We live in a new housing development, and Charter put digital cable in front of everybody's house. Guess how many house on our street (out of 7) signed up? Zero - they all went to DirecTV because of past bad experiences with Charter and good with DirecTV. Will they ever learn????

Apps1 and Spiked -
Sorry about the problems you guys are having. I just this morning sent all your postings to our head tech guy here at Charter Media, who in turn is passing it up the line. Trust me I understand your problems.

The rank and file here have been told we need to work on the customer service of our company, and there are a lot of people here that want this perception of Charter to change, and change NOW! I'm doing what I can to do this. I'm not doing it to change your minds (I think you people who have dropped Charter, have put some thought into the decision), but I want to use your experience to to work on keeping others from doing this. Back in 1997, I switch to Direct TV (I worked for a local TV station then) because of a bad customer service rep. with Charter. Now that I've been here for 2 years, I've become the "company man" knowing that this company "feeds the baby" and for Charter Media to work, Charter Communications has to work.

Anyway, I know you guys have heard all this stuff before, and it is no comfort, but I do thank you for taking the time to let me know, so I can maybe do something about it.

Charter Man, Home theater "geek",

So what is the deal with ABC and their sound. We have the usual synch problem, then it is too loud for the last few days and then last night the sound was completely messed up! I thought they were suppose to be fixing the problem NOT MAKING IT WORSE!!! Geeze, I'll be happy when they fix it once and for all.

On a similar note, is it really worth calling the station about when these things happen? I would assume that it really doesn't make any difference. Either you won't be able to speak to the right person, or that person already knows there is a problem and is either trying to fix it, or just doesn't care. What are some other people's thoughts on the question?

Sic0048- Do you mean WSPA and CBS? I wasn't aware of any sound problem on WLOS(ABC). If it is CBS, email RPeeler@wspa.com.

Sorry, you are right, it is CBS with all the sound issues.

ABC and Fox need to get in the HD game period.

As someone looking to finally get into HDTV programming, this whole thread is very discouraging. What can you actually get out here in Seneca? Is it worth all of the aggravation of putting up a OTA antenna etc.. for what seems to be very limited programming. I use Directv for SD viewing and have considered getting their HD lineup but again limited choices is a major drawback.
Thanks.

Charter kept telling me for years that they were going to put service on my road in Enoree, well.........i'm still waiting, but in the meantime I got D* and their BUILT IN OTA receiver and pick up ALL the networks via the Western Carolina market and the Columbia market since they are ALL doing HD in Columbia and Charlotte. And this should be of real interest to Charter, My local phone co-op is getting ready to offer digital TV (although not HD at first)over their fiber optic phone lines, and the STB will include a built in DSL modem, so if Charter came down my road today after all the BS I heard from them all of those years I would just tell them to kiss off as I hope others in this area would do.

jparkerob-
Well, the antenna isn't generally much of a hassle. True, Sinclair has messed us up with ABC HD, but later this year that should be taken care of. However, once you watch HD, particularly on a large screen, you won't want to go back to regular TV. We watch programs on Discovery HD Theater and HDNet that we would absolutely not have thought of watching before, simply because they are HD - and they are excellent. And we are about a month away from the Olympics in HD.
If you wait for X months or years, there will be more HD - but look at what you will have missed in the meantime.

I'm currently renting an apartment in Taylors, SC, and I'll be moving to a new subdivision in Taylors in about 5 weeks. I'm finally able to say goodbye to Charter, and I'll be getting DirecTV and their HD package. I'll have a very nice SONY 60 inch LCD Wega to view it on so I can't wait. I'm also getting the new HDTivo, and I'd be interested in hearing from anyone else who has this or another Directv setup on how well they pick up local digital signals.

I've also heard that we get the national high def feeds from CBS on channels 80 & 81. Is this true? Anyone been successful in getting a waiver for any of the other networks to get their national broadcasts which are done in HD?

If there is anyone specifically in the Taylors/Greer area I'd really be interested to hear your experiences with local digital signals whether you're with DirecTV or not.

I've read a lot of the posts on this thread, and I'd really like to echo the comments on Charter. I've been a loyal customer for 7 years, and it was obvious that their customer service took people for granted and felt they were the only game in town. No matter what Charter does to improve their customer service they will be reaping all the bad for at least the next 2 to 3 years.

Jerry Birdwell-
There is thread under HDTV Programming listing HD service by market. Greenville, etc shows blank (presumably due to lack of info). As the unofficial representative of our unofficial thread, it might be most appropriate for you to respond. Thanks for all you do.

I'm trying to update a master list of OTA HD stations. Greenville / Asheville has not yet been updated. Can somebody that knows what networks are broadcasting in HD or HD/DD5.1 go to the following link and post the info?

National List of Stations Broadcasting HD / DD5.1 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=422073)

Just need the Network, Re-mapped Channel#, and if they're DD 5.1. For any of the networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, UPN & WB) that are currently broadcasting in HD.

I get WSPA (7) in HD, but I'm not sure if it is DD 5.1 capable or not.

Thanks....

walterc, I have had a Directv CBS waiver for years as I cannot receive channel 7 at all. Recently I resubscribed to Directv and got ch 80 only. But later they added ch 81, so I have both now. Also they started NBC E and W std def which I had never had before. I got a card saying waiver denied by ABC and FOX and granted by CBS and NBC. Of course CBS is the only HD network on Directv or Dish. I dont think you can get a waiver for CBS if you get WSPA ok. I have a Directivo and a Samsung HD, the only off air HD I can get is PBS. I have Charter also and recently got an HD box so I could get WYFF and the Braves home games (which are great in HD). Also I was impressed by the Video on Demand, they have dozens of free movies.

For anyone in the Greenville area using Charter HD, how would you rate the quality? I'm kind of debating between Voom and Charter HD, and your comments may help sway me one way or the other. Thanks!

For anyone thinking about D* or getting an HD STB, getting an antenna makes lots of sense in order to expand your choices. In the upstate areas you will significantly increase the amount of HD programming by picking up both NBC and CBS HD offerings for FREE, and also the numerous PBS and public access channels that are surprisingly more high tech than our pathetic local ABC and FOX providers. Sure you can pick up the ABC and FOX feeds on their DT but they are not showing HD yet. The reasons are numerous and discussed earlier in this thread. It took me a few months to settle on the right antenna and get it installed right, but I'm glad I did it. Stuff like the Masters, Final Four, Olympics, for me somewhat justifies the $$$ spent on the TV. If you are a D* customer, I'm guessing the famous $99 dollar still exists, but bottom line, the OTA antenna is a no brainer if you have a D* HD STB. Shame on Charter for giving out bad STB's.

Depending on where you live in the upstate area it would be a good investment to get a good long range antenna and a rotor and a pre-amp. If you are situated right then your choices would also include the Charlotte market, which is all HD as far as I can tell. One can also pick up some Columbia stations as well, especially WOLO-DT(ABC) HD as it is on VHF 8 and has much greater range than the UHF signals.

>For anyone in the Greenville area using Charter HD, how would you rate the quality?

When it works, it is awesome.

I lost all HD channels for a day and a half once. HBO, SHO and ESPN feeds dropped for a day 2 or 3 times.

Very limited number of channels. 7?
Some of the movies are broadcast over and over.

Technical support and customer service is lacking.

I think the problems will work out over time, this being a new technology for charter in this area.

Overall, less than spectacular. But when you get to watch someone you really want to watch and it works, it is awesome.

Originally posted by CPanther95
I get WSPA (7) in HD, but I'm not sure if it is DD 5.1 capable or not.

Thanks....

Well I can say that it is 5.1 capable. They had 5.1 Dolby Digital sound when they aired the CMA concert a few days ago. It was the first show that I've seen on WSPA that had DD 5.1 (but I just hooked the TV up to my receiver via an optical hookup a few days ago - so I haven't been paying attention to it long).

On a related note, all the digital channels show up as Dolby Digital on my TV while the standard channels all show up as stereo. But most of the digital shows are being broadcast in stereo because I can only use DPLII and not Dolby Digital. It's a Zenith C32V37 TV and was wondering what other people see on their TVs. Do they show a signal as DD even though it is only broadcast in stereo?? Just a question I've had since connecting the TV to my HT a few days ago.

It is a sad day when, on the national list of HDTV coverage, Greenville, NC shows better than Greenville, SC. Where is our pride?

It would seem to me that a good way to motivate Fox, ABC, and NBC to get going with HD is to make us eligible for a waiver to pick up the National Broadcasts in HD through DirecTV (provided you're a DTV Subscriber).

That way we could watch HD programming, but the local affiliates would miss out on our viewing until they came online.

Got my first HDTV over the weekend, checked out DVDs, PlayStation2, but was ready for the real stuff.

So I called Charter first thing this morning. The woman on the phone was very nice, but knew virtually nothing about CableCARD. After some prodding, she confirmed I could use it to replace my box. All I had to do was pick it up at the Charter offices, take it home, plug it in, and call in to complete the installation.

If it were only so easy.

I went to Charter at lunch to pick up my CableCARD. The dude at the desk knew even less that the woman on the phone. He came back out with a memo and told me I couldn't just pick up a card...I had to schedule an installation. Which, of course, is a breeze when you work 8:30-6:00 M-F.

After a bit more wrangling, and a few trips to the back, he came back out and told me my installation was scheduled, but I wouldn't be able to get HD without a box. So I'm thinking, "Then what's the point of a CableCARD?" I tell him my TV has a built-in HDTV capabilities; all I need is the card. "No, you still need the box," he says. "I'll take my chances," I say.

Installation is scheduled for Friday sometime from 8am-12pm. But here's my big worry: the woman on the phone said I was the first person to ask about it. The guy at the Charter offices says I'm the first person to ask about it. So what am I to expect when the installation guy comes on Friday?

Anyone else had Charter do a CableCARD install?

Sounds like the Charter we all know.

Sorry, I've been away for a couple of days. I will pass your situations on to our people inside Charter. I work for the Media side, but they have been good at looking at these post as I pass them on.

When you have problems, call customer service, if you still have problems, feel free to post, or send me PM. I've been bad about checking it, but I promise I will do better.

Thanks, bTW, I like my Charter HD. It does look good. I hope there is a channel expansion coming soon!

Thanks,

>So what am I to expect when the installation guy comes on Friday?

Expect to be more knowledgeable about what needs to be done than the installers. Let them do their thing, but if they don't know exactly what the deal is, offer to set it up yourself.

When my HD service was installed (yes you must have an installation appt - you can't pick up the box yourself), two guys showed up. This was their first HD install. If I recall, one of them was not familiar with component video.

Short story is I ended up hooking it all up myself, paid 20 bucks for a component and audio cable set I didn't need, and the tech guys left without the service even working yet. The servers that control the STBs were down so I had to wait a few hours for my box to be provisioned.

Hehehehe, good thing they didn't trust me with a box to install all by my lonesome eh?

Well, the Charter guy came. No CableCARD. They said it was too new, and they didn't have any yet. Um, weren't they required to carry starting July 1st?

Anyway, he gave me a box. Pretty annoying. I was hoping to cut out a ton of cables and a remote. So what am I supposed to do now? Keep calling until they get CableCARDS in?

And what's up with TNT-HD. It's on the listing, but I'm not getting it.

Either way, everything looks and sounds fantastic!

>TNT-HD.

You referring to the Braves channel? It only broadcasts home Braves games.

To all interested in OTA HD:
The following new information regarding the proposed new generation of chips for off-air reception was received from Wayne Estabrook of UNCTV: (Very encouraging):
<quote>
This message below from Mark Schubin who lives in NY City and up til now
has not had much success receiving DTV in his apartment with an indoor
antenna. DTT = Digital Terrestrial Television

I probably told you that I was very impressed with the fifth generation
receiver I saw demonstrated in April at my PBS engineering meeting.

Mark Schubin writes;
20040722 Thundering Thursday Thanks (Mark's Monday Memo)

SPECIAL! DTT in the U.S. Works!

Count me among the believers in the 5th-generation LG/Zenith ATSC receiver!

We just did a test, this morning, in my apartment, and I thought the news
was too important not to release immediately. Present were two senior
research engineers from LG Electronics in Korea, Bob Miller and an
associate from Viacel, and Richard Bogner and an associate. Miller had
arranged for the test in my apartment. The receiver was the LG LST-3100A.

With a simple loop antenna, with NO care in the positioning, we were able
to pull in seven DTT stations reliably. When I say "reliably," I mean not
only that the pictures and sound were okay but that people could move
around the room and I could move the antenna around without causing any
breakup. It WAS possible for me to find an orientation where I could make
it fail, but I really had to try, even on WNYW-DT, which could previously
be received only with the antenna on the floor. That's a big jump from
previously trying to find an orientation (and position) where I could make
it work. For the first time, I could receive signals (six channels) from
an antenna atop my TV, where I normally get analog channels. I received
three channels reliably from New Jersey. We got the same results with the
classic Radio Shack dual bow-tie with reflector, but other (fancier)
antennas did not work as well.

The only channel I have previously received that I could not get this
morning was (which we confirmed with a spectrum analyzer) off the air. Two
of the other channels I could not receive are operating at very low power,
and one has its transmissions beamed away from me.

I now believe that any shmo with reception conditions similar to mine can
simply take the receiver out of the box, connect a cheap loop antenna,
stick it wherever it looks good, and start to receive ATSC signals from
all full-power, full-pattern stations.

There has been a breakthrough! YAY! Congratulations to LG/Zenith! Let the
transition move forward!

For the record, the channels I received were: WCBS-DT, WNBC-DT, WNYW-DT
(which carries WWOR as a subchannel), WABC-DT, WPXN-DT, WNJN-DT, and
WFME-DT.

TTFN,
Mark
<end quote>

To all: Re Sinclair/WLOS

Following a review of the new Zenith/LG receiver, Sinclair had this to say:

"We are pleased to see the progress made by Zenith that will allow
consumers to easily receive free digital television broadcasts in their
homes. Broadcasters and consumers can now look forward to a robust DTV
service delivered over-the-air without having to subscribe to cable or
satellite," said Nat Ostroff, Vice President, New Technology, Sinclair
Broadcast Group.

"Our concerns that poor indoor reception would hinder the DTV
transition have now been addressed," he said. "And this is especially timely because of the FCC-mandated rollout of millions of large-screen HDTV
receivers with integrated over-the-air tuners beginning this summer.

"With indoor reception now more viable, broadcasters need to examine their current transmitting power levels to assure that they deliver an adequate signal inside the home, and consumer electronics manufacturers need to ensure that breakthrough technologies such as this are available in the market," Ostroff said.

Lets hope WLOS personnel are examining their power level.

It seems as though every Monday night that Still Standing on 7-1 begins as HD widescreen in DD 5.1, and then after the ad at 8:15, shifts to 4:3 and PLII. It happened again tonight. Is somebody literally asleep at the switch? This is not the way to sell HiDef!!!!

I think "Still Standing" got messed up because of the weather warnings. That is no excuse though.

What is going on with WSPA? No HD with the golf tournament over the weekend even though it was supposed to be in HD according to the guide. Anybody know? I checked a few of their prime time shows also and no HD. What is going on?

Originally posted by calvinb
What is going on with WSPA? No HD with the golf tournament over the weekend even though it was supposed to be in HD according to the guide. Anybody know? I checked a few of their prime time shows also and no HD. What is going on?

There was a post in the HD Programming forum regarding this. Apparently CBS won't be doing any golf in HD for a while due to circumstances beyond their control. I can't find the link right now, but if you do a search, you may find it. At least it is not a local problem.

Wright

Charter CableCARD saga continues...

Two Fridays ago, a Charter guy was supposed to come out and install my CableCARD. Instead, he came out and said it was too new; they didn't have any yet. So he left an HD box.

I sent an email to Charter reminding them about the FCC's July 1st deadline. They quickly responded and set up a CableCARD installation for last Friday.

So an installation guy AND a supervisor came out Friday to install the card. They got it in the TV, pulled the numbers up on the screen, and called in the to tech people to feed them the numbers.

Everything was going well. TOO well...

It was complete chaos back at the office. The poor installation guys at my house just had to sit there while everyone at the office ran around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Finally, they tell the supervisor that they couldn't put the numbers in, they needed to do something else, it would have to wait until Monday, and the card would be working on Tuesday...

Today.

And it's not working.

So I called the supervisor guy who came out to my house, and left a message telling him it still wasn't working. He responded pretty quickly and said everything will be set, working, and ready to go by Friday.

They say the third time's the charm, but let's just say I don't have my hopes up...

While I agree that it is no excuse, you might literally be the first local Charter CarbleCard customer. Charter should have had everything ready to go with the deadline (now past), but there are always problems when trying to introduce new technology. I'm not trying to stick up for Charter in any way, and I hope they are able to solve your issues soon!

The supervisor said I am the first one, so that explains a lot.

I'm not really mad at Charter, just frustrated. It sucks to be the guinea pig, but someone's gotta do it.

I'm curious to know if anyone has determined if the olympics will be broadcast in HD on channel 4-1. I called WYFF and they were not much help in answering my question. Since we are not in an O&O area we have to rely on the local affiliate to provide the HD feed. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks.

Anyone have any luck with getting a waiver from any of our locals?

I got a waiver from WLOS a few years ago and get the distant ABC(E&W) feed on D*, and will get the ABC HD when the get around to it.

Doctor, the add I saw last night said it would be on 4-1 and charter (channel ?) which means if you have direcTV you'll also be able to get it on channel 84 since charter is broadcasting it.

Mike

Billyray- Why would Charter carrying WYFF-DT have anything to do with getting the national feed on DirecTV?

Has anyone gotten an answer from WSPA-DT to explain why they turn on the DD5.0 flag for CBS network DD2.0 primetime programming?

apps, Charter is carrying it on a separate channel, and because they are a mulitchannel provider, that qualifies us under the directv agreement with nbc to get the feed as i understand it. While this really doesn't affect me since I get WYFF-DT ota, I know their are others in the area have problems picking them up that this may help to know.

Billyray- Thanks for the info. I get WYFF OTA as well but I will watch the National feed if it is available via DirecTV.

I noticed today that WOLO-DT in Columbia is now multi-casting. 25-1 ABC-HD,25-2 ABC News Now (which is a new ABC News Channel) and 25-3 Weather radar. So far the PQ looks good since ABC does 720p.

Friday has come and gone, and my CableCARD still doesn't work.

At this point, I'm past "oh, this is new, blah, blah." If it's new, determine what you need to do to implement it, pick a date it will be ready, and stick with it. Yesterday was the FOURTH "deadline day" they've given me that has come and gone without it working.

You will get far more HD OTA than with Charter at this point, no one can prevent you from putting up an outside antenna on your own property and you only pay for the initial cost.

wspa 7-1 audio problems...

Has anyone gotten an update about wspa audio problems?

Re WSPA-DT audio...no, but I will send a note to Ron Peeler after last night's experience. However, the SD audio was not perfect.
Unfortunately, the HD feed out of New York was preempted by Baseball and there was no alternative.

Regarding the WSPA-HD audio, the following has been sent to Ron Peeler:

"Ron, last night's DT audio was really bad and not usable. It has been a long time since we were told to expect better audio from WSPA-HD. Can we have an update as to what to expect?

JWB"

I seem to have lost WYFF (4-1), are any of you guys picking up this channel. All other local digital channels are ok with good strength.

WYFF-DT
No problem here with WYFF--neither last night nor this morning.

This may be old news, but WYFF-DT will pass along the DD5.1 for Olympic HD coverage.

That is good to know! If they can do it for Olympic coverage, why can't they do it all the time?

It sucks that WSPA-DT is the only channel that I get that consistently sends out 5.1 signals, but it is usually a waste with their sound issues. To be honest, I'd rather they send out a decent 2.0 signal than a crappy, out of sync 5.1 signal.

On a different note - I use to be able to pull in NC ETV quite effectively (channels 33-1, 33-2, 33-3, 33-4, and 33-5). But lost the signal strength about a month ago. Does anyone know if they lowered their power? It's not a big loss since they usually duplicated what was on SC ETV or if not, they shows were not what I wanted to view. But they did send out 5.1 signals on their HD channel (33-2) which was nice for concerts, etc. SC ETV only sends out a 2.0 signal with their HD station (9-3).

They can do it all the time but NBC rarely provides DD5.1.

Also, I dont know why WSPA flags CBS 2.0 audio as 5.1.

I note from elsewhere on AVS that Greenville is one of the few markets where the local Fox affiliate does not have their splicer installed and does not provide HD. Anyone know what a splicer is why they need it? Any clue when they might be up and running in HD? Thanks for any info.

Western Carolinas Digital reception update:
I receive all DT signals originated in the Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson FCC-designated Designated Market Area with good reliability although they are originated at various strengths from a wide arc. The only exception is for a week or so during major seasonal changes (winter to spring, fall to winter.) My one major problem is with SCETV's channel 9. It often is briefly interrupted with signal dropouts or perhaps co-channel interference. It is very sensitive to weather interruptions.
Soon broadcasters must make a decision as to whether to remain on the UHF band, or switch to VHF. My experience both here in Asheville and in Washington DC has not been good with VHF digital signals. For example, although WLOS-DT operates at very low power and I am receiving the signal from well below a ridge and numerous trees, the signal is most stable at around 60 percent on the Samsung receiver.
I have spoken to many TV engineers and found that many of them are anxious to remain on the UHF band, but managers tend to think VHF is better from a viewers' point of view. The FCC does not seem to have taken a position on this.
After years in the television broadcast business operating both UHF and VHF stations, I am convinced UHF-DT is superior.
I would like to hear from any of you who have an opinion on this issue.
Please reply here or email me at jbirdwe@bellsouth.net

Originally posted by mgtr
I note from elsewhere on AVS that Greenville is one of the few markets where the local Fox affiliate does not have their splicer installed and does not provide HD. Anyone know what a splicer is why they need it? Any clue when they might be up and running in HD? Thanks for any info.

The splicer is a box that interfaces the network HD signal to the stations digital signal. It is inserted logically close to the transmitter and the network signal out of the receiver is "spliced" into the stations own data stream, unlike the other networks that require stations to recompress the HD signal, manipulate and then re-encode it to be sent out causing some of the PQ issues and audio sync problems.

FOX is providing the splicer free of charge to the stations that want it. All the station has to do is have a 720p stream going to their transmitter. The resolution of the picture on the 720p stream can be 480 upconverted to 720 or native 720 HD, the splicer doesn't care.

A recent email from the engineer at WHNS says they expect to begin passing the Fox HD signal sometime in October.

Its my experience that VHF has better range than UHF, i get a great steady signal from WOLO-DT out of Columbia and the UHF stations there only are able to be received at night here in Enoree. WOLO-DT is on 8-1, if WLOS was doing DTV on 13-1 im sure the signal would have much better range.

We heard from WLOS in Feb. , HD in 90 days....then after 90 days had gone by......HD by August......wellllllllllll......guess what? August is just about OVER ........ WLOS !!!!!!

Just recently moved into our mountain vacation home in Cashiers and was wondering if anyone has reception experience with picking up HDTV signals in this part of the mountains? Thanks for any advice you can provide as I contermplate what to purchase to pick up local high def channels to supplement DirecTV.

Originally posted by foxeng
The splicer is a box that interfaces the network HD signal to the stations digital signal. It is inserted logically close to the transmitter and the network signal out of the receiver is "spliced" into the stations own data stream, unlike the other networks that require stations to recompress the HD signal, manipulate and then re-encode it to be sent out causing some of the PQ issues and audio sync problems.

FOX is providing the splicer free of charge to the stations that want it. All the station has to do is have a 720p stream going to their transmitter. The resolution of the picture on the 720p stream can be 480 upconverted to 720 or native 720 HD, the splicer doesn't care.

So Fox is sending a SMPTE 310 (or ASI) transport stream to the affiliate and the affilite must "splice" the MPEG stream? Are they using the Leitch/AgileVision box?

Doug

Originally posted by douglasd5
So Fox is sending a SMPTE 310 (or ASI) transport stream to the affiliate and the affilite must "splice" the MPEG stream? Are they using the Leitch/AgileVision box?

Doug

It is an MEPG2 ATSC compatible stream that is spliced in at ASI. The splicer is a specifically modified Terayon BP-5100.

Originally posted by foxeng
It is an MEPG2 ATSC compatible stream that is spliced in at ASI. The splicer is a specifically modified Terayon BP-5100.

say what? :D

Charter finally came through and worked out the kinks with my CableCARD. It's now in and working perfectly.

I've been very pleased with it so far. It's not sluggish like some people have reported. At least not any more sluggish than my STB.

So now that's over with...I'm starting to focus on content. Any word on Charter adding more channels? TNT-HD, Discovery-HD, more local channels?

I have not heard anything yet. I was hoping for a Sept. date, but no word. As soon as I hear, I'll let you know.
Go 'cocks!


John B.

Note to WSPA-DT Viewers:

WSPA's Ron Peeler has not responded to the recent email request for new information on the lack of progress in solving the WSPA-DT audio problems.

Jerry- You may want to send the e-mail to CWofford@wspa.com .

I wanted you to know I talked with a Charter Installer today and he was telling me he has been training for installing Moxi PVR's.

He also was showing me some training material and other stuff. Now don't pick up the phone and call Charter trying to get the Moxi, there is a lot training to be done and a lot of testing. He did tell me that they are training a "Moxi Team" that will do the installs. Biggest part of the training he said was how to teach people how to use the Moxi. They are afraid it maybe over alot of subscribers heads.

He also told me he was a TiVO user, and the Moxi box really impressed him. So it sounds as if the 4th quarter roll-out is still on in this market. As soon as I hear more about it, I will be sure to fill you in.

Hello all. My name is Eric and I just subscribed to the AVS forums. I like in in the crossroads of Greer, Taylors, and Travelers Rest...basically, 6 miles north of Greer. I'm an avid HDTV viewer and was pleased to find that my fellow viewers have been seeing the same issues I have (WSPA's audio problem for starters). Currently, I'm having issues with WYFF-DT's signal. It was great for a while, but its starting to break up frequently. The weird thing is I'll show a pegged out signal strength and then it will drop to about 20%. I own a Hughes HTL-HD box (much better than the Samsung I had...that was a nightmare!) with both OTA and DirecTV. My antenna is a Antennasdirect DB4 mounted approx 20 feet above the ground. Would this be a case of mulipath or what? I'm considering getting a directional antenna, most likely the 43XG from AD, and putting it on a rotor. It seems WLOS will never be receiveable for me, especially since I get a crappy analog signal from them, so WSOC from Charlotte is my best bet. I can actually get them very strongly on some nights, but weak on others. Having amateur radio experience, I understand this is a propogation issue. Anyone else in my vicinity had any luck? I'm glad I've found some "locals" that I can talk to.

Fortunately, for me, poor analog is not a predictor of poor digital reception. However, remember that WLOS is operating on a very weak signal, perhaps 10% of authorized power. In my case, I cannot receive a watchable analog because of severe multipath. It is, however, a very stable digital signal. Today, for example with WUNF-DT at full power, it was coming in at 88%, while WLOS was in the 90s. I have a ridge line about 1000 feet out from my antenna and it rises some 150 feet above line of site. It is very dense with trees. I never expected to receive a decent signal, and it continues to mystify me.
I am line of sight from WYFF, and seldom have a problem with its signal. WSPA is slightly over a ridge some 20 miles south of me, but is a very stable 90-98%. No pixelization. Yes...the audio is the pits. But recently it seems tht WYFF is trying to match the WSPA poor performance.
I have tried many different types of antennas, starting with my very large RS array on a rotor in the attic. It is ok, but requires a lot of back-and-forth through the 120 degrees separating the stations. I found one place on my rear deck that I could easily mount a neat installation using a CM 4-bay antenna. It points toward WLOS and WUNF, with a slight modification for the transmitters in the south and southeast. That modification is simply a 9" No. 14 copper wire attached to one side of the feed point. This broadens the reception angle sufficiently for me to receive all Western Carolinas DT transmitters. (Channel 9 is inserted into a combiner from a small home-made Yagi. You can't beat the CM 4 or 8 bay for UHF!
Good Luck.

To all:
Well, we finally got our "local" HDTV story in the Asheville Citizen Times. Nothing about the OTA local signals, no decent description of the difference in Digital SD and HDTV, and not in the "entertainment" section of the paper. We can't even get the Editor to include a HD slug in the program listings.
Fortunately, we have Ben Szbodody on our side at the Greenville paper.

Anyone else experience an echo on wspa last night during the amazing race. I had to change to the analog feed.

Mike

Making this the "Official" HDTV thread for the Greenville, SC DMA. If this isn't accurate, PM me and it can be changed.

So I emailed Charter and they told me they are still in negotiations with WSPA to carry their HD feed. Big surprise. They also said a DVR will be out on the 20th of this month. I couldn't get an answer if it was going to be an HDDVR or not. Anyone have any info on this? Thanks.

Wright

I have just discovered the WNC site that has covered the stations in Greenville, Spartanburg-Asheville-Anderson stations no longer comes up under the old name. I am disappointed that it has been changed, and in reality disenfranchises those of us who have spent a lot of time working to improve DT/HDTV in this area. Please...start your own new forum...but do not change the established site used by many.

Originally posted by billyrayvalentin
Anyone else experience an echo on wspa last night during the amazing race. I had to change to the analog feed.

Mike
Mike, this is a continuing problem with WSPA-DT/HDTV. The station has promised a fix, but that was months ago and no recent response to continued requests for better audio.

Is the change to our existing thread a name change only, or is it also substantive?

So far as I can tell, it is only a name change, but narrows the definition of what this forum is serving. It seems to continue to contain the past historical information.

A reminder of what this unique television market really is:
WSPA, WYFF, WLOS, WHNS, and others, serve the nation's 35 largest television market. Each station is licensed to serve the entire area. Otherwise, as individual cities, each would be well into the second 100 level. There are many negatives for not setting up this DMA accordingly, not the least of which is the fairly early date that our stations were on the satellites for local into local service.

Re DirecTV
This should be of interest to HDTV fans of this area. DirecTV has announced it will acquire three new satellites with the capability for handling 100s of local stations' digital/HDTV broadcasts. This is after several years of denial it will ever have the capacity for offering local DT signals. The local- to-local satellite business has proven to be a money maker in a big way...and now there is a rush to expand it.
This also will put more pressure on the cable companies to improve both service and sensativity to customer concerns.

Gefen has developed a Cat 5 HDTV distribution system for home/office use. For more information:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/products/hd_extension.jsp

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
Re DirecTV
This is after several years of denial it will ever have the capacity for offering local DT signals.

I think it should be noted that those statements were made by the former owners and that view was not taken with the current owners as this announcement was made after just 10 months of ownership.

Originally posted by mgtr
Is the change to our existing thread a name change only, or is it also substantive?
Just a name change for Forum consistency - listing the Primary city of the DMA. We are working on a list of Official threads for each DMA that will be stickied. #35 DMA is titled Greenville, SC - but continues to consist of the entire Greenville-Spartanburg, SC-Asheville, NC-Anderson, SC DMA. The Official list will use the entire DMA description with a link to this thread as the Official thread for that DMA.

The only "breaking" down will be done if you guys decide to break off discussion of cable from OTA. In that case there will always be one OTA thread for the DMA, but may be multiple threads to discuss different cable companies.

Ex: As it stands now, Boston, MA / Manchester, NH DMA has 3 threads titled as follows:

Boston, MA - OTA
Boston, MA - Comcast
New Hampshire - Adelphia

I understand the desire for consistency (and I will refrain from quoting Emerson) but there may be a problem here. People in, say, Amarillo, TX may call our DMA Greenville, and not care one way or another what is covered.
However, many people who live in the area do not know a DMA from a hole in the ground, are not thrilled with being "just an extension of Greenville." What you have here are a number of cities with roughly the same population, Greenville just happens to be the biggest, hence the name.
Plus, "Western Carolinas" is far more descriptive of the area covered than "Greenville." So, how about Greenville/Western Carolinas as a title?

Good thinking. Another consideration is the fact that there are many Greenvilles nearby leading to more confusion. Lets see if we have other contributions.

Here is the link to the news about direct tv for HDTV local channels!

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/aboutus/headline.dsp?id=09_08_2004A

People who can't distinguish Greenville, SC from Greenville, NC are probably not the locals who will be posting in the thread anyway.

I'm working on a list of Official Threads Test Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4317651#post4317651) that will be organized by DMA (using the full DMA description), but there are too many variables to not have a consistent format. I've had requests to add Chapel Hill to the DMA description that already includes Raleigh, Durham and Fayetteville. And don't get me started on Paducah.

Give it some time - if this doesn't work I'll do something else. But I think it will make more sense in practice than it may appear at this point.

Today 10:11 AM

CPanther95
We have many new-comers to this area and they often confuse their service area because of overlap from Greenville, TN and the other Greenvilles, including GA. We will wait and see. And remember, Anderson was added to this DMA only a couple of years back. Although I started this thread, I did not choose to be moderator in order to help maximize participation throughout the local station's service areas...and it seemed to work very well.
jb

jb

I was just talking with a guy at WLOS and he was telling me that they are working on installing their HD gear. One of the components isn't working correctly yet, so there is a delay in getting HD to the viewers. No official timetable has been set, but it looks as in HD from ABC for the Western Caronlinas will be here very soon! I've got my fingers crossed. By the way, to those who might have read my prior post, I have tweaked my antenna system and am now able to pull in WLOS quite stably.

dashaund

Have you any information to share regarding the improvement in your ota signals?

Well, for starters I purchased a rotor. That helped tremendously in fine tuning the hot spots. Secondly, I had an old preamp I was using that I thought was helping. Turns out when I bypassed it, my signal shot out the roof. Before, I had tried bypassing it and it made no difference. I guess when you start nailing those signals, it does make a difference. Basically, it wasn't made for the HD signal band, so it was filtering out what it was supposed to amplify. Makes sense, but I didn't realize it was doing that. WSOC only comes in after about 11pm for some reason...too late for MNF. I think I'm going to try a unidirectional yagi antenna next and attempt to lock WSOC in. I'm using a DB4, which is a multidirectional model from Antenna's Direct. It has a ton of gain, but it isn't focused in one direction. Any ideas or tips? At this point I'll try anything.

I don't recall the frequency for WSOC, but a high gain Yagi can't be beat for pulling in one station. But, be sure to look at the specs for the antenna...many do not have equal gain for all frequencies and some are even maximized for the lower portion of the UHF band. (I am assuming WSOC is UHF.) I am very much against the older UHF/VHF amplifiers and most UHF only amps. Most of the time they are overloaded by the strongest signal from nearby, and do more damage than good. However, I am--after two years resisting--trying out a Channel Master Model 7777 in an effort to improve the Channel 9 (Greenville) signal and to more consistently pickup UHF signals from Charlotte, 80+ miles away. The direct line-of-sight from WYFF 20 miles away does not overload it. I favor CM because I have never had a TV Chief Engineer fail to recognize it as a superior line of equipment

By the way, in searching over five acres on a south facing mountainside, I have found only one location and at one height that offers the signals for the weaker stations, and will pull in ALL local DT signals from one orientation. Fortunately, this ideal location is the corner of one of our decks and the CM 4-bay makes a very neat installation using PVC for a mount (grounded by #10 wire through the pipe.)

Thanks for the info...I am sure others will benefit from your experience.

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
I don't recall the frequency for WSOC, but a high gain Yagi can't be beat for pulling in one station. But, be sure to look at the specs for the antenna...many do not have equal gain for all frequencies and some are even maximized for the lower portion of the UHF band. (I am assuming WSOC is UHF.)

WSOC-DT is channel 34.

I chatted with a Antenna's Direct representative today. It looks that by Charlotte being so far away, I would never be able to reliably pull in their signal...80 miles is a stretch without a tower and the such. I'm sticking with my DB4...I'm extremely happy with the performance I'm getting now. I'll wait out WLOS's transition, along with WHNS's.

I am receiving a 16 X 9 test screen on WLOS 13-2. MNF in HD?

It is now back ro regular 4 X 3 Ch40 programming. Maybe they will have the HD feed tonight for the game.

Wlos simulcast looking good on 13-3.

My SS seems about the same. Anyone think they boosted the power?

Actually, my WLOS/DT signal has dropped a couple of points today. I don't believe there is a change in power. Be interesting to see if ABC HD is available.

Regarding the mapping, 13-2 is still WB; the only difference between 13-1 and 3 are the gray panels on 1 and black on 3.

I'm seeing the same results as well. I got a notification of a reply in inbox, checked here. I switched to 13-3 and saw the simulcast. There's one more difference on channel 13-3...its in 720p! I knew they were working on it, and maybe the progress paid off. Will MNF be in HD tonight? I'll know at 9pm! Carolina Panthers + MNF + HD = Priceless (well, sort of). Go Cats!

My 13-1 is a 4 X3 of WLOS while 13-3 is a 16 X 9 of WLOS. Jerry are you getting something different?

dashaund- Do you notice any difference in signal strength? I will be very suprised if they dont pass MNF HD.

SWEET!!!!

I got home and was thumbing through the OTA Channels and found 13-3 the ABC feed in HD. I thought I could be the first to share since I viewed this thread earlier today and there was no mention of it yet. Oh well. I'm just glad to see another channel in HD. Hopefully MNF will be in HD. My wife is more excited about that than anyone! I love my wife.

Anyway, ABC HD is real and looks good, lets just hope it stays.

PS - maybe CBS should take notes - I haven't noticed any audio issues yet.

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
Regarding the mapping, 13-2 is still WB; the only difference between 13-1 and 3 are the gray panels on 1 and black on 3.

Actually, my 13-1 is 4:3 full screen while 13-3 is being broadcast in 16:9 so there is a letter box on the sides. I have a 4:3 aspect TV, so my 13-1 is full screen, while the 13-3 has the normal side grey boxes since it is a 4:3 format being broadcast in 16:9 and then I have the normal black bars at the top since it is a 16:9 broadcast being received by my 4:3 TV. I can zoom the HD signal and get full screen when a 4:3 show is broadcast.

Off topic here, but is anyone aware of an AB switch for optical out. I have two outs and only 1 in.

I notice a very slight increase in signal strength. I had a Normal signal on my Hughes HTL-HD, and now it might be a tick above normal. They could've increased it a little. It wasn't skipping or pixelizing before, and it isn't now. It looks great, so I'm praying for MNF in HD! Makes it all worth while.

Apps1, yes, radio shack has them, 15-1586, for $10. Almost every location has them, just call. 4-way switch. I'm about to get 5.1, and the receiver I'm looking at only has one input, and I have two sources.

Thanks dashaund, I will pick one up tomorrow. The SS is great on my DTC 100 but I always get drops on WLOS with my E-86. Strange.

They must be playing around. Now 13-1 is Ch40 and 13-2 and 13-3 are both WLOS 16 X 9.

Not that I'm satisfied with ABC being in HD, but I wonder if WB will be as well. Beggers can't be choosers, but some programs on WB are in HD as well. The more programming the better!

My guess would be that will also pass along WB HD. If they are both HD at the same time we will probably have picture quality issues.

I noticed a SS increase. I was getting 80-82 now im getting 89-94.

Well the benefactor wasn't broadcast in 16:9 and I had read that it was suppose to be shot in HD (and therefore 16:9 I would assume). Mark has his own HD network, so you can see his reasoning in shooting it in HD. It was touted as the first reality TV show to be shot in full HD. We will have to see if ABC is really broadcasting in full HD, or if it is just upscaling their SD feed.

A source close to WLOS said at the last minute that the Benefactor was pulled from being aired in HD. ABC bascially gave him the shaft. Why? Who knows.

Anyone know if MNF is in full HD? I'm still getting a letterboxed 4:3 image instead of a nice 16:9 screen. That suggests that they are simply inscaling the normal SD broadcast, but to be honest I haven't paid enough attention to know if MNF is broadcast in 16:9.

Its NOT HD. WOLO-DT Columbia IS HD, a full 16:9 720p picture.I guess that they are not yet geared up to pass the ABC HD thru at WLOS.

I just verified via the ABC website that the entire season of MNF IS being broadcast in HD, so I guess we aren't seeing the real thing yet. The sound is just 2.0 as well, not DD 5.1.

When you see the real thing on MNF it will look great , I'm watching it on WOLO since WLOS is not doing it in HD yet, I'm just lucky enough to live in Enoree, where I can get Columbia and Charlotte also.

I'm sure the HD feed will look great next week :). At least the upconvert looks better than the local channels feed on DirecTV. Now, if we can get WHNS to do the Sunday afternoon games, we'll be set.

Here is an address for the WHNS GM:

Stan Crumley
E-mail Address(es):
Stan.Crumley@foxcarolina.com

So now that WLOS has their HD going, is there any word on when they'll crank up the power? I live in Taylors, have a tiny antenna, and have trees all over the place, so I'm kind of out of the loop until the boost their signal.

I also got the 16 X 9 feed last night, but I still haven't seen any HD. MNF was just the 4 X 3 feed with grey bars on the side.

Strangecock: I'm not sure what they're at right now, but you may not ever get it any better than it is right now. I couldn't pick them up until I put a DB4 on my roof with a rotor. Their tower is on Mt. Pisgah, about 35 miles from me. I'm about 6 mi north of Greer, so I'm not too far from you. There also could be an issue of being under the cliff edge, which means the mountains could be blocking some of the signal as well. Its just one of the downfalls of being in a "hyphened" market with your affiliates being in different cities. However, the FCC just changed their rules and digital transponders may not be too far down the road, so we might see one of those pop up in our area to help us out. Until then, you might consider upgrading your antenna system. Look at it this way: Some of us spend a hundred dollars for a set of Monster cables that gives minimal improvment, but neglect to spend a hundred dollars for a better antenna or a rotor that has drastic improvement. Go figure!

dashaund

Did you really mean digital "transponders"...or did you mean translators. DirecTV has announced it will launch satellites for local to local HDTV/DT carriage next year. They seem assured of FCC approval. Meanwhile, I have been watching for info on use of translators for DT but have seen nothing...except for a test situation in Utah where translators have been used to make 100 mile jumps into small communities. I continue to be amazed at the UHF-DT signal advantages over analog.

My mistake...I meant translators. True, the UHF-DT signal advantages do beat out analog. Interference has less effects on digital that analog. The key is to have a good receiver along with a good antenna system. I've had a couple of cheap digital receivers that made it a nightmare to receive more than two channels. My Hughes HTL-HD does an excellent job.

I got an e-mail from Jim Carrier at WLOS and he said thet have another power increase scheduled very soon.

I also asked when they would be passing along HD and he didn't answer that question.

Here is the answer I received from Jim:
ABC is HD is very near.
We increased power about a month ago. Will increase further in the near
future.

Jim

I just got off the phone with Charter, making arrangements for HD service. I asked about DVR service, and they said HD-DVRs should be rolled out in "a couple of weeks" -- I didn't ask about Moxi by name, but hopefully that's what we can look forward to. I was also told that CBS and Fox are part of the HD package now, and although I don't have the service to verify quite yet, I was under the impression that is not correct.

Here is a status report for WHNS/Fox
>>Our equipment is on order and should be here in about three to four weeks. Due to such a high demand on the equipment orders have been backed up. Our original goal was to have HD up and running by now. Our new goal will be to present HD in time (or earlier) for the World Series. We apologize for the delay but it has been out of our control.<<

Warmest regards,

Stan Crumley
Vice President- General Manager

Here is a status report for WHNS/Fox
>>Our equipment is on order and should be here in about three to four weeks. Due to such a high demand on the equipment orders have been backed up. Our original goal was to have HD up and running by now. Our new goal will be to present HD in time (or earlier) for the World Series. We apologize for the delay but it has been out of our control.<<

Warmest regards,

Stan Crumley
Vice President- General Manager

Here is a report from WSPA in answer to a request for HD status on cable.

<<We are not on any cable company with our DT signal at this time. <<


...as if you cable subscribers did not know that.

Whew, that's great news from FOX. I had been hearing they wouldn't have it until the Super Bowl. The World Series is MUCH closer. One month from now versus four months from now.

But all I really care about is that they have it up in time for "24" in January.

Thanks for the updates; keep the good news coming.

Feeling is mutual. Great news on this end. I heard it was going to be sometime in December not that long ago. In time for the World Series? Sounds good to me! Now I might only miss half of the NFL regular season in HD!

Looks like WLOS got it fixed! I'm watching "My Wife And Kids" in HD. Monday night can't come soon enough...

I second the fact that WLOS is now showing true 16:9 HD pictures. It looks like they fixed everything and are actually passing through the original network HD feed rather than just upscaling the standard SD feed.

Three down, one major network to go! And that is great news about Fox - hopefully it won't be long now untill all major networks are in HD OTA locally.

Lets get WHNS in HD, then lets get this WSPA audio feed fixed. I'm sure we're all tired of hearing about it on the boards, but I'm tired of hearing the crappy feed period. I know we're beating a dead horse here, but my gosh. Have pride in your signal and get it fixed. I do have once question though: isn't there an FCC ruling of only about 17 mb per channel or something, right? So, a true HD signal consumes the entire bandwidth. But what about the ones with multiple channels with an HD feed? Such as, WLOS (13-1,2,3). Wouldn't that constrain the HD feed to a lesser bitrate? If so, I know WBTV has three sub channels, yet their HD feed's PQ looks as good at WSPA. Are they violating FCC policies? I know WLOS's PQ is a little less that desireable right now, and I figured it might be a lower bitrate. Feel free to comment, I'm trying to figure this out.

Originally posted by dashaund
Lets get WHNS in HD, then lets get this WSPA audio feed fixed. I'm sure we're all tired of hearing about it on the boards, but I'm tired of hearing the crappy feed period. I know we're beating a dead horse here, but my gosh. Have pride in your signal and get it fixed. I do have once question though: isn't there an FCC ruling of only about 17 mb per channel or something, right? So, a true HD signal consumes the entire bandwidth. But what about the ones with multiple channels with an HD feed? Such as, WLOS (13-1,2,3). Wouldn't that constrain the HD feed to a lesser bitrate? If so, I know WBTV has three sub channels, yet their HD feed's PQ looks as good at WSPA. Are they violating FCC policies? I know WLOS's PQ is a little less that desireable right now, and I figured it might be a lower bitrate. Feel free to comment, I'm trying to figure this out.

The actual bitrate for the channel is approximately 19.4 MB/Sec. This includes audio, PSIP data, housekeeping data, etc., so the actual bandwidth available for video is about 15 MB/Sec. ( I may be off a bit here...).

The FCC requires the stations to have a digital signal on the air, but does NOT require High-Definition. Stations wishing to transmit High Definition are free to allocate whatever bandwidth they feel is appropriate, but I believe the consensus is that anything less than about 12 MB/sec. is pretty awful for pixellization in scenes where a lot of changes are going on.

A Standard Definition picture can be sent in approximately 4 MB/sec. while simple images like a fixed outdoor camera, or a weather radar display can be handled with much less than that.

With these estimates, a station can transmit one HD picture in reasonably good quality, and one full-bandwidth SD, or a couple of low-bandwidth images, simultaneously, or as many as four SD simultaneously if there is no HD. North Carolina ETV does this, and actually drops a couple of the SD signals in the evening when they transmit HD.

The best encoders use Statistical Multiplexing, which dynamically allocates bandwidth to the various signals, based on need. This means that when one or more signals requires less bandwidth at any instant, the "left-over" portion can be used by another signal. The result is that more video can be transmitted with less degradation.

I realize this is a little long-winded, but I hope it is useful.

Originally posted by rchalk
The actual bitrate for the channel is approximately 19.4 MB/Sec. This includes audio, PSIP data, housekeeping data, etc., so the actual bandwidth available for video is about 15 MB/Sec. ( I may be off a bit here...).

The FCC requires the stations to have a digital signal on the air, but does NOT require High-Definition. Stations wishing to transmit High Definition are free to allocate whatever bandwidth they feel is appropriate, but I believe the consensus is that anything less than about 12 MB/sec. is pretty awful for pixellization in scenes where a lot of changes are going on.

A Standard Definition picture can be sent in approximately 4 MB/sec. while simple images like a fixed outdoor camera, or a weather radar display can be handled with much less than that.

With these estimates, a station can transmit one HD picture in reasonably good quality, and one full-bandwidth SD, or a couple of low-bandwidth images, simultaneously, or as many as four SD simultaneously if there is no HD. North Carolina ETV does this, and actually drops a couple of the SD signals in the evening when they transmit HD.

The best encoders use Statistical Multiplexing, which dynamically allocates bandwidth to the various signals, based on need. This means that when one or more signals requires less bandwidth at any instant, the "left-over" portion can be used by another signal. The result is that more video can be transmitted with less degradation.

I realize this is a little long-winded, but I hope it is useful.

As a PS to this, when a show originates on film, shot at 24 frames-per-second, the DTV encoder recognizes the duplicated frames resulting from the 3-2 pulldown, and deletes them. They are re-inserted by the receiver, so the TV display is still at 30 FPS, but there is a 20% decrease in data being sent, and a corresponding reduction in bandwidth requirement.

Over the last year or so I have fiddled with antennas, and have finally reached a satisfactory (and cheap) solution. I started with a cheapo RCA amplified settop antenna from Walmart. It worked OK if you were willing to fiddle with it for different stations (including the preamp level) and settle for some dropouts.
I ended up with a ChannelMaster 4228 on a five foot mast mounted upside down at the highest point of my attic, no preamp or amp. All in, I think it cost $60. I am fortunate to have a walkin attic, so it was not a difficult install. The lowest point of the antenna is about 8" over my outstretched hand, so I use a notched stick to change the orientation. The mast is attached to a crossmember by two brackets lagscrewed into the member. They are tight enough to keep it from dropping, but still allow it to be turned.
At 10AM this morning, I recorded the following signal strengths without touching the antenna.

Station Signal Orientation of Miles
Station

4-1 93% 282 31
7-1 100% 306 14
13-1 69% 309 46
21-1 93% 289 36
33-1 69% 309 46


Of course I can also get other stations, but you get the idea. The orientation and mileage is from antennaweb.org. The tuner is a Samsung 360.

I am very pleased with these results, and even 13-1 yields a stable picture for prolonged periods. This means I don't have to mount an outside antenna (which pleases my wife and saves a lot of money), and I don't need a rotor.

Bring on Monday Night Football!

Thanks for sharing your results, mgtr. I see you live in Inman...do you have a pretty clear shot over the mountains? Unfortunately for my location, I have problems getting signals over the mountains. It's true: the best setup is the one that works for you. And I agree...bring on MNF!

Dashaund-
I am fortunate - not only are all the stations I want in the same general direction, but I think that if I could put a tall enough ladder on my roof, and had a strong telescope, I could probably see all the antennas. I am actually about 3 miles further from the broadcast antennas than antennaweb suggests.
The trick is to study your situation and find what works for you. I have, in the past, had a multipath problem. With my 4228 in a different, lower location and oriented to about 300 degrees, channel 4-1 would give readings which varied as follows: 77%, 39%, no signal. At least I assume this is multipath. The same antenna is now higher and oriented to about 280 or 285 degrees to yield the results shown above, where 4-1 is rock solid. The multipath may have the result of other houses in the neighborhood, or perhaps part of my own house.
By the way, my HT is on the second floor of my house, which is one reason I could slide by with a cheapo settop antenna - it was already pretty high up.
I also experimented with an A-B switch between my two antennas, so that I could still get 55-1 in Rock Hill with my settop antenna. That works, but is not probably worth the effort to fiddle with it unless you really want 55-1. I could also get another 4228 and orient it to the east, using the A-B switch to change between them. I am certain that would work, but for me it is not worth the effort.

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
<<We are not on any cable company with our DT signal at this time. <<

I'm not sure if Charter is breaking some sort of agreement or what, but when I plug my cable directly into my TV and use its built-in tuner, I pick up WSPA in 1080i on C103.2. Right now, it's a pillarboxed episode of Judge Judy, but it's definitely a 1080i signal coming through. As I cycled through the other digital channels my TV detected, the only other one showing up as 1080i at the moment is C102.3 (Braves HD). I'll check again in primetime and see what else, if anything, rears its head. Perhaps WSPA isn't accessible over a set-top box, but it is with a QAM tuner? Maybe the tuner is picking up WSPA through some other means? (I don't have an antenna plugged in, just the cable coax.) I'm not savvy enough to know for sure.

Edit -- just to confirm, taking a quick peek at Joan of Arcadia on WSPA, however I'm receiving this signal, it's definitely high-def.

WYFF has been out all all day, now I cant get WLOS or 25-1 PBS, Can someone else confirm this?

I am experiencing the same thing. WYFF- kept dropping out last night and finally we didn't get a signal- I assumed it was just my signal and the fact that it was so windy. But I checked it when I got home today and it is still out. I also checked my equipment and antena, so I think the issue is with the signal. I also do not get WLOS-DT.

I'm glad someone else is experiencing the same thing. However, I am a little surprised that more people haven't chimed in. Is anyone out there currently (as of 5:15pm Friday evening) getting WYFF-DT or WLOS-DT OTA?? If you are, please post because then it must be with my equipment, or the stations have had to drop power considerably for some reason (please make sure your location is noted). Thanks.

Good to confirm. I assume it is caused by power outages as they don't have back-up power for digital yet.

Thanks for the heads up, Adam. Worked like a charm!

Apps1: Heading up the mountain tomorrow? Go Apps!

Hello AppState: I am not going to be able to make it up for the Citadel, but I am hoping to make it up for Texas State.

Sorry guys, I can't take all this Appy talk, so Go Paladins.

And of course, Go Cocks.

For some reason WSPA does not have the Florida-Tennessee game in HiDef. I don't understand it.. However, I do get the Charlotte stations (3-1). Great picture and DD5.1 (in sync with picture). Are the interns running the shop at Channel 7?

I called the newsroom to remind the master control people that the game is in HD. She said they tried to "flip the switch" but it wouldnt work and that it must be a "network problem". of course WBTV-DT is on the same network and has no problems. Considering the sound issues at WSPA and now this, I have come to the inescabable conclusion the WSPA managment just doesn't care about DT or HD viewers.

I agree. But maybe they now tried a different switch, because it is now is HD and DD5.1. Go figure.

I'm amazed at WSPA's performance in HD broadcasting. CBS is taking a lot of pride in leading the way in HD, yet here we are in MONTH 4 or 5 with the sync problem, ect. Maybe everyone on this forum needs to drop a line to CBS and tell them about how WSPA is just not the standard in HDTV broadcasting here.

The reply FOX carolina gave about when the HD gets turned on there, I'll believe it when I see it!

Maybe if we send notes to their advertisers that we are switching to WBTV Charlotte and explain why. I think most everyone in the Spartanburg area could get WBTV with a moderate antenna. And it also has more SS than WSPA.

I live in Taylors, and I'm curious to hear that WLOS is broadcasting in HD now, and that it is on 13-3. I just did a scan (granted it was 5:30am) and all I see is the usual 13-1 and 13-2. 13-2 has been the same as 40-1 which is the WB. I would really like to watch MNF in HD. I watch NFL Games in HD all day Sunday with the DTV Sunday ticket, and then the Sunday night game in ESPN-HD, and it's a huge letdown to watch the really bad SD feed of WLOS that comes in on Monday nights. The person who installed my DTV installed a Weingard HD antenna for ota signals. I honestly don't know if that is good or bad, but given the location it's mounted on my roof I'm not in a big hurry to try and replace it.

The best news I've heard is that DTV will be giving us local HD feeds through their satellite. It's one thing to broadcast in HD, but it's quite another to actually get it out with enough power to reach all of us.

As far as OTA signals I only get WSPA and WBSC consistently. I don't know what has happened to WYFF. A month ago I could get it consistently when it was broadcasting the olympics but nothing now.

I guess I will do another scan of local channels before the game Monday night to see if I can pull in 13-3 to watch the game in HD.

Walter

Originally posted by walterc
I don't know what has happened to WYFF. A month ago I could get it consistently when it was broadcasting the olympics but nothing now.

I think their digital output is completely offline right now. A couple others have reported not being able to tune in OTA, and I'm not seeing anything at all through Charter either.

I am still getting no signal from WLOS or WYFF. Is anyone out there receiving either?

When WSPA screwed up Fl vs Tn I thought I woud give WBTV a try and voila, mid 80's rock solid. I live approx 5 miles NE of dowtown G'ville.

WLOS, WUNC and WYFF digital all continue to be off the air. Does anyone know when they will be back on?--- I dont understand the difference between WLOS-1 and WLOS-3. My Samsung Directv receiver does show -1 as 480 and -3 as 1080i. Why do we need -1?--- Will we ever have HD on WLOS-2? There seem to be as many HD programs on WB as ABC.

The previous post and this one shows GSOgymrat. Actually I am FordW in Asheville. I will try to fix this later.

Originally posted by Adam Tyner
I think their digital output is completely offline right now. A couple others have reported not being able to tune in OTA, and I'm not seeing anything at all through Charter either.

Same with me... no WYFF over the air or on Charter.

WYFF and WLOS do not have the capacity in their backup generators to run both analog and digital transmitters at the same time, so we know which one does not go on at that time,:(

Just got DSL back after several days. Still no commercial power. Got a note from Wayne Estabrooks that both WUNF-DT and WLOS-DT signed off to conserve electrical power until they can repair the road to generator site and thus receive fuel delivery. Also, the Channel 33 power was reduced to conserve fuel.
I also lost WYFF-DT several days ago, probably for the same reason.