I was out of town for a couple of days. I came back and can confirm that WLOS and WYFF are down right now. I'm thinking that MAYBE WHNS has lowered their power a little bit. Anyone else noticing this or could it be a problem on my end? I had to spin my rotor around to try and find a hot spot, when usually I don't have that problem and can get it very strongly in just a simple direction. I picked up a new 5.1 system while I was out of town...WOW! I'm watching Dallas and Cleveland right now on WBTV (WSPA has some serious sound issues as we all know). Definitely glad I invested in this. I've got a H/K DPL 1001 (open box at CC for $379...what a deal) and a Bose Acouticmass 6 (small room, so I didn't need a ton of power). I'm hoping WLOS can get the power back on for MNF tomorrow night. Aren't we all?

Let me see if I understand. When WLOS gets back to broadcasting digitial then the 1080i signal will be coming in on 13-3? If so then I'll need to do another channel scan (I have DirecTV with an HDTivo that also has an OTA input coming from a Wengard OTA HD antenna) and see if 13-3 shows up? I'm a little confused as to why 13-2 is the same as 40-1. WBSC (40) comes out of Anderson so why would it come on the same frequency as an Asheville station? Are they owned by the same company?

I'm watching the Browns/Cowboys game and going back and forth from the HD Feed from Sunday Ticket and the feed from 7-1. The Sunday Ticket feed looks cleaner, so I'm not sure if the 7-1 feed is HD or just an upconvert.

Yes, WLOS-HD will come in on 13-3 at 720p (ESPN and ABC prefers 720p over 1080i...I think FOX does too but not sure). When it comes back up do another scan. WBSC is owned and run by WLOS...same company. They send out the WB feed for their Asheville viewers (I think), and others that can't get 40-1. I hope they will eventually turn it off and use it to give more bandwidth to the HD feed.

Yes, the Anderson station is owned by Sinclair and it appears that WLOS has FCC permission to broadcast the WBSC from Pisgah, and as a digital service on WLOS-DT. If I understand your question, you should be receiving 13-3 now...although not as HD. And until they can get the fuel truck to the generator at the bottom of their cog railway, the DT station will not be on the air to conserve fuel.
And a note to respond to an earlier posting....
WLOS and WUNF are now using their new generator...and can operate under normal conditions both UNC-TV and WLOS DTs transmitters without power cutbacks.

Re 720 p. There are advantages to 720p, especially with respect to band-width. Most demonstrations show that 720p is a close match to 1080i. This allows multiple program service to continue duiring HDTV operations.

I can't get 13-1 or 13-2 right now so I doubt doing a scan will pull in 13-3. Can anyone confirm that 13-1 and 13-2 are up so that I'll know that it's a signal strength issue, and not that they're not broadcasting at all?

Update: At 5:50pm I did a signal strength test on 13-1 and got zero, so it looks like it may not be up at all. If someone is getting it while I'm getting a zero then I must have very bad reception. Once I know the digitals are transmitting I'll do another scan to see if I can pull in 13-3. I'd love to see MNF in HiDef particularly with this week's matchup!

Update: 6:20pm. Fox 21-1 has been coming in and out with it being out right now with a signal strength between 15 and 25. It's not in HD anyway so hopefully it will go HD and increase strength at the same time. If so I should get it. Just keeping my fingers crossed for the Super Bowl in HD. Still nothing with 13-1.

Update on the Cowboys game. The more I look at the game going back and forth it very well could be that the 7-1 feed is HD and not an upconvert. One good thing about sporting events is that the WSPA audio problem isn't a factor :)

Starting with Halftime I was no longer able to get the Sunday Ticket HD Feed of the Cowboys/Browns so I'm glad it looks pretty good on 7-1. There must have been a mixup today with the blackout settings because I was able to watch all of the Panthers/Chiefs game in HD through Sunday Ticket.

It is interesting that people we not getting the Florida/Tennessee game in HD. Maybe they corrected their problem after the start of the game, but I was watching it in glorious 16:9 HD on 7-1 OTA. I don't recall exactly at what point I was watching it because I was watching the Clemson debacle on TBS. In fact, I think the game looked great in HD under the lights.

EDIT - I just read another person's post that confirms that they did get it into HD at some point during the game. I must have missed the beginning of it.

13-1 is still not coming in so if anyone can confirm when it is back up I'll check again. I'm hoping to get MNF tonight in HD.

Re WLOS and WUNF-DT

Per my above message, both of these stations' DT has been suspended until they can get fuel trucks into their jointly operated generator equipment. Meanwhile, they are conserving fuel by this action, and by reduced analog power on Channel 33. Analog still services most of the community, and DT is considered secondary and expendable at this time.

It looks like WYFF is back.

I now have both WYFF and WLOS back. It also looks like WLOS has finished with their testing and have gone back to broadcasting 13 on just one digital channel (13-1), but it is in 720p. This is good news as they aren't wasting bandwidth by sending out a SD and HD feed of the same thing.

I also got WYFF back this afternoon, while WLOS is now on the air where a couple of hours ago it wasn't.

HERE COMES MNF IN HD.

I have WYFF back. I'm thinking they MIGHT have boosted their power slightly. I'm getting a very low signal reading on WLOS...I hope they boost their power and/or I get better propogation after the sun goes down for MNF. That sucks :(. Anyway, I'm glad their back on. I've got my fingers crossed. Seems like I was doing this last week too :).

I am getting 13-1 and the MNF game in HD, but it's coming in and out. The signal strength is ranging from the 18 to 38. Can anyone take a guess at about what percentage of full strength they are broadcasting, and when they might be increasing their signal?

For some reason the sound effects and music are regular volumne, but when someone is talking live it's like their mics are cut way down. This might be an issue with the network, or it could be WLOS.

Walter

Getting a rock solid 88 SS here in Enoree, looks real good. Thank you WLOS.

Anyone having a problem with WSPA 7 ?

I tuned in because Charlotte lost audio on HD and then switched over to SD, but for some reason I'm not picking it up.

sound is up, just out of sync really bad

I've had to go to my office and watch it on the TV I do my regular viewing. It was breaking up too bad. I'll try it again later. I figure you're going to get it the best you can around this time so until WLOS cranks it up some more I'm out of luck.

For signal strength I'm getting the following

WYFF- 62
WSPA-78
WHNS-67
WLOS-25

What's odd is that WHNS is coming in so well and WLOS so bad? Aren't they both coming from Asheville?

Well I'm not going to sweat it too much. The only thing I watch on ABC is MNF and Alias. As long as I can get the Playoffs and Superbowl in HD I'll be happy.

Originally posted by CPanther95
Anyone having a problem with WSPA 7 ?

I tuned in because Charlotte lost audio on HD and then switched over to SD, but for some reason I'm not picking it up.

WSPA is coming in well here. (Taylors, SC)

By the way I'm using the HD Tivo from DirecTV as my HD Receiver, and I've heard some people saying that it's kind of weak in OTA Reception since it splits the input so you can record two off air channels at once. If someone is also using a HD Tivo in this area I'd be interested to know you're readings.

Originally posted by Adam Tyner
It looks like WYFF is back.
...although they're not showing anything in HD tonight...? I thought LAX and Las Vegas were both slated to air in HD. Dunno if someone forgot to flip a switch or if there are still some issues lingering from the outage.

I've got HD and 5.1 here on WYFF. Maybe they flipped the switch before I tuned in. Looks great to me!

I'm getting it in HD now too. Maybe I should've waited a few more minutes before posting.... :D

Re WSPA DT, my signal was all over the place tonight, with frequent loss of picture altogether. I had to watch CBS-HD from a different source. When I did watch WSPA, the audio was nearly twice the volume of other local stations and my other CBS HD source.

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
Re WSPA DT, my signal was all over the place tonight, with frequent loss of picture altogether. I had to watch CBS-HD from a different source. When I did watch WSPA, the audio was nearly twice the volume of other local stations and my other CBS HD source.

Looks like we had similar experiences with different stations.

For the most part I like the fact that I can get WSPA so well and not WLOS. But just for tonight I would have loved to have traded places :D

Originally posted by walterc
By the way I'm using the HD Tivo from DirecTV as my HD Receiver, and I've heard some people saying that it's kind of weak in OTA Reception since it splits the input so you can record two off air channels at once. If someone is also using a HD Tivo in this area I'd be interested to know you're readings.

Walter, I am also using an HR10-250 for most of my HD viewing. The signal loss with a 2-way splitter is only 3 dB, but if you are concerned about that, you can buy an amplifier for about $30.

In my setup, I am using an antenna preamp on the mast (channel master 7777) and a 4-way splitter/amp in the house, feeding the tuner in the TV, the DirecTV unit, and a Samsung tuner in another room. I am only a few miles from Toccoa, GA's Channel 32, but if I keep the antenna pointed eastward, I do not have any problems with overloads (YMMV). I get maximums on most channels in the 80's.

Originally posted by rchalk
Walter, I am also using an HR10-250 for most of my HD viewing. The signal loss with a 2-way splitter is only 3 dB, but if you are concerned about that, you can buy an amplifier for about $30.

In my setup, I am using an antenna preamp on the mast (channel master 7777) and a 4-way splitter/amp in the house, feeding the tuner in the TV, the DirecTV unit, and a Samsung tuner in another room. I am only a few miles from Toccoa, GA's Channel 32, but if I keep the antenna pointed eastward, I do not have any problems with overloads (YMMV). I get maximums on most channels in the 80's.

Given the fact that I'm getting a relatively strong signal for WHNS I'm wondering if it is just an issue with my location relative to Mt. Pisgah as to why I'm having problems with WLOS. I may venture out some time and try a 2 way splittler/amp to feed the OTA input on the HD Tivo and the Tuner on my TV to see if the TV's Tuner pulls it in any better. It could also be that I need a better HD Antenna than the Weingard I've got.

I'm new to HD, but it would seem that as long as you're getting a signal strength of 50 or above then you're probably going to get a good steady picture. Also it would stand to logic that a person with a signal strength of 90 isn't going to get a better picture than someone with 50. Is that correct?

Here's another wrinkle in this. I just did a signal strength test, and I'm pegging 90 on every channel including WLOS.

I don't understand why I am getting 90 now on WLOS, and I could barely pull in 20 at 9:00pm last night?

I'll check it again tonight, but it appears that I get better reception during the day. I would have thought it would be the opposite?

I have to admit, your situation is pretty complex. One thing to clear up, its not how strong your signal is, its how stable it is. For example: you may have an 90% signal strength, but if the signal isn't very stable, you'll experience a lot of signal fade, therefore creating unstable picture and sound. A better antenna and receiver can cure this problem if this is what you're experiencing. As far as your signal strength being strong this morning and not last night, that is very confusing. Being a ham, I can tell you this: higher frequencies travel farther in the daytime and lower frequencies travel farther at night due to the ionosphere conditions. Digital TV signals are predominantly in the upper UHF spectrum, somewhere around 700mhz. However, you can't use this as concrete evidence. Sometimes the signals "open up," causing them to travel farther distances at obscure times, not just night or day. Also as a general rule, the higher the frequency goes, the more line-of-sight it becomes and the more likely it is the obstructed by objects like building and trees and such. Is your head starting to hurt now? I've noticed with WSOC, channel 9 in Charlotte, it usually comes in at about midnight or later and goes away at 10am. It's due to the ionosphere being discharged after the sunsets and being charged when it rises, taking a few hours to cycle through each way. The best thing to do is the work on your antenna system. The higher the better, rotors really help. I see you have a Winegard, what kind? I've had terrific performance from my DB4 from antennasdirect.com. I've never used an HD TiVo, so I don't know what to tell you about that. Keep tinkering and keep us updated.

Well my signals are all messed up now. WHNS is 27, WLOS is 15, WYFF is even low at 33, and WSPA is still the only consistent one at 72.

I'm wondering if these stations are tinkering around with their output. I could understand WHNS and WLOS having such a fluctuation since I'm in Taylors, but not WYFF?

I think I do have the DB4. For people like me the only solution might be when they start broadcasting local high def channels through DirecTV.

walterc- I bet if you installed a CM7777 pre-amp you would get all rock solid like I do. Give it a shot.

Originally posted by Apps1
walterc- I bet if you installed a CM7777 pre-amp you would get all rock solid like I do. Give it a shot.

Being a total newbie to all things HD, what is that and where could I get it? How easy to install?

I'm willing to try anything. If it doesn't improve things and isn't difficult to install/uinstall then I can just take it back and get a refund.

I got mine here . Takes 5 minutes to install.
http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/HDTV_preamps.htm

I've tried to do a search to see where it installs, but I can't tell if it has to attach to the antenna (which is way up on my roof and hard to get to) or to the receiver?

If you just install it to the receiver then that would be easy, and I'd probably do that. If it has to go up on the roof with the antenna then I might have to get it installed.

got something strange. The audio is distorted. "according to Jim" show has muffled audio with lines from the 'actors", but the audience and music sound good. Any one else having a problem.

Thanks,
JB

WLOS-DT, yes with the volume all the way up, about all you can hear is the laugh track, 5.1 audio is the same, very bad, unwatchable. The football game was ok.

I had problems with WLOS tonight...but the loud sound on WSPA led me to send WSPA's Ron Peeler another note. His response was:

<<Jerry,
You may want to compare our level with other stations. I just checked between WYFF, WHNS, and WLOS. WLOS is very low, but we are the same level as the other three stations. You may want to check your receiver. I haven't received any complaints in over 6 to 8 months pertaining to audio level. We were hot at that time.


Ron Peeler
Chief Engineer
WSPA/ WASV-TV
Spartanburg, SC 29303
864-587-4435
mailto:rpeeler@wspa.com

-----Original Message>>

After receiving Ron's response, I re-checked WLOS...and believe the network audio was out of phase. Local audio feeds seemed ok.

Please send Ron a note if you also experience very loud audio on WSPA.

Originally posted by Fordw
WLOS-DT, yes with the volume all the way up, about all you can hear is the laugh track, 5.1 audio is the same, very bad, unwatchable. The football game was ok.

This is exactly what I experienced last night with MNF for the few minutes I was able to pull it in. You could hear the crowd noise and the music, but anytime Al Michaels or John Madden spoke it was like their mic was turned way down.

I've not experienced any problems with WSPA. It's the only station that's been consistent for me since I first got HD August 16 this year.

I've looked into the pre-amp some more, and it does appear that you connect it directly to the antenna so since I don't have a ladder that tall nor do I know someone who does I'll probably be contacting the person who did the original install and see if they can do it.

I have another question for you guys. This may have been covered before, but I'm wondering why WASV (the UPN affiliate) does not broadcast in HD since it is owned by the same company as WSPA who have been broadcasting in HD for awhile now?

I mean if WBSC out of Anderson can broadcast in Digital at least WASV could do that?

More on WLOS-HD, I guess the problem with the audio was present on MNF, I only watched it for a minute. The audio is WAY out of sync with the video, so you can hardly tell what is going on on a sitcom.

walterc- WASV broadcasts a 4 X 3 digital signal on 45-1.

The sound on WLOS was inaudible last night. WSPA and WASV are louder than everyone else.

After several exchanges of e-mail with Ron Peeler, C.E., WSPA, I believe he has set audio levels at Dolby specs and that the wide variation is spread among the stations, and that most are running low level. Never-the-less we viewers are the losers until there are better industry standards.
Ron has monitored other local DT transmissions, plus CBS Charlotte, and finds that Charlotte and WSPA are comparable -- others are low. He will continue to program WSPA for - 29 dB Dolby setting. It appears our option is to try to get other stations to match WSPA and set the audio at the Dolby recommended level.

Jerry,

That doesn't surprise me too much because it seems as though WSPA sounds the same as HDnet.

Did he say anything about the lip synch problem they still have?

Mike

Originally posted by Apps1
walterc- WASV broadcasts a 4 X 3 digital signal on 45-1.

If this is what maps to 62-1 DirecTV then I do get it, but it doesn't look any different than the standard 62 station. But you can see a noticeable difference with WBSC on their 40-1 as opposed to their standard 40.

Mike:
Please give me a brief account of your experiences with WSPA problems and I will also observe tonight. I need to be specific when I communicate with the station about the problem.

ALL: Please describe any audio problems you have recently experienced with WSPA.

Walterc:

Digital transmission over the air frequently looks no better than the analog signal in that it cannot improve on a bad origination. The advantage is that DT is ghost free and does not add video noise to what is already there. Garbage in, garbage out.

Mike:

I would bet on HDNet being close to recommended standards. I find few faults with this operation. Cuban is spending a ton and I certainly hope it pays off for him. We all own him gratitude for being the only source of HD coverage of the political conventions.

Jerry,

I'm watching OTA on a Panasonic PT50-LC13 with a Zenith HD 520 receiver using DVI to the display and optical out to my Sony receiver. It appears as an audio lag. For example during the US Open, a player would hit the ball and just after it went over the net you would hear the sound of the player hitting the ball and grunting. This only occurs on HD shows when their passing DD5.1. During commercials it seems to adjust back to being on.

Now during football it isn't nearly as bad as it was for tennis but since you don't see the announcers it isn't as noticible either.

I'll see what its like on CSI tonight for a more up to date experience.

Thanks

I've set the HDTivo to record CSI and Without a Trace on 7-1 so I'll let you know if I notice anything.

I had a CSI repeat taped last week, and it seemed like the audio lag was a lot better.

Can anyone give me some suggestions on how I can get WHNS-DT? I am using a DISH network 811 receiver, and can receive WLOS, WYFF, and WUNF just fine. I am unable to get a lock on WSPA (but I received a CBS HD feed waiver, so I am ok there), WASV-DT (don't know why), and WHNS, which I REALLY want for the NFC football games. I can get 50% signal, but no lock. I am using a large UHF/VHF antenna with a winegard preamp.

gjlowe
If you receive WYFF-DT chances are that you should receive WHNS-DT. Their towers are close together, WYFF at Caesar's Head, WHNS on Rich Mountain...the tallest tower in the region. I can see their flashing lights from Town Mountain Road, above Haw Creek. Drop me a PM with more specific location of your antenna. it's type and orientation.

I really hadn't noticed it before, but Jerry is right. When I can pull in WYFF I can also pull in WHNS. Right now I'm getting everything but WLOS. Hopefully I'll get a preamp installed by the first part of next week, and then I'll report the results.

It appears that WSPA has fixed their audio lag. Their were no noticeable lip synch issues with tonight's CSI-NY. I hope that this continues, cuz we've been waiting serveral months for this.

I 2nd the no problems with WSPA tonight. I watched CSI:NY and it was right on.

Jerry:

If this holds up please pass along our thanks to the engineer at WSPA with whom you've been conversing.

On another note I'm waiting to hear back from my installer as to whether or not the CM7777 will work for me. My antenna is mounted high up on my roof on the 2nd story and initially he wondered how we would plug one up unless I had an outlet in my attic. I've asked hiim to look at the specs for the CM7777 to see if the power supply can be connected somewhere else or if it has to be close to the antenna up in the attic.

Today I got WSPA, WBSC, and WASV rock solid as usual, and WYFF and WHNS for most of the afternoon and evening with these two going out around midnight. WLOS was MIA all day. If a PreAmp just helps me get WYFF and WHNS more steady then I'll be satisfied with that. I'd love to get WLOS for MNF but other than that I don't watch a lot on ABC so I could hold out until they get HD locals on DirecTV's satellite fee.

Well, lets hope WSPA has their audio issues fixed, because WLOS now has audio issues on their 13-1 station. Last night I tried watching the premier of LOST and had to switch to 13-0 because it was so bad. It was the same problem as before - the dialog was much lower than all other noises in the feed. I believe they were sending out a stereo feed and not 5.1, but it was like their equipment was lowering the center channel volume. All effects and other background noises were regular volume. You had to turn up the volume really loud to understand the dialog, but then you were blown out by the other sounds. Like I said, I had to switch to the SD feed just to watch it. :(

Originally posted by walterc
On another note I'm waiting to hear back from my installer as to whether or not the CM7777 will work for me. My antenna is mounted high up on my roof on the 2nd story and initially he wondered how we would plug one up unless I had an outlet in my attic. I've asked hiim to look at the specs for the CM7777 to see if the power supply can be connected somewhere else or if it has to be close to the antenna up in the attic.

The CM7777 is a preamp - meaning that it is a two part set up. You have the premap which is unpowered and gets connected on the antenna right between the antenna and the main antenna feed going into the house. There is a second part - the power supply, which can be inserted in the line anywhere after the preamp and the distribution block (or splitters, etc - whatever you are using to split the signal to the different TVs). It obviously requires a power source, so hopefully you do have power close to your distribution block. It might be that the original installer but the distribution block in the attic where there is no power and that is his concern.

I just bought a CM7777 to install on my new house (don't close until next week) and I don't remember seeing a limit on the distance between the preamp and the power supply, but I can go back and check. if you would like. The directions are sitting on my kitchen table, so I can check it easily.

walterc:
I am using a CM 7777 on a test basis to improve a weak VHF signal, Ch 9 from Greenville. But, I also let it amplify the seven UHF signals I that I normally receive with stability but different strengths. It has increased the signal strength reading on the UHF channels, most moving up from 80s to 90-100 percent range, and channel 9 now is in the 77-85 percent range.
It has not overloaded nor adversely affected any signals. Therefore I am pleased with its performance.
As for installation, the reason to install the amplifier section on the mast at the antenna is to avoid amplifying any noise generated by the line, and to amply the maximum signal collected by the antenna system before line losses.
However, you can check the results of the amplifier by installing it closer to the receiver. The power supply must go in the line before the amplifier and the usual placement is with the receiving equipment. The amplifier section can be placed with a short cable immediately after the power supply, and to the leadin from the antenna. The end results that you will have a short coax between the receiver and the power supply, then a short coax between the power supply and the amplifier, and the antenna leadin connected to the CM 7777. Note that the CM 7777 has an internal switch to allow either a combined UHF/VHF signal, or separate UHF and VHF lines in. Observe instructions that came with the amplifier.

This defeats some of the advantages for an antenna mast mounted installation, but will tell you if there is some improvement in the weaker signals.
The most important aspect for receiving the problem stations is the antenna orientation. In my case, my 4 bay CM antenna is pointing at my weakest UHF stations (WLOS and WUNF) and it still receives an adequate signal from all the other DT transmitters even though there is more than a 90 degree spread.
I have modified the UHF antenna somewhat by using a short di-pole on one of the terminals of the antenna in order to increase the WSPA-DT reception and it does not decrease other desirable signals. I will send you a picture of it if you wish. It is simply a 7" #14 wire connected to one side of the terminals and bent parallel to WSPA's transmitter. It works!
Later, if ever there is a need to service the antenna, you can move the 7777 to the mast.

walterc:
To clear up a matter in your earlier posting, the CM 7777 power supply reduces line voltage and sends the necessary preamp power up the coax to the preamp. A power supply is not needed at or near the mast mounted preamp. That is why the power supply can be with your receiver/media setup. I have used up to 200 feet of coax for the power and it still performed ok. I have seen specs on the maximum run for adequate power, but cannot find it now.
Check the CM website for tech support if you have a concern, but your coax run is not long enough to be concerned.

Jerry- I would like to see a picture of the modification you made to enhance WSPA's signal. This is the only channel that requires me to sometimes use my rotor to fine tune. This generally happens during bad weather.

asumike@bellsouth.net

walterc:

I just wanted to plug another avforum member. I picked up my CM 7777 from Corey Brazell aka "cohbraz" who is with Audio Video Electronics in Newberry SC. I ordered it over the phone and they shipped it without any problems.

My signal strength went from 20's and 30's to 80's and 90's. I specifically chose the CM because it had the lowest noise ratio. My only regret is that I didn't do it sooner, as I spent a lot of time trying to adjust the antenna.

Originally posted by Fragman
walterc:

I just wanted to plug another avforum member. I picked up my CM 7777 from Corey Brazell aka "cohbraz" who is with Audio Video Electronics in Newberry SC. I ordered it over the phone and they shipped it without any problems.

My signal strength went from 20's and 30's to 80's and 90's. I specifically chose the CM because it had the lowest noise ratio. My only regret is that I didn't do it sooner, as I spent a lot of time trying to adjust the antenna.

Could you pm me his contact info.

Edit: Never mind I found it, but no one was there. If I hear back soon, and they can get it here I might just get it from them since they're so close, but otherwise I'll order it FedEx 2 day from Warren.

Walter

Just thought I'd pass along another bit of info on the whole pre-amp thing. I talked to my installer today, and he said he wasn't sure I'd see much difference since I have a short run from the antenna to the main set, and there should be very little loss of signal for the pre-amp to correct. At this point I think I'm still going to try it. I only need marginal improvement to get WHNS and WYFF solid and stable all the time, and if it pulls in ABC then that's gravy.

It looks like it will be the end of next week so I'll let you know. From the sound of things here I'm not in a hurry for WLOS until they get their audio fixed anyway. The problems on WSPA drove me nuts, and it sounds like WLOS is worse. Once again tonight I'm getting everything but WLOS. It would be nice if WHNS and WYFF would stay steady at least until 11:00pm.

walterc: You also have to consider that WLOS has yet to get their power back to up to the level that they once had it. Since the power outage they suffered after the hurricane, they haven't bumped their power levels back up. I still can't receive their signal and its been a week, and I was getting a really good lock on it before. I wouldn't pull my hair out because you can't get anything right now, because you might no be able to anyway until they get their power levels back up.

Maybe this was mentioned here earlier and I missed it, but I'm going to post it now. Anyone else noticed WBSC, 40-1, ch 14, is in 720p now? It's the SD 4x3 with gray bars on each side, but does show signs of a future HD signal being passed through. I had to rub my eyes and blink a few times when I tuned in, but my receiver does say 720p. I'm just loving all of these stations going HD. Like a breath of fresh air.

Originally posted by dashaund
Maybe this was mentioned here earlier and I missed it, but I'm going to post it now. Anyone else noticed WBSC, 40-1, ch 14, is in 720p now? It's the SD 4x3 with gray bars on each side, but does show signs of a future HD signal being passed through. I had to rub my eyes and blink a few times when I tuned in, but my receiver does say 720p. I'm just loving all of these stations going HD. Like a breath of fresh air.

I'll have to check this out. I do watch Smallville and it's broadcast in HD so I'm with you on enjoying the prospects of more HD.

Originally posted by dashaund
walterc: You also have to consider that WLOS has yet to get their power back to up to the level that they once had it. Since the power outage they suffered after the hurricane, they haven't bumped their power levels back up. I still can't receive their signal and its been a week, and I was getting a really good lock on it before. I wouldn't pull my hair out because you can't get anything right now, because you might no be able to anyway until they get their power levels back up.

I wasn't aware of this. I thought once they came back up they were broadcasting at pre-hurricane levels. It may well be that the pre-amp won't help much if at all, but I figure I've spent so much on my whole HT System that another $150 ($75 pre-amp shipped, $75 labor) is not that big of a deal. Since I have to pay for the first full hour regardless of how long it takes to install the pre-amp I asked if there were some extra time if he minded staying up on the roof and playing around with the antenna orientation while I did signal checks inside. So I'll first take initial readings, then have him install the pre-amp, take more readings, then maybe adjust the antenna unless everything is just coming in great.

Does anyone know if WYFF and WHNS are broadcasting at the same power levels now as pre-hurricane?

I'm not aware of any power dropage from WYFF or WHNS. I have found that WYFF is very "touchy" for me. I'll have a 90+% signal and then it will just drop out and then come back in. I think it could be multipath, but I don't experience it on any other channel. It was happening pre-hurricane, but it seems even worse now. Anybody else seeing this or is it just me? One thing that you might want to invest in is a rotor. Especially in this area where you have transmitters in different directions, getting your antenna lined up with the transmitter is very key in locking them in. I picked one up at Radio Shack for $99 (plus rotor cable) and it works well. I know you'd have to get that installed as well, but it is worth in if you continue to experience problems. I couldn't get WLOS at all, but once I put a rotor on it and spun it toward Asheville, I can nail it down all hours of day or night (except right now when their signal is too weak). I'd rather spend my money on a rotor than a preamp, but that's just me. I might add a preamp later on and try to pull in those weak Charlotte stations. Anybody else got anything to add?

Originally posted by walterc
Just thought I'd pass along another bit of info on the whole pre-amp thing. I talked to my installer today, and he said he wasn't sure I'd see much difference since I have a short run from the antenna to the main set, and there should be very little loss of signal for the pre-amp to correct.


I'm not so sure about your installers opinion about the difference. My run was about 50 feet. I'm not a techical expert like some here, but I thought the process increased the signal level, not just eliminated the loss of signal. I'd be curious about other's experiences.

Originally posted by dashaund
One thing that you might want to invest in is a rotor. Especially in this area where you have transmitters in different directions, getting your antenna lined up with the transmitter is very key in locking them in... I might add a preamp later on and try to pull in those weak Charlotte stations. Anybody else got anything to add?

Thanks for the input. The rotor sounds like something I'd potentially do down the road, but it would be a little more expensive to get installed than just the pre-amp. Once the pre-amp is installed and I hear confirmation that WLOS is at pre-hurricane levels I'll then have to evaluate the signal I'm getting versus others in the area, and see if a rotor might be in order. I'm hoping not...

Walterc - I also have reservations about your installers knowledge. I'm not saying he is going to do a bad job - this is an easy installation. I'm just not sure he has any experience with the CM7777. From everything I've read, this preamp is much better than most amps on the market. So if he hasn't used them in the past, he may not realize how big of a difference it will make. I personally haven't used it either, but I've bought one to install on my new house (less than a week to close now) based on everyone's experience. I've just been using a cheap Radio Shack in-line amp for my current set up.

walterc
Regarding the above postings, I would certainly invest in a rotor before a preamp if faced with the option of one or the other. Possibly the rotor will solve your problem without the preamp. Also, it is obvious that your installer is not very knowledgeable with respect to preamps...especially mast mounted. All mast mount preamps use the coax rf line to power the preamp from a inside location for the power supply. The power supply, however, should always be after splitters, etc. so that the power up the line is not disrupted.

Thanks all for the input. I would consider a rotor, but with my particular situation I'm not sure if that will help. For example I did a test this morning and was getting around 90 on all the digital stations including WLOS. I just did another test and it's still like that. I'm guessing that around sunset these will start to drop. So my antenna and it's position seem to be ok. When these start to drop if a pre-amp could give me a little boost it would likely help me get them up until around 11:00pm which is when prime-time is over and is all I'd really want.

This does bring up another potential problem. During the day when my readings are so strong will the pre-amp give me TOO MUCH signal?

Also am I an anomaly with the way I get strong signals during the day and less to nothing at night? Am I a freak of nature :)

Again, I do find that to be odd. What might be happening, and help me out here guys, is the signal is bouncing off of the ionosphere straight in during the day but when sunset comes and there is no ionosphere to bounce off of then it disapears. I know its line-of-sight but these signals still bounce. My only suggestion could be more heighth. How far off of the ground is it now? Do you have it at the highest point of your roof? Are there a lot of trees or other obstruction in the path of the stations? Again, there are so many variables at play here that it could be almost anything. Yet, that is very odd that its peaked out during the day and dies at sunset. Believe me, ten feet does make a huge difference; I know from experience.

I am finding there are many quirks in DT-RF transmission, mostly for the better. I have found only one place in five acres in which I receive all local stations. There are two weeks out of the year...based on 2.5 years experience...that I have to make antenna adjustments. Late in the fall (perhaps soon) I must adjust my antenna about 8 degrees to continue to receive maximum signal from all stations, with the antenna still generally pointing toward Pisgah. Otherwise, I have dropouts/pixelization from WLOS. This may change this year with the recent modest power increase.
In the past, preamps frequently would overload from nearby stations, or too many stations in general. It also causes the receiver to overload, and can block individual stations...not necessarily all. I always use a great deal of caution when installing preamp. You'll know quickly enough if the preamp is causing problems...although it may be seasonable or time of day dependent in your case.
Over the years with my experience with UHF transmission, I have never found significant difference between day and night. VHF is a different story...and is more prone to skips and atmospheric bending.
With DT, I receive three stations reliably that are not direct line of sight. All are SLIGHTLY below the horizon/mountain range between us. That reduces my gain at the antenna by a slight amount...from an anticipated 100 percent based on range to 77-88 percent. Again, they are very reliable, although their VHF analog signals are not usable!
My problem station continues to be the VHF-channel 9 from Greenville. I do believe the occasional problem I have with it is co-channel from channel 9 in Charlotte.

A good antenna...such as the Channel Master...goes a long way toward eliminating the multi-path problem...if it exists. Two years ago multipath was the first problem cited by RF experts...but that seems to be proving to be a smaller problem that originally thought. With a rotor you can notch out multipath if it is from a consist-ant source.
New receivers are getting credit for major improvement in eliminating multi-path.

Finally, it may very well be that you are getting a bounce that changes from day to night. That also calls for redirecting your antenna.
I may be wrong--and I do not know anything about your receiving location--but be prepared to search for a better site for your antenna...and not necessarily higher.
Good luck.
jb

I use a big yagi with a CM remote control rotor and a RS pre-amp on a 30 ft telescoping mast. I can pinpoint all the stations with it and get good SS on all the locals as well as most of the Charlotte stations. Maybe the Enoree location provides less obstacles to get a good signal from Mt. Pisgah, as I'm getting a 91-93 reading for WLOS.
On another note WBSC is NOT passing thru the WB HD yet, probably like WLOS the first few days.

I've asked this before, but does anyone have any idea when WASV will broadcast in HD? I still don't understand why they're so far behind WSPA when they are apparently sister stations.

If WSPA's continuing audio problem doesn't say enough, you can write it down that WSPA doesn't care about HD right now. I'm sure CBS forced them into retransmitting the HD signal and that's where they drew the line. I hope once they feel the heat from other local affiliates they'll get it in gear or find themselves with most of their viewers watch WBTV out of Charlotte (which I find myself doing most of the time now). On other topics, anyone notice the audio was in sync on WLOS tonight? The center channel was on and the dialog was clear. Looks like they got it fixed in record time vs. WSPA! I'm able to receive WLOS now, as you might can tell. I'm pretty sure they kicked it back up to pre-hurricane levels, so its all good!

Edit- Anyone got an e-mail address for the general manager at WHNS? I'd like to inquire about HD just to maybe get the ball rolling a little quicker.

Re WHNS...see previous posting regarding both HD progress and the GM's address.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse on this since hopefully one way or the other I'll get it resolved anyway, but I thought since I've posted my levels at different parts of today that I'd finish it off with updated readings into the night.

7:20 pm

WLOS 25
WHNS 65
WYFf 65
WSPA 85

9:20 pm

WLOS 33
WHNS 65
WYFF 60
WSPA 85

10:20 pm

WLOS 18
WHNS 23
WYFF 23
WSPA 77

They've stayed at the 10:20 pm level ever since, and will probably do so until sunrise.

Regarding WSPA I watched CSI:NY Wednesday night and the audio seemed to be fine. I've got CSI and Without a Trace from Thursday night waiting on my HDTivo so I'll have to check it out, but my guess is that it's probably fine as well. For me WSPA is the only Digital station that I can count on. I totally agree that it took them wayyyy too long to resolve their audio problem, but at the same time they were the first one out with HD content and still must be considered the leader in this area. That's why I continue to say that the missing digital and HD transmission on WASV is puzzling.

The power boost from WLOS must not have helped me. But if they're operating at true 720p with no audio problems and can boost their signal a little more then they will be considered right up there with WSPA. I think we'd all agree that it's FOX that we're the most worried about.

I do have one further question. If a pre-amp were to overload WSPA since it is already coming in strong then would it be a matter of simply unplugging the power supply to the pre-amp while I wanted to watch WSPA? I understand that this could get old quick and probably not be a desired solution, but I am just throwing it out there.

In line with the above, I have often wondered if there was a remote control adjustable gain preamp, which you could adjust much as you adjust a rotor. If not, it sounds like a business opportunity.

The unpowered preamp would seriously block most of the signals from the antenna.

Another thought or two. Your WSPA signal is not strong enough to be of concern regarding overload and unless there are other nearby analog signals (that also are amplified by the 7777, that should not be an issue.
If there is a problem, there are other ways, although complicated, to solve it with traps or attenuation prior to the preamp. I suggest you evaluate the results, post them and seek other's advice.

I scanned back through this forum and did not find a description of your setup. I am assuming you set your antenna according to the CEA website. If not, here it is:
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx

This has been the same answer they've given everyone else, but I figured I'd post it anway:

Eric,

We are working diligently to get this done. There has been a backlog on the equipment needed for HD. That has been the delay for us. I truly expect ours to be installed and operable by the end of October. I, too, am anxious to have HD as well. Thanks for your e mail and for watching FOX Carolina.

P.S.I am impressed that you can get our digital signal. We are operating on a lower power right now. That's great you can get it.

Stan Crumley
Vice President
General Manager
FOX Carolina

Jerry Birdwell-
I didn't mean to turn the preamp on and off, but to adjust the gain. Not possible?

The CM 7777 does not have a gain control.

Jerry Birdwell-
I am not being very clear. What I mean is, that if there were a preamp with a gain control, it would be very useful to a lot of people.

The setup I'm using for OTA is a Winegrad Squareshooter coming in through a DirecTV HD Tivo. As far as the antenna orientation I really don't know since my DirecTV installer is the one that put it up. And since it's up on top of the roof on the 2nd story I'm not able to get to it to adjust it. To install a rotor I'd have to have him run the rotor cable from the antenna through my attic, and then somewhow work it down to the all where my receiver is. I'm sure it's doable, but I'm also sure it would cost me a good bit to have it done. Hence why I'm trying the pre-amp first.

I'm not surprised to hear that WHNS is not running a lot of juice right now. I suspect the same with WYFF. If I'm getting strong signals from WSPA and WBSC then I should get at least a decent signal out of WYFF particulary since I'm in Taylors.

According to Winegard's website, the Square Shooter is an amplified antenna. I am not sure of the type antenna...and I have concerns about a combo satellite/OTA antenna. If the attic is accessible, I would start from scratch for OTA and install an antenna on a rotor in the attic and use equipment that local viewers have found to be reliable and have recommended.

Your first problem could be the Squreshooter. Don't get me wrong, that's a good antenna, but not really made for being a long way from the source. It's made for Urban areas. While Taylors could be considered to some as an urban areas, as far as mile specifications it isn't. How many miles are you from the WYFF tower? I'm suprised you're getting WLOS, but that is from the antenna being on the second floor. Try the preamp and see what you get...can't hurt. If you're unsatisfied with that, then get something like a Channel Master 4221 or an Antenna's Direct DB4 (which is what I have). These antenna are a little bigger, but really not that much of an eyesore. The bigger the antenna the better, the more gain the better. It's pretty unidirectional, so you don't have to worry a lot about aiming it. These are more of a "real" antenna, versus the Squareshooter which is kind of a modernized thing. Just some suggestions. If anyone out there has anything to add, feel free to do so. I still consider myself a rookie at this and have a lot to learn.

I have noticed that when watching the WSPA/CBS Digital HD programs, there seems to be quite a lot of Center-Channel sound, such as Dialog, coming through the rear surround channels. I don't notice this on NBC, or on HDNet, or the other HD Satellite signals. My receiver says the audio is 3/2.1 channels, which I assume is Sony's way to describe 5.1

Anyone else noticing this condition?

Thanks,

I may do a little more research on antennas and possibly talk with someone local who specializes in installing these. As far as my satellite/OTA combo that is pretty much settled. The HD I get from DirecTV and NFL Sunday Ticket is one of the main reasons I went the whole HD route. Add to this the fact that I can get WSPA DT reliably covers 90% of my HD needs at the moment. My next important goal is to get the Super Bowl in HD on Fox. That means I've got between now and January to work this out.

If I do find that a different antenna could make a significant difference then I might go that route and add a pre-amp to it. Since I've already got the cables run it should be a simple matter of just replacing the antenna and connecting the exiting cable to that one instead of the Square Shooter.

But since I would be getting a pre-amp anyway I'm leaning toward just adding that and seeing what happens. Then if that doesn't give me what I need looking into a different antenna and just hook the pre-amp to that since again it should just be a simple matter of swapping out the antenna and using the existing line feeds along with the pre-amp that is already there.

I do appreciate all the feedback and hopefully others who will read this forum in the future with similar predicaments will be able to learn from my experience/mistakes :)

Along the lines of doing some research is there any business in the Greenville area that could be considered an authority in local HD reception?

Okay I've done some research, and I thought I'd post my findings in hopes that it will give you guys some more to go on when making some suggestions.

I was able to pinpoint my location at antennaweb.org, and I found that WSPA is 16 miles away and slightly north-east at 7 degrees which just happens to be where my antenna is pointed. That would explain the great reception for WSPA. Next is WASV which is 24.3 miles, and at 330 degree just slightly off to the north-west. WLOS is 328 degrees and almost exactly in the same direction as WASV but 42.6 miles away, and just a little further off to the north-west is WHNS at 27.5 miles and 314 degree. WYFF is 311 degrees and 21.2 miles away.

Everything seems to fall in place. My antenna is pointed at WSPA and has a 62 degree coverage area so I should pull in these other stations allbeit not as strong since I'm not pointed directly at them and they are further away which strongly explains the problem with WLOS. The only wrinkle is that WBSC is 180 degrees and 19.2 miles away. This is outside of my antenna's supposed coverage range, but I get it just fine. I thought the SquareShooter was directional so pulling in something that is completely opposite of where I'm aimed is puzzling. The only thing is that I read that the Squareshooter was specifically designed to pull in "reflected" signals due to being among buildings in urban areas. Maybe I'm getting the bounce of WBSC?

It's possible that I could adjust my antenna just slightly toward the west at maybe around 335 degrees and put on the pre-amp and get all of these just fine. Jerry mentioned that the Squareshooter is an amplified antenna, but what I found is that one model is amplified and the other isn't. Mine appears to be the non-amplified since from the pictures it looks like the non is the one designed to work with alongside satellite antennas. I can't be 100% sure though so I emailed my installer. If it is the non then it is definitely begging for a pre-amp.

The conventional wisdom would no doubt be to scrap the Squareshooter and go with something more designed to pull in distant signals from all directions. My hesitation is 1. Cost: since I would to buy a whole new antenna, 2. Size: since the squareshooter is nice and small and on the back of my home cannot be seen from the front, and 3. Quality: since the Squareshooter does appear to be a state-of-the-art when it comes to reducing noise and ghosting. So if I can just pull in more signal I wouldn't mind keeping it.

It appears that after all of this research and this long-winded post I'm basically back to where I've been which is to try a pre-amp first, and then try a bigger antenna along with the pre-amp.

Anymore thoughts and suggestions are definitely appreciated, and in particular if my findings enlighten any of you further as to my predicament.

Thanks for the info, and it basically tells me what I thought it would. The Squareshooter seems to be the problem. The pre-amp may help you a little, but don't expect miracles. When it comes down to it, you need an antenna designed for more distance, like a CM 4221 or a DB4. With the ability to pull in that many stations now, I doubt you'll need a DB8 or 4228. You can still mount it behind the house and it wouldn't be seen. Look at mgtr, he mounted his 4228 in his attic and claims great performance. I've read stories of people basically laying a DB4 in the attic and getting excellent results (of course, they weren't out in the country). You don't need a monstrosity of an antenna to get good decent results, you just have to get one designed for your needs, and the Squareshooter is made for urban areas, plus its directional. In this area, directional doesn't cut it unless you have a rotor, and I doubt that would help a lot. Give the preamp a shot and let us know.

walterc:
For more information regarding antennas here is a good site:
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/comparing.html
I also suggest you monitor the AVS forum for Charlotte and for Atlanta--among others. Both of these have very qualified station engineers...who have no ax to grind with respect to name brand product...that tend to jump in from time to time to correct or offer advice. I find most of the exchanges on both this other forums offer better local advice than sales-oriented and motivated installers...mainly because of the evolving technology for DT and HD. Finally, I would review this website from start to finish for local advice.

Thanks for that link Jerry, it was an excellent read. I also read some things on the Warren Electronics Site which seemed to say the very same things. Interestingly enough I read on the Warren site that the SquareShooter is a very good antenna, but because it is directional you need a rotor if your stations are spread out.

It would seem that replacing the SquareShooter with a CM 4221 and a 7777 pre-amp, would be a better solution then hooking the pre-amp to the SquareShooter and putting a rotor on it. After seeing the specs and coverage area for the SquareShooter on the Warren site I've decided that it probably isn't going to be enough to just put a pre-amp on it. The gain isn't so much the problem as is it being directional. I would bet that if it did have a rotor and pre-amp that it would probably do as well as any setup, but my guess is that this would cost more than going with the other solution, and it could get old having to adjust the rotor everytime you need to switch.

By the way is it odd that I can pull in the digital stations from the Asheville PBS station so well all the time but do so poorly on WLOS?

It also seem that pointing the antenna in the right direction is important. In my earlier post I outlined all of the various settings for the stations with respect to their direction and mileage from me. Given these I'm wondering if a proper setting would be at about 330 degrees? Any thoughts on that?

Thanks for all of the input!

Just ordered the CM 4221 and the CM 7775 Pre-Amp. Install appointment is Friday afternoon so I'll post the results later that night.

In the event you did not see it, here are the specs on the CM 4221. I would start installation by aiming at the antenna toward the problem station, then see if the side lobes handle the others...making slight adjustments if necessary.
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4221.html
As for receiving UNC-HD and not WLOS...remember that Channel 25 is operating at full authorized power...WLOS (Channel 56) is at greatly reduced power even though it increased it somewhat a couple of months ago. Also, WLOS-DT is a very directional signal, aiming most power toward the east in a D-shaped pattern. (By the way, I paid less than $30 for my CM Antenna.)

walterc
I have this same set up, except that I have a rotor. On days with no wind and good weather I can pick up all stations without drop outs. When it is windy/rainy I have to fine tune to keep from having drop outs. Even though this 4221 isn't very directional to have steady signals in all weather conditions I would highly recommend a rotor.

Jerry B--

Do you know of any good antenna installers in the Asheville area?

rchalk,

I noticed you are located in Westminster. I'm in Central and I think that would put you farther away from most towers than me. Are you able to get all locals or do you have any problems? If you can get everything, especially WLOS I'd love to know what equipment you are using.

Thanks

gjlowe:
Unfortunately, no. I will check some sources and post if I can uncover any with DT experience.

Ha! I thought I had lost the new WLOS-HDTV feed after the storms because before it had been coming in on 13-3. Now it is the HD feed on 13-1, and MNF looked spectacular when it was working. While I had a signal in the 80's the entire time, I saw continual pixellation and drop outs. Is this due to the station, the signal, my DISH 811 receiver, or something else?

Oh, and also, WHNS just started to come in today, and while also somewhat pixellated, it is nice to know I can get the WHNS digital signal now! The only big one left to get is WASV for Enterprise! I get a weak signal from them.

Originally posted by gjlowe
Oh, and also, WHNS just started to come in today, and while also somewhat pixellated, it is nice to know I can get the WHNS digital signal now! The only big one left to get is WASV for Enterprise! I get a weak signal from them.

I've been looking forward to seeing Enterprise in HD, but although WASV comes in great there's no telling when they'll actually start broadcasting in HD. Since WBSC looks to go with HD soon and the WB is UPN's main competition maybe that will put some pressure on them.

Originally posted by Apps1
walterc
I have this same set up, except that I have a rotor. On days with no wind and good weather I can pick up all stations without drop outs. When it is windy/rainy I have to fine tune to keep from having drop outs. Even though this 4221 isn't very directional to have steady signals in all weather conditions I would highly recommend a rotor.

A rotor sounds nice, but I may have to wait on it. I feel pretty confident that with this new setup I should get everything but WLOS spot on. And if WLOS boosts their power then I should be ok with them. I've said it before, but I've got a suspicion that neither WHNS or WYFF is running at the same power strength as WSPA and when they do turn the power up we all should get them much better.

Originally posted by walterc
A rotor sounds nice, but I may have to wait on it. I feel pretty confident that with this new setup I should get everything but WLOS spot on. And if WLOS boosts their power then I should be ok with them. I've said it before, but I've got a suspicion that neither WHNS or WYFF is running at the same power strength as WSPA and when they do turn the power up we all should get them much better.


WYFF plans to go to full power in January.

Did anyone else have problems with WSPA last night?

Signal fluctuated a lot, and the good old sound sync issue, after about 30 seconds I switched over to WBTV and had no problems at all.

Walterc

Your suspicions are correct, WSPA is the strongest signal in this area, and they are running at full power. WYFF plans to go full in January. Actually, WHNS is probably the weakest, I hear, but I'm getting them very strongly. My weakest station is WBSC, followed by WLOS. Check out this: http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp This site is antennaweb.org on steroids. It doesn't give you antenna pointers, but it tells you almost everything about every digital station around in depth. You just have to find your lat and long, which it tells you how to find that.

That is funny...the only digital signals I can't lock in are WSPA, WASV, and WBSC. I would like to be able to get WASV, especially when they DO go to HD. Enterprise is a great spin-off, and it would look fantastic in HD!

gjlowe (and all)
Re WLOS signal
Weather conditions during the past 24 hours have caused some erratic reception problems, for both WLOS-DT and others. Rain fade can cause problems, espeically when heavy.
WSPA reception dropped out a couple of times from 9-10 p.m., but our power became erratic around 9:50 and I decided to turn off all my HD equipment although it is on UPS.

Is it me or does WLOS have a much better upscaled picture than WYFF or WSPA? I notice it especially when watching the news. The picture from WLOS seems much clearer with more detail. Here are some reasons why it might be - I wanted to get other people's opinion as to which they thought it was:
1. WLOS is just using better graphics so it makes the whole picture seem sharper (While I think WYFF and WSPA need to improve their graphics, I think it is more than this).
2. WLOS has better upscaling equipment which results it a better overall picture quality.
3. 720p is resulting in better picture quality than the 1080i that WYFF and WSPA broadcast in.

I would normally also consider bitrate and multicasting, but WYFF and WSPA do not multicast and WLOS does, so I don't think you can argue that WLOS is sending a higher bit rate (unless you worked in the industry and had firm, hard facts to prove it).

Please, I'm looking for some serious responses here (I hesitate in even posting the 720p vs 1080i comparison because it starts so many battles). It is just something that I've noticed and wanted to know if other people have noticed it too. Let me know what you think.

I can add that I have a friend that works at WLOS, and he tells me that the engineers at WLOS are very good and know their stuff, so perhaps some of it has to do with the actual engineers that work on the equipment. I do think that WLOS uses sharp graphics. My friend also told me that they have relatively new chyron (graphics) machines, so that COULD be another factor.

I have noticed the quality of the picture on the WLOS news also. I have only had an OTA tuner for a week now, so I had only seen WYFF's offerings on Charter. I do not think that it is just the graphics, because what I noticed at first was a scar on one of the newscasters.

It has to do with the encoders that the stations use. There is one in particular (sorry Richard) that blurs the 480 image. We have two stations here in my market that use that particular encoder and both blur badly on the upconvert. The other stations that do not use that encoder have very clear upconverts. I feel pretty sure WLOS isn't using the encoder I am referring to since they are not using that companies transmitter and that encoder was usually sent with that transmitter in the early days.

In addition to the prior comment, I have another. After years in the business, I have visited WLOS on several occasions and can tell you that their video quality in the control room is outstanding.
I will add that WLOS has one of the best technical-quality oriented chief engineers in the business...and I have experience with a number of major markets.

This forum is really lucky to have FOXENG monitor and offer comments and suggestions from time to time.

Originally posted by nlowhor
rchalk,

I noticed you are located in Westminster. I'm in Central and I think that would put you farther away from most towers than me. Are you able to get all locals or do you have any problems? If you can get everything, especially WLOS I'd love to know what equipment you are using.

Thanks

I have a Channel-Master CM4228 antenna, which has 8 "bow tie" elements on a flat reflector screen. It is mounted about 12 feet above my roof, which is two stories above ground. Ground elevation is about 700 Ft. at this location.

I have a Channel-Master 7777 preamp located just below the antenna, and about 40 Ft. of RG-6 coax to the room. There I have a Philips/Magnavox RF Distribution amplifier with 4 outputs ($30 al Lowes, if I recall).

The 4 outputs feed a DirecTV HD-Tivo, the internal tuner on a 2-year-old RCA HDTV, and a Samsung SIR-T165 HDTV Tuner, and one spare.

I get signal strengths in the 70's on WYFF, WLOS, WSPA, UNC-TV, and in the 50's on SC-ETV (this one surprises me, since it is on Channel 9, and the antenna is a UHF-Only design). WASV is in the 30's and 40's, but usually watchable.

I do have a rotor, and can peak many of these to slightly higher levels, but I can achieve these numbers without moving the antenna.

I don't know about WBSC, since I have not really tried, since they do not yet have any HD content.

I think I am very lucky with these results, perhaps just a fortunate location. Hope this is useful...

Refererence the above, I also have a 4228, no preamp, attic mounted, no rotor. I get phenomenal results (see post about 10 days ago in this forum with details). For about $60 all in, I have fabulous OTA with no dropouts in normal weather, no pixelation, no problems. And, no complaints. 4228 is worth its weight in gold, in my view. (I guess that is sort of a pun).

Originally posted by gjlowe
That is funny...the only digital signals I can't lock in are WSPA, WASV, and WBSC. Since I get a waiver for WSPA, I don't worry too much about the CBS stuff, but I would like to be able to get WASV, especially when they DO go to HD. Enterprise is a great spin-off, and it would look fantastic in HD!

I find it odd that I can pull in WBSC so well when it is in the opposite direction of where my directional antenna is pointed. But if you can pull in WLOS so well then I assume that you are able to pull in the WBSC signal on 13-3 too so you're really not missing anything there, correct?

sic0048 and others:

Here is Jim Carrier's response to comments on the WLOS video quality:

<<Sinclair spent several months evaluating upconverters from all of the "name brand" vendors. I believe we made the correct choice. WLOS is feeding a very clean digital signal into the system. This along with the excellent noise reduction in the upconverter is responsible for the quality of our SD product.

Jim>>

I got something on 13-3 for about a week...and I thought it was the WLOS-HD feed (didn't pay that close attention because it wasn't there for long). So, no, I do not see any WBSC digital signal.

WBSC-DT is simulcast on 13-2. It has been that way ever since WLOS put up their digital signal.

My mistake...I get 13-2 just fine...and that IS WBSC. Sorry for the confusion, I mix that and WASV up all the time...

You should get WASV on 45-1.

To clarify, WBSC is available digitally on two stations. An SD simulcast on 13-2 from WLOS, and on 40-1 out of Boiling Springs (I believe). The 40-1 (ch. 14) will the in HD soon, since its already at 720p now, no HD content being fed yet. Its better quality than the 13-2 simulcast. If you can pick it up (its a very weak station), then watch 40-1 instead. For antenna adjustment, its nearly 180 deg opposite from WLOS's transmitter.

I cannot pick up 40-1 or 62-1 (WASV), which is broadcast on channel 45 I believe...

Originally posted by gjlowe
I cannot pick up 40-1 or 62-1 (WASV), which is broadcast on channel 45 I believe...

Try 14-1 for channel 40 and 45-1 for channel 62. I think 14-1 broadcasts from Simpsonville.

I definitely do not get 45-1. I will try 14-1 tonight when I get home. Thanks for the tip!

I'm new to this forum, but I've certainly enjoyed all the good info on here. I'm a Charter subscriber and really wish they would up their content. The picture quality is good, but only 6 channels? Well, seven with the part-time Braves channel. I sure hope to see Fox, ABC and CBS soon.

Originally posted by tommyp007
I sure hope to see Fox, ABC and CBS soon.
If your TV has a QAM tuner, you can get WSPA's digital channel by tuning to C103.2.

My Hughes HTL-HD obviously does not have QAM tuner, and I wanted to maybe "play around" with getting some "extra" HD channels from Charter (even though I don't subscribe to their HD service). Anyone know of a cheap set-top QAM tuner? I know this might be considered "dark," but I figured I'd ask.

Originally posted by dashaund
To clarify, WBSC is available digitally on two stations. An SD simulcast on 13-2 from WLOS, and on 40-1 out of Boiling Springs (I believe). The 40-1 (ch. 14) will the in HD soon, since its already at 720p now, no HD content being fed yet. Its better quality than the 13-2 simulcast. If you can pick it up (its a very weak station), then watch 40-1 instead. For antenna adjustment, its nearly 180 deg opposite from WLOS's transmitter.

My post saying it was on 13-3 was wrong and as has been correctly stated it is on 13-2. I'm surprised though that they both (40-1 & 13-2) aren't the same. It shouldn't be that difficult to mirror the station's output at the same high quality, but I know very little when it comes to HD technology.

walterc

Its the same content being transmitted on both transmitters. The 40-1 is in 720p and 13-2 is in 480i. The difference is that 40-1 right now is an SD upconvert, and the 720p allows for more bandwidth and a much cleaner picture. They're not showing any HD content just yet, but they're set up for it. The SD upconvert does make a huge difference in picture quality, however.

I have recently purchased an HDTV with the built-in HD tuner. I have an outside antenna mounted on the chimney of my two story house. I am able to pick up all the stations that I believe that I should except one, WASV. I have some problems with WSPA freezing and pixelating. But, the others seem to be OK. WYFF is the strongest, even WLOS is coming in OK. I thought about rotating my antenna slightly, to see if this helps with WSPA's reception. Does anyone have any advice for me? I would like to improve WSPA and also be able to pick up WASV. I have used the info from antennaweb to get this for. I live in Fountain Inn, SC. Two things I failed to mention are that I do not have an antenna rotor and I have a Channel Master amplifier on my coax from the antenna.

Get a rotor,that way you can maximize your reception for each station. I have a channel master rotor with a remote control that lets you preset each station so you can just enter the station number and go right to that position. The remote is compatible with pioneer cable box codes ,so i can use my universal remote to control it along with my HDTV/w built in HD tuner and Directv and my DVD player and my Sony stereo. Lots better than a table full of remotes.

loggerhead-
A rotor may be the thing for you, but you might want to experiment on a compromise single position. I have found that in my location, and get all the stations with good PQ. Much simpler, if you can make it work.

I thought I'd give you guys an update on my situation. I ordered the
CM 4221 antenna and the CM 7775 Pre-amp and these were scheduled to be installed today. However my installer got stalled on the appointment before me so it looks like Monday early evening.

I tried pushing him to come as late as possible because I get strong signals until about sundown. Today the difference was very pronounced. Even as late as 6pm I was getting upper 80's on WYFF, WLOS, and WHNS, but by 7:15pm I was around 20 for WYFF and WHNS, and barely above 11 on WLOS. He's coming at 5:00pm, but I've got him doing something else until about 6:00pm so hopefully he'll finish up around 7:00pm or a little after so I'll be able to tell if the new setup is making a difference.

Re WHNS HD progress:
Based on usually reliable information WHNS has received its new digital MW for HD upgrade...but other needed equipment on order has yet to arrive.
This seems to be an indication that there is a determination to finish the project soon.

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
Re WHNS HD progress:
Based on usually reliable information WHNS has received its new digital MW for HD upgrade...but other needed equipment on order has yet to arrive.
This seems to be an indication that there is a determination to finish the project soon.


It looks like it's going to be close then for them to make the World Series. I'm just hoping they have it up for Thanksgiving so we can watch Football in HD. At the worst I hope they have it ready for the NFL playoffs. NFL Sunday Ticket doesn't cover these so if WHNS isn't in HD then it's back to their crappy signal from DirecTV. Sort of off topic, but I do wonder why the standard signal on DirecTV locals for WSPA and WYFF is pretty good while WLOS and WHNS is really bad? Why would two be more compressed than the other two? Hopefully my OTA situation will be improved after Monday, and I won't have to worry about it.

Hello everyone - this will be my first post in this HDTV Greenville forum. I live in Greenville, SC and have been enjoying OTA HDTV for a couple of years. I started out w/ a cheap indoor $25 RCA antenna, and that did fine at getting a couple of HD channels... but after moving into a house in the Woodruff road area, I needed something better, the RCA could only get 1 channel, CBS. So I installed a CM 3020 antenna and a recommended CM pre-amp, and now I can get good reception.

I haven't tweaked the antenna direction a whole lot until tonight -- I wanted to watch the 2-hour re-airing of the 1st 2 episodes of LOST on ABC tonight. I had not been able to get ABC to come in before, but after tweaking for a while, I now get NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX and PBS in HD along w/ a few other regular DTV channels.

Anyways, this is in regard to walterc's post about WLOS. I haven't seen such clear, non-motion-blocky HD except on CBS before tonight... wow. It looked awesome. What doesn't -- and has never -- looked awesome is PBS. Tons of crappy motion-blockiness on every pan & every dissolve. Blah. And almost the same for NBC -- the Olympics got pretty blocky at times.

But back to ABC tonight on the LOST show -- even on very fast pans it looked just like film. I didn't see a single problem with that picture... stunning.

Hello Pixelman, welcome aboard. I'm kind of new myself.

I have no doubt that the picture quality from WLOS-DT is very good. Hopefully I'll be enjoying it myself just in time for Monday Night Football. If you've read my posts then you know I'm changing my OTA setup this coming Monday.

I did want to mention that when I shared that I received PBS very well as opposed to WLOS I meant the strength of signal and not the quality of the broadcast. I never actually sit down and watch a show on PBS, but when I am checking signal strength I will switch to it just for comparison sakes.

So before tweaking your antenna you got everything but WLOS? Did you use the compass orientation from antennaweb.org to set it or just played around with it until it came in? I'm planning to get my installer to aim the CM 4221 right at WLOS since it is my weakest station in hopes that it will come in, and I'll still get everything else.

Re: "Local to Local" from Satellite

Too often the satellite local service does not stand up to comparisons with off air and certainly not to the quality in the studio. A couple of weak links contribute to this...first (for this area) the satellite providers pickup the signal from off air and it is not always of best quality. DirecTV picks up the WLOS signal in SC. Secondly, both major providers are cutting the band width to the limit in order to squeeze out more channels.
But...it is not just the local stations...too many of the channels look just terrible. And the pay movie channels are the pits, too often.
(And don't bother to try to call to complain!)

Originally posted by walterc

So before tweaking your antenna you got everything but WLOS? Did you use the compass orientation from antennaweb.org to set it or just played around with it until it came in?[/B]

Before tweaking, I didn't get WLOS or FOX. It used to be that I could only get NBC or CBS, but not both. It seems to be getting better as the days go by.

I used the compass from antennaweb as a guide, and also experimented a lot, with my wife giving me feedback over the radio as i turned it. I'm using the same antenna to feed my regular TV in another room, and everything is coming in well there also, except for CBS, which has some major ghosting, and ABC is slightly grainy.

I don't have a way of checking signal strength -- I'm just using the internal tuner on my Mits. So my signal meter is: the channel stays on perfect, or it may glitch every once in a while, or it's not there at all. :)

Anyways, this is in regard to walterc's post about WLOS. I haven't seen such clear, non-motion-blocky HD except on CBS before tonight... wow. It looked awesome. What doesn't -- and has never -- looked awesome is PBS. Tons of crappy motion-blockiness on every pan & every dissolve. Blah. And almost the same for NBC -- the Olympics got pretty blocky at times.

Doesn't ABC broadcast in 720P? Some people say that 720P generally handles motion better. Also about PBS, I believe they usually split their bandwidth up by broadcasting several subchannels at the same time. This is probably why their HD quality suffers so much.

Yes, ABC is in 720p, along with ESPN and now FOX. It is said that it handles motion better, and I find that to be true. I have heard some find flaws in FOX's HDTV so far, but I think they've been fixed. I can't speak for myself since WHNS doesn't have HD installed yet. We'll have to wait and see. And, I agree that PBS's broadcast does lack performance. A lot of artifacts in their broadcasts. It must be due to the lack of bandwidth with their subchannels...good observation. Off topic, I was cleaning out one of my old storage cabinets and found an old UHF bowtie antenna I had put away, you know, the cheapos you get with new TVs and such that you usually toss. I hooked it up to my digital OTA receiver and was stunned at its performance, performing better than a $40 amplified VHF/UHF set top antenna I had bought. Its very touchy...you have to have it at a perfect angle to get reception, but once you do it locks in at a VERY strong signal. I can get every DTV channel except WLOS, and I'm considered in a rural area! I might make a makeshift base to test it out. Just thought I'd share my observation on how vintage technology is sometimes better than some of the expensive stuff on the market today. Kind of depressing isn't it?

I assume your comments on PBS are regarding SCETV's Channel 9. Over a year ago SCETV promised to involve its viewers in tests of 720P but that never happened and their picture quality with motion artifacts is below that of UNCTV's Channel 25. (And I find the co-channel problems on VHF very objectionable.) It is nice to have SCETV's 24 hour HD schedule but I would vote for the 720p if it improved the picture. On the otherhand, UNCTV cuts back to only two channels when it commences HD at 8 p.m.

Hi. im new to this thread. I live in spartanburg and would like to get WHNS-DT for the world series. I have no clue what equipemnt to buy. I dont want to get a huge antenna. Can you guys reccomend what i should get to get this channel. And i would like to buy it from circuit city because i have a 400$ gift card. Thx.

First off, welcome to the forum thespy007! The more input from local viewers, the better. Okay, so I assume you have an HDTV already. After that, are you looking to receive DirecTV/DISH at all? If DirecTV, I have a Hughes HTL-HD receiver that I would recommend highly. If just OTA, then look at the Motorola or LG receiver. Samsung makes a lot of these. Personally, I don't like Samsung equipment. I know many on here use them and love them, but I have found many faults, especially with OTA reception when the signal is borderline. The LG box has the same chipset that my Hughes uses, and it works G-R-E-A-T! I'm not sure if the Motorola does or not. As far as antennas, that's something you might be working on with trial and error, I'm sorry to say. It depends on your location. Do you live in an apartment or your own home? What elevation? Any trees/buildings/etc in the way? The Silver Sensor is pretty good. Terk has been known to make some pretty crappy products, not even bringing into account that they are ridiculously overpriced. On paper the TV55 is supposed to whip every other antenna up onside and down the other, but I can do better with my $2 UHF bowtie (see previous post). I'm trying to stay within your CC Gift Card here. If all you want is WHNS, then just try a few antennas and see what you get. After that, you'll have to move on to some more sophistcated stuff. My personal favorite for this area is the 4-Bay UHF bowtie design. The Antenna's Direct (antennasdirect.com) DB4 is what I use. That is about $70 w/shipping plus mounting equipment and cable. Channel Master makes the 3021/4221. You can order those from a number of places. It may seem overwhelming at first for such a short question. It's a trial and error process...that's why we're all here! And, hey, my $2 bowtie might be all you need, but I don't think you'd be happy with that for a long term solution. Others PLEASE post your opinions! I don't know everything, never have, and don't claim to. If you own a Samsung receiver and a Terk TV55 and are seeing great results, let me know! :)

Thx for the reply dashaund. My hdtv has the ota hdtv tuner built in. I live in a 2 story house, there are some tall tress behind my house but shouldent be that much of a problem. Also would i have to buy a pre-amp for the antenna or is that just an option? I remember seeing the Terk antennas at CC so ill go check that out. Thx.

thespy007, aka James Bond-
I live in Inman, roughly in the same line of sight as you for all the staions. I have had great success with the CM 4228 mounted upside down in my attic. No preamp, no rotor., Very simple. All in, mast and all, about $60 at Harvey Electronics on Asheville Highway. Good luck!

Everyone trashes Terk, but I have a TV38, live in Candler in a one story house, and I get everything now except for WSPA and WASV (and the WBSC 40-1 channel). I have a hard time understanding how one company can be that better than another when antennas simply seem to be different metal elements attached to each other. Can someone help explain this?

gjlowe

That is a mystery that its understanding evades me. I can't tell you why some antennas work better that others when the concept remains the same. An antenna's sole purpose is receiving radio waves out of the air. I trash Terk because a lot of their products stink and they charge way too much. Many of their antennas have the same design as others and they charge twice as much or more, and their performance is sometimes half as good. I'm sorry, I've had bad experiences with their products, as many other people have had (just walk in to BB or CC and see how many open box returns they have on sale), and won't buy from them again. Anyway, this thread isn't for product reviews but for local reception. Antennas vary in design and size, bigger is usually better. Certain designs work better in certain situations. The actual dimensions of the pieces used are calculated to match the wavelength of the signal it is intended to receive (the reason why we have antennas made for VHF or UHF...some are made to receive both). I'm glad your antenna works for you, that's all that really matters. I was just making a buying suggestions out of experience, but I also told him to try different antennas to see what might work best. For me, I haven't found a Terk to work at all. I hooked a pair of VHF rabbit ears up to my receiver and it worked better than the TV55 I tried out. What does that tell you?

Originally posted by walterc
I've been looking forward to seeing Enterprise in HD, but although WASV comes in great there's no telling when they'll actually start broadcasting in HD....which is odd, since their website (http://www.wasv.com/) has an "HDTV" link under 'Inside Super 62', and appropriately enough, none of the listings under its digital channels have the usual DecisionMark HD indicator. Has anyone pestered them to see what plans they have for broadcasting in HD, if any?

On a lark, I borrowed a Channel Master 3010 StealthTenna from a friend of mine. I was just curious what I could pick up from my house in Simpsonville, and even though I haven't gone to the trouble of doing a proper installation, at least not yet, I just left it on my first-story living room floor, plugged the antenna into my TV (which has an ATSC tuner built in), and was surprised by how much I was able to pick up. WYFF and WSPA both come in the 70s, WLOS (which I wasn't expecting to get at all) in the mid-to-high 50s, ETV, WHNS, WASV, and WBSC, along with a couple other random channels. I tried out a Channel Master 3042 amp, which gave the percentages a healthy boost (particularly for WLOS, which leapt up from 56% to 83%), but I couldn't pick up any additional channels, at least not from the quick, scattered testing I did at different orientations. In my neck of the woods, I don't think there's really anything else to pick up.

By the way, I followed up with Charter about the availability of the Moxi DVRs in the Greenville area, and they gave me a mid-October estimate. That's something to look forward to, although their limited HD offerings don't leave much to timeshift. Although the quantity isn't quite up to what I'd like, I've been mostly happy with the quality. I guess the signal coming into my house could use a little beefing up, though -- it's not a pervasive problem, but it seems like almost every night, there's a 5-15 minute chunk that's riddled with dropouts. This is an extreme example, but one Sunday evening, I got bored enough to count audio dropouts/macroblocking, and in the space of 60 seconds, there were 13 dropouts. Other than that, I'll just get some minor periodic pixelation or a barely-noticeable audio dropout. Strange how it's mostly reliable, but when I have problems, it seems heavily concentrated. I guess when I schedule the Moxi delivery, I'll kill two birds and have someone check out the signal.

I'm amazed! I live in Simpsonville, and I getting Monday Night Football in HD over the air. I'm using a Radio Shack18-880 set top antenna. The signal has gone from 57-77% all night. This is from my basement! That is the best it has ever been. I get break=up every now and then. I think when cars pass by. Anyway, I thought I would share that with all of you.

John B.

I thought I’d give you guys an update to my story. I had my newly bought CM 7775 Pre-Amp, and CM 4221 antenna laid out and ready for the installer. When he arrived he told me that he had just been in a home in Thornblade yesterday, and had installed a Pre-amp for a customer who had the exact same SquareShooter I did. He said it made a lot of difference and he was able to get all of the off-air stations in this area. He suggested that we first try hooking up the Pre-amp to my antenna to see what would happen. I was skeptical, but I figured I had nothing to lose.

So he hooks it up, and I begin doing signal strength tests. I knew I couldn’t tell too much at that moment since I get everything including WLOS up until around 7:20pm. What I did notice though was that before the Pre-Amp I was getting low 70’s for WASV and WBSC and after the install I was getting 90 for WASV and 88 for WBSC. Since I was already getting upper 80’s for WHNS, WLOS, and WYFF along with my usual 91 for WSPA I knew the true test would come later. So I then had him put in an extra line with the understanding that if I saw drop-off at the usual time then we’d go with the Channel Master. Well 7:40pm comes along and WLOS is humming right along at 85 with WYFF and WHNS staying at a steady 89 to 90. Usually by this time of night WLOS is around 11 and WYFF and WHNS is around 30. Needless to say I was surprised and pleased. I monitored the signals throughout the night, and they stayed steady.

What I took away from this and would convey to others is that a quality Pre-Amp can make a lot of difference. To be fair it’s very possible that I could be doing even better had I had the 4221 installed and maybe even been able to pull in some Charlotte stations. But since I can get everything I need I’m satisfied. I was able to watch MNF in HD for the first time and that was great.

So I feel like my setup is complete. Thanks to everyone for their input and suggestions.

P.S. Since the CM 4221 was just $28 shipped, I'll probably hang onto it in case someone I know goes HD. But I'll also suggest to them to get a CM Pre-Amp to go with it.

Sounds great, I'm glad you got it working. I didn't have any hands-on experience to go by when evaluating your experience. And, hey, the pre-amp was cheaper to get installed than the other antenna, right? And, you're right, the quality of the preamp does make a huge difference. I'm considering adding one myself, now, to see if I can pull in some out of area stations. I've got a 4-way distribution amp I just bought from CM and can't recommend it enough. I have zero signal loss with it, which is quite astounding. Keep us posted!

Originally posted by Adam Tyner
Has anyone pestered them to see what plans they have for broadcasting in HD, if any?Answering my own question, I e-mailed WASV this morning and received the following response:We're looking into the cost of the equipment right now. There's no set date on when you'll be able to see the programming in HD.So, that doesn't sound very promising. Maybe if I finagle with things enough, I'll be able to pick up WJZY in Charlotte, although I'm not holding my breath...

That is odd that WASV will be the last station in this area, not counting WGGS, to go HD and their sister station, WSPA, was the first. Ironic isn't it?

Question for you walterc, where did you buy your CM 7775 preamp?

I got my Pre-Amp here http://www.warrenelectronics.com/Antennas/HDTV_preamps.htm

I too am very disappointed with WASV's response. The fact that they're just looking into the equipment tells me they're somewhere between 6 months to a year with 6 months being extremely optimistic.

Re CM 7777 (UHF/VHF) Preamp -- a progress report:
Several weeks ago I posted that I am testing the CM 7777. It did increase the signal level for the local stations, but it also boosted noise and multi-path to the point it must be taken off line occasionally. In the past week, it caused severe problems for WSPA and WYFF, and occasional problems for WLOS. Those problems go away when I remove the CM 7777. A second method of solving the pixelization problem is to switch (using A-B switch) from the CM antenna to the in-the-attic RS all-band antenna on a rotor. This requires the use of the rotor when switching among some stations. As noted before, this is a seasonal problem...lasting some 2 to 3 weeks, and will stabilize soon and result in a slight adjustment in the CM antenna orientation.
I was fortunate in being able to make earlier observations using a Spectrum Analyzer...a much more reliable means of judging potential problems. Unfortunately, the SA is not often available to me.

Originally posted by dashaund
That is odd that WASV will be the last station in this area, not counting WGGS, to go HD and their sister station, WSPA, was the first. Ironic isn't it?


It's not Odd when you look at it from the company's point of view...

CBS is a big money-maker, and was the first network to make a major commitment to HD television. WSPA made the conversion to take advantage of the CBS resources, and with the encouragement of CBS to support the network's commitment.

UPN, on the other hand, is not rated as highly by a long shot, and therefore does not make as much money. Also, the UPN commitment to HD is minimal at the moment. The only show I see mentioned is Enterprise, although there may be others...

The cost to the station to provide full-power DTV is not a function of the revenue the station generates - CBS and UPN would cost Media General roughly the same money, but the stations' incomes are radically different, so it is not surprising that WSPA went early, but that WASV will be among the last.

Remember, Media General has a large number of stations in other markets, and has had to allocate money to all of them. There was not an increase in revenue to support the DTV conversion, so they had to set priorities.

Jerry,

What type of preamp system have you been using (if any)? Just curious. I would have thought you were already using the CM7777, but maybe you have another model/brand. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the different models/brands available that you have used.

Originally posted by rchalk
Also, the UPN commitment to HD is minimal at the moment. The only show I see mentioned is Enterprise, although there may be others...Enterprise, Veronica Mars, and Kevin Hill are in HD now, and One on One, Half and Half, Girlfriends, and Second Time Around will start airing in HD next month.

I understand the financial reasons why WASV isn't currently broadcasting in HD, but strictly from the perspective of a viewer, it's a bit of a disappointment. I'm only watching two first-run series at the moment, Lost and Veronica Mars, and it'd be nice to be able to watch both in HD.

Originally posted by Adam Tyner
Enterprise, Veronica Mars, and Kevin Hill are in HD now, and One on One, Half and Half, Girlfriends, and Second Time Around will start airing in HD next month.

I understand the financial reasons why WASV isn't currently broadcasting in HD, but strictly from the perspective of a viewer, it's a bit of a disappointment. I'm only watching two first-run series at the moment, Lost and Veronica Mars, and it'd be nice to be able to watch both in HD.

The fact that UPN is filming some of their new shows such as Veronica Mars & Kevin Hill in HD and their current show Enterprise in HD as well gives us some hope that the network has some committment to HD.

I really don't buy into the cost effective argument as being a reasonable excuse for WASV to drag their heels. If your network is going HD with these shows then as an affiliate you should do the upgrade and consider the cost part of doing business and providing a quality product offering.

I would really like to email WASV as well. What email address did you use to contact them?

upn62@wasv.com

That's the address listed on their website (http://wasv.com/).

Originally posted by walterc
I really don't buy into the cost effective argument as being a reasonable excuse for WASV to drag their heels.

Then I would recommend you donate the $250,000 it would cost to do it since cost is no reason to be dragging feet.

Originally posted by foxeng
Then I would recommend you donate the $250,000 it would cost to do it since cost is no reason to be dragging feet.

I've got a better idea. Why don't we tell the FCC to donate it. After all they apparently don't buy into the whole cost thing either since they've mandated that it be done.

Actually I don't believe that the FCC has mandated that stations broadcast in HD, only that they start broadcasting in digital format. I am able to pick up the DTV broadcast of WASV, so they are in compliance with the FCC regs. HD content is a whole other story which I would like to see WASV address, but can understand the financial issues that may prevent them from doing it at this time.

I stand corrected on that point. But it should also be pointed out that the same arguments being made for why WASV isn't going HD could also be made for WBSC. Sure the owners made sure that WLOS went HD first, but they're not dragging their heels with WBSC just because it doesn't make as much money. They've made sure that they've done it right with ABC content, and next they're going to move to HD on their WB affiliate. That seems to be a model way to handle things.

Another thing is that WASV responded that they're looking into the cost of the equipment. That is odd when the same onwers purchased the equipment for WSPA and should know exactly what is needed and what it cost. There's always an excuse for anything, but that doesn't make it a good reason.

In fairness, there may be more options in terms of hardware availability now than there were when WSPA first went online. Or, they could know what the cost is and are trying to allocate funds, or are going through the corporate channels to try to acquire that equipment. I'm not sure how much of a media giant the owners of WSPA/WASV are, but the larger the company, the more laborious a process it is to get anything done.

rchalk,

Thanks for the information about your setup. I'm considering getting a CM 4228 to try to pull in at least WLOS and WBSC. I can get pretty much everything else. It would be nice to get UPN out of Charlotte but that's about 100 miles away. Has anyone been able to do that??

How does everyone judge signal strength? I've tried using the signal meter on my Samsung SIR-T360 but it seems completely unreliable. Suggestions??

Thanks!

Ive been looking in here to see if anyone else mentioned this but I didnt see anything, Wlos looks fine on there 13-1 digital channel....no dropouts etc but when they do hdtv (ie lost etc) the picture freezes every few seconds...its unwatchable....as soon as the hd feed is over all is well again. using samsung ts360 ...no problems on hd feeds from cbs or nbc. help....is this not happening to anyone else? Scott

What type of signal strength are you getting from WLOS? Have you tried adjusting your antenna to see if you can get a stronger signal? Maybe picking up an amplifier of some sort?

I watched Lost in HD last night OTA on WLOS and didn't experience any of the problems you mentioned.

nlowhor-
I have an attic mounted CM4228 and have no difficulty getting Asheville stations and CBS in Charlotte with good reliability. I also have a Samsung 360, and the digital signal meter, while cumbersome to use, does seem to work reliably. If you are getting varying strengths, eg, 75, then 45, then 75, then 45, I think that is a sign reflected signals, or multipath, which would give you ghosting in an analog signal. I had that for a while on WYFF, but fixed it by turning the antenna slightly away from WYFF. Problem fixed. I cannot explain why that worked, unless I am now only getting one of the paths, or perhaps one is now dominant. I am guessing, but a fair amount of playing around seems called for with digital signals.
What channel number is UPN in Charlotte, I will try to get it and let you know if I can.

UPN in Charlotte is 46-2. I see you are in Inman. I'm in Central which is about 30 miles west of Greenville. Apparently I am over 40 miles from the CBS tower but have no problem getting that with an indoor antenna. ABC(WLOS) I don't get at all even though I get some readings on my signal strength meter. I get exactly what you are talking about; all my signal readings are sporadic. Interestingly, they are about the same on the channels I get(NBC/CBS/FOX) and the ones I don't(ABC). I'm thinking of pairing a CM 4228 with a CM 7777 in the attic or on the roof.

nlowhor-
That would be an excellent combination. Depending on the exact orientation of the stations you want, you might need a rotor. If you can get away with mounting it in the attic, you can save a bunch of money. My setup is described in my mid-September post at http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=322947&perpage=20&pagenumber=24
I am pleased with the way it worked out for me, but everybody faces a slightly different problem and has a different solution.
The 4228 is terrific for the money, and I understand that the CM preamp is great, but I have no experience with it. Good luck.

Adam...I get pretty excellent signal strenth..and like I say...its only the hd feed that messes up....regular digital works great as soon as they cut the hd feed.....very odd....I am connected through a dvi input...I guess connecting through component will be my next thing I try....this seems to have started after francis came through....13-1 was gone for a few days and when it came back I started noticing this

What's ironic concerning WLOS-DT is that it is my strongest local DT station here in Enoree( probably because of the height at which their tower is located) , and it is also the one station I got a waiver from for D*.:p

Thanks for the info mgtr. How far are you from the various towers? Any luck with the UPN in Charlotte?

Perhaps my inconsistent signal strength readings is also a result of multipath. I'd like to take an antenna outside and see what happens.

I receive Charlotte DT46 using a Yagi cut for 44-55 without amplification. Signal is fairly reliable on a seasonable basis. The range is more than 85 miles, and I am at 3300 feet. They have a very tall tower west of Charlotte.

As for Samsung signal reading, I find it reliable and comparable to most other signal meters. (None predict dropouts and pixelization.)

I took my little Terk indoor antenna outside and connected it to 75 ft of coax and a CM 7777. Now I can get 13-1 and 13-2 perfectly!!!!. Signal strengths still vary but are more consistent. NBC and CBS vary from 45-69%. Perhaps I was getting multipath being inside. Maybe, just maybe I could pull in UPN from Charlotte with a CM 4228 up on the roof? Any thoughts?

I'm getting some annoying lip synch on WSPA right now. I thought someone said they fixed this? I've seen this before, but it's been a while.

Yesterday Charter replaced my HD box with a Moxi box. Every thing is fine except they dont have VOD as they do on the HD box. They are supposed to have VOD in a few weeks. The box upgrade is $7 per month extra. I have Directivo and Dishplayer also but there is no way I would pay $1000 for a HD Recorder box. Of course the Moxi has 80 gig vs 250 for the Directivo. I recorded Leno on ch 784 and it played back in HD as advertised.--- The installer didnt know WLOS has HD now. --- The sound is still out of sync on WLOS HD.:D

Neat. I'll have to pester Charter again to see if they have the Moxi boxes in Greenville. So you can get WLOS through Charter in Asheville? No dice here in Greenville. I haven't had any sync issues with WLOS, although I do seem to recall spotting that briefly on WSPA (which I rarely watch, so that's not going to stand out as much to me).

I'm still trying to decide whether to go to the trouble of putting up a CM 4228 to try to get UPN from Charlotte. I can get everything else in the Greenville area using a small indoor Terk if I take it outside and use a CM 7777. I can get the audio from analog 46 out of Charlotte and something a little better than just total snow for the video. Do you guys think the 4228 might be able to pull in 46-1 and 46-2?? I'd like to get Enterprise in HD.

Thanks

The only local station Charter has is WYFF. I get WLOS-DT over the air with a Directv box. Incidentally I am approved for CBS and NBC and get CBS-HD East and West and NBC-HD East and West. ABC and Fox turned down a waiver, but they are not on satellite anyway. --- Charters other biggest lack is Discovery HD.

nlowhor

That's a toss up. Being that you can get the audio from the analog feed, I'd like to say yes, but that doesn't mean you can get the digital feed. From nchdtv.com, it tells me that their digital feed is on reduced power. Check out 2150.com/broadcast and enter in your long and lat (if you don't know it, it can tell you how to find it). That will tell you the exact distance you are from the transmitter and what power they are transmitting. Compare that to the other stations you are picking up, and you'll have a good idea of if you can get it. With my DB4, I can get WCCB on a good night with it pointed right at their tower. However, WBTV comes in all of the time due to their tower location. I haven't tried WJZY, but I might just for reference. Believe me, putting up that 4228 will be worth your while. From the info you've given us, it sounds like you should be able to throw it up, or even a 4221, and leave in one spot and get all of your locals and never touch it, rather than running your indoor antenna outside all of the time. Give it a shot, and you might surprise yourself.

dashaund

Thanks for the reply. I'm at about 101 miles from the WJZY tower and they seem to be about medium power compared to the other channels I get. I get WLOS at about half the distance but they are only at 15 kW compared to 400 kW from WJZY. Is this power output still correct on WLOS??

How far are you from the Charlotte towers? Let me know if you can get WJZY.

Anyone know a good local source for Channel Master 4228? Shipping can get pricey on it.

Originally posted by nlowhor
I'm still trying to decide whether to go to the trouble of putting up a CM 4228 to try to get UPN from Charlotte. I can get everything else in the Greenville area using a small indoor Terk if I take it outside and use a CM 7777. I can get the audio from analog 46 out of Charlotte and something a little better than just total snow for the video. Do you guys think the 4228 might be able to pull in 46-1 and 46-2?? I'd like to get Enterprise in HD.

Thanks

A 4228 and a CM7777 pre-amp along with a rotor might enable you to pull it in. If there was any hope in WASV going HD by summer you could just wait until then and watch the re-runs in HD, but I'll be surprised if they are even ready for next fall.

I emailed them and let them know how disappointed I was that I would not be able to watch their best shows the way they were intended to be seen. I haven't heard anything back yet, but even when I do I don't suspect it will be a substantitive reply.

It's rough finding anything from CM locally, outside of distribution amps which can be found at Lowe's. I THINK you can order stuff from True Value. Your best bet in online, and Warren Electronics is the cheapest at warrenelectronics.com. I might also suggest taking at look at the DB8 at antennasdirect.com. It's the same antenna concept, but made a little different. I've used their DB4 for months and it works incredibly well. I'm about 6 miles north of Greer SC, if that gives you an idea of my location, and I'm getting some stuff of Charlotte with a 4 bay...you're looking at an 8 bay which is double to antenna (not necessarily twice the reception, but you get the idea). They're out of stock, but will have them on the 14th. Don't fret about buying from them...customer service is great, products are great, and shipping costs is reasonable. When you call, you usually talk to the guy who owns the place, so that's a plus. I ordered my DB4 and it got runover by a truck from UPS, so I called and they shipped me another one out the next day. Just giving you some alternatives. Let us know how it goes!

Well I ended up ordering a 4228. Have no good idea how I'm gonna mount it yet since I live in a rented duplex. I'll figure something out. :) Where's a good place for various mounting hardware, masts, etc. Thanks for the advise.

Let me know if any of you are getting UPN out of Charlotte.

Charter's testing the Moxi DVRs in Greenville now. They aren't officially being rolled out yet, but they're forking them over to people anyway, presumably to aid with testing. Right now, Video On Demand and the MusicChoice channels aren't working properly. Because of that, the first month is free. They're apparently backlogged with installations -- they told me the earliest they could come out would be the 15th. I requested to hold off till the 16th. But anyway, if any of you are interested, give 'em a call. I think the Moxi boxes are $10 a month rental, but since they take the place of the current HD box, it's a few bucks less if you're already signed up for that service.

Originally posted by dashaund
It's rough finding anything from CM locally, outside of distribution amps which can be found at Lowe's.

FYI, they are made at the Channel Master factory at Smithfield, NC east of Raleigh. So are the rotors that everyone likes so much including the remote controlled one that is sold at Lowe's.

Just tested it, and I am receiving WJZY...I'm getting a 54 signal reading, but its very stable. I haven't seen a breakup yet. However, judging by WCCB's signal now and what I saw the other night, propagation is very good right now. I'm not using a preamp, so that's pretty good (but if propagation isn't decent, you won't see it with one). I say you've got a good shot, but almost assuredly won't get anything during the day. Just remember to get it as high as possible without any obstructions (trees, buildings, etc). I wouldn't have a shot of getting WJZY if my antenna weren't approx 20ft off the ground. These signals are line of sight. I recommend a preamp, but it won't do any good if it can't see the signal at all, so keep that in mind. I'm getting WWWB even stronger, so for you WB fans, WBSC might be a while so you might want to check them out. Give it a shot and don't get discouraged if you don't get it right off. Let us know how it goes. Also, thanks for the info about CM being manufactured in Raleigh, I didn't know that. I just knew that most of the places I called that CM referenced me to on their website didn't have them at all, and a few could order one, but were expensive.

I get my TV listings from TitanTV.com and I noticed that the red HD designation was showing up on some of WBSC's shows, but when I tuned to them it didn't appear that they were passing the HD signal since I was still getting the gray bars. The next show I see coming up on WBSC with the HD designation is "Jack and Bobby" at 9pm Sunday night so I'll check it again then if I can remember.

I might add that on the DirecTV guide listings it is also showing the HD designation on some of these shows and it wasn't before.

Let's hope that this means that they're getting really close. If so we might be able to put a little more pressure on WASV since WBSC is more their competition than the major networks.

I have no difficulty getting WJZY (46-1) and I am just north of Spartanburg. I have an attic mounted 4228 not amplified.

I just installed a Terk TV55 antenna. I was able to get WHNS-DT with 60-72 singal strength. But The signal is in 16:9 480i. Is there anything i have to do to have it appear in a hdtv format?

That's WHNS for now... I hope the HD signal gets out before the World Series.

Hmm well i have another problem. Once night came my signal strength has dropped for all DT channels, most in the low teens. I cant receive any DT channel. Would a pre-amp really help or is the Terk tv55 just that crappy?

I tried a TV55, and it stunk. You can usually go in a BB or CC and see just how many "open box" (returns) they have on those, and that'll be your answer. They stink. Try something else. I've heard good things about the TV5. Many indoor antennas perform better than the TV55. I don't think you can use a preamp effectively because that antenna is already amplified.

Anyone know if there's any chance of WHNS getting HD up and running for the Sox/Yanks series???

Anyone know if there's any chance of WHNS getting HD up and running for the Sox/Yanks series???

The last I heard they were trying to get it ready by the World Series, but they still have back ordered hardware.

Do we have any other options? I read the rumor that Directv might have FOX HD starting today, but I guess a waiver for that would take awhile. Charlotte is 120 miles away from me so I doubt I could pull that in. Anything else?

By the time you applied for waivers and went through the time it takes to process it would be at least 3 weeks, and that's if you were approved. I applied at the end of August and was turned down, and I'm about to try again.

When WHNS said they were hoping to be up for the World Series I just hoped that meant they would at least be up and running for the Super Bowl. I'd be very surprised if they are broadcasting in HD by the time of the World Series. I'd just be happy if they made it before the NFL playoffs start.

If they aren't broadcasting in HD come the first of December then they will probably get bombarded by emails, letters, and phone calls complaining wanting to make sure they can watch the Super Bowl in HD.

Re Moxi, I was told by the installer and on the 800 no the VOD wasnt working yet, but I was told at the office here it was working, so I found that it does work now, I just didnt know how to access it. The Music Choice is ok also. So everything is just fine. Now if they could just get more than one local station.

I e-mailed Stan Crumley last week. He sound very optimistic about having FOX before the World Series, even sooner. Do I believe that? No. But, at least he's optimistic. WLOS seemed a little passive about it, and then all of a sudden 13-3 showed up. I have my fingers crossed, but I'm not holding my breath...

Anyone else having a problem with no video on 13-1? It's being Tivo'ed right now, but I checked and as of 8:13pm there was just audio.

Yup, sat down to watch LOST and there was audio, but the video was... lost.

Glad to know it's not just me. Just for these reasons I have my HDTivo set up to record shows broadcast in HD, and then I set my regular Tivo in my office to record them on their analog station as a backup. Looks like I'll need my backup tonight.

Yeah, same here. A couple of other people outside of the Greenville area posted that they had problems (though apparently not this exact one) in the HDTV Programming forum (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4498363#post4498363).

I had the same problem with "Lost". I kept checking back and I noticed in the last half hour that there wasn't any sound, but when they switched to local commercials or promos there was normal video and sound.

I just called WHNS and was told that they will start HD on the 20th. Said it was supposed to happen today, but they didn't make it. Man, I want to see the ALCS in HD! What can we do? I see that Directv now has the LCS games on channels 88 and 89 but I can't get them and they deny that they even exist.

"I just called WHNS and was told that they will start HD on the 20th"

Did they give you the month and year? Just kidding, this has been a long time coming.

Just out of curiousty, I would like to know how long the folks that post to this thread have had their HD set ups. I got my first in December of 2000. The only thing available then was part time WSPA-DT, HBO-HD and an HD demo channel on DirecTV. Things have sure come a long way.

I bought an HD-Ready TV earlier this year but just got a Directv HDTV receiver about 2 months ago

nlowhor:

Welcome to the club. Some of us have pressured for progress in the local HD front for well over two years. We have made progress, but it takes "masses" to get results when millions of dollars are involved--with no HD support from the FCC--in speeding HD progress. (I have lived on the other side in development of color and stereo, and video tape and many other technical advances...and it often was slow because public acceptance was slow. As is digitial conversion now.)

I've had my tv for about 2 years and my directv hd receiver for about 1 year.

Apps1,

I got my HD receiver at about the same time as you. I have changed projectors recently.

Jeff

I've got two small setups. My first is a 53" Sony RP big screen (4:3) with a Zenith DirecTV/OTA receiver (at the time they cost $800!). I've had the TV for over three years now and the receiver for almost two. The second is a 30" Sony WEGA HDTV and a Hughes HTL-HD, these I've had for probably four months. Both fed by my DB4 on the roof. I'm happy :).

I got my first STB (Samsung SIR-t150) in January of 2001, connected to a 43" Hitachi. The only GSP station, like Apps said, was WSPA. I can receive the Charlotte stations, however, so it was a worthwhile investment ($600 at the time for OTA-only!) I remember coming home and seeing WYFF come online their first day. Anyone remember that they used to zoom in on the 4:3 pictures to give us 16:9? Of course, the programming was so sparse in those days I used to make it a point to stay up and watch Jay Leno just to see the PQ. Thank goodness CBS had so much prime-time programming in the early days! I now have the t150 hooked up to my X1 and VOOM hooked up in another room to a 30-inch Samsung direct view.

I ordered Channel Master products from Wholesale Industrial Electronics here in Greenville on old Buncombe Road. phone is 235-8334. Their folks were very helpful although you will probably know more about the products than they do. They get regular shipments from the factory in Smithfield (now called Andrew), so shipping costs are low. I got the 4228 and the rotor for less than 100$ total. took two days. much better than Lowes.

calvinb

Have you ordered from them lately? I called them and they told me they had shipped their CM inventory back to Norcross. Let me know if you got some stuff from them recently because I'd like to know!

Well........tomorrow is supposed to be the day that WHNS "flips" the HD switch on .........any bets???????

It would have been great to catch the 26 innings of the ALCS that have been played the last two days (in two games!) in HD! I hope they do it!

I'm going over to FOX today, to visit a friend, and to snoop. Let you know something later today.

Yes, please let us know if they plan on going online. If they do, I'll keep the channel on at work and report any changes\progress. We should at least be able to tell if they are upconverting to 720p even without any HD programming until later on tomorrow evening. Let's hope!

Speaking of upconverting to 720p, has anyone heard when WBSC will starting passing HD content. They've been using a 720p signal for over two weeks now, but no HD. I emailed them but received no reply.

The last I heard was the were working on it but haven't gotten it fully going yet. With these stations that aren't considered "big 5," they really don't have any heat on them to get the HD going. I suppose WBSC will be in HD when they feel like putting it in HD. My hope is sooner than later, certainly.

Today on visit to FOX, I was assured they were going to "throw the switch" tomorrow the 20th as planned. When I asked at full power... I got the "I sure hope so" look. A lot has changed since I worked there, but I got a feeling if the GM wants HD, he is going to get HD. So I would say they are sure of it. We'll see!

Thanks for the update! If they are successful and do have HD today, what a first event for them -- Yankees/Red Sox Game 7! Keeping my fingers crossed for HD and a Sox win....

I second that!!! And it will really get a good first test since these games have been taking 5 hours to play!

Today on visit to FOX, I was assured they were going to "throw the switch" tomorrow the 20th as planned.

11:30, nothing new on WHNS-DT. Wonder if they're working on it today?

dashaund, I ordered my CM stuff from them about four months ago and it arrived in 2-3 days. At that time they still had a relationship with the new company "Andrew". They did not have any inventory locally but it was just a phonecall away. I talked to 2-3 guys at that store and they all gave me different stories about their relationship with CM/Andrew. Finally one woman just picked up the phone and ordered. Seemed easy enough for me. Hopefully they have not ended their relationship with the Smithfield plant. The 4228 made a HUGE difference in my reception. I now get all the local channels and I too am really looking forward to WHNS flipping the switch tonight.

Well, I'll try them again if I need some CM equipment. Thanks for the info. I, too, am looking forward to WHNS throwing the switch. Go Sox! While this isn't a sports board, I do have to state that if the Sox can pull it off, this will be one of the greatest comebacks in sports history! The Houston vs. St. Louis game starts at 4, so WHNS has approx 90 mins and counting. If they were boasting about it yesterday, then they must be pretty confident.

The early game is on and not in HD.

Ok, just got off the phone with WHNS and they are aiming for getting it on for the 8pm game. If they get their problems worked out they will pass the hd feed. They did say that they were receiving the hd feed in master control, which I took to be a good sign.

Well Fox may be in the process of converting to HD. My 21-1 channel isnt showing anything even tough the signal strength is in the mid 80's. Looks like they are doing it!

and still no HD on Fox, in fact my 21-1 is out, flickering from 45% to 0 on the signal meter. Hopefully it will be on at 8pm.

My signal is rock solid on 90, but still a black screen.

same here at 6:40. Rock solid signal, no picture. They're definitely up to something.

WHNS is trying desperately to get the game on. All of the equipment arrived today and the splicer install guy is ON SITE NOW. They have several problems that they are trying to work out as I type. This is coming to me via people with FIRST HAND info.

Just knowing that everything is there and that they are making the effort is great news, even if they don't get it done tonight I am still happy that it is about to happen.

BTW, Bob if they don't get it tonight I can always watch the night game on your FOX station.:)

They are close now! Even though 21-1 is out , my tv reports it as 1080i.

Maybe they need a little cheer to get them going (paraphrasing my high school's cheer):

W, H-N, W-H-N-S!

(The things you do for HD...):rolleyes: