I get the problem only with pre-recorded HD material. SD is fine.

--Cross


That is the same problem I had with an H10, and the Samsung 360 a few months ago. I guess they have done nothing to correct the problem. FYI- The new RCA box worked fine with WLOS HD material.

I installed a ChannelMaster 4221 on a 10 foot pole in my garden above a retaining wall and turned it in the direction of 320 degrees. I am getting NBC, ABC and even CBS which is at 5 degrees. I am unable to get PBS which is 318 degrees at only 8 miles from my house though I am getting TBN at 318 degrees the same distance. The only difference is that PBS is VFH and the TBN is UHF. The UNC PBS in UHF comes in even though it is 45 miles away. Is the 4221 so selective an UHF antenna that it unable to receive a close VHF signals? Are there people I Greenville area who are using this antenna and are able to receive the VHF PBS signals?

It will be difficult to put a combo UHF/VHF antenna that can receive all because of the size of the antenna needed to get the distant UHF signals. Should I place a second VHF antenna and combine the signals?

On another note, I can easily attach a coper wire to the house ground but am unable to attach the same 6 gauge wire to the mast. How do people attach heir ground to a ¾ or 1” mast pipe?

Thanks for all your help

That is the same problem I had with an H10, and the Samsung 360 a few months ago. I guess they have done nothing to correct the problem. FYI- The new RCA box worked fine with WLOS HD material.

FYI, I watched Desperate Housewives last night and had NO problems with video stuttering and audio sync! I'm not sure when it changed, but I'm cautiously optimistic that somebody somewhere has addressed the problem. I'm gonna drop Jim Carrier a line to see if anything changed on their end. For now I'm a happy camper. :)

--Cross

D* has had issues with my upgrade to HD and needs to move my dish to my roof. They want to install a Winegard antenna that looks like an airplane wing.

Does anyone else have this setup, and if so, does it work?

Bump. And also, does anyone in Simpsonville find that they need an amp?

D* is coming out for the THIRD time tomorrow to get this setup. Evidently, getting a hold of a 40-foot ladder rocks their world.

(And no, there's no way I'm going up there myself.)

Is it just me, or is Ron's TV wildly incompetent?

I have had two installs by Rons TV. The first was terrific, they would have tried to put the dish on the moon if I had asked. The second was 180 degrees out -- they argued with everything I said, and put the dish in an incredibly stupid place. So, it appears to be a coin flip.

I just saw a posting from yesterday afternoon in the Columbia thread, indicating that ABC will shut down its HD feed nationwide from next Tuesday (8/23) through Friday (8/26), in order to perform a system upgrade. Something about the "HD router." This will presumably affect WLOS.

I got the HD Tivo for $299.00 minus instant credit of $100.00 and mail in rebate of $100.00 so I finallly took the plunge. Go to this thread for details.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=569538

I got the HD Tivo for $299.00 minus instant credit of $100.00 and mail in rebate of $100.00 so I finallly took the plunge. Go to this thread for details.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=569538

Well done. Hard to pass up at these prices. I finally get my triple lnb dish installed tomorrow.

I sent Jim Carrier at WLOS a note informing him that my problems with out-of-sync HD content from WLOS-DT seemed to be fixed and asking if they'd done anything specific that could have addressed the problem. Here's what I got back:

"Cross,

I am glad to hear that the problem some stb's were having has been
corrected. We didn't do it, our encoder hasn't been touched. When this
first came up several month ago, I asked ABC about it and they stated
that there had been no other reports of this problem and suggested that
it might be some type of local situation.
ABC is upgrading their HDTV release facility and will not offer a feed
from 8/23/05 to 8/26/05 while they finish it off. May be something they
have already done as part of this upgrade corrected the problem.

Jim"

Whatever the fix was, I'm glad it's there!

--Cross

Hey guys, I was wondering who in this area has a HR10-250 HD DirecTV TiVo? I do, and I'm having some trouble pulling in WSPA with it. All the other locals I can get fine, and I can run the very same piece of coax to my Hughes HTL-HD and receive WSPA (along with the others). It's a very strange thing. I knew the HD TiVo had a few bugs, but this one is wierd. Again, can anyone with a HD TiVo receive WSPA in this area? Thanks guys!

Hey guys, I was wondering who in this area has a HR10-250 HD DirecTV TiVo? I do, and I'm having some trouble pulling in WSPA with it. All the other locals I can get fine, and I can run the very same piece of coax to my Hughes HTL-HD and receive WSPA (along with the others). It's a very strange thing. I knew the HD TiVo had a few bugs, but this one is wierd. Again, can anyone with a HD TiVo receive WSPA in this area? Thanks guys!


My HR10-250 HD was just installed this morning and I am receiving all channels including WSPA-DT.

I should have one tomorrow afternoon and I must be pretty close to you. We'll see.

Well, after much testing, I still can't get it. It actually "locked in" for about 5 secs then went back out. I'm guessing I've got either a blockage or interference. WSPA once was my strongest station...I could get them with an indoor UHF loop! I've got a DB4 (very close to CM 4221) at 15ft high and can't get them! I picked up a preamp from RS (I know, it's just to test), and it made very little difference. I guess I'll order a CM 7775 and give that a try. Anyone have any suggestions, besides a 50ft tower? It's just so weird that two other OTA receivers can pick it up.

Jeff:
My address says Travelers Rest, but I'm acutally between TR and Greer/Taylors. I'm just off of Hwy 290, 6mi North of Greer. You?

Well, after much testing, I still can't get it. It actually "locked in" for about 5 secs then went back out. I'm guessing I've got either a blockage or interference. WSPA once was my strongest station...I could get them with an indoor UHF loop! I've got a DB4 (very close to CM 4221) at 15ft high and can't get them! I picked up a preamp from RS (I know, it's just to test), and it made very little difference. I guess I'll order a CM 7775 and give that a try. Anyone have any suggestions, besides a 50ft tower? It's just so weird that two other OTA receivers can pick it up.

Jeff:
My address says Travelers Rest, but I'm acutally between TR and Greer/Taylors. I'm just off of Hwy 290, 6mi North of Greer. You?


For possible futre needs, you should get the CM7777 because it also has VHF.

get a 6db Attenuator at radio shack. It will cure your problem. Its about 4 bucks.
#15-1258

jeff1257

I tried a variable attenuator, #15-678, to no avail. Actually, I just decided to turn my antenna and get WBTV out of Charlotte. Oh well...

WSPA is my weakest local here in Enoree, I lock on WBTV at 100%. Even with my rotor pointing the antenna directly at the WSPA tower I get at best a mid 80's SS, I get a much stronger SS on WLOS than WSPA. Maybe WSPA needs to look at what they are doing and find an answer, because the analog shut off will happen and they will be on the outside looking in.

Well, after much testing, I still can't get it. It actually "locked in" for about 5 secs then went back out. I'm guessing I've got either a blockage or interference. WSPA once was my strongest station...I could get them with an indoor UHF loop! I've got a DB4 (very close to CM 4221) at 15ft high and can't get them! I picked up a preamp from RS (I know, it's just to test), and it made very little difference. I guess I'll order a CM 7775 and give that a try. Anyone have any suggestions, besides a 50ft tower? It's just so weird that two other OTA receivers can pick it up.

Jeff:
My address says Travelers Rest, but I'm acutally between TR and Greer/Taylors. I'm just off of Hwy 290, 6mi North of Greer. You?


Same here at my place in Mauldin. WSPA was once my strongest station. However, now something causes it to drop out frequently. Presently, I can get every station reliably except WASV and WSPA.

Well, after much testing, I still can't get it. It actually "locked in" for about 5 secs then went back out. I'm guessing I've got either a blockage or interference. WSPA once was my strongest station...I could get them with an indoor UHF loop! I've got a DB4 (very close to CM 4221) at 15ft high and can't get them! I picked up a preamp from RS (I know, it's just to test), and it made very little difference. I guess I'll order a CM 7775 and give that a try. Anyone have any suggestions, besides a 50ft tower? It's just so weird that two other OTA receivers can pick it up.

Jeff:
My address says Travelers Rest, but I'm acutally between TR and Greer/Taylors. I'm just off of Hwy 290, 6mi North of Greer. You?

I am actually in Travelers Rest. I'm supposed to get hooked up this afternoon.

I did get my HR10-250 installed Saturday afternoon and I do receive all of the local digital channels fine, including WSPA.

Well, my problem seems to be fixed, but not as I had expected. One of the big differences between my HTL-HD and my HD TiVo is with the HTL-HD, I can receive reliable signal strength readings while the antenna is turning. With the HR10-250, I can't. So, once I turned my DB4 over 180 degrees from where I had it and let it sit for a few seconds so it could lock on, WSPA came in, and very strongly. Bascially, it looks like some foilage had thickened up more so than it had a year ago, blocking my line of sight in the direction I had previously had my antenna set. I had been sweeping my antenna in all directions, but it stayed in motion the entire time. It always seems like the solutions to my problems aren't that complex, it just makes you feel like an idiot when you figure them out.

First of all, thanks to everyone who posts in this forum. The information has been very helpful with my recent upgrade to the DirecTV HD Tivo unit.

The Ron's TV installer (who openly admitted he didn't know what he was doing and did a sloppy job) installed the new satellite and Winegard antenna that DirecTV provides. I pick up all of the networks reliably except ABC. My antenna is pointed at 303 degrees. Any suggestions on how I can get the 13.1 feed? If I'm reading the Antenna Web map correctly, my antenna should point to 324 degrees.

I'm in Greer, about 3 miles north on Hwy 101 from the 101/290 split just north of Wade Hapton.

Thanks again, everyone!

John

WLOS was disapproved by the FCC for their return to 13. They are going to continue to try to get approval with engineering data. I am 47 air miles from Mt Pisgah and I am getting co-channel interference from WRCB DT 13 in Chattanooga at certain times of the day and I can get some weak, but sometimes viewable analog signals from Chattanooga at around 180 miles away up the east Tennessee river valley. It would seem that stations are not at all guaranteed to return to their old analog home channel lie maost people thought. WRCB has already been approved to stay on 13 for DT.

When I saw the polar plot and service area map for WLOS's application to return to 13, I was disappointed to see that they were going to reduce coverage to the south. With their current more-or-less omnidirectional pattern, I get a very good signal, but the new signal would probably have been at least somewhat flaky.

If they do end up staying with UHF (on another channel, of course, they can't stay on 56), I hope they don't mess with their radiation pattern.

Maybe they can get their application for 13 approved by shifting their pattern more to the south. That would be fine with me! :)

Barthy73

Hey man, you're not too far away from me! Just keep cruising up 290 for another 8 miles or so, and you'll find me! Anyways, in my opinion, you can do one of four things, in order of easiness: 1) Get a preamp. The most recommended here is the Channel Master 7777 (Often referred to as CM 7777). 2) Make sure there are absolutely NO obstructions in the direction of WLOS's tower, including trees and/or buildings. 3) Get the antenna as high as possible. Add 5 or 10ft or mast to it. 4) Get a different antenna. I have an Antennas Direct DB4, but the most recommended here is a Channel Master 4228. One of these might work for you, all might work, or none of them might work. Pretty much, this type of thing is done with trial and error. However, out of all of them, two and three are the most crucial. While not always holding true, I live by these two rules: Bigger is usually better, and higher is usually better. I don't use a preamp, but I hear of good results. Being a DirecTV installation, the antenna is probably not optimized for great performance. Let us know what you think, and I'll be glad to help you however I can!

I contacted WRCB and they will continue shooting their signal east and NE toward WLOS. WRCB's engineer says that they will get preference over WLOS from the FCC because they went to DTV on 13 first and WLOS will have to "protect" them in terms of being able to produce a signal that will not interfere with WRCB DT 13. 50 years on 13 by WLOS seems to be irrelevant to the FCC.

Had the D* Winegard airplane wing OTA installed on my roof. Am receiving all digital locals just fine.

Wasn't that impressed with L&O:SVU on NBC last night. Tonight Show looked pretty good. Is it not in DD 5.1?

HDNet was spectacular though.

Overall, happy camper.

Barthy73:
There are several DTV forums that have documented that many properties have one or more "sweet spot(s)" for receiving digital signals. For me, I have found only one place on five acres for an antenna location that receives ALL local DTV signals with my antenna oriented in one fixed position--aimed 90 degrees away from WSPA, and pointed toward Mt. Pisgah. Also, the elevation is critical--two feet higher or lower and I begin to lose stations. It so happens the location is ideal, in one corner of a second floor deck. I use a 4-bay CM bow tie, and because I insert the DT Ch 9 (from Greenville) from a small cut to channel Yagi, it is relatively small and not too much of an eye-sore. The DT-9 is inserted into the line with a CM 7777 amp so that I can split the signals between two areas in the house. All are mounted on light-weight PVC pipes!) The nearly 4 dB signal loss with the splitter actually solves an otherwise overload problem for the three line-of-site transmitters south of me. I have experimented with a great number of UHF antennas during my career and have little regard for the "promotional" antennas used by satellite and cable companies. I suggest you start by changing out your antenna.
(The CM 4-bay antennas gather a fair amount of signal from the hi-band VHF such as Ch-9 and you just may receive the SCHDTV signal without a VHF antenna.)
Good luck.

My UHF yagi picks up DT-9 very well.

Hey Jerry and Dashaund,

Thanks for the advice. Before I saw your messages, I decided to try and move the current antenna slightly, and the winegard airplane propeller is now picking up WLOS around 70%. It's not 100% consistent, but it should get me by. I do have some tall trees that could cause problems, but for the time being, I'm satisfied. Eventually, when DirecTV broadcasts the HD channels, I'll ditch the antenna anyway. If the WLOS signal goes back to where it was (30-40%), I'll probably try the CM7777 and move the antenna a bit higher.

Bring on the football season! Any Green Bay Packer or Iowa Hawkeye fans out there? Give me a shout. I've got all games at my place!

JB

I know that we are in DMA 35, and that D* is providing Lil for the largest 12 (13??) first. But are there any rumors/guesses/tea leaf readings for when D* will get to us for Lil? 2006? 2007? I am moving a short distance away, and my hunch is that OTA will be real tough there (terrain/trees). So, if the wait is not too long, I may just tough it out.

I know that we are in DMA 35, and that D* is providing Lil for the largest 12 (13??) first. But are there any rumors/guesses/tea leaf readings for when D* will get to us for Lil? 2006? 2007? I am moving a short distance away, and my hunch is that OTA will be real tough there (terrain/trees). So, if the wait is not too long, I may just tough it out.


From everything I have read, I would guess we would get our HD locals on D* by this spring, but I would think for sure they would be up by this time next year at the latest.

Had to call WLOS twice to get them to fianally understand that the Little League World Series WAS an HD broadcast.

Apps1-
Thanks for the input. Next spring would be absolutely perfect for me, if it happens.

Had to call WLOS twice to get them to fianally understand that the Little League World Series WAS an HD broadcast.

Thanks for doing that. I actually watched much of the game. I started watching it because the picture WAS in HD and it looked glorious. It ended up being a great game!

If it hadn't been in HD, I don't think I would have started watching it.

Barthy73

Personally, even though I am a D* subscriber, I will still watch locals OTA. The main reason is picture quality. We all now how terrible local channels are in SD now, and I don't expect the HD programming on D* locals to be as good as OTA. Also, it's fun to pick up out-of-market and the sub-channels OTA (you know, 29-2, 29-3, 4-2). If any of that sounds interesting to you, I recommend putting up a solid antenna.

Had to call WLOS twice to get them to fianally understand that the Little League World Series WAS an HD broadcast.


Didn't you just love it when they switched from the game to their lame local news cast. The idiot that made that decision should be flogged. They don't even really pretend to cover the upstate, so if you don't care about the latest trend in granola or where the latest moonshine bust was there "news" is totally useless. :D

WLOS is just like the Asheville newspaper - it tells you far more than you ever wanted to know about Asheville, and nothing about anything else!

I am in asheville and have trouble with wlos-dt. i get 100% signal the drops every few seconds, enough to cause the picture to studder or audio to drop for a second. Its so bad, I really cant watch. I tried using an 8 bay antenna on roof, in my yard at different locations with the same results. I then bought indoor amplified antenna, can get at 100% with same dropouts. I am about 30 miles northeast of mount pisgah in swannanoa, zip 28778. I wish I could get it, Charter only has NBC and CBS in HD. I remember reading about problems with certain STB's, anyone know if that is still the case? I can get UNCHD perfectly fine with no hiccups. It sounds like a reflection issue, but it must be one big reflection. Maybe I can do better in the winter when the leaves fall off the trees. I am using a Directv Hughes HIRDE50 reciever.

WLOS is just like the Asheville newspaper - it tells you far more than you ever wanted to know about Asheville, and nothing about anything else!


So...what is your gripe? There is actually a pretty good reason for that....WLOS is an Asheville station, thus targets its news to western North Carolina. Just like the Asheville Citizen-Times focuses on Western NC, and does not even circulate in South Carolina.

WSPA and WYFF admittedly do not put too much effort into covering news for WNC (see MediaWeek, 3/17/2003). WYFF tends to target the western part of the upstate, while WSPA targets the eastern part of the upstate. Viewers tend to gravitate toward their respective "backyard" tv station - thus there is no dominant news station in the DMA.

I believe if you look around at other "hyphenated" markets, you will find similar situations wrt the broadcasters.

I believe if you look around at other "hyphenated" markets, you will find similar situations wrt the broadcasters.

Not in the Triad. All three news stations go after the whole area. That is why there is only three stations doing news and not the SInclair stations anymore.

This market is very peculiar - maybe because of the terrain. A while back...probably when Sinclair first took over operations of WLOS (I'll see if I can find a reference)...WLOS started to move operations to Greenville. However, there was a huge public outcry along with threatened boycotts in WNC if they left Asheville.

I always try to back up anything I say....

“As in other "hyphenated" TV markets, geography plays a significant role in local news viewing habits in Greenville-Spartanburg--Asheville--Anderson; residents tend to remain loyal to stations in their own backyards. While all the local outlets' news departments try to cover the entire DMA, geography also factors into their story selection. For example, WLOS-TV, Sinclair Broadcast Group's ABC affiliate, is the only station in the market that is based in North Carolina. As a result, the Asheville outlet tends to focus on North Carolina stories while still covering other parts of the DMA.”

But, the North Carolina portion of the market cannot be neglected.

“About 62 percent of the total households in the DMA are in the 10 South Carolina counties. The 14 North Carolina counties account for about 30 percent of the total homes in the market.”

Source: Hudson, E.D. "Market Profile: Greenville--Spartanburg, S.C.," MediaWeek (11:12), March 19 2001.

I am aware that the Triad market is more singular in their reporting. The same goes for the Raleigh-Durham-Chapel Hill market. However, just a quick search of some other hyphenated markets revealed the following.

Roanoke-Lynchburg:
“CBS affiliate WDBJ, the market leader in overall ratings, and NBC affiliate WSLS are Roanoke-based and focus their newscasts there. WSET, headquartered in Lynchburg, puts its emphasis on its hometown. The Fox affiliate has towers in both cities and two sets of call letters, WFXR Roanoke and WJPR Lynchburg. Its 10 p.m. news spreads coverage to both cities.”

Source: Romano, A. "A Mountainous Divide," Broadcasting & Cable (135:28), July 11 2005, p 9.



Wilkes-Barre-Scranton:
“Hyphenated markets can be tricky. To establish a niche in news, WBRE positions itself as the Wilkes-Barre outlet, while WYOU focuses more on the Scranton area. But, WNEP seems to appeal to everyone.”

Source: Romano, A. "WNEP in Charge," Broadcasting & Cable (135:21), May 23 2005, p 11.



Flint-Saginaw-Bay City:
“The hyphenated market is split geographically, with viewer allegiances going to the station in their own part of the market.”

Source: Hudson, E.D. "Market Profile: Flint, Mich," MediaWeek (12:11), March 18 2002.


Santa Barbara-Santa Maria-San Luis Obispo:
“This is a triple-hyphenated market, where each station truly serves its own community it's located in.”

Source: Wang, K.S. "Santa Barbara-Santa Maria-San Luis Obispo," Electronic Media (20:19), May 7 2001.

I think WYFF does a pretty good job of covering Spartanburg, far better than WSPA does covering Greenville. I call a station which focusses almost solely on the local area, such as WLOS, "provincial."

I think WYFF does a pretty good job of covering Spartanburg, far better than WSPA does covering Greenville. I call a station which focusses almost solely on the local area, such as WLOS, "provincial."


I agree with you wholeheartedly. This provencial attitude of the stations is probably just the nature of the beast when you have a market with one city located some 75 miles away.

The reason I can talk about the WLOS vs The Rest is that I grew up in WNC. We did not watch the SC stations for news - partially because we could not receive them well, and partially because they didn't cover the area - at all.

It is only in the past several years that I have noticed a change in this behavior. This may be due to satellite delivery of their stations. However, I now see some live reports from NC on WYFF and WSPA. At least now, they are providing the weather for the mountains.

To be honest with you - the most balanced newscast is the 10 o'clock news on WHNS.

To be honest with you - the most balanced newscast is the 10 o'clock news on WHNS.

If I remember my history correctly, WHNS was originally licensed to Asheville and a few years ago change their city of license to Greenville when they moved to Greenville.

Yes...actually, they started back in the 50s, were originally WANC & had a tower on (I think) Town Mountain in Asheville. When they first signed on as WHNS, If I recall correctly, their studios were on the downtown side of Beaucatcher Tunnel. They quickly moved operations to Greenville. However, it has only been in the past couple of years that they moved their community of license to Greenville.

To be honest with you - the most balanced newscast is the 10 o'clock news on WHNS.


Is that "fair and balanced" or just "balanced"? ;)

Is that "fair and balanced" or just "balanced"? ;)

LOL...we could probably start a major debate about that (or has that already been done?).

Since WLOS put in their new transmitter and went to full power, I've been watching its local news and the ABC national news more than their counterparts on the other area stations. It sometimes feels a bit odd because Asheville is so far away from me and I've really visited the place only a handful of times. Usually I just pass through on the interstates a couple of times a year on my way to or from Tennessee or places further north.

But WLOS now produces my second-most reliable signal, just a bit behind WSPA, because my current antenna setup apparently has multipath issues with WYFF and WHNS. Those two come in strong overall, but with just enough breakups and dropouts to be annoying. I keep having to tweak the antenna orientation to maintain a good signal.

And WLOS produces (for me) the best picture with locally-originated and upconverted network SD material. It's crisper than WYFF and especially WSPA; and the color on WSPA's local news looks kind of weird to me, with low contrast and faces that look like they're glowing with a strange hue.

And of course neither WYFF nor WSPA ever report much from the Clinton/Laurens area, not that we have much real news here anyway. :rolleyes: So I'm happy to be able to surf around and sample what's happening in GSP/AVL, Charlotte, and Columbia.

I worked at WHNS a couple of months after they signed on (1984). The main broadcast studio was always in Greenville, and they had a temp office in Asheville for a couple of years. The reason for the Asheville office was the FCC made Asheville our city of licence. The Office that was built in Asheville (the big gold building, with gold windows) had a studio and equipment... most of which didn't work. We would load field cameras in our vans and drive them up every month to shoot community affair programs, bring it all "down the hill" and post the shows.

Funny enough, the FCC made one of our General Managers move to Asheville, in order to keep our licences.

Fox moved their "city of license" to Greenville a few years ago, so they could have lottery advertising. Stations in North Carolina are not allowed to accept lottery advertising. Our bosses didn't discover this little detail, until AFTER they budgeted of the lottery money. That year, we spent the whole year trying to make up that little deficit.

John Burton

I am in asheville and have trouble with wlos-dt. i get 100% signal the drops every few seconds, enough to cause the picture to studder or audio to drop for a second. Its so bad, I really cant watch. I tried using an 8 bay antenna on roof, in my yard at different locations with the same results. I then bought indoor amplified antenna, can get at 100% with same dropouts. I am about 30 miles northeast of mount pisgah in swannanoa, zip 28778. I wish I could get it, Charter only has NBC and CBS in HD. I remember reading about problems with certain STB's, anyone know if that is still the case? I can get UNCHD perfectly fine with no hiccups. It sounds like a reflection issue, but it must be one big reflection. Maybe I can do better in the winter when the leaves fall off the trees. I am using a Directv Hughes HIRDE50 reciever.

Anyone know of why I may be having these problems?

Anyone know of why I may be having these problems?

Just tossing out a possibility (primarily because it is something I recently noticed about my setup while my wife was running an electrical appliance)...but, could it be electrical noise interference? The other day....all my channels were dropping out at regular intervals. It turned out to be an appliance my wife had running causing interference.

HD/Digital tuners have proven (in my situation) to be good at handling multipath and weakened signals from line-of-site obstructions, but I found out the hard way that electrical interference can cause major problems. After much consultation with the power company and top engineers in the RF industry, I discovered most of my occasional reception problems were, indeed, locally generated powerline "spikes" originating on my own property. These are most easily identified on analog sets as "sparkles" dotting the screen, often in narrow bands...or by use of AM or shortwave radio. There are many sources, especially motors that use brushes. If you have problems, check out your electrical equipment!

Thanks for the replies. I tried to disconnect my Charter DVR, and tried some different outlets around the house and have the same problem. The only thing I havent tried to disconnect is the fridge and my wireless network. Guess thats next on the list for interference. Anyone heard of that? I doubt the refridgerator would be causing the problem, even though its only about 8 feef from my STB.

Thanks Again
Scott

Scott: See your private message for the latest info on wireless causing problems.

Ok, NFL Season begins this week. Anyone heard anything about FOX getting on Charter? I've given up on WLOS for MNF, but FOX seems a necessity.

At the rate Charter seems to be adding channels, I would suggest that you look into adding an antenna. Check out antennaweb.org to see what size antenna you would need to get WHNS. Our favorite is the Channel Master 4221. Do you live in an area where they have antenna restrictions? You do have the right to put up one by law. And the 4221 isn't really that "ugly." The Winegard SqaureShooter is another favorite, especially since it doesn't look like a traditional antenna. Remember: the more heigth the better. Preamps can help too for weaker signals.

For those interested in the future changes in channel allocation, an excellent article on reasons to abandon the low band VHF can be found at: http://www.mstv.org/docs/techinfo.pdf
There are also good reasons to abandon the high band VHF, but that seems to be a lost cause.
This is good reading because it helps to understand why analog TV has had so many problems over the years.

Interesting reading, Jerry! I hope that WYFF doesn't end up moving its digital signal back to ch 4 after the analog shutdown. The impulse noise on my analog ch 4 signal is very noticeable on dry days. If I can't block it, and it rips up my digital reception, I'd probably just give up on WYFF and switch to WCNC out of Charlotte for my NBC stuff. That signal is somewhat weak and flaky during the day, but I don't have a pre-amp on my antenna, so that's an obvious path to improvement.

I'm holding off on improving my antenna setup until the final channel allocations are settled. If I don't have to bother with low-band VHF, that will be a big help in terms of antenna size.

Anyone know of why I may be having these problems?

I am having nearly the identical issue with WLOS as you are. I'm getting high 70's/low 80's on signal strength, then every few minutes it will drop to the 40's, I'll lose audio/video for a few seconds, then strength will go back up to the high 70's low 80's only to repeat the process over and over and over.

It was so bad last night that I gave up on watching the ballgame on WLOS. Unfortunately WLOS is the only ABC station I receive where I'm located (Moore, SC).

I'm using an indoor antenna and was looking to upgrade to fix the problem, but I don't know that it will be resolved with an outdoor antenna and I might be better off saving my money.

I am having nearly the identical issue with WLOS as you are. I'm getting high 70's/low 80's on signal strength, then every few minutes it will drop to the 40's, I'll lose audio/video for a few seconds, then strength will go back up to the high 70's low 80's only to repeat the process over and over and over.

It was so bad last night that I gave up on watching the ballgame on WLOS. Unfortunately WLOS is the only ABC station I receive where I'm located (Moore, SC).

I'm using an indoor antenna and was looking to upgrade to fix the problem, but I don't know that it will be resolved with an outdoor antenna and I might be better off saving my money.

What model set-top box are you using?

I have a Sony KDF-E50A10.

All other channels come in just fine and I don't get this break-up like I'm seeing on WLOS.

Samsung TS 160 has no problems with WLOS-DT; has some problems with 33-x for the past five days, both from the same tower. In addition to some pixelization, the 33-x signal causes my Samsung TS 160 to re-boot. The reboot problem is a number of months old.

I dont know if something is causing interference or if its a problem with certain stb's. I read that they were having compatibility issues (wlos) but also read somewhere that it is supposedly fixed. I am in Swannanoa NC, about 28 miles from mount pisgah. I did try a large 8 bay antenna with same dropout problems as my indoor antenna. I can still get 100% signal with my indoor, so an outdoor antenna may not fix the problem. Maybe you could buy local from rat schack and return if it doesnt work. you are welcome to try my 8 bay if you want, its just sitting on a pole on my roof.

Appreciate the offer, but I'm planning on getting a DB4 anyway just so I can pull in the Charlotte stations a bit more reliably and potentially snag Columbia as well. Probably get that on order today so I can get it put up and hopefully pull in another ABC affiliate.

Which HD Rx do you have?

I have the HUGHES-HIRD-E8 model

I am having nearly the identical issue with WLOS as you are. I'm getting high 70's/low 80's on signal strength, then every few minutes it will drop to the 40's, I'll lose audio/video for a few seconds, then strength will go back up to the high 70's low 80's only to repeat the process over and over and over.

It was so bad last night that I gave up on watching the ballgame on WLOS. Unfortunately WLOS is the only ABC station I receive where I'm located (Moore, SC).

I'm using an indoor antenna and was looking to upgrade to fix the problem, but I don't know that it will be resolved with an outdoor antenna and I might be better off saving my money.

I am in Moore, SC too and had the same problem with drop outs until I put a Channel Master U/V antenna in the attic. The signal from WLOS is as strong as WSPA with no drop outs. Now I get WNTV solid also. If you look at their DT footprint they have a null in our direction.

I have the HUGHES-HIRD-E8 model

I was using this Hughes model and had the same problems with WLOS as you describe. The problem is specific to this receiver. The receiver always showd 100% SS but the picure was continually freezing and stuttering. I have tested the new RCA, the Samsung 360, and the Hughes HD Tivo and they all receive WLOS fine with the same antenna set up.

I am in Moore, SC too and had the same problem with drop outs until I put a Channel Master U/V antenna in the attic. The signal from WLOS is as strong as WSPA with no drop outs. Now I get WNTV solid also. If you look at their DT footprint they have a null in our direction.

I ordered the DB4 yesterday and will put it up in my attic (after testing it off my porch first). I hope that solves the problem because I'd hate to have it be a receiver problem.

Not sure how long Antennas Direct takes to ship, but I hope it will be here next week...miss MNF but thems the breaks.

Has anyone heard anything about WASV passing along an HD signal?

I was looking forward to seeing Veronica Mars in HD this year.

Has anyone heard anything about WASV passing along an HD signal?

I was looking forward to seeing Veronica Mars in HD this year.I e-mailed them a couple of months ago and was told "end of July", although that obviously didn't happen. I sent a follow-up this afternoon. If I get a response, I'll let you know. Their e-mail address is upn62@wasv.com , by the way.

When did WSPA start their weather subchannel on 7-2? I noticed it for the first time tonight when I was trying out a new STB and did a channel scan with it. I guess the last time I did a channel scan on one of my other STBs was probably about a month ago.

I found 7-2 on mine last night without a channel scan...it just showed up when I was changing channels.

Regarding my "problem" with WLOS...it wasn't present last night. Watched the ballgame without a problem and I've made no changes on my end.

Strange. Still going to install the DB4 of course, but the issue seems to have resolved itself.

7-2 has been on the air for a couple of days. The first day it was simply a SD copy of the HD signal, but then either Tuesday or Wednesday it switched to the weather station. It looks like a clone of 4-2.

I also have a problem with reception from 7. I have a MyHD card which seems to do better with the signal than the built in my Zenith TV, but I can also rotate my antenna and pick up channel 3 out of Charlotte and get a more stable signal a lot of times. The signal strength is quite a bit less, but more stable with less drop outs. I have a preamp, so it might be that I am over driving my signal, but I need it for my other channels, so I won't be removing it.

Well i was very depressed this monday night when i couldnt watch the FSU game in HD but i can not for the life of me get WLOS in. I have a CM4221 that was in the attic but i moved it outside and still i cant get a strong signal no higher then 42. I guess i will have to buy an amp and see if that will solve my problem. I have never been able to get WLOS or fox in on my antenna. Do they sell amps here in greenville anywhere?

I guess i will have to buy an amp and see if that will solve my problem. I have never been able to get WLOS or fox in on my antenna. Do they sell amps here in greenville anywhere?

An amp at your location just may do the trick. But get a good one! Strongly recommend a Channel Master. The exact model will depend on your antenna setup. You can find CM brand at Lowes, but not the better commercial grade. The best source based on models and price are on the internet. Google it.

well it's 1pm and WHNS-DT is still showing a 4:3 picture on their digital channel with the sidebars. Today's Panthers/Saints game is 480p 16:9, and I know from reading other threads that they've showed HD and 16:9 clips in their pregame shows but we've seen none of it.

Another year... more crappy service.

well it's 1pm and WHNS-DT is still showing a 4:3 picture on their digital channel with the sidebars. Today's Panthers/Saints game is 480p 16:9, and I know from reading other threads that they've showed HD and 16:9 clips in their pregame shows but we've seen none of it.

Another year... more crappy service.


See below message:


I have found out that the Saints/Panthers game from FOX this weekend will NOT
be in HD. FOX has 7 games this week and they only can do 6 HD games max a
week. The other 6 games have marquee teams playing and I guess the Panthers
and the Saints don't rate this week. Maybe next week.
_______________________________________________
NCHDTV mailing list
NCHDTV@nchdtv.com
http://www.w4cl.net/mailman/listinfo/nchdtv

Yes it isn't in HD, but FOX does ALL of their games that aren't in HD in 16:9 480p widescreen so you should still be getting a widescreen picture, just at DVD resolution. Fox doesn't do ANY 4:3 NFL broadcasts anymore, everything is either HD or Widescreen.

I know from comments on another thread that they were showing Saints/Panthers 16:9 widescreen during their pregame show in other cities. WHNS is just asleep at the switch

Yep, that's right. It's 480p widescreen from WTNZ in Knoxville. WEMT in Greenville is showing a sort of 4:3 stretch version, not sure what they're doing.

The Cowboys/Chargers is supposed to be true HD.

Does anyone know about an upcoming Northland Cable HD Package? I've talked to someone there a few months ago, and they were testing it in some Texas markets, but I haven't heard anything else since.

The Cowboys/Chargers is supposed to be true HD.

WHNS still showing 4:3 picture.

I tried to call WHNS, but all I got was a recording. Does anyone know a more direct line?

Does anybody here have an e-mail address for WHNS engineering? I'd like to complain about today's 4:3 fiasco on the Panthers game when it was available in 16:9

Update at 5:02 they've FINALLY flipped the switch and Dallas/San Diego is in HD now

I tried to call WHNS, but all I got was a recording. Does anyone know a more direct line?
Most stations have a 24-hour news line. Call that one, and when they answer, ask to be transferred to Master Control.

I was disappointed to find both early games were not HD yesterday....I didn't watch either as a result, went out and did some work around the house. Bah....$2500 for a 50" HD TV only for them to broadcast in crummy SD, and 4:3 at that?

Not only was the Fox game not in HD for me, I all of a sudden stopped getting Ch7 OTA at all. I don't watch it much, so I'm not sure when it happened, but I got no signal yesterday.

Did they finally through the switch for HD on the cowboys game? man i went upstairs and watched it on my old tv in SD after i saw it was another sidebar game. What was up with the steelers/titans game, it was also 4:3 but the highlights on ESPN at 7:30 were in 16:9. I hate those damn grey bars.

Channel 7 was asleep at the switch too. I switched to 3-1 out of Charlotte to watch the games in HD because 7-1 was showing them in 4:3 SD. I don't know if/when they ever got it right. They also are having trouble with 7-2. Sometimes it is weather, but often it is just a SD signal of 7-1. Not that I really care, it seems to be an almost identical copy of 4-2, but it speaks volumes to the compentency of the people working there.

I thought WHNS has an automatic HD switcher that is controlled from the network end, not locally. This is why they normally don't have any problems. But perhaps the widescreen 480p signal doesn't trip the switch and someone from studio needed to flip it - something they aren't use to doing.

Did they finally through the switch for HD on the cowboys game?

Yea they finally did, I was getting angry.


Latest from Northland : HD Coming in October.

I called both stations yesterday and e-mailed them last night asking for their help in receiving HD broadcasts. I also mentioned that while the Panthers/Saints game was not available in HD it should have been widescreen. I hope everyone else will call/e-mail to let them know that there are a number of us out here who are looking for HD. I don't think they realize that there are very many people watching....

I'm i the only one who sits here wondering how does ESPN do such a great job with NFL HD while other channels forget to hit the switch ....... or whatever the excuse is for the day. Sometimes i really wonder if noone beside us give a crap about HD. Somedays i wonder if this is as good as HD will get unless something major changes in the way people at the top think.

Some of you may be wondering about the new subchannel on WYFF-DT.

WYFF has added a second subchannel (4-3) that is our sister station in New Orleans, WDSU. The reason for the addition is to allow evacuees to watch a "home town" station while they are in the area. We are supplying a receive system to the Palmetto Expo Center for the evacuees there.

We're not sure at this time how long this will be on.

Doug

Doug,
That is a great use of the technology that is before us to help others.
Kudos to you and WYFF.

Josh

Some of you may be wondering about the new subchannel on WYFF-DT.

WYFF has added a second subchannel (4-3) that is our sister station in New Orleans, WDSU. The reason for the addition is to allow evacuees to watch a "home town" station while they are in the area. We are supplying a receive system to the Palmetto Expo Center for the evacuees there.

We're not sure at this time how long this will be on.

Doug

This is a great concept, but unfortunately I can't pick up ANY of the WYFF sub-channels. I get the normal digital channel just fine but even with multiple re-scans I can't get my TV to pick them up. I get all the other sub-channels in the area just fine. I'm using a samsung tv with a built in tuner.

Anybody have any ideas?

For once, I approve of a subchannel...they found a worthwhile use of bandwidth.

Is this the brainchild of WYFF or did it come down from above at NBC? Are they doing it in a lot of places? It's a great idea.

just an update I got the subchannels rolling (finally)! Hats off to WYFF, this is fascinating.

I only wish you could do more of this in the future.... for instance if a storm is bearing down on the SC Coast why not pull in a local affiliate from the lower state as well

I agree, this is a great idea WYFF. Keep up the good work.

I was just about to post what I had found, but others beat me to it. Great use of a subchannel for WDSU! That is so awesome! Kudos to WYFF!

Using technology for a proper purpose? Oh my! lol

What was the deal with WLOS last night? Was it the feed to them that kept switching between SD and HD or would that be a WLOS issue? It was a bit aggravating at first because I thought it was my TV losing the signal again...but fortunately I haven't had that problem repeat itself after it mysteriously cleared up last week.

just an update I got the subchannels rolling (finally)! Hats off to WYFF, this is fascinating.

I only wish you could do more of this in the future.... for instance if a storm is bearing down on the SC Coast why not pull in a local affiliate from the lower state as well


This is great. I am certain the people from that region are very thankful. Thanks WYFF!!!

For once, I approve of a subchannel...they found a worthwhile use of bandwidth.

Is this the brainchild of WYFF or did it come down from above at NBC? Are they doing it in a lot of places? It's a great idea.


This was a local decision. I'm not aware of this being done anywhere else.

Doug

I am in Moore, SC too and had the same problem with drop outs until I put a Channel Master U/V antenna in the attic. The signal from WLOS is as strong as WSPA with no drop outs. Now I get WNTV solid also. If you look at their DT footprint they have a null in our direction.


Bingo, it was a compatibiliy issue with WLOS and my Hughes Reciever. I purchased a accurian hdtv stb from rat shack for 89.88 and it works great. No breakups 89% signal no drops. I wonder what is up with WLOS software vs. UNCTV, I could pick them up fine with the same STB. I am a happy camper. THanks all for the help.

This was a local decision. I'm not aware of this being done anywhere else.

I was watching some of it tonight and saw a notice that the channel was being carried in a couple of places outside NO including (I think) Jackson MS. Didn't mention Greenville.

What was the deal with WLOS last night? Was it the feed to them that kept switching between SD and HD or would that be a WLOS issue?
I saw the same thing on WSOC-DT in Charlotte, so I guess it was the network feed.

I purchased a accurian hdtv stb from rat shack for 89.88 and it works great.
I bought one also. It's a nice little box and a great deal for 90 bucks.

I get the sub channels from NBC, CBS and SC and NC PBS stations. I am not sure if all of them are 480p or not. Can someone clarify?

The channels look sharp when unconverted to 1080i on my LG4200 but look terrible when it is a stretched 16 x 9 picture.

thanks

Anyone know what the deal was with WSPA-DT over the weekend? I was looking to watch tennis in HD and couldn't find the channel - nothing. Normally I pull in 7-1 very easily. I've been away from this thread for a while and looked over the last few pages and did not see anything. Was I the only one who had problems?

Anyone know what the deal was with WSPA-DT over the weekend? I was looking to watch tennis in HD and couldn't find the channel - nothing. Normally I pull in 7-1 very easily. I've been away from this thread for a while and looked over the last few pages and did not see anything. Was I the only one who had problems?

I watched some of the tennis this week-end and I didn't have any problems.

Anyone know what the deal was with WSPA-DT over the weekend? I was looking to watch tennis in HD and couldn't find the channel - nothing. Normally I pull in 7-1 very easily. I've been away from this thread for a while and looked over the last few pages and did not see anything. Was I the only one who had problems?

I didn't have any problems, but they have been playing with the 7-2 weather channel. (Their copy of 4-2)

I am in Greenville and saw the 1st set of the Agassi and Pierce matches and they came in well and clear in HD. I thought that there was a small bit of the Agassi pre match telecast that was not in HD but once the actual match started it was in HD

Now that NBC has started to telecast 2 sub channels in addition to the main channels I wonder how long will it take for the copycats at CBS, ABC and FOX to follow with their own versions? I get DTV/HD on OTA and so there is less compression but I wonder how many channels can be added at this rate before the picture quality of the HD channels start to deteriorate? It is annoying to see so many weather sub channels that use up valuable bandwidth during HD transmission. I would rather have a sub channel transmit a sister channel that is from another area than look at a weather channel. Maybe a rerun of old shows on a sub channel if they have to transmit a sub channel at all costs.

Someone at the FCC told me that 100 stations missed the full power DT mandate and the FCC was giving them until September 15. That deadline is today and WLOS is still not operating at full power or fixed their so-called equalizer problem. WLOS has been turned down on their first attempt to go back to 13 for DTV. Their delays in going full power certainly will not help.
WVLT in Knoxville is vacating Ch. 8 after the transition. WLOS might consider operating on Ch. 8. The UHF DTV signals are a disappointment in the terrain of western NC. I hope WLOS can stay on a VHF channel since VHF fills in the valleys better than UHF.

WVLT in Knoxville is vacating Ch. 8 after the transition. WLOS might consider operating on Ch. 8.

That idea is almost certainly a non-starter because WOLO in Columbia is using Ch. 8 for its DTV signal. The two stations would definitely interfere here unless one of them reduced its coverage area significantly.

Received the DB4 antenna yesterday and plugged it up. Just hanging from my porch I'm getting 90-100 on all channels, including the Charlotte, NC CBS. I was going to put this up on the roof, but as it is I'm going to put it on pole in my flower bed, paint it green and be done with it.

ND Football in HD this year and I hope that the folks at WYFF remember to flip the switch. If they dont I will call and remind them very fast.

Got a response:

Adam Tyner,

WASV will be full power and in HD by July 1, 2006 as required by the FCC.

Thank you,

Edgar Woodfin
Assistant Chief Engineer
WSPA-TV/DT
WASV-TV/DT

ravichander: Regarding use of band-width for sub-channels:
If you want to know just how bad it can make the HD transmission look, check out the local PBS stations for the artifacts during dissolves, fades and camera movement.
It is too bad the networks continue to copy each other, and as all evening news programs at the same time, all subchannel weathercasts look the same. Except, each try to out-yell the other with their channel slogans!

(And I used to be in the business!)

I have the Hughes HD Tivo unit. As of yesterday the guide data for the channels is reversed. 7-1 has the Storm Team data and 7-2 has the normal programming data. I have done two re-scans but it has not corrected the problem. Has anyone else with the Tivo unit or any other unit had a guide problem with WSPA?

Has anyone else with the Tivo unit or any other unit had a guide problem with WSPA?Charter's Moxi box was the same way last night. I haven't checked today.

I had guide problems with WSPA yesterday, not with Tivo, but with my Samsung RX.

Thanks for the replies. It must be on their end. I have sent them an e-mail about the problem. I will post any info I get.

I may be moving to Iva Sc in the near future. I looked up antennaweb.org but i dont believe the results of the findings. I noticed Charter has cable in the area, but no HD or internet. Is that true?

I had guide problems with WSPA yesterday, not with Tivo, but with my Samsung RX.
When I look at the off-air signal on my RCA, the guide extracted from the station PSIP is correct. Also, TitanTV has it correct. I had a discussion with the station engineer today, and he thinks everything is OK at their end. I then spent some time on the phone with DirecTV, and convinced the 2nd-tier support to elevate to engineering, or wherever they check this stuff. I think the problem originates either with them, or with whoever supplies them with program data. At any rate, it should get some attention soon...

Thanks for the replies. It must be on their end. I have sent them an e-mail about the problem. I will post any info I get.It was flaky earlier this evening but was corrected when I checked it an hour ago.

I may be moving to Iva Sc in the near future. I looked up antennaweb.org but i dont believe the results of the findings. I noticed Charter has cable in the area, but no HD or internet. Is that true?

Welcome to the area (even if that is a little premature). Charter does have HD service and internet service (at least in Greenville). However, the HD service only includes one (perhaps two - I can't remember) of the local channels. I believe they offer most of the other "national" HD content found in other Charter areas (like ESPN, etc). I don't subscribe to CHarter HD, so I am going off memory here.

They certainly offer high speed internet as I do subscribe to that. I am in Greer, SC, so perhaps availability in IVA is something different. I would assume Iva is part of the Anderson area for Charter, but I could be completely off base. If it is, then surely they offer HD and internet to their customers as Anderson is a big market.

Did you get your information from Charter or just antennaweb? Obviously the best source would be direct from Charter.

Re WSPA-DT
The problem with WSPA listings continues this morning. Specifically, 7-1 is listed as the Storm team 7 weather, and 7-2 is listed with regular programming. This is "backwards." If you program a receiver to record/view a regular program you will get weather.

(I will forward this to WSPA with a request for correction.)

However, the HD service only includes one (perhaps two - I can't remember) of the local channels. I believe they offer most of the other "national" HD content found in other Charter areas (like ESPN, etc). I don't subscribe to CHarter HD, so I am going off memory here. Good memory, then. :)

Charter's HD lineup, at least in Greenville, consists of:

HDNet
HDNet Movies
ESPN-HD
Braves-HD (most Atlanta Braves home games in HD)
Discovery HD Theater
HBO-HD
Showtime-HD
WYFF-D (NBC)
WSPA-D (CBS)
Universal HD
TNT-HD

Anybody know what channel Charter broadcasts WSPA-D on? I know WYFF-D is 103-1. I need the actual channel and not the remapped channel. I have a QAM receiver and can't seem to find WSPA while I can find WYFF. Thanks.

Latest infomation regarding WSPA's program guide info:
<quote>
It turns out that Tribune Media Services which feeds guides to both DirecTV and DISH had it wrong and actually saw where it was good on the 11th, then flipped on the 12th. They are not sure what happened, but it will be corrected today and the satellite providers should update overnight. Sorry of the inconvenience.

Edgar
<end quote>

Any updates on WLOS? It seems incredible that in late September we are still waiting for WLOS to maximize their power which should have happened July 1! Has the infamous equalizer problem been addressed?

Latest infomation regarding WSPA's program guide info:
<quote>
It turns out that Tribune Media Services which feeds guides to both DirecTV and DISH had it wrong and actually saw where it was good on the 11th, then flipped on the 12th. They are not sure what happened, but it will be corrected today and the satellite providers should update overnight. Sorry of the inconvenience.

Edgar
<end quote>

The guide problem is corrected on my Hughes HD Tivo unit as of 3:00pm today.

I live in Greenville SC, I have a DB4 antenna to pick up OTA HD. The reception is horrible. I hear that this is one of the best OTA antennas. Where does this thing need to point for ABCHD and FOXHD?

Go titantv.com

Anyone picking up ABC HD or FOX HD with an OTA (directional) in Greenville SC? I have one and can pick up ABC and Fox, but not the HD versions, it says the digital signal strength is too low. The antenna is big and has a radius of 65 miles.

Anyone picking up ABC HD or FOX HD with an OTA (directional) in Greenville SC? I have one and can pick up ABC and Fox, but not the HD versions, it says the digital signal strength is too low. The antenna is big and has a radius of 65 miles.

Yeah, using a CM 3020 + 7777 amp, I get NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS + FOX. I live behind the Merovan Center off Woodruff Rd. I find that the direction of the antenna is critical. I don't have a compass reading on my direction, but will get it if you'd like.

Anyone picking up ABC HD or FOX HD with an OTA (directional) in Greenville SC? I have one and can pick up ABC and Fox, but not the HD versions, it says the digital signal strength is too low. The antenna is big and has a radius of 65 miles.

I live off East Butler, and have a cheap Radio Shack 15-2160 antenna that is literally lying on my porch. With this, with no problem, I can very reliably pick up all the local HD channels except for WASV and WBSC (which I believe are still operating at low power).

If I mount the antenna on a mast, I can also pull in some of the Charlotte stations.

Has anyone heard any news on when/if Charter is going to get any more HD locals? Don't have a receiver and an antenna (and won't be able to shell out the cash for them anytime soon).

Most of the programming I watch is on ABC and FOX. I know ABC is pretty much a lost cause with WLOS, but still had hopes for getting FOX added.

I haven't heard anything, but if you're curious, it might be worth contacting the station directly and asking if there's any progress. Charter won't be able to tell you anything just because there are so many buffers between the people who know things and the people who pick up the phones/answer e-mails.

I know ABC is pretty much a lost cause...

Very punny!

Anyone picking up ABC HD or FOX HD with an OTA (directional) in Greenville SC? I have one and can pick up ABC and Fox, but not the HD versions, it says the digital signal strength is too low. The antenna is big and has a radius of 65 miles.

I can pick both of those stations up, although WLOS can give me trouble sometimes. I live off Batesville Rd. I suggest getting a preamp to boost your signal. I think the CM 7777 is a great unit and many people use it here. It is a two part amp with a preamp that attaches as close to the antenna as possible, and then a power unit that you attach in-line, but somewhere there is power (usually inside the house just prior to splitting the signal to the different TVs). Don't get one of the cheap one piece amps that are available at rat shack or the hardware stores. You probably won't find the CM7777 locally, but will have to buy it on-line.

sic0048
What kind of antenna are you using?

I agree with sic0048 regarding the CM7777, but also urge you to be sure you do not overload your receiver with the Metro Area signal strength from your location to the transmitters on the SC/NC state line. The CM7777 can handle a ton of RF, but too much at the front end of the tuner can present other problems. (With the 7777 you can pad down the UHF and VHF seperately and at different levels.)

From Greenville you have very little, other than Parris Mountain, to block line of site reception for your area stations.

I live in Greenville, I can get WLOS clearly, but not WLOS HD, I thought the signal was sent from the same tower. If I can get the regular channel with an OTA why can't I get the HD channel?
Dumbfounded,
Tony

bloodta
What HD receiver are you using and what HD signals do you receive.
Both the WLOS analog (13) and the DT signals originate from the tower on Mt. Pisgah, along with the UNCTV analog (33) and DT (25) signals. Knowing your equipment lineup will assist others in answering your questions.

sic0048
What kind of antenna are you using?

I have an older Radio Shack UHF/VHF aggi style antenna. I think it was the second from the largest available at the time. I bought it about 9 years ago, long before HD, but it obviously works great.

My wife and I have never had cable or satelite, we've always watched OTA. So having a powerful antenna was important.

While there may not be many large obstructions like Paris Mountain around, people's reception will vary greatly with the smaller obstructions like trees and buildings. Multipath is still my biggest problem, especially getting WLOS-DT. If it is a windy day, I'll have a many drop outs. On a calm day, I'll get a rock solid signal with absolutely no drop outs. It drives me crazy when I'm getting dropouts. Rotating the antenna slightly can help sometimes, but won't eliminate all dropouts on a windy day.

Bloodta - As far as why you might be getting the analog signal, but not the DT signal is two fold. The DT signal is broadcast on a different frequency and power, so it is doesn't have the range of the analog signal. Secondly, as I just mentioned above, the DT signal is more prone to breakups and signal loss from multipath and other issues. With the digital signal, it's either on or off. An analog signal will display a lot of noise before you loose the signal, you don't get than margin of error with a digital signal. Apparently, you are not getting a stable enough DT signal to display it. I think with the preamp and other tweaks (a rotor for example for fine tuning your antenna's direction) you should be able to receive the signal.

Multpath is a major problem in the digital era; to a great extent because viewers tolerated ghost images in watching analog television. In the DT age, it does cause both pixelization and loss of pictures. Probably few receive DT signals through as many trees as I do and yet I have very stable reception. I experience seasonal changes, in fall and spring, and now am having some problems receiving DT 25 from Pisgah using my regular UHF CM 4-bay antenna and I have to use my back-up attic mounted large all-band RS antenna. Therefore I have to use an antenna A/B switch if I want to watch a stable UNCTV telecast.
The 4-bay CM antenna--and the better 8-bay--has proven over and over to be very useful in receiving muti-path prone signals in this area. There is, however, a new generation DT/HD receiver that was designed for multi-path problems, such as in the canyons of major cities. Early testers raved about the receiver (from Zenith/LG (Zenith was a pioneer in DT).
Wind and rain just is not a proven problem in the DT era. Wind swaying a pine tree may be a different issue because the pines tend to present some very unusual problems in UHF transmission paths...much more so that any other trees. (Ask the GM who put KRIV-UHF on the air in Houston years ago!)
Review the several major forums historically regarding DT reception, and you will find many experienced station chief engineers commenting on signal loss due to user misunderstanding the use of RF amplifiers and stacking antennas...and the use of poorly designed antennas. Generally speaking, this forum has good information about the local reception problems, even though some comments have been misleading regarding the effectiveness of an RF amplifier. I would rather start solving a low signal problem with a higher gain antenna than to use RF amplification...and only use an amplifier if you have proven to have a low signal problem (usually for an signal path in excess of 35-45 miles.) Higher gain antennas tend to reject side-lobe, bounced multipath signals as an added benefit.

I have a question for you guys out there: Is now a good time to sign up for D*tv? I have read alot about new Recievers coming out in the near future and locals for 12 top areas with the rest by 2007. I know i'm sick of watching what stupid football games they cover around this area and would love the ST package.

I'm a D* subscriber myself but I don't subscribe to ST. It's way too expensive and I've heard the PQ is not that great anyway. The HDNet college games are good, though, and ESPN-HD and ESPN2-HD are pretty decent PQ and have had about 1 college HD game per week each. I'm assuming you are interested in HDTV. I wouldn't let the upcoming conversion to MPEG4 stop you from going D* necessarily. I bought a used Hughes HTL-HD on ebay for around 150 bucks.

I guess it depends on how good the cable offerings are from Charter. I have zip HDTV from Charter here and it won't be changing any time soon I'm afraid.

bloodta
What HD receiver are you using and what HD signals do you receive.
Both the WLOS analog (13) and the DT signals originate from the tower on Mt. Pisgah, along with the UNCTV analog (33) and DT (25) signals. Knowing your equipment lineup will assist others in answering your questions.

I have a Toshiba HD Built-in TV (52HM94) I can get CBS and NBC and PBS all in HD OTA, I can get Analog Fox and Analog ABC OTA, but not ABC or FOX HD. I'm using an RCA directional ANT 3036x and/or DBF multidirectional.
Tony

Tony
I assume that the PBS you receive is the SCTV channel 9, and not WUNF-25 on Mt. Pisgah.
I also assume that you have rescanned for HD/DT signals recently with the Toshiba, and that you have tried carefully aiming your antenna for each scan for the missing stations.
My only other suggestion is that you take a look at this website for proper orientation and an implied signal strength for each station from your address:
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Address.aspx
Otherwise, if you believe you have no major obstructions, the missing stations must be based on problems in the antenna/lead-in setup. If you are receiving a strong ghost free signal from WLOS 13, it is hard to find logic in why you do not receive a very good WLOS-DT signal.
Hopefully others will have suggestions.

Good luck

I have a Toshiba HD Built-in TV (52HM94) I can get CBS and NBC and PBS all in HD OTA, I can get Analog Fox and Analog ABC OTA, but not ABC or FOX HD. I'm using an RCA directional ANT 3036x and/or DBF multidirectional.
Tony

What is a "DBF multidirectional". Do you mean a DB4 from Antennasdirect?
Do you have them combined and if so how?

The RCA antenna you mention should perform well at VHF frequencies but will underperform somewhat for UHF. The DB4 should be better for UHF if that's what you have. UHF reception requires more precise aiming than VHF. All of the digitals in the area are not broadcasting from the same location and you'll need to take that into account. Assuming that's the case, you would need to diplex them with a uhf/vhf diplexer (or a preamp with one internally) to prevent mulitpath produced by similar frequencies being received by different antennas on the same downlead. This would then make the RCA VHF-only and the DB4 UHF-only.



The DB4 isn't really multidirectional, either, and that's a good thing. Multidirectional antennas don't work. It will require fairly accurate aiming.

This all assumes that you have tried the RCA alone first, properly aimed, and have been unsuccessful. It might be simpler to stay with one wideband antenna and even consider putting up a rotator if the problem is simply a matter of aiming.

What is a "DBF multidirectional". Do you mean a DB4 from Antennasdirect?
Do you have them combined and if so how?

The RCA antenna you mention should perform well at VHF frequencies but will underperform somewhat for UHF. The DB4 should be better for UHF if that's what you have. Assuming that's the case, you would need to diplex them with a uhf/vhf diplexer (or a preamp with one internally) to prevent mulitpath produced by similar frequencies being received by different antennas on the same downlead. This would then make the RCA VHF-only and the DB4 UHF-only.

The DB4 isn't really multidirectional, either, and that's a good thing. Multidirectional antennas don't work. It will require fairly accurate aiming.

I live in Paris Mountain State Park. There are some hills in the way possibly. Yeah, it's the DB4 from antennasdirect. They're not connected, I use them separately.

If they're on separate downleads, then I'd say use the DB4 to go for WLOS as well as FOX although I think they will be in different directions for you from Paris Mountain. Have you tried a preamp?

If they're on separate downleads, then I'd say use the DB4 to go for WLOS as well as FOX although I think they will be in different directions for you from Paris Mountain. Have you tried a preamp?

I've actually packed up the DB4 to send it back. With the RCA 3036X antenna I can pick up Analog ABC perfectly, it looks way better than it does on cable. I guess I'll have to get it as high as possible.

Heres a question for Foxeng or Bob Davis. i noticed that WYFF and WSPA are using widescreen flat panel displays on their sets. Is it possible for their SD studio cameras to output in 16X9 and send out a 16X9picture on their DT stations?

Is WLOS-DT at full strength yet? Maybe when they are I can get it then.

Heres a question for Foxeng or Bob Davis. i noticed that WYFF and WSPA are using widescreen flat panel displays on their sets. Is it possible for their SD studio cameras to output in 16X9 and send out a 16X9picture on their DT stations?

If they have their 16:9 sets configured the way we do (we do not have 16:9 cameras on our set either), they are just stretched with the center portion of the picture expanded/zoomed. We can set the TV to do stretch and a modified stretch that will stretch the ends while leaving the center of the picture in a 4:3 mode.

bloodta
What did Antennaweb have to say about your needs for receiving WLOS? The reduced power that WLOS is operating on at this time is very insignificant and in most cases it will not improve the chances of receiving its full power signal if there is no signal lock at this time.

I note from a recent comment from you that you seem to be on the south side of Parris Mountain. That is the location of one of WLOS' major translators, improving its analog coverage of Greenville. Just to make sure, are you able to receive the main 13 transmission, or are you receiving the Parris Mt. translator. (I forget the channel number of the translator. And, a lot has changed since I was involved in upgrading the many translators the station once operated. So I assume the translator is still there.)

bloodta
What did Antennaweb have to say about your needs for receiving WLOS? The reduced power that WLOS is operating on at this time is very insignificant and in most cases it will not improve the chances of receiving its full power signal if there is no signal lock at this time.

I note from a recent comment from you that you seem to be on the south side of Parris Mountain. That is the location of one of WLOS' major translators, improving its analog coverage of Greenville. Just to make sure, are you able to receive the main 13 transmission, or are you receiving the Parris Mt. translator. (I forget the channel number of the translator. And, a lot has changed since I was involved in upgrading the many translators the station once operated. So I assume the translator is still there.)

I am able to get the main 13 transmission. As for the antennaweb results, when I punch in my exact address, it makes no mention of WLOS DT (13-1) or FOX DT (21-1) for that matter.
Are there any plans for digital translator around here?

That, unfortunately, is antennaweb's way of saying you are in the shadow of Parris Mountain. They use the same Langley-Rice prediction of signal strength that the FCC uses. From my zip code, it tells me I cannot receive WSPA, but it is usually my best, most reliable signal. Most of this zip is on the north side of the mountains, but I am just over the ridge.) I will dig out my topo maps and take a look at the problems you face.

Re digital translators, the FCC has not yet made decisions regarding continuing the use of the translators and converting them to digital. I expect the pressure to release the VHF low band will really mount now that Kathrina illustrated the need for vastly increased communications for emergencies, and that will wipe out many existing translators. Also, the jury is still out on the need for translators in the digital era.

Re digital translators, the FCC has not yet made decisions regarding continuing the use of the translators and converting them to digital. I expect the pressure to release the VHF low band will really mount now that Kathrina illustrated the need for vastly increased communications for emergencies, and that will wipe out many existing translators. Also, the jury is still out on the need for translators in the digital era.
Thanks for the help, let me know what you find.
Thanks
Tony

They didn't "flip the switch" for Alias or Night Stalker.

[QUOTE= Also, the jury is still out on the need for translators in the digital era.[/QUOTE]

I have been wondering how that would be handled. In the far western counties of NC I have found no trace of any digital signals using large outdoor antennas. We can only get analog translator signals. And due to the terrain, satellite reception is impossible also. Is it likely that all of these residents in the coves of WNC will be without any television reception at all as we move fully into the digital era?

That, unfortunately, is antennaweb's way of saying you are in the shadow of Parris Mountain. They use the same Langley-Rice prediction of signal strength that the FCC uses. From my zip code, it tells me I cannot receive WSPA, but it is usdually my best, most reliable signal. Most this zip is on the north side of the mountains, but I am just over the ridge.) I will dig out my topo maps and take a look at the problems you face.

If you use http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp you can get all the stations digital or analog within whatever radius you define as well as compass bearing and distance.

http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ is a good place to determine the lat/long where you live. Magnetic variation link is available through 2150.com but is probably around -5 in Greenville.

cpcat:
Good info. There is a program for mapping the transmission path from RX to TX. It was costly, and I have not found a free version. Have you?

They didn't "flip the switch" for Alias or Night Stalker.
I'll send the station a note.

Re Digital translators:
There IS some DT translator testing taking place, including special applications in the Salt Lake City (Utah and Wyoming) area with impressive results for low power over long range line-of-site transmission of multiple programs to remote areas. I have not seen recent reports on results.

cpcat:
Good info. There is a program for mapping the transmission path from RX to TX. It was costly, and I have not found a free version. Have you?

Delorme Topo USA is what I've seen. I think it's around 50 dollars though. I haven't come across anything free online. Here's an example from Delorme: this is from a fellow AVS'er.

Sorry, that didn't work.

Here's one. On the right is WLOS/WUNF and on the left is my house.

Sorry, that didn't work.

Here's one. On the right is WLOS/WUNF and on the left is my house.

YIKES! Can you say NO fresnel zone clearance?

foxeng
What do you use?

cpcat :
Thanks for posting that. It may or may not include earth curvature, fresnel and bending, but it does illustrate to readers what they may be experiencing. A former translator and transmitter engineer did a transmission path profile for me "manually," taking weeks to complete it! And he had years of experience in preparing FCC filings.

The Delorme doesn't take into account the earth's curvature.

What is "Fresnel zone clearance"?

Re digital translators, the FCC has not yet made decisions regarding continuing the use of the translators and converting them to digital. I expect the pressure to release the VHF low band will really mount now that Kathrina illustrated the need for vastly increased communications for emergencies, and that will wipe out many existing translators. Also, the jury is still out on the need for translators in the digital era.
Check out these links:
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-251978A1.pdf

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/FCC-04-220A1.pdf

Re digital translators, n4fw points out that the FCC issued statment in support for digital translators on Sept. 30, 2004, with the intent to "preserve" the original concept for their use...and in some cases perhaps to increase their use. It is lengthy, but the two pdf documents are worth reading if you reside in an area that seems "underserved" by the primary transmissions of stations in your area.

cpcat:
This is getting well over my head. Re Fresnel:

A solid object in the path of RF waves creates a shadow behind it and usually no reception is possible. However, there is an Knife Edge Effect that is observed and the transmission path is bent (slightly) as it passes over a mountain ridge or a large building, etc. Even a treed mountain ridge can bend RF sufficiently to provide reception, but a clear ridge is better. I use knife edge reception for a couple of stations with very good results. Also, a building, water tank, and other obstructions create a shadowed areas behind them, but the signal also bends around the obstruction and at a certain distance "rejoins" in "ripples" making the signal available again, but with a need to search for the strongest placement of the antenna. Fresnel describes the ripples.
I said too much and will rely on experts such as foxeng that are currently involved in the DT transition to make corrections and add to this.

Thanks. I googled it too. I got the impression that in addition to what you said it is also an area of signal attenuation that occurs from objects that are near the path of LOS. In other words, even if you technically have LOS to the tower, the signal can still be attenuated by intervening objects even if they are *close* to blocking LOS.

This, I assume, is associated with the knife-edge diffraction you mentioned. It's over my head too but I continue to learn. :)

foxeng
What do you use?

I do not understand the question?

re: Fresnel zone clearance

I will try and keep it simple since Jerry has given a technical explanation.

In RF, as Jerry has said, it has to do with objects in the way of an RF signal. The zone is an area above and just into an object that you might still be able to receive a signal, but it may not be stable or strong signal due to reflections or atmospheric or a number of other things. It does have to do with the curvature of the Earth from the transmitted location to the receive location. From the chart that was posted earlier, it seems that there is NO fresnel zone clearance so in theory, and I guess in this case practice, no signal is possible because of Paris Mt. The higher you go in frequency, the more prevalent fresnel zone clearance becomes. In VHF low band (2-6) FZC is not that important. In VHF high band (7-13) distance and power becomes a factor and for UHF, if you don't' have the clearance, you don't have the signal.

That is it in a layman's nutshell.

foxeng:
My question is, what computer program do you use to plot the terrain tx to rx transmission paths, if any.
Thanks for your imput regarding obstructions. The bottom line is that the "knife edge effect" has given me very reliable UHF digital reception across a ridge that is blocking my line of site reception by some 150' or more whereas VHF & UHF analog signals are completely unusable. But it took a lot of searching for the best antenna site.

Re WLOS:
The best I can determine is that WLOS will rely on cable and satellite for filling all the blind areas to its Mt. Pisgah transmissions, perhaps relying on digital on-channel repeaters in the future...yet will wait for more stabilization in the digital transition to make decisions. Meanwhile, it no longer has many of its original translators, including the one that once served Greenville.

I suppose that the television reception future in Almond NC in the coves with no view of the satellites is a bit cloudy.

As the antennaweb report shows, no digital and nothing but translators.

blue - uhf W69CN 69 FOX BRYSON CITY NC 97° 8.9 69
blue - uhf W56AG 56 PBS FRANKLIN, ETC. NC 111° 14.0 56
blue - uhf W66BU 66 FOX SYLVA NC 112° 14.0 66
blue - uhf W46AX 46 PBS BRYSON CITY NC 70° 4.5 46
blue - vhf W11AN 11 CBS BRYSON CITY, ETC. NC 97° 8.9 11
blue - vhf W05AR 5 NBC BRYSON CITY, ETC. NC 97° 8.9 5
violet - vhf W03AK 3 NBC ELA, ETC. NC 97° 8.9 3
violet - vhf W08AN 8 ABC BRYSON CITY, ETC. NC 70° 4.5 8

At least the weather radio works there.....

Oxb :
I think Congress has made a strong effort over the years to maintain a free OTA system of broadcast and to implement technics to improve service to "under served" homes (SHVERA). It seems you have chosen to live in one of the places both legislators and inventors have overlooked, i.e. areas with no clear view of southern skies and valleys surrounded by mountains...and softening interest on the part of broadcasters in use of translators, especially in low density areas. I think you should petition both the FCC and your Congressmen and Senators to look for solutions to problems such as those you face.

It is not a "real" problem for me in that I have been referring to a second home on Fontana Lake. We have had it for over 30 years. Over the last few years, I have built a sort of MATV system that serves our house and guest house and a neighbors house out there. I knew of the digital transition and had "assumed" that eventually the translators would be converted over to digital. That is why I spent no $ on modulators and used carefully selected antennas and CM Join-Tennas and amplifiers. It works quite well for analog NTSC. I have also helped some of the full time residents in the area with the same lack of a satellite view situations. I am actually more concerned about this situation for them. I will encourage them to contact their representatives and the FCC. I will also do so, even if they may have less sympathy for a second home owner.

I do want to thank yo Mr. Birdwell for your informative contributions to this forum. It is appreciated.

foxeng:
My question is, what computer program do you use to plot the terrain tx to rx transmission paths, if any.

I don't. They are too expensive for TV. >$3k per seat. I do them by hand with a topo map and graph paper.

Thanks for your imput regarding obstructions. The bottom line is that the "knife edge effect" has given me very reliable UHF digital reception across a ridge that is blocking my line of site reception by some 150' or more whereas VHF & UHF analog signals are completely unusable. But it took a lot of searching for the best antenna site.

You can do all of the "science" on this stuff you want, but the truth is, there is always a small element of black magic in it. If it works for you, then go with it. You can't argue with success like success.

I live on the north side of Anderson, and am using a large mast-mounted Radio Shack antenna inputting to my HD DirecTivo. I get NBC HD great, and when I set-up the antenna a few weeks back I got both ABD and CBS above 70%. Now for some reason 7-1 is in the 50's and 13-1 is in the 60's. I can see both channels fine, but when recording HD on my Tivo I get alot of pixelization on these 2 channels. I have never been actually watching the set at the time to see if the signal drops out or if the Tivo is messing up (I'm getting a new one just in cast that is it.) First I will try to re-direct the antenna in case it moved slightly, but if that fails what would you suggest to try to boost the signal up that last 20% or so I need to get reliable service? In the past I have never used an amp that seemed to have any effect. I would prefer not to mount anything that requires power up on the mast, but inside the house is OK. Thanks!
Stephen

edit - If I were to use a pre-amp such as the Titan 7777, is it a problem that my RG-6 shielding is all grounded? How would the preamp receive power?

While north of Anderson is fairly close to the transmitters for the area stations--especially WYFF and WHNS--a pre-amp may be a solution. The CM 7777 is a good choice. The power supply is as close to the receiver as possible, and the pre-amp is mounted at the antenna. Low voltage power is sent through the coax. It is wise to have the shield grounded (as the mast should be.) Are there any other obstacles blocking your line of site to the towers?
Otherwise, I note that "ducting" of distant signals has disrupted DT transmissions in nearby areas in recent weeks and that should go away soon. Also, in my experience, there are seasonal changes, especially summer to fall and spring to summer that cause some degradation of signals, but uaually not to the point of complete distruption of signals. Wait a few weeks before making major changes.

Nothing around here really, fairly flat and no tall buildings anywhere around. There are a few smallish sweetgum trees fairly close to the antenna that I plan on removing eventually, ( I hate sweetgum trees) but I dont think they would be enough to block the signal. I am assuming the end of the antenna that opens with the shorter elements is the pointing direction, not the end with the very long elements? I do get WYFF very well, and am hoping a pre-amp will not overdrive that one? Also I am looking in the HD-Tivo section to see about what signal strength is needed for good reception with no pixelization.

edit - If I were to use a pre-amp such as the Titan 7777, is it a problem that my RG-6 shielding is all grounded? How would the preamp receive power?

The power is sent up the center conductor along with the signal. There is a special circuit that allows the power to be connected to the center conductor. Yes, ALLOWS be sure your shield on your coax is grounded.

Can I use a signal booster to get better reception? Through Charter I get about 84% signal strength. CBS HD through Charter is 84% CBS HD through OTA is between 94-100%. What gives? I need a spectrum analyzer, to see if I can pick up FOX HD and ABC HD OTA.

I can now pick up FOX HD and now WLOS HD, I just had to scan the channels again. Yes, I'm an idiot, I get about 86% for FOX and 76% ABC, and the antenna is pointing in one direction. If I raise it higher, would that help the reception?

More hilarity from WLOS...how come Larry, Moe, and Curly up there can't figure out how to flash their station identification without momentarily switching back to SD?

It's very annoying to turn on a show at the top of the hour, only to watch it flip-flop from HD to SD and back to HD just so they can show their info. I realize they legally have to show it, but can't they do it seamlessly? No other stations seem to have this problem.

More hilarity from WLOS...how come Larry, Moe, and Curly up there can't figure out how to flash their station identification without momentarily switching back to SD?

It's very annoying to turn on a show at the top of the hour, only to watch it flip-flop from HD to SD and back to HD just so they can show their info. I realize they legally have to show it, but can't they do it seamlessly? No other stations seem to have this problem.


I have asked the question, but I have not received an answer as of yet.

I went ahead and ordered the 7777 from Warren electronics. I tried to re-aim my antenna last night using some 2 way radios and the wife's help, ended up droping a few % into the low 50's and losing fox altogether! LOL Thats what I get for doubting my first attempt. Just going to record off the sattelite instead of OTA til the pre-amp comes in. I'll keep you guys posted if you care.
Stephen

Without combing back thru this thread, I need some advice....

Charter came and installed a Moxi DVR today, and so far I'm less than impressed. The PQ seems much worse, and the menus seem unnecessarily complicated. The main deal is the setting of 1080i puts out a signal that locks my 51" Sony into HD mode, so ALL channels have black bars on the sides. On top of being 2 hours late, bringing a defective box, then getting a working box out, the main office was having trouble re-activating all my movie and HD channels, so I haven't seen them yet. I had to leave for work, so we'll see how things are when I get home around 10pm.

Is the DVI output not enabled? We had to switch to component cables to get a picture.

BTW, the reason I'm asking you guys is that I know many of you have them, and the installer said " I really don't have a clue about these things". sheesh.

Is the DVI output not enabled?It is through some providers. Not through Charter, tho'.

The main deal is the setting of 1080i puts out a signal that locks my 51" Sony into HD mode, so ALL channels have black bars on the sides.On the Moxi, go to the Setup area and select HDTV Settings. Check "480i", and the material will be passed through in its native resolution.

the main office was having trouble re-activating all my movie and HD channels, so I haven't seen them yet.Likewise when I had my Moxi 'installed'. They added the "control signals" (I forget the exact terminology they used) for the Moxi but didn't take away the control signals for my previous HD STB -- the two were conflicting, and once they killed the signals for my old STB, everything worked flawlessly. It took numerous phone calls to straighten this out -- maybe this info can help you push them in the right direction, if it's not taken care of already when you get back.

I've had my Moxi for just shy of a year now, so if you have any questions, I can try to answer them. There's also a very, very lengthy thread in the HDTV Recorders forum.

I have a lot of hardwood trees in my receiving path, but don't find they are a problem for either UHF or VHF. If you do have problem with WYFF (and other VHF) the CM 7777 has individual inputs from the VHF and UHF antennas if you want to set it that way. Then you have the option of padding down the strongest signals and RS has them in stock.
Yes, the smaller elements are the UHF elements and are to be facing the transmitters. Many antennas allow the UHF and VHF signals to be seperated, but a splitter (water proof) will seperate the signals if you elect to use the 7777 with two inputs (optional).

Thanks Adam...you da man.

Seems like all is well after a few calls to Charter.

Are you getting the games listed in the manual? I can't find them anywhere!

The FCC has posted a revised set of first-round DTV channel designations, superseding the one from June 23:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-05-2649A2.pdf

Noteworthy is that WLOS is listed as returning to ch 13. They must have satisfactorily resolved the conflict with WRCB in Chattanooga.

As far as I can tell, the only local station missing from this list is WYFF which is going to the second round.

Station / current analog / current digital, with final digital channel in bold:

WSPA / 7 / 53
WLOS / 13 / 56
WHNS / 21 / 57
WASV / 62 / 45
WBSC / 40 / 14 (now actually using 56-2)
WGGS / 16 / 35
WRET / 49 / 43
WNTV / 29 / 9
WUNF / 33 / 25

While I was at it, I looked up other stations that are more or less in my range:

Charlotte:

WBTV / 3 / 23
WCNC / 36 / 22
WSOC / 9 / 34
WCCB / 18 / 27
WWWB / 55 / 39
WJZY / 46 / 47
WAXN / 64 / 50
WTVI / 42 / 11
WUNG / 48 / 44

Columbia:

WLTX / 19 / 17
WIS / 10 / 41
WOLO / 25 / 8
WACH / 57 / 48
WBHQ / 63 / 39
WRZB / 47 / --
WRLK / 35 / 32

Augusta:

WFXG / 54 / 51
WJBF / 6 / 42
WRDW / 12 / 31
WAGT / 26 / 30

Are you getting the games listed in the manual? I can't find them anywhere!I was. I haven't tried them out in a while, so that feature might have disappeared. I'll give it a look tonight.

Are you getting the games listed in the manual? I can't find them anywhere!Yeah, I am -- press the orange Moxi button and scroll over -- it's sandwiched between "Ticker" and "Settings" for me.

not on mine. Maybe I'll call Charter and ask about it. I think the wife would enjoy it once and again..

Can anyone recommend an OTA rig installer? D* installed their pos airplane wing on my roof and CBS is not coming in very well.

I need a 40' ladder to get up to my roof, so this is not something I can/will do myself.

I have a CM bowtie to swap it out with, but I need an installer. Any help out there?

I looks as if Sinclair does not want their stations operating at full power. WLOS and WBSC are yet to go full power and they applied for extensions for their Special Temporary Authority with WBSC getting approval already. You would think all technical issues would be resolved by now. Regarding the FCC Channel Elections, the pdf displays "tenative" elections. WLOS still has not gottten approval to go back to 13. I think the list does include some stations who gave up on their first elections and kept their current DTV channel.

You'd think that since Sinclair is being such an ass about cable carriage, they'd make OTA their top priority. But at every step along the way, they've shown no signs of doing so. Instead, they're being dragged—kicking and screaming—into this new era of television.

At this point, nothing would surprise me with WLOS. I guess we should all just be happy that they broadcast in color. And who knows how long it took for them to make THAT switch.

Did anybody else's Tivo fail to get Lost last night?

All I can say about WLOS is "Thank God for waivers".

I think that FCC should set an example by cancelling the license of Sinclair for not meeting the deadlines and give the option of broadcasting ABC to someone else. Sinclair should realize that they do not own the broadcast spectrum, the public does. Maybe that will teach them a lesson. But with their political connections that they have, I do not see that happening.

At this point, nothing would surprise me with WLOS. I guess we should all just be happy that they broadcast in color. And who knows how long it took for them to make THAT switch.

I remember asking my father back in the 60's (I was 8 or 9 at the time) after we had a color television why the program was not in color. That was after the network promo had just stated "The Virginian, next in COLOR!" I guess that Wometco was a little slow with the $ to WLOS back then. :)

Regarding the FCC Channel Elections, the pdf displays "tenetive" elections. WLOS still has not gottten approval to go back to 13.

OK... I was assuming that there had been some progress because as far as I recall, WLOS didn't appear on the previous version of that list, from June 23. That version is now gone from the FCC Web site, apparently.

Now that the Braves HD channel is finished for the season, I wonder if Charter's going to direct that bandwidth towards something else. If I remember correctly, Discovery HD Theater popped up on the line-up last year when Braves HD went off.

The only nationals Charter offers that we don't have are Cinemax-HD and Starz-HD, and although I wouldn't mind being able to timeshift more of the locals in high definition (Fox, especially), I'd settle for either of those.

Well I received and installed my 7777 preamp, and now get 4, 13 and 21 all in the upper 80's to 95. WLOS I basically get nothing from. It is in the 40s and I cant see it at all. If I aim the antenna at WLOS, I can get it in the 70's or so, making all of the other channels worthless. Has anyone gotten a waiver from WLOS? How do I go about doing this with DirecTv?

Well I received and installed my 7777 preamp, and now get 4, 13 and 21 all in the upper 80's to 95. WLOS I basically get nothing from. It is in the 40s and I cant see it at all. If I aim the antenna at WLOS, I can get it in the 70's or so, making all of the other channels worthless. Has anyone gotten a waiver from WLOS? How do I go about doing this with DirecTv?

Since WLOS is not an ABC owned and operated station (O&O), and assuming you are eligible for non-HD locals via D*, I'm afraid you (and me) are out of luck.

Your options are OTA, Cable, wait for HD LIL (local HD stations from D*). HD LIL is rolling out with the MPEG4 conversion and will hit the top 12 markets in the next year. We'll follow sometime after that, hopefully in '07.

If you can find some way around this, let me know. :)

You might consider a rotator in the meantime.

Thanks cpcat, I figured that was my sad situation. Even with a rotor WLOS isn't strong enough to reliably TIVO. The receiver in the HR10-250 isn't that great.

I've heard that some have success using the RS variable attenuator with the HR10-250. It seems to be particularly susceptible to mulitpath and the attenuator can knock down the reflected signal enough so the receiver can get a better lock. It may not work, but it's cheap and probably worth a try.

Hey Fellas!

HDTV/ OTA DT newbie here. Iam in Waterloo (Laurens County) about 40 miles or so Southeast of Greenville. I have a Dish 811 rec, I hooked my antenna up to the receiver, and I get almost all of the local DT stations except for WYFF. Most of the stations are getting a signal of about 55 to 70%. Can I add a pre-amp to my setup to make these stations come in with a stronger signal, and will it enable me to receive WYFF? I even get WLOS, for which I thought was farther away than WYFF. I did add frequency number 59 (WYFF) to my DT channels, but the strentgh is only 49%, it will sometimes jump up to 55%, but wont lock. Any and all info will be greatly appreciated!!

Russ

Charter now has PBS HD (WNTV) on channel 788.

One of my SA TiVos had a message that MAXHD was now at 779, but there is no evidence of that. Maybe soon? No TiVo message concerning PBS, but it is up.

(OT: Tennis channel SD now showing on 321)

Russ,

I think adding a preamp (like the CM7777) would work very well for you. Do you have the ability to rotate your antenna? You may not need it being that far South (most towers are going to be North of you) to pick up the Greenville Stations, but it might help dial in one or two to get a stronger signal. You might also rotate 180 degree and pick up some of the Columbia Stations.

SpineRep:
I agree with above. You are the best candidate for use of a preamp that I seen in a long time...especially in that you are receiving a weak WYFF signal. What antenna are you using? An antenna upgrade may be the first step, and a rotor could give you many other choices. What is your elevation, and any obstacles in the transmission path?

Cinamax HD is now available on charter channel 779.

Also WNTV (ETV from Greenville) is now available on Channel 788

Thanks for the replies guys!!! Where can I find the CM7777 at? As far as what kind of antenna I have...?? I have no idea, I bought it a few years back when we built our home, I thought my wife (the pack rat) saved the paper work from it, but I can't find it. I do remember that it had the HDTV logo on the box. It is a huge antenna, it took up a good portion of one side of my garage. There aren't really any obstacles, no buildings taller than a single story, everything is pretty much wide open around me ( I live out in the boonies!). I never did put a rotor on it, I basically put it up there to catch a few analog locals back when I had Direct. It sounds like I definitely need to get a preamp!! Iam not distributing to any other TV so, I don't think I need a dist. amp.

Thanks again guys, if you could just tell me where I might be able to get the pre-amp at a decent price, I will most certainly appreciate it.

Russ

UNC-HD is now on Channel 788 on Charter-Asheville. Now, to see if it is 8:00 to 11:00 like OTA or 27/7 as it is on Time Warner systems.

It would be too much to hope for 783 and 786 to come to life.

UNC-HD is now on Channel 788 on Charter-Asheville. Now, to see if it is 8:00 to 11:00 like OTA or 27/7 as it is on Time Warner systems.Third time's the charm? :)

It was on when I got home around 5:30 PM, so...looks to be 24 hours.

UNC-HD is now on Channel 788 on Charter-Asheville. Now, to see if it is 8:00 to 11:00 like OTA or 27/7 as it is on Time Warner systems.


It went off at 11:00 :(

Hi Russ, welcome aboard! At least now I'm not the southernmost poster here any more. :)

Where can I find the CM7777 at?

I have a bookmark for http://www.warrenelectronics.com/ because someone mentioned it somewhere on these forums, but I've never ordered from them. At least not yet. I'll probably order the CM7777 myself sometime.

You might want to consider getting a rotor for your antenna. Even without a pre-amp, I can pick up most of the Charlotte and Columbia stations (some of them are marginal, though), and actually watch some of them regularly for local news etc. It's also nice to have alternate sources for the networks in case of bad weather or transmitter failures. You're a bit further from Charlotte and Columbia than I am, but a pre-amp would probably make up for that. You're also a bit closer to Augusta than I am, so you might be able to pick up something from there. I can only get WRDW, and only late at night with good weather. I'm a bit geographically challenged (hillside and trees) in that direction.

JT,
Thanks for the reply and the link! The CM7777 is definitely on my list of things to pick up! Am considering the rotor too, but probably down the road abit, my wife says we get enough channels as it is!! (imagine that..hehe) It's good to know there is someone else down here in the boonies, a buddy of mines family owns Bishop Tires there in Clinton, Iam sure you have heard of it. Thanks again!

Russ

Hi.
We recently relocated to Arden N.C and signed up with Dish network. Now we're looking to get
HD OTA. Does anyone have a recommendation for an installer in the area? I've tried the RCA
looking for a simple solution and it didn't work.
Thanks for any info.
Zaxdad

It seems as though all the antenna selection websites that I know of (antennaweb & titantv) provide a conservative prediction of HD stations expected to be received. Does anyone know of a site that provides a more liberal estimate?

Anyone else been having issues with Charter HD the last 2 nights? last night HD was pretty much unwatchable because of breaking up. The old miss gave me an earful about charter and how we need to get d* if this crap keeps up.

I've been having a lot of problems too -- and I'm in Simpsonville as well, for what that's worth. WYFF hasn't just been breaking up for me through Charter -- it periodically disappears outright. Completely black screen. Receiver blanks out. The other channels can get pretty blocky with lots of sound drop-outs, although it mostly seems to happen during prime time, and it's been like that for a short while for me. It's not consistent, and it's not pervasive enough for me to call Charter, but I might have to do that soon. I didn't watch anything last night, so I can't commenton that specifically.

I think they've upped the compression to accomodate the new channels too. Dunno if I'm just imagining that or not.

Also, for anyone else with the Moxi DVR -- are you getting programming data for Cinemax-HD and PBS-HD? I can't even tune into PBS-HD directly with the Moxi -- I have to go to 787 and channel-up or 793 and channel-down. Curious if it's just me or if it's a more widespread problem.

It seems as though all the antenna selection websites that I know of (antennaweb & titantv) provide a conservative prediction of HD stations expected to be received. Does anyone know of a site that provides a more liberal estimate?

http://www.2150.com/broadcast/default.asp

Put in your lat/lon and you'll get all the stations for whatever radius you specify.

Get your lat/lon here:http://terraserver.microsoft.com/ (just type in your address)

Magnetic variation should be around -5 in Greenville.

What's the deal with Cinemax HD, I have charter and I'm in Greenville, is it available yet? I get nothin'.

What's the deal with Cinemax HD, I have charter and I'm in Greenville, is it available yet? I get nothin'.I'm getting it here in Simpsonville on channel 779. A dumb question, but are you a Cinemax subscriber?

yep, im a Cinemax subscriber, not by choice, but because I get HBO.

I have lost the WLOS-DT signal tonight, Sunday. Have you?

I have lost the WLOS-DT signal tonight, Sunday. Have you?

Me to... darn you WLOS-DT, DARN YOUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Me to... darn you WLOS-DT, DARN YOUUUUU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I lost it too from Swannanoa, NC, Was looking forward to Desperate Housewives in HD. I heard they got approval for the lower frequency, could they be changing already?

What would the lower frequency mean for those of who are farther away? Are we screwed?

I lost both WLOS-DT and WHNS-DT. They're still out as I type this. Fortunately I could use WACH (Columbia) and WCCB (Charlotte) for the baseball game.

This weekend I finally bought a 32" Panasonic LCD to replace my ancient 27" CRT. Now I can really see what's coming out of my STB! :D Both the Panthers/Lions football game and the Sox/Angels baseball game looked terrific.

What would the lower frequency mean for those of who are farther away? Are we screwed?

I dont think so, but I do think some antennas are more sensitive to certain frequencies than others so that could affect you.

However I am only 25 miles from mt. pisgah and using an 8 bay antenna. I do get a signal strength of 49 but not enough to pull it in, I am usually at about 85-90%.

I have lost the WLOS-DT signal tonight, Sunday. Have you?


It is still out. Hopefully, they will be up for MNF tonight.

As for the "lower frequency" for WLOS, that must be a reference to their moving their digital signal from channel 56 to channel 13. But they're not going to do that until they shut down analog operations! (If they do move to 13 after all; there are issues with potential interference with a station in Chattanooga.)

In general, VHF signals propagate better around obstacles than UHF signals, because of longer wavelength, so most viewers would probably benefit from a switch to VHF. Also, to achieve a given range, a VHF transmitter requires less power than UHF.

bloodta:

If it is true that WLOS will move to Channel 13 DT, you may or may not be able to use a UHF-only antenna to receive the signal. Most UHF antennas receive a reduced signal level for top-of-the VHF band (10-13). If your current signal is marginal, you will need to add a VHF high band (7-13) antenna. But, currently Congress is considering an April 7, 2009 cutoff date for the switch-over to all-DT services. There is plenty of time for a decision, and for other changes that may affect your decision.

I lost both WLOS-DT and WHNS-DT.

I played around with this a bit when I went home for lunch today. The first thing I noticed that WYFF was gone, too. The WHNS problem turned out to be a PSIP glitch or something. When I told my STB to do a fresh channel scan, WHNS came back, but WLOS and WYFF didn't.

OK, football fans, I just found WLOS-DT is back on the air.

jtbell
I have not had problems with WYFF today (nor with WHNS.) DT4 looks good at the present time.

Apparently in my area of Greenville, according to the Charter customer rep, Cinemax HD is not available, go figure.