WESTERN CAROLINAS HDTV VIEWERS:

THIS THREAD “RESTARTS” THE WESTERN NORTH CAROLINAS HDTV THREAD, AND INCLUDES A SUMMARY OF PERTINENT INFORMATION FROM THAT FORUM.
THIS SHOULD MAKE SCANNING FOR INFORMATION EASIER.
There are several members contributing to information seen here, but there is no one specific person “in charge.” We encourage all who visit our site to acknowledge their presence and to summarize their HDTV / DT experience. Most station information is edited from emailed responses from station personnel.
Jerry Birdwell, Contributor

To all:
WESTERN CAROLINAS HDTV AND DT TELEVISION STATIONS --
Greenville, Spartanburg (SC), Asheville (NC), Anderson (SC) -- (Updated Sept. 2005):
This is a newly updated thread devoted to the Western Carolinas television markets. We are fortunate to have several station's personnel contribute information. This is revised during the week that all stations are required to begin full power operation, and a posting of your experience after this happens will be appreciated.

Market overview--The western portions of the Carolinas is designated by the FCC as a “hyphenate” market, with station transmitters serving the area generally clustered in a relatively narrow line along the NC and SC border from Mt. Pisgah to Caesar’s Head to Hogback. The forum rules now result in the new "Greenville, SC" heading.

The first step for a new comer to the HDTV experience is to get accurate information regarding antenna orientation by entering your address at: http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.asp

Western Carolinas DTV and HDTV stations as of June 2005 are:

WSPA/CBS (53) - Maps to 7-1 -- This station is at full power on Hogback Mountain (along with its Channel 7). This CBS affiliate was a pioneer in DT in the area, and now has an excellent signal used in passing on its network. It is owned by Media General, who also owns WASV-DT. (7-2 is local weather).

WYFF/NBC (59) -- Maps to 4-1, with NBC/Local weather on 4-2. Transmits from Caesar's Head, SC, at slightly reduced power. The Chief Engineer expects full power “no later than mid 2005.” DT transmission has been reliable since the first quarter of 2003.

WLOS/ABC (56) -- As of this date (July 2005) this station on Mt. Pisgah has install a new full power transmitter but may be operating at slightly reduced power. A new antenna has been installed. WLOS-DT maps to 13-1 and its sister station (a WB affiliate) from Anderson, SC, is retransmitted as 13-2.

WASV-62 (45) Maps as 62-1. – UPN Affiliation. Operated by WSPA full time on Channel 45 rebroadcasting its Channel 62 NTSC signal. Station is located south of Hendersonville, NC midway between WSPA and WYFF near the SC/NC border. HDTV date unknown. Operates at 48kW. Does not present an HD signal.

WESTERN CAROLINAS PUBLIC TELEVISION--Both Greenville's Channel 9 and Asheville's Channel 25 are excellent sources for PBS HDTV programs:

WUNF-33 (UNC-TV) (25). Maps to 33-1,2,3,4,5. Prior to 8:00 p.m., the station offers four channels of SD/DT programming, reserving 33-2 as the HD channel during Prime time. This nighttime HD eliminates 33-3,4,5. Transmits from the WLOS tower on Mt. Pisgah. Transmits at full authorized power and is reliable in keeping its viewers updated regarding any changes (usually by use of this thread.)

SCETV HDTV is on Channel 9 from Parris Mt., north of Greenville. It is the only VHF DT in the area, but is subject to co-channel interference in some locations. Maps to 29-1,2,3. HDTV is on 29-3, 24 hours a day. Visually, the signal often pixelizes due to bandwidth. The station promised to test 720p as a solution but has never done this. Engineering staff is reliable in reporting changes.


WHNS-FOX. DT 57. Maps as 21-1, with weather radar on 21-2. Both SD and DT transmitters are located on a very tall tower on Rich Mountain, NC, near Caesar's Head, SC. Fox HD began in January 2005.

Date of posting--Edited Sept. 2005. Prepared by J. Birdwell - [email]jbirdwe@bellsouth.net

Repeating useful information from original thread:
From:
bdenman
Advanced Member

Registered: Sep 2000
Location: Sumter SC
Posts: 660
Greetings,

Great to see some more Carolinians coming to visit here at AVS. If I may pass along some info.... some may be interested in the basic antenna information at www.starkelectronic.com and some may find this web site useful as well http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/kq6qv/.../comparing.html (compares a number of antenna's performance).

AVS has threads for several NC/SC areas including Charlotte and the TRIAD area in NC and Columbia, Myrtle Beach, and Charleston here in SC. Some may find the Cola and Charlotte threads of interest as many of you may be able to receive some of their signals. We are fortunate that we here at AVS have the participation of several station engineers (both Cola and Charlotte) who have been most helpful. Sharing information about reception is obviously one of the goals here and its great to now have your area's thread.

Some may be interested in visiting www.nchdtv.com which is a web site devoted to primarily to NC HDTV users but also has info on Greenville/Spartanburg and Asheville. Charles Layno runs that site and also currently manages a listserv that originally originated in Rock Hill SC (by the late Bill Taylor who created the Carolina HDTV Users List) and Charles has created a new one to keep the idea going.

Welcome to AVS and good luck!

Bruce

The audio problems on WSPA-DT continue, the SEC game and the NFL game today both had a constant ticking sound on the audio feed.When I switched over to WBTV-DT(Charlotte) the ticking sound was not there,so I would assume that it is a local problem.

CSI wasn't in HD tonight. Is the station having problems with their equipment?? I know the audio on the game was terrible yesterday, so I figured they just decided not to flip the switch. This is the third time in the last few weeks that I've wanted to watch something and it hasn't been in HD.

Originally posted by Fragman
CSI wasn't in HD tonight. Is the station having problems with their equipment?? I know the audio on the game was terrible yesterday, so I figured they just decided not to flip the switch. This is the third time in the last few weeks that I've wanted to watch something and it hasn't been in HD.

It was in HD on WFMY-DT in Greensboro.

I called Sunday and WSPA is having problems with their HD equipment. It was just fine last night on WBTV-DT Charlotte.Most everyone in the upstate with a decent outdoor antenna should have no problem picking up WBTV-DT because of the location of their tower.

All: Regarding WSPA DT, here is an answer from Ron Peeler:

"As you know we are having trouble with the audio lip-sync. Well, the CBS receiver was bad. We have the newer CBS receiver, but are having a very difficult time getting Dolby 5.1 audio to lip-sync also. Last night we upconverted all prime and are working on this problem today. Hope to be back on tonight with HD."

SCETV is changing our PSIP data in regards to the major channel number designator. We will no longer virtually map our DTV services to our analog channels. All DTV channels will reflect their actual RF channel number. A rescan in your receiver may be required. This will immediately effect the following stations:

WRLK-DT to 32
WNTV-DT to 9

-Shaun

Re: WSPA-DT
Audio problems continued last night in CSI. There were two instances of unintelligible dialog because of strong echo lasting approximately two minutes. Hopefully their new CBS receiver will soon be debugged.

Re: WSPA-DT - continues
Friday nights's JAG was plagued with both audio and video problems. Part of the program ran in SD, part HD; finally audio disappeared completely. Good Luck, WSPA, in solving the problem!

Is it just me, or is WSPA-DT (53) still having audio problems? I'm getting no audio at all from this station tonight. Anyone else experiencing the same?


Update: I just noticed that whenever a commercial comes on I get audio but I'm getting no audio from "CSI" and I got no audio from "Cold Case" earlier.

No audio on WSPA-DT when I turned on the game Sunday, ended up going over to WBTV-DT to watch it. On another note, I think that the total silence from FOX21 about HD and when or if they will ever do at least FOX widescreen puts them further down the respect ladder than Sinclair.

All HD Fans in Western Carolinas:
This was not a good week for HDTV in this area, especially last night:
WYFF-DT -- Law & Order was listed as HD, but was broadcast in SD.
WSPA-DT -- Audio problems continued, with no audio for the evening (two programs that I intended to watch).
WLOS-DT -- Although the GM was quoted as saying that WLOS would have HD this fall, it continues to send us SD versions of ABC HD.

This is the important fall ratings sweep month, and we HD viewers are not getting a break. Appears all attention is to SD, and analog broadcasts.
It is time for an organized push for better treatment here in Western Carolinas!

cc: Area General Managers

I watched the CBS NFL game on WBTV-DT and watched American Dreams on WCNC-DT, looked briefly at ABC on WOLO-DT and watched FOX widescreen on WACH-DT. we are on an island of incompetence surrounded by a sea of HD.

I agree wholeheartedly. For the last week, its been frustrating knowing there are programs out there, but haven't been able to watch it. So, what the plan ??????

WYFF (Doug Durkee) replied to the above:
NBC broadcast two L&O shows last night, one was in HD and the other wasn't. This was the decision (evidently a last minute decision) of the network, not WYFF. You can tell when WYFF-DT is passing the network feed from our NBC HD receiver either by the fact that the show is in HD or the side panels are black. When we are upconverting local programming or NBC from the SD recevier, the side panels will be gray. So if it's a prime time show in SD and the side panels are black, it's coming from the NBC HD
receiver that way (NBC upconverts prime SD programs)."

Well, tonight the audio seems to be working on WSPA-DT or at least for the time being anyway. Anyway, the reason I brought this up in the first place is I'm watching on a Fusion II HDTV tuner card in a PC. So, I wanted to confirm that the problem was in the signal coming from the station and not something wrong with my system.

Tonight's audio on WSPA-DT was greatly improved, and only slightly out of sync. This was true for both network programming and local content, such as the News Promos.

I think that HD viewers need to form some sort of coalition to help out markets with incompetent owners. We could possibly try to get people in other markets to call up and ask why no HD in markets without it and in turn people in that market call up to help out others.just maybe if the phones keep on ringing enough at these lame a** stations they will get the hint.

Re WSPA audio, Ron Peeler replies:

"Thanks....still working on this. We are in the middle of a server change for
all programming and are simply covered up with things to do.
Thanks for watching, we'll get better.

Ron Peeler"

Re WNTV Program listings:
Here is a response from Hap Griffin regarding 9-1,2,3 program listings:

"We recently added program data to 9-1 and 9-2, but 9-3 is still simply passing the HD from the PBS loop, which is not yet a scheduled service. We may have some test data in the que, but it is at this point meaningless. PBS will begin scheduling this service in December and will begin offering a richer HD scheduled service in February. Once the schedule info is made available to us, we will integrate it into the EPG for 9-3.

Hope that helps."
Hap

Anyone,

Is WLOS-DT off the air I have been unable to receive them since yesterday?

To All regarding WLOS
I have just returned from the UNCTV forum on Digital Television where I was told that Sinclair had issued an order for several million dollars worth of DT/HD equipment. The implication was that WLOS would receive some of this, but station personnel have insisted for some time that they have equipment for HD on hand. I also do not see a WLOS-DT signal today and hopefully that means installation is underway.

JB,

That is very encourging news.

Thanks

Re WLOS--
Sorry gang, but here is WLOS' Jim Carrier's response to being off the air:
"No new equipment installation yet. And, we would probably not be
working here if we were able to predict down-time in advance."
WLOS-DT is back on the air, but no change in power, pattern, or format.

Re: OTA Reception:
OTA over the past two weeks (approximately) has been seen a lot of changes for my location in the mountains. For example, my signals from Mt. Pisgah (WLOS and WUNF) have changed so that the maximum signal from the two DT transmissions from over a nearby rise are some 20 degrees apart. I cannot received the two stations from the same antenna orientation. DT Channel 9 in Greenville is very unstable and often breaks up. Signal strength for all DT transmissions has changed from day to day. At this point I have to use two different antenna locations to receive all local DT stations that for the past six months have been reliably received on one antenna.
Signals from the Charlotte area have from time to time been unusually strong.
I would appreciate comments regarding any other OTA observations.


__________________

Hello Jerry.

I have noticed a steady deterioration in my OTA reception during the past month. The trees shedding their leaves may have increased multipathing at my location here in Lenoir. If it gets much worse I may have to give up OTA reception.

Jerry:

Ditto on the OTA reception. Especially channel 9, which up until recently had no problems at all, now its no longer picking it up. I havent moved the attenna, because I finally found a "sweet spot" where I could get both ch 4 and 7 at the same time. (that and the fact I've seen the demo loop enough, and there's very little to watch on ch 9, but that's another thread)

As of right now though, ch 4 and 7 are the only two I can get, and if it rains or the wind blows then ch 4 goes out.

I don't look forward to the day when most of the DT stations in the 50s must move to another channel....and many seem to prefer the VHF band. Channel 9 has been my biggest problem in this area, first with co-channel, now probably multi-path, and perhaps adjacent channels from time to time. When the station first signed on, for weeks I received a very strong signal using a simple dipole. Occasionally there are SCETV HD programs (such as Soundstage) that I relied on, until now. SC and NC PBS have different schedules.

Re: Greenville's Ch 9 DT:

I have been unable to receive a signal from this station for several days. Anyone receiving it, and at usual strength?

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
Re: Greenville's Ch 9 DT:

I have been unable to receive a signal from this station for several days. Anyone receiving it, and at usual strength?

Coming in at 100 signal strength as usual for me. I am only about 4 miles from the tower though.

They will not go to full power until late '04 or early '05.

What was up with WHNS tonite?? I wanted to catch new eps of the Simpsons and Bernie Mac.. All I got was left channel audio on DT57 and a little of right channel audio on analog 21!! Geez, this is sad.

I tuned over to analog 18 in Charlotte, perfect audio.. Band conditions were such that I could not get DT27 reliably.. But what little I could get sounded great. (Thanks to Bob as always for his passion to make things run like they ought to!!)..

This is pathetic people. I don't mean to fuss as I know there are some techs and engineers here that are doing the best that they can with what they have to work with, but there is no excuse for what I heard on WHNS tonite.

This right here is a big reason why I drive over 120 miles round trip to work five days per week. I refuse to move to Asheville to live because I don't want to give up my wonderful quality HD OTA from Charlotte!

WHNS was like that at 12:00 Sunday afternoon as well. I wonder if these stations even monitor what they are actually sending out over the air waves. I am just glad I get the NFL games and the Faux Widescreen via DirecTv. I really have no other need for Fox or our pathetic local affilliate.

The people at WHNS have been far from truthfull about their DT plans , before they went live all we heard about was the equipment not installed yet, but one time I called to see if anything new was on the agenda and the engineer I talked to slipped up and told me that the equipment had been in place for awhile and that they were not going live because they did not want to spend money for the power to run it. Probably the same type of scenario in regards to FOX widescreen. All we can hope for is some other party buying these clowns out.

To all: Re WLOS-DT replacing transmitter:

Jim Carrier has advised:
"Tomorrow morning WLOS-DT will go off the air to replace the low power
transmitter. AI tech expects to take at least the entire week. I
expect that it may take longer since there is the possibility of snow
later in the week. The existing transmitter must be dis-assembled and
taken down the cable car before any of the new equipment can be brought
up to the top."

Jim

Jerry- What are they replacing it with? An even lower power transmitter?

Re WLOS-DT:

It is higher power. Lets just hope that they use its higher power and pass through the ABC HD.

Re WLOS-DT
A scan this morning found WLOS-DT back on the air. However, my signal reading is less that in the past, with the antenna(s) oriented for the maximum available signal. It is less than WUNF-DT which is on the same tower.

I am getting the signal as well. I dont beleive they broadcasting at any increased power. Maybe since they had all the delays they just swithed back to the old transmitter.

Could be. I sent Jim a note asking for comments regarding the signal. However, remember Jim stated earlier that the old transmitter must be removed from the Mountain prior to taking taking the new one up for installation. I will post Jim's reply.

If that is the case, maybe they have just not turned up the juice yet. I sure hope that this is not the new high power signal.

Does anyone get guide information for digital WLOS or WB40? All I get is "Regular Schedule". The simulcast of WB40 on 14-1 shows guide info. I also get no info for WHNS-DT or any of the Public digital channels. I have a Hughes E86 and DirecTv.

The program guide is a function of the station programming the PSIP and some do and some don't. Others give only limited information. Using a Samsung 160 I get approximately the same results as you. Nothing for WLOS-DT and for WHNS. I general get limited programming data for WUNF (33-1,2,3,4, 5, but they only program up to 48 hours in advance and seldom program the entire weekend. Usually there is no info for Sunday. 33-2 has programmed data for the full day to satisfy its cable commitments, thus is confusing when HD is not broadcast prior to 8 p.m. SCTV-DT 9-1,2 generally is programmed for the day, but only after you tune the station for a short time. 9-3 is programmed if there is local programming, but usually has no information for the PBS Loop.
WYFF-DT and WSPA-DT are most reliable.

Message from Jim Carrier, WLOS-DT, in reply to my observation that the signal strength has not improved with the new transmitter:
"We're not at full power but about four times what we were previously. Will not go full power until sometime in January. At least that is what the electrical contractor thinks. We have installed a 500kW generator at the foot of the cable car track and completely re-wired the building electrical system for 480V in. When this project is complete the UNC transmitter will not have to run on a step-up from our 208, we will then have the capacity to crank up the DTV power."

Guys I'm in the Spartanburg area & just picked up an HD receiver. I've had a combination rooftop UHF/VHF antenna with booster that I've used for some time with my satellite system.

Will that antenna work well enough to pick up HDTV or am I going to have to replace it?

Right now I get WBTV, WYFF (very snowy picture), WSPA (clear), WSOC (nearly unwatchable), WIS (just here enough for the VCR to notice it), WLOS (clear), WHNS (clear), SC ETV 29 (clear), UNC TV 33 Clear, WCNC (snowy) and the rest of the locals with virtually the same conditions.

How can I expect that reception to improve/decline when I set up HDTV?

A good over the air antenna for UHF (and VHF) is a good indication the same equipment will work for your new setup. The only VHF-DT in the Greenville area is SCETV, on Channel 9 from Parris Mt. You will find some great pictures on its HDTV (9-3) channel, so don't pass this up.
All of the DT transmitters are on the same tower as the SD transmitters, and it sounds as though you should expect good DT reception from all except WYFF. But it is strange that you are not receiving Channel 4 that well if you get WHNS-21 which is near WYFF. You may be surprised by the WYFF-DT.
In my case, I don't get the SD very well from several of the stations, but receive an excellent picture from their DT transmissions.
I see no reason to replace an existing antenna installation if it is in good condition and the cables are good and low loss. RG-6 is suggested if the signal is marginal.
Remember, with DT you either have a near perfect picture...or none at all!
I would just connect the antenna and start scanning for the DT signals>
Good luck....and feel free to send out any questions that may come up.

Repeating from Thread #1:
gjlowe:
Have you used http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.asp to check for the location of each area station and the orientation of your antenna for each? Also, I strongly suggest that you set your receiver for the channel you are missing to its signal strength meter and do a 360 degree search for a signal. You may find that a "bounce" from a different direction may give you a signal. My first DT signals were from a bounce from the opposite direction of the stations (WSPA and WYFF). Also, remember that the stations are not located IN Greenville (except for Channel 9). WSPA is on Hogback NW of Spartanburg, WYFF is on Caesar's Head north of Greenville and relatively near WHNS which is on Rich Mt. WASV is between WSPA and WYFF. I use a large broadband RS antenna in my attic, and it gives good results--but is very directional and must be reset for best reception of most stations and I change channels. But by far the best results is from a Channel Master 4-Bay UHF antenna set to a comprimise orientation that gives me all the UHF-DT stations from the one setting--except for very unusual conditions. I am told the 8-bay is the best for problem reception areas and this information comes from some highly respected RF engineers.

PS -- Newest information for the Western Carolinas is now on a new thread:
>>> Western Carolinas HDTV Fall 2003 <<<

AVS Forum > HDTV > Local HDTV Info and Reception

I've seen several posts here and in the other thread about WJZY & HDNet.. Is this the same "HD Net" that is available on satellite systems, and does WJZY rebroadcast their entire schedule?

cpalmer2k:
WJZY is the UPN-46 station out of Charlotte on a very tall antenna west of the city. I occasionally watch the station, and never have seen any HDNet programming. Recently, I have read that WJZY is offers HDTV programming, probably some UPN pass through. I don't often try for the stations DT signal, but can always see a very snowy analog picture and at present the program is Judge Mathis. Suggest you sign on to the station's website and you will find a place to send email...which I find the station is quick to answer. It would surprise me if HDNet has any deals with local stations now that it is a "premium" pay channel on the satellite.

Jerry I was referring to this post from the older Western Carolinas thread that popped back up this morning:

To John Crockett -- great to have you in the group! Thanks for being a part of it.

I just spoke with John Bishop at WJZY in Charlotte.. We now have UPN HD!!! For all those within range turn your antennas towards Gastonia / West Charlotte and tune up to channel 47. HDNet has been moved from DT39 to DT47 and UPN HD when available will be shown on 47.1 with SD on 47.2....

Gotta love it!

Regards,
Steve


Also WJZY has a schedule on their website (not updated for this week) for HDNet, that's why I asked. With things like the "Mark Cuban Show" listed it appears they at least partially carry the network, or did at least which I thought was odd as well.

WJZY-DT and WRAZ-DT in Raleigh both carry a derivative of HDNet called "High Definition" that is from HDNet for broadcast stations. It is mostly sports and original HDNet Programing. It is not the same HDNet channel that is on sat and cable.

Thanks for the clarification.

alright, thanks for clarifying that. Though I don't see it listed on the listings at all now since WJZY has added a UPN HD feed.

Asheville's UNCTV-DT (25) is off the air this morning for the installation of a backup generator.

This morning's Asheville Citizen-Times has a lengthy article regarding Home Theater and generally describes DT equipment for DVDs...nothing about HDTV. Those who follow this thread know that Editor Gabordi has refused to "touch" HDTV or DTV for the past year. Hopefully area subscribers will let Mr. Gabordi know of your interest.

Re Asheville Citizen Times: Editor Bob Gabordi responded today that rapidly changing technology probably warrants more HDTV Coverage. Help convince him that that is true, especially by including the HD information in its log listings.

OK guys I got the HDTV tuner I had bought in today (it's an older model) and tried it out. Unfortunately the results weren't what I expected. I think something may be wrong with the tuner, but one of you might can help me better understand it.

First of all when I do its auto scan it picks up a different group of channels each time (the first time it only picked up 21 & 33 which is UNC TV), the second time it picked up just WYFF-DT and the third time it picked up WSPA. I even tried turning off the channel mapping and this trend continued. If you enter the Channel # of the missing ones manually, either with mapping on or off, it never finds a signal. This particular model receiver is really old and doesn't have any signal strength meter, so I can't check that.

When it does pick them up WHNS & WYFF are clear as glass but WSPA is heavily pixellated, and if you flip away from it to one of the others it'll say "Signal Not Found" 3 times out of 4. As I've mentioned in past messages I'm using a good quality rooftop antenna that picks the Analog versions of all of these channels up in a watchable format (WSPA SHOULD be excellent under any circumstances).

According to Antennaweb.org I should be able to pick all of these DT stations up with "The smallest of TV antennas, these receive equally well from all directions. Designs include novel-shaped disks, patch antennas and antennas that attach to satellite systems. These antennas are most effective when signal strength is highest and away from reflecting structures or low areas"

All the three stations (WSPA, WYFF, & WHNS) are within a few degress of each other according to the list there, so I see no reason why I shouldn't be able to pick up WSPA when I get the less powerful WYFF & WHNS (both of which come in worse on analog feeds than WSPA does)

Any suggestions?

Your old antenna may be very directional, and the weak signals may be fading in and out. One way I have checked for usable signals is with a common rabbit ear antenna that comes with most sets. The antenna length should be rather short, approximately 11 inches for DT-25. To be exact, divide 5904 by the frequency. WYFF wold be 5904/741.25 = 7.96 inches, each side. The dipole is not very directional. Open it flat with it set for about 9 or 10" perhaps as short as it will go, and aim it about mid way between the stations. (Did you move the old antenna during your scans?)

The other potential is a multipath problem that causes the pixelizatiion. The rabbit ear antenna potentially will worsen any multipath and that will become more obvious.
You don't say what brand receiver you have. Some drop any channel not received during each scan, some retain previously locked channels. The key is to find a place where all channels can be received, then don't scan any more! Observe what you receive for a while (couple of days) and see if the pixelization continues. You don't mention the time frame for your test, but don't forget the stations still are off the air rather frequently. During the past week 25 was off for a power change. Just prior to that 56 was off for several days. WYFF-DT is subject to power outages.

If you find the temporary dipole does a better job of getting all available stations, then I would recommend a UHF only antenna, such as the Channel Master 4-bay bow tie. Good gain, and a reasonable reception pattern. (The temp dipole is not intended to be permanent.)

I don't believe the receiver is the cause of the problem of dropping stations...but hopefully those with more technical experience will offer advice. I would be suspicious of the older antenna, leadin, and any amplification and splitters. Don't judge by VHF reception of analog signals; UHF analog patterns will be more indicative of potential for UHF DT signals.

Let us know what you are finding as you continue the search.

Jerry,

Thanks for the advice, I'll see if I can get ahold of one of those and try it out with it. I really think the problem lies with the receiver though, I don't see any reason for it to be dropping the stations given the fact that my UHF analog reception of much farther away UHF station is pretty good, and the rhyme & reason doesn't make any sense.

I pick up WUNF-DT 25 at 294°, when I get WHNS and WYFF They come in perfectly (signals at 281° and 276°) yet WSPA DT-53 at 282° is horribly pixellated & unwatchable. That represents basically the whole spectrum, with WYFF being on the far end and WUNF being on the other end. Given those pickups it doesn't appearl to be a directional issue, since if it was one of those end two stations should have been dropped, not WSPA in the middle.

The only potential cause I can find is this... is it possible that the antenna booster is bringing in the DT signals (in this case WSPA's) too strong and that's causing the pixellation problem?

Boosters are notoriously bad for causing problems. I strongly suggest you take it out of the circuit...don't just pull the power plug. That will answer your question. Any of the nearby stations, either analog or digital, could be overloading your booster. Also, let me note that the most reliable signal I receive (although NOT line of sight) is WSPA-DT. It is just beyond a mountain range from me.
You indicated you received WUNF-DT from Mt. Pisgah. This station is at full power; on the same tower and higher is WLOS-DT which last week increased its power, but not to full authorized power. It increased from about 10% authorized power to about 40%...or a 400 per cent increase. Are you not receiving WLOS? However, WLOS sends out a very directional signal, with very little power going SW to NW...almost none to the west. That should not cause you a problem.

Also, you might find it interesting to know that under normal weather conditions my two antennas pick up signals from 160 to 245 degrees. WLOS is the only unstable picture.

Jerry,

Any updates as to when WLOS will increase to full power.

Mike

Guys in Jerry's absense I hope some of the rest of you can help me out with my antenna problem. I'm still using my rooftop antenna (with booster) at the moment but after going through & entering every channel in the area manually (unmapped) I can now pick up UNC-TV (25), WASV (45), WHNS (57) and WYFF (59).

I'm still having little luck with WSPA (53) though I'm WELL within range for that signal. I think the booster may be overinflating that signal though as it comes in, it's just heavily pixellated the majority of the time. At other moments it will be clear though. I'm hoping to pick up a small indoor antenna to try out with WSPA since almost anything should pick it up.

I can also get a lock on WLOS-DT but it never comes in at all other than a screen or two, it's always totally pixellated. I understand they broadcast from the same tower as UNC-TV (25) however at less power. My question is this... since I pick up 25 with flying colors am I to assume that when WLOS gets up to full speed I should be able to pick them up OK as well?

Also how about ETV? I know their Spartanburg station was supposed to go live with DTV on 12/31 but they didn't and I can't turn a lick on VHF-9. Any suggestions? I'm hoping maybe the indoor antenna I get to check into my WSPA woes will fix that as well.

To all: As HDTV/DT fans, we should be thankful for local stations and their progress in the DT world. I have just returned from three weeks in the Washington DC area where under the immediate eye of the FCC the stations are lagging behind those in this area. Actually, the Baltimore area stations offered the most reliable reception from a suburb SW of DC. Several DC stations published erronous PSIP data. I know...Sinclair keeps promising HD, but their DT has helped solve a lot of problems in this area and hopefully they soon will pass on the ABC HD programming. And generally speaking, we have the cooperation of local Engineering Management staffs, and that is not true in DC.

cpalmer2k:
Call me at 828 281-3588 and lets see if I can offer any specific suggestions. I will be out much of today, but you can reach me by midafternoon.

forum folks:

I'm a business writer for The Greenville News, and I'm working on a newspaper article about local HDTV ... its progress, its deficiencies, who's the best in the area, etc. I'd like to talk to a bunch of you about your experiences with HDTV, and how you feel about local service.

I've left messages with Jerry, and hope to speak with him. But I also want some regular customers and fans of the HD wave. Anyone want to give me a call? I need to speak with you today (Friday the 9th) if at all possible.

Thanks.

Ben Szobody
Business Writer
The Greenville News
phone: 864.298.4860
email: bszobody@greenvillenews.com

enoree? cpalmer?

i'm talking to you!

ben

Hello Jerry and HD Friends: I just purchased a new STB(LG LSS-3200A) replacing my old DTC100 and can say, without, hesitation, its a major improvement. Since arriving in the Rosman area , I have not been able to get any signal from Channel 4 or 7. With this new receiver, I am now getting a small reading from NBC 4(WYFF) , but its listed as "BAD" on the meter on the 3200A, since it does not list it numerically. This IS an improvement over the DTC100 as I got 'zero" reading with it. So, I have some hope that I can pick up those stations from Tyron. My question is. "Would a pre-amp , like a CM7777 help my CM4228 bowtie. I have done everything with my ant , from moving it up , over, tilts, etc. but have not tried a pre-amp.And, would this cause a problem with those stations from Mt.Pisqah that comes in so strong...Any help would be appreciated! Dan

The Greenville newspaper should have a story regarding local HDTV in today's edition. I don't have access to the paper, but if you have comments regarding the story, please post them here.

Jerry, I didn't see anything in the paper today regarding HD...if its in tomorrow I'll let you know.

Mike

Fishman:
The CM 4228 is a very high gain UHF antenna and with the CM 7777 preamp it is very likely to overload the rf section of most receivers considering you are so near the transmitters of several stations. It is my opinion that you would not improve your situation with such high gain rf amplifier. Also, I believe the 7777 is a combination UHF/VHF and that would add more total signal to your RX frontend. That having been said, the CM preamp is an excellent LOW noise amp. Hopefully one of the station engineers or a rf expert also will respond to your question. The question is what is blocking your signal from WYFF's tall tower near Caesar's Head and WSPA-DT on Hogback? I suggest you review your situation on contour maps for the area...it is just impossible to get a signal through a mountain. But there is a possibility for using a bounce...and better for using a "knife-edge signal" from a ridge line. In your case, multipath bounce from the surrounding mountains is a good potential for causing the problem...remembering that multipath (ghosting) is a major problem for DT signals. It could cancel an otherwise usable RF signal on WYFF's channel 59. WHNS-DT is not far away from WYFF and should be a good indication of receiving an usable signal from WYFF. In recent months, both WYFF and WSPA have proven to be my most reliable signals.
I'll dig out some contour maps and try to get a better indication of what you are up against...using Rossman as the starting point.

Thanks again Jerry! I have driven that roar (Hwy 276) and there are certainly lots of high terrain between my location and Greenville(Caesers Mt) and others that surround the area , so it may be difficult. Interesting that I am getting a reading from 4-1(between bad and normal on my 3200A reciver) but, 0 reading from 7-1. It is my understanding that WSPA/CBS is transmitting at full power. Guess the stations are further apart than I thought.Thanks for all the help... Fishman

nice to have you back Jerry, I think I might have narrowed my antenna problem down to multipathing. My rotor currently isn't working but I expect to get it back up & running this week, at that point I'm going to play with flipping the antenna around and see what stations I can come up with when its pointing in a different direction. If moving the antenna doesn't correct my problem with CBS I'm going to pick up a silver sensor and see if that'll do it, since I've heard that antenna is very good at eliminating multipath issues.

By the way do you by any chance know when WLOS is going to go full power? I pick up UNC-TV (25) which broadcasts from their tower fantastic, so given that I should be able to pick up WLOS-DT after they get to full power. My receiver can get a "lock" on their signal now but it's not sufficient to pull it in.

just to add a side comment I think it's a crying shame FOX 21 isn't even feeding fox's widescreen broadcast of the Panthers/Rams game today

Hello everyone.I have been lurking around here for quite awhile but only recently joined.My question is does anyone have any experience with reception issues around the Marion,Nebo areas?I have recently gotten a new STB-Samsung 160 and i have yet to experiment with an antenna for OTA.I live on Lake James about a mile from the Burke county line.Thanks in advance for any responses to my query.

Scoured both Saturday and Sunday editions, nothing about HDTV.:(

Re Greenville News HDTV story, it will probably be in the Business section whenever (and if) it runs. I sent Szobody a note asking that he notify us when...

Re Scanning for channels:

I finally figured out a way to beat Samsung at it's game of not adding channels whose signal is temporarily not being received. I usually can receive six DT stations from one setting of my master antenna, but not Greenville's DT 9. Now, I start the scan with the antenna set for DT9, and as soon as approaches the end of the VHF channels, I change the antenna to its normal position to finish the scan. That way I get all available channels to load. It also works when adding DT 25 to channels 30-69...you just have to move faster. I will never figure out why Samsung came up with a design that does not ask before dropping stations' whose signal is temporarily not available.

Re WLOS / ABC:

Still no word on when Sinclair will add ABC-HD to the WLOS lineup, nor when power will be increased again. They were so pleased with the recent gain, it may be sometime before another increase. Meanwhile, both WLOS and WUNF-DT expect to be more reliable now with improved electrical power backup.

Also how about ETV? I know their Spartanburg station was supposed to go live with DTV on 12/31 but they didn't and I can't turn a lick on VHF-9. Any suggestions? I'm hoping maybe the indoor antenna I get to check into my WSPA woes will fix that as well.

I was wondering when that station ould be on air as well. I can't get the WNTV-DT either.

Re: Greenville News HDTV story: Here is Ben's response this morning:

"The story was held at the last hour Friday night for unavoidable reasons, but is scheduled to run in tomorrow's paper. That, of course, is also susceptible to change. Thanks for your help and interest.
Ben"

Also how about ETV? I know their Spartanburg station was supposed to go live with DTV on 12/31 but they didn't and I can't turn a lick on VHF-9.
The closest timeframe I can give you for Spartanburg DTV is midsummer. We are working hard to bring up the remainder of our DTV stations around the state. When I get more information, I will post it in the forum.

-Shaun

Whats up with Fox? I'm not a fan of Fox, but would like to receive it. I am picking up the channel on 57-2 on my old DTC100, but when I try on my new LG 3200A its not available on 21-1. So. I scanned again 'off air guides" and no siginal on 21-1 on the DTC100, only on 57-2. My new LG will not scan these virtual channels , so I cannot pickup up Fox. Are they not sending signals on the lower bands, like everyone else. When I press 57-2 on my LG, I get "channel not available". Appreciate any response!

Very good article on HDTV in today's paper.Glad to see the light of day shed on the status of HDTV in this market,the front page location helps a lot. Lets just hope that WLOS and WHNS are not still just blowing smoke about their HD plans. My hats off to Ben for his article.:)

Originally posted by enoree
Very good article on HDTV in today's paper.Glad to see the light of day shed on the status of HDTV in this market,the front page location helps a lot. Lets just hope that WLOS and WHNS are not still just blowing smoke about their HD plans. My hats off to Ben for his article.:)

Is that article available on line?

http://greenvilleonline.com/news/business/2004/01/12/2004011222595.htm

This is for Wayne and/or any of the monitoring engineers at UNC TV:

Someone needs to go have a look at Linville / DT54.. I tried to watch American Experience last night.. With 100 percent signal level, I had so much pixelization and picture breakup on sub-channel 2 it was unwatchable.. Sub-channel 1 (SD) was a little better but while watching the program, something happened to the data stream which locked up my MyHD card twice.. The second time it was so bad that it somehow trashed my tuner software (I had to reinstall the app later and all was OK).. I cannot receive DT33 on Pisgah because of hills shadowing that direction, and DT44 at Concord is just a little too far away to see if the problem exists at any other UNC site. Finally, in desperation I hooked up the ole DTC 100, tuned in to SCETV DT9 in Greenville SC and had no problem after that. Of course, I had missed over half the program because of the technical difficulties. I have noticed that Linville has been getting progressively worse over the past couple of months, perhaps it may need some minor adjustment?? I'm seeing the same picture distortion issues on the DTC100 as well. Audio quality so far has been perfect and does not seem to be affected. Hope this information helps as a heads up..

Regards,
Steve

fishman

I think I'm noticing the same thing while breaking in a 3200 to replace a DTC-100, only my problem is getting ABC out ot Charlotte. The DTC will do it 50% of the time, the 3200 hasn't pulled in 34-1 yet at all. No Wildcard day or Suger Bowl in HD for me.
I haven't tried local FOX at all as I can always get 18-1 FOX out of Charlotte (with both boxes )and they are FOX WS and DD5.1.
My first impression of the 3200 is it gives up some reception range for better signal stability. Love the gude and stretch modes though.

Barney

Re WYFF-DT
The signal from WYFF-DT slowly faded away last night, starting shortly before 9 and was completely out 15 minutes later. WYFF's Doug Durkee says the cause of the problem on their end has not been determined.

Jerry and Co.

Thanks very much for your time and accessibility while I reported the HDTV story in today's Greenville News ... especially since it was held late Friday after speaking to many of you. The upside was that I was able to expand on some things -- most notably Charter, since their top executives just happened to be in town Monday.

There's a related Charter story that ran next to the HDTV piece on the front page today that may contain some added interest for you -- I can't post the URL because I'm new to this forum and AVS thinks I'm a spammer .... but go to our umbrella page (greenvilleonline.com) and you should see the headline below the HDTV link.

Question: Did most of you already know that WLOS and Charter say they'll roll out HDTV later this year? The comments from Fox indicate they are a ways off before they have anything in HD to offer. Reaction?

This is obviously a key consumer story, so just because I've written about HDTV doesn't mean I'm done paying attention. By all means, please keep posted about advancements, observations, etc. Feel free to call or e-mail.
Thanks, all.
Ben

Ben Szobody
Business Writer
The Greenville News
bszobody@greenvillenews.com
864.298.4860

I thought it was a very good article.

I was gratified to hear that WLOS does plan to have HD. Their plans were unknown to me. Charter's plans were unknown to me also. I haven't had service with Charter for years, and they would have to do something spectacular for me to give them another chance.

I'm not surprised by WHNS's lack of an HD plan. I do think that HD finally has enough momentum so that all of the locals will have to go HD eventually.

It was nice to see the article, and even nicer to see it make the front page. Thanks.

Jeff

Ben: The Charter information, coming from your source, was new to most, if not all, of us. Most HDTV viewers have been given so many dates by WLOS that have come and gone that no one really has any confidence in Sinclair. This is the first time the Station Manager has been so candid.
So...in reality, you have provided us good, solid information that is appreciated.
As for Fox, the latest official announcement for the Fox O&Os is that they will start with an "enhanced" widescreen (digitally transmitted SD)sometime this year...and are still promising a HDTV network feed by Fall "04. This may or may not apply to Meredith owned WHNS.

Er, thanks. Honestly, I wasn't lookinbg for praise -- the stuff from Charter, WLOS and others had to go in the story regardless, in order to inform the general, less knowledgeable reader. But I was curious about what you -- the savvier crowd -- had heard, either officially or mere scuttlebutt. That helps me going forward, as I attempt to dislodge 'news' from old information.

Another tip: Those of you who read the HDTV story in the paper saw a version that was shortened for the space we had. The story online is longer, and includes more quotes and info.

For example: One of you mentioned to me that the Greenville market doesn't have any stations that take advantage of the digital signal to add 24/7 weather or other secondary programming on alternate channels. In the online version of the story, you'll notice WSPA says it is working on those capabilities, adding full-time weather and perhaps some other services, and planning for ways to turn HDTV into revenue -- a key to getting the TV stations as a whole to jump on the wagon.
Ben

Another thing:

Charter, as reported, typically competes with satellite HD choices by including the local broadcast stations' HD programming in its own HDTV package. In order to do this, they must negotiate with network affiliates in each market they target, in order for the local CBS channel, for instance, to be included in Charter's HDTV cable package for Greenville.

questions:
(a) Since Charter then includes the HD receiver in its own cable box, and you'll also be able to get the broadcast channels via its digital cable, doesn't this mean a lot of expense down the drain for you all? i.e. Doesn't this eliminate the need for the housetop antennae and seperate HD receivers? We're talking a few hundred bucks, right? Reaction?

(b) Is it that satellite providers just haven't tried to include broadcast stations in their own HDTV packages, or is there some technical reason that DirecTV, for instance, can't give you WSPA in HDTV as a part of the subscription. Just wondering ...

Also, you'll note that both the Charter CEO (in the side Charter story) and the senior VP (in the HDTV story) said they would prefer to get the local broadcast channels involved in its HDTV plans, but will roll out the service this year regardless of how many deals they can strike.

Anyone get Charter's HD cable from either Columbia or Charlotte? Does that include the local broadcast HD as well?
Ben

My answers to those two questions are:
a) I'm unlikely to deal with Charter (at least for a long time), so for me it makes no difference. But yes, I think it would eliminate the need for our current (mine is 4 years old) HD receiver.
b)Directv doesn't have enough bandwidth to carry local HDTV markets at the moment. There is some talk that they may use a different type of satellite to do this at some point. I believe if you a search on "Spaceway" on these forums you could find information on these plans.

Ben,

I don't think you will find to many people here very sympathetic to charter. They pretty much drove all of us away from them in one shape or another before HD. I currently have D* with 5 receivers including an HD receiver. So their was some cash outlay upfront, but it is worth every penny to not have to deal with charter (they were finally evicted in april 03). And that doesn't include that I get sunday ticket and gameplan for football in the fall. My satellite bill now with hbo, hd, 4 extra receivers, the sports packages I get plus dsl end up being less than I paid for charter when I had three extra boxes all the channels (90% never watched) and a cable modem. And I don't have to deal with charter's bs or crappy service.

Yes, they will rent you a box which will save some people money up front but you'll end up paying them more in the long run, through higher rates and continuous payments for their hd box.

Also I recall reading a letter to editor in like the summer of 02 from a charter executive stating that they would have hd service in greenville in the fall of 02. So I'll believe it when I see it.

The answer to question b is that the satellite companies currently don't have enough bandwidth to offer all the locals in hd. You'll be able to find more in the hdtv programming forum. But the basics are that 1 hd channel equals the amount of bandwidth that 6 sd channels take up, and one of the reasons that the satellite providers hd boxes pretty much all come with an ota tuner to pick up your locals.

Mike

Let me also add that the newer Directv HD receivers integrate over the air signals fairly seamlessly with the Directv channels. Some people, of course, don't want an antenna. But with digital signals you don't have snow and ghosts. I haven't found antennas to be difficult to use with HDTV, though it would help if all the locals would broadcast at full power.

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
As for Fox, the latest official announcement for the Fox O&Os is that they will start with an "enhanced" widescreen (digitally transmitted SD)sometime this year...and are still promising a HDTV network feed by Fall "04. This may or may not apply to Meredith owned WHNS.

FOX O & O's have been providing network 16:9 480p since September 2002. And on the O & O here in NC, WGHP Greensboro/High Point/Winston-Salem has been providing FOX Wide screen since Nov 2002.

The network is scheduled to start 720p broadcasts this fall (2004) as soon as the sat network receive sites upgrades are completed this summer. It is assumed that the O & O's will go HD at that time. (We only need one piece of equipment that switches the 720p signals to complete that transition.)

As for the other owners of FOX affiliates, this time table may not apply.

Unfortunately most of the stations, both local and elsewhere, have not been forthright in keeping the public informed. The low power issue is a prime example. WLOS, until recently, was approximately 10% of authorized power; WSPA went to full power during the past year, WYFF is now (if memory serves me) at 60 percent power. People were investing in equipment and not finding the low power signals...and couldn't understand why. That was one of my main motivations for establishing a Western Carolinas HDTV forum.
Our mountains both block signals and cause multipath for analog signals, and at times play games with the DT signal. Therefore an antenna installation is somewhat trial and error...but for me it has been the difference between no watchable picture on analog for several stations, and a very reliable studio-quality picture on DT. I use a large all-band Radio Shack antenna on a rotor in my attic and it receives all local DT stations, although only two are line of sight. It was installed during construction. I have a second 4-bay Channel Master antenna that is remarkable, and CM makes an 8-bay--these are UHF only and simple to install. I don't have cable in my area, but do have DirecTV which I prefer although it has limited choices of HDTV programming. Between UNCTV-HD and SCETV-HD, NBC and CBS and DirecTV, I have almost no time to watch DVDs and I am a movie fan. As a old broadcaster, you can't imagine the thrill I have seeing a widescreen HDTV broadcast of a Baseball game or the New Year's Rose Parade, or a CSI--Miami series.
I know of many people who have HD cable that maintain an antenna system for OTA as a backup for cable outages.

As for the collateral uses of the DT channels, there are many possibilities. UNCTV is a national leader at present in this technology and I urge you to contact Wayne Estabrooks at Triangle Park. He can give you both the limitations and range of possibilities. At present, SCETV is pushing the envelope in broadcasting one HD and two SD-DT channels on its system. This causes artifacts duriing certain video scenes on both HD and SD broadcasts.
(More later)

foxeng
DTV Eng/Misfit
Some of the Fox O&Os describe the current and planned wide screen broadcasts as "enhanced." They carefully avoid the term HDTV. In Miami, DC, LA and Atlanta I have never seen a 480p broadcast that I could identify. I often watch 24, and sometimes stretch the picture for filling my 16x9 screen. It is acceptable, but not high definition. In that we get very little information from WHNS, can you offer any insight as to Meredith's plans?

Originally posted by bszob
Another thing:
(snip)
questions:
(a) Since Charter then includes the HD receiver in its own cable box, and you'll also be able to get the broadcast channels via its digital cable, doesn't this mean a lot of expense down the drain for you all? i.e. Doesn't this eliminate the need for the housetop antennae and seperate HD receivers? We're talking a few hundred bucks, right? Reaction?

(b) Is it that satellite providers just haven't tried to include broadcast stations in their own HDTV packages, or is there some technical reason that DirecTV, for instance, can't give you WSPA in HDTV as a part of the subscription. Just wondering ...

Also, you'll note that both the Charter CEO (in the side Charter story) and the senior VP (in the HDTV story) said they would prefer to get the local broadcast channels involved in its HDTV plans, but will roll out the service this year regardless of how many deals they can strike.

Anyone get Charter's HD cable from either Columbia or Charlotte? Does that include the local broadcast HD as well?
Ben

Ben: answers from a viewer of the Columbia channels:

a: Perhaps in the long run. But it will take some time for all your local stations to get on cable. It also provides a backup option and possibly a way to get other distant DT stations that will not get on cable (may not apply to all areas). I also doubt your local Charter could just put the HD channel on their cable w/o the stations permission and those can take months if not years.

In the Columbia area we have Time Warner, not Charter cable. ABC and CBS have succesfully negotiated with TWC for cable carriage. PBS is on TWC but IAW a national agreement. ABC and CBS are recieved OTA by TWC and inserted into their system. PBS is connected by optical fiber. So CBS, ABC, and PBS HD (along with other cable type HD channels) can be viewed through a HD cable box.

NBC and FOX stations have NOT completed agreements and are not on cable. The WB-DT station in this area (Sumter technically) is not on cable nor can it be received OTA in Columbia. A HD cable user I also can receive NBC, FOX, and WB digital because I have a ATSC receiver and antenna.


b. No, not enough bandwidth to carry hundreds of HD channels. Your local commercial broadcaster (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX) essentially owns your eyeballs by contract with the network. They have an exclusive right for you to view their commercials which pays for the programming). Some areas do overlap (physics). Rights can be waived but rarely are. Recent DirecTV contracts with CBS and FOX apply only to Network Owned and Operated affiliates. To put your local ABC/CBS/NBC/whatever HD channel on satellite would require them to put all of them on satellite and control your access to your local one (as they do with LiL of the analog ones). Technology is not there to allow that too happen yet (insufficient satellite resources).

Barney: What antenna/pre-amp combo are you using to pick up those Charlotte staions and what azimuth are you using to get those staions. From my back deck, I have clear west view and good view due east. Its that southeast(Greenville/Spartenburg) that I cant get any reading from the DTC100 and just bad readings from the 3200A. I am using a CM4228 bowtie/no preamp and off Old Toxaway (1 mile from hwy178). By looking at a map,I should be able to aim due East at 90 degrees and hit close to Charlotte. What do you suggest? Thanks , Fishman

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
foxeng
DTV Eng/Misfit
Some of the Fox O&Os describe the current and planned wide screen broadcasts as "enhanced." They carefully avoid the term HDTV. In Miami, DC, LA and Atlanta I have never seen a 480p broadcast that I could identify. I often watch 24, and sometimes stretch the picture for filling my 16x9 screen. It is acceptable, but not high definition. In that we get very little information from WHNS, can you offer any insight as to Meredith's plans?

These are the FOX O & O markets:

WAGA-5: Atlanta
KTBC-7: Austin
WBRC-6: Birmingham
WFXT-25: Boston
WFLD-32: Chicago
WJW-8: Cleveland
KDFW-4: Dallas
KDVR-31: Denver
WJBK-2: Detroit
WGHP-8: Greensboro
KRIV-26: Houston
WDAF-4: Kansas City
KTTV-11: Los Angeles
WHBQ-13: Memphis
WITI-6: Milwaukee
WNYW-5: New York
WTXF-29: Philadelphia
KSAZ-10: Phoenix
KSTU-13: Salt Lake City
KTVI-2: St. Louis
WTVT-13: Tampa Bay
WTTG-5: Washington D.C.
KMSP-9: Minneapolis
WOGX-51: Ocala
WOFL-35: Orlando


Nowhere have any of the O & O's said they do HD. I know WOFL passes the network upconverted to 1080i, but that is because FOX bought that station already on the air in 1080i and it was cheaper to keep it at 1080i than to retrofit down to 480p. Each says different things but it is always along the lines of "High Res" or ED or DTV or they say nothing. We say FOX Widescreen here at WGHP.

As for Meredith, you would have to talk to them, but I do know that WHNS currently has no way to send the 16:9 signal to their transmitter up on mountain. They are running a Microwave Radio 6G analog system. It would take a new digital microwave link and the necessary switching equipment at the studio. Right now they just tee off the analog video and audio microwave signal at the transmitter and one leg runs to the channel 21 analog transmitter in one room and the other leg runs to the SD encoder on the channel 57 transmitter in another room. It is all in the analog domain and I am not sure if their SD encoder will do 16:9 digital input. I know it is an analog to digital converter as well as a MPEG2 encoder all in one box so it might take quite a bit to get a 16:9 signal of any type on the air there.

All: Regarding UNC-DT PSIP:
Here is information received from Wayne Estabrooks:

Later this week if all goes well, we will shift our electronic program
guide (EPG) generation from Tribune to in-house. The EPG updates will be
dynamic and originate from our traffic department.
Our new traffic system, Meyers Pro-Track will automatically update the
program guide almost continuously. Last minute changes to the schedule
will be available on the EPG.
Hopefully it will not have any adverse effects on the PSIP.

This should be accomplished late this week and I will try to advise you
when it takes place.

We have updated our PSIP server to include programming information for our HD service. You should now see a full PBS HD schedule on your EPG.

-Shaun

Shaun: Re: PSIP/SCETV
It is really great to have access to your programming schedule and to be able to select viewing in advance. Is it necessary to go to "Regular Schedule" at 7:00 p.m.? Otherwise, it helps to have the time periods by half-hour increments so that receivers such as the Sam TS160 can be programmed for the day.

Jerry,

Please check your email, I have a question about what you are seeing. Thanks.

-Shaun

I get nothing but "Regular Schedule" on my Hughes E86 on 9-1,9-2, and 9-3. I have DirecTv and the only digital channels I get guide data for are WYFF-DT, WSPA-DT, WBSC-DT, WASV-DT.

Fishman

I am using the big Radio Shack yagi VU-210 VHF/UHF on top of the chimney with no preamp. I tried a CM preamp but it made reception lots worse. I'm pretty much aiming due East, but I get a reading on my rotor of 68-83 because I don't have the mast aligned exactly with true North - I wanted to be able to aim at Mt Pisgah and have some "play" without going all the way back around West.

Man this antenna stuff is so hit or miss, I don't know what to suggest. I think I'm just lucky with my elevation (3300') on Rich Mountain. I have a clear view West and North towards the Parkway, but there is a ridge East and SE in Henderson county I have to get over, but I still get 88 signal strength on WSPA and FOX in Charlotte (which is I think at full power). CBS out of Charlotte (3-1) comes in OK on my 3200 now too. There are some others I can receive, but don't watch as there is either no HD or nothing of interest.

CBS ran their HD promo of the sitcoms - HD video, I guess - during one of the football games and it still makes my jaw drop after watching HD for 4 years. I wish everything looked that good. Good luck and keep trying.

Barney

Barney: Thanks for the info. I am just under 3000', so, looking at terrain, think my best bet might be to try Charlotte. There just too much mountains between here and Spartenburg /Greenville area. Surprised the RS ant has such range. Imight pick one up and erect a second mask and give it a try..Thanks again...Fishman

Fishman and new HD owners:
Do experiment with locations if you add an antenna. My Radio Shack all-band antenna is on a rotor in the attic, and fortunately receives all stations but must be aimed correctly for several. There is one sweet spot for receiving at least 6 stations. My UHF-only antenna is very easily moved around my 5 acres and I have yet to find a better location than the corner of my deck. I can neither increase the height nor lower it to improve the first placement chosen by accident/convienence. I have tried up to 150' higher elevation on the mountain, but lost stations in doing so. I just looked for an antenna placement for my son in Washington DC and found only one location that received the maximum number of stations and that was only 15' off the ground beside the house, with no place on top of the two story home working. I am convenced you must search for the best location. I do not like using the rotor, so usually expect to receive all stations on the fixed position deck mounted antenna, and use the high-gain RS and rotor only during bad reception days--usually weather related. Good searching.

Anyone else out there getting the stuttering audio during the Pats/Colts game today? It is an intermittent problem and seems to be the same problem they have had off and on for months. I was told they were hoping to have their 5.1 up by the Super Bowl, but I really just hope they can at least get the 2.0 right.

Yes, I had the same audio problem with 7-1 today...but it has been that way frequently lately. I have sent Ron Peeler a note each time. He has not responded this week, but a couple of weeks back he said they are working on (or trying to find) the problem.

I'm seeing the same thing, but also intermittent video breakup as well. Watched the UNC UConn basketballl yesterday and none of this. Thought maye the wind was blowing my antenna. Maybe its blowing their antenna. SZ

Didn't have the breakup...but it was a continuation of the frequent prime time audio problem for the past couple of weeks.

The video was dead-on with no break-ups for me. I did have to teak my rotor a bit due to the wind, but when I point straight at WSPA-DT I never have break ups.

I switched over to WBTV after about 2 minutes of listening to the horrible audio on WSPA, no problems on WBTV.

Same here, I switched to WBTV because of audio problems.
My receiver showed Dolby 5.1 for the football game. That's the first time I've noticed them doing that for a game.

Although the sound was bad, I double checked for surround sound and it was only 2 channel here. (Samsung 160, digital coax into Onkyo receiver.)

Although the sound was bad, I double checked for surround sound and it was only 2 channel here. (Samsung 160, digital coax into Onkyo receiver.)

I had my antenna installer come to check my video drop out, and he was able to improve my 7-1 and 4-1 signal strength by changing out the 8 bay antenna, and substituting two 4 bay units pointing slightly differently; he also added a little more mast height (don't tell my wife). I am in Greenville about one mile South of I-85 and I-385 intersection (Collins Creek)
All video breakup that I saw on Sunday is gone.
Unfortunately, the audio on 7-1 was moderately garbled during the Tuesday evening prime-time broadcast period. Sure hope WSPA will do something before the S-Bowl.

Also, I noted something last night on4-1. My Sony menu showed a 720P signal. I thought NBC was 1080I. I'm pretty sure I've seen 1080I there before. The picture was still 4:3 as usual. SZ

Soarsz

You stated the signal was 720p on NBC last night and the picture was only 4 X 3. Everything I watched on NBC last night (including the State of the Union address) was 16 X 9 HD. I think ABC had the pool feed for the SOU address and they do 720p, so maybe that has something to do with you seeing 720p indicated by your receiver.

Also, what model antenna do you have? Anytime I have tried to combine it antennas it created more problems than it solved.

Re: WSPA-DT audio, I will ask for a report on progress solving their continuing audio problem. I had to switch last night from WSPA's SOU to NBC because of the audio, and was surprised and pleased the coverage was wide-sceen HD.
jb

Jerry- The State of the Union started out in HD on WSPA-DT. The sound was even worse than normal. I guess that is why they switched to the SD feed.

Apps1:
Stacking like antennas, especially pointed the same direction, is relatively simple using coax combiners/splitters with equal length cable between antennas and combiner. However, aiming in different direction can become more of a problem with phase cancellation from side reception of the same signal. This can be partially corrected by careful turning of the antennas while observing the signal. Too bad an inexpensive spectrum analyzer is not available...or that one of the stations doesn't make one available for loan to those of us pioneering the reception end of DT.

Multi-casting seems headed for debate in Washington. Read an interesting article in: www.skyreport.com
This is another aspect of "HDTV" that is sure to create delays.

"Stacking like antennas, especially pointed the same direction, is relatively simple using coax combiners/splitters with equal length cable between antennas and combiner." When I tried this it just seemed to make my multi-path problems worse.

"We are in the process of upgrading our network receiver as well as the Dolby 5.1 surround sound. This is actually taking place today 1/22/04 and should be online very soon. "

Young and the Restless is showing up as 5.1 on my receiver. I believe this is only DD2.0.

Originally posted by Apps1
"Stacking like antennas, especially pointed the same direction, is relatively simple using coax combiners/splitters with equal length cable between antennas and combiner." When I tried this it just seemed to make my multi-path problems worse.

What antennas were you stacking? One crude way to check is to look at an analog from the same antenna, close in frequency to your primary DT objective, if one is available. You can see ghosting (multipath) and make adjustments for phase cancellation. Side lobe signals would be increased but only in relation to the original signals and you should have greater gain on the primary lobe. Were you using an amplifier--which could really complate the problems?

Jerry: I stacked cm4221's with a cm7777 pre-amp. I also tried with cm4228's. I tried with and without the pre-amp. It was over a year ago that I tried this. I did alot of experimenting and the best results came with the 4221 with the 7777 pre-amp.

Also: I lost a little range (WBTV-DT) with the 4221 vs the 4228 but found I didn't have to use the rotor nearly as much with the 4221 so I stuck with that.

Apps1:
If you have not seen these websites which have the patterns for your two CM antennas, you may find them interesting and potentially good info for your particular experiences. With the CM777 and your close proximity to the WC transmitters, I have very surprised you do not experience a severe front end overload. The CM777's very high gain with the extreme gain of the antennas would blow my equipment out of the box! The side-lobes can result in really interesting results.

http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4228.html
http://www.hdtvprimer.com/ANTENNAS/cm4221.html

Otherwise, I certainly agree with your approach in trying various equipment for best results. As I have said before, I have one small place at the corner of a rear (south) deck that I can get all stations from one position with a CM 4-bay and no amp...any movement up, down, side to side, or amp will upset my setup and I will lose a station or stations.

I've got a question about WSPA TV. Since I started using my HDTV receiver I've had trouble getting WSPA using my roof mounted antenna with a booster, which pulls in most of the other area stations fine.

The signal here should be very good for this channel so I basically narrowed the problem down to multipath and decided to try an indoor antenna for it. I picked up a Silver Sensor and it has improved the picture quality overall but i'm still getting pixellation in certain places.

While watching their news or a TV show the picture is fine when the newscast or program is playing, but when they go to a commercial at least part of the screen turns into pixels when they make the switch from the feed to the commercials, and this also occurs during the commercials themselves. When the program returns it does it as it comes back on but then it clears up again right after that.

Anybody have any suggestions? With March Madness coming up I really need to be able to pick up CBS, that frankly is the whole reason I invested in HDTV hardware in the first place. It obviously can't be a weak signal or I wouldn't be able to pick it up with the indoor antenna, and the outdoor one would be clearer.

Originally posted by cpalmer2k
I've got a question about WSPA TV. Since I started using my HDTV receiver I've had trouble getting WSPA using my roof mounted antenna XXX (edit) a weak signal or I wouldn't be able to pick it up with the indoor antenna, and the outdoor one would be clearer.

Since WSPA-DT increased it antenna height and went full power early last year I have found their signal very stable with no pixelization. (My only problem now is the audio, which they are working on). Perhaps we can get a WSPA engineer to take a look at your comments and offer suggestions. I will send a note to the CE asking for help...because several people have similar problems.
BUT, I must add...I am very cautious about boosters, especially with high gain antennas.

Jerry I agree with your booster analysis, the signal looks HORRIBLE with the boosted antenna. It comes in clear however with the indoor antenna (which TitanTV and the old Antenna web noted would be sufficient), it just breaks up at those "spots" I mentioned in programs. The remainder of the program plays fine.

It's almost like an encoding problem but since others haven't mentioned the same problem I don't think that's it.

It's almost like the signal is too strong with the boosted antenna (or is suffering from multipath issues, OR Both) but with the Silver Sensor there are still tiny patches of video breakup. The audio remains consistent however.

I wonder if I should try a multi-directional indoor antenna and see how that works?

fishman and all

I'm going to take back what I said in an earlier post about my LG3200A not being as sensitive as the old DTC-100. It was "pilot error". In my haste during initial setup, I was a little careless on my zip codes for the local channel program guides. Last night I noticed that several channels in the guide were inconsistent with the actual programming (e.g. WSOC out of Charlotte was actually coming in but on the guide it was listed as 35-1 PAX instead of 34-1 ABC) . After fine tuning those set-up zip codes things are where they should be and I am (at least this am) getting a usuable signal from ABC Charlotte on 9-1.

barney

WSPA-DT's audio sounded very good last night.

I thought so too. Did your receiver indicate 5.1 even though it is actually only 2.0?

I thought it sounded better, but I had lip synch issues. Did you guys not have that?

Mike

No lip sync issues for me. I get this on my E86 occsionally and I just cut the box off and then on again and that put the lips back in sync for my unit.

Apps1 thank you, that seams to have solved the problem for me.

I just caught a promo for HDTV on WSPA. The jist of it was they were the only source to get the Super Bowl in HD and Surround Sound. They mentioned at the end to contact your cable company about carrying WSPA-DT. Maybe this will motivate Charter, WLOS, and WHNS to get their butts in gear.

Originally posted by Apps1
Maybe this will motivate Charter, WLOS, and WHNS to get their butts in gear.

Just asking here now, but why should it? They do not have a marque event to push like the Super Bowl.

"Just asking here now, but why should it? They do not have a marque event to push like the Super Bowl."

I dont see this as really being about 1 Football game. Hopefully it will increase awareness of HD in the area, and lead to more people asking their cable companies and local affiliates to pass along the HD feeds. I would think the more people asking to receive the HD feeds only helps to get these companies at least thinking about the prospect of providing what customers want.

But FOX does have NASCAR in widescreen and maybe it will help get WHNS off their cheapskate rears and put it on in widescreen.

All: RE: WSPA-DT
My audio was a few frames out of sync duirng the Super Bowl coverage last night. Anyone else notice the problem?

The only thing that was out of sync on my end was the Half-Time show. What were they thinking? I had no audio problems.

Apps1
Re Super Bowl/Audio sync
My Samsung TS 160 in itself does not seem to cause sync problems. So far, when this has been a problem the stations have confirmed the problem is on their end. WSPA has had continuing problems with its audio...both drop outs and out of sync. Their recent installation of new equipment was to have solved that, and it did seem to do so during my too limited monitoring for the past 10 days. I did not notify WSPA's Ron Peeler of my observations during the Super Bowl, and would like to have a few other comments prior to sending him a note. I will include your comment when, and if, I communicate with Peeler.

PS: We have far too few participating in our forum! Lets try to build awareness.

I also noted a little out of sync on the commercials. But wasn't that a spectacular show. The pictures through my Zenith and Sony VPL HS10 on a 106" screen were so good I even watched the commercials. Thank you WSPA. The picture was perfect from beginning to end, and none of the annoying audio breakup I had experienced a couple of weeks ago with the AFL championship games. I had 3/2.1 whenever I bothered to look, and the music and other half-time program were awesome.
Now if Fox will get it going with the Nextel series, and maybe by next year Sinclair will give us NFC football in HD.
After seeing a good dose of HD, its pretty unacceptable to try to watch SD programming on the big screen.

Yes...CBS went all out for the Super Bowl, and WSPA did its share in making it a very successful event. (Too bad WE came up one TD short.)
Thanks to Ron and staff for anticipating the HD broadcast and installing the new sound equipment.

Did anyone get any signal strength readings? It seemed that during the pregame that I had a lot of pixelation and dropouts, and I had not one problem during the game other than the extremely annoying audio level issues....which may have been caused by my receiver . . . dang Sony.

My signal strength was locked on 100 as it always is with WSPA-DT.

My reception was great, and I didn't notice any sync issues. I have a DTC-100.

I received my normal signal strength (for the Samsung 160) at 77. This an adjustable setting in that my antenna is not pointed directly toward the station...it is set to receive a compromise signal from all local stations and that is some 80 degrees away from WSPA-DT. I observed no pixelization and was generally pleased with the technical aspects. The only interruption was at approximately 6:45 when the audio dropped out for about 05 seconds.

To Shaun and Hap at SCETV:

I watched "Remember the Alamo" on American Experience tonite via DT9, subchannel 3. The program was flawless, it looked absolutely fantastic even if it was widescreen only. No dropouts, pixelization, MyHD card lockup goofiness or any artifact audio or video. This was real digital television that was a pleasure and a thrill to watch. My signal level was in the mid 60's with sleet and freezing rain all over the antenna!

Bravo guys, Bravo. :) :)

Regards,
Steve

hmmm, must be the airport. Maybe less traffic during the superbowl...maybe the ionosphere was more reflective, the planets aligned, whatever it was I was happy to get the Super Bowl with no dropouts... I'm pretty sure my antenna is getting its' best signal from a multipath signal anyway as I'm aimed about 30 degrees off direct LOS. So did nobody else notice a really bad 5.1 mix? I was continually adjusting my center channel and overall volume from commercial to commercial, and even some of the commentary. If not, it's just one more nail in my Sony Receiver's coffin...anyone want a STR-DB1070?

Anyone seeing a signal from WYFF-DT at this time?

WYFF-DT is off...and awaiting a transmitter part. Durkee posted that information on our original thread. Here is his statement:

2/4

WYFF-DT will be off until repair parts can be installed. We hope to be back on some time tomorrow, Thursday 2/5.

I apologize for the inconvenience, but we only have 1 PA tube assembly so there isn't any other alternative.

Doug

What has happened to this thread? I was away from my computer for 10 days, and it came to a screeching halt. Is this the twilight zone? Does everybody know whats happening but me? Come on guys, I need my Western Carolina thread fix.

I hope that the good folks at WYFF are aware the BOTH races this weekend from Daytona are in HD, and remember to take the needed actions to pass along the feed.

mgtr:

Hopefully this thread is alive. There has been little participation recently...and we certainly need to improve that and gain more members. We have fair input from local broadcasters, with the exception of WHNS and WLOS. Greater viewer participation should change that.

All...I lost WLOS-DT for several days...but it returned yesterday. No answer from WLOS in response to inquiries. Anyone else have problems?

Enoree: Wyff knows the races are in HD and will broadcast.

I started to watch the Busch race on WYFF-DT. The sound was constantly popping in and out every few seconds, lots of picture drop outs. I then switched over to my B antenna and tuned in WCNC-DT (Charlotte) absolutely perfect sound and picture. I really think that WYFF has some work to do on their feed, somewhere on the path.I think if they continue on this course ,that as more people in the market get DT and do it OTA that they will lose some viewers to other markets that can be picked up here, they need to remember a decent DT signal means perfect reception, not a marginal ,snowy picture like analog.

WYFF-DT broadcast of the race yesterday was perfect for me.

So, how did the 500 broadcast look to you guys and which channel did you watch it on (WYFF-Dt or WCNC-DT)? I watched it on WCNC-DT and had some break-ups at the end, though I think that may have been a reception issue on my end. The weather seems to have had a negative impact on my reception for the last couple days.

Watched it on WCNC, the breakups were a NBC problem. WYFF really needs to go to full power soon and stop playing around.

Everything was fine on WYFF-DT except for the NBC network problems. Shrek looks great as well.

WYFF really needs to go to full power soon and stop playing around.

Yeah, the reason I had to watch it on WCNC-DT is because I can't reliably receieve WYFF-DT. Perhaps if they went to full power I could recieve thier signal. I can get the analog station very well.

WYFF's 500 coverage was disappointing, but it was not the transmitter that concerned me. It was NBC's soft HD cameras. Weather may have caused a short breakup late in the coverage here in Asheville, but otherwise there was a steady 88 or better signal when I would check during several commercial breaks.

Jerry,
I read your post about low participation, and would like to say that while I read the thread a lot, I don't participate much, because I really don't have much to say. I'll probably watch much more OTA HD when I get my HD Tivo, but until then, I only watch special events OTA., the rest is DirecTV TiVo.....

Jerry,

I check here each day. I have started to post replys several times and stopped because they were mainly just complaints. One thing I would like to see corrected is Closed Captions on WYFF 4. I have a samsung sirt-151, and CC works fine on other stations. There appears to be two types of CC, one is the anolog and the other is HD. My unit shows Service1 is being received on Charlotte channel 3, WYFF4, and WSPA, the others that broadcast CC show up as CC1. Only WYFF4 does not display? E-Mail to WYFF4 was answered with, "Our equipment shows CC are being sent out". I would like to ask if anyone can actually see CC on WYFF4 or have any idea why I can not see them?

I just tested the CC on WYFF-DT during Regis & Kelly. I get CC with my Hughes E86 with CC1 turned on.

Apps1,

OK thanks. At times my unit selects CC1 on channel 4 and I see CC, but most of the time it selects Service1 and I do not. I do not have any way to select which one to use. It looks like my unit sees Service1 being broadcast and will not select CC1.

Apps1,

Here is a quote I received from WYFF4, it appears my unit thinks they are sending the "new" type CC. I thank you again for helping me, and can only hope that WYFF4 finds their problem. Since it is a low priority item I doubt that it will be soon.

"There are two types of captioning on HD.
They are referred to as 608 and 708. 608 captioning is comparable to the
captioning on analog video. 708 captioning is supposed to be the "new and
improved captioning for digital. We have no problem viewing the 608
captioning, but we have not been able to see any 708 captioning even
thought everything appears to be configured correctly for it. "

Let me jump in here and relate my experiences as a broadcaster.

CC has been a royal pain in my butt on DTV since the start. There were protocol issues with the manufacturers on both sides and it seems that the transmitting side is catching up with receive side. The early Sammy's like the 150 and 151's are prone to have CC problems.

Here is the juice:

A non HD DTV signal (meaning anything EXCEPT 720p or 1080i) sends EIA-608 (analog standard) CC. A HD (720p or 1080i) signal sends 608 (for CC fields 2-4, Text fields 1-4 and XDS packets (V-Chip data) and EIA 708 (the HD CC standard) for CC field 1 (also known as Service 1). If a station is sending 480p and the encoder is in what is called a "mapped mode" meaning it is taking a 480i signal and converting to a 720p or 1080i signal (due to the hardware upconverter architecture) it is being remapped in the MPEGII encoder as 480p (in other words it is sent as a 1080i or 720p signal, but your receiver is told it is 480p and treat it like was real 480p) then it uses the HD standard and not the analog standard as in a real 480p or 480i signal.

Now having said all that, the early Sammy's don't know how to interpret the 608/708 intermingling and it doesn't show anything when it happens. You run 608 straight and those receivers decode CC to beat the band! My Sammy 160 and the stations Sammy 165 handle OTA HD CC with no problems.

Now, having this very 480p peculiarity, (my upconverter only put out 1080i mapped to 480p and the encoder compressed to look 480p) it took almost 2 years to find out that was the problem.

Life is NOT simple when it comes to DTV ANYTHING.

Foxeng,

That was probably more info than anyone besides me would like to hear on CC. I found it interesting and I believe others will also, if we knew everything life sure would be dull.

Originally posted by mdgaffney
Foxeng,

That was probably more info than anyone besides me would like to hear on CC. I found it interesting and I believe others will also, if we knew everything life sure would be dull.

I don't want to know everything, just what I need to know and get it on the first pass! ;)

foxeng:
Thanks a ton for jumping in with tech help. Hope you continue to monitor for opportunities to assist.

All:
Samsung has suggested I replace the Sam TS 160 with a TS 360. So far, I have not been impressed with user comments. Any of you have first hand knowledge of the 360. My 160 has started to go to the installation screen for no apparent reason...and download data for some 90 seconds. (This would be my fourth unit from Samsung. The 160 also suddenly drops scanned channels from time to time.

I read about the plans for FOX Sports to do NASCAR,MLB,NFL in 720p. It SURE would be nice to AT LEAST get the FOX widescreen from WHNS. Meredith stinks about as bad as Sinclair ,as far as being up front and honest with their intentions and giving a rip about the consumer.

I understand your frustration, but messages of that nature won't help. I'll get the corporate address and publish it here for a letter writing campaign.

Jerry,

You have mentioned in the past that amps seem to cause more problems than they solve. I have been using a motorola broadband drop amp for some time, and it seems to work very well. I was wondering if you or anyone had tried to use this amp. It claims to have a gain of 15dB. I originally bought this for use on cable for internet, when I did not sign up for the internet I put it away and forgot about it. I bought the amp at Best Buy for around $65. It was sold as a signal booster for TV - Digital Cable -Internet which improves UHF/VHF/FM antenna reception. It also says it is HDTV compatible.

Enoree- Fox WS east & west will be on DirecTv soon. Check to see if you qualify for DNS or if WHNS will give you a waiver.

I purchased a HD tuner last month and am really enjoying HDTV. WSPA is doing a great job (along with CBS). WLOS/ABC seems to be the weak link in our area. Who do we need to write, call or e mail to get them going? It drives me crazy knowing that ABC has HD prime time shows that I can't get! I am so disappointed that the Oscars are going to be on ABC. I wanted to have a Oscar party like I did with the Super Bowl but without HD it just wouldn't be the same.

mdgaffney:
Thanks for the info regarding the RF amp. The reasonable gain is a good start. Do you have the noise figure? It appears it is a wide band (VHF-UHF) amp...and I probably could use a bit of boost for the Channel 9 signal from Greenville. (I am not totally against using amplification, but only after achieving the best possible signal from an antenna(s). It is just that over the years I found that most people assume more is better and end up overloading their receiver front ends. Many HD receivers have a relatively low tolerance for excessive RF.)

WLOS is owned by Sinclair, this outfit is about the worst owner as far as HD goes. If you live in the right area you can get WOLO-DT from Columbia as it is on a VHF channel.A good deep fringe VHF-UHF antenna and a pre-amp can do the trick.ABC does pretty good HD , and WOLO does a great job of passing it thru. They have great engineering staff there.

Jerry,

The spec for the motorola amp are:

Forward Specifications(52-1000MHz) Nominal
Gain 15dB
Input Return Loss 25dB
Output Return Loss 25dB
Noise Figure 2.5dB max.
RFI Shielding 100dB min.

Return Specifations (5-40MHz) Nominal
Insertion Loss 1dB
Input Return Loss 25dB
Output Return Loss 25dB

More info can be found at www.motorola.com/broadband

Re WLOS:

I suggest a letter campaign to General Manager Les Vann, WLOS, 110 Technology Drive, Asheville, NC 28804, expressing your interest in ABC's HD programming would help. I have asked for the name of the CEO of broadcast at Sinclair, but have not yet received it. Meanwhile, watch for a posting here. I will also include ABC's affiliate relations address...so save a copies of your letters for later posting.

ps--It is interesting to note that Sinclair has a DT division!

Here is a note on Sinclair's DTV website. I find it interesting.
<quote>
Welcome to Sinclair DTV.com. Sinclair Broadcast Group, Inc. is working hard to bring digital television to viewers accross the country. This site will provide you with valuable information about this new and exciting standard in television broadcasting. We hope that you will come to this site when you have questions about digital television and the technology behind it. If you cannot find the answer to your question, feel free to submit it to " Mr. DTV."
<end quote>

Send copies of your correspondence with WLOS to:
Sinclair Broadcast Group
Attention Brodcast CEO
10706 Beaver Dam Road
Hunt Valley, MD 21030

Jerry,

Thanks for the addresses. I will send a letter to both General Manager Les Vann at WLOS and to the Sinclair Broadcast Group in MD. I encourage everyone to do the same. The more noise that we make the better!

Re WLOS

Mark Aitken, "MisterDTV", is a member of AVS and posts over on the Programming forum.

Re WLOS:

I may have new information that I can post very soon. Mark Aitken, "MisterDTV", is a member of AVS and posts over on the Programming forum. I have invited him to monitor our forum and keep us informed.

Jerry Birdwell-
As a newbie, I have only limited experience in HDTV. I bought a Samsung 360 which I use with a 65" Mitsu RPTV. I am perfectly satisfied. In addition to the Directv channels, I get a lot of OTA HDTV (alas, not WLOS yet). I like the way the receiver interleaves the channels in the menu. I have had zero problems EXCEPT it locked up one time. Since then, I have simply turned it off each time I turn off the TV, and have had no lockups since.

mgtr

Originally posted by mgtr
Jerry Birdwell-
. I bought a Samsung 360 which I use with a 65" Mitsu RPTV. I am perfectly satisfied. In addition to the Directv channels, I get a lot of OTA HDTV (alas, not xxxxxx
mgtr

Thanks. I take it you have no experience with the 160. After some six months use, it has started rebooting (going to the install and downloading guide data) for no reason at all. I must make a decision whether or not to go with the 360. In that I feed all the house a composite video feed, I need to have video out from the composite (RCA plug) while also using the HDTV Component out. (Most people use it for recording on VCR). Have you tried that? Have you ever lost a scanned in Channel for no apparent reason...perhaps when the station went off the air for a while?
Appreciate your help.

Originally posted by jerry birdwell
Thanks. I take it you have no experience with the 160. After some six months use, it has started rebooting (going to the install and downloading guide data) for no reason at all. I must make a decision whether or not to go with the 360. In that I feed all the house a composit video feed, I need to have video out from the composit (RCA plug) while also using the HDTV Component out. (Most people use it for recording on VCR). Have you tried that? Have you ever lost a scanned in Channel for no apparent reason...perhaps when the station went off the air for a while?
Appreciate your help.

I have had my 160 now almost 18 months and adter the software upgrade in Dec 2002, My 160 hasn't locked up one time, nor have I had any problems with it at all.

Jerry Birdwell-
I haven't tried to record on a VCR off the system, although I assume it would work. I record on another system in the house. I don't think I have ever lost a scanned in channel, although I have experimented around with a variety of antennas and directions, and don't always recall exactly which channels were in at any given time. Good luck.
mgtr

WLOS 13-1 and 13-2 showed up in my channel guide for the first time yesterday. (Have a Zenith 520) Granted the signal wasn't anywhere close enough to get anytype of picture. Did they recently up the power a little that I'm able to receive the guide data. Or did they just start sending the guide data out?

Mike

Re WLOS programming data:

I, too, just started receiving the Programming Data. I sent the station a note acknowledging it...and noting how much easier it is to make a decision to watch the station... Yet it would be much better if we could receive the ABC HD programs. I am awaiting new information from Sinclair that I think will be good news for this area.

(Mike -- WLOS-DT power was increased a fair amount with the installation of new equipment a couple of months back...but it still is not full power. And, I believe the transmission pattern is very directional, almost"D" shape with very little energy going west). I have noted very little signal increase reaching my location, although the signal for me contues to be very stable.

Just wanted to give you folks a heads up with Charter cable HDTV in the Greenville, SC area. We've been told the roll out will begin at the end of March. Now I know you have heard dates from Charter before, but I can assure you this is a very high priority for us. When I hear something more, I will let you know in this forum.

John B.

John B,

Glad to hear that hope you will let us know what is being offered and what the cost will be.

thanks,
Mike G

IfixitBIG

Welcome to our thread.

Re: Receiver Problems:
My Samsung TS 160 has suddenly gone into the "Installation" mode many times in the past month or so, and downloads program data for about 90 seconds. I never associated it any particular channel until today. After receiving a replacement receiver, it did the same thing three times within the first 20 minutes of operation. I was using 33-1 (WUNF-DT) for setup. It was then I realized that while recording 33-1 a couple of weeks ago the recording was interrupted with the "installation" mode.
Today, Wayne Estabrooks confirmed he has had problems not receiving data on his TS-165, but has never experienced the "installation" interruption. He has sent an email to the engineers responsible for the PSIP programming and is checking on the possibility of a problem.
(Samsung also reports that other stations has had problems with the PSIP causing reception problems with Samsung receivers.)

Any other similar experience?

Update on HD coming to Charter customers in the upstate. I've been told the HD launch date will be March 28th. No word on pricing yet, but I will let you know as soon as I hear. They are offering a cool package to new customers, but is not related to the HD package. If you have any questions, let me know.

Ifixitbig,

I checked with Charter Friday Feb 27, here is what I was told:
Did not know when rollout would be, but went on to say box rental for HDTV would be $6.99 he even listed the output connections (compontent, S-VHS, composite. Initally the following would be offered:
HBO-HD with sub to HBO
SHO-HD with sub to SHO
HdNet
NdNet Movies
NBC
FOX(I did not question this)
CBS
He said more would be added later but they might cost extra. He mentioned ESPN-HD.
The HD channels would be free except you must subscribe to HBO or SHO to receive their HD broadcasts. A check of the Atalanta area Charter service(Smyrna, Ga.) shows their HD-Tier to be the above mentioned stations.

I hope the March 28 rollout happens but I still dont trust Charter.

I am glad Charter appears to be finally getting on board with HD. They are too late to get my business, but more choice is good for everyone.

Apps1, mdgaffney,
I understand your concern. I work with Charter Media, the advertising side of Charter Communications. I will tell you on the inside, they are getting information to us, hoping we will pass it around. I will keep you folks informed as I get information. Maybe one day, we can win back that trust.

IfixitBIG- Does Charter have a set top box with the ability to record HD programming (HD PVR)?

I've heard Charter has been testing them... but nothing about them being able to record HDTV. They may be looking at doing this, but I haven't heard. I'll pursue it after the HDTV roll out starts. We had a video presentation to Charter employees, that mentioned PVR's at the end of 3rd quarter/4th quarter of 2004. With very little talk right now about them, I wouldn't bet on it right yet. We'll see.

To All re WLOS:
Generally I like to get permission to quote replies from Station Owners-Operators, but after a week I feel our forum members are entitled to see this reply from Sinclair regarding WLOS:

>Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts. We DO take digital TV serious! We have invested ~$150M into developing a "state-of-the-art" (H)DTV capability, and continue to invest in the future - a future that serves the needs of individuals, communities and local markets across the United States of America.

Sinclair is continuing to invest in digital TV to provide many with a mix of HDTV and other "high quality" programs. This takes time and resources (people and capital!). We continue to meet our obligations to this federally mandated (FCC) 'transition'. You will be happy to know that every effort is being made to bring ABC HDTV to your local market. After long and detailed discussions with the talented engineering staff at WLOS, and mapping a plan that meets the needs of most, it is our intent to be providing "free over-the-air" HDTV within the next ~90 days. It is possible that HDTV could be offered sooner/later, but we are awaiting product from some of our providers and can not commit beyond what they have committed to.<

Re WSPA--This station's audio is by far the loudest in the area, and frequently local station breaks and other local programming nearly blast me out of the room. Need your comments to pass on to the station.


__________________

I get the feeling, WLOS was not broadcasting in HD last night on 13-1. Was that just their standard broadcast. It looked better than my Wlos on DTV, but I just didn't think it was HD because it was not wide-screen. I guess I was right.

Jerry Birdwell-
This is wonderful news from WLOS. Much better to have a positive answer with a timetable (even if slips) than continued deafening silence. Good work!

Glad to hear about wlos, but hope that they will increase their power. I'm currently in the "dead zone" over in Seneca and get no usable signal currently. Just for the record, I almost never watch ABC since there is no HD. I found myself watching "Holy Cow" on PBS, just because I've gotten spoiled with the picture! Holy Cow!!

Fragman: Were you watching PBS from Pisgah (Channel 25)? As you know, it is on the same tower as WLOS-DT. Difference is power, although WLOS did increase it power a bit a few months back.

jerrry:

No, I get channel 9 out of greenville. Due to my topography, (I live at the bottom of the hill, with tall trees all around!) I struggle to get the NC stations, while the ones in Greenville come in fine.

Has anybody noticed a drop in signal strength from wspa in the last week or so. It used to be a solid 90 for me now its around 70 with drops to 50 and below at times.

No I don't have a real antenna yet, just amplified magnavox rabbit ears.

Mike

Hello all, I'm new to this thread and am very happy to see all the locals. I'm very new to HD, in fact, have not even installed it yet. I AM the beneficiary of the famous DirecTV $99 deal and am having it installed in two weeks. I will be linking my new Samsung TS-360 (still in the box) to my Toshiba 30HF83. I do not have an OTA yet and that is where I need help and advice. I'm in the 29650 area code and have read lots about the Silver Sensor and various indoor RS models. What is the best way to go to receive ALL local stations (WYFF,WSPA,WHNS,WLOS,ETV and even UPN and WB). Perhaps even some other cities channels? Eventually I would like to drop the locals package off my D* subscription. Some other questions: should I go all out and put up an outdoor ant.? Do I need a rotor- for inside or outside use? Thanks in advance!

Calvinb:
Start with a review of your situation at
http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.asp
I believe all of your potential stations except DT-9 will be UHF. I suggest you consider a Channel Master 4 bay bowtie for a relatively wide reception angle. This antenna is small enough to go on a rotor in most attics. Post your reaction to the antennaweb suggestions...and you should get a better response to your questions.

The website seems to be recommending a UHF (yellow) antenna. Reading further, it seems that an outdoor antenna is best but I may try an indoor one first, if for no other reason than cost and ease of installation. I am very new to this so any help is appreciated.

Calvin, Billyray:
WSPA is pegged at 100 for me. I have a few extra antennas from my days of experimenting that you can try. PM me if you are interested.

Fragman,

I live in Clemson in a similar lot as yours (bottom of the hill with lots of trees). I am having problems picking up NBC and CBS. Can you tell me what antenna you are using? I have a uhf only Winegard on a rotor, with a Winegard 4770 preamp, but the reception is spotty at best. Thanks for the help.

Wright

All
Anyone have a WLOS-DT (13-1) signal?

Originally posted by wrighthenry
Fragman,

I live in Clemson in a similar lot as yours (bottom of the hill with lots of trees). I am having problems picking up NBC and CBS. Can you tell me what antenna you are using? I have a uhf only Winegard on a rotor, with a Winegard 4770 preamp, but the reception is spotty at best. Thanks for the help.

Wright

Wrighthenry:

I've got a Radio Shack 80" boom antenna (VU-90XR) mounted about 25' in the air and a Channel master 7777 pre-amp. (The pre-amp made all the difference for me) I usually get CBS, NBC and PBS (I don't count WHNS since there's nothing HD on it, but it does come in) without having to change the direction of the attenna. I don't get WLOS.

Jerry- I have had nothing on 13-1 since yesterday.

Re WLOS-DT
A studio engineer told me at 3:30 that Jim Carrier had called in and asked that the re-set be activated for the DT transmitter but they had no way to monitor. He tried it twice while I watched. No luck.

"but they had no way to monitor". What a joke! That is really pitiful.

Fragman,

Thanks for the reply. I have ordered a channel master 7777 preamp, so hopefully that will help out my situation. I wish I could raise my antenna another 25 feet, but I think my wife will kill me! Thanks again.

Wright

WSPA-DT is off the air as well at 11:00am this morning.

WSPA-DT is on at 1:20 p.m., but WUNF-DT (33-x) joins the missing WLOS-DT (13-x)

WLOS, WUNF AND WSPA - DT are are all back on now.

FYI,

Charter Cable will begin HDTV service in the Greenville area at the end March. Information received from CSR is:
1. Box rental will cost $3 more per month.
2. Box type probably Motorola 5100.
3. HDTV Channels received for $3:
FOX
NBC
CBS (CSR could not confirm)
HBO-HD with sub.
SHO-HD with sub.
4. Free install(will use Monster Cables)
5. For $6.99 a month extra you will receive HDPAC:
HdNet
HdMovies
ESPN-HD
More to be added later

I was told that work orders would be sent out starting March 22 with installs beginning March 24. I was placed on call back list for install.
If interested call now to be added to the list.

I got the same dates (March 24) for Charter in Asheville. The channels are showing up on the guide. As of 3-11-04 they were:

HDNet
HDMovies
Discovery HD
ESPN HD
HBO HD
SHO HD
WYFF
WSPA

Re WLOS-DT
For those of you having problems with WLOS-DT signals, you can take at look at the antenna radiation pattern at this address:
http://www.fcc.gov/fcc-bin/tvq?facid=56537
The "D" pattern limits the signal from the north, west and south of Mt. Pisgah, especially in view of the signal strength at this time.
There is no new word at this point on the "backordered" equipment needed for WLOS to commence passing ABC HD.

Jerry:

thanks for the info. Just curious, though, why the odd dispersion of the signal. I just assumed (yes, I know that's bad) that the signal would radiate equally. Is it geography, or is there another reason?

Re Directional transmission patterns, the FCC has changed its rules regarding sending strong signals into low density areas, such as coastal cities broadcasting out to sea. It is just as easy to design a directional transmission antenna as it is to design a directional receiving antenna. And power is normally expressed as ERP (effective radiated power) and that is the "antenna gain" times the transmitter power. Reduced transmitter power saves lots of money on the electric bill. My guess is that WLOS started DT operations with a temporary low power transmitter (recently replaced) and initially used the directional pattern to better cover its primary viewing area with the low power. I also assume that will change in the future. I hope to have more information...someday.

Here's a new one: WSPA refuses to show today's South Carolina-Memphis game in HD, despite it being available in HD AND being the game they are showing on their DT channel. The person I talked to at master control said the decision had been made to upconvert all tournament games, EVEN if they are available in HD. He said it was not his decision, and said I should call Sacrea Fareed (I'm guessing at the spelling) at 864-587-4417 to discuss it. She is the "programming coordinator" and it was her decision.
The person at master control admitted there was no reason they couldn't show it; "they just decided not to."

I encourage local viewers to call and complain.

I am very suprised by this from WSPA. Thank goodness for DirecTV.

Of course, I was blacked out on the game via Directv since it was the local SD game. So WSPA managed to make sure I didn't get to see the game in HD.

The way USC played, I didn't miss much.

Jeff- Did you order the NCAA tournament package?

Yes, I ordered the NCAA package. I imagine I will be able to see some of the other HD games thru Directv, if WSPA isn't showing the same game on the SD channel.

Last year, the HD game was blacked out if the SD game was; in other words if your local station was showing the game locally(HD or not).

That stinks. I dont order unless my team is in the tournament. WSPA really should be taken to task. I hope they dont screw us on The Masters.

While I don't how to do it, it seems to me that there ought to be a way to convince the local stations that they are not dealing with a bunch of kooks or yahoos, but people who have demonstrated a willingness to spend dollars, sometimes a lot of dollars, on things we want. In other words, we are probably the advertisers dream customers -- we have money to spend. On this basis, they ought to be courting us, not neglecting us.

Mgtr,
I agree wholeheartedly with your comment. I am always treated like I don't know what I'm talikng about when I contact the station. I WANT to watch their programming. I understand that HDTV doesn't pay the bills for them at the moment, but it is still frustrating.

WSPA ended up showing the HD games last night, even though those games were different than the ones shown on the SD channel. I don't know if they changed their mind, or if the guy I talked to yesterday was full of baloney.

I could see those games in HD on Directv also. So, the game I wanted to see in HD was unavailable to me while the ones I wasn't as interested in were on two channels I could see.

I have sent a brief summary of the concerns to WSPA and have asked for a response by email.

With apologies to the late Charles Schultz:

You're a good man, Jerry Birdwell.

I guess your email worked. I watched the end of the Pacific/Providence game and part of the KU game and it looked fine. I had decided I'd wait to see what they did before I sent them a note. I hope that means the games Sunday will be HD also. Too bad for the gamecocks. Now they can look forward to spring practice (ha!)

Hello to all,

I live on the East side of Spartanburg in the Hillbrook area and am very new to HD. I tried to put up an antenna in my attic, but only got one channel in (WSPA - with a signal that fluctuated between weak and none), so I mounted it on my roof. Alas I now get one channel (WSPA - weak to medium signal), but the sound does not match the video. I am not using an amplifier for the signal, yet. I currently have Direct TV with Tivo. I am now waiting for the Direct TV, Tivo, HD receiver.

Does anyone else have any experience with getting signals in Spartanburg? I am in the process of upgrading my HT, and getting local channels in HD is part of that upgrade. I look forward to future discussions with you guys.

Moechild