Could someone please send me the latest firmware? stjefrey@adelphia.net

Thanks!

I've sent a few emails out but have yet to get a reply, could someone please email me the 125 and/134 firmware update with the update utility? Opinions as to whether you prefer 125 or 134 and why is always welcome. My email address is rtk1999@hotmail.com

"Steve P. at Samsung support "......................

Is this guys e-mail address some where in this thread or can someone provide it?

I finally got to look at my version it's .101 (very early) and would like to try .125. (Seems I understood he would e-mail it or provide a CD?) As they don't have it (that I can see) on their public site.

Thanks in advance.

I'm on ver 101 as well :(

The email address in question:

stevep@sea.samsung.com

Let us know what results you get, if you would.
Merry Christmas to all!

"Let us know what results you get, if you would."

Sure, no problem, with the holidays I don't expect a reply till after the new year. Shoud I hear next week by chance I'll let you know. Thank you for posting the address.

Merry Christmas to you and all.........

Originally posted by smsprague
VideoGrabber,

After talking to Steve P. at Samsung support about my upgrade failures, he said that if you have version 132 which is the factory install of 135 you will not be able to upgrade to 135 or go back to 125. Basically you are stuck with 132. Now this is after he had me send the unit in for upgrade, they did nothing but keep it for a week and return it in a dvd box.
I would recommend you not do anything further; continued attempts to have Samsung "repair" it will only result in them damaging your unit in some way.

More than a few folks here had their SIR-T165 cosmetically mangled by Samsung's repair folks and ended up with an older software revision in the process...

"Let us know what results you get, if you would."

I reveived a e-mail from SteveP tonight after work, it was version .125, I plan on trying it soon, most likely not tonight.

On another matter, I asked about the D* ESPN-HD / FOX-HD stutter issue on the 360's, he said they also know about it but seems they think it's a D* problem somehow. I tend to agree, D* is doing something the 360 does not like, and I've seen this with other receivers mostly OTA stuff where the stations get something wrong with the PSIP streams or their encoders barf big time. FWIW and FYI.

Thanks for the update mikey p -- I will need some one to walk me through this as I may have to implement the upgrade before my vacation ends since another local is threatening to go to the Broadcast Flag.

Emaych......

Bump Bump....... I found a DB9 M to DB9 F serial cable tonight at my local Rat Shack for a nice price which saved a trip to Houston, so a little progress, will attempt over the weekend as I don't have a lap top and need to move something near the 165 (Yes I know a sorry excuse, but work is really a bi**h presently). I will keep you posted as to progress and results. My issue is our local CBS did something that crashes the 165 if I leave it on 11-1 after a record.

Emaych......

Hi, I'm happy to report after just getting finished all went very well, it now has version .125. No problem just like flashing something in a computer, odd (guess it is), anyway after a rescaan / delete all's well with my 165.

Thanks to all on this thread and to SteveP for e-mailing me the flash. ;-)

Thanks mikey p,
I may have to contact you for a step-by-step, but as of now, the local I feared would go broadcast flag has done their changes and I'm still go. I did however get an MDR 200 to tune in and record the one local that the Samsung locks at and now IT is malfunctioning and needs an update and just looking at the instruction sheet it is unclear to me how to proceed --exasperating!

I have a T165 with v112. After reading the stuff about firmware v134, I was wondering if anybody here can email me with v125?

Please PM me. I'd be most grateful. Thanks!

Samsung, or specifically Steve Plechy at Samsung, has been emailing this version (125) out. I have the original firmware 101 in my first unit and have the emailed 125, but just have not wanted to wade into it particularly without a backup, so I just purchased a second 165 that has the v125 already installed. It seems to overcome the broadcast flag impediment AND so far looks like it will be a reliable timer recorder which some have reported problems with. It still does however rely upon the imbedded time signature of each station -- right or wrong -- and behaves the same way in that respect. Maybe that was why people were reporting unreliability. If you want to timer record on a station exhibiting an incorrect time, you have to program in the wrong time you want it to record then leave it on that station as you turn it off. Example: currently my NBC affiliate is off by 8 hours, so instead of programming in 11:34PM-12:36AM, I program in 3:34PM-4:36PM and it is quite reliable.
Anyway, the email address in question is:

stevep@sea.samsung.com

Just want to verify:

I did receive a cable and CD (Office Depot CD-R) by Samsung this past december.

The file for the T165 is "raw.enc, 1829kb, 10-28-2003, 3:55pm".

Is this firmware v134? ( I can't tell when clicking on the firmware thru the STB SW downloader and I haven't connected the T165 with the cable.)

OK, I read the WHOLE thread...whew. And I have a couple questions...

It is implied, but not clear, what exactly the post-upgrade firmware will allow... Does anyone know if the firewire output will be disabled when the flag is seen? The Samsung page says "The Broadcast Flag will not prevent you from making copies of your favorite TV broadcasts." Can they say this because making a crappy s-video copy will still work? How about playing transport streams back from my computer? What if they have the flag?

On another topic, -snip- I answered my own question, and it turned out to be unrelated to firmware or flags...

Zach

I've been using the 165 quite successfully with a Sony 32" (tube type) HDTV and - since fall 2003 - with the JVC 30k for recording (including multiple scheduling). So I've been a bit shocked to read all the problems people have been having and the horrors encountered in trying to update the firmware and - even more - in trying to get Samsung service to fix something. My main gripes have been that the 165 remote won't operate the Sony tube-type HDTVs, and of course the recording difficulties caused by the fact that 1) the 165 picks up the supposed time signals from individual DTV stations, rather than from the power cord, like any sensible component does, and 2) when the 165 turns on to make a scheduled recording, it turns itself off if it finds the time according to the station it is scheduled to record from is 2 or 3 minutes AFTER the time that the timer was set for, instead of simply starting the recording like any modern VCR would do.

Anyway, I finally went and used the info on some earlier posts to find the firmware version for my unit, which I purchased in April or May 2003...I found the first (leftmost) number to be S_TIROS3_101. I gather that this is bad bad bad. (So what are the second and third numbers for?)

If I understand correctly, this means I should either sign up to get a CD and cable from Samsung OR get somebody to send me version 125, or BOTH, if I want to have the cable to upload 125? Of course, like others, I would find it unappealing to do these considering things have been running fine for me (other than the problems with the remote and the station times). Is there any downside to just waiting until the broadcast flag problem appears, or until I need to use the DVI connection (I now use component cables), e.g., when I want to connect another receiver, e.g., one with a hard-drive recorder?

I'm intent on getting clear with these issues because I DO have a new problem, probably a hardware issue with the 165...i.e., when watching an HD program, either off the air directly or from a tape in the JVC, at some point - maybe after 15 minutes, maybe after more - the picture's color balance will shift suddenly (i.e., over a second or so) and strongly into the pastels. So many programs will then have a LOT of pink and aqua, etc. This condition will remain until I turn off the unit. If I just turn it off and on, it comes back with the right color balance. Since this happens both directly off air and with playing back a D-VHS tape through the 165, I assume it's something amiss in the generation of the HD signal sent to the TV. I've thought it isn't with the TV, because there isn't any problem with other kinds of programming on the TV, and it isn't turning the TELEVISION on and off that restores the right balance....I've been thinking about buying a new inexpensive OTA receiver just to make sure of this. Furthermore, this would give me something to continue watching (albeit not recording) high-def while the 165 gets looked at by Samsung ??!!??!!?? Note my perplexity at the last! It seems like I'd be crazy to let them have at the unit, given how they seem to screw up with known problems, let alone intermittent hardware problems. Are there any alternatives???

Thanks - Tony

One of my T165s has the original (101) firmware -- the one problem it has is the BF issue -- that is the only one (except for relying on the stations time, etc,, which is a design issue). I bought another 165 that already had the 125 in it. Works perfectly so far. You DO NOT want the v132, as apparently it disallows multiple recording scheduling AND will not let you go back to any earlier firmware -- VERY CRITICAL!

Originally posted by Emaych
One of my T165s has the original (101) firmware -- the one problem it has is the BF issue -- that is the only one (except for relying on the stations time, etc,, which is a design issue). I bought another 165 that already had the 125 in it. Works perfectly so far. You DO NOT want the v132, as apparently it disallows multiple recording scheduling AND will not let you go back to any earlier firmware -- VERY CRITICAL!

I have 132, so I can not go back to 125 then :mad:
What happens if you try? Will I "kill" it if I try to load 125?

From what I have read herein, you get a warning of "VERSION COMPARE ERROR", which I guess signifies that v132 was implemented in such a way as to make backtracking unsuccessful, which is a predicament if it does not work correctly. Don't know what it was initially devised to correct, but Samsung advised that the v125 corrects all that needs be corrected.
Will someone who has recently purchased a refurb on eBay chime in as to what version firmware they are getting? Ads say the latest upgrades, but if that upgrade is faulty and Samsung advises toward the v!25, it may be reasonable to conclude that that is what they are refurbing them to (i.e., v125).

could you upgrade the unit to v134 and then go back to 125? If the 134 doesn't have that block on earlier firmware, that might work, no?

Mine was upgraded to 134 from an earlier version. So, maybe I can go back?
I don't have the cable anyway, a friend had it.
But I'd like to know if I need to get it back and change the firmware to 125.

If you experience no problems, I don't know why anyone would want to go back and forth on the versions, including up from the original, but don't know about 134 specifically. I do think think there is alot of variability of results out there, including the upgrade not taking until after many tries, so I can't see how trying would hurt, unless one of the variable forms it takes is convert-your-STB-to-a-doorstop upgrade, which certainly may be possible. I am so leary of it that while my original T165 required upgrade due to the BF issue on one station, my solution was just to get another 165 with the v125 already in it. I can use the other STB to match to a third 30K, but I will resist upgrading until a few more stations go BF.

"but don't know about 134 specifically......."

There is some issue in this thread about version 134/135 seems one of these or both leave you stuck (can't go back to earlier version), and when I e-mailed SteveP for the firmware, he sent 125. I would read this thread backward until you read about this, before flashing to version 134/135. Only my sort of bad memory on this so YMMV.

Originally posted by mikey p
...There is some issue in this thread about version 134/135 seems one of these or both leave you stuck (can't go back to earlier version), and when I e-mailed SteveP for the firmware, he sent 125.

My own experience:
1) Flashed from original FW (unknown version) to v125 in order to control centering of DVI output (no trouble flashing, but lost analog output to VCR when in 720p mode.)

2) Flashed from v125 to v134 to fix analog out for 720p (no trouble flashing, but lost ability to record with *any* reliability to JVC 30k.)

3) Flashed back to v125 from v134 (no trouble flashing, and now recording to JVC 30k works well, subject to inherent design flaw of obtaining T165 time setting from PSIPs.) Since I now have the JVC 30k, I no longer have reason to record to the analog output in 720p mode (unless my 30k tape was full and I had more recording to do....), so that's no longer much of an issue.

No trouble with the BF, if it's in use yet in the NYC area. From prior postings, I think the "Version Compare Error" is with units *manufactured* with v132? If you have *any* potential plans of using a D-VHS recorder with the T165, I'd strongly advise NOT to update to v134 (which was on the Samsung BF update CD, mislabeled as v132.) I think v119 or higher (mft after Nov. '02) are OK with the BF. Steve Plechy provides v125.

Good real-world info rChaz. Most of what I've learned about these issues comes from the anecdotal posts here. I think I've spared myself some nasty missteps by applying myself and reading through them, but in order to benefit, someone has to be posting their experiences. Thanks.

I had the following email conversation with Steve from Samsung this morning:

me: "What will the updated box(125) do when it sees the flag?? Disable firewire out? Disable DVI out?"

SteveP: "Neither it will simply prevent it from being recorded digitally after the upgrade. Firewire recording is analog. "

Firewire=analog? Can anyone make sense of this for me?

I don't know if there is much sense to be made of Steve P.'s comments, I can say I was very disappointed in the email contact I had with him -- he could have turned my negative appraisal of Samsung around somewhat, but instead entrenched it.

You may be confused here about the nature of the Broadcast Flag malfunction of these boxes. As stations convert to this signal all these recievers are supposed to do is just ignore it but pass it along via firewire to wherever you are directing the data stream -- you would never know a station was or was not being broadcast with the inclusion of these extra bits. Instead of this perfectly reasonable design, Samsung has given us a defective design which, when picking up the BF, completely locks up the box -- it goes into repeated rebooting mode whereby one cannot even change the station without unplugging the antenna. The upgrade to 125 still glitches occaisionally on the BF, but rights itself by tuning into the station. For these boxes the BF has no other effect. I assume the implementation of any copy-guarding functionality of the BF comes from the firewire feed to a recorder that then responds accordingly. The design defect of the T165 is not related to any copy-guarding fuction intended by the BF -- it just doesn't digest them (the extra BF bits) properly.

Hope that helps.

I'm afraid I am stunned by the statement that firewire is analog!

Furthermore, I thought the broadcast flag was intended to prevent unauthorized copying of materials and that it was the Samsung, not the recorder, that would administer this restriction.

Am I wrong? Tony

To be fair to Steve I need to post some of the later dialog. He was very helpful...

SteveP: "Firewire out of the unit is recorded in analog on dvhs machines. The broadcastflag prohibits digital recording. I was more meaning the dvhs is analog. If you connected the 165 to a pc and managed to have it work you would not be able to view broadcastflag copy protected programs on your pc because it would be digital."

So the updated machines will still output the stream via firewire... But is it up to the recorder to decide if it can be recorded? Is Apple's VirtualDVHS broadcast flag compliant? iRecord? The XP equivalent? How will they handle the flag?

Yeah, I'm not really convinced that every box will choke on the flag...but someone posted in this thread that they have seen it happen when testing the flag. Why doesn't my SIR-T150(older than 165) need an upgrade? I know it has no 1394 out, but why will be able to display the flagged streams and the 165 will not? Anyway, I'm certainly not upgrading until my box has issues...

Originally posted by zmatzkin
SteveP: "Firewire out of the unit is recorded in analog on dvhs machines. The broadcastflag prohibits digital recording. I was more meaning the dvhs is analog. If you connected the 165 to a pc and managed to have it work you would not be able to view broadcastflag copy protected programs on your pc because it would be digital."

No way is the firewire output from the T165 analog - it is digital. The only way to record digital signal to the D-VHS is by using the firewire connection. Let me repeat: to record digitally to a D-VHS from the T165 you must connect via firewire. To record analog from the T165 to a D-VHS, you must use the S-VHS or composite RCA jack outputs. Anyone who tells you differently is confused.

Barring a hardware or connection problem, if you record a digital OTA broadcast signal from the T165 to a D-VHS via firewire, the playback signal is the same quality and content as the original broadcast signal. The signal is recorded exactly as broadcast, and is not converted to analog at any point in the process of being recorded to the D-VHS through firewire. Your recorded playback will look just as good as the OTA broadcast arrived. If you can view the OTA broadcast on your TV from the T165, you can record and playback the original OTA broadcast signal using D-VHS connected with firewire to the T165.

Originally posted by rChaz
If you can view the OTA broadcast on your TV from the T165, you can record and playback the original OTA broadcast signal using D-VHS connected with firewire to the T165.

This is obviously true right now. I do it every day. Why do you think I am so worried about losing this functionality? But does anyone know how it will change when the flags are turned on? From what Steve says, the firewire will still output, putting the flag compliance on the recorder... What we need is a list of recording methods and how they will respond to the flag... I would love to get a stream that has the flag to test with.

Once again, the T165 MALFUNCTION that is the result of a firmware DESIGN FLAW which causes the unit to lock up on signals having the BF in them, HAS NOTHING TO DO with any implementation of the BF standard as it pertains to what can be recorded or not. It is a design flaw, a malfunction -- the unit will not only not display anything, it goes into fits: flashing HELLO on the front panel display and continually rebooting. It does not know what to do with the BF. When upgraded, it should behave normally -- which is not to do ANTHING when it sees the flag -- just ignore it.

In my understanding, the BF is different from 5C protections -- if I am correct, the 30K will record any level of BF implementation, but you cannot transmit the signal over the internet or PC systems. 5C on the other hand may be perfectly PLAYABLE on your 30K as with DTHEATER tapes and EVEN TRANSMITTED by firewire, but if you feed that firewire signal into a 30K and press RECORD (actually PLAY and RECORD), you will get an onscreen warning that it is not recordable. Stop trying to record, and you will get a transmission of the protected content -- from one 30K though firewire to another 30K and out through the analogue component outputs of the endpoint 30K, and you can WATCH it no problem. I think this is how it works, but stand to be corrected if someone has better information.

Originally posted by Emaych
In my understanding, the BF is different from 5C protections -- if I am correct, the 30K will record any level of BF implementation, but you cannot transmit the signal over the internet or PC systems. 5C on the other hand may be perfectly PLAYABLE on your 30K as with DTHEATER tapes and EVEN TRANSMITTED by firewire, but if you feed that firewire signal into a 30K and press RECORD (actually PLAY and RECORD), you will get an onscreen warning that it is not recordable. Stop trying to record, and you will get a transmission of the protected content -- from one 30K though firewire to another 30K and out through the analogue component outputs of the endpoint 30K, and you can WATCH it no problem. I think this is how it works, but stand to be corrected if someone has better information.

Any idea how the other recording solutions will respond? I record directly from the 165 to my Mac...and play the edited streams back to the 165...

No idea -- in fact I am not 100% certain of my previous post but I put it out there because that is the current state of my understanding (which I would like to have corrected if someone has better knowledge).

Emaych: I think your comments on firewire regarding digital are right on.

As for your distinction between BF and 5C, I had presumed they were both intended to implement the same thing, i.e., preventing faithful recording of protected digital content. But I realize that you are probably right, i.e., that one can still use the JVC to record BROADCAST material that is protected, but one cannot then run it back through a device to make another digital copy or transmit it via the internet. But I can't quite figure out which device is doing what in terms of providing that copyright protection....

Shouldn't this have been discussed in one of the other forums???

Tony

PS: I in fact found a thread that, in part, discusses the 5C standard, though not how it applies to particular devices, or how it relates to the broadcast flag. Here is an attempt (I'm a newbie) to link to that thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=438767&highlight=5C

Furthermore, one of the posts gives a link to an FCC on DCTP (digital content transmission protection), which is: http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/ecfs/retrieve.cgi?native_or_pdf=pdf&id_document=6516082666

This document is very detailed, and that is true even of the non-technical summary at the beginning.

Hi folks…yesterday I sought a copy of the file for updating to the 125 firmware version, after finding that my unit has version 101. For your information, the relevant files for this (and a number of other Samsung products) are now on an email account at Gmail from which anyone can download.

The Gmail site is at www.gmail.com and the account with these files has username "samsungtech" and password "techsamsung". On accessing the account, you will see a dozen or so messages, typically with attachments, and the one for version 125 is toward the bottom of the list with a title "165 version 125". If you open this message by clicking on it, you will see the file name "165broadcastflagversion125.rar", and by clicking on the download link below the name, the file will be downloaded to your computer in the usual way.

This is a "rar" file, rather than a "zip" file because Gmail will not accept zip files. To uncompress the rar file, you need a program entitled (not surprisingly) "Winrar", which can be obtained via a message higher up on the Gmail account's list of messages and entitled "where to get Winrar , free download". Clicking to open this message will show a link to the RarLab download page, where the first item is Winrar. Click on Winrar to download it for installation to your computer.

If you go to the downloaded Winrar file (which is an .exe file), double clicking on it will install this little program to your computer. Note that a screen will come up asking which file types should be "associated" with Winrar, and many file types are checked by default. I unchecked all these types except for "rar", and you will probably want to do the same. (Winrar, like Winzip, is a program that you can use for a specified period free, but after a time - in this case 40 days - they will ask you to pay for it. For this reason, I used the program immediately instead of waiting until I actually want to use update my unit.)

Once Winrar is installed, you can go to the "165broadcastflagversion125.rar" file, and double click on it to "unrar" it to several files needed for the update and that will be placed in whatever directory you specify. One of the resulting files is a Word file with instructions on how to use these files to update the firmware in the 165. (For those who haven't uncompressed files very often, I have been fairly explicit about the process.)

Because my unit hasn't had any problems related to these updates, I'm not using these files now, but I did have a look at the Word document giving instructions. It is entitled "SIR-T165 rgb/dvi shift instructions." So I guess this is a version intended to fix the horizontal shift problem mentioned in this thread, which is good because I may want to switch to a DVI cable later. (However, it may also be the version that is related to the "(not) always on' analog output.) The main reason I wanted the update was to avoid a problem with the broadcast flag when or if they start being used more, and I assume - based on the Samsung document on the broadcast flag - that version 125 includes that update. Finally, version 125 is NOT supposed to include the problem that messes up multiple scheduled recordings on the jvc 30000, which I use a lot.

Anyway, this is just to let other people know about this site for downloads.

Tony

Originally posted by avnstf
...just to let other people know about this site for downloads....
Thanks for the info.

FYI,
I did a binary file version-compare on the "v132" patch at that site. As with the Samsung BF update CD (which was labeled v133, but was actually v134), this patch is actually v134 and merely mislabeled as v132. It will ruin your D-VHS scheduled recording reliability.

The v125 at the site is properly labeled and is the same firmware that will provide you with a blank green screen if for some reason you use the T165 analog output while the T165 resolution is configured for 720p. Otherwise, it does provide DVI-centering & reliable D-VHS scheduled recordings. I currently use this version.

Originally posted by avnstf
The Gmail site is at www.gmail.com and the account with these files has username "samsungtech" and password "techsamsung". On accessing the account, you will see a dozen or so messages, typically with attachments, and the one for version 125 is toward the bottom of the list with a title "165 version 125". Tony

Yes,
Thank you for the files!!!

The gmail account is a great idea for sharing files.

rChaz: I kind of assumed that was the case for the "132" patch, but wasn't in a position check it. Thanks for clarifying that!

avnstf,
Nice way to share the files ;)
btw you have 10 Invites available.
I do not need any. What is that txpqamupgrade for?

Bless you Tony! I too have the v101 in one of my units and will need to go through this procedure at some point. I have never dealt with compressed files before, so what I couldn't seem to get and no one would explain, is how one applies something like WinZip to the target file. I see from your explanation that there appears a pop-up that lets you associate it with certain of your files. I'm assuming then that when you just double-click the actual assemblage of files, they break into component headings that you can store in a place like "DOCUMENTS" for later use. Now once that is done, you operate from the instructions component file and can freely manipulate all the rest of what you are going to put to work? Also, once the component files are stored over at DOCUMENTS or someplace else, you no longer need WinZip or Winrar?, so can terminate your "subscription" immediately thereafter?
I needed a very explicit rundown of the exact sequence of steps to perform and you have gone to alot of trouble to provide that, so you have my thanks! Maybe things might have become apparent as I tried to manipulate things, but I much prefer to know what it is I'm going to be looking at and have some idea how to proceed before messing around with something alot of folks have found dicey as far as getting a successful result.
Another question I can think of here -- when I did do some clicking around on my stored zip file of the v125, I got a pop-up that seemed to offer the opening of this file, even though I never went to the WinZip sight to download it. Is it possible that my Windows XP would already have an alternate means of getting into it? I will go back to that sequence of steps so I can be more explicit about what I see and get back over here.

OK, when I right-click on the zip file, then click on "OPEN" I get a screen that shows five headings. When I open the first one entitled "165update", it gives a set of instructions including the fact that I will get all the rest of the ennumerated files appearing. Does being able to read this and see the component files displayed this way indicate that I have already unzipped the zip file that was sent?

Originally posted by Diode1
avnstf,
Nice way to share the files ;)
btw you have 10 Invites available.
I do not need any. What is that txpqamupgrade for?

I didn't set up the bunch of downloads, just passed the info along from an unnamed person.

What does "10 Invites available" refer to? And I don't know what most of the available downloads are for...


Emaych: "OK, when I right-click on the zip file, then click on "OPEN" I get a screen that shows five headings. When I open the first one entitled "165update", it gives a set of instructions including the fact that I will get all the rest of the ennumerated files appearing. Does being able to read this and see the component files displayed this way indicate that I have already unzipped the zip file that was sent?"

The fact that you can read the Word document shouldmean that the files are unrared....In that case, those 5 files should all be in a directory somewhere, probably within the directory where you downloaded the .rar file. If you can't find those files, you can't use them for the upgrade, so look around!

10 invites means that that account can "invite" 10 people to get a gmail email account.
All it does is email a link to a code to get an account and adds that person who signs up to the original accounts Contacts list.

Tony:
Yes all the files are at hand, displayed alongside the instruction file. I was pretty sure they had been separated out, but since I don't know how that happened, I was just making sure. When I have more time, I will ask some questions about the instructions themselves, which are seemingly written by someone not too conversant with the English language -- there are some pretty incomprehensible sentences in there. Thank you for your ongoing help.

I get 'version compare error' when trying to load both the 125 and 132 files from that G-mail account. Anyone else have problems or able to correct mine?

Originally posted by weebling1
I get 'version compare error' when trying to load both the 125 and 132 files from that G-mail account. Anyone else have problems or able to correct mine? The 'version compare error' is thought to happen when the T165 was manufactured with v132 at the factory. As far as I know, no-one has been able to have this fixed. It seems to require a mainboard replacement in order to change the firmware version, but results of sending it in to Samsung for repair mostly seems to result in dings & scratches and nothing fixed.

edit: Do you have v132 on the T165? (Per the on-screen check explained elsewhere in this thread.) If so, do you have problems recording to D-VHS? If not, maybe v132 is otherwise OK, since it shouldn't have trouble with the BF...

Originally posted by rChaz
The 'version compare error' is thought to happen when the T165 was manufactured with v132 at the factory. As far as I know, no-one has been able to have this fixed. It seems to require a mainboard replacement in order to change the firmware version, but results of sending it in to Samsung for repair mostly seems to result in dings & scratches and nothing fixed. That's pretty much it... Samsung repair will often end up damaging the unit cosmetically, or will leave off parts, etc., but you will get back either the same software revision or, if they swap out the mainboard, perhaps an older revision... :mad:

The fun part is even my damaged unit with the older software would suffer the Version Compare Error when attempting to update it to v134, so in most cases you're best off letting it be unless you've got something old enough that it won't work with the BF, per Samsung's support web site...

after doing the remote check, I have ver 1.32. I WAS trying to repair the INCREDIBLY ANNOYING BF endless reboot problem which I encounter more and more often on the shows I want to see here on Seattle.

I guess Samsung was wrong yet again when they indicated versions greater than 119 should be OK with the BF? They've really dropped the ball on their testing of this unit & it's various flawed firmwares. Choose your poison. Too bad, since it's otherwise a nice machine.

To address my BF issue, I got a used T165 that had v125 in it (I had the seller check by the onscreen method). When scanning channels, I noticed it go into the HELLO when it landed on the one in the area that causes reboot on my v101 T165 -- of course I thought here we go again, but it corrected and eventually added it. Since then it has briefly gone into the reboot bit on that channel , but ultimately tunes it in. There seems to be some residual lock-up, but it has solved my case for the most part. Timer recordings seem to work fine too.

Note that the BF is not necessarily the cause of the reboots.

The T165 will "get stuck" and remain in "Hello" mode when encountering a station with bad or unexpected PSIP data and will stay there no matter what you do untill you remove the antenna connection from the unit.

The firmware revision only fixed the problem where the BF caused the unit to do this; bad PSIP data will still send the unit into a catatonic state, no matter what your firmware revision.

By the way, as I mentioned earlier, I haven't been in any hurry to update my version 101 unit, since it hasn't caused me any trouble so far.
On another note, I just got myself one of the LG 3410As, to set up in parallel with my 165/JVC combo. THe unit came with a DVI, in contrast to the high-end component cables I've been using with the 165.

I soon realized that the picture from the new unit had a darker cast than that from the 165 - overall seemed more shade, and the colors were not as bright. So I took the DVI cable from the new unit, and hooked it up to the 165.

First, there was no horizontal shift, at least on the program I was looking at, which was a D-VHS tape of a high-def program. Did people with version 101 experience the shift on HD programs?

I then switched back and forth between the component and DVI cables, watching the same program from the 165, and it seemed clear that the DVI gave a darker cast than the component cables. Adjusting the color balance, etc, on my Sony CRT HDTV affected BOTH pictures, so it didn't make up for the different in the two...It me, because I don't want to be trying to adjust the color every time I switch between the two units. (THe settings I been using are the standard setting of the Sony, and they've been very satisfactory with the 165.) I have yet to attach component cables to the 3410A, in parallel with the DVI cable, to see if I see the same color shift between the cables when both are attached to the 3410A. (Switching cables takes some work because the unit I have the TV on is cramped for space with the total of 4 devices I have in it....)

I know there has been some discussion elsewhere of the effect of different types of cables, but has anyone seen a shift of color like this. (The color using the component cables has been very good, with a lot of depth, and I would not have expected DVI to do worse...)

Thanks - Tony

DVI from a comcast DVR results in a washed out picture for me compared to the component out.

My picture isn't washed out, just has a slightly darker cast. Is it possible that the Comcast isn't conveying the full HD signal, but rather some sort of version that has lesser info?

I'm not sure how the HD content is transmitted, either OTA or via cable, OR what happens to the digital signal in the receiver or cable box.

Assuming the full digital content is the output to the DVI, I would assume that's what goes to the TV and that's the maximum info you can possibly send. I had also assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that component or other non-digital cables could never send quite as much info, although maybe it could be close for component.

Perhaps someone out there has an opinion about this???

Originally posted by avnstf
My picture isn't washed out, just has a slightly darker cast. Is it possible that the Comcast isn't conveying the full HD signal, but rather some sort of version that has lesser info?

I'm not sure how the HD content is transmitted, either OTA or via cable, OR what happens to the digital signal in the receiver or cable box.

Assuming the full digital content is the output to the DVI, I would assume that's what goes to the TV and that's the maximum info you can possibly send. I had also assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that component or other non-digital cables could never send quite as much info, although maybe it could be close for component.

Perhaps someone out there has an opinion about this???
Don't forget that each different input to a television (DVI, component, tuner) runs through different circuitry. Each input (especially each kind of input) has separate brightness level and contrast gain. So even if the output of the Comcast box was ideal in black level and contrast, there will usually still be differences depending on which TV input you use.

Some TVs (Sony) have separate service menu brightness and contrast values for each input or group of inputs.

I just dedicate one of the Sony's "picture modes" for the DVI input (which requires more contrast and brightness than the other inputs). I use Pro for the DVI input, Movie for the component inputs, and Standard for the tuner "input".

If I wasn't a Service Menu wimp, I'd go in there and adjust the per-input levels to give comparable results.

JimProuty: Yes, the different inputs go through different circuitry. But I would have thought that the factory set color balances, etc, would be adjusted so they gave more or less the same result....

My Sony allows me to choose standard, pro, etc, as well as to make my own adjustments for particular parameters, but my testing indicates that whatever settings I choose apply to ALL inputs...this puts me in the position of having different sources (of even the same programming) that look substantially different....or maybe I'm missing something here. Tony

Originally posted by avnstf
JimProuty: Yes, the different inputs go through different circuitry. But I would have thought that the factory set color balances, etc, would be adjusted so they gave more or less the same result....

My Sony allows me to choose standard, pro, etc, as well as to make my own adjustments for particular parameters, but my testing indicates that whatever settings I choose apply to ALL inputs...this puts me in the position of having different sources (of even the same programming) that look substantially different....or maybe I'm missing something here. Tony

If you are missing something, it is that I also manually switch the picture mode when I switch the TV to another input. When I adjust my Pro setting to have more contrast, saturation, so that it makes the DVI input look good, that Pro setting is completely useless for other inputs. For those inputs I use a different picture mode, as I described above.

To make the levels for each input appear identical requires service adjustments. Ideally they wouldn't be necessary because all manufacturers would adhere to standard practices. Samsung, for one, apparently does not.

Samsung repair basically said service menu adjustment was their recommended workaround for the Samsung SIRT-165's weak DVI output levels.

Edit: I shouldn't have said "Samsung SIRT-165's weak DVI output levels" without actually knowing if the 165's digital output is rescaled from what's encoded in the digital stream. What I should have said is "Samsung has recommended adjusting the service menu of the TV's DVI input gain to match the contrast and brightness of other signals sent to the TV."

Jim: DVI, as a digital output, should not have "weak" levels; a digital signal is either working or not. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, the DVI output from my new LG 3410A is indistinguishable from the DVI output of the 165. From this point of view, it would normally be the component signal that is open to question. But maybe I am misunderstanding something.

I haven' t yet made a direct comparison of the component output of the 3410A with its DVI output. I'm kind of hoping that they are indistinguishable, because that would mean that the 165 DVI output is indistinguishable from the 3410A component output, and I could then set up the cables so that the same color setting would work for both HD sources...

Of course, it's always possible that the LG-supplied DVI cable is at fault, but that shouldn't be possible because, as I said above, digital is digital, and if you're getting the signal, you're getting the signal!

As indicated, I'm still hoping to have 2 inputs that are compatible with the same HDTV color settings.

Anyway, let me know if you disagree with my understanding above.

Thanks - Tony

PS: you have helped already indicating that we can basically define different sets of Pro, Standard, etc., settings! Just hope I don't have to rely on that...

Originally posted by avnstf
Jim: DVI, as a digital output, should not have "weak" levels; a digital signal is either working or not. Furthermore, as far as I can tell, the DVI output from my new LG 3410A is indistinguishable from the DVI output of the 165. From this point of view, it would normally be the component signal that is open to question. But maybe I am misunderstanding something.

The DVI digital signal isn't weak (I've retracted that mis-statement in my edited post), the amplification in the TV is too weak. See below.

I haven' t yet made a direct comparison of the component output of the 3410A with its DVI output. I'm kind of hoping that they are indistinguishable, because that would mean that the 165 DVI output is indistinguishable from the 3410A component output, and I could then set up the cables so that the same color setting would work for both HD sources...

Of course, it's always possible that the LG-supplied DVI cable is at fault, but that shouldn't be possible because, as I said above, digital is digital, and if you're getting the signal, you're getting the signal!


It is not the cable, for the reasons you give. It is the TV gain circuitry (either digital or analog gain control for the DVI input). The circuitry is working, it is just supplying a too-small signal to what eventually becomes the stream of electrons that drive the red, green, and blue CRT guns.

You know that the analog inputs at some point are amplified into the huge signals required to drive the CRTs, and the digital signals are also at some point converted to analog and amplified to drive the CRTs. Those amplified signals are not matched unless the input signal * channel gain = same CRT drive signal. You can see that varying either input signal or channel gain can give you the same CRT brightness. We think of the "Contrast" control as the only varying component of "channel gain". But an additional multiplier in "channel gain" is the fixed gain of the input amplifiers and the variable gain controlled by the service menu. Only that last part will help us reach matched-gain nirvana.

Jim: what you describe would have to be considered a defect in the TV's conditioning/amplification circuitry for generating the required voltages...currents (whatever) for driving the CRT. (The point of a digital signal is that it's bits...if the bits are "on" and "off" as controlled ultimately by the digital signal transmitted over the air - or via cable... - that's all the information the DVI cable is supposed to convey.)

You seem to have the same understanding I do here. If we DO, I'm actually tempted to have a good talk with the dealer I bought the TV from...if the thing can be adjusted so one doesn't have to forever be switching the video, maybe it's worth having it done, especially since it's still on warranty....but I won't bring this up until AFTER I compare the response of both the DVI and component cables from the 3410A.

By the way, what kind of DVI cable do you use...I am curious to know if the cables DO make a difference. If so, it would be because it degrades the bit stream below specs, or otherwise messes things up, I think.

Thanks - Tony

Well, with a digital signal, it'll either be there or not. If the signal is degraded to the point that it effects the operation, then you wont have the signal. The same goes for digital audio coax cables. The signal is either there or it isn't. Thats the great thing about digital is that if you get the signal, then you get the exact same signal the device output. Now, whether or not the TV properly converts the digital signal to analog rgb is another question that I cannot answer.

Jim: in playing around with my Sony, I happened to hit a button that I hadn't tried in a year or so, and found that it switched the video mode, e.g., from standard to pro....so I can see it's not as messy to switch modes when I switch inputs, e.g., from 165 (component) to 3410A(DVI)....still rather not do it....sorry I've been off topic here so much...Tony

Originally posted by avnstf
By the way, what kind of DVI cable do you use...I am curious to know if the cables DO make a difference. If so, it would be because it degrades the bit stream below specs, or otherwise messes things up, I think.

Thanks - Tony Long ago I bought a 13 ft DVI Cable from Pacific Cables (http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=DVISL-4) which has served me well.

I'd be totally shocked if your problem was the cable.

Jim: So would I, but I was curious - Tony

I was considering buying a refurbished T165, now I am not so sure. Having the firewire would be very nice for playing files off of my Mac.

Originally posted by xmltok
I was considering buying a refurbished T165, now I am not so sure. Having the firewire would be very nice for playing files off of my Mac.

where do you get refurbished 165s?

Refurbs can be found on eBay from a couple of outlets, but might not be the way to go as they may have the newer more defective firmware in them and they won't tell you what it is before you buy. I might look in the same place for a used one where someone willing can verify that you will be getting the v125 already present. Might not hurt to ask if it works properly too.

Can someone please explain to me how to use the horizontal shift menu available from the MTS button? I do not understand the meaning of the popup menu.
I'd also like to know if there is a way to increase the brightness of dark scenes from the T165, my plasma is having a hard time with some of the darker scenes.

Anyone have problems uploading software to their units?

Mine does the continual reboot problem on several channels so I was wondering if I have the broadcast flag issue.

I tried uploading the v 125 firmware yesterday but couldn't get it to complete. In all cases the download starts but then it would stop after it reached different number of bytes. I tried three different computers and I couldn't ever get past 3% complete.

Shawn

The thread below has instructions on how to configure an XP computer to capture digital terrestrial broadcast streams via Firewire. It works very well. I am concerned when the "broadcast flag" is used and the firmware on the T165 is updated, recording via 1394 to my XP computer may no longer work. My T165 was manufactured Dec 2002 and currently has firmware version 116.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=403695&highlight=firewire+capdvhs

According to the thread above, the XP computer is telling the Samsung T165 that a "Panasonic D-VHS AV/C Device" is connected, it might still work with the newer firmware versions. What we really need, is forum members who live in an area where a local broadcaster is currently using the BF, to test both old and new fireware versions with an actual D-VHS recorder and with a computer telling the T165 it is a "Panasonic D-VHS AV/C Device" as per the thread above.

When they turn on the "Broadcast Flag" in my area I will do my part and report back to the forum. I have the new firmware on CD from from Samsung but will not upgrade unless my T165 becomes unusable when the BF is used by my local broadcasters.

Later
Ron

You are playing the edited streams back into the T165 via the firewire input using your MAC, correct? Since I can capture the streams from my T165 onto my XP machine, is anyone aware of a way to play them back into the T165 via Firewire using an XP computer? Capturing the streams does not load my XP box; however, I barely have enough horse-power to play back my HD transport stream captures. If I could play my captured HD streams back to the T165 via the Firewire input, I assume the T165 would be doing all the hard work, correct? IE.. no more CPU load than the capture process. Side question, what is the maximum cable length for the 1394 100Mbps interface?

Originally posted by zmatzkin
Any idea how the other recording solutions will respond? I record directly from the 165 to my Mac...and play the edited streams back to the 165...

I also cannot get my t165 firmware to update, it always freezes any where from 3-5%. I called samsung tech support and they said it would need to be serviced so the tech transferred me to another lady to set it up. She said that since my box is over 1 yr old they would not service it, and that I would have to send it to a repair company that would charge $250....Doesnt seem fair.... :(

Based on my experience - Don't send your box into Samsung. My unit has the same freeze issue at the 3-5% point. Below is a summary of my experience on this.

After talking to Steve P. at Samsung support about my upgrade failures, he said that if you have version 132 which is the factory install of 135 you will not be able to upgrade to 135 or go back to 125. Basically you are stuck with 132. Now this is after he had me send the unit in for upgrade, they did nothing but keep it for a week and return it in a dvd box. He also initially claimed that I could upgrade to version 135 or 125.

"After talking to Steve P. at Samsung support about my upgrade failures, he said that if you have version 132 which is the factory install of 135 you will not be able to upgrade to 135 or go back to 125. Basically you are stuck with 132."

Thanks for the info. I think my unit may have v132 in it. I wanted to try a different firmware version as my unit was rebooting continuously on at least two different channels (ABC,CBS) coming out of Boston.

Shawn

In Tucson I only have the issue with PBS. They have 5 sub channels and during the night 4 do not broadcast, if I go to one of those the unit continually reboots until I disconnect the antenna. Samsung says PBS is sending a bad PSIP table. PBS says the Samsung box is a piece of @&%*. Unfortunately I have to agree with PBS.

"PBS says the Samsung box is a piece of @&%*. Unfortunately I have to agree with PBS."

Seems that way. My box reboots on UPN too. So far the only channel that I know is still working is FOX.

Any other *working* units that have firewire that works with D-VHS recorders?

Shawn

After reading this thread, my future options with the Samsung T165 seem dismal.

I currently have firmware version 112 on my Samsung T165 which was manufactured in Dec 2002. I currently have no problems with my T165. I can even record via firewire into my XP computer. Since I purchased my T165 almost a year ago and the "broadcast flag" will most certainly be used by most stations in the next several months, I need to make a decision on attempting a firmware upgrade. My only other options are do nothing and face owning a "boat-anchor" or send the unit to Samsung before the one year purchase date. Sounds like sending the unit to Samsung is not a very good option, IE.. they do nothing, charge $250 to maybe do nothing, break the unit, upgrade the unit with a version of firmware that does not allow any further firmware upgrades or downgrades.

I received the firmware on CD from Samsung last week and I also have version 125.

From what I have read, upgrading to firmwire version 125 might be my best option. Assuming the unit is not faulty and I can upgrade to Version 125, does the upgrade allow me to save my current firmware version? If not, is there any known method to save my current fireware version? What I would like to do is upgrade to version 125 and then have the option of rolling back to my current or any other firmware version. Sure would be nice if my current firmware would simply ignore the "Broadcast Flag" , as it should, since it was manufactured and purchased well before the pending FCC deadline.

Another option, wait to see if my T165 has a problem with the BF then attempt a fireware upgrade; however, this might cost me $250.

Any advice as to the best way to proceed would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
Ron

I have an even older unit that has not been "upgraded" and another that has the v125 in it -- made sure it was there before I purchased -- v125 works fine on all counts to my knowledge but I don't use the DVI or some other features. I intend to wait on the firmware installation until I can resist no longer, then attempt it myself. If that fails, I will probably (since I won't waste much time pleading with them) take Samsung to small claims court on the account of selling me a defective device. I would expect to recover the funds necessary to purchase a v125 unit used, since this will be how I appraise its current market value.
Samsung really has to be kidding with charging the consumer for their defect -- ridiculous! They sold you the box with the defect in it AS IT WAS SUPPOSED TO IGNORE THE BROADCAST FLAG! The fact that the defect is made manifest after expiration of warranty, is immaterial -- I'm sure you bought a box with the intention of it working beyond a year right? And they did not provide specific warning on the box that its merchantability was set to expire in a year, so THEY OWE YOU. At the very least, they will have to send a representative to court or not -- in which case, they lose by default. Sorry, I just don't think it very acceptable to wimper "Oh, you took a good deal of money for something defective, now I have to pay you more to make it work?...well, if you say so..."

Originally posted by Emaych
I If that fails, I will probably (since I won't waste much time pleading with them) take Samsung to small claims on the account of selling me a defective device. I would expect to recover the funds necessary to purchase a v125 unit used, since this will be how I appraise its current market value.


Dream-on :o
Samsung will crush you like a bug in court....small or other wise ;)

jones07:
That is exactly what the courts are there to determine. I presume Samsung may well share your view, which is undoubtedly why they feel perfectly free to foist an unmerchantable product on the public, then attempt to charge them more money to get it right. I say nonsense and so should every other consumer who was bilked on this one.
Incidently, if you feel the appropriate corporate attitude to take is to first inflict suffering upon the purchasers of their product, then attempt to crush them in court, I would posit that your approach is as misgiuded as theirs. I'm most certainly willing to allow an impartial party to look in on that -- of course you may not qualify as that impartial party.

I have an older sir-t165 that is just locked with "HELLO" on the front panel. If someone could email me the latest firmware, I believe I have a cable that will work. I have emailed Samsung, but it could be months before they respond. (got it, thanks)

Thanks

Does anyone know exactly what PSIP problems are causing the "reboot" problems on these boxes? We have several stations in Salt Lake that are having trouble, and no one can find the problem.

I can't even get anyone at SamShrug to talk to us.

Does anyone know exactly what PSIP problems are causing the "reboot" problems on these boxes? We have several stations in Salt Lake that are having trouble, and no one can find the problem.

I can't even get anyone at SamShrug to talk to us.

I think the wrong time is the biggest issue. The STT must be within a very narrow tolerance. If any of the other tables are screwed up, I don't know if that causes the Samsung SIR-T165 to choke or not. I am sure you know more than I do about implementation of PSIP, here is a link to documents and manuals on PSIP.

http://www.psip.org/psip_information.html

Chris

I have an older sir-t165 that is just locked with "HELLO" on the front panel. If someone could email me the latest firmware, I believe I have a cable that will work. I have emailed Samsung, but it could be months before they respond. My email is "jgrotjan(at)sbcglobal(dot)net"

Thanks

WOW, This is quite timely. I just had my SIR-T165 do this very thing! Last night I was tuning in a "fringe" channel. and after watching it flip between its real channel ID and its Virtual Channel ID, it rebooted (which it has before, so I wasn't too concerned), and then just "HELLO" for about a minute, and it shut off. After trying several of the remedies that I have used in the past (Holding the channel up or down button while powering up, power off for a while, ...) I still got no results.

I have connected serially to the RS-232 to see what is happening, and it seems that the box is just stuck in a boot loop and will not get out. It also is powering off after 1 minute.

BTW: I have tried powering up with no Antenna Connection, and with a 75 ohm terminator on the Antenna feed to no avail. I have left unpowered and disconnected over night, no change. Also tried Samsung's recommended reset of the box (Power up, Hold MENU while tapping the Right Arrow Button), as well as the other reset (unplug, hold POWER button for 30 seconds, leave unplugged for at least 30 minutes), still displaying "HELLO" rebooting internally over and over for about 1 minute and then power down.

I have sent an email off to Mr Steve Plechy and to Samsung to see if anything can be done. Will try a firmware upgrade ONLY as a last resort. I have the uploader, just not sure which version of the firmware I have (ram.enc file in the uploader package dated 06/05/2003)...

HELP.....?

I know that I read in these forums about similar problems, but I have brought my box to my shop to see what I can see.

I would appreciate ANY help on this.

Thank you.


"No THING is good or evil. It is only a tool for the user."

I have the same problem. It seems imposible to get the firmware update from the Samsung site.

I registered with Samsung for the firmware upgrade the same day as the original post (several weeks ago). As you have already guessed, I haven't heard a word from them. I also tried to email Steve Plechy at Samsung, also with no reply. I would still like to get a copy of the newest firmware by email if some kind soul could send it to me. I have a loader from a firmware upgrade on my SIR-T151 and I think a standard RS-232 cable will work. If I can get the firmware then I'll give it a try and post the results. My email is on the original post.

============================
I got the firmware from the link posted in this forum and attempted to update my unit. As others have mentioned, it hung at anywhere from 0% to 10%. I probably tried about 100 times to load the firmware. Now and then I would get an error screen with some strange text and the words "flash memory" in the middle.

I have a gut level feeling that the upgrade failure is due to the lockup loop with the "hello" display. This sounds like something that was done purposely by Samsung since many others have described this exact behavior. Maybe they wanted to punish those who didn't upgrade in a timely manner. I noticed that it is possible to upgrade the boot program (if you had the image) with the firmware upgrade program. Has anyone heard of being able to get an image of the boot prom? I have to admit that I'm about to throw in the towel on this thing.

If anyone has had any success getting the SIR-T165 unlooped, I would like to hear about it.

Hi...regarding the version 125 upgrade software, earlier in this thread I posted info on where to get it...a gmail account that has it as an attachment to an email message about version 125.

The details are in my previous message, but I don't know how to link to it in this message so the details are:

My posting is dated 1-21-05, and is message #288 in this thread.

I just checked the site, and the attachment is still there.

Tony

PS I never did do this upgrade, as there hasn't been any problem with my unit, and...isn't there something now about the broadcast flag having been thrown out by a court???

Also, although Steve told me the upgrade kit was on its was to me, it never did come, so I don't know how I would do it anyway...

Here's a link to the posting
PLACE FOR GETTING 125 VERSION FIRMWARE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5034812&&#post5034812)

Does anyone know enough details about the electronics of the 165 to know if there are reset pins on the flash ram of the unit? I was wondering if one or more of the flash ram chips were reset if that would allow the unit to come out of the loop it's in? Then maybe the firmware upgrade would not hang! Anyway, still just musing about any possible way to get the unit operational again. I know there are several others on this thread having the same problem.

I would like to know if the Samsung SIR-T165 firmware version 134 causes any problems for D-VHS recorders other than JVC's. I have the Mits HS-HD2000U, should I upgrade to the latest version of T165 firmware? Or should I still need to upgrade only to version 125? Please help, especially, from those who have both the SIR-T165 and the HS-HD2000U. Thank you.

PSPun

I would like to know if the Samsung SIR-T165 firmware version 134 causes any problems for D-VHS recorders other than JVC's. I have the Mits HS-HD2000U, should I upgrade to the latest version of T165 firmware? Or should I still need to upgrade only to version 125? Please help, especially, from those who have both the SIR-T165 and the HS-HD2000U. Thank you.

PSPun

I have the HS-HD2000U and SIR-T165 and have not noticed any problems with version 134.

Chris

Thank you, Chris.

PSPun

I am unable to upgrade to the latest firmware even with the CD and the cable that Samsung sent me. Many attempts resulted in failure. Calling Samsung will be a waste of time. The problems with the recycling “HELLO” signal occurs with only one PBS station and I have decided to delete the main channel and sub channels of that station rather than unplug and plug the OTA coax cable repeatedly. Since my LST 4200a does not do that, I know the problem is with the samsung.

Does the SIR 165 output the OTA digital 480p signals and / or the HD 10801/720p signals via firewire output? If so, can this be captured by a HTPC as a digital/ HD signal? If anyone has tried and succeeded, please let me know. This will help me save buying a separate HD card for the HTPC that I am building.

Thanks

I am unable to upgrade to the latest firmware even with the CD and the cable that Samsung sent me. Many attempts resulted in failure. Calling Samsung will be a waste of time. The problems with the recycling “HELLO” signal occurs with only one PBS station and I have decided to delete the main channel and sub channels of that station rather than unplug and plug the OTA coax cable repeatedly. Since my LST 4200a does not do that, I know the problem is with the samsung.

Does the SIR 165 output the OTA digital 480p signals and / or the HD 10801/720p signals via firewire output? If so, can this be captured by a HTPC as a digital/ HD signal? If anyone has tried and succeeded, please let me know. This will help me save buying a separate HD card for the HTPC that I am building.

Thanks

The problem is that all the stations will be required to have the broadcast flag in their transmissions. That could mean that you may not be able to receive any digital signal with the SIR-T165 in the near future.

Yes, the firewire carries the digital signal that is received by the SIR-T165. I am recording it using my D-VHS recorder, but I know there are members who have record this stream using their HTPC. You can probably be able to find this by searching the HDTV Recorders and Players Forum.

PSPun

I thought the court ruled that the FCC overstepped its bounds, and struck down the BF requirement for OTA broadcasts?

Unless the BF rears its ugly head for OTA broadcast again, why update the 165 firmware? My 165 still has the very original firmware (101? IIRC), it works fine.

If I am missing something, please enlighten me. :)

I thought the court ruled that the FCC overstepped its bounds, and struck down the BF requirement for OTA broadcasts?

Unless the BF rears its ugly head for OTA broadcast again, why update the 165 firmware? My 165 still has the very original firmware (101? IIRC), it works fine.


That is exactly how I am approaching it... I have what I need to upgrade, but I will wait until I am forced to do so...

And yes, I also thought that the Flag issue had gone away for now...

I thought the court ruled that the FCC overstepped its bounds, and struck down the BF requirement for OTA broadcasts?

Unless the BF rears its ugly head for OTA broadcast again, why update the 165 firmware? My 165 still has the very original firmware (101? IIRC), it works fine.

If I am missing something, please enlighten me. :)


Broadcasters are still free to turn on the BF if they want to, including over-the-air broadcasts. If that happens, unless we can get updated Samsung firmware or a new receiver that ignores the BF, then we are out of luck.

The Samsung box with the latest BF-implementing firmware will refuse to transmit. And apparently, pre-BF Samsung firmwares get confused by the BF and won't work either.

So we need a new firmware (ha, likely story) or a new HDTV receiver that was designed to ignore BF.

It's manufacturers that are allowed to ignore (or not) the BF. TV broadcasters are free to turn the BF on if they want, and poof, boat anchors ahoy.

OK... But why would the broadcasters turn it on if almost none of the hardware out there will be compliant?

I don't know... I haven't experienced a problem without the firmware update.

I've got a CD sitting here with V134 on it. I thought I'd wait until I have a problem before changing the firmware.

I'd rather not "fix" something that's working.

OK... But why would the broadcasters turn it on if almost none of the hardware out there will be compliant?

The BF was in development for years. All manufacturers had a long lead time and brought their products into compliance (or exited the business) in time for the July 2005 deadline.

As a result, every external tuner box I am aware of on the market now implements BF. (PC cards are another story). And the replacements for these boxes may also implement BF because there's no incentive to change the firmware. Some I suspect will always implement BF as a protection against if the Congress directly passes the BF requirement.

So I would think it would take a long time to see a external tuner box that doesn't implement BF.

If there are any current U.S. market HDTV tuner (Samsung or other) that reject the BF, please LMK. I would love to be proven wrong.

If there are any current U.S. market HDTV tuner (Samsung or other) that reject the BF, please LMK. I would love to be proven wrong.

Well the Elgato EyeTV 500 ignores the flag... You would probably group it with PC cards, because it is not really a STB, and only works on the Mac, but the perfect HDTV solution for me...for now...

Z

Darn - I just downloaded the Samsung SIR-T165 firmware v 134 update and lost all timed recording functionality and who knows what else. I had version 110. I tried the update to try to correct a recording problem I thought might be related to the broadcast flag.

Does anyone happen to have version 125 or anything else you could email to me? If so, please send a private message by clicking my screen name and I'll send you my email address so the spammers don't get it.

Thanks in advance for your help!

Wow - thanks to the lightning fast response of some fellow AVSers, I received and installed version 125. It looks like I'll be able to use scheduled recordings again. Thank goodness!

All I can say is - don't install version 134 unless you absolutely have to as it appears to be the evil patch that destroys features of the T165 tuner. I thought 135 might help and it certainly didn't.

If someone feels they need the 134 patch, be sure to also have a copy of 125 just in case the 134 doesn't work. It's too bad Samsung doesn't post these fixes on a web site for easy access.

Thanks again to my good friends on AVS for saving the day!

I'm thinking of buying one of these units. I'd be hooking it up to a Mits D-VHS which has no component out (let alone DVI) so it should be good for that purpose. With that in mind, which firmware version works best with ignoring any broadcast flag?
thanks,
lo

I'm thinking of buying one of these units. I'd be hooking it up to a Mits D-VHS which has no component out (let alone DVI) so it should be good for that purpose. With that in mind, which firmware version works best with ignoring any broadcast flag?
thanks,
lo

I don't think any firmware version ignores broadcast flags. I am using an SIR-T165 with a Mitsubishi HS-HD1100U and picture quality and decoding are acceptable but timer recordings are not and no firmware version I have tried provides for acceptable timer recording for more than one event.

Chris

I'm thinking of buying one of these units. I'd be hooking it up to a Mits D-VHS which has no component out (let alone DVI) so it should be good for that purpose. With that in mind, which firmware version works best with ignoring any broadcast flag?
thanks,
lo

I think version 125 is the preferred version, at least for assuring it does timer recording...I thought those who wanted to use broadcast flags lost out in the courts last year....

Anyway, I have an earlier version than 125, and everything still works (including timer recordings with my JVC 30K), so I haven't bothered trying to update for fear I'd just screw something up...

A Samsung guy loaded a 125 download at a website, and I posted info about that a year or more ago in this thread, post #288...

you might want to read some of the posts before that one, because they have discussion about the flag..

I'm using version 112 with a Mits 2000U and everything seems to work fine. I usually only set the timer for 1 recording at a time anyway but I did an experiment with multiples and as long as the start & end times were at least 1 minute apart it worked - no programs were lost & everthing started & stopped like it was supposed to (but that's just 1 test). I may try to get a hold of 125 just in case but I sure won't load it until I have a problem.

Anyone thinking about buying this box, please be warned! I just got off of the Phone with Samsung, and they are NO LONGER doing any repairs on this box. For all of you folks that have the "HELLO" screen problem, as I do now, we are doomed to be stuck with that forever!

Please be aware that if you buy this Box (which I still feel is superior in overall connectivity to other STB's) it is now a Disposable box and is unrepairable. Samsung is NOT supporting any release of ANY diagnostic tools for this box!

So when you buy it, just know that you are getting a good box that may stop working for no reason and you will be left with nothing.

Take care.

"Sum total of human knowledge = 0"

Anyone thinking about buying this box, please be warned! I just got off of the Phone with Samsung, and they are NO LONGER doing any repairs on this box. For all of you folks that have the "HELLO" screen problem, as I do now, we are doomed to be stuck with that forever!

Please be aware that if you buy this Box (which I still feel is superior in overall connectivity to other STB's) it is now a Disposable box and is unrepairable. Samsung is NOT supporting any release of ANY diagnostic tools for this box!

So when you buy it, just know that you are getting a good box that may stop working for no reason and you will be left with nothing.

Take care.

"Sum total of human knowledge = 0"


I just bought another one of these. I am certainly disappointed to hear Samsung will no longer repair it. All I can do is hope I can keep mine running, I have three of these quirky STB's now. I am not aware of any new firewire STB's so all I can do now is hope.

Chris

I just downloaded ver 125 and ver 132 of the firmware and plan to make downgrade CD's since I am running ver 134. If I decide at some point to load the older firmware, will it even work? Right now I am not having problems, but with this goofy thing, there is no guarantee I won't decide to try different firmware in the future so I want to be ready.

Chris

I have a dead box. No Hello. No power light. No nothing. Perhaps it cooked itself?

I just downloaded ver 125 and ver 132 of the firmware and plan to make downgrade CD's since I am running ver 134. If I decide at some point to load the older firmware, will it even work? Right now I am not having problems, but with this goofy thing, there is no guarantee I won't decide to try different firmware in the future so I want to be ready.

Chris


Chris where are the firmware files available for download?
Thanks for any info that can be provided

I just turned on my STB to record some local OTA programming. It worked fine the last time I used it, but that may have been over 1 year ago. I typically use other STB for recording and this STB has been fine as a pass thru device.

Now it seems to have problems with two channels. They get a strong signal but there is no picture or audio. All other channels work fine. Does anyone know what this is? Should I try upgrading the firmware. All other STB in the house are fine of course.

I have been waiting for Samsung to send me firmware for about 6 weeks now. Twice they claimed it was on the way. The third time I was told that there was no firmware fix for the problem. However they still said they would mail firmware to me.

I wonder if I should hold my breath? ......

JHL: PM me with your email address and I can send you the 1.25 firmware I received long ago.

This is a rather old thread but I'm going to resurrect it. I have a T165, that up until now has worked wonderfully. However, one of the stations in Chicago, WPWR, sends the box into continuous reset mode. This started several months ago and hasnt been resolved by the station. This is OTA by the way.

The T165 has old software in it that doesnt recognize the broadcast flag so I am assuming this station is setting the flag and the box doesnt like it.

What I am looking for is the current software load that I can flash into my unit. Samsung seems to have removed all mention of this from their website. Can someone send me the software? I already have the cables and instructions on how to do it. Alternately is there someone I can contact at Samsung who would know what I'm talking about?

dickm

This is a rather old thread but I'm going to resurrect it. I have a T165, that up until now has worked wonderfully. However, one of the stations in Chicago, WPWR, sends the box into continuous reset mode. This started several months ago and hasnt been resolved by the station. This is OTA by the way.

The T165 has old software in it that doesnt recognize the broadcast flag so I am assuming this station is setting the flag and the box doesnt like it.

What I am looking for is the current software load that I can flash into my unit. Samsung seems to have removed all mention of this from their website. Can someone send me the software? I already have the cables and instructions on how to do it. Alternately is there someone I can contact at Samsung who would know what I'm talking about?

dickmWhat firmware version do you have now? The latest firmware was 134. I updated from version 125 and it was a big mistake. I lost some functionality--mainly the ability to record HD by firewire--and wound up returning it to Samsung on two different occasions. I finally wound up reinstalling version 125 but my 165 was never quite the same. It is in mothballs now.

I don't believe the broadcast flag was ever implemented. There was the threat of it but I don't think it ever happened. I'll be glad to send you version 125. Be aware that if you have an older firmware version and update to 134, you won't be able to go back and install version 125. You will get what they call a version compare error.

I would be willing to bet that WPWR has something screwy in their PSIP info that is causing your 165 to reset. I had the same trouble with a broadcaster here and it was finally resolved. Why don't you post in your local OTA thread and see if anybody in your area has a similar experience.

My T165 worked normally for about a year, then suddenly went into the reboot mode on one local station. several weeks later it worked ok .. for about a month, then reboot again.

Suspecting the BF, I downloaded a program TSreaderlite that (with some cheap hardware) would show the details of the PSP, and sure enough there it was. Not on main HD subchannel, nor even the SD subchannel, but on the weather subchannel. nethertheless it caused the reboot.

I then called the engineer at the station, but he knew nothing about it, but said he would try to get some info. About a month later the flag disappeared and T165 worked again. I called the engineer again to thank him, but he was unaware that anything had been done. He did remember that they had received a software update from the PSIP generator manufacturer and that must have removed the flag.

A month or so later, the flag was back. Again the engineer knew nothing about it, but did say they had a power failure and had to reboot everything that day.

To end the problem, I installed the 125 update and all is well so far,

What firmware version do you have now? The latest firmware was 134. I updated from version 125 and it was a big mistake. I lost some functionality--mainly the ability to record HD by firewire--and wound up returning it to Samsung on two different occasions. I finally wound up reinstalling version 125 but my 165 was never quite the same. It is in mothballs now.

I don't believe the broadcast flag was ever implemented. There was the threat of it but I don't think it ever happened. I'll be glad to send you version 125. Be aware that if you have an older firmware version and update to 134, you won't be able to go back and install version 125. You will get what they call a version compare error.

I would be willing to bet that WPWR has something screwy in their PSIP info that is causing your 165 to reset. I had the same trouble with a broadcaster here and it was finally resolved. Why don't you post in your local OTA thread and see if anybody in your area has a similar experience.

I have vers 101, if I'm reading it correctly. so if you could send me 125, I'd like to try the update. My email is dmagerl@geemail.com (unmunge the geemail part)

I think it is the Broadcast flag. As the other poster mentioned, I'll have to look using TSreader. I havent yet, didnt even think of it even though I have the program.

thanks

dickm

Based on experience with 3 T165s - use only the Version 125. The biggest problem I faced in the Mpls / St. Paul area was bad or incorrect PSIP streams which really hosed the T165. Fortunately, our local station engineers, once aware of the problems, worked with the local early HDTV enthusiasts to correct the problems in the PSIP streams. Eventually, the only problem that remained was for the engineers to keep their clocks correct. Often, the PSIP streams weren't synchronized with a GPS signal and resulted in incorrect recording times. Additionally, the stations forgot to update after changes to daylight savings time until this became an automated process.

These days, I rarely use the T165 as my recording source as I now use a Motorola 6412 and 3416 from Comcast. I then transfer to DVHS via the Motorola firewire connection.

Most of the station engineers are very nice and responsive. They will likely work with you to solve the problem.

I've posted version 1.25 of the firmware in this zip file:

http://igorianchant.home.comcast.net/SIRT165Pictures/ZIPPED165.zip

hosted on this page:

http://igorianchant.home.comcast.net/SIRT165Pictures/sirt165.html

Thanks!
I downloaded it. Will let you know how it comes out.

Dick

I recently bought a JVC HM-DH5U DVHS deck. It seems to work with the SIR-T165 except timed recording. When I use the timer on the SIR-165 the DVHS deck will display the error message "connection error". Anybody know how to fix this?

Just updated the firmware of our 165 from v101 to v125 today, hoping that it would solve the reboot "hello" problem we've been experiencing on channel 11.1 in Minneapolis. The update did not solve the problem. Channel 11.1 is apparently sending PSIP data that the 165 doesn't know how to deal with? Channel 11.2 works fine. I'm planning to give KARE (Ch.11) a call. Is anyone else having a problem like this with the 165 and KARE? Any insight or thoughts about this malfunction would be appreciated. Thanks.

Just updated the firmware of our 165 from v101 to v125 today, hoping that it would solve the reboot "hello" problem we've been experiencing on channel 11.1 in Minneapolis. The update did not solve the problem. Channel 11.1 is apparently sending PSIP data that the 165 doesn't know how to deal with? Channel 11.2 works fine. I'm planning to give KARE (Ch.11) a call. Is anyone else having a problem like this with the 165 and KARE? Any insight or thoughts about this malfunction would be appreciated. Thanks.

Don't bother, scrap the 165. Why? even if you get channel 11 to fix its problem, it will show up again shortly on another channel. Why do I know this? I tried to use a 165T near San Francisco for several years, and during that time, there was always at least one station (but not always the SAME station) that would cause the 165T to go into the reboot loop. The only way to get out of that loop is to disconnect the antenna from the 165T then change the channel.

My attempt to get Samsung to fix this bug lead to extreme frustration, and a vow never to buy a Samsung product again.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I'd like to keep the 165 until we replace our current TV, even though its likely to be an ongoing disappointment. When the lamp based DLP dies, the 165 will go into retirement.

I appreciate what you're saying, but I'd like to keep the 165 until we replace our current TV, even though its likely to be an ongoing disappointment. When the lamp based DLP dies, the 165 will go into retirement.

It might be less troublesome to get a different tuner box such as the Centronics ZAT502HD that doesn't suffer from crippling firmware bugs, and is available for about $100. Of course that model does not have an RGB output, just HDMI and component, and does not have any video inputs.

I have to say that the T165 is irreplaceable b/c of the firewire output/input. It would be nice if Samsung made a BD recorder that could actually use this output. Until such time, we are stuck using DVHS and/or copying the file to a computer and then burning a BD disk.

I have to say that the T165 is irreplaceable b/c of the firewire output/input.
I can think of only two other receivers that have Firewire I/O: Mitsubishi HD6000 and LG LST-3410A. Are there any more?

Some rented cable boxes have Firewire, but they only provide output, not input.

I can think of only two other receivers that have Firewire I/O: Mitsubishi HD6000 and LG LST-3410A. Are there any more?

Some rented cable boxes have Firewire, but they only provide output, not input.

Don't think so. One of the JVC DVHS decks has a built-in ATSC tuner and had a firewire output. Also, many HDTVs (including my Toshiba 42HP95) have ATSC/Cablecard tuners with firewire in/out for recording/playback to either DVHS or a HD-DVR.

I have to say that the T165 is irreplaceable b/c of the firewire output/input. It would be nice if Samsung made a BD recorder that could actually use this output. Until such time, we are stuck using DVHS and/or copying the file to a computer and then burning a BD disk.

Is there any reason you aren't using the computer to record directly? Tuners for the computer can be even cheaper than a STB tuner.
I know MythTV works well for recording on Linux (My experience with windows recording has been bad and I have not done it with anything but Windows 2000, so I'll let others comment on windows tools)

After disconnecting the antenna from the 165, and then running a channel scan, then reconnecting the antenna and rescanning again, channel 11.1 works. 11.1 drops out for a second or two, then works fine. I tried this at the suggestion of the engineer at KARE.

DAP, if I have problems in the future, I'll look into a ZAT502HD. Thanks.