As many of you know, Samsung has emailed a firmware update to users who request a fix to the SIR-T165 Horizontal Shift issue (uncentered image with DVI or RGB connections.) This issue is purportedly the ONLY thing for which the firmware provides a workaround.

As a warning to those who haven't yet applied this poorly tested firmware update, and as a request for advice from fellow T165 owners, or even as a request to an informed Samsung representative, let me share my disturbing tale:

My setup includes:

Samsung SIR-T165 Set Top Box
- connected to digital Samsung DLP HLN507W - 720p HDTV (via DVI)
- connected to analog VCR/PVR (via S-Video Out)

Set Top Box Settings
- Resolution Switch 720p
- DTV Out Switch set to RGB,DVI rather than YPbPr

Prior to applying the firmware update, all worked in glorious harmony (ignoring Off-Center Image, "Auto" Clock, Gray vs Black Masking Bars, etc) and I could watch a digital OTA broadcast in 720p supplied to my TV via DVI, while I simultaneously recorded the same program to my analog VCR via the 480i S-Video Out.

In other words, the T165's analog connectors (S-Video and RCA Jack video outputs) always provided 480i for OTA broadcasts regardless of the Digital Resolution Switch for the HDTV being set to 1080i, 720p, 480p, or 480i.

**After*** the firmware patch (v2.4) was applied, and using the same configuration and settings, a "Blank Green Screen" is all that is fed through the analog video connectors (audio is fine), ruining recordings to my analog VCR/PVR. The digital HDTV feed through DVI is still fine, as is the RGB connection. Interestingly, this issue ONLY occurs for the 720p setting, and *NOT* for 1080i or 480p or 480i. Obviously a flaw from the firmware patch.

In July, I reported this to the person at Samsung who seems to be responsible for distributing this firmware update. After initially claiming this behavior shouldn't be happening, he actually checked on his unit and reported the same behavior. His suggestion - "stay tuned", but he always side-stepped questions regarding timeframes or other feedback or prognoses.

Here is a synopsis of his email communications to me:

31-Jul-03
"I do not have the previous software, I am going to the enginneering (sic) dept. to look into this as well as check my unit. This is very strange if it is doing what you are describing."

01-Aug-03
"I have the same thing going on with my unit here. Same sympton (sic). I have another main board I need to install and check the before and after. Stay tuned"

18-Aug-03
"It's still being looked into. It definitly (sic) does exactly what you say."

Well, being patient, I waited several months, and decided, OK, enough already - if I can't get a properly functioning firmware update, let's have a warranty replacement. I check with the Samsung rep. His replies:

03-Nov-03
"Please try this software and see if it helps."

The same Samsung firmware guy sent me a newer version of the firmware (v3.10) and suggested I see if that helped. Apparently he never actually tested for this issue himself, because it didn't further change any observable behavior in the T165. The analog outs were still not functioning for 720p Resolution Switch settings, still sending "Blank Green Screens" to my S-Video connected VCR/PVR. I asked him for a replacement T165 unit.

05-Nov-03
"We again have no technical resolution and therefore would have to contiune (sic) to follow page 1.2 of the owners manual 720 for dtv only set and 480i for analog set. You would have to move the resolution switch."

(My Comment - I don't HAVE an analog TV set, I have a 720p HDTV and an analog VCR/PVR. I would like to watch the TV at 720p while I simultaneously record to my analog VCR/PVR, as I was able to do prior to the firmware patch.)

05-Nov-03
"...that unit does not have always on analog outputs. It never was intended too (sic). You had a unit with old software that we / you upgraded. By doing this it alloud (sic) the unit to operate properly and if the resolution is on anything but 480i analog outputs are not supported. We unfortunetly (sic) are not going to develop a fix as this is how the unit was designed. Warranty would not correct this either. This is how the unit is. I am verry (sic) sorry for the disatisfaction (sic) it may have caused you."

Then he has the nerve to actually suggest I purchase the Samsung SIR-T160, since it *DOES* support "always on" analog outputs, and even supplied me a web-link to ease my purchase from Samsung! What a load of garbage! First he supplies me with a faulty firmware patch, crippling my T165, and then generously offers that I purchase another model that functions the same way my T165 originally functioned, (although the T160 is otherwise geared towards DirectTV!) What kind of scam is this?!

Now clearly, the T165 *is* intended to always provide 480i to the S-Video and RCA Video outputs, regardless of the Digital Resolution Switch setting. Excerpts from the Owner's Manual certainly imply "always on" 480i for the analog connectors. That is how the T165 operated *prior to* the firmware update. That is how the T165 *STILL* operates for 1080i, 480p and 480i - all EXCEPT 720p! Although the T165 User Manual may not neatly display a settings table as is done in the T160's manual, it does have references to settings as follows:

Per P1.2 - Resolution Select Switch:
Samsung instructs the user to match the Resolution Select Switch to the resolution of the Television (in my case 720p.)

Per P1.7 - VCR with Monitor Out jacks:
"If you connect a VCR with the Monitor Out jacks to the Set-Top Box, the VCR will record exactly what you are viewing on the Set-Top Box." (Not a Blank Green Screen.)

P1.10 - Digital Signal IN - Analog recording:
"Connect a Firewire cable between an D-VHS device and the Set-Top Box and also an analog cable between the AV input on the D-VHS device and the AV output on the Set-Top Box."

Per the manual, the only items specifically *NOT* supported when the resolution Switch is NOT set to 480i:
p1.5 - "If 1080i, 720p, or 480p (DIGITAL) is selected":
"the On Screen Display", (STB Menus, Messages & Electronic Program Guide), "will not be supported for VIDEO OUT and S-VIDEO OUT"

Since I don't want to record STB "On Screen Display" items, this was never an issue. But recording "Blank Green Screens" to my analog VCR/PVR while I watch my 720p Samsung HDTV because I have the Digital Resolution set to 720p would be a ludicrous design, and obviously was *not* the engineers' intent, and it *wasn't* what was originally sold to me.

Anyway, my intent is to warn others regarding this firmware fiasco, and also ask my fellow users whether they have a definitive source to refute the Samsung claim that the T165 "does not have always on analog outputs. It never was intended too."

Any advice on resolving this issue with Samsung or point me to a Samsung contact that can help? (I still have a long time left on my warranty.)

SO what OTHER things were addressed between the 2.4 and the 3.0 updates?
Nothing? Was the version number just a placebo to get you off his back?
It's a shame the way you got screwed. Luckily I run my 165 in 1080 mode,
so this problem is mostly a non-issue for me.

Sorry,


EDIT** btw, I forgot to mention that I do use the DVI output, and I did
update my firmware once since I've owned the box.

Originally posted by zvogt
SO what OTHER things were addressed between the 2.4 and the 3.0 updates?
Nothing? Was the version number just a placebo to get you off his back?


zvogt,
The version number is from the name of the "downloader" .exe file used to apply the firmware-image patch. I don't know of any way to determine the firmware version from the T165 itself. I couldn't discern any functional differences in the T165 than after the previous patch, but I did compare the prior "ram.enc" firmware-image file to the current one (using a binary file editor.)

(Don't worry Samsung, I wasn't reverse engineering, just ensuring I didn't waste my time trying to apply the same patch.)

The prior and current firmware-image files were identically sized, but internally different. Who knows what actually changed... Certainly no Release Notes!

I can't believe that Samsung can't provide the old firmware. Even if they did not want to spend any additional resources on new firmware, they should be able to provide the old firmware.

-Dave

Originally posted by DPlettner
I can't believe that Samsung can't provide the old firmware.

Dave,
This astounds me also. As far as I know, Samsung may still be manufacturing the T165 using the original firmware, with this patch merely originating from some local Samsung engineer who has provided some hacking to put in the kludgy horizontal-shift menu. Maybe, to make room for the additional menu, he overwrote the support code for the analog outs... And is too afraid to explain to the Home Office.

Any more recent T165 owners that *haven't* patched, and have the horizontal-shift kludge menus? [MTS][Enter][Enter] on the remote, to activate.

I am not surprised. Samsung is one of the worst companies as far as customer support. SIR-T165 has so many bugs that it needed upgrades when it came out but Samsung never did any except for failed horizontal shift issue. I for one will get rid of 165 as soon as LG 3410 box comes out.

Yikes! Scary.

It sounds like maybe Samsung should be avoided.

- Tom

How do you check what firmware version it is?

Originally posted by wbcollegekid
How do you check what firmware version it is?
Check Post #3, above.

I don't know of a direct check. All I had was a patch-applier version#.

This (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2392409#post2392409) post was accurate back in early July when it was posted.


**EDIT** I posted this info in this thread as a direct response to someone
that has since deleted their inquiry. I'll leave this here in case it's needed
by future readers of this thread.

Well, if at first you don't succeed...

Today, quite unexpectedly, I received another firmware patch - emailed from Samsung. I was informed that it fixes the analog output problem while the Digital Resolution Switch is set to 720p, (problem introduced by the prior firmware patches.)

It may be a little premature to start celebrating, but I installed and tested. The horizontal shift fix is still in place, and all seems to be functioning properly again at 720p and other resolutions! I'll let you know if I find any problems introduced with this update, but so far so good...

rChaz,

What was the "version number" of the new firmware? If it works, I may want to do that update myself.

Thanks,

-phil

Same here.
I just received a firmware today that says xxx3.10.exe.
Is yours a newer version?

Originally posted by PhilB
What was the "version number" of the new firmware?
PhilB & jsjames,
The only version# I have is for the "Downloader" (DL) exe - v310. This doesn't necessarily correlate to the actual firmware "image" (ram.enc) version, as the DL version sent to me on Nov 13th is identical to the DL file sent on Nov 4th. Only the firmware image was changed, and there's no version# associated with that file, AFAIK. Therefore, I'd guess that you'll have to gauge by the date received - Nov 13th being the earliest "safe" date for fixed 720p - based on my experience. Definitive test is to feed a signal from the STB to an analog (480i) component through the STB S-Video or RCA Video out jacks while the Digital Res Switch is set to 720p.

Also, the "fixed" version size (as seen from my Win2k Explorer, NTFS) is 1,829KB compared to the two previous image files that were each 1,827KB. I was a little surprised that there would be *any* size difference in a firmware image, but there was a slight difference. Loaded just fine. Working fine.

I got two emails.
One with a 11-13 dated enc file and one with a 10-28 dated enc file.
I guess my 11-13 file will be the one to try.

All,
Today I received some additional info from Samsung re identifying the SIR-T165 firmware version (see, I think they do listen to concerns posted on the AVS Forums, although they may not be allowed to respond directly for various reasons. Thanks, Samsung.)

To check the firmware version, use the STB remote to press Menu, choose Preference, choose Help, turn Help On. Once Help is set On, choose the Help menu to bring up the Help On/Off choice. *While the Help On/Off menu choice is still shown*, press the remote's Info button, and several identifiers will be displayed beneath the bottom of the OSD menus. The 1st item is the firmware version#. My firmware, which is the latest, shows S_TIROS3_134 and includes updates to allow "always on" analog outputs, as well as dvi (and RGB) horizontal shift and firewire correction. (I'm not sure what is meant by "firewire correction" - that's all I was told. You may be able to track it down in a forum search.) Additionally, the newer "downloader" exe, v310, was merely updated to provide a more "English-friendly" interface than the earlier v240 downloader.

The Samsung contact has graciously offered to email the firmware to all those who ask, and can be emailed at SteveP AT sea DOT samsung DOT com (anti-SPAM-bot format - reformat appropriately.)

Samsung still maintains that the 720p/analog-outs "fix" was provided merely as good will, and that the SIR-T165 was never specifically designed to support "always on" analog. Only the SIR-T160 was. (Of course my T165 functioned according to the T160 specs in this regard prior to the original firmware update, but because it now does so again with the latest, I'm happy regardless of why it was changed.)

I loaded the new firmware but where in the menu is the adjustment for the shift?. I checked all the menus 5 times and can't see any option for that.

Thanks

Originally posted by CKNA
where in the menu is the adjustment for the shift?
Thanks
Partially mentioned above, Post# 5. Here's more:

[MTS][Enter][Enter] on the remote, to activate the menu.

Then [Enter] again to activate the shift mode for [left][right] moves. From there, [Enter] toggles shift mode off/on, and [Exit] (or time-out) removes the menu.

Any way to turn off the grey bars ?

ckna

Would you please read your pm

noackm,
I did not get a pm from you. Please send it again.

For those of you that have upgraded your SIR-T165 firmware, do you need a pass-through 9 pin cable or a null modem cable? Thanks.

Brian

You'll need a straight 9-pin male-to-female cable.

Thanks, zvogt. I upgraded my firmware this evening and everything went smoothly. I thought it might fix the rebooting problem I have on a couple of OTA channels, but the problem is still there. Oh well ...

Brian

I also upgraded tonight and I have noticed one odd thing. In the SF Bay area KRON is analog 4, digital 57. The '-2' subchannel is displayed as 'service', but is black.

As I was going through the channels I tuned in 4-2 and my T165 became unresponsive. I could not change the channels, nor could I get into the menu. The only button that worked was the power button. I tried turning the unit on and off several times, and tried holding down different keys (menu, CH+, number keys, etc.) as the T165 was powering up. Nothing worked and the tuner remained stuck on 4-2.

Finally I disconnected the antenna cable, which finally broke the hold that this channel was having on the tuner. I deleted this channel in the setup menu and now everything works great.

Strange problem, but I can live with it. Just wondering if anyone else in the Bay area with the new firmware has noticed this.

-Dave

Has anyone here been able to determine whether this update does anything else besides fix the DVI image-shift issue?

I'm still having problems with the 165 and mits Hd2000 Dvhs..error Cp
and aborted recordings..

Originally posted by DPlettner
I also upgraded tonight and I have noticed one odd thing. In the SF Bay area KRON is analog 4, digital 57. The '-2' subchannel is displayed as 'service', but is black.

As I was going through the channels I tuned in 4-2 and my T165 became unresponsive. I could not change the channels, nor could I get into the menu. The only button that worked was the power button. I tried turning the unit on and off several times, and tried holding down different keys (menu, CH+, number keys, etc.) as the T165 was powering up. Nothing worked and the tuner remained stuck on 4-2.

Finally I disconnected the antenna cable, which finally broke the hold that this channel was having on the tuner. I deleted this channel in the setup menu and now everything works great.

Strange problem, but I can live with it. Just wondering if anyone else in the Bay area with the new firmware has noticed this.

-Dave

I am still having the problem I described above. In the SF Bay area, KQED multicasts a bunch of channels during the day and switches to HD at night. My T165 locked up on channel 9-5 last night when KQED was not using this channel. Rather than disconnect the antenna, like I did last time, I just waited until morning when the channel was being used and then deleted the channel.

I use 1080i and record to an ATI AIW using the s-video output (although I signed up for the Vividlogic beta yesterday). The only reason I updated the firmware was because I thought it would be nice to have the fix in place if I ever went to a 720o flatscreen.

Does anyone know if I will have any problems if I go back to the orignal H-shift fix firmware?

Quite frankly, since I figured out how to correct H-shift in my TV's service menu I would not mind going back to the original firmware that I had when I purchased the T165.

-Dave

Originally posted by Rudy1
Has anyone here been able to determine whether this update does anything else besides fix the DVI image-shift issue?
See post#16. The latest firmware, S_TIROS3_134 (Nov-13), includes updates to allow "always on" analog outputs, as well as the dvi (and RGB) horizontal shift and firewire correction. (I'm not sure what is meant by "firewire correction".)

Originally posted by DPlettner
My T165 locked up on channel 9-5 last night when KQED was not using this channel.
Dave,
I think the lock-ups occur from a faulty signal (or faulty reception of a signal) which aren't handled well by the STB.

I've had lockups (where only the power on/off function still responded), as well as reboots from particular stations - for all the versions of firmware I've used. I actually had the lockups occur much more frequently (especially while I was navigating STB OSD menus) with the original firmware, but it may just be the local DTV broadcasters getting their acts together rather than a change in the STB performance.

Thanks for the response. I never had this happen with the previous two frimware versions, but what you described (with only the power button responding) is exactly what I am seeing. The problem is that even when I power back up I am still stuck, and the only ways I know of to break the cycle are to disconnect the antenna or wait until the channel is active again.

Do you know of any other ways to get the unit to respond? Disconnecting the antenna is a bit of a pain because of the way I have the unit postioned.

Thanks,
Dave

Dplettner,

That sounds like a really annoying problem. If your SIR-T165 is still under warranty, I would try to get it fixed. Either the dealer or Samsung should be able to exchange it or to reflash the old firmware.

I'm in the SF bay area also and glad I didn't upgrade the firmware. I watch KQED a lot, with the 9.1 - 9.5 subchannels on during the day but only 9.1/9.2 at night . Even on my old version 125 firmware, the receiver does pause for a while when going through the 9.3 - 9.5 channels that are off at night.

Of course for me it would be a pain to upgrade the firmware, I would have to install a windows operating system on my PC just to run the firmware upgrade program, so unless there is a known good firmware version - perhaps one that allows disabling grey bars - I won't be upgrading.

Dave,

The problem you're describing of the SIR-T165 locking up on a channel with dead air is definitely something I'm seeing with the original firmware in my new unit. I also have found no better way to make the unit responsive than to disconnect the antenna cable--not a great solution.

If anyone finds a better workaround, please post it! :)

When I have a chance I think I will go back to the original H-shift fix firmware and see of the problem goes away. The lockup was a minor pain for KRON's 4-2 channel, but it is a much bigger problem for me with the KQED subchannels.

The SIR-T165 is still under warranty, but I do not believe it is defective. I just think it is a firmware glitch. Anyway, I have until spring.

For those of you that have seen the problem with the older firmware, I am curious if you use 720p? Before reflashing the old firmware I will try 720p to see if I see that problem at that resolution also.

Madbrain: Even though I have a Windows XP based HTPC I foung it easier just to use a laptop to do the upgrade. If you can borrow someone else's laptop it's a lot easier than installing a Windows OS just to upgrade the firmware.

-Dave

rChaz!

Great thread bud! I've been wondering how to check my T-165 out.

Any chance they've mentioned how to download and save a firmware?
I've got ver3.132 if Samsung has software capability.

Originally posted by weebling1
I've been wondering how to check my T-165 out.

Any chance they've mentioned how to download and save a firmware?

weebling1,
Check post#16 for instructions on checking the T-165 firmware version.

Regarding downloading and saving your current firmware prior to updating, I don't believe there's any user application or function that can do that, although providing a backup feature would be a great way for Samsung to provide a fallback.

When I did my original update, I thought "Well maybe there'll be cumulative bugfixes slipped in, so it's worth the effort", even though I already had a workaround for the horizontal-shift issue. I should have listened to the old firmware admonishment - if it doesn't specifically address a need, leave well enough alone. And, as I ignored the admonishment, the update crippled my unit until the issue was fixed in a later version. Fortunately the current firmware again brings the STB back to working for my needs.

Originally posted by DPlettner
the only ways I know of to break the cycle are to disconnect the antenna or wait until the channel is active again.

Do you know of any other ways to get the unit to respond?

Dave,
I have a small indoor antenna that is highly directional (Zenith Silver Sensor.) Although I never tried this for the lockup issue, when the unit repeatedly reboots on a bad channel - I merely point the antenna elsewhere so the signal breaks on the next boot. I can also sometimes change the channel with the Channel down/up button as the STB boots up again. (I had this problem with a particular sub-channel until the broadcaster fixed the signal.)

I use the 720p res, and have seen the behavior on all firmware versions I've tried, including straight from the mft.

Originally posted by highvista
Dave,

The problem you're describing of the SIR-T165 locking up on a channel with dead air is definitely something I'm seeing with the original firmware in my new unit. I also have found no better way to make the unit responsive than to disconnect the antenna cable--not a great solution.

If anyone finds a better workaround, please post it! :)

I've had this issue crop up with both my SIR-T150 and SIR-T165 on one of our locals when they're multicasting. For some weird reason, neither unit seems to like the signal it receives on one of the station's virtual channels (75-1); the T165 will occasionally go into what seems like an endless reboot cycle, and none of the buttons seem to respond. However, I've found that if I immediately select a different channel on the T165 just as the "HELLO" sign appears the unit will then tune to that channel instead of the one originally causing the problem. This has worked for me each time I've tried it, and eliminates the need for unplugging the unit. Deleting the problem channel from memory works, but I've noticed that the reboot cycling comes back if you tune into that channel when you use the CHANNEL UP/DOWN buttons.

--Rudy

I'm new the AVS forum, but I thought I'd mention this:

I got my T165 last week, and had heard of the lock-up problems. On mine, yes, sometimes it seems locked on the "Univision" channel, but I've noticed that if I tap the "up" channel button, then WAIT for about 10 seconds, it will respond and continue normal operation.

I don't know if this is still useful info (the posts I'm reading are from last November), but if you're still having lock-up problems, you might want to wait a few seconds longer and see if it recovers liek mine: slow, but eventually.

BTW, I have a HORRIBLE shift to the left over RGB only, but I hope to fix that Thursday with what I've learned today :)

Grumpy Bob,
The firmware upgrade fixed my DVI/RGB shift problems, and as for the locking up situation, I just unplug the cable that's connected to the T-165 and that always resets the channels.
Chris.

35mm Man,

Did you by any chance also notice a slight overscan problem? My RGB output seems to ALSO be cutting off the top few scan lines. Much more so than any other input, including my backup SIR-T151.

what is the correct e-mail address to get latest firmware

Stephen Plechy
SteveP@sea.samsung.com
Samsung Electronics America, Inc.
Customer Care Center
400 Valley Road, Suite 201
Mt. Arlington, NJ 07856
Office phone: 1-800-SAMSUNG
Office Fax: (973)529-0208

Grumpy Bob,
"Yes" I did have an RGB overscan problem before I downloaded the firmware, I'm not really sure if the overscan problem was fixed after I applied the firmware fix because I'm only using the DVI output now.
Chris.

I emailed Steve over the weekend, and he sent me new firmware today. However, he sent me version S_TIROS3_125 by mistake. Can someone please email me the latest firmware, version S_TIROS3_134? My email address for this is hellothere03@yahoo.com. Thanks, I would greatly appreciate it.

What would make you think the _135 updater doesn't contain the latest firmware when most others here used the _134 updater? Am I missing something?

kucharsk,
I said earlier that Steve sent me version 125 (dated June 2003), not version 135.

Thanks to all that sent me the new file!

This problem must be with only select T-165's as mine has been flawless since I purchased it a couple months ago. DVI is connected from it to my Mits TV and I don't have the shift issue. I must be lucky afterall (normally I'm not). ;)

Originally posted by somedude22
kucharsk,
I said earlier that Steve sent me version 125 (dated June 2003), not version 135.

Aaaah! Font size set too small. Sorry about that...

Anyone know how to reset a 165? Mine is acting crazy and I need to reset/reboot it. Unplugging for an extended time period did nothing.

Thanks,

E. J.

If only component (not DVI) outputs are being used, is there any benefit to upgrading the firmware? I'm mainly wondering if the Black levels issue for analog (s-video/composite) input was ever fixed with the new firmware.

Could someone email me the T165 firmware 134/135 or whatever is the latest and a brief howto doc. I already have a cable.
I have upgraded the firmware on my T150 but the procedure may have changed.
Thanks!
btadlock
bob @ dydns.com (remove antispam spaces before using email address)

Those with Samsung STB's should see the following about upgrading the firmware:

http://www.samsungusa.com/stb_upgrade/

1) Is it going to impact what goes through the firewire connection, and can be recorded on a JVC30k/ 40k VCR ?

2) Is Samsung going to actually fix the bugs in the damn firmware ? I'm tired of the HDTV crashing, so I barely use the unit anymore.

Yea, when I emailed Stephen Plechy SteveP @ sea.samsung.com and asked for the latest firmware he directed me to www.samsungusa.com/broadcastflag and said if I registered that Samsung would send me a CD and cable to upgrade the firmware of my T165.

How necessary is the "broadcast flag" firmware update from Samsung for the T165. What won't I be able to do if I skip the upgrade???

It's not really necessary..other than you won't be able to use the receiver.

Originally posted by wjmeyer
How necessary is the "broadcast flag" firmware update from Samsung for the T165. What won't I be able to do if I skip the upgrade???

You do not need the upgrade. BF is just a bit in a stream to prevent distribution of recording over internet. All legacy devices will ignore it.
Samsung is wrong and it is total BS.

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
It's not really necessary..other than you won't be able to use the receiver.

Oh, come on. Why do you say that. That is completely untrue.

Ok..why don't you wait and see then?
That's what I LOVE about this forum! Those who know more than the manufacturers of the product and those who actually have direct experience from the broadcast end.:rolleyes:
(We've tested the flag with these boxes..they barf without the update)

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Ok..why don't you wait and see then?
That's what I LOVE about this forum! Those who know more than the manufacturers of the product and those who actually have direct experience from the broadcast end.:rolleyes:
(We've tested the flag with these boxes..they barf without the update)

Well, then this means that Samsung products suck even more. All legacy equipment suppose to ignore the flag and if it does not it means they were designed wrong. I guess I should not be surprised. After all it is Samsung.


BTW, bdfox18doe how did you test BF. Is there even equipment yet to insert it and what exactly do you mean by".. they barf without update"?.

We're beta testing PSIP software that contains the BF capability for the MFG of our PSIP generator. We ran without the flag for a few days
on this new version and all was fine, once we turned the flag on complaints
began. Sammy has been known for buggy software, but after speaking with their product manager I'm convinced they will address these issues.
Once the flag is on, they tend to go into endless reboot or lockup.
Since we've only ran the flag for a brief time, and in a market I'll leave unnamed, who knows what other brands will have dyspepsia over the flag?

By the way, just reviewed one of our syndication contracts, this particular program distributor will require us to run the flag on their programming...

bdfox18doe,

What made you focus on the sammy? Did you test any other brands? If not, why?

Didn't necessarily focus on the Sammy's, one of our reference viewers has one, and they notified us immediately that it suddenly had problems.
In the process of testing others.. however, we have had no problems so far
with the RCA DTC100, Sony 300, & the Hughes HTL.

bdfox18doe
Thanks for the update. Sony 300 and Hughes HTL are made by LG so hopefully other LG products will be ok.

Samsung tuners always have problems. My 165 used to reboot on one of the stations that I receive. My other 3 tuners worked fine.

Could someone please email me the 135 firmware. I currently have 101 and it stinks. Please send 135 to bob@dydns.com
Thanks!

Actually, Sony and Zenith are LG.. Mits, Toshiba, and Hughes are made by Hughes..
I've seen the same thing you have when comparing multiple boxes CKNA..

Does the new firmware result in disabling of the Firewire/1394 outputs on the T165 when the flag is on?

Originally posted by bdfox18doe
Actually, Sony and Zenith are LG.. Mits, Toshiba, and Hughes are made by Hughes..
I've seen the same thing you have when comparing multiple boxes CKNA..

Hughes HTL HD is made by LG. It is almost the same as Sony 300 and LG 3200. It is missing OTA signal strength meter.
There is a long thread in this forum about these receivers.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=398862

Ok & Thanks. I have not yet played with that unit.

The Motorola also seems to be fine as well.

FYI,
To all those who've previously upgraded their SIR-T165 firmware to version S_TIROS3_134 (available since Nov. '03) - I don't think you need to worry about the Broadcast Flag issue:

I received my Broadcast Flag "upgrade" CD from Samsung in the mail today. The CD "Label" listed the firmware version as S_TIROS4_133, and the file date was 29-Oct-03. Seemed odd to me - it wasn't crystal clear how this version would relate to the S_TIROS3_134 I'd installed last Nov.

But I tried it anyway - turns out the "new" version is *actually* S_TIROS3_134, the same version I'd installed last Nov. (Full version display was S_TIROS3_134 S_TIROS53_110 S_TIROS73_007 - I don't have access to my notes on the 2nd & 3rd numbers, so you'll have to check your own sets to see if they've changed.) Would have been nice for them to properly label the CD with the correct version, or provide the actual version & modifications in a "release notes" doc. That would have saved me the trouble of "upgrading" to the same version. I guess the "latest" firmware has been Broadcast Flag compatible for some time now.

Oh well, at least everything seems to work (or not work) the same as before, and I have an extra serial cable for my troubles.

------------------
Edit - see post #73, below for further info.

Originally posted by rChaz
FYI,
- I don't think you need to worry about the Broadcast Flag issue:



Perhaps you should tell Samsung that so they'll know?

Sorry 'bout this - regarding post#71, above:

Although the version (S_TIROS3_134) remains the same, the "ram.enc" update files are the same size, and the file date of the CD "upgrade" file is from 29-Oct-03: I did a binary file image comparison of my Nov '03 previous S_TIROS3_134 "ram.enc" file with the "upgrade" CD S_TIROS3_134 "ram.enc" file, and they are different binary images.

I only compared the binary machine language image of one file to the other - not actual content or disassembly - so I don't know what/if there are functional differences between the files. However, it *is* possible that Samsung slipped in some change(s) without actually updating the version number. Not a good practice, but quite possible.

Anyway, without any regard to the Broadcast Flag which I can't test, I haven't noticed any functional differences in my T165 between the CD S_TIROS3_134 firmware and my prior S_TIROS3_134 firmware - yet.

I was seriously considering the purchase of a used T165 until I read of these firmware issues.

One thing about the T165 that appealed to me was its Firewire output when paired with a D-VHS VCR. I was thinking that it would be nice to record local OTA HDTV programs in high definition.

For those with T165 experience, do you think it's a good solution for HDTV recording or would you look at other models?

Are there other affordable options for recording HDTV OTA beyond a paired Firewire capable stb and a D-VHS VCR? (I don't currently own a D-VHS unit.)

Bob

I have the 165 and the Mits3000 DVHS. I can tell you from experience,
to avoid this combination, It just doesn't work reliably.

Frankly most of the other HDTV recording solutions don't work reliably either, from other DVHS decks and the T165 to the LG-3410a HDPVR. :(

I've read the T165 works well with the JVC 30000 and 40000, but both those decks have problems of their own. :(

Now the problem I'm dealing with is I can't update my T165; I got the CDROM and cable in the mail on Friday, but every time I tried to do the update I get a Windoze error box stating "Version Compare Error" as soon as I powered the T165 on after clicking the "WAIT" button.

Whatever that means; I suspect I'm going to have to send my box back to Samsung to get beyond version _132 (an 11/2003 build, it came with _132 from the factory...)

I have two t165 units and I truly enjoy them for recording to XP.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=403695
I do not use a D-VHS box.

I've got a very early 165 that works fine. I just received the CDROM and cable for doing the firmware update that addresses the BF flag issue. I have two questions:

1. Will I lose any capabilities I currently have if I install the new firmware?

2. Is there any reason why I should not wait until I actually experience a problem to install the new firmware? I really don't like to disturb something that works.

TIA

Originally posted by hjw
I've got a very early 165 that works fine. I just received the CDROM and cable for doing the firmware update that addresses the BF flag issue. I have two questions:

1. Will I lose any capabilities I currently have if I install the new firmware?

2. Is there any reason why I should not wait until I actually experience a problem to install the new firmware? I really don't like to disturb something that works.

TIA
If you do not suffer any problems now, I personally would wait.
Just maybe there is something else in this update that repairs
some copyright infringement code that just possibly was incorrectly
implemented. This is only a guess and nothing more than that.
If yours is working fine right now, what is the hurry?
I think it would suck to find out later that the box continued to output
1080i via dvi or other even when the flag said not to.
I’d personally wait until you have problems.

Edit: I meant a non HDCP DVI display as I use now.
Just maybe the box will not down-Rez like it should.

The early posts in this thread make clear that when a broadcast with the BF enabled is received on the 165 it will continuously reboot, much the same way it will hang if a broadcast with bad PSIP data is received until you disconnect the antenna.

Feel free not to upgrade at this time, but as the early posts also say many program syndicators are now mandating that if their shows are shown on DTV stations the broadcast flag must be turned on. This essentially means that when your 165 starts continuously rebooting you're going to have to upgrade anyway...

Originally posted by kucharsk
This essentially means that when your 165 starts continuously rebooting you're going to have to upgrade anyway...
Agreed, when and if that day arrives, we will all need to update.
However until then, I do not believe the gains out-weigh the possible negatives of the upgrade, Why fix something that is not broken at this time and subject ourselves to the inherited risk of a failed firmware flash.
I do not suffer the reboots with any of by boxes, two sir-t165, one sir-t151 and two Sony HD300’s. Although the risk is minor, they are not 100% failsafe.
Meanwhile I will personally continue recording to XP and feeding the T165
boxes I have to my non-HDCP displays.
I will have the firmware disc on-hand just in case it is needed. ;)
btw: I live in one of the U.S. major 200 markets, "Minneapolis"
If problems are to come, they should be here soon.

This message used to say:Well, I just got off the phone with Samsung and the customer care rep told me that the reason I got the "Version Compare Error" when attempting to update my T165 was that version _132 already has the fix, so it was refusing to update the most recent version.Edit: This information was, apparently incorrect... see my new post below.

I already had _134 update installed when I installed the CD and did not get any errors. Install was successful. I hope thats a good sign!

I was getting the intermediate start-up, hash lines, problem, so I wanted to see if this would fix it. So far so good, but we'll see. (My confidence is going to h*** with this, it's been problematic for almost 2 years. I've had the t151 and had it replaced with the t165).

OK, just got an email back from Steve Plechy @ Samsung.

He said the failure to update is abnormal and my box will need service. :(

Thankfully, they're sending a UPS call tag, so the only inconvenience to me will be about a week without it...

Originally posted by kucharsk
OK, just got an email back from Steve Plechy @ Samsung.

He said the failure to update is abnormal and my box will need service. :(

Thankfully, they're sending a UPS call tag, so the only inconvenience to me will be about a week without it...

Be sure to check with Samsung if the call tag doesn't show up timely. I called Samsung customer service with a defective SIR-TS360 and after describing the problems was a told prepaid shipping label would be sent to my local UPS store. A notice was sent to the UPS store that the unit would be sent to Samsung and I waited a couple of weeks but it never showed up and a subsequent call to Samsung determined the CSR was in error and Samsung would not do that, at least with the 360. The 165 may be eligible for that exchange program while the 360 was not, I don't know.

Chris

I believe the call tag is coming because of the failure of the firmware update procedure and because the new firmware is required to be compatible with the broadcast flag.

If it were a "normal" failure requiring a warranty repair I suspect I would have to pay to ship the unit to them, as is the case with most other electronics manufacturers.

Diode1 and kucharsk,

Thanks for the replies.

I'm inclined to delay installing the new firmware and see how this pans out.

Of course I'll have to install the new firmware if a problem develops.

The only risk I can see in waiting to do the update is that as the 165 gets older, I may have less support from Samsung if the update doesn't go so well.

Originally posted by kucharsk
OK, just got an email back from Steve Plechy @ Samsung.

He said the failure to update is abnormal and my box will need service. :(

Thankfully, they're sending a UPS call tag, so the only inconvenience to me will be about a week without it...

I had the same error message. Can you give me Steve's email address or where you wrote to reach him?

Steve's email address

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3673417#post3673417

Originally posted by Diode1
Steve's email address

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3673417#post3673417

Thank you for the info. Fortunatly, if mine has to go back, I can always hook it up to my VOOM box. However, the VOOM box PQ is not as good as the Sammy STB, but still I will have something to watch.

Originally posted by hjw
Diode1 and kucharsk,

Thanks for the replies.

I'm inclined to delay installing the new firmware and see how this pans out.

Of course I'll have to install the new firmware if a problem develops.

The only risk I can see in waiting to do the update is that as the 165 gets older, I may have less support from Samsung if the update doesn't go so well. Right - if your box also generates the "Version Compare Error" when you attempt the firmware upgrade you may be out of luck if Samsung is no longer doing the upgrades in-house at that time... :eek:

(Then again, I suspect they will continue to offer the upgrades at least as long as there are still T165s in the channel being sold and for an indeterminate warranty period thereafter...)

Thats true.

I think I'll just monitor this thread for a while, and think about it.

Originally posted by jtirak
Thank you for the info. Fortunatly, if mine has to go back, I can always hook it up to my VOOM box. However, the VOOM box PQ is not as good as the Sammy STB, but still I will have something to watch.

i have actually been quite surprised at the voom box's performance re ota reception.

it pulls in stations that my sammie t165 has never been able to; as far as pic quality, i can't tell a difference and both the voom and t165 are connected to my sammie dlp via dvi.

is there a service menu that can be accessed for the t165; if so, what is the magic remote or front panel key combination. i would like to find out what version of the firmware my stb is currently running since i don't seem to be having any issues with constant reboot or locking up...

I had this stashed away, author unknown :-}

To check the firmware version, use the STB remote to press Menu, choose Preference, choose Help, turn Help On. Once Help is set On, choose the Help menu to bring up the Help On/Off choice. *While the Help On/Off menu choice is still shown*, press the remote's Info button, and several identifiers will be displayed beneath the bottom of the OSD menus. The 1st item is the firmware version#.

New software seemed to work for about 6 days. Now I am getting the same hash line problems as before on power up.

See thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=405414

Last night it took 14 tries before the unit came on.

Nice try Samsung.

Just tried to upgrade the firmware on my T165 and got the "Version Compare Error" as soon as I powered the T165 on after clicking the "WAIT" button. I see some others have had this issue. Does anyone now of a workaround to get the new firmware installed when you get this error.

Originally posted by smsprague
Just tried to upgrade the firmware on my T165 and got the "Version Compare Error" as soon as I powered the T165 on after clicking the "WAIT" button. I see some others have had this issue. Does anyone now of a workaround to get the new firmware installed when you get this error.

Same problem here. I tried writing Samsung twice. The name of the person listed earlier. I received a confirmation that he read my email but no response back. Someone said earlier that they were sending him an pre-paid package to send his unit back for them to upgrade. He also reported when he talked to Customer service that he was told he got the error message because he already had a newer version with the fix included.

So I don't really know the answer but would also like to find out.

Calling from Canada
Have a SIR-T165, and would like to have the firmware upgrade at least on hand.
I see it can be done using a regular serial cable

Anyway Samsung wont send this upgrade to a Canadian address, as the unit is marketed for the USA, but is useful in areas of Canada near US centres

Can someone make an image of the install CD, or a copy of the relevant files, and either e-mail them to me, or can they be mounted somewhere

PM me and I will give you a higher GB e-mail address
Otherwise my hotmail address is jeffnoone@hotmail.com

Greatly appreciated if someone has the time to help
Jeff

I called Samsung and talked to the Set Top Box guys in NJ. They said that the "Version Compare" error means the box is defective. They are having me send it back UPS and will fix it. Will keep everyone posted.

I just updated my 165 successfully. It appears that it added the picture shift for my RGB output, don't have DVI so I cant check that. I appears that it corrected the black level difference that I noticed with HD and SD signals,
but I need to check this a little more. One thing I definitely noticed is that
when you feed the DVD input a 480p signal the grey scale is not the same as with 480i signal. The 480p grey scale is way to blue. I don't normally use
the 165 to up convert to 1080i but I did try this when I got it and don't remember it doing this, from what I remember the 480p does seem to look better but it seems the 480i to 1080 might look worse or maybe the improvement with 480p makes it look worse

Some people may want to also follow this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4008086#post4008086

Anyone else have the same problems with thier t165 and the
same FireBus Recorder software or D-VHS

I found out you need to be very careful and should in fact contact more than one person to see what your customer care record says about your box.

I sent my box in last week, and even spent $50 of my own money to get it there 2nd day air so I wouldn't have to be without it for two weeks.

I got it back yesterday... with the exact same software.

It turns out the service guys literally plugged it in, saw that it worked, put it in a box and sent it back.

Also note that you will not get it back in the same packaging.

I carefully packed my unit back in the original box, including the protective styrofoam "sleeve", then put that box in a larger outer box to protect it and shipped it off.

When service returned it it was wrapped in a layer of (highly statically charged) bubble wrap, inside a box with "Samsung DVD Player" in 2" high letters printed on the outside, practically daring anyone to steal the silly thing off my porch (most thieves having no idea what a "set top box" is.) Lovely.

I suspect what I should have done, given it was less than 30 days old when I sent it to Samsung, was return it to Amazon as defective and ordered a replacement; perhaps my replacement box would have accepted the software update properly (sigh...)

Note also that when I called to complain, two different customer care reps argued with me to tell me that (first rep) I didn't need a software update if the box was working fine so I shouldn't have sent it in in the first place, or (second rep) the software was only for DirecTV boxes and I didn't need an update. This despite the page on their web site explicitly stating otherwise. Finally a third rep seemed to know about the broadcast flag software update.

So, in summary:

1) Make sure, by calling more than once, that service knows your box is specifically going back for a software update for the HDTV broadcast flag problem. Having a call record and a Samsung UPS call tag means nothing.

2) The service department doesn't make sure boxes going out have the correct software revision as a matter of course when receiving boxes back for any other reason. They literally will not touch the software unless there is a call record in their computer saying they should update the software.

3) Customer care may actually argue with you as to whether the software revision is needed; Steve Plechy is the main person there who really knows anything about the STBs, so you can argue with customer care all day but eventually you may just have to say "Steve Plechy said I need to do this" and they'll fill out the call record. Just make sure that you do number (1), above afterwards or you could end up shipping your box around the country for no reason.

FWIW, Samsung's being great about doing what they can to resolve the issue, but it's still (obviously) a pain, so the advice above is just a heads up for anyone else sending their STB back for the software update...

I can relate. I sent my 605 in to service on Monday for the hash line problem I mentioned above. I typed up and included the problem with the unit in detail, and, because this is the fourth time I am sending a unit in for service, (they always return them in referb. dvd boxes), I asked to return the unit in the same box. The last 3 times I sent in a 501 which they never fixed.

Got the unit back from service on Thursday, in a referb dvd box with loose tape.
Plugged the uint in and there was those hash lines. I think they literally turn the unit on and off quickly, repackage and charge Samsung for a repair that was never made.

I also think Steve Plechy is doing the best he can trying to resolve these problems. The only problem is their service depot is far below par when it comes to trying to get these things repaired.

how to install samsung 165 firmware.
i got firmware file

#1 Turn off the 165
#2 Connect the 232 cable
#3 Insert CD, Should start automatically, if you just have the firmware file
I would guess you just need to double click on file.
#4 Make sure you have the correct port selected (port 1 or port 2)
#5 Select SIR-T165 in the top drop down list
#6 Click on the browse button. select the SIR-T165 App File(enc) and
this will activate the wait button. ( when I did this with my laptop with windows ME the ram. enc. file popped up after I had selected my DVD drive and I had to double click on the ram. enc. file to activate the wait button).
#7 Click the wait button
#8 Turn on the SIR-T165
#9 The download should start and when it is completed it should give you a message box that says success.
#10 After you get the success message turn off your 165 and remove your cable and restart your 165.

For those who have succeeded at upgrading, did you notice any improvement with the new firmware, such as the STB not rebooting itself all the time anymore on channels invalid PSIP and/or poor reception ?

(I don't think this issue has anything to do with the broadcast flag; it's happened all along since I bought the box in 10/2003)

Originally posted by madbrain
For those who have succeeded at upgrading, did you notice any improvement with the new firmware, such as the STB not rebooting itself all the time anymore on channels invalid PSIP and/or poor reception ?

(I don't think this issue has anything to do with the broadcast flag; it's happened all along since I bought the box in 10/2003)

One of our locals caused my T165 to reboot constantly, and they were aware of it but could not (because of a management decision) do anything about the PSIP stream that was causing it. After the update, the problem disappeared entirely. Reception remains rock solid....I get all of the stations in the Miami and Palm Beach markets with just indoor antennas.

---Rudy

I have asked this before, but I will try once more before sending my T165 to Samsung for repair. I am not convinced that by sending it in, that it will come back with the new firmware.

I get the a "Version Compare" error when turning the STB box on after clicking on the wait button. I have tried the update using both a XP and Windows 98 PC. Does anyone know how to get around the version compare error?

Originally posted by smsprague
I get the a "Version Compare" error when turning the STB box on after clicking on the wait button. I have tried the update using both a XP and Windows 98 PC. Does anyone know how to get around the version compare error? The "Version Compare" error means that you have to send your box back to Samsung for repair, there's no way around it.

If you do send the box back, be sure, as I noted above, that your repair record states that you need the software update otherwise Samsung service will plug in the box, see that a picture comes up, then put it back in the box and send it back, software untouched.

Sad, but true. Be sure to mention Steve Plechy's name to the Customer Care rep if you get any pushback at all on your need to have new software installed on your box or are told that the "Version Compare" error means you already have the latest software...

rudy1,

Thanks ! That sounds like enough of an incentive for me to upgrade my box. Does anyone know where to download the firmware update program ? I already have the serial cable needed for upgrade.

Thanks.

After the upgrade, I still get a reboot. It sometimes reboots when switching the audio/video input as I pass through the DVD input going to the AV1 input.

kucharsk,

Thanks for the advice. I put all the info you suggested in a letter with my STB. I also ensured that the reason for the return was noted in my reference number file. Did you call Samsung one they received the box to make sure they did the firmware upgrade?

Originally posted by smsprague
kucharsk,

Thanks for the advice. I put all the info you suggested in a letter with my STB. I also ensured that the reason for the return was noted in my reference number file. Did you call Samsung one they received the box to make sure they did the firmware upgrade? No I didn't, but given their turnaround time by the time you see they've received it it may be back out the door.

Regardless I'm going to give them a call tomorrow to see if I can get status on it...

Question… Can anyone perform more that 1 reservation (program) on the Samsung sir-t165? Any luck with sending it in for service for this problem?

I have the 134, 110, 007 firmware on it out of the box. (Current version apparently) I can successfully program the “165” to record 1 program (1 reservation) to a jvc30000u. It will not work if I have more than 1 program. (Either defaults to 2nd show & deletes 1st; or “165” & JVC both turn on at correct time but the record command does not happen)
I checked the stations clocks & deleted any that were not showing the correct time per above posts. I made sure the program started at least 3 minutes after I shut off unit (per manual)
I called Samsung & talked to Steve. It seems the firmware upgrades weren’t specific to this problem & should be a mute point since I have the latest version. He stated I could send it in for service for them to reinstall the same firmware & check mother board but it was only a “hit or miss” approach to see if it will help. He suggested I explore JVC as any source of problem. But since I have 2 jvc30000u’s that work & record 1 program but not multiple from the “165” seems it is not JVC issue.

Again, anyone have any experience in this problem & any service solutions? What is the best way to mail if I decide to take a chance? Turnaround time experience?

Does the 'analog out always on' fix mean that S-Video in will be output to 1080i on the VGA output?

Mark

Originally posted by drpepper
Question… Can anyone perform more that 1 reservation (program) on the Samsung sir-t165?

drpepper,
I've got the same situation. I sent the following email to Samsung, but received no response:

---------------------------------
Using my Samsung SIR-T165 firewire ports, I can fairly reliably record to my JVC 30K DVHS deck *** if I schedule only one program ***. However, when I schedule 2 or more listings, the recordings rarely work. Often the recording doesn't start - and just disappears from the scheduled list, often the T165 turns on at the scheduled time, but then doesn't record and doesn't turn itself off or turn the DVHS deck off. Sometimes just a blank screen is recorded. Sometimes two or three of the six listings are recorded. Once or twice, (out of many dozens of attempts), it has actually worked for all scheduled listings. It doesn't matter whether I schedule recordings only for one channel or for several. It doesn't matter whether the recordings are scheduled for the same day or for separate days. What's up with these multiple scheduled recording problems? Can this be fixed? Is there a workaround? (My firmware version is S_TIROS3_134.) Thanks for any help you can provide.

PS - I'm aware of the SIR-T165 clock issues regarding broadcast PSIPs, and carefully schedule around the problem, so this isn't the reason for the disappearing listings.
---------------------------------

I recall someone ("merton", I believe) on these forums who complained of the same issue. I believe he indicated that Samsung had acknowledged the problem but they weren't going to attempt a fix. One thing I notice that may be a remote factor in this issue - I have two JVC30ks, as you also indicate is your case. I think I may have pulled the Firewire cable from one and retried - with the same problematic results, but I'm not certain - and it seems that the recorder ID (DVHS1 or 2, etc.), is assigned by the T165 at 1st connection of the recorder to the T165 - the only way I've seen mine reset was after flashing the firmware, although there may be other ways. You can swap the firewire cables, but the ID remains tied to the specific recorder. IOW, once a second recorder is connected, it may influence performance logic even if it's subsequently disconnected. Maybe...

The most successful I've been is when I schedule dummy listings between actual listings - it seems that often "every other listing" will just "disappear", starting with the 1st. So I schedule a "several-minute dummy listing" on the same channel starting about 15 minutes prior to the program I want to record. The STB & Recorder remain on and just start recording for the subsequent listing. Which means max of 3 recordings of available 6 on the STB. Still not entirely predictable, but even single listing recordings occasionally fail.

Anyway, the T165 scheduled listing function is about as crude and unreliable a function as I've ever seen in a commercial electronics component. This function's programming seems to have been an afterthought. It's also maddening that when entering a listing - if a validity test on the overall input fails, the entire entry is blanked, requiring me to start the entire entry over. And of course, the Clock issue... And yet there's been no firewire alternative competition?! Considering the price-range of the T165/JVC30k combo, and how fantastic the recordings look when it actually works, this malfunctioning is really a disappointment.

Finally, I always schedule a recording on my PVR as a backup if it's a show I really want to see.

Originally posted by mdv
Does the 'analog out always on' fix mean that S-Video in will be output to 1080i on the VGA output?

Mark

No (although your VGA output *will* be whatever you set it for on the T165, regardless of the feed resolution). "Analog out always on" means that you can use the T165 to feed your analog VCR using the T165 S-Video *out*. It means the T165's S-Video *out* resolution will be 480i even if your T165 VGA/DVI/Component resolution is set to 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

When this "analog out always on" was not working, setting your T165 resolution to 720p (and only 720p), would result in a "blank green screen" being seen when watching your connected analog component (generally a VCR/PVR) using the T165 as an *input* source.

I have a question about the T165 I was hoping someone could answer. Is there a link where the latest firmware update can be found? (If not, I'll just order it from Samsung, unless someone wants to shoot me an email to my yahoo mail (wkreply@yahoo.com) ).

Anyways, my question is not strictly related to firmware, but I thought I'd give it a shot anyways. Has anyone been using the T165 as a scaler for connecting a DVD player using the component inputs? If so, is the component input capable of upconverting to 720p on the DVI output, or is it limited to 420i/420p?

Or does the picture quality decrease?

thanks rchaz. Question. When did you email samsung about the program recording failing? Recently? After you upgrades? or way back in '03 when your started thread?

Thanks for suggestion on dummy programs. Since my problem is 1st fails & 2nd recorded; I'll try more programs. My 1st test was unsuccessful. Maybe it is hit or miss. Ill try it again on the dummy programs.

Again, anyone else have any luck? Has anyone sent in for this problem & got back good or bad? Seems might be more trouble if Samsung doesn't have a definite fix or a success story under its belt.

Originally posted by drpepper
thanks rchaz. Question. When did you email samsung about the program recording failing?

email sent mid-April '04

Can someone email me the latest firmware file for the T165? I am at 125.

rkirmeier@astound.net

Thanks much,
RK

anybody send me latest 165 134 firmware to this email . steve sent me the old one 125
jswamy@msn.com
thanks

Originally posted by rChaz
Anyway, the T165 scheduled listing function is about as crude and unreliable a function as I've ever seen in a commercial electronics component. This function's programming seems to have been an afterthought. It's also maddening that when entering a listing - if a validity test on the overall input fails, the entire entry is blanked, requiring me to start the entire entry over. And of course, the Clock issue... And yet there's been no firewire alternative competition?! Considering the price-range of the T165/JVC30k combo, and how fantastic the recordings look when it actually works, this malfunctioning is really a disappointment.



Yes, this is maddening. The MIT MDR-200 box is competition isn't it? I ordered one and should have it today or tomorrow.

Mark

Originally posted by rChaz
No (although your VGA output *will* be whatever you set it for on the T165, regardless of the feed resolution). "Analog out always on" means that you can use the T165 to feed your analog VCR using the T165 S-Video *out*. It means the T165's S-Video *out* resolution will be 480i even if your T165 VGA/DVI/Component resolution is set to 480p, 720p, or 1080i.

When this "analog out always on" was not working, setting your T165 resolution to 720p (and only 720p), would result in a "blank green screen" being seen when watching your connected analog component (generally a VCR/PVR) using the T165 as an *input* source.

I realize this was the primary meaning of 'always on' but on my early T165 unit, the RGB output goes dark if set to 1080i and inputing S-video. It even states in the manual that this will be the case. I believe it will only upscale s-video to DVI-D with HDCP support (maybe to component as well?). Some of the earlier posts made me think that this behavior might have changed with the new firmware. I guess 'analog out always on' really means 's-video out always on'?

Mark

Originally posted by mdv
The MIT MDR-200 box is competition isn't it? I ordered one and should have it today or tomorrow.

Once you've tried it, let us know how it compares. Unfortunately, I see there's no DVI, which is important for my DLP. But if it's reliable for recording, that's still a big step up...

Could someone summarize the pros/cons of upgrading to the firmware here (http://www.samsungusa.com/stb_upgrade/) with regards to STB usage/firewire output recording for both non BF programming and BF programming? I'm just trying to figure out whether upgrading to the newer firmware is necessary and what if any functionality I will lose.

Could someone summarize the pros/cons of upgrading to the firmware here with regards to STB usage/firewire output recording for both non BF programming and BF programming? I'm just trying to figure out whether upgrading to the newer firmware is necessary and what if any functionality I will lose.

Yes, please....I've been trying to get answers to this same question for some time now. I'm currently using the 165-->Firewire-->PC with CapDVHS recording method and I don't want my box to become useless after the firmware upgrade. Otherwise, I'll have to get a PC card on order before the 7/1/05 deadline.

You will gain Broadcast Flag compatibility with the upgrade, with the appropriate recording restrictions that come with it.

However, without the update, if you attempt to view a program with the BF set, the STB will just continuously reboot, so you wouldn't be able to record the program anyway - you won't even be able to view it.

So in short, you're not really losing any capabilities with the update as you wouldn't be able to record BF-encoded material anyway.

Figures. Guess it's time to order a PC card and eBay that Samsung box.

I am using the Samsung's "RGB/YPbPr" 15-pin (VGA) connector to a non-DVI equipped HDTV (so, it's not compliant with new digital protection standard).

When the BF is broadcast, will the Samsung's "RGB/YPbPr" 15-pin (VGA) still output a signal to my TV? Or will that output be disabled entirely?

If the BF can be set to cause the "RGB/YPbPr" 15-pin (VGA) to exhibit different behavior, what are the options for what it could do? Could it ever be disabled, or will it only be downrezzed (and, if so, to what resolution)?

TIA

Well since I did the upgrade about 90% of the time when I turn the box on I get 30 or so vertical fuzzy color bars. Does anyone know of a fix? I wasnt having any problems before I upgraded other than not being able to play a tape that was sent to me by someone who very nicely recorded it for me.

I emailed Stephen Plechy of Samsung Electronics America, asking whether I needed the BF update that is currently being offered by Samsung.

He said that the update that he sent me (and others) in November of last year is the latest update. That update was to add horizontal shift and to keep the analog outputs always on even when 720P is selected.

So, no further update needed.

Any contrary facts/claims/opinions?

Originally posted by hbrown
I emailed Stephen Plechy of Samsung Electronics America, asking whether I needed the BF update that is currently being offered by Samsung.

He said that the update that he sent me (and others) in November of last year is the latest update. That update was to add horizontal shift and to keep the analog outputs always on even when 720P is selected.
Perhaps he was mistaken.

I specifically asked Stephen this question, as I had the latest firmware from Samsung but the box wouldn't take updates via the serial port.

He had me send my box back to Samsung (on their dime) to get the update...

Okay, I have re-queried Steve.

2nd question:

Since I already have ver 134 (installed from file emailed by Steve in Nov '03), if I try to install the "new" version "134" from the CD-ROM in the SIR-T165, will I get a "version compare error" and have to return the SIR-T165 for service?

Has anyone who applied the v134 update (emailed from Steve) on their SIR-T165 AND who then attempted to install the v134 from the CD-ROM (sent out to fix the BF issue), NOT had a "version compare" error?

IOW, did it work for anyone? I see at least 2 failures noted in this thread.


TIA

Steve replied very quickly!

He said that the reason the .enc files (CD-ROM vs. email) are different is that they have a different "key," all other content is the same.

v134 is v134. If you try to update 134 with 134 you will get a version compare error.

End of story?

hbrown

Edited to update:

I've been without my box for three weeks (not counting the original two weeks it was gone when it was originally sent back and no software update was done because the original customer care rep I spoke to neglected to mention it needed an update in my call record) because of this stupid update that I may never have needed at all. I can't blame Steve at all, as he only knows what Samsung engineers tell him, and frankly they haven't told him much of anything as to what causes a "version compare" error or why, and frankly it doesn't help much when all the software error messages are apparently in Korean. (This is why Steve told me to send my box in where now it appears I never needed to; it was what he thought was the case at the time.)

Regardless, due to this stupid mixup over software revisions, my SIR-T165 will now have spent two weeks in my equipment rack and over five weeks at Samsung. :eek:

Further, this has all been a highly upsetting experience because I have been promised several things by customer care reps (other than Steve), all of which have either fallen on the floor or have magically either disappeared from or never made it to my call records.

So, for example, though I never once expected them to send my unit back to me anything other than UPS Ground, customer care reps promised I'd get my unit back UPS 2nd Day Air, and shipping on the 19th; now due to "backups in shipping" it's not going out until the 21st, and UPS Ground after all (because they "can't" ship it out any other way, this despite the last box I received from them having a big "Next Day Air Saver" tag on it), which means it won't get to me for another week. Joy.

Steve, as always, has been great about all this; it's just too bad the rest of the company around him doesn't care about their customers the way he does. :(

Frankly, at this point it wouldn't surprise me to find out that Samsung fires Steve because he's making all of their other employees look so bad in comparison... :D

Originally posted by hbrown
Steve replied very quickly!

He said that the reason the .enc files (CD-ROM vs. email) are different is that they have a different "key," all other content is the same.

v134 is v134. If you try to update 134 with 134 you will get a version compare error.



If you go back a ways to my post#71 & 73 (18-Jun-04) on this thread, you'll see that I mentioned that the BF firmware on the recently released CD appeared to be the same version as from last Nov.

However, I *did not* receive a "version compare" error when I installed the CD firmware, so I'm not sure why some receive this and some don't. Prior to finally installing v134 last Nov., while searching for the analog out fix, I also *reinstalled* a prior firmware version with no ill effects. So there doesn't seem to be a version check/block in my experience. FWIW...

I installed the the new firmware twice from the CD and had no compare error.

So far, I think it's established that v134 is v134 (Steve should know about that one) but that the claim attributed to engineering is wrong: version compare error doesn't always happen. Two failures, two successes.

Perhaps the T165 was changed internally in some manner that makes some units give a version compare and others not. Or, perhaps under some OS and system configurations, people can get a bad flash.

Maybe there's a pattern. FWIW I use W2K, box manufactured in Nov. 2002, flashed v134 from Steve's file back last year successfully, used COM1. But I'm not going to flash from the CDROM until more is clear on this subject!

Originally posted by Craigslue
I installed the the new firmware twice from the CD and had no compare error. I think Steve may have been right after all; regardless of whether _132 and _134 are the same or not, if you get a version compare error your box does need to be sent back for service... :(

Originally posted by Jeff Whitford
Well since I did the upgrade about 90% of the time when I turn the box on I get 30 or so vertical fuzzy color bars. Does anyone know of a fix other than powering it off and on again? I wasnt having any problems before I upgraded other than not being able to play a tape that was sent to me by someone who very nicely recorded it for me.
So nobody else has had this problem or has a clue as to what caused it?

Jeff,

Yes I also get this problem, as well as several others.

See thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=405414

Didn't seem to have the problem out of the box, until I upgraded from v_11something or other, although, I only had the unit a few weeks before I upgraded and don't use it all that much.

I have talked to Steve Plechey several times, tried new software, sent it in for repair, (which I have had no luck whatsoever. It seems they take it out of the original box and send it back in a referb. DVD box without even checking it out). Nothing works.

Other than that, it's a great unit, delivers a great picture,(when it works), and I guess we'll just have to live with powering it on several times whenever we use it, although, sometimes it does work on first try.

If anyone has any new revelations on this problem, please post.

My box is on the way back from repair. Upgrade from 132 to 134 software version and fix hash lines issue. Talked to customer service the day after the scheduled repair and they assured me that the software was upgraded and the hash lines fixed. I will let you know if they are fixed when the unit returns.

When the box came back and you had the hash line issue did you push them to fix it or replace with a new one?

Smsprague,
Yes I did.
It's a long story, heres the short version.

I had purchased a t151 that had white dots going across the picture. This went of for almost a year, sent that in for repair 3 times before they offered a new unit, which was the t165 because they no longer made the 151.
T165 had problems, installed a few versions of new software etc.

Now that it's been over a year and a half, and they no longer make the t165, they (Steve) first said that it was now out of warranty, so I would have to pay to get it fixed, they no longer make the t165 so he couldn't send me a new one, then he changed his mind and offered to have it repaired.

I included a note this time when I sent it to their repair depot, that stated exactly how the hash lines show up, AND to return it in the same box.

Hash lines are still there, and It came back in a referb. DVD box.

Not sure where to go from here, It's now been a year and 9 months.

Please let me know if your hash line are fixed when you get it back. Mine failed as soon as I turned it on. Thanks.

My T-165 just came back for the same upgrade. I haven't checked the version number. I got to look back in this thread and see how you see it. But it looks ok, although, it looked ok before I sent it. Also had the "version compare error" but believe the vers I had on was 132.

Are you people getting your original units back?
Check the serial numbers.
Steve sent me the firmware for the t151 and the t165.
The t165 disk arrived cracked, Steve said he would send a replacement disk weeks ago and it still has not arrived.
I did not plan to update until needed, but hey, it’s not all that
difficult to send out a disk...
I know this is not an error by Steve as he has shown how to treat
the customers, now if only the rest of Samsung can follow his lead.

Originally posted by Diode1
now if only the rest of Samsung can follow his lead.

DON'T COUNT ON IT!!!

After 3 weeks of waiting from my T-165 to come back. I plug it in and it is the same V132 I had sent. And I sent it with a detailed letter taped to the unit.

I called Samsung back and got passed to 6 different people. The last one (And I didn't know this until my 3rd call) was in Montreal. They connected me to CVE (WARRANTY) in N.J. ( I was very suspicious when I knew it had to go to N.J.) The girl looked it up and said that they had the same error code as I got so they just sent it back to me and sent a note to Samsung. I said that couldn't you just call Samsung and ask what you were supposed to do rather than sending it back with no note on it at all. She said that is not their policy and there is nothing more they can do. CAN YOU BELIEVE IT!

Next call to Samsung and 3 more persons. I had asked for Steve but they said that was not possible that they would give me someone else in STB engineering. They connected me to a person in PC. He tried to help and said that he could send me a pre-paid box to send it back to CVE. He said that they should have replaced it with an entirely new board. I said why would I want to send it back when they don't know WTF they are suppose to do? ( didn't say WFT but thought it) He said that he was upscaling my call to a supervisor who was not in. Still waiting for that call. The lady from CVE in N.J. asked doesn't the unit work? I said it worked well before I sent it... that it needed the advertised upgrade and that I got the version compare error. She said nothing could be done on her end. They were done with it.

I don't' know where everyone comes from but in PA, common sense usually takes hold. Not in New Jersey. Sorry folks in the Garden State, just needed to blow off steam.

W-T-F

Samsung service are incompetent idiots.

I got my box back today, and the back panel is scratched to hell - it looks like the only tools they had were a flat blade screwdriver and a pliers.

All of the jacks on the back that accept screw-in cables are missing their standoffs - there is no way to screw in any cables.

Finally, they apparently replaced the motherboard, because I sent it in with version 132, and I got it back with... (are you ready?) 129!!!

Oh, and attempting to update the software generates a... Version Compare error.

I really don't know what to do at this point, since my box is now actually cosmetically damaged and is now literally worse off than when I sent it in.

I guess I just threw $400 away when I bought this box, as it's not going to work when they turn on the Broadcast Flag and there is apparently literally zero anyone can do to resolve the situation.

I'm giving Steve and Samsung one more chance before I file complaints with the BBB and any other consumer group I can, and I'm seriously condering suing Samsung in small claims court at this point for literally damaging my property and not at least performing some due diligence and exercising a normal standard of care. This is like taking your car in for service and finding the repair techs drove it into a wall and simply don't care what you think about it.

jtirak, be glad you at least got V132 back; now I have a $400 paperweight and have to apparently shop for a different ATSC tuner.

(Oh, and to reference my last email... once again there's a "Next Day Air Saver" label on the box and it got here overnight... I guess someone in NJ also doesn't know the difference between the "Next Day Air" and "Ground" check boxes on their UPS shipping software...)

Originally posted by kucharsk
Samsung service are incompetent idiots.

Ijtirak, be glad you at least got V132 back; now I have a $400 paperweight and have to apparently shop for a different ATSC tuner.

Oh boy. I don't what to do either. Which service center did you send yours too? I won't send mine until I know what will happen and who will check on it. Like you said, mine at least works the way it was until the broadcast flag is implimented.

Originally posted by jtirak
Oh boy. I don't what to do either. Which service center did you send yours too? I won't send mine until I know what will happen and who will check on it. Like you said, mine at least works the way it was until the broadcast flag is implimented. They only have one - New Jersey. :(

Kucharsk,

I understand completely how you feel. The first time I sent in my t151, it came back with a large dent on the edge of the cover, like someone sat on it.

I have dealt with CVE a total of 4 times now, and every time it's the same thing. Samsung should really take a close look at them.

I have been thinking of reporting to BBB myself. I have never had this kind of experience with any electronic equipment.

My advise at this time...Samsung makes some very good products, no question, but if there is a problem, AVOID THE SAMSUNG REPAIR DEPOT!

Yeah, I agree there.

Steve Plechy has gone out of his way to put a great face on Samsung, and CVE has gone out of their way to paint them as clueless morons who apparently see reparing your hardware as an inconvenience.

It's pretty sad when they can't even reassemble their own equipment without forgetting parts... :mad:

Would someone be nice enough to mail me the 134 firmware (CD version i guess) along with the download software. I purchased my 165 off ebay and the seller was nice enough to remove the serial number sticker, and they refuse to send me the CD. I can make up the serial cable easy enough.

Thanks

Toby
kc8i{REMOVE}md@comcast.net

I use the T165 for OTA HD and have my cable running through it.

Has anyone noticed the substantial degradation of the cable signal through the box? I get lots of interference through the T165, but when I watch with the cable hooked directly to my tv, it is much clearer.

Has anyone else noticed this?

I don't use the T165 for cable, but do run my Standard Definition Dish receiver output through the composite inputs (AV1). I find the opposite of what you experience. The picture is better and the colors are brighter through the T165. I find the upscaling on T165 to be a major advantage. Also do the same for my Game Cube, through the Component Video inputs.

So what is the ultimate tally here? I just sent for the CD "fix" because one station in SD has exhibited this characteristic ever since they changed their signal about a year ago (?) -- it was Fox and they haven't gone full HD yet so I was waiting, but now I see the problem. I certainly don't want to invite disaster by inputing a poison pill -- I'd rather just do without Fox. So how many folks have done the fix without picture shift etc.?

According to the Samsung Broadcast Flag website (http://ww2.samsungsupport.com/broadcastflag/T165_flag_issue.htm), you apparently do not need a software update for the broadcast flag if you have spftware revision V119 or higher.

This means those of us who have sent in our units because we had V132 and couldn't upgrade to V134... apparently never needed to do anything at all. :eek:

I still need to work through several things with customer care (who are being very responsive, by the way, especially Steve, as usual), but I thought I'd post a heads up to save others the pain and suffering.

(As a recap, my original unit had V132, and I sent it back twice for the upgrade. The first time it came back with V132 again, so I sent it back, and this time I got V129 back! That's still higher than V119 so I'd be OK if it weren't for the fact that on this last go-round Samsung service physically damaged by unit cosmetically and forgot to install parts when they sent it back...)

Originally posted by kucharsk
According to the Samsung Broadcast Flag website (http://ww2.samsungsupport.com/broadcastflag/T165_flag_issue.htm), you apparently do not need a software update for the broadcast flag if you have spftware revision V119 or higher.

This means those of us who have sent in our units because we had V132 and couldn't upgrade to V134... apparently never needed to do anything at all. :eek:



Oh Great. I got a call back from a supervisor who said apologized and offered me a pre-paid box to send it back or give me a new SIR TS-360.

I am not sure which to to take. I currently have VOOM and not DIRECT TV and I use the T165 to switch between OTA, DVD and VCR. Can the TS 360 also do the same? Also how well does the 360 perform verus the T 165?

Looking for a little advise here as what is the best course that now you say it was never needed in the first place. but don't want to pass up on the opportunity.

jtirak,

At this point, I would stick with the t165. I already know the problems and can live with the constant powering up for the time being. I suggest doing a search on these forums for t360. I wouldn't be suprised to find a whole new set of problems that you would have to deal with.

I would only get the t360 to get an unopened box to put on ebay. This way you can get some cash back, but you wouldn't have anything to do your switching.

I tried DTV and hated it. Thinking of trying VOOM. How do you like it? I heard it comes with OTA antenna so you can receive local stations. (no need for another STB)?

Good luck on your decision.

I'd lean towards the 360 if you don't need the FireWire capability, which I don't believe the 360 has; the owner's manual (http://downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/200401/20040108080124609_SIR-TS360.pdf) is on the Samsung web site, so you can download it and check its features for yourself.

(For example, nowhere on their web site does it say that the 360 will do both ATSC and NTSC OTA, but if you read the manual, it will, just like the 165 does...)

For just OTA use it seems like the 360 is the better way to go as most of the issues with it that I've found in perusing various threads have centered around its use as a DirecTV receiver...

Originally posted by hdpaul
jtirak,

At this point, I would stick with the t165. I already know the problems and can live with the constant powering up for the time being. I suggest doing a search on these forums for t360. I wouldn't be suprised to find a whole new set of problems that you would have to deal with.

I would only get the t360 to get an unopened box to put on ebay. This way you can get some cash back, but you wouldn't have anything to do your switching.

I tried DTV and hated it. Thinking of trying VOOM. How do you like it? I heard it comes with OTA antenna so you can receive local stations. (no need for another STB)?

Good luck on your decision.

I have done some seaching on the TS360 and also downloaded the manual. From the manual it does appear that you can connect a dVD and a VCR to it and use it like the T165. Just wanted to know what someone who had it thought.

Also I don't like how the VOOM box handles OTA local HD. crushed colors. It is another Motorola product and IMO it sucks. I rather watch the locals over the T165. I do have both boxes connected to my OTA antenna and have done a Split. Why the module in the motorola is bad, I don't know, but I have had 3 boxes and all the same. The actual VOOM channles are pretty good. PQ has improved recently but still does not rival OTA HD. I am not sure that is not ture of all Satellite services. Perhaps OTA HD is just that much better because the bandwith is more.

hdpaul,

Go my T165 back from repair to fix the hash line issue and upgrade the software from 132 to 134 because I was getting a version compare error. Included a letter with the box requesting that it be returned in my T165 box and spelled out the issues. Called Samsung before the box arrived and made sure all the issue were on file with my reference number. Here are the results:

Unit returned in a refurbished DVD box. No paper work or any info on the repair.

Hooked the box up and checked the version, guess what still 132.

Called Samsung and they said Doug or Steve would call be back, waited a day and got not response. Called Samsung and now they claim that if you have 132 you do not need an upgrade. This is interesting because I have an e-mail from Steve P. stating that I needed it. The help desk guy said he had a message from Steve in March saying that 132 does not need upgrade. Then talked to Steve and he said upgrade is not needed and was sorry for confusion.

I then asked if the anything was done about the hash lines. Support said they have no way of knowing if anything was done. On the plus side I have not had the hash line issue in the first two days. In the past it happened at least once a day so maybe it is fixed.

smsprague,

If your hash lines are gone, and everything is working fine, I wouldn't be too concerned about the version upgrade.

When I first powered up my unit from service, I had the hash lines. Then, about 2 days later I had them again. Since then I have not had them and it's been a few weeks, although I do not use the unit that often with all the summer repeats and few HD sports. I could go for weeks and not have problems. We'll see during the Olympics and football season. I'll be using the unit much more and will have a better idea.

Wish I could pin this down and figure the circumstances that trigger this problem. I'm running the unit through a power conditioner and all my signals are about at mid point on the scale. I have noticed that the HELLO prompt stays on a lot longer than before.

Thanks for the input.

Hate to bring this thread back, guys, but I just noticed a problem with my STB. Let me try to be as succinct as I can and hopefully I can get some advice. I have the SIR-T165 paired with the JVC 30K to record HD OTA through firewire. Okay. I received the firmware downloader package to address the broadcast flag issue. I had thought about holding off on installing it but decided to go ahead in view of the fact that I was experiencing some rebooting on a new digital subchannel that recently was launched in my area. I now have version 134 downloaded even though the CD is labeled 133. At least that's what the version is that is displayed on the STB when I bring up the version from the Preferences menu. Incidentally the new firmware didn't help the rebooting issue at all. As a matter of fact it was worse because the STB literally froze on the new subchannel and the only way I could get it off was to disconnect the antenna cable. Yesterday I did my first scheduled recording with the new firmware. I've had this unit for almost a year and never experienced any problems taping from this combo in the past. I happened to be sitting there when the recording began and everything appeared normal until I observed that the JVC was not recording. It powered on but instead of going to HS mode it was in STD mode. I then went over and manually pushed the record button on the VCR and it started taping. Lo and behold I discovered that recording a HD program in STD mode produces no picture. I thought it might be a tape issue even though I only use the Maxell DF-300s. I did a couple of more tests this morning and the same thing happened. Everything was fine until the VCR started recording. It defaulted to STD mode and no recording was made. The funny thing is that I can record in HS mode if I manually push the record button from the Firewire menu. I then tried reinstalling the new firmware but it didn't resolve the issue. I then called Samsung support. The guy said he would pass my issue to Steve and that I should hear from him by the end of the day but I didn't hear from him. I thought I would throw the issue out there and see if some of you experts had any thoughts. I haven't tried unplugging the STB but do you really think that would be helpful or necessary? Also as far as I know there is no way to manually adjust the tape setting on the JVC from HS to STD if you're taping HD. Am I wrong? While I'm asking questions, is there any way to go back to the old version? This is my first experience dealing with the vaunted Samsung customer support. I'm disappointed I didn't hear back from Steve today but I'm willing to give him a few days to respond.

I have read this tread carefully after having my fiasco with tring to get my STB upgraded by Samsung from V132 to V134. They offered me a 360 but what I have read here is that maybe I don't need the upgrade afterall and the 360 has a host of problems that I don't have with my T165. So I think I may pass up on Samnsungs offer to switch. Does anyone agree? Can't find anything that the 360 would give me that I don't already have. I have VOOM and not DISH so I don't need that tuner

Originally posted by billodom
I have the SIR-T165 paired with the JVC 30K to record HD OTA through firewire. ... I now have version 134 downloaded.... Yesterday I did my first scheduled recording with the new firmware. I've had this unit for almost a year and never experienced any problems taping from this combo in the past. I happened to be sitting there when the recording began and everything appeared normal until I observed that the JVC was not recording. It powered on but instead of going to HS mode it was in STD mode. I then went over and manually pushed the record button on the VCR and it started taping. Lo and behold I discovered that recording a HD program in STD mode produces no picture. ... Also as far as I know there is no way to manually adjust the tape setting on the JVC from HS to STD if you're taping HD. Am I wrong? While I'm asking questions, is there any way to go back to the old version?

Welcome to the reliability that is T165 scheduled recording (reliable in its unreliability, that is.) If you look back to posts in this thread in the range of 115 - 122 (page 6), you'll see that others suffer this unit's quirks with scheduled recordings also. I have only had the JVC 30k since installing v134 firmware in Nov03, so it could very well have been inflicted by firmware bugginess. Maybe, if enough people upgrade to the latest firmware and also use the T165 for multiple scheduled recordings, there will be enough complaints that something's done about it - but I doubt it. There is no way to "save" a firmware version from the STB prior to update, so unless you already had an earlier update file or can obtain one from Steve (doubtful he'd give you an earlier one), you're stuck with the latest.

HS vs STD is selected automatically by the 30k for D-VHS recording - no manual intervention available - but be sure to "select" the DVH-S recorder from the Sammy firewire menu to ensure that communication is occurring properly before beginning to record. That should initialize HS properly.

The T165 scheduled recording behavior of turning on the JVC unit and just leaving it on, but doing nothing further, is a typical flaw when you schedule more than one recording at a time. Single scheduled recordings are much more reliable, but can still be flaky. Of course use great precaution to plan around PSIP clock errors - if possible at all.

Originally posted by rChaz

To check the firmware version, use the STB remote to press Menu, choose Preference, choose Help, turn Help On. Once Help is set On, choose the Help menu to bring up the Help On/Off choice. *While the Help On/Off menu choice is still shown*, press the remote's Info button, and several identifiers will be displayed beneath the bottom of the OSD menus. The 1st item is the firmware version#. My firmware, which is the latest, shows S_TIROS3_134 and includes updates to allow "always on" analog outputs, as well as dvi (and RGB) horizontal shift and firewire correction. (I'm not sure what is meant by "firewire correction" - that's all I was told. You may be able to track it down in a forum search.)

Thanks for your prompt and helpful reply. After posting last night, I did another test recording. Before doing that I unplugged and replugged both the STB and the VCR. I discovered that when I left the JVC on that it did indeed record and function properly; i.e., in HS mode. I also would note on page 4.18 of the STB manual it states as follows: The recording mode will be automatically set in the D-VHS device. When an analog program is recorded, the mode will be set to "standard."
Apparently somehow when scheduling a timer recording "by the book," the JVC "thinks" it is in analog mode, thus defaulting to STD and not recording a HD signal.
I put your quote in to emphasize the phrase "firewire correction." I wonder if somehow my update did not include that piece. To me it seems that this is a firewire problem introduced by the firmware update as I did not have this problem before. I've got some more observations and notes, but I'll let you digest this post before replying again.

Originally posted by billodom
I put your quote in to emphasize the phrase "firewire correction." I wonder if somehow my update did not include that piece. To me it seems that this is a firewire problem introduced by the firmware update as I did not have this problem before.

If my memory serves me correctly (no guarantee), AVS posts I've seen have referenced a firewire issue where pressing the "Play" button on the T165 firewire menu could cause "Record" to begin instead. Since I only have experience with v134, I can't verify that issue - I've never seen that behavior - so maybe that was the "correction." All I know is that Steve said the latest (v134) has a firewire correction. Probably introduced five bugs for the one fixed, based on the firmware sloppiness I've seen.

I've little doubt that your new firmware version (v134) is the reason you're now experiencing the same flaws I've had since the beginning of my T165 recording experience (same v134 firmware.) Do you remember what your prior firmware version was? That might help Samsung diagnose the differences.

I also recall seeing one poster here mentioning that Samsung told him they are aware of multiple event recording problems, but not to expect a fix anytime soon.

It has been an interesting day in my quest to resolve my inability to perform timer recordings since I installed firmware version 134. After posting here this morning, I resolved to e-mail Steve Plechy and request my old version which is 125. He sent it to me by return e-mail almost immediately. Needless to say his responsiveness was stunning! I have now reinstalled version 125 and my inability to perform timer recordings is apparently a thing of the past based on the test I made. Steve did caution me in his e-mail that if any stations in my area came online with the broadcast flag that my 165 would just reboot and that I would have to install the new version. I'll be the first to admit that this box has its share of bugginess but after all it is only a second-generation receiver. It has better sensitivity to picking up distant signals than my built-in first-generation RCA receiver. I also like the job it does as a scaler for my DVD player using its component input. I am also equally convinced that a lot of the problems with doing timer recordings lies with the broadcasters who have drug their feet on implementing accurate clock settings. As I say that, I have had timer recordings disappear for no apparent reason as well. I am puzzled as to why with version 134 I could not perform timer recordings. Once the broadcast flag is implemented by a broadcaster, will that take away your ability to record a program at all? At least for the time being I have my recording functionality back. I can't give Samsung enough credit for resolving this issue so quickly. I will schedule some multiple recordings soon and report back my results.

Originally posted by billodom
I have now reinstalled version 125 and my inability to perform timer recordings is apparently a thing of the past based on the test I made. Steve did caution me in his e-mail that if any stations in my area came online with the broadcast flag that my 165 would just reboot and that I would have to install the new version. .... I am puzzled as to why with version 134 I could not perform timer recordings.... At least for the time being I have my recording functionality back. I can't give Samsung enough credit for resolving this issue so quickly. I will schedule some multiple recordings soon and report back my results.

billodom,
Most interesting:
1) Steve had an older version by number, and was willing to provide it - kudos to him.
2) Pending some further testing to verify, it appears the T165 v134 firmware (latest version & req'd for BF handling) is indeed flawed regarding recording to the JVC30k.

billodom - please let us know how your multi listing recordings fare under v125.

I *wouldn't* give Samsung *any* credit unless they plan to fix the now known crippling bugs in their latest firmware - and test it thoroughly. There's absolutely no excuse for a company forcing customers to jump through hoops and choose which version of firmware to load based on which flaws are the least damaging. This hardware is not cheap - it was premium and should be supported as such.

rChaz,

You are right on track with Samsung box. They advertised it as top of the line and did not deliver. My box has been back to get the software upgrade (version compare error when trying it on my own) and fix the has line issue. Box came back with nothing done to it, still had version 132 and still has hash line issue. Turns out I did not need the software upgrade even though I have an e-mail from Steve saying so. They can not even tell me if anything was done about the hash line issue. I am so soured on Samsung that it has caused me to think twice about all their products. Yesterday I was buying a new Sprint PCS phone and ruled out Samsung phones without even looking at them.

I concur with rChaz -- it is reprehensible and probably unlawful for Samsung to treat its products like unacknowleged illegitimate progeny and its customer base like the adopting parents who, when they need to know something of the child's medical history because of grave illness, are told take care of it yourself (in effect what creating deficient firmware patches does).
Is there ANYONE out there who has successfully installed the new firmware without disastrous consequences? (I would consider not being able to timer record multiples a disaster)
I have the new firmware but am afraid to do anything with it.

Hi,

I tried to upload the firmware, but the process interrupts after a few seconds. I simply can't upgrade the firmware. Having read the stories about units being shipped back untouched I hesitate to take the costs of shipping the unit back to Samsung and pay international shipping rates just for getting nothing. It seems that Samsung tries to fit into JVCs shoes.

Regards,
Andreas

Mixed bag. Scheduled six separate programs from six different channels from Sunday, 8/8 through tonight, 8/12. All were recorded properly. To make this procedure work, however, I had to manually tune the 165 to the station whose program I wanted to record prior to the beginning of it. Of course this defeats the convenience of scheduling timer recordings. Why is this necessary? Because, unbelievably, all but one of our 11 stations in the DC-Baltimore market transmit the inaccurate time. I can schedule six separate programs and they will record flawlessly but they all have to be on the same channel. I guess I should be thankful that they at least display the correct date :rolleyes:! I dug back through the archives and found this old thread (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=187523&highlight=sirt165) that some may find interesting. I commend Samsung for making this technology available, i.e., being able to record and archive HD. Where were the other manufacturers?

Yesterday Tweeter offered me the t165 for 300 on a special(they said).After reading this thread Im so glad i didnt go near the deal.Anyone know of a reliable hd set top box with qam tuner? thanks

You could try some of the LG boxes. If you only want OTA then the 3100a or its successor the 4200a are good choices that have qam.

Originally posted by billodom
...Scheduled six separate programs from six different channels from Sunday, 8/8 through tonight, 8/12. All were recorded properly. To make this procedure work, however, I had to manually tune the 165 to the station whose program I wanted to record prior to the beginning of it. ... Because, unbelievably, all but one of our 11 stations in the DC-Baltimore market transmit the inaccurate time. I can schedule six separate programs and they will record flawlessly but they all have to be on the same channel.

billodom,
Can you elaborate a bit? eg:
1) From what you say, it sounds like you entered all 6 scheduled recordings at the same time? (True-Multi) And each day you just manually switched channels between recordings, but didn't make further adjustments to the scheduled recording list.

2) Have you tried adjusting your start/end times to adjust for the clock differences between the individual channels? eg, if ABC is on time, and NBC is 10 minutes fast - 1st prog for NBC is scheduled to Start 10 minutes late, and end 10 minutes late. 2nd prog for ABC is scheduled to Start 10 minutes late (picks up start time clock from previous channel) and End on time. Etc? (This of course can only be done within limits & depends on which direction the time is off from one station to the next. If the clock error is outside the bounds, the listed recording just disappears.)

3) When you reverted from v134 back to v125, did you use the same loader program, or does Steve send you an older one along with the older .enc firmware file? Just curious.

I'm thinking about asking Steve for the v125 firmware, because for now the multi-scheduled recording capability is more important than the broadcast flag. Yet I shudder with dread every time I load firmware to this device. So far it's just been "choose your set of crippling bugs" based on your priorities, but one of these times I can imagine the "version compare" error, and then the game is over. Russian roulette.

...at which point I can imagine Samsung suggesting I spend some cold hard cash to purchase their current, but not quite as featured STB, like they did when I wasn't happy with the feature I lost last year after a T165 firmware "upgrade". (Could this be part of a broad HD market conspiracy? Send out crippling firmware under the guise of an industry requirement, but really just force a new purchase to re-obtain the features crippled by the supplied firmware? No, I guess that's reaching...) ;)

rChaz:

Good questions. Your first question is correct. I set up the recordings at the same time, offset the proper begin time for each individual channel since all but one is off by varying times, and then manually tuned the correct channel before the next program began. I will today (8/17) schedule six separate programs using your method you put forth in question 2. If I have it figured right, I only have to figure the appropriate time to begin recording based on the time of the previous one. In other words, if recording 1 begins at 9 PM and the station's time is an hour slow, I schedule it for 8 PM. If recording 2 begins at 10 PM and that station's time is 53 minutes slow, I schedule it to begin at 9:07 based on the first channel's clock. And so forth. If it is more complicated than that, I will let you know. It seems simpler than I thought it would be if that in fact works. As for your third question, Steve sent me the old downloader (ver 2.40 I think) but he sent it to me at work and my e-mail program there blocked the exe file. I used the downloader that was present on the CD containing the 134 and it worked fine. Stay tuned.

Originally posted by billodom
...If I have it figured right, I only have to figure the appropriate time to begin recording based on the time of the previous one. In other words, if recording 1 begins at 9 PM and the station's time is an hour slow, I schedule it for 8 PM. If recording 2 begins at 10 PM and that station's time is 53 minutes slow, I schedule it to begin at 9:07 based on the first channel's clock. And so forth....
billodom,
Actually, in your example (assuming 1 hour shows), this is how I'd schedule:

1) Actually Airs 9-10pm, but clock 1 hr slow on 1st channel, so Program as follows -

Start 8:00pm, End 9:00pm (clock controlled by initial channel clock setting for both Start & End - presuming that STB was initially turned off while tuned to the 1st program channel.)

2) Actually Airs 10-11pm, but clock is still on 1st channel time *until the 2nd recording starts* - at which time the clock adjusts to 2nd channel time as the new channel is set, so Program as follows -

Start 9:01pm (would like to enter 9:00pm, but that gives schedule conflict w/1st prog ending time) In this case, prior to kicking over to the new channel, *at moment of the Start of Recording 2*, the clock will *still* be set based on the 1st channel - 1hr slow. Once the channel has switched (at the start of recording), the clock is now on the 2nd channel's time, 53 minutes slow, and so the End should be set for 10:07pm (instead of 11pm actual time.)

Start 9:01pm, End 10:07pm (Start controlled by 1st channel, End controlled by 2nd channel time)

3) The 3rd scheduled recording would be set to Start 53 minutes early due to the prior channel's 53 minute slowness. It would End based on the 3rd channel's time issues. (Start controlled by 2nd channel, End controlled by 3rd channel time)

4) Start controlled by 3rd channel, End controlled by 4th channel time) Etc.


Of course if adjacent times are off by too much or in the wrong direction there's not much you can do. Also, with 2) above - it's possible that at the moment the channel is switched (actual time 10:01pm) to the 2nd program & the clock is adjusted from 1 hr slow to 53 minutes slow, it will jump from 1st channel time of 9:01 to 2nd channel time of 9:08 and think that it's past the start time of the recording scheduled for 9:01??? Maybe this is ok, as long as it's not past the scheduled End time, in which case the scheduled listing just disappears. Confusing - like time-travel paradoxes. If only Samsung provided an option to ignore PSIP clock adjustments - how hard can that be?!

Just to let people know - based on billodom's information, I reverted my T165 firmware from v134 to v125.

Finally, after suffering through many missed season/series finales due to failed multi-list recordings operating with v134, I am successfully recording multi-listings using v125. Ironically, v125 is the DVI-shift correction firmware version where "analog out" became broken when the T165 is set for 720p - my reason for beginning this thread. (Since I now can record digitally to DVHS, I really won't be impacted like I had been when all I had was an analog PVR.)

Samsung says the engineers are working to fix the v134 recording issue, so I expect there will be another attempted firmware fix before the Broadcast Flag problem rears its head.

Also - the clock timing when changing between recorded channels does indeed work as I described previously - *Start* time is set from the prior channel PSIP, *End* time is set by the current channel PSIP. Of course this can practically require a spreadsheet to track and compensate for the different channel PSIP clocks vs Actual time, so I'll probably still suffer the occasional missed finales.

I searched this thread but I don't know if such a thing exists. Is a vertical shift over the RGB connection possible? If so how do you do it? I have a problem with one of my HD channels. The picture has a black static like strip across the top. Its only on one of the channels too.

Originally posted by rChaz
...the clock timing when changing between recorded channels does indeed work as I described previously - *Start* time is set from the prior channel PSIP, *End* time is set by the current channel PSIP. Of course this can practically require a spreadsheet to track and compensate for the different channel PSIP clocks vs Actual time, so I'll probably still suffer the occasional missed finales.

Kudos to rChaz for his very clear and concise post re timer recordings on the 165. Hopefully that will put this thread to rest while we wait for Samsung to work out the bugs re the broadcast flag. I also have a confession to make. Apparently when I loaded version 134 and then reloaded 125, the default time setting reverted back to daylight saving time off. I just discovered this yesterday, 8/19, and made the adjustment to DST on. My station times are still slightly off, but nowhere near what they were before. I am hopeful the broadcasters will get on board with their PSIP info in the not too distant future.

I'm sure most of you have noticed the debug menus accessible through the serial port...

57600,8,n,1 to talk to the box

if you turn the box on while connected you can see the boot messages.

if you hit 'k' once the box is booted it takes you to menu allowing you to do all sorts of funky stuff.

I have not explored everything yet, but it allows you to set channel, display stuff on the front screen, and give commands to the AV switch, among lots of other stuff.

Slightly off topic, but some of you may be interested.

Strydre,

Can you please elborate some more??? What app are you using on your pc??? Telnet or what???

Thanks,

Hyram

Ok,

If I had read all this 3 weeks ago I propably would not have bought one 2 weeks ago. I had read everything I could on the 165 and made the plunge. Somehow this thread slipped through the cracks. I knew there where concerns but thought that the positives outweighted the negatives. Having just found and read this today, I was overwhelmed with all of your problems, and dread my future.

However, I must say that to date I have not had any of the problems you all seem to have sweat blood over. My fw version is 125 which seems to be the most stable (no plans to change at the moment), no hash, and no hortizontial shift. I have yet to get with the recording gig but will soon. So far I've really enjoyed the 165, the pq is outstanding on HD, and the SD is even better than I've gotten otherwise. I don't much care for the dwell time to move from one channel to the next. But all in all I've had a good experience so far.

Now the question... My OTA viewing habits really don't require me to keep tapes, I just record shows to watch on my schedule, so, I'm considering a dvr rather than a DVHS. Has anyone out there tried a dvr like the RCA DVR10 with the 165??? What's good, what's bad about this setup???

Thanks for everyones efforts here, it's been a real education.

I have not completely read all posts regarding this STB. I am having about 50% of my timer recordings fail. Picture quality and reception is acceptable but not being able to rely on timer recording makes it almost worthless to me. I have version 134. Is there anything I can do other than set an alarm clock to wake up and start recordings? My old 169time modified RCA DTC-100 will replace this thing for OTA timer recording unless I can figure something out.

Chris

Originally posted by Chris Gerhard
...I am having about 50% of my timer recordings fail....not being able to rely on timer recording makes it almost worthless to me. I have version 134.

v134 is the culprit. You will NOT be able to reliably record with that version of firmware. Do yourself a favor & install v125 (see recent posts.)

http://ww2.samsungsupport.com/broadcastflag/T165_flag_issue.htm even seems to indicate that:

"Any STB manufactured after NOV 2002 should display a firmware version 119 or higher and do not require a firmware update for the STB. Owners of these units do not have to register for the broadcast flag update."

Contradicting information from Sammy, so who knows...

Chris I think I can send you version 125 if you want.

Hi,

Samsung sent me a blank CD...can some one e-mail the current firmware for the T165? harlock@somtel.net

Thanks,

Harlock

So is there anyone out there who is using either v134 or v125, who has defeated a known broadcast flag rebooting issue and can reliably record?
I need the recording capability which is now at 100% reliability but have the rebooting problem. I have both software versions, but won't install until I know recording won't be messed up.
Thanks members.

Haven't used mine in a while. Now all I get is the HELLO. Menu button does not respond. Arrows will change channel. Is there a way to "reboot" this thing? Tried turning it off and on etc. Also, I cannot find any firmware updates on the website, only the pdf manual.

Hey Chewitt,
Welcome to the wonderful world of Samsung! You obviously landed on a broadcast flag station -- only thing that works is to disconnect antenna and change channel to a non-rebooting one. Should work unless they are all broadcast flag in NY.

Now, how about new firmware installers -- I have yet to hear from one who has no complaints after installation -- everything ducky...anyone?

It appears everyone has abandoned this reciever -- is there no hope? Anyone out there install the new firmware successfully -- no glitches in timer recording?...ANYONE?...

Even though my T165 is quirky with an occasional reboot and timer recording miscues with my JVC 30K (mostly stations fault with wrong time), I like my T165. I get a terrific 56" HD picture, looks as good as the plasma pic in Best Buy! I did the firmware upgrade from v.112 to v.125 last Spring, check out my thread at:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=375497&highlight=t165

My horiz. shift problem is fixed, and although I received the CD with the broadcast flag version upgrade from Samsung, I'm waiting until I have a taping problem first. I taped CSI last night , no problem, I'm happy.

wjmeyer: I have both the v125 and v134 and have installed niether -- one station is rebooting with more sure to follow, but I won't sacrifice my 100% recording capability (when I account for wrong station time, I never have a problem).

Sent Steve P. many emails -- yesterday I forwarded the last unanswered one. He responded with: Just got back in the office, didn't have time to respond (a week or two ago it was when initially sent). Then did not respond to the questions it posed, then or later.

Sent another today. Went unanswered. The sorry engineering that caused all these issues is one matter, the customer service seems to establish a standard. This does not make me happy.

Does anyone know if the older version 125 has the hash problem. I have the more recent version and this is really annoying.

Thanks,
Paul

Originally posted by hdpaul
Does anyone know if the older version 125 has the hash problem. I have the more recent version and this is really annoying.

hdpaul,
I have a feeling that the Hash problem is a hardware issue (a common one.) I've never run into this issue on my STB with any of several firmware versions I've used, including v125 & v134. I've never had a problem installing or reinstalling firmware, and I suspect that's a hardware component glitch as well.

Emaych,
Regarding recording - I'd say you are guaranteed to have recording problems if you install v134 - primarily if you schedule more than one recording at a time, but single recordings can also occasionally be flaky, as even recordings started on the fly using the firewire menu can be - they don't always record viewably, despite seeming to be the proper "I" channel & HS while recording. Completely problematic.

When I finally switched to v125 (albeit with analog out 720p blank green screen problem - if recording to an analog VCR), recording to the JVC30k immediately became a whole lot more reliable - subject to PSIP clock issues, signal strength during storms, and other issues beyond the STB control of course. I can't imagine this STB/JVC combo ever being 100% under any circumstances over time, but it's certainly much, much more so than I ever had with v134. I have noticed a bit flakier "Play" operation however. Once I pressed "Play" with the firewire menu and the JVC started to record. Occasionally the firewire connection will be dropped during playback while the JVC continues to play, although just going into the firewire menu and selecting between my two recorders reconnects again. Occasionally I'll press the firewire "Play" button and get some message about a signal error & no play response, but turning the JVC off/on usually straightens that issue right out. I never had those quirks with "playing" a properly recorded tape using v134 - when I was lucky enough to get a proper recording. But recording has now been very good since installing v125, which is far more important than the occasional "play" quirks in my opinion.

Bless you rChaz for that response -- I can't seem to get any good info on this subject from any source -- now I have your detailed user findings to go on. I was told by Samsung that the v125 would satisfy my needs, but I still can't get it -- my ISP is stripping it off any email as if it were a virus. Can anyone save it to disc? Samsung said I would have to send ther unit in -- something I think I would be very, very reluctant to do given the track record. Also rChaz, you didn't mention if you were dealing with a known broadcast flag issue, in other words, did your box start to reboot on any stations before installing the new firmware? Another thing, I have the ORIGINAL firmware from first generation and have experienced the firewire-playback-misinterpreting-to-record phenomenon too.
Thanks!

rChaz: OK I found a way to get v125 in my DOCUMENTS -- now, what do I do with it? It is in a zipped file -- how does one open it? and in so doing, will a step list of sorts be presented to make it obvious what to do? You can PM me if you would or respond here.
Thanks!
MH

I had a problem with hash till I put the 125 firmware ive got into my 165. I didnt get the hash problem till I loaded 134.
Originally posted by hdpaul
Does anyone know if the older version 125 has the hash problem. I have the more recent version and this is really annoying.

Thanks,
Paul

I have version 132 and get the hash problem all the time. Would if be a good idea to try and install version 125 get get rid of the issue? If so how would I get version 125?

Thanks,

Mark

Of those who are installing this firmware, could I get someone to give me a rundown of the steps involved in this operation -- I have the v125 waiting to be installed. How is this done? Anyone?...
Thanks

Originally posted by Emaych
...rChaz, you didn't mention if you were dealing with a known broadcast flag issue, in other words, did your box start to reboot on any stations before installing the new firmware?...
Emaych,
I've never experienced the Broadcast Flag problem, however - I'm not sure if it's in use in my area yet (NYC). Also, I've always had versions of the firmware which supposedly deal properly with the issue anyway (ie version 119 or higher.)

Re installation of v125: You need WinZip or equivalent to extract the zipped files. (You can download a free trial version of WinZip if necessary.) There should be a Word doc inside the zip which will walk you thru the process. Also, if you signed up with Samsung for the CD (v134) & serial cable , you can use that more English-friendly version of the installer (STB_SW_Downloader_V310.exe) but substitute the v125 "ram.enc" firmware-code file from your v125 zip. Also, there's a printed "How To" inserted into the v134 CD sleeve.

Sounds like a good idea for me to try 125 if I could get a copy. At this point, there is nothing to lose, if it does'nt work, I could go back to 134.

Thank you rChaz!
That is the first thing approaching an explanation that I've been exposed to -- I don't understand it, but I still hope to.

I gather if I attempt to open the zipped file by right-clicking the document, the computer will inform if I have the necessary Winzip to open it, and that if I do not, there is some source, possibly Microsoft, that I can go to and download that capability? Once in my computer, when I right-click again, it should just open and reveal elements of the contents, among which are the word document which will explain anything from there?

Did I get that fairly straight? Also thanks for the info about whether you are dealing with a known broadcasr flag issue -- there has been some controversy over whether v125 corrects that and I certainly don't want to eradicate my recording capability with v134, but I do have a known issue in my area, which is the ONLY reason I am considering installing anything and trying to deal with this -- what a headache!

Thanks much for your assist rChaz! -- most helpful!
MH

I am just trying to get some assurance that I am not making a big mistake.

I currently have V132 on my STB and get the Hash line problem quite frequently. I am thinking of installing V125 on my STB, thinking this will fix the Hash Line issue.

Is it a consensus that V125 does not have the Hash line issue?
Is their a downside to back-leveling my box from V132 to V125?

Thanks,

Mark

Originally posted by smsprague
Is it a consensus that V125 does not have the Hash line issue?
Is their a downside to back-leveling my box from V132 to V125?
Mark,
It depends whether it's firmware, hardware, or a combination of both which actually triggers the "Hash Line" issue. Or possibly a settings influence, such as 720p vs 1080i configuration, or DVI vs Component. All I know is that I've never seen this on my 165, and I've used several firmware versions, including v134 & v125 (DVI @ both 720p & 1080i). Since there are no official "Release Notes", only Samsung knows what the specific differences are between the various firmware versions - and even that's questionable. If v132 is your original firmware version, you won't have a file for restoring v132 if you determine a freshly installed version makes things worse. That's the sad realization I had when I updated my original version - it broke a feature I'd been using at the time, and Samsung couldn't provide a firmware file to restore the original version.

Maybe one of you scientists/engineers have pinpointed the actual variables behind the "Hash Line" issue?

Originally posted by Emaych
I gather if I attempt to open the zipped file by right-clicking the document, the computer will inform if I have the necessary Winzip to open it, and that if I do not, there is some source, possibly Microsoft, that I can go to and download that capability? Once in my computer, when I right-click again, it should just open and reveal elements of the contents, among which are the word document which will explain anything from there?
Emaych,
Correct. If necessary, two popular Zip utilities are WinZip and WinRAR. I'd give you site info, but I think that's against forum rules, so just suffice to say they can easily be Googled, and can be downloaded for a free evaluation period. Once installed, you'll be able to see and extract the individual files within the Zip archive. (Many distributors of support files just provide a self-extracting Zip in the form of an .exe file, which doesn't require the extra zip utility for extraction - unfortunately not in this case.)

"Ram.enc" is the actual firmware-code file, so you can use the Installer and printed instructions from the v134 CD, and just substitute the v125 "Ram.enc" file from the zip, if that helps. (The installer from the CD is a bit more polished.)

Thanks again rChaz! -- most instructive and seemingly the last puzzle piece to put in place here, but I couldn't help but notice your entry previous to the one this follows, where you speak of breaking a feature with the installation of new firmware -- I still DO at this point have the ORIGINAL firmware from gen 1 and the only thing militating toward the upgrade is the reboot issue on one station that I actually just bought a new STB (MIT MDR-200) to get, which it does. So now maybe the thing to do is keep waiting. I guess probably sooner than later all the 165 will do is reboot, in which case the firmware installation will be more of a resurrection than the regretable error in judgement it may be now...?

Originally posted by smsprague
Is it a consensus that V125 does not have the Hash line issue? Is their a downside to back-leveling my box from V132 to V125?

I've been waiting for a response to this. Anyone have any experience? Have you tried this yet smsprague? I emailed Steve P. about a month ago asking for V125 and never received a reply.

hdpaul,

I was unsuccessful in installing ver v125 on on box. I tried two different laptops and the upgrade program froze from anywhere between 2 and 5 percent done. Samsung said I could try and send it in again for repair, but realistically nothing will be done to it, so I guess I am stuck with ver 132. I already tried sending it in for repair and all I got was 3 weeks with no box and a scratched box back. This is one person who will never buy a Samsung product.

Good Luck,

Mark

This is one person who will never buy a Samsung product.

Make that 2 people, I will also stay away from all Samsung products.

Originally posted by smsprague
I am just trying to get some assurance that I am not making a big mistake.

I currently have V132 on my STB and get the Hash line problem quite frequently. I am thinking of installing V125 on my STB, thinking this will fix the Hash Line issue.

Is it a consensus that V125 does not have the Hash line issue?
Is their a downside to back-leveling my box from V132 to V125?

Thanks,

Mark

Installing V132 did give my box the hash line issue. V125 fixed it.
Mark if you want to ship me your box ill update it for you. You just have to pay the postage and I cant be liable for anything.

Jeff,

I have v125 and it will not install. I also have v134 and it gives me a version compare error when installing. Have tried just about everything to get v125 installed.

Originally posted by smsprague
Jeff,

I have v125 and it will not install. I also have v134 and it gives me a version compare error when installing. Have tried just about everything to get v125 installed.

I notice you are in Tucson also. I have gone from v120 to v134 and then to v125 and all installations went without a hitch. Must either be one of these three things that is bad, your computer serial port, the serial cable you are using or the 165 itself is defective.

Jeff,

I am thinking it is the STB. I have tried two different Laptops, on both the install starts and fails anywhere between 2 to 5 percent complete. I might try and mess with the baud rate and bit settings this weekend.

By the way how does your T165 handle KUAT/KAUS. My box locks up on channels 6-3 thru 6-5 when they are not broadcasting. Recently the box locks up when going to 6-2 or 27-2, but works fine on 6-1 and 27-1. This has been happend for about 2 weeks. All other channels work great.

Thanks,

Mark

Originally posted by smsprague
Jeff,

I am thinking it is the STB. I have tried two different Laptops, on both the install starts and fails anywhere between 2 to 5 percent complete. I might try and mess with the baud rate and bit settings this weekend.

By the way how does your T165 handle KUAT/KAUS. My box locks up on channels 6-3 thru 6-5 when they are not broadcasting. Recently the box locks up when going to 6-2 or 27-2, but works fine on 6-1 and 27-1. This has been happend for about 2 weeks. All other channels work great.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark,

I had the same problems with box lock up on KUAT/KUAS on channels that were not currently broadcasting after I upgraded the box to v134. When I installed v125 that problem was fixed along with whatever problems I was having with the v120 version.

V125 seems to be the best firmware version for the 165 STB. Let me know if you solve the upgrade problem you are having. I know my computer and cable work because I have done two upgrades that went without a hitch.

Bob

Originally posted by smsprague
Jeff,

I am thinking it is the STB. I have tried two different Laptops, on both the install starts and fails anywhere between 2 to 5 percent complete. I might try and mess with the baud rate and bit settings this weekend.



My serial port settings that are working with the upgrade are:

Bits per second 57600
Data bits 8
Parity none
Stop Bits 1
flow control hardware

smsprague,

Check to make sure your laptop is not set to go into hibernate mode within a certain time frame when not in use. Also make sure that all screen savers are turned off. Be sure the laptop is on throughout the download with nothing else running.

This happened to me once. I don't know if it was coincidence or what. My laptop went into a screen saver and when I moved the mouse it came back up with an error message. When I tried it again (no screensaver) it worked fine.

Please keep me posted, I will be trying v125 within the next week.
Paul

Bob,

When you do the upgrade do you disconnect all cables from the box? Just fishing for things to try.

Thanks,

Mark

Bob,

Also noticed that my flow control was set to none. Will try the upgrade with it set to Hardware.

Originally posted by smsprague
Bob,

When you do the upgrade do you disconnect all cables from the box? Just fishing for things to try.

Thanks,

Mark

Mark,

Yes I disconnect everything but the serial cable connected to the computer. I have to take the unit from the living room into my office where the computer is to do the upgrade so I haven't tried it any other way.

Bob

Originally posted by smsprague
When you do the upgrade do you disconnect all cables from the box? Just fishing for things to try.
FWIW,
I've updated FW without incident using both methods:
1) all extraneous cables disconnected, and the STB moved and connected to my Desktop machine.
2) all extraneous cables left in place, using a laptop & serial cable to connect to the STB without removing it from it's regular cabinet. Much easier!

I think it's a STB hardware issue, although who knows - it could be a communications or other setting. But from discussions here, it seems that Samsung is also unable to update when people send in STBs with this issue - and would have to swap mainboards to update the firmware on these boxes (if they do anything besides bang them around.)

Anybody here have both successful and unsuccessful attempts to update the firmware?

smsprague (and all comtemplating buying this unit),

Had bought the same unit SIR-T165... they should call it the SamSUCK SHI-T165... this unit was nothing but a hassle.

First off, tried the latest firmware update (1.36 ?) sent by SteveP. It dies after 4 % or so, after six tries no lock. Looked at the log file generated by the utility and found that the firmware update gets hung on some kind of menu, like its running a script or macro. Sent the info to SteveP and never got a reply.

After this, sent the unit back for a refund (had it for two weeks... would definitely recommend TECH FOR LESS, they rock !). I just wanted this unit to use as a tuner and allow me to tape with my JVC30Ks. This junker wouldn't even let me do that. Timer recording is a joke and a half, and it never worked. Analog reception is horrible. IEEE conenction would dropout after the VCRs were turned off, what gives ? The guide is a joke too.

I returned this unit... awaiting the new LG HDD STB with IEEE on order.
Anyone else, don't even think about buying this piece of junk SamSUCK
unit. I wouldn't take it for free.

I have v134 with multi-timer problem. Steve P. emailed me the 125. I tried & it failed.
I followed the instructions in the zip file & it appeared to start to transfer right after you are instructed to turn on the stb. The STB did its normal startup ( both with all cables disconnected but serial & with antenna cable connected). It doesn't appear to go into any "service" mode or "pc" mode like I am used to with say a digital camera connected to a pc. Transfer appears to be working while the stb goes through the initial hello & previous channel that locks in & then BAM! It stops at ~ 5%. The 1st time a pop up ( maybe error message) appeared but unreadable. The next time it just stopped. I checked the ver. & I still have the 134. I did have to change the daylight saving feature back on doing this.

Now when I tried to memorize the channel back in ... all worked except for my channel 10.1. Strangely 10.0 locked but not 10.1 di not. I have a strong signal (just outside Phila, pa) & got great signal strength before this happened & after it is great on my other TV w/ built in digital tuner so it’s not the station.
***The manual says you can always enter a channel manually. How? How do you get the "."???? If I enter 10 I get 10.0. My tv remote actually has a "." do do this. Any help?***

Any ideas on how to try again to do 125?

Originally posted by drpepper
I have v134 with multi-timer problem. Steve P. emailed me the 125. I tried & it failed.
I followed the instructions in the zip file & it appeared to start to transfer right after you are instructed to turn on the stb. The STB did its normal startup ( both with all cables disconnected but serial & with antenna cable connected).

I to have the v125 version that I received by email from Steve and had already done the upgrade from v120 to v134 with no problem. I did the change taking it back to v125 and it went fine. Something is wrong because as I recall it just stayed on hello till the upgrade finished it did not do it's normal boot up. I had everything disconected from the 165 then plugged the 165 into the serial cable of the already running computer. I then plugged in the 165 to the electrical outlet and ran the upgrade software and made the selections and then pressed wait. I then pushed the on button on the 165 and waited till the software completed and told me to shut off the 165 and disconnect the serial cable. I then reconnected everything and the upgrade was complete and all worked fine. That was my exact procedure that I have done twice and all went fine both times. Hope this helps.

Hmmm... works for some & not for others. What you described is what I would of expected.

I emailed Steve P. at Samsung this morning & he replied this afternoon with "... When you change the firmware it erases the eeprom and then flashes the new software on. If it stops downloading there is a communication error. Please try another pc and see if that helps"
I will try tomorrow & see.

I found that if the computer is shut off when you hook up the serial cable and then turn on the computer and boot up that the upgrade doesn't work.
The computer must be on when the cable is connected to the 165.

There is a definite hardware issue with some 165s.

Those that will allow you to update the firmware seem to allow you to update from any revision to any revision, without problem.

Those that don't will behave the way people have seen - the software download will progress while the unit is in "Hello" mode but then the transfer will abort as the box boots, and the download will never progress past 4% or so.

If you go back several pages you'll see that Samsung told me I should send my unit in for service to correct this, and several trips to New Jersey later not only was the problem not corrected, but Samsung service cosmetically damaged my 165 and forgot to reinstall several parts. and I finally exchanged my 165 for a 360...

DRPEPPER, Are you running a Palm Pilot on your pc at any time and synching software for it. I will elaborate if you are.
Bernie

thanks for ideas. No Palm Pilot. Computer was on. No other programs open in sys tray, no screen saver, etc. I am using Windows ME. I will try win 2000 tomorrow.

Any ideas on my other question: how you select a sub channel directly? The remote doesn't have a "." to choose say 10.1 or 6.3. If it is scanned in memory you can just use the ch up/down. Manual states can enter a channel even if not in memorized channels. How?

update: Tried on different computer... same result.. transfer starts but stb still does normal boot-up & then transfer stops ~ 2-4% when the boot-up is done... Funny the newer manufactured model with latest firmware has most problems. I guess 2 options keep as is or send in & roll dice.

Still looking for answer on how to enter a sub-channel that is not programed into memory channels since remote has no "." for say 10.1 Anybody?

Originally posted by drpepper
thanks for ideas. No Palm Pilot. Computer was on. No other programs open in sys tray, no screen saver, etc. I am using Windows ME. I will try win 2000 tomorrow.

Any ideas on my other question: how you select a sub channel directly? The remote doesn't have a "." to choose say 10.1 or 6.3. If it is scanned in memory you can just use the ch up/down. Manual states can enter a channel even if not in memorized channels. How?


If the channel isn't scanned into memory, you should try entering the actual channel number, not the virtual channel number. For example, here in Ft. Lauderdale ABC is on analog channel 10, but on digital channel 9-1 (virtual channel 10-1). To tune the digital channel, I enter "9" on the SIR-T165's remote.

Update: I had several emails with Steve P. Here is deal

1.) My channel problem
"...Samsung requires psip table information version 2.0 or later from the broadcaster other boxes/tuners may not require & may still function. If the broadcaster stopped transmitting this information the 165 would not pick it up & can't lock on when you memorize channels....
I contacted nbc10 & sure enough their encoder went bad (at same time I tried to update my firmware-timing) & their borrowed one is failing... This may be why I can't lock 10.1 ( virtual) or 67.1 actual on stb but I can on my tv w/built in tuner. So wait & see.

2.) NO FIX FOR TIMER IF HAVE LATEST VERSION FROM FACTORY
Contrary to previous advice...

"......125 was the previous stable version that some users are able to go to BUT can not be installed on the newer units with 134 installed at the factory, which I recently just learned (yesterday)....132 is version 134 when installed at the factory level. 134 is latest version... You can not go back to 125 when you have 134 installed at the factory. 125 is the workaround for most who upgraded to132 with a problem BUT for 134 Unfortunately at this time there is no resolution for the timer issue & NO
FIX!!!

When I pushed to see if there is really any chance of getting an update on a discontinued model that was prone with problems... I didn't get a warm & fuzzy....

I installed v125 on 10-28 with no problems. It's only been one day, but so far it has been working with no hash lines on power up. (Used it 5 or 6 times).

I am picking up more channels now in the lower signal range than with the newer version.

Got to give this a good week or two to see if the hash lines come back, or not.

It has been 2 weeks now since I installed v125. Powered up at least once every day.

I have not had any hash lines at all!!

For anyone else having the hash problem with newer versions of software. I have had this problem for over a year, tried installing several versions, and v125 is the only one that I now believe gets rid of the hash line problem. (If you can get it to install.)

My thanks to everyone on this forum, and Steve P. for all the help. (No thanks to Samsung repair depot. Sent in 3 times with no luck.)

Paul

I just found this forum when I was searching the web for possible firmware updates for my sir-t165. I read this entire thread and my 165 has some descrepancies with what I've read. I bought my box used on ebay back in Feb and have had no functional problems whatsoever (I haven't done any recording though, and there are some 'features' I have a problem with). My 165 was manufactured in December 2002, but has firmware version 112 on it. That is not what Samsung's website says should be the case. But since I have no problems (no DVI shift, reboots, or lockups) I am not going to upgrade the firmware. Does anyone know if the broadcast flag is being used on any channels in the DC-Baltimore area? I am going to order the firmware upgrade from Samsung and I would also like to get my hands on v125 (if someone could please email it to me at darmik2@juno.com) since that sounds like the most stable version. Even with the new firmware, I'm not going to upgrade until I experience a problem.

Mike

You didn't say what problems you are having. My 165 was manufactured just two months after yours but it came with V120. I had originally received v134 upgrade and installed but it caused me more problems then it fixed. They then sent me V125 that has solved all of the problems including screen centering when viewing 4/3 material on RGB and DVI connections. If you call 1 800 7267864 and get to STB secon tier tech support and talk with Steve P. he will send you V125. That appears to be the best version available for the 165.

Email stevep he will send it.. Calling may have long hold times.

I guess my point was that I have firmware v112 and I don't have any problems like lock-ups, rebooting, hash lines or horizontal DVI shift. According to Samsung, all t165's built after Nov 2002 should have v119 or higher, but I seem to have an exception to that rule. The problems I have with the box are not due to firmware, but to engineering; box generates too much heat, should be able to make gray bars black, no way to manually add a digital channel.

There is one thing though, that I wonder if anyone else is seeing. When watching 1080i content in 480p letterbox mode, the image is stretched vertically just a bit, making everything look taller/thinner than it should be. A similar thing happens with 720p content in 1080i mode. I thought it was just an artifact of the up/down conversion of the video resolution.

I will email Steve P. and ask for v125. I want to have it in case the BF issue causes me problems in the future.

Did they ever release drivers for the XP?

Can someone please EMAIL me the latest firmware upgrade for the Samsung SIR T-165 HDTV receiver. Thank You.

res0afnb@verizon.net

Well, I have been emailed the V125 firmware and may have to actually undertake the perils of trying to install it due to conversion of at least one more station with the advent of the new year to the new BF standard. Not looking forward to it is an understatement. The instruictions for use contain single-line entries such as:

Next to chose be downloaded file click browse.

Which is meaningless to me and of course given what else has been reported herein about the upgrade process, is only the first hurdle to overcome. Horrendous!

I noticed several people having the same problem as smsprague:
> I have tried two different Laptops. On both, the install starts, and fails anywhere between 2 to 5 percent complete. <

where the transfer gets a short ways in and then stops. 2, 4, or 5% seem like consistent numbers, reported by several people.

For those of you trying unsuccessfully to load the software, I'm wondering if the cable you're using has all the control-lines wired? I.e., it sounds like the SIR-T165 requires hardware handshaking to accept the data stream at 57.6 kBaud, and that won't work with serial cables that don't support CTS, RTS, DTR, etc. lines.

A serial cable could be fine for some applications, and send data back and forth (with just the Transmit, Receive, and Ground lines wired), but fail on block data bursts that require pausing, with a failure mode similar to what's been reported here. Just a possibility I was wondering if has already been considered and eliminated?

- Tim

Emaych,
> "Next to chose be downloaded file click browse." <

Translated into English :), is:

"Next, click browse and chose the file to be downloaded."

- Tim

VideoGrabber,

After talking to Steve P. at Samsung support about my upgrade failures, he said that if you have version 132 which is the factory install of 135 you will not be able to upgrade to 135 or go back to 125. Basically you are stuck with 132. Now this is after he had me send the unit in for upgrade, they did nothing but keep it for a week and return it in a dvd box. He also initially claimed that I could upgrade to version 135 or 125. Anyway it can not hurt to give it a try. I have decided to just live with the box as is. My only real issue is that about once every week when the box turns on it is all hash lines. By the ways Steve P. at Samsung claims he has never heard of this before and my box is unique (ver. 125 should fix this). I gave up and did not try and send it in a second time for repair.

Mark,

thanks for all the details. That really sucks bad. They generated a version from which you can neither upgrade, nor downgrade? Wow. A real embarrassment for Samsung. That's pretty incompetent, in my book. I was hoping the problem might be cable-related, and thus solvable. :(

- Tim

P.S. Worst case, even if you got stuck with a brain-dead v132, Samsung should be able to physically swap out the EEPROM chips or flash memory with a more forgiving version. These aren't cement blocks. Components can be changed out.

VideoGrabber,
Thanks for the translation, but you can see from the foregoing that my dread at performing this task is not just the language issue -- it does get me closer however!