Originally posted by Rhys
Some one on here must know how these TVs auto detect anamorphic material.
Interesting, I'll check that out.

Analog television has two ways:
1) WSS (widescreen signalling), which sends a signal in a scan line before active picture area.
2) In Europe we have this awful French scart-connector, in which one pin can tell tv, that signal is 16:9.

Mpeg2 naturally has its AR-flags and integrated digital tv-sets should understand that but how about these digital connections?

Dvi, hdmi?
Anyone?

I'm getting my L2335 next tuesday (here in Finland it will be 1700€) so I'd like to know has there been any firmware changes yet?
I'm going to use the monitor also in video editing as a video monitor with s-video connector so is it really so, that L2335 can't show normal 4:3 analog s-video signal with right AR? Amazing engineering if it's really so...

Does anyone know anything about the new 1900x1200 23" 16ms models from Sony and Apple?

DanW

Hello,

I decided to go for the L2335, but now I am having a hard time finding a good video card to drive it. My requirements:

- no 3d
- no big fans that make an awful lot of noise
- dvi output, as I understand with the capacity to 'reduce the DVI frequency'
- easy on the price tag (I prefer spending money on the lcd)

In the past, I used to buy Matrox cards. I see that the G450 and G550 have DVI output, but I'm not quite sure if they can do the reduced frequency thing. They only come with 32megs of ram. Has anyone used them with this monitor ?

Primary use would be to watch televison (still pal here :-() and dvd.

Can anyone make me a good suggestion of what I should buy ?

Thanks a lot !

Kristof

Originally posted by Pelckyboy
Hello,

I decided to go for the L2335, but now I am having a hard time finding a good video card to drive it. My requirements:

- no 3d
- no big fans that make an awful lot of noise
- dvi output, as I understand with the capacity to 'reduce the DVI frequency'
- easy on the price tag (I prefer spending money on the lcd)...
I use a Sapphire Radeon 9600SE. No fan and about $75.

I have been having this problem myself. It is not terribly easy to find reliable manufacturer documentation on the maximum DVI resolution supported by a video card. Most times the max resolution quoted is for the VGA port.

As we know already, the bandwidths we are talking about are on the upper edge of what a single link DVI can do and may be beyond the TDMS drivers on the card even if within the single link spec.

FYI my year and a half old NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 works great at 1920x1080p through digital DVI to the f2304.

Originally posted by Pelckyboy
Can anyone make me a good suggestion of what I should buy ?
If you want cheaper, get matrox p650, if you want faster and triple head, get Parhelia.

I just made a case to hp's support about not been able to scale s-video.
Overscan with PAL-signal is quite big; you get 664x546 out of 768x576 so it cuts out 104 pixels (14%!) horizontally and 30 vertically.
And of course no 4:3 at all...

Originally posted by DanW
Does anyone know anything about the new 1900x1200 23" 16ms models from Sony and Apple?

DanW
Here (http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=804561) is a thread at [H], discussing about the new SONY SDM-P234B, 23", 16ms 1920x1200 widescreen LCD.

I'm trying to decide between the new SONY, and the new Apple 23". They both seem to be re-badged LG, and obviously panel is LG-Philips.

Anyone seen any of those in action ?

William of Byron,
can you give any e-mail addresses to people at HP, who would understand at least a bit about this AR problem and I could ask some questions?
Seems like my monitor is going for firmware update, but I wouldn't like to do that too often, so if current firmware isn't still working and another one is coming, I'd like to delay that updating.

How much lit subpixels do you people have with your L2335's?
I have something like 200-300 always on subpixels on upper side of the screen.
Fortunately I can't see them without putting my nose to screen or using magnifing glass...

EC51 - between the Apple and the Sony, I think it comes down to personal taste, as the only difference appears to be in the casing. Although, you can apparently find the Sony a little cheaper...

between the Apple and the Sony

or any of these others ... I'm particularly keen on their inputs. While I've exclusively been a Mac head since 1985, I can't go for their displays because they've only got DVI now. The Sony has two VGA (that's what "HD 15" is, right?) plus DVI.

Multiple inputs are important to me because I want a dual-use TV/computing monitor. Add DVD player input, and I actually need three inputs including, ideally, component. I know there are input converters and splitters, but for the price of these monitors I don't want to play that game.

Unless I've missed something, are the only 1920x1200 displays with DVI, VGA and component inputs thus far the LG L2320A and HP L2335?

Originally posted by tbacos
EC51 - between the Apple and the Sony, I think it comes down to personal taste, as the only difference appears to be in the casing. Although, you can apparently find the Sony a little cheaper...
I kinda agree with you. They both are re-badged LG anyway, almost entirely made in LG factory. And obviously, they're using the same panel too which is LG-Philips S-IPS. ;)

But few minor(?) things that makes me hesitent to jump on Apple 23" are..

1. Some people (PC users obviously) have trouble vewing pre-Windows screen such as DOS, BIOS. This issue seems quite common, and I don't know if the Apple will display pre-Windows screens with my X800 XT PE.

2. There is no display driver (color profile) for Windows XP (PC). I don't understand how people can expect accurate colors from this Apple on PC platform without proper/official drivers which contain color profiles. :confused:

:)

Latest e-mail from HP:

Morning William,

I was able to veiw the pdf. I see you now have the Zoom option on the
monitor with the latest FW so you can adjust the image even though it is
still not true 16x9. I was able to see the issue using my dvd player
with component output and Analog VGA with a 1.85 aspect ratio DVD movie.
I can now see and understand what you are talking about. I will now
work with engineering on this to see what we can do to possibly resolve
this issue.

Thank you,

William, that is good news. I hope they have a way for advanced exchange or something like that to minimize downtime. How long did it take you to get your monitor back and how much did it cost to send it to HP?

Originally posted by Kamakzie
William, that is good news. I hope they have a way for advanced exchange or something like that to minimize downtime. How long did it take you to get your monitor back and how much did it cost to send it to HP?
I did not send mine in. They sent me a 2335 with updated firmware to test. I have no idea what the policy will be about updates. First and foremost HP must write a firmware update that actually corrects the problem before they can begin to offer a 16x9 update.;) After all this time and e-mails (58 to date) it is hard to be optimistc.

Originally posted by toke
How much lit subpixels do you people have with your L2335's?
I have something like 200-300 always on subpixels on upper side of the screen.
Fortunately I can't see them without putting my nose to screen or using magnifing glass... [/B]
I have quite a few on my screen, also on the upper part - I only noticed this past weekend when sitting very close and with a black screen showing. I've had the monitor for almost three months now.

Even now that I know they are there, I can't see them when looking at a normal windows desktop or non-black area of a DVD.

HAHA very true. I have a stuck/dead pixal anyways so that would be neat if they just replaced it with a new one with no dead ones. It's kind of annoying!!

Hi guys,

I have been reading this thread for a couple of months now and I am worried about the aspect ratio on the component inputs. If I was to get a component to VGA transcoder for the HP-l2335, would the monitor keep the proper aspect ratio for 480p, 720p 16:9 sources, and would they fill up most of the screen or would they be displayed in a small window like it did on the svideo input "one to one" mode picture on TByronT's web page?

William, could you please tell me an e-mail address where you are talking about this problem?
Finnish support does not even know about firmware update...

Originally posted by toke
William, could you please tell me an e-mail address where you are talking about this problem?
Finnish support does not even know about firmware update...
First the firmware update was a beta test and does not work. So Finnish support is correct that there is no firmware update at this time. I don't want to give my assigned technician's e-mail address but I started at NACMSupport@hp.com

I trust William and will let him be my advocate to HP. :)

FYI, I am making progress with my HP exec contacts. They are on this problem and appreciated the heads up. More details later....

Amir

Amir thanks maybe two people can make them understand.

Ok, just sent this to NACMSupport@hp.com.
Let's see what happens:

Hi!

I recently bought L2335 to be used both as a computer monitor and as
a video (editing) monitor.

I have two problems with video inputs:

1) No aspect ratio setting with video inputs, so it's impossible to
edit 4:3 video material.

2) Way too big overscan; monitor tells that it's showing only 664x546
(I assume these are square pixels, because there is no way that monitor
could know the aspect ratio of pixels from analog input)
out of 768x576 PAL video picture. So it's 14% in horizontal direction!
EBU recommends 5% horizontal and 3.5% vertical with 16:9 picture,
but in video editing I'd like to see the whole picture.

So if you could put these modifications to the next firmware:

A) Three aspect ratio settings: 16:10 (full screen for people who don't
mind about right geometry, just want whole screen filled), 16:9 and 4:3

B) Change overscan to about 730x556 with PAL and put Underscan option
to settings to see the whole video picture.

And also if you could notify also Finnish support about these shortcomings
in present units still sold all the time, so there wouldn't be too many
unnecessary returns.
Eg. my case ID was 1205177069 and support didn't have a clue what's
missing or wrong.

I know this is a new business to HP to have video inputs in monitors
and to enter in a strange world of non-square pixels, anamorphic
video and diffrent aspect ratios and geometries, but people who buy
these very expensive monitors with full hd resolutions for work and
leisure are very demanding for quality and if you handle the situation
well you will get lots of good customers!

thanks in advance,
toke lahti

Amir, I am so glad that you are having some luck with your HP contacts. So far, my support tech/supervisor has not yet been able to contact anyone in HP engineering responsible for the design of my f2304. They did ask me to remove my website, but I refused. I only agreed to remove the name of the HP tech/supervisor from my Summary link. With my help, the HP tech/supervisor has now discovered and read some of this AVR thread -- so maybe him knowing that I am not the only one with these problems will help him to establish contacts with HP engineering to get a solution.

Any update on these issues yet? Im thinkin of buying this monitor but maybe ill hold off if there is a fix in the near future..

Chris

Hang in there a bit. I just hooked up with the right HP folks. Have given them this thread to read and when I get back from my business trip in Japan, will be working with them to get some answers.

Amir

Originally posted by ctrl_alt_delete
Hi guys,

I have been reading this thread for a couple of months now and I am worried about the aspect ratio on the component inputs. If I was to get a component to VGA transcoder for the HP-l2335, would the monitor keep the proper aspect ratio for 480p, 720p 16:9 sources, and would they fill up most of the screen or would they be displayed in a small window like it did on the svideo input "one to one" mode picture on TByronT's web page?

Does anyone have an answer to this question of mine?

I just got one of the f2304.. And I tried xbox via Component video.. and It shows up but i get what looks like 2-3 halo-outline looking things around everything.. is this normal or somehting not setup right?

Also any tweaks i should do out hte box to get this thing looking even better than it already is?

Chris

Dear Ctrl-Alt-Del,

I have no experience with such a transcoder. I'm assuming it is a simple "hardware only" black box, so its not likely to be capable of doing anything with the aspect ratio of a picture from a Component Video source. I think it only converts the three analog voltage video color- difference signals from a Component Video source (Y, Pb, Pr) into their VGA (R, G, B) equivalents.

I believe that the L2335 has only one VGA input (Analog D-Sub), like my f2304, so if your PC output is connected to this VGA input you would have to be constantly changing plugs to switch between transcoder and PC sources. Changing the VGA plug is not easy at all (it is a knuckle buster on my f2304).

Dear Amir, and others...

My HP support person did discuss with me the possiblity of "swapping" my f2304 for a L2335, should HP make some future improvements in the L2335 firmware first. I told him I might consider this, because: (1) I don't use the stereo speakers/amplifiers in my f2304, (2) its height is adjustable and can be pivoted, and (3) the specs. for the L2335 indicate it has a "real" Composite Video input selection.

Would all of you readers who own the L2335 let me know if you have exactly the same good pictures AND firmware "aspect ratio" problems I have with the f2304? In particular, do you actually get a good picture on your "real" Composite Video input? Is it immune to the severe "moving herringbone" interference problem I have from my S-Video input with its primitive Composite adapter? These problems are illustrated with pictures on my website (see Item 6 in Details section of http://hpimperfect.home.att.net).

No one has posted anything on this thread since my last post a week ago! Is it something I said?????

Incidentally, I got a call from HP at my office on Wednesday, and they said that they where sending me a new f2304 with "improved firmware" that "solves all my problems". They want me to evaluate it and write a report. I'll let you know what happens when it arrives and I have evalutated it.

very interesting, since the monitor is virtually identical to the L2335 if it really is "improved" it would help us L2335 users as well.

Thank you TByronT.
I'm sure no one thought you said anything inappropriate!:D :D
I'm hoping your report will help me enjoy my L2335 even more.
Thanks again for your efforts.
Vb

Originally posted by Kamakzie
very interesting, since the monitor is virtually identical to the L2335 if it really is "improved" it would help us L2335 users as well.

Yes, actually if you could let us know what the firmware revision is (and how we could check it) that would be great for those of us (myself) who are on the fence about getting a L2335 (assuming they use the same firmware). I guess if you could ask if the firmware fixes also extend to the L2335 that would be spanky! :) It would at least give me a warm fuzzy about spending $1600 on a computer monitor.

16:9 HD on this monitor would be a godsend!

I will ping my HP contact again. I have told them about this thread and Bryon's troubles (and web page). Good to know they are trying to take care of him at least....

Amir

I'm sure they could put in an option where you could have 16:9 when using component and 16:10 when using DVI for computer right?

Originally posted by Kamakzie
I'm sure they could put in an option where you could have 16:9 when using component and 16:10 when using DVI for computer right?

I would say it is going to depend on whether the stretch to 16:10 for component is embedded in the electronic implementation. If that's the case I would be surprised if they make a circuit change for it. If there is a way to do it in some firmware, then maybe.

Dear TByronT,

Thanks for responding to my answer earlier. I hope HP finally got the firmware right on this mofo.

Just received an update (or at least a no update update) from my HP contact.

HP
Good morning William,

You have pretty good timing. I did rceive an update from engineering
just this week stating that they attempting to create a firmware that
would add another Zoom feature that would allow the the user to set
their monitor to a 16 x 9 aspect ratio. As I stated earlier they are
attempting to do this but nothing definite yet. I do not have a
timeframe on when this could or could not be done but I will keep you
informed. If I do not send you an email every week or two please send
me an email requesting an update. I will check to see if I can get some
kind of an ETA on this.

Interesting, I want my monitor in 16:10 for DVI (computer) but 16:9 for component. Hopefully we wouldn't have to change a setting everytime we switch between the two.

Originally posted by Kamakzie
Interesting, I want my monitor in 16:10 for DVI (computer) but 16:9 for component. Hopefully we wouldn't have to change a setting everytime we switch between the two.

Well I would hope it would trigger off of the type of signal you are getting on the respective input... if not... yuck, holy-kludge bat-man.

What I think we all want is to have (at least the option for) the aspect ratio preserved over both DVI and component- ie black bars at the top and bottom for 720p/1080i content.

Here is a roundup of all current 1920x1200 monitors. (http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,118044,00.asp) And the winner is Samsung
but its video performance is criticized.

Too bad they didn't include the new 23" Sony (P-234/B) in their round-up.

According to the article, "One vendor not represented here is Sony; the company's most recent model available during our test period was slated to be discontinued by the time you read this story. "

I'm assuming they're referring to the model just replaced by the P-234/B...

They are goofy about the L2335's video playback. I watch full-HDTV on mine all the time and it looks spectacular.

Originally posted by Kamakzie
They are goofy about the L2335's video playback. I watch full-HDTV on mine all the time and it looks spectacular.

On the other hand they praise Samsung for all ther things. So I wonder
if Samsung is really worse than L2335 in video or they just wanted to have something to criticize :confused:

Darn, I only have 1450x1050 on my 16" laptop. :(

Thanks for the link irkuck. The Philips 230W5VS was previously not known to me, and for someone looking for a dual use TV-computer monitor (especially DVI and component), the Philips may occupy a sweet spot. Here's a CNET review:

http://reviews.cnet.com/Philips_Brilliance_230W5VS/4505-3174_7-30895368-2.html

Anyone here have first-hand experience?

It sounds like all the LG based panels are pretty equivalent, and really it's just firmware/speakers/inputs that are really differentiating. Since my main concern is response time, I wonder when Samsung is going to get on the stick at 16ms or less. Having correct aspect ratio control for HDTV inputs would be nice too... oh well, I still think the 2335 is the best match for me at this point- bum firmware and all.

New 46" Sammy .... review at ExtremeTech (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1673408,00.asp)

Originally posted by Kamakzie
They are goofy about the L2335's video playback. I watch full-HDTV on mine all the time and it looks spectacular.

Are you using the DVI input for your HD viewing.???
If so, what signal are you feeding this monitor, (1080i or 720p) and from whom do you receive your service?
Thanks,
Vb

No I use component and I use both 720p and 1080i depending on the programs native resolution. I use a HD Tivo (HR10-250) from Directv.


Originally posted by 3.1415926 pi
Are you using the DVI input for your HD viewing.???
If so, what signal are you feeding this monitor, (1080i or 720p) and from whom do you receive your service?
Thanks,
Vb

Thank you, Kamakzie.
Vb

When testing for dead pixels I have strange results :

1) There seems to be a lighter area on the top right (and top left).
http://home.scarlet.be/~kpelckma/IMG_2700b.jpg

2) When I test for pixel faults with a completely black screen, I see on the top side pixels with all sorts of red, green and blue colors.
http://home.scarlet.be/~kpelckma/IMG_2709c.jpg

I have no experience whatsoever with testing for bad pixels, but if I understand it correctly, the red, green and blue pixels are not a good sign... Testing with a completely white background reveals no failing pixels.

Never read anything about those white areas though.

Should I send this monitor back to be replaced ?

Thanks for your comments !

Kristof

Just got 3rd piece of L2335 from hp and it still does NOT have ZOOM with s-video or (my dvd has only progressive) component.
hp's support still claims that firmwares have been updated and there is zoom, this is getting surreal...
Next time I won't use this fancy on-site swap, but insist to go to hp's just to show them what is real and what doesn't exsist.
Sn's of my pieces have been CNP412z0qd, CNP414z0hi & CNP414z0bs.
First made in March, others in April.

Well, HP really did send me a new f2304 with "new" firmware, and they have implemented a Zoom menu item for the Component Video and S-Video inputs. The aspect ratio is now correct, and a factory default, instead ot the Stretch-O-Vision setting of the past.

Also, HP has added a new "video subcarrier" filter for removing the "herringbone" interference you get when a Composite Video signal is connected (via their converter cable) to the S-Video input. There are still problems with this however.

Is it now a perfect monitor? Well, lets just say it is "better". I have now spent 3 weeks with it, and you can read all about it on my website. This new Report to HP can be found as the third link on the home page, after the Bulletin, at ( http://hpimperfect.home.att.net )

B. Thomas

Hmmmm I wonder if they will be helping us L2335 folks out! Thanks for your hard work TBryonT!

Kristof,

Are you using DVI? Looks like you have the sparklies. Those light areas are the backlight of your LCD.

Can someone help me decide between these two?

I would like a display primarily for my Apple Powerbook G4 Ti/DVI, but am also interested in using it as a TV (but could make do with a VCR as a tuner).

What does the F2304 have over an L2335+external speakers+external tuner?

I wonder about the tuners - will a US tuner work in China (does it have a Chinese compatibility mode)?

Note that I would need to bring it back to Beijing with me[1] so the smaller one has the advantage in that respect.

Max.

[1] Despite being made in China, they're not for sale here, as far as I can tell.

Originally posted by dwater
What does the F2304 have over an L2335+external speakers+external tuner?

Max

The f2304 has speakers and audio amplifiers (not particularly good, I don't use them) and a little more "style" (black and platinum blue trim). It can only tilt forward and backward on its base. The L2335's screen, without speakers, is narrower, thus can also pivot 90 degrees on a height-adjustable base -- though I can't imagine an "widescreen" used in "portrait" orientation!?.

Neither display has a tuner, just several selectable video input ports and PC input ports. The PC ports can also show the other video sources in a PIP window. f2304 has some problems showing Composite Video signals (like VCRs) since they must connect via the S-Video input port with an adapter cable. L2335 has separate Composite and S-Video input ports (I think?) -- but no one has indicated whether these work well or not on this forum (though I have asked).

As fas as Chinese video compatibility, I can't help you. Do they use 525-line
NTSC analog video, like North America and Japan? Or do they use 625-line PAL analog video, like most of the rest of the world? I believe that I read somewhere that both f2304 and L2335 can handle both NTSC and PAL video, but you had better check the manuals before buying.

Originally posted by TByronT
The f2304 has speakers and audio amplifiers (not particularly good, I don't use them)


OK, I think I can do without them then.

and a little more "style" (black and platinum blue trim).


Yes, I thought so too, though perhaps the style is more appropriate for a TV setting rather than a computer setting; so I think I can do without this too.

However, I do like the look of it with the extra width due to speakers.

It can only tilt forward and backward on its base. The L2335's screen, without speakers, is narrower, thus can also pivot 90 degrees on a height-adjustable base -- though I can't imagine an "widescreen" used in "portrait" orientation!?.


Initially an attractive capability, but, on reflection, I am fairly certain I would never use it.



Neither display has a tuner,


Oh :eek: there goes my primary argument for the F2304.

just several selectable video input ports and PC input ports. The PC ports can also show the other video sources in a PIP window. f2304 has some problems showing Composite Video signals (like VCRs) since they must connect via the S-Video input port with an adapter cable. L2335 has separate Composite and S-Video input ports (I think?) -- but no one has indicated whether these work well or not on this forum (though I have asked).


Sounds like the F2235 has the advantage there too.



As fas as Chinese video compatibility, I can't help you. Do they use 525-line
NTSC analog video, like North America and Japan? Or do they use 625-line PAL analog video, like most of the rest of the world? I believe that I read somewhere that both f2304 and L2335 can handle both NTSC and PAL video, but you had better check the manuals before buying. [/QUOTE]

Well, really, I was more concerned about the tuner - would it be able to tune to Chinese cable TV (or use an antenna) - but you say neither model has a tuner, so it is a moot point.

WRT video signals themselves, China uses both PAL and NTSC - mostly PAL, IMO - and, in my experience, all equipment can handle either signal. So, I don't have any worries there.

Though I *want* the F2335 coz it looks much more cool than the L2335, I think I'm gonna have to go with the L2335. It's the sensible choice (for me).

Thanks very much for your advice!

Max.

I got the L2335 about a month ago and it has S-Video, Component and Composite video inputs.

I am using the S-Video input with DirecTV Satellite SD and the monitor displays this well. You can put the pip screen anywhere on the screen you want and have 3 sizes to choose from. They are all small though. You can also go full screen if you choose.

I plugged the Satellite receiver audio output to my soundcard input for sound through my computer speakers since I usually do not need sount from the computer when I am using the Satellite and is great.

I think the monitor is terrific and I decided on this rather than the one with speakers since they were very weak and I personally think the L2335 looks better.

I have attached a pic of the monitor.

William,

anything new for us L2335 refugees?

Originally posted by Kamakzie
William,

anything new for us L2335 refugees?
About to send an e-mail now. Will post tomorrow.;)

Well, been watching this thread for a short while and watching prices of 20"- 23" monitors for 3-4 months & 23"-26" LCD TV's (Primarily DELL) for about 2 months now.

I originally wanted to replace my Dell 1901FP with the 2001FP but was waiting for price drop which recently occured (now $679).
However, in the meantime, I became very interested (read: "obsessed') with the larger size of widescreen 23/24" as I watch 99% of TV/HD/DVD on a HD PJ (VPL-HS20) with 110" screen and wanted a similarly larger computer monitor that I could maybe use to watch a few tv shows that do not require my full attention (autoweek, motorweek, Screensavers etc) via PIP as well as expand my computing and gaming experience with the wider screen.

Naturally, despite the rediculously low price of some of the 23" WXGA LCD TV's ($799 for the Dell W2300 at Dell outlet) I was concerned about lower resolution and have decided that the higher resolution is more important.

So, after spending the past few days heavily researching 23" LCD's with 1900x1200 resolution, <$2000 and at least 2 video inputs I narrowed it down to the following and thought it may help others if I posted the overview info:-


- Sony SDM-P234/B
(fast 16ms, 2 x HD-15, 1x DVI)
~ $1750
http://webobjects.cdw.com/staticimg/full/6/7/9403.jpg



- HP f2304
(fast 16ms, 1 x HD-15, 1x DVI, 1x component, 1x S-video, PIP)
~ $1735
http://webobjects.cdw.com/staticimg/full/6/3/4372.jpg



- HP L2335
(fast 16ms, 1 x HD-15, 1x DVI, 1x component, 1x S-video, 1x composite PIP, Portrait mode)
~ $1520
http://webobjects.cdw.com/staticimg/full/5/9/4455.jpg



- Philips 230W5VS
(fast 16ms, 1 x HD-15, 1x DVI, 1x component, 1x S-video, 1x composite, PIP, USB 2.0, 6-in-1 card reader)
~ $1800
http://webobjects.cdw.com/staticimg/full/6/5/1709.jpg


ALL:- 500:1 contrast, 176 viewing angle, 0.258 DP

So, please let me know if any errors in the above.
For $200 cheaper than any of the others the HP L2335 looks to be my choice on paper... any comments ?

Thanks for the helpful post, ukaussi. The specs and pics all in one place are especially convenient.

It's a shame they didn't include more inputs on the Sony - component is conspicuous in its absence.

-tony

It seems they may all be the same screen (made by LG ?) from what I have read and from the specs I added at the end of the post above.

Also, the L2335 appears to be the only one that can rotate for use in portrait mode.

Originally posted by ukaussi
Also, the L2335 appears to be the only one that can rotate for use in portrait mode.

Isn't there some kind of standard for monitor stands? Do they not all conform to this standard? If they do, then is it not possible to purchase a stand for any of them which will do portait mode?

Just curious...

Max.

Originally posted by dwater
Isn't there some kind of standard for monitor stands? Do they not all conform to this standard? If they do, then is it not possible to purchase a stand for any of them which will do portait mode?

Sorry, Max. There is no standard for monitor stands. Also, portrait mode requires PC software (named Pivot I believe) to support it anyway.

However, there is some kind of standard for how the stand is attached to the monitor. But, it is only used to mate with a standard "wall mount" kit used for mounting the monitor on the wall.

Most recent graphics cards, even the onboard Intel, have screen rotation capabilities nowadays. Not sure when they started though.

TByronT, you're correct. It is called Piviot, and it is software that comes with the L2335. It's quite nice, for all of the one time I've used it.
Vb

Originally posted by TByronT
Sorry, Max. There is no standard for monitor stands. Also, portrait mode requires PC software (named Pivot I believe) to support it anyway.

However, there is some kind of standard for how the stand is attached to the monitor. But, it is only used to mate with a standard "wall mount" kit used for mounting the monitor on the wall.

Yes, it is the VESA mount I am talking about, but (obviously) it isn't just used for wall mounting. Any kind of stand can be compliant with the standard.

Look at this lot :

http://www.ergotron.com/3_products/flat_panel/desktop.asp

Plenty of room for protrait mode I think.

When I look at some of them, I can't help but think, 'compliance'? :D

Max.

PS. Perhaps readers won't get that movie reference...
PPS. The display doesn't require any PC s/w if you aren't using a PC ;)

Just got today my fourth (4!) piece of L2335.

Still no ZOOM!

This was especially checked for having firmware update and was sent from Netherlands by special delivery.

Now what a hell they are messing up in hp?

Maybe there is no firmware update for L2335 only for F2304.

Dunno, I give up now...

L2335's three biggest problems:
1) No aspect ratio settings with analog video inputs

2) No overscan adjusting

3) No aspect ratio setting for PiP
(or maybe we should always use PiP for 4:3 and whole screen for 16:9 :-)

Does anybody know if there are any secret engineering setups in L2335?

Has anybody got a chance to compare head-on Samsung 243T with others
based on LG glass?

Samsung has longer response time which may be translating into video
artefacts visibility. In recent PC World evaluation video was the
marked as its weaker point. But other monitors were not definitely
better.

SDM-P234B is praised by some as the best of the LG origin.
Any comments on this?

Are you using DVI? Looks like you have the sparklies. Those light areas are the backlight of your LCD.

Yes, I'm using DVI input from a Sapphire Radeon 9600SE and the standard DVI cable that came with the L2335.

How do I avoid these sparklies ? Are the light areas from the backlight normal ? They seem bright to me...

Another thing that worries me is that my screen is garbled from time to time and then starts blinking. This occurs when you restart the computer (soft reset). Sometimes a hard reset solves the problem, sometimes not. It seems like the monitor looses sync on the signal or even distorts it. The AGP port on my motherboard (Asus P4P800-E Deluxe) might be causing the problems, so I'm going to do a firmware upgrade.

Thusfar nothing but problems with this monitor...

Kristof

ukaussi (or anyone else), does the L2335 have a contrast ratio of 500:1? I've seen conflicting reports - some sites list it at 500:1 and some at 350:1. Seems like a pretty big difference...

In real world use, has anyone compared brightness and CR of the L2335 to other screens side-by-side?

Thanks.

-tony

Originally posted by irkuck
Has anybody got a chance to compare head-on Samsung 243T with others
based on LG glass?

Samsung has longer response time which may be translating into video
artefacts visibility. In recent PC World evaluation video was the
marked as its weaker point. But other monitors were not definitely
better.

SDM-P234B is praised by some as the best of the LG origin.
Any comments on this?

I've had my 240T for about 9 months now and have become very familiar with what to look for.

Using DVI @ 1920x1200 with a 10x eyepiece I can see each letter I'm typing made up of single pixels in a row.

switch to analog (vga) at the same settings and each letter is 1.5 pixels wide. That is one black and one gray. This causes the perception of a blurred image spanning two full pixels. of course the brain adjusts after a few minutes usage.

Thats why I carry an eyepiece and have a close up look.

This would have to be a result of the in panel DAC being used in analog mode but not when using digital DVI and I say digital because I've heard you can split DVI into component and like isn't that back into analog?

Sharp new offering is the combination of monitor and HDTV:

Sharp Unveils 23-Inch 'IT-TV' HDTV Monitor (http://news.designtechnica.com/article5873.html)

New Sharp could look grail-shaped but for no DVI? Am I reading that correctly?

Plus it's only got 1366 x 768 resolution.

No thanks.

Originally posted by tbacos
Plus it's only got 1366 x 768 resolution.

No thanks.

Quite right. For drawing text we need all the pixels we can get. Video is an entirely different ballgame. No grail for anything less than 1920 by 1200.

Originally posted by ukaussi
- Sony SDM-P234/B
(fast 16ms, 2 x HD-15, 1x DVI)
~ $1750
http://webobjects.cdw.com/staticimg/full/6/7/9403.jpg



- HP f2304
(fast 16ms, 1 x HD-15, 1x DVI, 1x component, 1x S-video, PIP)
~ $1735
http://webobjects.cdw.com/staticimg/full/6/3/4372.jpg



- HP L2335
(fast 16ms, 1 x HD-15, 1x DVI, 1x component, 1x S-video, 1x composite PIP, Portrait mode)
~ $1520
http://webobjects.cdw.com/staticimg/full/5/9/4455.jpg



- Philips 230W5VS
(fast 16ms, 1 x HD-15, 1x DVI, 1x component, 1x S-video, 1x composite, PIP, USB 2.0, 6-in-1 card reader)
~ $1800
http://webobjects.cdw.com/staticimg/full/6/5/1709.jpg


ALL:- 500:1 contrast, 176 viewing angle, 0.258 DP


I'm thinking of one of the above as well and also the 24" Samsung. I have the SGI 17.3" 1600SW 1600x1024 LCD now. I was wondering for those of you that have experience with the 1600SW, are the 23" and 24" monitors as good in PQ? Thanks.

Ironically, DELL's 20" 4:3/1600x1200 - 2001FP is now down to $599 !

So you could get 2 for less than what I just paid for my HP.
Problem is you don't get the widescreen and can't play games on one screen like you can with the HP

William,

I take it you have heard nothing from your contact at HP?

It's so nice to find my way here! I've been looking into the crop of 1920x1200 LCD's (to alleviate excessive bulb usage on my FP PJ) and have winnowed it down to the L2335 and the Sony SDM-P234/B.

The HP certainly has a sweet spot with the portrait mode, but the problems listed here are disconcerting. If it's true that both of these monitors are using the LG panel, then why is there any variance between effective res (EDIT: clarity, not res)? Is it drivers? Subsidiary (non-LG) hardware?

I found this review on the Sony (http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=sony23wide&page=1), albeit on a sales site. It looks promising. I especially like the minimalistic look and "disappearing" adjustment menu.

You may wonder why I'm looking at such trivial features. Ahhh, that's the rub!

Since I'm running all of my sources via my HTPC (supported by my home theater sound), I won't be using the other video inputs (just DVI and/or VGA) and don't need speakers. The 16:10 aspect problem shouldn't affect me on video feeds since I run everything through ffdshow. If I set the monitor res to 1920x1200 and set ffdshow to 1920x1080, I should get the requisite black bars above and below the picture. This should allow the native res to be maintained and achieve 1:1 pixel mapping.

Unfortunately, all this is academic to me since I don't have either one of these monitors. Has anyone tried what I describe with the HP? While it doesn't appear that anyone here has the Sony, has anyone seen both? Will my setup effectively alleviate any of the problems you mention with the HP?

Thanks for the help...

i have heard they are quite similar, but the HP is a little brighter. the sony is good but usually needs more calibration from OOB settings to get really good. I have heard the HP needs some settings changes as well. Also i read a 30 page article on the different types of LCD, i forgot where i saw the link but it was quite interesting there are three main types TN, ISP, and MVA (PVA is new one) lg/philips panel (sony, hp, philips, apple) are TN. Samung is MVA. the difference is the TN usually have better response time over the whole gray scale ( from balck to white and from gray to gray). the samsung has better color reproduction and contrast ratio with better shadow detail, but generally have slower response time. Even if they have the same posted response time the MVA slow down with gray to gray but are great from black to white. so if samsung said 25 ms then bl to wh may be 25 but gray to gray may be 40 while the TN say 25 they are generally 25 over most grades. it was very interesting article i am sorry i cannot find it. i will search and post it if i find it.

-rob

That'd be great, Rob. Thanks.

Anyone make a 30 inch or larger? I know apple got one, but it's 2560x1600, I'd like to have a big 1920x1080(1200) use as PC monitor.

If you are willing to go to 45", then Sharp LC-45 series does the job at 1920x1080. But it will cost you more than $6K.

Amir

Originally posted by robmarti@tampa
Samung is MVA. the difference is the TN usually have better response time over the whole gray scale ( from balck to white and from gray to gray). the samsung has better color reproduction and contrast ratio with better shadow detail, but generally have slower response time. Even if they have the same posted response time the MVA slow down with gray to gray but are great from black to white. so if samsung said 25 ms then bl to wh may be 25 but gray to gray may be 40 while the TN say 25 they are generally 25 over most grades. it was very interesting article i am sorry i cannot find it. i will search and post it if i find it.
-rob

In a report (http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=243t&page=1) about Samsung 243T this was stated:

"After testing a number of gaming titles, we were actually impressed with the refresh rate of the 243T, as most games showed absolutely no signs of ghosting. Fast motion games only showed very slight ghosting when performing high contrast color changes, but honestly, unless you were specifically looking for these signs, one would be hard pressed to spot them."

This sounds like ghosting problem is a ghost for those who look for ghosts.

Originally posted by irkuck
...<snip>...This sounds like ghosting problem is a ghost for those who look for ghosts.

That's a matter of opinion. I've read a couple of reviews on the 16ms response rate panels that indicated a ghosting problem. Most reviews said "no problem".

One would surmise that the same reviewer that found ghosting with the 16ms panel would find the 25ms totally unacceptable. On the other hand, the reviewer you quote probably would say the 16ms is "awesome".

Looks like we just have to test these for ourselves.

I never notice any ghosting with my HP L2335 and my HD receiver..

Unfortunately that has not been my experiene with its sister display. I notice fair amount of ghosting with my HP L2304 but you have to have the right material to see it. For me, the NBC olympics was the perfect set up as I had the LCD next to my CRT. On any camera pans, the LCD would soften while the CRT showed none.

Mind you, in everyday viewing, I have not noticed it at all. So I don't consider it a problem for typical TV viewing. But it is still there in this set, and other LCDs.

Amir

Pressrelease (i know October but have not seen before). Did a search on forum but nothing turned up.

Picture etc on http://www.hk.viewsonic.com/en/pr/show.php?id=10
---------------
ViewSonic VP231wb LCD, an Excellent Double A4 Size LCD for Designers
The Supremacy of Finland Design Concept, Amazing Visual Experience with Golden Aspect Ratio

19 October 2004

Hong Kong, Oct 19th, 2004 – ViewSonic Corporation, a worldwide Visual Technologies leader in new style of digital entertainment, is constantly introducing professional level products, quality and services with the purpose to create a new visual world for professionals. With this concept, ViewSonic will be introducing in Q4 an excellent model for the professional with double A4 size LCD, i.e. the VP231wb LCD. The model is using an artistic design concept of Finland based on human technologies which could enhance the working environment quality of designers. The ViewSonic VP231wb has a 23” widescreen and a golden aspect ratio of 16:10 that could display 2 sheets of A4 size scripts and design sketches and lead to a 60% increase in work efficiency. In addition, ViewSonic is providing the industry’s first 3-year warranty which includes free delivery service, labour charges and parts for creating more values to designers.
“The product standards and quality of ViewSonic professional series LCD has always been well-recognized by consumers. To ease the distress of designers staring at screen for long hours, ViewSonic introduces the 23” widescreen LCD as it could significantly increase work efficiency rate by 60%. Also, with its adjustable rotating screen and a pivot base which can swivel according to consumers’ preference is actually a form of human technology standard. The strengths of this product are to provide designers with perfect work environment and expectedly it will create an excitement for the industry. We are confident that ViewSonic will be positioned as the ultimate choice of designers.” said Mr Alan Chang, Vice President of Marketing & Sales, ViewSonic Asia Pacific.

The ViewSonic VP231wb LCD contains a 16:10 golden aspect ration and a 23” widescreen which could accommodate 2 sheets of A4 size scripts and design sketches to provide designers with comfort visual work environment.; a high resolution of 1920x1200 to maximize the color accuracy and clarity; a response time of 16 milliseconds to give the image production with ease; and five USB 2.0 ports for the use of connecting numerous digital devices such as a photocopier, scanner, digital camera and plug-and-play devices, in order for data and information to be transferred efficiency.

Also, the ViewSonic VP231wb LCD bears the 7 quality standards of the “Vetta Series”, which includes a stylish and modern outlook; an adjustable rotating screen and a pivot base which can swivel according to consumers’ preference and convenience to match the human technology standards; an ultra slim display panel and frame to give consumers a dimensional feel; the ClearMotivTM Technology which is functioned to speed up the response time; a “Digital Integrated Connector” that supports analog, DVI digital signal input, and multi-panels displays; PIP capable and a 1080p HDTV standard; a special ventilation design to prevent overheating problems and prolong the lifespan of the LCD.

The ViewSonic VP231wb will be launched in is Q4 and recommended at HK$16,980 with a 3-year warranty which includes free delivery service, labour charges and parts for consumers.
--------

I'm planning to replace my CRT with a WUXGA LCD (probably Samsung 243T) shortly after Christmas. I admire the features of the HP L2335 but my primary purpose is to use it as a computer display for graphic design work (colour accuracy), and it seems the Samsung is better suited to that. I'd probably get the Apple but I need more than one connector. Any other suggestions are welcome.

One of my complaints with CRTs is the high frequency audio. I'm wondering if anyone can report on whether or not this is a problem with the LCDs mentioned above.

Thanks for the forum. :}

monkt, you may want to hold out just a little longer. if you go to samsung website they are developing a new 24 inch panel with 16 ms response (currently 25ms) and with increased contrast and brightness. the site says production Q$, 04. Even if you dont get the new one, it should certainly drop current model pricing down.

-rob

Originally posted by monkt
I'm planning to replace my CRT with a WUXGA LCD (probably Samsung 243T) shortly after Christmas. I admire the features of the HP L2335 but my primary purpose is to use it as a computer display for graphic design work (colour accuracy), and it seems the Samsung is better suited to that.
Sorry, but why do you think the Samsung is better? I have the HP and I use for photo editing and it is very good for that (assuming you calibrate it just like a CRT).

As for hearing high frequency noise, the LCDs don't work on the same principal as CRTs. The only high-pitch noise source would be the inverter used for the backlight and they usually run at very high frequency so should not be audible. At least I have not heard anyone complaining about them.

Amir

The 243T has some of the most blatant off axis degradation I have ever seen.

My assumption that the Samsung has better colour accuracy is only based on hearsay; from the reviews I found, that is the assumption I drew. I am gladly corrected though. :} If the colour is just as good or better with the HP, I believe my only complaint would be with the slightly smaller size (23" vs. 24"; this may seem trivial, but I've been having trouble with my eyes recently, and I believe it has something to do with focussing closely for extended periods, and the larger the display, the further away it may be.)

I do intend to calibrate the display, which brings up another question: Which colorimeter (a photospectrometer exceeds my budget) is the best investment? I'm leaning toward the Spyder2 (not to be confused with the first version) or the MonacoOPTIX.

I have not compared the HP to Samsung either. I don't trust random computer magazine reviews though, when it comes to "color". They are using the layman analysis of looking at uncalibrated displays and drawing a conclusion. The performance of these LCD panels should be close.

Looking at the specs for the two, it looks like the Samsung is ever so slightly brighter (270nits versus 250) and one inch larger. For that, you pay 2 to 3 times the price of HP if my quick search is right!

As for calibration, I use the Spyder but there are others who like other units.

Amir

Does anyone know if any of these WUXGA displays are using LED backlights yet?

I've had my L2335 for 6 months now and still have this nagging issue with jitter on darker colors. I brought this up a while ago and someone mentioned upgrading video cards.

I now have an ATI Radeon 8500 with 128MB RAM and I still have the same problem. It's almost like seeing static only on black portions of the screen. It seems to be somewhat intermitten as well.

I tried using powerstrip for a while and it helped, but I had problems with powerstrip having multiple logins on my XP Pro setup.

I've tried switching DVI cables. Also tried with and without ATI's Catalyst drivers

Any other suggestions? I can't believe no one else is having this problem as another friend of mine also shares the same issue.

Thanks

Originally posted by mngtcon
I've had my L2335 for 6 months now and still have this nagging issue with jitter on darker colors. I brought this up a while ago and someone mentioned upgrading video cards.


I just got an L2335 and I have something similar going on. I notice it especially on the colors in avsforum. It's like random little lines of pixels changing colors. I'm currently using a Radeon 7500 w/ latest ATI drivers. Screen res. is 1920x1200 at 60Hz. I was thinking a new card might do the trick but it sounds like you tried that and are still having problems. I'll check over at arstechnica and see if anyone knows what causes this.
I've also noticed it doesn't do this on a pure black desktop. I just did a screen capture and pasted that into Photoshop. The flickering was still going on in Firefox but not in Photoshop, which had the same exact colors. Weird. It seems to be limited to browsers as I loaded this page in IE and saw the same artifacting. I tried windows media player and paused it various times during a movie and saw no artifacting there either.
mngtcon, I'd be interested to hear if it's limited to browsers for you too.

For as long as I've followed this forum and been in the market for these displays, I can't believe I haven't asked this newbie Q before: How will my laptop's 1024 x 768 display look on one of these 1920 x 1200 babies? I guess I'm destined for unused black space, but can I position my desktop to one side like a window? Can the unused space be used for a second video input?

I'm a committed small laptop user, but like to dock into a larger display for desktop use. Should I just stick to displays with the same native resolution as the laptop?

randall,

My laptop will sync up to the resolution of whatever display I hook up to it. Yours probably will, too. That being said, most laptops would have trouble rendering 3d images at 1920x1200.

Which, brings up an interesting point. There are a lot of people on this thread complaining about problems trying run a WUXGA monitor with ANCIENT video cards!

People, if you're going to spend $1,500 on a display, for love of all that is holy, spend a couple hundred on a decent video card--or give your monitor to a home that will treat it right [like mine] and feed it a high quality signal ; )

Thanks Christopher. Let me further explore my situation with you and the group: I have a 12" laptop with a maximum resolution of 1024 x 768. I mainly use it with a 15" 1024 x 768 LCD display so everything is cool. Both are 4:3 aspect ratio.

If I upgrade to one of these 1920 x 1200 babies, I assume my desktop will be displayed in only a portion of the display? Do these displays allow me to upscale the image to take up more real estate – perhaps even to overscan the laptop's 4x3 image to fill the display horizontally at the expense of lost vertical image? The latter is something I never do on my large screen TV -- being a believer in OAR. Would doing so on these displays produce an unsatisfactory result and otherwise significantly diminish what these displays have to offer? If I were to play the upscale game, would it be better to do so on another 4x3 display – say a 19-20" 1600 x 1200? I really do want to upgrade from my 15 incher.

I cannot change the video card in my laptop, and replacing the laptop with something that is 1920 x 1200 native is not an option. I've long ago adopted small laptops as my only computer, and have forsaken desktop computers. I know resolutions are increasing on laptops too, but only going for the smaller ones will always keep me on the resolution trailing edge.

Sorry if this is OT, and please direct me to a better thread if one exists.

Randall, your laptop SCREEN has a native resolution. Your laptop video card does not. Do you know how to adjust the display settings?

Try hooking it up to any other display of SXGA or highter resolution and you'll see.

Thanks Christopher! Your guidance is helping to sort out my options. I don't have other displays to hook up to at this time, but maybe my video card info will help: a low-end NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 witn 32MB of memory. From NVIDIA's site I've copied some of the specifications:

DISPLAY PIPELINE WITH FULL NVIEW CAPABILITIES
*Dual RAMDACs (up to 400 MHz) for display resolutions up to and including 2048x1536@85Hz
*Integrated NTSC/PAL TV encoder support resolutions up to 1024x768 without the need for panning with built-in Macrovision copy protection
*DVD and HDTV-ready MPEG-2 decoding up to 1920x1080i resolutions
*DVI support for compatibility with next generation flat panel displays with resolutions up to and including 1600x1200

I guess the last line is the kicker. So my options would appear to be: 1) Limit myself to a 1600x1200 display. 2) Or go for 1920x1200 now, use only a portion of the real estate with the computer, more fully utilize it when viewing TV/DVD video, and wait for my next laptop with a better video card. Any further advice?

Option #3 Get a REAL computer. For under a $1000 you can build a Shuttle that would be as transportable as a laptop and be dramatically faster.

Option #4 Get a better laptop. For under $2000 you can get a laptop with a 128mb videocard.

Option #5 Take your laptop to a store and try to hook it up to a WUXGA monitor. Maybe it will work.

Found this in my laptop specs: "supports up to 1024 by 768 pixels on the built-in display and up to 2048 by 1536 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors." One more reason why I love my 12" 4.5 lb Apple PowerBook. From getting my work done on a fold-down tray to wireless in Starbucks. Now I get to match it up with one of these big bad displays at home. Happy Holidays!

Originally posted by randall
Thanks Christopher! Your guidance is helping to sort out my options. I don't have other displays to hook up to at this time, but maybe my video card info will help: a low-end NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 witn 32MB of memory. From NVIDIA's site I've copied some of the specifications:

DISPLAY PIPELINE WITH FULL NVIEW CAPABILITIES
*Dual RAMDACs (up to 400 MHz) for display resolutions up to and including 2048x1536@85Hz
*Integrated NTSC/PAL TV encoder support resolutions up to 1024x768 without the need for panning with built-in Macrovision copy protection
*DVD and HDTV-ready MPEG-2 decoding up to 1920x1080i resolutions
*DVI support for compatibility with next generation flat panel displays with resolutions up to and including 1600x1200

I guess the last line is the kicker. So my options would appear to be: 1) Limit myself to a 1600x1200 display. 2) Or go for 1920x1200 now, use only a portion of the real estate with the computer, more fully utilize it when viewing TV/DVD video, and wait for my next laptop with a better video card. Any further advice?


If you connect using the VGA connector from your laptop then the specs you show indicate you can have up to 2048x1536@85Hz

To get back to the main topic, does anyone have an update on the L2335 problem resolutions?

I've noticed the Sony price is creeping down to a reasonable level. Are there any newly-released 1920x1200 displays of note?

My problem with the Sony panel is that it takes 3 seconds for the monitor to turn on after pressing the button. Viewsonic will be releasing their 23" monitor in a few weeks. I think you should wait and see what it'll be like.

Originally posted by E Jackson
To get back to the main topic, does anyone have an update on the L2335 problem resolutions?

I've noticed the Sony price is creeping down to a reasonable level. Are there any newly-released 1920x1200 displays of note?

William are you still out there???? :D

Originally posted by Sgt_Strider
My problem with the Sony panel is that it takes 3 seconds for the monitor to turn on after pressing the button.

I could live with that.


Originally posted by Sgt_Strider
Viewsonic will be releasing their 23" monitor in a few weeks. I think you should wait and see what it'll be like.

I'm patient. Something tells me the Viewsonic won't be cheap, though.

I started this thread trying to get full information on the 1920x1200 monitors and, after reading opinions, evaluations and reviews here and from other sources, decided to go ahead. Based on all the informed knowledge I acquired the Samsung 243T and here I can report my firsthand user experience.

I am using the 243T in the computer monitor mode at the native 1920x1200 resolution via DVI to display both standard computer stuff and digital video including HD. My impressions can be summarized as follows:

- operation absolutely without problems

- no ghosting with video including HD

- very good color rendering, natural and warm colors, e.g. very good
human skin, very enjoyable video

- good contrast and brightness can be set

Thus, this is top LCD at the current state of the technology. But this is LCD so the monitor has some standard LCD problems:

- black level is the weakest point, it is especially evident when watching
video in darkened room.

- nonuniformity of backlight can be seen when the screen is dark. However,
this is mostly due to the backlight level depending on the viewing angle.
Sitting close at the darkened screen one can see increased level of backlight
in the corners.

- best colors and contrast are when looking straight, at bigger angles
they become washed out.

These problems are in practice masked by the positive features so
all in all this is top class monitor, especially for the 1080i HD video via DVI input.

One small fleck on my piece: in my monitor all pixels are prefect except
one in which one of the three subpixels is stuck at blue. This is no problem
in standard computer applications as the two other subpixels are OK so
resulting color mixture hides the problem. In consequence such pixel is
considered good by the sellers. However, in video applications
where there are many blacks, this single blue subpixel is amazingly well
visible on dark background, and quite annoying. Thus, for video applications all pixels and subpixels should be prefect and the best way to go would be to
get monitor in which all pixels AND all subpixels are good.

A note about the system I use with the 243T since it is quite innovative on
its own. The idea is to make green computer with highest processing power/consumed power ratio and minimal noise.

Such machine can be now realized using new motherboards working with
Pentium M processor from laptops. I am using the new motherboard from Aopen (http://club.aopen.com.tw/news/News_ShowAnswer.aspx?RecNo=6487&Language=English).
Pentium M processor is amazingly efficient, it uses almost five times
less electric power than the corresponding Pentium 4 processor. The
2 GHz Pentium M can be easily overclocked to 2.3-2.4 GHz and it is
then almost equivalent to 3.8 GHz Pentium 4 in gaming applications! (http://www.gamepc.com/labs/view_content.asp?id=dothandesktop&page=1). I use the Aopen
motherboard, Pentium M processor overclocked to 2.3 GHz and Radeon
9600 Pro graphics board which has also much lower power consumption
than its bigger cousins while providing 2/3 of their power. In effect,
I see my system loaded below 50% when decoding the 1080i video in
software using the VLC player. In addition the system equiped with fanless
power supply has only one very small fan inside case and it is practically
noiseless.

Great review, irkuck! In your search, did you see any of the other monitors?

By the way, wouldn't it be cool to have an actual shootout of these babies? Considering the price tag on these, I'd love to see them side-by-side!

So when is Samsung releasing the successor to the 243T?

I wasn't sure where to post my question so since this thread focuses mainly on the 2335, I thought I would ask here.

Here is what I plan on doing:

Get the L2335, get a TV tuner of some sort, and I already have the Dish Network 811 HD Receiver (which can get TNT-HD, etc) and can also receive OTA HD locals via an antenna hookup conected to the back of the Dish receiver.

My question is straightforward (I hope):

Can I connect the receiver to the TV Tuner card, and then output to the 2335 and receive HD programming (including the OTA's and the Dish HD content)?

As a sidenote, I do realize I will need to use the Dish remote to control the signal on the 2335 monitor, and have no probems with that.

Anyway, any input very much appreciated and if anyone has any suggestions for a TV Tuner card, I am all ears.

Thanks in advance,

-Jeff

You don't need a TV tuner card in the PC. You don't even need the PC. In fact there's no way to use it to connect the satellite signal.

You connect the satellite receiver to a component input on the 2335. However since the 2335 is 15:10 rather than 16:10, you will get a vertically stretched picture. You can't connect to the DVI input of the 2335 since it doesn't support HDCP.

Whoa. So I can't even connect the satellite receiver to the tv tuner card and then see the programming on the monitor at all?

I thought that would at the very least work okay.

This stuff is so confusing :(.

Thanks,

-Jeff

I just saw the brand new Samsung 242MP at CES. It was driven by a computer but it had a really nice image.

Here is the announcement (http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20050105_0000089667). Note the stated high contrast ratio (1000:1) and 500 cd2/m brightness.

I hope the price that I saw in Mac Central of $4400 is wrong. Otherwise, the exta 1" over the HP is going to cost you almost twice as much!

I will try to get one to test....

Amir

I just wanted to chime in that I got an HP 2335. Wow! It's amazing. I remember when my 19" lcd used to look big.

I'm a gamer so I've ordered a Radeon X800XT to run it, but my 9800pro seems to do quite well. It's choppy, but playable. On the Counter-Strike: Source Video Stress I only went down from 54fps to 44 fps with new monitor. HL2 and and Far Cry look astounding in hi-rez widescreen. It's a very cinematic experience.

It comes with some software for turning the image sideways, because the monitor has a portrait mode, which is quite handy. I did not install it because the ATI Catalyst Control Center will rotate the display. I was able to get Counterstrike to run in portrait mode, which was interesting...

The coolest thing about it is just being able to multitask. Right now I am checking my email, surfing AVS, ripping CDs and playing chess at the same time.

I was a cheapskate and bought a refurb. It probably wasn't a good idea, as there are about 15 stuck pixels. I can only see them when the screen is black. Presumably, it is still under warranty, so maybe I'll try to get another one. I'm curious, does anybody have NO stuck pixels?

HDTV is simply gorgeous through component. I pushed a bunch of buttons and was able to get the aspect correct, but the sides of the image chopped off a little. I actually prefer this mode to have black bars on the top and bottom (which I couldn't get it to do).

Originally posted by chris5977
HDTV is simply gorgeous through component. I pushed a bunch of buttons and was able to get the aspect correct, but the sides of the image chopped off a little. I actually prefer this mode to have black bars on the top and bottom (which I couldn't get it to do). Chris, if you don't mind me asking, how do you have HDTV connected to your monitor? Satellite HD, OTA HD, using an external tuner, etc. Thanks!

I drive HDTV into HP set using an LG ATSC tuner+DVD box and a Media Center PC. The former is through VGA connection, the latter through DVI.

Amir

Comcast HD cable. If HP is smart they will add an HDMI to the next generation of this monitor.

Congratulate me. I just read all 44 pages of posts regarding this monitor and my brain hurts.

Obviously the questions of the day are:

1) Is William still around since he was dealing with HP directly? And has he heard anymore about the 2335 and a possible firmware fix?

2) Does HP plan to do something similar to the 2335 that they did for B. Thomas and his f2304.

I guess if they don't/haven't fixed the 2335, I'll go with the 2304 to get rid of the 'stretch effect'.

Thanks all......

I just hate to see this thread die. How is everyone's 2335 doing and has anyone heard of anything similar now that CES wrapped up? A 23" 19X12 with true HD capabilities has to be right around the corner doesn't it?

Originally posted by jdsabin1
I just hate to see this thread die. How is everyone's 2335 doing and has anyone heard of anything similar now that CES wrapped up? A 23" 19X12 with true HD capabilities has to be right around the corner doesn't it?

My L2335 is doing fine. I still love it.

So is mine. The PQ of this monitor is truely great.
Vb

Originally posted by amirm
I just saw the brand new Samsung 242MP at CES. It was driven by a computer but it had a really nice image. Here is the announcement (http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20050105_0000089667). Note the stated high contrast ratio (1000:1) and 500 cd2/m brightness.
I hope the price that I saw in Mac Central of $4400 is wrong. Otherwise, the exta 1" over the HP is going to cost you almost twice as much!
I will try to get one to test....
Amir

The 242MP has HD tuner. I guess there should be also coming 242T without the
tuner.

After working for some time with my 243T I think that 1920x1200 monitor is
a must for a desktop. Anything smaller provides so narrow viewpoint :D.

Originally posted by jdsabin1
How is everyone's 2335 doingI still like mine. I use it mainly for web browsing and gaming, and also for watching 1080i HDTV broadcasts at full resolution (1:1 pixel mapping). The main weakness in my opinion is the black levels, but the good brightness offsets it somewhat in terms of overall contrast. The overall clarity is excellent (of course) through DVI. With an average street price of $1,500 (or $1,599 direct from HP), the value is still unbeatable.

I just replaced my 9800 pro with a Radeon X800XT. It really makes the hp2335 shine. If you get this card be sure to use the Omega drivers. On CSSVST (Counter Strike Source Video Stress Test) I got 49 fps with stock drivers, 78 with Omega! This is with every setting cranked up as high as it will go at 1920x1200.

Chris,

Where did you find the X800 XT if you don't mind me asking? I was planning to run it with the X800 Pro but if the XT is going to get here within the next month or so I would rather have that instead.

------------

Too bad about the samsung price but I have to agree that at $1500-ish, even with some of the stretching probs, the l2335 is still the closest there is to convergence of PC monitor/HD monitor at a reasonable price.

I got my videocard used at craigslist.com. If there's a better place online to buy used stuff, I'd like to know about it!

Originally posted by nm88
... The main weakness in my opinion is the black levels ... I'll second that: That, and the lack of control of the scaler. I'm finally getting the hang of the scaler a bit so I don't have to keep doing a factory reset to watch NTSC. I watch HD through DVI using a myHD tuner at 1:1 and then switch to fill to aspect or screen for NTSC. I haven't ever calibrated the panel because of always having to do resets. I think I can finally get past that. I started tweaking the PQ a bit more tonight while watching "Carnivale" (C-Band digital SD) and just couldn't get the black level and contrast to a good level on darker scenes. The panel looks great at brighter scenes but really suffers at lower levels. I still love this display and use it equally as my HTPC monitor and as our main TV (the old 45" Mits SD RP just sits there turned off). It's been a great stop-gap HDTV until I finally install a large HD display system.

Having finally read through this entire thread, I note that this thread is predominantly about the HP L2335, and it's problems displaying correct 16:9 aspect ratio.

I have actually had my eye on the Philips 230W5, which at the moment appears to be only marginally more expensive than the HP L2335, but with a number of other features.

What I would really like to know is: Does the Philips 230W5 suffer from the same "true 16:9 aspect ratios diplay of component video sources", as the HP L2335? Or, does the Philips correct display the 16:9 component input with appropriate black bars?

Also be interested to know if the other documented niggles of the L2335 are resolved on the Philips version?

Unfortunately here in New Zealand, I have not been able to find a retailer with one on display for me to play with, or, a retailer who would offer a 7 day return option, without a hefty restocking fee!

I'm not prepared to spend this much money on a monitor, sight unseen!

Greg

Hi all...great info in this thread!

I am still debating on what will work best for me out of this round up....I am currently using a dual monitor setup with 2 17" LCD's. This gives me good realestate to work with...my real complaint is that DVD's (played mainly from my harddrive) are obviously a little small....so I am looking at replacing this setup with a 22-23" WS. I also have a HD STB currently with no HD tv in my office and no real way to get the feed to my small LCD's.

I wonder if someone could measure the actual screen size of the HP2335 so I can figure how many square inches I am giving up :) One feature I like with the dual setup is that I can very easily send windows from one monitor to the other with out resizing them etc....make it nice for quickly comparing doc's side by side. For those of you using the WS's for computer work...any tips or tricks to this issue you have found?

I just recently tried out the Syntax Olevia 27" LCD (which btw is only $1000 or so) and returned it....was very large...resolution was not at all good for me for computer work (although Windows does look awesome and razor clear on it). HD looked very good as did DVD's from the harddrive....but SD television was so bad I couldn't take watching even the news. Any reason to expect any of these wide screens would look any better for SD? I am hoping maybe the smaller screen size would help a little, however, I know that all LCD's (digital tv's for that matter) don't do so well with SD feeds....garbage in garbage out theory.

Btw..I really appreciated all the input from Paul and William....wheeeere have they gone?

i think someone from HP kidnapped William :D

Ya know Kamakzie, I think your right.
He's got to be 3 or 4 pages back by now.
I guess HP lost interest in him, or couldn't find a resolution (no pun intended) to his querys.
Vb

Originally posted by sbeswick
… I wonder if someone could measure the actual screen size of the HP2335 so I can figure how many square inches I am giving up :) The screen size on the HP L2335 is 12 1/4” H x 19 ½” W … 23” diagonal. One feature I like with the dual setup is that I can very easily send windows from one monitor to the other with out resizing them etc....make it nice for quickly comparing doc's side by side. For those of you using the WS's for computer work...any tips or tricks to this issue you have found? My other older system still runs on two CRTs … a 20” and a 17”. I bounce between my dual-CRT and HP L2335 systems all day and I don’t find much difference under Windows. Dragging files to Explorer works better on the older slower system using a dual monitor setup versus a single monitor because you can change the focus after “drop” and before the file transfer initiates. The fast HTPC system with the HP monitor is quick enough that the drag-and-drop delay isn’t a problem. I’ve loved using a dual-monitor setup for the last six years but the real estate on the L2335 does everything I want on my HTPC rig. Any reason to expect any of these wide screens would look any better for SD? I am hoping maybe the smaller screen size would help a little, however, I know that all LCD's (digital tv's for that matter) don't do so well with SD feeds....garbage in garbage out theory. The problem with SD on digital displays is the resolution and aspect ratio (when using a WS display) mis-match. You can watch SD at 1:1 on the LCD and it will be sharp yet small. The problem comes in when you try to scale SD to fit the larger screen resolutions of digital displays. The L2335 has a scaler built in but you’ll need a DVI connection in order to allow you to control it (at least with my firmware version). You can also use an external scaler that may give you better quality and control … for instance via video processing on your PC (e.g. FFDShow). SD isn’t necessarily garbage but it has a much lower resolution than HD. I get my SD from a 12’ satellite dish (C/Ku Band BUD) in both analog and digital formats. BUD is the best source for SD other than a crystal clear OTA reception. The point is that the weakness in SD on digital displays is due to the poor video processing and not due to “garbage in”.

Xortam,

Thanks so much for the information...very helpful. I am heading down today to take a look at the consumer model tho if I get it I am going for the 2335 since I don't really want the speakers. Since I really like my dual setup...I am half thinking about just keeping it and running the 2335 along with the 17's...will be a lot of fun to play around with the setup.

In my case, because of my office setup I will be seated only about 3-4 feet max from the screen. I just talked to a friend that has both the 2335 and the 37 Panny Plasma (ED version I think)....his opinion was that the Panny from about 10 - 12 feet is really incredible....he actually prefers to watch HD and DVD's from the 2335 :) I had to laugh...he said the Panny is great for impressing the neighbors.....but the 2335 is his baby.

Great Thread!

Just registered to the site, and have a few questions.

For those that own the L2335, if you had to make the decision again today, would you go ahead and purchase the L2335 or a different monitor?

If I understand correctly the major drawback is the stretching issue. I am trying to understand what the problem is, is it when you go to view HDTV in full screen mode the L2335 has problems doing this? Can someone elaborate, I will skim the last 20 pages or so to see if I can find the answer myself but if someone can help a brother out, it would be mucho appreciated.

Last question, I probably should know this, but what is SD?

Ok really last question, I live in nyc, is cable a good way of getting HDTV or is it far inferior to satellite in terms of quality?

TIA!!!

Any reason to choose the L2335 over the Apple 23"?

Gagnon,


Yes, it does stretch the screen vertically a small bit to fill the screen rather then add black bars. If I understood right, the 2304 has new firmware that somewhat fixed this issue, however, it has not been made available for the 2335 yet.

SD = Standard Defination as opposed to HD (High Defination).

From amazon.com review regarding the apple

First I love the look of this monitor, and using it at the default resolution of 1920 x 1200 is great.

However, anyone wanting to connect this monitor to a pc and play games should not purchase it. Although Apple states it is pc compatible, it is not fully integrated in ATI and NVidia drivers. Apple limits the resolutions the pc can display by including only a few resolution in its "EDID". The EDID is the info the monitor sends to the pc to tell it what kind it is and what resolution it will support. My current ATI driver works fine; it overrides the EDID and lets me have a variety of options to run all games at the many VESA approved lower resolutions and at full screen. However, with my new Nvida rig, the driver will only allow the resolutions that Apples EDID states are acceptable. Disaster.

This is not the case with other 23 LCDs (HP,Samsung,etc.) Its an issue only with Apple, and as of yet, Apple does not even want to admit that is a limited pc compatability. Please search pc and apple forums for this issue if you still plan to purchase. Just know what you are getting into. I didn't!

Are there any problems with the 2335 when viewing HDTV via a window (i.e. PIP), I can see myself using it more in this capacity while surfing the web.

The 242MP is going to cost $3,500 (from PCMag - I cannot post a link until I have more then 5 posts, haheh)

EGAD

Here you go:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1759,1749417,00.asp

Saw another quote on the MP2 for $5k jeebus.

Does the MP1 really cost close to $5k?

Looks like I am going with the L2335 since it is a fraction of the cost.

The hp 2335's handling of HD material is a non issue for me.

Yes, in one mode it will stretch the 16x9 material to fit the 16x10 space. This is unacceptable.

However, you can set the monitor to zoom in on 16x9 material and this looks GREAT! I actually prefer it to have black bars on the top and bottom since the screen is only 23". It only cuts about an inch of the left and right.

Originally posted by Gagnon
For those that own the L2335, if you had to make the decision again today, would you go ahead and purchase the L2335 or a different monitor?It's still the best deal in a widescreen LCD, IMO. You'll be hard pressed to even find another widescreen LCD for $1,500, let alone a good one.Originally posted by Gagnon
If I understand correctly the major drawback is the stretching issue. I am trying to understand what the problem is, is it when you go to view HDTV in full screen mode the L2335 has problems doing this?I think the problem some people are having is that a 16:9 image is stretching to the full 16:10 monitor size when using component inputs unless they adjust one of the parameters. I don't have this problem with the VGA or DVI inputs, however -- the images display correctly with black bars.

I just ordered a Dell refurb as well as the L2335

It will take about a week to arrive at my office.

This is the video card I got, I assume it will suffice:
256MB PCI Express x16 (DVI/VGA/TV-out) ATI Radeon X800 XT

Does anyone use this card, will I like it?

Now if I want to be able to watch HD in a separate window while I surf the web, do I need a Tuner card or something? What else do I need to look into getting so that I will have a hassle free setup, any software recommendations?

TIA

I agree with nm88...I think the 2335 is a great deal and an excellent monitor...I made the jump to a 30" LCD or I would have bought it.

Ok system and L2335 is ordered, I am getting the ATI X800 XT card, I assume I need a (tuner?) card to get the HD signal into my Media Center, right? What is recommended?

Looking at the L2335. As a long time Apple user, I love the Apple monitors, but admit the connectivity on the HP is hard to beat. I use a PC along with the Mac & would love to hook up my Voom sat receiver to the component input. Switching between the 3 would be very nice.

I did spend about 40 minutes with the Apple 30 today, and let's just say I was in awe of the size and look. The cost of admission is strong, but so is the experience. Amazing!

A gefen DVI switch box would solve the input problem with the Apple, but after a 450.00 card and 200-300 on a switch, it's in no mans land cost wise. Even then, I don't think I can scale HD in default rez on the 30.
For Freehand and Photoshop work, the 30 is ultimate.

Either way, the X800 card would be excellent for PC or Mac.

E

After researching tuner cards, looks like ATI makes a decent one with HDTV Wonder, any thoughts? Also they have a Theater 550 coming out, looks nice, I assume that would be a better option then the Wonder?

L2335 on the way via our friendly auction seller.
Making plans for an X800 card. Probably overkill for a single L2335,
but just right for driving 2 (or the HP and my existing 21 crt)

Thanks to all for the info in this thread. Good education for me.

E

Quick question on the L2335

I will have it connected to my dell via the DVI plug, can I have it simultaneously connected to my cable HD converter box via component plugs and then switch from the L2335 where to get it's signal from?

I would hate to have to unplug one and plug the other one in. Would I need to get some sort of DVI switch and figure out how I am going to get DVI from my cable fox?

I am confused - thanks.

Gagnon,

The L2335 has the following separate inputs:
DVI
VGA
component
S-video
composite

Don't waste your money on a DVI switch, as the monitor is not HDCP compliant.

HDCP=High Definition Content Protection. All cable boxes' DVI output either does have or will have HDCP.

thanks chris, so when I want to switch from cable to my dell, I can do this easily through a menu on the L2335?

Just press the INPUT button on the bottom of the bezel. Sorry, no remote!

Pulled up the manual for the L2335 from the HP site. There's three settings for Image Control\Custom Scaling: Fill to Screen, Fill to Aspect Ratio and One to One. I guess these settings deal with the stretching issue. Fill to Screen is self explanatory. What does Fill to Aspect Ratio and One to One give you?

Originally posted by jeffreyw1
Pulled up the manual for the L2335 from the HP site. There's three settings for Image Control\Custom Scaling: Fill to Screen, Fill to Aspect Ratio and One to One. I guess these settings deal with the stretching issue. Fill to Screen is self explanatory. What does Fill to Aspect Ratio and One to One give you?

I was actually playing with this the other day and one to one gives you direct 1:1 pixel mapping.
So if you show an 800x600 image on the screen it will only use 800x600 pixels and center it on the screen.

Fill to aspect ration means it will show a 4:3 image in 4:3 and won't stretch out the left and right sides.

Originally posted by jeffreyw1
Pulled up the manual for the L2335 from the HP site. There's three settings for Image Control\Custom Scaling: Fill to Screen, Fill to Aspect Ratio and One to One. I guess these settings deal with the stretching issue. Fill to Screen is self explanatory. What does Fill to Aspect Ratio and One to One give you?

I have an HP f2304 instead of the L2335 but their "basic" firmware are identical. Like the previous post, One-to-One maps pixel to pixel. It also turns off any video processing (scaling) that normally hides all scan lines. For full HDTV images (on DVI or Component video from a Satellite or OTA DTV receiver) you may see scan lines if you look closely -- particularly if there is any motion. The f2304 uses a lot of "overscan" with its Component video signal processing, which means One-to-One only shows the pixels that survive the overscaling. This causes extra black bars at top, bottom, left, and right in this mode.

Fill-to-Aspect-Ratio turns on full video processing (scaling) just like Fill-to-Screen, but the correct HDTV aspect ratio (16 X 9) is maintained, which causes about 5/8" black bars at the top and bottom of the native 16 X 10 screen. DVI and Component video signals are the same size in this mode, even though Component has thrown away quite a few pixels on all sides due to the overscanning. DVI shows the whole picture as transmitted.

The above discussion only applies to HDTV video sources. For PC video output (using Analog D-Sub input) the full 16 X 10 screen is used, and is Auto Adjusted, regardless of the picture mode -- if your video card (and Windows XP) can manage the full 1920 X 1200 pixels mode. However, the One-to-One mode does show tiny little 640 X 480 pixel picture during Windows boot up.

See my website for many more details about the f2304. The problem is that these mode changes are not always independent on each video source. The L2335 is similar to f2304, but I can't vouch for it since I don't have one. Others can comment. Later, HP added a Zoom mode to the f2304 for some input sources (Component and S-Video) which are also the PIP sources you can see when using the DVI or Analog-Dsub sources. This forum seems to be split on whether this Zoom feature ever worked for the L2335.

Byron Thomas

Dell (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/monitors/topics/en/monitor_feature?c=us&cs=RC956904&l=en&s=hied) will apparently have a 24" widescreen monitor (1920x1200) coming soon, with composite/S-Video/component inputs. I wonder how will this will stack up (no mention of HDCP support, but does mention a 12ms response time) and which glass they're using?

Originally posted by tenton
Dell (http://www1.us.dell.com/content/topics/topic.aspx/global/products/monitors/topics/en/monitor_feature?c=us&cs=RC956904&l=en&s=hied) will apparently have a 24" widescreen monitor (1920x1200) coming soon, with composite/S-Video/component inputs. I wonder how will this will stack up (no mention of HDCP support, but does mention a 12ms response time) and which glass they're using? Woh boy does this throw a wrench in my plans. I had planned to get the 2335 in a few weeks. I can wait a few more if this has merit. Wonder what pricepoint we're looking at?

And you're comment about HDCP support needs answered also.

I hate it when a new product looms so close to the horizon when you are all set to get something else.

Grrrrrrr.

Answered my own questions. Take a look at this guys and shoot holes in it for me would you? :)

-----

Round Rock, Texas, February 14, 2005

Dell, the worldwide leader in LCD monitor shipments1, is giving customers an expanded multimedia experience with the introduction of its largest and most fully-featured flat panel display.

The UltraSharpTM 2405FPW will be on sale for $1,199 in the Americas and Europe on March 1, 2005. The wide-screen monitor is ideal for graphics professionals, computing enthusiasts and gamers. The native resolution of 1920x1200 helps ensure detailed images are crisp and clear and typical response times of 12ms mean fast-moving content is displayed with minimal distortion.

The 24-inch display makes it easier and more affordable for customers to multitask by viewing spreadsheets and blueprints in their full sizes and positioning multiple applications or Web pages next to each other without losing content. It also reduces the need to scroll within large documents and toggle between application windows.

The 2405FPW includes a 9-in-1 memory card reader on the side of the panel for a convenient way to download files and photos. Four USB 2.0 ports make it easy to attach devices such as keyboards, secondary hard drives and printers without having to crawl under a desk to search for inputs on a computer system.

With S-Video, composite and component inputs, the 2405FPW can be hooked up to a video camera, gaming console, DVD player or cable box. Picture-in-picture (PIP) and picture-by-picture (PBP) modes, which can be enabled with the touch of a button, allow users to watch content from a video input and view their PC simultaneously, on a single display.

The 2405FPW features a height-adjustable stand, allowing the panel to swivel, tilt and pivot into portrait orientation. Its optional sound bar, which attaches to the bottom of the panel, is as space-saving as it is powerful, delivering 14 watts of audio output.

Technical specifications of the Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW include:

* Native Resolution: 1920 x 1200 (WUXGA+) @ 60Hz2
* Response Time (typical): 12ms grey-to-grey3, 16ms black-to-white
* Contrast Ratio: 1,000:1
* Brightness (typical): 500 cd/m²
* Aspect Ratio: 16:10
* Number of Colors: 16.7 Million
* Horizontal/Vertical Viewing Angle (typical): +/-89 degrees
* Lift distance: 3.5 inches
* Tilt angle: -5 to +20 degrees
* Swivel: 90 degrees (45 degrees left and right)
* Memory Card Formats Supported: CompactFlash I/II, Secure Digital (SD), Mini SD, MultiMedia Card, SmartMedia, Memory Stick, Memory Stick Pro, IBM Microdrive
* Inputs: Analog (VGA)/Digital (DVI)5/S-Video/Composite/Component
* Dimensions (HxWxD): 21.5" x 22.0" x 9.0"
* Weight: 29.1 lb.

The Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW is available today in parts of Asia and will be available on March 1, 2005 in the Americas and Europe. Additional information and specifications can also be found on March 1 at www.dell.com/monitors. Hi-resolution images are located at www.dell.com/photos.

Dell's 24" 2405FPW will surely bbe the cheapest. If one were to wait for the occasional 10% to 40% system web coupons, you can really get one of these panels for around $550 with free shipping. At this price point, not even the BenQ can touch it.

But not having DVI with HDCP compliancy is a big issue for those here who wants a smaller HDTV with true 1920x1080 resolution to be viewed at 2 to 3 feet.

I have been using a couple of HP L2335 23" panels since March 2004. Since July 2004, they have been connected to Scientific Atlanta 3250HD boxes with DVI outputs. Since I am pretty certain TWC has turned on HDCP in their system, I think HP L2335 panels have the chip for HDCP compatibility. As such, the cheapest DVI-HDCP 23" panel is the HP L2335, which can be had for $1399 these days.

Another thing with the Dell, why no remote control? I thought HP made a big mistake not having a remote with the L2335. Then HP screwed it up even more by not having one with the next generation F2304. Makes no sense.

The Dell 20" 2005FPW widescreen had illumination issues on the corners. You can read about these issues on dell.com community forums. As it looks right now, Dell's 24" is Samsung, but that may not mean Korean, could be Chinese like the L2335. As such, bad pixel count may be few but uneven corner brightness may be an issue.

24" 1920x1200 at $1,199. Incredible indeed.

Paul

Good points Paul.

Here is some more commentary from a review:

The Dell display also offers a wealth of connectivity options, including VGA, DVI, composite, component, and S-video connections. It also has integrated picture-in-picture (PiP) that works with any pair of inputs. The PiP lets you display a small window in one corner (user-selectable) or side-by-side windows. The addition of component inputs is welcome and makes the unit suitable as a small HDTV monitor. But the DVI input does not support HDCP content protection, so you can't use it with HDTV sources that require HDCP. Since this is primarily a desktop PC monitor, it also lacks HDMI connections.
-----------

Hmmm, not necessarily the best of news.

And additional specs ($1,199 and probably allowed to stack some Dell coupons means this thing could come in well under $1,000 right from the start).

----------------------------------
Faceplate coating: Antiglare with hard-coating 3H.
Backlight: 6 CCFLs U-type backlight.

Video input signals

Analog RGB: 0.7 Volts +/-5%, 75 ohm input impedance.
Digital DVI-D TMDS: 600mV for each differential line, 50 ohm input impedance.
S-video: Y input 1 volt(p-p), C input 0.286 volt(p-p), 75 ohm input impedance.
Composite: 1 volt(p-p), 75 ohm input impedance.
Component: Y, Pb, Pr are all 0.5~1volt(p-p), 75 ohm input impedance.
Synchronization input signals: Separate horizontal and vertical, 3.3V Cmos or 5V TTL level, positive or negative sync. SOG (Sync on green).

I would have to say that the Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW is the most amazing price bomb I've ever seen in the tech industry. There is a review here:

http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1764466,00.asp

The reviewers concluded that it was "almost too big" for gaming. Yeah right!

Does anybody want to buy an hp2335 for $1,199? Low miles...

FWIW,
It seems like to me, that not so many months ago someone was asking not to be a "guinea pig"...I can only wonder what the Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW has to bring. It's not to be rreleased in the Americas till 1 March 2005. I can state from experience that I RMA'ed my HP 2335. It had a dead pixel smack dab in the middle of the screen and when powered down it made such a capacitor whin, dogs three blocks down began to howl, not to mention how it made me sound! Anyhow, I'll be placing my order for the Dell....Yeah, Yeah, Yeah...we all suffer from "the next best thing" syndrome. I'll post my experiences...

And Dell commonly has 10%-off offers to boot.

Is anyone aware of an LCD monitor that 26-30 inches (besides the apple) and can do at least 1920 x 1200 with component inputs as well as DVI?

Doc,

I haven't even heard a rumor of a 30" 1080p. The closest thing to what you want is a 37" Westinghouse 1080p that is going to be offered at an insanely low price:

http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5619296-1.html

Thanks Chris, that is exactly what I was looking for. I was going to order the Dell 24 inch, but I really yearned for something larger. Yet the sharp 45 inch was a little large to sit in front of at my desk, though I have considered it. Hopefully the westinghouse is a decent monitor and looks good. I'm a bit skeptical they will hold to their Q2 release date though. Thanks!

http://home.nyc.rr.com/paulchiu/images/2004-10-24%20CRW_2629.jpg

Paul,

Is that the new Dell 1920x1200?

And how did you get the aspect ratio correct on the HP?

Thanks!

It's the Dell 2001FP at 1600x1200.

You need to connect the HP L2335 to a DVI device. Then the OSD selection menu will allow you to go to "Image Control", then select "Custom Scaling" submenu. Here, you can select "One to One".

This will lock the 1:1 for other types of inputs into the L2335; namely component video, S-video, analog DVI, and VGA. So, your DVD will show up in the middle of the 1920x1200 as something like 640x480 or 676x451, etc...

I have a 3250HD cable box connected to that L2335 on the right 24/7 running as a desk-top HDTV. From 2 feet, you cannot see any grain or dots. Pretty nice.

Paul




Originally posted by chris5977
Paul,

Is that the new Dell 1920x1200?

And how did you get the aspect ratio correct on the HP?

Thanks!

I see. Presumably, you are somehow able to get HDTV sans HDCP.

I have connected the 3250HD box through DVI to these LCD's since last April. Time Warner Cable told me last June that they were HDCP lived, but never did change my 3250HD boxes, so I am not sure if TWC's HDCP implementation is purely hardware or combination hardware/software.

A few posters in AVS have said that there LCD's stopped working with the 3250HD through DVI and a few power on off toggles forced a re-connect. Not in my case.

Paul

I know for sure that my Comcast box has HDCP through DVI. I'll experiment and report back.

Just a bit of personal experience. I am still trying to decide if I am keeping the Syntax Olevia 27" LCD-TV/monitor. It's only 1280x720@60hz, but the resolution isn't the problem. At a 41" viewing distance (primarily for PC use) it's simply too big.

If you play any first person shooter games (Half-Life, CounterStrike, UT2004, etc) you can't keep track of what at the side of the screen.

Don't get me wrong, it's a great screen and I love the size, but in practice it's too big. I'm almost ready to take it back to MC, get my grand back and buy the Dell 2005FPW since the wife would shoot me for paying the cost of the 2405FPW.

I think for a PC screen 23-24" at 40" viewing is the sweet spot, especially for gamers.

My only concern over either the 2005 or 2405 is that even on my old 21" (20" viewable) CRT I only ran at 1280x1024 (albeit at 125hz).

JMHO

I know for sure that my Comcast box has HDCP through DVI. I'll experiment and report back.

what box you got? 6208? if you have above 7.15 FW, then the DVI out should be hdcp.
The newest 64xx should be hdcp already.

Anyway, i used to play around with moto straight to my twin DELL 2005. Having tried all the possible connections with moto to DELL, i went back to 21" CRT for TV

The fact that DVI doesn't support HDCP and only allow brightness control over DVI, you can't use the DVI with most of the hd box these days. Most of sources like moto 6xxx doesn't have video control and you are down with no video adjustment on dvi despite the non-hdcp compliant bump you out after 5 seconds.

Tested with component>vga transcoder, didn't work. DEll 2005 is sync on green. All you need is component>VGA breakout cable. It doesn't resolve 720p from moto but 1080i is fine but again, you are down with no basic video adjustbale. It looks like shite. Bummer!

Played back with DVD over HTPC is another story, I have both the twin connected Nvidia 6800 and ATI 9800, tested with same material over ffdshow+zoomplayer, DVD looks equally good on both card. Not bad. This monitor really shines if you have hd transport file with VMR7 overlay ( VMR9 looks like shite on hd file, not recommanded). I swear i can sell tons of this monitor for normal TV usage to any blind end user if a proper material is demo with right adjustment. :D See, this monitor can sing out loud if only you have video control over the source. The built in video adjustment only work with s-video in, and few options that allow for dvi or VGA doesn't work even it says it does. I have 3 replacements over My first 2005, backlight and video control issues, you name it and it got it all... I stop asking for replacement after having tested 5 and kept 2 abd learning the fact that it's not made for normal TV viewing but PC. The control panel is a total joke, some works for a day and most never worked....

Anyway, after the unsuccess journey to get a PC monitor for occasional HDTV pleasure. I been waiting for DELL to come out the low price 1920x1200 with component in or perhaps DVI-HDCP.

However, the 2405 with price of $1200 is looking very promising even without the HDCP over DVI, no use even with hdcp if only brightness control is allowed...LOL. Unless you got the iscan or lumegen before the source. But with coupon and patient, it's can be purchased under 1k anyday now. I can't wait to try out the junkie DELL product again.

I read the spec document, but it doesn't mention anything about signal range on component in or color adjustment? or perhaps i missed it. Anyone own this puppy yet? please post back on component in with 1080i and 720p.

Dell 2405FPW Released Today (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/ProductDetail.aspx?sku=320-4221&c=us&l=en&cs=19&category_id=6198&first=true&page=productlisting.aspx)

Immediate 10% discount off the $1199 on the Dell home site + free shipping at the moment !

Yep, I'm getting the dell. The Syntax 27" is going back. The sync'ing problems are just too annoying and that it won't standby properly is a huge concern for me.

I recieved my hp 2335 a few days ago and I am amazed. This is the best money I have ever spent.

As for the scaling issue, I have had no problems. I'm using a Comcast DCT6200 HDTV box and to match the 1080i resolution was easy.

Menu button
Image Control
Custom Scaling

Then select:

Fill to aspect ratio or One to One

This will also allow you to match aspect ratio for 4:3 programming. Also remember that to change settings for Picture in Picture you have to have PiP active and then select these same menu settings.

According to recent review the new 23" Viewsonic beats the 24" Dell in PQ but not in $$.... (http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120529,00.asp)

Still feeling a little ill from paying $1500 for my HP :(

We are a Medium Business customer of Dell and they just offered us a month end special of 35% off all monitors !!

2 of the MIS guys got 2405FPW's for $780 each + tax :eek: :eek:

Hi,

Just wanted to comment about my HP L2335 and HP!

I bought mine from an individual on Ebay and registered it online with HP for the warranty.

My S-Video port went out when I was doing some testing on it, so I don't know if it was partially my fault or not?

But, I contacted HP Support via email about a replacement and did not know how this would go.

I received a reply that day to describe in detail what happened. I then proceeded to test the connection with a couple of different sources to no avail. I replied in detail to HP.

The next day, they sent me an email and said that yes, the S-Video port evidently had failed and they were mailing me a replacement monitor!

I did not know whether to believe this or not on just 2 emails but someone called me to confirm my shipping address and viola!! about 3-4 days later a new monitor was delivered to me via UPS.

All I had to do was repack my old monitor in the same box and attach the label they provided to return my old monitor to them. I called UPS and they picked up the old monitor the next day and there was no cost to me because HP paid for it and sent the label.

THIS IS GREAT SERVICE!! THE ABSOLUTE BEST I HAVE EVER RECEIVED!

Can you imagine it? 2 emails and new monitor shows up!!

I am very happy with my monitor and I don't know how anyone, Dell included could be better then the service I got!!

This is great piece of mind!

Originally posted by irkuck
According to recent review the new 23" Viewsonic beats the 24" Dell in PQ but not in $$.... (http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/article/0,aid,120529,00.asp)

Not enough to warrant twice the cost of what I paid for the 2405.

I think of it this way. I drive a 94 ImpalaSS. I can usually beat Rustangs, Camaro's, a poorly driven Vette and most imports/euro's. I paid $18G 6 years ago for my car. Could I buy a faster, newer car? Sure. But not for $18Gs let alone even-steven. Or even get one that can tow 5,000lbs, car 5 full size adults and luggage easily and get 25 highway.

So, just because the specs are better, doesn't mean it's a better deal (converse applies sometimes too).

Originally posted by stromm
Not enough to warrant twice the cost of what I paid for the 2405.

I think of it this way. I drive a 94 ImpalaSS. I can usually beat Rustangs, Camaro's, a poorly driven Vette and most imports/euro's. I paid $18G 6 years ago for my car. Could I buy a faster, newer car? Sure. But not for $18Gs let alone even-steven. Or even get one that can tow 5,000lbs, car 5 full size adults and luggage easily and get 25 highway.

So, just because the specs are better, doesn't mean it's a better deal (converse applies sometimes too).

When comparing monitors I agree.The better specs of Viewsonic do not warrant paying that much more for it, even if you have the money.

When comparing cars, I disagree. I worked for a Chevy/Audi/Porsche dealer so know the SS. I also worked for GM at HQ in Europe for 5 years in product development and know how they build cars.
Cars are mush more personal.
Some people see them as basic transportation and are happy with a 5yr old Kia.
Some, like yourself, prefer a muscle car that is relatively inexpensive, has loads of room and is fast in a straight line.
Other prefer a higher quality car with better ride, handling, reliabilty, crash worthiness etc and are prepared to pay more for that.

So "apples and oranges" as some say.

Originally posted by mrtbig
... The next day, they sent me an email and said that yes, the S-Video port evidently had failed and they were mailing me a replacement monitor! ... I too am in the process of receiving a new L2335 to replace my ten month old unit. There is a service advisory for the scaling issue on the older L2335s that allow for a replacement to upgrade the FW. I'm hoping this FW upgrade will allow for greater control of the scaler but I don't know if it will keep the setting per input. I'll find out soon enough as I was told I could receive it within one day of this notification. I paid $1700 for this monitor last June and I was eager to do so because it was the best price performer at that time and competed with monitors that cost $1000 more. We're continuing to see the prices drop rapidly on the monitors as the market progresses and manufacturing costs are reduced. I don't regret the expense that enabled me to use this monitor for the last ten months, and now I'm receiving a brand new unit to boot. HP honors a three year warranty on the L2335. What is the current competition offering?

Dell's 24" widescreen comes with a 3 year warranty, but I doubt they would
send a new one for a firmware upgrade. That's pretty good on HP's part.

Originally posted by locomo
Dell's 24" widescreen comes with a 3 year warranty, but I doubt they would
send a new one for a firmware upgrade. That's pretty good on HP's part. It looks like HP basically put themselves into that position because they don't provide their field service personnel with the tools they need to perform the upgrade. The level two tech said that the monitor would need to be sent into the manufacturer (didn't mention who that was) in order to perform a FW upgrade which required a special cable that they did not have. I bought a fairly early model which qualified for this upgrade and HP apparently decided it was best to simply replace those monitors. I would expect such service on a professional product though apparently that expectation isn't met as often these days.

Is the 3 year warranty standard? I can't find this on Dell's site.



Originally posted by locomo
Dell's 24" widescreen comes with a 3 year warranty, but I doubt they would
send a new one for a firmware upgrade. That's pretty good on HP's part.

Originally posted by stromm
So, just because the specs are better, doesn't mean it's a better deal (converse applies sometimes too).

In the report cited they found Viewsonic better not on specs but visually.
Question is if anybody had a chance for head-on comparison of Viewsonic
vs. Dell to confirm this.

I have Dell at work and Samsung 243T at home. Did not have stamina
yet to put both monitors with two computers side by side for head-on comparison. Supposedly the Dell glass is from Samsung but newer model with faster refresh and better blacks. I would say Dell has better blacks than 243T
but Dell's monitor black frame may contribute to the visual impression
in this respect since I have Samsung with silver frame.

In any case both Dell and 243T are very good so one wonders how much
better the Viewsonic may be.

Does anyone know of any 1920x1200 desktop monitors with component inputs that allow the adjustment of the RGB gain and RGB cutoff settings when using the component input? I've had five different monitors come across my desk in the past week and have come up snake eyes. Management's getting squirrelly, shipping is cursing my name, and the manufacturers are being their ever-so-unhelpful selves. :) Any help would be hugely appreciated.

I too am in the process of receiving a new L2335 to replace my ten month old unit. There is a service advisory for the scaling issue on the older L2335s that allow for a replacement to upgrade the FW.
Hi Xortam,
Can you provide more details on the service advisory? I can't find anything on HP's site about it. I bought my L2335 on ebay so maybe I need to register with HP to get the notice? Thanks.

yes please give some details on this deal with the L2335!!!!!!!!! :) DETAILS!!!!!!!! :D

First thanks to all the folks who have contributed a lot of great information on the L2335 to this thread. I just finished reading through all 30+ pages of this thread. :eek:

I have owned the L2335 for about 10 months now, and it has been a stellar performer as a pc monitor, and in my opinion, it still beats just about anything else out there in its class.

Recently I have become interested in using the screen to receive HDTV. I am curious if anyone has more information on this firmware update reported on by mrtbig, xortam, and others. Does new firmware correct for the aspect ratio issues on older dated L2335s over component video?

Second, considering the options for content, and the limitations of the L2335 over DVI (non-HDCP), do both DISH Network and DirecTv work over DVI --- have they fully instituted HDCP, or would I be able to use DVI (or DVI HDMI) to interface with the L2335? I recall one or two success stories in this thread using a HD Tivo over DirectTV. Can anyone confirm a working DVI link to either of the two satellite providers? Is it hardware dependent, are there some older non HDCP boxes that will work?

Paul is your 3250HD still working in NY? Here in Missouri we only have Charter and not sure about HDCP issues there. I am hoping this thread is still alive!

Thanks.

My solution to use this monitor as a TV was to drive it with a Media Center PC. Messing with the various inputs, even with HP's help in upgrading the firmware, was too much hassle. Some of the settings, e.g. composite, do not stay memorized and are lost with power off. And upsampling DVD players don't work due to lack of HDCP over DVI. But with a PC driving it essentially as a monitor, none of this matters. DVDs are scaled to full resolution. My HD tuner drives it great for that content. Etc.

In interest of fair reporting, I should say that I work for Microsoft :).

Amir

Hey amir,

As an insider - if one was to look at creating a media center using an MS solution, is there anything on the horizon worth waiting for or being aware of?

I have heard there will be an update to MCE2005 - but do not know much more than that. My objective is to acquire a NAS (ReadyNas-600) as the storage and then have thin clients to the TV accessing my stored media: DVD's, MAP3, Photos, security cams, etc.

I have yet to take the plunge because it seems we are not "there yet" - storage, clients, and primary MCE.

What thin clients (if any) and version of MCE do you recommend? Any caveats? Your advice and experience would be most appreciated - considering your position and love of AV.

TIA.

I looked at the Media Center Edition 2005 recently and it does have some rich features, but there seem to be 2 signicant limitations that apply to my situation.

First, I already have a new high-end pc running XP Pro SP2. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there is not an upgrade path to Media Center Edition from regular versions of XP. I don't want to buy a new pc, just to be able to watch TV on my L2335.

Second, Media Center Edition can only access over-the-air HDTV at this time.

I have owned the L2335 for about 10 months now, and it has been a stellar performer as a pc monitor, and in my opinion, it still beats just about anything else out there in its class.

Recently I have become interested in using the screen to receive HDTV. I am curious if anyone has more information on this firmware update reported on by mrtbig, xortam, and others. Does new firmware correct for the aspect ratio issues on older dated L2335s over component video?

I just went through the firmware issue and got a new monitor through HP. Tell them you would like to get your monitor replaced because of Service Advisory DV041008_SW01. That should tell them quickly without having to explain yourself much what you want. When I initially emailed them I said "scaling" issue and they had no idea what I meant. I guess I should of said aspect ratio but anyways once they got it straightened out it took 3 monitors before I got one that was 100% satisfactory to me. The first one had a bum DVI connector. The second had a neon green dead pixel smack dab in the middle of the screen and the 3rd was the charm. All of this is on HP's dime and you send back the old monitor in the box they send you the new one in. Attached is a picture of my new monitor in component mode. You may have to change the setting in your new monitor because it might stretch by default

Both of my L2335 still works with the 3250HD Time Warner Cable box and both can be used either through the component inputs or the DVI-D at 1920x1080 with proper bars.

Since both of my L2335 are circa 2004, no firmware updates have been made.

Paul

TIA, I can't really comment on future products. I hope you understand. You should really make your choice based on current capabilities. For me, even if there is a new MCE release, I can always use my current MCE as a very nice PC. It is not like dedicated CE equipment which has no other use if a better model comes out :).

Generically speaking, Windows Vista version of Media Center will be more capable but you have to wait a while to get that.

On thin clients, this is going to sound very pro-MS and I don't mean it to be :), but if you have the luxury of waiting, Xbox 360 would be a knock-out choice. It will have superb fidelity, able to even play HD content, and of course, gaming comes for the ride. If you can't wait, current solutions such as Linksys work fine too. I expect to see other nice remote nodes coming next year.

Amir

IFirst, I already have a new high-end pc running XP Pro SP2. Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought there is not an upgrade path to Media Center Edition from regular versions of XP. I don't want to buy a new pc, just to be able to watch TV on my L2335.

Second, Media Center Edition can only access over-the-air HDTV at this time.

Correct on both counts. Maybe you can sell your PC to someone else :).

Amir

Amir,

Thanks... and I understand your position on future products.

I currently have *cough cough* modded XBMC that works wonders. So, for me, that is somewhat of a preview as to what can and should be done if the correct design goals are given any considerations.

I was hoping to establish some formal best of breed approach if one was to start today or in the next 60 days...

If waiting till Nov. (hint hint??) is more appropriate, I can do that.

Acer to deliver 24-inch wide screen LCD monitors in October. Acer is set to begin launching its 24-inch wide screen LCD monitor (AL2416W) with a 6ms response time to the global market early in the fourth quarter, according to the company.
Set to be priced at NT$ 28,800 (US$871) in Taiwan, the new 6ms response time 24-inch widescreen model features a native resolution of 1920×1200, and a contrast ratio of 1000:1.

http://www.digitimes.com/displays/a20050921PR208

Originally posted 10 months ago -- now on the streets for under $1700. Any first reports?
I just saw the brand new Samsung 242MP at CES. It was driven by a computer but it had a really nice image.

Here is the announcement (http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20050105_0000089667). Note the stated high contrast ratio (1000:1) and 500 cd2/m brightness.

I hope the price that I saw in Mac Central of $4400 is wrong. Otherwise, the exta 1" over the HP is going to cost you almost twice as much!

I will try to get one to test....

Amir

And what about the Acer 24" ? I don't see it on their web site or elsewhere, just lots of announcements.

Originally posted 10 months ago -- now on the streets for under $1700. Any first reports?

10 months old??? Better forget this prehistoric stuff :D Only brand new Samsung 244T is now
worth talking about:

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20051018_0000201236

10 months old??? Better forget this prehistoric stuff :D Only brand new Samsung 244T is now
worth talking about:

http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20051018_0000201236

I agree -- the 244T looks like a major winner. Does not look like anyone has it yet however, even though the press release says it is "shipping".

The press release does not mention HDCP in the 244T. Do you really want to spend money now on a monitor that is not HDCP compliant given the Vista announcements? I don't. This may just be an oversight on Samsung's part, but to me that's an important bit of information on a new monitor.

The press release does not mention HDCP in the 244T. Do you really want to spend money now on a monitor that is not HDCP compliant given the Vista announcements? I don't. This may just be an oversight on Samsung's part, but to me that's an important bit of information on a new monitor.

The manual, which is about the only information that is available right now, does specify that it is HDCP compliant.

Thanks, marty. That is very good news.

Ok, just a quick note, picked up the Acer Al2416WD today, am writing this message on it as we speak. Will post an in depth review of the unit tommorow at some point.

Highs - good white to black response, can go very bright, dvi, vga, very nice contrast and blacks, very nice and accurate colors, nice pixel structure - with only faint traces of pixel shimmer (much improved over previous panels), good shadow and highlight detail at the same time, impressive low resolution scaling, WMVHD looks good, very good detail in photographs.

lows - poor black to white response, the lowest brightness to which color gammut is correct is still quite bright (think greater than 200cdm), my particular unit suffers from uneven brightness control (ie: left side changes with brightness control, but not the right side - unsure if this unit is defective - will hear back from acer tommorow, so more on that later), not 16x9.... --->>> this thing is 16x10.

Ok, just a quick note, picked up the Acer Al2416WD today, am writing this message on it as we speak. Will post an in depth review of the unit tommorow at some point.

Thanks for the info. Please let us know if you find anything else as you "kick the tires" on your new screen.
I'm thinking about this monitor for HTPC use. Anyone know how it will handle a 1080i signal over DVI? Will it accept such a signal and if so will it display 1 to 1 in a 1080x1920 letterbox or does it stretch things?
There seems to be far too little info out there on the North American version of this monitor. Even Acer's website doesn't say much. Best review I found thus far is for an earlier non-DVI incarnation of it:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/595-1/24-pouces-rapides-6-ms.html

Ok, just a quick note, picked up the Acer Al2416WD today, am writing this message on it as we speak. Will post an in depth review of the unit tommorow at some point.

Can you tell me if this monitor is HDCP compliant? I'm putting together a list of HDTV monitors, and want to include this information if I can find it. You can download my list here... (http://www.travelcommentary.com/chris/lcdcomparison2.xls)

Please let me know if I'm missing any monitors or information, or have any errors. Also the HDCP column is blank at this time, as I just started looking for the info (which is about impossible to find)

Finally, any feelings on whether or not this is going to be necessary. Seems so, but it's hard to stay on top of all the changes.

Well, I was planning on starting a new thread for this but this place looks good. JustinChase - your chart is very similar to mine altough much nicer :). I looked at 6 monitors so far, and I had 4 left to do. Once I was finished, I was planing on attaching my text file to the forum for everyone to read. You beat me to the punch. I don't know if you wanted to incorporate my info with yours.

Some info I couldn't find, so I left it blank. I'll add some comments and links later.

Morpheus_Rising,

I had to delete that last post of yours. It contained many links showing other than MSRP. Some of the links were alright. You can go ahead and repost the manufacturer links, but not any of the ones showing other than MSRP.

Thanks

The 4 models that I haven't looked at yet:

Philips 230W5BS
BenQ FP231W
Apple 23" Cinema HD
Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW

I didn't know about the Acer or the Sceptre models.

Comments:

Interestingly, both HP and LG have 21" / 20.1" LCD widescreen monitors (1680x1050). [HP F2105, LG M203W / LG M203WX].

LG has 3 other 23" widecreen montors - M2343 (1366x768), L2323AL (1280x768), L2300C (1366x768).

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the LG, I first went to their Global site which has the model LG L2320AL, then I went to the LG US and LG Can sites which both have the model LG L2320A instead. There is a couple of small differences between the 2 models.

When looking at the pictures, there is a small box beside the monitor. At first I thought it was a speaker, since it looks like one, then I figured it was probably an external power supply (power brick). Well it is, sort of, it's called "Media Station box" and it has all of the connector ports on it just like the AVC box from the Sharp 45" LCD.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Viewsonic model is the only other model that has a power brick (and the second one that is HDCP - the other is the Samsung 244T).

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the Samsung 244T, it's hard to find its true pixal response time. On the Samsung US site, it lists 6ms g-to-g and in another spot it is listed as 10ms g-to-g. On the Samsung Can site, it lists 25ms b-to-b. From this thread:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=966291

there's a debate about it. Some say it should be 16ms b-b not 25ms.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For the Dell model: Dell gets it's panel from Samsung and it's a 'stripped-down' version.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's pretty much all my info to date. So far, I'm dropping the Viewsonic and LG models because of the power brick and the Dell because the Samsung 244T is much better. The model that I like the best so far, is the Samsung 244T. It would probably take my another 2 weeks to look at the 4 other models (I'll probably look at the Acer and Sceptre models as well). :)

Is Apple 23" HDCP compliant? If not, mwsf may see an updated version.

The 4 models that I haven't looked at yet:

Philips 230W5BS
BenQ FP231W
Apple 23" Cinema HD
Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW

I didn't know about the Acer or the Sceptre models.
I think the Philips above is the same as the 230W5VS in the chart I have, but for europe; I think.

I added the BenQ to the chart (thanks for the heads-up)


Interestingly, both HP and LG have 21" / 20.1" LCD widescreen monitors (1680x1050). [HP F2105, LG M203W / LG M203WX].

LG has 3 other 23" widecreen montors - M2343 (1366x768), L2323AL (1280x768), L2300C (1366x768).
The 20/21 inchers are not 'true' Hi-Def. i.e. not 1920 x 1080 or 1200, so I ruled them out immediately, as I also did with the other widescreens you mentioned above. I am not considering non Hi-Def personally.

(and the second one that is HDCP - the other is the Samsung 244T).
Thanks for that info, I've updated the chart.

For the Samsung 244T, it's hard to find its true pixal response time. On the Samsung US site, it lists 6ms g-to-g and in another spot it is listed as 10ms g-to-g. On the Samsung Can site, it lists 25ms b-to-b.
I've tried to only list mfr stats, knowing they're probably all wrong, but I had to pick something.

(I'll probably look at the Acer and Sceptre models as well). :)
The Acer is brand new, and the Sceptre is apparently not available now, but may be in the future again, per Sceptre via email.

Thanks for the contributions. I've added your info to my chart, but have not looked up the (now) missing for the other monitors. I'll try to get to that tomorrow.

Morpheus_Rising,

I had to delete that last post of yours. It contained many links showing other than MSRP. Some of the links were alright. You can go ahead and repost the manufacturer links, but not any of the ones showing other than MSRP.

Thanks

Sorry about that. I bookmarked and then posted those links because they gave some extra information and some had user reviews. I didn't pay any attention to the prices listed. I'll repost the maufacturing links:


Viewsonic VP231WB:

http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktopdisplays/lcddisplays/proseries/vp231wb/

Sony SDM-P234/B:

http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/+INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=SDMP234%2fB&Dept=computers&CategoryName=cpu_Displays_FlatPanelLCDs_20%22

http://www.sonystyle.ca/commerce/servlet/ProductDetailDisplay?storeId=10001&langId=-1&catalogId=10001&productId=1000269&navigationPath=32009n32180n45021

Samsung 244T (Black):

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Multi_Function/LS24BRBABXAA.asp
http://www.samsung.com/ca/products/monitor/lcd_analog/ls24brbabxaa.asp

Samsung 244T (Silver):

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Multi_Function/LS24BRBASXAA.asp
http://www.samsung.com/ca/products/monitor/lcd_analog/ls24brbasxaa.asp

Samsung 243T (Black):

http://www.samsung.com/ca/products/monitor/lcd_digital/nb24bsab.asp

Samsung 243T (Silver):

http://www.samsung.com/ca/products/monitor/lcd_digital/nb24bsas.asp

HP L2335:

http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/monitors/tft/l2335/index.html
http://www.hp.ca/products/static/monitors/l2335/index.php

LG 2320A(L):

http://www.lge.com/prodmodeldetail.do?actType=search&page=1&modelCategoryId=060202&categoryId=060202&parentId=06&modelCodeDisplay=L2320AL&contentsTypeFlag=C&model=NOTHING&quality_spec_id=&quality_spec_value=&pagePerNum=50

http://us.lge.com/Product/proddetail.do?actCategory=computer&archivedYn=&actType=search&categoryId=1000000217&prodId=1000000098&parentId=0000000201&parent2levelId=0000000002&category_level=4&totalItem=4&currentPage=1&perPage=10

http://ca.lge.com/en/prodmodeldetail.do?actType=search&page=5&modelCategoryId=040102&categoryId=040102&parentId=0401&modelCodeDisplay=L2320A&modelNameLocal=&model=Select+a+model


Philips 230W5BS (/00):

http://www.consumer.philips.com/consumer/catalog/catalog.jsp?fhquery=fh_secondid%3D230w5bs_00_gb_consumer%26f h_location%3D%2F%2Fconsumer%2Fen_GB%2Fcategories%3Ccatalog_g b_consumer%2Fcategories%3Cmonitors_pc_peripherals_gr_gb_cons umer%2Fcategories%3Clcd_monitors_ca_gb_consumer%26&productId=230W5BS_00_GB_CONSUMER&activeCategory=LCD_MONITORS_CA_GB_CONSUMER&fredhopperpage=detail.jsp&language=en&country=GB&catalogType=CONSUMER&proxybuster=JYSZZRIKBMLNXJ0RMRCSHQNHKFSESI5P

Philips 230W5VS (/27):

http://catalogs.infocommiq.com/AVCAT/CTL1506/index.cfm/mlc_id/1506/SID/14939525/pin_id/1642/ProdID/329348/T3/601.htm

That's it so far (I just did the Philips today. I got the stats for the Philips, so I might update my chart text file and re-upload it.)

Trying to find information on the Philips model was strange. I first went to their Global site and they had no Monitor section (only LCD tv). I then went to the Philips US and Can sites and the samething. I then did a google search and found 2 Philips websites - one for the Philips 230W5BS and the one for the Philips 230W5VS. Comparing the stats, they look like the samething.

I did manage to find a review for the LG 232A:

http://www.techspot.com/

It explains the Media Station.

I did the BenQ FP231W today. I update my text chart with the Philips and the BenQ models but I have not uploaded the new file yet. I still have the last 4 models to do: Dell, Apple, Acer, and Sceptre. With the holidays, I don't know when I will be able to do those 4.

BenQ FP231W:

http://www.benq.us/Products/LCD/index.cfm?product=435
http://benq.ca/Products/LCD/index.cfm?product=435

The interesting thing is on the Canadian site, 2 items is different then the US site. On the US site, the viewing angle is listed as 176d H / 176d V and the luminance is listed as 250 cd/m2, but on the Canadian site they are listed as viewing angle 178d H / 178d V, and Luminance 280 cd/m2.

Today I was able to look up 2 more monitors:

Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=24053YR&category_id=4009
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=CADHS1&sku=320-4221&category_id=4009

Apple 23" Cinema:

http://www.apple.com/displays/

I typed up the new info and added it to my chart, however I have not posted the updated version yet. I still have 2 more monitors to do - Acer, and Sceptre. Once I finished those 2 monitors and type up that info, I will post the new version. I still think the Samsung 244T is the best one so far, however it's missing 2 features I like - PIP and PBP.

Ok, I'm finally finished. I did the Acer AL2416W and the Sceptre X23SV Naga and typed the info to my text chart.

Acer AL2416W:

http://global.acer.com/products/monitor/1_series.htm
http://us.acer.com/acerpanam/page4.do?dau22.oid=13843&UserCtxParam=0&GroupCtxParam=0&dctx1=25&CountryISOCtxParam=US&LanguageISOCtxParam=en&crc=61218241
http://www.acer.ca/acerpanam/page4.do?dau22.oid=13851&UserCtxParam=0&GroupCtxParam=0&dctx1=27&CountryISOCtxParam=CA&LanguageISOCtxParam=en&crc=1640414276

Sceptre X23SV Naga:

http://www.sceptre.com/Products/LCD/Specifications/spec_x23sv_naga.htm


Here is the updated text chart:

Checking the chart info, the best monitor is the Samsung 244T. The Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW is based on the Samsung 244T panel and it adds PIP and PBP. If Samsung were to add the PIP and PBP features as well as improve the pixel response time, it would be "the best" monitor. Hopefully Samsung will come out with the 245T model with these features.

Today I was able to look up 2 more monitors:

Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW:

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=24053YR&category_id=4009
http://accessories.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=ca&l=en&s=dhs&cs=CADHS1&sku=320-4221&category_id=4009




Can someone explain the difference between the 2 monitors here.. besides the price?
Thanks
Nate

Can someone explain the difference between the 2 monitors here.. besides the price?
Thanks
Nate

One is from the Dell US site, the other is the Dell Canada site.

I just read a review of the Samsung 244T (Silver version) today:

http://www.overclockersonline.com/index.php?page=articles&num=358

Going by the features of all the 23" - 24" 1920x1200 LCD monitors, I liked the Samsung 244T the best with only 2 features missing - PIP, and PBP. Now, after reading the review, I found out the 244T DOES have PIP! This is the more important feature of the 2, I can live without PBP. The only problem now is, after reading a couple of threads that talk about that no current video card is HDCP compliant, I hope Nvidia/Ati would release one this year.

It seems that 23" models using LG panel are 48-60Hz capable, while 24" models using samsung panel is limited to 60Hz refresh rate.

(The Acer review at pc world was that it was really not very good. dell was the the best "affordable" monitor. the only one that beat it was significantly more expensive, even more so street-price.)

https://www.pcworld.com/reviews/sfchart.asp?sort_dir=desc&typid=10&pg=1&sort=rating_date&vendor=0&subtype=0&att_filter833=0&att_filter834=1%3A1920+by+1200%3A0&hi_p=0

More importantly, are there any panels, shipping or announced, in the 27"-32" range that can do 1920x1080p? I wouldn't mind the limited pixel number (linux and dual-link is another interesting story), but would like some more space.

/iaw

More importantly, are there any panels, shipping or announced, in the 27"-32" range that can do 1920x1080p? I wouldn't mind the limited pixel number (linux and dual-link is another interesting story), but would like some more space.


Nothing officially announced yet but there is talk of a 27" Dell (2707) based on Samsung's LTM270M1 (http://www.samsung.com/Products/TFTLCD/Monitor/LTM270M1/LTM270M1.htm) panel.

Care to elaborate on the rumored 27" Dell? That would be ideal for me. I've gotten very used to the pixel pitch on my 19" monitor and wouldn't want to go back to something smaller... which pretty much EVERY other monitor is. LCD TVs obviously are larger but I still want to use it as a monitor so those are too big. Thanks.
-Matt

Care to elaborate on the rumored 27" Dell? That would be ideal for me. I've gotten very used to the pixel pitch on my 19" monitor and wouldn't want to go back to something smaller... which pretty much EVERY other monitor is. LCD TVs obviously are larger but I still want to use it as a monitor so those are too big. Thanks.
-Matt

Big is really relative. When I started using the 24" monitors at work and home they seemed gargantuan. Now they are barely enough size, even kinda smallish:D.

There is definitely a room for ultimately big stuff: Quad HD 3880x2400 pixs at 40"+ size. Hope Samsung is hearing the whisper :)

Big is really relative. When I started using the 24" monitors at work and home they seemed gargantuan. Now they are barely enough size, even kinda smallish:D.

There is definitely a room for ultimately big stuff: Quad HD 3880x2400 pixs at 40"+ size. Hope Samsung is hearing the whisper :)


Oh yeah irkuck...I agree!
I just upgraded to a 30" Apple Cinema.
I'm amazed at how much you can put up on this screen with the increase in realestate and the resolution is very impressive!
The con could be, that you need a gfx card with dual DVI capabilities.
At least a $300 proposition!

Has Dell come out with their 30" yet??
VB

Care to elaborate on the rumored 27" Dell? That would be ideal for me. I've gotten very used to the pixel pitch on my 19" monitor and wouldn't want to go back to something smaller... which pretty much EVERY other monitor is. LCD TVs obviously are larger but I still want to use it as a monitor so those are too big. Thanks.
-Matt

There is a brief mention of the 2707 on the widescreengamingforum (http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3240) 5 posts down.

I agree with you about the pixel pitch. I've used many different LCD's and 19" monitors (.29 pixel pitch) are perfect for my eyes, which is why I haven't bothered with larger LCD's since anything lower then .29 is too small. It's not that I have bad eye sight (I don't need glasses) it just doesn't feel comfortable. Maybe if XP's font scaling wasn't a complete joke it wouldn’t matter much. I've used Dell's 2405 and .27 is too small and the 30" with a pixel pitch of .25 is just microscopic. Until this 27" comes out 19" rules.

Oh yeah irkuck...I agree!
I just upgraded to a 30" Apple Cinema.
I'm amazed at how much you can put up on this screen with the increase in realestate and the resolution is very impressive!
The con could be, that you need a gfx card with dual DVI capabilities.
At least a $300 proposition!
VB

You are congratulated for having the real stuff. When the bigness effect will fade and the 30" will
feel kinda smallish then hopefully 40"+ QuadHD glass is shining in shops :D The dual DVI links are piece of cake comparing to those monster beauties :D

Saw this today:

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=1&id=1851&pg=4

Samsung has a new 24" LCD Professional monitor, the XC24 with a LED backlight with a wide color gamut. Doesn't state what the resolution is or how much it would cost.

Care to elaborate on the rumored 27" Dell? That would be ideal for me. I've gotten very used to the pixel pitch on my 19" monitor and wouldn't want to go back to something smaller... which pretty much EVERY other monitor is. LCD TVs obviously are larger but I still want to use it as a monitor so those are too big. Thanks.
-Matt

I would be very interested in something like this too.

I have read one article that reviews the LCD monitors that have HDCP:

http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_vista_hdcp_lcd_roundup/

I also have read 2 new reviews on the Samsung 244T:

http://www.bytesector.com/data/bs-article.asp?id=623

http://www.trustedreviews.com/article.aspx?art=2662

And one a bit older:

http://www.overclockersonline.com/index.php?page=articles&num=358

Any one running three or four of these 1920 x 1200 LCD displays off of one graphics card, or a pair of graphics cards ? I haven't seen one spec'd to do this yet, but maybe I am not looking in the right place.