Sounds like it has the capability to drive dual voice coiled subwoofers.

brickie

Sounds like it has the capability to drive dual voice coiled subwoofers.

brickie

Or it could be that I'm an idiot. The interal wires were coiled around each other and made it look like there were two channels. There isn't, it's just one channel internally. So I guess it just accepts stereo inputs and dumps both of them out a single channel. I'm just going to run my subwoofer output to one of the inputs and see what happens.

I am trying to wire up 8 shakers to a mono 250W subwoofer amp. I am trying to get the overall impedance down to 4ohms so that the amp can properly power all 8 speakers (150W @8ohm, 250W @ 4ohm). I currently have the speakers in a series/parallel combination to get 8ohms (see 1st diagram). I thought of a way to get the overall impedance down to 6 ohms (see 2nd diagram) but I don't know what the implications of this setup would be. Will the two speakers on top get too much power sent through them or would they get the same as the six? Thanks!

Diagram 1 (http://www.datasolinc.com/theater/CurrentDesign.png)
Diagram 2 (http://www.datasolinc.com/theater/Proposed6ohm.png)

Yes David, the power will be different to the top shakers compared with the bottom. If your amp can go down to 2 ohms, you could wires two sets of four parallel sets, in series. Otherwise, four parallel pairs, in series would get you 8 ohms, and I'd use that setup rather than an unbalanced 6 ohm setup.

Yes David, the power will be different to the top shakers compared with the bottom. If your amp can go down to 2 ohms, you could wires two sets of four parallel sets, in series. Otherwise, four parallel pairs, in series would get you 8 ohms, and I'd use that setup rather than an unbalanced 6 ohm setup.
OK, that's what I was afraid of. Thanks for the confirmation.

Dave

[QUOTE=MississippiMan]Well, all that sound, (...er, feels.) pretty correct.

Your Riser is a small one anyway. I'm sure your results come from both the resonant qualities that a "solid" 3/4' wood provides, as well as the "diaphram like" action of the unsupported surface area.

What really matters is that it's working, and you like it. You are at least one individulal I know who will not be a "under- acheiver" if you have any say so in the matter.

Here you go..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Home%20Theater%20Installations/8TactileArray.jpg

QUOTE]

MM,
When building a two tier riser are they actually separate risers or built as "one." I can't tell in this Pic.

MM,
When building a two tier riser are they actually separate risers or built as "one." I can't tell in this Pic.

The Smaller Riser is a seperate platform made from a 2" x 4" frame (4' x 8') and rests upon it's own 4" x 8" Blackboard Sheet. It does NOT connect with the larger, taller Platform, instead it has a 1/2" wide Gap that is there to accomodate the rolled edge of Carpeting that will be between the shorter Platform's topmost rear edge and the front side edge of the higher Platform.

Since it is so small, I used 3" long Coarse Threaded Screws at 10 locations around it's perimeter set at a 45 degree angle through the 2" x 4" lower edge of the perimeter frame and down through the Blackboard and into the the Sub Floor. After setting them in fairly tight, and evenly by way of using a specific Clutch setting on my Ryobi, I backed them out until I could 'just begin' to see the Platform rise equally to a point where the Blackboard was no longer compressed. This prevents any potential shifting, and gives the smaller plaform more rigidity overall, much akin to a much larger Platform whose mass would accomplish the same thing without any fasteners.

In your case, being that your placing the Plaform on top of Carpeted Concrete, I'd attach the Blackboard to the underside once the platform is framed, set it into place on top the Carpet/Padding, place 80 Lb Bags of Playground Sand around the perimeter edges, smootch them down until they lay flat under the topmost sdge, then intall your Tactiles onto the Top sheet as shown, placing it on top last.

Be sure to use 1- 5/8" Coarse Threadded Screws every 6" on all framing to attach the top sheet (NO GLUE !) Should you EVER have to effect a repair, you want potential disassembly to be reasonably easy from the Top downward.

Thanks.

zawrite. :cool:

I just installed a Clark Synthesis Silver in my queen-sized wood frame futon. This is powered by a 120W subwoofer plate amp from Parts Express that sits discretely under the futon. So far so good, I'm still trying to find right balance of level and frequency cutoff.

I am curious about isolating the futon from the floor. The futon is sitting on a carpeted floor (with pad) on concrete. None of the pre-made isolation couch feet (from Buttkicker, ect.) fit my futon's legs. The wooden futon legs/feet are approximately 1”x4”.

Does anyone have any experience in making their own isolation feet/material?
I’m thinking that the benefits of isolating the couch/chair are probably worth me looking into this.

Any ideas or advice on material?
Thanks!
Matt

Matt,

Here's what I did some time back on the ONLY Couch I ever elected to place a Tactile system in.

Take a couple of peices of 6" x 6" x 1/2" Birch Plywood for use as each leg's Isolator.
Screw then together with 4 - 1" Coarse Threadded screws in each corner
Using a rented or borrowed 5" Hole Saw, cut a hole in and just through the Top peice (centered, of course)

You now have 4 - 6" x 1" thick square peices , each with a 1/2 deep 5" round depression.
Trim the outside edge in whatever shape you see fit.

Take the peices apart and the using Elmer's Wood Glue, glue them togther and reinsert the screws to bind them. Wipe off with a damp rag the excess glue that squishes out.

Go to a Walmart and get 8 cheap, generic Mouse Pads ($.99 ea.)
Cut 4 to fit the Bottom of the Isolators, 4 to fit the top "Inside Circle". of the same.
Glue 'em in place.
Spray them to whatever color matches your decor.
Insert 'dried' Isolator assembly between the floor and bottom of the Furniture's leg. (.....obviously :rolleyes: )

It ain't a expensive isolator, and your Clark has enough oomph to make even a isolated application "jump" , but for normal, earthbound-type enjoyment, you'll be happy how this little project works.

If you can find any 3/8" to 1/2' Hard Rubber Sheets to substitute for the Mouse Pads, it can only help, not hurt. Sometimes small sheets can be found a Farm supply stores.
Further isolation can be acheived through the addition of another Layer on top the inset "Circle" and on the Bottom. All in all, the profile of such an extreame case will still be less than almost any isolator I know of.

Good luck. It will be interesting reading to see whatever else comes alond per your request, and a good thing to bookmark fer sure.

Matt,

Here's what I did some time back on the ONLY Couch I ever elected to place a Tactile system in.

Take a couple of peices of 6" x 6" x 1/2" Birch Plywood for use as each leg's Isolator.
Screw then together with 4 - 1" Coarse Threadded screws in each corner
Using a rented or borrowed 5" Hole Saw, cut a hole in and just through the Top peice (centered, of course)

You now have 4 - 6" x 1" thick square peices , each with a 1/2 deep 5" round depression.
Trim the outside edge in whatever shape you see fit.

Take the peices apart and the using Elmer's Wood Glue, glue them togther and reinsert the screws to bind them. Wipe off with a damp rag the excess glue that squishes out.

Go to a Walmart and get 8 cheap, generic Mouse Pads ($.99 ea.)
Cut 4 to fit the Bottom of the Isolators, 4 to fit the top "Inside Circle". of the same.
Glue 'em in place.
Spray them to whatever color matches your decor.
Insert 'dried' Isolator assembly between the floor and bottom of the Furniture's leg. (.....obviously :rolleyes: )

It ain't a expensive isolator, and your Clark has enough oomph to make even a isolated application "jump" , but for normal, earthbound-type enjoyment, you'll be happy how this little project works.

If you can find any 3/8" to 1/2' Hard Rubber Sheets to substitute for the Mouse Pads, it can only help, not hurt. Sometimes small sheets can be found a Farm supply stores.
Further isolation can be acheived through the addition of another Layer on top the inset "Circle" and on the Bottom. All in all, the profile of such an extreame case will still be less than almost any isolator I know of.

Good luck. It will be interesting reading to see whatever else comes alond per your request, and a good thing to bookmark fer sure.


Would love to see pictures of that. :)

Would love to see pictures of that. :)


Shoot, I didn't even own a digicam back in 1997. The application in question was one where the legs of the Couches and Chairs rested on Hardwood Flooring, and the areas surrounding were covered with Large Rugs.

Since much of the architecture around Memphis is Colonial, even Williamsburg in design, there are a lot of "Period Piece" style homes that have fireplaces everywhere, (...in the Midsouth, no less... :rolleyes: ) and a perponderence of wood floors.

Because of this, I had to come up with something to stop the chattering that came when the couch's structure reached a point where the excess energy being produced could not be absorbed. That energy had to find an outlet. Legs can be great conduits of resonance. (Rachel Hunter comes to mind....)

A telling aspect of this story is that upon the stated desire by the Client for me to go ahead and to do as I thought best, that resulted in my jerking the Transducers out of the Couch and two chairs, and putting them into the Floor across a straight line in front of the Couch's front edge. Much more realistic IMO for I did not feel as if I was getting a "Fleet" somewhere north of my "Feet" like I did with 8 Transducers attached to a long plywood plate that in turn covered the bottom of the 9' long couch. Later, they were replaced with actual "AURA Tactiles", the original 8, and a second 8 as well.

That involved essentially destroying the wood flooring, and upon the "pieces' being laid back into place, Carpet was finially laid down in that Theater Room.

More for the necessity of it that the Clients desire.

If ya don't experience it fer yurself, when listening to a really good "Tactiles in the Floor &/0r Riser" set-up, my telling all ya all what the LFE effects in the "Under Attack" scene in Master & Commander sounds like in DTS cannot do it, or people's reaction justice.

Ditto, and with even greater emphasis, as far as the Fusion Reactor getting kicked on the first time in Spiderman 2. Even I was startled. Everything else is just Gravy.

It's lamentable that many are 'forced' to go the "furniture " route, for whatever reasons that prevent then from doing so. Those who prefer the "Furniture" route can stop reading now so as not to get ruffled feathers.

After doing dozens of Tactile applications, and having listened to almost everyone who ever experienced an energetic platform riser, or sub floor application in comparision to a "Chair", I can very honestly, and with no small amount of conviction, state that all agreed that there was both no comparison as to the realisium , or the "believable" physical effect between the two. Furniture virtually always results in a severe roll off of the very frequencies that usher in dramatic, "catch your breath" responses by your guests, or the Wife, as preferred.

Floors, and properly constructed Risers simply have so much more mass and structural rigidity that they can absorb and hence reproduce the resonance of sub-60 hz frequencies accurately without oversaturating the area surrounding the unit, causing 'Howling" or non-sympathetic resonance.

Furniture people, to avoid this pitfall, and to assure yourself the best results, any, I repeat ANY structual strengthening that can be done, and any additional. "Up-Sizing" of the Plywood board used to mount the Tactile to, can only work toward creating an application that feels like a Bomb went off, but not necessasrily in the Lower GI tract.

That comes sometime afterward as the Pizza and Beer hit that locality...and no one civilized thinks that is worth listening to. :eek:

Well after reading your posts over the past couple of months, MM, I decided to go with the shakers in the riser for my 2nd row. My guess is that sometime in the next couple of weeks I'll start building the riser. However I don't think I can do it in the front row - unless you have a suggestion. My issue is the ceiling is relatively low - 80" from the subfloor (Dricore over concrete). I have some tall relatives (6'5") - putting some sort of riser for the 1st row may limit clearance. What would be the minimum riser height that you would recommend that could imcorporate shakers? The front row will have 3 recliner type clairs (Flexsteel Oslo), the rear (on an 8" riser) would be standard theater seats, probably 3 or 4.

Thanks,
Bob

Usually, a 2" x 4' framed Riser, in front of a 2" x 8" riser works well, but your right, an 80" cieling height is a tough handicap to overcome.

I have an idea how to reduce the 5 " hieght of the 2" x 4" riser down to 3 -1/2" high at the point the Chairs contact the Riser.
(3 - 1/2' + 3/4' Ply + Carpet/Padding is approx 5 ")

It involves using a "pedistal" approach where between each chair you build in a low Table or divider, and bridge the gap between each table with 2" x 4" laid down flat with the Plywood on top, The Tactiles would be located "in the bottom" of each Table.

A thought, nothing more, if your applications demands esthetical purity.

Can a 250w Parts Express sub amp drive 8 pro bass shakers? I will have four theater chairs and one couch on a riser. I plan on one for each chair and 4 for the couch. If this can be done, how do the shaker have to be wired?

If this can't be done, what would it take? I have read through this thread, albeit confused some/most of the time, and it appears that for 8 50 amp shakers I need a 400 watt amp. How does the wattage on normal receivers relate to the sub. For example, if a 5.1 receiver is 100 watts per channel does this mean that all 500 watts can be used for the sub if it's the only speaker attached to the receiver? Would the receiver need the capability of turning off unused ports? Any help will be appreciated. TIA

Can a 250w Parts Express sub amp drive 8 pro bass shakers?
Yes

I will have four theater chairs and one couch on a riser. I plan on one for each chair and 4 for the couch. If this can be done, how do the shaker have to be wired?

series-parallel ... best you can do to have them all shake equally is an 8 ohm load to the amplifier. No way to wire 8 shakers and get a 4 ohm load to present to an amplifier... therefore, the 250 watt amplifier is probably only rated for 180 watts into 8 ohms... divided equally between the shakers = 22 watts per shaker.
Fortunately, that should be more than enough to drive the shakers.

As has been said many time before, the pro-shakers are identical to the non-pro, but with fins on the outer surface so they can dissipate more heat (more power results in more heating) At power levels below 25 watts, the amount of shaking is equal... pro or non-pro. Since many use the non-pro and they shake plenty enough, you will be fine feeding 22 watts per and will probably turn it down and only use 5-10 watts per shaker. Ask brickie... it does not take much power.


If this can't be done, what would it take? I have read through this thread, albeit confused some/most of the time, and it appears that for 8 50 amp shakers I need a 400 watt amp.

Nope... you could do with far less... You will never feed 50 watts per shaker.

How does the wattage on normal receivers relate to the sub. For example, if a 5.1 receiver is 100 watts per channel does this mean that all 500 watts can be used for the sub if it's the only speaker attached to the receiver? Would the receiver need the capability of turning off unused ports? Any help will be appreciated. TIA
A 5.1 receiver would not usually have any subwoofer amplifier... It would have a low-level subwoofer output designed to feed a sub amplifier.

No... you cannot divert power from one channel to another in a receiver, in fact, most 500 watt receivers cannot supply 500 watts.

They may have 5 100 watt channels, but they cannot supply 100 watts when all driven at the same time. I've seen equipment reviews where when driven concurrently, they produced as little as 30 watts per channel.

Only two or three HT receiver manufacturers deliver full power when all channels are driven at the same time... (Harmon Kardon, and NAD are two names I remember, I think there might be a third, but don't remember their name)


Good luck with your project. The shakers are worth it. The pro models have binding posts instead of spade connectors, so that may make you decide to spend the extra for them... you will not likely overpower the non-pro models with them wired directly to your chairs/sofa the way you described, so you really could use either. I use the non-pro and have 4 shakers, one on each of my front row recliners, wired to a 75 watt amplifier and it is way more than enough power.

Joe L.

Joe, thanks very much for the response. One other question. Currently I have two set (4 wires) of speaker wires run to the theater for the shakers. One set is in the back of the riser and the second set is in the front of the riser. Is there any way to connect 4 shakers to each set or single wire of the set and then combine them in the equipment closet? If so, a pencil diagram would be great. Thanks again.

Thanks MississippiMan!

That is a very useful post on how to isolate my couch. Thanks again for the detail!
I'll try a variation of that and hopefully post my results.

hope this works..If not it's posted in the other "big" shaker discussion going.Here is how i mounted mine.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=23223

brickie

I am thinking about mounting mine like this, but having the shakers be on the top side, so they would be facing up
my couch and chairs don't have enough clearence to mount facing down, and would rather not have to get into take the material off, brickie install is easy and solid

Do you think that would be ok with the shakers againist the material ?

There is enough stretch in the underneath material to mount like this.

Thanks for the advice

Joe, thanks very much for the response. One other question. Currently I have two set (4 wires) of speaker wires run to the theater for the shakers. One set is in the back of the riser and the second set is in the front of the riser. Is there any way to connect 4 shakers to each set or single wire of the set and then combine them in the equipment closet? If so, a pencil diagram would be great. Thanks again.

Well, I ordered the amp and shakers from P.E. and they also sent me a wiring diagram, which was the same as one I finally found posted in this thread for 8 shakers so I guess it's correct.

I have one other question, what is everyone who is using a plate amp doing for an enclosure? Did you just make a box or is there some kind of enclosure that can be purchased. P.E. didn't have anything.

I just installed a PE Amp for my shakers (haven't built the riser yet but I wanted to get the amp out of the way). I have a Middle Atlantic Slim 5 rack, I have space in rack to mount the amp. So I did so on one side - it only takes up about 1/3 of the horizontal space. The holes in the amp didn't match up to the ME rack holes so I drilled one new hole in the amp's housing & it fit like a champ.

Bob

I have a question for you shaker in risers advocates. In reading through the threads (esp. by MM), it makes sense that attaching the shakers to risers is the way to go. However one thing confuses me - if we build a riser & put shakers on it, we'd want the riser to fit into the decor of the room. This means we'd want it carpeted. So a couple of questions:

1. Wouldn't carpeting a riser diminish the effects of the shakers? I guess we could perhaps minimize that by skipping the pad, but still it would seem to have some effect.

2. Would another approach be to attach the chairs directly to the riser before carpeting? We have 3 recliners in the front row (because of ceiling height, there'll be no riser) & a mismatch of chairs in the rear. We are thinking of movie theater style chairs for the back/riser row, I imagine we could bolt those directly to the riser & then carpet. The carpet guy would probably like it otherwise, but would this help?

3. A final question - I also see over in the HT builder forum that many people pack their risers with insulation to cut down on acoustic issues. What is the effect of such insulation on the behavior of shakers?

Thanks!
Bets

i would like to echo the recommendation that tactile transducers (i use buttkickers) give a much more life-like and pleasing effect when they shake a larger structure like a riser or a entire floor.

i have two buttkickers mounted to my subflooring in the joists (basement below theater room provides access to subflooring).

i tried my buttkickers and clark's silver transducers attached to a hardwood slab beneath my couch....plenty of shaking, but harsh, distracted from the movie, and the wife didn't like it.

attached them to the subfloor....outstanding feeling, the entire room rumbles and shakes..feels very lifelike, and adds to the movie experience, doesn't draw attention aware from the effect.

I have one other question, what is everyone who is using a plate amp doing for an enclosure? Did you just make a box or is there some kind of enclosure that can be purchased. P.E. didn't have anything.

In the same boat. My PE amp gets here today, shakers tomorrow.
So I am looking to build an enclosure for the amp myself.

Here is a link I found
http://www.io.com/~patman/ampbox.html

Snook, thanks for the link. Great information. I didn't realize that I would have to use connectors (banana plugs) to route to the shakers. Good luck with your project.

ya I didn't realize the shaker connectors are on the back of this amp (the spade connectors that he made into banana plugs)
I thought the speaker/shaker connections were on the front...

good luck to you as well

I'm sorry if this is already been asked but I can't seem to find my exact situation on here. I need to know the best way to hook up a row of three and a row of two bass shakers to my amp (specs below) which I'm using solely for the shakers. I also have a sub connected to my Dolby Digital receiver. Any help would be greatly appriciated....a diagram would be even more appriciated! Thanks... ps. Please speak as simple as possible seeing that I don't have a clue about any of this! :rolleyes:

Specs for amp

* 800W x 2 (1600W Total)
* THD better than 0.05%
* 4 Speaker connection via banana plugs
* A & B Channel Selector
* Dual RCA & 1/4" Phone inputs
* Separate volume control for each channel
* 110/220 Voltage selector
* Stereo Or Bridged Power Into 4 or 8 Ohms

Specs for bass shakers:

* Power handling Capacity: 50 - 200 watts depending on configuration.
* Impedance: 4 ohms
* Usable Frequency response: 20 to 100 Hz
* Fs: 42 Hz
* Force Nominal: 10 lbs. per ft.

Birdshead,

What amp is that? I'm assuming the 800Wx2 is actually peak wattage, or is it RMS (constant)? Way more wattage than you need, IMO (unless you're from Mississippi ;)) Which bass shakers are they... buttkickers?

Just curious... in any case, you can wire each row in series, then connect one row per channel of the receiver. Or you could get one more shaker (two rows of three), and connect three pairs in parallel, then connect those in series and bridge the amp.

For more details on series vs parallel wiring, see this thread and/or search google which will give plenty of diagrams and instruction.

HTH

Tim,

Thanks for the info..

They are Aura Pro Bass Shakers and the amp is here (http://www.4seating.com/stereo_ProBassShakerAmpPlus.htm) I got the amp and the shakers for free from this place when they screwed up my order several times! Otherwise I never would have gotten the amp.

Now, to hook up the amp to my receiver they said to use the "tape out" from my receiver.. is that the best/only way?

Thanks again..

What is anyone's experience with a hafler dh500 amp hooked into a denon 3805? Any thoughts on the best way to set that up. I'm using the amp to power my Energy c-9 floor speakers. they are a bit power hungry and I've heard this amp old but can really deliver the goods.

thanks

Now, to hook up the amp to my receiver they said to use the "tape out" from my receiver.. is that the best/only way?
No way... use the subwoofer out on your receiver, with an RCA cable to your amp line-level ins. Some of us are using FMODs (from PartsExpress.com typically) to limit the output to 70Hz or 50Hz and below, as well.

Thanks.. And for my sub??

Use an RCA Y-splitter and connect both to your receiver's sub out.

The 800x2 watt amplifier is way overpowered for Aura-Pro shakers. It might work fine for ButtKickers.

They Aura-pro shakers are identical to the non-pro models, but with heat-sink fins on the outer surface (so they can dissipate heat a bit better) and with binding posts rather than spade lug connectors. At levels under 25 watts, the pro and non-pro models shake the same amount.

Since many of us use the non-pro models (rated for 25 watts) and they shake way more than enough when fed 5 to 15 watts each, there is no way you will ever feed 200 watts to a single shaker, nor would you want to.

It is also not likely be able to safely use an 800 watt amplifier, even if divided between three shakers on one channel, or two on the other unless you turned the volume control nearly off and guaranteed that nobody would ever turn it up accidentally. A garage sale 50 watt per channel amplifier is a much better match for you.

Joe L.

Thanks guys.. So Joe, you're saying that I shouldn't even use this amp? As I said, I got it for free and I don't mind using it as long as it's not hurting anything or detracting from the sound..or in this case, the effect.

Joe makes a good point... at the least, a cheap receiver is going to do as well as that amp in your situation, so you might as well sell that amp (if you have no other use for it), and get a cheap reciever and pocket the difference.

How about this?? Can I just hook up the five shakers to my existing 280W Sony receiver using the B Speaker inputs? I just hooked up one shaker to it and it worked fine. Will it have enough power for the other four and if so, how should I hook it up? Thanks..

I guess I asked a stupid question...no one is answering!?

I guess I asked a stupid question...no one is answering!?

The only two ways to connect 5 shakers to a single channel of a receiver and have them all shake equally are all in series, for an effective resistance of 20 ohms, or all in parallel for an effective resistance of .8 ohms.

Since the likelihood of your receiver considering a .8 ohm load as a short circuit, and shutting down, overheating, or self-destructing in some fashion is high, the only real choice is all in series. (20 ohm load to receiver)

Odds are your receiver will only put out 50 watts or so into a 20 ohm load (you did not state the specific model) and since many receivers put the A and B channels in either series or parallel when both are used at the same time, the answer to your question is "maybe"

If nothing else is on the "A" channel, and if it shakes enough with the limited power available when a 20 ohm load is used on the "B" channel, then it will work. If not, you will need to find something else. In any case, having a single channel amplifier and ana odd number of shakers will limit the options available to get them to all shake equally.

Joe L.

Thanks Joe. I think I will just pick up another cheapy amp like everyone else on here seems to be doing. And yes, I've read every post of the thousand! My receiver is a Sony Dolby Digital higher end DA-60 ES but I have the rest of my equipment hooked up to it so I better not try to get cute!

What a difference it makes to go from 12 ohm circuits to 4ohm. Before, when I ran 3 Aura's in series I had to crank my Pioneer Amp about halfway to get the desired shaking effect.

Now, with 4 shakers wired in series then parallel, I only have to set my amp to about a quarter of the way.

Actually my reciever is a Sony STR-DA30ES Here are the specs on it.. This is the one I was thinking of using the B speaker inputs on..

Power (Main Speakers): 80 Watts
Power (Surround Speakers): 80 Watts
Equal power to all channels into 4/8 ohms (20-20k HZ) at 0.05% THD.

So far so good. I just hooked up the row of three to the left channel of the B speakers via a series connection. I gave it a hard demo and everything is fine....now for the other two! I figured if it blew it would give me a good excuse to get a new one!

This is kind of a follow up on one of my previous questions. I have 8 std. 4 ohm shakers and a 250 watt PE plate amp. I have a wiring diagram for this setup but am wondering if it is possible to wire it using two pairs of wire. Right now I have a wire pair going to the top of my riser for 4 shakers under a couch and I have another wire pair coming out of the front of the riser for 4 shakers in chairs. Is there any way I can wire this using these two separate pairs and joining them at the amp? This would keep me from having to extend and route the top riser wire around and under the riser to connect to the chairs in front of the riser. I hope I explained this clearly enough and hope some one can answer the question, along with a diagram of said wiring :) . Thanks for tuning in!

Hi Joe,

Though I don't have the time to create a diagram, you could do the following:
- Wire four pairs of shakers in parallel (two sets of two in parallel in each row)..
- Wire the two pairs together in series for each row (so you have a 4 ohm load in each row)
- Wire the two rows (two pairs of wire at your amp) in series, so it is a combined 8 ohms

Hopefully you can follow that description...

Though I don't have the time to create a diagram, you could do the following:
- Wire four pairs of shakers in parallel (two sets of two in parallel in each row)..
- Wire the two pairs together in series for each row (so you have a 4 ohm load in each row)
- Wire the two rows (two pairs of wire at your amp) in series, so it is a combined 8 ohms

Hopefully you can follow that description...

Tim, thanks for the response. I think I follow you, but I did call the great support at PE and they're sending me a diagram. I'm positive it is the same as you described above but I'm not good visualizing this stuff.

Would it be better to mount my shakers in my furniture or to my raised flooring under my couch? I know putting a sub on the raised floor instead of on the carpeted concrete floor allows for more bass feel.

Just curious...

Thanks

Definitely in a raised floor if possible -- start around post 700 of this thread and look at a few of MississippiMan's posts for reasons why. Like #731 and #763.

Definitely in a raised floor if possible -- start around post 700 of this thread and look at a few of MississippiMan's posts for reasons why. Like #731 and #763.
Thanks for the pointers. I've looked some but didn't find an answer to a question I have. Is there a minimum height for a riser to accomodate shakers? If so, how would it be built?

Thanks,
B

Betsy, post #764 asks that same question, and MM provides a response in #765.

The plate amps output a single speaker output for connection directly to the terminals of a subwoofer or shakers. The generally terminate in the blade type connectors that match some speaker terminals. If you don't want to void the warranty on the amp just yet, pick up some connectors at PE as well to solder or crimp onto your cables to go to the shakers.

As for four shakers at 4 ohms, that is what I have with the PE 120 W plate amp - just wire a pair of the shakers in series, and then connect another pair in series to the terminals of that pair to create a second row in parallel. I posted a crude graphic of this arrangement a couple of pages back up in this thread.

definately raised floor for me :)

Ok I just bought the aura pro bass shaker. It will arive in a few days. Im using an old pioneer receiver to power them. I have a Rotel 1056 receiver, which has 2 sub outs. Can I just use the second sub pre out and send it into the receiver and run the speaker wire to the shakers? Or do I still need to split the sub pre out between the sub and the shakers?

You should be able to use the 2nd sub pre out..May have to set it up in your receivers menu to output the signal,but you should be fine.

brickie

OK...I have two decisions.
I have read this entire thread.

I want to put bass shakers on two recliners.
I am going to power them with an old RCA prologic (not 5.1) receiver. Not sure of the power, 70W x 2 maybe.

Which is better? 1 aura pro(50W) or 2 aura regulars(25W) per recliner?

Which is better? Mounting them in the recliners as suggested on this thread or mounting them under the floor under the recliners? I have an unfinished basement and can just screw them to the ceiling in the basement. I guess there would be floorboard, subfloor plywood, carpet pad and carpet between the shaker and the recliner. A riser is not an option right now.

What do you all think? Give your opinions!

Thanks ;)

You wouldn't have enough power to shake enough if attaching to the floor. That would ultimately be the best effect, but it's more reasonable to use a riser for that -- since you can't do a riser for whatever reason, that's out.

So you can mount it directly to the recliner... if you have two mounting points, I'd do the 2x25W standards instead of single 50W, so the rumble is more dispersed. Shouldn't be a problem either way as far as having enough power from your receiver.

I just bought a used Proton D540 amp "for cheap" on ebay to use with my Aura 25w Bass Shakers (I have 6). I hooked it up as recomended with two Y adapters - one from my main receiver LFE to my sub and one from my main receiver LFE to the LR inputs on the Proton. I didn't get a manual with the amp, and it had a couple of buttons that I wasn't sure about (one marked "ACC" and the other marked "BRIDGED". Anyway, the amp also has a stereo/mono switch. When I swithched to mono, I seem to get better power out of the shakers.

Are there any advantages / disadvantages one way or the other?

Use the setting that works best..Most amps supply more power in mono or bridged mode which is what you're seeing.

brickie

Ok guys I just got my Aura pro bass shaker in today and I am having a little bit of a problem....they dont work.

So let me tell you how I have them hooked up and see if I made a mistake somewhere or if I just got a defective product.

I have 2 sub pre outs on my Rotel 1056, I flip flopped between the two with my PS1000 and the shaker just in case it was my sub pre out. Then I ran a sub cable out from the Rotel Receiver to the DVD right analog in on a cheap HTIB receiver. Then I ran the speaker wire out from the FR speaker wire outs to the shakers. And nothing happened. I then used another old Pioneer DPL receiver, to no avail.

Then to test if it was the shaker or my equipment I hooked up an old HTIB satelite speaker where the shaker was supposed to be at. I heard a very quiet sound coming from them. So either the receiver's amp doesnt have enough power, which I doubt, or because the sat doesnt have a mid/bass driver it just makes a little noise because it just cant handle the LFE input.

Do you think I have a defective product or not. I even ordered their 70W sub amp to go along with it...I jumped the gun and didnt realize that I could use one of my old receivers. And I planned to send that back anyway, but I tested it out. I know some of you guys have used these amps from Partsexpress.com. I ran an analog cable from the sub pre outs to the R input on the amp. Then I ran the speaker wire from the speaker outs to the shaker. But I am confused because there are some crazy wires on the back of the amp that I dont know what they do. They even have those weird female "slot" input connectors. Maybe that is what I was suppossed to use instead of where hte speaker wire out was, but I dont have the opposite connectors to even connect them that way.

Any ideas?

What are you using to generate a tone for the LFE? Do you have a pic for that amp with the weird connections? (or is a pic available on the PE site?) The quiet noise could just be ...noise (not the actual signal), tough to tell. If you send it an 80Hz signal, the shaker should work... what about the crossover on your receiver?

The last time someone had this problem, he had tightened down the Tactiles so tight, they could not resonate. It could be that simple, and probably is since with one test a tone of some type was received.

Just a thought---He said he used the "R" input on the amp. If you run a mono cable from the sub out on your AVR dont some amps/subs have you use the left input for mono?

Ok, so I decided to pull the amp back out and try it again. Well I used those funny connectors on the back...they are called "insulated .250" female slip on connectors"...and this is supposed to be for the subwoofer connection. Well I just shoved the speaker wire in between the plastic surround the connectors and the metal and lo and behold it worked.

So the shaker does work, so then it has to be something about the way I have it setup. And I did try it both with a Y connector from my #1 sub pre out and the sub 2 pre out as well. I just dont understand what I am doing wrong.

Here is a link to the amp that I used:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-784

So let me go over the way I had it hooked up again and somebody tell me where the kink is.

Subwoofer cable out to a Receiver's DVD R in. Then speaker wire out from the FR speaker terminals to the shaker. I have even tried two different receivers, on multiple inputs, and both L and R. I just dont see the problem.

Also my crossover is set at 60hz. I dont know if that matters, but somebody asked. My front speakers are also set to Large. Does that matter?

I just thought of something. Could the problem be that the shakers are 4 ohms and both my receivers only output 8ohms (honestly I have no idea what ohms are, but I think this is the problem). And if it is, do I just need to buy another one and run them in series to get it at 8 ohms?

A few more thoughts I had (I am in no way trying to insult your intelligence.. just trying to exhaust the possibilities I can think of):
- Subwoofer set to "On" in receiver (large shouldn't matter)
- Receiver is set to DVD (instead of Tuner, CD, Tape, etc)
- Use a Y-splitter if possible, just to eliminate that possibility (two RCAs into the old receiver), one into the sub out
- Adjust balance... (maybe it's all the way to the left?)

Your old receiver may have a circuit/switch built-in that won't drive a 4 ohm load, yes. Hook two in series and you'll get 8 ohms, just as you said. Another good troubleshooting thing to try.

A few more thoughts I had (I am in no way trying to insult your intelligence.. just trying to exhaust the possibilities I can think of):
- Subwoofer set to "On" in receiver (large shouldn't matter)
- Receiver is set to DVD (instead of Tuner, CD, Tape, etc)
- Use a Y-splitter if possible, just to eliminate that possibility (two RCAs into the old receiver), one into the sub out
- Adjust balance... (maybe it's all the way to the left?)

Subwoofer is on, because I did get it to work, and also my sub is still working.

My receiver has only 2 inputs, and I kept switching back and forth, made sure it was on 2 channel stereo, switched between FR and FL speaker terminals as well as the DVD input.

I also tried the Y splitter in the first place. Why it would matter when the signal is mono and only going to one speaker output is past me? But I will try it again tonight.

We are moving and I just unhooked one of the receivers I was trying to use with the shakers anyway. I will check the balance, but I am pretty sure its ok.

Im still thinking it might have something to do with the ohms...any ideas about that?

Oh, and when you guys are asking what my Crossover is set at, are you talking about my Rotel receiver or my HTIB receiver (which I dont even think has a xover setting....it didnt even have a powered sub)?

so is there no way to make it into 8ohms? Could I take a satelite speaker that I know wont be able to play the low freq and just wire them in series (explain to me how to do that again) and then both will have 4 ohms and then the shaker will work, and as long as the sat doesnt make some crazy noise. I will buy another one...I just wanted to test it out. I will probably end up buying three, but thats crazy that you have to have atleast 2 to use with an 8ohm impedence receiver...

Hi,

I need some advise.

I'm building a home theatre and i was wondering ... what cables do i need going between the 7.1 amp to the Bass amp. Do i need to put the bass amp close to the "Shaken" area ?

So far i put a single RCA cable between the onlyo amp to the wall that would be adjacent to to coaches.


I saw some of the bass amps have a remote control.... do i need another cable going back from the bass amp to the console ?



HELP :) Sheet rockin very soon.

so is there no way to make it into 8ohms? Could I take a satelite speaker that I know wont be able to play the low freq and just wire them in series (explain to me how to do that again) and then both will have 4 ohms and then the shaker will work, and as long as the sat doesnt make some crazy noise. I will buy another one...I just wanted to test it out. I will probably end up buying three, but thats crazy that you have to have atleast 2 to use with an 8ohm impedence receiver...
Yes, you can wire the other speaker in series to test things out. As you said, depending on the slope of your crossover, it may not make much sound at all.

I'm building a home theatre and i was wondering ... what cables do i need going between the 7.1 amp to the Bass amp. Do i need to put the bass amp close to the "Shaken" area ?
All you need is an RCA from the 7.1 amp to the shaker amp. Then you need speaker wire to each shaker from the shaker amp (ideally, so you can hook them up whatever way you want later). The only advantage of the shaker amp close to the shakers is being able to use less speaker wire.

All you need is an RCA from the 7.1 amp to the shaker amp. Then you need speaker wire to each shaker from the shaker amp (ideally, so you can hook them up whatever way you want later). The only advantage of the shaker amp close to the shakers is being able to use less speaker wire.


Did i understand correctnly from this thread that i can Y split the pre amp bass output to the stock bass speaker and to the shaker amp ?

If by stock bass speaker you mean a powered subwoofer, then yes. That is what most people are doing with their setups (including me).

If by stock bass speaker you mean a powered subwoofer, then yes. That is what most people are doing with their setups (including me).


Awesome,


Thanks a bunch :-p

Hmm sowwy another ques...

Which one of these should i use for the Aura Bass shaker?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-794

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-796

Or this

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-793


Between the first 2 .. what exactly is a bass booster? Do i need it ?


Thanks.

I've got a stupid question. I just picked up 3 pair of shakers (1 for each set, total 6) & a PE 250W plate amp. With an odd number, will I be at 6 or 12 ohms at the Amp? Which is preferable, and how can I do it? On another note, should I mount the plate amp in some sort of box? I got the model with the remote.

I've got a stupid question. I just picked up 3 pair of shakers (1 for each set, total 6) & a PE 250W plate amp. With an odd number, will I be at 6 or 12 ohms at the Amp? Which is preferable, and how can I do it? On another note, should I mount the plate amp in some sort of box? I got the model with the remote.

I have a similar setup from Parts Express. You wire a pair of shakers in series for 8 ohms . . . do this three times. Then wire each of the three series in parallel, for a total of 2.667 ohms (8/3).

I'm not sure if your plate amp will handle a 2 ohm load, but Parts Express sells the AUdioSource AMP One/A which does. This was what their tech support recommended to me.

Lee

If it can't handle 2 ohms, then wire each pair of three in series (4+4+4 = 12 ohms), then wire them together in parallel, to get 6 ohms. That is probably how I would do it in this situation.

If it can't handle 2 ohms, then wire each pair of three in series (4+4+4 = 12 ohms), then wire them together in parallel, to get 6 ohms. That is probably how I would do it in this situation.

Once you do the math, that makes more sense . . . wonder why Parts Express advised the 2.667 ohm setup. I suppose it has to do with what wattage the amp will put out at 2.67 ohms versus 6 ohms.
Lee

Yes, it will put out more power at 2.67 ohms than 6 ohms, and is thus why they suggested it. If it can handle 2 ohms, then do the 2.67 ohms method, otherwise the 6 ohm method. Either way though, there will be plenty of power for 6 shakers.

Thanks for the reply's! I'm going the 6 ohm route. I need to build one of these as well.

Amp box (http://www.io.com/~patman/ampbox.html)

I posted this in a new thread in the Subwoofer forum but only got one response so I thought I would try here also. Sorry in advance if that is frowned upon but my shakers are coming today:)

I want to mount two Aura 25 watt shakers in a recliner.
I want to wire them in series(8 ohms) and run them to one channel of my old prologic receiver.

Here's the thing...there is nowhere to mount a cross member to mount the shakers to so they will be parallel to the ground.

There is however room to mount them on the inside of the sides of the recliner.(Perpendicular to the ground but opposing each other)
But...if my thinking is correct they may mechanically cancel each other out like two subwoofers in an IB cube manifold.

Could I reverse the positive and negative connections on one of the shakers so this pistons would be travelling in the same direction? (basically one going up as the other goes down instead of opposing each other)

edit: To clarify further, I would wire as follows:
Positive from amp to positive on shaker1, negative on shaker1 to NEGATIVE on shaker2, positive on shaker2 to negative on amp.
I am hoping this will be an 8 ohm load and cause the shaker pistons to move in opposite directions(inside the shakers).
Will this work like I am thinking? Would this damage the shakers?

I have read the entire sticky shaker thread and I don' t think this was covered.
Thanks for any input!

Dont think you can damage them its AC current anyway.

The only thing that would change is the phase.



But i'm not an expert :-p

I'm not sure if that would work.. it'd be interesting to try, though. I'd mount it and wire both ways and see which you like more. Possibly use an ohmmeter to ensure the correct load, etc.

Can you actually use a oem meter for those ?


I thought that since its AC the Z factor comes into play since its a solenoid.

Could I reverse the positive and negative connections on one of the shakers so this pistons would be travelling in the same direction? (basically one going up as the other goes down instead of opposing each other)

edit: To clarify further, I would wire as follows:
Positive from amp to positive on shaker1, negative on shaker1 to NEGATIVE on shaker2, positive on shaker2 to negative on amp.
I am hoping this will be an 8 ohm load and cause the shaker pistons to move in opposite directions(inside the shakers).
Will this work like I am thinking? Would this damage the shakers?

I have read the entire sticky shaker thread and I don' t think this was covered.
Thanks for any input!
Yes... you can do exactly as you said. There is no "positive" and "negative" on any speaker (or shaker), but instead a "polarity" that will move the cone/shaker in a specific direction. If you mount and wire the shakers are you described, no harm will come to them, they will shake in unison with their internal pistons moving in opposite directions, and the shaking forces will add rather than possibly cancel each other out. (because they are facing in opposite directions)

You will as you said get an 8 ohm load when connecting two 4 ohm shakers in series so your receiver will be happy too. (As happy as receivers can get, that is...)

Joe L.

All right!
Sounds like my evil plan for the bass shakers is going to work out.
Now if UPS just hasn't lost them...they were supposed to come yesterday.
I tracked them...the last time they were scanned was yesterday at 6am.
Maybe they are on the truck Dale Jarrett is driving! :eek:

Thanks for the input! :)
Now if I can get this IB decision worked out...but that's another thread...

and in the end...

Dale delivered my shakers while I was at work yesterday!

I unpacked and installed them while my girl was making dinner(somedays are diamonds!) and of course it was trickier than I expected due to a slight :rolleyes: underestimating of the size of the shakers on my part and all the fun recliner mechanisms. Not to mention I have two different recliners so I had to have two different plans :)

But finally I have two recliners with two 25W Auras each...I pop in Jurassic Park...skip to the obligatory T. Rex chapter...the first step happens...the water in the glass on the screen shakes...but my chair doesn't. :(
Pause the DVD...turn up the shaker amp to 3/4 power...unpause...second step happens...

:eek: Felt like the dang thing stepped next to me!

These things are a blast! Thanks for all the input!
Oh, I did wire them up in series with one shaker's polarity reversed to avoid mechanical cancelling as discussed a couple of posts up. Works great.

Awesome :)

Can't wait to get mind installed !

Say anyone else sees avs forum good on firefox and just a text version on IE ?

Whats up with that ?

It's probably a cookie for your IE browser that's using the AVS Mobile stylesheet. Go to IE, and toward the bottom should have a link to AVS White (or heaven forbid, AVS Dark Theater, but that's a different topic..)

Hi guys,

Quick power question. I have 6 of the standard shakers hooked up to a PE plate amp. The plate amp is 250 @ 4 ohm (about 180 @ 8 ohm). I have them wired so the amp see's a 6 ohm load. If I assume a 6 ohm load allows for about 215 watts out of the amplifier this would have each shaker seeing about 35 watts maximum.

My question is this: I have these in a riser (4' x 8' x 10"). The effect is best near maximum gain from the amplifier. Am I tempting fate with the power going to these currently or do I look all right?

If you're using maximum gain, I'd try rewiring them at a lower ohm load (like 4 ohms, or even 2 if the amp supports it). That'll give you more power and headroom. However, what I just suggested is more of a band aid for the root cause which is a lack of enough shakers (or powerful enough ones) to move the entire riser, seats, and people on it.

I'd probably double the number of shakers, or add some pros, etc. How many seats/people are there? Is the effect that you get at maximum gain what you want, or do you think you'd even want more than that?

I'd say that the affect at maximum gain is about right. I still have to set my sub (ATI titan) with my BFD. My biggest concern is if the power (assumed 35 watts peak) will be too much long term and if I'll be frying them (the shakers). I don't want to be opening up the riser on a regular basis.

Hi guys,
My question is this: I have these in a riser (4' x 8' x 10"). The effect is best near maximum gain from the amplifier. Am I tempting fate with the power going to these currently or do I look all right?

Looks perfect. Odds are high you will never have to open up the riser.

The LFE duty cycle in movies is not anywhere near the duty cycle of bass when listening to music. (And if you listen to music with them shaking that much, odds are you will want to turn the shaking amp down else your vision be permanently blurred. :))

Bear in mind, the shakers need to have something to "shake" so the riser should be supported only at corners and optimally on a padded surface that has some give. (rubber isolators are sold by some for this exact purpose, you can do the same with a layer of carpet or two attached to the bottom of the joists in your riser if it is free-standing)

Joe L.

Joe-

Thanks very much. I can now sleep easy. I thought I'd be ok but had some lingering doubts. The riser is floating and on rubber isolators with the center joists lifted up so I think my construction is pretty decent.

For others with thoughts of putting these in risers, I think I'd look at a different option if I were going larger than what I did. for 4 x 8 x 10" though, It works great thanks to the help of persons that put this post together.

Thanks again,

Ed

I'd probably double the number of shakers, or add some pros, etc. How many seats/people are there? Is the effect that you get at maximum gain what you want, or do you think you'd even want more than that?
Is there a rule of thumb for the number of shakers for a given riser space? We are going to build a riser (someday!), it will probably be around 8' wide x around 4' deep. We will put 4 chairs on it. We have several shakers we bought several months ago (non-pro), I was wonder if there's a rule of thumb.

Thanks!

Well Betsy, if you talk to MississippiMan (who's done many, many a tactile transducer install), he'd say use as many as you can, and spread out the shaking, have plenty of power, and use the amount of gain that you like best. Obviously that's best case scenario, and can be quite expensive.

The first thing I'd suggest is attaching the shakers to the riser, as opposed to the chairs (you probably are already planning on that, but thought I'd mention it). Secondly, isolate the riser from the floor, as Joe has suggested.

From there, it depends on the size of the shaker as far as how many to use. For example, the buttkicker is much, much more powerful than a standard Aura shaker. I haven't seen any rules of thumb mentioned in this thread yet, other than MMan's, so at that point you should probably go based off of what others have done here. Fortunately, it was just yesterday (as you can see) that Ed used a 4'x8' riser and used 6 shakers, and it was just barely enough. Depending on how many "several" is, you can use the 6 as a baseline.

As I've been participating in this thread, I've been trying to kind of establish what a good baseline is, based on attaching to a riser and using standard shakers (since this is what I'm going to be doing ultimately). This is somewhat rare since most people who are attaching to a riser are using more powerful transducers. However, I'm planning on putting one every 4 sq ft or so, attached to the riser.

Just time for a "Quickie".
...yeah, right. :rolleyes:

On a 4' x 8' riser (not much space....small chairs?) I would use no less than 4 Aura Pros and a Amplifier stout enough to push at minumum a 4 ohm load and deliver a clean 50 watts "Continious" output of LFE. That's more power than most people realize.

The whole object is, as Miltimj stated, to use as many as you can, distribute them as equally as you can, power them as cleanly as you can with as much power in reserve as you can have, and be able to get the effect you want without having to drive any or all of them too hard. Floors and Platforms are NOT the same thing as a Chair or Couch, and MUST be considered in a different perspective.

I have always felt the 'tactile bass' effect is far more realistic when distributed equally across the mass/area of a floor/riser. Of course, the construction quality of both also comes into play, so don't scrimp or "make due".

On a recent Riser/Floor combo, I used 16 Pros.
8 on a 16' x 6' x 10" Riser, and 8 below and 4' the front of the Riser.
Amplification will be one wittle bitty Crown 1200 watt x 2 Amp ($695.00)
2 Channels x 2 Ohms
(4 Aura Paralleled <1 ohm. x 2 of those circuits then Seriesed <2 Oms>

Nothing helps make a good tactile system seem even more emphatic that it's being well-coupled with an adaquate, conventional sub woofer. When both are adjusted to compliment, neither has to be as overly apparent or overbearing to create an effect that far exceeds what either alone can accomplish.

Things to keep in mind is that the more mass you must energize, the more power must be available. Too much "power" <volume> in any one location of a structure risks overdriving it into "Howling" or vibrating adversely. You want "Deep, percussive Resonance, not the "Shakin" as most people relate it. That's just a good term for the Layman to wrap around, but in actuallity, brings up questions and even Red Flags in the minds of some (Ladies mostly) who misconstrue.

But make no mistake, a well thought out, well installed Tactile application, powered adaquately, will in fact "Shake the living hell out of your senses" when you play the "Under Attack" scene from Master & Commander" or buzz you to the core when Doc Octavius turns on his Reactor in Spiderman 2.

Anything less than something that elects a "Oh MY Gawd!" expression from your unexpected HT victim is not adaquate in my opinion.

But that's me.

MMan, quick question for you regarding type of shaker. Given our agreement that the transducing effect should be dispersed, is there a downside to using two standard auras instead of one pro? There seem to be two benefits that I can think of -- obviously, more dispersion (and 2 x 25W standards = 1 x 50W pro), and cost (two standards are cheaper than one pro, and you're more likely to need that many standards so you can buy in bulk).

MMan, quick question for you regarding type of shaker. Given our agreement that the transducing effect should be dispersed, is there a downside to using two standard auras instead of one pro? There seem to be two benefits that I can think of -- obviously, more dispersion (and 2 x 25W standards = 1 x 50W pro), and cost (two standards are cheaper than one pro, and you're more likely to need that many standards so you can buy in bulk).

The Power aspect only applies to paralleled circuts. Using twice as many "Standards will get the distribution index way up, but will also require innovative wiring, and in the end, the specific amount of tactiles, and number of channels of amplification needed to do the job will undoubtedly rise.

I dunno 'bout you, but my Pros don't hit me to hard in the Pocketbook, That's why I use 'em intead of BKs and Clarks, and such. Plus, ifin' I'ma gonna series any tew indyvidual yewnits togedder, deys a'gonna be 50 watt'ers. Da Mo' handlin' power per yewnit, de bedder.

It's hard to balance what I know is needed for my KITA Tactile applications, and what many who are just getting the word feel would be Ok. Ya jus know'd I'd be opinionated, but it's an opinion based on experience across many different fronts, from residential applications to huge commercial ones. They all essentially fit the same critera for evaluation and design. "Don't send a Boy to do a Man's Job."

But if you do, send in a Troop of Boy Scouts. But be prepared to feed 'em all they need to eat.

One quick thought for Betsy C. Not only do you have a given area to think of, but also a given weight that you are trying to move. If you have heavy seating that is going on your riser, you will obviously need a bit more. Also figure in the weight of the individuals that will be occupying the riser.

As pointed out by miltimj, I just completed my 4' x 8' x 10" riser and found that 6 regular shakers work well for my setup near full gain on my amp (~ 210 watts @ 6 ohms). I would consider this a minimum (and I am not a bass head).

Ed

If I could do it again, I'd probably wait to get the Pros... My current situation is mounting in the couch(es) *gasp*, and next year or so I'll be building a dedicated room with risers that I'll take from the couch and add some more. I wanted standards for the couch to disperse more, but wanted to get in bulk since I knew I'd be using them in the future.

Oh well.. I think I'll end up using the 16 standards I have, and when I build my second dedicated HT I'll use pros or something similar (or more subs :)). Thanks for the feedback.. good point about the parallel wiring.

I just bought 2 bass shakers to attach to my couch. I have an Onkyo 5.1 HTIB and about a 20 year old Kenwood receiver to power the shakers. When I split the subwoofer output to go to the Kenwood, my subwoofer barely played. So I ran RCA outputs from the Onkyo to the Kenwood, and everything played just fine. I was just wondering if using a regular output instead of a subwoofer output would make me lose any signal or effect or anything. Thanks.

Sorry if this has been asked or questioned before, but several searches through this thread didn't yield the answer I was seeking.

What is the effect -3dB down point of the basic shaker? I've got 4 mounted on my chair, and when running Avia low-frequency sweep test tones through it, the bass begins to dramatically roll-off around 42Hz, and its completly gone by 38hz. If I place my hand on the shaker, I can still feel a tiny quiver, but if I have a hard time feeling it with my hand on it, it has no hope of shaking the couch.

Aren't these things supposed to be moving still at 20hz? I've got 100w going into them. In fact, I re-wired it to send 100W to just one, and got the same net result. 42hz rolloff.

Something seems fishy with my setup.

Can anyone else verify the 20hz cutoff point, or is that just marketing?

Honestly, they struggle to go anywhere near that low. It's one reason I eventually went with the Buttkicker LFE. It absolutely will :)

Honestly, they struggle to go anywhere near that low. It's one reason I eventually went with the Buttkicker LFE. It absolutely will :)

AHh, so I'm not crazy. Guess I can't whine, seeing as how cheap they are. Or maybe I am crazy, as I'll likely leave the 4 wired where they are, and pick up an additional buttkicker for the eventual platform. :D

You will never, EVER have ANY program content come from a DVD that is below 40 Hz.

Ever.

Unless it is a test DVD.

But what Madpoet sez is still valid. Robust units such as the BK or Clark, by having the virtue of the potential to reproduce such LF efficently (...well sort of....they must gobble up considerable power to do so...any Sub must.) ....they will always produce what IS delevered with more emphasis and less distortion.

Very true :). I like to plan ahead, and I'm convinced (though I have no empirical proof) that some of the HD stuff has a lower range than 40hz.

You will never, EVER have ANY program content come from a DVD that is below 40 Hz.

Ever.

Unless it is a test DVD.

But what Madpoet sez is still valid. Robust units such as the BK or Clark, by having the virtue of the potential to reproduce such LF efficently (...well sort of....they must gobble up considerable power to do so...any Sub must.) ....they will always produce what IS delevered with more emphasis and less distortion.

Interesting statement. I have no statistical evidance to back up my belief that the LFE channel on DVD's most certainly do go down to 20hz (resident evil, for one), but I would be interested to see graphs or some technical specification that states that recording engineers do not, on purpose, record content below 40hz for the LFE track. Keep in mind that I'm also remixing my main's content into the sub output, so the potential increases at that point.

I first noticed the drop when listening to a music CD, (Techmaster P.E.B. which some may argue does not quality for music) but on the lowest notes of the song (track 10, 1:50) the bass drops off and disappears. Having used this CD extensively in my car audio SPL days, I know what it can do, and know what the limitations of my system are.

My hope, perhaps false, was that I could count on my def tech mains to produce bass down to 30hz (which is their tuning frequency), and use shakers for that last 10hz (since I really can't hear that low anyway).

Finally, and this is perhaps entirelly offtopic, has anyone experiment with mounting free-air subs in a platform, as opposed to shakers? I have a JL Audio 12" sub pushed up with the driver flush to the back of the couch, and the impact from it is much more forceful and deeper (it actually does go down to about 23hz) than the shakers, although it's not quite the same sensation.

It seems like I could mount a few drivers (3, one for each seat of my couch) under a 4x8 platform, and achieve the same sonic effect, if not more so.

No content at 20hz??? I thought DD and DTS was capable of going MUCH lower.Some have reported content at 10hz I believe..Not sure about that statement.

brickie

What about this graph that shows a scene from The Phantom Menace that seems to do 20Hz?
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/faq_tpm.htm

Or the graphs from their list of bassy scenes in movies:
http://www.svsubwoofers.com/faq.htm#moviedemos

Seems I'm behind the times. :confused: :( :o

Also, I might have to rethink my dependence on using Aura pros to combat excessive costs when providing the "BIG THUMP". Many more "uninitiated" HT Clients will bite on my suggestions for an additional LFE channel if the overall cost for a LFE effect doesn't escalate beyond $5-600.00 total.

If those frequencies are ther, I wanna let 'em loose! :eek:

But in actuallity, the resonance factor inherent in most structures cannot have the required dampening to allow the effective transmission opf 'below 20 Hz" content at any appreciable intensity.

What to do?

I'll tell ya. I never count on Tactiles to do such Yeomans' chores. I leave that primarily to the 1 or 2 conventional subs that are employed.

Thanks for the "lesson" Guys. I'll be moving Heaven & Earth before to long. :D

Now it would be interesting to have users with various shaker models and the frequency sweep test running to see how low the various shakers go.

I agree with MMan that the lowest frequencies are best felt from a sub or two... Also, if the effect is at 25Hz and the shakers work down to 40Hz, you can bet the 40Hz from the shakers (while the sub is at 25Hz) is going to be stronger than the 40Hz in a scene that only goes down to 40Hz (I hope that made sense).

I agree with MMan that the lowest frequencies are best felt from a sub or two... Also, if the effect is at 25Hz and the shakers work down to 40Hz, you can bet the 40Hz from the shakers (while the sub is at 25Hz) is going to be stronger than the 40Hz in a scene that only goes down to 40Hz (I hope that made sense).

"Resonantly so"

Coupling the resonance from shakers with that of a Sub is what its really all about. As in any "Crossover Point", the greater the overlap of frequencies, the more emphatic the resonance will be within both sides of, and the top of the slopes.

Too much, and "Resonant Howling" occurs. Too little, and the effect is weak, at best.

I have the Buttkicker amp limitting my upper range to about 55htz. It felt like a good level to me. And my CS-Ultra is cut off at 20hz to prevent bottoming out. So my BK fills whatever range exists between 5hz and 20hz ;). I've used the lowest test frequencies I could find, and the BK is still shaking on them.

After thinking about this again, I've wondered why any shaker wouldn't go down to whatever frequency it was given. There's nothing special about it, as opposed to an actual cone woofer that needs to travel a certain distance to achieve lower frequencies accurately. But a shaker should be able to handle any low frequency.

I wonder if 91BlckGT's setup has a high pass 40 or 50 Hz crossover somewhere? Even an internal crossover within the receiver/amp? What type of receiver/amp are you using, 91BlckGT? I'm guessing an HTiB receiver (for example) might intentionally limit the low end so as to not bottom out the relatively weak sub that comes with it.

Just a thought... I'm going to do a sweep test with my standards tonight.

After thinking about this again, I've wondered why any shaker wouldn't go down to whatever frequency it was given. There's nothing special about it, as opposed to an actual cone woofer that needs to travel a certain distance to achieve lower frequencies accurately. But a shaker should be able to handle any low frequency.

I wonder if 91BlckGT's setup has a high pass 40 or 50 Hz crossover somewhere? Even an internal crossover within the receiver/amp? What type of receiver/amp are you using, 91BlckGT? I'm guessing an HTiB receiver (for example) might intentionally limit the low end so as to not bottom out the relatively weak sub that comes with it.

Just a thought... I'm going to do a sweep test with my standards tonight.

Basic setup:
Pioneer Elite VS-26TX amp.
Oppo Digital 971H connected via SPDIF to Receiver. Receiver has speakers set thusly:
Main: Large, Surround: Small, Center: Small, Sub: Plus (route bass to both sub and main). Although I've tried Yes as well.

Y-Cable splitting subout into 1 def tech main BP2002TL, the other follows a 25' RCA run around the room (here's where things get interesting):
RCA cable ends in another Y-splitter dual RCA in to a "Headroom Little Pre-Amp" (A headphone amp) which I use to control gain to my sub amp.
Output of the amp is a 1/4" phono plug which goes to a mini plug that ends in yet another y-splitter into the L/R input sof my amp.

My sub amp is a rugged old-school RCA HTIB amp. It's quite heavy, and while I've never mesaured the true output, it's rated at 100x2. The coil in it is nearly as large as the Pioneer, so I don't question it's output capability.

THe right channel goes to JL Audio 12" sub in an car enclosure I built.
The left channel goes to the 4 Aura Bassshakers.

I can play the frequency sweeps, and I can see / hear / feel the JL going down all the way to 23hz. I can still see it at 20, but no longer hear it.

The bassshaker, with my hand on it, stops physically vibrating at 40hz. I've also tried just running 1 shaker instead of 4 (assuming it was my wiring). Still stopping at 40hz.

Interesting statement. I have no statistical evidance to back up my belief that the LFE channel on DVD's most certainly do go down to 20hz (resident evil, for one), but I would be interested to see graphs or some technical specification that states that recording engineers do not, on purpose, record content below 40hz for the LFE track.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=144887

I think these graphs settle the argument quite nicely. Down to 5hz. :eek:

Yes, you can find more like the above here...
http://ultimateavmag.com/images/archivesart/1004way.waterfalls.jpg

Kinda shows you the differences in subs, eh?

(edited to show next link)
This next one isn't so colorful, but also shows LOTR RotK & StarWars2 going down to 4kz.
http://www.users.bigpond.com/bcolliso/waterfall-plots/waterfall-plots.htm

Sure does. Now if only those bassshakers could handle it. :)

We can *only* wish...

Sure does. Now if only those bassshakers could handle it. :)

While setting up my shaker riser I did some ETF sweeps of the platform and could eq it with my BFD pretty flat from 20-60 hz. The spec sheet from AURA says 20-80 usable.
http://www.aurasound.com/discontinued/images/spec/ast_1b_4_b.jpg

While testing with various dvds I found it's better to leave the resonant frequency of the platform and shakers alone and cut the peak at 40HZ down about 6-10db.

Here are some tests I ran on my shaker riser.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res02dad/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/shakersweep.jpg.w300h330.jpg

Before EQ. Connected to LFE using ETF low frequency sweep.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res02dad/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shakers_no_eq.jpg

After EQ. LFE signal processed with BFD. Sharp low pass filter at 50Hz, cuts at 40 and boost below 30.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res02dad/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shakers_bfd_eq.jpg

BFD channel settings (YMMV) ;)
chan Fc Ff "Bw 1/60" Gain
1 50 +10 10 -8
2 63 -6 21 -15
3 32 +4 60 +10
4 20 +0 60 +6
5 80 +0 20 -12
6 125 -6 20 -12
7 160 +0 60 -14
8 40 +0 60 0 to +10 (thump level adjust)

Here are some test I ran on my shaker riser.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res02dad/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/.pond/shakersweep.jpg.w300h330.jpg

Before EQ. Connected to LFE using ETF low frequency sweep.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res02dad/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shakers_no_eq.jpg

After EQ. LFE signal processed with BFD. Sharp low pass filter at 50Hz, cuts at 40 and boost below 30.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res02dad/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/shakers_bfd_eq.jpg
Wow... now I know what I have to do with the second channel of my BFD equalizer.

mntmst, You wouldn't want to post the specific settings you used on the BFD, would you (frequencies, bandwidths and gains of the filters you used) From what I see, they should apply to most situations.

Joe L.

Wow... now I know what I have to do with the second channel of my BFD equalizer.

mntmst, You wouldn't want to post the specific settings you used on the BFD, would you (frequencies, bandwidths and gains of the filters you used) From what I see, they should apply to most situations.

Joe L.

Edited my first post to include filter settings. How well this works in a chair or sofa is anybodys guess as my riser was designed to be a bass-shaker platform.

Edited my first post to include filter settings. How well this works in a chair or sofa is anybodys guess as my riser was designed to be a bass-shaker platform.

Wow, that's pretty sweet. Good to know that they are, given proper EQ and installation, capable of lower numbers than 40.

So all this talk of resonant frequency... I wonder if those slabs of wood in the couch are the cause of my problems? I'll unmount it tonight (if the baby stays alseep of course) and run another test.

So I unmounted the shaker, and putt a bass CD on, and retested, with it receiving 100W of straight power.

Wow.

A whole lot of movement with the CD. So I tried my Avia disc.

Nothing.

Hmm...

So then in went "Day after tomorrow", which has some incredibly low, bone jarring stuff in opening credits (as it flies over the ice fields). Lots of movement. Sweet.

So then the shaker was stuffed into the rungs of the couch, those metal wires which provide a modicum of comfort whilest sitting. I sat down, and quickly noticed the placement was not ideal, having it centered directly below the, ahem, buttocks.

Pressed play on the movie. Felt a good bit of movement, nothing too fancy, and then the deep bass it.

:D wow :D umph :D ohh :D holy crap! :D

Two things.

1. These aura's DO go deep, when properly mounted.
2. My wife sat on it, looked at me, smiled, and said with vibrating like this...

Suddenly she has a new found interest in watching sci-fi movies again. But it gets old with the constant "can you repeat that scene again" and "you're not rewinding fast enough"... ;)

Because my SVS-PC Ultra sub is powered... it has all these connections on the back and some outputs...

Can I wire some shakers directly from the back of the sub?

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/images/pc_ultra/lowrezbackpanel.jpg

Can I wire some shakers directly from the back of the sub?

Yes, you can, but No, you would not want to.
The connections that you would normally use for speakers are high level (after the crossover). You would have them shaking when people speak. Not good.
The other low level outputs (RCA) could be used to add an amplifier after it though.

No, Mark, because the speaker level outputs will send signals that are above the sub's internal crossover point, not below it. They are for use when you don't have a sub line level output from your receiver and you must send the L & R channels to the sub; it then separates them based on the crossover setting, and reproduces the lower part through its woofer, and sends the higher part to the speakers that are hooked up to the speaker level outputs.

You need to use a separate amplifier/receiver; you could hook up that separate amp to the line level output of your sub though, as that is all of the signals that are received by the sub (simply passed to the line level out, as well as reproduced by the sub).

Edit: Seems jenielsen beat me to it..

I'm looking to set up some shakers. However, I live in an apartment, and am worried about vibrations through the floor. I know there are dampers available, which I may use. The bigger problem is I'd like to attach them to a loveseat (which I don't want to cut into) and to a rocking, swivelling recliner. The solution I have in mind would be to create a small platform for each piece of furniture to sit on. The platforms should be just big enough to hold the furniture, so you'll still have your feet on the floor. Because of this, I'd keep the height of the platforms as low as possible. I'd also like to use the most rigid material I can, I think. Anyway, has anyone done something quite like this (that is, not in a dedicated home theater with purpose-built risers)? Will this work?

I'd be open to other ideas of wiring up these pieces of furniture too. With the recliner, because of the swivel, I can't have wires running directly into it, but I could have them going to a fixed platform. And, for the loveseat it's not really conducive to me getting into the frame to attach things (I'd post an image, but I'm not allowed, yet).

Lastly, how many shakers (I'm thinking of the standard Aura ones, from Parts Express) should I be using?

With the recliner, because of the swivel, I can't have wires running directly into it, but I could have them going to a fixed platform.

I have four swivel rocker/recliners in my theater. Each has a shaker screwed to the wooden cross-member that spans the front of the rocker. Now, perhaps your room is such that the chair can swivel 360 degrees, mine can't. If so, I can see how the wire to the shaker might be an issue. Because the swivel is somewhat restricted in my seating arrangement I have no problem with the wire to the shaker as people turn and rock. In fact, the shaking is more intense since I'm shaking the chair, not the floor.

Joe L.

Though I agree that the shaking is more intense in a piece of furniture, it's also more artificial than a platform ("the ground") shaking beneath you.

NY, eight shakers (divided however it makes sense) for a mono amp, or four shakers for a stereo amp would work well, from an impedance standpoint (8 ohms), when wired correctly of course.

Though I agree that the shaking is more intense in a piece of furniture, it's also more artificial than a platform ("the ground") shaking beneath you.

miltimj,
You are correct... it would be better if you could get the floor/platform shaking.
Unfortunately, the floor in my theater is the carpet covered concrete slab of my basement. No way to "shake" it, so I don't even try. The shakers mounted in the recliners are next-best to shaking the entire room and if adjusted so the effect is not as intense works pretty well. (too intense feels artificial to me)

Joe L.

Whew! That was some long reading! Between all of this thread and the other bass shaker thread, I finally think I'm ready to start work on my shaker setup. I am pretty sure that I know what I need to get, how I need to wire and all that. I just want to run my choices by you guys to see if it's going to work. Hopefully JL, brickie and others still check up on this thread...

I will be buying 2 Std. 25w Aura shakers and this panel amp: Partnumber 300-784 on PartsExpress (Sorry, can't post links yet). It's rated at 45w @ 8 ohms and 70w @ 4 ohms. I will be wiring the shakers in series to the amp, resulting in an 8 ohm load to the amp. If I want to, in the future, can I add another 2 shakers in parallel with the original two (4 ohm load)? What I'm asking is: will this amp be sufficient for powering either 2 or 4 shakers, or is it not powerful enough? I know most say more power is better, but I don't have that large of a budget right now.

I'll be splitting my SUB-out from the main receiver, going to my sub and the shaker amp. The amp has gain control and adjustable crossover (60-200Hz). I should be set there.

Now for mounting: I'll be mounting it on my metal frame futon. I think what I will do is get some MDF and mount the shakers on that, then mount that onto the frame. Should I use 2 pieces of MDF or 1 big piece?

I also have some questions on the panel amp. Should I place it close to the shakers and run an RCA line to it from the rest of the equipment, or should I place the amp close to the equipment and run speaker wire (gauge?) to the shakers? Also, do I have to mount the amp in something? Is there any risk (other than looking ugly) to have it out in the open?

Thanks a bunch for your help!
-Spence

Suddenly she has a new found interest in watching sci-fi movies again. But it gets old with the constant "can you repeat that scene again" and "you're not rewinding fast enough"... ;)

So that's what I need to make this 10th wedding anniversary special. ;)

Hopefully JL, brickie and others still check up on this thread...Some of us still do..
I will be buying 2 Std. 25w Aura shakers and this panel amp: Partnumber 300-784 on PartsExpress (Sorry, can't post links yet). It's rated at 45w @ 8 ohms and 70w @ 4 ohms. I will be wiring the shakers in series to the amp, resulting in an 8 ohm load to the amp. If I want to, in the future, can I add another 2 shakers in parallel with the original two (4 ohm load)? What I'm asking is: will this amp be sufficient for powering either 2 or 4 shakers, or is it not powerful enough? I know most say more power is better, but I don't have that large of a budget right now.
Not only did you read the thread, you understood it too. That amp is perfect for what you are thinking (now, with 2 shakers connected as an 8 ohm load, and later, with 4 connected as a 4 ohm load) and similar in size/power to what I'm using in my theater.
Now for mounting: I'll be mounting it on my metal frame futon. I think what I will do is get some MDF and mount the shakers on that, then mount that onto the frame. Should I use 2 pieces of MDF or 1 big piece?
Can't help you as much here since every chair/sofa will be different. Basically, you want to transfer vibration, so stiffness and ability to transfer vibration are your guide to success. If two smaller pieces of MDF are easier physically, then that is what I would do... as I said, every situation is different.
I also have some questions on the panel amp. Should I place it close to the shakers and run an RCA line to it from the rest of the equipment, or should I place the amp close to the equipment and run speaker wire (gauge?) to the shakers? Also, do I have to mount the amp in something? Is there any risk (other than looking ugly) to have it out in the open?Either way will work. I have my shaker amplifier close to the rest of the equipment and ran the wires from the shakers to it. The plate amplifier I used for the shakers I scrounged out of a PE 10" subwoofer and had a plastic box covering the back, so the amplifier is just sitting on the bottom shelf of the equipment rack. If the back of your amplifier is not enclosed, and potential for electrical shock exists since everything is exposed, a simple wooden box for it should be used to make it safe. The other PE 250 watt plate amplifier I used for my Adire Tempest subwoofer is right next to the subwoofer and connected to it with about three feet of speaker wire. I ran a coax with RCA connectors on the ends from the "Y" splitter at the equipment rack in the back of the room to it in the front of the room.
Thanks a bunch for your help!
-SpenceYou are welcome.

Joe L.

What is used to fmod (as it has been referred to) to adjust the freq to 50hz and below?

Parts Express sells the filter that you speak of.Just goes inline on the rca cable.May also be able to find on ebay.I used one for awhile but found it unnecessary.

brickie

Thanks Brickie!
DJ

Quick question for the other guys with shakers:

I have my LFE channel split with a Y-adapter to my shaker amp and to my subwoofer amp. Is there any easy solution for eliminating the "pop" that occurs in my subwoofer when I power on my shaker amp? I know I could just turn on the shakers first and then turn on the subwoofer but there are some situations where I don't run the shakers until I watch certain types of materials, and power cycling the sub amp seems like a wasted step.

I guess what I'm envisioning is some kind of RCA line-level 'diode' that only allows signal to travel one direction but without reducing the volume output much. My main receiver doesn't cause a pop so it's the fault of the cheap shaker amp. If I can isolate that one branch of the Y-adapter my sub shouldn't pop anymore, right?

has anyone blown there bass shakers yet?
because i hope mine our not blown but here is what happened..... i was connecting a dvd player and i must have moved the connections to the bass shaker amp,because when i turned on the amp for the shakers all i got was a loud hum..... i then checked all connections and they seem fine but no shaking?

i have a nother old yamaha m-85 receiver it is very powerful though it is rated at 1100 watts... but if i only turn it up to 1 on the dial wil this be ok? do i just hook up the cord to input in? because that is all it has on the back for connections... i think it comes with a seperate pre amp with it ,but i hope i do not need that,....
i forgot to say my set up i have 4 pro shakers on 4 chairs hooked up in serries.....

Raymond, you can't really blow bass shakers because they're just pistons inside a chassis.

You also can't hook up too powerful of a receiver, because (as you hinted at) you can just turn the gain/volume down.

To jvgillow:
I think there's some problem with your shaker amp. It shouldn't be backfeeding it's powerup pulse through it's input circuit.

I'd say find a second-hand amp/receiver and use it instead.

Yeah eventually I'm going to replace the shaker receiver with a pro amp. It's just a $80 Sherwood RX4103 stereo receiver from Circuit City. I think that the relay circuit is working because I hear a 4 second delay before the second 'click' after hitting the power button, but I think this is designed to protect the downstream speakers and not the upstream source. For now I'm solving the problem by turning on the shakers first then the sub amp.

Raymond, you can't really blow bass shakers because they're just pistons inside a chassis.

You also can't hook up too powerful of a receiver, because (as you hinted at) you can just turn the gain/volume down.

Unless there is a protection fuse, or current limiter, you can blow anything. Plug that shaker into a 120 and see what happens.

Of course it's possible to blow anything (thus my "really" caveat). But I think I'll have to take you up on that offer to hook one up to 120... Just for fun. :)

Wow, great thread. I am headed to PE to buy some shakers and had a quick question on the riser installation...

I will be buying 6 regular Aura's and mounting 3 in my back riser but was wondering how to mount the other 3 to my front couch. I can't make a riser for my front couch because I have fairly low ceilings. So I was wondering if I should just bolt them dirctly to the couch or buy a sheet of 3/4" MDF, lay that on my carpeted floor, screw the Aura's down to it, then put my couch back on top of the MDF? I would also carpet the 12 or 16 inches of MDF sticking out in front of the couch where your feet would be. Would a single sheet of MDF work sort of like a very slim riser? The Aura's would be bolted down to it and the couch and your feet would be on it.

Also, I'm assuming 3 Aura's wired in series for 12ohms would work fine on any receiver capable of driving 8ohms? What exactly does feeding 12ohms into a 8ohm receiver do? Does it cut the amount of power going to the shakers or something? Any disadvantage? Are the shakers less responsive?

Any info appreciated!

UnknownShadow,

The single layer of MDF most likely would not work very well since it is not perfectly rigid, and thus would dampen the effect of the shakers (especially since the standard Auras are not very powerful). If you could stiffen it up with some framing, perhaps above the MDF (like an inverted platform) where that framing is hidden inside the cavity of the bottom of the couch, that may help.

Also, it's imperative that you'd isolate the MDF from the ground with rubber isolators, probably one under each leg of the couch so the MDF doesn't break. You'd probably need them spread across the foot rest portion as well, since there wouldn't be any bracing there -- you might not even be able to have a footrest, as it'd probably be too weak on its own.

Wired in series as 12 ohms is the way to go, or have two sets of three in parallel, then those sets wired in series for 6 ohms. Most receivers/amps should be able to handle 6 ohms no problem. You are correct that there will just be less power going to the shakers with higher resistance (ohms) -- due to circuitry/power handling in amps being limited, they have minimum resistances that they can handle, which should be indicated in the owner's manual. Ideal is to have maximum power available to the shakers, and adjust gain down to a comfortable level.

UnknownShadow,

The single layer of MDF most likely would not work very well since it is not perfectly rigid, and thus would dampen the effect of the shakers (especially since the standard Auras are not very powerful).

Ok, then I'll probably scratch that idea and mount them directly to the front sofa. As for the regular Aura's not being very powerful, do you think I'd get away with only 2 for the riser and 2 for the sofa? Or should I do 3 each. Or even 4 each. I don't want overkill, just a little shaking action to go with the bass.

The more, the better, since it will spread out the shaking and seem less artificial. Depending on the size of the riser, I personally would go with more than 4 (and isolate it from the floor). Maybe one in between each joist or so.

The more, the better, since it will spread out the shaking and seem less artificial. Depending on the size of the riser, I personally would go with more than 4 (and isolate it from the floor). Maybe one in between each joist or so.

What exactly do you mean by isolating it from the floor? My riser is about 7' x 5' x 16". It is framed out with 2x4 and finished top/sides/front with 3/4 "good one side" plywood. The back is left open for storage. It is fully carpeted and weighs a freakin' ton! So the bottom of my riser has carpet on it and it sits on my carpeted floor. Is that considered isolated from the floor?

I think I'm just gonna order 6 and experiment with 3 in the front sofa and 3 in the rear riser. I'm sure there are different ways to mount them to reduce localization rather than plastering the entire riser with them?

Oh yeah, check my gallery for a few pics.

By isolating it, I mean use rubber isolators such as this:
Rubber isolator

(Just a rough idea of one, it wouldn't necessarily have to be of that type)

Those lift the riser off the floor. Putting it on two layers of carpet will still send a lot of the transducing effect through the carpet layers and lose the effect. The more isolated it can be, the more efficient it is. The more efficient it is, the less shakers and power you have to send it, in general.

I couldn't tell from your gallery, but what do you mean by having the back completely open? Did you only attach the joists on one end (the front of the riser)? There's no way I'd leave it like that.. it's not structurally sound just sitting there, much less if it's intentionally being shaken. Forget about the storage space and make it solid. (You won't be able to isolate the riser from the floor without two ends being supported anyway). Also, you don't need carpet on the bottom of the riser, and in fact it's just getting in the way.

Since you have quite a bit of this already done, I can imagine you're hesitant to change things around. But if you actually want it to be done "right" (or at least much closer to it, as I am certainly not infallible), it'd be worth it to make the above changes. I hope that helps..

By isolating it, I mean use rubber isolators such as this:
Rubber isolator

(Just a rough idea of one, it wouldn't necessarily have to be of that type)

Those lift the riser off the floor. Putting it on two layers of carpet will still send a lot of the transducing effect through the carpet layers and lose the effect. The more isolated it can be, the more efficient it is. The more efficient it is, the less shakers and power you have to send it, in general.

I couldn't tell from your gallery, but what do you mean by having the back completely open? Did you only attach the joists on one end (the front of the riser)? There's no way I'd leave it like that.. it's not structurally sound just sitting there, much less if it's intentionally being shaken. Forget about the storage space and make it solid. (You won't be able to isolate the riser from the floor without two ends being supported anyway). Also, you don't need carpet on the bottom of the riser, and in fact it's just getting in the way.

Since you have quite a bit of this already done, I can imagine you're hesitant to change things around. But if you actually want it to be done "right" (or at least much closer to it, as I am certainly not infallible), it'd be worth it to make the above changes. I hope that helps..

Oh don't worry, it's structurally sound. I'm just not explaining myself properly. Picture it this way... I basically framed out four "walls" with 2x4. The "walls" are 16" high and about 7' long with studs every 16 inches. Just like a regular wall except only 16" high. I then placed these "walls" in a row about 20 inches apart to form the shape of my riser. I then screwed them together with 1" strapping to hold it all together while I screwed the 3/4" plywood to it.

I left the bottom of the riser open so that only the bottom of the 2x4 walls would rest on my carpet. But I then decided to staple thin 3" strips of carpet to the bottom of the 2x4's so it would make it easier to slide the riser around if I needed to. Otherwise I would have bare 2x4 scraping on my carpet when I tried to push it around. Mush easier to slide with "carpet on carpet".

The 3/4 plywood is screwed to the top, front and sides. I left the back and bottom open. I'll try to post another couple of pics to my gallery now.

In any case, thanks for all the info. Bottom line is that I'll just have to order in a few Aura's and start playing to see how I like it.

Ah, well that makes a bit more sense now. That's better than having the entire bottom being carpet and absorbing it. It's probably borderline how well it will work, but the good news is you can mount the shakers and try it, and if it's not up to your liking, then add the rubber isolators later.

Ah, well that makes a bit more sense now. That's better than having the entire bottom being carpet and absorbing it. It's probably borderline how well it will work, but the good news is you can mount the shakers and try it, and if it's not up to your liking, then add the rubber isolators later.

HOLY CRAP! I just received my new HSU VTF3-MKII subwoofer a few days ago and I've been smiling like a kid in a candy store ever since. But I've been listening to it from my main seating position which is the front couch.

Today I went back and flopped down in my back couch (the one on the riser) to see what the bass sounded like back there and I couldn't believe how much tactile feel I was getting from the VTF3!!! It was like the entire riser was on hydraulics or something. It was like the entire room was shaking and falling apart. WOW!!!

This is sounding better and better. If the VTF3 can cause this much rumbling from about 15 feet away then I can't wait to screw a few shakers to the bottom of this thing. And I'll definitely be finding a way to build a small riser for the front sofa as well. Rumblin' risers is the way to go!!!

Parts Express has the Aura pros for $39 each. Is this a low price, or the normal going rate?

For pros, that's pretty much the going rate. Standards are $28/pair and that's been the going rate as well.

I have a question, when splitting the LFE signal from the subwoofer out to the powered subwoofer and to the amp that powers the shakers, does this weaken the signal going to the subwoofer. I have my main receiver set to +10 for the LFE, will the signal be reduced or not at all?

Thanks

By isolating it, I mean use rubber isolators such as this:
Rubber isolator
Where are people buying these? Is this an affordable source? Since there's no pricing on that site, only an RFQ, I'm assuming they are geared more towards volume purchases (?). I have a sofa & loveseat, and what I'd like to do is simply replace the stock feet with these.

Partsexpress sells isolators.

Yep, that's a much better source -- I didn't think to search there.. just searched google images for one so he could get an idea of what I was talking about.

hmm... just got my regular shakers from PartsExpress and I thought there were wires already installed on the regular shakers with those strange connectors at the end? My shakers have NO wires on them at all. First thing I have to do is remove the screws from all of them and solder some speaker wire to them!? What a pain!

Is that normal? My shakers were also in a plain white box, I thought the box was red? They also look like they were slapped together by someone in grade 3. Hard looking devices!

Hopefully the experience is worth it. Oh yeah, I also got nailed $61CDN at the border for bringing 6 of them into Canada. Gotta love customs.

Sounds like customs swapped out the real shakers for some imposters :)

Seriously though, you shouldn't have to do any soldering since the shakers are *supposed* to have wire leads already connected. I would call PartsExpress and see if you got a bad batch or something.

My shakers came in a retail-looking box with the product photo on the outside. Same regular version as yours, not the Pro version.

Sounds like customs swapped out the real shakers for some imposters :)

Seriously though, you shouldn't have to do any soldering since the shakers are *supposed* to have wire leads already connected. I would call PartsExpress and see if you got a bad batch or something.

My shakers came in a retail-looking box with the product photo on the outside. Same regular version as yours, not the Pro version.

When you say "wire leads" do you mean about 6 or 8 inches of wire already connected to each shaker? Mine only have a round hole in the side and what looks like 2 pins that you have to connect wire to. I guess you could just crimp or twist the wire into the pins but you definitely have to take them apart for that.

Do all regular Aura's have to be taken apart to install the speaker wire? This sucks.

No, you got some definite B-stock on those. All standard Auras should have two wires about 6-8" long (as you said) already connected, and you just mount the shaker using the four screws, and attach your speaker wire to the existing wires. They also shouldn't look like a 3rd grader put them together -- mine look very retail and professional (just like the picture on PE.com), and also come in a retail box, as Jeremy mentioned.

I'd contact PE about it ASAP and find out what happened.

My regular Parts Express shakers, which shipped a month or two ago, are just as Jeremey describes: about six inches of wire already connected, coming out of the hole, with spade connectors attached at the ends. There were even the matching female spade connectors thrown in the box for me to attach to my wire. Also got a retail looking box. You should not have to take them apart to attach the wiring.

My regular Parts Express shakers, which shipped a month or two ago, are just as Jeremey describes: about six inches of wire already connected, coming out of the hole, with spade connectors attached at the ends. There were even the matching female spade connectors thrown in the box for me to attach to my wire. Also got a retail looking box. You should not have to take them apart to attach the wiring.

Well I am NOT impressed with PartsExpress. I just called and they said this was a "buyout" item and they do ship in white boxes (not retail) and you have to take them apart to solder the wires.

I assume this is like what you guys got...
http://paulinfamily.dyndns.org:6080/~marc/aura.htm

Well here is what I got...
http://www.mi.mun.ca/~bball/

I will never again order anything from PartsExpress. That was my first and last time. I don't like being deceived.

That's incredibly lame. I purchased mine about 9 months ago and it was still referred to as a buyout back then. Maybe they've finally just switched over and gotten rid of the last decent stock and are selling these now. It'd be interesting to see if anyone else in the future mentions receiving them in this condition as well.

Yes Shadow, the ones I have (and many others as it sounds like) are the retail box versions.

I was planning on ordering some more but I won't now that they have switched to the low-quality versions. I'm surprised at their attitude considering that they are usually accomodating about returns and such. It sucks even more that you had to pay customs fees on something that wasn't what you expected to get.

I'm now using a Audiosource Amp One to power my shakers. Is it better to Y out from the reciever to the sub and the amp..... or a single line out to the amp and then out from the amp to the sub? Thanks.

Here is your mystery solved.

The "Standard" Shakers as discribed that Parts Express seem to be selling are indeed "Buyouts" that came from a OEM account that was using them as Actuators for Video Game accessories..., both a Video Chair and Wearable Vest. For some time, the Jobber that has been trying to get rid of them has had them listed for sale in Bulk Quantities on Ebay, Ubid, and other Web outlests. Right down to the "White" Box they shipped in because of the lack of need for packaging. at least that Gent discribed them as such, even including a photo of the unit and White Box.

I have my finger on the pulse of the supply of ALL Auras on sale everywhere, since I's a be a you'sin 'em at the rate of about 50-60 a month. Mostly the "Pros" ya know, but this was to good a deal not to "jump on".

Obviously, Parts Express, having sold many "Standards" in the past and seeing the increased demand, jumped on a deal too. Too bad.

I just purchased an entire Factory Sealed box of 16 Standards, specifically for a new installation, from a EBay seller. They all came in Factory Sealed packaging, with attached Leads and the accompanying Hardware. But I guess they do not count, for the seller (...a 5-Star rated Ebayer) has had them for awhile. The original Packing slip was still on the outside of the Aura Factory Shipping carton, dated October, 1999. :eek:

I got the 16 for $190.00. That's $11.88 each. :eek: :eek:

Yeah, I know. I got lucky. Next lowest price I could find Online was $38.00 Pr.

Below is the installation they went into. 8 in a 14' x 6' Platform. 8 "in De Floor" The total wiring configuration was;

2 ea. Paralled to 2 Ohms, then two pairs of two Seriesed to 4 Ohms (5 Ohms nominal) There are 4 Channels as described, each "Pair" of Channels to be driven by NAD Stereo "Main" Amp @ 100 watts x 2

We all don'ta be a' messin round down yar in Mississippi, all ya all. ;)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Home%20Theater%20Installations/AWellHeeledPlatform.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Home%20Theater%20Installations/AWellSkinnedPlatform.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Home%20Theater%20Installations/ac16ccb7.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Home%20Theater%20Installations/57a74a2d.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Home%20Theater%20Installations/eb0859c2.jpg

Der's a'gonna be sum thunder down yarbouts in da pretty neer fewtur. :cool:

I'm now using a Audiosource Amp One to power my shakers. Is it better to Y out from the reciever to the sub and the amp..... or a single line out to the amp and then out from the amp to the sub? Thanks.

I've found that by using the "In-Out" on a Audio Source, you can experiance a "Hum" when the output level on the Audio Source unit is set at any position other than 12 o'clock. Strange stuff, and probably due to a "potentiometer" issue that is feeding back into the pre-amp stage. I've since stopped using AS Amps in that manner for exactly for that reason.

Best to Y-Outm and by doinmg so, you make each LFE system a seperate entity.

In Fact, on a recent system using TWO 1000 watt Outlaw Floor Standing Subs (KAAAA_THUUUMMMPPP!) and 16 Aura Pros in a "Platform / Floor" configuration, I used a Y into a Y into a Y with no problems.

But's that's me.

Here is your mystery solved.

The "Standard" Shakers as discribed that Parts Express seem to be selling are indeed "Buyouts" that came from a OEM account that was using them as Actuators for Video Game accessories..., both a Video Chair and Wearable Vest. For some time, the Jobber that has been trying to get rid of them has had them listed for sale in Bulk Quantities on Ebay, Ubid, and other Web outlests. Right down to the "White" Box they shipped in because of the lack of need for packaging. at least that Gent discribed them as such, even including a photo of the unit and White Box.


Thanks for the info MM. PartsExpress assured me that taking them apart and soldering wire to them will NOT void the warranty and they still carry full warranty. But I am not impressed. Even if they work fine I'm still annoyed that they haven't updated their website saying you have to take them apart and solder/crimp the wire.

Luckily I have the tools and moderate skills to do this but for many people they will need to go out and buy a soldering iron and accessories and/or crimping tools. This is very deceiving by PartsExpress.

In any case, I spent a couple of hours last night taking apart my 6 Aura's, stripping wire, soldering etc and they are now ready to be installed. I just have to find a cheap amp to power them. I'm also out of town next week so it may be a while before I get a chance to test these.

Here's the response from PartsExpress...

- - -

"So very sorry you did not get the product you expected. Let me give you some background on that item. We bought it as a surplus buyout. Our customers LOVE buyouts and we shop for them regularly. Typically, once a buyout runs out of stock, we discontinue the item since we don't have a regular source/supplier for it. The Aura Bass Shakers was an especially huge hit. We searched for another buyout and found one. We latest buyout did not have the wires so we re-shot the photograph for # 299-027 as you can see on our site.

Please know that you may return your purchase for a merchandise refund, within 45 days from the date of your invoice."

- - -

I still think they should post a big *UPDATE* notice of some type directly on the page for that item. Not just re-shoot the photo. Most people will still be expecting the retail boxed version.

In any case, I am not returning mine and losing the $61CDN I paid for tax/customs at the border. I will give them a shot. I will post my results once I have mine setup. The speaker wire is soldered to them but I don't have an amp yet to try them out.

By the time I buy a cheap amp this little experiment will have cost me about $300CDN. That's for 6 regular shakers, a 2-pack of fmods and an amp. Don't be too fast to say this is a "cheap" no-brainer upgrade.

Best to Y-Outm and by doinmg so, you make each LFE system a seperate entity.
.

Thanks, MM. Does Y'ing the signal out lessen it's impact? Or is the reciever still sending it's full signal to both entities?

Also, a tech from Audiosource told me told me that if using the in/out on the amp (and passing through to the sub) that it would still be better to Y the signal out to the amp. That way it would use both the L and R inputs on the amp. He said while some disagree with him he feels that it would be more beneficial. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks.

Turned out my receiver had two 'sub outs' so I ran one to the sub and one to the amp.What a difference! I tested it out on U-571 (Chapter 15) and it was unbelievable! Then for the hell of it, I ran one line out from my receiver to the amp and passed it through out of my amp to the sub and it ended up being just a little bit better! Next I'm going to try what the Audiosource tech said and Y INTO the amp's L & R and see if I notice a difference. But passing it through seems to be the better way to go....and I didn't get any "hum" like MM got when he did it.

Has anyone mounted these on top of padding? I am in the middle of my bass shaker project. I've alread mounted the ones that go in the loveseat, but my sofa is a much bigger challenge: it's a hide-a-bed. I don't have any good spaces to mount them inside that I had in the loveseat. I do have some very good strong structural places that I could mount them on the back of the sofa. It's against a wall anyway, so they wouldn't be seen, and my sofa/loveseat are about 15 years old, so the honeymoon with them is over. Still, if it didn't impede performance, I'd rather just screw through the leather, than cut a big patch of it out so I could mount the shakers directly to the wood. There is about 1/4" of spongey stuff underneath the leather to give it a padded feel, so if I screwed the shakers to the sofa without first removing the sponge/leather, there'd be some padding in between the shaker & the plywood beneath. I do know from mounting the shakers in the loveseat that the mounting plate of the shakers actually bend a little when you screw them down, due to the cork padding that's already in place in the middle of the shakers. So I expect that if I mounted the shakers on top of th leather, the four corners of the baseplate would probably bend down enough that at those points, the leather/sponge would be so compressed, it wouldn't really affect the coupling of the shaker to the sofa at those points. And since the force of the shakers is actually transmitted from the circumference of the shaker "top" to the plate, most of the force would be acted near the screw holes anyway, NOT near the center of the shaker where I'd be most concerned about the padding having any affect.

Opinions?

Gowwwwleee. Ya's posted yesterday in the AM 'n got no response?

No one cares to offer 'n opinion? well's I's will.

Yeah. Your out of luck. (.....maybe, see below...)

With Tactiles, there is a fine point where too loose a connection and they will rattle horribly due to both the actuator inside rebounding excessisively, and becuase there is too little transfer of the kenitic energy into the mass. Reversly speaking, too tight and they won't "shake" at all, and are at risk of being blown because of "Less" travel, resulting in a buildup of energy/heat an the coil at a defined spot.

Padding between the Tactile's striker plate and the 'to be resonated' surface is completely freckless.

"Spittin' in your Post Toasties" am I? We'ze got no manners down yar 'n Miss'ippi.

But we'ze gota nudder idear dat mite werk..

You could try this. Take a large, cut to the maximum allowablw size, sheet of 3/4" Plywood, and using an adaquate amont of 2" corse threaded screws, afix the sheet to the back of the couch. Then attach the tactiles to that. The addtion of the large "Plate", firmlY depressing the 'padding' over a large area to a much denser 'thinness', should distribute to the couch/bed's mass far more energy than the Tactile ever could 'locally', even if you could get the compression level between the tactle and the padding just so.

Of course, if you were to try your first suggested application and get lousy results, the latter suggestion is always still available. I wouldn't bother though, because it just seems something that someone would go off and do because they can, not because it makes sense.

The most sensible thing of all that you did was asking for an opinion first.

Hence, the beauty of this Forum, Thread, and the contributors awaiting to respond.

......well, some of us ain't sew beeyewteeful, but we does respond. ;)

No one cares to offer 'n opinion? well's I's will.
But sadly, too late. ;) I already attached them directly on top of the padding. they seem to be coupled fine... if let my hand cover both the shaker & couch, the shakers don't seem to be shaking independantly from the couch. The whole things seems to vibrate as one. I would think that if there was some play between the shaker & the couch, I could feel the shaker moving more than the couch. There was, however, one fatality: one of the base plats cracked right at the point where the screw goes through. Even with just three screws holding it in, I can't tell that it's not firmly held in place, but I probably won't leave it like that. I may get another shaker, but before I do, I'll take the shaker off of it's plate and see if I can drill another hole through the base plate inside of the shaker body. If I can, I may go ahead & do that to all of the ones that are mounted that way, just to give them even better anchoring.

I do have one problem though: My sofa has 8 shakers, and they are all wired into sets of three in series (then paralleled in two sets, giving me two 6 ohm loads). In the sofa, there are three on the back at the far right, three on the back at the far left, and two inside (wired to a third in the loveseat). The three on the left are producing SIGNIFICANTLY less output. I'd say less than half. I know it's not a problem with one of them being blown since they are wired in series and do provide SOME output (well, it could be shorted I guess, but that seems unlikely). The two banks of three are mounted in a straight line one next to another: if one was out of phase, I could see the output reducing to about one third, since two of them would be cancelling each other out. But they are all wired correctly, at least based on the copper/silver & large/small spade lugs. So the question is, has anyone ever had a case where these were wired backwards internally? I'll try & take these apart later today to see if I can visually tell if that's the case. I guess another method would be to take them all off of their bases, but leave them hooked up electrically, and just hold them back to back. That should cause them to cancel out, so if any one is backwards, it would cause force when coupled backwards withthe other two.

<sigh> These things never go smoothly.

So I saw in a few other threads people talking about 'shakers' installed in their chairs, and I had never heard of such a thing. Naturally it got me curious, and some searching dropped me in this thread.

Living in an apartment, my subwoofer is generally cut way back for the benefit of the downstairs neighbor. Would these bass shakers be a good way of getting more perceived bass response out of a movie, or would I just have a vibrating chair that seemed completely odd without the subwoofer backing it up?

Also, attaching these to the frame of a loveseat / chair that is sitting on hardwood floors, is it going to transfer vibrations to the floor, or is that something I could isolate with floor pads?

I love discovering new technology that I didn't know I needed. ;)

Yes the shakers will help with perceived bass response, especially the lower 20-50Hz material. The shaking would be weird if you had no subwoofer at all, but if you've got something there to complement them even at lower volume it should be ok. If you have your subwoofer crossover above 80Hz you would probably want to get an FMod to cut out the higher frequencies from reaching the shaker amplifier--otherwise it will feel too much like buzzing and not like shaking.

About the isolation, it's probably just something that you will have to try and see if there is vibration with the floor. I've heard good success stories with pads so that may be the way for you to go if there is a problem.

Great, looks like I have a project for next weekend! And here I was sitting around wondering what to do with the Onkyo 4 channel receiver I recently decomissioned.

Regarding isolation: I found I was a bit disappointed with the shakers out of the box: the seemed to reproduce too much audible bass - the frequencies my sub should be handling, and not enough infrasonic information that can't otherwise be heard. It just didn't seem natural having those frequencies coming through my butt. Since I had a spare channel on my BFD, I did some HEAVY equalization. The majority of their output now starts around 25-30hz, and increases as you go down, with the maximum impact being felt between 15-20hz. I also added a lot of isolation. What I've found is, the isolation didn't really help their performance much in the 30-40hz range where they seemed to peak before equalization, but it made a HUGE difference in the really low frequencies. Before, I just had my loveseat with stock feet sitting on carpet (with padding under neath), which did an ok job for the upper frequencies, but didn't give it enough compliance to really move at the excursion needed for the low frequencies. But even if you didn't equalize, I would think hard floors would transmit a lot of the energy, regardless of the frequency.

As far as the problems I had earlier...

On the one side of the sofa that had low output, believe it or not, one of the shakers WAS out of phase, as wired from the factory. I took the three shakers on that end off of their mounting plate, and gave them a low frequency test tone. Holding one shaker in each hand, with them both vibrating, if I would touch them together back to back (so the labels were touching), the ones that were correct would magically stop vibrating as soon as you touched them: having them facing in opposite directions caused their vibrations to cancel each other out. It was a pretty neat trick, you don't even have to press them together tightly. It's like they just magically stop vibrating as soon as they touch. One of them, however, would continue vibrating when touched to either of the other two. The short leads that come pre-attached to the shakers was installed correctly: inside the mounting hole, they are soldered to a very small PC board that apparently then has the actual voice coil wire attached to it. In all three, the negative and positive were on the same side. Yet, one of them was out of phase, so it has to be the actual voice coil wire that was attached incorrectly (or the magnet was installed upside down). I just wired that shaker out of phase on my end, to get it back in phase. First problem solved.

But once I had all three of those shakers off of their bases, I realized not one, but ALL THREE bases had at least one crack from me over-tightening them on a not completely flat surface. The bases are not very thick/strong at the little wings where the screws go through. So while I had the guts of the shakers taken off of the couch, I re-drilled new holes in the bases, and screwed new screws in. My new holes are in a location in the base that makes them inside of the shaker once the cover is put back on. The advantage here is that the base is much thicker at that point.

Then I went to put the shakers back on their bases, and the first one I could not, for the life of me, get all the screws to thread through the cover and into the threaded holes in the base. I figured my new holes caused the base to warp enough so that the screws could not reach the threads in the base. After spending way too much time trying to resolve that, I finally realized that this shaker, the first of the three that I was trying to mount back on the couch, was slightly different than the other two. Despite being the exact same model, ordered with all the other shakers I got, it was slightly taller, and had screws that were about 1/4" longer than the others. I was simply trying to re-attach it with screws from the other shakers (I put them all in one pile when I disassembled them, assuming they were all the same. :rolleyes: Upon closer inspection, I also had a cracked base in one of three on the other side (couldn't get one of the covers off, so I let it be). The end result, now I have decent output on both the sofa & the loveseat!

Anyway, the moral here is, don't over-tighten when screwing the shakers down, especially on not completely flat surfaces, and if you have the option, check the phase of each shaker before actually wiring them up. Hopefully this will save someone else all the time I spent this am. Now I have to clean up this huge mess I've made. :)

I'm in the process of pre wiring before the carpet is installed. I will have 3 chairs with one shaker per chair in front of a platform and 3 chairs with one shaker per chair on the platform. How much speaker wire should I run to the 3 chairs in front and how much should I run to the back chairs? Also, How would I hook up these to an old receiver?

If it were me, and I was hooking up six shakers to a stereo receiver, I'd just run one wire from one channel of the receiver to one row of chairs, and another wire from the other channel of the receiver to the other row of chairs, and at each row, wire all three drivers in series for 12 ohms per channel.

Could you please explain in a little more detail. Thanks

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Business%20Photos%20to%20send/Einstien.gif

Here you go.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Business%20Photos%20to%20send/3TactilesinSeries.jpg

..........and here's more for the bargain.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Business%20Photos%20to%20send/ParallelSeriesDiagram.jpg

Think of each row as a speaker. For example, you could connect two conductor speaker cable to the "L" terminals on your receiver, and bring it to the first row, and do the same for the "R" terminals to the back row. But once you got to the actual transducers, you'd connect them in series. By that, I mean, you'd connect the positive lead from your speaker wire to the positive terminal of the 1st transducer. The negative terminal of that transducer would get connected to the positive terminal of the 2nd transducer, and the negative terminal of that one gets connected to the positive of the 3rd transducer. The negative of the third gets connected directly to the negative of your wire coming from the receiver. In other words, in series wiring, the current does a loop from the one terminal or your amp through each transducer before returning to the other terminal. Repeat for the other row connected to the other channel.

EDIT: LOL, or just look at the nice pictures provided above. :)

Hello friends!!!

Ok, I have to admit, after going blind looking through this thread I still seem to be a bit confused. I am about to prewire (riser) for my Aura Pro's, and I have a few questions, if you don't mind ^_^:

First, I'm looking at getting 5 Aura Pro's, will this amp be acceptable?:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-794

Also, what gauge wire should I use? I was thinking 12...

Should I wire these in parallel using above amp?

Sorry for bothering you guys with the same old questions!

Thanks for your time!

Get either 6 or 4 shakers, not 5 if possible. There's no good way to wire up 5 shakers and shake them evenly.

That amp will work great -- others here have had success with it, and it's perfect for shakers.

12 gauge wire will be fine.. even 14-16 would work as well for the application too.

Wiring in parallel vs series will depend how many actual shakers you get (as I said, I wouldn't get 5). If you get 6, you can wire three in parallel (2 sets), then wire those in series for a 6 ohm, even load across the shakers.

So I saw in a few other threads people talking about 'shakers' installed in their chairs, and I had never heard of such a thing. Naturally it got me curious, and some searching dropped me in this thread.


I have an SVS PB2-Plus subwoofer and just bought the ButtKicker system (3 of the amps and 2 LFE units, more LFE's on the way). I installed the first LFE unit in the bottom of the recliner section of our sofa. I bolted it to a 1x5 piece of oak that I used to bridge across the frame. It was tricky finding just the right spot so the LFE (shaker) unit would not interfere with the recliner's "mechanics" in all of the various positions that the chair can be positioned in. When I fired up Master and Commander, I felt the same eye opening experience that I felt when I fired up the PB2-Plus for the first time. The ButtKicker is worth every penny. Properly mounted, it truly does add another dimension. My next step will be D-Box Motion Theater system. However, the D-Box is a little pricey ($5K+) compared to a ButtKicker amp and 2 LFE's that can be had for under $800.

For a maximun ButtKickin', I would advise mounting the unit to the frame of the chair or reliner as close to the seat structure as possible. I would not mount it on the "chair platform" which sits under the leg. Make the transfer path of the vibration as short and direct as possible to minimize transmission loss.

Several months ago I bought (from PE) a subwoofer amp and 6 bass shakers (standard) to use in my HT. I was going to use 3 in the chairs in the first row, and 3 in the riser I was going to build behind the first row (my ceiling is too low for a riser in the front row). Upon consideration, I've decided not to build a 2nd row, we can easily get 3-5 people in the first row (by moving a rocker over) and I can use the space behind the 1st row for a bike trainer. Anyhow, if I have 3 reclining chairs in the first row, would adding 2 kickers per be a bad thing? Seems OK to me, I'd just dial it down a bit.

I'm not saying I'll do this, I still may end up with a rear riser, but perhaps not for awhile.

Bob

For a maximun ButtKickin', I would advise mounting the unit to the frame of the chair or reliner as close to the seat structure as possible. I would not mount it on the "chair platform" which sits under the leg. Make the transfer path of the vibration as short and direct as possible to minimize transmission loss.

Sounds like good advice. I inspected the bottom of our love seat, and there is a solid wood frame around the bottom, but this is relatively far away from any butts that happen to be sitting. Apparently I'm going to have to do some surgery and possibly add some wood to the frame to get them closer.

Luckily the shakers are coming tomorrow when the girlfriend is at nightclass, so she won't catch me razoring open the bottom of our couch.

For a maximun ButtKickin', I would advise mounting the unit to the frame of the chair or reliner as close to the seat structure as possible. I would not mount it on the "chair platform" which sits under the leg. Make the transfer path of the vibration as short and direct as possible to minimize transmission loss.
This is exactly the opposite of what I would recommend. Think about a T-Rex approaching in Jurassic Park.. do you want your butt to vibrate because the couch is shaking, or do you want the "whole floor" (as far as you're concerned, since you're on a riser) to rumble? The direct path is a nice concept if you didn't have the ability to just add more shakers and power, to get the same effect, yet less localized (which should be the goal).

This is exactly the opposite of what I would recommend. Think about a T-Rex approaching in Jurassic Park.. do you want your butt to vibrate because the couch is shaking, or do you want the "whole floor" (as far as you're concerned, since you're on a riser) to rumble? The direct path is a nice concept if you didn't have the ability to just add more shakers and power, to get the same effect, yet less localized (which should be the goal).

Since my feet are on the foot rest of the recliner (I hardly ever watch video sitting up), and my reliner is not on a riser or platform, I really don't see "floor shake" versus "butt shake" being an issue. My LFE unit is mounted to the recliner frame in a way that shakes the entire frame of the chair uniformly. I feel the same intensity of movement from head to toe. So I would reason that this would be the same sensation felt if the chair were on top of a riser that had an LFE mounted to it. I would imagine that if someone were to mount an LFE on a chair or recliner in a way that the vibrations were transferred directly to the cushion (bypassing the frame) then you would have isolated "butt shake." Butt in my case the mechanics of my set up do not favor any paricular body part and do not feel directional in any discernable way. I will admit that when my feet are on the floor and the chair is shaking, the realism of the ButtKicker system is dimished slightly. However, this in not unlike the effect of a subwoofer, which doesn't shake the (concrete slab on grade) floor. I would suggest the D-Box system if you REALLY want to feel your are about to become a T-Rex snack. Of course, it is much more $.

Risers aren't really practical for me. But when I mounted my shakers, I did my best to mount them to the heaviest, most structural part of the sofa & loveseat, not necessarily the part closest to me. The hope being that the entire thing would shake as one, as opposed to some localized vibration within the furniture. While I certainly understand the benefit of having as much of your surroundings as possible involved in the shaking, I can't say that I've yet consciously noticed that my feet aren't getting the shake. I've not experienced a system with risers... I can't think of any friends who's "home theater" is any more than the stereo speakers mounted in their 32" TV. So perhaps I don't know what I'm missing. It's probably for the best.

...I did my best to mount them to the heaviest, most structural part of the sofa & loveseat, not necessarily the part closest to me. The hope being that the entire thing would shake as one, as opposed to some localized vibration within the furniture.

I think your reasoning is sound and would seem to be a good guideline for mounting the LFE units. Pick a location that provides a uniform and non-directional sensation to all parts of the listener as equally as possible. Experiement and find the solution you like best.

Man, I really shouldn't have bought four of these things. I just did a test hook up with one and it was like my apartment was on a fault line or something. My neigbors are going to burn me at the stake.

If you isolate your love seat legs from the floor, you can shake all you want and they'll never know.. :)

What do you think would be the best way to go about that, keeping in mind that I can't do any permenant construction? The little felt pads that keep it from scratching the wood floor will probably burst into flames once I get all these things wired up and bolted on.

What a disappointing morning! I have already mounted 12 shakers, some on my couch, and some on my loveseat. Since I'm using some significant equalization to force them into operating more in the infrasonic range, I thought I'd add just four more to give me just a little more headroom, as I can reach their excursion limits if I push them. I had seen the previous post mentioning how the latest batch of shakers were a little different than the more "retail" versions that I had gotten previously, but didn't mind having to attach wires to only four of them.

Now that I've got them, and have started taking them apart to add the wires, I see there are more differences than just the lack of wire leads. Physically, the cases are slightly smaller in diameter, and a bit taller. Also, they have rather thick foam on the bottom of them, instead of relatively thin cork. Seems rather counterproductive, since the instructions suggest mounting against any type of padding. Also, while the base is still aluminum, the round cover is steel. Seems like that could adverselyl affect performance, since steel is magnetic. But the most concerning difference is in the spider: my "retail" shakers have a plastic spider, while these white box versions have phenolic (like circuit board material). It's much stiffer.

Here is a picture (http://home.comcast.net/~dscline/Shared/shakers.jpg) comparing the the removed voice coil of the white box version, and the bottom of the top of the retail version (the voice coil is glued into the cover in that version, so it can't easily be taken out). You can see that the retail spider is a molded plastic, while the white box is cut phenolic.

I went ahead and started with my project of adding them to my furniture. Since these were constructed a little differently, I was concerned about the phase being the same as my current shakers, especially considering I had inadvertantly discovered one of my previous shakers was out of phase anyway, even though it was the same as the others. So I proceeded to remove one of my existing shakers so I could test phase the way I mentioned in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6287522&&#post6287522). The first thing that became apparent right away was the new shakers had about half the force of my older ones. That spider is just too stiff. You could even tell visually just by watching the magnet move. In fact, due to the difference in force, it was hard to use my phase test to compare phase: they don't cancel each other out when touched together back to back, since the force isn't equal. It took a quite a while to even figure out which way the phase was, but I did eventually figure out that the white box versions are opposite phase as the retail versions. Close inspection of the voice coil shows that the reason is because the voice coil/magnet assembly is installed upside down compared to the retail version.

So I had discovered what I set out to discover: I knew which way to wire them since they are phased opposite, but in the end, I decided to not even bother installing them. Their force is so low, I didn't feel that they would add enough to make it worthwhile. Now I need to see if parts express will take these back... if not, I guess I'll put them in some chairs or something. :(


What do you think would be the best way to go about that, keeping in mind that I can't do any permenant construction? The little felt pads that keep it from scratching the wood floor will probably burst into flames once I get all these things wired up and bolted on.
What kind of feet do you have now?

Thanks for the post Darin. That definitely cleared up the differences between the retail versions and the white box versions.

Those new ones you got look almost identical to the ones that I pulled out of aura interactor vests a couple of years a go. I have 10 in total and hooked them up to a love seat and a chair. They shook well enough (Haven't compared them to the retail which are larger and can handle more power) for the price, and I used the original amps that came with them. The way that worked for me was I cut out a hole with a large enough in diamter to place the shaker in the middle using a pine board. I then screwed the boards to the love seat.

I'm much happier with my buttkickers though... different level of tactile experience, as everyone knows..

Haven't compared them to the retail which are larger and can handle more power
Just to be clear, I am NOT comparing to the "pro" versions. I'm simply comparing the basic "retail" version to the white box version of supposedly the same thing. The power rating is the same. Based on an earlier post in this thread, it appears that even the pro versions use the same guts, but are rated higher simply because the finned housing dissipates heat better. I'd guess they all have the same, or similar, voice coils, but the housings, and spiders, vary. I even have a retail shaker that has a housing that is slightly different from the other ones.

All that is true, but the reason the "White Box" units came onto the market as they did was because the O.E.M. product they were involved with was a decided bust. At first, the "Vests" & "Shakers" were sold complete, and had to be seperated as ShepP related. Not a lot of takers on that proposition. So some industrious soul bought up the bulk from the first person, removed and repackaged them, and offered them up on EBay again, but without much if any explination. Still they did not sell, so good 'ol PE bought 'em up and did exactly the same thing.

Such "Values" are risky in the least. At the prices the Factory -offs go for, it's not really all too sensible to try to save $5-8.00 per unit and risk all the fabrication necessary, or put up with the poor design. Get 'em for under $12.00 ea and maybe......, that might be worthwhile. Maybe.

And FYI, no matter what has been said previously, the "Pros" do perform better. The lower profile and denser casing design augments the transfer of resonant energy better than the "Can" design. Less energy is absorbed and wasted into the casing's mass. The Fins? Well, I've driven the Pros long and hard, perhaps harder than almost anybody, and I've never felt them so much as warm up. The Standards can get downright "Toasty Hot" and when they do, they can pop at a transient's notice.

The Standards will also "Feed back" resonance more easily, creating a "Rattle" due to excessive travel within the "Can" ...., unless you screw them down too tight, in which case neither type will perform worth a damn at all.

I've just completed another 16 unit install using Pros in Platform & Floor, and will power them with 1 Stereo Amp @ 350 wpc and by delivering 4 - 4 ohm loads to the A/B Inputs.

This install is directly over a Kitchen / Family room Ceiling. Not MY idea, but the Homeowner's only real option for the Floor space needed for a 12 seat theater sporting a 122" LF Screen. The main LFE Bass is provided by 2 Outlaw 250 watt 12" Floor Subs.

This system is the very first time one of my creations could in fact seriously jepordize the structural integrity of of a room and the adjoing structure. Really!

Primarily, the OutLaws themselves can shake the entire room "Loudly" but together, at a significantly lower volume, the room does in fact actually "Shudder" in such a way that it can hardly be adaquately described.

Not the "Bass Enema" most of your experience, but rather a realistic effect that actually frightens the uninitated. :eek:

So I got my four shakers, run in a series/parallel configuration to one of the plate amps from Parts Express. I watched The Two Towers to put them through their paces, and I gotta say it was great. My subwoofer is continusly turned down due to the whole apartment thing, and even the subtle vibration of these things turned down was a huge boost in the movie experience. Especially when the Orcs were marching around.

The psychological impact is great. When you sit on the couch with your feet up on the ottomon, you're entirely convinced that the room is filled with some serious bass. But if you put your feet down on the floor, or to a greater extent stand up, the illusion is gone with the lack of vibrations. They aren't translating to the floor too much at half power, but I noticed if I give these things full they begin to resonate with the metal spring frame under the cushions a lot. I could probably fix that with some dapening foam or something, but I doubt I will be getting them to full power that much anyway.


What kind of feet do you have now?

They are wooden, about an inch and a half in diamter, bolted to the corners of the love seat frame. I was reading in a thread about apartment home theater setup that someone had cut racquet balls in half to help isolate his subwoofer, and was considering giving that a shot. My buddy is a footwear designer, so he also was interested in the problem, given that it isn't much different than isolating a foot in a sneaker. :D

Gowwwwleee. Ya's posted yesterday in the AM 'n got no response?
With Tactiles, there is a fine point where too loose a connection and they will rattle horribly due to both the actuator inside rebounding excessisively, and becuase there is too little transfer of the kenitic energy into the mass. Reversly speaking, too tight and they won't "shake" at all, and are at risk of being blown because of "Less" travel, resulting in a buildup of energy/heat an the coil at a defined spot.
That may be true for voice coil systems (Aura, Clark), but the Buttkicker works wonderfully bolted down tight. The mass is all internal. The thing weighs a lot.

If you coupled it loosely, while you might extend the headroom before knocking (the equivalent of bottoming out on a car, except in this case of the magnetic extension), you will get slushier response from it.

I have no idea whether it would apply to the Crowson, but since that's designed to sit under a leg, it isn't getting bolted anywhere anyhow.

Is it better to have sets of series shakers paralleled together or
sets of paralleled shakers series together?
Does it matter? 6 ohm load for each configuration?
see attachment-thanks

I am sorry for this question as I am sure someone has asked a similar one, but I am at work now and will be leaving early to get the room ready for a party tonight (put the shakers on) and don't have time to read threw all the post.

I have a old sub HT-S15 that has a 200w plate amp. I am going to use it (the plate amp) to run 6 of the 25w shakers. I am pretty sure this amp is fine for my situations. The question I have is what would be the best way to hook all the shakers together (series or parallel) to get the same effect? If someone has a diagram or can give me a link I would be your very best friend :-)

Sorry again for asking this question without going threw the whole thread.

Being a plate amp, I'm assuming it's a single 200w channel? If so, it's easy to wire six four ohm shakers into a single 6 ohm load. 6 ohms should still be an acceptable load to an amp that is spec'd @ 8 ohms, and shouldn't be too much of a power derate for an amp that is spec'd @ 4 ohms. And it just so happens that there's an attachment in the post directly above yours showing two ways to wire 6 shakers into a 6 ohm load. Personally, I don't think it really matters much which of those two ways you do it.

Thanks Darin just before you posted I noticed that. So you don't think you lose or gain anything either way you wire?

I wouldn't expect any operational difference, unless one of the shakers blew (then the remaing would behave differently depending on which way you picked). Personally, I'd pick whichever was most convenient to wire.

I'm finally in the process of wiring up my 6 shakers to an old stereo receiver spec'd @ 8ohms. What would the receiver like more... wire 3 in series to each channel for a 12ohm load or wire all 6 to a single channel for a 6ohm load?

I'd do two channels of 12 ohm loads. Going with a higher impedence might reduce the amp's output (the degree of which depends on the amp itself), but you'd be throwing twice as much amp at it anyway. Chances are, you'll gain more by using both amps than you'd possibly lose through decreased output per channel. It would probably also run cooler that way.

I'd do two channels of 12 ohm loads. Going with a higher impedence might reduce the amp's output (the degree of which depends on the amp itself), but you'd be throwing twice as much amp at it anyway. Chances are, you'll gain more by using both amps than you'd possibly lose through decreased output per channel. It would probably also run cooler that way.

Thanks Darin, that's the route I was planning to try first. Will proceed as planned....

I have a yamaha rx-v1050 that provides 110w + 110w (8 ohm) RMS output power(front), 110w (8 ohm) RMS output power (center), 30w + 30w (8ohm) RMS output power (rear). Does this mean it is capable of 390watts total? I have 8 - 4 ohm, 50 watt shakers doubled up to equate 8 ohms. I have two sets connected in series then in parallel. Will this work? Will I have to turn vol up high for affect? Will I burn out the amp.? I have it hooked up and just tried it on the tuner hooked up only to the L + R front. It shook when volume was turned up to about 3/4 and I could actually hear voices over the shakers. I'm not sure if the LFE would be different but I am wondering if the avr is 110w per chan only and I will be overstressing the amp. Should I be concerned or not? Thanks!
DJ

Well I have 2 Bass Shaker pros on there way to me. I am going to try driving them with an old reciver at first then maybe buy an Amp when I decide to add more.

Any ideas what kind of a Cheap reciver I should look for to drive these?

The Sherwood RX-4103 and RX-4105 (newer version) are very cheap receivers rated @ 105 watts/ch. I've found they have plenty of power for my shaker use (currently 12 total broken up into two 6 ohm channels), and I'm getting response down to 10hz out of them (despite the Sherwood specs that don't claim to go that low). The biggest problem I have with them is that they both re-set the volume to a pre-defined (and uneditable) value that is much lower than what I want. So every time I power cycle my system, I have to bump up the volume on that receiver if I want noticeable shaking.

Well I finally got my shakers mounted tonight and I'm happy to report they work fine. These were the white box versions from PartsExpress and I soldered wire to them myself. A bit more work but the end result is the same.

Now let me say this, anyone who says the regular version does not give enough rumble/force simply needs to mess around a bit more. I have 3 mounted to a HUGE couch and 3 mounted under my back riser which weighs a freakin' ton. And it is more than enough rumble in both cases.

It's about what I expected and definitely adds to the movie experience. I'm not as blown away as some people seem but that's because my HSU VTF3-MKII that I recently bought has already introduced me to the world of tactile bass that you can feel. My room is already shaking from top to bottom. That is one clean and powerful subwoofer!!! But the rumble provided by the shakers goes nicely with the VTF3.

Ok getting 2 Bass shaker pros from "PE" on TUesday. I bought a cheap Insignia 200W Stereo reciever at a local chain to run them on to try it out. I bought it there so I could return it if I feel the need to drive them with something else.

Is it better to drive these shakers with a seperate reciver like the cheap 100watt per channel one I got or get a sub woofer amp from PE to run them?

Right now I will be running 2 pro shakers on 1 channel and will eventually run another 2 pros on the second channel. Would eventually consider adding a 3rd to each channel.

Is it better to drive these shakers with a seperate reciver like the cheap 100watt per channel one I got or get a sub woofer amp from PE to run them?
I also considered a sub amp, but here is the problem I encountered: when digging in to the specs, it seemed that a lot of dedicated sub amps inherently incorporate a rumble filter... a roll-off in output at infrasonic frequencies to reduce driver over-excursion, and increase output at audible frequencies. For me, anyway, I wanted these to mostly operate in the infrasonic range, so an amp that rolled off these frequencies was counter-productive. Though the actual specs can be hard to find, especially on the cheap receivers that many of us are resorting to, I don't think they generally include this "feature".

I would not put much faith in an Insignia receiver. They are re-branded KLH electronics (manufactured by Hip-Shing) and when I worked at Best Buy we had more returns of KLH and Insignia receivers than anything else. I would recommend going the receiver route, just not the model you currently selected. If there's a Circuit City nearby you can get a Sherwood or Onkyo stereo amp that will probably last a lot longer than the Insignia.

If you don't mind the issue I mentioned earlier about defaulting to a preset volume level every time it's power cycled, you can pick up used Sherwood RX-4103 receivers all the time off ebay for less than $50. That's what I'm using, and it works just fine. I just bump up the volume a bit when I want to really feel them.

Now let me say this, anyone who says the regular version does not give enough rumble/force simply needs to mess around a bit more. I have 3 mounted to a HUGE couch and 3 mounted under my back riser which weighs a freakin' ton. And it is more than enough rumble in both cases.

They may not be comparing Aura to Aura, but Aura to Buttkicker. I have two Buttkickers mounted under my floor... the floor to a very large living room and support floor to the raised floor of the kitchen, hall and dining room. All told, around 1000 sq.ft. of space, about 2/3 on a second raised floor. These two shakers move the living room intensely and can easily be felt on any of the other floors... while being dialed back from max travel (bottom out) by quite a bit!

In contrast, you have six shakers, three times as many, creating a "rumble". Costwise, you probably have the advantage, but for sheer impact it may be very hard to mount enough Bass Shakers to equal two Buttkickers.

They may not be comparing Aura to Aura, but Aura to Buttkicker. I have two Buttkickers mounted under my floor... the floor to a very large living room and support floor to the raised floor of the kitchen, hall and dining room. All told, around 1000 sq.ft. of space, about 2/3 on a second raised floor. These two shakers move the living room intensely and can easily be felt on any of the other floors... while being dialed back from max travel (bottom out) by quite a bit!

In contrast, you have six shakers, three times as many, creating a "rumble". Costwise, you probably have the advantage, but for sheer impact it may be very hard to mount enough Bass Shakers to equal two Buttkickers.

Actually, I have seen several posts saying how the regular Aura shakers do not provide enough output and saying to go with the Pro versions. This is simply not true as my regular Aura's provide tons of rumble and shaking. Yes, they move the entire riser as well as the sofa sitting on it.

As for the buttkickers, they are meant to be mounted under extremely large areas as you describe. They are often overkill for most normal furniture and all but the biggest platforms.

Thanks for the tips, how do you control the LFE in the Sherwood RX-4103, so that for example the shakers don't go off while Sean Connery is talking. Im looking for it to kick in more in big explosions and that kind of thing, not to shake the whole movie long.

Thanks for the tips, how do you control the LFE in the Sherwood RX-4103, so that for example the shakers don't go off while Sean Connery is talking. Im looking for it to kick in more in big explosions and that kind of thing, not to shake the whole movie long.

By default the shakers would reproduce everything that your subwoofer is currently set to reproduce (based on the LFE crossover point you selected). If you want to limit the shakers to frequencies lower than the crossover point, you can add an inline FMOD with its own passive crossover point. Partsexpress sells a 50Hz crossover that some people have used. If you want a fully adjustable low-pass crossover than you're better off sticking with a plate subwoofer amp.

YYou need to us a low pass filter before the line input on the receiver to filter out the higher frequencies. The simplest way to do that would be with a 50hz f-mod. The cheapest place I found one was at Crutchfield (http://www.crutchfield.com/S-Aw4p6xnoY0p/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=82600&I=069900060&search=f%2Dmod), by the time you factor in a free shipping coupon which you should be able to find with some quick googling. Personally, I wanted to filter even lower than 50hz, and I had a spare channel on my BFD. So I'm boosting the frequencies below 20hz, and rolling off to the point where there's basically nothing left above about 35hz. with these settings, the shaking is VERY occasional, and pretty much restricted to explosions, etc. There are some exceptions... "The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy", for example, has a lot of infrasonic bass throughout the movie. So you're at the whim of the sound engineer. But restricting their activity above 30hz does a pretty good job.

Am I missing something, or if you want to add an fmod to control the level of bass for when the shakers kick in are you better off with one of the Plate amps, becuase it has the ability build in?

Assuming you pay $80 to $100 for a cheap reciever then another $30 for the Fmods the price ends up being the same as a plate amp that has enough watts to run 4 Bass shaker pros.


On another not in the wiring diagrams I assume its a single wire as apposed to a pair of wires goint between the shakers.

As I mentioned earlier, the problem with the plate amps I've seen is they generally have a subsonic filter that rolls off the response below 20hz. Below 20hz is where I wanted their output to be the strongest, so using a plate amp is counterproductive to what I wanted.

As I mentioned earlier, the problem with the plate amps I've seen is they generally have a subsonic filter that rolls off the response below 20hz. Below 20hz is where I wanted their output to be the strongest, so using a plate amp is counterproductive to what I wanted.

Ahh Now I get ya, I am slow sometimes :) I should check out some local goodwills might even be able to find a suitable reciver there.

My main reciever has the option of setting the bass xover as well, if the shaking becomes to much I will lower the subwoofer xover on my reciever and let my fronts handle some more base until I get an Fmod.

Thanks again for all the help, my shakers will be arriving today :)

Thanks for all the tips, I wired up and installed the Shakers yesterday and am VERY happy with the effect. I like the way it vibrates with the Bass and not just a random shake.

Now I just have to find a better place to mount them as the inside of the middle box on my reclining sofa dosent seem to do the trick. Also have to find a permenant reciver to run them, I am just borrowing an insignia 200W stero reciver to drive them right now.

As for the buttkickers, they are meant to be mounted under extremely large areas as you describe. They are often overkill for most normal furniture and all but the biggest platforms.

Hmmm.... Let me say that the effect is incredible when you watch movies with content below 15hz in the LFE channel. I have one buttkicker in each end recliner section of the 3 section couch - and WOW - what a ride!!!

Semi-OT for anybody who decides to use a Sherwood RX-4103/RX-4105 to drive their shakers:

The new 4105 looks very similar to the older 4103 (especially the internal components--couldn't tell a difference there at all) and has the same power rating. However, the remote control is different and so are the infrared codes. Therefore, if you already own a 4103 and decide to add a 4105 you can't use the same remote (or universal remote programming) for both at the same time. I'm going to have to return the 4105 I bought today because of this problem.

BTW, the 4105 is on sale at Circuit City this week which is why I bought one.

Yes, I did the same thing... I ordered a 4105 (it was on sale for $70 before they actually had it in stock), and while I was waiting I picked up a 4103 off ebay for something like $40. The 4105's frequency response specs make it appear that it goes lower, so I figured I'd end up using that one. But then I hooked it all up, and discovered that it reset to a fixed volume setting every time it was power cycled. I could have just used the remote to adjust the volume every time, but that presented a problem: I also use a Sherwood PLII receiver (RD-6108) to break the RL and RR channels from my main receiver into more rear channels (effectively a 9.1 system :D), and it shares the same IR commands as the 4105. So changing the shake level with the remote would have also screwed up the balance of my rear channels (thankfully the 6108 does NOT reset the volume with a power cycle). So I hooked up the 4103 to see if by chance it would retain the volume setting on a power cycle. It didn't, but then I realized the remote commands were different than the 6108. So I'm able to use the 4103 in conjunction with the 6108 without the IR commands interfering with each other. It's really odd... I bought the 6108 a several years ago, so it's definitely older than the 4105. Yet they share IR codes, and the 4103 (which is just the older version of the 4105) is different.

FWIW, I've not found that the low frequency performance is any different between the 4103 and the 4105: both seem to work equally well.

Yes the distortion specs on the 4105 are lower than the 4103 so it looks like Sherwood did make some small improvements to the 4103. However, they did cheapen the display a little bit with a 1-color fluoroluminescent screen instead of 2-color.

I mounted my Aura shakers on my platforms this past weekend and they are being carpeted today. I Have my Coaster theater seats on the lower platform and standard theater chairs on the upper platform. My question is padding?? How much if any on the platforms??

Right now with the Coaster chairs directly on the plywood it feels great. I don't want to diminish the effect. Since the theater style chairs are mounted directly to the plywood I figure no problem there accept where you put your feet.

Do I need any padding on the platform?

I am running 2 sets of 9 aura pros. I have them paralled/Series together to achieve approx 5 ohms per channel. I am powering these with an audiosource amp 300 rated at 235 watts per channel at 4 ohms.


Can I assume each channel now has the capacity to handle 450 watts?

I am running 2 sets of 9 aura pros. I have them paralled/Series together to achieve approx 5 ohms per channel.I can see how you wire three parallel strings of three in series to get a total of 4 ohms (three in series=12 ohms, three 12 ohm strings in parallel=4 ohms), or... to connect in series three sets of three in parallel for a load of 4 ohms (three shakers in parallel=1.3333 ohms, three of the 1.3333 ohms sets in series=4 ohms), but can't visualize how you would wire them to shake equally and end up with 5 ohms.

Can you elaborate on how the 9 are being wired to get approx 5 ohms?

I am powering these with an audiosource amp 300 rated at 235 watts per channel at 4 ohms. Can I assume each channel now has the capacity to handle 450 watts?If the power is being divided equally to each of the shakers and they each can handle 50 watts, then you are correct. Each set of 9 shakers can handle 450 watts. You could use a bigger amplifier and get more shaking.

Joe L.

I can see how you wire three parallel strings of three in series to get a total of 4 ohms (three in series=12 ohms, three 12 ohm strings in parallel=4 ohms), or... to connect in series three sets of three in parallel for a load of 4 ohms (three shakers in parallel=1.3333 ohms, three of the 1.3333 ohms sets in series=4 ohms), but can't visualize how you would wire them to shake equally and end up with 5 ohms.

Can you elaborate on how the 9 are being wired to get approx 5 ohms?

If the power is being divided equally to each of the shakers and they each can handle 50 watts, then you are correct. Each set of 9 shakers can handle 450 watts. You could use a bigger amplifier and get more shaking.

Joe L.


When I checked each individual speaker with my ohm meter it read 4.9. So when they were all connected it read 4.9 ((4.9 / 3) * 3). So yes, I really only have 4 ohm, using the rated ohm of 4.0 per speaker.

In hindsight, I should have ohmed them to 8 so I could have bridged my amp to 470 watts mono and picked up another AS amp 300 to maximize the shakers.

Personally, I don't think you need another amp. They really don't need that much power. Currently I'm feeding a total of 12 shakers with a 105wpc (x 2) amp, and I'm bottoming out the shakers long before I run out of amp power. I'm equalizing mine to focus their output into the infrasonic range, which of course is going to cause me to be excursion limited. But still, I can't imagine needing THAT much power. You should be fine as your are.

Personally, I don't think you need another amp. They really don't need that much power. Currently I'm feeding a total of 12 shakers with a 105wpc (x 2) amp, and I'm bottoming out the shakers long before I run out of amp power. I'm equalizing mine to focus their output into the infrasonic range, which of course is going to cause me to be excursion limited. But still, I can't imagine needing THAT much power. You should be fine as your are.

It "feels" good now, I prefer not to purchase another amp at this time. I can't imagine what another 270 watts could do.

Any thoughts on the carpet padding for the risers?

I don't think padding will make a HUGE difference... obviously if you have theater style seats that mount directly to the plywood underneath, it won't make any difference. But even if you have furniture that would sit on top of the padding, most furniture concentrates the weight load into small areas that mostly compress the carpeting and padding down pretty far, so the isolation wouldn't be all that huge.

Even so, if it were me, I still probably wouldn't use padding. It's just not a high enough traffic area to really need it, and you could argue that padding could make the footing slightly less secure for people making the steps.

When I checked each individual speaker with my ohm meter it read 4.9. So when they were all connected it read 4.9 ((4.9 / 3) * 3). So yes, I really only have 4 ohm, using the rated ohm of 4.0 per speakertomr,
Interesting...
Usually, the DC resistance of a loudspeaker/driver is lower than the AC impedance, not higher. (And the "ohms" rating for speakers/shakers is the average AC impedance over its operating frequency range, not the DC resistance)

In any case, it could be the shaker voicecoil is of higher resistance than advertised(and probably higher impedance too), or the test-leads of your meter added their own resistance, or the meter calibration itself is slightly off and is the cause of my confusion. It sure sounds to me like you know what you are doing with the wiring and basic parallel/series calculations.

Before you put hundreds of watts into your shakers I just wanted to verify they all got an equal amount of the power and that you didn't smoke one or two by overdriving them while under-driving the others. From what you have said, you are fine and they will all shake equally.

Happy shaking. Before you buy a more powerful amp check it out at your current power level. Many of us are using much less power and have plenty enough shaking. You might find the current amplifier is fine.

Joe L.

tomr,
Interesting...
Usually, the DC resistance of a loudspeaker/driver is lower than the AC impedance, not higher. (And the "ohms" rating for speakers/shakers is the average AC impedance over its operating frequency range, not the DC resistance)

In any case, it could be the shaker voicecoil is of higher resistance than advertised(and probably higher impedance too), or the test-leads of your meter added their own resistance, or the meter calibration itself is slightly off and is the cause of my confusion. It sure sounds to me like you know what you are doing with the wiring and basic parallel/series calculations.

Before you put hundreds of watts into your shakers I just wanted to verify they all got an equal amount of the power and that you didn't smoke one or two by overdriving them while under-driving the others. From what you have said, you are fine and they will all shake equally.

Happy shaking. Before you buy a more powerful amp check it out at your current power level. Many of us are using much less power and have plenty enough shaking. You might find the current amplifier is fine.

Joe L.

I ran a test last night playing U571. "shook me all night long" came to mind! I was leary of cranking the amp to max until I verified I indeed would not over power the Aura's. I am very satisfied. Think I'll crank it up a notch tonight.

I just purchased another Buttkicker amp and two more LFE units. I will be installing a second shaker unit to my recliner section of the couch. Does anyone else have experience in installing multiple LFE's on a single chair or recliner? With sound, doubling the speakers does not double the sound level. But what happens with tactile transducers? Is the shaking displacement doubled? Increased by 3 decibels?

I guess I will find out....