Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide [Text View] - Page 5

Darin

11-11-05, 07:07 AM

I'm sure it will enhance your HT, but I think there's a lot of personal preference in how they are applied. I prefer to have them restricted to ONLY frequencies that *I* think should be felt as shaking. I have mine filtered such that they start to roll off somewhere in the mid 20s, and above 30hz, they roll off quickly. By the mid 30s, they are gone. Others will prefer to feel the impact over a much broader range. Attaching them to an object in your room, like a sofa or chair, isn't really going to produce much audible sound. But attaching it to your floor, your floor could create a fair amount of audible sound due to the fact that the back wave will be isolated. And chances are, your floor isn't going to be as well behaved as a driver as your subs are.

I'm not saying that floor mounting is a bad idea... I have 16 shakers sitting in the corner waiting for me to go down in the crawl space and attach to my floor. After putting some in my sofa & loveseat, I decided I wanted the effect all over. :D I'm just saying that I think floor mounting can make the crossover point a little more critical, due to the chance of it being more audible than furniture mounting.

kurt12

11-11-05, 08:01 AM

Gotcha. Well, I have to route the wires thru the crawl space whether they go on the joists or in the couches, so it wouldn't be a huge deal if I mounted them, then decided to move them. I'll just have to play w/ it, I guess.

Your crossover theory makes sense. My sub goes pretty deep and the main reason I got the Buttkickers was to cover the range from 5-20 Hz more effectively, so your 20-30 number sounds like it might be the ticket. Again, something to play with, but that's half the fun.

madpoet

11-11-05, 08:33 AM

The one thing you don't want is it shaking when people talk ;). Honestly, find the sweet spot for your tastes. It just takes a little playing around.

dshmel, I can't even imagine the amount of shaking 3 units in a couch would produce. I thought I liked the tactile effect! You're heads and shoulders above me man ;)

Darin

11-11-05, 08:37 AM

I can't even imagine the amount of shaking 3 units in a couch would produce.
That sounds like something that should be experienced privately. :eek:

kurt12

11-11-05, 02:20 PM

Just an FYI --

I talked to Buttkicker's tech support (that sounds kind of funny) and they recommended mounting to the floor joists for the most realistic effect. Obviously, it's still a matter of preference, but I thought I'd pass that along.

I also asked about crossover points and he said that 90% of users leave the filters off and let the BK's run parallel to the sub. I'm not sure I like this idea, though, as shaking up to 80 Hz seems a bit much. Easy enough to screw around w/, but that's the manufacturer's $.02.

avam

11-11-05, 02:30 PM

I have read both shaker threads...and I need my basic Aura's to shake more when I have the main receiver volume at lower levels. They are great when watching a movie at theater levels, but I have a child sleeping in the next room most of the time and have to keep the volume down. I want to feel the rumble. I think I understand my set-up issues, but could use some input. I have three Coaster seats with one shaker mounted to 3/4" MDF and bolted to the frame under each one. They are wired in series for 12 ohm load. My main receiver is a Denon 3805. I am splitting the sub-out (X-over at 80Hz), with one line going to my sub's amp, the other going to an old receiver (TEAC AG-V1020 bought off e-bay) that drives the shakers. I believe the TEAC is 100W/Ch, but I don't know for certain and can not find the specs on-line. It shows on the back of the receiver that is should be able to handle 4 to 16 ohms and there is a switch for over or under 8 Ohms. I am only using the right channel for now. I have to turn the volume up over 3/4 on the shaker receiver and have the Denon volume up pretty high to get good shaking. Once they really shake, it's awesome, but again the overall speaker volume is too loud. I want to get the most I can out of this old receiver before spending the money to get something with more power, if ultimately that is the solution.

Would the shakers effectively see "more power" if I wire 2 in series for 8 ohms on one channel and wire the 3rd shaker to the other channel at 4 ohms. I should be able to use the balance to even out the shaking. I'm going to try this but would like some expert opinions.

Maybe I should use 1/2" board to mount the shakers on and then to the frame? Maybe the frame just can't vibrate enough without these things cranked. Should I loosen the mounting of the shaker on the board? I have them fairly tight. With that black pad on the shakers, it was hard to know how tight to make them. I'm also sitting on a concrete slab under the carpet so there is no help from the floor. Do you think the signal from the Denon is just weak? I have no problems with the sub amp driving the sub.

Jeff

kurt12

11-11-05, 03:00 PM

They would see more power that way, but you would have to do a heck of a lot of gain adjustment to bring them all into sync. If your sending 100W thru one channel to an 8 ohm load that's being split between two shakers, you're down to 50W each, whereas the 4 ohm load would be seeing 200W if the receiver's 100W rating is at 8 ohms (I assume it is). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I figure it. At the price of the Aura's, I'd buy one more from PE, wire two in series to each of two channels for 100W to two 8 ohm loads. I'm sure you can find room for one more, right? :)

As far as tightness of installation, the tighter the better. Loosening screws in any piece of the equation gives your system "slop" to transfer the vibrations to, rather than the furniture you want it in. Would you rather have the shaker ride up and down the screws or transfer it's vibration right to your seating?

Question for the others... could he wire the left and right channels out separately from the receiver and solder/couple them together for an effective 200W load to his current configuration? Seems to me you want to make use of both those channels, however you may do it, if you feel you're currently lacking power.

jvgillow

11-11-05, 06:05 PM

Question for the others... could he wire the left and right channels out separately from the receiver and solder/couple them together for an effective 200W load to his current configuration? Seems to me you want to make use of both those channels, however you may do it, if you feel you're currently lacking power.

You can't bridge an amplifier in that way. It must have build-in bridging capability to combine the two channels into one big mono channel.

Avam:

I would do like he said and get one more Aura and drive two on each channel. You might risk over-driving the Auras if they get a full 50W from the TEAC (not likely to happen with most movie material) but it would help the gain issue at low volumes. Also check to see if there is a level control (separate from the main volume) that would allow you to boost the input. When you watch a movie at loud volumes you would obviously want to lower the gain on the shaker amp to something suitable.

kurt12

11-13-05, 12:50 AM

OK --

Got my two Buttkickers installed on some bracing spanning my floor joists. I put on The Incredibles and on any scene w/ decent base, I get a horrible knocking sound. I went down in the crawl space while the movie was playing and it seemed like one of the BK's was doing nothing while the other was producing the knocking sound that was clearly coming from within the Buttkicker.

I'm not sure which one is bad... maybe both. Any ideas? If the one that seems to be doing nothing is bad, then maybe the amp is sending too much power to the other? Even if I turn the amp to halfway, though, I still get knocking on really heavy bass.

Darin

11-13-05, 01:09 AM

I would assume knocking to be bottoming out, which simply means you are over-driving them. How do you have them wired? If they are in series, they should automatically get the same amount of power. Otherwise, you may just have to balance the power between the two. If they are securely mounted, you may not be able to tell sense the vibration well just by feeling the buttkickers. But of the one that is knocking is also vibrating a lot, it may just not be mounted as well, and the sound could be from the loose mount. That would reduce it's contribution to shaking your floor, cause noise, AND make it feel as though it's producing more output than the other.

kurt12

11-13-05, 01:28 AM

They are wired in parallel and both are mounted to two 2x6's w/ #10x2 1/2" wood screws. The 2x6's are tight between floor joists and secured w/ 3/8"x3" lag screws, two into each contact point, so eight per Buttkicker. I can't imagine they're not secure -- I could go down there and hang from them if I wanted to. I'll check it again, though.

At 2 ohms, the BK amp puts out 2100 W so I could totally see the bottoming out happening, even if the BK's are rated up to 1500 W. I checked the BK website, and what I'm hearing is exactly what it describes when one bottoms out. The question is why is it doing that? If I have two wired in parallel and one happened not to work, would the amp still see its impedance, resulting in a max of 2100 W to one BK? I don't think this makes sense, but I'm not sure. I know it can be hard to judge whether the one is, in fact, doing anything, but it sure seems pretty stagnant when I put my hand on it during heavy bass scenes.

dshmel

11-13-05, 09:15 AM

dshmel, I can't even imagine the amount of shaking 3 units in a couch would produce. I thought I liked the tactile effect! You're heads and shoulders above me man ;)

The effect is like riding in a car with no suspension over heavy rumble strips. My son was playing Halo on his XBOX and asked me if the ceiling lights were shaking - I said: "No, YOU are!"

I would like to hear from someone that has or has auditioned the dbox system to see if they have compared to the Buttkicker.

Darin

11-21-05, 09:08 AM

I'm just posting to once again mention the importance of checking the polarity of the Aura shakers before installing them, if you are using multiple shakers attached to one object. I originally installed 12 shakers: 4 in my loveseat, and 8 in my couch. I noticed that one side of the couch didn't shake as much as the other, and further investigation showed that one of the shakers was out of phase with the others, so in effect, it was cancelling out the effect of another one (as if I had six shakers in the couch). It wasn't that I had it wired incorrectly: ONE of those 8 shakers is inherently out of phase with the others. It has to be wired backwards to operate in phase with the others.

I've been collecting more shakers, to put a few more in my furniture, and to also put some in my floor. I decided to test the (twelve) new shakers, so I'd know they were all operating in phase. In testing, one pair was out of phase with the other five pairs. So I figured again, there were occasional anomalies in polarity with these. Then I went to install a few more in my sofa, and discovered that the 2 out of the twelve were the same as the 7 of the 8 in the sofa. In other words, out of 20 shakers tested, 9 have one polarity, while 11 have the other. These were all "new" shakers, still in their sealed boxes, from various sources. I still need to tear my loveseat apart & check the polarity on those.

Essentially, you have no guarantee that any two shakers mounted to the same object are going to be helping each other out. If you don't test them first, they could be cancelling each other out.

cpc

11-28-05, 01:04 PM

With regards to the standard non-pro aura bass shakers, is there a consensus as to which rca f-mod crossover to use? 50 hz or 70 hz?

What do you figure is the best way to verify the polarity of each of the bass shakers?

thanx

:)

Darin

11-28-05, 02:14 PM

It's mostly an issue of personal preference. Some people like to feel the entire bass range, while others like to leave the audible portion to their sub, and restrict the shakers to the infrasonic range. The crossover point selected will determine how often they come in to play... at 70hz or higher, you will find them active quite often, even during music. At half that, you will find they are mostly during intense special effects.

As far as changing the polarity, all you have to do is swap the wires (positive for negative). To detect whether the polarity is correct (all shakers vibrating in unison), the easiest way is to feed them a low frequency sine wave before installing them, and test two at a time: hold one in each hand, and touch them together back to back (or front to front, depending on your POV). If you hold them together back to back, they should be operating out of phase, and the vibrations will seem to stop once you touch them together. If one of them is out of phase with the other one, they will be IN phase when touched back to back, and you will still feel significant vibrating when you touch them together. If you find any that our out of phase with the others, just wire those backwards when you permanently hook them up.

Note that I bought mine on multiple dates from multiple places. If you just have one or two pairs, and got them at the same time from the same place, I think your chances of them having the same polarity are better than mine were. HOWEVER, I did have a case where two out of the same package were different, so there's no guarantee.

cpc

11-28-05, 03:03 PM

Far enough. I think 50 hz would be fine. I'll experiment and see what I come up with in terms of phase etc.

:)

cpc

12-04-05, 02:15 PM

Here are a few simple questions regarding bass shaker setup:

1) Does splitting the signal from the receiver subwoofer out between the subwoofer and bass shaker amp (old receiver) with a Y-cable reduce the level of the signal that will go to my subwoofer by a noticable amount, and if so, how much?

I am planning to try this out by running a long RCA from the y-cable hooked to the back of my receiver subwoofer output. The long RCA will travel across the side of my room to my old receiver which will sit underneath my futon. There I will connect the rca cable via a y-cable to the left and right inputs of the old receiver. The receiver will be wired in series to two pairs of bass shakers, one pair each for the left and right channels. I don't have long enough speaker cable to traverse the room. Will this work or should I run speaker cable over the long distance instead?

2) Is it ok to run a long 12 foot or slightly longer rca cable with the subwoofer signal going to my bass shaker amp (old receiver)? Will the longer rca further reduce the signal going to the bass shakers and/or subwoofer because of the longer run? Should I run long speaker wire instead?

thanx for any feedback,

:)

Darin

12-04-05, 02:43 PM

1) Does splitting the signal from the receiver subwoofer out between the subwoofer and bass shaker amp (old receiver) with a Y-cable reduce the level of the signal that will go to my subwoofer by a noticable amount, and if so, how much?
I'm doing this, and I haven't NOTICED a drop in my sub level. I haven't yet checked levels with a meter, so I can't say with certainty.
The long RCA will travel across the side of my room to my old receiver which will sit underneath my futon. ... Will this work or should I run speaker cable over the long distance instead?
Generally, it's much better to run speaker-level wiring over long runs than line-level, as line-level is succeptable to noise, while speaker-level is only succeptable to a drop in output. But for the distance you are talking about, you shouldn't notice a difference. I have line-level wiring running from my den to my kitchen and living room (each run about 40'), and I don't have noise issues.
2) Is it ok to run a long 12 foot or slightly longer rca cable with the subwoofer signal going to my bass shaker amp (old receiver)? Will the longer rca further reduce the signal going to the bass shakers and/or subwoofer because of the longer run? Should I run long speaker wire instead?
I assume this is the same question as above, UNLESS you are asking if you can use speaker wire to run line-level (sub out) signalling to your shaker amp. If so, the answer is NO. You always want to use shielded cable for line-level runs, ESPECIALLY when they are long. Non-shielded (speaker) wire should only be used for speaker level connections.

cpc

12-04-05, 02:54 PM

Opps. I guess I asked the same question twice. I know not to run a line level signal on anything but rca cable. I was a little impatient and emailed you too. The distance will only be less than 20 feet, probably less than 16 feet.

I am going to attach each bass shaker to a small peice of wood that I will attach to the futon. My futon is steel, so I have no idea how well it will work. Bass shaker performance could depend on the vibration/resonance of my steel framed futon. Hopefully I will get enough direct transmission from the shakers below through the futon mattress and into our respective butts...lol... :)

thanx..I'm going to grab two Y RCA cables and one long rca cable, attach the bass shakers and give it a try :)

srw1000

12-04-05, 03:19 PM

The resonate frequency of the Bass Shakers is 40Hz. I know that some people have had success using an equalizer to boost the lower frequency output, but is there another option?

I'm wondering if there's something out there that would take the bass from, say 20-35 Hz and convert it to 35-50 Hz? This wouldn't be the same as an equalizer that would boost or diminish response, but it would actually take frequencies that the shaker can't produce that well, and change them into something they were built to handle?

Just an idea.

Scott

Darin

12-04-05, 03:25 PM

There are products out there that do the opposite (sub-harmonic synthesizers), which, for example, produces lower frequency tones from higher ones. I'd imagine you could find it the other way too. Personally, I think that's a bad approach: for less money, you could probably just buy better transducers (such as buttkickers) that can more easily get down low. Or, you could just turn the bass shakers up until they distort: I'm sure much of the distortion will be a higher frequency than the original tone. :D

richh

12-05-05, 11:59 AM

does anyone know if the aura pros that parts express is selling these days are also "white box" units and perhaps not as potent as the retail version of the pro?

clrv

12-05-05, 12:33 PM

I just got some from Parts Express and they where the white box.

Darin

12-05-05, 01:16 PM

If they are selling the "pros" in white boxes, that doesn't necessarily mean they are less potent. I got some white box regular Auras from PE, and they did have a stiffer spider (which gave them less output per watt, particularly in the lower frequencies). Unless someone has already found that the stiffer spider is also in white box pros, I wouldn't necessarily assume that to be the case.

cpc

12-05-05, 11:10 PM

miltimj

12-05-05, 11:27 PM

Is the "mod" mentioned in this thread? Something about how to modify the original bass shaker and/or the pro to achieve better (more?) performance? Something to do with the voice coil, spider or something related.
I believe you're referring to Darin's post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6323148&&#post6323148).

Darin

12-06-05, 07:11 AM

I know what you're referring to, and I know it's in this forum somewhere, and probably in this thread somewhere. There's a link to another article on the web somewhere where some guy has taken a dremmel tool to the spiders in his shakers to make them thinner and more compliant, and therefore lower their resonant frequency. I know in another thread here somewhere, there is someone on this board that has done that, I just can't remember now. It's not something I was comfortable doing (for a couple of reasons), so I can't offer any first hand knowledge of doing it.

miltimj

12-06-05, 10:45 PM

Oops, you're right.. you're describing the issue in that post I linked to, but not the solution that I remember as well. After some searching, I found the one that I've seen before:

http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/accessories/aura/aura_guykuo_mod.html

Krynos

12-08-05, 02:46 PM

I want to add shakers to my HT, been thinking about it for some time, now after reading the first 70% of this thread I am convinced. Especially after watching War of the Worlds last night and having my sub screaming in pain until I turned it down... Well it could have been the fiance screaming in pain - there was some severe air pressure going on :)

Now my AV rack, is well, full. Adding another amplifier would be a total pain, not to mention I'm cheap so I would end up using an older Sony AVR I have hanging around not doing a lot. Which isn't the best looking piece of kit (it's the reciever left over from an old HTiB set up I used to use many years ago).

But! My main reciever is a Harmon Kardon AVR525...

Now it's a HK, so it has 7 independent amplifier channels, each can be driven symultaneously at 70w. Now I only use 5 of them, as I do not have a 7.1 set up.

I've read the manual and you can switch two amplifiers from being 'surround back left' and 'surround back right', to being 'zoneII left' and 'zone II right'. The 525 has multizone support. So I should be able to use this to drive some shakers right?

Does this make sense?

I thought I could take my subwoofer out (.1 channel) and split it with a Y, one connection sent to my powered sub, and have the other loop back to the amp into an input I don't currently use (say VCR). I can use the OSD to set whatever input I want to be "multiroom input". So I would select VCR in to be the source for the multiroom then connect two bass shakers in series to zoneII left, and two bass shakers in series to zoneII right.

Being as I have a Harmon Kardon with its fancy independent internal amps that should work just as well as a second amp for the shakers right?

- Rick

Darin

12-08-05, 03:15 PM

Yes, that should work fine. The only concern you MIGHT have is whether or not your receiver really can do 70wpc simultaneously. Many receivers SAY they can, but when all channels are driven at max, they really can't. You can get a hint of this by looking at the recevier's power rating, it should list a max power consumption in watts. 7x70 = 490 watts, so by the time you account for amp inefficiency, the maximum power consumption SHOULD be well over 600 watts.

Of course, we're only talking about 2 out of 7 channels. Even if it can't really handle 70wpc simultaneously, the actual impact probably won't be noticeable.

Krynos

12-08-05, 04:01 PM

Thanks for the reply Darin!

On the specs page of the manual it says:

Power Requirement AC 120V/60Hz
Power Consumption 120W idle, 1040W maximum (7 channels driven)

It also has this listed:

Seven-Channel Surround Modes
Power per Individual Channel

Front L&R Channels:
70 Watts per channel
@ <0.07% THD, 20Hz-20Khz into 8 ohms

Center channel:
70 Watts @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz-20Khz into 8 ohms

Surround (L&R side, L&R back) channels:
70 watts per channel
@ <0.07% THD, 20Hz - 20Khz into 8 ohms

Stereo Mode
Continuous Average Power (FTC)
85 Watts per channel, 20Hz-20Khz
@ <0.07% THD, both channels driven into 8 ohms

Gotta love Harmon Kardon for not cheating on reported specs, even when it makes their stuff "look" weaker than the equivalent competition! :)

There is a specific section in the OSD advanced menu to switch two channels from being 'surround back left' and 'surround back right' to 'zone II left' and 'zone II right'.

Looks like I am good to go then yes?

- Rick

Darin

12-08-05, 04:33 PM

Yes, I certainly wouldn't be concerned with doing that. It is a convenient source of amplification if you are not using those channels.

Daniel Bishop

12-08-05, 07:41 PM

Darin,

I am showing my ignorance, but...

how do you test if a bass shaker is "out of phase"?

Daniel

Darin

12-08-05, 08:18 PM

The easiest way is to take two shakers and apply a low frequency test tone to them. Hold one in each hand, and they should each be vibrating. If you bring the two of them together and touch them top to top, so that the bump-outs in the covers are touching. If they feel like they've continued vibrating after you touch them together, they are out of phase relative to each other. If they feel like they suddenly stop vibrating when you touch them together, they are in phase relative to each other.

arethosereal

12-09-05, 07:24 PM

I need to hook up 5 transducers. I've got an A/V receiver, sub, an AudioSource Amp 300 and an Amp 5.3A. I'd like to dedicate the Amp 5.3A to 1 transducer and power the other 4 with the Amp 300.

I'm confused about splitting the signals properly. Should the first split go to the sub and the Amp300's line in (through another split for L & R) for the 4 transducers, then use the line out to go into the Amp 5.3A for the 1 transducer? If so, would it be wise to split the line out into 1 channel for the 1 transducer, or just connect 1 line out (L or R) into 1 line in (L or R)?

Alright, so I don't know what the hell I'm doing. Any advice?

Equipment is:
Denon AVR-3806
Denon DVD-2910
Definitive Tech. Mythos 1, 2, 3, Gems, SupercubeI
Audiosource Amp300 & Amp5.3A
Clark TST239 (x5)
Panasonic AE900
Stewart Firehawk
Yada Yada Yada

cpc

12-09-05, 09:49 PM

I think the bass shakers are just like speakers. If you touch them together face to face, they should vibrate, if they don't, they are out of phase. If they are in phase, then when one speaker or bass shaker is moving out, the other is moving in, so they cancel out. If they are out of phase, then one speaker/shaker is moving out while the other is moving in and you get a cancel out effect. Right? I guess I can wire them up a pair at a time and try it out.

Darin

12-09-05, 09:59 PM

Actually, if you touch them together face to face, THAT'S when they should cancel each other out. If they are manufactured correctly, and are both facing the same direction, they would both be vibrating in the same direction at the same time. Touching them together face to face causes them to face opposite directions, so when you touch them together they cancel each other out.

NCGoldwinger

12-10-05, 10:40 AM

Darin

12-10-05, 10:57 AM

I have mine EQ'd to accentuate the infrasonics, and roll off sharply above 30hz. At such low frequencies, without any enclosure, I don't think they'd produce enough audible output to be able to calibrate with a sound meter (though I've not tried). And at such low frequencies, I easily reach the excursion limits. So I just adjust mine to be as "loud" as possible without reaching the excursion limits. The DO become audible once the excursion limit is hit, and I try to avoid that.

NCGoldwinger

12-10-05, 11:11 AM

I have mine EQ'd to accentuate the infrasonics, and roll off sharply above 30hz. At such low frequencies, without any enclosure, I don't think they'd produce enough audible output to be able to calibrate with a sound meter (though I've not tried).

Darin,

Do you use a BFD for EQ'ing? I have a BFD unit and have my dual subs into it but could combine both into one channel and use the other for the shakers if needed.

With my shakers out of the box (non eq'ed) I was able to use my SPL meter to set the volume of them. Using internal receiver tones I set my SPL at 80db and turned off both subs and turned up the shakers so it read 80 on the meter so I assume that are outputting something for my meter to respond to it.

Your thoughts?

Thanks..
Rick

Darin

12-10-05, 12:34 PM

Yes, I'm using the spare channel of my BFD, along with a 50hz f-mod. I assume you are running the shakers straight out of the sub out, and that it's set something around 80hz? The higher frequencies may be easier for meter to read without an enclosure. Though admittedly, I've not take a meter to mine to see if they register.

NCGoldwinger

12-14-05, 08:28 AM

Darin,

Yes I am "Y 'ing" out of the sub out of my receiver that is crossed at 80 although I am using the 250 watt amp from PE to power the shakers that has a variable crossover and I have it set at 50hz right now. When I have time I want to try maybe 60 to see the results at that setting. I have read that some have experienced "buzzing" at the 80 hz setting when a male is speaking so I wil avoid going any higher than about 60..

Rick

wildchild22

12-15-05, 02:03 PM

I have 4 pros put in one couch and running off an old pioneer sx-3400 stereo amp ( 15 watts per channel ) I am going to run the other couch off of the other channel. The amp is rated @ 15 watts output but I nam unsure if that means @ 8ohms or 4 ohms. The amp can take 4 ohm speakers so I ran 2 sets of 2 speakers in series in parallel with each other to make 4 ohms. One couch at half volume on the amp causes my hard wood floor to shake. It is unbelievable the best dvd I have found for testing thus far is saving private ryan.

Do anyone know if pioneer's specs would be 15 watts @ 8 ohms? or would they measure @ 4ohms?

bear paws

12-16-05, 12:38 PM

A while back, 8 mo. I had and old 10" closed down fire Jensen hanging around.

I built a 4" platform [2x4 + 1/2" plywood] for my curved sectional to straddle [ the couch feet are about 1/2"off the floor] and at one end I cut a 11" hole with 4 one inch holes for the sub to drop into over the big hole.

The seat frame sits on the "sound board". My unsuspecting guests jump up :eek:
It works so good that I'm going to bolt a 15'' into the hole. :D

Just wanted to share.

Bear!

bear paws

12-16-05, 12:51 PM

Do any of you guys use an SPL meter to calibrate your shakers? I remember reading somewhere that one guy set his SPL meter on each seat and calibrated them to 2db's under his other speakers. I set mine to the same instead of 2 under and really like it there. I am using the 250watt amp from PE and have the crossover set to 50.

What does everyone else do? SPL or just adjust it for personal preference?

Thanks..
Rick

They make a tool for measuring Small engine [Lawn mower] RPM.
Its basically a small flat plate with a spring steel pointer with rpm numbers on it.
Really inexpensive. Mine $12. I of course got it for the mowers but tried it on the couch with a sig gen.

I don't have any correlation numbers , but I have had my couch up to 300 rpm at 20 hz. Now all I need is a steering wheel :D

Bear!

richh

12-17-05, 11:52 PM

started experimenting with my white box auras (standard version). have two hooked up to a 240W dayton plate amp from parts express. watched the irene scene from blackhawk down and didn't get much action. i watched a few other scenes (star wars, lord of the rings) and the shakers were pretty active. what gives? is the irene scene too low for the amp and or shaker?

Darin

12-18-05, 09:13 AM

I think you have several things fighting you. For one thing, Auras have a natural resonance over 40hz, so without EQ, their response is going to diminish as frequency lowers from there. From what I've seen of the spiders in the white box versions, I suspect this is going to be even more true of them. Furthermore, most plate amps have a built in rumble filter that rolls output off in the subharmonics. I couldn't find a spec sheet for their 240w amp, but if you look at this spec sheet for their 250w amp (http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/300-794.pdf), you see that output rolls off fairly quickly below 20hz. Combine the curve of the amp with the curve of the shakers, and you just aren't going to get much down low.

If you use an amp that doesn't have the rumble filter, and EQ the shakers to give them more output in the lower frequencies, you can even their response out quite a bit. But from what I've found, at lower frequencies they become excursion limited very quickly, so it takes a lot of shakers if you want decent output in the subharmonics.

cpc

12-18-05, 03:29 PM

Just wondering if I can find F-mods in the Toronto area. I can order them from parts express, but I was wondering if anyone knows where I could find a 50 hz F-mod type of deal somewhere in the GTA.

Anybody?

thanx

:)

olp79

12-21-05, 10:39 PM

I have a quick queston about my bass shaker hook up, but will go into more detail if I need to. Can hooking up three bass shakers, regular, not pro, in series, overlaod my receiver. Or is it more likely a problem with the receiver.

Darin

12-22-05, 12:28 AM

Not in series. That's 12 ohms. A light load for any receiver.

olp79

12-22-05, 01:40 AM

That's what I thought. The receiver I'm running the bass shakers through is a JVC RX6032V, when I turn the volume up almost to max, I need to, to get a good rumble from the shakers, it runs for about a minute then flashes overload. I can also turn the JVC up about 3/4 volume, then turn my SW output on my Pioneer 1014 to +8, and then the JVC overloads again. I was planning on hooking up three more bass shakers in series through the other front speaker output, but if it can't handle the first three, I'm not sure what to do. I bought the JVC for a good price, just to run the bass shakers. Any suggestions?

Darin

12-22-05, 07:20 AM

Are you filtering the input, or are you giving them the full range output of your sub-out? When I first got mine and hooked them up as a test to see how they did, I also overloaded my receiver. But they were getting everything from 80hz down. Now that I have them filtered lower, it never happens even though I have 4 times as many shakers hooked up as I did in that test.

spillz564

12-22-05, 10:35 AM

Way back in this thread, people were looking at which Fmods to use for LF cutoff points.

I recently purchased a set of 70HZ LPF Fmods. However I'm curious to try out other frequencies such as 50Hz or even lower for my bass shakers & buttkicker.

Since these come 2 in a package and I only need one, does anyone have a 50Hz Fmod that they would like to trade for one of my 70Hz fmods for experimentation purposes?

Please feel free to PM me if you want to trade a 50Hz for a 70 Hz (of I'll trade the 70Hz for anything below 70Hz).

olp79

12-22-05, 01:39 PM

It is not being filtered, but the signal is being Y-split to two subs. What should they be filtered with and how low should I go.
Thanks

olp79

12-22-05, 01:47 PM

sorry double post

oakbluff

12-22-05, 04:18 PM

spillz564

12-23-05, 09:37 AM

Shaker along with Dual Subs??

Sorry if I am repeating any previous posts/questions- I am currently running two subs using a y splitter from the sub out in my receiver. I am also interested in the buttkickers. Is it possible to have those also running? I suppose I would have to get another y splitter to run one line to the buttkicker amp. Would this significantly degrade the quality of signal to the subs/buttkicker? Or , is there a better way to get the kicker hooked up? Its a seven channel receiver (pioneer 74txvi) and I'm using all seven channels and obviously the sub out.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

My setup is exactly as you describe above with the exception of me using an HK 7300. Works fine for me. You may want to an an fmod on the line that goes to your tactiles if you want a lower frequency cutoff though.

No problems with downgrade in signal. Although I believe each split drops the signal about 3db.

dshmel

12-23-05, 06:27 PM

Shaker along with Dual Subs??

...I am currently running two subs using a y splitter from the sub out in my receiver. I am also interested in the buttkickers. Is it possible to have those also running? I suppose I would have to get another y splitter to run one line to the buttkicker amp. Would this significantly degrade the quality of signal to the subs/buttkicker? Or , is there a better way to get the kicker hooked up?...

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

I have my sub output split 4 ways (1 sub and 3 Buttkicker amps) and I don't need to drive the gain on the amps up. My SVS PB12-Plus/2 gain setting is the same now as it was before the split.

Krynos

12-25-05, 03:53 PM

Ahh Santa brought me a box of Aura Pro Bass Shakers... how did he know!!!

I have done preliminary testing, 3 of them hooked up in series running off zoneII of my HK reciever, then stuffed down the back of the seating - pretty impressive stuff :)

Looking forward to having the time to mount them correctly!

- Rick

jossix

12-26-05, 08:51 AM

I have 8 shakers including 4 pros attached to 1 futon and one buttkicker attached to the floor of a riser on which is another futon. I have to say that the 8 shakers are fun but the buttkicker is serious business.It would not be easy for me to ever watch a movie again without the buttkicker.

tomr

12-27-05, 09:04 AM

I want to get rid of the "shaking" during music passages in movies. I use the Audio Source Amp 300 for my Aura shakers. I have it set to trigger when DVD is selected on my amp. I really don't care for the shaking during music.

If I understand what I have read I need to install one of these crossovers since I split the signal from my Subwoofer. I've read about the 50Hz lowpass FMOD but what about the PFMOD since it is selectable from 36 to 195 Hz I thought it might lend itself to experimenting instead of locking me into one frequency.

Has anyone here used the PFMOD?

Also, has anyone found any of these crossovers at B&M stores? Frys or the like?

jtaylor150

12-27-05, 10:21 AM

I hate to beat a dead horse with this post but i need help hooking up 5 shakers, 1 row of 3 and 1 row of 2 to a pyle pro 800 watt amp. I currently have each row hooked up in series to each channel in bridged mode. I get very little LFE response but have the amp turned to the max. these are 4 ohm 25 watt (50rms) shakers. Is my problem in the settings on my main receiver by chance or more likely the shaker set up related to ohms. Should i run parallel to drop the ohms and increase the power output of the amps ability. If so can someone draw a diagram of a parallel hookup for 3 shakers. i understand series and parallel with two speakers but adding that third kinda throws me.

jvgillow

12-27-05, 10:25 AM

jtaylor,

If you are running the Pyle amp in bridged mode you will only get 1 channel of output, not two. However, since you are using an odd number of shakers (bad idea in general) you will want to un-bridge the amp and use it in regular stereo mode. Run the two shakers in series to one channel and the other three shakers in series to the second channel. You will have to set the gain on the channel with 3 shakers higher than the channel with 2 shakers if you want the intensity to be the same for all 5.

If you put two shakers in parallel that will present a 2 ohm load. Three shakers in parallel would be 1.33 ohms which is below the minimum impedence of most amps. With your amp and the 25 watt shakers you shouldn't need to use parallel mode anyway.

jtaylor150

12-27-05, 03:18 PM

i called support on the bass shakers and they said having them hooked up serial is fine and the 800 watt x 2 pyle pro amp will easily power them in that configuration, however when i explained that i have the LFE out split with a "y" connector they suggested using a different analog output to send the signal to the amp and my problem would be solved. I was running one digital cable from lfe "y" to mono source on my amp and they said to run stereo out of the other output and i would notice a huge difference. Does this sound like the solution to my limited power i have currently?

Darin

12-27-05, 03:26 PM

Their response doesn't really make much sense to me. If you only have one LFE out, what different analog output do they suggest you use? And I'm still not clear how you have everything hooked up. Is this (http://www.pyleaudio.com/itemdetail.asp?brand=PylePro&cat1=Pro%20Audio&cat2=Power%20Amplifiers&model=PT1600) the amp you're using? Are you really bridging the outputs?

KINGOFOOTBALL33

12-28-05, 02:09 AM

Hello guys ,

Just got some white box auras for xmas and so far I love em.

I have/had a problem. I want my kickers to be on during headphone playback. My receiver wont allow it since it automatically turns off speakers when headphones are present.

My xbox media center is my source not a DVD player....sooo
Someone in my thread recommended I use my xbox advanced audio outputs also so that goes to my 2nd receiver powering the kickers. It has digital output which goes to my main receiver thus allowing my headphones to play normally.

Well I took precaution and passed that output through an EQ jus tin case. Everything is minimized except for 20-60hz which I maxed out. My 2nd receiver has treble minimized. I hooked it all up and voila sounded/felt fantastic !!

until.... I took my headphones off and realized I still hear things. I turned off my main receiver and as it turns out my bas s kickers were playing the full spectrum of sound ((albeit very very low)).

So whats my next step ? I cant minimize higher frequencies any more than I have. Would this be damaging to the kickers at all ?
Would an fmod as mentioned before solve my issues ?
Is there some sneaky trick to make my receiver play headphones while still keeping the LFE channel active ?

This is the other thread BTW
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6797411#post6797411

jtaylor150

12-28-05, 10:12 AM

Their response doesn't really make much sense to me. If you only have one LFE out, what different analog output do they suggest you use? And I'm still not clear how you have everything hooked up. the amp you're using? Are you really bridging the outputs?
Yes that is the amp i have and yes i am bridging the shakers. I only did that since i didn't get the power i thought i would get otherwise. I think once i get the main problem resolved going to straight through hookup will be fine with the power that amp provides. My shakers are hooked up 3 in series in seating row 1 and 2 in series in seating row 2. I have a "y" connector on my sub output on the reciever feeding my powered sub and seperate powered amp for the shakers. I have the shaker PYLE amp turned all the way up and get very little response. i hope this helps explain my setup. i have several other preamp outs on my denon avr-2106 rec. but they are labeled for surround preouts and being a newbie to this i thought those preouts would provide more than just LFE or can i use those preouts to power my seperate shaker amp? Tech support seems to think if i use a seperate analogue output in stereo it will solve my problem. i will try that tonight but for some reason, like you i can't see that solving it. Any additional information would be greatly appreciated.

Darin

12-28-05, 10:35 AM

Well, you could use a spare pre-out (like one that is intended to go to a tape deck, for example), but be aware that if you do that, the impact of the shakers won't be affected by your volume control (which you may or may not like). Also, it will be a full range output, so you'd need to pass it through a filter to remove the higher frequencies. Using a y-connector from your sub-out solves both of these (though personally, I still like to filter the output to further reduce the upper frequencies). Many of us have used Y connectors on our sub outs, with no reduced output. I don't think that is your problem.

That amp should have plenty of power for that number of shakers. In fact, enough to burn them out if you aren't careful. Just to confirm, you have three shakers in series, then two shakers in series, and those two sets are wired in parrallel to each other, with the common negative connected to the amp's right channel negative, and the common positive connected to the left channels positive? The manual for your amp isn't clear... most have a switch to put them into bridged mode, or I believe on some you bridge the the remaining two connections, though your manual doesn't give any clear indications to do that.

Regardless, I'd operate in stereo mode anyway before I did anything else. You've got enough power that you don't NEED to bridge, and operating in stereo is the only way for you to provide equal power to all shakers. This is very important, because they are very easy to bottom out. You need to be able to max them all out, without bottoming, to get the maximum effect. I'd connect the front row to one channel, and the back row to the other, and use the output level controls to maximize each row independantly, as Jeremy suggested.

jtaylor150

12-28-05, 10:56 AM

currently 3 in series to channel A in bridged mode and the other 2 in series to channel B in bridged mode just to clarify the setup. there is a mono/stereo switch on the back of the amp and the speaker terminals show the diagram for bridging but not an actual switch. I have the "y" connector from sub out and one rca going to the mono input on the pyle amp and have the mono selected on previously mentioned switch. i will try the other output as you suggest and run the shakers stereo into speaker inputs and see if i have any luck. If that works, do you have a suggestion for a filter to use? As for the output and please forgive my ignorance once again but if i were to use a "tape deck" preout for instance isn't that only activated or powered if i have that input selected on the receiver or are all outputs powered just not not the inputs until selected. I hope you can follow my elementary question.

Darin

12-28-05, 11:40 AM

currently 3 in series to channel A in bridged mode and the other 2 in series to channel B in bridged mode just to clarify the setup.
Unless your amp is not like others that I've known, that sounds like it could be your problem. When you bridge a two channel amp, you no longer have two channels. You can only drive one speaker (or multiples wired together to look like one), and it is generally wired across both channels. Regardless, I'd still recommend stereo mode for your application.

As far as the tape deck pre-out goes, generally, it's active all the time (if it weren't, there'd be no need for it, as you couldn't record anything). Some receivers will mute the output to the currently selected source to prevent feedback (i.e., there'd be output for "tape out" at all times EXCEPT when "tape" is selected as the input).

As far as filters go, the simplest method for many people is a 50hz f-mod, which simply goes inline between the output of your receiver to the input of the shaker amp. You can get them at Parts Express or Crutchfield.

jtaylor150

12-28-05, 01:34 PM

thank you, with the help of you and others i have plenty to try out tonight. Hopefully i have good news for tomorrow. thanks to all.

djn312

12-30-05, 09:28 AM

miltimj

12-30-05, 11:23 AM

:confused: Question,
Is there a way or a product that I could send the audio signal to my bass shakers wireless? I would like to have a sending unit and 3 receiving units. I have looked on the net and I cannot find anything to do this. Any help would be great!!

Thanks
Search for wireless in the Speakers forum:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?searchid=3049829

There are plenty of options, and they're not really wireless, since you need to plug them into a power source anyway. Running some wires descreetly, even if a pain, is probably a better option. If you do go this way, you'll have to find a system that doesn't include the speaker itself, obviously (just the connection). Did I mention yet that this is a bad idea? (Well, not a bad idea.. just that nothing is implemented that makes this as nice in reality as it sounds in theory)

djn312

12-30-05, 02:29 PM

That what I thought.

Thanks!

saccrue

01-04-06, 12:05 PM

I have a question that will probably seem pretty simple and/or stupid to most of you, but I am new to home theater stuff and would like to see if I understand what I have read so far and to prevent what one user described as a pyrotechnics show. :)
I just ordered some Aura Pro bass shakers for my couch at home. They are the 50W ones. I am looking for an amp and I think I found a nice cheap one to get me started. My question is whether or not this amp will work based on the simple calcs I have done. Please remember that I am very very new at this stuff. Thanks.
The shakers are 50W each and rated at 4 ohms. The amp that I am looking at is the Buttkicker BK-150-2M, rated at 100 watts at 4 ohms and 100 watts at 2 ohms. I don't know how that can be, but on to my question. I think that this amp is a one channel amp. So, If I place the two shakers in series, I would have 8 ohms, which would be no good. So, putting them in parallel would give me 2 ohms, which the amp can handle. So, it seems to me that this would be an acceptable amp to use, but I would have to be careful on the volume usage so that I don't blow the shakers. Right?

dshmel

01-05-06, 06:28 PM

...and to prevent what one user described as a pyrotechnics show. :)

Hmmmm......

.... wonder if he was talking about me (4 BK amps + 5 LFE units).

TechnoCat

01-07-06, 10:59 AM

The shakers are 50W each and rated at 4 ohms. The amp that I am looking at is the Buttkicker BK-150-2M, rated at 100 watts at 4 ohms and 100 watts at 2 ohms. I don't know how that can be, but on to my question. I think that this amp is a one channel amp. So, If I place the two shakers in series, I would have 8 ohms, which would be no good. So, putting them in parallel would give me 2 ohms, which the amp can handle. So, it seems to me that this would be an acceptable amp to use, but I would have to be careful on the volume usage so that I don't blow the shakers. Right?
One reason you haven't gotten an answer yet is that the BK-150-2 is not the current model. The current ButtKicker amp is the BK1000-4, an extremely heavy-duty overbuilt (and fantastic) unit. The BK-150-2 is a cheap unit that probably shares more in-common with car stereo amps than with heavy duty home audio.

That said, I wouldn't worry about impedence too much unless you find yourself cranking the pup to the max a lot. And you should hook them in-parallel, but again, if you find yourself cranking the power up, you'd be better off added two more (i.e. two lines in parallel of two in-serial), because if you push the amp too hard you might burn out the voice coil of the bassshaker.

Those are huge advantages of the far-more-expensive ButtKickers and their amp. No voice coil, gobs of power. And the ButtKickers give you warning of being overpowered by knocking against their enclosure. But that solution also would cost probably six times as much.

saccrue

01-07-06, 05:08 PM

Thanks for the reply. I picked up the El cheapos because I am new to this and I am in the experimenting phase. :)
I just started reading about all of this stuff and was prepared to pick up some Clarks and go that route, but, from doing some reading and research, (what I should have done 2 years ago), I found out that my speakers are CRAP!!!
I am the unfortunate owner of the BOSE Acousticrap 15 speakers. I guess you don't miss the frequencies if you don't know they are there. So, I put these cheapos in for now to play with them but they will probably wind up in the car or on ebay. My money is now focused on picking up a sub, probably the Infinity PS-12 so that I can pick up the lower end that the Acousticraps don't get. That should give me some base in my 1450 square foot house. Then, I am going to pick up some real speakers after I figure out what I want and pay off the Christmas bill. Once I do that, I'll take those little cubes down to the range and fire some .45s through them. Then, I'll drop some Clarks into the couch. :)

technimac

01-19-06, 12:37 AM

I just installed four series/paralleled Bass Shakers under my couch. They're powered by one of those Audiosource Buyout Amps from MCM that I picked up some time ago. They're the ones that were stated to be 50w, but measured more like 125w into 4ohms. They're all gone now, but at the time were selling for $25 ea if you bought 4. This amp has perfect power for a gaggle of BassShakers "ordinaire".

Here's a link to the AudioSource Amp details from MCM
http://www.newark.com/product-details/text/mcm/html/58-9681.html

Darin mentioned that a plate amp's rumble filter can work against what you're trying to achieve by using Bass Shakers. Seems that the rumble filter knocks out most stuff below 20Hz and that's the territory where Bass Shakers just begin to party. This may be a long shot, but why not find the rumble filter and disable it?

Does anyone know if that Audiosource amp has a rumble filter, and if so, could it be disabled fairly easily? I know there was a schematic for the amp floating around last year, and getting a hold of one would be a good place to start. If anyone does have access to the schematic for this amp, please PM me.

Someone on the PE forum did come up with a mod that made the amp full range and that was pretty easily done. But that's not what I'm looking for here.

But, if it's possible to disable the rumble filter (if this AudioSource model even has one), that would dramatically improve the overall performance of any Bass Shakers powered by it.

Cheers, Bruce

kurney

02-01-06, 12:52 PM

thanks for making this a sticky!! helped me out a lot and saved a lot of stupid questions on my behalf

Nickj4384

02-01-06, 10:47 PM

I just purchased 8 Aura Bass Shakers (25w) and a 250w Amp (Part# 300-794) from Parts Express. I was wondering what would be the best set-up to install on 2 recliners. I don't have to use all 8 of the shakers, maybe just 2 on each chair.

Should I wire them in Series or Paralell?

Is 14 or 16 gauge wire the preferred speaker wire to use?

How do I hook this amp up to my receiver or subwoofer?

Thanks for any help you can offer. :)

jvgillow

02-01-06, 10:56 PM

if you use 4 of the shakers, put two chains in parallel where each chain has two shakers in series, giving you a net impedence of 4 ohms. That amp will put out 250w with a 4 ohm load so you'll have 62.5 watts available per shaker (although they aren't designed to handle that much... if you keep them from overheating and bottoming out you should be fine).

If you hook up 8 shakers the best you can manage is two chains in parallel where each chain has 4 shakers. That will give you a net impedence of 8 ohms so you'll only be getting 150 watts out of the amp with 18.75 watts per shaker available.

Nickj4384

02-01-06, 11:31 PM

I'll probably just go with the 4 shakers (2 in each chair). What can I do to make sure it doesn't overheat or bottom out? Also, can you explain how I should wire these again, I'm a little lost on how to wire series in paralell.

Is this what you are talking about: http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/series%20parallel.pdf

Thanks again for the help!

jvgillow

02-02-06, 01:04 AM

Yes that diagram is correct.

After you get them set up with the amplifier and are running some tests (preferably with movies with lots of bass like War of the Worlds) listen for any usual sounds from the shakers. It is sometimes useful to power off your subwoofer and disable your main surround speakers (if your receiver lets you turn them off and still have sound going to the subwoofer RCA output). If you hear any clanking or popping noises during the big explosions then you have the gain on the shaker amp set too high and you need to back it off some until the strange noises stop. Also you should check the temperature of the shakers with your hand after a decent amount of bass material to see if they are getting warm. The reason the small shakers only handle 25 watts and the big shakers handle 50 watts is that the big ones have nice heatsink fins that keep the shaker cool.

Nickj4384

02-02-06, 03:02 AM

I was wondering which Y splitter to get to hook up my plate amp and sub from the receiver. My receiver has a sub out and right now I have it hooked up to my LFE subwoofer via MonsterBass 300 interconnect. Do I need two Y-Splitters or just one, which type of Y-Splitter, and am I supposed to connect it to the Line In RCA's on my amp? Also, where can i acquire these parts (Radioshack, Best Buy, etc.)?

As you can tell, I'm very new to this and I do appreciate the help thus far. :o

dshmel

02-05-06, 09:35 AM

I was wondering which Y splitter to get to hook up my plate amp and sub from the receiver ... Also, where can i acquire these parts (Radioshack, Best Buy, etc.)?

Like cables, you spend a little or a lot on connectors and adapters. I have used splitters from Monster, AR (Acoustic Research) and Audioquest. I have had good luck with all of them. The Audioquest splitters are made very well and have a secure connection - but at a premium price. Stay away from real cheap and flimsy connectors and adapters. You don't want a $2 connector to be the weak link in your system. Best Buy will have what you need since they sell both Monster & AR. Their stores with a Magnolia HT inside also carry Audioquest.

kurney

02-05-06, 08:28 PM

^^ best buy actually has a good sale on rca adaptors right now! i've got everything needed, i believe, to get my aura shakers set up....i'm wondering how important an fmod is in the whole setup? i ask, b/c it's the only item i've yet to find locally.

jvgillow

02-05-06, 08:31 PM

i'm wondering how important an fmod is in the whole setup? i ask, b/c it's the only item i've yet to find locally.

Fmod isn't needed for the initial setup--go ahead and connect everything without an Fmod and see how you like the shaking. If you think it's happening too often, with higher bass frequencies that ought not be shaking, then an Fmod would help you. The common 80 Hz crossover is fine for some people, but others cut it back for the shakers to 50 Hz or even lower.

Jeremy Snow

02-22-06, 11:52 AM

After reading through this thread, I just installed 8 Aura Pro Shakers into my couch. This simply the coolest thing that I have ever done. I am fortunate that my Sony DA50ES receiver has two sub outs. I used this amplifier: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-806

I wired the shakers into a 8 ohm load.

4+4=8
||=4
4+4=8 \
(4+4=8)
4+4=8 /
||=4
4+4=8

I get 270+ watts into 8 ohms which I can tell you is more than enough for my couch which measures 16' in total length, and is definitely enough to have scared my dog off the couch!

I watched my HD tivo copy of I-Robot and WOW, that was a lot of fun! :) :)

My couch appears to be very well made. All wood joints are glued and stapled so long term use should not be a problem at all. Time will tell of course.

Jeremy

kurney

02-23-06, 04:12 PM

8?
i've only got 2, couldn't imagine 8!

MIKE4211

03-01-06, 11:54 AM

I recieved 2 std. 25 watt shakers yesterday and installed them in loveseat and have to say they really add to movie and make videogames feel more intense I have them installed vertically on the backrest part of the seat they do vibrate the whole seat would making a board to attach to the bottom under the coushion enhance the overall experience

MississippiMan

03-01-06, 05:41 PM

Just a word of advisement here from a insider.

Aura is pulling back from "Directly" distributing it's Pro Shakers to all but the few who can order "Pallets". That is approx. 430 units (215 pair.) The Standards are still available at current pricing levels, but are due to get whammied soon as well.

Brother tremblers, what is coming a significant price increase due to the loss of "Dealers/Distributors" being able to get quantity pricing on orders less than 144 units. Something in the range $5.50 to $7.50 per unit, ($11.00 to $15.00 increase per pair.) and that's at the wholesale level. Even a Client like Parts Express is not immune from this latest development

Parts Express has sold the product at the lowest price anywhere @ $37.50 per unit discounted retail, 29.95 ea. wholesale to acknowledged Wholesale Outlets. That is now over, on both counts, despite they're not having related such on their web site, Wholesale or otherwise. I know this because I just today tried to by 64 units "Direct" from Aura and was refused that option, and via Parts Express I still could not do so without taking the additional $5.50 hit for each. :( Oh, they were very apoligetic, and somewhat chargined as well, but they wern't about to take a hit for me, and I've bought zillions.

I know many are still using the Standard Auras when they can, but guess what.....the days of those truly cheap Tactiles are about defunct as well. Scour EBay auctions and obscure Outlets and buy any of either variety for the old prices while some might be available. Aura did a pretty good job of waiting until existing supplies were depleted before relating all this to major suppliers, so some of them are also mightily PO'd.

But we all are to blame because more today than ever before, demand has risen, and Aura knows that with the Pros, they have a product that is still far more affordable than the BKII or Clarks. The only really good news in all this is that my Engineer acquaintance @ Aura has said that they have just recently specified and included an upgrade in the magnet structure in the Pros, resulting in more Ft.Lb. per Sq. In. at less wattage supplied. Something along a 35% increase in efficiancy is reported. Power handling is also increased by about the same percentage. All new orders shipped at the Distribution level will be these new units.

Nothing presented here is privileged info, and is offered as information important primarily to those DIY'ers sitting at the edge of the fence at present. Take advantage of it and do your discount shopping "yesterday", or don't say you were not advised to do so, at some later date. I myself found only "Pallet Loads" at the price I formally paid, but I only searched 2-3 engines and 10-12 major Distribution links, sometime after overt frustration set in. :mad: So it may already be a moot issue. But perhaps not for those seeking only 2-4 units from "Auctioneers" or small Discount Houses.

Either way...., there it is.

miltimj

03-01-06, 06:48 PM

That stinks.. thanks for the heads up, MMan. I'm glad I got 8 pairs of standards last year, though is still second guess whether they can shake two risers (8 standard Auras each).

wolfyncsu7

03-09-06, 11:07 AM

Just got my first Buttkicker LFE kit yesterday. I've been searching through the forums trying to understand how to get the best effect. I'm using a cheaply set-up riser (3/4" plywood on top of 3 rows of 3 cinder blocks each).

I mounted the buttkicker to the underside middle of the platform and it works pretty well, but I'm wondering if for my setup there isn't something I could do to make it better:

1) Right now I'm just using the cheap interconnect cables that came with the kit. The Audioholics review mentions getting better interconnects. Has anyone compared the difference between using better cables? Is it worth upgrading?

2) I still have the 5 isolators that came with the kit and I'm not using them. Should I use some kind of isolation between the cinder blocks and the platform?

dshmel

03-09-06, 08:12 PM

but I'm wondering if for my setup there isn't something I could do to make it better

I own 4 BK amps and 5 LFE units. I have one unit mounted directly to the underside of each of 4 recliners (actually the 2 reclining sections of a couch and the 2 sections of a love seat). I will tell you that this is the best installation method to get the full impact of the system. Mounting the units to a riser or the floor simply wastes too much of the kinetic energy.

If you must do this you need to isolate the platform from main floor.

What about the 5th LFE unit? I plan on mounting it in tandem with the existing unit on my reclining section of the couch.

humbland

03-09-06, 11:13 PM

hi dshmel and other shaker people,
i just recieved my BK kit.
i have 2 ?s.

where to get a second LFE unit for a reasonable price online?

i would like to mount directly to the back of recliners.
how did you do it? and what extra hardware will i need?
thanks,
eric

Darin

03-10-06, 07:04 AM

I've bought zillions.
You've GOT to be their biggest customer. :D

Maybe these extra ones I bought weren't such a bad investment after all. ;)

wolfyncsu7

03-10-06, 09:33 AM

One more question.... If you have the buttkicker attached to the underside of a wooden platform, is it recommended to isolate the entire riser from the floor or just the wooden platform from its support/ legs?

lowspeed

03-14-06, 01:31 PM

I have the following amp

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-793

(250W into 4ohms 150W into 8ohms I would assume something in between for 6 ohms)

How should i connect 6 of these:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=299-027
(the aura 25W RMS Shakers)

I have 2 couches so i was thinking 3 for each ...

Would connecting 3 in series then the other 3 in series and parralel them for a total of 6 ohms and an even current ?

-----------
| |
O O
| |
O O
| |
O O
| |
-----------

Thanks!

miltimj

03-14-06, 04:37 PM

wolfyncsu7,

You just need to isolate the riser itself from the floor somehow. Either of the ways that you mention will work, though isolating the riser from its legs seems more difficult.

Lowspeed,

Yes, that's how I'd do that.

lowspeed

03-15-06, 09:55 PM

Thanks,

SO now i'm all happy ready to put in the shakers, i flip the sofa and ... Almost no flat plywood areas !

Now i need to attach some plywood to the metal base.

I hope it's all worth it :-p

1st Cav

03-16-06, 01:29 PM

I posted this question in the Dedicated Theater Construction forum, but haven't recieved any replies so I thought I would post it here.

Quick question for those in the know. I'm currently constructing a 9'7"W x 7'7" deep riser for 3 Coaster Studio chairs and one buttkicker. I'm just curious as to how important it is to fill the riser with insulation (I purchased two rolls of R13) when mounting a buttkicker in the middle.

My other question is, if I use the insulation, should I put something on the carpet before laying it down (4mil painters plastic sheet?)? My joists are 2x8's and the outside frame is made of 2x10's so of course there is a 2" gap between the bottom of the joists and the carpet. I have a small cutout in the rear left side of the "main frame (2x10)" due to an air vent on the floor, so I don't plan to insulate that particular gap.

Would I be missing out on anything by NOT insulating? Better yet, would not insulating the riser affect how my buttkicker performs? Sorry for asking so many questions, but I can see the light at the end of this LOOONG HT construction tunnel and want to finish without any major regrets.

Thanks

miltimj

03-17-06, 11:01 AM

1st Cav,

MississippiMan has a few suggestions on how to build risers with tactile transducers. See his posts in this thread, such as #567 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5377295&&#post5377295), #733 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5629808&&#post5629808), and his several posts after #733.

lowspeed

03-19-06, 01:16 PM

Hey all,

Just wanted to report back ...i connected the shakers... and they add so much to the experience. Definitely worth the time , effort (and money).

It's just way too cool ...

Thanks for all the help.

http://x11.putfile.com/3/7718533689-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7718533689.jpg&s=x11)http://x11.putfile.com/3/7718552735-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7718552735.jpg&s=x11)http://x11.putfile.com/3/7718563550-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7718563550.jpg&s=x11)http://x11.putfile.com/3/7718575195-thumb.jpg (http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=3/7718575195.jpg&s=x11)

Kevin12586

03-31-06, 10:58 AM

I have 4 of the Aura bass shakers (not the pro ones, 25 watts per) with 2 each in series sot hat I have 8 ohms and 50 watts per channel, can anyone tell me of a good amp that I can use for this? The best I can find is this one (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-792) which is 75 watts/channel into 8 ohms. Can anyone recommend something else that may fill my needs?

One other thing, the shakers are 25 watts rms/35 watts max, am I just worrying for no reason if I used the above amp?

Thanks

MaskedMan

03-31-06, 01:56 PM

Kevin12586 :
I have been running 6 ( 3 in the couch, 2 in the loveseat and 1 in the chair) of the standard Aura's with this exact amp for the last 4 months. As long as you have them hooked up correctly ( wire the pairs in series and then the 2 pairs in parallel back to the amp ) , keep the amp level control down a little bit and are not running them at max power 100% of the time, You should not have any issues running 4 with this amp.

Kevin12586

03-31-06, 09:22 PM

Thanks Masked, but since I only have 4, if I connect each pair in series, why would i then connect them in parallel? Each pair in series is 8 ohms and 50 watts per pair.

MaskedMan

03-31-06, 09:58 PM

Kevin12586:

The amp only has a single channel output, so all 4 aura's would connect to the single output on the amp.

2 aura's in series should give you an 8 ohm load, then the 2 pairs with 8 ohm loads wired back to the amp in parallel should give you a 4 ohm load on the amp.

Kevin12586

04-01-06, 07:16 PM

Only 1 input? I didn't know that. If I used this amp I would wire each pair in series and then combine the negative to the negative and the positive to the positive and run that to the amp? If I send the amp 4 ohms, how much power would I be sending to each speaker?

MaskedMan

04-01-06, 11:32 PM

Kevin12586:

The amp has both a Left and Right input, it combines the 2 and outputs to single speaker output. The amp is rated a 156 watts at 4 ohms, so you are looking at around 39 watts per shaker. As long as you dont keep the amp cranked all the way up , you should not damage the Aura's. You are correct on the wiring.

AMP + ________________________________
| |
+ +
AURU AURA
- -
| |
+ +
AURA AURA
- -
| |
AMP - ________________________________

PartsExpress also has a 100 watt subwoofer amp (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-802) on their web site.
You would still connect the Aura's the same way and the power going to each shaker would be around 25 watts .

I started out with 4 shakers and choose the bigger amp so I would have the extra power in case I wanted to add more. Which I ended doing by adding another pair to my setup.

Greg

Kevin12586

04-02-06, 03:01 AM

Thanks Masked, I don' know how I missed that one. Which do you think would be the better amp for my setup, 4 shakers, each set wired in series?

MaskedMan

04-02-06, 10:00 AM

Kevin12586

04-02-06, 04:16 PM

Thanks Greg, I will get the bigger amp :)

cbaker

04-07-06, 11:23 AM

Ok, I tried to read through all 38 pages to find my answer but I did not see my particular configuration:

2 standard bass shakers

Dayton SA70 Amp with the following specs:

Specifications: Measured power output: 45 watts RMS into 8 ohms @ 0.1% THD, 70 watts RMS into 4 ohms @ 0.2% THD. Signal to noise ratio: 90 dB (A-weighted).

What the proper wiring? Parallel or series? And why? (to educate myself).

AV Doogie

04-07-06, 11:33 AM

cmbehan

04-07-06, 11:45 AM

I offerred to outfit my sister's new home theater that's being built in her basement...basically just pick out the equipment and install it.

Luckily she at least had her electrician run wires, so I've got a good start.

Yesterday, she informed me that she bought 2 sets of 4 theater recliners with built-in bass shakers. Apparently she'd decided on this earlier because she had the electrician run speaker wire to the wall next to the recliners.

So I'm working with 2 runs of 14 gauge, each needing to power 4 shakers.

I'm going to use the series/parallel method mentioned here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7045575&&#post7045575 and that should work just fine, but I'm now looking for what amp to get to power this whole thing.

I've seen many people use these plate subwoofer amps, but this is going to be sitting on a rack in the front of the theater and she wants it to look nice.

I guess my real question is what amp to use and if you recommend a sub amp, then how do you mount it or dress it up so that it looks like it fits on an entertainment rack?

Thanks!

J. L.

04-07-06, 12:08 PM

You always want to run equipment in parallel from a power amp. Just make sure that the power amp is capable of supplying power at half the impedance rating....which is what happens when you parallel two identical loads.
Your advice, although true in situations where the amplifier is capable, does not help in this case.

Two "four ohm" shakers in parallel will result in a "two ohm" load. This is too low for his amplifier and is likely to cause it damage. If it has overload protection it might shut itself down, if it does not, it might overheat and destroy itself. In either case, unless you know it will work with a 2 ohm load, do not take the chance. The amp's demise could be dramatic. (goes up in smoke and/or flames)
Trust me, if the amp was good for 2 ohm loads, the manufacturer would boast of it in the description since it would be a major selling point.

On the other hand, two shakers in series will result in an "eight ohm" load on the amplifier, and since it is rated at 45 watts into 8 ohms, each shaker will get half of that power delivered to them - 22.5 wats. (Just about a perfect match and more than enough power to shake things up plenty)

So... in this case, with two shakers, and that amplifier, cbaker should wire the shakers in series.

Joe L.

cbaker

04-07-06, 12:14 PM

Your advice, although true in situations where the amplifier is capable, does not help in this case.

Two "four ohm" shakers in parallel will result in a "two ohm" load. This is too low for his amplifier is is likely to cause it damage.

On the other hand, two shakers in series will result in an "eight ohm" load on the amplifier, and since it is rated at 45 watts into 8 ohms, each shaker will get half of that power delivered to them - 22.5 wats. (Just about a perfect match and more than enough power to shake things up plenty)

So... in this case, with two shakers, and that amplifier, cbaker should wire the shakers in series.

Joe L.

Thanks for the information and the explanation. Much appreciated!

MississippiMan

04-07-06, 12:53 PM

Your advice, although true in situations where the amplifier is capable, does not help in this case.

Joe L.

Just "pipin' in here.

I was at the Airport, recieved notice about cbaker's question on my Trio, and the resulting advice to parallel, and "poke" drafted a nice response warning of exactly the same situation the Joe did. Posted it too. It never showed up. :confused:

But the timeliness of Joe's response saved the day! :)

Just thought I'd relate this as well. Soon to come, a 4 Platform, 32 Shaker project w/ 800 watts x 4. The Platforms will be isolated from the SubFloor, and the Subfloor isolated from the 1st Floor Ceiling joists, and the 1st Floor Ceiling Drywall (..HT is over the Kitchen/Brkfst Rm.) isolated from the Ceiling joists as well by Brown Sound Insulated Sheathing. This will be the largest tactile system I've done for Residential use, and incorporate most all aspects of installation that has been discussed on this very useful thread.

Question is; Should I post what is to come on a new Thread so dedicated, of load up this one with the several detailed posting that will be required to relate everything to the point DIY'ers can avail themselves of it all.?

Though I'd ask so as not to assume.

J. L.

04-07-06, 01:18 PM

Soon to come, a 4 Platform, 32 Shaker project w/ 800 watts x 4.

...snip...

Question is; Should I post what is to come on a new Thread so dedicated, or load up this one with the several detailed posting that will be required to relate everything to the point DIY'ers can avail themselves of it all.?

Though I'd ask so as not to assume.I think something that awesome deserves its own thread, rather than be burried in this one.

You might post an paragraph or two in this thread with a short description, and a link to the 32 shaker stand-alone thread for those reading this thread. Those would let most interested folks find it.

Looking forward to it... hope you took lots of pictures :D

Joe L.

jenielsen

04-07-06, 02:23 PM

I am firm believer in that its always better to have extra power. If you go with the larger amp, in the future if you deicide to add more shakers all you would need to do is add the shakers and turn up the level control on the amp. With the lower powered amp you probably would need to replace it if you wanted to add more shakers.

Either one would work with 4 shakers. Going with the larger amp gives you some headroom for later expansion if needed. It looks like the price difference between the two amps is $10, but the larger amp has free shipping so the total cost ends up being about the same for either one of them.

If you are sure that you never are going to add any more shakers, go with the 100 watt amp , but if you think you might add more shakers then go with the larger amp ( and keep the level control turned down a bit until you add more shakers ) .
Greg

I'm curious, but for $10, why wouldn't you go with an even bigger amp (156w @4ohm) that PE has to offer here (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-792) ?

Also MaskedMan, will you provide a schematic or picture of your six shakers running through all 3 of your seats? I'm curious how you did the 3-2-1 thing, as I will be doing a similar arrangement. Thanks!

MaskedMan

04-07-06, 09:44 PM

jenielsen:

I have them wired in two rows of 3. Each row has all three wired in series and the two rows are wired parrallel back to the amp.

AMP + _______________________________
| |
+ +
AURA AURA
- -
| |
+ +
AURA AURA
- -
| |
+ +
AURA AURA
- -
| |
AMP - ________________________________

[ Loveseat ] [ chair ]
[ 2 - AURA's ] [ 1 - Aura ]

[ Couch ]
[ 3 - AURA's ]

The loveseat in the back is on a 10" riser and speaker cable for the shaker in the chair runs from the riser under the carpet to the chair.

cmbehan

04-10-06, 10:16 AM

MississippiMan

04-10-06, 10:46 AM

There is no way to "gussie up" a Plate Amplifier. If your Equipment Rack has a solid back anywhere on it, that is then the appropriate location to "hang' such a amplifier.

If by a "rack'" you mean a situation where the amplifier has "Dog Ears' that accomodate the screwing of each side of the peice of equipment to "Side Rails", there are many Pro-Amp choices to offer. A smaller "Crown" Stereo main amplifier comes directly to mind

If by "rack" you mean Stereo Equipment Furniture w/adjustable shelving, a great Choice is the AudioSource Amp 200 or the much beefier Amp 300.

Both are "Stereo", and have exceptionally clean, black faceplates. The latter also has both a Volume and Balance control on the front.

cmbehan

04-10-06, 11:31 AM

MississippiMan

04-10-06, 12:08 PM

Yes, but I'd Parallel/Series instead. You'll acheive the same 4 Ohm rating, but each leg of the Series will be twice as capable "Power wise".

But either way, your headed down the right path to gettin' her "All shook up"

cmbehan

04-10-06, 12:14 PM

affeking

04-10-06, 03:56 PM

I've read through pages and pages of this thread, and I'm still not too sure how to wire my setup. I hate to do this, but I could use some guidence on this configuration...

I have:
4 Aura Shakers (25W version)
a 10-15yr old prologic receiver of unknown power

On the speaker terminals on the back of the receiver, the 4 sets of terminals representing front A and B are circled and labeled "4 - 16 Ohms".

What I'd idealy like to do is have 2 shakers wired to the A bank of fronts (one on the left terminal, one on the right) and the other two on the B bank. This way, I could turn off B when not in use (usually it won't be).

If I plug each shaker seperately into A/B left and right, can I consider them to all be in series internally? Or would the L/R be series wired parallel among A and B? I'm not sure how the receiver is internally wired. Also, does the label saying 4 - 16 ohms indicate A and B are able to each accept a load of 4 - 16ohms, or is that cummulative?

Very confused - please help!

Thanks,
Jeff

MississippiMan

04-10-06, 08:55 PM

Jeff,

Virtually all Receivers that can handle a 4 Ohm load on "A" will wind up in a series circuit if both "A" & "B" are labled to accept 4 Ohms each. The result is a load of 8 Ohms. Very few Receivers have ever presented the ability to carry a 2 Ohm load.

Otherwise, the usual circumstance is that if both "A" & "B" are employed simultainiously, and the Receiver's "A" or "B" outputs are limited to a 8 Ohm loads individually, they (...both "A" & "B") must have speaker loads of no less than 16 Ohms if both are employed so that when both are engaged, and a parallel circuit is accomplished, the resulting load drops to no less than 8 ohms.

So the question is.....Which type of Amp do you have?

Easy to judge. Just hook up speakers to "A", turn on some sound, then engage "B" with no load connected. If your sound plays on, your "A" & "B" speaker outputs are "paralleled". If the sound goes away when "B" is pushed, they are in series.

Do the test as prescribed, and you'll then know the answer to the rest of your questions.

My head hurts. :confused:

affeking

04-12-06, 02:46 PM

MississippiMan

04-12-06, 03:34 PM

Thanks MississippiMan.

Based on your test, I believe my setup is parallel. I can turn A and B on and off independently of one another.

So - it sounds like my safest bet is to wire 1 pair in series to L and the other pair in series to R, both under "A". That would yield an 8 ohm load on each channel. If I were to wire 1 to A-L, A-R, B-L, and A-R I would end up with a 2 ohm load per channel, which would stress / kill my amp. Sound right?

Thanks for the help,
Jeff

You got it! Are these going into Risers? If so, be sure to wire each independent line to each Tactile to an accessable union point, where you then run a single line back to your amp. Thats a good way to do the wiring anyway, so as not to have a series circuit with unusally long legs. Takes less wire too.

affeking

04-12-06, 10:48 PM

Nope, no risers here. Unfortunately, my theater is in a basement with a somewhat low ceiling. I'll have to make due affixing them to the bottom of my couch and recliner. I'll probabliy still do something similar to what you were saying, however.

On another note - I'm now thinking of wiring the shakers to the REAR speaker terminals. That way, I can adjust the delay to synch it more closely with my sub. Hopefully I haven't just gotten myself into a whole new headache scenerio, but I don't think so. The rear posts say "8Ohms" by them, so I think my previous plan would still stand.

By the way MM, I flipped a few pages back and saw a shaker setup you wired. WOW! Nice work - that must be one heck of a theater.

Jeff

soul

04-15-06, 01:30 AM

MississippiMan

04-15-06, 04:54 AM

how does a vibrating shakers work? a vibrating shaker is a shaker that can be use to mix things..examples like paint inside a container or poster colour.... :) pls help me..i need this urgently for my project...a big one...thanks ay.... ;)

They use an electric motor, a plate isolated with springs, and a connecting rod that's attached to the armature shaft of the motor (...like a crankshaft. ) The Motor's shaft spins, the connecting arm moves back a forth (...and rotates up & down with some...) and the platform the paint sits on shakes like crazy at extremely high speeds.

Some are quite simple affairs that look like a open top container with straps across the top to hold the paint can in place. Others look like a washing machine with a "Splash" Door that opens to show a similar holding container. When you see both examples, you usually also see where a mess has occurred when a Paint Can lid has flown off. That's why the "Washing machine" type is the one you usually see at a Home Depot or Lowes or Menards. You'll see the more simpler type at a dedicated Paint Store. Go to both and check out the mechanism.

davyg

04-16-06, 02:33 PM

Is it possible to add a pair of 25w aura shakers to a
"Home Theater In A Box" set like the Sony DAV-DZ100?

The amplifier is integrated into the DVD player, and a passive sub
is connected directly to the DVD player AMP output.

thanks :)

MississippiMan

04-17-06, 06:05 PM

Nope, no risers here. Unfortunately, my theater is in a basement with a somewhat low ceiling.

By the way MM, I flipped a few pages back and saw a shaker setup you wired. WOW! Nice work - that must be one heck of a theater.

Jeff

Thanks.

Here's a copy of the diagram I sent you. It's Primitive. Coarse. Unrefined.

Uncivilized!

Waddyawanfernuthin' ? :p Besides. It works, and saves on the wire Glut and circuit inefficiency.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Business%20Photos%20to%20send/ChairSeriesDiagram.jpg

Crown of Iron

05-01-06, 02:42 PM

J. L.

05-01-06, 03:00 PM

It also looked as though there were MANY outputs on the amp I listed above, I was wondering if that might change how 6 shakers should be wired up.

Sorry for bothering everyone, please forgive my lameness!The amplifier you linked to uses those binding posts as INPUTS when used in line with full range speakers. The actual OUTPUT is via a pair of wires that are attached to the circuit board behind the front panel. So... you do not use any of the binding posts at all to feed your shakers.

The following link (borrowed from another AVS post) shows the internal wires on a similar amplifier. (the wires labeled as going to the driver are red and black on this amplifier, they could be any color. Instead of feeding a subwoofer driver, they will instead feed the series paralel combination of shakers)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=56695

I'll let someone else show the specific 6 shaker wiring... I know I've done it several times in the past on at least one or two different threads.

Joe L.

MississippiMan

05-02-06, 07:55 AM

Hello guys!

I'm still having trouble comprehending how exactly I should wire up 6 Aura Pro's. I am going to get this amp to drive them: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-794

I have done up a horrendous picture of my setup at the bottom of the post, if anyone would be willing to "fill in the blanks" that would be so so great! I just can't figure out what some people mean "wiring them in series AND parallel" it's just all so confusing! (Yes, I'm sure I'm dumb as well)

It also looked as though there were MANY outputs on the amp I listed above, I was wondering if that might change how 6 shakers should be wired up.

Sorry for bothering everyone, please forgive my lameness!

Awwww, that just comes from being a Mid-Southerner.

Since I'm based in Memphis, give me a call. My number is in a PM waiting. But don't tarry. I'm headed off to a 16 day trip this Sunday.

Here is a diagram to study. Do two circuits of three tactiles as shown, combine both the Positive and Negative wires to each other respectively at the Amp, and your 12 Ohm Load will parrallel down to 6 Ohms.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v425/MississippiMan/Business%20Photos%20to%20send/3TactilesinSeries.jpg

msettles78

05-16-06, 04:33 PM

Bob vdi

New to the Forum! Very interesting stuff. I am new to all this but very interested. I have 3 pair, 6, Aura 25 watt shakers. Literature says don't exceed 25 watts.

I have learned here that I can use an old pioneer receiver to power my shakers. Could someone give me more detail. I have a large sofa, a recliner and a love seat in an "L" shape. Plan on placing 3 shakers on the large sofa, 1 in the recliner and 2 on the love sofa.

How exactly do I wire this all together an not exceed the Watt ratings. The receiver I will be using is a Pioneer VSX-305. 60 watts per channel. I does have an a and b channels.

It would be great to get a hand drawn Schematic if someone is savy. My main receiver is a JVC RX-302B. 7.1 - however I am only using Front-2, center, rear-2 and sub,12" MTX SW2

So the big question is, What do I use to power the shakers with? The extra outputs on the JVC 7.1, the extra Pioneer receiver, or the left and right line out jacks on the back of the MTX sub.

Any help greatly appreciated. One of your hand drawn schemes would be great.

Thanks.

Msettles

Icedtea515

05-18-06, 11:24 AM

Wasn't sure which thread would get a reply so I posted it here as well:

I graduated college in May and am currently working on a home theatre in the house we just bought. I currently have 3 nice recliners that I'd like to put bass shakers on but have a couple questions. I understand how to wire the whole mess but I'm not sure on what amp to use.

Was going to use 3 aura bass shakers: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...tnumber=299-027

Then wire them in a series to a sub plate amp that I would mount on some MDF. My question is what amp would be the most cost effective since I'm trying to keep it as economical as possible (best bang for the buck)?

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...tnumber=300-784

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...tnumber=300-802

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/show...tnumber=300-792

Are these compatible with wiring 3 shakers in a series. And/or do I need an amp with more wattage or would one of these do a pretty good job?

Thanks for all the help, it's greatly appreciated,

-Bobby

miltimj

05-18-06, 11:44 AM

Basically, any amplifier or receiver can handle 3 shakers in series.. that's just 12 ohms, and almost every receiver/amp can handle at worst, 8 ohms (in general, the lower, the better the receiver will need to be).

If you're not planning on getting more of them, then best bang for buck is the cheapest. 70W will drive them just fine for the most part, and you won't run them at max gain. If you want a bit of headroom just in case, or if you're planning on possibly getting more later, then consider the 120W.

Remember that attaching them to the platform/couch to the right amount of torque is the key to getting them to shake with best efficiency.

Icedtea515

05-18-06, 11:52 AM

Thanks a lot, hopefully I'll have time to order them today and get it set up soon!

Icedtea515

05-18-06, 12:45 PM

One last question, if I got the 100w amp:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-802

I could set the low pass crossover to 50hz to filter the signal and I wouldnt have to buy the 50hz FMOD (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=266-250) correct?

Thanks,

-Bobby

Solarbeat

05-19-06, 01:26 PM

Since FMOD crossovers seem to only come in pairs, and most people seem to only use one at a time, does anybody have one (50Hz) they're willing to part with at a reasonable price?

I just installed four aura (standard) shakers in our three-seat couch, and the WAF is very low at this point :) , so I'm hoping that limiting the shaking to <50Hz will help...

miltimj

05-19-06, 03:22 PM

Yes, it's typical for members to sell their 2nd FMODs. In fact, that's how I got mine (sorry I can't help.. mine is 70Hz anyway).

Regarding WAF, that seems typical. Shakers are more of a guy thing it seems. You can just turn them way down when she watches with you and up more with other guys or alone.

affeking

05-19-06, 09:45 PM

OK guys - I'm finally ready to mount my Aura Shakers. I need some advice on the best spot to do so on my recliner and couch.

With difficulty, I think I can install a piece of wood from the front to the back of the wood frame (but not the sides). I'm thinking this might be optimal.

However, I found a spot that seems like it might be OK and much easier. Its actually in the back of the recliner, but its connected directly to the frame and I think would also refer some feedback into the back of the person sitting as well. I'm attaching a couple of photos on which I drew a red circle in the proposed spot. The pics are of the recliner - but the couch has identical innards. I'd be putting one shaker in each seat.

In the pictures, the recliner is tipped so that the reclining portion is touching the ground.

Let me know what you think - thanks!

miltimj

05-21-06, 07:54 AM

That bottom mounting point seems decent. If at all possible, avoid putting them in the backs of furniture. It should feel like the floor is rumbling, not like you're sitting in a bad massage chair...

MShellito

05-23-06, 02:49 PM

Another install question: I'm looking to run 2 shakers, using my old pro-logic Yamaha receiver to power them. Should I wire both of them to get 8 ohms and only run through one channel (left or right) while there is nothing running on the other channel (is that bad for the receiver?), or am I better off running one through the left and one through the right at 4 ohms? Thanks.

Mike

MississippiMan

05-23-06, 04:08 PM

Mike,

Most "Very old" Yamahas could accept a 4 ohm load, but very few of the "middle aged' or "youngin's" can unless they are among the top end of the Model line.

Check the back of the receiver over the Speaker Outputs. If it says A or B 4 Ohms, your in business. Otherwise running only one channel won't hurt your receiver. Just wire the Shakers in series as close to were they both are, returning to the Amp as a single 2-conductor. Adjust the balance control to the extreme left or Right and use that Channel exclusively.

:cool:

petermwilson

05-28-06, 08:20 PM

Hi,

I just picked up a pair of AST-1F-4s on an EBay whim and will read the preceeding pages but perhaps those experienced can tell me whether the following is possible.

For late nite viewing use the DolbyHeadphone DSP from my Denon 5803 and experience the LFE through the Bass Shakers, (perhaps connected to my DefTech SuperCube II sub for wire management convenience) even if I have to uplug when I go livesound. Or is the power in the sub uncontroleable and/or the rest of the idea wont work anyway?

Thanks,
Peter M.

craig john

07-03-06, 06:21 PM

39 pages of posts, 1,164 replies and only one passing reference to Crowson Technologies. (http://www.crowsontech.com/go/crowsontech/3326/en-US/DesktopDefault.aspx)

Why no love for Crowson Technologies?

Craig

BChap

07-08-06, 06:08 PM

I love my Crowsons. Had them for 3 years, actually got a prototype of their amp in 2003 that doesn't even have a logo on it yet. By their own admittance though, Crowsons are not shakers, they are linear actuators. Probably belong in a different thread.

craig john

07-10-06, 07:06 PM

By their own admittance though, Crowsons are not shakers, they are linear actuators. Probably belong in a different thread.

What's the difference? Do shakers shake up and down and "linear actuators" shake back and forth, (or is it side to side?) Does this make a difference in the tactile quality?

Craig

BChap

07-10-06, 11:36 PM

Well I'm no engineer, but according to Crowson they are different because "shakers" try to move a chair by "shaking" something within a housing, like a cylinder with a pistton. Crowsons actually lift the seat up and down directly, like the dbox but without motion codes and very small distances. You don't hear people call dboxes shakers, and neither does Crowson want you to call theirs shakers.

Mr. Poindexter is a dealer for both and posted this explanation:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7326696&highlight=crowson#post7326696

Olappa

07-11-06, 11:35 PM

I have a couple questions...please answer in layman terms as Im quite a novice:

current equipment: Denon AVR reciever and 2 Rel subs at line level.

I am looking into getting 2 Clark Synthesis Transducers (platinum), rated at 150-250 W each at 4 ohm. Clark recommended a CTS Ta2135 amp, or a Crown XLS-202 amp.

1: any other Amp recommendations (at low cost)?

2: how the HELL would I adjust the crossover for the Clarks? neither of the above amps has crossover control, the buttkicker amp crossover is very limited, and lastly (this is where Im a true novice) what device do I need that would control the crossover - which is it called, a "crossover" or "preamp" or what is it? As you can see, Im lost.

Your input is very appreciated....I can't wait to get the Clarks, when I finally figure out how to set them up.

lvis

07-12-06, 11:14 AM

Hello,

Wondering if anybody has any comparisons between the regular Auras vs the Aura pros? im just wondering because im looking to setup something for my "C" shaped sofa (chaise, loveseat,sofa) and was thinking of putting in 2 reg Auras underneath each section (6 total)....or would 1 Aura pro each section be better? (3 total) Im asking cos 1 reg aura is 10lbs/ft while the Aura pro is 30lb/ft which seems a bit stronger no?

thanks

im a newbie at this.

also...how would u hookup 3 auras/or 6 auras for 4ohm or higher? thanks

miltimj

07-12-06, 03:26 PM

miltimj

07-12-06, 03:35 PM

lvis,

6 regular auras would be more than enough for a sofa. I have 3 in mine and that's plenty. The standards are also quite a bit cheaper than the pros. If you're going to mount it to a riser (recommended), I'd go with pros though.

There are plenty of examples of wiring diagrams in this thread. 3 in series would be 12 ohms. Another 3 in series and a combination together in parallel is 6 ohms.

Olappa

07-12-06, 04:04 PM

Olappa,

Those amps would work great for that application. You can get an FMOD inline RCA crossover. Search for "FMOD" at partsexpress.com. Somewhere around 50 or 70Hz low pass is what you want. That means that low bass frequencies above that point begin to be "blocked" (gradual fade out). Too low and you won't feel much shaking.. too high and it will seem awkward when James Earl Jones's voice can "shake the floor". A crossover fades out the volume above or below a given point, and a preamp feeds a "low level" signal (not amplified, so you can't directly hook speakers up to it) to an amplifier, which boosts the signal so you can connect speakers to it. Receivers are a combination of both.

Thanks for the reply....I finally perused this thread last night and "discovered" the F-mod.

Is there any other way to modulate crossover on my transducers externally (like I would my rels), and not rely on my recievers crossover? With more control than the F-mod (smaller increments, wider range)? I like to adjust things till they feel "just right".

miltimj

07-12-06, 04:34 PM

Thanks for the reply....I finally perused this thread last night and "discovered" the F-mod.

Is there any other way to modulate crossover on my transducers externally (like I would my rels), and not rely on my recievers crossover? With more control than the F-mod (smaller increments, wider range)? I like to adjust things till they feel "just right".
Something like the Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro (BFD) can do just that. It's also typically used for equalizing the LFE/sub channel due to the often unavoidable acoustical issues in basically every room. Low frequencies are especially susceptible due to their long wavelength. The BFD is overkill for this task (a single crossover), but it's highly adjustable. It may make more sense to split the sub output to go to a sub and shakers, and use a plate amp with variable crossover on it. It won't give you different crossover types (e.g. 6/12/18/24dB rolloff), but it will let you finetune the point it crosses over.

Olappa

07-12-06, 07:10 PM

So you're basically suggesting a plate amp with crossover control?

Thanks for all your help so far BTW.

petermwilson

07-12-06, 07:28 PM

Hi,

My plan is to use an old receiver as an amp with a split from the headphone jack on my Denon 5803 which creates DolbyHeadpnone DSP.

I'm hoping to hear a 5.0 from the HPs and get the .1 from a channel (probably the center) for the effect.

I have no desire to use it in place of my sub under normal (not latenite) conditions.

The other thing to decide is where to install it on a Lazyboy recliner and if one will be sufficent as it comes in pairs.

Peter M.

Peter M.

jvgillow

07-12-06, 07:37 PM

As a possible alternative to the Fmod,

The Nady CX-22SW stereo crossover would let you have low-pass adjustment from ~250 Hz down to 50 Hz for a pretty cheap price. Slope is -12 db. Only the 50 - 80 Hz range would really be useful and you might decide you want something that goes lower than 50 Hz for cutoff.

You would only be using one channel but no problem there. The high-pass (subsonic) filter is defeatable so that way you wouldn't lose the stuff below 30 Hz.

Having a fixed frequency Fmod isn't a bad thing though. Crossover for shakers is usually a set-and-forget thing to personal taste. However, I have heard of some people that set the crossover lower during music than they do for movies. Mine are set at 80 Hz along with the subwoofer and I haven't been inclined to purchase a lower frequency Fmod.

Getrusty

07-13-06, 01:39 PM

hmmm interesting

miltimj

07-13-06, 02:15 PM

Olappa

07-13-06, 06:56 PM

Yes, Olappa, that's what I'm suggesting. Jeremy has a great suggestion as well. It depends whether you already have an amp to power them with as to which option may work better for you.

80Hz was a bit high for me... If I had a variable crossover it'd probably be around 60Hz, actually. For music I don't want any shaking, so I just turn the amp (receiver right now) off.

Thanks for the advice. This forum has been a great help, and I have learned a lot over the last few days.

At this point, everything is pointing towards this amp, the Dayton SA240 from partsexpress, linked by forum member Johnla. Its a pretty good match for a Clark synthesis Gold or platinum transducer in terms of power and price. And it has an adjustable crossover between 40-180 hz - enough to fine tune the transducers to my tastes. The final deciding factor for me was the lack of a fan. I don't have any fans in my HT, and I didn't want to start now.

affeking

07-14-06, 10:41 AM

If you look back a couple pages, you'll see a pic of my first try at mounting the Shakers to my Recliner and couch. Well, it was worth a shot, but didn't really work out. I'd say 75% of the shaking takes place in the back of the seat as opposed to the bottom.

So I'm now trying to figure out alternatives. The easiest also appears to be the most obvious to me now. The seats all ultimately connect to a metal frame that is the sole contact with the floor. The frame run the perimeter of each seat. What I'm thinking of doing is simply taking a piece of plywood the entire size of each frame, and screwing it into the metal frame. Then I'd place the shaker on top. Is this what most people actually do, or am I missing something? My only concern is that I might not get as much tactile response with the shaker between the couch and the hard floor. If that makes sense.

Jeff

miltimj

07-14-06, 01:58 PM

There are many who have mounted plywood across the bottom, and then mounted the shakers to them, with good results. I want to say somewhere around page 10-ish.. (sorry, don't have the time to search right now)

affeking

07-15-06, 07:23 PM

Hey Tim -

I think I see the installs you are refering to. They are slightly different than what I'm thinking of trying. Basically, they seem to attach flush with the frame of the seat. Enough so that the shakers are actually facing down and have enough clearence. For my install, the seat would literally be sitting on top of the plywood. I'd attach it to the bottom of the metal frame.

Anyway, its probably the same result, so I'll just give it a whirl. I'll post some new pics after I'm done to hopefully help others.

Thanks
Jeff

bradleycox

07-17-06, 08:57 PM

Why is there little mention of the butt shakers? Are the Aura shakers that much better?
Bradley

Huskerfan

07-17-06, 09:06 PM

affeking,

Check my signature line and I have some pictures of my shakers mounted if it helps you out.

Ford Prefect

07-22-06, 02:54 PM

Why is there little mention of the butt shakers? Are the Aura shakers that much better?
Bradley

Aura shakers are more frequently discussed because they are cheaper than Buttkickers.

I think most people would agree that Buttkickers are better than Auras, on a per-unit basis.

However, opinions will be split when you consider Auras vs Buttkickers on a per-dollar basis (i.e. which offers the better value for money).

/FP

MississippiMan

07-23-06, 12:38 AM

ButtKickers, when properly mounted onto substantial material, can produce 'realistic Bass shudder and thump. Mounted to seating they produce a Bass enema that is decidedly NOT realistic. That some actually find it stimulating is no surprise. It's a sensitive area prone to such reactions. :eek:

But the real issue is money. marketing it with a cheap ass amp that effectually costs a bundle, and works only to power an overpriced device is all that gives it an edge over the Clark Absolute Transducer, a truly well designed device that I also find deplorably overpriced. and they are too big, and mounting is enefectual for many applications.

Auras have no real Cosmically significant advantage excepting that whenever you can dissipate tactile force more evenly by using "cost effective" multiples that are driving at less intense levels individually, but by the weight of sheer numbers are more efficiently "shaking" a larges area of a specific mass instead of the energy being extremely focused, your gonna get a more realistic effect that resembles the intended special effect, instead of some obscene Troll with a 20 lb sledge whose hiding under your chair trying to give you a cheap thrill.

Still, it is all about what you know, and experience. ButtKickers go out the door installed by the Factory under Berklines everyday, and they are hot sellers.

Seems to be a lot of willing Perverts out there sitting back, getting happily goosed. :p But I'll say this, anyone who has tried equally designed systems, power wise, always chooses the "Tactiles' to the BKs. It's obvious I'm no fan of 'seating based' tactile effects, but I do realize that for some, it's that or nothing at all. In those cases, I'm glad they have options. So is their Proctologist too, I'm sure. :D

I prefer 16 Aura Pros arrayed in the Flooring/Platforms, and being driven by ample, high quality power. I get 'em for less than $40.00 ea. and at that price, 16 of 'em cost less than 3 BKs, and can drive the flooring of an entire room to spectacular levels. What I've yet to try is the various filters or such that many now swear by. I need to review this thread to glean that info, for top notch, realistic performance, no matter what the product your using, it what it's all about.

jimmy666

07-28-06, 04:43 PM

i have 2 couches running with 3 shakers each. each couch is the left and right channels of the A outputs. it is rare that i have people sitting on both couches at the same time. to prevent wasted shaking time when i have nobody sitting on one couch, should i turn the balance all the way to the used couch/channel or hook one couch on A and one on B and toggle them on/off as used? which method will i get a better shake/performance out of my amp?

i've decided to not shake an unused couch do to having a shaker die on me today :( now i have to pay for a replacement of a shaker that rarely shook anybody. i guess i learned the hard way. any info you could give me is much appreciated!!

shamus

07-29-06, 02:43 AM

bonehead848

08-08-06, 01:59 PM

new convert in the works here, does anyone have an extra 50 or 70 fmod they would be willing to part with for a reasonable price? Also, how big of difference is there between the pros and the nonpro auras?
Thanks!

ronnyd8719

08-16-06, 01:42 AM

If they have ohms connecting them in series would change the ohms. Putting 5 on one channel would be 40 ohms if they are 8 ohms. I think something would blow. I would think that is the problem with the guy that has them on a recliner. If you can connect one to left channel and one to right the ohms would be lower and that always means more power. If you only have one channel connect it parell and that will improve the power. What is so great about these shakers. Please explain.

MississippiMan

08-16-06, 04:17 AM

Yes...., they are very "Ohm-y". And if one but takes the time to study them carefully, and learn something about the effect they produce and how they can do so optimally, few items can add more appeal to a Home Theater for less expenditure. That's what makes them "great'.

Aura "Pros" & "Standards" both have nominal impedances of 4 Ohms. This rating can drop below 3 Ohms when frequencies below 40 Hz are encountered.

I still don't think anybody who knew anything whatsoever about Audio or "Ohm's Law" would ever series 5 in a row (20 Ohms).

ronnyd8719, higher impedances do not risk "Blowing up" amplifier outputs. The opposite is true. A higher Impedance means less output. However, the practice some employ of using odd numbers of Tactiles is misbegotten, even when based on economics. Why? Because at the price of Aura's, not to "equalize" your Impedance with 1another added unit makes no sense.

Issues arise when someone tries to do too much with just plain too little, be it power or one's budget. To do so with a lack of knowledge just as certain to be fraught with disappointment and failure.

Example: 6 Tactiles (3 in series x 2) presents 2 - 12 ohms loads.

But use 8 and : 8 Tactiles (4 per channel - 2 paralleled (2 Ohms) then series-ed with another 2) = 4 Ohms per channel x 2

Maximum output into minimum Impedance.

Read through this thread. Every misconception and/or lack of information you suffer from has the correct answer. Consider this thread "Tactiles 101" and to 'graduate' the course requires at least some homework.

SnoPro711

08-29-06, 08:07 PM

Have a setup where I have installed 6 50W Pro Shakers in a platform and 1 in each of 2 seats. I have a dedicated amp for this 150W (8 ohm) and have the FMODs to deal with the frequency issue.

Heres the question L and Right Channels(speaker inputs) each to run 4 shakers, how are these wired to accomplish this? I read and read and just when I think I understand it another question arises from other users.

Any help would be appreciated. Snopro

:( :confused: :eek:

petermwilson

08-29-06, 08:25 PM

Hi,

I HAve Aura BassShakers (not instaled yet) but mine are 4ohm.

Dn't know if yours are also 4ohm and if so how your amp would be ffcted.

Peter M.

miltimj

08-30-06, 03:36 AM

If your amp can only handle 8ohm, then you'll need to run each channel all in series, so they're each 16ohms (unless your amp is bridgeable). Otherwise you can run a parallel/series combination to get back to 4ohms if your amp can handle that low of an impedance. It really all depends on the specs/capabilities of your amp, and ensuring that you have an even number of shakers.

SnoPro711

08-30-06, 12:03 PM

Home Theater Platfor Setup

6' X 10' Solid Oak no Carpet on Cement Floor

Separate Amp - Extra Sonamp MKII to drive Shakers (60 watts per channel) 8ohm
- Line In is A L/R setup so a sinlge cable from a Y split from main receiver (Yamaha HTR5990) - How do I wire to amp with L/R inputs?

6 Pro Shakers in Platform - Platform is flat to cement floor no carpeting, but I have mounted it to floor not free standing. Shakers are suspended between joists. Should it not be mounted to floor but rather free standing?

Is 6 shakers enough?

Wiring? 3 to each of L R inputs on amp in parallel or series?

Any input would be appreciated.

Snopro

SnoPro711

08-30-06, 12:04 PM

Additional Amp Info -

Output Power, Stereo Mode, RMS: 60 Watts per channel @ 8 ohms
• 100 Watts per channel @ 4 ohms.
• Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.05% 20Hz-20kHz @8 ohms 0.09% 20Hz-20kHz @ 4ohms
• IM Distortion (SMPTE 4:1) @ 8 ohms: 0.008% @ 1 watt - 0.01% @ 60 watts
• Signal to Noise Ratio: -100dB below rated output (A-weighted)
• Input Sensitivity: 0.625 volts for rated output
• Input Impedence: 47k ohms, Min.

dshmel

09-08-06, 08:42 AM

Hey Guys.... On an impulse buy (as usual) I just ordered 2 Buttkickers lfe, 2 couch kits and an amp. I have a sectional couch which is basically 2 love seats connected by a center piece. Sorry if I missed it but I've read through this thread and couldn't find the answers...

Is 2 Buttkickers enough?

Where is the best place to mount them??? Using couch kit under the leg or installing them under the couch??? (cant use floor joist.... its a basement)

Can these things damage furniture???

Their website says to wire in parallel... Thats when I send out a separate wire to each BK and tie-in at the amp?????

Im really looking forward to these things... They always seemed kind of gimmicky until I started to really look into them.. Although I've never experienced them, they seem like they will add to my HT experience.
Thanks for any info...

I have 3 LFE units installed with 3 Buttkicker amps - one amp per LFE. I have one LFE unit on the outside (reclining) sections of a 3 sectional couch and one LFE on one section of a two section loveseat.

The middle section of the couch gets the shaking from the end sections. Your couch setup sounds like mine. If the sections recline (as mine do) then you will get more shaking effect as the reclining mechanism acts like a suspension system - allowing the sections to move without transferring energy into (or being dampened by) the floor below.

If installed securely, I would not worry about damage to furniture. I would make sure that all nuts and bolts are tightened down if you are installing on furniture that has any moving parts. The shaking may - over time - loosen any hardware.

Don't use the couch kit. Too much kinetic energy will be wasted. Mount directly to the furniture frame. You will be pleased with the effect.

One amp should drive 2 LFE's easily. I bought a total of 4 amps and 5 LFE's because I got them for pennies on the dollar. One amp and 2 LFE's are still boxed up. We are changing furniture so I want to wait.

Follow the wiring instructions from Buttkicker and you will be fine. Use 12 ga. wire MINIMUM - I suggest 10 ga., and keep the runs from the amps to the LFE's as short as possible. The amps take a lot of juice so make sure you have enough amperage in the outlets that you are plugging everything into.

shamus

09-08-06, 12:13 PM

Dshmel, Thanks for the reply. Ive had these things up and running for over a month now and love em. I ended up installing 2... one on each of the couches and the center piece gets the left overs of the vibrations. And I also ended up mounting them to the frame. I too have the recliners on the ends of the couch but installed the LFE on the center section of the three seat couch. Thanks again!!!

SnoPro711

09-12-06, 11:03 AM

Attached is a diagram outlining my current setup. I have 2 Bash 300 amps each running 8 Buttkickers, the amp is 300 watt 4 ohm. 12 of these are in a raised platform and the other 4 are in the front seats.

Questions are:

What ohms are being delivered to amp in this setup? I have read and read and the brain is still confused.

If this is not setup for 4 ohm what would need to be changed?

I am at the final stages and before I screw everything down wanted to make sure I am setup correctly.

Thanks in advance.

Greg

Dean Prestholt

09-12-06, 04:27 PM

J. L.

09-12-06, 04:47 PM

Looking at what you have there and assuming buttkickers are 4 ohms, which I think they are, your amp would be seeing an 8 ohm load. Since your amp is rated at 300 watts into a 4 ohm load what you have now should suffice albeit at a slightly lower power output. I would say leave it like it is if you are happy with how it's working right now.If the amplifier was accurately rated at 300 watts into 4 ohms then it would deliver 150 watts into 8 ohms. (sorry, but it is not slightly less, but half of the power)

This 150 watts is then split equally between the 8 shakers on that amplifier. In other words, each shaker will get 18.75 watts power.

If everything is shaking sufficiently, you are done. If not, you could someday use bigger amplifiers since the shakers can handle more than 18.75 watts.

The only way to get a 4 ohm load would be to parallel wire four sets of four shakers in series. (You currently have paralleled two sets of four shakers in series in your drawing.)

Now, if you did that, and put all 16 shakers on one of the 300 watt amplifiers it would now output 300 watts. However, the 300 watts would be divided equally among the 16 shakers... Each shaker would get.... you guessed it... 18.75 watts.

So, you could get EXACTLY the same shaking if you wired your 16 shakers as a 4 ohm load to one amplifier as you would with 8 shakers on each amplifier. (One difference, you would be stressing the one amp at 300 watts where it is being lightly loaded at 150 watts)

Joe L.

Dean Prestholt

09-12-06, 05:24 PM

Yeah, OK, Half is a bit more than slightly. :p ;)

At any rate I still say if you like how it feels now then leave it. If you want to use all of your amps power I would just take 2 out of each side of your circuit. That would also give you a 4 ohm load. Then you would be using the full 300 watts (That is if you have it cranked). I haven't used buttkickers before and I thought buttkickers hit harder then the Aura Pros, I use Aura Pros, but I would think 6 in your platform and 2 in the front seats would be more than enough. Unless of course it's a pretty big platform I suppose and/or if your front seats are 4 separate seats. If they are separate seats then you might be able to couple 2 of the seats together with something "like" buttkickers couch kit. Maybe some kind of modified version. If that doesn't work then maybe 4 for the front and 4 for the platform would even suffice. You would then have 8 extras for spares!;)

SnoPro711

09-13-06, 11:26 AM

J. L.

09-13-06, 11:59 AM

Dean,

Thanks, I had thought it was 8 ohms. BTW I miss directed everyone on the Buttkickers, they are the Aura Pros rated at 50 watts 4 ohms, I am just use to the phrase is all comes off the tongue easier than bass shakers.

GregAs I said, all you are currently feeding them is 18.75 watts each, and that is with the amplifier going at its max output. They will barely get warm in use and should do fine as they are rated for 50 watts.

SnoPro711

09-13-06, 01:49 PM

petermwilson

09-13-06, 02:29 PM

Hi,

Dean, since your using the Auras would you please comment on what I am trying to achieve.

I purchased a pair off Ebay which came with a pair of small trasformers (I think meant for automobile installation but perhaps not).

I am trying to increase the tactile experience of late-nite viewing by using the headphone out plug of my Denon 5803 (which puts it into Dolby headphone mode).
From there I'm planning a 2way split to a small amp with a line connected to one of the Auras attached to a single Lazyboy recliner and the second line feeding Senn PX250 HPs which reach lower sonically than my Sony DJs or Senn 659s which I find smaller cheaper and more comfortable (heat) for long listening sessions). My regular .1 unit is a DefTech SuperCube II but since Dolby HP doesn't use it I would imagine that it would be dead for my purposes also.

Assuming that you (and others using these products) feel that this concept has merit. Do you thing I should get a dedicated HP amp or can I use an old Onkyo receiver (75wperch) with a couple of blown channels to power 1 of the Auras?

I was also wondering if there are any negative issues when a pair of these types of product are attached to a 3 or 4 seater when only one person is on the couch?

Thanks,
Peter M.

J. L.

09-13-06, 03:19 PM

Joe,

Thanks for the reply, I am going to drop this to 4 ohms so I will have 300 watts to power 8 shakers, then I will have 37.5 watts per shaker which should more than adequately shake the platform and seats.

Spent more time reading this thread than building the platform. I have the frame permanently mounted to the concrete floor, 2 layers of plywood sitting on top of over 100 rubber isolator pads with the shakers mounted directly on the plywood floor. I had already fastened the platform to the ground when I decided to add the shakers so I simply sat the top on the rubber feet/pads so not to lose and of shaker response to something mounted so tight. Even with the 8 ohm wired shakers I was getting good response out of the shakers but found myself cranking the amp well above 1/2 way to get what I needed to transfer into the seats.

Thanks again.

GregGreg,
I know of no way to wire eight shakers (4 ohms each) in any combination that will result in a single 4 ohm load for the amplifier.

Basically... All eight in series = 32 ohms (you don't want this)

A string of four in series = 16 ohms
Two 16 ohm strings-of-four, in parallel (total of 8 shakers) = 8 ohms.

Now, you could add 8 more shakers... then four 16-ohm strings, in parallel woud be 4 ohms, but you would then have 300 watts equally divided by 16 shakers and... drumroll please.... 18.75 watts per shaker.

Joe L.

Crown of Iron

10-01-06, 09:27 AM

Deja-vue

10-01-06, 11:32 AM

This Amp (http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=300-796) will do just fine.
I am using it for my Shakers.
:)

petermwilson

10-01-06, 05:46 PM

Hi,

As I mentioned before in this thread I was looking for options using a combination of 1 Aura BassShaker attached to a Lazyboy recliner with DolbyHeadphone Quazi(basically 5.0)DSP from the headphone jack of my Denon 5803.

My dealer suggested doing a split from the HP jack to (a) an amp similar to above and (b) to my HPs

I decided to give Denon Canada a call to see if this might cause any negative issues.
Paul Belanger (head techie) aked me what DVD player I was using, to which I replied Panny RP82. He then asked if I was also using it's DVD-A capabnilities from the analogs. I replied NO, I have a sparate mlti disc player.

He said Great. Instead of splitting from the HP outlet, use it normally but send the .1 signal to the amp that powers the BassShaker from the analog .1 from the back of the Panny.

Anyway, now I have 2 possible options and will report back once I've picked up the appropriate amp for the Shaker.

Question??, My plan is to install 1 of 2 Shakers to my recliner, but someone mentioned that they should be installed in pairs. Would that be OK for 1 recliner as long as I can adjust the effect? Or would installing just 1 actually be OK?

Peter M.

Crown of Iron

10-01-06, 06:49 PM

J. L.

10-01-06, 09:13 PM

Ok, after a VERY long delay, I am ready to do the deed of pre-wiring my riser for a set of 6 Auro Pros.

I hate to ask up old questions, but I did do some homework for the oocasion :)

Can anyone recommend an amp to power 6? Also, I am still unclear on how to wire for this setup. So, I have done my own little wonderfully crappy artwork!

Here is my design, please, correct me as you see fit!

Thanks for the help!You have all the shakers connected in parallel.

This will result in an impedance load of 4 ohms divided by 6.... for a total load to the amplifier of .666666 ohms.

So, you may use any amplifier that will work with an impedance of .6 ohms. (Now, I don't know of many that will, so you may want to re-think how you wire your shakers.

Instead of two sets of three in parallel connected to the amplifier, consider two sets of three in SERIES. A set of three in series will be 12 ohms. A second set of three will also be 12 ohms. The two sets of three-in-series, in parallel will result in a load of 6 ohms. Most amplifiers will handle a 6 ohms load, almost NONE will handle a .6 ohm load. (or won't without shutting down if protected with a good short-circuit-protection circuit, or self-destructing, if the transistors are not up to the excessive current, or burning up, if the heatsinks are not up to the job of cooling it up under such a low impedance load)

Joe L.

J. L.

10-01-06, 09:21 PM

Anyone care to comment on my design drawing up above? I am scared to death of running these wires for the shakers then sealing up the riser!

Thanks for that info on that amp, that will be the exact one I use! Thanks!If you wire the shakers as you illustrated you will NOT be able to use the amplifier you described without it shutting down, self-destructing, or worse.
Double check your fire-insurance, as the overcurrent could be dramatic when the amplifier fails with a .6666 ohms load.

My advice so you can get construction going. Run a pair of wires from each shaker individually to a point behind/along-side of your riser. Than, at that point you can connect them in series-parallel for a correctly matched load to your amplifier. When you connect your wires, make sure you keep track of polarity, as you will want all your shakers moving in the same direction at the same time and not opposite directions and cancelling each other's movement out.

Joe L.

MississippiMan

10-01-06, 10:42 PM

MississippiMan

10-01-06, 10:51 PM

A Amp to do the job as described via the Series/Parallel circuit described in the last two posts would be a AudioSource Amp 5.3 Monoblock @ 250 Watts into a 4 ohm load About $200.00

I'm currently using 5 so I KNOW the do a fine job for low bucks.

( Hell ! I just saw the referred to Amp. I's got ta git me one of 'dose!) Follow THAT suggestion, not mine.

Wast

10-03-06, 02:18 PM

Can I use a pioneer sx-303 with two aura pro shakers?

Crown of Iron

10-04-06, 09:54 PM

Ok guys, I did another diagram for the wiring of 6 aura shaker pros! Please tell me if I got it right this time! Thanks for your time! :)

J. L.

10-04-06, 10:19 PM

Ok guys, I did another diagram for the wiring of 6 aura shaker pros! Please tell me if I got it right this time! Thanks for your time! :)This time you have it right. :D :D :D

The combined set of 6 shakers will appear as a 6 ohm load to the amplifier when wired as you have illustrated and the power will be evenly divided among them

Joe L.

Crown of Iron

10-06-06, 12:18 AM

Thanks Joe!

I really appreciate your input! I have been trying to wrap my brain around this whole idea for a while with no luck. I very happy to finally have reached my goal, now I can put the wires in my riser, and close the thing up! It's really loud when you walk on it when the plywood isn't screwed down. :p

Thanks again Joe and everyone else! Now to the dirty work! :)

omudrick

10-11-06, 03:37 PM

J. L.

10-11-06, 05:35 PM

Does everybody have EE degrees in this thread, or am i just that stupid?
I am having difficulty grasping all this "ohm" stuff. However, my love for
home theater keeps me wanting to try this.

I got two regular Aura shakers and one Aura Pro.
I also got a 100 watt plate amp from Part Express.
So now what? Do I need an even number, or can I make 3 work?
I have three chairs, and would like to put one under each chair.
Help.I don't have an EE degree, and odds are you are not that stupid, but I did stay at a Comfort-Inn last week :D

You can probably use your collection of pieces and parts. With three shakers and a single channel amplifier there are only two ways to wire your shakers to the amplifier that will result in them all shaking equally.

One of those two methods (all in parallel) will result in a load on the amplifier of 1.333 ohms (4 ohms divided by the number of shakers in parallel) That low an impedance will likely cause your amplifier to either overheat, self-destruct, or if it has really good circuitry, shut itself down with overcurrent/short-circuit protection.
Do NOT wire them all in parallel.

The other method of getting all three shakers to shake equally, and the correct way for your amplifier, is to wire them all in series. This will result in a 12 ohm load for your amplifier. Now, if your amplifier is rated at 100 watts at 4 ohms it will likely deliver about a third of that at 12 ohms... so each shaker will get about 11 watts. Not the max they can handle, but they will shake. If your amplifier is rated at 100 watts at 8 ohms it will likely produce 2/3 of that at 12 ohms and result in about 22 watts per shaker.

If the amplifier is 100 watts at 4 ohms and you can add a fourth shaker to the mix you can parallel two sets of two shakers in series, then you will end up with a 4 ohm load, and each shaker will get a fourth of the 100 watts of your amplifier or 25 watts applied to it.

It has been discussed many times, the pro and non-pro shakers are identical internally but the "pro" models have fins on the outside to better dissipate heat. Therefore, they can be driven harder and when driven harder will shake harder. However, when wired as I have described all shakers are driven equally and will shake equally and the "pro" model will just be a bit cooler than the non-pro models.

Joe L.

omudrick

10-12-06, 02:59 PM

J. L.

10-12-06, 04:59 PM

Joe,

Thanks for putting it all in "English".
The amplifier is rated at 75 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 100 watts RMS @ 4 ohms.
I'll hook them up in a series, and see how much they really shake at 11 watts,
if it's not enough, maybe I'll take one out and go with just two for now.

Thanks again,
OlegOdds are you will be fine, 75 watts into 8 ohms will result in roughly 50 watts into 12 ohms. This will be divided evenly between the three shakers so each will end up with just over 16 watts of power. I'm currently using a similar amplifier to drive 4 shakers, and they each get roughly 18.75 watts and they shake plenty enough for me.

Now, in case you are wondering how I'm calculating the power out for various loads... it is a fairly simple formula.

First, amplifiers do not put out power, they put out voltage. This voltage, when presented across a load will result in the flow of current. The voltage across a load multiplied by the current through the load is how we calculate the power delivered to the load.

A perfect amplifier can supply an infinite amount of current and still supply the same output voltage. In reality, no amplifier can supply an infinite amount of current, and none are perfect. Better amplifiers can supply the SAME (or very nearly the same) voltage to 4 ohm loads as they can to 8 ohm loads. (An 4 ohm load would result in twice the current flow of an 8 ohm load if the voltage at the output of the amplifier was constant) So... the better the power supply in an amplifier is, the more likely it can supply twice the current at 4 ohms as it can at 8 ohms, and therefore, twice the power.

Since your amplifier does not have that 2 to 1 ratio in its specs, it obviously has a smaller, less capable power supply. Don't worry, if you look at most amplifier specs, most will not be able to double the output at 4 ohms than at 8 ohms.

So... to get 75 watts at 8 ohms would require an output voltage from the amplifier of roughly 24.5 volts.

24.5 volts delivered across an 8 ohm load would result in a current of roughly 3 amperes. (24.5/8=3.0625) Now, voltage * current would give you the power (3 * 24.5 = 75 watts)

Now... with the same amplifier and same output voltage across 12 ohms, you would get 24.5 volts / 12 ohms = 2.04 amperes. Lastly, 2.04 amperes current * 24.5 volts would show you the resulting power... 2.04 * 24.5 = 50.02 watts.

That 24.5 volts would be equally split across each of the three shakers in series, so each would get 8.16 volts across it. So... 2.04 amperes * 8.16 volts would give you the power delivered to a single shaker (8.16*2.04=16.66 watts)

Happy shaking... Google "ohms law" and "power calculation formula" for more details.

Joe L.

phisch

10-14-06, 05:09 PM

J. L.

10-14-06, 06:56 PM

I have 2 sets of Aura bass shakers hooked up to my two rows of seats. Each row of shakers is connected in series for a 12 ohm load. I will be powering the shakers with an Audiosource 200 amp which is rated at 80w per channel (8 ohms) in stereo mode, or 200w (8ohms) in mono/brideged mode. My question is, should I hook up each row of shakers to the L/R outputs of the amp in stereo mode, or should I parallel connect the 2 rows of shakers for a 6 ohm load and connect to the amp in bridged mode? Which would be the preferred method?Although the parts-express web-page description of that amplifier lists it as being 2 ohm stable, I see no mention of that in the user-manual.

The user manual for that amplifier found on the Parts-Express web-site says "The minimum impedance for the total load connected to a pair of channels in the bridged mode is 8-ohm." The page for the manual is http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/302-603m.pdf

Now, the odds are that a 6 ohm load would not hurt it in bridged mode, but it is less than the recommended minimum the manufacturer has stated.

If rated at 80 watts into 8 ohms the amplifier will only produce 60 watts into 12 ohms, or roughly 20 watts per shaker. This is actually a pretty decent match, so I would go with it. The amplifier will run cooler, and be well within its ratings.

If bridged, it will produce a bit more than 200 watts into 6 ohms. (how much more depends on how good its power supply is designed) It could be as much as 25% more. If it puts out 240 watts (as an example) it would result in 40 watts per shaker. Depending on the model shaker you have, this might be too much. Also, the amplifier will be operating outside of its recommended limits and may overheat, shut-down in overcurrent protection mode (if it has one), or self destruct (if it does not) This could be dramatic.

I would go with separate left and right channels ,and forget about bridging for now. If things are not shaking enough that way, then you might try bridging and the 6 ohm load if you are willing to risk it. Keep an eye on the amplifier temperature the first few times you run it in this mode... might not want it to get too hot.

Joe L.

phisch

10-14-06, 09:50 PM

The user manual for that amplifier found on the Parts-Express web-site says "The minimum impedance for the total load connected to a pair of channels in the bridged mode is 8-ohm." The page for the manual is http://www.partsexpress.com/pdf/302-603m.pdf

Thanks, I didn't see that in the manual. I better play it safe and connect the shakers in stereo mode. I have the standard Aura shakers that are rated for 25w. In this case the 20w per shaker that the Audioscource amp will provide should be sufficient. Thanks for the help.

ksharp4

10-17-06, 04:53 PM

nvarner

10-17-06, 06:17 PM

Could I use the partsexpress Bash 300w subwoofer plate amp to run my 2 Pro shakers & 4 regular shakers? Additionally, the plateamp has a freq. setting on it ? Is this the crossover? If so, could I set the freq. to 50 on that plate amp. so that I don't get the talking butt?

J. L.

10-17-06, 10:48 PM

I am getting ready to give this a try and wanted to know the best way to wire 5 auras. I was planning to put one in each chair in my theater (couch and love seat). So should I wire them all 5 in series or wire two separate series (series of 2 and series of 3) and wire them in together in parallel. More than likely I will buy a plate sub amp.Unfortunately, both methods have some issues.
If you wire all 5 shakers in series you will end up with an impedance of 20 ohms presented to the amplifier. If it is rated at 150 watts at 8 ohms it will produce 75 watts at 16 ohms and even less at 20 ohms.

As I described a few posts ago in this thread, amplifiers put out a given voltage, that voltage across a given load impedance results in a flow of current. The amount of current that will flow depends on the impedance. Finally, the current multiplied by the voltage represents the "power" supplied to the load, or in this case, the set of shakers.

So... figuring an amplifier that puts out 40 volts into an 8 ohm load. This will result in a current flowing of 40/8 amperes or 5 amperes of current.
5 amps multiplied by 40 volts give the power delivered to the 8 ohm load, in this case 200 watts. (Now... this amplifier will deliver 200 watts into an 8 ohm load)

The same amplifier will have a current flowing of 40/20 when connected to a 20 ohm load ( a series string of 5 shakers) This will equal 2 amperes of current flowing through the load.
2 amps multiplied times 40 volts results in 80 watts of power split evenly between the 5 shakers making up the 20 ohm series string. So, each shaker will get roughly 16 watts.

Now, if 16 watts shakes your chairs enough, this will work, if not, you need a higher power amplifier (one that can supply a higher VOLTAGE) even though it will not be called upon to deliver that higher power since it will be running into a 20 ohm load.

If you purchased an amplifier that output 50 volts into an 8 ohm load it would be delivering 50/8 amperes of current (6.25 amperes)
6.25 amperes times 50 volts would result in the wattage delivered to the 8 ohm load ( 312 watts )

If you purchased an amplifier rated at 312 watts into 8 ohms it would produce
50/20 amperes of current into a 20 ohm load. (2.5 amperes of current)
2.5 amperes of current multiplied by 50 volts would give you the power delivered (roughly 125 watts, or 25 watts per shaker) So... you could use an amplifier rated for 300 watts into 8 ohms and get 25 watts delivered to each of your 5 shakers in series. This could work well too.

Now, the other wiring arrangement you mentioned. a string of 2 in series in parallel with a string of three in series.

The set of three in series will be shaking less than the set of two in series. Lets use that same amplifier that can produce an output of 40 volts.

40 volts across an 8 ohm load (two shakers in series) will result in 5 amperes of current flowing. (40/8) 5 amperes of current times 40 volts will result in a power of 200 watts... or 100 watts per shaker... too much... so we turn the amplifier gain down so we get 30 volts output. now, 30/8 amperes of current will flow (3.75 amperes) Multiply that times 30 volts and we get a total of 112 watts divided equally between the two shakers... still too much... we need a smaller amplifier. Let's try 20 volts output across 8 ohms.

20/8 = 2.5 amperes current. 2.5 amps current multiplied by 20 volts is 50 watts, shared equally by the two shakers, so they each get 25 watts of power. (probably just about perfect for most installations) Now, connect the second set of three shakers in series to the same amplifier.

The amplifier is still outputting 20 volts, but this time across 12 ohms. 20/12 = 1.6666 amperes. 1.6666 amperes multiplied by 20 volts results in a power delivered of 33.33 watts, divided equally by the three shakers, so each gets 11.1 watts power.

So, if you put a string of three in parallel with a string of two shakers, each of the string of two would get 25 watts of power, and each of the string of three would get 11.1 watts of power. Not exactly an even distribution of the power. The string of three would shake much less than the string of two. (If the two strings are in parallel, they will be fed the exact same VOLTAGE, so my example fits, even if your amplifier is higher or lower in its "power" rating. I personally would never parallel strings of shakers with different numbers of shakers in series as you described because they would not all shake evenly)

If you've followed this far, you can decide if it is worth your effort to use 5 shakers, or to add one more shaker for two strings of three in series, a total load impedance of 6 ohms, and a decent load for many plate amplifiers in the 100-200 watt range. The major advantage is that each of the 6 shakers would get the same amount of power, and they would all shake the same aamount.

Remember though, even though amplifiers are rated for power out, they actually output a given VOLTAGE, and depending on the impedance of the load, will deliver the power as advertised. An amplifier rated for 250 watts into 4 ohms will not deliver 250 watts unless connected to a 4 ohm load, in fact, it will deliver about half of that when connected to an 8 ohm load since half of the current will flow due to the higher resistance of the load.

One last thought... If you used a stereo amplifier and put three shakers in series on one channel, and two in series on the other channel, and then adjusted the balance control off-center so the two sets of shakers were shaking equally, you could use 5 shakers. In this case the set of three will be fed a higher voltage than the set of two because the balance control is off center. All will shake evenly, but the amplifier will work harder on one channel vs the other.

Joe L.

ecir38

10-19-06, 12:09 PM

miltimj

10-19-06, 12:53 PM

I wouldn't necessarily wire the way they recommend to wire (only a few of them). Here's what I calculated:

3-shakers: 2.66 ohms
4-shakers: 4 ohms
5-shakers: 2 ohms (avoid, but why not 8?)
6-shakers: 6 ohms
7-shakers: 10 ohms (avoid)
8-shakers: 2 ohms (why not 8?)
10-shakers: 16 ohms (avoid)

I would do whatever it takes to avoid uneven wiring anyway (where it's not symmetrical). In other words, only wire 1,2,3,4,6,8,9,10,12,etc, shakers. That could give you the following loads:

1-shaker: 4 ohms
2-shakers: 2 or 8 ohms
3-shakers: 12 ohms
4-shakers: 4 ohms
6-shakers: 6 ohms
8-shakers: 2 or 8 ohms
9-shakers: 4 ohms
10-shakers: 10 ohms
12-shakers: 3 or 5.33 or 12 ohms

In the above cases, you would get all shakers with equal power to them. Not necessarily the case in the wiring schemes they list in that link. The only ones from that link that I would recommend are the setup for 4, 6, and 8 shakers.

As for the power to them, the safest bet is to add up the power handling for all of them combined, and find an amplifier (e.g. a rack pro amp) that will supply that much power for the given resistance. Though ideally, I'd recommend getting an amplifier that can handle half the resistance that you're giving it to be on the safe side.

J. L.

10-19-06, 01:23 PM

This Site http://4seating.com/audio_buttshaker_info.htm has diagrams for 3,4,5,6,8,10 shakers. It would be interesting to know how many ohm's each diagram equals and what size amp would be needed for each diagram. The answer to this would keep this 41 page thread to a KISS method. ( if only it could be that easy) My cookie isn't sharp enough in this area. I'm sure there are other ways to go than the above diagrams. It sure would be nice to have one sticky with one post with the most common applications. Please accept my apology if this has been brought up already.Although it looks great on the surface, the wiring diagrams on that site are NOT all good for most people.

The 3 shakers diagram has 1/2 of the power delivered to one of the three shakers, and the other half of the power split between the other two shakers. (they each get 1/4 of the power) If you want all your seats to shake equally, that wiring scheme is not for you. Also, wired as illustrated it is a 2.66 ohm load, lower than most amplifiers are rated for.

The 4 shaker diagram is fine, all shakers will shake equally and they will be a 4 ohm load to the amplifier.

The 5 shaker wiring example also has the power unevenly split amount the shakers and the string of three in series will shake much less than the string of two in series. Two posts earlier in this thread I described how unevenly power would be distributed with a set of 5 connected in that way. If you adjusted your amplifier to put out roughly 80 watts of power connected to a string of three in parallel with a string of two shakers, each of the string of two would get 25 watts of power, and each of the string of three would get 11.1 watts of power. Not exactly an even distribution of the power. The string of three would shake much less than the string of two.

the 6 shaker wiring drawing is fine, all shakers will shake the same amount, and the impedance presented to the amplifier will be 6 ohms. (The amplifier will be able to supply power roughly mid-way between its 8 ohm and 4 ohm ratings)

The 7 shaker drawing is really bad.. just under half of the power will be delivered to one of the shakers (4/10ths of the power), the balance (Just over half - 6/10ths of the power) will be evenly split remaining 6 shakers. In other words, they each get one tenth of the power. Nope... that is not likely to get things evenly shaking. Oh, it is a 10 ohm load to the amplifier, but does that matter when the seats are shaking so unevenly.

The 8 shaker drawing is wired as a 2 ohm load to the amplifier. If your amplifier is capable of powering a 2 ohm load, it will work, and all shakers will shake evenly. If your amplifier cannot handle a 2 ohm load it will either shut down (if it has good short-circuit protection or overheat circuitry) or self destruct (if it does not).

The 10 shaker drawing has 1/4 of the power being delivered to each of two of the shakers, and the remaining half of the power split evenly among the other 8 shakers. (Yup, they each get 1/16th of the power) It is also a 16 ohm load to the amplifier, so expect it to produce about half of the power it is rated for at 8 ohms.

Now... with all this in mind, the company is trying to sell chairs. They know very little about shakers other than people want to add them to their theaters. Their idea of presenting sample wiring diagrams is great, but their knowledge of electronics not up to it.

Only the 4 shaker and 6 shaker wiring guides on that site are able to present a proper load to an amplifier AND have all the shakers shake evenly. Only one other, the 8 shaker drawing will evenly shake all the shakers, but it is a 2 ohm load to the amplifier, way too low for most amplifiers.

The other drawings for 3,5,7, and 10 shakers, however nicely they are drawn, are NOT good illustrations of how to wire shakers in a home theater.

Joe L.

J. L.

10-19-06, 04:17 PM

I would do whatever it takes to avoid uneven wiring anyway (where it's not symmetrical). In other words, only wire 1,2,3,4,6,8,9,10,12,etc, shakers. That could give you the following loads:

1-shaker: 4 ohms
2-shakers: 2 or 8 ohms (2 in parallel=2 ohms, 2 in series=8 ohms)
3-shakers: 12 ohms (3 shakers in series = 12 ohms)
4-shakers: 4 ohms (two shakers in series, in parallel with another two shakers in series = 4 ohms)
6-shakers: 6 ohms (three shakers in series, in parallel with another three shakers in series = 6 ohms)
8-shakers: 2 or 8 ohms (four parallel sets of two in series = 2 ohms, two parallel sets of 4 in series = 8 ohms)
9-shakers: 4 ohms (three parallel sets of three in series = 4 ohms)
10-shakers: 10 ohms (two parallel sets of 5 shakers in series = 10 ohms)
12-shakers: 2.25 or 3 or 12 ohms (two parallel sets of 6 in series = 12 ohms,
three parallel sets of 4 in series = 5.33 ohms, four parallel sets of 3 in series = 3 ohms) Don't know how miltimi got 2.25?

In the above cases, you would get all shakers with equal power to them. Not necessarily the case in the wiring schemes they list in that link. The only ones from that link that I would recommend are the setup for 4, 6, and 8 shakers.

It is not enough to combine shakers in a way to make the resulting impedance match the amplifier. You must also wire the shakers so an equal amount of current flows through each shaker and that way they will all shake equally.
Otherwise, you will likely have one or two seats shaking like mad, and the others barely moving.

Joe L.

miltimj

10-19-06, 04:52 PM

Thanks for the correction on the 5.33, Joe. I'll change my post.

Regarding the equal current flow, I said that in my last paragraph (that you quoted):
In the above cases, you would get all shakers with equal power to them

ecir38

10-19-06, 05:03 PM

Thanks Tim and Joe L. for your time on this, both of you guys have been very helpful.

Much appreciated, Brad

robhelmick

11-06-06, 03:23 PM

I have a Yamaha 5890 amp in my theater. I added 4 aura pro shakers but using the sub woofer output into a 1000 watt amp. The amp has 4 outputs. L/R and A and B speaker outs and is rated at 120w at 4 ohms for each side and each sets of A or B out (In other words it is rated to send 120W to L A, 120 to R A, 120 to L B and 120 to R B). I have 2 shakers in series on the L A and 2 shakers in series on the R A. The problem is that the shakers barely move unless I have the Yamaha turned way up and the second amp on full volume. I re-wired using the front L and R pre out on the Yamaha and still very little shaker response. Am I wrong to use the pre out or LFE/subwoofer out on the Yamaha into the Shaker Amp? Others on this thread have suggested using the normal R/L out rather than pre outs to go from 1st Amp (Yamaha) to Shaker Amp, but I am afraid this will send too much power to the Shaker Amp. Any suggestions??? I am thinking of wiring the shakers in parallel, but fear this will lower the ohms too much as my amp says it only works with 4, 8 or 16 ohms. Do you suggest a different wiring plan or using a different out on the Yamaha 1st Amp? I also tried wiring just one shaker to L A and one to R A but again very little response unless Yamaha is very loud and 2nd Amp at full volume. Thanks in advance for any suggestions you might have.

jvgillow

11-06-06, 03:34 PM

It sounds like you need a line level booster between the 5890 and the amplifier. They are common in the car audio world, so it might be cheapest to get one of those and get a 12V converter to plug into the wall. Search for "line driver -golf" on froogle or ebay and that should get you started.

jwylie

11-10-06, 09:34 AM

J. L.

11-10-06, 09:48 AM

I just received 2 Aura Pro's and a Subwoofer plate amp.
Am I correct in assuming that I should wire the 2 shakers in series?

There are alot of posts on the Aura's but I see most people are hooking up more than 2.

The amp is rated at 100watts/8ohms and 150watts/4ohms.

ThanksYou are correct. Wire two of them in series for a resulting 8 ohm load. They will then each get approximately 50 watts of power.

Odds are VERY high you will not need to feed the shakers anywhere near that amount of power, but the shakers and the amplifier will be fine. (in other words, you can crank the gain control down on that amplifier to where the shaking is not excessive)

Joe L.

J. L.

11-10-06, 10:00 AM