Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide [Text View] - Page 7

J. L.

05-01-08, 01:13 PM

I'm not sure what happened to my reply from yesterday? So I guess I'll repeat my answer.

Anyway, I don't understand the specs, either. The model info can be found at
partsexpress dot com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=248-440
(I guess I haven't posted enough here to be able to put a link in messages).
It was cheap, and I knew someone else who was using it to drive bass shakers.

Sorry for a double post, should my original reply somehow magically reappear :confused:
OK... the real specs of that amplifier seem to be, once you get past the marketing doubletalk.

* Output power (stereo mode):
100 watts RMS x 2 (20-20,000 Hz, 8 ohm load)

100 watts per channel into 8 ohms, full range from 20-20000 is good
You will want to use three of your shakers on one channel, all in series, as a 12 ohm load. This should give you somewhere near 75 watts output, divided evenly by the three, and you will have 25 watts per shaker, an almost ideal amount. On the other channel, you can put 4 shakers, in series parallel. (two sets in series, connected in parallel to the amplifier channel) This will be a 4 ohm load, and with some luck get somewhere just above 100 watts. (see below for explanation) Then, feed the two RCA inputs with a "Y" splitter and finnaly, and most importantly, adjust the volume controls on the front of the unit so the three shaker set vibrates as much as the 4 shaker set on the other channel. (I predict you will need to turn down the 4 channel volume control slightly to get everything shaking evenly)

140 watts RMS x 2 (4 ohm load, 1 kHz)
Notice this is not full range, but at 1 kHz, a much easier frequency to produce power for. On a good amplifier the 4 ohm power rating would be close to double the 8 ohm rating, assuming the power supply in the amplifier could supply the required current. Since this is nowhere near double, I suspect a small power supply transformer, one that is not able to supply double the current.

Output power (bridged mode): 250 watts RMS x 1 (20-20,000 Hz, 8 ohm load)
again this confirms my thoughts, in an amplifier with a powerful transformer, this rating should be 4 times the single channel rating, not 2.5 times.

280 watts RMS x 1 (8 ohm load, 1 kHz)
Again, the amplifier can put out a bit more power at 1 kHz than full range, so this is another clue of a smaller power supply.

The other numbers in that ad are pure marketing. There is no way to use the "peak" power numbers they are quoting. Do not believe them. Use only the full frequency range RMS numbers.

Now, the amplifier will probably work well for you, adjusted so one channel has a bit less gain than the other, so all the shakers shake the same amount.

Ther really is no other way, other than to add an 8th shaker, or a 4 ohm resistor to use up the power. Note... if you use a resistor, it must be able to handle 25 watts or more and it will get very hot. (Ever grab hold of the hot end of a 25 watt soldering iron... same amount of heat... 25 watts of heat is 25 watts of heat, regardless of how you create it.)

Joe L.

K_Daniel

05-01-08, 03:52 PM

... once you get past the marketing doubletalk.

Thank you Joe for demystifying that for me!!!

This is the final piece for this project, apart from some tweaking and a bit of painting. I would never have been able to get this far, except for lurking on these forums. Even if I could have afforded to have this done by a pro, I wouldn't have known how to intelligently select from the choices.

My thanks to you and the other knowledgeable people who take the time to share here.

Now, I'll just have to worry about upgrades, and family members who want to do their own ht's :eek:

gobrigavitch

05-07-08, 06:46 PM

J. L.

05-08-08, 07:24 AM

I have 3 chairs I want to install the pro shakers on. I was planning on getting one of the 100w plate amps that parts express sells as well. If I hook them up in series it will be a 12 ohm load and the amp only has 75 watts at 8ohms. Is there another way to hook them up into one channel so that the amp sees a 4 or 6 ohm load? Or will I get enough power with them hooked up in series? Or would I be better off buying a used 5 channel or so reciever from a pawn shop and one of those inline crossovers? Just trying to decide what the best option is.25 watts per shaker is perfectly fine and more than enough power. Odds are you won't even get to use that amount. I'm running 8 shakers in a series-parallel combination on an amplifier that is less than 100 watts output and it is fine with each getting a max of about 12 watts.

FYI, Aura used to make two versions of the aura-shaker. The "Pro" and the "non-Pro." They were identical internally. Same voice-coil assembly, same amount of "mass" shaking, same plastic spider holding the weight, same magnet assembly. The difference was the "Pro" version had molded fins on the outside of its body to help it dissapate heat better, and it had binding posts for the connections while the non-pro had wire leads.

The bottom line, both shake identically at all power levels. It is just the non-pro heats up more when you go above 25 watts or so. Because of that, Aura recommends 25 watts with the non-pro. Even at that lower level, the voice-coil assembly will bottom out at some frequencies near their reasonance (about 40-45 Hz) Because of that, you will end up using less than 25 watts. The "Pro" model can handle higher power only because it can handle the heat better. It still bottoms out at the same lower power level, just heats up less since it has the "fins" on its housing.

For home theater use, either works as well as the other, since in most movies there is very little sustained heavy bass. This is very different than in their original intended use, under car seats in auto sound installations with heavy bass tracks in music.

No, there is no other way to wire three shakers to a single channel plate amplifier to make a 6 or 4 ohm load... sorry.

Start with the 3 series connected 12 ohm load. If at some point you think it is not enough, then you can always upgrade to a different amplifier when you find one on sale.

Joe L.

gobrigavitch

05-08-08, 11:33 AM

Thank you

bhazard

06-01-08, 11:43 AM

I just hooked up 2 bass shakers to an old Sony receiver, and I LOVE the effect! Thanks for all the input in helping me wire it up. I may even add two more.

beartooth

06-02-08, 08:55 AM

Careful, they can be addictive! ;->

I'm planning to build a replica cobra, which is open cockpit, and limited on space in the vehicle. Thanks to the HT experience, it's pretty certain I'll be putting bass shakers in this thing to handle the bass.

born-2b-bad

06-04-08, 03:02 PM

beartooth

06-04-08, 03:07 PM

I have a system were I use wireless surround sound headphones at nighttime (kids, wife). I would like the shakers to be active while in this configuration. Using the line level outs to another amp (what is normally done) won't work because my system is on but the vol on the source amp is muted.

I can send optical out to my shaker amp but then the full freq range is sent to the shakers. Do you know how I might achieve the LFE in this configuration?

Thanks for any help.

Is this a non-htpc configuration? If so, depending on the way the headphones hook in (ie: rca to left/right), you could simply get some sort of A/B switch for that side of the system and split the outputs between speakers and headphones. I have a speaker selector that allows me to turn various speakers on and off (including my gaming chairs, which would effectively be the same and the headphones. Since my sub amp is running off the sub channel only, it still functions (as well as my shakers) no matter what high level speakers are activated.

You can pick up a speaker selector up on ebay pretty cheap, or check mono price. If you have rca males for the headphones, you cna convert to speaker wire from monoprice, or from 1/8" as well.

GTheater

06-04-08, 03:29 PM

Just purchased 4 Aura Pro Bass Shakers for my Sofa and Loveseat from PartsExpress. They suggested the 240w plate amp. I thought it was a bit too much, but I went with their recommendation. They suggested a series/parallel setup.

I will be using an RCA Y-connector off of the Sub PreOut on my Onkyo reciever to connect to my existing sub and the new Dayton amp which will feed the shakers.

Does this sound optimal for my situation? Thanks!

beartooth

06-04-08, 03:34 PM

johnnyq627

06-04-08, 06:46 PM

Triaxtremec

06-05-08, 11:15 AM

You need to split the sound from your 705 subwoofer pre out via a splitter. Send one end to the subwoofer and the other end to the 304 some input, lets say CD. Make sure your speaker cable to plugged into the proper side depending on whether or not you put it in the red or white input. Other than that select the CD input, use the volume control to adjust just how much you want to the shakers to shake.

johnnyq627

06-05-08, 03:14 PM

Thanks for the response... I don't have my subwoofer yet... still waiting on my MFW-15. So I ran the preout to the CD Audio Right channel. I have two other bass shakers sitting in my closet... I'm going to hook those up tonight with a short piece of speaker wire to make sure my setup is ok... if it is, that means my wiring is wrong and I need to jack up my 12'x5' riser to get under it and check out my wiring on the bass shakers (not looking forward to that!).

Nick

johnnyq627

06-05-08, 08:43 PM

Ok, hooked up my other set and placed them on top of the riser and they worked fine. Turned out the ones in the riser were working the entire time, but couldn't be felt. I upped the right channel to +10db and turned the volume up and I could feel them thumping a bit. I'm not sure if my 304 receiver isn't strong enough, or if the two layers of OSB on my riser are taming the beasts.

Any thoughts?

Nick

gogunbaba

06-07-08, 10:04 PM

Hello everyone,

I purchased 2 Aura Pros to try and and see the effects. I direcly connected one of them to the back surround left of my Onkyo 605 receiver(7x90w)and I tried to run the Audyssey set up. When the system sends the signal you can barely here it and of course the set up gives an error messages at the end for the shaker. I checked all the connections and it was the same. I manually set up the equalizer and still can't hear and feel any shake from this. I have an ED LT200 on the way to run these but I was still expecting my receiver to handle these without an external amp. Any ideas what could be the problem.

Thanks,
Burak

beartooth

06-07-08, 10:16 PM

gogunbaba

06-08-08, 01:15 AM

I would guess it's just a matter of the usually low signal power/strength that's being sent to the surround speakers. If they sent a strong signal, they'd over power the mains. My experience with anything sub is you need a separate amp.

Thank you. it makes sense. However, I read tons of posts here people using just their receiver to power these. Therefore, I tried to power them this way. I hope they will work with the subwoofer amp that I purchased (Fedex was supposed to deliver it today but did not happen)

SRR

06-08-08, 02:38 AM

Ok, could use some help, I can't get my shakers to well... shake....

I got a new receiver Onkyo TX-SR304... I hooked it up to two aura pro shakers wired in series, using the Right speaker output. I have the pre-out from my onkyo 705 connected to the CD right audio input on my 304 using an RCA cable. On the 705 I have subwoofer set to YES with crossover of 80hz. On the 304 there's only the option to set the CENTER speaker to large. When I run a test tone on the 304 the bass shakers send out the test tone sound (just like a speaker). If I connect the dvd player's audio out right channel directly to the 304's CD right channel in, the shakers work just like speakers... So they're getting the signal, but when I have them hooked up "correctly", they don't do anything. Anyone have any ideas?

Nick

I have a 304 and the two shakers that I have mounted to a piece of plywood are hooked to my Onkyo 304 as one shaker per left and one per right channel of the Onkyo 304. You should be running the 304 in all channel mono mode. And all speakers large, with subwoofer set to no, again that being on the 304. In fact I have one shaker per left/right channels, two wired in series off the center channel, 2 wired in series off the right surround, and 2 wired in series of the left surround, all off the 304 with no problems, passed plenty of demo movies thru it and it has never complained.

Front row is three Coaster Matinees, second row is four theater seats pulled from a theater, with one shaker per seat, mounted to the carpet directly under the seat in between the seat uprights. Rear row is three seats, with two shakers one mounted under each outside seat, so functionally each seat is getting close to an equal amount of shaking.

Second and third rows are risers built with 2x8's upright sitting on concrete, then two layers of 3/4" plywood, that is then carpeted with a pad. You have to be careful when mounting the auras if you tighten them down to much/not evenly you can bend the frame and stop them from shaking. Mounting them on carpet makes this task even harder, as once you put four screws in, you need to make sure that the aura still moves slightly with slight force of your hand with out rattling against the screws while an amp is making them shake, balancing act there.

SRR

06-08-08, 02:41 AM

Thank you. it makes sense. However, I read tons of posts here people using just their receiver to power these. Therefore, I tried to power them this way. I hope they will work with the subwoofer amp that I purchased (Fedex was supposed to deliver it today but did not happen)

Most people are using a SECOND receiver off the subwoofer out on their main receiver. Surround channels have little bass, so you shouldn't expect much if any shaking.

gogunbaba

06-08-08, 11:30 AM

Most people are using a SECOND receiver off the subwoofer out on their main receiver. Surround channels have little bass, so you shouldn't expect much if any shaking.

Thank you for the response.

GTheater

06-08-08, 09:47 PM

This supposed easy setup is about to drive me to drink!

I installed (4) Aura Pro Bass Shakers in Series/Parallel based on the diagram from PE. I triple and quadruple checked all my wiring as did my buddy.

I have a 65 watt Onkyo reciever. I have split the Subwoofer Pre-out from the Onkyo. One going to the Sub which works great and other going to the Dayton 240w amp Low Level input.

I tried the installed banana plugs from the bass shakers and tried plugging them into From Amplifer and To Speaker posts to no avail. I don't get squat from the shakers.

First, what do I need to plug the shakers into? Second, since I have tried every possible way connecting them, why aren't the shakers shakin'?

I cranked up the new Rambo movie during one of the loudest, most intense scenes with absolutely nothing coming from the shakers. I also turned the gain up all the way on the Dayton 240w amp...NOTHING!! HELP PLEASE!

bhazard

06-08-08, 10:44 PM

GTheater

06-09-08, 12:55 AM

ARHGG!! You were absolutely right... Big Time Newbie Mistake!! They work perfectly now...., but Murphy's Law prevailed when I noticed that I was not getting a picture from my Infocus 4805...WTF??? Bass Shakers working perfectly... Blown bulb on projector.. only 15 months old with infrequent use.... Oh well...$300 later, I will be back in business.

gogunbaba

06-13-08, 08:59 PM

J. L.

06-13-08, 10:28 PM

Hello Everyone,

Would it be correct to wire 5 Bass shakers using a 200w (4 ohm) subwoofer amp like in the below picture? I found this picture here (I know it is for 6 shakers) and thought it may work with 5 shakers as well. Instead using 3 Aura pros in each row I am planning to have 2 in the first row and 3 in the second row. would each shakers get the same amount of power?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=65484&d=1160013280

Thanks,
BurakNo, the row with 2 would get more power than the row with three.

Let's assume the amplifier is a constant voltage source (and most are)
Let's assume it is able to output 30 volts (and it is very likely to be able to).

According to Kirchoff's law,
In the row with 2 shakers, each would have 15 volts dropped across it. (half of the 30 volts)
In the row with 3 shakers, each would have 10 volts dropped across it. (one third of the 30 volts)

Power = voltage squared, divided by resistance, so....
( 10 volts * 10 volts ) / 4 ohms = 25 watts to each of the shakers in the string of three

(15 volts * 15 volts ) / 4 ohms = 56.25 watts to each of the shakers in the string of two.

As you can see, two of your shakers each get 56.25 watts, the other three each get 25 watts... It is NOT going to be even shaking.

To prove my numbers...
The total load to the amplifier is:
1 / (( 1 / ( 4 ohms + 4 ohms + 4 ohms ) ) + ( 1 / ( 4 ohms + 4 ohms) ))
or
1 / (( 1 / 12 ) + ( 1 / 8 ))
or
1 / ( .083333 + .125 )
or
1 / .0208333 = 4.8 ohms total load to the amplifier.

Ohms's law says that "voltage / resistance = current"
When the amplifier is outputting 30 volts into 4.8 ohms the current (in amperes) will be
30 volts / 4.8 ohms = 6.25 amperes

The formula for power (in watts) is:
"voltage * current = wattage"
30 volts * 6.25 amperes = 187.5 watts.

Remember earlier I said two of the shakers were going to each get 56.25 watts and the others each get 25. Watch when I add them up.

25 + 25 + 25 + 56.25 + 56.25 = 187.5 watts ... just like I expected, it all adds up, regardless of how you do the math.

Unfortunately, the shaking is nowhere near even...

Joe L.

J. L.

06-13-08, 10:40 PM

Oh yes, before you even ask, there are only two ways to connect 5 shakers to a single channel amplifier and get them to all shake the same amount.

One way is all in series. The 5 shakers will add up to a 20 ohm load to the amplifier. If you had that same 30 volts output available you would get 6 volts across each shaker.

( 6 * 6 ) / 4 = 9 watts per shaker.... perhaps a tiny bit low, but it might work

The other way to get even shaking is all in parallel... however... it is a near impossible load for most amplifiers at 0.66666 ohms. Odds are the amplifier will overheat and self destruct if it works at all. I do NOT suggest you use this method.

You could add a 6th shaker and get even shaking with your original drawing. Or, you could use a 4 ohm 50 watt resistor in place of the 6th shaker and get even shaking... Be aware, the resistor will get very hot, so do not let it contact flammable materials.

Joe L

gogunbaba

06-14-08, 12:15 AM

Thanks a lot for the quick response Joe. I like the fact that my seat will get 56W. That's all I care :p and 25 w per shaker at the back row should be sufficient . I will be using 1 Aura Pro on each Berkline 13174s. This is the amp I will be using

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_info.php?cPath=2_106&products_id=739

Good deal.

Thanks again.

psuchit

07-03-08, 07:23 AM

Here is my setup. I have onkyo 705 with 7.1 speaker system. The subwoofer is the klipsch RT-10d. I want to use 2 aura pro shakers can I use a Y cable and hook my subwoofer on one end and put another RCA splitter on the other end and then run the aura pro 2 of them in series. since aura are rated 4 ohms I can still drive the channel at 8 ohm same as the woofer ...am I correct. If this does not sound right what settings should I be using.... please advice

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040107&p_id=326&seq=1&format=2

Aaron909

07-05-08, 02:45 PM

I've already asked a couple people on this forum, but I need some second opinions. This is whats messing me up...

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/9569/asdasdjf5.jpg

Where do I connect the other end of the "Y" cable? I was told to connect it to AUX, but looking at the AUX input on the back of my old receiver, it shows a red and white circle...would that shakers still work if I connect the end of the "Y" to just the white circle?? Or am I going to need any other cable to make this work...I'm sorry I'm a noob at this. Here's a pic of my old receiver

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5726/asdnc8.jpg

J. L.

07-05-08, 04:25 PM

You can connect the cable to either the white (left channel) or red (right channel) jack. Then, you would connect eh + and - leads as you have drawn to the same channel speaker output. (If you use the left channel in, connect the shakers to the left channel speaker jacks)

You can, at some time in the future, connect two more shakers to the other channel speaker output. If you do, then the one cable currently plugged into the one jack will connect instead to another "Y" splitter and its two outputs would connect to the "red" and "white" AUX inputs and feed both channels.

Hope this helps. Your drawing was perfectly correct. (and very helpful to see exactly what you were saying)

Joe L.

Aaron909

07-05-08, 11:29 PM

Thank you so much, that's exactly the response I needed...I can't wait to get these things hooked up.

Rakesh.S

07-08-08, 11:04 PM

I need some help with my shakers.

I have two of the 50W Aura shakers wired in series. These are tied back to a speaker wire.

I took an RCA splitter cable, plugged it into my ONKYO 605 subwoofer pre-out, and plugged the other ends into a Panasonic SC-HT05 (http://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-SCHT05-Home-Theater-System/dp/B0002472IM) DVR/VCR input. The subwoofer for the panny does all the amplifying and it has the speaker outs on it. So I have the shakers going into the Front Left channel on the panny sub.

I get nothing at all. The panny receiver has a display on the front panel that tells you if you're receiving an input (you'll see wavy lines when there's a signal coming through) and I'm not even getting anything there.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

SRR

07-08-08, 11:08 PM

Aaron909

07-08-08, 11:12 PM

Not sure, but try plugging the other end of the splitter cable into the white (left channel) PHONO input.

Rakesh.S

07-09-08, 12:34 AM

Your panasonic system is filtering out the bass, and should be sending it to the sub, you won't be able to use it for a shaker amp.

Guess I'll start looking for a cheap stereo receiver then...sucks that this system won't do the job - I even get the test tone out of it.

Rakesh.S

07-10-08, 01:16 AM

I went ahead and picked up an Onkyo TX-8222 for $92 shipped off shoponkyo...it's a refurb, but that's fine. I'm hoping this will do the trick.

I was going to wait for an off brand to show up for under $100, but the onkyo has an adequate power rating and you get onkyo quality.

beatboy77

07-12-08, 03:12 PM

J. L.

07-12-08, 06:16 PM

I recently purchased 4 Aura Pro Bass Shakers for a riser I built. I am wondering which of these two Amps is best for me to power these:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-804

or

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&Partnumber=300-810

Opinions Please :)

~Josh
Aura shakers are identical internally to Aura Pro shakers. The difference between then are the external fins on the Pro models, and the binding posts on the Pro models.

At some frequencies,near their natural reasonance, it will be possible to bottom out the shakers with as little as 20-30 watts, regardless of what they say they can handle physically before they overheat. In other words, the most power you will really be able to apply is closer to 20-30 watts than 75 watts. With that in mind, the 250 watt amplifier is a better match for your power needs.

On the other hand, the odds are very high that 4 shakers on a riser will barely be detectable unless it is mounted on rubber isolators and the riser is fairly small at that. That might make you turn the gain up on the shaker amplifier until they are physically beating themselves to death, especially if you choose the 1000 watt amplifier.

So if you choose the larger amplifier, but the shakers really need about 20 watts each, or so, you feed then 250 watts each (1/4 of the power from a 1000 watt amplifier each), they'll work till the first time you play a bass intensive scene. then, they because they are too little for a riser of any size, and you have the gain turned up, they'll become expensive fuses and stop working...

My recommendation, the 250 watt amplifier, and mount the shakers directly to the seats. Keep the gain turned down until you can get a feeling of how much shaking is needed.

Joe L.

Rakesh.S

07-16-08, 02:31 AM

Got the onkyo stereo amp today and hooked it up..i love these shakers. I'm getting rid of the sub and using the fronts for additional bass (infinity p362's).

Our couch is a reclining type and with the way the shakers are mounted, the effect doesn't really transfer to the area that my back rests against....it's mostly just on the seat. That's fine though.

mpatton

07-21-08, 03:46 AM

Quick question, sorry if this has already been covered.

I'm planning on picking up two of the Aura Pro Bass Shakers to mount on a couch. I'm trying to keep this relatively cheap so I was looking at the Dayton 70W plate amp from PartsExpress.

I'm assuming that running two of the shakers in series will give me 8 ohms at the amp, however at 8 ohms the amp is rated only rated at 45W rms. I take it that this means that the shakers would only be receiving around 23W each. From what I've read, it seems that these don't need a ton of power to perform well, but I'm wondering if this will be enough? Has anyone used this amp, or could anyone offer some insight on how well this setup would work (if at all?)

Thanks

J. L.

07-21-08, 07:35 AM

Quick question, sorry if this has already been covered.

I'm planning on picking up two of the Aura Pro Bass Shakers to mount on a couch. I'm trying to keep this relatively cheap so I was looking at the Dayton 70W plate amp from PartsExpress.

I'm assuming that running two of the shakers in series will give me 8 ohms at the amp, however at 8 ohms the amp is rated only rated at 45W rms. I take it that this means that the shakers would only be receiving around 27W each. From what I've read, it seems that these don't need a ton of power to perform well, but I'm wondering if this will be enough? Has anyone used this amp, or could anyone offer some insight on how well this setup would work (if at all?)

Thanks

It will be an almost perfect match of power.

HammerJoe

07-23-08, 10:36 PM

I posted thos one another thread, but this one looks more active so I will repost it here as well.

I have a three seat couch.
How many aura bass should I get for it?
Three aura bass or two aura bass pro (three maybe)??

Also how tall are they?
I dont really want to gut the couch so I am thinking of just screwing some mdf with the aura(s) attached to it underneath the couch, I am just wondering if there is enough clearance?
My couch is above 3" from the floor.

I am also curious about vibration transfer to the floor?
One of the reasons I am intersted in these shakers is that I live in an apartment and want to minimize noise/vibration to not annoy the neighbours and still have bass shakeup.

Will the couch start vibrating like crazy and some dampers will be required to prevent the vibration to the floor?
If yes, so what is recomended to do in this case?

Or it will not be an issue?

To add a couple more questions for the amp, for twenty bucks less there is the Dayton SA100 100W Subwoofer Amplifier at parts express but it doesnt have remote.

Is the remote really a necessity?
I've reading alot of posts of people that need to change the volume for the shakers all the time because it is not consistent.
Whats the opinion on this?
If the remote is a must what kind of Amp would be recomended in at this price range?

Cheers.

HammerJoe

07-25-08, 11:14 AM

Any help please?
I would like to get this project underway but I need to know those details first.

Cheers.

J. L.

07-25-08, 11:49 AM

I posted thos one another thread, but this one looks more active so I will repost it here as well.

I have a three seat couch.
How many aura bass should I get for it?
Three aura bass or two aura bass pro (three maybe)??

It is your choice. If the cushions are thick, they will by their nature absorb some of the vibration. Two shakers would probably work if the couch is decoupled from the floor. They would wired be in series to be an 8 ohm load for an amplifier. Three shakers would also have to be wired in series (for them to all shake the same amount) they would be a 12 ohm load, so an amplifier rated at 100 watts into 8 ohms would likely produce only 75 or so into 12 ohms, or 25 watts possible per shaker. this actually would be a perfect match in my opinion, as much more power any will reach the physical excursion limits of the shakers at some frequencies.

Also how tall are they?
I dont really want to gut the couch so I am thinking of just screwing some mdf with the aura(s) attached to it underneath the couch, I am just wondering if there is enough clearance?
My couch is above 3" from the floor.
I just measured my Aura Pro shakers. They are roughly 2 1/2 inches high. They would need 2 3/4 inches to clear the floor. At 3 inches you will be fine.

I am also curious about vibration transfer to the floor?
One of the reasons I am intersted in these shakers is that I live in an apartment and want to minimize noise/vibration to not annoy the neighbours and still have bass shakeup.

Will the couch start vibrating like crazy and some dampers will be required to prevent the vibration to the floor?
If yes, so what is recomended to do in this case?

You will want to put rubber isolators under the feet of the couch. This will help in two ways. 1. to reduce the transmission of bass to the floor (and the neighbors below) and 2. to increase the vibration of the couch (and the people sitting on it) Something like the ones pictured here: http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_232.html

Or it will not be an issue?

I think the rubber isolators are an inexpensive and worthwhile addition.

To add a couple more questions for the amp, for twenty bucks less there is the Dayton SA100 100W Subwoofer Amplifier at parts express but it doesnt have remote.

Is the remote really a necessity?
I've reading alot of posts of people that need to change the volume for the shakers all the time because it is not consistent.
Whats the opinion on this?

I don't change the setting, but I play most movies at a consistent volume.
If you play some a lower volumes, but want to use the shakers to substitute for your subwoofer (or lack of one) then it might not be a bad idea. It really depends on how hard it is to get to the volume control of the shaker amplifier.

If the remote is a must what kind of Amp would be recomended in at this price range?
Most second hand older receivers can be used as the shaker amplifier, have a remote control, and are inexpensive.

Have fun... I have 8 shakers, one per seat, on an old subwoofer plate amplifier that probably does not put out more than 100 watts or so. On the other hand, I also have a pair of Ascendent Audio 18" subwoofer drivers, each in a 12.5 cubic foot enclosure, each displacing 6.5 cubic feet of air, each powered by roughly 700 watts of power. Their frequency response easily is flat down into the low teens. Watching movies in my theater is completely different experience than watching one in a commercial theater. They cut off the bass near 30 Hz, to keep from disturbing the theater next door.

I do not have a neighbor below. and the whole room vibrates, even without the "shakers"

Joe L.

HammerJoe

07-27-08, 04:36 PM

It is your choice. If the cushions are thick, they will by their nature absorb some of the vibration. Two shakers would probably work if the couch is decoupled from the floor.
The couch is seven feet long.
I think I will play safe and get three Auras. :)

They would wired be in series to be an 8 ohm load for an amplifier. Three shakers would also have to be wired in series (for them to all shake the same amount) they would be a 12 ohm load, so an amplifier rated at 100 watts into 8 ohms would likely produce only 75 or so into 12 ohms, or 25 watts possible per shaker. this actually would be a perfect match in my opinion, as much more power any will reach the physical excursion limits of the shakers at some frequencies.
Good that the 100W amp is good enough for three shakers.
I guess I will just buy it then.
I just measured my Aura Pro shakers. They are roughly 2 1/2 inches high. They would need 2 3/4 inches to clear the floor. At 3 inches you will be fine.
Even with a mdf sheet? How thick is the MDF usually? I am thinking at least half inch??
You will want to put rubber isolators under the feet of the couch. This will help in two ways. 1. to reduce the transmission of bass to the floor (and the neighbors below) and 2. to increase the vibration of the couch (and the people sitting on it) Something like the ones pictured here: http://www.av-outlet.com/en-us/dept_232.html

Thanks for the sugestion, I will get something.

mjg100

07-29-08, 09:22 PM

I have an old Kenwood AVR (KR-V7050) 100 watts per channel for two channels. I bought two Aura Pro bass shakers for my couch. The AVR has a useable speaker impedance of 4 ohms. Here is my question, Should I wire one shaker per channel for a balanced load of 4 ohms per channel or should wire in series for 8 ohms, but it would all be on one channel. The load would not be balanced on the AVR. I purchased two 50 hz low pass FMOD's so I can wire them either way.

beartooth

07-29-08, 09:26 PM

mjg100

07-29-08, 09:57 PM

I would personally match the impedence of the amp, at 4ohms, but that's just me.

That is how I was leaning. I did not want to bias the result, but later I will add two more shakers to a second coach and the balanced set up will have two speaker wires already in place so that I can split them, one for each couch running two shakers each in series. I am just not real confident that the AVR will actually handle 4 ohm loads even though the manual says it will. I will have to make sure that my wife and kids do not turn the volume up and burn these up.

bmackrell

07-30-08, 05:36 PM

Guys,

I'm looking for some advice on connecting up my new Aura shakers.

I picked up 6 Aura Pro shakers recently from Parts Express and was planning to attach one each to my 6 Berkline seats in my HT (2 rows of 3). I'm currently working on building an adapter plate for each one of the frames made out 3/4" MDF bolted to the steel frame of each Berkline. The shaker will be attached to each one of the plates I am making. Should be a very solid connection.

I have two nice NAD amplifiers that I was planning on using to drive the shakers that have been sitting in storage from an old 5.1 channel system I was using before I built my theater and bought new equipment.

I'm looking for a few recommendations on ways to set up an adequate system.

Here are the specs for the two amps I have: POWER AMP SPECIFICATIONS (NAD 2100 PE)

Stereo Mode

Continuous output power into 8 ohms 60W (17dBW) Rated distortion (THD 20Hz - 20kHz) 0.03%
Clipping power (maximum continuous power per channel) 70W
IHF Dynamic headroom at 8ohms +7dB IHF dynamic power (maximum short term power per channel)
8 ohms 200W (26dBW), 4 ohms 250W (28dBW), 2 ohms 330W (29dBW)

Bridged Mode

Continuous output power into 8 ohms 100W (26dBW)
IHF Dynamic headroom at 8 ohms +7dB
IHF dynamic power (maximum short term power per channel) 8 ohms 500W (27dBW) 4 ohms 660W (28dBW)

http://images40.fotki.com/v1240/photos/1/1068290/5039830/NAD_2100-vi.jpg

These amps also can drive a 4 ohm load via switch selection on the back of the amp. I’m not sure what the exact power ratings are at 4 ohms but it’s probably much more. I'm digging through my records for the manuals.

These amps also have power level adjustments for each channel on the front panels which I believe will help in dialing in the correct feel for the shakers.

Here's my dilemma, I could use both amps in a bridged mode with each amp driving one row of seats (3 shakers) or one amp in stereo mode driving both rows (all 6 shakers), three on each channel. Any recommendations on the best solution. I don't want to overdrive them from a single bridged amp if one of these NAD amps is adequate for all 6 shakers. I know the Aura's aren't rated for that much power. Any thoughts?

Also can anyone suggest a wiring configuration for either of these two options based on the published specs?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,

BillMac

J. L.

07-30-08, 06:08 PM

I would wire two sets of three shakers in series.

A set of three in series would be 12 ohms

A second set of three, in parallel with the first set of three would give you a load of 6 ohms.

I would put the amplifier in bridged mode and use it that way with the 6 ohm load. Odds are it will produce a bit over 100 watts into 6 ohms. The 100 watts would be split evenly across the six shakers and be about right. This is least complicated.

Another way, use three channels of the 4 available (using both amplifiers) and put a pair of series connected shakers (8 ohms total) on each channel. This would result in roughly 30 watts per shaker and all shaking evenly. You would need a pair of "Y" splitters to feed the amps, but it would work.

Another possible wiring setup would be three sets of two in series, all wired in parallel. Two in series would be 8 ohms. Three 8 ohm sets in parallel would be 2.6 ohms. That would probably be too low a load for a single one of your amplifiers, but who knows. Depends on how well the overcurrent protection works on the amplifiers. If it works, great, if not, keep a fire extinguisher nearby, in case the failure is dramatic. I really don't suggest this solution.

No other wiring will let 6 shake evenly... (or rather nothing practical, 6 in series = 24 ohm load, way too high for your amplifiers..., 6 all in parallel = .66666 ohms... far too low for your amplifiers)

Joe L.

bmackrell

07-31-08, 08:04 AM

Joe,

Thanks for the input. I'll try that setup and see how it works. I'm planning on running all the cables from the shakers back into my network closet and building some sort of termination faceplate on my rack. that way I can try different configurations.

I'll post some pictures once I get farther along.

BillMac

bmackrell

07-31-08, 09:51 AM

I forgot to mention I also picked up a couple of 50 Hz FMOD low pass filters that I'll use on the inputs to the amp(s). That should help keep out unwanted vibration. My main interest is augmenting the experience (special effects) I have during movies. Not real interested in "feeling" my music. I might even have to rig up a remote on/off switch.

I'm currently running two Triad silver in room subs so there's plenty of bass.

BillMac

HammerJoe

08-17-08, 05:13 PM

I got two shakers and installed on my couch (I wasnt sure that I needed three).

Here is a picture of one of the shakers installed:
(Note: the couch in the picture is upside down and the shaker is installed towards the rear, in the picture you see the front of the couch)

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/HammerJoe/Others/081720081700.jpg

There isnt an area big enough to screw the shaker on all four screws.
In the backgroud the darker area is cardboard. :(

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/HammerJoe/Others/081720081657.jpg

As you can see the shaker sits on a 2X2 piece of wood that is part of the frame (solid).

My concern is that this is not good enough.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e56/HammerJoe/Others/081720081701.jpg

Would a piece of wood screwed from on the 2X2 where the shaker is to all the way to the front and the shaker sitting on that board make a huge difference?
What would you do?

Thanks.

miltimj

08-17-08, 07:03 PM

HammerJoe

08-18-08, 03:25 PM

I would seriously reinforce it with a solid piece that spans whatever open section you have. Considering the whole purpose of it is to shake the furniture, it must be completely solid. Even go overboard if it's easy enough to do.

I thought so.
I am going to install a piece of wood that will cover that area, but I have a question, where should the shaker be put?

Rght in the middle, or as I am thinking to more or less where it is right now, towards the end of the couch and near that beam that crosses the whole couch?

Where would it be more effective?

blued888

08-19-08, 10:16 AM

The sub-out from the main receiver goes to the line in of the older receiver, right? I know this might be tackled somewhere in the thread but there's 53 pages to sift through so I thought I'd just ask. Thanks!

Axel

08-19-08, 11:51 AM

blued888

08-20-08, 11:13 AM

What happens to the vibration output when two are put in series (making it an 8 ohm load instead of 4 ohm)?

Is output reduced or just the same?

miltimj

08-20-08, 12:20 PM

I thought so.
I am going to install a piece of wood that will cover that area, but I have a question, where should the shaker be put?

Rght in the middle, or as I am thinking to more or less where it is right now, towards the end of the couch and near that beam that crosses the whole couch?

Where would it be more effective?

The ideal placement, IMO, is three-fold:
- Put it as centrally located (or on a grid, if multiple) as possible, to evenly disperse the shaking
- Attach it as near to the strongest location (support members, etc) as possible
- Under the seat (or more ideal, a riser, but it's a couch in this case), as opposed to the back of the couch, and horizontally positioned

You'll probably have to make some trade-offs with the above, but combine them as best you can.

miltimj

08-20-08, 12:22 PM

What happens to the vibration output when two are put in series (making it an 8 ohm load instead of 4 ohm)?

Is output reduced or just the same?
You will typically need to turn the amplifier gain up twice as much to get the same wattage, which would result in the same vibration output. Ensure your amp works with the load (more of a concern if going in parallel, though it should be powerful enough).

blued888

08-20-08, 01:12 PM

You will typically need to turn the amplifier gain up twice as much to get the same wattage, which would result in the same vibration output. Ensure your amp works with the load (more of a concern if going in parallel, though it should be powerful enough).

Thanks!

As for using the FMOD 50Hz LPF, is there a huge percentage of people here using that setup? (This is for cutting off/attenuating deep male voices and small drum beats, etc., right?)

miltimj

08-20-08, 01:40 PM

Thanks!

As for using the FMOD 50Hz LPF, is there a huge percentage of people here using that setup? (This is for cutting off/attenuating deep male voices and small drum beats, etc., right?)

I use that setup, and would highly recommend it. You are correct as to its purpose - nobody I've met thus far can rumble the ground by speaking in a deep voice.

blued888

08-20-08, 01:58 PM

I use that setup, and would highly recommend it. You are correct as to its purpose - nobody I've met thus far can rumble the ground by speaking in a deep voice.

Is there anywhere else I can get the FMOD 50Hz LPF (And maybe just a single piece of it)? Are they exclusively distributed by PartsExpress?

J. L.

08-20-08, 03:02 PM

Is there anywhere else I can get the FMOD 50Hz LPF (And maybe just a single piece of it)? Are they exclusively distributed by PartsExpress?Try the manufacturer perhaps? Looks like they sell them direct.

http://www.hlabs.com/products/crossover/

Joe L.

HammerJoe

08-22-08, 02:35 PM

You will typically need to turn the amplifier gain up twice as much to get the same wattage, which would result in the same vibration output. Ensure your amp works with the load (more of a concern if going in parallel, though it should be powerful enough).

I have two aura pro set up in series.
Would paralel work better with the Dayton SA100 100W amplifier?

J. L.

08-22-08, 03:58 PM

I have two aura pro set up in series.
Would paralel work better with the Dayton SA100 100W amplifier?

No, two 4 ohm shakers in parallel would be a 2 ohm load. The amplifier is not rated for 2 ohm loads.

It will either:

Work really well (if the engineers and marketing folks are all wrong and it can handle 2 ohm loads. Yeah, right... they would hide the fact their amplifier is better than all their competitors.... yeah.... maybe...)
or
Overheat and shut down... (If it has thermal protection)
or
Shut down as the 2 ohm load draws too much current (If it has short-circuit protection)
or
Blow a fuse (if the fuse cannot handle the overcurrent from the 2 ohm load)
or
Self destruct in a non-dramatic way (transistors and/or diodes open up)
or
Self destruct in a dramatic way if the transistors and/or diodes and/or power transformer heat up to where smoke and/or flames are visible (keep your fire insurance up to date)

Joe L.

blued888

08-24-08, 08:31 AM

What setting do you guys use for "bass" in the receiver for your Aura Pro shakers? Subwoofer only or both?

natemu06

08-24-08, 09:30 AM

what should I look for in an amp? I see you can use an old receiver. Is there better options or people just use that b/c its convenient? Also how many watts should an old receiver have?

guamguam

08-25-08, 09:59 AM

I'm running out of time before the drywallers come and I'm trying to make sure I've got my prewiring for my room correct. The one area I'm not sure if I understand is for the base shakers in the seats. I plan on having up to 8 theater seats. Right now I ran just one speaker cable from the equipment closet into my riser area. Is that enough for 8 shakers, or will I need to run additional lines?

bmackrell

08-25-08, 10:07 AM

guamguam,

That will work but you will now have to connect each chair in series and/or parallel in the room depending on your amp which can get messy (individual wires between chairs). What I opted to do is run a wire from each chair location back into the network closet where they can be terminated appropriately. I built a termination panel from a keystone patch panel that attaches to the back of the rack that holds my equipment. I believe this is a more flexible way to deal with the shakers since you may want a different wiring scheme in the future if you change amps, etc.

Regards,

BillMac

guamguam

08-25-08, 10:37 AM

Thanks, is 16 gauge wire sufficient for about a 25' run? The wire that I ran was 10 gauge (leftovers from my 7 speakers). I do have enough wire leftover from my whole home audio system that I could run 8 sets of that to my riser area I think. Maybe I should swap that out. It would give me more flexibility for the future.

bmackrell

08-25-08, 10:44 AM

Although I used 12 Gauge for all my speakers, I used 16 gauge wire for all the shakers, that should be fine. here's few pics of the panel I mentioned above.

http://images38.fotki.com/v1271/photos/1/1068290/5039830/backofrack1-vi.jpg

http://images39.fotki.com/v1283/photos/1/1068290/5039830/backofrack2-vi.jpg

guamguam

08-25-08, 11:07 AM

Thanks. I think my best bet would be to swap out the 10 gauge I put in there and run my leftover 16 in its place. I guess I have to go back and drill a couple more holes :(

bmackrell

08-25-08, 06:52 PM

I guess I have to go back and drill a couple more holes :(

Better now than later......

blued888

08-26-08, 06:09 AM

What typical sound effects were omitted/attenuated with the use of the 50Hz FMOD?

J. L.

08-26-08, 07:31 AM

What typical sound effects were omitted/attenuated with the use of the 50Hz FMOD?The sounds with frequencies above 50Hz. :rolleyes:

natemu06

08-26-08, 10:45 AM

If I am looking to buy a used receiver what specs should I look for?

blued888

08-27-08, 05:56 AM

The sounds with frequencies above 50Hz. :rolleyes:

I meant... Hmmm... What are some examples of sounds that fall in the 50Hz to 80Hz region? Like small drum beats, deep voices?

Did you choose to use a 50Hz FMOD? Thanks!

J. L.

08-27-08, 08:59 AM

I meant... Hmmm... What are some examples of sounds that fall in the 50Hz to 80Hz region? Like small drum beats, deep voices?
I did put a ;)

Did you choose to use a 50Hz FMOD? Thanks!
No, I did not. (My RX crossover is set to 80Hz) Those same deep voices and sounds between 50 and 80Hz are being sent to my subwoofers and the shakers.

My subwoofers have a bit more effect on my theater experience than those in some home theaters. In fact, they vibrate and rumble the room even without the bass-shakers. I have two large-excursion Ascendent Audio 18" drivers, each displacing 6.5 Liters of air, each in a 12.5 cubic foot enclosure, each fed with about 700 watts of power. The frequency response is pretty decent even down to the low teens and below. (I use a BFD as a parametric equalizer for just the subwoofer amplifier channel)

With 13 Liters of displacement, and roughly 1400 watts powering the subwoofers, the aura shakers only fill in the total experience.

With the same 50 to 80Hz sounds coming from the front of the room, I cannot really detect them as a distraction from the shakers.

Joe L.

nikmlfan

09-08-08, 05:25 AM

Hello all-
I was planning on using four pro shakers on my couch in my living room with my Emotiva BPA-1 (75w x2 at 4ohm / 150x x1 at 8ohm). I am sending the signal split from my Pioneer Elite receiver sub out to two Jamo 650subs (one front and one rear) and then pass through the sub to the BPA-1 then mono out to the shakers wired in ?. What is the best way to wire these up- parallel vs series parallel? Does anyone see a problem with my plan plan?

Pioneer Elite - splitter - Jamo Subs (pass through in stereo) - Emo BPA-1 - 4 Aura Pro Shakers

Thank you for the help!
Nik

spectrumbx

09-25-08, 04:46 PM

J. L.

09-25-08, 10:24 PM

Okay, I'm in. :)

I ordered:
- 1x Sony STR-DG500 ($75 shipped off eBay)
- 4x 50watts shakers ($160 shipped off Part Express)

I am planning to mount all 4 on my theater sofa.

The Sony is rated at 660 watts but is really a 220 watts amp with 100 watts/ch in stereo mode (8 ohms @ 20hz - 20000hz).
Do you guys think the Sony will run the 4 shakers at full load without overloading?Since the shakers will probably take about 10 to 15 watts each before bottoming out at certain frequencies, I'd say you will never use that amplifier at anywhere near its normal output... therefore I don't think it will ever overheat with two 8 ohm loads. (two shakers in series on each channel)

If you did run the amp at full output, the shakers will probably be near or at their thermal limits. Be careful with the volume control... it will be easy to overpower your set of shakers if you turn it up too much.

Joe L.

spectrumbx

09-26-08, 10:16 AM

Since the shakers will probably take about 10 to 15 watts each before bottoming out at certain frequencies, I'd say you will never use that amplifier at anywhere near its normal output... therefore I don't think it will ever overheat with two 8 ohm loads. (two shakers in series on each channel)

If you did run the amp at full output, the shakers will probably be near or at their thermal limits. Be careful with the volume control... it will be easy to overpower your set of shakers if you turn it up too much.

Joe L.

Ah cool... thanks.
I have not checked yet, but I guess I should set a volume cap on the Sony.

Now, this brings up another issue.
How do I synch the volume level from the main receiver to the Sony to keep things at the same level?

Also, I will be doing coaxial SPDIF out from my HTPC to the Sony, which means that the full sound range will be sent to the shakers.
I also understand that the shakers have their own crossover hard set to 40-80hz.
The Sony will be set to stereo and no subwoofer (full range output to the stereo).
Is my setup optimal or should I output only the sub out from the main receiver to the Sony? Why?

Thanks.

asalerno

09-26-08, 02:21 PM

spectrumbx

09-26-08, 03:01 PM

hello everyone

This is a great thread btw, but there is SO much information! I'm sure this has been asked before, but I havn't been able to find an answer on my own:

I have a three person couch, and was thinking 2 or 3 of the aura bass shakers.

What is the cheapest route to go for powering them? If a stereo receiver will work, I'm sure i can find a used one for a good price, but my question is, what specific specs should I look for to make sure the receiver will do a good job -(and are there any recommended old school receivers that would work?

Also, with two i see that you can go out from left and right chan, what do you do with 3? Or would it make more sense to just get 4?

Thanks in advance!

Buying a cheap used receiver or boombox (those that use speaker wires) will get you the most value versus buying a subwoofer amp.
Note that a lot of receivers over-rate their wattage.

My Sony STR-DG500, for instance, is rated at 660 watts but is really a 200 watts amp.
The true amp wattage is what really matters here.

As J. L. posted, the 50 watts shakers would need 10-15 watts.
This means that any 100 watts amp should be able to power 4 shakers with ease.

You should get 4 shakers and drive them in pair @ 8 ohms off each of the right and left channels.

asalerno

09-26-08, 03:06 PM

Buying a cheap used receiver or boombox (those that use speaker wires) will get you the most value versus buying a subwoofer amp.
Note that a lot of receivers over-rate their wattage.

My Sony STR-DG500, for instance, is rated at 660 watts but is really a 200 watts amp.
The true amp wattage is what really matters here.

As J. L. posted, the 50 watts shakers would need 10-15 watts.
This means that any 100 watts amp should be able to power 4 shakers with ease.

You should get 4 shakers and drive them in pair @ 8 ohms off each of the right and left channels.

thanks for the quick reply! so ill just look for a stereo amp that has a true 100 watts and ill be good? is there a way to check a receiver's true wattage?

Also - if i went with an AV receiver, could i get three and use the center chan?

J. L.

09-26-08, 03:10 PM

hello everyone

This is a great thread btw, but there is SO much information! I'm sure this has been asked before, but I havn't been able to find an answer on my own:

I have a three person couch, and was thinking 2 or 3 of the aura bass shakers.

What is the cheapest route to go for powering them? If a stereo receiver will work, I'm sure i can find a used one for a good price, but my question is, what specific specs should I look for to make sure the receiver will do a good job -(and are there any recommended old school receivers that would work?

Also, with two i see that you can go out from left and right chan, what do you do with 3? Or would it make more sense to just get 4?

Thanks in advance!
You can put three in series for a 12 ohm load and power them from a single channel amplifier... if the amplifier is rated at 100 watts into 8 ohms, it will provide about 75 watts into 12. Divided between three shakers, an almost perfect match...

or

you can put two shakers in series on one channel of a stereo amp, and one on the other channel, and then adjust the left/right balance control to make the single shaker shake the same amount as the other two. (you will need to turn the channel with one down, and the channel with the two up)

No other wiring will make them all shake evenly except all in parallel, but that would end up as a 1.3 ohm load, way too low for most amplifiers, and certainly way too low for the average budget/used stereo amp.

J. L.

09-26-08, 03:48 PM

thanks for the quick reply! so ill just look for a stereo amp that has a true 100 watts and ill be good? is there a way to check a receiver's true wattage?

Also - if i went with an AV receiver, could i get three and use the center chan?Can't use center channel unless the internal bass management of the receiver can be disabled so it feeds the full frequency range to all the channels. Actually, that goes for left and right channel too. Almost anything old and made for multi-channel home theater use will be limited in allowing you to disable the bass management.

There are four easy ways to check "true wattage"

1. Measure it. (measure the RMS voltage with a steady tone, multiply by itself, divide by the load resistance.)
2. Read reviews where it is been measured by someone other than the manufacturer. (They are more likely to give a true value)
3. Read the back of the receiver... Most will be between 70 and 85% efficient. If it says it draws 100 watts from the AC wall outlet, the most it can output to the speakers (shakers) is 70 to 85 watts. A 200 watt output receiver should say it draws 250 watts or more from the AC wall outlet.
If the receiver has an amperage listed instead of watts, just multiply by 120 (volts) to get the equivalent wattage.

Here is an example... My personal receiver says it draws 6.6 Amps input from the AC line at 120 volts. It therefore draws 792 watts from the wall outlet. Assuming 80% efficiency, I can get, at most, 633 watts output. (regardless of the number of channels, can't get more power out than you put in, the difference being wasted as heat.)

Now, my receiver manufacturer rates my unit for two channels driven at once, not all seven, so they have it conservatively rated at 110 watts per channel, with two channels driven, into 8 ohms. Obviously, with all 7 channels driven, I can get only 90 watts per channel if they keep to the 6.6 amp listing on the rear panel, so odds are it draws a bit more than 6.6 amps probably closer to 7 amps with all channels driven. Now, all this said, my receiver is made by Harmon Kardon, and they are one of the few to honestly list the power output. With 5 channels driven into 8 ohms, it was measured at over 140 watts per channel by one reviewer.

4. The final way to determine if the wattage rating is somewhat honest. Weight. Unless the receiver is a very new design with a switched digital power supply it will have a large power transformer. That MUST be fairly heavy for any amount of power, you cannot cheat physics, even if the marketing staff would like it to be able. My HK receiver weighs nearly 55 pounds. Yup... need a very sturdy shelf to hold it...

Expect a "true" 100 watt receiver to weigh 15-20 lbs or more.

Joe L.

Jailer

09-26-08, 09:09 PM

Johnla

09-27-08, 02:53 AM

IMHO, if you want bang for buck try and find a receiver that has 2 sets of main speaker outputs. Most will be labeled speakers "A" and "B". That way you can runs 2 shakers on each channel for a total of 8 with an 8 ohm load and not have to worry about overheating the amp and shutting it down.

Just split the output from the LFE channel of your main AVR and run it into both the left and right inputs on your shaker receiver. I used the "tape" input on mine.

I'm using 4 shakers right now on channel A of my old JVC receiver (2 on the right channel, 2 on the left) with the option of adding 4 more in the future if I choose to.

No, it don't work that way. Receivers with a set of speaker A & B output like you mention for a pair of stereo channels, are only just sharing the exact same amplifier power output via a selectable switch. Just because it has a A & B output, does not in any way mean it has two more additional amplifiers for the "B" outputs. It don't, it is only sharing power with the "A" outputs. And if you do what you mention, it still will be the same thing and the same load on the as running a total of 8 shakers (4 per channel) on only two L&R ouputs of the receiver.

spectrumbx

09-27-08, 11:37 AM

IMHO, if you want bang for buck try and find a receiver that has 2 sets of main speaker outputs. Most will be labeled speakers "A" and "B". That way you can runs 2 shakers on each channel for a total of 8 with an 8 ohm load and not have to worry about overheating the amp and shutting it down.

Just split the output from the LFE channel of your main AVR and run it into both the left and right inputs on your shaker receiver. I used the "tape" input on mine.

I'm using 4 shakers right now on channel A of my old JVC receiver (2 on the right channel, 2 on the left) with the option of adding 4 more in the future if I choose to.

If running at 8 ohms is your concern, then a receiver like mine is best.
I can run 12 shakers @ 8 ohms on its 6 channels set to full range and enabling multi channel stereo.

However, you are not restricted to an 8 ohm load and you will have other options depending on the receiver.

If your receiver only supports 2 ch stereo but also supports A+B (not just A/B), then, yes, you can effectively have 4 channels driven at 8 ohms with 8 shakers.

Jailer

09-27-08, 04:20 PM

No, it don't work that way. Receivers with a set of speaker A & B output like you mention for a pair of stereo channels, are only just sharing the exact same amplifier power output via a selectable switch. Just because it has a A & B output, does not in any way mean it has two more additional amplifiers for the "B" outputs. It don't, it is only sharing power with the "A" outputs. And if you do what you mention, it still will be the same thing and the same load on the as running a total of 8 shakers (4 per channel) on only two L&R ouputs of the receiver.

But each channel of the A and B will handle a pair of shakers. 8 Ohms per channel, 2 channels per speaker output. 4 total outputs with 2 shakers on each with an 8 Ohm load is 8 shakers without having to worry about overloading the receiver with a 4 ohm load.

If what you gave as an example was true, the receiver would see a 4 ohm load if both sets of speakers A and B were selected and that's just not the case. In your example of 8 shakers (4 on each of 2 channels) you can not come up with a 8 ohm load and keep the receiver functioning.

With my example you get 8 shakers all having the same load on the receivers amp and shaking the same amount.

Johnla

09-27-08, 10:39 PM

But each channel of the A and B will handle a pair of shakers. 8 Ohms per channel, 2 channels per speaker output. 4 total outputs with 2 shakers on each with an 8 Ohm load is 8 shakers without having to worry about overloading the receiver with a 4 ohm load.

If what you gave as an example was true, the receiver would see a 4 ohm load if both sets of speakers A and B were selected and that's just not the case. In your example of 8 shakers (4 on each of 2 channels) you can not come up with a 8 ohm load and keep the receiver functioning.

With my example you get 8 shakers all having the same load on the receivers amp and shaking the same amount.

No, you are wrong. If it only has a stereo L&R output, then it also ONLY has two channels of amplification for stereo L&R output. The fact that something may have A & B (or A+B) speaker switch, does not in any way double the amount of amplifiers it has or split the load on it. All it really does is share outputs, and the load will be the same as if you hooked up 4 shakers/speakers to each L&R output.

spectrumbx

09-28-08, 12:51 AM

No, you are wrong. If it only has a stereo L&R output, then it also ONLY has two channels of amplification for stereo L&R output. The fact that something may have A & B (or A+B) speaker switch, does not in any way double the amount of amplifiers it has or split the load on it. All it really does is share outputs, and the load will be the same as if you hooked up 4 shakers/speakers to each L&R output.

I believe that in the A+B case, power is transfered from the rear channel to the B channel.
This is effectively 4 channel stereo.

Johnla

09-28-08, 01:21 AM

I believe that in the A+B case, power is transfered from the rear channel to the B channel.
This is effectively 4 channel stereo.

If it is only a two channel receiver, that is not even at all possible, as there are no rear channels to transfer the power from. There are even many multi channel receivers that will not do that, unless there is a specific way for setting it up for using a otherwise unused set of rear channel outputs, such as a bi-amp setting on some AVR's. And most of the older or low cost AVR's that many people are thinking of using for this, do not have that feature. I used to have a older two channel Kenwood flagship receiver that weighed about 50lbs and was rated for 165wpc, and that actually tested in few magazine reviews back in that era to put out closer to 190wpc. And it had a A, B, C plus a A+B speaker selection switch, and there was no extra amps and no extra power available for when you operated it at A+B setting, it only shared the same power among them. And in fact, you could even see the extra draw showing up on the built in power meters it had, from the increased load of running two sets of speaker at one time.

Now if a multi channel receiver has a some sort of a stereo party mode setting, in order to run it as stereo L&R only output to all of the 5-7 speakers in a normal surround setup. Then other than not being called a A+B speaker switch setting, it probably would work somewhat like you say, and also probably work for the shakers with that type of setting as well, that is, if it is a available option on the AVR that's being used.

spectrumbx

10-04-08, 01:05 AM

Ok, I have everything setup, but now I have a problem.

I am doing :
- digital optical out to my main receiver, which drives the speakers
- digital coaxial out to a secondary receiver, which powers the shakers

My problem is that the shakers are getting the full range of sound, and at times shakes at unsolicited moments.

Are the shakers supposed to have a fix response range of 20-80hz?

miltimj

10-06-08, 11:29 AM

spectrumbx

10-06-08, 03:56 PM

spectrumbx, you should be connecting the analog RCA cable from the subwoofer pre-amp output of the receiver, not the digital coax output. Completely different signals (and analog vs digital).

As for limiting the output (which may be an issue even connected to the right output).. if you don't have a sub, you can set the crossover in your receiver to whatever level you want to limit the shaking even further (e.g. 50Hz). If you already have a sub connected to the sub output, then use an RCA Y-cable. You can then get an inline FMOD low-pass filter if you want additional filtering beyond the built-in crossover of the receiver.

Let me know if something above doesn't make sense..

My setup is as follow:

HTPC -> digital optical -> primary receiver -> speakers & subs
HTPC -> digital coaxial -> secondary reciever -> bass shakers

So, I have two receivers fully processing the digital sound out of my HTPC.

The full processing of the sound by the secondary receiver is where the problem lies.
It works, but the shakers are also outputting high/mid ranges.

I understand that I could connect the secondary receiver to the sub out of the primary one, but it is simpler for me to have my current configuration.

Anyway, it is looking like I am going to have to suck it up and do it the analog way.

Johnla

10-08-08, 03:46 AM

I understand that I could connect the secondary receiver to the sub out of the primary one, but it is simpler for me to have my current configuration..

It is not a matter of "could", or which way is "simpler" for you to hook up, it is a matter which way works for what you need it to do and which way don't.

What you are doing, by feeding the secondary receiver a full range digital signal will not work the way you need it to. To get the LFE signals that you need for the shakers into the secondary receiver, you must use the analog subwoofer output of the primary receiver to feed the analog inputs of the scecondary receiver.

LHD21

10-08-08, 11:51 AM

My setup is as follow:

HTPC -> digital optical -> primary receiver -> speakers & subs
HTPC -> digital coaxial -> secondary reciever -> bass shakers

I understand that I could connect the secondary receiver to the sub out of the primary one, but it is simpler for me to have my current configuration.

You'll need to connect the secondary receiver either inline (parrallel) with your current sub through LFE input or connect your secondary receiver to the line level out of your sub, if it has one. I havent seen a powered sub in some time that didnt have a line level out. Any other way is walking around the mountain to pee next door.

You could also do this:
HTPC -> digital optical -> primary receiver -> speakers & subs
HTPC -> digital coaxial -> secondary reciever LFE OUT-> Tertiary receiver -> bass shakers

but that would be VERY bassackwards. At that point you're simply using the secondary receiver to break out the LFE channel and you're using the tertiary receiver to provide the power to the shakers. It would work but why do it?

LHD21

10-08-08, 01:15 PM

Ok, I've been reading this thread for the better part of a week and there seems to be a handful of questions being asked over and over. I have recently hooked up a couple sets of shakers in my theater and will post some tools, info and things I've noticed.

Pro vs non-Pros

It seems from other's experiences and my phone calls to aura that there is no difference between the pro and standard bass shaker aside from the housing. The pros have fins to dissipate heat, the standards do not. These units were originally designed for car audio. This means operating in tiny spaces surrounded by lots of insulation. It also means that its probably going to be driven by some audio thats bass heavy which results in them being active more often than not. This is also why aura recommends them to be set at 100hz low pass. In a car there wont be any Darth Vader voices or door slams that break the realism, just music. I realize that people do watch movies in their cars and other things that result in situations other than described but these weren't intended for those exceptions.

In home audio, in situations where you have more ventilation, you could easily drive the standards with the same power as the pros. The LFE channel isn't nearly as active as it would be in a car unless you're watching something with insane bass. I've been watching Transformers, Iron-man, Jurassic park etc and had absolutely no issues with mine. Mine are mounted to the underside and rear of chairs and they're mostly open, though out of view. I measured them with an IR thermometer during some of the heavy LFE scenes of Jurassic Park and they were only 5 degrees above room temp. If you have them stuffed in a couch or some place that doesn't have a reasonable amount of thermal capacity, you may want to honor the posted wattages.

Parallel vs Serial installations

Lots of people have questions as to the correct method of installation. I found this (http://www.termpro.com/articles/spkrz.html) link earlier in the thread and used it to build the following excel spreadsheet.

http://i37.tinypic.com/2lmlba1.png

The spreadsheet will calculate all the important information simply by putting the specs of your speaker, amp and method of connection. (parallel, series or both) Its calculations are based on 1 channel which means if you plan to hook 3 shakers to your left channel and 4 to your right channel you'll have to fill out the spreadsheet twice. The user fills out the blue section and the red section is calculated.

The info I have displayed is for my current setup. I have 4 standard shakers, 4 ohms each and an amp that is rated at 150 watts at 4 ohms. You could say the amp is a 75 watt amp at 8 ohms and just know that its safe to run it at 4 ohms, the spreadsheet will account for that. As you can see, I could connect all 4 in series and be at 16 ohms for the channel. Almost any amp will handle that. The problem is my current amp will only deliver 9.3 watts per shaker. If I hook 2 of them up in parallel not only does the power skyrocket to 150 watts per shaker but the ohms for the channel drops to 2. My amp is only good down to 4 so that method is out. If I connect each pair in series and then connect the pairs in parallel I get rather good results. The channel is loaded at 4 ohms and all 4 shakers receive a max of 37.5 watts each. (almost like I planned it that way. ;) ) 37.5 watts gives me the ability to drive them up to their RMS yet is still under their peak, should I turn the amp all the way up.

My setup has 2 shakers in series in each chair, and both series circuits go to the amp in parallel. I have RCA connections between the shakers in the second chair and the amp. This way if I need to move chair 2 away from the chair with the amp in it I can simply unplug the RCA cables between the two. My original chair is left with 2 shakers in series which gives me the exact same output as when there were 4 connected.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2hcoikh.png

The load rises to 8 ohms on the channel and the per shaker output is still 37.5. Its invisible to whoever's sitting in the prime chair.

If you'd like a copy of the spreadsheet send me a PM with your email address.

If JL or someone else equally as knowledgeable would like to check my math I'll extend the parallel and series+parallel out to more than 2 and 4 drivers respectively.

Amplifier Used

It seems that most people want to use an old receiver to drive their shakers which is easily feasible should you know the specific properties of each channel. If its more than 2 channel or if it has an LFE output theres a good chance that any LFE signal routed to it could get cut out or unevenly distributed. To keep things easy I'll describe some of the serious gains from using a sub plate amp.

First of all, theres only 1 channel so its very easy to use the above spreadsheet to calculate which way works best for you. Most of them seem to support 4 ohm loads which makes it even easier in many cases to drive your shakers the most efficient way. Almost all have volume control thats easily adjustable. A good portion of them have an adjustable crossover which makes experimenting with performance very easy without the hassle of buying different FMODs or having to swap them in-line. I mounted my plate amp in the bottom of my chair, facing down, so I can simply reach down and modify the volume or crossover while sitting in the chair. Movies like Jurassic Park and Transformers have very good LFE and turning it down near 50hz gives a great effect. Iron-man on the other hand didn't seem to have as much LFE info and I have to turn up the crossover to near 100hz to get what I expect as acceptable feedback. You also don't need long runs of amplified signal since its only a few feet to the furthest shaker from the amp, which means you don't need to calculate the loss to the cable/change in channel ohms. Its easy to run line level feeds to the amp as well.

I also find it easy to do things if you buy your shakers in powers of 2. So 2 shakers is easy to do the math for, so is 4, 8 and 16. Id rather have 8 shakers being run efficiently with equal power distribution than 6 with odd power distribution.

spectrumbx

10-10-08, 01:32 PM

spectrumbx, you should be connecting the analog RCA cable from the subwoofer pre-amp output of the receiver, not the digital coax output. Completely different signals (and analog vs digital).

As for limiting the output (which may be an issue even connected to the right output).. if you don't have a sub, you can set the crossover in your receiver to whatever level you want to limit the shaking even further (e.g. 50Hz). If you already have a sub connected to the sub output, then use an RCA Y-cable. You can then get an inline FMOD low-pass filter if you want additional filtering beyond the built-in crossover of the receiver.

Let me know if something above doesn't make sense..

Ok, the sub out from my primary receiver (Y-663) into the secondary receiver (Sony) is not working.
The Sony will work with digital or analog stereo in, but not with the sub out from the Y-663.

Anyone knows why that is?
Also, if I was to go with a FMOD low-pass, it looks like it has to be applied before it gets to the receiver.

That won't work if I am doing digital in.
Am I missing something?

LHD21

10-10-08, 02:01 PM

Ok, the sub out from my primary receiver (Y-663) into the secondary receiver (Sony) is not working.
The Sony will work with digital or analog stereo in, but not with the sub out from the Y-663.

Anyone knows why that is?
Also, if I was to go with a FMOD low-pass, it looks like it has to be applied before it gets to the receiver.

That won't work if I am doing digital in.
Am I missing something?

Does your sony have a port on the back labeled either Subwoofer Out or LFE Out?

If it does, that's most likely the reason. The sony receiver strips the LFE signal out of the standard channels and pumps it to the dedicated sub out. By doing this you're not gaining anything because you're left with the signal dead ending at an unamplified port. This leaves the mains that you have connected to your shakers with no signal because you're only supplying the sony receiver LFE data.

spectrumbx

10-10-08, 03:03 PM

Does your sony have a port on the back labeled either Subwoofer Out or LFE Out?

If it does, that's most likely the reason. The sony receiver strips the LFE signal out of the standard channels and pumps it to the dedicated sub out. By doing this you're not gaining anything because you're left with the signal dead ending at an unamplified port. This leaves the mains that you have connected to your shakers with no signal because you're only supplying the sony receiver LFE data.

Well, that's not exactly correct.
It you set it to "no sub" it mixes the LFE back into the front speaker channels.

When I connect an analog stereo or digital input, it works.
However, when I connect the a sub out from another receiver, it does not. :(

I tried (LFE from primary sub into):
- direct audio (pure stereo - no additional processing)
- multi-channel in (connecting through its sub in)
- analog in (one of the DVD, SACD, etc. in)
nothing is working.

Again it works if you input in more than a LFE input.
However, the shakers end up rendering the full sound range instead of just the LFE.

LHD21

10-10-08, 03:57 PM

Well, that's not exactly correct.
It you set it to "no sub" it mixes the LFE back into the front speaker channels.

When I connect an analog stereo or digital input, it works.
However, when I connect the a sub out from another receiver, it does not. :(

I tried (LFE from primary sub into):
- direct audio (pure stereo - no additional processing)
- multi-channel in (connecting through its sub in)
- analog in (one of the DVD, SACD, etc. in)
nothing is working.

Again it works if you input in more than a LFE input.
However, the shakers end up rendering the full sound range instead of just the LFE.

I was going to take it there. Just wanted to establish what era your equipment was from.

Have you tried any other device hooked to your sub out? Do you have an RCA -> headphone converter. Plug some headphones in and see if you get some sound. Something besides the sony receiver to prove the output on your sub is hot.

spectrumbx

10-10-08, 04:58 PM

I was going to take it there. Just wanted to establish what era your equipment was from.

Have you tried any other device hooked to your sub out? Do you have an RCA -> headphone converter. Plug some headphones in and see if you get some sound. Something besides the sony receiver to prove the output on your sub is hot.

Yeah, the sub is hot.
I have two subs connected to it.

My receiver has two subs out.
One of the subs out is split through a Y and drives my 2x Klipsch RW-10D.
The other sub out connects to the Sony.

I tried both sub outs with the Sony.
I also tried sub out -> Y RCA -> RCA into the Sony.

Is there anything I could use to slightly amplify the sub out going into the Sony?
I think that might be the issue (that the Sony expects a slight amplified input).

spectrumbx

10-10-08, 06:28 PM

Update:

Connecting the Pre-Out Front from the primary to the Sony works, but of course anything below the crossover is missing.

Clearly the Sony refuses to process a channel if it does not have a high frequency.
If I connect the Pre-Out Sub (from the Y-663) to the Right-IN (on the Sony) and the Pre-Out Front Left (from the Y-663) to the Left-IN (on the Sony), only the left channel is process, and the right is dropped. :(

Grrr!

miltimj

10-10-08, 09:38 PM

LHD21, nice explanation. Why not just attach the spreadsheet to your post?

Spectrumbx, your receiver situation doesn't make much sense. Do you have another receiver or amp (heck, even a car audio amp) that you can try, even just for testing?

LHD21

10-10-08, 10:32 PM

LHD21, nice explanation. Why not just attach the spreadsheet to your post?

I'm not sure I had the option at the time. It was one of my first posts. I'll go back and add it, if I can at this point.

spectrumbx

10-11-08, 03:37 AM

Alright, I did further testing.
Again: Primary amp sub-out -> Sony stereo-in.

If I plug in a headphone, I can faintly hear the LFE out of the Sony.
I can also connect a subwoofer to the Sony and have the LFE playback fine.

It looks like the signal is really weak; hence, it is not able to drive the shakers.
So, it looks like the Sony is not really amplifying the LFE.

I guess I have to get myself a pure amp.

spectrumbx

10-11-08, 12:48 PM

....
You could also do this:
HTPC -> digital optical -> primary receiver -> speakers & subs
HTPC -> digital coaxial -> secondary reciever LFE OUT-> Tertiary receiver -> bass shakers
....

I am going this route.
This way I can control the amplitude of the shakers independently of the main output.

LHD21

10-11-08, 02:20 PM

I am going this route.
This way I can control the amplitude of the shakers independently of the main output.

What sub do you have? Does it have any signal level outs?

spectrumbx

10-11-08, 03:12 PM

What sub do you have? Does it have any signal level outs?

I have two Klipsch RW-10D. No signal out.
Plus, I really don't want the main receiver to control the shakers' volume.

At full sound level, I really don't need the shakers as the two subs rattle my theater room and everything in it.

My interest in the shakers has been to feel the bass when playing at a low volume or when listening through headphones.

If the shakers had an internal crossover, things would have been perfect with my current setup.
HTPC -> digital optical -> primary receiver -> speakers & subs
HTPC -> digital coaxial -> secondary reciever -> bass shakers

Anyway, I am shopping for a 3rd amp.

LHD21

10-11-08, 03:19 PM

I have two Klipsch RW-10D. No signal out.
Plus, I really don't want the main receiver to control the shakers' volume.

At full sound level, I really don't need the shakers as the two subs rattle my theater room and everything in it.

My interest in the shakers has been to feel the bass when playing at a low volume or when listening through headphones.

If the shakers had an internal crossover, things would have been perfect with my current setup.
HTPC -> digital optical -> primary receiver -> speakers & subs
HTPC -> digital coaxial -> secondary reciever -> bass shakers

Anyway, I am shopping for a 3rd amp.

Heres a pic I found of what you have to work with.
http://i34.tinypic.com/257ge1j.jpg

If you had line level outs on the sub you would still need an amplifier between the subs and your shakers. If you put a sub plate amp in there you could control volume, LPF and even turn them off.

HTPC -> digital optical -> primary receiver -> speakers & subs -> plate amplifier -> shakers

At that point you're using the exact same data as your subs and not un-encoding it twice.

If you put a standard receiver there you could do the same besides control the LPF.

How are you splitting the signal between your current receiver and subs now?

spectrumbx

10-12-08, 05:57 PM

That LFE line (in the pic) is an input and not an output.
Nevertheless, that plate amp thing would still not work properly since the primary receiver is still controlling the "base" volume of the sub out.

This is how your subs play louder as you increase the main volume.
At low volume, all of the sub outs will be weak volume wise, and that won't work for the shakers.

Decoding the data twice is the only way to go about it.

My receiver (Y-663) has two subs out (really an internal split).
Using a Y RCA cable, I can connect the two subs plus the shakers' receiver.
However, the Y-663 was controlling the base volume for all three, which is fine for the subs but not for the shakers.

For the setup I am foreseeing, the shakers will have their own decoder and amplifier units.
This is definitely more trouble than it is really worth, but I am too far into it to give up now.
I certainly would not do it again knowing what I know now, but oh well.

I just have to buy a cheap amp, and I will be all set.
On the plus side, I will be able to have the shakers at a different crossover and power level as I wish.

LHD21

10-13-08, 12:58 AM

That LFE line (in the pic) is an input and not an output.

I dont think anyone suggested that.

Nevertheless, that plate amp thing would still not work properly since the primary receiver is still controlling the "base" volume of the sub out.

This is how your subs play louder as you increase the main volume.
At low volume, all of the sub outs will be weak volume wise, and that won't work for the shakers.

You forget that the plate amp has a volume control of its own. I can have my LFE out on my amp set at -12db, my sub will be about half volume if its level is set to max and the shakers will still have enough juice to move at their normal level. I actually do this quite often when my gf is sleeping. There is little to no audible bass but my chair is bumping pretty hard.

Decoding the data twice is the only way to go about it.

My receiver (Y-663) has two subs out (really an internal split).
Using a Y RCA cable, I can connect the two subs plus the shakers' receiver.
However, the Y-663 was controlling the base volume for all three, which is fine for the subs but not for the shakers.

For the setup I am foreseeing, the shakers will have their own decoder and amplifier units.
This is definitely more trouble than it is really worth, but I am too far into it to give up now.
I certainly would not do it again knowing what I know now, but oh well.

I just have to buy a cheap amp, and I will be all set.
On the plus side, I will be able to have the shakers at a different crossover and power level as I wish.

You really are set on that particular way, which in my experience is not necessary. You can have a plate amp control the shakers independantly of your sub and due to the line level out of your main receiver the volume of the shakers will be controlled by the master volume. Basically its just replicating the exact same setup you already have with your current powered subs. They have plate amps that control their gain right at the input. You'll have the same setup with the shakers except they wont be nicely contained in a box.

So if you wanted to turn the subs up or down you could do it right by their built in amplifier, same as your shakers.

miltimj

10-13-08, 01:08 AM

You really are set on that particular way, which in my experience is not necessary. You can have a plate amp control the shakers independantly of your sub and due to the line level out of your main receiver the volume of the shakers will be controlled by the master volume.
I'm pretty sure that's what he meant by:
I just have to buy a cheap amp, and I will be all set.
On the plus side, I will be able to have the shakers at a different crossover and power level as I wish.
He wants to use the second sub out on his Y-663 to send to the new (to him, at least) "cheap amp", which will then go to the shakers. Full control via that amp as well as any separate channel capabilities the Y-663 has on the second sub out.

spectrumbx

10-13-08, 10:07 AM

You forget that the plate amp has a volume control of its own. I can have my LFE out on my amp set at -12db, my sub will be about half volume if its level is set to max and the shakers will still have enough juice to move at their normal level.

Yeah, I can do the same with my subs.

However, the 12db difference is not powerful enough.
I often have my main receiver set at -50/-40db at night (I live in a really quiet place).

I even tested this by going through the secondary zone on my main receiver.
The secondary zone is hard set at +2.5db.
So, I was doing:
Sub-out from Zone 1 -> CD-in for Zone 2 -> Zone 2 stereo out -> Shakers' receiver.

It was an improvement, but not sufficient enough unless I raised the Zone 1 volume to a very high level.
I guess I could test again by reducing all speaker levels to -12db, leave the sub level intact, and raise the subs gains by +12db.
I could end up with a 14.5db gain if I go through Zone 2 again.

I am still buying a third amp/receiver though.
This way the subs and shakers will be at different crossovers and fully independent volume levels.

I'm pretty sure that's what he meant by:

He wants to use the second sub out on his Y-663 to send to the new (to him, at least) "cheap amp", which will then go to the shakers. Full control via that amp as well as any separate channel capabilities the Y-663 has on the second sub out.

No, he got where I was going. :)

LHD21

10-13-08, 11:07 AM

Make certain to post pics after you get it setup. :D

grod777

11-05-08, 07:15 PM

I hope this thread is still alive. I am getting introduced to bass shakers. I have read through several pages and have found the info helpful. I have a couple of questions and hope someone can help.
I have an AVR with a sub out which I have split for two subs (L&R). I still have my old AVR which I will use to drive the Bass Shakers. Now since I have the LFE split already do I split the LFE input on both my subs to goto the DVD input of AVR 2 or can I use the LFE from one of my subs unused channels to goto AVR 2?
Will either scenario degrade the LFE? Or should I just try all possible combinations to see which works for me?

miltimj

11-10-08, 03:56 PM

grod777

11-10-08, 04:51 PM

Where will the 2nd AVR go? Near the first AVR, or near a sub? Just branch off at either location and it should work fine. If you can use any option, I'd use to Y-cables, the first going to the 2nd AVR and a 2nd Y, and the 2nd Y going to each sub.

The 2nd AVR will go next to the 1st AVR. I way actually thinking of doing it that way. I will just have to adjust the subs levels using a meter.

miltimj

11-11-08, 10:24 AM

That's a good way to do it in general (SPL meter), but it shouldn't change anything by doing it the way I suggested, Y-out from the AVR1. You may want to add a low pass FMOD inline to AVR2 if you don't have a crossover on that AVR.

jamis

11-11-08, 10:36 AM

Just thought I'd post some pics of my shaker install in my set of Berkline 13175's.

I have 6 Aura Pro bass shakers wired in series/parallel to a 300W BASH subwoofer plate amp mounted in my av closet.

I basically have two rows of 3 seats. Each row has a speaker wire running to the equipment closet. The seats in each row are wired in series, and the rows are then wired in parallel.

I have a Y-splitter on the subwoofer out on my Denon 3808CI... one wire to the subwoofer, the other to the amp for the shakers. My receiver is crossed-over at 90Hz and the subwoofer's crossover is disabled. The shaker amp is crossed-over at 50Hz.

http://www.mostlyharmless.org/theater/kick5.jpg

The seats are tilted forward with the backs removed
http://www.mostlyharmless.org/theater/kick1.jpg

http://www.mostlyharmless.org/theater/kick2.jpg

unrealskill

11-27-08, 03:02 PM

crazy set up!

4g vtec

12-09-08, 06:36 PM

i got a set of these

1 on the couch and 1 on the love seat

i must say that i am very impressed on how well this things are working so far.... intensity and reponse are top notch

one of the best things i have done to my theater setup

formulanerd

12-16-08, 11:53 AM

ok, so i've scanned through a lot of this thread, and plan on reading every page (though its going to take a while) but what i'm looking for is to add two of the small aura's to my recliner (maybe only one if i need it?) and a small amp would be nice if i could mount that under as well... whats best for this situation? a small subwoofer amp? something else? i'd like to get by with just running power and maybe an rca to the chair, or if i had to, hide the small amp behind my tv stand or such and just run a speaker cable, total distance will not exceed 10 feet.

my main AVR is the yammy 663, which is 7.1+1 and i'll only be using 5.1+1... i do have another AVR (older 5.1 pio) but i'd rather not run two avrs due to lack of equipment space on my tv stand.

any recommendations?

edit: also, i'd REALLY like it if the shakers worked when i have the headphones plugged in (i do a lot of headphone gaming)

miltimj

12-16-08, 01:57 PM

formulanerd, it depends whether you have power conveniently located at the recliner, and whether an amp will fit under it mounted somehow. It's typically easier to just run a speaker cable from the amp located near the other components.

I'm not aware of any receivers that will have the sub active with headphones in (or any preouts or speakers, for that matter) - there would need to be some kind of pass-through. But that brings up a great point - this can't be a completely uncommon scenario.

The only thing I can think of is, if you know you will only do this with games, use the RCA out (L+R Y-ed) of the console straight to 2nd amp/receiver, and set low-pass crossover on that to around 50Hz. If no crossover, you can use a low-pass FMOD. Then connect the digital out to digital in of primary receiver. If you don't have a digital input to your primary receiver, split the analog outs from the console.

Connect the output of the 1st receiver to the input of the second (before the FMOD, if applicable) to get shaking from other components in your system. Use the first receiver to connect headphones, and the second amp/receiver to power the shakers.

You're not going to get away from using two amps/receivers that I know of.

jeffboat

01-01-09, 07:22 PM

I have a two tiered riser that is carpeted, my questions is can I mount my aura transducers (8) to the top of the platform? also my platform is on a concrete slab, should I isolate it?

J. L.

01-01-09, 08:31 PM

I have a two tiered riser that is carpeted, my questions is can I mount my aura transducers (8) to the top of the platform? also my platform is on a concrete slab, should I isolate it?Yes under the seats might work just fine, even if on top of the riser.

And yes, isolation from the slab is necessary unless you think you can shake your concrete slab. (shaking concrete is not too likely unless you have 1000's of watts of power)

jeffboat

01-01-09, 09:24 PM

Thanks J.L. for the advise, I've read a lot of this thread, and it is full of great advise thanks to people like you. Sincerely

iresq

01-07-09, 07:34 AM

Anyone got an extra fmod laying around. I know they come in packs of 2 but I only need 1. Thanks.

HarryH

01-10-09, 12:09 PM

I'm renovating a bonus room over my garage into a home theater. My 8 Berkline's will be at the dealer within the week, and I'm going to build a riser for the second row of four chairs. I'm looking at Bass Shaker Pro's from PE, and I had been planning on getting 8 shakers, one/chair.

Couple of questions…I thought I had it all planned out in my head until I started reading more of this thread last night! These are more of the "whadda ya think?" questions rather than the "how to wire so as not to melt the amp with low resistance circuit" questions (at least I think so!)

1.) I had seen jamis's photos (above, #1642) of the Bass Shaker Pro's in the junction between the seat back and the seat cushion and thought that was pretty easy to mount. I had wondered if the placement might be "less focussed" on my tush (i.e., more realistic?) if I went with the board across the metal frame that the Buttkicker retrofit package (http://www.thebuttkicker.com/downloads/resources/Berkline%20ButtKicker%20Upgrade%20Instructions_v2.pdf) uses. Obviously, the BK couldn't fit where jamis put his Bass Shakers, but I'm wondering if the lower mounting point (i.e., wooden plate across the bottom of the metal frame, DIY version for me, though) would lessen the (less powerful than BK) Bass Shaker effect too much. Any thoughts?

2.) Amp question…"quick" (sorry) background: I also was going to use the 300w BASH amp that jamis was using, but since my wife wanted to be able to defeat the shaking if she didn't like it, I had thought about a switch setup to turn off either of the two rows or shakers (4/row, 1/chair)…after much thought, it seemed like the best way to do it to avoid a low resistance parallel setup was to actually use two separate amps, one for each row. I was also going to mount the two amps on the back of my riser (speaker wire wall plate on front to connect the front row), so I (a) wouldn't have to go into the equipment closet to turn one down, (b) wouldn't have to run as many wires to the amps (one line level wire) and (c) I could get the amps powered by a different wall outlet circuit from my equipment and not overpower the circuit, etc.

After perusing the thread, I've wondered if the 300w amp for 4 shakers is overkill. I also have an old Onkyo TX-84M stereo receiver (circa 1988…yeahhh, baby!) with 60w/channel RMS @ 8 ohms; it has A and B speaker outputs…the manual says "only speaker systems rated at 8 ohms or more should be used…if only one pair of speakers is used, the load impedance must be at least 4 ohms". After reading the posts about page 15-18, it seems that many are pleased with the use of an old receiver to power the shakers.

So, any opinions on my options?
a.) two sets of 300w BASH/4 shakers (two independent amps for two groups of 4),
b.) same as above, but smaller amps, likely go with Daytons from PE (How much smaller would be good? They have 25w, 70w, 100w and 240w)
c.) A/B speaker outs off of the old Onkyo (A for front row of 4 shakers, B for the back)
d.) go with an old receiver or amp, just one with more than 60w/channel (and then how many watts to drive all 8 shakers)?

Sorry so long, but I didn't want to nickel and dime with partial info and multiple posts. Thanks in advance for reading this far!

Harry

jamis

01-13-09, 01:12 PM

So, any opinions on my options?
a.) two sets of 300w BASH/4 shakers (two independent amps for two groups of 4),
b.) same as above, but smaller amps, likely go with Daytons from PE (How much smaller would be good? They have 25w, 70w, 100w and 240w)
c.) A/B speaker outs off of the old Onkyo (A for front row of 4 shakers, B for the back)
d.) go with an old receiver or amp, just one with more than 60w/channel (and then how many watts to drive all 8 shakers)?

Sorry so long, but I didn't want to nickel and dime with partial info and multiple posts. Thanks in advance for reading this far!

Harry

1.) I find my mounting option fairly non-localized as to where you feel most of the impact. It has a bias towards your butt/lower-back, but overall it seems pretty even to me. That said, I mounted my shakers where I did totally for the ease of install. You could always rig up one chair like I did it and another with the other approach and compare the effect (I actually rigged up all the shakers to the amp to test them before mounting them to the chairs).

a.) The 300W BASH amp is more than enough for my 6 shakers. My guess is that it could probably do 8 though I figured it was better to have too much power at my disposal than not enough. I wouldn't get the 300W amp for 4 shakers.

b.) Given the price difference ($5) at PE for the 100W vs. the 240W Dayton amps, I'd go with two 240's. As I said before... I'd rather have too much power... :)

c./d.) While using the old receiver is great when money is an issue... I prefer using subwoofer amps for the independent and easy to access crossover/gain controls.

blued888

01-16-09, 02:10 PM

Where do you guys place the plate amps powering the bass shakers? Do you make some sort of casing/enclosure for them?

miltimj

01-16-09, 02:16 PM

Some will mount it next to their other components, or mount to the riser if that's where the shakers are on. If there's not an "obvious" option for you somewhere, then there may be a better option if your situation fits.

If you're buying from scratch, and your components are further away from your gear (where they can be slightly more noisy), you should get a rack mountable pro amplifier. They're a little bit more expensive, but provide much more power, usually have more features, and are easier to place with the rest of your components.

beartooth

01-16-09, 02:29 PM

Where do you guys place the plate amps powering the bass shakers? Do you make some sort of casing/enclosure for them?

My powered sup sits in the corner. I just threw the plate amp on the floor next to it. It's more or less hidden by the powered sub.

They really don't need an enclosure/rack, unless you want/need them to look nicer.

jamis

01-16-09, 03:21 PM

The inside of my equipment closet is unfinished so I mounted the plate amp between two studs.

If that wasn't an option for me, I'd have built a small MDF box to mount it in.

beartooth

01-16-09, 03:24 PM

If that wasn't an option for me, I'd have built a small MDF box to mount it in.

Small really isn't an option for most of these amps. Unless you build one with some sort of fan in it, you'll burn it up. Just noting that as it might not be obvious. Mine is 200w, and i'm surprised at how hot it gets when it's doing a lot.

jamis

01-16-09, 03:51 PM

Small really isn't an option for most of these amps. Unless you build one with some sort of fan in it, you'll burn it up. Just noting that as it might not be obvious. Mine is 200w, and i'm surprised at how hot it gets when it's doing a lot.

Yeah...with a fan or adequate ventilation/openings.

Though there are some sealed subs out there with pretty massive amps built in... :)

beartooth

01-16-09, 03:55 PM

Yeah...with a fan or adequate ventilation/openings.

Though there are some sealed subs out there with pretty massive amps built in... :)

I definitely agree. My comment was more for folks who might miss the heat issue and just build a box that it'll fit in...a $200 mistake! ;->

will_53115

02-07-09, 09:51 AM

jamis

02-07-09, 10:21 AM

Ok, I have read thread after thread and decided to just post my situation. I LOVE the home theater sound and I have just finished my room in the basement. I went a little crazy buying things and now realize I have no clue what I am doing!!!

This is what I have and need to know how to hook it all up with shakers.
TV: 73" Mitsubishi DLP
RECEIVER: ONKYO TX-SR606
AMP: Dayton SA100 100W Subwoofer Amplifier for shakers
Speakers: Klipsch Quintet III Home Theater System
Sub: Klipsch KSW-12 Subwoofer
(6) Aura Pro Bass Shakers to go into (6) Theater Seats

I know this is a lot to ask but half the fun is learning how to do these things.

My web hosting is down, so apologies for the attachment... but this should do it.

Set the crossover on the Dayton amp as low as it will go (~40-50Hz) and start at about 1/3 gain (volume). Set your receiver crossover and sub output level as normal (80-100Hz).

Adjust the gain/volume on the Dayton amp as needed to get the shaking effect to your liking.

windrockwater

02-10-09, 02:03 PM

Please don't flame me :) but where is the best source for these Auro Pro Shakers? I see them on ebay for $85 a pair?

will_53115

02-10-09, 03:33 PM

Just bought mine from Parts Express for $34 each.

rms8

02-16-09, 07:01 PM

Where do you guys place the plate amps powering the bass shakers? Do you make some sort of casing/enclosure for them?

Looking at my rack below, I mounted 3 ParaPix plate amps in a homemade enclosure and placed that at the top right. This powers the 8 BassShakers in the couches.

The large buttkickers are powered by the buttkicker amp directly to the left of my HTPC. The other buttkicker amp powers SubZilla.

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq137/rms8/Home%20Theater/IMG_1613.jpg

jamis

02-17-09, 07:13 AM

Looking at my rack below, I mounted 3 ParaPix plate amps in a homemade enclosure and placed that at the top right. This powers the 8 BassShakers in the couches.

The large buttkickers are powered by the buttkicker amp directly to the left of my HTPC. The other buttkicker amp powers SubZilla.

Do your lights dim when you power it all up? :)

I like what you did with the plate amps.

rms8

02-17-09, 09:19 AM

Do your lights dim when you power it all up? :)

I like what you did with the plate amps.

I finished my HT myself (everything except installing the carpet). When I built the equipment closet, I ran ELEVEN 20amp circuits into that room alone (there's at least 10 in the HT room itself). I soon discovered that I needed to put each of those Buttkicker amps on it's own breaker!

Fortunately I had the foresight to install a 2.5" PVC pipe to each "drop" that terminated into my breaker box area, which is also where all the telco/cable/satellite feeds enter the house. So running additional power, or RG6 or whatever else is easy, since I drywalled my ceiling. ;)

mspguy

03-04-09, 06:24 PM

Hi - I'm looking for suggestions on a suitable amp to run 6 bass shakers. I don't have anywhere to mount a plate amp, so wondering if there's another suitable option for something that will sit on component audio rack, look clean, and still be comparable in price to some of the plate amps I've seen most people using here.

Thanks very much!

miltimj

03-04-09, 10:50 PM

mspguy

03-05-09, 02:11 AM

mspguy, best price to performance is a pro-series amp, but those are a rack-mounted design, and if you want it to look like other components in your system (I'm assuming they're not in a rack), then the best option is typically an old receiver with decent stereo power. Connect three in series to each channel (L/R) and you're good to go.

Craigslist would be a perfect place to find something like this.

Thanks. I found the following.. It looks like this would work fine without needing any additional equipment (except the 6 shakers and wire of course). What do you think?

It looks like this unit is normally included with their BassX-W10 sub (as mentioned in the instructions below).

Speaker Craft BBXW10 Amplifier
Type: Mono Class A-B dedicated subwoofer amplifier
Power Output: 250 watts per channel
Crossovers: Variable Low Pass Crossover 35Hz to 150 Hz, Fixed High Pass Crossover at 75Hz
THD @ 10 Watts: 0.1%
Input Sensitivity: 8.6 mv
Input Impedance: 33 kOhms
Auto Off Time: > 15 minutes
Auto On Sensitivity: 2.5 mv
Signal to noise ratio: > 70dB
Dimensions: H 33⁄8" x W 17" x D 111⁄2" (add 3⁄4" for feet & 4" for rear panel connectors)
Weight: 16 lbs.

Amplifier Operation

PROTECTION CIRCUITRY
If the “Protection” circuit in the amplifier is activated, it indicates one of the following situations has occurred:

i. The amplifier detects that the subwoofer is in danger of overheating and has temporarily shut down to protect the woofer. The amplifier will return to “Active” without any intervention necessary.

ii. A fault in the wiring, the speaker, or the amplifier. If the amplifier remains off, turn the power button off and then on. If the amplifier returns to the protection mode, turn the amplifier off and refer to the troubleshooting section of this manual.

FRONT PANEL CONTROLS

i. Volume Control
Use this to match the output of the subwoofer to that of the main speakers in the system. We recommend that you play a variety of material before selecting a setting. Start with the control in the “Off” position (completely counterclockwise) and slowly turn it up. NOTE: Turning the volume up slowly will prevent possible damage to the woofer from the system being run too “hot”. Very little movement of the knob is needed. CAUTION: If a popping sound (clipping) is audible through the subwoofer, it is being over driven, reduce the volume of the amplifier, or speaker damage may occur!

REAR PANEL CONTROLS
The following controls allow you to blend the sound wave output of the BassX-W10 to the output of the main speakers in your system.

i. Power Switch
The switch marked “Power” on the rear panel of the amplifier will turn off all amplifier circuitry and override the auto sense mode in the off position. NOTE: See paragraph v., below, before turning on the amplifier.

ii. Low Frequency (Low Pass) Crossover
Use this control to adjust the upper frequency limit of the BassX-W10. The purpose is to control the overlap of the BassX-W10’s upper frequencies and the main speaker’s lower frequencies. If the you are using the built-in high frequency (High Pass) crossover by connecting speakers to the speaker output connectors this control will not affect the fixed 75Hz setting.

iii. Bass Boost Control
This control allows you to increase bass response between 50 and 100Hz for certain types of audio that lacks in bass, such as old recordings etc.

iv. Polarity Control
This control allows you to match the arrival times of the sound waves of the BassX-W10 and the main speak- ers to your listening area. While the system is playing, flip the switch to the 180º and back to 0º until the bass sounds louder or less boomy. Depending on placement and room acoustics, this control may or may not have any affect.

v. Volume Limit Control
Use this control to adjust the maximum volume setting for your BassX-W10 system. With the Volume Limit control and front mounted volume control turned all the way down counterclockwise), turn on the subwoofer and start playing audio through your system. Turn the system up to the highest comfortable level – WITHOUT DISTORTION. Now turn up the subwoofer volume on the front panel of the BBXW10 subwoofer amplifier all the way. No bass should play. Next SLOWLY turn up the volume limit control until the subwoofer is playing at its
loudest level WITHOUT DISTORTION. Return levels to normal. Now anyone can safely turn up the subwoofer all the way without damaging the system.

Darin

03-05-09, 09:07 AM

One thing you guys need to keep in mind when searching for amps is that most amps have fairly significant roll-off at some low frequency to prevent power on/off thumps, and to protect themselves and the drivers they are connected to. If you aren't really picky about having them go deep into the infrasonics, then that may not matter. But if you are looking for your transducers to work down into the range where things are supposed to shake, finding out how well an amp does in that range isn't always easy without testing it.

I have a 500w BASH plate amp powering the shakers in my furniture, and its stock configuration had it rolling off above 20hz, IIRC. You have to do some solder work to change out some resistors and/or capacitors to get it down to the single digits.

The easiest thing to do is to just get a buttkicker amp and be done with it. They have good output to 5hz and below, they run cool, they can be powered off of 240v, they can handle 2 ohm loads, and they have PLENTY of power (I have one powering six buttkickers with no problem). You can find these on ebay for around $200 if you watch for them. Yeah, I did have that one that caught on fire, but other than that, they can't be beat for this purpose. Just don't mount anything flammable above them! :D

miltimj

03-05-09, 11:13 AM

Good point, Darin. Is there a list of amps that have been tested for ultra-low frequencies? That'd be especially useful in this thread. Thanks for the info!

Darin

03-05-09, 11:56 AM

Not that I'm aware of. That's the problem... it tends to be fairly elusive information. Sometimes in the DIY forum you can find people who are familiar with certain amps and know what those points are. In the case of the BASH amp, there's a document available on the Parts Express site with charts that showed the bass boost and cut-off frequencies, and resistor values required to change them. I don't remember what values I used, but I had to change it so much that I had to extrapolate off the charts.

mspguy

03-06-09, 02:32 AM

One thing you guys need to keep in mind when searching for amps is that most amps have fairly significant roll-off at some low frequency to prevent power on/off thumps, and to protect themselves and the drivers they are connected to.

Darin - not sure if this was directed to my post just above yours, and if you're commenting on the specs for the Speaker Craft amp that I've found. Are there concerns about this amp being adequate to drive 6 shaker pros?

I also know someone selling a new Buttkicker amp, but for about twice the price as what I can get the used Speaker Craft amp (which is comparable $$ to a plate amp). So, dollar for dollar is the Buttkicker really going to be twice as good as the Speaker Craft I mentioned above or is the Speaker Craft not up to snuff when compared to the plate amps? I don't mind spending the extra for the Buttkicker, if it's really necessary and going to provide that much of a noticeable difference.

Sorry for all the questions, this amp business is all new to me. And I'd prefer not to have a plate amp for the simple reason that it won't work well in my audio cabinet. Appreciate anyone's feedback.

Cheers,
-msp

Darin

03-06-09, 07:33 AM

Darin - not sure if this was directed to my post just above yours, and if you're commenting on the specs for the Speaker Craft amp that I've found. Are there concerns about this amp being adequate to drive 6 shaker pros?

It wasn't directed specifically to you, I just saw there were lots of amp questions recently. I have no knowledge of the Speaker Craft amp, so I can't say one way or another. That amp appears to be specifically for their own subwoofer. You might get a clue to its low frequency performance by looking at the sub... if their sub is a sealed design, then it might be fine. If it's ported, then I wouldn't be surprised if they had a high pass filter (separate from the listed one) in the amp to protect the driver below the tuning point (and if so, the sub's rated frequency response might give an indication of what that might be). But those would just be educated guesses, hard to say what they actually did. Fortunately, the adjustable low pass filter goes down to 35 hz, which would suggest that the amps response must go reasonably below that. You might even try contacting them to see if they can list the amps response.

As far whether or not it's sufficient for six shaker pros, I would say it most definitely is. Auras have a very strong resonance around 40hz, and have significantly less output at 20hz and below. Personally, I prefer to have tactile feedback focused more in the 25hz and below range, and it takes a lot of EQ to get them to do that. If you DO try to eq them to get decent output down to around 10hz (which is the lowest I've been able to get with them), they run out of excursion really fast, so it takes a lot of them to make up for that. I have 25 Auras split between a full size sofa and love seat, powered by a 500w amp, and the power is sufficient (so 20w per shaker). If you let them run "natural" with most of their energy focused in the 40hz range, the excursion limit is less of an issue, so you can give them more power. But then, you may not want to give them a lot more power in that case, because it may get too "buzzy".

I assume you are getting that amp in the $100 range, and if so, it's not a bad deal. I'm simply saying that for people looking for amps, and sometimes paying new prices, you may just want to get a used BK amp... you can never have too much power, and it takes away the guesswork as to whether or not a specific amp is even suitable for very low frequency output. I started off with 12 shakers in my furniture powered by a cheap stereo receiver. Then I upped it to 16. Then I went to the 500w amp. Then I added two BK transducers to my floor powered by a BK amp. Then I upped the shakers in my furniture to 25. Then I upped the BK transducers to 6. I can finally say I have more than enough tactile feedback (but again, the only reason I need so much is because if the large amount of EQ I'm doing), but it would have been a lot easier had I realized that from the beginning. I'm simply saying... for the price that BK amps are going for on ebay these days, some people may be better off starting with more power than they think they need.

mspguy

04-05-09, 09:32 PM

I just installed the 6 shakers in my new Coaster Studio seats. I've finished the wiring and connected them to the sub amp I mentioned in earlier posts (rear panel picture attached). I'm getting very little shaking. When I turn the amp to max, I get a bit more. But nothing like I know I should be feeling. I suspect I may be doing something wrong with my install. Can someone please check my work? I've attached a diagram of my wiring, which seems to be in line with what others are recommending here. I've also attached a picture of the back panel of my sub amp. I have used the y-cable to split the sub-out from the main AVR, with one line going to the SW and the other going to the amp. It's going into the "LFE" jack on the amp, which the specs say is the input for LFE. Then I have the + and - of the shaker wiring connected to the "subwoofer out" posts on the amp.

Any idea what I may be doing wrong? Thanks for any advice!

Happytobehere200

04-06-09, 02:57 PM

jkhome

04-19-09, 12:57 PM

Hey folks, I have a "spare channel" on a Mackie FR1400 pro amp (the other side drives the center channel). Could I use this for bass shakers, if so which one(s)?

http://www.mackie.com/products/frseries/

We just purchased a dual reclining H.T. style love seat (seats two, cup holders in the middle), which is where I would like to install the shakers.

elphillips

04-30-09, 05:00 PM

Has anyone used a Buttkicker set up with a Velodyne SMS-1 (subwoofer management system)? Any problems? I was wondering about setting the subsonic slopes, roll off, below 20hz.

John H

04-30-09, 08:54 PM

Has anyone used a Buttkicker set up with a Velodyne SMS-1 (subwoofer management system)? Any problems? I was wondering about setting the subsonic slopes, roll off, below 20hz.

I don't see why you could not use a SMS-1 on your ButtKickers signal.

Why would you want to roll off the subsonics below 20 Hz?

I use a 20 Hz lowpass on my original ButtKicker setup. I have strong (earthquake type/eye blurring) output down through 7 Hz. Output is still usable at 6 Hz and drops of at 5 Hz.

John

Darin

04-30-09, 10:00 PM

I agree with John. I specifically want the Buttkickers limited to the infrasonic range. I have mine rolled off steeply above around 12hz (though I do let the auras on my sofa/loveseat to go up to the upper 20s). In my setup, the buttkickers feel strongest in the 7-8hz range. But I'm sure it helps that they are attached to the floor joists of my room, and I've added a big spring to help suspend it. High mass and high compliance = low resonant point, which helps shift the response of the floor/buttkickers as a system lower.

elphillips

04-30-09, 11:00 PM

John H and Darin; thanks for the info.

elphillips

05-02-09, 07:47 PM

Just got my BK system set up. Included is the BK-Link2 wireless unit. Guitammer doesn't tell the user that if the sender/receiver units aren't placed higher then six feet or so, walking across the room, breaking the beam, produces a sharp thunk from the BK-LEF.

fuj32

05-17-09, 02:38 PM

I realize that you are supposed to use the Sub-out from the primary receiver and take this to the seperate secondary amp for the shakers. I have denon receiver that does not have a sub-out on the back as it is only a 2 channel. In this set up of the house I dont use a sub as I have definitive towers with powered subs in them. The back of the receiver does have the pre-out/main-in jacks. I thought that i have heard that you could use these to connect a sub if desired.(is this true by the way). My real question is, can I hook up these shakers with my 2 channel receiver somehow? Would the sub out on the DVD player work? PLEASE HELP

HarryH

05-17-09, 05:30 PM

My real question is, can I hook up these shakers with my 2 channel receiver somehow? Would the sub out on the DVD player work? PLEASE HELP

I also want to use an older stereo receiver to power my shakers. My Onkyo 605 LFE output will be "Y"-d to the sub and to the shaker amp (i.e., old receiver) with an FMOD (from Part Express) in the shaker side of the LFE channel output to cut out any frequencies >50 Hz. This should be the same thing you could do with the full range output instead of the LFE output I'll be using.

Pick the FMOD for the frequency range you want going to the shakers…seems like there are individual preferences…I picked 50Hz as that seemed to be a popular choice (but I haven't yet gotten it set up).

Harry

fuj32

05-18-09, 11:30 AM

harry,

Thanks for the reply, however I think there is some confusion. My main receiver is the Denon 2 channel. I have several back up receivers to choose from to power the shakers. I understand everything about the shaker receiver and how to hook that up. I just dont know if this is all possible for me since I dont have a sub out on my Main (denon) receiver. does that make more sense?

HarryH

05-18-09, 01:01 PM

So, why couldn't you "Y" the full range output that you send to one of the main speakers and put an FMOD in the shaker side off the Y to cut out anything above 50 Hz?

fuj32

05-18-09, 01:34 PM

I suppose I could. But I'm not familiar with splitting something other than RCA cables. If I were to "Y" the output to the main speakers like you said... (the output to the main speakers is obviously connected with actually speaker wire from MAIN receiver to the Speakers). I might be missing something here. Sorry. I do understand the theory however.

HarryH

05-18-09, 01:53 PM

Good point (I had actually just thought of that nuance after my last post, but you beat me to it!). I'm not sure you can split the speaker wire easily; RCA obviously works. Maybe the pre-out jack would work with an FMOD attached…might check your receiver's manual as to how to utilize the pre-out…it may be intended to be used with a separate sub that has it's own adjustable frequency crossover circuitry (ie, low-pass filter like an FMOD but adjustable not fixed frequency).

Harry

fuj32

05-18-09, 03:01 PM

yes...that makes more sense. I think that would be a good idea, as long as it is safe to do. THANKS

dan webster

05-30-09, 10:49 PM

I am new to bass shakers. What would be the best configuration for three shakers.

J. L.

05-30-09, 11:58 PM

I am new to bass shakers. What would be the best configuration for three shakers.There is only one if you have a single channel amplifier... all in series. it will be a 12 ohm load and they will all shake equally.

IF you had an amplifier that could handle 1 ohm loads, you could put them all in parallel, but I don't know of any amplifier like that, so don't try. Odds are any normal plate amplifier would do one of four things when presented with three in parallel:
1. The over-current protection would kick in and keep the transistors from self destructing.
2. The over-current protection would not kick in, and the transistors would self-destruct, possibly taking your shakers out with them.
3. The unit would overheat, and the thermal cutoff would power it down before it caught fire.
4. The unit would overheat, and it would not power down, but instead it would go up in a ball of flame and smoke. (keep your fire-insurance premiums paid up for this scenario)

As I said, all in series is a very nice safe 12 ohm load.

Joe L.

fuj32

06-01-09, 12:35 AM

If anyone has any ideas on how to hook up the secondary (shaker) receiver without having a subout on the primary receiver (only a 2 channel), PLEASE let me know. Do you think the sub out on the DVD player would work. I ordered 2 shakers and they should be in on tuesday, so I guess I will just find out on my own soon enough. Thanks

Justin

King Titus

06-10-09, 09:43 PM

On the wireless BKA 300, if 4 complete kits (amps) are hooked together (4 chairs). Do you still need the remote receiver plugged into the rest of the 3 amp?
Meaning Amp 1, has its (receiver plug in), but the rest of the amps are daisy chained by RCA cables and info cables.

Thanks

PS
Great customer service if something is not right.
When you turn them off at low volumes, which takes the subs down for late night listening, you wonder how you lived without them for movies!

Alan Winslow

06-12-09, 05:25 PM

In hooking up, up to 4 shakers I have had great luck with the Monster Cable SS4 - 4 way selector. It regulates the correct impedance to each shaker and if a person in 1 of the chairs is not enjoying it you can turn that shaker off.
For $25 - $30 shipped it works great.

http://shop.ebay.com/items/?_nkw=monster+speaker+selector&_sacat=0&_trksid=p3286.m270.l1313&_dmpt=Camera_Lenses&_odkw=sigma+100-300mm+canon&_osacat=625

GoCaboNow

06-13-09, 09:32 PM

I am powering 3 shakers with an old 2 channel Onkyo receiver. The shakers are very powerful even with the Onkyo volume level at 10 % of max. However, they are shakng at higher frequencies than I would like so after reading through this thread I believe I need a low pass fmod. Where is the best place to get this and what frequency is the norm? 50hz? Do they make adjustable fmods?

miltimj

06-13-09, 09:56 PM

There are no variable FMods that are one simple unit - you either get a specific frequency low/high pass, or you'll need a separate crossover/EQ device, or a receiver with multiple sub outputs with multiple low pass crossovers built-in.

Typical that I've seen is 50Hz, and Parts Express is a cheap place to get them, though they come in pairs.

fuj32

06-15-09, 03:48 PM

Just bought some low pass 50hz from parts express for about 29 including shipping. I am only using one though. Maybe I can find a use for the other one someday. I wish they would sell them individually. But, PE was the only place I could find them. Goodluck

miltimj

06-15-09, 05:05 PM

You can connect the two of them together to get twice the filtering of higher freq. signals, as well. Some have said that works very well (kinda wish I would've done that myself instead of splitting the pack with someone).

bfuke

06-16-09, 08:05 AM

I recently purchased three Aura Pro Bass Shakers off Craigslist for $45 total and installed them in my Berkline 090s (also bought off Craigslist a while ago). I installed them in the seat backs using an installation method I found on this forum. I also just got a Harmon Kardon 254 off E**y.

I ran the HK's subwoofer preamp out to my powered sub and then from the line out on the sub I went to my old old low end Sony receiver's phono input. The receiver is so old that it has no remote and it has a slider control for the volume. I hooked up the Bass Shakers in series to only the left channel of the speaker out and it works perfectly at a volume level of only 3 on a 10 scale on the volume slider. I was worried that the receiver would be too underpowered for the bass shakers but they were fine.

I was thinking that I was going to have to buy a plate amp to power the shaker. So for those of you with old receivers, I think they will do just fine.

Bob

fuj32

06-17-09, 05:41 PM

Bfuke,

I also tried using the phono....I think this is why you only had to turn your volume up 3/10th of the way. It intensifies the affect!! However, do you think that you are getting extra shake where there shouldnt be, using the phono. I felt that there was additional shake were there shouldnt be when using phono. I barely have to turn my shaker amp up. Also, do you think this is okay, (safe).

Currently I am using another input other than phono and my shaker amp is turned up half way. Would it hurt to turn it past half way. I have some concern because I have heard that when pushing speakers, a receiver shouldnt be turned past half way b/c this is where distortion begins. However, shakers are a little different than ordinary speakers and the amp does not get as hot as it use to when I ran speakers with it.

Just trying to keep everything safe.

fuj32

miltimj

06-17-09, 06:21 PM

A phono input is a completely unique input that shouldn't be used for anything but phonographs. Though it will decrease the higher frequencies and be amplified more than a typical input, it still won't contain the correct LFE data from discrete surround audio tracks.

As for the "amp turned up past halfway is where distortion begins".. that's completely arbitrary (and incorrect). It depends on the power handling of the speakers, source material, amplifier power, preamp level, etc. You're probably not concerned as much with distortion (poor sound quality, which is much, much less noticeable with shakers than speakers) as you are with clipping, which can actually damage your amp. Many amps have clipping indicators - play your LFE scenes as loud as you would ever want them and see if the amp is clipping - if not, you're fine.

fuj32

06-17-09, 09:18 PM

J. L.

06-17-09, 10:03 PM

I understand all of this. And I am not getting LFE any way. I am running a a Denon 2 channel receiver as my main. I am using the ZONE 2 OUT with a 50hz fmod attached instead of the subout...considering I dont have a sub out. This works just fine. I set the volume on my shaker receiver and leave it (technics 70's model) and then use the zone 2 volume to control the shakers to my liking.

I know it isnt exactly correct to use the phono....however, is it safe if I would choose to use it this way (zone 2 OUT..going into the phono of the Technics. (the only reason I would like to do it this way is to keep the volume levels of the Zone 2 and the Techincs lower..as it makes me feel a little better. BUT if its not safe, then its a no go.

Also...if not...I will have to continue to set the Technics around half way or higher....How will I know when it is clipping.

Thanks
fuj32The phono input is designed to de-emphasize high frequencies and boost low frequencies. This is because low frequencies are recorded on records at lower amplitude to allow the grooves to be closer together... the high frequencies are recorded at higher levels... this allows for the reduction of high frequency noise (hiss, clicks, pops) when the level is de-emphasized in the phono input preamp.

The phono input is also designed with much more gain than the other inputs. That is because phono cartridges have much lower output than CD or Tape players.

For the small range of low frequencies fed to the phono input you have nothing to worry about. What is unknown is how the phono input deals with frequencies below 20Hz. Odds are very high it will continue to emphasize some frequencies below 20Hz. Odds are also good some form of rumble filter might be applied, to cut off frequencies below 10 Hz.

As already said, since you are not feeding a full range signal to the phono input I think you will only need to worry about clipping. (Feeding too high a level signal to the phono input is the real issue, but using fmods as filters I don't think that will be an issue.)

Have fun.

Joe L.

fuj32

06-17-09, 11:11 PM

Joe L,

Thanks for the education lesson. This was great. I never really knew the specifics about the phono input. And now I do. I appreciate the help. THANKS AGAIN

Justin

Bazzy

06-18-09, 10:08 PM

Hi All,

I am from the UK where most amps and av receivers are 8 ohms (I am a noob I am afraid so my technical prowess is quite limited). I plan on buying two Sonic Immersion I-Beam VT-300 transducers and placing them under a wooden double bed-frame. I really like the idea of having a remote control so I can control the intensity of the transducers without having to get up every time I need to adjust things or try different levels!

The VT-300's have a power requirement of 150-250 watts at 4 Ohms. I have no idea what that would mean for 8 Ohms but can I just buy a big Hi-Fi 2 channel/stereo Power Amp, Integrated stereo amp or AV Amp rated at around 200 watts per channel (Yamaha, Technics, Denon, Pioneer, Rotel etc from ebay) and just hook up each transducer to say the left and right speaker connections? Any amp I buy will send out power in 8 Ohms though so I do not know what problems that will cause.

I know some people use the Buttkicker BKA-1000/4A but that is a 1000 watts and I am scared that it might blow the transducers. The BKA-300 Amp seems ideal as it is 300 watts at 4 Ohms and also has an option for the AC 240 volts we use in the UK and a remote control but they only seem to be sold as part of a kit and not separately unless anyone else knows better, Even with this option, I would need two of them - can they be hooked together somehow so they operate as one or in unison? I would have to go to the trouble of importing them!

I will eventually be connecting everything to a main av amp like the Onkyo 607. I am way out of my depth here and could really do with some help!!

Many Thanks To All,

Bazzy!

bfuke

06-19-09, 08:02 PM

I didn't know what I was doing when I connected my Aura Bass Shakers to my Phono input and when I read the last few threads, I thought I would try to connect my subwoofer output line to my CD/Aux input on my old sony Receiver. Well, I did that and even when I cranked the volume to the very top I got nothing out of the bass shakers. Tried the tape input and had the same results. So I reconnected to the phono input and at 1/3 volume level the bass shakers work fine.

So, this ruins the old Sony receiver its no great loss. I will just keep it hooked up this way and see what happens.

Bob

brownwa

07-09-09, 09:32 AM

J. L.

07-09-09, 10:15 AM

Now I got 2 Woon Bass Shakers @ 2ohm each ... do I need at least two more of same or can I get just 1 more 4 ohm shaker & connect them is series to 3 chairs & get total 8 ohms on my Technic's reciever>??? Appreciate input :)You can do as you describe and get an 8 ohm load to the receiver... BUT.... the one 4 ohm shaker will get 1/2 of the power, the other two shakers will share the other half of the power (1/4 of the power to each)

If your goal is to have all three chairs shake the same amount, you will not be happy, even if your receiver is happy with the 8 ohm load.

Joe L.

grod777

07-18-09, 02:49 PM

Does anyone have any recommendations for an decent priced amp that can drive my 3-4 Aura Pro's and that can I can program my Logitech remote to turn it on? I am currently using and old Onkyo but I have a new Onkyo 705 and my problem is that when I press my activity button on my logitech remote it turns one receiver on but not the other. I guess they both use the same IR signal.

biggblukat

07-18-09, 11:30 PM

I just received 4 Aura 25W (the old style) off of an internet auction site last week.

Prior to getting these, my system has has consisted of a system driven by a 6.1 EX/ES capable Insignia receiver (bought for $75 used) and NHT 1.3a Fronts, and NHT Superzero's for front center/surrounds/rear center.

For bass, I've been using an old Pioneer VSX-D457 which has five discrete inputs and amplifiers, but not DD or DTS decoder. I'd had it hooked in stereo mode with a really old (1977) set of JBL L50 tower speakers with the sub output with a Y-connector. Sound OK, but have to really turn everything up to get any kick from the low end (something my wife doesn't like upstairs).

I'm using the Rear Right and Rear Left amplifiers of the Pioneer and another set of Y-adapters to amplify each set of bass shakers in series. Three in couch, and one in a recliner fastened with two drywall screws each. I can turn off the JBL's using the front speaker A/B/off controls when I only want to feel the bass shakers only, or can switch from 5.1 mode to stereo if I only want mid-bass for music.

The bass shakers are amazing!. I just rented Bluray of Live Free or Die Hard, I've see it 4 or 5 times before including once in a theatre, but if seemed like I'd heard it for the first time with the shakers.

I'd say you get get by easily with a 2x50W stereo amp with each set wired in series. My receiver is 5x100 and I do have to adjust the main(Pioneer) volume up and turn off the tower speakers if I want to listen at low levels late at night with the Insignia receivers turned low.

If you are looking to add a receiver dedicated for the shakers, any old used stereo from your local fleamarket or craigslist will do (assuming it works) if you are on an extreme budget. I'm just lucky as an early adapter of an obsolete 5.1 receiver from the mid 90's, I did not have to buy an extra one and had extra amplifier channels available.

I played the tunnel scene from the movie about five times already.:D

popalock

07-30-09, 05:19 AM

In hooking up, up to 4 shakers I have had great luck with the Monster Cable SS4 - 4 way selector. It regulates the correct impedance to each shaker and if a person in 1 of the chairs is not enjoying it you can turn that shaker off.
For $25 - $30 shipped it works great.

Your old URL here...

What do you mean by it "regulates the correct impedance to each shaker"?

How would this be possible?

How is your overall system setup?

I'm confused on how this will work and not change the ohm load? I understand the SS4 allows you to hook up each shaker to each of the of the "speaker selectors" but how do you feed the SS4 power from your amp/receiver?

If you hook up each 4ohm shaker to each of the 4 outputs on the SS4 selector what ohm load does that present and how would you maintain that ohm load if you were to start turning off various shakers?

Please elaborate on your successful set up.

Thanks.

J. L.

09-04-09, 07:34 PM

So I get home and setup the 6 of them in a way that should yield 8ohms. It works, but its really weakThere is no way to wire 6 shakers to get 8 ohms and to have them all shake evenly. Please show us how you connected them.

You can possibly get close to 8 ohms, but not with the power evenly divided... You get some barely shaking, and others overdriven...

Please show a drawing of how you wired 6 shakers to get "8 ohms"

Joe L.

miltimj

09-05-09, 12:08 AM

I suppose he could have used three channels, but that would be a bit unconventional.

Kimwyn

09-18-09, 10:05 AM

how would i set up 2 subwoofers if i only have a 7.1 channel receiver?

miltimj

09-18-09, 10:55 AM

Use an RCA splitter

sb1

09-19-09, 04:34 PM

I have an extra Rotel RB-1050 (70 watt X 2) lying around in a closet. Do I have any options to use it for shakers under a loveseat and a large sofa? Thanks.

miltimj

09-19-09, 07:20 PM

Probably 2 or 3 connected to each channel (for each location).

MikeWojcik

09-21-09, 07:42 PM

Looking for advice on connecting multiple buttkickers up. I will have 7 chairs each with a buttkicker - Buttkicker has a 1000 watt amp that can drive 104 units. So 2 amps will cover it.

My dilemna is how to connect them such that I can turn on only those that are occupied and want the effect. Buttkicker has a quick-connect switch that can be set from 1-4 but that is a pre-determined order (e.g. going from 4 to 3 turns off a specific chair. And no way to turn off "chair 2".

Has anyone found a product or connection setup that supports this ability?

Thanks
Mike

miltimj

09-21-09, 09:18 PM

I would think a multi-speaker selector with protection circuitry and enough power handling should work. Remember that each time you change the number of speakers that are active, the impedance changes. So be sure the amp can handle it, and that you know what range the selector will switch to. If it doesn't change the impedance, then I would think it must have a resistor that's just going to generate a lot of heat (in which case you might as well have them all on).

http://www.smartbuyspeakers.com/multiple_speakertech

Disclaimer: I haven't used these much.

sb1

09-23-09, 01:39 PM

Happytobehere200

09-23-09, 04:16 PM

Can anyone tell me just how much area one Shaker will give sufficient rumble to? I'm not looking for my eyeballs to pop out, just a nice shake to let you know they're there.

I have a love seat that's roughly 5ft wide, and a sofa that is about 10 ft wide. Any pointers on just how many I need? Thanks.

*By the way, as I posted a few posts above, I have a two channel Rotel amp rated at 70 watts per channel that I'll be using to power them.
Having spent a bunch of time in emails with the guys from Butt Kicker I've learned a few things. I'm no expert but what is key is location of the device AND most importantly the compression of the rubber issolators. If you use those on a hard floor 1 BK can do a lot with the right amp. On my sofa's I use two with a dedicated amp and issolators on all touch points. The floor is carpeted over concrete so that is some of thw worst to deal with and that combination is WAY more than enough to shake 4+ people on the couch without the amp even getting warm.

J. L.

09-23-09, 04:30 PM

Having spent a bunch of time in emails with the guys from Butt Kicker I've learned a few things. I'm no expert but what is key is location of the device AND most importantly the compression of the rubber issolators. If you use those on a hard floor 1 BK can do a lot with the right amp. On my sofa's I use two with a dedicated amp and issolators on all touch points. The floor is carpeted over concrete so that is some of thw worst to deal with and that combination is WAY more than enough to shake 4+ people on the couch without the amp even getting warm.A ButtKicker has a lot more "mass" than an Aura Shaker" One will shake a couch, especially if isolated from the floor. A Butt-Kicker is typically fed from 400 to over 1000 watts. One aura-shaker will not have anywhere near the same effect... it will burn up if fed more than 50-75 watts and be at excursion max at much over 25 watts near resonance. Apples and oranges.

sb1

09-23-09, 05:07 PM

^ Thanks, guys.

J.L. - That's why I wanted to try the Aura's first. I know the BK's are a more elaborate (and expensive) setup, and I don't even know for sure if I'll like the effect or not. An Aura or two would be nice to experiement with, I guess.

Another question: If I use the Rotel amp to power these, it won't have any type of gain control over them. Could I use the subwoofer trim level in the preamp to help with that, and use the subs own volume control to adjust the bass from it (the sub) if needed? I'm assuming I go Y out from preamp to sub and Rotel (the shaker amp)?

AudioIronHorse

09-23-09, 05:43 PM

Here's a quick question.

I have 4 aura pro's hooked up to an old MCS 3872 integrated amplifier that has a built in eq. There is one of these on ebay right now if you don't know what this thing looks like. I have the lowest frequency of the amp eq turned up a bit and the rest turned down. There is also a 50hz choke installed in line that limits the frequencies to the 50hz max.

This setup works really well, but is kind of ugly. I recently upgraded some of my yamaha receivers and have an extra one around. I've thought of replacing the MCS with one of my old Yamaha's, basically for cosmetic reasons to match what's in my rack.

Any thoughts as to whether this would perform better or worse than the MCS. I don't know the specs of the MCS, and have tried to look them up to no avail. I haven't had time to hook them up and try it for myself yet, but just thought I'd get a few opinions.
I know the Yamaha fr. response is 20-20K, but wonder what the response of the MCS would be. Maybe with the Aura's, it doesn't make a difference.

Let me know if you have any opinions on this.

Thanks!

sb1

09-24-09, 02:18 PM

John H

09-24-09, 07:01 PM

m4rk

09-25-09, 03:05 AM

Happytobehere200

09-25-09, 08:46 AM

A ButtKicker has a lot more "mass" than an Aura Shaker" One will shake a couch, especially if isolated from the floor. A Butt-Kicker is typically fed from 400 to over 1000 watts. One aura-shaker will not have anywhere near the same effect... it will burn up if fed more than 50-75 watts and be at excursion max at much over 25 watts near resonance. Apples and oranges.
Sorry. Didn't see that he had Aura's. Either wasn't looking carefully enough or didn't look back far enough.

Happytobehere200

09-25-09, 08:50 AM

I decided to just go with the Buttkicker LFE kit after all. The amps built in crossover and level adjustment is a big draw for me, as well as the reviews they've gotten. The problem is just finding one in stock anywhere.
Wise choice. Have you looked at the online suppliers on the BK web site. I did a lot of price comparing not even noticing those suppliers and in the end I think it would have been cheaper getting them through the BK online suppliers. If they are out their are usually a bunch on eBay that offer new, authorized product.

Invest in the isolators, they are worth it.

sb1

09-25-09, 09:59 AM

Wise choice. Have you looked at the online suppliers on the BK web site. I did a lot of price comparing not even noticing those suppliers and in the end I think it would have been cheaper getting them through the BK online suppliers. If they are out their are usually a bunch on eBay that offer new, authorized product.

Invest in the isolators, they are worth it.Yeah, I emailed a ton of places, and they are all out. Their site will say "In Stock", but when I try to confirm that, they say they're out. BK is out, as well. Everyone expects them in stock mid October.

AudioIronHorse

09-25-09, 11:29 AM

Thanks John H! I think I finally found the same specs from Audiokarma. That amp may look dated, but it sure works well with the aura's. Think I should just keep it the way it is.
Thanks much for your input!

Jeff Smith

10-03-09, 12:56 PM

I'm building a DIY day-bed like lounging platform to be placed behind 4 Berklines. It will sit just high enough so we can see over the Berklines while laying down.

The wife wanted a place to snuggle with the kids, etc., and I thought I could make it a real focal point. I also wouldn't mind just lounging and not sitting.

I have built 2 actual bed mattresses myself with both memory foam and latex foam, and the project would be a XL twin sized mattress (39x80") on the plush side so you sink in yet get support. Sort of like a soft but well made couch. Building the platform for a bed like this is usually good quality plywood with 2x4 bracing, but I want to build it so it also makes it as ideal as possible for 1-2 BK LFEs.

I know it needs isolators, but which ones are needed? BK sells smaller ones for chairs and couches, and bigger more expensive ones for platforms.

I also could use advice on the build of the actual platform. The principles are the same as a riser platform, but the scale is just the size of a large sofa, and the weight is even less than a good sofa. I think if I brace it well enough, a single LFE would work, but would go with 2 if needed.

The platform would sit about 21-24" high, the floor below is carpet over concrete (someone above mentioned that is bad...why?). I would probable use 4x4s as legs, and put the big isolators 1 under each. An engineer at BK said it would be better to place the isolators between the flat platform and the legs at the top, not the floor, but this would require bracing the 4 legs together at the top (I guess with 2x4s) and having the platform made as a second 2x4 braced plywood section "floating" on top of that seperated by isolators.

I haven't found a cheaper amp for the money and power than the actual BK amp, but hate to buy one just for 1 LFE ($250 through Roman), but all the cheaper amps have very shakey reliability (ie Pyle Pro) or much less power (ie Dayton plate amps) and save me $100 at most (Dayton has 1/4 the power to save $100).

The way BK prices things, I can get an amp, LFE, Foot plate, and a ton of the smaller isolators for only $375 from Roman. Basically I spend $125 more than an amp (which I need anyway) and can now use 2 LFEs on the bed. If I can used the isolators that come with the kit (smaller BK ones, but could use twice as many), then that makes the best sense money wise.

I forgot to mention, I am buying one of the amp-LFE kits anyway to use as my amp for the 4 Berklines that Roman has mounted BKs in, and was going to use the LFE in the kit for the bed...so my choice was spend $100 (cheaper amp) or $250 (BK amp) and buy the isolators seperately, or spend $375 and get the BK amp, 2 LFEs and for the bed. This only makes the best economic sense if I can use the isolators with the kit and don't have to spend $60 on larger BK isolators.

The mattress itself would be about 10" thick, all foam, the top several inches are memory foam...and I figure this would absorb some of the LFE effect yet would also spread the effect out more evenly across the bed.

OK, thats a lot of brainstorming, but the questions are:

1 or 2 LFEs?

Which amp?

Which isolators?

Any suggested threads you can point me towards re: building a "small" platform?

John H

10-03-09, 04:43 PM

Jeff Smith

10-03-09, 10:13 PM

I thought that about the mattress absorbing energy (I kept thinking of the ads where they drop a bowling ball next to a full wine glass). This will also be an emergency "guest bed", so it has to be comfortable, but I think of how much fun it is to just all sit in the bed and watch the 12" TV, that I think I can make the experience a good one. That includes decor, viewing, audio, etc.

CINERAMAX POSTED A THREAD ON THE $20k+ forum about a rich guy in Miami and his setup he did for him (totally diff price range obviously) but on a less expensive scale, I think I can make the "lounger" itself a showpiece in the room that makes more sense than a 2nd row of seats (at least in my den).

That pretty much settles it then. 2 LFEs with the BK amp would be hooked in parallel running 1900 watts, stable at 2 ohms. This should give enough shake to be worth it. I can't imagine the bed would absorb that much more than a high end cushy sofa like I now have. I wouldn't have a box springs, and I still haven't bought the foam yet, so I can "adjust" the softness, thickness, etc.

BTW, since I am a fanatic DIYer, just what material and characteristics make up a good kinetic isolator anyway? I dont need them to have screws, etc, I would think just solid blocks of material would do as well...or am I misguided? Also, any words of wisdom on the materials used in the platform? Do I want heavy or light, stiff or some flex, etc. I thought originally of 3/4" plywood with 2x4 bracing, but would thicker (or thinner) plywood be better? Also, I could brace with angle iron rather than 2x4s.

How thick was your mem foam mattress? I like plush and cushy better than most people, which would allow more sink, which I assume would allow better transmission. Maybe firm would be better.

I cant would think 2 LFEs would be well felt since the weight or mass is so much less than a platform with HT seats on it.

John H

10-04-09, 12:26 AM

Jeff,

My mattress was an original Tempur-Pedic Swedish Mattress.™ (http://www.tempurpedic.com/mattresses/tempur/the_originalbed_by_tempur_pedic) It was fairly thin. It takes some time to get use to a memory foam type of mattress. They are quite stiff. Have you ever laid on one?
It replaced a Kingsdown coil-less solid foam mattress also I tested out. My first mattress was inner coil.

3/4" plywood should work well. I used a 2' x 4' x 3/4" platform under each of my bed frames legs. Two Buttkickers on each. Each fitted with 4
Kinetic Noise RDB-120 Isolators. One on each corner. Of course my setup was much heavier.

The Kinetics isolator is constructed of metal and neoprene. You want to choose one that doesn't fully compress when loaded with maximum weight. To stiff is bad as well.

The information in the links below are guide lines.

You want your bed to "slightly" move up and down when you rock back and forth in it.

How to Determine How Many Isolators You Will Need (http://thebuttkicker.com/support/faq.htm#Rubberisolators)

Isolators come in different weight capacities.

All isolators are designed to be partially compressed in application and therefore, numerous models are made with varying weight specifications. This specification (, RDB-120, RDB-220 RDB-375)indicates the amount of weight (in lbs.) that each isolator is designed to support (per isolator) for greatest efficiency.

Calculate the total weight to be carried by the isolator, including platform, chairs and people. Divide this weight by the total number of isolator feet to be used (i.e. a minimum of 3, a usual number of 4, more when necessary). This will give you the weight per isolator. Pick the isolator model closest to your calculated weight.

Considerations for Home Theater Risers & Platforms (http://thebuttkicker.com/support/faq.htm#platforms)

Many home theaters have more than one row of seats, with the second and third rows being built upon risers. These risers, for ButtKicker transducer applications, have two purposes; raise and support the seats and occupants, and allow vertical platform and seat movement.

Height for the ButtKicker brand transducer:

ButtKicker brand transducers can be mounted above or below the top surface of the riser. If above, consider people traffic, furniture placement. If under the surface, some simple framing can be done to avoid the extra room needed under the riser. As always, keep in mind any maintenance that may become necessary.

Think "suspension."

In essence, you're constructing a floor above the room's floor. Build the riser similar to a suspended wood joist floor to give the riser its greatest low frequency response.

The major differences between a riser and real floors are the suspension points and tie points (to other external structure). The riser should be free floating (not tied into any adjacent walls), and suspended by short sides only. Use vibration isolators on the short dimension to support the riser from the room floor. Some customers have even used coiled automobile springs for suspension with great results.

The greatest flex of the riser will be along its long dimension, the riser's short dimension will offer much less low frequency flexibility. Therefore, when possible, avoid any support along the long dimension.

Contact Marvin Clamme at THE GUITAMMER COMPANY INC. Contact Information (http://thebuttkicker.com/contact_us/index.htm)

marvin@guitammer.com

I have worked with him on and off for the last 10 years. Tell him John that used to drive his bed with 4 original Buttkickers in his bedroom based HT said hi! ;)

The Bedroom Theater (http://www.geocities.com/glassonion88)

John

Jeff Smith

10-04-09, 12:23 PM

Thanks BTW to the others here who let us temporarily hijack the thread...but I figure the principles apply in all cases.

...boy am I glad I asked here, John. I read all the BK site stuff, and have a little better idea what to do. I get the idea they want you to have some flex. I wonder if I should just brace the edges? At 39x80", the 2x4s would only be 36" apart going down the long dimension, I think this may be enough support for the weight of the foam and 300lbs of people (prob the max, 2 adults or 1 adult 2 kids). This would allow the entire center of the plywood to flex, and 2 LFEs could be mounted directly to the plywood at the 1/3 and 2/3 points. If it has too much "sag" I could add another 2x4, either long ways, or crossways at the 1/2 way point between the BKs, still allowing longitudinal flex. Either that or maybe just use 1" plywood to start with.

My bed isn't Tempurpedic. Yes they are heavy and firm. I buy the foam online. T-Pedic uses a proprietary foam that only they sell. I want cushier, I'm not as worried about the orthopedic benefits, I want "creature comfort". I can order varying thicknesses, and my prime concern here is the "HT lounge", not an actual bed. Heck, I've crashed on the couch before, and its fine in a pinch for sleeping. My couch is a high end brand (can't even remember who now) but is very cushy. We sink way in, and when I had Clark Synthesis transducers years age when they first came out, I could feel the effect (they since died of neglect).

I spoke with someone at BK, and they did enjoy helping me. I think he enjoyed the novelty of the idea. I will ask for your guy. I need to call back anyway.

I wonder why I cant just place the isolators under the 4x4 legs over the carpet-on-concrete floor? It would simplify the bed construction to just the plywood, edge bracing of 2x4, and 4x4 legs just inside the 2x4s (maybe 2x6s if I just do the edges) at the corners. They would only be 2' tall, and I dont see how that would make much difference in the flex. The BK guy wanted me to isolate at the top of the legs.

As to isolators, I wonder how well the chair ones do? That's what they mainly sell, and a high end HT chair prob weighs as much as my project will. They come with the BK amp and LFE kit. Actually, the kit also has a plate mount that can fit under a leg of the furniture, but I think he said better results came from mounting to the bed itself.

I even thought of just getting a cheap coil spring mattress and putting a cushy foam topper on that instead of all foam. Still brainstorming.

eiger

10-05-09, 03:09 PM

eiger

10-05-09, 06:34 PM

anyone?

m4rk

10-06-09, 09:21 AM

I do not have a BK but I think the basics are the same.

I bolted my Earthquake Q10B directly to the sofa frame inside using a L shaped metal braket of substantial thickness. Its a discrete secret weapon with no obvious outward signs of anything special about the sofa :) Connection is just a simple y split from sub preout to the Q10 amp. In your case that will be to the wireless sender. I recommend using rubber isolation feet on the sofa. They help by allowing the sofa to vibrate more easilly.

If you were worried that one may not be enough maybe you should have got the more powerful BK. You can always turn the gain down. One Q10B is powerful enough for my 3 seat sofa.

If the sub and shaker are very far apart then you may notice the shaker hit is out of sync witht the sub hit. I use the phase delay on my Earthquake amp to compensate for this. About 3ms per meter(yard)

sb1

10-07-09, 02:08 PM

Just got the BK LFE kit hooked up to my sofa. Man...what a difference it makes. Very fun.

Fosil

10-08-09, 09:19 AM

Because of the weight of these things I'm limited in options (I live in South America, shipping weight from USA is killer).
So, I want to use the transducer/s in a 3 person sofa (not a heavy one), my options are, also in costs order:

1_ 1 Buttkicker Advanced (BK300)kit (about 50% de mass of the lfe)
2_ 1 Buttkicker LFE
3_ 3x Buttkicker minis

Any advice would be great.

Thanks!

m4rk

10-08-09, 10:47 AM

How about 1xEarthquake Q10B or maybe mulitple miniquakes.....I'd go for the Q10B but then I have one already.

Shipment from UK?.... pound is weak at the mo so maybe it works out cheaper.

See here:

Shaker Centre UK (http://www.shakercentre.co.uk/aspbite/categories/index.asp?intCatID=17&content=home_cinema)

Fosil

10-08-09, 12:25 PM

Thanks for the link, but not cheaper than USA for me.

What about the shaking power of 3 minis vs 1 LFE?

eiger

10-10-09, 01:28 AM

Hi All,

I'm new to the realm of buttkickers and transduscers, but thought I would give folks some background.

Bought a BKA-300 from Amazon which is the wireless 300W into 4Ohm Kit that comes with a power amp, RF receiver etc. I'm super excited. Got this one because the more powerful one was a little too intense for me after getting a demo at a friend's house.

My setup consists of

26 x 16 room.
Klipsch Icons.
Klipsch 350W Bash Sub 10
Onkyo 605 90W 7.1 Receiver.

Just hooked up some speakers in the back so soon I'll be utilizing all 7 channels. My Sub is currently connected to the Sub out on the receiver. Seating area is a sectional couch. Sub is on right side of couch behind seating area. Given my room size, I may be experiencing the limitation of what this sub is capable of, but that is another story.

Should the buttkicker be a fairly easy hook up given the above setup?
Should the one shaker be enough for the couch? I've attatched pics for reference.
Anyone have suggestions on where I put the shaker? Placement of sub and shaker?

OK. I'm having some problems. HELP! I've hooked up my BK-KIT-4.

The Buttkicker should work with a receiver and a sub correct?

If yes, I can't for the life of my figure out what my problem is. Here is what I did.

-Install Shaker underneath couch.
-Run Speaker Wire from shaker to Speaker Out AMP terminals
-Installed IR Adapter in Buttkicker Amp.
-Installed Transmitter at AV/Rack.

Transmitter has a Left In and a Right in. Not sure which one I was supposed to use. So using Right.

I have the RCA going from the transmitter to the Y Cable. Y Cable has RCA Sub Connection and the other going to the receiver Sub out.

What am I doing wrong? I'm not getting any LFE from the shaker. The Green light is turned on at the Amp. Tried using remote to increase volume, no luck.