Luchan, can the output resolution be changed from the remote, or only the front panel? If it can be changed from the remote, there is one possible silver lining: remote macros for a machine lacking discrete remote codes can sometimes be easier to program when you can bring the machine to a known state (e.g.., a certain sequence of button presses will always bring it to 720p). On the other hand, I agree with you that it's much better to set the resolution and forget it.

Originally posted by Grampa
Luchan, can the output resolution be changed from the remote, or only the front panel? If it can be changed from the remote, there is one possible silver lining: remote macros for a machine lacking discrete remote codes can sometimes be easier to program when you can bring the machine to a known state (e.g.., a certain sequence of button presses will always bring it to 720p). On the other hand, I agree with you that it's much better to set the resolution and forget it.

No, it can not be changed from the remote. It really bothers me. If I have to turn the TV/Projector on/off five times a day, I will have to push the buttons on the 3510A's front panel 50 times to get the resolution back to 720p. I had to cycle through all the available modes to get to the 720p.

Originally posted by vksf01
uh oh....

just checked the J and R site and the LST-3510A is listed as out of stock! i hope i got my order in on time :confused:

I ordered on friday, over the phone and there was no mention of it being out of stock. I called today to check on the status because it was still "processing" and I was told it was out of stock. The rep said JR had 31 pending orders and was expecting 24 units in 7-10 business days. I ask where I was in the queue and she had no idea. I cancelled my order and paid a little more at ****************.

Originally posted by vksf01
which store? i see you're in palo alto. i'm in sf myself.
LaserLand Home Theater
6:00 to 9:00 PM Thursday the 11th. I would call Thursday to be sure. It was announced in their glossy Holiday mailing.

1080 S. De Anza Blvd.
(408) 253-3733

If you come either 101 or 280 take 85 south and get off at De Anza. Go left on De Anza. LaserLand not far on the right side of De Anza. It's building is vertical to De Anza so it's easy to miss the sign. There is a Thai restaurant between them and the street.

You can also take 280 all the way to De Anza. You would be coming from the opposite direction on De Anza then and Laserland would be on the left. Their sign is harder to see from 280.

thanks!

Bump.

So VGA/RGB connection does not work with DVD's? That is really disappointing. I was hoping to connect this machine directly to InFocus X1 via VGA without using converters.

dozens, i got it for $420 delivered. i think you should wait for j&r. Its a cheaper. $180 cheaper

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
dozens, i got it for $420 delivered. i think you should wait for j&r. Its a cheaper. $180 cheaper

Fantastic deal! What is your out of the box first impression?

Tired of searching through this thread!

Question:

Can the LG adjust aspect ratio for DVDs for output via DVI so that the display can stay set up in a constant 16x9 mode and the LG player can "fit" 4x3 encoded discs into the frame properly? This includes two options primarily: 1. pillarboxing 4x3 full-frame material in the 16x9 frame *AND* 2. zooming 4x3 lbxed material so it fill the full 16x9 width without image distortion.

The Bravo can do this, but supposedly the Dennon and Samsung cannot. Can the LG?????

-dave

David, yes it can do both. There is a RATIO button on the remote that scrolls through choices like "SET BY PROGRAM, NORMAL, WIDE, ZOOM1, ZOOM2, and CINEMA ZOOM (with 16 levels of zoom to pick from - #10 or #11 makes a 4:3 image fill the 16:9 screen). This feature is on page 25 of the user manual that you can download from this link :

http://us.lge.com/products/models/LST-3510A.html

Ken

Cool.

by any chance...can it zoom a 4x3 lbxed 1.66:1 program so that no additional vertical cropping is applied...which some small pillarboxing bars on the left/right properly centering the 1.66:1 image area in the 16x9 frame?

If it can do *that*, it would practically be perfect.

Oh...can it do these same aspect ratio adjustments via component as well as DVI output???

OK now i have my report on the 3510a on my Sony 34XBR800.


First the PQ of the DTV:

Awesome...... very nice. I also own a Zenith 520 and it looks the same but still great.

Second, the reception of the DTV:

Great, its true that you can get more channels then the 520. I got 2 more channels added and a centimeter more reception of PBS(13-1 in the new york area)

Third, DVD pq-720p

I looks great. Better then the hd931(which i owned before). Connected only through DVI and Coaxial Cable. Nothing else. Saw Star Wars Episode 2 and the Two Towers and they both looked excellent.


Overall, Impressive piece even for a Direct-View tv like mine. 34xbr800 handled it like a champ. I recommend it.

Do you have the DVI resolution reset problem with your 34xbr800?

I'm thinking about one of these for a 32HS510.

Thanks,
Jason

What kind of pause is there on layer changes with the DVD player portion of the 3510A?

Originally posted by jlindahl
Do you have the DVI resolution reset problem with your 34xbr800?

I'm thinking about one of these for a 32HS510.

Thanks,
Jason


No. I turned it off a couple of times and turned back on and it was still 720p.


One thing i am questioning is this:

In the manuel, it says it resets to 480p even though it is selected to 1080i.


Does this mean if it says 1080i, i am actually looking at 480p???

I too have the Sony 34XBR800. I have used the Bravo D1 connected via the DVI and I can't see a big difference PQ wise (on either 720p or 1080i) vs. Panasonic RP91 connected via component. Do you think LG will be better than Bravo when connected to the Sony? Have you tried using the component in of the LG ? And my last question is I have Comcast Digital cable. I have read the entire thread but I am still not clear whether I can get ALL the digital channels using the LG. TIA.

I think a Sony 34xbr800 wouldn't benifit as much as any Samsung DLP for instance.

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
In the manuel, it says it resets to 480p even though it is selected to 1080i.

Does this mean if it says 1080i, i am actually looking at 480p??? According to an earlier post, yes it could mean that. Note however that the manual is referring to outputting a copy protected DVD over RGB or component. This would not apply to DVI, where all resolutions are available (except 480i, I think).

As for picture quality over component compared to DVI, I saw a very definite difference between the Bravo D1 using DVI and my old Samsung DVD-V1000 using component (both inexpensive players). I had to look a bit, but on the Samsung, straight lines would "ripple" when the camera panned across the screen, and on the Bravo the picture is solid as a rock. There are other differences as well. I'm sure component improves when using a high end player, but I'm sold on the DVI connection.

Originally posted by htwaits
I think a Sony 34xbr800 wouldn't benifit as much as any Samsung DLP for instance.

You maybe right but it was a big step from the hd931... Big difference.


i used 2 fast and 2 furious on the hd931, all i got was a mediocre picture with alot of snow.....

the 3510a however, clear, beautiful colors. Even Star Wars Episode 2 was great. Fellowship of the ring- Gandalfs face looked very detailed(when he fought the fire demon).

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
You maybe right but it was a big step from the hd931... Big difference.

i used 2 fast and 2 furious on the hd931, all i got was a mediocre picture with alot of snow.....

Samsung did a firmware fix for some "snow" problem and 1080i that was talked about in the Bravo vs HD931 thread. I don't know if thats what you ran into.

There is also a black & white crush problem the HD-931 has due to using a PC Color Space (1 - 255) instead of the Video Color Space (16-235).

I had the firmware fix cd...... fixed the 1080i problem but didnt help the pq much

I also got it for 420 delivered from JandR.


I originally ordered it for 499 and then I called them and demanded 420 or order cancellation... They said, "We have no proof of that 420..We can't do that." The best we can do is 479. Then I said cancel. She went away and then came back with 449. I told her.. "No, I strongly believe this individual at the forum I go to is not lying..No one's going to lie on a professional forum about a price.." So she went back to manager and he said Ok to 420.

Helpful place JandR is but that is kinda ridiculous. You may have to fight with them for 420.. I know I had to.

Geff3, the 3510A will not tune in all your Comcast Digital cable channels - I tried it. It may tune in any unscrambled HD content Comcast broadcasts in your area but you should really be buying this box for OTA HD + DVD as it only has one COAX input.

Ken

Originally posted by htwaits
LaserLand Home Theater
6:00 to 9:00 PM Thursday the 11th. I would call Thursday to be sure. It was announced in their glossy Holiday mailing.

1080 S. De Anza Blvd.
(408) 253-3733

If you come either 101 or 280 take 85 south and get off at De Anza. Go left on De Anza. LaserLand not far on the right side of De Anza. It's building is vertical to De Anza so it's easy to miss the sign. There is a Thai restaurant between them and the street.

You can also take 280 all the way to De Anza. You would be coming from the opposite direction on De Anza then and Laserland would be on the left. Their sign is harder to see from 280.
I called Laserland today and they do have the LG RU-xxSZ30 connected to the LST-3510A for tonight LG presentation.

O.K. Here are some initial impressions.

No operational issues other than the player and my GWIII have trouble
sync-ing with DVI when switching through the resolutions. It seems like it's
more of a problem when there isn't a source playing. Once the sync is made, it stays.

I don't have the "reset bug". When I turn the player and/or the tv off it
stays at the resolution it was initially set to when powered back up.

No problems with Disney DVD's but high rez only avail. via DVI.

Picture is excellent and I've found I prefer 480p via DVI overall. With the higher res. I notice some distortion in very dark backgrounds. The beginning of Star Trek Insurrection was where I noticed this. I believe this
has been referred to as macroblocking and also happens with the Denon
5900. You really have to look for it in 480p but it's pretty visible via 720p
or 1080i. This may have to do with double-scaling and may not happen with monitors with pixel perfect at 720p.

I've noticed I have to adjust my black level higher on AVIA. I've made adjustments through the SM of my set to compensate. On THX optimizer
I can't see the back-shadow via DVI but can via component. Does this mean the player won't "pass pluge" via its DVI out? The THX instructions
mention that some players will behave this way.

Anyway, the picture is great and it seems to be a reliable player (at least
initially) so I think it's a keeper.

Charles

Raven,


i too have a 34XBR800. I'm curious to why you view it on 720p because the 34XBR800 converts 720p to 1080i. Did you try using both signals? From what i've read here on AVS, you should technically get a slighly better picture using native 1080i because it one less conversion.

If anyone has more knowledge on this, please post. thanks.

Also does the 3510a pass PLUGE?

This is what i was going to ask as well.....

If i put it on native resolution, wont it convert the pic format to 480p or will it put it to 1080i?

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
This is what i was going to ask as well.....

If i put it on native resolution, wont it convert the pic format to 480p or will it put it to 1080i?
The 3510 is supposed to output either 720p or 1080i using DVI. If you are using component it's supposed to down res copy protected material to 480p. At least that's what I think it's supposed to do.

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
This is what i was going to ask as well.....

If i put it on native resolution, wont it convert the pic format to 480p or will it put it to 1080i?

If you put it on native resolution it will output 480p over DVI because the native resolution of the dvd is 480. Technically you are better off just having it set to 1080i and let the lg scale everything for you.
Take care,
justin

Originally posted by jjp927
If you put it on native resolution it will output 480p over DVI because the native resolution of the dvd is 480. Technically you are better off just having it set to 1080i and let the lg scale everything for you.
Take care,
justin
Unless your TV has a native resolution of 720p then that should be the output of the 3510 for the same reason.

I took my collection of "test" DVDs to try the LST-3510A connected to the LG RU-52SZ30 Thursday night. The details are posted here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=336996)

I was assured they were connected via DVI and that the 3510 was outputing 720p. I've done the same group of scenes with the new 50" Optoma DLP. In some areas the 52SZ seemed as good or a little better.

That was not the case for "Finding Nemo". The banding in the first scene when the view is out into open water was pronounced. Instead of shafts of sun light shining down through moving water it looked more like layer upon layer of chaos. The shark/minefield and the Abyss also had bad banding.

At this point I have no idea if it was the TV, the setup, or the 3510 doing a drop to 480p. I assumed it was the TV which disappointed me because I wanted to add it to our list of one that I can get good WAF for.

Any thoughts about this being a Disney problem?

Finding Nemo has lots of banding...it's the DVD compression and not the fault of the display.

Read my review here:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?threadid=166494

It is the settings of the display. Finding Nemo looks almost perfect on my Z2. The Z2-3510A combination gives a threater picture quality experience.

Originally posted by DaViD Boulet
Finding Nemo has lots of banding...it's the DVD compression and not the fault of the display.

Read my review here:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?threadid=166494
I also checked the same scenes on a high end Panasonic DVD player connected to a 50" Fujitsu plasma and there was no banding that I could see.

Originally posted by Luchan
It is the settings of the display. Finding Nemo looks almost perfect on my Z2. The Z2-3510A combination gives a threater picture quality experience.
What display is the Z2? See my previous message for my reference test that looked outstanding as well.

I'm going to try some other combinations next week that should cast some light on Nemo. :)

I'll go out on a limb and say that many systems, as good as they are, may actually mask some of the banding on the Nemo disc. I've had so many folks with reference systems comment on the banding issues (and seen them myself on at least three high-end calibrated setups) that I'm very comfortable assuring folks that the disc does indeed have some banding issues that are compression related.

How those banding issues end up looking on the display is another matter, and some systems may indeed go a long way to "smoothing" out the transitions.

Could be. I've never seen an ISF Calibratreted set.

Quick question. Does anyone know if the this player passes the "blacker thank black signal" or at least have the option to do so. Thinking about getting this but want to make sure it has this ability.

Related to that, Does it let you switch between the PC and VIDEO setting for DVI black-level?

Some projectors lock in one or the other mode when displaying DVI and not having the ability to compensate at the DVI player level means you have to recalibrate everything on the projector to get proper contrast. Being able to tell the DVD player which type of protocol to use would make it MUCH easier to get a good image without having to get into the world of gamma adjustments on the display...

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
What MAY be causing initial problems w/Disney discs on the 3510A is that they have coding, in addition to CSS, which prevents its DVDs from being played on Region Free players. Those with Region Free players have to reset the Player to Region 1 to watch Disney DVDs.

Perhaps this extra protection in Disney DVDs causes the 3510A to initially say 480p only over DVI until the 3510A and display device complete the DVI handshake. This brings me to the question: Can the DVD player be made to be region free? I assume it's Region 1. A related question: Can the DVD loader be swapped out, say with one that can be flashed region free?

Dan

Ok my 9 meter Better Cables DVI cable shows sparklies and artifacts on 720p and 1080i... Absolutely useless.

Does anyone know a high quality DVI connection that is around 8 meters or so? How the hell is BetterCables bad??? It is so expensive.

Can you get a refund for the "Worse" Cable?

I thought DVI cables basically either worked or didn't. Sparklies!?! Hmm. I just ordered the 3510A and guess I will sell my Momitsu. All my DVI cables are DVI-I (6, 10 and 15 feet). Can't I just break off the 4 extra pins on both ends of one of these and use it as a DVI-D cable? They are cheap but seem to work OK (pccables.com). JandR wanted to sell me a DVI cable for over $100 and I declined.

Originally posted by htwaits
What display is the Z2? This is the new Sanyo PLV-Z2. Excellent (positive) review at www.projectorcentral.com

No just because it's digitial does not mean it helps in this situation...

DVI is not officially supposed be used with cable lengths like 9 meters and it seems to be risky .. Sparklies seem to be a common problem when using a cable run too long..


My problem is the fact that Better Cables is considered very high end and highly regarded and they guarantee there cables... Well as far as I can see, 720p and 1080i signals aren't getting there nicely... Looks like I have to return it. What scares me is if other DVI cables could possibly work!.. If BetterCables 9m run was not effective, then I wonder if those cheaper 80 dollars runs would work well.

You can go with an optical DVI cable that basically has infinite length potential. A little pricier, but you're pretty much future-proofed as DVI looks like it will be with us for a while.

-dave :)

I got my 3510A in today. Th ATSC tuner was completely dead. It initially output DVI, then stopped. (Says EZ DVI, so it is shaking hands w/my display device). And it won't hold res. settings on DTV or after powering down. I guess it's defective.

I got a 50 foot DVI cable from Ram (AVS Sponsor) and it works great. I think it cost around $150.

HTCrazy, are you using the Z2 and 3510A?


I only need 7.5 feet, but I know that different DVI cables have different results with different equipment... I just want one that works.

Originally posted by Luchan
It is the settings of the display. Finding Nemo looks almost perfect on my Z2. The Z2-3510A combination gives a threater picture quality experience. Luchan, can you tell us exactly what DVI cable you are using? Thanks.

Robert, sorry to hear it. The dead tuner sounds like a new failure mode.

Ken

Originally posted by Muse
Luchan, can you tell us exactly what DVI cable you are using? Thanks.

Here is the DVI cable I use.

ht tp: // cgi. ebay. com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2772556274&category=3697

This is the only FCC compliant DVI cable I can find in the market (not the $100 Monster ones). To assure continued FCC compliance, the user must use a shielded DVI cable with bonded ferrite cores at both ends.

Originally posted by kenhdtv
Robert at **************** got me on the phone with the LG Product Mgr yesterday to discuss the DVI reset issue. I should get some feedback by the end of the week so don't give up yet.

Since it's obviously firmware controlled, it seems like a firmware update could either fix the bug or allow you to disable their "EZDVI" feature via a User Menu option.
Ken, I escalated your issue again with LG and expect to have some solutions very soon.

-Robert

I am not sure if this will help. When I received the new 3510A, the first DVD I played used component video output. I know most DVD players will write something to the eprom chip on the first DVD. Switch to DVI after you have played a few DVDs using the component.

Originally posted by Luchan
I am not sure if this will help. When I received the new 3510A, the first DVD I played used component video output. I know most DVD players will write something to the eprom chip on the first DVD. Switch to DVI after you have played a few DVDs using the component. I will definitely follow that sequence, Luchan. I am also ordering the same cable you use and will keep my fingers crossed. :p Thanks.

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
Ken, I escalated your issue again with LG and expect to have some solutions very soon.

-Robert
Our two LG dealers are not talking on this issue. Maybe you can shed some light.

I was able to view several scenes from a group of DVDs on a LST-3510A connected via DVI outputting 720p. The display unit was the LG RU-52SZ30. The TV seemed to do alright with everything except "Finding Nemo". There was serious banding in the opening "open water" shots, in the "mine field", and in the Abyss when they were enchanted by the light.

I've not had a chance to try the LST-3510A with comparable setups and other display devices. I wouldn't expect the banding to be caused by the LST-3510A. There may be some banding in the source but if there is, higher end setups don't show it.

What's curious is that DVI input at 720p helped eliminate banding on Samsung DLP sets.

Any thoughts about the RU-55SZ30?

Originally posted by Muse
I will definitely follow that sequence, Luchan. I am also ordering the same cable you use and will keep my fingers crossed. :p Thanks.

I had no DVI cable connected when I played the first 2-3 DVDs via the component. The 3510A must write region code info to the eprom chip on the first DVD I played. I was able to output 720p/1080i via the component on the first two DVDs (original LOR Special Edition and Disney Toy Story 2). Does the 3510A have different HDCP implementations for different countries? If the first DVD is a copied movie (e.g. region free DVD+/-R), does the 3510A disable the HDCP permanently? Maybe this is why someone can play 720p/1080i via the component and RGB while others can't. I don't know. This is my theory.

I've seen banding on the 52" LG on Discovery HD (DirecTV) while the 60" did not have any banding on the same channel (Bright House Networks cable). I think it is just a difference in the way they are adjusted. I have not yet had a chance to look at them more closely to see what the difference is.

Robert

Originally posted by robert123
I've seen banding on the 52" LG on Discovery HD (DirecTV) while the 60" did not have any banding on the same channel (Bright House Networks cable). I think it is just a difference in the way they are adjusted. I have not yet had a chance to look at them more closely to see what the difference is.

Robert
One of the dealers in our area is supposed to have an in-house ISF calibrator. I'll see if I can talk them into calibrating the 52" LG.

Luchan-

HDCP is exclusive to Region 1. Incidentally, I initially got the LG splash screen and could navigate the player's menu on DVD/DVI, but then nothing; no splash screen...just "Searching for Signal" from the InFocus 7200. I never tried a DVD.
In any case, the ATSC tuner is definitely dead.
Bob

Perhaps one of you can please clear this up for me...

Will using either DVI and/or Component natively allow 1080i on copy protected DVD discs?

If not, what must I do to achieve 1080i on copy protected DVD discs?

I am in the States if that makes a difference.

Thanks ;)

Originally posted by Luchan
I had no DVI cable connected when I played the first 2-3 DVDs via the component. The 3510A must write region code info to the eprom chip on the first DVD I played. I was able to output 720p/1080i via the component on the first two DVDs (original LOR Special Edition and Disney Toy Story 2). Does the 3510A have different HDCP implementations for different countries? If the first DVD is a copied movie (e.g. region free DVD+/-R), does the 3510A disable the HDCP permanently? Maybe this is why someone can play 720p/1080i via the component and RGB while others can't. I don't know. This is my theory. The first disk you played - was it a DVD-R copy or was it original? What region was it? I doubt I have any disks that are not Region 1. I also don't yet have a DVD burner (but, of course, I could get one).

"If the first DVD is a copied movie (e.g. region free DVD+/-R), does the 3510A disable the HDCP permanently?" - intriguing idea. That would be doubtful, but who knows? Possible, yes.

I have Toy Story 2 and LOTR FOTR, and LOTR FOTR EE and TT EE are on order. I expect TT EE any day now! :p Both Region 1. Hmm. I wonder if it might not be possible to work around the Z2/3510A DVI-D handshake issue by either flashing the loader region free or swapping out the loader with a region free loader the way people do with the Momitsu V880. If HDCP is Region 1 specific, perhaps using a region free loader will prevent the problem.

Luchan, have you used any Region 1 disks?

Originally posted by babutiger
Will using either DVI and/or Component natively allow 1080i on copy protected DVD discs?

The LST-3510A will output 1080i and 720p via digital DVI to a qualified display device. It will not do the same thing with analog component output.

Originally posted by Muse
The first disk you played - was it a DVD-R copy or was it original? What region was it? I doubt I have any disks that are not Region 1. I also don't yet have a DVD burner (but, of course, I could get one).

"If the first DVD is a copied movie (e.g. region free DVD+/-R), does the 3510A disable the HDCP permanently?" - intriguing idea. That would be doubtful, but who knows? Possible, yes.

I have Toy Story 2 and LOTR FOTR, and LOTR FOTR EE and TT EE are on order. I expect TT EE any day now! :p Both Region 1. Hmm. I wonder if it might not be possible to work around the Z2/3510A DVI-D handshake issue by either flashing the loader region free or swapping out the loader with a region free loader the way people do with the Momitsu V880. If HDCP is Region 1 specific, perhaps using a region free loader will prevent the problem.

Luchan, have you used any Region 1 disks?

All my DVD movies are original. DVD+/-R discs are home video. As I mentioned, the first DVD I played was original LOR EE.

my 3510 (that i returned yesterday) would output 720p and 1080i over component with all dvds.

Originally posted by brunoflipper
my 3510 (that i returned yesterday) would output 720p and 1080i over component with all dvds.
Am I right that it shouldn't do that in Region 1?

it should not but it did and other posters have reported the same...

is luchan the only person that has managed to get the 3510 to work with a z2 over dvi???

Originally posted by Luchan
All my DVD movies are original. DVD+/-R discs are home video. As I mentioned, the first DVD I played was original LOR EE. Was it Region 1? Thanks.

Originally posted by Muse
Was it Region 1? Thanks.

Yes.

The Good:

1. Very good ATSC tuner. Picked up all 10 OTA DTV channels (including 5 HDTV) channels broadcast in Portland using an 10 year old table top UHF antenna. HDTV picture quality is stunning.

2. Was able to latch on to around 100 QAM unscrambled digital cable channels (majority of them music) from my Comcast basic cable connection that I forced to subscribe to inorder to get broadband internet. These include the the local HDTV channels with which Comcast currently has agreements with and ESPN (digital standard def, not HD). However the 3510A has only one antenna output so one has to manually change the co-axial antenna/cable and rescan each time. I am mostly interested in the prime-time OTA and the PBS broadcasts so I use this option very infrequently.

3. Was able to play all the DVDs that I have tried so far in 1080i/720p using the YPbPr component connections using the cable that came with the 3510A. The picture quality is simply stunning. I am recommending everybody who owns a Z2 with the 3510A watch the documentary "Winged Migration" which is available in rental stores. Out of this world scenery.

The Bad:

1. The output mode (720p/1080i) is not sticky for playing DVDs. The annoying thing is once one switches outputs DVI/RGB/YPbPr one has to wait for a few seconds before it puts up the option change the modes 480i/native/480p/720p/1080i. This takes about ten seconds to cycle through since only one console button controls these output and mode changes. I can live with it for now since I have to go to the STB to load the DVD anyways.

2. It does not provide many options to change aspect ratios when the OTA signal has a broadcast flag set.

The Ugly:

1. 3510A's DVI connection (I use a CablesToGo 5m cable) did not work when playing any of the DVDs that I have tried so far. The HDCP handshake between the Z2 and 3510A fails very quickly (even for 480p and 480i) and I get an error message saying that I have to use the component output or connect to a HDCP compliant display. The Z2's input 2 is set to RGB AV (HDCP compliant) and not the RGB digital PC connection mode. So I have done all I can from the Z2 end to make the handshake work. The DVI output works fine for OTA as well as for digital cable. The difference in picture quality between component outputs and DVI for HDTV programming as well as the snatches of picture that I can see on DVDs before the handshake fails is not very perceptible (at least to the naked eye considering a 10 second switching delay and a white wall for a screen). I am playing phone tag with LG support on this issue right now. I will try to talk them into telling me how to get at the internal menus if I can.

peddagunnu, please let us know what LG tells you, I got my 2HD yesterday and my 3510 is due to be delivered on Monday. It seems like the DVI handshake is a problem with some and not others.

I've seen it fail in one setup and work in two others. The high end store had no idea what was going on. The warning message on the screen was in Spanish.

I did get the HDCP warning meesage three times in the past 2 weeks. I was able to clear it by powering down and up the 3510A unit.

I had the DVD disc skipping problem when the unit got too hot. The 3510A was sitting on the top of my AV receiver. I move it to a different sopt and it stays cool after 3 hours of DVD playing.

If you have a Sanyo Z2, remember never power down the 3510A when the Z2 is on. The Z2 will freeze up (remote and all keys on the Z2 panel will stop working) if it loses the DVI connection.

(1) Always power down the Z2 before the 3510A.
(2) Always power up the 3510A before the Z2.

I never had these crazy problems when I used Zenith SAT520 and Samsung HD931 with the Z2.

Got my replacement HS20 and 3510A in the past two days. (Had 8 packages in 2 days delivered but that's another story.) Hooked everything up last night. Got all the channels and then they started to pixelate. Now every channel is a big game of tetris. Not sure what's wrong but the channels came in for about 1 minute. The DVD player is working fine via both DVI or component. I think I may have a bad one.

Originally posted by clintroberts
Got my replacement HS20 and 3510A in the past two days. (Had 8 packages in 2 days delivered but that's another story.) Hooked everything up last night. Got all the channels and then they started to pixelate. Now every channel is a big game of tetris. Not sure what's wrong but the channels came in for about 1 minute. The DVD player is working fine via both DVI or component. I think I may have a bad one.

Sounds like low signal strength or a bad tunner.

Has to be a bad tuner as it came in at first then started to degrade. Also my SIR-T150 picks up everything...

Just a quick report: got my 3510A yesterday, and everything seems to be working great with my NEC HT1000. Beautiful picture, particularly the HDTV, which I just get OTA through a table-top UHF antenna in my basement (I'm blessed to live in a good reception area).

As for the "reset problem," I haven't experimented enough to know, but I did note that "Native," which appears to be the best choice for HDTV, may result in the DVD mode being displayed at 480p. "Native" seems to adapt to whatever is the incoming signal, and switch the output to that resolution. Thus SD DTV is output at 480p, but the HDTV might be either 720p or 1080i, depending on what's coming in. I combine that with an Aspect Ratio of "Set by Program," and it seems to work out pretty well, so long as I stay in the TV mode.

When I switch to DVD mode, I think it comes out 480p (I say "I think," because I need to play with it some more to be sure). Anyway, that would make sense when you consider what is the native resolution of a DVD. When I set DVD to 1080i, it appears to stay there when I power down and back up.

I'm in the process of getting the discrete codes for these display modes so that I can handle all of these changes with a macro on my remote.

Meanwhile, I have disconnected the Bravo D1, and will probably sell it or use it in another room.

Grandpa,
Please post back when you have those codes. I'm assuming they'll work for me too if I have a programmable remote control?
I too am pleased with my 3510a. I prefer 480p with DVD. The one problem
I've had in "native" is that when switching between sources of differing resolutions my TV has problems sync-ing via DVI. This could be my set (GWIII). Any problems for you of this kind? If I leave it at a set rez it doesn't happen, only in the modes which switch rez based on the source.
Charles

The following link should take you to RemoteCentral.com for a Pronto-compatible file containing discrete power-on and power-off and discrete 1080i, 720p,480p, and 480i codes: http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=pronto&db=devices&br=lg&dv=dvdhdtvreceiver&fc=

Yes, that's where I got mine. Note that there are several different LG HD devices (3200A, 3510A, 3410A, etc.). Some of the ccf files posted at remotecentral list some functions, and other files list other functions, even though they are functions common to all the devices. As noted in the Remote Control forum here, Robman has combined these into a single JP1 upgrade file.

This question is for the owners of the LG 3510A. Do you recommend this unit if my primary use for it is only as a DVD player? After seeing some problems posted on this thread, I cancelled my order from J&R. I need a new DVI capable DVD player to replace my Bravo D1. Any reasons to avoid it at the moment and just buy the Denon 5900 ( way more $$$) and be done with it? TIA.

Geff,
I had the Bravo D1. The 3510a has a little better PQ and without any operational issues. It's worth the money just as a DVD player. You get a good OTA/Cable HD tuner as a bonus.
Charles

Just got my unit :)

Questions for people with comcast.
1) What kind of cable band do they use (STD, HRC, IRC)
2) What channels numbers on 3510a for HD channels (802, 805, 807, 825, 849, etc).

Is anyone using the 3510A for playing DVDs on a plasma? If so, how does the picture compare to what you where using before?

How noticeable are the layer changes? Not too bad, lengthy, unnoticeable?

Any feeling as to how the DVD portion of the 3510a would fare in the Secrets tests?

I'm getting close to ordering one, but could use a little nudge.

3 weeks and so far awesome tuner and killer dvd pq .

1080i all the way.

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
3 weeks and so far awesome tuner and killer dvd pq .

1080i all the way. What's your display device?

Has anyone tried playing a PAL DVD (without copy protection)?

So I got my 3510A last week from J&R, tried out a few modes and found sparklies on 480P and 720P but didn't notice them (or perhaps they were less obvious) in 1080i. I tried 3 different DVI cables (2 7.5 meter cables and one that's 2 meters) and pretty much got the same thing. BTW, this is the first device i've connected via DVI where i've seen this. Any ideas what this could be or if the unit might just be defective?

Originally posted by imasu49
So I got my 3510A last week from J&R, tried out a few modes and found sparklies on 480P and 720P but didn't notice them (or perhaps they were less obvious) in 1080i. I tried 3 different DVI cables (2 7.5 meter cables and one that's 2 meters) and pretty much got the same thing. BTW, this is the first device i've connected via DVI where i've seen this. Any ideas what this could be or if the unit might just be defective?
I've understood that the "sparkles" can be caused by a drop in signal strength as cable length exceeds the ability of the display device to distinguish the "1" signal from the "0" signal.

Maybe your 3510A is outputting a weaker signal than it should. That would lead me to think the 3510A you have is defective. There sure couldn't be any argument about the 2 meter cable.

Originally posted by Muse
What's your display device?

I am using a 34xbr800.

I have been using it for awhile for OTA HDTV and HI RES dvd.

I have been watching alot of movies so far and all looked great.


So Far in 1080i:
Bad Boys 2
Lord of the Rings: Two Towers
Finding Nemo
Charlie's Angels

Well I hooked up my 3510 last night and what do I have .... nada!!

The HDTV Tuner works very well. Pictures look pretty good and it locks in on the signals quite well.

The DVD Side of things sucks! It will only play a DVD for about 5 minutes before it freezes, reboots itself, and then goes back to the menu (long process too).

For the few minutes it plays it will only do 480p over DVI or Component.

I get 1080i on the HDTV Tuner side just fine.

This is to an NEC HT1000.

I have called for an RMA already.

Greg

For what it's worth, I briefly tested out a 3510a with my HS20 last night.
I thought this would be of interest to the forum because I am using a 30' DVI cable purchased from RAM Electronics.

Initial impressions:

(1) Yes, unit defaults to 480p using DVI signal on DVD's but it's not a big deal to change the resolution from front panel. At 480p the image quality is very good, but IMHO no better than component video.

(2) DVI at 720p was extremely impressive. Much sharper, 3D-ish. Good contrast. Good blacks (even without making adjustments).

(3) DVI at 1080i was horrible. Significant overscanning. Fuzzy, grainy image of VCR quality. Thought I read on forum here (maybe it was post by SoftEngr?) that 1080i wreaks havoc with the HS20 scaler. Whatever is going on, the HS20 clearly is not able to deal with it properly.

(4) No 'sparklies' or any other artifact that I noticed during the 30 minutes that I was watching. RAM touts their DVI cable as being specially designed and mf'd to work at cable lengths as long as 50 feet. Can't vouch for 50', but their claim appears valid at least for my 30 foot length.

As of now, I am very pleased with the 3510.

Steve Marano

Originally posted by GCS
Well I hooked up my 3510 last night and what do I have .... nada!!

The HDTV Tuner works very well. Pictures look pretty good and it locks in on the signals quite well.

The DVD Side of things sucks! It will only play a DVD for about 5 minutes before it freezes, reboots itself, and then goes back to the menu (long process too).

For the few minutes it plays it will only do 480p over DVI or Component.

I get 1080i on the HDTV Tuner side just fine.

This is to an NEC HT1000.

I have called for an RMA already.

Greg You may have a defective unit. I have the HT1000 and have experienced none of those problems. The 3510A puts out all resolutions except 480i over DVI using a 15-20' cable directly to the projector. Component, S-Video, and Composite work fine as well, running through my AV receiver, although I haven't tried all resolutions with those connections. I also haven't tried the RGB. The player also generally holds the last selected resolution when it powers down and up again, possibly because the HT1000 remains in standby mode.

Well after a "discussion" through email and finally a phone call with the particular vendor I purchased from a new unit is on its way to me.

I am lookign forward to getting this new unit as I am anxious to get to playing with it.

Its worth noting that when I first powered up the unit and popped in FINDING NEMO I was able to watch it via component connection (DVI cable had not been attached yet) at 720p or 1080i and it was VERY NICE. However the DVD cutoff, rebooted and dropped to the menu screen after about 15 minutes. It continued to do this only in 5 minute shots now.

I hooked up the DVI cable and lost any ability to watch DVDs at anything other than 480p over any connection and it still cutoff and rebooted after 5 minutes. So basically I am convinced its defective.

Hopefully the new unit will make it to me by New Years as I would like to watch some movies over the holidays.

Greg

I've had mine since Wednesday (yes christmas eve wheee!), and I've watched a couple of movies with little to no problems. The only thing I've noticed is that sometimes my tv loses sync with the unit. This most definately is a cable as it is pretty much just a straight through dvi cable without the cylinder objects (capacitors?? shield? My mind is blank at the moment... 1 and half hours of sleep). Otherwise it's able to do something the Samsung 931 could not on my Toshiba 34HD82 and thats play at 1080i! I was limited to 720p on the samsung. I did a slight comparison between 720p and 1080i (since 1080i is more natural for my monitor without it having to scale a scaled image heh it was a lot clearer). When I had the Samsung and tried to watch Star Trek Insurrection the zoom modes on it were horrid since my tv does not allow you to resize the picture on anything greater than 480 modes. Yes I have a direct view tv. I preferred my xbox (avia tweaked over component xbox only does 480i) dvd playback than the samsung so I returned it. This box has exactly what I wanted. I was looking at HD Tuners (I love this tuner compared to my dad's Samsung T160... A LOT more friendly in the menus for me and love the signal button on the remote :) ) and those usually range at least $199 off of ebay and I had a hard time justifying the price just for 4 broadcast channels (actually digital channels is greater as one actually broadcasts WB and FOX here on their separate hd subchannels). Anyways, I'm rambling. This thing had pretty much everything I wanted as I wanted something that could use that DVI port in back plus I wanted a real DVD player. Too bad it doesn't do DVD-Audio or SACD, but does HDCD but releases are hard to find. Hearing about the successs of the different DVD formats being played on it plus looking in the manual and seeing it can play MP3's and WMA's off a disc (my car player can do both) this improved my initial perception. So far I've been able to watch Terminator 3, 2 Fast and 2 Furious and Finding Nemo. All played in 1080i. My tv doesn't "show" the current resolution it's in, but the way I check is to see if PIC Size is unavailable and it was the whole time. I do not have an AUTO DVI problem. When I first plugged in the unit it was set to default of RGB 1080i. Changed the format to 1080i over DVI and haven't had any problems except for the one which I'm about 80% sure its the cable. Going to get a shorter and more proper dvi cable and it happens randomly.

I was hoping to be disappointed in this unit, unfortunately I'm not. Comparing little stuff like OTA HD and SD channels is just jaw droppingly different and has ruined my tastes in picture quality. The first time I actually drooled to see Jay Leno on the tonight show because doing the comparison to the OTA HD, OTA SD and my cable provider's local channel feed is night and day. Either the tv station overprocesses it's regular standard signal or the HD really is that much better.

If you want me to try anything or any specific movies.

Like I said when I turn off and back on the unit it is 1080i. But I have noticed something on my tv since I plugged the LG up to the DVI port. The status light on my tv is always blinking now whether the lg is powered on or off. I'm thinking the TV and the LG are still talking to each other even when both are turned off. Also noticed that if I do not switch my tv to a different input, if I turn off the LG it also turns off my TV. Which could be annoying or convenient depending how you look at it....

$199 for say a bravo d1 or $299 for a samsung 931 give or take street pricing and at least $200 for a HD tuner, I think I'm doing good and think it was now worth the money.

Blackforge:

I have a 3510 coming(ordered on Tuesday) and probably should have checked this out before ordering the unit.

The Samsung 931, as least the early models, with DVI had a problem with black crush. Do you notice this on the LG3510?

Jim,
I've had a 3510a for several weeks now. I also had the Samsung for a few
days but returned it because of incompatibility with my GWIII in black levels
(so called black crush). The 3510a's DVI is set for the video standard as is my Sony set therefore no black crush. The Samsung is set to the PC standard for blacks so is mismatched to monitors set for the video standard. What I have noticed, however, is that on THX optimizer I can't
see the black shadow of the "THX". This is only via the DVI output. The
instructions for THX optimizer mention that some players will do this and I
had no problems adjusting black/white level with AVIA.
Charles

cpcat

Thanks for the response. I too have the Sony GWIII.
What you are seeing on the THX optimizer may be more of a function of the GWIII in the way it handles low IREs via DVI. If you're using Vivid mode (my personal favorite) you may find switching to standard or pro alleviates the black detail issue.

Jim,
I do typicallly use the standard mode for viewing. I've been really happy with black detail via DVI as well as the PQ in general. I also use the 3510a
as an OTA tuner and currently am getting ABC, NBC, CBS in HD all from 50-65 miles away with excellent reception and no drop-outs most of the time.
It seems that if I do have any problems it's on clear, sunny days. It's hard not to be happy with this unit.

My current user menu settings in Standard are:
P 54
B 46
C 29
H 31
S 32
Temp W

This is from a combination of AVIA, THX optimizer, viewing preferences, and recc's from others on this site.

My SM adjustments have been:
UGAM 10,8,0 (vivid, std,pro) for 480p and TV (RF)
makes settings same as default settings for 1080i and 720p in black level
DCP USER AXIS 0,0,0 (vivid,std,pro) for 1080i and 720p
corrects HD signals for red push and makes same as 480p, TV defaults
DCP ADJ 2 SHFO 15,15,15 for 480p and TV
makes sharpness same as defaults for 1080i and 720p

This allows me to watch HD, DVD at 480p via DVI, and Analog cable with the same user menu settings and it seems to work well.

Anyway, sorry to ramble but I'm sure you'll be happy with the 3510a. I'd be interested in any thoughts you might have on my settings since you also
have a GWIII.

Charles

I posted this question in the Display forum thread dealing with the NEC HT-1000, but I'd like thoughts from those who have the 3510A as well:

I recently gave up my Bravo D1 for the LG LST-3510A (I've been happy with the performance and don't miss the glitches). Can anyone see any benefit to setting the 3510A's output to 720p or 1080i rather than 480p for DVDs? As I see it, the HT1000 will need to scale the input to its own XGA resolution, no matter whether it receives 480p or some higher resolution. The difference is that to use 720p or 1080i, a DVD is first scaled up by the player, and then scaled down by the projector. Wouldn't it be better to have the scaling done only once and only by the HT1000? Does it depend on the relative quality of the scalers in the two devices (I don't know anything about what chips they use)?

For what it's worth, I have a 4:3 screen. When I watch a widescreen DVD using 480p, I have a choice of setting the player to Letter Box and the projector to Normal or setting the player to "Squeezed" and the projector to "Cinema." The former produces an image that is a tiny bit larger, i.e., very slightly taller and very slightly cropped on the sides. The latter produces an image in which horizontal bars in addition to the unused screen surface are visible, but not very. When I watch in either 720p or 1080i, the player has to be set to Wide and the projector is set to Normal (as best I recall).

When I watch a 4:3 DVD using 480p, I set the player to "Squeezed" and the projector to Normal. If I use 720p or 1080i, I set the player to Normal and the projector to Zoom to fill the screen (there are possibly other options using one of the zoom controls).

As far a picture quality, I'm sure someone could point out the differences to me, but I'm not very good at finding them myself. I'm mostly curious to know which "should" look best.

Too many "ifs" involved.

I would think a simplier approach would be to use Avia's resolution pattern, or other similar pattern, and seeing what produces the better resolution.

To me, watching DVD's at 480p looks best. It diminishes macroblocking in very dark areas. This doesn't show up often, but at the
beginning of Star Trek Insurrection I noticed it with the intro to the movie.
It was very noticeable via 720p or 1080i but not with 480p. This convinced me scaling once at my display is best. It makes sense as well.

However, if it wasn't for this particular example I'm not sure I would have been able to tell the difference. This problem is probably infrequent enough
as to render the difference insignificant. If you're OCD like me, though, it's reason enough to make it 480p.

Charles

OCD?

Originally posted by Grampa
OCD?

Obsessive compulsive disorder. I didn't know either when I first saw it a few months ago.

So here I am this afternoon at home waiting for the guys in the little brown truck to deliver my 3510. Listening intently for the familiar rumble of the UPS truck. Anticipating the smell of fresh electronics.

Would like to try the OTA HD receiver section for a couple of stations 80 miles out with my CM 4228 and amplifier. Antenna needs to be turned but its raining outside. Considering options. Will UPS guys rotate antennas?

I thought it meant "old cranky dude." That's because I spent yesterday on my roof in sub-freezing weather trying get better reception. I couldn't improve upon the Radio Shack indoor antenna sitting on a table in my basement. I hadn't thought of the UPS guy. If he's willing to work weekends, I could just hollar up to him whenever I want him to point it a different direction.

The little guy in the brown truck has come and gone leaving me a 3510.

I hooked it up via DVI to a 60" GWIII.

Performed a channel scan and found my 3 channels. Picture quality on the PBS affiliate is nother short of jaw dropping.

Switch to DVD and found that it retained 1080i output resolution. Turned it off and back on to see if it would switch to 480i as others have reported. When coming back on, it went to OTA. Manually switching it to DVD and found that 1080i was still there.

Comparing DVD performance at 480p, 720i and 1080i, via DVI, I believe that my old Toshiba SD-5109 DVD player at 480P via component has better picture quality.

Am I missing something? Is there perhaps a fault that its not changing resolutions as its reporting on the face of the receiver.

Some have reported that the face of the player is not always accurate, and the manual hints of this (e.g., "The selected resolution and ouput resolution may be different during playing back a DVD which copy protection signals are recorded. e.g., The ouput resolution is changed to 480p automatically even though the selected resolution is 1080i.") On my PJ, I can check what resolution is actually coming in.

That said, however, there is no restriction on outputting HD over DVI, so the player should not be switching you back to 480p unless you have the resolution set on one of the "variable" settings or "native." Is it possible there is some problem syncing with your display? What is its native resolution? And how bad is the picture?

For me (NEC HT1000), the picture is as good as the Bravo D1, but I don't claim to have an eye for making these judgments.

Hi all. I am new here, so here goes.

Can anyone confirm if the 3510 has the CUE problem. I have had the player for about 2 weeks now and find the HDTV tuner to be excellent. However, I noticed what appear to be CUE effects while watching 2001: A Space Odyssey (any scene in the "space Hilton" with the red chairs).

Pedalphile

What's the CUE problem?

The Chroma Upsampling Error. I'd post a URL about it, but the board won't let me post URLs yet.

Pedalphile
Was 2001: A Space Odyssey a DVD or OTA HD?

DVD.

Jim P,
I had to do some adjusting on my GWIII before I was happy with the picture in all modes i.e. analog cable via RF, HD and DVD via DVI at 1080i, 720p and 480p. Have you checked your current settings with DVE or AVIA now that you have the 3510a? You may find that you need different user menu settings through DVI. My current settings (both user menu and service menu) seem to work pretty well for me. I posted them a few posts back in this thread. Enter the service menu at your own risk, however, and
be sure to record factory defaults before you change anything.

I also have the CM 4228 and am getting about 60-65% signals from Knoxville for ABC, NBC which is about 65 mi. from me. I use a Blonder Tongue Valter III plus amp.

Good Luck
Charles

I tried to watch "X" (an anime DVD) on my 3510 last night. I have the 3510 set to 720p component output, but just after the the DVD started playing the 3510 changed the output to 480p but the display still indicated 720p. I know this because I saw my HS20 projector resync and verified that the HS20 info menu indicated that the input signal was 480p.

So yes, some DVDs will cause the output to switch back to 480p without changing the indicator on the front of the 3510.

In other news, I finally got a long DVI cable today and I'm going to start experimenting with it tonight.

On the GWIII, if you're in the service menu, it'll tell you what signal you're receiving. When I get back tonight, I think I'll try to see if its flipping back without my knowing it.

CPcat. Don't we have something of a problem if the service menu settings for the one DVI input varies depending on if we're using the DVD or HD function on the 3510?

What is a GWIII ? I am guessing some kind of (Gateway?) plasma tv.

Sony Grand Wega III

JimP,
It depends on where you are in the service menu. Some areas are consistent across all inputs and resolutions, others vary depending on input and/or resolution. The settings under UGAM, DCP USER AXIS, and
DCP ADJ 2 SHFO all allow independent settings for 1080i, 720p, 480p as well as the TV (RF) input. For the resolutions, it seems to hold whether it's via DVI or component (it recognizes the resolution and applies that setting regardless of input).

Essentially what I did was made the settings for black level, color, and sharpness equivalent regardless of whether watching analog cable, HD or DVD. I kept the factory defaults for the higher resolutions except for the correction of red push for HD. This allows me to set the picture via the AVIA DVD and the user menu and get a reasonable approximation of this calibration on the other sources. For analog cable, I set DRC to "high density" with custom setting of reality-1 and clarity-1 and this smooths out the edge enhancement that comes from the added sharpness setting in the service menu.
Charles

Hi all,

Just wanted to report back on what I thought was CUE. It turns out I just needed to crank down the color controls on my TV. I was using the 3510 with a DVI cable yesterday, and it turns out that the color setting have to be turned down about 1/3 compared to the component input settings on my TV(using DVE to calibrate).

anyone using this unit with panny commercial plasmas? I just want to make sure they are compatible on the DVI HDCP connection front. When LG says this player is capable of decoding QAM signals, does it mean that I don't need a cable box anymore to pick up all the DTV and HDTV channels via cable?

Originally posted by charlycui
When LG says this player is capable of decoding QAM signals, does it mean that I don't need a cable box anymore to pick up all the DTV and HDTV channels via cable?


Not exactly. The cable signal has to be of the unscrambled variety. Some system scramble their signals while others don't.

Originally posted by charlycui
anyone using this unit with panny commercial plasmas? I just want to make sure they are compatible on the DVI HDCP connection front. When LG says this player is capable of decoding QAM signals, does it mean that I don't need a cable box anymore to pick up all the DTV and HDTV channels via cable?
I just received one yesterday and hooked it up to a consumer Panasonic plasma (TH42PA20). The DVI HDCP connection worked with both DVDs and HDTV via cable, although I was only able to do a limited amount of testing. But I was able to view everything, so I see no problems on the DVI HDCP front.

Whether or not you need a cable box probably depends on whether your cable company scrambles the channels. I was able to receive the HD version of our local channels because TWC doesn't scramble them. I was able to receive a few other digital channels, but most were scrambled. Since I don't subscribe to digital cable, I can't say for sure if a box would unscramble the channels or if they just flip some switch somewhere.

Thanks JimP n JimSD

I'm not sure TWC NYC scramble their signals or not but I will subsribe to DTV and will get their Pioneer HDTV Cable box, I was just wondering if I would use this unit in the bedroom w/o renting another box.

JimSD

I heard the consumer Panny doesn't accept 720p signals(not sure). How does yours look after hooking it up with the LG player thru different resolutions? And I hope you don't get the DVI resolutions "resetting" issue.

Originally posted by charlycui
JimSD

I heard the consumer Panny doesn't accept 720p signals(not sure). How does yours look after hooking it up with the LG player thru different resolutions? And I hope you don't get the DVI resolutions "resetting" issue.
You're correct about the consumer unit not accepting 720p signals. I believe ABC is the one that uses 720p for their HD signal. I was viewing ABC fine last night. The LG was showing that it was outputting 1080i. Actually, ABC looked the best of the 3 major networks that I viewed even though it is 720p converted to 1080i. I'm going to calibrate the LG player with DVE tonight so that should improve the PQ. I still have a lot of experimenting to do to see what looks best. Since my display is natively 480p, my impression was that DVDs looked best at that compared to 1080i. So I may not use the upconversion for DVDs. My first impression is that the PQ improvement on DVDs is much more subtle than I had thought it would be. The HDTV PQ though is a very visible improvement over the SD. I'll know more about the DVD PQ after the calibration.

I finally got around to trying my LG 3510 this afternoon.

I found it very troublesome at first as I kept getting the HDCP unsupported message on my Samsung DLP (HLM upgraded), and thus I could not view my DVDs in 720p or 1080i over the DVI connection. A few minutes ago, however, I tried again and everything was working fine with DVI. Hopefully, that behavior will continue...

The picture on DVD--now that DVI is working--appears comparable to that on the D1 (better than Samsung 931).

From a usebility standpoint, I hate how one must use the front panel on the unit to change inputs and resolutions. Discrete remote codes are available for 480p, 720p, and 1080i, but they don't work in DVD mode, so one must revert back to DTV mode to change resolution. With my Samsung DLP, the 3510 forgets the last configured resolution and resets to 480p every time I turn it on. The unit always starts up in DTV mode, which can be a minor annoyance if you intend to use it primarily as a DVD player.

As far as cable and ota...

Off-air reception is excellent. I like that a signal strength meter is available at the touch of a button. I also like how the 3510 lets you label channels with logos.

The 3510 will search, find, and display OTA channels in a guide, but I have been unable to select and tune channels from this listing (am I doing something wrong?). Whenever I select a channel in the guide, all I get is more channel info. This behavior is unlike any set top box I have ever used. What good is a channel guide if you can't tune channels directly at the press of a button?

As far as cable, I was dismayed to find that the 3510 could not display a guide for the channels it found on Comcast Cable. It found about 15 digital channels in a search (including the HD locals and InHD channels), but it won't display them in a guide or listing -- I have to switch among them manually with +/- (or a surf button). That said, the picture on these cable channels is an improvement (noticeable, but not drastic) over that seen on the SA3100HD.

"The 3510 will search, find, and display OTA channels in a guide, but I have been unable to select and tune channels from this listing (am I doing something wrong?)."

No, you're not doing anything wrong. The guide issue and the resolutions constantly defaulting back to 480p makes me want to give the LG engineers a good hard kick. Its a shame when a device with such good performance is undermined by a poor user interface.

PS. The remote also needs a total redesign.

I just ordered a 3510a to go with my KV32HS510. Where did everyone get their DVI cables? I just need a short one, about six feet should do. L-com has the cheepest one I've found so far. Is anyone using theirs?

Jason

A new DVI player LG-DVB318 is being demonstrated at the CES 2004 show. Multi-disk format, DVI play only with no tuner recorder etc. features, silver, thin profile, looks good. $199 MSRP, available Feb. 2004.

Originally posted by jlindahl
I just ordered a 3510a to go with my KV32HS510. Where did everyone get their DVI cables? I just need a short one, about six feet should do. L-com has the cheepest one I've found so far. Is anyone using theirs?

Jason

Try Pacific Cable. (http://www.pacificcable.com/)

I recently purchased the LG-3510A to use with my Samung 50" DLP (HLM with HLN board upgrade).

With the 3510's DVI output set to 480p or 1080i, both 1.85:1 anamorphic DVDs and HDTV programming fill the screen of my Samsung DLP. Using component output, 480p, 720p, and 1080i also fill the screen with this player and content. However, when I set the 3510's DVI output to 720p, DVD and OTA signals do not fill the screen. There are small black bars around all sides of the 16:9 image, which shouldn't be the case if it's 1:1 display.

Has anyone else had this problem? And is there any way to fix it, such as an adjustment of picture height and width for 720p DVI in the service menu? I would very much like to use 1:1 pixel mapping (especially for 720p HDTV) with the 3510 DVI output, but not if it is going to reduce my picture size by 5-10%.

Originally posted by jlindahl
I just ordered a 3510a to go with my KV32HS510. Where did everyone get their DVI cables? I just need a short one, about six feet should do. L-com has the cheepest one I've found so far. Is anyone using theirs?

Jason
If you ordered the 3510a from J&R, they have a 6' DVI cable for just under $20 by QVS. Part is QVS CFDD-D06. Might be able to get them to add it to your order if that's where you got it from. It seems to be working fine for me.

I believe I need DVI-D.

Do I need single link or dual link?

Thanks,
Jason

jlindahl:
That's not a dumb question! :D Single link should be fine. Pacific cable or one of the AVS Forum sponsors above should be fine.

Originally posted by bfdtv
However, when I set the 3510's DVI output to 720p, DVD and OTA signals do not fill the screen. There are small black bars around all sides of the 16:9 image, which shouldn't be the case if it's 1:1 display.


While I don't have the 3510a yet (still pondering now that so many choices are popping up), it sounds like you just need to hit the "Aspect" button on your Samsung's remote to change it from "PC Wide" to "TV Wide". Oddly enough, PC Wide scales the image down to allow PC users to see their Start button, yet it is not 1:1 pixels. TV Wide gives you 1:1 pixels with a touch of overscan (overprojection, you might say).

It's in TV Wide. If I set it to PC wide, the bars are even larger.

bfdtv

Have you visited the setup menu? ;)
There's some stuff in there about stretching, letterbox and cropped. It seems that the setup menu is different depending on if you're on OTA or DVD, so be sure that you're in the right one.

jimp

Fisnihed 20 pages on this thread, i don't see any audio drop out problem mentioned. I guess this is a indeed a better one. So, do we have this problem on LG? Thanks

This was posted in the HDTV Hardware forum from DTV Tivo Dealer regarding the imminent firmware patch for the 3510 & 3100 ...

============
LG has just notified me that my orders are on hold as they are in the process of upgrading all LST-3100A's and LST-3510A's with new firmware patches. The upgraded inventory will be available next week.


__________________
Advanced Digital Technology Dealer
==========

To KenHDTV:

Do you know if this firmware patch will be made available to existing
owners of the 3510A?

To KenHDTV:

Do you know if this firmware patch will be made available to existing
owners of the 3510A?

JimP,

The aspect ratio is correct for 720p on the 3510a with DVI now. I'm not sure exactly what happened...I think at one point I was in PC wide, may have changed the unit's aspect settings to try and fix it, then changed to TV wide and never changed the aspect settings back.

All is well...except for the annoying reset bug and inability to tune from the guide.

Originally posted by arungupta
A new DVI player LG-DVB318 is being demonstrated at the CES 2004 show. Multi-disk format, DVI play only with no tuner recorder etc. features, silver, thin profile, looks good. $199 MSRP, available Feb. 2004.
Zenith and LG are closely related!
From the below URL:
Zenith's new single-disc players include the DVB312, DVB317 and DVB318. All three models feature progressive scanning and MP3 decoding; full compatibility with DVDs, CDs and CD-R/CD-RW discs, and JPEG and WMA files; and component, progressive scan, and S-video outputs. The DVB312 is housed in Zenith's sleek 1.7-inch high Super Slim chassis, while the DVB317 and DVB318 also include DVD-Audio capability, a variable-speed shuttle on the remote control, and digital audio outputs. The DVB318 also handles discs using the SACD format. The players are expected to be available in the second quarter at suggested prices under $100, $150 and $200, respectively.

http://www.3dsoundsurge.com/press/pr2590.html

Just got off the phone with a CSR rep at LG,


They know nothing of this Firmware patch being made available.

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
Just got off the phone with a CSR rep at LG,


They know nothing of this Firmware patch being made available.

Thats funny. I spoke with them yesterday. I mentioned to auto reset problem gave them my serial number and was put on hold. The tech came back and said the fix should be ready wednesday and that I should call back then. I even have a case number for it.

dozens:

Any clue what all the firmware upgrade is suppose to do(besides the auto reset problem)??

Originally posted by JimP
dozens:

Any clue what all the firmware upgrade is suppose to do(besides the auto reset problem)??

I assume that it will fix all the problems LG is aware of. I only mentioned auto reset and HDCP problem when upscaling DVDs. I will post a message after I call them tommorrow.

Did anyone find out if its true or not?

Just called and spoke some CSR. She looked up my case# and said there was no new update on the release. She didn't check with enginnering like the CSR woman (Lauren) I spoke with on Monday so I asked who is going to update it. She replied the CSR who created the case would.

I dunno, maybe I will call back later and try my luck again.

smarano, yes - I was told I would be contacted by LG to swap 3510 units.

Ken

Hello all, new here, thanks for all the good info so far.

I hooked up my new LG today and it is great. Except of course for the pesky reset bug. But I have a situation that makes it a little more annoying. It seems my volume drops out from time to time...actually twice today. I have to reboot, which requires me to walk my lazy butt over and reset to 720p, of course I get the HDCP error first.

Has anyone else had an issue with the audio? Any news on "reset bug" fixes yet?

thanks again

Oh and btw..can't seem to track down a customer service number...who are you calling about issues.

thanks

Fatburg,

That doesn't sound like part of the reset issue. Assuming you mean complete loss of audio, I think that's either defective product or maybe you are losing a digital lock. Are you using the digital out or analog outs for audio? It would be interesting if it occurred with both. Intermittent loss of audio can be the signal itself. Also, it's possible to lose a lock on the digital signal (assuming you are using the digital out). My processor occ. loses a lock with the 3510a if I set it to Dolby Digital but that doesn't occur when set to PCM. I've yet to hear a real 5.1 broadcast from my local channels (all have been in DD 2.0) so I just keep it set to PCM.

Charles

I was assuming the two problems weren't connected. I always have the reset issue, the sound issue is just random and it just sucks that I can't power down then back up from the remote cause I have to go reset to 720p.
Right now I have Fiber straight to my Receiver, DVI and Component up to my DLP. I might try hooking up a dig coax over to my receiver and see if I still have the problem, either way I am still going to call a CSR if I can track down a number.

Thanks for the reply.

I've just tried the THX optimizer test with a 3510 and my GWIII non XBR.

On component, it passes blacker than black.

On DVI and SVideo, it doesn't .

What's your experience??

Jim,
My experience is the same with my GWIII. I use AVIA to set black levels on the DVI input. Inability to pass blacker than black does not necessarily predict a poorer quality picture. The THX optimizer instructions mention this I believe. AVIA also mentions that their DVD will allow black adjustments on players that do not "pass pluge" which I think is what we are talking about.

Fatburg,
It sounds to me like your receiver may be losing a lock on the digital signal.
Mine does this as well. I can get it back by pressing a "analog-digital" toggle switch on my receiver remote. For me I get a loud irritating chirping sound through my speakers when this happens. Your receiver probably automatically mutes this sound (lucky for you). The solution for me has been to set the digital output in the setup menu to PCM and this no longer happens. PCM stereo is no different from DD 2.0 which the vast majority of
programs are broadcasting at least in my area. If I want the DD signal I simply switch it back. Go into the menu and switch to PCM the next time it happens and see if that fixes it.


Charles

Originally posted by cpcat
Jim,
My experience is the same with my GWIII. I use AVIA to set black levels on the DVI input. Inability to pass blacker than black does not necessarily predict a poorer quality picture. The THX optimizer instructions mention this I believe. AVIA also mentions that their DVD will allow black adjustments on players that do not "pass pluge" which I think is what we are talking about.

Charles

Charles
I checked one of my other DVD players and found that it passes pluge on Svideo and Component. So my thoughts are that its the 3510 that's not functioning correctly, not the GWIII. Not passing pluge on DVI, yet passing pluge on component seems odd.

I understand what you are saying about there being a way to adjust it even if it doesn't pass pluge, but then aren't you sacrificing a black level that falls below video black??:confused: :confused:

Edit: New behavior observed. Machine now totally locks up. Unplugging power, waiting five minutes and reconnecting make it work for about a minute and then locks up again. I guess I can now say that the player doesn't pass pluge(nor anything else for that matter) in any output. lol. Sure did nice OTA while it lasted. The wonders of electronics. Will it ever end.

Can any owners of this DVD player tell me if this unit has all region playing capability?

Thanks.

Can anyone explain what the problem is regarding picking up ntsc hd broadcasts or something like that? I have Direct TV and I would consider getting the HD dish etc. for broadcast. Can anyone please elaborate on this?

Jim,
I don't have the technical knowledge to answer that question. It bothered me at first, too. What I've found though is that after setting the blacks via
AVIA I've been very happy with the picture through the DVI input whether
DVD or HD. I have as much shadow detail and the blacks are as black as they have ever been on my GWIII. Even on CSI which is usually pretty dark
I've really not found any problems. I have made a few adjustments in the SM basically to make the settings for black all equal for 1080i, 720p, 480p and the RF input. I posted the settings a while back in this thread.

I'm very sorry and a little concerned to hear about your lock-up problem. Keep me updated.

Charles

I called Value Electronics this morning to check on my order and they said that orders were held up because LG was "fixing some bug," and that it would probably be shipped on Monday.

I guess that's promising.

J

Anyone know how to get rid of the subchannels. For example 8-1 is ABC here in Dallas/Fort Worth and 8-2 is the weather map. When I look up the channels to remove I cannot see a removable channel for 8-2. Therefore when surfing from 8 to 11 I always have to go through 8-2. Ugh!

You can delete unwanted channels - I've done it before but it's been awhile. Either check the on-screen menus again or look for the fine print in the manual.

Ken

clintroberts,
What I did was made a surf list with my main channels (minus subchannels) and then when you press "surf" it will scroll through those you select in order. You make a surf list in the ch. edit menu which is in the setup menu I believe. Select the channel and then press "surf" while in the menu to make your list.
Charles

Is there a hack to make it region free?

The DVD player in the 3510A doesn't use the Faroudja deinterlacing chip does it? I notice the LG DV7832NXC upconverting player with DVI output does. I'm happy with my 3510A, just curious about the Faroudja thing.

So this thing plays DVD's and also does HDTV for you too? What is the MSRP for this thing?

Suggested retail is $499.

Not sure what the MSRP is but the street is under $500. I sold my XP30 and moved my Samsung OTA HDTV box downstairs. I now have 1 DVI input to my HS20. Makes a lot of sense if you do not subscribe to satellite. I'm too cheap to pay $50+ a month, like to rent DVD's, and don't watch TV more than a few hours a week anyway so the few prime time shows are sufficient. If my wife had it her way we wouldn't have a TV and my 4 and 7 year old don't know what they are missing such as Disney and Nick. Now to keep them away from their cousins.

Originally posted by softengr
My review used the combination of the 3510 and the new Sony HS-20. I selected DVI output. I selected 1280*720 resolution. I set the HS-20 to pass-thru/1:1/ computer input.

i may be missing something here (i probably am) but where did you select the 1280x720 resolution to get 1:1 from this unit to the HS-20?

EDIT: i was on the right track but asked the wrong silly question. the real question is: isn't 1:1 on the hs-10 and hs-20 1366x768 as per the hs-10 faq? i've seen my htpc do this resolution on this projector and i've seen it on an hs-20 as well.

not to say the thing doesn't look spectacular at 720p. it does. i just thought the projector was doing a little internal scaling to get it up to that 1366x768 resolution. perhaps it's just displaying the 720p at 1:1 with some border? i don't know for sure.

anyways. it was not my intention to derail this into a 1:1 hs-10/20 conversation. as i posted below the unit looks spectacular.

1280x720 = 720p

Originally posted by dstroot
1280x720 = 720p

okay, sorry for the total newb question.

so if this thing's set to 1080i it's actually upconverting into my projector which is then downconverting it back to 720p (i have an hs-10)?

aard - exactly!

Some believe that actually creates a better image than 1:1 mapping - you should see which works best for you. There are a few posts that floating around in the forums that argue that sending the PJ more data and letting it scale down results in better quality. Most believe 1:1 mapping is best because fewer steps/less processing - but many PJs still monkey with 1:1 data to manipulate overscan, keystone, etc. YMMV.

Originally posted by dstroot
Some believe that actually creates a better image than 1:1 mapping - you should see which works best for you. There are a few posts that floating around in the forums that argue that sending the PJ more data and letting it scale down results in better quality. Most believe 1:1 mapping is best because fewer steps/less processing - but many PJs still monkey with 1:1 data to manipulate overscan, keystone, etc. YMMV.

thanks. i appreciate the info. =)

to keep on-topic:

on my hs-10 it seems that dvds look better at 720p - more crisp without any edge issues. on hd broadcasts i don't see a whole lot of difference between 1080i and 720p. more research will have to be performed (hello, superbowl).

on a friend's hs-20 the picture from a dvd at 720p looked superior to his uncalibrated htpc playing a dvd. from the forum it seems that a well calibrated htpc might beat it, but for no tinkering this thing looked spectacular. he was using powerdvd and some other dvd playing software that was recommended on here.

so i'm pretty pleased with this unit. no problems to speak of.

I am in need of some help I have an HT1000 and D1 and the D1 is junk!
Can any one tell me how the LG LST-3510A works with the HT1000 and where I can buy one. PLEASE HELP.

Thanks,
Grady

I just read through the first 8 or 10 pages of this thread until my eyes started to bleed. So far I did not see the answer to the one question that matters to me (if it was answered on pages 11 through 22 I apologize).

I've had two of the Sigma 8500 upscaling DVI players. The D1 and the V880.
Both are worthless as spit simply because they don't work right most of the time (as if you don't know this).
Everything about this unit so far is exactly what I want. But if, and only if,
it works reliably. How do we know yet that it will indeed work reliably?
In the beginning we all thought the D1 was sweetness and light too. That is until a few people got some hours on them. And then we saw different.
Is there any assurance that it won't turn out the same way with this?

Originally posted by moeronn
This unit is over-kill (and over expensive) to use just for the DVD player. There are a couple other DVI enabled DVD players out there that you should look into instead.

Search for:
Samsung 931
Bravo D1
Momitsu v880

See above comment.

Originally posted by RobertWood
I just read through the first 8 or 10 pages of this thread until my eyes started to bleed. So far I did not see the answer to the one question that matters to me (if it was answered on pages 11 through 22 I apologize).

I've had two of the Sigma 8500 upscaling DVI players. The D1 and the V880.
Both are worthless as spit simply because they don't work right most of the time (as if you don't know this).
Everything about this unit so far is exactly what I want. But if, and only if,
it works reliably. How do we know yet that it will indeed work reliably?
In the beginning we all thought the D1 was sweetness and light too. That is until a few people got some hours on them. And then we saw different.
Is there any assurance that it won't turn out the same way with this?



See above comment. Take care of those eyes - they're the only pair you get. Never had a D1, but I'm still using my V880, acquired around Dec. 1, 2003 (2 months ago). I encourage you to install the latest firmware, dated 1/26/04 and accessible here (http://www.manowa.com.tw/dvdplayer880FWDL.html). It seems to resolve some if not most of the vexing issues. At least Manowa continues to work on and steadily release new versions of the firmware, which Bravo does not.

There have been many reports of people having problems with the 3510A and the Sanyo PLV-Z2, so I've held off on ordering. I need a DTV/HDTV tuner, and that would be my foremost reason to get the 3510A. Not sure if the 3100A is equivalent for OTA. From what I've read, DVD issues with the 3510A may actually make the V880 a preferred alternative.

I had the V880 first and then sold it and bought the D1.
No longer have it.

If there are already "DVD issues" being reported with the 3510a then that's all I needed to know. I'm out. Thanks, Muse. You just saved me from making a $500 mistake.

Originally posted by RobertWood
I had the V880 first and then sold it and bought the D1.
No longer have it.

If there are already "DVD issues" being reported with the 3510a then that's all I needed to know. I'm out. Thanks, Muse. You just saved me from making a $500 mistake.
The DVD issues seem to be limited for the most part to whether the HDCP implementation allows it to output upconverted 1080i for DVDs to your display. If your display isn't one of the ones it has an issue with you'd be OK. The latest firmware will supposedly correct some of those issues. I've only had it for about 4 weeks, but I have had no issues with DVDs whatsoever. Everything has played fine for me.

If this player was locking up on DVDs all the time like so many of the D1s and V880s apparently do, I would think this thread would be much more active and not have gone so many days without a single post. Since it is so new however, you may want to wait a few months to see how it shakes out over the longer term so that you don't get burned again. Like you I don't want to mess with changing loaders, constantly downloading firmware, etc. I just want something plug-n-play. So far both the DVD and HDTV receiver portions of the 3510A have met that expectation for me.

Thanks, Jim for the good advice. I'll keep an eye on what develops.
I would be using it with an HT1000 and I do like the idea of a single DVD/HDTV solution.

p.s. I hate that I sounded so cynical. But it's just that the first go round of DVI players has made some of us be that way now.

Bob

Is this the 3510A without the tuner?

LG DV7832NXC DVI Player (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348481&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)

Originally posted by htwaits
Is this the 3510A without the tuner?

LG DV7832NXC DVI Player (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=348481&perpage=20&pagenumber=1)
Some have speculated the the upcoming Zenith DVB318 and the LG DV7832 are basically the same player and there was earlier speculation that the DVB318 was basically the same as the DVD player portion of the 3510A. But the LG DV7832 apparently has a Faroudja chip from what I've read and I have never heard that mentioned about the 3510A. I asked the Faroudja question earlier and no one stated it had it, so I'd assume they have some differences.

Guys,

Early on in this thread there was some disagreement about whether the 3510a actually has RGB out. Does it (and will it do 1080i/720p at the RGB output)?

Bob

Originally posted by RobertWood
Guys,

Early on in this thread there was some disagreement about whether the 3510a actually has RGB out. Does it (and will it do 1080i/720p at the RGB output)?

Bob
I don't actually use the RGB out, but looking in the manual it shows that it has it. It also has a disclaimer that says "RGB signal is not output through the "RGB OUT" jack during playing back a DVD which copy protection signals are recorded. We recommend that you use component video connection and a 480p or 480i resolution."

Thanks

Is the tuner functionality of the 3510A equivalent to that of the 3100A?

Robert,
The only issue with the 3510a that I'm aware of is the DVI-reset issue. The unit defaults to 480p at power up if you leave it in either native or one of the variable modes. If you fix the rez, it doesn't happen. Mine also has problems sync-ing when in these same modes but only to an SD signal. The firmware fix is supposed to address this.

I'm unaware of any other widespread complaints about this unit. I've had mine for three months or so and have had no other issues. It's a nice OTA tuner as well. I also had the D1. PHOOOEY on that thing.

Charles

Originally posted by cpcat
Robert,
The only issue with the 3510a that I'm aware of is the DVI-reset issue. The unit defaults to 480p at power up if you leave it in either native or one of the variable modes. If you fix the rez, it doesn't happen. Mine also has problems sync-ing when in these same modes but only to an SD signal. The firmware fix is supposed to address this.

Charles

Mine always resets to 480p even when I leave it on 720p at power off. I just sent my unit back for the new firmware so hopefully it will be a thing of the past.

Dozens,
Any chance the firmware will be available via CD or serial port at some point? I'm not sure the problem is aggravating enough for me to ship it back.
Charles

I was told the LG will not allow customers to update their own firmware. There is no cost to you to send the box back.

Hello

I just got a stock alert from one of our favorite vendors of the 3510A. I don't know if I have the cajones to pull the trigger to verify the firmware fix. Any Z2 owners out there?

Regards
Steve

I've been out of this forum for a few weeks. Is the reset issue the only change addressed by the firmware fix? Did you call LG or the place where you bought it?

By the way, I've also had this unit for a couple of months and never had any problems (except occasional "reset to 480p"). I use it with the NEC HT1000, and it generally looks great.

Originally posted by stephenfrancis
[B]Hello

I just got a stock alert from one of our favorite vendors of the 3510A.

Me too. And I did pull the trigger. Figured there's no time like the present
and it's only money. :)

Dozens,
Keep us updated on the firmware fix. I'll be interested to know how long it takes and what it fixes. Did your unit also have problems sync-ing to SD sources at times? Mine does when in variable or native.
Charles

Originally posted by cpcat
Dozens,
Did your unit also have problems sync-ing to SD sources at times? Mine does when in variable or native.
Charles
Do you mean that it's not syncing up at all or just taking several seconds? When I go from an HD channel to an SD channel it seems to take a couple seconds to sync up, but it always syncs up.

Originally posted by Grampa
I've been out of this forum for a few weeks. Is the reset issue the only change addressed by the firmware fix? Did you call LG or the place where you bought it?

By the way, I've also had this unit for a couple of months and never had any problems (except occasional "reset to 480p"). I use it with the NEC HT1000, and it generally looks great.

I called LG (877-993-6484) to arrange for the update.

Originally posted by cpcat
Dozens,
Keep us updated on the firmware fix. I'll be interested to know how long it takes and what it fixes. Did your unit also have problems sync-ing to SD sources at times? Mine does when in variable or native.
Charles


When I asked the CSR rep what the firmware fixed she said that DVI output would only show half the screen :) If that was the case I would of obviously return the unit the day I got it. So I just assumed she didn't know what it fixed.

The other major issue is the DVI port won't sync with an Z2. Anyone with a Z2 that confirm this has been fixed as that's the main reason I've been holding off on getting a 3510. Thanks.

John

Originally posted by cpcat
Robert,
The only issue with the 3510a that I'm aware of is the DVI-reset issue. The unit defaults to 480p at power up if you leave it in either native or one of the variable modes. If you fix the rez, it doesn't happen. Mine also has problems sync-ing when in these same modes but only to an SD signal. The firmware fix is supposed to address this.

I'm unaware of any other widespread complaints about this unit. I've had mine for three months or so and have had no other issues. It's a nice OTA tuner as well. I also had the D1. PHOOOEY on that thing.

Charles

Originally posted by jcg
The other major issue is the DVI port won't sync with an Z2. Anyone with a Z2 that confirm this has been fixed as that's the main reason I've been holding off on getting a 3510. Thanks.

John Same here. But I read a post or two that suggest that it may be specific to firmware 101 Z2's, which is what I have. I'm still trying to find out if the tuner portion of the 3510A is equivalent to the 3100A. If so, I guess I'll get the 3100A, since I'm having pretty good performance from my Momitsu V880 with the 1/26/04 firmware (knock on wood).

Back when the Z2 first came out it seemed that there were lots of people using other HDCP DVD players and not reporting any issues. Only issues I've seen are with the 3510A, so seems like the problem would be the 3510A, not the Z2. Of course later version of firmware may make it better too, but it would be nice to verify that the new 3510A firmware has fixed the problem (even with the old Z2 firmware). So anyways if anyone gets a new rev 3510A and tries it with a Z2 please post the results (ans what Z2 FW you are using). Thanks.

John

Originally posted by Muse
Same here. But I read a post or two that suggest that it may be specific to firmware 101 Z2's, which is what I have. I'm still trying to find out if the tuner portion of the 3510A is equivalent to the 3100A. If so, I guess I'll get the 3100A, since I'm having pretty good performance from my Momitsu V880 with the 1/26/04 firmware (knock on wood).

I got my 3510a on January 30th, supposedly after the fix. I'm sad to report that I am experiencing both of the problems reported above.

Occasionally the resolution resets from Native to 480p.

And sometimes while in native and flipping through channels I won't get a picture on SD channels. If I turn the TV off and back on the TV immediately gets a picture and there are no more problems.

I am using the 3510a with a KV32HS510 via DVI cable only.

Jason

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
Although the 3510A will output 720p/1080i through component and RGB for the HDTV OTA and QAM tuners, for DVD, 720p/1080i is only available from the DVI output, and only with an HDCP compliant display.
Component DVD is limited to 480i/p. There is no RGB output at all for DVD.

I just called the customer service at LG to see if it is possible to play DVD using 720P or 1080I in 16:9 mode through the DVI output. They told me that only works if the DVD media is capable of high resolution. This is new to me because I thought this unit upscale the resolution of any DVD material and I don't know of any DVD is specailly marked high res (Superbit DVD?????) My Sony KV-36HS510 TV I believe is HDCP compliance. So am I wrong or is someone else seeing the same issue.

What you were told by LG is wrong and nonsensical. There is no "DVD media capable of high resolution" yet available. If you have an HDCP compliant display device, the unit should up convert to 720p/1080i in 16:9 format. Check to make sure your Sony is HDCP compliant on the DVI input.

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
What you were told by LG is wrong and nonsensical. There is no "DVD media capable of high resolution" yet available. If you have an HDCP compliant display device, the unit should up convert to 720p/1080i in 16:9 format. Check to make sure your Sony is HDCP compliant on the DVI input.
I saw an example of that yesterday. I was checking out the OPTOMA 50" DlP which doesn't support HDCP. The begining of "Finding Nemo" was showing some banding in the background blue water (behind the shafts of sun light). The store had the five sets being fed "progressive" from a single DVD through component.

When the salesman tried to connect the Samsung HD931 DVD player via DVI/HDMI all he got was some faint sound and no error message or video signal.

I bought my DVD player yesterday, and could only get a hand full of DVD's to play. the rest of them would not play through DVI, some sort of HDCP message would pop up. I have the RCA Scenium DLP.

Livin, sounds like your box needs the firmware fix. You'll have to call customer service and tell them you need the firmware fix for the 3510 - they'll need your serial# and will mail you an Airborne shipping label.

In the meantime, try changing the DVI setting to 480p, and then after it locks, change it back to 720p - that works for me.

Ken

I remember reading these questions a long way back, but don't remember ever seeing any definite answers. Here is my experience for anyone who may still be curious:

The 3510a DOES pass blacker than black over DVI. I checked with DVE last night.

The layer change is noticeable but less than a second.

Also, I lost sound after a layer change on LOTR last night. I had to turn the unit off and back on to get it back. On the plus side, the player remembered where I had left off.

Jason

Anyone care to show some screen shots with this LG player hooked up with DVI??

as opposed to another player with component?

*no screenshot debates wanted*

Just tried to insert an image in the text block.

I'm getting a text promp which I click on IMG.

Has the procedure for including an image changed?

LG has been around for many years. Many of you may recognize their former name, Goldstar, on some of your old VCRs, TVs and microwaves. LG stands for Lucky-Goldstar which was the original name of the company when it was founded in the 1950s by my uncle's grandfather. The company has been owned and operated by the Koo family since that time as is the custom with most Asian conglomerates.

LG does own Zenith now and has a very close working relationship with Phillips.

I would say that in the world of Korean electronics, Samsung is still going to be better than LG, but this is a difficult generalization to make as the two companies tend to concentrate on different technologies.

Oh yeah, the 3510A looks intriguing! :D

Originally posted by jagz
... LG stands for Lucky-Goldstar which was the original name of the company when it was founded in the 1950s by my uncle's grandfather. The company has been owned and operated by the Koo family since that time as is the custom with most Asian conglomerates.

Please ask you uncle if the LG RU-52SZ30 LCD RPTV has an "all digital" path for a 720p source through it's DVI port. :D

Kidding aside, when I previewed the set with the 3510A and "Finding Nemo" there was some bad banding in the deep water background of the opening scene as well as in other scenes.

I didn't expect that result with a DVI connection. :(

I didn't expect that result with a DVI connection.
That's the main reason I've been hesitant to include DVI-out as a "must-have" in my search for a DVD player (which has been frustrating).

I've heard about too many inconsistencies with DVI variations from TV to TV though the general consensus is that it does give you a much better image. Maybe by the time my search ends, it will be more standardized.

Do you mean that it's not syncing up at all or just taking several seconds? When I go from an HD channel to an SD channel it seems to take a couple seconds to sync up, but it always syncs up.

JimSD,
When it loses sync in this situation it often doesn't regain it. It keeps trying but is not successful, or maybe I'm just too impatient to wait. It only occurs with SD signals in native or variable when switching from an HD signal. If I have it on a fixed rez there's no problem.

Charles

Originally posted by jagz
TMaybe by the time my search ends, it will be more standardized.
My search will end when there is a "standardized" combo. The Samsung DLP sets seem to do very well with DVI input but so far I haven't found a trouble free DVI capable DVD player that I can afford.

I would liked to try other DVI DVD players with the LG LCD set, but so far there haven't been any opportunities.

By the way, isn't your "uncle's grandfather" your great grandfather? :)

Originally posted by cpcat
JimSD,
When it loses sync in this situation it often doesn't regain it. It keeps trying but is not successful, or maybe I'm just too impatient to wait. It only occurs with SD signals in native or variable when switching from an HD signal. If I have it on a fixed rez there's no problem.

Charles
Is your sync problem when you are switching from an HD channel to an SD channel or when one channel goes from HD to SD?

I'm trying to figure out an issue I'm having where I'll lose sync on an HD channel and I have to change channels and then back to get it to come back into sync. I've only noticed it at night on a particular channel so I'm not sure if it's an external source in the house causing the problem. The channel is sharing a QAM transport carrier with another local channel (i.e. 116-1 and 116-2) and I am going to check tonight if it loses sync when the other channel goes to a break.

By the way, isn't your "uncle's grandfather" your great grandfather?
Nope... he's my uncle by way of marriage through my dad's younger sister.
I'd be banking if I was a true blood relative and everyone on this forum would receive LG products for beta testing :D

Is your sync problem when you are switching from an HD channel to an SD channel or when one channel goes from HD to SD?

It only happens when I switch channels. I guess it would happen if the actual resolution on the channel switched but mine never do i.e. the HD channels always broadcast in 1080i or 720p even when they are showing SD programming. Ironically, Fox always broadcasts in 1080i but never shows HD programming.

Charles

Kidding aside, when I previewed the set with the 3510A and "Finding Nemo" there was some bad banding in the deep water background of the opening scene as well as in other scenes.

I didn't expect that result with a DVI connection.

That's because that banding is on the disc itself. The DVI was just being accurate.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=166494

Sad but true. I reviewed this DVD for HTF (saw Nemo on more than 3 different projectors...and it showed the same banding every time to some degree) and I've had confirmation from many other folks with far superior video systems that these artifacts are encoded on the disc istelf and not a result of something going on in the display chain.

Don't blame the DVI for showing you what's on the DVD!

dave :)

After a lot of experimentation and observation I've found that the QAM tuner in my 3510A is losing the signal of channels when another channel on the same carrier signal is in a commercial break or comes out of one. For example, CBS is on 116-1 and ABC is on 116-2. About 10 seconds after ABC comes out of a commercial break I will lose the signal on the CBS channel and it won't recover unless I change the channel and then change back to CBS. The screen will have a message from the 3510A saying the signal is scrambled and the display on the 3510A says No Signal. The signal strength is actually fine and very consistent. The problem doesn't seem to occur with the 116-2 channel when the 116-1 goes to commercials. I detected a glitch on a different pair of channels too where the -1 channel was affected when the -2 channel went to or came out of a break.

Has anyone else using the QAM tuner in the 3510A experienced a problem like this?

Originally posted by DaViD Boulet
That's because that banding is on the disc itself. The DVI was just being accurate.

Sad but true. I reviewed this DVD for HTF (saw Nemo on more than 3 different projectors...and it showed the same banding every time to some degree) and I've had confirmation from many other folks with far superior video systems that these artifacts are encoded on the disc istelf and not a result of something going on in the display chain.

Don't blame the DVI for showing you what's on the DVD!

dave :)
You are right. There is banding in the DVD itself but ...

The visible banding seems to range from "very bad and intrusive" to "not noticed unless I ignore the movie".

On the "bad" end of the setups I've checked is the LG LCD fed through DVI by the 3510A.

The 52" DLP OPTOMA fed progressive/component input was good enough that the banding wouldn't intrude.

The Fujitsu 50" Plasma fed progressive/component input from the top of the line Panasonic DVD player had faint banding that was really hard to see.

The Loewe 50" Plasma through a Leeza produced an image were I didn't notice any banding but I may not have been in focus.

I've also seen some of "Nemo" in other setups including a front projector show room with a ~$10K HD2 projector and I don't know what else. I didn't notice banding but again I wasn't looking for it and I don't know what was feeding the projector.

I don't know if the LG setup is pure digital but that might explain why the banding is so intrusive. Maybe good quality analog just covers it up.

I haven't had a chance to try the Samsung DLP via DVI. The Samsung DLP/DVI owners have reported that going to DVI improved their banding/clay-face problems.

It's a puzzlement.

For those using the QAM tuner of the 3510A, what sort of signal level are you seeing on your cable feed? I see about 60% and LG is saying this may be my problem.

possible that the accuracy of the DVI is just making the banding artifact more clearly rendered. That's true of MPEG noise as well sometimes...the better video connection can make compression noise more obvious whereas less accurate video connections can "smooth out" the artifacts.

Just an idea.

Originally posted by DaViD Boulet
possible that the accuracy of the DVI is just making the banding artifact more clearly rendered. That's true of MPEG noise as well sometimes...the better video connection can make compression noise more obvious whereas less accurate video connections can "smooth out" the artifacts.

Just an idea.
One of the current Elite DVD players brought out the banding on the LG LCD through progressive component input too. A Maridian home theater system did the same thing. Do you think they are more accurate than the Leeza?

I'm going to run down a Samsung HLN/DVD through DVI combo today and see how that looks.

I would recommend using Toy Story 2 as a better animation reference DVD over Nemo.

Ken

Originally posted by kenhdtv
I would recommend using Toy Story 2 as a better animation reference DVD over Nemo.

Ken
I'm sure you are right. I haven't really been using it for a reference disk. I've mainly been trying to figure out why I'm seeing banding all the way from very intrusive to almost invisible depending on the equipment and setup involved.

I guess it boils down to the Samsung DLP sets will introduce banding through analog connections under certain conditions. Switching to DVI prevents that banding from happening since there are no analog conversions.

In the case of Nemo, the banding is in the movie so a 720p DVI connection makes it easier to see.

Some high end analog equipment seems to make Nemo's banding harder to see. I'm not sure why that's the case but it's what I've seen in showrooms.

If you are using the QAM tuner in the LST-3510A, could you please take at look at this thread Questions for those using QAM tuner in LG receiver (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=365714) .

Thanks.

Bump... and...

htwaits, have you tried the LG + HLP to see if the Nemo banding is any better?

Also, any thoughts on OTA reception?

Thanks for the PM last pm.

IMHO Nemo is the better source to use when trying to compare pq simply because you'll have an easier time picking out pq differences with it than with Toy Story 2. (such as banding, halos, bw crush, compression artifacts)

Nemo can look terrible on a bad player and better (not great) on a good player, whereas, Toy Story 2 generally is a good looking disk. With that said, I would use TS2 as a demo disk versus Nemo.

There is some Nemo banding. I've seen a HLN507 that was calibrated and it has been the only DLP that hasn't had "Nemo" banding that was easy to see.

I think the 3510A/HLP combination is better (uncalibrated) than most of the sets I've seen. The trouble with that is that most times it was a component connection.

The LG DLP and LCD RPTV sets combined with the LG LST3510A had the worst banding that I've seen. Go firgure.

Reception OTA has been fine if the stations are in front of my antenna. The two stations to the the rear of the 27 year old monstrosity on my roof do have some video/audio digital drop outs. I'm amazed that I get any image from that at all. I'll be fixing the antenna setup before the Olympics because NBC is one of those stations.

Originally posted by mmccking
Nemo can look terrible on a bad player and better (not great) on a good player, whereas, Toy Story 2 generally is a good looking disk. With that said, I would use TS2 as a demo disk versus Nemo.

Fwiw, the difference between Nemo on my 50" Samsung DLP and my new Dwin TV3+ is just stunning. There was tons of banding and compression artifacts on the Samsaung RP; I almost stopped watching the movie do to them. On the Dwin, Nemo is absolutely stunning. There are a few artifacts left (most obvsiouly in the scenes where they run from the anglerfish in the depths of the ocean), but nowhere near as many. This is with the same (almost 5 year old Panasonic) DVD player on component inputs. I was amazed by the differences between the two devices.

Erik

Originally posted by ewtroan
Fwiw, the difference between Nemo on my 50" Samsung DLP and my new Dwin TV3+ is just stunning.
I've seen parts of "Nemo" projected by the HD2+ Dwin and Marantz front projectors. Amazing picture quality. If I just had a "good" room I would sell the cat and get one of them.

It's not just that the banding was gone, but that the detail was so much richer.

Curiously, I see more banding (with Nemo) running DVI than I do component 480I or 480P into my BenQ 8700+. However, the image has more 3-dimensionality and cleanly resolved image detail running DVI so I'll stick with it.

Any way, the point is that component (or any other analog) vs DVI may produce different results in regard to banding...

ewtroan & DaViD:
I do not have much banding at all on my calibrated DLP whereas pre-calibration there was quite a bit. I would suggest serious service menu tweaking or an ISF calibration to rid your sets of this problem. Of course, there are most probably displays that are better calibrated out of the box... Also as a matter of course, using a DVI connection with a properly calibrated DLP will produce the best possible image.

I recall seeing a discussion of Nemo on the DVD Software forum that there is some banding on the disc regardless of display which is probably adding to the problem...

Yes, the nemo disc has banding on it period...so even optimal calibration and data transmission will not get rid of all of it. I think that in some cases, component analog connections actually "smooth over" color gradations...pleasing to the eye but actually not as faithful to the source.

Originally posted by DaViD Boulet
Any way, the point is that component (or any other analog) vs DVI may produce different results in regard to banding...
I don't remember asking how the Dwin and the Marantz projectors were connected. My guess is that it was analog.

David I would expect the same results that you report.

The only example of an ISF calibrated (SethS) HLN507 that I've seen (DVI input) did have banding reduced the to point where you had to really focus to tell that it was in Nemo.

What I've experienced with DLP RPTV is the same as mnilan but we both have only one example each to go on.

I guess what I've seen from the LG setups would match David's experience -- banding more clearly defined through DVI.

It's a puzzlement -- at least to me. :rolleyes:

David,

"Sad but true. I reviewed this DVD for HTF (saw Nemo on more than 3 different projectors...and it showed the same banding every time to some degree) and I've had confirmation from many other folks with far superior video systems that these artifacts are encoded on the disc istelf and not a result of something going on in the display chain."

Interesting. I didn't see any bands on my 58" CRT setup fed with ESS decoded and Silicon Image deinterlaced analog 480p. I wonder if an ultra-high performance CRT setup fed with all analog (480p or higher resolution via component created by a high-end analog-in/analog-out external processor) on a much larger screen - such as a Sony G90 at 100" would show the bands? This would prove once and for all whether "...CRT blurrs or slurrs pixels at bit so as to mask the banding, while DVI 'shows it all'". I would think that a G90 should show CRT video capability at it's epitome, and hence resolve the issue as to whether something in DVD's can in fact slip past well-prepared CRT images without getting shown while at the same time showing up on consumer grade DVI.

All the precise timing inter-relationships required to be just right between DVI and fixed column-row displays may require some subtle bugs to be worked out yet across the broad consumer marketplace? Just a wonderance on my part.

Originally posted by DaViD Boulet
Yes, the nemo disc has banding on it period...so even optimal calibration and data transmission will not get rid of all of it. I think that in some cases, component analog connections actually "smooth over" color gradations...pleasing to the eye but actually not as faithful to the source.

I agree, especially noticeable at the base of the anemone tentacle when Nemo jumps on his sleeping father. No matter what player or monitor I see it on, it's always there to some degree worse than others.

As for a simple "fix" to drastically reduce banding on the Samsung DLPs, turn off Digital Noise Reduction. With that on, no matter how much calibration is done to the set, the banding will not go away.

Does anyone know if there is a firmware update on this player recently? I had this experience once when the picture came out to my TV at only a quarter of the space. Imagine a 47" HDTV with only 1/4 of the screen displaying the pictures. Don't know if a firmware update will fix t his though.

My setup:

Panasonic 47" Projection HDTV PT-47X54
LG LST-3510A
Using DVI/HDMI cable

Thanks in advance!

I saw this LST-3510 (A?) at Best Buy yesterday - $399. Is this a 1-year-old model? Any comparison between it and the $299 Sony 975 (which lacks the HD tuner)?

I'm sorry if my questions have been answered before, but after reading through 8 pages of this thread that had very little to do with the LG 3510, I feel compelled to ask.

I have an H30 projector. It has component input through a VGA adapter. I currently have a 4-year old Toshiba non-progressive DVD player, and it's time for me to upgrade.

Could I use the DVI output from the 3510 into the H30 through some sort of adapter?

What's the picture quality of the 3510 compared to other models in the same price range?

Some say it's overpriced, but I like the idea of a DVD player with OTA HDTV. Any owners care to comment on their experiences with the 3510?

There's no adaptor that I'm aware of for you to use DVI. I'm sure you could use the component outputs though. The later models won't upconvert through component if that matters to you. I've had one for over a year and I'm perfectly happy with it. I *think* it might have rgb outputs, (I can't remember) which you could utilize.

I've never been able to tell the difference b/w DVI and component and I've tried to see a difference multiple times. I have a digital display (Sony GWIII).

I have Cox Cable and the HD channels are in the 800's. It's my understanding the 3510 only goes up to 135. Will the 3510 reassign the numbers or will I not be able to receive ESPN HD, INHD, etc.
Thanks!

Digital cable channel numbers are arbitrary numbers. You have to find out the actual frequencies these HD channels use (usually a cable HD box's diag screen can show this information) and map it into CATV channel numbers. If 3510 can go up to channel 135, I'd say it's pretty good. I tried Samsung SIR-T451 as QAM tuner that can only tune up to channel 125 while most of my local HD channels are mapped into 131 to 134.

However, If your local Cox is like mine, only local broadcasting channels are unscrambled. Channels like Discovery HD, InHD and ESPN HD are always scrambled and hence can not be viewed with any non-cable STB QAM tunners except those with CableCard support.

Any comments on the 3510a now regarding all the initial problems this unit had? (dropouts, hdcp error messages, etc...)

This is an amazing deal for me as it saves on separate DVD and HD tuner as well as a DVI switcher.

I plan on using a Panny AE700 with a 15 HDMI to DVI cord (bluejeancables)

Thanks!

I have been using mine for over a year now. The only problem I have had is occasionally I get an error saying the DVD is not playbale due to copyright issues (can't remember the exact message) but I just turn the unit off then back on and it plays. Picture is great and reception is great (better than my Samsung SIR-T150). Oh I have not been able to get DTS working but I did not really try too hard and everything is Dolby Digital anyway. I don't think this is my receiver but who knows.

Originally posted by clintroberts
I have been using mine for over a year now. The only problem I have had is occasionally I get an error saying the DVD is not playbale due to copyright issues (can't remember the exact message) but I just turn the unit off then back on and it plays. Picture is great and reception is great (better than my Samsung SIR-T150). Oh I have not been able to get DTS working but I did not really try too hard and everything is Dolby Digital anyway. I don't think this is my receiver but who knows.

Select Stream/PCM instead of Dolby Digital/PCM in the 3510's DVD setup menu. This will pass the DTS signal to your receiver.

Stupid question: Isn't Dolby Digital better than DTS?

I tried selecting Bitstream but could not get it to work using the coax output yet I didn't try too hard.

DTS is supposedly better due to less compression but I don't think you or I could tell a difference especially with all the other factors associated with sound (setup, room dimensions, speaker characteristics, movie encoding, etc.)

Originally posted by clintroberts
I tried selecting Bitstream but could not get it to work using the coax output yet I didn't try too hard.

DTS is supposedly better due to less compression but I don't think you or I could tell a difference especially with all the other factors associated with sound (setup, room dimensions, speaker characteristics, movie encoding, etc.)

Don't turn this into a DD vs. DTS thread please. Although it's been just about everywhere else.:D

It shouldn't make a difference as far as coax / optical. Are you sure your receiver is set up correctly?