What AVS category should I post to? The LG LST-3510A is really a unique three-in-one combination and crosses over AVS forum boundaries:

1) Dvd player with DVI-HDTV 720p, 1080i output
2) HDTV DTV Tuner
3) DVI switcher

Existing system
-------------------
Sony HS20 projector with 92" 16:9 Firehawk screen, 60" GWIII rear projection, Momitsu 880 DVI player, Samsung T160 HDTV tuner, Pioneer 47Ai. Note: DVI outputs used, DVI to HDMI cable on order for the Sony HS20.

Critical Reevaluation
-------------------------
The LG Electronics ST-3510A Dvd player caused myself a to perform a critical reassessment of digital video technology. This technology is actually better than what I thought it could be!

Edited update on 12-06-2003: added 1:1 benefit section
Edited update on 12-04-2003: Removed overly cautious section
Edited update on 11-30-2003: See new section * removed*

Hardly anyone here speaks about the quality of MPEG2 decoders. Lots of talk about de-interlacting and up-conversion. But MPEG2 decoder/output quality?

Specifically my findings indicate that the LG-3510 greatly reduces MPEG2 artifacts, including block noise as compared to my existing equipment. Block noise is a somewhat clear crunched cellophane you see all to often in digital video. I find this very irritating!

DVD and HDTV Playback
---------------------------
The following observations are true for both Dvd and HDTV television pictures. The LST-3510 improves upon my existing equipment in the following areas:

1) sharper but NOT artificially so (like the bad-boy Samsung 931)
2) improved natural detail
3) transparency - the look through quality of reduced MPEG II artifacts
4) sharp and natural as a tack. I use 720p for Dvd playback and 1080i for HDTV. ( I must still manually switch this on the front panel)
5) refinement!

Note: these observations are just my subjective opinion. I await confirmation from my fellow AVS forum members.

Dvd Color Quality
------------------
The Dvd color quality has changed too. But I'm not able to state anything but maybe less is better. For DVD the color bandwidth is a lot less than the luminance bandwidth. Perhaps my existing MPEG2 decoders overstate the color and obscure the luminance detail?

Because its picture quality refinement, I place the 3510 ahead of the Momitsu 880 and Bravo D1. Other than the player making a little bit of noise occasionally, I find NO reliability or operational issues. We have been delivered! In fact quality appears first rate...

DVI Switch
-----------
The LG-3510 ingeniously solves the common DVI switching dilemma between DVI player and HDTV receiver. No 250-800 dollar switcher needed. Only one expensive DVI cable required instead of three. A couch potatoes dream!

HDTV DTV Tuner
--------------------
No more noise when viewing the unused analog NTSC tuner. The 3510 does not contain one. The unit is similar to the Sony 300 and Zenith 520 except there is NO Direct-TV satellite tuner. Selectable variable/automatic and fixed resolution output decoding. Nice.

As for the picture quality: Even though the Jay Leno show looked great before it looks incredible now. Makes the eves pop out of your head. Motion is much clearer and natural. Sony 300 and Zenith 520 owners should be able to attest to this!

Comparison with Samsung T160 HDTV Receiver
---------------------------------------------------
Once you see better you know it. The Samsung 160 picture quality is much coarser/grainer and lacks the refinement of the 3510.

Who is LG Electronics?
------------------------
They make the Sony 200-300 and Zenith 520 HDTV receivers. They look similar to this unit.
LG just begun to distribute their own products here. Distributed by Zenith. Do they own Zenith?

Hope that is enough for now. I bought mine locally with a 20% discount with no sales tax.

12-06-03 Update
--------------------
In my original review, I had mentioned that I was using the new Sony HS20 front projector. The HS20 contains a performance enhancing mode which allows for much improved picture quality. Here at AVS forum this effect is commonly referred to as "1:1 pixel mapping".

For home theater 1:1 pixel mapping makes a dramatic improvement in black level, contrast, color quality and sharpness. Anyone would notice the difference. Its like engaging the after-burners a jet fighter. Or total eclipse, the difference being almost night and day. In summary, the gain in performance is exhilarating to behold.

Some home theater digital displays devices allow for 1:1 mapping. CRT never perform true digital 1:1 mapping as they scan in the analog domain. Most expensive DLP and LCD front projectors include it. Most rear projection displays could allow for it, but the designers have shamelessly removed it.

Computer desktop monitors always include it. Otherwise the text would be distorted and blurry. Essentially 1:1 mapping requires that every pixel pass-thru the display device and remain untouched its scaling circuitry.

At this point in time in the technology curve, full res HDTV 1920*1080i displays are just not here yet. But 1280*720 HDTV displays are common-place.

So what does this all have to do with this LG 3510 Dvd player review?

My review used the combination of the 3510 and the new Sony HS-20. I selected DVI output. I selected 1280*720 resolution. I set the HS-20 to pass-thru/1:1/ computer input.

I didn't know it at the time but I, for the first time, had just met all of the conditions necessary to engage perfect digital 1:1 mapping. I wrote the review based upon this combination. Anyone would notice a huge increase in quality, especially with a 92" projector capable of displaying tack sharp images.

In the future reviewers should state if they are using digital 1:1 mapping mode.

Let not any of this distract from the fact that the 3510 is the best reasonably priced 1280*720p (1:1 capable) player on the market.

Does this unit only scale dvd on the dvi output?

Thanks
G

Originally posted by softengr
Who is LG Electronics?

LG just begun to distribute their own products here. Distributed by Zenith. Do they own Zenith? Yes, LG owns Zenith. LG is one of the larger Korean electronics companies and they have been in the US market for a more than a few years. In the US they distribute a number of products, including a very popular line of cell phones, home appliances, TV's, computer monitors & CD/DVD drives.

"The problem is this unit will not upscale a copyright proteced DVD (e.g. Disney movies) from 480i to 720p or 1080i throught the DVI output. It will stay at 480p"
-- softengr - can you verify this ?? i don't see why the 3510a can't do this with a HDCP complaint display.

also is there any aspect controls ???

Yes, the Disney DVD problem was reported earlier by an LG engineer. However, he had an early version of the 3510A and at least one post reports no problems getting 720p/1080i out of Disney DVDs via DVI.

softengr- Could you try a Disney DVD on the 3510A and report back on the results?

Neither the HDCP compliant Samsung 931 or Denon 5900 have problems w/Disney DVDs, so there is no reason why the HDCP compliant 3510A should either.

Like all DVDs Disney uses CSS copy protection which should display on an HDCP display device from an HDCP DVD player according to the DVD Forum DVI standards for DVI & HDCP.

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
Yes, the Disney DVD problem was reported earlier by an LG engineer. However, he had an early version of the 3510A and at least one post reports no problems getting 720p/1080i out of Disney DVDs via DVI.

softengr- Could you try a Disney DVD on the 3510A and report back on the results?

Neither the HDCP compliant Samsung 931 or Denon 5900 have problems w/Disney DVDs, so there is no reason why the HDCP compliant 3510A should either.

Like all DVDs Disney uses CSS copy protection which should display on an HDCP display device from an HDCP DVD player according to the DVD Forum DVI standards for DVI & HDCP.

First let me state that my results are only for a handful of disks. Yes I have seen the message on Disney disks twice. For instance Toy Story 2 will not let me play ON A FAST LOAD ATTEMPT.

What the is h*** is a "A FAST LOAD ATTEMPT?"

HDCP communicates about every two seconds between the source and the display device. If there is no update then you will see the infamous text display and not the picture. Right?

So if I slow down a little (and watch some Disney commercials) when loading a DVD to let the two communicate, everything will play. Again everything (Disney included) I've tried WILL play.

But it sounds as if the technology needs to be refined.

BTW, Toy Story 2 looks drop-dead, knock-out orgasmic beautiful on the Sony HS-20!

Originally posted by Propel
softengr,

Please answer the queston directly. What is the picture format (480p, 720p or 1080i) of Toy Story 2 you played on the 3510A? Did you use a component or DVI connection?

I believe it is a fatal mistake for LG to even have this model on the production line if it doesn't output 720p and 1080i signal for ALL DVDs on the market.

I already stated "directly" in my original post I use 1280*720p for DVD playback. It is slightly sharper than 1920*1080i.

The only DVI signal format not selectable is 480i. 480p is selectable.

Originally posted by Propel
Thanks, softengr. Your great review (first post) sounded like a press release from LG.


LG has great products. Let LG jump in and take market share away from the sleeping giants:
Sony, Panasonic, Denon, Pioneer, JVC deserve to be "slapped silly" for not bringing out quality mass market DVI/HDMI equipped players!

Originally posted by Propel
Thanks for the effort. You just told eveyone your review was highly biased and cannot be used to help someone to make a purchase decision.

I am afraid LG is now a Sony's puppy. I see the DVI nightmare is coming for those who purchased HDTVs before 2003 (no DVI input). This product (3510A) is a perfect example:

- No 720p/1080i DVD output on component
- No DVD output on RGB

This whole DVI BS is all about what Sony and Pioneer etc. want. Video equipment should be equipped with firewire ports.
The fact is that the LG 3150 DVI picture quality and reliability are superior to that of the Bravo D1 and Momitsu 880.

I state the facts. In your anger you twist logic and take out your copy protection frustration on me. Don't shoot the messenger or fellow AVS member.

It is a fact that enraged people do not think clearly. Calm down!
We are on the same side.

Originally posted by Propel
Thanks for the effort. You just told eveyone your review was highly biased and cannot be used to help someone to make a purchase decision.

I am afraid LG is now a Sony's puppy. I see the DVI nightmare is coming for those who purchased HDTVs before 2003 (no DVI input). This product (3510A) is a perfect example:

- No 720p/1080i DVD output on component
- No DVD output on RGB

This whole DVI BS is all about what Sony and Pioneer etc. want. Video euipment should be equipped with firewire ports.

Personally, I am not sure you are correct regarding your statement "-no 720p/1080i DVD output on component and -no DVD output on RGB.

Further, firewire output on STB would benefit copying digital content, but would not be compatible with most displays. Most digital displays have component video, RGB or DVI inputs, which the LST-3510A has.

LG is an industry leader and innovator in everything they do, cell phone, white goods, STB's and Plasma displays. LG's STB's are purchased and re-sold by Hughes and Sony. Sony and Hughes are very competitive manufacturers of the same technologies. Hughes and Sony selected LG's products because they could not build the quality and features at a competitive price.

LG is on the front line of advanced digital technologies. These statements are well known facts by dealers, consumers and trade and consumer magazines. LG built the first ATSC HD tuner/PVR, the first High resolution DVD player/QAM/ATSC HD STB. LG/Zenith is the inventor of the HD technology adopted by the FCC as the industry standard.

We have sold a large quanity of LST-3510A's, however, unfortunately, due to very limited allocation, only delivered a limited quanity to date.

My own beta test and the consumers who I have delivered the units to are extremely happy with the image quality and overall operation. This is truly an incredible product, integrating a very high resolution DVD player, QAM and ATSC HD decoder in one box with DVI, RGB and component video output.

DTV TiVo Dealer, do you know if the LST-3510A simultaneously outputs 480i through composite video when it is set to output 1080i or 480p through component or DVI? In other words, is the 480i composite video always active?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Propel

I am afraid LG is now a Sony's puppy.Wrong.

This whole DVI BS is all about what Sony and Pioneer etc. want. Wrong.

Softeng,

What is your source for DVI to HDMI cable? Can you confirm that the cable works?

I have an HS-20 too, thinking about a LST 3510A.

Bob.

Originally posted by BobSalita
Softeng,

What is your source for DVI to HDMI cable? Can you confirm that the cable works?

I have an HS-20 too, thinking about a LST 3510A.

Bob.

CAB-DVI2HDMI-6MM DVI to HDMI cable 6 foot $49.00

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=2030

softengr,

Regarding your 11-30 update: I own the NEC HT1000 projector which also processes the incoming DVI picture. Since some projectors improve the incoming signal, it's hard to separate which device is doing what - but when you combine them, the result can be amazing!

Originally posted by Rich4av
softengr,

Regarding your 11-30 update: I own the NEC HT1000 projector which also processes the incoming DVI picture. Since some projectors improve the incoming signal, it's hard to separate which device is doing what - but when you combine them, the result can be amazing!

Exactly! I attempt to be very cautious in making bold statements. It is always better to say "I don't know" or admit the truth to the best of your knowledge. Otherwise the lies will catch up to you.

Also I hate coming to conclusions without knowing what is really "going on". An ill-informed decision. For competitive advantage, manufactures keep information like this "close to the chest". So we are left to guess, speculate and assume.

Now at least us two know why the NEC 1000 has been so favorably reviewed. Grin like a Cheshire cat ...

Also don't miss this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=2989826#post2989826

Propel-

DVD Forum rules permit only 480i/p from Component outputs, and prohibit any RGB output at all from DVD players. LG is a member of the Forum and is required to make players in conformance with its rules. Hence, 720p/1080i are available only from the HDCP compliant DVI output for DVDs.

Is the DVI DVI-D or DVI-I?

In other words, can you use a DVI to VGA converter on this model?

TIA,

Bill

DVI-D. It has a separate VGA (HD-15) output, but I don't think the DVD player will output through it.

Robert

The SRP for LST-3510a is 499 dollars per the Fall 2003 HDTV guide of the Consumer Electronic Association of which LG Electronics is a member. I have found dealers in California, like Paradyme in Sacramento, that have it in stock and sell it for SRP. Unfortunately, I live in Portland, OR and haven't located a LG AV dealer yet and dealers like Paradyme won't ship it to me unless they have verified that there is no local dealer.

I would suggest those interested in this wonderful device locate a local dealer (from the LG website) and save some money as well as some peace of mind.

And the problem is what? Economics 101 --- Supply vs. Demand

Originally posted by KornerKlub
And the problem is what? Economics 101 --- Supply vs. Demand

And usually supply catches up with demand in elastic markets. Informed consumers are integral for such markets and this forum is a good source for that information.

You don't see good brands like Canon, Sony, Infocus etc. release products with wide discrepencies in price. They enforce uniform pricing at least advertised pricing.

Hitachi makes a lot of LG's optical media products such a CDROM DVDROM and CDRW drives...

softengr, have you found a remote control code to use for either half of the 3510A ?

Ken

Originally posted by Al Sherwood
Hitachi makes a lot of LG's optical media products such a CDROM DVDROM and CDRW drives...

Actually that is half right. The name of the company is H-L Data System (or something like that) guess what the H and L stand for.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Actually that is half right. The name of the company is H-L Data System (or something like that) guess what the H and L stand for.

The HL stands for Hitachi Ltd.

softengr, does your 3510A go through an AUTO-DVI routine when you turn it or your TV on that results in a 480p DVI setting that you have to manually change using the buttons on the front panel ?

Ken

Originally posted by kenhdtv
softengr, does your 3510A go through an AUTO-DVI routine when you turn it or your TV on that results in a 480p DVI setting that you have to manually change using the buttons on the front panel ?

Ken

I don't think so. I remembers what it was set to last. For my Sony HS-20 or GWIII (or any non 1280*720p) devices, I want independent settings for DVD and HDTV tuner. They are not.

I want 720p output for DVD. This looks best for DVD
I want native resolution output for HDTV (480p, 720p, 1080i). This looks best for HDTV.

This combination is not a choice from the multiple resolution conversion schemes offered in the menu.

If I select 720p fixed (for everything) then HDTV is 720 too. But then (the most common) 1080i HDTV sources are downscaled to 720p by the 3510A then upscaled to the Sony HS-20 native resolution. Not optimal for me but for THOSE WITH 720p DISPLAYS THIS IS A PERFECT SOLUTION!

Same hold true for fixed 1080i...

But 1280* 720 owners should not feel to smug, as I can clearly see the extra (1388*788) resolution that the Sony provides with 1080i sources.

So I have to get a little bit of exercise and manually switch resolutions when changing from HDTV to DVD.

Since you have a problem here I will check this soon and report back.

I've got a 720p display but the 3510A isn't retaining my last DVI output setting when I turn it off. It could be the "last DVD" memory because I left a Disney Nemo DVD in it which tries to switch to 480p. It that's not it, I may have a defective unit - bummer.

Ken

Has anyone tried this dvd player with the sony 34xbr910?

Got my 3510A this morning. WOW!!!

P.S. That's all I can say. Buy it and worry about the rumors later. I am comparing to my Zenith HD-SAT520, Samsung HD931 and Sony DVP-NC665P. My display is Sanyo Z2.

Luchan, let me know if your 3510A resets your DVI output setting to 480p every time you turn it off then back on again.

Ken

My non-Disney DVD idea didn't work - it still defaults to AUTO-DVI then 480p.

Ken

kenhdtv, I will check it tomorrow. I am not at home this evening. My best guess is the problem with your display unit. The display unit sends the picture format to the set top box during the DVI handshake.

Luchan, you may be right. I disconnected my DVI-D cable and the 3510A retained the DVI output setting after I switched it off, then back on. I'm using a Sammy 56 DLP w/DVI. Anyone have any other suggestions ? Is there a SM setting in the DLP I should check ?

Ken

softngr-



HDTV DTV Tuner
--------------------
"No more noise when viewing the unused analog NTSC tuner. The 3510 does not contain one. The unit is similar to the Sony 300 and Zenith 520 except there is NO Direct-TV satellite tuner. Selectable variable/automatic and fixed resolution output decoding. Nice."

What do you mean there is no satellite tuner? I thought this unit as well as the Sony 300 could also be used as a direct tv tuner, is that not correct?

thanks

Originally posted by rreeves
softngr-



HDTV DTV Tuner
--------------------
"No more noise when viewing the unused analog NTSC tuner. The 3510 does not contain one. The unit is similar to the Sony 300 and Zenith 520 except there is NO Direct-TV satellite tuner. Selectable variable/automatic and fixed resolution output decoding. Nice."

What do you mean there is no satellite tuner? I thought this unit as well as the Sony 300 could also be used as a direct tv tuner, is that not correct?

thanks

If you require a satellite (DirectTV) tuner then this is not the unit for you. You are able to receive local HDTV broadcast from the ABC,CBS NBC networks with a regular tv antenna.

Originally posted by kenhdtv
I've got a 720p display but the 3510A isn't retaining my last DVI output setting when I turn it off. It could be the "last DVD" memory because I left a Disney Nemo DVD in it which tries to switch to 480p. It that's not it, I may have a defective unit - bummer.

Ken

For my Disney HDCP testing in the DVD forum I tested the 720p last memory setting. It remembers it fine. Make certain that you you are actually ENABLING not just seeing (720p) on the front panel! Press the right button one more time...

softengr, are you connected to a Sammy DLP ? I double-checked the 720p setting, it initially powers-up in 720p DVI, then you hear a short DVD seek but no DVD is found, then the AUTO-DVI msg is displayed and it switches to 480p - very puzzling !

Ken

Luchan,

I will be getting an Studio Experience 2HD (Z2 rebadge). I am very interested in your findings regarding DVI/720P/Disney DVDs with the Z2 as I have read a couple of disparaging posts concerning DVI/HDCP issues with the Z2. Cograts, thought you weren't getting it for a couple of weeks. (Probably couldn't wait and had them overnight it :D

Ken,
It is possible that your problem is the DVI input on the Samsung DLP.
I believe Samsung uses the PC standard. The LG is set up on the video
standard. This is mentioned in the LG manual.

The other possibility based on reading the LG manual is that you have selected either "native" or one of the "variable" settings for the resolution
on the LG. Based on the manual, it's an 8 step or so process to set the
resolution to various settings depending on the input signal.
Good Luck.
Charles

Luchan, I have a Z2 and a 3510a on order. What did you use for a DVI cable. Was it DVI-D to DVI-D? Also do the 3510A and Z2 use the same output level standards, ie can you see 0 IRE OK?

cpcat, thanks for the PC vs video DVI standard suggestion. I'll look into that one. I know I've got it set right per the manual.

Ken

Originally posted by kenhdtv
softengr, are you connected to a Sammy DLP ? I double-checked the 720p setting, it initially powers-up in 720p DVI, then you hear a short DVD seek but no DVD is found, then the AUTO-DVI msg is displayed and it switches to 480p - very puzzling !

Ken
Connected to either GWIII or Sony HS-20.

480i IS the native DVI format. Are you selecting variable format setting?(AUTO) makes it sound like you are.

Or are you setting to 720p FIXED for both DVI and HDTV?

Also note that 480i is generated to some outputs but is always converted to 480p automatically for the DVI output. Owners manual explains this.

softengr, I'm not using VARIABLE, I'm setting it to 720P (fixed) for DVI. I thought there was only one DVI setting required on the 3510A. What is the "HDTV" setting you referred to when you asked "or are you setting to 720p FIXED for both DVI and HDTV?"

Do I need to put it in "DVD mode" and set DVI output = 720P and ALSO put it in "OTA mode" and set DVI output again to 720P ? If so, that would mean there is not a common setting for the unit but a unique setting for the DVD and for the OTA tuner. This is definitely not in the DVI setup instructions on page 19 of the User's Manual.

Ken

softengr,

Can you let us know where did you get the unit from and for how much?

Thanks,
Eric

I think Luchan is so mesmeized by the 3510A and his Z2 that he has forgotten that AVS Forum exists or he is quivering with excitement and pure orgasmic delight and he is unable to type .

doug goldberg: 3510A has a single link DVI-D connector. You must not use a DVI-I cable. Either single link or dual link DVI-D cable will be fine.

kenhdtv: Yes. My 3510A resets the DVI output setting to 480p every time I turn it off then back on again. It happens to both DTV and DVD. It doesn't happen for the component connection. SAT520 doesn't have this problem.

Newsk2: I am able to output 720p or 1080i through the DVI port for all DVDs I have played so far (including Toy Story 2, X2 and LOR etc.). I can get only 480i/480p for DVD playback through the component output.

Other Notes:

(1) The DVI ouput from the 3510A gives MUCH better black details. The grayscale tracking and color decoding on my Sanyo Z2 are PERFECT. I even returned every settings to factory defaults on my Z2 and the picture looks awesome.

(2) I experienced grayscale tracking problems when I used component video output from the 3510A. There is too much red in low IREs and little red in high IREs. I think it may be related to the $60 Monster component video cable......

(3) The 3510A is able to lock in 6 more channels than the SAT520. I have a CM antenna installed on top of the roof. I live in a small town which is about 85 miles from a big city.

(4) The aspect ratio for 4:3 SD programming is normal.

Originally posted by peddagunnu
The SRP for LST-3510a is 499 dollars per the Fall 2003 HDTV guide of the Consumer Electronic Association of which LG Electronics is a member. I have found dealers in California, like Paradyme in Sacramento, that have it in stock and sell it for SRP. Unfortunately, I live in Portland, OR and haven't located a LG AV dealer yet and dealers like Paradyme won't ship it to me unless they have verified that there is no local dealer.

I would suggest those interested in this wonderful device locate a local dealer (from the LG website) and save some money as well as some peace of mind.

LG website was no help finding a dealer. I did manage to find an online dealer. jr.com sells it for a good price and ships for free.

Luchan, thanks for the feedback on your 3510A resetting to 480p with your Z2. That suggests it is probably a 3510A bug versus a bug with my Sammy DLP TV. I have a call into JFerg (LG expert) to see if there is a way to disable the AUTO-DVI (LG calls it EZDVI) power-up routine. It is very annoying to have to manually change the DVI output to 720p after every power-up using the buttons on the front panel (remote can't change it). Leaving it on doesn't help if you don't leave your TV always on.

If you figure a way to avoid the reset, please post it and I'll do the same.

Ken

Originally posted by dozens
LG website was no help finding a dealer. I did manage to find an online dealer. jr.com sells it for a good price and ships for free.

You should go to the Zenith web site. LG doesn't have an up to date dealer database.

Originally posted by Luchan

Other Notes:

(3) The 3510A is able to lock in 6 more channels than the SAT520. I have a CM antenna installed on top of the roof. I live in a small town which is about 85 miles from a big city.


What is a CM antenna ? I just ordered the 3510a and plan to return my comcast HD STB but I also plan to add an antenna for OTA HD channels. Anyway, I am just now getting up to speed on OTA HD. I am about 60 miles from Boston so will need a pretty strong antenna and would like to put it in my attic instead of outside. Any recommandations ?

CM = Channel Master I believe

CM = ChannelMaster, I use a CM-4221 but check antennaweb.org for your street address specifics.

Ken

I hope this is not too off topic. I was looking at a big bowtie antenna 4228 probably with a preamp and putting it in my attic.

At 60 miles, you may need to go outdoors, but you should be able to get the NH stations (ABC, PBS) pretty easily.

Originally posted by fenwayfan
softengr,

Can you let us know where did you get the unit from and for how much?

Thanks,
Eric

Try Google.com or Yahoo.com and search for LST-3510A

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
Try Google.com or Yahoo.com and search for LST-3510A Not very many hits that way... and only on retailer - that sells it $100 above SRP... Thanks, but I can search more and/or wait if I have to.

Actually, someone else suggested trying j and r dot com. It's listed at SRP, but they quoted a bit lower over the phone. I don't know enough about this place to place the order or reccomend. I think this is a B&M purchase if I decide to get one.

Edit: J and R is a B&M with a web site... just not so convenient for a Californian :D

laserland in san jose, ca has them on their web site. haven't called them to find out how much they are.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
Try Google.com or Yahoo.com and search for LST-3510A
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Not very many hits that way... and only on retailer - that sells it $100 above SRP... Thanks, but I can search more and/or wait if I have to.

Actually, someone else suggested trying j and r dot com. It's listed at SRP, but they quoted a bit lower over the phone. I don't know enough about this place to place the order or reccomend. I think this is a B&M purchase if I decide to get one.

Edit: J and R is a B&M with a web site... just not so convenient for a Californian

-----------------------------------------------------------------
I bought a dig cam from them and got it as scheduled. Had to call to get a lower price but my experience with them was very positive.

I spoke with GUS, an LG CSR, last week about the 3510A. He told me the current MSRP is $599, but they expected it to street for closer to $500 This will probably happen when they become more available.

MSRP is $599 and the LG lowest advertise price (LAP) is $499, well... at least this is what value electronics told me over the phone.

If you use an AMEX Costco Business card you could buy for $599 and pricematch to any internet price for next 60 days. Upto $250 rebate from AMEX. I use it for these situations, it really works. I buy locally and pricematch on the internet.

jandr.com has it for 499 with free shipping. Best deal I've seen so far.

LG pays the shipping because LG does not drop ship. So do many other manufacturers. They all offer free UPS ground shipping.

Loaded my 3510A with Raiders of the Lost Ark last night - connected via 720p DVI to my Sammy 56 DLP and got the invalid DVI device warning box. Tried to restart it several times but no luck. Switched to component to watch the movie, but after it was over, tried DVI again and it worked ! Haven't been able to re-create the error with the Raiders movie yet.

I have basically confirmed I do have the "reset bug" where my last output setting is lost when I turn the unit off and back on. My reset bug is associated with the DVI setting only. I have read here that someone else has the reset bug with their component output setting. My movie glitch mentioned above may be related to the "reset bug" I have. I'll find out more next week when I get some feedback from the LG experts.

Ken

Ken, do you know what firmware level you have on your Sammy? (or what the date is on the back if you don't want to risk voiding your warranty) I seem to remember reading that older revs have issues with what resolutions are reported over DVI, which is why there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth in the HTPC forum for a while... :)

I've got a 567 v302, and I'm mighty tempted by this one, now that the honeymoon is over with my 931HD. The tuner is icing on the cake.

I'm 567 v306 Oct2003. It's not a Sammy issue as someone else reported a DVI reset problem but with a different brand DVI display.

It is nice to get all the major networks (Dallas) with the OTA tuner as my wife watches network TV the most and the SD quality through Comcast was marginal.

Ken


Ken

Ken,

Was the reset bug reported by one of the "Big Bad Three"? There are those who think they should be taken with a grain of salt. I'm on the fence.

Newk2, MikeinSac reported the component reset over in the DVD Players forun (new LG DVI player thread) and Luchan also reported the DVI reset (connected to a Z2 projector) in this thread.

Ken

Does the DVD player take different media (DVD-/+R/RW,CD etc.) and Will it play other file types (music, photos, slide shows, mp3, whatever)?

Thanks,

Joe M.

Joe,

This is what LG lists for this model on the specifications page: DVD, Audio-CD, CD-R/RW, Video-CD, SVCD, HDCD, MP3, Photo CD (JPEG). Current owners will have to speak to DVD-/+R/RW.

I know DVD-R works

According to LG, the OTA tuner in the 3510A is not the same as in the Zenith HD520; it is very similar to the OTA tuner in the LSS-3200A.

As of 10am today, J&R has 8 pieces left.

Just ordered one from J&R.

Does it come with the DVI cable ???

No. It does not come with a DVI cable. You need to get a single or dual link DVI-D cable (NOT DVI-I). You can get one from eBay for less than $30. You will love the unit.

Luchan,

I have on order: a Studio Experience 2HD, an LG LST-3510A and a 10m Lindy DVI cable. As I sit here quivering in anticipation, realizing that owners can only share so much, I find that I only wish to hear more and more.

Maybe I should order some Depends (you think they have them on e-bay?). I'm really hoping that they would come in useful.

Champing at the bit!

Does anybody know what IRE level scale the LG outputs on its DVI output? In other words, has anybody experienced any crushing of blacks? This is of particular interest with the Sanyo Z2 which I will soon own. Thanks.

Steve

The 3510A outputs a full IRE levels through the DVI based on the step grayscale patter display from the AVIA. I can see clearly see every IRE step. It works great with the Z2. The component output is poor though.

Hi,

Can someone determine if you can play Digital Video Essentials, or any of the earlier Video Essential/AVIA disks, at 1080i or 720p through the component outputs. I'm not familiar if these disks are copy protected or not. I only have a component TV right now, but would consider buying this box over the 3100A if I can use it to help calibrate 720p and 1080i properly.

Originally posted by GarryM
Hi,

Can someone determine if you can play Digital Video Essentials, or any of the earlier Video Essential/AVIA disks, at 1080i or 720p through the component outputs. I'm not familiar if these disks are copy protected or not. I only have a component TV right now, but would consider buying this box over the 3100A if I can use it to help calibrate 720p and 1080i properly.

Yes, you can.

Thanks Luchan for the quick reply. Guess I'm going 3510A shopping.

I called LG Customer Support this mroning. LG acknowledged the problem but said the DVI reset was a standard feature of this receiver/DVD player. There will be no fix for this in the future. I consider this as a major bug in the firmware as LG is the only one that resets the DVI to 480p when a DVI handshake occurs. I am surprised that LG claimed this as a standard feature of DVI handshake.

Very disappointed with LG!!!!

Description of the problem: Every time when I turn the TV/Projector/3510A off/on or switch from component to DVI on my TV/Projector, the DVI resolution on the 3510A resets to 480p. I have to change it back to 720p or 1080i by pushing the buttons many times on the front panel. I have a Sanyo PLV-Z2 projector and the DVI reset does not happen with the Zenith SAT520.

Robert at **************** got me on the phone with the LG Product Mgr yesterday to discuss the DVI reset issue. I should get some feedback by the end of the week so don't give up yet.

Since it's obviously firmware controlled, it seems like a firmware update could either fix the bug or allow you to disable their "EZDVI" feature via a User Menu option.

Ken

I picked up one of these locally in Dallas last night and so far it is amazing. Great picture, great sound and all features work as described. Let me know if there are any specific questions I can answer and I will try to help.

Singersay, does your output setting get reset every time you turn the unit off then back on again. When I have my 3510A set to DVI-720p and then turn it off and back on, it briefly displays AUTO DVI then defaults the output setting to DVI-480p. I then have to manually change it back to DVI-720p using the buttons on the front of the unit. I call it the "reset bug".

Also, who had it in Dallas ?

Ken

Yes please, where did you find it in Dallas? My JandR.com order is on backorder and my TV arrives tonight. I won't have anything to plug into it! :(

Originally posted by kenhdtv
Singersay, does your output setting get reset every time you turn the unit off then back on again. When I have my 3510A set to DVI-720p and then turn it off and back on, it briefly displays AUTO DVI then defaults the output setting to DVI-480p. I then have to manually change it back to DVI-720p using the buttons on the front of the unit. I call it the "reset bug".

Also, who had it in Dallas ?

Ken


Ken - My 3510 does not reset to 480i when each time I turn it on. I have it connected with a DVI and audio cables only. Perhaps yours has component and/or s-video connected that is causing this?

I picked mine up at Home Theater Store on Preston/635. They had 2 left as of last night (one was open box - they opened it to see if it came with a DVI cable)

Does this mean a user will need the converter box from the cable company to unscramble the signal before it can be routed through the LST-3510A's QAM Tuner?

Thanks in advance.

OK now i have my report on the 3510a on my Sony 34XBR800.


First the PQ of the DTV:

Awesome...... very nice. I also own a Zenith 520 and it looks the same but still great.

Second, the reception of the DTV:

Great, its true that you can get more channels then the 520. I got 2 more channels added and a centimeter more reception of PBS(13-1 in the new york area)

Third, DVD pq-720p

I looks great. Better then the hd931(which i owned before). Connected only through DVI and Coaxial Cable. Nothing else. Saw Star Wars Episode 2 and the Two Towers and they both looked excellent.


Overall, Impressive piece even for a Direct-View tv like mine. 34xbr800 handled it like a champ. I recommend it.

Originally posted by MickFick
Does this mean a user will need the converter box from the cable company to unscramble the signal before it can be routed through the LST-3510A's QAM Tuner?

Thanks in advance.

No, if the signal is scrambled, only the the box from cable co will work. The box does not convert to unscrambled QAM signal again.

I have a Zenith 420 and decided to upgrade to the 3510A. I just received the 3510A and for some reason it is not detecting the HD video channels when I run the EZ Scan (It is picking up the audio QAM channels). I am running the same EZ Scan that I ran on the 420 (CADTV STD).

Other than a defective unit, can anyone think of why it would not be detecting the video channels?

Did you search in all 3 modes? There's std and two others for CATV on the
LG 3510a.
Charles

Originally posted by luv2run
I have a Zenith 420 and decided to upgrade to the 3510A. I just received the 3510A and for some reason it is not detecting the HD video channels when I run the EZ Scan (It is picking up the audio QAM channels). I am running the same EZ Scan that I ran on the 420 (CADTV STD).

Other than a defective unit, can anyone think of why it would not be detecting the video channels?

The 3510A receives QAM on CATV while the 420 received 8VSB on CATV.

Currently, I have Comcast's Motorola HD box, Replay 5080, Samsung P231 DVD, B&K AV901 on a Panny CT-34wdm60...Once the TV is almost 3 years old, I don't have DVI...I'm looking to get either the LG 3510A to drop Comcast and for a new DVD player, the LG 3410A to drop Replay (tired of HD interface problems) and Comcast, or the Denon 2900 once I would like DVD-A/SACD as well. Does the LG3510A output above 480p with component? Or the 2900 for that matter? Should I wait for HD PVR? Thanks

I'v had my 60" Sony KFWE610 for a week and a half now and my LST-3510 is due in on Tuesday from J&R. By the way, if you call instread of ordering on line the price is $449. I have been looking for the tweak explanations for the WE610 so that I get familiar with it. The AVIA disk should arrive the same day so I think that on Wed. I will need a full pot of coffee to stay awake. DVI-D cable arrived yesterday, so by 6:00 PM next week Tue I will enter the HDTV world.

Thanks for the heads up about the price. I went ahead and placed my order. There are 19 people before me and the sales guy told me 1 to 2 weeks before they get more or maybe before they get to me. Total was 449.88 free shipping

Inventory supply is easing up a little. We shipped a large quantity on Friday and many more this week.

Originally posted by Blackforge
Thanks for the heads up about the price. I went ahead and placed my order. There are 19 people before me and the sales guy told me 1 to 2 weeks before they get more or maybe before they get to me. Total was 449.88 free shipping

I wouldn't want to wait 2 weeks to save $50. I will get it from who ever has the unit in stock.

I got my 3510 on Friday. It is acting strange in DVD mode. I have a 4:3 Sony TV that does the hi-def 16:9 squeeze when gets a 480p or higher signal. When I watch an OTA HDTV channel on the 3510 everything is fine - the TV automatically goes in squeeze mode, but when I watch a DVD the TV some how does not recognize the hi def source and I have to force the squeeze mode. I have the 3510 set for 1080i out mode and I am using the component outputs.

I have not played with many modes yets. Has anyone seen anything similar?

Thanks, Andy

Originally posted by aweitzner
I have the 3510 set for 1080i out mode and I am using the component outputs.

I have not played with many modes yets. Has anyone seen anything similar?

Thanks, Andy

It's been well documented in these threads that the 3510A has issues scaling dvds to 720p/1080i on the component/VGA outputs due to copy protection. It's not a problem with the 3510A, it's just not designed to do it.

I believe to take full advantage of the 3510A with dvds, you need the DVI connection with HDCP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't read any issues when scaling dvds to 720p/1080i and using the DVI-HDCP connection.

Steve

What is your ASPECT RATIO setting (Set by Program, Normal, Wide, etc) when you load the DVD ? What does your TV do with a 4:3 program you receive using the 3510 OTA tuner (fills the screen or black bars on sides) ?

Ken

Originally posted by stephenfrancis
It's been well documented in these threads that the 3510A has issues scaling dvds to 720p/1080i on the component/VGA outputs due to copy protection. It's not a problem with the 3510A, it's just not designed to do it.

I believe to take full advantage of the 3510A with dvds, you need the DVI connection with HDCP. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't read any issues when scaling dvds to 720p/1080i and using the DVI-HDCP connection.

I thought this issue was particular to protected DVDs (i.e. Disney). Anyway I changed the output to 480p and surprise, it appears that the my Sony XBR450 does not recognize the signal (from OTA or DVD) to go into auto squeeze mode.

Originally posted by kenhdtv
What is your ASPECT RATIO setting (Set by Program, Normal, Wide, etc) when you load the DVD ?


Wide

Originally posted by kenhdtv
What does your TV do with a 4:3 program you receive using the 3510 OTA tuner (fills the screen or black bars on sides) ?


When the 3510 is in 1080i mode, the picture is always 16:9 with black bars on top and bottom, so a 4:3 program results in a window box (bars on all sides).

In Variable 2 mode it is the same unless I am receiving an SDTV sub-channel - then it fills the screen.

I just searced the forum on the XBR450 and realized that the 480p squeeze issue is well documented. Before the 3510, I was using an Interlaced DVD player and the HDV420 for OTA, so the scenario never occured.

Without DVI, I am thinking about returning the 3510 :(

Andy

I also saw a really cool bug on 3510 last night. I switched from OTA to DVD and while the DVD was playing, the last 15 seconds of closed caption from the OTA signal kept looping on the bottom of the screen over and over again. I tried turning CC on and off but I had to power down the 3510 to eliminate the problem.

Andy

Hey guys! I was going to cancel my order forthis player but went ahead and got it to check out the Cable and OTA tuners. I hooked it up to my Runco via RGB to check out the tuners. Just for the heck of it, I decided to put in the new COLDPLAY LIVE DVD and viola it is currently playing as I type this. I am going to check out other DVD's including Disney ones.

zmeister,

Any news on playing other DVD's via RGB to your Runco? CRT projector owners want to know.

Thanks!

Bill Dempsey

I was up last nite doing some testing and found that the results are mixed.

Most of the discs, I've tested so far did NOT play. The player would not even read Pirates.... Some discs would only go to the studio logo and then stop and show the error message on the screen reading "the disc will not play on RGB out please try component". Others would make as far as the menu but when you tried to start the movie or choose a scene the error message came up.

However some did play but I could not find any pattern as to why for some of them. For example T3 yes,T2 no. LOTR-TT yes, LOTR-FOR no. Blade2 yes, Blade no. Matrix-Reloaded yes, Matrix no.(sequels?) Black Hawk Down also worked. I tried to see if this was somehow studio related but couldn't come to any conclusion. Most of my concert DVD's or music videos played as well. Some of you will be happy to know that all of the VIVID titles I checked played. ;)

I also tried to run component through my transcoder but the player automatically swithched to 480P. I am going to check several more DVD's later this evening and maybe some copied ones as well.

I got my 3510A today. The ATSC tuner was completely dead. After initially outputting thru DVI, it stopped. (Unit says EZ DVI, so it was shaking hands w/my HDCP compliant display device.) And it won't hold chosen res on DTV or DVD when powered down, always going to 480p. My impression is that it's defective.

Robert,

Are you sure your 3510A says EZ DVI? Mine says AUTO DVI. Sounds like we have different firmware on our 3510A. Does the ATSC tuner output any signal through the component? What is your display?

Assuming it is possible to have different firmware on different 3510A's, is it possible we will be able to update firmware?

The 3510 has a serial service port on the back but I read somewhere that user updates won't be supported - only factory-serviced updates.

Ken

I bought a Pioneer DVD burner A06 today. I burned 3 DVDs (Memorex 4X, DVD-R, DVD+R and DVD+RW). All of them played on the 3510A perfectly. I also tried some old SVCDs I burned in the past. No problem at all.

Luchan-

Yes, it says EZ DVI like the Zenith SAT520, not AUTO DVI. It looks like a very early Serial # so it may be early production/ware.

The EZ Scan yielded 0 ATSC stations via DVI, when it worked, after several tries. I did not try component out since it was obviously a dead tuner problem, not an output choice problem. (Same antenna feed ran successful Scans in Zenith SAT520[DVI] and HD230[component]; direct feed w/no spltting.)

My display is the HDCP compliant InFocus 7200. No problem w/DVI in w/HDCP compliant Zenith SAT520 or Samsung HD931 DVD. With 3510A, 7200 says "Searching for Signal" after 3510A says EZ DVI.

Going back to J&R for credit.

Bob

Originally posted by Robert Whitehead
Luchan-

Yes, it says EZ DVI like the Zenith SAT520, not AUTO DVI. It looks like a very early Serial # so it may be early production/ware.

The EZ Scan yielded 0 ATSC stations via DVI, when it worked, after several tries. I did not try component out since it was obviously a dead tuner problem, not an output choice problem. (Same antenna feed ran successful Scans in Zenith SAT520[DVI] and HD230[component]; direct feed w/no spltting.)

My display is the HDCP compliant InFocus 7200. No problem w/DVI in w/HDCP compliant Zenith SAT520 or Samsung HD931 DVD. With 3510A, 7200 says "Searching for Signal" after 3510A says EZ DVI.

Going back to J&R for credit.

Bob

Sounds like the 3510A from J&R may be defective early production units.

hmmm.... my 3510 from j & r also said EZ DVI... someone has one locally... i may swing buy and give it a shot...

My wife told me that while she was playing a DVD this afternoon, the unit got extremely hot and the player kept skipping. She took out the disc, cleaned it and put it back. This didn't stop the skipping. She then put the disc in a Sony DVD player upstairs. It played fine.

Based on my won experience and feedbacks from other owners, LG has serious QC problems for the 3510A. The customer support is poor. They refused to fix the AUTO DVI reset problem, which is obviously LG's fault. Now I am having the temperature ans skipping problems.

I dare say that you are wrong in the statement of "They refused to fix the AUTO DVI reset problem"

I currently have a 3510A backorder'd at J&R for hookup to a Sanyo Z2. I'm starting to get a little worried about this purchase. Are there folks out there that highly recommend the unit? I will be using both the DVD player and OTA HDTV tuner through DVI. Thanks.

Steve

This was what LG customer support said:

"The DVI Auto Reset is a standard feature of the 3510A. There will be no fix for this. Contact your display manufacturer."

I asked her why my display didn't have the problem with the Zenith SAT520 (LG owns Zenith). Her response was:

"I understand."

I think what she really understood was that LG got my money and I am on my own.

Well I called j and r today.. and they got their shipment in so anyone who has one on order should be getting theirs sometime soon. So we'll see if this batch has problems.

Originally posted by Luchan
This was what LG customer support said:

"The DVI Auto Reset is a standard feature of the 3510A. There will be no fix for this. Contact your display manufacturer."

I asked her why my display didn't have the problem with the Zenith SAT520 (LG owns Zenith). Her response was:

"I understand."

I think what she really understood was that LG got my money and I am on my own.

They are working on the issue.

so all in all, is everyone happy with this unit?
How is the dvd pq, as compaired to a faroudja chipset unit??
any thoughts as to if the DVI will benifit a RPTV,(mits)? I am using a zenith 420 for ota now, and a e30 pany for dvd, is this worth the upgrade, I can still return the 420, from CC and save 2 component inputs and use the dvi but it'll cost me a few more bills

also can anone explaine this auto reset thing a little clearer, just by turning on/off the unit if I want to watch ota, I have to get up and set it to 1080 again? is this correct? or is it just for the dvd player?

any thoughts?

I've had one of these units for a couple of weeks now and really am happy
with it. About the only criticism I have is that it occasionally has problems locking signals w/dvi when the source changes resolution i.e. using "native"
mode or another variable mode sometimes will result in problems syncing when the source format changes. If you leave it on a fixed resolution it doesn't have a problem. I do not have the "reset" problem and it will stay on the selected resolution after power up/down.

The DVD picture is excellent (I prefer 480p over dvi). I recently put an antenna up and am receiving CBS HD as well. This is from a station 50 mi.
away and the signal is 2/3 with only occ. audio drop-outs. As far as the PQ
for HD all I can say is WOW! Of course, this is my first experience with HD.

I think this unit is worth twice the price I paid for it.

The Good:

1. Very good ATSC tuner. Picked up all 10 OTA DTV channels (including 5 HDTV) channels broadcast in Portland using an 10 year old table top UHF antenna. HDTV picture quality is stunning.

2. Was able to latch on to around 100 QAM unscrambled digital cable channels (majority of them music) from my Comcast basic cable connection that I forced to subscribe to inorder to get broadband internet. These include the the local HDTV channels with which Comcast currently has agreements with and ESPN (digital standard def, not HD). However the 3510A has only one antenna output so one has to manually change the co-axial antenna/cable and rescan each time. I am mostly interested in the prime-time OTA and the PBS broadcasts so I use this option very infrequently.

3. Was able to play all the DVDs that I have tried so far in 1080i/720p using the YPbPr component connections using the cable that came with the 3510A. The picture quality is simply stunning. I am recommending everybody who owns a Z2 with the 3510A watch the documentary "Winged Migration" which is available in rental stores. Out of this world scenery.

The Bad:

1. The output mode (720p/1080i) is not sticky for playing DVDs. The annoying thing is once one switches outputs DVI/RGB/YPbPr one has to wait for a few seconds before it puts up the option change the modes 480i/native/480p/720p/1080i. This takes about ten seconds to cycle through since only one console button controls these output and mode changes. I can live with it for now since I have to go to the STB to load the DVD anyways.

2. It does not provide many options to change aspect ratios when the OTA signal has a broadcast flag set.

The Ugly:

1. 3510A's DVI connection (I use a CablesToGo 5m cable) did not work when playing any of the DVDs that I have tried so far. The HDCP handshake between the Z2 and 3510A fails very quickly (even for 480p and 480i) and I get an error message saying that I have to use the component output or connect to a HDCP compliant display. The Z2's input 2 is set to RGB AV (HDCP compliant) and not the RGB digital PC connection mode. So I have done all I can from the Z2 end to make the handshake work. The DVI output works fine for OTA as well as for digital cable. The difference in picture quality between component outputs and DVI for HDTV programming as well as the snatches of picture that I can see on DVDs before the handshake fails is not very perceptible (at least to the naked eye considering a 10 second switching delay and a white wall for a screen). I am playing phone tag with LG support on this issue right now. I will try to talk them into telling me how to get at the internal menus if I can.

I'm in the same boat with my Z2 / 3510A combo. I cannot get the Z2 to handshake with the 3510 via DVI. One user (Luchan) has reported to have this working. The only difference I can tell in our setups is he used a dual-link DVI-D cable. I used a single link DVI-D cable from Ram Electronics. My Z2 is currently at Sanyo to look at this. I suspect that they will not find any problems and that someone LG or Sanyo will need both units in a lab to diagnose the issue. I took my 3510 to a local retailer and the DVD's played fine with two Pioneer Plasma's that had HDCP DVI ports.

Originally posted by doug goldberg
I'm in the same boat with my Z2 / 3510A combo. I cannot get the Z2 to handshake with the 3510 via DVI. One user (Luchan) has reported to have this working. The only difference I can tell in our setups is he used a dual-link DVI-D cable. I used a single link DVI-D cable from Ram Electronics. My Z2 is currently at Sanyo to look at this. I suspect that they will not find any problems and that someone LG or Sanyo will need both units in a lab to diagnose the issue. I took my 3510 to a local retailer and the DVD's played fine with two Pioneer Plasma's that had HDCP DVI ports.

My DVI cable (http://store.yahoo.com/digitally-unique/29527.html) is dual link too but my experience is not the same as Luchan's. I plan to connect my Z2 to a friends Samsung 931 which has a HDCP compliant DVI output and use my cable to see if it has a problem. If it doesn't then the handshake failure is probably some weird timing issue between Z2 and 3510A as you surmise. If there is still a problem then I can narrow it down to the cable or the Z2 (I still don't know how I will secure a different cable though if it comes to that).

I am guessing since firmware upgrades to DVD players are more frequent and easier to do, convincing LG to fix this problem might be the more productive.

I just spoke to Sanyo tech support. As I anticipated they report no problem with the unit. Its winging its way back. After detailed discussion with the tech support staff (Dan), who was very nice to deal with, it became obvious that they have no real means to test HDCP compatibility on the bench. They can stimulate with DVI but not DVI with an HDCP flag. and handshake. As a result they have agreed to pass this issue to the product manager and hopefully to Japan. I'll also make it a point to stop by Sanyo at CES and raise the issue as well. Just out of pure curiosity I've ordered the same DVI cable that Luchan reported as working and will test when it arrives. For all you considering a Z2 / 3510 combo don't count on the DVI / HDCP working. Perhaps LG will get interested in this. Curious to know if any other HDCP source has worked with the Z2.

Curious to know if any other HDCP source has worked with the Z2. [/B] My Momitsu V880 is supposed to be HDCP compliant but it wouldn't surprise me if their implementation is unusual. The unit came to me with Macrovision disabled and set region free, not your industry standard. For whatever reason I can't sync my Z2 with the Momitsu when the Momitsu is set at 720p, so that could be an HDCP handshake issue. I cancelled my order for the 3510A this morning. I still think it's a great combination for me if it works, but unfortunately it doesn't seem to work, at least the great majority of the time as things stand. I will watch these threads closely, hoping that LG and/or Sanyo or both sort out the problem and if they do, I will be ready to jump on the 3510A. Meantime, I will live without HDTV and DTV.

Dan

I did get the HDCP warning meesage three times in the past 2 weeks. I was able to clear it by powering down and up the 3510A unit.

I had the DVD disc skipping problem when the unit got too hot. The 3510A was sitting on the top of my AV receiver. I move it to a different sopt and it stays cool after 3 hours of DVD playing.

If you have a Sanyo Z2, remember never power down the 3510A when the Z2 is on. The Z2 will freeze up (remote and all keys on the Z2 panel will stop working) if it loses the DVI connection.

(1) Always power down the Z2 before the 3510A.
(2) Always power up the 3510A before the Z2.

I never had these crazy problems when I used Zenith SAT520 and Samsung HD931 with the Z2.

At the official HDCP website (http://www.digital-cp.com/) it says:

"HDCP is a specification developed by Intel Corporation to protect digital entertainment content across the DVI interface. The HDCP specification provides a robust, cost-effective and transparent method for transmitting and receiving digital entertainment content to DVI-compliant digital displays."

Robust! That's a laugh. Seems like nothing but a PITA. I wonder what brought on this monster. Maybe Sony's large investments in the movie industry? Just a guess.

I just got the LG LST-3510A today. It is not connected to the final CM 4248 antenna yet. The performance of the tuner is nothing but outstanding.

With less than 10% of the signal I was able to lock into stations without pixelation, freezes, or audio drops.

It will lock stations with 1% signal strength (with dropouts)...

Either the signal strength bar on this unit is mis-calibrated or the new generation tuner is awesome! I will post more results when the final antenna configuration is setup.

I have some of these boxes available in Dallas to anyone who wants one before the holidays. My store is Home Theater Store, at 635 and Preston. If you need help, I'd be glad to. Thanks guys!

New here so please don't flame!

Chad

Just got my unit :)

Questions for people with comcast.
1) What kind of cable band do they use (STD, HRC, IRC)
2) What channels numbers on 3510a for HD channels (802, 805, 807, 825, 849, etc).

Originally posted by Muse
At the official HDCP website (http://www.digital-cp.com/) it says:

"HDCP is a specification developed by Intel Corporation to protect digital entertainment content across the DVI interface. The HDCP specification provides a robust, cost-effective and transparent method for transmitting and receiving digital entertainment content to DVI-compliant digital displays."

Robust! That's a laugh. Seems like nothing but a PITA. I wonder what brought on this monster. Maybe Sony's large investments in the movie industry? Just a guess.

Well, you're misinterpreting what they meant by 'robust'. See, they meant that the copy protection is robust because any time there is a glitch, it disables the interface. They didn;t mean that the interface is glitch free. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Mac The Knife
Well, you're misinterpreting what they meant by 'robust'. See, they meant that the copy protection is robust because any time there is a glitch, it disables the interface. They didn;t mean that the interface is glitch free. :rolleyes: If that's what they meant, you're right, I misinterpreted it. To me, robust means it's not weak and apt to break down and crumble. I took the failure of the two presumably HDCP compliant interfaces to achieve a handshake as a weakness. If robust means that the interface breaks down any time something's a teeny weeny bit out of whack, then they may indeed have an ironclad interface in THAT nomenclature. Nobody can get through it without the chalice of the realm, the very seal of the domain, an affidavit of loyalty to the sovereign realm. Damn, that's good encryption!!! If it breaks, it MUST be good, nay ROBUST!. :D:D:D:D:D

Originally posted by Muse
...Damn, that's good encryption!!! If it breaks, it MUST be good, nay ROBUST!. :D:D:D:D:D

EXACTLY! :D ;)

quote:
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Originally posted by Muse
...Damn, that's good encryption!!! If it breaks, it MUST be good, nay ROBUST!.
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EXACTLY! :D ;) [/QUOTE]

Well, actually I was trying to be funny with that homegrown Monty Python skit. I write software for a living and to me, "robust" means software that does what it's supposed to do and does it well. Equally, it means that when the software doesn't do what the user expects, it informs the user why it has failed and does so accurately and in a helpful, sensible manner. As well, in the case of software, it doesn't do any significant damage of any kind (e.g. to data and program or system settings). Now, in the case of the handshake problem between the Z2 and the 3510A, clearly something's wrong. If it's not the fault of the HDCP specification, then it has to be the fault of at least one of the implementations - the Z2's or the 3510A's.

One of the devices thinks the other is not HDCP compliant. It's not clear to me which is at fault. Of course, it could be both. I just don't know the issues and it may only be found out when they are tested together. However, something here is NOT robust! My experience with the Momitsu and the Z2, and the experiences I've been reading about with the Z2 and the 3510A (all supposedly HDCP compliant) do NOT inspire confidence. Quite the contrary. That is antithetical to the meaning of robust, in my view. I suspect that HDCP is a difficult specification to implement in a trouble-free manner.

Yeah I realized you were trying to be funny. So was I (note the big grin and the wink). However, it is amusing to wonder what they were refering to as robust.

BTW, if you think the Z2/3510 problems are bad, did you know that the DWIN unit that has separate processor and projector with a DVI-HDCP link between them had HDCP problems? If a single company has problems making two of their own boxes work together, then you can imagine how hard it is for different companies.

I'm also a software engineer. Seems like a lot of people on this forum are engineers.

I also suspect that the HDCP spec at fault. I suspect that it is full of timing issues that are impossible to meet under all conditions. When DVI/HDMI finally becomes a commonly used interface and millions of people can't get their TV to work, then you'll probably see a bunch of class action lawsuits.

Computer engineer here. I guess we are the only ones dumb enough to try and adopt new technologies as soon as they come out :-)

Seriously, I have cancelled my order for the 3510A due to HDCP handshaking issues with the Sanyo Z2. I don't think I'm ready to deal with this. Is there anybody out there who has had any luck between the Z2 and the 3510A. I'm talking about confirmed 720p/1080i through the DVI port? Not 480p that was mistaken for 720p/1080i. Also, does the HDCP handshaking affect only DVDs played on the LG? I've seen posts about good luck with the HDTV tuner. Is that through the DVI port also?

Steve

I've got the 3510A and a Z2. I sent my Z2 to Sanyo because I have been unable to make DVI work with DVD (HDCP) @ 720P. It works sporatically at 480P via DVI. The OTA tuner works flawlesly at 720P via DVI and looks VERY nice. I'm running DVD at 720P via component which is also quite good. Sanyo has contacted Japan about this issue and has promised to attempt to resolve this. LG to date has been unresponsive and in fact the women I spoke to was clueless. I'm suprised she could get herself dressed in the morning. The 3510 is a great little box for the $$ but I'm guessing it or the Z2 will need some firmware updates to resolve this issue.

Originally posted by stephenfrancis
Computer engineer here. I guess we are the only ones dumb enough to try and adopt new technologies as soon as they come out :-)

Seriously, I have cancelled my order for the 3510A due to HDCP handshaking issues with the Sanyo Z2. I don't think I'm ready to deal with this. Is there anybody out there who has had any luck between the Z2 and the 3510A. I'm talking about confirmed 720p/1080i through the DVI port? Not 480p that was mistaken for 720p/1080i. Also, does the HDCP handshaking affect only DVDs played on the LG? I've seen posts about good luck with the HDTV tuner. Is that through the DVI port also?

Steve The HDTV is also through the DVI port and by all reports is terrific. We are in the same boat - cancelled the 3510A order because I didn't want to deal with the likely issues with my Z2. I'll watch the threads and maybe bite if things clear up somehow. Luchan is the only person (to my knowledge) who claims success at 720p through DVI with these machines in DVD and HDTV and he seems to know what he's doing.

Originally posted by stephenfrancis
Computer engineer here. I guess we are the only ones dumb enough to try and adopt new technologies as soon as they come out :-)


Guilty as charged. I am a Software Engineer too. See my experience with the Z2 and 3510a that I have posted to this thread.


Seriously, I have cancelled my order for the 3510A due to HDCP handshaking issues with the Sanyo Z2. I don't think I'm ready to deal with this. Is there anybody out there who has had any luck between the Z2 and the 3510A. I'm talking about confirmed 720p/1080i through the DVI port? Not 480p that was mistaken for 720p/1080i. Also, does the HDCP handshaking affect only DVDs played on the LG? I've seen posts about good luck with the HDTV tuner. Is that through the DVI port also?


The 3510A works fine as a HDTV ATSC OTA tuner as well as a QAM cable tuner and outputs great video through the DVI output without any problems, in my experience. It plays DVDs in 720p/1080i through the component outputs. Am trying to persuade LG to come up with a firmware fix (or a current workaround). LG tech-support is available only to authorized service centers and us poor customers have to bulldoze our way past a wall of customer service imbeciles.

I received my 3510A from J&R today and it spent a grand total of 15 minutes hooked up to my system before I boxed it back up. The HDTV tuner just does not perform well in my setup. I was replacing a Sony HD200 for 2 reasons: 1. I cancelled DirecTV and 2. I'm out of component inputs and this unit would have solved the problem.

I do have a tough reception scenario where I'm 6 miles from one set of stations and 45 miles from the other set. The HD200 performs great and receives all of the Baltimore and DC stations. The 3510A was only able to receive 9 of the 13 available stations. I tried many different antenna orientations with my rotor and had no luck. The only thing I would have liked to try is taking the Antenna amplifier out of the picture but I was not going up on my roof for that.

I hope that J&R will take it back without too much of a restocking fee. My HD200 is installed and working well and I'll be ordering the Audio Authority component switcher. This would have been a much more elegant solution.

I think spending $150 to $200 for a component video switch box is a waste of money. Money is no issue for me. My wife said the more money I make, the more I am getting "cheap". I use a mechanical AV switch ($15) as a compoent video switcher. I connect Y to the video connector and Pb and Pr to the audio connectors. The PQ is great and there is absolutely no loss in PQ. I know there are many retailers on the AVS forum and they will probably flame me on this. I recommend you to try this option. You get nothing to lose.

As for the Z2, I spent less than $40 for a misty evening screen with black wood frame and $15 for a DIY plexi glass ceiling mount. My DVI-D dual link cable is a $30 one from eBay (the only one that works for me). I do have a $1000+ digital camera and HS20 owners hate my Z2 screenshots.

Originally posted by Muse
The HDTV is also through the DVI port and by all reports is terrific. We are in the same boat - cancelled the 3510A order because I didn't want to deal with the likely issues with my Z2. I'll watch the threads and maybe bite if things clear up somehow. Luchan is the only person (to my knowledge) who claims success at 720p through DVI with these machines in DVD and HDTV and he seems to know what he's doing.

Dan,

If you don't have OTA HD programming for your Z2, I recommend you to get an LG LST-3100A (lower cost). I used to own Hitachi and Mitsubishi HDTVs. The 480p DVD picture on Z2 is at least 5 times better than my 65" Mits. The improvement in PQ form 480p to 720p on Z2 is marginal for my eyes. I almost bought a 60" Sony WIII LCD RPTV. My local Circuitcity manager let me play the WIII for 3 days at the store. I tested DVE, AVIA and many DVD movies on it. I ended up with a front projector Z2.

stephenfrancis/Muse,

I have a 2HD and the LG-3510A. I purchased a 10m Lindy DVI Cable on e-bay from Cyber Connections. I have numerous sparklies with the 10m cable. I know that many have had excellent luck with the Lindy Cables so I wonder if the 3510A sends a somewhat weakened signal or the hardware configuration is a tough one for DVI.

Upon finding that I had a problem, I called Cyber Connections for resolution. CyberConnections put me in direct contact with Lindy USA and I am dealing with them for a new cable called a "Slack" (sp) cable. It is Jeff's (Lindy USA) contention that the "Slack" cable will fix my problem. Apparently, one Forum member has already gotten the cable for the same type problems I am having and it cured his problem. One thing for sure is that Cyber Connections and Lindy are making me feel like I'm being well taken care of.

Getting on with it... With the LG connected to the 2HD via DVI I would occassionally get all snow but when I got a signal (granted it was with sparklies) from the 3510A to the 2HD I had 720P res. from both the OTA for locals and QAM for cable tuners. Additionally, I had 720P for DVD with no HDCP problems.

Enter a 2m DVI cable... First, 2m is not gonna work for me so this was only for testing purposes.

I hooked up the LG to the 2HD and turned on the 2HD. Before the 2HD had finished its startup countdown I turned on the LG and I ended up with the, "This device is not HDCP..." message. I cycled through the display formats from the front panel of the LG and when I returned to DVI 720P the selection screen of my DVD was there in all its glory. I tried several other DVDs and never had another problem. I think that turning on the projector and letting it finish its countdown before turning on the LG may help.

720P over DVI was EXCELLENT!!! It came very close to looking like HD. The picture is not soft and had virtually no red tint like I had experienced over component. It's a no brainer for me. I have since given up the 2m DVI cable and am relegated to watching DVI 480P for the time being (no sparklies at 480P over the DVI and I do not have a 10m component cable).

I hope to have my cable problem solved shortly after the New Year. I wont be able to fix it before then. Gotta love the holidays. With any luck I will have news of a 10M cable that works like a charm with this configuration.

All in all, J and R has a liberal return policy with no restocking fee. There is no way I would pass up trying this DVD player. I guess, due to lack of numerous repeated testings, I could live to eat these words but I really don't think so.

As I said in the Digital Projectors < $3500 Forum, "Oh...MY...Good...Lord...This, yes this, is why I bought a HD projector. Actually the picture is better than I thought it would be. If I can continue to get the PJ and the 3510A to Synch I think I am in heaven. After I dial it in it should only be better. NOW I AM EXCITED!!!! WOO Freakin' Hoo!!!"

I hope that J&R will take it back without too much of a restocking fee. My HD200 is installed and working well and I'll be ordering the Audio Authority component switcher. This would have been a much more elegant solution.

John_D, When I was on the phone with JandR ordering my 3510A (since cancelled), I asked about their return policy. I was told I have 30 days for a return for a full refund. I said, "no questions asked?" They said, basically, "yes." I said, "you mean if it doesn't work right with my system, I can send it back for a full refund." I was told, "yes."

Leon, congratulations on your success and I hope it only gets better, especially when you get that "slack" 10m cable. I can't imagine why you need a 10m cable, well I suppose I can. I'm lucky in that I think I can get by with a 10', 5m max.

Luchan, I'll investigate the 3100A. I do have the Momitsu, after all. However, the reported success of Leon and yourself encourages me to think I too may have success with the 3510A/Z2 combination. When it works, people seem thrilled with the performance. Is the 3100A as good as the 3510A for OTA? I'd heard nothing but great things about the PQ and sensitivity of the 3510A until I read John_D's post. However, that's making me wonder now if it's as good as people seemed to be saying. With tuners a whole lot depends on the particular situation - location, antenna, the always different broadcast patterns. Thanks for the ideas and good luck with the equipment!

Leon & Dan,

Thanks for your posts. I would like to confirm that I am able to play DVDs in 720p or 1080i format over the component output if I switch to the component after a DVI handshake is complete. In other words, the resolution remains if I switch from DVI to component.

Further tests show that even after I power down both units and then power them up in the component setting. I am still able to play DVDs in 720p or 1080i format over the component output as long as there is a successful DVI handshake done prior to this.

Muse,

I have a 15' X 20' family room. The front wall has an 81"H X 72"W X 24"D inset. This is the best location for my AV gear, the center speaker (which will be on a pull out shelf and will extend out so the face of the speaker is about 14" in front of the plane of the front wall) and 27" Sony for garbage SD.

Fishing a cable through the ceiling/second floor, floor joists every 18" with fiberglass insulation and God only knows what I have forgotten... Well, you get the picture. It doesn't seem like an option. Running surface on the ceiling would probably land me in the dog house. If I run underneath the house I would have to come up through the floor and the DVI connector dictates about 1.5" diameter hole through the carpet...No positive points here. So...

I am going to build a pedestal about 5.5' tall and place the PJ on it at abt 12' from the screen. The DVI cable exits the LG goes to the edge of the entertainment center runs to the right wall then under the couch , behind my chair, up through the center of the pedestal and voila there is about 4 feet (if I'm lucky) left over. A 7.5m will just barely not make it by about 2+ feet. I'm not sure what else I could do. I have spent alot of time thinking about how I am going to setup this whole mess. I don't want to spend alot but don't want it cheesey. Light control is really going to be fun, but I can do it.

Luchan,

I will not get this tested soon. Sorry, holiday obligations dictate.

Originally posted by Luchan
Leon & Dan,

Thanks for your posts. I would like to confirm that I am able to play DVDs in 720p or 1080i format over the component output if I switch to the component after a DVI handshake is complete. In other words, the resolution remains if I switch from DVI to component.

Further tests show that even after I power down both units and then power them up in the component setting. I am still able to play DVDs in 720p or 1080i format over the component output as long as there is a successful DVI handshake done prior to this.

Just a couple of questions about this!

1. Did you connect the component to another display to check this while your DVI was connect to your projector?

2. What happens when you are playing a DVD at 720P over component and you disconnect the DVI?

I have a 3510 hooked up to my Runco via RGB and have been able to play a few DVD's in 720P or 1080i hooked up this way. Anytime I try to switch to component, the projector will switch to 480P when I try to play DVD's that successfully played via RGB.

I did test your second queston. The 3510A was locked into 720p even after I disconnected the DVI cable. I powered the two units down and then back up. It stayed in 720p on all DVD movies (original) I tested.

The remotecentral site (sorry vbulletin won't let me post an URL) has discrete remote codes for the LST-3510A that control power on, power off, and the output format (1080i, 720p, 480p, and 480i). The file is for a philips pronto.

I was wondering if we could all use these codes to overcome the dvi auto-reset problem defaulting to 480p.

Does anyone have a philips Pronto remote? Can you please try the file?

Does anyone know how to convert the philips pronto file into something that other programmable remotes can use?

Again I would post an URL but the site software will not let me untill I have 5 posts.

Thanks!
Carlos

I have downloaded and converted the Pronto CCF file using MX Editor for my MX-700. Those codes work OK, with a few exceptions. 1) If you are using the discrete power on and off codes in macros, you may lock the 3510 up inadvertently by sending two power off commands in a row. I solved this by including power on's in all activation macros.

The other is more problematic. As far as I can tell, the discrete output mode commands are only active when the 3510 is in "DTV" mode, not "DVD" mode. You can go from "DVD" to "DTV," change the output mode, and then go back to "DVD," but I can't get the 3510 to change output modes when in "DVD" mode.

John,

Thanks for trying this out!

Thanks for the tip about switching modes before using the output commands.

Now I need to figure out how to get these codes into anything other than a Pronto or MX remote (I would like to keep using my NAD remote).

Carlos

I have downloaded and converted the Pronto CCF file using MX Editor for my MX-700. Those codes work OK, with a few exceptions. 1) If you are using the discrete power on and off codes in macros, you may lock the 3510 up inadvertently by sending two power off commands in a row. I solved this by including power on's in all activation macros.So basically sending power on before power off fixes the problem? Were there any issues with sending a power on signal while the unit is on?

Update: Are there discrete codes for DTV and DVD modes?

Yes, I have discovered an issue with sending two power on's in a row. If you do so, the analog audio output becomes garbled. If the unit is then turned off and back on, it clears the problem. The digital audio output is apparently unaffected, so you shouldn't have any problems if that's all you're using. In my case, I was using the digital output in my main system and the analog output for my multi-room zones. I finally decided to just not use the discrete power on & off commands and to leave the 3510A on all the time.

I have not yet found any discrete codes for DTV mode and DVD mode.

I've had mine since Wednesday (yes christmas eve wheee!), and I've watched a couple of movies with little to no problems. The only thing I've noticed is that sometimes my tv loses sync with the unit. This most definately is a cable as it is pretty much just a straight through dvi cable without the cylinder objects (capacitors?? shield? My mind is blank at the moment... 1 and half hours of sleep). Otherwise it's able to do something the Samsung 931 could not on my Toshiba 34HD82 and thats play at 1080i! I was limited to 720p on the samsung. I did a slight comparison between 720p and 1080i (since 1080i is more natural for my monitor without it having to scale a scaled image heh it was a lot clearer). When I had the Samsung and tried to watch Star Trek Insurrection the zoom modes on it were horrid since my tv does not allow you to resize the picture on anything greater than 480 modes. Yes I have a direct view tv. I preferred my xbox (avia tweaked over component xbox only does 480i) dvd playback than the samsung so I returned it. This box has exactly what I wanted. I was looking at HD Tuners (I love this tuner compared to my dad's Samsung T160... A LOT more friendly in the menus for me and love the signal button on the remote :) ) and those usually range at least $199 off of ebay and I had a hard time justifying the price just for 4 broadcast channels (actually digital channels is greater as one actually broadcasts WB and FOX here on their separate hd subchannels). Anyways, I'm rambling. This thing had pretty much everything I wanted as I wanted something that could use that DVI port in back plus I wanted a real DVD player. Too bad it doesn't do DVD-Audio or SACD, but does HDCD but releases are hard to find. Hearing about the successs of the different DVD formats being played on it plus looking in the manual and seeing it can play MP3's and WMA's off a disc (my car player can do both) this improved my initial perception. So far I've been able to watch Terminator 3, 2 Fast and 2 Furious and Finding Nemo. All played in 1080i. My tv doesn't "show" the current resolution it's in, but the way I check is to see if PIC Size is unavailable and it was the whole time. I do not have an AUTO DVI problem. When I first plugged in the unit it was set to default of RGB 1080i. Changed the format to 1080i over DVI and haven't had any problems except for the one which I'm about 80% sure its the cable. Going to get a shorter and more proper dvi cable and it happens randomly.

I was hoping to be disappointed in this unit, unfortunately I'm not. Comparing little stuff like OTA HD and SD channels is just jaw droppingly different and has ruined my tastes in picture quality. The first time I actually drooled to see Jay Leno on the tonight show because doing the comparison to the OTA HD, OTA SD and my cable provider's local channel feed is night and day. Either the tv station overprocesses it's regular standard signal or the HD really is that much better.

If you want me to try anything or any specific movies.

Like I said when I turn off and back on the unit it is 1080i. But I have noticed something on my tv since I plugged the LG up to the DVI port. The status light on my tv is always blinking now whether the lg is powered on or off. I'm thinking the TV and the LG are still talking to each other even when both are turned off. Also noticed that if I do not switch my tv to a different input, if I turn off the LG it also turns off my TV. Which could be annoying or convenient depending how you look at it....

$199 for say a bravo d1 or $299 for a samsung 931 give or take street pricing and at least $200 for a HD tuner, I think I'm doing good and think it was now worth the money.

Anyone have a clue how to set this puppy up with Tivo?

The S-Video output is suppose to work so I was planning on sending a Tivo capable picture out for recording.

Only got two big issues:

1. Tivo currently doesn't have a HDTV program lineup.

This shouldn't be an issue since you can use Tivo like a VCR to record channel xx at yy time every week. I suppose it's possible to hack the software, but I'm not ready to try that yet.

2. Tivo can't control the LG-3510a.

Or at least I haven't found a way to do it. I tried forcing in a CABLE setup in the Tivo Guided setup, but it didn't offer Sony/Zenith/LG for cable box options.

Forcing a SAT setup now and going to try using the Sony HD300 setup routine and hope it works.. It probably won't..

Anyone got this to work with Tivo?

Originally posted by Blackforge
I was hoping to be disappointed in this unit, unfortunately I'm not.

Do not believe everything you read here. Too many dealers on the AVS forum.

Originally posted by Luchan
Do not believe everything you read here. Too many dealers on the AVS forum.

Speaking definitely NOT as a dealer here. I received my LG on the 23rd from J&R. And let me tell you. This thing ROCKS!. I'm in san francisco and have line of sight reception to sutro tower and i can pick up 13 digital channels just with a RatShack $20 antenna.

As for DVD, I've got it hooked up to my Hitachi 51GWX20B through DVI and have not experienced the DVI reset issue. The images are stunning, and I haven't had to suffer any of the quirks of my psychotic Bravo D1 (anyone want to buy a slightly used first batch D1?:D )...

The only issues that I have with it is that sometimes, the remote doesn't seem to be as sensitive as my others. Also, layer changes on this are a tad slower than the D1, which, admittedly, when it was working correctly, had lightning fast layer changes.

my $.02

That's odd.. I'm in Berkeley across the bay from San Fran..

I also got line of sight to Sutro tower and I can pick up 21 stations.

My antenna is an indoor Radio Shack one that is a 6 foot long rod.

This is a great unit, but it could be more user friendly.

1. ABC out here transmits in 720p and all other stations transmit in 1080i.

In order to get widescreen for ABC I need to put the LG in 720P mode manually or use the NATIVE mode. When the LG is in Native mode it takes a long time to switch to 1080i if I change to a non-ABC channel.

2. When in NATIVE mode the resolution switches to 480p automatically for DVD playback.

I'm just leaving the LG in 1080i now. My 50" screen is so big that even a 720p pictures looks slightly grainy. 1080i is super sharp.

Since I can't get my Tivo to get the LG to switch channels for unattended recording I think I'm just going to get non-digital cable and just watch cable through Tivo and OTA HD / DVDs through the LG.

Blackforge, does the 3510A play any format DivX? I believe my Momitsu will do DivX4. I need HDTV, and am eyeing the 3510A, and I guess other LG receivers. Thanks.

Davlee, I'm also in Berkeley and looking to go digital/HD for TV, currently OTA only. Don't want to go cable, etc. for now. Will see how I do with my antighosting rooftop. Seems to me you may be able to make life easier for yourself with a programmable remote (after you get past the learning curve). I'm also eyeing the MX-700 remote. So, you're saying right now it's too much of a hassle to change to 720p just for ABC, so you're not watching it in widescreen. Is the problem all the buttons you have to push or a wait for the unit to make the changes internally for some reason?

Originally posted by Luchan
Do not believe everything you read here. Too many dealers on the AVS forum.


And this is why I only have 5 posts. Because this happens WAY too often around here.

I'm a Systems Engineer not a dealer. You make me sound like I'm selling drugs.. I mean... Electronics...

I typed out my reasonings for trying this unit out, what I've been looking for and didn't feel like paying $400 for a unit so I can use my DVI (if I didn't buy it off ebay). I didn't take a look at the manual when I bought it. I bought it from J & R and if you look back in this thread I thank the person who gave me the heads up about calling.

But of course you're the same one who complained about me wanting to save $50 and waiting a little longer (which I only waited 10 days from purchase to receiving) than paying a "premium" and probably wouldn't have gotten it but a day or two sooner if not at the same time as **************** seemed it was taking a week from order to shipping also.

Your name calling is unjustified. Just because I didn't have a post full of complaints.

Originally posted by Muse
Blackforge, does the 3510A play any format DivX? I believe my Momitsu will do DivX4. I need HDTV, and am eyeing the 3510A, and I guess other LG receivers. Thanks.

I don't believe so no. According to the manual it does MP3, WMA, VCD1.1 , VCD2.0 and JPEG decoding. I can try a DIVX later but I highly doubt it will work.

Originally posted by Blackforge
And this is why I only have 5 posts. Because this happens WAY too often around here.

I'm a Systems Engineer not a dealer. You make me sound like I'm selling drugs.. I mean... Electronics...

I typed out my reasonings for trying this unit out, what I've been looking for and didn't feel like paying $400 for a unit so I can use my DVI (if I didn't buy it off ebay). I didn't take a look at the manual when I bought it. I bought it from J & R and if you look back in this thread I thank the person who gave me the heads up about calling.

But of course you're the same one who complained about me wanting to save $50 and waiting a little longer (which I only waited 10 days from purchase to receiving) than paying a "premium" and probably wouldn't have gotten it but a day or two sooner if not at the same time as **************** seemed it was taking a week from order to shipping also.

Your name calling is unjustified. Just because I didn't have a post full of complaints.

You misunderstood my message. I am happy that you finally got your 3510A and have no problem with it. What I was trying to say was that some dealers may bash this unit to gain the market share. I feel sorry for those who cancelled their orders. As usually I highly recommend this unit.

P.S. The 3510A plays all DVD+/R(W) and VCD and SVCD I tried. Not all of them played on my Sony progressive scan player.

I bought my 3510A from a local retailer. If you go to www.lge.com, you will probably have difficulty finding an LG dealer in your area. However, if you go to the www.zenith.com, you will find a handful of Zenith dealers. Most of them have the unit in stock or can get one for you from CA in less than 10 days.

This was how I found a local retailer who happened to have the 3510A in stock a few weeks ago. If you buy the unit from a local dealer, you may return or exchange the unit if there is a problem.

Originally posted by Davlee
That's odd.. I'm in Berkeley across the bay from San Fran..



that is odd. i might have to do the EZScan thing again. I only played with it once when i got the unit of the box. This was around noon time, maybe not all the stations were broadcasting at the time.

Originally posted by Luchan
You misunderstood my message. I am happy that you finally got your 3510A and have no problem with it. What I was trying to say was that some dealers may bash this unit to gain the market share. I feel sorry for those who cancelled their orders. As usually I highly recommend this unit.

P.S. The 3510A plays all DVD+/R(W) and VCD and SVCD I tried. Not all of them played on my Sony progressive scan player.

Sorry after going through all the BS in the LG-3510A under the DVD player forum it sounded like a similar situation.

Originally posted by Luchan
Leon & Dan,

Thanks for your posts. I would like to confirm that I am able to play DVDs in 720p or 1080i format over the component output if I switch to the component after a DVI handshake is complete. In other words, the resolution remains if I switch from DVI to component.

Further tests show that even after I power down both units and then power them up in the component setting. I am still able to play DVDs in 720p or 1080i format over the component output as long as there is a successful DVI handshake done prior to this.

Someone please clarify. From what I'm reading, in order to be able to play DVDs in 720p or 1080i format over the component output a DVI handshake has to complete first? In other words, if I have no DVI input on my display device it will not be possible to output 720p or 1080i across the component connection? Thanks in advance!

Petey

1. ABC out here transmits in 720p and all other stations transmit in 1080i.

Davey,
You should receive an HD signal in 16/9 regardless of whether you have it
set at 1080i or 720p. I have this same issue in that on "native" it takes a couple of seconds for the receiver to sync with my monitor when you change to a channel with a different resolution. I tend to keep it at 1080i fixed and then just manually change it if I need to. An SD channel gives it problems as well if in "native" and often it won't sync at least with my GWIII. If I keep it on a fixed resolution i.e. fixed at 1080i I don't see this problem.
Charles

I hope my posting on this forum is not misunderstood in any way. I strictly post the truth. We work very hard to satisfy all of our clients and have communicated very closely with LG engineers, customer service and QC personnel to resolve issues with these units. Overall, most users are extremely happy with the performance of the LST-3100A, LST-3510A and LSS-3200A's.

To fulfill the very high demand we have flown in all of our inventory and escalated the out-bound shipments as well. Not much profit in doing business this way, but hopefully happy customers.

I do assume my posting has made some sales for my company, however, my avs forum banner sponsorship and favorable avs forum members posts have provided the lions share of new business from this forum.

DTV-

I for one consider you an asset to this forum. I have always found your posts very helpful. You have always been up front and honest as to your identity.

-Skip

Originally posted by Petey
Someone please clarify. From what I'm reading, in order to be able to play DVDs in 720p or 1080i format over the component output a DVI handshake has to complete first? In other words, if I have no DVI input on my display device it will not be possible to output 720p or 1080i across the component connection? Thanks in advance!

Petey

This is correct for my 3510A. My display unit is a Sanyo PLV-Z2 projector. I am able to play all DVDs except Disney ones in 720p and 1080i format over the component. I just discovered this a few days ago. What I did was to wait for a DVI handshake to complete and then switch to the component video. Later, I disconnected the DVI cable and still was able to output 720p and 1080i through the component.

You could bright the 3510A to a store like CircuitCity and do a DVI handshake there. I am not 100% certain it will work. It could be a solution to your problem.

Originally posted by Skipm
DTV-

I for one consider you an asset to this forum. I have always found your posts very helpful. You have always been up front and honest as to your identity.

-Skip I too have a very favorable impression of your posts.

-Dan

Originally posted by Petey
Someone please clarify. From what I'm reading, in order to be able to play DVDs in 720p or 1080i format over the component output a DVI handshake has to complete first? In other words, if I have no DVI input on my display device it will not be possible to output 720p or 1080i across the component connection? Thanks in advance!

Petey Petey, this may not be the case. Luchan was posting as regards an issue that was being bandied about a great deal - namely the issue of difficulty getting an HDCP handshake between the Z2 (which has a DVI connection) and the 3510A. He was further clarifying the behavior he was having using compoent connections at 720p using these machines, and if your projector doesn't have a DVI input, I presume your experience will be rather different. Indeed, the 3510A seems to behave differently with different projectors. I'm sorry if this doesn't do much to resolve the confusion, but I hope it helps some.

Originally posted by Muse
Petey, this may not be the case. Luchan was posting as regards an issue that was being bandied about a great deal - namely the issue of difficulty getting an HDCP handshake between the Z2 (which has a DVI connection) and the 3510A. He was further clarifying the behavior he was having using compoent connections at 720p using these machines, and if your projector doesn't have a DVI input, I presume your experience will be rather different. Indeed, the 3510A seems to behave differently with different projectors. I'm sorry if this doesn't do much to resolve the confusion, but I hope it helps some.

Appreciate the quick replies Muse & Luchan. My intension is to upconvert DVD's to my DVI-challenged NEC LT150 projector as well as display a HD picture. Looks like I need more verification before pulling the buy trigger.

Petey

My 3510A does not play any DTS sound on all DVDs I tested. Can anyone confirm this?

I thought the same thing. I fixed the "problem" by utilizing the 3510A's menu while in DVD mode. Under---Digital Audio Output--- check marks by Stream/PCM and 96KHz. Once I did this I could use either DTS or DD.

Hope this helps.

DE

Thank you. DE.

No problem, it is not an intuitive setting, considering the fact that there are 3 PCM settings to confuse things. Trial & error got me where I needed to be--DTS functional.

I never even heard of the LG 3510A until I lurked at this forum. It works quite well on the 60" GWIII WE610.

The same happened to me. If you select "stream" it will provide DTS or DD.
Selecting "Dolby Digital" will disable DTS. It shouldn't matter whether 96 khz or 48 khz is selected as DTS will not provide sampling rates of >48khz.
If your receiver can accept signals of 96khz leave it at 96 but only uncommmonly would this come in to play (Some audio DVD's from Chesky
I think have 24/96 material).

Charles

34xbr800 and 3510a


So far very good. Great signals with the OTA Tuner


Dvd's look excellent in 1080i.


Viewed so far:
S.W.A.T
Spiderman
Pearl Harbor
Star Trek VI

Petey,

I too have a DVI challenged TV.

I've recently purchased a DVD +R/+RW drive, and XCopy. Making a backup copy of my movie allows me to watch it at 720p or 1080i. A good compromise for now - at least until I'm able to get a new TV. I'm probably not seeing all that a DVD at 720p or 1080i can produce (Xcopy will compress to fit on one disc), but the picture looks great. I've done three movies: Gladiator, Nemo, and Fifth Element - all worked. So, I'll buy RW discs, and then just make copies of the movies I want to watch. 480P looks great also, so I don't plan on doing this for every movie. Spending an extra $100 over a OTA-only box seemed like a resonable price to "play."

BTW - you have to set the output to either 720p or 1080i. In native or variable, it defaults to 480p.

Garry

Reposted from DVD forum....

I finally got around to trying my LG 3510 this afternoon.

I found it very troublesome at first as I kept getting the HDCP unsupported message on my Samsung DLP (HLM upgraded), and thus I could not view my DVDs in 720p or 1080i over the DVI connection. A few minutes ago, however, I tried again and everything was working fine with DVI. Hopefully, that behavior will continue...

The picture on DVD--now that DVI is working--appears comparable to that on the D1 (better than Samsung 931).

From a usebility standpoint, I hate how one must use the front panel on the unit to change inputs and resolutions. Discrete remote codes are available for 480p, 720p, and 1080i, but they don't work in DVD mode, so one must revert back to DTV mode to change resolution. With my Samsung DLP, the 3510 forgets the last configured resolution and resets to 480p every time I turn it on. The unit always starts up in DTV mode, which can be a minor annoyance if you intend to use it primarily as a DVD player.

As far as cable and ota...

Off-air reception is excellent. I like that a signal strength meter is available at the touch of a button. I also like how the 3510 lets you label channels with logos.

The 3510 will search, find, and display OTA channels in a guide, but I have been unable to select and tune channels from this listing. Whenever I select a channel in the guide, all I get is more channel info. This behavior is unlike any set top box I have ever used. What good is a channel guide if you can't tune channels directly at the press of a button?

As far as cable, I was dismayed to find that the 3510 could not display a guide for the channels it found on Comcast Cable. It found about 15 digital channels in a search (including the HD locals and InHD channels), but it won't display them in a guide or listing -- I have to switch among them manually with +/- (or a surf button). That said, the picture on these cable channels is an improvement (noticeable, but not drastic) over that seen on the SA3100HD.

bf, there is rumor of a firmware patch in final testing to address DVI issues like the 480p reset issue.

Ken

I have the same (unanswered) questions as goddahavit.

How does the 5130's DVD quality compare to a player with the Faroudja chipset? What deinterlacer does the 5130 have anyway? Does it pass the chroma bug test?

Also, how good is the 5130 for RPTVs with DVI?

I have Toshiba 57H83 RPTV and a Denon DVD-1600 DVD player.

Originally posted by rubix
...I have Toshiba 57H83 RPTV and a Denon DVD-1600 DVD player.

I have done some tests comparing it to an XP30. I see no reason to switch on my TVs. I would keep the Denon unless you see something on test patterns or movies that are a problem with the 480p component inputs that could be resolved another way.

Alright, so the 720p and 1080i and DVI output doesn't make a difference on RPTVs really?

I guess I'll get the LST-3100A and save some money.

Originally posted by rubix
Alright, so the 720p and 1080i and DVI output doesn't make a difference on RPTVs really?

I guess I'll get the LST-3100A and save some money.

LG has just notified me that my orders are on hold as they are in the process of upgrading all LST-3100A's and LST-3510A's with new firmware patches. The upgraded inventory will be available next week.

Any information as to what the firmware upgrade fix/improve?

Very nice! Now a few questions:

1) Will the firmware upgrade fix the Z2 HDCP communication error?

2) How will we know before we order/purchase if the firmware has been upgraded?

Regards
Steve

I just got off the phone with a CSR rep at LG, she knows nothing of this update.

Who at LG notified you?

I spoke to LG's Customer Service yesterday and some lady told me the same thing. Unfortunately, she sounded like she didn't know anything about anything period. She told me that they have never had any complaints about that unit. I prodeeded to pick mine up at UPS anyway. Hopefully they will provide a way for users to perform the upgrade eventually.

CSR reps will always be that way. Why would they be kept in the loop until a update is ready? They are not. If they were, they would get the same people calling over and over asking when the update is ready. CSR reps would not really be notified until the update is released.

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
I just got off the phone with a CSR rep at LG, she knows nothing of this update.

Who at LG notified you?

I can not revel my sources. Only kidding, I know from engineering management, the LG/Zenith STB product manager and my LG/Zenith sales manager. The upgraded products should ship later this week.

Two of my orders are held up and when they are released I'll be well stocked for the first time since these boxes became available.

I do not know all of the upgrades, but one is the auto DVI reset issue.

Well, I think the receiver in my 3510 partially died.

I can only get about half the channels I used to get. I've unplugged and rescanned. I've tried different antennas. I've called the broadcasters. No go.

Does anyone have any other advice before I box this sucker up and send it in?

did anyone find out if it was true or not?

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
did anyone find out if it was true or not?

It is true.

Originally posted by Mac The Knife
Well, I think the receiver in my 3510 partially died.

I can only get about half the channels I used to get. I've unplugged and rescanned. I've tried different antennas. I've called the broadcasters. No go.

Does anyone have any other advice before I box this sucker up and send it in?

Check with others in your area. It doesn't make any sense that you would only get some of the stations.

By the way, you mentioned that you changed antennas. What exactly did you do?

Originally posted by DTV TiVo Dealer
I can not revel my sources. Only kidding, I know from engineering management, the LG/Zenith STB product manager and my LG/Zenith sales manager. The upgraded products should ship later this week.

Two of my orders are held up and when they are released I'll be well stocked for the first time since these boxes became available.

I do not know all of the upgrades, but one is the auto DVI reset issue. So is this also part of the current firmware update that LG just finished? Is the 3510a also out of stock so anything received should be the new firmware?

Originally posted by JimP
Check with others in your area. It doesn't make any sense that you would only get some of the stations.

By the way, you mentioned that you changed antennas. What exactly did you do?

The 3510 is normally connected to a roof mounted YAGI, but I also have a plain indoor antenna (VHF rabbit ears and UHF loop).

When I first setup the 3510, I used the indoor and the 3510 found all the local HD channels, so I decided it was senitive enough to work for me. I then switched it to the roof-mount antenna and rescanned, with identical results.

Reception was fine for about two weeks, but last Sunday I couldn't receive a couple of stations. That's when I disconnected the power and rescanned and then swithed back to the indoor antenna and rescanned and generally just tried everything I could think of.

On Monday, I started calling all the broadcasters to confirm that they were up and that they didn't change their power output or their PSIP data or any other changes to their signals.

I also got my first HDCP message yesterday, even though it is connected to an HS20 DVI port which is set to Video GBR.

Today, I've gained back one station, picked up a station in Tolleson (which I never used to get because it is in a different direction than South Mountain) and I lost another station that has always had good signal strength. This 3510 is just acting flaky as hell.

Mac The Knife

Just a distant 3rd party observation, you need to find someone local that has a HD OTA system to compare notes to. The people at the stations that you're talking to may never admit what's going on or maybe don't even know what's going on. Some reception may be just boardline such that weather may impact it. My PBS reception is remarkably good at times, then for no obvious reasons, goes crazy, fluctuates and just disappears. The station would not admit to this, but someone I met through AVS forum that lives a few miles from here, confirmed this behavior.

As to your HS20 giving the HTPC message, I'm assuming that you've used it before and didn't get this message. Some DVDs, (Disney comes to mind) has an extra layer of copy protection that might give you this message when other DVDs don't. If you've got the Avia DVD, try it. If I recall correctly, they don't use any copy protection on it as to take away from picture quality. If you still get the HDCP message, then I'd say you've got a problem that needs fixing.

Let us know what's happening.

Mac the Knife

I too live in the Phoenix area (Tempe - Rural/Warner), and lost Channels 3 and 5. I got 5 back, but not 3. I've rescanned several times. It can find 3 during the scan, but then gives a "no signal" when tuning it in. This happened in the last week or so.

So I too am stumped. I don't watch much content on 3, but having 5 (CBS) mysteriously go out and come back is not very comforting. I have not tried to power down the unit. I do have access to a 3100A and a very old Samsung unit, so this weekend I will be seeing what stations they can/cannot tune as a comparison. If the both have the same problem as the 3510A, then I'm likely going to suspect that something is up with the transmitters on South Mountain.

Cheers!

Originally posted by KornerKlub
It is true.


i just called again.... and they know nothing...... not a clue about the firmware patch

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
i just called again.... and they know nothing...... not a clue about the firmware patch

Call 877-993-6484 and keep calling until to Lauren answers, she is the only one with clue about the firmware update. Tell her your problem (auto reset, hdcp, etc) and get a case# so the next time you speak to someone without a clue then can reference your call.

I just called and luckily spoke with Lauren. She said she was going to talk to engineering and give me a call back around 5pm.

i have a 3510a but are they sending out a cd with the firmware update

Originally posted by RAVEN56706
i have a 3510a but are they sending out a cd with the firmware update

Uh.... the update will not be on a CD.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Uh.... the update will not be on a CD.

I was led to believe from LG that the update would be on CD/DVD. Popping in a CD/DVD is the easiest way for the customer to update his own player.

also makes it very hackable. lol

Originally posted by dozens
Popping in a CD/DVD is the easiest way for the customer to update his own player.
That may be the case when dealing with DVD players...but this is a set top box.... just a bit more delicate.

JimP and GarryM:

Well, I called channel 3 today and they are off the air do to a part failure. I am now back to having all channels except 3.

I had called channel 5 a couple of days ago, but they claimed they were up and running at the time. I'm glad to hear that it wasn't just me having problems with 5.

JimP:

I'm in Phoenix. We don't have 'weather'. :D
We have 350+ days of no wind and no clouds.
My analog reception actually gets better when it rains, because my biggest problem is having a poor ground plane due to the soil being so dry (the soil around here is also pretty salty, so when it rains the transmission is almost as good as over sea water). It hasn't rained since I got my 3510, but I expect similar results.

I have some borderline stations, but some of the signals I lost were very strong. However, based on GarryM post, it seems that he also lost the same strong stations, so I think I experienced multiple problems (i.e. the strong stations actually going off the air plus some unknown problem that made my weak stations worse than normal).

AFA the HDCP message is concerned, it wasn't a copy protected disc since I was able to get it to play after manually resetting the to 3510 to 720p. I guess this must force a new HDCP handshake. I have also played Avia w/o getting the message. I'm guessing that getting this message is related to the Auto Reset issue, so hopefully the rumoured firmware update will fix this annoyance.

After talking to channel 3 and seeing Garry's post, I'm feeling a little better about my 3510. I think the only unexplained problem was with the weak stations. I might be able to improve my weak signals by replacing the cheap RG59 cable run to my outdoor antenna with RG6 and perhaps replacing the relatively small vhf/uhf/fm antenna with a higher gain uhf only antenna.

Thanks for the feedback.

Question Gang

For DVD playback, do you find component @ 480p to look better than DVI in any resolution??????????????????????

For me, the moving resolution test patterns on the Avia disk looked terrible at 480p on the component input of my HS20 (regardless of the mode, e.g. even normal through looked bad). I think they look best at 720p with the DVI input set to 'computer' and 'full through".

I think this is due to the scaler in the HS20, but without test equipment I can't really tell how much of the problem is due to the 3510 vs the HS20.

I would love to have someone else experiment with the moving resolution patterns on a different display and tell me what they see.

I just bought an Antennacraft Super G1483. It's UHF only and about 50" tall and 30" wide for just $15.

Before crawling up on the roof, I just took it inside and connected it to the 3510 and now all the channels that used to be weak are good strong signals even though the antenna is pointed due South instead of SE and even though it has a sliding glass door and an asphalt patio cover between it and the transmitters and it is just leaning against the wall instead of having free space all around it.

I think this might be the best 15 bucks I've ever spent.

This might be a good candidate for an attic mount, if it fits.

Yo Mack...

Suggest to your wife that you leave it there as "art". See what she says.lol

Hehehe, It actually does look like some kind of a goofy 'modern art' mobile.

It would also be easy to hide it behind a japanese style screen or some kind of a fiberglass cover since it is only about 6 inches deep.

BTW, Have you had a chance to experiment with any different outputs or mode setting?

On a HD CBS channel I'm viewing using the 3510A's clear QAM tuner connected to TWC cable I'm getting dropouts occasionally. What surprises me is that it is not recovering unless I switch channels and then go back to the CBS channel. It just seems to display 'Scrambled' or 'No Signal' (usually Scrambled I think) if I leave it on the CBS channel waiting for it to resync. Obviously it's not scrambled since by switching channels I can come back to it seconds later. Do HDTV receivers normally sync up quickly after a dropout? Is this peculiar to the 3510A? The signal level also seems to be fine, right in the middle of the strength meter where it usually is.

Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.

Jim

Just called LG and the CSR told me the firmware update might not be out until middle of February !!!

Damn, I'm really getting tired of setting the resolution this beast every time I use it.

Hi,

Is anyone playing DVD's at 720P or 1080I out of the VGA port? I've got a Sony CRT projector and this unit would be a good source for HD and DVD if it allows upscaled output of DVD's on the VGA output.

I've read the thread and seen that people are getting upscaled DVD output on the component outputs if they hook up a DVI display first and do the DVI handshake. Has anyone tried the same method with the VGA output?

Thanks,
Bob

I just got my a/v receiver (Onkyo TX-SR601) and I am having alot of trouble getting audio when playing a dvd. The audio works fine with OTA my cable box so it is the receiver. I have the "Stream/PCM" and "96KHZ" checked in the disc menu. The only work-around that I have found is opening and closing the dvd tray this of course makes me reset the dvi output to 720p.

I hope the firmware fixes this problem as well.

Originally posted by dozens
I just got my a/v receiver (Onkyo TX-SR601) and I am having alot of trouble getting audio when playing a dvd. The audio works fine with OTA my cable box so it is the receiver. I have the "Stream/PCM" and "96KHZ" checked in the disc menu. The only work-around that I have found is opening and closing the dvd tray this of course makes me reset the dvi output to 720p.

I hope the firmware fixes this problem as well.
I have an Onkyo TX-SR500 and am having no problems with audio.
A couple of things you might try:

1) I realize you said you're having the problem when playing DVDs, but did you try setting the menu option for Digital Audio Output in the HDTV receiver menu (p. 27 in manual)? I have this one set to Dolby Digital.

2) Did you try setting the Sample Frequency to 48KHz instead of 96KHz?

When you lost the audio, were you by chance playing a DVD and then pressed the button to get to the player's setup menu? And then when you resumed playing you lost the audio? I recall having something similar happen when I was still going through setup. I only experienced the audio loss when I did a sequence something like that. It could possibly have been when I changed the output from 480p->1080i or vice versa, but I think it was the menu sequence. I think if I stopped the DVD first and then went to the setup menu there was no audio issue afterwards.

Good luck.

Jim

Originally posted by JimSD
I have an Onkyo TX-SR500 and am having no problems with audio.
A couple of things you might try:

1) I realize you said you're having the problem when playing DVDs, but did you try setting the menu option for Digital Audio Output in the HDTV receiver menu (p. 27 in manual)? I have this one set to Dolby Digital.

2) Did you try setting the Sample Frequency to 48KHz instead of 96KHz?

When you lost the audio, were you by chance playing a DVD and then pressed the button to get to the player's setup menu? And then when you resumed playing you lost the audio? I recall having something similar happen when I was still going through setup. I only experienced the audio loss when I did a sequence something like that. It could possibly have been when I changed the output from 480p->1080i or vice versa, but I think it was the menu sequence. I think if I stopped the DVD first and then went to the setup menu there was no audio issue afterwards.

Good luck.

Jim

I am not sure what p27 details but the only audio settings I fiddled with on the 3510a are when in dvd mode and going to the audio settings and choosing "Stream/PCM" and "96KHz". I will look my manual and unit tonight and see if p27 will help.

I haven't paid close attention to when the audio loss happens. I want to say it happens when I go from 480p to 720p. I then sometime the hdcp warning message. I also recall losing audio when going from the dvd menu/introduction to the actualy movie.

Is this firmware fix also supposed to make the 3510 work with a Z2?

John

Originally posted by dozens
Just called LG and the CSR told me the firmware update might not be out until middle of February !!!

Will the unit output RGB simultaneously with DVI?

I've been waiting on a 3510a for about 3 weeks. I had it on order from 3 vendors, but no one was shipping b/c LG had them held up while they updated the FW. I got notice from one vendor that my item had shipped and had to quickly call the other 2. They had charged me for them, but luckily they had not shipped (close to getting 3 of them). Anyway, UPS says delivery is expected tomorrow. I will let you know what I find and if the problems are still there. Of course I will have to read the past 12 pages to find out what they are ... unless someone would like to post a scenario they would like me to try ?? ;)

I'm using an HS20 if that helps.

Basically the problems involve player resetting it's output rez to 480p at power down as well as problems sync-ing with some displays. For me, the reset only occurs if I have it in native or one of the variable modes and I have problems with sync when in those same modes. The sync problem seems to occur when it tries to sync to a standard def signal (like when a digital station broadcasts in SD on a subchannel). My solution has been to keep it at a fixed rez or surf only HD channels when in variable/native mode. It's not that big of a deal but would be nice if it can be fixed.

The problems seem to occur only with the DVI interface to my knowledge.

Charles

Any update on the new FW and what it does/doesn't fix? Anyone know if the new firmware is supposed to fix the problem with the 3510 working with the Z2? Thanks.

John

Originally posted by pauleyc
I've been waiting on a 3510a for about 3 weeks. I had it on order from 3 vendors, but no one was shipping b/c LG had them held up while they updated the FW. I got notice from one vendor that my item had shipped and had to quickly call the other 2. They had charged me for them, but luckily they had not shipped (close to getting 3 of them). Anyway, UPS says delivery is expected tomorrow. I will let you know what I find and if the problems are still there. Of course I will have to read the past 12 pages to find out what they are ... unless someone would like to post a scenario they would like me to try ?? ;)

I'm using an HS20 if that helps.

I just got my shipping label from LG and Airborne Express is picking the unit up tonight. I hope they can return it by this weekend.

I just put in my 3510a last night and there are a few question I could not obtain from the manual. I am hoping someone on this thread can help me.

1.) Where do you find out what firmware the unit is using?

2.) Can you change resolution to 720P or 1080I when using the DVD mode for a 16:9 ratio? In the manual (Page 42) it seem to said only on 4:3 that the resolution can go higher? Most of the DVD that I bought is in widescreen mode so I would like to try watching them in HD mode.

3.) Where do I confirm that I have set the output resolution to variable 1?

I am currently using the DVI output on this unit to my Sony KV-36HS510 (4:3 ratio screen)

Thanks for any help.

Originally posted by rh2019
I just put in my 3510a last night and there are a few question I could not obtain from the manual. I am hoping someone on this thread can help me.

1.) Where do you find out what firmware the unit is using?

2.) Can you change resolution to 720P or 1080I when using the DVD mode for a 16:9 ratio? In the manual (Page 42) it seem to said only on 4:3 that the resolution can go higher? Most of the DVD that I bought is in widescreen mode so I would like to try watching them in HD mode.

3.) Where do I confirm that I have set the output resolution to variable 1?

I am currently using the DVI output on this unit to my Sony KV-36HS510 (4:3 ratio screen)

Thanks for any help.

I think I can answer 2 for you.....

Whether the movie is in 16:9 or 4:3 it will display it in the resolution you select (720p or 1080i) you can then use the ratio button on the controller to expand the picture to get rid of the black bars on some of the letterbox and widescreen movies.

Not sure if this is what you were asking...

Mine is getting shipped to LG-Huntsville early next week for the firmware fix (call the cust service number on the back of the manual and have your serial# ready) - I'll let you know how it goes.

Ken

Originally posted by kenhdtv
Mine is getting shipped to LG-Huntsville early next week for the firmware fix (call the cust service number on the back of the manual and have your serial# ready) - I'll let you know how it goes.

Ken

I drive past this place everyday to and from work. Wonder if I can just swing by there and drop mine off. Hell my TV is in the shop anyways. Might as well do it now.

I should have mine back by Monday.

Hi,
I purchased a cheap Apex 43" HDTV projector without DVI during Chrismas. My plan is pickup a Zenith HDV420 in the next 2 weeks, but not sure after reading all the comments here. Is the LG 3510A going to work for me? Thanks in advance.

Dozens, when did you have Airborne pick it up ? I'm interested in the total turnaround time from power-down, transit, update, transit, power-up.

Ken

Does this box have firewire in/out for the tuner?

Thanks

Originally posted by Barrybud
Does this box have firewire in/out for the tuner?

Thanks

Nope

I just got my replacement 3510a in (my old one would not format the screen properly for above 480p resolution on ota programs and after powering up I would have to reset my resolution for the dvd player). The new unit formats the screen properly for ota but I cannot use the dvd at all now! If I put a dvd in it will power up and then say unable to use dvi connection with this disc ( it also says to try rgb and disconnect dvi). When I try rgb it says the same except now it says to use component connection). Has anyone had a problem like this?
Ron

Originally posted by ellisr63
I just got my replacement 3510a in (my old one would not format the screen properly for above 480p resolution on ota programs and after powering up I would have to reset my resolution for the dvd player). The new unit formats the screen properly for ota but I cannot use the dvd at all now! If I put a dvd in it will power up and then say unable to use dvi connection with this disc ( it also says to try rgb and disconnect dvi). When I try rgb it says the same except now it says to use component connection). Has anyone had a problem like this?
Ron

What tv/projector are you using ? It might not be HDCP compliant.

Originally posted by dozens
What tv/projector are you using ? It might not be HDCP compliant.
dozens,
I am using a Viewsonic 19" computer monitor (I have a 65" hdtv in my other room:-)). The interesting thing about your response is that is what the error message says but my first 3510a played dvds fine, I just had to reset the resolution for dvds everytime I powered up a dvd ( the original unit had a problem with the ota screen format). Why is it now a problem?
Ron

Originally posted by ellisr63
I just got my replacement 3510a in (my old one would not format the screen properly for above 480p resolution on ota programs and after powering up I would have to reset my resolution for the dvd player). The new unit formats the screen properly for ota but I cannot use the dvd at all now! If I put a dvd in it will power up and then say unable to use dvi connection with this disc ( it also says to try rgb and disconnect dvi). When I try rgb it says the same except now it says to use component connection). Has anyone had a problem like this?
Ron

After playing around with the unit I found out how to switch to 720P or 1080I before DVD start playing. I don't know if this is the proper way of doing this or maybe this is the firmware fix everyone is referring to. I have my unit set in the DTV mode variabe 1 so if I want to play a DVD in 720P or 1080i I have to first change the display format using the buttons on the unit (is there corresponding keys on the remote ) and when I am done with DVD I have to manually switch back to variable 1. Is this the way how everyone is doing the resolution switch? Thanks in advance.

P.S. I am using DVI output.

If I recall both variable modes as well as native ouput 480p for DVD over DVI so to upconvert DVD to 720p or 1080i over DVI you have to fix the resolution manually.

Charles

I just sent in my RCA DTC-100 STB in for service, and don't have high hopes of seeing it for a while. I'm looking at replacing it with the LG LST-3510A, as it is the only other STB I can find with VGA outputs.

Here are my questions: Has anyone used this without a receiver ? Can you even hook up your speakers directly? We're waiting on the receiver for a few months.

Also, how does this DVD player compare to the upcoming D3 from V, Inc.? That's what we had been planning to hold out for, but maybe this will work just fine.

THanks for your help!

Originally posted by hsuthard
I just sent in my RCA DTC-100 STB in for service, and don't have high hopes of seeing it for a while. I'm looking at replacing it with the LG LST-3510A, as it is the only other STB I can find with VGA outputs.

Here are my questions: Has anyone used this without a receiver ? Can you even hook up your speakers directly? We're waiting on the receiver for a few months.

Also, how does this DVD player compare to the upcoming D3 from V, Inc.? That's what we had been planning to hold out for, but maybe this will work just fine.

THanks for your help!
The only way I know of to hook it up to speakers without an amp is to use powered speakers (it does have a variable audio out so you can control your volume).

Has anyone had problems manually tuning to any channels? In other words, I can't use the numbers and dashes on the remote to go to my local channels 1-1 or 2-1,2-2,2-3,2-4,2-5, but I can go directly to all other ota channels in my area (4-1 up to 45-2). I can get to those lower channels by using channel +/- but not directly.

Also, even though it does not say so in the manual, is there some way to program the 3510a to turn on and off at set times on possibly different channels to record to a VCR via RCA?

Originally posted by kenhdtv
Dozens, when did you have Airborne pick it up ? I'm interested in the total turnaround time from power-down, transit, update, transit, power-up.

Ken

My box was picked up on 2/3/04 @ 6pm and it arrived today. Haven't powered up yet, but I know it is sitting at home waiting for me.

Just powered up my updated unit and the results are mixed. The player seems to remember my settings (dvi, 720p) but it still complains with the HDCP message when upconverting a dvd to 720p. I will play around with it later to see if the reset is truely gone and if the hdcp handskake is still a problem.

BTW - I have BenQ PE8700, which is suppose to HDCP compliant. If there is a HDCP problem I would assume it with the 3510A and not the PE8700 since I would think it is easier for the projector to say I am HDCP compliant then for the player to ask and confirm the projector is telling the truth.

Dozens,
I am getting the same error with my unit also (but I haven't tried to play at 480p). My old 3510a had no such problem though:confused: