This is not optical distortion, the plastic housing is not straight.

At least on my GWIII...

Umr, Pm you a message....

I'm having probs with my GWIII and it's production of yellows and greens. I've gone through UMR's tweaks and calibrated color and hue with AVIA, but still the yellows seem almost flourescent. Blond hair has a greenish hue to it. This is across all inputs, though most noticible the lower the video feed (hard to notice with an HD signal, so-so with a 480p DVD, relatively easy to see with and SD signal).

Not sure if it's related, but I can't seem to get the white level set correctly. When I display the AVIA or THX white level patterns, I can't see any sliding bars (AVIA) or any distinction in the 4 squares (THX), regarless of how high or low I set the white level. When I look at the grey ramp patterns on AVIA, the last 2 shades of white blend together identically. I assume (?) this is a greyscale problem that needs a pro to fix.

Is there an easy fix for either of these probs in the SM, or am I looking at needing an ISF tech?

Thanks,
Sean

I would try reducing the picture level output on your DVD player. It sounds like it may be too outputing at too high a level for the TV to be able to compensate. You may also need to adjust the gray scale. You may also need a different DVD player if you can't get its levels correct. Some players are just too far off of standard levels to be useful.

I'm trying to adjust black level using the test pattern on HDNet. Does anyone know if the number 10 block on the brightness scale should or should not be visible when setting black level?

It would also help if I knew if high definition video has "blacker than black" as NTSC video does.

What time do they have the test pattern's ? I have heard people talking about it . Which HDNet channel ? One of the Direct Tv channels?

It's at 8 am ET every Tuesday morning. The patterns are on for 10 minutes only.

HDNet. Channel 79 on DirecTV.

Ok , Thanks KC-tecknerd I will have a look. G.B.

Just out reviewing some settings for my GWIII now that I picked up a new Denon 3910 last night.

KC-Technerd, you asked about HighDef Test patterns and pluge. The SMPTE bars should have a BTB bar in the lower right corner. I do not have HDNet so I am not sure if they are sending it or not, I just use the patterns from my generator for HD.

I do have a question for those in the know. I just hooked the 3910 up via DVI, and have noticed my 1.85:1 aspect ratio movies have no bars top or bottom. I did not have this problem with my Denon 3900 via component. I am guessing it is probably just an overscan issue specific to either the DVI input or the 3910. I will throw some patterns up tonight via DVD and via my generator and see if I can figure out which one is the culprit, but any suggestion would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Originally posted by vtecno_geek
KC-Technerd, you asked about HighDef Test patterns and pluge. The SMPTE bars should have a BTB bar in the lower right corner. I do not have HDNet so I am not sure if they are sending it or not, I just use the patterns from my generator for HD.


The HDNet pattern has color bars that extend from the top to bottom of the screen with no pluge pattern. There is an 11 block gray scale across this pattern, with a number in each block. The brightest block has a slightly dimmer 0 in it, and darkest block has a slightly lighter 10 in it. I just don't know if the block itself, or the number 10 within it is the actual black level.

The 0 block should be black, and the 10 block is 10 IRE on up the chain. It sounds to me like they don't have a BTB check.

Advanced Video - Cinemotion, Reality (1), Clarity (1) (slight improvement in resolution)


OK, One thing that is throwing me off here is this Reality and clarity options, I just bought a 60XBR950 and while it does have an option for cinemotion i cant find any option on reality and clarity. So is this a different set?

It would be because you have the mild mode on. This does the Reality & Clarity to a factory setting so they go dark. Mild mode off It should come back so you can try the adjustment for the best set up for what input you are on to give you the best picture. You can not adjust when getting H D sorce or on DVD when you connect with Progessive in.

I have an XBR950.

How does this set compare to the newer IV models? Which one would have superior picture quality? Lastly, price being the same which one would you pick?

Thanks.

-Brian

Brian,

If you are asking me I see no reason to get a newer model set if you have an XBR950.

Hi UMR,

Would the KDF-60XS955 offer superior image quality? Or about the same?

-Brian

Originally posted by Bghead8che
Hi UMR,

Would the KDF-60XS955 offer superior image quality? Or about the same?

-Brian

I would expect it to be inferior, but I have not done an extensive comparison. My belief lies in my knowledge of the differences. The XBR950 definitely has higher resolution electronics. The difference in the LCD panels is not likely to be significant. The difference in the screen/optical components and mechanical rigidity is likely to be significant.

Whether you would perceive them as similar is beyond by ability to predict.

I asked the Sony guys and he said the XBR is still the top of the line while compairing it to the XS

In the instructions umr states that one should press "Mute Enter" after each setting change. On the WE620 is that the "muting" and "ent" buttons? Press one after the other?

Yes, "muting" followed by "ent". WRITE in the upper right will turn red to confirm that it's indeed saving the value.

Thanks! I took the plunge and discovered it worked. I've made through half the tweaks, although I didn't fiddle with the gray scale (I only have DVE). Although the blacks look denser I still find the picture fuzzy in calibrated Pro mode. I guess I'll have to keep fiddling. It was interesting to find how close Standard (tweaked with the user menu using DVE) was close to the calibrated Pro mode, only sharper.

Please don't forget to hit reset after you come out of your service menu mode. Then re-adjust things like you like them....Some changes don't take till you do this. Note you are to do this before & after for the above mention effects.

Actually GB, I did hit the reset button and I saw it defaulted to the adjustments I made. I guess I just have to work at the settings some more to achieve the satisfaction level others seem to hae reached.

The most important ones for me was setting MVLS to 0, MHLC to 1, Axis to 0, for detail & red push. DCP-ADJ2 # 1 to from 13, 14, to 15 if its not already. HD 1080 I & 720 P are already at 15.. UMR is the best for Sony...Sometimes its been more easy for people to do one input at a time, example DVD. Then go back & see how you did with something you know what it looks like. Yes Standard is closer to Pro , Vivid was to sell Tv's at the TV store.

Log everything, & tell people if your factory settings are not the same as they had on the forum. Sometimes they change & modify settings after production starts....

Will do, G.B.! And thanks!

Damn! I accidentally changed the setting: DCP-ADJ2 (SHFO FULL) to 15 in 480p. Does anyone know the original setting for that one?

Is there somewhere where I can get the original service menu settings for the KF50WE620? I didn't change all of them but I'd like to make sure that I didn't screw up. I know, I know ... I should've heeded umr's warning about insuring I was on the right category and in pro mode when making the changes. But I was a bit overwhelmed, confusing (only once, I think) 1-4 with 3 and 6. :rolleyes:

It's these ones I'm looking for:

DCP-ADJ2
SHFO

MID5
MVLS and MHLC

DCP-USER
UPIC and UBRT and USHP

Originally posted by maxyvits
Is there somewhere where I can get the original service menu settings for the KF50WE620? I didn't change all of them but I'd like to make sure that I didn't screw up. I know, I know ... I should've heeded umr's warning about insuring I was on the right category and in pro mode when making the changes. But I was a bit overwhelmed, confusing (only once, I think) 1-4 with 3 and 6. :rolleyes:

It's these ones I'm looking for:

DCP-ADJ2
SHFO

MID5
MVLS and MHLC

DCP-USER
UPIC and UBRT and USHP

Anybody?

Ok well, since no one responded, I was able to find the following remote control commands on a site about calibrating an HDTV (http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/how2adj.html#3.1):

RESTORE USER SETTINGS
[8],[ENTER] = Restores All *USER* setting to Factory Defaults

RESET VALUES
[0],[ENTER] = Read Default Value from Stored Settings (Reset)


Can someone confirm? Are the Factory Default USER settings the pre-calibrated settings of the unit?

maxyvits

Its been posted before that using the codes will in most cases totally trash the TV. That will defininately cause you to have a bad day. Apparantly there is a difference between factory values and the ones that are in use at the time the set leaves the factory.

Call sony and order a service manual.

Cool, thanks JimP! You saved my Christmas!

I guess the next obvious set of questions is:

Does anyone have said manual? How much does it cost?

maxyvits

The default settings for the values are different depending on scanrate. These are the values from the last Sony LCD RPTV set I calbrated.

SHF0 is either 13 (480p), 14 (480i) or 15(HD). I assume these are all factory defaults. I would set it to 15 according to umr's recommendation.

MVLS default was 1 for all scanrates. Recommended setting is 0.

HMLC default was 3 for 480i and 480p. Recommended setting is 1.

UPIC and UBRT and USHP are different depending on mode you are in, Vivid, Standard etc. Listed below are defaults for Vivid/Standard/Pro. Run the set in pro mode if you are applying the tweaks.

UPIC 63/50/46
UBRT 25/35/31
USHP 37/35/31

If you follow umr's recommendations, you will need to set sharpness ALL THE WAY DOWN in the user menu. Otherwise you will get artifacts.

Before you go ahead, I would recommend ordering the service manual for your exact model. It around $25 + shipping ($2 or something) and well worth the money. Call the Sony Part's Center at (800) 488-7669 to order.

Good luck, and be careful in there.

csundbom, you're a godsend ... thanks man! I presume HMLC is a typo? It's MHLC, right?

PS - is the last SONY LCD RPTV that you calibrated a KF-50WE620?

Last one I did was a KF-42WE610, a slightly earlier chassi. I suspect they are very close, since the models after the 620 (655 etc) still have similar service menus. Just to be sure, order the service manual. Yes, it should be MHLC, I fat-fingered it.

Maxyvits, & Csundbom I PM you a private message...G.B.

offtopic-

umr- curious do you know if your filter tweak would work on the JVC? We're discussing the possibility in the long JVC thread.

Now that I'm back on track with my Standard default settings, thanks to csundbom. I'm ready to continue umr's tweaks for the Pro mode. I'm good with the SHFO, MVLS and MHLC settings, but I'm curious to know what you guys tweaked these to:

DCP-USER
UPIC
UBRT
USHP

Cheers!

PS - umr, you rock too man!

UPDATE: For these, I basically follow umr's suggestions: 58, 37, 0. Btw, the default for USHP in PRO is 36 (not 31 as noted above). For the record.

I'm pretty sold on umr's tweaks. The grey scale for one is much better than STANDARD and it's easier on the eyes. However, I wanted to get a sense for what you guys are setting UBOF at. I basically have it locked in at umr's recommendation for DVI 1080i and 720p: 30. Not exactly sure what to set at in 480p and i. Oh decisions, decisions, decisions! :D

maxyvits

UBOF is intended to be the user brightness offset that is input and resolution specific. Although 30 might be a good starting place, ideally you need to use a test pattern to fine tune those inputs. For instance, if your DVI 1080i input is cable HD, then there is a channel that broadcaset 1080i to adjust that input/resolution. As I can't get that channel with my setup, I don't recall which one it is but it is referenced somewhere in this thread. You might want to try a search within this thread.

Do keep in mind that some of these brightness and contrast settings will vary from DVD player to DVD player, satellite receiver to sat receiver, etc. So trying to use someone else's settings although informative might not get you all that close. It also assumes that they got it right.

Also, the GWIII doesn't hold black levels all that well at varying average picture levels. In other words, if a picture is 50% white and 50% black, the test pattern will display the blacker than black differently than when the screen was at 25% white and 75% black. So even after calibration with room lighting the way you normally watch TV, you should still ask yourself if the general picture looks a little washed out or maybe the details in the darker areas are crushed and adjust accordingly.

And most of all "Enjoy the Show". ;)

Thanks JimP, I'll keep that in mind. I'll look around for that reference cable HD channel. I noticed that for the 480i and p settings it was set to the highest level (63). I can't recall if I did that or whether it's the default factory setting; I have a feeling it's the former.

Does someone know the channel JimP is talking about that broadcasts 1080i to adjust that input/resolution (UBOF)? I've search through this thread and haven't been able to place it. Also for 480i and p what would the proper reference material be on DVE? Thanks in advance.

They say It is on Tuesday mornings on the Direct tv I think 79. I will look again in the threads. In HD on Vivid,Standard, they set UBOF to 31, In HD. I set mine to 33 because I use the cinema mode watching Tv in subdue light. So default 35 was to high compared to my other sources & tests with patterns . 30 was to dark. I think in Pro with DVD Its 29. Umr gets It close or right on, but he still recommended doing it yourself with patterns. Look for what he say's to look for.THX did have a web you could read on set up with the patterns on DVD. Remember Its your Tv. Look for the standards to get the best picture. P.S. Yes, the USHP is set higher for the reason optics, the biger the picture the softer it might get. so they made it 36 insted of 31. I default mine to 31 anyway, & set mine at 17-21 clicks up from left.

UBOF @ 29 for DVD (pro especially) sounds quite low for me--I'm using component cables, btw. I find blacks completely wash out details at anything under 50 (I have it at 55). For 1080I/720P in HDTV DVI I have it set to umr's recommendation.

I just got a DVD with the THX Optimizer on it. Do you guys recommend the first (contrast/picture) and second (brightness) patterns for for judging UBOF? My problem is trying to figure out how much discrimination (i.e., of white boxes and THX shadow) is standard or adequate.

Merry Christmas everyone!

Maxyvits, I was looking at UBOF 480 P is 29, 480 I it's 55, in Pro. Look at step 40.- 45. Set UPIC to 58, UBRT 37 for starters. On my setup this looked correct. UBOF is used to make all input & timings have the same black level . UPIC you set buy looking at the boxes of white . This is easy on old crt tube sets if the brightest white & second white look the same, or the blooming, where it goes out of focus, you would turn it down for a good blooming picture. LCD will not bloom so this is why it's hard to see. UBRT , if your DVD player will produce blacker than black ? you see the shadow , turn it down till shadow disappears. Don't forget to hit reset before & after you get out of the service menu. This is inportant to the setting changes you did. P.S. Note: 37 = also 37 clicks from the left in the User Menu.....

www.thx.com Explains a lot .....

http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/contrast.html Shows examples of how to do set up....THX...Optimizer......

UBOF, Should be 55 Vivid,....37 Standard,.... Pro 29 on.... 480 P, 480 I, Video, U/V.....H D 35 Umr say's 30. I use 33 because I have my Cinema on in my extended menu......for subdue light.

Thanks for looking out for me, G.B. You rock!

Problem is that this example does not work for LCD/DLPs.

http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/contrast.html

Originally posted by Bghead8che
Problem is that this example does not work for LCD/DLPs.

http://www.thx.com/mod/products/dvd/contrast.html

Works on mine. (GWIII, LCD rear projection set)

If you are unable to distinguish between the shades on your set and you're unable to adjust it out, then it may be that your DVD player is crushing whites.

G.B.: Note that umr has UBOF set at 30 for 1080i/720p (DVI) . He doesn't note what it should be for other scan rates ... unless I'm missing something here. At any rate, I changed it from 55 in 480 pro to 30. In pro, though, things appear a little darker.

What I mean is that pattern is designed for CRT not LCD TVs.

-Brian

Originally posted by Bghead8che
What I mean is that pattern is designed for CRT not LCD TVs.

-Brian

Actually it works pretty well for LCD sets. You need to look for a color shift. Do not increase the picture level beyond where the squares are essentially the same shade of gray. I prefer AVIA because the levels are even closer to 100 percent making it is easier to detect white crush and color shifts. However, that does not render the THX Optimizer pattern useless.

The levels I posted for color, hue, sharpness, picture and brightness are just examples. People need to calibrate their TV to match their equipment. That is one of the key points of the step-by-step procedure.

Umr, Good to have you back. You can describe this to a T . Folks this is also why this man is a big help in our forums. He is a Number ONE, the best on calibration....

Umr, If you get a min .Please describe each setting & what to look for when you are doing your step by step like you did for picture level. This would be a big help for the amateurs & a refresher for the ones that have done this for some time. Just about everybody has the THX on some DVD this would be a good example. Black level,Color, Hue, Sharpness. In the extended menu I still like the cinema on. Give them your ideas if any on this. I like the Avia for set up as well.

Originally posted by G.B.
Umr, If you get a min .Please describe each setting & what to look for when you are doing your step by step like you did for picture level. This would be a big help for the amateurs & a refresher for the ones that have done this for some time. Just about everybody has the THX on some DVD this would be a good example. Black level,Color, Hue, Sharpness. In the extended menu I still like the cinema on. Give them your ideas if any on this. I like the Avia for set up as well.

What is deficient in the description provided in the step-by-step procedure? It is quite a bit of work to do it again.

Ok,
I've got a new KDF-42WE655
I have an I-1 colorimeter with an additional ambient light attachment, I also have a notebook with sotware tha allows to read ambient light charactgeristics and radiated light characteristics of almost anything using the I-1. I have a DVD with all those test patterns (DVE) I also know how to access the Service Menu on my Tv.
What can I do with all this stuff in order to set correct Black level, Image highlights, and a consistent gray in 6500K across the entire range of brightness? HOW?


Thank you!

Oh yes I forgot to mention that the device returns Lux and Color Temp Values for Light Measurement or Lab values for direct reading of color. It doesn't return IRE values.

dkitsov,

I am not very familiar with that device, but it might be possible to use it to set the gray scale. Does it provide x & y outputs? Without those the color temperature readings are next to worthless. You are probably better off using a home-made optical comparator if you cannot get reasonably accurate x and y values.

These devices are typically used to generate a monitor profile in the computer. You should be able to use it with a HTPC to generate a profile for the GWIII with the computer, but that would not help other sources. I have considered placing a calibrated monitor next to the TV as a type of optical comparitor. That may be an option in your case if you have multiple copies of THX Optimizer, DVE or AVIA.

This a colorimeter from Gretag Macbeth. In fact I know that the same device is used by people from ColorFacts. I know that it outputs Lab, which can easily be converted to xyz, or should it be xyY?

OK. I'm confused.

If a value has a "U" in it then is means user value. Correct? So, for example, USHP would be user menu sharpness. If one changes the sharpness in the SM does this change the value in the UM also?

Why are the "User" value adjusted in the SM VS. UM? If you adjust the values in the SM do you leave the values alone in the user menu?

For example, contrast. We are told to set it in the Service menu. Do we leave the contrast alone in the User Menu? I believe we just set the User menu to default.

<< csundbom wrote:

If you follow umr's recommendations, you will need to set sharpness ALL THE WAY DOWN in the user menu. Otherwise you will get artifacts. >>

I don't doubt this advice however I don't see this suggestion in UMR's guide.

Thank in advance folks!

-Brian

Hit reset before you enter the SM. set UBRT to 37. This = 37 clicks from the right in the user menu. After you save 37 when you go back to User menu & hit reset you will see it change to 37 on the UBRT. for USHP some have done 0, 10-11,17-18. Default from factory is 31 up to 50 inch, 60 inch 36 because of bigger screen. Do the THX test on a DVD that has it , or another test DVD.

Originally posted by maxyvits
G.B.: Note that umr has UBOF set at 30 for 1080i/720p (DVI) . He doesn't note what it should be for other scan rates ... unless I'm missing something here. At any rate, I changed it from 55 in 480 pro to 30. In pro, though, things appear a little darker.

UPDATE: I remembered why I put UBOF to 55 in 480I/P modes. When significantly lower (i.e., anything between 40-50) the contrast bars disappear in the DVE pluge reference diagram. Just FYI.

G.B.

Let me see if I have this correct. When you set a value such as UBRT in the service menu this then becomes the default in the user menu. Am I correct?

Thanks!

-Brian

Was csundbom correct when he wrote the following?

<<If you follow umr's recommendations, you will need to set sharpness ALL THE WAY DOWN in the user menu. Otherwise you will get artifacts. >>

Originally posted by Bghead8che
OK. I'm confused.

If a value has a "U" in it then is means user value. Correct? So, for example, USHP would be user menu sharpness. If one changes the sharpness in the SM does this change the value in the UM also?

Why are the "User" value adjusted in the SM VS. UM? If you adjust the values in the SM do you leave the values alone in the user menu?

For example, contrast. We are told to set it in the Service menu. Do we leave the contrast alone in the User Menu? I believe we just set the User menu to default.

<< csundbom wrote:

If you follow umr's recommendations, you will need to set sharpness ALL THE WAY DOWN in the user menu. Otherwise you will get artifacts. >>

I don't doubt this advice however I don't see this suggestion in UMR's guide.

Thank in advance folks!

-Brian

A value with a "U" preceding it can be a user menu value. The reason this is suggested as a SM tweak is that you can return to the calibrated values by just hitting reset on your remote. This is handy if you or someone else adjusts the user menu values. There are a nearly infinate possible of number of combinations for tweaking these sets. I have just included one so that it can be followed in a logical order that should result in a very useable set. Anyone can follow their own path if they like.

As to the question about sharpness, I am generally against telling people to set a specific value unless it is always correct. I also prefer to tell people how to determine the proper setting instead of just telling them the correct value. A sharpness setting of zero is likely to be correct, but some people prefer enhancement. Following the procedure I suggest should result in the correct value whether it is zero or not. One of the reasons I post the tweaks is to educate along with providing a method to get a better picture.

UMR.

I have a theory that I'd like to see if you could confirm or deny. From some of your previous posts I believe you have some pretty good info on how the digital inputs are handled.

To provide a bit of background on the equipment I'm using, I have a Sony KDF-70XBR950 TV. I've got a Sony SAT-HD300 DirecTV receiver connected to the DVI input, and I have a JVC HM-DH30000U D-VHS VCR connected via iLink.

I'm assuming that the DVI input, the iLink input, and the internal ATSC tuner (all digital inputs) are all processed by the same MPEG decoder. The only reference material I have available for any of these inputs is Digital Video Essentials (D-VHS 720p), and the HDNet test patterns (1080i).

My theory is that if I correctly tweak settings (in particular brightness, picture, and color) for one digital input at 720p, the other digital inputs (at the same resolution) should be correctly tweaked as long as the offset settings (UBOF, UPOF, UCOF, etc.) are identical. Visually this appears to be the case. It also appears that matching the offsets between 720p and 1080i also achieves correct results (comparison of DVE 720p and HDNet's 1080i test patterns).

It also appears that using the same method for 480 sources from the ATSC tuner and digital inputs achieves correct results, although I have no 480 reference material for the digital inputs, other than setting the SAT-HD300 to output at 480i or 480p when viewing the HDNet test patterns.

So to sum it up, what I'm theorizing (and hoping) is that correctly calibrating one digital input using reference material, and matching the offsets between all digital inputs, will result in all digital inputs being correctly calibrated.

KC-Technerd,

Your approach seems to work in general. I have found a few problems with digital devices. but they are not common. Samsung seems to be the biggest culprit along with some DVI/HDMI DVD players that are out there. Most seem to have subtle level problems if any.

I suspect the I-Link and the ATSC tuner on the XBR950 bypass one step of analog conversion as well based on how the test patterns look. I have not found any diagrams that include details on the MPEG decoder in these TV's. The DVI input is not processed by the displays MPEG decoder. The decoder in the source device is used for all DVI inputs which are 8 bit RGB.

To clarify, I didn't change the U* values in the service menu. I opted for only changing the user values in the user menu, and not messing around with the SM defaults.

A sharpness setting on "0" ("all the way down") turned out to be the only one I could use without getting ringing with the Avia Pro sharpness test patterns, so I set it there. This is after implementing the recommended settings for SHF0, MVLS and MHLC.

I know that some people prefer edge enhancement, especially on smaller sets, and I guess that's why the manufacturers still add a sharpness control. I'm not in that camp, however, therefore my recommendation.

I also want to publicly thanks umr for his excellent work in putting together the tweak guide. You are adding a lot of value to a set that's not that great OOB, and succeeded in making in downright beautiful! We ISF calibrators owe you bigtime.


Originally posted by umr
A value with a "U" preceding it can be a user menu value. The reason this is suggested as a SM tweak is that you can return to the calibrated values by just hitting reset on your remote. This is handy if you or someone else adjusts the user menu values. There are a nearly infinate possible of number of combinations for tweaking these sets. I have just included one so that it can be followed in a logical order that should result in a very useable set. Anyone can follow their own path if they like.

As to the question about sharpness, I am generally against telling people to set a specific value unless it is always correct. I also prefer to tell people how to determine the proper setting instead of just telling them the correct value. A sharpness setting of zero is likely to be correct, but some people prefer enhancement. Following the procedure I suggest should result in the correct value whether it is zero or not. One of the reasons I post the tweaks is to educate along with providing a method to get a better picture.

I've had a 70XBR950 for since 11/30/04. I have performed all of umr's tweaks and I love the set. However, I have noticed that, when viewing 4:3 material in "Normal" mode (box car), there is a slight "bow-in" on both the right and left sides. The middle of the screen is approximately 1/8" smaller than the top and bottom.

I have searched the avs forums but have not seen any other reference to such a problem with the XBR 950s (but then again I was not sure how to search on this topic).

Is there anyway to correct this?

Originally posted by mstrelau
I've had a 70XBR950 for since 11/30/04. I have performed all of umr's tweaks and I love the set. However, I have noticed that, when viewing 4:3 material in "Normal" mode (box car), there is a slight "bow-in" on both the right and left sides. The middle of the screen is approximately 1/8" smaller than the top and bottom.

I have searched the avs forums but have not seen any other reference to such a problem with the XBR 950s (but then again I was not sure how to search on this topic).

Is there anyway to correct this?

The only way I know of would be to replace the part of your set that supports the mirror. It is probably sagging slightly.

mstrelau,

The bow-in is completely normal. Every Sony Rear Projection LCD has the same "problem".

-Brian

Bghead8che,

I was going to ask if anyone had one that has perfect geometry. My take is that Sony has a pretty wide range of tolerance on the optics, as far as geometry is concerned. Mine has a slight bow, and the image is slightly wider on the bottom than on the top. I really wish there were some easy way to adjust the alignment of the optical components in order to improve the geometry.

Even so, the geometry and especially convergence beat CRTs by a long shot. Still its not as geometrically perfect as plasma or direct view LCD.

Originally posted by KC-Technerd
Bghead8che,

I was going to ask if anyone had one that has perfect geometry. My take is that Sony has a pretty wide range of tolerance on the optics, as far as geometry is concerned. Mine has a slight bow, and the image is slightly wider on the bottom than on the top. I really wish there were some easy way to adjust the alignment of the optical components in order to improve the geometry.

Even so, the geometry and especially convergence beat CRTs by a long shot. Still its not as geometrically perfect as plasma or direct view LCD.

Can you post a pic regarding this "bow"?

Maxyvits,

I can't post any pics of it right now, but when viewing a geometry test pattern, or viewing 4x3 material (normal mode) vertical lines near the sides of the screen are slightly farther apart at the bottom of the screen than at the top. Vertical lines near the sides of the screen also are very slightly curved toward the center of the screen.

In other words, a vertical line near the left side of the screen would start out at the top of the screen going vertically downward, then curve very slightly to the left as you approach the bottom of the screen. A vertical line on the right side of the screen does the same to the right. A close investigation reveals that vertical lines perfectly follow the pixels top to bottom.

Has anyone determined the optimal settings in the 480P mode for the GWIV.

Hi all,

I've had my 60XBR950 for almost a year now, and I'm very happy with it, especially after applying umr's tweaks. One thing I noticed though is dust/dirt build-up behind the anti-reflective screen. It looks like the deposits are on the inner surface of the screen, mostly in the corners.

Has anyone removed the anti-reflective screen to clean it up? I imagine the back cover will have to be removed first, but is it easy to dismount the screen after that? Is there a procedure to follow?

Thanks in advance!

Hi all. I have owned the 70" for about six months now and have done all of UMR's tweaks. I find myself leaving the set on VIVID instead of PRO. I think I just like the brighter pic. My question is, when I did the tweaks on PRO, do any of those tweaks I performed show up on VIVID? If not, is there any benefit for me to perform the same tweaks on VIVID? Would this work? Has anyone tried this combination? UMR do you have any thoughts on this?

Thanks
Bill

Bueler, Bueler, Bueler


Where is everyone? Vegas!

HELP!

Ok i have a WE610 , and have gone thru the UMR tweaks and loved my pic, now I have a new dvd player, Zenith dvb318 1080i over component and the picture is stunning except for one MAJOR issue, skintones when people are outside, when people have sunlight on them its almost a white crush effect where there faces are very light and almost no definition almost flat looking. I have gone thru my umr settings and everything looks good there. I am wondering if i tweaked something by accident. Has anyone seen this before? Any ideas of what parameters I may have mistakenly "tweaked" and know what the original value should be?

Thanks in advance,
SMD

SMD,

That DVD player is an abomination. Get something else or use it over component only.

:( unfortunately I AM using it over component
actually I took everything apart last night and got behind it just to make sure I didnt have it going thru dvi because at one point when i first got it i did, but its not now. And the other thing is I am getting this "hot, crush" of brightly lit fleshtones even on my hd channels, just not as bad as on the dvd input. I am really fearin that I hit a wrong button in the sm, i dont see how as i am pretty familliar and always use my printouts when i go in it just to refer to AND i would of had to save it before exiting. but thats the only thing i can think of.
this tv is definetly the best bang for the buck and when it looks good it looks reeeally good but I have had a lot of problems with it to, it makes it hard to recomend it to people.

--SMD

SuperMegaDope,

What is sounds like is white level clipping, normally caused by having Contrast (Picture on Sonys) turned up too high. Try to dail it down in the user menu to see if that resolves the problem.

SM items related to this could be "UPIC" (user menu default) or "UPOF" (input specific Picture offset), possibly "UGAM" (user gamma).

This could also happen if you mess around with the grayscale settings and set the drives too high. Then you could get crush on just one color channel (red/blue/green).

Good luck!

Hey umr! I noticed in the first part of your guide, where you provide an outline of calibrated settings, that you limit UBOF and AXIS tweaks to 720p/1080i (DVI/component). Is there a reason for that? Do you recommend these settings for 480p and i as well?

Also, is there a setting in the SM which allows one to tilt the screen from left to right (equivalent to the option on computer monitors)?

Has anyone done the tweaks for the KDF-55XS955 ??

Originally posted by maxyvits
Hey umr! I noticed in the first part of your guide, where you provide an outline of calibrated settings, that you limit UBOF and AXIS tweaks to 720p/1080i (DVI/component). Is there a reason for that? Do you recommend these settings for 480p and i as well?

Also, is there a setting in the SM which allows one to tilt the screen from left to right (equivalent to the option on computer monitors)?

That is not what that list is about. That is showing the exact values I changed on a specific TV and DVD player.

You should follow the procedure which includes UBOF and AXIS for all inputs in case it is necessary for your TV and sources.

There is no tilt adjustment on these sets. I would have included it if there was.

umr, are you planning on tweaking the KDF-55XS955 ?

Originally posted by Toastermax
umr, are you planning on tweaking the KDF-55XS955 ?

Not for free. I did offer to do it for a fee, but there have been no takers. My interest in these sets is waining. I am more interested in SXRD and D-ILA at the moment.

I have obtained a HD calibration TS file that I can play over DVI from my HTPC on my GWIII and calibrate 720p signals accurately over that connection. I use Pro mode for that connection as well as for my other input that I view HD content on, which is component, not DVI.

My question is, can I calibrate Pro mode with this on DVI, and expect to have achieved optimal settings for Pro mode for the real intent of the calibration, whic is using it over component on the other input?

Also, not sure if anyone has any experience with this specific calibration tool (INHD), but the u.m. settings after calibrating are "significantly" different from what DVE is telling me I should calibrate Pro mode to when I hookup a prog. scan DVD player to the HD satellite's component cables. Does this sound normal?

i.e. DVE settings
Picture = 61
Brightness = 39 (or so)
Colour = 50 (or so)

INHD settings
Picture = 50
Brightness = 26
Colour = 53


Lastly, I do understand that ideally I should run the INHD program on a DVD player through the component cables used from my sat receiver for HD, and that the DVD player should be 720p capable, but I don't own one.

Joe,

You be be seeing problems with PC levels. It is possible this will cause you problems with the calibration settings working with the component input. All devices do not have accurate levels as well that can make this even more difficult. I like to get test patterns from the device I am trying to calibrate if possible.

Yeah I realize that, but on Bell Expressvu in Canada what channel has these test patterns and when do they show them? I'm sure there are none.

I get CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS, Fox all from both Seattle & Boston in HD. I've never seen these test patterns.

I have seen them on CBS at times when they are switching to and from HD, but it is not consistent. It is also usually very short lived so if you don't have a PVR/DVR it would be hard to use. You may also want to subscribe to cable for a short time to be able to get the HDNet test patterns to calibrate your TV or you could hire someone with a signal generator.

Sorry, no HDNet in Canada...yet. I still have to de-ice the TV cables running into my igloo....

Hi Everybody,
Having trouble entering the service menu of my 70XBR950. I am doing the button press' as listed in UMR's tweaks, but I can't seem to make it work. Any tips? Thanks, Scot

Originally posted by umr
Not for free. I did offer to do it for a fee, but there have been no takers. My interest in these sets is waining. I am more interested in SXRD and D-ILA at the moment.

Well I must say this set just might not be for me, as it seems everything is working against me on it and now to top it off no one can give proper calibration on it.

Come on one more Sony wont hurt UMR :D

I did a ISF calibration of a KF-55XS955 yesterday, and most of the information you provided for the GWIII still applies. The values I arrived at for some of the tweaks were sometimes different, especially for the HD scanrates. Also, the "zeroing" out of the sharpness doesn't do the trick anymore.

This set has a pretty severe red push, but after adjusting the color decoder controls (RYR etc in the SM), it worked out beautifully. Truly reference quality color (after setting grayscale of course).

This is the first LCD RP set I've ever seen that is capable of really great pictures.

Originally posted by umr
Not for free. I did offer to do it for a fee, but there have been no takers. My interest in these sets is waining. I am more interested in SXRD and D-ILA at the moment.

Originally posted by csundbom
I did a ISF calibration of a KF-55XS955 yesterday, and most of the information you provided for the GWIII still applies. The values I arrived at for some of the tweaks were sometimes different, especially for the HD scanrates. Also, the "zeroing" out of the sharpness doesn't do the trick anymore.

This set has a pretty severe red push, but after adjusting the color decoder controls (RYR etc in the SM), it worked out beautifully. Truly reference quality color (after setting grayscale of course).

This is the first LCD RP set I've ever seen that is capable of really great pictures.

So, how much would it cost us GWIV users to get access to these new settings? :D

After calibration, what did you think of the image quality compared to say, a calibrated DLP?

I've read through a lot of this thread and considering doing these tweaks, problem is i'm still somewhat of a newbie and not sure if I should "open things up". I've read the steps but get the feeling that when I attempt it, something will go wrong. Is it fairly easy to do? Also, would opening up the serivce menu and making changes effect my (extended) warranty? thanks.

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
So, how much would it cost us GWIV users to get access to these new settings? :D

After calibration, what did you think of the image quality compared to say, a calibrated DLP?

It all depends of the particular LCD or DLP set. My bet is on DLP in general, but this particular LCD is on par with the best DLPs out there, in my opinion.

For the tweaking....

At this point, I cannot guarantee that my limited experience with one set is universally applicable, but here it goes:

The UMR GWIII tweak of setting SHF0 to 15 across the board (stored separately for each input and scanrate) seemed a good idea for improved resolution.

For MHLC, I arrived at 1 for Component 480p, 720p and 1080i. For HDMI I got 0 (480p), 1 (720p) and 3(1080i).

For MVLS, I arrived at 0 for 480p.

All these SM tweaks requires user menu sharpness to be set above 0 for good resolution. Around 14 seemed right for Component, and around 8 seemed right for HDMI.

I didn't calibrate this set for 480i, since it was not being used.

I set the AXIS for all inputs and scanrates to 0. However, this didn't resolve the red push all the way, as I expected. I had to play around with the color decoder settings in DCP-User. RYB 0, RYR 21, GYB 127 and GYR 165 worked for this particular set, after bumping chroma level up a bit in the user menu. Tint stayed flat.

Please keep in mind that these setting where done after setting grayscale with a color analyzer. If you skip that step, your colors will not look right.

**** Please note: The actual values for your set can only be discovered by doing this with test patterns and filters. I do not recommend just adding these settings in the service menu unless you have a test disk to verify that is looks right. *****

Thanks for the input. :)

I wish I had a colour analyzer so I could properly set the grayscale.

Originally posted by Professor Gascan
Thanks for the input. :)

I wish I had a colour analyzer so I could properly set the grayscale.


You can, for about $2k-$3K.

Or

If your color vision is fairly good in matching color, calibrate a CRT computer monitor with one of the monitor calibration devices and programs (around $200), display similar grayscales on both the TV and the computer monitor, then adjust your cuts and drives on the TV till the grayscale matchs the monitor.

Also keep in mind that someone who is very good at calibration in terms of grayscale, doesn't entirely rely on the equipment. Oftentimes the darker shades in the test pattern doesn't record correctly, so they have to eyeball that one anyway. So even if you spend the big bucks on the equipment, you still have to make some judgement calls at the lower end.

Originally posted by JimP
You can, for about $2k-$3K.

Or

If your color vision is fairly good in matching color, calibrate a CRT computer monitor with one of the monitor calibration devices and programs (around $200), display similar grayscales on both the TV and the computer monitor, then adjust your cuts and drives on the TV till the grayscale matchs the monitor.

Also keep in mind that someone who is very good at calibration in terms of grayscale, doesn't entirely rely on the equipment. Oftentimes the darker shades in the test pattern doesn't record correctly, so they have to eyeball that one anyway. So even if you spend the big bucks on the equipment, you still have to make some judgement calls at the lower end.

You are of course correct when it comes to instruments not being 100%. I personally use the color analyzer to set the grayscale, and then I verify with an optical comparator. Easy to spot errors in the low end with that device. If the instrument and the comparator doesn't agree, I always go with what my eyes tell me. There are so many different types of displays out there, and no single color probe does a good job on all of them.

Sorry for the OT.

Originally posted by csundbom
I did a ISF calibration of a KF-55XS955 yesterday, and most of the information you provided for the GWIII still applies.

This is the first LCD RP set I've ever seen that is capable of really great pictures.
The set Carl is talking about is mine! He did a spectacular job on it (and I have dealt with 2 other ISF calibrators in the past)... I'm particularly happy with the picture now.

Of course, after seeing DVDs with the 720p/1080i upconverting DVD player he used, I have resigned myself to spending more money to get one. I guess the scaler in the TV isn't necessarily that great...

-Terry

Originally posted by TerryJ
The set Carl is talking about is mine! He did a spectacular job on it (and I have dealt with 2 other ISF calibrators in the past)... I'm particularly happy with the picture now.

Of course, after seeing DVDs with the 720p/1080i upconverting DVD player he used, I have resigned myself to spending more money to get one. I guess the scaler in the TV isn't necessarily that great...

-Terry

I am in the market for an upconverting player - which one does Carl use?

Don

Originally posted by dn325ci
I am in the market for an upconverting player - which one does Carl use?

Don

I use the Momitsu V880 Deluxe, since it supports almost every type of connection: Composite, S-Video, Component 480p/720p/1080i, DVI/HDMI 480p/720p/1080i as well as a bunch of PAL formats. Regionfree, no macrovision etc.

The older Momitsu players (non deluxe) has horrible component outputs, so stay away from them unless you are running DVI/HDMI only.

It's a well priced player, and it's portable for calibration jobs. However, there are better (and more expensive) players out there if you want the utmost PQ available, but that's not something I would feel comfortable lugging around on jobs. :-)

Originally posted by csundbom
I use the Momitsu V880 Deluxe, since it supports almost every type of connection: Composite, S-Video, Component 480p/720p/1080i, DVI/HDMI 480p/720p/1080i as well as a bunch of PAL formats. Regionfree, no macrovision etc.

The older Momitsu players (non deluxe) has horrible component outputs, so stay away from them unless you are running DVI/HDMI only.

It's a well priced player, and it's portable for calibration jobs. However, there are better (and more expensive) players out there if you want the utmost PQ available, but that's not something I would feel comfortable lugging around on jobs. :-)

Carl, I'll be spending $300, not >$1K. Is the Momitsu the the PQ/$ ratio in your opinion?

Thanks!
Don

Momitsu has had some real quality problems and your DVI connection is better used for HD assuming your are going to tweak the service mode of your TV for 480i/p.

I would look at a used component output player on ebay. Ones I would consider in increasing price would be Sony DVP-S7000 (quality interlaced player w/o DTS, but a fabulous value), Denon DVD-1600 or Panasonic XP30 (Faroujda processing), Denon DVD-2200 (SiL504 processing) and Denon DVD-3800 (SiL504 processing).

UMR, would you consider the Denon 2200 to be on par (or at least close) to the 3800 and 2900 in terms of picture quality? Thanks.

I have not seen the 2200 or 2900 in action on a Grand Wega, but looking at the specs and listening to others their performance should be similar. The 3800 is generally considered to be a little better than either of those assuming you have all the factory patches installed.

Hi all,

Carl also setup my TV (Sony 42WE610). The TV looks so much better than it did before he worked on it. I was very happy with his knowledge and professionalism. I would recommend Carl to anyone who wanted the best picture that they could possibly have.

Thanks again Carl for your help.

Ed

UMR, Why can I not record any signals from my kdf-60xbr950 with Firewire to my Sony camcorder? Thanks.

Originally posted by mgoblue
UMR, Why can I not record any signals from my kdf-60xbr950 with Firewire to my Sony camcorder? Thanks.

The data streams are not compatible. You would need a D-VHS recorder or something that is equivalent to record from the XBR950.

Newbie here...

I have a kdf-60xbr950. I have had some lamp problems after 3 bulbs blew in the first year. Sony had a auth service agent replace a board in it and extended my warranty by 6 months. I had the set callibrated when I first got it a year ago but I don't think that the guy only calibrated one input for the color.

The problem that I am having is an extremely dark picture on a couple of my inputs. My component HD and DVD are fine. My direct cable, VHS (composite), and ReplayTV(composite) are very dark. I recorded Carnivale on HBO (typically filmed on the darker side) and cannot make out most of the picture during night scenes. When watching live on HD input, no problem. Live on the ReplayTV, VHS, or direct cable, very dark.

I went through umr's step by step and picture is still dark on these inputs. What are the service values that I should be comparing on the different inputs to see if I can improve the picture? OR does it sound like there is an issue with the inputs themselves and the set should be serviced???

Any help would be appreciated...

dmarlette,

Assuming you actually followed the procedure there is nothing else that can be done, but UBOF and UPOF are the settings I would used to alter the brightness and picture level for individual devices. It may not be possible to make everything work with a single picture setting if they use the same input type. I use different picture settings for my three HD sources because the cable box is way off of standard.

umr,

Thanks for the reply. I was starting to believe that there was a problem with the inputs but I started to do a little troubleshooting. I started to isolate the signal coming into the inputs and to make a long story short, I found that the culprit was my Scientific Atlanta 3250HD. No Problem with the component outputs. I was using SVideo into my ReplayTV. From there, SVid to my TV, Yellow composite to my VCR - YComposite to my TV. Removed SVid and went straight composite. Still dark. Went and got one of my SA3200 (non HD) and used the same Coax input and composite output to the ReplayTV. BINGO. Picture back to normal (need to go back and recalibrate).

Called my cable company (WideOpenWest) to request a new HD box. The girl I talked with told me that not only was the DVI disabled but SAtlanta sends these boxes to WOW with the SVid and composite outputs disabled. I can't believe this. I can see the DVI and the firewire, but everything but the component outputs???? Come on. You couldn't hook up anything else to the TV (DVR, VCR, Betamax). I am going to call back in the morning and talk with someone else to see if this is truely the case.

Thanks again for replying... I look forward to browsing these forums and picking up some more knowledge.

Dave

[QUOTE]Originally posted by csundbom
[B]It all depends of the particular LCD or DLP set. My bet is on DLP in general, but this particular LCD is on par with the best DLPs out there, in my opinion.

There is a very good review of the 55 inch Sony LCD against a DLP and it holds up very well. Seems to be one of the best rear projection LCDs out there if not the best. See the most recent issue of Perfect Vision for the review.

Does anyone have any opinion on whether or not taking the ISF Cert course for 950.00 is worth the intitial investment. I'm thinking that all you'd have to do is 5-10 jobs and you'd have your initial Return on Investment. It's in Boston, and I'm thinking about doing it. I'm just wondering if this is something that might be a decent weekend / part time job. Anybody that has any opinion on this matter, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Blackie

Blackngold19

Equipment and full training is a lot more than the $950 for the ISF course.

I recommend that you do some research to find out how much signal generators, color analyzers and training cost (just to get started) and recalculate your return on investment and break even point.

Then consider how you intend to get business. If you have a contact that can send you regular business, then you're ahead of the curve. If not, you'll probably find that advertising is prohibitively expensive and very few people are willing to pay to have their sets calibrated.

Not trying to rain on your parade, but do take an umbrealla. ;-)

That's why I'm concerned. Personally, I wouldn't pay 300.00 to have my set calibrated. The TV costs enough by itself. Just something to mull over. Thanks for the input.

Originally posted by blackngold19
Does anyone have any opinion on whether or not taking the ISF Cert course for 950.00 is worth the intitial investment. I'm thinking that all you'd have to do is 5-10 jobs and you'd have your initial Return on Investment. It's in Boston, and I'm thinking about doing it. I'm just wondering if this is something that might be a decent weekend / part time job. Anybody that has any opinion on this matter, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks,

Blackie

The course is just a very small part of the investment. Expect to spend at least $4000 to cover the initial costs. It is a great evening/week-end job, and you will get back your investment pretty quickly (3-4 months for me), if you live in an area with lots of people buying HDTV sets.

A note of caution however: You have to know of lot about video standards and calibration procedures before you attend this class. The seminar will not teach you everything you will need to know to calibrate a TV. The student are mainly people already working with TV repair, service or installation that have a good background knowledge.

Also, expect a massively steep learning curve after the seminar to get accustomed to all the different sets out there. Spending 10 hours on research before doing a set you never worked on before should be expected.

Saying all this, yes, it's worth it. Just don't expect it to be easy money.

Hi UMR - thank you so much for your time and effort in posting this. I'm new to the board, but have had the 70" XBR for about 11 months. I went into the service menu to perform the tweaks, and the picture is much better!!

The only problem I had was with attempting to adjust AXIS. My TV is set to 3, and it wouldn't let me change it. Whether I hit 3 or 6 on my remote, it stayed at 3. Any idea why this is happening?

Thanks so much for your help.

Mike

Mike,

Thank you for the appreciation.

I am at a loss on your AXIS problem. I had no problems changing this on the XBR's that I have adjusted. The only caveat I can think of is to make sure you have all of the user menu settings set at what I suggested including the Pro picture mode.

Note: If Color Correction is on , I think I noted it changes AXIS to 3... I just was experimenting to see what they were doing with it on....They have another place in the Service Menu to change this ...I keep this feature off ....Adds to much red push I think. In the old days with analog we would add a touch of red setting the gray scale out in the fringe area, but in this case they are doing it in the color axis. Not good to many people use the UMR setting of 0....So this is correct for my & other folk's that looked at my set. I still think UMR is the Best. Did you tweak the Qualia yet ? Waiting for results & everybodys response....keep up the good work....G.B.

Originally posted by TerryJ
Of course, after seeing DVDs with the 720p/1080i upconverting DVD player he used, I have resigned myself to spending more money to get one. I guess the scaler in the TV isn't necessarily that great...

-Terry
I take back what I said... the TV's scaler/deinterlacer is actually really good. I had my Pioneer 478a set to send 480p over component and it looked crappy... but when I sent 480i over component... the Sony did a much better job with deinterlacing. I dare say, looks better than the upconverting dvd player i tried, actually!

-Terry

Originally posted by G.B.
Not good to many people use the UMR setting of 0....So this is correct for my & other folk's that looked at my set.

Are you referring to setting AXIS to 0? If so, why is this "not good"?

Originally posted by G.B.
...Did you tweak the Qualia yet ? Waiting for results & everybodys response....keep up the good work....G.B.

Not yet. It should be a few weeks.

KC- Tecknerd, Axis 0 ....is correct.....Mikejofgd said he could not change his Axis. I think this happened to me when I experimented & got into the Service Menu with Color Correction On...They have another place in the menu to change it from 3, but I keep mine off & did the 0 Axis per UMR'S set up on all inputs......looks great....

HOW can I tell what input resolution my TV is showing? Is there some button on the remote or menu that says 'Input 1 is receiving 720p' or 'input 2 is getting 480p'?

I want to be sure I cover all the resolutions when I go into the service menu to do all these tweaks. Thanks!

(I have the KF60WE610)

After nearly two years of owning my KF50WE610, I finally implemented the famous UMR tweaks. I must say Pro looks fantastic now. However, the blacks still seem a bit more like dark gray. I'm still doing some tweaking on this.

The changes coincided with my purchase of a Deone DVD-3910. I noticed this player exhibited my I term as "grain" in some poorly transferred DVD's. This graininess has been mitigated with the suggested tweaks. I was using Vivid almost on an exclusive basis, but this certainly exaggerated the grain.

There's a setting on the Denon that allows for enhanced black. (BTW, I'm connected @ 720p via DVI) The enhancement definitely gives a more true black. Hoewever, it introduces some crush.

I have only performed the basic tweaks:
UPIC
UBRT
USHP (No affect on DVI)
SHF0
MVLS
MHLC
UBOF
AXIS

I have not attempted any of the other tweaks listed under: Other Service Menu Adjustments That May Be Useful But Are Not Normally Necessary (12/31/03)

Any suggestions??

And finally, thanks to UMR for all your contributions. I hope you're being well paid for your talents.

One last thing I forgot to mention. My GWIII (October 2003) doesn't keep individual profiles for each input. Setting made to Pro are used for Video 1 - 7. Was this feature added with a later firmware upgrade?

Also, I've tested using 480i/p 720p and 1080i. Although differences are minor, I still prefer 720p. Using the THX/DVE test patterns, I do notice an discernible between 720p and 1080i. The latter showing finer lines. However, I'm not sure these differences are discernible in a moving image. At least, not to me.

I bought a 42" GWIII in March of 2004, and did the UMR tweaks a couple of months after that. Blissfully happy with the picture. In the last couple of weeks, I've noticed that the picture is losing a lot of its brightness. Black detail is getting worse, too. Does this mean I'm about to lose my bulb? I've only had it a year! (Probably average 4 hours/day).

In all likelihood, yes as this is exactly what I found with my 60XBR950 back in January, although I found that I didn't lose any black detail, just that the picture overall was getting dimmer and dimmer. In fact the last couple days before the bulb finally went I found the picture in a completely dark room to be extremely pleasing as the absolute black levels were quite good. :D FWIW I believe I got around another 50 hours out of my bulb once I noticed it was getting dim so you probably don't have all that long to go. You may want to consider buying a replacement before it goes so you don't have to go TV-less for a few days as I had to. :p I myself was lucky and was within Sony's warranty but I also bought a spare backup for the future (from Vann's (http://www.vanns.com/shop/servlet/item/features/750521209) to be specific).

My GWIII is almost 2 years old so I think it's time for me to proactively purchase a bulb.

I'm experiencing the dim picture as well.

Having a spare lamp on hand is good insurance in my book.

I recently checked the hour meter and was shocked to see it just over 3500 hours! Can't believe we watch so much. I ordered a new lamp from Sony and put it in. Long ago UMR suggested to do this to use the 90 day warranty period on the new one instead of waiting till the old one dies, when the new one may be out of warranty. Then pop the old one back in and run till failure. Another concern is the extended service agreements may or may not cover the lamp just when you need it. A spare in the closet is just money in the bank.

Dave W.

Originally posted by DaveDubya
I recently checked the hour meter and was shocked to see it just over 3500 hours! Can't believe we watch so much. I ordered a new lamp from Sony and put it in. Long ago UMR suggested to do this to use the 90 day warranty period on the new one instead of waiting till the old one dies, when the new one may be out of warranty. Then pop the old one back in and run till failure. Another concern is the extended service agreements may or may not cover the lamp just when you need it. A spare in the closet is just money in the bank.

Dave W.

I like the idea, myself. But of courese, if you have a service plan covering lamps, it is putting out more money to buy another one. On the other hand, you don't have to wait to have a tech to replace it. It is unlikely they will send you a lamp because you said it's out. Oh, well. Nothing's perfect.

Originally posted by DaveDubya
I recently checked the hour meter and was shocked to see it just over 3500 hours! Can't believe we watch so much. I ordered a new lamp from Sony and put it in. Long ago UMR suggested to do this to use the 90 day warranty period on the new one instead of waiting till the old one dies, when the new one may be out of warranty. Then pop the old one back in and run till failure. Another concern is the extended service agreements may or may not cover the lamp just when you need it. A spare in the closet is just money in the bank.

Dave W.

I like the idea, myself. But of courese, if you do have a service plan covering lamps, it is putting out more money to buy another one. On the other hand, you don't have to wait to have a tech replace it. It is unlikely they will send you a lamp because you said it's out. Oh, well. Nothing's perfect.

First post- newbie

We just purchased a new KF42WE620 Sony and find the picture grainy or out of focus. Our main viewing is from cable, maybe this is normal for this tv.
After reading many of these posts can i use any of URM tweaks to improve this tv. If so, would somebody please provide a link to this information if only for the basic adjustments.

Thank you to URM for his dedication to researching and posting all this information.

Cheers Steve....

And.... POP, the bulb blew. I called Sony yesterday to complain about the dimness, and they wouldn't send me a new bulb unless I got a service guy to come check it out. Then, last night it finally blew. I called again today, and they agreed to send me a new bulb once I fax them my receipt. Oh, and I bought mine 14 months ago, but they said they'd "work with me" since I was only a couple of months out of warranty. Thanks, because I was about to raise hell, since I only have around 2k hours on this set so far.

Cheep,

Exactly who did you talk to that is "working with you"? I just got a bulb failure indication (red light) on my 70XBR950 (purchased in Jan 2004). I'm hoping they'll work with me too.

I just called the 800-282-2848 number. Think maybe the guy's name was Paul, but I bet they all work off the same policy.

Originally posted by Cheep
.........Oh, and I bought mine 14 months ago, but they said they'd "work with me" since I was only a couple of months out of warranty. Thanks, because I was about to raise hell, since I only have around 2k hours on this set so far.

You are one lucky guy. Half the time they don't know what to do first. I was waiting for an exchanged DVD player, and they ran short of new ones.
(Plenty in the stores!)
So I asked for a refund. that took 2 weeks to resolve, but apparently it's on it's way. Someone else with 3 failed players, finally got his refund. It was the total amount he had on his receipt, which included other items besides the DVD player. :)

I just replaced my first bulb. Lasted about 18 months. It's a KDF-60XBR950. I was wondering if there is any setting(s) that needs adjusting or resetting when you put in a new bulb?

Thanks.

If I remember correctly, the calibration can be thrown off when you install a new bulb. I do remember reading that you should wait a while (100 hours?) before you calibrate when the set is new, so I suppose this would also apply in the case of a replacement bulb. Perhaps someone else can chime in.

How does the picture compare now compared to just before the old bulb died?

Well it's not something I can really put my finger on. It may be the TV, it may be the cable, or it just may be my eyes. I thought I was seeing some ghosting on the analog cable channels. Also the first DVD I tried looked a little grainy at first. That also may just have been the DVD as well. However, it's got me now looking hypercritically at the picture searching for any imperfection to try to determine if something has changed or it's just my imagination.

Thanks.

Bulb change

Pretty sure the only thing to check is the greyscale, which may be off a bit with the new lamp. That and image brightness are about it!

Dave W.

I'd calibrate it to an 'Avia' or 'DVE' DVD for brightness, contrast, sharpness, hue and saturation. Check it once every couple of days until it stabilizes. It doesn't take but 10 minutes of your time once you know the routine.

Are these tweaks to the Pro picture mode great for all types of inputs, or mainly for HDTV footage and DVD movies? I have an Xbox that I am trying to decide Vivid or Standard are better it. Or are these tweaks supposed to allow you to use the Pro setting for pretty much all of your inputs?

Yes, I use it for all my inputs. If Standard or Vivid looks better on your games with some adjusting, thats what they would be for. Not all units stay at the same standards even though they try.

I have a KDF-70XBR950, and I'm looking for a way to isolate the individual LCD panels for the primary colors, within the service menu. I'm just wondering if anyone on here has ever had any luck in doing so. Being able to do this would provide a preferable method of setting color saturation, hue, and setting color decoder settings.

I have found the settings of GON, BON, and RON under the DCP-INT header (items 24,25, and 26). These have possible values of 1 or 0 in the register, all set to 1. Setting values to 0 on any of these seems to have no effect.

I found a previous post in here from UMR that basically said these settings did not work.

Has anyone had any luck with these settings, or an alternate method of getting a single primary color up?

Kc Tecknerd, Everybody http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6311561#post6311561 Sorry look here for two reply's

Lamp Time = Enter Service Menu , for UMR's Settings You Up Display on Button 2 of your remote. In this case You Down Display by using 5 button. Look for Option E ....First thing should be Number 0 .... Lamp Time ..... 000402 = 402 Hr's. This format looks funny but do not try to change anything here. This is for a reading only. If your lamp blows it is like the miles on Your car . Take a reading with Your New Lamp so you can keep track of Lamp hours. Summer I use High Altitude to keep the lamp Cooler . On some models Power Saver , Cinema Black lowers your watts on the lamp for hope longer life ?

Does anyone know if UMR's tweaks need to be "Re-applied" after replacement of the light engine on the KF50WE610.

I have had problems with the display presenting colored blobs (dust?) all over the screen and the Tweeter service tech is going to replace the light engine. I have not had the buzzing issue until a few days after the tech left at which point the bulb completely failed. Now my set is dead for 2 more weeks until the tech gets back here with the replacement light engine and a new bulb.

I don't think it will affect your Settings but you should recalibrate nonetheless.

Does any one know how to get into the "self-diagnosis" procedure? Thanks.

I'm going by memory here so it may not be 100% right but as I recall it's very close to how you get into the service menu (which is display - 5 - vol+ - power). I think it may be display - 5 - vol- - power.

I'd be interested in hearing what other GWIII owners' settings are in the DCP-USER and DCP-ADJ1 categories.
I made all the changes that UMR recommended.

I don't have the equipment or the know-how to measure gray scale so I started out with UMR's tweaked gray scale adjustment settings as a baseline. Then I just viewed the gray scale ramps on Avia and noticed some red in the lower frequencies and some green in the higher frequencies. I made adjustments by eye until I didn't perceive any tint in the gray scale ramps. I ended up making the following changes:

RCUT - reduced from 255 to 246
GCUT - reduced from UMR's 242 to 240

When viewing the color decoder check test pattern, I found I still had red push (roughly 12%). Green was also at - 5. So in the DCP-USER category I made the following changes with good results:

RYB - left this at 24
RYR - reduced from 91 to 35
GYB - left this at 92
GYR - increased from 127 to 165

I've watched 6 DVD's so far since doing these tweaks. The first two DVD's I chose were 'Cher - The Farewell Tour' because of all the bright colors, as well as 'The Eagles - Farewell I Tour'. I am very pleased with the results. OTA HD looks very good.

Any comments or feedback would be welcome.

YMMV - in fact it probably will - as settings on my 60XBR950 are quite different from what I came up with on my brother's 50WE610, but what follows are my grayscale and color decoder settings. These aren't by eye but were measured with a Gretag Macbeth Eye-One Pro sensor and AccuCal's (umr's) i1 Pro DCS calibration software to minimize error. The grayscale in particular is very accurate to D65 except for very low IRE levels, which tend a bit towards blue (10 IRE measures around 7200K with these settings on my set but this is still far better than OOTB).

Note that most of the below user-menu settings - certainly the numerical ones I list here can be saved as the defaults for Pro mode by putting them into DCP-USER in the appropriate variables there. Also yes I know a decent number of the settings I list aren't available on the WE610 TV's. :)

User menu: Pro
Contrast: 59
Brightness: 35
Color: 34
Hue: 31
Temp: Warm
NR: Off
Mild: Off
Clear White: Off
Detail Enhancer: Off
Color Corrector: Off
Black Corrector: Off
Gamma Corrector: Off
White Balance: unchanged
Cinema Black: On

DCP-ADJ1 (grayscale portions):
RDRV: 143
GDRV: 134
BDRV: 138
RCUT: 252
GCUT: 245
BCUT: 238

DCP-USER (color decoder portions):
(AXIS: 0)
RYB: 0
RYR: 30
GYB: 106
GYR: 145

Googer Hi, On this set up You changed your gray scale in the DCP-ADJ1 & keep the White balance at default, with them not having the white balance mode on the we 610 ? I have been thinking about doing this to. Then zero axis then tweak the four setting to get it closer. Good idea. This settingds you listed was on your XBR 950 ? Please pass on any other updated tips you have done or did to make an even better setting.

Googer Hi, On this set up You changed your gray scale in the DCP-ADJ1 & keep the White balance at default, with them not having the white balance mode on the we 610 ? I have been thinking about doing this to.Correct, though that wasn't the reason why. I did it in the service menu instead because the control is much finer so I was able to get it more accurate than was possible with doing this in the user menu. :) As I said, when I was calibrating my brother's WE610, I actually ended up with different numbers for the cuts and drives (not surprising but exactly how much different I don't recall off the top of my head). I do remember that I wasn't able to get the grayscale tracking as dead-on as I was able to on my XBR950 (though his WE610 precalibration was actually much better than my XBR950 was precalibration) and that after calibration his set wanted to skew towards red instead of towards green and / or blue that most of these sets tends to want to do but it was still somewhat better than before I did anything...

Geekspeak ahead (for reference on how much I was able to improve the grayscale tracking on these sets) - on my brother's WE610, the delta ECMC calculated by umr's i1 Pro DCS software (basically just a measure of how far off you are from 6500K for a given measurement - anything under 5 is considered pretty good) went from an average of around 4 (so already pretty to very good), though it tended to have red sag a bit at low-to-mid IRE levels and had green a bit high at the the highest levels, to an average of around 3 (so only a small improvement in error actually but as I said, his set was good to begin with), with me getting rid of the red sag in the low-mid levels (replaced by a bit of a spike at the lowest levels) and reducing (but not quite eliminating) the green spike at the highest levels. On my XBR950 the difference was much more dramatic as its grayscale tracking went from an average delta ECMC of around 12 (quite high) with it quite blue across the board and tending towards extremely blue at the lowest IRE levels to an average delta ECMC of just 1 (almost perfect accuracy) with grayscale tracking pretty much dead-on except for it tending slightly towards green at the lowest levels. Also looking at my results in Excel here my 10 IRE reading is closer to 6500 than I thought it was - it's not around 7200K, it's ~6850K. :DThen zero axis then tweak the four setting to get it closer. Good idea. This settingds you listed was on your XBR 950 ? Please pass on any other updated tips you have done or did to make an even better setting.Yes, set AXIS to 0 (or any value really; it doesn't really matter as long as you remember which number you set it to) and then do the other 4 settings. Then when you want to apply the tweaked color decoder settings to different inputs / resolutions, you just need to set AXIS and not the other 4. This is something you don't really need to think about at all for the grayscale as those aren't tied to input / resolution but rather picture mode (i.e., Pro mild mode off, etc.) so as long as you use the same picture mode for all your inputs you don't need to worry about doing the grayscale multiple times for your different inputs. :)

So I thought UMR's greyscale settings were agreed as being the proper settings for 6500K. Now are we saying that they need to be changed on the GWIII? Were they wrong all along?
What does UMR have to say about this?

All I know is that with UMR's gray scale settings, I could see red and green tint in the gray scale ramp and you shouldn't see any tint. He states that these settings were correct for the display he calibrated. I'm sure it's display dependent and most likely depends on room lighting and the viewer's eyes. Also - everyone sees color differently.

Most settings vary by each particular unit this includes gray scale. I never said anyone should copy these settings. Adjusting gray scale without quality instrumentation is difficult to do well without experience.

I think the gray scale settings were a very good starting point though.

Googer , Well said . For anyone new to the forum UMR 's settings are better than Factory, Googer did the same but in the service menu not user menu. UMR , had quick settings in the user menu that was close & a extra menu setting they give the XBR. Sony sets all service menu's & for all sets this is an (average). Quality control looks at every so many sets & checks to see if they are still ok. Sometime's they read forums,checks, notices this is better. Ah...They do an update. If you don't think so look at the XBR 1. Sony added more settings in the user menu in Pro to do what in the past you did in service menu but not all of them.To get a True Pro job You must get it Calibrated with equipment for Your set. UMR would be the best because he is experianced with this kind of display. Plus if you do it everyday your better at it as well. UMR Keep up the Good work....

Googer, I don't think , (I have been looking in my notes) , that I had your gray scale settings. When did you do this ? Do you still have your MID 5 all 0 except for MHFM & MVFM at 2 , POP at 92 on everything ? Have any other Updates ? Have you tried ULTI in the DCP-ADJ2 on Standard Definition ? I tried to get Vidkid to work on it & he did for short time . If you would Please experiment with it if have time. It normally is 0 . I need to look I tried 1 or 2 I think & it had less filtering. 3 is to much , lookd like over sharp. If I come in like I do on one Sat. Reciever on S Video it looks good with DRC Adjusted to 1 to 1 on reality & clarity. I have another Sat. Recciever with DVI & no control in DRC looked good with ULTI 1 OR 2 but need to do more. I know in the future as more goes HD won't need but if you have a chance or any other settings to help Standard Definition this would be a great help. I know some was trying NRVL but I did not see much a change. G.B.

I haven't played with any of the filtering stuff in the service menu anytime recently so what you have should still be current (including all MID5 and POP settings). Maybe if I get bored I'll try playing around with the ULTI values (mine is probably 0 right now). As I recall I never saw any difference at all with different values of NRVL but I'll look at that too when I get a chance. :)

The grayscale is something I did relatively recently - in the late August-early September timeframe (this year), when I took advantage of umr's then-introductory pricing on his i1 Pro DCS calibration software and combined that with the purchase of a Gretag Macbeth Eye-One Pro spectroradiometer from e-Bay. I'm extremely happy with the results and would still recommend that anyone else that wants to get into trying out self-calibrations go this route, especially if you have multiple TV's and / or have friends and family with TV's to calibrate. :)

Looking on the manual, I have also wanted to try some of the settings they use different for Standard & Vivid to see if that cuts some of the filtering . Thanks for Your Tips . Will try & let you know out come.

Googer, That looks good . How did you come up with the color decoder settings again ? I noticed you had that setting for a bit of time. You give them to me before. Gray scale a lot closer.

I agree with Googer. Either purchase an EyeOne and some software or have me come by personally. I can't think of any better choices. :)

Googer, That looks good . How did you come up with the color decoder settings again ? I noticed you had that setting for a bit of time. You give them to me before. Gray scale a lot closer.There was a method to my madness when I came up with those settings, which were in fact done pretty much by eye. :D I used my HTPC to throw up patterns of colors such as yellow and red next to one another at the same level (I think I used 50 IRE at the time) and reduced the cuts and drives of blue and green (in this example) all the way down to zero to come as close as possible to having red being the only color as active. Then I would play with the appropriate service menu setting to get the red and yellow patches to both just show up as the same color red (and I still used my color filters from Avia as well since as I said, green and blue were still slightly on). Repeat tests like this with different patterns and different combinations of colors (remembering that user-menu color and hue are what you need to use for blue) and eventually I came up with those settings.

Fast-forward to when I got my Eye-One Pro and I found that this method actually worked very well when I measured my colors (this time using 75 IRE as is considered more standard for this stuff but I didn't know any better at the time, and umr will probably chime in saying it's actually best to check these at multiple IRE's :p), well enough that I haven't bothered to play with the color decoder any more since my secondary colors (yellow, magenta, cyan) are already very close to where they should be. I could probably improve them a very small amount but I was already happy with color reproduction as it was after doing the above; I had really gotten the Eye-One because I knew my grayscale was off and I wanted a good way to calibrate that accurately. :)

Thanks Googer....Keep us posted on any updates...G.B.

So, if we don't have a lightmeter, can we state that changing the following suggested settings for a we610 model improves greyscale?

RCUT – 255 to 246
GCUT – 242 to 240

Or, are should we stick with the original UMR suggested settings?

Do you have a test DVD ? What does your gray scale look to you right now? Look at the Bars from white to black. Does any have a tint of blue, green, red. Have a female look to. They can see color better than us men. Ah Thats why we get equipment to look at it. To have the best color tracking , you must have a right on the nose (Gray Scale). Then next you must make your Color Decoder right on the nose. Black Level , Picture Contrast, Gamma, in the old days Focus. Now we got the perfect Picture . Ah the old days Purity , Converge, It is so much faster now. Do a A. B. compare & see what looks best .

Joe, there will be variation from display to display. I used umr's settings as a starting point and then made adjustments until I got rid of the tint in my gray scale.

Googer , Did not know if You noticed I PM'ed You ?

Anybody else have some grayscale & decoder settings ? KC Technerd ? Like dusterscott Did. You use any equipment , or just filters & DVD ?

I did not adjust the grayscale settings other than temporarily turning down the appropriate colors in combination with the filters to set the color decoder.

I wrote down the color decoder settings before I adjusted them, but I neglected to write down what the final settings are. I'll have to post them the next time I'm in the service menu.

Great, this is what makes things fun on the forum. Happy Holiday's

UMR, Sent You a Personal Email.

Googer I sent You a PM.

Does anyone have a list of the service menu parameters that relate to screen geometry and what they actually do? I've done all the PQ adjustments that were recommended at the beginning of this thread. Now I'd like to adjust my screen geometry. I know you can really screw up a tv if you don't know what you're doing, but I have recorded all the factory default parameter settings so I can always go back to default if I make a mistake. Is it worth getting a service menu for the GWIII? If so, where can I purchase one? I'd heard that it was useless but if it at least explains what each parameter does, that would be helpful. Some MID1 parameters are obvious such as left-right, up-down, right-stretch/squeeze, bottom-stretch/squeeze etc. There are lots of parameters that I don't see any changes going on when I change the values. Any help would be greatly appreciated. If anyone has had their set calibrated by a reputable calibrator, I'd be interested in knowing what the values for the various screen geometry parameters were set to.

This man did a lot of work on this...... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=360879 It is in the Popular threads http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=481634 Have a look.....

Thanks so much G. B! This definitely helps a lot!

Well, I finished my screen geometry adjustments last night. I found that I could make all my adjustments in MID4 so different settings could be saved for each resolution/screen format. The results are excellent. MID1 was driving me nuts because a lot of the adjustments were global (all resolutions and screen formats were being affected as I made changes). So I put all the MID1 values back to default and made all my changes in MID4. And there were only 4 parameters to worry about (vertical position and size, and horizontal position and size). When watching Aliens II last night I got a very thin bar top and bottom. I imagine overscan varies from DVD-to DVD so I'll watch several more DVD's this weekend and might adjust vertical screen size slightly to hide the thin black bars if needed. You barely notice it from where I sit but I must admit that I'm a perfectionist.

Keep us posted. We are always interested in new settings. Post some what was fact original & your changes. This also helps you log the original if something goes wrong. tell us the results. What grayscale & color decoder settings did you land on. g.b.

I am still at the grayscale and color decoder settings that I previously posted. The following are my settings for picture geometry...

Oppo OPDV971H DVD Player set at Wide 480p, Sony GWIII set at Normal

DHPL 208 --> 170
DHSL 217 --> 236
DVPL 43 --> 44
DVSL 116 --> 118

Oppo OPDV971H DVD Player set at 720p Wide Squeeze Mode, Sony GWIII locked in Full Mode

DHPL 164 --> 144
DHSL 153 --> 163
DVPL 47 --> 36
DVSL 171 --> 175

Oppo OPDV971H DVD Player set at 1080i Wide Squeeze Mode, Sony GWIII locked in Full Mode

DHPL 144 --> 102
DHSL 230 --> 246
DVPL 36 --> 31
DVSL 129 --> 133

These settings are all through the DVI input and the parameters I'm changing are in MID4.

Scott, What set & size do you have. in the post they & I have Myt 4/3 default set to wide mode & the other set the same. how some of the post settings worked that he gave was to start dvd & switch it to wide mode. Like you noticed it always starts in Full for DVD.

I've got the 50" KF-50WE610.

Ok, Thats A Good One ...

Thanks! I made a couple minor changes yesterday which I noted in the 'reason for edit' box. I was seeing a thin area at the top of the screen that was not part of the picture on ABC and NBC upconverted SD programming yesterday. I imagine some of this stuff is source-dependant because I wasn't seeing that when playing any full screen dvd's.

I went through my greyscale using DVE and noticed that there was significant red and green push on it, to the tune that I actually adjusted values significantly from what others are posting for a GWIII (42we610) on this thread, as follows:
RDRV = 110
GDRV = 130
BDRV = 102
RCUT = 242
GCUT = 235
BCUT = 250
AXIS=1
RYB=8
RYR=25
GYB=40
GYR=127

My steps were to set to UMR's settings and then adjust each cut and drive down based on what kind of tint I was seeing in the greyscale (significant red and some green), to the point that resulted in a nice grey colour across the entire pattern with no tint of any kind (minor green that I could not remove). The other thing was after finishing this, I had to increase contrast (UPIC) to the maximum (63). *Note: I then had to redo the greyscale slightly.
Even with this setting I was not seeing any blooming.


My questions are:

a. Any comments on what seems to be significantly different greyscale settings from what UMR suggests?

b. Am I limiting myself from setting the contrast higher? As stated, with these greyscale changes setting contrast to the maximum still doesn't result in blooming, which begs the question could I set it higher if I tried to find a perfect combo for greyscale at higher settings (not sure if possible)?

I want to start by saying thank you for providing all the in depth information UMR. It is great.

Second:

I wanted to ask anyone if they know the Category/Item#(or Code) that would be used to adjust the geometry. My 60" is a little bit of a trapezoid (smaller at top of screen) and it is slightly twisted counter-clockwise also.

Is there perhaps a listing of all the different settings from the Service Menu?

Thanks for any help you can provide.

c l i f f

I went through my greyscale using DVE and noticed that there was significant red and green push on it, to the tune that I actually adjusted values significantly from what others are posting for a GWIII (42we610) on this thread, as follows:
RDRV = 110
GDRV = 130
BDRV = 102
RCUT = 242
GCUT = 235
BCUT = 250
AXIS=1
RYB=8
RYR=25
GYB=40
GYR=127

My steps were to set to UMR's settings and then adjust each cut and drive down based on what kind of tint I was seeing in the greyscale (significant red and some green), to the point that resulted in a nice grey colour across the entire pattern with no tint of any kind (minor green that I could not remove). The other thing was after finishing this, I had to increase contrast (UPIC) to the maximum (63). *Note: I then had to redo the greyscale slightly.
Even with this setting I was not seeing any blooming.


My questions are:

a. Any comments on what seems to be significantly different greyscale settings from what UMR suggests?

b. Am I limiting myself from setting the contrast higher? As stated, with these greyscale changes setting contrast to the maximum still doesn't result in blooming, which begs the question could I set it higher if I tried to find a perfect combo for greyscale at higher settings (not sure if possible)?

Anyone able to comment on this?

Joe , How did you do your color decoder settings ? You must see red good the way you are cutting it back in the grayscale. Remember Red in the gray scale does not help Red Push. RDRV, GDRV,BDRV would be for the white of a B & W picture, RCUT, GCUT,BCUT, is the dark area. The best way is you know what your set looked like, set to UMRS settings & see what you got. Then tweak with your test DVD for the best to your room lighting & eye. The drive will change cut, up & down so go back & see how they look.The setting on your decoder looks good for working on Red Push , but how did you tell your set to go to Axis 1 in SD & Hd ? That is in the DCP- USER Axis is what tells your set what setting to go to. Factory is SD Axis 0, HD Axis 2, if you turn on Color Corrector in the PRO menu it goes to Axis 3. This has to much red push.

GB,
Not quite sure I follow what you are recommending.
Main point is with UMR's settings my greyscale had noticeable red tint to it so I adjusted RDRV and RCUT down until it was removed, and then adjusted GDRV and GCUT to adjust the slight green in there too. I was left with a greyscale that was, well grey...without any other colour tinting it.
For the decoder settings, I use AXIS 1 for DVD and AXIS 2 for HD input. I just put up an SMPTE colour pattern, turned down each colour in the greyscale I was not adjusting, looked through the DVE colour filter, and adjusted the decoder settings for that colour until all areas looked uniform in colour (blocks matched background). Then went on to the next colour.

Hope this clarifies. My main question is about if I am really off in left field here as far as the greyscale settings, and that maybe someone here can tell me for sure that it can't be accurate, but I tell you I see red in the greyscale with the recommended settings from UMR. Substantial red tint.

Remember on color temp cool , neutral, warm,. cool will look blue, neutral mid no tint a pure B & W picture to you , warm will be red tint. I use warm to keep near 6500k, some use neutral. Adding blue makes things look brighter so that is why they use it on Vivid.

I wanted to ask anyone if they know the Category/Item#(or Code) that would be used to adjust the geometry. My 60" is a little bit of a trapezoid (smaller at top of screen) and it is slightly twisted counter-clockwise also.


Any geometry problems have to be in the optic system, as the lcd panels are not adjustable. You might try removing the top cover and shim the mirror a bit. That is all I can remember reading about. Also try searching this thread for other ideas.

Dave W

Remember on color temp cool , neutral, warm,. cool will look blue, neutral mid no tint a pure B & W picture to you , warm will be red tint. I use warm to keep near 6500k, some use neutral. Adding blue makes things look brighter so that is why they use it on Vivid.

So do you recommend calibrating greyscale to no tint on neutral setting and then moving it to warm when done that and then do the colour decoder?

That is he best way . you can go to cool-warm & see if you are good in the middle with no red blue or green tint to the picture in the white & dark area.

Of course it's also worth noting that your perception of gray appearing blue vs. red has most likely been colored by years of seeing blue grays since that's how they are on most TV's out there and even most computer monitors out-of-the-box (since most monitors default to 9300K instead of 6500K - go ahead and check the color temp settings on yours ;)). It's quite possible warm appears red to someone because they're so used to seeing blue grays and they simply don't know any better.

One way you can 'untrain' your eyes is to switch to Warm and force yourself to leave it there regardless of what you initially think of it. Over time (and I mean in as little as 10 minutes), your eyes and brain will start adjusting to thinking that what initially appeared very red to your eyes is indeed a neutral gray. Once you've recentered your perception of a neutral gray, the gray thay you previously perceived as being neutral will now appear very blue to you, probably moreso than the Warm gray initially appeared red. :p BTW, I'll also note that when I calibrated my brother's 50WE610, his set on Warm was already pretty close to D65, so if your 42WE610 is anything like his was, your grayscale will actually be pretty accurate (with the default SM grayscale settings). :)

Thanks Googer, well said. I always tell folks to take it a step at a time, it is harder for the one that says they like cool. But this is correct warm is the best all & all for the best color tracking.

Thanks guys, that helps a lot. I thought the whites looked a little too "bright" at my current settings (i.e. daylight reflecting off of people's faces seemed too be brighter than the colour in their faces. I'll have to redo as discussed here.

Joe, This is what makes this fun......I have done this for years , but did not think we could check notes with people all over the country on setting up TV's.....

Any geometry problems have to be in the optic system, as the lcd panels are not adjustable. You might try removing the top cover and shim the mirror a bit. That is all I can remember reading about. Also try searching this thread for other ideas.

Dave W


Thanks Dave. Anyone know why my mirrors might not be square. It seams like this might be something I would want a service person to adjust. I mean, I am a mechanical person, but I guess my question is how sensitive are these mirror adjustments, and how would I know if I am going in the right direction?

Trial and error?

c l i f f

Cliff, I had a tech come out to look at geometry issues on my 42" 3LCD Sony and was told that there's no way to adjust out trapezoidal or tilt errors. Too bad because my SXRD's picture is a hair "twisted" also.

Cliff, I had a tech come out to look at geometry issues on my 42" 3LCD Sony and was told that there's no way to adjust out trapezoidal or tilt errors. Too bad because my SXRD's picture is a hair "twisted" also.


Major Bummer.....

I guess I'll drop my next 3.5g's on a projector or flat panel instead of another projection LCD TV. I love the picture, but this should be an adjustable feature.

Oh well, it's working for now, and it only effects my use with the MacMini HTPC.

c l i f f

Are these geometry issues something that happen over time, or is a situation where your TV either has a problem from the beginning, or it doesn't.

-------------PROBLEM SOLVED-------------

I discovered my DVI cable was just a tad bit loose. Really sensitive connection apperently. So I have it screwed in place tightly now, and there has been no flickers since then.

I also updated the MacMini HTPC to 1gig of RAM, a much needed improvement.

I'll leave my original post, in case anyone is looking for service menu numbers for the KF-60WE610 and MacMini.

c l i f f

Original Post
-------------------------------------------------
Hmmmm....

My KF-60WE610 is flickering off and on while connected to my mac mini via DVI.

Any thoughts as to what is going on?

These are the numbers I have changed in the service menu to get the overscanning sized up to the screen.

MID4
DVPL 47-->11
DHSL 153-->168
DHPL 164-->136
DVSL 171-->188

MID1
MDHS 233-->234
MDVS NO CHANGE
DHPH 103-->105
DVPH NO CHANGE

Any thoughts as to why my my screen is flickering off then on randomly. It only does this on the DVI input. S-Vid and Component seem to be working completely normal still.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

c l i f f

Are these geometry issues something that happen over time, or is a situation where your TV either has a problem from the beginning, or it doesn't.
Either it has it from the get-go or it doesn't. However, a tech came out to my home yesterday to clean some dust blobs (aka "crop circles") out of my GWIV. He got all the dust out, but had to remove the optical engine to do so. When he replaced the optical engine, the geometry of the projecting image changed. Initially it was keystoned, but now the top and right sides of the screen are perfectly aligned with the bezel, but the bottom and left are slightly angled.

This just goes to show that even the slightest movement of the optical engine can affect the geometry. It also shows that by moving the optical engine you could potentially fix any geometric errors, but since the guts of the TV have to be removed to access the engine, I don't think turning the TV on in that state would be a great idea.

Anyway, the tech told me that Sony's tolerance for geometric problems is 1/4", and mine is about 3/16", so I suppose I'll live with it.

Years ago, when my GWIII was new, I applied UMR's tweaks to all inputs except DVI and they worked great. This evening, I tweaked the DVI input for the first time, and it too looks great. I have one question however. Should MVLS and MHLC be changed for the 480i and 480p scan rates on the DVI input? The step by step instructions do not say to change them on DVI, but do say to change them on all other inputs. I accidentally changed them. If they should not be changed, can anyone tell me the factory default settings? I'm embarassed to admit I did not write them down.

I have been attempting to correctly calibrate the color of my WE GWIII using red/green/blue color filters and DVE on the Pro picture mode. While I can get the blue set correctly using the color user setting, the red and greens are way off. They aren't so bad on the Standard though. Any way I can individually adjust these settings to get all three the way they should be? I tried using the RDRV and RCUT, but they didn't seem to make a difference.

If You have the Grayscale good first...Then to get the Color Decoder would be what You need to set. Axis 0 was what gets it close on SD & HD. Some have done more settings to get it closer. Googer has the best settings for this. But RYB,RYR,GYB,GYR, is what fine tunes Your Red Push & Green to get ir right.

Hey, I am having the same problem as Bloodsent. I cannot get the green to adjust properly on my WE using the DVE color filters and disc. Is there anyone that can give some advice? All the guidelines set in the beginning of this thread don't seem to help my color troubles at all.

I've posted results for a GWIII calibration I did with SpyderTV, GetGray and Radar's spreadsheet. Any feedback would be appreciated.

GWIII Calibration (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8613205#post8613205)

Thanks Joe ......

Hey, have I ruined my TV? Got 60" GWIII XBR. Was in a hurry cleaning up the viewing room the other day, company coming. Anyway noticed some splotches on the screen, probably from the kids. Wouldn't come off with the dry soft cloth, so I spayed some windex on the screen. I total forgot about the special coating. Left some smudges so I panicked. Called the dealer. Didn't have much suggestion, but I had some special eyeglass cleaner my son uses for his glasses. The dealer said that would be ok. Just wondering if I've done irreparable damage to the screen.

Thanks.

I hope someone can answer this question:

Is it possible that someone messing with the service menu for the Sony GWIII 60" to mess it up so badly that it cannot be fixed by a technician?

I assume that a competent technician has a 'reset switch' or something that can restore the defaults, right?

Yes, the TV can be reset to a default setting. But this default setting may or may not be the same setting as your TV's original setting, as each TV probably had to be individually tested/adjusted in the factory.

But the default setting is a good starting point for tweaking the TV and a competent technician should be able to properly calibrate the TV.

do you have to read off a list of a bunch of settings and manually change them or is there a quick way (unplugging it for awhile?)

Do you mean how to reset the TV to its default setting? Yes, you can go into the service menu and with a certain sequence of pressing the buttons from the remote, the TV can be reset.

But this is a very risky move, because it is irreversible.

Anyone have a problem where the TV refuses to turn on? The green light blinks for about 15 seconds, then back to the red light bliking...then solid red light...picture never comes up. I hear something inside starting when i first turn it on, then eventually all noises stop and i never get any picture what so ever. Is this an obvious indication of anything? I have an extended warranty until 6=07, will call on monday. I'm sure i'm about to find the "catch" involved in extended warranties from 3rd party companies.

Time for a new bulb.

is that the usual symptom? i dont mind buying the new bulb, but would hate to pay that and find out its unrelated. I've had this happen a few times in the last few years, but if i waited a few min's it always worked, this time its been almost 2 days and no luck.

is that the usual symptom? i dont mind buying the new bulb, but would hate to pay that and find out its unrelated. I've had this happen a few times in the last few years, but if i waited a few min's it always worked, this time its been almost 2 days and no luck.

From what I've experienced that's normal behavior (others have had their bulb fail all of a sudden with a big bang). Eventually when it won't come back on it's time to replace the bulb.

Thanks. Is it pretty easy to change? Aka...a few screws and a plug? :-)

Thanks. Is it pretty easy to change? Aka...a few screws and a plug? :-)

I've only had to do it once so far and didn't have any problems, just follow the directions in the owner's manual.

Thanks. Is it pretty easy to change? Aka...a few screws and a plug? :-)

Try page 105 starting at post 3142

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=309559&page=105&pp=30

Thanks for the info!

I've been meaning to ask this question: has anybody followed umr after he purchased a new display and disappeared from this tread? He was so instrumental in getting this started, with his knowledge and posting so much good advice.

Yeah, he now owns a Samsung HLS xx88 display. He says it's the best out there... and I guess I trust him because I just ordered one.

Hi, folks. There's nothing like knowing what was going on in the mind of the firmware engineer that constructed these parameters. Some arguments one can figure out, but others are cryptic. Where might one find complete documentation? Manufactures know folks can implode their TV by goofing up the firmware and do not release this information saving it for manufacturing ops use only. Perhaps there is no officially released documentation?

Thanks for all the info provided, otherwise. I fixed an RGB misalignment by tweaking one parameter after another until I found the right one. A nomenclature key would have made things go much faster.

Cheers,

Folks,

My KDF-60XBR950 appears to have developed a slight problem. This just started yesterday. It has developed what I can best describe as brighter "flare" spot on the lower edge of the screen, just to the left of center. It has a slight blueish tint to it. If what is being displayed in the area is totally black, you cannot set the artifact, but anything else you can. I'd say it's about 12 inches wide and 2-3 inches high. Any ideas what this might be?

Thanks.

Anyone have the link to the PDF it seems to be broken now.

Anyone have the link to the PDF it seems to be broken now.

Here you go.

Many thanks...you are the best

Thanks Dave. Anyone know why my mirrors might not be square. It seams like this might be something I would want a service person to adjust. I mean, I am a mechanical person, but I guess my question is how sensitive are these mirror adjustments, and how would I know if I am going in the right direction?

Trial and error?

c l i f f


Well it has been a long time since I had to come back to AVSFORUM, but here I am again.

I am now looking at a screen that is completely overrun by GREEN. Is this possible to fix in the service menu, or is my TV finally giving out on me? Is there anyone out there who is still tweaking these monitors?

Folks,

My KDF-60XBR950 appears to have developed a slight problem. This just started yesterday. It has developed what I can best describe as brighter "flare" spot on the lower edge of the screen, just to the left of center. It has a slight blueish tint to it. If what is being displayed in the area is totally black, you cannot set the artifact, but anything else you can. I'd say it's about 12 inches wide and 2-3 inches high. Any ideas what this might be?

Thanks.

Same exact problem that started for me. Been there about a month now. Mine's in the full left bottom corner.

Same exact problem that started for me. Been there about a month now. Mine's in the full left bottom corner.

Just read in another forum post that this is a bad optical block problem. To have a technician fix it costs around $1,100-$1,300.

Personally, given how old the technology is now, I think I'll spend the money on a new TV.

Just read in another forum post that this is a bad optical block problem. To have a technician fix it costs around $1,100-$1,300.

Personally, given how old the technology is now, I think I'll spend the money on a new TV.

Woah, ok, did some digging, and glad I did. If you call Sony support at 888-649-7669 with this issue (blue glow), they will either fix the issue for free now, or sell you one of two TV's at cost. Apparently the cost of the optical block is so much, they would rather give you a new TV at their cost. You get your choice of either the KDL 52V4100 $753 or the KDL 52W4100 for $893, both these TV's are currently selling for over $2000.

Woah, ok, did some digging, and glad I did. If you call Sony support at 888-649-7669 with this issue (blue glow), they will either fix the issue for free now, or sell you one of two TV's at cost. Apparently the cost of the optical block is so much, they would rather give you a new TV at their cost. You get your choice of either the KDL 52V4100 $753 or the KDL 52W4100 for $893, both these TV's are currently selling for over $2000.

When did they tell you this? I just called & the guy told me SONYs extended warranty on the optical block issue expired in June (or July I forgot)

I want a KDL 52W4100!!!!:D

I ordered mine in November, and it just so happened my sister had the same TV. She ordered hers in the first week of december.

My new TV arrives tomorrow morning.

I ordered mine in November, and it just so happened my sister had the same TV. She ordered hers in the first week of december.

My new TV arrives tomorrow morning.

How exactly did your conversation go? The guy I spoke to shot me down right away!

Did they send a tech to come take a look at your old tv?

Man, I want that new one...let us know how it performs!

When did they tell you this? I just called & the guy told me SONYs extended warranty on the optical block issue expired in June (or July I forgot)

I want a KDL 52W4100!!!!:D


I called as well and for the GW3 is did expire last year.

How exactly did your conversation go? The guy I spoke to shot me down right away!

Did they send a tech to come take a look at your old tv?

Man, I want that new one...let us know how it performs!

Well, I explained I was having a problem with my TV. I told the lady that I had a blue glow in one corner (the bottom left). She asked me to try a bunch of things like unplug, change inputs, channels, etc. I told her it was there at all occasions (except when the tv was off) and she then said she had an extended warranty offer to offer me, which was to replace the tv, or have it fixed.

BTW, got the new TV. It's night and day. Amazing what 3 years of technology enhancements can bring to a TV. Crystal clear, and bright. Wall-e looks beautiful.