LG LST-3410A Review and Discussion [Text View] - Page 14

shugazer9

12-26-05, 01:21 AM

I bought one of these at CC on closeout and while i love the PQ and functionality of the unit, i have had some problems with it. When setting it up, the setup screen was frozen. After monkeying around with it i was able to enter zip code, etc and download the TV Guide. Now, after a week or so, the TV Guide & VCR Plus pages are intermittently frozen up. All i get is a small screen where the current channel is displayed: the rest is digital garbage. This seems to occur most when the unit is on for a while, but has happened on start up. I really want this box to work-there is nothing like it out there. I can get a CC extended warranty-should i even bother or is this just going to get worse? Are there units CC can exchange this for that will be more stable? This was a 4.51 version with i believe 1.15 software.

Jan J

12-26-05, 10:08 AM

Try this... Go into TV Guide channel edit. and REMOVE all the channels you are not likely to ever record.... Leaving less data to have to download....
Then go in at re-setup the box... selecting an altogether different Zip code, but same antenna configuration... And turn it off for a while... Then, re-enter YOUR ZipCode and let it sit overnight again...
I had random TV Guide lockups, and by reducing the amout of channels it had to get data, it seemed to minimize that....

UncD2000

12-26-05, 11:07 AM

I really want this box to work-there is nothing like it out there. I can get a CC extended warranty-should i even bother or is this just going to get worse? Are there units CC can exchange this for that will be more stable? This was a 4.51 version with i believe 1.15 software.I have had 6 different 3410A units since 9/04 and all have had problems, most notably with receiving and retaining guide info. Crutchfield had the Sony DHG-HDD250 for $499, no tax and free shipping, but they apparently ran out of them last week. I have had one of these for 3 weeks with no problems. Besides the more-than-double HDD capacity, it has several advantages over the LG, dependability being the most important.

shugazer9

12-26-05, 12:03 PM

Jan J-
I removed all the channels i dont watch when i first set it up. All i have left in the guide are the digital OTA stations-about 9 channels in all, but i still get the Guide freeze-up. So if i re-enter the zipcode, the channel lineup will remain the same? I could probably live with the TV Guide lockups, but the VCR Plus also green-screens. I would probably still keep the unit, but $400 is a bit much for an OTA tuner.

UncD2000-
Wow! 6 defective boxes! That does not bode well for the future reliability of this unit. I checked out the Sony, but i really need the firewire output.

Is LG going to replace this model with a newer version? If so, and i got the CC extended warranty, maybe i could exchange for one in the future.

UncD2000

12-26-05, 12:31 PM

I wound up with two units that are OK if you don't mind the guide being AWOL most of the time. I have one of them loaned out to my niece in Carpentersville, and ironically the guide is working (so far) in her location with basic Comcast and no OTA antenna. This morning, the 3410A that remains here has suddenly filled in the guide, but from experience, that will probably last a day or two.

I don't think LG has any plans for another standalone DVR. They are building them into some of their TV sets these days.

Jan J

12-26-05, 09:20 PM

shugazer9

12-26-05, 09:55 PM

I dont think its a problem recieving the guide data- its there, only obscured by a greenish digital freezeup. The guide has been visible all day now and 2 scheduled recordings were made. I did have something on top of it, so its possible it was heat-related. There are no airflow restrictions now, so ill see if i get any lockups after watching MNF for a few hours.
The SD picture was pretty horrible as i recall, but the guide screen seems pretty rock solid when its there.

Jan J

12-26-05, 10:00 PM

If you have noisy SD reception, there's a good chance your TV Guide data is also noisy...
Do you have an outside antenna?
See if you can put an Cheapy RF Amp on it.

Tony-CE

12-27-05, 01:31 AM

I received my refurb recently. It is a 551- serial and fw 1.17. No problems yet. Except, the guide only shows analog cable stations. No digital cable or OTA stations listed in the guide. Any ideas what I can do? I have both cable and OTA inputs in use. Thanks.

Jan J

12-27-05, 08:58 AM

If you can receive the channels you want (Some digital cable channels may be viewable only with Quam channel listings, (of which I'm not entirely clear on, and my channel numbers may not be yours)....

But if you can receive the channel, and there is an unused Logo in the channel list, you can re-direct (channel Edit) the logo to match the channel you determined...

For example: You have 2 ABC logos... Let's say one is correctly assigned to ABC off cable, and you want the other ABC Logo to be the HD OTA channel... (as we are using).
I went into the channel edit, and scrolled to the 2nd unused ABC logo, then assigned 7-1 to it (ABC HD here). I'm assumeing that if I wanted to assign the ABC HD off cable, I could have assigned the QUAM channel equivalent, but since I've got an outside antenna, It's simplier to use that (and pix quality is a bit better OTA than through compressed cable)

Digitude

12-29-05, 08:37 AM

Jan J

12-29-05, 08:51 AM

You are correct, you must delete all scheduled recordings prior to setting the clock...

It's one of the oddities that you wonder "Why the heck did you do THAT for?"

I think each of us has a couple software gotcha's that we wish we could have had a one on one with the software writers......

For example: They have analog video inputs, but you can't do a scheduled recording from it....

And every now and then --- it reminds me that I can't do a schecduled recording to video inputs.... and this is seems to be the 3410a telling me that the scheduled recordings are corrupt somenow.. Delete them all, and re-schedule, and that bug is gone for a while...

Here's where I put my foot in my mouth.... Ours has worked flawlessly for ~2 months now.
Which means it's about time for another go-round.

Digitude

12-29-05, 09:03 AM

You are correct, you must delete all scheduled recordings prior to setting the clock...

It's one of the oddities that you wonder "Why the heck did you do THAT for?"

Then after I deleted my recordings and reset the clock I realized that I either didn't know how or that is was not possible to advance the program guide by a day or week in order to pick out the programs I wanted to reschedule for recording. I started to step through the program guide hour by hour. Is there shortcut to advance the program guide by each day? Or do I need to input my shows manually? Or does the PG even go beyond 24 hours? Sorry for all the questions. The 3410A is new to me and the manual is all over the map when trying to find relevant info.

wookatok

12-29-05, 09:40 AM

Then after I deleted my recordings and reset the clock I realized that I either didn't know how or that is was not possible to advance the program guide by a day or week in order to pick out the programs I wanted to reschedule for recording. I started to step through the program guide hour by hour. Is there shortcut to advance the program guide by each day? Or do I need to input my shows manually? Or does the PG even go beyond 24 hours? Sorry for all the questions. The 3410A is new to me and the manual is all over the map when trying to find relevant info.

Digitude,

You can jump 24 hours in the TV Guide LISTING section using the +/- 24 HOURS button, scroll down to a program and use the green button to advance 24 hours and the blue button to jump back 24 hours (see pp 57 of the manual).

An easier way to set program recordings is to use the TV Guide SORT section. You can sort programs by subcategories ( aphabetically, movies, sports, action, comedy, etc.) Just select the program and a drop down will display the air date and times to record (see pp 58 of the manual).

Good luck,

-James

Hyrax

12-29-05, 11:07 AM

Then after I deleted my recordings and reset the clock I realized that I either didn't know how .....

I highly recommend you use the 'record once' option when setting up your recordings. I used to set up weekly recording of my favorite shows when I first got my 3410A. However, this practice tends to cause problems.

Say for example, you decide to you want to record House every week. Well the problem is that my local Fox station occasionally does something so that the Guide can no longer find the station. This is the sort of 'glitch' that could cause the 3410A to lockup when it tries to record from a non-existent station. The symptom is that the 3410A is very slow in responding or the Guide will not appear when I press the appropriate button. When this happens, I need to unplug the 3410A to clear the problem, and then delete all of the scheduled recordings.

The long and short of it is that I almost always set up recording only 1 or two days before a show airs. Now that Monday Night Football is over, I'll have extra space on my hard drive and I may try living dangerously and probably setup what I want to record Monday - Friday on Monday night. But I am asking for trouble.

Digitude

12-29-05, 03:13 PM

Say for example, you decide to you want to record House every week. Well the problem is that my local Fox station occasionally does something so that the Guide can no longer find the station. This is the sort of 'glitch' that could cause the 3410A to lockup when it tries to record from a non-existent station. The symptom is that the 3410A is very slow in responding or the Guide will not appear when I press the appropriate button. When this happens, I need to unplug the 3410A to clear the problem, and then delete all of the scheduled recordings.I haven't experienced a lot of guide problems - yet. The more I read and learn about this box the more I see a half baked design brought to market prematurely. I mean...how hard is it to put a CMOS battery in it to save the clock after a power outage? Especially with timer recording as a primary feature?

Digitude

12-29-05, 04:00 PM

I highly recommend you use the 'record once' option when setting up your recordings. I used to set up weekly recording of my favorite shows when I first got my 3410A. However, this practice tends to cause problems.... Doesn't this sort of defeat the purpose of owning a DVR? If I go on vacation for a week or two I want to keep up with my favorite shows particularly ones with a continuing story line like 24.

UncD2000

12-29-05, 07:24 PM

I mean...how hard is it to put a CMOS battery in it to save the clock after a power outage? Especially with timer recording as a primary feature?They probably thought this unnecessary because the Host Channel continuously transmits the time. The last time mine lost the time I got it back by entering the Guide reset code 100102 (with EZ-Scan highlighted).

After 16 months with the 3410A, I believe that its vulnerability to corrupt data from the Host Channel is the root cause of all of the Guide issues. Whenever Fox or ABC displays as my host channel, the Guide is in and out. Both of my units (one is in Carpentersville) have indicated Ch. 11 PBS as Host Channel for about a week, and everything has been perfect. Hope it stays that way, but I guess that's too much to ask. In contrast, the Sony DHG-HDD250 has no Guide problems regardless of the Host Channel, so evidently it has a more advanced chipset to deal with corrupt incoming data.

ebo

12-29-05, 07:38 PM

Digitude,

You can jump 24 hours in the TV Guide LISTING section using the +/- 24 HOURS button, scroll down to a program and use the green button to advance 24 hours and the blue button to jump back 24 hours (see pp 57 of the manual).

Actually I believe you have to scroll up to the menu bar. If you're on a program the green button schedules it to record. I forget what the blue button does.

Jan J

12-29-05, 07:54 PM

UncD2000

Can you elaborate on that Guide reset code? I'm not 'up' on that one!!

Jan

UncD2000

12-30-05, 04:12 AM

After entering Menu, highlight EZ-Scan but do not engage it. Type in 100102 and press Exit. This should reset TV Guide, and if the time was absent, it should return shortly. This procedure doesn't necessarily get you beyond the "No Listings" stage, but it will enable recordings to be scheduled manually. When the TV Guide screen says "No data available for this screen", the time will not hold and manually scheduled recordings probably will not occur. You need "No Listings" and a reliable time readout as a minimum.

Getting TV Guide to display actual programming is a separate issue. You are dependent on the quality of data transmitted by the Host Channel, so it seems to be "luck of the draw" there from my experience.

JohnS-MI

12-30-05, 08:46 PM

After entering Menu, highlight EZ-Scan but do not engage it. Type in 100102 and press Exit. This should reset TV Guide, and if the time was absent, it should return shortly.

Thanks for tip. I'm also a new owner (3 days) I had this problem earlier today, but unplugged it to reset before I saw this.

Will VCR+ codes and/or manual recording work as soon as you have valid time?

kiwishred

12-30-05, 09:29 PM

... I'm also a new owner (3 days) ... John, if you don't mind sharing, I am curious to know where you purchased yours from and also, if it is one on those refurbs that seem to pop up on eBay fairly regularly, what condition it was in, manufacture date, & firmware rev level, etc ....

Thanks,
Brent

UncD2000

12-30-05, 10:08 PM

Will VCR+ codes and/or manual recording work as soon as you have valid time?I would think so. If the Guide is displaying "No Listings"
that would be definite confirmation.

shugazer9

12-31-05, 01:42 AM

I am a bit unclear as regards the Host Channel. How can you tell what channel it is? Im not sure if my problems (green screen on TV Guide & VCR +) are related to that. I experienced freezeups on my initial setup screen also, which leads me to believe it's a hard drive issue.

JohnS-MI

12-31-05, 11:14 AM

John, if you don't mind sharing, I am curious to know where you purchased yours from and also, if it is one on those refurbs that seem to pop up on eBay fairly regularly, what condition it was in, manufacture date, & firmware rev level, etc ....

Thanks,
Brent

I bought on eBay. The guy claimed it was "used" by him, but I later saw him selling a second unit, so I'm a trifle suspicious. Great physical shape, came in a factory box (didn't look like a refurb box), with remote, manual. Some of the cables were "junk" he threw in the box. I had to buy new component cable. Manufacturer date was Oct. 2004. The guy who sold it to me had bought it himself on eBay in March; a Paypal receipt for it was in the bottom of the box, under the unit (assuming it was for same serial number)

I'd have to reread some of this very long thread to figure out where to find the firmware code. I also don't have any idea how to determine what "host station" it uses and whether I can control it if I have more than one locally.
(It would be great if somebody condensed the "nuggets of wisdom" from this thread)

So far, I would rate the tuner very good, better than my 40" JVC LCD, or an Accurion box I use with another tv. Record and playback has worked very well (only about three shows so far). My only problem has been the TV guide. That occurred after my monoprice.com cables arrived and I hooked it up "properly" to my receiver, instead of the "ad hoc" way I connected it initially. I wonder if it may be sensitive to static discharge when connectors are touched. It has recovered and the Guide has worked since (but that's less than 24 hours).

I had read this thread before I bought it and certainly had some concerns. But it was less than other choices with a built-in tuner. I use it mostly to "watch one, record another" so a unit that doesn't have it's own tuner is useless to me.

kiwishred

12-31-05, 12:16 PM

John - Thanks, for the info. Sounds like you did well with your purchase. Very likely one of the many auctions I was outbidded on :eek:

Brent

Hyrax

12-31-05, 01:46 PM

Doesn't this sort of defeat the purpose of owning a DVR? If I go on vacation for a week or two I want to keep up with my favorite shows particularly ones with a continuing story line like 24.

You're right, it does present problems. When you go away for a few weeks, then you've got no choice but to record weekly. I have done it successfully several times. But I figure that if I'm home I don't want to take a chance on getting corrupted data. Obviously, you can set it up to record 24 ever week and take the chances I'm not willing to take unless necessary.

Before people condem LG for its 3410A Guide problems, take a look at the threads concerning the built in guides in TVs. A lot of other companies are (Toshiba, Mits, and so on) are having horrendous problems providing the Guide in their TVs. I actually think we're doing a lot better than most folks in this regard.
I believe the problem is more in the broadcast data than in the hardware. Not that I am trying to make excuses for LG. The 3410A should work like we all wish it would. The mistake that they (and every one else who has included the Guide) made when they designed these tuners to use the Guide information is that they could not imagine how screwed up our broadcasts are. They needed to anticipate every station being different and very few stations following the rules. Our High Definition OTA broadcasts are a mess, they should have defensivley programmed around this mess.

Leg One

01-01-06, 01:07 AM

You're right, it does present problems. When you go away for a few weeks, then you've got no choice but to record weekly. I have done it successfully several times. But I figure that if I'm home I don't want to take a chance on getting corrupted data. Obviously, you can set it up to record 24 ever week and take the chances I'm not willing to take unless necessary.

...around this mess.

It's funny. I remember setting up VCRs to record more than one channel a week for entire seasons and never missing an episode!

In Chicago, the TVguide comes over one of the PBS stations (host station). I believe this is an "analog broadcast station". What I want to know is how will TVGuide get to us when the analog channels are turned off? Are the LG and "other" OTA boxes going to work and receive the TVGuide at that time?

Are the new machines handling this in a more eloquent way?

Sincerely,
Leg one

ebo

01-01-06, 05:56 AM

What I want to know is how will TVGuide get to us when the analog channels are turned off? Are the LG and "other" OTA boxes going to work and receive the TVGuide at that time?I don't think so. Even if the same data were on a digital channel, I don't think the current boxes would look for it. No reason future boxes couldn't be designed to, though.

Too bad they didn't include an alternative way to get guide data, such as an Internet connection. It's available; that's how ATI AIW tuner cards get their Gemstar guide data.

ebo

01-01-06, 06:24 AM

I'd have to reread some of this very long thread to figure out where to find the firmware code. I also don't have any idea how to determine what "host station" it uses and whether I can control it if I have more than one locally.Version Code: Menu - Setup - Troubleshooting - Version Info (scroll down to the bottom to see it).

Diagnostic Mode: TV Guide - Top Line Menu - Messages - TV Guide On Screen ID Number - Enter 753159852. You'll see the pattern when you try it. This will give you 30 pages of info, mostly inscrutable.

Host Channel: "Host Chan" on Page 1 of Diagnostic Mode. Listed in hexadecimal. For example, "Host Chan 0xA" is channel 10.

JohnS-MI

01-01-06, 12:38 PM

CC has had this on their Website for some time with the phase "Comming soon".
Anyone heard when "soon" is and are these all those refurb units that were pileing up in the room/building that was mentioned months back?

Having recently searched intensively for remaining stock of another discontinued item, I'm pretty sure that "Coming soon" is the Marketing Dept's way of saying "Out of Stock."

JohnS-MI

01-01-06, 03:34 PM

John - Thanks, for the info. Sounds like you did well with your purchase. Very likely one of the many auctions I was outbidded on :eek:

Brent

I got to the version screen based on the tips here
S/W: MP1.15 (I don't know if the "MP" is important, no one has mentioned it before)
H/W: 10/4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 7.1.20
4/6/2004 (I assume that is software or "build level" date. Back of unit says it was built in Oct. 2004. It has a 451- serial number.

On eBay, keep bidding, but choose your auctions. I saw a lot of obvious refurb, "as is", "it powers up, but I don't know if it works" units. I refused to bid on those, and concentrated on those where the guy said he had used it and it worked.

I only won by a buck! Usually, I "snipe" but I had to go out that day and made a max. bid a couple of hours before. Some guy keep "testing" my bid in $5 increments, but gave up $1 under my max. One more bump, it would have been his. His "testing" raised my price $25, but I still won (it is also why I snipe if I can, but I have been outsniped too. "Live by the sword, die by the sword.")

JohnS-MI

01-01-06, 03:47 PM

Diagnostic Mode: TV Guide - Top Line Menu - Messages - TV Guide On Screen ID Number - Enter 753159852. You'll see the pattern when you try it. This will give you 30 pages of info, mostly inscrutable.

Host Channel: "Host Chan" on Page 1 of Diagnostic Mode. Listed in hexadecimal. For example, "Host Chan 0xA" is channel 10.

Thanks for both the tips. I'm in Metro Detroit area, and host station is channel 56, 0x38, (analog), our PBS station.

Most of the 30 pages are inscrutable, but it looks like the first page gives you some info on next download time, last download, last channel setup etc. It might be useful to monitor a few of those.

I had tried turning off all the analog stations in both the Edit Channels screen and the guide. I didn't notice it because I didn't look far enough ahead, but the guide was emptying out after I did this. I appreciate the tips from various people here on how the guide fills in, etc. I reactivated the analog stations, sorted the guide stations last night, and the guide filled in some empty days overnight.

If I know the host station, is that the ONLY analog channel I need to leave active? I'd prefer not to have them all in my scan sequence. At the moment, I have all the analog and all the digital channels on, and in scan up/down sequence. Half the analog are VHF stations and I have a Silver Sensor UHF antenna going into the 3410A, so the vhf reception completely sucks (the PBS host station is UHF)

kiwishred

01-01-06, 05:03 PM

On eBay, keep bidding, but choose your auctions. I saw a lot of obvious refurb, "as is", "it powers up, but I don't know if it works" units. I refused to bid on those, and concentrated on those where the guy said he had used it and it worked.
Yeh - I have so far just been playing around on eBay - trying to figure out how the bidding dynamics work, while I also work my way through this thread to see if I really want to buy one or not (up to page 66 so far !).

One interesting thing I have noticed is that the used ones can go for about the same as the refurbs. I would have thought that a refurb is less risky in some ways than used. There is negligible risk of getting a box of bricks from a refurb house, there is a 90 day warrantee with option to purchase extended (which is appealing to me given some of the horror stories on this thread), and, if it really has been refurbed, I would expect that they would put the latest firmware version on it. I would also a assume a refurb would be relatively recent manufacture date (since why would it be refurbed more than one year out of warrantee ?).

I emailed CC about their "coming soon" notice. The automailer said they would get back to me within 24 hrs. But that was on Dec 28. This does not bode well...

Perhaps someone can help me here. Are there any other options out there that can be used to receive/record both OTA ATCS and NTSC ? For that matter, can any of the subscriber units (DirectTV, etc) be used for this purpose (or ATSC only) but without having to pay any sort of subscriotion (to satellite company, TIVO, or whatever) ? It looks like some of these other HD PVR boxes come up on eBay from time to time but I don't know what I would be getting into with one of those....

Thanks
Brent

JohnS-MI

01-01-06, 05:45 PM

One interesting thing I have noticed is that the used ones can go for about the same as the refurbs. I would have thought that a refurb is less risky in some ways than used. There is negligible risk of getting a box of bricks from a refurb house, there is a 90 day warrantee with option to purchase extended (which is appealing to me given some of the horror stories on this thread), and, if it really has been refurbed, I would expect that they would put the latest firmware version on it. I would also a assume a refurb would be relatively recent manufacture date (since why would it be refurbed more than one year out of warrantee ?).

If the item is still in production and the refurb has a warranty, I probably agree with you. Based on this thread, I think (but could be wrong) the unit is discontinued, LG only has old refurb units to ship in exchange, and I don't think eBay refurb houses would have newer or be able to honor the warranty. Read the description VERY carefully. Most of the refurbs I saw were "as is" but some mixed that specific language with their standard "boilerplate" leaving a confusing mess. Some definitely scared me off from bidding on their auctions. Usually if a guy has good feedback and is selling personally used stuff, he is pretty honest about his descriptions. I feel less confident of the dealers.

ebo

01-01-06, 08:42 PM

Perhaps someone can help me here. Are there any other options out there that can be used to receive/record both OTA ATCS and NTSC ? For that matter, can any of the subscriber units (DirectTV, etc) be used for this purpose (or ATSC only) but without having to pay any sort of subscriotion (to satellite company, TIVO, or whatever) ? It looks like some of these other HD PVR boxes come up on eBay from time to time but I don't know what I would be getting into with one of those....The only other stand-alone, subscription-free HD DVRs I know of are the two Sonys, DHGHDD250 and DHGHDD500. They're pretty pricey, although I think I read recently that Best Buy was dumping them for about $500. Could be wrong or too late. Never used one.

There are several HD tuner cards for PCs and at least one external USB unit. They're generally not as easy to use as an STB, but have the advantage that they save to a computer's hard drive, which allows for easier editing and archiving. The only ones I'm familiar with are the MyHD MDP-120 and MDP-130, and I can recommend both. Both receive ATSC and NTSC; the 130 also tunes unscrambled QAM. If you don't need that, look for a used 120. Although they will record NTSC (as .avi files), some have complained that the quality isn't as good as with other cards. I've never tried it; that's not what I bought these cards for. For digital they just record the incoming transport stream, so there's no loss of quality.

POWERFUL

01-01-06, 11:12 PM

for the record at this moment there are none of these unit on ebay, so I guess we are talking past experiences. Speaking of which I tried to buy a few units on ebay but no auctions satisfied me enough to commit to buying from them, so I took a trip in to Manhattan and brought a new one (the plastic covering in the box on the box said March 2005) and the problems I've had with it are few and far in between.

Rammitinski

01-02-06, 03:58 AM

One of the HT mags a couple of months back said that production on this unit was being extended another year. Don't remember which one, tho - maybe Sound & Vision?

Leg One

01-02-06, 01:28 PM

Hi all,
Referencing the dialog regarding availability of the LG and Sonys...HDTV STB.

When I requested information regarding availability of current and future products (HDTV STBs recording and otherwise) from my local Tweeter, sales people said "the market isn't there".

What they meant was the majority of viewers get their signals from Cable or SAT. Both providers are suppling "boxes" with the features of HDTV STBs. There is not enough ATSC sales base to constitute continued or future production.

This is unfortunate in my case. I won't pay for programing that has commercials, censorship, repeated programing, or restricted bandwidth. My money is better spent purchasing the DVD of something and watching it when I want how I want. This of course includes DVDs from abroad (region specific or PAL) "containing content deemed unsuitable for younger or more sensitive viewers".

Leg one

nameless33

01-02-06, 04:07 PM

What they meant was the majority of viewers get their signals from Cable or SAT. Both providers are suppling "boxes" with the features of HDTV STBs. There is not enough ATSC sales base to constitute continued or future production.

Another sales and marketing self fulfilling prophecy.

In reality, people didn't buy the available units because they didn't work. They didn't integrate ATSC, QAM, and NTSC into one seamless interface.

Edited: Even the highly sought after LG LST-4200A set top box doesn't do it seamlessly, which is why I never bought one even when they were available. You have to go to something like the LST-3410A.

People haven't NOT bought anything yet. They're STILL WAITING for an initial WORKING set top box to come to market.

Edited: If I were to hazard a guess why there's not more STB product development, I'd imagine they expect people to pick up this technology in HDTV HDD recorders and the next gen DVD recorders. Another problem seems to be QAM encryption by cable companies and (again) no working two way cablecard technology.

ebo

01-02-06, 06:11 PM

In reality, people didn't buy the available units because they didn't work. They didn't integrate ATSC, QAM, and NTSC into one seamless interface.

Even this highly sought after LG LST-3410A doesn't do it, which is why I never bought one even when they were available.Explain, please. While I agree with much of what you said in the rest of your post and would never defend the LG as being trouble-free or even well designed in all areas, I'd say that ATSC, QAM and NTSC are integrated pretty seamlessly, at least by my definition. I have all three available, and in many cases have the same program available all three ways. I can select which way I normally want to view each station in the Gemstar guide, and when I select that channel I get it from the source I've chosen. What's not seamless? How would you like it to work?

kucharsk

01-03-06, 02:45 AM

What I don't understand is why people program their units using the Guide.

All of my scheduled events are things I've programmed by hand - e.g. Weekly, Tuesday, 6:58 PM to 8:02 PM - and I've never had an issue.

Frankly, my Guide could be gone or corrupt and I'd never even know; I simply don't use it and don't see it except when I have to go through it to get to the manual recording screen.

The only issue I run into regularly is if I let my weekly recording of CSI: play to the end of the recorded program, the box will often hang instead of return back to viewing the last channel when it hits the end. I then have to power cycle it (though it works to do so via the remote) to get control back…

Hyrax

01-03-06, 10:59 AM

What I don't understand is why people program their units using the Guide.

All of my scheduled events are things I've programmed by hand - e.g. Weekly, Tuesday, 6:58 PM to 8:02 PM - and I've never had an issue.

Exactly. That is what I do when I want to record a weekly show when I go on vacation. It works great!

I use the guide to see what is playing during the current day. If there is something I wish to record that day, I will use the guide. Otherwise I use the 3410A as though it were a VCR.

shugazer9

01-03-06, 11:33 AM

I could live with my intermittently corrupted TV Guide screen, but unfortunately when that happens, the VCR+ screen is unusable also. That is why i went and got a 3-year warranty on this unit.

Jan J

01-03-06, 11:56 AM

Firmware update....
Did contact one of the folks I email'd a couple weeks ago, asking if I could get revision information along with whatever firmware turns up (1.17 or ???).

I had heard once that this information has not been available recently.....

He said he'd pass along whatever Korea sends... (And I think this fella can read/write Korean)

Ongoing.....

Digitude

01-03-06, 12:02 PM

Firmware update....
Did contact one of the folks I email'd a couple weeks ago, asking if I could get revision information along with whatever firmware turns up (1.17 or ???).
. It is probably discussed here somewhere but I'm too lazy to go back through the 111 pages of this thread.....just what does 1.17 get you? I checked mine and it shows 1.15. Am I missing something wonderful?

avnstf

01-03-06, 04:31 PM

What I don't understand is why people program their units using the Guide.

I use it because it is extremely convenient - I just push a button for a program - and it works 99+% of the time!!!

Tony :)

UncD2000

01-03-06, 07:08 PM

It is probably discussed here somewhere but I'm too lazy to go back through the 111 pages of this thread.....just what does 1.17 get you? I checked mine and it shows 1.15. Am I missing something wonderful?I doubt it. As I've mentioned before, I have one unit with 1.17 and one with 1.15 and cannot detect the slightest difference. Ditto for the first 351 (2003) units that I started with that had 1.12.

From what has been posted here over the months, updates after 1.12 addressed a few "niche" issues that affected very few owners. An example would be the "fix" for audio problems on TNT-HD. Since that channel is encrypted in the vast majority of cable systems, that particular update didn't help many owners.

The issue mentioned most often in these pages is the inability to assemble and retain guide programming. It's apparently caused by corrupted data from the Host Channel. This seems to be a design flaw that can't be addressed by FW updates.

Leg One

01-04-06, 09:51 AM

What I don't understand is why people program their units using the Guide.

All of my scheduled events are things I've programmed by hand - e.g. Weekly, Tuesday, 6:58 PM to 8:02 PM - and I've never had an issue.

…

I use the "Guide" to program this machine because it's convenient. Unlike the "old days" (VCRs) where you set the clock, date, year so on. Then get out a channel listing with programing for the following week. Pick/choose programs, choose a channel, then setup the unit to start and stop on a certain day at a certain time ... need I go on.

The LG LST-3410 can be setup like the old VCRs as I described above but why? Not when you have VCR+ and the built-in TVGuide. For me unattended recording (typically HD) involves bringing up the Guide, picking the channel of interest (i.e. PBS), paging right until a show looks interesting and then pushing the green button. To record the show more than once there are two other options. I typically do this on Sundays. That prepares time shifted HD content for viewing when I want to.

My LG LST-3410 has been running off the TVGuide since I purchased it. It has been recording daily and weekly and one time shows trouble free. There were two cases like when "Threshold" changed nights and then went off the air (machine locked).
I have done manual recordings while I was viewing a show several times.

My eternal hope is that "the Guide" is not abandoned in the future, that the LG LST-3410 (and other STBs) will not lose its ability to populate the Guide a week in advance as the analog channels are turned off and that "Guide" could be completed. By "completed" I mean make available all the digital channels not just the primary ones (i.e. 11.1, 11.2).

Leg one

wookatok

01-04-06, 12:35 PM

My LG LST-3410 has been running off the TVGuide since I purchased it. It has been recording daily and weekly and one time shows trouble free. There were two cases like when "Threshold" changed nights and then went off the air (machine locked).
I have done manual recordings while I was viewing a show several times.

Leg one

My two LG LST-3410a ( 351 and 451 series both with firmware 1.5) have been relatively "trouble-free" except for Gemstar hick-ups.

I wonder if it has to do with where you are located and the signal provider. I'm in Washington DC and use Comcast cable and have an over-the-air roof top antena.

Maybe we should take a poll (location, signal provider and firmware) of the relatively "trouble-free" units.

-James

UncD2000

01-04-06, 12:52 PM

There can be variations within the same area. My Host Channel has varied from Fox to ABC to PBS. With the first two I experience constant guide problems, occasional lockups, and other problems that require resets. About two weeks ago, PBS became my Host Channel and everything has worked perfectly. The improvement was amazing and quite unexpected.

Leg One

01-04-06, 02:04 PM

There can be variations within the same area... amazing and quite unexpected.

I side with you and "wookatok". During my lunch hour I scoured the internet for Gemstar info (TVGuide). The lack of information is no surprise but, certainly is frustrating. I was looking for "Guide info", specific channel transmission (#) in my area and future plans. :mad: NONE!

I'm about 60 miles NW of Chicago. I have some electronic knowledge and faced the "Digital Signal" part as I would/did analog reception. I did my teething on a Motorola STB optimizing my reception for that unit. Switching to the LG LST-3410 was easy.

I have had numerous discussions with forum subscribers, electronic engineers friends and business associates. Reception of digital is more difficult (now) than analog. While we could accept a snowy, ghosting multipath affected signal with analog, with digital you get it or you don't. Now we could argue that there are degrees of digtal reception maybe from 30 - 100 % strength but, we can tolerate little multipathing.

It is evident that there are "black holes" with regards to antenna location. Best solution for this situation is to pickup and move the antenna. Then to a lesser degree partial holes affecting certain channels (still pickup and move). If your (our) TVGuide is updating through one of those poorly recepted channels well...

LG LST-3410 functionality (any STB) is certainly degraded by any of the above. Really we can blame the manufactures and retailers for not selling us the whole package.

Martin

UncD2000

01-04-06, 02:46 PM

I'm in a very favorable location for reception of the Chicago digital stations, but since the TVGOS data is carried on the Host Channel's analog transmission, that could be where my problems lie when ABC and Fox are involved. However, when Fox was my Host Channel, the diagnostic menu displayed 0 X C, with Ch. 12 being the Comcast channel for WFLD.

I just hope my Host Channel remains 0 X B because Ch. 11 is getting the job done.

nameless33

01-04-06, 02:57 PM

Explain, please. While I agree with much of what you said in the rest of your post and would never defend the LG as being trouble-free or even well designed in all areas, I'd say that ATSC, QAM and NTSC are integrated pretty seamlessly, at least by my definition. I have all three available, and in many cases have the same program available all three ways. I can select which way I normally want to view each station in the Gemstar guide, and when I select that channel I get it from the source I've chosen. What's not seamless? How would you like it to work?

Thanks for the heads up. It should have read LST-4200A, their set top box. Actually mistook this thread for the 4200 thread, dropped in at the last page, and replied to the post commenting on (of course) set top boxes. Bottom line: yeah, I'm an idiot. Upside is I get to read through this thread as I was pretty much unaware of this model before.

I'll edit the post to get the models right and soften the rant.

alk3997

01-04-06, 03:18 PM

I bought the 3410A two weeks ago and so far have not had any issues until last night after I had a power flop at my house. When the power came back on I went to reset the clock and got a dialog box indicating that I must delete all programs scheduled to record before I could set the clock. WTF? This is a major annoyance since my power company majorly sucks. :mad:

Actually patience is a virtue in this case. The reason LG did this is that the clock will be automagically updated within two hours.

The reason I know this is that after a power hit, I used to delete the entire program list and start again. After about six months of this and buying a UPS for the 3410a, I accidentally unplugged the 3410a while working on something else. Since I was busy I didn't have time to delete the programs and reset the clock. When I looked at the time a few hours later, the clock was correct and all of the programs still worked. Ever since then when I've had to disconnect the 3410a, I just make sure the antenna is correctly connected, plug it in and wait (with the unit "off).

If you keep the hard disk clean and occasionally check the current program entries, the 3410a is reliable (at least in the Houston area).

Sorry I haven't scanned this thread in a while, or I could have saved you some trouble.

JohnS-MI

01-04-06, 03:44 PM

Actually patience is a virtue in this case. The reason LG did this is that the clock will be automagically updated within two hours.

Agreed, but usually MUCH less than 2 hours, say a few minutes to 30 minutes. I'm as patience-impaired as anyone, but it is better to let the unit acquire time automatically.

Leg One

01-04-06, 05:35 PM

Agreed, but usually MUCH less than 2 hours, say a few minutes to 30 minutes. I'm as patience-impaired as anyone, but it is better to let the unit acquire time automatically.

In the event that you don't want to wait or don't have time to wait. Can you set the clock without losing programing?

Martin

joshMV4

01-04-06, 06:06 PM

In the event that you don't want to wait or don't have time to wait. Can you set the clock without losing programing?

Martin

I believe I read several pages back that you can just unplug it for 2 seconds, then
re-plug it back in and it forces the clock to correct itself. I have had mixed results with this method in my experience. But as long as the power is off, it has never taken more than 10 minutes for the clock to reset. (Just make sure the antennae is plugged in).

I have never lost programming due to unplugging it. Only when my unit froze up a few times, but that has been a while. I try to keep the HDD at around half empty now. I also used to keep it on my yamaha receiver (which inside has a 100 lb transformer [magnet] inside). I moved my unit off of the receiver about a month ago, and, knock on wood, it has been trouble free with freezing up and missing recordings.

I have one new question or problem...Recently (last 2 months or so) my unit has had audio sync issues. I don't notice it much during live viewing (but I don't do much live viewing)...but I do see it a couple times a week whiile watching from the HDD. I have noticed it on several channels, so I don't think it is the broadcast station's fault. Anyone else have problems like this. I believe I have FW1.15 and a 451 model.

Leg One

01-04-06, 10:09 PM

I believe I read several pages back that you can just unplug it for 2 seconds, then...

I have one new question or problem...Recently (last 2 months or so) my unit has had audio sync issues.

Hi joshmv4,
Thanks for the answer regarding clock setting.

Audio sync problems are very common as the audio and video take different paths through a playback system. With all the display devices and manufactures, techniques differ for processing the picture. Each method takes a different amount of time. Audio manufactures in particular are providing timing adjustments for the sound to correct this. This started to appear late last year in new receivers, preamps and signal processors.

Ocassionally I have sync problems during playback. I have found that stopping the hardrive, going to real time viewing and then restarting the recorded program sometimes helps.

Martin

JohnS-MI

01-04-06, 11:40 PM

In the event that you don't want to wait or don't have time to wait. Can you set the clock without losing programing?

Martin

I think you have to dump the programming to manually set the clock. Hence, it is better to wait, unless a show is about to start.

Jan J

01-05-06, 02:44 PM

Skokie Illinois, NW Suburb of Chicago.

I've rececived better TV Guide data from PBS Channel 11 (Seeing they are both Channel 11 on outside antenna and off Cable I don't know which antenna LG Box is getting TV Guide data from.... But when I received data off channel 12 (Fox off cable), data had more problems with it.

I can tell you, because I am familliar with people at 2 of the 3 stations, that they are in the dark as much as we are... as to what is being sent. They just provide the carrier, literally...

I did approach someone who had a contact via corporate contacts at Gemstar, with a laundry list of complaints, and of the 6 things mentioned, only one was fixed.......

Gemstar, TV Guide does an excellent job of isolating themselves from the world!!! and would be a lesson in security.......

Jan J

01-06-06, 11:45 PM

I met with person who gave me CD today... I asked him if the fellow who updated his machine used the CD he gave me. No.
Now he's going to ask for the data file.

Marc Alexander

01-07-06, 04:34 PM

POWERFUL

01-07-06, 09:37 PM

TNT is unencrypted on TWC and Comcast. 1.17 contains the TNT audio fix.
Not on TWC NYC, maybe in Cali

Bud-man

01-08-06, 07:09 AM

Will this recorder pickup digital cable channels along with unscrambled HD thru Cox?

chefklc

01-08-06, 08:18 AM

An example would be the "fix" for audio problems on TNT-HD. Since that channel is encrypted in the vast majority of cable systems, that particular update didn't help many owners.

TNT is unencrypted on TWC and Comcast. 1.17 contains the TNT audio fix.

TNT-HD is unencrypted in Arlington, VA with Comcast, and that 1.17 update would help me. I'm not in a position to say whether that puts me in the majority or minority of cable systems (and I have always considered myself a niche user anyway, as anyone who owns one of these things should ) just that I'm loathe to even try sending my unit off to LG for an upgrade let alone pay for the privilege of getting someone else's crap unit back. I would, however, download or attempt a firmware upgrade myself, if it were possible, so Jan, I'm curious to see where you go with this. Outside of occasional guide data load problems and the need for the 2 sec unplug my 451 with 1.15 has been very reliable. I've more than gotten my open-box Best Buy money's worth. :)

JohnS-MI

01-08-06, 09:06 AM

I would like to thank whoever first posted this tip on diagnostic mode for the tv guide (but I'm too lazy to wade through 111 pages to quote you by name). I had pasted it to a list of tips from this whole thread:

Diagnostic Mode: TV Guide - Top Line Menu - Messages - TV Guide On Screen ID Number - Enter 753159852. You'll see the pattern when you try it. This will give you 30 pages of info, mostly inscrutable.

Host Channel: "Host Chan" on Page 1 of Diagnostic Mode. Listed in hexadecimal. For example, "Host Chan 0xA" is channel 10.

This analog channel needs to be on, even if you disable all others, and when 3410A is off, you need your antenna oriented for good reception on this station. For me, the PBS analog antenna has a 40 degree bearing difference to the digital, and knowing for sure what station I needed to receive made all the difference in getting the data, vs fumbling in the dark. Thanks again.

POWERFUL

01-08-06, 04:12 PM

This analog channel needs to be on, even if you disable all others, and when 3410A is off, you need your antenna oriented for good reception on this station.
Funny I d/l the guide better w/o it on. I have nearly a full weeks worth of info in the guide.

UncD2000

01-08-06, 04:19 PM

When Fox is the Host Channel, mine selects the cable channel vs the OTA. Can't tell for sure on PBS and ABC, because the channel number is the same.

Jan J

01-08-06, 06:43 PM

When Fox is the Host Channel, mine selects the cable channel vs the OTA. Can't tell for sure on PBS and ABC, because the channel number is the same.

When I was on Fox it was the same here.. Now I'm on channel 11 (WTTW) but I can't tell if I'm receiving it OTA or via Cable, cause they are on the same channels!

ebo

01-08-06, 07:31 PM

When Fox is the Host Channel, mine selects the cable channel vs the OTA. Can't tell for sure on PBS and ABC, because the channel number is the same.If you tell the 3410A you have cable, it does not look at the OTA input for analog at all. So you're getting it from cable.

Another possible source of trouble that hasn't been mentioned lately: Some cable companies used to (and may still) strip the Gemstar guide info off the analog stations that carry it, arguing that the stations shouldn't get a "free ride" for their extra data transmissions. I suspect their real reason was that the Gemstar guide competed with their own.

TW used to strip it. Gemstar took them to court over it and lost. The court ruled that guide information wasn't directly related to the current program, so TW didn't have to carry it. So Gemstar did a deal with TW to get it turned back on.

At one point when TW was stripping the guide I tried feeding antenna and cable through an RF switch to the cable input, switching to antenna when I turned the DVR off. Even tried substituting the Ch. 3 output of a VCR tuned to various UHF stations I thought might have the guide. None of that worked, but I still think it should have. At the time I didn't know how to determine the host channel.

Jan J

01-08-06, 08:25 PM

OOPS!!! DVR 'forgot' what channel 9-1 was... Had to go into channel edit, remove 9 and turn 19 off and on again!!!!
(V1.15)

Symptom: Was a scheduled recording. DVR went into record, but "No Signal" was scrolling across screen during that record. Halt record. Still no signal. (It IS Transmitting!)
Go into channel edit. You'll find CH9 enabled along with 19 (Where 9-1 transmits). delete CH 9 (how it got turned on is unknown to me, I didn't edit it on) go to channel 19 turn it off, then add it again. Exit... 9-1 now seen....

Since Gemstar won't deny this, I'll blame it on them.... It's been buggy ever since I convinced them to add a 2nd WB Logo!!!!

Every couple months!!!

nealgrof

01-09-06, 07:11 PM

I have read this thread pretty regularly, but I haven't seen any mention of some interesting hidden features on the unit. Forgive me if I've missed any of these posted by others previously. I have stumbled across these in the 15 (mostly happy) months I have owned two 451- units.

Yes, I know that many of us have had issues with the guide (myself included), but mine has been (not to jinx myself) reliable as of late. So here they are:

1) FF and REW buttons to navigate in TV Guide: If you want to skip from day to day in the same time slot on the same channel, you don't need to go to the top of the screen to use the green button for +24 or -24. Just use the FF>> and REW<< keys on the remote. Want to see who's on Letterman all week? Piece of cake.

2) Channel Up/Down button to navigate in TV Guide: Works as a page up/down button for faster Guide navigation.

3) Number keys to navigate in TV Guide: Want to see what's on Channel 50 (especially if it's not on the first visible page)? Simply type in "5, 0" while in the guide. The schedule line for the channel will be displayed (I don't remember if you need to press the "select" button).

4) Menu button to navigate in TV Guide: Did you just scroll down the page to see what's on or set something to record, but then you want to check your program recording schedule? Instead of scrolling all the way back up to navigate (left), press the "menu" button. It will take you straight back to the top to easily navigate through the options. This works, of course, in all of the function pages. Just hit "menu" to return to the top navigation bar.

5) Green button to set manual recording: I only mention this because everyone here knows you can use the VCR+ button for manual recording. There's another way to get in there, just FYI. Notice that when you are at the top of the recording schedule page, if you go one line down, you'll see the word RECORD next to the green circle. Pressing the green button will bring up the same manual recording screen. No biggie. (I only know this because I once called home to have my wife set to record manually. She never found the VCR+ button on the remote. But she was still able to set it. I had no idea how, and she couldn't remember. She must have gotten in this way.)

6) FF and REW buttons to navigate in Program List: This is great, especially if you have a lot of programs recorded. FF and REW will shuttle you through by a full screen at a time.

7) Select button to extend scheduled recording for a show that is running late: The president was on, and "House" is already recording. Or you didn't realize that tonight's episode (already recording from a manual program) is two hours instead of one. Solution: Simply go into the recording schedule and scroll down to select the program. Press the "select" key, and you will get the "start program 00, end program 00" screen. Just arrow down to the end program line, type in the number of minutes you want to extend the recording time, and press select again. Disaster averted.

8) Green button to stop a programmed recording that is about to begin: This is could be a last minute decision to time-shift a show already scheduled to record. I do this a lot. Let's say I've set a show to record in case I won't be home in time to timeshift it. The LG gears up to record about two minutes before the scheduled start time. Go into the recording schedule and arrow down to the appropriate program line. Your Green circle icon will now be labeled "stop" on the screen (instead of "frequency"). Press the Green button and the program will stop (abort). Exit the screen, and begin timeshifting. (I have flaked out the unit by just waiting for the record light to come on, and then pressing stop. One time, the unit locked up, and I had to power down and up again, missing the beginning of the show.)

Sorry, this turned out to be longer than I had originally envisioned. Once I started, I remembered more. I hope that some of you will find at least a few of these useful. If I've forgotten any, I'll add them.

Happy New Year to all!

JohnS-MI

01-10-06, 08:43 AM

Great tips. I hope you'll add any more that you think of.

chefklc

01-10-06, 09:57 AM

hey Neal, your tip list is great, thanks for sharing. Based on my usage habits, I'll probably only use #1 regularly, but I was really tiring of going up and back down to go 24+ within the program guide, so it's nice to know there are some obscure positive things about this unit. I'm so conditioned to the hidden negative quirks about the 3410A that really, if I got guide data and if the unit shut off after a recording, I haven't expected much more.

Like you, I'd describe my 15+ months of ownership as mostly happy as well.

mstanl

01-10-06, 03:33 PM

How about this for 9th and 10th

9) When you start a timeshift, pause and go away for a while, hit the record so that when you come back and start the program if you by mistake hit the stop or power it will prompt you to save the edit or go back to the program. This has saved me from hitting the wrong button and only having the last 30 minutes on disk.

10) For any of the 4:3 shows in letter box I change the aspect from program set to size x1 - 16 I find that with size 16 it will fill the 50 plasma.

Mike

pretzelkid

01-10-06, 10:42 PM

Tip #11

When you're editing your channel listing and moving things around....say from the very bottom to near the top instead of constantly hitting the blue button to move it up you can press a number like 5 and then select and it'll move the channel to line 5 of the listing.
:)

Jan J

01-10-06, 11:33 PM

Good Going nealgrof, mstanl, and pretzelkid !
I printed them all out for the manual addendum!!!!!

Stanton

01-11-06, 05:57 PM

That's a great list, and if you want to make it a complete guide, you might want to include all the "fixes" (2 second power cycle, secret codes) that you can use to get your guide back up and running. Feel free to start by searching on some of my earlier posts in this thread (you'll find a cluster of relevant posts).

Tony-CE

01-11-06, 10:48 PM

Does anyone definitively know if the hard drive can be replaced with a larger one and how large it can be? What about the replacement drive specs: ATA/100, 5400RPM, etc?

wilsonsoohoo

01-11-06, 11:39 PM

Does anyone definitively know if the hard drive can be replaced with a larger one and how large it can be? What about the replacement drive specs: ATA/100, 5400RPM, etc?

Yes it can! It's not hard. There are at least two pretty extensive discussions of this very issue earlier in the thread.

Jan J

01-12-06, 08:51 AM

From what I've heard, on the QT, addressing inside the box could support a single drive up to 2TB...
There has been comments about number of recordings & space used vs. power up initializing... In that during power up, if it times out prior to gettting all the recorded program information off the drive, it causes a problem.......
I put in a Maxtor "Quickview" 330Gb drive in ours, and wife has reported no problems with that issue, though..
Somewhere I got specs on the Seagate drive that LG used, and compared it with the Maxtor unit... Maxtor was slightly louder, but drew less current, and therefore less heat, with faster access specs.

One last comment... If you swap drives, make sure you DON'T use the removed drive in a computer... The firmware for 'quickview' drives is such that if it encounters a data error, it passes it on, and won't attempt a re-read, which is OK for a DVR, but not for a computer!! :)

VideoGrabber

01-13-06, 04:38 AM

joshMV4

01-13-06, 09:02 PM

Well, with 167 pages(!) of discussion I'm sure this has come up here, but I can't find it so I'll ask:

when I plug a firewire cable out from the LST-3410A into one of my D-VHS decks and monitor the live signal sent to it, it doesn't follow the subchannel I tune to on the LG. E.g., I can tune the unit to 3-1, 3-2, or 3-3; but what gets sent out firewire is always 3-2. If anything, I'd expect it would be sending the primary subchannel out (3-1), but it's not doing so for me.

Any way to circumvent this behavior, or is it a known hard limitation? Just a link would be fine, if it's already been covered here. Thanks.

- Tim

I don't have a D-VHS deck, but I have a Macintosh with software that emulates a D-VHS deck. When I use this software to record to my computer, it streams all channels (i.e...3-1 and 3-2 and 3-3) into one large file. I then use 3rd party software to extract the sub-channel I want. Perhaps there is some setting for this on your D-VHS deck?

If you export using "D-VHS out" from a pre-recorded program in the program list, does it record correctly to the D-VHS deck?

wilsonsoohoo

01-13-06, 11:27 PM

Josh,
Do you transfer the file to a PC before you demux it or is there software for the mac that does that?

joshMV4

01-14-06, 11:30 PM

Josh,
Do you transfer the file to a PC before you demux it or is there software for the mac that does that?

No, everything is on my mac...I don't have a PC.

Do a search on my username to read my other posts for how-to's....If you still have questions, let me know.

avnstf

01-17-06, 07:59 PM

A post in the thread on the Sony DD250/500 referred to an unofficial site about the TV Guide at http://tvgos.theabsolutenuts.com/

Having read some of this, I now understand why it takes 6 days to populate the week-long TV Guide listing, AND why - if the recorder doesn't turn itself off for a night or two - the missing days don't get filled in for 6 days. Ugh!!!

The unoffical guide is aimed at TVs that use the guide data, but much of the info at the site is also relevant to the 3410a and similar units....

The site is new, so parts are incomplete, and the various forums about the guide only have a few posts...

Jan J

01-17-06, 09:54 PM

Interesting post, anvstf!!!
It brought out a new reset code!!!

"Alternately, you can issue a "reset" command to TV Guide On Screen by entering the Guide, selecting the "Setup" tab, pressing "down" once, then entering "653274147" on your remote."

anybody try it? Could this be a new FAQ for our 'list' ??????

UncD2000

01-18-06, 12:27 AM

Presumably "down" means the "down channel" button (?). I'm not going to try this at the moment, because for about a month the guide function on my 3410A has been flawless. This started when my Host Channel changed to PBS. With Fox or ABC I would see "No Listings" over 90% of the time.

Rammitinski

01-18-06, 12:47 AM

If it ain't broke......

avnstf

01-18-06, 01:12 AM

chefklc

01-18-06, 04:36 AM

The reset we had been trying, in order to jump start the guide data download stream, was entering Menu, highlighting EZ-Scan but not engaging it, typing in 100102 and pressing Exit. I doesn't work immediately--you still have to turn your unit off and let it re-populate normally, but some users reported getting their guide data flowing again after this reset.

dicko2

01-18-06, 09:34 AM

At least on MY unit - the front panel buttons "Select" and "Left Arrow" of the 3410a will get you into a hidden menu for troubleshooting.

By pressing those two buttons on the front panel of the 3410 (not the remote) at the same time you get DIAG MODE: TS displayed on the LED front panel. (This also resets the video out mode to 480i)

Then using the remote, number buttons 0 thru 9 you can get deeper into the troubleshooting functions menu.

Specifically after getting DIAG MODE the buttons 9 then 5 brings up FACT_SET
which (I think) returns the unit to factory setings.

I have used this to reset the machine to a place where I can reset the clock.

Thanks for this tidbit. Last summer I sent my box in to LG because the guide was hung up. Nothing I read in this thread cleared it out. It was still within warrenty but cost $99 for labor. Got the box back and a week later, it hung up again. I certainly wasnt going to spend another $99 so I packed it up and put it in the closet.

Last night, I dragged it out, went to the factory reset menu and voila! it started working again. So for $99 all they did was run this menu item. I feel ripped off.

BTW, if you press "select" and "right arrow" twice, the display shows "UPGRADE". Whatever that means.

LG upgraded to 1.17 software when I sent it in and its still buggy.

Oh yeah, There's all kinds of neat tests in diagnostic mode. There is a guide diagnostic that looks like it runs 6 different tests. Mine only passed the first and failed the remaining 5. But that may have been because I wasnt tuned to a guide download station at the time I ran the test. Will have to play around some more tonight.

dickm

dicko2

01-19-06, 11:45 AM

I've tried both the 653274147 and the 100102 methods for resetting the guide and I've never seen them do anything. If I go into the guide diagnostics using 753159852 afterwards, I see no differences in any of the data shown.

The only way I've been able to reliably reset the guide is with the "select" and "left arrow" keys on the front panel and then reseting the whole machine. That of course erases all stored recordings too.

dickm

avnstf

01-19-06, 03:57 PM

The only way I've been able to reliably reset the guide is with the "select" and "left arrow" keys on the front panel and then reseting the whole machine. That of course erases all stored recordings too.

dickm

did you say in what way the guide was hung up in your unit?

several times over the last year mine has gotten hung up in one way or another, and I reset the guide by unplugging the unit for a minute or two. Of course I lose any scheduling I had done, but the progams that are saved on the hard drive are intact...

Then as far as I can tell, the guide starts repopulating as usual, i.e., each day it updates that day, the next day, and the day that's a week away...I didn't understand why it had a "hole" in the week until I went to the website cited above about the TV Guide.

Tony

wilsonsoohoo

01-19-06, 04:34 PM

I have a 169time question that I don't think has appeared in this thread yet. When I record a one-hour program OTA, the device records for 61 minutes and in the recordings list the length is shown as 61 minutes.

When I record off C-band using a 169time-modded HDD200, the times listed seem to be way off. For instance, Ocean's 12, which lasts something like 2 hours and 7 minutes, shows up as 75 minutes or something like that. It seems that all the oother things I've recorded off C-band are underestimated as well. This makes it difficult to chose the right tape for archiving to a JVC 30k.

Has anyone else encountered this? Could it be related to having swapped out the 120 GB Seagate and replacing it with a 300 GB Maxtor? And why would it affect the 169time recordings and not the OTA ones?

Should I post this in the 169time forum instead? It seems more related to here to me.

UncD2000

01-19-06, 06:16 PM

I have the same problem occasionally with OTA recordings and the standard 120 GB HDD. One hour programs that should show 61 or 62 minutes will be labeled several minutes short, but nothing is actually missing. This started on a unit that was well over a year old.

ebo

01-19-06, 07:12 PM

When I record a one-hour program OTA, the device records for 61 minutes and in the recordings list the length is shown as 61 minutes.

When I record off C-band using a 169time-modded HDD200, the times listed seem to be way off.

Has anyone else encountered this? . . . And why would it affect the 169time recordings and not the OTA ones?
I've seen similar discrepancies recording off cable, particularly before the local cable company started to scramble HBO-HD. Movies recorded off that always had listed times that were much shorter than the real running times. I suspect the LG calculates running time from file size, assuming a certain bit rate that isn't always correct.

Jan J

01-19-06, 08:47 PM

Anybody in Chicago loose Channel 9-1 "No Signal" today?

I had to go into channel edit, and re-add channel 9-1 again.

dicko2

01-20-06, 08:21 AM

did you say in what way the guide was hung up in your unit?

several times over the last year mine has gotten hung up in one way or another, and I reset the guide by unplugging the unit for a minute or two. Of course I lose any scheduling I had done, but the progams that are saved on the hard drive are intact...

Then as far as I can tell, the guide starts repopulating as usual, i.e., each day it updates that day, the next day, and the day that's a week away...I didn't understand why it had a "hole" in the week until I went to the website cited above about the TV Guide.

Tony
The guide hangs up. Actually, it never appears on screen. Then the unit gets real sluggish when responding to the remote control, then I cant set the clock because it says I have pending recordings but I cant delete the pending recordings because the guide wont display.

Unplugging for 2 minutes or 2 days doesnt make a difference. Doing any of the remote commands doesnt make any difference. So it went back to the factory once, and now I dont have to send it back ever again what with the tip on resetting the unit.

Hyrax

01-20-06, 12:45 PM

The guide hangs up. Actually, it never appears on screen. Then the unit gets real sluggish when responding to the remote control, then I cant set the clock because it says I have pending recordings but I cant delete the pending recordings because the guide wont display.

Unplugging for 2 minutes or 2 days doesnt make a difference. Doing any of the remote commands doesnt make any difference. So it went back to the factory once, and now I dont have to send it back ever again what with the tip on resetting the unit.

Nice to know. I've had the exact same problem, except unplugging for 2-3 seconds makes the 'hang up' disappear. This deletes the pending recordings and may require me to reset the channel order in the guide. I do have the earliest firmware, so that may be why unplugging works for me and not for you.

jeneral

01-20-06, 06:26 PM

I posted over a month ago re: a faulty refurb 351-xxxxx unit I purchased on eBay. I finally received the replacement last Friday, and for the most part, it appears to work well. The previous unit rarely lasted an hour without crashing.

Like I said, the unit seems to works well. The only problem I'm having with the unit is getting an EPG. I'm using cable and it refuses to download the EPG. On two different occasions, I've had the unit off for over 48 hours but the Guide light will not go off. The previous unit had no trouble getting the guide so I imagine the guide is in the cable stream. I also reset my VCR to auto a few times and it picked up the time automatically. On Wednesday morning, I reconfigured the unit for OTA only, and by the time I came home, the guide had downloaded. I wish I could leave it on OTA but I can't use cable and analog OTA at the same time (is there a workaround?). Any suggestions or tests I can run to get this EPG working with my cable provider? Like I said, the EPG worked with the previous unit.

Another odd thing about this model is the serial number. From what I've read, most units have a 351 or 451 serial number. This unit's serial number starts with LC1024xxx. Any idea what that is equivalent to?

Here's the other info:

S/W: MP1.15
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 7.1.20
Date: 2:51 PM Apr 6, 2004

alaindelon

01-22-06, 08:19 PM

For everyone with guide problems: Don't just change zip codes and do the various forms of resets described in this thread.Change to ANALOG OTA,connect any sort of antenna to ANT input and do the 24hour wait.Your unit will pick up some data even if the OTA channels are unwatchable otherwise.I have terrible reception because of a low location but still was able to get lots of guide data in 12 hours.Incredibly it turns out that even in a large city like Los Angeles,a large cableco(Adelphia)at least in some areas somehow blocked or does not send the Gemstar data even though they are under contract to do so.I have tried every single trick in this thread and thought there was something wrong with my 3410 but the guide works.The problem of course is that this procedure turns off the cable channels and now i have to try and get Adelphia to fix this.I just never thought this was the reason for my guide problem.

wilsonsoohoo

01-22-06, 10:19 PM

wilsonsoohoo

01-23-06, 02:06 PM

No, everything is on my mac...I don't have a PC.

Do a search on my username to read my other posts for how-to's....If you still have questions, let me know.

Josh,

I finally had a chance to do that search. There was a lot of information I was looking for, and it wasn't llimited to the question I asked above, but a whole lot of questions I didn't even know how to ask. Just hooked up my new Power Mac, which is replacing a 400 mHz G4 Yikes and can't wait to give them a try . . .

Thanks!

Jan J

01-23-06, 07:40 PM

Last night (Sunday) Wife was recording Law & Order on 5-1 in Chicago, and No Signal came up instead of 5-1.

We have "Prefer Digital" indicated on our OTA outside antenna setup in the LG.
Went into the Channel Edit, and found Channel 5-0 enabled, and 29 (5-1) disabled...
Deleted 5-0 and enabled 29 (5-1)... and smashed record..

In the past, only Channel 9-1 (19) would do that... This is the first time for 5-1...

Any others come up with that?

JohnS-MI

01-24-06, 08:45 AM

We have "Prefer Digital" indicated on our OTA outside antenna setup in the LG.

Where do you set that preference? I've never noticed it.

Jan J

01-24-06, 08:49 AM

Where do you set that preference? I've never noticed it.

I'm sorry, I got my Mitsubishi and LG menus mixed up!!!!

That is on the antenna selection filter of the Mits 62525, Not LG.

However, the other symptoms as described were accurate... Record of 5-1 was successful last PM.

Sorry for the confusion..... Jan

UncD2000

01-24-06, 09:16 AM

Jan, usually I record NBC from Comcast 115-5 because it is usually dependable, equal in quality to 5-1 OTA, and immune to any atmospheric anomaly. Last night was the rare exception - 115-5 had breakups and so I recorded Vegas & Medium from 5-1. I haven't watched them yet, but even 5-1 was having a few glitches at the start of Surface, and since it's one of my favorites, I watched it live on D* Ch. 82 (NBC HD NYC).

This type of situation is why I've never been much of a fan of Tivo functionality. We do have a D* HD Tivo in our system, but I like to monitor things pretty closely and work around these foulups while they are happening. You never know, especially with NBC in Chicago. You might get SD widescreen, 4:3, no 5.1 audio, etc. Using Season Pass with Tivo is fine for those who like it, but "set it and forget it" is too risky for me.

MrHifi

01-24-06, 02:30 PM

I have two LST-3410A's connected to the same Comcast cable and OTA antenna. Both are 4.15 units. One is 7.12 FW the other I believe is 7.17. Last weekend the program listings failed to update on the 7.12 machine. The channel lineup and the assigned digital numbers all changed. I had made no manual changes to this machine at all. The other 3410A continued to perform normally.

After years of living with and loving my 3410's, i have 3, i know to assign a new ZIP code and wait 24 hours. I did that. While it changed the channels, it just assigned the OTA channel numbers. No program listings were recorded. Next night I changed the ZIP back to 21035, my ZIP. The channels again were correct but the assigned numbers were wrong. No program listings.

i corrected the station digital and OTA assignments. No listings again. For some reason this machine is no longer processing guide data. I am ready to unplug and start all over but am not eager to spend another couple hours and wait overnight for the machine to update properly. BTW, the assigned stations and digital station numbers are the same on both machines.

Any help would be appreciated. I would really like to get Listig INFO back on this machine. BTW, it is the newest of the 3 machines. Paid $567.00

Hyrax

01-24-06, 06:06 PM

Art -
It seems to me that the problem may be bad mapping of stations in the guide to your enabled stations. Try going to your edit channels and simply turn off then turn on the OTA stations that are already enabled. Then go to the Guide screen that lets you edit what station goes with what network.

Every once in a while, there is a glitch in the system and I need to remap the stations on my 3410A, which happens to be the same vintage as yours. My 3410A will occasionally map all of my OTA stations to the wrong channel. I only have 6 OTA stations, so it is relatively simple for me to fix it. For example, my Fox is on channel 25-1. The guide will have it as channel 725, in error, and the guide will be empty. ABC should be 5-1, the guide will have it as 705 in error. In order to fix the error, all I need to do is enter the correct channel number and the guide will fill up.

I hope this works for you.

Tim

Edited to make it a little bit clearer.

Jan J

01-24-06, 06:44 PM

Art I second what Hyrax posted....

avnstf

01-24-06, 10:23 PM

After years of living with and loving my 3410's, i have 3

I am just curious how the remotes work when you have more than one 3410a...I've considered it, but - because I like to keep everything in the stand holding up my Sony Tv - I think there might have problem....

MrHifi

01-25-06, 07:52 AM

Hyrax and Jan,

Feels good to talk again with the guys who struggled with this DVR in its infancy. Seems like we went through hell just a few years ago.

Anyway, like Hyrax said the offending unit did remap itself. I have gone back several times and remapped correctly. I just unplugged it for 10 min. When I replugged, i checked the station mappings and zip code. Everything is correct, just like before I unplugged it. I unplugged/replugged because this morning the good machine was showing a white light indicating that program info. was available. The failed unit had no guide light. After replug, I got the white light. Now to see if i get guide info. I get OTT from the DC metro area and I get comcast cable from Annapolis, MD. Does anyone know the data transmitting stations from the DC area and from Annapolis comcast?

Yesterday afternoon I erased all the pending recordings. Last night it downloaded perfectly. Remember, i had changed ZIP to another then back again. I reset the channel numbers to coincide with those that the LST 3410A assigns with no luck. Redoing these two things and erasing pending recordings fixed it.

Thanks to all who made suggestions.

Some may ask why I like this unit so much. Besides its delivery of an outstandding 96" wide picture on my 3 gun CRT front projector, I get many channels that I can not receive with the SONY or the RCA tuners.

MrHifi

01-25-06, 07:54 AM

I separate my units by 3 ft. The narrow beamwidth of the remote is helpful. Careful aim is required.

UncD2000

01-25-06, 09:18 AM

You do have to be careful with 2 units. An occasional "disaster" is almost inevitable. Needless to say, the more horizontal separation between units the better. Aiming the remote to the outside of the intended unit helps a lot.

At present I have one 3410A loaned out, and am using the Comcast 6412 DVR with the other. Their capabilities tend to complement each other.

Jan J

01-25-06, 11:51 AM

When I had 2 units (Back when a new unit was given to me to test Y/C timings-- I did not exchange my origional unit, and now only have one unit.) I separated the units horizontally and vertically... One was under the 62" display, and the other was above it to the right... (Separation was I'm guessing 7-8 feet diagonally) We'd be sitting 10-12 feet away on couch........ We'd still occasionally tripped both with the remote.
I experimented angling the rightmost to the right, and leftmost to the left, and that helped significatly!!! (Kind of like angling video heads when guard bands are removed on Video tape!)

It's been a while since I posted anything, but here's an update of firmware... I've not heard any reply's to my emails from (Contact #2 & #3) so I've asked Contact #1 to see if he can get V1.17 firmware.... As a review, I've got V1.14, V1.15, V1.16 firmware on disk, and I have NO INTEREST in trying V1.16 unless I get a 2nd unit to 'play' with....

POWERFUL

01-25-06, 04:53 PM

Hey Jan, how about getting someone to get us the actually code so that we can make some mods to the box, like let's say being able to at least watch something we've recorded while another item is being recorded? Or being able to d/l the guide from OTA while still having it look at the cable channels we can get unencrypted?

Jan J

01-25-06, 06:15 PM

I wish I could get what I was promised (What was it -- ) 4 months ago???

UncD2000

01-25-06, 09:37 PM

Hey Jan, how about getting someone to get us the actually code so that we can make some mods to the box, like let's say being able to at least watch something we've recorded while another item is being recorded?If I remember correctly, an LG spokesman (jferg?) said the 3410A was incapable of this before the product was even available in the U. S. This deficiency, like its lack of an S-video input, was not received favorably in this forum,

dcorreia

01-25-06, 10:40 PM

Hello!
I tried to search in this message but wasnt really successful, I upgraded my LST-3410a from the 120gb to 500gb 7200rpm.. i know the rpm is a bit on the high side but power isnt the problem im having.. Everytime I turn on the unit, it now takes over 20-35 seconds to initialize the drive causing scheduled recordings to fail on startup. I have over 30 recordings and at least 35+ hrs free. Any suggestions besides leaving unit off overnight for guide then leaving it on during the day?

Thanks, Danny

POWERFUL

01-25-06, 11:45 PM

If I remember correctly, an LG spokesman (jferg?) said the 3410A was incapable of this before the product was even available in the U. S. This deficiency, like its lack of an S-video input, was not received favorably in this forum,
Well then that is a PITA isn't it? I was just pissed because I was watching a show 1 second and then the next playback was stopped for a recording. Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the best features of owning a DVR the ability to watch and record your favorite shows anytime you wanted? I believe the Panny DVD recorder allow you to do this and they are a feature on the ones without a hard drive although I believe you have to use their DVD-RAM format discs to do so, and I'm sure various other DVD recorders do to only the Panny comes to mind. Does the Sony HD recorder allow you to watch and record at the same time?

UncD2000

01-25-06, 11:56 PM

Yes. The Sony had the advantage of at least a year extra development time, so it is able to access already recorded material while it is in record mode. The 3410A is really primitive compared to my Comcast 2-tuner 6412 DVR. It's worth $9.99/month for its capabilities.

stjr

01-26-06, 02:04 AM

Digitude

01-26-06, 07:10 AM

I believe the Panny DVD recorder allow you to do this and they are a feature on the ones without a hard drive although I believe you have to use their DVD-RAM format discs to do so, and I'm sure various other DVD recorders do to only the Panny comes to mind. My Panny DVR with HDD won't do it. You can watch a prerecorded show while recording a different one or you can chase the one being recorded. I don't know of any of these boxes with two discreet tuners.

Hyrax

01-26-06, 11:15 AM

Does the Sony HD recorder allow you to watch and record at the same time?
I'm wondering if I can still buy a Sony HD Recorder? I've been thinking of getting one, but fear I'm too late.

Forgive me if I'm wrong but wasn't one of the best features of owning a DVR the ability to watch and record your favorite shows anytime you wanted?
For me the best thing about DVRs is to be able to timeshift/chase recording. I love being able to start watching a football game 1.5 hours after it started and finish it before the next game starts.There are many 'best things' about DVRs, and the 3410A attempts to do most of them. However, the 3410A never claimed that you could watch a recorded show and record another at the same time.

What I really wish it would do is allow me to record a show and dump it to my D-VHS deck via the guide.... It is a pain to have to record and then dump to tape.

MrHifi

01-26-06, 11:28 AM

If I may Unc and since we've been in this thread for so long, I'm gonna ask some questions.

I subscribe to basic cable service and high speed internet from comcast. I pay $46.00/mo. I also subscribe to HBO, Starz and Showtime which I recceive via my C Band satellite/4DTV 922/HDD200 receiver. I also receive about 30+ basic and premium channels via the satellite. I pay $55.00 a month for this. The result is that with the LG's ability to receive many otherwise unavailable channels and the 4DTV system, I receive over 70 channels of movies 5 of which are in HD. I also receive 12 channels in HD via the 4DTV or the LG.

So I wind up paying $101.00 a month for what I described above. I am ccurious to learn what others pay for this kind of service choice when it is delivered by Comcast. Please include Box costs etc. I am interested in recurring monthly cost. I'm trying to decide whether to abandon my dish and go 100% with comcast. It would certainly be easier. Un fortunately, my LG's would be useless for receiving and recording HD from the cable as it is now if I get the cable. I presume the Motorola DVR records the HD movies beautifully in HD. That would be worth a lot. How much Unc?

UncD2000

01-26-06, 11:57 AM

If I may Unc and since we've been in this thread for so long, I'm gonna ask some questions. . . I presume the Motorola DVR records the HD movies beautifully in HD. That would be worth a lot. How much Unc?Art, I am somewhat in the same boat as I subscribe to both D* and Comcast at the moment. I added Comcast last June because D* (still doesn't) have Comcast SportsNet HD (I didn't want to watch the Sox in SD), Cinemax HD, Starz HD, TNT HD, or INHD 1&2. If you enter your Zipcode on comcast.com you'll see that there is always some kind of special 6-month rate. In June they offered Digital Silver w/HBO for $29.99. I added Cinemax for $10 and the 6412 DVR for $9.99, so my monthly total was $49.99 + about $2 tax for 6 months. When that deal was close to expiring, I checked the website, and the special was $39.99 for Digital Gold with HBO & Starz. This sounded good, so I called in to see if it was available to existing customers (there was no exclusion on the website), and the rep said he had something even better to offer - Digital Platinum (HBO/Showtime/Starz) for the same $39.99. Continuing with my 1-year $10 price on Cinemax (it's always a la carte) and the DVR added up to $59.99 + $3 tax, so I have this until late June. It includes all 16 HD channels that Comcast carries here. I learned on this forum that this deal expired 12/31. The current special is a bit less attractive. When late June arrives, I'll try to change to whatever 6-month special is current then. I'll keep this up until D* gets all the national HD channels onto the MPEG4 system, probably at least a year from now, at which point I shouldn't need Comcast any longer.
You should check for your area because these deals may not be uniform across the U.S. If you call in, remind the CSR that the website doesn't limit these offers to new customers.

As for the 6412 DVR, I use component because my 5-yr-old RCA F38310 has no digital inputs, and CRTs do fine with component anyway. The HD PQ is excellent, but the analog SD (which I rarely use) is fair at best. The current Phase III HDMI model is said to have improved SD quality. The 2 -tuner 6412 is an outstanding device, but it has a few quirks (well noted in its thread). (1) It very often responds slowly to commands from the remote. This can be quite aggravating, especially when it executes several all at once and overshoots what you wanted. (2) You have to turn the box off to engage the closed captions, and you really don't want to do that when it is recording something. (3) This isn't a problem for me, because I have the 3410A as a helper, but many find the 120GB HDD capacity too limiting. Overall, a very nice piece of equipment which does a great job with any HD source.

dcorreia

01-26-06, 12:24 PM

I was able to record 47 events with a Seagate 300GB 7200.8 ATA drive, before failure on bootup on the 48th event. I mounted the drive externally to avoid internal heat issues. See post 2720 in this thread.

I can try that, though i wouldn't think that would make a difference, I installed a small fan blowing air in , so at least the mainboard shouldn't be having any problems.. I deleted a few programs which i think has helped but I don't think thats the solution.

jcg

01-26-06, 01:05 PM

I've been away from this thread for awhile, but have a quick question. I've had my 3410 (1.15 firmware) since they first came out, and have never been able to get quide data (I just use it OTA in the SF Bay Area). The strangest thing happened the other day when I went to record something (I just use the manual record option or timeshift) as the guide data was there. This is the first time I've ever seen it and am wondering if something may have changed in the SF Bay Area? Of course it was only there for a day and it's gone again, but figured I'd post about it.

Also did LG ever come out with a replacement for the 3410 or is there any rumors of a replacement?

jcg

stjr

01-26-06, 01:13 PM

The guide works fine for me in the Bay Area with 1.15 firmware.

jcg

01-26-06, 01:21 PM

jcg

01-26-06, 01:24 PM

I know many people in the Bay Area get the guide, but as I said mine has never worked (except for the other day as I mentioned). I'm over by Livermore/Dublin so maybe it's just a signal strength issue, but I get all the channels fine. Anyways I've lived with no guide for so long it's not really an issue for me, but I was just wondering if maybe they changed the channel it was broadcast on or something and maybe that's why I got it.

jcg

The guide works fine for me in the Bay Area with 1.15 firmware.

mstanl

01-26-06, 01:39 PM

I tried to search in this message but wasnt really successful, I upgraded my LST-3410a from the 120gb to 500gb 7200rpm.. i know the rpm is a bit on the high side but power isnt the problem im having.. Everytime I turn on the unit, it now takes over 20-35 seconds to initialize the drive causing scheduled recordings to fail on startup. I have over 30 recordings and at least 35+ hrs free. Any suggestions besides leaving unit off overnight for guide then leaving it on during the day?

Thanks, Danny

I have a 300GB in my 3410 and from my testing you have a problem when the unit needs to power on and record with over 30 shows on disk. I do not think that its the size of the 300 or 500 disk, but by number of shows on disk. Only fix for the initialize problem is to leave the units power on or just limit the number of shows to less then 30.

Mike

stjr

01-26-06, 01:45 PM

I know many people in the Bay Area get the guide, but as I said mine has never worked (except for the other day as I mentioned). I'm over by Livermore/Dublin so maybe it's just a signal strength issue, but I get all the channels fine. Anyways I've lived with no guide for so long it's not really an issue for me, but I was just wondering if maybe they changed the channel it was broadcast on or something and maybe that's why I got it.

jcgI've picked up the guide (TVGOS) from different channels at various times. The 3410a will sometimes re-select a different channel whenever I reset TVGOS. I've seen the 3410a pick up TVGOS on analog channels 5 (KPIX), 7 (KGO) or 9 (KQED).

mstanl

01-26-06, 01:48 PM

Anyone care to comment on the Sony HDD250 vs the LG 3410 that has both units? I have the 3410 and am considering getting a second HD DVR. Currently I just get my HD via OTA and I think these are the only OTA HD DVR options. Is the current Sony model a 2nd generation DVR or is it the same one they came out with about when the 3410 came out?

jcg

I have the HDD500 and the LG3410 with a 300GB disk in it. I love both. The LG can dump to my DVCR and can program the screen size from 1 to 16 for full screen display when program is 4x3. I like the Sony in that you can watch a show off of disk while recording an other show. I like being able to record two shows at once
using both SONY and LG, I also have the Panny 50PX500 with the builtin HD tuner and TV Guide. The sony has a setting to record currently watched show to disk for 30, 60 or 90 minutes, which means you can pause or rewind a show anytime, no need to hit the timeshift button. I like that the LG will save your timeshift show to disk and also it as no limits on saved timeshift execpt the size of disk. I like the 3410 being able to edit down the show on disk. I like both ways the units show whats on the disk. Both use the TV Guide the same way so no problem for me on that.

Mike

Jan J

01-26-06, 03:08 PM

We've Comcast Digital Cable, with HBO, Showtime. We've an HD Box but for a different reason which I will elaborate on later....
We've an Outside Antenna that provides OTA HD & TV Guide Data.
The Display (Mits 62525 -- 720P) and LG3410a DVR each get The OTA Antenna and a 'Modified' version of Comcast Cable.
WE DID NOT ATTEMPT A COMCAST CARD IN OUR MITS 62525 Display!
A selection of DVD's(YUV), LGDVR (330Gb Hard Drive DVI/HDMI) SVHS(Y/C), Cable box(YUV), DV camera(Y/C & Firewire) hits the display, with analog audio from each source hitting the Mits Display and output to Bose Surround System as the switched analog feed, and Digital audio going direct to BOSE where on some channels, Bose Auto-switches to Digital Audio using "Machine Smarter than Operator" technique....

Because we had Analog cable for years, we distributed it to all rooms in the house, and VHS & SVHS decks recorded HBO & Showtime at will for years.

Then Comes the Decision from Comcast to Remove HBO & Showtime (from analog cable)..... And that threw me into a Tizzy (to be polite)... I Calculated I'd need to spend ~$55 a month for increased box rentals.... Didn't like that at all....
Being the "Tinkerer" that I am, I started playing around with things, and getting information on Boxes that Comcast supports...

Here's what I ended up with:
The cable feed comes in, and after amp, splits to three paths: One Path is spare and terminated. 2nd path hits a Channel 4 inserter, with Notch and insert combine filters for Ch4. The 3rd path goes direct to the Cable Box.
The HD Box YUV (Set for 720P) goes to Mits Display. The HD Box analog stereo audio is "Y" split: One feed going to Mits Display for the 'Box' input, the other analog stereo audio goes to a CH 4 Modulator. The SVideo(Y/C) video from the HD Box goes to the CH 4 Modulator.
The CH 4 Modulator RF CH4 goes to the Channel 4 Inserter, where it is Bandpassed filtered, and added to the Cable feed on Ch 4.
This Resultant "Cable + 4" feed goes to a quad RF Amp. which feeds: The Mits Display, LG DVR, SVHS Deck, and the house distribution, which feeds the rest of the house....

Anything SD, HD selected on the Comcast HD Box is automatically re-transmitted on CH 4 for the entire House to enjoy!!!! Any HD feed watched, is downconverted to SD in the HD Box and re-transmitted as well as any SD feed....

So we have ONE HD Box... That's it!!! and life is nearly back to where it was before Comcast decided to remove HBO & Showtime from Analog Cable!!!!

Took a while to get it going.... But it works FLAWLESSLY now!!!!

Hyrax

01-26-06, 05:05 PM

I have a 300GB in my 3410 and from my testing you have a problem when the unit needs to power on and record with over 30 shows on disk. I do not think that its the size of the 300 or 500 disk, but by number of shows on disk. Only fix for the initialize problem is to leave the units power on or just limit the number of shows to less then 30.

Mike

When you set up a recording you can tell it to start x minutes early. So, it it takes 10 minutes to initialize 'the big kahuna' hard drive why cannot you just tell it to start early enough? Or am I missing something?

joshMV4

01-26-06, 05:31 PM

When you set up a recording you can tell it to start x minutes early. So, it it takes 10 minutes to initialize 'the big kahuna' hard drive why cannot you just tell it to start early enough? Or am I missing something?

I suspect that his problem is this....The unit is off, and it tries to turn on one or two minutes before the scheduled time is that it is supposed to start. But it takes a long time to initialize (even longer the more programs you have saved and the bigger your drive). By the time it is finished initializing, it realizes that the time it was supposed to start has already passed, so it just gives an error message saying the scheduled program was missed, or something like that.

Danny,
My suggestion is this...

Say you want to tape something from 8:00 to 9:00...Schedule manually something for one minute long from 7:56 to 7:57, then add the show you want to watch (and I always add a couple minutes before and after, just in case) from 7:58 to 9:02. Then whether it does or does not record the one minute blip at 7:56, who cares. It is now on, and knows it has to record again immediately after, so it will not power down, and should record the real show you wanted to watch at 8:00. It should then power off atapprox 9:03.

avnstf

01-26-06, 05:58 PM

I suspect that his problem is this....The unit is off, and it tries to turn on one or two minutes before the scheduled time is that it is supposed to start. But it takes a long time to initialize (even longer the more programs you have saved and the bigger your drive). By the time it is finished initializing, it realizes that the time it was supposed to start has already passed, so it just gives an error message saying the scheduled program was missed, or something like that.

Danny,
My suggestion is this...

Say you want to tape something from 8:00 to 9:00...Schedule manually something for one minute long from 7:56 to 7:57, then add the show you want to watch (and I always add a couple minutes before and after, just in case) from 7:58 to 9:02. Then whether it does or does not record the one minute blip at 7:56, who cares. It is now on, and knows it has to record again immediately after, so it will not power down, and should record the real show you wanted to watch at 8:00. It should then power off atapprox 9:03.

Of course these various suggestions reduce the convenience of using the unit...this problem with using too big a hard drive was discussed much earlier in this thread, and it is caused by the "catch 22" noted above...it seems that every different unit has its own little screwup - of course this one doesn't occur unless one goes for too big an expansion of hard-drive size...

Jan J

01-26-06, 06:34 PM

My wife has yet to encounter a problem with initializing with the 330Gb Maxtor....
Don't know why... and I did alert her to watch out for the problem.... None so far....

stjr

01-26-06, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by joshMV4
My suggestion is this...

Say you want to tape something from 8:00 to 9:00...Schedule manually something for one minute long from 7:56 to 7:57, then add the show you want to watch (and I always add a couple minutes before and after, just in case) from 7:58 to 9:02. Then whether it does or does not record the one minute blip at 7:56, who cares. It is now on, and knows it has to record again immediately after, so it will not power down, and should record the real show you wanted to watch at 8:00. It should then power off atapprox 9:03.If I recall correctly, whenever there is a recording failure on bootup, the 3410a must be powered down and re-booted successfully in order to re-enable the timed recording feature successfully.

wookatok

01-28-06, 03:36 PM

My wife has yet to encounter a problem with initializing with the 330Gb Maxtor....
Don't know why... and I did alert her to watch out for the problem.... None so far....

Jam, where did you purchase your 330Gb Maxtor. I was not able to locate it on the web.

-James

Jan J

01-28-06, 10:15 PM

Maxtor Maxline II 5A320J0 320GB Ultra ATA/133 5400RPM Hard Drive [ SKU: HD-5A320J0, Qty: 1, Price I paid: $189.00 ]

http://www.etech4sale.com/products/partinfo-id-116906.html

By the way, sorry, it is a 320Gb, not 330Gb... Another silipup of the old knoggen!!!

A. Vandelay

01-31-06, 11:28 AM

In Chicago, the TVguide comes over one of the PBS stations (host station). I believe this is an "analog broadcast station". What I want to know is how will TVGuide get to us when the analog channels are turned off? Are the LG and "other" OTA boxes going to work and receive the TVGuide at that time?

Did this question ever get answered?

UncD2000

01-31-06, 11:53 AM

Not definitively. There has been much speculation, but at this point no one knows for sure.

avnstf

01-31-06, 06:39 PM

dicko2

02-01-06, 08:24 AM

If you havent done it yet, I would read this thread from a few days ago on how to totally reset the box with the secret front panel key combination. Its one or two pages back.

It resets everything. Puts the box in 480i mode, wipes the harddrive, resets the guide, wipes all channels, puts it back to factory initial conditions.

Then reconfigure the guide to your zipcode, rescan for channels, and see what happens.

If it still doesnt do anything, I'd try a different zipcode, perhaps closer to the transmitter.

dickm

A. Vandelay

02-01-06, 01:54 PM

Hi...I've asked this question before, because ever since I got my 3410a - although it works as it should for most things - the TV Guide still doesn't show program listings for the digital channels from KQED, the SF bay PBS station, as a result of which I never know what's available in HD unless I go upstairs to my computer and go to titantv...

But I just noticed that in the thread on the Sony HDD 250/500 unit, their TV Guide listings DO include the listing for all 5 KQED digital channels...since both these units ought to be getting the same data, I can't figure out what's going on with mine.

I DO pick up the KGED digital channels when I do my channel scan, so I can TUNE to 9-1 to 9-5, but not having the listings is a pain.

Any ideas? Thanks - Tony

PS I should have said that I get these OTA, and have no cable etc.

I don't know if this helps, but here is a quote from the Sony thread

"The LG and the Sony use different versions of TVGOS. The LG's is an earlier version which has a slightly different interface and doesn't list as many channels. My Panasonic DMR-E85H DVD/HDD recorder also uses the older version. Note that TVGOS has two sets of support pages at http://www.vgi.com/support/ for the two versions.

In my area, the two versions use different host channels. "

avnstf

02-01-06, 03:06 PM

I don't know if this helps, but here is a quote from the Sony thread

"The LG and the Sony use different versions of TVGOS. The LG's is an earlier version which has a slightly different interface and doesn't list as many channels. My Panasonic DMR-E85H DVD/HDD recorder also uses the older version. Note that TVGOS has two sets of support pages at http://www.vgi.com/support/ for the two versions.

In my area, the two versions use different host channels. "

Thanks - In fact that was a response to a message I left there...

I just wish there were 3410a owners in the Bay area who I could check with about this....

If it is true that the data that this unit picks up is from a statioin that is NOT broadcasting the info for the PBS digital stations, maybe we could at least get them to change so that they're broadcasting the info for the HD station...after all that's what this unit is about!

:(

stjr

02-01-06, 03:57 PM

I stated before that I've seen the 3410a pick up TVGOS on analog channels 5 (KPIX), 7 (KGO) and 9 (KQED). My guide data has never included programming for ATSC channel 9 (30)(KQED).

avnstf

02-01-06, 04:36 PM

I stated before that I've seen the 3410a pick up TVGOS on analog channels 5 (KPIX), 7 (KGO) and 9 (KQED). My guide data has never included programming for ATSC channel 9 (30)(KQED).

Ah...sorry. But do you mean that you are getting the guide data FROM those analog channels? If so, how can you tell?

Assuming you ARE getting the programming for most of the bay area network digital stations, have you wondered why the guide data doesn't include programming for 9-1? Maybe we ought to try to get them to include this channel in our guide data...any thoughts?

Thanks - Tony

A. Vandelay

02-01-06, 05:19 PM

Did anyone every figure out why Circuit City is listing these on their website as "coming soon"?

avnstf

02-01-06, 05:33 PM

Did anyone every figure out why Circuit City is listing these on their website as "coming soon"?

i think they are screwed up...when I stopped at Circuit City, where I bought one of these last year, and pressed them to see what they had coming up, their computer showed the Sony HDD250 or 500!!!

Joe Bee

02-01-06, 06:44 PM

Thanks - In fact that was a response to a message I left there...

I just wish there were 3410a owners in the Bay area who I could check with about this....

:(

I have a 3410a, and live a few miles north of you in El Cerrito. My 3410a has been nearly problem free over the 18 months I've owned. My biggest peeve, like yours, is the Guide data is so incomplete. I especially miss the ability to easily record [with labels, etc] programs on any of KQED's five channels.

My guess is that no matter what zipcode you enter, you are not going to get listings for KQED. I sure wish I ws wrong.

Joe Bee

Jan J

02-01-06, 08:43 PM

Whereas I don't yet have a data file for V1.17, I did get the following email today regarding What was changed in V1.17 compared to V1.15.....

Hello, Jan. Sorry for late delivery of update. Ver 1.17 has that

1. improved speed of channel changing time.
2. audio problem fixed: there was no audio problem with TNT HD before.
3. when a copied program from DVHS was played with double speed, picture was broken. It is fixed.

That’s the difference between 1.15 and 1.17. Hope it would help.

stjr

02-01-06, 09:31 PM

Assuming you ARE getting the programming for most of the bay area network digital stations, have you wondered why the guide data doesn't include programming for 9-1? Maybe we ought to try to get them to include this channel in our guide data...any thoughts?

Thanks - TonyI wonder, but it's easier for me to set a manual recording event than to call a bunch of people to try to get the guide fixed. I just wanted to let you know that the lack of 9-1 information is not specific to TVGOS from any particular station. If you can get it fixed, I will salute you.

avnstf

02-02-06, 01:10 AM

I wonder, but it's easier for me to set a manual recording event than to call a bunch of people to try to get the guide fixed. I just wanted to let you know that the lack of 9-1 information is not specific to TVGOS from any particular station. If you can get it fixed, I will salute you.

I understand...but what bothers me about the lack of 9-1 on the guide is not so much the push button recording, but rather that I rely substantially on the guide to know what the program schedule is...and I can't do that for KQED, so I tend not to watch (or record) it as much as I would...

Jan J

02-02-06, 12:47 PM

UPDATE!!!!

I'm at work, but just checked my home email....

I have V1.17 firmware code awaiting me!!!

jcg

02-02-06, 01:58 PM

Thanks for the comparison. Are both units similar in terms of the OTA tuner sensitivity? I'm about 50 miles from the SF towers and have a Channel Master 7777 preamp just to pickup HDTV stations with the 3410 (which is supposed to have a pretty sensistive tuner). Also how about commercail skipping? Does the Sony do a standard 30 second skip or does it have some kind of smart skip (which I've kind of gotten used to) like the 3410? My main grip with the 3410 has always been not being able to record / watch at the same time, so that is a nice feature of the Sony.

jcg

I have the HDD500 and the LG3410 with a 300GB disk in it. I love both. The LG can dump to my DVCR and can program the screen size from 1 to 16 for full screen display when program is 4x3. I like the Sony in that you can watch a show off of disk while recording an other show. I like being able to record two shows at once
using both SONY and LG, I also have the Panny 50PX500 with the builtin HD tuner and TV Guide. The sony has a setting to record currently watched show to disk for 30, 60 or 90 minutes, which means you can pause or rewind a show anytime, no need to hit the timeshift button. I like that the LG will save your timeshift show to disk and also it as no limits on saved timeshift execpt the size of disk. I like the 3410 being able to edit down the show on disk. I like both ways the units show whats on the disk. Both use the TV Guide the same way so no problem for me on that.

Mike

jcg

02-02-06, 02:05 PM

Rammitinski

02-02-06, 05:44 PM

Thanks for the comparison. Are both units similar in terms of the OTA tuner sensitivity? I'm about 50 miles from the SF towers and have a Channel Master 7777 preamp just to pickup HDTV stations with the 3410 (which is supposed to have a pretty sensistive tuner). Also how about commercail skipping? Does the Sony do a standard 30 second skip or does it have some kind of smart skip (which I've kind of gotten used to) like the 3410? My main grip with the 3410 has always been not being able to record / watch at the same time, so that is a nice feature of the Sony.

jcg Can't speak for the 3410, but my Sony's tuner is pretty sensitive, although just a tad less than my Accurian. The Sony beats the USDigital I tried by a mile, though. The original 3410 had a 3rd gen. chip, where the Sony and the Accurian have the 4th. Somebody mentioned that a newer make 3410 they had seemed improved over an older one they also still had, so it's possible that they upgraded the chip. Don't know for sure though. Anyway the Sony's worked great for me.

JohnS-MI

02-02-06, 05:57 PM

My guide has never worked as everything just shows "no listing". I did go into the diag mode and my host id and host channel are both 0x0. How does the 3410 fill in these values? Is mine just 0x0 because it's not getting any guide data or is in not getting any guide data because these are set at 0x0?

jcg

OTA or via cable? It has to find which station broadcasts the guide data, then collect it. The station has to be enabled in the analog tuner, and the antenna has to provide adequate reception. The station is probably the analog PBS channel, but sometimes one of the networks is the source (I don't know for your area).

I had problems with my unit initially. I had to enable the analog PBS channel, and I have to orient my indoor Silver Sensor for the station at night after I turn unit off. With that, it has worked well for over a month.

I assume your 0x0 reading means it has been unsuccessful in even determining the proper channel to listen to for guide data. Once it finds the right channel, it will take a few days to fill up the whole week as only a few days data is broadcast each day.

jcg

02-03-06, 10:56 AM

My setup is OTA only. As I said I need a preamp just to get HDTV stations and I have a CM 4228 antenna. The antenna and preamp are both UHF as that is where all the HDTV channels are, so my VHF reception won't be very good as I'm about 50 miles from the broadcast antennas. I did do an EZ Scan and do have some regular VHF channels, but obviously not the one that broadcasts the guide. Anyways not a big deal as I've lived with it like this for a couple years now and it works fine just doing manual records or timeshifting.

jcg

OTA or via cable? It has to find which station broadcasts the guide data, then collect it. The station has to be enabled in the analog tuner, and the antenna has to provide adequate reception. The station is probably the analog PBS channel, but sometimes one of the networks is the source (I don't know for your area).

I had problems with my unit initially. I had to enable the analog PBS channel, and I have to orient my indoor Silver Sensor for the station at night after I turn unit off. With that, it has worked well for over a month.

I assume your 0x0 reading means it has been unsuccessful in even determining the proper channel to listen to for guide data. Once it finds the right channel, it will take a few days to fill up the whole week as only a few days data is broadcast each day.

jcg

02-03-06, 11:40 AM

How does commercail skipping work on the Sony?

jcg

Can't speak for the 3410, but my Sony's tuner is pretty sensitive, although just a tad less than my Accurian. The Sony beats the USDigital I tried by a mile, though. The original 3410 had a 3rd gen. chip, where the Sony and the Accurian have the 4th. Somebody mentioned that a newer make 3410 they had seemed improved over an older one they also still had, so it's possible that they upgraded the chip. Don't know for sure though. Anyway the Sony's worked great for me.

mstanl

02-03-06, 12:08 PM

How does commercail skipping work on the Sony?

jcg

You can set the sony remote to skip F or R by a set amount of time.
Like I have my sony set to F 60 seconds and R for 15 seconds.
Works much bertter then my LG, I like the sony method much better it
is faster and I do not need to hit the F button as many time as the LG.
Also it is tru that the LG will skip F a set amount of time based on the amount
that is recorded. Like 1 minute if the show is 1 hour recorded or 2 minutes
if it is a 2 hour recorded show but it also moves back that same amount, unless
you use the smart skip,

Just what I think
Mike

jcg

02-04-06, 11:55 AM

Thanks for the explanation. I personally like 30 second skip too since I've had a replaytv for ~5 yrs and still use it for all my SD recording. I've gotten used to the smart skip, but it definately takes more button pushes to get through the typical 2-3 minute commercial blocks.

How do you get the LG to skip by 1m for a 1hr show? I've had the LG for quite some time and never figured that out. I thought the only option was smart skip (the up or down arrows)? I know you can hit the right/left arrows too for drag +/-, but that also seems to do some kind of smart skip just in much larger increments (much more than 1 min).

jcg

You can set the sony remote to skip F or R by a set amount of time.
Like I have my sony set to F 60 seconds and R for 15 seconds.
Works much bertter then my LG, I like the sony method much better it
is faster and I do not need to hit the F button as many time as the LG.
Also it is tru that the LG will skip F a set amount of time based on the amount
that is recorded. Like 1 minute if the show is 1 hour recorded or 2 minutes
if it is a 2 hour recorded show but it also moves back that same amount, unless
you use the smart skip,

Just what I think
Mike

UncD2000

02-04-06, 02:53 PM

avnstf

02-04-06, 03:41 PM

With a 1-hr recorded show, one quick push on the "drag+" causes a 3-min skip. If that is insufficient to skip the commercial, I hit 5X FF (or even 20X FF) to get through it. If the recorded show is 2 hrs, "drag+" jumps forward 6 min, so you have to hit Rew & 5X or 20X to return to the end of the commercial.

For a 1-hour show, my 3410 a skips forward TWO minutes if I tap the right drag button. That's 1/30th of the show length...then I can hit the x5 or x20 for a few seconds to get to the end of the typical 3-minute commercial. I'd prefer there were a 1-minute skip button, but....guess you can't have everything.

On the other hand, if I'm watching a recorded movie, I usually forget and still tap the right drag button, but then it skips 4 or 6 minutes, depending on whether it's a 2 or 3 hour movie...(a REAL drag!) - usually I remember to stop doing this around the 3rd or 4th commercial...

jcg

02-04-06, 06:12 PM

I didn't realize drag+/- was time based so that's kind of cool. I always thought it was just a bigger version of smart skip. Anyways we have different people saying it skips a different amount for 1 hr shows (1, 2 & 3 minutes), so I'll play with it a bit to see which it actually is. Since I do manual records (my guide has never worked) I always start 5 minutes early and end 5 minutes late, plus the 3410 adds a bit, so I end up with about 72 minutes I believe for a 1 hour show. I wonder where drag+/1 jumps from one increment of skip time to the next? Anyways I'll play around with a bit too to see if I can figure that out. Seems like I might be using drag+ a bit more now that I know how it works.

jcg

With a 1-hr recorded show, one quick push on the "drag+" causes a 3-min skip. If that is insufficient to skip the commercial, I hit 5X FF (or even 20X FF) to get through it. If the recorded show is 2 hrs, "drag+" jumps forward 6 min, so you have to hit Rew & 5X or 20X to return to the end of the commercial.

avnstf

02-04-06, 07:58 PM

I wonder where drag+/1 jumps from one increment of skip time to the next? Anyways I'll play around with a bit too to see if I can figure that out. Seems like I might be using drag+ a bit more now that I know how it works.

jcg

Based on my experience I concluded that tapping the drag button skipped a fixed PERCENTAGE of the program, and as far as I can tell it is 1/30th...but I never checked it in detail.

Any idea why your guide never worked? Where are you located in the bay area?

The guide is very useful, with its on-screen info, as well as the ability to just push a button... :)

jcg

02-04-06, 08:26 PM

I'm over in the Dublin/Pleasanton area so I think it's just because I don't get the VHF signal for the channel that broadcasts the guide data. It showed up one day about 3 weeks ago which was extremely odd as I've never seen it since I got the 3410 a couple years ago (and then the next day it was gone). Anyways if you go back to the beginning pages of this huge thread I posted many times trying to debug it. I need a Channel master 4228 antenna plus 7777 preamp just to get the HD channels on UHF, but the antenna/preamp aren't VHF which is probably where the guide data comes from.

jcg

Based on my experience I concluded that tapping the drag button skipped a fixed PERCENTAGE of the program, and as far as I can tell it is 1/30th...but I never checked it in detail.

Any idea why your guide never worked? Where are you located in the bay area?

The guide is very useful, with its on-screen info, as well as the ability to just push a button... :)

Jan J

02-06-06, 10:09 AM

Jan J

02-06-06, 11:15 AM

Follow up...
DVR with V1.15 reported as follows:
SW MP1.15
HW 10.4
DB 4.15
Guide 7.1.20
251 4/6/2004

Same DVR with V1.17 reports:
SW MP1.17
HW 10.4
DB 4.15
Guide 7.1.20
3:22 PM Jul 23, 2004

I've reported to the 3 people that I've been dealing with......
Two have responded, One indicated that if there is any further information or firmware available, he'd make it available to me... (That's the main reason I upgraded!!!)

Jan J

02-06-06, 01:17 PM

I reported to the fellow that helped me get WB Logo #2 into the 3410 TV Guide...(Gemstar) about the Firmware upgrade I did today.....

Reported that since February of 2005 there has been 4 times where The 2nd WB Logo (That I directed to Ch 19 (9-1)in Chicago [WGN-DT, channel 19]) changes to Channel 9-0 [WGN SD] and causes the "NO SIGNAL" prompt in the 3410A (Fix: Channel Edit-- Disable CHannel 9 in HD OTA list, re-enable Channel 19 in HD OTA List)....

This reported to him.... If he chooses to pass it along to Gemstar... Good...
If not.... I've tried!!!!

Jan J

02-06-06, 05:58 PM

Got the Channel rundown, but no listings yet....
Gonna have to Re-Order & edit out the Channel Listings... Done
Logo's are going to have to be re-assigned... Done

Now just have to wait for TV Guide data.

jcg

02-06-06, 07:22 PM

I timed how far drag+ skips on shows I have recorded which have lenghts of 31, 61 & 72 minutes. The skip times were ~ 1, 2 & 2.5 minutes. So it looks like it is close to about 1/30th of the program. It does seem to incorporate some kind of smart skip at the end of the drag to figure out where to start, as just going back/forth on drag doesn't bring you to the exact same spot.

Adding the 5 minute buffer to the start + end of a 1 hour show does get you the sweet spot for skipping the typical 2-3 minute commercial blocks. One hit of the drag+ and then a couple smart skips and you're good to go, and this is much faster than my old way of just hitting smart skip many times.

jcg

Based on my experience I concluded that tapping the drag button skipped a fixed PERCENTAGE of the program, and as far as I can tell it is 1/30th...but I never checked it in detail.

wookatok

02-06-06, 10:56 PM

V1.17 Update!!!

I have Successfully upgraded the Firmeware in the LG-3410a to V1.17 !!
(V1.15 was installed prior to upgrade)

It does blow away all the stored recordings...
Forces you do re-init the box for Zipcode, etc.
I don't know (yet) if it resets the channel lineups in TV Guide.

At this point, I've just connected it back to the antenna's and cables....
Re-configured it to output DVI & Native,
Programmed in the Zipcode and Cable settings,
did an EZ-Scan....

Will post more after the TV Guide data is updated....

Jan

Jan, thanks for all your effort on the upgrade process. Just a couple of questions.

I recall sending my 3410a to the factory for the 1.5 upgrade and they were able to retain my recorded programs. I wonder if they swaped out the drive for the upgrade? Are there any options that will allow you to keep you recorded programs?

Thanks,

James

Jan J

02-06-06, 11:20 PM

I can't proove this... But I believe on the first power cycle after the firmware upgrade, the HDD graphic showed less available space than it did after I did the 'Factory Mode Init'.

However, since I was following the upgrade instructions on my one and only unit, I think you'd understand if I didn't decide to try a different procedure to "See what happens"...

I went into this figuring that it probably would erase everything... and it did.

I doubt that the firmware is stored on the hard drive.... Probably in Large Gate Arrays..

I'm just happy it was as easy as it turned out to be!!

Upgrading the firmware was easy... Doing the 'Factory Mode Init' was more difficult than the firmware loading....

I think I gave you the 'revised' file of the steps....

Jan J

02-07-06, 08:33 AM

~20 hours since V1.17 (7AM Tues). Data received to Thurs 12 Midnight. Recordings scheduled. So far, so good!
3:30P CDST Edit

Wife says "no problems" with the DVR.....
Back in 'full service'

snapper

02-07-06, 07:24 PM

Jan J

02-07-06, 08:01 PM

I wish the SD recordings didn't have a Luminance/Chrominance timing error.....
I'm hoping that V1.17 will have less bugs than V1.15..... Jury (My Wife) will inform me as she comes across the bugs....

We've found by turning off chanels you will never record in TV Guide, that there are less Guide related issues....
(Less data being received, probably). You can still receive them, but if you will never record "The Weather Channel" or TV GUIDE off Cable (or about 40 others), why tax the system with all that un-necessary data?
For the same reason, We move all the channels we want to the top of the list, and all the "turned off" chanels are at the bottom, where we never browse..
We have no problems with an Outside Antenna & Analog Cable co-existing in TV Guide.
The OTA HD channels are duplicated on the TV GUIDE, and all you have to do is Edit them and put new channel info in them to point them to the outside antenna.
For example: Local CBS HD gets edited from 183-3 (or whatever..) to 2-1.
Local SD on channel 5 OTA can be editing with another of same network logo as 5-0.
I noticed a bunch of "Games" in the list.... Would be interesting to see if they can be edited to SD (5-0) or HD (5-1) channels and used that way.... Don't know how TV guide would react to that....

(Here's an example of a good idea that didn't work!!!)
I have an Idea!!!! I noticed again last night when we editing the channel list that there was NO Oxygen Logo for the wife... Not sure if TV Guide is downloading based on Logo or Channel ID.... I'll take the 'Games6' Logo and program Oxygen channel number (67)in it... and see what happens tomorrow!!! If it comes up with a game name, NG. If it comes up with Oxygen programming -- Another work-around!!

(Always pushing the envelope!)

VideoGrabber

02-08-06, 04:31 AM

Josh, thanks for the response, and sorry I got distracted from getting back to this.

joshMV4 responded to my query:
> it streams all channels (i.e...3-1 and 3-2 and 3-3) into one large file. I then use 3rd party software to extract the sub-channel I want. Perhaps there is some setting for this on your D-VHS deck? <

Unfortunately, no such setting. I'm sure the deck is recording the fully muxed stream, but sorry to say, it can't even play back one of them properly (to the screen), without breaking up. And there's no way to select just one for playback. However, I suspect you are correct that I could go to all the trouble to dump from the tape to a PC, demux it, then dump back to tape again. In other words, there's simply no point in recording directly to the JVC deck via firewire from the live LST-3410A tuner!

> If you export using "D-VHS out" from a pre-recorded program in the program list, does it record correctly to the D-VHS deck? <

Yes, that part works perfectly. In fact, the DVR has already selected a single stream to record in the first place (not surprisingly).

There are a few situations where the current implementation of the 3410's live tuner output via firewire (all streams merged) could be useful... e.g., by recording 102 direct to a PC, I could get BOTH ABC and NBC at the same time, avoiding conflicts and need for multiple tuners. But beyond that, the current approach is a huge amount of grief, and very limiting. I'm still looking for a workaround.

- Tim

Jan J

02-08-06, 09:08 AM

This morning checked to see if my "Games6" logo could be used as Oxygen for TV Guide...
Still remembers the channel I programmed, but NO, Doesn't call up TG Guide for Oxygen, it calls it up for a Hockey game... Darn!!

If anyone knows how to fool the 3410A into using one Icon for another channel for TV Guide, holler.... If not, it appears that she'll just have to do a VCR+ recording...... Since it won't work for TV Guide (That I can figure out!) If anyone has other information, holler!!

In other news, I just received an firmware upgrade instruction sheet in English from another person.... and another copy of V1.17 firmware...

JohnS-MI

02-08-06, 09:23 AM

A few questions for anyone who knows about the functionality of the 3410A:

1) I gather that the firmware can be updated on this unit. Is it a downloadable do-it-yourself type of update or does it require sending it in for service?

2) I gather that the hard drive can be replaced/updated on this unit. Is this a do-it-yourself job? What are the recommended replacement drive specs?

3) While recording, can a different channel be watched?

4) What are the limitations/quirks of recording SD/HD with this unit?

And a few more questions for 3410A users:

5) Would you recommend the 3410A to someone (myself) who is looking for a STB/DVR that seamlessly integrates OTA digital channels with analog cable channels into one list? How would you rate its performance as a tuner?

6) What don't you like about your 3410A?

1) I think we all believed it had to be sent for service, Now, it looks like Jan J has figured out how a user can do it. I don't know if he needed special equipment.

2) Hard drive can be replaced. Look thru last few pages of thread for recommendations.

3) No, that's a big shortcoming

4) I've only recorded HD. No real quirks in recording, but TVGOS issues abound and can "hang" the unit requiring unplug/replug reboot.

5)I don't have cable. No opinion. It's a pretty good OTA recorder.

6) TVGOS issues, tendency to freeze up, can't watch one/record another.

When I got it, I was regretting the purchase for a few days. The tips here have helped me, and it is working pretty good. You HAVE to know where your TVGOS data comes from, (cable or OTA), have that channel received well, have the unit off most of the day to TVGOS (so it might be a poor tuner for an hd-ready tv vs one with its own tuner.) My TVGOS comes from my analog PBS station and I orient my antenna for that at night when I turn the tv off -- it's worked well since I started doing that. If you have cable, all TVGOS info comes from a cable station, and you have a different set of issues.

Wading through the thread is quite an exercise, but I recommend it before you buy. When it works, it works well, but it has some issues.

Bill Shenefelt

02-10-06, 07:22 AM

I have two 3410A's. Both were version SN 451-xxx. One had a problem in which the unit froze picture and all. Only unplugging could even turn off the unit. Replugging after even a day or two doid not fix the problem. I have sent the unit back to LG for repair(Exchange only ) I remember a problem posted on the forum about upgrade of prior firmware(pre 451 sn units. Even with the 451 firmware there were still problems. Been looking back thru the 115 pages of postings here, but I see some recent postings about 1.17 firmware. Is this what is in the 451 unit or a more recent firmware? Has LG solved the pre 451 upgrade deficiencies?

edit4ever

02-10-06, 09:21 AM

wookatok

02-10-06, 10:27 AM

OK, here's a new one for me... My 3410a turned on to record Lost on Wednesday... I was watching a different program on a different tv - but I looked at the unit to make sure that it had turned on and that it showed recording. It seemed to be recording until the end of the program and then turned off. When I went to watch the program yesterday - it only had 5 minutes recorded. Why would it have stayed on through the whole program but not continue to record?? I use Comcast cable and two days ago I did notice that our ABC HD station was "switching" to the WB (89-1 & 89-2) ... could it be that there is bleeding between the two signals and that caused the record to stop?? BTW I have never had a problem with my TV Guide data.

I had a similar problem with Comcast cable and the Fox (134-1) and WB (134-2). I just happened to be watching the program while it was recording on Fox (134-1), and for some unknown reason the program switched to WB even though the display showed the 134-1 (Fox station).

This has only happened with these two sub-channels, there is no "bleeding" between other statios on adjacent sub-channels.

Since this happened, I decided to only use the OTA HD stations for recording Fox programs.

I have a 451 series with V1.15 firmware.

-James

chasieb

02-10-06, 06:23 PM

test

VideoGrabber

02-11-06, 06:04 AM

A few days ago, I wrote:
> There are a few situations where the current implementation of the 3410's live tuner output via firewire (all streams merged) could be useful... e.g., by recording 102 direct to a PC, I could get BOTH ABC and NBC at the same time, avoiding conflicts and need for multiple tuners. But beyond that, the current approach is a huge amount of grief, and very limiting. I'm still looking for a workaround. <

Well, I managed to find the workaround, by experimentation. Maybe it's even in the manual :), but since I never got a hardcopy, I haven't searched my PDF yet.

If you just select a live channel on the LST-3410A, all the muxed channels on that carrier will be sent out over firewire, and the one that gets monitored live on e.g., a connected D-VHS deck may not be the one you want. Also, clean playback of recordings made this way won't be possible (especially if the full 39.8 MBit/sec capacity of the channel is being used, which exceeds the 28.2 MBit/sec maximum for D-VHS).

The solution is simply to press the 1394 button and bring up a control panel, where you can select the record button, and then _only_ the single subchannel currently being displayed will be sent out via FW to the D-VHS deck and recorded. Voila!

That leaves just one issue to be resolved... even though the 3410 supports the ability to select any recorded program and dump it directly via FW to a D-VHS deck (which works well, and fully controls the deck), you'd think there would also be a way while simply playing one of the recorded programs to monitor it on the FW output (and potentially record portions of it), or a display connected via FW. However, apparently even while playing back over all the normal outputs, the FW output continues to stream the muxed live tuner output.

Seems kinda strange, but I suppose it could be useful to allow you to watch a recorded program, while simultaneously tuned to a channel and streaming it out to a PC to record via FW (and with TSReader, you could select the individual subchannel you wanted to record). I'll have to continue to explore that one, unless someone here has already unravelled that mystery? There's a lot about this DVR that's not particularly intuitive.

Also, I've discovered that its ability to estimate the remaining available space can be off by as much as a factor of 2X, especially as it gets full. Rather odd to delete 92 minutes of recordings, and have it show only 59min of free space.

- Tim

joshMV4

02-11-06, 11:59 AM

OK, here's a new one for me... it only had 5 minutes recorded...BTW I have never had a problem with my TV Guide data.

I had a "sort of" similar problem. This might not have anything to do with what you are talking about. I attempted to record the superbowl [commercials] on ABC (I do not have any digital input of ABC...only analog). I was at a friends watching the game, so I wasn't home to babysit it. When I got home, I noticed that it only recorded two minutes total. I had half of my HDD empty, so I don't know why it quit. I rarely record anything analog with it....I have had multiple problems with guide recording, esp in the past 3 months, which is how I tried to record it. Recently, I started all of my recording by scheduling blocks of time, like you would on an old VCR.

Bill Shenefelt

02-11-06, 12:19 PM

The symbio is junk. Mine does the same thing sometimes. Fortunately I have a LG LST3410A for recordinng. That way I can use the symbio only if I want a second program. Notice that if you have two antennas attached only the one with the TV guide wil record. Even if you select the ant b source and channel it will start and quickly stop recording a blank. Real useful !

PhillyC

02-11-06, 03:30 PM

> If you export using "D-VHS out" from a pre-recorded program in the program list, does it record correctly to the D-VHS deck? <

Yes, that part works perfectly. In fact, the DVR has already selected a single stream to record in the first place (not surprisingly).

- Tim

Three different units failed to do this for me. That is, you could dump to D-VHS but playback had audio dropouts (optical AND analog) at irregular intervals of 1-10 seconds. There would usually be some video dropouts in conjunction with these. This was only with programs recorded from cable (Comcast Chicago). OTA worked OK. Further, it made no difference if you used 1394 Play or 1394 Dump.

There was no way to make a good D-VHS tape of a cable program from a recording on the 3410A HDD.

avnstf

02-11-06, 05:54 PM

Three different units failed to do this for me. That is, you could dump to D-VHS but playback had audio dropouts (optical AND analog) at irregular intervals of 1-10 seconds. There would usually be some video dropouts in conjunction with these. This was only with programs recorded from cable (Comcast Chicago). OTA worked OK. Further, it made no difference if you used 1394 Play or 1394 Dump.

There was no way to make a good D-VHS tape of a cable program from a recording on the 3410A HDD.

In using my unit, how well it did for digital-VHS recording depended on the digital quality of the program...in particular, if I tried to play back a digital recording from another source, what happened depended on the quality in a way that was hard to predict. And when I raised this issue in this forum it seems to me that somebody made a remark about inferior quality from cable HD...this was sometime last year, so I can't say where in this thread the issue came up...TOny

Dan Kolton

02-12-06, 10:33 AM

Quote)
I attempted to record the superbowl [commercials] on ABC (I do not have any digital input of ABC...only analog). I was at a friends watching the game, so I wasn't home to babysit it. When I got home, I noticed that it only recorded two minutes total........

Whenever I've experienced this problem, it seems to be the result of long enough lasting interference or other bad signal that the 3410 says "forget it" and stops recording.

Jan J

02-14-06, 07:37 PM

It just occurred to me that no-where in the document for upgrade does it directly mention the serial cable needed....

(Assumeing a D9 connector on the computer) -----

D9 Male to D9 Female serial cable...
Pin 2---------2
Pin 3---------3
Pin 5---------5 (5 is ground by the way)

I think you get the idea............

Digitude

02-15-06, 10:48 AM

The LST-3410A is fairly new to me so I'm still trying to assess its versitility (or lack of). Is it possible to watch a recorded program while recording another program? It looks like the "play" button is grayed out while the unit is recording. As a subset of this question- can a recording in progress be watched from the beginning (while recording continues). I've been using the time shift feature for the Olympics but I'm wondering if I can time shift remotely, in other words, set it up to start recording the Olympics at 4 PM but start watching it from the beginning at 5 PM when I get home. The time shift feature seems somewhat limited if one has to be present to push the button on the remote control. My Panasonic DVR will do all of the above. I thought that was the state-of-the-art when I bought the LG.

Bill Shenefelt

02-15-06, 11:08 AM

mstanl

02-15-06, 01:49 PM

You cannot record a new program during playback of a different stored program. You can pause the playback of an existing program being recorded and chase play it and after it is done recording. I think the maximum delay to continue is one hour though. Once recorded you can save it and edit it.

The maximum delay of timeshift is the size of you hard drive free space. I have paused a show for 3 hours for example.

Not sure you can start to watch a program that is being record to disk. Only way that I have been able to do that is by timeshift then move to different places. I also hit the edit button in timeshift so that it will save the show to disk, timeshift will only save the last half hour to disk by default.

Mike

Hyrax

02-15-06, 02:02 PM

The maximum delay of timeshift is the size of you hard drive free space. I have paused a show for 3 hours for example.

Not sure you can start to watch a program that is being record to disk....
Mike

You beat me to it...I've timeshifted 10 hours of stuff.

You cannot 'start to watch a program that is being recorded' if you want to start at the beginning. This is the only thing that I find to be a PITA with the 3410A. You cannot set up to record a football game in the Guide and then start timeshifting it at halftime. That is how I know you can use the entire free space on the hard drive to time shift. I started timeshifting around noon for for the Super Bowl, which finished a bit after 10 PM.

Rammitinski

02-15-06, 02:26 PM

JohnS-MI

02-15-06, 04:27 PM

You beat me to it...I've timeshifted 10 hours of stuff.

True, but you can't stop the recording or only the last 30 or 60 minutes (I'd have to look it up) is retained. As long as you continue to record, you can play, pause, FF, FR through the recorded material, and it is retained until you hist capacity limit. At the end, there is some way to save then stop recording, but I'd have to look up how.

chefklc

02-15-06, 04:52 PM

My Panasonic DVR will do all of the above. I thought that was the state-of-the-art when I bought the LG.

There were several attributes of the LG that were state of the art, but unfortunately some of the more basic functionality seems to have been shortchanged.

But, which Panasonic DVR records high def OTA and QAM? Or do you mean a Panny dvd recorder with hard drive? And how are you feeding it--via S-video? If so, that's so SD, in real world use my Panny E80, even fed down-rezzed HD (which I really liked for a while) was barely Series 2 Tivo "best" quality with a given cable source. Plus, it's not like the Panny dvd recorders didn't present their own guide data issues and incomprehensibly unintuitive software, editing and interface issues. Still, once you learned its quirks, the Panny dvd recorder was fine--a bit slow and inefficient to edit out commercials but in its day at least you could edit out commercials with one and not have to port everything over to your computer. Then your awareness changed once you got high def, at least mine did. In many respects the LG is similar--it's an old device now, has its quirks, but for some of us, the LG hasn't yet been surpassed.

If you wanted to archive or offload HD material years ago to D-VHS, if you had a Mac, appreciated VirtualDVHS and a functional firewire path, wanted OTA and QAM, valued a device which even a novice could easily swap the hard drive out of themselves as drive prices fell, and/or didn't want to deal with the vagaries of your cable company's STB selection, the LG was it--and for many of us, despite its age, recording HD on the LG still rocks quite well (if we keep our fingers crossed after we get used to the quirks of our particular unit) while we wait for the next great device or new combination of device and delivery system.

I think it's clear the LG is not for most people--in general terms it's not versatile, in fact, it's frustrating, rudimentary and finicky in too many respects and is supported very poorly by LG. Most of us have a strained but loyal relationship with our LG, we worship it like an aging diva. A Tivo it never was. But then there still isn't a cable-ready HD Tivo, is there? And the LG was never the better dollar value than whatever dual tuner HD dvr your cable company was renting for 10 bucks a month--unless you valued some of the things I just mentioned which are special about the LG.

My guess is for most of us, the LG is one device in an a range of recording, archiving and playback options--it's really not equipped to be the only device unless you have a very flexible schedule. You also have a Mac with EyeTV, a coupla of D-VHS decks, a second LG, rent that HD DVR from your cable company, etc. And just like you changed the way you watched TV years and years ago once you got your first ReplayTV or Tivo, you change the way you watch your HD with your LG.

Stanton

02-15-06, 05:57 PM

...you change the way you watch your HD with your LG.

Well put. All I ever wanted to do was time-shift to watch more HD, and my LG allows me to do just that. Assuming it holds up (and it's been 2 years already), I may never get rid of it even if I eventually get another HD DVR tied to a cable or satellite service. I still can't believe there's not like a dozen different brands/models of HD DVRs out by now.

edit4ever

02-16-06, 09:47 AM

Well - it happened again last night. Lost began recording and stopped after 2 minutes. The LG kept switching from ABC 89-1 to WB 89-2 which would crash the recording. I'm in the Denver area and I'm guessing Comcast has something wrong with their signal that the LG is getting confused by. I'm sure this is not happening with their own Motorola boxes or there would be a lot of complaints. Anyone have any thoughts about why the LG would do this??

Hyrax

02-16-06, 10:46 AM

The LG kept switching from ABC 89-1 to WB 89-2 which would crash the recording. I'm in the Denver area and I'm guessing Comcast has something wrong with their signal that the LG is getting confused by. I'm sure this is not happening with their own Motorola boxes or there would be a lot of complaints. Anyone have any thoughts about why the LG would do this??
I don't watch the networks from my cable company, but I do see what you've describe when I surf and stumble onto Comcast On Demand shows. Some nights I see there are 5 or 6 movies all broadcast on a sub channel of 103. Every 5 minutes or so, the movie will breakup and I'll be seing one of the other movies.

If I were paranoid, I'd guess it is something the cable company is doing on purpose to stop people from getting HD for free. They can claim that the main networks are not encrypted, but still make it impossible for you to watch them without their box.

Another possibility is that Comcast is just pushing out too much data on frequency 89 and the signal is out of spec. Their box was designed to deal with this very situation, whereas the 3410A is not.

If you can go OTA, you should be better off.

chefklc

02-16-06, 11:14 AM

Digitude

02-16-06, 02:20 PM

There were several attributes of the LG that were state of the art, but unfortunately some of the more basic functionality seems to have been shortchanged..Thanks to everyone for all the replies to my post. I'd be dissappointed if I hadn't paid less than half of its suggested retail. Bottom line- the LG does a lot of things that no other device can do. It just doesn't do them all very well. My biggest peeve... trying to skip commercials with "drag and drop". Who wrote that algorithm? Its all over the map. Hit the button and it randomly throws you somewhere, anywhere in the recorded program. Has anyone figured out a good way to skip commercials with this box? Other than practice, practice, practice with the FF?

avnstf

02-16-06, 04:38 PM

Thanks to everyone for all the replies to my post. I'd be dissappointed if I hadn't paid less than half of its suggested retail. Bottom line- the LG does a lot of things that no other device can do. It just doesn't do them all very well. My biggest peeve... trying to skip commercials with "drag and drop". Who wrote that algorithm? Its all over the map. Hit the button and it randomly throws you somewhere, anywhere in the recorded program. Has anyone figured out a good way to skip commercials with this box? Other than practice, practice, practice with the FF?

For an hour-long program, when I just tap drag and drop, it goes forward 2 minutes...If you hold it down, it just keeps going, which is what it's designed to do...are you talking about "smart skip", instead?...that's the one I find totally useless...

MorningHill

02-17-06, 01:50 AM

CC says they don't have any LG LST-3410a, but coming soon at 419.99. Are they clearing inventory or is LG pushing more production? Still don't see anything comparable.

edit4ever

02-17-06, 09:44 AM

edit4ever--I record Comcast QAM as well, and that's never happened for me with two subchannels that are right next to each other--ABC at 91-11 and CBS at 91-12. Sorry I can't be any help, my unit is a 451 running 1.15

You should temporarily delete the WB channel and see what happens to a subsequent ABC recording.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but I don't think you can delete subchannels... only the main channel number. I'm going to try recording off an antenna for the ABC station next week and see what happens.

chefklc

02-17-06, 11:18 AM

Using the Menu button on the remote, right, sorry, I should have said try re-mapping that one channel to something else within the TV Guide. Like I said, in my case I've never had this problem, but with my Comcast service, I had to find out and then re-map my 3410A to the QAM assignments--it didn't "find" them scanning on its own.

CC says they don't have any LG LST-3410a, but coming soon at 419.99. Are they clearing inventory or is LG pushing more production?

I never saw an actual unit in a CC B&M, only in BB--and I picked mine up open box at a BB. But that was in the fall of 2004, when they were first put on clearance. CC has had the 3410A on its website for a few months, since those rumors floated that LG was producing more units after all. I don't think we've had a report of anyone actually buying one from them.

Jan J

02-17-06, 02:43 PM

Bill, if you'll check up a few pages, you'll see the information I received as to what V1.17 fixes compared to V1.15.

Your request wasn't in that list.... My suggestion is call them back and hound them for the feature you want, and if you can talk your way to a supervisor, see if he can get you information on version information..... and post it here for us all!!!

I can't get the 3410a away from the wife to try firewire connections, and since I have neither a Mac or a DVHS, from what I've gathered from other sites, It's a uphill road to connect to a Window's platform...

I'd love for someone to develope a way of archiving to and from the 3410A to a Windows platform computer... I'd really be interested in that!!!

And if there are any software developers here, I'd also like to convert .avi files to something that can be imported to the 3410a, as well as export 3410a files to .avi.

Rammitinski

02-17-06, 03:34 PM

Using the Menu button on the remote, right, sorry, I should have said try re-mapping that one channel to something else within the TV Guide. Like I said, in my case I've never had this problem, but with my Comcast service, I had to find out and then re-map my 3410A to the QAM assignments--it didn't "find" them scanning on its own.

I never saw an actual unit in a CC B&M, only in BB--and I picked mine up open box at a BB. But that was in the fall of 2004, when they were first put on clearance. CC has had the 3410A on its website for a few months, since those rumors floated that LG was producing more units after all. I don't think we've had a report of anyone actually buying one from them.I did actually read an article in Sound and Vision or some other HT mag a few months back that said that LG was extending production on the 3410a for another year. I haven't heard or read anything else since.

avnstf

02-17-06, 03:58 PM

Using the Menu button on the remote, right, sorry, I should have said try re-mapping that one channel to something else within the TV Guide. Like I said, in my case I've never had this problem, but with my Comcast service, I had to find out and then re-map my 3410A to the QAM assignments--it didn't "find" them scanning on its own.

I never saw an actual unit in a CC B&M, only in BB--and I picked mine up open box at a BB. But that was in the fall of 2004, when they were first put on clearance. CC has had the 3410A on its website for a few months, since those rumors floated that LG was producing more units after all. I don't think we've had a report of anyone actually buying one from them.

I bought a 3410a early last year at CC...they stocked them most of the year, then stopped at some point...

As for comparable unit, there are the Sony HDD250 and 500...

jcg

02-18-06, 04:32 PM

Read back a few pages as I had some posts regarding smart skip vs drag+/-. Basically drag skips forwards/back about 1/30 of the amount a time recorded. I did a couple test on hour long shows I recorded which come out at 72 minutes as I pad front and back. The drag+ works out to about 2 1/2 minutes of skip which is perfect since most commercial blocks are 3 minutes long. So a single click on drag and then a couple clicks on smart skip and your right back to the show. For 30 minute shows the drag+ is about 1 minute so you need to hit it a couple times and then use smart skip to finish getting to the show.

I also have ReplayTV which has the standard 30 second skip which I still find better but I've gotten used to the 3410 version and it's not as good, but definately functional. I guess the only real issue with drag+ is if you record shows longer than 1 hr since for a 2 hr recording drag+ will probably move forward about 5 minutes which is definatly longer than most commercial breaks.

jcg

Thanks to everyone for all the replies to my post. I'd be dissappointed if I hadn't paid less than half of its suggested retail. Bottom line- the LG does a lot of things that no other device can do. It just doesn't do them all very well. My biggest peeve... trying to skip commercials with "drag and drop". Who wrote that algorithm? Its all over the map. Hit the button and it randomly throws you somewhere, anywhere in the recorded program. Has anyone figured out a good way to skip commercials with this box? Other than practice, practice, practice with the FF?

Digitude

02-19-06, 08:54 AM

I guess the only real issue with drag+ is if you record shows longer than 1 hr since for a 2 hr recording drag+ will probably move forward about 5 minutes which is definatly longer than most commercial breaks.

jcgThanks. That explains a lot. I have been time shifting the Olympics and couldn't figure out why, as I got to the end of a three hour broadcast, the drag a drop would move a minute or two into the next segment of competition. I'd be waiting for the top competitors to run in the final stages of an event, hit the drag and drop after a commercial only to find the race over with skiers standing at the bottom of the hill. Very frustrating.

jcg

02-19-06, 11:28 AM

You could work around the issue by doing 3 seperate 1 hour manual records. At least that way it's easy to use drag+ to skip commercials. With a 2 hour or 3 hour recording I think smart skip or FF are your only options.

jcg

Thanks. That explains a lot. I have been time shifting the Olympics and couldn't figure out why, as I got to the end of a three hour broadcast, the drag a drop would move a minute or two into the next segment of competition. I'd be waiting for the top competitors to run in the final stages of an event, hit the drag and drop after a commercial only to find the race over with skiers standing at the bottom of the hill. Very frustrating.

VideoGrabber

02-19-06, 11:27 PM

Last week, I thought I had a good solution to using the LST-3410a's tuner for live recording to a D-VHS deck. I wrote:
> The solution is simply to press the 1394 button and bring up a control panel, where you can select the record button, and then _only_ the single subchannel currently being displayed will be sent out via FW to the D-VHS deck and recorded. Voila! <

...and this has been working fine on all channels, whether OTA (antenna), or cable (QAM256 or QAM64) except 3-1 (via antenna, obviously). As usual, I had selected 3-1 on the LST, pulled up the 1394 menu, and picked Record. The D-VHS deck went into record properly, but when I flipped over to monitor the output from the deck, the screen image was frozen!

After repeating this malfunction a few times, I started unplugging and replugging, and eventually was able to get it to stop locking up on that channel, but for reasons I still don't understand, when I select 3-1 on the LST (and am viewing 3-1 from the LST out), the firewire stream being sent to the deck from the tuner is the SD feed for 3-2!

What's strange about this is that the other antenna channels (8, 17, 41, 35) work fine using this method, as do the cable channels (8, 13, 17, 41, 52) and all their subchannels. 3-1 is the only one that fails.

Any clues on this anomaly? As it is, I have to make sure I have empty space on the HDD, and record 3-1 to disk first, then CopyToDVHS afterwards. Live to tape isn't an option.

- Tim

Digitude

02-20-06, 03:59 PM

You could work around the issue by doing 3 seperate 1 hour manual records. At least that way it's easy to use drag+ to skip commercials. With a 2 hour or 3 hour recording I think smart skip or FF are your only options.

jcgI haven't figured out how to work that. During time shift, if you hit the stop button, it seems to save that portion temporarily to the HDD (or cache?). If you start timeshift again though it begins anew and what the machine just "saved" goes away. I could schedule three seperate recordings but then I couldn't really timeshift...in other words I'd have to fininsh recording them all before I could start watching. Thats not really what I'm after. I want to delay the start of the Olympics for an hour or so and then skip all the commercials. This (and the 04 Summer games) have become the commerciOlympics . The sports coverage and advertising have reached nearly a 50/50 split. It's unwatchable in real time.

Stanton

02-20-06, 04:19 PM

The sports coverage and advertising have reached nearly a 50/50 split. It's unwatchable in real time.

While I feel your pain, sporting/live events are the only things I'm willing to sit through commercials on. Yes, I know the Olympics are time-shifted by the network (due to the time difference), but I purposely don't listen to who won and who didn't, so it has the same effect as watching a ball game. I can justify time-shifting everything but sports; otherwise, where's the excitement?

avnstf

02-20-06, 05:34 PM

I haven't figured out how to work that. During time shift, if you hit the stop button, it seems to save that portion temporarily to the HDD (or cache?). If you start timeshift again though it begins anew and what the machine just "saved" goes away. I could schedule three seperate recordings but then I couldn't really timeshift...in other words I'd have to fininsh recording them all before I could start watching. Thats not really what I'm after. I want to delay the start of the Olympics for an hour or so and then skip all the commercials. This (and the 04 Summer games) have become the commerciOlympics . The sports coverage and advertising have reached nearly a 50/50 split. It's unwatchable in real time.

I agree entirely with your not being willing to watch all the commercials and schlock that make up half the Olympic broadcasts...the beauty of timeshift is that you skip right through it.

Just don't hit STOP!!! If you want to stop watching and let part of the program's period pass so that you can later begin watching, and then fast forward through the junk, either:

1) just let it run, then come back and use fast backward to go backwards to where you were, then hit play...(this is what I usually do. Right now, I'm letting the program run, and I'll check now and then to see when the women's gold medal hockey game is on, then I'll backtrack to the beginning)

OR

2) hit PAUSE before leaving, then when you return, hit play, and you can fast forward through the junk, etc. (Actually, I'm not sure that I've done it this way, but it MUST work).

good luck - Tony

Jan J

02-20-06, 06:10 PM

I was talking to a fellow today, and he said that his company had some 3410a's in stock....

I'm not connected to this company, I'm just passing information.....

his email:: Sales@josephelectronics.com

JohnS-MI

02-20-06, 10:18 PM

OR

2) hit PAUSE before leaving, then when you return, hit play, and you can fast forward through the junk, etc. (Actually, I'm not sure that I've done it this way, but it MUST work).

good luck - Tony

#2 works fine. I do it all the time. Just make sure you use pause and not stop.

mstanl

02-21-06, 01:40 PM

Just don't hit STOP!!! If you want to stop watching and let part of the program's period pass so that you can later begin watching, and then fast forward through the junk, either:

hit PAUSE before leaving, then when you return, hit play, and you can fast forward through the junk, etc. (Actually, I'm not sure that I've done it this way, but it MUST work).

I hit the pause and then the edit button and if you hit the stop by mistake later it will prompt you before it stops, this is a safty method I use, it has stopped me from lossing the program many times.

Mike

locomo

02-21-06, 02:37 PM

ebo

02-21-06, 08:01 PM

I tried searching but couldn't find the answer. Can you display, through component, the firewire output of another device? I have a Mits D-VHS with firewire, and no component. Will the LG display an HD tape playing on the Mits?
ThanksI too have a Mits D-VHS. Can't check it right now, but the LG plays the Mits fine using DVI, so I'm sure it would work with component. Use the LG to control the Mits.

locomo

02-21-06, 08:17 PM

Thanks.
I was thinking of getting a Samsung SIR-T165, but since it's only OTA and no hard drive, I think I'll get the LG.

avnstf

02-21-06, 08:49 PM

Thanks.
I was thinking of getting a Samsung SIR-T165, but since it's only OTA and no hard drive, I think I'll get the LG.

Where would you even get the 165? It's long gone...in fact, where would you get the 3410a?

veets

02-21-06, 09:12 PM

Where would you even get the 165? It's long gone...in fact, where would you get the 3410a?

There is a refurbished 3410 with 1.17 firmware on eBay now. Search for item number 5869558821. You won't find it searching for 3410A since the listing is for a 3410-A. (Note: I am neither a seller nor bidder in this auction. I already own one that I'm quite happy with.)

wilsonsoohoo

02-21-06, 11:11 PM

I just got my B&H Photo catalog yesterday. It lists the 3410a. I bought one from them last year and it was a 451 version.

Someone in Sacramento is selling a T165 on Craigslist . . .

MIT also sells a tuner with firewire out.

locomo

02-22-06, 01:17 AM

Quote:
Where would you even get the 165? It's long gone...in fact, where would you get the 3410a?

Like the man says, ebay.
There are also some LG's supposedly left in Nashville.
I'm debating on whether to drive the 200 miles over there.

Jan J

02-22-06, 11:19 AM

This is for "Advanced Users" in the Chicagoland area.......

All communications for this will be done via Private Message...

Send me a Private Message indicating the channel you are getting your Guide Data from.

If you don't know what channel you are getting your Guide Data from, don't respond.

Once I receive data, and it matches information that I'm chasing... I will pass along more information...

Again, all responses for this will be via Private Messages... (There is a reason)

Digitude

02-22-06, 02:31 PM

#2 works fine. I do it all the time. Just make sure you use pause and not stop.Yeah but now we've digressed from the original topic of discussion....how to effectively skip commercials. Hitting pause and letting the timeshift continue for three or four hours then seems to lengthen the drag and drop interval. For a four hour time shifted program that would be an 8 minute commercial skip. That's unsat. The drag and drop and smart skip are just too smart for their own good. I'd rather have a simple one minute skip button.

UncD2000

02-22-06, 02:56 PM

Of four DVRs I've tried, the Moto/Comcast 6412 does best with commercial skip. You program the 30-sec skip to one key and a macro of that to another. I use a 3-min and the 30-sec to zap commercials. The backup ability of the 6412 when you overshoot is also awesome. I like my 3410A, but the 6412 (which has a few issues of its own) runs rings around the LG. A lot happened in the year that separates the introduction dates of these two DVRs. Dual tuners and complete random access to the HDD make all the difference.

Jan J

02-24-06, 02:48 PM

A page or so back I posted the location in Chicagoland that still has LG3410a's...

Jan J

02-25-06, 12:02 AM

Next time anyone in Chicagoland Area has a problem with TV Guide, please enter the diagnostics and on page 0 look for "Host Channel".

Send me an PM with the host channel information, as well as your TV Guide Firmware version, please.

Thanks much!!!

UncD2000

02-25-06, 09:13 AM

Each of six different 3410A's that I had over a 15-month period (4 2003 351- models, 2 2004 451- models, FW 1.12, 1.15, 1.17) exhibited the same problems: difficulty downloading guide, guide absent for extended periods, "Invalid channel" message, very slow channel change, several varieties of lockup. I was using the 2-sec unplug several times a day, changing Zipcodes, entering 100102, etc.

Suddenly in early December my Host Channel changed to WTTW (PBS) and the problems just vanished on both of my surviving units. There has not been the slightest glitch in nearly 3 months, and guide function has been flawless. This backs up my longtime theory that corrupted data from the Host Channel confuses the 3410A, and none of the various FW updates has had the slightest effect on that built-in flaw.

Jan J

02-25-06, 09:22 AM

Wanted to keep this offline, but oh well...
Check your TV Guide firmware version...

If what I was told this week is correct, your TV Guide firmware version should be V8.X
If you are using channel 11 (0xB), as I was told that CH11 is transmitting 'advanced' TV Guide data (V8.x), and CH 7 & CH 32 is transmitting "Legacy" TV Guide data (V7.x)

ddingle

02-25-06, 09:24 AM

One of our clients has a reasonably new 3410 connected to a 42" HD Panasonic Plasma. He replaced a 4200(?) LG HD tuner with it. It has been working fine,but recently the picture has been going black with " DVI blocked" on the screen. Only on HDTV signals.This lasts for thirty seconds and then goes away. He has another system in the house with a 4200 which does not exhibit this problem.
We have been having our share of HDCP issues(on other products) lately,so I am wondering if the 3410 using an HDCP handshake? Or any insight into this problem would be appreciated. Thanks Dallas

UncD2000

02-25-06, 09:37 AM

If you are using channel 11 (0xB), as I was told that CH11 is transmitting 'advanced' TV Guide data (V8.x), and CH 7 & CH 32 is transmitting "Legacy" TV Guide data (V7.x)This fits right in. Evidently a "fix" for the vast majority of 3410A glitches was available, but it had to be implemented at the transmitting end rather than within the receiver. LG could have saved the expense of all those fruitless swapouts If they had known this about 18 months ago.

Ironically, now that V8.x enables 3410A's to operate as originally intended, technology has pretty much passed them by, and 2-tuner DVR's with random HDD access are today's standard.

Dan Kolton

02-25-06, 10:31 AM

mdputnam

02-25-06, 11:46 AM

I do know how to read hex, but my listed host channel makes no sense to me. It's listed as 0xB07 (without the B it might make sense). I'm not using cable, but even cable numbers don't go that high. Can someone please decifer this for me.

Dan,
For the hex challenged (like myself) if you have a PC click on the start button, select program files, then accessories and calculator. On the calculator select View --> scientific. With that little tool you can convert between hex and dec easily.

jcg

02-25-06, 11:53 AM

If you are timeshifting and have more than 1 hour you can always hit record and then skip forward 1 hour, and save that portion to disk. Do this 4 times (for your 4 hours of timeshifted material) then you can watch it in 1 hr chucks and drag+ will give you the 2 minute skip. I agree a 1 minute or 30 sec skip would have been optimum, but this workaround is the next best thing. Most shows I timeshift of record are 1 hour, so for me the drag+ works great.

jcg

Yeah but now we've digressed from the original topic of discussion....how to effectively skip commercials. Hitting pause and letting the timeshift continue for three or four hours then seems to lengthen the drag and drop interval. For a four hour time shifted program that would be an 8 minute commercial skip. That's unsat. The drag and drop and smart skip are just too smart for their own good. I'd rather have a simple one minute skip button.