LG LST-3410A Review and Discussion [Text View] - Page 17

mdputnam

08-23-06, 12:23 PM

ebo

08-23-06, 02:30 PM

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but last night I observed what I think is a new behavior. I use OTA exclusively with a monster high gain narrow beam antenna on a tower, when I punched in 50-1 on the 3410A it said "channel not available" OK, thats happened before so I went into the channel edit menu to set up channel 48 as station 50-1 (about 120 miles away) and it was a no-go I put the cursor on 48 and could not change it to 50-1! I then moved the antenna to point precisely at the station and bingo 50-1 magically appeared associated with 48, I clicked "add" and thought everything was fine, however still in channel edit mode with the cursor over 48 if I pointed the antenna in the opposite direction 48 got associated with channel 48-1 (an independent channel 100 miles away), pointing the antenna away from both stations and nothing was filed in in the box and I couldn't associate the 48 with any channel number. Didn't we use to be able to select a channel and manually punch in the digital station number? Or, do I just need to adjust the level of my medication?
Not being a doctor I can't advise you on your medication, but I've never been able to assign a virtual channel to an RF channel and wouldn't expect to. The LG does that automatically for OTA stations if they are broadcasting proper PSIP information. It does not do that translation for cable, showing the RF cable channel even if the cable company is supplying its own PSIP.

I don't have a rotor or marginal reception, so my OTA stations are always there. Occasionally a station's PSIP gets dropped or farkled, and in those cases the LG may forget the translation. I can tune the station by RF channel, and if the PSIP is restored by then the LG will immediately display the virtual channel.

You're probably confusing this with the ability to assign any guide listing to any channel, analog or digital. Usually used where you have only an analog listing but you want to tune to its digital counterpart.

mdputnam

08-24-06, 12:20 PM

Ok, sounds like I just need a whole new prescription. ;)

wlellis

08-26-06, 09:09 PM

I live in an apartment complex which is only served by ATT/DirecTV using, in my opinion, a very basic DirecTV box. Fortunately, I can get a nice selection of HD signals OTA, so the basic DirecTV isn't too big an issue. I'm trying to find some way to have the DirecTV box connected to the 3410A so that I can schedule timed recordings from it. I have it connected with both AV1 and "Cable In", and can see the signal on both inputs. However, none of the Cable Box codes sent through the IR connection don't control the DirecTV box. Unfortunately, with it connected that way, and telling the TVGuide that I have a cable connection, TVGuide wants to get my TV schedules from the "cable" input. I've tried both saying "cable box" and "no cable box" but it doesn't make any difference. The "cable in" connection only seems to be active if I pick one of those two choices. If I tell TVGuide "no cable" it gets the listings just fine, from either channel 11 or 28. But then I can't schedule any timer recordings because (a) AV1 isn't supported and (b) without saying I have cable connected, selecting channel 3 (the output of the DirecTV box) just shows the NTSC off my "antenna" connection.

ebo

08-27-06, 12:45 AM

wlellis

08-27-06, 01:04 AM

wlellis:
You've just described one of the more annoying shortcomings of this box: its inability to do timer recordings from the AV inputs unless AV1 is defined as the input from a supported cable box. I think some people have had limited success using a separate controller that can be programmed with the codes for the LG and the satellite receiver. At the proper time the controller would send codes to the receiver to turn on (avoid on/off toggle codes) and change to the desired channel, and to the LG to turn on, select the AV1 input and go into record. Appropriate codes at the end to stop. You couldn't use the LG's guide for that (but could for OTA records) and the file listing wouldn't have a name, although you could edit that later if it's important to you.
That confirms what I had concluded, unfortunately. The only other option I've toyed with is, since several days of listings are downloaded in advance, to set the TVGuide for "cable" so that the channel 3 option is activated, set up my timed recording using the VCR+ commands, then the next day set it back to "no cable" so the listings get updated again. How do you spell "hokey"?

Jan J

08-27-06, 11:05 AM

I approached this from a different direction, and it cost a bit of money to do it this way, but I've found it works fine...

On my Comcast system I've a HD Box (Motorola). I've wired the HD YUV outputs to the HD Display. FORTUNEATELY, the Composite and SVideo outputs are also active, and are Downconverted from HD if an HD channel is selected.

Based on this one fact, here's how I got around the A/V input limitation!!!! :D!

I take the SVideo and audio to a Channel 3/4 (Switchable) modulator. This modulates whatever the box is set to onto channel 4 here.

The incoming cable feed is split in 2 directions:
One feeds the Comcast Box.
The other feeds a Channel 4 inserter -- This one: http://www.hometech.com/video/combiner.html

Channel 4 is a TV Guide here, so it is blocked out, and the local channel 4 is inserted in it's place. The resulting Cable + Local Channel 4 signal is amplified and distrubuted with a broadband Amp.

The resultant RF feed is distributed throughout the house. This way, HBO (or Any other channel you select on the cable box) can be recorded via VCR+ on the 3410a or any VHS deck in the house.

Now Here's the beautiful part. On the Motorola Cable box (Without a DVR) you can still go in a set and program channel change and power cycle... Let's say at 2AM you want to record HBO HD (Downconverted in box, modulated on CH4 onto the house cable system).
You go into the BOx TV Guide, select the channel and time, right click and do a timed recording as if it was a DVR (BUT IT ISN'T!!) and then exit!
Let's also say at 5AM you want to record something else off cable box. Program that in as a timed event also. At that point you can either turn box off, or leave it on, it doesn't matter!!!
At the appropriate time, Cable box will turn itself on (if necessary) and switch to the appropiated channel if needed. It will do same thing for next programmed event as well!!!

After programming the box (or just leaving it to channel selected if only one recording).. Go to 3410a and program a VCR+ Event for the time you need, on channel 4.
DONE!!! :D!

We leave channel 186 (HBO HD) on at all times here, and on ANY TV in the house, we can view HBO HD (Down-converted via the Cable Box) on channel 4, on ANY TV in the house -- at any time!!!

We've had this working flawlessly since about a month after Comcast Removed HBO from Analog Cable..... And we only have ONE HD Cablebox!!

wlellis

08-27-06, 11:18 AM

Fascinating, Jan - as luck would have it, my DirecTV box does put out a continuous channel 3 signal, so it sounds like the inserter device you describe might do the job for me! Only potential problem I would anticipate would be if the combiner box can't handle the frequency of the OTA signal. But for under $50 it's worth a try - thanks again.

Jan J

08-27-06, 04:45 PM

When you get the inserter, make these changes to it... Remove the outside cover, and using some solder wick, or coax braid, solder the 3 "F" Chassis connector shields together.
This will improve the overall grounding, as the construction of the unit relies on the outer cover to provide the ground plane, and the "F" connectors are just pressed into the cover.

Also, leave all level adjustment pots at maximum signal level, and antenuate as necessary with fixed pads on the input.

The Channel Notch is limited to about 25 Db, which isn't sufficient. I placed a 20Db & 6DB pad in series with cable input, which effectively made the Channel 4 notch ~ 52Db. This of course reduced the output, but that's why I put an amp at output. The Channel 4 picture is absolutely beautiful, with very minimal interferrance on CH3, and no interferrance with CH 5.

kaku47

08-27-06, 04:58 PM

My 3410a had worked perfectly for several months. Recently though, the guide and VCR+ buttons sometimes don't work. I push them and nothing happens. Doing Menu/DVR/TV Guide doesn't work either, just returning me to my program. Turning the unit off and then back on again doesn't help. But, leaving it unplugged for 10 minutes solves the problem - at least for maybe a day. I wouldn't mind living with this workaround, except that I'm missing scheduled timer recordings. i.e. The unit doesn't turn on for the recording, I turn it on manually and find I can't get to the guide. Does this sound like a hardware problem, maybe the TV guide daughter board starting to go? Or has anyone had and fixed this problem doing a hard reset etc. Thanks for any ideas on this.

Stanton

08-28-06, 05:23 PM

This really does sound like a software (as in Guide issues) and not a hardware problem. Usually a power cycle works, but you may want to try leaving it unplugged overnight. You might also want to try a "guide reset" procedure; you can search this thread for the code (and the screen you enter it on).

kaku47

08-29-06, 12:48 PM

Thanks, Stanton. I entered the 753159852 guide reset code last night as you suggested, and the guide button is still working today, which is a good sign! I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Stanton

08-30-06, 11:17 AM

Excellent! You should see the guide LIGHT go off sometime during the evening (like prime time) and come back on in the morning as well. For me that's usually confirmation that things are "A-OK". I went through my bi-yearly guide screw-up about a month ago, and I'm seeing normal behavior now (and a populated guide).

kaku47

08-30-06, 12:27 PM

Stanton, the guide button continues to function after performing the reset you suggested. It's beginning to look like this was just a periodic software maintenance issue rather than a hardware failure. Thanks VERY much for your help with this!!

MrHifi

09-02-06, 07:30 AM

Yesterday, one of my 3410's died. I have no lights at all. Nothing, Nada, Gone....Dead!!!!!!!!!! Have any of you come back from such a situation? How should I proceed, if you were able to resurect it?

Jan J

09-02-06, 08:42 AM

Sounds like a fuse..
Here's a suggestion: Get a meter from Radio Shack if you don't already have one. Make sure the meter can measure diodes as well as normal voltage/resistance readings...

Unplug DVR from AC. Examine the power supply board, looking for Swollen or leaky electrolytics. If you have leaky or swollen caps, you'll want to replace them.
Look for burned spots on board or components. Let's assume you see nothing un-usual.
Measure the fuse, it will be labeled F101. It should measure low resistance. If open, (High resistance across it) and no swollen components, then look more carfully at the fuse. Is the wire inside of the fuse just broken, and not touching, or was it a "Violent" blow, and shiny metal particles are on the inside of the glass container?
If the fuse just opened, you might try (ONCE) replacing the fuse, stepping back and see if the unit will work. Fuses will occasionally open due to surge, and the fuse then protects the electronics. That is the best senerio we're looking at.

IF you have swollen or leaky caps, and fuse is bad, but not violently blown, you need to have the caps replaced, period. You still don't know if anything else was blown in the power supply, but in order to continue you need to replace caps (and fuse), and 'try again'.

IF you have a Violent Fuse blow, that's the tipoff that something bad has happened. probably in the switching supply itself. Looking at the schematic, I don't see a "Kickstarter" cap, as some switching supplies have... So that is one other simple solution you don't have.

Do an exam (With power cord disconnected) and tell me what you see.... OK?

the_tom

09-02-06, 10:39 AM

Anyone ever figure out a way to get the recordings off the HD and onto a PC (without dumping to DVHS)?

One way you "can't" do it is by removing the drive and connecting it to a PC. I spent a fair amount of time looking into this about a year ago, using a series of little programs I wrote to access the disk in raw mode on Win2K.

One thing I did was to use two disks, the second a byte-for-byte copy of the first, put the second back in the 3410, record a single 1-minute program, take it back out, then do a byte-for-byte compare of the whole disk, saving all sectors with any differences into a file on the PC. From this kind of thing I could eventually follow the disk layout well enough to locate program data (the 3410 uses a non-standard partition stamp layout that looks like a corrupted disk to Windows, and a hacked-up version of a FAT32 file system with really big blocks). The transport stream headers are plain to see if you are used to looking at them (I was then, but it's been a while). So the "obvious" thing was to extract the program data into a PC file, call it a transport stream, and try to play it. But it would not play - and TSReader could make no sense of the stream.

So then I tried simultaneous recording of the same program (an HD channel that the cable op gets OTA, so it was not originally encrypted on the cable) on the 3410, and on my PC over firewire from the cable box, and on a JVC 30K DVHS. I was able to line up all three sets of data using the transport stream headers. The a/v data contents were the same, byte for byte and packet for packet, between the PC and DVHS versions, but the 3410 version was completely different data inside the TS packets. By comparing in detail and studying up a bit on crypto tech I was able to conclude to my own satisfaction that the 3410 is in fact encrypting all the content data on the disk, with a 128-bit block chaining cipher applied on a per-packet basis; something like AES/Rijndael. At that point (i.e. once I was convinced it was [I]encrypted and not just encoded somehow) I stopped working on it.

I will not engage in any discussion that has anything to do with cracking the crypto - I don't know how to, I haven't tried to, I don't intend to, and I won't help anybody that wants to. BUT IMO LG have neither any obligation nor any right to encrypt this material, which they do not own and which their device recieves IN THE CLEAR over the cable! I wrote to them to say so and asked them to give me the info needed to decrypt the data, but they never wrote back.

I did note that in principle one could have written a backup/restore utility that could save the program info and the encrypted transport stream off of a 3410 disk, and then restore it later. (I don't know if it could then playback on a different unit.) But there was a lot that was still murky to me about their file system even after grimbling with it in binary form for days and days, and I had firewire to PC recording going anyway, so I just didn't see it as worthwhile - I guessed it would be a 300 to 500 hour project, and the results would always be vulnerable to sudden total loss, being tied to a closed, discontinued, single box.

Jan J

09-02-06, 12:11 PM

Art.... You have mail!!!

Leg One

09-04-06, 02:07 PM

One way you "can't" do it is by removing the drive and connecting it to a PC. I spent a fair amount of time looking into this about a year ago, using a series of little programs I wrote to access the disk in raw mode on Win2K.....

Hi the_tim,
Very nice work!

I have not taken the unit apart to the extent you have. It was apparent to me that this was not a MS based machine so data storage on the hard drive was not going to be readable by a PC.

LG's choice (theirs or Hollywood) to manipulate the data stream certainly makes it hard for everyone. This is just another example of digital rights management. In this case, no one gets hurt because the content does not belong to us.

The rub though is when this DRM creeps into the other technologies and screws us up! Like simple home movie authoring which enables copy protection preventing us from making multiple disks.

Sincerely,
Martin

Jan J

09-04-06, 06:26 PM

Yeah, but if ever someone cracks this, there is a market for it!!!

I'd love to be able to take an .avi and put it on this unit for playback elsewhere!
And, of course export off this unit there, too!

JRTrautschold

09-08-06, 10:31 PM

Yeah, but if ever someone cracks this, there is a market for it!!!

I'd love to be able to take an .avi and put it on this unit for playback elsewhere!
And, of course export off this unit there, too!

I was under the impression that they just recorded the ATSC stream. How they format the drive is a different issue, but assuming it's some sort of common format, I'd think that any codec that can decode a 310 stream should be able to read the data on the drive.

Hyrax

09-08-06, 11:13 PM

Earlier it was mentioned that this is a linux box, so I assume that the disks are formatted accordingly. I'd not be at all surprised if the drive could be read by an ordinary linux PC.

ebo

09-11-06, 12:54 AM

Earlier it was mentioned that this is a linux box, so I assume that the disks are formatted accordingly. I'd not be at all surprised if the drive could be read by an ordinary linux PC.Where did it say that? I searched this thread for "linux" and found several references, but none said this is a Linux box. The closest to that was one that said an earlier one under the Zenith label was. OTOH, there were posts that the drive wasn't readable under Linux, Mac or Windows. Don't think anyone has tried OS/2 (HPFS) or (horrors!) CP/M.

wookatok

09-11-06, 03:29 PM

the_tom

09-13-06, 01:35 PM

I was under the impression that they just recorded the ATSC stream. ...

No, they encrypt it as they store it on the disk. See my post from a few days back for details on how I determined this.

badbobbyt

09-14-06, 01:33 AM

Mr Hifi -- I lost my guide data. I only get lines on the screen (similar to color bars), and I can't seem to remove it. I've done a full reset, but the real problem is it retains the area code and broadcast type (cable, OTA). I want to somehow reset the zip and/or the broadcast type so that I can run an EZ Search. When I try to run an EZ Search, it tells me to 1st set the zip. Please help.

I'm in DC, and I think Comcast sent some bad info through the guide in July.

Rammitinski

09-14-06, 02:23 AM

the_tom

09-14-06, 09:21 AM

... there were posts that the drive wasn't readable under Linux, Mac or Windows. ...

I've seen posts to that effect. For Windows, at least, the statement is not strictly correct. If you take the drive out and put it in a Windows PC, Windows recognizes the device (you can see it in the disk manager), but the partition stamp is invalid and none of the windows file systems are able to work with it. So it remains just a device, you can't see it in your Windows Explorer or anything else that depends on file systems. However, software that is written to open a device can read and write the drive, using basically the same windows function calls that are used to open, read, and write files, the only trick is that the name of the "file" passed in on the "open" is a device name not a file name. Here's a little C code snippet from a read-only open function call:

HANDLE hDevice = CreateFile("\\\\.\\PhysicalDrive2", GENERIC_READ, ...);

As I (partly) said before, I spent weeks writing a series of little windows command line programs to dump data from this device into a windows file, compare, restore, etc. and ultimately found that the data on the 3410 disk are encrypted. Here is an illustration. First, a single transport stream packet (TS-188) from a HD program captured on the 3410, archived to a DVHS deck, then tranferred from the DVHS to a PC over firewire:

0000:00BC 47 40 22 11 00 00 01 E0 00 00 85 80 05 2B AD 1B
0000:00CC B3 D9 00 00 01 00 01 DF FF FB B8 00 00 01 B5 85
0000:00DC 35 33 94 00 00 00 01 B2 47 41 39 34 03 54 00 FA
0000:00EC 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00
0000:00FC 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00
0000:010C FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA
0000:011C 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FA 00 00 FF 00 00 01 01
0000:012C 42 77 37 80 ED 72 85 24 EB B9 10 1E AE 2F 2F DE
0000:013C 2B D6 AD AA 8C 06 5C A2 9A BB 9D DD 0E A5 02 88
0000:014C F7 43 88 B6 B3 6B AC 69 6A A4 0C 87 18 91 87 D0
0000:015C FA 53 0C 38 96 9C 1D 43 88 44 81 AB 43 AE B8 82
0000:016C 96 A7 55 AF 51 5D 66 10 10 AE 94 EC

After a lot of poking around in the binary data that I extracted from the 3410 disk I was able to locate the 3410's stored version of the same program and locate the exact same TS packet (actually I had hundreds of MBs from multiple programs); here is that exact same packet as stored on the 3410's disk:

0000:00BC 47 40 22 11 00 00 01 E0 00 00 85 80 73 A6 57 6A
0000:00CC 3B E0 1B 60 EA 84 D0 28 27 5F C6 80 A0 68 10 63
0000:00DC 30 69 39 E2 13 31 28 1D CC F0 08 15 36 16 A8 2D
0000:00EC A5 52 4B 22 CD BA 47 31 0E B5 18 6E A9 A8 4B 76
0000:00FC EA 63 DF 98 0A AE 2B 7F FA 3A 2F 9B E1 5B DC D4
0000:010C 0E 18 DD 66 24 9D 68 F9 77 0B 15 58 F0 1A 4A D7
0000:011C D5 DE 3F DE E6 01 DC FE 3B 21 8D 3A F6 6A F0 66
0000:012C F0 F1 ED 2D 38 24 6A 75 74 C9 17 DE 94 93 C3 AE
0000:013C 91 35 11 3D D3 7E D0 08 AB 23 38 E9 22 BC C3 B2
0000:014C E3 2E C5 7F E2 FD 11 99 A4 52 E1 31 F7 83 07 55
0000:015C A4 AF 21 FB 60 71 62 E5 2E 41 90 85 47 18 1B 45
0000:016C 67 4C 2F EA 80 5E C6 04 AD 57 A8 2B

in which you will note the first 12 bytes are the same but the rest is garbled. One may note that encryption algorithms like AES/Rijndael operate on 128-bit (16 byte) blocks; a TS188 packet can be broken into 11 of these with 12 bytes "left over"; and happily they left the beginning of the packet, with the packet header bytes, as the unencrypted part, making it easy to recognize that it is transport stream data and to line it up. After comparing a few million 16-byte before-and-after chunks programatically I concluded it was encrypted. At which point I stopped working on it - I did not and will not attempt to decrypt it.

Finally, understand that I didn't line the data up by any kind of random brute force search; I was able to follow the disk allocation map etc well enough to manually navigate and locate the data for a given program (the title and channel info, stuff you see in the Programs list on screen, is in a plain-text database).

Perhaps this will be enough detail to put the question to rest. It certainly did for me.

If we want to be able to extract program data from the 3410 disk for use anywhere else, other than by the tragically flawed, rarely successful "archive to DVHS" function, we need to prevail on LG to tell us how to decrypt the data. If they did, we could do so legally.

PS OS's need to be able share disks, so the partition stamp is standardized as to location and format. Since the 3410 puts "garbage" in the partition stamp location on the disk, I would expect that no OS's standard file systems are going to be able to work with it.

badbobbyt

09-14-06, 10:08 AM

Rammitinski -- I would do that, but I can NOT access the screen that allows me to change the zip code -- because it is CORRUPT. The lines prevent me from doing anything, so from what I can tell, I need to somehow remove or delete all guide data. I've already executed Select+Left and performed all relevant diagnostics including delete test data and reset to OTA.

dbburns

09-14-06, 01:26 PM

badbobbyt

09-14-06, 04:16 PM

Badbobby, I am in DC as well, and my guide has been sucky since mid-July, too. However, I am strictly using OTA, no cable, so the problem may not be Comcast's fault.

My unit worked flawlessly for two years (maybe even three, I can't remember exactly when I got it now, though I do remember it was an August). In July, I lost guide data. It corrected itself, or I got it working again somehow, though how I couldn't tell you. It worked OK up until about a week ago. I've tried leaving it unplugged overnight, entering the 753159852 code, I even upgraded the firmware to 1.17 yesterday evening. That wiped out all content on my hard drive. I entered my zip code and antenna options in set-up. I scanned for channels, and it found all the locals, but this morning, there is no guide, period. Not even a grid full of "no listings"; just no grid at all. The clock didn't even set itself overnight. I'm about ready to throw this piece of trash where it belongs and get the new Tivo. I just hate to give up free OTA HD recording, but I don't know what else to try.
dbburns -- Hello fellow Washingtonian. Three things:

1. I searched for the 753159852 code procedure, and I can't find it. Can you please walk me through it?

2. How did you upgrade the firmware? I am on version 1.12. Can you provide me 1.17? Feel free to email me directly at badbobbyt on yahoo.

3. It is junk. I agree. But I can't give up the OTA DVR yet. From what I've read, I think the guide should still be published over PBS.

We should get our money back from LG. Ironically, I also own a 44" LCD LG HDTV, and it sucks, too (purchased at the same time...nice use of 3K). Blue line at the bottom from overheating that I was told was my fault for placing too close to a wall. Hmmm...hello? Isn't this why you buy TV's with thin footprints?

LG should go out of business. It will if we all stop buying their products.

Stanton

09-14-06, 05:09 PM

I know its frustrating, but a firmware upgrade is not the problem with these boxes: it's the guide data itself (and the PBS channel that provides it). I'm still on the original (1.12) firmware with original (351) hardware, and nearly everytime my unit "loses it's mind", I'm fairly certain it's due to bad data (when multiple people in the same city have the same problem, it's not a coincidence). Sure, LG could have made it more robust, but you "get what you pay for" (e.g. the EPG data is FREE).
If you can verify that the unit is looking at the right channel and downloading data (e.g. the Guide light goes on/off), then eventually it should "lock on". You're on the right track with the diagnostics code, so do a search for my name in this thread and you should find some other "tricks" to help get the Guide going.
What I'm trying to say is risking firmware upgrades and resetting (wiping out) the whole unit is not necessary.

badbobbyt

09-14-06, 06:34 PM

I've been through nearly all 129 pages of this forum, applied all the tricks I read about, but nothing has worked. I'm having the same prolem spike4 described: the Guide will not come up at all. I bought my unit when it first came out and it worked flawlessly when I had it hooked up to my antenna. The Guide became flakey once I switched to Comcast. When the Guide becomes inaccessible, unplugging the unit for 2 hours usually makes it all better. Not this time. I tried several power cycles, pushed the unit back to factory reset via diagnostic menu, entered the 100102 code with EZ-Scan highlighted--I just cannot get the Guide to come back.

The factory reset was a mixed blessing. It left the HDD untouched and allowed me to set the clock (as long as I did it before power-off), but it also reverted my input to antenna. Without a functioning Guide I have no way to tell it to switch to cable input--let alone set the ZIP code, etc. I also ran the "Gemstar Test Mode" and "Demo Test". The former didn't seem to do anything but switch to channel 19--maybe that's the data channel it uses. The latter did successfully run the demo.

My versions are...
S/W: MP1.12
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
TV Guide: 0.0.0

Is the "0.0.0" a bad sign--like the Guide EEPROM is corrupt? I honestly don't know if there was a legitimate value there when I bought it. I'd rather not send the unit to LG (though that's what they recommended).

To be clear, this is not a case of "no listings" or "bad data" in the Guide. My Guide won't come up at all, so those neat Guide reset codes and diagnostic screens are not possible.

Please help! I want my Guide back! Spike4: did you ever figure this out?

dpr005 or Spike4 -- Did you ever get this to work? I can't get a clean guide up free of color bars. I just want to reset the zip. PLEASE HELP.

badbobbyt

09-14-06, 06:37 PM

I know its frustrating, but a firmware upgrade is not the problem with these boxes: it's the guide data itself (and the PBS channel that provides it). I'm still on the original (1.12)......

Stanton -- Thanks for the reply. I trust you have outlined it before, I just couldn't find where my problems were outlined exactly. Spike4 seems to have had the same issue.

MrHifi

09-16-06, 01:21 PM

Hello to the original owners of these wonderful machines. We all have been through a lot but in the end, things do work beutifully. Since I cleared all three of my LST-3410A's using the rest function in the service menu. My 3 machines have worked perfectly. 3 machines operating perfecly for over a month. My error, and it was mine, was deleing the local analog cable stations from the list of channels. I am on Annapolis cable and doing that made everyhing operate perfectly. So, if you ar having problems, try what I did.

I do have an isue that has plagued me since the beginning. I lose the last 2 minutes of every show. Is there a way to use the guide to select shows and lengthen the recording time? I know I can use the timer but that is so gauche.

One more issue.... If I select either Fox channel 132.3 or 134.1 on the Annapolis cable, it will jump to "The TUBE", 134.4, 132.4. This has been going on for over a month. My other tuner, a MyHD130 card can not pick up digital cable channels above 125 so I have not verified that it is unique to the 3410A.

wookatok

09-16-06, 05:41 PM

Hello Art,
I don't remember who posted the original LG Tips but here is what he said about extending the record time for a show.

Edit note: It was nealgrof who posted the LG Tips back in January.

7) Select button to extend scheduled recording for a show that is running late: The president was on, and "House" is already recording. Or you didn't realize that tonight's episode (already recording from a manual program) is two hours instead of one. Solution: Simply go into the recording schedule and scroll down to select the program. Press the "select" key, and you will get the "start program 00, end program 00" screen. Just arrow down to the end program line, type in the number of minutes you want to extend the recording time, and press select again. Disaster averted.

Good Luck,

-James

wookatok

09-18-06, 10:25 AM

One more issue.... If I select either Fox channel 132.3 or 134.1 on the Annapolis cable, it will jump to "The TUBE", 134.4, 132.4. This has been going on for over a month. My other tuner, a MyHD130 card can not pick up digital cable channels above 125 so I have not verified that it is unique to the 3410A.

Art, I'm haveing the same issue with 134.1 jumping to 134.4 (The Tube) on Comcast in Washington, DC. I also have a similar problem on the subchannels for 86-89.

If anyone has any suggestions please chime in.

-James

Rudy1

09-18-06, 10:39 AM

Art, I'm haveing the same issue with 134.1 jumping to 134.4 (The Tube) on Comcast in Washington, DC. I also have a similar problem on the subchannels for 86-89.

If anyone has any suggestions please chime in.

-James

This is a problem with the 3410A. Here in Fort Lauderdale, it happens with the stations (FOX & PBS) sharing the 85.X frequency on Comcast Cable. The tuner continuously jumps from channel to channel, making it impossible to watch any of them (PBS has 3 channels running while FOX has 2).

Hyrax

09-19-06, 10:23 AM

This is off topic, but I wonder if any of you have a BUD and can check the CBS feed for NFL games. I've recorded HD games from my OTA and cable CBS stations and this year they don't look so good. I'm wondering where the problem originates.

Last year the broadcast was rather good - I was always able to see sparkles in the metallic paint on the Patriots' helmets, but this year it is very hard to notice. The cable HD broadcast is often fuzzy and with frequent macro-blocking.

The amazing thing is that the OTA was just about the same. CBS locally does not use a sub-channel OTA , so there is no way it should be a low bandwidth issue. My assumption is that the Network feed is the problem. Therefore, it would be interesting if someone who has a BUD can check to see if the satellite signal is also bad.

BTW, here is what I'm talking about:

NashGuy

09-19-06, 12:02 PM

Anybody on this thread using the LST-3410A in the Nashville area? I'm wondering if others in Nashville are or aren't having problems with their TVGOS listings. I have a different DVR, the Sony DHG-HDD250, and the TV Guide system worked great on it until 2 or 3 weeks ago. It only seems to download listings for maybe 2 days a week now. I don't know if the problem is my unit or our local host station, WNPT Ch. 8 (PBS affiliate). I've called WNPT twice and the lady who answered the phone said she thought they'd been having problems with that and put me into the voice mail of someone who never called me back. If you live in Nashville, please post your experiences with TVGOS as of late. Thanks!

Rammitinski

09-19-06, 12:06 PM

NashGuy

09-19-06, 12:51 PM

The TVGOS system in the Sony is a generation newer than the one in the LG.

You'd probably be better off asking in the Sony thread.

Or maybe asking in your local area HD provider thread, too.

Thanks. I've posted the question in those threads as well, I'm just trying to cast my net as widely as possible! If there's something wrong with the TVGOS data being broadcast in Nashville, I would think it would affect all units that rely on it, regardless of brand or model. Maybe not, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Rammitinski

09-19-06, 01:28 PM

Not necessarily.

My 2 (Panny & Sony SD DVD/DVR) units that use the same generation guide as the LG use a different host channel than the Sony.

Of course, that may not be the case in your area.

Leg One

09-19-06, 09:07 PM

I do have an isue that has plagued me since the beginning. I lose the last 2 minutes of every show...

Hi MrHiFi,
Is your clock in the 3410a the correct time? Is the recorded time (elapsed) longer than the show?

In the old days of VCRs we (I) would move the clock ahead 2 minutes to correct the recorded show shortage problem. I believe the 3410a starts two minutes before the show begins normally. I typically set the clock and calendar by hand using a station clock (i.e. news). What ever the 3410a does after that I don't know. I never miss(ed) programs, beginning or end).

I am north of Chicago and only record OTA or use the tuner for general OTA TV viewing. The only time(s) the 3410a screwed up was when a recording that was programed was moved or cancelled by the network. Then the unit locks-up. Deletion of the program in question is necessary before you can resume use.

Second is a power glitch affecting the clock and calendar. Again the recordings that are programed must be deleted and the clock and calendar reset before you can resume use.
Both of these problems lead me to delete all programs or re-format the hard drive. At the time it was disappointing as I had saved some great broadcasts.

Another point: the Guide never populates correctly. In Chicago for example, we have three (3) channel 11s on digital (11.1, 11.2, 11.3). 11.2 and 11.3 never show in the Guide. Funny thing is that my other unit (HPz555) uses Zap2it for its Guide and the sub channels on digital are screwed up in a different way. They all have the same program listing as 11.1. Hmmm.

Sincerely,
Martin

Jan J

09-19-06, 09:54 PM

Rammitinski

09-20-06, 01:56 PM

Haven't you guys recently started getting a slot for "Create" (11.3) yet? My units with the L7 version of TVGOS are getting it. It will be all the way at the end of the "channel edit" listings, if it's in there, and you'll need to turn it "on".

I'm only set up for OTA, so it's possible that it only appears when you're set up that way.

Leg One

09-20-06, 09:25 PM

Hi Leg One... You can add 11.2 to the list if you want. I'm in Skokie, Illinois with 2 x 3410a's and I took an un-used PBS logo and edited it to become 11.2.
Works!

I've found that editing out un-needed channels will minimize problems.. For example, I have no intention of recording CNN, CLTV, Etc.... so turn them off

I've also re-directed cable Local HD channels to OTA, and it works fine! They used to overwrite the OTA back to cable, but when I contacted them and suggested 'maybe we edited it for a reason' they actually understood!!!!

Hi Jan J,
Thank you for all the stuff regarding this unit you have amassed.

Once the "11.2" channel is added does the Guide populate correctly? Must it have the logo? What about 11.3?

I too have approached the unit with a minimalist attitude by deleting all undesired or unwatched channels.

When the channels are overwritten by the user they have priority over the updated Guide? I am refering to the "OTA back to cable" comment.

Sincerely,
Leg One

Jan J

09-20-06, 09:31 PM

11.2 is all I tried.... But it was with an un-used PBS Logo...
I guess if I wanted to, I could re-program 11.0 to 11.3, but I haven't tried that.
I tried using an un-used HBO logo for Oxygen but it didn't work. Seems to need to follow the logo...

The reason why Logo's are as few as they are.... There's a finite about of logos in V7 TV Guide. I have heard that they actually get voted in and out....

POWERFUL

09-20-06, 11:34 PM

Speaking of encryption, is any of the video you dub onto DVHS then unreadable by anything other than the LST-3410A?

Rammitinski

09-21-06, 01:57 AM

Hi Jan J,
Thank you for all the stuff regarding this unit you have amassed.

Once the "11.2" channel is added does the Guide populate correctly? Must it have the logo? What about 11.3?

I too have approached the unit with a minimalist attitude by deleting all undesired or unwatched channels.

When the channels are overwritten by the user they have priority over the updated Guide? I am refering to the "OTA back to cable" comment.

Sincerely,
Leg OneDid you even bother reading the post before yours? (post # 4048)

Rammitinski

09-21-06, 02:00 AM

Jan J

09-21-06, 10:50 AM

Here's an interesting tidbit I just learned.

If you live in a city where there is a primary and secondary TV Guide transmission stations,
You Can, with some effort, force a TV Guide system to lock to the secondary transmission.

If you don't know what the secondary transmission channel is, don't continue with this....

Hook up a VCR to an OTA antenna.
Tune to the channel that is the Secondary TV Guide channel and hook the RF output of that VCR to the unit you want to lock to secondary channel, disconnecting the cable feed..
Issue a full TV Guide Reset to the unit in question, forcing it scan and download data, but tell the unit you have cable (if you do).
Let it download data.... Once data is downloaded, during a time that the unit is NOT receiving TV Guide data, Re-connect the origional RF Cable(s), and the unit will remain locked to the secondary TV Guide transmitter!!!

Once I can pry the 2nd unit away from the wife for a few days, I'll do this, so I'll have one unit downloading data from primary, and one from secondary transmitter.... And report back here, but I have this from very good authority that this is possible....

Leg One

09-21-06, 03:18 PM

Did you even bother reading the post before yours? (post # 4048)

Hi Rammitinski:
As a matter of fact I have read every thread in this forum! Also all other threads I subscribe to.

Being summer (still) I watch little TV and have not used the 3410a for several weeks. Unless the Guide people can flash the machines firmware I doubt the "create" feature will be available on my machine.

I will give it a look see.

Sincerely,
Leg One

Hyrax

09-21-06, 03:47 PM

Speaking of encryption, is any of the video you dub onto DVHS then unreadable by anything other than the LST-3410A?

Odd question - are you referring to the Copy Once flag? There is no encryption on anything you get OTA. I do not think there is any encryption on any clear QAM stations either. This copy once stuff only comes into play on shows you cannot record at all on the 3410A, I believe.

You can play the DVHS tape and watch it in HiDef via component (or HDMI in the case of the newer JVC decks). You can copy the DVHS tape to a PC/Mac via firewire. You can connect your DVHS deck to some RPTVs via firewire and watch the video that way.

Leg One

09-21-06, 10:43 PM

Hi Leg One... You can add 11.2 to the list if you want. I'm in Skokie, Illinois with 2 x 3410a's and I took an un-used PBS logo and edited it to become 11.2.
Works!

Hi Jan J,
I looked at the 3410a tonight and I cannot find the "create" function rammitinski discussed several messages ago. This must be a new firmware addition or newer Guide feature.

I can change an existing Guide listing to a different channel number (i.e. 11.2). I can also change the logo in one of the setup screens. Unfortunately the Guide channel listing still shows the previous channel station identification.

This must determine what the machine downloads during Guide refreshing. Naturally this is for the other channel not the one I want (i.e. 11.2).

So, is it worth while to put in new firmware? Will it solve the Guide sub-channel errors. Then will the Guide populate all channels properly?

Sincerely,
Leg One

Rammitinski

09-22-06, 01:44 AM

Hi Jan J,
I looked at the 3410a tonight and I cannot find the "create" function rammitinski discussed several messages ago. This must be a new firmware addition or newer Guide feature.

I can change an existing Guide listing to a different channel number (i.e. 11.2). I can also change the logo in one of the setup screens. Unfortunately the Guide channel listing still shows the previous channel station identification.

This must determine what the machine downloads during Guide refreshing. Naturally this is for the other channel not the one I want (i.e. 11.2).

So, is it worth while to put in new firmware? Will it solve the Guide sub-channel errors. Then will the Guide populate all channels properly?

Sincerely,
Leg OneI neglected to mention that the logo for "Create" in the listings is "WTTWC". So that's what you'd have to look for. It was added a couple of months back. So was "The Tube" (9.2), which uses the logo "WGN-DT2", or something similar.

Also, the recorder I have that's getting this uses 20 analog as it's host channel, and it uses the L7 version of TVGOS, which I was led to believe is the same as the LG.

It's possible that it isn't included when you're using cable. I'm just OTA.

MrHifi

09-22-06, 08:37 AM

Both of my 3410A's jumping between subchannels has become so intolerable that I am unable to record Fox at all. This is a new problem (last 2 months) so something must have changed at the transmission points. BTW, OTA works fine. It only happens with the QAM tuner. I'm beginning t see a pettern with these early QAM tuners. My Sony TV has a third generation QAM tuner and it will not receive QAM256 channels.

Jan J

09-22-06, 09:28 AM

Note that this information is only good for Chicagoland. I have no idea where primary and secondary V7 TV Guide channels are elsewhere...... Jan

I’ve successfully changed one of my LG-3410a DVR’s to look at TV Guide data from WLS, which is the secondary data supplier, instead of WFLD,
Which is the primary data supplier.

I’ll be using two different procedures, and I’ll cover them here in detail, and just refer to them as TV Guide Diagnostics, and TV Guide Reset in the future.

---------------------------------
TV GUIDE DIAGNOSTICS—gets you 32 pages of data, and on Page one, is the Host Channel displayed in Hex (where data is received from) and for Chicago, is WFLD (0x0c if off cable, channel 12, or 0x20 if OTA, channel 32). To get to this data, go to TV Guide/Messages, hit enter to see local code, and type in the
Following: 753159852 and hit enter. Look on page one for Host Channel. Note that this will not loose any data, it’s totally benign.

TV GUIDE RESET—This will force a TV Guide Restart, drop the selected host channel, and you will lose all TV Guide Data, forcing it to download from square one. To get to this data, go to TV Guide/Messages, hit enter to see the local code, and type in the following: 653214741 and hit enter. In a few seconds TV Guide will blank, and start searching….
----------------------------------

To force TV Guide to WLS (secondary V7 data supplier), do the following in this order:
Disconnect OTA and Cable feeds. Connect OTA feed to a VHS Deck Set RF modulator for CH3/4 (4 in my case). Tune VHS to WLS channel 7. Feed RF output of VHS deck to LG3410a (In my case, I connected it to cable input, as cable input only was programmed to receive channel 4. Verify picture is ok.
At that point Do a TV Guide Reset (See above). Once the TV Guide blanks, exit TV Guide, then turn the LG3410a off. Leave off overnight.

The following morning, turn on the LG3410a, go into TV Guide and see if you have data. If you do, go into TV Guide Diagnostics (see above)
In my case I was expecting to see host channel as 0x04 (Channel 4). I didn’t…. I saw 0x53 !!! (????). I continued on anyway….
While the 3410a was still ‘ON’ I disconnected the VHS Deck and RF Cable feeding the 3410a, and re-connected the OTA and Cable feeds to the 3410a.
After verifying signal of both feeds, I shut the 3410a off for 10 minutes. 10 minutes later, I powered the 3410a back on, and did a TV Guide Diagnostics (see above), and lo and behold, the host channel reports as 0x07 !!!!

At this point, I will have one DVR on The Primary data feed, WFLD, and one on the Secondary data feed, WLS.

wilsonsoohoo

09-22-06, 11:51 AM

For what it's worth, I lost the program guide out here in the Sacramento area after nothing but good luck for a year and a half. I wonder if it had anything to do with the UPN-WB merger and the names of two stations changing. I got rid of a couple of logos, changed the zip code and turned the power off for a couple of minutes. We'll see what shows up tonight.

Jan J

09-22-06, 11:57 AM

Leg One

09-22-06, 07:06 PM

I neglected to mention that the logo for "Create" in the listings is "WTTWC". So that's what you'd have to look for. It was added a couple of months back. So was "The Tube" (9.2), which uses the logo "WGN-DT2", or something similar.

Hi Rammitinski,
I too am only using OTA.

I located the WTTWC and converted that to 11.2. I turned on WGNDT2 for the Tube so maybe the Guide will populate for that too (not sure what the info for music videos looks like). I also turned on 5.2, 7.2, 7.3, added 23.1, 50.1. These others are also not showing up in the Guide. I never noticed because I rarely record anything but 2.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, 20.1.

There may be others I missed but unless I step through the channels I can't see that they exist.

What do i do about WTTW 11.3? Convert WTTW 11 to 11.3? Logo and basic station identifier would be OK.

Hey, If the station that transmits the Guide is deleted how does the 3410a get the Guide? I have all analog channels deleted. in the menu setup screen. 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 20, 23, 32 and 50 are not turned "off" in the Guide though.

Sincerely,
Martin

Jan J

09-22-06, 07:11 PM

Doesn't matter what you delete... It looks anyhow (for TVG Data)

I doublechecked Saturday AM, and I'm still getting data from Host Channel 0x07
:)!

Rammitinski

09-23-06, 06:09 PM

Hi Rammitinski,
I too am only using OTA.

I located the WTTWC and converted that to 11.2. I turned on WGNDT2 for the Tube so maybe the Guide will populate for that too (not sure what the info for music videos looks like). I also turned on 5.2, 7.2, 7.3, added 23.1, 50.1. These others are also not showing up in the Guide. I never noticed because I rarely record anything but 2.1, 5.1, 7.1, 9.1, 11.1, 20.1.

There may be others I missed but unless I step through the channels I can't see that they exist.

What do i do about WTTW 11.3? Convert WTTW 11 to 11.3? Logo and basic station identifier would be OK.

Hey, If the station that transmits the Guide is deleted how does the 3410a get the Guide? I have all analog channels deleted. in the menu setup screen. 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 20, 23, 32 and 50 are not turned "off" in the Guide though.

Sincerely,
MartinDon't know if that was a typo, but you said you added 23.1. If that was meant for WWME, you'll have to punch in 26.2. Also, you said you put Create as 11.2 - it should be 11.3.

Actually, I think ALL of the OTA channels are covered, other than a couple of low-powered ones. Of course, some of them are only listed in analog (WWME,WCIU,WYCC, WPWR & WTTW's main channel, and a couple of the Spanish channels, if you're interested in them) - so you'll just have to change the analog channel number to the digital one (it sounds like you've already figured that out). The programming corresponds on those anyway. You should be getting the Pax digital channel & subchannels in the guide, too. All of those stations will populate with data - just be patient - it may take a day or two. The Tube doesn't really have specific info - just says "The Tube Music Network". The weather subchannels are not covered, though, so you can forget about even trying for 5.2 and 7.3 in the guide.

As far as WTTW, WTTW-DT should be 11.1, WTTW (main channel) should be 11.2 and Create should be entered in as 11.3. You just use the analog WTTW logo for 11.2 (not sure, but there may be a couple WTTW's there - I'm not sure if only one or both will get data, but you can turn them both on to make sure). I think they added WLS-DT2 on there, too (not positive, though). If so, that should be entered as 7.2.

the_tom

09-24-06, 11:41 AM

Speaking of encryption, is any of the video you dub onto DVHS then unreadable by anything other than the LST-3410A?

In some cases I was able to archive HD programs from my 3410 to my DVHS (JVC 30K) deck, then read the programs back on my WinXP PC over firewire using CapDVHS.

Sometimes the results were just a little short of satisfactory (due to video/audio glitches every couple of minutes, which I attribute to recording problems with my DVHS deck), sometimes they were completely unusable (due to massively, continuously garbled video, which I attribute to data rate overruns because the 3410 includes subchannels in its recordings when they are present in the feed and the resulting data stream exceeds the rate at which the DVHS accepts data, so it just drops huge chunks of it).

BTW, I am "sure" that the original (cable) feed did not have any CP flags on it on the channels I was recording.

I also had one recording that I dubbed to DVHS which would not play back as a video on the deck, but which the 3410 could read back; but that happened only once, and I don't really recall the circumstances.

Leg One

09-24-06, 12:53 PM

Don't know if that was a typo, but you said you added 23.1. If that was meant for WWME, you'll have to punch in 26.2. Also, you said you put Create as 11.2 - it should be 11.3.

Hi Rammitinski:
I do have 26.2 but I don't think it's WWME. I'll have to check.

I exchanged 1.2 & 11.3 to there respective positions (i.e. WTTWC 11.3). That did fix the Guide content. 11.3 appears to be OK also. The Tube is as you said "only The Tube Music Network" in the Guide data.

I also have duplicate channels @24.1 and 24.2. This looks like channel 50 out of Chicago. I'll have to check.

Is the problem here a lazy service provider? Meaning the people who maintain the Guide just won't put in all the channels and maintain the proper listing information?
Isn't the digital channel listing a one time deal? These have been assigned by the FCC. I can undestand perhaps not maintaining all the Guide data but, to many channels are missing. My comments are only directed at OTA.

Sincerely,
Leg one

POWERFUL

09-24-06, 04:49 PM

Great to hear as I have to backlog some prison break eps off the LG soon or my other show "The Unit" won't record. I know I need a hard drive upgrade but I don't want to void my warranty.

Rammitinski

09-25-06, 12:41 AM

Hi Rammitinski:
I do have 26.2 but I don't think it's WWME. I'll have to check.

I exchanged 1.2 & 11.3 to there respective positions (i.e. WTTWC 11.3). That did fix the Guide content. 11.3 appears to be OK also. The Tube is as you said "only The Tube Music Network" in the Guide data.

I also have duplicate channels @24.1 and 24.2. This looks like channel 50 out of Chicago. I'll have to check.

Is the problem here a lazy service provider? Meaning the people who maintain the Guide just won't put in all the channels and maintain the proper listing information?
Isn't the digital channel listing a one time deal? These have been assigned by the FCC. I can undestand perhaps not maintaining all the Guide data but, to many channels are missing. My comments are only directed at OTA.

Sincerely,
Leg one24.1 & 24.2 are WCGV-DT & The Tube, Milwaukee.

If you receive any Milwaukee channels, you might want to see if there are any in the listings and turn them on and see if they fill in.

Jan J

09-25-06, 02:31 PM

Great to hear as I have to backlog some prison break eps off the LG soon or my other show "The Unit" won't record. I know I need a hard drive upgrade but I don't want to void my warranty.
What warranty?

POWERFUL

09-25-06, 06:49 PM

I still have a parts (from the part and labor) warranty on the device with about a week left. Remember that if this is brought brand new it comes with a 1 year warranty.

Kipp Jones

09-27-06, 12:14 AM

I am selling my months old 3410a in the FS forum if anyone is interested. It is like new with limited use.

jeneral

09-27-06, 05:57 PM

JRTrautschold

09-27-06, 07:35 PM

My 3410a has been locking up for about 3 weeks now. I've tried restoring factory defaults, I've changed to a US Zipcode (I have access to Canadian or US listings) and back again. No matter what I do the TV Guide still keeps crashing. Last night, for example, I didn't even use the unit but I had timer set to record. At around midnight, I noticed the guide light wasn't on. I turned on the unit (the scheduled program had recorded) but after browsing the guide it promptly locked up. It has gotten to the point that I'm afraid to use the guide. Sometimes it will lock up right away while other times it happens after a few minutes of browsing. This unit was working flawlessly since early Feb. Of late, it rarely goes a day without the 2-second reset. On Sunday, I had to reset the receiver 3 times!!! Any suggestions?

Mine's been working fine here in the Chicago area for the past few weeks - in fact, ever since I did a factory reset on the unit. My only thought on this is that the primary TV Guide station in your area is having issues with their Gemstar encoder or the data that encoder is receiving. It's also possible the TV station is interfering with the vertical interval data somehow.

Anyone else having a problem in that area?

wookatok

09-28-06, 05:21 PM

Mine's been working fine here in the Chicago area for the past few weeks - in fact, ever since I did a factory reset on the unit. My only thought on this is that the primary TV Guide station in your area is having issues with their Gemstar encoder or the data that encoder is receiving. It's also possible the TV station is interfering with the vertical interval data somehow.

Anyone else having a problem in that area?

I'm in Washington, DC. Over the last week, I was having a problems with the guide not getting data. I reset using the setup section several times and nothing changed. It appears that the "bug" has finally worked it's way out of the next batch of guide data, and just this morning I finally got a full guide list.

I guess it's back to normal until the next batch of bad guide data.

-James

JRTrautschold

09-28-06, 07:39 PM

I'm in Washington, DC. Over the last week, I was having a problems with the guide not getting data. I reset using the setup section several times and nothing changed. It appears that the "bug" has finally worked it's way out of the next batch of guide data, and just this morning I finally got a full guide list.

I guess it's back to normal until the next batch of bad guide data.

-James

No doubt... As others have reported here over the years, Gemstar does seem to send out "bad data" every-so-often. Either that or something gets scrambled in the Norpak encoders used to encode and send the data in the vertical interval. It's too bad that the 3410 is so susceptible to bad data. I've heard that other boxes that use TV Guide data experience the same issues.

Jan J

09-29-06, 12:54 PM

Wife had both boxes do 3 back to back recordings last PM...

Box #1 (Gets data from Fox, but I don't think this caused problem) could not find HD channel on 3rd recording (5.1) "No Signal". I just happened to be in the room when it changed, and so I quickly stopped recording, went into channel edit, disabled the channel number for 5.1 and re-enabled it (34?), and pix returned.... Then smash recorded 5.1 for her.....

The 2nd 3410a did the 3 back to back recordings fine (gets it's data from ABC)

I've seen this before, (loss of channel that is there) and the fix has always been to go into channel edit (not TV Guide, Channel Edit) and disable then re-enable the channel that equates to the HD channel that was "forgotten".

Stanton

09-29-06, 02:32 PM

and want to give folks on this board (who will appreciate and care for the unit) first chance before I list it on eBay. Many here may recognize my name and know that I have an original hardware (351) original firmware (1.12) unit from the week they first came out. It's never required service, never had any "mods", and only requires the occasional power cycle to clear EPG "lock-ups". Obviously, I have the original box and manuals that came with the unit.

I'll consider any reasonable offers via PM.

JRTrautschold

09-29-06, 03:00 PM

Speaking of encryption, is any of the video you dub onto DVHS then unreadable by anything other than the LST-3410A?

Not that I'm aware of. I've dubbed a number of programs from the 3410 to my JVC DVHS machine and I'm able to play that material back through the 3410 or via the other outputs (non-firewire) directly to the TV.

JRTrautschold

09-29-06, 03:05 PM

Timmer1970

09-29-06, 05:41 PM

JRTrautschold

09-29-06, 08:44 PM

I am looking into adding to the capacity of my 3410a
I have found a refurbished:
Maxtor 300GB UDMA/133 5400RPM 2MB IDE Hard Drive
for $78

is there any problem using a "udma" device as opposed to the original "ata"?
"133" vs original "100"?

thanks

I can't answer your question specifically, but based on the specs of the drive, I'm not sure that it's adequate for the 3410. I'd think that a minimum 7200 RPM drive would be required. Those usually come with an A/V spec making them suitable for heavy duty recording and playback.

Someone else please jump in if you have better information on this drive than I do.

Jan J

09-29-06, 09:14 PM

No, a 5400 RPM drive is sufficient & correct... 7200 drive will do nothing but draw more current and create heat.... The question is correct as stated: "any problem using udma vs. ata?"

I'm thinking you should be fine, IF the drive will downshift to Non UDMA mode....

I'm looking in the Seagate flyer for the drive origionally spec'd for the 3410a...
And it says that the origional drive spec'd (ST3120025ACE) is compatible with UDMA-2, -3, -4 chipsets, as well as ATA.
Now looking at the The Maxtor Maxliine II 5A320J0 drive specsheet (I have this installed in one of my 3410a's) and the spec sheets of that drive iDOES NOT indicate it is compatable with UDMA busses....

So do a check on that drive's mfg site and see if the specsheets indicate drive will downshift to ATA 133, and if it does, you should be good to go!

P.S. the drive types made for dvr's were "quickview" drives, which locked out retry on media failure detect. This passed bad data, rather than retry to re-read, which would cause freezing of picture. I think only SATA quickview drives are now available....

Someone here years ago tried a sata/ide converter, and I think they were successful, but I don't know who it was......

chefklc

09-30-06, 08:50 AM

No, a 5400 RPM drive is sufficient & correct... 7200 drive will do nothing but draw more current and create heat....

except, Jan, haven't we had several reports of modern 7200 rpm drives working just fine in the LG? I think that's because, over time, manufacturers have gotten better at producing faster, quieter drives which draw less power AND run cooler. My own personal experience: I have 14 drives (different brands, PATA and SATA, 250GB or greater, all 7200, almost all purchased from zipzoomfly) at the moment in service around the house--just for audio and video media storage in external firewire enclosures and on hot swappable trays--and there are noticeable differences between them. Some are extremely efficient, quiet and cool even after sustained usage. Granted, years ago, 5400's were common in these type of media/dvr devices, but 7200's designed for media playback have been out for years, and used in hundreds of thousands of comparable devices, haven't they?

I guess my point is--with hard drive prices haven fallen so much, especially PATA drives which will soon be obsolete anyway, can anyone recall another user reporting a poor or disastrous experience swapping a 7200 rpm drive into their LG--because it always seemed to me that over-paying for a rare 5400 quickview, whose price seemed artificially propped up anyway, was more marketing deception rather than borne out in fact--in actual experience. Just how often was anyone reporting media failure detect lockouts with a non-5400-quickview replacement drive?

Leg One

09-30-06, 10:15 AM

...It's too bad that the 3410 is so susceptible to bad data. I've heard that other boxes that use TV Guide data experience the same issues.

Hi JRTrautshold,
This "Guide" problems as a whole are a dissappointment. My 3410a is working as good as it ever has since I made the changes Rammitinski recommended.

My HPz555 Media Center Computer pulls the Guide (Zap2it provider) from the internet. Guide downloading takes about 30 secs. The Guide does not populate the sub carrier channels (No Listing). I have looked on HPs site, Zap2it and Microsoft and the demon here seems to be Microsoft Media Center.

All I want is a dependable source for the Guide data to do "automatic recordings".

Tivo is more than great but, lifetime memberships are a thing of the past. They have a Series 3 DVR at about $799, which is alot of money. This one is capable of OTA without a Cable or Satellite subscription. I'm not going to pay ~$12.99 a month for a Guide!

Sincerely,
Martin

Jan J

09-30-06, 11:49 AM

SoNic67

09-30-06, 01:17 PM

Specs of the Segate drive for 3410a is:

+12V 2.3A startup
Combined Watts (Seek) 12.5W
Read/Write (40% Seeks) 12.0W
Idle 7.5W
Standby Typ .9W Max 1.05W
Power on and Standby to ready 10 seconds

The Maxtor drive meets or beats all of the above specs...

Except andurance... Maxtor use to be bad with that. Now they are owned by Seagate, so... maybe is better.
No, a 5400 RPM drive is sufficient & correct... 7200 drive will do nothing but draw more current and create heat.... The question is correct as stated: "any problem using udma vs. ata?"

I'm thinking you should be fine, IF the drive will downshift to Non UDMA mode....

I'm looking in the Seagate flyer for the drive origionally spec'd for the 3410a...
And it says that the origional drive spec'd (ST3120025ACE) is compatible with UDMA-2, -3, -4 chipsets, as well as ATA.
Now looking at the The Maxtor Maxliine II 5A320J0 drive specsheet (I have this installed in one of my 3410a's) and the spec sheets of that drive iDOES NOT indicate it is compatable with UDMA busses....

So do a check on that drive's mfg site and see if the specsheets indicate drive will downshift to ATA 133, and if it does, you should be good to go!

Someone here years ago tried a sata/ide converter, and I think they were successful, but I don't know who it was......

You are heavily confuzed about ATA133 and UDMA. ATA is a standard of connection, UDMA is a transfer mode. There is no difference in between ATA133 and UDMA since are 2 sides of the same coin. There is NO access at 133MB/s without UDMA. The other transfer mode is PIO mode and tops at 16MB/s... All of the modern ATA HDD's are accesed via UDMA mode. There is compatibility with PIO mode but who cares?
More about that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-ATA

Jan J

09-30-06, 02:37 PM

Thanks for clearing that up... It has always been a bit confusing....

I default to your info!

ebo

09-30-06, 04:45 PM

. . . haven't we had several reports of modern 7200 rpm drives working just fine in the LG?Well, here's one. I replaced the original drive in late 2004 with a Maxtor DiamondMax Plus 9 250GB 7200 RPM drive. It's still working well. I do see an occasional glitch on playback that is probably because the drive is not optimized for DVRs. It did run hot, so I wedged a fan into the space to the right of it (looking at it from the front). The fan blows directly across the drive and also keeps the air moving around the heat sinks on the power supply. The lid wouldn't fit with the fan in place so I left it off.

For the difference in price I can live with a few glitches.

wookatok

10-02-06, 12:03 PM

except, Jan, haven't we had several reports of modern 7200 rpm drives working just fine in the LG?

I repalced my original drive last March with a Seagate 300GB, 7200rpm drive(ST3300631A-RK), and added an internal fan. So far, I have had no problems with the drive.

-James

Timmer1970

10-02-06, 01:56 PM

wow!

thanks for all the responses on the replacement drive.
love to keep this thread active!
i am still looking at some specs for this drive (the maxtor 4A300J0) to ensure compatibilty.
thanks again,

Tim

wlellis

10-03-06, 08:46 PM

Rammitinski

10-04-06, 01:24 PM

I live in apartment complex which is "served" by an AT&T/DirecTV satellite/cable service. We can either subscribe using their cable box (which my LG DVR can't control) or to a direct feed from the wall outlet. The tech told me the direct feed is generated by a box someplace in the complex, which creates a pseudo-cable signal for people with Cable capable TVs (it gives a pretty pathetic quality signal, and mono-only, but I can get some cable channels at least). I learned to my delight the the LG box happily reads that signal as a real cable signal, and it is now using both my OTA antenna for HD programs, and the DirecTV pseudo cable signal for non-HD stuff. I don't get any OTA analog signal. The interesting thing is that I get a lot of my TV Guide information filled in regularly. But both the Host ID and Host Chan fields show a 0x0. I'm not complaining, just mildly curious where the data is coming from...Most likely through the OTA signal.

All 3 of my units with TVGOS can get the info for cable channels OTA. But apparently, the new Panasonic DVR/DVD recorders are able to get it through the Direct TV signal, also (according to some users in the DVD Recorders section).

Since your menu doesn't show which it is, the only way I can think of to find out for sure is to just hook up one or the other and see which one it keeps filling in under. Or a quicker way would be to just reset the guide first.

POWERFUL

10-04-06, 08:34 PM

I just upgraded my LG with a new Maxtor 5400RPM 300GB Quickview drive. It's working great and I'm loving that 32 HD hours of recording time. Thanks to all those that have helped me out in this thread.

mdputnam

10-04-06, 10:48 PM

Keep in mind that as you approach 64 30 minute sitcoms :eek: things start to get flakey during boot-up.

wilsonsoohoo

10-04-06, 11:01 PM

kirkvolk

10-05-06, 08:39 AM

I repalced my original drive last March with a Seagate 300GB, 7200rpm drive(ST3300631A-RK), and added an internal fan. So far, I have had no problems with the drive.

-James

When replacing the HDD is it necessary to make a copy of the drive that is being replaced (where is the embedded code)? Does the additional recording time appear once the unit is rebooted?

Stanton

10-05-06, 11:31 AM

When replacing the HDD is it necessary to make a copy of the drive that is being replaced (where is the embedded code)? Does the additional recording time appear once the unit is rebooted?

No and Yes: that's (one) of the beauties of this unit!

POWERFUL

10-05-06, 06:04 PM

Wow. I didn't know those were still available. Who was the vendor?
Ecost.

kirkvolk

10-07-06, 09:47 PM

No and Yes: that's (one) of the beauties of this unit!

Cool. Thanks. I'm going to assume the OS is the same in my 50PX4DR and I'm going to try the upgrade.

cow736

10-08-06, 09:32 PM

I've gone through the first 1-10 and last 127-137 thread sections... there's just too many and the search or filter function isn't the greatest.

I have three questions on the LG-3410A HD DVR unit.

1. If a scheduled recording has started can I start watching that show from the beginning or do I have to wait until its done recording the show?

2. Seems like the biggest drive that can be replaced is a 300GB has anyone done 400GB or 500GB drives?

3. Correct me if I'm wrong but this unit seems to be exactly like the Zenith HDR230 only that it supports drives greater than 137GB.. oh and this unit uses TVGOS... HDR230 uses EPG?

Any info or comments would be great!

Chris

chefklc

10-09-06, 09:36 AM

I have three questions on the LG-3410A HD DVR unit.

1. If a scheduled recording has started can I start watching that show from the beginning or do I have to wait until its done recording the show?

I never try to do this since I'm never trying to watch anything even remotely contemporaneously, but I think the closest the LG comes to this is if you hit 'timeshift' when a program starts--then you walk away--you can come back and hit 'skip -' or 'drag -' to go back to the beginning--and pick up watching from the beginning. For some reason, I don't think this works with an ongoing formally scheduled recording. Someone else should weigh in.

2. Seems like the biggest drive that can be replaced is a 300GB has anyone done 400GB or 500GB drives?

I don't think we've had a user report with that big a drive--two years ago was when this unit was receiving some serious attention, drives that big were just hitting the market and were very expensive. Even 300GB drives were still too pricy.

3. Correct me if I'm wrong but this unit seems to be exactly like the Zenith HDR230

I don't think the Zenith had DVI--a key difference--and while it did ATSC I may be mistaken but I don't think it did NTSC or QAM either. The real power of the 3410 lies with its 1) dual inputs (cable and antenna) and 2) three tuners--ATSC, NTSC and QAM, but 3) the fairly simple user-upgradable hard drive and 4) firewire were further icing on the cake for a subset of us home theater types. That total package--unavailable on any other unit--is why most of us have been more than willing to deal with glitchy software, terribly poor customer service from LG, problematic guide data and its lack of Tivo-like watching one program while you're recording another.

stjr

10-09-06, 12:16 PM

IMO, it is not worth installing any drive larger than ATA 300GB, because I do not find it safe to have more than 30 events recorded to one drive, and I usually max out on events before I max out on drive space with my 300GB drives.

Jan J

10-09-06, 02:45 PM

Using a 330Gb drive on one of ours, and never encountered any bootup irregularities that were mentioned...

chasieb

10-09-06, 08:12 PM

Hi, thanks to everyone for this great forum. I have had my 3410 for over a year now and it has preformed flawlessly until now. Never any problems with the TV Guide download or anything else. However just recently while watching a program picture has started to break up now and then and going completley black for a second or two and then resume skipping ahead a few seconds into the program. I think the hard drive is starting to go. I found a Maxtor Quickview Hard Drive - 250 Gb on Amazon that I will probably end up buying and installing. I also found a cooling fan at Radio Shack that fits perfectly in the back of the unit. It even looks like there are slots in the back panel where LG was orignally going to install a fan but didn't for whatever reason. My question, is it better to have the fan blowing out of the unit exhausting the hot air or into the unit and across the components? Thanks, Charles

sivartk

10-09-06, 10:30 PM

My question, is it better to have the fan blowing out of the unit exhausting the hot air or into the unit and across the components? Thanks, Charles

It's called an exhaust fan for a reason :p ...it should blow out of the unit.

Treat it just like a standard PC, cool air in the front (lower) and hot air out the rear (higher)

dicko2

10-10-06, 08:10 AM

CDW has some of the Seagate Consumer drives in stock.
http://www.cdw.com/shop/search/results.aspx?key=DB35+&sr=1&platform=all

dickm

alk3997

10-10-06, 02:24 PM

JohnS-MI

10-11-06, 11:40 AM

One suggestion...Make sure your break-up / black screen occurs from more than one source. Either through my antenna positioning or problems with the station (usually involving the MPEG2 encoder) that could also have been the signal going into the 3410a. Of course if you have cable, don't rule out the cable company.

Before spending money, it doesn't hurt to double-check.

Andy

Andy -- I think that's good advice, and have recently come to the same conclusion.

I was having a lot of trouble when recording one, watching another (my tv also has hd tuner), including a few times when the playback of a recorded program would stop with a hard drive error message. I have reformated several times.

However, I began to notice a pattern in the stations that had problems. Bottomline for me (YMMV) is that the local CBS affiliate records VERY robustly, other stations less so. so if the CBS program is one of the ones I want, I record it, and watch something else. NBC seems the most unrecordable. As I'm using an indoor Silver Sensor, that may be more reception than anything the station is doing. My only point is that I am now pretty convinced reception can influence apparent reliability of the HD, one problem can masquerade as the other.

My biggest reception problem is windy weather and "moving tree multipath."

mstanl

10-17-06, 05:09 AM

Please help if you can.

I have had my LG since it was first sold. I also have 2 of the Sony HDD500s.

First I'm in Houston, TX
I have the two sony that work fine and a Panny TV and that guide works
ok,

About 2 months the LG and only the LG stopped updating the TV guide,
I have unplug for 1 hour,
I have unplug for 1 day,
I have unplug for 1 week,

After each plug in It would receive the clock and set it correctly.
It does show guide at different times, I do not turn it on if it shows guide.

I did the TV guide reset code and no go.
The host ch is 8 that it is set to.

Also I only have OTA - no cable

Any help please
Mike

Jan J

10-17-06, 08:55 AM

I'd check out the threads for the TV Guide reset code. That will force it to restart.

Also check the threads for the box reset codes... That is a complete reset.

Hyrax

10-17-06, 01:42 PM

...
About 2 months ago it stopped updating the TV guide ...
After each plug in It would receive the clock and set it correctly.
...I did the TV guide reset code and no go.
Any help please
Mike

Mike -
Do you see the a guide with your channels, but no program listings? Or is there no guide data at all (a black screen with some text)? If it is the latter and you're using cable TV for your SD stations - I've a suggestion.
1) Change your configuration (in the Guide Setup Menu) telling it that you do not have cable TV.
2) Do a Quick Scan.
3) Delete all OTA channels from the Menu screen (not the Guide Screen).
4) Turn off.
5) Unplug for 2 seconds (no longer).
6) Configure it with cable TV in the Guide Setup Menu to use cable TV.
7) Quick Scan.
8) In the Guide Setup menu, remove all of the unused stations that the scan found and check to make sure that the OTA HD stations are mapped correctly (mine never are).
9) The next morning you should have guide data.

This works every time for me...I needed to do it last week after we had the lights flicker on and off a couple of times.

mstanl

10-17-06, 05:09 PM

Mike -
Do you see the a guide with your channels, but no program listings? Or is there no guide data at all (a black screen with some text)? If it is the latter and you're using cable TV for your SD stations - I've a suggestion.
1) Change your configuration (in the Guide Setup Menu) telling it that you do not have cable TV.
2) Do a Quick Scan.
3) Delete all OTA channels from the Menu screen (not the Guide Screen).
4) Turn off.
5) Unplug for 2 seconds (no longer).
6) Configure it with cable TV in the Guide Setup Menu to use cable TV.
7) Quick Scan.
8) In the Guide Setup menu, remove all of the unused stations that the scan found and check to make sure that the OTA HD stations are mapped correctly (mine never are).
9) The next morning you should have guide data.

This works every time for me...I needed to do it last week after we had the lights flicker on and off a couple of times.

Ok, I only have OTA - no cable, I did change the zip code did a guide reset still no listings,
I do see each channel in the guide but it only says "No Listing" each half hour.
I have a UPS and fans running 24x7 to the LG also,
I can receive and watch all channels and record any show with out problems.
The LG has the same Ant. feed as the 1 Sony and the Panny TV, No problems with guide with them. And no low Signal problems at all.
I also did a rescan of all channels.
I will try to tell it I have cable and rescan and then back to OTA and rescan,
I will try it tonight.
This is the Reset I used

TV GUIDE RESET—This will force a TV Guide Restart, drop the selected host channel, and you will lose all TV Guide Data, forcing it to download from square one. To get to this data, go to TV Guide/Messages, hit enter to see the local code, and type in the following: 653214741 and hit enter. In a few seconds TV Guide will blank, and start searching….

Thanks for your help

Mike

JRTrautschold

10-17-06, 06:10 PM

Mike -
This works every time for me...I needed to do it last week after we had the lights flicker on and off a couple of times.

One additional recommendation is to put your 3410, and any other digital equipment, on a UPS. I've got a 1500 VA UPS that my 3410 and TV are on. We have our share of power hits here in Palatine and the UPS takes care of all of them, keeping the 3410 and the other equipment very happy!

Jan J

10-17-06, 08:22 PM

You might be onto something, John!!!

Last night had to power cycle DVR2 (one getting data from WLS). No Guide when asked for.

Today wife tells me that both DVR's are not getting to TV Guide. Power cycle both...
Then, go into diagnostics.... Here's where things get real confusing.....

DVR #1, which is set for WFLD for data, is now reporting it is getting it's data from WTTW, channel 11 (0B) [and for those who have followed my continual poor hex to decimal conversions, yes, it was 0B or 11!)

DVR #2, which is set for WLS for data, is now reporteing it is getting it's data from WFLD, channel 12 (0C) [See, THAT'S why I got my hex right this time!! :) ]
(I now agree, it IS possible for TV Guide to (try) and get data from a Version 8 TV Guide station!!! Up till today, I wouldn't have believed it.... )

So, I gave a TV GUIDE RESET and Release host channel, go get new guide data to DVR#1,
and I gave a diagnostics only reset to DVR#2....

Seeing that both DVR's dropped channels and went wandering for a new host, I'm wondering if we had a power drop....

It's been an interesting day!!!

P.P.S.: Diagnostics access/soft reset: 753159852
TV Guide Hard Reset: 653214741

Hyrax

10-17-06, 11:52 PM

Ok, I only have OTA - no cable...

Mike -
Then all I can suggest is to delete all of the SD & HD OTA channels (outside of the guide I forget the exact wording but press the Menu key and I think it is the second option) and do a rescan.

What I have seen is that the 3410A gets confused mapping the channels that are active and the channels in the guide. When this happens the guide data is missing. For example, about a year or so ago I kept on getting 'No Listing' for 3 HD stations. All the rest of the HD & SD stations were fine. All I needed to do was delete the bad stations from the Edit menu and re-scan. Now if one of these stations happened to be the guide station, I suspect I'd be in the same boat you're in.

Hopefully that will work.

mstanl

10-18-06, 11:26 AM

OK ALL,,,,

Thanks for the tips, But when I got home last night and turned on the LG to
do some more resets, it had guide for today and the next day and also the 8th day out. I hope that I keep receiving the guide the next few days and all should be ok,

The last time I did the reset a few days ago when it came back on it asked me to delete a set reording show that it had found. I had deleted all settings for record shows a long time ago and this one never showed until now. I did delete that show did the reset a few days ago and last night I had guide. I'm not sure what totaly made it work again but I'm just glad.

Also what are we going to do if TV Guide so digital? I love both my LG and Sony DVRs and cannot live with out them. I sure did miss the LG the last two months.

Thanks for all your help
Mike

MrHifi

10-19-06, 10:39 AM

Hi guys,

FWIW, since I lturned on all my local receivable OTA and Cable analog stations over 2 months ago, my 3 3410's have operated perfectly. You will recall that I was having the types of troubles reported in the recent messages. I might suggest the following to everyone because I have helped a number of folks privately and this has worked flawlessly.

After completing a factory reset in the sevice menu. Left arrow and select button-selct factory reset-perform a normal out of the box startup. Let it sit overnight or maybe 2 nights. DO NOT EDIT local analog channels whether on cable or OTA. That seems to work. By the third day, you will have all available channels with info in the guide. You can edit any channels that are not receivable but be careful not to dele te those working analogs. I am in the Washington, DC metro area on Annapolis Comcast cable. I am looking for another 3410A or 3510A or the last stand alone tuner they came out with before stopping the production lines for STB's.

alk3997

10-19-06, 03:28 PM

Since a lot of us "old-timers" are checking-in, I thought I'd add my LST-3410A troubleshooting to the discussion. I'm trying to fix an issue where about once a week the guide (TVGOS) stops updating.

1) I have five TVGOS programs setup. I had one of them at regular and then the other four weekly. As I've been troubleshooting, I've changed all of the weekly's to regular's.

2) If I let things go without taking any action and then hit the TV Guide button, the picture shrinks to the usual thumbnail and then rest of the screen just shows green (no guide). The unit is then somewhat hung *but* the power on/off works. Upon powering backup, the TV Guide button and the VCR+ button don't work anymore.

3) Clearing the above condition requires a power-cycle. Once the power cycle occurs, then the buttons work normally but the missing TVGOS info isn't there (of course).

4) Here is the weird one - if I clear x number of programming entries, then the guide will download properly again. The amount of programming required to be deleted to get the TVGOS to start working again is still TBD. I can't tell if I have to go back to three or to four programs.

5) I haven't wanted to do a full reset of the system yet. I forget whether that would delete the recordings on the hard drive or not?

Any hints would be appreciated. Has anyone else hit this situation?

Stanton

10-20-06, 04:49 PM

Since you mentioned it, I've been having similar problems with my TVGOS. It seems to download guide when I DON'T have anything programmed, but stops once I program ANYTHING. I've been doing the (2 second) power cycle, but no long term satisfaction. The only other thing left to do is "reboot" the whole TVGOS system; I've never been convinced wiping out the whole box does any good. It seems like this stuff only happens when the TV schedules are changing frequently (like with the baseball playoffs now); kind of like the stations disrupt the data stream or something.

kucharsk

10-21-06, 04:04 AM

Does anyone know why the picture will, when recording some channels, freeze, break up into blocks, and then dither back into view? Is this a data stream issue?

I remember in January 2005, I couldn't record my local Fox station at all. Listening to the hard drive I could hear the unit wasn't liking what it was recording. You could watch the pictures just fine, but when recording it you were lucky if you had one second of usable video.

Well, my Fox station fixed whatever was wrong and I haven't had any problems recording anything, but now I can't record an episode of Gilmore Girls from my local CW station without it breaking up into artifacts up to once every minutes, but usually once every four or five minutes or so.

I had no problems recording it last season, and I have no difficulties recording any other station - CSI and Shark on CBS, My Name Is Earl on NBC, Desperate Housewives on ABC, etc.

Does anyone know what my local station could be doing wrong? Messed up PSIP data? Bad ATSC encoder?

By the way, I can watch the program just fine, it's only when recording, and it's not the hard drive in any way because I can record any other channel just fine.

Thanks in advance…

Hyrax

10-21-06, 10:35 AM

alk3997 & Stanton-
I've seen similar problems to what you're describing. I gave up trying to record in any mode except 'Once', and I usually set the shows I want to record the day they're broadcast. Since I've been doing this I have had zero problems, except when there are power outages.

kucharsk-
I've seen this on stations with weak signals. In fact, Fox was one of them, but there are others. The question as to why you can watch a channel error free and not record it is one of the great mystries of life. It just seems to be the nature of the beast. I'd suspect that there is better error correction/recovery logic from a live signal than from a recorded one - but why would they not be the same escapes me.

chefklc

10-21-06, 11:03 AM

I've never been convinced wiping out the whole box does any good.

With my unit, Stanton, that's the only thing I'm convinced does any good once you have a major change or disruption with your local system, so once or twice a year; besides, of course, the 2 second power cycle which routinely works for certain other minor annoyances.

And Art, thank you for restating what I had thought everyone here knew full well: you shouldn't delete your local analogs, period, you're asking for trouble if you do.

alk3997, yes, a factory reset erases any content on your hard drive. And yes, I think all of us has periodically experienced a recurring program glitch, either weekly or regularly, which causes some type of data corruption which can lock the system up out of the blue--usually for me it means I have to clear all weekly and regular schedules, then re-enter them. It's some type of data corruption, something's created that the unit deems illogical, and has no other way to deal with it. How this manifests itself seems a little different for all of us: what unit and firmware we have, how we receive guide data, etc. But we've all experienced it. Some users can't program anything in advance or anything recurring via the guide because of it--and just do manual.

kucharsk, best thing you can do is tune or record with another QAM dvr, see if you can duplicate the problem.

kucharsk

10-22-06, 08:10 AM

kucharsk-
I've seen this on stations with weak signals. In fact, Fox was one of them, but there are others. The question as to why you can watch a channel error free and not record it is one of the great mystries of life. It just seems to be the nature of the beast. I'd suspect that there is better error correction/recovery logic from a live signal than from a recorded one - but why would they not be the same escapes me.As I said, I didn't have any issues recording this signal before.

Ironically enough, it's actually my strongest signal; the big change is last season it was the only chennel; now the same channel is multicasting "The Tube" music videos full time.

JohnS-MI

10-22-06, 08:25 AM

As I said, I didn't have any issues recording this signal before.

Ironically enough, it's actually my strongest signal; the big change is last season it was the only chennel; now the same channel is multicasting "The Tube" music videos full time.

I wonder if that may be relevant. Most of my recordings are either the CBS or NBC affiliate. CBS has no subchannel, records well. NBC has a subchannel, recordings are almost always screwed up, even though live signal is very watchable. Maybe I should try Fox (no sub), ABC (sub) and PBS (sub) as a further experiment.

Whatever the reason, I have the same problem as you. For a while, I thought hard drive was shot, but I now think it is the data stream.

Jan J

10-22-06, 08:26 AM

Thanks for the great suggestion, John!!!
Picked up a UPS yesterday and put the DVR's & VCR on it.
Time will tell!!!!

ebo

10-23-06, 12:27 AM

Does anyone know why the picture will, when recording some channels, freeze, break up into blocks, and then dither back into view? Is this a data stream issue?
. . .

now I can't record an episode of Gilmore Girls from my local CW station without it breaking up into artifacts up to once every minutes, but usually once every four or five minutes or so.

By the way, I can watch the program just fine, it's only when recording, and it's not the hard drive in any way because I can record any other channel just fine.I've had that problem off and on (currently on) with my CW (formerly WB) station. As I believe you noted in a later post, the most recent trouble started at or about the time they added The Tube on a subchannel.

Last Thursday I recorded Smallville on the LG. Playback froze, then pixelated as it recovered, every few minutes. Sometimes it would repeat the same audio a few times. I found that if I played it in slow motion (press Play when it's already playing) it was completely pixelated, even the parts that played OK at normal speed.

I also recorded it on my laptop with an OnAir GT USB HDTV tuner. Live looked OK, although I couldn't pay close attention. Later I edited out the commercials with H2M and the result played almost perfectly, both with the OnAir player and through a MyHD card. One freezeup, one momentary audio loss. Far fewer problems than with the LG recording. I didn't save the original files to test, but H2M doesn't do much fixup.

UncD2000

10-23-06, 10:02 AM

I have had exactly the same problems trying to record Smallville from WGN 9-1 on my 3410A. I'll have to start watching it live because the recording plays back so poorly.

alk3997

10-23-06, 02:54 PM

As I said, I didn't have any issues recording this signal before.

Ironically enough, it's actually my strongest signal; the big change is last season it was the only chennel; now the same channel is multicasting "The Tube" music videos full time.

There is a trend - my only problems with actual recordings (not the TVGOS) is with recordings off the CW. This is with the Houston affiliate who, of course, has added The Tube as a subchannel.

When Fox was not HD (the "enhanced definition" days), my DVHS decks had a problem with their signal because the bitrate was too low for HD and too high for a SD picture, at least according to the DVHS firmware. I wonder if the local CW stations have knocked the bitrate on the HD picture too low for our 3410a's to recognize it properly for recording? The CW uses a different bitrate for their primary HD channel than the WB did - much more like UPN's.

kucharsk

10-24-06, 02:04 AM

Hmm… I've sent a pointer to this thread to my local affiliate, but does anyone have a contact in engineering at The CW?

abater

10-24-06, 09:50 AM

Folks that are having problems making the LG LST-3410A record the CW, does this only occur with network programming or are you unable to record during the day too?

Andy
Tribune Broadcasting

Jan J

10-24-06, 12:34 PM

Andy. Be aware that in Chicagoland, on 2 different 3410a's, I have no trouble with recording 9-1 on either.... I will try recording 9-2 tonight, and report back tomorrow.

Say "Hi" to Marc for me! :)!

Jan Janowski

wilsonsoohoo

10-24-06, 01:50 PM

Bummer!

I just spoke to someone at Contemporary Research, the company that make a device very similar to the 3410a. They ran out of components, so they no longer are selling their version of the DVR. They will be announcing a new receiver soon, but it will not have a DVR.

tarzan_nojane

10-24-06, 02:20 PM

After slogging through 130+ pages of posts, I notice surprisingly few comments from the SoCal folks. I'm in Long Beach with a great view of Mt. Wilson and strong OTA signals for most of our 20+ channels using the Silver Sensor UHF antenna. Also use Charter cable without a box.

After working flawlessly for more than a year, sometime early in the year the host channel seems to have switched to 0xB (KTTV-11 FOX) after a power failure. I began noticing that I only receive tomorrow, day after tomorrow, and a week later day IF the LG is switched off shortly after midnight. If I don't switch it off until around 1:00AM, then no TVGOS data the next evening, unless it was already there. Don't know how my machine can get a decent VHF (11) signal with only a UHF antenna??? I am trying to get the DVR to lock in on 28, 0x1C, (KCET-28 PBS). Have performed the various resets and am now in the 3rd day of trying the VHS deck technique. Cable disconnected, UHF connected to VHS( tuned to channel 28 and outputting RF channel 3 to the ANT input of the LG). The LG has configured (way down at the bottom of the list) 28-0 and 3-0 turned ON, 11-0 turned OFF.

Currently Host Channel reports as 0x3. The only positive thing is that I was asked to confirm whether or not I my lineup includes D-KIDS 104, which is probably to determine if the cable box channels should be included or the lineup limited to 0-99. I select the cable box version so as to get the major HD networks (cable 700+) and have reassigned them to the OTA HD channels. But so far still no listing updates. I am not sure about when I should reconnect the UHF antenna and cable to the LG. After all this, I don't want to review the settings and discover that it has again chosen Channel 11 FOX as the Host Channel.

If in fact Channel 28 KCET PBS is still the primary TVGOS carrier in the area, I would appreceiate any additional suggestions for restoring my Host Channel to a reliable source.

Jan J

10-24-06, 02:33 PM

Re-read message 4415

tarzan_nojane

10-24-06, 02:53 PM

> Re-read message 4415

Jan J if you meant 4115 and was replying to me... Believe me, I been carefully reading this forum for some time, and have performed both the diagnostic and Guide hard resets several times, and am frustrated by how it keeps locking onto OxB Channel 11.

Noticed on the diagnostic Page 1 that the current time is 18:50 (UTC) and the NextDL time is listed as 19:50 today. Does this indicate that I should expect one of the 4x per day downloads in about an hour? GUIDE light is currently OFF

alk3997

10-25-06, 06:23 PM

Folks that are having problems making the LG LST-3410A record the CW, does this only occur with network programming or are you unable to record during the day too?

Andy
Tribune Broadcasting

The funny part was last night seemed OK. I only had a chance to look at the first 5 minutes of a recording, but there were no glitches. Once I clear out a few other items on the to-do file, I'll try to record some more network/non-network shows.

Andy

kucharsk

10-26-06, 03:58 AM

Folks that are having problems making the LG LST-3410A record the CW, does this only occur with network programming or are you unable to record during the day too?I've had issues with both network and upconverted local programming.

I can't say for sure if it started when The Tube was added as a subchannel, but I do know that I was able to record Gilmore Girls glitch-free last season but I've had nothing but problems trying to record it this season.

Given that the problem seems to manifest with both CW and local programming (at least for me, viewing KWGN in Denver) I'm thinking something having to do with the PSIP data, as these receivers seem sensitive to it if people were correct as to what was causing problems recording Fox two years back.

It may not meean anything and it may just be an artifact of the glitch on the recorder rather than a cause, but if I step frame by frame through the glitch on my unit, what I see is motion in every frame until I get to the glitch, when I see several frames of no motion whatsoever followed by a jump to a different frame when in playback mode the picture would start "filling in" with macroblocks. This is also followed by a jump in audio corresponding to the jump in program content.

The other weird thing seems to be that the glitches are only in the recording; they seem not to show when viewing the program live, only when playing the recording back from the hard drive. (This too is the same behavior seen with Fox in 2005.)

Edit: I just tried recording from "The Tube" and suffered a few of the same glitches, so I guess it's the data stream rather than the CW per se.

Anyone else want to try recording "The Tube" from their Tribune station and see if they see the same issue?

wilsonsoohoo

10-26-06, 12:43 PM

If that doesn't work, try the TV Guide Reset instructions I posted above!!!!

It will not change your selected channels or logos, just drops the host channel and all data and finds new host and loads data anew....

Well it's finally working fine again - I've got a pretty complete guide again. But I'm not sure which maneuver did the trick, since I did the stuff you mentioned, as well as the changing of the zip code, unpugging it for various amounts of time, etc, and it seemed like the unit started getting the guide again days after I had semi-given up on it.

tarzan_nojane

10-26-06, 02:33 PM

Two overnights where only input to LG (off) was VCR (on), tuned to Channel 28 connected to ANT input. HOST CHANNEL continues to report 0x0. No Listings.

Third overnight with only input to LG (off) was Silver Sensor antenna (UHF) connected to ANT input. HOST CHANNEL continues to report 0x0. No Listings

This morning I connected the cable input, and after 30 minutes, HOST CHANNEL reports as 0xB (FOX Channel 11 in LA), even though 11-0 is turned off in the LG. I am back to square one (again) with lousy updates that occur during a narrow window around 12:30am.

Anybody else in the LA area using other than Channel 28 KCET PBS for their host?

ebo

10-27-06, 09:37 PM

tarzan_nojane:

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it's my understanding that if you tell the LG you have cable, with or without an STB, the LG won't look at the antenna input for analog stations, so you won't get guide info from there. If cable doesn't carry the analog station you want to get the guide from, or if they strip the guide info (some have been known to do that) then you'd have to feed the VCR (tuned to the OTA analog station) into the cable input. My guess is that you could use an RF switch and select the VCR when you want to get the guide and cable otherwise. Or you might use an antenna combiner for the VCR's output channel (usually 3 or 4) with the probable loss of adjacent cable channels.

Jan J

10-29-06, 10:40 AM

Rammitinski

10-29-06, 03:31 PM

My two V7 SD units get it from channel 20 (WYCC).

Jan J

10-30-06, 01:49 PM

My two V7 SD units get it from channel 20 (WYCC).

What is the host channel from diags, 20 ? That would be OTA Channel 32.

The host channel information is displayed in Hex, not decimal..

If the host info reports as 14, that would be Decimal 20.

Also, Where is WYCC on your cable? Here it is on Ch 20 same as OTA.
(More confusion for this thread).

Rammitinski

10-30-06, 01:56 PM

Well, whatever it actually is, it just says 20. There are no decimal points in there - just the number 20.

I don't currently have cable myself (just OTA and E*), but I know that in this area (on Comcast - Crystal Lake), WYCC is still channel 20.

Jan J

10-30-06, 02:20 PM

If you dont have cable, the 20 you refer to is actually 32

tasbro

10-31-06, 11:35 AM

tasbro

10-31-06, 11:36 AM

kucharsk

11-01-06, 03:34 AM

No idea, but today's Gilmore Girls was as bad as ever. The only thing I can think of is errors in the PSIP data. Either that or there's some brand of encoders that's doing something to the data that makes our recorders throw up.

JohnS-MI

11-01-06, 08:16 AM

I've had problems with NBC recordings OTA since mid September. They periodically get all blocky and video sitcks, and occasionally stops all together. Last night I noticed it timeshifting on NBC also.

Any thougts as to what these stations are doing to screw us up?

Thanks for posting. I have the exact same problem, including my 3410A saying it is stopping because of a hard drive problem.

I was debating and trying to resolve whether it was really a hard drive problem, I need a better antenna, or channel 4 is screwed up.

I'm pretty convinced it is the latter (although it is pretty watchable on tv, using either the tv's tuner or the 3410A's.). I probably need a better antenna too, but something is wrong with channel 4's signal. Unfortunately, I have no idea what.

Hyrax

11-01-06, 03:34 PM

I've had problems with NBC recordings OTA since mid September (Detroit area). They periodically get all blocky and video sitcks, and occasionally stops all together. Last night I noticed it timeshifting on NBC also.

Any thougts as to what these stations are doing to screw us up?

I believe that they're lowering the bit rate. I've noticed that several of the networks are now using subchannels. I don't know if that weakens the strength of the signal for the main channel or not, but it definitely lessens the bit rate.

If the lower bit rates are not the issue, it may be a signal strength issue. they may not be pumping out as strong a signal, or it could be natural causes. I've noticed that I get more drop-outs in the winter than in the summer. I assume that as the atmosphere loses moisture it becomes harder for me to get a good signal. You may want to consider a better antenna or an amplifier.

kucharsk

11-02-06, 04:39 AM

If the lower bit rates are not the issue, it may be a signal strength issue. they may not be pumping out as strong a signal, or it could be natural causes. I've noticed that I get more drop-outs in the winter than in the summer. I assume that as the atmosphere loses moisture it becomes harder for me to get a good signal. You may want to consider a better antenna or an amplifier.It could be the bit rate, but in most cases I don't think it's signal strength, especially if the signal is watchable but only shows errors when recorded, like the problem many are having with Tribune CW stations.

FWIW, in my case in Denver, the station I have recording issues with has a stronger received signal at my location than the other stations I have no issues recording.

Jan J

11-02-06, 09:18 AM

I think your propblems with recording may be PSIP related at the station in question.
Having no problems recording anything in Chicagoland, off any OTA or Cable station.

Methinks to clarify your posts, you should add the Station, location and show, so we know what area of the country we're talking about.

This way, if one person says an NBC show in Nashville doesn't work correctly, and another person taping the same show from say Chicago or New York City DOES tape it correctly, that checks out the network feed, but not the station.
Stations encrypt their call and channel number into OTA HD transmissions.

Say you want to record ABC in Chicago in HD. You'd ask for 7-1 (Because ABC in SD is channel 7).

Hyrax

11-02-06, 10:17 AM

FWIW, in my case in Denver, the station I have recording issues with has a stronger received signal at my location than the other stations I have no issues recording.
Interesting. It could be that your signal is too strong. I remember reading in the threads dealing with PC tuners that this used to be a problem.

I really think the problem is sub-channels. I wish I could see the problems to see if they're similar to mine. When the 3410A reports signal strength, it may be reporting on the strength of the combined channels. If your strongest signal contains sub channels, it is still possible that an individual channel isn't good enough for the 3410A.

The only channels I have no problem watching and do have a problem recording are those with sub channels. It used to be that my OTA stations didn't have sub channels while all of my HD cable stations were on sub channels. I've never been able to record the HD cable stations reliably.

I live 30 miles away from Boston and have never had problems recording OTA. Until recently only one OTA station had a subchannel. However, that changed when WB merged with UPN. I can no longer record WB OTA since they added added a sub channel.

Rammitinski

11-02-06, 01:06 PM

Methinks to clarify your posts, you should add the Station, location and show, so we know what area of the country we're talking about.

This way, if one person says an NBC show in Nashville doesn't work correctly, and another person taping the same show from say Chicago or New York City DOES tape it correctly, that checks out the network feed, but not the station.

Might be a good idea to check with people over on your local area OTA HD thread to see if anyone's having similar experiences, also.

nyg

11-02-06, 09:26 PM

I recently moved to a different city and ever since my DVR isn't picking up the guide information. Any clues as to why not? It's hooked up the exact same way it was at my last address. :confused:

kucharsk

11-03-06, 04:50 AM

Methinks to clarify your posts, you should add the Station, location and show, so we know what area of the country we're talking about.
Sorry, I did in my original post.

I'm having problems with KWGN in Denver, recording programming on either 2-1 (CW) or 2-2 (The Tube.)

Last season I had no issues recording them, but they didn't have a subchannel then (aha!)

But the local NBC station, KUSA, has 9-1 (NBC) and 9-2 (Weather Plus) and it records just fine.

Believe me, in Denver "too much" signal strength is not an issue as we have no full power HD stations.

To use the 3410's signal meter as a guide, most channels here range from the "o" to the "l" in "Normal" in strength; KWGN is halfway betwwen "Normal" and "Good."

WS65711

11-03-06, 09:15 AM

JohnS-MI

11-03-06, 09:28 AM

I recently moved to a different city and ever since my DVR isn't picking up the guide information. Any clues as to why not? It's hooked up the exact same way it was at my last address. :confused:

You need to enter your new zip code in a setup menu, and obviously do a channel scan.

Since putting in a wrong zip code is one way to clear a corrupted guide, the guide data must have some zipcode encoding and only load if there is a match, but I DON'T have format details.

wilsonsoohoo

11-03-06, 11:20 AM

I noticed a guy on HTS is selling his 3410a. I thought someone here might be interested. I have no affiliation with the seller.

http://www.***************.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/815606/an/0/page/0#Post815606

Dave

FWIW, I notice there are a couple of refurbs on you-know-where, too. Of course some have found out how good some of the refurbs are.

I'm not affiliated with the seller, either.

Dan Kolton

11-03-06, 11:24 AM

Will someone please tell me whether the signal strength meter on the 3410A actually displays strength, signal quality, or some combination of the two?

nyg

11-04-06, 11:12 AM

You need to enter your new zip code in a setup menu, and obviously do a channel scan.

Since putting in a wrong zip code is one way to clear a corrupted guide, the guide data must have some zipcode encoding and only load if there is a match, but I DON'T have format details.

I cannot find a way to change the zipcode via the menu. The TV Guide program doesn't even work. It won't even display on my screen. :(

geekrule

11-05-06, 11:34 PM

I cannot find a way to change the zipcode via the menu. The TV Guide program doesn't even work. It won't even display on my screen. :(

Unplug from power for about 30 seconds, it helps me get TV guide screen back.

nyg

11-08-06, 08:53 PM

Unplug from power for about 30 seconds, it helps me get TV guide screen back.

That used to work at my old address but it no longer does. Thanks anyway.

11-10-06, 10:50 AM

TV GUIDE RESET—This will force a TV Guide Restart, drop the selected host channel, and you will lose all TV Guide Data, forcing it to download from square one. To get to this data, go to TV Guide/Messages, hit enter to see the local code, and type in the following: 653214741 and hit enter. In a few seconds TV Guide will blank, and start searching….

Thanks for your help

Mike[/QUOTE]

11-10-06, 10:54 AM

After you unplug and get your guide back, try the reset above. I had the same problem and since I did this reboot, its been OK for a week now. Time will tell if it will last.

Jan J

11-12-06, 12:36 AM

kucharsk.....

My wife tells me she has no problem recording 9-1 (WGN here in Chicago), before or after the tube went on.

Runing V1.17 firmware in both units.

spongyfungy

11-15-06, 12:13 AM

a few questions about the 3410a availability. Has anyone called those tennesee stores and asked if they have any in stock? I would take a week off and run around the state, snatching every single one. (I live in chicago, so ok maybe not) btw I see there are many chicago people with this unit. I am going to assume every tweeter has been cleaned out?

on fleabay, one just went for over 450. 339 pageviews so obviously this thing is in hot demand.

kucharsk

11-15-06, 06:10 AM

kucharsk.....

My wife tells me she has no problem recording 9-1 (WGN here in Chicago), before or after the tube went on.

Runing V1.17 firmware in both units.Thanks for the data point, I appreciate it.

Rammitinski

11-15-06, 01:35 PM

I am going to assume every tweeter has been cleaned out?

Actually, it's the Sony DVR's which Tweeter cleared out. They never sold the LG unit to my knowledge.

You may have better luck finding the Sony unit, as it was in production more recently than the LG. Some people were finding refurbished DHG-HDD250's at Sony outlet stores for a couple of hundred bucks or so. And many BB's and CC's were selling their demo units off more recently for not much more.

Stanton

11-17-06, 11:56 AM

I'm looking for feedback on what I'm sure is a small subset of folks in the title. I recently switched from OTA only operation to cable+OTA operation using the "analog" (lower 50) channels feed from FiOS. My hope was that inconsistent EPG data from OTA would be replaced with solid EPG data from the cable equivalent of the same channel in town, but since I reconfigured the box, it can't find a host channel (yes, I did a guide reset). Now I'm wondering if Verizon strips/removes the EPG data before rebroadcasting the PBS station, or if the box just isn't looking on the right feed (cable vs. OTA). The latter seems unlikely, and I don't know that I can do anything about the former. Any suggestions besides reconfiguring the box for OTA only which will force the EPG to come from the antenna again? I thought it would be neat to have the cable channels in the guide, but it's not like I watch them much (at least not when you have hi-def FiOS instead).

Jan J

11-17-06, 07:27 PM

This will be highly technical, but if you have access to a scope with line counter, you can find the TV guide data by looking at each channel until you find it.
Look on line 15 on either field (1 or 2), that's line 15 and line 278 (this from memory)... and if you see data that looks kind of like closed captioning or VITC, but with twice or three times as much data on that one line, That should be TV Guide data....

Also remember that the channel number that is saved in the LG is displayed (Via TV Guide Diagnostics) in Hexidecimal.... I won't go into that, because it seems whenever I post a Hex number, I get corrected because posted it wrong :)!

Stanton

11-18-06, 04:24 PM

That's all well and good (and I don't have a scope), but even if you do identify channel(s) with TV Guide data, there's no way to FORCE the 3410 to look on that channel. In fact, that's why I used to never do a TVGOS reset (which drops the host channel), because there's no telling how many nights it would take to get it back. I've reset it to "OTA only", and if I can recapture my PBS station (x0D Hex here), then maybe I can go back to cable and "trick" it into looking there. Of course, this is all BS if it drops the host channel when you do the switch between with and without cable. Worst case, at least it won't lock-up anymore in the cable mode, because if it can't find the TVGOS data, it can't get corrupted (and the Guide light will never go off).

tomahawktrip

11-20-06, 12:09 AM

Hello, I am trying out a brand new Lg lst-1340a I am having lots of problems. I could call the 1800 number on the manual but I can tell you people know a hell of alot more then they do. I am on the out skirts of Reading Pa. trying to pick up Philadelphia stations (about 40 miles). Some are in Delaware. My antenna is on a second story roof pointed 129 degrees. Thats where all the channels are located. I have no obstructions. I had a Digital stream 3150 with a Sharp Aquos Hd ready tv and a Lacrosse amplified antenna. The 3150 used componet cables. I have the 1340 hooked up with dvi. I am only hooked up for over the air stations. I get about 23 stations it seems the Digital stream 3150 had a better picture than the Lg1340 . the Lg 1340 is also blacking out with a dvi blocked message. I can not get a tv guide. In the troubleshooting guide, using the menu button. the screen says unable to receive tv signal, invalid channel has been memorised, signal is unstable in dtv, current time is not set. I keep setting the time and this message keeps coming back. There are 23 stations I am picking up but I am sure there are things that I probably dont have set right, like I read in this forum where you can punch in a zip code I could not find that menu. I know thats alot of info but if someone could help out I would really appreciate it. Thank you. Robert

MrHifi

11-20-06, 03:29 PM

Stanton

11-20-06, 04:32 PM

Hello Hyrax, Stanton and Jan,
I do have a recurring issue. Every few days I lose the ability to get to the guide, i.e. pressing the guide button has no effect. An unplug/replug solves the problem for a night or 2 and I have to repeat it. Any thoughts?
I had that exact same problem when I ran OTA and was getting guide; I don't think you'll ever get rid of it. In fact, it seemed as though it because more frequent as time went on. I wonder if it's because they just don't care about the V7 feeds now that there's a V8 feed. That's part of the reason I'm about to go "no guide" and just use it as a dumb VCR.

Stanton

11-20-06, 04:46 PM

While it seems like there's lots of things at work here, I can offer the following observations:
1) You need to be able to receive your local "standard definition" analog channels if you hope to get any guide info (it's typically broadcast on PBS stations)
2) If you can't get the Guide and/or setup (zipcode) screen, you'll never get there. I would try doing hardware and/or system reboots (like even using the magical demo pin) to get this install menu to come up

If you can't get these things going, you're fighting an uphill battle (or maybe have a defective unit).
Good luck.

Rammitinski

11-20-06, 07:50 PM

I had that exact same problem when I ran OTA and was getting guide; I don't think you'll ever get rid of it. In fact, it seemed as though it because more frequent as time went on. I wonder if it's because they just don't care about the V7 feeds now that there's a V8 feed. That's part of the reason I'm about to go "no guide" and just use it as a dumb VCR.I think that they're actually even up to a 9th version of TVGOS now. I'm pretty sure that's what the newest, 480i Panasonic DVR's are using.

tomahawktrip

11-20-06, 11:08 PM

Thanks for the reply. I read in and around alot of your post. I have the zip code entered. It now gave me the option for antenna selection. I scanned and must wait for the download if any. For the dvi block message I replaced the cable it is currently working ok but I want to give it more time as it may be heat related problem. It still has a lot of the troubleshooting messages highlighted, maybe thats normal. It seems to be working fine. I must admit after reading all the post i hope I didnt make a mistake. I did have trouble understanding the factory diag , I found in some of the post. I pushed the arrow and select got in but did not understand anything after that. Thanks again. Robert.

wookatok

11-21-06, 01:01 PM

Hello Hyrax, Stanton and Jan,

Can't believe we are up to 140+ messages. My 3 units are working well. I record from the cable channels that ar stable enough to record, NBC Wash. DC, ABC Baltimore, CBS DC. Fox I get OTA because the Cable version jumps to other stations as doe the ABC DC feed. AH the mysteries of the 3410A. I do have a recurring issue. Every few days I lose the ability to get to the guide, i.e. pressing the guide button has no effect. An unplug/replug solves the problem for a night or 2 and I have to repeat it. Any thoughts? Otherwise, everything records perfectly. I have 1 with a 300GB, two others with 120 GB drives. I have noticed that the OTA signals are far better than the similar cable feeds. This is a relatively recent change. A year ago they were equal in PQ.

Have a nice Thanksgiving old friends and if you have a solution, please let me know.

Hello MrHifi and others,

I'm in Washington, DC and have the same problems you mentioned. I have two boxes that are connected to cable and one of them also connected to OTA. The box connected to both cable and OTA (upgraded to 300GB drive) lost guide info the last couple of weeks but the other box remained stable (go figure!). I reset the guide and changed zip codes and now I'm back to normal. I'm also getting unexpected switching between some stations with subchannels.

Other than the normal quirks, I still enjoy recording on these boxes.

Happy holidays,

-James

Hyrax

11-21-06, 03:23 PM

Hello Hyrax, Stanton and Jan,
I have noticed that the OTA signals are far better than the similar cable feeds. This is a relatively recent change. A year ago they were equal in PQ.

Have a nice Thanksgiving old friends and if you have a solution, please let me know.

Art-
I hope you enjoy your Thanksgiving as well! I've been meaning to tell you how helpful your posts have been in the Optoma HD81 thread have been. They convinced me to wait a bit before jumping onto the 1080P bandwagon.

As to your cable HD looking worse than you OTA...just wait a bit, OTA seems to also be declining. A year or so ago my OTA looked fairly crisp and rather good during live sports broadcasts. These days both the cable stations and OTA look pretty bad. Monday Night Football used to have very good PQ, but the one game I saw this year was terrible. I had to switch from my front projector to a smaller RPTV.

One thing that has changed is that I upgraded my projector last summer and it is now much easier to spot poor PQ. So perhaps it was always there and my old projector was protecting me :).

Jan J

11-22-06, 08:59 AM

In Chicagoland here. A couple months ago we discovered the AC outlet on our 3410a's didn't have a ground wire. We discovered that because the UPS system we were going to install on the 3410a's reported no ground.
Well we have a ground, and a UPS with RFI/EMI filtering on the 3410a's as of 2 months ago......
Time will tell

Hyrax

11-22-06, 01:43 PM

Is it evil to be considering a Tivo Series 3 box? If so, I have sinned.

UncD2000

11-23-06, 01:53 AM

Me too. My D* HR20 DVR has been the workhorse for the 7 weeks I have had it. The 3410A is not nearly as versatile but functions well as the secondary unit.

kucharsk

11-28-06, 05:26 AM

The right audio channel on my 3410A has just gone south - it's completely distorted and blown out sounding while the left channel is fine, as is the digital output.

Anyone else have this happen? I plan on tearing it apart to look for anything obvious that's fried, but doubt I'll find anything obvious…

11-28-06, 08:35 PM

Fortunately I have not experienced this problem, however, I would use the optical output and forgo the analog connections. I would be worried about turning it in for repair.

Jan J

11-28-06, 08:48 PM

Need more information... There are 2 different audio outputs.... Fixed and Variable...
Are both bad or just one? Fastest fix is to swap to other output..... and stay there, if that fixes it! :)!

Just occurred to me... Flip Flop your outputs L for R and R for L... Is it the 3410a or the device that follows??? If it follows the right output of 3410a, keep following these instructions....

If Fixed is good and variable bad (See Page 3-82 & 3-83) it's most likely C113 or C709, with a possibility of IC 125 is bad.

If Fixed is bad C706, C713 or IC 155.

If both fixed and variable right output is bad, your back into IC 124 and it's support circuitry! and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!

You'll need a scope to confirm any of this...
Or, an ESR meter to check the caps....

kucharsk

11-29-06, 02:36 AM

If both fixed and variable right output is bad, your back into IC 124 and it's support circuitry! and I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy!!Yeah, both the fixed and variable right channel outputs are toast - it sounds like a cheap amplifier turned up to max, with distorted, clipped audio. The left channel (fixed and variable) is just fine, and the digital audio output is fine.

I found out the LG will fix 3410s for $99 labor + parts, but their turn-around time is averaging one month… :(

Jan J

11-29-06, 07:36 AM

I wonder if they fix to component level or just boardswap...

Well from your symptoms it is back into digital area, not a simple output cap or op amp.

ebo

11-29-06, 02:34 PM

If Fixed is good and variable bad (See Page 3-82 & 3-83) it's most likely C113 or C709, with a possibility of IC 125 is bad.

If Fixed is bad C706, C713 or IC 155.Sounds like you have a service manual, or at least a schematic. Do you know where I can get a manual? I did a thread search, but only came up with a dead link to eBay, and a search on eBay didn't find anything either.

wilsonsoohoo

11-30-06, 02:29 PM

Sounds like you have a service manual, or at least a schematic. Do you know where I can get a manual? I did a thread search, but only came up with a dead link to eBay, and a search on eBay didn't find anything either.

LOL.

I bet Jan learned about these things by taking one apart and putting it back together, he knows so much about them . . .

JRTrautschold

12-01-06, 10:27 AM

I have found that to be the case.... Here in Chicagoland, there are 3 channels transmitting TV Guide info. CH32, CH7 (Primary, Secondary V7 Guide data), and CH 11 (V8 Data).
Our LG's want V7 data, but there have been reports (one of them, me!) where an LG has locked onto V8 data instead of V7.

Here's an update on Jan's earlier post. I just finished speaking with our Gemstar/TV Guide tech support guy because of some issues with guide data on Wide Open West's cable systems here in the Chicago area. Apparently a number of individuals are complaining that they are only getting partial data from us (WBBM). I don't know which box they are using (probably not a 3410). The probably apparently is on WOW's end since our data looks good going to them.

I then asked him to give me the list of primary and secondary stations for V7 (what he calls legacy data) and V8 data.

WFLD-32 V7 Primary
WLS-7 V7 Secondary
WTTW-11 V8 Primary
WBBM-2 V8 Secondary

He was pretty sure that the 3410 locked to V8 data. I mentioned that most of us that have it hooked up to cable lock to WFLD which is V7 data. At that point he wasn't sure, but based on Jan's report, it sounds like it may lock to either, which is a good thing.

I also asked him what was going to happen to these "older" devices when OTA analog goes away in 2009. He chuckled and said, "Good question - we are working on ways to add the data to a digital metadata stream." I asked if these older devices, such as the 3410, would be able to handle that and he said he wasn't sure. Perhaps they'll have a better answer as development continues. In any case, at least he's aware that those of us with 3410's would like to see the data continue to stream in.

Bill Shenefelt

12-01-06, 10:51 AM

Jan J

12-01-06, 09:56 PM

JRTrautschold

12-01-06, 10:17 PM

Just out of curiosity, how do you contact the guy at Gemstar (TVGOS?)? I was in contact with a Cheryl Robblees before with toshiba problems with TVGOS and it stil is not right. Her email address is now dead. Also, what is the problem with digital with the 3410A. The UHF digital and HI def broadcasts chould be able to carry data even easier than the VHF stations now used.

The person I spoke with works in the broadcast operations department. Quite honestly, I don't feel it's right to give out his name and phone number here without permission. I have a number of regular contacts at Gemstar because I work in the broadcast industry. Rest assured that I will pass on any future information that I receive. I'm sure that Jan J. will as well.

JRTrautschold

12-01-06, 10:24 PM

From conversations I had with Norpak and Gemstar, the 3410a can only properly receive V7 data. In order to find out what version TV Guide your running in any box, find the firmware listing area, and if TV Guide reports V7.xxxx it's V7 and V8.xxx it's an 8.

By the way, yesterday or day before, both my 3410a's received a new TV Guide list of Icons.... and the dreaded If WBBM is on 2 select 1, If WBBM is on 3 select 2, If WBBM is on 22 and CNBC is on ..... At the bottom of the list that is sent is always the OTA icons. So even if I have my icons selected and ordered in a nice orderly fashion, when new icons are selected the OTA's are always moved to the bottom, where I have to retrieve them to the top...
Certain, selected stations only have one icon (WYCC and WPWR) so those get their channel numbers changed to the OTA equivalents: (20-1, 50-1)... When the new icons get downloaded these change back to 20 and 8 (Where Comcast puts them). I also change WLSDT2 to 7-2, and WTTWD2 to 11-2.

I asked Norpak what they'd be doing, and they thought that one or more cable channels might remain SD and they'd put that data there. We have ~ 2 years for them to make a decision...
We could always use the VCR+ programming!!!

Yeah Jan, I think I recall checking my unit for the version number some time ago. I don't remember what it is though. I guess I'll have to go back and check again.

Just out of curiosity, you mentioned that one of your boxes had locked to V8 data. Was the ability to lock based on a certain firmware revision? Also, are you sure that what the diagnostics are reporting is the firmware version inside the 3410, or the type of data the box is locking to? According to the guy I spoke with today, anything made after 2002 is supposed to be design for V8 data. (I'm not sure when the 3410 was designed.) And although I didn't ask the question, it almost sounded like Gemstar can reprogram their hardware on the fly, much the same way in which they update the icons.

UncD2000

12-02-06, 01:30 AM

I asked Norpak what they'd be doing, and they thought that one or more cable channels might remain SD and they'd put that data there. We have ~ 2 years for them to make a decision...
We could always use the VCR+ programming!!!I expect Comcast to offer a basic analog tier of maybe 30 channels long past the cutoff date. This ties up a lot of bandwidth, but if they don't do this, they figure to lose a lot of customers that don't want to bother with a digital box for their old TVs, even if it's free.

The VCR+ screen will probably be inaccessible without guide data coming in.

Jan J

12-03-06, 12:25 PM

JRTrautschold

12-03-06, 06:11 PM

You're right, John.. Once I did find the 3410a locked up on WTTW (11, a 'V8' station). I went looking because I stopped receiving Guide info....
From what I learned from Gemstar folks, I think it was in error, but someone else also posted their's did, as well!!!

My wife informed me that she used VCR+ once on a 3410a that hadn't yet received enough data to do a TV Guide Logo or channel map, so I think it should work... She told me she put in channel number and time only, no program code. It recorded fine, but no title on the recording in the playback list.

We've also done muliple VCR+ recordings on CH4 (which is locally inserted into the incoming cable feed after the "BOX".... (My local CH4: It's the Cable box output [sometimes downconverted]off the "Box"), and there is no CH4 listing in 3410a TV Guide at all (Intentionally turned off by us). This way, she can record HBO or any other cable program we can receive with our box, into any DVR or VCR in the house (HBO for example, looks better after downconversion and re-modulation by me than it does in SD delivered by Comcast on channel 550 on the cable box!!!)

Well, we'll see what mine locks on to now. After months and months of trouble-free service I lost the program guide info this past week. In fact, I think it disappeared about the same time you'd mentioned that Gemstar sent new icons (logos). And although I doubt this has anything to do with it (since I've been locked to WFLD via cable), it was also about the same time that I shut our guide data off at WBBM. It seems as though any time Gemstar does something "unusual" (like send new icons) the 3410's get confused.

When it works, it works perfectly - when it doesn't, it's kinda a PITA! :(

tawtone

12-08-06, 01:43 PM

Hello folks
Well my 3410a that i purchased on 10-23-06 seems to have bit the dust.
It started the intermittent color stripes on the tvgos and now does this all the time.
I have followed the directions to factory reset to no avail.
I can't even scan for channels now.
Guess i have a $400 paperweight!!
This really bums me out because the unit performs so well otherwise.
Any suggestions appreciated.

Jan J

12-08-06, 02:39 PM

Not clear -- is stripes occurring only on playback or at all times?

Bill Shenefelt

12-08-06, 03:29 PM

Call them. They may do an exchange (they no longer repair) for not a whole lot. I got one exchange-repaired for about $100.

tawtone

12-08-06, 08:51 PM

Not clear -- is stripes occurring only on playback or at all times?

Stripes are occurring only when accessing the TVGOS screen
Other than that great pics and well pleased

i pulled the top case off and found the gemstar board.
By carefully freeze spaying the IC's i have located the problem IC
Pure luck and chance

Will see if e bay will coerce the seller to provide refund or exchange and if no luck will try to get IC replaced locally.

Does anyone on here have a schematic or a service manual?
I have an owners guide but it is not much help inside the unit.
What do the DIP swithes control inside?

Thanks for any help

kucharsk

12-08-06, 09:37 PM

Call them. They may do an exchange (they no longer repair) for not a whole lot. I got one exchange-repaired for about $100.Are you sure about that?

I called LG about two weeks ago, and they told me it would be $99 + parts to repair my 3410a.

Bill Shenefelt

12-09-06, 04:40 AM

They told me $99 at first for exchange so I sent them my unit. I got a bill to reapir for about $899 wanting confirmation and payment so I called again. After several calls they then said that the $899 was for repair rather than exchange and they would do the exchange for the $99 and did. If you can, swap out the chip as that would avoid confusion. If not, go forth and fight it out and try to get the $99 exchange deal or at least an agreement that they can change the chip and not the whole motherboard like they wanted to do with mine for the $899. I have several of the units as I did not want to lose use of one. They can be unreliable (as you see) and since I have about a grand into a 169time computer and modification for my descrambler so I could record HD from my satelite which works well with the 3410A. No one as of yet makes a comparable HD hard drive recorder. (the Tosh Symbio is junk!) Due to the bucks I have in the 169time system, I don't want to be stuck with that cost due to failure of a 3410 so I have 3 backups. Two were new and two were Ebay buys. Also lets me set one for each OTA hd channel for tv that way. This leaves one for HD movies off C band Satellite with swap out hard drives. Actually cheaper to save a movie on hard drive than to buy an HD DVD. Problem is that the stupid movie channels like HBO and Starz change HD movies infrequently. IF you can, get the 3410A working. Nothing else like it out there and it is totally out of production.

tawtone

12-09-06, 10:23 AM

IC300

This is the bad IC that i was referring to.

wilsonsoohoo

12-09-06, 06:31 PM

They can be unreliable (as you see) and since I have about a grand into a 169time computer and modification for my descrambler so I could record HD from my satelite which works well with the 3410A. No one as of yet makes a comparable HD hard drive recorder. (the Tosh Symbio is junk!) Due to the bucks I have in the 169time system, I don't want to be stuck with that cost due to failure of a 3410 so I have 3 backups.

Bill,
Do you have a method for getting the 169time mod and the 3410a to talk to each other reliably? I usually have to hit the record button several times to get a recording to commence. Once a recording would start, though, they generally came out okay and were easily archived to dVHS. Even though the R5000-HD mod is easier to use I've found it harder to get stuff to stream relaibly to dVHS, so I'm thinking about going back to my 169time rig if I could learn of a way to get it to talk to my 3410a reliably.

Bill Shenefelt

12-09-06, 06:54 PM

Wilsonwoohoo: Reliable? Moderately, still takes several tries to start it flowing, sometimes even a swap of the firewire cable. Why? Don't know but it does. I did find though that with my Sat receiver and HDD200 desccrambler, the 3410A would just wait till the timer turned the receiver on as a programmed viewing and then start the recording. Meant that I could start a recording, program the sat receiver to a show and turn the C band sat receiver off. Then the 3410 would just sit there no recording going on waiting for a signal to fire up the hard drive. When the show came on, it would record only the show and not waste disk space awaiting the show. I also found that the Hard Drives were about the same cost as tapes. At first, I could record multiple shows with blank real time in between (none on the disk) but now it seems only to work for the first one. I could run a ribbon outside the 3410 and attach the drive there. Just unplug and swap hard drives. I think Ihave about 4 300 gig drives filled right now. Have tapes come down in price? I have both the JVC and mist dvhs recorders but used mainly the 3410A

JRTrautschold

12-09-06, 09:20 PM

By the way, yesterday or day before, both my 3410a's received a new TV Guide list of Icons....

Question for you Jan. Which new icons did you receive? I know you've mentioned a number of times over the years about new icons showing up, but whenever I've checked the display on the 3410 I've never seen any new ones. I would think that, by now, old icons such as "The WB" and "UPN" would be gone, replaced with "The CW" and whatever Fox is calling their new "network".

Rammitinski

12-09-06, 09:54 PM

Most of the changes that I've noticed (during the times he mentioned) have been with the cable channels, not really the local OTA ones. As far as local, at least in our area, it's just been the "adding" of channels more than anything else. But I haven't noticed anything different so far this time, either. Of course, I just have my Sony's guide to go by, which has the 8th version of TVGOS. I'll have to set up the one on my other deck, which has the L7, which your LG uses, and check that one out. I can receive all of the cable channel's info OTA on both, so I'll check that, too.

Serafica

12-09-06, 11:17 PM

swSteve

12-10-06, 02:32 AM

VideoGrabber

12-10-06, 05:15 AM

Quite the pot of gold there! Thanks very much for sharing, Steve.

- Tim

Jan J

12-10-06, 09:06 AM

EXCELENT FIND!!!! Note that only V1.15 firmware is there, not V1.17

John, I'm checking for you... Off the top of my head, it's only WGN 2nd, WTTW, 3rd and cable items.
WYCC, WPWR, still have only one icon. Cable icons seem to be in a perpetual state of fllux though, with GAME Icons constantly increasing and decreasing.... I'm not using Cable box interface, just analog cable items.

The reason why I know it's icons, and not just a reload..... All cable icons load on day 1, and then OTA icons load the next day... All channel assignments are reset at that time (As I mentioned, WYCC reverts back to 20 from my programmed 20-1, and WPWR reverts back to 8 from my progrgrammed 50-1. WGN D2 and WTTW D3 also loose their programming by me, too..

JRTrautschold

12-10-06, 06:59 PM

========= FLASH =============

Well guess what GOOGLE just dredged up?

If you're interested, you can go to google.com and
do a search for (remember to put in the quotes)

LST-3410a "service manual"

Look closely at the 4th hit that begins with 136.166

It will take you to a magical website filled with 3410A manuals.

NOTE - I don't expect this to last very long...

cheers

Steve

WOW!!! That IS an excellent find. I did a bit of sleuthing and discovered who's ftp site that is. I'm not going to publish it here for fear that "they" will discover its availability and take it off line. Email me if you'd like to know. (It's actually pretty obvious - kinda-sorta!)

And here's a hint. You need to drop back one directory in order to grab the real files. The Google link takes you a bit too far. Click on To Parent Directory first to get to the directory with the actual files. The link at the top of the page looks like this when you're in the right spot:

136.166.4.200 - /contents/Files/STB/LST-3410A/

I just finished downloading everything. While I haven't looked at all of it thoroughly yet, what seems to be the most valuable is the training material (probably used for the service techs) and the Gemstar document.

Enjoy!

JRTrautschold

12-10-06, 07:04 PM

WOW!!! That IS an excellent find. I did a bit of sleuthing and discovered who's ftp site that is.

Oh yeah - and if you keep clicking on To Parent Directory you can find information on, perhaps, all of LG's products! You wanna know about LG refridgerators? You'll find it there! :D

JRTrautschold

12-10-06, 07:05 PM

John, I'm checking for you... Off the top of my head, it's only WGN 2nd, WTTW, 3rd and cable items.
WYCC, WPWR, still have only one icon. Cable icons seem to be in a perpetual state of fllux though, with GAME Icons constantly increasing and decreasing.... I'm not using Cable box interface, just analog cable items.

The reason why I know it's icons, and not just a reload..... All cable icons load on day 1, and then OTA icons load the next day... All channel assignments are reset at that time (As I mentioned, WYCC reverts back to 20 from my programmed 20-1, and WPWR reverts back to 8 from my progrgrammed 50-1. WGN D2 and WTTW D3 also loose their programming by me, too..

Thanks Jan. I'm more and more intrigued with Gemstar's system every day. I wonder if they have the ability to update firmware on their systems remotely?

wilsonsoohoo

12-10-06, 10:02 PM

swSteve

12-10-06, 10:40 PM

Did you notice that their "official" LST3410 page includes a link
back to this forum topic?

I suppose they get a big laugh out of watching us suffer
trying to get these crashy buggy things to work while they do
nothing to help.

How about open-sourcing the software so we can try to fix the problems ourselves?

Or maybe they could adapt some of the HDR-230's firmware that uses ATSC
guide data instead?

How about some firmware to disable the TVG system altogether
so we can have some reliability?

I just plugged in my 3410 after months of non-use and
after 3 days it STILL can't figure out what time it is. :-(

(even though the GUIDE indicator is ON)

Steve

bliffle

12-11-06, 05:36 PM

Hello Hyrax, Stanton and Jan,

... Every few days I lose the ability to get to the guide, i.e. pressing the guide button has no effect. An unplug/replug solves the problem for a night or 2 and I have to repeat it. Any thoughts? ....

Same thing started happening on my 3410A the last few months. Annoying. So I use "TitanTV" mostly, since TVG never gave me PBS stations (which is mostly what I watch) anyway.

avnstf

12-12-06, 12:30 AM

Hmm...haven't been here for a while, and now have a new problem - no tv Guide listings since I let my hard drive fill up completely. Have done the usual things, like unplug the unit for anywhere from 15 minutes to overnight. Still not getting any listings.

Anybody else have this happen when your drive overflowed?

Thanks - Tony :confused:

wilsonsoohoo

12-12-06, 01:55 AM

I've had it happen when I got to about 90% full. I'm not sure if there was a cause-and-effect relationship, but I keep my drive down to 80% at the most now.

avnstf

12-12-06, 02:34 AM

This is actually the second time it's happened to me, and both times when when the drive filled right up, so the cause-effect relationship seems clear in my case. The first time it happened, I got it straightened out after a while, but in this case I haven't succeeded...

so I'm hoping to find someone who had exactly this happened, and knows what he/she did to fix it!

wilsonsoohoo

12-12-06, 02:25 PM

The reason I'm not sure if there was a cause and effect relationship is because I did a lot of other things to try to get it working at the same time, including Jan's guide reset, Jan's other reset, changing the zip code more than once, unplugging the unit for a minute, unplugging the unit for several hours, re-aligning my antenna, and several incantations, some not G-rated.

The Guide still didn't work but then mysteriously started to work again three days later after I had given up on it.

kaetamer

12-19-06, 12:29 AM

Same thing started happening on my 3410A the last few months. Annoying. So I use "TitanTV" mostly, since TVG never gave me PBS stations (which is mostly what I watch) anyway.

How do you incorporate the TitanTV listings for use with your 3410?

avnstf

12-19-06, 08:06 PM

With regard to my lost program listings above, sometime after I unplugged the unit overnight, it started picking up listings again...it may have been ONE night later, or it may have been TWO...I'm not usure which, but one makes more sense.

Tony

PS regarding last question, I doubt he's incorporating the Titan listing directly with the 3410A, but rather only through his own brain!

Bill Shenefelt

12-20-06, 02:40 PM

Usually an overnight without power will fix most problems. Lost channels, no listings etc. Takes a few more hours to find the time so the guide works for recordings as it loses the time also. At least with an off the air antenna I have to do a setup, find channels and remove some listings from my program guide. Stupid thing still lists all the cable channels and some locals are intermixed so it takes a while to reset up the guide.

Jan J

12-20-06, 06:50 PM

Tawtone....

What ever became of the bad IC on the Gemstar board? Just nosy....

tawtone

12-21-06, 07:11 PM

Tawtone....

What ever became of the bad IC on the Gemstar board? Just nosy....

Well i guess after going a round with the seller on E Bay, E Bay, and Square trade i learned a few things.

The most important of all was to read very closely!!!

With the feeling of nothing to lose and after reviewing the service manuals i decided to take a chance.
I got the little pencil point soldering iron, a magnifying glass and hologen desk lamp together.
Set up on the kitchen counter and went down one side of the IC soldering the connectors.
LO AND BEHOLD
Set it back up and it played great for a week, put the case back on, set it back up and the next day **%&^ stripes again!!
I told the wife before i put the case back on that i thought it would do that, i have had several computers that hated their cases
Well back to the kitchen counter and soldered the other side of IC
So far so good, knock on wood.
Haven't put the case back on yet and may not because of the heat.

I seem to be having problems with the guide loading and setting up recording.
I am about to try the overnite unplug after i restore to factory settings.

I had my boys over last weekend and we reworked the old antenna system. One is an IT tech and the other has worked for several of the cable companies so i had good tech help. I have a Winegard 9032 UHF and an older Winegard VHF antenna at 50' elevation. Using a Channel Master 264 preamp that has separate UHF/VHF inputs.
using twinlead from antenna to mast preamp then 6 coax from preamp to tuner.
Picture is beautiful on all of the Baton Rouge HD stations, much better than the cable feed!!

I am still open to any suggestions to make my unit work better.
Thanks for the help from everyone on here
Happy and safe holidays to all from the swamps of LA.

Jan J

12-22-06, 11:19 AM

I'm guessing that it is either temperature sensitive or intermittant....

Congrats on being able to take a pencil to it, and keep the shorts away!!!

juancmjr

12-23-06, 10:21 PM

Hello all,

I've been perusing this thread for a few months now for advice & finally decided to join the forum. My problems with the 3410a haven't been as severe as several others on this thread, just TVGOS related. I'm sure most if not all of us on this thread bought this particular unit to 1) record HD and because it was the only unit to do so at the time we bought it, 2) not have to pay a monthly or lifetime subscription fee to TiVo. @ least that was my reason for buying it. Hardware wise my 3410a hasn't had a drive or IC failure & recording to DVHS has been glitch free so far (knock on wood). Maybe some of you who have experienced hardware failures would agree with my dad when he jokingly (seriously?) said LG stood for Lotta Garbage. This is my 1st and only LG product so I can't really say I agree but who knows what the future holds...

Bill Shenefelt

12-24-06, 06:23 AM

Juancmjr;
I would suggest that for the sake of continued good luck, you keep the unit cool. This is about the hottest piece of electronics I have seen except maybe for an older C band satelite receiver I owned (which cooked its power supply). It does pump out the heat and has no cooling fan. By all means never set any other equipment on top of it or restrict airflow or it is bound to cook itself. The only problems mine have caused me since I recognized that problem with heat is once in a while they lose the guide or some response to the remote control or front panel buttons. . Turning off (fully unplugging) overnight followed by reprograming the channel lineup and rescanning for channels usually fixes that though. The unit is a really nice piece of equipment but I think the reliability problems are what led LG to quit making it. Unfortunately, I don't know of any other electronics with the same capabilities.

juancmjr

12-25-06, 04:00 PM

i actually did note that the unit would heat up a bit more than my other gear. for a while it was up on spikes which probably did help with cooling. at the same time the guide was functioning perfectly until around july/august when i decided to rearrange my gear & clean off the jacks after which i replaced it on its own feet. on a completely different note, does anyone receive channels not offered or listed on their cable/ota systems through the 3410a? for example, i get nba network & the russian television network of america (RTN), both of which are dtv channels, on the 3410a even though neither is offered or listed on comcast in my area.

Jan J

12-26-06, 09:01 AM

I found that the temperature can be reduced a bit by increasing the height of the feet under the unit... I increased one and not the other, and I could feel the differnce in temperature with my hand. After the 2nd unit received "Higher" feet, then the temps were the same....
Also, John suggested powering it by a UPS, which we did... and the 2-3 months it's been on that, seem to be less problamatical.... Ask me again in a year :)!

Timmer1970

12-26-06, 02:36 PM

Anyone who converted to version 1.17, is there a noticable difference in channel change speed?
I currently have 1.15 and am thinking about upgrading to 1.17 (if anyone out there still has 1.17 and is willing to share)

Tim

jeneral

12-26-06, 10:58 PM

I would also love the opportunity to get the 1.17 firmware. For the past 6 months, I've been having to nurse my 3410a along. I usually have to check it every night to see if the guide is downloading. When it's not, I use the 653214741 reset code to get it downloading again. This is becoming a pain in the butt and I'd be willing to try a FW upgrade to see if it helps resolve the issue. I've reset the unit to factory defaults many times but the same problems arise (lockups, no EPG, etc...). Since most of my EPG crashes all seem to be in the 6:00-6:30 p.m. range, I programmed the unit to turn on and record ANYTHING during that time every day just to avoid it crashing. For the most part, this seems to work. I even managed to go an entire week without entering the old reset code. It's a shame really, this unit worked flawlessly for the first 5 months I had it. Ever since an EPG lockup one day, it hasn't worked properly. I do have a full EPG but it requires a lot of upkeep.

Thanks for the user with the links to the service manual!! Great share!

micmel2

12-27-06, 08:33 PM

juancmjr

12-27-06, 09:55 PM

I've got v1.17 firmware on my machine & noticed way more freezes & "No Listing" on the EPG in the last few months like you have micmel2. My HD listings on the EPG have disappeared. One problem that may have sprung up as well is after a freeze the green 'Reserved' light will come on despite no recordings being programmed in which will somehow block loading of TVGOS. When I turn on the machine the "Invalid channel (A/V1, A/V2) for scheduled recording" message will come on after full boot up. Maybe we should try jeneral's way of keeping the EPG by recording something during the 6-630 time slot. Does anyone else's machine show a time between 6-630 on the clock after unplugging it?

micmel2

12-28-06, 01:16 AM

Juancmjr, I noticed that you, too, are in the Bay Area. I wonder whether our local host station (channel 9) is sending out faulty data that is causing our machines to fail. Anyone else in the Bay Area noticed an increase of freezes, invalid channel recording messages, lockouts, etc. lately? Also can you verify that the host station is indeed channel 9.

I'm getting my TV via OTA, so I'm wondering whether the bad weather that we've been having lately is a factor in causing our machines to fail? Perhaps garbled data in the data stream?

tawtone

12-28-06, 09:52 AM

I wish that there were a way to disable the downloading of the EPG completely since I don't even depend on it to decide what to record; I simply use my machine as a dumb VCR, i.e. program the date, time, channel, and length of show for each show I want to record.

I have my unit for over two years now; the first 18 months have been without any incident, but lately, I've been getting freezes, lockups, etc. Is it just my unit, or have other people experienced an increase in mishaps with this unit lately? FWIW, I'm on 1.15 firmware.
I've been tinkering with my 3410a unit still.
The TVGOS wasn't working correctly.
I found a listing of codes for the "Gemstar?" board on the forum below:
AVS Forum > HDTV > HDTV Recorders
Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread

Page 270 dated 12-20-06 @ 2:00PM #8075
posted by: rcrach

I have sat and played with them and lucked up with something
I changed my user ID and the EPG is working great for now.
Hope this helps someone and i have violated any rules here by crossing from one forum to another.
I still don't know how to tell which channel provides the data for the EPG.
Can someone demystify this for me?
Thanks

ebo

12-28-06, 02:04 PM

I still don't know how to tell which channel provides the data for the EPG.
Can someone demystify this for me?
ThanksDocumented here, among other places:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6822936&&#post6822936

juancmjr

12-28-06, 06:47 PM

Micmel2 I made a mistake and said my 3410a had v1.17 firmware. It actually has v1.15. My diagnostics reports that my host channel is 0x5, whatever that is in hexadecimal notation, checked about 20 minutes ago as of this posting. Anyone explain or is it channel 5? In a previous post on this forum it was reported that 0x9 is hex notation for channel 9 which for us in the SF Bay Area would be the local PBS station KQED.

micmel2

12-28-06, 09:42 PM

I've actually seen both channel 5 and channel 9 as the host channel. The last time I checked, it was on channel 9. I tried to check just now, but my unit froze up, so I have to pull the plug, and force a download of the TVgos. Irritating to say the very least.

Jan J

12-29-06, 02:47 PM

some city's have a Primary and Secondary TV Guide V7 transmitters...

For example: Chicago
WFLD-TV Ch 32 is the Primary TVGuide V7 station
WLS-TV Ch 7 is the Secondary TVGuide V7 station

micmel2

12-30-06, 01:16 AM

I got my machine back in working order. I did a check on the host station, and it comes up channel 5. How do you know which is the primary and which is the secondary host station?

Jan J

12-30-06, 10:47 AM

I got my machine back in working order. I did a check on the host station, and it comes up channel 5. How do you know which is the primary and which is the secondary host station?

Call the station, ask for Director of Engineering's office, and ask them.

Every city is different, and once you find out, Post it here for others!

physicsguy52

12-31-06, 06:25 AM

I found out by accidentally disabling KRON channel 4 (analog) in the Cupertino Comcast area that it provides the EPG info. I was w/o EPG for a week. Then I re-enabled KRON analog (as Ch 4), changing away from its QAM-equivalent in the EPG listing (it's labeled "MyKron" there; not to be confused with KRON-HD), and the next day, I had my EPG back.

I always had PBS KQED 9 analog enabled. So it doesn't seem to be playing a role there. It looks like at least in my area, KRON 4 is it.

I've had similar problems as reported here with my 3410A degrading over the months (although it was never perfect). Slow QAM tuning (many seconds of no signal), occasional picture and sound glitches requiring me to unplug the unit, switching sponataneously between subchannels, etc. I bought it refurbed with 1.17 firmware. Whether it was really refurbed or just a return, who knows? I didn't buy directly from LG, but from some ebay refurb merchant.

My EyeTV500 digital tuner on a Mac is happy with my amplified cable, but with the LG, the signal is rarely much above 50%.