Phil,

I'm not planning to try it either, but I got the info from an LG Customer Service person at their 800 number. He said that power off for over 30 sec. woul require running complete Setup again.

Originally posted by Dan Kolton
Phil,

I'm not planning to try it either, but I got the info from an LG Customer Service person at their 800 number. He said that power off for over 30 sec. woul require running complete Setup again.

Well he is completely wrong. That is a totally untrue statement.

KornerKlub said:
Well he is completely wrong. That is a totally untrue statement.[/QUOTE]

Please tell us what is correct: what happens if power goes off for more than 30 sec. (like maybe even several days)?

Originally posted by Dan Kolton
KornerKlub said:
Well he is completely wrong. That is a totally untrue statement.

Please tell us what is correct: what happens if power goes off for more than 30 sec. (like maybe even several days)? [/QUOTE]

Well, when I got home, my power was off for at least 45 minutes unitl it came back on. Nothing was effected. If it were to be off for a matter of days, the only thing lost would be missing guide downloads.

UPDATE:!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a serious problem in the HD RGBHV output. When the unit is set to output RGBHV at 1080i the video level changes with changes in the total brightness level of the scene. Visibly it looks lke someone is adjusting the brightness control. Looks like crushed blacks to incredibly detailed picture. It happens consistentlly. No it is not my momitor. I alternated this 1080i feed with one from my 4DTV/HDD200 also set at 1080i. The latter feed had no level changes. Please check your units operating in this mode. I observed this problem on all the CBS programs on Feb. 24th 8-11. It did not matter whether a 4x3 SD commercial was being broadcast in the 1080i feed or a real HD program was being broadcast. I'll call LG in the morning. Please tell me more about the reason that the units were opened in Texas. Mine arrived with no double boxing. Did the changes made in Texas include anything having to do with what I reported? Were all units modified. Guys there's something really wrong here.

Is that happening on all channels, or just the CBS you described?

Yes on all the networks. I just happened to be watching CBS most of the night. BTW, I have a DWIN Transcanner and HD700 in mint condition. Just to make sure, I'm purchasing anothe breakout cable tomorrow to see whether there might be a problem with the cable. BTW does anyone know what signal is on pin 15 on the RGBHV 15 pin connector?

I don't have a cable box in my setup. I just plug the cable direct to the TV (and ReplayTV). I have heard that all the local HDTV stations are unscrambled in my area, so I would only need to get a cable box if I wanted HBO/Showtime or some other stations that are scrambled. I don't want any of the scrambled stuff, so if I tell the 3410 I have OTA and cable without a box (which is correct for my setup) will I still get the cable HDTV unscrambled stations in my guide? I hope a cable box isn't actually required to get cable quide info?

John


Originally posted by BenSanford
That's not consistent with my experience. I first hooked up with OTA & Cable - telling it that I had Cable without a Box. In that situation it got the info for the digital OTA stations (but not analog OTA info), and the info for analog cable. Then I told it I had a cable box, and then it got the Cable box guide info and dropped the analog cable info. The pain for me is that once I told it I had cable it insists that everything expect digital OTA comes thro the cable box - which is a pain.

I did not get mine in the guide, but they do come in. You will find them as you go channel by channel (basically after your regular cable ends, let's say 101-92). You may find additional channels by adding channels in the cadtv channel setup. And yes, tell it exactly what you have, you'll be ok.

Originally posted by MrHifi
UPDATE:!!!!!!!!!!!!

There's a serious problem in the HD RGBHV output.

This is not good news. I was ready to get one, and this sounds very bad. My main puorpose was to connect this to a CRT projector. Any reports from other FP CRT users are gladly welcome.

Has anyone here thought that the unit could support more than 1 HDD?

Has anyone successfully recorded QAM-256 cable HD?rough DVI

And, does the unit support the JVC D-VHS and facilitate D-VHS through it's DVI outputs?

Originally posted by mkerdman
..And, does the unit support the JVC D-VHS and facilitate D-VHS through it's DVI outputs? Yes it does.

Originally posted by jcg
I don't have a cable box in my setup. I just plug the cable direct to the TV (and ReplayTV). I have heard that all the local HDTV stations are unscrambled in my area, so I would only need to get a cable box if I wanted HBO/Showtime or some other stations that are scrambled. I don't want any of the scrambled stuff, so if I tell the 3410 I have OTA and cable without a box (which is correct for my setup) will I still get the cable HDTV unscrambled stations in my guide? I hope a cable box isn't actually required to get cable quide info?

John

The guide data (which networks included) is different for each market. The guide only shows the network icon and not the channel number, so you can "point" it to any channel you want. Also, there are often multiple listing for ABC, NBC, etc (you'll see them in the guide editing section to activate). This allows you to simply let the first ABC listing map to the analog station and then add another AC listing mapped to the digital.

I am just about to buy this recorder, but have a few questions which I didn't see in this thread fully answered(although with 14 pages, I might have missed it).

- What is the best price that folks are paying for this unit?(my local dealer asked me this question so that he could give me a good price on it)
- Can you set this unit up to JUST receive HDTV channels, and not analog or DTV channels from both your unscrampbled cable and OTA? Or, will it set up all the channels it can see and then require you to delete the 100 or so channels you don't want in the guide and in channel up/down?
- Has anyone reported not being able to get the guide when they just use OTA only?
- With almost all of my primary OTA HDTV stations multicasting, how does the quide handle that? Does it show 2 of the same listings(one HDTV and one upconverted analog)? What about the two stations where I have different listings for subchannels -1 and -2?
- It HAS been verified that you can offload the unit to the Mits 2000u DVHS via firewire.. right?
- Has anyone other than one person had problems with the RGBHV output at 1080i? Is anyone using it without problems?

That's all the questions I can think of right now... thanks for your help!

MrHiFi,
I was seeing something similar to what you were seeing, but only with NTSC material. Some stations would behave great but others would act very badly - as you said the brightness going from good detail to an almost 'solarized' look (crushed blacks?). However, other stations have been rock solid and I've never seen it on digital material.

I've recorderd and watched several hours of digital content (both SD and HD) over the RBG connection and not seen the problem. One thing you might try is to record stuff and see if this makes a difference.

I switch between a smaller FPTV that uses RBG input and a projector that uses the component output. I am now mainly using the using component output and never see the flickering or brightness changes I was seeing with the NTSC material.

merc:

I can only answer a few of your questions, so here it goes.

I have not seen this unit for less than $999--using a search on Google.

I can offload to a JVC 30000, don't know about the Mits.

My unit seems to work just fine using the VGA RGB connector to my plasma.

FYI, there seems to be a popping/audio dropout issue with some processors/receivers. If it is possible, I would suggest you purchase from a B&M store to ease return/replacement if required. Oops, you did say your local dealer, didn't you. Sorry.

Thanks kkoenning!

I currently get some dropout and popping(occasional lip sync too) on OTA HD via my Samsung T165 with our ABC-DT station. It seems to pop whenever one commercial stops and another starts almost as though the digital audio lock was lost. These problems only happen on ABC-DT though, so I assumed the problem was not the problem of my pre-pro?

Anyone else?

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Please tell us what is correct: what happens if power goes off for more than 30 sec. (like maybe even several days)?

Well, when I got home, my power was off for at least 45 minutes unitl it came back on. Nothing was effected. If it were to be off for a matter of days, the only thing lost would be missing guide downloads. [/B][/QUOTE]

KornerKlub,

Thanks for that VERY comforting information. I feel much better knowing that this is from a real situation, not theoretical. Knowing the history of our power company, I expect also to find out for myself rather soon.

Originally posted by PhillyC
jcg,

Here's what I've learned (I think) after much experimentation. Others here will correct me if I'm not quite right.

The 3410A asks you if you have cable - yes or no. If no, you can ONLY tune OTA channels and the Guide comes from OTA. If yes, you can tune OTA and cable and digital cable, and the Guide info for cable and OTA comes from cable. Confused yet?

In order to get Guide info when you have cable, you MUST connect your cable service and the 3410A in one of the three ways shown in the manual.

Now here's where I'm using my powers of deduction because I can't actually try some things until I switch to Comcast. I have a cable box with only RF out. It is only for unscrambling premium channels. I can bypass the box and watch all other cable channels. But --- bypassing the box gets NO Guide info. For some reason, it seems the Guide info can only be obtained when the signal comes through the cable box. It also appears that even if your cable box has an RF Loop Out, you MUST also connect the box's AV Out jacks to the AV1 In jacks on the 3410A in order to get Guide info.

Going back to your specific question, I had the box set for OTA only and got OTA Guide info. Then I switched to cable and lost all the OTA Guide info. (And, because I bypassed the cable box, could get no Guide whatsoever.) So I think you can just say yes to cable and you will get everything you need if you are hooked up properly.


I'm almost positive the guide info comes from Channel 11 in Chicago. Are you able to receive channel 11 without the cable box? Also, make sure you keep the number of active channels in the guide under 50. Anything greater, causes the update process to take longer.

Originally posted by 2muchtv
I'm almost positive the guide info comes from Channel 11 in Chicago. Are you able to receive channel 11 without the cable box? Also, make sure you keep the number of active channels in the guide under 50. Anything greater, causes the update process to take longer.

I'm set for OTA only and am getting the Guide OK now. I have just 8 channels in the Guide, but it looks like it will take a total of 5 days to catch up and fill in all the Guide info. KornerKlub explained the process earlier in this thread, and it is working exactly as he said it would.

Interestingly, last night my indoor antenna was positioned where it couldn't get a picture for channel 11 (PBS), but the Guide info was downloaded anyway. Maybe a signal too weak for a picture can still get Guide info?

Is the internal operation of the Guide download a big secret? It would be nice to know exactly how it's supposed to act and when and with what channel(s).

Yes, when I was set to cable, I could get channel 11 just fine. But no Guide. None. That's why I'm just going OTA until I switch to Comcast.

Originally posted by merc
I am just about to buy this recorder, but have a few questions which I didn't see in this thread fully answered(although with 14 pages, I might have missed it).

- What is the best price that folks are paying for this unit?(my local dealer asked me this question so that he could give me a good price on it)
- Can you set this unit up to JUST receive HDTV channels, and not analog or DTV channels from both your unscrampbled cable and OTA? Or, will it set up all the channels it can see and then require you to delete the 100 or so channels you don't want in the guide and in channel up/down?
- Has anyone reported not being able to get the guide when they just use OTA only?
- With almost all of my primary OTA HDTV stations multicasting, how does the quide handle that? Does it show 2 of the same listings(one HDTV and one upconverted analog)? What about the two stations where I have different listings for subchannels -1 and -2?
- It HAS been verified that you can offload the unit to the Mits 2000u DVHS via firewire.. right?
- Has anyone other than one person had problems with the RGBHV output at 1080i? Is anyone using it without problems?

That's all the questions I can think of right now... thanks for your help!

merc,

In answer to some of your questions:

My OTA only Guide works.

If you want only digital stations (OTA and cable), you will have a LOT of deleting to do. You can move the channels you want up to the top of the listings, but this process is cumbersome. You can't grab a tile and move it smoothly to the top. You need to click passed EACH tile above it. Terrible. (Unless I'm doing something wrong.)

The Guide shows only the main digital OTA channels, although the sub channels are present in channel memory. BTW, you can't delete individual sub channels from memory. It's all or nothing. I can't address this relative to cable channels at this time.

The Mits 2000 works well recording in BOTH directions. The picture is flawless. The only thing I noticed is that a program copied from D-VHS to the HDD will break up on FF during playback on the 3410A.

I called the LGE service center to report the random brightness level changes while watching through the RGBHV port in 1080i mode. The lady offered the following:

1. She had not heard of this problem with this box since it was so new. However, they had precisely that problem with the 520 STB's. On these the problems manifested themselves through the DVI port. Since both originate from the same source, she said some owners complained that the problem was visible in various output modes. She said if they were lucky the viewing mode selected was not the one with the problem. Others were exchanged.

2. The only thing they can do is swap out the box. It may take several weeks and maybe months to swap the unit because there are so few of them around.

3. I had to guarantee my swap out with a credit card. The'll send a new one and I will return mine.

4. She knew nothing about any routing through a place in Texas for modifications. Therefore, I assume my unit was opened by Value Electronics. Since no one has any in stock and all I had to do was respond to the dealer's message on here saying he had one for shipment, I wonder if someone returned it to them because of this defect. My last purchase from Value. It was not even double boxed.

5. Potential buyers beware. This is not a trivial issue. The brightness level changes are very annoying to say the least. The fact that LGE had this problem on their 520 STB makes me believe that there is a systemic design flaw or part failure issue. You would think someone would have caught it and fixed it.

Apologies in advance if these questions have been covered more than 17 times, but, the thread is huge:

Does the 3410 allow "Chasing Playback" - i.e. playback of a program while it is still in the record mode?

Also, does it have a Pause Buffer, and, does it have a time limit- i.e. 30 minutes; 1 hour etc.?

Can you watch a program from the HDD while teh unit is recording a live show?

Has anyone expanded the unit beyond 1 HDD?

Lastly, has anyone successfully recorded QAM 256 broadcasts?

Originally posted by MrHifi
I assume my unit was opened by Value Electronics. Since no one has any in stock and all I had to do was respond to the dealer's message on here saying he had one for shipment, I wonder if someone returned it to them because of this defect. My last purchase from Value. It was not even double boxed.


I also got my unit from Value Electronics. I had pre-ordered in January, so mine was in the first group that they shipped out from the 1st shipment - therefore I know that it wasn't a returned unit from someone else. My box had also been opened and re-sealed. I have no reason to suspect that Value Electronics was the one who opened it, since it was reported from others earlier that all of these units went thro a final quality control check in Texas. (the shipping address that Value had received it from was still readable, and it was a Texas address)

I haven't noticed the brightness issue you have, but I am using the HD component output rather than the RGB output. I do plan on using the DVI input when a decent DVI switch (with audio also) come available, so maybe I'll verify that I don't have a brightness problem with my DVI output on this unit.

OK, I have had my LST-3410a for about 2 weeks now.

Would I recommand it - I would say NO.

Does it work well - YES.

Love the TV guide and pause live TV for up to 12 hours if drive empty.

It does not have 2 tuners and I can live with that.

But why can I not play from the Hard Drive while I record another
program. I have a real problem with this option missing. It will
let you timeshift which is like recording a program and watching
another from the HD. But if I record on Wed. Star-Trek and want to
watch it on Thr. I cannot watch it until after I record Surv and CSI.
That blows!!! that I cannot at least play a program from the HD if
it will cross over the repeated set recorded programs. For example
if I started watching Star-Trek at 6:30pm then I must stop at 7:00
to let the unit record Surv and CSI. So, I guess you can record a
program at any time but cannot watch it when you want to. This is a
pain sinice I have a show or 2 each day to record. I guess I need to
just use it as a real time pause system and live with that. I'll need to
pause the system at 7:00pm thr for a half hour before i sit down to watch
Surv and CSI.

Since the price for the unit is $1000.00 I think that I would tell people
that they sould wait until a unit with this option and maybe 2 turns.

just my 2 cents
I'll check into the HD Tivo when it comes out.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
The "smart skip" is a little too smart. For example, if there is a conversation between two people and each person has a different background... then it will toggle between them. From my experience, if I wanted to scan past a commercial, I just x5 or x20 past it.

I use the Drag + 2 or 3 times to move over commercial and then use the
smart skip - to move back to the start of the program. Works well for me.

I'm waiting on delivery of my unit from Value Electronics, and the tracking originates from Texas. So, I'm thinking that the Texas part of this equation is a drop-ship origin.

I was thinking about this box, the good and the bad.

In my opinion the OTA performance through the antenna is Great. Tuner appears to be sensitive, and it locks in well on all of my local stations - both for the HD signal and the SD signal. And the Guide works well for the OTA stations.

However - when I connect to cable it's no longer great. The QAM decocer is useless since my Cox digital cable scrambles everything digital.

Without using the Cable box: It does pick up the analog cable - but telling the 3410 that I have analog cable (without a cable box) seems to take away the option to get analog OTA - the Guide wants to default to getting all of the SD broadcast information off the Cable input rather than giving me the option to get some of it off the OTA Antenna input. This seems to have been a design decision to "simplify" the setup for users, but I would much rather have greater flexibility.

When using the Cable box; Telling the 3410 that I am using the Cable box then defaults to getting EVERYTHING (except the OTA HD signals) off the cable box. It effectively disables both the co-ax antenna input and the co-ax cable input from receiving any SD information. Again, this seems to have been a design decision to "simplify' the setup for users, but I would prefer greater flexibility. Tuning the Damn Cable box (thru commands from the 3410 led cable box controller) works, but is very slow, and it gets confused when I try to rapidly scroll down channels from the Guide Screen. I also would prefer to get everything OTA as my 1st Option, and bypass the cable box for everything except things that are only available on Cable.

Also the lack of a capability to record HD off the Cable box is a pain. Maybe next year's model will have the capability to use a "smart card" that I'll have to buy from the Cable Company.

Hopefully I'm wrong on this lack of flexibility about bypassing the cable box, and someone can tell me a way around that limitation...

Has anyone attempted to use this PVR with Cox's cable system, I recall somewhere that Cox usually encripts, however I can not confirm that. I tried sending an email to Cox, but they only respond that they are compatible only with motorola, which doesn't really answer my question.

Don

Phil,
Thanks for the answers to most of my questions. Sounds like this unit is best used simply as an HD OTA recorder.

One more question which I'd guess has already been answered somewhere in this thread... Seems like all I can do if I only use this for OTA is to move the primary HD OTA channels up in the guide, and that's it? Will the hispanic OTA channels stay in channel up/down memory? Is there anyway whatsoever you can delete the hispanic channels from the box all together?

- Oh yeah, and has anyone paid less than MSRP for their unit?

Thanks!

Merc,
I think you can set them to an 'Off' status and they will not show up on your listing.

I think you can set them to an 'Off' status and they will not show up on your listing. Hyrax,
thanks for the info. That would really be great for those of us in the Houston area who don't speak Spanish. :)

What does your comment "Also the lack of a capability to record HD off the Cable box is a pain." mean? Are you saying you can't record HDTV channels that come in over cable? I thought the 3410 could definately do this along with recording HDTV off OTA?

John


Originally posted by BenSanford
I was thinking about this box, the good and the bad.

In my opinion the OTA performance through the antenna is Great. Tuner appears to be sensitive, and it locks in well on all of my local stations - both for the HD signal and the SD signal. And the Guide works well for the OTA stations.

However - when I connect to cable it's longer great. The QAM decocer is useless since my Cox digital cable scrambles everything digital.

Without using the Cable box: It does pick up the analog cable - but telling the 3410 that I have analog cable (without a cable box) seems to take away the option to get analog OTA - the Guide wants to default to getting all of the SD broadcast information off the Cable input rather than giving me the option to get some of it off the OTA Antenna input. This seems to have been a design decision to "simplify" the setup for users, but I would much rather have greater flexibility.

When using the Cable box; Telling the 3410 that I am using the Cable box then defaults to getting EVERYTHING (except the OTA HD signals) off the cable box. It effectively disables both the co-ax antenna input and the co-ax cable input from receiving any SD information. Again, this seems to have been a design decision to "simplify' the setup for users, but I would prefer greater flexibility. Tuning the Damn Cable box (thru commands from the 3410 led cable box controller) works, but is very slow, and it gets confused when I try to rapidly scroll down channels from the Guide Screen. I also would prefer to get everything OTA as my 1st Option, and bypass the cable box for everything except things that are only available on Cable.

Also the lack of a capability to record HD off the Cable box is a pain. Maybe next year's model will have the capability to use a "smart card" that I'll have to buy from the Cable Company.

Hopefully I'm wrong on this lack of flexibility about bypassing the cable box, and someone can tell me a way around that limitation...

I thought the 3410 could definately do this along with recording HDTV off OTA? I think he was referring to the cable systems which do not transmit "in the open" like mine here at TWC Houston. All their digital transmissions are done via scrambled and require a paid box for each HDTV in order to see those channels.

The 3410a only decodes, records and shows unscrambled ATSC OTA (always) transmissions and those very few cable providers who send the signal via unscrambled QAM signal...... YMMV. I hope that makes sense to you? Basically, anything that must come through your cable box to see on your HDTV ready TV, you can't record it on the 3410a either. YMMV.

Merc-
Basically, anything that must come through your cable box to see on your HDTV ready TV, you can't record it on the 3410a either.

I may be mistaken, but I believe that what you said is almost correct, but slightly off. The 3410a acts like a cable box [edit: for unscrambled signals], so it will decode digital cable signals. I don't believe any built in HDTV tuners will decode digital cable (but I could easily be wrong). So I believe you can watch stuff with the 3410a that you cannot see if you were to connect the cable directly to your HDTV.

As you said, what the 3410A will not do is descramble any signals. However, I believe that there are some cable boxes that allow you to send the descrambled signal out via their antenna out. If this is the case, these cable boxes will (or might) allow you to watch and record HD that comes through the cable box.

I hope this is clear - trying to figure out how to use this tuner is confusing at times.

may be mistaken, but I believe that what you said is almost correct, but slightly off. The 3410a acts like a cable box, so it will decode digital cable signals. I don't believe any built in HDTV tuners will decode digital cable (but I could easily be wrong). So I believe you can watch stuff with the 3410a that you cannot see on your HDTV. Nope... As I understand it, Sex in the City is probably scrambled, so the 3410 cannot decode it but your cable box can.
The 3410a can only decode unscrambled, in the clear, QAM cable signals.

Originally posted by jcg
What does your comment "Also the lack of a capability to record HD off the Cable box is a pain." mean? Are you saying you can't record HDTV channels that come in over cable? I thought the 3410 could definately do this along with recording HDTV off OTA?

John Once anything goes into the cable box, it then goes into the 3410 through the A/V 1 input. This is not a HD capable input. It is only for SD signals - so you can record stuff out of the cable box in SD but not HD. I could send the HD signals out of the cable box to the TV to watch HD, but I can't time-shift in HD from cable. The only HD stuff that Cox offers that I can't get off the my antenna instead is HBO - and of course that is scrambled.
If you are lucky enough to live in an area where the Cable company sends the HD stuff in the clear - then you could bypass the cable box and record it in HD with the 3410.

My guess is that next year when similar products with the CableCARD feature come out - we will finally be able to get rid of the damn cable boxes, and timeshift HD off the cable as well. Of course that means that I'll need to buy another unit.

Originally posted by merc


- Oh yeah, and has anyone paid less than MSRP for their unit?

Thanks!

Yep. Call 972-516-1849 and ask for Jim. Tell them Stanton sent you.
I've purchased several audio/video products from them (they're local to me) over the years.

I have no cable box. In fact, I only have basic cable. However, the only channel that m Comcast provide that I am unable to receive, and record, with the 3410 is HBO-HD.

If Comcast would provide me with a cable box that will output QAM on the RF, I would be able to record HBO-HD then. All it would take would be putting pressure on the cable company. They can have a cable box that will simply unscramble the QAM portion and pass it on the RF.

So has anyone else verified the brightness level annomaly via the RGBHV output. I think this is a big issue yet I'm not seeing any comments. As I mentioned before, LG-Zenith Service said they had this problem with the 520 STB.

Art -
I'm seeing the RGB problem on stations that are not 1080i. Right now my output is the same as the signal, so I am going to try to convert all of the the output to 1080i and see if it goes away. The problem may be my monitor, so I'm not ready to blame the 3410A at this point.

This is not really a problem for me because I use component all of the time for HD material.

Sorry if this question has been answered somewhere in this thread before, will the 3410a record to hard drive directly from a Sony IO digital box with firewire out to 3410a firewire?

Lon

merc-
You and I are saying the same thing, except that I am trying to make the point that all cable companies do not scramble all of their digital channels. I am able to watch many digital channels via the 3410A even though I do not have a cable box. The premium channels are scrambled, so the 3410A acts just like a cable box for me because I do not subscribe to the premium channels.

Originally posted by MrHifi
So has anyone else verified the brightness level annomaly via the RGBHV output. I think this is a big issue yet I'm not seeing any comments. As I mentioned before, LG-Zenith Service said they had this problem with the 520 STB.

I never heard of a RGB problem with the 520. In fact, I asked my contact with LG, and he knew nothing of a previous RGB problem with that unit. It sounds like the Customer Service agent you talked to was getting confused.

I just added a splitter to my antenna lead so I could look at my Sony 34XBR910 tuner next to the LST-3410A tuner in the pip windows. With OTA standard 480i in 4x3 ratio, the Sony PQ wins by a lot. Both brighter and better defined. Remember, these are simultaneously on the screen, and, thus, the screen is set at all of the same parameters such as "Standard", etc. Makes me wonder!

Originally posted by MrHifi
So has anyone else verified the brightness level anomaly via the RGBHV output. I think this is a big issue yet I'm not seeing any comments.

I spent a lot of time testing the RGB out today and it seems like there may be a problem if you let the 3410A change resolution according to the source. Everything is fine if I tell the 3410A to output a 720P or a 1080i signal to my monitor. If I use the Native, or Variable output options, I get rather bad results with 480P and 480i signals. What I've seen includes brightness levels are not consistent (flickering), when I leave a channel and come back the brightness level is different, blacks/dark blue saturates the screen, and such.

Before anyone condemns the 3410A for causing these problems I should mention that I've never used my monitor with any 480I or 480P source material over the RGB input. It could easily be something wrong with my monitor.

Anyone pay anything other than MSRP of $999?

My dealer specifically asked me what the best price I've seen on this unit, and although I could lie to him and say $799, I'd rather tell the truth?

Is that truth full retail price?

Dan,
Perhaps what you're seeing is the same thing I'm seeing with 480I & 480P signals. I'm suggesting that the 3410A may have a problem outputting 480 material. When I use the 3410A's 720P output what I see on my Sony monitor is obviously superior to what I get without the 3410A.

Has anyone tried contacting LG support about not being able to watch a recorded show while recording is going on? I wonder if they plan to fix this? I know this is a standard feature on Tivo and ReplayTV (as I have the latter), but I'm wondering if maybe due to the much higher bandwidth required to record HD stuff that the disk drive couldn't keep up with having to record and playback at the same time (as this takes 2x the bandwidth).


John

Originally posted by mstanl
OK, I have had my LST-3410a for about 2 weeks now.

Would I recommand it - I would say NO.

Does it work well - YES.

Love the TV guide and pause live TV for up to 12 hours if drive empty.

It does not have 2 tuners and I can live with that.

But why can I not play from the Hard Drive while I record another
program. I have a real problem with this option missing. It will
let you timeshift which is like recording a program and watching
another from the HD. But if I record on Wed. Star-Trek and want to
watch it on Thr. I cannot watch it until after I record Surv and CSI.
That blows!!! that I cannot at least play a program from the HD if
it will cross over the repeated set recorded programs. For example
if I started watching Star-Trek at 6:30pm then I must stop at 7:00
to let the unit record Surv and CSI. So, I guess you can record a
program at any time but cannot watch it when you want to. This is a
pain sinice I have a show or 2 each day to record. I guess I need to
just use it as a real time pause system and live with that. I'll need to
pause the system at 7:00pm thr for a half hour before i sit down to watch
Surv and CSI.

Since the price for the unit is $1000.00 I think that I would tell people
that they sould wait until a unit with this option and maybe 2 turns.

just my 2 cents
I'll check into the HD Tivo when it comes out.

Originally posted by Dan Kolton
I just added a splitter to my antenna lead so I could look at my Sony 34XBR910 tuner next to the LST-3410A tuner in the pip windows. With OTA standard 480i in 4x3 ratio, the Sony PQ wins by a lot. Both brighter and better defined. Remember, these are simultaneously on the screen, and, thus, the screen is set at all of the same parameters such as "Standard", etc. Makes me wonder!

This is not a valid way to compare the image quality. Sony does not use high quality electronics for all signals in the PIP mode.

A swap of the images might lead him to the same conclusion.

Originally posted by spike4
A swap of the images might lead him to the same conclusion.

Keep in mind though that one device (3410) might be getting a slightly weaker signal than the other. That would not be seen for HD channels due to the nature of HD, but would be seen on 480i.

Originally posted by jcg
Has anyone tried contacting LG support about not being able to watch a recorded show while recording is going on? I wonder if they plan to fix this? I know this is a standard feature on Tivo and ReplayTV (as I have the latter), but I'm wondering if maybe due to the much higher bandwidth required to record HD stuff that the disk drive couldn't keep up with having to record and playback at the same time (as this takes 2x the bandwidth).
John

There were several people on this board saying it couldn't be done because of the hardware requirements. But, since both DirecTV/Tivo and Dish have proven it can be done (record 2 streams, and watch a previously recorded show) I can only guess that

a. LG didn't know how to do it or
b. they wanted to get this out before anyone else.

Since zeinith allready had a HDPVR out I don't understand LG for NOT allowing to watch a previously recorded show while recording. I wanted one of these really bad along with the DirecTV HD recorder but with this serious limitation - NO WAY.

I don't understand why the pip comparison of direct antenna input to the Sony tuner to DVI input to the Sony from the 3410 would be invalid. I can swap the pictures and get the same results. The antenna inputs to the Sony and to the 3410 are from a splitter attached to a Silver Sensor, so how could the signal to the 3410 be weaker? I haven't tried using any output from the 3410 other than DVI, so I suppose that could make a difference if I used something else. I've been told that DVI is better than RGB.

Dan -
With my Sony monitor and with my 3410A I have found that the 480I (and 480P ?) output from the tuner does not look very good. It looks very, very good if I have the 3410A convert the signal to either 720P or 1080I. I've only seen this over the RGB output, but it may also happen over DVI.

When doing your PIP comparison, try using the 3410A so it outputs a 720P signal.

tomr -
Are you saying that I can go buy a Tivo/Replay box that will record and play back High Def material and has a Firewire out so you can archive the shows? Cool. I've got to check them out.

I wonder if DirectTV/Tivo can do it because they down rez the HDTV signal where as on OTA you get the full bandwidth HDTV signal. Of course cable down rez's the signal too, so the LG should at least be able to record/watch if the show was recorded off cable.

I know even on my ReplayTV if I'm watching/recording at the same time I see slight pauses in the video every now and again, so it must be right on the edge of being able to do this feature.

John

Originally posted by tomr
There were several people on this board saying it couldn't be done because of the hardware requirements. But, since both DirecTV/Tivo and Dish have proven it can be done (record 2 streams, and watch a previously recorded show) I can only guess that

a. LG didn't know how to do it or
b. they wanted to get this out before anyone else.

Since zeinith allready had a HDPVR out I don't understand LG for NOT allowing to watch a previously recorded show while recording. I wanted one of these really bad along with the DirecTV HD recorder but with this serious limitation - NO WAY.

Originally posted by tomr
There were several people on this board saying it couldn't be done because of the hardware requirements. But, since both DirecTV/Tivo and Dish have proven it can be done (record 2 streams, and watch a previously recorded show) I can only guess that

a. LG didn't know how to do it or
b. they wanted to get this out before anyone else.

Since zeinith allready had a HDPVR out I don't understand LG for NOT allowing to watch a previously recorded show while recording. I wanted one of these really bad along with the DirecTV HD recorder but with this serious limitation - NO WAY.

VERY serious limitation !!!!!!!!!

I would also say NO WAY....

Since you can timeshift with the unit, its not a hardware limit. I can pause, replay, FF amd RR a show that you are basically recording and reading from disk at the same time. I can only think that it is a limit of the software that LG programmed not hardware.

And I would say it was the b choice

b. they wanted to get this out before anyone else.

Ask your self if $1000 for a unit with this limitation, is worth it.

I myself will put it in my computer room and down load the recorded program to my PC to archive shows to DVD.

Also think about this if you start watching a show at 7:00 pm and timeshift it with pauses and replays, If you have a show setup to record at 8:00 pm then you had better be done with the 7:00 pm show before 8:00, else you will need to watch the end of 7:00 pm show later that day after the recording of the 8:00 show is finished. Do you start to see what a pain this is.

I guess I'm now looking for a new HD PVR unit.

I just got mine, last night. It's plugged in next to my PC at home, for now, until I can rewire things in the theater room, tonight. I let it scan for channels, and then download guide data over-night.

What I noticed, right off (I hope this wasn't already covered), is that the guide data for the digital stations is not mapped correctly. While it maps to the channel that I would tune on my cable box, it is not mapped to the actual digital xxx-xxx channel that the scan found. I'm happy because I was easily able to find the various network stations, but now I get to learn how to remap the guide station pointers.

Did I configure something incorrectly, or is this something that TV Guide needs to fix? It should be one or the other. I'm a geek, and don't mind figuring this stuff out, but most consumers will just want this to work.

--Mike

Originally posted by Hyrax
tomr -
Are you saying that I can go buy a Tivo/Replay box that will record and play back High Def material and has a Firewire out so you can archive the shows? Cool. I've got to check them out.

Don't know quite where you are comming from. Don't think I've ever said The HDDirecTivo has Firewire but I believe the Dish Network HD PVR has firewire.

My point being for $1000.00 watching a recorded show while recording another is not that much to ask for. As to HDDirecTV not having firewire that is a policy decision not a technical one.

I realize that some won't buy the HD DIrecTivo because of no firewire. I am expressing my disapointment in the 3410 not offering what I believe is a BASIC PVR function. VERY BASIC.

Dish unit has firewire, but it is not active (yet) and the unit itself is impossible to find :).

Why in the world can't anyone simply give us a two tuner HD Tivo/Replay with firewire output? What is the hold up here???

My point being for $1000.00 watching a recorded show while recording another is not that much to ask for. As to HDDirecTV not having firewire that is a policy decision not a technical one.

I realize that some won't buy the HD DIrecTivo because of no firewire. I am expressing my disapointment in the 3410 not offering what I believe is a BASIC PVR function. VERY BASIC.
I have paid the money for the 3410A, knowing that it suffers from this limitation. It's not my wisest purchase, but since I am unable to receive OTA digital signals, and I am unwilling to wait 5 more months for Comcast to roll-out HD PVRs in my area, it was my only option.

I just know that this shortcoming is going to bother me (I'm used to using DirecTivos with dual tuners and what was correctly described a basic PVR functionality), but I'm using another solution for SD, and this way I CAN timeshift HD.

In my book, watching a previously recorded show while recording another is far more important than firewire out (I'm not an archiver). As soon as anyone else comes out with even this basic feature, they're going to eat LG for lunch.

Originally posted by jcg
I wonder if DirectTV/Tivo can do it because they down rez the HDTV signal where as on OTA you get the full bandwidth HDTV signal.

John

I would say no since you can record TWO OTA signals at the same time. I don't think DirecTV is downrezing anything at the moment. They did petition the FCC to downrez the analog signal I think. I'm not positive about the FCC petition, I'll have to go read more about that topic in the other threads.

Tomr-
Sorry, I was gettng excited because I thought for a moment that someone had put everything required in one box. I've never looked at the Tivo HD offerings, so I thought you were saying that there was a Tivo box that had everything the 3410A had AND it would allow you to record one show and watch another at the same time. Now that would be something.

We seem to be on the opposite end of the 'what's important' spectrum.

For me the ability to archive HiDef is much, much more important than being able to watch a pre-recorded show while recording another.

Also the fact that you are talking DirecTV or Dish boxes is another major minus. I have no desire to pay $50 or more a month for their service. What they do to the movies shown on AMC and TCM is a crime. Lets just pretend that they charge you $80 a month for a full package, including the HDDirecTivo service. For this price you could afford to buy a second 3410A if you really needed the two at once stuff.

Tomr-
BTW, my opinion will probably change dramatically once football season starts. :)
It sounds like I'm excusing LG for not allowing recording while watching a previously recorded show. I'm really not. I just find that other things are currently more important to me.

Originally posted by Hyrax


We seem to be on the opposite end of the 'what's important' spectrum.



That's why we have a choice :D .

Until the "Perfect HD PVR" is built we will have to make sacrifices with our decisions. At least we do/will (RSN in the case of DirecTV) have choices.

Originally posted by tomr
There were several people on this board saying it couldn't be done because of the hardware requirements. But, since both DirecTV/Tivo and Dish have proven it can be done (record 2 streams, and watch a previously recorded show) I can only guess that

a. LG didn't know how to do it or
b. they wanted to get this out before anyone else.

Since zeinith allready had a HDPVR out I don't understand LG for NOT allowing to watch a previously recorded show while recording. I wanted one of these really bad along with the DirecTV HD recorder but with this serious limitation - NO WAY.


There is a third possibility:

c. They are trying to avoid the patent lawsuits that are currently being pursued against these TiVo type features.

Originally posted by LJG
Sorry if this question has been answered somewhere in this thread before, will the 3410a record to hard drive directly from a Sony IO digital box with firewire out to 3410a firewire?

Lon

Anyone?

I am astonished that no one in this thread is concerned about the brightness level changing issue. The machine is unwatchable through the RGB output. If i had it to do over I would never have purchased this piece of crap. LG's response so far has been that they have no replacement boxes, ( Service Center in Alabama) and from Korea, that they must speak to their Engineers before answering my inquiry. Here's what I sent and they replied.

There's a serious problem in the HD RGBHV output. When the unit is set to output RGBHV at 1080i the video level changes with changes in the total brightness level of the scene. Visibly it looks lke someone is adjusting the brightness control. Looks like crushed blacks to incredibly detailed picture. It happens consistentlly. No it is not my momitor. I alternated this 1080i feed with one from my 4DTV/HDD200 also set at 1080i. The latter feed had no level changes. Please check your units operating in this mode. I observed this problem on all the CBS programs on Feb. 24th 8-11. It did not matter whether a 4x3 SD commercial was being broadcast in the 1080i feed or a real HD program was being broadcast. I would like my unit exchanged for one that operates properly. Please call me ASAP.

-----------Reply to Customer Enquiry ------------
Great Company, Great People Dear Arthur, Thank you for inquiring of LG Electronics. Your e-mail has been received. Given the nature of your inquiry, it will require further research. Therefore, I will need to reach a consensus with our Engineering Department before I respond. Please note that your original e-mail will remain a top priority until a solution is found and this issue is closed. You can expect a response within the next 24 hours. We apologize for any inconvenience. Feel free to contact us if you have any additional questions or concerns. Thank you again for contacting LG Electronics. "Think the Best and One Team Spirit" = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Kim E-mail Administrator Customer Interactive Center LGEAI

It's now been over 24 hours and no reply.

Art-
It seems like you and I are the only ones who have used the RGB out. As I've said in earlire posts, I'm not having this problem with 1080i or 720P, my signal is rock solid brightness wise and looks very, very good at these resolutions. I'm sorry to hear you're having so much trouble - you'd think spending $1000 would get you something that pleases you and not somethng that cause so much trouble.

I don't have DirectTV HDTV, but from what I read on this forum there are some posts that say it is definately downrez'ed (same for cable). This is one of the main reasons I want to get OTA so I get full rez HDTV, buy have another question on the 3410. I know you can't record / watch at the same time, but what if I'm recording a show and want to watch it at the same time. Can I do this? At least this way I could start watching a 1 hr show 20 minutes into it (since there are 20 minutes per 1 hour show) and skip the commercials (which is my main concern). If this at least works I think I'm going to get the 3410 (my local dealer has 2 left). Of course if they can do this there is no reason they can't allow you to watch a recorded show while one is recording via a firmware update.

John

Originally posted by tomr
I would say no since you can record TWO OTA signals at the same time. I don't think DirecTV is downrezing anything at the moment. They did petition the FCC to downrez the analog signal I think. I'm not positive about the FCC petition, I'll have to go read more about that topic in the other threads.

The only way to do that would be to start Timeshift... and then come back and start watching after 20 minutes.

I have one of these on order and in advance of its arrival I've been reading the manual. I've been puzzled by all the references here to the use of a cable box with this unit. Why, I asked myself, would one use a cable box with this? I thought the whole point was that it tuned QAM digital cable and therefore that you would just plug the cable feed directly into the 3410A.

The answer, I now see, is twofold. The first reason is that you need to use the cable box to decode any scrambled SD signal. If that channel happens to be a digital one, that means that you're converting digital to analog, supplying that to the 3410A over a composite video connection (not even S-video, since the LG has no such input), and re-digitizing. Not good, but I guess it's unavoidable wirh scrambled signals.

But the other reason is implied by this line from the specs on p. 65:ATSC/NTSC RF inputs: Antenna(1), Cable TV(1) (NTSC, ATSC-8VSB over Terrestrial or Clear QAM over cable)This suggests that the cable tuner won't tune analog channels at all, even though the OTA tuner will. Thus in order to tune any analog cable channels (scrambled or not) you would need a cable box ot at least some sort of cable-RF-to-video converter.

Is this correct? Can someone with the 3410A confirm that this is the case?

Is there anyone here using an LST-3410A with Comcast in northern New Jersey?

I'm in Union County and I was wondering what unscrambled digital channels are available.

Is a subscription to the digital tier even necessary in order for those signals to reach your equipment? (I do subscribe to digital cable, so I won't find the answer to this by hooking up the 3410A.)

Originally posted by rrg
But the other reason is implied by this line from the specs on p. 65:This suggests that the cable tuner won't tune analog channels at all, even though the OTA tuner will. Thus in order to tune any analog cable channels (scrambled or not) you would need a cable box ot at least some sort of cable-RF-to-video converter.

Is this correct? Can someone with the 3410A confirm that this is the case?

I don't see your logic here. The ONLY reason you would need to use a cable box would be to UNSCRAMBLE any SCRAMBLED or PPV channels. The tuner will tune NTSC, as well as unscrambled QAM , both in the CATV band.

rrg,

The 3410A does tune analog cable channels. A channel scan will find analog cable, digital cable, and digital OTA channels. Others here report that you cannot tune analog OTA if you connect to cable.

Yes, scrambled cable channels would be handled as you said.

But the real purpose of the 3410A QAM tuner is to be able to bypass your cable box and receive all unscrambled analog and digital channels, including HD. Comcast in some areas does not scramble local HD channels and some others. I'll be switching to Comcast in the near future and my hope is that I can use the 3410A this way (as well as for OTA).

Right now, I'm strictly OTA, and it's excellent.

****

My question is whether the RF input to the 3410A (that bypasses the cable box) will allow you to download Guide info. Or if you MUST also connect via the AV1 composite inputs to get the Guide (which the manual seems to imply).

I know that sounds strange, but when I first got the box, I connected my cable (bypassing the box) and got NO Guide info. I couldn't try a composite connection, because my cable box only has RF. Maybe KornerKlub or someone else can answer this one. It may just be due to my crappy cableco.

rrg
"Is a subscription to the digital tier even necessary in order for those signals to reach your equipment? (I do subscribe to digital cable, so I won't find the answer to this by hooking up the 3410A.)"

No digital sub necessary to get clear qam channels that are within the range of the tuner in the unit.

Spike -
My cable company (Adelphia) put a filter on my line so that I only get their first 23 stations. They did this when I down graded my subscription to what they call Broadcast. It costs 9.50 a month. The filter eliminates most digital stations (but a few slip past it).

jcg -
They do allow you to time shift a show, and it does the things that you asked about pretty well. As to why they cannot translate this to watching a recorded show while taping another, who knows?

Philly

If you correctly setup the guide, it will receive guide info via cable. If you tell the guide that you have a cable box, then bypass it, you must tell the guide setup that you are not using a box.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
I don't see your logic here.The wording of the spec ("NTSC, ATSC-8VSB over Terrestrial or Clear QAM over cable") might be taken to mean that the only cable tuning is Clear QAM, and that the only NTSC tuning is via Terrestrial.

Admittedly it's ambiguous. I'm glad to hear that it tunes analog cable just fine (but disappointed to hear that it won't also tune analog OTA if configured for cable).

Hyrax, I have basic plus 1 premium channel, I get maybe 12-15 digital and I see maybe another 20 that are scrambled and come up as such. My guess is that the rest of the digital channels are out of the range of the 3410.

Has anyone experienced cases where the box just locks up? This has now happened to me twice. Once I was watching a recorded SD show, and I put it on pause while I went into another room to check something. I came back about 5 minutes later. The signal was still "paused," however it wouldn't come out of that mode. Play, pause again, etc. didn't get any response. Power off from the remote control did power off, and then power on brought the unit back up - but it was still in a frozen non-responsive mode. It took a power off by disconnecting the power cord to restore normal operations. I had the power disconnected for about 15 seconds, and when powered back up, the time was wrong (set to about 30 minutes earlier), and the channel mapping on the TV Guide was back to the default (before I had remapped it).

This happened again this morning while I was again remapping channels. I had decided to tell it that I don't have a cable box (even though I do), because operation with the damn box is such a pain, and I think I would rather manually tune the cable box to the few channels that I get through cable.

I could probably live with a very occasional freeze-up, but not if it causes me to have to re-map channels every time - because remapping is not as straightforward as it should be.

{edit} The time did reset from the guide a few minutes later after I had left the set powered off.

Ben -
I've had a couple of lockups where I had to power down. When I restart all is OK, however. My lockups appear to be when it is having trouble tuning in a digital channel. So far they are annoying, but no where near as bad as what you're describing.
What do you mean by 'remapping'? I find it rather simple, so I assume we're doing different things. although I wish they had a 'delete all' button.

Mine quit tonight. I have a spectacular pixelated light and color show. I believe that I was sold a defective unit that was returned to Value Electronics. This unit has had problems from the beginning as I described in this forum. I recommend that no one buy one of these. The dealer refuses to respond to my inquiries, the company says they have no replacement units. I'm betting there is a systemic problem. I also have a phenolic smell coming out of the right rear corner. Looks like I will have to deal through the credit card company to try to obtain some justice. What a crappy outfit. In over 40 years of purchasing HiFi and Video gear, I have never run into such indifference on the part of a dealer or a manufacturer.

Originally posted by MrHifi
...This unit has had problems from the beginning as I described in this forum. I recommend that no one buy one of these. The dealer refuses to respond to my inquiries, the company says they have no replacement units. I'm betting there is a systemic problem. ...

Sounds a little early to reach that conclusion. Mine is working fine except for audio problems that are partially my decoders fault as well.

I nly use mine to tune QAM HDTV from my comcast cable company, but it has been working without a glitch so far. I just wish they would get UPS and WGN in Hi-def!
Bes,
Chris

The pixelization stopped this morning and I was able to watch the 3 hours of recorded programs I tried to watch last night when it failed. The brightness level variance level is still there. I have noticed the audio dropout issue at least half a dozen times. My signal is in the good range so it is not a low signal problem.

Those of you who have no problem are not watching through the RGBHV connection, are you? Try watching it through there. I am waiting for a replacement unit to arrive.

I am using a Sanyo Z1 LCD projector and am not experiencing any issues whatsoever with brightness fluctuations on the RGBHV out.

In fact, the RGBHV out on this box provides the best HD PQ i have ever seen (granted I've only owned 2 other HD tuners though.)

MrHifi, sounds like you got a bum unit..

Originally posted by Hyrax
Dan,
Perhaps what you're seeing is the same thing I'm seeing with 480I & 480P signals. I'm suggesting that the 3410A may have a problem outputting 480 material. When I use the 3410A's 720P output what I see on my Sony monitor is obviously superior to what I get without the 3410A.

Hyrax,
I tried both 720p and 1080i. Either is preferable to letting the box select 480i, but neither is as good as the Sony when coming right off the splitter from the antenna.

Is anyone using the 3410 with a Sanyo Z2? I know there are issues with other LG products working with the Z2 over DVI (like the 3510A) so wondering if it was fixed on the 3410. My local dealer just got units in, and I'd like to verify that this works. Thanks.

John

Bump, Anyone?

John

Originally posted by jcg
Is anyone using the 3410 with a Sanyo Z2? I know there are issues with other LG products working with the Z2 over DVI (like the 3510A) so wondering if it was fixed on the 3410. My local dealer just got units in, and I'd like to verify that this works. Thanks.

John

ok... So I connected the unit to my computer monitor so I couild see the output of the unit at RGB with no rescaling. Picture from HD was just plain awesome. Tuned in channels as well as my DiSH 6000 and maybe even a little better on Fox.

Off Air in one direction I got
DC
NBC,ABC,CBS,Fox,Mhz,PBS

Recordings.
Hd recordings looked great from off air. I used the time slip; and also other comparisons and it looks exactly like what it live. No problems with break ups or drop outs.

TVGUIDE Turned unit off for about 5 hours in the middle of the day and it accuried the TVGuide Data. Kind of Cool. You can see programing for hours and hours in advance. My Dish 6000 always allowed this but it would take forever to get info for more than 3 hours ahead.

MAJOR GLITCH. You have to be watching the channel to get info about what is on or what will be on. BUMMER. Big step back in my opinion as I have always had browse on my DiSH network receivers.

Hooked it up to Starpower cable just to see what I would get. Tuned all SD channels between 1 and 99. Tuned in 135 as Cspan3 as a digital station. Did not find any other digital stations. Located FOX, NBC, CBS, ABC, and WETA HD stations. Then stragly it also picked up the digital music channels. Theye were all in the 158 or so register with each channel being a sub channel of 158. 158-1 -2 -3. Sd image was not that great over all.

Lost the ability to tune Local SD from antenna once cable was added to the mix.

Removed cable.

SD output of DiSH 6000 to HDD. Connected via VRL (Video Right Left). Box was set to scale image to 480 P and it did a damn fine job of it. Light on the aritfacts and not a lot of the various issues you get from doubling. Kind of content with the picture overall.

Can't watch one thing and record another. I have had sat for years so i am kind of used to this.

Can't watch playback of HDD while recording.

I could go on but that is a good deal of it for now.

The Way it lists recorded shows works pretty good. Abilities to FF Rew or time shift is pretty cool. Picture quality is 1st rate on HD.

PRICE. Now at $1000 it just doesn't work out so well. The 921 from DiSH would alow me to record and time shift from DiSH while watching something else. Plus it is a bigger HD and integrated. Now the big question... does the 921 work. If so... being $1000 for the 921. Its not a hard choice.

If this recorder were in the $500 range retail. I could see it doing a whole lot better.

Someone said you can watch a HDD show that you are recording. So if you start recording the program, and then start watching it 20 minutes later that this is OK (since there are 20 minutes of commercials to 1 hour of TV this would let you skip the commercials). Can you verify. Maybe you just can't watch a different recorded show, when another is recording?

John

Can't watch playback of HDD while recording.

My unit still has brightness level changes on the 1080i output. After 5 minutes it starts pixelating and makes the picture unwatchable. Tried putting an 18" fan on it to cool it down. Worked perfectly. Theres a temperature sensitivity issue here. Took away the fan and it went crazy. My unit is sitting on a table with no airflow restriction. Perhaps they should have included a muffin fan like many other systems with scalers and D/A converters. Yesterday after several more nasty calls to LGE Customer service, they said that a new unit was being mailed yesterday from Alabama. It has not arrived. The dealer meanwhile offered to exchange my unit after reading my comments here. Hope this thing resolves. This has to be my worse experience since 1972 when I carried my Teac 6010SL accross the country to California to have Teac put in a new Rell motor which was defective.

Originally posted by jcg
Someone said you can watch a HDD show that you are recording. So if you start recording the program, and then start watching it 20 minutes later that this is OK (since there are 20 minutes of commercials to 1 hour of TV this would let you skip the commercials). Can you verify.

You can do this only by use of the Timeshift button at the beginning of the program. Then you can go backward and forward at will while the program continues recording in real time. Unlike TiVo, the unit is not always automatically writing to a HDD buffer.

So are you saying if you want to do this you don't actually set the show to record. You have to be at the TV/3410 when the show starts and you hit this timeshift button, and then come back in 20 minutes to start watching the show?

I have ReplayTV and with that if a show is recording I can come in at any point and start watching it from the beginning. Anyways just trying to clarify how this works as I haven't gotten mine yet.

John

Originally posted by PhillyC
You can do this only by use of the Timeshift button at the beginning of the program. Then you can go backward and forward at will while the program continues recording in real time. Unlike TiVo, the unit is not always automatically writing to a HDD buffer.

I was thinking about this a bit more and all the problems with the 3510A are with the DVD player portion which is going to have to degotiate the HDCP with the Z2. With the 3410A when watching OTA or cable HD content is HDCP active? If not then this probably isn't an issue that folks would see unless the HD program cause the HDCP encryption flag (if that's how if works) to be active? Anyone know for sure?

John

Originally posted by jcg
Is anyone using the 3410 with a Sanyo Z2? I know there are issues with other LG products working with the Z2 over DVI (like the 3510A) so wondering if it was fixed on the 3410. My local dealer just got units in, and I'd like to verify that this works. Thanks.

John

Originally posted by MrHifi
My unit still has brightness level changes on the 1080i output. After 5 minutes it starts pixelating and makes the picture unwatchable. Tried putting an 18" fan on it to cool it down. Worked perfectly. Theres a temperature sensitivity issue here. Took away the fan and it went crazy. My unit is sitting on a table with no airflow restriction. Perhaps they should have included a muffin fan like many other systems with scalers and D/A converters.

Mine is INSIDE my cabinet (behind glass) with very little airflow and seems to work fine. I had this problem on my Sony HD-100, but it was known to run hot and shipped w/a fan (which I removed--but that's another story).
I have to think something else is going on there, unrelated to a heat issue (although it could be exaggerated by it).

Originally posted by jcg
So are you saying if you want to do this you don't actually set the show to record. You have to be at the TV/3410 when the show starts and you hit this timeshift button, and then come back in 20 minutes to start watching the show?
John

As previously mentioned, the unit does not DEFAULT keep a record buffer all the time; the "Timeshift" button does that. So, whenever you hit "Timeshift", it begins to buffer (like a Tivo) and you can go forward/backward in time until you hit stop/exit. In other words, you don't have to necessarily be there when the show starts, but you need to be there at some point to start the function.
I don't have a problem with this (it's still convenient), but it begs the question: if you can watch/record w/ "Timeshift", why can't you record/playback two DIFFERENT things?
I still love the unit.

Stanton -
THis is way off topic, but what sort of cabinet do you have? Adding my 3410A to my stuff is just one more little bright light shining back at me and I'd like to put all of it behind tinted glass.

Thanks

So when you hit timeshift I'm assuming it's still recording to the hard drive. So it just keeps going until the drive fills up or is there some cutoff before that. What if you hit timeshift and then a show that is set to record? Does the recorded show override the timeshift or do you get both of them?

John

Originally posted by Stanton
As previously mentioned, the unit does not DEFAULT keep a record buffer all the time; the "Timeshift" button does that. So, whenever you hit "Timeshift", it begins to buffer (like a Tivo) and you can go forward/backward in time until you hit stop/exit. In other words, you don't have to necessarily be there when the show starts, but you need to be there at some point to start the function.
I don't have a problem with this (it's still convenient), but it begs the question: if you can watch/record w/ "Timeshift", why can't you record/playback two DIFFERENT things?
I still love the unit.

It is my understanding that Timeshifting uses a one hour block of the HDD. After you are timeshifting for over an hour, only the most recent 60 minutes is available, and the rest is lost.

Edit: Interesting note, after timeshifting, I noticed that the available time does NOT change in the program list. That may have something to do with the fact that you can timeshift but not record while watching another recording.

I don't have the 3410A yet, but I have the Zenith HDR230. A lot of the recording/timeshifting features sound like they are at least as good on the LG as they are on the Zenith. But not being able to timeshift for more than an hour is a big letdown.

On the Zenith I am able to timeshift for more than an hour. When stop is pressed, only the last timeshift segment is saved. If one wants to save the whole recording (or a portion greater than the last segment), a "clip edit" can be performed whereby a starting and an ending position are specified. (Multiple such ranges can be specified.)

I used to use the timeshift feature for MNF; I used a macro on my remote to start the timeshift, and if I wouldn't get home by the time the game ended, another macro on the remote performed the clip edit. (Well, actually, the remote wasn't smart enough to know when the game ended; it performed the clip edit macro four hours after starting the timeshift.)

As with the LG, the Zenith also does not change the remaining available time while the timeshift function is in operation.

Someone on an HDR230 thread indicated having forgotten to turn off timeshift one night and the unit wound up erasing all the saved programs. Maybe LG now limits the timeshift to one hour to prevent such from occurring?

Edit:
"Clip edit" is the wrong name for the operation; it should be "Clip Record". The 3410A manual uses the same name for the operation. Also, from what others are saying below, maybe it is possible to timeshift for more than an hour - that's great news.

I wanted to time shift the oscars but chickened out due to the one hour thing. I used replay instead which really sucked compared to the HD feed.

Monday afternoon I tried the timeshift function for several hours until I came home again. It worked just as the zenith and put the time shifted programs on the "list" in 1 hour blocks. I was able to go to the beginning and blow straight through to the present live recording.

The manual says you can time shift until the drive is full and then supposedly it deletes the beginning of this timeshift session.

fwiw

Lew

Do you know what happens in the case where you are timeshifting and there is a show programmed to record. Does one take presidence over the other, or are both still recorded? Thanks.

John

Originally posted by lewlew
I wanted to time shift the oscars but chickened out due to the one hour thing. I used replay instead which really sucked compared to the HD feed.

Monday afternoon I tried the timeshift function for several hours until I came home again. It worked just as the zenith and put the time shifted programs on the "list" in 1 hour blocks. I was able to go to the beginning and blow straight through to the present live recording.

The manual says you can time shift until the drive is full and then supposedly it deletes the beginning of this timeshift session.

fwiw

Lew

Tried putting an 18" fan on it to cool it down. Worked perfectly. Theres a temperature sensitivity issue here. Took away the fan and it went crazy.

If you check out this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=367927) thread, it notes that the power supply cable runs across the main board voltage regulator and blocks the cooling fins!!

His simple fix was a zip cord to pull back the cable off the regulator. You might be having this problem.

Troy

OK, I have had my LST-3410a for only 2 weeks. Over the past 2 weeks
that unit would not power up all the way 4-5 times. I had to power down
and then power it on again. I think I lost a pre-programmed show because
of this problem. The last few times I had to power on and off many
times before it came up. On the first power up it did not receive any of
the HD stations, had to power off and on agin to fix that.

Ok, now last night it took me a half hour to power it up and when it did
the unit did not have HD stations and also told me that it did not have
a harddrive. It gave me a message to call service, which i did and they
are now going to swap the unit. Which will take ???? days. I'll let you
all know.

Originally posted by mstanl
OK, I have had my LST-3410a for only 2 weeks. Over the past 2 weeks
that unit would not power up all the way 4-5 times. I had to power down
and then power it on again. I think I lost a pre-programmed show because
of this problem. The last few times I had to power on and off many
times before it came up. On the first power up it did not receive any of
the HD stations, had to power off and on agin to fix that.


I have also been having a similar problem. Last night I had it set to record an off-the-aid HD show that was a couple of hours long. The LG didn't stop recording when the show ended, and recorded until the disk was full. It failed to power down, and was locked-up when I checked it this morning. The only remote control command it would accept was power off. Then when powering back up, it was still stuck - no hello message, and unresponsive to the remote control. A complete power off via the power cord was necessary to bring it back. This is probably the sixth or 7th time this has happened in two weeks use.

I called LG service, and they appears very cooperative about sending another one out that they said I should get next week sometime. My concern is whether I will get one that's working right, or another one with similar problems.

Glad I haven't done the larger HD swap yet. I'll probably wait until the warantee is out, and look for a deal on a 250 or 300GB drive during that period.

The unit works fine for OTA - when it's working. For me the cable capabilities are useless since Cox scrambles everything in their digital service, and the analog Cable signal is of less quality than the signals I can get off the air.

With apologies if this has been already discussed in this long thread, but, how have the results been in using the 3410 with D-VHS decks over the FireWire inputs and the DVI outputs.

In particular, how have the results been with the 169Time HDVR/AVX-1 and the JVC 30K/40K when played through the 3410 to the DVI output?

Does the unit display D-VHS tapes glitch-free over DVI?

I have both a 30000 and a 40000 connected through firewire. I am able to watch either but I cannot archive to the 40000. This is true even if the 40000 is the only unit on the chain. The manual does state that the only model "recommended" is the 30000.


Jim

Originally posted by sweeney
I have both a 30000 and a 40000 connected through firewire. I am able to watch either but I cannot archive to the 40000. This is true even if the 40000 is the only unit on the chain. The manual does state that the only model "recommended" is the 30000.


Jim

Jim,

Can you play a D-Theater tape throught the 3410's DVI ouputs?

What D-VHS related functions have you tried with your 30000 (i.e. record to/from archive/restore to/from? Are they artifact free?

When put in the Time Shift Mode, how long is the buffer and can you drag, pause, and navigate to any part of the buffer?

Can you change channels while in the Time Shift Mode?

Also, can you save the buffer?

Interesting on the 40000.
My Mits 2000U works perfect with it. Not sure on DVI though - I don't have anything to test on.

Paul

Originally posted by protsch
Interesting on the 40000.
My Mits 2000U works perfect with it. Not sure on DVI though - I don't have anything to test on.

Paul

Paul

I have been testing a friends 40K with 169Time 1394 STB and it produces some glitches.

I am getting a 30K to test tomorrow and from what I hear I may have better luck.

The 30K was built around the original JVC D-VHS Tape driver and seems to have been the one deck used by LG and others in their development of FireWire compatibility.

JVC changed something in the 40K that throws off equipment that identifies it as a 30K.

I hear the Mits plays back flawlessly.

I've had mine for a week, now. It's recorded one out of five shows that I've scheduled, and I have yet to see more than a couple of days of guide data at a time. Until turning on to record a show, earlier tonight, it had been off for two days (because it sure as hell didn't record the show scheduled for Wednesday night...), and I still don't have guide data for Saturday. I'm not sure if sporadic guide data is the issue (i.e. losing the guide data, so not recording a favorite), or what. Earlier tonight, it was supposed to record two shows back to back, and recorded only the second (the first show I've actually seen it record!). Other shows that I've designated for weekly recording have failed to record.

Others here seem to be having better luck, so I don't know if it's a subtly defective unit, a bad guide feed in my area, favorites vs. explicit time/date recording, or what, but for $999, I don't expect it to be too arcane. I was prepared to live with the limitations of a first to market device (QAM is the key, in my case), but I did expect it to work as advertised.

I'm so angry, I can barely type. I will be contacting the vendor to seek a refund.

--Mike

Llamas,

I have had trouble with favorites recording as well. Try just setting up a recording without using favorites. That has worked perfectly for me.

I am puzzled by favorites. What exactly are favorites? How are they different than shows you wish to record? We're not told anything useful about them in the user guide, and the guide never tells you anywhere that it will actually record favorites.

I have found that the easiest way by far to record anything is to use the VCR+ button and enter the number that appears in the TV Guide.

I've been away from this thread for a little while but now am reading from Mike that this unit doesn't do favorite recording either?

Can I look at the guide, read the show details and simply hit the remote's record button to get that program scheduled to record?

Finally, since this unit is dependent on using the locally transmitted guide data for recording, does LG have a full refund return policy for those of us who buy this unit and find that our local guide data is missing, wrong, or incomplete?

Originally posted by merc

Finally, since this unit is dependent on using the locally transmitted guide data for recording, does LG have a full refund return policy for those of us who buy this unit and find that our local guide data is missing, wrong, or incomplete?

merc,

Actually you can use the "VCR Plus+" button to setup manual future recordings. No guide data is needed to do these. Timeshift will still work with no guide data. Also, you can push the "rec/edit" button and start recording anytime without guide data.

Actually you can use the "VCR Plus+" button to setup manual future recordings. No guide data is needed to do these. Also, time shift will still work with no guide data.I think all my VCRs have VCR plus, but I don't think I've ever used it? Where do I go to see what episodes are on in order to use this VCR+? I already have a DVHS/T165 combo and so I can always record using the manual timer settings.

What I need is a ReplayTV type HD DVR which allows me and my wife to look at the guide, read the show details, and simply hit the record button in order to set the timer to record. Can you do that with the VCR+?

I could be wrong, but I believe that your favorite list has nothing to do with what you wish to record. The user manual didn't explain what favorites are, but I do not think it says it will record them. I believe it will just find them when they appear in the guide and mark them for you. The 3410A lets you then decide if you want to record them.

The benefit of this is that everytime Masterpiece Theater shows up when you download the guide it will be marked with a big red heart in the listing. This makes it easy to spot and decide if you want to record it.

I suspect everyone who has trouble with the way LG implmented recording has to forget what TIVO and ReplayTV do and think of this box as a VCR. I'm not a TIVO user (actually I rather dislike it), so I find the basic operation of the 3410A does make sense.

Originally posted by Hyrax
I am puzzled by favorites. What exactly are favorites? How are they different than shows you wish to record? We're not told anything useful about them in the user guide, and the guide never tells you anywhere that it will actually record favorites.

I have found that the easiest way by far to record anything is to use the VCR+ button and enter the number that appears in the TV Guide.

From what I can tell the favorites do not record but just tune to that station at that time. Favorites look to be different to me then record a
weekly program. From what I tested it would only turn on the unit and
set the station to the favorite, I guess so that if you are home you do not
forget the show. Dose not look like it records it. Must set the record to
record to harddrive.

Originally posted by mkerdman
When put in the Time Shift Mode, how long is the buffer and can you drag, pause, and navigate to any part of the buffer?

Can you change channels while in the Time Shift Mode?

Also, can you save the buffer?

From what I was able to to do you can pause, drag forward or back to any spot in the time line and also skip forward or back by content. I like the
drag because if you hit the drag+ down and up it will move about 1 minute
along the timeline.

You should be able to fill the hard drive with timeshift program but I think it brecks it up into 1 hour segements.

Hyrax said:"think of this box as a VCR"

This seems to be correct. I was scheduled to record a "Star Trek", but was concerned because it was preceeded by a basketball game. My experience is that sporting events often run over. I was assured by the dealer that the 3410 would compensate, because it is Program Guide based. Not so! The game ran over and the box recorded only the scheduled hour; ths included the end of the game and it cut off that amount of time at the end of "Star Trek". Beware! I could not have added time at the end to ensure getting what I wanted, because I had another recording scheduled at the end of the first. It just occured to me that, perhaps, the first recording was cut because of the second being scheduled, rather than the time. However, the first idea is the more plausible.

Dan -
I was assured by the dealer that the 3410 would compensate...
The 3410A is definitely a time based recording device and is not a 'show' based device. It would have stopped before the end of Star Trek even if you didn't have another show to record afterwards. The fact that the guide looks a bit like a Tivo seems to have confused people into thinking that it works like a Tivo.

It is an unfortunate fact that dealers don't always know their product. I was assured that the 3410A would output SD over the S-Video while recording HD. It doesn't. I had to decide if it was worth returning based on that incorrect info - and, although disappointed, I'm keeping it.

I went back and did more research before coming to work, this morning. I found what a few have posted above.

Favorites have NOTHING to do with recording. The box will change the channel automatically to WATCH a favorite, but recording is not part of the equation. A pointless and confusing feature on a DVR, but perhaps I'm just upset because it took me a week to figure this out.

Recording supports the same additional options that favorites does, so the frequency can be set to once, regularly (daily), and weekly.

The fact that favorites involves a frequency led me to believe that the record function was for one-off recording. Bad assumption on my part.

I knew the limitations of the box when I bought it, namely can't playback while recording. I found out about a few when the unit was already on its way to me; specifically the two power issues, power has to be off to receive guide data, and if you power off during a record, it kills the recording. And now I get to deal with steaming pile that is the Gemstar guide software. The power issues, when combined, are a major hassle. They may not have broken the deal for me, though, had I known. After all, I thought I had zero other choices for recording HD (I cannot receive OTA). The software just kills it for me, though. Other PVR/DVR manufacturers have had better solutions (full text search, first run/rerun filtering, etc.) for years, yet we get stuck with this crap on a $1000 piece of equipment. On a $5-$10/mo cable box, where I make no capital outlay, perhaps, but not on a retail device at this price point.

This will likely be the last LG product I buy, and without a doubt the last thing I buy that uses Gemstar.

--Mike

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I was assured by the dealer that the 3410 would compensate...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't have one yet, but your assessment is also bolstered by the fact that the guide is downloaded nightly, not updated on every event, according to other posts.

I would guess, based on this, that planned changes to the schedule are accomodated by the prior night's download of the guide. But unplanned changes, such as sporting event overruns, are not accomodated as you have learned.

I have been enjoying my 3410a for more than a week now. I find the EPG (Gemstart guide) very easy to use, and since I turn my unit off while I am sleeping, I have no problem with the method used to download the data. Maybe my happiness is because I came from a VCR instead of a TiVo, and so find this a big step step up. For the channels that do not show up in the guide (such as HD-Net Movies), I find it very easy to set the channel/date/time/duration for the recording; just press the VCR Plus+ button and set the data.

I did run into one "gotcha" related to the EPG data download though. When I changed the guide setup so that it mapped my local PBS station listing to my OTA digital signal instead of the cable analog signal, I lost the ability to receive the guide data. Seems kind of strange since it could still receive the cable analog signal, it just was no longer mapped to the guide PBS listing. No big deal for me though; I just reset the guide listing back to the analog signal. Of course this might have been coincidental.

One other comment on heat: This unit gets a bit warm (not hot) after running for a while. I noticed that it has vent slots in the bottom of the case, but air flow to those vents is poor since the unit's feet are so short. So I cut some 1" by 1" blocks of 3/4" wood, painted them black (to match my shelf), and placed one under each foot. This seems to have reduced the temperature (as felt on the top of the case) quite a bit. Might be worth a try for those seeing heat related problems.

Steve

Originally posted by fp4me
When I changed the guide setup so that it mapped my local PBS station listing to my OTA digital signal instead of the cable analog signal, I lost the ability to receive the guide data. Steve

Steve

Do, you need basic cable at a minimum to get EPG data, or, can you get the EPG data from an antenna receiving PBS Over the air?

Is PBS the sole re-transmitter of the TVGuide data stream?

PBS is not the sole transmitter og Gemstar. In fact, in most cities ABC will be the main carrier.

Originally posted by mkerdman
Steve

Do, you need basic cable at a minimum to get EPG data, or, can you get the EPG data from an antenna receiving PBS Over the air?

Is PBS the sole re-transmitter of the TVGuide data stream?

If I indicate that I only have OTA, then it picks up the EPG data from one of my OTA stations. But then the guide listing only shows the OTA digital and OTA analog stations, and the cable input is disabled. If I indicate that I have cable (without a cable box), then it only seems to get data from a cable station. In this case, the guide listing shows the cable stations (digital and analog) as well as the digital OTA stations.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
PBS is not the sole transmitter og Gemstar. In fact, in most cities ABC will be the main carrier.

Interesting. Do you know how to find out which stations are transmitting the guide data?

Originally posted by fp4me
Interesting. Do you know how to find out which stations are transmitting the guide data?

fp4me

Do the ATSC ABC stations also carry the EPG data?

Do the ATSC ABC stations also carry the EPG data?

Gemstar is carried on NTSC.

Originally posted by fp4me
If I indicate that I only have OTA, then it picks up the EPG data from one of my OTA stations. But then the guide listing only shows the OTA digital and OTA analog stations, and the cable input is disabled.

fp4me

Have you tested this by completely disconnecting the cable co. connection?

Can the 3410A act to control a D-VHS deck over FireWire by means of a scheduled timer recording of an "I" (iLink) input on the D-VHS deck rather than any channel from the 3410A itself?

I noticed that when I set the unit to record on the HD, it powers on when it is time to record but stays on after it is scheduled to finish recording and does not power off. Did I miss something on setting up to record, I'd hate to plan to record a week's of programming when I'm away for a week and leave the unit powered on continuously for 7 days. Any thoughts on this?
joe

Originally posted by mkerdman
fp4me

Have you tested this by completely disconnecting the cable co. connection?

Yes I have.

I'm on my second unit and this one still has the brightness level shift issue through the RGBHV output. It runs very warm. Also, the remote sensor has a very narrow field of view on this unit. I am sending the original unit to LGE as agreed. I have asked the dealer for a return on the replacement unit. There is a problem and it will not work correctly through the RGBHV output. I called LGE's tech support as instructed by LGE's cusstomer service. The fellow who answered told me they had never heard of such a problem and that they could not do anything for me. At this point, all i want is my money back. I am hoping Value Electronics will act reputably. I'll report back here.

Originally posted by fp4me
Yes I have.

Thanks

Originally posted by jlanzy
I noticed that when I set the unit to record on the HD, it powers on when it is time to record but stays on after it is scheduled to finish recording and does not power off. Did I miss something on setting up to record, I'd hate to plan to record a week's of programming when I'm away for a week and leave the unit powered on continuously for 7 days. Any thoughts on this?
joe

Automatic power off after scheduled recording will be done when the following conditions meet
- the unit power on for scheduled recording
- no key input during power on

If you press any keys when recording, the unit will not power off after scheduled recording.

Originally posted by thkim
Automatic power off after scheduled recording will be done when the following conditions meet
- the unit power on for scheduled recording
- no key input during power on

If you press any keys when recording, the unit will not power off after scheduled recording.

Thank you! I noticed my unit sometimes would not shut down after a timer record. Since it's so new, I've been fiddling a lot. During timer recordings I will sometimes check signal strength.

You've just saved me some time testing for this.

The 3410A has fortunately been performing very well for me. It seems that a couple of people here have received lemons and I hope that LG will stand by their product.

The only other complaints seem to be from those folks who wanted/expected TiVo type operation. Since TiVo functions were not intended, this is not a defect of the unit. It would appear that the 3410A is proving to be generally reliable, or we'd be hearing a whole lot more complaints.

My lst-3410a is performing well except for these issues:

1) the enclosure can occasionally vibrate or buzz. I just need to remove the cover and tweak the hard-drive mounting.

2) The DVI output can go blank. The audio still works. The first time it happened I had to unplug the unit to restore video. The second time a warm start restored video output.

I have a few more weeks to return to BB. Will call LG tech support in a couple days. Don't know if it's a HW or SW problem.

thkim,

Thanks for the help.

joe

Originally posted by scenic
My lst-3410a is performing well except for these issues:

1) the enclosure can occasionally vibrate or buzz. I just need to remove the cover and tweak the hard-drive mounting.

2) The DVI output can go blank. The audio still works. The first time it happened I had to unplug the unit to restore video. The second time a warm start restored video output.

I have a few more weeks to return to BB. Will call LG tech support in a couple days. Don't know if it's a HW or SW problem.

1) Make sure your shelf is level and all four feet of the 3410A are firmly planted.

2) I switched to DVI last week and have not experienced your problem.

Colors via DVI are slightly different than through component. Just different, not better or worse. I'm not sure which I like better.

Originally posted by PhillyC
1) Make sure your shelf is level and all four feet of the 3410A are firmly planted.

2) I switched to DVI last week and have not experienced your problem.

Colors via DVI are slightly different than through component. Just different, not better or worse. I'm not sure which I like better.

1) It's on a glass shelf so the feet are level. It seems to be getting quieter. So, I'll keep an eye on it.

2) I have several DTV channels with sub channels. The first time the dvi output went blank was on initial power-up in the morning. Cold start (un-plug power) was required to fix. The second time was when I tuned to ktwb-dt subchannel 2. Warm start (remote control power-cycle) fixed it this time.

I have a 42"Sony GWIII RP LCD monitor.

MrHifi
I'm on my second unit and this one still has the brightness level shift issue through the RGBHV output. It runs very warm. Also, the remote sensor has a very narrow field of view on this unit. I am sending the original unit to LGE as agreed. I have asked the dealer for a return on the replacement unit. There is a problem and it will not work correctly through the RGBHV output. I called LGE's tech support as instructed by LGE's cusstomer service. The fellow who answered told me they had never heard of such a problem and that they could not do anything for me. At this point, all i want is my money back. I am hoping Value Electronics will act reputably. I'll report back here.

Are you connecting directly to a display with a "VGA" cable or are you using a "VGA to RGBHV" adaptor cable? I have the 3410 connected using a "VGA" cable directly to a Fujitsu plasma and have not seen a brightness level shift.

It does run warmer than the LG LST-3100A that I had (There is a hard drive in there generating some heat.), but not as warm as the SAMSUNG SIR-T165.

I also found that the remote had to be "aimed" directly at the 3410. This problem went away when I programmed my MX-700 to control the 3410 and used the MX-700 instead of the 3410's remote.

<Are you connecting directly to a display with a "VGA" cable or are you using a "VGA to RGBHV" adaptor cable? >

I use a 15Pin VGA to 5 BNC cable. I have my DTC100 hooked up this way and an HDD200 with RGBHV using 5 video cables. These two work perfectly.

It does appear to be the remote. Pretty sad that they can not even get the remote right. I would like to hear from someone connecting this unit to a DWIN HD700 or any multisync Data grade CRT monitor.

Originally posted by kkoenning
I also found that the remote had to be "aimed" directly at the 3410. This problem went away when I programmed my MX-700 to control the 3410 and used the MX-700 instead of the 3410's remote.

Interesting. I also have the MX-700 and expected the results you got. But I found no substantial improvement, i.e. the 3410A is far less sensitive to remote commands than any other equipment I have. The MX-700's powerful signal improved operation of everything but the 3410A. I have a small table in the way, which does not bother anything but the LG box.

Did you use the .ccf file posted on remotecentral.com (as I did) or did you have the MX-700 learn commands from the LG remote?

There is some info at

http://www.vcrplus.com

There is a FAQ that answers a few useful questions and there is a forum that may answer more. I've not tried the forum yet.

Originally posted by PhillyC

Did you use the .ccf file posted on remotecentral.com (as I did) or did you have the MX-700 learn commands from the LG remote?

I used both since some of the commands in the .ccf file did not work for me.

I do agree that the 3410 is less sensitive to remote commands than other equipment, but the MX-700 is a noticeable improvement over the original remote.

The 3410 is MUCH better with my Pronto than my T165 was.

Can anyone compare the abilities and limitations of the FireWire implementation of the Samsung SIR-T165 and the LG LST-3410A when used with D-VHS decks only?

Also, is there a hard limitation on the 3410A where only a single D-VHS deck may be connected by FireWire, and, no other devices, not including an HDTV, can be in the "daisy chain" at all?

Lastly, has anyone viewed a D-Theater D-VHS tape over the DVI outputs of a 3410A?

Originally posted by kkoenning
Originally posted by PhillyC



I used both since some of the commands in the .ccf file did not work for me.

I do agree that the 3410 is less sensitive to remote commands than other equipment, but the MX-700 is a noticeable improvement over the original remote.

Thanks. Agreed. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

Originally posted by mkerdman
Can anyone compare the abilities and limitations of the FireWire implementation of the Samsung SIR-T165 and the LG LST-3410A when used with D-VHS decks only?

Also, is there a hard limitation on the 3410A where only a single D-VHS deck may be connected by FireWire, and, no other devices, not including an HDTV, can be in the "daisy chain" at all?

Lastly, has anyone viewed a D-Theater D-VHS tape over the DVI outputs of a 3410A?

The 3410A cannot control the D-VHS for timer recording. You can manually dump previously recorded material to and from each. Or manually record a "live" program to D-VHS.

I thought there might be a way to set a "favorite" on the 3410A and separately set the D-VHS to timer record from the firewire input, but this is not allowed (at least on the Mits 2000).

You cannot connect two of the SAME 1394 devices to the 3410A or daisy chain devices. Get the .pdf manual from the LGE site for details.

The 3410A and the T165 are built for completely different purposes. The 3410A is self-contained and can archive to D-VHS.

Originally posted by PhillyC
The 3410A and the T165 are built for completely different purposes. The 3410A is self-contained and can archive to D-VHS.

PhillyC

Sounds like you had/have a T165 yourself.

If so, have you viewed D-Theater tapes over the T65, or, is the Mits your only D-VHS device?

Your post infers you can hook up several similar and/or dissimilar 1394 devices to the T165 with good results- is that correct?

I am particulalry interested if the 3410A supports glitch free ayback of 169Time/JVC 30K made tapes, but, no one sems to have that combo and a 3410A too.

mkerdman,

I have two Mits 2000's , but no D-Theater machine. They were both connected to the T165 and worked OK. Of course, the T165 interface is terrible and he OTA tuner is way behind the 3410A performance. A/V dropouts were always a problem. On at least two OTA channels, there would be more droputs on tape playback than the same broadcast watched live.

You should know that I am confined to indoor antennas for OTA.

The 3410A has solved all of the above problems for me and doubled the number of OTA channels received.

If you insist on timer recording to tape, you need the T165, but I don't know why you would want to do this. You can use the 3410A and then archive to tape.

Can't address your D-Theater/JVC questions.

Originally posted by PhillyC
mkerdman,

I have two Mits 2000's , but no D-Theater machine. They were both connected to the T165 and worked OK.

If you insist on timer recording to tape, you need the T165, but I don't know why you would want to do this. You can use the 3410A and then archive to tape.

Can't address your D-Theater/JVC questions.

PhillyC

Does your 3410 control both of your Mits 2000's, or, only 1 at a time?

Are you using the DVI output, and if so, is it clean and artifact/error free?

I am clear after reading the 3410 and T165 manuals that neither can control a D-VHS timed recording of sources, such as other iLink inputs to the D-VHS deck, other than those channels tuned by the respective boxes.

Originally posted by mkerdman
Lastly, has anyone viewed a D-Theater D-VHS tape over the DVI outputs of a 3410A?

I tested the LST-3410A with D-Theater enabled D-VHS, for example JVC 3000U and 40000U.
It works (40000U is not included compatible device, but basic play operation is no problem), but you cannot copy D-VHS contents to HDD inside LST-3410A.
LST-3410A supports 5C copy protection.

Originally posted by thkim
I tested the LST-3410A with D-Theater enabled D-VHS, for example JVC 3000U and 40000U.
It works (40000U is not included compatible device, but basic play operation is no problem), but you cannot copy D-VHS contents to HDD inside LST-3410A.
LST-3410A supports 5C copy protection.

thkim

Were you able to support both decks, the JVC 30K and 40K, attached to the 3410 at the same time and select between them?

Someone wrote earlier that you could not have two of any one device, such as (2) JVC 30K's, connected to the 3410 at the same time.

I am still hoping to find someone with the 3410 and 169Time/30K to confirm that those tapes will play properly on the 3410.

Originally posted by mkerdman
PhillyC

Does your 3410 control both of your Mits 2000's, or, only 1 at a time?

Are you using the DVI output, and if so, is it clean and artifact/error free?


1) One at a time. You can connect only one D-VHS.

2) 1394 > DVI playback looks great (as does component).

Originally posted by PhillyC
1)

1394 > DVI playback looks great (as does component).


Is there much of a discernible difference between DVI and component?

Originally posted by thkim
....but you cannot copy D-VHS contents to HDD inside LST-3410A.
LST-3410A supports 5C copy protection.

You cannot copy D-Theater tapes, but you can copy OTA recordings. I just transfered Alias from D-VHS to the LST-3410A.

Originally posted by PhillyC
1) One at a time. You can connect only one D-VHS.

2) 1394 > DVI playback looks great (as does component).

PhillyC


The 3410 manual states that there can be a list of 1394 devices to select from, so, how there only be the ability to connect one D-VHS device?

Seperately, it would seem you could have two D-VHS decks connected to the 3410 and only one of the two powered up.

If I indicate that I only have OTA, then it picks up the EPG data from one of my OTA stations. But then the guide listing only shows the OTA digital and OTA analog stations, and the cable input is disabled. If I indicate that I have cable (without a cable box), then it only seems to get data from a cable station. In this case, the guide listing shows the cable stations (digital and analog) as well as the digital OTA stations.

fp4me,

My 3410 exhibits the same problems. I would occasionally like to record from cable or watch non-OTA channels through the 3410. However, it behaves much better if I tell it I do not have cable. When I DO set it up for cable, I have to use option 7 for cable systems, "no match found", then remap all channels. Then, when I turn it off, it downloads a new cable guide, which causes me to have to remap the channels AGAIN!

For now, I'm just manually programming and getting good results.

Jim

Originally posted by PhillyC

The 3410A has fortunately been performing very well for me. It seems that a couple of people here have received lemons and I hope that LG will stand by their product.

The only other complaints seem to be from those folks who wanted/expected TiVo type operation. Since TiVo functions were not intended, this is not a defect of the unit. It would appear that the 3410A is proving to be generally reliable, or we'd be hearing a whole lot more complaints.

Phil,
I didn't expect TiVo type operation and carefully researched what I thought this unit would do. Unfortunately the implementation and my experience has been less than ideal. I'm having a lock-up issue where I often have to unplug to get back to normal operations. I'm exchanging the unit and hopefully that is just a defect.

However, I had also expected to be able to use both the OTA tuner and the Cable tuner inputs (for the unscrambled signals). Unfortunately the unit has been set up to allow Cable - OR - OTA, but not for BOTH in a fully functional mode. My cable signal video quality is not as good at the local OTA signal. Therefore I would prefer to receive these OTA, and get other stuff off cable. Can more or less do this with the OTA stations that are HD, but if I tell the system I have Cable it disables the SD OTA tuner input, and defaults to only using the cable tuner input for SD. If I tell it I don't have cable then the cable input (and no guide) is useless.

Another problem - last night I had to unplug to get it back working. When It came back up, I wanted to instantly record something off the AV1 input that my cable box feeds into. It wouldn't let me do that, because the time wasn't set. It wouldn't let me set the time because it wanted to get the time from the guide, or it wanted me to delete a program previously scheduled to record. I couldn't get the guide to come up to delete anything scheduled, so finally unplugged the cables from my cable box and connected them into my old VCR!

Very frustrating - I really want this unit to work. Tuner is good, Guide if fine, operating like a VCR is fine with me, but the shortcomings are a pain. I'm hoping the exchanged unit I'm expecting won't have the lock-up problems I'm currently experiencing.

Unfortunately, I don't think I would recommend this unit.

I quickly read the FAQ at the VCRPLUS.COM site, and I think that this what is described as a 'cannot have both a cable box and OTA' limitation of the 3410A is in fact a limitation of VCR+. The VCR+ site does not exactly say it in those words, but I got the impression that you cannot setup Gemstar to download Guide data for both.

Originally posted by mkerdman
PhillyC


The 3410 manual states that there can be a list of 1394 devices to select from, so, how there only be the ability to connect one D-VHS device?

Seperately, it would seem you could have two D-VHS decks connected to the 3410 and only one of the two powered up.

This is explained in the manual.

Ben,

I have to believe that your lock-up trouble will disappear with a replacement unit, unless there is some unaccounted for interaction problem between the 3410A and your other equipment.

As to your other frustration, I was confused by your terminology. By "SD OTA", I think you mean analog OTA. To me, SD is Standard Definition digital (digital but not HD). So I think you are saying that when cable is selected, you cannot tune analog OTA channels. I never would have thought of this. Hyrax is probably right about this being a limitation of the Guide.

I'm strictly OTA HD right now, and the 3410A is a dream. But at the end of this month I'm switching to Comcast cable and will attempt to utilize both cable and HD OTA. I briefly tried to do this with my current cableco, and could not get ANY Guide data at all! So this might be an adventure for me, too. Fortunately, I have no interest in analog OTA with my limited indoor antennas.

The manual says you can set the time manually. But once you have Guide data, you cannot. I'm not sure why you couldn't record off AV1. I'd wait for your replacement unit before making yourself crazy.

I've already made up my mind that if I run into any trouble with cable, I will use the 3410A only for OTA HD, although I would at least like to be able to record the local HD channels I'll eventually get over cable.

Originally posted by Hyrax
I quickly read the FAQ at the VCRPLUS.COM site, and I think that this what is described as a 'cannot have both a cable box and OTA' limitation of the 3410A is in fact a limitation of VCR+. The VCR+ site does not exactly say it in those words, but I got the impression that you cannot setup Gemstar to download Guide data for both.

It does seem to be a limitation due to the way the guide is implemented. Once you tell the guide that you have cable (box or no box) - it assumes that the analog SD signals will be coming via cable, and doesn't allow you the option to tune to the analog SD off the antenna. Everything seems to work best for me (when it's working) to just tell it I don't have cable. Then I manually tune my cable box and manually set up to record off cable (of course SD only due to AV1 input limitations). Kind of kills off some of the nice features of the unit & guide operation.

Originally posted by PhillyC
I was confused by your terminology. By "SD OTA", I think you mean analog OTA. To me, SD is Standard Definition digital (digital but not HD). So I think you are saying that when cable is selected, you cannot tune analog OTA channels. I never would have thought of this. Hyrax is probably right about this being a limitation of the Guide.

Yes, that what I meant. When cable is selected, you cannot tune analog SD OTA, but you can tune HD ATSC signals off the air.

(QUOTE) But at the end of this month I'm switching to Comcast cable and will attempt to utilize both cable and HD OTA. ... I've already made up my mind that if I run into any trouble with cable, I will use the 3410A only for OTA HD, although I would at least like to be able to record the local HD channels I'll eventually get over cable.

Good luck with recording HD off cable. Somewhat depends on what your cable company does.

My cable co (Cox) seems to scramble everything digital - only the basic analog SD stuff is not scrambled. Therefore I would need to use their standard Box for the digital channels or their HD box to get the digital and the HD signals. Unfortunately the 3410 will only accept the SD video & audio inputs from the box. No component video inputs. Therefore you're out of luck if you want to record HD off Cable and must use a cable box.

Right now I just hope that the replacement unit won't have the lock-up problems that this one has.

Originally posted by PhillyC
This is explained in the manual.

PhillyC

You are correct as to the FireWire limitations of the 3410 per the user manual only (1) DVHS and (1) DV can be attached to the unit at any one time and no daisy chaining is supported.

Originally posted by BenSanford
Good luck with recording HD off cable. Somewhat depends on what your cable company does.

So far, Comcast in my area says they send the local HD channels in the clear (clear QAM). I won't know for sure until I can get HD --- around September. :(

Either way, my plan is to have the 3410A for OTA (and maybe clear QAM HD as a bonus), AND the cableco DVR (or CableCARD box such as the recently announced Sony) as tuner #2.

Good luck with your 3410A exchange. At least it should perform properly within it's own limitations. Let us know how it works out.

<Right now I just hope that the replacement unit won't have the lock-up problems that this one has.>

Ben,

My second unit exhibits the same brightness level anomaly that the first box demonstrated before it burned up. I have called my dealer, Value Electronics, several times to get a Return Authorization from them. They claim the owner is out of town and need to get his OK for a refund. I wish I had never bought this thing. It definitely seems to be operating "on the edge." Interestingly my RCA DTC100 works pefectly and the quality of the HD video is equivalent. The SD is nowhere near as good as the RCA. I am projecting on a 96" wide screen so unfortunately it is easy to pick up anomalies.

Art-
The SD is nowhere near as good as the RCA.

I don't have a DTC100 so I cannot compare the SD quality of the 3410A to it, so would you be kind enough to explain what you mean by the above? Is the relatively poor SD quality you're finding do to the flickering or is it due to something else?

I must say that compared to getting a strong, clean analog signal connected directly from my cable into the 3410A and scaled to 720P occasionally looks almost as good as a DVD when projected by my DLP projector on a 96" screen. I was really surprised with the quality of Shrek when they broadcast it a few weeks ago. If the quality of what I saw with that show is 'nowhere near as good as the DTC100', then the DTC must be awesome.

Not to say that I don't see low picture quality broadcasts. I have just assumed that the problems were with the station and not with the 3410A. Your experience would indicate that the problem may be with the 3410A. It would be nice to know how to tell the difference between the two sources of peoblems.

The difference in SD quality is mostly manifested as a clean picture without artifacts. Looks like the SD tuner is nowhere near as sensitive as the ATSC tuner. All of these issues do not come close to the brightness level gong up and down. LGE called this afternoon to say they were investigating and they would get back to me about a refund or a new unit.

Art -
Thanks for the resopnse. Perhaps what I saw in Shrek was the result of a really strong signal combined with a very clean transmission - in other words, ideal conditions. One would hope the 3410A would do well under ideal conditions!

I hope all goes well with you mission for a refund.

Originally posted by mkerdman
thkim

Were you able to support both decks, the JVC 30K and 40K, attached to the 3410 at the same time and select between them?

Someone wrote earlier that you could not have two of any one device, such as (2) JVC 30K's, connected to the 3410 at the same time.

I am still hoping to find someone with the 3410 and 169Time/30K to confirm that those tapes will play properly on the 3410.

Since LST-3410A does not support daisy chain connection, I should have select one device.

I can assure you that I have both a 30K and a 40K daisy chained with the capablility of first selecting then playing either . When I press the 1394 button, a selection panel is displayed allowing me to activate one or the other machine. After making the selection, the normal control panel is presented with the appropriate machine responding and playing back.

As I've mentioned previously, I can play back from either deck but can archive only to the 30K.

Jim

Originally posted by thkim
Since LST-3410A does not support daisy chain connection, I should not connect both.

thkim

From the stern warning in the manual I believe we can assume that the 1394 parameters are limited to 1 D-VHS and 1 DV camera from their list of supported devices, and, no daisy chaining.

If anything else works it's probably a fluke and unlikely at that.

This discounts the 169Time STB>AVX-1>D-VHS>3410 idea.

The Samsung T165 does work with the 169Time STB>AVX-1>D-VHS>3410 setup, although, it may have some latent artifacts with the current AVX-1 transport streams that would either not work at all or cause artifacts/blocking and pixilation.

Further, you said that the 40K was not entirely compatible, and, since the 30K is discontinued, the 1394 future of the 3410 without firmware updates, is limited.

Originally posted by sweeney
I can assure you that I have both a 30K and a 40K daisy chained with the capablility of first selecting then playing either . When I press the 1394 button, a selection panel is displayed allowing me to activate one or the other machine. After making the selection, the normal control panel is presented with the appropriate machine responding and playing back.

As I've mentioned previously, I can play back from either deck but can archive only to the 30K.

Jim

Jim,

That is very interesting as I am trying to determine whether the Samsung T165 or the LG 3410 is best suited for my needs.

Can you have them both powered up at the same time, see both on the menu and choose between them?

I take it the 40K plays back just fine over the 3410- is that correct. I have no interest in the archive function myslef as I have other equipment for OTA recording to DVHS and to HDD.

As I have written previously, I am most interested in which STB has the most robust 1394 implementation and the most stable decoders able to parse the 169Time AVX-1 HD files.

The hook-up of a 169Time system requires daisy chaining a 1394 Modified STB, a single purpose PC running a Linux program from CD, and the JVC 30K.

Maybe the 3410 user manual states it will not daisy chain only because it is intended to keep the tech support problems and device compatibility issues with 1394 to a minimum.

Further, I am very much interested in whether the Samsung T165 or the LG 3410 has the best PQ over DVI, both from DVHS and the OTA tuner.

mkerdman,

My LG has better PQ than my old T165.

Has anyone noticed lipsync problems?

Watching last week's HD West Wing drove me crazy. Now it seems to be cropping randomly in my recorded HD material. I'll try offloading a segment to a dvhs deck to see if the recorded stream is the problem, but if this continues, it's a showstopper for me.

Originally posted by orbitzboy
Has anyone noticed lipsync problems?

Watching last week's HD West Wing drove me crazy. Now it seems to be cropping randomly in my recorded HD material. I'll try offloading a segment to a dvhs deck to see if the recorded stream is the problem, but if this continues, it's a showstopper for me.

I've had intermittent lip sync problems for several months on NBC only. The problems range from very bad to minimal to none at all. This goes back to using the T165, so I don't think it has anything to do with the 3410A.

I thought it was my setup with dual combined indoor antennas (not sure if that's really a possibe cause), but maybe it's just NBC in Chicago. No one else seems to have mentioned this, though.

I was talking to the chief engineer for one of the stations here in Houston. He said they were having problems because they received the audio feed for HD over a different path than the video.

Ok, so what I have gotten from this thread is this:

1. This unit is a (vcr function) HDD HD DVR
2. This unit utilizes limited 1394 functionality to record to and play from D-VHS
3. This unit outputs a recorded or pass-through signal via 1394, comp, svid or
DVI at 720P or 1080i
4. This unit outputs commercial dvd playback at 720P or 1080i via DVI or Comp
5. This unit has a tuner and it can be used as a tuner/scaler.
6. This unit has everything the LST-3510A has plus HD DVR functions

Al-in-all it doesn't sound bad. It would be a big complement to a GWIII.

Where can you buy it for a fair price?

You left out the shortcomings (which you may or may not care about):

7. This unit cannot playback a previously recorded program while recording another.
8. This unit must be turned off to receive guide data.
9. This unit will cease recording if turned off during a scheduled recording.
10. 8 + 9 = pain in the ass when programming macros for your system.

I have to disagree about the T165 and AVX1 (169Time). My T165 hangs up (big time) if the AVX-1 is in the 1394 stream with a HM-DH30000U. If there is no active stream from the AVX-1, then everything is OK. Once the stream starts with the 30000U also active, then the Samsung hangs.

I'm hoping with a 1394 switch (on/off) that I can setup the 3410a to at least listen to the AVX-1 1394 output. Has anyone tried this yet?

EDIT: My following comments are completely wrong. All that is allowed is to watch a live show while dumping a recorded show to tape. See later messages in this thread

I believe that the 3410A will play back a program from a D-VHS deck via firewire while you're recording another program.

Don't get me wrong - the 'one at a time' ability of the 3410A is still a definite shortcoming in that you've got to shell out for a D-VHS machine and need to deal with tapes to be able to watch one HD program while recording another

Originally posted by alk3997
I have to disagree about the T165 and AVX1 (169Time). My T165 hangs up (big time) if the AVX-1 is in the 1394 stream with a HM-DH30000U. If there is no active stream from the AVX-1, then everything is OK. Once the stream starts with the 30000U also active, then the Samsung hangs.

I'm hoping with a 1394 switch (on/off) that I can setup the 3410a to at least listen to the AVX-1 1394 output. Has anyone tried this yet?

alk3997

Do you "glitch-free" results playing back your 169Time-AVX-1 made D-VHS tapes directly from the JVC 30K to the T165 and out it's DVI ports?

How about 3410?

Does the 3410 play as well with 169Time-AVX-1 files, or better than, the T165?

quote:
[Do you "glitch-free" results playing back your 169Time-AVX-1 made D-VHS tapes directly from the JVC 30K to the T165 and out it's DVI ports?

How about 3410?

Does the 3410 play as well with 169Time-AVX-1 files, or better than, the T165?]


MKerdman, I think you misunderstood my append. I'm pretty much asking the same thing. An AVX-1<->Samsung T165<->30000U daisy chain does not work properly in my system. The Samsung hangs. I have not tried the tape to DVI port output since I don't use the DVI. I'm sure that would work properly since all the tapes I've made are glitch free.

I don't know how the 3410a performs with the AVX-1 but was hoping someone had tried it. Anybody?????

Originally posted by alk3997
quote:
[Do you "glitch-free" results playing back your 169Time-AVX-1 made D-VHS tapes directly from the JVC 30K to the T165 and out it's DVI ports?

How about 3410?

Does the 3410 play as well with 169Time-AVX-1 files, or better than, the T165?]


MKerdman, I think you misunderstood my append. I'm pretty much asking the same thing. An AVX-1<->Samsung T165<->30000U daisy chain does not work properly in my system. The Samsung hangs. I have not tried the tape to DVI port output since I don't use the DVI. I'm sure that would work properly since all the tapes I've made are glitch free.

I don't know how the 3410a performs with the AVX-1 but was hoping someone had tried it. Anybody?????

Try it this way:

HDVR>AVX-1>JVC 30K>Samsung 30K- that should work.

Also, try it directly from the JVC 30K to the T165 with nothing else attached.

If you have one, please try the above with the LG LST-3410 and tell us what results.

Actually #4 & #6 are incorrect. The 3410A does not have a DVD player whereas the 3510A does, but the 3510A doesn't have HD record capability. Both units have an OTA/QAM HD tuner.

John

Originally posted by skeeter
Ok, so what I have gotten from this thread is this:

1. This unit is a (vcr function) HDD HD DVR
2. This unit utilizes limited 1394 functionality to record to and play from D-VHS
3. This unit outputs a recorded or pass-through signal via 1394, comp, svid or
DVI at 720P or 1080i
4. This unit outputs commercial dvd playback at 720P or 1080i via DVI or Comp
5. This unit has a tuner and it can be used as a tuner/scaler.
6. This unit has everything the LST-3510A has plus HD DVR functions

Al-in-all it doesn't sound bad. It would be a big complement to a GWIII.

Where can you buy it for a fair price?

I special ordered my 3410a at Best Buy for $999. So far it's the only brick and mortar location in Manhattan that sells this beauty.

I have used this unit for a week and discovered three short comings:
1. You can turn off the unit, even while its recording.
2. The tuner is less sensitive than its predecessor, the Zenith HDR 230. I cannot pickup a distant station that the 230 picks up with some minor breakups, whereas the 3410a shows a signal in the mud. Perhaps its because the 3410A has a combo analog and digital tuner? CORRECTION - User Error: The channel I selecting was not mapped properly. To watch channel 50.1 you have to select 51.1. Corrected this when I read the solution in a later post in this thread.
3. The unit does not output simultaneous video from the s-video, composite and RGB outputs. This would have been useful for monitoring purposes.

Despite these deficiencies, I still think its a great step forward for HD. LG is a good company. They exchanged my unit at no cost to me. I wanted to verify if I had a defective tuner, but the replacement 3410a worked identical to my original unit.

Originally posted by Hyrax
Llamas -
Your first point was covered by Skeeter's statement that the 3410A acts like a VCR. However, I beleive that the 3410A will play back a program from a D-VHS deck via firewire while you're recording another program. If I am correct (I do not have a D-VHS deck yet to test this functionality), this does lessen the impact of the 'one at a time' shortcoming.

Don't get me wrong - the 'one at a time' ability of the 3410A is still a definite shortcoming in that you've got to shell out for a D-VHS machine and need to deal with tapes to be able to watch one HD program while recording another.

I had the 1394 engaged to watch a D-Theater tape on JVC 30K and when I tried to set the timer to record an OTA program via VCR+ a pop up appeared stating that the 1394 was active and no recording could be scheduled. That's a bust.

joe

I had the 1394 engaged to watch a D-Theater tape on JVC 30K and when I tried to set the timer to record an OTA program via VCR+ a pop up appeared stating that the 1394 was active and no recording could be scheduled. That's a bust.

Joe -
That is bad news. I'm sure that I was told you could do that. Maybe I got it confused with something else. I'll have to check it out.

Thanks

Originally posted by Hyrax
Joe -
That is dad news. I'm sure that I was told you could do that. Maybe I got it confused with something else. I'll have to check it out.

Thanks

You can dump a previously recorded program from the HDD to D-VHS while watching a live TV broadcast. That's it.

Phil -
Can you timeshift while dumping to D-VHS?
Thanks

Can you go the other way - from dvhs to 3410?

Phil -
You're using a Mits 2000, right? Would it be worth while using one of those instead of a JVC 3000 if I don't have a Mits TV? I can buy a Mits 2000 for $200, but I like the fact that the JVC can play directly w/o going thru the 3410A. I believe that Mits in general has vastly superior build quality than JVC, so I'm trying to weigh the pros & cons.

Originally posted by Hyrax
Phil -
Can you timeshift while dumping to D-VHS?
Thanks

I have not tried this (yet).

Originally posted by orbitzboy
Can you go the other way - from dvhs to 3410?

You can record from D-VHS to the 3410A HDD. I don't know if you can watch a live program at the same time.

Originally posted by Hyrax
Phil -
You're using a Mits 2000, right? Would it be worth while using one of those instead of a JVC 3000 if I don't have a Mits TV? I can buy a Mits 2000 for $200, but I like the fact that the JVC can play directly w/o going thru the 3410A. I believe that Mits in general has vastly superior build quality than JVC, so I'm trying to weigh the pros & cons.

I have no experience with the JVC, but I can tell you my two Mits 2000's have performed perfectly. They were used originally in conjunction with the T165. Now, they can be used for archiving to D-VHS from the 3410A HDD. (You can't control the D-VHS for timer recording through the LG.) Yes, it would be nice to have component outs for direct playback, but the trade off is that you avoid ALL the problems of the JVC's that have been raged over in these forums.

As a bonus, The Mits does a great job of recording S-Video from your analog cable channels.

A year ago, the Mits cost me $500 each. $200 is a steal.

Phil -
ALL those JVC problems are a bit scary. I went through a number of JVC S-VHS VCR decks a few years ago before I discovered how much better Mits build quality is. I'm reluctant to give JVC another try.

Thanks again.

Phil, Hyrax

I have had the JVC 30K for almost 2 years and have used it for recording/playback at about 2hrs per day, and so far no problems. I have about 10 DTheater tapes that play perfectly except an occasional pixelation. I too would not have bought the 30K at the time if all the problems that were eventually coming in on the forum I read before considering buying it. The 40K seems to have much less complaints but there has been an issue with it and the firewire support from the LG. If that is only a specific unit's problem, then the 40K would be reasonable, although I doubt you can get it for less than $500. The D Theater movie quality is much better HD than any OTA HD broadcasts I've seen so far. I've not watched any live sports or Letterman in HD.
joe

For those who asked:

1) You can dump to D-VHS while watching a different live program, but you cannot timeshift while doing this.

2) If recording from D-VHS to the 3410A HDD, you cannot watch a different program (live or recorded).

Phil -
Thanks for checking. At least the 3410A is consistant in this one program at a time behavior.

I am now waiting for my 3rd unit. First two had defects as I noted here. This will be my last try. After this I will ask for a refund. I love the unit too. That's what is so sad. If only this brightness thing would go away. Can't help thinking it has something to do with the Skip function which seems to key on brightness level changes to select how far to skip. It should not change brightness level in finite very visible steps while watching playbackor a broadcast at 1080i. S and composite do not show the anomaly only VGA.

For anyone who owns a Mac and is interested in one of these units ...

I hooked up my 3410A to my Apple G4 via a 4-pin to 6-pin firewire cable and the 3410A immediately recognized the firewire connection as "Apple Computer".

Running VirtualDVHS I am able to record live content or HDD stored content, AND I can play it back to the 3410A. The one problem I have though, is that I cannot monitor the content when I dub from the HDD. When I select DVHS from a recorded show on the Program List and then select the on-screen record button, the 3410A streams the selected content out just fine, but it reverts back to displaying live programming, instead of displaying the recorded show that I selected. ??? This makes no sense to me.

This may just be a problem with connections to Apple Computers. I do not have a DVHS VCR to compare to. Overall, I'm rather happy with this LG product. Finally being able to time-shift HDTV(even if it is only OTA) and then archive it to my Mac, has been well worth the investment to me.

Stephen

Originally posted by jlanzy
I have about 10 DTheater tapes that play perfectly except an occasional pixelation. joe

Joe,

Where do you buy your D-Theater tapes?

My LST-3410A arrived a few days ago and I've had only a little time to play with it so far.

With the 300GB Maxtor drive recommended by Value Electronics, the unit shows "31:55" as the HD recording capacity when empty, which is comfortable even though not huge.

I was pleased to discover that my cable system (Comcast of Union County, NJ) does provide a number of unscrambled digital channels that the 3410A is able to tune.

But there's a big problem.

My cable system is HRC, and always has been for as long as I've had devices that cared about tuning the analog cable channels. When I tell the LG's "EZ Scan" to tune cable as HRC, it finds all the analog cable channels but no digital channels at all.

On a hunch I had it scan as STD instead of HRC. This time it found several digital channels but none of the analog ones.

If I leave the setting (i.e., the last "EZ Scan" done) on HRC, the unit can tune all the analog cable channels perfectly, and receives all the guide information for the cable system, but is unable to tune any of the QAM digitals. It finds none of them in a scan, nor does it ever find them if I patiently try to tune them manually using the "Ch Edit" menu.

If I leave the setting on STD, it finds the cable digitals (some with difficulty--there may be a signal strength issue) but no analog channels, and in particular there's no program guide because (presumably) the Gemstar data is sent on one of the analog channels that I can't receive.

It seems that I have to choose between using this unit for manual-only recordings of digital channels (OTA and cable), or using it as a recorder for analog cable and digital OTA together with the program guide. There doesn't seem to be any way of having the unit use HRC for analog cable but STD for digital cable.

The HD recording capability coupled with 1394 makes this unit invaluable, so I don't want to give it up. But as a PVR it has deficiencies already described at length in this thread, and it has so many lame idiosyncrasies that it's disappointing and slightly creepy.

Value Electronics left me hanging with a defective unit. If they're telling you to install a 300GB hard drive make sure you get them to sign an after sale contract that they will take it back-- if. like mine, it fails. Personally, I will never buy from them again.

Originally posted by knightingale
When I select DVHS from a recorded show on the Program List and then select the on-screen record button, the 3410A streams the selected content out just fine, but it reverts back to displaying live programming, instead of displaying the recorded show that I selected. ??? This makes no sense to me.

This may just be a problem with connections to Apple Computers. I do not have a DVHS VCR to compare to.

Stephen

Actually it's meant to work this way. You can dump to D-VHS while watching a live program. This is about the only time this unit can do two things at once, and others consider this a good feature.

True, you can't edit the dump, but you can do that on the HDD before sending to D-VHS (or Apple).

What is HRC mean? I have Comcast in N. CA and how would I find out if mine is HRC? I'm waiting for the next batch of 3410s to come in, and was hoping to get digital and analog cable channels.

John

Originally posted by rrg
My LST-3410A arrived a few days ago and I've had only a little time to play with it so far.

With the 300GB Maxtor drive recommended by Value Electronics, the unit shows "31:55" as the HD recording capacity when empty, which is comfortable even though not huge.

I was pleased to discover that my cable system (Comcast of Union County, NJ) does provide a number of unscrambled digital channels that the 3410A is able to tune.

But there's a big problem.

My cable system is HRC, and always has been for as long as I've had devices that cared about tuning the analog cable channels. When I tell the LG's "EZ Scan" to tune cable as HRC, it finds all the analog cable channels but no digital channels at all.

On a hunch I had it scan as STD instead of HRC. This time it found several digital channels but none of the analog ones.

If I leave the setting (i.e., the last "EZ Scan" done) on HRC, the unit can tune all the analog cable channels perfectly, and receives all the guide information for the cable system, but is unable to tune any of the QAM digitals. It finds none of them in a scan, nor does it ever find them if I patiently try to tune them manually using the "Ch Edit" menu.

If I leave the setting on STD, it finds the cable digitals (some with difficulty--there may be a signal strength issue) but no analog channels, and in particular there's no program guide because (presumably) the Gemstar data is sent on one of the analog channels that I can't receive.

It seems that I have to choose between using this unit for manual-only recordings of digital channels (OTA and cable), or using it as a recorder for analog cable and digital OTA together with the program guide. There doesn't seem to be any way of having the unit use HRC for analog cable but STD for digital cable.

The HD recording capability coupled with 1394 makes this unit invaluable, so I don't want to give it up. But as a PVR it has deficiencies already described at length in this thread, and it has so many lame idiosyncrasies that it's disappointing and slightly creepy.

Murray ,

I sent you a PM.

joe

HRC is "Harmonically Related Carrier" and essentially means that the cable channel frequencies are slightly offset from the "standard" frequencies previously in use in the cable industry. I'm not a signal-processing guy but I gather that the frequencies chosen for HRC will tend to minimize certain types of visible distortions that are more likely to occur (in analog video) with the standard frequencies. Something like that, anyway.

A cable system is likely to be one of STD, HRC, or IRC (Incrementally Related Carrier) which is pretty much the same as STD for most channels. I'm not sure how to tell what yours is. In the old days (10-15 years ago) some VCRs would come with a three-position switch that you used to choose the cable channel scheme, and you would just try them all to see what worked best with the VCR's tuner. You could call the cable company and ask, I suppose.

I'm still hoping that someone here will point out something obvious that I've missed, or come up with some other workaround for this problem. I'm still puzzled by the tuning behavior that I've seen.

Murray was asking about use of the 3410A with recordings made using a 169Time/AVX1 device. This afternoon I dubbed to the 3410A a movie that had been recorded to D-VHS from HBO-HD on C-band using the 169Time-modified HDD-200 decoder and the AVX1. I've only spot-checked the dub on the LG but so far it looks perfect, no glitching, pixellation, distortion, or other decoding problems that I could see.

I haven't tried this yet with recordings sourced from the 169Time-modified DTC-100. Until I do I wouldn't assume that they'll necessarily work just because the C-band recording did. The C-band is the "master" feed; the bitstream uplinked by DirecTV (after decoding, re-encoding, and stat-multiplexing) is certainly different and might not behave the same way.

Originally posted by rrg
Murray was asking about use of the 3410A with recordings made using a 169Time/AVX1 device. This afternoon I dubbed to the 3410A a movie that had been recorded to D-VHS from HBO-HD on C-band using the 169Time-modified HDD-200 decoder and the AVX1. I've only spot-checked the dub on the LG but so far it looks perfect, no glitching, pixellation, distortion, or other decoding problems that I could see.

I haven't tried this yet with recordings sourced from the 169Time-modified DTC-100. Until I do I wouldn't assume that they'll necessarily work just because the C-band recording did. The C-band is the "master" feed; the bitstream uplinked by DirecTV (after decoding, re-encoding, and stat-multiplexing) is certainly different and might not behave the same way.

Ron

That's very interesting.

Pleasse do try playing a recording from your D-VHS over FireWire with both your DTC-100 and AVX-1 attahched AVX-1>DTC-100>JVC 30K>3410, and, let us know how it works.

Also, if you time try to dub to the 3410A a movie that had been recorded to D-VHS from HBO-HD on DirecTV, and, let us know how it works too.

Ron, have you been able to get the 3410a to record directly from an HDD-200/AVX-1 stream? I have not been successful. I have no doubt that he 3410a will record any valid stream sent by the 30000U, but I would prefer to go directly from the HDD-200 and eliminate the 30000U middle-man.

I've tried the
AVX-1<-->HDD-200<-->3410a connection path
and the
AVX-1<-->3410a<-->HDD-200 connection path

and neither one has worked. I've have to get another 4-pin to 6-pin 1394 cable to try the AVX-1 in the middle.

The funny thing is every so often it recognizes that I have a 169time device hooked-up but then won't act on the device. Most of the time I get the "Initializing 1394 device" message and nothing happens.

And now for my next 3410a issue...

I'm trying to get the 3410a to timer record off the AV1 or AV2 inputs. I use the VCR+ menu with the 3410a set to the AV1 input source. The menu screen to set the timer appears normally. Once I press "select", I get an "Invalid Source AV1, AV2, HDD for Recording" message. The schedule gets set, however.

With the 3410a off, at the scheduled time the 3410a starts, the "Invalid Source" message reappears and recording does not start. Sometimes AV1 is selected sometimes it is not selected. At the end of the scheduled time, the 3410a asks if I want it to shutoff. One minute after that message appears the 3410a shuts-off.

I am using an only-OTA configuration. I would really like to eliminate recording to tape, which is why I would like to timer record off the composite/analog audio inputs.

I must have something setup wrong. LG is researching the issue and will be calling back. Has anyone been able to timer record with the AV1 or AV2 inputs?

And, my final 3410a issue for today...

One of our local DTV channels is 19-1. When auto-tuning the station comes in as 19-1 with excellent video but no audio. In the guide, this station shows up as 20-1 (the analog station is 20).

How do I tell the guide that the station is really on 19-1? Can I set a schedule recording from the guide and then change the channel to 19-1? Is the lack of audio likely bad PSIP data?

Just picked up an open box Mits HD1100 DVHS last night. I don't have the LST-3410A yet, but am wondering if the Mits will work with it for archival purposes. I've read the 3410's manual and it says it will work with a Mits 1000 DVHS player - I'm guessing that it's a typo. I've also read this entire thread and seen the reports of success with the Mits HD2000.

Has anyone connected the 3410 to a Mits 1100 DVHS?

Thanks,
Reagan

Originally posted by alk3997
And, my final 3410a issue for today...

One of our local DTV channels is 19-1. When auto-tuning the station comes in as 19-1 with excellent video but no audio. In the guide, this station shows up as 20-1 (the analog station is 20).

How do I tell the guide that the station is really on 19-1? Can I set a schedule recording from the guide and then change the channel to 19-1? Is the lack of audio likely bad PSIP data?

I am guessing you are in houston. I am able to tune the station in without problems, but the guide is always wrong.

Yes, I'm in the Houston area. Are you getting audio today when manually tuning? How do you setup for recording UPN shows?

Originally posted by alk3997
One of our local DTV channels is 19-1. When auto-tuning the station comes in as 19-1 with excellent video but no audio. In the guide, this station shows up as 20-1 (the analog station is 20).

How do I tell the guide that the station is really on 19-1?

I had a similar problem with an ABC station. I just remapped the channel in the Channel Editor. Hit the TV Guide button on the remote, go to Setup, go to Change channel display, scroll down to the channel you want to edit, and just punch in the new channel number. Now when you select the channel in your guide, it will tune in to channel 19-1, instead of 20-1.

Stephen

Thank you!

Originally posted by alk3997
And now for my next 3410a issue...

I'm trying to get the 3410a to timer record off the AV1 or AV2 inputs.

I am using an only-OTA configuration. I would really like to eliminate recording to tape, which is why I would like to timer record off the composite/analog audio inputs.

I must have something setup wrong. LG is researching the issue and will be calling back. Has anyone been able to timer record with the AV1 or AV2 inputs?

I would suspect that in order to timer record off the AV1 or AV2 inputs you would need to be set up as Cable. In theory, the "reason" for the AV inputs and scheduled recording would be if you are using a cable box.

The first true failure of my 3410A appeared tonight:

ALL Guide info has disappeared. Gone.

It's set up for OTA only and everything has worked fine up to now. Recorded programs are still present. Channel memory is still there. But no Guide info.

My indoor antennas were positioned where the local PBS station is clearly received. (There has been no previous problem even when this was not the case.)

I set a program manually to record tonight and turned the unit off. The Guide indicator immediately turned on. A minute later, the green "reserved" light went out.

I'll see what happens later...

So has anyone tried this with the 3410A yet?

John

Originally posted by jcg
Is anyone using the 3410 with a Sanyo Z2? I know there are issues with other LG products working with the Z2 over DVI (like the 3510A) so wondering if it was fixed on the 3410. My local dealer just got units in, and I'd like to verify that this works. Thanks.

John

Originally posted by PhillyC
The first true failure of my 3410A appeared tonight:

ALL Guide info has disappeared. Gone.

It's set up for OTA only and everything has worked fine up to now. Recorded programs are still present. Channel memory is still there. But no Guide info.

My indoor antennas were positioned where the local PBS station is clearly received. (There has been no previous problem even when this was not the case.)

I set a program manually to record tonight and turned the unit off. The Guide indicator immediately turned on. A minute later, the green "reserved" light went out.

I'll see what happens later...

I'd be willing to bet that the guide actually comes from ABC.

can this thing be found anywhere new for less than $999? (i'm not looking for $995 either :) )

Originally posted by KornerKlub
I'd be willing to bet that the guide actually comes from ABC.

It happens that the antenna position was good for ABC also.

However, the antennas are often NOT positioned well for ABC, yet I've had no trouble with Guide info until now. Perhaps, whichever channel carries the Guide, the info can be downloaded even if the signal is not strong enough for a digital picture.

Here's a question to ponder: If there were a problem with no reception on one particular night, would the ENTIRE Guide be lost? Or would info be missing for only the 8th day (the newest download info)?

If you only miss one day of guide downloads, then you will be missing only one day of the guide (the last day). The only time that I lost the complete Guide was when my kid got curious and placed that "demo pin" back into the unit with it powered on. You might want to make sure any "gremblins" of your own might have messed with things.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
If you only miss one day of guide downloads, then you will be missing only one day of the guide (the last day). The only time that I lost the complete Guide was when my kid got curious and placed that "demo pin" back into the unit with it powered on. You might want to make sure any "gremblins" of your own might have messed with things.

No, no gremlins here (except the girl friend, who is in great fear of all electronic devices and never touches them). :)

When I say the Guide was gone, I mean there were no tiles --- only blank screens with a "no data" message.

Oh, well, the Guide appears to be still downloading since last night. I'll check it later.

What I meant to say was has anyone tried the 3410A with a Z2 yet?

John

Originally posted by jcg
So has anyone tried this with the 3410A yet?

John

Originally posted by BenDover
can this thing be found anywhere new for less than $999? (i'm not looking for $995 either :) )

i take that as a no...that is a lot to swallow...

Price of 3410a - full retail...

My guess is it's a supply and demand thing. Once this is available in quantity the price will likely drop. Also, there will be some competition in a few months, which should also drive prices down. Right now this is the only consumer focused product that will let you time-shift OTA HD.

Originally posted by BenDover
i take that as a no...that is a lot to swallow...


Ben

What price were you you expecting to find?

Still waiting for my 2nd replacement unit. I've been noticing that programs I set to record more than once are not recording the second time. I did pull the plug and replugged in between but the guide still is there and the record weekly is still there. If I knew then what I know now, I would have waited for this shakeout period to pass. So far the brightness level variation at 1080i through the VGA port is my main concern. This guide skipping comes a close second and the pixelization of programming and audio dropouts run a close third. Like all receivers of the ATSC signal, when you lose the lock, it's gone. That means that if your antenna is slightly off due to wind or whatever you may wind up with a black screen where the recording would have been. There is no warning for this so you may lose several nights of recordings without knowing it was not locked on to the signal. I have been running my SVHS VCR's so I won't miss programs I like.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Still waiting for my 2nd replacement unit.


Has anyone else had such bad luck with the 3410 on PQ and other hardware defect issues that required repair or replacement?

Have any of these failures proved to be impossible to cure?

MrHiFi,

I can't speak to the RGB problems, since I don't use that output.

The Guide fails at weekly recording if the same name program is not on at the exact same time the following week. The show remains on the schedule with a notation that there is a problem. I'm not sure if the schedule recovers for the NEXT week if the program is on at the same time. (I was about to find out when I lost all Guide info and had to start over again.)

The 3410A should have had an indicator for a locked ATSC signal on the front display. Even the crappy T165 had that. It wasn't a signal strength meter, but at least you could look at the unit display and know if you were locked on to a channel while you were watching something on other equipment.

Also, the Samsung would recover if the signal returned. It seems that the 3410A sometimes does not unless you change the channel and come back to it again.

Nevertheless, the unit has proved reliable for me except for the Guide loss recently and the fact that the power off command kills a timer recording. The 3410A has cured my dropout problems and doubled my ATSC channels. I used to double-record like you when I had the T165, but that has become a thing of the past.

I hope your replacement unit proves as reliable for you.

PhillyC-
I lost my guide when I told the 3410 to 'turn off' the analog channel that provides the guide service. I really do not want any of the analog stations, so I decided one night to turn them off. Next morning I had no quide data at all. I don't know if anything like this is why you lost your guide, but the result sounds similar.

Originally posted by Hyrax
PhillyC-
I lost my guide when I told the 3410 to 'turn off' the analog channel that provides the guide service. I really do not want any of the analog stations, so I decided one night to turn them off. Next morning I had no quide data at all. I don't know if anything like this is why you lost your guide, but the result sounds similar.

Thanks, but I'm OTA only and all analog channels are turned off in the Guide. It's rebuilding now. I have not been able to figured out why I lost the Guide after it worked fine for a month.

I'm all OTA as well. I tried to do what you say has been working for a month and when I did I lost everything in the guide. Now I've got one analog sataion turned on in the guide and all seems well.
I'm confused because I thought that the guide info can only come from an analog (NTSC) channel and that if you turn off everything but the digital stations you cannot get the guide at all.

Hyrax,

After the recent failure, I turned off the 3410A for a couple of hours until it downloaded the channels for my zip code and some "no listing" tiles. I then turned off ALL channels in the Guide except for seven OTA digitals, and the Guide is working again.

Perhaps in your area, the OTA's do not send Guide info. Which analog channel did you need for Guide info? PBS?

Phil -
Interesting that you can use digital stations. I cannot.
For my zip code, I need channel 2 from Boston, a PBS station. I tried using all 21 of my OTA digital stations without any of the analog one and it didn't work. It is no big deal needing the one analog station, but I sure wish the whole process wasn't shrouded in mystery.

If I give it a New Hampshire zip code, I need an analog ABC station from New Hampshire.

Can anyone verify that the 3410A will get Guide info through the cable RF input without the AV1 inputs being fed from a cable box?

Here's the deal: I'm getting Comcast cable in two weeks with a digital (non-HD) box. I'd like to occasionally record unscrambled programs through the 3410A cable RF input. Meanwhile, most cable recording will be done via the cable box composite jacks to a VCR. Therefore, the cable box will have two outputs, 1) the RF out to the 3410A and 2) the composite outs to the VCR.

The manual seems to say that, even with the incoming cable split to the 3410A RF, the cable box MUST still be connected to the 3410A AV1 inputs to receive Guide data.

Any information will be appreciated.

I have RGB 1080i output and don't see the brightness variation problem. A marginal OTA signal does cause annoying drop outs and pixilation, however as the signal improves, normal viewing or recording is restored. The only quirk I've noticed is that when I stop a D-VHS tape, I sometimes lose audio and have to switch channels to restore sound. I solved this by exclusively using the tape transport controls that come on the 3410 remote rather than on my Panasonic PVHD1000 remote control.