Timmer,

This is not on point but feel I needd to comment. If you need to store TV programs in order to keep your children occupied, be prepared for serious educatiol and motivation issues in their future. Children under the age of 6 should never spend more than an hour a day in front of a TV alone. They need to be creating something...playing with a toy or a pair of spoons if that is what you have. TV destroys creativity. Please Timmer, force them to use their imagination. You may think I am crazy but what I am saying is true. I've seen the consequences of TV parenting. In a few years you will ask "why is Susie or Johnny acting this way?". The answer will be that they do not know anything else. Ask the men in here. I'll bet we all played with electric trains, built models and read. Many probably play an instrument. TV at 2-6 is a recipe for disaster.

Dude, read my post closer.
I record programs for myself to watch later, not months of programming for the kids.
'Nuff said.

Isn't this the group that bought the remaining Motherboards from LG when LG decided to bail on the 3410a?
I think it is. The devices look almost identical if one ignores the trim.

Just find a HD like the original HD that does not try to correct every problem. Just unplug and replug the wires and Voila, all done. It reboots perfectly and works like it was the OE drive. BTW, I could not get the OE HD to work in my computer as a spare drive. The computer failed to recognize the drive I took out of the 3410A.

Quickview drives have the retry and temp re-calibrate suppressed for video applications. Check the manufacturer info on the HDD you removed and lookup the drive. You can find them on eBay and elsewhere.

You may need to mount your 120g HDD in a USB box and access it with a linux system.

OK, so I'm going to open my 3410A and give it a try. Hopefully, there'll be a standard IDE ribbon cable (I seem to recall that from an earlier reading) and it may even be possible to setup multiple drives. Or, maybe it's possible to bring the ribbon cable out and let the HDD reside externally, where it would be easy to swap HDDs.

While I'm here, a comment about the free "TV Guide" schedule information: It doesn't include the local PBS stations here in the SF Bayarea. That's a bummer for a guy like me that mostly watches PBS. I have to lookup my PBS schedule on titantv.com, but fortunately, I always have a laptop handy wherever I watch TV, anyhow. It just means I have to use a timer recording for PBS.

I wonder what the reason is for the PBS omission. I've surmised that the PBS schedule is actively suppressed by TV Guide or LG because the info is freely available. Also, on the 3410A when I press the "info" button it reports 'no info available' for all PBS stations, but I know that the standard carrier-borne info is always available on the Samsung SIR T351 I have in the bedroom.

Is this the result of a conspiracy between the commercial channels, TV Guide and LG to drive viewers away from PBS and toward the commercial stations?

If so, it is really dumb, because it means that I watch PBS live and record the commercial station, which I view with commercials skipped. Total backfire.

Did you go into TVGuide Setup, and see if you have any other PBS icons?
You can re-direct the channel numbers and see if it downloads the correct schedules.

While I'm here, a comment about the free "TV Guide" schedule information: It doesn't include the local PBS stations here in the SF Bayarea. That's a bummer for a guy like me that mostly watches PBS. I have to lookup my PBS schedule on titantv.com, but fortunately, I always have a laptop handy wherever I watch TV, anyhow. It just means I have to use a timer recording for PBS.


Hi bliffle. Jan's right when he suggests looking for other PBS stations in your TV Guide listings. You might try turning those other channels on in the TV Guide channel set up, and/or in the machine's channel add/delete function. I'm not sure where in the Bay Area you are but my PBS subchannels are in the 20-xx DTV range while PBS HD is on channel 67-2. The listings could be wrong so keep your laptop handy.

While I'm here, a comment about the free "TV Guide" schedule information: It doesn't include the local PBS stations here in the SF Bayarea. That's a bummer for a guy like me that mostly watches PBS. I have to lookup my PBS schedule on titantv.com, but fortunately, I always have a laptop handy wherever I watch TV, anyhow. It just means I have to use a timer recording for PBS.

I wonder what the reason is for the PBS omission. I've surmised that the PBS schedule is actively suppressed by TV Guide or LG because the info is freely available. Also, on the 3410A when I press the "info" button it reports 'no info available' for all PBS stations, but I know that the standard carrier-borne info is always available on the Samsung SIR T351 I have in the bedroom.

Is this the result of a conspiracy between the commercial channels, TV Guide and LG to drive viewers away from PBS and toward the commercial stations?

If so, it is really dumb, because it means that I watch PBS live and record the commercial station, which I view with commercials skipped. Total backfire.

Do you get it OTA or via cable? It might be a conspiracy by whichever station transmits TVGOS. Here in Detroit, the PBS station is the TVGOS source; their listings are dead-on, but others have issues. :)

While I'm here, a comment about the free "TV Guide" schedule information: It doesn't include the local PBS stations here in the SF Bayarea. That's a bummer for a guy like me that mostly watches PBS. I have to lookup my PBS schedule on titantv.com, but fortunately, I always have a laptop handy wherever I watch TV, anyhow. It just means I have to use a timer recording for PBS.

Here in the Boston area, I receive TV Guide info for the two PBS SD analog stations, which I remapped on the 3410A to their digital equivalents. However, there is no guide info for the PBS national HD feed, so I have to get the info on-line and program the HD shows I want to record manually. I have written the engineering department several times in the past several years about this problem, but have never received a reply.

The newest wrinkle is that they apparently implemented new digital broadcast software with an error in the PSIP info that causes their digital channel not to remap to their nominal channel on some (but not all) STBs. As usual, my message to them about this problem got stonewalled.

In the Detroit area, our TVGOS info also comes from the local PBS analogue station. My 3410 download light goes on and off, but no information has downloaded for days since their pledge drive has started. I think they forgot to turn it on.

The TVG system is built into the transmission path, with it creating new data on Line 15 of both Field 1 and Field 2.

I can only explain how it is installed at one location (where I work) and it is done such that Only Line 15 on both fields are altered on the program path. Line 15 is keyed out of Program, and replaced with line 15 from TVG keyer. In our case, it is done in the SD Digital path, as opposed to SD Analog path, to minimise any potential problems. This SD Digital path does get converted to Analog before hitting the SD transmitter.

Things that could go wrong:

The TVG Folks couldn't connect to the box to upload the data into it. If that were the case, they would call the station, and ask for the box to be reset.

I doubt that the TVG system would be "patched out", unless a failure occurred.

Line 15 is keyed out of Program, and replaced with line 15 from TVG keyer. In our case, it is done in the SD Digital path, as opposed to SD Analog path, to minimise any potential problems. This SD Digital path does get converted to Analog before hitting the SD transmitter.You know best what works for you, but I'm surprised that doesn't cause more problems. Unless you mean you insert the digital version of TVGOS, which the downstream D/A recognizes and converts to the analog version and inserts on line 15 for broadcast.

I'm more familiar with satellite uplinking than broadcast. In the early days of our switchover from analog to digital (MPEG-2/DVB, or DVB-S) we and others treated closed captions on analog line 21 as video to be digitized for transmission and restored to analog by the receiver. But either our encoder or the receiver's decoder might shift the video up or down a line or two, putting the captions on the wrong line. And even if they ended up on the right line , they were so mangled by the A/D, D/A and especially the MPEG-2 compression that you'd be lucky to make any sense out of the result. The right way, of course, is to strip them off line 21, convert them to the digital CC format and send that as a separate bitstream in the package. The receiver should recognize that bitstream, convert the data to the analog format and reinsert it on line 21 for analog output.

Come to think of it, that's what we're all hoping someone will make a receiver to do for TVGOS after the analog shutdown.

The new Quickview is installed and works fine. Now to figure out how to playback the stuff on the old HDD. I'm sure I'll need to use something like my thinkpad T60 with linux, but I'm not sure which software, though I know that there are TS players that should handle the datastream. Should be possible to produce almost lossless rips from that old HDD.

Has anyone done this?

bliffle,

If you figure it out let me know.

The new Quickview is installed and works fine. Now to figure out how to playback the stuff on the old HDD. I'm sure I'll need to use something like my thinkpad T60 with linux, but I'm not sure which software, though I know that there are TS players that should handle the datastream. Should be possible to produce almost lossless rips from that old HDD.

Has anyone done this?

The most straightforward wayto get stuff off the old HD is to put it back into the 3410a and capture off the firewire port using a Mac or dVHS deck.

If you figure out how to get stuff straight off the HD, you'll be a major hero here.

Has anyone found a way to install 2 HDDs in the 3410a?

Or, has anyone found a way to bring the IDE and power cables out so the HDD can be easily switched?

bliffle,

If you check the first 50 pages of this thread, you will see that several people did this and documented it thoroughly.

bliffle,

If you check the first 50 pages of this thread, you will see that several people did this and documented it thoroughly.

I checked the first 18, and only found the original 'scan1man' post that anyone reported even trying 2 HDDS. I'd read that about 2 years ago. But apparently it doesn't work.

The other alternative back then was a PC program ('capdvhs'?) to capture the TS off the 1394 DVHS feed, but I never got that to work (the tuner was not recognized on the PC IIRC).

So I'm off to the store to get a ATA box and see if I can read that old HDD with a linux. I'm sure that no MS system will read it as that might enable someone to copy their damn OS. Altho I've done THAT already with a couple of independent utilities.

I'd be semi-satisfied if I could copy the pgms from the old 120g HDD to the new 250g so I could view them more easily. Lacking that I'll get (eventually) a HD-DVD burner for archive.

Well, bliffle, someone was successful because I remember reading about it here and wondering why not buy a second machine. It is there and maybe some of the old timers will remember. As for me, I have 3 3410's and the latest Comcast/Motorola DVR that puts the 3410's to shame. Nevertheless, even though I have to plug and replug daily, I will continue using them.

Unplug and replug daily is bad enough, but mine now has taken to going flukey all by itself. I'll see the download light go off, and assume that the download has been sent. If I unplug and replug, the light will often come on again. If the box is turned on for any reason (to watch something or for a scheduled recording) it will never download again without an uplug/plug. I've taken to doing the u/p dance any time the light's not lit, and it re-lights 4 out of 5 times. I've hardly ever got a full schedule because of this problem.

bliffle,

Here's what you can do if you don't want to dump to dVHS and you can't, like many of us, get the PC to capture off the firewire.

1. Borrow someone's Mac with firewire ports.
2. Install the Apple developers tools
3. Install the firewire SDK
4. Use virtualDVHS to capture your program from the 3410a
5. Use VLC to convert the captured .m2t file to a .ts file (this probably could be done on your PC as well)
6. Transfer the file to your PC and use the usual PC editing/fixing programs.

I'm sure someone else has a better workflow, but I just got all this figured out the last couple of days.

What advantage to 3 DVRs? There isn't that much worth recording. On commercial TV, anyway. I use about 3-4 hours of DVR time for transient recordings that are usually viewed and deleted in 24 hrs, and on the rest of the HDD I have a few things worth saving and reprising occasionally, all from PBS. For example. I have some gorgeous HDTV tours of the scenic beauties of Utah and Idaho with flyovers that are quite sensational in color and detail which I use to dazzle visitors. I also have the Julie Taymor "Magic Flute" and Natalie Dessay in "Rossignol", and some others, which I reprise for my own entertainment occasionally.

That's why I'd be satisfied to reload my collection from the old 120g to the new 250g HDD if that becomes necessary.

Meanwhile I'll see if I can play the TS from the 120g. I'm sure there's a linux program somewhere that will do it, or maybe I can dope it out myself.

A HD-DVD is clumsier to use than the internal HDD, and the data density might be a problem. It looks like the 3410A uses about 10g per hour for streaming, but lossless compression should be able to improve that to where HD-DVD can hold a few hours worth, making DVD-changing less often.

Wilson,

That sounds like a good idea. I can probably borrow or rent a mac for a few days to finish what I need. I could capture the streams (even in PC compatible media, say a 120g IDE or SATA HDD) then feed them back thru 1394 to the bigger HDD, which would be nice. Then, at my leisure, I could convert the streams to a convenient media like HD-DVD.

How much power do I need in the mac?

The mac doesn't need much processing power. It just needs a built-in firewire port. Some firewire add-in cards work better than others, but the built-ins are pretty good bets. I've heard of people using old G4's.

You know best what works for you, but I'm surprised that doesn't cause more problems. Unless you mean you insert the digital version of TVGOS, which the downstream D/A recognizes and converts to the analog version and inserts on line 15 for broadcast.

.

No. You are confusing apples with oranges. The "Digital" I refer to is the digital equivalent of the Analog SD signal. Don't confuse "Digital" with HDTV. Just as you can have analog (Vinyl) or digital (CD) audio, you can have Analog or Digital SDTV. Obviously if you use Digital SD Video, it has to be D/A'd back to analog before the Analog SD transmitter, and that's what I was referring to.

There is less degrading of video, and you can process much more (with less artifacts) in the digital realm than analog realm.

TGV V7 is available for both Digital and analog video. I use digital for the transmission path, and use the analog for Test monitoring.

I hooked up the old 120g HDD and it is obviously some kind of utterly proprietary database. It shows nothing, no label, no partition table, etc. I'm not going to spelunk this any further unless I happen upon a program for dealing with it explicitly.

A G4 mac is less than $100 on eBay, but I think I can borrow one. To be fair to anyone who lends me a mac, maybe I should mount my own OS to add the SDK, etc., to, and then restore their pristine orginal system. Can I copy the OS to a new HDD (probably a 2.5 for a laptop) and then run from that? I'd be able to do it easily with linux. Then I could just get a new 120g 2.5" HDD, put the system on it and run and fillup the rest of the HD with data.

I've done that sort of thing with ubuntu (it's easy) and even with XP (not too hard) so I bet there's a way to do it with Mac.

I've never tried it, but Carbon Copy Cloner is supposed to be able to make copies of entire HD's including the OS. If you are going to run the OS from an external drive, I think it needs to be via firewire. The 3410a often gets unhappy when it sees another device on a firewire network other than the dVHS (in this case, virtualdVHS).

So I would try to use the internal drive. One thing you could do is clone the drive with the OS and then swap your drive with the original one and when you are done with the project put theirs back in.

I've never tried it, but Carbon Copy Cloner is supposed to be able to make copies of entire HD's including the OS. If you are going to run the OS from an external drive, I think it needs to be via firewire. The 3410a often gets unhappy when it sees another device on a firewire network other than the dVHS (in this case, virtualdVHS).

So I would try to use the internal drive. One thing you could do is clone the drive with the OS and then swap your drive with the original one and when you are done with the project put theirs back in.

Wilson,

I agree. I propose to use a Mac laptop loaned by someone nearby, like my wife or daughter, and return it to them 3 days later, unchanged. Usually it's pretty easy to change a laptop HDD.

----------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by ebo
You know best what works for you, but I'm surprised that doesn't cause more problems. Unless you mean you insert the digital version of TVGOS, which the downstream D/A recognizes and converts to the analog version and inserts on line 15 for broadcast.
---------------------------
No. You are confusing apples with oranges. The "Digital" I refer to is the digital equivalent of the Analog SD signal. Don't confuse "Digital" with HDTV. Just as you can have analog (Vinyl) or digital (CD) audio, you can have Analog or Digital SDTV. Obviously if you use Digital SD Video, it has to be D/A'd back to analog before the Analog SD transmitter, and that's what I was referring to.

There is less degrading of video, and you can process much more (with less artifacts) in the digital realm than analog realm.

TGV V7 is available for both Digital and analog video. I use digital for the transmission path, and use the analog for Test monitoring.I think we're on the same page here, just saying it differently. Nothing in my post referred specifically to HD, just the different ways of dealing with digital data in digital and analog environments and the conversions between them. My point was that you can't treat the data as part of the picture for A/D and D/A conversions and expect to recover it intact, and you said you're not doing it that way. I guess we'll just have to agree to . . . ummm . . . agree.

Unplug and replug daily is bad enough, but mine now has taken to going flukey all by itself. I've hardly ever got a full schedule because of this problem.

I can't believe some of ya'll still get guide data (or even try to). I still use my 3410 like a VCR (manual record), but since I lost my TVGOS feed (went to FiOS) the "guide" stays on ALL the time and I NEVER get lockups anymore! I guess there's a silver lining in every cloud...

I do all my programing manually. The problem with these units is that if they get corrupted TV guide data, even if you are scheduling your recordings manually, they will react in unpredictable ways, locking up, giving you the invalied AV1/AV2 message and not making scheduled recordings. I would prefer to be able to shut off the TVGOS feature and just use it like a VCR. ChasieB

Has anyone found a way to install 2 HDDs in the 3410a?

Or, has anyone found a way to bring the IDE and power cables out so the HDD can be easily switched?

Check post #2296

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5210327&highlight=Shenefelt#post5210327 post

If you need more info, PM me.


-James

Stanton,
What is FiOS please?

It's a triple play service from Verizon, a telephone company on the east coast. The picture quality from it is supposed to be only surpassed by OTA, and HD disc formats.

Check post #2296

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5210327&highlight=Shenefelt#post5210327 post

If you need more info, PM me.


-James

As I suspected, one can attach either of 2 drives, but not both. Not at the same time, anyway. So what I'm going to do is bring the ribbon cable and the power cable out the back of the 3410 and then attach whichever HDD I want to use and just set it on top of the 3410 case. That'll work until I export the keepers thru the 1394, and, maybe, add them to the big HDD.

There was a post here earlier on where a fellow used an IDE to SATA converter, and somehow got multiple drives going. I forgot who it was, but he claimed success....

Jan, I believe that was dahester, who disappeared from here 4-5 months ago. His posts were:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4687062#post4687062
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5161933#post5161933

I never saw any indication though that he had more than one drive running on a single LST-3410a at the same time. I may have missed that.

When Bill Shenefelt had two drives simultaneously connected by IDE ribbon cable, he only had one powered at a time.

- Tim

To whom may concern:

A used 3410A reached $610 @ebay. I think it's time to take action - turn junk into gold.

If you are not far from Nashville, TN, you can buy new 3410A @Electronic Express for $399, in store only.

A fellow I work with is looking for a used 3410a

Mine has been sitting collecting dust. If anyone is interested PM me.

Anyone in the Twin Cities area getting the "Invalid AV1, AV2, HDD ..." message?
Mine just started doing this after maybe seeing it once in the 2+ years I've owned it.
After searching through the posts here, it seems this error is caused by faulty guide data. Or is it that the HDD is too full?
So, anyone seeing this recently, or have a definite explanation of what causes this error?

Thanks,

Timmer

Timmer,

I'm in Maryland but the symptom is the same on my 3 units. They all have the last firmware so it is not a firmware issue. I have to unplug/replug daily to keep the white guide light on and get new data. The Invalid phrase occurs every week or two without warning on one machine but not the others. I am trying to say that any one machinemight be affected while the others are not on a given day. There is no rhyme or reason. Sometimes the guide information comes back after several days of fno listings. I believe that these units were designed to operate with a version off the guide stream that passedd iunto history about the time these things hit the shelves. Mine always screwed up but gradually got worse. No one has a "definite" explanation but there are a lot of folks here who have a lot of anecdotal info. that supports what I just sid. I just finished using mine for 7 hours without a glitch.

I had an issue with one of my systems recently, and thought this plan of attack might be helpful to others, so here it goes:
When I encounter "issues" with the DVR (Having multiple units on same antenna/cable systems sure makes it easy to spot which one is "acting up", I follow the following steps when encountering TVG issues.

A month ago, I tried a drive in the DVR which ended up having considerable data errors on it (Wasn't a Quickview drive). After returning the origional (good) 120Gb drive to unit, I encountered a lot of TVG issues.

Symptom: TVG data not being received. Data Light working occasionally, but not as often as other units. Occasionaly no TVG came up on power up. Powered down, pulled power plug, waited 10 seconds, power up, and did not turn on until clock came back up. That got TVG screen, but TVG still petered out over time. "No Listing".

Switched to plan #2. In TVG, Setup/Messages, and displayed the TVG Code, entered: 653214741, and then hit Select. This is the TVG Reset code. After a couple seconds of entering this on the Messages screen, the TVG screen will go to black, and TVG will be reset. I have found that usually this will be enough to reset the TVG system and return it to operational status. It drops the TVG Channel, forcing the system to search for the channel again, but will keep the TVG Channel listings and channel re-directs. In this case, this did not work. I tried it a second time to confirm it wouldn't work.

Plan #3.. Reset a bit deeper. Go into TVG, Setup, and tell the setting for your system are incorrect, even when they are. Then select the same Cable Box settings, but an ALTOGETHER DIFFERENT Zipcode. Then, turn the box off and wait 10-15 min, then, turn the box back on, and program in the Correct info for your system. Then turn box off overnight. The following day, it should offer you differing channel listings. Select yours, and wait another day for OTA HDTV Listings, then organize & Re-Direct the Channels, if necessary. In this case, it didn't work!!!

How to issue a real Factory Reset to the 3410a:

Turn the 3410a off. Wait 10 Seconds, and turn it back on again...
After the Hard Drive space Icon shows up, Change the Display Format to "VIDEO"
On Front of 3410a, Press "Left" button and "Select" button Simultaneously.
You should see "DIAGMODE:TS" on the front panel display. If Not, Press "Left" and "Select" again (some machines do it on first press, others take twice).
Now press the "Upper" Button
Then Press the "Select" Button
Then Press the "Select" Button a 2nd time.
You should see "WAIT:TS" and after a while "GOOD:TS"

This reloads all the default TVG Settings (Including Channel Icons) from ROM, Re-Initializes the hard drive, and in general gives the unit a "First Birthday", and by that I mean a TOTAL GROUND UP DEFAULT CODE Re-load! ALL SETTINGS OF ALL TYPES ARE LOST!! Drive is Erased, Clock/Date is erased, TVG Settings Erased, any TVG channel re-organizations or edits will be lost, as will most Channel Logo's.
Reset the Output Display Format back to where it was, Set up the Country, Zip and cable settings, and powered off.
Next Day selected Cable list, then powered back off.
Following Day received OTA HDTV channel icons, and powered off another day.
day after that, Re-organized the Channel icons, and re-directed channels as necessary.
I haven't pointed Network Icons at the channels yet, I'll pass on that one.

This "First Birthday" got my errant 3410a slapped back into normal operations.

This is the first time I've had one so locked up. The "First Birthday" worked.

Jan J,
Great summary. I hope never need a "born again DVR" but I've printed your post just in case. So far, steps 1 and/or 2 have been sufficient.

Jan,

From March to June of tis year I had to go through the complete reboot you describe. Since then, regardless of the level of failure, an unplug/replug will fix it albeit on its own schedule but certainly within 3 days to be 100% functional. These are certainly not for whimpy watchers.

It is amazing what we have to go through to keep these things working properly. The average consumer would never put up with all this. Only us confirmed 3410holics. Jan, I also printed your reset steps for future reference. Thanks, Cbuckie

FWIW, I have given up on mine, but I'll post what I know to be true. My original post is here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11509428#post11509428).
Since then I have left it unplugged again, hoping to drain any leftover memory to no avail. I've replaced the HDD. I've even removed the riser board and booted thinking the TVG data/system was contained there. Results the same. Even tried messing with the 4 dip switches. Nada. Nothing has worked. My machine will boot, but I immediately get the green "reserved' light and cannot get to the TVG menu to delete the offending data. I cannot set the clock or date because of the 'reserved' issue. I cannot get to the VCR+ menu either (seems tied to the TVG system). Oddly, the box still works well as tuner and will even record and replay on the HDD if used in real time. Without scheduling ability I now have a very expensive door stop. I'm convinced mine has suffered some type of motherboard failure specific to the TVGOS portion. My only option is factory repair. Does anyone know how much LG typically charges for out of warranty service on these %&*# things?

rfburns
From what I can tell, the 'riser board' IS the Gemstar CPU board. First and formost, put the DIP switches back where they were..

Try this... Follow instructions above for a "First Birthday"....

Got nothing to lose.

I recall someone posting that the Gemstar board is many hundreds of $.

From what I've heard, Gemstar cannot be reloaded in the 'field'.

I sent you a PM

P.S. If you can get to it (In Menu, not TVG) What firmware is your 3410a?

I've tried the "First Birthday" trick many times now. Even have the steps memorized! Dip switches are back in original position. My firmware originally was mp1.12, but have flashed to mp1.15. I thought for sure that would clear any errant data and 'fix' my problem. No such luck. :-(

rfburns.... Do me a favor... hook up the I-link interface and see if you can change your cablebox channel with the LG channel select.

What I'm trying to do is check out the various parts of the circuitry.

This would hopefully indicate that the Gemstar I/O interface chip is working
(page 3-106 3-107)
I have to go back and re-read your first post info... then I may edit this

EDIT: Can you get into the Regular (Not TVG) Menu?

Refere to page 3-68 & 3-69

You can power up/down, Change channels on LG tuner, manually record and manually playback. Can you see the list of programs you've recorded? (That checks out that buss....) You then must get into LG Menu, right?

If you hook video into video input, can you select it, and if so, can you see it? (Don't care about audio) (Same buss as above

You had a firmware upgrade, so Com port still works.. (That checks out that buss)
Wait a minute....
Do you have a way of checking voltage very carefully? TRY and find TP947 or TP948 (+1.8V TP) (I have NO IDEA where they are, Possibly by IC 112 or IC101 of Gemstar board. The 3.3V supply on the Gemstar board gets regulated down to 1.8V by IC112. The 1.8V supply is ONLY for Gemstar board Processor IC101... That processor needs both voltages in order to run, and it doesn't appear that the 1.8V supply goes anywhere else. If everything BUT TVG is working, this could be reason..
IF you can't find those TP's do this carefully (I have NO idea where this IC is).... Measure voltage between chassis ground and IC112 pin 3 (see page 3-107) to see if you have 1.8V DC

I realize this is really digging in there....

@ Jan,

I can get into the Regular Menu, the LG Menu (for 'first birthday' and the other functions) and also Program List menu for replay. Just not any TVG Menu.

I'm capable of checking voltages. I can also check if I-link still works and video in. (haven't bothered to try these since it went south). It might take me a while to get back with results. Thanks for the suggestions.

Jan J, awesome summary, as usual

rfburns, one other thing to try, but keep in mind i am ota only
turn off your analog station that is carrying your tvgos signal
if you have another local tvgos provider, turn that analog on
leave it off for a day and see what happens

this is my latest
while in the guide, dvr froze, all i could do was power off
did unplug, replug, the guide light came on but the time was way off, sorry don't remember the times
tried another unplug, replug, same bad time, left off overnight
two shows recorded overnight, but they recorded at the wrong time, basically, the wrong shows recorded
next day, turned on, "invalid ..." message, so i turned off analog pbs, the station i have been getting guide from for years, turned on analog abc, read somewhere they also provide tvgos in the twin cities, then turned off dvr
then i took out one hdd and put in another in my external drive enclosure
i was just about to power on when the time suddenly changed to the correct time, and guide light was on, so i left it alone to download guide data
later that day, turned on dvr, everything was fine!!
except for one thing, all of sudden the video window is unlocked in the guide, (the video window in the upper left of the screen would change the channel as you scrolled through the listings while in the guide) i have had this locked since day one, weird
also, scrolling through the listings was much faster than before, hmmmm

i will have to put the old drive back in but leave the analog abc channel on for guide info and see what happens, i.e., is it the drive change or the tvgos analog channel change that corrected my 3410? i will post my findings

timmer

rfburns, i came across something that you could try too, it looks like it doesn't require you to go into the TVGuide menu, only the 3410's menu :) :
---
To reset TV Guide settings:
1) Go To the LST-3410 Menu and highlight EZScan (do not execute it - just highlight it)
2) Using the remote, enter: 100102 and press exit
Good deal! This "trick" is much easier than changing the zip code, waiting a day, and then changing it back (which doesn't always work the first time depending on the zip).
---
I have no guarantees on this, but it sounds like you are at a stage to try anything, if in doubt, search the thread for the code above

if this works, you may want to think about doing this:
---
[Post 4727]
Author : AlB
Date : 10-31-07 05:02 PM

The problem with these units is even if you schedule your recordings manually like a vcr, which is how I use it, corrupted TV Guide will still mess things up. You will still get invalid AV1 or AV2 pop up and the programs will not record.

I do OTA only and give the 3410s an invalid zip as well as tell them I have cable (I don't)--I get no guide data so no problems requiring unplug, etc.
---

good luck!!

timmer

Timmer, what exactly does this trick do?

Jan,

I had this info in some notes I was keeping, I truly don't know what it does, but here are some posts I've copied after downloading and searching the thread for 100102:

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[Post 2992]
Author : funster
Date : 08-10-05 11:25 AM

I am working on getting my TV Guide to populate on the replacement 3410 I just received from LG.

After 2 days of no info and mutiple attempts at the zip code reset - I called LG.

Their tech was helpful and gave me some info I have not yet seen on this thread:

To reset TV Guide settings:
1) Go To the LST-3410 Menu and highlight EZScan (do not execute it - just highlight it)
2) Using the remote, enter: 100102

I then went into the TV Guide diagnostics menu (753259852) and saw that the Host Channel is now 0x0.

I ran the setup again to make sure the zip code info is correct and now I have it powered off. Hopefully, it will download tonight...

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[Post 3011]
Author : funster
Date : 08-25-05 10:46 AM

Sorry for not reporting the progress with my 3410 following the 100102 reset.

The unit took a full download that evening and has worked flawlessly since. I finally eliminated duplicate and unused channels from the the TV guide and have scheduled multiple recordings which have worked. I just set up my first daily and weekly reoccurring recording schedule so I will know if/how it works shortly.

Thanks for all the info in this discussion. I've learned a lot and really like the 3410 now that it is working better...

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[Post 3031]
Author : dicko2
Date : 09-10-05 06:11 PM

I am working on getting my TV Guide to populate on the replacement 3410 I just received from LG.

After 2 days of no info and mutiple attempts at the zip code reset - I called LG.

Their tech was helpful and gave me some info I have not yet seen on this thread:

To reset TV Guide settings:
1) Go To the LST-3410 Menu and highlight EZScan (do not execute it - just highlight it)
2) Using the remote, enter: 100102

I then went into the TV Guide diagnostics menu (753259852) and saw that the Host Channel is now 0x0.

I ran the setup again to make sure the zip code info is correct and now I have it powered off. Hopefully, it will download tonight...


Well, I just tried this and nothing happens... Actually, let me clarify this statement. I tried it a few days ago when the guide hung up and the host channel did indeed go to zero. Well, the guide is still FUBAR so today I tried this again and nothing happens.
1. I hit the menu button on the remote & navigate over to the EZ-Scan button. The Ez-scan screen pops up but I dont move over to it.
2. I type 100102 on the remote
3. I hit exit on the remote
4. go to the guide to bring up service mode (753159852) and the host channel is always the same.

Any clues?

dickm

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[Post 3090]
Author : garbage1fan
Date : 10-06-05 10:09 PM

4) The guide will not download for me, and I am using an antenna so I need to know what is the host channel for my locale. Overall though a lack of guide (which I want) it still works great and will definitely do the trick.
UPDATE: I'm about 36 miles SE of the ESB as the crow flies. Hope this helps someone to help me.

I have a 451 series (using an antenna) and could not get the guide to download either. I tried the unplug/re-plug procedure, changed the zip code, and even tried to reset the TV Guide settings with 100102 command. Still no guide listing. I finally gave up and just started using the manual record function. After about 3 weeks the guide listing filled in. Not sure why it took so long, but it finally works.

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[Post 3276]
Author : UncD2000
Date : 12-30-05 03:12 AM

After entering Menu, highlight EZ-Scan but do not engage it. Type in 100102 and press Exit. This should reset TV Guide, and if the time was absent, it should return shortly. This procedure doesn't necessarily get you beyond the "No Listings" stage, but it will enable recordings to be scheduled manually. When the TV Guide screen says "No data available for this screen", the time will not hold and manually scheduled recordings probably will not occur. You need "No Listings" and a reliable time readout as a minimum.

Getting TV Guide to display actual programming is a separate issue. You are dependent on the quality of data transmitted by the Host Channel, so it seems to be "luck of the draw" there from my experience.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
[Post 3031]
Author : dicko2
Date : 09-10-05 06:11 PM

I am working on getting my TV Guide to populate on the replacement 3410 I just received from LG.

After 2 days of no info and mutiple attempts at the zip code reset - I called LG.

Their tech was helpful and gave me some info I have not yet seen on this thread:

To reset TV Guide settings:
1) Go To the LST-3410 Menu and highlight EZScan (do not execute it - just highlight it)
2) Using the remote, enter: 100102

I then went into the TV Guide diagnostics menu (753259852) and saw that the Host Channel is now 0x0.

I ran the setup again to make sure the zip code info is correct and now I have it powered off. Hopefully, it will download tonight...


Well, I just tried this and nothing happens... Actually, let me clarify this statement. I tried it a few days ago when the guide hung up and the host channel did indeed go to zero. Well, the guide is still FUBAR so today I tried this again and nothing happens.
1. I hit the menu button on the remote & navigate over to the EZ-Scan button. The Ez-scan screen pops up but I dont move over to it.
2. I type 100102 on the remote
3. I hit exit on the remote
4. go to the guide to bring up service mode (753159852) and the host channel is always the same.

Any clues?

dickm

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[Post 3273]
Author : UncD2000
Date : 12-29-05 06:24 PM

I mean...how hard is it to put a CMOS battery in it to save the clock after a power outage? Especially with timer recording as a primary feature?They probably thought this unnecessary because the Host Channel continuously transmits the time. The last time mine lost the time I got it back by entering the Guide reset code 100102 (with EZ-Scan highlighted).

After 16 months with the 3410A, I believe that its vulnerability to corrupt data from the Host Channel is the root cause of all of the Guide issues. Whenever Fox or ABC displays as my host channel, the Guide is in and out. Both of my units (one is in Carpentersville) have indicated Ch. 11 PBS as Host Channel for about a week, and everything has been perfect. Hope it stays that way, but I guess that's too much to ask. In contrast, the Sony DHG-HDD250 has no Guide problems regardless of the Host Channel, so evidently it has a more advanced chipset to deal with corrupt incoming data.

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[Post 3276]
Author : UncD2000
Date : 12-30-05 03:12 AM

After entering Menu, highlight EZ-Scan but do not engage it. Type in 100102 and press Exit. This should reset TV Guide, and if the time was absent, it should return shortly. This procedure doesn't necessarily get you beyond the "No Listings" stage, but it will enable recordings to be scheduled manually. When the TV Guide screen says "No data available for this screen", the time will not hold and manually scheduled recordings probably will not occur. You need "No Listings" and a reliable time readout as a minimum.

Getting TV Guide to display actual programming is a separate issue. You are dependent on the quality of data transmitted by the Host Channel, so it seems to be "luck of the draw" there from my experience.

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[Post 3350]
Author : dicko2
Date : 01-19-06 10:45 AM

I've tried both the 653274147 and the 100102 methods for resetting the guide and I've never seen them do anything. If I go into the guide diagnostics using 753159852 afterwards, I see no differences in any of the data shown.

The only way I've been able to reliably reset the guide is with the "select" and "left arrow" keys on the front panel and then reseting the whole machine. That of course erases all stored recordings too.

dickm

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[Post 3494]
Author : UncD2000
Date : 02-25-06 08:13 AM

Each of six different 3410A's that I had over a 15-month period (4 2003 351- models, 2 2004 451- models, FW 1.12, 1.15, 1.17) exhibited the same problems: difficulty downloading guide, guide absent for extended periods, "Invalid channel" message, very slow channel change, several varieties of lockup. I was using the 2-sec unplug several times a day, changing Zipcodes, entering 100102, etc.

Suddenly in early December my Host Channel changed to WTTW (PBS) and the problems just vanished on both of my surviving units. There has not been the slightest glitch in nearly 3 months, and guide function has been flawless. This backs up my longtime theory that corrupted data from the Host Channel confuses the 3410A, and none of the various FW updates has had the slightest effect on that built-in flaw.

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Longer story longer, this is supposed to reset the TV Guide.
It seems to work sometimes.
This may be a product of bad data more than a bad unit.

That's all I know for sure, which isn't much :)

Timmer

Interesting. I tried the 100102 trick several times. No joy. Which makes me more suspicious mine is hardware related. I should be able to do some electrical troubleshooting soon with Jan's help. Most likely after the holidays before I get the time though.

I have owned 3 of these since the beginning. I returned 2 for exchanges and finally gave up trying to make these operate like a normal CE product. Because the investment is so large and the PQ is so superb, I do the unplug replufg trick daily and I still must be careful to make sure programs record when they should if I use the Guide. I believe there is some feature of the updates to the newer TVGOS that makes ours go awry. I do not believe it is a failure of a component. I believe that those who should be aware of how the older version is affected are unaware and therefore have not attempted to rewrite the software to resolve our agony. Then of course there is the view that says that those of us who get frustrated but still want to time shift will buy newer machines. That way everybody else is happy except us. All I can say with certainty is that the Comcast DVR I have runs rings around this box. Looking at things from 2007 instead of 2003, I see how the Korean factories cut corners. This is becoming a widespread issue. Look at the LG and Samsung dual format HD DVD/BluRay players. Hardly anything works as promised when they are released. Yes, the 3410 for me represents the beginning of a big step backwards in terms of manufacturing honesty. I can remember when the failure of 1 or 2 units in 100 was considered terrible. Today, the customer expects to have features not working upon delivery. He is asked to wait for promised updates or left to flounder with unfulfilled expectations. .

Kind of agree with you Art.

I have my own hit list, one of which I can design around (power supply headroom), and one of which I can't (YC timing issue of SD recordings).

TVG V7 (from the transmission side of things) went through a bugfix last year, that improved V7 data transmissions..... I only wish that this bugfix had happened 3 years ago.

At this point in time, I believe that the issues we're dealing with are TVG, not LG, firmware issues.
To the best of my knowledge, TVG cannot be re-loaded, or updated.

Jan-

I just might be getting the guide info for my Panny EH75V's 9th gen. guide from WBBM digital now. The host channel is listed as "0:0-2".

Maybe not, though - I just don't know for sure what that could mean.

I've been complaining about TVGOS problems for a while now. Interestingly, they started at the beginning of the PBS pledge period, and now that that's over, TVGOS is working flawlessly. Hmmm? Never had problems like losing the clock back before PBS took over as host.

...
All I can say with certainty is that the Comcast DVR I have runs rings around this box. Looking at things from 2007 instead of 2003, I see how the Korean factories cut corners. This is becoming a widespread issue. Look at the LG and Samsung dual format HD DVD/BluRay players. Hardly anything works as promised when they are released. Yes, the 3410 for me represents the beginning of a big step backwards in terms of manufacturing honesty.
...
Art-
You're absolutely correct, except it isn't just Korean products. Phillips, Sony, Toshiba, and just about everybody else ships products that have major problems. Heck, even the first DVD players had crippling problems. More recently...Sony's Blu-Ray players were introduced about two years before they were ready because Toshiba decided it needed to ship its HD DVD players early in 2006, even though they were not really ready.

I trace the beginning of the decline in consumer electronics to the day we started moving away from our tube TVs. 10 years ago only a few, brave souls had 'home theaters'. It was a massive effort to get everything working together. Digital TVs made this easier in some ways, but the rate of innovation and the consumer demand for flashier specs has meant that no manufacturer has had time to add the finishing touches to their products - or ever get them working - before they leave the door.

Perhaps we can blame most of the problems on the fact electronics now must include increasingly complex computer programs. For example, a VCR worked fine without a TV Guide while our 3410A's are almost ruined because of it. Also, today's electronics have to be married with other electronics. I am sure HDMI is the biggest backwards step we've ever made and I cannot believe we have to put up with it.

Anyway, I've completely stopped using my 3410A and find my TivoHD a superior solution. It does so many things right, but having the Tivo on my network, being able to archive shows to my PC, and then play them back on the Tivo is a joy.

With Clear-QAM, is there any way to EDIT & SAVE only those certain Sub-Channels that you watch under a major channel?

My able operateor, Cox CAble Santa Barbara, has theHD Locals on Sub-Channels with stations I do not wamt to SAVE to my Channel Map:

i.e. 84.2 ABC, 84.11 a useless shopping channel.

As far as I can tell, you can only EDIT & SAVE "84" and then you get anything and everythng on 84.1-84.XXX, whether you want it or not.

Thanks in advance.

As far as I can tell, you can only EDIT & SAVE "84" and then you get anything and everythng on 84.1-84.XXX, whether you want it or not.

If you to try to use the 3410's label function to label those individual channels with their respective network logos, you will get only one or the other. For example, 63-9 is my local Fox HD channel, 63-7 is my local CBS HD channel but the channel label is for Fox on both 63-x channels.

If you to try to use the 3410's label function to label those individual channels with their respective network logos, you will get only one or the other. For example, 63-9 is my local Fox HD channel, 63-7 is my local CBS HD channel but the channel label is for Fox on both 63-x channels.

I don't care that much about the logo, I just want to know if there's a way to SAVE only the sub-channels within a major channel that I want and SKIP or DELETE the rest:

i.e. 84.2 SAVE; 84.4 SAVE- all other 84.11 SKIP or DELETE

I don't care that much about the logo, I just want to know if there's a way to SAVE only the sub-channels within a major channel that I want and SKIP or DELETE the rest:

i.e. 84.2 SAVE; 84.4 SAVE- all other 84.11 SKIP or DELETEI'm pretty sure there isn't. The LG seems to rescan a channel every time it lands on it. When a local station added a second subchannel my other receivers needed a manual rescan to get it, but the LG could show it immediately with a channel-up.

Last week I was contacted by a fellow with 3 x 3410a's. Two of them won't receive data at all, even after "First Birthday" and re-programming. They take the configuration data, and on power off the data light comes on, but after it finds the appropriate channels, it still says "No Listings" after a day or more of data-getting.
After that, the Data light still comes on when powered off, but never updates the listings... "No Listings".

I'm doing all diagnostics via email, and that is not as efficient as having it in front of me....

He may be dropping one off at my house for testing purposes... He's still considering what to do.

Here's what my Plan of attack would be if I get to 'look' at it:
1. First Birthday again, and set it up for my configuration, on known good RF Feeds, and try again.
2. If not, check power supply, then repeat #1 if caps changed.
3. If not, re-load firmware, and then repeat #1.
4. ___________________?

I'm open to other suggestions anyone else may have...

Jan,

I too have 3 units. There is no getting around the fact that if you are using one of these in the Baltimore, Washington, DC, Northern Va area, you will need to unplug/replug daily to get the units to operate at all. The guide will work as long as one is fastidious about the unplug replug. IMHO the key to keeping these things working is dilligence. I can get good results indefinitely if I make sure that before I go to bed, the guide light is on and that by noon the next day it is on. I believe our version of th TVGOS became obsolete soon after they stopped supporting the 3410A. If you want to keep using it, you must be prepared to work.

I believe our version of th TVGOS became obsolete soon after they stopped supporting the 3410A.Absolutely not true.

There are people with other units using the 7th gen. TVGOS that the LG uses that are having no problem whatsoever. Just check in the DVD Recorders sub-forum if you'd like.

It has to have something to do with the way it's implemented in this particular unit.

Absolutely not true.

There are people with other units using the 7th gen. TVGOS that the LG uses that are having no problem whatsoever. Just check in the DVD Recorders sub-forum if you'd like.

It has to have something to do with the way it's implemented in this particular unit.

I thought that is what I said. Perhaps it needed clarification. Those f us 3410A early adopters are granted some leeway in explaining its shortcomings. Hate, frustration and depression can cloud our descriptions of this units many shortcomings.

Hey guys,

I just got a LST-3410A from someone on eBay. While the tuner works a great and I am able to manually record and time shift programming, I am experiencing the following problems. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated:

1) If I press the “TV Guide” or “VCRPlus+” buttons on my remote, nothing happens. I know the button presses are registering because a little green circle is light on the console whenever a button on the remote is pressed.

I tried accessing the TVG feature from the menus and even the console of the device itself to no avail. I assumed the device was just configured in a screwy way from its life with its previous owner, so I performed a reset of the device. (IE: pressed “left” and “shift” buttons on console, selected last option and ran it.) This did not address the problem because I did not get a menu asking to configure the TVGuide. (Hense, I cannot continue "first birthday" fix.)

While going through parts of this 4,800 message thread, I read somewhere that a person ran into a similar issue with their device and the conclusion was that a card that handles the EPG had become defective. I’m not sure if this is true, but I’d like to hear what suggestions other people have or what other things I can try to correct this problem.


2) When viewing a DTV program in "letterbox" ratio mode, I noticed that the background is grey instead of black. (This color is not set by the TV station.) Is there any way to change this color?


Other than that, this unit looks good. DTV works fine. DVR records and plays back well. I just can't manually set record times to automatically record my favorite TV shows because the EPG is inaccessible. Arg!

I would greatly appreciate any help you can provide. Thanks!



- - - - - - - - -

In addition to the LST-3410A, I also have the LST-4200 and the LST-3510A. If anyone is interested in a comparison of these units, I can provide. (I am amazed at the differences of three products that came out about the same time from the same company.)

Ex:
- 3510 and 4200 grab DTV program information and schedules from the TV station directly. 3410 using the TVGuide.
- The 3410 tunes in channels a lot slower than the 3510 or 4200.
- If output is set to "crop", the 3410 and 4200 will only crop the image for non-SD channels. The 3510 will crop the programming for all channels, including SD programming. (No idea why this is even a feature... completely useless.)
- On the 4200, the audio for DTV stations are very quiet when compared to their analog counterpart. Issue not present with other units. (Have to set my TV volume to 40 of 50 when watching digital programming!)
- 3510 has animated icons when a top level menu item is highlighted. For the other units, it is static.
- 3510 has a near transparent background for all dialog boxes. For the other units, it is a solid grey color.
- 3510 has not “enter” button near the numerical keys. In other words, if you want to access channel “25-2”, you press 2, 5, ‘-‘, 2, and then wait a few seconds. Other units, pressing “enter” registered this channel request with unit.

Go back a page or two from the end, and printout the instructions I posted, and the reply that followed.
It will show 4-5 differing levels of reset.

Personally, I'd First Birthday the unit, and then start over!

If you have watched all your recorded programs, reformatting the hard drive seems to reset the TV Guide, I used to do this before I learned some of the other ways.

If none of the other ways work, worth a try. But you DO lose any recorded programs.

Well, here's my problem: in order to execute those procedures, I need to be able to access the TVG. I can't access the TVG at all! The unit does nothing if press the TVG or VCRPlus+ buttons. (On either the remote or on the unit itself.) The only thing i can do is perform a factory reset. I'd like to execute the "first birthday" to completion but can't because I cannot access the TVG.

Is there anything that I can do to reactivate the TVG that does not require me to access the TVG?

Or better yet, based on the collective experience of this group, can we declare this unit's EPG defective beyond reasonable repair? (By "beyond reasonable", I mean desoldering components, etc. I'm ok with plugging/unpluging cables and flipping dip switches.) From what I read, people are reporting data retrieval issues with the TVG, but nothing like me being "lock-out" from the feature altogether.

Would it help if I posted a video clip online?

EDIT:
I will be opening the unit tomorrow to look for loose cables and the like. Perhaps it is something as silly as a disconnected power cable?

wacko,

What you describe has happened to me. It required a "factory reset". Follow the instructions Jan provided going very slow to allow time for electronics to "rest or reset" to their original factory settings. At one time or another my 3 units have looked like they would never operate again. After a period of time, a complte reset which includes taking reset actions in the "hidden " menu, they come back. It may even take weeks. I have had 2.5 week periods of guide malfuncttion. Do not give up!!!!!

Or better yet, based on the collective experience of this group, can we declare this unit's EPG defective beyond reasonable repair? (By "beyond reasonable", I mean desoldering components, etc. I'm ok with plugging/unpluging cables and flipping dip switches.) From what I read, people are reporting data retrieval issues with the TVG, but nothing like me being "lock-out" from the feature altogether.

Would it help if I posted a video clip online?



Being locked out of TVG and VCR+ is incredibly common; the only thing more common is "no listings." The issue is what type of reset is required to get access back. For me, usually the unplug/replug power cord works.

Have you tried the 100102 entry on EZscan menu (that NEVER worked for me)? Have you tried reformatting the hard drive (you lose any recorded programs)?

I wouldn't give up until you have tried every resetting option. It's a great recorder but the TVG is a complete POS. Frankly, I'd prefer to reliably DISABLE it in a way that the VCR+ button ALWAYS works, and it NEVER hangs itself up while waiting to record a show.

Wacko:
How to issue a real Factory Reset (What I call a "First Birthday") to the 3410a:

The following is done from the front of the unit, NOT with remote:

Turn the 3410a off. Wait 10 Seconds, and turn it back on again...
After the Hard Drive space Icon shows up, Change the Display Format to "VIDEO"
On Front of 3410a, Press "Left" button and "Select" button Simultaneously.
You should see "DIAGMODE:TS" on the front panel display. If Not, Press "Left" and "Select" again (some machines do it on first press, others take twice).
Now press the "Upper" Button
Then Press the "Select" Button
Then Press the "Select" Button a 2nd time.
You should see "WAIT:TS" and after a while "GOOD:TS"

Jan,

How does this differ from doing it on the service menu? That's how I've always done it.

Same as Manual... My reference to "First Birthday" is a phrase used by another company, Ampex, with regard to a reset that initializes all Customize-able Ram for configurations....

Jan,

I've tried the "first birthday" procedure that you mentioned several times last night and I am still locked out. Does it make a difference if I just press "left-select" at any random time, or is timing really that critical? I've tried pressing the "left select" after the unit was one for a day, immediately after reboot, after the HDD light comes on, etc. no matter what I do, TVG does not activiate. (However, I've noticed that the EZScan feature works after some factory resets, but not on others.)

Does it make a difference if I am connected to a normal SD TV or should I be using an HDTV or a normal TV?


I'll try that '100102" code and anything else I can find on this forum tonight. (Would have done so last night if i did not come home from work so late.)

FWIW,

For 4 days I have "No Listings" regardless of what I do. I have unplugged/replugged to unlock the machine so I can get rid of the AV1.... display and use VCR+ timer.

I have just bought a new setup for my living room and have a 3410 i have owned since it was new. I was wondering if anyone knew what it would be worth to sell on ebay, etc. It has the occasional "invalid channel" pop up but i have never tried what i have read here on it. other than that it still even has the plastic over the front panel. Thanks for the help.

The reason many of us were so attracted to this DVR was that at the time it was the only device that would record HD from cable and OTA. If they had left off the TV Guide and dcut the price in half, this might have been a big seller. The TV Guide inplementation is so bad that it affects even basic functions like viewing and audio. We have been unable to find a solution to the poor performance. Every other DVR available today works better than the 3410A. The latest insult for me is that when I attempt a DVI/HDMI connection to my new Integra 9.8 Controller, I get a "DVI Lockout" sign for 4-5 min. Eventually, sometimes, it will connect and everything then works fine. But geez....!!!!!!! This is now od technology. I have 3 of them in use. My 93 year old father loves his but he does not use the guide or the DVR. I use both and have problems daily. The only reddeming quality is its PQ. Second to none.!!!!!! Love it.

I would give you $20.00 for it if you pay the shipping. Others might pay more. Not trying to be funny but frankly, this unit's day has come and gone.

I just bought one on eBay. This unit would kick butt if I could only access the darn VCRPlus+ feature. (Final sale of this unit is contingent on me getting this feature to work.) The only reasons why I bought this unit were because:

1) only HD "tivo" device on market that does not require you to pay a monthly fee to use it. (Minus the one by Sony.) Pioneer has some, but it is an SD ATSC unit.
2) has excellent HDTV recording quality.
3) has "scene skip" feature. Excellent for watching football games. TIVO does not have this because advertisers complained people would not see their ads.

I would only sell yours if the "VCRPlus+" function works, otherwise it's a expensive device to just pause live TV and do manual recordings. (Just inform customer that the TVGuide feature will stop working after Feb 2009 unless they have cable, then the unit will probally fail before the stop broadcasting TV show info off of cable.)

Hi;

The 3410A has got to be the quirkiest electronic component ever produced and its recurring inability to access TVGOS w/o an accurate clock a classic Catch 22 since TVGOS is the only way to set the clock!

Anyway, I've learned most of the techniques to beat the 3410A into submission so it actually works most of the time (until, of course, the next power outage!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
But there's another unusual issue related to the 3410A which I wonder if anyone else has experienced:

In my area PBS' unencrypted QAM channels are 82-1 through 3 and 82-5. (82-4 is an unrelated commercial station.) These 5 are all the subchannels for Ch. 82.

82-2 is the new Spanish language PBS channel, V-Me. Most of the time but not always, precisely on the hour, if the 3410A is tuned to any 82-X channel (except 82-2) the picture begins to pixalate in a rectangle in a corner (like the field of stars in Old Glory) and then everywhere and within a second or two shows the V-Me program. The channel number doesn't change. To get back to other 82-X channels the 3410A must be tuned away from the selected channel and then back to it. Cycling through the line inputs works too.

I have a Sony DHG-HDD/500 w/o CablCARDS which receives the same cable subchannels as the 3410A but doesn't exhibit the V-Me glitch.

I have a TiVo S3 w/o CableCARDS which used to exhibit the V-Me glitch. However a month or more ago, the S3 began to receive digital cable OTA simulcasts using their OTA channel numbers (w/o EPG data) and the V-Me glitch disappeared. (Now S3 doesn't even recognize Ch. 82 or other cable channel numbers which the TVGOS recorders use. Perhaps this is related to PSIP data processing?)

I called both Comcast Cable and PBS, but essentially got nowhere. I really doubt that anyone here will have a solution either, but thought it another interesting 3410A quirk. Fortunately the quirk only exists on Ch. 82 AFAIK. Unfortunately Ch 82-5 is PBS's hi-def channel, one of the best!

I'm not saying it is worth $20, nor $400, but somewhere in-between.
Last year I paid $220 and $150 for two.

Presently (Knock on wood) all 3 of mine are working quite nicely, with no problems.
Of course, now that I've mentioned that, you watch!!! :)!

However, I know of a user not too far away from me, getting his TVG data from the same transmitters that I am, with 3 34310a's, and 2 show they are getting data, but don't show any data in TVG ("No Listing"), and the other one works fine. I've shared information with him on re-setting the unit, but still no joy at his house.

Then we gave Art with 3, and all have to be power cycled each night. ????

I'm waiting until the user near me throws his hands up in disgust, and I get to have some hands on time with this.... To determine if it is a component failure, power supply problem, or something odd with the way he has it hooked up (or configured) at his house. Maybe once I get one of them here to 'play' with, maybe then I can determine what is going on.
I'm curious about what is going on..... Multiple units acting identically could point to a common failure, and I'd like to know what it is, in case it happens to me! (Greedy Reasons, I know!) :)!

??

I have a 3410a which works just fine and has for many years, but I have never been able to get the TVG on it. Just gave up and use the newspaper listings to decide what to record---usually have it set to record crime/cop shows on CBS, while my two Sony HDTV units record other programming. Have tried the usual unplug, reboot, etc, all to no avail. If you come up with a magic fix, let me know!

Suggestion for posting...
Post your location, and if you know the channel that TVG V7 is transmitted on....
I can speak for Chicagoland, but not other locations.

Jan,

My 3 are all posting "No Listing" but as long as I replug, I can use them.

I have another interesting issue.

I just purchased an Integra 9.8 Controller. The 9.8 reports "DVI Blocked" when one tries to connect via DVI/HDMI. Our machine is just pain out of date guys. I did find a "work around but it is not pretty. It involves setting the HDMI Out of f the controller to "1080p" rather than "Through". Also, the delay time to get a DD lock via optical exceeds 5 sec.

Y'know, a year or so ago, I had the same problem with my Sony DVR's guide. It would only keep the guide data for a few hours or a day at most, everytime I reset it. I finally traced it to the fact that I was taking the analog host channel that came up after the initial setup, and assigning the (equivalent) digital channel's number to it. Then I would search in the channel editor for another, blank "WTTW" (the station), and assign the analog channel number to that one. When I finally just left the original one as is and assigned the digital channel number to the one hidden in the channel editor instead, the problem righted itself immediately.

Don't know if that would apply to anyone here in any way, but I just thought I'd share that.

Art, are you saying your 3 units are all showing "No Listing" even though you see the "Data" light go on?

If yes, that sounds like the same symptoms the fella up here by me has, except 2 of his 3 are doing it, and the 3rd is running normally...

That is beginning to sound like a component failure (If it has to be, hopefully something simple like a cap that dried out, and not coupling a signal... Now wouldn't that be nice???)

Art... I've got to be perfectly honest with you...

If a device does not pass an HDMI signal (for example, 3410a on DVI output, with a DVI/HDMI cable on it)....

The Problem ISN'T the 3410a.... That (For once) is doing it's job. It is the RECEIVING device believing that you are trying to copy a copy protected HDMI signal!

Do a Search on "HDMI Consortium" in Google... Their reason for being is Positively Scary!!!

I am AVOIDING HDMI at all costs! The HDMI interfaces are designed to BLOCK any signal that it doesn't fully understand, in the OFF CHANCE that it is playing back a COPY PROTECTED program.

I've encountered this at work. We feed HDSDI images with multiple images to a device that converts HDSDI to DVI, and in turn , connect a DVI to HDMI cable to many, many DLP's in control rooms, for monitoring 'walls'.

At Home, my 3410a DVI output, with DVI/HDMI cable works fine on my Mitsubishi 62525 DLP.
At Work, HDSDI (Used for tranmission up to 325 feet from sending device) to a HDSDI/DVI converter, with a DVI/HDMI cable on it, connected to Samsung 67" DLP (forgot model #), WORKS FINE!!!
Same Signal, Same interface, Same DVI/HDMI cable DOES NOT WORK on Mitsubishi 67" DLP... The Mits 67" THINKS we are moving Copy Protected Video (We ARE--We're a Television NETWORK, We're ALLOWED TO DO THIS!) so it blanks the screen!!!
Call Mits... THEY DON'T CARE!!! IT DID IT'S JOB.

And Just because a product TODAY doesn't block a HDMI signal, it doesn't mean that the next firmware version or Product version won't!
They have designed in capability for products to make the decision on it's own (To Block a signal), and that leaves the consumer 'holding the bag' if they encounter this.

I'm guessing that there is data in the HDMI header that indicates "Consumer" or "Protected", and if the device doesn't see that data, it probably blocks it out of "Concern" for the HDMI Consortium.

This is a reason where "Machine Smarter than Operator" doesn't help the consumer.

I think we covered this once before, about 6 months back...

I will do the LEAST AMOUNT of HDMI as Possible at home, because I'm convinced that software bugs are rampant in the Format as implemented by MFG's, and if it "kicks in" inadvertantly, Manufacturer's are NOT going to assist you with rectifying the problem.
Therefore, I AVOID HDMI as much as possible!!!

End of Rant!

FWIW,

For 4 days I have "No Listings" regardless of what I do. I have unplugged/replugged to unlock the machine so I can get rid of the AV1.... display and use VCR+ timer.

MrHifi,

I'm in DC with Comcast cable and experiencing the same "no listings" as you mentioned above with one of my two units. The unit that is connected to cable only is receiving listings fine, albeit with an ocassional (not daily) unplug/replug. The second unit is connected to cable and OTA antenna, this one has had no listings for about a week. The soft resets and unplug/replug do not help. This has happened before and is generally bad guide data that takes about a couple of weeks to correct itself. Ironically the other unit seems to be less prone to daily need for a soft reset.

I may try unplugging the OTA antenna and see if that helps the second unit.

I still get the ocassional AVI...display on both units, which the unplug/replug corrects. Still a pain but love the picture quality.

-James

Art... I've got to be perfectly honest with you...

If a device does not pass an HDMI signal (for example, 3410a on DVI output, with a DVI/HDMI cable on it)....

The Problem ISN'T the 3410a.... That (For once) is doing it's job. It is the RECEIVING device believing that you are trying to copy a copy protected HDMI signal!

Do a Search on "HDMI Consortium" in Google... Their reason for being is Positively Scary!!!

I am AVOIDING HDMI at all costs! The HDMI interfaces are designed to BLOCK any signal that it doesn't fully understand, in the OFF CHANCE that it is playing back a COPY PROTECTED program.

Jan,

Two of my 3410a's have been connected several ways. When I first bought them, I used a DWIN HD700 CRT prjector with a Transcanner.

I've encountered this at work. We feed HDSDI images with multiple images to a device that converts HDSDI to DVI, and in turn , connect a DVI to HDMI cable to many, many DLP's in control rooms, for monitoring 'walls'.

At Home, my 3410a DVI output, with DVI/HDMI cable works fine on my Mitsubishi 62525 DLP.
At Work, HDSDI (Used for tranmission up to 325 feet from sending device) to a HDSDI/DVI converter, with a DVI/HDMI cable on it, connected to Samsung 67" DLP (forgot model #), WORKS FINE!!!
Same Signal, Same interface, Same DVI/HDMI cable DOES NOT WORK on Mitsubishi 67" DLP... The Mits 67" THINKS we are moving Copy Protected Video (We ARE--We're a Television NETWORK, We're ALLOWED TO DO THIS!) so it blanks the screen!!!
Call Mits... THEY DON'T CARE!!! IT DID IT'S JOB.

And Just because a product TODAY doesn't block a HDMI signal, it doesn't mean that the next firmware version or Product version won't!
They have designed in capability for products to make the decision on it's own (To Block a signal), and that leaves the consumer 'holding the bag' if they encounter this.

I'm guessing that there is data in the HDMI header that indicates "Consumer" or "Protected", and if the device doesn't see that data, it probably blocks it out of "Concern" for the HDMI Consortium.

This is a reason where "Machine Smarter than Operator" doesn't help the consumer.

I think we covered this once before, about 6 months back...

I will do the LEAST AMOUNT of HDMI as Possible at home, because I'm convinced that software bugs are rampant in the Format as implemented by MFG's, and if it "kicks in" inadvertantly, Manufacturer's are NOT going to assist you with rectifying the problem.
Therefore, I AVOID HDMI as much as possible!!!

End of Rant!



Jan,

Two of my 3410a's have been connected several ways. When I first bought them, I used a DWIN HD700 CRT prjector with a Transcanner. I used the VGA RGBHV connectors. This provided outstanding images. I used the third 3410A on a Sony KDK32XBR950 flat panel LCD with an external box. This system made use of the YPrPb (Component) connectionn. Picture was outstanding.

A year ago I purchased an Optoma HD81 and now I own an Optoma HD81-LV. Both have external scaler/switchers resembling the Optoma VXP3000. The VXP has 3 HDMI inputs and a myriad of other inputs. It also has an external loop capability via HDMI which permits you to send all signals going into the VXP out to a processor and back to te VXP. The HDMI signal then travels to the device that contains the bulb, fan, lens and coor wheel. All signals wind up at 1080p. The projector can also accept 24p (be forced). I have an Integra 9.8 in this loop. The HDMI from the 3 devices that have HDMI audio capability, my Toshiba A35, Panasonic 30 and the latest motorola Comcast DVR connect to the 3 HDMI inputs of the VXP. The chosen signal from one of the 3 inputs loops out and goes to an HDMI in on the processor. There the audio is analyzed and converted/decoded and eventually sent to 8 channels of amplification. The video returns via the HDMI return part of the loop to the VXP.. This all works perfectly. All I have to do is select the input I want on the VXP and I get the correct audio and video. Although not connected that way now, I should mention that when I connected dthe 3410A's directly to the VXP's HDMI inputs, everything worke perfectly.

The two DVI video feeds from the two 3410's are connected to the Integra 9.8 via a DVI to HDMI cable. The audio travels via an optical line from the 3410A to the 9.8. I apply a 15 msec delay to the audio to achieve correct lip sync. There are two wayto process HDMI video in the 9.8. I can select "Through" which sends the incoming HDMI signal from the VXP loop through the 9.8 and back to the VXP without processing. It can be anything from 480i to 1080p. The second method uses the same dsignal path but the 9.8 is set to output a resolution of 1080p. That means that the signal the VXP always sees is at 1080p. The former setup gives me a "DVI BLOCKED" message with the video signal blinking on and off. It is unwatchable. If I uuse the second setup. I get a perfect connection. There is no reason why this happens. It does though.

You might ask why I changed over to the Integra 9.8. The reason is simple. Now, using the connections described previously, I am able to utilize a total of 6 HDMI connections and decode every Audio Codec available on BluRay and HD VDV and SACD discs.

The delays waiting for the initial HDMI handshake for audio and video can be ridiculously long, lasting 30 seconds sometimes. Typically, it takes 5-8 sec to hear the audio after a stable picture is achieved.

Jan,

that was a good rant :D and I agree with your sentiments. The consumer is definitely getting the shaft on this, and paying the price both financially and in usability. Many HDMI implementations are seriously broken, and the manufacturers simply don't care. ("Hey, there'll be a new product next year. Why waste any time on this one?")

Art,

those delays are ridiculous, and painful. We're talking about MHz+ controllers in these units, so what can possibly be taking so long?

- Tim

Mr HiFi,

Im also getting "no listing." (Detroit, PBS 56.0). After a replug, guide light goes on, but no listing. Usually after a day, guide light goes out. I use VCR+. When I can't access it, it has had an AV1 error and needs another unplug/replug.

If the guide works (for a while) and you plan a recoding via guide, if it goes into "no listing" failure, it will skip the recording. If you program via VCR+, it will record unless it has a AV1 error, so the VCR+ timed mode is a little more reliable. I no longer use the guide for recording even when it worked.

In any case, another user who hasn't had guide data for weeks, in spite of lots of unplugging.

So it would appear that there are Multiple users that get "NO LISTING" In TVG, even though they are getting the "DATA" indicator.

I'll prod the fellow with 3, with 2 of them with "No Listing" again, to see if I he will part with one for a while....

So it would appear that there are Multiple users that get "NO LISTING" In TVG, even though they are getting the "DATA" indicator.

I'll prod the fellow with 3, with 2 of them with "No Listing" again, to see if I he will part with one for a while....

Hi Jan,

I disconnected unit 1 from OTA antenna and using cable only as with unit 2. I did a softreset (TVG reset code 653214741) and for the first time in a week got the select lineup screen. I will check tomorrow to see if any guide data downloads.

-James

Of significance, at least to me, is the fact that the Comcast DVR which receives the same TV Guide Data on the same coax, continues to work perfectly by providing updated TVGOS data. Meanwhile both 3410A's have "No Listing" entries. Sad if you ask me.

I received an email from the fellow who has 2 of 3 with "No Listings"... He is going to drop them off at my house sometime this week.

Both get No Listings, but one of the 2 bad units also powers off on it's own. (That one is a candidate for Power Supply overhaul).

I don't have the units yet....

I'm in Detroit area also, only OTA, but have not had any problems with the guide or other for pobably the last 4 months. I just recorded some programs on Saturday using the guide. I assume my guide channel is still 56-0.

I admit, though, that every time I turn it on I'm expecting to see No Listings, and am suprised when there are listings.

I too have had good luck with TVGOS for the last few months and have made many recordings using the guide. What got me kind of weary though was checking listings for this Wednesday when scrolling through the guide I got 'No Listing' on every channel except for a synopsis for the Spongebob Squarepants episode at 8 for Wednesday evening(??). Guide light is on at this moment so I'm not going to check whether last night's recording worked. I've gotten paranoid as to when to turn on the machine; it's only turned on when the Guide light is off.

My guide works perfectly for the most part. The only trick is I either have to be watching or recording something between 6-6:30 p.m. everyday or the guide won't start up in the evening (if that happens, I do the old 653214741 reset code and all is good).

My LG gets a great signal. It can pick up some stations reliably that my brand new 4665 Samsung LCD can't even tune in. I only wish I could watch pre-recorded programs while recording something else.

One of my 2 units is now missing programmed/scheduled recordings. I have been using the timer to record since I am plagued with No Listings lately. I am convinced all of this occurs because of varying TVGOS implementation at diffrent stations.

Mine has missed a few. My experience is that this only happens if an AV1 error has occured between when I set timer and the start of show. Obviously, I can't set the timer when I'm not there, but I try to delay setting the timer until as close to the start of show as my schedule allows. This gives less time for AV1 error to pop in.

I used to set up recordings for days or a week at a time. Now I would only do this if I'm out of town. I'm hoping VCR+ will be MORE reliable when analog goes away, and TVGOS with it.

Fellow who has 2 of 3 units with "No Listing".
I believe I will get worst of machines This Weekend. (No Listing and shutoff problems).
His two remaining units, one that works, and one that has No Listings.... He swapped positions of them at his house, in off chance it is antenna cable related.

One of my 2 units is now missing programmed/scheduled recordings. I have been using the timer to record since I am plagued with No Listings lately. I am convinced all of this occurs because of varying TVGOS implementation at diffrent stations.

Hi Art,

I'm in DC using Comcast and guide data is back since I did a soft reset two days ago and got the lineup screen. Let me know if got your guide data also.

-James

I recorded 3 programs successfulyy using the timer. No Listings yet but maybe tomorrow. I connect o Comacast-Annapolis

I have 4 of these. Listings are not a problem (OTA Antenna) One seems to record intermittaltly not finishing the program or recording nothing. A second has problems messing up the hard drive which consistaltly wants to reformat or "initalize" Not the drive as it has done this with several. At least the tuner in that one works. I had set up to record HD using the 169 time computer and modified C band HD sidecar. Real PITA. Got the setup mainly for late night recording after going to bed. Better off just buying the HD DVD's. The 3410A has great features if operational but has probably the worst problem record of any piece of equipment I ever owned. Shame they never got it right with a new model.

We've had recordings end early a enough times, and eventually discovered when it wasn't a schedule change at the station that didn't ripple down to TVG, it was the clock in the 3410a that was wrong. Of course you won't know that this has happened, because the clock was correct at that time of recording ("IN" point of recording OK, only "OUT" Point of recording was bad... However, we found that, after a recording that ended early, if we shut unit down, Un-plugged it, waited 10-20 seconds, and powered it up again....... that the clock (when it came up ~10 seconds after plug-in), would display a Different Time (and this usually coincided with the error in the recording).....

Going into menu, and resetting time there fixed it...

I have noticed that This happens more often in V1.15 than V1.17 firmware, by the way.

Eureka!!!!!!!! I have listings on 2 machines. Had to unplug/replug to get Guide light up and therrefore release the machine to be able to record properly.

Jan,

I am not sure I completely understood your comment about time setting. Like you, I have the last 2 minutes cut off every program. Never rnoticed that times were not correct. In fact I am sure they agree with each other and with 3 SVHS VCR's and a C Bandd Satellite receiver. They do not drift. However, they are 1-2 min behind the VCR's. I find dthat strange because all 4 machines receive clock update via the cable. The 922 Satellite receiver gets its time via satellite central, a division of motorola. It is always off when compared to NTIS.

When we encounter issues with recordings that End before their scheduled 'out' time...

For example: Set it to record CH7-1 from 8PM To 9PM (Which means 3410a will turn on at 7:58P, Change Channel and go into record at 7:59P, and should normally exit record at 9PM (if another program is scheduled) or 9:01PM (If no other program scheduled to be recorded), and turn off at 9:02 (If no other program is scheduled to be recorded).

Let's say that when we view this recording, it is only 53 minutes long (Program recorded ended early). At this point the clock on 3410a matches any other clock in the house.
We've also noticed that subsequent recordings may also be shorter than what was programed, as well.

When we encounter this senerio, I then (after we're done viewing) turn unit off, unplug AC, wait 10-20 seconds, re-Plug AC, and then watch for clock to display...

When Clock displays, we have found that when a "shortened" recording has been made, that power cycling the system reveals the clock may come back with the wrong time.
Again, prior to pulling plug, the time indicated correctly.

We've found that resetting the time in the Menu fixes this issue.

We've also noticed that it appears that V1.15 firmware is more apt to do this than V1.17 firmware does.

I agree with all your observations and the infrences you draw. However. I believe that the clock comes back with an erroneous time for a number of reasons, not the least of which is that whatever keeps the clock's time memory alive (it used to be a capacitor or a small bettery in the VCR days) may be getting near the end of its useful life.

"When Clock displays, we have found that when a "shortened" recording has been made, that power cycling the system reveals the clock may come back with the wrong time.
Again, prior to pulling plug, the time indicated correctly."

Jan, I can't figure out what you are saying here. Please clarify.

We've found that resetting the time in the Menu fixes this issue.

I ended up talking to a technical support fellow today, and he mentioned that plans are underway to support "VBI from MPEG" in certain set-top boxes, that will convert V9 Digital TVG to V8 & V7 analog TVG data, for us users...

Jan,
Would that include boxes with 1.15?

The guide on my 3410A's works fairly well (OTA). The same guide in my Toshiba 62HM94 reloads all found channels everytime it updates so I have to go back and delete a ton of unwatchable channels from the guide every day or so. REal pain. Am I to understand the guide OTA will not function after 2009 ?????? What is this a cable conspiricy?

The guide on my 3410A's works fairly well (OTA). The same guide in my Toshiba 62HM94 reloads all found channels everytime it updates so I have to go back and delete a ton of unwatchable channels from the guide every day or so. REal pain. Am I to understand the guide OTA will not function after 2009 ?????? What is this a cable conspiricy?

More of a government conspiracy, actually. :D

Considering so many people's 3410A guides don't work now (mine included), I don't think there's going to be too much consternation over this. At least it will still tune in and record something, which is more than about a bazillion TVs, VCRs and DVD recorders are going to be able to do.

This to Dan Kolton:
All 3410a's!

Firmware differences in 3410a are for 3410a bugs, NOT TVG bugs. There is no way (I know of) to reload, upgrade or downgrade TVG Firmware (Because it involves external hardware interfaces, as well as software files).

He said you'd hook up an antenna to one of the "Converter Boxes" that would have "VBI From MPEG" built into it. That would do the conversion to a SD channel your DVR would then decode via the RF inputof 3410a. Possibly not every "Converter Boxes" will support "VBI From MPEG", it's too early to tell which will or won't.

EDIT: TRUST ME, when we get closer to 'cutoff point' I will call him again, and find out in specifics which box works best with "VBI From MPEG" and TVG V7.

At this point, this info is based upon a conversation in passing that I thought you'd be interested in. I don't have any spcifics......

OK... I now have 2 more 3410a's... Both of the No Listings (2 of 3) from the fellow in my area.
One of them V1.17, he says has 'lockup' problems, where it will suddenly Lock Up, and only a power cycle will regain control of unit (not even Power off works). I'm thinking this is a candidate for a power supply re-build. A "First Birthday"", Setup for my zipcode, and EZ-Scan was done. It is presently looking for TVG Data. First Birthday passed successfully, so it didn't find a bad board.

Other one V1.16 has Intermittant No Listings in TVG listing display. Saw this firsthand on the unit on power up here. No power issues on this unit. After examination for proper operation, V1.17 was installed in this unit, followed by a "First Birthday", Setup for my zipcode, and EZ-Scan was done. It is presently looking for TVG Data. First Birthday passed successfully, so it didn't find a bad board.

That's all for now, will check tomorrow am for cable list, next day for data, and following day for OTA channels.

Next scheduled post on these, barring unforseen problems, will be Monday PM

I own LG LST-3410A DVR set-top box, it has been working for the past 3 years...recently the front panel LED doesn't work, so i can't see if my set-top box is on or off, all LEDs are completely off.

anyone experienced this?

If i want to replace that front panel LEDs, does anyone know the part number or schematic diagram?

Is there anyway i can manually upgrade the firmware without going thru LG service? my warranty expired few years ago.

How does one go about updating the firmware version of the 3410? This must have been covered earlier in the postings, but perhaps someone could direct me to it?

Opened the box and found out the digitron (DIG101 on the PCB board, the digital LED display) is burnt! found out the part 6302RV219A at partsstore.com..going to order this part and hope i can fix this! little bit soldering is needed :-)

Examination of schematics reveals that there are THREE 3.3 supplies, two on power supply board, one on system board. All 3 are fed from 3.8 unregulated supply on power supply board.
3.3-1 feeds main CPU, sys Memory, Video Memory, MPEG Decoder.
3.3-2 feeds Memory control, MPEG encoder, Disc controller, and other less signifcant circuits.
L-3.3 feeds Gemstar, Tuner, and 1394a controller

Later

post in error. My bad!

Probably premature, but my good luck had to end sometime. The 3410 asked me to verify a correct channel lineup, whereby it froze after I pressed enter and so I powered down, then unplugged/replugged. Guide light is on. It will still work... it will still work...

Tonight's entry on the two loaner units here:

Both are getting data, and at same rate. No Listings are presently at Wed 11:30PM on both. As an experiment, I "Turned Off" as many channels that involve a cable box on one of the two units, just to see if the unit with less entries will do any different than the other unit, where it didn't. Both have successfully recorded multiple programs.

I've only looked at one supply, and when the cap order gets here, I'm thinkging I've settled on the caps I want to upgrade

At present, both are working, and with the exception of a few channels that somehow sneaked in the Logo List ( from St. Louis, MO, and Champaign Illinois no Less! ??? I'm north of Chicago)

Jan,

Both boxes operating perfectly here. They do require an unplug/replug daily but otherwise they are operating like new. No explanation for why they periodically stop getting listings, lockup, or AV1 messages. Interested in what you find out.

Art... So far my findings are the 3.3 volt regulator for Gemstar area (on Main board) has less filtering than the 3.3 volt supplies on the power supply that drive rest of unit.

I've done a change on one of the two loaner units, and that stoped the lockups totally.

I've ordered caps that I want to use as a change, but until I get them and determine that they will physically fit in the space allowed, and experiment with the 2nd loaner unit, I won't go into specifics.

I will say that the area I'm talking about is on power supply, not main board. C125, C126, and C127 are the 3 caps I'm concentrating on in this area. Also considering the 5.5 volt un-regulated area, too.

So far, I've seen 2 DVR's that would either not boot or reboot occasionally, and one that would Lock up and have to be power cycled to work again. At work I've had one LG 3100 ATSC Tuner that was stuck in "Hello" mode. (3100 has a simelar power supply to the 3410a).

In each case, a capacitor replacement in the 3.8, @ 5.5 areas got each working solid again, so I think I'm on to something...

I'm wondering if your daily un-plug is due to a Gemstar lockup (which runs on the 3.3 supply off main board, with little de-coupling).

I wish I had one extra power supply, I'd modify it and let you try it, to see if it cures your daily lockup problem....

Jan,
I'm sure we 3410 owners are all grateful for your help and your research. I 'll be very interested in your PS mod results. My box has been mostly fine since the PBS pledge period ended and they found time to pay attention to their TVGOS signal. I did require unplug/plug for a couple of days after I discovered something weird on their HD channel that looked like it wasn't meant for the outside viewer.

Parts from Digi-Key arrived today.
Now have 2 units with "revision 1" cap upgrade, and 5 units: (3 3410a's, one Prior version LG-DVR, one LG-3100 tuner) with the first cap upgrade.

Simptoms on 3 of the 7 were: Lockups while scanning TVG Screen(1), Random Reboots(2), or simply won't boot at all(2). (multiple symptoms on a couple units).....

By the way, this all started after I read John T's (From CBS) post about how his unit worked better on a UPS than plugged directly into wall outlet.

Lost all cable reception last night... So didn't accomplish anything like I wanted to.
Hopefully tonight I'm going to do some diagnostic tests on one of the two loaner units, to try and see what could be determined. Actually, it is quite nice to have a unit to mess around with!!


When I got home tonight, cable had been 'restored'.
Found that 2 of our 3 units recovered properly. One asked for channel lineup.
Of the two loaners: One recovered properly. One wasn't certain What to do.

On that last one, experimented in Diagnostics... Nothing reporting bad. After Diags, It lost clock settings. Rather than load it manually, let it sit with wrong Time. Reset Zip and cable settings... and within 10 minutes it recovered correct time.
Ongoing.

This morning, Compared the 2 TVG's on the loaner units (All 3 of my units have 8 days of data).
One had 8 days of data (This is the one that I turned off all the 'un-necessary' channels in TVG a few days ago).
Other one had 2.5 days of data (This is the one that I left all channels "on" in TVG). Turned off all the 'un-necessary' channels on this unit (all the channels that were "on" but I could not receive Mostly cable premium channels, or channels needing 'box').


At this point, I have NOT encountered a "NO LISTING" issues on either of the units. Both units record when told to, and playback fine.


EDIT: Removing the 'un-necessary' channels helped! This unit now has 8 days of data in TVG...

Jan,

Sounds like the units you are looking at are operating "normally". Unfortunate "normal" for these units is a day or 2 of perfect operation followed by days catching up. It will lose Listings and/or channel listings. Or it will be totally unusable. Then you play around trying to recover with an unplug/replug, a factory reset, or both. It will work again but it will also fail immediately after you get a brief window of excellent performance. If I religiously unplyg/replug every day, I can get pseudo normal operation from my 3 boxes. I hope you find a solution Jan.

Power Supply Upgrade: 3410a.

C122, C124, C125, C126 -- Change to 2200/25v DigiKey Part P5545-ND
C127 Change to 3300/25v DigiKey Part P5546-ND

Take care with replacement part for C127, the revised part is physically larger than the unit it replaces. Take care that it does not touch other components.

Do this at your own risk. I've done 7 units so far, and an 8th will arrive later today.
Edit: 8th unit upgraded... Improved operation.

Jan,

I do not understand why replacing 4 year old capacitors should resolve the issues we are experiencing. Please explain. I am well aware of thermal runaway and the breakdown of boundary layers in solid state devices, but capacitors shoulld not be sensitive to temperature variations. Do you believe that the caps are being required to handle higher currents due to active device temperature related malfunctions? If so, coud you be specific. I am loathe to begin changing caps without solid evidence that proves it will resolve TVGOS issues. Also, the fact that so many of us are experiencing the same problem makes me believe we are facing a design problem that is logic based rather than hardware based. Please don't think I am being argumentative but having spent a good part of my life with NTIS and later develoing quality and grading standards, I have seen poor premises cause failures that are difficult to explain years after the theory is implemented. When I see a device lke my Motorola built Comcast DVR that always works perfectly, I have to wonder if the Koreans just got it wrong because they were designing for a transmission and decoding method that was relatively new in 2003 when these units were being designed..

Art, I'm not saying that there isn't a firmware issue, but I am saying that the power supply (especially so after 3-4 years of 24/7 operation) has in-sufficient 'headroom' on the 3.3v supplies.
Do a websearch on "ESR" and it will become clearer.
That's why I was so impressed with John T's post a year ago. He had discovered that he 3410a on a UPS locked up less than plugged into the wall.
I found the same results. I just took that info a bit further--to try and figure out "Why?". On a couple units found High ESR Caps.
I encountered an older version LG DVR, and 3100 tuner at work with same problems. A half of a volt headroom on a supply isn't very much, in case of a sag or brownout. It wasn't till a week or so ago that I even knew that there was Three 3.3v supples, and when I compared the decoupling values on L-3.3 (That Feeds Gemstar) and found them much less than other supplies, I knew I was onto something.

Yohay just picked up his unit's number 2 & 3, and left me his unit #1.

We did a quick check of operation, and found V1.17 firmware installed, but when we fast scanned TVG listings, the TVG locked up about 1-2 days into the scan.

After he left, I replaced the mentioned caps. On power up, a fast scan of TVG Listings back and forth did not encounter any lockup.

Turned it back off to gather data.

No doubt about it --- I'm onto something!!

Art, I'm not saying that there isn't a firmware issue, but I am saying that the power supply (especially so after 3-4 years of 24/7 operation) has in-sufficient 'headroom' on the 3.3v supplies.
Do a websearch on "ESR" and it will become clearer.
That's why I was so impressed with John T's post a year ago. He had discovered that he 3410a on a UPS locked up less than plugged into the wall.
I found the same results. I just took that info a bit further--to try and figure out "Why?". On a couple units found High ESR Caps.
I encountered an older version LG DVR, and 3100 tuner at work with same problems. A half of a volt headroom on a supply isn't very much, in case of a sag or brownout. It wasn't till a week or so ago that I even knew that there was Three 3.3v supples, and when I compared the decoupling values on L-3.3 (That Feeds Gemstar) and found them much less than other supplies, I knew I was onto something.

Yohay just picked up his unit's number 2 & 3, and left me his unit #1.

We did a quick check of operation, and found V1.17 firmware installed, but when we fast scanned TVG listings, the TVG locked up about 1-2 days into the scan.

After he left, I replaced the mentioned caps. On power up, a fast scan of TVG Listings back and forth did not encounter any lockup.

Turned it back off to gather data.

No doubt about it --- I'm onto something!!



I agree, you are on to something. Thanks for your patience with me. I look forward to your findings Jan.

Years ago when I did component-level electronic repairs I found that the most common cause of electronics slowly getting worse (not counting tubes) was electrolytic capacitors developing high ESR, generally as the conductive paste they used as one plate of the cap dried out. Most other parts tend to go bad suddenly. So I'm not surprised that these DVRs that worked reliably when new but are now anything but reliable can benefit from electrolytic cap replacement.

One beast I used to maintain was a 40x40 video/audio switcher. Each crosspoint module had 6 electrolytics, 4 of which were the same value & manufacturer. When we saw ripple in the video we always found the cause was that 1 or more of those 4 caps had high ESR. At first we just replaced the bad ones. Then we learned to replace all 4, because those that weren't bad yet soon would be. If we had time we replaced the caps on the other modules on the card while we had it out.

That switcher was made by Telemet, which was based in Amityville, NY. You can guess what we called it.

These DVR's never worked reliably. EVER!!!! Now they are even worse.

These DVR's never worked reliably. EVER!!!! Now they are even worse.Mine did. I had it for many months before it started showing the problems others were reporting here, except for the ones that were designed in such as the inability to set a timer to record from AV1 or AV2 and the inability to get guide data if you remapped the analog guide channel to its digital equivalent. Its shortcomings were reliable too.

I took the lid off early on and added a fan blowing over the HDD and part of the power supply. That probably helped. And it has always been on a UPS.

In the manual of at least one of my two older, V7 HDD/DVD recorders that I have, they tell you that if you have more than 50 channels turned on in the TVG, your listings can be incomplete and unreliable.

When I had analog cable a few years back, I found it to be true. I had to trim the channels down in the guide (I took out all the ones I generally didn't watch), and then everything was alright.

I also briefly experienced the problem you mentioned of not getting guide data when remapping the analog host channel to it's digital one in my Sony DVR's V8 guide a year or two back, until I finally figured out what I was doing wrong (OTA).

Update on last loaner from friend, His Unit #1:

Power supply upgrade done yesterday afternoon, and Zipcode reconfigured for my Zip.
Last night ~8PM, was prompted to select Cable Listings. Also last night, minimised channels, turning off un-necessary channels.
This morning at 6:30Am, checked... Have data to 1200 Wednesday Morning.
Set to record 2 shows today as test.
Powered off again.
By the way, the units I'm working on the the basement are NOT on a UPS.


Ram... Do me a favor... You don't live too far away....
What's the age and history of your unit. Ever have an lockups while scanning TVG with your remote?

Unit Build Date: May '05.
Software Version 1.2.05 (earliest)

TVGOS System Menu:
08.01.42/08.06.44
TVGOS Build Time: Jan. 21, '05
Host Channel (for Sony's V8 guide): was WTTW - switched over to "0:0-2" a couple of months back.

Not sure exactly what you mean by history.

As far as lockups, none with the Sony that I can recall - but a couple of years back after an update, I had to reset the unit because the TVGOS was acting up a bit. Whenever I made a change in the channel editor, it wouldn't "take" once I left the "Change Channel Display" menu (other people all over had similar problems with the Sony after the same update - I think some even did have some "freezing up" of the guide). A couple of good resets cleared it up.

I've had more problems with my V7 guides in my older recorders, though - especially with the Panny EH85. After an update sent from TVGOS a few years back, there was the temporary "U99" error (which was also well documented in the DVD Recorders forum with others that had the EH85, too), and a few times earlier on the guide screen just completely "disappeared" on me, and only came back after a re-plug. But that was just random and didn't seem related to any updates in any way.

anyone found out what kind of software running on the lst-3410a? does it use embedded linux? looks like the unit has powerpc chip, it has to be some kind of linux flavor.

Ram... You must have one of the Displays with built in DVR.
I'm not at all familiar with them, other than a recent confirmation that they have V8 TVG in them, and our set top 3410a's have V7.

By display, you mean like the LG plasmas and LCD's with a built-in DVR? No - it's a standalone, ATSC/QAM/NTSC tuner/DVR, just like the 3410a, except it has a CableCARD slot and no firewire out for archiving in HD. Has a 500 GB hard drive, too (there was also a 250 GB model). It's tuner also has a 4th gen. chip, while the LG's is a 3rd.

It first came out 2 or 3 years after the LG (early '05, maybe), and it was hardly ever seen on any store shelves. Just mainly at Tweeter and Fry's. Crutchfield sold them, too (that's where I got mine). When they shut down production, Tweeter was actually selling the DHG-HDD500, which originally retailed at $1000.00, for the unadvertised, clearance price of only $250.00! That's when most people here actually became aware of their existence (they never really marketed the things), and that's when many bought theirs (although I was always well aware of them - I just wanted to wait for the price to become more reasonable).

Even though the LG was still barely around when the Sony came out, the Sony was still at retail, and my local BB still had an LG display model sitting there for the longest time, and I kept close watch on it. Then one day I saw this marked down price on it for like $320.00, but the remote that was always sitting on top of it was nowhere to be found. I went in there with a "30% off all display models" BB internet coupon, and the guy was all ready to ring me up, and he went over to the computer, and said "this price is wrong - it should be $500.(something) dollars instead". I told him to forget it (the Sony 250 GB model wouldn't have been that much more, if it ever went on sale). Then the Sony's did start dropping down in price, and I grabbed a DHG500. And what a smart move that turned out to be. The Sony's aren't nearly as buggy as it sounds like the LG's are.

Still, like the LG's, no one knows yet if we'll be able to program with them when 2/'09 rolls around. If not, most owners are planning to get the new, Echostar TR-50 ATSC DVR when it comes out in a few months. It will get it's guide digitally and not involve any fees (it appears to be through TVGOS, but using a Dish Network-modeled guide interface. It also has an ethernet port to get it from the internet, but we don't know yet if there'll be a fee for that). Can't wait. (So there's no need now anymore for any of you OTA-only, LG owners to panic and sell your machines off so quickly and succumb to the TiVo thing, if you can just be a little patient - unless you just want to try to get some money for them while you still can.)

There are ongoing threads right here in this subforum specifically dedicated to both the Sony's and the TR-50 if you want to read about them.

anyone found out what kind of software running on the lst-3410a? does it use embedded linux? looks like the unit has powerpc chip, it has to be some kind of linux flavor.Someone in the DVD Recorders subforum mentioned that the Panny EH85 I have with the V7 TVGOS uses Linux, so yeah - I'd presume so.

The Echostar TR-50 ATSC DVR looks like the perfect replacement for my troublesome LG 3410. Any word on pricing or availability? Chasie

No, but we're guessing at least 500 bucks. Availability is supposed to be July.

The problems we've had with the LG are the consequence of the predatory business practices of the content providers with their damnable DRM, the weaknesses of the manufacturers with their willingness to yield to unreasonable demands from overbearing content providers, and the failure of consumers to be vigilant and stop those monopolistic tyrannical behaviours and conspiracies.

The result is that we must put up with erratic equipment that frustrates viewers even when they are not viewing protected material.

Then, for good measure, the commercial interests throw in some extra consumer abuses, like NOT displaying PBS schedules in an attempt to drive us into the commercial networks.

You can no longer trust the manufacturer of any DVR. And there seems not to be interest in the technical community for hacking the systems to allow consumers to use the equipment they pay for in the manner they choose.

So my solution is to build my own DVR next time, probably around a linux MythTV base.

Rammitinski,

What the hell HD DVR are you referring to. The LG 3410A community has been prety tight for some years. Now yu come along claiming that ther was a follow on machine made by LG. I don't think so. There was a company that built a device that was identical to the 3410. Are you referring to that device. If not, put up or shut up. I hate misinformation. Show us your mystery DVR.
Where did he say it was made by LG? He clearly identified it as the Sony DHG-HDD500.

Not sure I understand the tone here. Maybe there was some anger because they thought I was dissing the LG. I wasn't saying that it was totally inferior to the Sony, just that it's generally not as buggy. But people are having problems now with the Sony's guide info also, so whatever they're doing to the data stream, it's affected our units some, too. It just doesn't seem as bad, though. We have been getting intermittent, scattered "no listings" in our guides, and a few have lost all listings. But it seems to come and go. I don't think anyone has actually lost them for good so far.

I was just describing the Sony to JanJ, or whomever else might not be familiar with it. And he did ask. Plus, I thought I'd make everyone interested in OTA-only aware of the forthcoming TR-50 with the free service.

It's not a bad idea for LG owners to also show interest in the many other recorders that have TVGOS, because a lot of the workings and problems overlap in the units. And I noticed that there are some here who never really venture outside of this thread into other areas of this forum. I was just trying to help.

I have two SD HDD/DVD recorders with the V7 guide and one with the 9th. The Sony and my Pio plasma have the 8th. So I like to keep on top of what's happening with the service as much as I can.

My apologies Rammitinski. I must have been upset from too many unplug/replugs. I have deleted my comment and hope you will forgive my rudeness.

These DVR's never worked reliably. EVER!!!! Now they are even worse.

I bought mine 2 years ago on eBay and it's worked almost perfectly until last week.

My apologies Rammitinski. I must have been upset from too many unplug/replugs. I have deleted my comment and hope you will forgive my rudeness.No problem. I can certainly understand your being touchy right now. I would be too, if my guides or units stopped working over a year sooner than they were scheduled to - or in your case, they never worked right.

Art... You should consider upgrading the caps in one of your 3 units.... As an experiment....
It can't hurt the unit if done properly.

I've done it on my three units, and they are surprising me with their being solid...
I just did another fellow's 3 units, and he's already got 2 of the 3 home, and is happy with them.
I've got his Unit 1 here long enought to fill 8 days of data, then I'm calling it fixed.
Also did the earlier LG DVR last year, and he says it is OK. (Wouldn't even boot before the upgrade).
I did an LG3100 Tuner a couple weeks ago... (Stuck in "Hello")
I've got two people at work with 3410a's indicating they want the upgrade, too.

I posted the 5 caps I change.... a few posts back.


Ram: If you still have a 3410a, if you want, I'll do the upgrade on your supply, so you can see the difference.....


You might be pleasntly surprised!!!

Ram,

As long as I unplug/replug at least once a day, preferably in the AM, mine work flawlessly. They go awry after they turn off at night after typically running for 3 hours. The Guide light will not go on until one performs an unplug/replug. Remember these units have been running for 3+ years an average of 3-4 hours a day every day. It is quite possible that the caps are being asked to operate beyond their design limits. Anyway, I love the PQ so much that I'm willing to try anything to keep them productive. I connect to my Optoma HD81-LV via the DVI connectors. Audio travels via TOSLINK to my Integra 9.8 Controller. Talk about a gem...The 9.8 is exactly what you need in a modern AV set up. It can process every CODEC available on BluRay and HDDVD.




Jan,

Tell you what. if you can send me the caps (I will pay you of course whatever you ask), I will install them. As you know, I am in a wheelchair and getting to the suppliers is difficult. I need enough for 3 unts. I will pay whatever you wish. Paypal OK? Is there a power supply board layout in the manual? I have scopes and enogh basic equipment to do the changeover. I used to set up R to R decks for a little extra cash and have a workbench full of AV test equipment.

Art: I don't have enough to send you three sets and still have enough for the spares for myself. The part numbers I posted a while back are good low esr high temperature types, and should last a long while.

You best bet is to call DigiKey and order them. There is a $25.00 minimum for mail order.
Their phone number is 1-800-344-4539.

The part numbers are listed on both sides of the power supply board.

Just make sure that who-ever you have assist you with the component replacements understands how to un-solder & solder properly, and is familiar with recognising the polarity of these capacitors (The must be placed in circuit observing correct polarity), and understands and follows good anti-static handling practices during dis-assembly, parts replacement, and re-assembly.
If you're not confident doing this work, approach a TV repair shop.

It should be a very simple proceedure.

The Echostar TR-50 ATSC DVR looks like the perfect replacement for my troublesome LG 3410. Any word on pricing or availability? Chasie

And firewire? Does it have firewire?

Exactly if it doesn't have firewire I'll pass on it. I'm too heavily invested in D-VHS not to require it.

Finishing up on the 3rd of 3 3410a's for a friend in the Chicagoland area, I stumbled onto a possible fix for an 'Issue':

Symptom: Once it gets TVG data, it gets it for 2 days, then No listing is displayed in list…
Well, I think I’m on to what may fix it.

1. Does either of the units you now have go to No Listing after about 2 days from now?
2. If it does, do you have certain channels that continue to get Listings? For Example, PBS channels? If yes……
If you answer yes to both of those questions
Do you know how to issue the commands for The TVG Diagnostics?

To Get into TV Guide Diagnostics Go to into TV Guide, then Messages menu, hit enter to see your TV Guide code, then enter in the following: 753159852 then enter... You'll see 32 pages of garbage, but on the first page you will see (in Hex) the Host Channel where you get TV Guide data from. This should not affect the existing data on your system.

Then go back into TVG and scroll past the "No Listing" area, and see if you get data listed 'later on'?

That seemed to fix this unit. Of course, it could have also been a fluke, and don't have another unit to test my idea on, so I post here for others to try.

There is a possibility that this was just a fluke, but at present I don't have another unit that shows these symptoms... If it works, or not, please post, so that we'll all get the benifit of this information....

EDIT: Things I tried Prior to TVG Diagnostics, that didn't fix the issue:
Un-Plug/Re-Plug
Remove 'un-needed' channels
First Birthday and Re-scan/Reset TVG information
Let it sit for 3-4 days after getting listings





Jan

Jan J,

I'm a little unclear. Did you DO something (issue commands?) while in Diagnostics, or did just calling up diagnostics fix it?

Hi...I was a frequent visitor to this thread for the first couple of years I had this unit, but I've lost track of how to solve my current problem, i.e., that - ever since the unit was left on overnight a week ago - I haven't gotten any listings, this despite the fact that I've used the unplug-plugin (after 15 to 30 minutes) several times...no luck.

Was there something else simple that worked? I don't mean going into anything like the diagnostics menu, or anything like that...though if this keeps up, I'll probably try anything.

Thanks - Tony

PS - forgive me for not remembering, but I don't think there's a summary of functional issues and problem-solving anywhere on this thread - hence my question. (I've a little vague about this, because I also have a Sony unit, and I think it's THAT thread that has a summary...)

Jan J,

I'm a little unclear. Did you DO something (issue commands?) while in Diagnostics, or did just calling up diagnostics fix it?


On the one unit that I tried it on.... After calling up diagnostics, it then worked. Could have been a fluke, as I said. I posted it to find out if it works for anyone else with those symptoms.


Follow-Up: Now have a solid 8 days of TVG Data!!!

Was there something else simple that worked? I don't mean going into anything like the diagnostics menu, or anything like that...though if this keeps up, I'll probably try anything.Have you completely wiped out the unit and TVGOS settings and done a reset?

Have you completely wiped out the unit and TVGOS settings and done a reset?

No, I haven't...all I've tried recently is the unplug-plugin (as I did in the past)...I remember seeing the reset mentioned here when I used to frequent the board, but I never had to do it myself...how is it done?

I'd probably wait until I've finished watching watching the few programs I have on the hard drive, and use my Sony unit for the occasional new program that's appears. THEN I'd do the reset...I guess that means rescanning for stations and reorganizing the TV Guide display...haven't had to do that in a long time!

Tony

Do a Factory Reset.

Hi Folks,

I'm in Montgomery County, MD and up to a week ago or so, all was fine. Using my unit on COMCAST with no cable box. Got fine listings and they were stable. Now, however, when I set up for cable, I get nothing. After more than a day, I show NO Host Channel for a source of the Guide. I have been down all of the reset options from alternate zip code through and including First Birthday.

The weird thing is that, if I set up for OTA only, I get full listings overnight with a host channel of 5. I keep both HD channel 5 (36.1) and analog channel 5 "On" in my channel list in both cases. On the cable, analog channel 5 is cable channel 25. Apparently COMCAST has changed the guide transmission so hat it does not show up on the cable.

Any thoughts on how to get the guide channel to stay on the OTA station when the combination of OTA and Cable is selected during setup??

Thanks,

If you've found OTA TVG Host channel on your OTA Channel 5, I've got to ask if your cable is carrying that same SD channel? If so, it should (Should) be the same signal, and contain TVG there as well.

If your cable company doesn't carry that channel (even if they change it to another channel), you may be correct that it can't find a host channel.

I've 'tricked' a DVR to get data off a different channel, but it involves tying up another source and blocking out a cable channel... Before going off on a tangent on this subject, let's get more information from you.....

Hi Folks,

I'm in Montgomery County, MD and up to a week ago or so, all was fine. Using my unit on COMCAST with no cable box. Got fine listings and they were stable. Now, however, when I set up for cable, I get nothing. After more than a day, I show NO Host Channel for a source of the Guide. I have been down all of the reset options from alternate zip code through and including First Birthday.

The weird thing is that, if I set up for OTA only, I get full listings overnight with a host channel of 5. I keep both HD channel 5 (36.1) and analog channel 5 "On" in my channel list in both cases. On the cable, analog channel 5 is cable channel 25. Apparently COMCAST has changed the guide transmission so hat it does not show up on the cable.

Any thoughts on how to get the guide channel to stay on the OTA station when the combination of OTA and Cable is selected during setup??

Thanks,

Albertso,

My Dad is on Comcast in Kensington, MD. His 3410A has also stopped downloading the guide information. Like you, his is connected to OTA and cable. Because he never uses the guide or the recorder, it has not become an issue but I understand your problem.

My (2) 3410's are also connected to OTA and cable but I am on Comcast Annapolis. Both of mine have been working fine. If I were you, I would do a factory reset and start all over if you have not already done it. Mine have quit for a month or longer and then started working again. Currently, as long as I unplug/replug every day faithfully, everything works.

Good luck.

Hi Folks,

I'm in Montgomery County, MD and up to a week ago or so, all was fine. Using my unit on COMCAST with no cable box. Got fine listings and they were stable. Now, however, when I set up for cable, I get nothing. After more than a day, I show NO Host Channel for a source of the Guide. I have been down all of the reset options from alternate zip code through and including First Birthday.

The weird thing is that, if I set up for OTA only, I get full listings overnight with a host channel of 5. I keep both HD channel 5 (36.1) and analog channel 5 "On" in my channel list in both cases. On the cable, analog channel 5 is cable channel 25. Apparently COMCAST has changed the guide transmission so hat it does not show up on the cable.

Any thoughts on how to get the guide channel to stay on the OTA station when the combination of OTA and Cable is selected during setup??

Thanks,

Hi Albertso,

I'm in DC using Comcast with on cable box for my LG3410s and have not received guide listings in the past couple of weeks. I also have OTA connected and have not been able to pull in the OTA PBS station 26 for some odd reason. I will try the OTA only setup you mentioned to see if it works for me.

-James

You guys should all consider moving to Sacramento. I've only had only two periods totalling maybe 7 days of guide problem in the 3-4 years I owned my unit. Maybe they send the guide data here differently. I don't have a single analog channel turned on and don't have it hooked to cable.

Y'know, a year or so ago, I had the same problem with my Sony DVR's guide. It would only keep the guide data for a few hours or a day at most, everytime I reset it. I finally traced it to the fact that I was taking the analog host channel that came up after the initial setup, and assigning the (equivalent) digital channel's number to it. Then I would search in the channel editor for another, blank "WTTW" (the station), and assign the analog channel number to that one. When I finally just left the original one as is and assigned the digital channel number to the one hidden in the channel editor instead, the problem righted itself immediately.

Don't know if that would apply to anyone here in any way, but I just thought I'd share that.
As I noted here recently, I haven't been getting listings for more than a week, i.e., since the unit was mistakenly left on overnight.

I noticed this suggestion yesterday, and decided I'd check it out, since I had also assigned the analog PBS listing in the guide to 9-1 (the HDTV channel) instead of the original 9. So I restored the PBS entry back to 9, and assigned a DIFFERENT PBS listing (from who know where) to 9-1.

Something else new was also going on yesterday, so I'm not sure this reassignment accounts for what I found today, which was 4 days of listings (1,2,3, and 8). But I am relieved that I don't have to go through a factory reset!!!

Thanks, Rammitinski (if that's what made the difference)!

(I should noted that I didn't have the more severe problem that you described...my guide would work for months on end trouble-free, provided the unit was never left on overnight AND the hard drive was never allowed to fill completely. If either of those things happened, I would stop getting NEW listing, as happened beginning last week.)

I'm going to need your folk's help!

Our main display, a Mitsubishi DLP, had a bulb explode last night.

While we wait our turn for a service call, I changed all our DVR's over to Video, routed all 3 DVR Audio & Video, along with a cablebox feed, to a 4x1 switcher, and fed that to Video/Audio input on an old TV, so wife can watch cable, or any of 3 3410a DVR's in Glorious 480i (Standard Definition) on a 4x3 TV.

Each of the 3410a DVR's are set for Video (480i), also, the aspect ratio (Ratio on Remote Control) are each set for: Set By Program.
Furthermore, each 3410a have V1.17 firmware installed (all 3 stared life at V1.15 -- One was 'factory' upgraded, two were upgraded by me to V1.17).

When I display the ouput of each of the DVR's (Set at Video ouput, with Aspect Ratio "Set by Program"), Two of the 3 units: Display the Top and Bottom of the Letterbox display as BLACK, and one display's the Top and Bottom of the Letterbox display as GREY.
EDIT: The last of the "Loaner" 3410's from my friend also set for same thing outputs GREY too. ?????

I've browsed through the menus, and cannot find a location to make the top and bottom of the letterbox display as BLACK. Grey is a bit distracting...

So, my question for my friends here at the forum: Where in the menu do I change the Top and bottom COLOR of the Letterbox display???? Want to change the unit that is outputting GREY at Top & Bottom of Letterbox display to BLACK. And I can't find it in the manual!!!!!

Thanks in advance!!!

Jan

Art, Jan and James, Thanks for the useful info. Yes, analog channel 5 is translated and carried on the cable as 25, but I think that COMCAST MOCO is dropping the Guide information from the translated signal. My problem started about the same time Art's Dad's and James did. I have done the resets, and each time I return to Cable + OTA, I lose the data and the unit can not even find a Host Channel. Within one overnight period after dropping the "connected to cable" setting, I have solid listing data. I'll be interested in James' results in going to OTA only. While this is not a good answer, it at least makes the guide available so that I can time shift the HD OTA channels. Since COMCAST MOCO scrambles almost everything except these channels, there is not much advantage to having the QAM's available. I'd still like to figure it out though. And, wilsonsoohoo, while I like your area of California, this is not quite enough to make me move after 37 years here in Kensington...

I doubt that the Cable System would expend the effort to remove TVG, but Here's how you can prove that the cable system is stripping or distorting the TVG:

Hook your outside antenna to a VHS Deck, and tune to your OTA TVG station. Leave VHS Deck "ON". Set VHS RF for Channel 3 or 4, and hook the RF output to the 3410a cable input.

Give your 3410a a TVG Reset and it will start scanning the cable channels.

IF it finds something, you'll be prompted in a day or so.... Then Go into TVG Diagnostics, and see if the Host Channel is 03 or 04, matching where you set it. This proves 2 things: That 3410a can receive TVG off 3 or 4, and maybe there's a problem with TVG Data off Cable....

Now, this doesn't get you cable reception, just a TVG Test... Next step is to Disconnect Cable from VHS Deck, and VHS Deck from 3410a cable input, (We're done with VHS deck now) and connect Cable to Cable input of 3410a.

The 3410a should determine (when powered off) that there is no TVG Data on Ch3 or Ch4 (Ex-VHS TVG Translator), and start hunting for the TVG Channel... IF, in a few days, you do not get a host channel in TVG Diagnostics, THEN you need to get on phone with Cable Company to inform them they are distorting the TVG Data in the transcoding of the host channel.

TVG data is transmitted on Line 15 of each of the TV Fields. If you can decode such things with accuracy, that would be the smoking gun.

You might have better luck calling the host TV channel directly, and ask to speak with the Director of Engineering. (Don't hit me, John!! :) )

Question about cable boxes.....I recently upgraded to HD programming from comcast. I set up my 3410a with cable box on the a/v input and plugged in a ir repeater into the back of the 3410a. When I scedule a recording, it will change the channel on the cable box, But as far as the 3410a knows, there is no such thing as a channel greater than 135. With this limitation, I can't record about half of my channels.

Anyone know of a way around this?

I can't help, as every time I tried to interface with my Motorola HD Box (Comcast), I could get to control the box on ANY Channel, but when it went off looking for TVG Data, it never found a host channel (When configured for Cable and Yes to Box). It would start scanning from channel 02 and work it's way up to 93, going right past 7 and 12 (Where WLS & WFLD: V7 TVG data transmitters) and then it would stop, and do nothing.

I went back to Cable and NO for box, and it gets TVG data off Ch 7 or 12, but doesn't control the box, but gives me tons of ICons that are not on analog cable, but only through the Cablebox. --- Go Figure!

If you find a way it works, inform me! :)!

Thanks, Jan,

I'll lash up that setup an see what happens.

Fred

Question about cable boxes.....I recently upgraded to HD programming from comcast. I set up my 3410a with cable box on the a/v input and plugged in a ir repeater into the back of the 3410a. When I scedule a recording, it will change the channel on the cable box, But as far as the 3410a knows, there is no such thing as a channel greater than 135. With this limitation, I can't record about half of my channels.

Anyone know of a way around this?

? isn't the AV input standard definition? how does this get you an HD recording, anyway?

(I guess I don't understand an ordinary cable box, and I presume by "upgrading to HD", you mean changing to digital, since you get the OTA HD channels even from analog cable; the comcast HD digital RECORDER only gives you STANDARD definition in a form that the LG can accept, unless you've figured out some way to use the firewire...

avnstf: Yeah, your'e right, the 3410a issues the channel change via IR, and then looks at the video input (SD), and that's what it records.... All that worked fine, but it never determined where the host channel was in this mode (Cable Box "Yes"). I never could get a host channel this way, but it would ALWAYS get a host channel off cable when I set it for Cablebox "No"... (and it brought in all the cable Icons & channels, but now won't connect to cablebox or change channels, because I set it for Cablebox "No").

(Either that or I missed something basic...)

Art, Jan and James, Thanks for the useful info. Yes, analog channel 5 is translated and carried on the cable as 25, but I think that COMCAST MOCO is dropping the Guide information from the translated signal. My problem started about the same time Art's Dad's and James did. I have done the resets, and each time I return to Cable + OTA, I lose the data and the unit can not even find a Host Channel. Within one overnight period after dropping the "connected to cable" setting, I have solid listing data. I'll be interested in James' results in going to OTA only. While this is not a good answer, it at least makes the guide available so that I can time shift the HD OTA channels. Since COMCAST MOCO scrambles almost everything except these channels, there is not much advantage to having the QAM's available. I'd still like to figure it out though. And, wilsonsoohoo, while I like your area of California, this is not quite enough to make me move after 37 years here in Kensington...

Albertso,

The OTA only worked. I have guide listings now. It appears that there is something wrong with the cable system. I will try cable on my other box to see if the situation has changed.

I guess I'll have to put in a call to COMCAST and ask to speak to an engineer as Jan suggested.

Thanks,
-James

James and Jan, I fooled with this a bit today and I was able to force the OTA guide data to the faked channel 3. It would assign the Host channel within just a few minutes and begin to fill out the guide data. Tried it several times.

I like James, think it is COMCAST.

James, Please let me know what you learn from them. I do not have engineering number for them, but I will be happy to assist any way I can. Out of curiosity, what host channel did your unit lock on to??

I can't help, as every time I tried to interface with my Motorola HD Box (Comcast), I could get to control the box on ANY Channel, but when it went off looking for TVG Data, it never found a host channel (When configured for Cable and Yes to Box). It would start scanning from channel 02 and work it's way up to 93, going right past 7 and 12 (Where WLS & WFLD: V7 TVG data transmitters) and then it would stop, and do nothing.

I went back to Cable and NO for box, and it gets TVG data off Ch 7 or 12, but doesn't control the box, but gives me tons of ICons that are not on analog cable, but only through the Cablebox. --- Go Figure!

If you find a way it works, inform me! :)!There are a few possible explanations for this. Some cable companies used to strip TVGOS from the analog channels, claiming Gemstar was trying to slip non-program-related data through without paying them. Gemstar took Time Warner to court over this a few years back, lost, then did a deal with TW to get it restored. That's not the case here, because you can get the guide with a direct cable connection.

The cable box may be programmed to substitute a digital SD version of the analog channels for better quality, so when you tune it to ch. 7 it may give you a digital equivalent that doesn't have TVGOS on it.

The box may be converting any analog channels to digital, then back to analog for those outputs. A DVR probably would to allow recording and trick play (pause, RW, etc.), and a non-DVR box might to simplify menu overlays. It might strip the vertical interval (other than captions) or the A/D-D/A process might shift the picture up or down a line or two.

If you have or can borrow a waveform monitor, preferably with a line selector, you can see what the box is doing to the signal.

I suppose you could put the box and the output of a VCR tuned to the guide channel (cable or OTA) through a video switch to the LG's AV input and switch it to VCR when the LG is off. Maybe a coaxial relay powered by 5v from the HDD connector.

James and Jan, I fooled with this a bit today and I was able to force the OTA guide data to the faked channel 3. It would assign the Host channel within just a few minutes and begin to fill out the guide data. Tried it several times.

I like James, think it is COMCAST.

James, Please let me know what you learn from them. I do not have engineering number for them, but I will be happy to assist any way I can. Out of curiosity, what host channel did your unit lock on to??

Albertso,

My host channel locked on to 0x1A, if my calculations are correct this is WJLA - network ABC channel 27 (7 for SD). For HD this is WJLA-HT 7-1 (frequency assignment 39).

Hi Jan,

Over the air, WJLA should be 0x7. It is converted for SD to cable channel 27. WETA-HD is actual channel 27, but I did not think the unit would lock on to an HD-OTA. Jan???

I was getting an OTA lock on 0x5, WTTG analog.

Most confusing...

Hi Jan,

Over the air, WJLA should be 0x7. It is converted for SD to cable channel 27. WETA-HD is actual channel 27, but I did not think the unit would lock on to an HD-OTA. Jan???

I was getting an OTA lock on 0x5, WTTG analog.

Most confusing...

Albertso,

Sorry I forgot, I was thinking about cable not OTA. You are correct 27 is WETA-HD. So I must be getting the guide info from the PBS station.

Thanks,

-James

If I may add to th confusion. I am in Davidsonville, 8 miles west of Annapolis, MD. OTA TVGOS comes from WETA Ch. 26 Analog (PBS). Annapolis Comcast Cable has this analog feed on Ch 6 of the cable box.

Albertso,

My host channel locked on to 0x1A, if my calculations are correct this is WJLA - network ABC channel 27 (7 for SD). For HD this is WJLA-HT 7-1 (frequency assignment 39).I believe 0x1A=16+10=26, not 27. What's on ch. 26?

? isn't the AV input standard definition? how does this get you an HD recording, anyway?


In regard to my earlier post, yes I understand I would only get an SD recording, but I was just looking for a way to record the channels. I don't have any other HD DVR, but since they are encrypted I can't get them by running the coax straight into the LG.

I am also considdering the Tivo HD. It can accept a cablecard, so I could record the HD comcast feeds. It has tivotogo, so I should still be able to get my recordings off of it. (Currently I use the D-VHS with a computer)

If I got that, I wouldn't need my 3410a anymore. Does anyone know what these are worth these days. I tried ebay, but apparently none have sold recently.

My 3410a currently works great. The original hard drive died shortly after I got it (I am not the original owner). I put a WD 200 gig inside. That was about 3 or 4 years ago. Virtually no problems since. It occasionally has the guide problems that these units suffer, but not as many as others that I have read about. Maybe twice total I have seen "HDD error. Recording stopped". Also, the cover has a small dent in it. Purely cosmetic, doesn't affect performance at all.

Once you settle on a price, you could try listing it in the AVS Classifieds here.

If you have a good home theater system, you might want to spend the extra couple hundred bucks on a Series 3 Tivo. Both the picture and sound out of that thing are astounding and make my pretty average system rock.

I may dump one of my stockpiled 3410a's because of that.

I am also considdering the Tivo HD. It can accept a cablecard, so I could record the HD comcast feeds. It has tivotogo, so I should still be able to get my recordings off of it. (Currently I use the D-VHS with a computer)

If I got that, I wouldn't need my 3410a anymore. Does anyone know what these are worth these days. I tried ebay, but apparently none have sold recently.

My 3410a currently works great. The original hard drive died shortly after I got it (I am not the original owner). I put a WD 200 gig inside. That was about 3 or 4 years ago. Virtually no problems since. It occasionally has the guide problems that these units suffer, but not as many as others that I have read about. Maybe twice total I have seen "HDD error. Recording stopped". Also, the cover has a small dent in it. Purely cosmetic, doesn't affect performance at all.

Art and ebo, you are correct. I had always believed that WETA (PBS, analog 26) was the guide station, but my first OTA-only guide host channel locked onto 0x5, WTTG. I just checked again and I'm locked on 0x5. Host ID is 0x906. Is that the same as you get on 26?

Joshmv4 If you are still interested on getting rid of the lst-3410 let me know

The following was posted in the Sony 250/500 thread TODAY and answers some questions re how the TVGOS data will be available via local CBS digital stations. Note the comment about converters having to pass the data through to the analog output - I suspect this means that those of us depending on OTA can use this by splitting the signal from the antenna, with one branch going through a converter (tuned to CBS) and the output being rejoined to the other branch, resulting in a cable having the digital broadcast stations AND a CBS analog signal that includes the TVGOS data. What do others think of this?

Originally Posted by DataChanEngr:

To quell the subject on the Electronic Program Guide questions, here is the response to a letter our head of engineering received from our technical contact at Gemstar.

"January 21, 2008

Hello Michael - In reference to your inquiry, your customers utilizing both OTA and CATV will have no problems with FCC 03-273. As you are aware, the VBI signal carried by your station will cease and be picked up by your local CBS affiliate. VBI in its original form will no longer "natively" exist and all new EPG's and VBI 21's will be able to decode the digital format. As for legacy equipment, CATV operators will still transmit the VBI with their analog signal, mainly due to regulations regarding VBI 21. Additionally, NTIA requires all CECB's to decode “legacy VBI", again, mainly due to VBI 21 (see fcc. gov/cgb/consumerfacts/CC_converters .html for more information.) We have tested extensively with the RCA DTA800B and found it to pass VBI 10-21 encoding perfectly.
Other units complying with NTIA should produce similar results. Please let me know if you need any further information."

(by the way, a link to the original posting above in the Sony thread ishttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13064099#post13064099

IF the splitter scheme noted above DOES provide the LG (or Sony) with signals both for the digital OTA stations AND and an analog version of the CBS station that will carry the TVGOS info, then the latter will come in a channel 3 or 4 (user selectable), according to my understanding of what these converters do.

The question then is how the LG or Sony will interpret this analog signal. It will be coming in as 3 or 4, but the side info on the signal, in addition to carrying the TVGOS (and closed captioning) info, may still be identifying itself as the CBS digital channel (in my case 5.1). If this is what comes across, will it confuse the tvgos system? Or will it ignore this station identification, which would be necessary to be successful, since the DIGITAL CBS station will of course also be identified as 5.1, in my example? I kind of doubt that the converter will CHANGE this side channel info, since that device is intended for analog TVs.

hmm...on the other hand, some (though probably not all) of the converters will use the individual channels' side info to provide an EPG that is iindependent of the system. It isn't clear to me if this program info will only be provided for the channel that is being SELECTED for output, or if it will construct a TABLE comparable to the TVGOS guide screen. Certainly the llatter would be a lot more useful to people AND the converter is RECEIVING all the info necessary to construct such a table. (My Samsung receiver from 2003 constructed a table like this from the digital channels it received, though the table was incomplete because not all the channels were providing this particular data in the side info at that time.) Maybe it COULD change the side info to say channel 3.0 or 4.0 (???)

So, even if the split signal scheme I suggested adds the a CBS analog signal to the digital signal stream, it's not obvious to me that the LG 3410a or Sony 250/500 can successfully make use of this signal.

I am hoping we can get some feedback on this issue from the same source as quoted the Gemstar spokesman.

People tend to forget that the guide information needs to be inserted in the VBI part of the analog signal. The converter box is only going to allow you to use "it's" guide info. Similar to using a cable box with a TiVo.
And worse yet, for Sony DHG units, there will be NO way to set the clock (unless Sony intervenes, which I do not see happening.).

People tend to forget that the guide information needs to be inserted in the VBI part of the analog signal. The converter box is only going to allow you to use "it's" guide info. Similar to using a cable box with a TiVo.
And worse yet, for Sony DHG units, there will be NO way to set the clock (unless Sony intervenes, which I do not see happening.).

The point of the info from the Gemstar guy is that the converter is required to carry along the closed caption info AND for the CBS digital station that same data stream includes the Gemstar guide info.

Understand what I'm saying? Because the CBS digital station will be carrying the Gemstar info, it will be carried over to the analog output. He also added that they had CHECKED this for the converter they tried.

So the question is whether OUR unit (and the Sony) will be able to utilize that info without getting confused by having the digital CBS channel coming in, as well as the anlog version of that, coming in over analog channel 3 or 4.

For the Sony unit the question will ALSO be whether the same side stream that contains the TVGOS data and the Closed Caption info will also have the time signal...

The Gemstar fellow I spoke with seemed to indicate that the "VBI from MPEG" options that a couple of 'box' manufacturer's are working on, WILL be useable on our V7 TVG units.

As to WHICH Mfg..... I'm going to touch base with him in a few months to get more information on this.... He illuded that they were 'in the testing phase' with at least one of them.....

The Gemstar fellow I spoke with seemed to indicate that the "VBI from MPEG" options that a couple of 'box' manufacturer's are working on, WILL be useable on our V7 TVG units.

As to WHICH Mfg..... I'm going to touch base with him in a few months to get more information on this.... He illuded that they were 'in the testing phase' with at least one of them.....

I don't have any idea what vbi from mpeg is...

But what do you (or anyone else) think about the possibility of using the upcoming converters as I've indicated above, based on what the Gemstar guy said who was quoted in the Sony thread?

(I posted a private message to the guy who posted that Gemstar info in the Sony thread, asking him to see if he could get more info regarding whether units like the LG or SOny would work with the output from the converter, but he hasn't responded to me...)

I believe that the Sony (like the LG Plasma display w/DVR) is running V8 TVG.
Our 3410a's are running V7 TVG.

My 3410a (one of the very earliest ones) had degraded to the point that I needed to perform the 2 second removal of power routine everyday the last 6 months in order to get Guide data. That all changed a week and a half ago when I replaced the 5 capacitors identified by Jan J. My 3410a has performed perfectly since then, getting Guide data everyday and faithfully recording the shows that I had requested! I was skeptical that changing the capacitors would correct my Guide data problem, but it sure looks like it did!

Thanks Jan!!!

:)!

Cudos Jan,

I think I will oder those parts. Is it difficult to get to the 3.3V power supply?

Hey Jan,
Looks like a business opportunity for you. I know I would send mine your way . . .

The problem with ordering from DigiKey is that small orders are discouraged.

Jan J commented:
> You best bet is to call DigiKey and order them. There is a $25.00 minimum for mail order. <

Actually, they'll accept orders for less, but add a $5 "handling fee". So a single order for these 5 caps will run ~$17, with shipping and handling fees.

Since Art needs 3 sets, his will run ~$26, or a bit less than $9 each. A lot better average.

If someone placed an order for enough caps for 10 sets, that would run ~$47, or $4.70 each. Add a couple bucks to re-mail them out to multiple buyers here, and you're looking at just ~$7 each. Which should make his a very attractive enhancement.

Who wants to volunteer? :)

- Tim

If you are not comfortable with this procedure, FIND SOMEONE WHO IS!!!

Power Supply is separate from drive or main PCB or Gemstar board.

It will involve proper Anti-Satic precautions, so that your well intended repair does not result in further damage to the unit!

If you don't know, listen and attend!:

Electric components can be damaged by less than 50V. You will not "Feel" a static zap until it reaches about 5KV (5,000V).

So, from this, you can see you can DESTROY an electric circuit without even knowing it!

Worse yet, you can damage a transistor circuit, and it will work now, and die later!

That's why I stated before, and I state again: IF you are not comfortable with doing this: Find someone else!

I use the following procedures when dealing with electronic circuit repairs:

I ALWAYS Use Proper Anti-Staic proceedures: (Remove power from unit -- move to an anti static repair location and wear a Static Strap grounding myself to the ground of the unit I'm working on), and use Anti-Static Soldering equipment.

I follow the following rule exclusively:


"Never Fail to use Proper Anti-Static Procedures during a repair on a product that you cannot repair to the component level in LESS THAN 5 Minutes".

Again: DON'T DO THIS unless YOU are comfortable with your actions! A miss-step during this can destroy the unit you are trying to fix, and/or Hurt you! You ARE Dealing with AC Line Voltage, you know!


Now that I've beaten that subject to death... (It IS "THAT" important).

Disconnect from all power and other devices and wait a few minutes for the power supply to discharge.
Ground yourself to the chassis with Anti-Static Strap.
Remove connections from power supply to other boards & drive.
Un-screw the Power Supply, remove the power supply from unit.
disconnect yourself from chassis, and connect yourself to Anti Static repair location.
Using an Anti-Static Soldering Pencil and Solder Wick, remove indicatd caps noting polairity, and one at a time, swap & solder components, Noting that you observed polairity of the replacement caps to be identical with the ones removed.
Verify there are no shorts from you soldering job.
Trim excess lengths from caps.
Using a clean old toothbrush and Isopropol Alcohol, CLEAN excess flux from PCB.

After all caps changed, DOUBLE CHECK WORK AGAIN! Use a Magnifying glass to CONFIRM there are no new un-intentional SHORTS on the PCB!!!

If you skip this step, and there were shorts, you will be in deep do-do when you apply power to unit!

Finally, put it back together, double-checking your work.

Say a short prayer: "Oh GOD -- Please Work!" (That's a good one !)

and power it up.

The Gemstar fellow I spoke with seemed to indicate that the "VBI from MPEG" options that a couple of 'box' manufacturer's are working on, WILL be useable on our V7 TVG units.

As to WHICH Mfg..... I'm going to touch base with him in a few months to get more information on this.... He illuded that they were 'in the testing phase' with at least one of them.....

So Jan....to follow up on this, there's been a lot more discussion in the Sony 250/500 thread about whether the digital-to analog converter boxes will provide functionality for the Sony after broadcast analog disappears. (In fact someone there has already started trying to put a unit in front of his Sony to see if it can get the clock and tvgos data from the converter's output.)

As I noted here in posts earlier this month, a Gemstar guy was quoted in the Sony thread as saying the converters have to pass "legacy VBI" to the analog output. Your comment above implies Gemstar is planning to continue to provide V7, so I have some hope the LG will continue to work.

I sure wish we had some Gemstar contact who could provide more specific info about how that would work. Furthermore, this kind of info REALLY ought to be available on their website...maybe you could ask your contact why this hasn't been done?

I'm still puzzled at how units like the LG and Sony will react to analog output coming over channel 3 or 4 that's been converted from a digital signal. I think this should work as long as it isn't carrying along an identifier as a digital channel, as it does in the PSIP data that's part of the digital OTA transmission.

In fact, now that I think about it, I guess that's something that's specific to digital channels, and there wouldn't be any reason or place to put that data in the analog output...

hmmm...I guess in that case, my notion of splitting the antenna signal, with one branch passing through a converter and then rejoining the antenna signal before going to the Sony and LG, would work.

What do you (or others) think?

Cheers - Tony

...I wouldn't be worrying about this now, except for the fact that the coupons for the converters are now becoming available, and I'd kind of like to know how things might work before I sign up for the coupons (which are only good for 90 days)...of course, the quotation from Gemstar in the Sony thread said that these units HAVE TO supply the vbi data to qualify for the coupons...but some units may be better than others for their primary purpose; e.g., the Echostar TR-40 is supposed to have a built-in TV Guide function, and this would be a handy addition to my analog TV in my bedroom...

By the way, your reference to "mpeg" threw me at first...but I guess you just mean the digital signal, the audio-visual content of which is an mpeg; the tvgos data would come over in some other way, wouldn't it, e.g., in the psip data or some such?

By the way, I've lost track of why capacitors in the LG should be bad after only 3 or 4 years.

Fortunately, my unit is working pretty consistently, the only problems occurring when it's left on overnight or the hard-drive fills up completely.

But I am curious about the capacitor issue. I do know that my Pioneer receiver bought in the early seventies would occasionally crap out, with the problem being old capacitors...I guess they must have all been replaced and, perhaps thanks to the fact that I don't use it as much any more, this baby still works fine...(So do my Bose speakers...in their case the big speakers had to be replaced. Nowadays you can't get either of these problems repaired!)

Would be nice if we had more info.
Would be nice if we could upgrade our TVG to eliminate bugs.
Would be nice if caps would last forever......

I think the best thing to do regarding the box issue is to wait till September or October and then I'll call the guy and remind him of the conversation we had. Things aren't going to be critical till next February anyhow....

Did anybody download the tech info from the LG site that was left 'open' a year or so ago? There was a document that seemed to indicate that TVG could be upgraded. No files, nor interconnect software, but it appears that that PIN that you pulled out is the i/o port and the way new software gets downloaded..... Isn't it amazing how much info we've determined about this interesting box? I did ask the Guy once about TVG updates, but he said it was VERY involved, and then he changed the subject..... And I took the hint. I certainly don't want to push him too far and have him clam up altogether!

I'm gonna let some info out of the bag......
There is a DVR headed my way via UPS right now, that I've been told I can 'experiment' with.
I'll tell you the first thing I'm going to do: Pull the power supply, check and change the caps....

More later....

Would be nice if we had more info.

Did anybody download the tech info from the LG site that was left 'open' a year or so ago? There was a document that seemed to indicate that TVG could be upgraded. No files, nor interconnect software, but it appears that that PIN that you pulled out is the i/o port and the way new software gets downloaded..... Isn't it amazing how much info we've determined about this interesting box? I did ask the Guy once about TVG updates, but he said it was VERY involved, and then he changed the subject..... And I took the hint. I certainly don't want to push him too far and have him clam up altogether!

More later....

Hi Jan,

I did not find anything when I did a quick scan of the files that I downloaded other than the two items in the LG3410 service manual, one about initializing GEMSTAR via the FMode Set Init which Initializes the Gemstar (page 3-26 ) and the other on Upgrading Gemstar by Glink (page 3-27 thru 3-41).

I'll search again tomorrow.



-James

Yeah, it was the upgrade via G-Link... I hadn't seen that before.
Gee, if only it could be updated!!!!

rfburns:

Check you private messages...

:)!

Little Teenie-Tiny decoupling caps about the size of a period .
That's what I was soldering on last night . --- on the back side of the TVG board.

I said the Short Prayer: "OH God, Please Work!!" ----

Now I'm waiting for TVG channel lists.....

Jan,

I thought the cap replacement you suggested before is supposed to make the 3410A operate properly. Why are you changing period sized caps?

Different problem -- traced to different devices.

For example, if there is audio problems, that gets fed from a different power supply than the TVG does.

In this case, it was three surface mounted bypass caps (too small to read value), that were never soldered on one side.

I need some help. If anyone has the schematics, would you go to Page 3-98 (Section 15) and tell me what IC 148 is doing?

Thanks

Jan, Data sheet says it is an "On-screen display Controller Microprocessor" - Not much help.

Suspect it may be driving the TVGOS display pages.

Hope this helps

I may be on to something new, in the "No Listings" area.

Anybody here real good at reading schematics? I would like a 2nd and 3rd opinion of a certain area of the circuitry.

This is in an area that I have not mentioned before...
Please IM me.

I may be on to something new, in the "No Listings" area.

Hi Jan,
We have conversed regarding this machine several times. I have experienced satisfaction (operation) and no problems with my machine by doing several things learned here and by myself.

These are not options for many as everyone wants it all. In my home and TV viewing, we are only using OTA. Picture quality of analog (NTSC) has always been good but, digital (ATSC) is just as good and when in HD widescreen is the best there is. I do some recording on the fly otherwise exclusively using the Guide programing thru the "record once, regularly or weekly" feature.

The only time I have had operational problems is when a program "moves" from its designated date or time. I may have had a problem with dropped channels requiring a "channel scan".

So with the LG3410A every other source (NTSC, cable) is turned off. If the unit scanned something else other than ATSC I turned it off in the channel menu. Also any non-english channels are turned off. The unit has been running great since beginning of the 2007 season. Late 2007 a weekly program moved and sometime in January I did a channel scan. For me this summs up this machines quirks for the past 3 years.

Sincerely,
leg one

I received a 3410a with a totally DEAD TVG system from a user here a week or so ago...
It has been a VERY LONG and troublesome last week,.
I paticularly liked seeing smoke come out of my Tektronix 465 scope when I turned it on... (Still waiting for second sourced parts to (hopefully) fix it.)......

The Power supply mod DID NOT Fix the TVG Problem, (Won't hurt it, though!)

By Dumb luck, found 3 teenie bypass caps on TVG board not soldered on one side... and when soldered, TVG became recognisable on the screen, but no reliable TVG data.

Wouldn't find the correct or same Host ID with multiple First Birthday's. Sometimes got channel lists for my Zipcode, sometimes not. Something else was in play here. More schematic snooping...

Anyway, if you've got schematics find C493 (on Same drawing as Tuner)... See if you can determine where it is going (What Page of schematic and what component does it hit next), after it leaves the tuner portion of the schematic. I'm not certain if they changed signal names, or what... But.... It measured High ESR (With Cap out of circuit, SD & HD Video still passed to TV Screen, so that path isn't used for video display).

After replacing that cap (And First Birthday), I got reliable TVG Data, on every power cycle!

One Repair is not a "Fix", but results have been very impressive. A second user has given me authorization to replace C493 on his unit (Chronic No Listings, or only 2 days of listings).

By the way, if you thought My disclaimer for parts replacement on the POWER SUPPLY was a bit much.... You'll absolutley HATE What I'd say about replacing C493!!!
(Unless you are Excellent with Surface Mount Repair... Don't bother attempting this!)
Whatever I mentioned on the Power supply mod, DOUBLE OR TRIPLE IT FOR THIS MOD!

Loosen rear metal from chassis, REMOVE TVG BOARD, Change C493 on Motherboard, RE-INSTALL TVG BOARD, Re-install rear metal chassis.

It's pretty intense. A slip of the solder pencil and you've done some damage that probably won't be un-done!!!

Anyway, if you've got schematics find C493 (on Same drawing as Tuner)... See if you can determine where it is going (What Page of schematic and what component does it hit next), after it leaves the tuner portion of the schematic. I'm not certain if they changed signal names, or what... But.... It measured High ESR (With Cap out of circuit, SD & HD Video still passed to TV Screen, so that path isn't used for video display).


Hi Jan,

I'm guessing here, only using the service manual:

I'm not certain but it appears that C493 may be associated with CVBS.2 located on page 3-98 IC148 (On-screen display Controller Microprocessor that Albertso mentioned that may be driving the TVGOS display pages).


Just a guess??
-James

Jan is speaking of my 3410A. I had given up on it and thought it had become a 'parts machine' and sent it to him to experiment with. He has resurrected it and given it life again. Mine had failed in a way probably not common to most, but the fact is he has identified suspect capacitors and poor quality in the manufacture of some of the circuit boards that may help others. Wish him luck! :)

Thanks, wookatok

rfburns : Last night Your machine was put back-together, and I'm using it as a "reference" machine for a 2nd unit (From Yohay) which has chronic "No Listings".
I'm doing a scheduled recording a day on your machine, and so far has successfully completed each recording.
This morning I examined both machines.... Your's is still getting TVG Data, Yohay's isn't, so Reset TVG on his, and now both are getting TVG Data. Tonight, I'll check and if his has minimal or no data, and if so, will power it down, and change C493, then reset TVG again, and go back into the 'wait' mode. :)!

Jan J:
I agree with wookatok on the destination of the circuit that includes C493. It appears to feed composite video from the tuner on schematic 12 to IC 148 on schematic 15. If that IC feeds the TVG board what it needs, a bad cap could disrupt guide info.

The schematic number is part of the title of the schematic, not the page it's on. Schematic 12 says CVB_2 goes to 15:B7:15:J3. 15 is obviously the schematic number. Not sure about the rest, since the connection is closer to B3 or C3. But B7 to J3 seems to enclose the whole circuit.

I looked at the location of that cap, and I might try to check the ESR in-circuit, but I sure hope I don't have to replace it. I used to pride myself on doing circuit board repairs that were hard to tell from the original wave soldering (extreme nearsightedness has its advantages) but my eyes aren't as good and my hands aren't as steady as they used to be. At the least, I'd want to invest in a new, very fine tip for my soldering iron.

I have caused damage pulling up PCB Leads on what I thought were properly desoldered Surface mounted components, so I developed the following approach That DOES NOT INVOLVE using a soldering pencil to remove the old part:

I used very sharp "flush cuts" to cut the cap can in half (in parallel with the PCB) while still soldered to the PCB, then using a dental pick, carefully remove the remaining (bottom) part of the cap can and plastic mount that is underneath it, leaving the leads on the board, not touching one another.
I used a 10uf/50V 105 Degree axial cap (NOT SURFACE MOUNT) and precut it to length with turned leads, with the leads pre-soldered prior to placement on the PCB. I then jingerly soldered it to existing leads/PCB, (verifying cap polarity) and examined closely afterward with high magnification work light....

I didn't use surface mount caps, cause they are only rated at 85 Degrees, and I believe the origional component was a 10uf/16V cap, and I wanted a better cap. A higher voltage surface mount cap would have had a much larger footprint, and would be harder to solder on top of this....

By the way, The ESR of the origional cap was about what a 1uf cap should have been, (A 10uf acting like a 1uf==Nearly Dry) not anywhere near what a 10uf cap should have been. Tonight I'll measure the ESR of the cap on Yohay's #1 unit, before cutting it apart.

NO LISTINGS on Yohay's #1 unit...
Measured ESR of C493: Measures like a 1.5uf cap!

Replaced C493 with a 10uf/50v cap, and told it to look for Zipcode 60076.

I checked a half hour later, and via TVG Diagnostics, it found the proper host channel...

Jan,

You da Man!

Well, not exactly!!! Because I had two units on top of one another, and one remote that works on both.... (Can you determine what I did next?) Yeah, I put First birthday codes for one and it did both!!! Damn Me!!

So at this point, I've reset TVG on Both of them!!! So they are both starting from ground Zero!!!

Phooey!!!

Furthermore: I wish I could have 5 minutes with the guy who laid out the PCB trace wiring for my Shop scope!!. Idiot used 2 of the three ground prongs on the filter cap, and ran the two connections to 2 different parts of the circuit, and then didn't connect the two, or document it on the drawings, and the traces are all on the opposite side of the board, where I can't get at them!!

Cap is no longer made, and I'm replacing a 3 ground, one Positive cap with a 1 ground 1 positive cap. Which of course doesn't work.
I eventually did make a display with the addition of a couple jumper wires, but will need a CRT Bias adjustment tomorrow night, as a component failed in that area, too... (Yeah, I'm Venting!!!)

After 3 weeks with no guide data, tonight I got the select lineup. When I scrolled down to the correct lineup and pressed select the screen locked up/froze. This happend on both of my LG3410a boxes. I had to power off but the lineup screen did not reappear. I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see if I get guide data.

Before turining the unit off I checked the host channel and it was OxO. Strange, I'll have to see what tomorrow brings.

-James

GUIDE DATA OK NOW!!!

I did a TVGuide reset last night and the lineup appeared this evening and I was able to select the correct lineup without a lockup. I now have guide data on both units. It must have been the provider because everything is working perfectly now. Host channel is 0x1A = 26 PBS.

-James

OK Need some more schematic help...
Here's what I THINK the video flow to TVG is: I'd be happier if Multiple people pitched in on this.

Off the Tuner, (Section 12) there are two feeds: CBVS_1 and CBVS_2

These two signals got to (Section 15) and
I BELIEVE CBVS_1 is mis-labeled to CBVS_3 and goes to Gemstar board via J116 pin 23.
CBVS_2 Remains labeled CBVS_2 and goes to Gemstar board via J116 Pin 16

ON Section 19 (Gemstar board Schematic) J101 Pin 23 is referred to as: CABLE_CBVS, not CBS_3 or CBS_1 (As it has been previously)

On Section 19 (Gemstar board Schematic) J101 Pin 16 is referred to as TUNER_CBVS not CBVS_2 (As it has been previously)

From J101 both those signals go into a Gate Array IC107, where it is impossible to follow further.

HELP I NEED:

On the schematics.... I need someone to go through the schematics:

Looking for occurances of CVBS_3 OTHER THAN Section 15

Looking for occurances of TUNER_CBVS OTHER THAN SECTION 19

Looking for occurances of CABLE_CBVS OTHER THAN SECTION 19

Please report what you find... THANK YOU!

Hi Jan,

CVBS3 shows up on page 8 at the upper right corner as a part of the circuit of the Video ADC. Then it goes to pin 23 of the GEMSTAR connector on page 15. That connector (J101) shows up on 19 where pin 23 is called CABLE_CVBS (TUNER_CVBS is pin 16). So:

CBVS3 is also CABLE_CVBS

CVBS2 is TUNER_CVBS.

CVBS1 feeds the Video ADC on page 8.

I can't find any other references.

Hope this helps,

Fred

Thanks very much for that help... That means that CVBS_3 is coming from the A/V input #2... which is only used during Cablebox YES...
So I can discount that.... cause I'm set for Cablebox NO.

That leaves only the CVBS_2 path into Gemstar board for TVG OTA or Cable feeds, on Pin 16 of Gemstar interface, and therfore, C493 would have been in the path.
Right?

Hi Jan,

I agree with albertso. However not to stir the pot.

Take a look at the Signal Path Diagram (page 3-69) CVBS In-1 inputs into the NTSC Decoder (VPX3226F) at V_in1 and the Gemstar NTSC Decoder (GS502). CVBS In-2 inputs into the NTSC Decoder (VPX3226F) at V_in2 only. CVBS at the ASTC/NSTC inputs into the NTSC Decoder (VPX3226F) at V_in3 and the Gemstar NTSC Decoder (GS502).

-James

That's why I've been asking for help... I first tried to equate IC numbers with the block diagram, and found I couldn't find GS502.. Look at 3-68 and see the Blank spot to the right of the GS502 block diagram... I've been wondering if there were things removed from the block ....

Now, IF GS502 is the IC 107 (ADV7201) on block 19, I'm willing to state that IC 107 (ADV7201) function is to take two different composite inputs, select which to use via DAC_DATA3 (Tuner or Cable composite video) do the 15 line count on each field, and then output TVG Data.

Please confirm or deny..

More info:
Drawing 19 is the equivalent of Gemstar Drawing 4
Drawing 18 is the equivalent of Gemstar Drawing 3
Drawing 17 is the equivalent of Gemstar Drawing 2

But I haven't determined what drawing Gemstar Drawing 1 might be....

Using my newly repaired scope, I determined why I never could get the cablebox video feeds to work with the 3410a:

The Motorola 6200 HD cable box blanks all lines before line 21 for closed captioning.

TVG is on liine 15.

Jan,

That is my thinking too. I have the Moto 6412 (with DVR) and I thought either it or Comcast was stripping the TVGOS info. I have gotten highly reliable data to download from OTA. Problem with intermittent OTA data was pointing of the rooftop antenna.

I am in a high signal area where multi-path is a killer. Very careful alignment is mandatory. [Why the rooftop? Well, can't get Baltimore at all without it.] Anyhow, this explains much of the issue - except, it used to work...

Comcast must have reprogrammed the box to do the stripping just after the first of the year. That is when my cable guide data disappeared. I have to go on a trip next week, but I'm going to do some scoping when I get back and see if I can figure out if my box is behaving like yours.

Thanks for all the help and experimentation.

BTW, did you know that the code 963214785 (Force Host Channel) will lock the Host channel to the channel in use when activated? There is some danger in using it though. Getting away from this selected channel requires a COMPLETE hardware reset, at least it did in my case. Here is the procedure:

1. Tune to the station, either OTA or Cable that you want to set as host.

2. Go to GUIDE and use the same process that you do to get the diag screen (753...).

3. Enter 963214785. If accepted the message box below will change to "Searching Current VBI Channel." The screen should go away by itself after 5 minutes or so. Wait for it...

4. Turn off overnight and see if the guide info downloads. The 753159852 diag screen should now show the channel you set (right or wrong!!!) when you check it. If you got it right and the channel is carrying the data, the guide should start to fill.

Just more info for your trivia box.

Thanks for that info, Fred... I did not know about that one!!
I won't do that for the units I'm working on, but will try that on ours!!!


And Regarding the Comcast Box..... I called Comcast, and, Yes, they admit doing it, and they don't care that I want it.

Jan

WONDERFUL. I wonder if Gemstar knows about the Comcast practice?
Seems to me that they might not like it.

Good info, though.

Jan,

I just wanted to thank you for keeping the 3410a alive and interesting. Keep up the good work. I still love/hate my two units.

-James

Does anyone think the heat these units produce causes the capacitors to break down and cause all the problems they have? If you notice on the back of the units there was a cutout for a cooling fan but one was never installed, probably to cut manufacturing costs. I bought a fan at Radio Shack and installed it back when I first got mine and so far I have not had any problems. Chasie

It's my opinion that the problem with caps degrading is due to the working voltage plus impulse voltage (When added together) being too close to the rated voltage of the caps, rather than temperature. As switching supplies go, it's actually pretty cool.

Rick: Unit is boxed up, and will hit shipping tomorrow evening..

Fred: I'll try the "Force Code" on one of the units tomorrow PM. It's a shame that you can't force a channel number, Say, if you knew channel 7 was your host channel, you could then tell it to force to channel 7, and be done with it... (Instead of hoping it finds the correct channel...) :)!

By the way, I've thought of a way to work around the Comcast box Vertical Blanking problem...
It would involve 3 steps, and a VHS deck.
1. Removing C718 from Section 8.
2. Putting a new cap with the negative lead on the negative tab of where C718 used to be connected, but connecting the positive lead
of the new cap at the junction of the Base of Q126 and R647, effectively taking TVG off of External Input #1 instead of Input #2.
3. Set a VHS deck to the host channel, and feed the video output to External Input #1, and leave the cablebox video & audio connected to Input #2.
The system set for cablebox YES would work normally, getting it's video & audio from external input 2, but TVG info from the VHS deck (set for host channel) off of input 1.

If it wasn't going away next February, I think I'd convert one to do just that, just to prove it could be done!!!! (Comcast never was high on my Customer Satisfaction list!)

Are you guys are talking about them stripping the signal when you're using a digital cable box?

Aren't they still sending at least the locals in analog? If so, and they're still sending the TVGOS data over analog, just split the signal - one lead to the RF and the other to the box > line input.

Or won't your IR blaster control the box?

None of above.. If you set the 3410a for Cable YES, Cablebox YES, you connect the video out of the cablebox to ext in #2 on 3410a. The 3410a is expecting to see TVG on that video input from Cablebox... During the initial "Get Host Channel" phase of the setup, the 3410a incriment's cable box channels (Via IR) looking for TVG on the video input #2........
EXCEPT COMCAST is stripping it off (actually all lines up to Line 21 [Closed Captioning] are stripped off). So it never finds TVG at all.

What I was suggesting is to re-wire a cap that would normally couple the video-with-TVG signal to the TVG Board, from EXT input #2 to Ext input #1, and then provide (Via VHS Deck set on Host channel) UN-Blanked Host Channel Video to EXT input #1, while leaving the cablebox video & Audio on EXT input #2. The 3410a would then operate correctly, and it would have no idea that the HOST Video was not being derived from the cable box video (where that information has been stripped off)...

Has the LG ever been able to get the guide info from the cable box when hooked up to the line input? In other words, did it work at one time, but since they stripped it out, it doesn't anymore?

I ask because I'm pretty sure that with my two older, SD, V7 recorders (that both use IR blasters to control external boxes), it specifically says in the manual that you can't get guide data through an external line input, period. Maybe the LG is different, though (?).

WONDERFUL. I wonder if Gemstar knows about the Comcast practice?
Seems to me that they might not like it.

Good info, though.

Could Comcast be blocking the Guide to save bandwidth? They create their own Guide, so they believe a second one is not needed.

Sincerely,
Leg One

No... They are doing it so the 3410a won't work with their cable boxes. By blocking line 15 that prevents Gemstar TVG from being detected, and used. Once I got to a person who knew what Gemstar TVG was, she all but said it done so they could rent their DVR's. (She danced all around the subject without saying it in as many words).

Jan,

Wait a second. I do not believe that the line inputs were ever expected to bring in anything but composite video from a cablebox or other source. I believe that if you own a cablebox and wish to use it with the LG (I can't understand why one would ever want to do this since the reason we bought the LG is to watch and record HD material), the RF cable from the wall is still connected to the LG after splitting with the other leg going to the cable box. The TVGOS data comes in via the cable RF input since it is normally on an unscrambled analog channel. Scrambled video and if you want it, unscrambled video comes in via the video inputs from the cable box's video output but there is no TVGOS data on it. Why should there be? It came in via the RF.

Jan,

Wish i understood why my 3 machines get TVGOS Listings at different times. One machine may display No Listings while the other 2 work perfectly. The next day it might be another that has No Listings.

C718 (Path from ext input #1 to TVG board).

I do not believe that the line inputs were ever expected to bring in anything but composite video from a cablebox or other source. I believe that if you own a cablebox and wish to use it with the LG (I can't understand why one would ever want to do this since the reason we bought the LG is to watch and record HD material), the RF cable from the wall is still connected to the LG after splitting with the other leg going to the cable box. The TVGOS data comes in via the cable RF input since it is normally on an unscrambled analog channel. Scrambled video and if you want it, unscrambled video comes in via the video inputs from the cable box's video output but there is no TVGOS data on it. Why should there be? It came in via the RF.It's my understanding (someone correct me if you know differently) that the LG looks for guide data on only one of three inputs; which one depends on what you tell it you have.

If you say you have antenna only, no cable, you can receive OTA digital and analog programs, and the LG looks only at the antenna RF input for guide data.

If you say you have cable but no cable box, you can receive OTA digital but not analog on the antenna RF input, plus cable digital (clear QAM) and analog on the cable RF input. The LG looks only at the cable RF input for guide data.

If you say you have cable and a cable box, you can receive OTA and cable digital but not analog on their respective RF inputs (assuming you supply a direct cable feed, bypassing the box) plus an NTSC version of any channel the box can tune on the AV 1 input. The LG looks only at the AV 1 input for guide data. AV 2 cannot be used for this purpose. In this setup the LG changes the name of the AV 1 input to "Cable Box." It is also the only setup that allows scheduled recordings using an AV input.

Why record from an AV input if it can't be HD? Because for anything that isn't available from OTA or clear QAM the alternative is not to record it at all.

I have OTA and basic cable but no cable box, so I can't really test the third option, although I suppose I could fake it by feeding the AV 1 input from a VCR tuned to a station known to have guide data.