What I'm suggesting is only telling it you have "cable". Then, after the guide fills in, going into the channel editor and "turning on" the digital channels (that don't show up on the first download), and entering their appropiate channel numbers (and changing the numbers on the ones that do initially show up if need be). The info for those channels *should* fill in within a day or so (it always works for me with all of my various TVGOS recorders).

The only problem I could see is that this option often won't allow you to enter 3-digit channel numbers - at least with the V7 guide (or even V8 - only with the newest, V9). But for sure you should at least be able to enter in anything under channel 100 with no problem. And most of digital starter is within that range. If nothing else, at least you'll still be able to use the guide to record those channels, and you'll still get info for all the others (maybe then you can still timer record with those?).

Another thing is, if it does get guide data from a line input, it might always "revert" back to looking for the data from that input - which will, of course, eventually cause the guide to go blank. But possibly not with the LG. This I wouldn't know, since none of my V7 recorders will pass the TVGOS data through a line input like I mentioned, so I've never even tried it.

If it works, you might or might not get full, guide recording-setting function, but at least you won't have to set timers for anything under channel 100, provided the IR blaster controls your cable box, and provided you're still getting analog guide data.

On my Comcast system, there are no stations worth watching below 100. The only way I know of to get TVGO date is via the RF input. If you say that you have a cable box, the source for the video becomes Video 1 instead of the RF. The cable/RF however stays hooked up so that the TVGOS is available for programming and all of its functions as well as selecting stations. I believe that is the way it works. I may be wrong but I don't believe there is any TVGOS data on the composite video. At least I can't see it.

...I may be wrong but I don't believe there is any TVGOS data on the composite video. At least I can't see it.

I think you're right...(audio)video is (audio)video, and doesn't include anything from the original rf or other signal, except as it is output (e.g, from a cable box or other unit, e.g., a DVD player or a receiver) as part of the (audio)video...make sense?

Then why the path to TVG from External input #2? C718 on section 8 CBVS_3

Please re-read albertso's post 4981


The other unit that I'm working on, that never seems to get TVG Data more than 2 days in advance of today......

Suddenly got 7 days of data!! (I Changed C493 on this guy last week, and until today I had not seen any listings more than 2 days from date of examination..... until today, when it seemingly jumped to 7 days of data....)

?????

Then why the path to TVG from External input #2? C718 on section 8 CBVS_3?Could it possibly have something to do with being able to show the video from that input in the preview box while the guide is being shown?

Are you certain? That's not what albertso indicated....

No, I'm just wondering. Actually, I really haven't got a clue.

Jan,

Some days mine will pull several days and at other times, I can't even get 8 hours. I believe it depends on how many channels are selected and the allocated space for TVGOS data.

Some days mine will pull several days and at other times, I can't even get 8 hours. I believe it depends on how many channels are selected....True. They even specifically tell you in at least one of my older DVR manuals that if you have more than 50 channels in the guide, you may get incomplete data (for V7).

I even tested it out a few years back with those recorders, and it turned out to be entirely accurate. Once I cut back to under 50 channels, everything was fine again.

I think I've found the solution to the 3410's problems. I got fed up to here, so I gritted my teeth and ordered a TiVo Series 3. The 3410, which hasn't downloaded or recorded for nearly a month has suddenly decided that it's going to work after all. Do you suppose it knows, and is frightened? I sure hope so.

Tivo is selling refurbished TiVoHD's right now for only $179.00, in case anyone's interested.

Not really a reply - new issue for my 3410a. Never posted before but read alot. I apologize if breaking protocol. AND offer MANY THANKS in advance for any suggestions...Heres my situation:

Bought a LG LST-3410A 11/28/07 off ebay. Had some trouble getting it to turn on. The seller said it had to be turned on many many times to get to the HELLO at which time it would work and DON’T turn it off, ever! 3 days and 100’s of power button pushes later HELLO finally came up and I could time record and chase playback – the 2 things I really wanted to do. It did have the NO LISTINGS problem but it let me use vcr plus to set up recordings.

Skip forward to now…..
WHEN powered OFF it acquires and displays correct time. Red standby light on face is ON. HDD quiet. 1 red, 1 green LED inside ON. It makes a little chirp when turned OFF.
WHEN powered ON it stops keeping time but displays the time it was turned on. The 2 LEDs above stay on and 2 more RED ones come on. Can hear the HDD “spool up”. NO DISPLAY other than the time. NO HELLO message. No HDD indicator etc. As Tony Soprano would say “Its dead to me”.

Some background and history. After getting it to work initially I did leave it on for about 2 months, NEVER turned it off . It had a beautiful picture and I could time record and chase playback (timeshift?). Then I turned it off just to see if I could recover and because after reading this board and other TVGOS info I realized that to get TVGOS it had to be OFF. This would allow me easier record setups and program info! It took 10 or so ON/OFF cycles to get the machine back up. So I left it ON another couple months. Which brings us to NOW. Again I tried the ON/OFF cycle and it worked first time so I left it off overnight and I picked up some listings…HOORAY! This worked for a couple weeks.

THIS IS WHERE I GOT GREEDY…. As I turned it off at night it would receive days 1,2 and 8 in the listings. But it seemed that a subsequent days download would overlay a listing populated earlier with no listings. My understanding is that you either get 1,2,8 or 1,2,5,8 on a download. I figured this unit is like a PC so a start from scratch might allow it to reset fully. SO I executed a first birthday as described in post 4825 using the face of the unit. I got the “GOOD:TS” message and that was the end of my being able to get it to turn on (DISPLAY the HELLO message). It does what I described at the top of this post and nothing else. It’s been 5 days now. I’ve tried repeated OFF ON cycles. Plug unplugs. Left in ON for hours. Left in OFF but plugged in for hours . Now its Unplugged for 15 hours and counting. I’m hoping there are some more things to try given this boards collective experience. AND if I ever get it running again I will never turn it off. I can get great use from this unit without the TVGOS. Thanks again for your attention.

Sounds like you have a failure in the 3410A that will need repair. Hope you did not pay much for the broken device. Maybe Jan would be willing to look at it.

I've worked on 2 units like that... That either reboot occasionally, or won't turn on. Your tipoff is you get no HELLO, or, it's stuck in HELLO. (One of them was my own unit).

Power supply caps... Check back a few pages for which caps need to be changed out, and what values to install....

After you verify that it reliably boots up on each power cycle, First Birthday it, as it is probably very confused with all the marginal boots it has been through... And then the 2-3 day re-learning....

I've requested help on the antenna forum many times in the past because I've had so much trouble with horrible reception in inclement, especially windy, weather. I'm surrounded by close, tall trees. I recently switched from an LG 3410A to a Tivo Series 3 box. No problems at all since the switch, but we'll see when the trees leaf out. Sometimes, apparently, some tuners just can't keep up.

The LG is an old tuner - it only has a 3rd gen. chip. They're already up to the 6th now.

Problem is, you can never find that type of information (Which Generation Chipset) is in any receiver these days.... In fact, I've never been able to find any information in all the tech goodies that I have as to WHICH generation Chipset the LG 3410a had!

Where did you find that info?

I assume my Mits WD62525 has the same chipset, but never could find any documentation on that, either.....

The 3410A's tuner was designed to be very sensitive. I use an attenuator to improve reception from my amplified antenna distribution system. The main isue for which I have no solution is the unpredictable switching from one channel to another. This occurs on certain channels but not others. Even with all the hastles, the picture that comes out of my 3410A's is the best I get out of any source. Love my 3410!!!!!

Jan, Maybe we should have some T shirts printed. Just kidding of course.

In an effort to keep current and perhaps future owners of our quirky machines up to date I submit the following:

Jan J has discovered some technical issues related to capacitors in the power supply and other portions of our aging machines. His efforts and expertise have restored new life to mine. Thanks Jan :). See his recent posts documenting these issues if you suspect the beginning of hardware failure. Also look for cold solder joints on the TVG Riser Board which he found on mine.

In addition I felt it would be helpful to have a single post of the common user ‘fixes’ and tweaks that we use to keep our finicky machines working. Please add any I’ve forgotten or am unaware.

First thing to try when the 3410A becomes unstable or frozen: 10-second unplug/replug. (Fixes most problems).

Undocumented Features & Tips:

1. Factory Reset: (courtesy Jan J) Beware all recorded material will be lost from HDD! (You should have a composite [yellow rca, or s-video] connection to your monitor to see the diagnostic menu below).
“How to issue a real Factory Reset (What I call a "First Birthday") to the 3410a:
The following is done from the front of the unit, NOT with remote:
Turn the 3410a off. Wait 10 Seconds, and turn it back on again...
After the Hard Drive space Icon shows up, Change the Display Format to "VIDEO"
On Front of 3410a, Press "Left" button and "Select" button Simultaneously.
You should see "DIAGMODE:TS" on the front panel display. If Not, Press "Left" and "Select" again (some machines do it on first press, others take twice).
Now Press the "Upper" Button (selects #10 Factory Mode Init)
Then Press the "Select" Button
Then Press the "Select" Button a 2nd time.
You should see "WAIT:TS" and after a while "GOOD:TS"
Done.”

2. To find current TVG host channel: (courtesy Jan J)
Enter TVG Menu. Arrow up and highlight Messages. Press Enter. Enter 753159852. Page 1 of 30 should now show onscreen. Host channel is 2 lines below Zipcode on page 1. It is given in hex and must be converted, i.e. 0xD = channel 13. Safe and no loss of recorded programs.

3. To force scan for a new host channel: (courtesy Jan J)
Enter TVG Menu. Arrow up and highlight Messages. Press Enter. Enter 653214741. Turn off and GUIDE light should come on. Safe and no loss of recorded programs.

4. To force host channel if known: (courtesy albertso) *** See update below***
“The code 963214785 (Force Host Channel) will lock the Host channel to the channel in use when activated? There is some danger in using it though. Getting away from this selected channel requires a COMPLETE hardware reset, at least it did in my case. Here is the procedure:
1). Tune to the station, either OTA or Cable that you want to set as host.
2). Go to GUIDE and use the same process that you do to get the diag screen (753...).
3). Enter 963214785. If accepted the message box below will change to "Searching Current VBI Channel." The screen should go away by itself after 5 minutes or so. Wait for it...
4). Turn off overnight and see if the guide info downloads. The 753159852 diag screen should now show the channel you set (right or wrong!!!) when you check it. If you got it right and the channel is carrying the data, the guide should start to fill.”
***Update*** [2/20/2009]
It should be safe to use the force host channel procedure between hosts without a complete reset. (courtesy Jan J)

5. To reset TVG/Slicing Data:
Enter TVG Menu. Arrow up and highlight Messages. Press Enter. Enter 653274147. Wait for the menu to clear and come back. Afterward do a 30 second unplug/replug. Leave off overnight. Should clear all prior TVG data and make a fresh start.

6. To run the G* Test: (courtesy rockin robin)
For our units go to suspected Host Channel.
In the TVGOS Menu go to MESSAGES and click SELECT.
When the ID number shows here type 971 397 135. (No spaces)
VOILA!! G* TEST on host channel!!!


Some Important Documented Features & Tips:

1. Make sure host channel is turned ON in TVG. Use TVG Channel Editor: [TVG Menu > Setup > Change Channel Display]. If host channel is unknown make sure local analog Big 5 are turned ON. (ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, PBS).

2. Make sure host channel is turned ON in LG Menu. [Menu > Setup > Ch. Edit] Again make sure local Big 5 are turned ON if host is unknown.

3. Use TVG Channel Editor: Select no more than 50 channels to be ON for optimal TVG performance (per LG).

4. Disable unused inputs such as AV1, AV2. [Menu > Lock > Aux. Block > ON].

5. Run EZ-Scan again. [Menu > Setup >EZ-Scan]. (LG Menu, not TVG Menu).

6. Format HDD. [Menu > DVR > HDD Format]. (LG Menu, not TVG Menu).

Beware, these hints and tips are to be used at your own risk!

Additional resources for service manuals and troubleshooting.

Here is a link to the LST-3410A service manual (http://136.166.4.200/contents/STB/LST-3410A/LST-3410A%20Service%20Manual.pdf) for those interested.

Here is the main page for LG devices by category (http://136.166.4.200/video.htm) with user and service manuals.

For the Geeks :cool:
How to initiate the hardware test using a PC comm port. Connect modem/serial cable between PC and LG service port. Open TeraTerm or other terminal program (if other, select vt-100 console) . Make sure serial port is set for 115200, 8, N, 1, caps lock off. While holding down "Shift + T" on PC, turn on 3410 using front panel power button. You should get a password prompt. Enter "svcLST3410" (case sensitive passsord). Choose which test to run or enter "T" for all. Individual tests seem to yield more data than when using the "T" option.

Click on the attachment below for a printable copy of this post.

Thanks rfb. Great summary. Together, maybe we can keep these things on the air.

Very good information!

Some of those pieces of information credited to me belong to others, who preceeded me.... I just passed them along..

Did you learn any new items from Nick???

Nothing new from Nick. But on Monday I will be sending him digital camera pics of the onscreen info he is interested in. I will have several days worth by then. He is wanting specifically pages 1 & 2 from [TVG Menu > Messages > 753159852] menu.

Problem is, you can never find that type of information (Which Generation Chipset) is in any receiver these days.... In fact, I've never been able to find any information in all the tech goodies that I have as to WHICH generation Chipset the LG 3410a had!

Where did you find that info?For some reason I was thinking it did. But it might be a 4th. Can't seem to find any definite info either way. I don't even know for sure what the TiVo S3 has either, but it's either 4th or 5th. But if it's 5th, that would explain it being better at dealing with the multipath from the trees. There's definitely a big difference between the 4th and 5th as far as that part goes.

I've got a new and frustrating problem with my 3410. Without warning or incident I've lost the OTA signal into the unit. I've confirmed that the cable line from the antenna is good and signal is being delivered from end to end. But the LG shows no DTV signal, so I've lost all my HD content. Cable tuning, including QAM for non-scrambled HD channels is unaffected, only the OTA signal.

The relays are switching inside the box (or at least I'm still hearing the clicking sound) when I move from CATV to OTA. Could they be faulty and no longer making contact to the tuner?

Suggestions?

If you see picture when you hear the click, you've made contact.....

I'd give it a TVG reset and force it to scan for Host channel again.

Or, if that doesn't work... Tell it you are in Zipcode 90210 and turn it off for a couple hours, then reprogram it for your Zip... then wait for a listing....

No picture, only the "no signal" message. It's like the antenna cable isn't even connected.

I am again getting the TVG error about AV1/AV2, but I'm one of those that just leaves the unit on. I don't do scheduled recordings but timeshift quite a bit, as well as record for a fixed time period.

It's unplugged now - I'll restart and see if that clears the TVG issue.

TVG issue is cleared now, but I'm still stuck with "no signal" for the OTA HD channels.

I've not done the zipcode change as I don't think the problem is with the TVG. But I'll run that process if you think it will helpful.

What about a full "first birthday" reset as described earlier? I don't have any content to retain and can do that easily.

jdavee:
You could tell it you have OTA only, no cable, and see if it can receive analog channels. That would prove that a signal gets into the box through the OTA connector, although analog and digital probably take different paths pretty quickly. Might even go through different relay contacts.

The "relay contacts" are very simple.... OTA goes to one input, Cable goes to other input, and it is switched to the tuner... That's all that's going through the coax relay...

The "relay contacts" are very simple.... OTA goes to one input, Cable goes to other input, and it is switched to the tuner... That's all that's going through the coax relay...That simplifies troubleshooting. If jdavee's analog works from cable but not OTA, it's the OTA relay contact or possibly the connection back to the OTA input. He said he already verified the signal on the antenna cable. If analog works from both inputs, that points to the ATSC portion of the tuner.

ebo, I think you're on the right track. I borrowed a USB HD tuner (I don't have any other HD except the LG) and confirmed that the antenna is delivering OTA HD on all expected channels. That leaves the LG as failing to get the signal inside the box.

I have my screwdriver and multitester poised and ready....

Tivo is selling refurbished TiVoHD's right now for only $179.00, in case anyone's interested.

or brand new TivoHDs for $199.

http://www.tivo.com/promo/nea_specialoffers.html

Well this is just stupid. I opened the case, connected power and OTA cable only, and...it worked. I didn't get the "no signal" message on the LCD display.

So I set the output to VIDEO and connected a regular TV. Sure enough, I had the HD signal from OTA, downgraded to SD.

I put it all back together, back into the rack, and...it didn't work. "No Signal" on every OTA. Back to the workbench, where it failed for about 10 tries. Then - it worked again.

I carefully disconnected every connection (power, cable, composite video) from the back panel and reconnected, trying the signal each time. It always worked.

I put it on the floor in front of the rack with OTA and composite video out. It worked.

I put it in the rack with the same connections. It failed.

I took a closer look at the antenna wire and there is a small chance that it's shorting inside the nut. I've clipped it off and went to crimp on a new one - all out.

I've tried rigging up some BNC to F-connectors and nothing is working. I've even tried wiring with alligator clips, but still "No Signal". I think the short is still in the unit, so I'll be getting some part numbers from the relay box in the back where the cable lines come in.

Does anyone have any LG parts suppliers for repairs like this? I'll have the part number tomorrow for the tuner switch box. Too tired to open the silly thing again tonight.

Are you sure you don't have a bad coax connection? Maybe when the unit is pushed back into the rack the cable is bending at a certain angle and causing an open? You may have to cut the cable back a foot or so and put on a new connector.

or brand new TivoHDs for $199.

http://www.tivo.com/promo/nea_specialoffers.html

...if you happen to be a member of the NEA..

...if you happen to be a member of the NEA..

TIVO may be going belly up. I believe the reason for the low prices is because they lost their DIRECT TV contract.

OK... Put it back together, and if it doesn't work, WIGGLE the OTA connector...
You have something intermittant.... and I'll bet it's an external coax.
Just for grins... hook the cable to the OTA spigot, and do a ez scan... See if it decodes anything....

I agree with chasieb and Jan. Much more likely the coax or connector is the culprit and shows when going back into the rack because of cable stress.

Can you take it to a friends house and try using their antenna?

There is still the chance that same cable stress when exerted on the machine case could be the cause too. If flexing of the machine case can reproduce the problem then you might be looking for a hairline fracture or cold solder joint within the RF connection directly behind the input.

I tried all of the cable flexing and could not get the signal back. So I lopped off about 3" from the antenna cable (which included the prefab connector) and put on a new one. So far it's working, and I kept an eye on it while placing it back in the rack. It's all good for now!

Thanks for the suggestions and encouragement. Hopefully it will return to the stable device I've enjoyed.

But thinking ahead, what are the replacement options when these do go belly up? I can't find anything close to it with the exception of the Tivo 3, and I just hate having to pay that monthly (or massive lifetime) fee for the privilege of using my own device.

Notwithstanding any cable flexing, I just won a 3410a on Ebay, and wondering where to get the latest firmware (V#.17). Also, if there is any source code so I can do some C programming on it.

albertso:
I finally got around to using the 963214785 Channel Lock on a 3410a.
My 3rd one suddenly decided not to play nicely.... and after a while I tried it...
Worked Just as you promised it would!!! THanks!!

RGRG Jan, glad it worked for you. I was able to force mine too and it appears to stay put, until you consciously reset it some way.

Have you seen a problem with d/l because of poor signal strength? Mine is working fine, except it gets only random sets of day values. I understand that they come in sets 1-5-8, but mine will get two or three days, then miss two or three. I am in a horrible multipath area and the UHF channel that we have here (PBS Ch 26), is quite ghosty. I think that may be the problem. This weekend I am going to attenuate the signal a lot and hope that it kills off the ghosts and improves the guide data pickup.

Thoughts?

I was talking to a TVG Tech a year or so ago, and he suggested that if Closed Captioning was a problem for reception, so would be TVG.
And in the next sentence he's seen too high a signal strength do same thing...
I think Art mentioned a while back that he has antenuators in front of his 3410a.
I've been pretty lucky, though have a friends unit in basement that consistantly receives two day's data, then stops... Maybe I should try the locking code on that one... Hmmmm.......

@ Jan:

Nick is still working on my case. He gave me a new code today. Messages > 653274147. He described it as 'reset tvguide'. I did it at it wipes clean all guide data. When it comes back the window is black with 'No Data' in the guide section. His instructions were to next do a 30 second unplug/replug. I did that, but my clock hasn't reset yet. Might be dangerous?

Might be dangerous?Shouldn't be. Never was on the Sony units. That's a pretty standard procedure. (You can get all those service codes from "Spiff's FAQ's" on the Sony DVR thread.)

I'm trying the "lock the channel" code on a friend's unit in the basement that never seems to get more than 2 days of TVG data... Just to see if it makes any difference.... (This unit has been on the 'bench' for far, far too long!)
And all 3 of my units are now "Locked" and AV1/AV2 Blocked.

(As a point of reference: V7 TVG is transmitted by WLS & WFLD in Chicagoland)

Today my machine is very confused. It could not even set the clock after being off overnight. I decided to give it a first birthday again. I took pictures before and after, and sent to Nick. I'm sure I won't hear back from him until next week.

Thanks Ram for the tip. Here is the link for Spiff's FAQ's (http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html). I edited my prior post with the new code.

Think I'll kick back today and enjoy some college hoops. :)

wwxman,

PM me if you still are wanting firmware and instructions. I was originally version 1.14, but have seen no change in stability regarding TVGOS after upgrading.

I searched the thread but couldn't find a similar experience with my current problem. I've tried several recordings using TVG but have only gotten one complete HD recording. SD recording still works. The "Record" indicator was on, and I heard the machine doing something. The resolution indicator flashed back and forth between 1080i and 480p during the recording. One minute of the scheduled recording was on the hard drive. Comcast just upgraded my area to fiber optic lines with 1GHz bandwidth. The one complete recording was a PBS program. Any thoughts?

rfburns,

My s/w menu shows: S/W MP1.15; H/W 10.4; DB 4.15; Guide 7.1.20

02:51PM Apr 6 2004.

Any idea where the unit should be?

Thanks.

rfburns,

My s/w menu shows: S/W MP1.15; H/W 10.4; DB 4.15; Guide 7.1.20

02:51PM Apr 6 2004.

Any idea where the unit should be?

Thanks.

alberstso,

Not sure I understand your question, but here is my info.

S/W: MP1.17
H/W: 10.04
DB: 4.15
GUIDE: 7.1.20
DATE: 03:22PM, Jul. 23, 2004

Mine was originally S/W: MP1.14.

Software versions that I've seen: V1.12, V1.14, V1.15, V1.17

Brand new still in the box 3410 just sold on EBay for $865. I wonder if it was someone from these forums.

Wasn't me, but I have a new one I may put up soon . . .

Notwithstanding any cable flexing, I just won a 3410a on Ebay, and wondering where to get the latest firmware (V#.17). Also, if there is any source code so I can do some C programming on it.

I don't know of either source or executable availabilty, but I'd love to. Even if I had to program something other than C. I'd love to be able to subroutineize some code so I could read stuff from the HDD employing Windows or linux and copy data from the internal Quickview HDD to another HDD. I already have one Quickview HDD full of good programming outside the box to try it with.

rf & Jan, Thanks for the info. I was just wondering where I stood in the software progression. Since Jan indicated above that the move to 1.17 did not help the Guide issues, I won't worry about upgrades.

Appreciate the info,

1.17 does speed up tuning/channel changing

Thanks for that info, Marc.

I run 3 of these. 2 have 1.17 and 1 has 1.15. All three are connected to Comcast cable and an OTA roof mounted antenna. I can not tell them apart in terms of performance. All three do change certain channels without external input. These are cable channels. I thought it occurred on channels that had many sub channels but that is not true. I thought 1.17 was supposed to fix this.

There was a post here a long, long while back, and it was from someone who encountered a problem getting audio on a channel (forgot which, cable or OTA), and he sent the unit in, and LG returned it with V1.17 on it, and the problem was gone. I seem to recall it involved incorrect audio or no audio received on a channel.

I asked what V1.17 did compared to V1.15 (back when I had someone I could talk to on this), and neither he nor I got a definate "Why" answer, so I'm in the dark as you are..

I have the same memory Jan. Unfortunately, my 1.17 and 1.15's do the same channel changing.

Had a call to a company for work, and I asked about what becomes of our V7 TVG
boxes next February.

The plan is to have a converter box support SCTE 127

This he tells me is something Comcast is even pushing, and set boxes (some, if not all) will support.

Their's been talk of the Echostar TR-40 supporting it. It's priced at $39.99 (and will be free after the govt. coupon), and is supposed to become available around July '08.

Their TR-50 ATSC HD DVR will supposedly be using the digital-based TVGOS with a Dish Network-styled guide, and the TR-40 will have it's own TVGOS guide too, apparently.

Had a call to a company for work, and I asked about what becomes of our V7 TVG
boxes next February.

The plan is to have a converter box support SCTE 127

This he tells me is something Comcast is even pushing, and set boxes (some, if not all) will support.

...can you tell me what SCTE 27 is, and when you say "a converter box," I assume you're referring to one of the d-to-a boxes for people with analog tvs...?

With a 3410 that has given me good service, I continue to wonder whether it will be fully functional after next February..

Thanks for your info...

PS I know some of you are aware of the seeming progress that's being made in understanding what might happen in this respect with the Sony 250/500, which I also have one of... those units apparently have their firmware updated periodically, along with the daily TVGOS updates...as a result it appears that those units CAN get the TVGOS data from the CBS digital stations that are beginning to carry it...

there's been no mention of this possibililty on this thread, so I guess that's NOT a capability with v7???

V7 is analog only TVG. V8 I believe is also analog only, (I believe the LG DVR's in the Plasma display's were V8). Reason why I think this is because in Chicagoland V7 stations are 7-0 and 32-0 (-0 meaning analog), with V8 TVG being transmitted on PBS on 11-0, and CBS is doing Experimental V9 work on 2-1 (-1 meaning digital)...

Am I right on this, John?

On the 'box' issue: I plan on calling in a favor in October/November on which boxes worked best... Conversation today specifically mentioned V7 TVG as being covered.

V7 is analog only TVG. V8 I believe is also analog only, (I believe the LG DVR's in the Plasma display's were V8). Reason why I think this is because in Chicagoland V7 stations are 7-0 and 32-0 (-0 meaning analog), with V8 TVG being transmitted on PBS on 11-0, and CBS is doing Experimental V9 work on 2-1 (-1 meaning digital)...

Am I right on this, John?

On the 'box' issue: I plan on calling in a favor in October/November on which boxes worked best... Conversation today specifically mentioned V7 TVG as being covered.

hmm...have you looked at the Sony 250 thread lately? this unit uses v8, and some people in that thread have been seriously experimenting with forcing the unit away from the PBS analog source, and the unit diagnostics seem to show it's getting data from cbs-1 stations, i.e., the primary digital stations. These experiments began to be reported in late February and extend through a lot of March, with a little commentary on it even into April....

THEY'VE concluded that v8 data IS being carried over some CBS stations already, and that these units are able to pick it up!!! (They're also trying to keep track of which digital CBS stations have begun transmitting the tvgos data.)

So I know that v8 WAS analog only, but this seems to indicate that it's now beginning to appear on the CBS digital stations, along with the more recent TVGOS versions...

Even if so, it may not be relevant to the 3410, if they're not planning on transmitting the v7 data OR if the 3410 is not capable of updating (which wouldn't be surprising), in which the only hope is the d-to-a conversion units, and even then it depends on whether or not the 3410 would be confused by an analog stream that may or may not identify itself as an analog station...

anybody else in this thread been following what's going on with the Sony? Rammi...?

Just what I mentioned above with the TR-40. I haven't heard anything definite from either Sony or TVGOS.

If one of the ATSC converters don't do it, I'm pretty sure they'll come up with some other kind of add-on device.

As for the claimants you mentioned above, I don't put much stock in any reported experiences of the TVGOS versions below the 9th picking up the data digitally on their own, without "help". All I've been hearing for over a couple of years now is that no version below the 9th will be able to get it on it's own.

If you go way back in the Sony thread you'll find that we were seeing data on digital channels nearly 3 years ago, since the codes that let us do so were discovered. These people could be "forcing" the digital host channel in there, and seeing it listed in the service menu, then checking the digital host channel and seeing completely irrelevant data showing in it. If it were "taking", why doesn't the channel stick? Why does it always revert back to the analog host channel in a short time? That's what it does when it's not getting the TVGOS data from the forced channel.

Sorry, but I will remain skeptical unless I actually see it with my own unit. Or at least until someone can show definite proof that a digital host channel stuck for good in the service menu.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wwxman
Notwithstanding any cable flexing, I just won a 3410a on Ebay, and wondering where to get the latest firmware (V#.17). Also, if there is any source code so I can do some C programming on it.

I don't know of either source or executable availabilty, but I'd love to. Even if I had to program something other than C. I'd love to be able to subroutineize some code so I could read stuff from the HDD employing Windows or linux and copy data from the internal Quickview HDD to another HDD. I already have one Quickview HDD full of good programming outside the box to try it with.

Just got the 3410a from a seller on ebay. Here is a trouble shooting trace:

-Plugged in, set video to composite thru a Sony Bravia.
-Tuner came on with NTSB signal.
-No clock time indicated
-No response to guide button on front panel or remote.
-Next, was able to do OTA scan, found 30+ HD channels.
-Went to setup TV Guide, using menu>dvr>tvguide>... hit next to enter setup and menu dissapears !!!
-Clock would not set, it said I needs to clear a program that had been sheduled for recording.
-Did a HDD format, nothing..
-Got the Diag screen up, ran most diags, seemed ok. Did not test "Gemstar" yet.
-Did one of the undocummented fixes called "First BirthDay", reset went ok
-Clock now is set to Jan 15, 2004 10 am. Good to see a time
-try to set time, not allowed, (i) error-tried rescan of channels, now it says you must setup TVG (gee wizz)
-Firmware 1.12


Almost ready to return back, but still troubleshooting, any help?

I've been working on one 3410a for a couple months now... Symptom is as follows:
Will receive data, but the TVG List shows "NO LISTING" for most all channels two days out from today. Tomorrow the two day gap remains, just two days away.
If I do a scheduled recording during this two day gap, it does program a recording, and do it (The inforrmation on the recording pops into the TVG 2 days befrore the scheduled recording, as does other data), so I think the data was there all along, but the displayed data for TVG Scaning path is broke. Far too deep for me to determine unless I sat down and spoke with design engineer, to determine which 'path' on the TVG board is doing what function.... (Which is data to the memory chips -- which is readout path from memory chips to display--while you scan TVG)... In other words, I'm trapped unless I get a Known good TVG board to swap with, to confirm my suspicions, and that would only verify the problem is on TVG board.

So, since I'm for the most part, dead in the water on this paticular problem, I decided to try albertso's "Lock the channel" fix on this unit. The home Zipcode for this unit is within Chicagoland's TVG Station (I'm locking it to WLS 7-0 because I have personal knowledge of the signal path there, and know the guy who installed the TVG encoder there--ME!). So I set it for his Zipcode, and locked it to WLS 7-0, and sat back and watched.... (Did it same time I locked our 3).
When it gave me a channel list, I contacted Yohay (Owner) asking which was correct for him (I didn't know) and once that data was entered, in a few days I had a solid week's TVG data.

I'm wondering if the "Lock the channel" setting albertso posted will help prevent "Gaps" in the TVG Listings.... ????

I don't know, but toss the idea out for discussion....

At times, troubleshooting this unit is part knowledge, part 'playing hunches' :)!

@Jan,

As you know I'm still working with Nick. He had me choose a channel lineup that pointed to perceived 'wrong' mappings for me. (Not the one I have always chosen). I am getting data now, but still have 'holes' in my listings like you saw. FWIW, he is having me send pictures of diagnostic pages 1,2,7 and 19. The majority of listings in channel editor are correct, but obviously some are not. My known host channel listings are correct now. He has not asked me to perform the 'lock host channel' procedure yet.

I still have to do the unplug/replug every so often when TVG locks up and I get the 'AV1,AV2,HDD invalid scheduled recoding' message (even though nothing was scheduled to record). My conversations with him lead me to believe this last issue is an LG glitch that TVG will never be able to correct. That is sad because it means those of us that suffer this problem can never be assured that a scheduled recording will take place (even if using VCR+). It seems when the machine gets in this state nothing short of a power disconnect will clear it. I have noticed one thing that seems to indicate the machine is either approaching this state or has already entered, is when my GUIDE light stays on almost continuously.

Did you try to block the Aux connections?

Yes. I always make sure AV1 & AV2 are blocked (turned off). I don't have anything attached to them. But it doesn't seem to matter. I get the error message even though I have not scheduled any recordings since the last time. It will happen even after doing a 'first birthday' and never once having recorded anything. I must admit it seems strange that it never did this while you had it. Nick doesn't have an answer for that. I still have my hunch that there is corrupt data being passed by my host. Or perhaps something not being passed and needed that is causing my symptoms. A week ago Fri. & Sat. it could not even set the clock after a first birthday. Magically on Sun. the clock returned and I got partial listings. I was assured all is well with my host. Go figure ;).

Jan & rf,

I have solid listings now for 7 days. But, I still get the AV1 error periodically. Short plug pull fixes it and now I don't screw up the listing download after the pull. Before, it would mess up the process. I have not actually done anything except the lock channel code, so it is still a mystery. None the less, I now know that the process works and I can see if I can find a source on my cable side. It really gals me not to be able to use the QAM channels and get listings from cable at the same time.

Thanks for all the combined info.

Jan & rf,

It really gals me not to be able to use the QAM channels and get listings from cable at the same time.

I don't understand. If you allow CADTV/QAM it prevents guide data from filling in?

Hi rf,

Unless I am doing something very dumb (and, of course, that is not unheard of ;)), over the air and cable are mutually exclusive. Since COMCAST is blocking the TVGOS data on the cable version of my PBS station, I have no source of guide data when a select "cable" for the input. so, no guide. I have not figured out how to get the OTA guide data while using cable.

I think I understand now. Your cableco is not passing the VBI data from your host. Shame on them!

I read (think it was in the Sony 500 thread) about someone else with similar issue. Their solution was to use an A/B switch in front of the cable input. At night he would switch the cable input to B (not connected to anything), thus disconnecting cable and leave the OTA input continuously connected.

I realize it is very kludgey, but might be worth a try.

Hi rf,

Unless I am doing something very dumb (and, of course, that is not unheard of ;)), over the air and cable are mutually exclusive. Since COMCAST is blocking the TVGOS data on the cable version of my PBS station, I have no source of guide data when a select "cable" for the input. so, no guide. I have not figured out how to get the OTA guide data while using cable.

Fred ---- You have email and an IM

Hello everyone...my box hangs-up at the "Hello" screen. I've already replaced the caps so does anyone have any other ideas? As I step through the troubleshooting chart in the service manual I always end up at the re-flash solution. Has re-flashing solved any similar issues? I wasn't able to grab the latest flash and loading software so if anyone thinks this may help and has the files send a pm. Great thread!

Have you tried booting with the HDD unplugged (both power and data cables)?

yes...same thing just "hello".

I doubt you'll be able to re-flash until it finishes booting... I'm working on a unit that won't even get to Hello......

Even with hard drive and TVG board removed!
:(

Has anyone been able to initiate the H/W test using a PC described in the service manual page 23 section 3-11? I follow the instructions and key "Shift + D" in TerraTerm, but can never get a prompt for the password. I know my connection is good because I can enter and see the flash rom utility messages from page 21 section 3-9.

I've not bee able to do it either, but I'm wondering if that takes a separate Diagnostic Eprom...... One evening, on your unit, I tried it... Haven't done it on any others yet...
The one I'm working on now sure could use it.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that LG service has a Diagnostic Prom, that, when needed, goes in IC 108, and is accessed by changing switches (See page 3-74). And might even Re-Load the Flash Ram (I'm very un-clear on that.)


Lord knows what IC 105 is doing.....

End of tonights experiments....

I discovered how initiate the H/W test using PC. With PC connected to LG service port using serial cable open TeraTerm or other terminal program. Make sure serial port is set for 115200, 8, N, 1, caps lock off. While holding down "Shift + T" on PC, turn on 3410 using front panel power button. You should get a password prompt. Enter "svcLST3410" (case sensitive passsord). Choose which test to run or enter "T" for all. Individual tests seem to yield more data than when using the "T" option.

Here is a link to the LST-3410A service manual (http://136.166.4.200/contents/STB/LST-3410A/LST-3410A%20Service%20Manual.pdf) for those interested.

Here is a useful link to the main page for LG devices (http://136.166.4.200/video.htm) by category with user and service manuals.

OH YOU'RE GOOD!!!!!

Where did you get the "Shift T" information???

Unfortunately, it didn't work on the unit I'm working on that won't report "Hello", but I did try it on another here....

THANK YOU --- That's "BIG"

to make a cable for interfacing from PC to 3410a, good for testing as mentioned two posts back..... and also for updating firmware.

PC D9 Female to D9 Male 3410a

2------------------2
3------------------3
5------------------5

DO NOT use any other pins on the serial connector at 3410a end... It is used for programming the gate arrays on the motherboard...

It was blind luck really. I suspected it had to do with translation issues and I noticed many typo's in the manual. So I began reading the service manuals for the HDR230 and LST-4200A machines. It was the latter that provided my 'eureka' moment. :)

Here is a screen capture of the diagnostics I ran yesterday. My unit passes all tests.

Password: svcLST3410

============================================================ ====
ROM TEST Program For PVR STB-II : LST-3410A (2003/09/26)
============================================================ ====



--------------------- System Info ----------------------
Processor = 405GP, PVR: 40110145
Processor speed = 200 MHz
PLB speed = 100 MHz
OPB speed = 33 MHz
Ext Bus speed = 33 MHz
PCI Bus speed = 33 MHz (Sync)
Amount of SDRAM = 32 MBytes
Internal PCI arbiter enabled
--------------------------------------------------------
PCF8584_A Default Own Addr= 0
PCF8584_A Control= 0
PCF8584_A Own Addr= 55
PCF8584 ID ACK= 0
PCF8584 ID ACK= 0
******************* TEST MENU******************

1 - System SDRAM Test
2 - HD-II Memory Test
3 - HD-II DMA Test
5 - PCF8584-A(TUNER/MICOM/GEMSTAR Test)
6 - CPU I2C(EEPROM/VSB/4450/3226/170B) Test
7 - PCI Device(TPN-II/IDE/KFIR) Test
8 - IDE R/W Test
9 - Video Display Test
T - Device Total Test
D - Ethernet Ping Test
E - TI-1394 Test
F - GPIO Test
S - LST3410A Main program start
->t
PCF8584 ID ACK= 0
PCF8584 ID ACK= 0

============================System Test==============================
System SDRAM Test----------------------------->OK(32MB)
HD2 Test-------------------------------------->OK
HD2 DMA Test---------------------------------->OK
IIC EEPROM Test------------------------------->OK
VSB Test-------------------------------------->OK
Tuner IIC Test-------------------------------->OK
TPN-II & MEMORY Test-------------------------->OK
IDE Device Test------------------------------->OK
KFIR MPEG ENCODER Device Test----------------->OK
HDD R/W Test--------------------------------->OK
Video Display Out Test---->>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
TI 1394 Device Test--------------------------->OK
I2C GEMSTAR Test------------------------------>OK
I2C MSP4450 Audio Test------------------------>OK
I2C VPX3226 Test------------------------------>OK
I2C SIL170 Test------------------------------->OK
Front Test------------------------------------>OK

*************************System Test Result**************************

01.System SDRAM Test------------------------------>OK
03.HD2 Test--------------------------------------->OK
04.HD2 DMA Test----------------------------------->OK
05.I2C EEPROM Test-------------------------------->OK
06.VSB Test--------------------------------------->OK
07.I2C Tuner Test--------------------------------->OK
08.TPN-II & MEMORY Test--------------------------->OK
09.IDE Device Test-------------------------------->OK
10.KFIR MPEG ENCODER Device Test------------------>OK
11.HDD Read/Write Test---------------------------->OK
12.TI 1394 Device Test---------------------------->OK
13.I2C GEMSTAR Test------------------------------->OK
14.I2C MSP4450 Audio Test------------------------->OK
15.I2C VPX3226 Test------------------------------->OK
16.I2C SIL170 Test-------------------------------->OK
17.Front Test------------------------------------->OK

************************************************************ *********


Any Key for Main Memu

My work ticket with Nick and TVGOS has come to an end. We did not learn much except it was verified that my host is sending proper data and that he had me to choose an alternative channel lineup during setup that I would have never chosen. The new lineup choice seems to be more stable, but I still have random lock-ups. TVG has said that this issue is beyond their control and lies with LG. I'm told my current experience is likely as good as I can expect. I guess I'll wait now and see what comes to us as a solution for guide data after next February.

I knew I kept reading this thread for a reason. Hopefully that trick will also work on my 3510.

Mac,

Download your service manual here (http://136.166.4.200/contents/STB/LST-3510A/LST-3510A_Service_Manual.pdf).
You might have to experiment a little. It mentions holding down "Shift + S" and "Shift + B". I did not see mention of a password so your mileage may vary.

Way to go rf!!

Now we have a whole new tool to check these pesky units.

Thanks a lot,

"We"?

You gotta be smart to do this stuff. It flies way over my head. ;-)

Today I found holding down "Shift + D" does in fact bring up a password prompt. After entering it brings up a menu that may be just another way to update firmware. Here is a screen cap.

Password: svcLST3410



LG Digital PVR Tuner 2003 Boot Loader Ver 1.04 09/05/2003
(C)Digital TV Laboratory, LG Electronics Inc.




Confirm Flash ROM update (Y/N)

Program restart.

I chose No and the machine finished booting normally. I was curious and tried all the other alphabetic combinations using the Shift key. And some others using Ctrl and Alt combinations. I never found any others that produced a password prompt. I did try holding down lower case d, t, b, and s, but they failed to yield a prompt as well. Think I'll give my poor machine a rest now. :)

TVG has said that this issue is beyond their control and lies with LG. I'm told my current experience is likely as good as I can expect. I guess I'll wait now and see what comes to us as a solution for guide data after next February.

Thanks to all contributing to this thread. It has been invaluable to understanding this machine and unlocking its secrets.

Hi rfburns,
I have kept pace with this entire thread from the beginning. The life of the machine related to Gemstar, the Guide and the NTSC cutoff date next year has always been one of my concerns. As far as HD reproduction Blu-ray is the only format which exceeds the picture quality of this machine.

With my 3410a I have experienced very few of the problems other users/posters have experienced. I attribute that to two things:

1) Our machine is only used for ATSC, no scans for NTSC or Cable.

2) All unecessary channels are turned off.

There is a note which may or may not be in the Owners Manual that pops up at the bottom of the channel editing page. It says; "more than 50 channels in the Guide setup will result in incomplete Guide information" (no listing ?). I believe this is due to a memory limitation of the 3410a.

Currently ATSC Guide population at my location (Gurnee north of Chicago, IL) includes 38 channels last time I counted. One of my other ATSC TVs gets a few more than this because it uses a different Guide source (?). It is easy to see if NTSC, ATSC and Cable are all "on" how the machine gets overloaded quickly.
Additionally, if the 3410a is programmed to record and the Network(s) replaces, eliminates, or moves the show 3410a gets confused. Some have called this a "currupted Guide stream" but I call it lack of maintenance at the source (Gemstar).

Sincerely,
Leg one

Thanks, Leg One,

I use mine the same way you do, even though I also get cable (I use a Tivo S3 for that). That might explain why I've had almost no problems.

Hey Jan,
Please check your PM
Wilson

I, too, had many "No Listings" with my two HDD/DVD recorders that have the V7 guide when I used them with Comcast analog cable a few years back and had over 50 channels in the list. As soon as I whittled it down under 50, it was fine.

I did mention the "not over 50 channels" notice in the manual at least once before in this thread, not too awful long ago I think, but since there was no kind of response to my post whatsoever, I just assumed everyone already knew that or wasn't doing it anyway, so I never brought it up again.

But even if you are just one over at 51 channels, you will have problems. It has to stay under that. That's what my experimentations told me.

Rammitinski,

I believe you are suggesting that after the 3410A scans for channels, analog and/or digital, one should only allow a maximum of 50 channels to appear in the actual listings. You further state that doing this will resolve the periodic "No Listings" problem in the program lists.

I have always kept the number of active channels below 20 channels but now I have over 120 active channels. I have seen no difference in the frequency of the "No Listings" events. With three of these running off the same tap I can tell you that each unit develops "No Listings" arbitrarily and independently of the others. My machines have 1.15 and 1.17. Please correct me if my understanding is wrong of what LG gwants us to do. I would sure like to resolve this. BTW, I also have (2) 3416 HD DVR's runing off the same tap. These always receive the guide listing information without a problem. Unfortunately their memory is volatile and I lose listings whenever the power goes down. Thankfully, the LG's retain listings when power is interrupted.

Because I really never got any response when I mentioned it before, I just thought maybe no one had seen it. I just wanted to stress it again after Leg One brought it up in case. If you're under 50 channels, your guess is as good as mine. But it probably wouldn't hurt to try it again, in case they've fixed something on the host channel station's end since you went back to more than 50 channels.

I'm just trying to think of everything to help, because I'm stumped too. My TVGOS units all still work fine here, and I'm in the same market as Leg One and JanJ. But like Leg One, I only use them with, and get my guide info from OTA.

We must be careful to separate belief from fact. Because TVGOS operation drops out periodically and arbitrarily on one or more (but not necessarily all) of my 3 3410A's, I believe the issue has more to do with the machines than the stations transmitting the data. This is an observation but it is based on fact.

[QUOTE=MrHifi;13653107]We must be careful to separate belief from fact./QUOTE]

Hi MrHifi,
Yes I agree we must isolate operator error (sorry everyone), defective Guide(s), faulty hardware and environmental conditions. If I missed anything help me out.

The only time I lose Guide data is when a program is scheduled using the Guide and it never shows. By never shows I mean it was in the Guide for programing the recording but at the scheduled time it is gone.

This could be that the Guide has changed (new entry, not proven) while the scheduled entry is the missing one (not updated). Ultimately
the machine locks if you don't immediately delete the old schedule upon turning the machine on he next time.

Last night CBS (2.1 channel in Chicago) was low strength resulting in dropouts while I was watching David Letterman. Is the Guide channel effected similarly resulting in incomplete Guide or updating? Or is the Guide just plan wrong because it is composed incorrectly?

Sincerely,
Leg one

I've thought that some of the TVG issues were the result of insufficient power supply filtering. I came around to this idea after a post from John T., who indicated that his 3410a on a UPS gave him less problems than without. I confirmed this when I purchased a UPS for my (Then 2 3410a's) and notied they were less problamatical.
It was only after one 3410 started rebooting on it's own, that I gambled by checking the ESR of caps, and found leaking caps on the 3.8v supply. At work, a manager's predicessor to the 3410a did same thing, and then wouldn't get through "HELLO". At that point I had nothing to lose, and shotgunned the caps on the supply, and it fixed the problem. By then I had stumbled onto the fact that the 3.8v supply fed an on-board 3.3v regulator, and I looked at values used, and thought it could be improved...

That's how the power supply mod came about. (I'm still on a UPS for the 3410a's).

I'll tell you something that is just as important....

The "Lock the channel" proceedure that I believe albertso posted has been just as successful as the power supply upgrade....
I haven't had to touch the 3410a's since I put that in all 3 of them!!
(Of course now I broke my luck!!!! )

I've thought that some of the TVG issues were the result of insufficient power supply filtering. I came around to this idea after a post from John T., who indicated that his 3410a on a UPS gave him less problems than without. I confirmed this when I purchased a UPS for my (Then 2 3410a's) and notied they were less problamatical.

Hi Jan,
This is great stuff. I think your definitely on the correct track. My caps have not failed yet (not actually measured)!

My first experience with Guide problem occured when I plugged the 3410a directly into a Monster Powercenter. The Powercenter kept turning off (no Guide). Turns out that voltage to our house is consistantly 131 volts except in real high demand periods during the summer. Devices like power conditioners are not design for high values like that (protection). Everytime it kicked out I missed a scheduled program. This problem was remedied by a Monster Power Stabilizer (121 volts).
Once the unit was stable and stayed on no more Guide problems until the missing scheduled program showed up.
It was brought to my attention that any equipment operating much over 115 volts ac is at risk of premature failure (hmm capacitors). This includes projector bulbs (experienced that too).

Sincerely,
Martin

I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that LG service has a Diagnostic Prom, that, when needed, goes in IC 108, and is accessed by changing switches (See page 3-74).

Jan,
Have you tried jiggering the dip switch on the machine that fails at 'hello'? That page above seems to indicate 3 separate boot choices (not including bit selection). Not knowing the default setting I would not choose the one that involves writing to the flash memory, but would try the other two first. I'll go out on a limb and guess that either probe rom or flash memory are the default strap loader and the other is a stored copy if one gets corrupted. BIG guess on my part! My understanding is these machines use a custom linux micro kernel for an OS.

Also if you don't mind could you post the default dip switch setting? My cover is on and would save me from having to 'pop the hood'. :)

Last night CBS (2.1 channel in Chicago) was low strength resulting in dropouts while I was watching David Letterman. Is the Guide channel effected similarly resulting in incomplete Guide or updating?No, not in that case because you're not getting guide data from 2.1, or any other digital channel. The guide data might only be affected that way if your analog host channel was completely dropping out (if it's snowy, it won't be disrupted - you don't need a very strong signal to get the data - just consistent).

I'll look into that tomorrow night... The unit I'm working on could very well have been played with.... I'll open another and document that one.... Tomorrow...

My DIP switch (J101) is:
1 OFF
2 ON
3 OFF
4 ON
5 OFF

Thanks ebo. From the manual page 80, sect. 3-74, that would indicate that boot mode selection = 32-bit and boot device selection = flash memory.

Jan, you might try setting boot mode selection to 'probe rom booting only'. Maybe even try 8-bit setting.

The 32 bit and boot device = 32 bit results in the default settings of J101.
1=Off 2=ON 3=OFF 4=ON 5=OFF.
On the problem child tried other combinations along with "Shift D" "Shift T".... Got no-where.
Dragged out the scope, and near the botttom of the First system flow diagram, I'm finding the clock on the Flash Ram Resistors X83, X84 (Don't have schematics open while I type) very reduced in amplitude... Gonna have to trace that backward. I looked at schemos for a while and couldn't find source of the clock.

I never mentioned this before, but There was something liquid dropped on this board a long time ago, copper suffate grew on a bunch of pins. worst cast sernerio: it's on a vhd (Very High Density) memory chip on the PVR circuitry. I cleaned it with alcohol and toothbrush, and let it sit before power up, but I'm gonna get some Flux Off and a dental pick and try that area again... seeing that something is loading down a clock...
This ain't gonna be fun at all....

Hi guys,

Successfully chose Ch 22 MD MPT locally as exclusive Host Channel. However, nothing changed. Still get no Guide Lamp or Guide info unless I unplug/replug. Noticed something intersting though; if I turn on other components in my system, it sometimes triggrs guide lights to turn on on all machines. However, when I go in to set desired recordings, I can not bring up the guide because everything is frozen. Unplug/replug fixes it.

QUESTION: I tried to turn off AV1 and AV2 per instructions Jan provided. When I select MENU then DVR there is no "Aux Block". Help!!!!

QUESTION: I tried to turn off AV1 and AV2 per instructions Jan provided. When I select MENU then DVR there is no "Aux Block". Help!!!!

Art, I'm glad you brought that up! It caused me to realize I have been making the wrong choice for some time.
To BLOCK (turn off) AV1, AV2:
[Menu > Lock > Aux. Block > ON]
It's counter intuitive in a way, thus causing me to leave my default setting to OFF. Here OFF = enabled!

Hi rf,

Nice catch on the AuxBlock on/off. Sure is backwards. I was on and I had thought I was off.

Thanks,

Referring to my last post, where I refer to the resistors R183 & R184 (page3-43). That comes from U100, the Power PC CPU AC26, S_CLKOUT0 which starts, and then immediately stops. Suspect that the CPU is being held in Reset mode. Bummer.

Art, I'm glad you brought that up! It caused me to realize I have been making the wrong choice for some time.
To BLOCK (turn off) AV1, AV2:
[Menu > Lock > Aux. Block > ON]
It's counter intuitive in a way, thus causing me to leave my default setting to OFF. Here OFF = enabled!

OK, now that makes sense. I set it and have had god luck capturing program info from cable. So, I have now turned off AV1 & 2 and successfully selected the host channel in my area, Analog Ch 22, Maryland Public Television (MPT). MPT digital is very unstable on cable. MPT has chosen to run 5 digital subchannels, i.e. 22.1-22.5. One of these, 22.2, is the HD feed. The 3410 will jump off these channels onto another. Please understand that I have been referring to the OTA and cable number. On the 3410A it appears at the 125's. As I said previously, there are many subcarriers on 125. I have not been able to trust the 3410 to stay on one of these cable channels and record. I am eager to test whether the selection of the host channel will resolve this.

OK, now that makes sense. I set it and have had god luck capturing program info from cable. So, I have now turned off AV1 & 2 and successfully selected the host channel in my area, Analog Ch 22, Maryland Public Television (MPT). MPT digital is very unstable on cable. MPT has chosen to run 5 digital subchannels, i.e. 22.1-22.5. One of these, 22.2, is the HD feed. The 3410 will jump off these channels onto another. Please understand that I have been referring to the OTA and cable number. On the 3410A it appears at the 125's. As I said previously, there are many subcarriers on 125. I have not been able to trust the 3410 to stay on one of these cable channels and record. I am eager to test whether the selection of the host channel will resolve this.

Hi Hifi...I have to ask you an off-topic question regarding the MPT channels you refer to...my father gets MPT from Comcast (via their Salisbury Md lineup) and I was surprised that the 3 subchannels he gets almost NEVER has HD programming. I can't remember which subchannel is supposed to be HD, but - unlike my experience with PBS in the Bay Area (the SF Bay area, I should emphasize) - very little of the evening programming is in HD...is that what you find (assuming you see it well enough to know...) Thanks!

Wish I could help you but as you presumed, I rarely record these channels because of the aforementioned issues. Instead, i record WETA with my 3410A. I have noticed on other occasions that 22.2 rarely provides HD programming any more. This is 15.2 on the 3410A.

What is the general consensus on how going to all digital in February affect these units? Will a digital to analogue box need to be hooked to it? Will the converter box have to be set to the channel that carries the TV guide signal? If that is a work around will, the unit then only be asble to record whatever channel happens to be set on the converter box? Just wondering if anyone has any info. Chasie

Bad news.... Both my active units continue to intermittently show the AV1 AV2 error and go to No Listings even though I set the Host Channel and turned off AV1 & 2. I have to wonder if reports posted here about the effectiveness of these workarounds are not based on anectdotal rather than factual evidence.

What is the general consensus on how going to all digital in February affect these units? Will a digital to analogue box need to be hooked to it? Will the converter box have to be set to the channel that carries the TV guide signal? If that is a work around will, the unit then only be asble to record whatever channel happens to be set on the converter box? Just wondering if anyone has any info. Chasie

It is known that the OTA analog TVGOS data our units require will cease. A box could be built to transform digital OTA TVGOS data to legacy requirements, but at what cost? There is speculation that someone will indeed produce such a box. It would be in TVGOS best interest to see this come to fruition for all legacy device owners, which there are many. The box 'should' be transparent and allow one to continue to receive guide data and use the legacy TVGOS device just as before. Again, it is only speculation and I expect we will have to wait until early 2009 to see if and how this comes to pass.

Another method could be for TVGOS to allow the cable companies which still send analog signals to pass the vbi data on a spare channel. Politics get involved and cable companies are increasingly moving to all digital platforms now too.

I'm not holding my breath, but taking an optimistic wait and see attitude. It is worth noting that the 3410a has the ability to allow for manual clock setting. This 'should' assure the ability to continue to use the recorder for manual time/date scheduling via VCR+ button. It is my understanding those in the Sony camp are very frustrated about this. They will loose their only ability to set clock/date when the signals end, thus rendering scheduled recording impossible.

rfburns--Thanks for the long and thoughtful update! chasie

What is the general consensus on how going to all digital in February affect these units? Will a digital to analogue box need to be hooked to it? Will the converter box have to be set to the channel that carries the TV guide signal? If that is a work around will, the unit then only be asble to record whatever channel happens to be set on the converter box? Just wondering if anyone has any info. Chasie

To add to what was already said re your question, there has been more specific discussion of converting the TVGOS data from the CBS-carried data, mostly in the thread on Sony 250 units, but also discussed here in February - especially in some posts of mine (e.g. this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13067782#post13067782)) - about this topic.

If you go to that post, you'll note that a Gemstar guy is quoted as already having tested one converter box (from RCA) and confirming that the TVGOS data was passed. That doesn't mean, of course, that what he said is accurate, but it is SOME indication that these boxes will pass the data, mainly because it is in the same "legacy" vbi streams in which closed captioning data are included.

One thing we DON"T know (to my knowledge) is whether the TVGOS data that is broadcast by CBS on its digital stations (some of which are already doing so, according to posts in the Sony thread) will INCLUDE the v7 data that the 3410a expects.

I've also speculated that if our unit will RECOGNIZE the converted stream (assuming there IS a v7 data set), then one of either two setups will work for the 3410a: 1) if the converter passes the original antenna signal unchanged (which includes all the digital channels from the antenna) and simply ADDS the channel 3/4 analog version of the cbs station with the TVGOS data to the rf signal, then the 3410a will have what it needs to work, and 2) if the converter doesn't pass the original antenna signal, then a splitter on the antenna cable, with one branch going through the d-to-a converter and then joined back to the other branch produces the same result, i.e., an rf signal with the broadcast stations PLUS an analog version of the CBS station on channel 3 or 4. The potential snafu with this arrangement is that the LG would find something in the converted analog signal that identifies itself as the original CBS digital station, instead of channel 3 or 4, and it then "coughs," yielding nothing good.

By the way,there has also been a lot of discussion in the Sony thread about indications that the current TVGOS data also updates the Sony firmware to directly recognize the TVGOS data from digital CBS stations that are already broadcasting it, but this (if true) doesn't seem to be relevant to the 3410a, since there is no indication that its TVGOS firmware gets updated from the broadcast data. (By the way, in that thread, it is also claimed that that someone from Sony has said that their unit will automatically handle the transition, but I'm pretty sure, based on following this thread that LG reps have made no comparable statement about this OR about whether the v7 data will be broadcast by CBS stations. (I really think they owe us a statement about the LATTER!!!)

Finally, I googled the RCA unit referred to in the Gemstar person's statement, and it led me to a whole list of items, the first of which was an avs thread specifically about this unit, but - even better - to the fact that there are couple of LONG threads (ATSC converter box comparisons (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12860404#post12860404) and converter boxes sold in the major stores (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13181369#post13181369)) about any of the converter units that people want to talk about...not that they are talking specifically about the TVGOS issue, but after I post this I intend to go back and search on those llong threads...

cheers - Tony

PS I'm happy to be corrected on anything I've said above, and also on something I - along with others here - have also said, namely, that we won't really know how the 3410a responds to the transition until AFTER the analog stations are gone, and people are actually trying the converter boxes IN THE ABSENCE of those signals.

After many years of a happy relationship with my 3410A, I find that I'm no longer using it to record anything. My situation is similar to the boss running away with the cute secretary... since the TioHD came into my life, I've had eyes for little else. The ease in which I can move shows between the TivoHD and my PC, sealed the fate of the 3410A.

It is one of the early 3410As, with the original firmware, but still works fine as far as I can tell. Anyway... I'm getting ready to take it off my rack. If anyone is interested in buying it from me, let me know. I probably have the original boxes and all that stuff (not looked in the basement yet, but I'm a pack rat).

Hyrax,

Sorry to see you hanging it up. You and I have been here from the beginning and I will miss your reparte'. I understand why you are hanging it up because I use 2 Motorola 3416 HD DVR's They record 2 HD shows and let me watch a pre recorded show in real time. The technology has advanced since our 3410A's first appeared. Having said that I must say that picturewise my 3410A's deliver the best picture of any of my playback systems. They got that perfect. I watch using a 96" wide screen and I am terribly picky as you know. Well, goodbye my friend. Maybe we will run into each other again in these forums. I doubt that we will ever have as many trepidations as we had with the 3410's.

To add to what was already said re your question, there has been more specific discussion of converting the TVGOS data from the CBS-carried data, mostly in the thread on Sony 250 units, but also discussed here in February - especially in some posts of mine (e.g. this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13067782#post13067782)) - about this topic.

If you go to that post, you'll note that a Gemstar guy is quoted as already having tested one converter box (from RCA) and confirming that the TVGOS data was passed. That doesn't mean, of course, that what he said is accurate, but it is SOME indication that these boxes will pass the data, mainly because it is in the same "legacy" vbi streams in which closed captioning data are included.

One thing we DON"T know (to my knowledge) is whether the TVGOS data that is broadcast by CBS on its digital stations (some of which are already doing so, according to posts in the Sony thread) will INCLUDE the v7 data that the 3410a expects.

I've also speculated that if our unit will RECOGNIZE the converted stream (assuming there IS a v7 data set), then one of either two setups will work for the 3410a: 1) if the converter passes the original antenna signal unchanged (which includes all the digital channels from the antenna) and simply ADDS the channel 3/4 analog version of the cbs station with the TVGOS data to the rf signal, then the 3410a will have what it needs to work, and 2) if the converter doesn't pass the original antenna signal, then a splitter on the antenna cable, with one branch going through the d-to-a converter and then joined back to the other branch produces the same result, i.e., an rf signal with the broadcast stations PLUS an analog version of the CBS station on channel 3 or 4. The potential snafu with this arrangement is that the LG would find something in the converted analog signal that identifies itself as the original CBS digital station, instead of channel 3 or 4, and it then "coughs," yielding nothing good.

By the way,there has also been a lot of discussion in the Sony thread about indications that the current TVGOS data also updates the Sony firmware to directly recognize the TVGOS data from digital CBS stations that are already broadcasting it, but this (if true) doesn't seem to be relevant to the 3410a, since there is no indication that its TVGOS firmware gets updated from the broadcast data. (By the way, in that thread, it is also claimed that that someone from Sony has said that their unit will automatically handle the transition, but I'm pretty sure, based on following this thread that LG reps have made no comparable statement about this OR about whether the v7 data will be broadcast by CBS stations. (I really think they owe us a statement about the LATTER!!!)

Finally, I googled the RCA unit referred to in the Gemstar person's statement, and it led me to a whole list of items, the first of which was an avs thread specifically about this unit, but - even better - to the fact that there are couple of LONG threads (ATSC converter box comparisons (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12860404#post12860404) and converter boxes sold in the major stores (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13181369#post13181369)) about any of the converter units that people want to talk about...not that they are talking specifically about the TVGOS issue, but after I post this I intend to go back and search on those llong threads...

cheers - Tony

PS I'm happy to be corrected on anything I've said above, and also on something I - along with others here - have also said, namely, that we won't really know how the 3410a responds to the transition until AFTER the analog stations are gone, and people are actually trying the converter boxes IN THE ABSENCE of those signals.

As for me, I will wait and see what works after the conversion to digital. Even if I lose the Program listings, I suspect the box will be able to scan for digital stations and I will be able to set my 3 units to record manually. Am I missing something that will prevent this?

Having said that I must say that picturewise my 3410A's deliver the best picture of any of my playback systems.

Hi MrHifi,
I too am using a 96" diagonal screen and other than 1080P Blu-Ray the 3410a produces a better picture than anything I have.

Sincerely,
Leg One

As for me, I will wait and see what works after the conversion to digital. Even if I lose the Program listings, I suspect the box will be able to scan for digital stations and I will be able to set my 3 units to record manually. Am I missing something that will prevent this?

no, I think it'll still work as a receiver and a manual recorder...actually, I have to check to see if you can set a recurrent (i.e., weekly recording for the same program) - probably not, which would significantly reduce its utility for my household, that and the fact that the recording would not have any identification...our units, including the 3410a, tend to run with the hard drives about two thirds full, and that would be a real problem if recordings are not identified...I would probably take it back to Circuit City and ask for an equivalent unit or my money back, since it's still on warranty...

As for me, I will wait and see what works after the conversion to digital. Even if I lose the Program listings, I suspect the box will be able to scan for digital stations and I will be able to set my 3 units to record manually. Am I missing something that will prevent this?Shouldn't have a problem as long as you can set the clock manually.

no, I think it'll still work as a receiver and a manual recorder...actually, I have to check to see if you can set a recurrent (i.e., weekly recording for the same program) - probably not, which would significantly reduce its utility for my household, that and the fact that the recording would not have any identification...our units, including the 3410a, tend to run with the hard drives about two thirds full, and that would be a real problem if recordings are not identified...I would probably take it back to Circuit City and ask for an equivalent unit or my money back, since it's still on warranty...

If you know the channel and the time the program airs (assuming it airs at the same time each week), manual weekly recording is not a problem. I've been recording a weekly show on PBS for the past 2 years this way, as my Guide listings come and go at random. The unit records the digital cable version of WPBT's HD feed with no problem.

Art-
Thanks for the kind words. I decided to use the 3410A one more time last night and you're right ... the PQ is exceptional.

It is a shame that Technology moved away from these boxes. LG nearly got it right with the 3410A, and I bet their follow-up would have been great. It is funny how the things like the 3410A that are good and useful for the consumer rarely last, while other things just take off. Don't get me started, but how in the world did LCD TVs dominate the market?

Hyrax,

The key is how cheap it is to manufacture and deliver the product. LCD's are built on large production lines with low per unit costs. They are cheap to deliver because the boxes pack well in large containers. Lastly, they are easy to handle by the home consumer. One person can install them and what comes out of the box looks good.

Good Luck my friend.

Hyrax,

The key is how cheap it is to manufacture and deliver the product. LCD's are built on large production lines with low per unit costs. They are cheap to deliver because the boxes pack well in large containers. Lastly, they are easy to handle by the home consumer. One person can install them and what comes out of the box looks good.

Good Luck my friend.
hey art, i remember you from the cband side how are things going?

rviele,

It is good to finnd old chat buddies frequenting the interesting discussions. I still have the 922/HDD200 and Praclipse set up but I rarely use them for anything. Almost all other sources provide better PQ. Is your satellite system still up?

I have it on good authority that the converter box that has been tested and found fully operational with V7 TVG, and supports VBI

Is

Echostar TR-40

It is not scheduled to hit shelves until mid June or so.

Sling Media/TR-40:

Says "in stock May 21": http://www.nulime.com/Digital-Analog-TV-Converter/p284135.

On pre-order now, but not taking coupons until in stock the week of June 16: http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display8.asp?PROD=DTVPAL-TR40&xzoom=Large#xview.

Jan,

I am not sure why I would need the converter box. I receive Host Channel 22 through the cable. Are you saying that because analog 22 will no longer be active, the cable will no longer provide the v7 TVGOS data? Or are you saying the converter will be necessary if you watch only OTA?

Jan...GREAT to hear

but

maybe some clarification?

(by the way, my understanding is that because ALL the CECBs MUST pass the closed caption info now contained in the vbi, they must ALL pass the the TVGOS data as well...)

Did your good authority know HOW it was tested and WHETHER it was from an ACTUAL digital broadcast station that carried the TVGOS data, and - in particular - carried the v7 data? This would be GREAT because it would answer the question about whether the CBS stations are actually going to CARRY the v7 TVGOS data!

ALSO did they have a setup that excluded the possibility that the v7 data was actually coming from an analog station?without their being aware of it??? (I ask this because some of the experiments reported in the Sony 250/500 thread might be tricked in this way, and it's hard for an outside reader of the posts to know for sure...)

I realize you may not be able to answer these questions, but...just hoping...

...glad to hear the TR-40 has been tested by someone, because that would mean the box ACTUALLY EXISTS, even if it isn't yet available...

Rammi - thanks for the info on availability, even though that kind of claim by sellers often has to be taken with a BIG grain of salt...But I would love it to be true, because then maybe I could get one while my coupon is still valid!

One problem with these devices might be their auto power-down feature; I don't think I'd get one unless you could turn this feature off, given the night-time data downloads...

Cheers - Tony

rviele,

It is good to finnd old chat buddies frequenting the interesting discussions. I still have the 922/HDD200 and Praclipse set up but I rarely use them for anything. Almost all other sources provide better PQ. Is your satellite system still up?
got my man out a month ago to do a master reset for w5. most of the time we watch hgtv on c3. i've always been pleased with the national feed of pbs up on t6. otherwise i usually stay ota with my trusty 3410. oh and couldn't resist so i went out an bought a digitial stream for my bedroom tv. still hanging in there with nps. please keep in touch with me it is nice to talk with you.

Tony... The folks who gave me the info are from TVG, the folks who send the TVG data we use.

The question I asked them was: "OK Guys, which box am I going to want to use with my LG 3410 DVR that uses TVG V7 data?"

They called me back later and said "Echostar TR-40 was tested and worked fine".

That's all I needed to hear!

How it's going to be implemented?? I really don't know yet, but I have these senerios:

1. TEST SENERIO: Temporairly disconnect cable off one DVR and replace with TR-40. Tell this one DVR to scan for TVG Data... (this after demodulating CH4 video and checking for TVG on Line 15 of each field).

2. If Analog Cable channels remain: (I presently notch out CH4 out of cable feed, and replace it with cablebox video on channel 4, so all rooms of house can see cablebox feed) TR-40 outputs RF on Channel 4, I could then replace the CH 4 feed that I'm inserting into cable for 'rest of house' with TR-40's channel 4.. One TR-40 box then feeds all DVR's. Once this works, I could then add cablebox video onto another un-used RF channel.

3. If Analog Cable Goes away.... Feed CH 4 RF from TR-40 to all DVR's, and rescan each for TVG host channel on Channel 4.

Jan...if the TR-40 works well AND as advertised, I'll get one and anticipate using it simply by sticking it into the coax line leading to my 3410a.

Supposedly it has analog pass-through, which presumably means digital pass-through, too (since they are in the same frequency range more or less) AND - according to Wikipedia - all cecbs must have a defeatable auto power down.

So, if I'm interpreting this stuff correctly, the tr-40 yields an output with everything from the antenna PLUS the converted TVGOS-carrying signal from the CBS station, which would be the complete package we need...

putting it in front of the 3410a NOW (i.e., before the analog shuitdown), we should see everything we now see (except for any stations with low signals - since the cecb presumably reduces what comes through somewhat, perhaps as much as 3 db) PLUS a converted version of the channel the tr-40 is set to...

of course, we won't know if everything really works until the actual analog shutdown..

(if the pass-through doesn't work as I'm interpreting it, then I will simply split the antenna signal, putting the cecb into one branch, and then rejoining the branches and sending THAT combined signal to the 3410a, which should produce what I want. In this case, though, I would probably not want a unit with the analog pass-through, since it might confuse things in the rejoined output and maybe reduce power unnecessarily...)

I'm also hearing rumours that LG is no longer repairing our DVR's....

So I asked a couple LG people if I could get all their bad units, that we could use for spare parts....

Haven't heard an answer yet, though....

so Jan...are you sure you don't want to start a regular little repair service?

I guess the real question for me is, will I be able to use the 3 3410A's at all without the TVGOS data. I have 4 other machines that generate this information. I plan to use the 3410A'ss as overflow recorders when the MOT 3416's 4 recording slots are full in any given time period or if they fill up. I have a 300GB drive in one LG and the original 120's in the other 2. Opinion on whether they will work? I know we covered this before but i was wondering whether in light of new info. others might have new facts.

Also, even though I did all the recommendations except for Jan's cap change, miinecontinue to require a daily reboot just to keep them functional. Otherwise, they freeze up and will not record in the timeslot.

What I am trying to do is see if they'll free up the dead boards/systems they have (if not already in shredder) as a supply of parts...... I haven't heard back from them, yet, though I approached via multiple "ways".

No, I'm not planning on being a service center.... But I will do what I can....

What I would ask is that if anyone has a machine that they no longer want, becuase it is broke, or whatever.... (I've been given one already) I could then use it for parts to help others....

At present, I have 6 units at home: 3 are in use, 1 is waiting to be picked up, and of the remaining two, I swapped parts to get one working a couple days ago. Presently I'm using this unit as a test bed to determine what remaining parts I have from the two units are 'viable' spares, that could be used by others...

I'm hoping that in a few weeks I'll be able to post a list of 'available' spare parts, depending on my success rate with repairing stuff in this unit.

After 2 plus years of solid service, the dreaded "DVR is initializing" message showed up today. No amount of unplugging or power cycling has been able to reset it. I want to replace the drive with a Seagate DB35 160GB Drive. The currently available 7200rpm PATA Series 3 drives are selling for around $60, which is good. However, I see that they have integrated DRM protection (DriveTrust). Does anyone know if these drives work in the 3410?

Talked with one of my 'contacts' regarding old bad boards/units. He hasn't heard anything yet...

I have confirmed that the "DVR is Initializing" message and lack of any DVR functions or drive status indicator on the front panel is due to hard drive failure. When I opened the case after the unit had been powered off for over 10 minutes, the drive was still really hot. This was unexpected since I keep the 3410 on an open shelf with adequate ventilation. I wanted to test the DVR to make sure it was the drive causing the problem, so I installed an old Seagate 5400rpm 80GB computer drive and powered the 3410 up. It immediately initialized the drive and was ready to record. The drive seems to produce some occasional dropouts on the recording but otherwise works OK. I assume this is because it's a computer drive, or maybe it's just too old and slow. Anyway, I ordered a new 160GB Seagate DB35 Series 3 DVR drive. I'll post the results as soon as I see how it works out.

My recording problems stem from Comcast's stupid decision to 2 and 3 pack channels to save bandwidth, despite being in a recently upgraded area with fiber op to the pole (pole, huh huh huh). The local Fox, CBS and an analog Spanish subchannel with Fox do not allow me to record House. I'll get the first 20 minutes or so, then nothing, even though the display indicates that things are being recorded for the whole hour. :mad::mad:!!!

I've had my 3410 about 2.5 years, can I expect an HD failure soon like veets? If so, then Jan I may have a parts donor for you. ;)

Why not use an aerial and see if you can pick up FOX that way?

juancmjr: Hard drive failures don't follow any rhyme nor reason. I'm still running an old SCSI Brick of a drive (6" x 8" x 10" it is physically HUGE) on an old W98 computer, and I'll bet that drive is 14 years old!!! and it still works fine!!!
Unless it happens, don't dwell on it! Replacements can be had cheaply! :)!

Powerful, where I live isn't the greatest area for TV reception, about 55 miles and several valleys north of San Francisco, where the broadcast towers are located. I'm almost at the limit of the range for HD signals. Antennaweb doesn't list any HD channels as available in my area either so OTA is out of the question. Otherwise I wouldn't put up with HD lite through Comcast. Besides my economic stimulus check has been spent on bills already so no money for an antenna setup ;).

It works! :) The new drive is a 160GB Seagate DB35 series 3 drive (ST3160215ACE). This drive is made specifically for DVRs. The rotational speed is 7200 rpm. It's about half the thickness of the original Seagate and seems to run cooler. I haven't seen any dropouts or other problems so far. The extra 40 GB of space is nice to have too. The drive was under $60 shipped.

This was a really easy installation so don't sweat it if you ever need to replace yours. Remove the cover of the 3410, unplug the power and IDE cables from the old drive, unscrew the drive bracket and remove the drive, move the jumper selector on the new drive to "master" (1st set of pins on the left), plug in the cables, put everything back together and you are done. Less than 15 minutes start to finish. The drive will automatically initialize when you power the unit up. Just to be on the safe side, I also used the menu to format the drive, but that may not be necessary.

Here is the Seagate DB35 spec page:

http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/consumer_electronics/db35_series/db35_series_7200.3/

veets,

Congratulations! Many of us upgraded to the 300GB Maxtor drives. They were quite a bit more expensive.

I post this for others who may want this information.

Symptom: Power supply prevents front panel from working at all. Follows this power supply. Voltages on 5 pin connector are more negative than a working supply. Main Power supplies all measure correctly.

Individual Components on the front panel area of power supply measure correctly compared to a working supply.

Found a cracked trace on the Power supply trace side, disconnecting Pin 18 of transformer from circuitry. Resistor lead soldered across PCB trace fixed it.

Offer to others....

I have a Motherboard that is Very Low Level Dead. On Powerup, the Power PC chip Sys Clock output is disabled. All Reset circuitry appears normal.
It's broke too far for me to fix.

It is presenly available for parts removal (All parts presently on board) should someone need it, or, if someone wants to take a crack at it... Holler... (System Board and chassis only, no TVG, Power Supply, front panel or Drive.)

Because of this, I now have a spare (modified with my changes) Power Supply, TVG board, Front Panel, and drive, and remote control.

Had an interesting discussion on the phone with one of our users... and he asked me how I use one remote on multiple machines successfully....

I did have my teething pains with this...

I tried antenuating the receiver on the front panel, and that was a disaster.. So I tried a different approach... A rubber plumbing washer, about 1/2" deep, and a bit wider, with a 3/16" hole in it... and placed it on the front of the remote with tape... When I was happy with it's operation, I super-glued it in place!!! See attached picture!!!

Ugh! No listings for about a week...I've been trying the usual things, mostly unplugging my unit for varying amounts of time, but no joy...

Now I'm wondering if our local PBS station is goofing up...I know they're changing their whole channel setup at the end of June - maybe they're starting by not bothering with TVGOS...

My Sony 250 is still getting the v8 TVGOS...of course, that may not prove anything, because - according to the thread on that unit - it appears to be able to pick the v8 data from a digital station (in case CBS has started broadcasting the data in our area).

All speculation...my unit is probably just having a longer hiccup than usual. It has recovered to the point where I appear to be able to set manual recordings...since the main broadcast season is drawing to an end, there are fewer things we want to record, so I should be able to get by...

I think, however, that I'll post something on the San Francisco/OTA thread to see if anybody knows anything...

Now I'm wondering if our local PBS station is goofing up...I know they're changing their whole channel setup at the end of June - maybe they're starting by not bothering with TVGOS...

You get the same feed from KQED as me so it's definitely them. I've gotten 'No Listing' in the guide past few days. No Guide light on as I write this.

You get the same feed from KQED as me so it's definitely them. I've gotten 'No Listing' in the guide past few days. No Guide light on as I write this.

thanks! That's a relief!

You get the same feed from KQED as me so it's definitely them. I've gotten 'No Listing' in the guide past few days. No Guide light on as I write this.

glad to say, listings finally began to appear again!

I have listings for some channels. Other just say 'No Listing.' :confused:

Of The three most stabilizing changes I've made to the 3410, I can only take credit for one of them... And only partial credit, at that:

1. The most stabilizing change goes to albertso, for his information on locking the 3410a host channel.
2. Second, to John T. for his suggestion on using a UPS on the 3410.

3. Third, my improvement on the power supply caps.

The units have never been so solid as the past few months, after implementing albertso's host channel lock!

Art-
Don't get me started, but how in the world did LCD TVs dominate the market?

Hi Hyrax,
So what's wrong with LCD TV's?

PC's made LCD what it is today. The logical progression from PC's was to the home TV viewing market.

Sincerely,
Leg One

I'll take DLP.

Problem with LCD's is MFG's take a display that is neither 720P or 1080i compatable and develope a transcoder to force feed 720P & 1080i into it... And you get to live with the resulting artifacts....... as if it was part of the MPEG stream.... And it isn't...

Unfortunately some of us can't stand single-chip DLP rainbow artifacts. So it's either expensive plasma or cheaper LCDs.

I have listings for some channels. Other just say 'No Listing.' :confused:

so it turns out that I got good listings for Friday, then nothing on Saturday, and today (Sunday), I got more listings, but something complicated is wrong with some of them - I figure the broadcast TVGOS (v7) is still screwing up somehow, but I'm hoping it gets straightened out soon - not that it matters in the near term, since there aren't any new programs among the ones I record on this unit.

(There are still some remaining on the channels we record on our Sony 250, but the v8 listings for that haven't had any problem...)

Hi Jan, et al,

First, glad the "lock" works for you. My unit has been way more stable also since using that code.

Second, I am glad to report that I have not had a loss of guide info, an AV channel error or a lockup since checking the signal strength on my PBS station and maximizing it. I am beginning to think that the poor signal strength was 90% of my problem on the OTA listings.

Now, if I could only figure out a SIMPLE way to get any listings when in cable mode. As I mentioned, and you confirmed, COMCAST is removing the guide data from the VBI. I can not find a Host Channel for my cable system. I watch the Feb 2009 comments, hoping that some solution will be forced by that transition.

Thanks for all the info and the pat on the head.

Well, I'm sad to say I'm selling my 3410a. I just never use it anymore. I do all my recording with my computer now so it just sits. If interested, it is on ebay.

ok...the link isn't working. It is item #320256367556 if curious.

Josh

Josh,
Sorry to see you go.

Now, if I could only figure out a SIMPLE way to get any listings when in cable mode. As I mentioned, and you confirmed, COMCAST is removing the guide data from the VBI. I can not find a Host Channel for my cable system. I watch the Feb 2009 comments, hoping that some solution will be forced by that transition.Someone in another thread with the same problem got ahold of an engineer at the local host channel, and they're supposedly dealing with (pressing) the cableco about the problem (Comcast, I think). I guess the poster and the station engineer have been keeping in regular contact about the progress over email. So I would say to just try and talk to someone at the host station like that poster did (I'd call PBS first).

It doesn't sound like Comcast is going out of their way to replace it without being bugged enough, and unfortunately I don't think that attitude's going to change because of Feb '09 in any way.

Comcast here is blocking all lines up to 21 on their Box outputs, but VBI data appears to be still being passed on analog channels (we still have analog cable being passed by Comcastg. I believe Chicago Comcast has eliminated analog cable channels.

I called Comcast and asked why they were stipping VBI information, and they offered to rent me a DVR.

P.S. Josh, an associate at work is looking for a 2nd 3410a... I'll pass him the info.

Hi Jan,

I have no way of telling if COMCAST is passing VBI data on the analog channels. Here in Montgomery County, MD, COMCAST uses ADR (Analog/Digital Replacement) so that if I tune to a channel in the analog range, digital version is substituted. The digital versions are passed using QAM subchannels. I had a complete list, when I could see them, but now they are all encrypted. Makes for great signal quality on "box" TV's, but makes the channel a completely different source at the box. It behaves like a digital channel would.

The idea that Ram had, to call the source station, is a good one. I'm away the rest of the week, but will try in the near future.

Thanks for the ever-welcome help,

Just wondering if anyone found the Echostar TR 40 for sale anywhere yet...
I just received my coupons, and are good to early August....
Would like to do some tests with one 3410a DVR... and see how it reacts to it....

If anyone finds a place that has them, please post.... This will give me something to do in my spare time...... (yeah, Right!!)

Jr.com shows TR-40 available for pre-order. Also has a box to submit your email to be notified when they become available.

there's a thread on the tr-40, now called the Dish DTVPal...apparently, sellers are claiming it will be available in the second part of June,which is vaguely consistent with the latest thing that Dish has said...there's also a lot of discussion about whether it will have a PSIP-based EPG, or one using the TV Guide system, as well as about other features......

Jan J - Check into that thread in the CECB tuner forum occasionally - they're really keeping on top of it. Quite a few people there have pre-ordered it already. You were smart to have waited to order your coupons - wish I would've been, too. I've got 'till June 27, and I'm hoping the DTVPal will be available by then. There's no way I'm going to pre-order it, though - too many people have gotten burned on doing that over there it seems.

The reason why I'm so quiet, is two-fold:

1. I have no units to work on... and more importantly....
2. DLP Died. (it's Electrical Engine is out being Re-capped! No Spare Parts from Mitsubishi!!) Once they get that fixed and it works on a test fixture there, they'll re-install it and check out lamp power supply and Light Engine....

Sucks to be us right now!!! Hopfully it will return in 3-4 weeks!!!

Originally Posted by juancmjr
You get the same feed from KQED as me so it's definitely them. I've gotten 'No Listing' in the guide past few days. No Guide light on as I write this.

so it turns out that I got good listings for Friday, then nothing on Saturday, and today (Sunday), I got more listings, but something complicated is wrong with some of them - I figure the broadcast TVGOS (v7) is still screwing up somehow, but I'm hoping it gets straightened out soon - not that it matters in the near term, since there aren't any new programs among the ones I record on this unit.

(There are still some remaining on the channels we record on our Sony 250, but the v8 listings for that haven't had any problem...)

Hi, juancmjr: well, once again I am entirely without listings...for the last 10 days or more.

So once again, I wonder whether it's PBS-KQED/channel 9 messing up in preparation for their reorganizing their channel lineup on June 30!

Monday, I'll try to send their customer relations person an email about this - I'd really like to know.

(On the other hand, I am still getting the TVGOS v8 data on my Sony 250...)

The reason why I'm so quiet, is two-fold:

1. I have no units to work on... and more importantly....
2. DLP Died. (it's Electrical Engine is out being Re-capped! No Spare Parts from Mitsubishi!!) Once they get that fixed and it works on a test fixture there, they'll re-install it and check out lamp power supply and Light Engine....

Sucks to be us right now!!! Hopfully it will return in 3-4 weeks!!!

Jan - you might want to look at the thread on the DTVPal/former TR-40...someone finally got some hard info on it...i.e., dropped by Sling (his former workplace) and got some screenshots, a picture of the remote, and the box the unit comes in...so looks like it's finally real, even if it isn't yet at any store or on-line seller. A shot of the EPG is: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14030424#post14030424

I may place an order for one on-line just to make sure I get one before my card expires...

Hi, juancmjr: well, once again I am entirely without listings...for the last 10 days or more.

So once again, I wonder whether it's PBS-KQED/channel 9 messing up in preparation for their reorganizing their channel lineup on June 30!

Monday, I'll try to send their customer relations person an email about this - I'd really like to know.

(On the other hand, I am still getting the TVGOS v8 data on my Sony 250...)

Same here. 'No Listing' for all channels. I'll be waiting to see whether it's worth it or not to get a digital transition cable box. Otherwise it's major use will be to convert my DVHS signal from 1394 to DVI/optical out. (just need to get more tapes :D)

I sent an email to the contact I had to confirm/verify what the name of the best converter box for use in decoding TVG V7 data would be, should it have changed....

(Sitting in front of a BLACK DLP Screen :(! )

If the TR-40 comes to market and in fact passes the TVG V7 data our 3410a's require I would get a coupon and buy it. But if the TR-50 comes to market and is able to do the same, I would consider buying it sans coupon and then have 2 OTA DVR's. We will be stuck with a new extra box either way.

@ Jan,
Lots of deals this week on new 1080p flat panels. :)

Hello Folks,

After months of seeking this unit, I found one and plan to use it's firewire inputs via a Motorola DCT6200 cablebox (with HDTV subscription) can you give me some pointers on how to make sure it functions properly with the least amount of headaches that have been detailed in this thread. I already have a UPS/regulated power supply.

Thanks a bunch

I would be very surprised if the Firewire connection works at all with anything but the prescribed Mits HD DVR.

I would be very surprised if the Firewire connection works at all with anything but the prescribed Mits HD DVR.

So how do you record HD cable programs using this unit?

I currently use DVHS and it is a little cumbersome since the cable box goes to a Marantz DVHS (for decoding) then a Mitsubishi DVHS (all by firewire) then the playback goes from Mitsubishi DVHS to Marantz DVHS (by firewire) then to the AudioVideoReceiver (by component output and digital audio) then to TV. Recording is controlled by a Radio Shack VCR programmable controller.

I did some testing with the IR control and the DCT6200 cablebox, and it did channel change correctly. However, once you enable Cablebox, it assumes you are getting TVG Data off one of the composite inputs (forgot which), and the TVG data (on Field 1 & 2 line 15) is STRIPPED from the DCT6200, which prevents TVG from working -- at all.

I did look deeper into schemos, and found the input that DCT6200 feed went to two different circuit paths: Feed to be recorded, and a secondary feed to TVG Detection circuitry. I then made a WAG (wild ass guess) that by using a VHS deck set to TVG Data Channel, and feeding this video into the OTHER Composite input, and then disconnecting the coupling cap for TVG circuit, and re-wiring it to the other input, you could then get TVG Data off the un-used composite input, and the video from DCT6200 feed.
I never actually tried it, because it was too much of a hassle, but it appears it would work.

So how do you record HD cable programs using this unit?

I currently use DVHS and it is a little cumbersome since the cable box goes to a Marantz DVHS (for decoding) then a Mitsubishi DVHS (all by firewire) then the playback goes from Mitsubishi DVHS to Marantz DVHS (by firewire) then to the AudioVideoReceiver (by component output and digital audio) then to TV. Recording is controlled by a Radio Shack VCR programmable controller.

I hardly use my 3410A's any more. I have two MOT 3416's that work beautifully. I never archive anything. The 160GB HD of the MOT's provide plenty of storage space. I can record 4 programs at a time in HD and watch one previously recorded off each machine.

I would be very surprised if the Firewire connection works at all with anything but the prescribed Mits HD DVR.

I assume you're talking about the Motorola unit...the 3410a works with the JVC 30k and (I think it's number is the) 40k. I occasionally archive something to the 30k...mainly an opera or ballet that you wouldn't be able to get anywhere else in HD...

You assume correctly. I never saved recordings because at the time I used my C Band 4DTV/HDD200 system and it was too expensive to have the HDD200 modified to incluse a Firewire connection.. Some used this setup to record to the LG LST-3410A.

So how do you record HD cable programs using this unit?

I currently use DVHS and it is a little cumbersome since the cable box goes to a Marantz DVHS (for decoding) then a Mitsubishi DVHS (all by firewire) then the playback goes from Mitsubishi DVHS to Marantz DVHS (by firewire) then to the AudioVideoReceiver (by component output and digital audio) then to TV. Recording is controlled by a Radio Shack VCR programmable controller.

foamfan,

HD recordings are done through coax cable from outside. Use a splitter. Do the channel scan to see which HD channels are available in your area. Sorry, no HBO/Cinemax, Discovery HD, SciFi HD or anything cool, just the major networks, PBS and your local independents. Pare down what you don't watch/want via the Channel Edit and you should be good to go.

You can skip your DVHS>DVHS>TV step by connecting your 3410a to your Mitsubishi DVHS via Firewire and using the 3410's component and optical outs to your AV receiver (still a bit cumbersome I'm sure). You can also connect just the Mitsu DVHS directly to your cable box via Firewire. Just remember to disconnect the cable box when you want to watch your Mitsu DVHS recordings because the 3410 doesn't allow daisy chaining Firewire devices.

Which Mitsu DVHS do you have? the 1100 or the 2000U? I have the 2000U. I guess Mitsubishi assumed that people would also buy a Mitsu television which has Firewire inputs and an optical out to use those DVHS VCRs with.

Try not to have fun! :D

Thanks for the replies.

I actually have a Marantz DVHS which is a badge engineered JVC 40K and a Mitsubishi 2000u which are daisy chained to the cable box (setting these things up is complicated as hell) but none of them can be controlled by the cable box for recording. I was kinda hoping that the cable box can control the LG for recording via firewire :(

juancmjr, can the Mitsubishi record and playback HD?
I thought that it did not have the necessary encoder/decoders that's why another DVHS (Marantz/JVC) is needed to perform these functions. I have never been able to record HD programs from box to the Mitsubishi.
The audio outputs that I use are all optical with great results.

juancmjr, can the Mitsubishi record and playback HD?
I thought that it did not have the necessary encoder/decoders that's why another DVHS (Marantz/JVC) is needed to perform these functions. I have never been able to record HD programs from box to the Mitsubishi.
The audio outputs that I use are all optical with great results.

Yes it can. It doesn't have the necessary video outs like the JVC or Marantz units but that's where the 3410a comes in. The 3410 will control the Mitsu via Firewire. I've also been able to record HD programs on DVD (not in HD) in their OAR via S-video.

I record HD with Firewire from Moto DCT6200 cable box using a 6>4 pin cable to Mitsu DVHS. Works great. Hopefully you're using DVHS tapes although, I've read that somehow one can modify SVHS tapes to use them as DVHS because they are in essence the same tape formulation, but I don't remember where.

Yes it can. It doesn't have the necessary video outs like the JVC or Marantz units but that's where the 3410a comes in. The 3410 will control the Mitsu via Firewire. I've also been able to record HD programs on DVD (not in HD) in their OAR via S-video.

I record HD with Firewire from Moto DCT6200 cable box using a 6>4 pin cable to Mitsu DVHS. Works great. Hopefully you're using DVHS tapes although, I've read that somehow one can modify SVHS tapes to use them as DVHS because they are in essence the same tape formulation, but I don't remember where.

The Mitsubishi is an awesome DVHS but it's lack of component output is a real downer :(

How do you use your Mitsu to record HD and playback via 3410A?
Do you have to playback the Mitsu and then record that playback on the HDD of the 3410A then playback the 3410A to TV? or do you just use the 3410A to output the video of the Mitsu via the 3410A's component output?

I ordered a bunch of cable today from Monoprice and got a 6>4 firewire just to see if the 6200 can control the 3410A for recording (wild shot to the moon) HD programs which is what I really want to do.

Using SVHS tapes as DVHS can be accomplished by drilling a hole somewhere in the case of the SVHS tape so that the DVHS player will sense it is a DVHS tape. I dont really do this since DVHS tape is of such great quality that I am yet to experience degradation of playback even with dozens of re-recording. I bought a box of JVC DVHS tapes when I got the Marantz and Mitsubishi and it seems that the darn things last forever :)

How do you use your Mitsu to record HD and playback via 3410A?
Do you have to playback the Mitsu and then record that playback on the HDD of the 3410A then playback the 3410A to TV? or do you just use the 3410A to output the video of the Mitsu via the 3410A's component output?


You don't have to record to the 3410a's hard drive. You can just play from the Mitsubishi dVHS deck through the 3410a, using the 3410a's component outputs.

If you want to use the Moto box with the Mits to timer record just ebay/google a Radio Shack VCR Programmer, you'll be thanking me soon.

You don't have to record to the 3410a's hard drive. You can just play from the Mitsubishi dVHS deck through the 3410a, using the 3410a's component outputs.

Thanks for that information.

Thoughts:
Assuming I cannot make my Mot box control the LG for recording and I only really watch HDTV when I get back in the evening.
What does the 3410A give me other than a more convenient recording interface with TV guide (which is really slick) on the non-premium HDTV channels (my 2 DVHS units can do this task too using their timers, VCR+ and record HDTV premium channels using the Radio Shack VCR programmer even though it's pretty cumbersome)?

Thanks

If you want to use the Moto box with the Mits to timer record just ebay/google a Radio Shack VCR Programmer, you'll be thanking me soon.

I'll thank you now for the thought. I have 4 of these darn things now but still looking for a more elegant solution that's why I got the 3410A.

You gotta admit that programming the cable box for recording and then programming the RS programmer and making sure you hit "lock" button twice for it to activate the Mitsu when you are done is more than a little inconvenient :) I am used to it by now but it drives me bonkers; NOBODY in my whole family can operate these things. It is like disarming explosives or simultaneously playing the drums, harmonica, keyboard, guitar, castanets on your feet and attaching an accordion on your rear end all at the same time :eek: :D:D:D

discovery?
While checking the unit if the TV guide was populated, I noticed that there were certain channels which were "off", but if you manually put in a premium HDTV channel...it was populated by this premium HDTV channel and actually plays and is shown on the TV. I guess time will tell if the guide/program information on this channel will eventually show-up :)

Using SVHS tapes as DVHS can be accomplished by drilling a hole somewhere in the case of the SVHS tape so that the DVHS player will sense it is a DVHS tape.The Mits 2000U has a light/button combination marked D-VHS to the left of the tape slot. It lights green for a D-VHS tape and is out when you insert an S-VHS tape. But you can then push the button to light it and the recorder treats the tape like D-VHS.

The Mits is like two separate VCRs: S-VHS with analog tuner and composite/S-Video I/O, and D-VHS with no tuner and Firewire I/O only. The LG makes a handy front end for the D-VHS part. Assuming no copy-protection issues, shows on D-VHS can be played directly on the LG or recorded to its HDD, and shows on the LG's HDD can be copied to D-VHS. I think it should also be able to record directly from the LG's tuner to D-VHS but I've never gotten that to work. It goes through the motions but just records black.

Various programs on a PC can move shows to and from the Mits, which is the only way I've found to copy shows from the LG to a PC.

Mainly it's a convenient DVR, as you noted. The major benefit for me is that I can time shift something and then archive it if I decide I like it. It saves a lot of time on the VCR's heads. Also, it's easy to edit out commercials before archiving. The reverse also works well.

If you have something on DVHS tape and for whatever reason you would want to have it somewhere really convenient, you can copy from the DVHS to the hard drive in the 3410a so you can get to it much easier. For instance, I copied a football game I'm particularly fond of watching from DVHS tape to the 3410a. The 3410a allows me to jump to the exact series I want to start watching. If I were watching tape, I would have to find the tape and put it in the VCR. Then I would have to watch everything in order unless I am willing to stress the heads and tape more.

Another benefit is that it's a really good upscaler for standard def sources. What I mean by that is that you can feed from a source via composite or s-video and it will look pretty good once it hits your screen. I don't know if it would be better than the TV's upscaler, though.

Thanks for that information.

Thoughts:
Assuming I cannot make my Mot box control the LG for recording and I only really watch HDTV when I get back in the evening.
What does the 3410A give me other than a more convenient recording interface with TV guide (which is really slick) on the non-premium HDTV channels (my 2 DVHS units can do this task too using their timers, VCR+ and record HDTV premium channels using the Radio Shack VCR programmer even though it's pretty cumbersome)?

Thanks

For those interested in this device, there's now an actual review:

http://www.satelliteguys.us/dish-network-forum/138485-first-look-dish-networks-dtvpal-digital-converter.html

I believe the reviewer and those in the thread are misinterpreting what the screen about TV Guide means...cf. my comment in the DTVPal thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14062596#post14062596

Apparently, according to pages from the users manual at the bottom of the review above (below the screenshots), the DTVPal supplies the nightly listings to the TV Guide-using device via a g-link!!! (not via the converted digital TV signal). I don't know how that works...the pages from the users manual goes on about channel numbers, changing, etc.... Also that the TV Guide device basically treats the DTVPal like a cable box....

I'd be curious about others' interpretation...

ebo, you are right on the light/button switch to treat tapes as DVHS. I have absolutely forgotten about that very convenient feature due to my sole use of DVHS tapes.

wilsonsoohoo, It is indeed a very convenient DVR and it seems to upconvert SD programs well too. I just hope that I can make the Moto box control it for recording via firewire or I have to let it or the Marantz DVHS go since it's use is still pretty limited for my purpose.
In the mean time, I am experimenting with manually programming in HDTV premium channels in unpopulated channel slots and see how that goes :)

Apparently, according to pages from the users manual at the bottom of the review above (below the screenshots), the DTVPal supplies the nightly listings to the TV Guide-using device via a g-link!!! (not via the converted digital TV signal). I don't know how that works...the pages from the users manual goes on about channel numbers, changing, etc.... Also that the TV Guide device basically treats the DTVPal like a cable box....

I'd be curious about others' interpretation...

looking again at the pages from the users manual, I think I misinterpreted which way the g-long works...

does anyone know whether this has any applicability to use with a digital device (like the Sony or the LG-3410a)? Obviously one doesn't want to be using the converted analog from the DVTPal for AV, but It seems to me that the g-link would just be changing the channel on the DTVPal, so it seems like the listings must be going along with the converted channel when the DTVPal in in standby mode or something like that...if so that means it would supply the listings to OUR unit, and one could just ignore the feedback via the g-link...which would seem to confirm the supposition that TVGOS is part of the main output of the DTVPal

make sense?

these units are supposed to available SOMEWHERE next week,, and I'll be there to get one...

my 3410a hasn't been getting listings for weeks, and I'm afraid it's because our local PBS station has stopped sending them (though, my Sony 250 is still getting the v8 listings from the PBS station...which leaves us in an ironic situation, since the word is that the Sony will look at digital station for TVGOS if it can't find it from an analog station)

Apparently, according to pages from the users manual at the bottom of the review above (below the screenshots), the DTVPal supplies the nightly listings to the TV Guide-using device via a g-link!!! (not via the converted digital TV signal). I don't know how that works...the pages from the users manual goes on about channel numbers, changing, etc.... Also that the TV Guide device basically treats the DTVPal like a cable box.It appears that the G-link out that they're referring to in the instructions is actually just the IR blaster control jack. All that's used for is to change the channels on the DTVPal - the guide info is not downloaded to the recorder through it. It's an output, not an input or two-way connection.

The guide info is apparently received through the line input via the antenna (antenna into the DTVPal, and line input out from the DTVPal to the recorder, that is) - and it does appear to convert it, because it says the TVGOS in the recorder will still download guide info.

According to those instructions, and everything else Scott says, if your IR-blastered recorder has the code for a Scientific Atlantic cable box, you will be able to control (change the channels) on the DTVPal for recording from it. But it will only be in SD, of course. The jury's still out on whether or not it will allow you to record from the LG's internal tuner using it's own guide to program through.

thinking about it some more, if the analog output of the converter box has the TVGOS data, which apparently it must for the scheme that's described in the users manual to work, that's all the 3410 needs from the converter, because the TV Guide will therefore have the listings

we'll still need the antenna or other source for the actual programming; since I think NONE of the cecbs are joining the converted analog output to the antenna signal, I'm back to my original scheme of splitting and rejoining in the antenna signal, and it seems like that should work with the DTVPal.

(I would just leave the DTVPal in its standard mode, and ignore the setup it described for setting up feedback with the g-link; this presumes that the conversion inclusive of TVGOS works independently of using the g-link setup...)

....<snip>..........
discovery?
While checking the unit if the TV guide was populated, I noticed that there were certain channels which were "off", but if you manually put in a premium HDTV channel...it was populated by this premium HDTV channel and actually plays and is shown on the TV. I guess time will tell if the guide/program information on this channel will eventually show-up :)

The manually programmed premium HDTV channel is still there but there are no TV Guide listings for it. I still have to manually choose this channel on the TV Guide menu for it to play and I will have to manually change the channel label :(

Is there a way to timer record the 3410A for a future event without using the TV Guide listings, like you can do on VCR's?

I sent an email to the contact I had to confirm/verify what the name of the best converter box for use in decoding TVG V7 data would be, should it have changed....

(Sitting in front of a BLACK DLP Screen :(! )

Echostar TR40 is still preferred for use with conversion of TVG data, per conversation I just had... Now if I can only find one!!!

Is there a way to timer record the 3410A for a future event without using the TV Guide listings, like you can do on VCR's?Certainly. Press the VCR Plus+ button on the remote to schedule either by date/time/channel or by the VCR Plus+ (stupid redundancy) codes in the newspaper listings.

I'm not 100% Certain, and won't till next February, but I believe that the clock data comes from TVG board.

Echostar TR40 is still preferred for use with conversion of TVG data, per conversation I just had... Now if I can only find one!!!

Here (http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=DTVPAL-TR40), and here (http://www.freedtvshop.com/fdtv/converters/dtvpal.php), of course you'll have to wait until Monday (June 16th) ;)

Certainly. Press the VCR Plus+ button on the remote to schedule either by date/time/channel or by the VCR Plus+ (stupid redundancy) codes in the newspaper listings.

Thanks.

Does anyone know if cable TV subscribers using the 3410A will lose the TV guide listings too when we change over this coming February?

Depends on if your cable company will still be passing along the TVGOS on an analog signal or not.

If the SD TV channels are off the air next February, and Comcast wants to rent me one of their DVR's ..... Do you think they will invest in many, many analog channel generators just to connect a competitor's TVG inserters in them?

Somehow, even though I know TVG is hoping this will happen..... I really doubt that it will.

Thanks for the response guys.

I'll check with my cable provider; hopefully somebody knows but I wont be surprised if their eyes suddenly glazed-up.

What kind of hard drive upgrade (reliability of operation being a high priority) have you guys done or recommend?

This is a pretty nice device and I am starting to understand why it has such a strong following despite of some issues and a rather exorbitant used price in the open market. Electronics are usually notorious for depreciation but I think these things actually appreciated :eek:

This is a pretty nice device and I am starting to understand why it has such a strong following despite of some issues and a rather exorbitant used price in the open market. Electronics are usually notorious for depreciation but I think these things actually appreciated :eek:

what's the current value? I doubt it's as much as the original cost, vicinity of $700.

I just noticed I actually got about 4 days of listings overnight last night...I wonder if that's connected with the email I sent Tuesday to the customer relations person at KQED on Tuesday...I got an auto email response saying she wouldn't be in the office that day, but would respond yesterday...maybe getting the listings back up was the response...after their being gone for weeks!

If the SD TV channels are off the air next February, and Comcast wants to rent me one of their DVR's ..... Do you think they will invest in many, many analog channel generators just to connect a competitor's TVG inserters in them?

Somehow, even though I know TVG is hoping this will happen..... I really doubt that it will.It might if Gemstar pays them enough. The logical (therefore unlikely) way would be for the cable company to put the guide on one of their analog channels--the TV Guide channel, maybe. But if they did that it would prevent them from going all-digital, which might mean they'd have to keep an analog set of locals at least until 2012.

If Gemstar doesn't pay them, they'll probably strip the guide off of their turnaround of the local CBS digital station.

Conversation I had with Comcast regarding their boxes stripping up to line 21 (CC):

Me: I need to get that data.
Comcast: You won't..... How'd you like to rent our DVR?

I believe it.

Conversation I had with Comcast regarding their boxes stripping up to line 21 (CC):

Me: I need to get that data.
Comcast: You won't..... How'd you like to rent our DVR?

Dirtbags :)

what's the current value? I doubt it's as much as the original cost, vicinity of $700.

I've recently seen them go for around $400 on eBay. That's about $100 more than I paid for my refurb unit 2+ years ago. That makes the 3410 the only electronic thing I've ever owned that went up in value. Guess I should have bought two. :D

I bought my 2nd for $150, and my 3rd for $200

I've got parts left over, but not enough for a working unit.

(Still looking at a dark DLP, but Hopefully...{It appears the fix for the DLP is simelar to the mod for the 3410a power supply!! }.....)

Isn't it interesting how a Service scheduler can call you and tell you one thing, and you plan your day around it, and then the day of the repair the poor Serviceman who calls, telling you when he's going to be in your area, tells you something else, and now you've changed your schedule because of what the supervisor told you the day before????

GRRR!

I bought my 2nd for $150, and my 3rd for $200

I've got parts left over, but not enough for a working unit.

It's kind of like owning an old Fiat. You need two or three of them just to keep one running. Actually, since I replaced my HD, mine has been working great (sound of knocking on wood).

^^^^ My sister used to own a Fiat and I can vouch for that statement. Not to mention that people would pull parts off your car any time you left it anywhere.

I went to the supermarket once and when I got back to the car all the light switches and control knobs were gone.

The timing chain gouged a hole through the timing chain cover.

When I tried to replace the points (the old points actually had a hole eaten through the center of them they were so old) I couldn't get it to run at all with the new points even though I'm certain that they were gapped and timed properly.

DLP Back among the living...
Many caps replaced on multiple boards.
:D!

Wife informs me that TVG was solid on all 3.

Albertso, I gotta hand it to you!!! That "Lock in" code is worth it's weight in Gold!!!
I've had NO TVG issues since putting that code in!!! :D!

Hi JJ et al,

Glad to be of service. Actually it was a lucky find - and, it works for me too!

The info on this forum is priceless. I trust we will all work together through the digital cutover.

Keep up the good work everybody.

This is to Jan J and Alertso, and anyone else who has done this "lock in" of the the host channel:

Lately - i.e., for the last month and a half - I've been having more trouble than usual getting the TVGOS data...most of the time I haven't been getting it, then there was a period about 3 weeks ago that I got it for a night or two, then last week for about 3 nights (beginning a day or two after I sent an email to my local PBS station (KQED Channel 9). Finally, last night I got data data again....this time after last night, when I couldn't bring up the TV Guide screen, so unplugged the unit for a while, then turned it on to check it was there (set to the wrong time and day, as usually happens when I do this), then left it off overnight, voila! - actual data...but for substantial periods of time, this procedure hasn't given me data, then for some reason it works again...

I had forgotten about what was said earlier about using a "lock in" of the host channel, but your exchange above reminded me of it, and I searched back to get a description of what this was about, here:http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13453320#post13453320

If my problem continues to occur, I may want to do this forced procedure, but I notice that the description I found mentions that to UNDO this you have to do a complete reset, and I am a little concerned about it.

Have others used this lock, and what are their experiences with it? I guess one of the reasons I'm a little leery of it is that I suspect that most of the problem originates with KQED, though the person I talked to there denies it...

any thoughts?

Thanks - Tony

PS I just noticed that that post says that to see the diagnostic screen use a composite or s-video connection...is that true? (I guess it is, or it wouldn't be there, but what's that about?)

As if and when I can find the converter box I'm looking for (Echostar TR40)
I plan on taking one DVR, and hooking the converter to it, and I plan on trying to lock it directly to the new channel (I'll be going from channel 7 to 3 or 4 (what I hope the converter box will be on... CH3 would work the best for me....)

So anyhow, once I chase down the TR40, I plan on testing changing a locked channel from one to another.

As if and when I can find the converter box I'm looking for (Echostar TR40)
I plan on taking one DVR, and hooking the converter to it, and I plan on trying to lock it directly to the new channel (I'll be going from channel 7 to 3 or 4 (what I hope the converter box will be on... CH3 would work the best for me....)

So anyhow, once I chase down the TR40, I plan on testing changing a locked channel from one to another.

Jan, I don't know if you've been following the saga of the Echostar TR-40, which morphed to the Dish DTVPal, which was supposed to become available this week, and now some of the publicity people are saying that there will be 2 different units, although - given the misleading or non-information they have offered over the last 2 months - I don't believe anything they are saying. The DTVPal actually exists, however, and a couple of formal reviews have even been written about is; it has a complicated feedback system (not commented on much by the reviewers, who probably wouldn't understand it anyway) that appears to be primarily for ANALOG devices that use the TV Guide system, but I think (based on the relevant pages in its manual - which is of course not yet available in hard copy to us peons) might work in a simplified arrangement for those of us who have TV Guide devices with ATSC tuners.

In any case, do you know if your contact is high enough in whichever company he is in to know for certain WHICH device (if there actually are 2 different ones) he (or she) is talking about for our purposes?

It would be very interesting to know this...Because most of the contacts at Dish apparently don't know beans, and this thing about there being 2 different devices (rather than the TR-40 morphing into the DTVPal) is new and very puzzling...especially given the substantial TV Guide related features of the DTVPal...

When I have a little while, I'll post here a summary of what the DTVPal appears to be capable of with respect to TVGOS...

Cheers - Tony

The guy mentioned about being out of town for a while... I'll give him a call next week to see what he's heard.... Thanks for this new info...

...and I've switched to Satellite. I know there are no sales here, but I have been a long time reader and used this info religiously when running my unit (sounds like a computer, eh?). Jan...you rock! Good luck to all you, but my time has come. I'll cut a deal for one of you on the forum as I feel like we are family. The best and worst 700 I spent!

http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ele/726985042.html

Email me at badbobbyt AT yahoo.com if my post expires.

PS I just noticed that that post says that to see the diagnostic screen use a composite or s-video connection...is that true? (I guess it is, or it wouldn't be there, but what's that about?)

I think I added that. I have always used the component out from my 3410a. I've never been able to see the diagnostic menu over component out, but I can if I use a composite source. It is a very basic monochrome menu with 10 choices. It can be done, but I don't like navigating in there without being able to see. :)

I think I added that. I have always used the component out from my 3410a. I've never been able to see the diagnostic menu over component out, but I can if I use a composite source. It is a very basic monochrome menu with 10 choices. It can be done, but I don't like navigating in there without being able to see. :)

ok, thanks

anyone else with experience using the code to force or lock in the host channel? thanks for any advice

Hi avnstf,

I would suggest that you verify that the signal is good for the channel that you are locked to. I had a problem a week or so ago, but I found that the antenna had blown a bit in the wind and the signal (analog) was bad. Adjusted the antenna and within 3 days had 8 days of guide info.

Killing the lock is not a bad deal. You will have to do a reset (posted above) and then go through the original setup for your machine to reset. BUT, if if the lock works, why worry?

Hi avnstf,

I would suggest that you verify that the signal is good for the channel that you are locked to. I had a problem a week or so ago, but I found that the antenna had blown a bit in the wind and the signal (analog) was bad. Adjusted the antenna and within 3 days had 8 days of guide info.

Killing the lock is not a bad deal. You will have to do a reset (posted above) and then go through the original setup for your machine to reset. BUT, if if the lock works, why worry?

Hi...maybe I wasn't clear...I haven't applied a lock, but was considering it, and was also looking at the downside in case it didn't do the job.

I don't really know what's been causing my problem lately. I have a Sony 250 that's been getting the guide fine, but that's version 8, so it's not the antenna or anything like that. And even though I'm getting v8, I'm still very suspicious of KQED's reliability...

do you know whether many people have tried the lock, and whether it tends to improve things? (By the way, how did you find out about it? And do you have to use a composite cable to see the menus or whatever to make the change?)

Hi again avnstf,

I feed my (too old to have new interfaces) HDTV with RGB. The RGB output has the menus. I do not know how many folks are using the lock command, but it has certainly helped JJ and me. I found it by reading everything I can find on TVGOS, I think actually on the Sony forum. Getting rid of it is easy - just do a TVGOS reset using the code listed above (653214741) and then do a setup again. It is not dangerous. PS: I have no v8 devices, so I can't speak to their actions.

Hope this helps

avnstf:
I had started to collect parts for a capacitor overhaul when I read about the guide channel lock. I tried it and my DVR is almost back to like-new performance, at least for now. I have two stations on cable that it will lock to: 6 (CBS) and 11 (PBS). When I redo the channel lineup it would lock to 6, I'd choose from about 4 lineups and wait for listings. I might get a few days, then they'd stop. In all cases I found the guide channel had changed to 11. Apparently I can't get good data there. I'd also have other problems not obviously related to the guide, such as very slow reaction to the remote, video would take a long time to appear and audio much longer, or complete lockup except to the OFF button. The only problem I've seen since I applied the lock is that the box may freeze if I allow a playback to stop on its own rather than manually stopping it, a problem it's had for a couple of years now.

One thing I haven't tried (if it works, don't fix it) is to reassign the sole CBS listing to 6-1 instead of 6 to see if it will still use 6 for the guide channel. Without the lock it won't. So I just have to remember to set up all CBS recordings manually or I'll get analog.

Anyone else having guide issues?
I noticed some posts on the sony dhg-hdd250/500 thread mentioning some changes/additions in channel listings.
I have lost all guide info from Wednesday on out in the Minneapolis area.
I am OTA only and have had very few guide issues along the way.
I did have the dreaded invalid channel error, did the unplug/replug, deleted all scheduled recordings, invalid channel disappeared and the time came back, but still No Listing.
I did notice that my host channel is a channel I have never seen listed as carrying the guide before, so I turned that analog station on and we shall see.
Keeping my fingers crossed xx

timmyq

YES, I have listings back.
After adding the "new" host channel to my line-up.
I have a couple emails into the stations that are/were broadcasting listing info, asking their status on sending TVGOS info.
I was worried I would have to be doing some cap replacements :confused:
I do NOT want to lose this unit.

timmyq

I have owned my 3410a for a few years and have hardly ever used it. I think maybe once, twice at most. I also have a Panasonic DVR-E80H which is 1000x more user friendly as I judge. I could never figure out how to program the recorder for the 3410a. Maybe I am daft but I read the instructions numerous times and it never worked. Reception is pretty poor compared to the built in ATSC tuner in my 58" plasma, in fact I can only pull one channel (versus 15+ on plasma).

What am I missing? I am thinking of selling it and buying an ATSC tuner downconverter to work with my E80H.

@AudioJosh,

Strange. Most owners of the 3410a consider its ATSC tuner and output to be superior to most TV's and STB's. You're sure the 15+ channels you mention are OTA and digital, not analog? Something is amok. You could use it and set output to 480i using composite connections to your DVD recorder if you can get it working.

Most owners of the 3410a consider its ATSC tuner and output to be superior to most TV's and STB's.New TV's? No way. :eek: The LG uses a very old (now), 3rd generation chip. The new TV's are already on the 6th, which is greatly improved.

He might actually be in a high multipath environment which the new tuner is overcoming better.

@Ram,

I did not mean to imply new, but you are correct. I do not own the latest generation chip in any device and multipath would never be an issue for me. I was speaking more in terms of relative aged tv's and equipment. It was not so long ago they sold HDTV's without tuners at all. So I amend my statement. Urban folks might well see a big difference. I still think something is amok w/ AudioJosh's situation without knowing more.

hmm...yes, he could be in a miserable multipath environment...I'd actually be curious as to what he receives in the way of analog channels with his 2 different devices, because maybe there's something else wrong

he might also describe what he lives in and what the buildings and other features around him are like, just briefly

with little info, there's little one can really say, aside from the fact that multipath or some other little thing is doing him in...

I also wonder what he was watching television on before he got his newer TV

AudioJosh,
Recording couldn't be easier than with the 3410.
I know it's pretty hard to record when you can't get a signal, but as far as setting up a recording:
Do you have TV Guide listings populating?
Once the guide is populated, it is as simple as finding the show you want to record and pressing the Green button to record.
Let us know if you have any luck.

I am thinking of selling it and buying an ATSC tuner downconverter to work with my E80H.I have an E85H Panny, and I just ordered a Channel Master CM-7000, because the recorder has the (Pioneer cable box) code which will allow it to control (change channels on) the tuner with it's IR blaster.

It's an older, common code, and most older recorders with IR blasters should have it in their code bases.

Cost me a little more than say, the new Zenith, but my older recorders won't control the Zenith box (I tried it). Also, the CM-7000 has s-video out, which none of the current store-available CECB models have.

Or, you could just wait until the DTVPal comes out.

Either way, if I were you, I'd probably keep the 3410A around, as long as it's working. It can also be used with cable, too. Devices like that never grew on trees to begin with, and it's highly probable you'll never see anything quite like them again in the US.

Thanks for the response guys. I knew I was probably just missing something simple.

Anyway, to answer some questions. I live across the river from NYC in "the heights". I live on a cliff above Hoboken and have unrestricted views of NYC. I have a Yagi style antenna from Antennas Direct that I bought years back. Its on my roof and mounted on a Channel Master rotor.

I get analog channels so-so (little fuzzy) and I get most of the digital channels of major network TV (7-1 doesn't always come in). Pulling the coax off the back of my 58" Panasonic plasma (xxx700U) and plugging it into the LG yielded only one channel (7-1 oddly enough). :confused:

My older tv was a 42" Panasonic plasma (3rd gen iirc) which I still have, upstairs in the bedroom with the E80H.

I admit I played with the LG a couple times, didn't get much results and then quit. I tried a couple other times for a few minutes and gave up too.

A while back I had it pulling a few digital channels but signal strength was low and analog channels faired much worse than the E80H, so I used the E80H for analog until I got the 58" and now if I watch TV on this TV its live digital.

AudioJosh,
Recording couldn't be easier than with the 3410.
I know it's pretty hard to record when you can't get a signal, but as far as setting up a recording:
Do you have TV Guide listings populating?
Once the guide is populated, it is as simple as finding the show you want to record and pressing the Green button to record.
Let us know if you have any luck.

I have never gotten the TV Guide to populate much for obvious reasons. I guess I expected to program it to record like the E80H, which is timer recording (that is how my mind thinks). I am going to pick up a silver sensor attenna and toy around with the LG some this weekend and see if I can't figure out what is going on. If it doesn't work out I'll probably just sell the LG.

If you are having reception problems with a 3410A, the original people on this board will tell you that you are probably over driving the input. I have to pad mine down by 10 dB in order to get digital reception off the same line that brings in a beautiful picture without attenuation to a MOT 3416 box.

If you are having reception problems with a 3410A, the original people on this board will tell you that you are probably over driving the input. I have to pad mine down by 10 dB in order to get digital reception off the same line that brings in a beautiful picture without attenuation to a MOT 3416 box.

yeah...straight shot at NYC - that's what I was thinking...try a rabbit ears

of course, it doesn't explain why the analog channels are snowy(?), but ought to try reducing the signal some way