MP1.15 should be good. I ran it for several years after doing a firmware upgrade myself. Jan put mine at MP1.17 when he was doing the power supply cap mod on it.

I'm stumped. Yours has 2 unusual conditions:
1. unable to display tvgos above 480p.
2. loss of clock with tvgos lockup/reserved light on.

Mine retains clock after a brief power cycle.

Mine loses clock memory instantly. It's as if a capacitor used to keep the clock circuit alive for short periods during outages failed. Fortunately there's a workaround. I've had no problems stemming from First Birthday resets.

I discovered that Comcast is providing analog TVGOS data on ch. 13 (0xD) for even my Sony-hi-def recorders.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16769605#post16769605

My 3410 gave up the ghost. When powered on, a relay clicks, there's a red light glowing inside, but the front panel is dark, and there's no output. Any suggestions?

Before it died my DTVPal was faithfully sending packets from CBS 2.1. It got a channel lineup, it got the time, but it never got programming information. Is anyone in Los Angeles getting program info?

Thanks.

Rob

Here's the info on power supply, check the supplies going to front panel...
If they are off, you'll get no panel or operation

POWER SUPPLY UPGRADE LG3410a
C122, C125, C126. Change to 2200uf/25v DigiKey Part # P5545-ND C127. Change to 3300/25v DigiKey Part# P5546-ND C124. Change to 2200uf/25v DigiKey Part # P5545-ND C128, C129 Change to 2200uf/25v DigiKey Part # P5545-ND
Proper Power Supply Voltages:
Large Power Connector
1. +3.8VDC
2. +9VDC
3. 0V Ground
4. +5VDC
5. +5VDC
6. 0V Ground
7. +3.3VDC
8. +3.3VDC
9. 0V Ground
10. +3.3VDC
11. 0V Ground
12. +5.5VDC
13. 0V Ground
14. +3.3VDC
15. On/Off Logic
Hard Drive Power
1. +5VDC
2. 0V Ground
3. +12VDC
4. 0V Ground
Display board Power
1. FD(+) -20.68VDC
2. FD(-) -24.74VDC
3. -28VA -28.81VDC
4. 0V Ground
IF ABOVE DISPLAY SUPPLIES ARE AT -30VDC, THEN EITHER: R106 IS OPEN, OR THERE IS A BAD SOLDER CONNECTION AT THE JUNCTION OF D128 ANODE AND TRANSFORMER PIN 18. SOLDER A JUMPER WIRE ACROSS THE T101-18 AND D128 ANODE CONNECTION.

Mine loses clock memory instantly. It's as if a capacitor used to keep the clock circuit alive for short periods during outages failed. Fortunately there's a workaround. I've had no problems stemming from First Birthday resets.

I won't open the 3410A and replace caps unless/until 3410A's performance changes for the worse. At least now it's predictable and correctable. Just a slight hassle after an outage, which occurs every few months here.

Posters on other threads have reported that Comcast, in several areas, has begun to provide legacy (analog) TVGOS data. Sounds like the most effective approach toward regaining TVGOS functionality, for all analog equipment not just our quirky entry, is to contact both Macrovision and cable operators requesting such data from both ends so to speak!

Here are a few links to earlier posts which provide essential or at least useful info:

First Birthday procedure (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12657466#post12657466)
Two posts down explains where the name originated.

Capacitor replacements on Gemstar regulator board (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12819717#post12819717)
Maybe would maintain the clock through outages!

100102 reset (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12510501#post12510501)
Two posts down are details. Procedure may not work.

The DVR you love to hate! (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12693372#post12693372)
Summation of 3410A with which I basically agree. Great picture quality, composite line inputs, unscrambled QAM mapping (if TVGOS works), but way too many quirks!

Is anyone in the DC, Baltimore, Annapolis area getting TVGOS or time updates via cable or OTA on their 3410A? If so please provide specifics.

So over the weekend I got some listings. As of Friday morning, I had absolutely no listings. We were gone all weekend, and when I checked this evening I had full listings for tonight (Sunday night), full listings for next Friday, and some sporadic listings throughout the week - mostly repeated daytime programs on PBS.

My set-up is OTA only (Cable no, Box no), similar to avstf's. I have my regular zip (48167) input into both the 3410a and Pal. Here's what I think I did that may have made something work:
Thursdsay night (6/2)- I did the "653274147" TV Guide reset which made the 3410a lock up, so I unplug/replug and then did the "100102" reset from the EZ-Scan menu, which freed up the box, and now my Guide was completely blank - no channel line-up, no listings.
On Friday morning (6/3) - I had a channel line-up in the Guide, but no listings. So I did map channel 3 (which otherwise isn't listed) to one of the CBS channels I don't get/use.
Sunday night (6/5) - I check and have full listings for tonight and next Friday.

So, I assume I did get some listings Friday (night) but then either A)the 3410a stopped accepting them, or B) the Pal stopped sending them.

After my post last night, i did a quick unplug/replug of the 3410a and changed channels on the Pal back and forth. This morning I have additonal days of full listings.

After my post last night, i did a quick unplug/replug of the 3410a and changed channels on the Pal back and forth. This morning I have additonal days of full listings.
what do you mean changed channels back and forth?

I am OTA in Pittsbutgh, Pa. I never lost channel listings on the 3410A's but no data on any of them nor on my Toshiba 62hm94. I bought a zenith converter box and tried setting it to broadcast on channel 3 while tuning it to the pbs station for a few days and to CBS for a few days. Nothing. Should I order a DTV converter box and should it be the pal plus version or the tv40cra ?

what do you mean changed channels back and forth?

I am OTA in Pittsbutgh, Pa. I never lost channel listings on the 3410A's but no data on any of them nor on my Toshiba 62hm94. I bought a zenith converter box and tried setting it to broadcast on channel 3 while tuning it to the pbs station for a few days and to CBS for a few days. Nothing. Should I order a DTV converter box and should it be the pal plus version or the tv40cra ?

Flipping away from the TV Guide channel and back to it is a way of fixing a problem the TR-40 and DTVPal and DTVPal Plus converter boxes have. This problem only occurs for people that are not using the IR Blaster or G-Link cable. These people try to leave the converter set to the TV Guide channel.

This (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16486945) message has more on it. Including a recommendation that the Artec T3APR-T converter box be tried instead by someone. To see if it doesn't have this problem. Then people that want to leave the converter box on the TV Guide channel can know that they should be buying the Artec T3APR-T instead.

Your Zenith converter box isn't going to help you get TV Guide listings. (Before I learned of the DTVPal I tried getting TV Guide listings from my Zenith DTT901 converter box too. So you aren't alone. :))

Your reception of your TVGOS (TV Guide On Screen) channel will also have to be good enough such that the picture isn't breaking up.

You can find out which channel should be carrying your TV Guide data at the following url:
http://www.rabbitears.info/market.php?request=tvgos

update1(
Despite the fact that the following http://tvgos.com/dtv/10057.htm still has "Echostar DTVpal (model # TRV-40CR)" listed I think a DTVPal Plus is the only DTVPal that can be purchased today.

Sears and Kmart have carried the DTVPal Plus in the past. Perhaps they still do. I last bought one at Sears at the end of May.
)

update2(
In my experience actually flipping channels isn't necessary to get the DTVPal's TVGOS channel working after a brief loss in power. You just enter the digits so that the DTVPal tunes to the TVGOS channel again.

Either using an actual Scientific Atlanta cable box remote control or a remote programmed to control one.
)

Update:
The 3 DVR's connected as Cable Yes, Cablebox No, with DTVPal mixed into cable as CH3.
TWO of the THREE changed from host 0x0 !!
One is now locked to the DTVPal (On it's own, without me locking it!) and has LISTINGS!
DTVPal set for 60076 Zipcode
Has day 1 (Today) has listings

Second DVR is locked to 0x2 (CBS off Cable, on it's own, without me locking it) and has same identical Listings!!

Third DVR still at host 0x0 EDIT! Locked it to ABC 7-0 to see what happens...

Experimental DVR (Set for Cable NO), locked to CH3 (DTVPal) now has host of 0x0
and listings for day 1 and 3 only....

EDIT! Know why Experimental unit lost host.... Power hit at home day before yesterday wife tells me... only one DTVPal is on UPS (Experimental DVR not on UPS)
This verified on scope -- No TVG in VBI. Sent SA commands, TVG in VBI back on, Locked it to 3-0.....

Looks like something happened, as 3 of 4 units changed.

JanJ, avnsft & fallingwater are trying to solve my/our TVGOS/3410a problems.

MY UPDATE: As for me, I'm using a Artec T3APR-T, it's amost a DVT-Pal, without some DVT functions, 1 of 2 converters, that support TVGOS.

A shortcoming to Artec is, some are getting data from DVT-Pal, but haven't heard of any one getting data from T3APR-T. If you are, please post set up.]

Other than 3 second power reset and (Message reset, to search for TVGOS channel - 653214741), I haven't tried there other programing info, as my 3410a is fairly stable.

In Houston, I've have tried every set up, sudjested by them, and others.

Comcast anolog in Hou., isn't broadcasting, as Comcast is, in a (few) other citys, on FOX, or other channels.

The only information ever recieved on Artec, (OTA tuned to CBS, Support TVGOS on), from cable yes, box no, is it updates clock & replaced my old 80 channel schedual with a new schedual with only 3 channles/icons, no data --

that also limits my ability to do (no listing) recordings for other real recieved channels.

Update July 10th, trying JanJs zip code, will post any changes.

Despite the fact that the following http://tvgos.com/dtv/10057.htm still has "Echostar DTVpal (model # TRV-40CR)" listed I think a DTVPal Plus is the only DTVPal that can be purchased today.You can buy the TR-40 from www.solidsignal.com for $40.01 plus $9.95 shipping.

The Kmart and Sears by me still have the Pal Plus for $59.99.

You can buy the TR-40 from www.solidsignal.com for $40.01 plus $9.95 shipping.

The Kmart and Sears by me still have the Pal Plus for $59.99.

Oops, so I was wrong. Thanks for the correction. And for the update about Kmart and Sears.

I've gotten some very interesting info on the Sony DVR thread regarding unintentional simulcasting of analog and digital TVGOS data when only digital was intended. As I live in Vancouver, BC's DMA I'll continue to receive OTA analog for 2+ more years, and am getting analog data from Comcast cable as well.

Sounds like people in most areas would be well served by requesting (demanding! :mad:) that their cable co's. supply analog TVGOS data (a 'legacy SCTE-127 stream') and attempting to get analog data from digital Converter boxes as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16405984#post16405984
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16779154#post16779154
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16783222#post16783222

Still getting intermittant listings here...

Also, still getting TVG Lockups Both on OTA only, as well as OTA & Cable.

It's about time for another email to Macrovision.... Issue is squarely in their court, as it USED to work.

I am a newby, but I thought I would add some hypotheses re: the 3410. All of these Guide problems seem to relate to the digital change. At that tine, Sony made a firmware upgrade available. LG has made nothing available. The 3410 has a nice tuner and maybe that is all that we can expect any longer. I have tried everything except adding Channel 12in the list (actually, in Chicago, 2.1 is 12).
I think most 3410 people have thrown it away. There are just a few of us diehards remaining, It certainly is a quirky unit. I have had it on its own switch, I boot it so often.

I lost listings about the same time many (if not all) other 3410A users did. I'm not feeding it from a CECB but from analog cable channels which still have TVGOS in VBI. I agree with Jan J: this is caused by some change in what Macrovision is sending, and it's up to them to fix it.

To recap my previous posts on the subject,

1) The local PBS station was and still is feeding TVGOS on VBI lines 13-16, both fields. I have never gotten usable data from them.

2) The local CBS station was feeding TVGOS on line 16 only, both fields, and I had reliable listings from them after I locked the 3410A to that channel. After the analog broadcast shutdown they started feeding lines 13-16 on cable and I haven't gotten listings since.

3) While both stations are now feeding data on the same lines, by comparing the lines with active data with those that are idle at any given time it's apparent that the two stations have their fields reversed. I don't know which is right but I've tried both and gotten nothing. Jan J has said that field reversal will cause the system to fail.

4) I have a suspicion that multiple lines of data may be more than the 3410A can handle. I have no easy way to test that.

All of these Guide problems seem to relate to the digital change.Yes, the Sony's have had the same lockup problems, for one thing. Crossover guys like avnstf have hit on this in the past here, but I don't know if most here realize that many of the problems aren't just inherent to the machines. Even the DTV Pal DVR is having similar problems.

The problems are similar amongst them because they (obviously) all have digital tuners. If you've been following the Sony thread (or own one, like avnstf and I do), you'd know that they've been screwing around with the signals for months and months now. We're constantly losing listings and the host channel keeps shutting off the stream, and just recently the lockups have started yet again (they were first happening a couple of months back, but seemed to mostly stop for awhile).

The Pal DVR people have been constantly losing their TVGOS signal and time on and off recently, too.

I finally took my TR-40 out of the box last Saturday and connected it to the 3410. After several failed attempts with various setup configurations, I was able to get my first listings last night. The good news is they appear to be correct. The setup porceedure that finally worked was entering my real zip code in the LG Guide setup, cable "yes", cable box "no". Then, after confirming these selections, I went back into setup and selected Settings are correct but my channel lineup is incorrect. Lastly, I power cycled the LG. I don't know why this combination of things worked, but it did.

Even though I don't have cable, I ended up connecting my TR-40 to the LG's cable input since there was significant noise on guide CH 3 when joining the output from the TR-40 to my antenna. I must have a strong source of interference in my house and that is likely why I could almost never get WBBM when it was on CH 3. Anyway, using the LG's cable input for the TR-40 isolates it from the antenna and produces a nice clear picture on CH 3.

The first three days I got nothing at all, not even a clock update. Then I saw KEV's post above about flipping the channels on the TR-40 to start the TVG data flow (thank you!). It took me awhile to find a remote that would control the TR-40 in TVGOS mode (FYI, if you have a remote for a Samsung TV, enter code 003 in the cable box mode. There is no code for a Scientific Atlanta box listed in the manual. :mad:). Once I was able to key in CH 121 and reset the TR-40, I power-cycled the LG and got a clock update immediately.

The problem I still have not resolved is that I get an incorrect channel lineup in the Guide. The Chicago local channels are all listed, but they have the 3-digit cable channel numbers instead of the OTA channel numbers. I suppose this is because I selected "cable-yes" when setting up the Guide since my TR-40 is connected to the cable input. My work-around was to manually enter the OTA channel numbers in the channel editor. Unfortunately, these reverted back to the 3-digit cable channels after receiving last night’s listings. I edited them back to the OTA channels today and we'll see if they hold after receiving tonight’s data.

I may still try joining guide CH 3 to the antenna feed and connecting the combined signal to the LG's antenna input to see if I get any data. But I really think the noise/interference is severe enough to corrupt the listings. It might help if I had a CH 3 blocker. Anyway, just wanted to report on my progress and let you all know that you are not alone. I sure wouldn’t have gotten this far without you guys.

Update 7/9/2009 (Night Two): I received more listings last night and the edited OTA channel numbers remained in the Guide. Everything seems to be working so far. We'll see how long I can go before a reset is needed. When I was getting TVG listings from OTA channels (until June 26 on CH 32), I usually had to reset the LG only once a month or so. Anything close to that with the TR-40 would be great. We'll see.

The problem I still have not resolved is that I get an incorrect channel lineup in the Guide. The Chicago local channels are all listed, but they have the 3-digit cable channel numbers instead of the OTA channel numbers.Perhaps you've inadvertently entered the funky zip code (from the TR-40 manual) into your DVR instead of your actual zip code?

Perhaps you've inadvertently entered the funky zip code (from the TR-40 manual) into your DVR instead of your actual zip code?
Nope. I entered my real zip code. The local channels are listed in my guide (WBBM, WLS, WMAQ, etc.), but they have the cable channel numbers instead of the OTA channel numbers (2-1, 5-1, 7-1, etc). Am I correct in assuming that when both cable and OTA sources are connected to the LG that the guide listings come from both sources (OTA CH 32 and analog cable CH 32, for example). Did people with cable get OTA channel numbers before the analog cutoff? Is anyone getting them now?

Am I correct in assuming that when both cable and OTA sources are connected to the LG that the guide listings come from both sources (OTA CH 32 and analog cable CH 32, for example).No. If you tell the LG that you have cable but no cable box, then it will look for guide data only from analog channels on the cable RF input. It won't even tune OTA analog channels, although you can watch OTA digital and cable digital and analog channels, and incorporate them into the guide listings.

No. If you tell the LG that you have cable but no cable box, then it will look for guide data only from analog channels on the cable RF input. It won't even tune OTA analog channels, although you can watch OTA digital and cable digital and analog channels, and incorporate them into the guide listings.

Right, if you turn on cable it, only recieve anolog from cable, not OTA.

But if (cable no) shouldn't it recieve and find OTA Digital broadcast & the old anolog OTA, like a merged anolog channel 3 from a PAL?

Of course, a lot of us want/would love to use, cable yes, with 3 blocked and re-introduced from a TVGOS converter box. But, most of us aren't getting stable TVGOS yet.

JanJ, did the lock to FOX anolog cable work?

Update July 10th, trying JanJs zip code, will post any changes.

Artec T3APR-T, no data, yet



IT'S TIME WE ALL SEND A EMAIL TO TO Macro Vision, LG & Comcast and/or DVT-Pal/Artec,


Members, PLEASE post/repost their contanct info! I'll start gathering and posting them.


All readers, please send them complaints, let's all send a message for them to read this,

AVS Forum > HDTV > HDTV Recorders
LG LST-3410A Review and Discussion,

forum and ask them for repairs/help!

Any idea what a fair asking price would be for one of these? I have only used mine to play my DVHS recordings through the LG's firewire from my Mits dvhs decks so it is in terrific condition. I am going to get rid of my DVHS decks as well since I only watch HD discs anymore.

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!

Tom

Any idea what a fair asking price would be for one of these?
Tom
3410s were worth around $3-400, but now think you would be lucky to get much over $100, without a stable TVGOS menu/recording signal.


If you sell it, you should warn them about the faults we deal with.
It's not a box for someone to just turn on and start using!

Ouch but thanks:)

I just got back from my trip Thursday night, and nothing had changed, i.e., still getting A and B packets from my DTVPal, but no listings.

So last night, as a different kind of experiment, just to see if the unit can get ANY kind of TVGOS listings in the Bay area, I disconnected the Pal from the unit's antenna input, leaving just the antenna on this input. I then split the cable feed that was going to my housemate's Comcast high-def recorder, and then connected one of the splitter outputs to the cable input of my 3410a.

I then reset the unit to cable yes/box no, after which I did a complete rescan (both OTA and cable), which gave me all the usual OTA channels and lots of cable channels. When I turned the unit off the guide light came on immediately, in contrast to its previous state, when the light was never coming on (even though I saw packets when I turned the unit on and checked...)

A little after 2 AM, I checked the unit again, and the guide light was on...I turned the unit on to see what was happening, and still found no listings, but found that the host channel had switched to 0x9. Presumably this is cable 9, otherwise known as analog PBS (KQED)! So this, I guess, indicates it is seeing analog TVGOS on this cable channel. The TV Guide channel lineup had not changed, and I will leave it off until this afternoon before checking again, to see whether the lineup changes (or I get listings in the old lineup)

I just want to see whether I get a functioning TV Guide over the next few days, and if it stays that way without intervention. If so, this would indicate that valid TVGOS data is coming over cable along with the analog PBS signal, which would mean there is SOME valid v7 data available in the Bay area, and presumably would also mean that Comcast is getting that data by successfully converting valid legacy data.

Follow me?

(This way of getting the data won't work for me after this month, because my housemate is dropping her Comcast service when the Tour de France ends, because the COST has increased to over 100 bucks a month...)

What I anticipate is that I won't get stable v7 TVGOS this way either, if in fact what is getting converted and piped along with PBS 9 has some kind of defect in the v7 data. If - on the other hand - it HAS no defect, that means that the legacy v7 data that PBS is getting is good, and would PRESUMABLY mean the legacy v7 data reaching CBS 5.1 in the same transmission complex is also good. If so, either the way CBS is inserting the v7 legacy data is screwed up (even though my test of the DTVPal output with my Sony 250 seems to indicate that the v8 legacy data is good), OR my DTVPaL is malfunctioning (though it seems to be functioning for the legacy v8 data, as just mentioned), OR something is wrong with my 3410a for converted legacy v7 data (but this wouldn't make sense, if it is accepting converted legacy v7 data via cable).

UPDATE - got a lineup by 9:45 AM. I checked a while ago, and the guide light was off, so I turned the unit on and found I had gotten a cable lineup in my TV Guide...i.e., it asked me to choose from 6 lineups, and when I did it gave me a grid and a lot of cable channels (many of which I shut off, both to limit the number and because some showed no signal)

So now I'm waiting through the afternoon to see if the guide light turns back on. (When I checked the unit it was around the time for one of the download periods to begin - according to the old analog schedule - and by the time I selected a lineup and then edited it some, we were definitely in the late morning download period. So I'm hoping that's the reason the guide light didn't come on, but that it DOES come on for the last listings download period of the day...

(of course, I'm kind of hoping there will be a screw up, because that would indicate that ALL the v7 TVGOS data originating from the legacy stream is messed up, which would exonerate my Pal and 3410a as being the source of the problem getting listings...

Ouch but thanks:)

I would wait for the smoke to clear on this TVGOS stuff. If it becomes reliable and easy, the value may go back up.

The unit does a lot of stuff well without the TVGOS stuff; however, the people that use those features are in various small niches, such as yourself who uses it to watch dvhs. It's one of the best ways to watch dvhs, though.

I myself have a brand new unit that I had stockpiled. The only time it was powered up was when I upgraded the HD to a 300 GB Quicktime (they were still available back then). i'm wondering what to do with it now.

3410s were worth around $3-400, but now think you would be lucky to get much over $100, without a stable TVGOS menu/recording signal.

If you sell it, you should warn them about the faults we deal with.
It's not a box for someone to just turn on and start using!

Or not. Here is an ebay listing for a "tweaked" 3410 with a buy-it-now price of $875. The seller's description claims it was "tweaked by a friend who did service work for LG on these units, and this unit has electronic enhancements not found on factory units." http://cgi.ebay.com/LG-LST-3410A_W0QQitemZ250425864478

Here's another one going for over $200: http://cgi.ebay.com/LG-LST-3410A-HDTV-DVR-High-Definition_W0QQitemZ260441623573

Of course, none of these sellers mention any issues with TVGOS. Caveat emptor!

http://cgi.ebay.com/LG-LST-3410A_W0QQitemZ250425864478

http://cgi.ebay.com/LG-LST-3410A-HDTV-DVR-High-Definition_W0QQitemZ260441623573

Caveat emptor!

A seller can ask any price he wants, but that doesn't mean that something will sell. The first link's vague discription of added functionalities and closing disclaimer makes it a nonstarter, IMHO:
'Note: Although the unit functions perfectly, The unit is sold “As Is” and I will offer no technical support on the use of Menu Codes, Diagnostic Utilities, TV Guide Resets, or any aspect of the unit or its function or performance.'

The second link has received bids so it may be a fair indicator of 3410A's market value:
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=260441623573

...I then reset the unit to cable yes/box no, after which I did a complete rescan (both OTA and cable), which gave me all the usual OTA channels and lots of cable channels...

(This way of getting the data won't work for me after this month, because my housemate is dropping her Comcast service when the Tour de France ends, because the COST has increased to over 100 bucks a month...)

Comcast's Limited Basic is relatively cheap,but if you get all your local channels OK OTA its not worth around $15 a month just as source for analog TVGOS data. Back to experimenting with DTVPal, I guess.

A seller can ask any price he wants, but that doesn't mean that something will sell.

Of course. I was just amused that someone has the stones to list one for $875. Even so, I have used ebay enough to learn that this listing will likely drive up the auction prices of other similar items. Maybe it's a good time to sell. Not that I am selling mine anytime soon. I'd like to ask him if the "tweaks" allow the unit to receive version 8 of the guide. I think we all know the answer to that question.

He's got a 10 day listing which just started. Now is the time to throw questions at him and see what he will reveal!

Comcast's Limited Basic is relatively cheap,but if you get all your local channels OK OTA its not worth around $15 a month just as source for analog TVGOS data. Back to experimenting with DTVPal, I guess.

Exactly. You might as well get a TIVO HD. I just can't bring myself to pay a monthly service fee for something I've been getting for free.

Got listings again last night from CH 3 off the TR-40. No resets, corrupt data, or changes to my edited channel numbers SO FAR. :)

This new post from the Sony thread may be useful:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127#post16808127

Comcast's Limited Basic is relatively cheap,but if you get all your local channels OK OTA its not worth around $15 a month just as source for analog TVGOS data. Back to experimenting with DTVPal, I guess.
hm...hadn't thought of that...but does it stay that low, when they finish converting to digital only and/or making you rent that little conversion box?

(I DO get all the local digital channels fine...)

anyway, based on Jan J's experience, I would assume that ultimately the analog TVGOS from Cable will have problems, along with the DTVPal conversion messup, for version 7....

that's what this experiment is about...on the other hand if this WORKS, AND my DTVPal successfully converts data for my Sony (which it appears to), then the source of the problem would seem to narrow down to nowhere, unless CBS 5.1 is somehow goofing up things in inserting the legacy data into its digital signal...

I would assume that ultimately the analog TVGOS from Cable will have problems, along with the DTVPal conversion messup, for version 7....

I can't get Seattle locals OTA here so Comcast's Limited Basic would be cost effective. We get Triple Play though so cost isn't an issue.

Comcast's legacy SCTE 127 stream on the analog KCPQ FOX 13 simulcast has been consistent and all my V7's including 3410A are lapping it up!

This new post from the Sony thread may be useful:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16808127#post16808127
seems just to replicate what we've been doing in this thread (and even there)..

seems just to replicate what we've been doing in this thread (and even there)..

True, but it's nice to see everything all in one place! Too bad the popular threads can't have a few 'stickies' on top.

I can't get Seattle locals OTA here so Comcast's Limited Basic would be cost effective. We get Triple Play though so cost isn't an issue.

Comcast's legacy SCTE 127 stream on the analog KCPQ FOX 13 simulcast has been consistent and all my V7's including 3410A are lapping it up!
? does that include the cable digital package, etc, in which case how much does the whole package cost? (I assume by triple play you mean also having phone and internet...)

PS...if you haven't been having any problems, then why are you involved in this thread?

My comment that you quoted was about the fact that Jan J had been seeing comparable screw ups in both his standard configuration - with cable - and in his test unit (no cable),seeming to imply that both the analog cable v7 TVGOS and the Pal output for the 3410a were messed up in his area...and I'm trying to see if the same is true in mine...

I don't pay the Comcast Bill (Limited Basic would be enough TV for me) but with broadband and flat rate long distance to the US and Canada Triple Play comes in around $185 including Encore and HBO channels. The extra TV doesn't cost more with Triple Play, except HBO.

My interest in 3410A goes beyond TVGOS. As you undoubtedly know, 3410A was the second hi-def DVR available after its predecessor, OTA only Zenith HDR230, with PSIP guide data only. It's the only hi-def DVR with composite line inputs and does provide great picture quality.

TVGOS best feature is unscrambled QAM channel mapping. Otherwise its OK, but better for TV sets which are routinely turned off than recorders, which don't have to be. It's ironic that you who care about TVGOS are having so many problems, while I'm not. Hopefully there are others who care, who aren't having problems. If TVGOS was no longer available I'd still use 3410A as a hi-def tuner which records manually without timers and even edits the recordings.

I configure my components so a ReplayTV 4XXX is always at the end of a signal path. (A DVD recorder is in the 'middle'.) Everything is switchable so I can watch high-def if I choose, but ReplayTV's EPG is available in standard-def from any source. Using RTV's EPG doesn't cause extra delay or picture degradation because RTV's 4XXX's have a 'Bypass' option.

An update on test to see if my 3410a gets TVGOS listings via cable (the details discussed here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16807460#post16807460)):

After hooking the cable cable into the cable input around 10:30 last night (and making the settings changes, etc)...

1- when I checked about 2:30 this AM, the host channel had changed to cable 9 (PBS);

2- at 9:45 AM or so I had a channel lineup in the guide; and

3- when I checked at 4:45 PM, the guide light for the afternoon download had gone off, and I had listings for days 1,2,3, and 8.

I plan to leave it hooked up for several more days, to see if it screws up when it gets to having an 8-day guide.

Jan J- so, if I remember correctly, you had tried to get listings from cable, but either they didn't resume them after stopping them months ago OR you got some listings, but they messed up soon, AND you've lately been trying only setups using the DTVPal, either with or without cable?

fallingwater- well, I REALLY like this unit and I REALLY like having the listings in it, but my fallback position is to use it for setting manual scheduled recordings on a few programs that recur regularly (so that I can easily keep track) AND for high-value programs (especially from PBS) that I want to edit slightly and then record on D-VHS tapes with my JVC 30K recorder - the 3410a/JVC(30k or 40k) combo is one of the few ways that you can archive and play back such programs at original high-definition quality...(by the way, with respect to mapping, when I reset my unit for cable, and scanned, I got a whole lot of channels in formats like 89-1 to 89-6 or 8, and 3 digit-1 to whatever...I have no idea how to deal with those -though it doesn't really matter, since in no scenario that I anticipate would I end up with cable, at least not any that has a full array of cable channels...)

My understanding is that without any TVGOS info at all, the NO DATA black screen, 3410A no longer maintains manual timer capability and can only start a recording, up to 12 hours long, by pushing the REC/EDIT button on the remote, or REC on the front panel; IOW in realtime only. Such a recording could still be edited and unwanted parts deleted using the Clip/Edit function. Conversely, the Clip/Record function can turn segments of an ongoing Timeshift buffer into permanent recordings.

3410A is unique (?) in that it apparently (?) doesn't employ PSIP virtual channel data when its V7 TVGOS maps QAM channels, but uses actual QAM channel numbers instead. The numbers you report are actual cable QAM channels on Comcast in my area, for example. Do you know of other QAM tuners which employ V7 TVGOS?

It's nice to see your scheme for recording in high-def. I actually have a JVC standard-def digital VHS recorder/Dish receiver which isn't compatible with 3410A. I have recorded digital VHS on it but nowadays use it for playback of legacy VHS tapes. It's connected to one of 3410A's composite inputs.

BTW, it appears that a used 3410A in excellent condition has greater market value than generally given credit for:

Lightly used LG high-def DVR in excellent condition! I used this primarily as a HD tuner. Includes the original box, remote, manuals, and cables pictured (DVI; coax; and IR cable box repeater).
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=260441623573

Readers PLEASE post or keep reposting any (stable) TVGOS on 3410As, posting your city, from DVTPal & Artec T3APR-T converters!

The 3410As are the best HD DECODERS ever built' as decodes OTA digital and anolog cable HD/QAM, & records HD!

The 120 gig hard drive is easy to up grade to 300+gig.

It's highly valued by people that use secondary disk/vcr recorders to copy/use HD/programing.

It's got alot of work around, reset/learning issues, it's not for beginners (as the Ebay sellers are presenting them, as they were advertized 5 years ago)

I think it will hold value, $250-450 due to its assets, but I believe, if you want one, they will be cheap next few months, unless TVGOS is stablized.

As for me, without a updated TV guide it's only recording functions are reduced to researching what's on & setting the weakly timer, no fun, programs change every few weeks, and I miss, or mess up, recording my favorite 10 weekly TV shows, just like VHS recording I never used.

UPTDATE, HOUSTON, OTA & Comcast anolog, no usable TVGOS menu or data, on any set up, that I change every 4 days, on my 3410a/Artec TVGOS box.

Update (Day 4)

Not good news. After 3 days of success, I didn't receive any listings last night. I never saw the guide light come on and there are no listings for days 3 and 8 which I should have received last night. So I power cycled the 3410. The guide light came on for a moment and then went off.

This seems to be the same problem others here are having. Listings are downloaded for a few days and then some type of TVGOS data corruption occurs and the LG begins behaving erratically (guide can't be displayed, won't download, can't record, etc.). I had really hoped that I might escape this problem since I only have 11 OTA channels in my guide and there should be more than enough memory to hold the data. My 3410 was very reliable on the OTA analog data. So there is definitely something in the converted data from the TR-40 that is causing the corruption.

I'll post an update tomorrow once I see if power cycling resumes the listing downloads.

Lightly used LG high-def DVR in excellent condition! I used this primarily as a HD tuner. Includes the original box, remote, manuals, and cables pictured (DVI; coax; and IR cable box repeater).
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=260441623573

Lightly used LG high-def DVR in excellent condition! I used this primarily as a HD tuner. Includes the original box, remote, manuals, and cables pictured (DVI; coax; and IR cable box repeater).
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=260441623573

You dog, Let us know how bids/sale does!
Thanks for your help.

The eBay listing wasn't mine; I was merely quoting the seller's description.
Seller did OK, getting $355!

---
R U having no luck with the Artec T3APR-T?

No luck, (think) it's Hou. OTA-CBS & the MacroVision lack of broadcast support/repair, that every ones getting, not the T3APR-T coverter

Readers PLEASE post or keep reposting any (stable) TVGOS on 3410As, posting your city, from DVTPal & Artec T3APR-T converters

UPTDATE, Going to try recieving box on OTA, no cable, not merged with local DTV, just box. Will update.

Have been using HOUSTON, OTA & Comcast anolog, clock update, unusable 3 channel TVGOS menu, NO data; on any set up, that I change every 4 days, on my 3410a/Artec TVGOS box

PS: FOR EBAY BUYERS
Bet the Ebay buyer @ $355 thinks it works as stated, HA.
We might, all go together & buy that $895 one, if he'll through in the Golden Gate bridge & a Condo.
Thinking of listing my 3410a for $500 min. and adding all shortcomings, so buyers won't get the shaft!-but don't want to drive our value down

I would have gladly sold mine on ebay for that price if I didn't check out this thread as I wouldn't have known about the LG's problems.:( Now that I know, there is no way I could sell it without listing the problems. If I decide to sell what exactly are it's list of problems?

Thanks,
Tom

I would have gladly sold mine on ebay for that price if I didn't check out this thread as I wouldn't have known about the LG's problems.:( Now that I know, there is no way I could sell it without listing the problems. If I decide to sell what exactly are it's list of problems?
Tom

Tom, If you want, just say the TV guide onscreen recording menu isn't working, yet, after the digital transition.
If your real honest, the recorder controller chip locks up 1 or more times a month = power reboot, or if brave tell them to review this forum, but if you do, it may not sell, start @ $450 sell now or with a $250 min, good luck.

Your welcome, can you appraise my antiquies? We're trying to fix our 3410s.

Thinking of listing my 3410a for $500 min. and adding all shortcomings, so buyers won't get the shaft!-but don't want to drive our value down

There's another one on eBay now from a British seller with 100% Positive Feedback:

LST-3410A HDTV Digital Video Recorder/Receiver
Perfect working order and condition. Very little use. Comes with original box, remote, and accessories.

Note this is U.S voltage, 120V. So a voltage converter is required. Will ship worldwide.

No Returns Accepted

His starting bid is GBP 229 which is roughly US $375 or Buy It Now for GBP 289 (US $470.) Shipping is GBP 49 or US $80.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160347165451

Relisted (http://cgi.ebay.com/LG-LST-3410A-HD-Digital-Video-Recorder-Receiver-HDTV_W0QQitemZ160348745819QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_AudioTVElect ronics_Video_DVDPlayers_Recorders?hash=item255587b05b&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1205%7C293%3A1%7C 294%3A50) at GBP 199 starting bid.

There's another one on eBay now from a British seller with 100% Positive Feedback:

LST-3410A HDTV Digital Video Recorder/Receiver
Perfect working order and condition. Very little use. Comes with original box, remote, and accessories.

Note this is U.S voltage, 120V. So a voltage converter is required. Will ship worldwide.

No Returns Accepted

His starting bid is GBP 229 which is roughly US $375 or Buy It Now for GBP 289 (US $470.) Shipping is GBP 49 or US $80.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=160347165451
LOVE this in the description...Anyone ever hear of proof reading??? But then again if it is true then it is worth every penny and then some as the worlds only one...
DVI Output: DVI, or Digital Video Interface, allows digital audio and high definition video to be carried through one cable from one device to another. It makes hookup simple, and provides a perfect digital signal.

After re-reading the listing's info I believe the part below is 'boilerplate' copied from another source. However after Googling for the source I'm unable to prove my suspicion.

*120 GB Hard Drive: The hard drive is large enough to store 12 hours of HDTV, or up to 120 hours of standard definition TV.
*Built-In HDTV Tuner: The tuner is already built in, so you can enjoy high-definition TV shows from the moment you connect the recorder to your TV.
*TV Guide On Screen: Get TV listings with no subscription and no phone line connection. TV Guide On Screen uses your ZIP code to tailor its listings to you, and updates them through data embedded in programming. Keep up with the program by watching it in a live window as you browse the listings.
*VCR Plus+: Record shows by simply entering the code number next to their listings.
*Live TV Pause: If you need a break, pause the DVR, and come back to the exact same point in the program whenever you're ready to resume viewing. You won't miss a thing.
*Frame-By-Frame Advance: Watch parts of recordings one frame at a time, just as you would with a DVD player or a VCR.
*Smart Skip: The recorder analyzes the video to create "chapters," similar to those on a DVD. Using these chapters, you can skip to other scenes in the program.
*Video Synopsis: The recorder creates summaries of programs for easy viewing. One to four seconds of each summery will play so you can identify the scenes you want to see.
*Drag & Play: Drag & Play brings you to any point in a recording by dragging the on-screen progress bar to the desired point.
*Clip Record: Record segments of different shows and edit them together with guidance from the on-screen menu.
*Archive to DVHS: If you have a DVHS VCR connected to the DVR through FireWire, you can archive shows to tape from the hard drive.
*V-Chip: Block programs with certain ratings with the on-screen menu system. The system requires a password to view blocked shows.
*Component Video Output: For true HDTV, connect the DVR to your TV through the component video output. Each color of the video signal (red, blue and green) is carried to the display separately, so the picture is sharper and clearer.
*DVI Output: DVI, or Digital Video Interface, allows digital audio and high definition video to be carried through one cable from one device to another. It makes hookup simple, and provides a perfect digital signal.
*Optical Audio Output: The optical audio output lets you enjoy full 5.1-Channel Dolby Digital surround sound when connected to an audio receiver with a Dolby Digital decoder.
*IEEE 1394 Connection: Quickly transfer video to and from the DVR to a DVHS VCR or MV-format camcorder through the IEEE 1394 FireWire connection. Since the transfer is completely digital, there's no loss of information as there often is with tape-based dubbing.
*IEEE 1394 Control: Control two FireWire devices separately from the on-screen menu.
*G-LINK: G-LINK is an infrared transmitter that can control your VCR or satellite receiver. Place the transmitter near the VCR or satellite's IR receiver and the DVR will command the unit to power on and change channels to record shows automatically.
*RGB Output: The RGB output allows the DVR to be connected to professional video and computer monitors.

Package Includes:

*LG LST-3410A HDTV Receiver
*RF Cable
*Audio Cable (Composite)
*Video Cable (Composite)
*Component Video Cable
*Remote Control
*Owners Manual (on CD ROM)

I did run across this (http://www.lowtechhitech.com/index.php?day=2006-06-03&title=LG+LST-3410a+Troubleshooting), however. I've never heard of the highlighted capability before. Can anyone confirm that behavior?

LG LST-3410a Troubleshooting
June 3, 2006
I noticed a bunch of searches in my web logs for the title of this entry, so I figured I'd share my experiences.

My PVR is an LG LST-3410a, sporting an ATSC digital tuner and HDTV from a rooftop antenna. It gets its TV Guide info over the air, which allows you easily to record upcoming shows. It also allows you to schedule regular timed recordings for stations that might not be on the guide.

TV Guide
The first thing to know is that TV Guide is ANALOG-- not digital. This means that your recorder must have one or more of your local analog stations in the channel lineup in order to receive TV Guide. Those stations must be ones that carry the TV Guide signal-- which you may not be able to determine without contacting TV Guide (which I had to do). In my area, Charleston, SC, the only reliable source is the local channel 4. This happens also to be the weakest of the stations I receive.

So, do NOT do what I did and remove all of the analog stations from your channel lineup. I did this because in my town all of the analog stations also broadcast in digital, so I never have a reason to watch the analog version (except in rainstorms, bah). If you do this, you will discover that within a few days you will lose much of your TV Guide information.

Also, although your guide setup allows you to change the channel for a particular station (in my case analog 4 could be changed to digital 4-1), do NOT change the one that your TV Guide comes in on. Because if you do this it will cause your tuner NOT to search the analog signal for the TV Guide. If you do this, you can lose all of your guide info.

Grab TV Guide Manually
Sort of. Ordinarily, the LG will download the TV Guide data only when it is off. This is because the tuner must switch to the analog channel for your guide-- which it can't do if you have the unit on and in use. If you know the analog station that locally broadcasts your TV Guide, and you happen to want to watch it, tune to that station and your unit will immediately begin downloading TV Guide data while it is on. This is a great way to jump-start the download process. You can even do this while watching a recorded show.

Invalid Channel for Scheduled Recording
Because the recording of programs relies on date and time info, if your LG date gets out of whack due to a power interrupt or something else, you can get this error. Sometimes, a regularly scheduled recording of a weekly program can cause this. I suspect it happens with the program drops off the schedule for a week because it was preempted. But, this can just happen for no apparent reason.

When this happens, the TV Guide will no longer come up, and you'll get this error every time you turn on your unit. In my experience, it will not cure itself, and you won't get your guide back without intervention.

The fix is to turn off your unit, then unplug it for 15 seconds or so (long enough for it to lose the time). Then, when you turn it back on, as soon as you can, go to the TV Guide. If you can't get in, unplug it again and start over. Once in the TV Guide, go in to your scheduled recordings and delete everything. After you've done that, power off the unit, then power it back on and set the time manually (or tune it to your TV Guide analog channel and let it set it's own time).

updated Sat, Jun 3, 2006 12:17:29 pm

LG Customer Service told me that the Artec T3APR-T D-to-A converter would be able to supply the TVGOS for my LST-3410A. I got one, but I'm not sure how to get the Artec to convert the digital TVGOS to analog.

Has anyone gotten one of these units to convert a digital OTA TVGOS source to an analog TVGOS input accepted by the 3410A? If so, please give a step-by-step how-to.

If the Artec won't do that, what made LG think it would?

Thanks.

Some Artec T3APR-T info:

User Manual (http://207.210.85.226/~artectv/Service_e/nl/downloads/user_manuals/T3APR-T//T3APR-T.pdf) (which I assume you already have)

Scroll down from this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16716804#post16716804) for more Artec related posts.

Some Artec T3APR-T info:

User Manual(which I assume you already have)

Scroll down from this post for more Artec related posts.

Sorry, I should have noted that I've read the posts, but it's hard to find the answer if it is even there.

Just asking for someone who has a LST-3410A connected to a T3APR-T connected to an antenna and is getting the TVGOS for their local channels to post how they did it.

I don't have or want a G-Link/analog solution.

So far I haven't seen posts reporting success from Artec T3APR-T users.

Have you read DTVPal+ users' posts; some of which report at least partial success? The two converters aren't identical, of course, but Pal users' experiences may be helpful.

Sorry, I should have noted that I've read the posts, but it's hard to find the answer if it is even there. Just asking for someone who has a LST-3410A connected to a T3APR-T connected to an antenna and is getting the TVGOS for their local channels to post how they did it. I don't have or want a G-Link/analog solution.

Read my posts, seems you and I are only T3APR-T guys, tried every set up, starting to think we should buy a DVTPal, Jan's getting data from DVTPal, but am still waiting for more results on his stability tests, on his (4) 3410As, it seems to help if you tune T3APR-T to CBS, before turning TVGOS support on, on your Artec, I'd try/use Jans zip 60076, as the Hou zip schedual sucks, and they say the fake zips in your book, 00010, aren't working. Where in TX are you? G-link isn't working but if we had one it couldn't hurt, as no one has tried it on Artec boxes,

UPTDATE, HOUSTON, OTA & Comcast anolog, no usable, but recieved 3 channel TVGOS menu, & no data, on any set up, that I change every 4 days, on my 3410a/T3APR-T Artec TVGOS box.

Jan & Tony would love to talk to the software/program chip designers of our boxes, about there fake zips, G-link, ect. & ect.
I wonder if, Macrovision, Artec, DVTPal, would let them contact him/them, so next genration TVGOS converters will work as stated ??????? !

Some questions for JanJs help, to come, for more questions and set up tests for us Artec guys to try

Tom, If you want, just say the TV guide onscreen recording menu isn't working, yet, after the digital transition.
If your real honest, the recorder controller chip locks up 1 or more times a month = power reboot, or if brave tell them to review this forum, but if you do, it may not sell, start @ $450 sell now or with a $250 min, good luck.

Your welcome, can you appraise my antiquies? We're trying to fix our 3410s.



Thanks for the advice.:) I'm going to be busy selling this and 4 Mits's DVHS decks. Hopefully, my JVC 5U deck will be reliable enough to play my DVHS movie recordings as I no longer record.

Tom

Thanks Fallingwater for that historical info. I remember reading that in my searches.

An important spec is that the 3410 uses analog sources for the TVGOS.
So, my bottom line and final answer for my own 3410: I will only use the 3410 for recording specials. It only holds 12 hours of HD. So I will do manual recording of special shows.

Why has there been some success, off and on, among many reporters above? My recent hypothesis: The TR40, the DTV Pal AND THE Artec are all "analog pass through" converter boxes. Not all converter boxes allow analog pass through. These do. And....by some fluke, some analog TVGOS is getting through, either through cable position or whatever.

Unless Macrovision comes through with a major thing -- and I know many of you do not expect that -- I am not going to wait another 24 hour period. I am not going to go with 00000 zips. I am not going with anymore boots. I am done.

3410 you aren't quite toast; you are just a pretty good manual recorder.

Thanks Fallingwater for that historical info. I remember reading that in my searches.

An important spec is that the 3410 uses analog sources for the TVGOS.
So, my bottom line and final answer for my own 3410: I will only use the 3410 for recording specials. It only holds 12 hours of HD. So I will do manual recording of special shows.

Why has there been some success, off and on, among many reporters above? My recent hypothesis: The TR40, the DTV Pal AND THE Artec are all "analog pass through" converter boxes. Not all converter boxes allow analog pass through. These do. And....by some fluke, some analog TVGOS is getting through, either through cable position or whatever.
Unless Macrovision comes through with a major thing -- and I know many of you do not expect that -- I am not going to wait another 24 hour period. I am not going to go with 00000 zips. I am not going with anymore boots. I am done.3410 you aren't quite toast; you are just a pretty good manual recorder.

OK, if it's toast for you, we are all unhappy,, or, if you want TVGOS to work, keep reading.

Still getting intermittant listings here...

Also, still getting TVG Lockups Both on OTA only, as well as OTA & Cable.

It's about time for another email to Macrovision.... Issue is squarely in their court, as it USED to work.

Hi Jan, From Rich -- Questions

How many schedualed stations are you getting on average?

Do you know, if the info came from CBS digital/DVTPal on Pals channel 3, on your zip?

Could you, give a guess, if you have read my posts, for us, to get a Pal, or to wait? TKS RLJ



UPTDATE, HOUSTON, OTA & Comcast anolog, no usable, but recieved 3 channel TVGOS menu, & no data, on any set up, that I change every 4 days, on my 3410a/T3APR-T Artec TVGOS box.

PS - Chat

Think Jan & Tony would love to talk to the software/program chip designers of our boxes, about there fake zips, G-link, ect. & ect.
I wonder if, Macrovision, Artec, DVTPal, would let them contact him/them, so next genration TVGOS converters will work as stated ???????
Wonder, about a small class action suit, your thought? + someone didn't like this question.

rljohnsen,

You are a new member. Bear in mind many of us have been posting on this thread for many years.

Your use of color text and font formatting is unnecessary and distracting.

The unique issues with our beloved 3410a will continue to be what this thread focuses on for more years to come.

There is no reason to 'preach to the choir' here. We report when we have new questions or information to share.



OK, toast for you, we are all unhappy,, or, if you want TVGOS to work, keep reading. Ya think? Are you posting to lead our squad? Or listening to (our) smart leaders?

As I indicated earlier, I am doing a test of my 3410a with Comcast cable connected to the unit (as well as the antenna). I made this change Friday night late, and by the next afternoon, PBS 9 analog was the host channel, I had a lineup, and days 1,2,3, and 8 of listings.

Overnight Saturday, I got another download of listings.

When I checked at midday today, I had gotten no new listings. When I checked again at 7 PM, the guide would not come up, and when trying again, I got the invalid channel message.

I did a 6-second unplug and, when the display returned, the guide light went on and - when I turned the unit on - the guide was again operational.

Having reset the unit, I will see what happens over the next 2 or 3 days, but - assuming I can GET listings only if I do rebooting as I just did - this is the behavior I observed for most of last year, when I had to do nightly reboots to maintain a full guide from PBS 9 OTA. This behavior continued until CBS 5 started broadcasting TVGOS data around Thanksgiving, after which - whenever the unit had 5 as the host channel - it would download listings normally, without the rebooting.

Actually, I HOPED to observe this behavior, because to me it just means that the v7 data is consistently screwed up across the board in our area...

Tony :(

... Where in TX are you? ...

Austin

rljohnsen said "...it seems to help if you tune T3APR-T to CBS, before turning TVGOS support on, on your Artec..."

I've tuned to CBS, had the Artec on with and without going into TVGOS setup, tried my zip and the phony zip for Austin (00065), but no joy yet. I've also sent a message to LG Customer Support asking what setup I should use, since they're the ones who recommended using the Artec.

avnstf et al,

I am proud to say that I bought my first of 3 units in the third month after they came out. All three are in use. Two record daily programs from OTA and cable using timer recording. My guide lights stay on normally and if I see them go out, I know the affected unit needs an unplug/replug. I use them because the delivered 1080i signal to my 96" wide screen is superior to every broadcast signal source I own. I own 8 HD tuners including an RCA DTC100, An LG tuner (whose number I cannot recall), a Sony tuner, and an MD130 card that I use in my computer in HD mode. The latter also provides a superior picture. I'm not sure why but I continue to have the proper stations and channel numbers in the guide which allows me to use timer recording. The clock must be reset manually on those occasions when it goes awry. I will keep using these devices until they are no longer working. If I need a guide, I use the listings in my Motorola/Comcast HD DVR's. Th3 3410A is not dead.

rljohnsen,

You are a new member.
Bear in mind many of us have been posting on this thread for many years. Your use of color text and font formatting is unnecessary and distracting. The unique issues with our beloved 3410a will continue to be what this thread focuses on for more years to come. There is no reason to 'preach to the choir' here. We report when we have new questions or information to share.

Ok , I can get carried away & rude, just ask fallingwater, sorry squadleader.
Not, a new member, if you check, I've been a member for 6+ years, not 4 years, just lost my sign on info.
OK, I'll stop using any color fonts, too!
Do you have any new info to share?
Might you have any MV/LG info or other TVGOS info?
I'll also, not take up any more of this forums time responding to being preached to.

...

An important spec is that the 3410 uses analog sources for the TVGOS.
So, my bottom line and final answer for my own 3410: I will only use the 3410 for recording specials. It only holds 12 hours of HD. So I will do manual recording of special shows.

Why has there been some success, off and on, among many reporters above? My recent hypothesis: The TR40, the DTV Pal AND THE Artec are all "analog pass through" converter boxes. Not all converter boxes allow analog pass through. These do. And....by some fluke, some analog TVGOS is getting through, either through cable position or whatever.

Unless Macrovision comes through with a major thing -- and I know many of you do not expect that -- I am not going to wait another 24 hour period. I am not going to go with 00000 zips. I am not going with anymore boots. I am done.

3410 you aren't quite toast; you are just a pretty good manual recorder.

I was under the impression that the Artec T3APR-T would convert the digital TVGOS to analog. If so, my hypothesis currently is that the analog TVGOS created by the Artec is not in the format that the 3410A is expecting.

Anybody able to use an Artec T3APR-T with another device expecting analog TVGOS?

I was under the impression that the Artec T3APR-T would convert the digital TVGOS to analog. If so, my hypothesis currently is that the analog TVGOS created by the Artec is not in the format that the 3410A is expecting.

Anybody able to use an Artec T3APR-T with another device expecting analog TVGOS?

Quote: I've tuned to CBS, had the Artec on with and without going into TVGOS setup.


I'm pretty sure you (have to turn on TVGuide support) down in set up menu, & run LGs ez scan or it really won't work, it broadcast on anolog channel 3, read some where something about guide on channel 9, but I'm giving up, as have been wrong for weeks..

Your right, - they should, pass though OTA digital, when off, not any anolog,
as there isn't any anolog from OTA any more.

Your right -(in TVGOS support mode) they are converting TVGOS, from digital, to anolog channels we can recieve, then may be converting them back to digital, to transfer info.

Yes, the 3410 dosen't like the info, but a lot of different DVR boxes do work, as stated in past posts.

I haven't heard of a T3APR-T working on this forum thread in the last 300 pages, or anyone even having one except for you, other than my clock and 3cnl. guide/no data, but, if they do work, in some states why would they even read this forum?

You might check the other DVR/DVDR/VCR forums or google, let me know if you find info. Tks. RJ Wish I lived in Austin.

As indicated in my post yesterday (here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16820228#post16820228)) about my test with cable connected to my unit, I did a 6-sec unplug last night to reset the TV Guide.

I did get a regular download overnight, but tonight - even if I see that the guide light is not on - I will NOT do a reset...my bet is on no download overnight tonight!

Tony :)

MrHifi...yes, I understand your point of view, and I plan to keep using the 3410a - although at a considerably lower level - if the TVGOS info doesn't come back. But the guide makes it much more convenient, especially with 3 of us in the household, with different viewing interests...I REALLY like this unit with the guide available. I will still keep it without it, but on restricted duty, because other units then become relatively more convenient...

Update: My 3410 has received listings for the last two nights after power-cycling it on Sunday. The unit had stopped getting listings last Friday after three days of success. If no listings are received tonight or Wednesday, a consistent pattern will be established which I will report to Macrovision. My 3410 had been very stable prior to the shutdown of analog CH 32 at the end of June. I believe there is something about the way the TR-40 converts the listing data to analog (VBI), or perhaps the data itself is corrupt. Either way, Macrovision is going to hear about it. I also will be letting LG and Dish know too.

SUMMARY: TVGOS/3410a/Digital Converters, July 15, 2009
-----------
Jan, Tony and others,
Please copy and paste into a new post by you & edit it instead of my best info/guessing!
Just - with any professional acurate modifications/or redo my statements
No - long bitches/complaints on this SUMMARY,
Just - best/better real info & the facts
------------

1. DVT PAL and ARTEC T3APR-T boxes:
Are not working on 3410s, no 2 way communicating through digital. Their recomended set ups aren't working. It seems they put out a very clear signal, not poor like Cannel 3, on vidio out-Y,R,W, but no one can get TV guide to work on that set up, even with G-link.
The reported working boxes are posted on line #8.

2. ZIP Codes:
Believe/think the fake zip codes were introduced to make TVGOS updating easyier for programing by state/area, using generic info instead of detailed programing for every city, for older versions of TVGOS, but the fake zips aren't working and most local zips aren't/working or being properly updated.

3. LG 3401a:
Memory chip gets overloaded with to much or corrupt info, and ocassionaly needs a short power reset. 3410s may be using a unsupported version of TVGOS by Macro Vision, plus LG won't create/re-release any upgrade to our old filmwares to correct some problems & they claim/suddjest the converter boxes work.
Catch 22.

4. Macro Vision/TVGOS:
Hasn't/isn't giving any (proper) decoding/communcations/version info, to box manufactuers or digital broadcasters, & may not, be doing proper version up dates, to fake or real Zip codes. They don't report working set ups for our LG units, broadcast information, or problem repairs in progress, on their web site or.
They claim, most every thing is working, & say that this isn't their problem, just LGs 3410a problems.
Catch 22.

5. OTA Brodcast Stations:
CBS Dgital TVGOS isn't working on converters most every where, +Texas.
Only, a very few, OTA anolog and Cable anolog are working - line 9.

6. Cable Anolog:
(-----posts?)
As for Comcast, in Houston and some other citys, says they won't keep up support for TVGOS, guessing/suspect they can rent more boxes, to every homes extra rooms with a their working guide boxes & they don't have to convert their digatal downloads to alolog output with a working TVguide converter.

7. Satallite, Dish Net/DVT-TV:
(------posts?)
No info

8. Reported working set ups:
The only reported working box posted is, I think - JanJs, DVT PAL, in Chicago on CBS Digital OTA, cable RF input, local zip code, no G-link

9. Working anolog broadcasts (no box) by City:
(------posts?) Only, a very few OTA anolog and/or Cable anolog areas/stations are broadcasting working signals,
I think fallingwaters was working somewhere in the NW USA. I forgot location.

10. Best tech support contacts & contact info for MV, LG, DVTPal, Artec, Comcast, Ect.
(posts---?)

daily update on my test with cable:

as predicted (because I did NOT do a reboot last night), I did NOT get a program listings download overnight and found (at noon) that the guide light was NOT on (whereas it SHOULD have been)...

I therefore did a reboot at that time, after which the guide light stayed on, AND I got listings from the 1:44 PM 180-minute download, as expected.

This is almost the end of this test, as it it pretty clear that the TVGOS listings (from cable 9 PBS) are doing the same thing with my unit that the defective listings from OTA PBS 9 did to my unit, beginning mid MAY of LAST YEAR...:(

Stay tuned - Tony

(After doing a few more tests with my DTVPal during the next week or so, I will write up my experiences, which I will be happy to contribute to a post-transition addendum to rfburns older summary...as well as sending it to Microvision...)

daily update on my test with cable:

as predicted (because I did NOT do a reboot last night), I did NOT get a program listings download overnight and found (at noon) that the guide light was NOT on (whereas it SHOULD have been)...

I therefore did a reboot at that time, after which the guide light stayed on, AND I got listings from the 1:44 180-minute download, as expected.

This is almost the end of this test, as it it pretty clear that the TVGOS listings (from cable 9 PBS) are doing the same thing with my unit that the defective listings from OTA PBS 9 did to my unit, beginning mid MAY of LAST YEAR...:(

Stay tuned - Tony

(After doing a few more tests with my DTVPal during the next week or so, I will write up my experiences, which I will be happy to contribute to a post-transition addendum to rfburns older summary...as well as sending it to Microvision...)

Did you mean rljohnsens older summary #6323, or what post# is rfburns summary on?

When/if you have time please fix, add to or subtract from my summary.

rfburns' summary (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13453320#post13453320)

Jan J's earlier summary (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12495260#post12495260)

Dear Richard,

As stated before, you do not need a converter box for your set up; Comcast will be converting our data back to analog for you. Now there is a problem in your area and our broadcast engineers are working on this. If you did want to use the Artec, you will need a G-Link cable but you will only be able to get the over the air channels on the LG; you will not be able to get the OTA and Comcast channels. If you do not have the G-link cable that came with your LG, you should be able to get a new one at a electronics store. Once our broadcast engineers have resolved the issue we will let you know.

Thank you,
CE Tech Support

This is almost the end of this test, as it it pretty clear that the TVGOS listings (from cable 9 PBS) are doing the same thing with my unit that the defective listings from OTA PBS 9 did to my unit, beginning mid MAY of LAST YEAR...:(

well, although I did an unplug last night, I did NOT have a fresh download by midday today, so I did an unplug THEN, and again got the 1:44 PM download successfully...this is all SO old, given my experience of this from May until December of last year (albeit on OTA PBS 9)...

I pull the plug on this (i.e., remove the cable, hook up the Pal, reset and rescan) tomorrow...

OK...I did stop my test of TVGOS from cable today...

I then removed the cable, joined the DTVPal output with the antenna feed to my 3410a, reset it for real zip code/no cable, and rescanned, so that once again, I have all OTA digital channels, except for the Pal output on channel 3 and a dim picture on channel 40. (The lineup I saw in the TV Guide after this was, however, unchanged from the OTA/cable lineup I had been testing for the last few days...)

I found that the Pal output still has A and B packets, even though I haven't reset the unit for at least 2 weeks.

After resetting everything, the last listings download period (beginning at 1:44 PM) didn't change anything - i.e., I still had the cable lineup (plus OTA) that I had had before...

I then noticed something odd...when I checked the diagnostics menu, it said the next DL was at 0:15 (i.e., 5:15 PM local time), so I watched to see what happened. What I saw was that within perhaps 15 seconds after 5:15 the guide light went on for one or two seconds, then turned off. A few second later, the same thing happened, and then a few seconds later this happened a third time. After that, no activity. So after a while, I turned the unit on and checked the diagnostic menu again, which said that the next DL was at 5:45 PM.

So at that time I was watching again, and what I saw, beginning maybe 15 seconds after 5:45, was the guide light go on SIX times in the next minute or so, lasting again one or 2 seconds each time.

I'm not sure what happened during those "on" periods...was that long enough to get some info, or was the unit TRYING to get something, but failing each time? Has anyone else observed this behavior with the 3410a?

In any case, I am curious to see if I get the same (non)result I previously got using the Pal...at a minimum, I expect the TV Guide lineup to change to OTA only, but listings? If there are any, THAT would be a change.

Tony :)

Apparently, their support for TVGOS as it exists today is a thing of the past:
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2009/07/macrovision_bec.html
Anyone notice that their site is now completely gone, as well? Too bad we can't sue the bastards! :mad:

I've been in San Francisco for the past week, visiting my daughter....
Just got back, but haven't read any emails or Messages..
Have I missed anything?

I've been in San Francisco for the past week, visiting my daughter....
Just got back, but haven't read any emails or Messages..
Have I missed anything?
After failing in my use of the DTVPal, I hooked my housemate's cable into my unit to see what happened...as you will see if you check back, I got PBS 9 (cable), a channel lineup, and my first 1,2,3,8 set of listings within 24 hours...this worked for another day or so, then fell into the pattern where I had to do a 6-second unplug each night to get listings (and even had to do it again at noon, if the overnight download failed)...so basically NONE of the modes for getting listings work here in the Bay area, as far as I can tell

Furthermore, the behavior with PBS 9 on cable is EXACTLY the behavior I had to put up with from OTA PBS 9, from May of LAST YEAR until early this year, when the listings from CBS 5 (analog) appeared - these gave me no problem...

But, as I say, the behavior I just saw with cable PBS 9 seems identical to what I saw last year...is this a lead?

For now, I am switching back to my test configuration, but on a San Francisco zip code, rather than my own, because when I simply went back to the Pal as the source (and no cable) nothing happened with my own zip, i.e., no change in the channel lineup, and no packets seen from the host channel - which rapidly switched back to channel 3 (the Pal output)...

Tony

Apparently, their support for TVGOS as it exists today is a thing of the past:
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2009/07/macrovision_bec.html
Anyone notice that their site is now completely gone, as well? Too bad we can't sue the bastards! :mad:

I agree with your sentiments, but they are changing their name. Rebranding I think it's called. Like AIG.

http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx

Anyone notice that their site is now completely gone, as well? Too bad we can't sue the bastards! :mad:

...they are changing their name...

http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx

After inputting my ZIP the above link confims that Comcast will provide legacy TVGOS data. Below is the new website with the same TVGOS support that the old website provided:

http://www.rovicorp.com/support/9391.htm

After inputting my ZIP the above link confims that Comcast will provide legacy TVGOS data. Below is the new website with the same TVGOS support that the old website provided:

http://www.rovicorp.com/support/9391.htm

The actual TVGOS support site is gone. They disabled submitting new questions earlier this year - now even the archived answers are gone and the site generates an error.
http://tvgos.custhelp.com/
http://tvgos.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tvgos.cfg/php/enduser/entry.php

One week ago today, I needed to pull the plug for a few seconds to reset my 3410. Same problem as usual - listings were no longer downloading and the Guide itself could not be accessed at all. However, since last Sunday, I've been receiving all my listings nightly from the TR-40 and everything on the 3410 is functioning correctly. The longest I have previously gone without a power cycle using the TR-40 data is three days. So I'm wondering, could it be possible that they are finally getting the bugs out of the guide data? Anyone else in the Chicago market having any luck with OTA guide data?

My setup: (I do not have cable) Antenna feed is split between TR-40 and 3410 antenna input. Output of TR-40 (CH 3) goes to the 3410 cable input. In setup I entered: Cable - yes, cable box - no, and my local zip code. The 3410 host is CH 3 (it found this automatically). All channel numbers in the initial downloaded lineup had to be manually edited from the cable channel number to the OTA number. I also turned off all the cable channels in the lineup (ESPN, CNN, etc.). There are a dozen OTA DTV channels in my lineup set to get listing data as well as CH 3 from the TR-40.

The actual TVGOS support site is gone. They disabled submitting new questions earlier this year - now even the archived answers are gone and the site generates an error.
http://tvgos.custhelp.com/
http://tvgos.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/tvgos.cfg/php/enduser/entry.php

Looks like they moved it here: http://www.rovicorp.com/support/9464.htm

Just sent the following......


Just thought I'd drop you a line and inform you that it STILL DOESN'T WORK!
Not Off Cable, off CBS
Not Off Cable, off ABC (And I should know, I installed it!!)
Not off DTVPAL, Either as Cable, or OTA
Not as you said it would, with the interconnect as SD signals...
LIKE I'VE BEEN TELLING YOU FOR MONTHS AND MONTHS... IT DOESN'T WORK! WHY?
It's not just here where it doesn't work... Check the internet!
Now it USED TO WORK, a few months back, when you folks were TVGuide...
I hear you are now Rovi

http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx

Do you think it will start working with a change of name?

I'm certainly hoping so......

Can I be of assistance? My rates are low....

Jan Janowski
60076

Looks like they moved it here: http://www.rovicorp.com/support/9464.htm
this site does not provide the support for individual customers (plus a list of questions with answers that had previously been provided by them) that the old TVGOS site USED to provide, e.g., last fall...they stopped that kind of support - unreliable though it was - MONTHS ago!

As noted in my previous post, I have switched back to testing the DTVPal with my setup below. After switching to a different zip code than my own, I HAVE now seen a change of lineup (i.e., the cable channels in the lineup from my setup with cable from last week have all been switched off, except HSN), and the order of everything has been changed, but the only listings I have are those that I had from that cable setup...no new listings...

According to the diagnostic menu, the last DL start AND end were both at 1:44 PM today, and when I looked at it somewhat later than that the guide light was off, so I didn't really expect any new listings...

The channel lineup does not contain either PBS 9.1 (the main local PBS station) OR 11.1, our local NBC affiliate...I kind of expected no 9.1, because this had not appeared earlier in ANY of the setups I have tried since June 12, i.e., the DTVPal in any configuration OR with my housemate's cable connected (as describe above during the last week)...(also, my v8 Sony 250, whose TVGOS has otherwise been completely functional, does not get listings into the KQEDDT (9.1) channel in the lineup, which is weirdly consistent with the lack of KQEDDT in various tests I have done with the 3410a)...

veets...I am heartened by your success, though I imagine that you would have gotten the same result, without the bother of all that editing, by joining the DTVPal output to the antenna input...or did you try that?

veets...I am heartened by your success, though I imagine that you would have gotten the same result, without the bother of all that editing, by joining the DTVPal output to the antenna input...or did you try that?

That was how I first connected it but I never tried it that way. Joining the antenna and TR-40 signals created significant noise on CH 3 and I was concerned that the degradation in signal quality would corrupt the TVGOS data. Since I don't have a CH 3 blocker, I used the cable input for the TR-40 which isolated the two signals and cleaned up the noise. It also helped signal strength since joining the signals added another splitter. Of course, the downside is that I got the cable channel lineup instead of the OTA lineup and had to edit the channel numbers. I nearly gave up on this because when I first put the OTA numbers into the lineup they kept disappearing. Eventually they held though.

...Just thought I'd drop you a line and inform you that it STILL DOESN'T WORK!
...
I hear you are now Rovi

http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx
...
Jan Janowski
60076

It probably doesn't matter but according to Rovi (http://digitaltransition.macrovision.com/digtrans.aspx) both Comcast and RCN provide legacy TVGOS in ZIP 60076.

That was how I first connected it but I never tried it that way. Joining the antenna and TR-40 signals created significant noise on CH 3 and I was concerned that the degradation in signal quality would corrupt the TVGOS data. Since I don't have a CH 3 blocker, I used the cable input for the TR-40 which isolated the two signals and cleaned up the noise. It also helped signal strength since joining the signals added another splitter. Of course, the downside is that I got the cable channel lineup instead of the OTA lineup and had to edit the channel numbers. I nearly gave up on this because when I first put the OTA numbers into the lineup they kept disappearing. Eventually they held though.
well, I hope we BOTH end up getting listings one way or another, but I believe that you are the first to really have success using the Pal/tr-40 with the 3410a...so that's great!

(By the way, I don't believe a JOINER (i.e., a splitter used backwards) reduces signal strength...it ADDs two signals, whereas a splitter DIVIDES, so each of the signals is half the strength of the original...

As to noise, I found in various contexts that, if you can see the picture at all (i.e., even if it's very snowy) , the vbi - which carry TVGOS - seem to get through fine...

Looks like they moved it here: http://www.rovicorp.com/support/9464.htm
Unfortunately they're not the same site, the new page is much more generic FAQ type info. The old TVGOS support site you logged in - they had page after page of submitted version specific questions and answers about TVGOS. You could check the status of a submitted question etc. Excel data spread sheets on diagnostics, differences between TVGOS versions, all kinds of useful info. They even had a monthly report on data about the GBA's, that quit being updated last October. Luckily I downloaded most of the spreadsheets I found useful and copied the V7 specific info.

well, I hope we BOTH end up getting listings one way or another, but I believe that you are the first to really have success using the Pal/tr-40 with the 3410a...so that's great!

I'm amazed that it's working. But I am tempering my enthusiasm since it's only been a week. I do believe that if I'm getting good data, others will too - at least for the OTA channels. I'd just like to know what's going on. Is Macrovision/Rovi tweaking the data? Will this continue?

(By the way, I don't believe a JOINER (i.e., a splitter used backwards) reduces signal strength...it ADDs two signals, whereas a splitter DIVIDES, so each of the signals is half the strength of the original...

Any passive splitter/joiner will have insertion loss. The particular one I am using has a 3.5 dB loss which is equivalent to about half the signal. Here are the specs for my joiner. http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=CC7870


As to noise, I found in various contexts that, if you can see the picture at all (i.e., even if it's very snowy) , the vbi - which carry TVGOS - seem to get through fine...

That's good info and I will try it sometime. Right now though, I'm just holding my breath that this setup keeps working. I sure don't want to change anything.

Any passive splitter/joiner will have insertion loss. The particular one I am using has a 3.5 dB loss which is equivalent to about half the signal. to change anything.
veets - I'm 99.9% sure that the 3.5 dB loss is simply the signal strength factor-of-two reduction that you get when you divide a signal in two. (If you divided it into 4 outgoing lines, you would get a 7 dB loss.) Calling it an "insertion" loss, as the site you cite does, is misleading. (There IS, of course, some net power loss due to the device, but it is small compared with this division by 2 effect...)

Conversely, if you JOIN 2 signals, the output is just the sum of those 2 signals, assuming they are from independent sources. (If they were from the SAME source, and completely in phase, presumably you would get a 3.5 dB INCREASE...) In fact, I have previously joined signals from 2 antennas with a 90 degree difference in direction, and I found no noticeable change in the strength of the individual channels I was getting, although depending on where the antennas are with respect to one another, and other issues, you CAN get interference or other effects...)

(I'd be happy to be corrected about this if I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt that is the case on this issue...)

Tony :)

As to noise, I found in various contexts that, if you can see the picture at all (i.e., even if it's very snowy) , the vbi - which carry TVGOS - seem to get through fine...

I think that info is outdated. I experienced getting TVGOS listings just fine even from an analog TVGOS channel that had lots of snow.

But now analog TVGOS channels are gone. Well maybe some cable and satellite are still sending analog TVGOS data. But I highly doubt any of those will have snow on them. So the snow on TVGOS channels pretty much is exclusive to analog TVGOS broadcast over the air. And that's gone.

Anyway, for digital TVGOS channels received by the DTVPal, I've noticed that G*Test stops counting packets as soon as there is just a little break up or freezing in the picture. And it resumes counting packets as soon as the picture gets better.

I just moved the antenna around to see what would happen with a weak signal. Anyone curious should try it themself. It doesn't need to remain a mystery.

update1(
See this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16350260&postcount=5867) message for info on performing a G*Test on the LG LST-3410A (or any TVGOS 7 device, I'd imagine)
)

update2(
I suppose I could be wrong about no more analog TVGOS channels being broadcast with regards to Mexico and Canada. I don't know what's going on there.
)

update3(
I didn't get enough sleep. So I'm not the clearest thinker right now...

I now see you are referring to a weakening of the signal after it is output by the DTVPal (or T3APR-T).

Simplest would be to just delete this message. But I guess I'll leave it. I think there still is some useful info in it. And I can handle getting mud on my face on occasion.
)

Apparently, their support for TVGOS as it exists today is a thing of the past:
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2009/07/macrovision_bec.html
Anyone notice that their site is now completely gone, as well? Too bad we can't sue the bastards! :mad:

http://www.rovicorp.com/support/9391_9461.htm

Same as old site, Not broadcasting on Comast in Hou. as they said their fixing, yet.

I'm glad for you... I'm not receiving any data at all now...
Three set as yours.... DAMN THEM!!

If I turned out work like they did, I'd be fired!!!


One week ago today, I needed to pull the plug for a few seconds to reset my 3410. Same problem as usual - listings were no longer downloading and the Guide itself could not be accessed at all. However, since last Sunday, I've been receiving all my listings nightly from the TR-40 and everything on the 3410 is functioning correctly. The longest I have previously gone without a power cycle using the TR-40 data is three days. So I'm wondering, could it be possible that they are finally getting the bugs out of the guide data? Anyone else in the Chicago market having any luck with OTA guide data?

My setup: (I do not have cable) Antenna feed is split between TR-40 and 3410 antenna input. Output of TR-40 (CH 3) goes to the 3410 cable input. In setup I entered: Cable - yes, cable box - no, and my local zip code. The 3410 host is CH 3 (it found this automatically). All channel numbers in the initial downloaded lineup had to be manually edited from the cable channel number to the OTA number. I also turned off all the cable channels in the lineup (ESPN, CNN, etc.). There are a dozen OTA DTV channels in my lineup set to get listing data as well as CH 3 from the TR-40.

Conversely, if you JOIN 2 signals, the output is just the sum of those 2 signals, assuming they are from independent sources. (If they were from the SAME source, and completely in phase, presumably you would get a 3.5 dB INCREASE...) In fact, I have previously joined signals from 2 antennas with a 90 degree difference in direction, and I found no noticeable change in the strength of the individual channels I was getting, although depending on where the antennas are with respect to one another, and other issues, you CAN get interference or other effects...)
Tony :)

I'm certainly no expert on this topic, but here is a series of posts over in the antenna forum discussing signal loss when joining antennas with a resistive splitter. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5745757#post5745757

Having the signals in phase greatly minimizes the loss, but it still occurs. In my case, there may be some type of phase cancellation occurring since my picture gets snowy when joining the signals. But the main problem for me is a very high electrical noise floor which causes static and banding in the low VHF channels.

Gotta give you credit, veets, I had not tried that combination.... I have now, with experimental unit...

Wife is trying to use her 3 with no host, and VCR+....

All three of hers (Cable Yes, Cablebox No, With DTVPal on CH3 on cable)locked up 3.5 days into our week's vacation.
I'll try and duplicate your success story.....

Gotta give you credit, veets, I had not tried that combination.... I have now, with experimental unit...

Wife is trying to use her 3 with no host, and VCR+....

All three of hers (Cable Yes, Cablebox No, With DTVPal on CH3 on cable)locked up 3.5 days into our week's vacation.
I'll try and duplicate your success story.....

The first night after changing to "cable yes" in setup, the guide light came on and my clock reset (That was after finally reading your post about having to flip the channel number on the TR-40 to get the data started. How did you ever figure that out?). When the 3410 was first turned on the next day, a screen appeared asking which of six channel lineups was correct. None of them were correct since I wanted the OTA channels and not the cable lineup so I just chose the first lineup. I finished with this setup screen and then went into the guide. I found a new lineup with all of the cable channels but none of the OTA channels. This new lineup had replaced the OTA lineup that remained from when the Guide data was coming from OTA CH 32. That's when I went into the channel editor and started changing the cable channel numbers to the OTA channel numbers for the stations I receive (2-1, 5-1, 7-1, etc.). I would nearly have them all entered when suddenly they would revert back to the cable numbers and I had to start all over again. This happened several more times until finally I got all the numbers changed and exited the editor before they had a chance to revert back. The next night I finally got listings for the OTA channels. At that point, I was getting three nights of downloads before the guide light would fail to come on and the guide could no longer be opened, requiring a power-cycle to get things going again. Then for some unknown reason a week ago last Sunday, the lockups stopped and I've been getting listings every night without having to do a reset. So far, it's been eight days with no lockups.

I hope it works for you because you probably have a cranky wife without listings. I know it's done wonders for my marriage.

I went into the channel editor and started changing the cable channel numbers to the OTA channel numbers for the stations I receive (2-1, 5-1, 7-1, etc.). I would nearly have them all entered when suddenly they would revert back to the cable numbers and I had to start all over again. This happened several more times until finally I got all the numbers changed and exited the editor before they had a chance to revert back.

Be careful never to inadvertantly push the BLUE CANCEL button when activating channels in the Channel Editor with the GREEN ON/OFF button. :eek:

Be careful never to inadvertantly push the BLUE CANCEL button when activating channels in the Channel Editor with the GREEN ON/OFF button. :eek:

That just could be what happened.:o Thanks!

I found a new lineup with all of the cable channels but none of the OTA channels. This new lineup had replaced the OTA lineup that remained from when the Guide data was coming from OTA CH 32. That's when I went into the channel editor and started changing the cable channel numbers to the OTA channel numbers for the stations I receive (2-1, 5-1, 7-1, etc.).
veets...when I hooked up my unit with a REAL cable (and no DTVPal), on the first night I got what you described...all the cable channels in the lineup, but on the SECOND night it ADDED all the OTA digital channels at the bottom of the lineup (not very convenient)...but my point is that the TVGOS coming with the cable channel took care of adding the REAL OTA channels into the lineup, but not on the first go round...

I don't know whether this is relevant to what the DTVPal might do, when properly providing the legacy data, but it SHOULD be doing the same as the legacy data coming via cable, since they both get their vbi data from the same legacy stream...

(for what it's worth...) Tony

So I may try to use your kind of hookup to see what I get, because nothing very good is happening with my setup...I get a lineup, but no listings...

I'll give Veets' set-up a try too, since I have everything going into the antenna right now, and all listings have stopped.

BUT - this new set-up is being moved to the basement, where the 3410a will primarily do duty just a digital tuner and time-shifter, for a new TIVO HD will take it's place as our primary DVR. Sorry, guys, it was just time for me to move on, although the 3410a will still be a "hobby" of mine.

Looks like there's a knowlegable 3410A Forum member who may be bailing out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270430483902
'Hard to find. Excellent condition used. Gorgeous quality picture. Authorized Service Center firmware updated and works great. Nice set of Component Cable will be included. Includes DVR Unit, remote, manual, IR cable box repeater and component cable. Some of these items are not in the picture but will be included in the shipment. Guide Service works fine in available areas. Huge thread available and recommended at AVS Forum site.

Local pick up is available. S&H will be waived for local pickup. Unit sold as is. No returns. Paypal preferred. Payment due upon winning auction. Please email any questions prior to bidding. All bids are binding.'

veets...when I hooked up my unit with a REAL cable (and no DTVPal), on the first night I got what you described...all the cable channels in the lineup, but on the SECOND night it ADDED all the OTA digital channels at the bottom of the lineup (not very convenient)...but my point is that the TVGOS coming with the cable channel took care of adding the REAL OTA channels into the lineup, but not on the first go round...

That sure would have saved me a lot of editing. I never understood why there were no OTA channels in the lineup, but figured this was normal when selecting cable-yes. And I've checked several times in the editor and they aren't there. Maybe the TVGOS data is incomplete, or perhaps there is some variable in my setup causing me not to get the OTA channels.

Hey Folks,

I can inform you all that COMCAST MoCo, Maryland is providing ANALOG TVGOS data on channel 29 (CBS from Wash, DC) low res service. I am hooked up as Real Zip, Cable = Yes, Box = No. I have to go through now and delete the extra channels, but that will have to wait. No time right now.

Hooked it up Monday and cleared the guide. Yesterday evening, I was asked to pick from 4 lineups, and tonight, for the first time since January, I have listings - for all 8 days.

It did lock up while I was poking around, but there must be 125 channels in there, including high tier ones that I can not even get without a box. I have data for all of them. After the purge process, we will see about stability. I really only want the OTA channels for time shifting on the 3410.

Looks like I will be good to get the OTA by changing the channel number to the OTA HD channel number. We will see... f that does not work, then I can use the QAM channels from the cable, The problem there is that COMCAST moves them around about once a week.

At last some good news!

Hey Folks,

I can inform you all that COMCAST MoCo, Maryland is providing ANALOG TVGOS data on channel 29 (CBS from Wash, DC) low res service. I am hooked up as Real Zip, Cable = Yes, Box = No. I have to go through now and delete the extra channels, but that will have to wait. No time right now.

Hooked it up Monday and cleared the guide. Yesterday evening, I was asked to pick from 4 lineups, and tonight, for the first time since January, I have listings - for all 8 days.


Are you sure?

As far as I know analog TVGOS is never able to give you a full 8 days of listings in 24 hours.

You get 3 days at most each day. (I've seen some mention getting 4 days a day..., not sure about that one). And it takes 3 hours for the listings to come in. And there will be 4 identical transmissions of those 3 hour listings each day.

It takes 6 days to get a full 8 days of listings.


1st day: DAY1, DAY2, DAY8
2nd day: DAY1, DAY2, DAY7, DAY8
3rd day: DAY1, DAY2, DAY6, DAY7, DAY8
4th day: DAY1, DAY2, DAY5, DAY6, DAY7, DAY8
5th day: DAY1, DAY2, DAY4, DAY5, DAY6, DAY7, DAY8
6th day: DAY1, DAY2, DAY3, DAY4, DAY5, DAY6, DAY7, DAY8


That grid info came from this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=6302460) 2005 message in a "TV Guide On Screen" discussion forum.

Some TVGOS devices have a special button to jump ahead 24 hours at a time while you are viewing the TV Guide grid. I think it is the >>| button that normally jumps to the next chapter. My Panasonic DMR-EH75V (DVD/Hard Drive/VHS) with analog TVGOS 9 doesn't support that. So I have to enter 24 and then press right arrow to advance 24 hours ahead.

Anyway, to know which days in the listings I have, and don't have, I keep entering 24 and pressing right arrow. Enter 24 with my left thumb, press right arrow with my right thumb.

Digital TVGOS on the other hand apparently takes just 30 minutes to get all 8 days of listings.

Maybe my info is no longer perfectly correct, as I've not looked at it closely recently. But I'm pretty confident about the "analog TVGOS can't fill in in 24 hours". Maybe you are indeed experiencing something new and different. Did you verify each and every day in the listings?

(it is good that you are indeed seeing some success, of course :))

update1(
I found info on the 4 day transmission method of analog TVGOS.


The guide populates like this:

M T W T F S S M T W T F S S
Day 1 M T F M
Day 2 T W f S m T
Day 3 W T f s S m t W
Day 4 T F s s M t w T
Day 5 F S s m T w t F
Day 6 S S m t W t f S
Day 7 S M t w T f s S

Uppercase letters shown across each row represent NEW data.
Lowercase letters shown across each row represent old data.
UPDATE 1/23/07: Added Day 5 to the progression based on owner submissions. This means that the guide will be full after just 3 days (not [6] days as it was when the progression included days 1,2, and 8).


That's from http://www.spiffspace.com/sonydvr.html which I just found again by googling TVGOS uppercase lowercase.

That [6] is my change. They had put 8 for some reason.

I imagine the purpose of showing Day 4 through Day 7 is to show how the listings get updated throughout the remainder of the week.
)

update2(
In this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16355115) message I mention how full the transmission schedule is.

And in http://www.spiffspace.com/TVGOS_Training_Manual.pdf on page 5 and 34 it mentions that the different transmissions are identical (for a given day).

On page 13 it says "it will take up to 6 days to establish a full 8-day program guide. However, once established, the full eight days will always be loaded".

On page 30 you can see a screenshot with a 2006 date and TVGOS version 8. (just mentioned to give a reference for when they were still referring to it taking 6 days to fill in the listings).
)

update3(
So yesterday I reset my TVGOS device and today I got 4 days of listings in. The days that filled in fit the pattern above which has the upper and lower case letters.

Since this is an LG LST-3410A thread I feel out of place mentioning what the procedure was to do that reset. But anyway, the Panasonic manual mentions a reset procedure where you press the channel up & down buttons on the front of the unit for 5 seconds. This just clears the TV Guide settings without harming the recordings on the hard drive.

I did search the LG LST-3410A manual just now for the word reset. But that found nothing. So I don't know if the 3410A has an equivalent TVGOS reset.
)

"The software version of the TV Guide application ( 7.1.20) on your DVR, is not able to use the digital TVGOS data. Your device can only use the analog TVGOS data, which is no longer available due to the digital transition. You will need to get a converter box to convert the digital data back to analog since you are set up OTA. This will allow your TV Guide to continue to work, but you will not be able to view the digital channels in the TV Guide, you will only be able to view the analog channels coming from the converter box. You can still view your digital channels, you will just need to switch between the converter box (which is set up like a cable box) and the antenna.

To our knowledge, EchoStar and Artec are the only companies that manufactures a box that passes our data. This is not a recommendation or endorsement of this product."

"The software version of the TV Guide application ( 7.1.20) on your DVR, is not able to use the digital TVGOS data. Your device can only use the analog TVGOS data, which is no longer available due to the digital transition. You will need to get a converter box to convert the digital data back to analog since you are set up OTA. This will allow your TV Guide to continue to work, but you will not be able to view the digital channels in the TV Guide, you will only be able to view the analog channels coming from the converter box. You can still view your digital channels, you will just need to switch between the converter box (which is set up like a cable box) and the antenna.

To our knowledge, EchoStar and Artec are the only companies that manufactures a box that passes our data. This is not a recommendation or endorsement of this product."
well, I think they don't know what they are talking about...partly because this has been true seemingly forever, but more specifically because we KNOW that it is the digital TVGOS legacy stream that these converter boxes use to produce the analog VBI data AND it is this SAME stream that the CABLE providers are converting for their analog cable channels to carry (where they choose to do so), and people (including me) have found that these CABLE analog streams DO carry the data for local OTA digital channels...and where does this data come from?...the legacy TVGOS data stream.

AND I believe that I have demonstrated with my Sony 250 that the DTVPal's output (in TVGOS mode) DOES include the data for local OTA digital channels, which the digital unit will pick up if you use your REAL zip code in THAT digital unit. Unfortunately, as before, I have had no success with my 3410a in getting listings (although I have had partial success getting the local channel lineup).

just my opinion of what TVGOS people tell us - Tony :)

with regard to further tests with my 3410a...

I tried veets setup, with the DTVPal output going to the 3410a's cable input...the 3410a locked onto channel 3 as the host channel (as it has done with my other tests using the Pal output) AND I got a channel lineup within a day that seemed more complete than I had gotten with the Pal output joined to the antenna input, BUT - with regard to actually getting listings, the result was the same...nada! :(

I also found that something happened with regard to my unit when I did a 6-sec unplug reboot after 2 days with the cable setup...the unit lost the clock, and didn't seem to find the time as it usually did when this happened, so I set it manually, BUT for at least 24 hours after that the guide light was on CONTINUOUSLY, as far as I can tell...

so I decided to switch back to my standard configuration (Pal output joined with the antenna signal)...so far the unit has again found channel 3 as its host channel, but I am a bit worried that it may still be in that continuously-on mode...we'll see. Tony

(This is ironic, because my experience with this setup BEFORE is that the unit finds 3 as the host channel, gets a partial lineup, and then basically rejects anything else, often with the guide light going ON at the time of a normal download, but staying on only for a few seconds OR switching on and off several times, then remaining off...as though it is testing, but rejecting whatever it is seeing....but even when the unit is behaving like this, tuning it to channel 3, then going to the diagnostic screens, shows that A and B packets are being seen at the appropriate times...)

kev4321,

I thought he data came in in the day sequence you mentioned, but I can only tell you what happened. Before I changed the connection on Monday, I had no listings for any channel. By yesterday, I had complete listings for all channels for 8 days.

Surprised me too. Anyhow, it's working. That's what counts.

Hey Folks,

I can inform you all that COMCAST MoCo, Maryland is providing ANALOG TVGOS data on channel 29 (CBS from Wash, DC) low res service. I am hooked up as Real Zip, Cable = Yes, Box = No. I have to go through now and delete the extra channels, but that will have to wait. No time right now.

Hooked it up Monday and cleared the guide. Yesterday evening, I was asked to pick from 4 lineups, and tonight, for the first time since January, I have listings - for all 8 days.

At last some good news!


Congrats Albertso!!!

We should all get so lucky! Maybe we will all finally get our listings back. I, for one, am still hopeful. I am also on Comcast here in GBA 46/West Palm Beach, FL (But I bought a TIVO HD just in case!)

A couple questions please??

1) When you said "cleared the guide," what exactly did you do to accomplish this? I have gotten no VBI packets in several days on either of my version 7 units. Like you, I had no listings since the end of January. Maybe clearing the guide will do the trick?

2) What GBA are you in according to Macrovision? I keep thinking that they may be going in GBA order in restoring listings?

3) When you say "low res" are you speaking of analog basic cable through your Comcast service?



Anyway, thanks for your time and Congrats again!!!!
Robin

kev4321,

I thought he data came in in the day sequence you mentioned, but I can only tell you what happened. Before I changed the connection on Monday, I had no listings for any channel. By yesterday, I had complete listings for all channels for 8 days.

Surprised me too. Anyhow, it's working. That's what counts.

I have a better idea what might have happened now.


Hooked it up Monday and cleared the guide. Yesterday evening, I was asked to pick from 4 lineups, and tonight, for the first time since January, I have listings - for all 8 days.


I suspect that some of the downloads occurred even before you were asked to choose a lineup. For me when it asks to choose a lineup it already has one selected.Sometimes it has selected AT&T U-Verse, other times Comcast Cable. Wonder what makes it decide. Anyway the must carry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Must-carry) channels are common between all lineups, in my experience. Must carry chans are basically the local over the air chans. But not the non .1 chans as it is based on the analog chans when those still existed.

So I think it will download guide data for all channels in the lineup it is presently set to. But this means if the lineup you choose is slightly different then you will only have guide data for the channels that both lineups have in common.

With that in mind, and assuming you chose a lineup that's different from what was selected, it might be a good idea to scroll down in the listings past the must carry channels before you jump ahead in 24 hour increments verifying that you have listings for each day. (Just relative to checking the initial filling in of the guide data, of course).

DLID = Download Identifier. DLID 70 = Channel listings

Times for DLID 70 (in UTC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTC)):

1st(09:31 to 12:34) 2nd(13:41 to 16:44) 3rd(16:46 to 19:49) 4th(20:46 to 23:49)
(those times are for San Francisco, CA. But they haven't been adjusted for the Pacific timezone)

Minimum duration for 3 consecutive days worth of listing transmissions:
end_of(day3_1st) - start_of(day1_4th)

1/03/01 12:34 - 1/01/01 20:46 = 1d15h48m
Maximum duration for 3 consecutive days worth of listing transmissions:
end_of(day3_4th) - start_of(day1_1st)

1/03/01 23:49 - 1/01/01 09:31 = 2d14h18m

The following spoiler shows those calculations in small steps. (button needs Javascript enabled)



1/03/01 12:34 - 1/01/01 20:46 = 1d15h48m

is shown in the following:

1/01/01 20:46 + 00:14 = 1/01/01 21:00
1/01/01 21:00 + 03:00 = 1/02/01 00:00
1/02/01 00:00 + 24:00 = 1/03/01 00:00
1/03/01 00:00 + 12:34 = 1/03/01 12:34
-----
39:48 - 24:00 = 15:48

1/03/01 23:49 - 1/01/01 09:31 = 2d14h18m

is shown in the following:

1/01/01 09:31 + 00:29 = 1/01/01 10:00
1/01/01 10:00 + 14:00 = 1/02/01 00:00
1/02/01 00:00 + 24:00 = 1/03/01 00:00
1/03/01 00:00 + 23:49 = 1/03/01 23:49
-----
61:78 = 62:18
62 - 48 = 14h
48 / 24 = 2d



The 4 "DLID 70" times are from this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16355115) message. Before doing these calculations I verified that the download schedule is still the same. It is.

This current message is a follow on to this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=16872646&postcount=6359) message I posted 2 days ago in this thread where I showed someone's illustration of how 8 days of analog TVGOS listings are downloaded in 3 days.

...
so I decided to switch back to my standard configuration (Pal output joined with the antenna signal)...so far the unit has again found channel 3 as its host channel, but I am a bit worried that it may still be in that continuously-on mode...we'll see. Tony
...

well, after I returned to my "standard" setup with the Pal (cf. link below) yesterday, by late evening, I had a "standard" OTA channel lineup, with all the cable channels turned off (except - as I have noted before - that there was no OTA KQEDDT channel 9.1, the main PBS station locally).

By late evening, however, the unit had returned to the odd behavior noted before, i.e., when the time came for a download as per schedule, the guide light would turn on briefly (a few seconds), and then turn off; OR, in one case near midnight (give or take an hour), it turned on for 7 or 8 seconds at a time THREE times, spaced by 0.5 to 1 minute, then stayed off. When I checked earlier this AM, in the middle of a 3-hour listings download period, the guide light was off...

I have no idea what this behavior means, other than the unit expressing a disinterest in the packets it is seeing, but in any case, the result is the same as before - including for my 2 other tries at differing Pal setups - no listings!

Has anyone else seen this turn-on-briefly/turn-off behavior?

Robin,

Your Questions:

1. Cleared the guide - Standard procedure using 653214741.

2. GBA Don't know the number. Washington, DC is the location.

3. The non-HD channel for CBS is 29 on our COMCAST cable. It is in the "basic" cable service. The OTA packets that I tried to use the PAL on are in the HD OTA version of the same channel (9.1).

kev,

It certainly is possible that it had downloaded data during the 1 day before it asked for a lineup choice.

Bottom line, it is working here in DC.

Hope this helps.

THANKS Albertso!
Robin

avnstf: Has anyone else seen this turn-on-briefly/turn-off behavior?

I have been wanting to mention this weird thing about my 3410:
My guide light is ALWAYS on. It never goes off. The TVGOS shows all the stations I have set with half hour increments saying "No Listing". So, I can record half hour segments in the correct local time for the stations I have set. One hour means two 30 min. segments. There is NO program info other than the station, time and the small preview window. So, with some notes, I know what I have. I do that now as well as the manual setting and lenghts for longer recordings. It's a livable workaround.

If it's good enough for your needs it's at least stable and allows for timer recordings.

If you re-ran TVGOS set-up with your real ZIP, or if necessary the 00000 reset ZIP and then the next day with your real ZIP, the GUIDE and 'No Listings' situation would change and you'd once again be on the good ol' 3410A TVGOS merry-go-round hoping to grab that somewhat illusive but occasionally available Gold Ring.

My guide light is ALWAYS on. It never goes off.

My experience with this situation is when there is the total absence of tvgos data being presented to the selected input.

My experience with this situation is when there is the total absence of tvgos data being presented to the selected input.
As noted, my unit presently has the guide light going on not at all (or for just a few seconds at a time), but just before that, it was on all the time, for perhaps 24 hours...

in BOTH cases, A and B packets were reaching my 3410a, according to the diagnostics screens...go figure!

(and in both case, no listings, although I DO have an OTA channel lineup...)

Does someone that owns a LST-3410A know if it will record the stream via firewire from a comcast cable box?

Thanks

Does someone that owns a LST-3410A know if it will record the stream via firewire from a comcast cable box?
Thanks
to my knowledge, it won't...as far as I know, it will only accept a stream from a box that it CONTROLS, such as a JVC D-VHS recorder, such as a 30K or a 40K...

and, by the way, such a recorder (which apparently you can now obtain refurbished for about $150) will accept a firewire stream from a Comcast box, but you cannot SCHEDULE the recording...you have to press a button to start it, and it will record whatever is coming over the firewire - I'm not sure about stopping it...presumably if you hit stop OR if it reaches the end of a tape, it will stop...not very convenient

Looks like there's a knowlegable 3410A Forum member who may be bailing out:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=270430483902
'Hard to find. Excellent condition used. Gorgeous quality picture. Authorized Service Center firmware updated and works great. Nice set of Component Cable will be included. Includes DVR Unit, remote, manual, IR cable box repeater and component cable. Some of these items are not in the picture but will be included in the shipment. Guide Service works fine in available areas. Huge thread available and recommended at AVS Forum site.

Local pick up is available. S&H will be waived for local pickup. Unit sold as is. No returns. Paypal preferred. Payment due upon winning auction. Please email any questions prior to bidding. All bids are binding.'

It didn't sell. He's trying again with $280 as the starting bid.

to my knowledge, it won't...as far as I know, it will only accept a stream from a box that it CONTROLS, such as a JVC D-VHS recorder, such as a 30K or a 40K...

and, by the way, such a recorder (which apparently you can now obtain refurbished for about $150) will accept a firewire stream from a Comcast box, but you cannot SCHEDULE the recording...you have to press a button to start it, and it will record whatever is coming over the firewire - I'm not sure about stopping it...presumably if you hit stop OR if it reaches the end of a tape, it will stop...not very convenient

Bummer............... I was hoping it would as the cable company's it seems have disabled recording the stream via a computer.:(

I have a JVC 40k and it does record from the cable box via firwire. It will record live as well as playback it you have a DVR. Trouble is you are locked to the tape, no way to get the stream out. I was hoping if the cable box would record to the D-VHS recorders it would to the LG DVR as well and then you could capture the stream to your computer to do with as you please.

Thanks

How about this, can you record the stream from a DVHS (they will record from the cable) with the LG? Also can you capture the stream from the LG on a computer (PC or Mac)?

I've got 2 of four units with listings... 2 without...
I'm going to see where I'm getting host from tomorrow night, as I've been waylaid for a few days.... and have not been able to do tests...

How about this, can you record the stream from a DVHS (they will record from the cable) with the LG? Also can you capture the stream from the LG on a computer (PC or Mac)?

actually, I wrote a response on this subject after seeing your earlier post, but evidently I didn't click on the submit reply button...

I was going to suggest exactly that, because the LG works over firewire in both directions with the JVC 30k or 40k...it can download a recording to the JVC AND it can upload FROM it, and of course the LG can EDIT a recording once it is in its hard drive...

I use the LG for recording from OTA, and usually I just watch it and delete it...but if it's a high-value program, i.e., one I want to archive, I edit it with the LG, and THEN I download it to tape...:)

But, of course, there's no way to get the recording OUT of the LG/JVC duo.

Aside from the high quality of the LG video itself, this is its bonus value, you can save high-def recordings to the JVC in their original digital form and later play the back through the LG (without again uploading them, though that's an option, too - as I say - for editing...)

The only caution I would mention is that, if the original recording is to JVC tape, and it isn't good high-def, the LG can choke on it...I learned this because I ORIGINALLY got the JVC to be able to schedule recordings of programs received by my Samsung 165 receiver, which is a unit that can ALSO control the JVC. But if the program material saved to tape via the JVC was low quality, my LG would not accept it for uploading, at least that is my memory...and as you may know, sometimes Comcast program material - though nominally high-def - is sometimes just medium-def, so there isn't a guarantee that it would work with JVC recordings from a Comcast box...

But, of course, there's no way to get the recording OUT of the LG/JVC duo.


I can record to and from my JVC 30k using a Mac. There's a whole thread on it in the Mac section. Also, if you have a Mac and Comcast has the firewire enabled, you would be able to record live onto a Mac.

I think I was able to go from the Mac to the 3410a but not vice-versa. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that I wasn't able to do it.

I can record to and from my JVC 30k using a Mac. There's a whole thread on it in the Mac section. Also, if you have a Mac and Comcast has the firewire enabled, you would be able to record live onto a Mac.




Up till about 2 or 3 months ago I could record Comcast content with my Mac as well but it will not find the Comcast STB any longer:mad::(:confused::eek:

I was going to suggest exactly that, because the LG works over firewire in both directions with the JVC 30k or 40k...it can download a recording to the JVC AND it can upload FROM it, and of course the LG can EDIT a recording once it is in its hard drive...



So I am locked to the JVC 40k and LG. What I was hoping was to be able to record content from the Comcast STB to my JVC 40k and then dump that to the LG (unless the LG will record from the Comcast STB and I haven't heard if it will or not) and then to my PC or Mac to edit and burn to DVD in AVCHD format.

But, you are saying that can't be done? That the LG will not stream to a PC or Mac via firewire?

But, you are saying that can't be done? That the LG will not stream to a PC or Mac via firewire?
I don't think so, but I'd be happy to be corrected about that...

I'll try to remember to check exactly what the LG seems to be looking for when you choose the "dub" option on a recording...I guess it's a matter of what it recognizes to be available when it want to "dub" (or whatever that option is that you see what a particular recording is highlighted)...

I sent this to the Macrovision Tech, to my old, past email thread ce_customer_support@macrovision.com


Dear Tech support,

Thanks for reply in this e-mail, please help.

Comcast anolog in Houston, as you stated TVGOS was being fixed, isn't working/broadcasting.

The Artec and DVT Pal boxes, for local digital supporting TVGOS, aren't working on LGs, either.

Please read this forum thread, and reply

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=337424
JanJ and Avnstf are very smart & trying very hard to get our LG TVGOS working

..

I sent this to the Macrovision Tech, to my old, past email thread ce_customer_support@macrovision.com


Dear Tech support,

Thanks for reply in this e-mail, please help.

Comcast anolog in Houston, as you stated TVGOS was being fixed, isn't working/broadcasting.

The Artec and DVT Pal boxes, for local digital supporting TVGOS, aren't working, either.

Please read this forum thread, and reply

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=337424
JanJ and Avnstf are very smart & trying very hard to get our LG TVGOS working

..

There is someone in Houston who was able to use the Artec to recover a grid on his OTA only Sony DHG DVR. See his posts about it starting here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16907062#post16907062). The Artec was even easier to use than the DTVPal, because you don't have to mess with Scientific Atlanta codes or anything. He just basically tuned it to his OTA host channel, and then put it in TVGOS mode, and the data started going.

If the TVGOS data isn't getting through Comcast, it sounds like a problem on their end, since it apparently works OTA.

Mark

There is someone in Houston who was able to use the Artec to recover a grid on his OTA only Sony DHG DVR. See his posts about it starting here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16907062#post16907062). The Artec was even easier to use than the DTVPal, because you don't have to mess with Scientific Atlanta codes or anything. He just basically tuned it to his OTA host channel, and then put it in TVGOS mode, and the data started going.
If the TVGOS data isn't getting through Comcast, it sounds like a problem on their end, since it apparently works OTA.
Mark

Thanks for new thread,

I had tried/figured out the Artec set up he used, in my posts-he may have read, for last 3 months, and got a 3 station schedual and no data.

Artecs and PALs seem to work better on other brands of dvrs than on our loved LG 3410As.

Thinking of getting a computor HDVR box, $70 up, as my monitor is my 56" Samsung DLP and can record about 1000 gigs , if interested check this site- http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/comparetuners.html

Still readig this thread with no working set up for me.

Update on the 2 different configurations I'm trying to get to work.
1. single unit. Cable Yes, Cablebox No. Cable input has DTVPAL channel 3 only
Still needing power cycles every 3 days... However, I've received 2 Channel Lists (about 6 or more) but when any list is selected, it locks up....
Until power cycled... Then it forgot the channel lists and starts searching again.... No Listings. VCR+ works only until TVG locks up....

2. Three Units Cable Yes, Cablebox No. DTVPal RF Channel 3 (Different DTVPAL unit than #1 above) DTVPAL mixed into cable feed. 2 of 3 get TVG data now and then.. (not continuous data-data on alternate days) All three need to be power cycled every 3 days, and when power cycled, 50/50 chance that TVG will be dropped... TVG recordings work as long as TVG data is there on the day of the scheduled recording... Since this is pot luck, Wife uses VCR+ in conjunction with TVG ...... One never gets TVG data. NONE ever give Channel Lists...

Comcast analog cable has TVG on 2 channels: CBS Channel 2-0, and ABC Channel 7-0.
CBS has 4 lines of TVG data in VBI. ABC has only one line of TVG in VBI --- I know, I installed it! Neither 2-0, 7-0 or DTVPAL on 3-0 work!

TVG, Macrovision, ________, they all are not sending good data... They USED TO....

It didn't sell. He's trying again with $280 as the starting bid.

Sniped for $280!
http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=270434415815

What is the newest firmware version of the 3410? These units had to be sent to the shop for firmware updates, is that correct?

What is the newest firmware version of the 3410? These units had to be sent to the shop for firmware updates, is that correct?

Jan or Tony will know
I have last version produced, with no better working TVGOS than older versions, don't think they updated tvgos problems.

not concerned with what will work and what will not, there will be no more releases so i don't think much is going to change as far as what will or will not work. I just purchased one from somebody and just wanted to know if it has the last firmware version that was released.

AFAIK, MP1.17 was the last released version or update. 1.14 and 1.15 were common on shipped boxes.

Be aware that the LG firmware and upgrade procedure is completely separate from a TVGOS firmware upgrade. The first being quite possible for the technically savvy and the latter never being performed in the field AFAIK. Both procedures are documented in the service manual (http://136.166.4.200/contents/STB/LST-3410A/LST-3410A%20Service%20Manual.pdf).

Thanks, the manual may come in handy.

I am getting the message on the screen "DVI Blocked". What is that about? I didn't see anything about this in the user manual (didn't check the service manual yet).

What is the newest firmware version of the 3410? These units had to be sent to the shop for firmware updates, is that correct?

The Last version of firmware for 3410 was V1.17. Bugfixes over V1.15.

This has nothing to do with TVG, Though.
Information on how to Load TVG firmware is available, but I've never seen any TVG files..... However, if you read read between the lines, I'd be willing to say that not all the information of the TVG upgrade is in fact in the documents we've seen...

Whereas upgrade of 3410a Firmware can be done with serial connect, communications program and a single binary file, Upgrade of TVG Gate Array would appear to be done with a wierd serial and Parallel port interconnect, custom Gate array programming software, and data files..... None of which I've ever heard of being released outside the Factory (LG)... and in fact, the one time I got someone to talk about it, he said that they
didn't know if the "Depot" had the capability of reloading TVG..... He thought they just "boardswapped".

There was a US based LG facility in Alablama ( I Believe Huntsville) that used to do repairs and upgrades, but that is long since disappeared... (contacts tell me).

I've been told repeatedly There is also a room somewhere in Chicagoland with a large amount of dead units in it... One contact who had his die, mentioned he got spare parts from there...
I've tried repeatedly to take a few off their hands, un-successfullly.

The product has some good points, and some bad points.... But it is truely sad that they never opened up TVG to be upgraded....
In my conversations (rants) to TVG and Macrovision folks, They keep claiming it's LG's fault (Poor Hardware Design).... and I kept responding that it's bad Code, as this USED TO WORK.... If you upgrade the code for others, why not upgrade the code for TVG?

If they would have given me the code and software to upgrade TVG, I would have tried it....

Thanks, the manual may come in handy.

I am getting the message on the screen "DVI Blocked". What is that about? I didn't see anything about this in the user manual (didn't check the service manual yet).

Willing to bet The message DVI BLocked is not coming from the 3410a.... It's coming from your display... I'll bet you are using a DVI/HDMI Cable, right?

Willing to bet The message DVI BLocked is not coming from the 3410a.... It's coming from your display... I'll bet you are using a DVI/HDMI Cable, right?

Yep, your going to say what I was thinking HDCP (Bas&#$%S). Since this unit only outputs 1080i I am loosing nothing by using component am I?

Yep, your going to say what I was thinking HDCP (Bas&#$%S). Since this unit only outputs 1080i I am loosing nothing by using component am I?

Yes your getting same resoultion, using 3 componet +2-sound rgb cables.

I've tried conversion cables on 3410 & my computor, remember there are 3-4 dvi style conectors = dvi - dvi-i - dvi+i.
I've had no luck on mine, & wasn't worth the trouble, so I just use componet and my TVs rgb monitor input.

Yes your getting same resoultion, using 3 componet +2-sound rgb cables.

I've tried conversion cables on 3410 & my computor, dvi - dvi-i - dvi+i, and had no luck.
hm...I don't get it...the unit is supposed to be HDCP compliant, though I never used my Sony HD CRT's dvi cable with the 3410a because it gave me a crappy picture, which it only recent occurred to me might have been due to a defective dvi cable, or something like that...

I haven't been active on this thread for the last couple of weeks, because I've been upgrading my system to a Pioneer plasma with an Onkyo receiver and speakers, which do GREAT on the hdmi output from my Sony 250 AND from a blu-ray player, which was another reason I wanted to upgrade things, because my Sony only has 3 1080i inputs and, of course, NO 1080p...

Anyway, my 3410a is now, like, halfway set up...I have it going with component to the receiver - which serves as my switching unit, to minimize difficulties when I'm trying to set up (again) so my one learning remote works everything...i.e., the TV plus typically 4 units, plus now the receiver...

To keep things simple, I have first tried letting the Onkyo receiver upconvert the 3410a output to 1080p, so that it can flow via the same hdmi cable to the TV that everything else is going through (which is also very easy with this TV, since there is an hdmi input on the SIDE of the flat panel, in the very direction where I am setting up the receiver on its own little stand, so that all the cables and speaker wires are easily accessible without trying to reach around the back of a tv stand - which in any case doesn't have ROOM for this big receiver, especially considering that it runs pretty hot).

However, having the receiver do this upconversion is not the best choice, even according to the Onkyo manual, which recommends that anything going to the receiver via component should be passed to the TV via component, because the TV normally does a better job on deinterlacing - so that it can show on the 1080p TV - than the receiver. However, I would prefer NOT having ANY cables going to the BACK of my new TV, because that just complicates things, given that - in my smallish viewing room - the flat-panel TV is pushed pretty far into a corner, and it could be a mess if I have to change things once I get set up.

So, and here's the irony in view of the current discussion in this thread, a friend who is more knowledgeable than I am about such things, told me an hour ago that what I really need is an hdmi/dvi cable...WHICH I just happen to have already gotten from a recent order because I wanted to try to figure out why I was getting such poor video on my OLD TV...

But, since I HAVE such a cable, I told my friend I'd try it with the 3410a as part of my new system, because it would DEFINITELY simplify things, both avoiding that cable going to the back of the flat panel AND avoiding having to add a thing in my remote for each unit that ALSO sets the TV input every time I change units. (Units being the Sony, the LG, the blu-ray (which itself upconverts regular dvds to 1080p just fine), plus whatever unit I get - most probably a Tivo HD - to make up for using the LG somewhat less because of the TVGOS problem AND because, in any case, my 3-person household needs at least one more recording/receiver unit, which we HAD for a while because of getting Comcast with a high-def recorder, but which we've discontinued because the 100+ bucks a month just seems ridiculous for the benefit (whereas the Tivo listings run 10 bucks a month - if purchased a year at a time).

But you guys are telling me that I CANNOT connect the LG digitally to a newer TV, or something like that, even though it is supposed to be HDCP compliant???

OUCH!!! :confused:

Thanks, the manual may come in handy.

I am getting the message on the screen "DVI Blocked". What is that about? I didn't see anything about this in the user manual (didn't check the service manual yet).

Using a DVI to HDMI cable to feed my Sony Bravia at 1080i never gave me any problems. I also ran at 720p for a while. I boxed up the LST for now since I have no source for V7 guide and I got tired of doing a reset daily.

Using a DVI to HDMI cable to feed my Sony Bravia at 1080i never gave me any problems. I also ran at 720p for a while. I boxed up the LST for now since I have no source for V7 guide and I got tired of doing a reset daily.
well, I just tried to connect my LG to my new Pioneer plasma using that kind of cable and I, TOO, got a DVI blocked message bouncing around on the screen...

:mad::mad:

These are both HDCP compliant units...they ought to work together...and my system would be substantially simpler it I didn't have to run a component cable behind the TV AND have to switch both the receiver AND the TV when I went to the LG...(all my other stuff is and will be units with hdmi outputs)...

Willing to bet The message DVI BLocked is not coming from the 3410a.... It's coming from your display... I'll bet you are using a DVI/HDMI Cable, right?

Jan - any idea why this doesn't work (other than pure stupidity)??? Tony

Did you guys make sure the 3410a's are outputting in 720p or 1080i? They might just be sending junk out the DVI if you aren't.

Did you guys make sure the 3410a's are outputting in 720p or 1080i? They might just be sending junk out the DVI if you aren't.
yes..my unit's set to 1080i

Did you guys make sure the 3410a's are outputting in 720p or 1080i? They might just be sending junk out the DVI if you aren't.

Yes it was set to 1080i and since the message displayed OK (DVI Blocked) it was not an issue of incompatibility it was an issue of something blocking a perfectly working display signal.

Jan - any idea why this doesn't work (other than pure stupidity)??? Tony

HDMI/DVI patch cables

FYI Remember there are 3-4 dvi style conectors/compatilabltys = dvi - dvi-i - dvi+i.

About 3 years ago - I had no luck, buying one DVI compatible DVI-I/HDMI cable for my units (don't think the newer +I will plug into a -I, and think the 3410 is -I).

It wasn't worth the trouble to keep testing/buying cables, and I can't remember if all the DVI cable connectors passed Sound with HighDef. anyway. Never tried 720p.

I just use componet on 3410 and my TVs rgb monitor input for computer.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HDMI/DVI patch cables

FYI Remember there are 3-4 dvi style conectors/compatilabltys = dvi - dvi-i - dvi+i.

About 3 years ago - I had no luck, buying one DVI compatible DVI-I/HDMI cable for my units (don't think the newer +I will plug into a -I, and think the 3410 is -I).

Given that the TV is saying "DVI blocked", and it DID show a picture (just SD, I think, with that message bouncing around the screen), so I presume the picture is getting through...

(Although I was puzzled that there was no sound from the receiver, which is odd, since that goes through an optical cable from the 3410a...)

Given that the TV is saying "DVI blocked", and it DID show a picture (just SD, I think, with that message bouncing around the screen), so I presume the picture is getting through...(Although I was puzzled that there was no sound from the receiver, which is odd, since that goes through an optical cable from the 3410a...)

I never got DVI blocked or anything. was 3 years ago, Go Figure - name of my old boat.

Someone smart , please test/review my TVGOS idea.

I have noticed the channel 3 from Artec/PAL is very weak/corrupt /fuzzy, while their RCA, with TVGOS support, on or off, is a perfect 480.

The Vidio out cables, from TVGOS boxes, are clear as as a bell!

They claim RCA out will only work with their suddjested - cable box only, g-link/fake zip set up/box mfg. NOT.

Can you try a patching/cable, from PALs Yellow/WR RCA output, to 3410s coax cable input, cable yes/box no----??? (this idea is way over my head)

For the 3rd time in as many weeks...

The "experimental DVR" with OTA in OTA, and DTVPAL into cable, set for Cable yes, Cablebox no....

Showed me a list of ~6 different channel lists.... and the MOMENT that I arrow down from the first one list to the second........

TVG locks up.....

Thanks Macrovision, or whatever your name is this week...

IT USED TO WORK!!!

Showed me a list of ~6 different channel lists.... and the MOMENT that I arrow down from the first one list to the second........

TVG locks up.....

Jan,

I started having this same 'new' lockup issue a couple of years ago when I was working with Tony. I would get to the point of selecting a lineup (~ 3 - 4) choices. Then like you, experience instant lockup when arrowing down thus requiring a new start. Maddening!

I never reported on it because I thought it was unique to me.

No, it's happening on one system here.... the other 3 units are configured same, but with Cable feed (with DTVPal) mixed into CH3.....

Those three: One or sometimes Two get listings..... until the 3rd day, when all 3 lockup, needing power cycles...

IT USED TO WORK.....

Someone smart , please test/review my TVGOS idea.

I have noticed the channel 3 from Artec/PAL is very weak/corrupt /fuzzy, while their RCA, with TVGOS support, on or off, is a perfect 480.

The Vidio out cables, from TVGOS boxes, are clear as as a bell!

They claim RCA out will only work with their suddjested - cable box only, g-link/fake zip set up/box mfg. NOT.

Can you try a patching/cable, from PALs Yellow/WR RCA output, to 3410s coax cable input, cable yes/box no----??? (this idea is way over my head)No need to try it; it can't work. The yellow cable has baseband composite video but the cable input is looking for that video modulated onto a TV channel.

Theoretically it should work to feed composite video into the AV1 input and set the LG for Cable: Yes, Cable Box: Yes but I believe Jan J has tried that and reported failure.

I'm not using either a DTVPal or Artec with my LG. I have cable, which still provides the locals in analog, and the two stations that had analog TVGOS still do. So nothing in my setup has changed from a time when I got reliable listings. Now I get pretty much the same problems others are reporting: no listings unless I unplug the LG for a long time like a day (maybe less, but a few seconds isn't enough) and then I get listings for 2 or 3 days, then nothing. I don't think it's a problem with the ch. 3 output of the converter, it's a change in the way the data are sent, perhaps in the amount of data. I had reliable listings from one station when it fed only 2 lines of data. My problems started when they switched to 8 lines (4 per field), which is also what the converters supply.

IT USED TO WORK.....

yes...

WHAT a horrible waste of time this experience has been....beginning with the dumb line they gave us last summer that the DTVPal would take care of our problems, up to the present that it's LG's fault that (obviously) Microvision changed something so that the data doesn't work any more...and so far none of them has admitted, to my knowledge, that their new "legacy data" isn't the same as the ACTUAL long-gone legacy data, and MORE specifically, they've refused to tell us HOW the legacy data is different from the TVGOS data of last year...

And they blame LG....

what jerks!

And when I previously sent them a summary of problems, what did I get? nada!

By the way, in the thread on TVGOS,
Ken H recently gave us an "update":

Latest TVGOS Update:

The TV Guide data signal includes two streams; (1) the HD DTV format TVGOS and (2) recently added the backwards compatible format for analog devices. Some set top boxes use the backwards compatible data when they down convert the signal to SD NTSC, so that older analog sets continue to receive the Guide data.

The cable headends should also extract the backwards compatible data when they down convert the signal to SD NTSC.

New HD DTV sets will use the DTV formatted data.

That is how the system is designed to operate, however, the Cable MSO’s and individual set top boxes may not have fully implemented the necessary protocols and hardware. (from this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16949729#post16949729))

Here's how I responded (this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16951896#post16951896)):

...pretty old news, I'm afraid, Ken...BUT...

What I'd REALLY like to know, based on my experiments with my LG and Sony, is this: why does the legacy v7 data carried by our Comcast cable (which we have just ended) work for my LG, whereas the data converted by my DTVPal DOES NOT???? Aren't they BOTH converting from the same legacy digital data stream AND aren't they BOTH supposed to be the same (after conversion) as the broadcast data stream prior to June 12????

The TVGOS people have been totally unhelpful about questions like this...

(For your info, when I fed the DTVPal output to my Sony 250, it switched to the channel 3 output of the Pal essentially immediately, got a full local OTA lineup AND a 1,2,4,8 days set of listings by the next day...demonstrating, as far as I can interpret, that the Pal output contains the TVGOS data - in that case v8 - labeled by my real zip code, and including all the local digital channels except for PBS 9.1.

When I do the comparable thing with my LG, it shows that it is seeing the required A and B packets in the DTVPal output, and within a day the LG fastens onto the Pal output as host channel AND gets the local OTA channel output...but here it stops, not one program listing since June 12....

So in both cases, I get the REAL digital channel lineups in these units, which are both digital high-def units, of course, but the LG doesn't get listings...

So basically my question is, if the legacy stream actually CONTAINS the actual digital lineups and listings for each REAL zip code, and the listings are successfully received by the Sony v8 AND by the v7 LG via cable, but NOT via the much-vaunted (since mid-2008) Pal, WHAT has changed to make the legacy data NOT EXACTLY legacy data, and WHY????

As I say, for us peons who have been trying one thing after another, it doesn't seem possible to get an answer to this basic question from TVGOS, but maybe YOU can!!!

We'd be extremely grateful...Tony :):confused:

(And I do mean really, REALLY grateful....)

Addendum: because the TVGOS people themselves are completely uninformative and unhelpful!

(In fact, as far as I have been able to tell - though I haven't checked in the last month - they have completely done away with the help site (though, of course, it wasn't much help, as we all know))

So... As of today (For reasons I'll let you infer....) I'm going in a new direction.

My direction now is to DISABLE TVG, so we can use VCR+ on the LG3410a.

Prior tests reveal when TVG locks up, VCR+ won't work either, so we need TVG to work, but not lockup.
Possible work around would have been to reset TVG at sometime... Maybe 12A or 12P. Reset was found, but decoding 12A or 12P would have been a pain to try and do simply, let alone make it easy for others to do so.....
Prior tests reveal when TVG Data is received, it locks up in ~3 days...

NOTE: My Approach will only work on units that ALREADY HAVE a channel list....

So, approach for this test is to prevent any VBI data from getting to TVG board.

So.... First test...: Remove C493 10/16v.

System boots, Display's HD video, SD (Cable Video)...
TVG works, and shows Channel Icons with no listings...

Setup as: My Zipcode, Cable Yes, Cablebox No.

Time will tell....

See you in a few days.... Discuss.......

REVISED INFORMATION: From others, I'm learing that If you DO NOT HAVE TVG channel in your area, and are NOT LOCKING up in ~3 days, this Cap removal --- WOULD NOT be needed.... Because I'm receiving TVG data on my cable feed, that is locking up the 3410a, that's the only way I could prevent data from getting to the TVG board.
Please understand this.... as this is important....

A new reply from Rovi Sorry to intrupt thread discussion,

Dear Richard Johnsen, This is to notify you that your case has been closed. If you have any other questions, please feel to contact us at any time and reference case # 1029982.

Best, The Rovi Support Team
Rovi – The New Name for Macrovision

CASE INFORMATION: [ ref:00D49pu7.50047qAe5:ref ]
Contact: Richard Johnsen
Case: 1029982
Subject: GBA 10 Comcast CR (1029982) - Richard Johnsen
CLOSURE INFO (if provided): Closed Desc: [

Comcast made some changes last night that should have resulted in the return of your TV Guide data.

If your guide doesn't return to operation over the weekend, please take new diags and let us know.

-----

RJ,

What Diagnostics did they have you run?

RJ, What Diagnostics did they have you run?

Fred

None, think they ment, my repeated problem explaination, of Comcast anolog Hou./Artec/+ asking them to read Jan and Tonys posts.

This may be a future ROVI form reply to clear Macrovision tech emails/complaints

At least they called Comcast and sent a reply!

Ran 3410 channel search, will post if/when anything works, if not, hello Rovi Support Team - Please email them too!

RJ

No need to try it; it can't work. The yellow cable has baseband composite video but the cable input is looking for that video modulated onto a TV channel.

I don't think it's a problem with the ch. 3 output of the converter, it's a change in the way the data are sent, perhaps in the amount of data. I had reliable listings from one station when it fed only 2 lines of data. My problems started when they switched to 8 lines (4 per field), which is also what the converters supply.

Thanks EBO

Next week I'll send your data comment to Rovi, just to see if they reply to my case# email.
Wonder if Rovi could/would send 2 line data, over just 1 other station, for us LG users to lock on?

Please keep contacting them too, so they will have to keep addressing issues & not forget us.
Rovi Support Team mailto:Ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com or 800-386-7380

RJ

Checked "Experimental" 3410a this morning. Set a VRC+ weekly record on wife's Soap's for test purposes... as a backup to her scheduled recording on other "Stock" unit.

So far, all seems operational with that one cap removed.

Note that since cap was removed, whenever power is off, TVG light comes on... Hopefully searching for data that has been defeated...
Conversation with fellow at work who has 3410a (and doesn't post here) his set for OTA only.... He of course gets no listings due to analog shutoff, but reports he never has to power cycle his unit... That's a positive indication that maybe I'm onto something with cap removal...

Jan,

Since the analog switch-off, I have not had to power cycle mine at all. I get no listings but I do get reliable recording by using it like a VCR. you will recall that i was having to power cycle mine daily just to make it useable.

I have not posted here in a long time but I read posts regularly. I have Comcast in the Tacoma WA area. I have both OTA for high def and digital cable which requires a separate converter box. Comcast also sends out an analogue signal so I hooked cable up to my box and I am now getting reliable 7 days of listings and no lock ups. Did a rescan and LG picked up over 200 channels from cable although about 20 of them are music only stations. Chasie

Is anyone getting TVGOS for the 34410A off Comcast Annapolis Analog? I have 2 connected without any listings. Time does not work either. I do receive digital OTA and Comcast Analog and digital.

Jan,

Since the analog switch-off, I have not had to power cycle mine at all. I get no listings but I do get reliable recording by using it like a VCR. you will recall that i was having to power cycle mine daily just to make it useable.

ART!!!! You cannot believe HOW HAPPY I am to hear that!!! :D!

On my unit, I can set recordings with no problem, because my unit DOES pick up the time (and Channel lineup) from the Pal with no problem...still not ONE program listing since June 12...

What did anyone think of the questions I asked of Ken H, who so far just seems to recycle what Microvision tells him, but has not responded to my question about in what way the "legacy data" ISN'T actually the same as the older data (which it evidently isn't)???

Also...no comment from anybody about why my new Pioneer TV doesn't accept DVI from my 3410a...just the fact that a couple of others have seen this problem, but - aside from the issue of DVI cable TYPE, no suggestion, and I don't think that's theissue, since evidently the Pioneer SEES the DVI, since it says EXPLICITLY that it is blocking it...

??????

On my Mits 62525 DLP I can feed DVI to HDMI witout an issue...
At work, I hooked boss's 3410 to a Mits 78xxx Mits DLP and it wouldn't work..

Do a search on "HDMI Consortium"

(So far, Day 1.... No problems with "Experimental DVR -C493")

Dear Lou Confrancisco - reference case # 1029982 Rovi Support,

Repar attempt of proper Comcast analog TVGOS signal, for LG set top boxes and TVGOS TVs didn't work, in most all city's it is either non existent or a city or in 2 their corrupt.

Comcast anolog signal is working in Tacoma WA!
Seems to show, it's not a LG problem and you/they/converters are still not sending us the data stream we need.

The preferred TVGOS on Comcast analog - when parts of these signals do show up the data is corrupt and tends freeze up our TVGOS. What we get from DVT Pal and Artec boxes is a corrupt signal that delivers improper OTA data no matter how we configure our set up, even using your recommended one, when pieces of these signals do show up they lock up our units too..

It is speculated among other ideas, that the down conversion from digital, is only converting a 4 line stream, not the 2 were use to, or the Legacy data has been changed by you/CBS or more likely caused by the digital decoding from OTA and Satellites for analog broadcasts, except in Tacoma.

Can you please, please you see what Comcast in Tacoma WA is doing right, so our other 10,000 LG TVGOS HDDR TVs and recorders will work, as theirs still does.

Thanks Richard
@Gmail.com
P.S. I can Email more diag. info, from our 10 smarter users on http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=337424 on your request.

dear lou confrancisco - reference case # 1029982 rovi support,

repar attempt of proper comcast analog tvgos signal, for lg set top boxes and tvgos tvs didn't work, in most all city's it is either non existent or a city or in 2 their corrupt.

comcast anolog signal is working in tacoma wa!
seems to show, it's not a lg problem and you/they/converters are still not sending us the data stream we need.

the preferred tvgos on comcast analog - when parts of these signals do show up the data is corrupt and tends freeze up our tvgos. What we get from dvt pal and artec boxes is a corrupt signal that delivers improper ota data no matter how we configure our set up, even using your recommended one, when pieces of these signals do show up they lock up our units too..

It is speculated among other ideas, that the down conversion from digital, is only converting a 4 line stream, not the 2 were use to, or the legacy data has been changed by you/cbs or more likely caused by the digital decoding from ota and satellites for analog broadcasts, except in tacoma.

can you please, please you see what comcast in tacoma wa is doing right, so our other 10,000 lg tvgos hddr tvs and recorders will work, as theirs still does.

thanks richard
@gmail.com
p.s. I can email more diag. Info, from our 10 smarter users on http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=337424 on your request.

BRAVO!!!

I think Lou is the guy my local CBS guy has been in touch with at Rovi/MV.
I know you'll keep us posted!
THANKS!!!!!!!!!!

rljohnsen:

I sent a copy of your above post to the folks I have been contacting regarding TVG issues.....
The one's who had the 'conference call' with me earlier this week....

Along with a second email to them with the information regarding the capacitor I removed that disabled TVG on my 'experimental' unit, and the unit is still working fine after 3 days, and recording multiple VCR+ recordings...

I also sent the C493 information to the one contact I still have at LG

Thanks Jan and Robin for response about Rovi TVGOS email , my first pat on the back!

JAN

as I'm not getting data, my VCR+ works and unit is not locking up.

In lew of removing capacitors,

could other 3410a users, do a 653214741 message search (with out a input cable plugged in), a fake, in order to get a 0/0, or lock on to a non-existant TVGOS channel, and then wait for corrupt data to run out, in a week or 2?

Just curious, as can't test & I don't want a VCR+ only, HDDR unit, anyway.
Plus I guess the vcr+ program code numbrers won't work, without code data.

RJ

P.S. Thanks chasieb & ebo for info, Could somebody smart call Comcast in Tacoma WA?
.

Because My 3410a's are 'seeing' TVG data off CBS on analog cable...... It's locking up...

If you lock to a non-existant TVG channel, it will lock, then, after it doesn't find reliable data, start scanning for a new TVG channel... on it's own! Disabling your host lock.

At this point, (In Chicagoland) the only V7 TVG that I'm certain of is off CBS on Analog cable. PBS has V8 I'm certain, but others have said it is sending V7 too, but I've never confirmed it for certain....(My cable is Comcast--Skokie) right now. I still have 3 units setup with that cap still installed..... and we power cycle them every three days.

By the way, thanks for the confirmation that when there is NO TVG channel, you DO NOT need to remove the Cap!!

THAT IS GOOD INFORMATION!!!! Actually such good information, that I editing my origional post about C493!!!

I asked the Wife how she's dealing with VCR+ for recordings, and she indicated she liked the use-ability of TVG better...
"TVG is a much simplier, and 'Slick-er' way of programming a recording...." But she doesn't like: missed recordings, TVG Lockups, and only getting ~3 days of recordings before a lockup (halting further scheduled recordings) during vacations... (Again, this 3 day limit is due to DVR seeing TVG on an analog cable channel).
Jan

JAN

Think you sent a private message to my email some how that wouldn't relate to a post or this thread, anyway I couldn't read read it all, just first line. but

chasieb, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=7528128#6421 post #6421 lives in Tacoma not me, I'm in Houston.

FYI, Your info is a little over my head, but thanks for info/reply,

I had wondered if it would rescan and search for tvgos, plus I thought, a forced channel lock on, would hold, after power down.

As I haven't had to reboot in 2-4 weeks, my currant TVGOS no lock up, configuration is-

Artec box gave a 4 channel line up-no data-think some locking up-gave up-unpluged Artec, and since then, no lock up & I've only searched Comcast anolog Houston, with no luck, no data & no new schedual, just the 4 from Artec, no TVGOS channel or time, searched channels show host 0/0.

RJ

P.S. Yes, Tony this is becoming a WOT/pain, but please don't give up.

As my big screen TV is my PCs monitor I'm considering a $70 HD PC tuner/recorder with choice of 6 TVGuides. http://www.hdtvtunerinfo.com/hdtvtunersoftware.html

but I won't give up unless ya'll do.

Quick check this AM.... Experimental unit still working fine after 5 days!
Normally I have to power cycle it to keep from locking up every 3 days.....
Monday PM.... Checked again... No lockup, Still working, sans TVG.

Saturday morning, I turned off the last DTVPal that was being used as a TVGOS generator (The one being used for wife's three LG DVR's), and removed the CH3 inserter from cable feed.

As of Wednesday morning 8-19-09, all still fine with Experimental 3410a.... No TVG data (C493 removed), but more importantly, No Lockups! :)!

I boxed up the LST for now since I have no source for V7 guide and I got tired of doing a reset daily.

I'm surprised to hear that since I've been running my 3410 "open loop" (no TVGOS) for years now. It's set to a channel that will NEVER find the analog signal, so it never downloads the guide and (more importantly) never locks up.

Stanton,

I'm so glad you and a few others of the "original" purchasers are still here. I too have been running my 3 units without any lockups since the sources of TVGOS data dried up. I wish I could get it off Annapolis, MD Comcast but I guess they are not providing it like some other areas are. There are hundreds of channels in the memory and without a guide, using the unit to find a desired program becomes a nightmare. I could make up a list but I just want to watch TV not play any more.

Art,

Check the analog channel representation for WUSA (COMCAST 29 here in MOCO). V7 data is loud and clear. BUT --- I lock up every 3 days or so.

Hope this helps.

On the Annapolis system, WUSA analog is not available as an analog feed. WJZ is available but it must not broadcast the TVGOS. WUSA is available as a digital channel on the Annapolis Comcast system. I wonder if anyone has experience with Comcast and WJZ.

I'm surprised to hear that since I've been running my 3410 "open loop" (no TVGOS) for years now. It's set to a channel that will NEVER find the analog signal, so it never downloads the guide and (more importantly) never locks up.

I hadn't considered blocking the signal. I don't receive type A packets, only B & C, so maybe I'll hook it up and see if I can force it to ignore my channel 5 analog signal that carries the TVGOS information. I can live without the channel logos and always did manual recordings since PBS died anyhow. Thanks for the information.

I'm surprised to hear that since I've been running my 3410 "open loop" (no TVGOS) for years now. It's set to a channel that will NEVER find the analog signal, so it never downloads the guide and (more importantly) never locks up.
What do you mean "set to a channel"? What do you mean by a "channel that will never find the analog signal"?

If the unit doesn't have a host channel, it will search ALL channels trying to find one...

Came across an interesting situation yesterday....
On one of wife's 3410a's (C493 still installed), when she power cycled it (Does three at once with a switched outlet)..
One decided to forget what date and time it is....
Will not show you any TVG channels! Gives you the impression you have no channels whatsoever!
What you see on the panel is ---------- for time...

If you encounter this, call up regular menu, and set the clock... All TVG channels will then return, as if nothing had ever happened!

Experimental 3410a (Minus C493) has not been power cycled in over a week! No TVG, but No Lockups-- Cable Yes, Cablebox No. Recording by VCR+

Wife has power cycled her 3 units twice in past week.

have removed C493 from 2nd of our 4 units here.... (First one of 'wife's' 3).

This 'just modifed' unit's power plug moved off the power switch we've been using for a little over a year, to reset locked up TVG board(s) due to lockups from TVG data.

Hi Folks,

As you may remember, I had set my unit to pick up data from COMCAST analog channel 29 in DC. That is the CBS local, and it worked fine for about 3 weeks, though I had some of the routine lockups as the program guide got more listings.

Well, things have changed. About Wednesday, I did a plug pull for lockup and when it came back - no clock. That is the first time this has happened since January. I forced 29, let it go for a day, but no go, so I reset all and let it search. After a day, still no clock.

Today I went back to the PAL on A/V 1, and what do you know - clock within minutes. That is the only change that I made. Guide now (4 hours later) says "No listings", but at least the thing has filled out with the channel numbers.

Will watch...

Chicagoland (Where the TVG channels on cable are 2 & 11 -- CH7 removed TVG Encoder a little over a week ago).
I wonder if TVG/Macrovision/______ has been tinkering again.... Earlier this week, wife told me that she got intermittant TVG Data (you know, data for one day, skip a day or so, then another day). She made a comment: "If they can send data one day, why not the next?"
She said the host was 0b, which would equate to CH11 off cable... PBS... Other than a post by someone else years ago, I don't recall ever getting data from that channel..

After close to a month (??) of uneventful operation, good ol' TVGOS is fugging up again. Thanks to Philips' HDRW 720 which also employs TVGOS v7 it appears to be a Comcast insertion issue. After several days with no listings and 'no data', 720's EPG has begun to work again. Until the 720 is back to normal I'm not even going to attempt resetting the 3410A.

I can't understand the intensity of some posters on this thread regarding the compulsion to restore 3410A's TVGOS when it goes belly up. TVGOS is basically a flawed system, worth about as much as its price.

TVGOS is worse when it's in limbo than when it doesn't work at all; recorders actually work well, albeit in a more limited fashion, without it. No currently produced recorders use it and it's just not worth fretting about (for me.) Of course, YMMV!

TVGOS is basically a flawed system, worth about as much as its price.
TVGOS is worse when it's in limbo than when it doesn't work at all; !

GREAT POST

When it worked, it locked up about once a week, or when full of data.

If, ya'll want to keep 3410 as a great VCR+, HD timer recorder & HD converter, yank the cap. as per JanJs posts, or try waiting 6 months to try again.

At least I had a free TIVO that cost me $700 for 5 years, wish I'd got the lifetime Tivo subscription, they offered back then.

Off topic
56" TV/PC Monitor
Found a cool PC HDTV dual program recording tuner with pip, I'm checking out, $160. http://www.fusionhdtv.co.kr/ENG/Products/DualDigital.aspx

HOUSTON no Comcast signal and Artec ruined my schedual, no Rovi/mv support

All - and I mean all - of my devices with TVGOS worked flawlessly with the analog version up until the "digital switchover" (6 recorders and two TV's I've owned - have 5 recorders and 1 TV with it now. Versions 7, 8 and 9).

Never had the 3410A, so I can't speak for that. Point is, until they started messing around with it for this digital stuff, they all worked very reliably. Sounds like it could've been implemented badly in the LG.

I just wanted to point that out - because I know there are people around here that try to say that TVGOS has always had big issues. The only HDD/DVD recorders (other than maybe these LG's) that had problems with it because of their inherent designs were some Pioneers that were out a few years back (they put the TVGOS directly on the hard drive, rather than a separate chip, like everyone else), and the only problem I ever had with it - if you'd call it a "problem" - is a few times when they updated the software to include new channels - and a basic soft reset of the unit always set things right (and that was only a few times in all the years I've had the many devices I've had).

Most, if not all of the problems people have been having with it the last year or so have been because of the signal provider's erraticness - not the units themselves. That's why there's so much variation in problems reported, even among the same units (even among the LG owners here, which leads me to believe it's more the providers in this case, also).

Almost always - other than those Pio's for sure - if it wasn't the provider, it was a user error of some sort - often that they never were able to even figure out. One big, but relatively unknown one (that many never figured out) would be taking a channel from the channel editor that's similar (or even the same) as the host channel that the initial download brings up, and entering the same channel number to be used in it and turning that on and using that for the channel instead. That sometimes effectively kills it from being able to download the guide data. It doesn't always happen, but occasionally it can. It was most commonly seen in the Sony DVR's, which had v8. I experienced it myself, and had erratic downloads for about a month after I did it, but I somehow figured out the problem through trial and error, and it cleared for good up once I started assigning the channel number to the old, original label again - even though it said the exact, same thing - which was WTTW -11 (main channel) I don't remember the exact reason I did it at the time, but I think it was to use the original one for the digital version (which was 11.2) instead.

I can't understand the intensity of some posters on this thread regarding the compulsion to restore 3410A's TVGOS when it goes belly up. TVGOS is basically a flawed system, worth about as much as its price.

So I can't understand YOUR NEGATIVE intensity...my unit worked well for years, until they changed something about the data, and my Sony still works...I also greatly prefer the format for showing recordings to anything else, especially the Tivo HD (one of which I bought for my father)

You've stated your intense dislike before - why repeat it???

my Sony still works..


TVGOS is basically a flawed system


I loved the TVGOS menu, even with it's bugs on 3410.

I love my 3410a, functions, HD, QAM decode, time shift & perfect recordings.

As for me, I don't want a VCR+ timer recorder without a tv guide, or it as a primary box for TV or CDRs

But, all above functions and others still make 3410a 1 of a kind & highly desired.

------
I'll still read & hope ya'll get TVGOS, on 3410s, working!

I've tried everything, very hard for 6 months, Uncle, I give up..

My wife would agree with you that TVG is preferrable to VCR+... As long as you pull the power once every 3 days (in the presense of TVG data).

But TVG just doesn't work with 3410a. Yes, I know it used to, but TVG/Macrovisioin/_______ have said that's LG's fault...

So Therefore, It Must be LG's fault!!! (I certainly don't want them to get the idea that I'm speading lies...!!)

I can tell you, that TVG board in LG3410a DOES NOT LOCKUP with C493 removed from the main board, and TVG data remains.... But It WILL LOCKUP in about 3 days with C493 installed (Stock 3410a) and in the presence of TVG data... The folks in the conference call confirmed that their 3410a ALSO locked up in 3 days, needing a power disconnect to continue working, and that was proof it was LG's fault! (Or so said a conference call I was part of)!

So therefore, we must have been pulling the plug every 3 days 5 years ago when this first came out! Doesn't everybody remember doing this?

Jan, thanks for reply, I agree & pull the caps.

The BIG, only question, I have left, is did you ever find the '39 Indian Motorcycle you've had on your post for 5-8 years?

Some day.... Some day!!! :)!

...I can't understand YOUR NEGATIVE intensity...my unit worked well for years, until they changed something about the data, and my Sony still works...I also greatly prefer the format for showing recordings to anything else, especially the Tivo HD (one of which I bought for my father)

You've stated your intense dislike before - why repeat it???

Why not?

TVGOS deserves it. The only really exceptional thing about TVGOS, if a user wants to work at it, is its ability to manually map unscrambled QAM to the most comprehensive list of EPG data available. But that's because of TVGOS one-size-fits-all approach to guide data. It's fitting that RoVi is pulling away from the legacy TVGOS product. As an overall system it's seriously flawed.

Sony's v8 TVGOS is much better than v7. And yes, Sony's TVGOS still works. But Sony's recorder becomes a brick without it, unlike the 3410A.

As far as the 3410A goes, it's excellent as a legacy transition recording product, but always has had more than its share of quirks. I got mine from a liquidator in apparently 'like new' condition, but then discovered that the HDD was bad. So I replaced it. So easy!!!

But TVGOS isn't worth fiddling with for me and re-opening 3410A's case to fiddle with capacitors while its Catch-22 guide lock-out still performs consistently would be asking for it. (And I sling a mean soldering gun!) (YMMV!)

Wife called me during lunch... Her 'Soaps' didn't record.... Turned on, but didn't go into record... TVG is locked up... She power cycled it Saturday Morning....


This is her "Main" DVR..... (I record her soaps on my "Experimental" DVR -- the one where I've tried multiple ideas--Approved, and Un-Approved.... and presently has C493 cut out of circuit....) She was watching soaps on that experimental unit....

You know what I suggested..... (And just finished doing)......

3 of 4 units have C493 removed... DVR4, 3, and now 1 have been 'fixed'.....

I'm leaving (What we refer to as 'DVR2') 'stock' So that in case.... In Case... In Case 'something' happens, and TVG starts working on the 3410a again..... I'll be able to see it firsthand.....

So therefore, we must have been pulling the plug every 3 days 5 years ago when this first came out! Doesn't everybody remember doing this?

Jan, unfortunately that is true. At least in my case. I didn't understand it at first, but learned to live with it. Then I found this forum and began to learn it's quirky ways. I eventually quit trying to use the tvgos menu in favor of using VCRPlus+ timer recordings. I still had occasional lock-ups. You once rescued mine from a bricked state, but for me tvgos has always been a bust.

Sadly, I had hoped the transition would 'cure' the problem for me, but alas now the best I can get is a clock and a channel line-up. VCRPlus+ still works, but I still have lock-ups. I quit experimenting with my dtvpal a month ago. I found my cableco also provides the same host channel, data, incrementing packets, etc., and I still get lock-ups. I learned the cable in my area is supplying proper data for the Sony DHG v.8 group.

How difficult would it be to put a leg on that cap to a switch that you can 'put back in' if you needed a 'first bithday'?

For years our units worked without a needed power cycle every 3 days. It's a little over a year that frequent power cycles have been needed...
Switch on cap:
It's a surface mount cap 10uf/16v Tilting cap to add switch would likely lift trace from PCB. My approach was more brutal, but simple:
I just carefully cut capacitor in half near it's base with a very sharp sidecutter, and then used a dental pick to carefully remove the base... The two tabs are still attached to the PCB (not touching, of course!), so I could easily add another cap in the future.....

I still have one unit that will remain with this cap installed, and attached to a AC Timer with On/Off Switch. As, If, and when TVG data for this unit returns... I could easily add a 10uf/16v cap again...

C493 is in between TVG board and Tuner, and there isn't much space to work there.

...TVG is preferrable... As long as you pull the power once every 3 days (in the presense of TVG data)...

But TVG just doesn't work with 3410a...
...
I can tell you, that TVG board in LG3410a DOES NOT LOCKUP with C493 removed from the main board, and TVG data remains.... But It WILL LOCKUP in about 3 days with C493 installed (Stock 3410a) and in the presence of TVG data... The folks in the conference call confirmed that their 3410a ALSO locked up in 3 days, needing a power disconnect to continue working, and that was proof it was LG's fault! (Or so said a conference call I was part of)!


Perhaps different posters have different impressions of 3410A because different 3410A's work differently in different locations?

My 3410A has quirks, most notably TVGOS's Catch-22 RESERVED lock-out, but it's never needed power cycles to keep TVGOS from locking up.

Jan J:
What would be the effect of disabling all of the TVGOS-carrying analog channels in Channel Edit (off the Menu button, not the TV Guide button)? I'm pretty sure that would prevent reception of data under normal circumstances; don't know if it would work as well as removing the cap. Those channels could still be tuned directly but would be skipped over when doing a Channel Up or Down.

Jan J:
What would be the effect of disabling all of the TVGOS-carrying analog channels in Channel Edit (off the Menu button, not the TV Guide button)? I'm pretty sure that would prevent reception of data under normal circumstances; don't know if it would work as well as removing the cap. Those channels could still be tuned directly but would be skipped over when doing a Channel Up or Down.


EBO - JanJ says that idea won't work
..Or: you could use cable input, anolog channel blocker, they would work, for VCR+ users & might /may be easier for some users to do, instead of removing the cap. With the right TVGOS anolog blocker you could still watch/record the TVGOS blocked channels, if, the digital equivalants are on OTA/QAM channels.
.. INFO: Might be a little hard, finding/buying one that blocked CBS and/or other TVGOS channels. Think you can buy different, 1 or the 6 channel group blockers, the 6 may help prevent some channel changes in the future. With Hou. incoming channels, I could, block Comcast anolog from 2 to 19, keep 20 to 99, let my data run out, and still get local, most wanted, the big 4 + 7 local, all off of digital, which I record & watch them on HD OTA or QAM anyway. If, I were blocking, I'd try CBS 1st, PBS, FOX & check/verify your TGVOS located channels, message-357159852, like 0+2, find channel equivalant codes online, or smart guys know. If you get 0+0 on tvgos line on left side, you probaly don't have a TVGOS signal to block anyway. Comcast may even have, supply/give lower channels blockers, to help block TVGOS channels, like they use for the upper cable blocked channels, for some of the anolog only users. Just food for thought, I can't test as Hou.Comcast dosen't have TVGOS channels, no data & no TVGOS lock ups.
Rich

I tried that.... TVG ignores your disables....

different 3410A's work differently in different locations? My 3410A has quirks, most notably TVGOS's Catch-22 RESERVED lock-out, but it's never needed power cycles to keep TVGOS from locking up.

fallingwater Seems, You and chasieb in Bellingham & Tacoma WA still get clean TVGOS data.

All of ours started locking up after 1st 2 years, especially when we had alot of channels on schuadual/alot of data/raced through our menu.

Now, in all other states reporting, any info we recieve, we have bad or no data & TVGOS lock ups, constantly.

Wish we knew how WA is still giving good data, are you still getting OTA anolog and/or clean anolog cable data????

If signal is from cable, that would be, if you only get OTA digital, could you give us/post cable broadcast company info/number for Rovi-TVGuide to call, to see what are inputs or digital decoder they use & how it works?

I have not posted here in a long time but I read posts regularly. I have Comcast in the Tacoma WA area. I have both OTA for high def and digital cable which requires a separate converter box. Comcast also sends out an analogue signal so I hooked cable up to my box and I am now getting reliable 7 days of listings and no lock ups. Did a rescan and LG picked up over 200 channels from cable although about 20 of them are music only stations. Chasie

chasieb Seems, You and fallingwater in Bellingham & Tacoma WA still get clean TVGOS data.

All of ours started locking up after 1st 2 years, especially when we had alot of channels on schuadual/alot of data/raced through our menu.

Now, in all other states reporting, any info we recieve, we have bad or no data & TVGOS lock ups, constantly

Wish we knew how WA is still giving good data, are you still getting OTA anolog and/or clean anolog cable data????

If signal is from cable, that would be, if you only get OTA digital, could you give us/post cable broadcast company info/number for Rovi-TVGuide to call, to see, what input or digital decoder they use & how it works?

fallingwater Seems, You and chasieb in Bellingham & Tacoma WA still get clean TVGOS data.

All of ours started locking up after 1st 2 years, especially when we had alot of channels on schuadual/alot of data/raced through our menu.

Now, in all other states reporting, any info we recieve, we have bad or no data & TVGOS lock ups, constantly.

Wish we knew how WA is still giving good data, are you still getting OTA anolog and/or clean anolog cable data????

If signal is from cable, that would be, if you only get OTA digital, could you give us/post cable broadcast company info/number for Rovi-TVGuide to call, to see what are inputs or digital decoder they use & how it works?

As of now my Philips HDRW 720 with TVGOS v7 still hasn't gone completely normal after an insertion (?) glitch from Comcast. As of yesterday it's getting EPG data but isn't displaying a host channel. My 3410A is still locked out of TVGOS and until the 720 displays a host channel I'm not about to fiddle with 3410A's First Birthday and get grumpy! :mad:

I have 3410A set up for TVGOS from Comcast, although it also receives OTA from Vancouver, BC. I'm not going to 'ask for it' by changing those settings.

I don't know why we are fortunate here, but it appears that Comcast has a relatively new distribution system in western Washington State and exercises unusual attention to its operations. However, on the downside, Comcast is about to eliminate all analog service above Limited Basic Ch. 28, AND the FCC has recently provided a waiver to enable all cable DTA's to receive scrambled digital signals, which is likely to mean that clear QAM will soon become another thing of the past and essentially disable legacy tuners such as 3410A's.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1173813

---
In the other room I have a (v8 TVGOS) Sony DHG-HDD500 set up to receive TVGOS from CIVT-DT Ch. 32 CTV Vancouver, BC which is working well. Interestingly, I called the station to confirm that they carry TVGOS data and spoke with a technician who confirmed that they're the digital source for TVGOS in Vancouver, but wasn't aware that because of the way the TVGOS system works they're also supplying an analog simulcast of the data inadvertantly, which is what my DHG-HDD500 uses. CBUT-TV Ch. 2 CBC Vancouver used to provide analog TVGOS, but not now.

I was contact at work for TVG.... and I guarantee you, there was no information shared.
When a problem occurred, they called me, told me to hook a demod signal back into the Norpak box, and they'd then modem into box, and tell me it either passed or failed...
Never got any in depth information.... I doubt that anyone else did either...

Here in Chicagoland, TVG from CH32 (V7), CH7 (V7) CH11 (V8?) OTA or via Comcast Analog cable Used to work pretty reliably in 2003 to 2005... There was a bad stretch in 2005 when one field had data sent in wrong sequence, but TVG fixed that... (diagnostic would fail -- see above). They actually called me at work and thanked me for helping fix the error...

Was good from late 2005 till early 2008, and has been bad ever since (3 day TVG Lockup..).

At present, Ch2 and CH11 are only TVG channels (On Comcast analog Cable).

As of now my Philips HDRW 720 with TVGOS v7 still hasn't gone completely normal after an insertion (?) glitch from Comcast. As of yesterday it's getting EPG data but isn't displaying a host channel. My 3410A is still locked out of TVGOS and until the 720 displays a host channel I'm not about to fiddle with 3410A's First Birthday and get grumpy! :mad:

I got the Fox Ch. 13 host back today on the 720, have First Birthday'd the 3410A and am awaiting results. Stay tuned! :(

Wife just informed me DVR#2 (With C493) missed another recording...
TVG locked up.

Now all 4 units have C493 removed....

So far, NONE of the units with C493 removed have failed even once!!!

Problem with snipping out caps is that it disables TVGOS under all circumstances to maintain VCR+ functionality. Essentially you've given up on TVGOS at least for now.

My situation is different although as yet unresolved. Since the GUIDE light hasn't come on I'm about to pull 3410A's plug and then fiddle with it.

But if QAM becomes scrambled all the snipping or fiddling in the world won't matter much.

Problem with snipping out caps is that it disables TVGOS under all circumstances to maintain VCR+ functionality. Essentially you've given up on TVGOS at least for now.


Yes (It's not hard to give up on TVGOS when it stops working! If you only knew the entire story!!)

Problem with snipping out caps is that it disables TVGOS under all circumstances to maintain VCR+ functionality. Essentially you've given up on TVGOS at least for now. My situation is different although as yet unresolved. Since the GUIDE light hasn't come on I'm about to pull 3410A's plug and then fiddle with it. But if QAM becomes scrambled all the snipping or fiddling in the world won't matter much.

the FCC has recently provided a waiver to enable all cable DTA's to receive scrambled digital signals


fallingwater

Sounds like your lower anolog channels will be converted from digital and you may get corrupt data or no data, too.

Q&A --Anolog blocker in lew of cap removal? Trout line weights or VCR+? Comments?

FYI - Comcast in Houston is gradualy scrambling most QAM broadcasts & refuses to support TVGOS, except for not scrambling the big 4 & the other locals, that are on OTA local digital anyway.

Hope something good, or good info for me to send Rovi, comes out of ya'lls posts!

Rich

PS - Do you have a short name/nick name?

I finally got my channel grid back on my LG 3410a here in GBA46/West Palm Beach, FL!!! It has been blank (no data for this screen) for months now!! Still using analog basic no box via Comcast raw cable!
No ads or listings as of yet but it does list the next download date and type and the date is tomorrow, Sept 1!!!

As always, I remain EVER HOPEFUL!!!

Rockin Robin

(Well, mostly hopeful! Out of frustration, I did break down and buy two Tivo HD's in June!!)

If you want to archive you favorite HD programs on TiVo, download TiVo Desktop and use VideoReDo TV Suite software (PC only) to edit the commercials and save it to a local drive (not a NAS drive) on your PC. I purchased an eight Terabyte Drobo to store and backup these files. Now I can view my favorite shows from any TiVo or PC on my LAN.

Wife just informed me DVR#2 (With C493) missed another recording...
TVG locked up.

Now all 4 units have C493 removed....

So far, NONE of the units with C493 removed have failed even once!!!

I cut the cord (cap) today and reconfigured virtually everything. I haven't received any "A "packets since PBS dropped TVGOS, and the LST would lock up daily. I had to remove the two screws to lift up the TVG card, but that was the only problem. Thanks for your great advice. I'd rather have a "super HD VCR" than an unreliable DVR. I'll give you an update in a month. New broadcast season starts in three weeks, and I need to get a new A/V receiver hooked up by then. I haven't seen any 7.1 shows yet, but I will be prepared. Thanks again.

With a very sharp sidecutters, and a dental pick, I've been able to cut C493 off board without removing TVG card... I would suggest not using dull wirecutters, for fear of damaging the traces. Only a very sharp sidecutter (Without any twisting action by you) will cut cap in half, and not damage the traces.... A dull cutter, or any twisting action can damage the traces.

With power off for a few minutes (obviously), and using good anti-static practices, I cut the cap in half, parallel to Printed Circuit Board, about 1/8" up from board. On this cap, cut it a bit lower than halfway.

Then I carefully used a Dental pick or such, to carefully work the base of the cap off the plastic base.... I left the black plastic base and the two leads from the board on the board, just carefully worked the bottom of the cut in half capacitor off the plastic base, and verified that the two leads were not touching.....

Any time you turn 3410a OFF, the TVG Data light comes on.... It won't find any data, cause you removed the feed to the TVG board.....
That will be a little joke between you and the TVG Board!!

You've been so helpful, so I hate to ask, but do you have a suggestion for a larger hard drive that works in the LST and is quiet?

Yeah, the TVGUIDE light was funny.

I actually have a 330Gb IDE Quickview drive in one of the DVR's... 4-5 years ago.
No, I don't think they are made any more...
In a second, I have a 250Gb IDE Computer hard drive (Bought as closeout from Wal Mart 3-4years ago)... I'll be good with that, until a bad spot happens, then it will 'retry'. Hasn't had a bad spot yet, though.....

Someone here (not me) experimented with SATA drive and Sata/IDE converter... and I think ran into an issue where the file allocation table wasn't finished loading within a certain time, so it didn't work... I think it had to do with number of recordings on the disk.

Someone here (not me) experimented with SATA drive and Sata/IDE converter... and I think ran into an issue where the file allocation table wasn't finished loading within a certain time, so it didn't work... I think it had to do with number of recordings on the disk.I vaguely recall messages about both of those topics but I think they were unrelated. Someone used an IDE to SATA adapter in the LG, a SATA cable and (IIRC) a SATA to IDE adapter in an external removable drive bay to be able to swap drives easily. I think he was successful. I tried it without SATA, just a long IDE cable. It recorded OK but played back with pixelation on the long cable.

Another person (or maybe the same one) reported that the boot time increased with the number of saved recordings until at around 40 recordings it took too long to boot to start a scheduled recording from an "off" condition. He found the length of the recordings didn't matter, just the number of them. I don't think there was any issue with the type of drive used.

JoeKustra, the ideal drive would be 5400 RPM (faster works but doesn't help and is usually noisier) and set not to retry on a bad read as normal computer drives do (you want it to accept the glitch and move on). Such drives were always more expensive and harder to find than computer drives. When my original drive was full of recordings I wanted to keep I replaced it with a 200 GB 7200 RPM Maxtor computer drive. It works except for occasional glitches that may be due to bad sectors; the glitches are in the same places on replay. Good enough for me since I rarely use the LG for recording anymore.

You might try a laptop drive, either IDE or SATA with appropriate adapter. It should be quiet and draw less power than a full-sized drive. Installing a new drive is actually faster and easier than it is in most computers. Just make sure there's nothing on it you want to keep since the LG will quick-format it.

I vaguely recall messages about both of those topics but I think they were unrelated. Someone used an IDE to SATA adapter in the LG, a SATA cable and (IIRC) a SATA to IDE adapter in an external removable drive bay to be able to swap drives easily. I think he was successful. I tried it without SATA, just a long IDE cable. It recorded OK but played back with pixelation on the long cable.

Another person (or maybe the same one) reported that the boot time increased with the number of saved recordings until at around 40 recordings it took too long to boot to start a scheduled recording from an "off" condition. He found the length of the recordings didn't matter, just the number of them. I don't think there was any issue with the type of drive used.

JoeKustra, the ideal drive would be 5400 RPM (faster works but doesn't help and is usually noisier) and set not to retry on a bad read as normal computer drives do (you want it to accept the glitch and move on). Such drives were always more expensive and harder to find than computer drives. When my original drive was full of recordings I wanted to keep I replaced it with a 200 GB 7200 RPM Maxtor computer drive. It works except for occasional glitches that may be due to bad sectors; the glitches are in the same places on replay. Good enough for me since I rarely use the LG for recording anymore.

You might try a laptop drive, either IDE or SATA with appropriate adapter. It should be quiet and draw less power than a full-sized drive. Installing a new drive is actually faster and easier than it is in most computers. Just make sure there's nothing on it you want to keep since the LG will quick-format it.

Thanks, the information is valuable. I found a 5400/ATA/133 320GB drive on eBay. I'll give it a shot and let y'all know how things work out. So far, no lockups! To paraphrase: If all you got is lemons.....

Storey here: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aGS.Igv8bPBc

Is this why we no longer can find a reliable digital PVR commercially available to the regular public viewing audience?

My 3410A no longer receives TVGOS (much like everybody else). However, it remains timelocked to somebody (OTA). I get snowy reception on a few Canadian stations and some low-powers.

Does anybody know if there is a field in the TVGOS diagnostics or elsewhere to identify the host channel for time. (I know how to read the field for TVGOS host, in hex)

I assume it can't decode time from the PSIP of a digital channel.

One can set the time manually. Perhaps that is not your concern. I have 3 units working perfectly without program info. Suggest you set the time manually, scan for channels and use the 3410A like a VCR. I use mine along with 2 Motorola 3416 HD DVR's to time-shift and avoid commercials. Frankly, without the TV Guide data coming in, recording rarely fails and none of them have locked up. I almost prefer using it this way. Unlike the 3416's which record whenever a selected program happens to be shown, the 3410A's record whatever is being shown in a particular time slot. This often used to result in missed programs. Now, i program every day and very rarely miss a desired recording. For the millionth time... The reason for using these is simple. The resulting picture from either an OTA or cable source at 1080i is breathtaking and superior to almost any other source. It is superior to the 3416's and almost as nice as the BluRay source. BTW, I project on to a 96" wide screen.

I concur 100% of what Art said! :)!

I can report that a 3410a used in an area WITH TVG, that suffers lockups and loss of programmed recordings, can be returned to "completely normal" VCR+ only operation, by the removal of C493!

If you're in a location with NO TVG, then you just start using VCR+, and no modifications are necessary.... That's what Art has done.

It's only when you have TVG on your cable feed, and have the dreaded "3 day Lockup" or miss scheduled recrodings, that removal of C493 is helpful.. I was forced into this, because I couldn't have consistant operation for more than 3 days, and the TVG data it DID receive was inconsistant... here one day, missing the next... with no rhyme nor reason as to why... on multiple units.

I set my clock manually... and I can report that I have not had ANY missed recordings on ANY of the units that have had C493 removed! I have not had ANY Lockups of ANY kind since, either! :D! I've RETIRED the timed power switch that used to power cycle the DVR's...

My 'experimental' unit gets a particularly good workout... It has 12-14 hours of recordings scheduled per week...

JohnS-MI,

I'm guessing that if you check the "host" for TVGOS, you'll find it's the one giving you the time.

One can set the time manually. Perhaps that is not your concern. I have 3 units working perfectly without program info. Suggest you set the time manually, scan for channels and use the 3410A like a VCR. I use mine along with 2 Motorola 3416 HD DVR's to time-shift and avoid commercials. Frankly, without the TV Guide data coming in, recording rarely fails and none of them have locked up. I almost prefer using it this way. Unlike the 3416's which record whenever a selected program happens to be shown, the 3410A's record whatever is being shown in a particular time slot. This often used to result in missed programs. Now, i program every day and very rarely miss a desired recording. For the millionth time... The reason for using these is simple. The resulting picture from either an OTA or cable source at 1080i is breathtaking and superior to almost any other source. It is superior to the 3416's and almost as nice as the BluRay source. BTW, I project on to a 96" wide screen.

Do the LG units accept the FireWire output of the Motorola DVRs for recording?

FYI - I noticed an article on Rovi Corp. in the Tulsa World newspaper. It includes an interesting timeline from the original founding company to the collapse of their business model to what is left now. Here is the link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=52&articleid=20090905_52_E1_RvoptL808975&archive=yes) for inquiring minds. :)

Hi Jan,

Have you any idea what makes these units provide such an outstanding picture? I continue to be amazed. I have an LG tuner of the same vintage but its picture is not quite as sharp and three dimensional when displayed on a large screen as the 3410's. The Motorola 3416's are noticeably fuzzier. it is quite amazing. I run everything via DVI and HDMI.

One can set the time manually. Perhaps that is not your concern. I have 3 units working perfectly without program info. Suggest you set the time manually, scan for channels and use the 3410A like a VCR.

I agree it is better without the guide. I've mostly used VCR+ timing for a long time. (Had to learn to pad CBS on Sunday night)

I know how to set the time manually if it is not locked. That is greyed out if it is locked. Mine locked to somebody's time signal. I managed to get it unlocked with an unplug, set the time manually, and it locked back up.

The time signal was off by a bit (2 minutes) but has improved. I'll try checking the guide channel, but the last time I checked, it was frantically monitoring the defunct PBS analog channel.

Problem with snipping out caps is that it disables TVGOS under all circumstances to maintain VCR+ functionality. Essentially you've given up on TVGOS at least for now.

My situation is different although as yet unresolved. Since the GUIDE light hasn't come on I'm about to pull 3410A's plug and then fiddle with it.


Yes (It's not hard to give up on TVGOS when it stops working! If you only knew the entire story!!)

I actually like 3410A without TVGOS, but won't hasten the loss.

B][fallingwater[/B]

Sounds like your lower anolog channels will be converted from digital and you may get corrupt data or no data, too.

Q&A --Anolog blocker in lew of cap removal? Trout line weights or VCR+? Comments?

I'll do what I have to when the time comes. But that time is not yet. Right now if I choose I can use 3410A with RESERVED light on and no TVGOS. But since the usual tricks to get the GUIDE light to replace RESERVED haven't worked but other v7 recorders get host on hex D (ch. 13) I've unplugged 3410A for a few days, which appeared to work in the past. Or it could have been just dumb luck!

FYI - Comcast in Houston is gradualy scrambling most QAM broadcasts & refuses to support TVGOS, except for not scrambling the big 4 & the other locals, that are on OTA local digital anyway.

Hope something good, or good info for me to send Rovi, comes out of ya'lls posts!

Rich

PS - Do you have a short name/nick name?

Aw, c'mon! Use 'fw'.

FYI - I noticed an article on Rovi Corp. in the Tulsa World newspaper. It includes an interesting timeline from the original founding company to the collapse of their business model to what is left now. Here is the link (http://www.tulsaworld.com/business/article.aspx?subjectid=52&articleid=20090905_52_E1_RvoptL808975&archive=yes) for inquiring minds. :)

TVGOS blips can't be a major concern for them now, especially those limited to a niche product like 3410A

Hi Jan,

Have you any idea what makes these units provide such an outstanding picture? I continue to be amazed. I have an LG tuner of the same vintage but its picture is not quite as sharp and three dimensional when displayed on a large screen as the 3410's. The Motorola 3416's are noticeably fuzzier. it is quite amazing. I run everything via DVI and HDMI.

Yep, its picture is better than any other hi-def tuner I've seen! My 3410A screws up on a few channels though and switches subchannels exactly on the hour and then presents a jerky unusable picture until retuned. Weird glitch only occurs on a few channels and usually only 18 hours a day. Go figure!

My 3410A screws up on a few channels though and switches subchannels exactly on the hour and then presents a jerky unusable picture until retuned. Weird glitch only occurs on a few channels and usually only 18 hours a day. Go figure!Is it possible that those stations change between HD and SD or add or subtract channels on the hour? I've read that some PBS stations have done that, running HD at night and several SD channels during the day. Back when PBS-HD was a separate programming service my station (WMHT, Schenectady) ran it continuously except for a local ID on the hour. They didn't have the hardware to generate a 1080i signal locally, even as an upconversion, so they actually switched to 480i for the ID and back again. My 3410A went nuts, often ending up on the wrong aspect ratio for the next program.

Do the LG units accept the FireWire output of the Motorola DVRs for recording?

There was another question like yours several pages ago from foamfan. You might wish to PM him. AFAIK, no one has gotten it to work, but you are free to try :). I did a search on motorola + firewire (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5976198#post5976198)and the last relevant link was 4 years old. You might try a search using moxy, moto, + 1394, i-link. You should find more.

Is it possible that those stations change between HD and SD or add or subtract channels on the hour? I've read that some PBS stations have done that, running HD at night and several SD channels during the day. Back when PBS-HD was a separate programming service my station (WMHT, Schenectady) ran it continuously except for a local ID on the hour. They didn't have the hardware to generate a 1080i signal locally, even as an upconversion, so they actually switched to 480i for the ID and back again. My 3410A went nuts, often ending up on the wrong aspect ratio for the next program.

That's a credible hypothesis, more probable than anything I've thought of!

...I'll do what I have to when the time comes. But that time is not yet. Right now if I choose I can use 3410A with RESERVED light on and no TVGOS. But since the usual tricks to get the GUIDE light to replace RESERVED haven't worked but other v7 recorders get host on hex D (ch. 13) I've unplugged 3410A for a few days, which appeared to work in the past. Or it could have been just dumb luck!

Once again unplugging the 3410A for a few days worked when nothing else would. When I plugged it back in this morning the GUIDE light came on right away. I turned 3410A on, re-entered TVGOS set-up info and as soon as I turned it off again the clock immediately reset to the exact time and the GUIDE light has recycled on and off every few hours since. Stay tuned!

Email summary, it's about message/653214741 TVGOS search, we've tried & tried + plus a request Doc/form-for my diag/VBI info.

Dear Richard,
You may need to do a reset on the Guide and allow it to download the data, to do this:
In the TVGuide Onscreen go to your service bar and right arrow over to Messages
Then down arrow once, but do Not select anything.
using your remote punch in this code: (653214741 below v7)(653274147 v7 and above) (the number will not appear on the screen)
At the end of the sequence it should boot you out of the guide or go black for a moment
once the reset is done please leave the device powered off with no recording between 11:45pm - 6:00am. Please let us know if yout listings return, if they do not, attached you will find a Word document on collecting diagnostics. Please follow the instructions, fill out and send back.
Thank you, CE Customer Support.

Noticed in email that machines that have V7 use a different message search code, than we do.

Here's the word doc for me to send back/fill out with my numbers, might do it in a few weeks,
but I think JanJ has already fought this, message/753159852 info, dog with MacroVision

To access diagnostics information:
1. Have the user open TV Guide On Screen.
2. Highlight MESSAGES on the service bar, and hit the down arrow once.
3. Type in 753159852 .....The Setup Data diagnostics screen displays.
-----To obtain setup information:
1. From the Setup Data diagnostics screen, note the following values:
− Version of Guide / Patch (07.01.25/00.00.00) − ZIP Code 07748− Host ID 0x0− Lineup 0x0− Host Chan 0x0− VBI Chan 0x2a
-----To obtain slicing information:
1. From the Setup Data diagnostics screen, have the user press the right arrow on their remote control.
2. From the Slicing Data diagnostics screen, note the values for
Since Cold HostChan CurrChan Starts Ends Drops TypeA ACorr AErrs TypeB BCorr BErrs
-----To obtain VBI information:
1. From the Slicing Data diagnostics screen, have the user press the INFO or maybe the right arrow button on their remote control FOUR times. The VBI Info II diagnostics screen (page 6) displays.
2. From the VBI Info II diagnostics screen, note the following values:
− VBIState

Thinking they can't help, as think only new fimware or patch will help TVGOS.
Is ROVI-Lou Confrancisco CE tech, smarter than MacroVision's lack-of-support team?
If some one wants to fill this out, to send ROVI, I'll send you a copy.

. Comments?
JanJ?

'Dear Richard,
You may need to do a reset on the Guide and allow it to download the data, to do this:
In the TVGuide Onscreen go to your service bar and right arrow over to Messages
Then down arrow once, but do Not select anything.
using your remote punch in this code: (653214741 below v7)(653274147 v7 and above) (the number will not appear on the screen)
At the end of the sequence it should boot you out of the guide or go black for a moment
once the reset is done please leave the device powered off with no recording between 11:45pm - 6:00am. Please let us know if yout listings return, if they do not, attached you will find a Word document on collecting diagnostics. Please follow the instructions, fill out and send back.
Thank you, CE Customer Support.'

Little over my head but noticed in email that machines that have V7 use a different message search code, than we do.

Why do you state 'different message search code'? 3410A is V7. 753159852 is the code as stated on the form you were sent. The reset code is apparently 653274147.

Here's the word doc for me to send back/fill out with my numbers...

'To access diagnostics information:
1. Have the user open TV Guide On Screen.
2. Highlight MESSAGES on the service bar, and hit the down arrow once.
3. Type in 753159852 .....The Setup Data diagnostics screen displays.
-----To obtain setup information:
1. From the Setup Data diagnostics screen, note the following values:
− Version of Guide / Patch (07.01.25/00.00.00) − ZIP Code 07748− Host ID 0x0− Lineup 0x0− Host Chan 0x0− VBI Chan 0x2a
-----To obtain slicing information:
1. From the Setup Data diagnostics screen, have the user press the right arrow on their remote control.
2. From the Slicing Data diagnostics screen, note the values for
Since Cold HostChan CurrChan Starts Ends Drops TypeA ACorr AErrs TypeB BCorr BErrs
-----To obtain VBI information:
1. From the Slicing Data diagnostics screen, have the user press the INFO or maybe the right arrow button on their remote control FOUR times. The VBI Info II diagnostics screen (page 6) displays.
2. From the VBI Info II diagnostics screen, note the following values:
− VBIState'

My dog is back on Host Ch. 0 x D and purring like a kitten (kind of schizo for a dawg! :eek:)

In the multiple conversations with TVG and their new names, I've heard in the past that a firmware update would be "necessary" for TVG improvement on the LG3410a...
I can honestly say that the multiple conversations where this came up, that I could tell the inflection in the voices could have been taken as: Perfectly straight-forward Honest answers,; "Go Away-You bother me" Irritated; and "I feel for you" Frustrated... Though not in that order....
However, in 5-6 years, I would think that ANY Computer controlled device in constant use would need or benifit from a firmware update... Talk to any OS Mfg.

The issue would seem to be that, if, a company charged money to anyone buying a product, as a license fee, that that company would then be entering into a contract to provide data... And they did so, fairly accurately (from where I live... maybe not everywhere) for years.... and then they did something that made all the units go intermittant simultaneously.......... It kind of makes me think that they should either go back to prior version, or do more testing.... or something.....

But this seems not to be the case.....

So... about this fee we paid to get the data.... Did anyone ever find a 'time limit' for data provision in the small print????

I haven't looked....

I found C493 first.....

At this point in time.... It's up to US to poke, prod, and invent new ways of using our DVR to do what we thought it was to be used for... And if we find some gems of mods, 2 points for US!!!

I'm not giving up on the 3410a.... But I have given up on TVG.... I feel sorry for ROVI, as they are in between a rock and a hard place..... I doubt that they can keep walking away from products and continue to have a following....

Not making excuses -- Just My $.02 :)!

I'm not giving up on the 3410a.... But I have given up on TVG.... Just My $.02 :)!

I don't disagree.

But as a simple-minded dude, now that I've proven that through an inordinate amount of effort I can train that dog to hunt on occasion, the next time the 3410A flakes out I'm just gonna' First Birthday it, reset the clock, manually re-enter the available channels, and leave it on 24/7.

When connected to an HDRW 720, also on 24/7 without TVGOS, the combo offers on one hand the best 480i YPbPr images for DVD recording, and on the other, the best HDMI hi-def HDD images generally available.

Jan J et al: what gets me is that they obviously CHANGED something in the data - and more than once since May of last year - and THAT resulted in the 3410a not accepting it any more - and they don't even care to tell us WHAT they changed and why...

if there was a necessary business reason, ok, I'd get it - I DON'T GET their stubborn, closed-mouth, and misleading behavior and all the TIME that has led me to waste. e.g., trusting them when they said DIRECTLY TO ME that the Pal would do the job - leading me to spend a LOT of time - since the summer of LAST YEAR - on getting the thing, testing it, and when it didn't immediately work, comparing what happened with that versus cable, AND SO ON

I can't use the language in a public forum that I think their behavior deserves!

I don't disagree.

But as a simple-minded dude, now that I've proven that through an inordinate amount of effort I can train that dog to hunt on occasion, the next time the 3410A flakes out I'm just gonna' First Birthday it, reset the clock, manually re-enter the available channels, and leave it on 24/7.

Way ahead of you on that one: did this a couple of years ago. I use my 3410a as a glorified VCR (manual programming), albeit with an incredible HD picture!

Jan J et al: what gets me is that they obviously CHANGED something in the data - and more than once since May of last year - and THAT resulted in the 3410a not accepting it any more - and they don't even care to tell us WHAT they changed and why...

if there was a necessary business reason, ok, I'd get it - I DON'T GET their stubborn, closed-mouth, and misleading behavior and all the TIME that has led me to waste. e.g., trusting them when they said DIRECTLY TO ME that the Pal would do the job - leading me to spend a LOT of time - since the summer of LAST YEAR - on getting the thing, testing it, and when it didn't immediately work, comparing what happened with that versus cable, AND SO ON

I can't use the language in a public forum that I think their behavior deserves!

I'd blame the local cable companies and the entire digital transition process. If Comcast here can get it right better than half the time, the problem goes far beyond Rovi.

I found it interesting as hell that when I called CIVT-TV, CTV Vancouver, the technician I spoke with knew from the get-go that they supply digital TVGOS data on OTA Ch. 33-2, but didn't have a clue that they inadvertantly provide analog TVGOS data on OTA Ch. 32, just because of the way the system works.

One of my Sony DVRs uses CIVT Ch. 32 as its OTA source of legacy data and it works fine. The other V8 Sony uses Comcast's KCPQ Fox Ch. 13 Tacoma, as do all my V7 TVGOS recorders and they work fairly reliably. Every once in a while there's a hiccup and they lose the Comcast host. For other TVGOS devices it's no big deal, I just have to re-enter my ZIP, but for 3410A it's fuss and fiddle time. No more!

I'd blame the local cable companies and the entire digital transition process. If Comcast here can get it right better than half the time, the problem goes far beyond Rovi.
??? The fact that the output from the Pal does NOT work for the 3410a has nothing to do with cable companies, and the fact that the problems with the LG started in earnest by May of last year means it has nothing (directly) to do with the digital transition...although it IS possible that Microvision DID have to make some change related to the upcoming digital transition that resulted in damaged data as far as the LG is concerned.

But, if the legacy data was changed (relative to the original data) in some way that was needed for whatever reason, they could have had the common sense and courtesy to tell us about it and not mislead us and cause SO much wasted time...

trusting them when they said DIRECTLY TO ME that the Pal would do the job!

I had not one, but two: IN DEPTH conversations with them regarding the TR-40 (which became the PAL) where that unit (TR40) was talked up with great enthusiasm!

Sad, isn't it?

Why do you state 'different message search code'? 3410A is V7. 753159852 is the code as stated on the form you were sent. The reset code is apparently 653274147.
My dog is back on Host Ch. 0 x D and purring like a kitten (kind of schizo for a dawg! :eek:)

FW

He said in email to punch in this code: (653214741 below v7)(653274147 v7 and above)

We've always used 653214741 as per manual, whitch I presumed, he was saying it was for units below v7 units, may mean tupe a -b packets is the below type of V7 - go figure?

Glad, your rocking, thats why I won't cut my cap either, for a year or so.

Also have noticed that 3 to 6 comcast anolog chanels, on my 56" hd tv, have horriblie diagonal lines, off and on and they, off 3410, look and record awsome, maybe my comb filters a causing them and aren't showing/filtering off 3410 componet input. So I use 3410 to watch, wish I had a tvguide like you.

Thanks for info, seems you get analog TVGOS data on OTA Ch. 32, they have turned off OTA anolog, in almost every where in USA, hope fcc doesn't sell your anolog frequiency, maybe they left it on for Canada laws?

Rich

??? The fact that the output from the Pal does NOT work for the 3410a has nothing to do with cable companies, and the fact that the problems with the LG started in earnest by May of last year means it has nothing (directly) to do with the digital transition...although it IS possible that Microvision DID have to make some change related to the upcoming digital transition that resulted in damaged data as far as the LG is concerned.

But, if the legacy data was changed (relative to the original data) in some way that was needed for whatever reason, they could have had the common sense and courtesy to tell us about it and not mislead us and cause SO much wasted time...

You're undoubtedly much more knowledgable about theoretical operational aspects than I am. (I used to be an electric station operator (hydro generation) before getting promoted to forum troll, but most people thought I was an engineer. Hell, I just knew where the dry spots were under the penstock! ;))

Anyway, whatever Macrovision/Rovi changed or didn't change, legacy analog TVGOS still works, even on 3410A (with enough fiddling). :D

I understood from the get-go that DTV Pal was problematic for TVGOS and although I have one I never tried fiddling with it.

From the point of view of someone who routinely operated heavy electrical equipment built as early as before 1920, the digital 'revolution' is often a relative disaster. People routinely accept operational uncertainties that just didn't exist before around 1970. :confused: I suspect that many technicians parrot technically theoretical info they've been given without having hands-on experience actually using the equipment. :eek: