FW

He said in email to punch in this code: (653214741 below v7)(653274147 v7 and above)

We've always used 653214741 as per manual, whitch I presumed, he was saying it was for units below v7 units, go figure.

Glad, your rocking, thats why I won't cut my cap either, for a year or so.

Also have noticed that 3 to 6 comcast anolog chanels, on my 56" hd tv, have horriblie diagonal lines, off and on and they, off 3410, look and record awsome, maybe my comb filters a causing them and aren't showing/filtering off 3410 componet input. So I use 3410 to watch, wish I had a tvguide like you.

Thanks for info, seems you get analog TVGOS data on OTA Ch. 32, they have turned off OTA anolog, in almost every where in USA, hope fcc doesn't sell your anolog frequiency, maybe they left it on for Canada laws?

Rich

Can anyone confirm the V# of 3410A? Did the 653214741 reset code work? I've never tried to use it.

Here's the best source for OTA TV info for both sides of the border here. Canada won't go (mostly) digital for two more years. Bellingham is behind a mountain from Seattle/Tacoma but Mt. Seymour in North Vancouver is a straight shot! B'ham's local TV transmitters are actually on Mt. Constitution on Orcas Island.
http://members.shaw.ca/nwbroadcasters/

Anyway, whatever Macrovision/Rovi changed or didn't change, legacy analog TVGOS still works, even on 3410A (with enough fiddling). :D
My point has been that it DOESN'T work at all OTA!!!

Anyway, whatever Macrovision/Rovi changed or didn't change, legacy analog TVGOS still works, even on 3410A (with enough fiddling). :D

My point has been that it DOESN'T work at all OTA!!!

At first I was going to offer to test my 3410A with CIVT-TV Ch. 32 CTV Vancouver, but then realized that wouldn't counter your point. The old shinola does splatter and not much can be done about it, for sure! :p Yes, 3410A's TVGOS doesn't work with digital TV.

Other analog TVGOS equipped devices may still work by using DTV Pal, I don't know.

---
Can you confirm the version of TVGOS employed by 3410A? Sony's apparently is V8.

I actually have a 330Gb IDE Quickview drive in one of the DVR's... 4-5 years ago.
No, I don't think they are made any more...
In a second, I have a 250Gb IDE Computer hard drive (Bought as closeout from Wal Mart 3-4years ago)... I'll be good with that, until a bad spot happens, then it will 'retry'. Hasn't had a bad spot yet, though.....

Someone here (not me) experimented with SATA drive and Sata/IDE converter... and I think ran into an issue where the file allocation table wasn't finished loading within a certain time, so it didn't work... I think it had to do with number of recordings on the disk.

I installed a Maxtor 320Gb ATA/133 5400rpm drive (eBay $40). It took a while to get it formatted, since there isn't much status displayed. But things are working well and I have around 30 HD hours now. Thanks for the help.

At first I was going to offer to test my 3410A with CIVT-TV Ch. 32 CTV Vancouver, but then realized that wouldn't counter your point. The old shinola does splatter and not much can be done about it, for sure! :p Yes, 3410A's TVGOS doesn't work with digital TV.

Other analog TVGOS equipped devices may still work by using DTV Pal, I don't know.

---
Can you confirm the version of TVGOS employed by 3410A? Sony's apparently is V8.

I can confirm that the LST-3410A uses V7 and the Sony uses V8. The LST uses packet types A & B and the Sony uses types B and C. I stopped receiving type A packets when PBS dropped TVGOS and XDS support 9 months ago. I also lost listings on the LST at the same time. My cable company injects the signal into the C-SPAN feed. I have no OTA reception.

Can anyone confirm the V# of 3410A? Did the 653214741 reset code work? I've never tried to use it.

Here's the best source for OTA TV info for both sides of the border here. Canada won't go (mostly) digital for two more years. Bellingham is behind a mountain from Seattle/Tacoma but Mt. Seymour in North Vancouver is a straight shot! B'ham's local TV transmitters are actually on Mt. Constitution on Orcas Island.
http://members.shaw.ca/nwbroadcasters/

FW - JanJ

Before Jan informed us that our 3410s auto searchers for TVGOS on power down, we used 653214741 to search, whitch is like, running menu auto program channel search, to find TVGOS broadcast channels, it worked just fine.

Q&A - what does reserved meen? I have seen it light up a few times but it never stayed on or locked me up, maybe I rebooted, can't remember.

Can you send us Canada's broadcast over secrect short wave???
.
Wonder if thats why JanJ was one of few, getting some, weak, bad data, in north Illionis,
Canada is a streight shot 5-20 miles from him, over flat Lake Mich.

RJ

PS FYI every time I try again to hook up Artec box, I start locking up, and no data??? -Houston

I can confirm that the LST-3410A uses V7 and the Sony uses V8. The LST uses packet types A & B and the Sony uses types B and C. I stopped receiving type A packets when PBS dropped TVGOS and XDS support 9 months ago. I also lost listings on the LST at the same time. My cable company injects the signal into the C-SPAN feed. I have no OTA reception.

JK

Seams you may have hit the nail, on the LG 3410s head, I'll send to Rovi, after Jan responds.

RJ

I never thought it would happen, given the experience since June 12...

But, following a suggestion in the TVGOS thread that at first I couldn't make sense of, I went into the guide's channel lineup that I got from the Pal via output channel 3 and turned on the CBS analog channel (KPIX 5), then changed its channel to 3, i.e., the same as the Pal output, and left it overnight.

Today I have listings for days 1,2,3,8, and I then sucessfully got a recording on PBS 9.1 via the guide screen.

Later I got a lockup (when I was WATCHING that recording and, without thinking about still being in the recording, hit the guide button to check something), after which I had to reboot, but it soon had the time back and still had the guide info. (The host channel still shows as 3.)

I will keep you updated on what happens in the next few days...

Tony :)

Great work, Tony,

I had just switched back to try the PAL again when I read your post. Hope...

Will let you know.

I never thought it would happen, given the experience since June 12... But, following a suggestion in the TVGOS thread that at first I couldn't make sense of, I went into the guide's channel lineup that I got from the Pal via output channel 3 and turned on the CBS analog channel (KPIX 5), then changed its channel to 3, i.e., the same as the Pal output, and left it overnight.
Tony :)

Tony Great! God bless you and ROVI should too.

Can't quite understand, are you reciving a analog OTA CBS channel 5, how can you do that?
How did you manualy turn on CBS 5 analog, or is cable analog 5 running through Pal?
I and most citys not near Canada only get OTA digital like 5-1. Where do you live? FW & Celselab live in WA and still get A packets TVGOS analog OTA.
Then changing 5 to 3, the same as our tvgos support output, that is normally on 3 analog, I didn't follow.

I had noted/found that when I tuned to CBS digital on converter box, before turning on TVGOS support, feeding out on 3, I recieved a schedual but never any data/listings. I could deal with lock ups, as use a remote power switch, but I want/am begging for some data!

ANYWAY Waiting to here how it's working, and your detailed set up after/when you have tested it!!!

Sorry for all my questions Tks, RJ

Q&A - what does reserved meen? I have seen it light up a few times but it never stayed on or locked me up, maybe I rebooted, can't remember.

RESERVED for me locks me out of TVGOS indefinitely until I do something. Depending on the situation different things seem to work.

Can you send us Canada's broadcast over secrect short wave???

Now there's a thought! :p

I never thought it would happen, given the experience since June 12...

But, following a suggestion in the TVGOS thread that at first I couldn't make sense of, I went into the guide's channel lineup that I got from the Pal via output channel 3 and turned on the CBS analog channel (KPIX 5), then changed its channel to 3, i.e., the same as the Pal output, and left it overnight.

Today I have listings for days 1,2,3,8, and I then sucessfully got a recording on PBS 9.1 via the guide screen.

Later I got a lockup (when I was WATCHING that recording and, without thinking about still being in the recording, hit the guide button to check something), after which I had to reboot, but it soon had the time back and still had the guide info. (The host channel still shows as 3.)

I will keep you updated on what happens in the next few days...

Tony :)

Apparently nothing is impossible no matter how unexpected. Glad that you yourself may prove your earlier post might be wrong. Go for it!

Tony Great! God bless you and ROVI should too.

Can't quite understand, are you reciving a analog OTA CBS channel 5, how can you do that?
How did you manualy turn on CBS 5 analog, or is cable analog 5 running through Pal?
I and most citys not near Canada only get OTA digital like 5-1. Where do you live? FW & Celselab live in WA and still get A packets TVGOS analog OTA.
Then changing 5 to 3, the same as our tvgos support output, that is normally on 3 analog, I didn't follow.

I had noted/found that when I tuned to CBS digital on converter box, before turning on TVGOS support, feeding out on 3, I recieved a schedual but never any data/listings. I could deal with lock ups, as use a remote power switch, but I want/am begging for some data!

ANYWAY Waiting to here how it's working, and your detailed set up after/when you have tested it!!!

Sorry for all my questions Tks, RJ
OK...I have long had my Pal and 3410a set up as described in the link below...basically, the 3410a set up as normal with real zip code, and the output from the Pal joined to the antenna input to the 3410a...and I had scanned channels so that the 3410a saw all the digital channels AND channel 3 from the Pal.

With this setup, I rapidly got the 3410a to acquire channel 3 as the host channel AND then got the clock AND the grid AND a channel lineup that included both analog and digital local channels. (This is to be expected, since the same legacy stream is used BY THE CABLE operators to generate such a lineup for sending TVGOS along with their cable channels.)

Anyway, until now, my unit stopped at getting the clock and lineup..even though it was SEEING A and B packets from the Pal, when a period for getting program listings started, the guide light would go on for about 2 seconds, then turn off; and it would typically repeat this a couple of times, and then stop - as though it was checking the data, but didn't like it (?).

And that is where it has been since June, continuing to see data - according to the diagnostics menus, when I checked them after tuning the unit to channel 3, but not getting any listings.

So all I did (interacting with rkg22 in the TVGOS thread, beginning HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17151720#post17151720)) was go to the channel lineup editor in the guide, which showed all the "available" channels, and in which the digital OTA channels were already turned on. On the other hand all the analog channels were OFF (except possibly 3...I am not absolutely clear about this, because I KNOW I had that ON in earlier tests, but I am not sure I had it on recently). I went to CBS analog (KPIX 5), turned the channel ON, then changed the channel from 5 to 3. I then left the unit overnight, and had listings today.

The unit so far is operating normally, e.g., in doing a recording that I set up via the guide, but it has TWICE locked up when I went to the guide. So I will be curious to see whether it gets listings tonight and the next few nights.

Tony :)

My point has been that it DOESN'T work at all OTA!!!

So after all this time and fiddling a new member of AV Forum figured it out!

OK...I have long had my Pal and 3410a set up as described in the link below...basically, the 3410a set up as normal with real zip code, and the output from the Pal joined to the antenna input to the 3410a...and I had scanned channels so that the 3410a saw all the digital channels AND channel 3 from the Pal.

With this setup, I rapidly got the 3410a to acquire channel 3 as the host channel AND then got the clock AND the grid AND a channel lineup that included both analog and digital local channels. (This is to be expected, since the same legacy stream is used BY THE CABLE operators to generate such a lineup for sending TVGOS along with their cable channels.)

Anyway, until now, my unit stopped at getting the clock and lineup..even though it was SEEING A and B packets from the Pal, when a period for getting program listings started, the guide light would go on for about 2 seconds, then turn off; and it would typically repeat this a couple of times, and then stop - as though it was checking the data, but didn't like it (?).

And that is where it has been since June, continuing to see data - according to the diagnostics menus, when I checked them after tuning the unit to channel 3, but not getting any listings.

So all I did (interacting with rkg22 in the TVGOS thread, beginning HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17151720#post17151720)) was go to the channel lineup editor in the guide, which showed all the "available" channels, and in which the digital OTA channels were already turned on. On the other hand all the analog channels were OFF (except possibly 3...I am not absolutely clear about this, because I KNOW I had that ON in earlier tests, but I am not sure I had it on recently). I went to CBS analog (KPIX 5), turned the channel ON, then changed the channel from 5 to 3. I then left the unit overnight, and had listings today.

The unit so far is operating normally, e.g., in doing a recording that I set up via the guide, but it has TWICE locked up when I went to the guide. So I will be curious to see whether it gets listings tonight and the next few nights.

Tony :)

The info that rkg22 provided right here all in one place:

hi avnstf...

don't mean to go over old stuff, but just in case, once you got your lineup, did you modify the lineup so that your ' host station ' is programmed to the actual channel the pal is feeding your tv on ? if your pal is mixed in using rf channel 3 ( or 4 ) and your host station is ' kxyz on channel 9 ' , you need to modify the llineup channel for ' kxyz ' to rf channel 3 ( or 4 ) ... if this is not done, the tv won't receive anything beyond a lineup, because it will subsequently tune to whatever rf channel is represented in the lineup for the ' host station ' ... if that doesn't match your pal output rf channel, stuff stops...

hope i'm not repeating stuff you already know, but i only discovered this during the past week or so...

best rgds,
ron g

I guess I don't understand exactly what you mean...in my case the legacy data is coming via channel 5.1, which is converted to output channel 3 WITH the TVGOS data in the vbi, and my unit is latching onto analog channel 3 as the host channel

there is in fact an analog channel 3 in the TVGOS channel lineup, but this is actually irrelevant, since there is no actual analog channel 3 coming in on the antenna (and never was at my location), and in any case, when looking for TVGOS data, the LG (and other TVGOS units using analog data) scans the entire analog channel spectrum until it finds one with TVGOS data, and that is then the host channel...what is in the TV Guide lineup is not relevant for this purpose, though people in the LG thread previously thought that it was...

hi avnstf...

i found that it IS relavent. once you have a lineup ( likely with ' no listings ' displayed )..
use your channel editor and locate the entry for your host station ( by callsign )... then change that entry to RF channel 3 instead of whatever it WAS ...

the TVGOS software ( at least in my case... v7 panny e95 ) grabs the host station
( apparently by callsign, not rf channel ) from the actual lineup, and then tunes the receiver to whatever RF channel is assigned to that station... it does this AFTER it has
locked onto its host rf channel and AFTER updating clock and AFTER it finally receives a lineup.... once the lineup is there, the host station ( in the lineup ), needs to be adjusted to ( in your case ) RF channnel 3...

eg, in the lineup, if your host station is ' KXYZ ' operating on any other channel than 3, change it to 3... then the receiver will subsequently tune to KXYZ, albeit on channel 3, but the data will be there... if you leave the lineup ' as is ' once the TVGOS gets its lineup, it relies on the assigned lineup channel for its subsequent data searches ( ie, program listings and beyond )...

hope this helps. this is what did the trick for my panny. i went many many times getting as far as the lineup, but then got nothing after that, until the panny gave up
and started over... as soon as i grabbed the lineup and changed my CBS affiliate ( my digital OTA host in vegas ) to be on channel 3 ( output of the PAL ), the thing came to life and gave me program listings... i'm still testing to see how long it stays put updating until the PAL goes back to sleep awaiting an SA channel command... so far i've gotten 3 or 4 days in a row worth of updates...

rgds,
ron g

I guess I understand what you are SAYING, but it doesn't make sense to me....first of all, is your device an ANALOG device, or is it a digital high-def device like the 3410a

are you OTA? I guess so, if you're using the Pal in TVGOS mode

if you change the CBS digital station to be analog 3 how does the device...TUNE to CBS digital?

we must be talking about completely different types of devices, etc...

I need to keep the digital CBS channel (5.1) in the lineup, because I need to tune to it and record shows from it...

hi avnstf...

avs just timed me out after 15 minutes of typing so i'll keep it short...

just give it a whirl to see if you get listings in your lineup grid...

check your lineup in your channel editor... you may find that there are 2 entries in the lineup for the host station in question... in my case, my host station is the CBS affiliate, KLAS, in las vegas... in my channel editor there are 2 entries for KLAS, one for analog and another for digital... change the RF channel for the analog station to RF channel 3, and program the digital entry to your regular 5-1 channel....

i don't know why TVGOS decides to abandon its original RF channel location, but in my case, it does... to me, it's stupid, but seems to be how it progresses beyond having gotten clock sync and a lineup. this is also consistent with the fact that if you disable the host station in your lineup, you stop getting TVGOS as well. this happened to me even before i ever started dealing with the PAL...

please give it a whirl and let me know if you get a populated grid. the worst case, if you don't have 2 entries for your affiliate station, is that you would need to deal with that one channel manually....

rgds,
ron g...

hi again...

forgot to answer your questions....

1 - yes, in my case, i'm using the PAL OTA, and that's the only RF feed to my panasonic DMR-E95 DVR, with TVGOS... not the daily version, but this one maintains a week's worth of listings... the TVGOS version in the panny is v7...

2 - i'm using the PAL exclusively in TVGOS mode and feeding it to the Panny on RF channel 3.

3 - i also have a mits LT-46246 with TV Guide Daily v9. the TV gets its listings OTA from the digital CBS affiliate directly.

4 - i am no longer subscribed to COX cable, and have verified that the only source for me is the digital CBS affiliate in both cases...

5 - i AM subscribed to dish network. the lineup i get contains most of the channels i'm interested in. since i don't use the tuner in the panny for anything else, i'm relegated to manually setting timers and such, but i like having the 7 days worth of listings, and the various sort features in the v7 panny in order to plan recordings....

rgds,
ron g...

hi again...

sorry for multiples here... i keep missing things to answer...

the answer to the question ' if you change CBS to analog 3, how does the device
tune to CBS digital...

answer - it doesn't.... it will tune your TV to RF channel 3 in order to continue to receive listing and data updates from the PAL, not the 3410a digital stuff...

once the TVGOS software has committed itself to receiving analog data, it must continue to do so or it will just get all confused... in your case, i believe that while your TV is capable of getting data from the digital host, the TVGOS software has committed itself to an analog configuration... i believe that you can't mix the 2 in the middle of things... if you're using the PAL to get things rolling, you've got to stick with the PAL feed aftwards as well... the TVGOS software ( my guess ) will not tolerate getting started with analog and then follow-on using your digital capable stuff in the TV...

rgds,
ron g

ok, I've set things up as you say...

but now I don't understand what you say above...WHY do you not use the listings for setting recordings?

you didn't answer my question about whether your device is pure analog OR can tune/record high-def...and I also wonder whether you are using the "substitute" zip code as specified in the Pal manual for the TVGOS mode, versus using your real zip code (i.e., in your TVGOS device, not in the Pal, which doesn't care which zip code you entered for the normal Pal mode, once you've put it into TVGOS mode)

(A number of people have gotten TVGOS to work for analog-only devices using the Pal, but so far none have succeeded in getting listings for digital channels with the 3410a, at least as reported on the threads I follow - including of course the one for the 3410a!!!)

hi avnstf...

since my device is pure analog ( analog tuner, NTSC only, analog only TVGOS ), the tuner in the panny is useless unless i only want to record OTA stuff. if i did, i would set the panny to cable no, box yes, and let the panny drive the PAL tuner using the IR blaster. if i had cable, it would be better. i would set the panny to cable yes, box no,
then edit the channel assignments in the panny to tune to the real correct local cable channels ( cox still provides analog feeds for the channels i watch ). if i really wanted to try it using dish network, i would set the panny to cable yes, box yes, and then try to get the panny to control the dish receiver ( however, not sure if the panny blaster service includes the dish receiver... in that case, i would try to take advantage of my mits tv's ' net command ' feature, whereby the mits net command learns the dish remote, and then can accept mits channel commands and convert them to dish channel commands. in all cases, though, the PAL would be manipulated manually to the local digital host station and the panny would either tune directly for the cable service, or control the dish receiver.

anyway, too much hassle for me, since i'm really only interested in getting a 7 day listing grid as well as using the TVGOS sort features to search for things i might want to record... i then set up manual timers in the panny, and match them with an auto tune timer in the dish receiver...

again, i'm pure analog all the way with the panasonic dvr... and i'm using my real zip code in the panny, as well as the PAL....

i believe that the bogus zip code stuff has more to do with the PAL ' remapping ' of channel numbers to feed to the TVGOS device to be compatible with the older device's channel command capability ( the older guy doesn't know from digital channel assignments, so it needs to be able to just command the PAL using typical 3 digit old style cable box channel numbers.... my theory is that the PAL becomes a pseudo-host, and ships lineups with ' modified ' channel assignments to the TVGOS device. when the PAL receives a ' legacy style ' channel command, it tunes to the equivalent digital channel... of course, this only works with an OTA lineup, since the PAL is an OTA kind of guy....

rgds,
ron g

hi again...

you SHOULD get listings for the digital channels if they are part of whatever lineup you get... the key will be to adjust the RF channel for your host station to RF channel 3...
this should get you most, if not all, of your listings... but then, you'll need to use the TVGOS channel editor to ensure that your TV will tune things correctly... using your regular zip in your device ( 3410 ) should cause the TVGOS data to be regular data. using the bogus zip in your device should cause the pal to feed you its ' mapped pal compatible channel assignments ' which would not be useful in your case, since your device wants to tune to real digital channels... as long as you can edit the channels in your device to what you want your tuner to do, you should be good, with the exception of setting the host station to RF channel 3... hopefully, your listing lineup will include 2 entries for your host station, where you can enable both, using the analog guy as RF channel 3, and the digital guy as 5-1, or whatever it really is...
\
rgds...

rg

hi again...

be aware that some of this is still speculation on my part, since i do not have a 3410...
my setup ( using the PAL ) has no digital capability... in my market, the lineups i get DO include digital OTA channels, but they only include analog cable channels, most of which land in the panny turned off and without their associated channel assignments. i get a FEW cable channels in the lineup with populated channel assignments, but i have to edit the rest to turn them on and give them some channel ( either bogus or real ) in order to get the listings populated... after that, the grid does get populated with listings...
in your case, i'm not sure what your lineup looks like... it may or may not contain correct channel assignments, but if you assign the correct channels and just turn those channels on in the editor, i suspect you might get what you need...

rg

well, rkg22, I GOT listings overnight after turning on the local CBS analog channel (KPIX 5) in the TV Guide lineup and changing the channel number to 3. (I do also have KPIX 5.1 in the lineup, which I left as is.) I didn't expect to see listings, but I GOT them, as the usual 1,2,3,8 day set...

so thanks for making the suggestion and putting up with the fact that, first, I didn't understand it, then it didn't make sense, and finally I understood, but it didn't seem sensible...

now I'll just leave it as it is (though I HAVE set a recording, just to see if THAT works), and see how long it lasts....

Tony :):)

(Guess I'll have to change my signature, but I'll wait to see if it continues to work.)

hey tony...
that's great news... i know you've been frustrated over this stuff, just like me for who knows how long... i hope you get the full week's grid... i've gotten as far as 3 or 4 days so far... PAL stopped once and i had to kick it in the side by doing SA command to change channels, then back to the host... so far so good for me...

please let me know how it goes...

rgds
ron g..

I never thought it would happen, given the experience since June 12...

But, following a suggestion in the TVGOS thread that at first I couldn't make sense of, I went into the guide's channel lineup that I got from the Pal via output channel 3 and turned on the CBS analog channel (KPIX 5), then changed its channel to 3, i.e., the same as the Pal output, and left it overnight.

Today I have listings for days 1,2,3,8, and I then sucessfully got a recording on PBS 9.1 via the guide screen.

Later I got a lockup (when I was WATCHING that recording and, without thinking about still being in the recording, hit the guide button to check something), after which I had to reboot, but it soon had the time back and still had the guide info. (The host channel still shows as 3.)

I will keep you updated on what happens in the next few days...

Tony :)

Hi...to update things, I now have listings from the last THREE nights, so presently for days 1,2,3,6,7,8...two more to go for a full grid.

I'm going to watch something this evening from a recording AND record something else later...then see if I get listings overnight.

(As I've mentioned before in this thread, for most of last year I had to reboot the unit every night if I wanted listings overnight; this continued until CBS 5 ANALOG started broadcasting TVGOS data, after which my unit was completely stable as long as it had 5 as the host channel instead of PBS 9 - remember, I'm talking so far about PRE-June 12. And - during my attempts to get listings a month or two ago (POST-June 12) - the last thing I tried was my housemate's cable feed, which gave me listings from PBS analog, but which then seemed to require a reboot after three days....though I didn't pursue that further, since we were getting rid of cable anyway.)

Cheers - Tony :)

(I still have to edit the post that my signature refers to, because it doesn't mention changing CBS analog to channel 3 after getting a grid...)

A POST BY TONY
I went to CBS analog (KPIX 5), turned the channel ON, then changed the channel from 5 to 3. I then left the unit overnight, and had listings today.

A POST BY RonG
Did you modify the lineup so that your ' host station ' is programmed to the actual channel the pal is feeding your tv on ? if your pal is mixed in using rf channel 3 ( or 4 ) and your host station is ' kxyz on channel 9 ' , you need to modify the llineup channel for ' kxyz ' to rf channel 3 ( or 4 ) ... if this is not done, the tv won't receive anything beyond a lineup, because it will subsequently tune to whatever rf channel is represented in the lineup for the ' host station ' ... if that doesn't match your pal output rf channel, stuff stops...
..........

Now, I think I understand and the trick makes sense, never thought to set CBS to 3, in 3410 channel editor, as CBS's station #.

Didn't consider the 3410 looking for a CBS (logo) station, on 3-from Pal, instead of it's normal channel #, for TVGOS listings/data.
Thought it would find it back on any inputed channel 3 with TVGOS info.

Testing tonight
RJ

[I][B]
Now, I think I understand and the trick makes sense, never thought to set CBS to 3, in 3410 channel editor, as CBS's station #.

Didn't consider the 3410 looking for a CBS (logo) station, on 3-from Pal, instead of it's normal channel #, for TVGOS listings/data.
Thought it would find it back on any inputed channel 3 with TVGOS info.

Testing tonight
RJ
Any luck?

Actually the key issue COULD be to have SOME item in the lineup turned on to 3 - though I HAD been trying to do this consistently (turning on NBC's KCRA analog 3) I may not have done this the last time I set up my system in my "standard" configuration (cf. the DTVPal setup link below) this summer - anyway, I went with rkg22's suggestion, and THEN noticed that KCRA 3 WASN'T on, but I wondered immediately whether by changing CBS KPIX 5 to 3, I automatically turned OFF KCRA 3...I'm not willing to change the setup to test this possibility right now, because I want to see what happens NOW with the TVGOS listing before changing anything...

And along that line, I did NOT get listings overnight - in fact in the wee hours I noticed that the guide light was not on. And at noon - when I was checking the thing out - I got the "invalid recording" lockup, so I used my recently obtained foot-switch to turn off power to the unit for 4 or 5 seconds, after which the TV Guide was operable again. I then turned it off, and noticed at 1:45 PM that the guide light went on, just as it was supposed to...so I'm hoping I'll get today's set of listings by 4:45 PM. (Addendum at 5:30 - checked and HAVE gotten new listings...)

This behavior, however, is reminiscent of what happened beginning in May of last year, i.e., the need to do a plug-unplug nightly if I wanted to get overnight listings...the foot-switch makes that a lot more convenient, but I was hoping that had gone away...

(However, when - as part of my earlier testing - I set the unit up with my housemate's Comcast cable in July, and succeeded in getting TVGOS from PBS analog 9, I found I got a lockup after 3 days...so this behavior seems all too familiar...)

Anyone else tried the setup I'm using? Here is the whole thing (from the link below):

So my current 3410a/DTVPal set up is:

- LG3410a with normal setting, i.e., with TVGOS set to my real zip code and (in my case) for OTA only.

- The Pal set in TVGOS mode with output on channel 3 (though, depending on your area, you may need to have set the Pal output to channel 4), joined with the antenna feed going to the 3410a.

- Then, with my universal remote set with one of its slots now emulating a Sci At remote, I tune the Pal-already-in-TVGOS-mode to 151* (aka CBS 5.1, the TVGOS broadcast station in my area), after which the converted TVGOS data will show up in the output. (As you press each number into the remote, you should see the front light of the Pal blink...)

- In the 3410a, you should do a channel scan with this setup, so that channel 3/4 appears (although this probably doesn't affect the unit's ability to initially find the Pal output on channel 3 as the host channel). If you then tune to channel 3/4 during an analog TVGOS download period, and then go into the diagnostic menu of the 3410a, you should be able to see packets A and B incrementing in the current channel column.

- My experience is that the unit will find channel 3/4 as its host channel pretty fast, and within a day (or at most 2) it will have a grid and a channel lineup. However, you won't get LISTINGS unless - as noted by rkg22 in the TVGOS thread - you go into the channel lineup editor in the TV Guide, find the CBS station broadcasting TVGOS data, turn it on if it isn't already, and change its channel to 3/4.

In the case of the 3410a, the channel lineup should have both analog and digital OTA channels (as well as lots of cable channels), though the analog channels would ordinarily be turned off for OTA. So in my case, the lineup had the CBS analog channel (KPIX 5) turned off, and the CBS digital channel (KPIX 5.1) turned on.

I therefore turned on KPIX 5 and changed its channel number to 3, and left the unit overnight. The next day I had the usual day 1,2,3,8 listings! (I was also able to set recordings from the guide, an amazing pleasure after doing without for months!)

(for the added notes, go to the DTVPal setup link below)

Cheers - Tony

Any luck?

Actually the key issue COULD be to have SOME item in the lineup turned on to 3 - though I HAD been trying to do this consistently (turning on NBC's KCRA analog 3) I may not have done this the last time I set up my system in my "standard" configuration (cf. the DTVPal setup link below) this summer - anyway, I went with rkg22's suggestion, and THEN noticed that KCRA 3 WASN'T on, but I wondered immediately whether by changing CBS KPIX 5 to 3, I automatically turned OFF KCRA 3...I'm not willing to change the setup to test this possibility right now, because I want to see what happens NOW with the TVGOS listing before changing anything...

Cheers - Tony

No son turned Artec off last night whike fiddling with modem,

I do think I have a listing issue, as Artec will only give me the 4 local ota on schedual, will study rest of your post below late tonight as want cable listings back.

YES, DON'T CHANGE ANYTHING!

Set CBS-DTV didital call/station letters-- KHOU-DT, listing set to anolog 3.
Can't use old CBS analog call letters-- KHOU, as Da-m Artect wiped them out.
Hope you set CBS logo to the 5-1 stations call letters, to 3.

Will read/study post after ball games & & vcr+ new 2 hour House on 7-9pm central - fox.
Tks. Rich

Months ago, When using DTVPal with output on CH3, I tried the "Set CBS as CH3" Logo trick....

I also tried the 'feed DTVPal to cable input'

Neither worked.... Still locked up every 3 days, and the "Every other day" of TVG Listings was evident in this, and other tests, which I think were dropped by the power cycles.....

My hope is that Macrovision/______ deteremines there is an error, fixes it, and you folks will alert me of a fix....

In the meantime, All our 3410a's are without C493, and working absolutely flawless as VCR+ only units...

I do hope they come up with a fix, but I won't beta test any more.....

So all I did (interacting with rkg22 in the TVGOS thread, beginning HERE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17151720#post17151720)) was go to the channel lineup editor in the guide, which showed all the "available" channels, and in which the digital OTA channels were already turned on. On the other hand all the analog channels were OFF (except possibly 3...I am not absolutely clear about this, because I KNOW I had that ON in earlier tests, but I am not sure I had it on recently). I went to CBS analog (KPIX 5), turned the channel ON, then changed the channel from 5 to 3. I then left the unit overnight, and had listings today.

Tony :)

You got it! The analog guide channel (CH 3) must be turned on in the Guide in order to receive listings. That is what I did and I have been getting a full grid (8 days) of listings since July. Not without errors however. I still get weekly lockups requiring a power reset. So there is definitely something in the guide data corrupting the 3410. But I can live with the weekly resets as long as I keep getting listings. Also, it is necessary to turn the 3410 on every day and cycle through the channels. It won't get two consecutive nights of listing data unless I do this. So it's rather finicky which definitely was not the case before analog shutoff. But it does work. :)

Here's my earlier post (from July) describing my setup:

My setup: (I do not have cable) Antenna feed is split between TR-40 and 3410 antenna input. Output of TR-40 (CH 3) goes to the 3410 cable input. In setup I entered: Cable - yes, cable box - no, and my local zip code. The 3410 host is CH 3 (it found this automatically). All channel numbers in the initial downloaded lineup had to be manually edited from the cable channel number to the OTA number. I also turned off all the cable channels in the lineup (ESPN, CNN, etc.). There are a dozen OTA DTV channels in my lineup set to get listing data as well as CH 3 from the TR-40.

veets: "My setup: (I do not have cable) Antenna feed is split between TR-40 and 3410 antenna input. Output of TR-40 (CH 3) goes to the 3410 cable input. In setup I entered: Cable - yes, cable box - no, and my local zip code. The 3410 host is CH 3 (it found this automatically). All channel numbers in the initial downloaded lineup had to be manually edited from the cable channel number to the OTA number. I also turned off all the cable channels in the lineup (ESPN, CNN, etc.). There are a dozen OTA DTV channels in my lineup set to get listing data as well as CH 3 from the TR-40."

yes, I vaguely remember this, and I tried a number of variants earlier, without success, but I have been strongly inclined toward my original hope that we could leave the 3410a with its original setup for OTA, and now I'm happy to see that is possible...which has the - perhaps mainly aesthetic - advantage that the lineup arrives (for OTA-only people, like us) with only OTA channels turned on, so that any change in lineup by TVGOS doesn't result in another round of resets being required in the lineup....

Anyway, as noted in my recent post, I may have lost track of having analog channel 3 turned on in the lineup, and I of course have been happy to be reminded of that (in this case with the added wrinkle of assigning channel 3 to the analog CBS item in the lineup) so I'm getting listings, with my original setup now working. :)

As a further update today, I finally have a full 8-day grid of listings, and I am hoping this will continue, though I fear I am going to have to be doing a nightly and fairly precise power off routine each evening, if I hope to get listings overnight...I'll report more on that in a couple of days...Tony

yes, I vaguely remember this, and I tried a number of variants earlier, without success, but I have been strongly inclined toward my original hope that we could leave the 3410a with its original setup for OTA, and now I'm happy to see that is possible...which has the - perhaps mainly aesthetic - advantage that the lineup arrives (for OTA-only people, like us) with only OTA channels turned on, so that any change in lineup by TVGOS doesn't result in another round of resets being required in the lineup....

Connecting the TR-40 to the antenna input of the 3410 should work as well as connecting it to the cable input. The key difference being you don't need to turn off/edit the cable channels in the grid like I did. I would have hooked it up this way but I was getting severe noise in channel 3 from the TR-40 when I joined it to my antenna. Isolating my antenna from the TR-40 by using both the antenna and cable inputs of the 3410 eliminated the noise problem. It was a bit more work initially setting up the channel grid. But I haven't had to mess with it again and the grid has been very stable.

As a further update today, I finally have a full 8-day grid of listings, and I am hoping this will continue, though I fear I am going to have to be doing a nightly and fairly precise power off routine each evening, if I hope to get listings overnight...I'll report more on that in a couple of days...Tony

I doubt you will need a power reset more than once a week or so. I can tell a reset is needed when I turn the 3410 on and the guide does not pop up. Sometimes the green record light will be on even when I haven't scheduled a show to record. A couple times I didn't get listings even after a power reset. In that case I went into the setup menu and selected everything is correct. The listings would then download overnight. We can only hope that someone eventually figures out what it is with the TVGOS data that causes corruption in the 3410. But until then (if ever), I'll just keep doing the reset as needed so I get my listings.

I doubt you will need a power reset more than once a week or so. I can tell a reset is needed when I turn the 3410 on and the guide does not pop up
For the last 3 days, I have had to do a reset daily...this is the same way my 3410a worked beginning in May of last year....if I didn't do a reset (as described below), I didn't get any more data...

This time around, after I set channel 3 to be on in the guide lineup, I got data for the first three nights. Then, though there was no sign of difficulty, I DID NOT get data, though I DID get it during the afternoon, after I did a power reset, then turned the unit on, went into the guide and did something minimal (like move the highlight over), exited the guide, then turned the unit off. (I am now doing a series of tests to check whether I can leave out any of these steps...I have already tried doing ONLY the power off/on with my foot switch and verified that this does NOT reset whatever is malfunction for the guide.)

Basically I have had to do this for the last three days, and - based on my experience last year - it is what I will continue to have to do each day. As I said, this became necessary beginning in May of last year and continued until - around Thanksgiving - TVGOS data became available from CBS 5 (analog), and then whenever the unit chose 5 as the host channel, I did not have to do this, but whenever it went back to PBS 9, I had to start doing it again. :(

As for me in Hou.
FYI -No listings/data

Tryied setting CBS (Hou KPRCDT, 11-1) to analog 3, the Tvgos support ouput - changed fine but no data. Using analog 3 out, as my only cable input, cable yes/box no

Noticed, Tony veets and Jan may have had set their channel 3 to a CBS (anolog logo/station call letters ) . Maybe, the CBS logo you used is tied to anoalog, or 3410 TVGOS doesn't like 6 didget station call letters, but that doesn't make much sense + I only have the 1 CBS digatal logo left. I am trying to use.

Will be Trying/resetting below:

Merge OTA & Artec 3, cable-no/box-no, as think it's the only way any OTA analog like Artec/pal 3, shows up, as think cable/yes box/no, overides any of 3410s OTA analog station reception, so It'll recieve cable analog. IDEAs?

Try to get a new schedual-complete line up, may have to study how to do a 3410 b-day reset, as Aretec won't revise/change, my current 4 channel (OTA digital only) schedual, and thinking it won't give cable listings unless cable/yes box/no, chatch 22?. IDEAS?.

Buy a DTV-Pal & punt the Artec, thought they were about the same boxes.

Will post new info, still confused, may be over thinking.
RICH

As for me in Hou.
FYI -No listings/data

Tryied setting CBS (Hou KPRCDT, 11-1) to analog 3, the aretec Tvgos ouput - changed fine but no data. Using Artec analog 3 out, as my only cable input, cable yes/box no

Noticed, Tony veets and Jan may have had set their channel 3 to a CBS (anolog logo/station call letters ) . Maybe, the CBS logo you used is tied to anoalog, or 3410 TVGOS doesn't like 6 didget station call letters, but that doesn't make much sense + I only have the 1 CBS digatal logo left. I am trying to use.

Will be Trying/resetting below:

Merge OTA & Artec 3, cable-no/box-no, as think it's the only way any OTA analog like Artec/pal 3, shows up, as, cable/yes box/no, overides OTA analog station reception ????

Try to get a new schedual-complete line up, may have to study how to do a 3410 b-day reset, as Aretec won't revise/change, my current 4 channel (OTA digital only) schedual, and thinking it won't give cable listings unless cable/yes box/no, chatch 22?. Ideas??.

Buy a DTV-Pal?

Will post new info, still confused
RICH
It seems to me that people in Houston with the Sony units are having problems...maybe TVGOS isn't operating? (seems unlikely)

A question (which you may have answered) - what zip code are you using in the TV Guide setup of your 3410a? In my lineup, I get all the old analog stations AND a lot more than 4 digital stations.... And, as I have noted, I use my REAL zip code, not the substitute zip code recommended by the DTVPal manual - which is designed for purely analog units, which the 3410a is NOT...

Finally, as I said in one of my posts, I'm not at all sure that you have to change a CBS item in the lineup to channel 3...it may be that you can turn on ANY item in the lineup and change it to 3 and it will work...

(I assume you ARE getting the 3410a to choose 3 as the host channel - otherwise you wouldn't be getting any lineup at all...)

(Have you tried temporarily setting the 3410a to some zip code far away, just to reset things?)

It seems to me that people in Houston with the Sony units are having problems...maybe TVGOS isn't operating? (seems unlikely)

A question (which you may have answered) - what zip code are you using in the TV Guide setup of your 3410a? In my lineup, I get all the old analog stations AND a lot more than 4 digital stations.... And, as I have noted, I use my REAL zip code, not the substitute zip code recommended by the DTVPal manual - which is designed for purely analog units, which the 3410a is NOT...

Finally, as I said in one of my posts, I'm not at all sure that you have to change a CBS item in the lineup to channel 3...it may be that you can turn on ANY item in the lineup and change it to 3 and it will work...

(I assume you ARE getting the 3410a to choose 3 as the host channel - otherwise you wouldn't be getting any lineup at all...)

(Have you tried temporarily setting the 3410a to some zip code far away, just to reset things?)

THANKS TONY
Have tried alot of different zips, got this crummy line up about 6 months ago, while testing 10 different set ups & zips, since then it's as if no communicafion at all.

When have found 0-3 as the vbi channel or host- no new schedual or data.

I do belive it's a Hou. problem, one would think TVGOS is on CBS Digital every where, as a sattelite download for all our local broadcasts, but some local stations may have to interupt download to insert local advertizing, thus not passing TVGOS, go figure.
Gotta go

Rich

For the last 3 days, I have had to do a reset daily...this is the same way my 3410a worked beginning in May of last year....if I didn't do a reset (as described below), I didn't get any more data...


I had that happen a few times too. Quite by accident, I discovered that by scrolling through each channel in the Guide and making certain there was a signal (picture displayed in the preview box) for each channel, the next nights listings would be downloaded. In the Chicago market, Channel 26 has some mapping issues on my 3410. Often when the unit is first turned on it doesn't recognize 26 and displays "no signal" for the main channel and all subchannels in the Guide. Once I tune-in this channel by exiting the Guide and scrolling through the channels with the remote, the mapping seems to get reestablished and I can then see the picture in the preview box for this channel in the Guide. I have found that if I do this every day my listings are downloaded overnight. A power reset is not needed. But if I skip a day without reestablishing the mapping for channel 26, I don't get listings that night. Try this and see if it works for you.

Yes, it's beginning to seem like getting my listings resembles some kind of religious ritual. :rolleyes:

Yes, it's beginning to seem like getting my listings resembles some kind of religious ritual. :rolleyes:

Veets, you crack me up! :D

Yes, it's beginning to seem like getting my listings resembles some kind of religious ritual. :rolleyes:
yes, that's what my nightly routine seemed like all last year, and - since I'm not that kind of religious person - I got pretty tired of it! :eek:

. . . I'm not at all sure that you have to change a CBS item in the lineup to channel 3...it may be that you can turn on ANY item in the lineup and change it to 3 and it will work...Been there, tried that. It didn't work. At one point months ago when I was getting a reliable guide from my CBS analog station, I had only one listing for that station. I wanted to reassign it to the digital version so I assigned another station that I don't get to that channel, but I lost the guide. Somehow it knew. It's possible that assigning another CBS station if available would do the job but I doubt it. I suspect it goes by callsign.

Been there, tried that. It didn't work. At one point months ago when I was getting a reliable guide from my CBS analog station, I had only one listing for that station. I wanted to reassign it to the digital version so I assigned another station that I don't get to that channel, but I lost the guide. Somehow it knew. It's possible that assigning another CBS station if available would do the job but I doubt it. I suspect it goes by callsign.

Agree but I can't/don't have a 4 letter CBS call sign, and when I assign my 6 letter digital CBS (logo) call sign it doesn't work,

Do you think thats my problem?

Can't get a new Schedual with a CBS analog call sign, from cable or ota, old schedual was wiped out months ago.

Might, ask Tony if I can ship 3410 to him, to see if he can get me a 30+ station schedual, as evrey thing I try it won't update my 4 station schedual?

Hou. CBS, Comcast analog and/or Artec is almost not worth this fight, but never say die, as fun conversing with ya'll.
Rich

BEST EVER, HD/DVR box, we'll get/are getting TVGOS working

Hi all!
After 9 months of (im)patiently waiting, it seems as though Comcast in GBA 46/West Palm Beach, FL, has finally gotten it right!!

I did the two day unlug (fallingwater's suggestion) then replugged and reset zip. Next day had listings!! Still not complete for entire 8 days but ever hopeful!!!

Again my setup is basic/analog cable via Comcast without a cable box!
Thanks to all of you!
WOO-HOOO!!!!!
Rockin Robin

PS: Still no listings for my Philips HDRW 720~FW: Any ideas??
I have considered a full factory reset but do not want to lose my grid.

When any of my TVGOS recorders get quirky, and they all do except for Sony's newer v8, I reset TVGOS daily with the exact same ZIP code and configuration. Usually straightens things out within a week or two. I've had a couple of instances lately where one of my 720s chugged right along while the other lost its host for a few days.

After reviewing this thread it appears my 3410A doesn't behave like most. My 3410A routinely locks me out of TVGOS indefinitely whenever there's a power outage or a host channel change. The RESERVED lockout is its everpresent Catch-22 but once I get in and reset TVGOS it appears to do alright with Comcast's data.

About 40 days ago, I disabled TVG from "The Experimental" 3410a. With 10 days, I had disabled TVG from all our other 3410a's.....

Since then, I have not had even ONE missed recording, lockups, or issues of any kind... with any of the 3410a's we own... 100% Flaw-less Operation!

I'm set up as Cable Yes, Cablebox No, and the cable feed has multiple TVG enabled channels...

Wife is beginning to warm up to the VCR+ use of the 3410a.... She would prefer TVG work, but she would also prefer recordings to me made, not missed due to Lockup of TVG board....

C493 was removed from the main PCB. This prevents any signal from getting to TVG Board.

Wife is beginning to warm up to the VCR+ use of the 3410a.... She would prefer TVG work, but she would also prefer recordings to me made, not missed due to Lockup of TVG board....

I'm continuing to get program info (except for the 2 days I lent my Pal to someone in San Francisco who had done a factory reset on his Sony 250 and needed a Pal to get back his channel lineup - the Pal worked for him). However, I still apparently need to do a reboot (using my foot switch) about half the time to get overnight listings...

It's a pain, but I like having the listings in the unit...

Tony

I should add that I rarely get a lockup, so that any recording I set - either via the guide screen or manually - seems to get done...

(I DID get a couple of guide lockups the day I was setting up my channel lineup, and perhaps the next day, but haven't experienced any since, at least as far as I remember...)

About 40 days ago, I disabled TVG from "The Experimental" 3410a. With 10 days, I had disabled TVG from all our other 3410a's.....

Since then, I have not had even ONE missed recording, lockups, or issues of any kind... with any of the 3410a's we own... 100% Flaw-less Operation!

I'm set up as Cable Yes, Cablebox No, and the cable feed has multiple TVG enabled channels...

Wife is beginning to warm up to the VCR+ use of the 3410a.... She would prefer TVG work, but she would also prefer recordings to me made, not missed due to Lockup of TVG board....

C493 was removed from the main PCB. This prevents any signal from getting to TVG Board.

I'm on board with removing C493. No strange lockups. I do have a way to cause a lockup still though, and a workaround. Cold start after being in a box for several months. Change output to DVI, select, then try to set output to 1080i. Can't do it. Work around. Set component and 1080i first. Then change just the component to DVI. Minor issue.

Major issue though is the fluxuations of the audio when watching a recording of HD that has mixed 5.1 with mono/stereo for the commercials. I get a two to three second delay (due to my receiver and optical input) of dead air every time the HD 5.1 starts up. Any ideas? I'd hate to go back to component with just stereo.

BEST EVER, HD/DVR box, we'll get/are getting TVGOS working

That's what I like: sincere delusion. I'll light a candle for you.

Major issue though is the fluxuations of the audio when watching a recording of HD that has mixed 5.1 with mono/stereo for the commercials. I get a two to three second delay (due to my receiver and optical input) of dead air every time the HD 5.1 starts up. Anyway ideas? I'd hate to go back to component with just stereo.
Actually, as my system in now set up (with a new plasma TV and an Onkyo receiver/speaker system), I have component video going to the receiver (which does the switching for video going to the TV) AND optical audio (which carries 5.1)...as far as I can tell, you don't have to forego 5.1 if you are using component from the LG...and I haven't noticed any dead air at commercials...

Maybe I should do an experiment, since - now that I am thinking about it - I currently record mostly PBS programs on the LG, which doesn't involve many SD commercials...(ADDED...I did a couple of recordings of CBS HD programs, and I don't get any lags...what surprised me though was the fact that some - but not all - of the 4x3 commercials clearly have sound coming through the surround speakers...and it's different from what's coming from the front and center speakers, e.g., usually no voice (which is coming the speakers around the TV), but just low-level fill music...hm)

Cheers - Tony

So strange! The damned recorder always screws up one way or the other, but in totally different ways for different people.

For the past couple of weeks mine hasn't given a clue that there's anything wrong with it using Comcast's analog insertion of TVGOS data with KCPQ-TV, Fox 13, Seattle as host.

So strange! The damned recorder always screws up one way or the other, but in totally different ways for different people.

For the past couple of weeks mine hasn't given a clue that there's anything wrong with it using Comcast's analog insertion of TVGOS data with KCPQ-TV, Fox 13, Seattle as host.

Well when someone tells me this who's based in Chicagoland.... I would be Happy to Re-Insert a 10uf/16v cap in C493..... and try it....

But, don't be surprised if I don't jump quickly!!!! :)!

Well when someone tells me this who's based in Chicagoland.... I would be Happy to Re-Insert a 10uf/16v cap in C493..... and try it....

But, don't be surprised if I don't jump quickly!!!! :)!

Don't jump yet.

I am getting a full grid of listings - BUT, I must turn the 3410 on each day and cycle through the channels so that channel 26 is remapped. This must be done each time the unit is powered up. If channel 26.1 does not have a picture in the preview window of the guide before powering the unit off, no listings will download that night. Provided I do this, I get listings each night and have gone as long as 10 days without a lockup/power reset. Keep in mind that I only have a dozen or so OTA channels in my grid. So this may not be possible at all if you have cable and lots of channels.

So, there is definitely some type of corruption in the TVGOS data sent from my PAL, which was not there in the VBI analog data sent OTA before last June.

Don't jump yet.

I am getting a full grid of listings - BUT, I must turn the 3410 on each day and cycle through the channels so that channel 26 is remapped. This must be done each time the unit is powered up. If channel 26.1 does not have a picture in the preview window of the guide before powering the unit off, no listings will download that night. Provided I do this, I get listings each night and have gone as long as 10 days without a lockup/power reset. Keep in mind that I only have a dozen or so OTA channels in my grid. So this may not be possible at all if you have cable and lots of channels.

So, there is definitely some type of corruption in the TVGOS data sent from my PAL, which was not there in the VBI analog data sent OTA before last June.

That's the same symptoms I got from "Cable No" mode when I mixed DTVPal output back into OTA feed. Which, is simelar to what I got with Cable Yes, Cablebox No, mode with DTVPal mixed into cable feed. Neither worked correctly.

And when I contacted TVG/Macrovision/_____, for direction... They said that Using DTVPal in any mode other than with video and Control cable (Which would be Cable Yes, Cablebox Yes mode, but they never said that in exactly those words) would be a "Non-Supported" mode.... And they said that neither of these will work.. But never would tell me why it wouldn't (or shouldn't) work......

So, if you remember, I tried this (video/audio in, and control from 3410a back to DTVPal, based on information that TVG/Macrovision/_______ gave me over the phone, and waited for a couple weeks for good, solid data, that did not involve power cycles.... and that didn't work eiter!!!

What we need is someone from TVG/Macrovision/______ to come here and tell us how they got it to work..... But I'm not holding my breath waiting for this post to magically appear..... If you get my drift!!!

With DTVPal mixed into OTA (Cable No).
With DTVPal mixed into Cable (Cable Yes, Cablebox No).
With DTVPal with Audio/Video cables to 3410a (either aux input--tried both) and control from 3410a, to DTVPal.
Without DTVPal used at all, set for Cable Yes, Cablebox No --to receive TVG off CBS 2-0 off cable.
ALL OF THE ABOVE EITHER DIDN'T WORK AT ALL, or, NEEDED POWER CYCLES TO OVERCOME TVG BOARD LOCKUPS.

That's the same symptoms I got from "Cable No" mode when I mixed DTVPal output back into OTA feed. Which, is simelar to what I got with Cable Yes, Cablebox No, mode with DTVPal mixed into cable feed. Neither worked correctly.

And when I contacted TVG/Macrovision/_____, for direction... They said that Using DTVPal in any mode other than with video and Control cable (Which would be Cable Yes, Cablebox Yes mode, but they never said that in exactly those words) would be a "Non-Supported" mode.... And they said that neither of these will work.. But never would tell me why it wouldn't (or shouldn't) work......

So, if you remember, I tried this (video/audio in, and control from 3410a back to DTVPal, based on information that TVG/Macrovision/_______ gave me over the phone, and waited for a couple weeks for good, solid data, that did not involve power cycles.... and that didn't work eiter!!!

What we need is someone from TVG/Macrovision/______ to come here and tell us how they got it to work..... But I'm not holding my breath waiting for this post to magically appear..... If you get my drift!!!

Right! It doesn't seem to matter how the 3410 gets the data, be it through the cable, OTA or video inputs. What matters is how the 3410 handles that data. And we are all seeing the same thing - lockups and weird behavior that we weren't getting previously before analog shutoff. The results seem to be fairly consistent no matter how we connect the PAL, or even when data is coming from a cable channel. The only conclusion you can reach here is that it's the data! I agree with you. We need the people from Macrovision or Rovi (or whatever they are called now) to stop finger pointing and do something about this. It's a bug and they need to fix it.

So how do we get their attention?

Well Folks, I think I have found a new failure mode!

I am getting perfect listings from COMCAST analog CBS (Cable 29) here in MOCO, MD. I have pared the number of channels down to about 15 and all listings are correct.

BUT, about 1 in 3 times that I look at the listings, the machine freezes. I am in the guide, navigating around with the remote, and all of a sudden the remote becomes inoperative. No keys work and the only fix is to power down. The next power on causes the AV1/RESERVED error and requires a plug pull.

Seems like one fix brings another level of errors...

Anybody have any ideas???

Anybody have any ideas???

It appears that this intriguing transition product from essentially another era has reached the point of diminishing returns. Other than for the joy of tinkering, perhaps it's time to move on and buy TiVo. Moxi too may soon fade into the sunset (although its new owners have an intriguing game plan: ) :)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17244423#post17244423

The 3410A offers a great ATSC/QAM tuner and the ability to record manually with or without TVGOS. Plus, it offers the simplest HDD replacement procedure of any HDD recorder. Use it for what it does well and forget what it doesn't. :(

I am getting a full grid of listings - BUT, I must turn the 3410 on each day and cycle through the channels so that channel 26 is remapped. This must be done each time the unit is powered up. If channel 26.1 does not have a picture in the preview window of the guide before powering the unit off, no listings will download that night. Provided I do this, I get listings each night
when you cycle through the channels, do you mean you cycle the TUNER (outside of the guide), or simply scroll down through the items on the guide screen?

and is 26.1 your source for the listings, or what?

you may have been more specific about this earlier, and - if so - sorry for the repitition...

thanks - Tony

when you cycle through the channels, do you mean you cycle the TUNER (outside of the guide), or simply scroll down through the items on the guide screen?

and is 26.1 your source for the listings, or what?

Using the channel up/down buttons on the remote, I cycle through the channels outside of the guide. This remaps 26.1 and the subchannels. When the 3410 is first turned on, channel 26 usually does not have a picture in the preview window of the guide (NO SIGNAL is displayed on the 3410 LED display). Cycling through the channels outside of the guide remaps 26. I can then see a preview of this channel in the guide again.

Channel 26 is not my listing source, channel 2 is. But for some reason, 26 seems to forget its mapping when I power off the 3410. If I turn it off before making sure the mapping for 26 is reestablished, no listings will download and a lockup occurs the following day requiring a power reset. Happens every time.

When you first turn the 3410 on, do you have any channels in the guide with no picture (NO SIGNAL) in the preview window?

...When you first turn the 3410 on, do you have any channels in the guide with no picture (NO SIGNAL) in the preview window?
ah...thanks for the detail...

I'm pretty sure the answer to your question is "no", but I'm going to check on that next time I turn the unit on...

When the 3410 is first turned on, channel 26 usually does not have a picture in the preview window of the guide (NO SIGNAL is displayed on the 3410 LED display). Cycling through the channels outside of the guide remaps 26. I can then see a preview of this channel in the guide again.

But for some reason, 26 seems to forget its mapping when I power off the 3410. If I turn it off before making sure the mapping for 26 is reestablished, no listings will download and a lockup occurs the following day requiring a power reset. Happens every time.

When you first turn the 3410 on, do you have any channels in the guide with no picture (NO SIGNAL) in the preview window?

I've noticed this same behavior, forgetting the 26's mappings on my 3410 also, here in Chgo market.

This suggests that all the weird mappings 26 is doing, and/or having a gazillion subs is just something the 3410 can't handle and it kills TVG.

I don't have my PAL hooked up right now - been using dumb VCR mode.
But I'm tempted to give it another try.

This suggests that all the weird mappings 26 is doing, and/or having a gazillion subs is just something the 3410 can't handle and it kills TVG.

Channel 26 also maps 23.1 and 48.1 on the 3410. I have these channels turned off in setup, but they show up as channels anyway. The signal strength for these low power channels is the same as 26, which tells me 23.1 and 48.1 are actually the 26.2 and 26.3 subchannels. My other tuners don't do this - only the 3410.

I don't think the number of subs causes problems since 38 with 4 or 5 subs seems to work OK.

Hope you give the PAL another try and post the results. You will likely need to do power resets every few days until the grid fills up with listings at which point the 3410 becomes more stable. At least that's been my experience.

veets: I did check and found that the LAST channel set up in my guide (36.1) did NOT have a signal...and hence a black screen in the little pic in the guide.

I have turned this channel OFF in the guide lineup, just to see if anything changes as a result...IF I find that I then get listings nightly without any intervention...maybe I'll send you a bouquet of flowers or something like that...

Tony

Please keep us posted!!!

veets: I did check and found that the LAST channel set up in my guide (36.1) did NOT have a signal...and hence a black screen in the little pic in the guide.

I have turned this channel OFF in the guide lineup, just to see if anything changes as a result...
Well, no such luck...no listings overnight, so I did my little unplug routine this am in order to get listings...have yet to check, but it usually works...

Tony

Many thanks to all who post in this forum! I have been lurking for a while, now, and you've given me hope and help! Thanks so much!

I'm in the SF Bay Area, and I'd lost TVGOS for many months, and, while experimenting w/trying to recover them, I'd lost the grid, as well. I tried all sorts of wiring configurations, including buying an antenna and trying OTA with an Artec box. Nothing worked.

(By the way, for Bay Area residents using OTA, KPIX has announced that its signal is supposed to be getting a lot stronger sometime in October once they finish work on their tower, in case that helps anyone.)

Since Saturday morning, I've had listings, and they've expanded to cover a week! I almost never post in forums anywhere, but, I want to help you/others the way you've helped me. So, in case it helps anyone... here are the details of my situation:

Location: San Francisco Bay Area (near San Jose, actually)
Provider: Comcast (including Digital Cable Box)
TVGOS station: KPIX-5 (based on what I've read here)
Unit: Panasonic DMR-EH75V w/IR blaster controlling Cable Box
Cabling:
1) Cable out of wall through splitter into 2 cables.
2) 1st cable attached to RF in of old, cheap, analog VCR. RF out of VCR into RF in of Panny.
3) 2nd cable attached to Comcast Digital Cable Box (Motorola). Video & audio cables out to IN3 input of Panny.

Procedure:
1) With Panny on, reset unit by pressing and holding (10 secs. -ish) Channel Up & Down buttons simultaneously (on unit, not remote).
2) Unplugged Panny for 5+ minutes.
3) Plugged Panny in, and set it up per normal:
a) Used my zip
b) RF in - yes, Cable Box in on IN3 - yes
4) Turned it off and left it off a full 24 hours (difficult for me).
5) Turned it on, and it asked which cable system I was using. There was only 1 Comcast option (as opposed to in the past), and I selected it. Confirmed the rest of the setup was fine.
6) Be surprised. Why? For the first time in months, a tv listings grid appears. There are no shows listed, but still, this is huge.
7) Maybe a crucial step... maybe not... I'd read on this forum about people setting Channel 5 to Channel 3 or something. Hadn't quite followed it... maybe because my Panny isn't set up the same... I'm not sure. But, it at least gave me the following idea, which may or may not have helped.... In the listings grid, I selected KPIX 5 and selected the Edit Channel option. I, then, chose to switch the input of that channel from IN3 (coming from the digital cable box) to RF in (see #2 under Cabling, above).
8) Turned it off, and intended to wait 24 hours again. Curiosity had me checking in late morning after less than 12 hours. And, to my amazement... LISTINGS!! Whoo-hoo!! Now, there were a bunch of listings missing, but, it was a start. BTW, one of the stations NOT listing any shows, yet, was KPIX, Channel 5, the one channel I'd changed to RF-in (since it's the TVGOS host channel).
9) A few hours later, I decided to try and correct Channel 5's missing listings by switching it back to input: IN3 (just like all the others).
10) The update: after leaving it off for about 12 hours, I checked it again. This time, Channel 5 listings were there, and more had been added!

I'm now up to a full week's worth of listings!! I'm SO grateful to you posters in this forum -- thanks again! I share this information in hopes that it will help!

All the best!
-Mike

Well, no such luck...no listings overnight, so I did my little unplug routine this am in order to get listings...

Tony

So, no bouquet of flowers? ;)

So, no bouquet of flowers? ;)
sorry...I wish things had worked out better between us

though it WAS your suggestion that got me any listings at all, for which I'm grateful

but I may get so tired of this nightly deal, that I just go to setting things manually on the LG, since it's usually when there's some high-quality program I REALLY want on the LG, so that I have the option of archiving it via my d-vhs recorder - and that's a small fraction of the programs my household watches...

(now, in addition to the LG and Sony, we have a Tivo HD, which carries about half of our recordings...)

cheers - Tony :)

Well when someone tells me this who's based in Chicagoland.... I would be Happy to Re-Insert a 10uf/16v cap in C493..... and try it....

But, don't be surprised if I don't jump quickly!!!! :)!

Hi Jan
Don't jump if a charged cap hits you!

One TV cap. hit me, est 400-2000 volts, knocked me back & scared me me real bad, but what was crazy was my mind/brain was clear and sharp for 3 days, is if I was 15yrs. old, instead of forgetful 57yrs. old, go figure why that happened, but it really did!

Have found a trick to reset clock, using recent posts, unfortunely for you unless using Artect/Pal will reset clock with your TVGOS cap removed.

If your/our power goes out long enough to mess up time, we can't change our clock unless we erase our schedual + all of our vcr+ weekly recordings, plus I found weekly/vcr+ recordings is when my resereve light goes on.

If interested reply to post, waiting to see if I get data too.

RJ - Houston, none of 50+ set ups have worked, except this recent Artec set up, working for auto clock updates, so far.

Can't spell, maybe another capicitor shock would help!

I though I would post my experience with the 3410A (post digital change over) in the hope that it might shed a little light on TV Guide’s data. First a little history, I got my 3410A way back in Oct 04. Perusing the 32 posts I’ve made in this thread, to refresh my memory, I can state that except for the occasional lockup requiring a 3 sec. unplug my box has been relatively trouble free up until the digital change over. After the change over I’ve had the same problems that everyone else has had trying to get the DTV Pal/TR40 to work. However, for the last three weeks my 3410A has been working flawlessly. Unfortunately, for the rest of you, my solution isn’t directly transferable, but I do think it might shed some light on the problem.

First, I am over the air only, and I can say taking the cable company out of the loop greatly simplifies things (and saves me several hundred dollars a year). Second, I live in the San Diego area, after the digital transition our TV Guide data provider switched to XETV. Herein lies the good part, XETV broadcasts an analog signal on channel 6 and broadcasts a digital (6.1) signal on channel 23. And finally, Gary Stigall the station engineer at XETV is very active on our local forum (hdtv.forsandiego.com). Gary has provided some insight on how they get the data and insert it into their signals.

To make a long story short after a dozen different configurations I couldn’t get the TR40 to work. The simplest thing I tried was to connect the antenna to the TR40 and set it to channel 6.1 with the TR40 remote, plug the RF output of the Pal to the 3410a, lock the 3410a to use channel 3 as the TV Guide data provider and watch only channel 6.1 converted to an analog picture on the TV’s channel 3. I got a grid and correct clock time, but no data, in addition the guide light on the 3410a stayed on all the time. So it sat all plugged in but unused up until last month.

Now on to the interesting part, fast forward to three weeks ago, I read that Gary Stigall, the station engineer, say that his station also inserts the same TV Guide data into their analog signal (channel 6). So, tossing the TR40 into the dust bin and reconnecting the 3410a to the antenna, unlocking the station channel guide lock, and putting in my zip code, the 3410a found analog channel 6 as the host channel for the data. I’m now back to pre-digital transition reliability.

What do I conclude from this? My read is, if analog 6 and digital 6.1 are receiving the same data to be inserted into the blanking interval, as Gary Stigall said, there must be something in the digital insertion at the station or the analog conversion at the TR40 that messes the data up for the 3410a. I base this conclusion on the fact the insertion of the “same data” into the analog signal is not messed up. Of course this depends on what Gary meant by “same data”.

Now on to the interesting part, fast forward to three weeks ago, I read that Gary Stigall, the station engineer, say that his station also inserts the same TV Guide data into their analog signal (channel 6). So, tossing the TR40 into the dust bin and reconnecting the 3410a to the antenna, unlocking the station channel guide lock, and putting in my zip code, the 3410a found analog channel 6 as the host channel for the data. I’m now back to pre-digital transition reliability.

What do I conclude from this? My read is, if analog 6 and digital 6.1 are receiving the same data to be inserted into the blanking interval, as Gary Stigall said, there must be something in the digital insertion at the station or the analog conversion at the TR40 that messes the data up for the 3410a. I base this conclusion on the fact the insertion of the “same data” into the analog signal is not messed up. Of course this depends on what Gary meant by “same data”.


mdputnam

Must be great to have a station manager and/or engineer with forsight to turn on a anolog channel! I thought FCC or uncle sam was going to sell or order a stop to using the large band TV frequincies. How could one channel hurt, as much as it could help your city, in times of any trouble.

It would be awsome to have 1 anolog channel, in a digital satellite/cell phone/TV black out or in a power outage emergency, for our anolog TVs and/or TVs, without digital working, on generators.

Please, give him a pat on the back. I hope he sets a example for other citys!

Tks. for your post, pls. excuse my spelling and happy for your TVGOS broadcast.
RJ

Must be great to have a station manager and/or engineer with forsight to turn on a anolog channel! I thought fcc was going to sell or order a stop to using the large band TV frequincies. How could one channel hurt, as much as it could help your city, in times of any trouble.XETV is licensed to Tijuana, Mexico and that's where their transmitter is. Mexico hasn't shut down their analog broadcasts yet. I agree that it's great to have a Chief Engineer who's active on a public forum.

It's a common misconception that the FCC cleared the VHF channels for other purposes. Maybe they should have--interference on low VHF makes digital reception particularly difficult--but I don't think anyone else wanted those frequencies. The only channels lost to television were 52-69. 70-83 were removed years ago.

In my area (Albany, NY) we have 1 station on low VHF, 3 on high VHF and 3 on UHF. Very similar to the spread we had with analog.

XETV is licensed to Tijuana, Mexico and that's where their transmitter is. Mexico hasn't shut down their analog broadcasts yet. I agree that it's great to have a Chief Engineer who's active on a public forum.

It's a common misconception that the FCC cleared the VHF channels for other purposes. Maybe they should have--interference on low VHF makes digital reception particularly difficult--but I don't think anyone else wanted those frequencies. The only channels lost to television were 52-69. 70-83 were removed years ago.

In my area (Albany, NY) we have 1 station on low VHF, 3 on high VHF and 3 on UHF. Very similar to the spread we had with analog.

EBO

Does this meen if I/we in Houston with no OTA anolog, we can get emergancy broadcasts on our old UHF/VHF battery TVs, like a UFH channel? If not what should we do if city power is out or digital is blacked out, say by huge solar flare. If you have a good answer shouldn't major networks explain it to the general public, like they used to do, interuppt TV, for emergancy broadcast listening infomation, once a week. As for me, kids & grand kids we'll just listen for the ole h-bomb city siren to go off.

I'm being to paranoid & if we have a future problem I should hug a AM/FM radio insted of watching TV.

Later, Hou. TX, still hoping to get any TVGOS data from Artec, anolog cable or a new anolog OTA.

Tks, RJ

There are still several low-power analog TV stations near Houston, but I expect they'll convert to digital sometime. They weren't affected by the shutdown of full-power analogs in June. But anyone in an area with no analog TV reception cannot expect that analog stations will suddenly spring to life in an emergency. Everyone should have a working battery-powered AM and/or FM radio available.

If you have a battery-powered analog TV, you might want to get a digital converter for it. Some have 12VDC inputs, others can be run from an inverter. Don't assume that all of the TV stations can continue to broadcast in an emergency but at least some probably will.

There are still several low-power analog TV stations near Houston, but I expect they'll convert to digital sometime. They weren't affected by the shutdown of full-power analogs in June. But anyone in an area with no analog TV reception cannot expect that analog stations will suddenly spring to life in an emergency. Everyone should have a working battery-powered AM and/or FM radio available.

If you have a battery-powered analog TV, you might want to get a digital converter for it. Some have 12VDC inputs, others can be run from an inverter. Don't assume that all of the TV stations can continue to broadcast in an emergency but at least some probably will.

Ebo Thanks,

I live by Houston broadcast antennas, 4 miles, no analog, even with my huge antennas that get Galveston and Conroe.

Yes, good answer, I have inverter, Artec converter, generator & will make sure kids have simular outs.

Shouldn't major networks tell this to the public?

It appears that this intriguing transition product from essentially another era has reached the point of diminishing returns. :(

FW

Have found a trick to reset clock, using recent posts, using Artec/Pal.

If your/our power goes out long enough to mess up time, we can't change our clock unless we erase our schedual + all of our vcr+ weekly recordings, unless clock is updated by a broadcast.

Plus I found weekly/vcr+ recordings is when my resereve light goes on.

If interested reply to post, waiting to see if I get data too.

RJ - Houston, none of 50+ set ups have worked, except this recent Artec set up, working for auto clock updates, so far.

After 6 months of nothing I have a new full 40 channel line up and TVGOS/input ask me which station I recieved!!!

I know you guys have got this far but it's like new hope/or Bret beating Green Bay!

I tried Tony & freinds comments.

I told Artec box to ignore the sub channels, like my CBS is on 11-1 and told it to ignor/turn off 11-2, and a lot of other sub channels I considered a possible broadcast channel, like my PBS is 8.1 so I switched off 8.2, 8.3, 8.4.

Then for a test I pluged in Artec box in cable in, no merge for now, scaned channels, it found 3, and stopped scan after that-select-select.

Can't merge as all cable channels get fuzzy when I try a splitter.

So, I edited my 3410 channels, about 30, turned off, & no tvgos light? Still thinking if I should turn back on or power off/on.

Update, 1 second power cycle got light, Oh crxp I need turn off vcr+ = House, Lie to me, as no cable in, OMG what to do, bet tivo guys don't have this much fun!

HOPE & FUN again

After 6 months of nothing I have a new full 40 channel line up and TVGOS/input ask me which station I recieved!!!

I know you guys have got this far but it's like new hope/or Bret beating Green Bay!

I tried Tony & freinds comments.

I told Artec box to ignore the sub channels, like my CBS is on 11-1 and told it to ignor/turn off 11-2, and a lot of other sub channels I considered a possible broadcast channel, like my PBS is 8.1 so I switched off 8.2, 8.3, 8.4.

Then for a test I pluged in Artec box in cable in, no merge for now, scaned channels, it found 3, and stopped scan after that-select-select.

Can't merge as all cable channels get fuzzy when I try a splitter.

So, I edited my 3410 channels, about 30, turnd off, & no tvgos light? Still thinking if I should turn back on or power off/on.

HOPE & FUN again

Where can I find the step by step on how to do this and set it up?

Where can I find the step by step on how to do this and set it up?

Sun

Will let you know
As for now tell box to turn off sub channels on CBS, like ?.2, and read last post, I'm missing Game/House/2 more.
Back in a few hours

Update, Ok, recording House on OTA.
This isn't a fix, but may be, first time I got a new schedual and a question as to what channel I recieved a channel on Comacast,
RJ

Where can I find the step by step on how to do this and set it up?
for OTA, you might want to look at my DTVPal link below...

if you have cable, the first question is whether any of your cable channels carry TVGOS...when we temporarily had cable, I succeeded in getting guide and listings from cable with a normal setup

for OTA, you might want to look at my DTVPal link below...

if you have cable, the first question is whether any of your cable channels carry TVGOS...when we temporarily had cable, I succeeded in getting guide and listings from cable with a normal setup

TONY, Guessing his Comcast analog doesn't deliver signal, as a lot of ours.

SUNDANCE - read avnstf/Tonys recent posts as he has a Pal, and some success + the first turn off sub channels idea, that is really helping me,a lot, updates later.

RJ

Ok, I have my first 2 way communication with TVGOS broadcast in about 1 year!
Did Rovi fix something at cbs (BUT) it's probably Tonys recent thread/posts with lgdavis & veets, about digital sub-channels & mapping, that they think is confusing my 3410 or my Artec box, who knows? Trying their fix & is working, THANKS! See set up below.
As learned in past, when I changed my local zip code to one a few miles away TVGOS would ask me a question, like do I get the golf channel and/or is KXXX on channel 19, so I knew TVGOS was broadcasting & communicating with my set up, plus clock would update/correct and guide light cycle off for 5-30 minutes and back on twice a day.
This is happening and have a updating clock and about a 70 channel TV guide Schedule. turned off all but about 10 channels on/in guide schedual. WOW a great schedule, no data yet, just replyied to TVGOSs cable channel question.
My guide light cycled off and back on at exactly 2:30am, central time, last night!
Stay tuned

[SIZE="2"]Update 1 I have full scheduals listing data!
Update 2 Just one lock up my fault, to big schd and moved to fast.

Update 3 Guide light stopped staying on after editing 3410s channels,Having a bad, guide host channel lost, issue, not updating data.

[B]Update 4 Repaired my guide host! the only way it worked was changed my zip-it's working. The Artec dosen't seem to work/update data after editing channels, unless I change zip code, and answer channel guide question, new quirk, [SIZE="3"]whatta pain[/SIZE


-------------- Set Up using some of our forums tricks.------------

1. Stablize your OTA digital reception, see tips below.

2. I split OTA cable to my TV, to 3410 rf antenna in, to Artec rf in, and then Artec out to 3410 cable rf input, will merge cable analog later see note below.

For ease of editing/watching Artecs stuff/menu I ran its AV out, RCA Y,R,W, to my TVs AV input.

3. In Artec set up, I ran factory reset, auto scanned channels,
(THE KEY!) then I turned off CBS 11-2 sub-channel in Artec channel selector/editor, (Hou. CBS uses 11-1 as 1st main channel) .

plus as precaution turned off other PBS/FOX/NBC/ABC/SPANISH sub-channels - like my PBSs 8-2, 8-3, 8-4 subs.

4. Tuned Artec to show CBS - then turned on its TVGOS support.

5. In 3410 set up cable/yes - cable box/no. If you want but you shouldn't have to, I changed zip, to any local zip code, I used cbs antennas zip,. Converters fake/manual/zips messed me up, wouldn't try 'em.

6. Ran 3410 channel auto scan on the (cable type-IRC setting), As expected it only found channel 3 on cable, & all OTA channels.

7. Gave/assigned CBS anolog (logo & call letters) channel 3, in 3410 TVGOS channel set up, CAUTION Do this but don't edit/remove any channel 3 station that shows up in schedual or editor. host channel problem/bug-FYI, FIX-Host, only way was changed my zip and it it's working, resherch update later.

------tips notes-----
If it all keeps working & 3410a doesn't lock up to much I will merge Artecs channel 3 with Comcast analog feed later, probably block cable 2, 3, & 4 then merge Artecs cnl. 3 with 'em, (unless someone has a easier work around.) For now I'll quick swap them when recording cable stuff., if not I'll let data run out in a week, unplug Artec & go back to VCR+.

If you power cycle Artec/Pal with 3410, don't forget to turn converter box back on & it turns off with power outages.

I used google maps, satelite view, to find CBSs brodcasting antenna, used & their zip code, figured if any zips worked theirs would, plus got a accurate heading to point my antenna at, a storm spun my antenna around.

If you don't have analog cable TV and don't want a Comcast style large schedule, try just merging Pal or Artec back into OTA cable, then to 3410 antenna in rf and use cable box-no in 3410 set up, should work and give OTA schedual.
--------------
Just for fun/MORE reading, a tvgos site post--Have several horrible replys from Rovi and no hard facts.
FYI, Repaired host issue, may help fixing your bombs.
Our old, tvgos version and our tvgos memory space on LG LST-3410a sucks, but quality HD OTA/QAM and easy replacing 120s with 300 or 500 gig h-drives, is awesome, better than most & the pay for HDDRs.
When Artec/tvgos worked on a lot of other HDRs, it's been a real pain on 3410s. Had to use VCR+ for 1yr, DVT-Pals weren't much better, [B]I'll fix our 3410/Aretec bugs unless I croak 1st[.

FW

Have found a trick to reset clock, using recent posts, using Artec/Pal.

If your/our power goes out long enough to mess up time, we can't change our clock unless we erase our schedual + all of our vcr+ weekly recordings, unless clock is updated by a broadcast.

Plus I found weekly/vcr+ recordings is when my reserve light goes on.

If interested reply to post, waiting to see if I get data too.

RJ - Houston, none of 50+ set ups have worked, except this recent Artec set up, working for auto clock updates, so far.

My 3410A has a different set of limitations.

A couple of days ago we had our first wind caused power outage in months. It only lasted 15 seconds or so as substation auto-reclosers picked up our neighborhood right away, but adjacent parts of town were out for several hours as a tree blew into a line.

Anyway, poof, no matter how short, any power interruption causes 3410A to lose TVGOS and the clock, and brings on the RESERVE light lock-out! Since it mandates that any recorder be off for several hours every day, I'm going to ignore TVGOS from here on and leave 3410A on 24/7.

FWIW, my HDRW 720 also lost TVGOS but asked for a TVGOS reset right away. Instead I'll leave it on 24/7 as well, without TVGOS.

Sony's DHG-HDD500 can simultaneously supply the 720 with standard-def S-video signals while at the same time remaining viewable in high-def via Y,Pb,Pr. As a bonus, the Sony provides both TVGOS and its menu in high-def but not on the S-video signal; perfect for 720 recording!

Since my 3410A's TVGOS flickers unwatchably at any resolution above 480p, by forgoing the guide I can just enjoy its high-def picture without fussing, while still being able to record manually in hi-def.

My 3410A has a different set of limitations..

FW,

Just a guess but belive you may have a old, timer maybe weekly, recording artifact hidden in a TVGOS chip/memory, if you can't get rid of reserve by clearing schedual before or after power down, I noticed one time a old recording just showed up while scheudling sometiing else, on same channel or program, did you try b-day reset, is your fimware a newer one-don't think fimware matters alot.

Power outs should only mess up your clock, not reserve light unless you have recordings schduled, maybe, lock up is due to something else and you are blaming it on reserve, maybe try my new set up, clock should always reset its self, after power outage, if you turn converter box back on, batt. back up works great..

Never had a problem with crummy TVOGS vidio, maybe your tv filters or cable, are you using good cables and/or are they on componet out, to by pass resoultion/filter problems, if not try both.

My reserved light is on now due to my weekly vcr+ recordings I schedualed and it isn't bothering me a bit, using my new post/set up below.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17305651&postcount=6571, ,
read it and/or try it and post back,
RJ

Congratulations in finally experiencing success using the Artec CECB for the link!

From reading posts in this thread I've come to believe that many 3410A users experience different unique issues with the recorder.

I got my 3410A from a close-out distributor. It was apparently in LNOB condition, but I soon discovered that it had a bad HDD which I replaced. Aside from that the recorder has never been able to retain anything in memory whenever there's a power interruption, no matter how brief. It always presents the RESERVED light lockout whenever it loses clock time. It has never been able to display watchable TVGOS above 480p resolution but rather flickers incessently.

I've First Birthday'd it innumerable times; that's the only way to reset the clock. TVGOS can reset the clock but my 3410A requires an accurate clock to access TVGOS in the first place, its great CATCH-22 issue!

[QUOTE=rljohnsen;17305651]
Ok, I have my first 2 way communication with TVGOS broadcast in about 1 year!

Did Rovi fix something at cbs (BUT) it's probably Tonys recent thread/posts with lgdavis & veets, about digital sub-channels & mapping, that they think is confusing my 3410 or my Artec box, who knows? Trying their fix & is working, THANKS! See set up on #6571. QUOTE]

Update, Yea, complete listing data and no lock up yet, Gotta go, will post later, bet it's to good to be true.

Read post with set up, #6571
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17305651&postcount=6571
!!!,

To me it appears there may be an open cap which prevents short term memory storage when power is briefly interrupted.

I'd prefer to leave the 3410A on 24/7 anyway. TVGOS doesn't provide a particulary good EPG, and since mine won't display legibly in hi-def, it's a waste. Since I've compiled a list of every channel/subchannel # in my line-up while wrassling with the RESERVED Catch-22, TVGOS's only redeeming feature, manual channel mapping, isn't important.

I'll just enjoy the exceptional picture, set manual back-up recordings when necessary, and no longer have to fuss with the 3410A at all. Life's Good! ;)

... mine won't display legibly in hi-def...
why not? not that you have to answer, but that's very strange...my guide is clear as anything in high-def and really WOW on my new Pioneer plasma..

In contrast, the guide in our new TivoHD is OK, but - like all of the Tivo screens - seems like something that might have been rescued from the dark ages...

why (won't TVGOS display)? not that you have to answer, but that's very strange...my guide is clear as anything in high-def and really WOW on my new Pioneer plasma..

In contrast, the guide in our new TivoHD is OK, but - like all of the Tivo screens - seems like something that might have been rescued from the dark ages...

Nothing (except perhaps satellite service EPG's, about which I'm not current) beats ReplayTV's standard-def EPG, IMHO!

Regarding my 3410A's TVGOS display; it's perfect @ 480i or p, but at 720p or 1080i it continuallty flickers and/or shudders much worse than a flourescent going bad. I have no idea why; it's been that way from the get-go on my particular 3410A.

Regarding my 3410A's TVGOS display; it's perfect @ 480i or p, but at 720p or 1080i it continuallty flickers and/or shudders much worse than a flourescent going bad. I have no idea why; it's been that way from the get-go on my particular 3410A.

A idea. Son complained of horrible refresh rate on 3yr. old 46" Sam LCD effecting some HD viewing differently, till he got a Panny Plasma like Tony, $1,150-52", it's awsome. One problem, his blue ray, it worked a lot better/clearer on my DLP then Panny. Could that effect yours?

PS Our elec goes out at least once a week, batt back on everything, think it surges when big pole breaker resets. Sugar Land TX

3410A requires that resolution settings be selected from the front panel controls. I get great images from 3410A @ either 720p or 1080i; only the TVGOS display flickers and shudders beyond watchability!

If it was worth it for me to get a UPS for 3410A I would, but it isn't. It and everything else does have surge protection. It's nice just to watch hi-def TV with the 3410A without fussing!

I prefer leaving all recorders (except the Sony) on 24/7. The Sony is set to turn itself off automatically to get TVGOS data.

Where can I find the step by step on how to do this and set it up?
What's Artecs model number, so I can find one?

Read post #6571 Set up, and putting updates there, testing-bugs-changes, DVT Pal should work on same set up.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=17305651&postcount=6571


Artec T3APR-T (only this model had tvgos support or the DVT-Pal)
Still testing, Betting on 50/50 chance of stability. I've been trying to get it to work on 3410 for 8 months, exteremly finicky, I'd wait till firmware is upgraded, mine has 1.0.3.

Not even sure which/what AV forum tricks I encoporated in set up that got it working,
+ it might lock up 3410s more than our norm or Rovi may stop/change CBS support, who knows.

++Having a bad, guide host channel lost, issue, not updating data, Trying to fix-see set up. Dxmn it.

I found the dealer that was on MV/Rovi's website. There are lot more DVT-Pal users to help than Artec, but boxes are almost the same. They may not still sell it, a lot of bad info in both manuals and from Rovi.

Regarding the post:

"Update 2 Just one lock up my fault, to big schd and moved to fast."

I encountered that often when I was doing my: "Tour of TVG Frustration"

Crashing while Scrolling through TVG Channel Editing was a regular occurrance.... I found you were best off to do it only after a power cycle.... As the closer you got to 3 days since power cycle, the more apt it would lockup.... and ALL your TVG Editing changes were lost...
Another symptom that TVG had become" buggy".....

In all honesty, it's been smooth sailing since we Disabled TVG on our 3410a's....

No power cycles, No missed recordings.... No Problems!!! It's been what, 3 months now?

SHAME ON --- TVG/MACROVISION/__________

Regarding the post:
"Update 2 Just one lock up my fault, to big schd and moved to fast."
I encountered that often, SHAME ON --- TVG/MACROVISION/__________

Jan, Thank you for helping, us TVGOS die hards.

Have some spare time? Can you and/or Tony comment on/help:

A Post ----If it all keeps working & if I'm still getting just a few lock ups, just two., I will merge Artecs channel 3 with Comcast analog feed later, probably block cable 2, 3, & 4 then merge Artecs cnl. 3 with 'em, (unless someone has a easier work around.) For now I'll quick swap them when recording cable stuff., if not stable I'll let data run out in a week, unplug Artec & go back to VCR+.

Question-----When I merge them with spliter it makes all fuzzy, not confident TVGOS signal will come through, when merged with cable analog that also has channel 3, confused.

A Bug----Repaired my guide host! the only way it worked was changed my zip-it's working. As hoped it came up, with question about cable channel assignments, and as before, it's showing, a Hou. KZJL (spanish), on cable channel 3, no logo, 3410 might be locking on it insted my CBS I changed to 3, it's one I had edited out before, when I lost the hosts.
It's filled listings/data. Still checking it.

Recently 3410 has changed my vib host to and from 0X3 to 0X801, + forgot what/how to decode that channel. may be acting up, like yours, as had a new, 2nd, no reason lock up.

Question-----If, say it's working again, is it, hard to lock hosts? If I do lock, I'm wondering if in the future - my host ,vib/Rovi/everthing changes, will I have to do that b-day reset, in order to re-run set up, to find changes?

I'll be checking/tracking/recording, 753159852 message, if hosts fails again, so if I must, lock 'em on..
Tks Rich

I just sent the following email to all the contacts I ever had at TVG/Macrovision/________ Suggesting that they reply to the post that was just made.....

TO: Email List: TVG

"Just thought you'd like to know that I have had ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEMS with my LG3410a since I DISABLED TVG!! NOT ONE PROBLEM IN 3+ Months on 4 machines!!!

Oh, yes, there's an interesting thread on the 3410a forum indicating that you're sending out corrupt data that intentionally locks up 3410a's with your TVG data....

You folks should really reply to it.... See, it's not just me that thinks it is your data that's corrupt!!!

Here is just what's been posted:

"Thanks RJ. Nice to have someone else in Houston going through the same non-sense.

First time I used Artec, I learned quickly that you could set up just "one" station (11-1), and not even bother with auto scan. But even with auto scan I have not had problems with the additional stations.

I have had (with the Artec) 11-1 show up as both QVC RF3 and KZJL Spanish RF 3...either was really the 11-1.

Whenever Rovi sends out some sort of "poop" that locks up the box, I can see it on the Heap Info page. See Pic 7838: If "Allocated" and "Used Space" are not equal - then as soon as the record button is used the box will lock up. Of course depending on what the box is doing those numbers can (will) constantly change, but as long as they are equal the box will not lock up.

I have tried all sorts of different hook-ups of the Artec with the SonyBox; the only one that really works correctly is with the Artec being on cable input by itself and the antenna being on the antenna input. When the Artec is combined with anything else all sorts of problems arise.

IMO, because the legacy grid (from the Artec) and digital normal grid (regular OTA 11-1) are not compatible I will be attempting something new at primetime today (Saturday), then will attempt remove Artec in the morning, and quickly change zip code to Dallas.....theory is I will continue to receive digital downloads into a legacy built grid; but because digital host cannot be set I would no longer have memory conflicts. At least that is the theory.

I am PO'ed at Rovi, it is if they are intentionally sending out poop to lock up the box. And of course their failure to send out "correct" normal digital poop so the box can set HostChannel without the use of Artec to begin with, is the major issue!
***************"

----- Original Message -----
From: Jan & Eileen
To: Jan & Eileen ; Todd; Jay; Nick
Sent: Sunday, September 06, 2009 8:02 AM
Subject: Now that TVG is disabled, LG3410a works flawlessly, How about a rebate?


As I've mentioned to you many times.... TVG USED TO WORK with the LG3410a units --- until last year, when "Something" happened....

Since none of the units that I have have changed, my thinking is that something changed in the data you sent from your end, causing the lockups and data loss as received from you.

I've contacted you multiple times trying to resolve this... and have been told multiple times that it cannot be fixed... Whereas last year you said you didn't have an LG3410a, the last conversation I had with you folks in August of this year; You admitted to me over the phone that you are experiencing the same lockup issues that everyone else has encountered on an LG3410a, just like everyone else has encountered since last year.

So, I found a way to disable TVG from the LG3410a. Remove C493.

That disables TVG, and the 3 day lockups, and allows the LG3410a to function normally as a VCR+ Only controlled unit!

TVG USED TO WORK! When I bought my first one, 5+ years ago, it worked.... It got better when it was determined that some of the field data was sent incorrectly.... and then it worked flawlessly for years...... until 2008. From 2008 till the present, you'll receive Data, but it will Lock Up and render useless the LG3410a. It used to work!

Isn't it embarrassing that an end user had to find a way of 'getting around' this problem?

Ever since removing C493, EVERY LG3410a that has had this modification done to it, has worked FLAWLESSLY as a VCR+ DVR!!!

Seeing that you folks told me multiple times that there was no work arounds for this problem, I thought you'd like an update on this....

Jan J

Well I see your post above. But I don't understand it, or see the connection? If you know something "magical" for Houston let me know.

BTW, I have set up Sony Boxes in Dallas, St. Louis, and New Orleans all without problems and Artec was "not" required...........but since June 12th Houston has not been reliable. So far I have not found an answer.

Jan J Well I see your post above. But I don't understand it, or see the connection? If you know something "magical" for Houston let me know.
BTW, I have set up Sony Boxes in Dallas, St. Louis, and New Orleans all without problems and Artec was "not" required...........but since June 12th Houston has not been reliable. So far I have not found an answer.

Jan has been trying to get Rovi/MV to help for years, very smart and has broadcast industry credentials, and has been on the phone with 'em and he or us have never recieved any info from them that helped. Kinda suprised he found that CBS has brodcast info. CIA syndrome!.

Comcast in Hou. informed me 5 mo. ago that they would not support analog TVGOS and Rovi says they do, they aren't, Rovi won't bother to call them or tell us any brodcast details, about anything, Betting their smart set up programers are long gone, now I get vauge replys or outdated form letter info. Catch 22 and 23!.

We did pay for their service when we bought our high dollar products. May be, changing Corp. names & owners, TV Guide/M.V./Rovi, in order to make it complicated & in lew of paying for good programers, give any support, while hoping we go away, or let us to do any effective complaining, Like this!

He's been trying to get Rovi/MV to help for years, very smart and has broadcast industry credentials, and has been on the phone with 'em and he or us have never recieved any info from them that helped. CIA syndrome.

Comcast in Hou. informed me 5 mo. ago that they would not support analog TVGOS and Rovi says they do, they aren't, Rovi won't bother to call them or tell us any brodcast details, about anything, Betting their smart set up programers are long gone, now I get vauge replys or outdated form letter info. catch 22 and 23.

We did pay for their service when we bought or high dollar products.

Thanks RJ

I will let you know how it turns out the next couple of days.

After reading the article in todays' Wall Street, it looks like the days of OTA are very limited. Looks like all TV will be pay only in just a couple of years? The FCC keeps chopping away all the RF's - soon it will be gone. And if rumors are true Comcast plans to sell off the NBC spectrum nationally?

Thanks RJ I will let you know how it turns out the next couple of days.
After reading the article in todays' Wall Street, it looks like the days of OTA are very limited.
Looks like all TV will be pay only in just a couple of years?
The FCC keeps chopping away all the RF's - soon it will be gone. And if rumors are true Comcast plans to sell off the NBC spectrum nationally?

Venting time out:
Oh, that's just great, 1 big solar flare, crashing satelites and USA won't have any communications at all. Do they even have any brains?
--We'll have to watch longer/louder commercials, pop up TV adds, and pay to watch'em.--
Shouldn't extremely loud digital commercials be stopped by sublimetal message broadcast laws??
They got away with it years ago and didn't get popped for it, now they think they can ramp it up another 20%. Do advertizers actually give broadcasters millions to do it?
All about the $$. Somebody should mention this to FCC, for all the good it would do, Remember the Madolf warnings?

[QUOTE=Jan J;17320868]]
I just sent the following email to all the contacts I ever had at TVG/Macrovision
-------
Jan, Here's my new TVGOS email, you got me going.
Jan, did you add Ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com,
-----------
to"mailto:Ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com CE_Customer_Support" <ce_customer_support@macrovision.com>
Sun, Oct 11, 2009 at 10:18 AM
subject A TVGOS question, RJ

Rovi technical support team and/or Lou Confrancisco

Comcast in Houston is not supporting TVGOS on analog as your statement to me before,
:you do not need a converter box for your set up; Comcast will be converting our data back to analog for you. Now there is a problem in your area and our broadcast engineers are working on this.

When on Comcasts anolog cable the TVGOS message 753159852, gives no hosts. old Case # 1029982.

BTW when on unstable Artec only, broadcast channel 3, it gives and drops 0X3 and vib 0X3 changes.

Can you HELP and/or might you look at my recent post, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17314601#post17314601

PS Don’t want to use converters, but the digital tvgos Artec & Pal, when we do get them working, broadcast info is unstable, it stops download data after a day, gives sattered intermitant listing data, and we drop host cannsls, and your recommended hook up procedure with g-link on converters doesn’t work for us

After the last power outage I First Birthday'd 3410A to reset the clock. I then rebooted it, causing the RESERVED light to come on, blocking TVGOS access even though there are no pending recordings scheduled, and manually entered all the receivable cable channels, both analog and digital, ignoring E-Z Scan which is blocked by the RESERVED light.

I then left 3410A on 24/7 for a week and two days, after which the RESERVED light went out. I've left 3410A on 24/7 ever since, making no attempts to set up TVGOS. It's working fine as a tuner with manual recording capability.

Since a week is the time period for TVGOS to populate, I wonder if the RESERVED light will always come on for over a week after a power outage and then turn off. Have to wait to find out.

Life's good. No more fussing! :)

Since a week is the time period for TVGOS to populate, I wonder if the RESERVED light will always come on for over a week after a power outage and then turn off. Have to wait to find out.
Life's good. No more fussing! :)
Info no reply needed:
Just a new 3410a quirk,
After Artec uptdated clock, I couldn't change it, it wasn't even greyed out, something to do with clock or data updates, thinking not to do with reserved, it, may have been on vcr+,reserved, but not greyed out, and could't change it
--Weird, you go figure it out.--

Aretec working better so far. not locking. Life is good, mabe better when kids move out and/or dating a playmate!

If Artec is accessing TVGOS you're no longer able to reset the clock. That's why my 3410A's Catch-22 is such a drag; it needs an accurate clock to access TVGOS, but can't get an accurate clock unless it's already accessing TVGOS or gets a First Birthday reset.

If Artec is accessing TVGOS you're no longer able to reset the clock. That's why my 3410A's Catch-22 is such a drag; it needs an accurate clock to access TVGOS, but can't get an accurate clock unless it's already accessing TVGOS or gets a First Birthday reset.
FW
Just stopped clock set, that one time, and it already just had reset clock, to time zone/zip picked, no grey out, probaly was 1/2 in the middle of a data download. The norm. is anytime, when recordings are schedualed or reserved it's greyed out till they'er removed, and I change clock to wrong time to see that tvgos is resetting it/ working in lew of turning 3410 on to see. . Artec is working and can't/won't check manual clock reset as to many shows schedualed to redo.

Try and let Pal, not cable, reset clock, as it'll do that before downloading, pal only on cable in, rescan, new local zip, tune to CBS after turning off cbs sub-channel, then turn on tvgos support, it should change clock even if set to 2008, or not, you know all I know, you gave up, now I give up on your bug, good luck,

PS Might read next post, HPs workaround & spiffspace, bye.
RJ

Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonPerson
RJ, I sent Rovi an email last Thursday, and one about 10 days before that. So far no response, and I really do not expect one. If I get a response I will let you know.
Anyway, without HostChannel I can easily get a full 8 day Grid, and set all recordings and the box does not lock up. At this point I have no idea how long that will last - the Artec is not connected in this operations. I used the Artec only to get the initial grid, and it "must" be connected to the cable input on the Sony, and I used antenna input for just the antenna (not the Artec). When the Artec was "combined" on antenna it cause a memory lock up condition. (hope that made sense?).
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=204.60

HP
Very interesting, Hou.Comcast listing/data!, and clock-reset and schedual from Artec.

Your Sony might, be searching/finding a data or vib host channel on comcast during power off, and not recording the host when on, as was set to Artec? Who knows or your Sony gets some OTA digital data, (hope not). Who cares if it works!
Don't change it and remember procedure.

THANKS, I'll try it soon, as merging flubs up, and want to record some cable shows anyway.
RJ

RJ, The first post here is the procedure, along with the "revision" (note 7 dated October 14 2009)

http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.0

The Sony Box has worked perfectly up to one month, until such time that Rovi sends out a conflicting Grid which cause memory lock up.

This last go around has been working perfect for nearly a week; but last night TVGOS was stopped, I do not yet know the cause; but it appears the service is back on this morning? Not yet fully confirmed.

I will have a better understanding when MySonyBox goes through its next NumSearch within about 12 hours..........that should ??? tell me if Rovi has made more changes in Houston?

In any event the Artec procedure in the link above is "rock solid" and very quick.

RJ, The first post here is the procedure, along with the "revision" (note 7 dated October 14 2009)
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.0
The Sony Box has worked perfectly up to one month, until such time that Rovi sends out a conflicting Grid which cause memory lock up.
This last go around has been working perfect for nearly a week; but last night TVGOS was stopped, I do not yet know the cause; but it appears the service is back on this morning? Not yet fully confirmed.
I will have a better understanding when MySonyBox goes through its next NumSearch within about 12 hours..........that should ??? tell me if Rovi has made more changes in Houston?
In any event the Artec procedure in the link above is "rock solid" and very quick.

HP
THANKS, Good, please, keep updating, If we get your workaround stable I may nick name you HewlettPackard person.

Trying tonight as my 3410a , Artec enabled, power off, TVGOS light is coming off and on.


PS Tried to post on Spiff, register'd , to complicated to navigate, can't edit post, I'll just reply here.
RJ

After a many month hiatus my 3410a is backup and running reliably except for sub-channel listings in the TVG. But, if I recall correctly, I don't think the TVG on my 3410a has ever listed any sub-channels. I can manually tune sub-channels they just don't show up in the guide. Anyway, I'm OTA only in San Diego with an analog host. Is their a way to make the sub-channels show up in the guide or is my box exhibiting a uniquely bizarre quirk?

I never had subchannel listings, either.

Who is the analog host? I hope the same corporation owns them here in Sacramento.

I never had subchannel listings, either.
Who is the analog host? I hope the same corporation owns them here in Sacramento.

Unfortunately, it's our local CW station XETV broadcasting from Tijuana Mexico. Mexico will complete its digital transition in 2021. :eek:

After a many month hiatus my 3410a is backup and running reliably except for sub-channel listings in the TVG. But, if I recall correctly, I don't think the TVG on my 3410a has ever listed any sub-channels. I can manually tune sub-channels they just don't show up in the guide. Anyway, I'm OTA only in San Diego with an analog host. Is their a way to make the sub-channels show up in the guide or is my box exhibiting a uniquely bizarre quirk?I don't know if there's even less now, but the v7 guide never really listed all the subchannels, low-powered channels, and generally receivable out of market stations in most areas (like newer versions do) - mainly because it has limited memory for the amount of channels they can have in there.

If they add anything more, they have to take them away one for one (including from all the cable channels). They were occasionally dropping a cable channel to add a sub, but they reached a point a couple or so years ago where they just stopped doing that altogether. Cable took precedence after a point, probably, and whatever filled the listings in the editor's memory (in each area) was considered most important, and they didn't want to drop anything more.

Actually, I don't know if it was even thought out that carefully - they may have just wanted to not even deal with it anymore (I have a couple of v7 recorders myself, along with newer versions - v7 added a few subchannels earlier on, but stopped after a certain point. The most they ever do now is keep the ones that already exist up to date with the changes).

That's really the one, biggest difference between v7 and the newer versions.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270434415815
The above link goes to the last 3410A sold on eBay. It sold for $300 including shipping.

---
I've documented my 3410A's various hiccups throughout this thread. The straw that finally causes me to want to get rid of it, is that, as previously reported, it won't stay tuned to many hi-def channels 24/7 without losing their signal; always precisely at the top of the hour, but usually for only part of the 24 hour cycle.

I really don't recommend the 3410A for most people, but if a Forum reader wants it, I'll ship it for $250 in its original box, with remote and manual. Its case is in excellent+ condition and the recorder is consistent in the ways it continually fugs up. If you need something to constantly fiddle with, this is it! :eek:

Actually, once C394 is removed, the unit is suprisingly stable!!!
No TVG, Just VCR+, but stable as a rock!

Another option you might want to consider is move to San Diego, your 3410a's TVG will work until 2021, and you can trade in that snow shovel for a beach towel and surfboard. ;)

...I've documented my 3410A's various hiccups throughout this thread. The straw that finally causes me to want to get rid of it, is that, as previously reported, it won't stay tuned to many hi-def channels 24/7 without losing their signal; always precisely at the top of the hour, but usually for only part of the 24 hour cycle.

I really don't recommend the 3410A for most people, but if a Forum reader wants it, I'll ship it... If you need something to constantly fiddle with, this is it! :eek:

Actually, once C394 is removed, the unit is suprisingly stable!!!...

The de-tuning issue has nothing to do with EPG or lack of it.

Something in a subchannel's signal sent either on the hour or between programs causes my 3410A to routinely de-tune certain subchannels; even some non hi-def subchannels. CNN on 116-7 routinely turns into a watchable Animal Planet on 116-82, although 116-7 remains displayed on the front panel. Most de-tuning results in 'no signal received'. :confused:

I called KCTS, Seattle PBS, and the engineer I spoke with couldn't identify the problem and hadn't heard about it from anyone else. None of my other TVGOS recorders has such problems. It's possible that the 3410A is reacting to something that Comcast does here and wouldn't evidence the same de-tuning elsewhere.

Another option you might want to consider is move to San Diego, your 3410a's TVG will work until 2021, and you can trade in that snow shovel for a beach towel and surfboard. ;)

Yeah! Back to the future! :eek:

Ocean Beach is the quintessential beach town; as good as it gets! I lived there in a friend's garage for a summer in the 60's! Isn't the wooden roller coaster on nearby Mission Beach's causeway long gone?

For being as far north as Bellingham is, the climate is surprisingly moderate. New England is much colder and snowier, for example.

After spending half a lifetime in So. Calif., experiencing rain in the woods in view of a snow capped volcano is also quintessential! :)

RJ, The first post here is the procedure, along with the "revision" (note 7 dated October 14 2009)
http://www.spiffspace.com/forum/index.php?topic=188.0

The Sony Box has worked perfectly up to one month, until such time that Rovi sends out a conflicting Grid which cause memory lock up.
This last go around has been working perfect for nearly a week; but last night TVGOS was stopped, I do not yet know the cause; but it appears the service is back on this morning? Not yet fully confirmed.
In any event the Artec procedure in the link above is "rock solid" and very quick.

HP
Comcast analog in Hou., My 3410a won't update guide listing data from them as your Sony does, may be yours has newer firmware-our old 7.1, has always had reception/data problems/locks.

While reviewing your set up, noticed you skipped alot of my Artec set up tricks/tests & I found your Sony/Artec comment------

So in an attempt to reduce time even more I attempted to “combine” the Artec with the Antenna feed to the Sony (no cable used here). That method was listed as Option A in Note 1 above. Short Story: It did not work successfully in Houston. A memory conflict was created which locked up the Sony Box. There are at least a couple of reasons it was unsuccessful. 1) I left the Artec connected for a period of about 30 minutes while re-aligning the Grid and turning the appropriate channels either “on” or “off”. Or 2) the Houston TVGOS received via digital was in conflict with the legacy TVGOS received from the Artec. Perhaps, Rovi was sending out the extremely rare HostChannel command (New Grid) which conflicts with the legacy Grid and that created the memory conflict. Regardless a memory conflict was generated. Others have reported “lock ups” as well – but AFAIK did not identify the source. There were also other anomalies when using the “combination” feed method, irregularities in tuning, and interference of the digital signal through the Artec to the Sony Box. The Artec is after all an analogue pass-through device, it is not really classified as a digital pass-through device

--- insightful, and thinking it may help us if I can figure it all out.


UPDATE - The Artec dosen't want to update data after editing 3410s channels, have to change zip, new quirk. must be dropping/changing hosts.

Artec set up, working on stablizing it. on http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17305651#post17305651

ALL COMMENTS APPRECIATED
Thanks
RJ

Yeah! Back to the future! :eek:
Ocean Beach is the quintessential beach town; as good as it gets! I lived there in a friend's garage for a summer in the 60's! Isn't the wooden roller coaster on nearby Mission Beach's causeway long gone?

I'm up on the hill side looking out over Ocean Beach and can see the old roller coaster and boardwalk as I type.

For being as far north as Bellingham is, the climate is surprisingly moderate. New England is much colder and snowier, for example.
After spending half a lifetime in So. Calif., experiencing rain in the woods in view of a snow capped volcano is also quintessential! :)
Yea, my parents lived in Seqim, WA and always boasted how dry it was in being in the rain shadow of the Olympics, only 15in/year:eek:


On to some 3410a information:
Seems that even with an OTA analog host I'm starting to get the TVGOS /AV1/2 error about once or twice a week. The old unplug and replug seems to fix the problem but it's strange that it just started with around 4 weeks of flawless operation. I may try clearing the hard drive of saved programs. If I recall during the good old days that this problem would crop up more often when the hard drive began to fill up.

Is the TiVo Hd (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17063966#post17063966) a valid replacement for the 3410? Based on that chart it records OTA/cable and costs $580 without any monthly fees. Has anyone here with a 3410a tried using a TiVo HD as a replacement?

Is the TiVo HD a valid replacement for the 3410?Absolutely. You'd need a CableCARD for digital cable, though - even just limited basic, if you wanted the channels to map correctly and be able to schedule recordings (unless your cable company is one of those rare ones that maps them to their virtual channel numbers).

Is the TiVo Hd (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17063966#post17063966) a valid replacement for the 3410? Based on that chart it records OTA/cable and costs $580 without any monthly fees. Has anyone here with a 3410a tried using a TiVo HD as a replacement?

After getting thoroughly discouraged with my 3410a and Comcast I sort of gave up and got two TivoHD's.

In mid Summer 2009, I was able to locate two Tivo HD boxes at Sears for less than half of the regular price of $299.00. Two of my local Sears stores had them on clearance for around $130.00 each. They were open box but one had never been connected! I then purchased the Lifetime Service agreement via ebay for slightly less than the going rate. The second box was $100.00 less for lifetime. They even talk to each other! Ability to record up to 4 shows at once!!

I love them! Not useful for satellite as I recall but works great via my Comcast connection and can be used with OTA antenna as well.

Long Tivo HD forum here at AVS.

Hope this helps!
Robin

The de-tuning issue has nothing to do with EPG or lack of it.
Something in a subchannel's signal sent either on the hour or between programs causes my 3410A to routinely de-tune certain subchannels; even some non hi-def subchannels. CNN on 116-7 routinely turns into a watchable Animal Planet on 116-82, although 116-7 remains displayed on the front panel. Most de-tuning results in 'no signal received'. :confused::)

Yea, right, digital channeles, OTA. or Quam, has nothing to do with 3410, even if changed, it won't assign host to 'e,m, look for 'em or use 'em.

After getting thoroughly discouraged with my 3410a and Comcast I sort of gave up and got two TivoHD's.
In mid Summer 2009, I was able to locate two Tivo HD boxes at Sears for less than half of the regular price of $299.00. Two of my local Sears stores had them on clearance for around $130.00 each. They were open box but one had never been connected! I then purchased the Lifetime Service agreement via ebay for slightly less than the going rate. The second box was $100.00 less for lifetime. They even talk to each other! Ability to record up to 4 shows at once!!
I love them! Not useful for satellite as I recall but works great via my Comcast connection and can be used with OTA antenna as well.
Long Tivo HD forum here at AVS.
Hope this helps!
Robin

RR
Yes I agree, our hassel isn't worth our effort, to spend 1000 hours to get 3410 TVGOS back!

Seems a dish network @ $40mo. 2 boxes for 4 TVs, each HDDR-records 2 and watch another, & would be good for, good HD programing and not pay Tivo $10mo.+ Comcast $50-90mo., could you rent a comcast HDDR for $5, how much was lifetime for 1-2 TIVO units, do you only want comcast analog & OTA??

Just questions as I'm weighing my options.
THANKS
RJ

I'm up on the hill side looking out over Ocean Beach and can see the old roller coaster and boardwalk as I type.

I'm really glad to hear that! I trust it's operating.

Yea, my parents lived in Seqim, WA and always boasted how dry it was in being in the rain shadow of the Olympics, only 15in/year:eek:

Sequim is about as dry as it gets in NW WA, about what LA, CA averages. We get much more rain, about 35-40". We do get snow and it can get deep, but not routinely.

On to some 3410a information:
Seems that even with an OTA analog host I'm starting to get the TVGOS /AV1/2 error about once or twice a week. The old unplug and replug seems to fix the problem but it's strange that it just started with around 4 weeks of flawless operation. I may try clearing the hard drive of saved programs. If I recall during the good old days that this problem would crop up more often when the hard drive began to fill up.

I'll have to do a thread search for the AV 1/2 error; never had a problem with that. Just the RESERVED Catch 22 lockout!

HP
Comcast analog in Hou., My 3410a won't update guide listing data from them as your Sony does, may be yours has newer firmware-our old 7.1, has always had reception/data problems/locks.

While reviewing your set up, noticed you skipped alot of my Artec set up tricks/tests & I found your Sony/Artec comment------

So in an attempt to reduce time even more I attempted to “combine” the Artec with the Antenna feed to the Sony (no cable used here). That method was listed as Option A in Note 1 above. Short Story: It did not work successfully in Houston. A memory conflict was created which locked up the Sony Box. There are at least a couple of reasons it was unsuccessful. 1) I left the Artec connected for a period of about 30 minutes while re-aligning the Grid and turning the appropriate channels either “on” or “off”. Or 2) the Houston TVGOS received via digital was in conflict with the legacy TVGOS received from the Artec. Perhaps, Rovi was sending out the extremely rare HostChannel command (New Grid) which conflicts with the legacy Grid and that created the memory conflict. Regardless a memory conflict was generated. Others have reported “lock ups” as well – but AFAIK did not identify the source. There were also other anomalies when using the “combination” feed method, irregularities in tuning, and interference of the digital signal through the Artec to the Sony Box. The Artec is after all an analogue pass-through device, it is not really classified as a digital pass-through device

--- insightful, and thinking it may help us if I can figure it all out.


UPDATE - The Artec dosen't want to update data after editing 3410s channels, have to change zip, new quirk. must be dropping/changing hosts.

Artec set up, working on stablizing it. on http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17305651#post17305651

ALL COMMENTS APPRECIATED
Thanks
RJ

RJ, ok I think I can follow most of what you are saying?

1) the 3410a is a version 7 device, it that correct? (the Sony is version 8)
That means I have zero knowledge about the 3410a. If it is a version 7 device I do not think it will get listings via normal digital downloads. see item 3 below

2) You are keeping the Artec connected to the 3410a while editing and changing the channel list? That procedure does not work on the Sony Box, the Artec has to be removed before you can change things (edit channels etc)........attempting to edit channels with Artec connected causes the Sony to go crazy (insane)............so as soon as a Listing Grid is obtained from the Artec in the Sony, the Artec is removed, and a Sony zip code routine of "00000" is used, and then back to actual zip code..........then you can edit the grid (channels) all you want without problems. I do not know if that will work in the 3410a or not? Remember when the "00000" routine is used and you remove the Artec you say "no" to cable (where the Artec was), and "yes" again to antenna.

3) If the 3410a is a version 7 device, then a way will have to be discoverd to use the Artec on a full time basis - which I think is what you are trying to do? Therefore a way to use the special remote codes and maybe a G Link device will need to be used? Does the 3410a have a G-Link thing? If so that might work.........but I have no knowledge on how to make that work.

4) side note: I noticed you talked about 11-2 for TVGOS, but honestly I think that is in-correct. By that I mean I have used the Artec a few times, and have even done the Factory Reset on the Artec, so that "no" channels are in the tunner. Then just tune to 11-1 (or just 11), and then turn TVGOS "on" - without ever scanning for channels in the Artec. That and that alone will produce a pure and clean legacy (analogue) TVGOS on RF 3. Based on that the theory would be, how to get the 3410a to work with that (this is assuming it is a version 7 device).


Please take every thing I said with a grain of salt, because again I have no knowledge on the 3410a device.

Has anyone here with a 3410a tried using a TiVo HD as a replacement?

I've got and use both.

TiVo works reliably.

(sarcasm) But I only use TiVo when I don't feel like fiddling endlessly. :D

RJ, ok I think I can follow most of what you are saying?

...

Please take every thing I said with a grain of salt, because again I have no knowledge on the 3410a device.
HP - with due regard to your Sony experience (one of which I have), it is basically irrelevant to the 3410a, and one CAN get the Pal (and I presume the Artec) to provide data continuously to the 3410a, and indicated in my setup notes below and (perhaps by others in this thread, using the artec)...

However, I've - at least for the time being - quit trying to do this, because I am SO sick of having to do a reboot of the 3410a nightly if I want it to keep getting listings...which I had to do most of LAST year, too, even when the listings were directly from an analog station...

HP - with due regard to your Sony experience (one of which I have), it is basically irrelevant to the 3410a, and one CAN get the Pal (and I presume the Artec) to provide data continuously to the 3410a, and indicated in my setup notes below and (perhaps by others in this thread, using the artec)...

However, I've - at least for the time being - quit trying to do this, because I am SO sick of having to do a reboot of the 3410a nightly if I want it to keep getting listings...which I had to do most of LAST year, too, even when the listings were directly from an analog station...

Ok, thanks that will prolly save RJ some time then.

(With HDTiVo) You'd need a CableCARD for digital cable, though - even just limited basic, if you wanted the channels to map correctly and be able to schedule recordings (unless your cable company is one of those rare ones that maps them to their virtual channel numbers).

The other currently available hi-def DVR, Moxi, while more expensive than HDTiVo, offers several features better suited for viewers who don't watch everything timeshifted.

Moxi's dual recording buffers are much longer than TiVo's skimpy half hour and range from 1.5 to 3 hrs.

Moxi provides for manually mapping unscrambled QAM, as does TVGOS, but its method is much easier to use than TVGOS's.

Moxi can't record automatically from OTA; it's not even supposed to receive OTA, but can be fooled into receiving and manually recording standard-def OTA from a CECB, using an analog tuning dongle, included with Moxi if requested when Moxi is purchased. Using the dongle as intended, Moxi can record 3 programs simultaneously, 2 in hi-def plus a standard def program from analog cable.

The Moxi Mate, supposedly still available for a discounted $200, allows streaming from Moxi to a remote location in realtime without being blocked by cable co.'s copy flags for premium content as HDTiVo's file transfer system often is.

Moxi isn't as rock steady as TiVo, the Gold Standard, but is within the same order of magnitude regarding reliability. The company behind Moxi, Digeo, has recently been aquired by Arris, which has made some prospective buyers nervous. Arris has an impressive but potentially risky gameplan:
http://www.arrisi.com/investor_relations/presentations/090922_ARRIS_Digeo.pdf

I've got Moxi and Mate, S3 TiVo and HDTiVo, besides my old unfaithful 3410A!

---
Wonder of wonders! My 3410A has remained tuned to and is still receiving hi-def KING-TV, Seattle this morning after being left on ch. 85-2 last night. Such was not the case 2 nights ago!

RR
Yes I agree, our hassel isn't worth our effort, to spend 1000 hours to get 3410 TVGOS back!

Seems a dish network @ $40mo. 2 boxes for 4 TVs, each HDDR-records 2 and watch another, & would be good for, good HD programing and not pay Tivo $10mo.+ Comcast $50-90mo., could you rent a comcast HDDR for $5, how much was lifetime for 1-2 TIVO units, do you only want comcast analog & OTA??

Just questions as I'm weighing my options.
THANKS
RJ

HI RJ!!

First off, I hate every nickel I give Comcast so I do not know about their DVR option! I still have basic cable without their box! I guess that will change soon?! I am not close enough to most towers for OTA either for the Tivo or the LG.

But, Tivo.com's regular price for the first Tivo Box Lifetime (never pay again for the life of this single box) is $399. 2nd (and additional) boxes are $100 less. Check ebay for the first subscription. Mine was about $65 less on ebay. Well worth it for me, especially since I got such a great deal on the two Tivo HD boxes! Tivo can be tuned to and record Comcast's QAM without a card but no guide listings without the card for these channels.

Good luck!
Robin
PS: Also check ebay for a TivoHD box with lifetime included! Some good deals there, too! One Tivo box has a DVD player/recorder as well.

I've got Moxi and Mate, S3 TiVo and HDTiVo, besides my old unfaithful 3410A!What - no Sony?

Actually, once C394 is removed, the unit is suprisingly stable!!!
No TVG, Just VCR+, but stable as a rock!


I have removed C394. I just noticed my clock is 2 minutes fast. When I went to change it, I was told no, since I have scheduled recordings. I pulled the plug, but no change. It's not a major problem, but is it to be expected?

What - no Sony?

Shhh!

Got more'n one! TVGOS Ver. 8 is a significant improvement. One of my Sony's uses OTA CIVT-TV CTV Vancouver, BC Ch. 32 as its host.

They all work well whether on Comcast or OTA.

Of the 4 we have here (sans C493) one is running a minute ahead of others... (But we have since got them all back in sync....)
You can do two things...
1. Wait till recordings are over, then set clock, or....
2. Since you are using VCR+ Set the IN and OUT points accordingly... (specially so if you have lots of Daily or Weekly recordings)


Either will work :)!

Don't bother with the pull the plug to fix it repair.... It won't work now.... (That only worked for TVG Board, which now is in perpetual "Hunt" mode!
Removed scheduled recordings, Set clock, and put scheduled recordings back in again...

Or offset start & Stop times!

Thankfully they left renaming in the program editor.... My wife labels the shows after they are recorded, as she doesn't get to view them for a few days, and having 8 or so programs all with no title can get confusing...

Isn't the TVG Light "on" with every power off enough to give you a chuckle??? At times I feel like I've "Gotten Even" :D!

Of the 4 we have here (sans C493) one is running a minute ahead of others...
You can do two things...
1. Wait till recordings are over, then set clock, or....
2. Since you are using VCR+ Set the IN and OUT points accordingly... (specially so if you have lots of Daily or Weekly recordings)


Either will work :)!

Don't bother with the pull the plug to fix it repair.... It won't work now.... (That only worked for TVG Board, which now is in perpetual "Hunt" mode!
Removed scheduled recordings, Set clock, and put scheduled recordings back in again...

Or offset start & Stop times!

Thankfully they left renaming in the program editor.... My wife labels the shows after they are recorded, as she doesn't get to view them for a few days, and having 8 or so programs all with no title can get confusing...

Isn't the TVG Light "on" with every power off enough to give you a chuckle??? At times I feel like I've "Gotten Even" :D!

Thanks. I will offset the start times for now, since the time is fast. As for the white box, mine used to come on every morning for 15 seconds at 6:40am. Not that it might mean anything, but that's exactly the same time my Sony DHD has a clock set. Makes me wonder.....

RJ
2) You are keeping the Artec connected to the 3410a while editing and changing the channel list? That procedure does not work on the Sony Box, the Artec has to be removed before you can change things (edit channels etc)........attempting to edit channels with Artec connected causes the Sony to go crazy (insane)............so as soon as a Listing Grid is obtained from the Artec in the Sony, the Artec is removed, and a Sony zip code routine of "00000" is used, and then back to actual zip code..........then you can edit the grid (channels) all you want without problems. I do not know if that will work in the 3410a or not? Remember when the "00000" routine is used and you remove the Artec you say "no" to cable (where the Artec was), and "yes" again to antenna.

3) If the 3410a is a version 7 device, then a way will have to be discoverd to use the Artec on a full time basis - which I think is what you are trying to do? Therefore a way to use the special remote codes and maybe a G Link device will need to be used? Does the 3410a have a G-Link thing? If so that might work.........but I have no knowledge on how to make that work.

4) side note: I noticed you talked about 11-2 for TVGOS, but honestly I think that is in-correct. By that I mean I have used the Artec a few times, and have even done the Factory Reset on the Artec, so that "no" channels are in the tunner. Then just tune to 11-1 (or just 11), and then turn TVGOS "on" - without ever scanning for channels in the Artec. That and that alone will produce a pure and clean legacy (analogue) TVGOS on RF 3. Based on that the theory would be, how to get the 3410a to work with that (this is assuming it is a version 7 device).
.

HP -Thanks

#2 Yes, I had Artec connected when editiing schedual channel #s, I won't now.

Never heard of 00000 zip reset for 3410a, but will try it, not sure of your proceedure, after saying no to cable when entering 00000, did you turn unit off/on then say yes to cable when changed back to your zip, in order to use/plug in analog cable with TVGOS data?

#3 Others have tried g-link on DVT-Pal/3410a with no success plus I don't have 1, do you have a extra?.

#4 I did Artec factory reset and tuned to 11-1, was a lot easyier, but sub 11-2 showed up, as the only other channel on Artec, so I turned it off in channel editor, my thinking it wouldn't hurt.

RJ

RJ

For the “00000” routine follow the instructions in this picture (change the 5 minutes to 6 minutes).

Assuming the LG works like the Sony?????. Then be sure to “select” (finish) through all screens to the end – each time you change the zip code.

On the Sony once you get past the first screen (zip code screen)……..with the Artec connected it is “yes” to cable and “yes” to antenna. Then physically remove the Artec. Do the “00000” routine. Then when the Sony (LG) is turned back on and the TV Guide button is hit (or turned back on)………the set up routine begins again, then enter the correct zip codes and answer all the questions to the end (such as “no” to cable and “yes” to antenna). (you may want to try just OTA for a while?)

But as others have said the Artec is still no solution for the LG.

Also, keep in mind TVGOS has been “OFF” in Houston for TWO days now and it is still “OFF”.

I also, see serveral are reporting it is "off" in several other cities?

RJ
For the “00000” routine follow the instructions in this picture (change the 5 minutes to 6 minutes).
Assuming the LG works like the Sony?????. Then be sure to “select” (finish) through all screens to the end – each time you change the zip code.
On the Sony once you get past the first screen (zip code screen)……..with the Artec connected it is “yes” to cable and “yes” to antenna. Then physically remove the Artec. Do the “00000” routine. Then when the Sony (LG) is turned back on and the TV Guide button is hit (or turned back on)………the set up routine begins again, then enter the correct zip codes and answer all the questions to the end (such as “no” to cable and “yes” to antenna). (you may want to try just OTA for a while?)
But as others have said the Artec is still no solution for the LG.
Also, keep in mind TVGOS has been “OFF” in Houston for TWO days now and it is still “OFF”.
I also, see serveral are not reporting it is "off" in several other cities?

HP
It's Saturday afternoon and had a beer, so I'll read/study your reply tommorrow.

I may have tried Comcast after it stopped broadcasting for you, let me know if they get it going again..

Later
RJ

O)
Thankfully they left renaming in the program editor.... My wife labels the shows after they are recorded, as she doesn't get to view them for a few days, and having 8 or so programs all with no title can get confusing...
:D!

Jan
Sat. evening, 4+beers.

Is there a way, to use vcr+ program codes, without tvgos working? It might give a recording title.

Is there any way, to get someone to get/modify us a 8.0 firmware that would work on 3410a?

Thanks Jan

No thanks Korea LG, our life's not good, in your hands.

RJ

Jan

Is there a way, to use vcr+ program codes, without tvgos working? It might give a recording title.

Is there any way, to get someone to get/modify us a 8.0 firmware that would work on 3410a?

where do you get vcr+ program codes these days?

you can pretty much forget upgrading to version 8...whole different deal, and probably requires a hardware upgrade...(I'm speculating on the latter, but not on the former)

Tony

I also, see serveral are reporting it is "off" in several other cities?The signal can't be "off" completely for the person who made that post, if they're getting what they are in the ad box on the bottom left.

RJ, just so you know.....TVGOS is back on in Houston. Started about midnight last night. Over on the Sony Box thread it looks like it was off for many in the USA; and most have reported it back on Sunday Morning.

where do you get vcr+ program codes these days?

you can pretty much forget upgrading to version 8...whole different deal, and probably requires a hardware upgrade...(I'm speculating on the latter, but not on the former)

Tony

I don't get VCR+ codes..... But it gives me a Date/Start/Stop/Channel selection, like an old VCR, and it WORKS!!!

You know, If the TVG/Macrovision/____ Folks each had a 3410a, do you think we'd be in the position we are right now? No... They would have found a work around..... To make theirselves, and their wife's happy!!!

I'm selling one of these on eBay if anyone is interested. It's item number 120487292674. It always worked fine for me but I use a HTPC now so I don't need it anymore.

[QUOTE=Jan J;17416322]I don't get VCR+ codes..... But it gives me a Date/Start/Stop/Channel selection, like an old VCR, and it WORKS!!!QUOTE]

Jan

I'm joining you on VCR+.
I don't get listing data from Comcast, so no lockups!
I can still update my clock using Artec for 1 minute, thus I don't have to reprogram my 12 shows schedualed on VCR+.
So keeping my Cap for now.

FW
Might try Pal again, set on CBS-Dig on 3 out, to reset clock when it fails, works for my RESERVED clock lockout, I get now like you.

RJ

For, you who wants to inject, your DVT-Pal or Artec into your Comcast cable, here's my scoop, FWIW.

AC7-3E: Channel 3 Injector (5 - 750 MHz bandwidth)
Best choice! No price yet but perfect. Call (416) 690-3196
http://www.tinlee.com/CATV-Signal-Injector.php?active=1

434B TV Bandpass Filter Channel 3 - $28, plus a combiner style splitter $7.
http://www.iceradioproducts.com/filtersrf.html


RJ, just so you know.....TVGOS is back on in Houston. .
HP - Comcast Hou. isn't working on 3410a old ver. 7.1.

RJ

I'm selling one of these on eBay if anyone is interested. It's item number 120487292674. It always worked fine for me but I use a HTPC now so I don't need it anymore.

A no reserve low opening bid listing; we'll see what the current market is for 3410A!

A no reserve low opening bid listing; we'll see what the current market is for 3410A!

Holding @ $51.00, 2 days left.

A refurbisher has 1 on ebay, buy it now for $750.00, HA.

I still have a brand new one sitting unused in the closet. Otherwise I would have been all over yours knowing it was owned by an informed owner.

Holding @ $51.00, 2 days left.

Ended Nov 07, 2009 06:52:48 PST for US $192.50 with $16.99 shipping and a 7 day return privilege.

Now there's another, currently just under $100 with $15.79 shipping and 7 day return privilege.

hm...I wonder how many people know that with this unit plus a refurb JVC40K at about 150 bucks you will have one of the few combos that provide for broadcast-quality high-def recording AND archiving/playback!

Try this before diving into it...

Unplug it from power... Wait 2-3 hours... I've seen two units exactly like this....
Power off for a few hours fixes it....

Nothing like searching through this and other threads when the unexpected occurs!

We had a short outage last Sunday. Everything recovered just fine except 3410A which remained completely dead even after attempting to reboot.

I searched for 'fuse'; found that info but also found Jan's post above; unplugged 3410A overnight and this morning it came on just fine! :)

Ever since not letting it mess with TVGOS, 3410A has been relatively well behaved; I can now reset the clock manually with no problems.

The only ongoing glitch is losing some digital sub-channels exactly on on the hour or half hour during certain times of the day. :eek:

Hey, not bad at all!

What has it been now, 3 or 4 months since I pulled that cap from the 3410a to disable TVG? Well, here's an update... !!

In these 3-4 months, I have not had to power cycle ANY of the FOUR 3410a's at all.

They have been working, and recording (via VCR+ by setting channel, start and stop times) Flawlessly!!!

I got a flyer via email from the new owners of TVG, (I'm assumeing because I've been sending them 3410a updates indicating no problems, and rubbing it in their noses as well :D! ), and you know what? I glanced at the email, then indicated the sender was to be blocked --- SPAM...

Me, Bitter? No... Just discusted that I bought into the Kool Aid that they were feeding us for the past 3 years.... and found out they were wrong....

I don't know how many times I've been in conversations with two other companies, only to discover that I'm involved with a conversation full of finger pointing -- at the company who itsn't there at the time....

TVG: Not us! -- Contact LG!
LG: We no longer make that product, but when we did, it worked with TVG -- Contact TVG!

I can be proud of my 3410a accomplishments:
Component changes on Power supply board......
Cap Removal to disable TVG and make the product useful again!!

Jan

What has it been now, 3 or 4 months since I pulled that cap from the 3410a to disable TVG? Well, here's an update... !!

In these 3-4 months, I have not had to power cycle ANY of the FOUR 3410a's at all.

They have been working, and recording (via VCR+ by setting channel, start and stop times) Flawlessly!!!

I got a flyer via email from the new owners of TVG, (I'm assumeing because I've been sending them 3410a updates indicating no problems, and rubbing it in their noses as well :D! ), and you know what? I glanced at the email, then indicated the sender was to be blocked --- SPAM...

Me, Bitter? No... Just discusted that I bought into the Kool Aid that they were feeding us for the past 3 years.... and found out they were wrong....

I don't know how many times I've been in conversations with two other companies, only to discover that I'm involved with a conversation full of finger pointing -- at the company who itsn't there at the time....

TVG: Not us! -- Contact LG!
LG: We no longer make that product, but when we did, it worked with TVG -- Contact TVG!

I can be proud of my 3410a accomplishments:
Component changes on Power supply board......
Cap Removal to disable TVG and make the product useful again!!

Jan

You gave me back the use of my LG, so you have my thanks.

Joe

Happy Thanksgiving -- All!!

Jan, my friend a happy Thanksgiving to you and yours. Blessed be the day some smart engineer conceived our precious HD DVR's and blessd is the day you came to join us in a quest to keep them working. Thank you Jan.

What has it been now, 3 or 4 months since I pulled that cap from the 3410a to disable TVG? Well, here's an update... !!



Jan J,

I think you understand this beast better than anybody. I'm hoping you can offer some insight. (I have NOT removed the cap to disable TVGOS)

Since analog shutoff (actually a little before), I've had no TVGOS, but it has worked perfectly in VCR+ mode, and no freezeup since before analog shutoff. I have not experimented with any external boxes to "fake" the TVGOS, I'm fine without it.

My only complaint: My clock is being set by somebody, it even corrected when we went off DST. Unfortunately, their clock isn't very accurate, and drifts slowly.

I don't know whether my clock info comes from a remaining analog LP, or is somehow decoded from a digital channel. Since I am getting clock from somebody, I can't reset it manually. (I can unplug, reset manually before it synchs up, but it resets automatically to whatever is sent).

My question: In the diagnostic screens, is there a way to identify the source channel for time code (I know how to read the TVGOS host, but that isn't it, there isn't a TVGOS host anymore, that's off the air). I would like to contact the station and harass them about clock accuracy.

At the moment, I just note the clock error and factor it into a time pad on my recording times, but it is a PITA, especially when recording adjacent times on different channels.

a month or so ago, I re-synced all clocks in the 4 DVR's... (synced one, then matched the others to it by hitting 'enter' on the clock setting in sync with time change on 'master'), and all 4 now are within a second or so of each other.

Depending on the networks, I can tell you that 'local' stations may offset their times to compensate for satelite distribution of programming, so their local clocks can be a few seconds late, to take into account the propagation delay of network programming through satelites and the resulting framesyncs... Add that to programming that starts before or after the hour..... and it can become confusing....

Short of a TIVO how come there is no commercial replacement for a digital LG 3410? There is nothing, over the air or just cable that can record like the LG, how come? You would think that a low cost PVR would be welcome, I know I would get one, with or with out a tuner. But I sure would like to get one with a digital tuner for my 50" Pio plasma monitor. Any ideas or suggestions?
Mike

For over-the-air, you might want to check out the dual-tunered, Echostar DTVPal DVR, currently available from sears and kmart.com. It uses TVGOS, just like the LG does (or did).

There's a big thread in this sub-forum on it.

Depending on the networks, I can tell you that 'local' stations may offset their times to compensate for satelite distribution of programming, so their local clocks can be a few seconds late, to take into account the propagation delay of network programming through satelites and the resulting framesyncs... Add that to programming that starts before or after the hour..... and it can become confusing....

I can only read to the minute, but my DVR's clock is off by 3 minutes vs an atomic clock. In addition, I have to pad for funny start and end times. But I assume it is only one channel sending it in a way 3410A can decode; I just don't know who is sending it.

I can only read to the minute, but my DVR's clock is off by 3 minutes vs an atomic clock. In addition, I have to pad for funny start and end times. But I assume it is only one channel sending it in a way 3410A can decode; I just don't know who is sending it.

I can think of two ways to respond to your problem.

First, you are not getting a clock from anybody and the LST is drifting on its own. Mine does, so every month I kill all the items in the schedule and reset the clock. Your clock drift sounds much worse than mine. If I had a schematic I would look for a trimmer cap like they used to have on older PC motherboards.

Second, should there be a Sony DHG user in your zip code (that forum thread is quite active), they can tell you if someone is sending out a clock signal (XDS or TVGOS). My "clock set" channel is from my cable supplier via C-SPAN and is always five seconds slow. But it only works on the Sony since I cut the cap. Hope this helps.

I don't recall if they list the "clock set channel" in the diagnostics screens in the v7 guides (I don't have either of my v7 units hooked up right now to check) - but in the Sony's v8, it's definitely listed there as "Clock Set Chan" at the bottom of a page called "Clocks". Just look closely through all the pages. It might be abbreviated in some way that isn't so evident.

I can only read to the minute, but my DVR's clock is off by 3 minutes vs an atomic clock. In addition, I have to pad for funny start and end times. But I assume it is only one channel sending it in a way 3410A can decode; I just don't know who is sending it.

To see who is still sending TVGOS in your area, check the following site:

http://www.rabbitears.info

From your posting, you are OTA and the clock from a V8 TVGOS may cause the LST to sync up to it. I can't state that as a fact. That doesn't explain "drifting" though. I would expect the error to be fixed or at least computable in a "seconds per week" sort of way. My LST does move ahead 30 seconds per month.

Short of a TIVO how come there is no commercial replacement for a digital LG 3410? There is nothing, over the air or just cable that can record like the LG, how come? You would think that a low cost PVR would be welcome, I know I would get one, with or with out a tuner. But I sure would like to get one with a digital tuner for my 50" Pio plasma monitor. Any ideas or suggestions?
Mike

Interesting question that I often ask myself as I continue to nurse my 3410 (which my teenage son now refers to as "ghetto"). When VCRs first came out, every manufacturer had an offering. Today, folks that don't have cable or a dish have only two options - TIVO and the Echostar DTVPal DVR. My best guess as to why this is the sorry state OTAers find themselves in is due to two realities. First, we are a very small market - less than 10% of TV households. Second, our patent system has liberally interpreted what constitutes a novel idea, so much so that TIVO has been able to obtain royalties through threatened or actual litigation from anyone who manufactures a DVR. IMO, low demand and certain product litigation have made development of OTA DVRs economically infeasible.

Veets,
Ya know I was getting the same impression about TIVO but do not read anything substantial about this legal angle they seem to enjoy. I've decided to keep the 3410 and also nurse it till it dies. However, I have only been using it for cable digital QAM and HD capabilities and as a recorder for the wife. Now that we are losing the TVGOS I'm even looking for a non cable replacement which are hard to find,esp if you do not want to pay fees. Therefore, I refuse to buy a TIVO and have ordered a MOXI. We'll see how long that one lasts.
Mike

Now that we are losing the TVGOS I'm even looking for a non cable replacement which are hard to find,esp if you do not want to pay fees. Therefore, I refuse to buy a TIVO and have ordered a MOXI. We'll see how long that one lasts.TiVo allows you to buy a lifetime subscription to eliminate all future fees. Moxi includes a lifetime subscription in the purchase price. The final price of both DVRs without fees was comparable two months ago, but Moxi recently cut their price by $300. That price cut makes Moxi the clear value leader. See the chart (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17063966#post17063966).

If you have multiple TVs, be sure to check out the bundle with the Moxi Mate extender.

Second, our patent system has liberally interpreted what constitutes a novel idea, so much so that TIVO has been able to obtain royalties through threatened or actual litigation from anyone who manufactures a DVR.TiVo does not yet receive any royalties on third-party DVR software. They've been unable to convince anyone to pay patent licensing fees. Thus far, they've only been able to convince (or pressure) others to offer their software as an option.

Cox, Comcast, and DirecTV all agreed to offer the TiVo software as an option on their DVR and pay anywhere from $0.40 to $2.00/mo (rumored) for each customer that opted for it. But none of the providers pay TiVo to use the patents in their own software. In return for agreeing to offer and promote TiVo software, these providers all received non-litigation clauses as part of the contract.

The Dish Network suit from 2004 is TiVo's first real attempt to a defend its patents. They put all other litigation on hold until very recently, when they sued AT&T and Verizon in August. Both TiVo and Dish Network are waiting on a decision from the U.S. Court of Appeals, which should provide some finality to the case. If TiVo prevails as it hopes, they'll receive $200+ million in damages ($1.25/mo of Dish Network's $5.99/mo DVR fee) for infringement since 9/2006 and they'll have a precedent to use against others.

One thing you didn't mention was EPG and guide data licensing costs, and those represent another barrier to low-cost recorders. In the past, Rovi (Gemstar) charged $10 per STB to license its EPG patent. Tribune currently charges more per-box for its guide data than TiVo was awarded in per-DVR damages from patent infringement. TiVo was awarded $1.25/mo per DVR for infringement and Tribune charges a wholesale price of roughly $1.50/mo per box for guide data.

First, we are a very small market - less than 10% of TV households.This is the primary reason we don't see more OTA DVRs. Of the 10% interested in OTA, only a small percentage are willing to pay what it would take to make a DVR profitable for most CE vendors. A company like Sony or LG can't enter the market and recoup its development costs selling 10,000 units at $200 MSRP (~$120 net).

To see who is still sending TVGOS in your area, check the following site:

http://www.rabbitears.info

From your posting, you are OTA and the clock from a V8 TVGOS may cause the LST to sync up to it. I can't state that as a fact. That doesn't explain "drifting" though. I would expect the error to be fixed or at least computable in a "seconds per week" sort of way. My LST does move ahead 30 seconds per month.

Thanks for the tip. That might or might not be the explanation. WWJ (psip 62.1/rf 44) transmits digital TVGOS. I suppose it could be that; however, their time, transmitted also in psip, and visible in the "info" screen on two of my TVs, is "deadnuts." The minutes change when the seconds roll on my atomic clock. Is it possible that WWJ uses different clocks for the TVGOS transmission and in PSIP? Can the 3410 really decode anything from digital TVGOS?

You are right, I am OTA. I understand the clock function well enough to understand my 3410 is synching to somebody, the question is who:
*It automatically changed correctly from DST to standard time in Nov. If that were built in, it would have been in to the old rules (Oct), not the current rules, based on the age of the design.
*Manual setting is greyed out. I can manually set by unplugging and manually setting before it can synch up. However, it quickly synchs up to the false time.

It is relatively slow creep. It was out by 2 minutes for a few months, now it is 3 minutes approaching 4. I can do the mental arithmetic. My biggest worry is they will notice and fix their clock, while I am counting on the slowly creeping error in programmed record times.

Because of the frequency of lockups while analog TVGOS was still transmitted, I never stored scheduled shows, I manually programmed it as late in the day as possible, and hoped it would be reliable through prime time. I would try to watch programs the next day and clear them out so I had little at risk. If it actually worked, it made a beautiful recording, but I never trusted it, and used it in a way that reflected my mistrust. It is MUCH more reliable without TVGOS.

Final question, if I perform Jan J's TVGOS capacitor surgery, does that kill the auto clock function?

Thanks for the tip. That might or might not be the explanation. WWJ (psip 62.1/rf 44) transmits digital TVGOS. I suppose it could be that; however, their time, transmitted also in psip, and visible in the "info" screen on two of my TVs, is "deadnuts." The minutes change when the seconds roll on my atomic clock. Is it possible that WWJ uses different clocks for the TVGOS transmission and in PSIP? Can the 3410 really decode anything from digital TVGOS?

Final question, if I perform Jan J's TVGOS capacitor surgery, does that kill the auto clock function?

The LST and the Sony DHG don't use the PSIP for anything. Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Judging from the PSIP information displayed by my TV, few stations send the data. Some send ratings, some show time, some time, but most cable channels are empty. A few do send ratings.

Cut the cap and you lose all TVGOS input. No lineup, no listings. You still need to have an empty recording list to change the clock. But since I was unplugging the unit every day to make it work (I have a V8 feed), at least now I have a nice "vcr". As for time accuracy, I don't trust the recording time displayed via the "menu". It always shows record time as 53 minutes for a 61 minute recording. Such is life. Since blocking TVGOS I haven't missed a scheduled recording.

Bottom line is that PSIP data and TVGOS data don't know each other exist. I wish they did.

BFDTV,
I found your comparable chart very useful and your explanation on TIVO royalties is interesting. What exactly does TIVO claim ownership to, the DVR part of a box or just software? Aside from OTA DVR's how come there are not more regular cable type boxes that could be purchased and hooked to cable? Maybe I'm naive but I would think the same manufacturers that make boxes for the cable companies to rent could make them for the general public? How would this be different than my LG 3410 box, yes I know it started out as an OTA box but until the switch to pure digital it worked very well on cable also and I did not pay a dime to anyone for this PVR. Surely their software couldn't have been tied to TIVO? Thanks for the enlightenment.
Mike

Just found this http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2009/12/fcc-admits-cablecard-a-failure-vows-to-try-something-else.ars Perhaps the FCC will open up the cable industry!

I agree with Joe... Doubt that PSIP data info is used in the 3410a.
I never precisely determined where it got clock data when TVG DID work!

I can tell you this, though... The station I work at did used to provide TVG for the 3410a, and there was a telephone connection to the Norpak box... and that is how it got it's data.

I assume that clock data was in that info, too... With C493 removed, this probably means the clock is based on an oscillator in the 3410a, with no external lock...

I was involved with troubleshooting this system a few times, but let me tell you, I, as a Broadcast Engineer, was just as much in the dark troubleshooting the TVG system as we are -- as TVG Users!!!!

The senerio went like this:

I'd get a phonecall from Nick or Jason at work... "Something is wrong with your Norpak Inserter for TVG! Please do the following: Connect an analog decoded signal that is downstream of the Norpak Digital Inserter, into the Diagnostic Port (Video) Input... and call me back after you do..."

I'd do that, and call back, and he'd modem in, and tell me this: "You Pass" or "You Fail"

If I Failed, first thing he'd have me do is power cycle the Norpak box... If that didn't fix it, he'd say we are not inserting TVG Data (on Line 15 at that time) back into the program Stream correctly... I'd troubleshoot that, then call him back, and I'd receive the following: "You Pass" or "You Fail"....

No other diagnostics, data measuring or decoding tests, of ANY KIND, was provided...

Sound Familiar???

TiVo does not yet receive any royalties on third-party DVR software...Thus far, they've only been able to convince (or pressure) others to offer their software as an option.

A.K.A. extortion ;)

Very informative post BTW.

I received an email from someone in Chicagoland who has 2 of the LG Plasma's with Built in V8 DVR's....

He's now having TVG lockup problems with his V8 DVR....

I suggested he contact Rovi... Forgot the email address... Can anyone post it?

(How much you bet that they say it's the unit's fault, and two units fail identically starting at the same point? Sound Familiar?)

I received an email from someone in Chicagoland who has 2 of the LG Plasma's with Built in V8 DVR's....

He's now having TVG lockup problems with his V8 DVR....

I suggested he contact Rovi... Forgot the email address... Can anyone post it?

(How much you bet that they say it's the unit's fault, and two units fail identically starting at the same point? Sound Familiar?)

Here it is: Ce_customer_support@rovicorp.com

Mark

I received an email from someone in Chicagoland who has 2 of the LG Plasma's with Built in V8 DVR's....

I wasn't aware LG sold HDTV's with a built in DVR. I knew some of them had the free guide service, but not recording features like the 3410a.

Betcha' he means V8 TVGOS.

Yes.. He has LG displays with built in LG DVR's with V8 TVGOS

A rare beast indeed! :eek:
http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/05/lgs-five-new-1080p-time-machine-plasma-and-lcd-tvs-with-built-i/

Happy Holidays!!!!

Happy Holidays!!!!

Happy Holidays to you too Jan and the rest of the group.

JJ, RF, et al,

A great and safe Holiday Season - and thanks for
all the suggestions and assistance.

Can anyone tell me a fair price on a LST 3410 these days?

Can anyone tell me a fair price on a LST 3410 these days?
If you do not own one already, there is no real reason to buy one. I might give someone $25.00 but I doubt I would do that. These are getting pretty long in the tooth.

I'd think if you went through the effort to disable the TVG (Remove one cap), then it acts like a VCR..... That can record off Cable or HDTV...

Long in the tooth..... Sure!!

But it still works as a VCR.... and can record HD beautifully!!!

Actually..... Since DE-TVG-ing the one's we have.... They've been the most dependable that they've ever have been ----- Even when TVG worked correctly!!!

I still have one I'm stripping for parts.... (Motherboard died)...

Jan, I still believe my 3 3410A's walk on water. There PQ is unmatched. I record 3 hours a day on each one. My reply to the guy who wanted to buy one reflects the fact that there are better ways to record HD programming like my 2 Motorola 3416's with 2 tuners. Sure, I can't record OTA with them but it sure is convenient and reliable. My HD130 card also records well. I sunk over $2.5K into my 3410's but now I would not. Not today.

Jan J,
Which cap, please verify. In post #6622 I see reference to C493, yet in post 6623 I see reference to C394?
FYI for MrHIFI,
I was the one asking about the price data, I have one and was thinking of selleing, have not yet decided to sell it or hold it for a recorder. Repalced it with a Moxi for the wife.
Thanks all, you make this a great forum for info.
Mike

You'll have to get a hold of Joe, and ask him to edit his reply to my post (6622).
I cannot edit someone elses posts!
Post 6622 was edited by me when it was pointed out as incorrect a while back.
Post 6622 is correct... That cap breaks the connection between tuner and TVG decode circuitry, efffectively disabling TVG, and the lockups the incorrect data being supplied by TVG that were causing the TVG lockups... C493 is the correct cap....

Jan J,
Which cap, please verify. In post #6622 I see reference to C493, yet in post 6623 I see reference to C394?
FYI for MrHIFI,
I was the one asking about the price data, I have one and was thinking of selleing, have not yet decided to sell it or hold it for a recorder. Repalced it with a Moxi for the wife.
Thanks all, you make this a great forum for info.
Mike

You'll have to get a hold of Joe, and ask him to edit his reply to my post (6622).
I cannot edit someone elses posts!
Post 6622 was edited by me when it was pointed out as incorrect a while back.
Post 6622 is correct... That cap breaks the connection between tuner and TVG decode circuitry, efffectively disabling TVG, and the lockups the incorrect data being supplied by TVG that were causing the TVG lockups... C493 is the correct cap....

Update done. Have a great new year.

For about this past year my TVGOS has been working flawlessly. Before that I would have the occasional lock ups, AVI invalid problems etc. My cable company is Comcast for the Tacoma, WA area. Whatever they are doing now I hope they keep doing it. Chasie

First, HNY to All.

Second, if you have been reading the Washington, DC / Baltimore, MD HDTV Forum, you know that there has been a problem here with Rovi's TVGOS. Some of the Version 8 (mostly Sony) users lost their guides. A contest ensued trying to determine if WUSA (9) was at fault or Rovi themselves. Turns out that WUSA indicates they have NO control over anything TVGOS related. The problem seems to be fixed now, and the reason I bring this up is that my 3410a is now functioning as it should, with one more "day" to fill in til my guide is complete, a new and novel condition! BTW, I am picking up the TVGOS on channel 29 (the analog version of 9.1) from COMCAST.

Fred... Please update this topic in the next couple weeks....

If it is fixed.... I'd be willing to re-install C493 and try again..... Off CBS 2-0 off Comcast here in Chicagoland.....

Please.... Update us on the status of TVGOS over the next couple weeks!!!!

Hi Jan and HNY. Will certainly update. Got a question, though. You know the TVGOS data better than most. What would cause some, but not all, stations to update on a given day, with the other channels showing "No Listing"? Totally random, e.g., Channel 7 might be complete for day 1 and 3, but missing on day 2. Another thing I sometimes see, is a single program in the middle of a page, say 8-9PM, but the 7-8 and 10-11 are "no Listing." Almost seems like a noisy or bad signal. Most days are perfect. Just a couple of anomalies.

Way back when... I asked the tech something along that comment....
The answer I got then, (What-4-5 Years ago?) was that the 'main' download are started at 2AM--6AM and another at 10Am and then 2PM ... Guy said something about 'interleaved' data... which was supposed to update gaps in received data... in case something was missed in one download....
I didn't understand it clearly then, but that seemed to make sense a couple years ago during the TR40 fiasco, when I'd get data in the Guide one day, and not the next...

Of course who knows what they are doing now... or even two years ago, when we were still trying to stuff incorrect data into our TVG card.....

Thanks, Jan. That makes limited sense. They have to have some way to repeat the data, cause they don't know when you are on/off.

As a report: I have some data for all 8 days, 5 of them are completely filled in.

Albertso... How's it going? Any Lockups? Should I be looking for a 10uf/16V cap?

As of 5 minutes ago, I have 5 full days listings and 3 "no listings" days. Wouldn't go shopping yet!

How many days since power cycle?

Wonders never cease to amaze. Something is up in Rovi land. Today I have listings! But only days 1 and 6 are filled in. The rest are either partial's or complete 'no listings'. I can't even remember the last time I saw listings. Mine rarely gets turned on these days.

I have kept my 3410a hooked up in the bedroom for the occasional need to record late night tv when I'm too tired to watch. VCRPlus+ has met my needs for near and real time scheduling. Today I saw a program I wanted to record this evening. Imagine my surprise when the guide came up with listings. It is a hollow excitement in that I still don't trust it. After my initial surprise I went into the diagnostics menu to find my host channel. Then I went into Setup to confirm my settings and it locked up. Power cycled and brought it back up and my day 1 and 6 listings still showed.

What does it mean? Does anyone still care? Does this mean Life is Good again? How ironic would it be should they fix our LG's now?

Jan, 3 days, but the plug-pull sems to be harmless. If I have days 1,5 and 8 (example) before the pull, I still have them after. What seems to happen, is that the pull restarts the download, but does not destroy what is there. I only pull for 5 seconds or so.

RF, you might want to look at the Washington, DC/Baltimore HDTV forum, page 375 and following. Indication is that Rovi has tweaked something, though they will not admit it. Many bitches to them from the Ver 7 & 8 users here in the DC area. And, yes, I still care... Am always hopeful.

albertso: By Pull the Plug, I don't mean that it will lose data.... I'm saying that TVG Locks up, Necessitating you pull the plug in order to get it to work again....
What I noticed before is the box will work for about 3 days, then TVG Locks up... and Only a power cycle (Pull the Plug) will get it to work again...

Do me a favor... DON'T Pull the Plug... Let it run until it locks up TVG, then post how long it works before you have to pull the plug...


Hmmmm..... Two people beginning to get data..... Maybe I will put a cap back in tomorrow PM.....

"Experimental" DVR (AKA: DVR#4) Now has 10uf/50V electolytic cap (only needed 16v cap, but 50v cap was handy) re-installed in C493.
Sunday 1/10/10 6:30PM. Set up as Cable Yes, Cablebox No. Checkced CBS 2-0 off Comcast Cable onto oscilliscope.... There IS TVG in VBI on CBS 2-0.
No Echostar in this path.... Strictly Comcast Cable.

After verifying CBS 2-0 was included in TVG list, Powered down...
Prior to adding cap at C493, TVG light was always ON with unit turned off.
On power off, No TVG light for 10 min, then it turned on.....

More later, I'm certain!!!

EDIT Mon AM at 6:20A... TVG light still lit... Checked, nothing yet... On power off, TVG light went out... So it is working different than when C493 was removed (TVG Light then was Always ON on power off)

Drum roll . . . . . . . . . . . . .

Monday PM ~24 hours after cap re-install.
12 hours after first exam...
No TVG light on my return home.

On power up.... Green Scheduled light (when I have nothing scheduled) Invalid AV1, AV2 recording message... TVG is Locked up...
Pulled Power Plug, waited 10 seconds, plugged back in.... On power up again, No Listings. Scrolled forward to end of TVG week... No Listings any day.... Did not check TVG Diagnostics...
On Power off, TVG Data light went back on....
Time will tell, but ....... (I guess that settles any question if I have the cap installed... :)! )

Today I can report I have a nearly full grid. Day 4 & 6 have partial and the rest are full. I'm betting the lockups come back too. Like Jan said, time will tell.

I did an unplug/replug a 2 days ago and got the Guide light after having left the Reserved light on for about a week. Before I recorded tonight's House episode the Invalid channel error came up. Strangely, my Guide light is on , Reserved light is off and I haven't done anything to my 3410 :confused:. I'm seriously considering cutting the cap to eliminate TVGOS.

Guys, I am running 3 of these with various firmwares. Do not get TVGOS data but I get OTA and Annapolis Comcast. Use them like VCR's. Not one lockup since TVGOS stopped. Love them more without TVGOS than with.

Last night I was timeshifting Heroes and Leno. At a commercial break in Heroes I tried to jump ahead using the DRAG + key. The time bar came up and the slider moved but the commercial continued. So of course I pressed the button a couple more times. The slider moved in response, but no change in video. So I figured it had locked up and resigned myself to watching w/o FF. During the next segment of the show it suddenly jumped to the closing credits, then Leno started. Partway through the monologue it jumped again into Headlines. So it wasn't really locked up, just the super-slow mode I've seen in other operations. Now I wonder if all our "lockups" aren't really just very slow operation, and what could cause the CPU to slow down like that (apparently, bad TVGOS data can, but how?).

I shut it off and did an unplug/replug. After several weeks of no guide data at all, today I have full guides for today (Tuesday), tomorrow, Thursday and next Tuesday, with sparse listings the other days (mainly kids' shows on PBS and sports). So there may be hope yet.

Fortunately I was recording Heroes elsewhere and Leno isn't worth recording.

Tuesday 5:45PM
Approx 24 hours since last un-plug...
~24 hours since last exam...

Power up... OK.... Go into TVG.... OK... No Listings.... Started to Scan listings..
Green Reserved light came on... "Invalid A/V...." TVG Lockup.....

Pulled Plug.... On power up, went into TVG Diagnostics... (753159852)
No Host.... VBI is 2-0

Forced a new TVG Channel (653214741) After Screen cleared.... Then turned off power... TVG light came on...

Strike two

OK Folks, Not looking too good:

Status (G = full; P = partial; N = no listing)

DAY 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

MON G N N P G N N N

TUE N N N G N N N N

See the popular reseller site, item 200427863587.

Wednesday 5:00 PM
Approx 24 hours since last un-plug...
~24 hours since last exam...

Power up... OK.... Go into TVG.... OK... No Listings.... Started to Scan listings..
TVG Locked up....
Pulled Plug.... Waited 10 seconds... Plugged back in....

I'm thinking I should get a switch to be able to insert or remove one leg of from the circuitry, as: As much as I do want and hope for a "revalation" at the Rovi folks, but in order to use the unit, It appears that this cap needs to be disconnected for stable operation right now....

At least with a switch I could add it, or delete it at will.....

Let me think about it for a couple days.... I'll leave it alone for a couple days to see if it does anything better.....

Sigh..........

Continuing status: As of Wed at 1830

Status (G = full; P = partial; N = no listing)

DAY 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

MON G N N P G N N N

TUE N N N G N N N N

WED N P G N N N N N


Will continue this for 4 more days, then pull. Have
had no lockups or Invalid Errors.

Continuing status: As of THU at 1815

Status (G = full; P = partial; N = no listing)

DAY 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

MON G N N P G N N N

TUE N N N G N N N N

WED N P G N N N N N

THU N G N N N N N N

Reset necessary for THU stats. Packets coming in fine on VBI TEST.

Continuing status: As of FRI at 2000

Status (G = full; P = partial; N = no listing)

DAY 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

MON G N N P G N N N

TUE N N N G N N N N

WED N P G N N N N N

THU N G N N N N N N (Reset)

FRI G G G N N N P G

Friday January 15th. No listings. No host.
Opened it up and added switch in series with cap...
Went Into G*Test.. 971397135
Not getting any A or B packets...

So, fired up the oscilliscope and examined VBI on CBS 2-0...
I'm seeing 4 lines of VBI, with the Clock and data separator.... but NO DATA is being sent on any of the VBI lines...

I'll wait till I see data on scope, then try G*Test again....

It could be the long wires to the switch is picking up enough digital noise so as to prevent the decode circuitry from decoding correctly.... But I'll never know this until I see TVG Data in the VBI of 2-0 (CBS)....

I haven't looked at the TR40 output (in months) but since it gets data off HDTV stream, and I know CBS feeds Comcast a direct SD feed, no need to do so...

Anyone else able to scope the VBI of their CBS cable feed, looking for Data being sent in the 4 VBI lines, (Data Other than the clock and data separators) ???

EUREKA!!!!

Saturday, Jan 16: Awoke this morning, turned on scope, and saw data on one or more of the VBI lines on 2-0...
Turned on 3410a, and went into TVG............ AND WAS GREETED WITH A CHANNEL LIST!! (I guess that settles if the soldering and switch lead length is good or not!)
Selected the cable list that matches our channels... It took.
In past, scrolling through TVG channels could lock up TVG -- Gingerly moved through list.
It worked. I have 3 days of listings:
Today Good Listings!
Sunday Good Listings!
Monday NL (No Listings)
Tuesday NL
Wednesday NL
Thursday NL
Friday NL
Saturday Good Listings!

Next... went into channel list to see how many I have to turn off (Usually every channel is enabled, and I have to disable the ones I don't get as analog SD channels... This, too is an area where TVG board is VERY prone to lock-up)....
With exception of 2-3 channels, The proper analog channels are enabled, and the ones you need a box for are ALREADY DISABLED!!! (3410a setup for Cable Yes, Cablebox No.)
Maybe this is the change they made!!! (To prevent over-writing of the TVG Memory) (P.S. I told them about this 2 years ago, when they agreed that the lockups were probably data overwriting/overloading the TVG memory)

No OTA channels yet, but that is normal for the first day after cable channel list..... and this is only the first day...

Went into G*Test and I'm getting TONS of B packets, no A packets....

At that point, I figured I'd tempted fate enough for one day.... and turned it off... No lockup, and I got more data and browsed further in TVG than I had in a long time!!

TIME WILL TELL!!!

Great news Jan, glad it is starting to pay off.

Here is my continuing status report:

As of SAT at 1750:

Status (G = full; P = partial; N = no listing)

DAY 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

MON G N N P G N N N

TUE N N N G N N N N

WED N P G N N N N N

THU N G N N N N N N (Reset)

FRI G G G N N N P G

SAT G G P P P P G N

Interesting to note that the partial data is for the SAME Channesl on all 4 days. Wonder what that means??

Saturday 8:30PM 1/16. Today I scheduled a recording... With TVG.. It did it...
and logged name and Time from TVG. Good.
After checking the record, I checked to see if OTA channels downloaded yet....
TVG Locked up while I was scrolling through TVG Channels in TVG/Setup/Channel edit.
Green Reserved light came on, "Invalid A/V Recording", and TVG Lockup...

Had to pull plug....

It's powered down now, getting TVG data...

Not yet ready to say anything about TVG being 'better' or not.........

Sunday 11:45AM
Checked TVG.... OTA channels showed up, with CORRECT channel numbers... GOOD!

Checked Listings... Next two days, and last day of week..
Yes, am getting some days of partial listings... A few channels, not all...

No TVG lockup....

Gut Feeling...: YES, it's better than 6 months ago... but still a work in progress...

Wouldn't it be nice if TVG/Macrovision/Rovi would have worked with us, instead of taking the "High" road ("We're better than YOU are!").....

More later....

Anyone else able to scope the VBI of their CBS cable feed, looking for Data being sent in the 4 VBI lines, (Data Other than the clock and data separators) ???I can. WRGB in Albany NY sends an analog feed with TVGOS to cable, as does WMHT (PBS). On WRGB at the moment lines 14 odd and 13, 14 and 15 even have active data; the rest are idle. WMHT is the same except on the opposite fields. Recently I got some guides filled in but as others have found it doesn't last, at least not without a regular unplug/replug.

I also played with demodulating the signal with a VCR, feeding it through a proc amp that lets me pass or block individual lines and finally through another VCR to remodulate onto ch. 3 for the LG. I hoped that limiting the lines to just the one(s) needed would eliminate possible data overflow but my tests were inconclusive. However I found that I needed two lines to get both A and B packets. A packets were on Line 13 Field 2 and B packets were on Line 15 Field 2.

Hi All,

Jan,

I've given up the day-by-day analysis. The way things are going, 3 days from now I would have nothing. What I'm going to do is plug reset every night about 1800 and see what happens. I reset tonight and the Guide light came right on. It had not been on for a day or two as my guide disappeared.

I can't do line-by-line analysis like you and ebo, but my 3410 likes the packets coming in, both A and B, on G*Test. The ratio of A to B is about 1/10 with B's coming in at 2-3 per second.

Rovi certainly has done nothing for us, but I do think the stink raised by the Sony Version 8 folk and WUSATV's efforts here in the DC area did some good in stirring them up. Perhaps additional complaints will cause some additional positive action.

Will keep you posted.

1/18/2010 TVG locked up while I was scanning the listings.. Was going to program a couple recordings.... Had to Power cycle...
Listings for today and tomorrow, and last two days in the list... Empty with a couple of listings in the middle of the list....

Wish I could be more positive......

Wednesday January 20, 5:30AM
TVG locked up while I was scanning the listings..
Pulled plug for a couple seconds.

Seriously considering disabling TVG again

TVG locked up again tonight.... Pulled Plug... Threw switch to disconnect C493 from circuit... Plugged power in again....

Hey, if they ever fix the code they transmit, I'll switch the cap back in!! :(!

Jan et al,

Recently, Comcast Annapolis went all digital, almost. They provided me with two D/A converter boxes for TV's without QAM tuners. If I were to install a box at the antenna input of the 3410A, might I receive the TVGOS data? I would keep the direct cable input connection into the 3410 cable input. I would sacrifice the OTA HD signal which I really like. Opinion?

MrHifi:
It's unlikely that Comcast's converter will output analog TVGOS even when tuned to a digital channel that carries the signal, but if it does it wouldn't work to feed its output into the antenna input while still using the cable input for anything. The 3410A would never look at the antenna input for TVGOS. If the cable box has an A/V output, a better way would be to connect it to the 3410A's A/V IN 1 input, set the 3410A to Cable Yes, Box Yes and control the box with the G-Link cable. Also feed the cable and antenna directly to their RF inputs. Then you could record digital from antenna and unencrypted cable as well as whatever the box decodes as NTSC composite video, and the 3410A could read TVGOS from the box if there is any.

Thank you ebo for your suggestion. The G-link cable is the remote sensor correct? Should I set the cable D/A converter to any particular channel or just leave it on? Don't I have to select Video 1 and leave it there in order to get anything through that input? I don't really need this because I get the TVGOS through my 2 341 MOT boxes but I was curious and love to see just how much we can squeeze out of these things. BTW, I record three hours/day on mine almost every day. Have a 300GB drive on one and the original 120 on the other. I just bought a device to transmit HD wirelessly between rooms. Works perfectly using the component output from the 3410. Not so well from my Integra 9.9.

Good luck. As far as I know, no one's ever gotten an older recorder's IR blaster to control anyone of these DTA's, outside of Replay TV units, which have upgradable code databases (possibly old, SD TiVo's too, but I really haven't followed that).

If the cable box has an A/V output, a better way would be to connect it to the 3410A's A/V IN 1 input...I'm not positive if there are any exceptions, but as far as I know all of the DTA's only have RF out.

They also do not have any sort of built-in timer or "reminder" feature, so that solution for unattended channel changing is out, too. These things were built as bare-minimum devices, and they were also shrewd enough to make sure they couldn't be used in any way that would hurt their chances of having to make people rent their proprietary equipment.

Best thing is to use one of their better boxes which have those features (and is also more likely to be able to be controlled by an IR blaster - that way he can at least still split the signal and get the clear-QAM HD, along with the analog TVGOS data, which it appears he can still get).

I'm not positive if there are any exceptions, but as far as I know all of the DTA's only have RF out.

They also do not have any sort of built-in timer or "reminder" feature, so that solution for unattended channel changing is out, too. These things were built as bare-minimum devices, and they were also shrewd enough to make sure they couldn't be used in any way that would hurt their chances of having to make people rent their proprietary equipment.

Best thing is to use one of their better boxes which have those features (and is also more likely to be able to be controlled by an IR blaster - that way he can at least still split the signal and get the clear-QAM HD, along with the analog TVGOS data, which it appears he can still get).

I've decided to keep using them like DVR's without TVGOS.

Jan et al,

Recently, Comcast Annapolis went all digital, almost. They provided me with two D/A converter boxes for TV's without QAM tuners. If I were to install a box at the antenna input of the 3410A, might I receive the TVGOS data? I would keep the direct cable input connection into the 3410 cable input. I would sacrifice the OTA HD signal which I really like. Opinion?

I've got two of those boxes too.... Still in boxes because Comcast haven't switched here, yet...

HAD TVGOS worked (off cable), I would have tried the TR40 (To decode TVG from CBS 2-1 in Chicago...again....) and then put (The TR40) on whatever channel the Comcast box wasn't on..... mix the two, and re-direct all 3410 SD channels to CH4, or CH3 whichever the comcast box was on.. ..... and get on with my life with TVG.

BUT.... TVGOS doesn't work..... So I can switch C493 out, and act like a VCR....

Once they turn Analog off, Then I open up the Comcast boxes and determine what to do next....

I realize this sounds a bit bitter, but based upon the last 2-3 years history of promises -- and "Pratt-Falls" by TVG.... I've grown a bit skeptical that anyone can do anything they promise..... "Show Me".... Has become my de-facto Answer to promises.....

TVG should be very happy that they are not trying to sell me..... Cause I don't think they can deliver!!!

Hi Jan,

I have 3 all together but only use 2. The third is at my Dad and is the anchor for his projector TV system. I will continue to use all three as VCR's. As we have discussed before, since analog TVGOS became unavailable, performance became wonderful. For the first time since I bought the first one, I began making glitch free recordings.

I'm cleaning up "The Shop" in the basement, and have come across an old dead 3410a.
Computer board and case...

No P.S.
No Drive.
No Front panel..

Just Chassis, top, dead motherboard & TVG board (I believe TVG board is good, but that's an Oxymoron now, isn't it? :)! )..

Anybody interested in it? Otherwise I'm gonna pitch it...

Jan,
Is the TVG riser board required for continued use of the VCR Plus+ recording function?

I don't know.... I never tried powering up a unit without a TVG board installed..

But.... Seeing that you cannot see what you have scheduled to record without going into theTVG area.... I'd say No, you probably need it...

In that case maybe you should at least keep it then? Just thinking out loud...

Wondering if anyone else's cable system is changing over to SDV (Switched Digital Video, I think). Apparently Comcast is making that change in the SF Bay Area sometime soon. We had our city rewired with fiber optic lines about 18 months ago. How would this affect our use of our 3410A's? Finally time to abandon it or still keep it?

Wondering if anyone else's cable system is changing over to SDV (Switched Digital Video, I think). Apparently Comcast is making that change in the SF Bay Area sometime soon. We had our city rewired with fiber optic lines about 18 months ago. How would this affect our use of our 3410A's? Finally time to abandon it or still keep it?I haven't heard anything about SDV on Comcast SFBay in the immediate future. The SF Bay area will soon be eliminating their analog channels and encrypting all non-local channels, but that has nothing to do with SDV.

That will leave HD locals via ClearQAM, plus another ~30 or so locals and public interest channels in analog. If you want to tune and record more than that, you'll need the cable company box or a CableCard DVR like the TiVo or Moxi.

Wondering if anyone else's cable system is changing over to SDV (Switched Digital Video, I think). Apparently Comcast is making that change in the SF Bay Area sometime soon. We had our city rewired with fiber optic lines about 18 months ago. How would this affect our use of our 3410A's? Finally time to abandon it or still keep it?

I haven't heard anything about SDV on Comcast SFBay in the immediate future. The SF Bay area will soon be eliminating their analog channels and encrypting all non-local channels, but that has nothing to do with SDV.

That will leave HD locals via ClearQAM, plus another ~30 or so locals and public interest channels in analog. If you want to tune and record more than that, you'll need the cable company box or a CableCard DVR like the TiVo or Moxi.

Interesting timing. Today my cable company sent me a letter. It said that in 6 weeks they will be doing a realignment of the SD & HD channels to make them easier to remember. I'm thinking, easier for WHO? This way local NBC will be 4 and HD NBC will be 504. That's a big help for someone I guess.

Last spring they also said that we are going to all digital and sent me a DTA. RF only - real quality. It has been almost a year and I still get 70 analog channels duplicated with 70 SD channels and duplicated with 6 HD channels and the DTA is still in its box. But...

I've read that even after starting SDV the more popular channels will not be included since why switch something that is always there? Makes sense. They might switch INSP, QVC, Hallmark or other not-top-ten stations. Or so I've heard. I might be wrong.

I need help with my lst-3410a. When I turn the unit on I get a message saying "Invalid channel selected for recording". The reserved light is on.

The unit will not display the TV guide. I also notice that when I change channels it sometimes takes 3+ sec for the sound to start back up once the channel has changed. The sound and delay in channel changing is inconsistant.

Can you give any advice in getting the TV guide to work. I don't need any scheduled recording I think it's just an old one I don't want any longer.


Issues I'm having:
1. no TV guide
2. Invalid channel selected for recording
3. slow channel changing
4. a few of the SD recorded shows on the HDD don't play back properly. (gittery, digitized, image gets stuck.)

Any advice on these issued would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
nmsvard

My model is:
S/W: MP1.15
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 0.0.0
Date 2:51PM Apr06,2004

First try cycling power with a 10 second unplug/replug. If that fails to correct the problem look here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13453320#post13453320). It may require a 'first birthday' factory reset. Perhaps a new format of the HD as well. Come back and tell us if any of these work for you.

Version 0.0.0 on TVG doesn't bode well....

Tell me, does a pull of AC power, followed by a power up often result in you getting stuck at "HELLO" ????

If so, it might be the power supply needs recappping..... Suggest you use revised values I posted a while back....

The 3.9V regulated supply is brought down to 3.3v, and it doesn't have much headroom.
Simplest way around this is to increase the 3.9V filtering....

The TVG board runs off the 3.3V supply number 3. Usually when 3.9V supply gets a bit noisy, you get stuck during bootup at the "HELLO" prompt....
3.3V supply #1 & 2 are adjacent to the 3.9V supply... and power the main CPU. 3.3V Supply #3 is not on power supply, but on Main board, with not much decoupling at all. Therefore if TVG acts up due to PS problems, Main CPU may do so, too.
It was the lack of decoupling on 3.3V supply #3 that convinced me they 3.9V supply decoupling wasn't as good as it could be.... It was simplier to improve the 3.9V supply on the power supply, than to attempt an upgrade caps on the Main board...

I powered down for a day and a half. The guide is back. The software version for the guide now says 7.1.20

I don't get stuck at "HELLO".

My channel changing delay is better than before the unplug/replug but each time I change the station between two cable channels I get the following noise.

"zzip----thumpp"
where "zzip" is a digital sounding noise "----" is a brief pause before the "thump" noise. I get video picture right away the picture sound doesn't start until after the "thump" noise.

When I change channels between OTA and cable and vice versa:
the sound is:
"zzip--click----thumb"
where the click seems to be the sound that the 3410a makes when changing from the different input source.

Do others have these same sounds when changing channels? The sound comes thru the TV speakers.

Thanks,
nmsvard

Glad that worked. You should do a 10 second power disconnect anytime you start noticing longer than usual delays in navigation or audio delays. Those are signs a lockup is imminent.

There is a definite clicking sound when the tuner changes inputs coming from the relay on the motherboard. I don't have extra noises when changing between analog cable channels.

Out of curiosity, has that analog chroma (Y/C) delay issue ever been resolved?

No.. It's a 'feature' of the Ultra Wide Bandwidth needed for HD decoding when 'narrow band' SD goes through it.
In the tuner.. It needs a wider IF for HD than SD.
The Narrow band SD reception 'bounces back and forth' in the wide IF bandwidth, and as it 'bounces' chroma alternately leads and lags luminance.... That's the Y/C Delay we see...
This is how it was described to me by a fellow at the Zenith/LG Labs. They confirmed it about 4-5 years ago.

Understood, but why is this tuner the only one (that I ever heard of) affected by this? The Sony DVR is not.
(Mind you, I'm not a Sony fanboy by any means)

When I finally discovered this (which was a deal breaker), I was surprised no one was even aware of this other than the one or two who posted this years ago. Sure sounds as it makes the analog portion of this useless. Considering most CATV systems have 70 analog channels and also considering many don't want or can't afford spending another $25 to $75 a month just to watch additional digital TV channels (that are overly compressed anyway), a good percentage of the functionality of the recorder can not be used.

Can't answer that. When I contacted the labs on this, they scoffed that it could happen..... Until they tested it themselves.....

Whereas this could become a deal breaker 4-5 years ago.... Now... It's not as important, as Cable Compresses SD more, and removes HF Detail from SD channels..... If not removing SD channels altogether!!!.....

The HD playback image looks pretty transparent to OTA signal...

First ever strangeness since the removal of capacitor to block TVGuide.
One of 4 units left "HDD" Icon on with power off.. Turned it on, waited tilll HDD spun up and showed available space on Icon on front panel, and then turned it off again....
Now HDD Icon is off....

Glitch, I guess....

It sure is quiet with this capacitor removed!!!! SHAME!! TVG/Macrovision/Rovi/______ !!!!

A Jan J - at a boy

Hi Jan Glad to see you still read this and are helping readers,

I haven't removed cap as still have no incoming tvgos signal, so I don't lock up, except when I leave it on for 6+ hours.

As you pulled TVGOS caps, can you reset clock without erasing your wife's timed recordings on your 3-4 3410s?' Just guessing that your dtv box won't reset clock, without the tvgos cap, if it still does pls. post.

I can by pluging in my/our aretec/dtv box into cable in, then start/stop auto scan after it sees channel 3, then in a flash it sets clock, easyier than reschedualing all of e'm, but have to crawl behind and change cable input 2wice My battery back up gave up, it's a pain! I get power outs about every week. Idea?

INFO 3410s don't love 3-500 gig fagmented hard drives, if crammed full of 50-70 clip edits/shows, it stops the schedualed recordings, when power is off, due to excessive hard drive boot/lag time, the 3410s program only gives around a minute, to mount HD, before turning off/giving up. But I love my 500 gig in it.

HELP Can I save e'm, to my other 3410 h-drive before i get 3410 to reformat it???
What operating system will read/transfer them? XP won't.

THANKS, RLJ

LG - LIFES not GOOD----We gave up on TVGOs ver.7, a lot of Sonys/Pannys use ver.8, lucky ducks.

Hi R,

I think the most straightforward way to archive shows and then put them back into the 3410a is using the firewire port, either to dVHS or to a cheap Mac using Virtualdvhs (a dVHS emulator).

The main downside is that file transfers go at streaming speed; but I've successfully moved football games in both directions.

rljohnsen: No, removing the cap (C493) doesn't change the need for removing scheduled recordings before clock set...
Our units are very slowely gaining time.... So I reset them about once every 2 or so months... Sure beats the heck out of pulling power plug each day :)!

As I see it, Pulling the cap is only needed where analog cable is still carrying CBS or another channel with TVG now...
Comcast Cable here still has analog cable (for how long.... ?)..

So in my case, it's pull the cap, or power cycle daily and hope for the best on scheduled recordings...

Hi R, I think the most straightforward way to archive shows and then put them back into the 3410a is using the firewire port, either to dVHS or to a cheap Mac using Virtualdvhs (a dVHS emulator). The main downside is that file transfers go at streaming speed; but I've successfully moved football games in both directions.

Thanks, but to much work + don't have/use other disk recorders.

rljohnsen: No, removing the cap (C493) doesn't change the need for removing scheduled recordings before clock set...
Our units are very slowely gaining time.... So I reset them about once every 2 or so months... Sure beats the heck out of pulling power plug each day :)! As I see it, Pulling the cap is only needed where analog cable is still carrying CBS or another channel with TVG now...
Comcast Cable here still has analog cable (for how long.... ?).. So in my case, it's pull the cap, or power cycle daily and hope for the best on scheduled recordings...

Thanks Jan, My-Hou. Comcast analog cable still dosen't send any/your corrupt tvgos ver.7, Chicago signal. bet it is coming from a Canadaian link up,

I'll just keep reseting clock with Artec.

Hope you don't have 10+ shows to rescheual, but in a month or so they probbaly change time/days anyway.

RJ

Anybody ever determine where the clock resides? I've got a unit that loses clock altogether ( ----- )anytime the plug is pulled. TVG Cap is pulled on this one...
This same unit will Reboot itself occasionally... The Power up Reset cap was changed on this unit maybe 2 years ago....

Regarding my post directly above this.... Took unit to workbench, and nothing appears wrong.... cap in reset circuit fine, as is supplies.... bit of dust on motherboard... blew it out with compressed air.... and testing.... but it now looks fine..... ????

On another issue, units with TVG caps removed, need to be manually set for DST... But you probably know this already!!! :)!

Regarding my post directly above this.... Took unit to workbench, and nothing appears wrong.... cap in reset circuit fine, as is supplies.... bit of dust on motherboard... blew it out with compressed air.... and testing.... but it now looks fine..... ????
On another issue, units with TVG caps removed, need to be manually set for DST... But you probably know this already!!! :)!

Hi Jan
All I know is our converters will reset the clock, if you plug it in and start auto scan tilll chn 3shows pretty quick, then emter-emter to stop all other scans, other channels are still there, then power off, if have new time, swap back to comcast cable.

I presume/guess with your TVGOS cap gone, it is also stoppng cbs/converter auto clock reset.

Guessing tvgos is sendind us a old clock signal we can still recieve from CBS-DIGITAL-Converter, thanks Macro V for that little bit of a ver 7 signal .

Have been experincing lock ups about 1 a week.

Will test my unit with cap if you say what to do, guessing your unit with cap is getting guide info, from Canada/locking, --- i get no data from CCast.

PS if i lose power over 6-10 seconds, i loose correct time, i use 1-2 sec reboot.

Couple months ago when I put the cap back in the 3410a in case the fix TVG did for one thing fixed 3410a.... I did get data, and clock, but 3410a still would lock up in ~3 days... and never got a full week of data... but one day would have data, other day no listings, or a couple channels with data, but not all...
It's the lockup that involves a power cycle that killed the experiment.... To this day, one unit has a switch wired in, so that in the future I can enable TVG cap at will.... but I'm afraid that I've wasted a switch and cap......

Come on TVG folks, make a liar out of me!! :D!

On another subject.... Has anyone ever seen a stand alone ATSC modulator that can be fed from component Analog video and stereo analog audio?

I put the cap back in the 3410a in case the fix TVG did for one thing fixe d 3410a.... I did get data, and clock, but 3410a still would lock up
It's the lockup that involves a power cycle that killed the experiment....


JUST CLOCK RESET FOR VCR+ WITHOUT LOCK UPS, IDEAS -

1 Did you try, turning off cap, just after the clock reset, to prevent re-entering 5-15 vcr+ recordings.

2 If u use cap/on switch so converter will reset the clock,reset, plug it in and start auto scan tilll converter chn 3 shows, pretty quick, then enter-enter to stop all other scans, other channels are still there, then power off 3410 , if have new time, TURN OFF CAP, if needed in 6 seconds, before getting/downloading the bad tvgos data, locking you up, that you get from canada/chiago, & swap back to comcast cable, without your cap on. A pain, unless switching is easy, but might reset clock without re-entering 5-15 vcr+ recordings.

3 A channel blocker, for your incoming, comast bad locking TVGOS data channel, would work, caps in, allowing clock/converter reset, for all your units, There're avalible - $30-$150.

Has anyone ever seen a stand alone ATSC modulator that can be fed from component Analog video and stereo analog audio?The ZVBox (http://zeevee.com/residential) almost qualifies. It accepts VGA or component video and digital audio and outputs up to 720p60 QAM on your choice of channel for a mere $1499 MSRP.

The only other ATSC modulator for home use that I've heard of is the sidecar that was briefly available for a certain model of Dish Network receiver. It used MPEG-2 from the receiver's high speed data port.

The Output RF ATSC? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=851974) thread discusses the topic.

My front panel doesn't display anything but the on/off button on the front works, Thanks to Jan J post, I measured the front panel power outputs:

1 FD(+) reads -23.86v
2 FD(-) reads -25.07v
3 29v reads -25.14
4 GND

I didn't upgrade the power supply yet. Wondering if these values are expected, if yes, wondering if something went wrong with front panel pcb. Thanks for your help.