Originally posted by Hyrax
Phil -
Interesting that you can use digital stations. I cannot.
For my zip code, I need channel 2 from Boston, a PBS station. I tried using all 21 of my OTA digital stations without any of the analog one and it didn't work. It is no big deal needing the one analog station, but I sure wish the whole process wasn't shrouded in mystery.

If I give it a New Hampshire zip code, I need an analog ABC station from New Hampshire.

Well, that's my real complaint. Everything seems shrouded in mystery. I suppose LG wanted to simplify the manual as much as possible. But who did they think would be buying the 3410A? They should have known that the typical buyer would be the type who wants/needs the complete details of operation.

Maybe they should keep the original manual for Joe Average, and add a second "Geeks' Handbook" for the rest of us. :)

I am using it for OTA only and I have all the NTSC channels turned off. We don't have a public station that broadcasts digitally in Atlanta but our local ABC station does. So far I've had no problems with the guide and the picture quality is better than the Samsung 151 I was using. I especially like the aspect ratio and display format output options this unit has. I leave mine in native mode in order to let my plasma do the deinterlacing duties. Overall I'm very satisified with the 3410a.

-Skip

SR,

What type of monitor are you using? I use a CRT Front projector, DWIN HD700. It must be one of the sync leads because all three colors vary in brightness together.

Others,

I only have digital channels programmed and my guide info comes in fine every night. Sure wish we had an indicator to show whwn there is no lock. I've had so many bad recordings now that I'm about ready to return the replacement unit for a fefund unless something dramatic happens.

Guide data can be received from either OTA RF connection, CATV RF Connection, or AV1 (when from a cable box).

I would assume that your owner's manual concerns are prolly being directed at teh wrong place. LG is buying the guide from Gemstar. Gemstar keeps a tight lip on the detqils of how the guide is sent. Of course, if they didn't, people would be calling most every local station to complain.

I delt with Guide Plus a lot when I worked in the CE industry, and see that nothing has really changed with the Gemstar guide services. As much as it may be a pain at times, it is a LOT better than having to depend on local PSIP data for guide info.

BTW, Philly, I have been getting the Guide off cable on the RF input from day one. :)

So, nobody has connected the 3410 to the Mits 1100 d-vhs?

-Reagan

Just to update my own question, I got a response back from 169Time about the AVX-1 and the 3410a. Basically they do not work together at this time. 169Time is investigating the issue and their web page will be updated if and when a solution becomes available.

Until that time, the best (only only) way to record AVX-1 output to the 3410a is to first record to the 30000U from the AVX-1. The 30000U output then can be dubbed to the 3410a. A long two step process but it should work.

This post is to respond to several questions above and to raise some new issues with my 3-week-old 3410a. It cost $969 + $20 shipping from an eBay listing by a co. in NJ whose name I can't recall and invoice I can't find. Whoever it was provided fast service (2 days for initial shipment) and a good overall buying experience. The item was listed Buy It Now and here's the link to my purchase so you can check for possible new listings:
ishttp://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3078401547&category=15071&sspagename=STRK%3AMEBWN%3AIT&rd=1

Mine is connected to a Toshiba 34HD82 CRT and I'm using its DVI in. Actually, I have a M-F DVI cable coming out of the TV into which I can plug the male ends of the DVI cables out from either the LG or my Bravo DVD player.

PQ is stable, consistent, and excellent for SD signals, awesome for HD. I've had no problems with hardware and I'm happy with the 3410's quality. I'm still glad I bought the LG, but have found some significant shortcomings (some mentioned below) and I share some of those concerns posted above.

Responses to other posts:
The guide I download does contain DTV channels. They show up in the guide in the leftmost, gray column with the channel number/name joined with "DT". The analog stations lack this DT.

I receive both cable (no box) and OTA signals, including analog, HD, and SD. I'm getting a bunch more channels than I did pre-LG, even though my cable service hasn't changed. For e.g., I now get a 40 or so strong, new(to me) digital signals from cable, but most times I tune them or surf to them, there's no program. Then later, one may "appear" that is not shown in my Guide or any other listings I check. Apparently, these sometimes show PPV programs that someone else in my neighborhood has ordered, but I'm not really sure what makes them work.

My issues/questions:
You can edit any channel to be a "surf" channel, including the primary channel number (e.g., 122) for those "bonus" PPV broadcasts I'm getting. This is a nice feature because you can quickly see what's on your favorite channels by clicking the surf button on the remote. OTOH, it's apparently impossible to designate the specific sub-channels you really want to visit. For e.g., say that 111-44 is one I want in my surf list. If I add this one and designate it for surfing, it usually is added as 111-1 to the surf list. Then, when I surf it will go to 111.1, and then I must manually enter 111-44, assuming that I can remember that its -44 I want and not 111-34, or whatever. Much better would be the capacity to designate the full channel/sub numbering, unless it's there and I'm just missing how it works.

Likewise, while I like the EZ-scan, it'd be nice to be able to run it without wiping out all the Guide info., etc.. Even nicer would be for the scanner, in what I'd call this "supplemental scan" mode, to return only those channels that are actually transmitting images at the time of the scan (and not include all those channels/subs that ocassionally transmit but that are now blank/black). Anyone figured this out? If not, as these seem to be software issues, I wonder whether LG will ever release an update that can be downloaded via the Guide or some other means?

Another oddity is that channels will mysteriously appear, then disappear hours or days later. One e.g. is HBO, which at first appeared on 101-51 in HD (awesome!), but now can be found elsewhere and only in scrambled form. Similarly, one day my only source for HD versions of ABC and CBS was OTA antenna reception, but a couple of days ago, I started getting cable HD for both! More interesting, our cable co. is not yet claiming to provide HD in this market! I guess they've lately been making a bunch of changes--its the only explanation I can think of.

Another question is whether anyone has tried archiving to an external HD using the 1394 output? I realize that the 3410a doesn't support this, but at least one other poster to this thread has had success dumping to, I believe, a Mac PC.

Tim

Mister HiFi, I am using 5 bnc (RGBHV) connection to a Sony VPH-G70 projector. I would speak to Dwin and LG technical support regarding the brightness issue.

Originally posted by KornerKlub

BTW, Philly, I have been getting the Guide off cable on the RF input from day one. :)

Excellent news. Thanks.

Is the a way to do a timed record off the AV-2 input? (or off the AV-1 input other than by using the Guide)

I get Cable off input AV-1, but get my HBO off Satellite and the AV-2 input, since the price and picture quality is better off Satellite. I can do without the Guide on AV-2, but would like to set up timed recordings off the AV-2 input. Is there a way to do this other than just manually starting the recording when the program starts? My old VCR would allow this, but apparently the 3410a doesn't allow this capability.

Originally posted by sr
Mister HiFi, I am using 5 bnc (RGBHV) connection to a Sony VPH-G70 projector. I would speak to Dwin and LG technical support regarding the brightness issue.

I have spoken to LGE's technical support. They said all they could do was take the report because they had not run into this problem before. I use the same path for the LST3410A, an RCA DTC100 STB and a Motorola HDD200 HD decoder. I send the signal through a Zektor HDS-4 RGBHV switcher through the RGBHV input on a DWIN Transcanner which connects to a DWIN HD700 . The lRCA and Motorola operate perfectly.

Are you certain that the overall brightness does not change when the scene has large portions of the field get brighter or darker, e.g. a bright window or light or conversely, a dark wall or room? This only happens through that VGA connector. Everything is perfect through the S connection but then of course it is not in HD.

I don't notice what you are seeing. I do use an Extron AV4 RGBHV switcher. Have you switched ports on your switcher and the cable to the 3410?

SR,

I have been doing this for 40+ years. Yes I switched cables and followed simple procedures for checking cables and devices. I am concerned about the sync voltages. I know the DWIN likes +/-.75V. I'm not sure what the 1080i puts out at 1080i. If you know, please let me know.

BenSanford, I have that same question into LG customer service. I've actually called twice since I have yet to receive an answer. I suspect this was an unexpected feature.

The difference from your situation is that I'm OTA only and use one of the AV inputs for satellite. There seems to be no way to do timer recordings off this input.

Please call LG at 1-800-942-3786 and ask for a solution to this problem. The more inquiries concerning the lack of this function working, the quicker (in theory) they will respond. Just tell them what you are trying to do and what the 3410a does in response.

Does anyone know if the design of the 3410 allows for user firmware upgrades in the field, and, whether LG-Zenith has a prior history of updating any of their STB's this way?

No they don't.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
No they don't.

Lovely.

Even Samsung has done this when necessary.

Historically, LG has performed all updates themselves. They don't tend to give customers access to the Serial Port.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Historically, LG has performed all updates themselves. They don't tend to give customers access to the Serial Port.

KornerKlub

Oh well, that's good.

At least they do have some policy/history of upgrading firmware/software when necessary and possible to cure problems or enhance functionality.

I have another question on skipping commercials. Is anyone using a universal remote with the 3410A? Is it possible to setup macros to emulate a 30 second skip? Seems like you could program a button on a universal remote which simulates holding down the x5 or x20 button down for a certain amount of time which fast forwards for 30 seconds. Anyone try this?

John

Originally posted by jcg
Is the x5 and x20 seperate buttons on the remote? Or is it one button that keeps increasing the FF speed the more you hit it?

I've had my replay for years now so I've gotten so used to the 30 second skip I'm not sure how I would like this. Most commercial blocks tend to be 3 or 4 minutes, so it's a quick 6 hits of the skip button (or 8) which takes 2-3 seconds and your show is back on. At x20 my calculations shows it takes 9-12 seconds to skip the 3-4 minute commercial blocks (plus it seems like more concentration watching for when the commercials end). This sound about right based on your observations?

I wonder if LG has any plans to add the 30 sec skip feature as it wouldn't be hard to do. Do any LG reps monitor this forum like some other vendors do on other threads?

John

Anyone know if 3410As are on shipment hold? I know a few people have reported problems with 3410s, but I've been on the list with my local dealer to get one and everytime I call it's like next week the delivery is due. But the problem is this has been going on for about a month now, so it makes me think LG isn't actually shipping any new stuff out the door?

John

On March 17, 2004 I asked LGE for a refund. The lady said it would take a week before I heard from them with a decision because three levels of management have to agree for a refund. I really love this PVR but can not watch it at 1080i because of the brightness variability issue. They had offered to send me another unit to try over a week ago and never sent it. When i called to find out why it had not arrived, the lady said they had no units to send out and if i wanted to start the refund process she would. Sounds to me like there's a problem with these. I've had one burn up and have the brightness anomaly, the other works but has the brightness problem. Both had lousy response to the remote control inputs. The tuner is great and the PVR records flawlessly. Now if they could get it to deliver the picture properly and engineer the remote to be more forgiving, they would have a superb unit. Too late for me.

Originally posted by jcg
I have another question on skipping commercials. Is anyone using a universal remote with the 3410A? Is it possible to setup macros to emulate a 30 second skip? Seems like you could program a button on a universal remote which simulates holding down the x5 or x20 button down for a certain amount of time which fast forwards for 30 seconds. Anyone try this?

John

I have the SONY AV-3000 remote and yes I have it set up to skip, but I do not use the x5 x20...ect I have it using the drag+ which will skip faster over the un wanted video parts. Works very nice either way I have one for x5,x20,x50,x300 that will move a set amount of time. and one that use the Drag+ (hit it fast and do not hold it down). You should work with the Drag+ on the LG remote it dose work ok for skipping. I use it amybe 3-4 times then I use the contact- bottum to get back to the start of the program.

Well, my 3410A lost all Guide data again (2nd time) overnight. I noticed something was wrong when the green "Reserved" light was not lit on the front panel. Sure enough, the recording schedule was gone.

This had nothing to do with the position of the indoor antennas, since the Guide had already begun to renew itself. Days 1,2,3 and 8 data were present.

At one point, when exiting the Guide, the entire TV screen turned yellow except for the live picture in the upper left corner. All controls were frozen. Unplugging the unit and restarting brought it back to normal.

Ah, to be on the bleeding edge!

Originally posted by PhillyC
All controls were frozen. Unplugging the unit and restarting brought it back to normal.

Ah, to be on the bleeding edge!

That's very similar to the problem I had with my 1st one. It would just freeze up, every few hours, etc. I've had a replacement for about a week and so far it hasn't shown this same problem.

For those who have owned both the LG 3410 and the Samsung T165, how would you compare just the OTA & DVHS-1394 Picture Quality of the two, particularly over DVI?

Originally posted by mkerdman
For those who have owned both the LG 3410 and the Samsung T165, how would you compare just the OTA & DVHS-1394 Picture Quality of the two, particularly over DVI? The LG is much better over DVI or component.

Originally posted by umr
The LG is much better over DVI or component.

umr

What display do you have your 3410 running through?

Originally posted by jcg
I have another question on skipping commercials. Is anyone using a universal remote with the 3410A? Is it possible to setup macros to emulate a 30 second skip? Seems like you could program a button on a universal remote which simulates holding down the x5 or x20 button down for a certain amount of time which fast forwards for 30 seconds. Anyone try this?

John One of my VCRs has a 30 second skip button. Very handy. If you know a commercial break will be 2 minutes, you just tap the button 4 times and it stops FF after 2 minutes.

A question about the 3410A - I heard you can't record one program while watching another. I assumed this meant I couldn't timeshift. Someone tells me that's not true, that you CAN timeshift with the 3410A. Is that true, and if so, how? i.e. can I watch the first part of a program I'm in the middle of recording and still record the conclusion?

And what is the best way of skipping commercials with this thing?

At first glance I thought the HD DirecTivo was the way to go - until I saw that you have to subscribe to DirecTV before they will sell you one. I have no current intention to subscribe to anything.

Originally posted by mkerdman
umr

What display do you have your 3410 running through?

A Sony KF-50XBR800.

I have both the 3410a and t165 connected to a 503cmx with a303 card.

I can't tell any difference in PQ via dvi. However, I can see the towers from my house. PQ is outstanding on both.

good luck

Lew

re D-vhs: I have the 3410a and t165 both connected to a Mits 2000 d-vhs.
The 3410a recognizes both machines are connected but will only operate the d-vhs if the 165 is turned ON. I can therefore record from 165 to Mits and then play back through the 3410a. The playback through the 3410a is very smooth and easy, not like the grief of playback through the 165.

ymmv

Originally posted by Muse
A question about the 3410A - I heard you can't record one program while watching another. I assumed this meant I couldn't timeshift. Someone tells me that's not true, that you CAN timeshift with the 3410A. Is that true, and if so, how? i.e. can I watch the first part of a program I'm in the middle of recording and still record the conclusion?

And what is the best way of skipping commercials with this thing?
[/B]

You CANNOT record one program while watching another program.

But you can timeshift a currently recording program, and move back to the start of the recording or move forward to any part of the record part.

YES you can timeshift a show being recorded.

and "can I watch the first part of a program I'm in the middle of recording and still record the conclusion?" is YES, but you must have used the timeshift to start the recording, You cannot view a show that is being record with a preset record program, until it has finished recording.

"And what is the best way of skipping commercials with this thing?"
I like hit the Drag+ button to move over commercials, I do not like the Skip+ because you need to hit the bttom many times to skip, because the skip is based on screen change contanct.

Originally posted by lewlew
I have both the 3410a and t165 connected to a 503cmx with a303 card.

I can't tell any difference in PQ via dvi.

The playback through the 3410a is very smooth and easy, not like the grief of playback through the 165.


Lew

I just received a 3410 and on first viewing it seemed the PQ of the Samsung might actually be better. I need to A/B them this weekend.

I ma surprised to hear the the 3410 allowed two components to be connected simultaneously, much less, required them both to be powered before providing picture and sound.

The 3410 would not allow playback with a daisy chain of the 169Time AVX-1/HDVR connected to the JVC30K.

Once I removed the 169Time components playback was fine.

What was so bad about the DVHS implementation in the T165 that works better in the 3410?

In DC tonight my 3410 recorded 3 hours of a cruisline still picture promo with the regular program audio in the background. It was set to record the ABC WJLA-TV Fri night Digital programming. Luckily I also ran my analog VCR and captured the programs that way.

Mine records everything flawlessly in Houston .

I only have a rooftop UHF/DTV antenna connected to the 3410, and, setup TVGuide accordingly.

I scanned edited and accepted my eight or so local networks, PBS and major locals.

I left if ff overnight and recieved no EPG data.

What might I be missing?

mkerdman:

Playback of mits 2000 through the t165 is very cumbersome if you use the 165's firewire controls. ( This does work great if all you are doing is letting the tape run to the end uninterupted. Trying to skip over commercials requires an abundance of correct button pushes.) If you try to use the mits' controls directly you end up with multiple "no signal" signs on the screen that are all but impossible to quickly remove. This results in negative numbers on the WAF.

With the 3410a otoh once the d-vhs is powered up via the1394 all controls (play, ff , rw ,stop ) ar controlled by one push on the 3410a remote.

Daisy chain- I have the 3410a connected to the mits 2000 and the t165 connected to the mits 2000. When entering the 1394 button my screen shows a choice of the mits or the samsung 165. If I choose 165 it displays "not supported" or something similiar. If I choose mits the 3410a will only control the mits if the 165 is turned on or has it's firewire removed from the back if the mits. Kind of weird but not that difficult to work with.

No OTA guide- been there done exactly as you have with the same results. You will need to put back the "right" analog channel onto the guide, the analog channel that is carrying the guide info. I have no idea which one it is so I put back all the majors. The analog channels show up in the front of the guide so I just renumbered them 2-1 6-1 etc and then renumbered the second set of majors 2-0 6-0 etc.

With the 3410 off my guide actually started filling in in the afternoon. go figure.

Lew

hello... by using a semi-redundant hdr230 one might watch one program while recording another with the 3410A . does anyone know if the remote control codes overlap between the hdr230 and 3410A ? i'm hoping & thinking local adelphia DTV is in-the-clear and not HRC or anything similarly nonstandard. by the way i hear that in Korean mountain cave a shroud was discovered that has the dim outline of an LST-3410A.

I currently have the LG LST 3410 and Samsung SIR-T165 both hooked up by DVI to an Infocus SP 1280X720P DLP projector on a large screen through a Gefen 4X1 switch.

As such, I am able to A/B the two STB's, and, the 3410 comes up soft with both poorer black levels and color saturation.

I tried 1080i and 720P OTA material switching the T165 so both STB's were at the same output resolution for each resolution.

I also tried a D-Theater tape of Alien with the same results.

It would take considerable tweaking of the SP 7200 saved to a custom memory to bring the 3410 PQ into line.

I am bummed because I wanted to like the 3410 more simply because of the native output mode and the DVR Time Shift feature.

mkerdman,

These two STB's do not output the same signal levels. They need to be calibrated differently. I find the T165 to be off compared to the 3410. The T165 required SM adjustments on my set to even be usable over DVI. The 3410 levels appear to be much more normal. I see no difference in resolution using a 720p version of DVE between the two. The LG does a much better job converting 480p/i broadcasts to 1080i or 720p. The T165 did a poor job with this.

Originally posted by MrHifi
In DC tonight my 3410 recorded 3 hours of a cruisline still picture promo with the regular program audio in the background. It was set to record the ABC WJLA-TV Fri night Digital programming. Luckily I also ran my analog VCR and captured the programs that way.

I tuned across WJLA last night and saw the same thing you did.... a Carnival Cruise Lines still frame from a commercial and the program audio. The problem was not with the LG, but with master control at WJLA-DT.


Lee Schuman

Originally posted by umr
mkerdman,

These two STB's do not output the same signal levels. They need to be calibrated differently. I find the T165 to be off compared to the 3410. The T165 required SM adjustments on my set to even be usable over DVI. The 3410 levels appear to be much more normal. I see no difference in resolution using a 720p version of DVE between the two. The LG does a much better job converting 480p/i broadcasts to 1080i or 720p. The T165 did a poor job with this.

umr

"These two STB's do not output the same signal levels. They need to be calibrated differently."

What do you mean here? I can hook up any number of source devices with no calibration and get a very watchable picture.

If I need to greatly adjust my display from a normal factory gamma setting, then I know something is wrong.

"The T165 required SM adjustments on my set to even be usable over DVI. The 3410 levels appear to be much more normal. "

What display do you have?

A Sony KF-50XBR800. The black level on my T165 is way different than the 3410A.

Originally posted by umr
A Sony KF-50XBR800. The black level on my T165 is way different than the 3410A.

umr

I also get greatly different PQ results from the two STB's.

It's just that on my DLP (vs. your LCD) it is in favor of the T165 on all material at all resolutions.

Originally posted by mkerdman
umr

I also get greatly different PQ results from the two STB's.

It's just that on my DLP (vs. your LCD) it is in favor of the T165 on all material at all resolutions.

mkerdman

Have you set the DVI Level on the 3410 to "Expand"? If not, do so and then try again.

KornerClub

Like most "know-it-all" Americans I did not read the manual throughly and failed to set the DVI Level on the 3410 to "Expand".

It makes a big difference on my DLP.

I will not be able to critically compare it until nightfall, but, I suspect it will bring the performance of the 3410 up substantially. It should now be on a par, or, better than, the Samsung because of the native output alone.

Thanks!

The only other useful thing to me about the Samsung T165 is that it allows me to leave the 169Time STB hooked up to the JVC 30K. If I put in any DVHS tape, and, press PLAY and then STOP, I can then monitor the 169Time STB output live over DVI, which is an output the 169Time STB itself does not have.

For me this is helpful.

Anybody with a new LG 3410 who wants to sell a good working Samsung T165 cheap should PM me?

Is there any way to do a timer recording (i.e. not directly hitting the record button at the start of a program) of an OTA HD in hd via firewire or any other connection to the JVC 30K? I've looked at some of the issues on the T165 and Motorola 6200 which indicates that you can't.
joe

Originally posted by jlanzy
Is there any way to do a timer recording (i.e. not directly hitting the record button at the start of a program) of an OTA HD in hd via firewire or any other connection to the JVC 30K? I've looked at some of the issues on the T165 and Motorola 6200 which indicates that you can't.
joe

I was able to do this with my T165, but the clock problems were a BIG problem in Houston. I have not attempted this with the 3410A and don't see a need for it myself.

I was asking about recording hd directly to dvhs in the event I fill my hdd with its smallish 120GB, which is getting filled quickly now. I do plan to get Hitachi's new parallel ATA 400GB when it hits retailers next month, but until then I'd have to start dumping already recorded material on the hdd to dvhs which I was hoping to avoid.
joe

Originally posted by jlanzy
I was asking about recording hd directly to dvhs in the event I fill my hdd with its smallish 120GB, which is getting filled quickly now. I do plan to get Hitachi's new parallel ATA 400GB when it hits retailers next month, but until then I'd have to start dumping already recorded material on the hdd to dvhs which I was hoping to avoid.
joe

You could always upgrade to an intermediate sized drive. My 200 GB Seagate seems plenty large for me and only cost $99.

Do any of you watch the programs you record or just play with the machines?

Originally posted by KornerKlub
mkerdman

Have you set the DVI Level on the 3410 to "Expand"? If not, do so and then try again.

KornerKlub

Well, it's a pleasure to report that the "DVI Expand" gamma algorithm setting on the 3410 makes all the difference in the world on a DLP projector.

The resulting PQ of the 3410 is stellar, and superior to the Samsung T165 as well as most or all analog output STB's I have seen or used.

Thanks again, without your post I very well might have missed out on a good thing.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Do any of you watch the programs you record or just play with the machines?

I watch it. There is nothing to play with.

I was bouncing a few items from the 30000U to the 3410a and then back again and found a couple of oddities this weekend. The reason I did this was to do some editing with the 3410a. Editing with the 3410a is sure a lot easier than trying it with the 30000u.

1) The total recording time is incorrect. If I send 2:10 minutes over the 1394 interface to the 3410a, it reports around 1:50 minutes of recording time. If I then send it back to the 30000U, the full 2:10 is played back. I wonder if the 3410a's new 250GB drive is messing up the time algorithms?? This doesn't seem to happen with over the air recordings direct to the 3410a.

2) If you use the "clip edit" function, go into FF or Rew (while in clip edit) and then go into the opposite direction (Rew or FF) the word "edit" is misspelled as "eidt". Going back into the original direction (FF or Rew) returns returns the word to "edit". So much for software QA.

I have set up the 3410 and told it I have and antenna and selected my (8) local HD-DTV stations and get no listings that way.

I tired adding just PBS and ABC analog to my Edited an Saved channels thinking they carry the EPG data, but, no luck.

When I tell it I have cable it of course gets all stations associated with my local cable provider, but, no HD-DTV OTA stations.

What is the correct procedure to get EPG data for OTA DTV channels?

Thanks in advance.

BTW, I called LG because it asks to you to on the box and they told me to call TVGuide.

You will only get Guide data for the OTA HD channels if TV Guide has it to give. Gemstar has only such much bandwidth to use and pick-and-chooses which channels to give guide for. Ironically, in my area I received guide data for network channels that I do not receive. So I just remapped that data to the channel numbers for my OTA HD channels. Since they are both networks, the data is usually correct.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
You will only get Guide data for the OTA HD channels if TV Guide has it to give. Gemstar has only such much bandwidth to use and pick-and-chooses which channels to give guide for. Ironically, in my area I received guide data for network channels that I do not receive. So I just remapped that data to the channel numbers for my OTA HD channels. Since they are both networks, the data is usually correct.

KornerKlub

So, there is no dedicated HDTV listings similar to TitanTV?

Is everyone just remapping the analog EPG data and using their own knowledge, or TTV, as to what is HD and what is not?

Where is the screen to remap the analog "CBS" to the digital channel number?

Originally posted by mkerdman
...Is everyone just remapping the analog EPG data and using their own knowledge, or TTV, as to what is HD and what is not?...

This is not required in Houston. UPN digital requires remapping of the digital channel because it is wrong in the data.

Look in the manual it shows you how to remap the guide.

Originally posted by umr
This is not required in Houston. UPN digital requires remapping of the digital channel because it is wrong in the data.
Look in the manual it shows you how to remap the guide.


If you tell TVGuide that you have an antenna, will it get any EPG data about the DTV broadcasts provided by TVGuide and set out over ABCor PBS, or, does it default to PSIP at that point?

For those of you who might be wondering approximately how many hours of HD data the 3410A HDD will hold and what will happen when recording/timeshifting if the disk becomes full:

As an experiment, I let the 3410A HDD fill up to within 1 minute of being full (according to the program display). I then started a manual record which lasted 3 minutes and stopped with the disk full message. Then I deleted the 3 minute segment.

The HDD at that point held just over 14 hours of recorded programs. But adding up the file sizes of the stored programs gave a total of 104 GB, 16 GB short of the 120 GB disk size.

Interestingly, the remaining 16 GB of space seems to be reserved for Timeshifting (and probably for system files), since the Timeshift function still worked. I started the Timeshift function, which continued to record for about 35 minutes, whereupon approximately 10 minutes was deleted from the beginning of the buffer, and Timeshifting continued forward. This last sequence was repeated about every 10 minutes.

I did not test this with more of the first 104 GB available, but I would assume that that space would be used for timeshifting as well as the reserved space. Reserved space may be used first, which is why the remaining time display is not affected by Timeshifting. (Or does lengthy Timeshifting affect the remaining time display eventually?)

Since OTA HD (for me) averages less than 8 GB per hour, it would appear that about 1/4 of the 16 GB reserved space is used for timeshifting, and the rest for system files.


Conclusions:

1) The 3410A works as advertised (or better) with respect to HD recording time available, even though you don't get full use of the 120 GB.
2) Timeshifting works as advertised, with the added twist of a "reserved space" even when the HDD is "full".
3) We can assume that the problems of LG's (Zenith's) earlier DVR do not exist here, since no data was lost during these tests.

Originally posted by mkerdman
If you tell TVGuide that you have an antenna, will it get any EPG data about the DTV broadcasts provided by TVGuide and set out over ABCor PBS, or, does it default to PSIP at that point?

Mine gets the TVGuide data in Houston with only DTV channels active.

Simple solution to those that must delete channels and then prevent Guide downloads:

Do not delete network and PBS channels in the LST-3410A's menu. This removes the channels from the tuner's memory. The TV Guide portion needs tuner access to these channels. Instead, if you feel that you must remove these channels, simply remove them with the TV Guide setup portion.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Simple solution to those that must delete channels and then prevent Guide downloads:

Do not delete network and PBS channels in the LST-3410A's menu. This removes the channels from the tuner's memory. The TV Guide portion needs tuner access to these channels. Instead, if you feel that you must remove these channels, simply remove them with the TV Guide setup portion.

I deleted all analog channels from the 3410A's channel list and I still get guide data. It must depend on location.

Originally posted by umr
I deleted all analog channels from the 3410A's channel list and I still get guide data. It must depend on location.

It does depend on location. That is why various people have various problems. ;)

Originally posted by KornerKlub
It does depend on location. That is why various people have various problems. ;)

I forgot just how simplistic the programmers at Gemstar can be.

Do you get program descriptions?

My RCA 32" w/GuidePlus Gold does, but, the descritions I have seen so far in the 3410 consist of the next 3-6 hour sof programming on the current channel, not a program synopsis and the names of the actors you might see in oh, say, TV Guide.

It's ironic that Gemstar has sued and often won over the IP patents that other EPG's have put to much better use than have VCR+/GuidePlus/TV Guide.

Is there anyway to tell the 3410 Guide I do not have cable, yet still tune cable channels? My reasoning is this:

Our digital cable provider is Bellsouth, which is a pretty small provider with a limited area. Thus, if I tell the 3410 we have cable, but no box, I have to select "No Match" for the channel lineup, then manually assign the correct channel numbers. This would be O.K., but after leaving the box off and letting it acquire the Guide data, the 3410 setup menu pops up and makes me run EZ Scan again. This gets my channel listings and Guide data all scrambled. I can't ignore the request to run EZ Scan, as it pops up until I do it.

If I tell the 3410 we don't have cable, then I cannot manually tune cable channels. I would like to be able to manually program it to record a few cable channels.

BTW, tonight I tried moving the OTA digital up to the top of the Guide - a very lengthy process. I may have screwed up, because I had it setup to record the CBS News from one of the digital channels I moved. I turned the unit off. It missed the scheduled recording, then refused to turn on. I had to unplug it to get it to turn on, but then it had no time set on the clock. Everytime I tried to set the clock, it told me I would have to delete the scheduled recordings first. Yet, it refused to let me enter the Guide so I could delete the scheduled events.

I called LG's customer service; for the third time a big disappointment. They are always very nice, but clueless. The rep spent >25 minutes asking me to try various menu options, many of which did not exist. All the while I could hear her flipping pages in a manual and she put me on hold several times for 3-4 minutes. We finally realized she was reading from the 3510 manual - not the 3410 manual. I politely explained that the 3410 had a DVR, not a DVD player. Unfortunately, another 40 minutes yielded no further results. She did say she would have someone more knowlegable call tomorrow, but I swear I don't think I ever gave her my phone number, just my email address.

The LG is light years beyond the Samsung 165 P.O.S. it replaced, and I don't miss the 165 one bit, but at least we could sometimes get Samsung's Steve Plechy on the phone. He really knew the product. LG needs to provide MUCH better training for their customer service reps.

Jim

Suppose I use the 3410A to record a 3 hour program and walk in 1/2 way through the recording. Can I start watching it immediately from the beginning while recording the rest?

When viewing the On-Screen INFO and TV Guide EPG, does anyone get Program Descriptions like the sample below, or just the name of the program?


I get similar data on my RCA TV with Gemstar GuidePlus, but, not so with the TV Guide in the 3410.

------------------------------------------------------
NYPD Blue

Old Yeller

A kidnapping victim's startling statement clues Andy and John in on a serial sadist keeping women locked in a dungeon somewhere in New York. Meanwhile, a routine robbery investigation takes a saucy turn for Medavoy (2004)

Dennis Franz, Gordon Clapp, Esai Morales, Garcelle Beauvais-Nilon, Charlotte Ross

Police/Crime Drama
-----------------------------------------------------

I usually get similar descriptions, just without the list of actors.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
I usually get similar descriptions, just without the list of actors.

Are you downloading the analog channel and re-mapping, or, the actual "2-1" DTV channel?

Originally posted by mkerdman
Are you downloading the analog channel and re-mapping, or, the actual "2-1" DTV channel?

All Guide Data is sent on analog.

Originally posted by merton
Is there anyway to tell the 3410 Guide I do not have cable, yet still tune cable channels? My reasoning is this:

Our digital cable provider is Bellsouth, which is a pretty small provider with a limited area. Thus, if I tell the 3410 we have cable, but no box, I have to select "No Match" for the channel lineup, then manually assign the correct channel numbers. This would be O.K., but after leaving the box off and letting it acquire the Guide data, the 3410 setup menu pops up and makes me run EZ Scan again. This gets my channel listings and Guide data all scrambled. I can't ignore the request to run EZ Scan, as it pops up until I do it.

If I tell the 3410 we don't have cable, then I cannot manually tune cable channels. I would like to be able to manually program it to record a few cable channels.

BTW, tonight I tried moving the OTA digital up to the top of the Guide - a very lengthy process. I may have screwed up, because I had it setup to record the CBS News from one of the digital channels I moved. I turned the unit off. It missed the scheduled recording, then refused to turn on. I had to unplug it to get it to turn on, but then it had no time set on the clock. Everytime I tried to set the clock, it told me I would have to delete the scheduled recordings first. Yet, it refused to let me enter the Guide so I could delete the scheduled events.
Jim

You have to tell the 3410A you have cable for it to tune cable. What do you mean by "Guide data all scrambled up" after the second EZ-Scan?

When you manually assign channel numbers, have you first tried turning all of the unwanted channels off? I haven't had to try this, but the box is supposed to have a way to deal with your situation.

Yes, moving the OTA's up to the top of the list is a pain, but it doesn't cause any problems. However, I have has other Guide lockup troubles.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
All Guide Data is sent on analog.

KornerKlub

Regardless of how it is sent, I do now receive EPG for my CBS-DT channel 2-1.

It's just devoid of any detail other than the name of the program (i.e. CSI: Miami).

So, I was asking if the analog CBS channel 2 in L.A. would have the description whereas the DTV channel does not.

Also, if you remap a channel number from analog to show the DTV equivalent, will the RECORD feature work on the DTV channel (i.e. 2.1 not 2)?

Originally posted by mkerdman
So, I was asking if the analog CBS channel 2 in L.A. would have the description whereas the DTV channel does not.

Also, if you remap a channel number from analog to show the DTV equivalent, will the RECORD feature work on the DTV channel (i.e. 2.1 not 2)?

All of the data for my OTD HD is actually remapped from other stations. As luck would have it for my area, all the Wxxx-DT channels in the guide are not my stations. So I just mapped to one of them. and yes, it does record properly.

I'm still patiently waiting for the next batch of 3410s to come in, so I don't have mine yet but did ask a bunch of questions on skipping commercials and timeshifting earlier in this thread.

I believe in this scenario you could turn off the record (during a commercial if you don't want to lose anything) when you walk in, then hit the timeshift key so it will immediately start recording again using the timeshift function, then start watching the first 1/2 hour that was recorded, and when that ends you start watching the timeshifted part.

Again I don't have one so if this is incorrect someone can correct me.

John

Originally posted by Muse
Suppose I use the 3410A to record a 3 hour program and walk in 1/2 way through the recording. Can I start watching it immediately from the beginning while recording the rest?

Originally posted by jcg
I'm still patiently waiting for the next batch of 3410s to come in, so I don't have mine yet but did ask a bunch of questions on skipping commercials and timeshifting earlier in this thread.

I believe in this scenario you could turn off the record (during a commercial if you don't want to lose anything) when you walk in, then hit the timeshift key so it will immediately start recording again using the timeshift function, then start watching the first 1/2 hour that was recorded, and when that ends you start watching the timeshifted part.

Again I don't have one so if this is incorrect someone can correct me.

John

That does not work. You can only watch the time-shifted program when you are time-shifting.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
All Guide Data is sent on analog.

How am I getting it then when all of my analog channels are deleted? The only channels I see on the guide and when I change channels are digital.

Originally posted by umr
How am I getting it then when all of my analog channels are deleted? The only channels I see on the guide and when I change channels are digital.

You are getting it, don't worry about it and watch TV.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
You are getting it, don't worry about it and watch TV.

I am not worried. It just seems inconsistent with your statement that it is only broadcast on analog stations. It appears to me that this market is broadcasting it in digital as well.

Originally posted by Muse
Suppose I use the 3410A to record a 3 hour program and walk in 1/2 way through the recording. Can I start watching it immediately from the beginning while recording the rest? So, is this possible?

I have not found a way to watch the start of a program that is already recording (yet).

Can you record onto the 3410 from the Motorola 6200 via firewire?

thanks

LG "customer service" has just confirmed that the LST-3410a will NOT timer record off AV1 or AV2 unless the device generates guide data over the guide data input port. It doesn't make much sense to limit the device since manual setting of timer recordings is also an option. Those are some really bad firmware requirements (IMHO).

So, I have sent an email to Mr. Michael Ahn, President of LG Electronics USA. Maybe that will get the ball rolling...

Originally posted by alk3997
I have not found a way to watch the start of a program that is already recording (yet). If that can't be done, it's a big knock on this box, AFAIC. Many's the time I record a program because I either know I'll be late or fear I'll be late for the start. Currently, I solve this by using two VCR's. I can stop one, watch it and record the rest on the other VCR (SVHS boxes). If the 3410A won't do this I may have to get the HD Tivo and get a subscription to DirecTV (they won't sell it to you unless you have that subscription). Besides, usually I much prefer doing things this way so I can skip the commercials. Therefore, I often do this even if I CAN make the start! Has anyone figured out a way to do this with the 3410A? It's just a drag if you have to wait for the program to be over (in "real time") before you can watch it.

Still waiting for a reply on my refund frm LGE. Now one of the managers is on vacation so I have to wait another week. Wish I'd never bought it. I now have a suspiscion of what might be the problem regarding the Brightness level changes I have reported on here. There are some really bad RGB to RGBHV transcoders on the market that exhibit strange behaviors. Brightness change is just one of the problems reported by others. If LGE transcodes its RGB signal to derive an RGBHV feed and used a cheap transcoder, that may be the problem. Different monitors react in various ways. Sure wish someone else would verify.

Originally posted by PhillyC
You have to tell the 3410A you have cable for it to tune cable. What do you mean by "Guide data all scrambled up" after the second EZ-Scan?

When you manually assign channel numbers, have you first tried turning all of the unwanted channels off? I haven't had to try this, but the box is supposed to have a way to deal with your situation.

Yes, moving the OTA's up to the top of the list is a pain, but it doesn't cause any problems. However, I have has other Guide lockup troubles.

All of my remapped and renumbered channels go back to what the guide thinks they should be - not what they actually are. So if you use the guide to record an event, you probably will get the wrong show. However, if I just manually setup the event, all is well.

Jim

OT FYI:

A while back, some were looking for 3410a dealers below MSRP.

I happened to notice today while roaming the VE site they are selling the 3410a for MSRP. On the first page of their sight, below the Geffen stuff they happen to mention a 10% discount to avs/tc people for anything at all on their site.

I received this discount on my pre-order in January through a similiar mention.

fwiw, ymmv

Lew

outputs? anyone?

I have ust placed my order for my LST-3410A and expect for it to arrive monday. In anticipation, I want to get all of my cables ready. Currently my monitor will be a Panasonic TH-42PWD4 and my AVR is a Rotel RSX-1065. My question is: Which connection will yeild greater flexibility / Picture quality? (a) connecting the 3410 to the Panasonic via the component output of the 3410 (possibly passing through the Rotel) or (b) connecting the 3410 to the panasonic directly with an RGB-> 5xBNC connection?

Any thoughts from the Gurus out there?

Originally posted by jcg
I'm still patiently waiting for the next batch of 3410s to come in, so I don't have mine yet but did ask a bunch of questions on skipping commercials and timeshifting earlier in this thread.

I believe in this scenario you could turn off the record (during a commercial if you don't want to lose anything) when you walk in, then hit the timeshift key so it will immediately start recording again using the timeshift function, then start watching the first 1/2 hour that was recorded, and when that ends you start watching the timeshifted part.

John

Yes--it's called the "Start" button (no kidding). There are 2 buttons on the remote that let you skip to the beginning and end of a clip (you guessed it, the other one is called "end"). Works fine for editing clips and reviewing.

LGE approved my refund. Yeahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!1

Just for general information, I'll report that LG Customer Service told me that any previously scheduled timed recording will over-ride and stop any timeshift that's going on when the scheduled start time arrives.

I was really looking forward to this unit at the beginning of the year, but I decided to wait until others had the unit and posted reviews on the forum. After reading this thread for the past month I am sooooooooo glad I kept my $1000 and will spend the money on something else. Definitely will wait for HDTV Tivo or something else. Really disappointed in what I've read and heard from people who own this box. That is too bad. Thought LG would be the leader in HDTV. Oh well.

Steeler,

The machine/human interface is not well thought out on this machine. Starting with the lousy remote and ending up with the terrible fast forward/skip buttons that are wothless. The inability to record HD from cable when the HD is delivered via a special Digital decoder, borders on deceptive advertising. The tuner although quite sensitive, tends to swing wildly and cut out the program if the signal has any multipath. This becomes a real problem when you are hoping to record a show and instead wind up with blips of picture and sound or noting but black screen--all this with no warning. There is a revolving something on the panel but a red lght that blinks would have been more helpful. My old VCR's had a light to warn you if a recording you had programmed in would not be possible for whatever reason.

How do you get the 3410 to go back to the initial setup screen where it asks if you have cable, OTA or both? I just got mine and told it I had OTA only, but now I want to see what cable channels it picks up. I went into setup menu, but all it will let me do is another ez scan of the OTA.

John

Originally posted by jcg
How do you get the 3410 to go back to the initial setup screen where it asks if you have cable, OTA or both? I just got mine and told it I had OTA only, but now I want to see what cable channels it picks up. I went into setup menu, but all it will let me do is another ez scan of the OTA.

John

Go to Guide/Setup/Change System Settings.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Steeler,

The inability to record HD from cable when the HD is delivered via a special Digital decoder, borders on deceptive advertising.

I thought you could record from a digital cable box through the AV1 inputs on the LG. Can you explain what does not work? (I have not tried this.)

I discovered a hidden feature that helps you rearrange your Guide channel order (unless it's explained somewhere and I missed it). When in the channel setup screen, I'd been moving a channel up or down in the list by using the blue or green buttons. You can instead use the number keys to punch in the position number you want the tile to go to. The number appears at the left side of the screen and the enter key moves the tile instantly to the new position.

There is no good reference to the exact position numbers, but at least you can easily move a channel from the bottom to the top by punching in a low number.

Phil -
I did this 'renumbering' for a few channels and it seemed to work. Then I did it for all of my channels, and it somehow messed up the download of the guide. It is a sneaky problem, because you do not notice there is a problem until 8 days later when there is no info for any of your stations.

Since I really do not know which station (could it be stations?) is responsible for the guide, I ended up reseting the box and going back to the old method of moving the stations up. A work-around I may try is to move some of the stations local stations which broadcast channels above 13 to the top of the guide and then renumber them to the digital.

Hyrax,

I'm not talking about remapping channel numbers, just changing the order of the list. I don't see how that could affect the guide.

When in the channel setup screen, highlight any channel logo (not the channel number). If you punch "1" and "enter", that channel will move to the first position in the list. This is better than moving a channel from the bottom to the top of the list by pushing green or blue a zillion times.

****

If you are referring to REMAPPING channel numbers, as in changing analog 2 to digital 2-1, that is something that may cause problems. I just had Comcast cable installed Thursday and connected it to the cable RF of the 3410A. I'll likely have trouble because the local HD cable channels (wihich are NOT available here yet, but are included in the Guide for my zip code) seem to have replaced the OTA HD channels in the Guide.

For instance, CBS HD cable channel 189 exists in my zip code, so CBS OTA 2-1 no longer appears in the Guide. But there is no WGN HD cable channel, so OTA WGN 9-1 remains in the Guide.

This is the case, even though the cable HD's are not available here! So I have remapped the local cable analogs to 2-1, 5-1, etc. OTA's. I have no idea what effect this will have on Guide operation, but I expect problems like you have had.

Some people have reported that their OTA HD's appear in the Guide along with all the cable channels, but I suspect those folks have no cable HD locals in their area.

I also suspect that when you have cable connected, the Guide insists on downloading info from cable only. If so, it will probably fail after my remapping. I can still tune to the OTA's. It'll be interesting to see what happens overnight.

The end result will probably force me to go back to OTA only. It'll be disappointing if the Guide can't handle both OTA HD and cable HD channels at the same time --- and still function properly.

I connected a four-year old Sony DV camcorder and the 3410 said it was an unsupported IEEE device.

I'll bet $10 that when I connect it to my Windows PC, it will be properly recognized.

Does anyone know if LG has a history of firmware upgrades to their other A/V products to add missing compatibility and get rid of original design bugs?

Phil -
Very cool shortcut indeed! Thanks.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Steeler,

The machine/human interface is not well thought out on this machine. Starting with the lousy remote and ending up with the terrible fast forward/skip buttons that are wothless. The inability to record HD from cable when the HD is delivered via a special Digital decoder, borders on deceptive advertising. The tuner although quite sensitive, tends to swing wildly and cut out the program if the signal has any multipath. This becomes a real problem when you are hoping to record a show and instead wind up with blips of picture and sound or noting but black screen--all this with no warning. There is a revolving something on the panel but a red lght that blinks would have been more helpful. My old VCR's had a light to warn you if a recording you had programmed in would not be possible for whatever reason.

Funny, I have had zero problems with mine since day one. Maybe because I am use to Guide Plus, so the interface is nearly second nature to me. I personally love the unit.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Funny, I have had zero problems with mine since day one. Maybe because I am use to Guide Plus, so the interface is nearly second nature to me. I personally love the unit.

My only problems have been audio and they were caused by using a B&K with this STB. MrHifi needs to get a life and move on.

I am also very satisfied with this unit. I can't wait to mate the 3410 with LG's blue-ray recorder.

<I thought you could record from a digital cable box through the AV1 inputs on the LG. Can you explain what does not work? (I have not tried this.)>

You can record from your digital cable box through the AV1/AV2 inputs however it will not be HD even for the cable HD channels. For a machine that is supposed to be capable of recording HD, this is a serious case of bending the truth. Sure you can record the HD feed if your cable box downconverts the 1080i signal to 480i. Seems like a real breach of faith. IMHO LGE should have marketed this machine as a PVR capable of recording OTA SD and HD and Digital SD cable channels. It can also record Cable HD for cable systems where the HD channels are delivered without need for a descrambler box. This

When I hit the TV guide button and the TV guide comes up on the TV the top of the quide is cutoff? Has anyone else seen this? I have a Toshiba 65X81 and am running this into the HD input at 1080i (the only format it accepts as the TV is a few years old). Is this something wrong with the TV or is there a way to adjust it? Thanks.

John

Originally posted by MrHifi
You can record from your digital cable box through the AV1/AV2 inputs however it will not be HD even for the cable HD channels. For a machine that is supposed to be capable of recording HD, this is a serious case of bending the truth. Sure you can record the HD feed if your cable box downconverts the 1080i signal to 480i. Seems like a real breach of faith. IMHO LGE should have marketed this machine as a PVR capable of recording OTA SD and HD and Digital SD cable channels. It can also record Cable HD for cable systems where the HD channels are delivered without need for a descrambler box. This

Everything I have ever seen about this unit says, "Digital Cable QAM Tuner (Unscrambled)". I think I have to agree with "umr", "MrHiFi" has done nothing but complain about one thing or another about this unit from day one.

<"MrHiFi" has done nothing but complain about one thing or another about this unit from day one>


I have complained with good reason. You on the other hand have praised without considering the unit's many shortcomings which are readily apparent from even a cursory review of this thread.

Another question as I play around a bit more with the box. I'm getting a signal strength right in the middle (around the m in normal). I have a CM4228 with 100 ft of cable, and I'm wondering if I need a preamp. Some of the stations have been breaking up, so how much would a good preamp increase the signal strength? I also could cut off about 25 ft of the cable making in about 75ft long. Would that help much or is the preamp a better way to go?

John

I wish there was a simple answer. Unfortunately without the use of a spectrum analyzer, you have to experiment to determine the ideal configuration. I connected various amplifiers, splitters, and pads and found the best setup was to split the down-lead with a passive splitter and feed one line directly to the 3410 and then use the other leg to feed a four port distribution amp to feed the other TV's. Using the shortest possible cable will definitely help. Amplifiers amplify both signal and noise, and they can overload the receiver if their gain is too high. I also installed a rotor to aim the antenna for the best signal strength.

I'm not using any splitter right now as the antenna cable goes direct to the 3410. How much did the signal meter go up on the 3410 when you added an amp? I was thinking of getting a CM-7775 and was hoping this would boost me from the middle of normal at least into the good portion?

John

Originally posted by sr
I wish there was a simple answer. Unfortunately without the use of a spectrum analyzer, you have to experiment to determine the ideal configuration. I connected various amplifiers, splitters, and pads and found the best setup was to split the down-lead with a passive splitter and feed one line directly to the 3410 and then use the other leg to feed a four port distribution amp to feed the other TV's. Using the shortest possible cable will definitely help. Amplifiers amplify both signal and noise, and they can overload the receiver if their gain is too high. I also installed a rotor to aim the antenna for the best signal strength.

Originally posted by jcg
Another question as I play around a bit more with the box. I'm getting a signal strength right in the middle (around the m in normal). I have a CM4228 with 100 ft of cable, and I'm wondering if I need a preamp. Some of the stations have been breaking up, so how much would a good preamp increase the signal strength? I also could cut off about 25 ft of the cable making in about 75ft long. Would that help much or is the preamp a better way to go?

John

I would suspect multi-path more than signal strength. I have several stations with lower strengths than you have and they have no problems. I have also seen other stations with very strong signals have problems until I moved the antenna location to avoid multi-path.

Originally posted by MrHifi
<"MrHiFi" has done nothing but complain about one thing or another about this unit from day one>

I have complained with good reason. You on the other hand have praised without considering the unit's many shortcomings which are readily apparent from even a cursory review of this thread.

Lets see if MrHifi would have read the manual which is available on the LG site like I did before purchasing...

QUOTE]Originally posted by MrHifi
<I thought you could record from a digital cable box through the AV1 inputs on the LG. Can you explain what does not work? (I have not tried this.)>

You can record from your digital cable box through the AV1/AV2 inputs however it will not be HD even for the cable HD channels. For a machine that is supposed to be capable of recording HD, this is a serious case of bending the truth. Sure you can record the HD feed if your cable box downconverts the 1080i signal to 480i. Seems like a real breach of faith. IMHO LGE should have marketed this machine as a PVR capable of recording OTA SD and HD and Digital SD cable channels. It can also record Cable HD for cable systems where the HD channels are delivered without need for a descrambler box. This [/QUOTE]

User Manual pg. 65 (Note: This is the only way to get a HD signal into the set other than firewire)
ATSC-8VSB over Terrestrial or Clear QAM over cable

User Manual pg. 9 (Note: picture clearly shows composite video input only)
AUDIO/VIDEO INPUT 1, 2
Connect audio/video output of an external source (Audio system, TV/Monitor, VCR, Camcorder).

User Manual pg. 23 clearly documents what firewire (1394) devices are supported and they include D-VHS decks and one MV recorder.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Steeler,

The machine/human interface is not well thought out on this machine. Starting with the lousy remote and ending up with the terrible fast forward/skip buttons that are wothless. The inability to record HD from cable when the HD is delivered via a special Digital decoder, borders on deceptive advertising. The tuner although quite sensitive, tends to swing wildly and cut out the program if the signal has any multipath. This becomes a real problem when you are hoping to record a show and instead wind up with blips of picture and sound or noting but black screen--all this with no warning. There is a revolving something on the panel but a red lght that blinks would have been more helpful. My old VCR's had a light to warn you if a recording you had programmed in would not be possible for whatever reason.

Not sure what he was expecting. All HD STB's I have seen have trouble with multi-path. The manual also documents the remote and navigation functionality. It is not exactly what I would like, but it does what is says it does.

Originally posted by MrHifi
In DC tonight my 3410 recorded 3 hours of a cruisline still picture promo with the regular program audio in the background. It was set to record the ABC WJLA-TV Fri night Digital programming. Luckily I also ran my analog VCR and captured the programs that way.

Sounds like operator error or the broacaster moved things around to me.

Originally posted by MrHifi
I'm on my second unit and this one still has the brightness level shift issue through the RGBHV output. It runs very warm. Also, the remote sensor has a very narrow field of view on this unit. I am sending the original unit to LGE as agreed. I have asked the dealer for a return on the replacement unit. There is a problem and it will not work correctly through the RGBHV output. I called LGE's tech support as instructed by LGE's cusstomer service. The fellow who answered told me they had never heard of such a problem and that they could not do anything for me. At this point, all i want is my money back. I am hoping Value Electronics will act reputably. I'll report back here.

Variable brightness is a valid complaint. Appears to be only seen on RGB output. However, I have not had a heat or remote field of view problem.

MrHiFi then gets a refund from LG for brightness problem. Seems like a reasonable response from LG to me.

Originally posted by MrHifi
I have complained with good reason. You on the other hand have praised without considering the unit's many shortcomings which are readily apparent from even a cursory review of this thread.

I have not praised this unit "without considering the unit's many shortcomings". What I have do is understood what this model can and cannot do, and lived with it. I have never expected this unit to be a TiVo. It cannot do all the features and fuctions of a Tivo. But it can do some things a TiVo cannot currently do, and that is record HD. Forgive me if I do have an understanding of how TV Guide On Screen works, and do not air my dirty laundry in a public forum.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
But it can do some things a TiVo cannot currently do, and that is record HD.

For only 4 more days :D

Originally posted by tomr
For only 4 more days :D

....if only I had a view of the D* birds.... :(

How do I tell if I have multipath? I'm on a hill with no obstructions close by, but I am in an area that is hard to get HD. I'm in Pleasanton and am trying to get the Sacramenton HD feeds from about 40 miles away.

Last night I was watching ABC and the 3410 kept locking up on me. The video would freeze on a certain frame, but the audio kept coming through. Has anyone had lockup issues with the 3410? Would this be a symptom of multipath? The only way to get the picture back was to turn off power to the 3410 which is a bit of a pain.

John

Originally posted by umr
I would suspect multi-path more than signal strength. I have several stations with lower strengths than you have and they have no problems. I have also seen other stations with very strong signals have problems until I moved the antenna location to avoid multi-path.

Originally posted by jcg
How do I tell if I have multipath? ...John

I have no idea how you can inexpensively determine if you have a multipath problem.

I must admit I'm a little disappointed. I finally got a pretty good tech support person ("Jay") late last week, though he did not completely solve my problems. I called LG today & found out he had already been transferred. After 30 minutes of being bounced around, I got someone who could only make arrangements to ship another unit. Of course I had to give them a cc #, but they promised they had units available for immediate shipment, so I can at least use the current one (barely) until the replacement arrives 2nd day air.

Apparently tech support is swamped, so they could only say they would "have someone call me". No doubt I'll be somewhere in the car, away from the 3410 if they do call.

Meanwhile, I cannot enter the program guide or even manually set up a recording. I even left it unplugged overnight. When I plugged it back in, it took 5 hours for it to get the time. If I tried to manually set the time, I got a fail message due to scheduled events (there were none scheduled). The only way to cancel these phantom events is to enter the program guide, but it won't let me enter the guide. So I have to unplug the unit to restart the whole "Catch 22" sequence.

If anyone knows how to reset this thing other than unplugging it, I would appreciate it. At least I can access the 10 hours of HD programming, so I can dump everything to the 30k prior to returning this unit.

Jim

Was there something under the "troubleshooting" menu option that allowed resetting?

My experience with the LG customer service people is that they are very friendly but do not return calls. They say they will return a call but it doesn't happen. Make sure you get an LG Reference Number so that you don't have to repeat the same story everytime you call back.

They are at a disadvantage in that the LST-3410a is designed and made in Korea. So, if the question is more difficult that simple use functions, then they either have to consult someone who trains the customer service people, send a message to Korea, or ignore the question.

Anyway, give them about a week. If you haven't heard anything, it is a good idea to call back.

Originally posted by STEELERSRULE
I was really looking forward to this unit at the beginning of the year, but I decided to wait until others had the unit and posted reviews on the forum. After reading this thread for the past month I am sooooooooo glad I kept my $1000 and will spend the money on something else. Definitely will wait for HDTV Tivo or something else. Really disappointed in what I've read and heard from people who own this box. That is too bad. Thought LG would be the leader in HDTV. Oh well.

A few thoughts on recommending the LG. Based on my experience I can recommend the LST-3410a, but only in certain circumstances. Basically if you are looking for a true VCR replacement (using AV inputs/outputs) or TIVO operations, stay away from this box. The shortcomings are too great and I've written about those before. Also stay away if you want to use 1394 devices with the 3410a that were not specifically discussed in the 3410a's owners manual.

However, if you are looking for a Samsung T165 replacement or reliable HD OTA recording, then the LST-3410a is great. If you are looking for an easy way to edit out "things" in your HD recordings then this is a great box. As a short term storage location for final 30000U archive across the 1394 interface, then the LST-3410a works as advertised. Its other strength is the ease of OTA timer programming due to the guide function.

I don't use cable, so I can't comment on that capability.

I guess, in the end what we are all seeing in this thread is that the LG-3410a isn't for every use. Some are very pleased with it, some have returned the LST-3410a, and others (like me) are accepting the shortcomings because the positives outweigh the problem areas.

The HD-TIVO doesn't solve every problem either (like the lack of a 1394 interface), so it may be that both boxes are needed to get closer to that ultimate HD system (whatever that is).

Merton -
Try unplugging it and putting the DEMO pin back in before you plug it back in. Mine seemed to reset after I did that.

Also, tell it you have a new configuration in the setup menu for the Guide. This wipes out the guide data completely. I forget the exact wording of question it asks, but it was pretty clearly worded.

Good luck.

I'd like to second alk3997's assessment of the 3410A and add that in my opinion the only thing that makes this not work as a VCR replacement is the awkward fast forward/skipping functionality. The fast forward has the problem that there a few seconds after you hit play before the audio clicks in. I'm still working on getting the Skip to work for me.

The 3410A does exactly what I hoped it would do, but my expectations were for a box that would allow me to timeshift HD like I do with my VCR.

Hyrax,

Thanks. That did seem to reset it somewhat, at least enough to manually set the clock and erase the phantom scheduled events. However, when I try to enter the guide, it either locks up or will not enter it. It will not allow me to manually set up a timed recording. The time shift still works and fortunately I'm still able to access the program list. I'm dumping the hard drive contents to D-VHS. I wish there was some way to schedule it to dump two 1-hour programs to D-VHS, using one command.

I would think LG's tech support would want to talk to us unwitting "Beta" testers so they could identify the bugs in this product. Unlike "MrHiFi" I still like the 3410A, especially compared to the Samsung 165 I had previously.

I must admit I am feeling a little nervous now that I'm 1/3 of the way into the warranty period. 90 days labor is WAY too short for a $ 1k product. Anyone get a longer or extended warranty for this unit?

Jim

Originally posted by merton
Hyrax,

I must admit I am feeling a little nervous now that I'm 1/3 of the way into the warranty period. 90 days labor is WAY too short for a $ 1k product. Anyone get a longer or extended warranty for this unit?

Jim

I share your concern. The 1st unit I received kept locking up, and I had to do the power off reset, and I finally exchanged it after a couple of weeks. The replacement has been rock solid. Performs as advertised - but with the reported limitations.

However, No lockups at all in about 2 weeks of use, but after the experience with the 1st one I'm still kind of holding my breath.

What kind of lockups were you getting? I may be in the same boat as over the last couple days I've had a number of lockups were the video just freezes, but the audio continues. Only option is to power cycle the 3410 to get it back. I have until next Sat to return my unit for a full refund or I can just get a replacement.

John

Originally posted by BenSanford
I share your concern. The 1st unit I received kept locking up, and I had to do the power off reset, and I finally exchanged it after a couple of weeks. The replacement has been rock solid. Performs as advertised - but with the reported limitations.

However, No lockups at all in about 2 weeks of use, but after the experience with the 1st one I'm still kind of holding my breath.

Well --- the 3410A Guide is certainly interesting. Never a dull moment.

As I reported earlier after connecting to both OTA and cable, the Guide was replacing HD OTA channels with Comcast cable HD digital channel numbers --- which exist in my zip code, but are NOT available in my exact location. So I remapped the analog cable locals to 2-1 OTA, etc. This seemed to work fine for one day, as the digital HD's somehow disappeared from the Guide overnight, the HD OTA's remained, and the analog cable locals reappeared separately.

The next day, my HD OTA's were gone and the HD digital cable channels reappeared. Scheduled programs all remained present, BUT the channel numbers to record were changed to the HD cable numbers --- yes, the ones I DON'T RECEIVE.

Amazing.

The only thing that makes half-way sense is that the the Guide is sometimes downloading info from the OTA feed and sometimes from the cable feed, if that's possible. What good is the capability of remapping channels if the Guide changes them back on its own?

I guess I'll have to go back to OTA only, as the 3410A performed well that way, although the Guide sometimes lost everything. It would rebuild on its own, but all scheduled programs would be lost --- not a good thing if I'm not home.

Do any of you who have spoken with LG have the number or the name of a helpful individual there?

Thanks.

Does anybody have this unit in the Tampa Bay area yet ???
I'm thinking of getting one and wanted to know how it works in this area.

<Do any of you who have spoken with LG have the number or the name of a helpful individual there?>

Linda Mathis was extremely helpful, polite and effective.

Originally posted by Troy LaMont

Here's a few more highlights from the manual regarding D-VHS;

• You can record instantly to the DVHS
• You can archive contents on the HDD to the DVHS using the Program List,
• You can move contents on the DVHS to HDD.
• The HD DVR provides copy protection using DTCP.


Hi there!

Can anyone confirm that you can move content from DVHS tape to the HDD?

Secondly, can you move DTCP/DTheater content to the HDD? This is not essential but could be useful for home theater demo purposes :)

Cheers!
DAve.

I have both cable (analog via set top box Comcast) and OTA connected and for the first week the guide worked perfectly, then one day when I turned it on the guide read that it picked up 3 different line ups for my zip code and none corresponded to my channels. I used the guide to correct all the cable channels, the OTA digitals were correct though so I left them alone. The next day the same message appeared and when I checked the channel numbers the guide incorrectly assigned the channels again overnight. After playing this dog and pony show for several days and ready to make a $999 football out of this thing I tried a different zip code ,in the set up, of neighboring areas and the first one which was the zip code just east of me downloaded the wrong channels again so I tried one to the north and ba-da-bing the right line up except for one ota digital which was listed as my cable's digital station number which I don't get because I don't subscribe to the HD service. I guess this is a Gemstar issue rather than LG hardware but at least I only have one channel which is the local ota ABC digital to re do instead of all of them.
Other than the loud audio pops occasionally when playing back a dvhs tape through the firewire the unit gets me HD/SD and analog NTSC recording/timeshifting in one box. With the new 400GB hdd from hitachi next month or so it should eliminate all timeshifting onto tape, finally.
joe

Originally posted by jlanzy
loud audio pops occasionally when playing back a dvhs tape through the firewire the unit
joe

Joe

What DVHS deck do you have hooked up to your 3410?

Originally posted by Phloyd
Hi there!

Can anyone confirm that you can move content from DVHS tape to the HDD?

Secondly, can you move DTCP/DTheater content to the HDD? This is not essential but could be useful for home theater demo purposes :)

Cheers!
DAve.

Yes. I have moved DVHS from my JVC 30k to and from the 3410A. You cannot move copy protected material to the HDD.

Originally posted by jlanzy
... Other than the loud audio pops occasionally when playing back a dvhs tape through the firewire the unit gets me HD/SD and analog NTSC recording/timeshifting in one box. ...

The loud audio pops may be caused by the combination of your processor and the LG STB. My B&K had fairly frequent pops. An old Technics decoder had dropouts and a Krell Showcase has no problems at all.

Murray,

I have the JVC 30K. I think I'm blessed with this unit, after reading the forum and so many had problems. I've had it for 1.5 years and use it daily for about 2-3hrs for timeshifting and playback, as well as for several DTheater tapes, and so far no problems. I haven't downloaded from 3410 or the reverse yet but so far I'm happy with the combination. I have some timeshifted analog programs copied on the DVHS tapes and playing them back thru the LG at 1080i does not look as good as thru the dvhs component out to my Faroudja scaled to 1360x1024, but still very watchable. Of course the Faroudja was over 3 times the LG and only deinterlaces and scales.
joe

Umr,

I playback the audio from DVHS tapes thru the firewire to optical out to my Lexicon DC2. Has anyone else used this set up thru a Lexicon and gotten these annoying pops? I think I'm going to bypass the 3410 altogether and go optical out DVHS to Lexicon, since I mostly use the DVHS component out video to my scaler rather than thru the firewire. Hey what an idea, then I could record while watching a taped timeshifted program, instead of like tonight, had to stop watching the last 10 minutes of Angel so I could shut off the LG scheduled to record 24 Hours.
joe

jlanzy,

I have not read of anyone using a DC2 in that configuration, but that is the configuration that caused my B&K problems. The audio from the 30k had no such problems. It is also higher quality for D-Theater tapes than the firewire audio.

umr,

looks like I'm shopping for another optical cable.
joe

Originally posted by jlanzy
Murray,

I have the JVC 30K. I think I'm blessed with this unit, after reading the forum and so many had problems. I've had it for 1.5 years and use it daily for about 2-3hrs for timeshifting and playback, as well as for several DTheater tapes, and so far no problems. I haven't downloaded from 3410 or the reverse yet but so far I'm happy with the combination. I have some timeshifted analog programs copied on the DVHS tapes and playing them back thru the LG at 1080i does not look as good as thru the dvhs component out to my Faroudja scaled to 1360x1024, but still very watchable. Of course the Faroudja was over 3 times the LG and only deinterlaces and scales.
joe

Joe

What kind of display do you have?

The 3410 DVI output of a DVHS or D-Theater tape is considerably better than the 30K's component output on my DLP projector.

I bought a refurb 30K and have had very good luck in the 25-40 hours of use to date

Murray,

I have the old fashioned analog CRT, a Sony G70. It only has composite, s-video and RGBHV. The improved video that dvi offers has me itching for an upgrade to digital, but since this projector resolves up to 1600x1200, I want to wait for an affordable, ie sub $15k, 1920x1080 with at least close black levels to my 8" crt, who doesn't? I have a feeling that may be at least 4 years away. Well at least that gives me a savings plan time frame.
joe

Originally posted by jlanzy
Murray,

I have the old fashioned analog CRT, a Sony G70. It only has composite, s-video and RGBHV. The improved video that dvi offers has me itching for an upgrade to digital, but since this projector resolves up to 1600x1200, I want to wait for an affordable, ie sub $15k, 1920x1080 with at least close black levels to my 8" crt, who doesn't? I have a feeling that may be at least 4 years away. Well at least that gives me a savings plan time frame.
joe

Joe

With the rapid advances in micro displays, you may find it will take less than 4 years to get such a PJ for under $15K.

Most people want that same PJ for under $5K.

Originally posted by jcg
What kind of lockups were you getting? I may be in the same boat as over the last couple days I've had a number of lockups were the video just freezes, but the audio continues. Only option is to power cycle the 3410 to get it back. I have until next Sat to return my unit for a full refund or I can just get a replacement.

John

The lockups I got happened under a variety of circumstances. Don't remember them all, but once while I was in Guide edit mode - moving OTA HD channels up from the bottom of the listing. Once or twice during playback - screen video frozen, don't remember about the sound. Once when I had set it to record an hour program it just kept on recording all night until it filled the available disk space. Quite a few other occasions. In each case, as I remember the only button on the remote control that would do anything was power on/off. However even then, the system would power back up without the correct boot up - there would be no "hello" on the display on the front of the unit, etc. and other controls were still non-functional. Only unplugging the unit, for a few seconds would bring it back up, and then the time would be wrong - and generally un-resetable...

Is anybody getting any video glitches and audio dropouts while Time Shifting that are not present in the live stream?

Originally posted by jlanzy
I guess this is a Gemstar issue rather than LG hardware

Yup. All real problems I've had are Guide related. The tuner is great. Compared to the T165, this unit is a pleasure to use. (LG did screw up by allowing the power off code to shut down a timer recording.)

The Gemstar Guide is just not ready for prime time. You never know what it's going to do. It either resets and rebuilds itself, or undoes my channel remapping at random intervals. It has also locked up three times with a blank yellow screen, requiring unplugging the unit.

Of course, Gemstar says you have to talk to the DVR manufacturer about Guide problems. LG seems to have done a pretty good job with the hardware. I wonder what they think of Gemstar. Did they have any other choices? I'll bet most of their support calls are due to Guide problems.

Originally posted by mkerdman
Is anybody getting any video glitches and audio dropouts while Time Shifting that are not present in the live stream?

No. This was a constant problem with the T165, but not with the 3410A.

I just talked to LG. They have a firmware upgrade if you STB picture is freezing. Mine has started to do strange things.

- Powers up no picture. Shows channel though with no signal. Front display show time and reserved, but no info on hard drive. Unplugging unit is the only solution.

- Guide is not accessible. Powering down does not work. Guide will mysteriously work later.

- Scheduled recordings that require guide data are frequently not firing off.

LG is going to exchange my unit, but I suspect this is not hardware related. I am guessing the Guide data is getting corrupted and the unit does not handle the errors properly. Mine started doing these things after a power failure. The unit was off at the time and I have it on a surge suppressor. Maybe it was downloading guide data. No other devices were affected.

Mine has also just started hanging up. When I turn it on most of the time it never gets past "Hello". The few times it has I can see the guide but there is no response from any of the front panel or remote buttons. It worked perfectly for the first 3 weeks.

Gues it's time to give LG a call.

-Skip

Originally posted by jcg
How do I tell if I have multipath?

The easiest way is to look at an analogue NTSC signal coming from the same transmitter. If there is a strong signal with lot of ghosting, you have a multipath problem.

Witha digital signal you won't see ghosting, but the ghosts cause interference with the digital reception that can cause it to decode incorrectly.

Cheers!
DAve.

Guys, I had the same problem that my 3410 would lock up, no guide and so forth. It happened for the first time last weekend. I called v/e thinking that the unit needs replacing and if they knew if there was hard reset. What LG has told them is to unplug the unit for 10-12 hours. I did that and now everything is working like it is suppose to. I hope it stays that way.

Originally posted by CKNA
What LG has told them is to unplug the unit for 10-12 hours. I did that and now everything is working like it is suppose to. I hope it stays that way.

To me this sounds like a work-around to a problem that I'm not sure they have acknowledged. I'm not sure that I'm comfortable with this as a long term "solution."

I'm on my 2nd unit, which up to now seems to be solid. However, I plan to keep notes on any hangups I have for the next 45 days of my warantee period, and push for a real solution before the warantee expires if the lockup problems appear on this unit.

How do you tell what version firmware you have on the 3410A? Is the only way to upgrade firmware to send in the unit? I have until Sat to return mine for a full refund, so it's probably easier to do that and tell the store to call me once they get updated units back (then I can go buy a "new" one).

John

Originally posted by umr
I just talked to LG. They have a firmware upgrade if you STB picture is freezing. Mine has started to do strange things.

- Powers up no picture. Shows channel though with no signal. Front display show time and reserved, but no info on hard drive. Unplugging unit is the only solution.

- Guide is not accessible. Powering down does not work. Guide will mysteriously work later.

- Scheduled recordings that require guide data are frequently not firing off.

LG is going to exchange my unit, but I suspect this is not hardware related. I am guessing the Guide data is getting corrupted and the unit does not handle the errors properly. Mine started doing these things after a power failure. The unit was off at the time and I have it on a surge suppressor. Maybe it was downloading guide data. No other devices were affected.

The version information is availabe in the menu. I believe you look at the last item under troubleshooting and press the right arrow or select. Your plan sounds fool proof to me.

OK, thanks. My version info is SW=MP1.12, HW=10.4 & Date=Feb 03, 2004.

I've been waiting for our store to get these in and they just got them last week, so it seem odd that my date on the unit is more than 6 weeks prior to them getting the unit. Maybe I got an old version, but wondering if others have newer versions that this?

John

Originally posted by umr
The version information is availabe in the menu. I believe you look at the last item under troubleshooting and press the right arrow or select. Your plan sounds fool proof to me.

I also am starting to get some of the lock-up problems. I call them the "long, slow, 'good-bye' ".

I'm going to observe and document my problems a little further before . calling LG. This might give them a little more time to come up with a fix.

I'm really wondering if this has anything to do with the "twisted" boxes that rock on a flat table. I had to loosen all the box screws and let the set rest on all fours and retighten the screws. I can't imagine the boxes being assembled crookedly but I can imagine a cargo container taking a dive somewhere between Korea and here.

Is anyone having problems with a box that was true when delivered?

Does anyone HAVE a box that was true when delivered?

Are the replacement boxes true?

Lew

Originally posted by lewlew
...Does anyone HAVE a box that was true when delivered?
...

Mine is.

Originally posted by Skipm
Mine has also just started hanging up. When I turn it on most of the time it never gets past "Hello". The few times it has I can see the guide but there is no response from any of the front panel or remote buttons. It worked perfectly for the first 3 weeks.
-Skip

Had mine for only 2 weeks when it acted the same way.
I received my replacement last night and it works fine now.
The SN# was that same so I guess that they just upgraded the
software part. My old unit would not power up unless you power
on and off 15-20 times. The last time it came up it said that there was
no harddrive in the unit.

But i have a question on the timeshift on the new unit it
shows the starting time and ending time of 1 hour it on each end of the
time line 4:07------------------------------5:07 example. It will
record over that 1 hour and you can move back to the start of
a timeshift recorded for more then 1 hour. But it will only store the last
30 minutes of the program once you end timeshift.

My old software did not have this start time and end time showing and
it would show all the programed record as 1 timeline. And I think
that it would save the whole timeshift record program, example if I
timeshift 2.5 hours that the program list would be 2.5 not the 30 minutes now.

Is it just me or has anyone work different?

Also turn off the unit for 10-12 hours Thats nuts............
What is LG thinking... Love this unit I just hope it continues
to work without a problem.

Just got unit in today from v/e, only $899 there now. Got it shipped overnight to be able to play with it this weekend when the NCAA's are on.
I will be able to have a good camparison with picture quality compared to Brighthouse. Hopefully I can get it up and running tonight so I can tape ER while I'm watching W/O A Trace. :)

Originally posted by mstanl
Had mine for only 2 weeks when it acted the same way.
I received my replacement last night and it works fine now.
The SN# was that same so I guess that they just upgraded the
software part. My old unit would not power up unless you power
on and off 15-20 times. The last time it came up it said that there was
no harddrive in the unit.

But i have a question on the timeshift on the new unit it
shows the starting time and ending time of 1 hour it on each end of the
time line 4:07------------------------------5:07 example. It will
record over that 1 hour and you can move back to the start of
a timeshift recorded for more then 1 hour. But it will only store the last
30 minutes of the program once you end timeshift.

My old software did not have this start time and end time showing and
it would show all the programed record as 1 timeline. And I think
that it would save the whole timeshift record program, example if I
timeshift 2.5 hours that the program list would be 2.5 not the 30 minutes now.

Is it just me or has anyone work different?

Also turn off the unit for 10-12 hours Thats nuts............
What is LG thinking... Love this unit I just hope it continues
to work without a problem.

Please post your firmware revision, so we can see if it is different.

How do we check to see what firmware we have ?

JFerg,

Good to hear from you again.

Can you tell us what 1.14 is designed to fix or improve?

tia

Lew

Received an exchange unit from LG two weeks ago. Version Info:
S/W: MP1.12
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 7.1.20
Date: 05:32AM Feb.03,2004

I exchanged my original 3410a because I thought the unit had poor OTA reception. It turned out that I had aimed my antenna to a reflection and there was nothing wrong with my original unit. This new unit works equally well.

Originally posted by sr
Received an exchange unit from LG two weeks ago. Version Info:
S/W: MP1.12
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 7.1.20
Date: 05:32AM Feb.03,2004
.


I have the same Version Info on a unit bougth 2 weeks ago.

BTW, a very close reading of the 3410 manual states that the unit is compatible with 3 Sony MicroDV camcorders, not MiniDV camcorders, like my Sony TR100.

Originally posted by sr
Received an exchange unit from LG two weeks ago. Version Info:
S/W: MP1.12
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 7.1.20
Date: 05:32AM Feb.03,2004
...

That is the same version I received on my Feb. 17th unit.

So it looks like I have the same verison (1.12 / 10.4) as everyone else and some folks aren't having any lockup problems. You stated that LG says there is a new version of FW for lockup problems, but did they tell you the rev? Is it something later than 1.12 as I guess this is a random problem with certain units like mine?

John

Originally posted by umr
That is the same version I received on my Feb. 17th unit.

Originally posted by jcg
...You stated that LG says there is a new version of FW for lockup problems, but did they tell you the rev?....

No.

JFerg posted new firmware version was 1.14 then quickly pulled his post.
He should know, but then again it was 4/1.

Not sure who that is so why should he know? Does he work for LG?

John

Originally posted by lewlew
JFerg posted new firmware version was 1.14 then quickly pulled his post.
He should know, but then again it was 4/1.

We need to find out a way that us techies/geeks can upgrade the firmware via PC download--even if it requires some special cable. Sending my box back to LG is not high on my wish list.

FWIW, LGE replaced the person in charge of granting refunds. A week after I was told the mailing coupons were on theie way, I called today and learned that the administrative person who granted my refund was no longer there. They offered to bring it to the new person for consideration. Another case of --if you don't call them you're left hanging--. Hope the new person accepts the original person's recommendation/decision.

Lew [/B][/QUOTE]

"I'm really wondering if this has anything to do with the "twisted" boxes that rock on a flat table. I had to loosen all the box screws and let the set rest on all fours and retighten the screws. I can't imagine the boxes being assembled crookedly but I can imagine a cargo container taking a dive somewhere between Korea and here.

Is anyone having problems with a box that was true when delivered?

Does anyone HAVE a box that was true when delivered?

Are the replacement boxes true?"



I have two 3410s and they both sit slightly uneven on a flat serface, however, they both work fine.

Now a Lockup on replacement box

Yesterday, I had scheduled a recording through the guide settings - to record a 1 hour show off cable throught the AV 1 input. I looked in during the show, and noted that recording was proceeding - fine. I checked back at the end of the recording, and found that the box had frozen up. The time on the front of the box had stopped incrementing - it still showed 4:48 when it was now after 5. Not a good sign. I was unable to manually stop the recording - either by the remote control or the buttons on the front - all of which failed to do anything, except for the power off button, but that didn't restore the unit to normal.

Damn, finally unplugged the unit to get it back to responding. Of course this meant that the recorded show wasn't saved to the hard disk since it updates the directory of what's on the disk after the recording ends (if it ends normally).

This is the first lock-up I've had on this unit in about 3 week's usage, but it's also very frustrating. This is a replacement for the 1st unit I had received which locked up every day or so. If this happens much more, I'm also going to be pushing for a REAL fix, or will be pushing for a refund. I don't want to have this unit with unresolved problems after the short 90 day warantee expires.

My box is working great !! Taped NCAA BB this weekend, awesome PQ & sound. just like being there in San Antonio. Taped Law & Order last night , awesome. No complaints with the way the unit FF & RW. Actually I think that works great. Even Timeshifting works great. Tuner is excellent . receiving all channels in Tampa Bay area using the Terk combined with the fantastic Silver Sensor in the attic. Can't wait to tape Masters this week while I'm playing on the beach.

Received an exchange unit from LG one weeks ago. Version Info:
S/W: MP1.12
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 7.1.20
Date: 05:32AM Feb.03,2004


So far so good, No power up problems, no TV guide problems and so
far has recorded each day this last week.

Has anybody gotten the LG 3410 to recognize and playback from the FireWire output of a PC with either a MyHD or Fusion card installed as a D-VHS device.

I just returned mine and the salesperson said he talked with LG about this new FW (rev 1.14) and was told units will start shipping with it shortly. He expects about 3-4 weeks before his store gets units in with that FW, and then I'll give it another shot. If anyone gets a new unit with 1.14 FW please post.

John

Originally posted by mstanl
Received an exchange unit from LG one weeks ago. Version Info:
S/W: MP1.12
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 7.1.20
Date: 05:32AM Feb.03,2004


So far so good, No power up problems, no TV guide problems and so
far has recorded each day this last week.

Originally posted by jcg
I just returned mine and the salesperson said he talked with LG about this new FW (rev 1.14) and was told units will start shipping with it shortly. He expects about 3-4 weeks before his store gets units in with that FW, and then I'll give it another shot. If anyone gets a new unit with 1.14 FW please post.

John

John

Do you, or does anyone else, know what's new/fixed in the new FW Rev. 1.14?

Also, who do you call at LG for FW updates to boxes already in the field, and, do they stop offering such updates after the 90 day "warranty" period?

Has anyone yet successfully swapped out the hard drive in the 3410?

Separately, has anyone taken the hard drive with HD recordings present out of a 3410 and connected it to a PC or Linux computer to determine how playable/readable the transport streams are under Windows and/or Linux?

Are there multiple files per program in specific individual chunk sizes, or, just one big file written per recorded program?

What is the file format of the HD transport streams?

I read somewhere that the FW is able to handle up to 2TB in HDD space- does anyone know if that's true?

the 2TB number comes from a 32bit limitation. I had to split my home raid server into 2 arrays to get around the 2TB limit in Windows. I then "spanned" the arrays to get one virtual 3.7 TB server. You can do something similar in Linux.

I have heard of several people swapping out the drives without any issues - it will reformat it and make it available. Check some of the other threads in this forum.

I have not heard anyone connecting the old drive to a PC. I would be surprised if it was formatted in a way that could be read by an average machine. From my replayTV hacking days, someone will need to come up with a utility to rip the streams from drive.

Originally posted by orbitzboy
the 2TB number comes from a 32bit limitation. I had to split my home raid server into 2 arrays to get around the 2TB limit in Windows. I then "spanned" the arrays to get one virtual 3.7 TB server. You can do something similar in Linux.

I have not heard anyone connecting the old drive to a PC. I would be surprised if it was formatted in a way that could be read by an average machine. From my replayTV hacking days, someone will need to come up with a utility to rip the streams from drive.

orbitzboy

I am curious to have someone confirm my suspicion that the OS is Linux and the file format follows accordingly.

If I am right about Linux, I still do not know enough to speculate as to whether one of the Linux programs allows it's files to be seen and read by a networked Windows PC.

mine has now been freezing up this evening and twice last night. It has version 1.12 in it.

There is a post buried somewhere about the hd230 and how someone managed to get a directory and read the files off the hard drive.

THEN several people had mentioned software to work with the hard drive contents, which basically was said to be a raw dump of the transport stream to the hard drive.


I don't remember reading anything more about it, so I too would be interested in hearing what is possible.

Originally posted by ZZtop
There is a post buried somewhere about the hd230 and how someone managed to get a directory and read the files off the hard drive.

THEN several people had mentioned software to work with the hard drive contents, which basically was said to be a raw dump of the transport stream to the hard drive.


I don't remember reading anything more about it, so I too would be interested in hearing what is possible.


ZZtop

We need to test and document some off-label possibilities with the 3410.

What threard holds the HD230 info?

I am wondering if you had several hard drives that were installed in the 3410 and had been formatted and had data recorded on them, would they then becoem interchangable with external trays an IDE cable to power up ready to play the movies archived on them.

How many 3410 ownwers are also JVC 30K & 169Time-AVX-1 owners as well?

Can any one tell me why the recorded shows I have set sometimes
just show ??/?? for the next date to run. Do I need to reset them?

Thanks

If I remember correctly, the operating system and/or file format in the HD230 was Linux. I am trying to remember what I read, and I believe it was that the poster got a directory off the HD230 hard and it was in Linux.

Speaking of fusion and MyHD, does anyone have an opinion that one is better than the other quality-wise. Now that the 8.5gb dvd drives are about to be releases, recording 2 hrs of HDTV to a playable DVD, in HD res, is about to become a reality in as far the disc capacity at least.

Originally posted by ZZtop
If I remember correctly, the operating system and/or file format in the HD230 was Linux. I am trying to remember what I read, and I believe it was that the poster got a directory off the HD230 hard and it was in Linux.

Speaking of fusion and MyHD, does anyone have an opinion that one is better than the other quality-wise. Now that the 8.5gb dvd drives are about to be releases, recording 2 hrs of HDTV to a playable DVD, in HD res, is about to become a reality in as far the disc capacity at least.

ZZtop

MyHD is a HW decoder based device with on-board HW decoding, while Fusion is a SW based device an relies on your video card and software.

In the main your results with MyHD will always be better.

Two hours of 1080i HD will be 8.5GB X 2= 17GB, so, a dual layer 8.5GB DVD will yield 1 hour of HD at 1080i.

FYI---

169Time and JVC 30K and LG LST-3410 DVR = Digital “Glitch-Free” FireWire & DVI Playback w/ frame-accurate editing and “trick-play”

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=388506

So the possibility of storing an hour of true HD content on a dvd looks like it is about to become a reality.:D

Originally posted by mstanl
Can any one tell me why the recorded shows I have set sometimes
just show ??/?? for the next date to run. Do I need to reset them?

Thanks

Apparently, this happens if the same show is not on at the same time and day of the following week. I don't know if the setting is automatically renewed the week after that, or whenever the same show reappears in the same time slot.

Originally posted by ZZtop
So the possibility of storing an hour of true HD content on a dvd looks like it is about to become a reality.:D

ZZtop

No.

It will only hold 1 hour.

Two hours of 1080i HD will be 8.5GB X 2= 17GB, so, a dual layer 8.5GB DVD will yield 1 hour of HD at 1080i.

You will have to wait for HD-DVD or Blu-Ray DVD.

The 8.5gb dual layer dvd recorders have been released, so 1 hour of HD content storage should be possible.

I started a thread on these new dvd dual layer recorders in the HDTV recorder section. They are NOT bluray but do hold 8.5gb per blank disc.

Originally posted by ZZtop
The 8.5gb dual layer dvd recorders have been released, so 1 hour of HD content storage should be possible.

I started a thread on these new dvd dual layer recorders in the HDTV recorder section. They are NOT bluray but do hold 8.5gb per blank disc.

ZZtop

Sorry, I dyslexically misread your post to say two hours, as in a feature film.

Yes, 1 hour is on deck for DVD.

Ok, just a quick question on the 3410a. I just want something to record OTA while I watch other HD programs on cable and to tape Leno at night.
Everything will be OTA recordings so do you think the 3410a will be ok for this? Any problems associated with OTA and this unit is what I'm asking.
I plan on using the DVI output to a Pioneer Elite 630HD.
Also have these started showing up in any big chains yet and where on line is the best spot.
Thanks
Jim

Supposedly the lockup issues like some of us are having is fixed with the new FW, that that is still to be verified as no one has 1.14 yet.

John

Originally posted by mkerdman
John

Do you, or does anyone else, know what's new/fixed in the new FW Rev. 1.14?

Also, who do you call at LG for FW updates to boxes already in the field, and, do they stop offering such updates after the 90 day "warranty" period?

My 3410A has arrived and so far I am very impressed. It all seems to run well and pulls in a huge number of DTV channels here in the SF Bay Area.

I will be tinkering with it more over the next few days.

Firmware is 1.12.

Cheers!
DAve.

LST-3410a Lockup
Have had my LST-3410a for two weeks and am now experiencing the lockups discussed here and in other threads. Email response from LG has been great. Upon providing sn, copy of invoice and other info they will be providing shipping labels for this unit to be upgraded. Their email indicated the upgrade would take 24 hours. Looks like they pickup shipping cost both ways also. Repair center is in Huntsville, AL.

I like the unit and hope this fixes the problem. So far LG has been great.

Thought you all should know.

Mike

<they will be providing shipping labels for this unit to be upgraded.>

I've been waiting two weeks for shipping labels. The lady says they are backed up.

I just got one delivered, shipped Wed late, arrived today(Fri of same week, regular UPS ground, shipping was 10$ or so, and the unit was 809$ from ********************* , AND they provided me with a tracking number via email.

So far so good, I would do business with them again and its the least expensive price so far I know of for these units.

Best Buy supposedly had them for 799$, BUT it seems to only in a handful of stores on the west coast and you will pay tax. ********************* gives AVS form members a 10% discount. Its my first time doing business with this vendor and it went off with a hitch. I like that!

So this is the better deal.

Question: IT looks like I need to turn around and ship it back for a new firmware update to LG?

How do I check the firmware version, I just plugged the unit in, but have not found that in the manual or on-screen yet.:D

Now may I need to sell my Zenith HDR230 HDTV recorder and the HDSAT-520, which does direct tv sat AND HDTV though you don't need to subscribe to d* to use it for that. Is there much of a market for these guys?

Originally posted by umr
Yes. I have moved DVHS from my JVC 30k to and from the 3410A. You cannot move copy protected material to the HDD.

It seems mkerdman can. The 3410 seems appealing to me because it's the closest thing Ive seen to a high defintion ReplayTV + edting features, before archiving to DVHS or dvd recorders. Mkerdman, have you done any editing or archiving from analog cable with this? If so, I may use this along side my ReplayTV for local high defintion broadcasts and recording of some SD cable recordings that I may want to keep.

Originally posted by En Sabur Nur
It seems mkerdman can. The 3410 seems appealing to me because it's the closest thing Ive seen to a high defintion ReplayTV + edting features, before archiving to DVHS or dvd recorders. Mkerdman, have you done any editing or archiving from analog cable with this? If so, I may use this along side my ReplayTV for local high defintion broadcasts and recording of some SD cable recordings that I may want to keep.

You can move 169Time and OTA, but, not D-Theater or other copy protected rcordings to the 3410 HDD.

Thank you. I think I'll try the 3410.

I have also moved to the 3410 HDD and viewed over it's DVI output, tapes made on a Panasonic HD1000 from a Dish 5000-HD Mod.

which online store has a stock of LG LST 3410a?

samgt

Anyone notice that the LG records the TS stream as encoded rather than D-VHS having a fixed bit-rate? My 78 minute "Better off Dead" recording from HBO is 9.98GB in size, while my 97 minute recording of "Ronin" from Showtime is 7.96GB in size?

Originally posted by bwiklem
Anyone notice that the LG records the TS stream as encoded rather than D-VHS having a fixed bit-rate? My 78 minute "Better off Dead" recording from HBO is 9.98GB in size, while my 97 minute recording of "Ronin" from Showtime is 7.96GB in size?

bwiklem

I assume you have a 169Time setup and recorded to DVHS first, and then to the LG 3410- is that correct?

I have no 169time set up at all. I used to, but it was so unreliable (I had a first gen unit) I got rid of it. That's just two examples. In another, I recorded 2 hours of NBC HD, and that showed up as ~ 12.6GB

The two movie examples (I have more) were recorded from D-VHS though

Originally posted by bwiklem
I have no 169time set up at all. I used to, but it was so unreliable (I had a first gen unit) I got rid of it. That's just two examples. In another, I recorded 2 hours of NBC HD, and that showed up as ~ 12.6GB

The two movie examples (I have more) were recorded from D-VHS though

bwiklem

How did you initialy record the 78 minute "Better off Dead" recording from HBO and the 97 minute recording of "Ronin" from Showtime, on DVHS from 169Time, Dish 500-HD Mod. or, HD digital cable?

Originally posted by ZZtop

Question: IT looks like I need to turn around and ship it back for a new firmware update to LG?

How do I check the firmware version, I just plugged the unit in, but have not found that in the manual or on-screen yet.:D



ZZ:

Select Menu/Setup/Troubleshooting, then scroll down for version info. FWIW, I just received my replacement 3410 from LG about 10 days ago. It is version 1.12 and seems to be working properly.

My Guide channel lineup is all screwed up as there is no selection which matches my cable provider, BellSouth Entertainment. I'm a little afraid to start remapping my channels, as that is when my first unit went bonkers. I don't know if that caused it, but no one at LG could help me. They did promptly send a new unit via Airborne, with return labels. I'm still just setting up recordings manually, which is not that difficult.

I think alot of us are a little nervous now that the labor portions of our warranties are half over. Surely LG will demonstrate goodwill on this matter.....

Jim

I will be getting a new unit from LG shipped tomorrow via Airborne. They tell me this unit will have the latest and greatest FW in it (1.14) we will see . Hopefully it will work great and not have anymore problems.

Originally posted by merton
ZZ:

Select Menu/Setup/Troubleshooting, then scroll down for version info. FWIW, I just received my replacement 3410 from LG about 10 days ago. It is version 1.12 and seems to be working properly.

My Guide channel lineup is all screwed up as there is no selection which matches my cable provider, BellSouth Entertainment. I'm a little afraid to start remapping my channels, as that is when my first unit went bonkers. I don't know if that caused it, but no one at LG could help me. They did promptly send a new unit via Airborne, with return labels. I'm still just setting up recordings manually, which is not that difficult.

I think alot of us are a little nervous now that the labor portions of our warranties are half over. Surely LG will demonstrate goodwill on this matter.....

Jim

Interesting that people are getting repaired units that still have firmware 1.12. This seems to mean that the problems are not related to the firmware version, but have some other cause.

I'm waiting for the reports from folks who get the new firmware. Some version changes solve old troubles and create new ones.

I don't know what to do, if anything. My unit works GREAT for a week or so, then will lose all Guide info. Sometimes it retains the zip code and other settings. Last time it did not. However, the EZ Setup memorized channels are always retained. Whenever I decide to call LG, the darn thing reads my mind an behaves properly.

Once in a while, odd things will happen. Last week I happened to be observing the unit as it turned on for a timer recording. I was also viewing the LG video output on my TV. The LG tuned to the proper channel, the picture was perfect, then a message came up about being unable to record because of no signal, and the recording was killed --- even though I was looking at a solid picture on a strong channel. That's weird.

I guess I should call LG and at least get on record now, even if I don't intend to send the unit in immediately.

Originally posted by bwiklem
Anyone notice that the LG records the TS stream as encoded rather than D-VHS having a fixed bit-rate? My 78 minute "Better off Dead" recording from HBO is 9.98GB in size, while my 97 minute recording of "Ronin" from Showtime is 7.96GB in size?

This is how it suppose to be. It strips null data. Too bad it does not do this when feeding TS stream to firewire when watching, like Samsung 165 which always strips null data.

Originally posted by CKNA
It strips null data. Too bad it does not do this when feeding TS stream to firewire when watching, like Samsung 165 which always strips null data.

CKNA

What circumstance and benefit are you referring to when you say "It strips null data. Too bad it does not do this when feeding TS stream to firewire when watching"?

Originally posted by PhillyC
Interesting that people are getting repaired units that still have firmware 1.12. This seems to mean that the problems are not related to the firmware version, but have some other cause.

I'm waiting for the reports from folks who get the new firmware. Some version changes solve old troubles and create new ones.

I don't know what to do, if anything. ...

I guess I should call LG and at least get on record now, even if I don't intend to send the unit in immediately.

I don't know what the problems - firmware or something else. I'm on my 2nd unit. I sent the 1st one back because it kept locking up. I got a replacement (with the same 1.12 firmware version), and it worked as it should for a couple of weeks, and then it started locking up almost daily. A couple of times I was watching TV when it happened, so I can rule out power surges or something external like that. The unit was recording, near the end of a 1 hour show, and the clock on the front stopped updating - the unit just kept on recording, but since it had frozen, and the only way to get it back into operation was the power off.

I'm almost 2 months into the 90 day warantee. I plan to call LG, but want to go on record that if this problem can't be really fixed - then I'm lining up for a refund. Since these problems are intermittent, it's likely difficult to trace down. I don't expect that they are going to operate one of these units on a test bench for 24 hours just to see if the problem is really fixed.

Hope that they have found what is likely a design problem and fixed that - not just sending the boxes with these intermittent problems back to other people without really fixing anything.

Originally posted by BenSanford
I don't know what the problems - firmware or something else. I'm on my 2nd unit. I sent the 1st one back because it kept locking up. I got a replacement (with the same 1.12 firmware version), and it worked as it should for a couple of weeks, and then it started locking up almost daily. A couple of times I was watching TV when it happened, so I can rule out power surges or something external like that. The unit was recording, near the end of a 1 hour show, and the clock on the front stopped updating - the unit just kept on recording, but since it had frozen, and the only way to get it back into operation was the power off.

I'm almost 2 months into the 90 day warantee. I plan to call LG, but want to go on record that if this problem can't be really fixed - then I'm lining up for a refund. Since these problems are intermittent, it's likely difficult to trace down. I don't expect that they are going to operate one of these units on a test bench for 24 hours just to see if the problem is really fixed.

Hope that they have found what is likely a design problem and fixed that - not just sending the boxes with these intermittent problems back to other people without really fixing anything.

Try blowing a fan on the unit. Yes, the 3410A is very temperature sensitive. Once it fails because of a thermal overload, it keeps on failing. Try using a big fan. My first unit that smelled of phenolic worked perfectly if I turned an 18" fan on it on high. At least that might keep you going until you get a replacement.

Originally posted by MrHifi
<they will be providing shipping labels for this unit to be upgraded.>

I've been waiting two weeks for shipping labels. The lady says they are backed up.

Yes same problem here. It took LG about 2 weeks to send me the shipping label. They did return a new unit faster then that once they received my return.

Perhaps it is inappropriate, but are there any other HD PVR's on the horizon?

Originally posted by MrHifi
Perhaps it is inappropriate, but are there any other HD PVR's on the horizon?

Two Sony models in the fall, here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=371685

They'll likely be pretty good, but unfortunately there is no mention of firewire.

The more I think about it, I am pretty sure I saw these units on display at CES. I definitely saw some CableCard boxes at the Sony "booth" near the BDROM players.

I have a very vague recollection of seeing firewire ports on the back of the Sony units - it is the sort of thing I always look for. I wouldn't bet my life on it though - I didn't make any notes at the time as I had no interest in Cable at that stage.

Now that it seems clear that HD TiVo will likely never have 1394, cable is becoming a lot more interesting to me...

Cheers!
DAve.

My newly replaced unit will be delivered tomorrow, They say it has the latest & Greatest FW in it, we'll see. Just in time to tape all the thursday night shows. By the way may have a temp fix on the units locking up, use it as a frisbie. No really, I was trying to record frazier and a few other shows last night, and of course the box was locking up. Did many power off (unplug) resets until the unit would finally start to record.
Noticed that the clock was running during Frazier, then during Law and Order. Watched some of the recorded masters lastnight, also Jay Leno last night with Rebbecca Hotty Stamos and Phil Mickleson, gave the unit a full work out and it never froze. So decided to keep it on all night. It was working allright this morning also, will check when i get home tonight.
So I guess it works great if you never shutt the box off. This is the longest stretch it has ever run without freezing up though. Will never get any TV guide info though this way.

I only mention this as a data point and not to jinx myself, but, my 3410 with FW 1.12 has always worked, never locked up, and, I get EPG data nightly.

This message will now self-destruct.

I ordered the Samsung 165 today.
Think I should have ordered the LG 3410!!!

I know the cost is much higher.

I have Cox HD Digital cable in Tulsa, OK using a Motorola 6200 cable box.
Will the 3410 replace that?

I have a JVC 4000 DVHS.
Will it work with that?

I am using a Sony HD300 now for OTA.
Is it better than that?

Is the HD recording bit for bit?
Better than the Samsung?

Thanks!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Rick7777
I am using a Sony HD300 now for OTA.
Is it better than that?

Same tuner in both units.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Same tuner in both units.

I do not know the tuner part numbers specifically, but, I can tell you that the on-screen results when comparing the DVI output of the LG 3410 and the Samsung T165 are not at all the same.

The LG 3410 produces a markedly superior image over DVI than any other tuner or STB I have ever seen, including the Samsung T165.

This may be the video portion of the 3410 more so than the tuner.

But it matters little, as what is put up on the screen is all that is important.

It's the LG 3410 PQ, by a landslide.

That part of the question was about the Sony HD300 vs 3410

Originally posted by KornerKlub
That part of the question was about the Sony HD300 vs 3410

KornerKlub

In that case the Sony HD300 must be a great TV!

Mea culpa.

EDIT: Geez, someone should have told me that the Sony’s SAT-HD300 is a DirecTV® & ATSC High Definition Satellite Receiver- and not an HDTV

Mea culpa...again

Just added a hard drive cooling kit (large heat sink and two small fans) to my 3410a. I added a 250GB HD. Hope this addresses the heat issue. I notice as the unit gets very warm, more prone to digital blocking/breaking up of the image.

My unit has only managed to record half the scheduled recording in the past week. At least one was my fault (I left the recorder on, and it could not get guide data), and the others...well, the unit was off, but it did not record. After the most recent failure, last night, I turned it on to watch the show, and I had no listings. After the previous failures, I had listings, but I didn't check until at least a day later.

I'll pull the FW version, and open a ticket with LG.

Between the design limitations and poor reliability, my loathing of this machine is only getting deeper.

--Mike

Llamas,

Be prepared to wait for your replacement from LG. Mine has been on order for about 3 weeks.

My second 3410 has been returned for a refund but I find it ironic that so many owners are reporting the problems I presented in February and March. I was lambasted as being against the unit from the get go. Perhaps if others had listened and observed rather than decried my observations, LGE might have been inclined to provide realistic improvements which address the common failures and shortcomings.

Art, I've been unhappy for just as long. I'd have returned the unit after the first week, had it not been for the restocking fee. Now, I wish I had returned it, and taken the $150 hit (or waited, and purchased locally).

--Mike

Originally posted by MrHifi
Mine second 3410 has been returned for a refund but I find it ironic that so many owners are reporting the problems I presented in February and March. I was lambasted as being against the unit from the get go. Perhaps if others had listened and observed rather than decried my observations, LGE might have been inclined to provide realistic improvements which address the common failures and shortcomings.

I agree. While many were happy with the tuner and some capabilities, some where not considering the other limitations of what could/should have been a great product.

While I didn't have the brightness variation problem you had, I was frustrated by lockup problems and several other poor design choices that LG made. I understood the expected limitations with scrambled cable, but hadn't expected several other limitations that weren't clearly identified.

Inabiliity to do timed recording off AV2 input.
Inability to do timed recordings off AV1 input except through use of the guide.
Inability to select some broadcast SD channels in Guide if the unit is told that cable is available, etc.

I am saddened that this unit has as many technical issues as it does. I really loved its ability to capture digital feeds and the picture quality, when it was working, was outstanding. Besides locking up indiscriminantly, it is sensitive to temperature changes and of course my brightness variation problem. Sadly, the Sony units that should be out late this year do not incorporate a VGA DB15 RGBHV output.

Originally posted by MrHifi
I am saddened that this unit has as many technical issues as it does. I really loved its ability to capture digital feeds and the picture quality, when it was working, was outstanding. Besides locking up indiscriminantly, it is sensitive to temperature changes and of course my brightness variation problem. Sadly, the Sony units that should be out late this year do not incorporate a VGA DB15 RGBHV output.

I have never missed an EPG overnight download, or a scheduled recording, and, for me, the digital picture quality over DVI plus the easy HDD upgradability offsets the units design limitations and makes the 3410 worth the price of admission.

I was going to get a new unit as soon as Value Electronics get some more in but you guys are scaring me. I was only wanting a unit to record OTA HD programs that come on while I'm gone or late at night.
Still a good unit for just that???
Thanks
Jim

motoman,

OTA only is not working for me at this time.

I am waiting on a new unit. Mine took a while to have problems the first time. I would wait a few months and check back then.

I believe you need to ask the following:

1. Do you have a lot of ghosting at your location? f you do, there is a good chance the unit will not record without dropouts, audio and video.

2. Do you have air movement where you intend to place the unit? Several have reported temperature related issues. My first unit eventually stopped working unless I blew an 18" fan on it. Others have reported moving harnesses and installing Hard Drive cooling fans. Not my cup of tea.

3. You will miss recording sessions because as opposed to analog reception and recording, digital recording with this unit relies on a continuous stream of digital info. which when interrupted creates dropouts. As a result the guide system often makes mistakes and fails to record a program. So many factors have to be in sync that getting a recording can become problematic. It did for me.

All that said, I do miss recording HD programming in HD even if 3/4 of the time it had so many dropouts that I chose to watch the analog version I recorded in back of it.

I'm waiting a while before reinvesting my hard earned dollars. I definitely jumped too early on this one. I wonder if the HD230 purchasers went through this?

Originally posted by MrHifi
I believe you need to ask yourself the following:

1. Do I have a lot of ghosting at your location? f you do, theree is a good chance the unit will not record without dropouts, audio and video.

2. Do you have air movement where you intend to place the unit? Several have reported temperature related issues.

3. You will miss recording sessions because as opposed to analog reception and recording, digital recording with this unit relies on a continuous stream of digital info. which when interrupted creates dropouts and a guide system that often makes mistakes. So many factors have to be in sync that getting a recording can become problematic. It did for me.

All that said, I do miss recording HD programming in HD even if 3/4 of the time it had so many dropouts that I chose to watch the analog version I recorded in back of it.

I'm waiting a while before reinvesting my hard earned dollars. I definitely jumped too early on this one. I wonder if the HD230 peoplewent through this?

Art

It sounds like your environmental conditions will challenge any and all HDTV OTA solutions you may buy.

Go satellite or cable HDTV and you can forget this thread.

FYI, I've been running an RCA DTC100 sinc 1998. It works perfectly. I have C-Band/ Ku , 4DTV and an HDD200 for high definition. I receive over 30 HD channels from the aforementioned sources. My problems are with a poorly designed unit, not with OTA HD. I hope yours keeps working.

Originally posted by MrHifi
FYI, I've been running an RCA DTC100 sinc 1998. It works perfectly. I have C-Band/ Ku , 4DTV and an HDD200 for high definition. I receive over 30 HD channels from the aforementioned sources. My problems are with a poorly designed unit, not with OTA HD. I hope yours keeps working.

Art,

If I were you, and I am not, I would unsubscribe this to thread, and, get either a 169Time solution for either your RCA DTC100 or 4DTV-HDD200 STB, or, either a Dish 921 or HD-Tivo.

Murray,

I'm not sure why you want me to unsubscribe but I am troubled by someone who fails to acknowledge performance deficiencies in the face of so much evidence. Makes you wonder if LGE has people planted here to say nice things about their product. Of course I know I would never do that but then I'm not you.

The problem with the 169Time solution is that it freezes your options at a point in technological development time. Already their Firewire is incompatible with a number of recorders. Besides $1,000+ to record TV shows that I do not want to watch again is really a waste of money. The LGE 3410 in cobination with the DTC100 allowed me to record HD and watch. Perfect solution IMHO.

As far as the Dish 921 or TIVO units are concerned, you should understand that no self respecting owner of a C-Band system would ever consider the 3rd generation poor quality video that comes out of DISH and DIRECT TV. Cable is even worse. All three compress the first generation signal that I watch on C-Band so much as to take all the pleasure out of watching TV. I view on a 10 ft screen with a front prokector. To diminish quality at the front end with a pizza dish would border on stupidity.

Thanks anyway for the suggestions but I think I'll stick around this thread and offer advice and guidance when appropriate. As far as switching to DISH, I guess I've beaten that to death.

Art,

>>> I'm not sure why you want me to unsubscribe

Because while you try to play "Mr. A/V Ralph Nader", your comments here stopped being new, relevant or in any way helpful a very long time ago.

>>> Makes you wonder if LGE has people planted here to say nice things about their product.

It only makes you wonder, as you are the quintessential unfounded conspiracy theorist of the first order quick to question the veracity and honest motivations of all who dare to disagree with your one-note “it’s all crap” sonata.

>>> Thanks anyway for the suggestions but I think I'll stick around this thread and offer advice and guidance when appropriate.

You continue to look and sound like a disgruntled customer with a “Don’t buy here” sandwich sign on your back walking back a forth in front of a store that "just doesn't get it" and, only you do.

>>> As far as the Dish 921 or TIVO units are concerned, you should understand that no self respecting owner of a C-Band system would ever consider the 3rd generation poor quality video that comes out of DISH and DIRECT TV. Cable is even worse. All three compress the first generation signal that I watch on C-Band so much as to take all the pleasure out of watching TV.

There’s obviously just no pleasing you with anything, the LG 3410, or anything else. And, you seem to prefer it that way so as to have something to complain about.

Why not go stand on the Dish, DirecTV and Cable street corners and forum threads with your "it's all bad and they know it" attitude for awhile and give the LG 3410 threads a break from your non-stop tale of caution against anything not nearly as good as C-Band, which, 90+% of urban and suburban Americans are barred from erecting anyway.

>>> As far as switching to DISH, I guess I've beaten that to death.

Belive me, you "beat that to death" along with a lot more here.

Why not log-off and watch some C-band HDTV and enjoy yourself for a change, and give this tired old thread a break.

The release of the Sony or other next gen DVR's for you to rail on won't come a moment too soon.

Oh yeah, the Sony DVR's won't have RGB outputs, and, transcoders are such a compromise for those with older projectors without either Y,Pb,Pr componenet inputs, or, modern digital HDMI/DVI inputs for new HDTV digital television source devices.

See, it'll never end with you.

Originally posted by motoman
I was going to get a new unit as soon as Value Electronics get some more in but you guys are scaring me. I was only wanting a unit to record OTA HD programs that come on while I'm gone or late at night.
Still a good unit for just that???
Thanks
Jim

In my case, the 3410A eliminated the terrible dropout problems I had with the T165. HD picture quality is amazing through both component and DVI.

OTA only was more reliable than OTA/cable, which seems to sometimes confuse the Guide between cable HD and OTA HD channels in my area.

My unit has been working flawlessly for two weeks straight. But it sometimes loses the Guide info and scheduled recording info. I believe this has happened four times in two months. If I had not been home, scheduled recordings would not have taken place.

The Guide locked up, requiring a reboot three times within a couple of days. That was a month ago and the problem has not reappeared.

I'm just guessing here, but since all problems seem related to Guide functions, I'm wondering if it's a problem with the Guide info broadcast in my area. Many of the troubles I had came at the time of the mentioned confusion between HD OTA and HD cable channels. Once that straightened itself out, I've had only one glitch.

So, I like the unit even though it's not 100% reliable like VCR's were. That part can be frustrating. But it has worked great 95% of the time. $900 is too much to pay, but I knew that when I bought it. I was tired of waiting for a DVR (I purposely skipped the first generation HDR230) and am glad I bought the 3410A. It had been much more frustrating getting the constant dropouts with the T165/Mits 2000. A bonus is that I started to pick up a local Comcast cable HD channel (WGN), even though my area does not officially have HD available. Other channels should follow soon. I am now happily watching a lot of HD.

I hope my experiences help your decision. Everyone seems to expect something a little different from this unit.

No problems with mine, since day one. I am very pleased.

My Unit with version 1.14 has been working great since I got it as a replacement a week ago. The only problem is that it is working great in the OTA arena only. When I try to add Cable to the mix it doesn't like it. The guide will get locked up and the unit will not boot up correctly. You end up having to do a Hard Reset (Unplug the Unit) . Another wierd thing I have seen with this guide is that when you have the TV guide set to download with cable, when everything is loaded the DTV OTA channels (CBS,ABC,NBC ........) will only show the name of the show in the Descriptor,
no info on the show. Maybe this is a Brighthouse thing , figures, that some how the TV guide data is corrupted coming thru them. Because when you set the Gude up for OTA , Everything is stellar !!!!!!. Question is then how does one then get cable on the box then without downloading the guide thru cable. I think if they had this in the FW then that would clear up alot of issues. Still I love this box, i can Tape all the network shows in HD while I,m watching INHD1&2 , DiscHD, HBOHD, SHOWHD, HDNET,
or HDNETMOVIES. Vegas Looked great monday night, Nikki Cox, GRRRRRRR!

I now have my reconditioned unit with version 1.14.

Originally posted by motoman
I was going to get a new unit as soon as Value Electronics get some more in but you guys are scaring me. I was only wanting a unit to record OTA HD programs that come on while I'm gone or late at night.
Still a good unit for just that???


The 3410a is GREAT for OTA HD recording. I've had mine since the week they came out, have never missed a timed recording, and it gets better OTA reception than my old Sony HD-100 (which I still use). I don't have a cable connection and I don't use it for hours everyday; I keep it in my stereo cabinet (which I couldn't do w/the Sony) and have had no problems.

I also love my 3410, but it's predecessor, the Zenith HDR230 has a slightly more sensitive receiver. My only wish is that the customer should be able to perform software upgrades without having to return the unit to the manufacturer. Does anyone know what improvement 1.14 has over 1.12?

I don't think there is any improvement at all with 1.14. My unit just died tonight twice. Once while taping friends (using the TV Guide function) the other time just doing a manual record during CSI, and I only have OTA hooked up to it. This thing is a Piece of shizit. I am calling LG in the morning and demanding a refund. This is my second unit and i don't want to have a third. I guess I will just have to wait for BrightHouse to release their DVR later on this year and wont have to fork out a crapload of cash for it either . Hope you guys have better luck !!

I would think that if more than one unit showed a problem, that would indicate that the 3410 just might not be the issue.