Originally posted by KornerKlub
I would think that if more than one unit showed a problem, that would indicate that the 3410 just might not be the issue. :confused:

I wish we could narrow the problems down by location. Could certain areas be transmitting the Guide improperly, thereby causing most of the lockups, etc.?

As I've said, my unit works at about 95% efficiency. It's great with a glitch only infrequently. I don't think any of the consistent troubles reported here are in the Chicago area.

Philly,

The idea of localizing the units having problems is excellent. Why don't we try by zipcode and reception method, i.e. OTA or cable. If folks are willing, I'll compile a list and prepare a map. If others would prefer to do it that's fine, let's just do it. Frankly, I miss being able to record HD OTA and would purchase a third unit if I could get even 80% glitch free recording.. I suggest keeping it simple by rating performance as "acceptable" or "not acceptable". I'll begin by giving mine.

OTA, Not Aacceptable, 21035

OTA, Acceptable, 30319

I think it's likely to be a bit more difficult to generalize this, because in my case in the greater DC area, there are at least 3 major cable operators, since each jurisdiction has a separate cable company, and the OTA issues are also different from problems experienced thro cable.

I continue to have lock-up problems. Those are frustrating because after unplugging the unit, it can take quite a while for the clock to reset (it won't allow this manually) and the unit must be off to get guide info to reset the clock.

My Zip is 22042. My OTA High Definition reception with the box is excellent. If I tell it I don't have Cable, it gets the guide info off the air with no problems.

My cable reception is not High Definition because Cox scrambles the HD content, and even if I got the HD cable box, the LG recorder doesn't have component video inputs for HD, so I couldn't record the HD Cable unless I leased a recording cable box that they don't have yet.

If I tell the system I have a cable box, it often has difficulty getting the guide info, primarily because it gets confused trying to tune the cable box to the cable channel it needs to get the guide info from. I don't know if this is a problem with the channel database they are using, or it just forgets after I had to do a reset.

I would be willing to live with the box even with it's annoying cable box issues - if it were only more stable. As Art noted it does seem to run hot, and I'm now trying an auxilary cooling fan.

Ben,

I'm in the DC area also. Towards Annapolis. I reduse to connect to cable. I have a C-Band/Ku dish through which I get my HD. OTA comes from Washington, DC through a DTC100. Everything works perfectly. I had to return both 3410's for various reasons. How would you like me to enter your reply? Acceptable or Unacceptable?

I'm in the Tampa Bay area , my Zip is 34219
OTA, Not Acceptable,
Cable, Not Acceptable

See my above post

I am on my third unit. It is a reconditioned unit with firmware 1.14. I have only had it for two days and it is too early to tell if its working correctly. I am in the Chicago area (60067) and have the box setup for both cable and OTA. My second unit suffered from frequent lock-up problems when in the Gemstar guide. The problems became progressively worse. Eventually, the machine would lock-up as soon as you turned it on and was completely unusable. There was also a problem with the unit keeping the correct time. It was off by several hours for almost two weeks. It wasn't a time zone issue and it would not let me set the time manually. My first unit would randomly delete scheduled programs. It also had problems with audio dropouts.

In all three units, I have noticed gaps in the Gemstar guide where there will be no listings certain days. Example: There will be listings for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. But, there will be no listings for Sunday. Monday and Tuesday will have listings. Wednesday will have no listings. Thursday will have listings. With my last unit, it seemed that the lock-ups occured more on the days that did not have any listings. I'm not sure if there is any correlation, but it seemed to me that the lock-ups were being caused by bad Gemstar data.

37919
OTA Acceptable
Cable Acceptable

2muchtv,

What cableco do you have?

I'm in 60614 with OTA and Comcast, with acceptable performance for OTA only, and also for combined OTA and cable.

Originally posted by PhillyC
2muchtv,

What cableco do you have?

I'm in 60614 with OTA and Comcast, with acceptable performance for OTA only, and also for combined OTA and cable.


I have Comcast cable. Have you ever noticed gaps in the Gemstar guide listings? In my previous example, the days that have no listings never do get updated. I'm wondering if this because Gemstar doesn't have any information for those days, or if it is a problem with the downloading process.

Originally posted by 2muchtv
I have Comcast cable. Have you ever noticed gaps in the Gemstar guide listings? In my previous example, the days that have no listings never do get updated. I'm wondering if this because Gemstar doesn't have any information for those days, or if it is a problem with the downloading process.

KornerKlub explained this somewhere. As an example, if you begin with Guide download on Sunday night, you will have the following days on Monday:

M-Tu-W-x-x-x-x-M

On Tuesday you will see:

Tu-W-Th -x-x-x-M-Tu

On Wednesday:

W-Th-F-x-x-M-Tu-W

On Thursday:

Th-F-Sa-x-M-Tu-W-Th

On Friday:

F-Sa-Su-M-Tu-W-Th-F

So it takes five days for the entire Guide to fill in. Then it should stay full (8 days info) continuously. However, any glitch can change this. Sometimes my Guide will completely disappear and begin to reload all on its own. This wouldn't be terrible, except that it also loses scheduled programs.

I recently did a scan for new CADTV channels. The next day, the unit asked me to choose a channel lineup (just because I checked for a few new channels, which is stupid), which apparently caused it to "wait" for my input and it did not get the 8th day's Guide info. That day remained blank until the unit caught up to it.

Three losses happened with OTA. When I added cable, the 3410A went crazy, unable to discern between OTA and cable HD channels. After several days, it seemed to "learn" how to do this. (?!?) I had one lockup in the Guide after that, but it's now been flawless for over two weeks.

I really don't think the unit "learned" anything. This is why I suspect problems with Guide transmission in different locations. Of course, I'm only guessing. But the early reports on firmware 1.14 seem to say the upgrade does not correct the Guide problems.

PhillyC,

Thanks for the information. This would mean that whatever was causing the problems on my last unit, was also causing the guide information to reset itself. In the six weeks that I had the unit, I was never able to have a full 8 days worth of information. I will see if the information fills in on my new unit.

First unit worked for 2 weeks and then had lockup problems.
The SN last digits was '0050' maybe the 50 unit made?

The new one is '0185' and has not one problem, lockup or
missed recording.

Second unit working for the past 3 weeks

OTA, Acceptable, 77584 (Houston area)

Trying to corellate the location and type of signal is a good start. The other variables I can think of are, 1) has the harddrive been replaced (upgraded)? 2) How much clearance at the top of the 3410a until the next component? 3) What type of video output is being used? 4) What settings are selected in the menus? Did you manually set the clock before guide programming? 5) Is the LST-3410a connected to an UPS?

All of these things could be sending the LST-3410a down different firmware paths or causing processor hangs. Bad (unexpected) guide data is certainly one of the places I'd start looking first but not the last. BTW, when power has been cut (inadvertently during a very long power failure), some of the guide data was removed and I had to reset the clock.

For me: Houston (77058), OTA only, 250GB HDD, two feet of clearance, component outputs, clock was manually set, it is on an UPS and I've never had a problem.

Wasnt there a small separate thread started on the upgrading and sizes of hard drives for this unit? Maybe it we merged, I believe the largest anyone has done so far is 300mb.

I have heard of several people wanting to purchase those new 512mb or 1 terabyte drives as they become available. Has anyone installed anything larger than 300mb in this unit and had it all recoginized?

You can check by hitting the Program List button. Also be aware in the setup menu there is an option to select the grade quality of recording of the program to the hard drive.

Depending on how you set this, you will shorten or lengthen your total record time available from the hard drive capactity. HD setting using it up fastest obviously.

A great suggestion for LG would be to allow the user to set the record quality level setting when you set the timer to record a program. (IF its there I don't see it.)

The best drives for upgrading for this should be 5400rpm and from Seagate/Western Digital in my opinion. I have built custom systems for over a dozen years and the IBM's, and other hard drives have all burnt out, some with spectacular failures.

7200rpm drives make a very detectable whine over 5400rpm almost always, not to mention historically ( I say historically since I don't know every single hard ever made or new out there) run hotter also.

Several people have commented to me they put the 120mb or 160mb 7200rpm seagate/wd drives in HDR230 and while they got used to it, when turned on the whine was a real , noticeable distraction.

Heat has been a major complaint over and over in this thread, esp for the 3410. I would highly advise againt a 7200rpm hard drive in the 3410. I have to wonder how many units are not working well because of this?

I think someone posted about a small FAN they installed, I would be interested in hearing if they found a perfect match for the round fan cuts in the rear metal chasis of the 3410.

The Seagate/Western Digital 5400 rpm hard drives have become harder to find lately BUT they are tops in reliablility in my opinion.

Maxtors historically have been the next best choice, but some burnt out sooner for me than they ever should have--SOME at just a little outside the 1 year warranty most have. Some have 3 year warranties. I won't use a samsung or fujitsu, but thats just me, having seen them all burn out sooner.


There is a new Maxtor 5400rpm 250 gig that is available on the net many places for under or around 200$. IT has a THREE year warranty supposedly . Its the Maxtor Maxline II 250GB Hard Drive (Maxtor model - 5A250J0) . This might be a good choice and looks like the only 5400rpm drive I can find that is readily available for the boxes I build that don't need or want a 7200prm. Its a newer model drive, which usually means better materials and manufacture.

KEEP in mind, that to use this unit's hard drive, is to use it CONTINUOUSLY, so the faster RPM drives, which usually run hotter may not be the best suited necessarily. Its going to continuously write when it records, and the same thing for playback. Thats a big reason to buy a quality drive with a 3 year warranty.


I haven't upgraded my unit so I don't lose any warranty rights but I would be careful what hard drives you put in these boxes.

Originally posted by 2muchtv
In all three units, I have noticed gaps in the Gemstar guide where there will be no listings certain days. Example: There will be listings for Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. But, there will be no listings for Sunday. Monday and Tuesday will have listings. Wednesday will have no listings. Thursday will have listings. With my last unit, it seemed that the lock-ups occured more on the days that did not have any listings. I'm not sure if there is any correlation, but it seemed to me that the lock-ups were being caused by bad Gemstar data.

75025
OTA acceptable
DON'T USE CABLE (and that may help things)

The reason there are gaps in the guide as outlined above is because the guide starts assuming that the following week will have the same regular programming. This isn't always true, but I believe it starts w/a base and modifies it; this would tend to require less data to download (just the changes from previous week).
Unless someone here knows EXACTLY how the EPG works, I'm sticking by my theory. Also, if you've ever programmed a time slot that DOESN'T have guide info, notice that it fills it in by the time it records it.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Ben,

I had to return both 3410's for various reasons. How would you like me to enter your reply? Acceptable or Unacceptable?

Clarifying my eval from 22042

Off the air - Acceptable
via Cable - Unacceptable

I too have noticed guide gaps, though I haven't kept track of what they are, like cable guide vs. OTA.

Otherwise I seem be running ok. I set the clock time with the auto function to set the time and then switch it back to manual so it keeps time on its own. I also enter my scheduled record times manually rather than use the guide for now.

This way no errors or conflicts in the source of the time setting and also any errors or gaps in the scheduling guide cause me to lose a recording.

I did the same thing my HDR230 clock and never had a problem after that.

Anything external that drives this unit, like TV guide driven is only going to be as good as that source is. If it has gaps or errors or changes in the guide after you set something, or people don't leave the unit off every night , they will have guide update problems.

Though this raises an interesting question, what if you happened to record something for most of the night, do you NOT get the guide updates?

I for one, at 3 weeks now, like my unit and with leaving the time on manual setting after flopping it to auto to set it once, and programming the times manually for scheduled recordings have had no problems with the timer working.

I have firmware 1.12. Does ANYONE have a comprehensive list of the fixes for firmware 1.14?

Can anyone tell me if they cross-ship a unit with the new firmware if you send it in for the fix to update the firmware to Zenth/LG? Also can you post a contact/phone number to call to send it in for those who want to?

My zip is 92653 and my guide never shows up (always says "Failed to Download"). I've thus given up, and I have two units (need to check firmware). I'm sure I've got first gen firmware since I bought one of the first units.

I record using VCR plus. One unit is stock, the other has a 7200RPM 250GB HD installed with a hard drive cooling kit (http://www.pactech-inc.com/allhtmlpage/cooling_html/PA-UHDC.jpg).

My stock unit worked without trouble up until a couple of weeks ago. Now occasionally it's not turning on to record programmed shows. When I manually turn the unit on, it's very slow if sometimes not responsive. A hard power reset cures the problem quickly.

My second unit that has a bigger HD, gives me the same trouble, so it isn't hte hard drive upgrades that are affecting the units. I'm using the HD in the second unit as a "HD video server". I think heat is a major issue, as when I watched a movie off the hard drive, the first 40 minutes, no glitches. Second half of the movie broke up every 60 seconds. This is before the hard drive cooling kit. I'm going to redump the movie and try again.

The hard drive isn't the only bad heat generator in these units - the power supply also generates considerable heat. Why a fan was never installed is beyond me (poor engineering if you ask me).

<You can check by hitting the Program List button. Also be aware in the setup menu there is an option to select the grade quality of recording of the program to the hard drive.

Depending on how you set this, you will shorten or lengthen your total record time available from the hard drive capactity. HD setting using it up fastest obviously.

A great suggestion for LG would be to allow the user to set the record quality level setting when you set the timer to record a program. (IF its there I don't see it.)>



You can only set quality level for SD channels not HD.

With 12 responses, at this point we have 7 acceptables and 5 unacceptables. B Sanford voted Acceptable for OTA and Unacceptable for Cable, ZZtop I need your vote and zipcode. I will of course present a proper analysis after a week or two but I thought you all would want to know I am compiling. Please just give me an overall acceptable or not in terms of whether you think the unit's performance is what you thought it would be. Zipcode and city would help me so I do not have to go searching out a city name at the end.

Polls like this are quite common at the 4DTV Forum and Satforums. They are completely automated. Perhaps the moderators could look into that possibility.

Art,

have you received your refund yet ?? Just checking to see how you are getting yours. I called LG this morning and Brenda told me to fax her a copy of my bill of sale for the original unit and my serial # to my latest unit.
Then this will all have to go thru management there.

Originally posted by MrHifi
<You can check by hitting the Program List button. Also be aware in the setup menu there is an option to select the grade quality of recording of the program to the hard drive.

Depending on how you set this, you will shorten or lengthen your total record time available from the hard drive capactity. HD setting using it up fastest obviously.

A great suggestion for LG would be to allow the user to set the record quality level setting when you set the timer to record a program. (IF its there I don't see it.)>



You can only set quality level for SD channels not HD.


It would still be useful to be able to select the quality level of recording based on what quality you want to record and should be an easy firmware update.

Atlanta 30324 works fine. I had three options to choose from to get the correct guide. I get Comcast cable , no more channels now than before.


There has been a 1 day gap I noticed so far on the guide. I may or may not have forgotten to turn the unit off 1 night I don't remember. It is on a UPS to prevent power interruption.

UPS - that is a good point. Another variable is whether your LST-3410a is on a Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS). Of course whether it was delivered by UPS may also play into this :D

I'm editing my response to account for the UPS.

<have you received your refund yet ??>

No, I have not received it yet. They do have my second unit. They said it might take another 3 to 4 weeks before I get my refund.

I got my unit delivered from BestBuy today. Well, actually I didn't. :) I got a box that said I figured was the 3410A, but it actually contained a laptop. For a second I thought that maybe the sku # I read here was wrong and was actually for a laptop. I was thinking about keeping it figuring that I must have just ordered the wrong item, but then I realized that it would have been quite a coincidence for this sku # to be for a laptop and also be $799. Plus, I looked and it was a P4 2.5GHz with some nice stuff and I figured it was probably more. I looked at my receipt and it did specifically say a 3410A, so I figured it was just a shipping mistake. I took it back and they said the price on that was $1400. Somebody might have gotten canned over that one. Anyway, they straightened it out and now my 3410A is on order again. I hope I actually get it this time.

I'm finding this item tough to get. First I ordered it and they said it would be in the store on the 16th. Then I called on the 16th and they said it wasn't in, yet. So, I went in on the 19th and they looked into it and found it wasn't an item that could be sent to the store. It needed to be sent to my house. So, then I get the laptop today. It will be interesting to see what happens next.

--Darin

ZIP 13760

Off the air - Acceptable
via Cable - Acceptable

(I have had mine for 2 months, and have not had any problems.):)

I've had recurrent lock-up problems. I talked to customer service today, and will be sending my 2nd unit back for an "update" that LG said should resolve this problem. Hope it does.

I would be pushing for a refund right now, but unfortunately there isn't a good alternative that would let me record off-the-air ATSC HD. Even with some of it's design shortcomings, WHEN the unit works properly, it does work very well, and once I get a stable unit I'll then plan to upgrade to a larger HD.

Have anyone else received an updated unit that now doesn't have the lock-up problems?

Ben,
I have the latest FW 1.14 , and I am still getting the same lock up problems. I am asking for a refund since all the shows are repeats anyways this summer and there will be alot more HD DVR's on the market by fall and football season.

here is an update to my first post of the poll

Off the air - Acceptable
Have a UPS and a 6' fan blowing on it. (I had the SIR-T165 it would
get hot, this unit does not as much but I put it into the same setup)
100% record of all programs, over the last 1 month
This is my second unit from LG.
1.12 software.

OK, today I tried to turn on the unit and it would not boot up.
This is the same problem as the 1st unit.

I unplug it and it boot up. But I lost the time setting.
I had to remove all record settings and set the clock.

looks like it can run for a few weeks and then the memory of the
unit go bad and needs a cold reboot.

VERY BAD NEWS!!!!!!!!!!!

So when are you going to call LG ? I am waiting to hear back about the refund. It has to go thru management the CSR said.

I noticed they are now sponsoring the CBS shows in Primetime.
It says LG "Lifes good in HDTV" . Well it would be if they would get the
LST-3410A to work correctly.

MStanl,

I have a similar problem with it not booting up (the timer icon would go out when I pressed the power button, but nothing else would happen). Just emailed back and forth with customer service, and will be sending my machine back in for a firmware update.....

Hope it will help.

so mstnl, u still feel this is acceptable? Do u want to be listed acceptable or not acceptable?

orbitzboy,

good luck with the upgrade, I have version 1.14 and it still has the same problem as MStanl's box.

I'm soory but I have to laugh. These are the same comments I posted several months ago when mine suffered the same problems. The tuner is superb but everything else seems compromised.

Our poll 9 Acceptable 4 unacceptable!!!!!!!!!!

I have had my replacement for about a week now. I have not had problems yet, but I have tried to avoid using the guide for the most part. I have not remapped channels or deleted channels from the guide like I did before. I am also only using timed recordings. I have also not replaced the drive with the larger one. We'll see if I this avoids the problems. I thought a power failure during a guide download may have caused my problems before.

I had the guide fail in a weird way, 3rd time now.

I selected a show from the TV guide to record a day in advance, and it recorded exaclty 1/2 the progam.

I was sitting there watching it, no mistakes or misunderstanding on my part.

It came on for a movie and shut down 1/2 way through.

Definite bug using that guide to set recordings on the timer.

Manually timed recordings I have had no problem with.

I like the unit but they should fix this.

I myself do not have any of these EPG scheduled recording problems, but, I live in L.A. where the Gemstar data feed may be more stable because they are based here, and, I do not use the feature extensively.

However, I would make the educated guess that this is not an LG 3410 shortcoming as much as it may in fact be a Gemstar data problem in various locations around the country.

They will tell you they only pass along the data the networks provide.

LG will tell you they only incorporate the TVGuide feature and Gemstar is in control of the quality and accuracy of the data.

I would suggest raising holy hell with Gemstar to work directly with LG to get to the bottom of this:

Ron Hurst
Gemstar International Group
135 N Los Robles Ave # 800.
Pasadena, CA
626-792-5700- Corporate
626-792-2345 - Direct

I agree the most likely culprit is the guide, I posted on here earlier, anything external that drives these types of units, meaning PVRs, like the guide can cause issues, thats why I usually set the time manually.

I had jumped to the tv guide and done quick add to record it, when a promo for the movie came on a day before.

If I had set the program manually I am sure it would have been just fine, never had a failure that way.

Interesting bug though, records exactly 1/2 to the minute of what you schedule, even 30 minute recordings, like ESPN programs recorded for 15 minutes set via the GUIDE and not manually via the timer.

Here are the problems with mine. I have tried setting up the guide three different ways also. 1. Using OTA only 2. Using OTA and Cable (No cable box connected) 3. Using OTA and Cable (cable box connected thru AV1) . With all three setups I still get the same problems. I even tried setup # 2 and then unplugged the cable connection so no guide info would be downloaded and still get the same Lockup.

1. I will be doing a timed or Guide recording and during the recording I will notice that the clock will stop functioning. when this happens the box has totally locked up, but the picture is still viewable ( just can't stop recording,access menu or anything ). Only thing that works after pressing it a few times is the power off button. Then if you power on the box again it doesn't boot up properly. ( the word "Hello" will not come up and TV screen is Blank ). The only way to get it to boot up properly is to do a Hard Reset ( Unplug the Box) .

2. Last night I did a timed recording of Frazier and of NYPD Blue . When I woke up this morning and tried to turn on the unit it would not Boot up ( the word "Hello" will not come up and TV screen is Blank ). The only way again to get it to boot up properly was to do a Hard Reset ( Unplug the Box) . Then the box came up and I noticed it had recored both shows properly.

3. The hardest thing to figure out is when is the unit actually failing and what is actually failing.

Also when I did the cool boot I later found that the next week 1 day TV guide was missing. It is missing the nexts week Mondays listings.
OK I still like the unit for the most part, but if it has a problem rebooting again in the next month, I most likly be out of service warranty 90s days,
Got mine Feb. 16, 2004 on the first unit which is when LG starts counting,
even if you receive a replacement like me.

So, I'll hope and stay with Acceptable,

But would not recomand this unit to anyone.

I hope someday to get a unit that will have multi turns and can record and play at the same time. I still like the pause retime TV.

Thanks ALL
Mike S
Houston,TX

It's possible that the quality of Gemstar data varies from city-to-city, or at least the broadcast quality of the PBS signal does.
All I know is that I've had no problems here in Dallas. I think the whole "free" OTA guide thing is great, and it was a good idea to build an HD PVR around because the PSIP data is still unstable in most cases.

LG is sending out my shipping forms today to return the unit for a refund.
They say the reund will take up to 4 - 6 weeks to process. I love it, i can't even keep the crappy box until they send me my refund !! Has anybody else requested and received a refund ? i will now wait for BH Networks to come out with the SA8000HD DVR this summer. The only thing that stinks about BH is that we don't get NBC from them yet or ESPNHD. We get everything else though. So that is nice.

I've requested and returned but I'm still waiting to see cash..

Originally posted by jrfsu1
Here are the problems with mine. I have tried setting up the guide three different ways also. 1. Using OTA only 2. Using OTA and Cable (No cable box connected) 3. Using OTA and Cable (cable box connected thru AV1) . With all three setups I still get the same problems. I even tried setup # 2 and then unplugged the cable connection so no guide info would be downloaded and still get the same Lockup.

1. I will be doing a timed or Guide recording and during the recording I will notice that the clock will stop functioning. when this happens the box has totally locked up, but the picture is still viewable ( just can't stop recording,access menu or anything ). Only thing that works after pressing it a few times is the power off button. Then if you power on the box again it doesn't boot up properly. ( the word "Hello" will not come up and TV screen is Blank ). The only way to get it to boot up properly is to do a Hard Reset ( Unplug the Box) .

That's exactly the failure mode (or at least one of them) that I've been having with the lockups. I've had lockups while doing a timed recording standard video thro the AV1 input, so the guide should not have been the cause of that type of lockup.

Both units I had worked fine for a couple of weeks, and then the look-ups started to occur, and became more and more frequent.

I would still highly recommend the unit, the manually set recordings are working okay for me so far with firmware 1.12. The guide set recordings don't work and I wish they would but it's an easy work around to set the timer manually.

I had the clock lose 8 minutes.

I am unsure how the 34190 clock works since the unit has you manually set an internal clock and I have not had a power failure which might wipe out the clock entirely, unlike an auto clock that loses the amount of time the battery is disconnected.

Originally posted by ZZtop
I agree the most likely culprit is the guide, I posted on here earlier, anything external that drives these types of units, meaning PVRs, like the guide can cause issues, thats why I usually set the time manually.

I should probably know this, but how is the Gemstar transmitted?

Originally posted by JRTrautschold
I should probably know this, but how is the Gemstar transmitted?


JRTrautschold

It is transmitted through the vertical blanking interval portion of many national & local market redundant VHF broadcasters signal including ABC and PBS among others.

My replacement 3410A is still good after about 2 weeks. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Originally posted by umr
My replacement 3410A is still good after about 2 weeks. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Just curious... Which version of firmware did your replacement come with and do any of these replacements come with internal cooling fans installed?

I have version 1.14 of the firmware. There is no cooling fan. I am not certain that is an issue myself. I have read the theories on this, but I saw no correlation with this.

My third unit (1.14 firmware) died on Friday. I only had it for a week. I have had enough and have requested a refund from LG. I am going back to using my HDR230 for HD content. Since I sold my Tivo when I bought the LST3410, I purchased a Panasonic DMR-E85HS for SD content. The funny thing is that the Panny unit has the same Gemstar TV Guide software as the LST3410, except without any of the problems that I experienced. Maybe the Gemstar data wasn't the cause after all. Maybe the problems are caused by the way LG integrated the Gemstar software into their unit. For those of you that are still having problems with the LST3410, all I can say is good luck.

"This LST-3410a will self destruct in ......6 weeks"

That's what I think is happening. Okay, that's overboard, and yes, still on first firmware, but I'm noting a rate of "decay" with the unit. As time goes on, more and more problems develop. All the problems pointed out in this thread have manifested themselves at one point or another (or are ongoing). But what I've noticed, even with a hard power off, the problems return more quickly than they used to.

I've also noticed that channels change far more slowly than they used to, and tuning in signals is much more slow.

I have yet to encounter the stuck on "Hello" bug.

I went problem free for six weeks (yes, that's not a typo) until the first issue manifested itself (the timer recordings weren't working). For starter, no matter what zip code I enter, I don't get the OTA TV guide. Don't need it, or do I? Because everytime I turn the unit on, it is on the TV Guide screen with the "failed to download" message. But, all my VCR+ recordings are working.

However, at some point they stop working. How can I tell (other than the unit isn't on when it should be or nothing recorded)? When I power on the unit, instead of the TV Guide menu and message combo, it's just on the channel it's tuned into. No TV Guide menu, no "failed to download message", etc.

Also, pressing the TV Guide button fails to bring up the guide, and the VCR+ function fails to work (I can't program anything). Only a hard power off corrects this function.

Why this starts popping up after six weeks is beyond me. But alas, I'm held hostage by the LG - I need the firewire.

I haven't spent to much time with my second unit (likely first firmware as well), but I did post of my thoughts about heat with a HD upgrade (won't reiterate it here)

bwiklem,

Sounds like yours is a goner. I saw the same behavior with my first unit. My second may just be too young to have failed. You should contact LG and see what they will do. We may never get this resolved if we don't complain or get refunds. I plan on returning mine until they get it right or I might switch to an HD Tivo.

UMR, problem is I need the firewire to dump to D-VHS. If there was an alternative, I'd have jumped by now.

I guess you could say I'm caught between a rock and no archival HD

Originally posted by bwiklem
UMR, problem is I need the firewire to dump to D-VHS. If there was an alternative, I'd have jumped by now.

I guess you could say I'm caught between a rock and no archival HD

I don't have a need, but I want my D-VHS to work as well. Please complain to LG since you are having problems with your new unit.

I finally got my 3410A yesterday from BestBuy and tried it tonight. The one thing I can't figure out is how to play D-Theater material. This is one reason I bought it and the projector (Sharp 11k) I am playing things on supports HDCP on the DVI input. I can get my 169time recordings to work, but get no picture for D-Theater material (I haven't checked the sound as I am using that out of the 30k). Any help would be appreciated. I want to be able to play my DVE tape so that I can calibrate things and also would like to check out some of my D-Theater movies. I realize that I won't be able to transfer copy protected material to the hard drive, but should be able to view it.

So far it seems like it locks onto signals better than my AccessDTV card or DTC100, so that is good.

Thanks,
Darin

Originally posted by darinp2
I finally got my 3410A yesterday from BestBuy and tried it tonight. The one thing I can't figure out is how to play D-Theater material. This is one reason I bought it and the projector (Sharp 11k) I am playing things on supports HDCP on the DVI input. I can get my 169time recordings to work, but get no picture for D-Theater material (I haven't checked the sound as I am using that out of the 30k). Any help would be appreciated. I want to be able to play my DVE tape so that I can calibrate things and also would like to check out some of my D-Theater movies. I realize that I won't be able to transfer copy protected material to the hard drive, but should be able to view it.

So far it seems like it locks onto signals better than my AccessDTV card or DTC100, so that is good.

Thanks,
Darin

Darin

I successfully play D-Theater tapes from my JVC 30K through my LG 3410 to an Infocus SP 7200.

Have you ever successfully played HDCP through the DVI input of your Sahrp 111K say from a DVI DVD player?

Originally posted by mkerdman
Have you ever successfully played HDCP through the DVI input of your Sahrp 111K say from a DVI DVD player?
My DVI DVD players don't have HDCP, but I have played D-Theater tapes through the T165 to the 11k. It definitely supports HDCP. My JVC SX21 doesn't and so D-Theater tapes through the T165 to that one do not work, while other tapes do. I get the common static for HDCP problems in that case, though.

I will try 720p (instead of 1080i) and play with the video vs computer input on the 11k and see if it makes any difference. Basically, what I get is just black for the image, but the overlay for the control from the 3410A is up on the screen.

Thanks,
Darin

Originally posted by darinp2
My DVI DVD players don't have HDCP, but I have played D-Theater tapes through the T165 to the 11k. It definitely supports HDCP. My JVC SX21 doesn't and so D-Theater tapes through the T165 to that one do not work, while other tapes do. I get the common static for HDCP problems in that case, though.

I will try 720p (instead of 1080i) and play with the video vs computer input on the 11k and see if it makes any difference. Basically, what I get is just black for the image, but the overlay for the control from the 3410A is up on the screen.

Thanks,
Darin

Darin

If the audio works right away, try waiting a little while for the image to sync.

The selected resolution on the 3410 might be affecting things.

Try putting the LG in "Native" output mode and set the DVI output to "Expand" in the SETUP menu.

Originally posted by mkerdman
If the audio works right away, try waiting a little while for the image to sync.

The selected resolution on the 3410 might be affecting things.

Try putting the LG in "Native" output mode and set the DVI output to "Expand" in the SETUP menu.
Thanks,

Actually I found a magic sequence, but I don't know if it will always work or be required. I recorded some of a 169time tape to the hard drive. I started playing it back, then hit "stop" and played a D-Theater tape. That time it worked. Then I stopped the tape, fast forwarded it and tried to play it again and it didn't work. But bringing that other HD recording up, playing a little bit, stopping it and then going to the D-Theater tape worked.

One interesting thing is that I still couldn't see any "blacker-than-black" from that DVE tape even in regular signal mode. I could see some "whiter-than-white" and that is what I care most about, but either there really aren't any unique "blacker-than-black" signals on that tape or they aren't being passed across.

Thanks,
Darin

It must be magic !!! My unit has now worked for two days in a row now.
Here's what I did. I did a complete reset . I went into the guide setup and changed the zip code to a known St Petersburg zip (I Was using my zip where I live outside of Bradenton). Then after i did this I just EZ scanned the Digital OTA channels. WALA !! No lock ups as of yet, i have done every kind of recording over the past two nights (Manual, Timed, and TV Guide) . Does this mean it is totally working maybe not , we'll see.

Originally posted by darinp2
One interesting thing is that I still couldn't see any "blacker-than-black" from that DVE tape even in regular signal mode. I could see some "whiter-than-white" and that is what I care most about, but either there really aren't any unique "blacker-than-black" signals on that tape or they aren't being passed across.

Thanks,
Darin

Darin

Did you set the DVI output to "Expand" in the SETUP menu?

I am not sure if this has been reported before (it is an awfully long thread ;) ) but I saw some interesting behavour with my unit today.

I was playing back off the HDD and recording to the DVHS at the same time. I did this by starting the HDD playback and skipping to the middle of the recording as I only wanted the second half. When the part I wanted started, I pressed record on the DVHS.

Any guesses as to what I got??

I played back the tape and saw... the show that the tuner was tuned to while I was playing back from the HDD!

Sp, it seems that this feature would allow you to record the live feed to tape while watching a show on the HDD. Could be useful I guess...

Does anyone know how to record part of a show to tape?

Cheers!
DAve.

My replacement just missed if first recording. I guess I am going to be calling LG again. This one is manually scheduled and still shows up in the schedule for next week.

Well it was just magic for two days. It wouldn't boot up yesterday. Had to do a hard reset to get it back up. Still waiting on the refund.

As many of you know, I have been tabulating a poll of whether users find the LST 3410's performance to be acceptable or unacceptable. With this post I am ending the poll. From the information below you can draw your own conclusions.

Name Location/Zipcode Signal Source Acceptability

Mr. HiFi 21035 OTAUnacceptable
Skipm 30319 OTA Acceptable
BenSanford 22042 OTA/Cable Acceptable for OTA Unacceptable for Cable
Jrfsu1 Tampa Bay 34219 OTA/Cable Unacceptable
2muchTV Chicago 60067 OTA/Cable Unacceptable
KornerKlub 37919 OTA/Cable Acceptable
PhillyC 60614 OTA/Cable Acceptable
Mstanl 77584 Houston OTA Acceptable
Alk3997 Houston OTA Acceptable
Stanton 75025 OTA Acceptable
ZZtop 30324 Atlanta Acceptable
Bwiklem 92653 Acceptable
fp4me 13760 OTA/Cable Acceptable



From this tiny sampling one would conclude that most units are operating satisfactorily and most owners find the overall experience acceptable. Hopefully, you are in this group. Good Luck.

Phloyd, what you saw is normal behavior (and is documented in the manual). To record from the HDD you should use the menu item which is something like "dub to DVHS". Otherwise, as you found out, the tuner is output over the 1394 interface.

MrHiFi, what do the 'x's mean in your chart? The columns didn't hold in your append, so everything is bunched together and I can't figure out who had acceptable readings and who didn't.

Take another look. My readout looks OK. i tried to input the table originally but this forum does not allow you to do that.

FWIW, we are very pleased with what the LG allows us to do - have a number of demo clips that are easily accessible to show our customers a range of HD material. I have not seen any major issues... yet!

As for HDD > DVHS, I saw that option though I only want the second half of the recording on tape. I guess I need to use that mode to get it started and hope that I can pause the recording or something to record only the part that I need.

I would simply clip it, but I want to keep the first half on the HDD also...

Cheers!
DAve.

It seems that some have had serious problems with multiple different boxes and different firmware. It also doesn't seem likely that you're ALL idiots. So this would seem to point to your particular locations.

I just re-read the HDR230 mega thread and certain areas of the country were plagued by psip issues. The 3410a doesn't use the psip for the guide, but it does use it for a lot of other stuff.

It does seem likely to me the problems are being caused by the guide implementation either OTA and/or cable.

My box went through a somewhat shakey period 3 weeks ago but has settled down and has been perfect ever since. I don't think this is really possible electronicallyin the box. I think I must not be making confusing remote entries OR the airways at my location have improved. I'm going with the latter.

Lew

Phloyd, here is a simple way to do what you said would like (although time consuming)...

Transfer the full program to DVHS. Do not delete off of the 3410a. Transfer the new DVHS recording back to the 3410a, which gives you a second copy on the 3410a. You can now have a full version and then edit the second (or first) copy for only the part you want to keep.

Andy

Have you had any glitching problems with 169Time HBOHD recordings made on D-VHS and played back through the 3410 over it's DVI output?

I have such problems when I record from my 169Time D* DTC100, but, only with HBOHD, and not any other HD channel.

Do you have a D* or E* based 169Time system.

Just a suggestion for all the lock up victims. The 3100A manual has this special note:

****There might be some areas where the signal strength could be too high. If so, you may need to connect the
antenna to an attenuator. Screw the attenuator onto the “ANT IN” jack.****

I'm assuming both 3100A and 3410A are using the same technology, don't know why this note wasn't mentioned in the 3410A manual. Maybe it's worth trying while waiting for LG to come up with a solution.

Too high a signal becomes a problem in amplified systems where the antenna is subjected to multiple signals ( multipath). Whereas the higher level signals are limited and clamped, lower level unwanted signals are amplified and confuse the tuner. I tried attenuating mine to no avail.

Originally posted by alk3997

Transfer the full program to DVHS. Do not delete off of the 3410a. Transfer the new DVHS recording back to the 3410a, which gives you a second copy on the 3410a. You can now have a full version and then edit the second (or first) copy for only the part you want to keep.

That is pretty much what I ended up doing. Though I only uploaded the second half and then cut it to size and dumped it back to a new tape.... I guess I can also now clip the original copy, seeing as the second half is duplicated....

Cheers!
DAve.

I got my unit back from the 1.14 firmware upgrade this week. Although I plan to use OTA and cable (no box), i have only connected the cable. First nite easy scan would not work. Manually entered channels. Also noticed that when I tried to set clock it thought I had programs set to record. I could not remove as I could not get into setup which is in the easy scan area. Magically, almost 24 hours later to the hour.. the easy scan menu comes up by itself. Still no guide data. I did the scan and had the channels loaded, then started playing with setting favorites etc. Then it locked up, I turned it off and back on and it was OK. Locked up again, I did hard reset, clock data is gone and still no guide after 24 more hours. I;ll play with it this weekend but believe it will be going back to LG for a refund next week.

Noticed strange behavior when favorites button used. I also feel the problems are related to the guide somehow. Anyone think it could be related to the small module added to our cable by comcast when we have cable modem?

We really like the features if we could only get it to work correctly? Does anyone know of a similar box with same features that actually work? Not sure if any of this will help someone but thought I should share.

umr,

In some earlier postings on this thread you indicate you had some audio problems with B&K equipment. Were these drop outs? I am curious because I'm considering the 3410A and have a B&K Ref 50. HD Tivo is out but I don't want to have to pay D* just for OTA HD because I definitely don't want to pay D* for SD since I use E* now and wouldn't move to their 921 either. All I want is a HD OTA P/DVR.

-Ray

bloozeman,

This STB does not work well with B&K. Depending on your software and hardware you will either have loud pops or dropouts at a relatively high frequency. I would estimate about once every 5 minutes.

I would also not recommend this unit until they fix the problems with it.

I am becoming convinced heat is a problem with this unit. I took mine apart today to use it with my 200mb drive. It was hot inside with the standard 120mb drive. After about an hour of use with the 200mb drive I started having problems. Including a message about a HD problem.

I took it apart to put the 120mb drive back in place and it was much hotter inside. Unfortunately, my 3410A is still having problems after putting the 120mb drive back. I am going to leave it off overnight to see if that clears the problems.

This may be a breakthrough in knowledge of how the LST-3410a operates. Unfortunately, it doesn't get us anywhere closer to a fully reliable unit.

On Sunday, we were recording one of the local stations during a four hour program. In the middle of their broadcast their PSIP data lost its information. So, the PSIP data was being sent but the table information was missing. When the recording started, the channel number was the station's pseudo channel number while at the end of the recording, the channel number display showed the "real" broadcast channel.

The good news was that the LST-3410a recorded all the way through to the end. The bad news was that at the end of the recording time, when the unit attempted to shutoff, it hung - big time. By unplugging it (for greater than two minutes), deleting all timer settings and then reinitializing the time, I was able to get the LST-3410a to start responding again.

However, all hard disk drive functions were extremely slow. The first try at playback was spurts of picture and then blank screen. I then did a few power-off/power-on toggles and deleted one 30 minute program. This time the picture came up normal, but the hard drive was still taking 10 minutes to initialize. All menu items concerning the hard disk drive were also slow in responding.

There were two things that I had never tried before on the hard drive when the PSIP glitch occurred. One was that 35 files were stored on the hard drive. The other was I was using part of the hard disk drive I had not used before. My wife thinks it may be some directory structure glitch caused by the hang-up last Sunday.

Today I deleted what we were recording on Sunday (it was filled with glitches starting an hour into the program). I also deleted an older 30 minutes program. The LST-3410a appears to now be responding normally, but I will have to really check this evening (didn't have enough time this morning).

I have a few questions to help in diagnosis,

1) Has anyone had more than 35 program recordings stored at once?
2) Has anyone had more than 24 hours of HD recordings stored at once?

I'd ask if anyone was recording when a PSIP-glitch occurred but that is a difficult one to pin down. I only know the PSIP glitch on Sunday because I discussed it with the station engineer today.

I have to believe the PSIP glitch in the middle of the recording had something to do with the hang. But, in a well thought out product, shouldn't it be impossible for your local station to hang the receiver?

I really sypathize with the people who say that CE manufacturers should provide products that don't hang in the middle of use. Until this can be done, HD really isn't ready for the average consumer.

FWIW,

I've been waiting over a month for my promised refund. LGE says their next mailing will be May 26, 2004. They did not know whether my refund check would go out then.

I've noticed a problem - the "Lord of the Rings - Two Towers" which is 720p and recorded from pay per view (to D-VHS), it dumped fine to the LG unit. However, it freezes up on playback. It either freezes on a frame (almost immediately), or the screen goes black and the unit displays "no signal"

Go figure....

Is there a limit to how long a program can be timeshifted?

i.e. - If you press TIMESHIFT at the start of a 4-hr program, will you be able to record the entire 4 hours while using timeshift functions? Is the limit merely determined by how much space is left on the hard-drive?

What happens if you have a preset recording program but you happen to be using the 3410A at the time that the preset recording is supposed to start?

For those looking to keep the 3410 from any build-up of excessive heat, try this:

COOL-IT mkII EQUIPMENT COOLER

http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/coolrectherc.html

http://www.smarthome.com/8734C.HTML

OK, my vote now goes to not acceptable!

last night the unit would not boot up again after 2 weeks
of use. Did not record a set program the day before when
I was not home as it turns out also. I could not get it to boot
up at all after turning it on and off may times.
So I un pluged it and for 5 seconds and it would then boot up
and go to channels, But the clock was not set "--:--". So
I tried to set the clock and it told me I had to delete my scheduled
programs before it would set the clock. OK, Tried to go into the
TVGuide and it would not go., I could see the little red lite flash
but would not show and TVguide, Tried the VCR+ same problem.
I tried the timeshift and it told me to set the clock which I cannot
if a scheduled show is set. Can someone say software design
bug!!!!!!!!! Well I unpluged it for 1 hour ro so and tried it again.
I was able to now set the clock now, But you guessed it lost
all TVGuide information and the record shows now show ??/??
for date to record. I do not know if it will be fixed over night or
not.

Looks like my unit needs a fresh reboot about every 2 weeks.
Bad new for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I let you know what LG says now. 3 days left in my 90 day warr.

Thanks All
Mike

Originally posted by mkerdman
For those looking to keep the 3410 from any build-up of excessive heat, try this:

COOL-IT mkII EQUIPMENT COOLER

http://www.sportsimportsltd.com/coolrectherc.html

http://www.smarthome.com/8734C.HTML

Just buy yourself a hard drive cooling kit and save yourself over $100...

Originally posted by bwiklem
Just buy yourself a hard drive cooling kit and save yourself over $100...

bwiklem

That's assuming that the hard drive is the sole source and affected area of any heat problems in the unit.

Has anyone who was promised a refund actually received one? I'm beginning to think LGE is playing with us. I'm not going to let this drop. Another week and I will contact the Feds.

Ive been promised a refund, my unit just went back to them this week.

I have been promised a refund, but I am still waiting for the shipping label. When I called yesterday to find out why I have not received it, I was told that someone would have to call me back. I'm still waiting for that call!

For those of you that have received shipping labels, how long did it take?

Originally posted by bwiklem
Just buy yourself a hard drive cooling kit and save yourself over $100...

What kit did you use and how easy was it to install?

2muchtv,

It took about a week process to get my shipping labels.

Let me add one thing I left off from my previous Sunday "experiment" description. When the hard drive contained a recording with really bad PSIP data and various station-generated audio/video dropouts, the LST-3410a initialized the hard drive very very slowly at power up.

In fact, the initialization was slow enough that the timer started to try to record prior to the hard drive being initialized. When that happened, the LST-3410a would stay on but nothing would be recorded. At the end of the timer period, the LST-3410a would then shut off but no program was ever recorded.

The other thing that would occur is that when the station's PSIP was still bad and missing its pseudo channel number, the LST-3410a would want to record from the pseudo channel number and not find it. At that point, no recording would take place either. A further experiment showed that if the station is sending a pseudo channel number and you try to record from the real channel number, a recording will also not take place.

Bottom line to all this is, 1) you have to make sure that what has been recorded does not have a lot of bit or PSIP table errors and 2) you have to make sure that the station number being recorded is the current one being sent out by the station. There sure is a lot of care and feeding needed to make the LST-3410a work properly.

I wish I understood the relationship between recorded PSIP errors and hard drive initialization times but I really can't figure it out. For what it is worth, my LST-3410a is back to functioning normally again.

Originally posted by alk3997

I have a few questions to help in diagnosis,

1) Has anyone had more than 35 program recordings stored at once?
2) Has anyone had more than 24 hours of HD recordings stored at once?



I've had a total of ~37 hours recorded with more than 35 programs as some were 30 minutes and some 1 hour long programs. Haven't had any issues (knock on wood) yet.

Todd

Has anyone tried not using the Tv guide function at all. What I mean by that is when you initially set up the box, put in a bogus zip code like 00000,
then say you have cable hooked to it but don't ever connect the cable. Works fine, no lock ups for five days straight, but of course can't use guide info or cable to the box ever. The unit is still going back for refund.

Originally posted by ToddMK
I've had a total of ~37 hours recorded with more than 35 programs as some were 30 minutes and some 1 hour long programs. Haven't had any issues (knock on wood) yet.

Todd

Todd

Exactly which hard drive did you put in there?

Are your program length and space remaining calculations still performed accuratly +/- by the software with the larger drive?

Well, you can add me to the list of those with UNACCEPTABLE units. The last few days have seen the dreaded lockups appear, as described by many others here.

I just arranged for an exchange with LG. At least there was no hold time --- I got a live person immediately.

FWIW, the CSR said all replacements are NEW units only. He also said he was not aware of any widespread problems with the 3410A.

Hmmmmm.

Originally posted by PhillyC
...FWIW, the CSR said all replacements are NEW units only. He also said he was not aware of any widespread problems with the 3410A.

Hmmmmm.

That was not the case for me. Mine has a "refurbished" sticker on the back.

Originally posted by PhillyC
Well, you can add me to the list of those with UNACCEPTABLE units. The last few days have seen the dreaded lockups appear, as described by many others here.

I just arranged for an exchange with LG. At least there was no hold time --- I got a live person immediately.

FWIW, the CSR said all replacements are NEW units only. He also said he was not aware of any widespread problems with the 3410A.

Hmmmmm.

OK, same here when I called LG about my current problem of non boot up.
The rep ask that I plug it into a different plug and try again. I have a very good ACP UPS with the AVR on and the 3410 is pluged into that unit. I do not give that muct hope.

Rep also said they were not aware of any problems with this unit and I told her thats not what I see on the fourms.

Also think about this if you loss power to the unit I find 2 different problem.
Thefirst the clock if still set is not the correct time, but you must first delete record set programs before you can change the time.

Next is if the power is out for too long then the clock will show --:-- and this problem will force you to unplug the unit for hours to clear out all the TVGuide and scheduled record shows, so that you can set the clock and wait over night for the TVGuild to be set up again.

Yes I have a UPS and if you plain to keep this unit you better have one on it too.


My vote is still UNACCEPTABLE, Ilike the functions of this unit but not the problems the last 2 units have had. I hop this plug into a different plug works but I dont see how.

Mike

Originally posted by PhillyC
Well, you can add me to the list of those with UNACCEPTABLE units. The last few days have seen the dreaded lockups appear, as described by many others here.

I just arranged for an exchange with LG. At least there was no hold time --- I got a live person immediately.

FWIW, the CSR said all replacements are NEW units only. He also said he was not aware of any widespread problems with the 3410A.

Hmmmmm.

Philly,

I wonder how UMR and Kornerclub are fairing. They dumped on me when I reported many of these problems back in February. I've been waiting since the middle of April for my refund. I hope you have better luck. I am prepared to start a class action lawsuit against LGE for deceptive advertising and misrepresentation. These units do not work consistently and have not been properly tested before release to unsuspecting American consumers. If you do not receive your refund by September maybe we should talk. I still would like to know if anyone has received the promised refund after returning the unit to LGE.

MrHifi,

My 2nd unit seems to be fairing reasonably well. I have come to believe it may be mostly a thermal problem. I tried a larger high speed drive and had tons of problems. I went back to the standard drive and it has had only one problem (missed one recording).

When I had it apart it was very hot. It also looked like LG was using more thermal compound and maybe larger heat sinks than I remember seeing in my first unit. I have ordered a small fan that I plan on locating in the position they designed one to be in. That should relieve the heat problem from the power supply.

I was mostly giving you grief about complaining about features they never promised. Complaining about software or hardware bugs is perfectly legit.

Our unit has not shown any signs of lockup.

Someone posted that they had no problems because they have no guide.

We almost never turn our unit off, so we seldom have a guide also - perhaps this is the key...?

Cheers!
DAve.

My unit is working. What else can I say? I did notice that during a short power outage, the clock was incorrect by 45 minutes. However, after about 1 hour after I noticed, the clock was corrected automatically. It appears that the key is having good guide data downloads to keep everything working smoothly.

I did notice something else,though. After an extended power outage, with the clock gone, I was unable to set the clock as mentioned by others. However, I had missed a few guide downloads and was unable to enter the guide at all. Simply unplugging the unit and putting the Guide Demo Pin back in when first powered up seemed to reset things properly.

<When I had it apart it was very hot. It also looked like LG was using more thermal compound and maybe larger heat sinks than I remember seeing in my first unit. I have ordered a small fan that I plan on locating in the position they designed one to be in. That should relieve the heat problem from the power supply.

I was mostly giving you grief about complaining about features they never promised. Complaining about software or hardware bugs is perfectly legit.>

There is no question in my mind that temperature sensitivity issues are responsible for many of the problems including my first unit's. You will recall that it required an 18" fan blowing on it just to keep it running. The legitimacy or lack therof regarding the AV1/AV2 requirement for receiving HD material from cable in a non-HD format although presented in the instruction manual is not something many unsuspecting purchasers would notice. I did not want to record from cable so it was not an issue for me. However, our local Bet Buy salesman read that it could record HD from cable on the advertising and was told by management to sell that aspect of the units performance since there ar no PVR's or anything else that can do that. It came as a surprise to them and to my neighbor who purchased one expecting to be able to record HD from his comcast box. It is a pretty subtle advertising ploy if you ask me.

I just got off the phone with an LG CIC rep named Kristen. I really feel sorry for them since they really haven't been given much knowledge on the LST-3410a. At the same time, I expect a certain level of compentancy when calling about a product I spent money. This rep didn't know what a UPS was (other than the delivery service) or 1394. She did say she was fully trained on the product, however.

Anyway, I have a call into the corporate office in NJ. We'll see if I can get somewhere with this call.

If I had been in a better mood about this it would have been funny. The answer to my question, "Why does the unit hang when receiving bad PSIP data?" was "the unit may hang when receiving bad data". This was followed up with an round of "would you be pleased if a broadcast station could hang your receiver?". It went downhill from there...

My advice, if you get Kristen to answer your call, ask for someone else...(I assume that just using a first name is OK to warn people about who to talk with and who not to talk with).

I had been willing to live with a glitch here and there, but the last week has proved the 3410A unreliable. Aside from the Guide troubles noted previously, I have seen several repetitions of this:

I'll watch the unit and its output as a timer recording starts. The video and audio is perfect. Then a message box appears that says there is NO SIGNAL, and the unit shuts down.

Last night, CSI began to record properly, so I didn't pay any more attention --- until I noticed at 8:55 that the clock said 8:29. Yup, not one minute of CSI was on the drive after I cleared the lockup.

So now I not only have to worry about a recording starting properly, I would have to watch it every minute to see if it locks up. Sort of makes the timer useless, doesn't it?

Interestingly, I tried resetting everything with the demo pin as Kornerclub noted above, and it didn't work. You never know what this thing is going to do next.

Plus all the other woes have shown up. It just took my unit longer to get there. I guess I'm lucky that I got through the TV season without many troubles.

I'm giving LG a shot at replacing the unit, but my hopes are not high after seeing the repair/replacement reports here. I did make a note in my e-mail to the CSR, reminding him that he said I would receive a NEW unit in exchange.

I'll let y'all know what happens...

I have had broadcast data screw up the Hipix receiver a couple of times. Mostly in the bad old days when broadcasters would switch between SD and HD digital formats just before their HD started...

No, I was not happy. But this stuff happens, especially in those weird cases where the flaw in the data seems valid at first but makes the software do bad things. And these bugs are hard to find since the stream will probably never repeat with the same exact error.

While I would prefer that everything worked perfectly, I also recognise that this is not simple to achieve...

Cheers!
DAve.

PS. I understand that many people have issues way beyond what I describe. I have my fingers crossed that the mode we mostly use the unit in (HDD playback) will keep it alive and well.

I guess what is frustrating is that the station engineer offered to let LG know exactly what was being broadcast (the invalid PSIP data) but I can't find the right person at LG to listen. The ability to fix this bug is being handed to them but their poor customer "service" people are preventing it from getting through. That is not the hallmark of a high quality organization.

The funny thing is that for all the troubles I had with the Samsung T165, at least I could talk with someone very knowledgable about the product (one of the managers) and even the CSRs would get the right info back to me about 50% of the time. Can't even get there with LG, so far.

Originally posted by mkerdman
Todd

Exactly which hard drive did you put in there?

Are your program length and space remaining calculations still performed accuratly +/- by the software with the larger drive?

Murray,

I installed the maxtor 300GB drive immediately. It reported 31 hrs. 55 minutes available to record when initially installed and empty (no recordings). My experience at least has been that in adding up the shows I've recorded I can actually get around 37 hours of stuff recorded in high definition.


The space remaining is inaccurate in that you actually have more space than it reports, but it seems to get more accurate as you fill the drive up.

Regards,

Todd

Alk,

I called the New Jersey office early along in February. I talked to someone who claimed to know everything there was to know about everything LGE makes because he taught the classes for repair and support technicians. This guy didn't know his head from his a... He told me that they could he could do nothing, that the companies products all work perfectly and that there were no problems of any kind with the 3410. I hope you have better luck.

Art

Well, shortly after I was thought to be JFerg, he contacted me. He is an engineer for LG and he does still read this forum, and this thread in particular. So I would assume that, even though customer support type people seem to not know nor understand the problems you are talking about, people "in the know" do.

I just hope that LG can and will do something about the 3410A problems. It seems some manufacturers abandon their early troublesome models along with the poor folks who purchased them.

If firmware can fix the problems, we have a chance. If the bugs are built into the hardware, I'm afraid we'll lose out unless we can get our money back.

It's good that JFerg still reads this thread. At least our successes and failures should get back to the right people. But he can't change LG policy.

So far, LG is at least making a show of trying to resolve problems, although they are not admitting any widespread failures. Of course, we can't tell the extent of the problems with our small sample in this forum. The CSR I spoke with today sure sounded sincere when he said that he is in a position to monitor complaints on the 3410A and that he hasn't noticed anything out of the ordinary. But the tipoff to me as to the extent of the problems is that some folks are on their second and third units with the same troubles.

Also, where other have had CSR's try to troubleshoot the unit on the phone, this person simply asked me what the unit was doing wrong and immediately arranged for an exchange.

I wish we could get the inside word just in general as to the true attitude and efforts of LG regarding the problems with this DVR.

Philly,

I probably have spoken to more of the CSR's in Alabama than anyone. They are kind hearted folks from the area who had little knowledge of electronics before LGE moved into the area. One lady in particular did everything within her power to find out first, what was wrong with my unit, whether they were seeing similar problems with other units, (in my case she said that one of their tuners had a similar brightness variation problem through the VGA output) later denied by the fellow from NJ. She processed my exchange as efficiently as possible and personally intervened to determine where things were being delayed. Later another lady CSR showed the same caring interest. It is only when something real has to be done like shipping new units or tracing returned units or writing checks that LGE's true colors show. I believe LGE is taking it in the ear on this one. To have to wait 2 months for a refund, to have 9 unanswered calls, to not be able to diagnose and report on the similarity of observed faults is unconscienable. I do not like the idea of losing $1,000.00 but I am beginning to fear I may never see it again. I wonder if they do business this way in Korea. In a telephone survey paid for by LGE I was asked whether I would recmmend LGE to friends as a responsible and caring merchandiser. I told the caller that I would not answer the question for fear of becoming vulgar.

Just to add to this thread, I have, so far, none of these problems, yet. I got my unit a few months ago and have it hooked up to ota and cablevision. in ny. My guide is fine, except for the fact that no digital stations are included in the guide, but I have not signed up for io and still sub to analog. My unit is not in my video case and is out all by itself.

I am unsure if I am lucky, or I just got a trouble free unit... or trouble is aroud the corner. But so far, I am very pleased with the unit, but I am confused (and/or worried) about all the members problems in this thread.

I almost don't want to write this because it might scare some people. I think basically, the LST-3410a work great *if and only if* all the data coming from a digital station is good. You may also be able to include the Guide info in that list of data that has to be good.

Based on my Sunday experiment, if the LST-3410a *records* any station on its harddrive with bad data, the unit responds badly until that data is removed. I know that sounds wrong (why would the 3410a check old recordings?) but that is the only thing that seems consistent with what happened.

I've always wondered about hard drive initialization. What is that? The O/S is not stored on the hard drive, so what initialization has to take place? I think what is happening is that the 3410a re-reads start and stop markers (as well as PSIP data to find out the channel and format information) on the hard drive every time the unit is powered-on. If there are errors in those programs, those errors get re-read every time you boot. If there are enough of them, you can't get past initialization in time to start timer recordings.

So, bottom line, as long as every digital station you record from has valid data, the LST-3410a will work great. If however you manage to record a bad data, buyer beware. Basically the box works great as long as the firmware doesn't have to handle any exceptions. Once an exception occurs, the firmware has very few clues as to how to recover.

That *could* also be consistent with the reports of heat problems. The heat problems could make the tuner less sensitive leading to more bit errors. But, now I'm speculating...

Anyone care to make points for or against this theory?

I've had one on order from VE for about a month, and I just got an email saying they're shipping from the factory next week (May 17th) with firmware 1.14. The email said the firmware was supposed to fix a freeze-up problem. Yea...right.

We shall see what we shall see.

I will report any problems with my use of it here in the Philadelphia area. I plan to use HD OTA and basic cable without a box.

If problems persist even with this latest batch of units, then it would seem that LG is not really addressing the points made here. Perhaps we could collaborate on a letter or some collective communication outlining the observations made here. If it was signed by a bunch of us, it might be taken more seriously than the sporadic calls to CSRs.

One final question: Has anyone had a totally good experience with the 3410a after several months of use?

- John

Originally posted by John Don

One final question: Has anyone had a totally good experience with the 3410a after several months of use?

- John

I have.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Philly,

It is only when something real has to be done like shipping new units or tracing returned units or writing checks that LGE's true colors show. I believe LGE is taking it in the ear on this one.

We'll see how my exchange goes once I receive the shipping label. But I think LG does have a costly problem on their hands. There may be many units that work OK. Those people by and large don't bother to post in these forums. Perhaps there was something poor in the manufacture of the system boards or power supply and it's possible that a new batch will be OK. Whos knows. LG will never admit to any widespread problems.

All I know is that I will get either a dependable replacement or my money back. And you are absolutely right --- it's terrible that you don't have your refund yet.

Originally posted by spike4
Just to add to this thread, I have, so far, none of these problems, yet. I got my unit a few months ago and have it hooked up to ota and cablevision. in ny. My guide is fine, except for the fact that no digital stations are included in the guide, but I have not signed up for io and still sub to analog. My unit is not in my video case and is out all by itself.

I am unsure if I am lucky, or I just got a trouble free unit... or trouble is aroud the corner. But so far, I am very pleased with the unit, but I am confused (and/or worried) about all the members problems in this thread.

You may be in luck. I thought I had one of the better units, but it did show some signs of problems from week one. Then they seemed to get better, then went all the way bad. So if you've had no trouble, I hope it will stay that way.

Originally posted by John Don
I've had one on order from VE for about a month, and I just got an email saying they're shipping from the factory next week (May 17th) with firmware 1.14. The email said the firmware was supposed to fix a freeze-up problem. Yea...right.

This may be good timing for me and my exchange. Our main hope appears to be that many of the early units had poor workmanship or a manufacturing problem and that the new batch will perform properly.

As far as the new firmware, I think there was at least one report here that it did not solve the problems.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
I have.

Can you tell us if your sources have made any comment about the discrete power code turning the unit off during a timer recording? Or if that is a function of hardware or firmware?

Does LG really listen to these comments/complaints?

I would think that would be a software thing. It is not a problem for me as I have my Harmony Remote set to not turn off the 3410 whenever I switch modes.

I guess I am lucky. My unit works great. I keep her cool and I guess the guide data is accurate since it has not missed any OTA scheduled recordings.

alk3997,

I think you are right in your assesment. My unit worked great for a month and then total H.S. for 2 weeks. It's been perfect again for over a month. I can't imagine how this thing fixed itself. Therefore it must be getting better(or adequate) information.

Multiple reports by users of failures on 2 or more units having basically the exact same problems strongly suggests psip related issues.

It would seem that if the stations are sending good stuff, then the 3410a works great.

Lew

Originally posted by PhillyC
This may be good timing for me and my exchange. Our main hope appears to be that many of the early units had poor workmanship or a manufacturing problem and that the new batch will perform properly.

As far as the new firmware, I think there was at least one report here that it did not solve the problems.

I received my "updated" unit back from LG on Friday. It now has the 1.14 firmware rather than the 1.12. It has NOT CORRECTED the problem. It failed to record the first program I tried to record off the guide. It has also locked up twice and required power to be disconnected to restore operation. Subsequently it has seemed to work ok, but I will be calling LG on Monday about this continued problem.

Hummm...I thought the latest firmware was 1.14. I was told the new units shipping next week will have 1.14.

Does anyone else have a 2.xx version of firmware? It would be interesting to know what LG is "fixing" with these updates, if not the PSIP or freezing problems.

- John

Originally posted by John Don
Hummm...I thought the latest firmware was 1.14. I was told the new units shipping next week will have 1.14.

Does anyone else have a 2.xx version of firmware? It would be interesting to know what LG is "fixing" with these updates, if not the PSIP or freezing problems.

- John

I think Ben just made a typo. the firmware version is 1.14 (not 2.14). The 1.14 update was supose to issue picture freezing during playback issues. There is not much that can be done for bad PSIP data, except keep buggin the station's engineer who is "playing" with PSIP.

I'm not depending on the new firmware, just hoping that something may have been corrected in the manufacturing of the DVR or the parts that are used.

Ben, is there a sticker or any other sign that your replacement is a refurbished unit? Or does it appear to be a new one?

BTW, does LG want you to return all accessories for the exchange, or just the unit itself?

BTW, does LG want you to return all accessories for the exchange, or just the unit itself?

You better return every last piece of wire and paper. They ask for everything explicitly.

fwiw: drag and play revisited.

Page 51 of the manual: "During playback, to skip over fixed time intervals, use drag and play."

What is this "fixed time interval"?

Playing with this feature on my unit gives the folling results:

30 minute recording, 1 click equals 1 minute

60 minute recording, 1 click equals 2 minutes

90 minute recording, 1 click equals 3 minutes

120 minute recording, 1 click equals 4 minutes

I hope some may find this information usefull if not redundant.

Lew

Originally posted by John Don
Hummm...I thought the latest firmware was 1.14. I was told the new units shipping next week will have 1.14.

Does anyone else have a 2.xx version of firmware? It would be interesting to know what LG is "fixing" with these updates, if not the PSIP or freezing problems.

- John

Sorry, I typed in the wrong number from memory. (I have corrected my post) My replacement unit has the 1.14 firmware, an "upgrade" from 1.12. After a couple of glitches, it has worked fine for the next 2 days, but I'm still not confident that the problems have been fixed.

Originally posted by PhillyC
I'm not depending on the new firmware, just hoping that something may have been corrected in the manufacturing of the DVR or the parts that are used.

Ben, is there a sticker or any other sign that your replacement is a refurbished unit? Or does it appear to be a new one?

BTW, does LG want you to return all accessories for the exchange, or just the unit itself?

The repacement was not a new one. It is the same serial number as the one I had sent them. They just "updated" the firmware, and there is a little sticker on the rear that has 1.14 written on it. Everything I had on the hard disk had been erased as a part of this exchange.

Since this was an exchange, they only wanted me to send in the unit - no accessories. However, I'm sure that if it were to be sent back for a refund, they will want everything.

Kornerklub and Ben,

Thanks for the clarification on the firmware numbers.

Ok, so if the problem stems from bad PSIP data coming from the broadcasters and copied to the hard drive, can we simply identify the program with the bad data, and erase it? Or is it more complicated than that?

Perhaps we can document a consistant "work around" for rebooting and removing bad data after a lockup.

Or get LG to pay all of the beta testers here.

- John

Well, this "bad PSIP data" problem may exist, but my troubles are different. In fact, my drive is now empty and the DVR has gone competely nuts.

If I go into the guide, I get either a blank screen (except for the live channel in the upper left corner) or the guide is visible but flashes like a strobe light. Then most of the time it locks up and the only way to clear it is to unplug it for more than an hour.

Therefore, I can no longer set any timer recording. The only thing I can do is watch live, or record manually (which also fails sometimes).

There should be an option to just turn off the *#%@#$ guide completely...

Have you tried plugging in the "demo" pin and going back through the initial setup sequence? It may be grasping at straws, but the machine definitely behaves differently when that pin is inserted.

Originally posted by Stanton
Have you tried plugging in the "demo" pin and going back through the initial setup sequence? It may be grasping at straws, but the machine definitely behaves differently when that pin is inserted.

Thanks, but I tried that. The demo pin has no effect. This unit is a mess!

If I go into the guide, I get either a blank screen (except for the live channel in the upper left corner) or the guide is visible but flashes like a strobe light. Then most of the time it locks up and the only way to clear it is to unplug it for more than an hour.

I returned my unit for an exchange because of this very problem your experiencing. Sometimes I was able to get the guide to stabilize and show up by changing the format from 720p to 480p or 480i. However, this "trick" stopped working after a while also.

And by the way ... the replacement unit I received Monday, is even worse! The unit won't download any guide data, and it locks up every time I try to power it up. At least the unit I sent in was able to download the guide data -- I just couldn't get it to show up on the screen.

I don't want a refund 'cause I love what this machine can do when it is able to do it. I just want a unit that works! Oh well. Time to call LG ... again. :rolleyes:

My turn to add a data point to this thread...

I've had my unit for a couple of months now, connected via OTA only, and everything was great for the first month. I experienced none of the issues that have been reported here. Then I made my first attempt to record a show, NYPD Blue, and that's when the problems started. Since then 99% of the time it locks up at "HELLO". The few times it makes it past "HELLO", it locks up with the Program Guide displayed. There is no response from the buttons on the front of the unit or the remote. Basically all I can do is turn it off and back on. I even pulled it from my rack and went back to my Samsung SRT-151 for a week. When I plugged it back in last nite, it showed the correct time and started downloading new guide data. I turned it on and it locked up on "HELLO" again so I unplugged it and inserted the demo pin, turned it back on and it still locks up on "HELLO", only now I've lost the time display. I can't even get to the point where I can delete the recorded show to see if that is what is causing the problem.

I call LG today and explain the situation to "Roger". I tell him that I've heard that they have a firmware upgrade that will fix this issue. He says he will check with someone else and let me know. He comes back online and tell me that there is a firmware upgrade but that it only fixes the lockup issue that occurs when watching shows that have been recorded. (huh?) He says that they need to send me a new unit so he takes my information and tells me that all he needs from me is the unit itself and a copy of the receipt and I'm to keep the remote, manual, and all the cables. I ask him 2 more times if I will be getting a new unit or refurb and he says no doubt that I will be receiving a new unit. He says that the turnaround is usually 4 to 6 weeks but since I live in Atlanta it should go alot quicker.

That's about it in a nutshell. I really like the unit and I want it to work as advertized. The picture quality appears to me to be a tad better than what I'm seeing on my Samsung unit and my Motorola cable stb and I love the amount of information you get from the front display and the configuration options available.

-Skip

Wow. 4-6 weeks? "Jeremy" told me they would send a new unit immediately upon receiving mine. Of course, I don't know when I'll get the shipping info from LG.

Hello All,

Update on my LG box. I came home Wed after not being home for
2 days and found the following problems.

1. Box would not boot up, so i unplugged and replugged
2. It boot up and I checked the program list and it did not record
24 on Tue.
3. It did record CSI on Mon but the record time was 660 minutes and
the drive was full, I only set it to 1 hour CSI record.

The unit works fine when I'm home but over the last 2 weeks I have
had problems when I'm gone from the house.

But, here is what I think may have occurred, My cooling fan is only on
when the AMP is turned on, it does blow on the LG box, but not
24 by 7. I checked the box and it was very warm and still off in stand by.
I line in Texas and it is hot down here and when I'm not home the AC
is turned up and also the LG is in a glass in closed cabinet. Good room
in side but not much air moving over the units without the fan. I think
that It start to record and over heated and did not power down until
the disk was full.

At this point I have changed the set plug to be on 24 by 7, I will
also be buying a therm fan for the LG box AMP and the back of the
cabinet.

I'll let you know
Mike

Can you post a picture of your cabinet? I have mine in a glass cabinet as well, and while it gets hot when the HD is on, it always cools down when off. In addition, I don't have a lot of space around it and I don't have external fans.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res1tsng/Stanton1.htm

I would estimate my HD use at <5 hrs per week; what is yours? I just can't figure out the difference in heat problems (how hot DOES your house get--I live in Texas as well).

A Quick Question that I am hoping to get some feedback with, I have had my 3410 for about a week and no real problems to speak of other than this one issue and I am not sure if anyone else may have encountered it.

I am able to record in HD just fine from all of my HD channels except for my Fox affiliate. If I am viewing the channel the signal is fine and has good strength, however if it try to record it with the 3410, thru time shift, guide settings etc. the recording never actually does anything. I get either the signal goes to crap, or the signal stays fine if i monitor but say I am time shifting I will watch for about 10 min and have clear signal but I hit stop and it says that the recording must be longer than 10 sec. Counters for time never registers anything. Anybody encountered this is it something with Fox, I have access to 2 different fox affiliates and I have the same problem with both of them.

Any opinions? My first unit had been gradually freezing up showing a digitized picture or totally green screen that would require shutting off and on a few times before clearing up and respond to the remote. I was approaching the 90 day warranty and called LG and they agreed to a swap. I just got the second unit, a refurb since it was in a nondescript brown box without any accesories or instructions and it won't even turn on with the front power button or from the remote.

I love the hd ota with hdd and the ability to have my analog cable record onto the hdd also, but at $999 and now a second unit that you think they would have tried out before packing it off makes me uncomfortable keeping either the first one since the freeze ups are almost at every viewing and the second one completely dead.

Would you send back both units for a refund and wait until the technology is less glitchy, or send back the 2nd unit trusting them to send a glitch free unit?

joe

jlanzy,

I'm waiting to exchange mine. They promised me a new unit (ha!), but if I continue to have trouble, I may just keep exchanging them until fall, when Sony will have two DVR's. I do love the features on this thing, but obviously it needs to actually WORK.

BTW, how long long did it take LG to send you shipping info for return of your unit? It's been eight days since I talked with them, and I've received nothing.

PhillyC

I called LG told them the problem and they just said send it back. I asked if they could send a replacement and I'd send mine when I got the replacement unit. I faxed them my credit card number and serial unit # with the understanding if they didn't get mine 10 days after reviving the replacement they would charge me for the 2nd unit. It took 3 weeks to get the replacement.

I was a little dismayed at seeing a refurb as my replacement and VERY dismayed when it wouldn't even power on.

Today I called LG about the DOA replacement and the rep had the cojones to say send back my original unit, keep the completely dead one, and we would start all over!! I said that made no sense at all to keep a dead unit and give you a partially functioning one. The rep then suggested I call monday to talk to someone higher up the chain. I just hope I can keep a civil tongue when I call monday.

I will probably ask for a refund and be done with this whole problem regardless how much this unit COULD offer and either wait for new offerings or purchase new again from somewhere and risk it again.
joe

I just modded mine to battle the heat problem. I added a 40x10 Spire ball bearing fan to the location intended for a fan on the back. I attached it with rubber cement on the inside. I powered it with a 3 wire to 4 wire converter that parallels it off the hard drive. I also added a Zalman Fan Mate 1 to allow me to slow the fan down to make it silent.

I am amazed at how warm the air is that is being pushed out of this STB. The heat seems to be mostly generated by the power supply and yet there are no vents over them. The vent design seems consistent with a fan cooled unit and not a convection cooled one. Note lack of vents over the left side where the fan should be.

I have also placed about 1/8" tall spacers below the feet to improve air flow from below. I have had no problems with my new unit since I have payed more attention to heat dissipation.

Originally posted by Stanton
Can you post a picture of your cabinet? I have mine in a glass cabinet as well, and while it gets hot when the HD is on, it always cools down when off. In addition, I don't have a lot of space around it and I don't have external fans.

http://mysite.verizon.net/res1tsng/Stanton1.htm

I would estimate my HD use at <5 hrs per week; what is yours? I just can't figure out the difference in heat problems (how hot DOES your house get--I live in Texas as well).

Sure can, but I can tell from your picture that I have much more room
around the LG box then you have. Does yours work 100% of the time
and do you have any cooling fans on it?

I purchased 2 cooling fans with thermostats from ebay to be used 24x7
on this unit. Over the past weekend the unit worked 100% of the time.
I was home also. I record about 2 hours each day when not home and use the unit when home about 4 hours a day average.

Originally posted by umr
I have also placed about 1/8" tall spacers below the feet to improve air flow from below. I have had no problems with my new unit since I have payed more attention to heat dissipation.

Done the same but with 1/4" tall spacers.

Originally posted by mstanl
Sure can, but I can tell from your picture that I have much more room
around the LG box then you have. Does yours work 100% of the time
and do you have any cooling fans on it?

I purchased 2 cooling fans with thermostats from ebay to be used 24x7
on this unit. Over the past weekend the unit worked 100% of the time.
I was home also. I record about 2 hours each day when not home and use the unit when home about 4 hours a day average.

Mine works 100% of the time with NO cooling fans. However, I sometimes use mine in a week the amount you use yours in a day (with the exception of the CBS mini-series on this week). I have a Sony HD-100 that basically stays on 24/7 (it's the one on top of the HDTV in the picture). I'll probably increase the shelf space if I ever move the the HD-100 upstairs, but that won't be for at least a year (waiting for a 1920x1080 40" LCD monitor).

Spoke with LG today about the refurb swap unit sent that wouldn't power on at all. I asked if I sent my original back with the identified problems, mainly getting a green screen or digitized image without audio and no response to remote or front panel both at start up intermittently as well as after viewing live or recorded for a while as well as occasionally when pushing the program list button on the remote I get a pop up on the screen saying 'HDD is not detected, call the service center' which after a power on/off then is able to show my recorded programs, if I could get my repaired unit back. The service rep said they can't send back my original unit because some repairs have to be done in Korea. I then asked can I get a new unit, and they said no as long as they have refurbished ones. I asked can I just get a refund and the answer was no. So now I'm waiting for another refurb unit after they pick up the DOA replacement unit today. I have 10 days to get the original back to them when I receive the replacement before they charge me and you bet I will test the refurb every hour I'm home for a few days to see if that unit is defective also before sending them my original.
joe

I would not put up with some of the replies from customer service. If I were you, I would demand to go higher up on their chain of command.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
I would not put up with some of the replies from customer service. If I were you, I would demand to go higher up on their chain of command.

I would be careful with how pushy you get. The written warranty on this unit is pretty poor. It appears to me that they are not violating the terms of the agreement.

Here is the warranty:

This LG Electronics product will be repaired or replaced, at LG’s option, if it proves to be defective in material or
workmanship, under normal use, during the warranty period (“Warranty Period”) listed below, effective from the date
(“Date of Purchase”) of original consumer purchase of the product. This warranty is good only to the original purchaser
of the product and effective only when used in the United States, excluding U.S. Territories.
THIS WARRANTY IS IN LIEU OF ANY OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION,
ANY WARRANTY OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. TO THE EXTENT ANY IMPLIED
WARRANTY IS REQUIRED BY LAW, IT IS LIMITED IN DURATION TO THE EXPRESS WARRANTY PERIOD ABOVE. LG
ELECTRONICS WILL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, INDIRECT, SPECIAL OR PUNITIVE
DAMAGES OF ANY NATURE, EVEN IF ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES, INCLUDING WITHOUT
LIMITATION, LOST REVENUES OR PROFITS, LOST OR CORRUPTED PROGRAMMING OR DATA, OR ANY OTHER
DAMAGE WHETHER BASED IN CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of
incidental or consequential damages or limitation on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above exclusion or limitation may
not apply to you. This warranty gives you specific legal rights and you may also have other rights that may vary from state to state.
THIS LIMITED WARRANTY DOES NOT APPLY TO:
z Damages or operating problems that result from shipping, installation, adjustment of user controls, calibration,
maintenance or failure to maintain, or separate system components; and
z Damages or operating problems that result from normal wear and tear, misuse, abuse, operation outside environmental
specifications or contrary to the requirements or precautions in the Operating Guide, accident, lightning
strikes or other natural causes, unauthorized modification or alteration, incorrect electrical current or voltage,
reception problem caused by inadequate home antenna or faulty antenna connections, computer software, institutional
or commercial use, or other causes not arising out of defect in material or workmanship.
Therefore, the cost of repair or replacement of such defective product shall be borne by the

WARRANTY PERIOD:
LABOR: 90 days from the Date of Purchase.
PARTS: One Year from the Date of Purchase.
* Parts replaced are warranted for the remaining portion
of the original warranty period.

Well, I guess it doesn't technically say they will replace it with a working unit. :rolleyes:

My point is that it appears that LG is having so sort of issues with the number of people here that have gotten replacement units that did not work as well as their original unit.

I am just glad mine is still flawless.

KornerKlub,

They should eventually supply a working unit, but there is no time requirement or limit on the number of attempts. Unless, they can delay it beyond 90 days or a year. Then it looks like they could drop us in the cold.

I believe they have a design bust with heat dissipation.

Just when you think you've heard everything...

I called LG again today because my return shipping labels have not arrived in the ten days since my first call. This CSR said I would get a refurb unit in exchange. She then connected me with the person I spoke to ten days ago.

That guy said my labels were delayed because someone decided I should pay $89.00 for shipping. He then said not to worry and that he would make sure I get the labels in a few days.

And now for the kicker: I asked him why he told me the exchange unit would be NEW, when it will really be a REFURB. The answer (insert drum roll): Some customers don't understand LG's definition of "refurbished".

Yes, I'm really looking forward to the coming warranty/exchange process with LG.

PhillyC,

They lost the first fax I sent them for my return. The whole process took about a month in my case.

I hope this is not what we have to look forward to.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=599038&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1

Originally posted by umr
I hope this is not what we have to look forward to.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=599038&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1

Gee, great. That's just the way the warranty reads.

But your replacement unit still works as long as it has the original drive in it?

Yes mine is working with the original drive. I also added a fan for insurance. The lack of ventilation over the power supply looks like a mistake to me.

Here is another happy Zenith/LG customer.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=597632&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1

Note how Zenith/LG vented the HD-SAT520.

http://www.heavenlyhometheater.com/Logos/Products/Zenith/HDSAT520_F.gif

Compare that to your LST-3410A.

Originally posted by umr
I hope this is not what we have to look forward to.

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=599038&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=365&fpart=1


Whoa, being a former servicer, I fully understand the need for out-of-warranty charges. After making a living on out-of-warranty charges for repairs, I also understand that warranty work MUST be done correctly.

However, if we are talking about heat problems on units that have had hard drives swapped out.... that is a different story. Remember the "stock" hard drive is not a PC model. It is designed to run quieter and COOLER.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
...However, if we are talking about heat problems on units that have had hard drives swapped out.... that is a different story. Remember the "stock" hard drive is not a PC model. It is designed to run quieter and COOLER.

Even my stock drive does not run cool in that box. The fan dumps hotter air on this unit than my Dish 501 for example.

Originally posted by umr
Note how Zenith/LG vented the HD-SAT520.

http://www.heavenlyhometheater.com/Logos/Products/Zenith/HDSAT520_F.gif

Compare that to your LST-3410A.

Actually not much is different if you think about it. The pictured model has vents over the tuners. The D* tuner is on one side and the ATSC tuner is on the other. the 3410 has almost the same abount of vents over the ATSC tuner section.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Actually not much is different if you think about it. The pictured model has vents over the tuners. The D* tuner is on one side and the ATSC tuner is on the other. the 3410 has almost the same abount of vents over the ATSC tuner section.

I know, but the power supply gets hot enough to burn you without the vents over it. I did not sense much heat from the tuner,

Originally posted by umr
Even my stock drive does not run cool in that box. The fan dumps hotter air on this unit than my Dish 501 for example.

Odd, mine stays rather cool. Slightly warm if running all day. But I have mine out in the open in a Bell'O style rack.

Mine is in the open as well. Let it record for a few hours. Then open it up and see how hot the power supply is.

Has anyone upgraded their 3410 hard drive, and, installed a hard drive cooler at the same time?

Originally posted by mkerdman
Has anyone upgraded their 3410 hard drive, and, installed a hard drive cooler at the same time?

Yes.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3670133#post3670133

Originally posted by bwiklem
Just added a hard drive cooling kit (large heat sink and two small fans) to my 3410a. I added a 250GB HD. Hope this addresses the heat issue. I notice as the unit gets very warm, more prone to digital blocking/breaking up of the image.

bwiklem

What hard drive cooler did you use, and, how has it and the 250GB HDD worked out?

Originally posted by mkerdman
bwiklem

What hard drive cooler did you use, and, how has it and the 250GB HDD worked out?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3753069#post3753069

My 3410 was purchased in February, and seems not to have been one of the units with problems. However, it now doesn't shut off after it stops recording. I've had no luck finding a CSR that knows anything, and they won't let me talk to John Ferguson. It's not even clear that it's designed to shut off, but it seems to me that it did when new. Maybe the warmer weather has caused the problem. Anyone else?

Not shutting off after recording is a hit and miss thing; more often than not, it DOES shut off. Compared to what else could happen, I don't see it as a big deal. It's not like it keeps recording of misses the next one.

Hi All,

Last night I was home and I let the unit record CSI, It was
already on when CSI came on, so it just when to that station
and started to record. I was home AC on and I set up 2 cooling fans I recived from ebay today. This unit is on a power line by its self, plugged into to the wall by its self also. Well I check the unit at 10:10 and discovered that the time was set to 9:21 and not moving, I watch it for a few minutes, and no clock change. It still had the record light on. Well I tried to power it off, exit out ect... and no control would work. I was locked up good, so I unplugged it and started it back up again, well no clock reading "--:--". I set the clock and check the TV guide and no information was found and no record shows were set any more. It also did not record the program or save it to disk. This was not an over heading problem. But I see a problem each Monday night over the last 3 weeks now.

I checked the unit this am and it has load 4 days of the TV Guide out so far. I set it to record every other show today to see what kind of problems with may have, I'll let you know.

Also, since I received a replacement unit I'll post the old units SN # and if I return this I'll post it also so maybe we can track the returned unit as they are maybe resent back out as refbr. units.

Thanks
Mike

OK, over night I recorded 1 half hour show but this am I was not able to turn the unit on, locked up again. Had to unplug and replug in. I'm calling LG today.

But I found another option last night. If you timeshift a program you can change the station while still in timeshift mode. This means that you can start a timeshift station UPN at 7:00 pm, pause it and then start watching it at 7:25pm. At 8:00pm you can change the station to say FOX and continue to watch the UPN program until 8:25 and then it will play the start program from FOX at that point. This is cool, I like the way this works.


Thanks
Mike

mstanl,

I am in Houston as well. Did you change out your HD?

Originally posted by umr
mstanl,

I am in Houston as well. Did you change out your HD?


NO, no need yet, unit only works for less then a week at a time.

Mike

It sounds like you added the fans after having problems. Is that true?

I am beginning to think that this thermal problem results in memory problems that may not be recoverable becasue LG is not expecting an error of that type.

Originally posted by umr
It sounds like you added the fans after having problems. Is that true?

I am beginning to think that this thermal problem results in memory problems that may not be recoverable becasue LG is not expecting an error of that type.

I very much think you are correct!!!!!!!!!!!!

OK, you maybe correct, I did not turn the fans on 7*24 until after the fact the first time. I now have 2 PC case fans running 7*24. Before I only had the fans running when the AMP was on. I then came to understand that it may over heat when it records a show when I'm not home.

I called LG and they are sending me a replacemenet.

Going to take a few weeks to receive the replacement.

Thanks

mstanl,

You can automate the fan by implementing it like I suggested above. Mine is powered off the same circuit as the HD. It runs anytime the HD is powered on. Which is anytime the STB is on. It does not run when the STB is in standby. The small fan I am using also draws very little power (~ 50 mA) and should not put any stress on the system.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3832290#post3832290

umr,

I know that 7*24 is over kill, and once its solves the problem I would like to do as you did. How long has your STB been working for now? And have you had any problems with the current one? And is this your 2nd unit?

I'm moving on to my 3rd one, thats why it will have 7*24 fans to start with, maybe after 6 months or so I will be able to trust it.

It's bad when I still need to set a VCR to record becage I can not trust the LG box.

Thanks

mstanl,

I think my second unit has been working about a month. I had a few problems with it when I had a different drive in it for about 30 minutes, but they were not the normal ones you are seeing that appear to be guide related.

I have had no guide problems with this unit and only one recording has failed. I am hoping the fan solves my problems. It probably will take another month to be sure.

Originally posted by umr
I just modded mine to battle the heat problem. I added a 40x10 Spire ball bearing fan to the location intended for a fan on the back. I attached it with rubber cement on the inside. I powered it with a 3 wire to 4 wire converter that parallels it off the hard drive. I also added a Zalman Fan Mate 1 to allow me to slow the fan down to make it silent.

I am amazed at how warm the air is that is being pushed out of this STB. The heat seems to be mostly generated by the power supply and yet there are no vents over them. The vent design seems consistent with a fan cooled unit and not a convection cooled one. Note lack of vents over the left side where the fan should be.

I have also placed about 1/8" tall spacers below the feet to improve air flow from below. I have had no problems with my new unit since I have payed more attention to heat dissipation.

umr,

Which of these fans are best for the task?

http://www.kdcomputers.com/eui/prime/browse/component/60.htm

I take you are using this as an exhaust fan- is that correct?

I would use a 40 mm three wire fan and none of the ones in your list. It is configured as an exhaust fan. Here is what I am using.

http://www.coolerguys.com/yhst-24067115789173/840556017813.html

http://store.coolerguys.com/840556016250.html

http://store.coolerguys.com/840556000020.html

Originally posted by umr
I would use a 40 mm three wire fan and none of the ones in your list. It is configured as an exhaust fan. Here is what I am using.

http://www.coolerguys.com/yhst-24067115789173/840556017813.html

http://store.coolerguys.com/840556016250.html

http://store.coolerguys.com/840556000020.html

umr,


Thanks!

I am using a Cool-It2 to force cool air into the 3410, and, may also use your exhaust fan idea as well.

http://www.activethermal.com/Cool-It_II.htm

At some point I intend to put a Maxtor 300GB-5400RPM hard drive in there.

I have had zero problems up to now except for some glitches on playback which I am not entirtely sure are not reception issues on CBS-DT.

I have always recieved Guide data and never missed a recording.

Murray

I got my LG today. If my memory is corect I read in the cable tv thread you also have a SA3250 box like myself. Im with Time warner. I cannot get the LG to take the firewire from the 3250. Have you had any luck.

Thansk!

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Murray

I got my LG today. If my memory is corect I read in the cable tv thread you also have a SA3250 box like myself. Im with Time warner. I cannot get the LG to take the firewire from the 3250. Have you had any luck.

Thansk!

Alan

The LG 3410 will only accept a direct connection from (most) DVHS decks, which must not be daisy chained with anything else 1394 such as 169Time-AVX1 equipment.

It will not accept or display any FireWire cable STB, PC, or any other Fire Wire device, except a few DV camcorders from Sony. YMMV only on other camcorders.

Plugging a direct FireWire cable from your 30K/40K into either of the 1394 ports on the rear of the 3410 and pressing "1394" on the remote will get you a DVHS GUI control OSD.

It plays all D-Theater and 169Time tapes- except I have glitching with DTC100 made HBOHD (only). Dish 6000/169Time works with the 3410 on all recordings.

I have a weird issue it seems.

When I play back HBO content recorded off Dish in the "good old days", i see unusual panning as though the LG is not playing the fields back in the right order. It seems to judder on the pans...

Does anyone else see this? I only see this issue on HBO stuff - have not tried Sho yet. Don't see it on the network stuff.

Perhaps it is a artifact of the 24 fps with pulldown flag MPEG streams from HBO?

Cheers!
DAve.

When I use either VCR+ or the Guide to record, if I schedule 2 programs in sequence one on cable the other on another channel OTA, either the first or second scheduled program will only be recorded for 2 minutes and the other one for the full time, usually one hour. It is not consistent of either the first or second program or cable or OTA. Anyone have this problem and able to record 2 different channels in back to back time slots from cable to OTA or vice versa?
joe

Well, I enjoyed it it for three days.

My "new" 3410a that arrived last Friday, after about a month and an half wait. It had about 5 layers of tape on the box, and all the accessories were taped closed. Maybe that's normal, but It seemed like a used unit to me.

I set it up on Monday using the DVI connection to my HD1000 projector. Great picture! Recorded Leno Monday and Tuesday, but tonight I tried to record a 1 hour show scheduled through the guide. When I got home to watch it, the program list froze up. Powered it off and back on, and it said it could not see the HD. I initialized the HD from the menu, no message or confirmation of anything happening. Cycled power again and went back to program list. It said HD recovery failed.

I think someone else had a similar problem, but I can't find the message.

This is so unprofessional. I wish LG would just admit these problems, and stop shipping to new customers until they fix this thing. :(

I love my LG phone!

- John

Hate to ask again but has anyone received a refund from LGE? I mean real money in your hands. I sent my second one back for a refund in early April and I'm still waiting. This company should be banned from doing business in the US.

Originally posted by John Don
Well, I enjoyed it it for three days.

Powered it off and back on, and it said it could not see the HD. I initialized the HD from the menu, no message or confirmation of anything happening. Cycled power again and went back to program list. It said HD recovery failed.

I think someone else had a similar problem, but I can't find the message.

- John

John,

That is what my first unit did, it lost the HD and I could get it back.

SN# ended with 0050
Hope that you did not get that one.

Mstanl

Art,

I called them this morning and everything is there that they need. They said I should receive my refund in 10 to 14 days from now. I will call them next week to see if my refund has been sent out. What do they say to you when you talk to them ?

Turns out that if the box doesn't turn off after a recording, it doesn't pick up guide info. since this only happens when it's off. That's usually not a problem, unless one is gone long enough that a scheduled program isn't recorded because there's no guide info.

Originally posted by jrfsu1
Art,

I called them this morning and everything is there that they need. They said I should receive my refund in 10 to 14 days from now. I will call them next week to see if my refund has been sent out. What do they say to you when you talk to them ?

Mine was returned April 9. They received it April 16,2004. I was told the check would go out yesterday May 26. I checked today May 27 to verify. After 1 hour and 15 minutes in which I refused to get off the line, they connected me with Barbara who said that although all my documentation was in order she had never received an authorization to request a refund check be cut by the folks in New Jersey. She could not explain why, it just did not happen. As usual she apologized and said she would request that a check be sent out but that could not happen until June 10 at the earliest because that is when New Jersey cuts checks. I will not get it before June 17 because after the checks are cut they are sent to Alabama where they send them out to the customers. What a crock of SHI........ LGE has to be the worse of the worse. In over 40 years of buying audio and video equipment I have never had to put up with crap like this. I suggest no one buy one of these.

Originally posted by MrHifi
... I suggest no one buy one of these.

Unless you really want the features/flaws this STB has and are willing to deal with LG, software, heat dissipation and the possible total loss of the purchase price if it fails slowly.

Not that I'm suggesting anything, but...

The President and CEO of LG Electronics USA, Inc. is Michael Ahn. Mr. Ahn's office can be reached at 201-816-2000. Press 0 during normal business hours to reach the company operator. If one wanted to talk to Mr. Ahn, one would then ask for Mr. Ahn's office. I'm sure you would not get Mr. Ahn but one of his assistants. The rest would be up to whoever called...

Mr. Ahn joined LG Electronics in 1976 and was also with Zenith from 1996-98. He was appointed to his new position last January.

Andy,

I appreciate the information and will pursue it in the morning. When i emailed the company, I received a bunch of platitudes about what a great company LGE is. They promised to call me but nevr did call, ever. I will try. Thanks again. i have also drafted a letter to my Congressman and Senator about looking into LGE's failure to return money within the 30 days prescribed by law. They must eithet refund or ask for a delay. This is way out of control. Faulty, untested product, shady business practices, downright lies. I still have not heard from anyone wha actually received a check.

Art, I think the Federal Trade Commission or a state's attorney general would be more likely to get involved than a congressman...(just my 2 cents)

I still think that a collective effort of some kind signed by a number of us could get some attention. We are a knowledgeable representation of their prime customer base for this type of product. We are "early adopters" who can influence other likely customers, not only via this board but in our occupations and associations.

With all of the hoop-la, awards, and positive press that LG got at CES, it's clear thy are falling flat out of the gate on what should be their first flagship product in HDTV STBs. I have to believe they have the engineering talent to fix this, but it seems that the failures are in QC, Customer service and internal management. Maybe it's even more systemic.

Perhaps better than getting the FTC involved, might be to have this exposed in some of the trade press.

Just getting someone to dialog with us here would be a good start.

Any other thoughts on a collective effort?

- John

I spent 29 years in the Federal government 26 of those in a regulatory agency. The pressure from a congressman or a Senator is sometimes the only thing that gets things moving. The trick is getting the S or C to think there is something in it for him. I will be sending copies to the FTC. Thanks again for your advice. Ill try Andy's recommendation in the morning.

It continues to amaze me how people who read the facts in this thread still go out and buy one only to learn what the rest of us learned months ago.

Originally posted by MrHifi
It continues to amaze me how people who read the facts in this thread still go out and buy one only to learn what the rest of us learned months ago.

If you're referring to folks like me Art, I've been waiting 6 months for this product, holding off because of this discussion. I just got tired of waiting and felt it might be worth the risk now. A few have had a good experience, and I thought LG must be close to a fix, with the new firmware and all. And perhaps I found it hard to believe that the company was this inept in so many areas.

And, well this may sound a bit masochistic, but I kind of enjoy being on "the bleeding edge" of technology -- even if I lose the money, I will have learned a lot.

Maybe I feel a bit like Slim Pickins riding that A-Bomb with a "Yeee Haaa" at the end of Dr. Strangelove.

But we'll survive this. :p

Hi Five HiFi,
- John

John,

I wish you best of luck with your 3410. However, some electronic devices can not and do not meet their designer's objectives when they are subjected to "real world" conditions. In thiss instance, erroneous PSIP information, difficult reception issues, and temperature instability have combined in such a way as to make the device almost impossible to use. Even when it works, it is unrealiable. When I had my 2 units, I always ran a backup VCR to catch shows I wanted to watch. At least 20% of the time, I wound up watching the backup.

It is fulfilling being on the "bleeding edge" of the technological frontier and I have spent many years donating blood in excange for the "wow" factor. In this case, the device just does not work. If you can not record or it burns up without a dedicated external fan, it indicates to me that the device was not tested properly and released too soon. I find it interesting that no one else has released a product like this anywhere. Normally there would be several competing models from various manufacturers making use of the same technology.

Good luck anyway. I hope your unit works flawlessly. I mean it and hope you understand that I am not trivializing your purchase.

Also note, I must be holding my mouth the right way or something, because my unit has been working without problems. Don't think that everyone is having issues. Those of us that are using this product without problems, are watching it instead of posting often.

Keep in mind, sometimes forums like this are the exact opposite of "If you do not have something nice to say, do not say anything". You only hear about problems.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MrHifi
it indicates to me that the device was not tested properly and released too soon. I find it interesting that no one else has released a product like this anywhere. Normally there would be several competing models from various manufacturers making use of the same technology. [/QUOTE

Thanks Art,

Your assessment makes sense. Perhaps LG was over zealous in trying to get a jump on the HD-PVR market before Tivo.

Anyway, last night my 3410 resurrected! :p Although it had said the HD format failed, it started recording Leno, then I switched it over to the Frontline piece on the Music business. This morning the recording plays back beautifully. I really like this thing when it works, but I'm not holding my breath.

Cheers,
- John

Originally posted by MrHifi
John,

I wish you best of luck with your 3410. However, some electronic devices can not and do not meet their designer's objectives when they are subjected to "real world" conditions. In thiss instance, erroneous PSIP information, difficult reception issues, and temperature instability have combined in such a way as to make the device almost impossible to use. Even when it works, it is unrealiable. When I had my 2 units, I always ran a backup VCR to catch shows I wanted to watch. At least 20% of the time, I wound up watching the backup.


I could not agree more. A VCR back up because it will not record 20-40% of the time, is not what I could call exactable.

Update on my 2 unit.
Two nights ago I could not get it to boot up so I unplug it and replug it. Still no go. So I unplug it for 4 hours, plug it in and it worked, I did not set any shows to record for 16 hours, left it off. I started using it again last night and TVguide is almost update so I set it to record 3 shows today and I'll let you know if it records them. I now have two 7*24 fans blowing on the unit to keep it cool. Maybe the unplug for 4 hours cleared out the memory, I'll see.

Thanks
mstanl

I have not complained here about my 3410, but I just got my 2nd unit and this one is even worse than first. My original one worked great for 2 months and than started locking up, losing guide and so forth. The new unit won't even download the guide, locks up after few minutes and is pretty much unusable. I am getting tired of all these problems. Time to call LG again.

I'm looking into a 50" plasma display, guess what brand i'm not going to even look at.........

mstanl

Tried to call Ahn today 3 times. They referred me to customer service and hung up. What a lousy consumer relations outfit. So much for the nice approach. Maybe my FTC and congreesional letters will do better.

Folks, I'm certainly willing to get involved in a collective effort of some kind. It looks like LG will just keep replacing units with more bad ones, charging for labor after the first 90 days, and then tell us we're out of luck when the one year warranty expires. Isn't there some law that refers to the down time of equipment not going against the warranty? If you lose the use of the unit for four months out of the year due to down time and waiting for exchanges/repairs, why should that count against the warranty period? Under the current circumstances, LG should stand up for us and warrant the replacements beyond the original period.

My experience most closely matches that of CKNA where the 3410A was OK except for minor glitches until the third month when it became completely unreliable. I'm waiting 14 days so far just to get shipping info for my first exchange. I'm hoping to get lucky with a new unit, but I am definitely not counting on it. The CSR's spout ridiculous BS. (We don't understand LG's definition of "refurbished", which can be a new unit.)

Yes, forums like this always get more posts from those with problems than those without them. But this thread started way before the 3410A was available. We were all excited and interested in every detail of the coming DVR. Out of that original group, how many have had problems with the unit? MOST! What does that tell you? That is, we were a random collection of posters, many of whom later purchased the thing. And most of us got bad ones.

Sure, there must be people who have had success so far that we have not heard from. But the final clue is in the answer to the question: "How many of us who have exchanged units have received a flawless replacement?" Without going back through 50 pages, my recollection is ZERO.

KornerKlub, with all due respect to your opinion, look at the numbers. The 3410A has big problems. BIG.

Just as a means of providing another data point, I have had no problems whatsoever with my three month old LG 3410.

I have an OTA UHF antenna as well as an analog cable input attached to the unit.

I get daily EPG data and make scheduled recordings without any problems.

As a means of precaution, this week I installed an ATM Cool It2 the top of the 3410 which has a thermostat which is designed to start the fan when the case temp exceeds 99 degrees on .

http://www.activethermal.com/Cool-It_II.htm

I tested it by running the LG 3410 for 14 hours continuously and recording several things during that time, and, to my surprise, the fan never even turned on.

Murray, I've noticed that my fan occasionally requires a slight "nudge" to start it. I'm going to get some small spacers to lift it slightly above the LG unit. I'm hoping that solves the problem.

The nudge usually starts the fan after about an hour of use.

Andy

Originally posted by alk3997
Murray, I've noticed that my fan occasionally requires a slight "nudge" to start it. I'm going to get some small spacers to lift it slightly above the LG unit. I'm hoping that solves the problem.

The nudge usually starts the fan after about an hour of use.

Andy

Andy

Actually,

The 3410 does not appear overly hot to the touch, even after 14 hours.

It certainly warm, but not hot.

The case is not what gets very hot. It is the heat sinks on the power supply. My case is hottest in the corner by the power cord.

Originally posted by PhillyC
[

Sure, there must be people who have had success so far that we have not heard from. But the final clue is in the answer to the question: "How many of us who have exchanged units have received a flawless replacement?" Without going back through 50 pages, my recollection is ZERO.

[/B]

Phil, I have had my replacement unit ~ 2 months and have had no problems. HOWEVER, due to my experience with my first unit. I do not use the Guide, and tell the 3410 "No Match" when it tries to get me to match my channels. I only set up recordings manually. I know this diminishes the value of the unit, but to me it is still functional. As a hedge, I bought an extended warranty through my retailer. I should not have had to do this, but that damned 90 day labor warranty really worried me.

Originally posted by MrHifi
[

If you can not record or it burns up without a dedicated external fan, it indicates to me that the device was not tested properly and released too soon. I find it interesting that no one else has released a product like this anywhere. Normally there would be several competing models from various manufacturers making use of the same technology.

/B]

Art, my only disagreement with your statement is that I previously had a Samsung 165, which was even worse. Even when it worked "properly" it didn't work.

Now when my second 3410 craps out, I'll be right there in y'all's camp. Until then, I'm enjoying it even though I don't use the Guide.

Jim

Originally posted by merton
Phil, I have had my replacement unit ~ 2 months and have had no problems. HOWEVER, due to my experience with my first unit. I do not use the Guide, and tell the 3410 "No Match" when it tries to get me to match my channels. I only set up recordings manually.
Jim

I'll keep this in mind for my replacement unit. Right now, although I haven't set my current 3410A to "no match", the Guide screen is usually blank because it loses everything almost daily. Even with the empty Guide, the screen flickers and the unit locks up, requiring unplugging it for a couple of hours. Since I can't be in the guide long enough to schedule a recording, this is pretty much useless.

Twice, I did manage to get through the flickering screens to set up a scheduled recording. Within a short time of powering down, the time reset --- once to a random wrong time, the other to 12:00, and the schedule disappeared.

The really amazing thing to me is how many different ways errors manifest themselves in the unit. When you think you've seen every possible error, it surprises you with a new one.

How many people have successfully ugraded the hard drive in their LG 3410, and, to which brand and size of drive?

I just got my refurbed replacement unit several days ago. So far the green screen and no response to remote or front panel controls hasn't occured and no lock ups yet. My Guide has had one failure to record 2 shows back to back same cable channel and all it recored was the first 3 minutes of each show. I tried this same recording off the Guide again and it worked as scheduled. I've learned to make back up copies on my svhs for any program I really want to see, but what a pain. I doubt I can depend on this unit to record any programs when I'm away for a week, so I guess I won't be scrapping the 3 jvc svhs decks I got or the jvc 30k any time soon.
I was going to wait for the hitachi deskstar hdd 400gb but I don't know if this unit is worth the additional cost.
joe

Here is my update for the week. Thanks to umr for getting me to think about when I added my cooling fans to the unit. I had to many problems last week Thur. that I unplugged the unit for 4 hours put the demo pin in and started all over. Well Friday the unit record 4 shows during the day and over this weekend record 4 shows without a problem. I was not home Sat, Sun and Mon. When I returned home on monday night I saw that the power had been out at the house for 45 minutes, "clocks not set right and VCR flashing 12:00". Well ths LG is on a UPS and was up and running fine. It record all shows and had the TVGuide update also. I run the fans 24*7 and I now think that this unit and my last one, have a heat problem. Once it heats up and over heats then the program memory is bad, I had to do a total cool boot of the unit. I'll let you know if I make it to Thur. one week since the reboot.

Thanks
mstanl

If you have received a replacement unit from LG that did not work correctly, please PM me.

Well I have now had my third unit for about 3 weeks. Still not working well, since it still locks up - requiring the power-off to clear it up. My 1st unit was exchanged for a second one after about a month. The replacement worked for a few weeks, and then it began locking up. This time I had to return it to LG for the software update "Fix." (Version 1.14) This did NOT fix the lock up problems. At first it went a week without locking up, but then the lockups started to occur more often (again). This is the third time I have had to call about this same problem. I don't have a fan on my unit (shouldn't have to), but I have made sure that it's in an area with adequate air flow.

I finally got an opportunity to call LG service back today a few minutes ago, and talked to a representative. I gave her my case number from the previous report, and told her that unless they can provide me a unit that works properly, I wanted to get my money back on this thing. She put me on hold a few minutes, and then she came back and said that she would print out the case record and would have the supervisor related to that item (April Ingram) call me back about the “buy back” on this item.

I'm not sure what that means. Do they intend to offer me less than I paid? I would prefer a unit that works consistently, but sure don't intend to take a significant loss on a product that has never performed as it should have.

I'll let everyone know what I hear from them, since based upon past experience they probably won't call me back today.

Has anyone else had a similar experience related to a "refund?"

Can you tell us:
1) Is heat REALLY a problem with this unit (or is it something else--like sensitivity to currupted guide data, etc.)?
2) If so, how does it manifest itself and can it be corrected?

I have (luckily) been one of those early adoptors that have had virtually NO problems with my unit. However, I have seen a couple of oddities over the months, and basically live in fear of it succumbing to the heat (so to speak). I have it INSIDE a cabinet with no unusual cooling mechanism (e.g. fans), but I also don't use it a lot (a few hours per week); my concern would be what happens if that changes...

"Has anyone else had a similar experience related to a "refund?"

This is the normal process. You will either be approved or not by this supervisor. In my experience I went through three such supervisors before I got the word that they would refund my money. Even then a 4th lady had to approve because of replacementsa in that position. You have to keep calling and calling. My call record tp LGE shows 47 calls to date and I'm still waiting for a refund. I started in early April. This company is all talk and no action. Reminds me of Enstron.

An update on the Cool-It fan...

I finally got this thing working properly last night. To get the two fans to spin (in my setup) I had to put eight spacers on the bottom of the Cool-It. I used clear 1/8-inch spacers from Radio Shack. The reason for eight instead of four is the shape of the Cool-It device.

With the spacers installed, the Cool-It fans started after about an hour and ran for approximately 10 minutes. After that time the fans shutdown and then didn't run again for approximately another 30 minutes. This cycle then repeated.

The good news was that the LG LST-3410a was as cool as it has ever been. It was just slightly warm but nothing greater than that.

BTW, without the spacers the fan would never run on its own. It required a nudge to start it. I believe it was hanging-up on the LST-3410a case. If the LST-3410a doesn't seem to be getting any cooler with the CoolIt, this is probably the reason.

The Cool-It device has a sensor that starts the fan anytime it senses temperatures above 95 degrees F. I have the sensor placed just slight behind and the to the right of center of the 3410a (when looking from the front).

Murray deserves the credit for finding this device. It greatly helps in cooling the unit and it is quiet. This CoolIt is used on a 3410a with a 250GB HDD.

Update, I did not make it the week without a problem. I was using the unit last night and all was good. It record 2 shows during the day and 1 at night that we watched. I turned it on and off a few times before I when to bed at about 10:00 pm. When I tried to turn the unit on the next day, it would not even show the 'Hello'. I unpluged the pwoer off and on a few times and got it to boot. But the clock went from 7:15am to 6:00am. Also I did not have the unit on the UPS, just pluged into the wall. In my last post I stated that the power when out for 45 minutes and the unit worked on and record all shows, how can this be? Ithad no UPS and the clock was correct. I do not get it the fans were onall nightand the unit was never hot.

LG is sending me a packing slip to sendthis unit back for a replacement 3 unit. I'll let you know how that truns out.

mstanl

I can't believe you guys think this is a heating problem. Face it, the unit just sucks IMO !!!!!!!

mstanl,

Yes, the problems only get worse. Now my unit resets to 12:00 a few minutes after the unplug/reset routine. Sometimes the time advances to 12:01, then within a few seconds returns to 12:00.

I tried a workaround of giving it a zip code of 00000, but that won't work because with no Guide info, you can't even set a manual timer recording. So my unit is basically useless for the last four weeks now.

Still waiting to hear from LG re shipping info.

The recurring issues for some on the 3410 are quite a mystery.

If it were a latent defect not influenced by heat, poor/corrupt/missing EPG guide data or user error, it should occur on all units, all the time.

Therefore there must be a sequence or confluence of circumstances that drive the aberrant behavior.

I have had only two issues to date after 4 months.

1. Some random glitches on playback which do not occur often at all and are present in every HD DVR solution at one time or another.

2. I locked the unit up through repeated pause/still frame advance clicks. I only had to press Power (off) on the unit to reset to normal operation.

I have a 3410 bought from Best Buy with 1.12 FW.

It works extremely well and reliably within it's design parameters.

The PQ is glorious on the DVI output from OTA antenna, hard disk and DVHS.

I highly recommend the 3410 with the caveat that any prospective buyer must read the text of this thread, and, get a 30 day money back guarantee.

There is no better FireWire enabled STB available, which IMO, is the killer app of this unit.

mstanl,

It is possible that once your unit overheats it is toast and no amount of cooling after that will fix it. That was the point I was trying to make.

Originally posted by umr
mstanl,

It is possible that once your unit overheats it is toast and no amount of cooling after that will fix it. That was the point I was trying to make.

Yes I know what you are saying. At this point I do not know?

I just want it work work... I like it, want it, is better then my ST165 unit.
But I can not be rebooting this thing 1-2 times a week. LG has no answers for me but is willing to replace it. I hope that it works.

Thanks

My instincts tell me that this is going to turn out to be a combination of items that cause the LST3410a problems. Heat may turn out to be one of the items and I know PSIP data is a possible cause. Who knows what program paths the firmware goes down when off-nominal signals are received (either Guide or PSIP). Those who know (LG) aren't talking.

From a heat standpoint, the reason I put the CoolIt in was not because I was having problems but more to keep from having problems. I figured it probably would help the MTBF to keep the unit closer to room temperature. It certainly couldn't hurt.

Just to add one more datapoint, except for the time when I accidentally recorded bad PSIP data, my LST3410a has worked perfectly. The only hang-up was the bad PSIP data. Once the 3410a was rebooted and the bad file erased, the unit returned to normal function. Of course it took three days to get the 3410a recovered and lots of patience (some boot-ups took over 30 minutes to complete). Again, that only happened once (so far).

My 3410a occasionally has a less-than-a-second video glitch, but that is happening less and less frequently (can't explain that) - down to once a week.

The worst part of the 3410a is LG and specifically their customer "support". They are easily the worst company I've ever dealt with.

I know that doesn't make those with problems feel any better, but I thought I'd update my 3410a's status.

I have a small computer fan on top of the 3410 which runs at half speed through a transformer so it's quiet and operates 24 hours a day. I have never had any problem with the unit and its about five months old. My only complaint is that I can't archive from the hard drive to the Panasonic PVHD1000. Has anyone had success with this D-VHS recorder or any other brand recorder?

Originally posted by sr
My only complaint is that I can't archive from the hard drive to the Panasonic PVHD1000. Has anyone had success with this D-VHS recorder or any other brand recorder?


sr


With the Panasonic PV-HD1000, I can play tapes made on it and the JVC 30K through the 3410's FireWire input, but, I cannot use the 3410 to record to the PV-HD1000.

Originally posted by umr
I just modded mine to battle the heat problem. I added a 40x10 Spire ball bearing fan to the location intended for a fan on the back.

umr

Why did you use rubber cement and not fan screws through the rear grille cut outs to secure the 40x10 Spire ball bearing fan to the location intended for a fan on the back?

Originally posted by sr
I have a small computer fan on top of the 3410 which runs at half speed through a transformer so it's quiet and operates 24 hours a day. I have never had any problem with the unit and its about five months old. My only complaint is that I can't archive from the hard drive to the Panasonic PVHD1000. Has anyone had success with this D-VHS recorder or any other brand recorder? To the best of my knowledge, the PV-HD1000 will only Firewire record from the Panasonic TU-DST50 or 51 DTV tuners, or other PV-HD1000's. Panasonic uses a unique Firewire protocal that prevents other Firewire enabled sources from communicating with the PV-HD1000.

Thanks for the reply. Is there any known brand of D-VHS recorder that will record from the hard drive?

Originally posted by sr
Thanks for the reply. Is there any known brand of D-VHS recorder that will record from the hard drive?

sr

The manual states that the JVC 30K and Mits 1100/2000 work.

It lists other Japanese models not sold in the U.S.

Will just have to wait for the Blue-ray recorder!

I was almost tempted to get one of these today. I was in BB and they had one lonely unit sitting there. I know I would have 30 days to return it but I know my luck the problems would start after the 30 days had expired. It was tempting but I just keep thinking about this thread.
Jim

Originally posted by sr
My only complaint is that I can't archive from the hard drive to the Panasonic PVHD1000. Has anyone had success with this D-VHS recorder or any other brand recorder?

SR, one of the pleasant surprises about the 3410/JVC30k combination is that it has worked well for me. With my big supply of S-VHS tapes I've never felt compelled to install a larger hard drive, thus voiding my all-important warranty.

Jim

Originally posted by motoman
I was almost tempted to get one of these today. I was in BB and they had one lonely unit sitting there. I know I would have 30 days to return it but I know my luck the problems would start after the 30 days had expired. It was tempting but I just keep thinking about this thread.
Jim

That's because (like many boards) all you hear is negatives, not positives. The folks who are happy with this unit don't need to post (present company excepted). This unit works as advertised for OTA HD recording, and I have no unusual cooling mechanisms. My only caveat is probably lite use (a few hours per week); I don't know how people have time to use this thing a few hours a day.

I only want one for OTA and won't be using cable with it.
So you think it's safe? I will only record a few shows a week plus Leno every night.
Jim

Has anyone compared the vga output to the component for improvement in video quality if any?
joe

<Has anyone compared the vga output to the component for improvement in video quality if any?>

I returned 2 units because of brightness level variations in the VGA. I have learned that it may be the absence of black clamping in the unit that makes it incompatible with my DWIN CRT front projector. No one else has reported this problem AFAIK.

Well new update,

This unit is very sick.... Each day now I must power "unplug" the unit and wait a few minutes. Then it will boot up, but the time will be set to "--:--".

So now I wait for the return slip and try a 3 rd unit.

Mstanl

I'm curious Mstanl, are the replacement 3410s brand new or refurbished units?