Motoman -
That is basically what I do with mine and I've had no problems. Others have not been as lucky. I record just a few shows a week without any real problems unless I do something stupid (like shut the unit off when it is recording).

Just to be safe: Buy it from a place who will stand by it. Perhaps Best Buy with a service contract. Or someother place where you can get it easily exchanged for a new unit if it does give you problems.

Originally posted by mkerdman
umr

Why did you use rubber cement and not fan screws through the rear grille cut outs to secure the 40x10 Spire ball bearing fan to the location intended for a fan on the back?

Because I wanted to return the unit to its original condition if the mod failed. I have since switched to silicone because the rubber cement did not hold.

Originally posted by umr
Because I wanted to return the unit to its original condition if the mod failed. I have since switched to silicone because the rubber cement did not hold.

umr

I bought the small fan mentioned here and some nuts and bolts to secure it through the unused rear panel fan holes.

I have yet to install it as I was waiting to pull down and open the unit only once to do a hard drive upgrade with some kind of HDD cooler as well.

Do you know exactly what drive 120GB LG puts in there from the factory?

mkerdman,

I believe someone else posted the model number. It is a 5400 RPM CE Seagate drive.

Originally posted by umr
mkerdman,

I believe someone else posted the model number. It is a 5400 RPM CE Seagate drive.

umr

Thanks, I probably will use a Maxtor MaxLine II 300GB 5400 RPM drive I already have.

Originally posted by sr
I'm curious Mstanl, are the replacement 3410s brand new or refurbished units?

Not sure I have been told both from LG costomer help.

Just a quick note to follow up on some posts I made before.

Other than malfunctions due to guide data the unit has run fine for me. I noticed on my unit it was the hard drive that seemd to get really hot but not the power supply. I will follow up on that.

I added a 250mb 5400rpm maxtor hd to it, and mounted a graphics card cooling fan to the hd from Compusa. The fan runs very fast and whisper quiet and had a sticky bottom, install took like 5 seconds.

Also compusa had another kit of cooling fan, and 2 heatsinks that perfectly fit the powerpc chip and the other large flat chip on the motherboard. I did not use the fan in that box but did mount the 2 heatsinks.

NOW, I did post earlier, I NEVER use the the guide to set the timer. NEVER. IT usually records exactly 1/2 the length of the program, for 60 min, you get 30, for 30 you get 15. Very odd bug. I sat there and was staring right at the unit more than once when it malfunctioned like this.

So now I set the time and channel manually.

The other error I now see is that some of my local channels here in Atlanta have lost the program info completely. I hit the info button and get "no info available."

The unit has been on a UPS since day 1 of ownership. It has never locked up or failed in any other way than the above 2 ways. I only just added the fans today. So thats TWO months of daily usage, and it has worked fine, with firmware 1.12.

I think my earlier posts and about anything driven by this terrible guide system is doomed to fail as far as timed recordings. So I treat the guide as a printed/reference lookup for programs and thats it.

I am afraid to reset the unit to see if I can reload the psip data for the channels it has lost guide info for. I believe our local fox 5 is the one it has lost all info on. Manually timed programs on fox 5 do record but when I watch it live or play back a recording from that channel there is no info.

If the local station does any type of psip change or maintenance, I would imagine you must go into the menu and re-identify the key channels to let it know which local guide to use, but I don't want the hassle.

None of my cable channels have lost their guide data ever.

So I guess I am one of the mostly lucky ones that the unit is running very much okay for me and I look forward to replaying my TVLAND and other middle of the night cable reruns on timeshift when I like the next day or evening I have free. For me, its been a fun unit, if a little buggy. But so far nothing has stopped me from doing anything with it I want.

Of course the moment I post this, I am sure it will die a fast death <crossed fingers> just to spite me!

I would encourage everyone to go to Compusa and spent 5-20$ on a couple of silent fans. I strong suspect the hard drive to be the big heat source on my unit. The power supply sounds like it gets hotter on other units than mine does. My unit is on the top of a stack of components on a table so its in the open, not in a case. The new hd I installed and the original Seagate 5400rpm hard drive both generated equal amounts of heat. I DO NOT recommend 7400prm hard drives, they are noiser and will run hotter. BAD.

I WOULD NOT put this unit in ANY case/furniture stand without thorough fan cooling installed, thats a countdown to burn out in my opinon.... and if that furniture has a closed front or back you are recirculating some air with heat in fromt he unit. Be warned.

I would guess this unit to have 3 areas of issues.

1) ANYTHING driven by this guide system is severely prone to fail in any variety of ways. That means programs set to be recorded from it later, or anything else that depends on that guide.

2) HEAT. Heat from all over inside from the sounds of it. How LG ever sold this thing without adding a few 50 cent fans to it is absolutely beyond me. If I didnt know better I would say they actually wanted these units to have a short useful life.

3) Some related or unrelated design or firmware issue, that may be aggravated by 1 & 2 above. Since it can fail a few different ways from the guide to the heat I can see that causing all variety of different failures traceable back to the same cause often.

My opinion after 2 months, with a big caveat, the cavea being MY personal experience. Its very much worth the purchase, just install fans and be sure you unplug unit AND turn it off as with any electrical device when you expose its internal parts.

In 6 months I will have a better idea of course. I am saddened to hear how many have issues, the hd PVR and the cable PVR combined with this stellar HD tuner image quality has been great. I need to get rid of my HDSAT 520 and my other zenith hd.directv tuner. This box has worked out fine for me.

I wonder if adding a fan or changing the cooling/electrical supply part is encumbered by some regulations regarding any changes that need to be approved by some government or other agency.

Add to that if these come from overseas any feedback or changes need to get back over there and implemented.

I am going on about 2 months of use on my replacement with a fan installed. No problems so far. I am even using the guide.

My unit was also left on for about a week while I was on vacation and no problems.

I have never had any problems with the functions of the 3410.

However, more importantly, the 3410 produces the best native resolution HD image over DVI in industry today.

It's terrific!

If you have any type of digital display and watch OTA HDTV, buy this unit at a store with a 30 day money back guarantee like Best Buy.

You are not likely to return it, unless you become snake bitten with any of the regrettable issues identified elsewhere in this thread.

Originally posted by mkerdman
I have never had any problems with the functions of the 3410.

However, more importantly, the 3410 produces the best native resolution HD image over DVI in industry today.

It's terrific!

If you have any type of digital display and watch OTA HDTV, buy this unit at a store with a 30 day money back guarantee like Best Buy.

You are not likely to return it, unless you become snake bitten with any of the regrettable issues identified elsewhere in this thread.
Has anyone seen one of these at Best Buy or anyplace else with a 30 day money back guarantee? I haven't been able to find one.

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
Has anyone seen one of these at Best Buy or anyplace else with a 30 day money back guarantee? I haven't been able to find one.

TooLittle

Check at the customer service desk at your local Best Buy, or by phone at BestBuy.com, and request/demand that they special order you an LG LST 3410 SKU # 6287047 for $799 with a 30 day money back guarantee.

The 30 day guarantee may not be enough. Several of these DVR's have worked OK for two months or more, then crashed. This was the case with mine. Fortunately, it died about a week short of the 90 day labor warranty.

Originally posted by PhillyC
The 30 day guarantee may not be enough. Several of these DVR's have worked OK for two months or more, then crashed. This was the case with mine. Fortunately, it died about a week short of the 90 day labor warranty.


Yes, it is regrettable that an otherwise stellar product is plagued by so much evidence of being prone to brain damage.

I would suggest ruining the unit very hard during a 29-day "burn-in" period
by recording multiple back-to-back programs 24/7 and letting the unit run for extended periods of time with very good ventilation.

I think that an ATM Cool-It2 fan system, or similar, is a must for this product as the electrical engineers and designers obviously took the marketing feedback that many hated loud STB's a little too literally and produced a heat producing product with an exhaust fan grill, and yet, no fan.

...and remember to put your ATM Cool-It2 fan system on spacers (available at Radio Shack) before placing it on top of the 3410a. This way the fans have room to turn.

FYI, response from LG on my 3410A problems:

It took 3 weeks for LG to send shipping labels for an exchange of my 3410A. Since none of the refurbs in this forum have worked, I asked an "escalation person" if he could send a NEW unit in exchange. He said he would speak with management and call me back, but never did call, which has now cost me another week.

I managed to leave a message for the "electronics manager", who also never called me back.

Today, I reached a different "escalation person" who takes all calls for the electronics manager. I was not allowed to speak with the manager. I recited the list of problems, including the fact that timer recordings are now impossible. At one point, I was told to call TV Guide, since most problems appear to be Guide related. That was REALLY annoying.

The upshot:

LG absolutely refuses to replace my unit with a new one.

LG will NOT give me a refund at this time.

My ONLY choice is to exchange it for a refurb.

This is just great. What a response. I'll probably get one of the units the rest of you have been passing around (you know ---like Johnny Carson's fruitcake theory).

BTW, one of the MANY people at LG I've talked with in the last few weeks did admit that "stacks" of 3410A's are sitting on work benches, while techs try to figure out what's wrong.

The only good result so far is that LG will extend my warranty by 6 months. Of course, that will only be helpful if I manage to get a unit that WORKS.

Originally posted by PhillyC
... Since none of the refurbs in this forum have worked, I asked an "escalation person" if he could send a NEW unit in exchange. ...

My refurb is working. I would add the fan mod I posted earlier.

Originally posted by umr
My refurb is working. I would add the fan mod I posted earlier.

Then I believe there are two, now. Another poster, merton, hasn't posted lately, so I assume his is still OK. The odds, if my count in this forum are correct, are about 1 in 12 that a refurb will work. Of course, my original unit and several of the refurbs here worked for a couple of months before conking out.

I hope LG is not just recirculating units without finding the true cause of the trouble. I'd rather have a working 3410A than a refund.

As far a purchasing a cooling fan, I think you should bill LG. ;) The 3410A costs plenty as it is.

A question for the rest of you with bad replacement units: Have you gotten any relief from LG by sending a PM to you-know-who that asked for this info here? You can PM me if it's not for broadcast. I notice that you've all been suspiciously quiet, lately...

Philly,

I'm still waiting for my refund. I have contacted the FTC. They should ship them all back to Korea and bring our boys and girls home. Pretty sad commentary on the kind of morals Korean companies adhere to.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Philly,

I'm still waiting for my refund. I have contacted the FTC. They should ship them all back to Korea and bring our boys and girls home. Pretty sad commentary on the kind of morals Korean companies adhere to.

LG said today that there can't be big problem with the 3410A or there would have been a recall. So their logic goes something like this: "There is no problem because we don't admit there is a problem."

At least my warranty was extended. If my refurb has problems sooner rather than later, the next point of contention will be LG trying to charge me $90 for an exchange, at which point I will ask for my money back. I guess I should wait to see how my refurb acts, but it's difficult to be positive after observing events here and after all the promises broken by LG.

Isn't your refund supposed to be sent right around now?

Is there any capability to download programs (even at a lower resolution) to a computer system for editing and DVD burning, as can be done on a Replay?

Also, I note your observation that it cannot control a Scientific Atlanta box (presumably 3100 HD). I assume however I could use the program screens on the 3100 or the RTV to set the cable channel, set the 3410 to record manually and run the component video output from the cable bos to the 3410?

Originally posted by PhillyC
Then I believe there are two, now. Another poster, merton, hasn't posted lately, so I assume his is still OK. The odds, if my count in this forum are correct, are about 1 in 12 that a refurb will work. Of course, my original unit and several of the refurbs here worked for a couple of months before conking out.



Phil,

I'm still here and guardedly OK. But remember, I don't use the Guide at all. It was when I tried to remap my channels that my first unit died, but I got a replacement within a week (v 1.12). They cross-shipped with a credit card guarantee.

BTW, I have mine in a cabinet with no external fans, a Turtle Beach Auditron on top and a JVC 30K underneath, on the same shelf. Still the original 120G drive. They do seem pretty warm. I have a Fluke IR remote thermometer if anyone wants to compare temps.

From my perspective, I think bad Guide data may cause more problems to the 3410 than heat. Not that this should excuse LG's design and remedies (or lack thereof !). Maybe they only tested it with perfect Guide data......

Jim

I tend to agree with the previous post, because mine sits inside a cabinet with no external fans (as I've said previously) and the only time I had something funny happen (that required a re-boot) was an apparant loss of EPG data.

merton, bad Guide and/or PSIP data would also explain why people who get a replacement unit experience the same problems. I really have to believe that LG does some type of tests on the replacement units before shipping.

Unfortunately, the LG techs aren't testing for the types of transmissions that are causing these problems. Also unfortunately, the programmers of the 3410a firmware appear to believe that all stations would transmit only correct data. They could use a course or two in data validation techniques.

I just hooked up my 3410.

Im feeding it via firewire from both a JVC 400 and the Mits.

It sees the mits and plays back my HD tapes but Im not having any luck with the JVC. It controls it but I do not get any image and it says no signal. I get this on tapes Ive recorded using 169time and on DTHeater tapes.
I am using the analog outputs at 1080I. I tried both RGB and component but I get the same thing from each output.
Any ideas?

Thanks!

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
I just hooked up my 3410.

Im feeding it via firewire from both a JVC 400 and the Mits.

It sees the mits and plays back my HD tapes but Im not having any luck with the JVC. It controls it but I do not get any image and it says no signal. I get this on tapes Ive recorded using 169time and on DTHeater tapes.
I am using the analog outputs at 1080I. I tried both RGB and component but I get the same thing from each output.
Any ideas?

Thanks!

Alan

Make sure you have disconnected all other FireWire devices from your JVC 40K before connecting it to the 3410.

Both my JVC 30K and Panasonic HD1000 play back perfectly all DVHS tapes made (1) OTA, (2) from 169Time (HBOHD from DTC100 does not work, but, it does from the Dish 6000, and (3) D-Theater.

The JVC 40K is not listed as supported by the LG 3410 in the manual, but, others may have had it work. I think I recall one user who ran his 40K through his 30K, but, I am not sure.

Ok, I do have the 400 hooked to the PC for DVHSTools also so I will disconnect that connection and give it a try.

Thanks Murray.

Any way to turn off the grey bars and change them to black when doing aspect raios?

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Any way to turn off the grey bars and change them to black when doing aspect raios?

Alan

I don't think so.

Regardless what I do I cannot get the 400 to work. It controls it ok but I get no image.

If I have to go back to the 30k then I lose DTS. This sucks. It does play the 169 tapes just fine. Better than the Roku.

I forgot to mention when playing bacl tapes I get a while line down the left side as if the image is shifted. I dont see any centering controls.

Alan,

You could be running into 5C/HDCP type issues.

I believe that if the 3410A is connected to a non HDCP device, it will not play DTheater tapes from firewire.

Just a thought...

Cheers!
DAve.

I just got it working. I had to unplug everything to reset them. It works. This thing is mint. I love it.
Im off to watch some movies.

Thanks for all the help.

Alan, can you archive from the hard drive to the JVC 4000?

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Regardless what I do I cannot get the 400 to work. It controls it ok but I get no image.

If I have to go back to the 30k then I lose DTS. This sucks. It does play the 169 tapes just fine. Better than the Roku.

You will not get DTS when playing thru 3410. Only DD and Mpeg audio. For DTS you still need direct hook up to your decoder.

Originally posted by Phloyd
Alan,

You could be running into 5C/HDCP type issues.

I believe that if the 3410A is connected to a non HDCP device, it will not play DTheater tapes from firewire.

Just a thought...

Cheers!
DAve.

HDCP is only for DVI or HDMI. Dtheater tapes will play as long as the device has 5C, in which case 3410 does.

A few observations from a first time user. I only have a few hours use so far.

I do not have OTA HD in my area so I am not using his for recording, I do have cable hooked to it. My main use is for playback of DVHS DTheater tapes and tapes recorded using 169time AVX and Direct.

So far I like the performance of the decoder verses the decoder in the JVC. It seams to be displaying the proper black levels and the image is much sharper.

The box is very easy to use. I wish it had a few more features but still very nice.

Going through a bunch of titles last night recorded using 169time and Im still getting those dame AVX glitches really bad. It plays some titles OK but it does not like allot of them. The AVX strikes again.
The titles it does not like I must have recorded from HBO. Unfortunately I have a lot of them.

While watching a DTheater title right in the middle of the movie it lost the firewire connection and I had to shut everything down to get it to reconnect. I hate firewire:(

All in all I like this machine. Ill use it where I can, mostly for DTheater playback seeing as most of my recordings came from directs HBO and the AVX and wont play:(

Thanks for all the help guys.

"From my perspective, I think bad Guide data may cause more problems to the 3410 than heat. Not that this should excuse LG's design and remedies (or lack thereof !). Maybe they only tested it with perfect Guide data......"


I think so too. My current unit "2nd replacement" that I was having so much trouble with has started to work again. I rebooted it on Friday last week and set the clock. I did not program anything to record for 1 week. And it has booted up on Monday - Friday without a problem. So today I set it to record 5 shows while I'm at work, I'll let you know if they are recorded or not. But for the past week I can watch shows live or record that were record before on the HD without problems.

LG said they would replace this unit but I still have not received the shipping labels.

Thanks
mstanl

Still no check from LGE. Tried to call Barbara as she told me to but they had me on hold for 40 min. Hope you're units do not fail because promises of refunds are not kept by LGE.

mstanl,

It took 3 weeks and several phone calls to get my shipping labels in the mail. No one at LG has kept a single promise, like calling me back or sending the labels at the promised time.

I have a sense that the LG 3410 is not being produced in the kind of quantity that LG may have originally planned.

I believe some of the problems experienced here are part of the reason, and, the emergence of CableCard slots as the U.S. cable HD standard, and therefore a part of a possible successor model, may be another.

Anyone using this with just cable. If so how do you get the TV guide to reflect cable and not satellite. I dont fell like editing out 900 something channels.

Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Anyone using this with just cable. If so how do you get the TV guide to reflect cable and not satellite. I dont fell like editing out 900 something channels.

I don't believe this box gets ANY satellite schedules, but if you want the cable listings, you need to select "cable" at the initial setup and follow the instructions based upon your config (unscrambled, etc.). Instead of downloading the guide OTA (like I do), I believe it will search for it on the cable feed.

So, did I just make, like, $50 with that helpful tip? Interesting sig.

So, did I just make, like, $50 with that helpful tip? Interesting sig.

Thats was funny:)


Ill have to go back into the setup again but I did choose cable and my guide has all the satellite channels up into the 900s:(

Well I went back into setup and made sure I did everything correct.

I chose cable tv, standard cable and I let it do its sweep.
It then says it will download the guide tonight but this just what I did the other day and it has pulled up channels up to 950. My cable only goes to 80.

When I pull up the TV Guide it starts in the 900s. Sure I could sit here all day and delete what I dont want ( 800 something channels, my finger will fall off) but I would rather have the guide be accurate.

Anyone else using cable with this box having any luck with the guide that can pass along any hints how to get this to work.

I still love this thing. Im happy with it. Nothing is perfect,

Alan,

Even with a selection of "cable - no cable box", the Guide will still download everything it deems appropriate in your area. But I don't think it would include satellite channels. The high numbers must be digital cable channels. Yes, the box downloads a huge group of channels that you've already told it you don't have. Kind of dumb design. Certainly not very efficient.

You never know what the thing is going to do. It had a habit every few days of deciding my OTA HD channels should be changed to cable HD numbers (that I did not even have in my location). It did this inconsistently, so I never knew if I would have a successful timer recording or if it would fail because a non-existent channel number suddenly replaced the real one.

I only wanted about 20 OTA/cable channels in my Guide, so yes, I had lots of fun deleting the others. It actually wouldn't have been so bad doing it just ONCE, but every so often the Guide would be totally lost and start itself over again --- with ALL those extra channels.

BTW, I'm speaking in past tense because I sent my 3410A back to LG for exchange.

Hi Phil

Whats worse, I could just scroll through channels 5 through 70 ignoring the higher channels that are not available to me but the channel line up is not in numerical order. If I'm in the guide on ch 15 and scroll up one channel that channel could be 408 or the one below it 901. Completely out of order. I think I am just going to give up using the guide on this thing. Its a waist of time.

The channel order can be arranged in Guide > Setup. Channels can be moved up and down in this screen, but I found an undocumented trick. Highlight the channel you want to move. Then use the remote keypad to punch in the number which represents the place in the list you want to move the channel.

For example, highlight a channel near the bottom of the list. Punch in 2 > Select on the remote. The highlighted channel will move to second on the list. (I think you have to highlight a certain part of the channel bar for this to work.)

In this way, you can bunch all the channels you want at the top of the list. When you go into the Listings screen, they will appear in this order.

Hello All,

Well the unit did record all shows that I have set. Going on 2 weeks now. It has not locked up once. I think that it must be bad data in the guide that causes the problems. I do not have may shows scheduled to record just one a day.

Thanks

Anyone know if Walmart is/will be carrying this? That may sound like a dumb question but their web site is selling the LSS3200A.

Dan

The best price on these I had seen back when I got my unit was at Value Electronics, I think 799$ or less, mention the AVS forum, they have a special price for us. I have enjoyed my unit a great deal and got very prompt delivery. I believe in posting when an experience with a merchant and the hardware is positive, and when its negative. In this case I ordered the unit later afternoon on a Wed, it shipped the same day, I got it on a Friday, and have loved it every day since.

I also purchased my LST-3410a from Value Electronics and was very happy with the way the order was handled. The 10% off was also a nice incentive.

Originally posted by alk3997
I also purchased my LST-3410a from Value Electronics and was very happy with the way the order was handled. The 10% off was also a nice incentive.


I bought mine from Best Buy for slightly less than $800, but, I am uncertain if they still carry it.

While you cannot play a scheduled recording in progress, you can use all the PVR features like Pause Live TV, FFWD, REWIND and Still by another means.

1. Tune to the desired channel

2. Press Time Shift

3. Press Clip REC to start REC session

4. Now you can Pause Live TV, FFWD, REWIND, Still, Go to START, and Go to END

5. At the end of the recording/viewing session, if you want to SAVE the program to disk, PRESS Clip REC and then PRESS STOP

6. The Recorded Program Directory will update with the actual name of the program it was tuned to providing your guide data is correct.

NOTE: If you are watching a 9:00PM to 10:00PM show on channel A and also want to RECORD a 10:00PM to 11:00PM show on channel B, but, have not yet finished watching the 9:00PM to 10:00PM show on channel A you can:

1. PRESS Go to End at 9:59PM

2. Press Clip REC which inserts the end point for the 9:00PM to 10:00PM show on channel A

3. Change channels to channel B

4. PRESS Clip REC to start the new recording of the 10:00PM to 11:00PM show on channel B

5. PRESS << - Rewind and return to the point you left off watching the 9:00PM to 10:00PM show on channel A.

6. At 11:00PM or so, PRESS Clip Rec to insert the end point for the 10:00PM to 11:00PM show on channel B

7. When you then PRESS STOP both the 9:00PM to 10:00PM show on channel A and the 10:00PM to 11:00PM show on channel B will be added Recorded Program Directory which will also be updated with the actual name of the program it was tuned to providing your guide data is correct.

Was the hard drive you used to upgrade the 3410 formatted (FAT32 or NTFS) or raw before you installed it into the 3410?

Does the on board hardware/firmware format the drive as necessary from whatever prior formatting may have been present?

Everyone that I have spoken to personally just installled the drive right out of the shrinkwrap.

I know their earlier model HDTV PVR used Linux someone figued out, if the 3410a does, then it probably initiailzes a file table and goes from there as it needs to.


Some fairly large hard drives have been installed, and one guess is the limit is 2 terabytes, if such a drive ever becomes available and cost effective.

One word of warning, install a fan and ONLY another 5400 rpm hard drive,prefferably a hard drive with a longer than 1 year warranty as constant continuous use is what these drives see. Not all pc's use a drive that hard.

Maxtor is the current favorite for consumer 5400 rpm hard drives, the Seagate 5400 rpm drives seem to be only OEM to manufacturers of late. A 7200 rpm drive is going run faster and won't be the same spec (5400rpm ) as what yuo take out and usually will run hotter. The connector for the hard drive is standard hard drive pc hard drive connector, so you can get a power connector Y(splitter) cable to give you 2 power plugs and install a cheap fan while you are in there.

It goes without saying the unit should be both OFF and unlpugged for 5 min to be sure any electricity is discharged, since removing the cover exposes circuits and chips and the power supply.

Originally posted by ZZtop
Everyone that I have spoken to personally just installled the drive right out of the shrinkwrap.

I know their earlier model HDTV PVR used Linux someone figued out, if the 3410a does, then it probably initiailzes a file table and goes from there as it needs to.


Some fairly large hard drives have been installed, and one guess is the limit is 2 terabytes, if such a drive ever becomes available and cost effective.

One word of warning, install a fan and ONLY another 5400 rpm hard drive,prefferably a hard drive with a longer than 1 year warranty as constant continuous use is what these drives see. Not all pc's use a drive that hard.

Maxtor is the current favorite for consumer 5400 rpm hard drives, the Seagate 5400 rpm drives seem to be only OEM to manufacturers of late. A 7200 rpm drive is going run faster and won't be the same spec (5400rpm ) as what yuo take out and usually will run hotter. The connector for the hard drive is standard hard drive pc hard drive connector, so you can get a power connector Y(splitter) cable to give you 2 power plugs and install a cheap fan while you are in there.

It goes without saying the unit should be both OFF and unlpugged for 5 min to be sure any electricity is discharged, since removing the cover exposes circuits and chips and the power supply.


ZZTop

I have a Maxtor 300GB-5400RPM drive that is currently in use as a NTFS drive.

What kind of wipe or reformatting do you think is required to get back to a "shrink-wrap" state?

I don't think you need to do anything, I think the operating system in the unit takes care of it. It gets the drive specs and goes from there is my guess. Some of these op systems just initialize by recording the drive as they go.

I know 3 people who swapped out NTFS formatted drives they had in pc's in the earlier Zenith HDTV PVRs and they worked just fine.

Originally posted by ZZtop
I don't think you need to do anything, I think the operating system in the unit takes care of it. It gets the drive specs and goes from there is my guess. Some of these op systems just initialize by recording the drive as they go.

I know 3 people who swapped out NTFS formatted drives they had in pc's in the earlier Zenith HDTV PVRs and they worked just fine.

ZZtop

Thanks.

I may try removing the stock hard drive and leaving the top cover ajar in the rear so that I can attach the IDE and power cable to an external Kingwin KF-101-IPF Black Aluminum Mobile Rack for UDMA/ATA 66/100/133 Hard Drives like this:

http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3555114

That way I can swap drives at will, and remove the hard drive as a heat source from the 3410's internal chassis.

If it works well and my warranty is long expired I may modify the rear or top panel to allow the connections to be made and the top screwed back on.

Hi Murray,

Does the LG LST-3410A work with firewire ported STBs like those modified by 169Time?

Can one record directly from the 169Time AVX-1 to the LG's hard drive?

Thanks!

Just to let everyone know--an official at LGE today told me that they have defective units stacked up "like cordwood". Requests from customer service for refunds are not being honored by the New Jersey offices. No device, no refund--Guess I'm fu..ed. Wish I'd never heard of LGE. $1,000.00 is a lot to loose. Looks like the Koreans are winning the Korean war even though we helped the little bastards in their time of need. Today I begin my public crusade against LGE..

Since I know how infuriating LG customer service and management is, I thought I'd throw out a couple of ideas...

1) Look for everyplace on the web where an LST-3410a is reviewed, listed, etc. Most of them have review sites. Post a review - have at it.

2) Figure out the email addresses for the company and send complaints via email to appropriate senior management.

3) I've said it before - FTC and NJ attorney general.

4) A friend of mine reminded me that NJ warranty laws are very strict. You might want to do some research on that. Here is an example:

http://nj.gov/lps/newsreleases04/pr20040519c.html

5) Contact the merchant you purchased the LST-3410a from and make sure they understand you will be using their store name in every correspondence concerning this matter and then do it. You would be amazed at how fast that can get a response. The merchants are the one who really get hurt by the bad products (and you may also get a refund that way).

One more comment - I know you are hot, but a general statement about all Koreans just because a Korean company is acting in an apparently fraudualent way is, I believe, beneath you. It is like saying that just because Enron is a U.S.-based company then all U.S.-citizens are crooked. Just a suggestion to do a little editing...

I wouldn't admit defeat so easily. ReplayTV ended up swallowing a big loss in December of last year on that price mix up. They ended up giving away 1000s of dollars in subscription fees when everyone started complaining to the FTC, BBB & Attorney General.


Here are a few links to get you started.

FTC (http://www.ftc.gov/ftc/consumer.htm)
NJ Attorney General (http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/ocp/ocpform.htm)
Better Business Brueau (http://www.bbb.org/)

Sorry if my words offend but my experience with LG so far has demonstrated an indifference on the part of the Koreans in NJ and at their HQ. Emails and calls go unanswered or are treated frivolously. The ladies and genntlemen in Alabama seem embarrassed by the whole thing to the point of apologizing. I believe I can go so far as to say they have been chastised for trying to do their job.

The dealer was Value Electronics. They failed to do anthing after repeated requests from me.

This kind of fleecing of the American public is becoming rampant again. I used to own VCR's that lasted 5-8 yrs. with continuous daily use. Todays devices, while cheaper, tend to just last past the 90 day warranty before they show symptoms of distress. LGE's PVR as far as I can tell from this board has not worked as advertised for anyone. Some are more forgiving than others and with that kind of attitude one can only expect more of the same shoddy crap that does not perform as advertised. Americans chose regulation to make vehicles safer and more trustworthy. I see a future where electronic devices will have to meet minimum poperformance standards or be subject to fines.

One quick way to find places to put your opinion is by doing a Google search on keywords "LST-3410a" and "review". I know from past experience that some of those places are read by CE manufacturer reps. The more places you squeak, the more likelihood of getting grease.

Also, another avenue is to write letters (or email) to the editors for the various A/V-related magazines (Sound and Vision, etc). The letters won't get published but you hope it influences any upcoming reviews.

In the end, the BBB and NJ attorney general's office are probably the best way to get results quick. Also, make sure LG is aware of everything you do (even if they don't respond back).

Of course for the quickest resolution, filing a complaint with your CC company should do the trick since you don't even have the 3410a anymore.

Uuummm, I've posted at least a half a dozen times in this thread that my 3410 works as advertised for my setup (and I know I'm not the only one). I'm not looking for a flame war, but if we submit consumer electronics to the same legal extremes that we do some of our public entities (not that there aren't good reasons), we'll never have any cool new toys to try (or not).

I agree about what you said, Stanton. However, this is a specific case where the CE manufacturer is apparently not honoring the warranty. It concerns because,

1) I've talked with the LG customer service a few times and have received a similar response (never a call back, disinterested in fixing any problem, etc). A call to the corporate office produced the exact same response...no real interest in quality.

2) While I've only had one real problem so far, there is a history of some of these units failing based on conditions I can't control (broadcaster's signals, I believe). If I were to have additional problems it appears that the warranty is worthless since LG is failing to honor it. The warranty is part of the purchase price.

3) Some pressure on the manufacturer may get everyone an improved set of firmware. The only problem with that is there is not an easy way to get the new firmware without sending the whole setup into them and maybe getting your original unit back.

4) The idea of a company offering a refund, having a customer ship-back a unit and then deciding the refund isn't going to happen is offensive. That is something that should be stopped before other manufacturers decide that is a good business model.

So, I wish Art all the luck with his pursuit. If my 3410a fails like some of yours have, I'll be on the phone with LG for many hours. I'd prefer, however, that the broadcasters in this area continue to generate data that the LG knows how to handle...

Originally posted by MrHifi
Just to let everyone know--an official at LGE today told me that they have defective units stacked up "like cordwood". Requests from customer service for refunds are not being honored by the New Jersey offices. No device, no refund--Guess I'm fu..ed. Wish I'd never heard of LGE. $1,000.00 is a lot to loose. Looks like the Koreans are winning the Korean war even though we helped the little bastards in their time of need. Today I begin my public crusade against LGE..

Art,

I just returned my third defective unit this week and was promised a refund. It took over six weeks and several phone calls. Each time I called, I was promised that the shipping labels would arrive in two - three days. Each time they claimed to have talked to a different manager. (I think they just make this stuff up.) I am now in the same situation as you, waiting for my refund. I am very dismayed that they are now telling you that they will not honor the refund. If they are not going to give you back your money, what do they plan to do? They can't seriously think that we are going to let them keep our money and our DVRs. Even if I took this to small claims court, I'm sure to at least get some of my money back. Why would they have us ship the units (with all accessories) back to them, if they didn't intend on giving us back our money? Is it possible that the person you talked to was just misinformed and maybe the process is slower than we anticipated?

I, like Stanton, have had a good experience with my 3410. Also, any contact I have had with LG has been professional and responsive. I am not sure if there are sides to the above stories that we are not hearing, or not. Maybe I am just lucky, I don't know. I do know that when I called recently about a problem I had (was a confirmed Guide data issue) that the rep mentioned that LG Customer Service is undergoing a management change. Maybe that is a good thing for us customers.

I am another happy user.

We tend to use it for playback. I have had a 5 minute clip repeating for days on end without issue.

I have only seen one weird happening, and it has not repeated - so I count myself amongst the lucky (few?) happy users...

Cheers!
DAve.

PS. I hope you guys do get your refunds - it sounds like you are being treated badly!

Originally posted by Phloyd
I am another happy user.



Me too.

Yeah I think SOME of the issues with this unit all stem from that guide, if its not accurate in your location, you are going to have problems if you use it.

If you set the program channel and record times manually, you will probably see any guide related issue vanish, and they are a fair variety.

I also toggle the clock setting to auto once and then back to manual.

That why I get accurate time but its not subject to feed errors as the 3410a is on a UPS power backup.

Originally posted by ZZtop
If you set the program channel and record times manually, you will probably see any guide related issue vanish, and they are a fair variety.


Nope. even if I try to use VCR+ to get to the manual timer screen, everything flickers so badly you can't read much on the screen. If I stay in there for more than a few seconds, I get the green (or yellow) screen of death.

Must be LG's answer to Bill Gates.

2muchtv and PhillyC,

Do you know if anyone in the Chicago area has a working 3410a?

If anyone has a working 3410a in the Chicago metro area please post here asap.

The number of "bad" units per individual is way beyond bad luck.

Lew

Originally posted by lewlew
2muchtv and PhillyC,

Do you know if anyone in the Chicago area has a working 3410a?

If anyone has a working 3410a in the Chicago metro area please post here asap.

The number of "bad" units per individual is way beyond bad luck.

Lew

No, I don't personally know anyone else in Chicago with one of these things. While guide data in a specific area may be a factor, I no longer think it's the dominant cause of problems. You can see that troubles occur all over the country, even with the small sample in this forum.

And yes --- as you say and as I've said before, what are the odds of 25 people here getting multiple bad units if there is not a major flaw in the 3410A?

We now have heard of two LG CSR's that mentioned stacks of 3410A's on workbenches. Yet the buffer person who wouldn't let me talk to the electronics manager says there can't be a problem because there has been no recall.

PhillyC,

I'm going to start a different poll to see if the are particularily bad areas to be using a 3410a.

BTW, you didn't happen to ask the csr's if they used to work at BB?:D:D

Lew

Originally posted by KornerKlub
I, like Stanton, have had a good experience with my 3410. Also, any contact I have had with LG has been professional and responsive. I am not sure if there are sides to the above stories that we are not hearing, or not. Maybe I am just lucky, I don't know. I do know that when I called recently about a problem I had (was a confirmed Guide data issue) that the rep mentioned that LG Customer Service is undergoing a management change. Maybe that is a good thing for us customers.

Professional in tone, yes. Responsive, no.

They promise everything and talk like you're their next door neighbor, but they do nothing. I have notes on every call and e-mail to LG. They have NEVER kept a promise. NOT ONCE. People that were to call me back or have others call, DID NOT. Promises of timeliness are NEVER kept. As others have noted, they tell you three days to receive shiping labels, but it turns into three weeks. My replacement unit was supposed to be here within "72 hours" of LG receiving my broken unit. They received it last week, but I still don't have the replacement.

The "next level" person who gave me his name and said he was talking to management about all the problems did not call me as promised and now will not even get on the phone when I call. He is either "not in today" or "not at his desk right now". This is for the last two and a half weeks.

Yeah, I'd say a big management change is needed.

I have to second was PhillyC said. I have been promised many calls back from LG and never received a single one. No response to emails either.

I still think the problems are transmitted data problems (Guide and PSIP) and the LST-3410a's response to the transmission. It explains why almost all the units work in some areas but none of the units work in others. If that is true, it makes figuring out the cause more difficult since PSIP and Guide data could be good one day and then bad the next due to a problem at the station.

Has anyone's previously fully working 3410's problems begun only after they upgraded the units hard drive?

mkerdman,

Yes I definately had problems with 7200 RPM drive.

umr, what type of problems? My 250GB 7200 rpm is working fine.

Originally posted by mkerdman
While you cannot play a scheduled recording in progress, you can use all the PVR features like Pause Live TV, FFWD, REWIND and Still by another means.

1. Tune to the desired channel

2. Press Time Shift

ect.....



Thansk for the great tip. I do change stations during timeshift but I would use a VCR to record the program from the start If I could not watch it all at once. Since timeshift only keeps the last 30 mins. I never would dream of using the REC to get a timeshift program to disk. Great way to get a program to disk from timeshift.

Thanks
Mstanl

Originally posted by mstanl
Thansk for the great tip. I do change stations during timeshift but I would use a VCR to record the program from the start If I could not watch it all at once. Since timeshift only keeps the last 30 mins. I never would dream of using the REC to get a timeshift program to disk. Great way to get a program to disk from timeshift.

Thanks
Mstanl

mstanl

If you first press time shift and then Clip REC, the limit of the "buffer" is equal to the size of the remaining available space on your hard disk i.e. 2-12- hours- and if you ten press Clip REC and then STOP you will save the entire contents.

Originally posted by umr
mkerdman,

Yes I definately had problems with 7200 RPM drive.

umr

What I am wondering is if anyone had a good working 3410 that suddenly developed some of the brain damage described elsewhere in this thread after upgrading the hard drive.

I agree that a 5400 RPM drive is preferable for several reasons, but, what occurred with the 7200 RPM drive in your example?

mkerdman,

About everything that has been already reported. I had this with my old and current unit. The current unit only had problems when I swapped the drive. I have also added the fan since I found out how hot the thing was inside. No problems since with fan and original drive.

Prior unit had most of the previously mentioned problems with and without the new drive. I never installed a fan in that unit. At least one other person in Houston was having no problems at the same time. This does not sound like a guide or PSIP issue to me.

I used snapstream Live TV software last night on my PC.
It has the skip forward +30 seconds and -7 seconds back commands on its remote control. Man is that nice over the LG method of content smart skip "where did thay get the 'smart' name for it?".

LG calls it smart skip, then why do I need to hit that smart button so many times to skip the commercials. I us the drag + and then hit the smart - button and that still does not work very well.

Man, with the +30 I just hit it 6 times to skip a 2.75 minute commercial then hit the back -7 seconds 1 to 2 times to get back to the start of the program. Now that I have used both please just give me the +30 -7 method.

Just my view.
mstanl

It would be a dream if the 3410A worked as well as Snapstream at controling the video. Snapstream will completely skip the ads by pressing a single button (up arrow), which is really sweet when it works. Unfortunately is sometimes makes mistakes, but it is obvious when this happens and you can go back to the Skip +30 back -7 technique.

It also creates an XML file of when the comercial blocks start and end. Using that file it tooks just a few minutes to remove the commercials from an hour show and create a DVD. Actually creating the 2 hour DVD files takes a fair amount of time, but I've got the the editing down so well that I doubt it takes me more than a minute to remove the commercials from a show.

Originally posted by umr
mkerdman,

About everything that has been already reported. I had this with my old and current unit. The current unit only had problems when I swapped the drive. I have also added the fan since I found out how hot the thing was inside. No problems since with fan and original drive.

Prior unit had most of the previously mentioned problems with and without the new drive. I never installed a fan in that unit. At least one other person in Houston was having no problems at the same time. This does not sound like a guide or PSIP issue to me.

umr

I am still unclear.

Have people who had good working 3410's with the stock hard drive only begun to have problems after they upgraded to a larger hard drive?

I had problems only after the 7200 rpm hard drive was installed. It did not recover in the first case after removing it. The second unit had problems with it the 7200 rpm drive as well, but works with the original drive with a fan installed. Mine is not in a cabinet, but it still got very hot inside.

Originally posted by umr
I had problems only after the 7200 rpm hard drive was installed. It did not recover in the first case after removing it. The second unit had problems with it the 7200 rpm drive as well, but works with the original drive with a fan installed. Mine is not in a cabinet, but it still got very hot inside.

Have many people swapped the 3410's original 120GB hard drive for a Maxtor 300GB 5400 2MB cache hard drive, or similar, and had zero problems thereafter?

Are there any 300GB or larger external ata hdd, this would solve any heat issues and eliminate adding fans and not limit you to only a 5400RPM because it produces less heat?
joe

We are not getting enough input from people who upgarded their fully functional 3410 units hard drive, and, whether just the upgrade alone caused problems that made the unit less useable or entirley unuseable.

You cannot use an external FireWIre or USB hard drive.

You can place an "internal" hard drive outside the 3410 case and remove the heat with an IDE and power extension from the 3410 connected to one of these Kingwin KF-101-IPF Black Aluminum Mobile Rack for UDMA/ATA 66/100/133 Hard Drives like this:

http://shop4.outpost.com/product/3555114


With all the posts here it still very unclear to me whether problems first arose for people who upgraded their hard drives from units that were previoulsy perfect.

Can anyone shed some light on this specific point?

Just got a refurb unit back for my original. Came back without the demo pin in. SO no initial set up displayed. I immediately tried to set it up using RGB cables to Input 2 on a CMX 503, can get sound but no picture. set unit to RGB and PDP to either 1,2,3, 4 and 5 with no luck. changed cables, no luck. I knew the unit would need to sit for 24 hours before the guide would load but I also know if you manually load a channel it will get that channel. Again, the only thing I can get is sound no picture. I turned power off, removed power and removed demo pin. Turned all back on, again, no luck. Not sure if it is the 3410a or the PDP config problem. PDP works ok with both VCR and DVD. Can anyone help?

Thanks
Mike

Originally posted by AMMO
Just got a refurb unit back for my original. Came back without the demo pin in. SO no initial set up displayed. I immediately tried to set it up using RGB cables to Input 2 on a CMX 503, can get sound but no picture. set unit to RGB and PDP to either 1,2,3, 4 and 5 with no luck. changed cables, no luck. I knew the unit would need to sit for 24 hours before the guide would load but I also know if you manually load a channel it will get that channel. Again, the only thing I can get is sound no picture. I turned power off, removed power and removed demo pin. Turned all back on, again, no luck. Not sure if it is the 3410a or the PDP config problem. PDP works ok with both VCR and DVD. Can anyone help?

Thanks
Mike

Did you have your original 3410A set up the same way while successfully getting a picture o the PDP? Can you get a picture through the analog outs form the 3410A?

BTW, isn't this your 3rd unit? I thought you posted previously that you had a refurb with 1.14 firmware that did not work.

Ammo-

You need to set the display format output as described on page 23 of the owners manual. I received a new unit yesterday from LG and hooked it up to my Pio 433CMX this morning. My plasma is the little brother of yours. I had the same problem until I hit the Select button after setting the Display Format to YPbPr. I run mine in Native mode but your mileage may vary.

-Skip

AMMO,

Your post is a little confusing.

You say your replacement unit came back without the demo pin in it. Then you say you removed the demo pin. Was the pin loose in the box and you re-installed it?

On the 503CMX input 1 is RGB d-sub 15 pin. Input 2 is RGBHV (5 cables) or component (3 cables). If you are plugged into input 2 I'm guessing you are using the 3 cables with the 503 set to component. It might be possible that you have your cables plugged into one or more wrong females or have them mixed-up.

I personally have only used the dvi via A303 card.

Lew

Thank to all for immediate feedback.

Skipm,
It was the YPbPr selection that did it. Guess I was focused on RGB cause i was using the 3 cable set.

Lew,
It came back without the pin in. During trails I installed it and tried to follow the power down, pin out routine. Sorry for misleading you.

PhillyC,
I guess you could see this a 3rd unit. but not really, first purchased with firmware 1.12 had our problems and returned unit for firmware upgrade to 1.14 same SN came back and had same problems. Sent it back and received a different SN.

Again, I appreciate the immediate feedback, you folks are great.
Now I'll let it download the guide and see what happens.

FYI,
Expanded basic Comcast cable only this time, no box and I'll hold off on OTA until I feel comfortable with the unit.

Mike

I don't know if anyone has mentioned that there is a firmware version 1.15 available but I have one that I got from my dealer about two weeks ago as a replacement for a version 1.12 that I had some problems. I have had no problems yet with the new unit. I have a direct cable feed to the unit and OTA feed from from a roof antenna. I generally manually set up the recordings but I have used the guide a couple of times and have had no problems yet. The unit data is as follows:
S/W: MP1.15
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 7.1.20
Date:
01:19PM Apr.06.2004

I thought the guide was supposed to download only at night but I notice that the guide indicator often flashes during the day while the unit is turned off, indicating that it is receiving guide information.

Will someone refresh my memory on the procedure to check the firmware level?

Thanx,

-Skip

Skip,
To get the version data on the 3410A go to the menu. Next go to Setup and then go to Troubleshooting. Scroll down to the last item under Troubleshooting which is the version information.

Ok so thats a brand new version, does anyone understand whats different? Are sure about this ? Anyone else seen 1.15 ?

Originally posted by jlanzy
Are there any 300GB or larger external ata hdd, this would solve any heat issues and eliminate adding fans and not limit you to only a 5400RPM because it produces less heat?
joe

You dont need a faster hard drive, and there is some speculation sinces its video playback and not just in a pc, there might some bugs caused by a 7200rpm drive though no one has posted any yet.

Originally posted by ZZtop
Ok so thats a brand new version, does anyone understand whats different? Are sure about this ? Anyone else seen 1.15 ?

ZZtop, I am sure it is a 1.15. The reason I posted was that I had not seen any reference to a firmware higher than 1.14. I have no idea what has been changed or added to version 1.14. All I know is that the unit indicates in the menu that it is version 1.15.

ZZ,

I questioned the issue about a 7200rpm drive since hitachi has released a 400GB ata internal drive @ 7200rpm that I've been considering as a possible upgrade and if placed externally would eliminate any problems associated with heat. Although you indicate that heat may not be the only issue and that 5400rpm may be necessary to avoid problems a 7200rpm drive could produce.

Do you know in general what kind of problems other than heat a 7200rpm could produce in place of a 5400rpm unit?
joe

Yes, two different video engineers I know, that work with video on hard drives, say that the 7200rpm will cause issues with feedback to he circuits in the unit that might cause video and/or sound distortion.


They say this not necessarily so much as the unit is being used with slightly off spec hard drives, but that you have to keep in mind through the whole design and testing process LG used 5400 drives most likely as that is what all their PVR's have shipped with.


One of the two engineers also said off brand drives might cause all kinds of other issues to come into play. They used samsung drives at some point in the past and also Fujitsu drives. Both ended up in the garbage can as unuseable. The Fujitsu also whined like a kicthen mixer even though it was supposed to a 'quiet' operation drive in all modes.


These are just opnions mostly. Good luck!

Originally posted by Jcjep
ZZtop, I am sure it is a 1.15. The reason I posted was that I had not seen any reference to a firmware higher than 1.14. I have no idea what has been changed or added to version 1.14. All I know is that the unit indicates in the menu that it is version 1.15.

I am going to attempt to attach a photo of the menu of my 3410A indicating that it has 1.15 firmware. I hope I am successful.

HMMMMMMMMMMMMM,

vverrrryyyyyyyyyyyy

iiinnnnttteeerrrrreesssstttinnngg!

So this means that my replacement unit that is due to arrive Tuesday MUST have the 1.15 firmware, since anything currently sent out by LG should be the latest and greatest.

Any bets? Should we start a pool? :D

Originally posted by jlanzy
Do you know in general what kind of problems other than heat a 7200rpm could produce in place of a 5400rpm unit?
joe

I would think that current draw on the units power supply would be higher and possibly cause problems. These units do not have 400W power supplies like a computer does. Increased draw, over the design of the power supply, would cause the various regulators to work more and create more heat. It could also possibly cause less power to be available to other circuits in the unit.

Knowing how tight-lipped companies often are about their choices on components, it might be that a faster (PC) drive caused problems. Or at least, they might have designed the power supply with only the stock HD in place.

I just received my 2nd replacement unit on Fri 6/18. Here is the list of problems with the previous 2 units:

Unit 1: (SW: MP1.12, HW:10.4, Guide 7.1.20)
1) Hard drive mounting buzzed and had a vibration.
2) Frequent pixilation and image/sound freeze during timeshift. The recorded program has the freezes also. I always record analog programs on the highest quality. This would occur for all DTV/MP2 recordings also for all resolutions
3) This thing produces really big mpeg2 streams from standard def analog.
4) Occasinonally the DVI ouput would go blank. Either while changing channels or at power-up. Warm start fixes it.

Unit 2: (SW: MP1.12, HW:10.4, Guide 7.1.20)
1) All of the above problems except the drive is quiet.
2) The guide stopped updating.
3) BIG thermal problem. Big green band across the screen. For the first few weeks having a fan blow on it would fix it. After a while the thing would not output a clean picture. The audio would start popping also. This unit was a real POS!

Unit 3: (SW: MP1.14, HW:10.4, Guide 7.1.20) Just received it on 6/18/04
1) No problems so far. It is working perfectly in my very warm condo! It's been above 80F for hours and the unit works perfectly.
2) No image freeze issues. I'm guessing MP1.14 fixed this problem.
3) It's using about 3.5GB/hr for the highest quality analog standard def recording. I think my past units with MP1.12 SW used more space.


I'm much happier with this thing now! Just hope it keeps working the same.

Originally posted by ZZtop
Yes, two different video engineers I know, that work with video on hard drives, say that the 7200rpm will cause issues with feedback to he circuits in the unit that might cause video and/or sound distortion.


One of the two engineers also said off brand drives might cause all kinds of other issues to come into play. They used samsung drives at some point in the past and also Fujitsu drives. Both ended up in the garbage can as unuseable. The Fujitsu also whined like a kicthen mixer even though it was supposed to a 'quiet' operation drive in all modes.


These are just opnions mostly. Good luck!


Does "off brand drives" mean that even the Maxtor 300GB @5400rpm could be a problem or do you mean that ANY NON SEAGATE 5400rpm could be a problem?
joe

I hope the newer ones continure to work. I'm not sure what 1.14 is supposed to fix, but I know others here have reported the usual problems even with that version. Since we know that Jcjep purchased a unit from a dealer with 1.15, I seriously wonder why scenic would get a refurb direct from LG that has older firmware than a unit that made it all the way through the supply chain to a consumer. Version 1.15 must have been around for a while, yet LG does not automatically zap it onto replacement units leaving the repair facility?

I'd also like to see these boxes work for at least 6-8 months without problems before I believe they are really fixed. Several here (including mine) worked great for about 2 months before crashing. The longest working units would now be about 4 months old.

KornerKlub, I believe you had a 3410A early. How long has your been working?

I really liked this thing during the first 2 months. It would be nice if LG could really solve the problems.

Originally posted by PhillyC
So this means that my replacement unit that is due to arrive Tuesday MUST have the 1.15 firmware, since anything currently sent out by LG should be the latest and greatest.

Any bets? Should we start a pool? :D

I wouldn't bet on it. Received my second unit Friday. I was told I would receive a new replacement since mine was still under warranty when I sent it back. The replacement "looks" new but there is a sticker on the back that says "Reconditioned Rom Ver 1.14". Also, I find it ironic that the sticker is placed so that it covers up a few of the fan's slots.

I set it up yesterday morning and so far so good. I've been watching the U.S. Open coverage on it so I have about 15 hours on it so far. Startup seems to be a bit quicker, the clock is accurate and the guide is updating. I'll record something in HD tonite to give it the acid test. My original unit worked great until I recorded something and then it would hang up 9 out of 10 times at "HELLO". I suspect it had a hard drive issue.

Here's the vitals:

S/W: MP1.14
H/W: 10.4
DB: 4.15
Guide: 7.1.20
Date: 8:42pm Mar 3, 2004

It's been on for 6 hours today and the top feels warm to the touch but no warmer than any other component in my rack. I just noticed this was my third DVR, the others being a ReplayTV 5160 and a Motorola 6208. I really need to get a life. <grin>

-Skip

Skipm,

I also had a CSR at LG insist that I would receive a new replacement unit. Finally, two supervisors told me no way --- I could only get a refurb. As I posted previously, I happened to get that first CSR a second time and he once again insisted it would be NEW. When I put him in a verbal corner, he said it would have a "refurbished" sticker on it, but that I didn't understand LG's definition of "refurbished". OK, then!!

OK, after many months of trouble free service I have been bitten.

Tonight my TV Guide will not come up at all and there is no "info" description of any show.

When I press info multiple times I get and error message:

"Invalid AV1, AV2, HDD scheduled recording"

I have nothing scheduled.

What's the safest way to reset the guide data:

- unplugging the power, waiting ten minutes, and repluging the power

- using the Demo Pin

- reselecting and rescanning the channels (I have an OTA HD antenna and SD cable TV feeding the two RF inputs).


Any 3410 warriors out there with a successful recovery method?

I would suggest unplugging it over night and then re-entering the info.

Hopefully when you go into setup you will see its fully discharged.

The dreaded "phantom scheduled recording" can usually be cleared by unplugging for about 2 hours. Sometimes less. It varies. The prime concern here is that once this happens, you WILL see it again. My problems, while non-existent at first, kept increasing in frequency until the guide crashed the unit almost every time.

You may notice slightly different manifestations. The clock will reset to 12:00, or blank out. You might be able to reset it by hand if the phantom schedule doesn't appear. It's alway different. You may go into the guide and get the green screen of death.

Sorry to hear you've been bitten, but this is why I said earlier that I need to see one of these boxes work properly for 6-8 months before I'll believe LG has made a single good one or that they have cured the ailments.

Murray, also watch your initialization times (the time until the HDD usage bar appears) carefully. I've been using the usage bar as an indication of the 3410a's health. If you are noticing longer times you might try powering up and not do anything for about 30 minutes and then try powering-off until you see the Guide indicator stay on for a while. Then power-up and repeat the cycle. I did three days of this (plus a few file deletes) to restore my 3410a to normal health.

I sometimes wonder if we are all being too agressive when we attempt to fix the 3410a? The fix for the clock being wrong was to do nothing and in an hour the clock fixes itself. I wonder if some of the other issues go away if we just let things reload without touching the unit first? Just speculating since I also tried to fix the unit rather than letting it sit.

Above all, call LG and let them know they have another 3410a with an issue. You may find out something the rest of us haven't or you may just get the usual LG treatment.

Originally posted by alk3997
Murray, also watch your initialization times (the time until the HDD usage bar appears) carefully. I've been using the usage bar as an indication of the 3410a's health.


Andy

I have unplugged the unit and will try it again in a few hours, and, if nothing develops but the error message goes away, I will turn it off and leave it plugged in overnight.

I the error is still present after a few hours, I will leave it entirely unplugged overnight.

The good news (I think) is that the unit displayed the File Directory and correct HDD usage immediately when I pressed Program List and when I pressed Info I saw a blank program description, but the correct time and HDD Usage.

The unit also was happy to make a manual recording, but refused to go into VCR Plus mode at all.

Ah ye of little faith (me).

I plugged in the 3410 at about 8:55 PM after 45 minutes downtime.

It had all the Program List and TV Guide data intact.

It had locked up the clock at 5:12 PM, which, I manually changed.

I set it to record the Fleetwood Mac Concert on PBS (28.1 in L.A) at 9:00 PM.

It is recording as scheduled, and, all is well.

I have had worse resets and brain damage on my Dish and DirecTV DVR's.

Time will tell if it happens again, or, worse.

Originally posted by lewlew
2muchtv and PhillyC,

Do you know if anyone in the Chicago area has a working 3410a?

If anyone has a working 3410a in the Chicago metro area please post here asap.

The number of "bad" units per individual is way beyond bad luck.

Lew


I purchased a Panasonic DMR-E85HS DVD-Recorder for SD recording, after I realized the 3410a wasn't going to work for me. (I use my HDR-230 for HD recording) Ironically, it uses the same exact Gemstar TV-GUIDE software as the 3410a. I've had it for two months and have not had any problems. If the Gemstar data was the cause of my 3410a problems, then I would expect to see the same thing with the DMR-E85HS, but I'm not. It could be the way LG integrated the Gemstar software into their unit. However, I believe that there are a high number of defective 3410a units out there. LG keeps recycling them to customers, instead of giving them new ones. My two replacements were both labeled "Refurbished" on the back of the unit.

Murry,

Mine locked-up saturday evening Pacific time. It just sat there with "no signal" showing at 6.1. The only remote button to work was the power, however no hello or goodbye. Unplugged 5 minutes and replugged. Clock went to 2:45 (about 7hrs off). Worked for a little bit then locked-up again.
Unplugged for about 45 min replugged and did not turn it on. Clock came back to 2:45 exactly again.
Within half an hour the clock was right and the guide lite was on. I left it alone until sunday. Turned it on to set record for Fleetwood Mac( sound familiar?) . When I went to the guide I got the same message and choices about the guide and different channel numbers for the same program as I did a few weeks ago. After I made my choice, I was able to enter the guide and it was full. I set the program. It recorded and all seems fine again.

This seems to be another "guide attack".

Lew

Originally posted by 2muchtv
I purchased a Panasonic DMR-E85HS DVD-Recorder for SD recording, after I realized the 3410a wasn't going to work for me. (I use my HDR-230 for HD recording) Ironically, it uses the same exact Gemstar TV-GUIDE software as the 3410a. I've had it for two months and have not had any problems. If the Gemstar data was the cause of my 3410a problems, then I would expect to see the same thing with the DMR-E85HS, but I'm not. It could be the way LG integrated the Gemstar software into their unit. However, I believe that there are a high number of defective 3410a units out there. LG keeps recycling them to customers, instead of giving them new ones. My two replacements were both labeled "Refurbished" on the back of the unit.

Excellent post. Although the guide may be involved in our troubles, I believe the blame is all on LG.

I'm still amazed that after spending almost two weeks talking to LG people at different levels, they absolutely refused to send me a NEW unit. I thought that investing the time to explain the situation as made apparent in this forum would convince them to not send a recycled unit with someone else's problems, but to try a new one. What a company.

What we see,

"... but this is why I said earlier that I need to see one of these boxes work properly for 6-8 months before I'll believe LG has made a single good one or that they have cured the ailments."

We want to see is this unit work for months, But some of us measure it working in hours.

"It's been on for 6 hours today and the top feels warm to the touch ...."

Mine has worked 3 weeks well, without any problems now. I have never opened the case, but I have a UPS and 2 fans blowing on it 24*7.

When I had problems the clock would not set to the correct time even after over night, is there a way to set the clock to auto update?

Thanks
Mstanl

Originally posted by jlanzy
Does "off brand drives" mean that even the Maxtor 300GB @5400rpm could be a problem or do you mean that ANY NON SEAGATE 5400rpm could be a problem?
joe

I can't tell the answer to that one. Some people consider Samsung a major hard drive player now.

But I think everyone considers Seagate and Maxtor two major brand players. More important both have been used in the units. A big consideration here is absolutely flawless reliability and performance in the hard drive over the long term. So the Seagate and Maxtor drives with the longer warranties are better bets. I think most of this has been posted in this thread before by now.

There are several users who have 300mb Maxtor hard drives installed on this forum I believe.

This may be hard to believe, but I have been emailing someone at LG customer service who actually talked with their engineering folks. It turns out that the latest version of firmware is indeed version 1.15. Any 3410a's that go in for factory service are supposed to get version 1.15.

I don't know when the switch to 1.15 was made and I also don't know what the differences are between 1.12, 1.14 and 1.15. I know one of the differences was that 1.14 supposedly fixes the occasional freeze-frame problem.

Interestingly a recent magazine review on the 3410a indicated that new firmware would be needed to fix a problem where scheduled recordings did not occur because a digital station's signal could not be locked-in before the recording began. I wonder if 1.15 is the result of that problem?

I will attempt to find out more details.

Now how do we talk LG into letting the customer update their own firmware! You know they'll continue to weed out sw problems for months to come. It's a serious hassle to ship my unit to LG just for a 5 minute flash job.

I can confirm the timeshift freeze issue no longer occurs with MP1.14.

Originally posted by alk3997
This may be hard to believe, but I have been emailing someone at LG customer service who actually talked with their engineering folks. It turns out that the latest version of firmware is indeed version 1.15. Any 3410a's that go in for factory service are supposed to get version 1.15.

I don't know when the switch to 1.15 was made and I also don't know what the differences are between 1.12, 1.14 and 1.15. I know one of the differences was that 1.14 supposedly fixes the occasional freeze-frame problem.

Interestingly a recent magazine review on the 3410a indicated that new firmware would be needed to fix a problem where scheduled recordings did not occur because a digital station's signal could not be locked-in before the recording began. I wonder if 1.15 is the result of that problem?

I will attempt to find out more details.

Does this mean that only those who send there 3410a in for service get the upgraded firmware? Is there any other way to get the upgrade?

Originally posted by alk3997
This may be hard to believe, but I have been emailing someone at LG customer service who actually talked with their engineering folks. It turns out that the latest version of firmware is indeed version 1.15. Any 3410a's that go in for factory service are supposed to get version 1.15.

I don't know when the switch to 1.15 was made and I also don't know what the differences are between 1.12, 1.14 and 1.15. I know one of the differences was that 1.14 supposedly fixes the occasional freeze-frame problem.

Interestingly a recent magazine review on the 3410a indicated that new firmware would be needed to fix a problem where scheduled recordings did not occur because a digital station's signal could not be locked-in before the recording began. I wonder if 1.15 is the result of that problem?

I will attempt to find out more details.

This is exactly one of the problems I had. But it must be that the 3410A THINKS the signal is not locked in. On several occasions I watched as the DVR turned on for a scheduled recording, had perfect video and audio, then popped up a message that the recording could not take place because there was "no signal" to record.

Now let's see if my refurb (due tomorrow) has 1.15. If it doesn't, I guess I'll have to call LG, berate them some more, and insist they give me the latest firmware.

Will they try to charge the $90 fee?!?

What $90 fee is this? I've never sent in a unit to them yet since I never got an indication from LG customer service that they could actually fix any of the problems.

I'm supposed to get some more information on the changes shortly...

It's a fee for labor, which is only covered for the first 90 days. Of course, under the circumstances, we shouldn't get charged for multiple replacements. But LG hasn't admitted to a big problem yet.

Has anyone here with multiple exchanges, of which one took place after the 90 day period, been asked to pay the labor fee?

Originally posted by jlanzy
Does "off brand drives" mean that even the Maxtor 300GB @5400rpm could be a problem or do you mean that ANY NON SEAGATE 5400rpm could be a problem?
joe The only way to truly be "safe" would be to find the specs for the drive that comes in the unit and make sure that starting current and heat generated do not exceed that of the original drive.

FWIW, this type of thing is very common in all embedded products rather than computers designed to take a wide range of drives. Device qualification for a product is a rather lengthy and often painful procedure...

Originally posted by kucharsk
The only way to truly be "safe" would be to find the specs for the drive that comes in the unit and make sure that starting current and heat generated do not exceed that of the original drive.

FWIW, this type of thing is very common in all embedded products rather than computers designed to take a wide range of drives. Device qualification for a product is a rather lengthy and often painful procedure...

kucharsk

We seem to have had at least three or four confirmed success stories primarily with 250/300GB 5400RPM hard drive upgrades in the 3410 and no failures reported other than one in which a 250GB 7200 RPM drive was problematic.

Did I forget someone/something?

Originally posted by MrHifi
This kind of fleecing of the American public is becoming rampant again. I used to own VCR's that lasted 5-8 yrs. with continuous daily use. Todays devices, while cheaper, tend to just last past the 90 day warranty before they show symptoms of distress. The fact that a good HiFi VCR cost around $600 eight years ago compared to $99 today has nothing to do with it, right?

Open up a VCR from even the mid-to-late 1990s and compare with what's inside one from today; what used to be a raft of stamped metal, alignment screws and such allowing for long life and adjustment are now a set of plastic bits molded in place designed to be thrown out when they break or go out of alignment.

That's what happens when prices are forced down to that degree; heck look at a DVD player from 1997 that was $800 and a $79 Sony from Best Buy and you'll see the same thing.

For better or worse, consumers don't want quality, they want low price as they'll just replace it with something else for another $79 when it breaks anyway. :(

Originally posted by mkerdman
We seem to have had at least three or four confirmed success stories primarily with 250/300GB 5400RPM hard drive upgrades in the 3410 and no failures reported other than one in which a 250GB 7200 RPM drive was problematic.
I'm not saying it won't work, I was saying what one had to do to be "safe."

There are tolerances in everything, and of course good engineering dictates that one design a power supply with a large margin for error, but that certainly doesn't mean there won't be heat or other long-term issues with some of these drive swaps.

When embedded products are designed, specific devices are qualified often based on their power draw and heat dissipation, among other things. Certainly the 3410a was never designed for users to just swap in whatever hard drive they wanted to, and as such there may be issues that crop up in the future. When swapping out drives, one should try to find a device that matches the specs (other than capacity) of the original drive as closely as possible to avoid any possible issues down the road...

Originally posted by kucharsk
I'm not saying it won't work, I was saying what one had to do to be "safe."
When swapping out drives, one should try to find a device that matches the specs (other than capacity) of the original drive as closely as possible to avoid any possible issues down the road...

kucharsk

There are those here who would challenge the notion that LG adhered to such rigid engineering standards as you have described.

By example though, a great many people have upgraded the hard drives in Tivo STB's with no widespread reports of any ill effects.

However, sticking with 5400 RPM drives seems a wise choice.

Thanks everyone for your input into this. It seems that so far that the largest capacity hdd that so far no one has reported problems with is the..

Maxtor 300GB 5400RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model 5A300J0, OEM Drive Only
Model# 5A300J0
Item # N82E16822144323

Specifications:
Capacity: 300GB
Average Seek Time: 10 ms
Buffer: 2MB
Rotational Speed: 5400 RPM
Interface: IDE ULTRA ATA133
Features: not specified
Manufacturer Warranty: 3 years
Packaging: OEM Drive Only

Is this the model and proper interface that has been used?
thanks,
joe

I've been told there is no fee for the firmware upgrade. Hopefully I'll have a bit more information shortly (shortly may be days) on the new firmware.

Originally posted by alk3997
I've been told there is no fee for the firmware upgrade. Hopefully I'll have a bit more information shortly (shortly may be days) on the new firmware.

Andy,

Tell them that Samsung allows user firmware upgrades with their very similar SIR-T165, as do most all other consumer electronics companies.

The 3410 has a rear panel serial port just for this purpose.

I have updated the firmware on my Toshiba/Infocus projector three times by USB.

They could have the user accept a EULA that stipulates LG is not responsible for firmware upgrade screw ups under warranty.

I went around and around with them on the LG 3200 and they would not release the software to the public because they had some kind of concern about someone hacking the software. It appears that, through their software someone coould possibly disable or descramble some signals and/or features. I know on the D* boxes, there was some talk that with the software hacked you could receive programming without an access card, in theory.

Basically, I wold not hold my breath waiting for LG to give you software.

[/QUOTE] Originally posted by KornerKlub
I went around and around with them on the LG 3200 and they would not release the software to the public because they had some kind of concern about someone hacking the software. It appears that, through their software someone coould possibly disable or descramble some signals and/or features. I know on the D* boxes, there was some talk that with the software hacked you could receive programming without an access card, in theory.

Basically, I wold not hold my breath waiting for LG to give you software. [/QUOTE]

KornerKlub

A firmware upgrade just writes instructions to the EPROM and does not contain a complete copy of their 3410 embedded software application.

Even if it did, without the source code it would be pretty useless anyway.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
It appears that, through their software someone coould possibly disable or descramble some signals and/or features.

KornerKlub

Also, there's absolutely nothing you could be inside a 3410 that would allow you to view or record encrypted & 5C copy protected Cable HDTV channels like HBOHD.

Hey, I was just saying, Don't hold your breath for LG to release firmware.

My example was mainly based on the 3200, which has the exact same tuner as the 3410. Then, why does the 3200 not tune QAM?.... because it is disabled in the software.

And from what I have seen/heard, LG does re-write/re-issue the software code in an update. It is the complete software, not simply updated code.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Hate to ask again but has anyone received a refund from LGE? I mean real money in your hands. I sent my second one back for a refund in early April and I'm still waiting. This company should be banned from doing business in the US.

Heres a story that will sound familiar to you MR Hifi. I requested a refund back in the middle of May when my Second unit failed. It went thru all the admin stuff and was approved and they said a check would be cut on June 20th. I have been calling them almost daily to make sure there were no snags and they kept saying that my check would in fact be cut on June 20th. Granted June 20th was on a Sunday so that should have been a clue to what was about to happen. A few days ago a replacement unit showed up at my doorstep, which i did not ever request. So i called LGE and the CSR said that they didn't even know that another replacement unit was sent to me but thanked me for my honesty and said that my refund was still scheduled to be to be cut on the 20th and that they would also send me a return mailing for this other unit. So I called today to find out if my refund check was cut yet and sent out. The CSR (Cynthia) put me on hold for like five minutes then came back and told me that i had to send this other unit back ( one which I never requested I may add and only the unit came in the box, no remote,no cables, nothing. I had sent all that back with the second unit ) before they could process my check. This is BS. I might as well just kiss that 1000 dollars goodbye !!!!

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Hey, I was just saying, Don't hold your breath for LG to release firmware.

My example was mainly based on the 3200, which has the exact same tuner as the 3410. Then, why does the 3200 not tune QAM?.... because it is disabled in the software.

And from what I have seen/heard, LG does re-write/re-issue the software code in an update. It is the complete software, not simply updated code.


KornerKlub

LG is not alone in protecting the firmware upgrade process.

Some companies use proprietary remotes that need to be sent from customer to customer and others, as LG, demand that he unit come back to them.

Since they pay for the shipping and labor on units in warranty they are very reluctant to publicize new firmware or admit it could help in your particular situation.

It's usually the opposite.

Unless you have exactly the problem that was addressed by the new code they will tell you it does not apply to your situation.

However, if it ain't broke don't fix it.

Hi, folks,

My replacement 3410A arrived today. The refurb sticker on the back says version 1.14, but the on screen menu shows 1.15. Hey! LG did something right (sort of). The unit booted up OK and I ran the channel scan. Now we'll see what happens overnight.

BTW, this unit is older than my original. It has a lower S/N, which ends with 328. It could have belonged to one of you. If so, I'd like to know it's history of problems.

All 3 units I've had now have the plastic protective film on the front panel. I removed it from all of them. Has anyone received a refurb units that has this film missing? We might be getting new or partialy new internals with these units.

Also there could be import/tax/duty benifits to calling all exchanges refurb's.

No plastic film here. And, as I said, the S/N is lower than my original, apparently from that famous first batch in February.

Originally posted by PhillyC
Hi, folks,

BTW, this unit is older than my original. It has a lower S/N, which ends with 328. It could have belonged to one of you. If so, I'd like to know it's history of problems.

Philly-

You got my old unit!!! Too funny. My new old unit is also older than the original. My first had a serial number that ended in 328. My current unit's serial number ends in 108. Did this one belong to anyone here?

Philly, like I've said before, 328 worked perfectly until I recorded something. Then it wouldn't basically get past "HELLO". At one point I pulled it out of my rack for a month and went back to my Samsung SIR-T151. Then I noticed that the warranty was about to expire so I sent it back to LG and waited, and waited, and waited some more. I called them the first of last week and and they sent 108 out immediately. My feeling is that the problem with 328 was the hard drive. I never had an issue with the guide or anything else. It was purchased from Georgia Home Theater in Atlanta and it was one of the first units available. I can send you a copy of the receipt if you like. Take good care of her, I did. <grin>

-Skip

Originally posted by Skipm
Philly-

You got my old unit!!! Too funny. My new old unit is also older than the original. My first had a serial number that ended in 328. My current unit's serial number ends in 108. Did this one belong to anyone here?

Philly, like I've said before, 328 worked perfectly until I recorded something. Then it wouldn't basically get past "HELLO". At one point I pulled it out of my rack for a month and went back to my Samsung SIR-T151. Then I noticed that the warranty was about to expire so I sent it back to LG and waited, and waited, and waited some more. I called them the first of last week and and they sent 108 out immediately. My feeling is that the problem with 328 was the hard drive. I never had an issue with the guide or anything else. It was purchased from Georgia Home Theater in Atlanta and it was one of the first units available. I can send you a copy of the receipt if you like. Take good care of her, I did. <grin>

-Skip

Well, YOU may think it's funny... :)

I just did a manual timer recording. It looks good and the unit started OK when I turned it on afterward. (Hurray!) Maybe there is some hope for this one. If it was a HDD problem, that would have been easy enough to replace.
I'm somewhat encouraged for two reasons: 1) You did not have the typical problems and 2) this box did not come from the same place I bought mine, which seemed to have problems with many of the 3410A's they shipped.

It sounds as if you did not use the box a lot, though, so maybe it didn't have enough hours on it to develop problems. I don't usually record much in the summer, but I'll be giving this thing a workout to see how it acts.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I'll take care of ol' #328 if it takes care of me. I hope your replacement works OK.

Someone once said, you can't go swimming if you don't get wet.

So, I liberated a Maxtor 300GB-5400RPM-2MB Cache hard drive from a PC and installed in my LG 3410 in place of the stock Seagate 120GB-5400RPM-2MB Cache hard drive.

Maxtor:

+5V 585 mA
+12v 690 mA

Seagate:

+5v .72 A
+12v .35A

Results: Available Time HD: 31:55 SD 61:55

After much deliberation I determined it was unwise to hack a fan into the case and burden the funky 3410 power supply board with any load for which it was not originally "engineered".

I have a CoolIt2 fan system above the tuner running at all times at which
the unit exceeds 91 degrees.

I took the time to put (4) 1/2 inch spacers under each of the feet as the hard drive vents through the bottom of the case.

The Guide came right up, so, it obviously is resident in non-volatile RAM of some sort, and, all my other settings and preferences were intact, except the clock was re-started as of the exact time at which I unplugged the unit 3 hours earlier.

I reset the clock manually, and have scheduled two 30 minute test recordings from the TV Guide.

I also determined that at least for now, running the IDE cable to an external HDD enclosure with an easy tray swap mechanism was pushing my luck as it was not originally "engineered" to be done that way.

Seriously, I think that an IDE cable of no more than 8-12" is highly unlikely to introduce RF or other data corrupting interference.

But, what do I know?

Why are you concerned about adding a 50 mA fan when you are adding 340 mA to the 12V system with the HD?

Originally posted by PhillyC
It sounds as if you did not use the box a lot, ....

Philly-

I used it approximately 20 hours a week for the first month and a half, then I removed it from my system for a month and then it was sent to LG. I purchased it on March 5th.

I'm a little jealous that you received newer firmware than I did but so far I can't complain. My new old unit has worked flawlessly so far.

Good luck!

-Skip

Originally posted by umr
Why are you concerned about adding a 50 mA fan when you are adding 340 mA to the 12V system with the HD?

umr

With all the reported peculiarities and failures reported on the 3410, and with the odd hot running power supply board it employs, I think it unwise to present it with any additional load no matter how minimal.

I plan to attach a 40X40 exhaust fan to the exterior side of the blank fan back panel cut out and power it from a separate near by 400 watt PC power supply.

BTW, after upgrading the hard drive, my scheduled recordings all worked fine, and, I successfully recorded three things from DVHS to the 3410 hard drive for editing.

Interestingly, the recordings I made from DVHS to the 3410 hard drive (which were recorded to DVHS tape from the 3410's 120GB original hard drive) recorded fine, but, presented broken up X5 FFWD and RWND and while they would correctly do slow motion playback, would not do frame by frame advance.

So, something is lost in the dump to-from DVHS and the 3410.

Murray,

I've seen the FFWD and RWND breakup on selected DVHS recordings, but it is not consistent from recording to recording. I am pleased to report that this box does strip null packets, so available recording time is usually longer than reported in the program list.

I have completed a (reversible) modification for swappable drives. I used an older ADS Pyro 1394 Firewire enclosure as the housing for an InClose drive bay/drive tray system. I will try to post some pics later this evening. Anyone attempting to make a drive swapping setup must use the supply from inside the 3410. I tried powering the drive from the Firewire enclosure's supply, which worked for a while. But I lost all the data on the drive when the 3410 powered up with the ADS already powering the drive, and somehow the 3410 did not recognize the drive as 'one of its own'. It immediately performed a drive initialization. OUCH.

-Dylan

Originally posted by dahester
Murray,

I've seen the FFWD and RWND breakup on selected DVHS recordings, but it is not consistent from recording to recording. I am pleased to report that this box does strip null packets, so available recording time is usually longer than reported in the program list.

I have completed a (reversible) modification for swappable drives. I used an older ADS Pyro 1394 Firewire enclosure as the housing for an InClose drive bay/drive tray system. I will try to post some pics later this evening. Anyone attempting to make a drive swapping setup must use the supply from inside the 3410. I tried powering the drive from the Firewire enclosure's supply, which worked for a while. But I lost all the data on the drive when the 3410 powered up with the ADS already powering the drive, and somehow the 3410 did not recognize the drive as 'one of its own'. It immediately performed a drive initialization. OUCH.

-Dylan

Dylan

Please post detailed pictures and descriptions of your mod.

If you can, please include all the relevant elements of the IDE and Power connections, the length of the connectors successfully tested, what holes you may have drilled in your 3410 back or top panel, and, if and how you reseated the 3410 case cover.

I am interested in using an aluminum removable tray system that I would mount inside my cabinet directly above the 3410.

Maybe this one:

http://www.kingwin.com/pdut_detail.asp?LineID=&CateID=25&ID=135

BTW, 169Time DVHS recordings, particularly those from a Dish 6000, can be played through the 3410, and, if it is a program with commercials, you can first transfer the DVHS tape to the 3410 HDD and then use the "trick-play" features of the 3410 to skip the ads.

Originally posted by dahester
I've seen the FFWD and RWND breakup on selected DVHS recordings, but it is not consistent from recording to recording. I am pleased to report that this box does strip null packets, so available recording time is usually longer than reported in the program list.
-Dylan

Dylan

I have also noted that the 3410 logs different, more efficent, GB/hr. rates depending on program resolution (480P, 720P, 1080i) and transmission compression scheme.

Murray,

The KingWin will do the job, but the drive bay is probably very light and needs to be affixed to something to make it easier to insert and remove the trays. I got lucky and happened to have an unused (and unreliable, but that's another story) ADS Firewire enclosure that I'm simply using as a container for the drive bay. The enclosure has great rubberized feet to keep it from sliding around.

The main goals with this mod. are to make drive swapping easy while not doing any damage or mods to the LG's case, seeing as many of these units like to flake out, requiring an exchange.

A picture is worth 1000 words here, but suffice it to say I just placed the drive enclosure on top of the LG box, and snuck a long IDE ribbon cable out the back, under the top plate, with the four wires for power poking through the fan holes on the rear. I disabled the fan on the Firewire enclosure (the drive bay has its own fan that provides some ventilation) and poked the power connections through the fan vent. The IDE cable easily slides under the top plate lid of the enclosure. More later...

-Dylan

Originally posted by dahester
Murray,

The KingWin will do the job, but the drive bay is probably very light and needs to be affixed to something to make it easier to insert and remove the trays. I got lucky and happened to have an unused (and unreliable, but that's another story) ADS Firewire enclosure that I'm simply using as a container for the drive bay. The enclosure has great rubberized feet to keep it from sliding around.

The main goals with this mod. are to make drive swapping easy while not doing any damage or mods to the LG's case, seeing as many of these units like to flake out, requiring an exchange.

A picture is worth 1000 words here, but suffice it to say I just placed the drive enclosure on top of the LG box, and snuck a long IDE ribbon cable out the back, under the top plate, with the four wires for power poking through the fan holes on the rear. I disabled the fan on the Firewire enclosure (the drive bay has its own fan that provides some ventilation) and poked the power connections through the fan vent. The IDE cable easily slides under the top plate lid of the enclosure. More later...

-Dylan

Dylan

Is the InClose all plastic, or, is it aluminum like the Kingwin?

So, I assume you were able to "fold" the IDE cable under the LG chassis cover and still screw it closed- correct?

How long is your IDE cable?

I have several enclosures, but, none worth trashing as they do work.

I found this for $25.00:

http://www.iwin2win.com/52usb20exenh.html

I'll look forward to your pictures.

One real nice use for the just released FireBus™ DTV Recorder Version 1.0 might be if this works with the the LG 3410 and 169Time STB's.

If you have both an LG 3410 and a 169Time device and are reading this, consider downloading the trial below and see if you can capture the 169Time streams and play them back through a non-daisy chain direct connection between your PC and your LG 3410.

You will probably need to set the FireBus up as a "D-VHS" and make a single FireWire connection to the 3410.

The trick may be in selecting a particular "tape" (file) to play.

The unzip function seems to be tricky and may require a "ecure" unzip utility like Winzip 8.1 SR-1 or SecureZIP:

http://www.pkware.com/products/enterprise/win/

-------------------------------------

FireBus Recorder v1.0 discussion thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=416078

-------------------------------------

Vividlogic, Inc. is pleased to announce the release of FireBus™ DTV Recorder Version 1.0. This software allows you to record and playback DTV movies (HD and SD Unencrypted movies/content only) using the PC you already own.

FireBus™ DTV Recorder Version 1.0 may be downloaded from the following
URL:

http://www.vividlogic.com/products/DTVRecorder_1_0.zip

The software allows evaluation for a period of 30 days from the date of installation. During the evaluation period, you can record HD/SD contents in the clear for a duration of 30 minutes only. If you like the software, you may purchase the full version from http://store.yahoo.com/vividlogicusa/index.html and activate it.

Thank you very much for your patience and valuable feedback during the Beta testing. We look forward to your continued feedback so that we can continue to improve the product. Please write to us at support@vividlogic.com

Sincerely,
support@vividlogic.com

-----------------------------------------

Murray,
The InClose trays are plastic. They work fine as long as you don't install and remove the drives from the tray much (the IDE cable connector will fall apart after a few insertions/removals). They do make a reliable connection when the tray is inserted into the bay.

I'm using an 18" IDE cable with no issues so far.
The USB tray you linked to must be deep enough to accomodate the drive bay (unfortunately most are not).

Front view is attached.

Originally posted by dahester
Murray,
The InClose trays are plastic. They work fine as long as you don't install and remove the drives from the tray much (the IDE cable connector will fall apart after a few insertions/removals). They do make a reliable connection when the tray is inserted into the bay.

I'm using an 18" IDE cable with no issues so far.
The USB tray you linked to must be deep enough to accomodate the drive bay (unfortunately most are not).

Dylan

Congrats!

You are a pioneer my friend.

The Kingwin tray system is aluminum and a bit more rugged than some of the plastic tray systems I have bought in the past.

How noisy is the InClose fan?

Are you intending to shuttle between multiple hard drives?

While a PC needs to only be powered down to swap trays, I would assume you would want to unplug the 3410 before shuttling drives.

Do you have any heat concerns with the 3410 with the ADS enclosure right on top?

Originally posted by mkerdman

How noisy is the InClose fan?


The InClose fan is slightly louder than the noise of the hard drive, but not annoying. The fan I disabled on the ADS enclosure is far louder.


Are you intending to shuttle between multiple hard drives?


Not sure I understand your question. Once a drive fills up with material I intend to keep, I will swap it out for an empty drive. I have no idea if the drives are swappable among multiple LST-3410s, however. If someone has two 3410s this would be a good experiment.


While a PC needs to only be powered down to swap trays, I would assume you would want to unplug the 3410 before shuttling drives.


Actually, turning the unit 'off' with the power button causes the drive to spin down and power down. So no unplugging is needed to switch drives.


Do you have any heat concerns with the 3410 with the ADS enclosure right on top?


Well, I need to do something about the heat in the long term. I am not covering up any ventilation holes with the ADS on top. The 3410 is slightly cooler without the drive inside, but it's still too warm. I can't believe the LG engineers did not put heat sinks on any of the ICs. If I wasn't afraid of having to exchange this unit for another somewhere down the road I'd slap heat sinks on at least two of the ICs.

-Dylan

I don't think anyone has mentioned it here yet, though in 58 pages, I might have missed it, but there have been two reviews of the 3410 in the press lately. The lastest issues of both Sound & Vision and The Perfect Vision reviewed the unit, and neither one made mention of the problems that seem to be plaguing this box. I'm sure it was because they didn't have it as long as others here on the forum have.

But maybe some of you who have had problems would write in to these two publications and mention your experiences? I don't know if it would help, but maybe getting the industry rags involved couldn't hurt? Certainly from reading both reviews, the uneducated, non-AVS member, would probably buy one right away. I'm glad I did my research up front, as I was seriously looking at one of these for my HT, and now I'm glad I haven't. I'm sorry to hear of all the problems that folks are having, both with the units and with customer "service."

I sincerely hope LG either fixes the units (preferably with new boxes, rather than recycled ones) or actually issues the refund checks. This box was about what I wanted in my HT, and would like to get a box with an on-board PVR and the ability to dump to an archive device. But take it to heart, at least you have been able to protect at least one other AVS member from the 3410A. :D

I canceled my subscription to S & V because of the industry influence. The reviews became very stilted in the last 6 years.

Now that I too have already successfully upgraded the LG 3410 DVR with a single Maxtor 300GB IDE drive, I am wondering if the Areca ARC 5010 Internal IDE to IDE RAID Subsystem could present itself the 3410 as a single logical IDE drive.

http://www.areca.us/IDERAID.htm

I am wondering if the ARC 5010 needs a PC Host to work as it seems to be designed as a three or four 5.25" bay filler.

So, I am a little confused about whether the Areca ARC 5010 Internal RAID Subsystem can act as a 1TB (+/-) IDE drive for the 3410.

Is the ARC 5010 RAID HW and HDD's all in the multi-bay enclosure which provides a single logical drive IDE connection and only requires +12v?

This report is for those of you who have had problems with the 3410 not turning off following making a recording. Mine was still on when I returned from a 3 week trip during which it made several recordings for me. The problem is that no guide info. is downloaded as long as the box is on. Subsequently, it went from turning off sometimes to never turning off after recording, regardless of whether I scheduled by "Guide", date and time or VCR+. I had just arranged to return it for a replacement, but had to leave for 3 days, so I gave it one more try. I noticed that there were several programs selected for regular recording; these were all programs that had gone into summer hiatus. After I deleted all of these, the box began turning off after recording. It performed flawlessly during my trip.

At this point, I'm reluctant to return it for such a minor glitch while taking the chance of getting much worse problems. I hope this information helps someone.

My refurb with 1.15 firmware has been working OK for 4 days. None of the usual problems have shown up.

But a new oddity has presented itself. I've been testing the unit by recording random programs. Two nights in a row, I scheduled back to back programs to record ONCE. They were recorded succesfully, but the schedule then showed the second program set to record once AGAIN the next night.

A slightly different, and more confusing variation: I recorded a ball game ONCE on Friday afternoon with additional time of 1 hour added on. This was from 3:00 to 7:00. Again, it was successful. But now the schedule shows a similar ball game set to record once on Sunday from 2:00 to 6:00!! Same number of hours, different time slot, two days later!?!

If everything else continues to work, I'll be OK. But I thought I'd mention another weird LG glitch, which will need further experimentation.

Short up date, It is going on 4 weeks now and no problems with the box.
I record 1 show per day 1/2 hour long, plays just fine. Also timeshift programs at night.

mstanl

Originally posted by PhillyC
I've been testing the unit by recording random programs. Two nights in a row, I scheduled back to back programs to record ONCE. They were recorded succesfully, but the schedule then showed the second program set to record once AGAIN the next night.

A slightly different, and more confusing variation: I recorded a ball game ONCE on Friday afternoon with additional time of 1 hour added on. This was from 3:00 to 7:00. Again, it was successful. But now the schedule shows a similar ball game set to record once on Sunday from 2:00 to 6:00!! Same number of hours, different time slot, two days later!?!


PhillyC

OK, I've got a good oddity along the same lines.

I recorded Sheryl Crow Part 1 of 2 on PBS last week using TV Guide, and, the 3410 scheduled Part 2 broadcast this week all on it's own.

Mkerdman -
How much does that arc 5010 RAID subsystem cost? I spotted this one, which seems to not require a PC:
http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_info.php/products_id/578

But it costs too much for what use I'd have for it.

Originally posted by Hyrax
Mkerdman -
How much does that arc 5010 RAID subsystem cost? I spotted this one, which seems to not require a PC:
http://fwdepot.com/thestore/product_info.php/products_id/578

But it costs too much for what use I'd have for it.

Hyrax

I have written them to get a price and availability.

Originally posted by mkerdman
PhillyC

OK, I've got a good oddity along the same lines.

I recorded Sheryl Crow Part 1 of 2 on PBS last week using TV Guide, and, the 3410 scheduled Part 2 broadcast this week all on it's own.

Interesting. This happened twice on PBS and once on WGN. It has not happened since. Which firmware version do you have? I have 1.15. I'm not sure what this behavior means.

My replacement unit is otherwise perfect so far. The guide filled in for the entire eight days without a glitch. My setup is somewhat different than with my first unit. I now have cable HD. I stil have the OTA HD channels, which I can manually tune, but I have not tried to include them in the guide, which seemed to foul things up before.

I would be very careful when considering an external RAID solution here. I can tell you that the 3410 is very sensitive to the power up sequence of the hard drive. When I powered the drive externally (using the ADS Firewire enclosure's supply) I lost all my recordings on the drive because when the 3410 powered up, it did not recognize the drive as one of its own. Don't be fooled by the 'Do you want to initialize the drive?' message; if you ever see this message you have already lost your recordings! Imagine the dozens of hours you spend loading your drive array with HD recordings, only to watch the array get trashed next time you power it up because the LG didn't get the power up response it was expecting from a single drive.

-Dylan

Originally posted by dahester
I would be very careful when considering an external RAID solution here. I can tell you that the 3410 is very sensitive to the power up sequence of the hard drive. When I powered the drive externally (using the ADS Firewire enclosure's supply) I lost all my recordings on the drive because when the 3410 powered up, it did not recognize the drive as one of its own. Don't be fooled by the 'Do you want to initialize the drive?' message; if you ever see this message you have already lost your recordings! Imagine the dozens of hours you spend loading your drive array with HD recordings, only to watch the array get trashed next time you power it up because the LG didn't get the power up response it was expecting from a single drive.

-Dylan

Dylan,

Yes, that's a cautionary tale if I ever heard one.

Have you had any problems at all with your external ADS-enclosed hard drive that you have powered directly from the 3410?

Have you tested the 3410 by swapping two different hard drives inserted into the ADS enclosure while only powering the 3410 off by remote/front panel, but not unplugging it?

Murray,

To be safe I am unplugging the unit between drive swaps. So far so good. I'm afraid to experiment too much right now since my drives are filling up, but when I get two empty drives again I will see if I can just power the unit off from the remote or front panel to do the swap.

-Dylan

Dylan,

I take it your drive swaps are going smoothly when you unplug the 3410 in the manner you described.

Let us know when you move to swap drive by remote/front panel off only.

I just received the KingWin tray system and need to find a cheap stable 5.25" External Enclosure to hack for this purpose.

Originally posted by PhillyC
Which firmware version do you have? I have 1.15. I'm not sure what this behavior means.

My replacement unit is otherwise perfect so far. The guide filled in for the entire eight days without a glitch.

I just got my replacement, yesterday. It has 1.15, and my reason for replacement was lack of guide data after a while (started out ok, degenerated to no guide data at all). I plugged it in, this morning, ran the scan, and turned it off to allow for updates during the day.

Your experience makes me optimistic that it will work now. Thanks.

--Mike

Wow! Am I glad I never got this unit. I was so looking forward to it.

Unless LG cuts the price in half, I'll wait for a Tivo version.(Not the DirectTV model.) Even if that means a couple more years of a VCR.

This may be a bit premature since not many people have an LST-3410a with version 1.15 firmware, but...

Has anyone had any problems (with the exception of the semi-Tivo-like extra recordings mentioned above) with firmware version 1.15?

Originally posted by alk3997
This may be a bit premature since not many people have an LST-3410a with version 1.15 firmware, but...

Has anyone had any problems (with the exception of the semi-Tivo-like extra recordings mentioned above) with firmware version 1.15?

I have had my 3410A version 1.15 since May 27th and I have had no problems with the unit freezing up or with the Gemstar guide. I had problems with both when using two different 1.12 versions that I previously had. The unit is connected directly to the cable outlet and I use no cable box. The unit is also connected to a roof antenna which lets me view 8 local DTV stations and multiplex channels on some of them. I have Comcast cable but am only able to receive CBS, NBC and Fox via the QAM tuner since our local Comcast scrambles all other channels carrying HD signals. The unit has worked seamlessly with Gemstar. It downloaded the guide the first night without any problems. I have not lost the guide once with this unit. I have recorded about 7 to 10 hours a week using both the guide and the manual recording process with no problems so far. Knock on wood!

Originally posted by Jcjep
I have recorded about 7 to 10 hours a week using both the guide and the manual recording process with no problems so far. Knock on wood!

Just don't knock on the 3410A. It might change something. :D

Seriously, mine is working for a week now with NONE of the previous problems. I've never seen the guide (and everything else) behave so well.

I received my $999.99 refund today. 4 months of waiting. Thanks you Norita and Barbara at the LGE customer service in Alabama. 47 calls.

My 3410A was fine for the first 3 months, but has started locking up and/or losing the guide data the last couple of weeks. A few weeks ago my guide data started listing digital (non-HDTV) cable stations with numbers in the high hundreds (e.g. 512). I think my problems may have started about that time. Anyway, I can no longer count myself among those with a problem free 3410A. :(

I will send my unit back for a "swap" and hopefully get one with the newer version 1.15 code. I hope that fixes the problem! (I really do like the unit when it is working.)

If it's been working OK for that long, it seems to me that you'd be better off clearing the memory and "starting over" on the setup. I had to do that after a power failure, and it's the only time I had a problem (yes, I added a UPS). Sometimes the devil you DO know is better than the one you DON'T know. Remember, this thing is apparantly sensitive to (bad) guide data, so it might recover with a fresh start.

MrHiFi,

Glad to hear LG finally came through with the bucks.


fp4me,

Sounds familiar. My experience is different than Stanton's. My unit got progressively worse once the channel remapping, etc. started. Clearing, unplugging for hours/days, did not help.

The good news is that my refurb with 1.15 is still working flawlessly, except for the three times during the first week it scheduled recordings on its own. That has not happened since, and guide downloads have been perfect so far (two weeks).

I'm guardedly happy. This thing needs to work for at least six months before I'll believe it's problem-free.

Has Firmware 1.15 solved most/all of the problems? Not many people have reported back here about their most recent replacement units.

I tried "starting over", and all of the flavors of resets over the past couple of weeks. The problems reappeared within a couple of days. Swapping systems is a bit of a gamble, I agree, but I don't really have a choice at this point. So I will hope for the best!

I think I'm gonna go ahead and pull the trigger on the LG, since the Mits HD-6000 is a ways away and likely too expensive...and the LG service facility is right up the street from me. ;)

This may still be a bit premature, but it sounds like firmware version 1.15 is stable and solves many of the issues previously mentioned in this long and winding thread. So, if you purchase the 3410a, I suggest you make sure you get one with version 1.15 in it or plan to have the upgrade done right after the purchase. If nothing else this may save you future headaches when one of your local broadcasters unintentionally sends out something the 3410a's earlier firmware doesn't understand.

Mine is going in once the shipping labels arrive.

For those of us who want to keep their current unit but want to just have the firmware upgraded, I was told to attach a note to the 3410a. The note should state something such as,

"Please upgrade this LST-3410a to firmware version 1.15 or greater. Please return this same unit (SN #xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) to the customer (do not replace the unit)."

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
I think I'm gonna go ahead and pull the trigger on the LG, since the Mits HD-6000 is a ways away and likely too expensive...and the LG service facility is right up the street from me. ;)

Marc

The HD-6000 is due out late this year. According to the April 19, 2004 press release, you can record one show and watch another show at the same time. LST-3410A cannot do this. To me, it is worth the wait for that feature.

Jim

Jim-
I couldn't find anything about pricing on this Mitsu unit. Do you know what the SRP will be? Yes, looks like it could be a good unit to wait for. Not many specifics yet, but I would think it would handle unencrypted QAM like the 3410? And I wonder if you could crack the case and upgrade the hard drive like folks are doing with the 3410? Will certainly keep an eye on things.

Originally posted by jhawk92
Jim-
I couldn't find anything about pricing on this Mitsu unit. Do you know what the SRP will be? The price will be $1,999.00 and they will be here in October



Thank You for your request if you have any questions or would like to
place
an order please call 1-800-467-7103 EXT 20

Brian Weidrick
www.sheids.comhttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=417338&highlight=hd6000

Originally posted by jhamilto
Marc

The HD-6000 is due out late this year. According to the April 19, 2004 press release, you can record one show and watch another show at the same time. LST-3410A cannot do this. To me, it is worth the wait for that feature.

Jim Please point me to the press release that states this. I was pretty sure the Mits STB only had 1 ATSC tuner. I don't really need that feature anyway, so unless it can record two different HD feeds simultaneously...it is not worth the wait or the high pricetag for me.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Please point me to the press release that states this. I was pretty sure the Mits STB only had 1 ATSC tuner. I don't really need that feature anyway, so unless it can record two different HD feeds simultaneously...it is not worth the wait or the high pricetag for me.

Marc,

Here's one press release:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry/mitsubishi_DVR_pr.htm


or go to

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/

under Newsroom, press releases, check the story titled: "Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America Introduces Industry's Most Advanced HDTV Receiver/Controller"

Jim

JHamilto,

This is great. I returned my LST because of problems. I was considering the TIVO but it is another unit in what appears to be BETA testing. The Mitsu looks interesting but unfortunately there's no RGBHV ouput. Wish they'd considered those of us with CRT projectors. i could not find any mention of dual tuners.

Art, I think you may be off-base with the HD-Tivo comment. Our HD-Tivo has been perfect. I cannot think of another piece of HD equipment that we have had no problems with. From what I can tell, they must have done an exceptional job of debugging the unit prior to release.

Most of the HD watching has been either local channels, ESPN HD or Discovery HD.

If you wait for the Mits HD-6000, you are rolling the dice again. It could be well debugged or it might not. It could appear in September or it might not. The only thing for sure is that Mitsubishi is very proud of their unit, given the price.

Alk,

I said nothing bad about the TIVO. In fact I came to this thread because I was ready to buy one after returning my LGE LST3410A. I saw that folks liked them and called the local store. They were the ones who said there were problems and they were not going to be available for 6 to 8 months. After coming back here and reading through the thread, I saw the same kinds of problems we encountered in the LGE. It is well known that they were testing the unit on the public because of their generous refund policy. It appears there are sufficient problems to warrant concern. As a TIVO stock owner, I am doubly concerned. The lousy tuner issue for folks in the hinterlands like me is a deal breaker. I do not need nor intended to use the Direct TV portion of the device because I have a 12 ft C-Band dish and 4DTV and an HDD200 HD decoder. I get everything from the original feed that DirectTV relinks and compresses for rebroadcast. All I wanted ws a HD PVR. I wanted to watch one channel while recording but apparently that is not a feature.

Originally posted by jhamilto
Marc,

Here's one press release:

http://www.audioholics.com/news/industry/mitsubishi_DVR_pr.htm


or go to

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/

under Newsroom, press releases, check the story titled: "Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America Introduces Industry's Most Advanced HDTV Receiver/Controller"

Jim I meant...point me to a press release that states there are 2 ATSC tuners to allow you to record one HD program while watching another.

Or...simply paste the info for me, because everything I read states just one ATSC tuner.

It has one ATSC tuner and an NTSC tuner. They can not be used at the same time. Perhaps that is what confused Jim.

According to the pdf, the HD-6000's second tuner is only used for POP/PIP. I assume by that it cannot be recorded.

Yeah, according to the pdf, the second tuner is for NTSC only.

Pulled the trigger on the LG...should be here in 1-2 weeks.

I had to get it...now that I have VOOM I am missing out on alot of OTA programming. I'm always torn on what to watch. Couldn't wait on the Mits for the higher $$$ and similar feature set.

Well, I like the idea of the LG serving as a 'video server' and so I modified one of them to plug into a removeable HD unit (sits on top and outside the box). With HD so cheap, and myself wanting to avoid using D-VHS, I rigged up my unit so the external (via long IDE cable and power adapters) can be swapped.

Drive - Western Digital 250GB, on sale at Fry's for $159 + a $30 mail in rebate ($129), removeable unit $25, and extra removeable enclosures $12.

I did learn one thing (before I installed it) - NEVER, EVER turn the unit off while playing from the HD. Stop playback, then shut down. I lost everything I had recorded on the drive.

I've had a relatively problem free first 2 weeks with my LST-3410A. I showed it to my brother-in-law and now he's interested in getting one. Only problem is that he has DISH Network. Anyone know if it's possible to record HD channels from DISH (HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD) with the 3410A? OTA wouldn't be a problem because he uses an antenna for those, he's just wondering about the HD he gets from the satellite.

Originally posted by ned215
I've had a relatively problem free first 2 weeks with my LST-3410A. I showed it to my brother-in-law and now he's interested in getting one. Only problem is that he has DISH Network. Anyone know if it's possible to record HD channels from DISH (HDNet, HDNet Movies, Discovery HD) with the 3410A? OTA wouldn't be a problem because he uses an antenna for those, he's just wondering about the HD he gets from the satellite.

Sorry to say, no.

This PVR can only record HD from Cable (QAM) or OTA (ATSC).

-Robert

DHL came and picked up my LST-3410a for the firmware 1.15 upgrade. Before shipping I archived everything on the harddrive that I really wanted to make sure was saved.

The actual upgrade process has been, so far, relatively painless. Of course it would be much easier if the user (me) had been able to do that upgrade himself over the RS-232 port on the back of the LST-3410a. But, that doesn't appear to be an option, so I'm just glad LG pays the ship to/return costs.

So far I've been pleased with the response once I found someone at LG who knew who to talk with about the LST-3410a. I'll report back when the LST-3410a is returned.

Someone pinch me --- I must be dreaming. My replacement 3410A has continued to work for three weeks now with 1.15. :)

Originally posted by MrHifi
I received my $999.99 refund today. 4 months of waiting. Thanks you Norita and Barbara at the LGE customer service in Alabama. 47 calls.

Congrats Mr HIFI,

I just finally got to speak with Norita this morning, and after a LOOOOOOOOOOOONG wait I may have a check cut next week.
We'll see. I've been waiting since beginning of May.

Norita was extremely helpful, kind and honest. Barbara who went to NJ to ask that the check cutting function be transferred to Alabama was a key player in getting my refund. Mine took from March to June. Hope you do better. If Norita and Barbara do not loose their jobs for trying to make the company reputtable, you will get it when she said.

Is it possible to use the 3410a to timeshift premium content from a cable box with firewire out?

Thanks.

Jeff

No. Only very specific 1394 devices interface with the 3410A. You can only timeshift the premium content in a less than premium format.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Norita was extremely helpful, kind and honest. Barbara who went to NJ to ask that the check cutting function be transferred to Alabama was a key player in getting my refund. Mine took from March to June. Hope you do better. If Norita and Barbara do not loose their jobs for trying to make the company reputtable, you will get it when she said.

I sent my unit back on Monday, July 12th. After swaping once, and then doing the firmware upgrade to .14 the next time, and it still started failing after a few weeks - I just told them to just refund my money. Took a couple of calls to finally get the airborne paperwork back, and then for me to find all the cables, box it up, etc. Maybe after the experience with other's, my refund will be quicker.

The bummer is that I really did like the unit when it was working. Each time mine would work fine for a few weeks, and then get less and less reliable. The last unit got where it would never download any guide information or even update the clock - and it wouldn't let me set it. Without a clock, I couldn't even manually record anything.

I guess I'll start doing the research for a HD recorder all over again. Maybe lease the SA box from the cable co for a few months until other products come onto the market - hopefully with the bugs worked out.

Whom should I contact at LG to arrange for a firmware upgrade where they pay the ship to/from charges?

How long will I be without the 3410 if I send it to LG only for Firmware Upgrade from 1.12 to 1.15?

What kind of purchase date parameters/proof of purchase did they require?

I have 1.12 which works, so, I am a litle reluctant to upgrade.

What are the specific benefits 1.12 vs. 1.15?

Thanks in advance.

Is there a service menu or something that will tell me the firmware version ? The reason I ask is that I have a 3510 and I am hoping it is the same.

Under the menu system, go to "troubleshooting". You should see an option to look at version numbers.

Originally posted by mkerdman
Now that I too have already successfully upgraded the LG 3410 DVR with a single Maxtor 300GB IDE drive, I am wondering if the Areca ARC 5010 Internal IDE to IDE RAID Subsystem could present itself the 3410 as a single logical IDE drive.

http://www.areca.us/IDERAID.htm

I am wondering if the ARC 5010 needs a PC Host to work as it seems to be designed as a three or four 5.25" bay filler.

So, I am a little confused about whether the Areca ARC 5010 Internal RAID Subsystem can act as a 1TB (+/-) IDE drive for the 3410.

Is the ARC 5010 RAID HW and HDD's all in the multi-bay enclosure which provides a single logical drive IDE connection and only requires +12v?

Murray, just wondering if you were able to get an answer to your inquiry about the ARC subsystem, I'm also interested in the RAID array?

An update on my 3410's upgrade to version 1.15. The 3410a was returned earlier this week. The total "down time" was just under one week from sent out to received back. Excellent time.

The 3410a was upgraded to version 1.15. Nothing was erased from the hard drive. In addition, LG replaced an outside panel I had accidentally scratched. The replacement was unexpected and a very nice surprise. All work was done under warranty.

Since I only got the 3410a hooked back up last night, I can't say too much about performance. So far, everything I have tried has worked perfectly. The time auto-updated after about an hour and the guide stated filling-in overnight. All my upcoming guide/timer events were still in memory. On the limited amount of playback I had time for, there were no freezes or glitches of any kind in 1080i mode through the component video output.

Going out on a limb a bit, the user interface seems slightly faster. This also could just be my perception since I've been exclusively using the HD-Tivo for a week, with its sloooow interface, but the 3410a seemed faster than what I remember as its pre-upgrade speed. I did not notice any new features in the menus, but really didn't have time to look much.

Bottom line - I'm very pleased with LG's upgrade process for the 3410a. The upgrade has gone a long way towards becoming a satisfied LG customer. Now we'll see how version 1.15 performs over time...

Originally posted by wookatok
Murray, just wondering if you were able to get an answer to your inquiry about the ARC subsystem, I'm also interested in the RAID array?

The 3410 checks the hard drive on power up, and, if there is any delay it formats an unidentified IDE connected drive.

Therefore, I think that the ARC subsystem is a poor choice because it has a far higher power requirement for it's 5-hard drives and system board than the 3410's PSU can reasonably deliver to it.

I have ordered the parts to have a single IDE drive at a time in an external enclosure with a mobile dock slide in/out tray system for easy/quick shuttling of hard drives powered by the 3410.

EDIT: The ARC subsystem could be seperately powered and left on 24/7, but, it costs $550, and, the possible loss of data on a RAID 5 device is not a cheap or inviting prospect.

Originally posted by mkerdman
The 3410 checks the hard drive on power up, and, if there is any delay it formats an unidentified IDE connected drive.

Therefore, I think that the ARC subsystem is a poor choice because it has a far higher power requirement for it's 5-hard drives and system board than the 3410's PSU can reasonably deliver to it.

I have ordered the parts to have a single IDE drive at a time in an external enclosure with a mobile dock slide in/out tray system for easy/quick shuttling of hard drives powered by the 3410.

Thanks for the update. Keep us posted on your new setup as you progress. I would like to try doing the same. Please let me know if you can share your project details.

Good Luck

In an effort to use the 3410 to watch The Grid 2-hour TNT-HD premiere and skip the commercials, I recorded the show on DVHS from my Dish 6000-169Time STB, copies it to the 3410 hard drive only to find unwatchable amounts of video glitching.

HBOHD, SHOHD and other channels recordings do not glitch when similarly transferred from DVHS and played on the 3410 hard drive.

However, the 3410 played The Grid 2-hour TNT-HD premiere directly from the JVC 30K DVHS over 1394 DVI output glitch-free.

Anybody have any similar observations?

Originally posted by mkerdman

I have ordered the parts to have a single IDE drive at a time in an external enclosure with a mobile dock slide in/out tray system for easy/quick shuttling of hard drives powered by the 3410.

I had a set up like that, but every other day or so, when I'd power up the system, it'd show "DVR not formatted - format?" This happened about 4 times, and after I'd spent each time dumping about 5 movies to the HD.

Ultimately I disconnected the system. I had to go with a longer cable since hte one inside the LG is to short. It is a cable select IDE cable (couldn't find a nice long one that didn't have this feature). Set the HD to cable select instead of Master, and everything for the past week has been working (fingers crossed).

I don't know if it's the cable, the way the HD was set up (in the mobile dock, each HD was set as MASTER), irregularities in the mobile dock interface, etc.

Originally posted by bwiklem
I had a set up like that, but every other day or so, when I'd power up the system, it'd show "DVR not formatted - format?" This happened about 4 times, and after I'd spent each time dumping about 5 movies to the HD.

Ultimately I disconnected the system. I had to go with a longer cable since hte one inside the LG is to short. It is a cable select IDE cable (couldn't find a nice long one that didn't have this feature). Set the HD to cable select instead of Master, and everything for the past week has been working (fingers crossed).

I don't know if it's the cable, the way the HD was set up (in the mobile dock, each HD was set as MASTER), irregularities in the mobile dock interface, etc.

bwiklem

So, your old configuration was with the hard drive and cable operating as a master drive to the 3410, and, your new setup is using cable select settings on the drive and cable- is that correct?

Are you saying you think your "DVR not formatted - format?" failures were due to the original 3410 short cable with Master settings, and, you hope the cable select mode will help?

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1076628571351&skuId=6287047&type=product

Got my unit from HDTV Time yesterday...had 1.15 on it and I'm very happy so far. Would have ordered from Best Buy had I seen this sale earlier.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1076628571351&skuId=6287047&type=product

Got my unit from HDTV Time yesterday...had 1.15 on it and I'm very happy so far. Would have ordered from Best Buy had I seen this sale earlier.

Marc

Here's a better link to the less than $760 sale price with free shipping:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1076628571351&skuId=6287047&type=product

I have firmware 1.15 in my LG 3410. It is working fine. I would like to uprade to a 300 GB hard drive, but i don't want to mess up my unit.

Has anyone with firmware 1.15 upgraded to the Maxtor 300GB hard drive.
Have you had any problems with the 3410 after upgrading?

How long has it been working properly after the HD upgrade?

Jack H

Originally posted by mkerdman
So, your old configuration was with the hard drive and cable operating as a master drive to the 3410, and, your new setup is using cable select settings on the drive and cable- is that correct?

Are you saying you think your "DVR not formatted - format?" failures were due to the original 3410 short cable with Master settings, and, you hope the cable select mode will help?

A bit more complicated than that (or maybe not?)

When I originally upgraded the drive to a 250GB Maxtor, the Maxtor had the same settings as the drive I pulled out (master switch was set).

When I got the mobile dock, I set it up the same way, but had to go with a longer cable (obviously). Everything worked for a day or two (as I was dumping movies from D-VHS to the HD), but usually by the second day, it'd show that my HD was not formatted, and thus unreadable. Even if I took the HD out of the mobile dock and reinserted it back into the LG (same way as the original set up) it still showed the drive as not being formatted.

My friend thought it might be due to the cable (new cable) supporting cable select. Thus, I changed the drive to "cable select" for the hell of it (what did I have to lose...) and it's been a week and it's still working fine. This is with the drive plugged into the cable and not through the mobile dock. Given the time it takes, I didn't want to risk having to restart my copying since it takes too much time, and is wear and tear on my D-VHS tape/deck.

So the mobile dock is out of the loop for the time being. I don't know if it's some compatibility issue or what, but I just didn't feel like risking it again. Thus, the mobile dock has been yanked for now.

I'd be open to see if you have better luck.

As a side note, anyone plug in the HD to their PC to see if the PC will read what the LG has recorded? Will Linux read the drive?

Regarding your second question, the short cable that comes with the LG isn't a problem. Never had a problem at all. I swapped the cable with a longer cable, and thus I wondered if the problems I was having were due to the cable or due to an incompatibility or other issue with the mobile dock.

I thought I might give it another try at that price. Unfortunately it is only available in 1 store almost 80 miles away and they will not ship. Web site will not sell. And I was ready to begin again too.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a better link to the less than $760 sale price with free shipping:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...47&type=product

__________________

Originally posted by MrHifi
I thought I might give it another try at that price. Unfortunately it is only available in 1 store almost 80 miles away and they will not ship. Web site will not sell. And I was ready to begin again too.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here's a better link to the less than $760 sale price with free shipping:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage...47&type=product

__________________


FWIW, my local BB said that it was not in stock, but, they would ship it to me free at the sale price if I go in to the store and pay for it first BEFORE CLOSING ON SATURDAY NIGHT.

If they'd ship me one I'd buy it.

Originally posted by MrHifi
If they'd ship me one I'd buy it.
Art

I thought your main gripe was with the 3410's RGB output not the EPG data stability which is all the 1.15 seems to have addressed.

Where are people finding this unit in stock/shipping for a reasonable price (i.e. less than MSRP/899) these days anyway? BestBuy drones have blown me off 3 times in the last month on special ordering one.

Originally posted by mrmike
Where are people finding this unit in stock/shipping for a reasonable price (i.e. less than MSRP/899) these days anyway? BestBuy drones have blown me off 3 times in the last month on special ordering one.

mrmike

Skip the sales people and go directly to Customer Service Counter and, if necessary, ask/insist on speaking to the mananger to request/demand that he/she order your unit.

BB Corporate would not be happy to hear that anyone blew you off and didn't take your $7XX.00.

Murray,

I tried through the corporate telephone number. No cigar. I found three units 80 miles from me in Sterling, Va. Iasked to have it shipped. The salesman asked his supervisor who said they had no mechanism for mailing out of the syore. I even tried to get it transferred like thhe head office said they would. It appears each operation is a fiefdom onto itself. Guess I'll do without. After all the problems I had, you would think I would know better. It's just that when it worked it was amazing except for the brightness issue through the VGA port. Of course, one unit did burn up and the second one had the brightness variation. There just is no other device to capture OTA HD with a VGA RGBHV output.

You could hook a transcoder up to the component outputs. Here is one that has been recommended elsewhere.

http://www.hdconnection.com/Products.htm

Originally posted by MrHifi
If they'd ship me one I'd buy it. I got mine shipped for less than best buy's price. About a week from order to delivery.

http://store.hdtvtime.com/lst-3410a.html

Is this refurbished unit? I sent them an email asking if it is in stock. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate your help.

That transcoder would certainly work. Thanks!!!!!!!

Originally posted by MrHifi
Is this refurbished unit? I sent them an email asking if it is in stock. Thanks a lot. I really appreciate your help. It is not in stock, it is a special order item, took about a week to ship from a Simple Logistics Warehouse in Bothell, WA. It is new as far as I can tell and came with 1.15 firmware.

Those of you complaining about LG should know your experiences are exemplary compared to what I've suffered with Samsung lately.

Though their customer care people do seem to really care, their service department is incompetent and borders on downright malicious:[list=1]
Samsung releases new software, required because the unit will continuously reboot when broadcasters enable the Broadcast Flag. Not updating is not an option. Samsung helpfully sends out an updater program, and cable.
Attempts to update my SIR-T165 fail with a "Version Compare Error" that no one can explain.
I'm told I must send my box in to Samsung to get it updated (from version 132 to 134.)
I send my SIR-T165 in. About 10 days later I get it back with the SAME software, V132. I call service and they said the first customer care rep didn't put down that I needed a software update in my call record, so they plugged it in, saw it was working, and sent it back (!)
I call customer care, livid. They send me a UPS 2nd Day Air call tag to send my unit back a second time.
I get my box back yesterday. The back panel is scratched to heck, as is the front panel. The back panel jacks are missing ALL the standoffs for any cable that screws in (the standoffs for the RGB, DVI and RS232C jacks are ALL missing.) The coax jacks are not screwed on securely. To make it even better, I connect it and find out they've apparently replaced the motherboard and I now have (wait for it) software revision 129.
[/list=1] So that means out of around seven weeks I've owned it, Samsung has had it for five, and they not only haven't updated the software, they've cosmetically damaged the unit, badly, and now I have a software revision older than what I had when I first pulled it out of the box.

Oh, and attempting to update the new motherboard via PC... generates a Version Compare Error.

Comparatively those of you fighting with flaky LGs and some of you who have actually been promised and have received refunds from LG are way ahead of the game; I've got a unit that has been actively damaged by Samsung repair, and the only thing I could do would be to send it into repair again, where I'm sure it would get damaged yet again, and so on... :mad:

At present I'm trying to see if my local Best Buy will order me a 3410a...

Has anyone else bought from this website? They have the 3410 listed for less than $700 which seems like a good price.

John

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
I got mine shipped for less than best buy's price. About a week from order to delivery.

http://store.hdtvtime.com/lst-3410a.html

Based on Marc Alexander's posting, I orderd one today. $700.00 delivered they claim. Hope it works out.

Short up date, It is going on 7 weeks now and no problems with the box.
I record 1 show per day 1/2 hour long, plays just fine. Also timeshift programs at night. I was on vacation for the past 3 weeks and it recorded 1 show a day just fine. I did leave the UPS on and 2 fans running over the unit.


mstanl

Did you check with them to make sure it comes with FW version 1.15 as that seems like the only version that actually works? I had a 3410 a few months back but had to return it due to all the problems, but if 1.15 actually works and the price is now about $300 less I probably going to try it out again.

John

Originally posted by MrHifi
Based on Marc Alexander's posting, I orderd one today. $700.00 delivered they claim. Hope it works out.

I'm considering putting the RatShack muffin fan in it. Murray, did you install those? What are the parts list numbers?

kucharsk, sad but interesting story. Sorry you are having to go through that.

Perhaps you should start a new thread on the HDTV Recording forum about your troubles and provide a pointer to the long thread in the HDTV equipment section? Tracing that through was the first I had heard that all of the Samsungs have serious broadcast flag issues. Without a pointer in this forum, there may be some other T165 owners who don't know that their T165 is about to go belly-up.

I am so glad I no longer have the T165 after reading all this. At least it appears LG fixes their issues (eventually).

Originally posted by alk3997
...I am so glad I no longer have the T165 after reading all this. At least it appears LG fixes their issues (eventually).

Me too. I didn't know I had a ticking time bomb.

Originally posted by jcg
Did you check with them to make sure it comes with FW version 1.15 as that seems like the only version that actually works? I had a 3410 a few months back but had to return it due to all the problems, but if 1.15 actually works and the price is now about $300 less I probably going to try it out again.

John Like I posted earlier: They don't stock the unit locally, it is a special order (so there is no way for them to check the FW for you). My unit came with 1.15.

...One addition. It did not arrived double boxed so make sure you use FedEx Air. UPS ground is too rough on shipments. FedEx 2nd-day was actually the same price as Ground for me.

Just a quick note... use caution if you have your local Best Buy order you a 3410.

Their internal computers all show the box at their "normal price" but they will instantly match the printed page from their own web site giving the sale price. What's even more interesting is their computers allow them to access bestbuy.com, but it's not the same site you see from outside! When the person taking my order went to the site from inside the store, the sale price didn't show; as soon as I got home I checked and the sale price was still in effect.

Finally, any sales rep can order you the box; you don't need to have a customer service rep or manager do it; if the person you are talking to won't, it's because they don't know how. The entry form even allows you to have it shipped to your store or directly to your home.

Granted, it's significantly more expensive at Best Buy than from HDTVTime, (especially when you consider not only the price differential but sales tax), but obviously returns and such are easier (well, at least within the first 14 days) as well...

Originally posted by kucharsk
Just a quick note... use caution if you have your local Best Buy order you a 3410.

Their internal computers all show the box at their "normal price" but they will instantly match the printed page from their own web site giving the sale price. What's even more interesting is their computers allow them to access bestbuy.com, but it's not the same site you see from outside! When the person taking my order went to the site from inside the store, the sale price didn't show; as soon as I got home I checked and the sale price was still in effect.

Granted, it's significantly more at Best Buy than from HDTVTime, (especially when you consider not only the price differential but sales tax), but obviously returns and such are easier as well...

If you're saying you didn't get the sale price shown on the web, you certainly can get a refund of the difference form the store.

There is an instant rebate at the in-store check out for $40 +/- you should have received off the $799 price.

I agree it's worth a little more to buy from BB, especially locally at B&M, than a low profile Internet dealer whose orders are drop shipped from his distributer.

Still, for others, $700 is a good price.

I checked at one of my local BB's tonight (there are several within 25 miles) and they had three boxed units and two on display. I checked the two display units and both had FW version 1.12. The three boxed units were obviously resealed. The boxes were somewhat beat-up. Maybe these units are ones some of us have returned to LG??? Could they have been checked, cleared and repacked?? I did not want to take that chance and left without purchasing one of these units.

I have a 3410 that I purchased in February (FW 1.12). It freezes up once or twice a week--must be unplugged for a few minutes and then plugged back in to the AC. Then it will work OK again for a few days.

I was hoping to purchase one with FW 1.15, get the one I have updated, and then sell one of them. I really hate to be without the unit as I use it quite a bit--it is my OTA HD tuner.

Originally posted by mkerdman
If you're saying you didn't get the sale price shown on the web, you certainly can get a refund of the difference form the store.

There is an instant rebate at the in-store check out for $40 +/- you should have received off the $799 price. What I'm saying is that unless you take the web page with you, you won't get the less than $799 price - all Best Buy's computers and the bestbuy.com website they have access to from inside the store all show the price as $799.

There was also certainly no instant rebate offered when I checked out... my original receipt shows a purchase price of $799, which got adjusted properly when I brought in a printout of the sale price from the web site.

The unit is being shipped direct to my home, free of charge. Their warehouse showed six in stock this morning but only four by the time I ordered mine this afternoon; projected delivery date is July 29.

Since I still have my Samsung SIR-T165, if it doesn't come with FW 1.15 I will immediately call LG the minute I take it out of the box, I won't even bother to hook it up first.

Finally, to address another poster, Best Buy does not sell refurbished or manufacturer returned goods though they do sell returns as "open box" items.

In theory if a box is open on the Best Buy floor and it's not marked down as an open box unit, someone, typically a customer, opened the box in-store...

Originally posted by MrHifi
I'm considering putting the RatShack muffin fan in it. Murray, did you install those? What are the parts list numbers?

Here is what I installed in mine. I mounted the fan with Silicone cement so it can be removed with no sign of it ever being their. It is mounted as an exhaust fan over the vent in the rear.

http://www.coolerguys.com/yhst-24067115789173/840556017813.html

http://store.coolerguys.com/840556016250.html

http://store.coolerguys.com/840556000020.html