No. Firewire works only with DVHS decks and MicroMV camcorders.

Thank you.

Alan -
You could, I believe, feed the JVC DVHS deck via the TW Digital Cable box and then feed the 3410A from the DVHS deck. The only reason why this might not work is that the manual says you cannot daisy chain firewire devices - but I don't know if this is considering daisy chaining.

Tim

Originally posted by Hyrax
Alan -
You could, I believe, feed the JVC DVHS deck via the TW Digital Cable box and then feed the 3410A from the DVHS deck. The only reason why this might not work is that the manual says you cannot daisy chain firewire devices - but I don't know if this is considering daisy chaining.

Tim

It will not work. I tried every possible connection combination. If you have anything else plugged into firewire besides DVHS, LG just says that there are too many firewire devices and nothing works.

Ah - I guess that would be what they mean by daisy chaining, then. Too bad they had to make it so hard.

You can daisy chain firewall devices. You however, cannot daisy chain the LG (it no like;)).

CKNA - I have successfully gone from my Comcast cable box to my PC, then my PC to the 3410a in real time using the vivid logic firebus suite., plugging both machines into my PC.

the PC looks like a DVHS to both, and they are on two different firewire cards.

This was a setup that also works with a 169time box.

Originally posted by orbitzboy
CKNA - I have successfully gone from my Comcast cable box to my PC, then my PC to the 3410a in real time using the vivid logic firebus suite., plugging both machines into my PC.

the PC looks like a DVHS to both, and they are on two different firewire cards.

This was a setup that also works with a 169time box.

orbitzboy


Could you more fully describe your configuration, procedures and functions that include: 169Time HDVR > 169Time AVX1 > PC > LG 3410, and whether you can view the 169Time AVX1 content stream live or only record it to the LG 3410 hard disk.

Originally posted by micmel2
Hi, all. Can anyone with the LST-3410a please answer the following questions for me. Thanks in advance.

1. When the unit is off, is the HD and/or fan running?
2. How warm does the unit get when running?
3. How easy is it to archive a recording to D-VHS?

Again, thanks in advance for your reply.


Regards.

micmel2,

Archiving to my JVC 30k is very easy and reliable.

Jim

Originally posted by merton
micmel2,

Archiving to my JVC 30k is very easy and reliable.

Jim

Are you archiving OTA or cable HD?

As noted earlier, I can send HD recordings from the HDD to D-VHS, but if the original source was cable, playback has glitches every few seconds. Playback is perfect if the original source was OTA. (Both sources play back perfectly from the HDD.)

CKNA posted he had a similar problem, but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this behavior.

I'm having consistent problems with missed recordings.

Over 10 times now the 3410A 1.15 has failed to record anything when the Guide was set to record shows regularly. Anyone else seeing this?

HiFi..no problems here yet for me (but I have only had it two weeks).

Dave

Art -
I once had the problem where it recorded the program every Sunday for 4 Sundays, but then it decided not to record it on the 5th Sunday. That was the only time I've had a problem - I'd probably recorded 30 shows successfully using that method - but ever since, I've stopped using the record regularly.

Tim

Tim

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
I had a problem last night. Only 15 mins of a scheduled 30 min recording was stored. This was the first night of a record daily, manual recording (we'll see what happens tonight). This is the third time this has happened to me (but the other two recording were filled with signal drop-outs...this one wasn't).

FW 1.15 This record daily timer record only 15 mins 3 consecutive nights. I only use record once now.

The only missed recordings I have had I attribute to signal dropouts. The LG will not record if the signal is not good (I've seen it happen in real time). It also will stop recordings if the signal goes away completely.

It's strange, but the LG tuner in my 3410A is the only one of my 3 HD OTA tuners that has a consistent multipath problem with WPWR-DT51 (Ch. 50-1 in Chicagoland). It receives the identical antenna signal that is supplied to my (1st Gen. built-in) DTC-100 and my Sony SAT-HD300. The Sony, like the 3410A, utilizes an early-2004 LG tuner, but of course it tunes DirecTV and does not have QAM capability. You would think the ATSC OTA 4th-Gen. tuner would be pretty much the same.

Originally posted by Markz2k
I just picked up a new 3410 yesterday at Best Buy for $599. They had several boxes on the shelf, only one of which looked reasonably new and un-opened. Got it home and connected, and it's got the 1.15 firmware. I have it connected via DVI to a Toshiba 50HDX82. Configured it to use DVI, and connected CATV & Antenna cables and did the setup. EZ-Scan only found 2 HD channels on cable. (I have limited basic analog service, and only get the basic analog channels.) It did find a bunch of audio-only channels.

After 5-10 minutes of playing with it, the screen went black for a split second then came back. A few seconds later, did it again. A few more seconds, blanked again, this time even longer, and it flashed the text DVI Blocked. Then it came back for a few seconds. It continued to do this, showing a normal picture, then blacking out for up to 3-4 seconds. The audio would also cut out during these blanks.


I just purchased one of the $599 BB units too, however, I'm having a similar, but different and quite serious, problem. My unit also came with 1.15 firmware. I'm using the component outputs to feed into my TV via my AV receiver that does component switching.

Here's the problem - the unit constantly reboots itself. When you first turn the unit on, you get the "Hello" message on the front of the 3410. Well, that's what happens when it reboots - the TV screen goes dark and loses its signal from the 3410, the "Hello" messages pops back up on the 3410, and eventually it starts working again. This cycle can repeat over and over and over until the unit finally locks in. It may then work again for quite a long time (or it may not) before it begins its reboot cycle again. I have noticed an error message pop up right before the TV screen goes dark, something to the affect that an "A/V1, A/V2, Invalid Record Channel Selected"! Heck, when it does this reboot cycle thing I'm not even recording. This is not a signal dropout but an actual reboot of the 3410!

Has anyone else seen this problem? A search on "reboot" only found messages from forum members who had to force a reboot of their 3410 to get it to work.

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
This record daily timer record only 15 mins 3 consecutive nights. I only use record once now.

The only missed recordings I have had I attribute to signal dropouts. The LG will not record if the signal is not good (I've seen it happen in real time). It also will stop recordings if the signal goes away completely.

I had that happen with new unit 9 months ago, it has firmare 1.10 or something I think.

I got 15 minutes of different channels scheduled to record. I know it sucks but I switched to manual time and channel settings and since then not a single failure.

It has been said this bug can occur based on the channel psp and guide data based on the source and your geography among other things.

John -
Your rebooting problem sounds serious. I've not heard of anyone else having this problem.

Tim

John,

Try blowing a fan on it. Make sure the fan is running as fast as possible and aim it towards the top vents. The problem you describe is not unlike what I saw in both of my early 3410's. I would bet that some of those are getting recycled into the marketplace. They certainly are not throwing them away.

John -
Art made a good point. It may be overheating. Try the fan, definitely. However, since it seems to stabilize after a number of reboots, it is also possible that the unit actually needs to heatup before it works. Based on my days of building Heathkits, it seems there could be a cold solder or similar problem. A cold solder (which means something isn't makng contact until the unit heats up) is a manufacturing error and often result in odd behavior (like 9 times out of 10 the unit behaves perfectly).

Tim

Originally posted by JRTrautschold
I just purchased one of the $599 BB units too, however, I'm having a similar, but different and quite serious, problem. My unit also came with 1.15 firmware. I'm using the component outputs to feed into my TV via my AV receiver that does component switching.

Here's the problem - the unit constantly reboots itself. When you first turn the unit on, you get the "Hello" message on the front of the 3410. Well, that's what happens when it reboots - the TV screen goes dark and loses its signal from the 3410, the "Hello" messages pops back up on the 3410, and eventually it starts working again. This cycle can repeat over and over and over until the unit finally locks in. It may then work again for quite a long time (or it may not) before it begins its reboot cycle again. I have noticed an error message pop up right before the TV screen goes dark, something to the affect that an "A/V1, A/V2, Invalid Record Channel Selected"! Heck, when it does this reboot cycle thing I'm not even recording. This is not a signal dropout but an actual reboot of the 3410!

Has anyone else seen this problem? A search on "reboot" only found messages from forum members who had to force a reboot of their 3410 to get it to work.

I can think of four reasons for the symptoms you are reporting. None of them are good. This is not normal 3410a behavior with 1.15 firmware.

1) Obviously a hardware failure / corrupted firmware load is the leading cause. I can't imagine that normal heating has anything to do with this, unless it is a cold solder issue. Since this happens at power-up (assuming you had the 3410a off for a while) rather than after a while of watching/playing, a fan is not likely to solve this issue (but may help the overall 3410a lifetime).

2) The firmware can't handle something on the hard drive. If you can afford to loose the programming on the hard drive, suggest you use the troubleshooting menu options to reformat the hard drive. Archive to DVHS first those items you don't want to loose (assuming you can get to that point with the 3410a in the condition it is in).

3) The firmware can't handle something in the PSIP data or Guide data. Suggest you try booting from a different channel than you normally have the 3410a set on. If that clears up the problem them maybe there is a PSIP stream issue (hope it isn't your station!). I don't know what you can do for bad Guide data other than reinitialize the 3410a and wait a week.

4) Somehow AV1/AV2 are programmed for timer recording. Unfortunately (and I really would have liked this to work) AV1/AV2 inputs cannot be used for timer recording. Check your timer schedule with two clicks of the VCR+ button and verify that all of the programming is valid.

My bet is that your firmware is not executing properly. If all else fails, it is time to call LG or return to place of purchase. Again, what you wrote is not normal 3410a behavior.

Originally posted by MrHifi
I'm having consistent problems with missed recordings.

Over 10 times now the 3410A 1.15 has failed to record anything when the Guide was set to record shows regularly. Anyone else seeing this?

Art, one thing I found recently was that the Guide people changed the name/program number of one of my weekly recording shows. They changed Sunday's edition of "ABC World News Tonight" to "ABC World News Sunday".

This change in the name caused the program to stop recording but only on Sunday. This was because I hadn't programmed the LG to record "ABC World News Sunday" but had a daily "ABC World News Tonight" programmed. Yes, I'm a news junkie.

Unfortunately it isn't a TIVO in function so you have to make sure what you programmed to record a month ago is still the name of the program today.

For those with short recording problems, have you verified that the whole recording is not there. I have noticed that on programs from abc and fox affiliates the time shows up at less usually 35 min for an hr program, but the whole program exists in the recording. I believe this has to do with the fact that they are 720p which takes up less hard drive space than tha 1080i. So they display looks short but is the full recording

Originally posted by j.oliver
For those with short recording problems, have you verified that the whole recording is not there. Uhhh....yes:cool:

But you are correct that the recording times of programs are often innacurate

Originally posted by alk3997
I can think of four reasons for the symptoms you are reporting. None of them are good. This is not normal 3410a behavior with 1.15 firmware.

1) Obviously a hardware failure / corrupted firmware load is the leading cause. I can't imagine that normal heating has anything to do with this, unless it is a cold solder issue. Since this happens at power-up (assuming you had the 3410a off for a while) rather than after a while of watching/playing, a fan is not likely to solve this issue (but may help the overall 3410a lifetime).

2) The firmware can't handle something on the hard drive. If you can afford to loose the programming on the hard drive, suggest you use the troubleshooting menu options to reformat the hard drive. Archive to DVHS first those items you don't want to loose (assuming you can get to that point with the 3410a in the condition it is in).

3) The firmware can't handle something in the PSIP data or Guide data. Suggest you try booting from a different channel than you normally have the 3410a set on. If that clears up the problem them maybe there is a PSIP stream issue (hope it isn't your station!). I don't know what you can do for bad Guide data other than reinitialize the 3410a and wait a week.

4) Somehow AV1/AV2 are programmed for timer recording. Unfortunately (and I really would have liked this to work) AV1/AV2 inputs cannot be used for timer recording. Check your timer schedule with two clicks of the VCR+ button and verify that all of the programming is valid.

My bet is that your firmware is not executing properly. If all else fails, it is time to call LG or return to place of purchase. Again, what you wrote is not normal 3410a behavior.

Well, I'm more convinced than ever that my box is totally hosed right out of the gate. Based on your responses:

1) It's definitely not an overheating problem - if anything it's an under-heating problem since it does tend to work slightly better after it's warmed up for 10 or 15 minutes. I'm thinking this is a hardware failure of some sort - it could also be related to a bad firmware load.

2) I haven't recorded anything on the hard drive. It's never worked long enough to do that. Nonetheless, I did try reformatting it and that didn't make any difference.

3) I've never seen any guide data, period. I have tried booting the unit up from different channels but that hasn't helped. Interestingly, when I do a channel scan, all it finds are OTA digital channels - it never finds analog channels! I just noticed that tonight while fighting, er, troubleshooting it. In the channel list page, I can not select the tab marked "TV"!

4) Two clicks of the VCR+ button do nothing. I see the front panel of the 3410 indicate it received the clicks, but nothing ever pops up on the screen. Then again, when I press the TV Guide button nothing happens either other than the screen going black for a few seconds before it returns to the selected program (or it reboots).

I've only had the unit for a week and a half, and it acted this way right out of the box. In fact, it rebooted during the "Auto Demo" a number of times. Instead of screwing around with LG, I think I'm just going to return it to BB. If they have another one (with 1.15 firmware) in stock, I'll try it, but I'm just not going to waste a lot of time on this box, what with all of the problems everyone else seems to be having with it. This unit sure puts a black mark on LG Electronics, in my book. Sigh...

The new Mitsubishi DVR that should be released soon looks very promising, but at $2000 per? Ouch.

John -
I'm not sure you actually need to hold out for a unit with 1.15. I've got one of the original builds and I've never updated the firmware. I've got no real complaints. I've never had a clear description of what the 1.15 firmware provides, so I figure if my unit isn't broken I do not want to mess with it.

Tim

Originally posted by Hyrax
John -
I'm not sure you actually need to hold out for a unit with 1.15. I've got one of the original builds and I've never updated the firmware. I've got no real complaints. I've never had a clear description of what the 1.15 firmware provides, so I figure if my unit isn't broken I do not want to mess with it.

Tim

Well, the other units that my local BB's had (have?) were firmware revs 1.12. One of my buddies at work picked up one of those and it seems to be working okay - well, at least better than mine. If I take it back to BB tomorrow I'll see what they have in stock, if anything.

I also had a thought after posting my last message - perhaps the problem is with the analog tuner. I believe the TV Guide data is sent via analog PBS stations (or other commercial stations). The box probably integrates that info with PSIP data from the DTV stations. I've never seen the TV Guide screen - ever! If I try to select it the screen just goes blank for a few seconds (or the box reboots) before returning to the selected DTV station. If the analog tuner is bad (or a bad connection of some sort - perhaps I'll pop the top on the box to see if anything looks suspect) that could explain that. I'd also mentioned that it won't let me select any analog channels - in fact I can't even select the "TV" tab in the channel list screen. That too points to something wrong with the analog tuner or other hardware related to analog reception.

What fun, eh?

I hate to solicit traffic...but I'm desperate. I am having a problem on the firewire link between the 3410 and 30k. They can't seem to agree that DiscoveryHD is HD. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=429373

Originally posted by JRTrautschold
Well, the other units that my local BB's had (have?) were firmware revs 1.12. One of my buddies at work picked up one of those and it seems to be working okay - well, at least better than mine. If I take it back to BB tomorrow I'll see what they have in stock, if anything.

I also had a thought after posting my last message - perhaps the problem is with the analog tuner. I believe the TV Guide data is sent via analog PBS stations (or other commercial stations). The box probably integrates that info with PSIP data from the DTV stations. I've never seen the TV Guide screen - ever! If I try to select it the screen just goes blank for a few seconds (or the box reboots) before returning to the selected DTV station. If the analog tuner is bad (or a bad connection of some sort - perhaps I'll pop the top on the box to see if anything looks suspect) that could explain that. I'd also mentioned that it won't let me select any analog channels - in fact I can't even select the "TV" tab in the channel list screen. That too points to something wrong with the analog tuner or other hardware related to analog reception.

What fun, eh?

John, the analog tuner was my first thought, as well, when I was reading your update. Sounds like it is time for a new unit. As you said if the analog station signal is not received then you would get no Guide data. It sounds as if the box can't even get to that point in its programming anyway.

Only thing else you might try is to put the demo button back into the unit and see if a reboot does anything good.

Like most HD recording solutions, patience is a virtue. Less patience was required for the LG than the Samsung T165.

The combination of my DTC100 and 3410 is providing some wonderful HD. My hard drive has almost maxed out the last two days and I'm only recording OTA. For a real treat, let your unit record PBS HD during the night. The Alaska and Whale stories are incredibly beautiful.

Art -
Thanks for the heads up. I've seen the Whales HD broadcast, but not the Alaska show. I've also enjoyed episodes of Smart Travels on PBS in HD. A while back I saw a very good PBS show about John Singer Sargent - his paintings looked better in the show than when I saw them in a museum.

Football and Nature/Travel seem to me to be the killer apps for HDTV, but
timeshifting is what makes it possible. I cannot spend 3-4 hours watching a football game.

If I want to add a second STB, do I just split the cable signal?

That will probably work well. In the Wash. D.C metro area we have over 20 digital and HD feeds. I use a roof mounted antenna that has been up there for 20 years. i do have a good rotor. It amazes me that in the nation's capital one has to rotate the antenna towards Baltimore Maryland, 40 miles away, in order to receive the ABC 5.1 Dolby Digital broadcasts. Our own affiliate can not seem to figure out how to broadcast in 5.1. Pisses me off because i have to reprogram every channel to record the Baltimore affiliates on the other channels when i rotate the antenna 90 degrees towards Baltimore.

Originally posted by alk3997
John, the analog tuner was my first thought, as well, when I was reading your update. Sounds like it is time for a new unit. As you said if the analog station signal is not received then you would get no Guide data. It sounds as if the box can't even get to that point in its programming anyway.

Only thing else you might try is to put the demo button back into the unit and see if a reboot does anything good.

Like most HD recording solutions, patience is a virtue. Less patience was required for the LG than the Samsung T165.

Well, it looks like I do not need a new unit! It's fixed! Here's the story...

After posting last night, I decided to pop the top on the box to see if I could find anything obviously wrong - like a bad connection or a popped IC. Well, the chips are all soldered to the mother board and there are very few connections. I did notice a 5-pole dip switch on the mother board and one or two of the switches didn't look like there were firmly seated in the "on" or "off" position. I exercised each switch, putting each one back in the position it looked like it needed to be in and after I powered it back up...

IT WORKED - NO REBOOTS - NO CRASHES - IT ACTUALLY WORKED!

I re-did a full channel scan and this time it included the analog channels! This was beginning to look promising so I shut it off and let it sit all night to see what kind of TV Guide stuff it would get. Well, this morning the guide was full! It apparently downloaded everything perfectly, so I put it to the test. I programmed a couple of TV Guide recordings (just picked stuff at random) and programmed some manual recordings. I shut the unit off to see what would happen. Well, everything recorded perfectly, both HD and non-HD stuff.

Whew!

So, apparently one of those five dip switches was either not making good contact or in the wrong position (although I have no clue what the right position for these switches is). The box continues to perform flawlessly at the moment. I looked to see if a legend was silk screened on the circuit board for those dip switches but couldn't find any. Anyone have any idea what the switches are used for and what their normal position is?

Finally, it doesn't appear that PSIP data is getting stored into the TV Guide. All I'm seeing, at least as of this morning, is analog program data. Should digital data be stored their too? (Of course, this may depend on how reliable PSIP is in the area - I know that we are not currently transmitting any program data as we await computer modifications so that we can use a subscription service. I had been entering the program data manually but stopped doing that a few weeks ago.)

Anyway, for the moment, I'm back to being happy with the 3410! Thanks everyone for your help. And if you start having weird problems, it may be worthwhile to pop the case open (it's only a few screws) and exercise the dip switches. Just write down where the switches are set so that you don't forget how to reset them. And it sure would be nice to get an idea what each of those switches do - I'm sure they are for maintenance functions.

Whether there are separate TV Guide entries for the digital channels depends on the data stream sent in your local area, not on PSIP data.

John, I'm in Palatine too and my unit shows the HD stations in the guide. One possible difference though is that I get my signal using the QAM tuner (Comcast).

If you wanna quit playing games with your unit though and get a new one, order one from Gochnauers (http://www.gochnauers.com) The price I paid (about 2 months ago) was $630 shipped. With tax you probably paid more than that for your open box unit at Best Buy. Don't worry about Gochnauer's primitive website. They're a class act. I even checked them out at the BBB. They're a family owned business that's been operating for 40 years and have 0 unresolved complaints.

btw, my unit came with the 1.15 firmware and has worked flawlessly.

Does anyone with a LST-3410a receiving the Detroit DTV over the air stations successfully receive the guide information for program recording?

I live in Oakland County north of Detroit. I just purchased a LST-3510. The reception is great for all Detroit stations just using an antenna suspended in my attic. I plan to purchase a LST-3410a when my local Best Buy carries the unit. However, the program guide for the LST-3510 does not consistently populate. No big deal. The program guide appears to be a more critical component for the LST-3410a.

Jim

They're not the same thing. The 3510 uses the PSIP data for its guide, and not all digital channels are transmitting that information. The 3410 uses TVGuideOnline for its guide - completely different, much more like a CableTV or Satellite guide. (TWC in NC uses TVGuide to populate their PVR guide) It's still not perfect (in my area the ABC Digital channels are incorrect)but it's way more feature packed and usable than the guide on the 3510. You can see a demo of the TVGuideOnline UI if you google their site.

One thing to note, I have both the 3510 and 3410, and the remotes are 90% interchangeable - which means you power on one, you power on both. This can be a pain when the PVR is recording something and you power on the STB/DVD to watch a different channel. That power on signal will power off the PVR and end the recording. Still trying to figure out how to program my Harmony remote with discrete power on commands for the two boxes.

Other than that I'm pleased with both boxes - especially as I don't have to split the antenna signal - I just use the antenna pass-thru on the 3510 to feed the 3410.

Also - separate topic - there has been discussion that the guide is time based not program based, but I see evidence now that it appears to be both - see the comments above regarding ABC News Sunday - so does anyone know the logic the guide uses? Is it time, date AND program name? i.e. all three have to match for it to record?

-- gregor

Gregor -
As to your question about time based... I believe it is, but it tries to be more. I had a program that was on Wednesday one week and Tuesday the next at the same time of day. I had the record frequency set to regularly, and it automatically decided to record the show the next Tuesday.

How smart this switching is remains to be seen. It seemed to work in this case, but I had an almost identical situation last Spring where a show that I'd been recording for several months, shifted days and the 3410A did not record the shows on the new day. Perhaps they made a slight change to the name so it was not found in it s new time slot. There was also a few weeks hiatus between shows, so perhaps the 3410A lost its ability to search becasue of that.

Hyrax -

Interesting, I had thought that regularly was a synonym for recording something at the same time every day. But then I got confused by what happens at the weekend? The user manual really doesn't explain things well but I like your explanation - maybe I should stick to Regular rather than Weekly and hope that the Guide manages to find my programs when they switch days - especially as the Presidential Debates etc are going to keep pre-empting usual programing. It makes sense too that the guide has some smarts, it is from TVGuide after all. ;-)

-- gregor

I do not believe the unit is program based. In my case it failed to delay the start of 60 minutes and I recorded football instead of 60 min. i also missed the end of the movie which ended later. i am not sure about regularly but believe it depends on the program code, the VCR+, number that is puplished in the guide and elsewhere. I may be wrong. Or alternatively , there may be a code in the PSIP data identifying the program.

Art -
I think that the 3410A tries to follow the data that it has downloaded from the Guide and attempts to make some simple decisions based on this data. In my case it was able to find the show I wanted to record in the Guide but on a different day. In your case of taping football instead of taping 60 Minutes, I bet the Guide had 60 Min. starting at 7 PM, so that is when it started taping.

At least that is what it seems to be doing. Whenever I try to understand this Guide stuff, I feel like one of the three blind men who bump into an elephant and try to describe it to each other - not one of them has enough information to really describe it.

Gregor -
If my theory is correct, you'll only be able to record the debates using the Guide if they show up in the Guide. You'll be able to tape specific time slots using the VCR+ function.

Boy, you sure must be a news junky if you're recording the debates! I find them too staged and too (for the lack of a better word) political. The last debate I enjoyed was Lincoln vs. Douglas, and I couldn't record it in HD.

erinford,
I was able to use discrete commands (on and off) for my 3410 that can be found at remote central. I had to convert a Pronto file to a MX-700 file, but it worked.

Dave

Dave -
I've got a MX-500. Do you have any idea how I could get the discrete on/off command into my MX-500?

Also, do you have any idea if there are remote codes to change the output (from RGB to DVI, for example)? It would be very nice if I could figure that out.

Thanks,
Tim

Tim,
On the MX-500 I think you are stuck. You HAVE to either learn codes, or have them in it's database. That is why I got the 700 over the 500.

Dave

Dave -
The 700 is a lot more money for the one button that I'm missing. I may be able to talk the manager at my local HT store to load the file into his Pronto and then I'll be able to teach my MX-500.

Thanks,
Tim

Yeah...I thought of that as well. Or if you know someone with a 700, I can email you the file.

Dave

If you are not averse to spending money, try www.irclone.com for a PC-based programmer for the MX-500 and MX-600.

Later,
Bill

Just when I was trying to decide if $599 at Best Buy was low enough to make me go out and pick up a 3410 - Best Buy lowered the price again, to $549.

So why do almost all the other web sites still list it at $799? And why doesn't BB sell it through the internet?

Something tells me when I take the printout to my local Best Buy store they will say they never heard of this device.

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
erinford,
I was able to use discrete commands (on and off) for my 3410 that can be found at remote central. I had to convert a Pronto file to a MX-700 file, but it worked.

Dave

Dave

I downloaded a 3410 file from Remote Central for my MX-700 which did not work at all.

Please point me to the specific working file with discreet codes and as many of the other functions as possible.

Dave, you have a PM.

Thanks in advance.

Murray,
I didn't get the PM. PM me your email and I will send over my file to you.

Dave

New problem!!!!!!!!!!!!1

For several nights the recorder has failed to record programs set to record with the Guide. This morning I noticed that the digital stations would not record even when I pushed the record command in guide on a show that was currently on the air. Analog stations recorded normally. It would say that the digital station did not exist. Then I noticed that the digital station indicators had changed from 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, etc. to their UHF designations 46-1, 37-1... etc., I changed the station numbers back to the 4-1, 5-1 designations in the setup window of the guide. Now it records perfectly. Seems like all of a sudden the guide is redesignating the channel numbers to their UHF equivalent but the recorder will not activate on those numbers. Has anyone else had this problem? I've never seen this before in any of the three units. This one has been working over a month and a half perfectly until Monday night.

Originally posted by MrHifi
New problem!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Then I noticed that the digital station indicators had changed from 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, etc. to their UHF designations 46-1, 37-1... etc., I changed the station numbers back to the 4-1, 5-1 designations in the setup window of the guide. Now it records perfectly. Seems like all of a sudden the guide is redesignating the channel numbers to their UHF equivalent but the recorder will not activate on those numbers.

Art

Starting just last week, I also had one channel, 2.1 KCBS-DT L.A., generate it's UHF counterpart, 60.1, with no data while my Favortites still shows and tunes 2.1 and the Guide shows both 60.1 (no data) and 2.1 (normal data).

TVGuide's EPG data and/or some TV station/network data feeds changed something as the 3410's Gemstar IC and boxes firmware cannot dynamically change at all.

Art-

On tuesday evening mine missed recordings on NBC 8.1. The psip for my local station had reverted back to 46.1. The 3410 looked at 8.1, found nothing and turned itself off. This was evidend by the record in the list.

My local NBC has for what ever reason not sent out the correct psip for remapping. I see this on my t165 also.

I'm wondering if I shouldn't change my guide to reflect ALL of the uhf #s.
I tried last night by plugging in 40.1 into the remote and it went straight to 6.1 CBS like I had expected. I wonder if this could be used as a saftey net for when the stations loose their minds?

Lew

Dave -
If you don't mind, could you send me the MX-700 file? I PM'd you my email address.

Thanks,
Tim

I'm new to AVSforum, and have an LST-3410A question, which may be answered fully somewhere here, but it's going to take a long time to read through all 78 pages. I've been told in-store and by a product rep that this unit *cannot* be programmed without a cable connection. Is this true? It's somewhat ambiguous in the UG PDF (especially with unreadable screenshots), but messages here imply that program info is propogated OTA, and that . What I want is a unit that's fully functional with ATSC/NTSC OTA only, no cable/sat/phone. TIA,

Tim

Originally posted by Richard Winfeld
Just when I was trying to decide if $599 at Best Buy was low enough to make me go out and pick up a 3410 - Best Buy lowered the price again, to $549.

So why do almost all the other web sites still list it at $799? And why doesn't BB sell it through the internet?

Something tells me when I take the printout to my local Best Buy store they will say they never heard of this device.

On last Thursday,I went to my local best buy, and guess what - no 3410's. The clerk looked it up in his system, and noted that only a few Best Buy store are authorized to even order the 3410's, and that only two (out of dozens) of Best Buy stores in the DC area had any. One near Reston, and two apparently at a store almost to Baltimore.

So, they might as well lower the price to $50, since they don't have any in stock. He also told me that the stock number was marked with an X or something similar, which indicated that this was a closeout, and they wouldn't be getting any more.

Originally posted by MrHifi
New problem!!!!!!!!!!!!1

For several nights the recorder has failed to record programs set to record with the Guide. This morning I noticed that the digital stations would not record even when I pushed the record command in guide on a show that was currently on the air. Analog stations recorded normally. It would say that the digital station did not exist. Then I noticed that the digital station indicators had changed from 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, etc. to their UHF designations 46-1, 37-1... etc., I changed the station numbers back to the 4-1, 5-1 designations in the setup window of the guide. Now it records perfectly. Seems like all of a sudden the guide is redesignating the channel numbers to their UHF equivalent but the recorder will not activate on those numbers. Has anyone else had this problem? I've never seen this before in any of the three units. This one has been working over a month and a half perfectly until Monday night.


I had a similar problem. The channels on my unit were also changed to their UHF numbers. When I went to the guide and pressed the green button to set up recording of the show I wanted I didnt get any error message, but at record time it would start and stop instantly, and leave a zero length file in the program list. I renumbered the channels as you did and was able to get a recording but in 1/2 hour blocks and no title info or guide info.

Tim-

Welcome aboard and you were told wrong. The 3410a operates perfectly fine ATSC/NTSC OTA only.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

-Skip


Originally posted by Chimpunk
I'm new to AVSforum, and have an LST-3410A question, which may be answered fully somewhere here, but it's going to take a long time to read through all 78 pages. I've been told in-store and by a product rep that this unit *cannot* be programmed without a cable connection. Is this true? It's somewhat ambiguous in the UG PDF (especially with unreadable screenshots), but messages here imply that program info is propogated OTA, and that . What I want is a unit that's fully functional with ATSC/NTSC OTA only, no cable/sat/phone. TIA,

Tim

Chipmonk -
I believe that you need to get Guide info from from your local analog stations (PBS or ABC?). You may be able to use a VHF antenna, but I've never tried.
Tim

We have a no-cable (only satellite) house, so our LST-3410a is used over-the-air only. It works great and the guide is filled-in by a signal from an OTA station (usually PBS, but not always). Cable is definately not required for any 3410a functionality. The only thing cable provides the 3410a is additional channels versus OTA.

Originally posted by Hyrax
Boy, you sure must be a news junky if you're recording the debates! I find them too staged and too (for the lack of a better word) political. The last debate I enjoyed was Lincoln vs. Douglas, and I couldn't record it in HD.

No - actually, I was trying to say 180deg of what you understood. What I meant to say is that the debates push normal programming to other days and times. I don't want to come home eagerly anticipating Smallville or North Shore or Everwood ( examples of my wide ranging viewing habits :D ) and find hours of Kerry vs Bush scripted poli-marketing propaganda instead.

If 'record regularly' helps the Guide find my programs wherever they land (within the restrictions imposed by the frequency of Guide updates) then that's for me.

BTW - I hear most people thought Lincoln won, but those in the hall gave it to Douglas :)

Cheers -- gregor

Originally posted by Richard Winfeld
Just when I was trying to decide if $599 at Best Buy was low enough to make me go out and pick up a 3410 - Best Buy lowered the price again, to $549.

So why do almost all the other web sites still list it at $799? And why doesn't BB sell it through the internet?

Something tells me when I take the printout to my local Best Buy store they will say they never heard of this device.

Originally posted by BenSanford
On last Thursday,I went to my local best buy, and guess what - no 3410's. The clerk looked it up in his system, and noted that only a few Best Buy store are authorized to even order the 3410's, and that only two (out of dozens) of Best Buy stores in the DC area had any. One near Reston, and two apparently at a store almost to Baltimore.

The same thing just happened to me in Portland, none of the stores here stock them, they have never stocked them, their warehouse doesn't stock them, and their system will not allow them to order one. :rolleyes:

Earl

Originally posted by ned215
John, I'm in Palatine too and my unit shows the HD stations in the guide. One possible difference though is that I get my signal using the QAM tuner (Comcast).

If you wanna quit playing games with your unit though and get a new one, order one from Gochnauers (http://www.gochnauers.com) The price I paid (about 2 months ago) was $630 shipped. With tax you probably paid more than that for your open box unit at Best Buy. Don't worry about Gochnauer's primitive website. They're a class act. I even checked them out at the BBB. They're a family owned business that's been operating for 40 years and have 0 unresolved complaints.

btw, my unit came with the 1.15 firmware and has worked flawlessly.

Well, howdy neighbor! Good to see you here. In what part of Palatine do you live?

Actually, the unit I purchased at BB was not an open box. It was a brand new sealed box unit being sold at their new price of $599.99. Since I exercised those 5 dip switches I've had no further problems with my unit. It's been working perfectly!

I've been really busy the past few days so haven't had a chance to re-check the program guide for digital programs. I may not have time tomorrow either since we're supposed to be out of town most of the day. I will check this weekend though.

Art -
I just discovered a number of my stations have suddenly reverted to their UHF designations (2-1 is now 19-1). I believe that it may have something to do with the fact that I edited the station numbers because it was too slow to move the stations from the bottom to the top. I believe I confused the guide and its response was to really screw everything up.

I reset everything, rescanned all stations, and am hoping that everything will come back to normal over night.

Originally posted by BenSanford
On last Thursday,I went to my local best buy, and guess what - no 3410's. The clerk looked it up in his system, and noted that only a few Best Buy store are authorized to even order the 3410's, and that only two (out of dozens) of Best Buy stores in the DC area had any. One near Reston, and two apparently at a store almost to Baltimore.

So, they might as well lower the price to $50, since they don't have any in stock. He also told me that the stock number was marked with an X or something similar, which indicated that this was a closeout, and they wouldn't be getting any more.

Ask your BestBuy clerk or manager about "customer fulfillment". I had a similar experience here in San Antonio (clerk looked it up, said Austin was the closest store authorized to stock the 3410 but had no units projected for delivery there). The clerk then went to a customer fulfillment screen where he was able to show that there were 2 units available in a warehouse and proceeded to input a "customer fulfillment" order for me. He gave me the choice of in-store or direct-to-home delivery with no shipping/handling charges either way. I chose the home delivery; the unit shipped UPS 3rd-day and arrived safe and sound this Tuesday. Unit is new in box and has the 1.15 firmware - everything seems to be working fine once I got the DTV channel numbers correctly mapped to the guide.

Recommend you check back with the BestBuy folks and see if they will do something similar.

Cheers,

Mike

Thanks for the replies, appreciated. BTW, Best Buy #107 in Torrance, CA (this store gets high-end home theater stuff first), has a half dozen fresh units on their stock shelves, none on display.

Tim

Originally posted by MrHifi
New problem!!!!!!!!!!!!1

For several nights the recorder has failed to record programs set to record with the Guide. This morning I noticed that the digital stations would not record even when I pushed the record command in guide on a show that was currently on the air. Analog stations recorded normally. It would say that the digital station did not exist. Then I noticed that the digital station indicators had changed from 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, 9-1, etc. to their UHF designations 46-1, 37-1... etc., I changed the station numbers back to the 4-1, 5-1 designations in the setup window of the guide. Now it records perfectly. Seems like all of a sudden the guide is redesignating the channel numbers to their UHF equivalent but the recorder will not activate on those numbers. Has anyone else had this problem? I've never seen this before in any of the three units. This one has been working over a month and a half perfectly until Monday night.
Dude, I have been having this same exact problem since Sunday, and it's been p*ssing me off. I too had noticed that the numbers were now listed as the UHF counterparts, but I didn't bother to redesignate them since when I change the channel to those UHF channels, it goes to that channel and then re-maps to the typical 4-1, 5-1, 7-1, 9-1 channel number. I figured that wasn't the problem. Thankfully, for everything I have been wanting to record, I've been there to manually do it when it crapped out.

Thanks so much for figuring out the solution. I will fix this when I get home.

Dave

I had the same issue and caught an earful from my wife because Joey didn't record last night! One thing I am doing is manually setting up recording and not using the TV Guide setup. I have yet to have an issue setting up my own recording times.

Dave

Resetting the numbers seems to work. Obviously, LG instituted a reflash of firmware through the download. This did not just happen to at least three of us simultaneously. I go through this updating all the time with 4DTV. They update every couple of months as necessary. Let's keep in contact on this issue. It is not a trivial matter when you program in material and the program fails to record. The other issue that I have noticed recently is that even if the unit reports a conflicting program has been selected at the same time, it will not erase the conflicting program the way it used to. Anyone else seen this?

I had the same thing happen. I noticed it and correct before it affecting any timers though.

I don't think LG intstuted any new firmware as it doesn't work like a DSS receiver does (you have to send in the LG to get the firmware flashed). I think this is was a bug between the LG and the TV guide data that was sent down.

My 3410 is a replacement that I got back in April. Used it in the Spring with no problems and then let it rest over the summer. Now when I turned it back on for the fall OTA programs, I find that the clock can't be set and recordings can't be made. Nor does the TV Guide come up. The unit gets the OTA programs ok, but the recording function just doesn't work. The green panel "reserved" light is on, and I can't get it off. There are no reserved recordings in Program List. The unit seems frozen. LG Electonics customer support is of no help at all---they have suggested unplugging the unit for varying periods of time, none of which make any difference. Any one have any suggestions on this?

LG says I can return the unit for a swap, but they want $89.99 as a labor charge, which just doesn't sound right for a unit with a one-year parts waranty. :( :confused:

There is no option to send a new firmware download via the Guide transmission. There is more than one box that uses the Guide information, unlike GI/Motorola's 4DTV receivers.

However, it wouldn't surprise me to learn that the Guide information comes from a centrailized location and that they sent out invalid information to a number of cities which caused the LG3410a's firmware to reset the Guide channel info.

Since not everyone with an LG3410a had a problem, then it must be something specific to the receivers/locations which had the problem.

CarlP -
Try resetting your 3410A by unplugging it and let it sit for a short time. Put back in the Demo pin. Turn it on & unplug. Turn it off & unplug. Remove demo pin. Turn it on. It should now be completely reset and you'll need to go through a setup as you did when you first bought it. That should work...hopefully.

Tim

CarlP, What Tim said should do the trick. However, if it does not work, check which firmware version you have under "troubleshooting". If it is not 1.15, call LG and tell them you would like the firmware updated to the latest version. They shouldn't charge for that.

If you are on anything but 1.15, then it *might* explain your 3410a's problems.

Thanks for the suggestions. Just got off the phone with LG and a different rep than the snippy one I had this am. He agreed to waive the charge and they are sending me mailing labels to again swap-out this unit. This will also upgrade to 1.15----I have 1.14 on this machine, dated 3/3/04, so 1.15 must be pretty recent. Since you say I should have the 1.15 and they are now willing to just swap the unit at no charge to me, guess I will forego any further experimentation with trying to reset the machine and just await getting the new unit. Meanwhile, I still have my HD230, which is really a lot easier to use and gives the same great HD reception, so it is no great hardship to do without the unit for few weeks.

Any problem with putting in a 320GB drive in place of the 120GB supplied? Looks easy to do, and from what I read in past posts, works just fine .:)

I just bought one a couple hours ago at BB in Dallas for $549.99. The salesman told me the reason for the mark down is because they are a "discontinued item."

CarlP-

Are the remote codes completely different on the 3410a vs HD230?

I'm looking for a second recorder and do not want the hassle of same/similiar codes.

tia

Lew

No, in my experience the codes are pretty much interchangeable, so you have to be sure one unit is off when you are controlling the other. But they have different modes of operation and different buttons on the remotes for accessing the functions, so you can't use the same remote for both. I have both remotes programmed into my Pronto unit.

Did he say if there is a new model coming out that replaces the 3410? If so do you know when it will be available?

John

Originally posted by TomWhitlow
I just bought one a couple hours ago at BB in Dallas for $549.99. The salesman told me the reason for the mark down is because they are a "discontinued item."

I'll bet they have had so many problems with this model, and so many swap-outs with them paying the freight both ways, that they just decided to scrap it and bring out a better model that will have fewer returns and complaints. Shows the wisdom of the old adage to never buy the first generation hardware.

This was not the first generation. The 230 was. With all its quirks, this remains the only way to timeshift HD material. As many on here know, I've been through three of them to get a working model. LG is to be commended for standing behind a product that depends on so many systems working correctly. The fact that no one else has come out with one almost a year after it was first introduced tells me that this is not a routine achievement. Yes, it would havee been nice to have it working perfectly, but I just finished watching over a dozen HD programs I recorded during the week and they played back as if I were watching the broadcast. That is a real achievement. When you see NYPD Blue in HD and 5.1 audio, in its original broadcast resolution that is really something. I'm glad I didn't wait even though I waited almost 3 months for a reimbursement from LG. The pleasure I have gotten out of this unit is worth the $800.00 I spent.

I think there is a next generation unit on the way. It has a built in DVD writer that you can use to archive HD material or down-converted material. I forget where I saw the details, but I believe there is a thread discussing it in this forum.

Well, I've finally experienced problems with my 3410a. I've had it since they were first released, and it's on version 1.12 of the firmware. On Tuesday when I powered it on to set up some records I received the message:

"Invalid AV1, AV2, HDD scheduled recording"

I could not pull up the TV Guide info. at all. I powered it off and went to work. When I got home, I powered it up and all seemed well again. I set up a couple of records via the TV Guide - the next day, those records showed up in the program list as 0 length records and there was now no guide data in the TV Guide.

I next tried setting up manual records via the VCR+ option, but they wouldn't actually record - the time would arrive and it never powered up and recorded. I can hit record when it's on and have it record, but that's it.

I have tried resetting it, changing the zip code, resetting using the demo pin, etc. but can't get it to function other than as a receiver, no ability to set up records for future times or get updated guide data.

My question is: Do you think that a firmware upgrade will fix this, or should I ask LG for a replacement when I call on Monday?

Any suggestions appreciated, thanks.

Todd

Todd -
I beleive something is happening at TV Guide. My Guide suddenly has a number of stations with their UHF desingantions (19-1) instead of the 2-1 that it used to have. This screwed up some of the things I was going to record, and then I kept on getting the "Invalid AV1, AV2, HDD scheduled recording". I got rid of that message by deleting all of the scheduled recording. THen I went through a full reset and scan. Here is what I did:

Unplugged the machine for about 3 hours

Put in the Demo pin

Plugged it back in and Turned it on. There was no clock on the little LCD screen at this point.

Unplugged, removed demo pin, plugged back in, had it do a scan of all stations. I didn't delete any stations atthis point.

Turned it off at 2 AM.

Turned it back on at noon the next day (which happened to be today) and everything was back to normal except I had to remap a number of the stations (19-1 was mapped to 2-1, and so on).

And then I had to go through and re-organize the guide and delete stations in the Setup screen you see when you press 'Menu'

Todd,

Hyrax and I both experienced the need to remap the stations from theirs UHF designations to their VHF values. In my case, all the stations with VHF station numbers like 4-1, 5-1,7-1,9-1, 11-1,13-1 required remapping from their actual UHF position in terms of frequency, 42, 36, ..... Go through the remapping at least.

Took in my receipt yesterday to BB and got a $54.25 credit to "price match" the new $549.99 price. Wouldn't have known about the closeout but for this forum. The unit is working fine so far with the 1.12 FW. The Guide is more trouble than it's worth for me. I've been programming manually via VCR+. I like the more precise control of start and stop times.

Hyrax and Mr. Hifi,

Thanks, I'm going to try some more resetting and re-scanning. I hadn't had the problem with the channels getting re-mapped, they still show up in the guide as they should: 2-1, 4-1, 5-1, etc. - although, no guide data of course.

I'll post an update on what happens.

Todd

Todd, LG told me that firmware upgrades can only be done at their service center when I inquired about my upgrading the unit via the service port on the rear from some cd or other that they could send me. If that is correct (and I don't know that it is), then you should send in your unit for a replacement and demand that they waive the labor charge. Ask for Michael in customer service or a supervisior if they want to stick you with the $90 charge if you've had the unit more than 90 days.

I've been toying with getting a 3410a for months now and something always seemed to happen to stop me. I got a Moxi DVR from my cable co. and it's ok but I find myself only recording network HD stuff so I was thinking about sending it back and getting either a 3410a or a Samsung SIR-T165 and a JVC 40K. I can also hook the 40K to my Motorola 6200 cable box via firewire if I want something off HBO-HD or SHO-HD.

I tried to get a 3410a from the local BB but could not get one. Even got a manager involved and they told me there are none in the warehouses so they can't order me one. They didn't seem to interested in really trying very hard. I tried calling the 800 number and they would not do anything either. Just said see the local store.

Like I said I will mainly be recording OTA network HD programs so which setup would work best? I've read allot and they both seem to have good and bad points. I'll probably end up with a 40K either way.

I guess all these reports lockups and so on with the 3410a have me a little gun shy on one of those.

Any suggestions or tips are appreciated.

Thanks,

Jim

Originally posted by MrHifi
Todd,

Hyrax and I both experienced the need to remap the stations from theirs UHF designations to their VHF values. In my case, all the stations with VHF station numbers like 4-1, 5-1,7-1,9-1, 11-1,13-1 required remapping from their actual UHF position in terms of frequency, 42, 36, ..... Go through the remapping at least.
Hey MrHiFi, thanks for the tip on re-mapping the stations. When I got home from work on Friday, this is the first thing I did, and I successfully recorded two programs on Friday and one on Saturday using the TVGuide record function. I'll have to keep an eye on the channel numbers (whether they are UHF or VHF) in the future when I program things so I won't get screwed again.

This seems to obviously have been a problem in the DC area with you and me. And it sounds like with your Baltimore channels were affected as well. Weird.

Thanks again,
Dave

I had the same crashing problem as John Trautschold. I flipped the switches twice to see if I could get beyond the Auto Demo crashing and it worked for a few hours, even acquiring TV Guide program data.

But then it started crashing all over again, every minute or so.

This was the only unit available at Best Buy in San Francisco, and it was an open-box unit (previously returned because it crashed?). Blue dot and version 1.15.

It would have been nice to archive to the JVC 5U, but I guess I'll have to wait for LG's next generation.

Dos anyone have the updated details about the 3410 replacement unit with, or without, the DVD recording capability?

FireWire, CableCard, DVD codecs and compatibility?

Motoman: The SIR T165 is a fine unit and I have one I could sell you if you want, BUT it doesn't have the hard-drive recording capability of the HD230 or the LST 3410, which are their chief attractions. Have you looked on ebay to see what is available?

Originally posted by CarlP
Motoman: The SIR T165 is a fine unit and I have one I could sell you if you want, BUT it doesn't have the hard-drive recording capability of the HD230 or the LST 3410, which are their chief attractions. Have you looked on ebay to see what is available?

Carl,
Yes I have found some on e-bay and a few online sources that sell the refurb models. I figured with the 165 I could record off of that to the 40K via the firewire connection. I did find a pretty good deal on the 3410a online thet was mentioned earlier by someone else but I'm still not sure on one of those.

Thanks,
Jim

I have the Program Problem now as well. I get the error message listed earlier in this thread. I bought mine on an open box and don't think I have the demo pin. I am going to unplug for the night and hope that it fixes the issue! Any other suggestions?

Dave

PS My firmware is 1.15 too!

Dave -
You may want to call LG and ask them if the demo pin is needed to reset the box. If it is, perhaps you can get them to send you one. I may be wrong, but it seems have been the only thing that would get me out of trouble once.

Another thing you may try is to tell the box you're in another Zip code (01776 is Concord, Mass) and do not have cable. Then do a full scan and let the box sit over night. This hopefully will clear any local data it has downloaded. Next day give it your correct Zip, and start the setup process again.

Hyrax,
I unplugged the unit last night and let it sit overnight. This morning, all of the information was gone. The funny thing was the clock was stuck at 1:00 pm on October 1st. I think that was when everything went screwy with TV Guide! I wish there was a way to disable the TV Guide anyway since I never use it! I now only set up my own recordings in the VCR+ screen.

We will see if things record tonight or not.

Dave

Dave -
Hopefully all will work now for you. When I've had problems with the system it always seemed that the key was getting the clock cleared and then doing a full scan, so keep your fingers crossed. If it doesn't work, you may want to try the zip code trick.

Tim

I will do that. One thing though...the TV Guide was completely empty this morning and I take that as a good sign!

Dave

I'm wondering if anyone is getting guide information for -2 stations? It is odd, but I get the information for 2-2, but the Guide says it is actually station 2-1. This turns out to be a good thing because 2-2 is PBS HD station and 2-1 is the PBS SD station. If I wasn't getting the information for PBS 2-2, I'd have no idea what was on PBS HD.

I was able to edit the guide so it now says it is 2-2, so there is no longer any confusion that way. However, it means that I now have 2-0 and 2-2. Does anyone know if it is possibleto insert a station in the guide?

Then I noticed that I recieve 44-1, 44-2, 44-3, & 44-4, but all I've got in the guide is 44-1. My local TV-Guide does not give any information for these stations, so I never know what will be on them. I have to go to the net, I suppose.

I never liked Tivo or Replay (or DirecTV, for that matter), because of compression artifacts. We really hate seeing compression artifacts, so we dropped D* and returned a Replay because of them. When I go to a friends house and watch their Tivo, the artifacts are harder to see on their 27" TV, but everyonce in a while they are noticable. I truly believe that a S-VHS recording on a good deck looks better than any of the above's digital recordings. This is all in way of telling you that my wife and I are quite critical when it comes to recording quality. It is not a Tivo bash, the Tivo software and everything you can do with it is wonderful.

When using the 3410A, I've found that recording analog broadcasts at anything below the best quality produces inferior results (and these inferior results are similar to PVR recordings at their best quality). For interest, I used my 3410A to record the same PBS show from a digital broadcast and from a analog broadcast. In both cases the show was 480i and 90 minutes long. The recording of the digital broadcast was a bit less than 3 GB and recording of the analog broadcast was 6 GB. The resulting recordings seemed to me to look identical - and I saw no compression artifacts in either case.

My conclusion is to never record from analog broadcasts unless I have no choice and that the 3410A does a superior job of recording OTA material.

Hyrax,

What you are seeing is consistent with my unit's performance. My PBS HD which is in the Guide is on 26-1. SD digital which is not in the Guide is on 26-2. This is the same programming that appears on NTSC Ch. 26 which appears in the Guide. 26-3, 26-4 and a myriad of others are not in the Guide probably because there is just so much space. Frankly, i am pleased with the Guide's info. I also receive program info. via my 4DTV guide. The 3410's guide does a much better job of describing the programming.

On another matter--Tonight I am going to begin setting the record selections via the VCR+ button in order to avoid the interruption that occurs when the previous program runs 2 minutes long and puts up a splash screen in the next program. Of course, i may miss the beginning, Intro., of programs but let's see how it works. With 3 SVHS VCR's and the 3410A running every night, I have quite a light display in the corner of the room where they reside.

Art -
I do like the info that is in the guide. I just wish I could get the info for some of the 'alternate' stations. I suspect it is there not because of space limitations, but because it is not being sent. I'm going to call my PBS station and find out.

As to the light display... I have been taping dark gray filters over the displays. All of them have become too bright, and the 3410A is brighter than many - particularily when recording. The 50% filter works great.

Has anyone found a BB in the CA Bay Area that has 3410s for sale. The website says to go to the store, but all the stores I've called don't carry the item. Is it just not carried in Northern CA?

John

jcg,
I found my 3410a at the Santa Rosa store, but it was an open box and the last one in stock. I also checked Marin County, Berkely and Walnut Creek and none of them had it as well. I was thinking of getting tow at one point, but 1 is good enough.

Good luck!

Dave

Hyrax and Mr. HiFi,

I haven't had any luck getting my 3410a to start working again after multiple resets (with and without the demo pin), unplugging for hours at a time, etc.

I also tried putting in different zip codes and then changing back to mine, all without any improvement.

I can record analog, but not digital, thus no HDTV recordings. The TV Guide still has no data.

I called LG yesterday and opened a case for swap-out of the box. They are sending me shipping labels today.

Thanks for all the input, I'm still playing with it until I get the shipping labels and I'll let everybody know the final outcome.

Todd

I am in Austin, TX.
Went looking for the LST-3410a at the local Best Buy.
The clerk was very helpful. However, they had none in stock.
He checked all the Austin stores, the San Antonio stores, the Waco store, and several stores in the Dallas area. None of them had the unit in stock.
Also checked the warehouse: no stock.

Also, he noticed a date on the computer screen that he said indicated that Best Buy would not carry any more LST-3410a after 10/17/04.

He said (just a guess) it was likely that this particular unit was being discontinued and that the price drop was to sell all remaining stock.

Too bad. If LG comes out with a new replacement (probably new generation receiver) it will no doubt cost more than the $549.

I know several online stores still have it for sale. However, they are much more expensive. Guess I will have to decide if I want to wait.

Originally posted by PhillyC
Are you archiving OTA or cable HD?

As noted earlier, I can send HD recordings from the HDD to D-VHS, but if the original source was cable, playback has glitches every few seconds. Playback is perfect if the original source was OTA. (Both sources play back perfectly from the HDD.)

CKNA posted he had a similar problem, but I'm wondering if anyone else has seen this behavior.

Phil, sorry for the delayed response. I haven't been on the forum until today.

The only things I archive are OTA. There's not much on cable that I want to archive on cable, and I have the Comcast 6208 for cable HD.

Jim

I do have the same problem, can not archive cable correctly.

Spike & PhillyC,
Have you been able to archive SD material that came from cable? Does it give you problems if you record directly to D-VHS without first saving it on the HDD? Are you able to archive HD material at a lower resolution (I don't know if the D-VHS recorders allow you to do this) and get good playback from tape?

I'm asking because I'm on the verge of buying a D-VHS recorder and want to know of potential problems.

Hi, Guys,

It seems others here have the same problem with HDD>D-VHS, which is why I'm living with the limitation and not exchanging the unit.

Hyrax, yes you CAN record HD cable DIRECTLY to D-VHS and have perfect playback. (I have not tried SD material, either direct or via HDD.) I summarized the situation earlier:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4185996#post4185996

The only info I'm lacking is if the others who have this problem also have Comcast cable, or if this happens with ALL cableco signals. If so, then it would be an LG problem.

Phil -
I hope to get a D-VHS deck next week and will let you know if I have problems recording Adelphia cable HD signals.

Tim

Would someone be kind enough to recommend the quietest, largest, most reliable, and successfully implemented hard drive substitution for the LST3410A?

Art -
The Maxtor 300GB 5400RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model 5A300J0, has been recommended to me by several people who have put it in their 3410A. 5400 RPM means that it runs a bit cooler. Supposedly quiet. Although this drive is fairly similar to what is already in the 3410A, I've not wanted to take the chance that it might put more load on the 3410A's power supply, and I've not upgraded. Also, these drives cost $200+, which makes a DVHS tape deck seem like a better idea to me.

Originally posted by MrHifi
Would someone be kind enough to recommend the quietest, largest, most reliable, and successfully implemented hard drive substitution for the LST3410A?

Do a search for the Maxtor 5A300J0-QV. This is the QuickView CE drive that is optimized for DVR use. It's quiet and so far reliable. The 3410A is certainly no warmer than it was with the original drive. I'm filling it up for test purposes and it appears it will hold about 40 hours of HD from an assortment of network programming.

Be sure the part number has the "QV" at the end, or it's not the CE drive. I know other drives work and cost a few dollars less, but why take a chance of putting extra strain on the sensitive 3410A?

The large drive is nice for holding on to recordings, especially since you can't archive form HDD>D-VHS as noted previously

Hello all,

This thread had been very helpful to me in deciding to purchase a 3410A last month so that I might record HD OTA programming. Sadly, my home's location, combined with an inability to mount an attic or roof antenna, means that I was confined to one HD station, which outrweighs its otherwise flawless performance.

With no hope for HD OTA programming to improve in my area anytime soon, I am thinking of selling it, along with its original packaging and the SS antenna I purchased. Before I go to eBay, I am wondering if there is an online resource anyone can recommend for selling such items, or perhaps swapping them.

Thanks in advance for any help offered.

Dave

Dave -
Too bad about the lack of reception at your home. I've no advice on where to sell, but there may be other antenna options open to you. Have you looked into using a Winegard SquareShooter SS-1000? They look much like a small dish like those used by DirecTV and may work for you. Check out http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/Welcome.aspx to see what your antenna needs may be.
Tim

Originally posted by PhillyC
Hi, Guys,

It seems others here have the same problem with HDD>D-VHS, which is why I'm living with the limitation and not exchanging the unit.

Hyrax, yes you CAN record HD cable DIRECTLY to D-VHS and have perfect playback. (I have not tried SD material, either direct or via HDD.) I summarized the situation earlier:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4185996#post4185996

The only info I'm lacking is if the others who have this problem also have Comcast cable, or if this happens with ALL cableco signals. If so, then it would be an LG problem.

I have encountered no problems archiving to DVHS from the HDD of the 3410...all Comcast high definition cable recordings play back just fine.

Originally posted by Rudy1
I have encountered no problems archiving to DVHS from the HDD of the 3410...all Comcast high definition cable recordings play back just fine.

Thanks for the input.

How about anyone in the Chicago area?

I have one in the Bay area I think I'm going to return unless someone here would like to buy it

Bill you have a PM

Originally posted by BenSanford
On last Thursday,I went to my local best buy, and guess what - no 3410's. The clerk looked it up in his system, and noted that only a few Best Buy store are authorized to even order the 3410's, and that only two (out of dozens) of Best Buy stores in the DC area had any. One near Reston, and two apparently at a store almost to Baltimore.


Which store would that be? I live in Laurel, almost walking distance from the Laurel BB and a short drive from the Columbia one. I bought a 3510 this week, but have been thinking about returning it for a 3410. "almost to Baltimore" for you is pretty much in my backyard. But there are still a few to choose from.

-Chris

I got the same info about Best Buy as well. Security Blvd store, I think, and Reston. However, the Reston store could NOT FIND the 3410 they alledgedly had in stock. I just decided to get it online someplace else for MORE money. Oh, well!

You know, I never get in on these super low priced closeouts, open box deals because, well, my luck is just not that good.

But, I was out in Pasadena earlier this week on business and decided to pop into the BB there.

Lo and behold, there were 4 LG 3410's and several 3510's.

There actually was one factory sealed 3410 with a 451-XXX serial number, which means it probably has v1.15 firmware.

I have HDTV's in several rooms and get excellent OTA HD reception, so, I bought one for the $549 close out price.

Miracles really do happen.

So what do you guys and gals think about the JVC D-VHS and LST 3410A combo? Is it better than the JVC D-VHS and Samsung SIR T165 combo?

I went to Best Buy tonight to order a LST-3410A. I had the manager go through the Customer Fullfilment screen as suggested. There was no LST-3410As to be found in Region 5.

What I did find of interest to pass on was, per the Best Buy manager, Best Buy was putting the Lst-3410A on clearance in 9 days.

Jim

Is the 3410A supposed to power off after recording?

My unit, Build date June 2004, SN 451-XXXXX, FW 1.15 does not turn off after recording. Some earlier posts, e.g., post #1166 on 06/26/04 indicate unit powering off after recording (with later problems it not powering off). With the unit not powering off (1) the program guide does not update, (2) unwanted wear of the machine. Called LG yesterday: first she said the unit is not supposed to power off immediately - implying it is supposed to after some time. When told that this unit never powers off, she put me on hold, and came back saying it is not supposed to power off at all. Other 3410A owners: does your unit power off after recording finishes?

Originally posted by jhamilto

What I did find of interest to pass on was, per the Best Buy manager, Best Buy was putting the Lst-3410A on clearance in 9 days.



So what does that mean? It's already been reduced to $549. Will it go even lower in 9 days?

I have a 3410A. My turns off about 1 minute after the the recording is finished, if there are more programs to record. If it has recorded the last program, it stays on and asks if you want to turn it off or not. Mine has the latest firmware. I bought it from BB about 3 weeks ago.

jori,
The only time my unit didn't power off is when I was watching the program that I was recording. I hit the menu button to look something up and it never shut off after the recording was finished. That was the only time it hasn't powered off in the 4 weeks that I have owned it.

Dave

I've had my unit since July (firmware 1.15) and the only time it hasn't turned off after a recording was when the unit was already on when the timed recording started.

The 3410A turns on 2 minutes before a scheduled recording and actually begins recording 1 minute early. Similarly, it stops recording 1 minute after the scheduled time and turns off 2 minutes after the schedule time. Consecutive recordings will necessarily adjust this behavior.

The 3410A will turn off automatically if:

- It is off when a timed recording begins
- no key on the unit or on the remote is pressed during the recording

I have, however, experienced several instances when it does not turn off properly.

I wish LG would change both of the above. They don't make sense to me.

Those items are just annoying, but if you have a home theater and use macros in your remote, you must also be careful because the power off code will turn the unit off even if it is in the process of recording. This is really dumb.

Meanwhile, my replacement unit continues to work well, except for the inability to archive from HDD>D-VHS.

Philly's experience concerning turnoff is precisely what I have experienced.

Originally posted by A. Vandelay
So what does that mean? It's already been reduced to $549. Will it go even lower in 9 days?

When I bought mine (a few days ago) I asked for a reduction to the online listed price of $549 since it was an open box. The Best Buy salesman told me (after checking with his manager) that it was already down to the very lowest price they could sell it and they could make no reduction even for an open box.

Tom,
They told me the same thing and I started to walk out the door. The manager then had a change of heart and sold it to me for $400. This was when the retail price was $799. But mine didn't come with a remote or any cables. I was able to get the remote codes off Remote Central for my MX-700.

Dave

I just bought mine from BB today (10-9) Here is my experience. I called the 5 BB's in my area and everyone said they were out of stock and none could be ordered. Humm, on a whim I went over to my local BB and there it was still on display. I inquired about getting the display, fortunately they still had one in an unopened box in the back (their last one). I asked about any further discounts in the future and the guy said that the computer showed that they were not getting any more and that he could no longer order them. But, he suggested I buy it now and if in 30 days the price dropped I could return it and get it for the discounted price. I'm not sure about their credibility at this point, but if they were going to further discount them there wouldn't be many left at that price, better to buy it now and return it for the discount if the price drops.

i am confused. isnt this a newer model? why is are they going on sale so soon? this is a long thread and i just started looking, so please fill me in. Is it a bad unit, or is LG replacing it, or is BB just decided not to sell it? this seems like a good fit for me with digital cable. what is the deal?

-rob

Looks like a BB decision to stop carrying this particular product, and perhaps sell only DVR's with Tivo functionality. I admire the HD DirecTivo, but the present price is too steep. I just want to time-shift network HD, and the 3410A at $550 works out well for me.

Like many on this forum looking for the LG lst-3410a, I came up empty in the SF Bay Area, however, one Best Buy looked up on his computer and saw that the Stockton BB had three in stock. I drove over to Stockton's BB, and I'm now a proud owner of a brand new lst-3410a! There is one more unopened box, and the demo on the floor.

Well, I've had no luck finding one at BB's in the Minneapolis/St. Paul area. I had them check the computer at several stores, and there are none to be found anywhere in the Midwest. I did see on one of the screens that it is already classified as being on CLEARANCE and that BB's "Out Of Stock" date for this product is 10/17/2004. I doubt further price reductions are coming.

Before I order one online, can anyone confirm that the LST-3410a's program guide works OK in the Twin Cities for most of the digital channels?

Isn't Sonys DVR with cable card slot coming out soon? It seems anyone with cable would want one of these.

Originally posted by Bill
Isn't Sonys DVR with cable card slot coming out soon? It seems anyone with cable would want one of these.

Not if you want IEEE 1394 support.

Thanks for the tip! I've been looking around the Bay Area for a BB that had one and found one open box unit in Chico that they are shipping down to a store near me. But after I saw your post I figured I'd drive the hour to Stockton and I think I got the last one (except the demo unit is still there and they are selling it for 10% off the sale price).

I also spoke with the salesguy at the store about HD recording and he said the salesguys just got out of a meeting about a new version of the HD Tivo for cable/OTA only. He was aware of the DirectTV version, and said this is definately a different model and they would have it in the store in about 2 weeks. Anyone heard of this yet?

John

PS: Since I don't need 2 3410s if anyone is interested in the one being shipped down from Chico let me know. I bought a 3410 when they first came out and had all the problems posted on this thread (and returned it), but since version 1.15 is out I figured I'd give it another try. As long as the one I got from Stockton works I won't need the Chico one.

Originally posted by micmel2
Like many on this forum looking for the LG lst-3410a, I came up empty in the SF Bay Area, however, one Best Buy looked up on his computer and saw that the Stockton BB had three in stock. I drove over to Stockton's BB, and I'm now a proud owner of a brand new lst-3410a! There is one more unopened box, and the demo on the floor.

Originally posted by bills2k
So what do you guys and gals think about the JVC D-VHS and LST 3410A combo? Is it better than the JVC D-VHS and Samsung SIR T165 combo?

Bills2k,

I have had the JVC 30k nearly a year. I also got the 165 at around the same time. Probably fewer than 20% of my unattended recordings were successful. I was awaiting my third 165. (The first replacement didn't work.) when a Samsung tech told me none of the 165's could successfully control more than one sequential event. I took my stack of emails with Samsung to my dealer (Tweeter/HiFi Buys) and they gave me a full refund, probably 4 months after my purchase.

I bought one of the first 3410A's near the end of March. Though I had to have the first unit replaced, the second (still firmware v. 1.12)has worked very well with the JVC. One good thing is that you only have to deal with one unit when making your initial recording. Archiving to the 30k is very easy and reliable. The OTA tuner is better on the 3410A, and the PQ is better. Failed recordings have virtually ceased since I switched from BellSouth cable to Comcast.

Jim

Ironically, the BB web site now has the 3410 priced at $7xx

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1076628571351&skuId=6287047&type=product

I'll bet those $549.00 units were refurbs.

Originally posted by MrHifi
I'll bet those $549.00 units were refurbs.

Art

Most of them were refurbished and repacks, but, I got one factory sealed with v1.15 firmware and a 451-XXX serial number for $549.

A friend of mine in the Bay area did too.

You have 2 now? Congratulations!!!!!!! You and I should get a check from LGE for doing a better job analysing and resolving many of the problems these things had back in February of this year.

If i could get another for $400.00, I'd buy 2 more. I love mine now. I run it 4 to 8 hours a day and record over 6 hours a day on average for timeshifting to avod commercials and watch other HD shows.

Originally posted by MrHifi
You have 2 now? Congratulations!!!!!!! You and I should get a check from LGE for doing a better job analysing and resolving many of the problems these things had back in February of this year.

If i could get another for $400.00, I'd buy 2 more. I love mine now. I run it 4 to 8 hours a day and record over 6 hours a day on average for timeshifting to avod commercials and watch other HD shows.

Art

I use one as a Time Shift HDTV source and the other as a FireWire hub for several D-VHS decks on a switch to output DVI video.

I think it has the best video output I have ever seen to date on my DLP.

Did you ever get the RGB to work satisfactorily, or, are you watching the Y,Pb,Pr output?

I just got a box and immediately swapped the drive out for the Maxtor.
Worked great except for the channel mapping issue others have reported, that is until I got about 25 to 30 items recorded!

Now it takes just a bit long to spin up and get ready and read all the directory entries, so recording fails, unless I just leave the box on all the time.

Anyone else seen this?

Wondering if those mystery switches can fix this and give it a longer power up time?

Only other big problem is I upconvert my dvd player with the box, and had to put a macrovision remover between the player and the tuner, so I could watch dvd's! Otherwise I just get a message on the screen that my source is not allowed out the RGB output!

Originally posted by jhe
I just got a box and immediately swapped the drive out for the Maxtor.
Worked great except for the channel mapping issue others have reported, that is until I got about 25 to 30 items recorded!

Now it takes just a bit long to spin up and get ready and read all the directory entries, so recording fails, unless I just leave the box on all the time.

Anyone else seen this?


True, it takes the 3410A a long time (15-20 seconds?) to initialize the Maxtor 300GB QV drive when it is almost full and has nearly 40 hours of HD on it. But this has never caused a timer recording to fail for me.

My first unit did have quite a few timer failures, but it had the stock HDD and lots of other problems.

Phil:

What other problems? I just ordered one of these units for use with my JVC DVHS. What should I be looking for as far as firmware and other issues.

Murray,

I use the RGBHV output and live with the brightness level shifts. I bought the $300.00+ RGB to RGBHV Transcoder to use the Y, Pr, Pb output but it also caused the same brightness level shift in my DWIN HD700 CRT FP. The designer of the transcoder claimed that he had implemented black clamping but i did not fix my problem. Beun, a member of the Transcoder forum is working on a new more sophisticated transcoder. We'll see!!!! In any case, it is such a wonderful piece of gear that I can live with the anomaly for now.

Greetings All:

Unfortunately I don't have one of the LG-3410a units but hopefully someone who has can answer my question. After successfully recording a hi-def show, when playing back the show and outputting it by S-Video, does it still show up in Widescreen mode.
My reason for this is to have downconverted material inputed to a DVD recorder so that it would be recorded in widescreen mode. I have tried this when playing back hi-def material from a JVC 40K but it does not come out in widescreen mode when you select to convert the material to 480i. Thanks in advance.

The 3410 allows you to select how you wish to display widescreen material in 480i. You can choose a variety of formats, one of which yields a letterboxed widescreen picture. So the answer to your question is: It will record in whatever format the broadcaster sends it out in but playback at 480i the way you want it.

The one I got has ver 1.15 firmware and a 451 serial number. Not sure if it could be a refurb with that serial number or not?

John

Originally posted by MrHifi
I'll bet those $549.00 units were refurbs.

I've gotten a couple of PMs on the 3410 mentioned below. I have not bought this unit yet as I bought one in Stockton. The unit has been shipped to a Bay Area BB with my name on it. If someone is interested in it they would just have to go to the store, pay for it and pick it up. Ie. I'm not selling it or shipping it somewhere. So if you are interested I would just need your name so I can call BB and tell them to take my name off and that you would be picking it up. The unit is an open box unit and I don't know what FW is on it. Also it looks like BB website raised the price, but I think you can still get this unit for the old price and maybe less since it was open box.

John

Originally posted by jcg
[PS: Since I don't need 2 3410s if anyone is interested in the one being shipped down from Chico let me know. I bought a 3410 when they first came out and had all the problems posted on this thread (and returned it), but since version 1.15 is out I figured I'd give it another try. As long as the one I got from Stockton works I won't need the Chico one. [/B]

Originally posted by mrsixpack
Greetings All:

Unfortunately I don't have one of the LG-3410a units but hopefully someone who has can answer my question. After successfully recording a hi-def show, when playing back the show and outputting it by S-Video, does it still show up in Widescreen mode.
My reason for this is to have downconverted material inputed to a DVD recorder so that it would be recorded in widescreen mode. I have tried this when playing back hi-def material from a JVC 40K but it does not come out in widescreen mode when you select to convert the material to 480i. Thanks in advance.

Your question is a tough one since it depends on your TV as much as the STB. First, s-video by definition does not have a widescreen mode. That doesn't mean you can't fake a widescreen mode, just that there is no such thing as a true 480i widescreen mode through s-video. The only thing coming out of 480i is a 4:3 picture.

In order to get widescreen, the STB must format the 16:9 picture into the 4:3 picture. This results in bars at the top and bottom of the image in a full 4:3 picture. On a 4:3 TV you should get this result.

Now if you display this in "zoom" mode on a widescreen TV, the TV will crop the bottom and top of the picture and if everything is tuned right you'll see the full 16:9 image without any bars. The disadvantage of this is that you'll loose resolution equavalent to the number of lines used by the bars.

This is available on the 40K in 480i mode. Make sure that you set the 40K to display in 480i. Then put your widescreen TV into 4:3 mode. Send out the widescreen image from the 40K over s-video and adjust the screen modes (type of TV picture and aspect ratio) *in the 40K*. As soon as you see a widescreen image with bars on top and bottom, adjust your aspect ratio on the TV so that it zooms in on the actual picture.

Hope that helps.

Originally posted by alk3997
Your question is a tough one since it depends on your TV as much as the STB. First, s-video by definition does not have a widescreen mode. That doesn't mean you can't fake a widescreen mode, just that there is no such thing as a true 480i widescreen mode through s-video. The only thing coming out of 480i is a 4:3 picture.

In order to get widescreen, the STB must format the 16:9 picture into the 4:3 picture. This results in bars at the top and bottom of the image in a full 4:3 picture. On a 4:3 TV you should get this result.

Now if you display this in "zoom" mode on a widescreen TV, the TV will crop the bottom and top of the picture and if everything is tuned right you'll see the full 16:9 image without any bars. The disadvantage of this is that you'll loose resolution equavalent to the number of lines used by the bars.

This is available on the 40K in 480i mode. Make sure that you set the 40K to display in 480i. Then put your widescreen TV into 4:3 mode. Send out the widescreen image from the 40K over s-video and adjust the screen modes (type of TV picture and aspect ratio) *in the 40K*. As soon as you see a widescreen image with bars on top and bottom, adjust your aspect ratio on the TV so that it zooms in on the actual picture.

Hope that helps.

Several of my DVD players and my JVC 30K D-VHS deck support widescreen over S-Video, composite and component 480i.

Originally posted by umr
Several of my DVD players and my JVC 30K D-VHS deck support widescreen over S-Video, composite and component 480i.


Actually they do and the don't. All that means is that it players/deck have the ability to put a widescreen image in a 4:3 picture. Your NTSC TV does the magic. This is true for s-video and composite. Component and digital interfaces are different and have true widescreen mode.

If a new mode for s-video and composite were used, then all of the pre-widescreen TVs with composite and s-video would have a problem. Basically composite and s-video are analog NTSC signals (640x480).

Originally posted by bills2k
Phil:

What other problems? I just ordered one of these units for use with my JVC DVHS. What should I be looking for as far as firmware and other issues.

Firmware 1.15 is preferred, although there are a few people here that have the earlier 1.12 with no problems. Many, many of the earliest units had so many problems that the unit was useless. You can scan through the 80+ pages of this thread to get an idea of what was happening. The problems seemed related to Guide functions, but really no one knows. LG has been mum on the facts. Some people exchanged units multiple times before maybe getting a good one.

The good news is that the major problems seem to have mostly disappeared in the last couple of months. If your Guide data downloads properly every night and the unit does not freeze in the Guide screens or fail to record timer programs, you should be OK. Also watch for Guide resets where you lose all your channel mappings and have to run the setup again.

My guess is a new unit with 1.15 will be OK.

I'm interested in recording to a dvd recorder as well. Is there any kind of "squeeze mode" to use on the 480i output through s-video on the 3410? Won't a squished widescreen picture recorded to 480i through the s-video be able to be played back as an anamorphically enhanced widescreen image through a dvd players component output? I thought I had seen where some STB's will do this.

Thanks for any replies........... still wading through the manual on this thing!

I left my guide alone when the native UHF channels started showing up, and, everything is back to normal now.

Yes, the 3410 has a squeeze mode. I've had great luck making DVDs by capturing squeezed 480i output on a Media Center PC and writing it to DVD with TMPEG DVD Author. Plays back beautifully on my 57" widescreen - quality is on par with the majority of prerecorded DVDs. I'm keeping my eye out to see if Phillips actually releases their DVDR740 with optical digital and component inputs - that should make for even better recordings.

Cheers,

Mike

Originally posted by alk3997
Actually they do and the don't. All that means is that it players/deck have the ability to put a widescreen image in a 4:3 picture. Your NTSC TV does the magic. This is true for s-video and composite. Component and digital interfaces are different and have true widescreen mode.

If a new mode for s-video and composite were used, then all of the pre-widescreen TVs with composite and s-video would have a problem. Basically composite and s-video are analog NTSC signals (640x480).

Actually they are incompatible if you select the wrong screen type. It only works like this when the source is set for a 16:9 display and the display is a 16:9 display. The widescreen mode is not backward compatible.

Finally filled my Maxtor 300 gig disk full and got some measurements as I erased files.

My drive is a regular one not the CE model, so the seek should be faster and noisier, but otherwise I think not much would be different.

My programs were mostly 1 hour in length, and I am not sure how this would affect the numbers. A few were 30 minutes. One was 4 minutes. All recordings were in HD or at least digital upconverts. Some 1080i and a few 720p

Just listening to the Maxtor, it sounds ready after about 7 seconds to start work.

The critical time limit is about 52 seconds. The record mode starts up power 2 minutes early and starts record 1 minute early. But at 1 min and 8 seconds or so early it does the channel change, and the drive must be ready to go at this point.

So The results are I would risk missed recordings after saving about 30-34 programs! From there on to make it work I must turn it off at night to get the guide, and leave it on the rest of the time so it can record without any power up delay.

Here are some raw numbers I got as I erased files:

programs saved time to get ready
48 71 seconds
39 58
30 45
24 36
17 29
13 25

Note it is very easy to see how long it takes to get ready: Just power up with a stop watch and time it till the disk full graph appears on the front panel.

My max times by the displayed program time added up to max of 43 hours. As others have noted there was a bit of space for time shifting reserved.

I also lost one program that was listed as 1 hour, but message said it could not play due to a bad block.

If you try to record normally and the drive gets ready too slow it makes a 0 length recording for you in the program list, and when you click on it it says there was a disk drive problem.
If you happen to be around to watch the power up record sequence you will see an on screen message about the drive problem as it fails.

I can see only a few possible fixes for this:

A get LG to allow bigger drives and let us select a 3 minute early power up time, instead of 2 minutes.
B try a faster disk drive, to move out the fail point. During the init the drive is doing a lot of seeking, so a faster seek could help.

jhe,

Very good information. Thanks.

Originally posted by jhe
I can see only a few possible fixes for this:

A get LG to allow bigger drives and let us select a 3 minute early power up time, instead of 2 minutes.
B try a faster disk drive, to move out the fail point. During the init the drive is doing a lot of seeking, so a faster seek could help. Or, just leave the LG powered on when it is scheduled to record.

The problem with leaving it on is that the hard drive is spinning constantly when it is on. I am sure it will not have any kind of useful life if the disk(s) are spinning constantly.

From this very worthwhile discussion it seems that using larger drives than the 120GB is not an acceptable alternative. Is this correct? Also, in my newest unit, I have not had any temperature related droput or failure events. Can we surmise that some kind of modification occurred at LGE to resolve the thermal runaway issue?

My generic Maxtor 300GB upgrade has not caused me any lost recordings or problems whatsoever.

Ditto for me, my unit has also worked flawlessly w/ Maxtor 300GB drive.

Quite the opposite Mr. HiFi; and good data, jhe.

First, this proves that the unit/drive can catalog and handle a large number of HOURS. Second, I think it's unlikely (or unreasonable) that anyone would have close to 50 programs stored on a hard-drive; forgetting about the sheer quantity of material, an average of 1 hour per program is reasonable, which would allow for a max of 30-35 programs on a 300 Gbyte drive (in fact, there isn't any HD programs I currently record that are less than 1 hour--in other words, no comedies).

I haven't had any urgent need to upgrade my 120 Gig HD yet (I don't save weekly TV after watching it), but based on this data I don't think I would have any problem going with a 300 Gbyte version (but stick with 5200 RPM) based on my viewing habits.

Interesting that the Maxtors work great for others???
Are the rest of you just not using the full capacity perhaps? Recording longer shows than 1 hour? I don't know yet if the time to get ready depends on hours total, or number of directory entries mostly.

I am still happy with my swap, since I can safely go up to 30 hours or so without any problems. If I go more, I have to remember to leave the box on for day and evening recordings, and then shut off at night for the guide data to download. This prevents just leaving it turned on.

Normally the 30 hours would be fine for me, but I might want to use all capacity if I went away for a week or two for example, and it would then fail for me, well before it was full. I would still be getting over double what the stock drive provides though.

jhe -
It would seem to me that the problem is the number of directory entries on the hard drive. And I wonder if there is ever any defragging going on.

1 hour of HD = 7.5 - 8 GB. Assume that you only get 270 GB out of 300 after formatting, that means that you can get 35 one hour HD programs on the 300 GB drive. The problem with this calculation is the SD shows need about 2.75 GB an hour, so you could easily get over 50 one hour SD programs on the disk.

I think this means that you should be able to record all of the HD material that will fit on the HD, if you stick to 1 hour or greater shows. Just be careful when recording SD material - it takes a lot more of it to fill the disk.

Now the programs that hog my hard drive are all the football games on Saturday and Sunday. I record 4 games a week-end at 3.5-4 hours each. - basically filling my disk.

I think Hyrax is right. My disk was nearly full (39 hours, about 32-33 programs) with HD ONLY, no SD. I did not think to time the disk initialization, but I don't think it was more than 20 seconds.

The number of programs may have more effect than the HDD space used.

Anyway, how can you guys stand to record/watch SD material?!? :D

Judy Y -
When you select video out, the 3410A automatically selects 480i. When receiving HD material, you're given two options (among others) for the output ratio: Cropped or Squeezed.

The ratio 'Cropped' cuts off parts of the left and right edges so the remaining portion of the image completely fills a 4:3 screen. I find this useful when watching and/or taping SD material on my VCR because it cuts off the gray filler material that some stations add to the sides of SD material.

The ratio 'Squeezed' compresses the widescreen, 16:9, image horizontally to fit a 4:3 screen. This is perfect for making recordings of widescreen HD material. I find that I do get jaggies when I record then to my VCR and then expand them to my 50" TV. I only tried this once and I recorder a football game in EP mode on a S-VHS VCR. It looked good, but not great. However, the football game looked much, much better when I took the same show and recorded it to a computer and then burnt it to a DVD. It definitely was no longer HD material, but it approaches commercial DVD quality.

The long and the short of it is that you should be able to connect DVD recorder to the 3410A via an S-Video cable and make anamorphic like recordings with very good picture quality that may even be better than if you were recording them directly off an analog source.

The main downside is that you'll lose any DD 5.1 audio that was in the broadcast. I like DD 5.1 audio, so I decided to get a D-VHS deck.

It is possible that you could use firewire to connect the 3410A to a computer, dump a show to the computer using the 3410A's, convert the show to a MPEG file, and then burn a DVD that retains the DD 5.1 audio. Unfortunately, you need to install drivers and play games with your computer to get this to work. I plan on trying this one day this winter when I get snowed in and have nothing to do.

Phil -
Please talk PBS into broadcasting Mystery! and Masterpiece theater in HD. And the American Experience and Ken Burns' documentaries. Then I can kiss SD good-bye forever. Glorious day!

Tim

Looks like BB is done with the 3410. When you bring up the link posted above you get a We're Sorry. The page you requested can't be accessed right now, or it not longer exists.

Troy

Hyrax,

I have the 3410 hooked up to my PC via firewire, and have had some success capturing live HDTV to the PC. There is a thread in the HD recorder section of AVS forum on 1394 capture to Win XP PCs - the necessary software links and instructions can be found there. I have had a couple of successful recordings, but have also had a few failed recordings. I have not yet tried downconverting a 1394 HD recording to MPEG2.

One limitation is that the method described there only allows you to capture real-time material - there is no way to access the recorded programs on the 3410's hard disk. If you try playing the recorded program and capturing it, you get whatever program is being broadcast by the currently tuned channel.

There is a program that purports to be a DVHS deck emulator for the PC, but forum discussions indicate that few people have had good results using it with other HD sources (didn't see anyone who had tried it with the 3410).

Other than not getting the 5.1 audio track, I have been quite pleased with the DVDs I've made by capturing the squeezed 480i output and analog audio and writing them to DVD.

Cheers,

Mike

I have successfully used the Vividlogic Firebus DTV Recorder demo software to move files from a PC to the 3410, but I have not played extensively with extraction of video from the 3410 to the PC (either live or recorded).

I think it's worth a try, but be careful, because the software nags you on boot up until you either buy it or uninstall it; and if you uninstall it, it still seems to leave too many remnant files and registry entries around for my liking.

Anyone that has a 3410 done a comparison of the its sensitivity compared to other HD receivers? I just got the 3410 and have it connected to a CM4228 antenna / CM 7777 preamp. The 3410 picture is breaking up on some channels, but when I switch to the 451 I don't get any breakups.

I wondering if the 3410 is known for not having great sensistivity? Or is the 451 supposed to be really good? Or maybe I have a subpar 3410 and should exchange it?


John

I have a question on getting the quide data. I've tried for the last 2 nights to get the quide data but it's not working. I have the zip code set correctly, and I'm turning the unit off at night. Is there something I'm missing?

When I did the ez-scan I skipped the regular UHF channels and only scanned the HD channels. Do I need the regular UHF stuff to get the guide data to work, or is there something else I may be doing wrong?

John

Originally posted by stjr
I have successfully used the Vividlogic Firebus DTV Recorder demo software to move files from a PC to the 3410, but I have not played extensively with extraction of video from the 3410 to the PC (either live or recorded).

Steve

Did you play the PC files from the 3410 as if they were a D-VHS tape, or, did you move/copy the PC files to the 3410's hard drive?

Both.

Originally posted by stjr
Both.

I may have to buy that FireBus dealio.

jcg,
Try not using your preamp and see if that helps. Sometimes the signal is too strong and that's a bad thing.

Dave

jcg,
The guide arrives on the analog stations. Mine appears to come from the local PBS channel, and I pick it up via cable.

Not that it means much, but the guy who installed my antenna said that the 3410A was picking up more stations from further away than any other reciever he'd setup. Some of the stations I get are in Maine and broadcast from 60+ miles away (but many of those miles are across the ocean).

Tim

Mkellyvich,
Your experiences with squeezed 480i output are much the same as mine. The Firebus is worth checking out (probably on a PC that you don't mind if their firewire drivers causes problems with other firewire devices), but I've had rather spectacular results without the bother of Firebus or of the other method.

Originally posted by Hyrax
I've had rather spectacular results without the bother of Firebus or of the other method.

What results are you referring to?

Well, my experiment with the 3410 is coming to an end. While it has mostly worked fine, there's enough annoyances with it that I'm taking it back to BB on Monday. The DVI output doesn't work correctly with my Toshiba TV, flashing DVI Blocked frequently. (Tested the 3410 on a friends Sony TV, worked fine there.) Not having a 30-sec skip/replay function is annoying too.

If I didn't already have a MyHD in a PC, I'd probably live with the flaws, but I can wait till the next gen HD DVR models come out. So, this one goes back to the Irvine Best Buy on Mon. It's a 451-X serial model, with 1.15 firmware, in case anyone local to the Irvine area wants it. The Irvine store never sold these, so I don't know what they'll do with it. (I got it at Costa Mesa)

Originally posted by Markz2k
Well, my experiment with the 3410 is coming to an end. While it has mostly worked fine, there's enough annoyances with it that I'm taking it back to BB on Monday. The DVI output doesn't work correctly with my Toshiba TV, flashing DVI Blocked frequently. (Tested the 3410 on a friends Sony TV, worked fine there.)


Mark

Try turning on your Toshiba first, selecting the DVI input and only then turn on the 3410 last.

Originally posted by mkerdman
Mark

Try turning on your Toshiba first, selecting the DVI input and only then turn on the 3410 last.

Thanks for the tip, but I've already tried that sequence, and many others. Just another way that copy-protection punishes the honest. My Toshiba does support HDCP, but there's some weird interaction between it and the 3410A.

I look forward to trying Sony's HD DVR when it shows up. Meanwhile, I'm back to recording only one HD show at a time. :)

It's not the preamp is the stations I'm getting are about 50 miles away so I need the preamp. The signal meter shows the signal to be in the low normal range on the channel that breaks up the most. The Toshiba shows the signal to be stronger, but that's relative as it's 2 different manufactures and the way they implement the signal strength meter will be different.

Anyone else compared the 3410 to other receivers?

John


Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
jcg,
Try not using your preamp and see if that helps. Sometimes the signal is too strong and that's a bad thing.

Dave

OK, I'll redo the Ezscan and keep all the analog channels and see if the guide comes in tonight. If it does is there a way to figure out which analog channel is supplying the guide? I really just want the HD channels on the 3410 so I want to delete everything else (except for the analog channel that supplies the guide). Thanks.

John

Originally posted by Hyrax
jcg,
The guide arrives on the analog stations. Mine appears to come from the local PBS channel, and I pick it up via cable.

Not that it means much, but the guy who installed my antenna said that the 3410A was picking up more stations from further away than any other reciever he'd setup. Some of the stations I get are in Maine and broadcast from 60+ miles away (but many of those miles are across the ocean).

Tim

Hi, John. I, too, am in the SF Bay Area. Yeah, I wish I knew which analog station broadcasts the Guide, but in any case, I get the Guide each and every night without problems. I let the EZ-scan scan for all my stations, and then I go in manually to edit those that it missed. As a comparison, the following stations are what I have available:

Analog: 2,4,5,7,8,9,11,14,20,22,26,32,36,38,44,48,54,65
Digital: 5,7,9,11,14,26,33,34,39,43,45,48,50,52,56,57,63,65

As far as how sensitive the LST-3410a tuner in comparison to others, I have a Fusion 3 Gold card, and compared to the Fusion, I believe the 3410a is MORE sensitive than the Fusion. For example, I have frequent breakups with UPN channel 45 with the Fusion, but I have it solid with the 3410a. I get my HDTV fix via OTA, so both tuners are off the same antenna. With my Fusion card, I discovered that that tuner is very sensitive, so sensitive in fact that I had to place a variable attenuator from Radio Shack to receive all the stations reliably; without the attenuator, local stations would overload the tuner, thus causing my tuner to not receive the signal. Could this be causing your problem as well?

Good luck in your quest to find the answer.

jcg,
I would try without amplification. I am about 40 miles from Walnut Grove and I thought a preamp would help me. I went from 80% signals down to about 15% with the preamp. I was sending TOO MUCH signal to the 3410a...I now get much better reception by using a compass to point my antenna to 95 degrees (it was at 90), and I get over 90% on all of the HD stations out of Sacramento.

Dave

Thanks for the info on recording to dvd. That was just what I was looking for. I have a D-vhs player too that I will play with and see how convenient it is to archive to tape.

mkerdman
By 'Spectacular Results' I meant the results I get from connecting the 3410A to my computer via S-Video, setting the 3410A's output ratio to squeezed, and recording to my computer's hard disk. What ends up on my computer looks great.

Tim

I tried your suggestion about removing the preamp yesterday and without the preamp I can't even pick up the Sacramento stations (any of them). The 3410 shows the signal strength as barely registering in the bad area with no preamp. I also got up on the roof and tried moving the antenna, but couldn't get the signal any stronger.

So I changed the antenna towards SF and redid the ezscan and get much better signal strength that way. All the major networks have signals in the good area, and no pixelization on any channels. The only down side is I don't get NBC anymore (that's the only reason I was pointing towards Sac in the first place), but NBC doesn't have any shows in HD that I watch so it's not a big deal.

John

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
jcg,
I would try without amplification. I am about 40 miles from Walnut Grove and I thought a preamp would help me. I went from 80% signals down to about 15% with the preamp. I was sending TOO MUCH signal to the 3410a...I now get much better reception by using a compass to point my antenna to 95 degrees (it was at 90), and I get over 90% on all of the HD stations out of Sacramento.

Dave

I changed my antenna to point towards San Francisco and redid the ezscan (including all the non HD channels), turned off the unit last night but I still don't get any guide data. When I hit the TV guide button on the remote it says "The search for data has failed". Any ideas why this isn't working or other ideas to try to fix it?

John

Originally posted by jcg
OK, I'll redo the Ezscan and keep all the analog channels and see if the guide comes in tonight. If it does is there a way to figure out which analog channel is supplying the guide? I really just want the HD channels on the 3410 so I want to delete everything else (except for the analog channel that supplies the guide). Thanks.

John

Originally posted by jcg
Anyone that has a 3410 done a comparison of the its sensitivity compared to other HD receivers?
.....................................................

John

I have found the 3410A tuner to be as good as my other tuners. My previous best was a tie between the Samsung 165 and the Zenith 420.

Some multipath conditions vary from day to day on my distant channels, so the best tuner on one day is not necessarily the best on every day. But overall sensitivity is best on the LG and Zenith. Samsung handles some kinds of multipath better. All three are way better than my old Panasonic or DTC 100 RCA tuners.

I still need a good tuner! Hope next year they will really work with the 5th gen chips! None of mine can tune every channel from the Needham MA towers, without moving my antenna. I have to tweak my rotor even for channels 30 and 20 which are on the same tower!

This hassle and the lack of better dynamic multipath handling on all of them for distant stations, are my primary problems with all of these, not sensitivity.

I am in the Boston area, and get guide data from a digital channel.
(I have all analog ones turned off at least) I am sure this varies with location, explaining why many people do need the analog ones turned on.

I still don't know which channel to aim for and have been unable to find out!

Called LG and they said contact gemstar!

Wrote to gemstar and so far no answer. I did a google search and found the following with some networks listed that carry the guide data:

"Data Distribution Infrastructure. Our national network supplies listings data to our products via broadcast TV signals, satellite, and the Internet in all 211 U.S. Designated Media Markets, as defined by Nielsen Media Research ("Nielsen"). We use the VBI, or vertical blanking interval, in the analog television signals of the local affiliates of major broadcast networks such as PBS (through National Datacast), ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox and national cable stations to supply program listing information to our consumer electronics products in the U.S. We also use a variety of satellite, terrestrial digital and broadband Internet to deliver listings data to our CE IPGs internationally."

So remaining questions are:

1 Which of the networks carry the guide data and on which channels for a given area? (ie pbs WGBH or WGBX in Boston market?)

2 Which channel does the LG use?

It might use the one it is tuned to first? Then scroll up or down?
It could try all and find the best signal and use that one?

It could scan and try to use the first one it comes to even if signal was marginal?

In my location with reception so flaky on any channel I don't aim for, it would be nice to know and control this a bit!

I've watched my first two recordings with the 3410 and am quite impressed. Maybe I have just been willing to accept glitches for a better picture and sound with HDTV but this is the first time I have EVER watched more than an hour of programming OTA without some kind of drop out.

I have mostly watched from my Dishnet model 6000 with the OTA tuner module- rarely with the samsung sir-T165 BUT have recorded from the samsung and never NEVER had a glitch-free recording. There was always a drop out somewhere. (Nope, not sure if the drop outs are from the JVC 30k or the samsung but all pre-recorded d-vhs is beautiful!)

I hope this thing dumps to D-VHS as well as it records from the hard drive. So far, I am very happy with my purchase.

Bestbuy.com has removed the LST-3410A from their listings, so I don't think we can look for any further price reductions. Mine has lived up to expectations for the 4 weeks I've had it. Got a price match to $550 and am supposed to receive the coupon book for 4 free DVDs that BB was offering a month ago.

I was in my local BB yesterday and they had one open box LST-3410A. It was in the original box by had been resealed with some "Inspected by BB"
tape on it. It had a green sticker and the S/N started with 351xxxx.
I assume by what was posted here it is an older firmware? I didn't buy it but was sure tempted. I didn't find out the price because I couldn't get any help from anybody and had to leave to make an appointment.

I might try and run back over tomorrow at lunch to try and find out more.

Jim

motoman,
Hard to find Help at BB? I've never heard of that happening to anyone!!!

haha...Dave

Originally posted by Dave Vaughn
motoman,
Hard to find Help at BB? I've never heard of that happening to anyone!!!

haha...Dave

:D :D :D :D

jhe -
I'm in the Boston area as well and am trying to figure out which digital stations feed the guide data. Which channels to you have active in your guide? Do you have any analog stations enabled? I would like to get rid of my analog stations, but everytime I do, I lose guide data.

I will try calling the local stations next week and see if they know who is broadcasting the guide. If they don't know, who would?

Try the Contact Us link at http://www.vgi.com, the engineering headquarters of Gemstar TV Guide OnScreen.

Originally posted by Hyrax
jhe -
I'm in the Boston area as well and am trying to figure out which digital stations feed the guide data. Which channels to you have active in your guide? Do you have any analog stations enabled? I would like to get rid of my analog stations, but everytime I do, I lose guide data.

I will try calling the local stations next week and see if they know who is broadcasting the guide. If they don't know, who would?

I currently have all digitals enabled, including the ones I don't get yet like 54. All analog are turned off. I don't seem to have a full 8 days of data though. More like 3.

When the unit is off I do see the "guide" sign lit, sometimes in the AM as well as during the night. I think this means data is down-loading from somewhere. I may try swiching off all except one channel when I see this indicator and maybe find it that way.

My best guess would be that channel 19 has the guide in digital.

Has anyone else experienced this problem:

I have many programs set to record with record regularly, i go out and check the scheduled recordings and programs just seem to disappear from the schedule, there does not seem to be a pattern to the madness, previously had them set to record weekly and experienced the same issue. You can have something set to record and check early in the day and go back to check 5 min before it should start and and it may be gone. This is a real pain. Anybody else experience this? I have 1.15.

Originally posted by j.oliver
Has anyone else experienced this problem:

I have many programs set to record with record regularly, i go out and check the scheduled recordings and programs just seem to disappear from the schedule, there does not seem to be a pattern to the madness, previously had them set to record weekly and experienced the same issue. You can have something set to record and check early in the day and go back to check 5 min before it should start and and it may be gone. This is a real pain. Anybody else experience this? I have 1.15.

The short answer is: yes (I have SW 1.12). The long answer is: it doesn't happen very often, and I really think it has to do with "bad" guide data. I think that whenever/however a show is omitted/substituted (right or wrong) in a guide download, it is "lost" forwever (or until you manually re-select it). I just don't think the guide is smart enough to go back and check something after it's been set (like a pre-empted show); after all, it IS free. I notice this only happens with weekly/regular recordings when there's things like debates, or playoff games, or when the TV season is just getting started.

The bottom line is: as long as you see your GUIDE light on every morning (and it does go off once in a while--like in the evening), you should be OK. If something is REALLY critical to record, you can always check your list that day; I've never seen it miss a show within a day of having it on the record list.

My best guess would be that channel 19 has the guide in digital.

I deleted all of my analog except for WLVI (the digital signal is weak at times), and could not get the guide even though I had DTV channel 19 (WGBH) in the guide. My thinking then was that if you have any analog stations it tries to get the guide from 2-0, otherwise it tries to get it form 2-1 (AKA DTV 19).

However, I then deleted all analog stations except 2-0 and WLVI from my guide and no data was downloaded. So I gave up guessing and have all of the local analog stations (2,4,5,7) enabled as well as all of the DTV stations.

That is what I had to do and I also had to place an attenuator in the RF line in order to decrease the VHF signal and make it barely viewable.

Someone mentioned a BB closeout price of $499 on another thread.
Can anyone confirm this? I think today is my 30th day since purchase, and I guess my last chance for a price match.

Originally posted by UncD2000
Someone mentioned a BB closeout price of $499 on another thread.
Can anyone confirm this? I think today is my 30th day since purchase, and I guess my last chance for a price match.

Which other thread?

Originally posted by mkerdman
Which other thread?

LINKY (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=4531452#post4531452)

Originally posted by jhe
I have found the 3410A tuner to be as good as my other tuners. My previous best was a tie between the Samsung 165 and the Zenith 420.

Some multipath conditions vary from day to day on my distant channels, so the best tuner on one day is not necessarily the best on every day. But overall sensitivity is best on the LG and Zenith. Samsung handles some kinds of multipath better. I agree.

I had an SIR-T165 and it picked up my local OTA HD stations with no issues, but when I installed the 3410a I kept losing my local CBS station at night. I finally had to tweak my antenna slightly and haven't had any issues since.

So has anyone actually gotten ahold of Gemstar? I'm still working on getting the guide to work with just an OTA antenna in the Bay Area (CA). Anyone in this area using just OTA and have the guide working? I called LG support a few days ago and they sent the request to Gemstar who was supposed to call within 48 hrs, but never got the call.

John

Originally posted by Mark Fontana
Try the Contact Us link at http://www.vgi.com, the engineering headquarters of Gemstar TV Guide OnScreen.

jcg -
Perhaps you could call your local stations and ask them if they know. Start with PBS. I believe others said ABC might also transmit it.

Originally posted by UncD2000
Someone mentioned a BB closeout price of $499 on another thread.
Can anyone confirm this? I think today is my 30th day since purchase, and I guess my last chance for a price match.

I purchase one from Best Buy in Mission Valley San Diego on 10/9 for $549.00 last one they had in a box. At that time the web site listed them for $549. Soon after the web listing for the 3410A was removed. I just called Best Buy and the salesperson I talked to looked up the price on the computer and could not verify a price lower than $549. He did say that local BB store managers can discount a close out item below the listed sales price to move a unit out of the store. But, that would not show up on their computers. So, if someone did get the $499 price it may have been a local discount by the manager and to get a price match you need a copy of the sales receipt. The only caveat here is, I have found that the Best Buy Sales help is great at giving out incorrect information.

Originally posted by jcg
So has anyone actually gotten ahold of Gemstar? I'm still working on getting the guide to work with just an OTA antenna in the Bay Area (CA). Anyone in this area using just OTA and have the guide working? I called LG support a few days ago and they sent the request to Gemstar who was supposed to call within 48 hrs, but never got the call.

John

Mine works with just OTA. I found I had the best luck when I did not delete any channels from the guide. I just reordered it to put the ones I use at the top of the list.

Originally posted by umr
Mine works with just OTA. I found I had the best luck when I did not delete any channels from the guide. I just reordered it to put the ones I use at the top of the list.

I have to second this. When I first got mine (1.15) I deleted all of the analog channels, as I have 3 replay tv's and I only wanted this for recording hd. However, I wasn't getting the guide, so I called lg customer unsupport, and of course they had no clue, tried various things, and finally told me to return it/exchange it!

Well, I figured maybe I needed the analog channels for the guide, so I let them back in, and then just set the SURF button for the high def channels. I can only go up, not down, but oh well.

Oh, and I also only set recordings manually. Between missing a recording once and what I read on this oh-so-long thread, I decided not to use the guide to set recordings. The nice thing is, though, if the guide is there, then it still names the recording with the name of the show in the program list! That's handy. It even works correctly when I pad the recording to start early and end late, but that may be because I set the manual recording for the exact time, and then press SELECT to set the number of minutes to start early and end late.

Oh, and I never hooked up the cable to it, I'm curious if I can get any cable high def channels (comcast in michigan), but I read of people in this thread having issues with cable connected and decided not to tempt fate...

I haven't deleted any of the channels on mine. I actually scrolled through all the channels that are greyed out and anyone that even remotely looked like it was picking something up I turned the channel on (even though ez scan had it off). Still no guide, so I called LG again today who sent an email to Gemstar, and said they would get back to me but couldn't say when.

At this point I'm just using the VCR+ button and manually seting up everything I want to record (or using timeshift when I'm home) so it's not really impacting me using the 3410, but I would like to figure out what's wrong at some point.

John

Originally posted by umr
Mine works with just OTA. I found I had the best luck when I did not delete any channels from the guide. I just reordered it to put the ones I use at the top of the list.

I've been using the guide to program recording for months. Except for my errors, it records perfectly.

Originally posted by MrHifi
I've been using the guide to program recording for months. Except for my errors, it records perfectly.

At least as big of a problem is finding anything worth recording.

I personally only record about 3.5 hours per week and delete each show after I watch them. I don't think I'll ever come close to filling up my HD unless I start recording Kings Basketball games!

Dave

I got the 3410a a couple of weeks ago from BB, and have been loving it since. Yesterday I noticed a quirk, and I wondered whether anyone here on this thread have noticed this one before. Last night after viewing a program that I had recorded earlier, I turned off the 3410a. The time showing on the unit was behind by one hour. I didn't want to start up the unit just to correct the time, so I decided to wait until I turn on the unit again since didn't have anything scheduled to be recorded. This morning, the correct time shows up. This leads me to believe that the unit is picking up the time from the Guide(?), and that overnight the station sending the Guide corrected the time(?). If I'm correct, then this could happen again in the future, and thus throw off any of my scheduled recordings.

Since the Guide had been a source of many of the problems for this unit in the past, my question to you all is this: can I disable the Guide completely since I don't depend on it at all (I manually schedule all my recordings)? BTW, I'm on SW 1.15. Thanks in advance for your advice.

This exact same thing happened to my 3410 last night, and I'm also in the SF bay area. Odd. Do you have your 3410 hooked up to cable or just OTA? I'm wondering as I can't get the guide data via OTA only (see some of my earlier posts), but hooked it up to cable and OTA yesterday and now I can get the guide (but it still has no data for the OTA digital channels).

John

Originally posted by micmel2
I got the 3410a a couple of weeks ago from BB, and have been loving it since. Yesterday I noticed a quirk, and I wondered whether anyone here on this thread have noticed this one before. Last night after viewing a program that I had recorded earlier, I turned off the 3410a. The time showing on the unit was behind by one hour. I didn't want to start up the unit just to correct the time, so I decided to wait until I turn on the unit again since didn't have anything scheduled to be recorded. This morning, the correct time shows up. This leads me to believe that the unit is picking up the time from the Guide(?), and that overnight the station sending the Guide corrected the time(?). If I'm correct, then this could happen again in the future, and thus throw off any of my scheduled recordings.

Since the Guide had been a source of many of the problems for this unit in the past, my question to you all is this: can I disable the Guide completely since I don't depend on it at all (I manually schedule all my recordings)? BTW, I'm on SW 1.15. Thanks in advance for your advice.

I get my HD via OTA only. I don't have any trouble getting the Guide, but since I don't use it, why have it? I'm just worried that this may be a source of a potential problem in the future, thus that is why I want to be able to disable this "feature".

Do you point your antenna at San Jose or San Francisco/Sutro tower to get HD? I'm pointing at SF, and am still trying to debug why I'm not getting the guide.

As for actually not wanting to get it you could try going into the channel editor and deleting all the non HD channels (ie. under the TV listing and just keep the ones under DTV). Or I think if you rerun ezscan and hit select right off the bat it bypasses the local channel search and just looks for DTV channels. I haven't found anyone around that actually knows which channel is the one that broadcasts the guide, so if this worked it would at least tell us that it is one of the analog stations.

John

Originally posted by micmel2
I get my HD via OTA only. I don't have any trouble getting the Guide, but since I don't use it, why have it? I'm just worried that this may be a source of a potential problem in the future, thus that is why I want to be able to disable this "feature".

FWIW, last night at about 1130 I noticed my 3410's time display was an hour behind, so the problem was not contained to the SF area (I'm in San Antonio). Regarding all the discussion about analog vs digital channels to get the guide data, I have scanned both analog and digital channels, deleted all the analog channels and several of the spanish-only digital channels, and still receive the guide data just fine. Over the last month I've only had one instance of failed recording - I have three shows scheduled to record regularly each week (these are scheduled through the guide only, not timer recordings).

Cheers,

Mike

regarding the quide data since you are in San Antonio maybe the guide data is transfered on one of the digital channels that you still have as enabled. It's possible in SF that the data is on a digital channel that I'm not getting. We just need to debug a bit more to do figure out the channel it's being sent on.

John

Originally posted by Mkellyvich
FWIW, last night at about 1130 I noticed my 3410's time display was an hour behind, so the problem was not contained to the SF area (I'm in San Antonio). Regarding all the discussion about analog vs digital channels to get the guide data, I have scanned both analog and digital channels, deleted all the analog channels and several of the spanish-only digital channels, and still receive the guide data just fine. Over the last month I've only had one instance of failed recording - I have three shows scheduled to record regularly each week (these are scheduled through the guide only, not timer recordings).

Cheers,

Mike

I'm pointing at San Francisco/Sutro Tower to get my HD, although I receive the San Jose stations just fine as well. I haven't tried this, but what will happen if I were to put back the demo pin in the back? Would it suppress the downloading of the Guide, AND more importantly allow me to record manually? Does anybody know before I try it?

It's an easy test to try but I don't think the unit operates in normal mode with the demo pin in. Did you try the experiment of deleting analog channels to see if that stops the guide? Or maybe you are getting the guide from the San Jose stations since I don't get those and am still not getting the guide data.

John

Originally posted by micmel2
I'm pointing at San Francisco/Sutro Tower to get my HD, although I receive the San Jose stations just fine as well. I haven't tried this, but what will happen if I were to put back the demo pin in the back? Would it suppress the downloading of the Guide, AND more importantly allow me to record manually? Does anybody know before I try it?

Originally posted by micmel2
Would it suppress the downloading of the Guide, AND more importantly allow me to record manually? Does anybody know before I try it?


I believe it wipes out the user memory of the box and resets it to the factory settings. Obviously the flash ROM is not touched. I forget if the hard drive is wiped.

Thought I'd pass along something that happened last week with the LG-3410a. On Thursday evening during the NLCS we had a big power outage (so did the Astros). The power outage was long enough that it used up the time on the LG3410a's UPS.

After the power was restored, I power-up the LG-3410a and everything seemed fine except the clock was not set properly. I checked the Guide and everything looked fine. By morning the clock had been updated by the Guide data. So far, so good...

However, the next day when I turned the LG-3410a back on, the "Reserved" indicator disappeared and there was no Guide data and none of my Reserved programs showed an available program to record. When I turned the LG-3410a back off, the "Reserved" indicator was not displayed and only the timer clock symbol was on (along with the current time).

So, I immediately unplugged the LG-3410a and waited five minutes. When I plugged it back into the wall and powered-on, the Guide data for all seven days magically reappeared. The reserved indicator came back on and the reserved programs were showing times to record.

All I can guess is that the firmware hit a loop of some type and wasn't responding properly. Unplugging the unit reset the firmware and therefore the problem went away. BTW, this is with firmware 1.15.

Just thought I'd pass that along for anyone else in the same situation. Unplug the LG-3410a and wait five minutes. It seems to solve some issues.

The demo pin seems to clear the clock and do who knows what internally. It does not seem to wipe out any user data except the stations to exclude from the guide and (if my memory is correct) shows you've got scheduled to record.

I have used the demo pin several times to reset my system when it seems confused and I've had problems getting guide data.

I do not believe you can operate the 3410A normally with the demo pin in place. I also think the 3410A was designed to always down load the guide, and you will not be able to suppress this function. I do not think downloading the guide actually causes any problems. The few problems using the guide are the result, I have come to believe, of bugs in GemStar's implementation of the delivering the data. The 3410A appears to me to be doing the best it can with flacky data.

Just a quick update on this. As you can tell from my later posts I've been having trouble getting the guide to download, and in an attempt to rule out a faulty 3410 I went and purchased the 2nd 3410 when it showed up from Chico. Turns out it's not the 3410 since both units work the same. The 2nd unit is a June build date and has FW ver 1.15. I don't need both units so will be returning one to the Dublin (near 580/680) BB (SF Bay Area) so if anyone is still looking for one then I can let you know once the unit is there. Then you can just purchase it as an open box unit and get it for $549+tax (which is what I paid) or maybe they will reduce the price some.

So far both units have worked perfectly (except for the guide) and I really like the 3410. It's awesome being able to record HD!

John

Originally posted by jcg
I've gotten a couple of PMs on the 3410 mentioned below. I have not bought this unit yet as I bought one in Stockton. The unit has been shipped to a Bay Area BB with my name on it. If someone is interested in it they would just have to go to the store, pay for it and pick it up. Ie. I'm not selling it or shipping it somewhere. So if you are interested I would just need your name so I can call BB and tell them to take my name off and that you would be picking it up. The unit is an open box unit and I don't know what FW is on it. Also it looks like BB website raised the price, but I think you can still get this unit for the old price and maybe less since it was open box.

John

Originally posted by jcg
I don't need both units so will be returning one to the Dublin (near 580/680) BB (SF Bay Area) so if anyone is still looking for one then I can let you know once the unit is there. Then you can just purchase it as an open box unit and get it for $549+tax (which is what I paid) or maybe they will reduce the price some.

John

John

I have never found the LST-3410A available at BB online or in the Tucson area stores. How did you get the units you purchased?

Bob

They were never available online, but the website showed them and said to check with your local store. Now they aren't even on the website as I think BB has moved most of them on their closeout special. I just called all the local BB and if they didn't have it asked them to check other stores and finally found the one in Chico. Also someone posted a few pages back that there were some at the Stockton store so I drove the hour to Stockton to pick it up. Good luck.

John

Originally posted by RJRSW
John

I have never found the LST-3410A available at BB online or in the Tucson area stores. How did you get the units you purchased?

Bob

I was back in Stockton yesterday (visiting in-laws), and I dropped in at BB. They still have one left, the demo unit on the shelf. It is selling for $549.99.

If anyone has Pronto (preferably for the TSU2000) codes for the LG, can you email them to me at mpeg2repair@adelphia.net? I'm specifically looking for ones where the '1394' button actually works. The one posted at Remote Central doesn't work for this button. I want to try something with a store display model that unfortunately doesn't have a remote.

Thanks.

-Mark

Originally posted by Wizziwig
I want to try something with a store display model that unfortunately doesn't have a remote.

Thanks.

-Mark

Mark

What are you intending to test out on the LG 3410?

Maybe I can simulate it for you.

This happened here on the east coast as well, at least here in DC. On Friday night at some point during the 11:00 hour it must have gone screwy because I noticed that it was 10:30 again. The unit had been off for several hours at this point (I was watching a DVD at the time I noticed the wrong time). The time was correct earlier during my DVD viewing, so it must have picked it up from the Gemstar which seems to download in my area at 11:00 (as well as other times during the day).
Originally posted by micmel2
I got the 3410a a couple of weeks ago from BB, and have been loving it since. Yesterday I noticed a quirk, and I wondered whether anyone here on this thread have noticed this one before. Last night after viewing a program that I had recorded earlier, I turned off the 3410a. The time showing on the unit was behind by one hour. I didn't want to start up the unit just to correct the time, so I decided to wait until I turn on the unit again since didn't have anything scheduled to be recorded. This morning, the correct time shows up. This leads me to believe that the unit is picking up the time from the Guide(?), and that overnight the station sending the Guide corrected the time(?). If I'm correct, then this could happen again in the future, and thus throw off any of my scheduled recordings.

Originally posted by mkerdman
Mark

What are you intending to test out on the LG 3410?

Maybe I can simulate it for you.

Just wanted to check out the mpeg2 decoder for myself. The dealer has the LG and a DVHS deck but no remote for the LG :( so I can't run my own DVHS tape through it.

Originally posted by Wizziwig
Just wanted to check out the mpeg2 decoder for myself.

There's none better that I know of.

You can play D-VHS tapes, including D-Theater, copy D-VHS tapes to the 3410's hard drive for full DVR transport control and near frame accurate editing.

Also, with the use of FireBus DTVR software/D-VHS emulation driver, you can also play PC transport stream files.

I had the same 1 hour time change on my unit over the weekend too. I'm wondering if it something to do with the end of daylight savings time this weekend. Maybe they were testing out the software or something.

Originally posted by ned215
I had the same 1 hour time change on my unit over the weekend too.

Ditto for me too, in Atlanta, GA.

-Skip

I saw the same thing as well Saturday night, and it wouldn't let me CHANGE the time either. I finally just deleted my timer recordings and shut down, hoping it would "fix" itself overnight. For once, it did! I re-entered my weekly recordings Sunday and it's been fine ever since. I wonder what's going to happen this weekend when it really IS DST?