This is my second attempt at posting. If a duplicate, please delete!

I recently completed my review of the LG LST-3410A High Definition Personal Video Recorder. I usually can't share my findings publicly, but in this case, I was given permission. I know many out there are interested in hearing some first hand information regarding the product.

This follow on to the LG Zenith HDR230, is a very capable High Definition DVR. It adds a usable EPG, Digital Cable Tuning (Clear QAM), FireWire connectivity for a limited number of D-VHS tape decks and MV video cameras, and the storage upgradeability that hobbyists are looking for. Some of the shortfalls include lack of support for the most common cable set top boxes (such as Scientific Atlanta), lack of the ability to playback while recording, limited FireWire peripheral support, and no S-video input for cable / satellite services. Also, the unit failed to archive HD content to a FireWire connected D-VHS tape deck. This last problem may be an issue with the deck, or the cable used. Stay tuned for an update.

While it doesn’t compare with a TiVo device in terms of ease use, it will appeal to the early adopter of HD DVRs.


The unit was tested with over the air digital broadcast (standard and high definition), direct connection to Time-Warner cable (Richfield, MN) for analog, digital standard definition and high definition, and connection to Time-Warner Cable though a Scientific Atlanta HD STB. The unit was then connected to a Sony KP57WS510 RPS television via Component, and DVI connections, as well as a to a Samsung HLN4365W DLP Projection Television via DVI and S-Video. Last, a JVC HM-DH30000U D-VHS deck was connected using FireWire.

The unit was simple to setup and configure, once you read that you have to use the front panel controls to select the primary output connection and format. The unit found all cable and off air sources in the first attempt at autoscanning. The network labels (with graphic logos) were very nice.

The picture quality, both real time and recorded is fabulous for digital content. Analog tuned content is not improved noticeably by the device.

I took to using the device with the remote control quickly. Another reviewer found the remote large and cumbersome. Perhaps it was more comfortable for me because I have been using the "little sister" unit, the Zenith HDR230. The remotes are very similar.

I was shocked that the unit could not be configured to control the Scientific Atlanta cable box provided by Time Warner. I would have loved to have a chance to test the included IR blaster. I was also shocked there is is S-Video input for the unit.

As already mentioned in this forum, the unit cannot playback content while recording. This is IMHO a very bad thing. Interestingly, when archiving a recorded show to a firewire device, you can tune live HD content, but not watch another previously recorded program.

Support for FireWire drives to extend storage capability would be nice. However...

I was allowed to open the case of the unit. I snapped a few photos. Before I closed the case, a 180 GB hard drive accidentially fell into the unit. It was formatted in a matter of seconds, and the menus suddenly showed I had over 17 hours of recording capacity. I of course paniced, trying to return the unit to its original configuration before anyone found out. Somehow, the original drive and the 180 GB drive were connected configured as master and slave. The unit only showed 17+ hours of storage. It seems two drives are not supported in the unit.

The TV guide service functioned OK. One bug I found is that when I configured the unit to not tune to several channels, the deleted channels remained in the guide. Perhaps waiting overnight would have cleared this issue. Again, stay tuned...

Another minor bug is that the EPG guide allowed me to schedule two programs at the same time. I cleared the second program. I wonder what would have happened if I left it. Something else for me to try.

The biggest disappointment for me was the complete failure of archiving a program to a D-VHS deck. Our deck is in the supported list. I was able to control the deck with the device's remote and a firewire cable. Everyting seemed to be archiving just fine, but when I tried to play back the program from the D-HVS deck, I would get about one frame every few seconds, no sound, and a ton of decoding artifacts. I had similar problems playing back pre- recorded D-VHS content through the unit. Now, I was using a firewire cable with a adapter. The problem might have been caused by the firewire cable. I'll retest soon.

So, all and all, an OK unit. There is clearly room for improvement.

Hope this is useful to all of you.

Wow,

So I guess you got to beta test? Niice! :-) Thanks for the preliminary it's very much anticipated and very much appreciated. Do you have to return the unit? What about upgrades, have you received any information with regards to how, when, where, how?

and no S-video input for cable...

That sucks, but I can live with it. :)

Some of the shortfalls include lack of support for the most common cable set top boxes (such as Scientific Atlanta),

You mean via an IR blaster/repeater or such? Does the 230 have that capability?

FireWire connectivity for a limited number of D-VHS tape decks.

There are only 5 in production (2 from Mits, 2 from JVC, 1 from Marantz) so I'm not sure if thats a limitation or not. I wouldn't expect an older W-VHS or older D-VHS deck to be compatible, but who knows.

How's the build quality? I played around with a HDV420 at Circuit City the other day it was built very nicely from the controls to the inputs, etc.

Samsung HLN4365W DLP Projection Television via DVI and S-Video.

How did HD look downconverted via s-video? Just curious really, and given the option to record to a standalone DVD burner, I'd do downconverted HD.

The picture quality, both real time and recorded is fabulous for digital content.

Do you have any other STB to compare to other than the TWC box? DTC100, etc? I'd like to know especially since the TWC 3510 box has a much darker picture than my DTC100.

Support for FireWire drives to extend storage capability would be nice.

Did you get a chance to try this out?

When is the unit shipping?

I snapped a few photos.

Can you share? :)

Another minor bug is that the EPG guide allowed me to schedule two programs at the same time.

Definitely try this out some more and keep us posted.

Now, I was using a firewire cable with a adapter. The problem might have been caused by the firewire cable. I'll retest soon.

What kind of adapter was it and why was it needed/used? Can you keep us posted also on a retest. Adding another firewire drive and/or archiving to D-VHS is what I'm most interested in.

Sorry about the bombardment of questions, but my night-owl-mania has kicked in (I'm probably delirious at this point).

Troy

Thanks for the review. Did I understand you correctly that you attempted to add a second 180g drive, the unit did format the drive but did not gain any recording time?

The unit as is is certainly not worth the $999 price tag. I hope they work on debugging fast.

Can you watch the current HD program on HD component video output on your HDTV while the program is being recorded?

So, everything falls in line with the preview JFerg gave a few monthes ago. I seem to remember him mentioning that the unit would support up to a 2TB hard drive. Since the 3410 gets the guide from Guide Plus, I would not expect a lot of flexibility with it such as removing channels from the guide.

I'm sure the archiving/firewire stuff will be handled through upgrades/bug fixes. I would like someone (if not the reviewer) to expand on the set-up and use of the EPG. Can you tell it which channel to "find" the data on? Does it have to be an analog (SD) station or can it be a digital (HD) equivalent? For clarification, it sounds like it DOES accept a larger hard-drive (but just not 2 of them at the same time).
Does anyone have any updated release/availability info??!!

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
Wow,

So I guess you got to beta test? Niice! :-) Thanks for the preliminary it's very much anticipated and very much appreciated. Do you have to return the unit? What about upgrades, have you received any information with regards to how, when, where, how?

I am hoping I won't have to return it any time soon. I have had no contact with the Mfgr. yet. They have not seen my review yet.

That sucks, but I can live with it. :)



You mean via an IR blaster/repeater or such? Does the 230 have that capability?

The 230 does not have an IR blaster capability. Probably never intended to work with a cable box, since it lacks QAM support.


There are only 5 in production (2 from Mits, 2 from JVC, 1 from Marantz) so I'm not sure if thats a limitation or not. I wouldn't expect an older W-VHS or older D-VHS deck to be compatible, but who knows.

How's the build quality? I played around with a HDV420 at Circuit City the other day it was built very nicely from the controls to the inputs, etc.

I was very happy with the construction of the unit and the remote.

How did HD look downconverted via s-video? Just curious really, and given the option to record to a standalone DVD burner, I'd do downconverted HD.

I didn't critically look at the S-Video quality. I will try to do so this week.

Do you have any other STB to compare to other than the TWC box? DTC100, etc? I'd like to know especially since the TWC 3510 box has a much darker picture than my DTC100.

The other HD tuners I have used with the Sony (my personal monitor) are the Zenith HDR230 and the LG LST-3100A, which (I beleive, share the same tuning subsystem. The color is the same between the 3 HD tuners, and they are all vibrant, and beautiful. Much better than the coloration I get from my TiVOs (which I dearly love, even though they are only SD) (ps - Hey, Doug B. Can I get your HD unit to test?)

Did you get a chance to try this out?

When is the unit shipping?

I cannot say.

Can you share? :)

The unit? not a chance. Wanna come by and take a look? Sure. Give me a call!

Definitely try this out some more and keep us posted.



What kind of adapter was it and why was it needed/used? Can you keep us posted also on a retest. Adding another firewire drive and/or archiving to D-VHS is what I'm most interested in.

So, the firewire cable was a 4 pin to 6 pin from a Apple Ipod, with a 6 pin to 4 pin adapter from Lord knows where. The manual for the DVR was very clear in using only the 4 pin cable. I'll pick up the correct cable from my favorite electronics store (BEST BUY!) and retest, again hopefully this week.

Sorry about the bombardment of questions, but my night-owl-mania has kicked in (I'm probably delirious at this point).

Troy [COLOR=red]

Originally posted by jacmyoung
Thanks for the review. Did I understand you correctly that you attempted to add a second 180g drive, the unit did format the drive but did not gain any recording time?

The unit as is is certainly not worth the $999 price tag. I hope they work on debugging fast.

The unit did not recognize the 2nd drive to format it.

Originally posted by ThumperBoy
Can you watch the current HD program on HD component video output on your HDTV while the program is being recorded?

Yes, so long as you don't try any trick plays (rewind, FF, etc.).

Originally posted by Stanton
I'm sure the archiving/firewire stuff will be handled through upgrades/bug fixes. I would like someone (if not the reviewer) to expand on the set-up and use of the EPG. Can you tell it which channel to "find" the data on? Does it have to be an analog (SD) station or can it be a digital (HD) equivalent? For clarification, it sounds like it DOES accept a larger hard-drive (but just not 2 of them at the same time).
Does anyone have any updated release/availability info??!!

You cannot tell the unit where to find the guide data -- it just finds it. Yes, you can put a larger hard drive in the unit, just not two drives.

Can you share?

Was in reference to the pictures you took... :)

Thanks for answering my questions.

Troy

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
Was in reference to the pictures you took... :)

Thanks for answering my questions.

Troy

Oh, sorry! They can't be posted to AVS forum. I'll try to e-mail to you directly.

what is the largest drive available that could replace the 120GB(180GB?) that comes with the unit?
joe

Originally posted by jlanzy
what is the largest drive available that could replace the 120GB(180GB?) that comes with the unit?
joe

2TB

If this thing was shipping right now, I'd be highly tempted to jump on it, warts and all. I am soooo hungry for HD timeshifting (and not one tiny whit interested in archiving). My local cable provider (TWC) rebroadcasts the local HD channels in clear QAM, so I could use it to timeshift those.

I'd replace my rarely-used SIR-T150 with it and give it a split of my cable. Then I could set it up to timeshift stuff while I watched other HD in realtime through the cable STB or SD things on TiVo. It's even possible that, incorporating a 3rd generation ATSC tuner, it could pick up the couple of local DTV stations not on my cable system which I cannot tune (the SIR-T150 is "aware" of the WB, but I've never seen it successfully tune it for more than 10 seconds).

What happens if you're in the middle of watching something and time for recording something else occurs?

Of course, after I'd invested in this thing, my cable company will introduce an HD PVR, which their threatening to do this spring ;).

Mike sounds like you have the beta firmware version for the SIR-T150 that is incompatible with KSWB (resets after a few seconds only on that channel), you need to use v1.8 firmware and that works with KSWB.

The time you got for the 180gb drive seems like it's the same as the time for a 137gb drive. You need to try a much larger drive to see if you can really upgrade past the 137gb IDE limit. Others have gotten such time on the HDR230. There are a couple of threads on this in here.

Also, I will be PMing you my e-mail. Can I get some pictures too?

When you get the new firewire cable I would like to know if it is possible to play d-theater tapes through the 3410a's DVI port. And if so if you have any control over the output resolution/aspect ratio.

Thanks,
Chris

excellent review, answers lots of questions i have had about this device. The only one I still have is Can you set it up to repeat a recording every week? For example every set it to record West Wing all season long? Thanks in advance!

Originally posted by trk306
excellent review, answers lots of questions i have had about this device. The only one I still have is Can you set it up to repeat a recording every week? For example every set it to record West Wing all season long? Thanks in advance!

Yep, you can tell it to repeat record a show every week. No ability to avoid recording reruns, and it won't find episodes on other channels.

What's the expected ship date of this unit?

Also what is clear QAM? Does Charter HDTV use clear QAM?

Originally posted by KornerKlub
So, everything falls in line with the preview JFerg gave a few monthes ago. I seem to remember him mentioning that the unit would support up to a 2TB hard drive. Since the 3410 gets the guide from Guide Plus, I would not expect a lot of flexibility with it such as removing channels from the guide.

I let the unit update a second night, and the channels I deleted were taken off the guide. I guess I just need to be more patient.

Other tests still pending. 'Tis the Season, ' Ya know.

Originally posted by cow736
What's the expected ship date of this unit?

Also what is clear QAM? Does Charter HDTV use clear QAM?

A tuner that receive "clear QAM" receives channels that are "in the clear" (unscrambled).

I have a nice setup for recording one program and watching another. I have a 8 input Extron RGBHV switcher. :)

Once I get the 3410, I'll have 3 HD sources each on a seperate input on the switcher, one cable and 2 OTA. If I want to watch one and record the other I'll just set up the recorder to the appropriate channel and start recording then switch the input on the HD set to another HD program while the recorder does it's thing.

-----> cue Pointer Sister's music <-----
I'm so excited, and I just can't hide it...

Corny I know! :D

Troy

Are there any 1-2 Terabyte IDE hard drives available for under $3000?
joe

Originally posted by cmont
When you get the new firewire cable I would like to know if it is possible to play d-theater tapes through the 3410a's DVI port. And if so if you have any control over the output resolution/aspect ratio.

Thanks,
Chris

well, it was the cable. I replaced it and archiving works great!

You can control the 1394 device with the 3410a remote.

All output of the 3410a is controlled at the time of setup using hard buttons on the front of the unit. There is no way from the remote to vary the output settings.

I like this box more all the time!

well, it was the cable. I replaced it and archiving works great!

You can control the 1394 device with the 3410a remote.

Sweeeeeeet! :D

Looks like I'm placing my pre-order today!

Troy

scan1man,

It's great to hear that you got archiving to work (to a JVC 30K right?). Anyhow, I was hoping you could answer something dealing with archiving. Is there any way to edit out commercials on programs recorded on the LST-3410A before backing them up to D-VHS? With the quick access of hard drives, this is something that I've always thought would be relatively easy for a manufacturer to implement... advance through program, press a button on the remote to mark in and out cut points and simply skip marked out segments when playing back the video stream. It would be so nice to do simple editing between decks without having to ever use a computer. The only deck I've ever seen (outside of the professional realm) that had this feature was the JVC HM-HDS1U combination hard drive/S-VHS deck. Sadly, I doubt the 3410A has this feature but perhaps you can confirm it. Thanks!

Jim

Originally posted by Jasmo
scan1man,

It's great to hear that you got archiving to work (to a JVC 30K right?). Anyhow, I was hoping you could answer something dealing with archiving. Is there any way to edit out commercials on programs recorded on the LST-3410A before backing them up to D-VHS? With the quick access of hard drives, this is something that I've always thought would be relatively easy for a manufacturer to implement... advance through program, press a button on the remote to mark in and out cut points and simply skip marked out segments when playing back the video stream. It would be so nice to do simple editing between decks without having to ever use a computer. The only deck I've ever seen (outside of the professional realm) that had this feature was the JVC HM-HDS1U combination hard drive/S-VHS deck. Sadly, I doubt the 3410A has this feature but perhaps you can confirm it. Thanks!

Jim

It does.

KornerKlub,

If by It Does you mean you can do simple edits with it then... Sweet!

Looks like I better scrap together some dough after the holidays and get me one!

Thanks for the reply!

- Jim

Are there any 1-2 Terabyte IDE hard drives available for under $3000?

I didn't even know there were single 1-2TB IDE HDDs available period. Are you aware of any at any price point?

Thanks.

It sounds like you can record straight to D-VHS without recording to the HDD when the 1394 Control Panel is open. This is straight from the manual;

You can record the current program to D-VHS.

Here's a few more highlights from the manual regarding D-VHS;

• You can record instantly to the DVHS
• You can archive contents on the HDD to the DVHS using the Program List,
• You can move contents on the DVHS to HDD.
• The HD DVR provides copy protection using DTCP.

Troy

Originally posted by scan1man
well, it was the cable. I replaced it and archiving works great!

You can control the 1394 device with the 3410a remote.

All output of the 3410a is controlled at the time of setup using hard buttons on the front of the unit. There is no way from the remote to vary the output settings.

I like this box more all the time!

Many thanks. This looks to be the one for me! OTA and QAM, built in 120gig HD and the ability to play D-Theater via DVI and record to DVHS. It does not get much better than this.

January can not come soon enough.

Chris

scan1man,

Is there any confusion when both OTA and cable sources are connected? Can you switch easily between the two and record easily from either source using the Guide?

From a different perspective, if I connect ONLY an OTA source, does the 3410A still get Guide information?

Thanks for your valuable early reports. This unit looks like "The One".

Originally posted by PhillyC
scan1man,

Is there any confusion when both OTA and cable sources are connected? Can you switch easily between the two and record easily from either source using the Guide?

From a different perspective, if I connect ONLY an OTA source, does the 3410A still get Guide information?

Thanks for your valuable early reports. This unit looks like "The One".

There is no problem either way. It lists off air and cable shows in the same guide.

Yes, the guide works fine with off the air as the only source. Seems like a miracle, huh?

Troy,

Below is what I had seen and misunderstood as an IDE drive, it can be loaded with IDE drives up to 2 T, but the host connection is SCSI so I guess it wouldn't be compatable. Too bad, that would give something like 200 hours of HD recording time ,a boatload of SD, and a s---load of analog recording. The maximum size IDE hard drives I could find were 250GB at about $1/GB.

Arena Premium 8200 12 Bay
SCSI-IDE Rackmount RAID
This 12 bay 4U rackmount SCSI-IDE RAID will provide two terabytes or more of storage at RAID5 when configured with 200Gb or greater drives. Features include three 300 watt redundant power supplies, Dual Ultra160 LVD SCSI host interface, and 64 bit i80303 controller. On-line expansion feature allows the user to add drives to an existing array on the fly. Standard with 128Mb, upgradable to 512Mb cache. RAID 0,1,0+1,3, 5, or JBOD. All drives, cooling fans and power supplies are hot swappable. Supports up to four RAID sets with multiple LUN masking. Comes with an easy to use monitoring software which allows real time event display and notification in event of array status change. 19" rack mountable. 81-3045R
$4,695.

Originally posted by jlanzy
Troy,

Below is what I had seen and misunderstood as an IDE drive, it can be loaded with IDE drives up to 2 T, but the host connection is SCSI so I guess it wouldn't be compatable. Too bad, that would give something like 200 hours of HD recording time ,a boatload of SD, and a s---load of analog recording. The maximum size IDE hard drives I could find were 250GB at about $1/GB.

Arena Premium 8200 12 Bay
SCSI-IDE Rackmount RAID
This 12 bay 4U rackmount SCSI-IDE RAID will provide two terabytes or more of storage at RAID5 when configured with 200Gb or greater drives. Features include three 300 watt redundant power supplies, Dual Ultra160 LVD SCSI host interface, and 64 bit i80303 controller. On-line expansion feature allows the user to add drives to an existing array on the fly. Standard with 128Mb, upgradable to 512Mb cache. RAID 0,1,0+1,3, 5, or JBOD. All drives, cooling fans and power supplies are hot swappable. Supports up to four RAID sets with multiple LUN masking. Comes with an easy to use monitoring software which allows real time event display and notification in event of array status change. 19" rack mountable. 81-3045R
$4,695.

Yeah, an external ATA to ATA array controller would be marvelous. Haven't seen one yet. Biggest thing I've seen is:

http://www.partspc.com/store/product4369.html

And these drives are not designed for the kind of access we need for HD PVRs.

My recommendation is to use 250 GB drives for now.

And these drives are not designed for the kind of access we need for HD PVRs.

Was that in reference to the 300Gb drive you linked to? Why would you think that wouldn't be sufficient for HD PVRs?

It's specs aren't that far off the the 120Gb drive that come in the unit. 9.4 seek time vs. 12 and they both are 7200rpm models.

I thought I remembered reading that one of the HD PVRs had a 5400rpm drive in it?! I'll have to research to find out.

Troy

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
Was that in reference to the 300Gb drive you linked to? Why would you think that wouldn't be sufficient for HD PVRs?

It's specs aren't that far off the the 120Gb drive that come in the unit. 9.4 seek time vs. 12 and they both are 7200rpm models.

I thought I remembered reading that one of the HD PVRs had a 5400rpm drive in it?! I'll have to research to find out.

Troy

Where did you get information that the HDD in the unit was a 7200rpm? I heard that it was a bit slower.

Korner,

I actually had just finished reading the HDR230 thread and looking at pics from one of the users upgrades. He had this (http://jeffshome.net/Zenithhdr230/pictures.htm) drive installed as an upgrade which is 7200rpm, sorry for the mixup.

The LST-3410a has a Seagate ST3120025ACE 120Gb drive in it and I remember from a previous post by JFerg (the Zenith tech) that this drive was the first Consumer Electronics drive (note the CE in the model name).

On Seagate's website, the ST3120025A is listed but not the CE. The spec sheet for it doesn't state what the rotational speed is but it's 5400rpm according to JFerg. There was an at length discussion about it earlier this year. I'm not sure which thread it was in, maybe you could do a search.

Troy

I was pretty sure he said it was like 6500rpm or something in that range, not a standard PC HD speed.

I was pretty sure he said it was like 6500rpm or something in that range, not a standard PC HD speed.

I thought it was 5400. Scan1man can you verify for us?

It's too bad JFerg deleted all his previous posts with regard to this unit.

Troy

I remember as 6000.

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
I thought it was 5400. Scan1man can you verify for us?

It's too bad JFerg deleted all his previous posts with regard to this unit.

Troy

The HDD is a Seagate ST3120025ACE, which I believe is a 5400RPM Drive.

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
Was that in reference to the 300Gb drive you linked to? Why would you think that wouldn't be sufficient for HD PVRs?

It's specs aren't that far off the the 120Gb drive that come in the unit. 9.4 seek time vs. 12 and they both are 7200rpm models.

I thought I remembered reading that one of the HD PVRs had a 5400rpm drive in it?! I'll have to research to find out.

Troy

The Mfgr. of the drive said it was designed for low volume read / write activity. I have never seen a drive mfgr. caveat their products like that before. That is why I was wary using it in a HD PVR. Maybe I'm wrong here.

scan1man,

Does the 3410A come with a DVI cable? I ask because the brochure says it does, but the manual says it comes with component cables, but does not mention a DVI cable.

I'd like to know in case I need to buy A DVI cable now so I'm ready for the DVR...

Originally posted by PhillyC
scan1man,

Does the 3410A come with a DVI cable? I ask because the brochure says it does, but the manual says it comes with component cables, but does not mention a DVI cable.

I'd like to know in case I need to buy A DVI cable now so I'm ready for the DVR...

Mine included a DVI cable.

Few days left til January...is this thing coming or what?

I'm already trying to find which 250GB hard drive can replace the one that comes stock, I hope there aren't any delays in releasing this unit.
joe

Scan,

Can you offer any additional updates since your original post?

Thanks.

Troy

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
Scan,

Can you offer any additional updates since your original post?

Thanks.

Troy

No, other than I am thankful that I have not had to return the unit.

I was at CES yesterday, examined the unit extensively. I talked to the LG Rep who claimed that these are already shipping, and Best Buy is carrying them. I took that, as you should, with a grain of salt. Anyone find these for sale anywhere?

Best Buy? I doubt it.

Originally posted by shfawaz
I was at CES yesterday, examined the unit extensively. I talked to the LG Rep who claimed that these are already shipping, and Best Buy is carrying them. I took that, as you should, with a grain of salt. Anyone find these for sale anywhere?

"already shipping" means, Leaving Korea. They will still need to cross the Pacific, pass US Customs, pass Quality Control, then ship to dealers.

According to my LG/Zenith rep. they have just arrived in the US and are on target to be shipped from dealers (those dealers who placed orders) on 1/23/04.

Originally posted by shfawaz
I was at CES yesterday, examined the unit extensively. I talked to the LG Rep who claimed that these are already shipping, and Best Buy is carrying them. I took that, as you should, with a grain of salt. Anyone find these for sale anywhere?

That's funny. I talked to 2 LG reps at CES. One said that I could get them late January/Early February. The other said sometime in the 1st quarter (i.e. maybe as late as March).
:(

I've been reviewing some hard disk drives in hopes of replacing the one in the 3410a (when it is finally released). Any comments on this one?

maxstore.com/product.asp?sku=2376581

I've seen it as low as $270.

(sorry, had to delete the http and www since my re-registered ID cannot yet post URLs)

scan1man,

You must be enjoying your 3410A with no complaints, since we haven't heard from you lately. :)

Perhaps you could answer another question on which the PDF manual is not clear. Can you MANUALLY set the 3410A for timer recording?

Half my OTA's have incorrect PSIP time data, and my tiny oddball cableco's channel lineup may not work properly with the Guide functions. I actually wouldn't mind defeating the Guide and using the DVR like a VCR, if necessary and if possible.

Yes you can. All you do is press the VCR Plus+ button on the remote. From there you can either enter a Plus code or manually set a timer recording.

Thanks, KornerKlub. That's good, since mine is on order. :D

The timer question brought up another question that hopefully Scanman or someone else with the unit can answer...Can the current time be set manually? In other words is there a way to keep a station from updating the time when you tune in that station?

Tonight our local ABC changed their time to Jan 3rd (which is 15 days ago). So, the Samsung 165 dutifully set its time to Jan 3rd and didn't start any timers tonight. I really hope the LG has a method to prevent this.

alk3997,

The PDF manual says you can set the clock manually, but then follows with this note:

"You cannot change clock time after it is set by TV Guide On Screen™
system."

This only leads to more questions, like many other items in the manual.

Are Guide times for OTA digital channels the same as the PSIP time sent by those channels? Where does the OTA Guide info come from? If it's PBS, what if I can't always have my indoor antenna positioned to pick it up. (I have to move the antenna for different OTA stations.)

If necessary, can we purposely disable the Guide?

And on and on...

Like you, I have the T165 with all it's annoyances, so I'm leary of how the 3410A will handle unusual individual situations.

My feeling form reports here is that the 3410A will prove to be well thought out and a good performer if the Guide/clock operation doesn't cause problems in my setup.

The time is NOT set by each station with this unit. That is part of the reason that they went to Guide Plus for the guide. One program guide, one clock setting, no worries. PSIP program information and clock settings are ignored.

As far as receiving the Guide, it is transmitted via the analog PBS carrier as well, both OTA and Cable. Keep in mind that this unit can tune analog and digital, OTA and Cable.

This sounds good, but is still not entirely clear. I will be connected to analog cable and limited (indoor antenna) OTA digital. Where will this single time setting for the 3410A come from?

For instance, I know the Chicago PBS OTA digital channel NEVER has the correct time. The analog OTA PBS channel may not be picked up by the indoor antenna. The cable analog PBS channel should be OK, since my VCR's get the correct time automatically.

How will the 3410A decide which signal is right?

Yes, you can. What I do is set it automatically, then switch to Manual. That way the clock is set once correctly, but then show timings are not reset on a station by station basis.

yes, you can. I selected Auto first to set the time, then reset back to manual so that the clock is not reset as I record on one channel then annother.

Does the 3410a allow simultaneous view/record?

If you are talking about the same program, then the answer is yes.

You can't record one program while watching a different program.

Functions more like a VCR.

Dave

Since I already have pre-order in for the new 3410 unit. I was just wondering if they are still on schedule for the 23rd and when the expected delivery date will be for consumer?

BMelvin,

DTVs Dealer website states a 1/29 date now.

Troy

Well!!

I knew it would be too good to be TRUE for the 23rd. Looks like I wont be able to record the Superbowl

If they get their shipment in that morning you may be able to get it on Fri or Sat with rush shipping.....just an idea.

Troy

Originally posted by PhillyC
alk3997,

The PDF manual says you can set the clock manually, but ...

I have been looking for a pdf copy of the 3410a manual, but I can only locate the a two page specification sheet. Where is the manual available?

http://www.lge.com/catalog/prodmodeldetail?catModel=2&actType=&modelName=&globalCode=LST-3410A&modelPrefix=40AVSD&globalSuffix=000000&currentPage=&categoryId=CTG1000442&parentId=ROOT&modelCategoryId=CTG1000472#

I'm also interested in purchasing the LST 3410A asap. Let me know if anyone has received one that they ordered and from whom.

Nobody has one yet. The first shipment is due the end of next week.

They will be available in SOME Best Buy Stores next week as part of a test.

The specifications page in the owner's manual, p.64, shows the following:

Channel coverage: Terrestrial: 2-69, Cable: 1-125

I can only assume that limiting cable to 125 channels is just a big typo !!

Can any of you beta testers confirm that the unit receives cable channels higher than 125 ?

"Digital Cables" channels that the unit, for some reason tunes, show up as QAM channels with virtual channel assignments.

A couple questions for scan1man or KornerKlub:

Can you play back archived material from d-vhs through firewire to 3410a and out via dvi to monitor and at the same time record something different on the hdd?

Will the 3410a be able to play back d-vhs via firewire that was originally recorded by sir-t165 via firewire to mits 2000 ?

tia

Lew

Don't take this personally, but it's questions like this that make me understand why consumer product managers can't "win for losing". I can't believe you even thought of these scenarios let alone what you're actually going to do with them!

Originally posted by scan1man
They will be available in SOME Best Buy Stores next week as part of a test.

Any way to get a list of the Best Buy stores that will stock it, what areas?
Will any of them be in the Southern California, San Diego area?

What about NYC?

Originally posted by dneily
The specifications page in the owner's manual, p.64, shows the following:

Channel coverage: Terrestrial: 2-69, Cable: 1-125

I can only assume that limiting cable to 125 channels is just a big typo !!

Can any of you beta testers confirm that the unit receives cable channels higher than 125 ?

Hmmm. Thats what the LG rep told me at CES and I posted this earlier in another thread. Can you site your source of this information?

Mark (on 1-22-04) posted the following link to download the pdf file:

http://www.lge.com/products/mobile/mobil/sidemenu.do?action=list&group_code=CTG1000472&list_code=PRD_MANU&target=manulist&categoryId=CTG1000442&modelCategoryId=CTG1000472&parentId=ROOT

Another request for a list of BB stores which will be stocking the unit this week (if available.)

Stanton:

I didn't take it personal, however, I do have a sir-t165 and Mits- 2000 d-vhs recorder. They work most of the time, but playback from the Mits through the 165 is very cumbersome if not frustrating when trying to fast forward or anything other than "turn it on and step back".

The inability of the 3410a to play one thing from the hdd and record another at the same time is a severe limitation. I was hoping the 3410a would play back from the mits with less difficulty. If the mits is playing back I obiously can't record via the 165 at the same time. I was hoping the 3410a might be able to record another program while playing through the mits feed.

It would be nice if this worked, but it won't make a difference to me as I already ordered mine.

I am curious though. I thought D-Theater tapes only played out through JVC d-vhs players. Can they be played out through firewire to the 3410a or 165?

Lew

Originally posted by shfawaz
Hmmm. Thats what the LG rep told me at CES and I posted this earlier in another thread. Can you site your source of this information?

My unit lists channels 2- 135 for cable sources, and 2-69 for OTA.

I hope then that >135 channels could at least be manually added!!
Otherwise my SciFi Channel is on 160 and I'd have split my cable input with one running into my JVC DVHS to record that channel. Oh! Wait a minute I'm beginning to see, More convience=More complication. On another thread on this forum there is a tribute/memorial to the late Captain Kangaroo whom I grew up watching. A Channel Master rooftop antenna 19" black and white tv and 5 channels, who could have wanted for more!
joe

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
I didn't even know there were single 1-2TB IDE HDDs available period. Are you aware of any at any price point?

Thanks.

Troy

http://www.expercom.com/product_detail.html?PRODUCT_ID=247055

FIRENAS SERVER 1 TB HOT SWAP RAID SATA 7200 RPM BY UNIBRAIN

Mfc. Retail Price: $5,990.00
ExperCom Price: $5,595.00
Your Savings: $395.00 (6.6%)

I thought this unit could only utilize ATA hard drives, which the largest I think is 300GB.
joe

Of course if they keep delaying its release long enough there might be 1-2 TB ATA HDDs by then!
joe

I'd rather see this delay (since 3rd quarter 2003) than a rush to market, if it means that LG has used the time to squash any bugs in the unit.

But it sure has been a looooonnnnng and tiresome wait...

Originally posted by jlanzy
I hope then that >135 channels could at least be manually added!!
Otherwise my SciFi Channel is on 160 and I'd have split my cable input with one running into my JVC DVHS to record that channel. Oh! Wait a minute I'm beginning to see, More convience=More complication. On another thread on this forum there is a tribute/memorial to the late Captain Kangaroo whom I grew up watching. A Channel Master rooftop antenna 19" black and white tv and 5 channels, who could have wanted for more!
joe

See my previous reply about higher cable channels.

Otherwise my SciFi Channel is on 160

Channels numbers on cable box have no relation to 3410 QAM tuner. Cable company uses mapping so they can put it on channel 1000 if they want. SciFi channel will show up on 3410 as something like 110-5 as it will use actual frequency.

I don't know if this means anything, but I was in a Best Buy in Eastern Ohio(Boardman,OH to be exact) and although the sales rep I spoke too didn't know whether or not they would have the LST-3410A, I did notice that they had the Samsung T165 on "CLEARANCE".

Not that one thing might constitute another, but maybe BB is trying to move out one manufacturer while bringing in a new model from another.

It is entirely possible that BB and CC have a new deal in place with LG(Zenith parent company) to handle their new equipment. Not just the televisions, but alot of their other equip. as well.

Remember, it wasn't until late last year, that BB started to carry some of Zenith's new line of HDTV's. LG may have come to the conclusion(unlike Samsung) that it might be better to make all of their products, even their"higher end" products more readily available to the public at large

IMHO this is the reason why I got a Zenith C27V36 from CC than the Samsung TXN2798 which is what I really wanted at first. Could not find that one locally anywhere in Western PA or Eastern OH. I find it hard to spend money on something like this without an easy way to return it if it has a problem or I am just not satisfied which I completely am.

CKNA,

Thanks for the clarifying the >125(135) numerical limit. I guess it will have cable box control and that setting the LG to its corresponding 110-5 or whatever,that it will be able to change the cable box to the appropriate channel number, in my case 160 to record onto the HDD?
joe

Well, I went to BB, and they looked it up for me, and said that they are not expecting any, at least according to their computer. 6th Ave, same thing.

Originally posted by jlanzy
CKNA,

Thanks for the clarifying the >125(135) numerical limit. I guess it will have cable box control and that setting the LG to its corresponding 110-5 or whatever,that it will be able to change the cable box to the appropriate channel number, in my case 160 to record onto the HDD?
joe

Joe you will not need to cable. If you are going to hookup your cable feed to the 3410A then the HD signal will have to be unscrambled (ie clear QAM). I have Comcast and all the major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox) are in the clear; ESPN and INHD1 & INHD2 are scrambled and my LG 3510A can not tune them. I am assuming that the 3410A tuner behaves the same as the 3510A.

Originally posted by dozens
Joe you will not need to cable. If you are going to hookup your cable feed to the 3410A then the HD signal will be to be unscrambled (ie clear QAM). I have Comcast and all the major networks (ABC, CBS, NBC, Fox) are in the clear; ESPN and INHD1 & INHD2 are scrambled and my LG 3510A can not tune them. I am assuming that the 3410A tuner behaves the same as the 3510A.

This is going to kill this box for me. In anticipation of the 3410a I tried the 3510a on my local cable (Charter) and could only get the 2 OTA network feeds they currently carry, all other HD was scrambled. So I called and added the HD package and still no other HD. Then I got their receiver (SA 3250) thinking I could pass through the unscrambled RF signal but that requires an additional RF bypass card from SA, which the cable company doesn't supply and seem to have no interest to. For the long term I don't see what the 3410 gets you except OTA HD and SD cable.

Why can't you just send the cable feed into the 3410 after it has been unscrambled by the cable box? Wouldn't that work?

"I could pass through the unscrambled RF signal but that requires an additional RF bypass card from SA"

Originally posted by scottb4u
Why can't you just send the cable feed into the 3410 after it has been unscrambled by the cable box? Wouldn't that work?

I was hoping I could send the decoded signal from the cable box into the 3410a, but the inputs for video in on the 3410a are only for SD composite video and audio. No HD component video inputs, and no DVI input, so I could only record SD out of my cable box, and only unscrambled HD signals from the cable without the box.

Is there anyway to verify if our local PBS OTA station is transmitting an accurate guide before I go out and buy one of these units?

I currently have a T165 and a T150 and have never seen anything even resembling a guide when I tune into the T165 to record via DVHS...? Most times, my guides are empty time slot boxes.... and I just set my unit to record via time like a really old VCR.

The "guide" is Guide Plus+ (TV Guide, Gemstar). They have complete coverage across the US, and do not just transmit on PBS. They often have multiple stations sending the data.

They often have multiple stations sending the data.Via HDTV OTA? Like I asked... anyway to tell if any of my current OTA digital stations are transmitting that guide?

Also, if we use the delete channel feature to delete the channel, from our surfing, which has the guide, will we still automatically get the guide?

anyway to tell if any of my current OTA digital stations are transmitting that guide?

I'd recommend calling your local stations. You can also find out more information by going to the Gemstar (http://www.gemstartvguide.com/whatwedo/tvgonscreen.asp) website directly.

Like KornerKlub mentioned they have US coverage and I'm sure you won't have any problems in TX.

Also, if we use the delete channel feature to delete the channel, from our surfing, which has the guide, will we still automatically get the guide?

Was already addressed in the body of this thread by the original poster, here's what he said.

I let the unit update a second night, and the channels I deleted were taken off the guide. I guess I just need to be more patient.

It seems like you're making it harder than it has to be.

Troy

The Guide-Plus is sent on the analog channels.

The Guide-Plus is sent on the analog channels.Oh boy. I don't know if I can receive an analog signal this far from the towers? Do analog signals travel as far as the digital ones?

Originally posted by merc
Oh boy. I don't know if I can receive an analog signal this far from the towers? Do analog signals travel as far as the digital ones?

They are sent on Cable too.

OKay, has anyone tried to send the video (live or recorded) directly to a TV (or tuner) with 1394 ports like a Mits integrated TV. I'm tired of adding more component and toslink devices when firewire carries all the info on one little cable all digitally.

Paul

They are sent on Cable too.I wasn't planning on hooking this up to my analog cable at all. The guide I get on my cable is a continually scrolling one located on channel 99. I'd hope that the guide being used on the 3410a is not this same guide but instead one like those I use on my ReplayTV units?

Originally posted by protsch
OKay, has anyone tried to send the video (live or recorded) directly to a TV (or tuner) with 1394 ports like a Mits integrated TV. I'm tired of adding more component and toslink devices when firewire carries all the info on one little cable all digitally.

Paul

That should not work since, according to the owner's manual it state that the 1394 ports are for a DVHS or MV Camcorder only.

That should not work since, according to the owner's manual it state that the 1394 ports are for a DVHS or MV Camcorder only.

I wouldn't be the farm on it, but I'd be willing to take a wager that this would work on a firewire capable set. The firewire connections are both input and output and if they can pass the MPEG2-TS signal to D-VHS and D-VHS can pass the signal to an integrated set, then the 3410 should be able to play/record to an integrated set directly (or indirectly).

The disclaimer about D-VHS AND MV camcorder is only a disclaimer that basically says "don't expect our firewire input/output to work with every friggin thing you try to hook up to it bud!".

Anyone placing wagers? :D

I've got the JVC GR-HD1 HD camcorder and I've hooked it up to every set available that has a firewire input. All the sets have recognized it and were able to control it via their remote. It played back fine and looked excellent!

Troy

Troy, can this camcorder record HD through its video in? or is it only SD capable? I read the manual off the jvc site and it looks pretty clear that's the case (SD only) but thought I would ask anyway.

Sorry this is OT...

Originally posted by merc
I wasn't planning on hooking this up to my analog cable at all. The guide I get on my cable is a continually scrolling one located on channel 99. I'd hope that the guide being used on the 3410a is not this same guide but instead one like those I use on my ReplayTV units?

TV Guide On Screen (http://www.vgi.com/)

Akelley,

I sent you a private message with regard to the GR-HD1.

Troy

When received QAM is saved to the hard drive is it in mpeg2? When QAM is demodulated is mpeg2 the output?

Scenic,

QAM is a transfer methodology. MPEG2 is a compression codec. More than likely your cable QAM is transferring MPEG2 so yes, the hard drive is recording MPEG2.

Yes to the last part also.

Troy

Anybody got their units yet? I'm very eager to hear more about other opinions on this unit. :)

One thing that really scared me at first was the fact that they were using the "Gemstar TV On Screen" service, which I thought would dictate the UI too. I currently have a Mot5108 and the Comcast "TV Guide" UI is the worst UI experience I've ever had with my A/V components. But after looking at the manual, it looks like the UI is different.

A few questions for those who tried it so far:

1. Is the UI responsive? How long does it take to change a channel?
2. How annoying are the ads in the guide view?
3. It is easy to search something? (can you search?)
4. Can you hide channels on the guide? Do you skip them when doing a Channel Up/Down?
5. Is there any conflict management? If so, what does it look like?
6. On a scheduled recording, will it automatically change the time if the guide knows about a schedule change for a specific show? Or is it fixed time-wise?
7. Do you have to keep the unit turned on for it to record a scheduled show?
8. How noisy/hot is the unit?
9. I know this is probably different depending on the area, but the unit says it supports unscrambled digital CATV. Are there any non-HD digital channels known to be unscrambled (we have Comcast here)?

Thank you very much in advance.

-eric

1. Other than for set-upand adjustments, the UI is mostly Gemstar. Changing channels is not "fast" but faster than on most D* units. Whenever changing to a digital cable channel, it slows a bit as though it must determine the virtual channels again. Nothing so bad that you could not live with though.

2. I have yet to see and actual "ads" in the guide. The section for ads is currently used for addtional access to Gemstar features.

3. VERY extensive search options. So much, that I havn't used them.

4. You can hide channels IN the guide and normal hide functions, independantly. If you don't want a channel to show in the guide, hide it there. If you want to pass over a channel when Ch Up or Ch down, delete it in the main menu of the unit.

5. What type of conflict mgmt? If you are talking about in recording set-up, all recording scheduling is done through the guide, therefore, it will not allow conflicts.

6. IF the guide is informed of a schedule change, then the recording time will be altered. You can also adjust the sceduled recording to start early or end late if you desire.

7. You do not need to keep the unit in any power state for scheduled recordings. If it is off prior to recording, it will turn back off afterwards. If it was on, it will remain on. The only power setting requirements are that you must have it OFF to receive guide data.

8. NO noise or heat!

9. My Comcast connected found 211 channels, some had nothing on them though (InDemand PPV).

KornerKlub,

Hey, did I miss something in the thread or did you happen upon a 3410 and didn't tell anyone?!

Inquiring minds want to know.

Troy

KornerKlub, thanks for the quick answer. :)

5. Conflict Mgmt: Let me give you an example: let's say I'm trying to record a show at 8 and one at 9 on every Thursday nights. And let's say that something's coming up next week and the 8pm show is officially moved to 9pm (showing in the guide). How will the unit decide which show to record?

8. No fans? No drive noise? Are you serious? That would be sweet... :)

9. How many of those were non-HD digital channels? Which channels are we talking about (besides the PPV)? Reading the specs, the unit can access Digital CATV up to 135. How can you map 211 channels?

Thanks.

-eric

Originally posted by ericjut
KornerKlub, thanks for the quick answer. :)

5. Conflict Mgmt: Let me give you an example: let's say I'm trying to record a show at 8 and one at 9 on every Thursday nights. And let's say that something's coming up next week and the 8pm show is officially moved to 9pm (showing in the guide). How will the unit decide which show to record?
-eric

This is a time-based recorder. In your scenerio it would simply record the same timeslots at 8:00 and at 9:00 week after week so there is never any "conflict".

To do what your scenerio describes you need a named-based recorder like the Tivo. THe New HDTivo (releases in march/april)would record both since the Tivo has 4 built-in tuners (2 for sat, 2 for OTA) although only two can record at the same time.

tomr,

From the information I got, it's doesn't look like the 3410A is completely time-based, because:
a) From KornerKlub's answer to my question #6, the guide would change the timing of a scheduled show if it changes.
b) The unit supports VCR+ codes, which will also change the time appropriately if necessary.

If those two statements are true, that means that there is a way for the unit to be scheduled to record 2 shows (on 2 different channels) at the same time, if there's a change in the schedule (this very situation happened to me just last week).

It's a little hard to reproduce, so I gather that there's no real way to manage this case with this unit.

-eric

Hi,
Cousin's video just got these in. I should receive mine next Tuesday. They are selling them for msrp. Will post a photo of the inside when I install the large drive.
Al

Originally posted by BOBCAT
Hi,
Cousin's video just got these in. I should receive mine next Tuesday. They are selling them for msrp. Will post a photo of the inside when I install the large drive.
Al

Has anyone posted information on upgrading the hard drive? Is it a simple swap, or will it need adapters or modifications? I've got a 250Gb 7200RPM Western Digital ready to go in mine, but I don't know if it will be plug and play, or some formatting will be necessary.

Has anyone posted information on upgrading the hard drive? Is it a simple swap, or will it need adapters or modifications? I've got a 250Gb 7200RPM Western Digital ready to go in mine, but I don't know if it will be plug and play, or some formatting will be necessary.

That's what this whole thread is about! You need to read the first post in this thread, it has all your answers!

Troy

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
That's what this whole thread is about! You need to read the first post in this thread, it has all your answers!

Troy

Thanks for your answer Troy. But I have been following and reading this thread since it's inception. Although there is talk about upgrading, no one has nailed down any specifics. What is the interface of the original hard drive, and does it limit the recording time to 17 hours like the Zenith regardless of hard drive size? Is it an Ultra ATA or other interface? Does the drive speed matter? The reviewer only dropped in a 180Gb hard drive, will a 250Gb yield a higher recording time than the 17 hours, or will it have a limitation like the Zenith unit? Maybe not enough people have this unit to report, but I thought I'd ask.

You can add a single IDE hard drive of any size available to the unit. You can then format the drive using the remote and the firmware of the unit itself. It could not be any better (OK, there could be multiple drive support, SATA support, removable drive cage, and content transfer utility, but these are extreme ideas)!

Originally posted by scan1man
You can add a single IDE hard drive of any size available to the unit. You can then format the drive using the remote and the firmware of the unit itself. It could not be any better (OK, there could be multiple drive support, SATA support, removable drive cage, and content transfer utility, but these are extreme ideas)!

The original drive has been referred to as "the first consumer electronics drive". Does a different drive result in any additional noise or heat?

Did you try a drive larger than 180GB?

I think DTV TiVo Dealer said his people were going to talk with LG about the requirements for substitute drives, and his Web page even had a price listed for performing the upgrade service. But no further comments were made and the upgrade item was removed from the Web page. I wonder if LG has frowned upon this idea and is discouraging discussion of it by their dealers. Or if there are real problems inherent in a drive switch.

PhillyC,

You hit the nail on the head, LG has discouraged dealers from modifying these units, hence the elimination of offering this 'upgrade' from **************** web site.
joe

Originally posted by jlanzy
PhillyC,

You hit the nail on the head, LG has discouraged dealers from modifying these units, hence the elimination of offering this 'upgrade' from **************** web site.
joe

I'm not really interested in opening the unit at first. If it performs well over time and larger "CE" drives appear, I might think about upgrading. Granted, it appears that any drive with the same interface will work, but I'm still leery of using just any ol' drive. And can a consumer even buy a "CE" drive from Seagate? It's not on their Web site.

A search turned up model ST3160022ACE U9 on German and U.K. sites. This appears to be a 160GB "CE" 7200 RPM drive.

Anyway, I'll let others experiment and report on the results of drive upgrades. There are many questions to be answered before I'd be comfortable doing this.

Swapping a hard drive, would be a modification, and void the warranty.

I would much rather purchase a D-VHS to archive to and maintain my warranty.

Originally posted by PhillyC
I'm not really interested in opening the unit at first. If it performs well over time and larger "CE" drives appear, I might think about upgrading. Granted, it appears that any drive with the same interface will work, but I'm still leery of using just any ol' drive. And can a consumer even buy a "CE" drive from Seagate? It's not on their Web site.

A search turned up model ST3160022ACE U9 on German and U.K. sites. This appears to be a 160GB "CE" 7200 RPM drive.

Anyway, I'll let others experiment and report on the results of drive upgrades. There are many questions to be answered before I'd be comfortable doing this.

Phil.

I'm definitely upgrading to the largest utilizable drive available but I'm with you in letting the more adventuresome and skilled electronics tweakers do some groundwork before buying the lowest price highest GB HDD and voiding the warranty as I fiddle around finding out I just created a $999 plus doorstop. Not to mention the pain that would be inflicted on me by my wife seeing a $999plus doorstop of my own creation!
joe

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Swapping a hard drive, would be a modification, and void the warranty.

I would much rather purchase a D-VHS to archive to and maintain my warranty.

I do have a pair of Mits HD2000's. Six 2.5 hour tapes have been more than enough for my timeshifting purposes. So the 3410A 12 hour HD capability should be enough. In a pinch or for archiving I can offload to D-VHS.

My HD is limited to OTA until September or later, so I don't have to contend with cable movies taking up space. At that time, I should also have a DVR from the cable company.

Right now, I just want to relax and enjoy my 3410A --- if it ever ships. Tomorrow is the day, I think.

Right now, I just want to relax and enjoy my 3410A --- if it ever ships. Tomorrow is the day, I think.

Okay... has it shipped..... I DOUBT IT....

I got mine on Friday.

Originally posted by mgram
I got mine on Friday.

From which dealer?

Georgia Home Theater in Atlanta.

Originally posted by mgram
I got mine on Friday.

Have you had a chance to try it out yet? Any issue?

I got it Friday and installed it Saturday. I love it.

I have no experience with Tivo, so I can't make a comparison between the two. That said, setup was extremely easy. The only issue I had was getting the TV guide set to the right lineup. It was operator error, not a unit problem. Recording and playback are childs play.

My only issue is the inputs and outputs. it doesn't have a dvi input, so i can't output hd from my comcast stb. It doen't have an s-video input, so I can't even use that mode from my comcast stb. The only option for that is to use the rf out (which downconverts hd to 480i) or the composite video output from the comcast box. I had hoped to be able to play digital signals through the 1384 jack into my mits 55909, but the 1384 output doesn't work for playback to tv's.

It does have a optical audio output, so i can have 5.1 into my receiver.

The picture looks just like I was watching it from the broadcast. HD is awesome, and analog cable is much better than vhs.

Overall, if I had to make the decision again, I would still pay the bucks.

mgram,

What if you split your incoming cable and bypass the Comcast box to feed the RF in on the 3410A? You won't get premium channels, but you might get lots of others including your local HD networks.

It depends on whether Comcast in your area scrambles all or only a few channels.

It's disappointing that the Comcast box down-converts the RF out signal. I wonder why they do this. Which model cable box do you have? My setup will soon be similar to yours --- and the first time I have ever needed a cable box. (!)

I did split the signal, so I have a comcast rf feed to the dvr. I get all of the analog channels, but Comcast in Atlanta scrambles most of the digital signals. I am able to receive several music (as in audio only) channels, and a couple of unscrambled digital OTA channels (NBC and CBS).


I have the Motorola 5100 box from comcast. They have indefinitely delayed rolling out the 62xx box (no reason given).

but the 1384 output doesn't work for playback to tv's.

That really surprises me...especially given the fact that it can be recognized by a D-VHS machine and D-VHS and the Mits set recognize each other.

I can't wait to get mine to try it out.

Troy

The owner's manual clearly states that the 1394 ports are for D-VHS and MV camcorders only. (Even lists model numbers)

How cool would this be....

The Arc-5010 is a 5 IDE raid 5 drive solution with an IDE connector on the ouside. It's meant to be an "internal raid solution", but could sit on top of the LG fine. Theoretically, you could put 5 300 gb drives in this, and get a single IDE connector that will have 1.2 TB's of storage available... I wonder if the 3410 is 48bit LBA complaint. Has anyone put a big disk in theirs yet?

http://www.areca.us/IDERAID.htm

I own a JVC HDV 1U SVHS/DV recorder with an IEEE 1394/ Firewire input. Can I record to it using the Firewire connection?


How does the RGBHV look? Is it 1080i? Do you have 480i at the S out at the same time as the RGBHV is available? Is there a place to look at the manual?

mgram,

I've had a 3410 on order from GA Home Theater for a couple of weeks. I called them today for an update. Looks like you got the only one they have received. Now they're hoping mine comes in "this week". I hope it's soon, as I will be returning my Samsung 165 this week.

Have you tried using it for OTA? I'm on BellSouth cable, which currently has no plans to offer HD. They have otherwise been very good, and I hate to have to switch to Comcast just for HD.

Jim

It works great for OTA.

MrHiFi,

You can download the manual from the following address:

http://us.lge.com/Product/proddetail.do?action=tv&prodId=LST-3410A&categoryId=010403

The owner's manual clearly states that the 1394 ports are for D-VHS and MV camcorders only. (Even lists model numbers)I can't freaking believe it. My Mitsubitshi HD2000u DVHS is not listed as being supported...? The HD1000 is listed. Can anyone verify if my Mits HD2000u works perfectly with the 3410?

Originally posted by merc
I can't freaking believe it. My Mitsubitshi HD2000u DVHS is not listed as being supported...? The HD1000 is listed. Can anyone verify if my Mits HD2000u works perfectly with the 3410?

I saw this some time ago, but my guess is that the list is not up to date. As long as the brand is there, it should be OK.

I have a pair of HD2000's and I'll let you know when I receive the 3410A in a few days.

Mine should be here Tuesday.

I was down near Pittsburgh(Robinson township to be exact) on business and decided to stop in at local BEST BUY and give SKU# I got from the forum just to see if these things will be available. Sure enough it came up and it listed an inventory date of availability of 2/22/04. This was in Pittsburgh and I had the salesmen check for the BB's closer to me in E Ohio.(Boardman and Niles) Sure enough the LG LST-3410a cam up and had inventory date of 2/22/04(Sunday). Not sure if this is set in stone, but it does look very promising.

$999.95 retail

I've read the owner's manual and I'm uncertain about programming to record. Am I correct that there is no way to program for a specified channel at a specified time for a specified interval without using the TV Guide?

Also, if I have both cable and OTA, will all OTA stations, both analog and digital, appear in the program guide? It seems you have to select either cable or no cable, but you can't select both as sources of program information.

Originally posted by astronomer
I've read the owner's manual and I'm uncertain about programming to record. Am I correct that there is no way to program for a specified channel at a specified time for a specified interval without using the TV Guide?

Also, if I have both cable and OTA, will all OTA stations, both analog and digital, appear in the program guide? It seems you have to select either cable or no cable, but you can't select both as sources of program information.

I don't know about your second question astronomer, but as to your first question, the LG is like a VCR in a sense to what you are referring to. It can be manually programmed like a VCR with you manually adjusting time length, channel, how many times, set a few minutes before and after airtime, etc.... Or you can use the guide to set up recording programs.

FIREWIRE DOES WORK THROUGH MITS TV!!

Got mine a couple of hours ago so I'm still playing. The guide won't come in till leaving it off overnight so I can't say much about that or recording yet.

But as far as 1394 goes, I can answer a few questions.

First when you plug it (1394) into a Mits integrated TV (Netcommand 2.0),
it pops up when you turn it on just like a DVHS. It says 1394 device found and spews out name. You can then call it what you want and after going through the setup, it will have a new icon (looks like a computer monitor).In fact that is what it called it when it came up, I believe. When you try to pick it from the Device Menu, it gives 2 options (D-Tuner & D-Other). I don't know why because they do the same thing. Nothing at first.

Then after running through the LST-3410 setup using comp input, I started playing. First I ran through OTA setup- found all my normal channels (analog and digital including one of the weaker ones. If you go to signal strength meter it shows a bar with no number (just Bad-Normal-Good) (BTW, there is a button just for signal strength- Great for tweaking without going through the whole menu) Also, a little NO SIGNAL balloon will bounce around the screen instead of staying in one place (to prevent burn-in).

Then I played with screen format- Very flexible (even with HD signals)- Set By Program - Standard - Wide - Zoom - Cinema Zoom (you can set the magnification) + others depending on HD or SD (awesome to get rid of sidebars).

Then I found the 1394 button. If you have a DVHS hooked up (Mine was the Mits HD-2000U hooked up through TV. KEEP IN MIND MANUAL SAYS NOT TO DAISY CHAIN THOUGH DVR ITSELF. ) , the button will show DVHS logo with the player name (the right one so 2000U is recognized)when selected. Then it has a little Device Menu just like NetCommand where you can turn on the DVHS and play the tape. (The picture will pop up from the DVHS and everything going through Firewire.) It also had Mits Projection TV on the 1394 Menu but then it says unsupported Device.

However, I selected the DVR 1394 Icon from Netcommand and this time up popped the picture from the LG Tuner. (Ha, it does work!!) The only thing is there are no menu or info graphics dislpayed through 1394. Analog picture is also not displayed and you cannot change the screen format either. YOU JUST GET RAW DIGITAL PICTURE. You can tell channel you are on by looking at the display on the box (CH 10-1 and the TIME for instance).

Going back I added cable (QAM), I got a bunch of channels including AUDIO ONLY channels which my integrated tuner never would play (It would call it a SCRAMBLED Channel). It had a little trouble finding a couple of channels but you can manual tune it in. Probably a signal strength issue. (BTW, AUDIO ONLY bounces around like NO SIGNAL does. When I tried the 1394 input for cable, I don't get a good picture though. The TV can't display it right (TOO MUCH INFO?) and I get a lot of pixelation. Hopefully offloading cable recording won't result in the same nonwatchable picture. Also, my TV reset once when trying to watch digital cable through the 1394 ports. I will play with it more later. Cable guy might be able to increase my signal a little so that might help. Some channels also take a while to tune up. So far those two issues with digital cable are my biggest complaints.

Overall, this thing rocks and should go well with my setup.

Paul

FIREWIRE DOES WORK THROUGH MITS TV!!

I knew dang well it would!!! I bet my GR-HD1 will work as well....

So your cable box has firewire also?

Thanks for the verification.

Troy

Shows a picture / works Not exactly the same, no results are garenteed or supported. ;)

Odd about the Audio Only channels, as mine has program info displayed. That must be something that my Comcast is including. I have also been able to watch "some" PPV movies on mine, I guess whenever someone else close by is purchasing them the unit "piggy backs" on the signal?:D

The only "issues" I have are...

The guide set-up has a slight learning curve to it. After some messing around I was able to re-map the virtual channel assignments for digital cable to the correct channels within the guide.

Several channels are not included in the guide. From previous experience with Guide Plus+, I know that is an issue with the guide system and not the unit itself. They only send channel info for a set number of channels based on the market, and currently they must feel that INHD is not very important in my market.

Actually the only issue I have with the actual unit is the fact that I cannot delete sub-channels. I am unable to keep 85-1 thru -5 and remove 85-6 thru -10. I can only keep or remove the entire 85- group. Oh well, I guess I will have to keep "Nick Gas" in there. :(

One other thing to note that I noticed is the way that the titles are auto-set to the program list. If you set the program to start recording a couple minutes before the actual start of the program (or if the change of info is slow between shows), the title of the previous show is saved. It can be edited though, just something to be aware of.

Like I said, I haven't had much time to play with it so the guide data hasn't finished downloading yet - maybe I will get more info on the audio channels.

Not sure what you meant by "picture/works". I meant that both audio/video is displayed. Still experimenting though. If you mean that Havi is not supported, this is true. You can't change channels or record via TV menus, but the firewire sends a/v to the TV which someone said it didn't. Well it works OTA just fine. I'm just getting to the recording features so that'll come later. Promise I'll report.

Paul

Anyone manage to get the recordings off the unit via firewire ?

Okay, my review part two.

Had a little time to play now so here's some more info.

Yes, you can record from DVHS to 3410 using its own little 1394 menu. This was verified with a recording of HBO-HD that I made from a Motorola 6200 to my Mits 2000U. You just play the tape and then hit the DVR Rec button and it will save to hard drive.

Going back the other way is supposed to be really easy. (although I haven't tried it yet) In the recorded programs list, there is an option to DUB to DVHS. So it should automatically dump the recording to the DVHS. Manual states that you can watch a live station while it is doing this so that's a pretty nice feature.

Firewire has a few quirks though.
Like I said before, the QAM picture going from the 3410 to the Mits TV via firewire is unwatchable, especially HD. Also, you cannot watch the recordings at all via firewire.(Big disappointment). When you try, the live channel you were last watching is shown instead.
You also cannot watch the DVHS playing through the 3410 using the firewire to the TV (with the 3410 firewire icon selected ...confused yet?).Not a big deal since the DVHS has its own firewire icon anyway.

Like I said, yesterday, no icons or guide data through the firewire (just the raw audio/video).

Also, it really gets confused if you have more than two devices in the firewire chain NO MATTER WHERE THEY ARE IN THE CHAIN. So when it says do not daisy chain in the manual, it means pretty much no daisy chain period. I had a external firewire hard drive that I use for a "repeater" for long cable runs (the 3410 called it a DMI, I think). With the chain like this

TV-->HARD DRIVE-->DVHS-->3410, it said "TOO MANY 1394 DEVICES, PLEASE DISCONNECT MORE THAN ONE DEVICE" so I took the TV off and got the DVHS to work again but the HARD DRIVE (DMI) was unsupported (as expected)

Then I tried to see if my 6200 would send info to it. By itself connected, it says unsupported 1394 device so you can't do anything with that - no picture or anything.

When I hooked up the DVHS and 6200 cable box, it had the "TOO MANY DEVICES" Don't know why. since it was only 2.

TV and 6200 yielded same results.

I still need to try my Firebus software so I will let you know if that works at all.

All in all, firewire is good for 3 things.
1) going to a display for OTA digital only
2) watching and recording from a DVHS machine
3) recording to a DVHS machine from recordings on the HDD (oh yeah, I haven't tried yet but you can also record live programs to the DVHS as well)

and I guess you could also count the DV feature
4) can record from a DV camcorder to the HDD (but not the other way around)

Recording works great - very flexible and has great trick features for playback and editing as well as renaming and archiving.

TV GUIDE recording records an extra minute before and after scheduled time (I haven't found a way to adjust this). Plus you have the option to record a show once, daily, or weekly. You can also change the channel if the automatic guide spits out the wrong channel (in case your digital station doesn't rechannelize on its own. I even changed an analog channel to a digital one just so the guide would provide the right info.)

This thing is pretty sweet overall. I am gonna run out of space way too soon though. I need about 3 more of these things now that I am getting so much HD. Never thought I would ever say that (especially 2 years ago)

Keep the questions coming and I'll try to answer.

Paul

I don't know about your second question astronomer, but as to your first question, the LG is like a VCR in a sense to what you are referring to. It can be manually programmed like a VCR with you manually adjusting time length, channel, how many times, set a few minutes before and after airtime, etc.... Or you can use the guide to set up recording programs.

I'm still trying to find this in the menus and in the manual. I can find no way in the manual or in the menus to set this up without using the guide (which hasn't downloaded yet).

I'd much rather do it like the Samsung 165, where I (through a menu) set a specific channel and time to start/stop recording. Multiple programs are great too.

But if anyone can throw me a bone, I'm not seeing anything on this...

KornerKlub,

I'm interested, what kind of cable (QAM) signal are you getting? I don't get too many channels (especially if I have to split the cable at all) and the ones I do get take a while to tune up. My cable box comes in immediately but the signal is always bad or low normal for the 3410. Should I get an amp to crank up the signal or what? I really wish I could get more digital channels as you seem to get(otherwise, this is almost useless as a cable box).

Paul

Originally posted by bwiklem
I'm still trying to find this in the menus and in the manual. I can find no way in the manual or in the menus to set this up without using the guide (which hasn't downloaded yet).

I'd much rather do it like the Samsung 165, where I (through a menu) set a specific channel and time to start/stop recording. Multiple programs are great too.

But if anyone can throw me a bone, I'm not seeing anything on this...

You press the VCR Plus button on the remote. That will take you to a menu where you can either enter a VCR plus code, or manually set a recording.

Paul

I am simply running my Comcast off a tab that was installed for my cable modem because the signal was too strong. Other than that, there are no splits n the line at all (straight to the 3410). My signal strength is great for QAM.

In order to adjust the recording time (add time to beginning / end)... Once you have the recording scheduled, go into the Guide. Then move up to "Schedule" . Move down to the scheduled recording and press the Select button.

Got my 3410 late yesterday. Hooked it up initially only to the antenna, for Guide purposes I told it that I didn't have cable. I watched a bit last night, and then let it download the TV guide overnight. I let it do a channel scan and it found all of the local SD channels, and about 5 HD channels. Everything seems to have worked as advertised.

This morning I checked, and the TV guide had downloaded program info for ALL of the local broadcast SD channels and the local HD channels (including the weak SD channels that I had earlier deleted off the tuned channel list). Can I delete these channels off the guide so don't have to look at these extraneous listings?

Now, if I connect it to the cable next, do I need to let the guide know that I have cable as well? From the options it seemed that the choice was antenna OR cable, but I plan to try and use both. I know my local Cox cable has the "Basic" channels unscrambled in SD. I don't yet know how much of their limited HD offering is unscrambled. Will it include the cable channels in the guide as well and how will this show up in the guide?

I received mine yesterday as well. Hooked it up, but had little time to check it out. It looked good from what I saw though. It recognized my JVC 30K and the PQ looked better than my Samsung. I will check out 720p DVE tonight.

Originally posted by BenSanford
Got my 3410 late yesterday. Hooked it up initially only to the antenna, for Guide purposes I told it that I didn't have cable. I watched a bit last night, and then let it download the TV guide overnight. I let it do a channel scan and it found all of the local SD channels, and about 5 HD channels. Everything seems to have worked as advertised.

This morning I checked, and the TV guide had downloaded program info for ALL of the local broadcast SD channels and the local HD channels (including the weak SD channels that I had earlier deleted off the tuned channel list). Can I delete these channels off the guide so don't have to look at these extraneous listings?

Now, if I connect it to the cable next, do I need to let the guide know that I have cable as well? From the options it seemed that the choice was antenna OR cable, but I plan to try and use both. I know my local Cox cable has the "Basic" channels unscrambled in SD. I don't yet know how much of their limited HD offering is unscrambled. Will it include the cable channels in the guide as well and how will this show up in the guide?

You can remove channels from displaying in the Guide by going through the Setup menu of the guide itself.

If you add cable, you WILL have to "tell" the guide.

The LST-3410A is finally here, so I've joined some of you out on the bleeding edge.

The unit so far seems to work as advertised out of the box, which is more than many of the other HD boxes out there can say. The tuner chip is an improvement over the Sammy T165 in that it gets me seven OTA channels instead of four with my indoor dual RS double-bowtie antennas.

I can't speak about cable yet, because I'll be switching to Comcast very soon. My current cableco is a small, cheap outfit.

The Guide is a mystery right now, probably due to the cableco. I split the RF cable to bypass the box for analog channels, which are all there in the guide, but after letting the unit download overnight, every channel says "no listing information". This seems due to bypassing the cable box. For comparison, my plasma TV "info" button gives me brief program info (channel and program name) when viewing the signal through the box. But the bypass cable gives no info. So I'll wait to see how Comcast will act.

More troubling is the fact that no OTA channel program info appears in the Guide. The OTA channels are not even listed. I can program timed recordings manually, of course, but I wonder why this is happening. It appears I can reprogram the channel numbers in the Guide, i.e. force analog CBS to become 2-1 digital, but I'm not sure that's a good solution or what unforeseen effects it might have.

Recording works great in every way. I've also copied to D-VHS and back again. One difference between the T165 and the 3410A firewire D-VHS operation is that you cannot properly control the D-VHS (Mits 2000) with it's own remote. You must control everything through the 3410A. This is not a problem, since the operation is logical and simple.

There is really only one disappointment for me in the operation of the 3410A. When the unit is doing a timer recording, IT WILL TURN OFF WHEN IT RECEIVES THE POWER OFF CODE. In a home theater setup, this is a glaring error. If you use a universal remote to send macros to turn on another device (and turn all unnecessary equipment off) or just to shut down the system, you obviously don't want a timer recording to be interrupted. I can't believe LG did this, since they seemed to be thinking in terms of HT setups when they furnished discrete IR codes for folks like us.

Ah, well, life is never perfect. (But HD pictures can make it seem perfect.)

PhillyC -

There is really only one disappointment for me in the operation of the 3410A. When the unit is doing a timer recording, IT WILL TURN OFF WHEN IT RECEIVES THE POWER OFF CODE. In a home theater setup, this is a glaring error. If you use a universal remote to send macros to turn on another device (and turn all unnecessary equipment off) or just to shut down the system, you obviously don't want a timer recording to be interrupted. .

It does sound bad the way you describe it, but this is exactly what all of my VCRs also do. In fact I frequently use it to my advantage as the only way to stop my VCR when it is in the middle of a timed recording. What happens is something like that I setup my VCR to a football game while I go do a few errands. I get back in time to watch the second half, and I want to stop recording that game (my team is loosing by 35 points) and setup the VCR to record the next game while I go rake a few leaves. The only way I have of stopping the timed recording, according to the user manual, is to power down the VCR. So I suspect that LG just designed the 3410A to act like a VCR.

Hyrax,

I've used only Sony and Mitsubishi VCR's for many years. They both work like this: Power Off does not stop a timer recording. The Stop button does. I'm sure these were designed that way to make them a smooth fit into any HT. This is what I expected from the 3410A, since everything else in the design seems very well thought out.

But I won't let this one thing ruin the 3410A experience for me. It's an annoyance that I hopr will fade. The T165 was annoying in so many ways, I lost count. And it had NO discrete codes. The LG has discretes for Power, Output, and Resolution. Very handy.

PhillyC, when you get a chance, could you post the Pronto discrete on and off codes for your 3410A. I have the earlier HDR230 that uses toggle power control and perhaps these latest codes may work for me.

Originally posted by sr
PhillyC, when you get a chance, could you post the Pronto discrete on and off codes for your 3410A. I have the earlier HDR230 that uses toggle power control and perhaps these latest codes may work for me.

sr,

Look here:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=pronto&db=devices&br=&fc=

I believe the HDR230 has it's own .ccf file under Zenith. The 3410A is under LG.

I'm glad someone pointed this out. When I program my universal remote, I think I might just leave the power cycling for the 3410A out of the macros. It sounds like it's probably better to just leave the unit on all the time rather than risk tripping over the power toggle.

Hell, my Tivos don't even have a power button...

Llamas,

I've programmed my HTM MX-700 with the discrete Power On, but have removed the Power Off for the 3410A throughout the system. That way you can manually turn it off if you want. And the next time you fire up your system to use the 3410A the discrete On will turn it on if it's off, or do nothing if it's already on.

This seems to be the best compromise, since a timed recording will take place whether the unit is on or off.

BTW, get those output and resolution discrete codes. Very nice for experimenting with the various settings.

Originally posted by Llamas
I'm glad someone pointed this out. When I program my universal remote, I think I might just leave the power cycling for the 3410A out of the macros. It sounds like it's probably better to just leave the unit on all the time rather than risk tripping over the power toggle.

Hell, my Tivos don't even have a power button...

The 3410 will NOT download Guide data while power on, it must be turned off to get the guide info.

You're kidding... (of course you're not)

That wouldn't be a bad thing if it were not for the power button/recording relationship.

Well, I'll take what I can get, I guess. At least this way it's not a surprise.

--Mike

KornerKlub and all,

I got a lot more QAM channels to show up today. It still takes some time to tune weaker channels so I may have signal strenth issue at certain freqs. I found a lot more music channels including the ones (music choice) that have the artist. title and all. I had to find most manually since the EZ scan doesn't sit on a channel long enough to tune up the problem channels. I haven't counted yet but I have well over 50 music channels 6 HD channels and about 5 or 6 SD channels. I also get a wild feed when I use ON DEMAND on my Moto 6200 cable box. The same picture that I get ON DEMAND will show up on one of the QAM channels on my 3410. This will be great for watching on a separate TV (I just have to set up a remote extender so that I can FF, REW, PAUSE, ETC from the other room.) Unfortunately I can't see the list of shows to pick from on the "remote box".
After playing with it, the same channel comes in on my Mits Int QAM tuner. Very cool!

The nice thing about the tuner is once you lock onto a signal, you can switch subchannels without dropping the signal (so I don't have to wait for it to retune on weaker channels).

Paul

I have had a chance to look at mine a little closer.

Observations:

Much better frequency sweep response with 720p DVE than Samsung
Pixel Phase test pattern looks much better than Samsung
Bowtie does not look as good as Samsung
It will not show you the image as you fast forward or rewind D-VHS like the Samsung
I am getting many more audio dropouts at this time OTA with the 3410A
The DVI level needs to be set to Expand to match SIR-T165 calibration


Edit: The dropouts seem to be occuring in Variable 1 and not when I choose 1080i or 720p.

PhillyC,
You're right and I'm wrong. Now that I remember it, that is exactly what my Mits VCR did - power didn't stop the timed recording - only Stop did so.
It is most inconvientent that way the 3410A has implemented the Power Off. The more I think about it, the less I understand their decision.

Always something.

I haven't put up an antenna yet, so all I'm getting are basic analog channels from my calbe company. I was never able to watch these stations on my 96" screen before, but with the 3410A some of the better stations seem almost as good as a DVD. Certainly they are watchable. Even the not so good stations are watchable. I'm impressed and I've not even seen any digital or HD TV on the thing yet.

I am hoping that the weather isn't terrible tomorrow so I can climb up on the roof and put up the antenna.

Why is the freakin color blue????

EDIT: Hehe. That's what I get for trying to read and post in several threads at the same time... sorry. :)

Originally posted by merc
Why is the freakin color blue????

Huh?

I don't think he's dangerous. Just avoid making eye contact, and keep moving.

Originally posted by umr
I have had a chance to look at mine a little closer.

Observations:

Much better frequency sweep response with 720p DVE than Samsung
Pixel Phase test pattern looks much better than Samsung
Bowtie does not look as good as Samsung
It will not show you the image as you fast forward or rewind D-VHS like the Samsung
I am getting many more audio dropouts at this time OTA with the 3410A
The DVI level needs to be set to Expand to match SIR-T165 calibration


Edit: The dropouts seem to be occuring in Variable 1 and not when I choose 1080i or 720p.

What "bowtie" are you referring to?

I do get a picture on Mits D-VHS FF through the 3410A, choppy just like through the T165.

So far, I seem to be getting fewer dropouts. I needed dual RS double bowtie antennas with the T165, but now it appears I can cut back to a single antenna. Plus I've doubled the number of OTA stations I'm getting.

Haven't tried the DVI yet because the component looks great. Do you see a noticeable improvement with DVI?

Originally posted by Hyrax
PhillyC,

It is most inconvientent that way the 3410A has implemented the Power Off. The more I think about it, the less I understand their decision.

Always something.



Yes, the only reason for building in discrete power codes is for HT systems. Hard to understand how they missed the timer/power issue.

Always something, indeed. I just noticed that if you switch outputs (say to AV1) and then go back to component, the memory of the previous component resolution setting is not retained. That is, since AV1 out forces 480i, the 480i resolution remains when you switch back to component out. I won't be switching outputs much anyway, but this is another minor annoyance.

Nevertheless, this box is WAY better than my old Sammy and D-VHS setup.

OK, since the Guide couldn't find the OTA channels with the "cable - yes" setting, I told the 3410A I have no cable and disconnected the cable RF. The unit then downloaded the digital OTA channels. Included are minor channels I can't get any signal for, so the info must come from my zip code setting.

BUT --- just as with the cable channels, every OTA channel in the Guide says "no listing".

Are any of you in Chicago and getting OTA program listings?

Anyone with NY Cablevision getting MSG HD through the qam tuner? And if so on which channel? I do get several channels (at times) that I don't sub to , but can't find MSGHD channel just to see if it ever tunes in. Have noticed that if you toggle back and forth sometimes on a no signal channel, some channel does tune in.

Originally posted by PhillyC
OK, since the Guide couldn't find the OTA channels with the "cable - yes" setting, I told the 3410A I have no cable and disconnected the cable RF. The unit then downloaded the digital OTA channels.


I'm having a similar problem in that the Guide seems to only want to operate in an either Cable or OTA mode. When I told it I had antenna it downloaded the OTA channels, and then when I told it I had Cable, it downloaded the cable channels, but deleted the OTA channels out of the guide. My Cable has some programs unscrambled that I want to get from cable, but I prefer to receive the channels that I can get OTA through my antenna rather than through the cable source. Can I set the guide up with some channels reflecting the OTA and also the Cable stuff I want to get off cable?

Originally posted by PhillyC
What "bowtie" are you referring to?

I do get a picture on Mits D-VHS FF through the 3410A, choppy just like through the T165.

So far, I seem to be getting fewer dropouts. I needed dual RS double bowtie antennas with the T165, but now it appears I can cut back to a single antenna. Plus I've doubled the number of OTA stations I'm getting.

Haven't tried the DVI yet because the component looks great. Do you see a noticeable improvement with DVI?

The "bowtie" I am refering to is a test pattern on DVE. Here is what it should look like:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_3/images/dvd-benchmark-part-1-ve-bowtie-wfm-large.jpg

I used to get no dropouts with my Samsung. I am still getting them with the deck set at 1080i as well.

I have not component, but I will get back with you on which looks best. Not sure it will let me use DVE through the 3410A over component.

On my guide, I had only setup cable channels but the next day the last listings were the ota, which I never set.

Simple solution. If you want to tune to an OTA HD version of the same channel available on Cable, go into the Guide Setup and remap that cable listing to the OTA channel number.

I have been comparing component and DVI outputs. I would not get too worried about using component. It has its pluses and minuses. DVI has a "little" more resolution. Component seems to have less noise and no "bowtie" problems with chroma timing. I am not sure which is best after looking at test patterns, but HD video test material looks very similar between the two.

I even tried the DVI cable shipped with the STB to see if that would help "bowtie", but no such luck.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
Simple solution. If you want to tune to an OTA HD version of the same channel available on Cable, go into the Guide Setup and remap that cable listing to the OTA channel number.

KornerKlub,

If I do this, will I lose the cable channel in the Guide? It would seem so, although the cable channel will remain in the channel memory, just not the Guide. And what Guide info will the remapped channel give you - OTA or cable?

Another alternative appears to be to download the cable Guide first, then change to "cable - no". The cable channels are retained in the Guide, followed by the OTA's. (Doing it in the reverse order does NOT retain the OTA's.) But probably you won't get cable channel Guide info, since the 3410A was told "cable - no".

Of course, in my case, I still can't get program info for ANY Guide channels, only "no listing".

Originally posted by umr
I have been comparing component and DVI outputs. I would not get too worried about using component. It has its pluses and minuses. DVI has a "little" more resolution. Component seems to have less noise and no "bowtie" problems with chroma timing. I am not sure which is best after looking at test patterns, but HD video test material looks very similar between the two.

I even tried the DVI cable shipped with the STB to see if that would help "bowtie", but no such luck.

OK, thanks. I think I'll use component and reserve the TV DVI for a cableco HD box , which I'll add later this year and which may be more in need of the DVI connection.

Originally posted by spike4
On my guide, I had only setup cable channels but the next day the last listings were the ota, which I never set.

spike,

So you connected the RF for both cable and OTA, told the box "cable - yes", and both cable AND OTA appeared in the Guide? That does not happen for me, and KornerKlub didn't seem to get those results either, since he had to remap to OTA channels.

Are you getting program info for both in the Guide? Or "no lisitng" like me?

I just upgraded mine with a 200GB Seagate drive. It is a little loader than the original at times, but not terrible. I moved the jumper on mine to match the settings in the STB (single drive configuration) before putting it in.

Has anyone tried transferring AVX-1 recordings from DVHS to the 3410's hard drive? I'm hoping there won't be any problems with this. It's the only reason I haven't ordered a 3410 yet. I'm waiting to see if this is possible....Jeff:confused:

Has anyone tried the RGBHV output? I've not been able to hook mine up because I do not have 5 BNC to RCA adapters. Why couldnt they use BNC connectors instead of the VGA connector like most high end equipment uses. The bandpass certainly would have been better. Re. bowtie--have you looked at your cables and connectors. It is important on the RGB to maintain the 75 ohm termination consistently.

MrHifi,

The bowtie problem is not on analog. It is on digital (DVI). My Beldin cable worked fine with my Samsung SIR-T165 before. No bowtie problems with Samsung on analog or digital.

Originally posted by umr
MrHifi,

The bowtie problem is not on analog. It is on digital (DVI). My Beldin cable worked fine with my Samsung SIR-T165 before. No bowtie problems with Samsung on analog or digital. Are you saying that the 3410 has messed up the MPEG decompression, adding chroma problems digitally?
Perhaps the 3410 has some option to "improve" the video that it doesn't do too well on. What MPEG decoder does the 3410 use? Maybe its not as good as the one in the 165.

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
Are you saying that the 3410 has messed up the MPEG decompression, adding chroma problems digitally?
Perhaps the 3410 has some option to "improve" the video that it doesn't do too well on. What MPEG decoder does the 3410 use? Maybe its not as good as the one in the 165.

I did not look at what MPEG decoder it was using. The decoder is better than the Samsung overall. The PQ of this STB is better than my Samsung on DVI and component. The audio on the 3410A is has WAY more dropouts though.

I don't believe it is the decoder creating the chroma problem on DVI. It would show up on component if that was the case. I am only seeing it on DVI.

I do not see any options to improve video other than the expand mode. I'll have to take a look and see if changing that effects this. I doubt it will though. I only saw it changing black levels.

TooLittleTimeZZZ,

I did some more experimentation on the chroma issue. It is not happening on 1080i. It is only on 720p with DVI. The DVI level does not impact this problem.

This must be why I am still seeing excellent HD images. I am mostly looking at 1080i sources. However, the 720p test images on DVE look very good even with some chroma issues.

Originally posted by umr
I did not look at what MPEG decoder it was using. The decoder is better than the Samsung overall. The PQ of this STB is better than my Samsung on DVI and component. The audio on the 3410A is has WAY more dropouts though.

I don't believe it is the decoder creating the chroma problem on DVI. It would show up on component if that was the case. I am only seeing it on DVI.

I do not see any options to improve video other than the expand mode. I'll have to take a look and see if changing that effects this. I doubt it will though. I only saw it changing black levels. Since DVI is just sending the same digital video to the set that the component D/A converter gets, its hard to see any reason for the DVI to be worse. Unless, that is, your TV is scaling the digital input.

What TV is the DVI going to? If its an analog TV that could be the cause of your problem.

Originally posted by TooLittleTimeZZZ
Since DVI is just sending the same digital video to the set that the component D/A converter gets, its hard to see any reason for the DVI to be worse. Unless, that is, your TV is scaling the digital input.

What TV is the DVI going to? If its an analog TV that could be the cause of your problem.

That is not it. I have used DVI with the Samsung with the same TV and cable and had no bow-tie problems over DVI. The 3410A must be doing something wrong translating the MPEG stream to the DVI format for 720p. There is more to getting a DVI output than sending the decoded stream out of the player. I don't have drawings for this set so it is difficult to speculate what could be happening.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PhillyC
[B]spike,

So you connected the RF for both cable and OTA, told the box "cable - yes", and both cable AND OTA appeared in the Guide? That does not happen for me, and KornerKlub didn't seem to get those results either, since he had to remap to OTA channels.

Are you getting program info for both in the Guide? Or "no lisitng" like me?

Philly, that's exactly what I did. I didn't read the manual, just hooked up both and said yes for cable (was looking for msghd, so didn't care about ota), then I read manual and figured I did it wrong, not setting up ota first and was going to correct in morning, but when guide popped up ota were at the end, and with program info. Maybe depends on area?

Originally posted by spike4
[QUOTE]Originally posted by PhillyC
[B]spike,

Philly, that's exactly what I did. I didn't read the manual, just hooked up both and said yes for cable (was looking for msghd, so didn't care about ota), then I read manual and figured I did it wrong, not setting up ota first and was going to correct in morning, but when guide popped up ota were at the end, and with program info. Maybe depends on area?

spike4,

Thanks. I think I see what's happening now. I have a problem with my cheapo cable company box, but will be switching to Comcast in a few weeks. Right now, I can't get any Guide info when the 3410A is set to cable. Interestingly, when set for OTA only, the Guide downloads info for all OTA and cable channels. But cable channels can't be tuned because the cable RF is apparently disabled.

In short, the answer is to wait for my new cable company and then set up the 3410A the same way you did. Meanwhile, it works great for just OTA, which is really the reason I wanted it anyway.

You're welcome and gl Phil; have you tried to bypass your box and put cable directly in just to see what happens?

Anyone know how the skip works on this unit. I have a Replay that I use for watching most cable shows and it has a 30 second skip button which is perfect for quickly skipping through commercials as was wondering if this is the same way the 3410 works. Thanks.

John

Originally posted by jcg
Anyone know how the skip works on this unit. I have a Replay that I use for watching most cable shows and it has a 30 second skip button which is perfect for quickly skipping through commercials as was wondering if this is the same way the 3410 works. Thanks.

John

The manual indicates it is a smart skip function. Here is a quote from the manual.

During playback, use SKIP (+/?) to skip to the next/previous scene.
Smart Skip analyzes the video scenes and cues playback to the next scene.

Drag & Play is more what you are looking for.

Use drag & play to skip some fixed time intervals, drag & play will help.
Current playback position keeps moving while arrow is pressed. Playback
starts at the position when arrow is released.
During Playback/Timeshift, press arrow and release at the starting point
of the section you want to watch.

I'm not clear what this smart skip is. What is a scene? Is it the same as a frame? If so that wouldn't skip very far ahead. The drag and play seems like the fast forward on a VCR which is no where near as nice as 30 second skip is (if you have a Tivo or Replay you will know what I mean). Anyways if you have this unit maybe you can explain more of how it works, or if not someone that does have one hopefully can chime in. What I'm really hoping is that the 3410A can somehow be setup just like Tivo/Replay and do a 30 second skip.

John

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by jcg
Anyone know how the skip works on this unit. I have a Replay that I use for watching most cable shows and it has a 30 second skip button which is perfect for quickly skipping through commercials as was wondering if this is the same way the 3410 works. Thanks.

John
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The manual indicates it is a smart skip function. Here is a quote from the manual.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
During playback, use SKIP (+/?) to skip to the next/previous scene.
Smart Skip analyzes the video scenes and cues playback to the next scene.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Drag & Play is more what you are looking for.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Use drag & play to skip some fixed time intervals, drag & play will help.
Current playback position keeps moving while arrow is pressed. Playback
starts at the position when arrow is released.
During Playback/Timeshift, press arrow and release at the starting point
of the section you want to watch.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The "smart skip" is a little too smart. For example, if there is a conversation between two people and each person has a different background... then it will toggle between them. From my experience, if I wanted to scan past a commercial, I just x5 or x20 past it.

Is the x5 and x20 seperate buttons on the remote? Or is it one button that keeps increasing the FF speed the more you hit it?

I've had my replay for years now so I've gotten so used to the 30 second skip I'm not sure how I would like this. Most commercial blocks tend to be 3 or 4 minutes, so it's a quick 6 hits of the skip button (or 8) which takes 2-3 seconds and your show is back on. At x20 my calculations shows it takes 9-12 seconds to skip the 3-4 minute commercial blocks (plus it seems like more concentration watching for when the commercials end). This sound about right based on your observations?

I wonder if LG has any plans to add the 30 sec skip feature as it wouldn't be hard to do. Do any LG reps monitor this forum like some other vendors do on other threads?

John

Originally posted by KornerKlub
The "smart skip" is a little too smart. For example, if there is a conversation between two people and each person has a different background... then it will toggle between them. From my experience, if I wanted to scan past a commercial, I just x5 or x20 past it.

SmartSkip works OK on commercials, but as KornerKlub says it is either too smart or too dumb to be a great thing. It usually stops once or twice in each commercial and everyonce in a while extends past the end of the last commercial. I've been using the FF button more than the Skip. I never had a Tivo/Replay so find that it is easy to get used to.

umr-
Did you try putting the original HD in a computer and see if you could read it?

Originally posted by Hyrax
umr-
Did you try putting the original HD in a computer and see if you could read it?

I don't plan on it.

umr-
The 3410A's HDD probably wouldn't be readable by a PC, but I was just curious if one could use a computer to read the files. I plan on putting in a 300 GB drive once I'm sure the 3410A is working. When I do put in a substitute drive, I'll see if the old HDD can be read by a PC.
However, I am sure that a DVHS deck would be a lot easier.

Hi All,
Does anyone know if there is an option on the 3410 TV guide to set the left side of the listing for the channel numbers instead of the networks? It seems to only show the channel when you hi-light it.
Thanks
Al

I'm getting the channels on the left side but no program info. It is 3:10 AM in the Washington DC area.

Originally posted by MrHifi
I'm getting the channels on the left side but no program info. It is 3:10 AM in the Washington DC area.

Turn your box off and go to bed! The unit must be powered off to receive the guide download.

Originally posted by MrHifi
I'm getting the channels on the left side but no program info. It is 3:10 AM in the Washington DC area.

Art, I'm also in the DC area, and It does work, channels & program info. I get the OTA info for the local broadcast HD channels (including the Baltimore channels I can't receive) (and unfortunatley not including the OTA SD channels), and also the cable info for my cable company's channels (cox). The magic doesn't happen until the 3410 is left off overnight.

Does anyone know what time the guide download occurs and from what source?

Yesterday, I changed the cable source on mine from cable no box to cable with box, and the update took place sometime between 9:00 pm and 5:15 am this morning. I had left the 3410 turned off and the cable box on. Of course it could have received the info OTA, since I had previously tried it while telling it that I didn't have cable, and only with the antenna hooked up. It found the local OTA channels and updated the info.

However, once it went to the Cable box mode, the local OTA SD channels only show up via the cable box source, and not via the antenna source, which I prefer. The OTA HD channels do still show up way down at the bottom of the list after all of the cable channels. I'll move them up to the top of the list next. Then I need to figure out how to re-map the indicated local OTA SD channels that I want from the Cable box source to the OTA antenna source. Not sure how to do that.

I'm trying to send the signal to a SD TV via the S-Video connection while also using the RGB out to send the HD signal to my HDTV. Supposedly the signal is down converted to 480i when using the S-Video out, but I'm not seeing anything.

Has anybody tried this and is there more involved than just plugging in the cables? I was told by the sales person that the 3410A always sends a signal our the S-Video connection and I am hoping that is true.

I'm new to the HD game and wonder if someone can explain the sub channels, and how they work on the 3410A. In particular...

When I scanned my digital cable stations I got about 50 digital music subchannels (83-1 to 83-51) and 1 HD channel (113-3). How would I make it so that when I Page up/down I only have to hit 1 or two of the digital music channels. And why do I have a 113-3, but no 113-1 or 113-2?

Thanks

How to remap channels?

In the notes on page 30 of the Manual it states:
If the HD DVR is connected with Cable Box, Analog or AV1 is displayed as "Cable box".
[If] Cable Box is connected using "A/V IN 1" jacks on the HD DVR, you can not select Analog as Input source (is this both for analog cable and analog OTA?)

On page 20 in the hookup where it discusses the use of a splitter for the cable signals, it implies connecting the cable both to the cable box and to the cable input of the 3410 - but what use is this if you can't select the cable analog input if using a cable box? I don't get any digital unscrambled off my Cox cable.

This seems to be a limitation that will likely prevent me from remapping my Guide so that Local SD channels to be received off my antenna rather than off Cable. While getting them off the Cable box works, tuning is much slower and the Video quality is generally not as good as off the antenna, or as convient as using the analog cable signal and bypassing the damn box.

Is there a way around this?

Originally posted by Hyrax
I'm trying to send the signal to a SD TV via the S-Video connection while also using the RGB out to send the HD signal to my HDTV. Supposedly the signal is down converted to 480i when using the S-Video out, but I'm not seeing anything.

Has anybody tried this and is there more involved than just plugging in the cables? I was told by the sales person that the 3410A always sends a signal our the S-Video connection and I am hoping that is true.

I think I tried this, but it appears that only one output can be active. I'll check again tonight.

The S-Video can output only 480i.

Originally posted by BenSanford
Art, I'm also in the DC area, and It does work, channels & program info. I get the OTA info for the local broadcast channels (including the Baltimore channels I can't receive), and also the cable info for my cable company's channels (cox). The magic doesn't happen until the 3410 is left off overnight.

So far, I'm getting only partial Guide info. As of last night, I had info for Sun, Mon, Tues, and partial for next Sat, Sun, but "no listing" for this Wed, Thu, Fri.

And I recorded a program yesterday that's set for "weekly". It recorded OK, but now the entry in the schedule for the same program in future weeks has question marks all over it like it can't find next week's episode (which DOES appear in the Guide).

Weird.

Tonight I'll see if "the magic" happened for me yet. :)

My TV Guide doesn't work at all (Los Angeles). I get the "download failed" and that's it. Been that way since Thursday. O'well, thank God I can record via other means...

PhillyC,
There is an option for all of the Display formats except S-Video out, so it appears to me that there is no way to select it as an option. I sure hope it is always on.

Thanks

Originally posted by Hyrax
PhillyC,
There is an option for all of the Display formats except S-Video out, so it appears to me that there is no way to select it as an option. I sure hope it is always on.

Thanks

I guess I'm assuming that setting output to "video" would activate both composite and S-Video. Going to any other output (like RGB) would deactivate both composite and S-Video.

My setup has from the 3410A: 1) component > TV, 2) S-Video > VCR > TV. The VCR is a Mits D-VHS which passes through the S-Video when off. To switch to S-Video, I have a macro on my remote that sets the TV S-Video input, the receiver audio, and the 3410A "video" output . This gives me the S-Video picture. That much I remember for sure.

There is some confusion in my mind because my macro uses discrete codes form LG.

This evening I will check again to see if the S-Video is live while the STB is set to component.

Until then, this is a choice between what the salesman told you and my (failing) memory. I have a feeling we can't depend on the salesman. :)

Phil-
I have a feeling we can't depend on the salesman

Would that we could.

I am going to be a bit upset if it doesn't. It is not the end of the world, but I was hoping I could do things like tape shows via S-Video while watching them.

Can you tell me where/how you got the codes for switching output modes. Could be useful.

Thanks,
Tim

< I was told by the sales person that the 3410A always sends a signal our the S-Video connection and I am hoping that is true.>

No simultaneous S and RGB, I tried!!!!! What a bummer. Also, most boxes today allow you to zoom with a few simple settings so that 4x3 material on the 16x9 feed can be set to fill the screen. No cigar here. This unit is OK but as the days pass without a guide and the continuous need for stumbling accross features that are either so hidden or missing, I am getting dismayed. Add that to the fact that my unit had been opened by the person who sold it to me, a member of this forum, and you begin to see a pretty disappointed consumer. If your reading this, yeah I caught you and I'm reporting it to LG Electronics.

There is no record time setting like every VCR I've owned since 1985. I still have not recorded because the guide wont fill up. Too much automation and not enough ergonomics is my verdict at this point in time, 5 days into it.

Originally posted by MrHifi
[B... Add that to the fact that my unit had been opened by the person who sold it to me, a member of this forum, and you begin to see a pretty disappointed consumer. ... [/B]

How do you know this to be true? Could it not have been the LG upgrade that took place in Texas?

Art -
I maybe mistaken, but I believe that if you press Guide+ button, it will allow you to enter the record time, date, and station fairly easily. I've had no problem getting the guide to download and it seems fairly useful, but I actually find using the Guide+ easier. TV screens just do not hold enough information and it is too time consuming sitting in front of the TV looking for stuff.

Your 'too much automation' comment may be correct - I get that feeling as well. However, I put up an antenna today and I'm picking up stations from Maine and New Hampshire that I didn't even know existed. This tuner is excellent.

I've had the box for 5 days and am very happy with it - except for the fact that it doesn't do both S-Video and RGB at the same time.

Originally posted by Hyrax
Phil-


Would that we could.

I am going to be a bit upset if it doesn't. It is not the end of the world, but I was hoping I could do things like tape shows via S-Video while watching them.

Can you tell me where/how you got the codes for switching output modes. Could be useful.

Thanks,
Tim

No, just tested again. No simultaneous output.

Look here for discrete codes under LG:

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/files/rcfiles.cgi?area=pronto&db=devices&br=&fc=

There are discrete codes for power, output, and resolution in .ccf form.

Originally posted by MrHifi
< I was told by the sales person that the 3410A always sends a signal our the S-Video connection and I am hoping that is true.>

No simultaneous S and RGB, I tried!!!!! What a bummer. Also, most boxes today allow you to zoom with a few simple settings so that 4x3 material on the 16x9 feed can be set to fill the screen. No cigar here. This unit is OK but as the days pass without a guide and the continuous need for stumbling accross features that are either so hidden or missing, I am getting dismayed. Add that to the fact that my unit had been opened by the person who sold it to me, a member of this forum, and you begin to see a pretty disappointed consumer. If your reading this, yeah I caught you and I'm reporting it to LG Electronics.

There is no record time setting like every VCR I've owned since 1985. I still have not recorded because the guide wont fill up. Too much automation and not enough ergonomics is my verdict at this point in time, 5 days into it.

Simultaneous output is mainly to allow for recording, while viewing HDTV. Well, this unit is is a recorder, so I would assume that is while that is not a feature.

A simple press of the "Ratio" button will allow aspect ratio control as long as you are in a set output resolution (180i, 720p. 480p, 480i).

You CAN manually set up recording as I described previously (press the VCR Plus button).

PM me your setup and I'll see what is wrong causing you not to receive guide downloads. I have had a lot of experience with this type of guide.

Originally posted by PhillyC
So far, I'm getting only partial Guide info. As of last night, I had info for Sun, Mon, Tues, and partial for next Sat, Sun, but "no listing" for this Wed, Thu, Fri.

And I recorded a program yesterday that's set for "weekly". It recorded OK, but now the entry in the schedule for the same program in future weeks has question marks all over it like it can't find next week's episode (which DOES appear in the Guide).

Weird.

Tonight I'll see if "the magic" happened for me yet. :)

PhillyC

The download is limited in size. That is why you only got four days. It basically downloads today (day 1), tomorrow (day 2), the next day (day3) and then Day8. Then is then enough time left it will pick up day 4-7. If not, the next day it will in effect get days 4 and 8, as the previous day 8 became day 7, so on and so forth. Within three days, it will populate the entire 8 days and then maintain them. This sometimes is seen in large markets, such as Chicago, where the download deal with so much data.

Just keep in mind that each download also includes the last day of guide data, so once it is completed, it will stay complete.

Originally posted by KornerKlub
PhillyC

The download is limited in size. That is why you only got four days. It basically downloads today (day 1), tomorrow (day 2), the next day (day3) and then Day8. Then is then enough time left it will pick up day 4-7. If not, the next day it will in effect get days 4 and 8, as the previous day 8 became day 7, so on and so forth. Within three days, it will populate the entire 8 days and then maintain them. This sometimes is seen in large markets, such as Chicago, where the download deal with so much data.

Just keep in mind that each download also includes the last day of guide data, so once it is completed, it will stay complete.

Thanks, KornerKlub. This appears to be exactly what is happening. Today another day of info in the middle was filled in along with the "new" last day on the end. The manual should explain this instead of saying, "Guide listings will normally be available in 24 hours", which causes needless frustration with the user.

OTOH, although I'm in a large market, I'm temporarily set up only for OTA. It seems like it shouldn't take so long to download a few OTA channels.

Anyone tried this with a CRT projector? How's the quality of the RGB?

Originally posted by PhillyC
OTOH, although I'm in a large market, I'm temporarily set up only for OTA. It seems like it shouldn't take so long to download a few OTA channels. [/B]

The complete guide package is included in the data-stream. When you are setup for only OTA, the unit pulls just the OTA channels out of the packets. But the entire guide data is there being sent.

Anyone tried this with a CRT projector? How's the quality of the RGB?

I use a 50" Sony computer monitor for casual TV watching and surfing. I connected it to the 3410A via the RGB interface and it looks good, real good with HD material. Analog/NTSC stuff is pretty terrible at times and quite nice at others, but that could be my monitor. For example I recorded Shrek and Law & Order over the week-end and they looked much better than when I get them straight from the cable to my TV. They were not as good as a DVD, but it was close. Other stations and other shows often look terrible.

There is much more variation between analog stations when I use the RGB cable connected to the Sony than there is when I connect via component input to my DLP projector. Again this problem may be my 7 year old monitor doesn't respond well to the the poor NTSC signal. However, when I'm viewing HD, the monitor connected via RGB looks fine.

The thing that is amazing to me is how good things look when I take analog TV shows and put then up on a 96" screen using the component input to my DLP projector. Shrek was ever so slightly fuzzy in spots, but I could still plainly see the hairs on the donkey and the colors were good.

I'm hoping to get my 3410A before this weekend and had a quick question. I thought earlier in the thread it says you need to turn on OTA only, let it download the quide and then you can turn on cable also, and then have it get the quide for that.

If all the data is sent at the same time can't I just say I have OTA and cable, and then let it get the guide? Thanks.

John

Originally posted by KornerKlub
The complete guide package is included in the data-stream. When you are setup for only OTA, the unit pulls just the OTA channels out of the packets. But the entire guide data is there being sent.

jcg,

Here's what I've learned (I think) after much experimentation. Others here will correct me if I'm not quite right.

The 3410A asks you if you have cable - yes or no. If no, you can ONLY tune OTA channels and the Guide comes from OTA. If yes, you can tune OTA and cable and digital cable, and the Guide info for cable and OTA comes from cable. Confused yet?

In order to get Guide info when you have cable, you MUST connect your cable service and the 3410A in one of the three ways shown in the manual.

Now here's where I'm using my powers of deduction because I can't actually try some things until I switch to Comcast. I have a cable box with only RF out. It is only for unscrambling premium channels. I can bypass the box and watch all other cable channels. But --- bypassing the box gets NO Guide info. For some reason, it seems the Guide info can only be obtained when the signal comes through the cable box. It also appears that even if your cable box has an RF Loop Out, you MUST also connect the box's AV Out jacks to the AV1 In jacks on the 3410A in order to get Guide info.

Going back to your specific question, I had the box set for OTA only and got OTA Guide info. Then I switched to cable and lost all the OTA Guide info. (And, because I bypassed the cable box, could get no Guide whatsoever.) So I think you can just say yes to cable and you will get everything you need if you are hooked up properly.

Originally posted by PhillyC
jcg,
I have a cable box with only RF out. It is only for unscrambling premium channels. I can bypass the box and watch all other cable channels. But --- bypassing the box gets NO Guide info. For some reason, it seems the Guide info can only be obtained when the signal comes through the cable box. It also appears that even if your cable box has an RF Loop Out, you MUST also connect the box's AV Out jacks to the AV1 In jacks on the 3410A in order to get Guide info.

Going back to your specific question, I had the box set for OTA only and got OTA Guide info. Then I switched to cable and lost all the OTA Guide info. (And, because I bypassed the cable box, could get no Guide whatsoever.) So I think you can just say yes to cable and you will get everything you need if you are hooked up properly.

That's not consistent with my experience. I first hooked up with OTA & Cable - telling it that I had Cable without a Box. In that situation it got the info for the digital OTA stations (but not analog OTA info), and the info for analog cable. Then I told it I had a cable box, and then it got the Cable box guide info and dropped the analog cable info. The pain for me is that once I told it I had cable it insists that everything expect digital OTA comes thro the cable box - which is a pain.

Originally posted by BenSanford
That's not consistent with my experience. I first hooked up with OTA & Cable - telling it that I had Cable without a Box. In that situation it got the info for the digital OTA stations (but not analog OTA info), and the info for analog cable. Then I told it I had a cable box, and then it got the Cable box guide info and dropped the analog cable info. The pain for me is that once I told it I had cable it insists that everything expect digital OTA comes thro the cable box - which is a pain.

Then my el cheapo little cableco and their el cheapo box are fouling me up. I'm in a high-rise building that is dumping them in the next few weeks. After the changeover to Comcast, I'll redo my whole setup. Meanwhile, I'm enjoying great OTA HD. :cool:

My 3410 arrived last evening. After a few sidetracks and false moves, I got it all working (Sony 34XBR910 connected via DVI). The tuner in this box picks up way more stations than my Sony did using a Silver Sensor. The picture is superb, except that some of the local stations code their 4x3 digital as 16x9, 720i, so the automatic picture ratio is 4x3 with black sidebars. Some stations, when coded correctly, will give gray sidebars (less chance of burn-in). The only way around it is to either go through a long series of moves to expand the picture, or to switch to the analog output of that station. Without the STB, aspect ratio on the Sony was easy to adjust. The LG does adjust automatically between true 16x9 HD and 4x3 analog (with analog set to Wide). Just a minor pain. The PQ on true 16x9 HD is phenomenal, and recording is indistinguishable from original.

I also wish there were an antenna pass through so I wouldn't need a splitter if I wanted to watch analog while recording HD. I also understand that there is only about a 30 second window for the setup and programming to stay resident if a power outage occurs (not unusual in my area). So if one is gone for a while and the power drops out for over 30 sec., one has nothing recorded beyond the time of drop-out.

Nevertheless, I'm so far very pleased with this unit.

My thoughts regarding the LG Electronics LST-3410A

Positives:

The tuner is fantastic. It is so sensitive that I get everything in my area perfectly. Stations that were marginal but receivable with a directional, rotate-able, roof antenna now come in with good on the signal strength meter. It is a great deal better than my RCA DTC100. Just a guess but it looks like the buffer may be larger and so very weak stations take a while to lock but then stay on full time.

Picture quality is incredible through RGBHV output. The composite and S outputs are also first rate. Up and down conversion is indistinguishable from native on a DWIN HD700 3 gun CRT projector.

Negatives:

Waiting for the guide to download was a pain. It finally came down after I stopped playing with it. Sure wish we knew from where and at what time the download occurs.

The learning curve is enormous. There are so many things you can do with the TV guide that learning all the ways to record, skip, drag, modify listings, schedules and on and on… has taken me 3 days.

The remote’s buttons are extremely indistinguishable and numerous. You will need some light in the room in order to use the remote. Backlighting would have been helpful.

My biggest negative is that there is no simultaneous composite or S-Video when one is watching through RGBHV, Y,Pr,Pb, or DIV. This means that if you want to watch DTV on a non-HDTV set, you have to change the output selection, aspect ratio, and viewing mode. On my DTV100 I push one button to change its output from 1080i to 480i. Here I have to go through countless button pushes and menu settings. Bad decision LG!!!!!

Programming this machine to record is a real adventure. Would have been nice if they had included a Day, Hour, Ch, and speed setting like every VCR in the world uses. Here you have to go through TV Guide listings that seem to go on forever.

It will record only 8 hour of HDTV. Wish I could record a whole week. AFAIK you can not change recording quality for Digital channels, only analog. 8 hours just is not enough if you like to watch on the weekends.

Summary:

It is a great HDTV STB--Great capture and picture. The TV Guide recording system is terrible. The listings may be interesting for some but frankly I find it a pain in the but. The omission of a simultaneous or at least 1 button switch-able S-Video is unpardonable. Sure you can get there but wow, what a nightmare.

Art,

I agree with most of your points.

As to recording setup, have you tried the VCR+ button? You CAN set recordings as with a VCR. (You don't need the VCR+ codes, which is misleading.)

Recording time for HD is supposed to be about 12 hours with an empty disk. This assumes about 10GB per one hour of recording. However, I find that actual recordings of one hour shows take 7 to 8.5 MB each, which would give about 14 hours total.

The only suggestion I can offer about changing outputs easily is to incorporate a universal remote in your system. You can then program macros to do the job.

The tuner sensitivity IS great. I can use only indoor antennas and the 3410A doubled the number of stations I can get. Also, contrary to some comments here, the tuner has eliminated multipath dropouts on my previously most problematic station.

I think LG wanted to keep the manual as simple as possible, but we really did need MORE information than it contains.

Originally posted by Dan Kolton
I also understand that there is only about a 30 second window for the setup and programming to stay resident if a power outage occurs (not unusual in my area). So if one is gone for a while and the power drops out for over 30 sec., one has nothing recorded beyond the time of drop-out.


Dan,

This is disturbing. I know that power often goes out here, usually for only a few minutes.

Have you confirmed this behavior? I don't want to try it myself now that I'm finally getting caught up with Guide info.