You missed the big one...5 element vs. 4 element lens.

And "UltraVision", whatever that is. :p A badge on the front??

Matt

I have compared the f510 and the s715 in stores, and to me, there is a big difference in PQ and the amount of glare reflected off the shield. I have not seen a f710 in person, but I'll bet the picture is comparable to the f510, not the s715.
I'm a little worried about ambient light, so the less glare the better.

If you don't have kids or pets or anything that's going to hit the screen, you can remove that outer protective screen. That'll kill the glare for any RPTV.

Matt

2 cats and 3 kids, the youngest being an 11-yr old boy nicknamed "Destructo"! :D

Heh...I guess that's out then. My damn dog jumps up on the screen everytime he sees an animal on the TV. Good thing he's only 30 pounds.

Matt

Speaking of the protective screen mine needs some help. I have a 2 year old who likes to put her hands on the screen. She doesn't do it as much now since we moved to a bigger house. I had been using a soft cloth diaper and water to clean the screen. Now, after a year of greasey hands, I have this irridescent purplish haze on the screen that I can't get off. Its anoying to me, although my wife who doesn't possess the male HDTV/Technogeek gene doesn't notice it.

The Hitachi manual says to use a "mild soap". Mmm, I give up on what that broad term means. The last time I heard "mold soap" I was told that watered down orange cleaner works.

Has anyone used any of the commercial screen cleaners like Monster Cable's screen cleaner? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

According to the manual, the card slot in the front panel of the s700 can be used upload upgrades to the set's firmware/software. Does anyone know if Hitachi has issued such an update?

Originally posted by chrish217
I am getting ready to pull the trigger on either a tosh 51h94 or a hit 51s715.

While looking up prices, I ran across some new 51s700's and a couple of 51s710's.

I can buy the 51s710 new for $1549 with free shipping, which is a couple of hundred cheaper than the 715. But I can find no specs/details on the 51s710.

I am guessing it had a very short production run in between the s700 and the s715.

Can anyone fill me in on the s710? Particularly, the screen...I have compared the s715 in stores to many others and I think it's screen picks up less glare and reflections than other CRT's.


Can't say about the diff Hit's, but stay with Hit over the Tosh - better resolution on the Hit. Take an AVIA res pattern to any store and look at the lower right circle on each brand, in 480p.


Mr Bob

Nope, I've never heard of any updates.

If it ain't broke...

Originally posted by slick1ru2
Speaking of the protective screen mine needs some help. I have a 2 year old who likes to put her hands on the screen. She doesn't do it as much now since we moved to a bigger house. I had been using a soft cloth diaper and water to clean the screen. Now, after a year of greasey hands, I have this irridescent purplish haze on the screen that I can't get off. Its anoying to me, although my wife who doesn't possess the male HDTV/Technogeek gene doesn't notice it.

The Hitachi manual says to use a "mild soap". Mmm, I give up on what that broad term means. The last time I heard "mold soap" I was told that watered down orange cleaner works.

Has anyone used any of the commercial screen cleaners like Monster Cable's screen cleaner? Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.


Mild soap can be anything from liquid dishwasher detergent, like Palmolive, to liquid laundry cleaning stuff, like Tide.

Just make that you keep very diluted anything like this that you clean it with, so the detergent won't cling in the ridges, if it is the lenticular. Rinse well, with warm water. For a glarescreen, just try not to rub - as on the plasic lenses, you'll put thousands of tiny parallel scuff marks on it, if you rub really hard.

Never rub hard on ANY plastic surface!


Mr Bob

Originally posted by bigrig
Nope, I've never heard of any updates.

If it ain't broke...

True, its not broke but signal differentiation (i.e. not getting confused by multi-path signals) can always be improved. Don't know if that would require changing out hardware but it is something to hope for.

Hey all,

Never posted in this thread but it did get me to buy my first RPTV, a 2003 57S500 and its been great. Still is but recently I have this problem, it simply won't power off. I'm forced to unplug it. No idea what happened and no changes lately other than my new Oppo DVD player which I connected through DVI (first time using it on this set and yes I did disconnect it to see if the problem would go away). Basically when I hit power off (remote or on front of the set), it goes to Magic Focus then once it is done the screen is blank but still on. Hit power off again and it returns to my last video input. And the cycle repeats as I try using the power button, it just won't shut off. I've called customer service and they pointed me to a service center near me but it seems REALLY expensive, something like $95 just to take a look at it then numerous charges if needed. Pretty ticked too as I'm just out of warranty (expired not even a month ago) and they won't budge off it and give me a break. I'll call Hitachi again about an extended warranty but wanted to know if you guys have had this problem and/or possibly know a solution to this. I was just about to get this thing ISF calibrated too. =\ It works great and has not had ANY problems until this recently.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Both the power on button signal and the IR signal feed into the master micro IC, which sits there when TV is plugged in and waits for a command to be turned on. This micro might be going bad, or it might have just become confused.

Have you tried unplugging it for a few minutes then plugging it back in again? A power surge or spurious energy spike might have tricked the micro into behaving badly. Clearing it by unplugging it and letting it start over from scratch might solve your problem.


I have seen this kind of thing happen more and more as the units we all take for granted become more and more sophisticated. This would never happen to a simple on/off switch that does nothing but interrupt the 120v. power line, as used to be the case when I was a kid.


Mr Bob

Just a quick question as I can't seem to find it using search - is the 51S700 HDCP compliant?

Yes dvi-hdcp

I want to buy a Directivo HD HR10-250. I'll need an HDMI to DVI-D adapter, correct? How much are those animals?

I want to buy a Directivo HD HR10-250. I'll need an HDMI to DVI-D adapter, correct? How much are those animals?

Jason, brand new they come with a HDMI-DVI cable.

Matt

Gosh, I don't remember such a cable. I bought a cable to connect it to my DVD player's DVI output.

No, I mean the HDTivo. They come with a HDMI-to-DVI cable.

According to the manual, the card slot in the front panel of the s700 can be used upload upgrades to the set's firmware/software. Does anyone know if Hitachi has issued such an update?

My cable company informed me I should be able to pick up their unencrypted local HD channels with my built in tuner on my 57S700. After hooking up the cable to Antenna C and doing a scan (took forever) it mapped all the cable channels to include the local HD channels; however, when looking at the channel manager, the local channels are listed in a strange manner, they all start with a colon and look like this :08-901 :08-902. When trying to select one of these channels nothing happens, nada, nil, zippo. This peaked my curiosity and I called Hitachi Tech Support; I asked whether they have an upgrade to their firmware and sure enough, they do. My version is 1.20 and the latest is 1.26. The tech rep couldn't tell me what this newer version does, but he's mailing a card out to me. I'm going out of town for a couple of weeks so I won't be able to apply the firmware until I get back, I'll report what changes I can find (if any).

I asked whether they have an upgrade to their firmware and sure enough, they do. My version is 1.20 and the latest is 1.26. The tech rep couldn't tell me what this newer version does, but he's mailing a card out to me.

Hopefully it makes the fan quieter. :p

No, could be interesting, let us know!

Matt

Updated my 57S700 with the Hitachi firmware from 1.20 to 1.26. First thing I noticed was that one of my OTA channels that only had sound and PSIP info, but no video, now comes in fine (the channel is not broadcasting HD, therefore wasn't too concerned). As to the unencrypted HD channels from my cable company, they still don't come in. Other than that, I can't seem to see any difference. Oh yeah, the fan noise is gone :eek: They must have changed the fan speed :) Just kidding, same old high pitched noise as usual :D By the way, I checked the date of the firmware and it was Sep 03.

I just registered on this forum today. I have been registered on the ecoustics forum for quite some time, and have been studying TV's for well over a year so I may be a newbie on here, but I'm no stranger to the HD-TV world. I think that this forum has more valuable info in it. (hence why I registered)

I purchased the Hitachi 57F710S about 3 weeks ago, and so far I am very impressed with it. 1080i HD looks stunning and even 480p DVD material looks awesome. I previously had 3 Sony LCDRP Grand Wegas, (2 KDF-55WF655's and 1 KDF-60XS955) all three had issues, within my 30 day return window, so I was able to return them. I can honestly say that the PQ is better than any of the Sonys I had, and the price was about half the cost to boot! I was waiting for the new 1080P models to come out, but I just couldn't justify the extra money right now. I'm thinking that in 3-5 years, the HD world will have matured enough and the dust will have settled, so that we can see who is left standing.

I have found that turning off the video enhancement modes seems to give a better picture. I also adjusted the contrast and brightness using the THX optimizer. If anyone has any tweaks they would like to share, I would greatly appreciate it. Also, I noticed that this TV has tons of user adjustments for tweaking the colors, so is it really necessary to get into the service mode?

Yo, HD Fan!

Here's the "tweaks" thread - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=273639

And the "tweaks Q&A" thread - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=300466

That oughta keep you busy reading for a while. :cool: I would recommend the service menu changes for "red push" and to "minimize ghosting".

Have fun!

Matt

Matt,

Thanks for the links. I really have not noticed any red push at all on this set. If this was an issue on previous sets and models, do you think that Hitachi started calibrating the sets better out of the box? The ghosting you are referring to, is that a convergence issue? Haven't noticed that either. Maybe I shouldn't tinker with it since it looks pretty damm good, but I usually don't leave well enough alone. Also, I have used the DVE disc a few years ago that I borrowed from a friend. Is the AVIA disc supposed to be better?

I am having the same problem with my 2003 51S500 that Nesto is having. :(
Yesterday I notice that my TV was not as "crisp" as usual. I though it just needed
a little tweaking.
It won't turn off. It will cycle the magic focus. However the magic focus is taking
longer than usual to complete. I unpluged it for 4 hrs and I pressed the power button for a fiew minutes to discharge the capacitors.

I am a bit fortunate. I still have a few months for the original warranty.
I bought my tv with extended warranty. I still have 3 years warranty remaining on it. :)

I just heard back from the technician. The problem is the main power relay. It is fused together. He ordered the part and contacted Hitachi to find out if there is other work to perform so it does not happen again.

I just heard back from the technician. The problem is the main power relay. It is fused together. He ordered the part and contacted Hitachi to find out if there is other work to perform so it does not happen again.


That is a very rare phenom. In over 20 years of repair work I have never seen that one. Suspected its opposite many times when a set would not turn on, but never actually saw it happen, either fused or open. Not at the power relay anyway. At speaker protection relays, yes. Power relays, no.


Mr Bob

Quick question. Is there a way to modify the general screen positioning and size on a 57S700? For example, you know how on a computer monitor, you can move the picture horizontally and vertically, as well as widen or shorten the picture? I'm more concerned with the horizontal positioning. Also, if it is possible, can it be done to just one video setting and not affect others?

I have an HTPC hooked up through DVI. It looks great, but there is overscan. When I correct the overscan, the video card is using what it thinks are "centered" timings, but the picture is shifted just a little bit too far to the right.

Last night I received my 51S500 from the repair shop. Their was no other work to be done on it. They simply changed the relay, part# FJ00142.
I works good now, but I have to perform a dcam convergence. It just looks terrible.
I quickly looked in the user menu. It's back to square one. Even the geometry in the corners look awful. I will have to dig out my color filters, and start off from scratch.

Yes you can adjust the screen position in the service menu. You enter the service menu by doing the following: turn off tv, hold down setup/exit button and then press the power button, release the input/exit button after the TV turns on and you should be in the service menu. The V Position and H Position options should be on the first screen of the service menu. If the problem is with your HTPC and not with the centering of the TV itself then you will screw up the rest of your sources. Use a DVD Player to get the image centered using a test patern from Avia or DVE. Once the image position is set using the DVD player the correct way to center the HTPC image is to use Powerstrip or your options in your video card drivers (if they exist) to adjust the front and back porches.

Quick question. Is there a way to modify the general screen positioning and size on a 57S700?

Last night I received my 51S500 from the repair shop. Their was no other work to be done on it. They simply changed the relay, part# FJ00142.
I works good now, but I have to perform a dcam convergence. It just looks terrible.
I quickly looked in the user menu. It's back to square one. Even the geometry in the corners look awful. I will have to dig out my color filters, and start off from scratch.


A relay is an incredibly dumb device. It JUST SWITCHES. That's all! If your convergence is screwed up, they screwed it up!

I just had to re-set up a Sony HDready DV down in Long Beach where it had gone in for repair of this or that, and they had it an extra week because they had to "order a manual and adjust it" after the repair.

Took forever to get to the bottom of how unearly badly they screwed it up in there. Would have been lots quicker to do that calibration if they had just left it alone after the repair, but they had to go in there and screw around with all the settings, taking down NONE of the original settings. Caused me to have to spend double the time I was supposed to. Normally I would have to charge extra for that kind of abuse, but due to other factors, all I will probably get on it will be my regular fees.

Unfortunately, even I don't write down the before and afters of convergence work, and I would expect them not to either. But there's no excuse for replacing a RELAY, for God's sake, and having your convergence screwed up! An eeprom yes, a relay NO!

Just my thoughts, as a seasoned repair tech of over 20 years...


Mr Bob


PS - you don't need color filters. Hitachi uses a register in there that will isolate the individual colors for you. I believe it is RGBOut, or something like that. I always know it when I see it, once I am inside. Someone else chime in here...

Filters are OK for some things, but it is better to use color isolation when realigning a color decoder. And Hitachi's color decoder is capable 100% silky, linear - and I mean stunning! - color response once properly aligned with color isolation. Filters will only get you close.

Thanks Mr Bob,

I will definitely look at the RGBOUT feature! It will be a better convergence for sure. I use that feature when I set the color decoder with the red,green,blue block patterns in DVE instead of using the filters. I was not aware that I could use this for converging my set.

There is allot of road construction. Could the convergence problem be caused by being badly packed, bouncing around in there cube van?

I was not aware that I could use this for converging my set.



Sorry, I was not thinking of your using the RGBout for convergence. You can only use that for color decoding, etc.

The color isolation for convergence is triggered by other keys on the remote. I don't have them memorized, I feel them out once on location each time, having used them before.

The service manual will tell you how to isolate your colors for the convergence op.



There is allot of road construction. Could the convergence problem be caused by being badly packed, bouncing around in there cube van?


NO.

Static convergence POSSIBLY. Not dynamic convergence, not to the extent you are talking about. Not even close. You're not talking just about convergence, if you are talking about rounded corners and such, you're talking about geometry as well. Bopping around in a van ain't gonna do that to the memorized electronic convergence settings in your eeproms.


Mr Bob

I just performed my convergence. It was driving me nuts. I had company from out of town, so I had to wait to do it. I would not attempt it without being alone.
I figured out how to isolate the color within the dcam convergence. I hit the"exit" button on the R/C. It will change to the color that the cursor is set at.

It took me a while. GEESE this thing was off. I guess someone at the shop is laughing it up at my expense. However I could never prove mischievous behavior.

I just performed my convergence. It was driving me nuts. I had company from out of town, so I had to wait to do it. I would not attempt it without being alone.
I figured out how to isolate the color within the dcam convergence. I hit the"exit" button on the R/C. It will change to the color that the cursor is set at.

It took me a while. GEESE this thing was off. I guess someone at the shop is laughing it up at my expense. However I could never prove mischievous behavior.


Oh, well. If you persist and keep doing it over and over again until all your changes have taken - only the majority take, on any one pass on a Hitachi - you will wind up with a picture significantly better than it was OOB, even if they had left it alone in there while it was in their possession.


Mr Bob

I have the 65S700 and finally getting ready to connect my DVD player using the DVI. To save the effort of pulling my TV out of the cabinet twice, can someone please tell me what type of DVI connection this TV has? Is it a 24 pin DVI-D or is a 30 pin connection?

thanks
jim

Is it a 24 pin DVI-D or is a 30 pin connection?

thanks
jim


You mean there are 2 types of plug-in for DVI? I know there's DVI digital vs. DVI analog, but did not know there were different plug-in types to have to deal with. Have only seen the one I would call the standard, so far.


Mr Bob

Well, if you have a DVI-D only connector on your source or display and you try to connect a DVI-I cable it will not work. I experienced this problem recently when I bought a ASUS Nvidia DVI video card and a ATI DVI to VGA adapter. The ASUS only had the DVI-D output while the DVI-VGA adapter of course relys on the analog out pins of DVI-I. There are four(?) extra pins for DVI-I so it just would not fit.
For the hitachi look for a single link DVI-D cable. I have a dual link DVI-D cable even though the extra bandwidth is not used.

Good to know.

Portland's my home town y'know -


Mr Bob

How many have their DVD player connected via DVI as opposed to component video with their S500/700? Just wondering if people see a difference between the two?

thanks
jim

How many have their DVD player connected via DVI as opposed to component video with their S500/700? Just wondering if people see a difference between the two?

thanks
jim


I'd be interested too.

The last 3 CRT TVs - 2 RPTVs and 1 Sony DV - I have worked with looked the same on most scenes, but on lots of scenes looked noticeably better on component. In each and every case the owner decided to prioritize the component over the DVI, as the better looking input.


Mr Bob

Connected my Denon 2910 using component and DVI to my 65S700.......I can't tell the difference.

Connected my Denon 2910 using component and DVI to my 65S700.......I can't tell the difference.


The reason we didn't like the DVI on the Sony DV was that certain scenes were ghastly grainy. The component versions were not. They were smooth and sharp.


Mr Bob

Glad to see this thread still alive, I've learned a lot from these fourms. I have a quick question about my 57s700 (I've had it about a year).

At some point in the future I'll probably need to get inside my set to the CRTs. Maybe dust them off, adjust focus, or do the Duvetyn thing. But I'm a little wary of removing the screen by myself. Is it possible to get at this area from the back of the TV? It looks like the upper, angled panel could be removed easily, but I guess there's a large mirror under there somewhere. Is this a safer method, anything I should watch out for?

Originally Posted by shoboat90
How many have their DVD player connected via DVI as opposed to component video with their S500/700? Just wondering if people see a difference between the two?

I tried both when I first got my TV and a Toshiba upsacaling DVD player. I can't really tell any difference except with a resolution test pattern. The DVI input looks signifigantly better with 1080i input on the test pattern so I went with it.

Lately though I have noticed some noise on certain DVDs. I might try component again to see if it goes away.

At some point in the future I'll probably need to get inside my set to the CRTs. Maybe dust them off, adjust focus, or do the Duvetyn thing. But I'm a little wary of removing the screen by myself. Is it possible to get at this area from the back of the TV? It looks like the upper, angled panel could be removed easily, but I guess there's a large mirror under there somewhere. Is this a safer method, anything I should watch out for?






If this were a Pioneer Elite, I would definitely say DON'T GO IN THE BACK. Everything falls apart if you do. Go in from the front ONLY.

On a Hit I would not know, but I have taken the screen off the front of many Hit's, and it's relatively simple. Much more trustworthy than taking the back off and risking damage to the mirror.


Mr Bob

Thanks for the advice. When the time comes I'll try it the conventional way. Like you said I don't want to risk the mirror.

I should clarify when I said my DVD player outputting 1080i over DVI has more resolution on the test pattern than component, I was comparing it to 480p component. I don't have any component HD sources for a fair comparison.

Just a quick question as I can't seem to find it using search - is the 51S700 HDCP compliant?

How about the 51S500, is it HDCP compliant?

I removed the screen a few weeks ago to clean the lenses and it wasn't a problem to do it by myself. I put a chair in front of the TV to set the screen on while I removed the plugs for the autofocus sensors.

I should clarify when I said my DVD player outputting 1080i over DVI has more resolution on the test pattern than component, I was comparing it to 480p component. I don't have any component HD sources for a fair comparison.

Right, that's a totally unfair comparison. 1080i has more than twice the resolution of 480p, just in pixel density. Not to mention whatever advanced magic they do with the signal to control the ringing, which in HD is virtually nil.

This kind of technology was not even there in broadcast 480i, and 480p is synthesized 480i, whereas 1080i is pure high density bitstream, with 50 years of advancement in technology in its assembly, over the original 480i.


Mr Bob

How about the 51S500, is it HDCP compliant?

Yes to both s500 and s700.

You can get to the lens to clean without removing the screen or back. Remove the front speaker grill and the control panel and you have access to the lens assemblies.

You can get to the lens to clean without removing the screen or back. Remove the front speaker grill and the control panel and you have access to the lens assemblies.


If the lenses are dirty - and you'll need to shine a flashlight onto the lenses FROM THE SIDE, while looking at them from the front of the unit, to see - the mirror will be dirty as well.

Just doing one and not the other will get you marginal results.

Same with the deeper optics cleaning, should it be necessary. If you just do the tops of the lenses and the mirror, but the deeper optics have that characteristic layer of dust on them that you can see after the tops are clean, then there are 2 more surfaces - rear of lens ass'ys and the CRT coolant covers - that also need it. That's fully half of your optical complement.

Just doing the regular optics without doing the deeper optics if they need it, will also get you marginal results.

When ALL the optical surfaces are sparkling clean, the difference is awesome!


Mr Bob

PS - look down at your keyboard. If it is more than 2-3 years old, chances are that there are some keys that are sparkling clean, and other keys that are atrociously dirty. You didn't do anything to make them that way, they just are.

That's how your lens surfaces get after a few years.

A year or so along, and whizzing over your keyboard with a brush woulda taken care of it. Years down the line, a completely different type of attention is needed. Both on your keyboard and on your RPTV's optical surfaces.

So do you just remove the adjusting wingnut and pull the lens off to clean the bottom side of the lens and the coolant cover? I have heard stories before about people trying to take the lens apart and spilling the optical coolant all over the circuit board. I want to make sure I get the right screws.
I am thinking of lining the cabinet with duvetyne tape and maybe removing the protective screen soon. I would be nice to clean the rest of the lens assembly at the same time.

So do you just remove the adjusting wingnut and pull the lens off to clean the bottom side of the lens and the coolant cover?


OMIGOD, NO! If you do that, you'll totally screw up your focus on that lens, and have to start over from scratch! I recommend the Cantilever Technique if you do, but don't! You don't even need to TOUCH that wingnut to remove each lens pack!

Remember, anytime you change the focus setting, that changes the SIZING of that CRT's image. Resulting in having to redo your convergence on that gun's image.



I have heard stories before about people trying to take the lens apart and spilling the optical coolant all over the circuit board. I want to make sure I get the right screws.


Yes, please!

First of all, there is no coolant inside any of the 3 lens packs. It is simply air in there. The coolant is down below the lens pack, below the coolant cover. I think you meant "take the entire assembly apart", or "remove the lenses".

Second, there should never be a need to "take the lens apart". The only reason to ever do that is if you spray something on your lens to clean it with and the liquid runs down inside and fogs up the internal lenses. In that case you're committed to having to disassemble your lens pack, clean it up inside, and re-assemble it again with all the lenses - usually 4 total, per lens barrel - in the proper order and facing the correct way. Believe me, it's a trial and a tribulation you DON'T want to mess with! NEVER let any spray you use on your lenses penetrate the bottom edge with runoff! I learned that the hard way when I accidentally didn't notice that the spray setting was on STREAM rather than SPRAY. There went that afternoon...

Study the screw complement very carefully before you undo any screws, or yes you will get coolant everywhere, and if it penetrates parts of the board below that you don't get clean, you will have problems months down the line, when the electrolysis causes corrosion. I have seen some corrosion bad enough to eat away the legs of resistors!

The 4 screws that hold each lens on will be obvious it you look things over carefully. Each time you remove a screw, make it with a MAGNETIZED screwdriver and be sure to NOT allow any of them to fall into the circuitry below! Have your unit UNPLUGGED when taking out those screws. You may want the unit on when you are cleaning the insides, to see clearly, but UNPLUG it again when it's time to put the screws back in.

And DON'T mix up the lenses if you do all 3 at one time. I recommend doing only ONE at a time so you can't possibly get them mixed up. Each one is set, very critically via its wingnut, for best focus on THAT lens/CRT only. Yes, the 3 lenses are interchangeable, but their settings are not! And since it takes only a fraction of an inch of change in the wingnut position to cause them to go out of focus, to maintain their settings you MUST not interchange them.

I designed the Cantilever Technique for the purpose of TESTING the optical focus without CHANGING its wingnut's mechanical focus settings, BTW. This is the only method I have ever seen that allows the optical focus to be tested 100%, without loosening up the wingnut and changing the setting, to do so. If no changes need to be made, you have tested it 100% and found it passes, without changing ANY settings. Wingnut not touched.




I am thinking of lining the cabinet with duvetyne tape and maybe removing the protective screen soon. I would be nice to clean the rest of the lens assembly at the same time.

Good idea.


Mr Bob

Thanks for the tips Bob. As soon as I get around to ordering some duvetyne I will have to give it a try.

Looking forward to hearing about your results.

Updated my 57S700 with the Hitachi firmware from 1.20 to 1.26. First thing I noticed was that one of my OTA channels that only had sound and PSIP info, but no video, now comes in fine (the channel is not broadcasting HD, therefore wasn't too concerned). As to the unencrypted HD channels from my cable company, they still don't come in. Other than that, I can't seem to see any difference. Oh yeah, the fan noise is gone :eek: They must have changed the fan speed :) Just kidding, same old high pitched noise as usual :D By the way, I checked the date of the firmware and it was Sep 03.

Thanks for the report. BTW - How do you determine what version of the firmware you have?

Can someone tell me what the native resolution of the 65S700 is?

thanks

CRT's don't have a native resolution.

Yes, it does. Everything gets scaled to 1920x1080i.

Can someone tell me what the native resolution of the 65S700 is?

thanks

You can choose between 540p or 1080i.

For the first 6 months I had my 65s700 I had my cable connected directly to the digital tuner to get local HD and it worked flawlessly. I then got a deal from Comcast to get a HD dvr and cable for a year at $29. That just ran out and I returned the box.

I plugged the cable back in to the TV so I could get locals in HD. I did a scan and it got stuck at 79-1. I had to switch inputs then go back. Anytime I go to a channel that is one of my local HD channels there is a picture on the screen for a few seconds then it goes black. The screen kind of flickers almost like its resetting or something and it ignores remote commands I have to keep hitting the button to get it to change channels or switch inputs. I can however tune to a few of the none HD channels on the tuner and it works fine. I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it but when I returned the box the lady at the office told me someone had to come out and physically make it so I could only receive basic cable.

That allegedly happened yesterday morning so I tried to rescan the channels and now if tuner c is on an HD local channel it will not even scan it just sits there at 0-0.

I'm confused because I assume if the tuner was shot it wouldn't tune the non HD digital channels. Could Comcast be encrypting my HD locals now? Anyone experience anything similar or have any idea what it could be.

Thanks for the report. BTW - How do you determine what version of the firmware you have?
Use the remote and press the Menu button, select Setup, then select Upgrades, that screen will tell you what s/w version you have.

How many have their DVD player connected via DVI as opposed to component video with their S500/700? Just wondering if people see a difference between the two?Don't have a DVD setup with my 57S500, but I can report that component gives a noticeably better and richer color rendition than DVI from Sony HD200 receiver to the Hit. But this may be solely because of Sony functions.


I am thinking of lining the cabinet with duvetyne tape and maybe removing the protective screen soon.On the same day my 2 yr. warranty on the 57S500 expired, I removed the protective screen with wife's help. And what a difference it makes with no glare from windows, lights, etc.! And I'm glad we followed the precise instructions posted elsewhere on this forum.

Use the remote and press the Menu button, select Setup, then select Upgrades, that screen will tell you what s/w version you have.

Thanks.

I've read 90% of this thread. Whew. Just wondering if anyone had a general feel (or magic8 ball) as to if the new Hitachis will be as reliable as my 1997 model? I've never had a thing done to it and think it looks pretty decent with the DVE disk I used recently. If not for HDTV I wouldn't even be looking for a new one. SD, at least for the next few years, will be at least 1/3 of my watching and I dont do dvds or video games.

I'd like to think new = better but some of the stuff I've read (like big pops) would scare the heck out of me if it happened on a brand new tv. Though I don't want to buy 'new expensive' technology, I'm left wondering if i'm foolish to entertain this wonderful old technology that's been so good to me all these years.

I've read 90% of this thread. Whew. Just wondering if anyone had a general feel (or magic8 ball) as to if the new Hitachis will be as reliable as my 1997 model? I've never had a thing done to it and think it looks pretty decent with the DVE disk I used recently. If not for HDTV I wouldn't even be looking for a new one. SD, at least for the next few years, will be at least 1/3 of my watching and I dont do dvds or video games.

I'd like to think new = better but some of the stuff I've read (like big pops) would scare the heck out of me if it happened on a brand new tv. Though I don't want to buy 'new expensive' technology, I'm left wondering if i'm foolish to entertain this wonderful old technology that's been so good to me all these years.


I could take your set and make it look better than new for you, if you have treated it well and have watched it under videophile viewing conditions and normal usage all this time.

I am assuming you have never had any cleaning or calibration work done on it.

Believe me, after this many years, the dirt on the optics alone, due to the HV, will be making it a vastly inferior picture to watch, compared to the pic you would see after the routine maintenance ALL CRT RPTVs need every few years. I never get over the "ooh"s and "ah"s I get whenever I show my Before and After photos of a 7 year old Pioneer I cleaned and calibrated a few years ago. Talk about wide eyes!

You have no idea what you're missing. And what a dynamite pic your set is still totally capable of.


Mr Bob

Nice idea but unless you can add HD to this old girl..... :)

watched it under videophile viewing conditions and normal usage all this time.

What in the world are those conditions and what do you consider normal usage? I have 12 + hours a day for the past 5 years of usage and have the north view/no direct sun ever/ in the shade of a tree 13ft x 5ft window open all the time during the day here. And glowing 100 and 40 watt bulbs on either side of my sofa at night :)

I just want a new hitachi that will last and be as good as/better than, my old one. OH and just as reliable. That's all :)

Hi, I've tried searching through this thread several times and I couldn't find anything on the issue that I'm experiencing with my 57S500 that I've had for a couple of years.

If the set is cold, when I first turn it on, the brightness seems to get lighter and darker in the picture. It looks a lot like the screen is getting brighter in certain spots and then going back to normal. Not necessarily a flicker, but it is much smoother than that. After a few minutes, the picture is pretty much flawless.

At first, I thought it was something with the Red CRT since it seems to be the red that is getting brighter then going back down, but when you turn the color to 0, it still happens. It happens regardless of the input, I've even set it to an input that has nothing connected to it and it does it.

I have about a week left on the extended warranty and I've called for service on it before, but they have never been able to fix it. I love this TV, but I would hate for it to fail after the warranty is up. I even had the TV almost replaced with a Sony 57S655, but my wife didn't like the design of the box and the picture didn't seem as nice as the Hitachi.

The focus block has been replaced already and one of the circuits has been replaced also (can't remember which one or exactly what they did).

Maybe it is the Red CRT and I just have to convince the technician that is it??? I don't know.

I'd really hate to ask for an exchange if I can get this TV fixed, especially because Circuit City doesn't carry the "S" series anymore...

Help, please.

Personally I'd go for an exchange at this point. Get cc to credit you and pay the difference for a sony xbr sxrd. Most repair places will destroy your set the more they work on it.

Nice idea but unless you can add HD to this old girl..... :)



What in the world are those conditions and what do you consider normal usage? I have 12 + hours a day for the past 5 years of usage and have the north view/no direct sun ever/ in the shade of a tree 13ft x 5ft window open all the time during the day here. And glowing 100 and 40 watt bulbs on either side of my sofa at night :)

Videophile conditions mean NO screenburn, among other things.

Also mid level settings for contrast, or reduced sm settings and max'd user settings. Pioneer usually sets their contrast at midpoint as their default, so if that is true for your set, it has not been overrun on the contrast.

However, if you have had to compensate for a lot of ambient light, there's a chance you had to turn your contrast up quite a bit beyond the centerpoint. Did you? From what you said, the daylight getting in sounds not all that strident, nor do your nighttime conditions, with lights just glowing at night.

The hours on the set is another matter. I would consider 12 hours a day as industrial use rather than home use, where I would consider 3-5 hours/day normal.


I just want a new hitachi that will last and be as good as/better than, my old one. OH and just as reliable. That's all :)


Don't we all!


Mr Bob

Hi, I've tried searching through this thread several times and I couldn't find anything on the issue that I'm experiencing with my 57S500 that I've had for a couple of years.

If the set is cold, when I first turn it on, the brightness seems to get lighter and darker in the picture. It looks a lot like the screen is getting brighter in certain spots and then going back to normal. Not necessarily a flicker, but it is much smoother than that. After a few minutes, the picture is pretty much flawless.

At first, I thought it was something with the Red CRT since it seems to be the red that is getting brighter then going back down, but when you turn the color to 0, it still happens.


This does not rule out the red gun. It can still be intermittent and affect the grayscale, which is the passive/nonexistent condition of the color decoding. All colors are still in play in b/w, including the red.

I'd concentrate on that red gun and get it replaced if you can. However, that kind of thing can be caused by the red circuitry as well, and the red gun is not necessarily the root problem. If you have somebody in to look at it, be sure it has not been turned on and run that day yet. Techs need to SEE a problem to be able to fix it.

Be sure they extend your warranty by the number of days it is out of your hands if you do have it fixed, if not more, so you'll have time to test it out for a week or so when you get it back and still have warranty coverage during that time. An extension of 30 days beyond the warranty period would be best, since you are so close to your drop dead date.


Mr Bob

Quick question. Is there a way to modify the general screen positioning and size on a 57S700? For example, you know how on a computer monitor, you can move the picture horizontally and vertically, as well as widen or shorten the picture? I'm more concerned with the horizontal positioning. Also, if it is possible, can it be done to just one video setting and not affect others?

I have an HTPC hooked up through DVI. It looks great, but there is overscan. When I correct the overscan, the video card is using what it thinks are "centered" timings, but the picture is shifted just a little bit too far to the right.

I have a Hitachi 65SWXsomething or other (which if I remember right is very similar to the S500/S700 series). Anyway, I recently got a new upconverting DVD player hooked up over DVI. I had gone through 3 or so upconverting/dvi players and finally gave up for about a year. If I remember right, they all had this same problem. Anyway, is there anyway to adjust the position for JUST the DVI input? My DVI input is shifted to the right by about 4 inches. Hooking up the same DVD player via component does not have a shift. Or is this caused by something else? Thanks!!

got my 57f710S yesterday

Any idea why I can't have audio out of the "monitor out" on the hitachi while watching the HD tivo through the HDMI? When the tv is input from the sony it CAN be played through the stereo. So the monitor out is definitely working.

Is there some reason a monitor out wouldn't pass sound and only the optical would? If so, that sucks as my receiver is old and doesn't have one nor do I want to buy one.

Don't know if it would make a difference on component regarding the monitor out but I had tried a component just for video and the colors were totally messed up. The colors on the input matched but something was definitely wrong.

HD tivo is currently set to "no, play standard audio" not dolby digital.

I had to switch it when I first got the TV yesterday as i couldn't hear the audio on HD hbo. I turned it to standard audio and voila...sound on all channels thru the TV.

Do you need to hook up the RCA cables from HD tivo also? I didn't think that would be required for 2 reasons: HDMI passing audio and you cant put 2 inputs on the TV on the same input. I'm assuming HDMI AND audio would count as 2 inputs. Also, it didn't work when I had the RCA cables hooked up from HD tivo to the input 1 on my TV the first time I tried it.

suggestions?

got my 57f710S yesterday

Any idea why I can't have audio out of the "monitor out" on the hitachi while watching the HD tivo through the HDMI? When the tv is input from the sony it CAN be played through the stereo. So the monitor out is definitely working.

Is there some reason a monitor out wouldn't pass sound and only the optical would? If so, that sucks as my receiver is old and doesn't have one nor do I want to buy one.

Don't know if it would make a difference on component regarding the monitor out but I had tried a component just for video and the colors were totally messed up. The colors on the input matched but something was definitely wrong.

HD tivo is currently set to "no, play standard audio" not dolby digital.

I had to switch it when I first got the TV yesterday as i couldn't hear the audio on HD hbo. I turned it to standard audio and voila...sound on all channels thru the TV.

Do you need to hook up the RCA cables from HD tivo also? I didn't think that would be required for 2 reasons: HDMI passing audio and you cant put 2 inputs on the TV on the same input. I'm assuming HDMI AND audio would count as 2 inputs. Also, it didn't work when I had the RCA cables hooked up from HD tivo to the input 1 on my TV the first time I tried it.

suggestions?


You should contact Tivo directly about this. They have a very good tech assist dept.


Mr Bob

PS - on the component, be sure that not only have you followed the directionality of the 3 plugs, but recheck the color coding again. Sometimes the directionality is Y Pb Pr on one, while being Y Pr Pb on the other. If you just go with whatever you saw first and assume it is the same at the other end, you'll get very weird color.

You should contact Tivo directly about this. They have a very good tech assist dept.


Mr Bob

PS - on the component, be sure that not only have you followed the directionality of the 3 plugs, but recheck the color coding again. Sometimes the directionality is Y Pb Pr on one, while being Y Pr Pb on the other. If you just go with whatever you saw first and assume it is the same at the other end, you'll get very weird color.

I had assumed color goes to the same color but perhaps that's incorrect. I guess I do need to read the little letters instead of relying on color alone.

I have a feeling since there is optical out of the TV, they probably want to have optical sent out with HDMI input. However to me it makes no sense, not having an understanding of all this new audio stuff. I'd be happy with plain old analog coming from the HDMI to my monitor out. Apparently this is prohibited for whatever reason.

This does not rule out the red gun. It can still be intermittent and affect the grayscale, which is the passive/nonexistent condition of the color decoding. All colors are still in play in b/w, including the red.

I'd concentrate on that red gun and get it replaced if you can. However, that kind of thing can be caused by the red circuitry as well, and the red gun is not necessarily the root problem. If you have somebody in to look at it, be sure it has not been turned on and run that day yet. Techs need to SEE a problem to be able to fix it.

Be sure they extend your warranty by the number of days it is out of your hands if you do have it fixed, if not more, so you'll have time to test it out for a week or so when you get it back and still have warranty coverage during that time. An extension of 30 days beyond the warranty period would be best, since you are so close to your drop dead date.


Mr Bob
Thanks - I'll let you know what happens, tech is coming out Thursday. As long as we don't watch it on Thursday, shouldn't be hard to show the tech the problem.

Also, regarding the extension of the warranty. Over the past couple years I've accumulated a couple of numbers to managers in the service centers, so I don't think I'll have an issue getting it extended...if all else fails and I complain loud enough, I'll settle for a replacement. However, I haven't really seen anything comparable to this TV at Circuit City.

The LCD projection TVs (60S810 and 55VF820) both seem to have the "screen door" effect...and I sit somewhat close (about 8 or 9ft), so I'm not sure what to go with, especially if I want something 55" or greater...any suggestions?

newsposter - If you're not using a Dolby Digital receiver, you may as well run the analog RCAs from the Tivo to the TV and from the TV to the receiver.

Matt

PS - But you're missing out! Get that big sound to go with your big picture. ;)

Hey this hitachi sounds great enough without stereo lol. The surround do-hickeys they put in here gives a pretty good separation and volume alone. I thought stuff was happening outside until I paused the pic and it stopped. Pretty wild.

As I dont have optical I can only rely on people on here to tell me if the optical out of the tv is what i'm missing as far as hooking into a receiver. I do know there's no converter putting optical to analog on the monitor or else i'd have sound. I'll figure it out eventually.

I think i will try RCA out of the tivo right to the receiver sometime soon. But that's another input to set up....fun.

The LCD projection TVs (60S810 and 55VF820) both seem to have the "screen door" effect...and I sit somewhat close (about 8 or 9ft), so I'm not sure what to go with, especially if I want something 55" or greater...any suggestions?

As mentioned look to lcos technology for the benifits of crt and fixed pixel tech....Sony sxrd xbr ....go see it and judge for yourself.

Finally figured it out. After reading the manual yet again, monitor out on the hitachi wont pass through input 1 or 2 (the hdmi and component inputs)

So I wound up splitting the audio to my receiver, dvd recorder and modulator for remote viewing in the other rooms.

I just wonder the theory behind not letting audio out of those 2 inputs. (and probably video but i have no need to test video out of the tv. )

As mentioned look to lcos technology for the benifits of crt and fixed pixel tech....Sony sxrd xbr ....go see it and judge for yourself.

Yeah, I think I saw this when I was at CC a week ago and yes, it looked good. But I don't know if I can justify it to my wife that we need to spend another $2-3K on a TV.

Is it normal for the hitachi to make clicking noises when you turn it off? It's about 3 of them and almost sounds like a lightswitch going on and off real quickly.

Is it normal for the hitachi to make clicking noises when you turn it off? It's about 3 of them and almost sounds like a lightswitch going on and off real quickly.

No, not with mine....you might want to check this thread on the newer S715s - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=435759

Matt

The LCD projection TVs (60S810 and 55VF820) both seem to have the "screen door" effect...and I sit somewhat close (about 8 or 9ft), so I'm not sure what to go with, especially if I want something 55" or greater...any suggestions?


Whatever you do, if you plan to sit as close as that to a 55-60"er, be sure to stick with fully calibrated CRT triple gun RPTV technology.

I have not seen any fixed pixel technology that can match it, including 1080p, for excellence in line structure, silkiness and genuine - not false - crispness of image, and faithfulness to the look of pure, unadulterated virgin-shown movie film.

I have not seen either LCOS or Sony sxrd up next to fully calibrated CRT, side by side, tho.


Mr Bob

Is it normal for the hitachi to make clicking noises when you turn it off? It's about 3 of them and almost sounds like a lightswitch going on and off real quickly.


Probably just operational relays unlatching again upon turnoff. I wouldn't worry about it.


Mr Bob

Man so glad to see this thread still going. Been gone along time, Just enjoying my set.

I remember reading in this thread or one of the others the blue haze that shows up on a certain image in the test patterns from avia. I also notice it on the side bars for ESPN the seem blue, I have noticed these are black on other sets.

Has there been a calibaration for this ?

Thanks guys.

Man so glad to see this thread still going. Been gone along time, Just enjoying my set.

I remember reading in this thread or one of the others the blue haze that shows up on a certain image in the test patterns from avia. I also notice it on the side bars for ESPN the seem blue, I have noticed these are black on other sets.

Has there been a calibaration for this ?

Thanks guys.

I'm going to guess it is a grayscale issue. Do you know which pattern?

Mark

I have been trying all kinds of stuff on my 57S700 to make the dvd viewing more enjoyable.
I have tried 720p@60 ( which gets scaled by 57s700 to 1080i)
I have tried 1920x1080i@ 30 direct also.

I am using an X800L vcard ( HTPC).

I have tried DVI and component with supposedly great DVD transfers ( fast and furious, seabiscuit,matrix revolutions etc), and they look good (better than a 480P player by far according to Avia/DVE resolution tests), but not what I expected.

I have tried a buttload of FFshow settings/avisynth settings etc to make things better, but it isn't as good as I expected, or heard of on the HTPC forum.......
I have used MPC, ZP,TT2.1 etc... with all different settings, but they all look pretty much the same.

My questions are these:
Can the internal scaler by disabled in the service menu somehow, seeing that the system is analog, I would hope that I could feed it different resolutions without it getting scaled by the set.

Seeing how I keep reading that this set can ONLY do 1280 lines of HORIZ, why would I feed it 1920, isn't that beeing scaled or wasted due to the set ONLY being able to PRODUCE 1280?

I have tried all the FFSHOW resolutions, like 1920x1080i, 1280x720, and multiples over 3x, but they never really seem better, maybe even SLIGHTLY worse......
My vcard has been set to numerous resolutions on output(1920x1080i@30, 1280x720P@60- which MUST get scaled to 1080i@30 anyway), which if my brain is working, pretty much TELLS the TV what to see, so in reality I really don't NEED to TV to do anything.

I know that some of these questions are related to the HTPC forum, but I have tried all that stuff, and as stated, I am really NOT THAT impressed, so I figured I would see if anyone here knows how to disable the internal scaler, and if anyone REALLY knows what the guns/circuit in the 57S700 can REALLY do if NOT limited by said scaler.
I am probably going down a dead end street, as the set can PROBABLY only do what it's set to do, but what inside an ANALOG set like my determines the NATIVE resolutions?

This set looks awesome on HDTV, so I know that feeding it a quality signal looks mint, and as stated my HTPC looks MUCH better according to Avia resolution tests than my standalone DVD player does in 480i or 480P, but I am not seeing the huge difference on DVDS.

Sorry for the long ramble, but I'll try almost anything at this point.
I realize that upsampling is obviously what it is, and NOT REAL HD, but everyone says it is somewhat comparable ( cant wait till HD DVD/Blu-ray), and looks MUCH better....
I aint seeing it.

Thx for any info in advance,

m

Can the internal scaler by disabled in the service menu somehow, seeing that the system is analog, I would hope that I could feed it different resolutions without it getting scaled by the set.

The internal scaler will be disabled if you send the display 1080i or 540p. So, if you send 480i/p it will be scaled to 540p or 1080i depending on your VirtualHD setting. If you send 720p it will be scaled to 1080i (I believe you can also scale this back to 540p but I haven't confirmed it). If you send the display 1080i, it will bypass the internal scaler.

Try sending the display 540p. I use my Lumagen to send my Hitachi 540p when the source is 480i/p and the results are better than 1080i in my opinion.

This is also going to depend quite a bit on the quality of your scaler. You might want to check out a benchmark DVD like HQV to determine the optimal settings for your scaler.

I wouldn't say scaled 480i/p source material is close to HD quality.

Finally, have you invested in a professional calibration? No amount of scaling is going to help if your display has not been optimized. Hitachi displays are wonderful looking once properly calibrated.

Mark

No I haven't had it professionally calibrated, I have never seen the need to tbo.

I have considered sending it 540p from the vcard, but I haven't done so yet.

I have been happy with this set since day 1, have calibrated it to DVE/Avia, geometry is VVG, convergence is VVG, focus is the best I can get it ( manual and ES), lenes are clean, mirror is clean etc.....

I guess I just figured since everyone brags about these upconverting players, I should get as good ( if not better) performance with a VG htpc setup.

As I stated it DOES look SIGNIFICANTLY better through the HTPC @ 1080i(@30i) than it does with feeding it a standard DVD player at 480i/p on Avia/DVE resolution tests.
6.75MHZ on the DVD player is rather weak and muddled, on the HTPC it is very clear, and has NP resolving the lines.

Maybe I'm just asking too much of it, but from all the bragging I've seen about the upconverting players and their supposed greater picture I figured it would be worth a shot.

I use the HTPC for games and stuff too, so it does serve a purpose.

As stated HDTV is gorgeous on this set.

Thanks.

m

Maybe I'm just asking too much of it, but from all the bragging I've seen about the upconverting players and their supposed greater picture I figured it would be worth a shot.

It sounds like you are on the right track. Maybe it is just that - bragging. It is also possible that such "braggarts" are mistaken in the same sense that many people are mistaken when they turn the sharpness setting to 100% :D

If I may ask, can you describe the problem you are seeing by sending your Hitachi a scaled signal? I have to admit, I have no experience with the HTPC environment so I can't speak to the quality of the scaler you are using. I will say that scaling the content to a different resolution is not a simple task. I would sooner call into question the ability of the scaler than the display.

Thanks,
Mark

I am able to select 1920x1080i@30hz to my display from my Radeon X800L videocard ( and alot of other resolutions also, if the driver will accept them).


I played around with a bunch of settings since my last post, and tried 540P ( 960x540-str8 from the vcard), and while text on the desktop was alot better ( of course, it's progressive- all progressive looks good), I lost resolution according to the avia resolution test ( which makes sense for obvious reasons).

1 setting I tried was 1920x1440, which obviously was WAY too big for my screen, making me pan to find stuff on my desktop..

Funny thing is it was smooth as silk, and PROGRESSIVE!!
No jitter at all.....

Too bad it's way too big.

I did a custom resolution with powerstrip, where you have this box and you make the box the exact size as your screen ( I allowed a couple pixels overscan ), and the result was a near perfect fit.
It was interlaced though....

Im wondering how I was able to get 1920x1440 in progressive mode...
The driver MAY have been making a mistake, but Powerstrip said thats what it was running also.
I want 1920x1080 in P mode heheheh....

Muzz,

I wish I could help you more, but I know next to nothing about scaling on a HTPC with respect to the Hitachi :confused:

Sorry,
Mark

Thanks anyway Mark, It wasn't my intention of turning this into an HTPC thread.
I wanted folks to know what I was doing as far as the input to the set it all.

Old ht saying "source is king" ...and in this case 480i is whats on the dvd ...that's it! The real difference in disks is at the mpeg compressionist level and you cannot change that. The rest is scaler trickery and the best you can hope for is a smooth artifact free image without excessive softness. HD dvd/blue ray will be the next big step in resolution and untill then hd movies from a good service provider or dvhs/dtheater (I have both)are what is best. I think anyone who's telling you dvd looks hd on thier setup has seriously not seen real hd or thier set is not capable of revealing the difference. I still rent dvd and it looks very good on my hitachi with the internal scaler but certainly not hd. I won't buy disks again untill the next format is out. SW3 was my last 480i anamorphic disk and a fitting closure to the collection for me. State of the art and the best dvd will ever be. The s500 is a VERY revealing display ...the microdisplay people should be so lucky.

The real difference in disks is at the mpeg compressionist level and you cannot change that.


Except to get the Superbit version, if they have it on the title you want -


Mr Bob

Well thats kinda what I figured, but hearing all the gagas, I figured since I had a vg extra computer, why not try it and see what I get in comparison to my standalone Pioneer 563A player ( I know it's not the greatest, but it's not awful either ).

As I stated the htpc blows the 563a out of the water on resolution tests, and I am able to clean up the pic a bit with some extra processing power........
I guess I was just hoping it would look a bit better is all.

I should have figured this anyways, as I was always a garbage in- garbage out kinda guy.

I agree that this set is VG when fed a REAL quality signal, it blows my brother in laws Hitachi 50V500 out of the water on most things ( especially HD).

Bottom Denominator is crap, and you can only make crap smell so good.....

I purchased the 57 inch 710s in late August and have Directv HD service. As I was turning it off on Saturday using the Directv remote, there was a large pop sound like when a light bulb fries. Of course my stomach dropped! At this point, I am unable to turn on the TV using the Directv remote - the red power light flickers on briefly and then goes off with a clicking sound. However, if I attempt to turn the tv on manually using the button on the set, it works on a second try - meaning I must turn it one and off once before it actually works on a second attempt.

I have two quick questions. 1. Does anyone have any idea what this could be? 2. I was hoping to gain some insight on the problem before calling Hitachi - has anyone had experience with Hitachi dealing with warranty/service issues? Thanks in advance - this board was a great resource in helping me decide to purchase this tv and I have been very pleased....up until Saturday!!!

Well thats kinda what I figured, but hearing all the gagas, I figured since I had a vg extra computer, why not try it and see what I get in comparison to my standalone Pioneer 563A player ( I know it's not the greatest, but it's not awful either ).

As I stated the htpc blows the 563a out of the water on resolution tests, and I am able to clean up the pic a bit with some extra processing power........
I guess I was just hoping it would look a bit better is all.

I should have figured this anyways, as I was always a garbage in- garbage out kinda guy.

I agree that this set is VG when fed a REAL quality signal, it blows my brother in laws Hitachi 50V500 out of the water on most things ( especially HD).

Bottom Denominator is crap, and you can only make crap smell so good.....


Have you had it calibrated, or calibrated it yourself?


Mr Bob

Have you had it calibrated, or calibrated it yourself?


Mr Bob

No
I have set the geometry(which was off and a lil curvy in places), by using strings and a tape measure, and I have converged to that geometry, and check it pretty faithfully.

I have run through Avia and DVE, and the set does well in those tests.
I left the overscan at app. 5% for magic focus sensors.

How well does the typical set do on the reolution tests, especially vertical, My set doesn't seem to resolve really well at the 450 area, a bit splotchy there.
When feeding the tv through the pc dvd player at 1080i the horizontal
resolution bars are seen easily@6.75 MHZ- very clean, where as the standalone Pioneer dvd player does not produce the lines very clearly in 6.75.

The BIGGEST thing I cannot stand is blue halos on this set, I really think that any shadowing at all like that is SERIOUS BS, this is not a $50 tv we're talking about here.

I have tried manual and ES focus to get rid of it, first tightening the blue amap, then backing off the blue a bit to try and rid the set of these blue halos, yet they persist to a small ( but EXTREMELY aggravating) degree.

EDIT: This is easily seen by me everyday when I turn on ESPND when they have the picture cropped, they have the white and black vertical bars on the sides....
I have what looks like blue and white bars(not real blue, but bluish from the halo), my brother in laws 50V500 looks just like a Direct View crt- black and white bars(obviously- no seperate guns to deal with), of course he has his own demons with that thing.

I have tried the tweaks to rid myself of this to no avail also ( most settings went back to default), but I still see a blue shadow around white letters ( now that I messed with it a bit, the black borders are much better ( edge of suits in MIB for example), but the whites seem to have the blue Halo, especially around big objects where it is easily seen( seems like it's worse on the white edges now that I have defocused a bit, which obviously is making that fat blue BIOTCH even fatter........ grrrrr).
I guess I will have to try and adjust the focus a bit more to try and rid myself of these halos, find an unhappy medium........

I really don't get why the blue gun is so pathetically fat in comparison to the green and red( these newer sets have PLENTY of light output already), no matter what you do it is by far the fattest/blurriest of the 3. On my set the red seems to tighten the best.

In reality I would like to get all 3 extremely thin, and converge to a pristine picture, but it seems it is not really possible to get them all really thin and tight.

I was going to have Gregg Loewnn (sp ?) come down here and do a calibration awhile ago, but decided against calling him ( I believe he lives in Maine, and I live in Ma, so not a big deal).
As you should know, calibrations are not cheap by any stretch of the imagination, after spending >2.5k on a set and spending the time on it myself ( which I don't mind doing, I've built class A/B RF linear amplifiers from scratch, repaired TVs and stereos to the component level for friends and family- and I STILL have my B+K 465 CRT tester[ particle smasher heheheh ], which I ALMOST threw away a couple of months ago..., it works fine, so I just can't let it go!!), I would hope that I would not have to spend1/3 of that amount to have someone come into my house and adjust something.

I'm the one most of my friends and family call when they need something done, and it's been that way since I was a kid, I just learned how to fix/build stuff.

What you are hearing from me is just a bit of frustration, that is really a by product of Blue Halos, which IMO is unacceptable in todays day and age, and especially when one plunks down >2.5k (almost 2 years ago).

The set looks great on HD, SD is ok depending on the source of course, these thoughts have not changed since day one.

Sorry for the ramble.........

You're sitting pretty close (as I do). Do you wear glasses(as I do)? A byproduct of the 3 gun rp design for me is when I move my head left to right, up and down ...I see the blue gun fringe where I move my head. My understanding is the close viewing distance and aspherical abberation of glasses cause this to happen ... no real flaw that can be adjusted out. The fix for that is eye surgery (I'm thinking about it). BTW do you have measurements for the string jig to rebuild the geometry/convergence? That's my next project.

Thanks and Cheers,
Paul

I actually do have glasses, but haven't worn them in at least 9 months.
I am not going to kill my eyes further by wearing them all the time, and I didn't need them for everything anyways, my sight is not that bad, just not perfect ( obviously it's good enough to see that halo !!).
The person to get the measurments from is someone like gambrelw, I didn't make a jig, if I remember correctly what I did was look at the screen and measure what looked normal in dcam in several sections, and fixing the stuff that was wobbly, and wavey, I taped strings in tight vertical and horizontal rows, and did geomtry to that, but I cannot remember the measurements offhand, as I did the geomtry well over a year ago ( never wrtote them down.... DOH ).

I didn't do MAJOR work to mine, but black bars weren't str8 in some sections in both vertical or horizontal, and my eyes would focus on the anomaly making me crazy.

My geometry may not be 100% perfect, but it is pretty close, and MUCH better than it was OOTB
There is nothing that I see that looks out of shape, even resolution tests look fine, dcam looks fine etc...
There are jigs available commercially.

The person to get the measurments from is someone like gambrelw

Bill can probably get you a template. I purchased one and it is immensely useful.

The measurements are in the service manual I believe.

Mark

BTW do you have measurements for the string jig to rebuild the geometry/convergence? That's my next project.

Thanks and Cheers,
Paul
See the attachment in my post here - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4934284&&#post4934284

:)

Matt

Man so glad to see this thread still going. Been gone along time, Just enjoying my set.

I remember reading in this thread or one of the others the blue haze that shows up on a certain image in the test patterns from avia. I also notice it on the side bars for ESPN the seem blue, I have noticed these are black on other sets.

Has there been a calibaration for this ?

Thanks guys.

I'm going to guess it is a grayscale issue. Do you know which pattern?

Mark


I will have to go through Avia again.. Had not had time recently. It also shows up on the bars in ESPN during Non HD programming. It is when there are vertical black lines close together. I want to say it was discussed in this thread a while back.

I will have to go through Avia again.. Had not had time recently. It also shows up on the bars in ESPN during Non HD programming. It is when there are vertical black lines close together. I want to say it was discussed in this thread a while back.

Way back in post #368!! ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3405474&&#post3405474

I will have to go through Avia again.. Had not had time recently. It also shows up on the bars in ESPN during Non HD programming. It is when there are vertical black lines close together. I want to say it was discussed in this thread a while back.

Have you tried reducing SRTGA0? I can't recall what mine is set to off the top of my head, but I know if I turn it up too high that I do get severe false contouring on the Avia resolution patterns. I'll have to go back and see.

Mark

Way back in post #368!! ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3405474&&#post3405474

Yes this was it. I was very active on this a while back and gave up on it. Now that I have noticed it on ESPN when they are not broadcasting HD it is becomming annoying. I also found the things I have tried in the past. I will proceed reviewing these threads and see where I left off.

Thanks very much.

Have you tried reducing SRTGA0? I can't recall what mine is set to off the top of my head, but I know if I turn it up too high that I do get severe false contouring on the Avia resolution patterns. I'll have to go back and see.

Mark


Yes I have adjusted SRTGA0 in the past, I also do not remember where I have left all my settings. Maybe after I put my daughter to bed tonight I will venture back in the ISF menu and see what things are set to.

thanks

I just went and checked mine is set to 0x1F. If I take it down to 0 it does minimize the blue tint, however seems I lose some sharpness. I can try this and try to increase sharpness. I would love to know where you have your set.

Way back in post #368!! ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=3405474&&#post3405474


Thats the EXACT issue I am having with my set, high frequency vertical lines like the ones in that post, and SPECIFICALLY the reference to NON-HD espn content.

I remember trying the SRTGA0 in the past myself, and I found what Injaneer found to be the dealio there.........

Thanks - I'll let you know what happens, tech is coming out Thursday. As long as we don't watch it on Thursday, shouldn't be hard to show the tech the problem.

Also, regarding the extension of the warranty. Over the past couple years I've accumulated a couple of numbers to managers in the service centers, so I don't think I'll have an issue getting it extended...if all else fails and I complain loud enough, I'll settle for a replacement. However, I haven't really seen anything comparable to this TV at Circuit City.

The LCD projection TVs (60S810 and 55VF820) both seem to have the "screen door" effect...and I sit somewhat close (about 8 or 9ft), so I'm not sure what to go with, especially if I want something 55" or greater...any suggestions?

Ok, seems like changing the red gun did the trick. Well, at least it looked good yesterday. I'll try again tonight when it is truly cold.

Thanks for all of your help.

Thats the EXACT issue I am having with my set, high frequency vertical lines like the ones in that post, and SPECIFICALLY the reference to NON-HD espn content.

I remember trying the SRTGA0 in the past myself, and I found what Injaneer found to be the dealio there.........


Yes I was able to tone mine down quite a bit last night when I moved srgta0 down to like 0x05 or something. Then and went back through and refocused/adjusted greyscale (eyeball)/and adjusted my colors and sharpness. It looked good late last night after I finished but I was pretty tired. I will go and watch some tv no and see if I like the results.

But I am not sure I like it. The sharpness is down, now I must increase the sharpness to compensate and it never seems as nice. I have moved it back up to around 0x10. However I still have the multiburst issue.

Looks like I will have to try and short out one of the inductors on the blue CRT board. That seems to be the only fix I have seen.

http://www.***************.com/htsthreads/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/553828/page/1/fpart/5/vc/1

I saw that Jason shorted that choke, but I haven't seen anyone try and disable that network ( only on the blue card).
I looked over the schematic of the drive boards (thanks to Chuck Williams), and there definitely is an additional 3 transistor circuit that is not on the other drive cards.
I think I'm gonna unplug my TV tonight when I go to bed, and take the card off the gun tommorrow after work and take a look at it.

I would like to see what happens when that network is completely disconnected, which would actually require more than removal of that jumper.
The additional circuit attaches to 4 points to the original circuit board ( the ones on red and green), so I'm not certain that just removing that jumper will do the trick.

Turned the tv on today and POP and only sound no pic. Couldn't turn off using my remote nor change the volume etc. Had to use the TV button...waited 30 seconds after getting it turned off then turned it on. No apparent ill effects but VERY disconcerting. Is this normal for these tvs? I hope not as it's 30 days old!

Very common, static discharge. Will happen a few times in the first 6-8 months. Keep an eye on the picture though. I had a pop and the green tube started to flicker and needed replacement.

wow what causes the static? I have high humidity in my house and never even get shocks lol ;) I'm assuming that there was no picture is a safety feature of sorts?

What I recall is there are small metal particles inside the tubes left over from the manufacturing process that cause small arcing to occur internally , these burn off over time.

Does anyone have experience with optical from HDtivo to the newer hitachi CRT RPTV? I've already discovered the TV won't output audio to the monitor out from input 1, which is the HDMI (but it doesn't work thru composite on input 1 either), so i dont want to go out and buy an optical cable if the sound will only work through the TV. Receiver doesn't have optical so I was hoping if i hooked up optical to the TV that it may pass it on the tv's monitor out. I'm happy just to get stereo from the monitor out to the receiver.

Does anyone have experience with optical from HDtivo to the newer hitachi CRT RPTV? I've already discovered the TV won't output audio to the monitor out from input 1, which is the HDMI (but it doesn't work thru composite on input 1 either), so i dont want to go out and buy an optical cable if the sound will only work through the TV. Receiver doesn't have optical so I was hoping if i hooked up optical to the TV that it may pass it on the tv's monitor out. I'm happy just to get stereo from the monitor out to the receiver.



The only reason for optical over analog is for the digital surround sound. If your set has enough OPs for all the speakers involved, go for it. You can always return an optical cable.

If you just want stereo, analog is fine. Audiophiles still like analog better than digital, and I could show you some horrendously expensive analog cables out there to prove it.


Mr Bob

Yes you can adjust the screen position in the service menu. You enter the service menu by doing the following: turn off tv, hold down setup/exit button and then press the power button, release the input/exit button after the TV turns on and you should be in the service menu. The V Position and H Position options should be on the first screen of the service menu. If the problem is with your HTPC and not with the centering of the TV itself then you will screw up the rest of your sources. Use a DVD Player to get the image centered using a test patern from Avia or DVE. Once the image position is set using the DVD player the correct way to center the HTPC image is to use Powerstrip or your options in your video card drivers (if they exist) to adjust the front and back porches.

I just wanted to thank Rader for this response. I forgot about this thread and finally came back to see if someone answered the question. I've been using Powerstrip, I'm a little afraid to fiddle with the settings if it affects all video inputs. But maybe I will test it with DVE, I think I have that laying around somewhere.

Thanks again for your great response, I appreciate it.

I just wanted to thank Rader for this response. I forgot about this thread and finally came back to see if someone answered the question. I've been using Powerstrip, I'm a little afraid to fiddle with the settings if it affects all video inputs. But maybe I will test it with DVE, I think I have that laying around somewhere.

Thanks again for your great response, I appreciate it.


That will cover you for DVD, but not for HD. For HD, you have to use an actual true HD image - not a cheesy upconvert! Nor a true rendition of a 2.35:1 movie, which would produce t/b black bars.

To see your edges you have to take in the sizing, then restore it back to the proper overscan. If that overscan is not what you started with, your pic will be screwed around with.

If you are using HTPC, it's best to use the image sent in by a valid HD STB for your display - like cable or sattelite or OTA, borrow one if you have to - and tune your HTPC accordingly.


Mr Bob

has anyone used their firewire connections on their *700's with anything other than a dvhs unit?

I bought a RCA DVR2160, and for some reason, the TV does not see the RCA.

I've upgraded the TV's firmware, but it didn't help at all. Any ideas? I've called RCA and they were no help. I called Hitachi and the customer service said that there's nothing they can do (they do basic troubleshooting and that's it)

I'll be calling Hit. customer relations next to see if I can escalate the issue a bit.

Well, at least I can still use the dvhs unit to record HD.

thanks in advance.

I'm looking for opinions on what you consider a good price to pay for a 2yr old 65s700 in good shape. I'm considering buying a buddy's but I'm not sure what to offer.



,Thanks for the help

We're at a strange place for rpcrt hd sets, very cheap new so used should be way less. BUT this is an increadible bargain since the picture quality is as good as the very expensive microdisplays (ie sxrd). See if there is anything on the refurb site uecweb as a point of reference for pricing. Check the set for burn in and check contrast setting to be sure it hasnt spent 2 years in torch mode.

Enjoy

Maybe 1/2 the cost of when it was new? Twelve or thirteen hundred?

But I'm a cheap bastard. :P

Matt

We're at a strange place for rpcrt hd sets, very cheap new so used should be way less. BUT this is an increadible bargain since the picture quality is as good as the very expensive microdisplays (ie sxrd). See if there is anything on the refurb site iecweb as a point of reference for pricing. Check the set for burn in and check contrast setting to be sure it hasnt spent 2 years in torch mode.

Enjoy

Are you saying the s700 series is as good as the latest micro-displays? Wait, that is what you said. Good to know there are still a few people out there that see the benefit of CRT displays :)

Mark

Are you saying the s700 series is as good as the latest micro-displays? Wait, that is what you said. Good to know there are still a few people out there that see the benefit of CRT displays :)

Mark


I second that emotion. I don't care if we are a dying breed, they will have to pry my year 2000 720p-native-equipped Panny 65" CRT RPTV out of my cold, dead hands...


Mr Bob

Ok, seems like changing the red gun did the trick. Well, at least it looked good yesterday. I'll try again tonight when it is truly cold.

Thanks for all of your help.
Ok, now the latest issue....

When I turn on the TV, the screen is all red with a few white lines going every which way on the screen. After about 5 seconds, the TV shuts off. Anyone experience this problem or have any idea what this might be related to?

BTW - shortly after the red crt was replaced (like right after), the convergence would not stay set and seemed to change without even jarring the TV. So, CC had sent a tech out and he said I needed a new convergence block. Do you think this is related to the issue above? They are scheduled to replace that at some point...

I'm really trying to push for a replacement now as I feel like this TV is just a big lemon.

Thanks for any info you can provide.

Hi Folks,

I just purchased a 57S715 off of the UEC website. The set arrived yesterday and it is great! It is a little scratched up but nothing that I cannot live with.

So far the picture quality is very nice. I used the tweak threads along with my Avia disc to bring contrast and brightness way down and to tweak the colors in the ISF menu.

However there is a geometry problem that is driving me nuts. My 4:3 bars are NOT even! The left bar is bigger than the right bar, by about an inch.

Since I do not have a 16:9 disc (Avia is 4:3 right?) I did not want to mess with anything just yet before asking.

Is this as simple as adjusting the HPOS adjustment in the Service menu?

Overall my geometry is OK, but I do notice a little bit of tipping which I will fix in a few weeks.

Also, what would one reccommend for checking for screen burn in since this is a refurb? I assume Hitachi would not let it out of their hands if it was bad, but since I have a 30 day warranty I need to make sure all is well. Would a white screen be good? I would think there must be something on Avia to check for this.

Thanks for your help and long live CRT...I was close to buying an SXRD but just could not justify the price for the issues it is having.

Chris

Ok, now the latest issue....

When I turn on the TV, the screen is all red with a few white lines going every which way on the screen. After about 5 seconds, the TV shuts off. Anyone experience this problem or have any idea what this might be related to?

BTW - shortly after the red crt was replaced (like right after), the convergence would not stay set and seemed to change without even jarring the TV. So, CC had sent a tech out and he said I needed a new convergence block. Do you think this is related to the issue above? They are scheduled to replace that at some point...

I'm really trying to push for a replacement now as I feel like this TV is just a big lemon.

Thanks for any info you can provide.


Convergence uses a board, not a block. You may be referring to the focus block, the only "block" in there.

The convergence ICs in these CRT RPTVs are known for going intermittent because of cold solder joints. This could have been triggered by the tech being in there and changing out the red CRT.

The convergence problem is usually remedied by resoldering the convergence ICs, or at worst replacing the offending IC. It is fairly straightforward. Rarely are there further problems, and rarer still is the need to replace the convergence board.

I have seen that need to happen, but again, very very rarely. I could probably get you back in clover in an afternoon, if you want to hire me in my service repair tech capacity. Then we would be poised and ready for a calibration on your set, if you so desired.


An all red screen draws too much current and so the unit shuts down. That is good. That it is not working properly, is of course not good.

The focus block may be set wrong and be letting in far too much red, on the red screen control. If the lines are curved horizontal and going slightly upward but arcing downward, these are called retrace lines and are indicative of overmodulation of the red screen control on the focus block.

If you turn down that screen control and the problem goes away, you're set, but will have to redo the grayscale. There is a coil in there that may have failed, which could also cause this problem. I have seen it both ways.

If that is indeed what is happening, again I could have you up, running and fully calibrated, all in one day.


Mr Bob

Hi Folks,

I just purchased a 57S715 off of the UEC website. The set arrived yesterday and it is great! It is a little scratched up but nothing that I cannot live with.

So far the picture quality is very nice. I used the tweak threads along with my Avia disc to bring contrast and brightness way down and to tweak the colors in the ISF menu.

However there is a geometry problem that is driving me nuts. My 4:3 bars are NOT even! The left bar is bigger than the right bar, by about an inch.

Since I do not have a 16:9 disc (Avia is 4:3 right?) I did not want to mess with anything just yet before asking.

Is this as simple as adjusting the HPOS adjustment in the Service menu?

Overall my geometry is OK, but I do notice a little bit of tipping which I will fix in a few weeks.

Also, what would one reccommend for checking for screen burn in since this is a refurb? I assume Hitachi would not let it out of their hands if it was bad, but since I have a 30 day warranty I need to make sure all is well. Would a white screen be good? I would think there must be something on Avia to check for this.

Thanks for your help and long live CRT...I was close to buying an SXRD but just could not justify the price for the issues it is having.

Chris


The placement and centering on HD should be set using the actual incoming picture - in true HD, not upconverted - and if the side bars on 4x3 commercials and other 4x3 stuff in HD are not correct, so be it. Much more important to have all the HD info showing up.

Avia's Widescreen Enhanced Letterbox Grid is the one to show you whether it is set properly for DVD. You'll have to have your DVDP set for Pan and Scan 4x3. Again, if that pattern, which fully fills a 16x9 screen perfectly, is centered correctly for the pattern yet you still have differences between left and right on your sidebars on 4x3 material, live with it. It is much more important to have the entire 16x9 pic showing on both HD and DVD, and that both HD and DVD be accurately centered. NTSC and other 4x3 materials will have to take the back seat, if you're forced to choose.


You will find that different channels have different spacings on their side bars, and rarely are 2 the same. And rarely are the left and right ID to each other. I forgot about trying to have the sidebars be ID to each other a long time ago. About the time I lost interest in watching anything that was 480i!


Mr Bob

The placement and centering on HD should be set using the actual incoming picture - in true HD, not upconverted - and if the side bars on 4x3 commercials and other 4x3 stuff in HD are not correct, so be it. Much more important to have all the HD info showing up.

Avia's Widescreen Enhanced Letterbox Grid is the one to show you whether it is set properly for DVD. You'll have to have your DVDP set for Pan and Scan 4x3. Again, if that pattern, which fully fills a 16x9 screen perfectly, is centered correctly for the pattern yet you still have differences between left and right on your sidebars on 4x3 material, live with it. It is much more important to have the entire 16x9 pic showing on both HD and DVD, and that both HD and DVD be accurately centered. NTSC and other 4x3 materials will have to take the back seat, if you're forced to choose.


You will find that different channels have different spacings on their side bars, and rarely are 2 the same. And rarely are the left and right ID to each other. I forgot about trying to have the sidebars be ID to each other a long time ago. About the time I lost interest in watching anything that was 480i!


Mr Bob

Thanks for the advice Mr Bob! That makes me feel more at ease -- I really thought that there might be something seriously wrong with the set (this is my first HD set). I did run a Widescreen resolution & overscan pattern on my Oppo DVD player (with the Oppo set to a widescreen screen, I am assuming I did this correctly?). In fact the entire screen should be shifted to the right an inch or so -- which would further pinch the right bar on 4:3 material. I'll leave it all alone until I can get ~100 hours on the set.

Do you travel to the East Coast at all?

What are your thoughts on the S715s scaler & deinterlacer? I would think the Faroudja DCDi chip in the Oppo might do a better job, so currently I have the Oppo upconverting to 1080i and running the signal via HDMI. From what I understand the Hitachi deinterlaces that to 1080p and then interlaces it again? Not sure exactly how that works.

Take care and thanks for your time

Chris

Convergence uses a board, not a block. You may be referring to the focus block, the only "block" in there.

The convergence ICs in these CRT RPTVs are known for going intermittent because of cold solder joints. This could have been triggered by the tech being in there and changing out the red CRT.

The convergence problem is usually remedied by resoldering the convergence ICs, or at worst replacing the offending IC. It is fairly straightforward. Rarely are there further problems, and rarer still is the need to replace the convergence board.

I have seen that need to happen, but again, very very rarely. I could probably get you back in clover in an afternoon, if you want to hire me in my service repair tech capacity. Then we would be poised and ready for a calibration on your set, if you so desired.


An all red screen draws too much current and so the unit shuts down. That is good. That it is not working properly, is of course not good.

The focus block may be set wrong and be letting in far too much red, on the red screen control. If the lines are curved horizontal and going slightly upward but arcing downward, these are called retrace lines and are indicative of overmodulation of the red screen control on the focus block.

If you turn down that screen control and the problem goes away, you're set, but will have to redo the grayscale. There is a coil in there that may have failed, which could also cause this problem. I have seen it both ways.

If that is indeed what is happening, again I could have you up, running and fully calibrated, all in one day.


Mr Bob

Thanks Mr Bob.

That information will help me for when the CC tech comes out today. I'm hoping the tech from CC will understand how to fix it. If not and I'm able to pick someone of my choosing, you'll be the first one I'll call (fortunately, I'm in the bay area).

The focus block was also changed about a year ago...I'm just praying that this is the last problem I encounter as the warranty is now gone...

Thanks again

Thanks for the advice Mr Bob! That makes me feel more at ease -- I really thought that there might be something seriously wrong with the set (this is my first HD set). I did run a Widescreen resolution & overscan pattern on my Oppo DVD player (with the Oppo set to a widescreen screen, I am assuming I did this correctly?).

AVIA requires your player be in Pan and Scan 4x3 for accurate geometry, and its geometry patterns are the best there is. Far better than on the original Video Essentials DVD, which were definitely flawed and not usable for accurate geometry.


In fact the entire screen should be shifted to the right an inch or so -- which would further pinch the right bar on 4:3 material. I'll leave it all alone until I can get ~100 hours on the set.

100 hours on the set is ONLY for the convergence. Do whatever you want with the geometry now.

Do you travel to the East Coast at all?

I fly anywhere I am sent a plane ticket and shuttle expenses for my end, and where lodging and travel expenses are covered at the other end. I don't require a hotel room or a rental car, a guest room or a couch work just fine. I have been flown to New Jersey twice so far, Texas 3 times and numerous other locations as well in other states, and would love to come over there and super-tweak your set for you.


What are your thoughts on the S715s scaler & deinterlacer? I would think the Faroudja DCDi chip in the Oppo might do a better job, so currently I have the Oppo upconverting to 1080i and running the signal via HDMI.

I would suspect that short of an outboard Faroudja or DVDO or Runco scaler, having the de-interlacing done within the DVDP's original digital domain - before it ever leaves the player and gets stomped on by the interconnects and going interlaced in the OP and then back to digital within the Hitachi - would produce the best picture.


From what I understand the Hitachi deinterlaces that to 1080p and then interlaces it again? Not sure exactly how that works.

It upconverts the 1080i to 1080p for processing, then downconverts it back to 1080i for its journey to your screen.


Take care and thanks for your time.

Chris


No problem. Glad to help.


Mr Bob

Hey guys I might buy this set tonight. I wanted to know how SD is on this set in stretch mode. When I saw the 51F710 in the store at Circuit City, SD looked really bad.

You know what they say - GIGO or Garbage In=Garbage Out. This set actually has one of the best stretch modes available. The set you saw in the store was probably not set up correclty either. I think mine has a really great SD picture... that is until I watch some HD. :p Actually if you're watching Digital OTA it looks about as good as HD except it's not 16:9.

also what works better - hooking up a dvd through hdmi and cable through component? or dvd w/component and cable w/hdmi?

I have my ATSC receiver hooked up through DVI (this set doesn't have HDMI) and DVD through Component and it looks great. I believe it would depend on the equipment you're hooking up.

I have my ATSC receiver hooked up through DVI (this set doesn't have HDMI) and DVD through Component and it looks great. I believe it would depend on the equipment you're hooking up.

Hitachi 51F710
upscaling DVD player
Comcast HD Cable Box
Xbox

also, should i buy a monster hdmi cable or is a noname brand fine?

Oh... you're in the s500/s700 thread. I thought that's what TV you were talking about. I have no idea about the 51F710 but I do know this. They call them Monster cables for a reason.... they scare me :eek:

This is the cable I bought http://www.avtoybox.com/pr-198.html

AR cables are pretty nice. Hard to quarrel with them.

I would say no-name is fine unless you have a really long run or other extenuating circumstances. Some low-cost ones here: http://www.pccables.com/

Also, I think it doesn't really matter which box uses hdmi or component for our CRT TVs...both of them will get converted to analog for display. My HDTivo looked the same on both inputs.

Matt

Hey guys I might buy this set tonight. I wanted to know how SD is on this set in stretch mode. When I saw the 51F710 in the store at Circuit City, SD looked really bad.

I bought this in november. They had comcast feeding thru the tv and i played with the stretch mode and was ok. At home, with directv, the SD OTA with bars is 'stellar". I record even my SD stuff OTA with bars whenever possible because it's that much better. Of course DTV's SD over the satellite is bad but that's not the TVs problem.

point is, this tv is very good at SD in my opinion. I'm also very happy with HD too :)

played just a bit with DVE to set it up a bit but i'm really no expert at all that stuff. But setting brightness and contrast made a huge difference.

one other tiny thing, if you are used to a shelf on top of the tv, it doesn't have one. I didnt notice that in the store and got a big surprise.

Thanks Mr Bob.

That information will help me for when the CC tech comes out today. I'm hoping the tech from CC will understand how to fix it. If not and I'm able to pick someone of my choosing, you'll be the first one I'll call (fortunately, I'm in the bay area).

The focus block was also changed about a year ago...I'm just praying that this is the last problem I encounter as the warranty is now gone...

Thanks again

Mr Bob,

CC tech (different one than last time) came and went. He thinks it is the Red CRT again, so he is ordering yet another one. I even showed him your post/diagnosis but he was dead set on the CRT, so we'll see what happens.

Obviously, your diagnosis is based on my mediocre description of the problem...so I offered it to the tech as just another possibility of what may be wrong. He agreed with what you were saying, but also said there was a blue light in the actual gun so he said it must be bad.

Thanks for your help and of course I will let everyone know what happened.

Mr Bob,

CC tech (different one than last time) came and went. He thinks it is the Red CRT again, so he is ordering yet another one. I even showed him your post/diagnosis but he was dead set on the CRT, so we'll see what happens.

Obviously, your diagnosis is based on my mediocre description of the problem...so I offered it to the tech as just another possibility of what may be wrong. He agreed with what you were saying, but also said there was a blue light in the actual gun so he said it must be bad.

Thanks for your help and of course I will let everyone know what happened.


If that blue light is in the neck of the tube and is HV arc'ing going on, then he's right. Arc'ing inside a tube can definitely cause an all red screen, draw too much current and shut a unit down after sampling the overcurrent for 5 seconds or less.


Keep in mind that after a red CRT replacement, the entire red paradigm needs attention, from the geometry of that tube to the grayscale and possibly even color decoding.

Hopefully he is versed on all these things. Repair techs, unfortunately, rarely are. They will do all the safe and correct things on the installation, but usually it stops there and they are kind of in the dark about the rest.

Fortunately, ONLY the red gun/image will need this attention. It will need to be correctly sized, placemented and converged to the green and blue images after its focus is both optically and electrostatically checked and dialed in, and the grayscale will need to be realigned on the red parameters. Hopefully he knows NOT to touch any of the other settings, on the other colors, when he does this.

This is of course predicated on the image's grayscale being correct on the old gun, before the damage happened that necessitated the repair. If so, what I said above goes.

If not tho, if it was already pretty schlocky in there, he may be able to get your entire grayscale better than it was before, by working with all the grayscale colors and parameters. I know I could, if it was schlocky before.

It would be a good time to do a thorough optics cleaning while he is in there. Hope he knows how to do this totally thoroughly, without scratching your lenses nor taking the aluminumum off your front surface mirror by using a cleaning agent with ammonia in it. Also without allowing drips into the lowest edges of your lenses, causing the internal lenses to fog up.

If the internal deeper optics need cleaning, such as at the coolant covers and rears of the lens packs, don't let him just do the red, where the CRT face will be clean but possibly not the rear of the red lens pack. Do all 3 if all 3 need it. You won't know on the other colors unless and until the regular optics are super cleaned, but on the red you can find whether there's a dust layer on the deeper optics while they are out by shining a flashlight from the side onto the rear of the lens pack.

He should also use a camera or clean cosmetic brush on that CRT coolant cover before he reassembles the chassis on it, to make sure no debris has clung to the surface of the coolant cover during the installation process. It would be a real pain in the pettuti if he finished everything and looked into the lens and found debris AFTER it was all reassembled again!


Mr Bob

When i'm watching 24 in HD, the fox 29 bug is slightly off the screen bottom right but when i'm editing the show on my E80 dvd burner (and thus have the video editing window up), you can see 100% of the fox logo on the bottom right of that screen. does that mean there is an alignment problem with my tv?

Also when I play back the DVD it's also off screen.. fox 2 shows not fox 29

It's called overscan and it's normal although a bit excessive on the Hitachi. You can adjust it with AVIA, DCAM and an overlay template but don't over adjust. 4% is about the minimum.

When i'm watching 24 in HD, the fox 29 bug is slightly off the screen bottom right but when i'm editing the show on my E80 dvd burner (and thus have the video editing window up), you can see 100% of the fox logo on the bottom right of that screen. does that mean there is an alignment problem with my tv?

Also when I play back the DVD it's also off screen.. fox 2 shows not fox 29

I have the same issue. Its overscan (too much of it). You are fine...

Ok well I'm glad it's "normal" so to speak. I dont do anything except with the user controls so will wait until when/if i pay to get this all lined up someday

Overscan is superabundant in virtually all CRT RPTVs.

Hitch is, reducing it to a nominal/acceptable level totally hoses your picture and you have to start over with your geometry and convergence, almost from scratch.

Some DIYers are adept enough for this task, but most should have a pro do it.

Taking it in not only restores lost areas of picture, but tightens up and raises the resolution by creating a much denser pixel pack in the visible viewed area, once it is all sleeked out again and hyper converged. I get it stitched so tightly that you can easily view the grain of the film used to shoot movies.


Mr Bob

That, Bob, was pure poetry. Almost brought a tear to my eye. :p

That, Bob, was pure poetry. Almost brought a tear to my eye. :p


Aw, shucks...

:D

Mr Bob

Anyone know if there are discrete on/off or toggle codes for closed captioning? I can turn them on/off via the menus, but I'd prefer something more direct...

I posted about my duvetyne and fan adventures in the Tweaks thread - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7122797&&#post7122797

Matt

does anyone have/know where to get one/want to give up theirs? the SLF10 shelf for the hitachi CRT? I should have ordered from uec when they had it last year and now it's impossible to find. I've written to 4 different places.

I read that it actually screws into the existing place on our tv so that's why i prefer it to the best buy/circuit city stuff out there. Plus the one picture online shows the universal one actually has tabs hanging down the front of your tv..insane!

I need to put my dvd burner on top of the tv, there's no other place to put it.

not related to a CRT? It seems I'm having a problem with other electronics somewhere, or I'm missing something that's so trivial (and I'm hoping this is true) that I can be off and running again with some minor tweaking.

I posted the problem here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=647076) before I found this thread (apparently my search skills are worse than my repair skills). In the middle of a show, the TV just stopped having the ability to display a picture without it scrambling all over the screen. I tried it without different sources and over different cables to no avail.

Is there any way to give this thing a hard boot, aside from unplugging it for awhile? Anything else I could try to tune to bring it back to life, or is it the scrap heap for my beloved 51S500?

Thanks,
-rj

Did you try a source other than the cable box, ie dvd or analog cable? If its on all sources and unplugging/let sit/replugging doesnt fix it likely does need service. CRT rp sets are pretty well known to tv repair people so it may not be an expensive fix. Worth getting an estimate.

New 65F710A owner here....will the digital cable box (for local stuff only) solve the brutal A/V sync problem many channels have? Just using a powered antena for now, and it seems that live things are fine, like the superbowl, olympics, etc...but watching Terminator 3 on CBS last night (another question - how can an OTA HD broadcast make an older flick look like true HD, even better than an upconverting player? Sure would like to make my movies look like THAT), the audio was not even close, way outta sync? Forced to watch it using the standard cable, puke...

Thanks

Did you try a source other than the cable box, ie dvd or analog cable? If its on all sources and unplugging/let sit/replugging doesnt fix it likely does need service. CRT rp sets are pretty well known to tv repair people so it may not be an expensive fix. Worth getting an estimate.

Paul-

I tried just about everything I can imagine (different sources, unplugging the set overnight, different types of sources (SD/HD) - and no dice. I'm still getting that flashing screen.

I am going to try to get an estimate (lousy @#%^ TV has to break on a holiday weekend) but that's how I ended up with this set; a Toshiba that I had went on the fritz, and the cost for an estimate was $200 - I figured if the guy came out and said $500 to repair, I wouldn't bother, so I just dumped the set and got this one. If I end up in the same position, it looks like I'm going to be moving away from CRT RPTV sooner than I'd hoped.

Unfortunately newer techs are not more reliable, usually less so , and more expensive to repair. Youve had some bad luck for sure but the s500 may be worth repair. Luck to you.
It may be something simple/cheap...here's hoping.

Cheers.

Paul-

I tried just about everything I can imagine (different sources, unplugging the set overnight, different types of sources (SD/HD) - and no dice. I'm still getting that flashing screen.




I had a similar thing happen to a Mit I repaired recently - it was one of those relatively conventional convergence repairs, yet when we plugged the set back in and turned it on, the HD would not sync up. At all. All other channels on his cable worked OK - the SD was fine - but the HD was completely without sync, just a mass of horizontal lines.

I put my Accupel on there and scrolled to 1080i, and presto! It was fine on my Accupel's signal. I scrolled to 480, and both i and p were fine as well. I scrolled to 720p - no signal. No great surprise there.

Turned out to be the cable converter box. They got on the horn with their provider and the proper bullet was sent down the line to reprogram it properly, after which it worked fine on HD and everything else it was supposed to work on.

But it had me worried there for awhile.

Good thing you have tried other sources.


Have you checked for coolant leakage onto the boards from the CRTs? This is not prevalent on the Hits like it is on the Mits, but could possibly be the problem. They do all sorts of freaky things when semi-conductive coolant gets on the boards and slowly starts wreaking havoc. It's sometimes weeks or months before it finally craps out or starts doing freaky things on you.

You need to take the front panel off with the set unplugged and shine a flashlight towards you, bouncing off the boards themselves. Usually it gleams with liquid, but I have also found damage from coolant that has completley dried up before causing problems.

You also need to see clearly, and I have found coolant damage in places where you have to be directly above it to see it, so you may have to go in from the back as well and place your head or a mirror where you can see directly down.

If it's there and on a multi-layer board, kiss it off or replace that board. Multi-level boards - with feedthrus and connectors of more than 2 levels - are irrepairable. The Mit signal board is 4 layers. The new DLPs are up to 8 layer boards.

If it's on a single or double layer board, the board can usually be repaired, tho on double layer boards you gotta wonder how long it will last if you do repair it, because of the copious number of feedthrus.


Mr Bob

New 65F710A owner here....will the digital cable box (for local stuff only) solve the brutal A/V sync problem many channels have? Just using a powered antena for now, and it seems that live things are fine, like the superbowl, olympics, etc...but watching Terminator 3 on CBS last night (another question - how can an OTA HD broadcast make an older flick look like true HD, even better than an upconverting player? Sure would like to make my movies look like THAT), the audio was not even close, way outta sync? Forced to watch it using the standard cable, puke...

Thanks
I doubt a cable box will solve the problem. I know some receivers have an option to add delay to the audio signal. But I think the root of the problem is the broadcaster, you should contact them and let them know there is a problem with the audio sync. It used to happen all the time on a local channel here, but I think they've got it fixed now.

The HD movie looks better because it is a high-resolution transfer from the original film. So it has more detail than 720x480 upconverted.

Matt

...but watching Terminator 3 on CBS last night (another question - how can an OTA HD broadcast make an older flick look like true HD, even better than an upconverting player? Sure would like to make my movies look like THAT)

Thanks



OTA HD is the best/least stomped-on compression out there, better than cable's QAM compression or satellite. And head and shoulders better than any upconverted 480i->1080i DVD. True HD has all the fine/superfine details that 480i lacks, in the upconversion journey of its 1080i needing to be created/synthesized/derived from the original 480i. Good jobs are done with such synthesization, but it's still synthesization, and even $20K Faroudja scalers that upconvert 480i and line double, triple and even quadruple it, were great in their time but cannot outdo true HD now that it is here. Even the best scalers have pass-thru switching for HD, and don't touch it on the way thru them. If you have a Faroudja and have not had your projector set up for true HD, please contact me immediately and we'll get your system properly taken care of. There's a palpable, highly visible difference between the 2, and if your pj is not set up for doing true HD, you're missing the boat. Expensive ceiling pjs were always capable of more than was available then/when they were designed and produced, as you could see by their graphics always looking sharper than video material did.

Now it's here. HD fully utilizes what ceiling projectors were meant for.


We can't get away from compression completely on HD, which I believe is all MPEG 2 except for QAM, but OTA is the best HD around, with the least compression. That's why a 1080i rendition shot from the original film stock is just delicious. Absolutely superlative. Just like you're there in the theater, you can see the grain of the film used to shoot the original movie, on a properly calibrated display. And shown best from simply a good old roof antenna, pointed accurately.

Then again, the way HDNet looks is also spectacular, and it is satellite, with satellite's compression. In the SF Bay area, lots of HDNet appears on KRON Ch. 4, which used to be the main NBC affiliate, but still has lots of NBC material on it and lots of HDNet as well now. And Twin Peaks tower still broadcasts KRON's NBC, so if your antenna is pointed that way for the other bay area channels, you will still get what KRON has to offer.

So for some of the best HDNet material, go OTA Ch. 4. (It's on 4-2 rather than 4-1, which is opposite from how most OTA works here in the Bay Area.)

VOOM's HD was just spectacular as well - and much of it still is, on Dish - esp. old movies like the Dean Martin tongue in cheek Matt Helm spy "thrillers", and the Cary Grant Hitchcock classic North By Northwest. It's not just the ultra crispness of 1080i. Fleshtones are just awesome on these flicks in HD.


MPEG 4 is just around the corner for satellite, too, which will allow a lot more content in the same bandwidth. Whether it will actually look better - we'll know soon.


Mr Bob

Wow, thanks for taking the time to break that down. This HT stuff is really new too me, much of what you said went :::woosh::: over my head, but I get the gist of it! Glad to know it's not my set, but rather the signal causing the delay, kinda thought it was something like that, with some channels synced perf and some not.

quick question (please shoot me down if this isn't right):

Someone said that if i find someone that has already had ISF calib and had the exact tv I do, and the HDtivo also, that all I need to do is copy their settings.

T or F?

That would be false. Might improve your picture, but it won't be the same as the ISF calibrated one. Too many variables.

Matt

Yup, pretty much false. Like the other post mentioned, too many variables. Your best bet it to hire an ISF certified calibrator.

Mark

Yup, pretty much false. Like the other post mentioned, too many variables. Your best bet it to hire an ISF certified calibrator.

Mark


Right.

Each RPTV, each set of CRTs is unique and has to have its electronics fine tuned to itself.

It would be like putting all the separate parts that make up a Lamborgini into the assembly, but never fine tuning them to each other. A finely tuned Lambogini will perform much differently from an untuned one. Same with RPTVs.

In a cal we fine tune everything to everything else, winding up with full coherence, both on the image structure with CRT technology, and the colorations aspects on everything - CRT and fixed pixel.

Full coherence of a unit to itself and within itself - to be ready for any video material then sent its way, SD or HD - is not something that can be copied, one set to the next. Only on location supertweaking can do that, to your set in particular, with your set's many particular sets of variables in play.


Mr Bob

I have a 51S715. I carefully tweaked it (just using the regular menus) when it arrived and was VERY pleased with the picture quality. I've had it since early December.

Last weekend, i had an ISF calibration. The calibrator found red push and poor grey-scale tracking. Convergence was quite good, so he mad some very minor tweaks. He went into the service menus and made changes to various phase and intensity settings. What surprsed me was his changes to the "Color" and "Sharpness" user settings: he increased both opf them well over my tweaked levels. He also rean the Contrast/Brighness settings up a bit, still in the hi 40s range.

The results were STUNNING! Every aspect of the picture was dramatically better. My wife was out of town when the calibration was done, and did not know it had been scheduled. She is usually not sensitive to PQ, but noticed the difference the first time she saw the TV on after her return.

To me, a good CRT RP, properly set up, is far superior to an LCD/DLP RP, and the equal (or very close to) a plasma screen.

Sam,

Glad to hear it. I have been enjoying my Hitachi 51SWX20B for years now and see no reason to upgrade anytime soon.

Take care,
Mark

I failed to jump on Sears recent blow out on this model -less than 1 grand, and was wondering if any one knows any retailers that are still carrying it. I have searched high and low but with no results. Thanks

I failed to jump on Sears recent blow out on this model -less than 1 grand, and was wondering if any one knows any retailers that are still carrying it. I have searched high and low but with no results. Thanks


I got my year 2000 65" Panny at www.onecall.com. They had it shipped from Kent WA to East Bay here for $140/doorstep, plus an extra $40 to bring it inside.

Jason there is very knowledgeable. If they don't have it maybe they can steer you in the right direction.


Mr Bob

seems circuity city is finally closing out the 57F710S.....they are 1499 here and i think the local entertainment book has 10% off coupons. at least last year they did when i bought mine :)

I failed to jump on Sears recent blow out on this model -less than 1 grand, and was wondering if any one knows any retailers that are still carrying it. I have searched high and low but with no results. Thanks

Dude, you snooze you lose!

:p

Mr Bob, newsposter, thank you for the tips. rdwalt-well... HARSH. Plain HARSH

Mr Bob, newsposter, thank you for the tips. rdwalt-well... HARSH. Plain HARSH

Give him a break. Besides, without humor once in a while, we would all frown, all the time. Not really harsh, I am sure. Maybe been there, instead? I know I have. I mean, where you gonna get a 57 " CRT RPTV, brand new, for under a grand??? I'd be kicking myself too.

I think his post was just fine. Go, rdwalt!


;)


Mr Bob

I couldn't resist. Plus I paid just under 2 grand almost 2 years ago for my 57S500 so your post made me a little cranky but if I knew where you could find one I'd tell ya because this TV absoutely rocks!

Guy's my "harsh" comment was intended to be light hearted. I actually got a laugh out of rdwalt's post. Dead end on the suggestions you gave me. Mr Bob, it was the 51" for under a grand ::): My search continues...

Mr Bob, it was the 51" for under a grand ::): My search continues...

OK, 51" for under a grand. I'd STILL be kicking myself!


:eek:

Mr Bob

:o

seems circuity city is finally closing out the 57F710S

Its the 57F710A model on the website. What is the difference between the 57F710S vs 57F710A ?

hmmm not sure....now i'm gonna have to go home and confirm which model i have (A or S) because i thought they only had 1 hitachi when i was buying...

I bought this in november. They had comcast feeding thru the tv and i played with the stretch mode and was ok. At home, with directv, the SD OTA with bars is 'stellar". I record even my SD stuff OTA with bars whenever possible because it's that much better.

Aren't you worried about burn-in with the side bars on?
This is the reason I haven't pulled the trigger on a CRT RPTV yet.
I watch a lot of SD and I also prefer the bars instead then stretching the picture.

That's what the gray sidebars are for. Have you seen the stretch mode on the S500? It's really good - it zooms a little and then stretches only the sides a little. I rarely watch with bars anymore but then again I'm just a Widescreen freak. :p

That's what the gray sidebars are for. Have you seen the stretch mode on the S500? It's really good - it zooms a little and then stretches only the sides a little. I rarely watch with bars anymore but then again I'm just a Widescreen freak. :p

ok cool, so what you are saying is that gray side bars help prevent burn-in, I didn't know that. Thanks

But newsposter is saying he records OTA SD, which has the black bars added by the networks, and is upconverted to HD. You can zoom the HD signal, but you can't stretch.

4:3 with black sidebars and 2.35:1 movies are maybe 10-15% of my viewing time, I'm not worried about burn-in.

Matt

This is a problem. I've heard you can change the OTA SD to 480i with the STB and that might allow you to stretch but I haven't tried that yet. I avoid OTA SD like the plague :p. If it's not HD I just use my SD Dish receiver.

Aren't you worried about burn-in with the side bars on?
This is the reason I haven't pulled the trigger on a CRT RPTV yet.
I watch a lot of SD and I also prefer the bars instead then stretching the picture.

Nope, don't watch that much SD OTA. All the primetime reality shows pretty much is it. My wife is also thrilled to just stretch the directv picture since the hitachi is so good.

Also, the hdtivo puts out a better SD pic than my T60. I guess it has something to do with the fact that i keep both hdtivo and the hitachi at 1080. The techno people can probably explain that to you better than I can.

But newsposter is saying he records OTA SD, which has the black bars added by the networks, and is upconverted to HD. You can zoom the HD signal, but you can't stretch.


I dont understand your statement. How is stuff like survivor converted to HD? I thought i was just watching a better SD pic than i receive vs directv.

I dont understand your statement. How is stuff like survivor converted to HD? I thought i was just watching a better SD pic than i receive vs directv.
They take the 640x480 SD picture, slap some black bars on the sides, and upconvert and broadcast at 1920x1080. Or 1280x720.

It doesn't actually make it HD. It looks better than DirecTV because D* compresses the signal more.

Matt

Guys -

Have any of you experienced "burn-in" in the passive sense on your Hitachi RPs? Like if you have a completely black screen with an image moving across it, the image leaves a little "image residue" where it used to be? (i.e. Growing WB logo at beginning of Harry Potter flashes in and out at beginning of movie - on my set, you still see traces of W.B. even when it has faded out a bit.)

I can even turn on my set and set the input to a non ANT input with all lights off at night and see a few faint grey diagonal lines through the set. It has been this way since I got it in Dec 2004 (It's an 57S715), and I have just ignored the problem.

It's like a pot is up too high or something. Any ideas?

Nice forum, I want to use the dvi connection on my 46f500. Input 1 has the dvi + component. Input 2 has the other component. My question is can the dvi and component be plugged into the same input? One will be for dvds and the other will be for HDTV.

Yes. It will switch to whichever signal is active, DVI has priority. My HDTivo DVI output was always on, so this meant the component input was useless.

Matt

I'm sorry to bump an older thread but my searches have turned up nothing.

I am an owner of a 51s500 and am wanting to buy either Blu-Ray or HD-DVD after the smoke settles and was wondering if my TV is HDCP compliant. My Dad is the owner of a 65s500 so I'm sure he will be curious as well

Thanks

Ryan

So I may have asked my question prematurely. A simple google search tells me the s500 series is HDCP compliant and my Samsung HD931 requireing HDCP for DVI upconversion verifies that. Is it safe to assume that the Blu-Ray(PS3)/HD DVD will work on my television?

If not, what steps can be taken?

Yes, your display is HDCP complaint. My display, the previous year's SWX20B, is also HDCP complaint and I have had no trouble with HDCP equipped devices.

Thanks,
Mark

Thank you mczolton!

I maybe nuts and I'll admit that first off.

I bought my 57S700 when everyone was going crazy for them a while back.

At that time I had spent my free time messign around with my HTPC instead of tweeking my picture.

The HTPC had hardware issues, I shevled it for months, just got it repaired and hooked up recently.

I still have HTPC tweeking to do but, I'd like to divert my time to creating a better picture first.

So, I realize I should read through all 13xx posts and I intend to (ouch) but I am hoping a for a bit of advice first.

Imagine I just brought the 57S700 home today, now what do you recommend I do first?

I have just learned how to access the ISF menu, I have done the magic focus followed by manual convergence (dang blue lines are hard to get lined up), and I have run through DVE.

I know it's capable of a better picture, now where to go from here?

Also, I read in the manual that the RPTV supports 1080i and 1280 horizontal lines. Now what would the best screen size/res. from my HTPC be?

Thanks in advance!

Drew

Drew -

Check out the tweak threads - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6164081&highlight=tweaks#post6164081

I once tried hooking up my PC to the TV, and it was a PITA. Getting the overscan, front porch, back porch, all that stuff right was hard. I think you just have to play around till you find what works best.

Matt

Drew -

Check out the tweak threads - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6164081&highlight=tweaks#post6164081

I once tried hooking up my PC to the TV, and it was a PITA. Getting the overscan, front porch, back porch, all that stuff right was hard. I think you just have to play around till you find what works best.

Matt


HTPCs have WAY too many variables to use to set up a CRT based RPTV.

You gotta use something that is already set up, like a DVDP, or an HD STB. These don't have any variables on image positioning or size, which is the definition of geometry.

This is true not only in setting up your circles being true circles, your linearities being true, your side/side/up/down centering being correct, but also your overscan reduction, once reducing overscan has hosed your geometry and convergence from where it was OOB.

THEN put your HTPC online and set it up, using the TV's images as your template.

I would NEVER use an HTPC to set up an RPTV. You have no way to know where to start.


Mr Bob

I maybe nuts and I'll admit that first off.

That's Ok. We all are.

:D



I have just learned how to access the ISF menu, I have done the magic focus followed by manual convergence (dang blue lines are hard to get lined up), and I have run through DVE.

It's extremely difficult to get convergence right on the way too hot, way too thick lines presented by typical internally gen'd grids, on these puppies. And that goes for most brands.

Best convergence is done using nice mid light level patterns sent in from the outside. 50 IRE grids are best, as they are average light level, since high light level grids can tow off your positioning where your cursor is of the various colors, causing them to separate. At which point you will have differences between where the grid told you to set things and where they will appear on average light level video images. Convergence then looks fine on grids, lousy on program materials.

Only the newer gen Hits allow for this, I believe with the Menu button on the remote. The older ones, you're stuck with their grids.

It's also most effective to shut off one color or another when you're doing supertight, superprecision convergence. I usually do red onto the green, then blue onto the red, since blue and red are much closer in relative light levels than blue and green are.



I know it's capable of a better picture, now where to go from here?

Always keep contrast at halfway or below on your bargraph. The worst thing to do in CRT technology is to use "Torch Mode" - 100% contrast. It prematurely ages your guns, it tows your red and green convergence off and away from each other, it blooms your focusing, and causes your grayscale to go nonlinear - very colorful in your b/w's, when it's supposed to simply be the color of a cloudy overcast sky.

Check the various color temp modes for your set, and use the one closest to the color of a cloudy overcast sky on a good b/w set of images. The original Casablanca comes to mind.

Other than that, on to those incredible tweaks mentioned above!


Also, I read in the manual that the RPTV supports 1080i and 1280 horizontal lines.

This is news to me. Is this correct? Are there now 3 HD scanrates - 720p, 1080i and 1280? 1280 what? I or P?



Now what would the best screen size/res. from my HTPC be?
Thanks in advance!

Drew

See my last post.


Mr Bob

since we have your attention and since it sort of relates to my 51s500 can you answer this thread I posted? It won't let me post the link yet....

Cabling Confusion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a Hitachi 51s500 RPTV which has the following cable input layout:

1) DVI or Component
2) Component
3) S video or RCA
4) S video or RCA

I will have 3 HDMI/DVI devices to hookup and then 2 component video inputs but currently have 2 HDMI/DVI devices and 3 component. I'm planning on buying the Audio Authority 1154a component switcher but don't know what to do about the DVI/HDMI connections. I don't really have the $350 that a 4x1 DVI switcher costs for this little project.

I'm not sure if it will even work or degrade the image too much but what about a DVI-D splitter? Basically a Y-cable with one male with two females. I suppose the audio will have to be split at the TV just the same way as well.

Is this doable?

Thanks for your help!

since we have your attention and since it sort of relates to my 51s500 can you answer this thread I posted? It won't let me post the link yet....

Cabling Confusion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have a Hitachi 51s500 RPTV which has the following cable input layout:

1) DVI or Component
2) Component
3) S video or RCA
4) S video or RCA

I will have 3 HDMI/DVI devices to hookup and then 2 component video inputs but currently have 2 HDMI/DVI devices and 3 component. I'm planning on buying the Audio Authority 1154a component switcher but don't know what to do about the DVI/HDMI connections. I don't really have the $350 that a 4x1 DVI switcher costs for this little project.

I'm not sure if it will even work or degrade the image too much but what about a DVI-D splitter? Basically a Y-cable with one male with two females. I suppose the audio will have to be split at the TV just the same way as well.

Is this doable?

Thanks for your help!


I have never seen a DVI splitter - do they make them? Will the ends accept signals from different units conn'd together to go to your set, or will they short against each other and cause damage, like what happens when you try to connect 2 amps to the same set of speakers?

Many of the better AV receivers have component switching built in, but I have not seen any with DVI/HDMI switching, tho that is the wave of the future, and new gen AV receivers will HAVE to have HDMI switching. Just haven't seen it yet, tho I am sure it is out there on the more expensive AV units, and will become much more commonplace as time goes by.

Thank God they are finally coming up with something permanent and leveling off! Remember when component was all the rage on DVD players? Remember when S video was found to be so much better than composite???

You will definitely need some sort of switching, with all those devices. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.


Mr Bob

Thanks Mr Bob!

Here is one DVI switch: http://i18.ebayimg.com/01/i/07/4b/ef/73_1.JPG it's not cheap though... It also doesn't pass audio, just the DVI signal. I never thought about the DVI Y splitter causing issues, I suppose it would.

Here's another that is cheaper and looks to pass audio: http://members.aol.com:/opticana/55 It will not convert DVI to HDMI though.

The newer higher priced (1k plus) Yamaha receivers do HDMI switching but they only have 2 inputs.

Thanks Mr Bob!

It will not convert DVI to HDMI though.




If all you need is the video, DVI->HDMI or vice versa is a relatively cheap adapter patchcord. It is totally passive, and requires no active transcoding.

Most straight thru switchers do no transcoding, and this is usually the case in AV switchers also. One exception would be SVHS VCRs, where the composite coming in is usually put out as either S or composite, allowing you to upconvert composite to S in the most effective, best looking way possible. Much much better than simple inline passive adapter plugins that claim to do that upconversion from composite to S.


Mr Bob

My main concern is getting the PS3 on the HDMI but my cable box has it as well and I don't use it. The only thing on the DVI now is my Samsung DVD player doing the upconvert.

Ideally I would like to have cable, PS3 and future hidef dvd on there.

Also, I read in the manual that the RPTV supports 1080i and 1280 horizontal lines. Now what would the best screen size/res. from my HTPC be?

Thanks in advance!

Drew

Drew,

The native scan rate of the set is 1080i or 540p, and these are the scan rates that you want to input to the set to maximize image quality and minimize video processing inside the set. As others have noted, it will take A LOT of work to get the HTPC looking right on your set, and you may not totally succeed. Upscaling DVD players are inexpensive now and a lot easier to use than HTPC's.

There is no 1280 horizontal lines HDTV standard. There is of course a standard for 1280 (vertical) by 720p (horizontal) lines. Your Hitachi does not support an HDTV format that does not exist.

What the manual says (unclearly) is that your set is capable of displaying "1280 horizontal lines of TV resolution." This statement is ambiguous (and many manufacturers are guilty of similar unclear statements). One way to read this is that your set has a "horizontal resolution" of 1280 lines (which is measured by displaying vertical lines across the screen).

Horizontal resolution is measured by vertical lines placed one after the other across the width of the screen. Likewise, vertical resolution is measured by horizontal lines placed one after the other from top to bottom of the screen.

Another (less logical) way to read Hitachi's statement is that your set has a vertical resolution of 1280 horizontal lines (even though there's no HDTV standard that will feed your set a source with 1280 horizontal lines). However, this doesn't mean that your set will be able to display horizontal resolution of 1920 vertical lines. Hitachi doesn't specify that resolution, if the statement is read this way.

The "bottom line" (so to speak) is that on a 1920x1080 broadcast, your set's actual display horizontal resolution is not 1920 (vertical) lines, but something less (maybe 1280 (vertical) lines instead). In other words, your set (like probably all CRT's) is not capable of displaying the full resolution of a 1920x1080 broadcast, even though it can accept that input as native. What happens is that in the process of getting an actual image displayed on your screen, resolution is lost and you don't get the full resolution of the source.

LOTS of displays of all types are like this, including many that claim to have 1920x1080 resolution, some of which often end up only displaying 860x540, half the claimed resolution. Your set does much better than that.

Your set will look great even though it can't display true 1920x1080 (though it can accept that input, and that's what you should feed it because it will look best). However, a set capable of displaying full 1920x1080 resolution will look sharper if you have them side by side and you're watching a full resolution source.

Hope this helps clarify.

Les
ISF Calibrator San Francisco Bay Area
www.holtmods.com/isf.htm

Excellent explanation, Les.

;)

Mr Bob

Les or Bob,

Care to comment on the notion that some folks use a video processor to scale a 1080i source to 540p? I am told that this trade-off may be superior on displays that cannot produce full 1920x1080 due to a progressive format being generally more desierable than an interlaced one.

Thanks,
mark

Thanks for the edjumication!!

Seriously, that helps greatly with a basic understanding but I feel that I will have several more days of reading to get all I need.

1) I am also looking for a DVD player that displays best on my RPTV (HTPC is using the one DVI so, over component, does it have to upconvert to do this or only the digital displays reaping the benefit here?) as mine died and I'd like a good backup to my HTPC. Maybe the Zenith 418?

2) I need resolutions and timings (preferably from someone that has my set so I may cut and paste into Powerstrip.

3) I also need to learn to calibrate my set, hopefully from someone with the same set that can share values.

OK that should do it :)

Thanks for all your help guys!

Les or Bob,

Care to comment on the notion that some folks use a video processor to scale a 1080i source to 540p? I am told that this trade-off may be superior on displays that cannot produce full 1920x1080 due to a progressive format being generally more desierable than an interlaced one.

Thanks,
mark


I would have doubts as whether scaling to 540p would keep the 1920 extended out to whatever its fullest value would be when at 1080i. Last I read of Joe Kane's take on it was that broadcast 1080i - the least compression of them all - arrives at STBs at 1080x1440. Would you still get hor. rez of 1440 at 540p? Don't know, have not tested for it. But it's definitely in question, and would depend highly on the quality of the scaling device.

Along with that, scanlines are flagrantly visible in 540p, just as they are in 480p when you are allowing your set to provide you not just with a "big screen across the room" effect, but with being a true home cinema. BIG. Up close and personal. Like 8' back from a 65", which is where I sit in front of mine, completely immersing myself in the images, my head and eyes having to move all the time to follow the action, just like at the mall theaters when you're halfway back from the screen.

On my 65" CRT RPTV display, even 720p shows scanlines. 1080i's are also still visible in certain types of scenes, but of course much harder to make out. Which is one of the primary purposes of HD - to as much as possible get rid of the "window slat" effect so common in 480p, and exacerbated horribly by steady vertical movement in 480i on older SD TVs, like when credits roll. When credits roll on 480i, you can actually see the letters cut in half on many occasions, by the scanlines separating into their individual 240 line frames.


Downrezing 1080i to 540p is not worth what you gain in those scant, skimpy moments when 1080i breaks down via motion artifacts. I would much rather have the fullest rez possible instead, and put up with only very occasionally visible artifacts.


Mr Bob

Thanks Bob!

Mark

My equipment is set to send the signal in 720p, did I just read that the s500 series of TV performs better with a signal of 1080i?

It's my understanding that the CRT RP native Resolution is 1080I . If you send a 720P signal your TV just upconverts it to 1080I So yes its better because you wont need to convert.


I reserve the right to be wrong :)

My equipment is set to send the signal in 720p, did I just read that the s500 series of TV performs better with a signal of 1080i?


Whether you are looking at the vertical res or not - the 1080 vs. the 720 - the horizontal res still suffers. At 720p it/the hor. res maxes out at 1280, whereas at 1080i it can theoretically go all the way out to 1920.

This difference is highly noticeable on my year 2000 Panny, the last one to keep 720p as itself, without upconverting it to 1080i.

I have tried watching native 720p on ABC and Fox, as opposed to native 1080i on CBS - CSI - and HDNet - anything and everything - and there is definitely a difference, esp. in perceived edge enhancement of vertical lines/edges. Whether it's there or not, it LOOKS like there is more edge enhancement in 720p, which I believe is the comparative lack of horizontal res, compared to 1080i. And sending in 720p to be upconverted starts you out with a lack of that res, that requires synthesis to make up.

And synthesis just ain't the real thing. Just look at Faroudja. They had it made when the only sources available to use on big projectors was 480i. Now that HD is truly here, it looks better than the best upconversion Faroudja was ever capable of in its best years. I have supertweaked $40K Runco projectors with both - upconverted 480 and the untouched, passed-thru, non-stepped on/non-processed HD version of the same thing, supertweaking both scanrates/inputs/memories - and the difference is so stunning that Runco owners who have gotten used to the fantastic quality of their incredibly expensive Faroudjas are in pain that HD now looks better. Markedly better. You can sit several feet closer to the screen because of it, thereby having a much larger perceived size of screen to be watching, and immersing yourself in.


That's why I set my Dish 622 to put out 1080i, rather than 720p. Even Fox and ABC look better when I do that, and my TV can do both.

I recommend you use 1080i going in, and be done with it.


Mr Bob

I started a new thread when I should have posted it here.

Being that this is the S500/700 thread, what is your opinion on the internal scaler of our units?

No matter what I try through my HTPC my old non progressive scan Sony (circa 98') scales better. Picture looks better throught the HTPC but my 57S700 seems to scale well.

Most DVD's there is only a hint of black bars on top and bottom and the picture looks proportionally correct.

Reason for asking is that the Sony player I have has now died and I am looking for the best picture I can get (for the $) and I am leaning toward the Oppo 970.
I have read that if my RPTV scales well get the 970 and if not then the 971.

Sorry just thought of another, being an analog CRT based RPTV I should get the better picture through the component connection? So, DVD and HTPC should go component?

Thanks guys!!

Sorry just thought of another, being an analog CRT based RPTV I should get the better picture through the component connection? So, DVD and HTPC should go component?

Thanks guys!!


For 480i, component out of the DVDP should give you the best pic not only on 480i but on 480p as well. Component is only one step down from true RGB, and this makes it head and shoulders above S video, on the efficacy totem pole.

Have you considered getting an upconverting DVDP, that takes in 480i from the disc and puts out 1080i? I know it's hard to find one that puts it out in component, but in DVI/HDMI it's easy. The Momitsu 880 and the LiteOn LVD 2001 both put out 1080i in component, but both are out of print now. The Sammy 841 does a fine job of utilizing DVI, and I hear there's an internal sm workaround that makes it capable of putting it out in component as well.

Anybody know about that?

That will get you past the window-slat effect of ANY 480p - externally or internally scaled - which is very noticeable on any well calibrated Hitachi.


Mr Bob

I just got done spending $80 at Best Buy for component video, toslink optical and an RCA cable, would I be better off getting the optical and RG59 component at monoprice? (not at all related to s500 series, sorry)

The LGA-511 will upconvert via component. Still sold at BB I think, able to find it on the webl Have to "hack" it to make it run 1080I via component but its easy.

Info found here..

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=534154&page=7&pp=30

I just got done spending $80 at Best Buy for component video, toslink optical and an RCA cable, would I be better off getting the optical and RG59 component at monoprice? (not at all related to s500 series, sorry)

What's the RCA cable for? Hopefully just for the AV receiver's menu OP...

I would get the RG59 at monoprice, if what you mean by that is that they are using RG59 as the component cables. I don't know how they are going to improve on RG59, which is what cable used until they had to go to RG56, with its triple shielding and larger inner electrode, for the then-new higher freq channels.

If you can get compo cables in RG56, that's what I'd do, tho I don't know if getting coax capable of higher radio freqs than RG59 is capable of, is even necessary when talking about component freqs.

I would like to hear anybody's report on how the really high priced fancy ones actually deliver a finer pic than that.


Mr Bob

Here's a discussion of Oppo 971 vs. 970. It looks like they're both upconverting players (over DVI or HDMI). http://ubb.outlawaudio.com/cgi-local/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=000758;p=1

From my experience, the S500/S700 handles de-interlacing well. Better than the cheap progressive scan DVD player I had. The only thing is the "Auto" movie-mode doesn't seem to work very well. I turn it On for film content and Off for video.

I haven't used an upconverting DVD player, but my opinion is that wouldn't make much of an improvement. It's only upconverting, you can't add detail that isn't there. Our TV already deinterlaces AND upconverts to 540p or 1080i.

As far as DVI vs. component, I had my HDTivo hooked up both ways, I couldn't tell the difference.

Matt

Sorry, I should have been more clear. This cable goes from the audio authority 1154a component video switcher to the TV. The devices plugged in to the AA are an xbox 360, gamecube and sony PS2. Eventually my DVD player might be plugged in to this. The xbox 360 will play games in 1080i and 720p so I need something to pass HDTV well.

I know, I'm a geek. :)

thrlride - I am using that 1154a switcher to connect the 360, gamecube, and ps2 to my S715 & I love that box to death.

Which set do you have? I am using the HDMI out on my DVD player to hook it up & figure you would probably use that for your DVD player as well if you had the option. Of course, if you get a PS3....I guess that pretty much solves what gets the HDMI (if you only have one like me)

This thread has been very helpful. I have had my 51S700 for about three years and would like to clean the lens. By taking off the back I was able to clean the top of the lens. However it appears I would have to remove the screen to get to the bottom of the lens pack. I took off the front panel and I could only see the bottom of the CRT'S. Based on previous threads I understand not to touch the wing nut that is by the coolant. How do you remove the screen once you remove the screws that hold it in place at the bottom? What if any thing is attached to the assembly of the screen frame? I appreciate anyone's help.

It's just the screws on the bottom that hold the screen in place. You can lift it up and off. I had to unscrew the bottom left magic focus sensor to get enough slack to move it to the side. Pics here - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7122797&&#post7122797

I am not familiar with cleaning the bottom of the lens?

Matt

Thanks Matt.

This thread has been very helpful. I have had my 51S700 for about three years and would like to clean the lens. By taking off the back I was able to clean the top of the lens. However it appears I would have to remove the screen to get to the bottom of the lens pack. I took off the front panel and I could only see the bottom of the CRT'S. Based on previous threads I understand not to touch the wing nut that is by the coolant. How do you remove the screen once you remove the screws that hold it in place at the bottom? What if any thing is attached to the assembly of the screen frame? I appreciate anyone's help.


You don't touch the wingnuts not because of the coolant, but because they allow refocusing, and yours may not be off. The screws you remove to get each lens off if you are doing the deeper optics cleaning are the ones you need to be very careful of removing or not removing, because of the coolant.

Unit must be OFF - unplugged, preferably - when you are removing screws, so that if one bobbles out of your hands - using a long magnetized screwdriver is best - if it falls down inside you won't immediately be seeing smoke as a result. I would recommend removing all lens screws at once if you are doing the deeper optics cleaning before proceeding, then screwing them all back again at once, afterwards. That allows the TV to be OFF whenever you are dealing with the screws.

The cleaning in general, tho, is aided by having a very bright picture up there, both while cleaning the mirror and all parts of the lenses.

Optics cleaning in general means cleaning both the mirror and all 3 of the lens tops.

Deeper optics cleaning means doing the op on each lens separately - so you can't get them mixed up - removing and cleaning the lens rears and the CRT coolant covers - 2 surfaces each - of each color and replacing each one of the 3 lenses, BEFORE moving on to the next one.


Mr Bob

im not home..can someone tell me the power usage of their 57 incher? other sizes probably close enough too..just trying to explain something to someone

Here's what the service manual says:

Power Consumption:
Stand-By Power
51/57/65S500 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .0.4W
Power Consumption (operating)
51/57/65S500 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .201W
Power Consumption (maximum)
51/57/65S500 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .252W

I think my Hitachi 65S500 is not doing so well. I'm hoping I can get some advice on what I can do or if I need to give it up and "pull the plug" (which I hope isn't the case I really dont have the money to get a brand new TV)

I bought it in 2003 and sadly was given an open box model. It worked wonderful up until this year. I noticed an overscan issue (right and bottom are really out of whack in 1080i and the left and top of the screen are just have a touch of overscan) Though annoying when playing Xbox 360 it was nothing I was truly concerned with. But that was the start.

A few months back I started noticing the colors seperating/drifting is the best to describe it, I ran "Magic Focus" and everything returned to normal for about a week and then it once again had the colors seperating again. Now adding to that, the picture has become increasingly dark. Like if I'm playing a game and go in the shadows for example it almost becomes as dark as if the TV isnt really on. Things like Cartoons still seem to have a touch of vibrant colors but once again once there's a dark scene or something the tv almost goes pitch black.

Sadly last month my niece didnt help the TV that much (she's 9 years old) She was playing gamecube and she knows how to turn everything off when its done except she left the TV itself on with no signal going to it. I didn't notice till the next day so the TV was on with no signal for a good 14-20 hrs. I don't think it helped the darkness issue at all as it seemed to get a little worse.

I love the 65S500 it is a HT TV (so games movies and HDTV) It's big for the room and if i was to get a new TV it'd be a 57" but I really dont have the money to buy a brand new TV. Is there anything I can do? Or is it a lost cause?

I think my Hitachi 65S500 is not doing so well. I'm hoping I can get some advice on what I can do or if I need to give it up and "pull the plug" (which I hope isn't the case I really dont have the money to get a brand new TV)

I bought it in 2003 and sadly was given an open box model. It worked wonderful up until this year. I noticed an overscan issue (right and bottom are really out of whack in 1080i and the left and top of the screen are just have a touch of overscan) Though annoying when playing Xbox 360 it was nothing I was truly concerned with. But that was the start.

A few months back I started noticing the colors seperating/drifting is the best to describe it, I ran "Magic Focus" and everything returned to normal for about a week and then it once again had the colors seperating again.

Sadly last month my niece didnt help the TV that much (she's 9 years old) She was playing gamecube and she knows how to turn everything off when its done except she left the TV itself on with no signal going to it. I didn't notice till the next day so the TV was on with no signal for a good 14-20 hrs. I don't think it helped the darkness issue at all as it seemed to get a little worse.




Overscan and image repositioning are standard practices in any good fullscale/fullservice triple-gun CRT calibration. What you are reporting is not significantly different from the state of most OOB sets, I am afraid.

Sounds like you might have a convergence issue, with the colors separating. Not overwhelmingly prevalent in Hit's, but very overwhelmingly prevalent in all CRT based RPTVs in general. Many owners have their conv ICs changed out during the life of their sets. It's a very common repair op, and always done rather than scrap a set.

They could be drawing the needed current down on your set, causing the darkening.

I would get that fixed and go from there. It may cure the rest and it may not. But it is not an expensive repair, as repairs go, and since 95% of your set is still working just fine and you have incredible life left in all guns, I'd DEFINITELY fix it if I were you. Your set is not even half-lifed yet.


BTW, just having the set on with no pic on it, dark/black screen, is no big deal at all, no matter how many hours you left it on, this one occasion. There was NO wear and tear on the phosphors, and all that was aged was the electronics themselves, and they were not in any sort of high stress condition.

It would be as if you left it on with a full sized picture on it at low contrast for 14-20 hours. No sweat at all, it's just a couple more days' worth of viewing.

Now if you had had a fixed image on there somewhere, at high contrast level, I'd be worried about possible screenburn. But from what you've said, no, she didn't hurt your set in the least.

Audiophiles leave their equipment on at all times, night and day. They abhor the voltage/current spikes of turning such esoteric equipment on and off, and subjecting their delicate equipment to such unnecessary stress.


Mr Bob

Audiophiles leave their equipment on at all times, night and day. They abhor the voltage/current spikes of turning such esoteric equipment on and off, and subjecting their delicate equipment to such unnecessary stress.


Mr Bob

Interesting. Is there a measureable basis in fact for this? The reason I ask is sometimes I'm burning stuff to dvd and will have 3 shows in a row. I've typically turned off the tv after I start the recording and then come back in an hour...x 3.

And speaking about power...what accounts for the 50 watt difference between the normal and max power? I assume if you had the brightness up to 100? :)

Interesting. Is there a measureable basis in fact for this?

Is there any died in the wool audiophile anywhere who is actually reasonable??? I have never heard audiophiles talk in terms that were measurable!

:p

Aside from Class A amps, which run at full power at all times even when silent, there's quite a bit of difference between the watts used for audio that is silent, which for normal amps is just a trickle, and leaving a bigscreen on, using over 200 watts.

The reason I ask is sometimes I'm burning stuff to dvd and will have 3 shows in a row. I've typically turned off the tv after I start the recording and then come back in an hour...x 3.


Since your set needs 45 minutes just for the convergence circuit to reach its regular running temp, I would simply turn your contrast and brightness all the way down and leave it with a black screen for those individual hours. Or use your Recall function to put it on an SD OTA channel, where THAT input has its c and b minimized. Then hit Recall and you go back to your recorded material.

And speaking about power...what accounts for the 50 watt difference between the normal and max power? I assume if you had the brightness up to 100? :)

Probably.

In terms of light level, anyway, which I think is what you are calling brightness in this context. "Brightness", technically, is the black level in your dark passages, and turning it up would not change much of anything.

Contrast would, tho.


Mr Bob

O man, I once put grand theft auto on pause while i went to the store turned my 51s500 to ant. then went away only to go out that night. While I was out one of my roommates friends decide to play a bit and left my tv on with GTA on pause for 19 hours straight!!!!!!! I came home in the morning to find the game on and then after finding out how long it was on I FREAKED OUT!! but thank god I had my set setup properly cause there wasn't even a hint of burn-in on it phewwwwww. needless to say live alone! lol

A friend of mine who has the 57s500 is moving this week and we need to split the cabinet to move it out. However he lost the directions to split it and since I'm out of town I dont have the directions that came with my 65s500.

Is there a PDF online that states how to split the cabinet?

Thank you in advance

A friend of mine who has the 57s500 is moving this week and we need to split the cabinet to move it out. However he lost the directions to split it and since I'm out of town I dont have the directions that came with my 65s500.

Is there a PDF online that states how to split the cabinet?

Thank you in advance
Here ya go

I have a Hitachi 57S500 which recently began having issues as follows: When the television is turned on, it immediately begins Magic Focus. The set then displays the picture properly unless it is switched to Component inputs (for HD content). This happened for a week. After the TV warms-up approximately 10-15 minutes into the session, thick transparent bars roll diagonally across the screen as the picture slowly scrolls up. Additionally last night black bars began appearing diagonally across the screen. Turning set off and on does not help. But if I disconnect the power for 5 minutes and re-try it works for approximately 10-15 minutes again.

I've read a couple of explanations related to IC Output, and DCU. I've also read that the cost of repair can range from $400 to $1100. I don't want to spend $1100 to fix this set as I only paid $2500 for it.

Any feedback appreciated! I can appreciate NightStriker's pain.

But if I disconnect the power for 5 minutes and re-try it works for approximately 10-15 minutes again.




Classic signs of cold solder joints somewhere in your system. Where, is anybody's guess at this point, but possibly in one of the boards dedicated to the video processing, judging from what you are saying about the black bars and stuff.

Probably can get out of it for under $500 if you're lucky, and get a really insightful, intuitive repair tech.


Mr Bob

What causes a cold solder joint? Is there a device that can be used to locate a cold solder joint (perhaps through testing for voltage loss or improper waveforms etc...)?

What causes a cold solder joint? Is there a device that can be used to locate a cold solder joint (perhaps through testing for voltage loss or improper waveforms etc...)?


Your unit is turned on and heats up, which takes awhile to go all the way to nominal running temp. Then it is turned off and cools down, finally going all the way cold again. Heat up, cool down. The joints anywhere in there connected to heat producing components expand, then they contract. They expand, they contract.

Eventually this expansion/contraction of joints going to heat producing components, like transistors, regulators, raised resistors etc, cause their joints to start breaking down. A "halo" forms around the leg, between it and the edge of the pad. When you touch your soldering iron to it without solder on it, if it is really weak the solder will pull away from both the leg and the pad, leaving empty space between the 2 on most of the joint. This solder can be rejuvenated, it does not have to be removed. Just touching it up with fresh solder lends enough resin in there to replace whatever has dried up, and the joint will become gleaming, shiny and new again, and will usually last forever after that, if the solder originally used was thin and became dried out prematurely.

I have seen them caused by load resistors being too small and thus carrying too much heat for long term efficacy. On one Mit series, they came out with a modification that among other things, replaced one 5 watt resistor of value 3.3K, with two 5 watt resistors in series - one 1.5K and the other 1.8K - equalling 3.3k but with twice the wattage - or heat dissipating - capacity.

Also on many regulator transistors that were not adequately heat sunk.

It can actually happen on plug ins, where you haven't even pulled that plug out at all.

Some power transistors have rivets in their holes to help, which usually keeps them from going bad. But on one transformer of a ceiling pj where this was not true, I found one joint - and it was a big one - where the pad had pulled so far away from the leg that there was empty space completely around it, with absolutely no connection going on between the 2. You could see thru it!


Sometimes the cold solder joint is not visible, looks just like all those around it. But intuitively I know that area must be at fault so I solder that area anyway, and the problem disappears. Some of the repair work I do takes a whole lot of experience to accomplish properly, and the 20 years plus that I have put in to repairing electronics in general is essential to my success on those particular repairs.

Unfortunately, in answer to your question, I know of no way of detecting a cold solder joint other than by sight. And intuition.


Mr Bob

On the topic of the audiophile desire to leave their equipment on all the time, I believe the theory is that the gear sounds better "warm". You often see reviewers refer to their "break-in" scheme and that they didn't do any serious listening for 30 minutes after turn-on. This is an expensive proposition for true class A amps, since they use the greatest amount of electricity when no signal is present. One positive note is that this greatly reduces the failure rate of the power switch.

I can't personally attest to either theory.

On a different note.....

Does anyone have any personal recommendation for an ISF-certified tech (who knows what he/she is doing on a Hitachi) in Colorado?

I have been to the ISF site...just looking for personal experiences.

Thanks,
Jeff

On the topic of the audiophile desire to leave their equipment on all the time, I believe the theory is that the gear sounds better "warm". You often see reviewers refer to their "break-in" scheme and that they didn't do any serious listening for 30 minutes after turn-on. This is an expensive proposition for true class A amps, since they use the greatest amount of electricity when no signal is present. One positive note is that this greatly reduces the failure rate of the power switch.

I can't personally attest to either theory.



I would agree with that. 2 reasons now that audiophiles keep their units on all the time.


On a different note.....

Does anyone have any personal recommendation for an ISF-certified tech (who knows what he/she is doing on a Hitachi) in Colorado?

I have been to the ISF site...just looking for personal experiences.

Thanks,
Jeff


If you can't find anyone, fly me in and I'll get her straightened out for you. I used to live in Colorado Springs, then I moved to Denver, then Greeley.

Those listed on the ISF website rarely know anything about the image structure needs of CRT based RPTVs, which include optics cleaning, focusing, geometry and convergence, plus overscan reduction, astigmatism and scheimpflug alignments if needed/desired. I can take care of all of those things for you, along with the regular ISF regimen of grayscale and user control recentering, that they do teach.

I also know color decoding relignment, which ISF also does not teach. It is instrumental in getting a Hitachi away from its red push and into lifelike linear color decoding.

Remember, the bottom line is not any one of those things above, nor any limited multiple combination of them. It is suspension of disbelief, which on a CRT triple-gun RPTV requires ALL of them.


Mr Bob

Well, for now, I mostly need the grayscale and the color checked. I'm probably going to wait until I move next year to go for a more thorough calibration. I'm pretty sure the movers will do a superb job of insuring that I need a full calibration after I get where ever I end up.

Besides, I'll be away from home for 8 of the next 12 months. As long as the TV turns on, the wife and kids will be happy.

I may have to take you up on the offer next fall though.

BTW, I was in Mountain View from Dec 94 thru Dec 97. Looks like we've gone in the opposite direction...

Jeff

BTW, I was in Mountain View from Dec 94 thru Dec 97. Looks like we've gone in the opposite direction...

Jeff


Darn! During those years I was in Belmont, just a hop skip and jump!


Mr Bob

Ok, got an odd issue that I hope someone can help with... I have a Hitachi 51S500 that I have had for about 3 years now. While watching HD football, if the bright orange yardage marker goes off the left side of the screen, or comes into the picture from the left side of the screen... just as it gets to the very edge... I get an odd "streak" across the entire picture. It does not do it when the yardage marker goes off the right side... only the left. I have noticed this on both 1080i (CBS) and 720p source (Fox). I have yet to notice it in SD, OR other sources (DVD).

Any thoughts? It can be rather annoying depending on the game and how "bright it is" based on the sun / time of day etc.

The ONLY thing that seems to help the effect I am seeing is forcing my DirecTV HD Receiver to output 720p... but I can still very easily see it.

Help...

Heh...kruegs...I was going to post that I've seen reports of the problem before. But then I went back and found it, and it was you! :p http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5004965&highlight=streak#post5004965

Hope you can get it fixed.

Matt

Yeah, thanks... still me. Great memory Matt... The only time I see it, honestly is during football season (and thus the timing of my thread)... other shows that I watch in HD and DVD content are fine. I don't think that it would be my DirecTV receiver... I honestly think it is something with the TV. Hopefully something I can adjust to fix or greatly reduce the problem.

My 57T500 will be 2 years old this X-mas and it still has a awesome picture, I've never had it calibrated, since I live to far from a big city. I just got a 1920x1200 Dell 24" monitor and have a HD-10 D* box hooked to it and I think the Hitachi still has a better picture.
Don't know what the native resolution is but it can't be as good as the Dell.

My 57T500 will be 2 years old this X-mas and it still has a awesome picture, I've never had it calibrated, since I live to far from a big city. I just got a 1920x1200 Dell 24" monitor and have a HD-10 D* box hooked to it and I think the Hitachi still has a better picture.
Don't know what the native resolution is but it can't be as good as the Dell.


It's all in the PERCEIVED relative size, involving the angles with which your eyes hit the screen, created by how far away you sit from the screen and its relative size. If you sit 7' from your 57", like I do by sitting 8' from my 65" Panny, your size will be quite proportional between those 2 sizes of set. Quite generous, like the movie screens at the mall, and only fully calibrated CRT displays will allow you to sit that close and still not see flaws. Those 2 sizes of CRT display will basically deliver to you exactly the same PERCEIVED size of image.

For the perceived size to be proportional in a 24" monitor, you'd have to be sitting probably 3' from it, eyes to screen, maybe even less. If you're sitting 5' away from the 24" and 7' away from the Hit and the Hit still looks better than the 24", that's REALLY saying a lot for Hitachi!


The native res on a Hit HDready - on all CRT HDreadys - is technically 1920x1080, with the limitation that in the broadcast process, according to Joe kane you probably only get 1400x1080. The 1080 stays the same, but the horizontal res suffers.

This may all change with the current advent of the true HD disc, which should deliver all 1920 pixels horizontally at all times, in both HD-DVD and BluRay. Currently all HD disc players take their HDCP cues from the discs themselves, and as such will not deprive component-only displays of their 1080i content unless and until a flag on the disc commands them to OP HD scanrates ONLY in HDMI, not component. From what I've heard, that deprivation will not be implemented for at least the next few years, allowing us component-only display owners to get true, non-upconverted HD from HD discs for quite awhile, still.


For 1080p display owners, it will usually depend on the efficacy of the display's upconversion process, as nothing out right now in the way of HD discs OPs 1080p, only 1080i. The 1080p displays will have the responsibility of upconverting anything that hits them with 1080i, into their native 1080p.

Some 1080p displays also have passthru on 1080p, since it can be generated by scalers such as DVDO and Faroudja, which take 1080i from the source - whatever it is - and upconvert it to 1080p in a stealth grade fashion. Not all displays will be that good at their 1080i->1080p upconversion.


Mr Bob


PS - At 2 years it will be time to start looking into getting your optics professionally cleaned, due to the HV inherent in CRT use. See my website, in the Nuts and Bolts section, for more details on this.

So what kind of person do I look for to clean my Optics?
My area code is 32456, if that will help. I have a 97 Mitsubishi 51"Big Screen that the side's of the picture are bowed in so the picture looks like a hour glass, that I would like to get fixed also if it dosen't cost too much.

So what kind of person do I look for to clean my Optics?
My area code is 32456, if that will help. I have a 97 Mitsubishi 51"Big Screen that the side's of the picture are bowed in so the picture looks like a hour glass, that I would like to get fixed also if it dosen't cost too much.


Fly me in, I'll take care of it stem to stern, including the repair, if one is found to be necessary. I've never seen Florida!

ALL CRT based RPTVs need optics cleaning every year or 2, without exception and regardless of brand. It's inherent in CRT use - all CRTs use HV, which ionizes the air and turns your optics into powerful dust magnets.

There are scads of fellow CRT RPTV owners in EVERYBODY'S area! They all need optics cleaning! Even if full calibration is not done, THEY ALL need optics cleaning. This one op alone - getting rid of the bleariness, being able to see detail in dark areas again, the cleaning up of the haze around bright objects in dark backgrounds, the restoration of GLEAM into your picture again, the restoration of TRANSPARENCY to your depth perception - this one op alone DOUBLES your viewing pleasure, even without any calibration at all. An entire cal tour could be made up entirely of optics cleaning, and everybody would make out.

If 5 people go in together on my travel expenses, even to Florida, the share for each goes down to what locals pay me for travel time! It would be as if I lived in your city already.

Fly me down!


Mr Bob

I have a 65s700 that about 2 years old. Over the last few months the picture has been getting darker and darker. Within the last week the colors have started to become off and seem to have a lot of red. Today I ran magic focus just to see if that would help and it got through the red and green then after green came up with a 4 on the screen. From what I gather that means there is some IC chips that need to be replaced. I have read though that when these chips go bad you usually have convergence issue which I do not have. I can run magic focus in manual mode with no issues.

Anyone have any ideas what may be wrong and what it may cost to have these IC chips replaced?