I have a 65s700 that about 2 years old. Over the last few months the picture has been getting darker and darker. Within the last week the colors have started to become off and seem to have a lot of red. Today I ran magic focus just to see if that would help and it got through the red and green then after green came up with a 4 on the screen. From what I gather that means there is some IC chips that need to be replaced. I have read though that when these chips go bad you usually have convergence issue which I do not have. I can run magic focus in manual mode with no issues.

Anyone have any ideas what may be wrong and what it may cost to have these IC chips replaced?


There are many separate and completely different ops that have to happen, to finally get your image to the screen. Horizontal and vertical sweep, HV, screen voltages, copious numbers of low voltage supplies...

One is convergence, another is picture brightness. I have never seen one have anything to do with the other. If you are not having problems with convergence, then it is completely off the radar to be having that be affecting your pic brightness.

I think the darkening of your pic may be due to the optics needing cleaning. The pic gets a lot brighter afterwards. But it may also have to do with overall picture light level, or brightness in your dark areas.

Can this be remedied by using the br and contr controls in User?

If so, maybe your internal settings for same, in sm, need to be recalibrated.

Or maybe a cold solder joint is getting weaker and weaker, in there.


Mr Bob

You can jack the brigth up but even at 100% its still dark. The red I can not get rid of at all even turning the red all the way down. The screen isnt red itself but every thing seems to have a redish tint to it. I'll have to take some pictures because stuff like whites do not have a red tint to it, but People on the screen have orange skin.

After I did the deep cleaning, everything works OK except:

The red grid lines on lower half is fatter than the upper half. Did I do something wrong when I put back the red lens?

My model is 57S500.

You can jack the brigth up but even at 100% its still dark. The red I can not get rid of at all even turning the red all the way down. The screen isnt red itself but every thing seems to have a redish tint to it. I'll have to take some pictures because stuff like whites do not have a red tint to it, but People on the screen have orange skin.


What you are describing it grayscale, not color decoding, which is what the colors in user are all about. The individual colors they allow you to align are only when there is color being differentiated. On b/w, chances are the reddish tint is at its worst. Put on the original Casablanca and get back to us.

If I am reading this correctly, your set needs a grayscale alignment. Time for you to get it to the D6500K it was meant for, plus everything else a fullscale calibration delivers. See my website.


Mr Bob

After I did the deep cleaning, everything works OK except:

The red grid lines on lower half is fatter than the upper half. Did I do something wrong when I put back the red lens?

My model is 57S500.


Nothing about the deeper optics cleaning would cover this, sounds like you have scheimpflug alignment problems, as if your red lens is no longer seated correctly.

Anytime you remove and reinstall a lens, it will be a little off in positioning from where it was before, and your crosshairs will need to be realigned. And if you put if back 180 degrees out, to make the wingnuts be behind the lens rather than in front of it, you'll need to redo your entire convergence paradigm.

But fatness? That's a scheimpflug issue - the angle at which the lens is mounted, which determines the linearity of the focusing, across the screen. On Hitachis it is always right on. On yours maybe something got in there that is preventing it from seating correctly.

On Pioneers, the 510 series had it really bad on the blue. Always. You could get 2/3 of the pic in accurate focus, but the left side was always out of focus.


Mr Bob

All the wingnuts are in front as before. I will try to re-seat the red lens.

Thanks for your help.

All the wingnuts are in front as before. I will try to re-seat the red lens.

Thanks for your help.


While you are in there, be sure to take a black magic marker to the wingnuts, which are still exposed if on the front, if they are up at viewing height. And to anything else in there that is bare metal, available to the mirror.

It's not quite as good a solution to the internal reflections problem as duvetyne is, but it takes a fraction of the time to do, and is a lot better than allowing bare metal to be available to the internal reflections.

How did the regular AND deeper optics cleaning affect your picture?


Mr Bob

How did the regular AND deeper optics cleaning affect your picture?

Yeah, how bad was it in there? What are the steps to get to the lower lenses?

Thanks,
Matt

Wondering if anyone with an s500 has hooked up an hd dvd player and compared component to hdmi -dvi input? Hows detail, color satuation etc, thanks.

Wondering if anyone with an s500 has hooked up an hd dvd player and compared component to hdmi -dvi input? Hows detail, color satuation etc, thanks.
Not a HD-DVD player, but I had my HDTivo hooked up both ways, I couldn't tell a difference. I'm currently using component.

Matt

I had done the duvetyne 2 years ago to cover the whole cabinet including the metal base with a lens hood. The concave coolant “glass” surface was dusty, but I didn’t see any dirt even with flash light. The bottom side of two lens were pretty bad with some greasy finger prints.

The result is not day and night different, but worth the effort. The screen looks brighter and more details in black.

I found that the lens structure is pretty reflective inside, may be due the kind of plastic they used. This is the major source of light reflection I have right now. I guess nothing I can do anymore.

Once again, thanks Bob.

Originally Posted by plm:
I had done the duvetyne 2 years ago to cover the whole cabinet including the metal base with a lens hood. The concave coolant “glass” surface was dusty, but I didn’t see any dirt even with flash light.


Dust is the enemy. Compounded layers of dust, year by year, are what impedes the pic from getting thru unimpaired. I have seen all sorts of things in there, including nests of dead roaches an inch wide in a 10 year old RCA years ago, plus other individual insects, drywall particulates, lint, you name it - but the main problem has always been more and more dust being deposited on the optics every year, as the years inexorably go by, sucked thru any gaps in between the bottom of the lens packs and the coolant covers, by the high voltage's inherent ionization process. Invividual single particulates here and there don't impede anything, because everything is out of focus at that point of the light path. The enemy is a years-thick layer of dust and smoke.

Using the flashlight with the TV off and the flashlight coming in from the side is one way. The light from the flashlight must be coming in from the side, however, to be able to see the dust on the coolant cover. And of course the lens must be already removed and the cover open to the air, for you to even be able to use a flashlight for this test.

The best way to confirm that your concave coolant cover is dirty is with the lens removed from that particular color (never remove all 3 at once, do it one at a time). Lick your thumb and put it half an inch in from the top edge, and gently push upward. Since your thumb is wet, it will not harm the plastic, and it will remove any dust/smoke that's there, where it's touching. Touch JUST the edge of the lens, at the top, so whatever you're doing will not be in the light path, if you decide to stop there because the lens turns out to be clean.

If it's dirty, you'll see that it's blacker in there in that area than the surrounding area, when black is the background and your eyes are off axis, not being allowed to be blinded by the light. There must be a substantially bright picture on the screen for the dust to be visible. If the coolant cover is dirty, the section where your thumb wiped it clean will be noticeably darker than the surrouding area, where you have not touched.

The way to see it before removing the lens pack, with the lens pack in place, is to get your eyes off axis and look into the lens, also with a bright picture on, and be sure to not let your eyes be blinded by the light. Get blackness into the background, inside the coolant itself, and watch for the dust to be backlighted by the picture. If the coolant cover is dirty/smoky, you'll see the stuff suspended on the lens - which is the top of the coolant cover itself, it and the coolant below it form the primary and lowest-most objective lens, coolant bonded to the CRT face - as you move your head around.




The result is not day and night different, but worth the effort. The screen looks brighter and more details in black.




The night and day difference is when both the regular lens/mirror cleaning and the deeper optics cleaning - of the coolant cover and the bottoms of the lens packs - are both done at the same time.



I found that the lens structure is pretty reflective inside, may be due the kind of plastic they used. This is the major source of light reflection I have right now. I guess nothing I can do anymore.

Once again, thanks Bob.




Yeah, I agree, the insides of the lenses should be being treated as if they were the insides of a telescope or microscope, or bellows camera. I have a great, very powerful set of 50mm binocs that are sizzling in their crispness and sharpness - the prisms are all fully aligned, the optics are all pristinely matched up in there. In the daytime I was blitzed by the deal I got on them, and the images they were producing for me.

But soon as I took them to their primary purpose - a live concert - the fact that their lenses were not internally coated showed up, as dastardly internal reflections!

They are still great for outdoor daytime use, so I'll keep them. But for concerts in the dark, with stage lighting and such, they suck big time!

Internally coated optics in the lens packs would make a world of difference in a big screen's ability to reject internal reflections.


Mr Bob

I STILL have the Blue Halo issue with this set, it aggravates me badly.

Is there ANY way to reduce the blue beam spot size, I looked in the Service Manual, and see reference to the magnets, but I have fooled with those in the past(old DV CRT sets), and were mostly for color tilt and such(which are fine on this set).

I have tried defocusing, tightening etc, but to no avail....

Blue Halo exists no matter what.

This is SERIOUS BS IMO, wth is going on here, there is NO NEED for additional width on that Blue Gun in todays day, the guns are bright enough!!

Anyone? Bueller?

Red is the tightest, then green, and Blue is really pathetic IMO.....

I actually PAID for the SM to try and get rid of this BS........

ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH

I have a three year old 65S500 that I'd like to have "Image Perfected" by Mr. Bob. Are there 4 other members living in Las Vegas who might like to get together and share the cost of flying Mr. Bob to Vegas so he could make our sets shine?

I STILL have the Blue Halo issue with this set, it aggravates me badly.

Is there ANY way to reduce the blue beam spot size, I looked in the Service Manual, and see reference to the magnets, but I have fooled with those in the past(old DV CRT sets), and were mostly for color tilt and such(which are fine on this set).

I have tried defocusing, tightening etc, but to no avail....

Blue Halo exists no matter what.

This is SERIOUS BS IMO, wth is going on here, there is NO NEED for additional width on that Blue Gun in todays day, the guns are bright enough!!

Anyone? Bueller?

Red is the tightest, then green, and Blue is really pathetic IMO.....

I actually PAID for the SM to try and get rid of this BS........

ARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH


I am available for paid phone consultation, if you want to try that. As I recall, I answered any way I could under the circumstances of being here, not there.

Sounds like it might be an astigmatism issue, if you have done both your optical and electrostatic focusing already. If during the latter, you find that the spot first gets squished, then gets too tall, depending on where your focus trimpot is set, then it's definitely astigmatism, where thinnest on the vertical is not the same place on the trimpot as thinnest on the horizontal.

Maybe cooties in the coolant?


Mr Bob

Does each color (red, green, blue) have its own gamma curve? My screen looks yellowish in mid IREs, but not in low and high IREs. Is there any simple way to align each gamma curve by just touching CUTs and DRIVEs?

Does each color (red, green, blue) have its own gamma curve? My screen looks yellowish in mid IREs, but not in low and high IREs. Is there any simple way to align each gamma curve by just touching CUTs and DRIVEs?


Personally I don't know if on Hitachis each color has its own gamma curve - I know there are Sonys that do, but few other brands. I doubt it.

Usually the grayscale on these consumer units is ready to get things close but not spot on. It just isn't in the budget. You want to spend markedly more, and you can get linear grayscale all across the board. But usually only TV studio grade monitors, with their attendant super high professional equipment costs, are designed and ready to deliver that to you.

One of the things a calibrator has to be good at is knowing where to do the inevitable compromises, to wind up with the finest picture possible on consumer grade units. In this case that might be determining just how linear it can actually be, and if not perfect, then where to allow whatever offness that's there to be, so as to be least invasive.

The older SD Mits's had a non-linear green in the darks, compared to the blues and reds, which were identical to each other. You then had to choose whether to have your mid grays looking purely 6500K and your blacks to have invasive greenishness to them, or have your blacks be pure and your mid grays be magenta.

I called ISF's Joel Silver about it at the time and he and I agreed: leaving the greens OUT of the blacks was the better way to go, even if it meant the mid grays were never going to be fully 6500K gray. Leaving the greens showing up in what was supposed to be pure black just to keep the mid grays from being magenta, would have been much too garish and distracting.

But it was going to be one or the other on that series of Mit units. No getting around it.


Mr Bob

Well I painted the interior metal plates(holding the 2 sections together) with flat black paint, I painted ALL unpainted wood pieces, I painted the corners, I painted the unfinished strip under the mirror, and ANYTHING that wasn't black.

I also had a roll of some expensive neoprene(3/8") that I used to use when setting up Pelts(to control condensation), this stuff is very black, and has a textured side, so I used that to cover the CRT tray metal(I cut 3 holes around the CRTS, and a slice for the IR), and also built a flare guard(on screen side of crts).
I cleaned the mirror and the TOP lens ( sprayaway on a microfiber rag), and noticed that there were minor things down further, nothing much in there.

I set the OS pots back to 8%, zeroed out, and used the Jig sheet(for sizes) to pull tight strings both V and Horiz.....and redid geometry from scratch..
I did a Mech and ES focus(all 3), and adjusted the beam alignment, and beam form adjustments on the Blue CRT(magnets on yoke)..

End result?

Better blacks, with less spill, better geometry(although it was vg b4), sharper picture, and less overscan(after I finished, sides were a bit less than 5, and the top/bottom were like 4.5 or so) without touching the pots again.....

As you folks can imagine, that was alot of work today, a pre-made jig would have been quicker, but there was alot to do besides that.



Still have Halos, although they don't show up as bad until the frequency is a BIT higher..

O well............

It's actually MUCH better after watching some stuff that showed Halos in the past, on some stuff it is still there, but even then it is not as bad as B4.

Upon further reflection, it was worth the effort I think. :)

Damn muzz, that sounds like a big job!! Congrats on your efforts, it must be gratifying knowing you have the best pic possible. I think I'm due for a geometry and convergence tune-up.

Matt

Thx Matt

Yeah, it took awhile, I had to stripe masking tape along the edges of the Bezel, measure and mark that, and then pull strings (securely taping both ends, under pressure to keep tight) just to do the Geometry, I would have much preffered putting a Jig up there and just going at it, but at this time I don't own one(and I'd think they're kinda expensive, due to it being mylar), I was gonna buy a precut piece(to the screen measurements), and mark it with something first, but I just couldn't deal with the halos anymore!

The set always looked good, but they aggravated me badly(only once in awhile, but enough to PMO).
The whole project kinda snowballed, I was gonna just do a mirror/CRT top lens clean ,but after pulling off the screen, I just decided that now was the time to make everything black as well, then of course the astigmatism magnets were staring me in the face....

I also got some split flex tubing to hide the MF wires going to the MF block(also painted the white cable clips black, including the clips on the back of the frame-the frame clips I did with a sharpie), the only wires I didn't touch were the ones running along the screen frame, but I did tuck them in closer to the outer edge.

I also found it amazing that there are strips of metal in there, where everything, including the screws were black...EXCEPT the splines, which were cut edges/aluminum!!
So I had to run a sharpie over the splines/edges to get them black as well, that took a couple of passes...
Staples/screws needed to be painted with the black paint as well.

The only thing I couldn't do was greyscale(or lens striping, which I ALMOST attempted due to slight reds on the left side-due to red lens being there), which tbo I dont THINK is TOO bad, I believe the bright whites are too hot though(always been hot IMO- and I figured that MAY have a bit to do with my problem as well- could be way wrong there, as the problem exists even with contrast down to almost 0).

This will get me through till I get aggravated again!!

1 thing I did notice, was it LOOKS like there is an aluminum plate down low inside the tubes(a cutout), that is probably pretty far down there, maybe not even accessible(coolant area?).
It LOOKS like the edge facing the opening is silverish.

I WAS gonna attempt to remove the lenses, but I wasn't sure if I could just unscrew them from the metal base( with the 4 screws holding down the plastic outer housing), and take them apart and clean them.

I saw Mr. Bob stated to NOT take off the wingnut/riding post screw to remove the lenses(due to needing refocus... funny thing is I refocused anyway... arrrrrrrgh), and the Keohi guy was taking apart a Tosh lens assembly in his tutorial, so I wasn't CERTAIN what to do there.

I would like to take apart the lenses and clean them all seperately(obviusly being VERY careful with lens stacking-order/cleaning etc) at some time, to see if it will make a difference, when looking down there I DID notice a few small things(not that many)like small fibers, and a few small particles......

I don't wanna screw with coolant issues etc, but it would be nice to do a THOROUGH lens cleaning.

I set the OS pots back to 8%, zeroed out and adjusted the beam alignment, and beam form adjustments on the Blue CRT(magnets on yoke)..

Dude, You're quite ambitious. Can I ask how did you set the OS pots to 8%, zero out and adjust the beam alignment and beam form adjustments?

I'm most interested in how to zero out but the other details would be appreciated.

Originally my set had app. 8% Overscan, I used the size pots(on the PCB- to the right of the Blue service button) to dial 4.5 both vertical and Horizontal shortly after I first got my set.

To Zero out convergence to start from scratch, you push and hold the Blue Service Button(when set is OFF), and turn the set on, this zeros out the convergence.

When you zero out, you had better be ready to do ALOT of work, because there is MASSIVE curvature here, NOT for the faint of heart folks, and ya better have a jig, or be ready to do alot of measuring and pulling strings tight(have to make sure they don't loosen up as well- jig would be MUCH better).

I BELIEVE you can just EXIT out or shutdown/restart to get back to normal, but I am NOT certain of that, and don't wanna be responsible for anyones rig.

IF you are going to do Geometry from scratch(Green), make sure to Write to Rom a few times, as my set has trouble writing TOO much to memory(Overflow error).
I did like half, saved to Rom, hit Mute, continued, saved to Rom etc....
I also did the same thing for red and Blue.

I adjusted beam alignment/form by adjusting the magnets on the CRT neck(as stated, I did the Blue tube only), using a circle and resolution chart(you can easily see when you are out of shape/not aligned if ya PAY ATTENTION), again this isn't for the faint hearted either, because once you start adjusting these, ya have to finish or you will have awful video. Not really advised ( I'd done this before on DV CRT sets in the past, so I was aware from previous trials).

As I stated rd, I wasn't actually PLANNING on doing all this stuff, but once I took the screen off, I figured I may as well do it right then while it was off.

Folks that are reading this, PLEASE BE ADVISED, there is alot of work involved doing the stuff mentioned, and you could screwup your rigs, which would cost you $ having someone to come in and fix it for you.
I will NOT be responsible!!

Great information Muzz. I assume you are getting the value of 8% from a calibration disk like Avia or DVE?

So when you turn on the set while holding the Blue Button does that take you straight to DCAM mode?

Yes

You can use the Blue service button to get into DCAM at any time (when it's turned on of course!).
Good thing to know if/when ya get stuck in Static Mode!! heheh

If you hold the Blue service button and THEN turn the set on, it will zero out convergence(curvy).

I just read that you can hit Surf or PIP twice(after zero out, l do believe you can just exit or shutdown and get Rom settings back- not 100% sure on that) and it will take you back to the ROM settings, but I haven't tried that.

I would like to take apart the lenses and clean them all seperately(obviusly being VERY careful with lens stacking-order/cleaning etc) at some time, to see if it will make a difference, when looking down there I DID notice a few small things(not that many)like small fibers, and a few small particles......

I don't wanna screw with coolant issues etc, but it would be nice to do a THOROUGH lens cleaning.


Don't. I have never seen a lens pack that was dirty enough inside to rate a cleaning under normal usage. The outer lenses, yes, both of 'em, the top and the bottom. And I have fogged up internal lenses by letting cleaning solution accidentally penetrate them, and yes I had to take those apart and clean them. And one Advent projector I saw once had been in a fire and the insides of the lenses had had standing water in them for quite some time before I came upon the scene.

But the internal lenses never really get contaminated with airborne stuff, under normal viewer usage.

What you are seeing in there, those individual particulates, will not impede your picture. Everything at that point of the light path is TOTALLY, WAY out of focus, and as such, tiny individual bits and pieces of stuff have no power to mess anything up. The only time anything in the light path is in focus, is at the beginning and at the end of the light path.

A layer of dust/soot/smoke is another story. THAT is what needs to be cleaned, and it can be on the bottoms of the lenses and the CRT coolant covers as well as the tops of the lenses and mirror. If any of those 2 surfaces - per color - under the lenses ARE dirty, then cleaning just the mirror and lens tops only gets half the dirt removed. If there really is a matting of dust/soot/smoke under the lenses, it will still show up very badly in the picture. You will have made an improvement with cleaning the mirror and lens tops, but if there's dirt down below, it'll still contribute to major bleariness in your picture.

Don't bother taking the lenses apart just to routinely clean them. You're taking too great a chance that something serious could go wrong, with absolutely no upside to doing so.


Mr Bob

OK Bob, Thx.

There isn't much in there, I kinda figured what you said.

Maybe I'll just pull off the assembly and clean the Lower(under), and the coolant cover.

Where is that metal cutout I mentioned(looks metal), is that in the coolant area, or am I actually seeing the CRT tray cutout there?

Thx Again

m

OK Bob, Thx.

There isn't much in there, I kinda figured what you said.

Maybe I'll just pull off the assembly and clean the Lower(under), and the coolant cover.

I assume you mean "of each color". If so, be sure to do them one at a time, so you can't possibly get them mixed up. Each lens is critically set in its focus, for only its CRT. If you mix them up, you have to redo the focuses, which also means the size of the pic can change in response to that on each color - it's what happens any time you redo the focuses. This resizing obviously messes with your convergence. If you keep them each done COMPLETELY one at a time, completed before you go on to the next, you won't have to worry about that.

Any time you do this, you are taking a chance on unscrewing the wrong screws and having coolant spill out. It's one of the hazards I am encouraging you to avoid, in not taking the lenses apart.

There is a way to tell whether you need to go inside for the deeper optics cleaning - you get your eyes off axis so you're not being blinded by the projected image, let a strong light level image be on the screen, and see if that backlights any dust/soot/smoke on the coolant cover/rear of the lens pack, as you're looking down into the lens but not into the light path.

If so, it probably needs cleaning in there. If not, it probably doesn't.

Where is that metal cutout I mentioned(looks metal), is that in the coolant area, or am I actually seeing the CRT tray cutout there?

Thx Again

m


I have no idea what you're talking about.


Mr Bob

I did look off axis, but I didn't notice anything weird like a film or anything.
Maybe I'll take another peak in there later.

Edit: I swear I saw a cutout of some kind, and it looked like the cutout edge(cut edge-interior of a hole) was the color of aluminum/sheetmetal.... I dunno, but when I go poke around in there to look for a haze, I'll take another look at it.

Edit2: Upon reflection, am I seeing the silver colored paint(or whatever that is) that lines the crt glass(seen from the bottom/rear)?
Thx again Bob

m

I did look off axis, but I didn't notice anything weird like a film or anything.
Maybe I'll take another peak in there later.

Edit: I swear I saw a cutout of some kind, and it looked like the cutout edge(cut edge-interior of a hole) was the color of aluminum/sheetmetal.... I dunno, but when I go poke around in there to look for a haze, I'll take another look at it.

Edit2: Upon reflection, am I seeing the silver colored paint(or whatever that is) that lines the crt glass(seen from the bottom/rear)?
Thx again Bob

m


Instead of CRT glass, do you mean the coolant cover glass? (probably plastic)

The CRT is inside the coolant, way under the coolant cover and unavailble to the touch without removing the coolant - again a highly, highly discouraged move.

Anything available to the light path - edges, surfaces etc. - should ideally be flat black. If it's not, take a black Sharpie pen to it and make it as non-reflective as possible.

If you go in and are still not sure you are seeing dirt on the top face of the coolant cover, lick your thumb and make a half-inch mark with it on the topmost, farthest away edge of the cover itself. Keeping it on the uppermost edge keeps it virtually completely out of the light path.

If while being strongly backlit with bright video program material that mark is noticeably darker than the surrounding areas, the rest of it needs cleaning as well. If not, touch it no further and get outa there.



Mr Bob

I'm not messing with the coolant, thats for sure.

Thx Bob

m

I found a way to align the blue gamma curve with the red and green in mid-IREs. After I electronically defocused the blue slightly, I have a brighter screen than before. The screen was pretty dull if blue was tightly focused. Am I doing the right thing to compensate the blue mid-IRES fall off?

My daughter just scratched up my protective screen on my Hitachi 51S500. It is almost unwatchable now.

Since it is only 3 years old, I'm not ready to replace it. According to the authorized Hitachi repair centers, I can only buy a complete screen assembly which includes the lenticular screen. It will cost me $600 with installation. Needless to say, it does not make sense to sink $600 into a TV that is probably only worth $1000.

Does anyone have a protective screen they are not using? I will pay for it plus the shipping costs. I know many of you without kids or pets have removed the screen for a better picture. That is not an option for me as my kids would probably destroy the underlying screen.

Please help. Thanks.

As a follow-up to my last message, if I can't get a new protective screen, I think I will just have to take off my current one and hope for the best.

I know there were instructions posted on this forum regarding how to remove the screen. I searched but I couldn't find them. Can anyone direct me to the right message or repost the instructions. I need detailed instructions as I'm not that mechanically inclinded.

Thanks for the help.

I found a way to align the blue gamma curve with the red and green in mid-IREs. After I electronically defocused the blue slightly, I have a brighter screen than before. The screen was pretty dull if blue was tightly focused. Am I doing the right thing to compensate the blue mid-IRES fall off?


There's no simple answer to that question, but I'll do my best.

This phenom is true of all CRT triple-gun sets, FPTV or RPTV. The blue focusing inversely mimics the blue drive in the whites.

You can get to true D6500K either way - by defocusing the blue to increase whites or by goosing up the blue drive to increase whites. Either way, the bright whites are all that change.

The real question is, is your grayscale at D6500K - all up and down the IRE scale of brightness - with the blue focused or defocused? Yes of course it will be brighter - blue white will be hotter - with the blue slightly defocused, but will it be real, will the whites and slightly darker grays be true?

That's where being adept at the very convoluted art of grayscale comes in. If I were to play with your set and test for it with my comparation and/or color analyzer equipment, I could answer your question, and get you to true D6500K one way or the other.

Otherwise it's a judgment call on your part.


Mr Bob

There's no simple answer to that question, but I'll do my best.

This phenom is true of all CRT triple-gun sets, FPTV or RPTV. The blue focusing inversely mimics the blue drive in the whites.

You can get to true D6500K either way - by defocusing the blue to increase whites or by goosing up the blue drive to increase whites. Either way, the bright whites are all that change.

The real question is, is your grayscale at D6500K - all up and down the IRE scale of brightness - with the blue focused or defocused? Yes of course it will be brighter - blue white will be hotter - with the blue slightly defocused, but will it be real, will the whites and slightly darker grays be true?

That's where being adept at the very convoluted art of grayscale comes in. If I were to play with your set and test for it with my comparation and/or color analyzer equipment, I could answer your question, and get you to true D6500K one way or the other.

Otherwise it's a judgment call on your part.


Mr Bob


All that being said, the defocusing of blue only affects the whites. It does not affect the mid-IREs - which is I think what you were trying to realign - except to a very limited degree.

It doesn't affect the darks at all.


Mr Bob

My daughter just scratched up my protective screen on my Hitachi 51S500. It is almost unwatchable now.

Since it is only 3 years old, I'm not ready to replace it. According to the authorized Hitachi repair centers, I can only buy a complete screen assembly which includes the lenticular screen. It will cost me $600 with installation. Needless to say, it does not make sense to sink $600 into a TV that is probably only worth $1000.

Does anyone have a protective screen they are not using? I will pay for it plus the shipping costs. I know many of you without kids or pets have removed the screen for a better picture. That is not an option for me as my kids would probably destroy the underlying screen.

Please help. Thanks.


What you would get from Hit would probalby be the same triple layer sandwich you now have, which is probably reasonable at $600.

I have my clear plexiglass layer from my 65" Panny. Couldn't wait to get it off, and don't have kids or dogs myself, so it's been sitting beside my dryer for 5 years, upright. It has one light rub on it 2" long from something gray, which will probably come right off with the proper treatment. Otherwise it is spotless, as it was removed when my set was only 3 weeks old. I would not personally attempt to remove that rub, as these things are very susceptible to being scratched. But again, the rub will probably come right off.

I would like $100 for it, plus shipping. Usually people in my area pay $150 for one new, to be attached with velcro, when their sets don't come with one. It will take some very exotic packaging for the shipping, so I estimate a total cost of $150 unless you'd like to pick it up, here in the SF Bay area.


If you simply remove yours, you can always replace the next exposed layer - the lenticular - if it gets scratched later on afterwards, for probably $350 plus shipping and installation labor, for which I would charge $50 shipping plus $150 labor if I were on the job. If you did it yourself after you received it from me, you'd save the labor, and thus a little bit over Hitachi's price.

I would get you into a similar sized Mit HD lenticular, which is one of the best. You'd have to cut it down of course, as Mit doesn't make one exactly that size. But the lenticular is very very thin, and simple scissors or a box cutter would cut it just fine.


Mr Bob

As a follow-up to my last message, if I can't get a new protective screen, I think I will just have to take off my current one and hope for the best.

I know there were instructions posted on this forum regarding how to remove the screen. I searched but I couldn't find them. Can anyone direct me to the right message or repost the instructions. I need detailed instructions as I'm not that mechanically inclinded.

Thanks for the help.
Found it! http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=320580

Hitachi glare screen removal:

The removal of the glare screen is quite easy.
1. Remove speaker cover (fabric) on front of tv.
2. Remove screws holding front L & R side decorative panels.
3. Remove screws holding front L & R of control panel fascia.
4. Remove all screws holding screen frame in place.
5. Gently lift up and out the entire screen frame assembly.
6. Remove all screws holding frame together.
7. Remove glare screen and fresnel assembly (taped together)
8. Using safety razor or exacto knife "cut" the black tape around the entire
border of the frame. You want to "split" the tape from the glare screen
and the fresnel screen.
9. After separating the screens, apply 3/8" of heavy duty foam doublesided
tape to the edge of the fresnel screen, over lapping the "black" border of
the original tape. Leave the "release paper" on the outside of the tape.
10. Carefully remove the remaining release paper from double sided tape
one side of the screen at a time i.e left, than right, top then bottom.
11. This part requires two people. Insert the fresnel screen with tape into
the groove in the screen frame, apply pressure to the tape to secure to
frame one section at a time.
12. Re-assemble the frame and install on tv.

I am sure if you looked hard enough or wanted to buy 1/8" x 3/8" plastic
strips cut to length you could use that instead of mounting tape to fill the gap. The gap must be filled to firmly secure the screen in the frame.

Sit back and enjoy a GLARE free picture in all lighting conditions!

Matt

PS - I don't know if you could buy some kinda plexiglass material from Home Depot, etc.

Be sure to wear some king of gloves, to keep finger and hand grease off the lenticular. It will soak it up like a sponge and never let it go, and it will show from then on. Use linen gloves like they use at photo places, as negatives do the same thing. Or something made of cloth, even if it's mittens.

The shimming is optional. I removed my glarescreen years ago, and the lenticular on a Panny is much thinner than normal, so there is some soft rippling you'll see if you view it off axis, esp. during credit roll. But shimming would not have helped, as this is at the center of the pic, not the edges.

The focus will not be hurt when you take the glarescreen off, whether you use shimming or not.

DO NOT restack it, by putting it as the rear layer instead of the front layer. The static inherent in these plastic pieces always gets lint and hairs and other contaminants in there between the layers, and it's a pain in the ass to handle/deal with. Last time I tried, I wound up redoing the whole op 3 times before I was able to get all that stuff outa there.


Mr Bob

bigrig, thanks for the directions for the screen removal. I'm debating just removing it and going without one. The problem is my kids just can't help touching the screen (I have a 5 yo and 2 yo).

Mr. Bob, thanks for the additional removal advice and for your offer to sell your protective screen. Since I live in the Philadelphia area, I think a trip to pick it up is out of the question. I'm a little concerned about the shipping. Do you think it would surve being shipped across the country? Also, are these things able to be trimmed down to size?

Anyone else know of any other options? Could I just buy a piece of plexiglass from a homecenter?

Thanks again for the help.

I have a 57s510 and I love it. I'm wondering, though, if there is anyway to adjust how large what is projected out there in HD from my HD cable box beyond the standard settings? The reason I'm asking is that I've noticed on several HD channels that the little symbols of the channel aren't fully displayed sometimes even with the TV in 16:9 standard. Is there some internal setting that can zoom in and out slightly? Or is there something with the signal that displays it in something not exactly 16:9?
Also, should the 4:3 pictures be exactly centered? It looks to me that my left bar is bigger than the right and have no idea if that's normal or if thats how it should be.

Thanks for any help, and sorry for the noob questions. They've just been bugging me and I can't find the answers.

I have a 57s510 and I love it. I'm wondering, though, if there is anyway to adjust how large what is projected out there in HD from my HD cable box beyond the standard settings? The reason I'm asking is that I've noticed on several HD channels that the little symbols of the channel aren't fully displayed sometimes even with the TV in 16:9 standard. Is there some internal setting that can zoom in and out slightly? Or is there something with the signal that displays it in something not exactly 16:9?
Also, should the 4:3 pictures be exactly centered? It looks to me that my left bar is bigger than the right and have no idea if that's normal or if thats how it should be.

Thanks for any help, and sorry for the noob questions. They've just been bugging me and I can't find the answers.



What you are talking about is overscan, and all CRT HDready RPTVs come with it. It deprives you of part of your picture at the edges. Ceiling pjs have no problem, they will show you the entire pic and then some. But not RPTVs.

Part of the options I offer in my cals is to take in that overscan to levels we have found to be possible and much more tolerable, which hover around 4-4.5% on DVD, via AVIA. On HD, you have to do it by resizing the HD picture you get, appropriately.

Wish there were some way to just take in that overscan without it trashing your picture, but it does trash your picture and your pic then needs to be re-set up properly, involving resizing, geometry and convergence. It takes several hours extra to do both scanrates, which is why I charge extra for it.

But it has perks - not only does it reveal lost areas of pic that you have never seen before, it densilizes your pixel pack, making it denser and thus more high resolution. Once completely redone, of course...


To see if you are centered correctly, use AVIA for DVD, and/or 480i/480p. For HD, after you have accurately centered your HD image, the sidebars on SD may be correctly centered or not, depending on which channel you are on. I would prioritize the HD centering, myself, and let the SD centering on HD channels fall where it may.


Mr Bob

What are folks with the S5/700 using as a center channel shelf?
I just got an Ascend 340SE center, and it's too heavy for top of the TV.

I obviously need to transfer the weight to the ends and rear, but the rear of this TV is sloped hard(and the mirror is right behind it, albeit a wee bit lower).
I know I could come up with SOMETHING, but I'd like to hear/SEE what folks are EFFECTIVELY using now for reference.

Thanks

m

I May just get this and be done with it:
http://store.videomountstore.com/hedudoarmtvw.html

I May just get this and be done with it:
http://store.videomountstore.com/hedudoarmtvw.html

This looks like exactly what I need too. Until yesterday I was the owner of the 2001 Toshiba 57H81 big RPTV. I sold it and today I ordered the Hitachi 65F59 (65" CRT RPTV). However, my center channel (which I kept on top of the Toshiba) is the huge Klipsch RC-7 (reference series). This guy is 26" wide and 12" deep and weighs 44 lbs. I don't want to put that beast on the new Hitachi. So, this product seems like it would work since they claim it should hold upto 75 lbs. However, you need to get the 2-stud mounting kit also.

http://store.videomountstore.com/up-1.html

If you are already doing it, please let me know how it goes so I could do it too.

I can hold off for a few days.

Thanks.

I actually wont need that, and neither do you actually(Unless ya want it).

I have access to the studs on the BACKSIDE of that wall, I will just bridge the gap between the 2 nearest studs, and bolt through the drywall, into the bridge/brace.

You could also use a strong hardwood(or double it up if ya feel it's necessary) on the finished side to bridge 2 studs, and screw to that as well, it could then be painted to match the wall if need be.

That way you could actually use a decorative piece of wood,carved to your shape, with a bandsaw or jigsaw, and sanded, and make it look like a plaque.

IMO it would look a hell of alot better than that black thing, but hey, thats just me.

Thats totally up to you.

I May just get this and be done with it:
http://store.videomountstore.com/hedudoarmtvw.html


This looks great! I have bowed my 65" Panny's top in with the weight of my AV receiver - went from a Panny to an Outlaw, which is twice as heavy! - PLUS my Braun center channel spkr - plus other equipment on both sides - and with my new 73" Mit arriving tomorrow, don't want to do it again.

Why wouldn't using a single stud work, with at least two 3/8" thick, 4.5" long bolts? Of course my home's wall was built in the 50's and is 2x4 wood; yours may be metal, which is nowhere near strong enough...


Mr Bob

1 2x4 would hold it, but obviously spreading the load over 2 studs would be much better.
Plus the fact is, that you would be EXTREMELY lucky to have 1 stud centered over(behind) the set(for a str8 out shot), now this unit does swing, so there is leeway, but I could be as far as 8" away ( 2x4- 16" OC),and I have an old, unused electric heater behind my set, so I am loosing depth to the wall.
My screen is 31" away from the wall, and I obviously want the speaker to be flush with the screen, if I am off center too far, it will not make it to the screen front(in the center), since this only telescopes to 32"(which is pretty far!! heheh).

Edit: I will probably just bridge the gap with a section of 4x4(I already have), as it will give me more wood to BITE when toeing ( screws though).
Any serious weight is best spread between 2 or more studs.

Your signature mentions BD. What's BD? I would call BluRay BR, so it must be something else...


Mr Bob

Yes Bob, BD is in reference to BluRay

BTW Bob-

I wouldn't PERSONALLY use (2)- 3/8 X4.5 inch lag bolts in a very small span of a single stud, you risk cracking the wood(especially if they are not staggered).
1/4" lags are already overkill in reality, and even then, 2 of them over a short span, is not really recommended(I'm talking close- which that mount would be).
By me at least, I'm sure other opinions will vary, but I've done enough of woodwork to see wood split, and close lagging along the same line has a habit of that..

Just a thought...

BTW Bob-

I wouldn't PERSONALLY use (2)- 3/8 X4.5 inch lag bolts in a very small span of a single stud, you risk cracking the wood(especially if they are not staggered).
1/4" lags are already overkill in reality, and even then, 2 of them over a short span, is not really recommended(I'm talking close- which that mount would be).
By me at least, I'm sure other opinions will vary, but I've done enough of woodwork to see wood split, and close lagging along the same line has a habit of that..

Just a thought...


I always pre-drill the hole for any bolt that thick. No splitting allowed... Holds it supertight, and no fatiguing of any kind.


Mr Bob

MOST folks don't drill a pilot hole(for anything!!), thats a big problem.

MOST folks don't drill a pilot hole(for anything!!), thats a big problem.


Yeah, works like a charm, in preserving the strength of the timbers...


Mr Bob

I have the Hitachi 57S700 and I notice at times some shows have a reddish tint to the picture making flesh tones look terrible, but I can change to another channel and they look fine, both channels OTA.

What about the red tint is this just how it is with some channels?

I have the avia dvd but have not used it for the video I have used it for audio.

The tv is now abut 2 years old.

I have used the auto calibration feature ( magic focus ).

Do you think It is time to use the avia dvd and if so which part should use?

Also I notice that sound and picture are off on a HD channel. I get one channel in HD and regular OTA. The analog channel never has a problem but sometimes the HD channel will have the problem. What causes that? Anything that I can do about it?

Thanks
tv4u

Also I notice that sound and picture are off on a HD channel. I get one channel in HD and regular OTA. The analog channel never has a problem but sometimes the HD channel will have the problem. What causes that? Anything that I can do about it?

Thanks
tv4u


This is very common with HD. Don't know what can be done about it, tho I have seen some of the newer AV receivers having a delay circuit for just that purpose. Think they called it a lip sync correction or something.


Mr Bob

Mr Bob,

I have been reading your post here on and off for sometime now and you always seem so knowledgable. Would you take a look at another post of mine located here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=765615

Thanks for all your information.
tv4u

Mr Bob,

I have been reading your post here on and off for sometime now and you always seem so knowledgable. Would you take a look at another post of mine located here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=765615

Thanks for all your information.
tv4u


I just glanced at it, but it seems to be very detailed and possibly quite convoluted.

I am available for paid phone consultation on such things. Let me know if you want more info on that.


Mr Bob

I will be in Portland OR for Xmas from the 20th to the 28th of December, 2006. Coming right up.

Anyone who wants calibration or repair work done on their HDreadys while I'm there, should get ahold of me posthaste.


One more thing.

ALL CRT RPTVs need professional-grade optics cleaning every few years, due to the ionization caused by the 30K of HV inside, inherent in CRT use. This turns your optics into powerful dust magnets every minute the set is on. I recommend getting it done every year, which will keep it looking fresh and young forever.

If yours is 3 years old or older and you have not had your optics cleaned you are WAY behind, and are not seeing your set looking as it should. There's a bleariness to your pic that you shouldn't have to tolerate. Having your optics cleaned is like fast forwarding out of the underwater murky scenes in Finding Nemo to the crystal clear out of water scenes later on in the movie. It makes a dazzling difference in your picture.

Be sure to contact me for optics cleaning, even if you don't intend to have a calibration done on your set, if you own a CRT RPTV of any age past 2 years old. It is a fraction of the cost of a full calibration, and what it does cost should be simply chalked up to periodic maintenance of a multi-thousand dollar piece of gear.


Mr Bob

Hey guys and gals, I am trying to remove the black background from closed captioning ans if possible, move it closer to the bottom of the screen.

If anyone else in the Florida Panhandle that would like to have Mr. Bob flown out and set-up there HD TV's or Big Screens please let me know, I have a new beach house I'll let him use for nothing and I'll drive him around to everyones house.



Sounds fun to me!

:)

Mr Bob

I email a guy that lives about a 100 miles away and this is what he said it would cost and what he will do. Does this sound right?

I do not find that model number in my calibration information, but I will check with Sencore on Tuesday to be sure they can furnish me the calibration information on your TV. There are two schools of thought on cleaning optics, one for and oneagainst. Unless there is some very strong reason to clean them I do notrecommend it and would only recommend it be done by a Hitachi trained servicetechnician if it is necessary. A complete calibration of two inputs(cable, satellite, or antenna and DVD are usually the two that are done) runs$250. If you need more than two inputs there would be a small additionalcharge. Travel to Port St. Joe Beach would be an additional $50 for atotal of $300 (there is no tax on calibration). We have the Sencore VP403High Definition Signal Generator which produces the necessary test patterns andthe CP5000 Color Analyzer which reads the grey scale tracking of the display. We use special codes to access the service menu on the TV to make adjustmentsnot available in the consumer menu. Grey scale tracking (black to whitelevel) and color and hue are calibrated to industry standards set by motionpicture and television engineers. This results in a picture with accuratecolor and brightness, and contrast that allow you to see detail of objects inshadows without the picture appearing “washed out”. When a TVis fresh out of the box, the brightness and usually the contrast are set muchtoo high. This gives a set that will look very bright on the showroomfloor under fluorescent lights but produces an inaccurate picture and causesextra stress on high pressure bulbs and phosphors resulting in premature agingor failure. Also, because the fluorescent lighting makes the pictureappear bluish the red is often set too high to compensate. This isreferred to as “red push”.

I email a guy that lives about a 100 miles away and this is what he said it would cost and what he will do. Does this sound right?

I do not find that model number in my calibration information, but I will check with Sencore on Tuesday to be sure they can furnish me the calibration information on your TV. There are two schools of thought on cleaning optics, one for and oneagainst. Unless there is some very strong reason to clean them I do notrecommend it and would only recommend it be done by a Hitachi trained servicetechnician if it is necessary. A complete calibration of two inputs(cable, satellite, or antenna and DVD are usually the two that are done) runs$250. If you need more than two inputs there would be a small additionalcharge. Travel to Port St. Joe Beach would be an additional $50 for atotal of $300 (there is no tax on calibration). We have the Sencore VP403High Definition Signal Generator which produces the necessary test patterns andthe CP5000 Color Analyzer which reads the grey scale tracking of the display. We use special codes to access the service menu on the TV to make adjustmentsnot available in the consumer menu. Grey scale tracking (black to whitelevel) and color and hue are calibrated to industry standards set by motionpicture and television engineers. This results in a picture with accuratecolor and brightness, and contrast that allow you to see detail of objects inshadows without the picture appearing “washed out”. When a TVis fresh out of the box, the brightness and usually the contrast are set muchtoo high. This gives a set that will look very bright on the showroomfloor under fluorescent lights but produces an inaccurate picture and causesextra stress on high pressure bulbs and phosphors resulting in premature agingor failure. Also, because the fluorescent lighting makes the pictureappear bluish the red is often set too high to compensate. This isreferred to as “red push”.


All due respect, this is obviously the standard ISF calibration and includes nothing about the image structure, which is a critical part of Image Perfection calibrations, and the greater part of it, at that.

The ISF calibration he is speaking of is included in all Image Perfection calibrations, but is only part of what I do. It is along with, and added to, the all too cirtical image structure aspects, which cannot be done for the kind of pricing he's talking about.


If anyone has doubts as to whether their set needs optics cleaning, there's a set of before and afters on a 7 year old Pioneer available. They were taken the same day, before and after one of my calibrations. (I am not at home, and cannot import both pix to this location from the originals, which I will try to do after I'm back home from Portland on the 28th.)

Go to this link and see post #705.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=695922&page=24&pp=30

Optics cleaning is ABSOLUTELY essential on any CRT RPTV 3 years old or older. This applies to all brands and all sizes of CRT based RPTVs, no matter what. There are no 2 ways about it, and these 2 pix will prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt. Go to my website, below, to see why.


As far as the red push situation goes - and all Hit's are imbued with red push at the factory, just like all Mit's are - Hit's are emminently equipped and responsive to re-alignment of the color decoding parameters if you know what you are doing, but again this is not taught at ISF, even tho just like above, it is mentioned. I was personally taught how by a former video cameraman, who had to realign his cameras before every shoot. When I am done with a Hitachi and have been given clearance for the proper extras, it has 100% perfectly linear color decoding, with silky smooth and completley accurate color rendition, without a trace of red push, or any other kind of push or pull/diminish. (Red push is the same as blue-green diminish when the fleshtones are prioritized, and totally vaporizes and makes invalid the blue isolation/filter test. It/the "blue filter test" cannot be used nor trusted when red push is present. Accurate fleshtones are absolutely essential to suspension of disbelief, and have to be absolutely prioritized.

With an accurate, linear color decoding paradigm, you don't have to worry about that, it's all taken care of.)


Image Perfection calibrations have all of this available, along with CRT monochrome scheimpflug and astigmatism correction, wherever necessary.

All due respect, I do not believe the services mentioned above even come close to an Image Perfection calibration.


Mr Bob

If you'd like to see what I am really capable of on Hitachis, please see one man's take on one I just did. His.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=762998

Mr Bob

This Christmas eve I have some concerns about my 3 1/2 yr. old Hit. 57S500 and regretfully can only say I have friends in the Bay area where Mr. Bob is.

After more than 40 mos. of faithful service, it suddenly without notice has tremendously dimmed on me virtually overnight. Where up until early last week I ran the Brightness setting on the night mode at about 45 or lower, now I take it to 100 without any great brightening. The r-b-g guns seem fine when I run Magic Focus and HD pictures are still sharp and well delineated; but I notice the SD gray sidebars and the APG gray background now have a definite bluer hue I can't change. The CBS Bronco game's HD PQ today was great, but I couldn't change the overly dark shadows in Invesco Field even at about 85% brightness.

I hope it may be a grayscale setting, but I won't touch that until about a minute after the Super Bowl. It's never been calibrated or optically cleaned and if the latter is a problem, I surely would have noticed a diminution in brightness over time. But nothing until a few days ago.

Well, that's my rant for today. I still have much to be grateful for, living out here in the Shenandoah Valley at about 1800 ft. elevation and unhappily 150 miles from the nearest certified ISF calibrator. And my solid OTA reception is coming from almost the same distance away. I'll try to keep this thread posted on the travails and great cost I'm sure of bringing this Hit. back to peak through a proper -- I hope -- calibration and cleaning, plus through any desperate grayscale forays on my own -- gulp -- into the service menu! :(

plus through any desperate grayscale forays on my own -- gulp -- into the service menu! :(


Remember the cardinal rule of all calibrators and DIYers: ALWAYS WRITE DOWN/RECORD/MARK EVERYTHING BEFORE DOING ANYTHING.

You may need to go back to where you started, if you get in over your head.

;)

Mr Bob

Thanks for the important reminder, Bob. Oh, if money was no object and I could tell the wife, Sweetheart, we wanna lay out twice what this great Hitachi cost us, and fly Mr. Bob into Weyers Cave airport and escort him to our house for a calibration and cleaning, a process he describes in a way that makes one think he'll treat our tv as a living, breathing organism worthy of loving respect. :)

Thanks for the important reminder, Bob. Oh, if money was no object and I could tell the wife, Sweetheart, we wanna lay out twice what this great Hitachi cost us, and fly Mr. Bob into Weyers Cave airport and escort him to our house for a calibration and cleaning, a process he describes in a way that makes one think he'll treat our tv as a living, breathing organism worthy of loving respect. :)


What! It's not???

:eek:


Mr Bob

I ask the guy this:

By the way is this the standard ISF calibration and includes nothing about the image structure?

His Answer:

Yes, this is a standard ISF calibration but I am notsure what you mean about the image structure. We do electronic convergence and correction of over or under scan plus any image skew, but donot open the cabinet of the TV since I have never encountered a case where openingthe cabinet was necessary and it could void your warranty. Could you explain what you mean about the image structure?

Is this worth 250 dollars?

Is this worth 250 dollars?
Perhaps a professional will respond here, but below are two good websites with info on calibration. Currently, I'm torn as to whether I need a repairperson or a calibrator as the first order to fix my RPTV's too dim problem.

http://www.imageperfection.com/

http://www.hdtvbychadb.com/about_chad_b.htm

I ask the guy this:

By the way is this the standard ISF calibration and includes nothing about the image structure?

His Answer:

Yes, this is a standard ISF calibration but I am notsure what you mean about the image structure. We do electronic convergence and correction of over or under scan plus any image skew, but donot open the cabinet of the TV since I have never encountered a case where openingthe cabinet was necessary and it could void your warranty. Could you explain what you mean about the image structure?

Is this worth 250 dollars?

Sorry, but this guy sounds like a beginner. Convergence and overscan are image structure things, along with focusing and geometry.

I am sure he would probably get it close, and probably without messing up anything else in there.

I, on the other hand, would dial it in to the limits of its capacities. He would probably not catch any misfocusing, whereas I wrote the Cantilever Technique. I could go on...

You get what you pay for. If you want to skimp, and shop and shop and shop, be my guest. If you hire me, you'll get the job done right, and by a world class calibrator with an international following. Your set will be stunning when I get thru with it.


Mr Bob

Well if I was single and had a couple of grand to spend I'd have you do it. and his web site says he is qualified to calibrate.
ISF and HAA Certified

Well if I was single and had a couple of grand to spend I'd have you do it. and his web site says he is qualified to calibrate.
ISF and HAA Certified


I thought you were chiming in on my coming to Florida. In which case you would only be responsible for cal on your set plus your part of the travel expenses, same as all other participants.

Hard to imagine a couple of grand being part of that scenario.


Mr Bob


PS - perhaps I misunderstood your posting as to where and when you posted it. If you were just asking for info, he might likely be a guy who can do a good job for you and save you some money.

But posting that inquiry right now made it look to me like you were trying to replace me with him, for this trip. Perhaps I was reading too much into all that.

:o

I really want to do this trip. I love cal tours and have never visited Florida, and this is my first shot at doing so.

So please forgive me if I came off as a bit defensive. I just want to stay the calibrator desired, for this trip, with this organizer.

Are any of the Hitachi S500/700 owners using a up-converting DVD player with their sets?

My trusty old 2 yr old DVD player died on me last night and I think its about time I get myself a decent up-converting DVD player.

I read good reviews regarding the Oppo 971 player but people say its plagued with macroblocking issues?

Thanks
Ray

Hey Fragster.

I currently have the Panasonic S97 hooked up to my 57S715 & have found instances of macroblocking when using upconversion to 720p or 1080i. I ended up just letting it do an output of 480p, and that seems to look the best on my set.

From what I have seen here on the forums over the past few years, the problem varies from set to set with that player. What you are shooting for happens to fall on the reverse of that - same series of TV, but a different DVD player.

Best of luck,
CK

Ray -

I think upconverting DVD players are a waste of money for these sets. They already do it pretty well.

Matt
owner of Avel Linkplayer upconverting DVD player (with filter removal mod)

Great timing on your question. I JUST received my new OPPO 970 TODAY! I haven't even hooked it up yet - I'll be doing that tomorrow.

Mr. Bob is coming to my home next week to calibrate my 65S500. A few months ago, I was lucky enough to have all 3 color guns replaced via my CC warranty.

The wife and I watched Toy Story 2 this evening on the OLD Pioneer DV-578A. After I hook up the new OPPO, we'll watch (some of it) again, then wait to see how much better it will look after Mr. Bob does his magic with my set.

I'll let everyone know how things go.

Mike

A few months ago, I was lucky enough to have all 3 color guns replaced via my CC warranty.
As an owner of a 3 and 1/2 yr. old 57S500 that's suddenly gone kind of dark on me, I'm curious what symptoms your 65 incher displayed that caused CC to replace all guns. I take mine to 100% Brightness and it's still not quite light enough. What's more, I flip it to Night setting and it's really, really dark. Previously, there was just a slight change from Day to Night settings.

Perhaps you had similar symptoms to cause CC to say, hey, we'll replace the guns. Unfortunately being off warranty, I'm about 50 miles from the nearest Hitachi service center. What a feat it would take for my wife and me to get that 275 pounder onto our pickup truck!

As an owner of a 3 and 1/2 yr. old 57S500 that's suddenly gone kind of dark on me, I'm curious what symptoms your 65 incher displayed that caused CC to replace all guns. I take mine to 100% Brightness and it's still not quite light enough. What's more, I flip it to Night setting and it's really, really dark. Previously, there was just a slight change from Day to Night settings.

Perhaps you had similar symptoms to cause CC to say, hey, we'll replace the guns. Unfortunately being off warranty, I'm about 50 miles from the nearest Hitachi service center. What a feat it would take for my wife and me to get that 275 pounder onto our pickup truck!


Brightness setting is within the confines of a video jungle chip, where it all happens. The actual light level floor for your set, tho, is set by your Screen trimpots on the focus block. It may have gone defective, or arc'd an impediment in there due to the HV, causing a lowering of the HV that actually hits each trimpot, tho if in the master HV feed, you would see differences in the focus as well.

You can completely max out your brightness control, but if your trimpots are not at an adequate and balanced level on your focus block, you will still not see enough light level in your picture.

Unfortunately the moment you change the position of even one of those Screen trimpots, the grayscale changes massively. It must be done as part of a grayscale alignment.

ISF advises never to alter the screen controls, so you'll have to find someone qualified to reset them properly. If I were in your area, I would be glad to handle that for you, plus do the entire grayscale alignment on your set.

Plus refocusing, image structure/geometry/convergence, overscan reduction, red push eradication/color decoder realignment, optics cleaning, etcetcetc...


Mr Bob

ISF advises never to alter the screen controls, so you'll have to find someone qualified to reset them properly. If I were in your area, I would be glad to handle that for you, plus do the entire grayscale alignment on your set.

Plus refocusing, image structure/geometry/convergence, overscan reduction, red push eradication/color decoder realignment, optics cleaning, etcetcetc...
Thanks, Mr Bob, especially since I've been debating whether to go the repair route first or calibration. Neither one looked good because of (1) Inacessibility to a service center for this huge baby and (2) having to schedule a whopping 3 months down the road the only trust-worthy ISF calibrator I've identified in our multi-state area here in the East.

The Hitachi had performed so satisfactorily since purchase in 2003 that I kept putting off a calibration strongly recommended by you and others. Now I have no choice since, I take it, calibration should solve my darkness problem. Still, 3 months is a long time to await return of terrific HD PQ, especially with playoffs and SB! But thanks again for expert advice from a true expert. And I regret you're on the Left Coast and presumably rarely if ever here in the beautiful Shenandoah Valley.

Thanks, Mr Bob, especially since I've been debating whether to go the repair route first or calibration. Neither one looked good because of (1) Inacessibility to a service center for this huge baby and (2) having to schedule a whopping 3 months down the road the only trust-worthy ISF calibrator I've identified in our multi-state area here in the East.

The Hitachi had performed so satisfactorily since purchase in 2003 that I kept putting off a calibration strongly recommended by you and others. Now I have no choice since, I take it, calibration should solve my darkness problem. Still, 3 months is a long time to await return of terrific HD PQ, especially with playoffs and SB! But thanks again for expert advice from a true expert. And I regret you're on the Left Coast and presumably rarely if ever here in the beautiful Shenandoah Valley.


Build a sweet little calibration tour and I will come. All it takes is a few optics cleaning gigs along with your calibration, to flesh it out enough for the travel costs share for each participant to be nominal.


Mr Bob

Sounds like your set looks like mine did before I had a repair person come to my house, under warranty. He could immediately tell that the red gun was going bad, so instead of replacing JUST the red gun, he ordered all 3 guns. ( I was surprised.)

The picture is OK, but I know it could be better. I figure I have a relatively new set, it just needs to be properly calibrated. I sure was happy that Mr. Bob could plan a visit to my home, since he will be here in Vegas for CES.

I'm not sure if the need for "deep optics cleaning" is directly proportional to the age of the color guns. I mean, if deep cleaning is done to the actual "guns" themselves; then relatively new guns means less of a need for deep cleaning.

From what I've been reading, I can't wait to be amazed at he quality of my picture after Mr. Bob works his magic on it. I'll be sure to share before and after opinions on this forum. I might even take pictures of select programs and share them with the group.

Mike

Sounds like your set looks like mine did before I had a repair person come to my house, under warranty. He could immediately tell that the red gun was going bad, so instead of replacing JUST the red gun, he ordered all 3 guns.
Now this is worrisome because I had thought my guns were all OK since running Magic Focus displays the same vivid R-G-B colors as before. I wonder how he immediately knew the red was going bad? Perhaps if I take the front off and eyeball them in operation, I'll get an indication. But my wife & I removed the glare screen a couple of years ago & I had planned never to go in there again.

Perhaps I'm back to the repair route as the first step with calibration to follow. The dimness does seem to have a more predominant blue tinge rather than any other hue. Oh me, maybe CRT RPTV's aren't as great as I had thought if you're out in a rural area far from service centers.

I guess I could rent a truck with an hydraulic lift, but how to get it down the 3 steps at front door! When it was delivered at purchase from CC, two muscular weight lifters even had to struggle so that's where I'm at in this conjecturing. But congratulations on your situation plus having Mr Bob's soon visit. Please do keep us posted.

I'm not sure if the need for "deep optics cleaning" is directly proportional to the age of the color guns. I mean, if deep cleaning is done to the actual "guns" themselves; then relatively new guns means less of a need for deep cleaning.


Mike


No, the need for deep optics cleaning is proportional to the sealing they did between the removable lens and the coolant cover itself. Many brands, Pioneer among them, leave a 1/8" air gap between the 2, and as a result have the worst time of it in terms of needing the deeper optics cleaning almost every time, since the dust and smoke seem to have little legs and crawl right in there and make themselves at home. Mit is one of the best, as they anchor their lenses in there real tight with no gaps, and as such rarely if ever need the deeper optics cleaning.

Since yours was done recently and with new guns, yes chances are you won't need the deeper optics cleaning. But there's still a layer of smoke on the back of each lens - they rarely clean that, even tho they have the perfect opportunity to do so while in there with everything apart.

We also have to hope the tech was reasonably careful, and didn't leave all sorts of trash in there under the lenses, resting on the coolant covers. Magnified by the lenses these things look like boulders in there. I have seen incredible amounts of trash in there sometimes, having nothing to do with the dust that creeps in over time. They just didn't treat them as if a clean room was needed, which is how you really have to handle it.

I use a camera lens brush as final pass on the coolant covers whenever I do the deeper optics cleaning, before I put it all back together. A clean cosmetics brush would work just as well.

We'll see the condition of how he left it all, soon...


Mr Bob

I hope you do not mind me asking a tech q. If the answer is found in a forum, I apologize for not finding the correct listing. I have noticed that my set has intermittent horizontal noise lines upon changing channels or fast action. It is extremely noticeable on power up for several minutes and it is also noticeable on all vid inputs. I could post a pic if that would help. Thanks in advance for any help that all can give me.

I hope you do not mind me asking a tech q. If the answer is found in a forum, I apologize for not finding the correct listing. I have noticed that my set has intermittent horizontal noise lines upon changing channels or fast action. It is extremely noticeable on power up for several minutes and it is also noticeable on all vid inputs. I could post a pic if that would help. Thanks in advance for any help that all can give me.


Yes a pic would help.


Mr Bob

Yes a pic would help.


Mr Bob

OK. Hope these help. In these, the horizontal lines can clearly be seen in all Vid inputs.

And a couple more

Hmmm...looks like it has the lines on the brightest areas of the screen...

And a couple more


Glad you got the clue as to not using a flash for this type of shot.

The lines are in response to the brightness of the material they surround. What's going on is not just lines - it is streaking. It is similar to how my Panny came OOB, except that mine only happened when the scene was dark, with bright spots in it. Which was remedied under warranty by replacing one cap per CRT socket board with one with 100 times its capacitance value. But that was when OOB. Yours was fine OOB, and has turned bad in the ensuing years.

Chances are, IMHO, that one of your coupling caps in the signal chain has gone bad. Sometimes you get lucky and it has leaked and left a black residue under the cap, sometimes it even smells like fish, esp. when a soldering iron is applied to its legs.

If not, you'll need a scope to find it. And a schematic, to know where the signal chain is.


Mr Bob

Thanks Mr. Bob. Guess I will have to suck it up and call a tech. Anyway all, I have another question, prolly a stupid one. Currently, I have Non-HD DirecTV with Local channels. I have it hooked via S-Video to my Denon AVR-3803 which then upconverts the signal, supposedly. I then come out of the AVR via Component cables to Vid 1. My question is when my locals, or any other channel for that matter, broadcasts in HD, should I be seeing HD clarity or would I have to upgrade to the HD DirecTV receiver? Second, since my Locals are all digital and broadcast in HD most of the time would I be better off just getting a regular antanne and connect it via Antanne C for my locals? I live within 20 miles of all of my locals that broadcast in HD.

Yeah man, just plug an antenna in there and you can see some HD!

A regular definition receiver will be nowhere close to true HD.

Matt

Hey Mr. Bob. Any idea about how expensive the repairs on my set would be if your prognosis is correct? Are we talkin big dollars?

Anyway, went to Radioshack and got their moedl 15-1892 HD antenna and did not have much luck. I picked up about 10 of the available channels but most importantly, I could not pick up my local cbs or abc affiliate, only nbc. But, the NBC was....WOW! So, I am gonna try another inside antenna as I do not want to construct a froggin tower outside...we will see. But let me tell ya', I am now ruined. I can barely watch anything else that is not HD. So, I am really considering going to DISH, over DirecTV cuz they only have like 11 HD channels, and DISH has a 30 channel HD package to compliment their normal 180 lineup. Anybody currently have Dish HD? If so, likes and dislikes? If this is the wrong forum for this type of q, let me know!

Brentman

Hey Mr. Bob. Any idea about how expensive the repairs on my set would be if your prognosis is correct? Are we talkin big dollars?

Anyway, went to Radioshack and got their moedl 15-1892 HD antenna and did not have much luck. I picked up about 10 of the available channels but most importantly, I could not pick up my local cbs or abc affiliate, only nbc. But, the NBC was....WOW! So, I am gonna try another inside antenna as I do not want to construct a froggin tower outside...we will see. But let me tell ya', I am now ruined. I can barely watch anything else that is not HD. So, I am really considering going to DISH, over DirecTV cuz they only have like 11 HD channels, and DISH has a 30 channel HD package to compliment their normal 180 lineup. Anybody currently have Dish HD? If so, likes and dislikes? If this is the wrong forum for this type of q, let me know!

Brentman


Repairs of that type usually cost in the $350-500 range around where I live, possibly less where you are. If your tech feels he needs to "board it" and you have to buy a new board, count on another $250-400 in addition.

Can't take the time for your other question right now, got to make a plane to go back home from CES in Vegas. But you might find some answers in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9452781#post9452781


Good luck!


Mr Bob

I hope people are still following this thread. I'm a happy owner of 51S700 with built-in HD tuner. I moved from FL a couple of years ago to Manhattan, KS, and am trying to get HD recption OTA. I used to get many stations using an indoor Silver Sensor antenna in FL. Now I'm at least 40 miles away from digital stations in Topeka, KS, and trying to get them using a Channel Master 4228 outdoor antenna.

My question is this. I haven't had any luck picking up digital signal even with CM4228 antenna. What puzzles me more is that I get exactly the same signal strength reading from big CM4228 antenna as a tiny Silver Sensor. Both shows 15 max on the signal meter. What does it mean? Is my built-in HD tuner bad? Does it mean that I'm not getting any signal? As I turn the antenna, the meter changes, so I believe the tuner is working. But I cannot get anything more than 15 no matter what I do. I am curious if it is a symptom of a bad HD tuner.

I just want to get some input from fellow avsers before I try to put the antenna on the roof to get some more height.

Thanks!

starlite

I finally have time to report to the forum what happened when Mr. Bob came to my house last weekend to calibrate my 65S50. FYI: I have three new color guns that were replaced under the CCity warranty just a few months ago. So, I understandably THOUGHT it would be a cake-walk for Mr. Bob, and I'd end up with a picture "to die for". Well, due to NO FAULT of Mr. Bob, things didn't work out that way.

After I helped Mr. Bob take off the front screen, I could immediately see the dust on the top of the lenses and on the mirror at the back of the set. He cleaned those until they were spotless. But then, when he looked INSIDE the lenses just to see if I NEEDED the deep optics cleaning, since there is another set of lenses inside, imagine how I felt when he had a funny look on his face, and motioned for me to come over and take a look for myself. I could easily see that the "inside" lenses were severely scratched, like someone had tried to clean a lens with a dry brillo pad!

The only thing we THINK could have happened was, when the CCity tech replaced my color guns, he thought he was doing me a favor by cleaning the top lens of the color guns. He evidently didn't know what he was doing, as the scratches are clearly evident, and these scratches are affecting my set's ability to reproduce an accurate picture in dark scenes. I may not be explaining this accurately, but these color gun lenses are "topped" by another lens, and this is the lens that you see immediately when you take the screen off the set.

So then, we had to discuss what do we do now? First thing next morning, I was on the phone to the CCity warranty dept. They have to send their tech out (on Jan 20) to look at the problem. He'll see it easily and realize that all three guns need to replaced - again - at the tune of about $300 per gun. (Looks like the $348 I paid for a three year warranty is paying off.)

Mr. Bob couldn't do everything he came here to do, but he COULD do a lot - things that wouldn't be affected once the color guns were replaced. And, the results were well worth it. After he had been working on the set for a while, my wife came downstairs and looked at the set and said WOW, what a nice picture. Everything looks "cleaner" and "clearer".

He spent considerable time working on my set, much like you'd expect a "master" to do to make sure everything was as good as it could be. His end result gets a high five from me, and a "10" on the WAF.

Folks, if you do nothing else, have Mr. Bob come over and clean your lenses and the mirror inside. I didn't realize there was a cobweb on my mirror - no &^%%^$. If you've ever had a TV screen get really dusty, and when you finally clean it off you really notice the difference in the picture - that's what it's like to get those lenses cleaned.

I assure you that you're NOT getting the best picture you can get unless you have your set professionally calibrated, and Mr. Bob definitely knows what he's doing. I could see the dimples on the football when I watched my Patriots beat the Chargers! Awesome!

Mike

Just an update on my previous posting regarding HD OTA reception. Now it works... I was stupid enough to tune to mapped channel number when I was measuring the signal strength. I should have tuned into the true channel when I did it. With the help from other AVSers in another section, I now get clear HD.

Its been about 3 years since I bought and had a calibration done on my s500. How often should I have this done? I am getting a Hitachi plasma this week and I thought about having it calibrated after breakin and I was just wondering if I should get the s500 recalibrated while he is there.

TIA

Its been about 3 years since I bought and had a calibration done on my s500. How often should I have this done? I am getting a Hitachi plasma this week and I thought about having it calibrated after breakin and I was just wondering if I should get the s500 recalibrated while he is there.

TIA


At 3 years along you DEFINITELY need optics cleaning. You could probably use everything else as well, tho to do a redo on a good calibration only requires trimup, which runs about half what the original calibration cost, at least using my cal services.

If I found the need for deeper optics cleaning, you would be at choice about having that done or not, if I were there doing it. I would show you what to look for.


Mr Bob

I finally have time to report to the forum what happened when Mr. Bob came to my house last weekend to calibrate my 65S50. FYI: I have three new color guns that were replaced under the CCity warranty just a few months ago. So, I understandably THOUGHT it would be a cake-walk for Mr. Bob, and I'd end up with a picture "to die for". Well, due to NO FAULT of Mr. Bob, things didn't work out that way.

After I helped Mr. Bob take off the front screen, I could immediately see the dust on the top of the lenses and on the mirror at the back of the set. He cleaned those until they were spotless. But then, when he looked INSIDE the lenses just to see if I NEEDED the deep optics cleaning, since there is another set of lenses inside, imagine how I felt when he had a funny look on his face, and motioned for me to come over and take a look for myself. I could easily see that the "inside" lenses were severely scratched, like someone had tried to clean a lens with a dry brillo pad!

The only thing we THINK could have happened was, when the CCity tech replaced my color guns, he thought he was doing me a favor by cleaning the top lens of the color guns. He evidently didn't know what he was doing, as the scratches are clearly evident, and these scratches are affecting my set's ability to reproduce an accurate picture in dark scenes. I may not be explaining this accurately, but these color gun lenses are "topped" by another lens, and this is the lens that you see immediately when you take the screen off the set.

So then, we had to discuss what do we do now? First thing next morning, I was on the phone to the CCity warranty dept. They have to send their tech out (on Jan 20) to look at the problem. He'll see it easily and realize that all three guns need to replaced - again - at the tune of about $300 per gun. (Looks like the $348 I paid for a three year warranty is paying off.)

Mr. Bob couldn't do everything he came here to do, but he COULD do a lot - things that wouldn't be affected once the color guns were replaced. And, the results were well worth it. After he had been working on the set for a while, my wife came downstairs and looked at the set and said WOW, what a nice picture. Everything looks "cleaner" and "clearer".

He spent considerable time working on my set, much like you'd expect a "master" to do to make sure everything was as good as it could be. His end result gets a high five from me, and a "10" on the WAF.

Folks, if you do nothing else, have Mr. Bob come over and clean your lenses and the mirror inside. I didn't realize there was a cobweb on my mirror - no &^%%^$. If you've ever had a TV screen get really dusty, and when you finally clean it off you really notice the difference in the picture - that's what it's like to get those lenses cleaned.

I assure you that you're NOT getting the best picture you can get unless you have your set professionally calibrated, and Mr. Bob definitely knows what he's doing. I could see the dimples on the football when I watched my Patriots beat the Chargers! Awesome!

Mike

Mike was in touch with me early on before my trip, and his wife cooked us up the most blazing pot roast dinner I have had since my Mom died. It was just scrumptious! We had to wait at least an hour before dessert.

He has the cutest dog - he loves feet. You move your foot back and forth quickly, and he growls, darts here and there, and lightly nips at it, screeching when he finally does so. You'd think he was a cat chasing a string!

Their hospitality was fabulous, and I hope to go back to Vegas soon, once his new CRTs are installed.

If anyone else in or around Vegas wants in on that return trip, I'm sure he would welcome the extra help on the travel expenses.


Mike, have you approached CC about hiring me to do the whole thing under your ESP, and get it right this time? I have done such remedial work for both Hitachi and Mit, in the past, when their field warranty techs could not handle the advanced needs of their clients.


Mr Bob

I understand that a calibration does a lot, if deep optics cleaning goes along with it, etc., but I don't understand how replacing the guns AFTER the calibration wouldn't be a real negative. How important is gun aiming, manipulation, and whatever is done to them, to the overall calibration process? Is it 25% of the total job in a broad subjective qualitative guess? 50%? 75%?

By the way, my 57S500 has somewhat righted itself. Watching an NFL playoff game the other day, I was adjusting the color (the green bar in the basic user menu) when the screen level brightness suddenly seemed to get noticeably brighter. I still run it on torch mode (about 85% brightness setting), but it's not nearly as dark & will be OK until I get it calibrated.

I understand that a calibration does a lot, if deep optics cleaning goes along with it, etc., but I don't understand how replacing the guns AFTER the calibration wouldn't be a real negative. How important is gun aiming, manipulation, and whatever is done to them, to the overall calibration process? Is it 25% of the total job in a broad subjective qualitative guess? 50%? 75%?

By the way, my 57S500 has somewhat righted itself. Watching an NFL playoff game the other day, I was adjusting the color (the green bar in the basic user menu) when the screen level brightness suddenly seemed to get noticeably brighter. I still run it on torch mode (about 85% brightness setting), but it's not nearly as dark & will be OK until I get it calibrated.


That's why Mike and I had to collaborate on just how much to do, since you are right, new guns require complete new setup. We elected to mainly do stuff that would not need to be repeated, like color decoding alignment and limited grayscale. I threw in the convergence that made his dimples come out, on the football he was watching. I didn't do any focusing via the Cantilever Technique, like I normally do, nor any geometry nor overscan reduction. Nor any of the high precision convergence that requires repeated passes, on Hitachis.

It will be much better than that when this whole thing gets completed, but for now is still head and shoulders better than what he was used to, till I got there.


Mr Bob

At 3 years along you DEFINITELY need optics cleaning. You could probably use everything else as well, tho to do a redo on a good calibration only requires trimup, which runs about half what the original calibration cost, at least using my cal services.

If I found the need for deeper optics cleaning, you would be at choice about having that done or not, if I were there doing it. I would show you what to look for.


Mr Bob
How difficult would it be for us owners to clean the optics, lens, mirror, etc. ourselves? What is involved in opening the case of the TV to do this?

Thanks.

How difficult would it be for us owners to clean the optics, lens, mirror, etc. ourselves? What is involved in opening the case of the TV to do this?

Thanks.
Just a few screws around the front screen. Actually, you can just remove the control panel and be able to clean the top lenses.

There's some discussion about it back at post #1472 - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7905029&&#post7905029

Matt

...new guns require complete new setup. We elected to mainly do stuff that would not need to be repeated, like color decoding alignment and limited grayscale...I didn't do any focusing via the Cantilever Technique, like I normally do, nor any geometry nor overscan reduction. Nor any of the high precision convergence that requires repeated passes, on Hitachis.
Thanks, Mr Bob. Sounds like if I think I may need new guns, a calibration should be held off at all costs.

Just a few screws around the front screen. Actually, you can just remove the control panel and be able to clean the top lenses.

There's some discussion about it back at post #1472 - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/show...9&&#post7905029
Well, I refreshed myself on that discussion and then my knees started to shake out of fright. Sometime ago I did remove the glare screen, but I'm getting a calibrator, and not me, to go back in there the next time. I'm too concerned about messing something up, especially after reading of the scratches a technician apparently put on MikeinVegas's set. And I don't believe I'm a dummy when it comes to DIY stuff.

Thanks, Mr Bob. Sounds like if I think I may need new guns, a calibration should be held off at all costs.


Well, I refreshed myself on that discussion and then my knees started to shake out of fright. Sometime ago I did remove the glare screen, but I'm getting a calibrator, and not me, to go back in there the next time. I'm too concerned about messing something up, especially after reading of the scratches a technician apparently put on MikeinVegas's set. And I don't believe I'm a dummy when it comes to DIY stuff.


My cleaning techniques are tried and true, and render spotless, sparkling clarity in your picture every time, without fail, making your set look like new again on this issue. But they are not necessarily on the beaten path, and I really don't want to engage in any discussions here on the boards about them. If you want to get it from the horse's mouth, I'm here to lay it on ya. Just give me a call and sign up for a consultation. I will hold your hand on the phone all the way thru the process. This goes for anyone who wants to know.

You display great intuition and cognizance of the importance of the situation on such things, if your knees buckle and shake when you consider getting into your big screen, which has many now-irreplaceable parts that could be damaged with use of the wrong practices.

A consultation's cheap, just a tiny fraction of what anybody's fullscale calibration runs, and reflects all I have learned over the past 20 years on such issues. I have no assistants to get it wrong in translation, it's just me and only me, on the other end of that phone. Call me and sign up.


Mr Bob

Got on board the Hitachi Ho Train 3 yrs ago and have enjoyed the ride.

DVD's Great!

OTA Excellent

No cable or Dish, enough junk on the other two.

Mr. Bob - I am in the Chicagoland Area NW burbs. Let me know when you might have a tour put together out this way. ;-)

Bought a STB OTA Tuner - Samsung - DTB-H260F

Hooked it into Video 2 with component cables, on screen program turns on with remote control on H260F, scan the channels and now have 2 tuners in the old Ho!

Can due PIP in HD with both AntC/Vid2 50/50 split only.

Not sure if I could get it to work with AntA or B but inputs worked with Vid2.

Not sure if this has been posted before or if it really matters, but new tuner can pull in better weaker channel signals. Samsung H260F tuner strengths have been posted on other avs forum.

Recently helped a friend experience his first OTA HD viewing with his 6mo old Sony
KDF E42. He has a Dish Subscription basic an His wife does all the TV & Computer workings in the household and he told me he never has seen the -1 -2 -3 channels.

So when wifey was gone, we went down to his den and got the scan working on his ATSC tuner and lo and behold, he could not believe what he was seeing.

He is fortunate to sit high on a hill with mast outdoor antenna, 50 miles from Chicago and got all the channels.

Have a feeling, their is large masses of people having new sets and not having them set up right.

Go Bears!

Went to Sams Club and picked up an HDMI/DVI 6' cable and hooked up the tuner Just using audio out cables into TV for now.

PIP is now working with all modes of moving little screen around now in HD on both.

I understand that a calibration does a lot, if deep optics cleaning goes along with it, etc., but I don't understand how replacing the guns AFTER the calibration wouldn't be a real negative. How important is gun aiming, manipulation, and whatever is done to them, to the overall calibration process? Is it 25% of the total job in a broad subjective qualitative guess? 50%? 75%?

By the way, my 57S500 has somewhat righted itself. Watching an NFL playoff game the other day, I was adjusting the color (the green bar in the basic user menu) when the screen level brightness suddenly seemed to get noticeably brighter. I still run it on torch mode (about 85% brightness setting), but it's not nearly as dark & will be OK until I get it calibrated.


Deep cleaning does not go along with the basic cal package, tho regular optics cleaning does - deep's a bit of extra $ - but yes, the deep is always available in an Image Perfection calibration. Gun aiming is not done when a CRT is replaced, the bulkhead is fixed, but image aiming - sizing and placement - is 100% important. As is geometry and convergence. The tech didn't do a half bad job at that stuff. If he had not scratched the hell out of the coolant covers, I coulda taken it from there and been done in short order.

Torch Mode is not 85% brightness setting - you need to set brightness wherever it needs to be to fully reveal shadow detail and still clamp to black properly without haze in your picture - but contrast at 85% would be close to TM.


Mr Bob

Mr. Bob - I am in the Chicagoland Area NW burbs. Let me know when you might have a tour put together out this way. ;-)




I appreciate the nod on the boards here, and hopefully somebody else from your area will contact you to put together a cal tour, which I would love to come over for.


Anybody who wants me to flag their area for work in case I am there for any reason, should also contact me directly and get me their contact info. At which point I will record that info in my customer book, flagged for that area. I will not be able to keep track of what's said about this on the boards, like here. Please contact me directly as well.

Looking forward to working with you.


Mr Bob

E Mails sent.

Go Bears!

Torch Mode is not 85% brightness setting - you need to set brightness wherever it needs to be to fully reveal shadow detail and still clamp to black properly without haze in your picture - but contrast at 85% would be close to TM.
I'll bow to Mr Bob on what is TM. But having for more than 3 yrs. run brightness at about 45% and contrast the same, it's agonizing and feels like TM with my hair on fire to suddenly have to boost them actually to 91% for brightness and 71% for contrast.

The PQ's now OK and as the playoffs play out, I'll consider options. The thing is with D* HD Lite and OTA stations multicasting, it's now difficult to get really superior HD PQ under any circumstances. My wife's happy with the HD PQ of American Idol and so what that the RCA Dome is slightly shadowy. :) :)

Well after pretty much flawless operation of my 57S700(minus the blue Halo issue),it's starting to turn ON all by itself, I shut it off, it turns back on in <30 seconds.

Seems like the power supply/control unit is acting up.

Anyone had this issue?

I guess I could rent a truck with an hydraulic lift, but how to get it down the 3 steps at front door!


I just put a ramp there on my 2 step threshold, and my doorway has welcomed in both my 65" Panny and my brand new 73" Mit, both with no problems at all, with one large person at each end guiding it. No lifting was necessary at all.

Make it at least 3/4" thick - preferably 1" thick - and the width of your doorway, with enough extra width to accommodate that your set's wheels will slop the TV a bit to the sides during this op.

I DID have to remove the front door for the 73"...


Mr Bob

I'll bow to Mr Bob on what is TM. But having for more than 3 yrs. run brightness at about 45% and contrast the same, it's agonizing and feels like TM with my hair on fire to suddenly have to boost them actually to 91% for brightness and 71% for contrast.

The PQ's now OK and as the playoffs play out, I'll consider options. The thing is with D* HD Lite and OTA stations multicasting, it's now difficult to get really superior HD PQ under any circumstances. My wife's happy with the HD PQ of American Idol and so what that the RCA Dome is slightly shadowy. :) :)


Brightness is set according to shadow detail in dark areas of a primarily overall dark picture - like starfields - tempered by scenes with dark areas AND high light level areas. Contrast is your overall light level, and is set according to grayscale linearity, focus blooming, convergence separation, and desired CRT life.

What that translates into in the user settings is actually irrelevant, tho ideal is centerpointed, after everything internally is set up correctly. If your current settings render a correctly lit picture, even if they are in the ozone according to their numbers, they are OK.


Have you asked your ISF tech whether he does screen controls?


Mr Bob

Have you asked your ISF tech whether he does screen controls?
I assume he does! His website says his average CRT RPTV calibration takes "6-10 hours", would you believe; plus, my being on a fixed income, it's gonna cost me an arm and a leg. Finally, he says after doing all the things he enumerates, he goes back in and "fine tunes all controls."

But a big thanks, you raise a good point I'll need to confirm: Before he touches, as I've pointed out before, what is almost a living, breathing organism in our house, besides lie detector, drug, and national security tests, I'll turn up the interrogation lights especially bright and query him about "screen controls."

Now if one doesn't think I'm being dead serious, you don't know how much an HD TV football nut I am. And if the calibration will cost what I consider an arm and a leg, imagine what my HDTV setup cost me in 2003! :) :)

I just put a ramp there on my 2 step threshold...
Thanks for the terrific advice -- I stupidly hadn't thought of that! Now I know my wife & I can safely get it to the repair facility 45 miles away!

And if the calibration will cost what I consider an arm and a leg, imagine what my HDTV setup cost me in 2003! :) :)





If it's going to be that expensive, why not just fly me in and be done with it?

You'll be assured of getting it done right that way.


Mr Bob

If it's going to be that expensive, why not just fly me in and be done with it?
My knees are buckling at either cost! Say, I wonder if Mr Bob would be averse to flying real economy, such as any available crop dusters or even those lighter than air experimental craft? :) :)

My knees are buckling at either cost! Say, I wonder if Mr Bob would be averse to flying real economy, such as any available crop dusters or even those lighter than air experimental craft? :) :)


I'd go for it...

:D

Mr Bob

Well after pretty much flawless operation of my 57S700(minus the blue Halo issue),it's starting to turn ON all by itself, I shut it off, it turns back on in <30 seconds.

Seems like the power supply/control unit is acting up.

Anyone had this issue?
I had that problem and it turned out to be my remote control, How I figured that out was I removed the remote from the room about 60ft away. And it stopped.

I bought by 51s700 in Jan04. I have taken the screen off twice to clean lenses and mirror with no problem. I recently bought my son a 37"LCD and noticed that it is showing more of a picture than mine. Station Logos that look like they are at the very edge on my TV appear to be an inch inside on his. I also used the THX optimizer to adjust brighness recently and notice I could not easily adjust to see different shades of black as before. I normally watch TV in the evening contrast 40. I probably use the TV 3hrs average a night 3 nights a week. On weekends during football season It is on 6 hours on Sunday with contrast at 65 until it's dark outside. I never really noticed a deturtation until recently. Any ideas on what I should be asking the service tech to do and what would be a reasonable price?

I bought by 51s700 in Jan04. I have taken the screen off twice to clean lenses and mirror with no problem. I recently bought my son a 37"LCD and noticed that it is showing more of a picture than mine. Station Logos that look like they are at the very edge on my TV appear to be an inch inside on his. I also used the THX optimizer to adjust brighness recently and notice I could not easily adjust to see different shades of black as before. I normally watch TV in the evening contrast 40. I probably use the TV 3hrs average a night 3 nights a week. On weekends during football season It is on 6 hours on Sunday with contrast at 65 until it's dark outside. I never really noticed a deturtation until recently. Any ideas on what I should be asking the service tech to do and what would be a reasonable price?
Mike, sorry I can't answer your question, but I have a question regarding the removal of the screen to clean lenses and mirror. How difficult is this and could you breifly desribe the steps involved?

Thanks.

I bought by 51s700 in Jan04. I have taken the screen off twice to clean lenses and mirror with no problem. I recently bought my son a 37"LCD and noticed that it is showing more of a picture than mine. Station Logos that look like they are at the very edge on my TV appear to be an inch inside on his. I also used the THX optimizer to adjust brighness recently and notice I could not easily adjust to see different shades of black as before. I normally watch TV in the evening contrast 40. I probably use the TV 3hrs average a night 3 nights a week. On weekends during football season It is on 6 hours on Sunday with contrast at 65 until it's dark outside. I never really noticed a deturtation until recently. Any ideas on what I should be asking the service tech to do and what would be a reasonable price?


What's going on with your son's LCD is simply overscan, which all CRT RPTVs have, and fixed pixels do not. It is one of the cornerstones of my calibrations.

Have you looked to see if your internal optics are dirty? If you have only cleaned your regular optics and your deeper optics are dirty, this could cause what you are seeing, as far as the brightness diminishing over the years. The optical path could just not be all the way clean anymore.


Mr Bob

What's going on with your son's LCD is simply overscan, which all CRT RPTVs have, and fixed pixels do not. It is one of the cornerstones of my calibrations.

Have you looked to see if your internal optics are dirty? If you have only cleaned your regular optics and your deeper optics are dirty, this could cause what you are seeing, as far as the brightness diminishing over the years. The optical path could just not be all the way clean anymore.


Mr Bob
Thanks for your response. I actually misstated the brighntess issue. What I meant to say is with THX Optimizer I could not see different shades of white in the boxes. They all looked the same. Brightness works OK and as far as I know so does contrast. I need to correct the over scan? Can this be done with a telephone consultation( for a fee of course)? I have a tech scheduled for Friday but I fear he doesn't know anymore than I do on calibration. It will cost $100 just for him to walk thru the door.

Thanks for your response. I actually misstated the brighntess issue. What I meant to say is with THX Optimizer I could not see different shades of white in the boxes. They all looked the same. Brightness works OK and as far as I know so does contrast. I need to correct the over scan? Can this be done with a telephone consultation( for a fee of course)? I have a tech scheduled for Friday but I fear he doesn't know anymore than I do on calibration. It will cost $100 just for him to walk thru the door.


Not familiar with the THX optimizer, but I do know that if your whites are not discriminating correctly, like in the winged horse at the beginning of lots of the DVD movies out there - then your contrast is set too high.

Remember, ideally the contrast on CRT sets is best set at half the factory max setting. Anything over that usually pushes it out of its linear operating range on several different levels, in several different ways.


Mr Bob

Mike, sorry I can't answer your question, but I have a question regarding the removal of the screen to clean lenses and mirror. How difficult is this and could you breifly desribe the steps involved?

Thanks.

This is very easy. Please do not pay to have it done.

Take off the speaker grill

Remove the screws holding the plastic decorations on each side of the control panel.

Next remove the screws that hold the screen on at the bottom. (The screen will not fall. It has to be lifted to remove)

Caution: the wires connecting the magic focus are connected at the bottom of the screen on your left side as you face the screen. Some people remove them I don't.

I suggest you get a kitchen chair and put it on the left side of the TV. Lift the silver frame of the screen straight up about 9" and swing the screen like a door from right to left. Keep the left side of the frame as close to the tv as possible so that the wires on the bottom left side stay attached and let the screen rest on the chair with someone balancing it. DO NOT TOUCH THE INSIDE OF THE SCREEN.

Now you are ready to clean the mirror and the surface of the lenses. I use lint free lense cloths. Wal-Mart sells them in the optical dept for about $2.00 ea. I recommend you buy three. I also use optical lens cleaner.

Make sure to look for dust and cob webs first. once you have cleared any debris you are ready to clean the mirror and then the lenses.

Spray a small about of the cleaner on the cloth and gently clean the mirror. Make sure you have removed all the cleaner and that you do not see any streaks on the mirror. I'm guessing the cloth will be dirty now. Use a clean one for the lenses.

MAKE SURE TO SPRAY THE CLOTH AND NOT THE LENS!

After you have cleaned all three lenses make sure there are no streaks. Others do deep cleaning if needed. Im not quite that brave to attempt that.

Put the screen back on the same way you took it off. Make sure the wires attached on the left side of the screen are not sticking up. All the holes for the screws should line up perfectly. If they don't remove the screen and try again. This whole process should only take about 15 minutes.

Be careful not to scratch the protective screen with a belt buckle or buttons.

Good Luck

DO NOT TOUCH THE INSIDE OF THE SCREEN.

Now you are ready to clean the mirror and the surface of the lenses. I use lint free lense cloths. Wal-Mart sells them in the optical dept for about $2.00 ea. I recommend you buy three. I also use optical lens cleaner.

Make sure to look for dust and cob webs first. once you have cleared any debris you are ready to clean the mirror and then the lenses.

Spray a small about of the cleaner on the cloth and gently clean the mirror. Make sure you have removed all the cleaner and that you do not see any streaks on the mirror. I'm guessing the cloth will be dirty now. Use a clean one for the lenses.

MAKE SURE TO SPRAY THE CLOTH AND NOT THE LENS!

After you have cleaned all three lenses make sure there are no streaks. Others do deep cleaning if needed. Im not quite that brave to attempt that.

Put the screen back on the same way you took it off. Make sure the wires attached on the left side of the screen are not sticking up. All the holes for the screws should line up perfectly. If they don't remove the screen and try again. This whole process should only take about 15 minutes.

Be careful not to scratch the protective screen with a belt buckle or buttons.

Good Luck


Or the outside of the screen. Don't touch the screen at all! Just touch the frame.


All this is good information, but not quite what I would do.

First of all, no dry method will be the best, and could be fraught with potential difficulties. The way I do it, the grit on there needs to have liquid penetrating it and suspending that grit inside the liquid, floating in it, before being moved. You can use the method above, but let the damp cloth sit on the surface for at least a few seconds before moving it, if you want the liquid to adequately suspend the grit in there, before you try to move it. Plastic lenses are very unforgiving. I ALWAYS spray the lenses themselves, one at a time, and watch very carefully that no liquid penetrates the edges and gets to the lower lenses, where it will fog them up. This is the best way I know of to adequately suspend those gritty particulates in there, and even so I wait at least 5-10 seconds before moving them, to let the liquid adequately soak in.

I have never tried the method above for mirror cleaning, might just be fine. I use ammonia-free glass cleaner and paper towels, which may not be lint-free, but are very effective on first surface mirrors. Not newspapers, which will fill the cavity with lint in the air. Newspapers are the best for transparent glass, like on your living room windows, but not for mirrors inside optical cavities.

It usually takes me 5 passes before I am happy with the mirror being streak-free. Anything left on the mirror can be seen thru the screen. Not starkly or in focus, but blearily and out of focus. If your mirror is left smeary or bleary at all, it will be visible in your picture.


Remember, a mirror is not ever supposed to have been there, in the design. But without them, we'd have RPTVs that were 6' thick. So when all is said and done, to have even the moderate thickness they presently have, mirrors are an absolute necessity, where kicking and screaming, we have to strike a deal with the devil. This is definitely a situation where we need the mirror "so clean it seems to disappear". Combine this with 30 KV of high voltage in there, causing intense ionization - ie dust gathering on smooth surfaces because of static cling, turning your optics into powerful dust magnets - and we definitely have a situation on our hands. An accident waiting to happen on EVERY CRT RPTV, after a few years.

Even a moderately dirty, untouched mirror in there, never cleaned and simply needing cleaning from years of use, causes one eye to see one image and the other eye to see a slightly different image, resulting in eye fatigue. Add this to the thick layer of dust on the lenses after all those years, and yes the need for optics cleaning in EVERY CRT RPTV after a certain number of years is totally and irrevocably absolute.


Mr Bob

Thanks Mike and Mr. Bob for that useful information on mirror and lens cleaning.

I have one other question. I seem to recall that one of the reasons for the red blob and eventual replacement of the LE can be caused by the vents of the LE being clogged with dust. While inside the TV, is this something that is also easy to clean, or does that require removal of the LE?

Thanks.

Thanks Mike and Mr. Bob for that useful information on mirror and lens cleaning.

I have one other question. I seem to recall that one of the reasons for the red blob and eventual replacement of the LE can be caused by the vents of the LE being clogged with dust. While inside the TV, is this something that is also easy to clean, or does that require removal of the LE?

Thanks.

No idea.

Red blob? Light engine? Not something associated with our CRT projection sets.

Matt

After watching the tech adjust my 51s700 I realized I knew almost as much as him except that he knew the codes to adjust the picture. After watching him carefully and purchasing the service manual I figured out how to adjust the H & V size positions using the controls behind the speaker grill and how to center the picture correctly with the remote control service commands. I have solved the over scan and correctly centered the picture. However, whatever he did before he left has left has my magic focus in a static mode. (It was in this state before I messed with the settings) I have two thin lines that make a cross. versus the full blinking screen than normally appears with magic focus. In addition When I do the manual convergence I see that some of the white cross hair lines are bent on the bottom center and at the extreme left side of the screen. Im looking for help on adjusting this. I could call the service tech back but my adjustments have made the picture mutch better than his! One of the problems I had was when I used PIP the main picture moved way left and looked blurry on the left side of the screen. After my adjustments it no longer does this. A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing. I think with a little help I can make the picture almost perfect.

Try this link and adjust your DCAM.

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=1608817#post1608817

It should solve your STATIC MODE problem.

The lines are bent because you have eliminated the overscan too much. You need 4-5% at least.

Just wanted to say thanks for bringing this thread to the front, as I had forgotten all about it. I still have my July 03 build 51s500 and it still holds its own against any almost all newcomers. And even surpasses a few in quality. Buts its been almost 4 years now and I have had to do nothing to this set, so it seems it may be about time. So thanks again, and thanks for the above information about cleaning the lens and mirror. :D

However, whatever he did before he left has left has my magic focus in a static mode.
STL Mike -

I think you have to hit the light blue button on the circuit board to start DCAM. Then be sure to calibrate the sensors by hitting PIP CH (SURF on our remotes).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5035259&highlight=static#post5035259

Matt

Well, I dove in tonight and cleaned the mirror and outer optics and I have to hand to all of you calibrators, cleaning 3 1/2 years of junk off that mirror is not easy work. But that parts done now and it did help some although I am having to still run the contrast and brightness up higher than I would like, so I guess its prolly getting close to time for replacements bulbs. ;)

I'm also having to run my 57S500 at much higher contrast and brightness settings then I'd like. But I don't believe there are replacement bulbs other than the guns. If I'm wrong, I want to know where I can get the bulbs ASAP!

:mad:

My 3 year old 51s700 started to behave eratically as the title of this post stated. In the upper top of the screen, about 5" of screen gets squished after about 25 minutes into powered up. So I power down and the screen comes back to normal. Then the screen gets sqooshed again in about 20 to 25 minutes.

It is out of warranty and I do not know what to do. Please help......

I will post the picture as soon as I get the photo under the 2.00 mb post allowance.

Thanks a million in advance...

:mad:

My 3 year old 51s700 started to behave eratically as the title of this post stated. In the upper top of the screen, about 5" of screen gets squished after about 25 minutes into powered up. So I power down and the screen comes back to normal. Then the screen gets sqooshed again in about 20 to 25 minutes.

It is out of warranty and I do not know what to do. Please help......

I will post the picture as soon as I get the photo under the 2.00 mb post allowance.

Thanks a million in advance...

Send Mr Bob an email to see when he'll be in your area. He's a repair person AND he definitely knows how to revive a workhorse Hitachi to its former splendor. Sure it will cost you, but you get what you pay for, and you'll avoid the extra $$ that would be required for a newer set, financing, delivery, new stand, etc, etc, etc.. He'll be honest with you.


Mike

Send Mr Bob an email to see when he'll be in your area. He's a repair person AND he definitely knows how to revive a workhorse Hitachi to its former splendor. Sure it will cost you, but you get what you pay for, and you'll avoid the extra $$ that would be required for a newer set, financing, delivery, new stand, etc, etc, etc.. He'll be honest with you.


Mike

Mike,

Thanks for your reply.

I am new to this forum and don't know what or who Mr. Bob is. I see you are from Vegas. I live just outside Philadelphia in PA. Does he make arounds the country? I am most definitely interested in obtaining an expert opinion & service if I can manage it.

If Mr. Bob is reading this thread, can you please either PM me or respond to this post??

I could not attach a photo of a screenshot showing the problem as seen for some reasons. Someone please help me ...

Again, Wahhhhh and more wahhhhh !!!!

:(

:mad:

My 3 year old 51s700 started to behave eratically as the title of this post stated. In the upper top of the screen, about 5" of screen gets squished after about 25 minutes into powered up. So I power down and the screen comes back to normal. Then the screen gets sqooshed again in about 20 to 25 minutes.

It is out of warranty and I do not know what to do. Please help......

I will post the picture as soon as I get the photo under the 2.00 mb post allowance.

Thanks a million in advance...

Call in a service tech. I am one. I have worked on computer monitors and CRT TV's but not RPTV's. It sounds like a capacitor problem. If it is, the parts are usually very cheap. Certainly cheaper than a new set. Any reputable company will give you a quote for repairs for a minimal charge. I would go that route first.

Mike,

Thanks for your reply.

I am new to this forum and don't know what or who Mr. Bob is. I see you are from Vegas. I live just outside Philadelphia in PA. Does he make arounds the country? I am most definitely interested in obtaining an expert opinion & service if I can manage it.

If Mr. Bob is reading this thread, can you please either PM me or respond to this post??

I could not attach a photo of a screenshot showing the problem as seen for some reasons. Someone please help me ...

Again, Wahhhhh and more wahhhhh !!!!

:(


Your problem sounds like a thermal, which is usually a cold solder connection somewhere.


I am currently in St. Louis on the last leg of my cal tour, which has included 2 sets in VA, 4 or so in Atlanta - stopped counting, there - and this final one here, which I completed at 3:30am last night...oops, make that, this morning.

I fly home to CA today, laying over in LA and arriving tonight. A thread has been started here on the AVS called, "Mr. Bob does Atlanta". Search it out.

See my website, below, if you'd like to get to know me better - I wrote every word of it, and took the pix in it.

Or Google Mr Bob and Calibrations.

Anyone wanting to contact me, please use my REGULAR email address below, rather than pm'ing me. My mailbox here is nearing capacity. Thanks -


Mr Bob

I am new to this forum and don't know what or who Mr. Bob is. I see you are from Vegas. I live just outside Philadelphia in PA. Does he make arounds the country? I am most definitely interested in obtaining an expert opinion & service if I can manage it.
From the Hitachi website, I found approx. 15 certified service centers within 25 miles in the Phila. metro area. Go to the site and then start calling to see which might be best to help you and at a reasonable price.

http://www.hitachi.us/Apps/ServiceLocator/ServiceCenterSearchForm

Call in a service tech. I am one. I have worked on computer monitors and CRT TV's but not RPTV's. It sounds like a capacitor problem. If it is, the parts are usually very cheap. Certainly cheaper than a new set. Any reputable company will give you a quote for repairs for a minimal charge. I would go that route first.


Thanks for the info...... Let's see if I can now post the screenshot of the problem.

I "down" converted high resolution photos to fit in 2.0 mb rule here....

Call in a service tech. I am one. I have worked on computer monitors and CRT TV's but not RPTV's. It sounds like a capacitor problem. If it is, the parts are usually very cheap. Certainly cheaper than a new set. Any reputable company will give you a quote for repairs for a minimal charge. I would go that route first.

I attached the photos but I do not see them in the previous post. Let me try one more time.

Here they are, I see them now.

Please review and let me know what could be ailing my TV. I can do soldering of capacitors if the problem is directed at a faulty capacitor, but I need to know which capacitor..... I am going to order a service manaul off of the web. Some web site has it for $5.50 in PDF form....

I attached the photos but I do not see them in the previous post. Let me try one more time.

Here they are, I see them now.

Please review and let me know what could be ailing my TV. I can do soldering of capacitors if the problem is directed at a faulty capacitor, but I need to know which capacitor..... I am going to order a service manaul off of the web. Some web site has it for $5.50 in PDF form....


This is in your vertical sweep section, you're not firing on all cylinders, the pic is not going all the way up.

It could be a zener diode not achieving its target voltage, or a bad cap, or since it takes awhile to manifest, a cold solder joint, probably at one of the legs of the vertical IC, since that's the only thing in that section that develops any heat.

If you tap on the vertical IC's heat sink with a screwdriver - set has to be on, BE CAREFUL!!! - and it affects the problem on your screen, you KNOW it's a cold solder joint on one of the legs of your vertical IC.

If so, remedy it quickly, before it gets worse.


Mr Bob

if i just downloaded somebody elses settings and applied them to my tv, would that work or are all tvs (even the same models) different?

Every TV is a little different. Especially CRTs, I think.

Matt

:confused: This is in your vertical sweep section, you're not firing on all cylinders, the pic is not going all the way up.

It could be a zener diode not achieving its target voltage, or a bad cap, or since it takes awhile to manifest, a cold solder joint, probably at one of the legs of the vertical IC, since that's the only thing in that section that develops any heat.

If you tap on the vertical IC's heat sink with a screwdriver - set has to be on, BE CAREFUL!!! - and it affects the problem on your screen, you KNOW it's a cold solder joint on one of the legs of your vertical IC.

If so, remedy it quickly, before it gets worse.


Mr Bob


Vertical sweep? Do you mean the vertical scroll adjustments that the ol' TV's used to have? I am by no means an expert, but why would the screen work for 20 to 25 minutes and then shrink to the size as seen in the picture?

As for this zener diodes, I 'googled' the zener diodes, but it did not help me as I am no electronic person.

Do you suggest that I call the technician and see what he says?? As much as I hate to rely on those 'unrliable' technician, if you think that's the only recourse, I will do so....

Thanks...

:confused:

Do you suggest that I call the technician and see what he says?? As much as I hate to rely on those 'unrliable' technician, if you think that's the only recourse, I will do so....

Thanks...

Remember that there is HIGH VOLTAGE in that set of yours. If you don't know what you're doing, let the tech do it. Better to pay someone rather then be killed.

IMO, that's pure wisdom from Edmonton! And not only that, we spent several hundred dollars ;) ;) ;) for these sets which Mr Bob considers to be living, breathing organisms. What's a few hundred more to get it fixed correctly!

IMO, that's pure wisdom from Edmonton! And not only that, we spent several hundred dollars ;) ;) ;) for these sets which Mr Bob considers to be living, breathing organisms. What's a few hundred more to get it fixed correctly!


"Several hundred dollars" for this set??? Want to make that something a little more realistic, like "several thousand dollars"?

Hit owners are EXTREMELY lucky to be getting the extremely low prices I have been seeing for these sets lately. It was not always that way. Any set more than 3 years old cost in the thousands at that time.

Pioneer owners spent MANY thousands of dollars on their HDreadys back then - like $5000 for a 510, $7000 for a 710 - and are the only owners left who don't bat an eye at spending several hundred more at a pop to keep them going, these days.

Everybody else seems to have no compuctions about dumping their sets according to the price they paid for them and climbing on the fixed pixel bandwagon.

Which is the stupidest mindset I can possibly imagine.

Fully calibrated and their light paths kept spotlessly clean for crystal clear viewing, these sets still rock when compared to ANYTHING else out there, and should be guarded with our lives and maintained forever, including CRT replacement when it eventually becomes necessary. Along with complete re-setup by a fullscale/fullservice calibrator, to get the overscan and grayscale - and focusing - done right the first time, during new gun setup!



Mr Bob

Background: I had Mr. Bob come to my home to rejuvenate my 3 year old 65S500. To our dismay, he couldn't do all he came to do because he found that my coolant covers were severely scratched.

Luckily, I have an extended warranty from CCity, so I called them. They called me to say that my guns were "in" and arranged an appointment for a tech to come out and install them.

Tech comes to my door - empty handed. He says that CCity sent him 3 color guns, but only one was for a 65" tv, the other two were for a 57" tv, and they won't work in a 65". He orders new guns.

Guns in again - appointment scheduled again. This time, another tech comes out, and he has only ONE gun with him. He asked if the previous tech installed the one gun before, and I said no. This guy also said that he wouldn't install just one gun ... but...

He did say that his manager said that if they couldn't fix the problem, that they would exchange my set! I said, as in giving me a brand new set? And he said yes.

He called back later to tell me that his manager wanted to talk to the original tech first, and the manager would get back to me. (The original tech has been on vacation, due back after today, the 19th.)

I'm wondering if CCity is having problems GETTING the color guns, as in they don't make them for these older tv's any more....... or.... it's a misunderstanding on what my situation IS, as in if they could get the three color guns for my tv, then all would be well.

My other dilemma is: I have a 65" Hitachi Ultravision with duvetyne inside, and I don't want them to replace it with anything less than "top quality". I looked on the Hitachi site and other places and their "top" 65" is the 65F59, which only retails for like $1500. I'm not finding real good reviews on that set.

Anyone have any thoughts to share?

Thanks.

Mike

Background: I had Mr. Bob come to my home to rejuvenate my 3 year old 65S500. To our dismay, he couldn't do all he came to do because he found that my coolant covers were severely scratched.

Luckily, I have an extended warranty from CCity, so I called them. They called me to say that my guns were "in" and arranged an appointment for a tech to come out and install them.

Tech comes to my door - empty handed. He says that CCity sent him 3 color guns, but only one was for a 65" tv, the other two were for a 57" tv, and they won't work in a 65". He orders new guns.

Guns in again - appointment scheduled again. This time, another tech comes out, and he has only ONE gun with him. He asked if the previous tech installed the one gun before, and I said no. This guy also said that he wouldn't install just one gun ... but...

He did say that his manager said that if they couldn't fix the problem, that they would exchange my set! I said, as in giving me a brand new set? And he said yes.

He called back later to tell me that his manager wanted to talk to the original tech first, and the manager would get back to me. (The original tech has been on vacation, due back after today, the 19th.)

I'm wondering if CCity is having problems GETTING the color guns, as in they don't make them for these older tv's any more....... or.... it's a misunderstanding on what my situation IS, as in if they could get the three color guns for my tv, then all would be well.

My other dilemma is: I have a 65" Hitachi Ultravision with duvetyne inside, and I don't want them to replace it with anything less than "top quality". I looked on the Hitachi site and other places and their "top" 65" is the 65F59, which only retails for like $1500. I'm not finding real good reviews on that set.

Anyone have any thoughts to share?

Thanks.

Mike


Mike -

What year was your set?

Guess it all comes down to IF they improved the sets as their model years progressed, and if yours is older, you'd get a new one. This would definitely apply on Pioneers, since their final model, the x30 series, was a cut above anything before it. Hit's, I don't know.

Lenses can be of different quality levels, where the edge crispness could be better on one set model than another. Have no idea on Hit's, but it's a good question to get answered before proceeding. If the new one they are suggesting has better lenses, you'd get crisper pic all the way out to the edges than the one you currently have. Dit pitch and brightness on your lenticular might be an issue, but I would assume that all Hit HDreadys use the same fresnel and lenticular in their viewscreens. Another good question to get answered before proceeding. If a new set would actually be a step up, springing for new calibration might be worth it.

New guns can always be procured at Video Display Corp. They have anything and everything in this realm.

A new one would not be duvetyned, and its overscan would still be huge, needing to be taken in. The color decoding I did on your current set while I was there at CES would have to be done over, as all new Hit sets arrive with red push firmly built in. Getting the fleshtones superb was one of the things I did on your set whlie I was there, and on a new set it would not be nearly as good until I got there again, to realign its color decoder. Which would cost extra, just like it did when I did it on yours. Which was why it was one of the ops selected by us at the time - with new guns, this alignment would not have to be done over again, except for maybe a very minor trim, which under these circumstances I would not charge extra for.

Its lenses might be out of focus - the Cantilever Technique usually reveals 2 out of 3 lenses as being out of focus on Hit sets OOB. Your old one has not had me apply the CT to it at this point, so whether or not that comes into play is questionable, but it is in pretty good focus as we speak. Could possibly pass the CT test with flying colors and not need any focusing at all, if the dimples on your football are any indication.

On the other hand, it won't need any optics cleaning if it's brand new, either. And the factory grayscale would probably be better than a field tech would leave it. But if you're having me back to complete the process we started, I'll take care of the grayscale either way. I'd have to start from scratch either way, on the grayscale.

If you have the tech do the regunning, that would be a perfect opportunity for him to nail the overscan to correctness as he is setting up the height and width of your images, so that the overscan would not have to be reduced by me later. This was one reason I suggested that CC pay me directly and have me do the entire regunning process, so that I could incorporate some of the fine points of my calibration in that process from the word go.

Either way - regunning or new TV - the bright "sizzle" of new guns will be with you, as the regunning process will give you new guns in either case.


It comes down to whether a new TV would actually be an improvement or not, and the difference in cost for recalibration, one scenario vs. the other.

The electronics inside will be the same, just a bit newer on a new set. But Hits are not known for failing electronics as the years pass, and they don't diminish in their capacity for delivering accurate voltages, stabilization, etc. as the years pass. They either work or they don't, pretty much forever, unless some repair needs to be done down the line, years from now and possibly never.

Unless they can offer you a markedly superior set than the one you currently own, I'd stick with the regunning process.


Either way, guys, Mike will most likely be having me back to finish what I started, so if you own anything and live in Vegas, get ahold of him for service on yours as well while I am there - even if it's just optics cleanings - which will also help him out with my travel expenses.


Mr Bob

Remember that there is HIGH VOLTAGE in that set of yours. If you don't know what you're doing, let the tech do it. Better to pay someone rather then be killed.

Hi,

I purchased a Service Manual today for $5.50 from on line store. Although I am not an electronic mechanic or technician, I have done some soldering in my early days of tweaking ol' Radio shack breadboards, etc... So I intent on reading the stuff and see if I can tinker with it (first with power off, of course).

Although I spent money for this Service Manual, I am willing to share with any soul like me who could use it. It is in PDF format and it looked like it came from the factory. This is the least I can do for all those who came to assist me. Thanks...

The manual covers, 51S700, 57S700, and 65S700. It has a July 2003 date...

Either PM me or e-mail me...

Mr. Bob,

If you are reading this, would you please review below???

Technician came today with a replacement board. The cost of the board was $465.00 and I was to pay $195+tax for labor. The board part # was JT24034. After the board was replaced the "5" gap banding" went away and stayed away. But I noticed that the scores that are displayed in the botom of the ESPN HD screen was only visible by top 1/4. What gives? Did the technician forget to reset or adjust something after the JT24034 board ws replaced???

Also, I tried to send you the Service Manual to your other address. Well, the manual was over 20 MB and it got kicked back. Let me know if you know other ways?

Thanks,
Keith

Mr. Bob,

If you are reading this, would you please review below???

Technician came today with a replacement board. The cost of the board was $465.00 and I was to pay $195+tax for labor. The board part # was JT24034. After the board was replaced the "5" gap banding" went away and stayed away. But I noticed that the scores that are displayed in the botom of the ESPN HD screen was only visible by top 1/4. What gives? Did the technician forget to reset or adjust something after the JT24034 board ws replaced???

Also, I tried to send you the Service Manual to your other address. Well, the manual was over 20 MB and it got kicked back. Let me know if you know other ways?

Thanks,
Keith


What was corrected was the missing info on the top 5" of your screen, right?

As such, if a board was replaced that had the vertical sweep section on it, the height would have to prolly be worked with. Your problem is prolly that the height is too high. Is the same thing happening at the top, with part of the top cut off also? If so, your tech has to come back and reduce the height a bit. Or if you want to, the height is a screwdriver pot facing front, along with the width pot, on the same board as your blue button for convergence is, all facing front.

This is an internal setting, requiring that you enter the electronics inside the set, where you could get killed by HV. Entering your set's insides is not something that should be taken lightly. Do so at your own risk.

If that control is changed to accurately reduce your overheight, mopup work will most likely be required on your convergence.



Thanks for the offer of the sm, but it looks like it's taking a lot more trouble than I should ask you for.

I am a tech and as such can get any Hit serv manual I need on the net from the Hitachi website, as I registered myself on their site recently to get one. So I am covered.

Thanks for trying, tho.

;)


Mr Bob

This is an internal setting, requiring that you enter the electronics inside the set, where you could get killed by HV.
Is it possible that even though the set's unplugged, there's residual current or power that could be dangerous?

In any event, my last foray on my own into my 57S500 was when I took off the glare screen. Several hundred dollars, even on a fixed income, to call in a pro beats funeral or medical expenses! :)

What was corrected was the missing info on the top 5" of your screen, right?

As such, if a board was replaced that had the vertical sweep section on it, the height would have to prolly be worked with. Your problem is prolly that the height is too high. Is the same thing happening at the top, with part of the top cut off also? If so, your tech has to come back and reduce the height a bit. Or if you want to, the height is a screwdriver pot facing front, along with the width pot, on the same board as your blue button for convergence is, all facing front.

This is an internal setting, requiring that you enter the electronics inside the set, where you could get killed by HV. Entering your set's insides is not something that should be taken lightly. Do so at your own risk.

If that control is changed to accurately reduce your overheight, mopup work will most likely be required on your convergence.



Thanks for the offer of the sm, but it looks like it's taking a lot more trouble than I should ask you for.

I am a tech and as such can get any Hit serv manual I need on the net from the Hitachi website, as I registered myself on their site recently to get one. So I am covered.

Thanks for trying, tho.

;)


Mr Bob

Thanks for the reply Mr. Bob. I have a call in to the tech for him to come back. But in the meantime, see the photo to see if this is a classical case of what you would call, "overscanning." See the Fox station logo cut off in the bottom of Hitach vs. Fox Station logo shown in my other Sharp LC3742U LCD screen. I put up two photos for this purpose. See how the logo on the Sharp LCD clearly shows the entire logo.

Thanks again Mr. Bob for your help.

Thanks for the reply Mr. Bob. I have a call in to the tech for him to come back. But in the meantime, see the photo to see if this is a classical case of what you would call, "overscanning." See the Fox station logo cut off in the bottom of Hitach vs. Fox Station logo shown in my other Sharp LC3742U LCD screen. I put up two photos for this purpose. See how the logo on the Sharp LCD clearly shows the entire logo.

Thanks again Mr. Bob for your help.

Try this picture instead. Other one was too small.

Is it possible that even though the set's unplugged, there's residual current or power that could be dangerous?

In any event, my last foray on my own into my 57S500 was when I took off the glare screen. Several hundred dollars, even on a fixed income, to call in a pro beats funeral or medical expenses! :)


30KV is nothing to sneeze at. CRT DV tubes left unattended and completely disconnected from anything at a dump site will retain their charge for weeks. We repair servicers are taught special procedures for disabling this high voltage when a set has been totalled and the CRT never to be used again.

In a set, this voltage is usually drained off by the connected circuitry after a few minutes. But who knows? And some adjustments need to be made with the set ON and RUNNING.

THAT'S where you have to be the most careful. When you are sticking your hands in there while the set is on and running.


Mr Bob

Thanks for the reply Mr. Bob. I have a call in to the tech for him to come back. But in the meantime, see the photo to see if this is a classical case of what you would call, "overscanning." See the Fox station logo cut off in the bottom of Hitach vs. Fox Station logo shown in my other Sharp LC3742U LCD screen. I put up two photos for this purpose. See how the logo on the Sharp LCD clearly shows the entire logo.

Thanks again Mr. Bob for your help.

Yes, that's overscanning. In your case it MIGHT be limited to just the vertical.
Classically, CRT RTPVs are sent out overscanned on both the horizontal AND the vertical. The whole picture is zoomed up enough to cut off lots of image real estate.

Which is one of the reasons we take it in.


Mr Bob

Is there a site for instructions on how to remove the front screen? I have some lint or something between the screens. I have the 57T500

Is there a site for instructions on how to remove the front screen? I have some lint or something between the screens. I have the 57T500
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8829101&&#post8829101

hey all.

I am in a sad position of having to sell my 57s715. My new living room has to many windows and no real good wall to put it on. Plus my son is becoming aware of the tv!

I bought it new in oct 04 and have never moved it. I am wondering what price range i should list it for. Thanks for any input

I would say 50-70% of the current price for a new 57".

Unfortunately Hitachi has really been cutting prices on their newer sets...I think people are getting the 57F59s for about $1200-1300. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=687477

Matt

I would say 50-70% of the current price for a new 57".

Unfortunately Hitachi has really been cutting prices on their newer sets...I think people are getting the 57F59s for about $1200-1300. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=687477

Matt

Hmm, i was thinking of $800-1000. Are the feature specs for the f59's similar?

Glad you got the clue as to not using a flash for this type of shot.

The lines are in response to the brightness of the material they surround. What's going on is not just lines - it is streaking. It is similar to how my Panny came OOB, except that mine only happened when the scene was dark, with bright spots in it. Which was remedied under warranty by replacing one cap per CRT socket board with one with 100 times its capacitance value. But that was when OOB. Yours was fine OOB, and has turned bad in the ensuing years.

Chances are, IMHO, that one of your coupling caps in the signal chain has gone bad. Sometimes you get lucky and it has leaked and left a black residue under the cap, sometimes it even smells like fish, esp. when a soldering iron is applied to its legs.

If not, you'll need a scope to find it. And a schematic, to know where the signal chain is.


Mr Bob

Bob,
This thread

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357578

sounds exactly like my first problem. One of the posters states that the tech said:

Ok, so the Hitachi referred fixer-upper guy showed up and here's what he found out:

Opened up the front to expose the three tubes. He somehow tested the blue tube. No lines. Red tube. No lines. Green tube. Lines.

He pushed on the high voltage lead of the green tube with a plastic thing so he doesn't get jolted and he was able to faithfully reproduce the horizontal lines that I've been noticing.

He thinks the high voltage lead isn't contacting right, there's too much insulation, etc.

He's going to come back and replace the high voltage lead for the green tube and see if that checks out OK.

Hope this helps!"

Does that prognosis sound feasible?

Secondly, I seem to have a new or similar problem. Now, when a program changes from screen to screen, I sometimes see horizontal lines just for a split second then nothing. Is this all possibly the same thing?

Bob,
This thread

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=357578

sounds exactly like my first problem. One of the posters states that the tech said:

Ok, so the Hitachi referred fixer-upper guy showed up and here's what he found out:

Opened up the front to expose the three tubes. He somehow tested the blue tube. No lines. Red tube. No lines. Green tube. Lines.

He pushed on the high voltage lead of the green tube with a plastic thing so he doesn't get jolted and he was able to faithfully reproduce the horizontal lines that I've been noticing.

He thinks the high voltage lead isn't contacting right, there's too much insulation, etc.

He's going to come back and replace the high voltage lead for the green tube and see if that checks out OK.

Hope this helps!"

Does that prognosis sound feasible?

Secondly, I seem to have a new or similar problem. Now, when a program changes from screen to screen, I sometimes see horizontal lines just for a split second then nothing. Is this all possibly the same thing?


Have him check that the thick HV wire is making contact appropriately inside its plug-in socket, usually either at the FBT or at whatever distribution splitter they are using to get the 30KV to the 3 CRT anode caps.

I found one where the prong was bent up inside, and since it was not making much direct contact, the sizing of the picture was dependent on the screen light level on that color. This may be the same thing, same source of problem with slightly different manifestation.

Up to the point at which I found this thing, I was ready to replace the CRT! But no, just bending the prong to its correct positioning and carefully reinserting, was all it took. Had to burnish it a little, it had arc'd quite a bit...


Mr Bob

Have him check that the thick HV wire is making contact appropriately inside its plug-in socket, usually either at the FBT or at whatever distribution splitter they are using to get the 30KV to the 3 CRT anode caps.

I found one where the prong was bent up inside, and since it was not making much direct contact, the sizing of the picture was dependent on the screen light level on that color. This may be the same thing, same source of problem with slightly different manifestation.

Up to the point at which I found this thing, I was ready to replace the CRT! But no, just bending the prong to its correct positioning and carefully reinserting, was all it took. Had to burnish it a little, it had arc'd quite a bit...


Mr Bob

Thanks for the reply. You did understand that that was not me but a quote from another thread, right? I believe it solves my startup video static problem. Also, did you see my second problem?

Thanks for the help!

Thanks for the reply. You did understand that that was not me but a quote from another thread, right? I believe it solves my startup video static problem. Also, did you see my second problem?

Thanks for the help!


Sorry, missed that.

DK on your second prob - sorry!


Mr Bob

Sorry, missed that.

DK on your second prob - sorry!


Mr Bob

Thanks Mr. Bob. I will try CC.

I have a 4 year old Hitachi 51s500 that I'm planning on selling to a friend. Just wondering what the value of this RPTV would be? It works perfectly and looks brand new.

Thanks!

Does color decoder interact with grayscale adjustment? Should I adjust the color decoder first before touching the grayscale?

My RPTV CRT has saturation and hue adjustment for each color (RGB). I don’t understand how it works by adjusting each primary color hue.

plm.

Does color decoder interact with grayscale adjustment? Should I adjust the color decoder first before touching the grayscale?

Grayscale does not interact with color decoder adjustments. To do grayscale one can feed a black and white signal to the set and then adjust, so no color decoding is occuring. Then feed a color signal and adjust the decoder.

Wayne

Grayscale does not interact with color decoder adjustments. To do grayscale one can feed a black and white signal to the set and then adjust, so no color decoding is occuring. Then feed a color signal and adjust the decoder.

Wayne


This is true, but should be tempered with checking that having the user color and tint WAY off doesn't affect the grayscale. Can't say, haven't done it. But on a Tosh, you get bright Kryptonite green in your b/w when you turn your color intensity all the way down in order to obtain pure b/w, in user or in sm.

Grayscale should always be set with color and tint settings at least close to their final optimum settings.

Always double check whatever you can when you're done with what looks like a great color decoding job. Always proofread your copy, my momma used to say...


Mr Bob

Evening everyone,

I read and searched through many of the responses on this thread and didn't find anything that seemed to directly help my problem. I apologize in advance if this question has already been answered.

I've recently been having issues with my Hitachi. Purchased from CC about 4 years ago. It's a 51" s500 model.

Over the last few months, the Magic Focus has been unreliable when it comes to aligning my colors. Instead I've been using the manual mode. It seems like over the last 2 weeks, my picture has gotten progressively worse. Specifically the blue tube. Now, when I try to manually adjust, the blue lines go nuts. I've attached two images. TV_Before shows the alignment immediately after running Magic Focus. TV_After shows the result upon making my first adjustment of the blue tube in manual mode. Literally one movement = that disaster. Also note that I can't figure out how to correct those major issues.

Is this a common problem? Solvable myself or requiring professional support? Dead TV?

Thanks in advance all and have a nice evening.

Phil

Evening everyone,

I read and searched through many of the responses on this thread and didn't find anything that seemed to directly help my problem. I apologize in advance if this question has already been answered.

I've recently been having issues with my Hitachi. Purchased from CC about 4 years ago. It's a 51" s500 model.

Over the last few months, the Magic Focus has been unreliable when it comes to aligning my colors. Instead I've been using the manual mode. It seems like over the last 2 weeks, my picture has gotten progressively worse. Specifically the blue tube. Now, when I try to manually adjust, the blue lines go nuts. I've attached two images. TV_Before shows the alignment immediately after running Magic Focus. TV_After shows the result upon making my first adjustment of the blue tube in manual mode. Literally one movement = that disaster. Also note that I can't figure out how to correct those major issues.

Is this a common problem? Solvable myself or requiring professional support? Dead TV?

Thanks in advance all and have a nice evening.

Phil

If just one click causes that second pic to occur, perhaps you need to do a complete reset on your DCAM. Or one of your conv ICs has bit the dust.

Hits are famous for running out of room at point values, causing havoc when you hit an edge/top a limit/overrun your capacity per point.


Mr Bob

Is it normal for the "Before" picture to be drooping that much? I don't think mine gets that out of whack.

Edit - Yeah, I'd try to do the DCAM procedure, as described in this post -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=2368657&#post2368657

And the actual Service Manual procedure 2.12.5 -
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=4934284&&#post4934284

Try the 7x5 mode to get rid of the S-curve.

Matt

First a big thanks to Matt and Mr. Bob for the response. While I feel like your suggestions are a tad over my head, it's probably enough for me to do some additional homework.

Is it normal for "Before"...?
- No. Up until 2 nights ago, I could reliably get all of the lines to sync up using manual adjustments. The one exception was the extreme top left. There the blue would always curve up at a sharp angle. Something I grew to live with. What you see in the "Before" picture is the best I can get it now.

Did the "After" pick happen after one click?
-Yes. Selecting any grid location and clicking any direction causes the after pick.

Follow-up questions...

1. Is this something a home theatre guy that's ISF certified can handle? Basically, if you were local Mr. Bob, would this be something you could be hired to fix? I have a good lead on an ISF certified guy in my area.
2. On a scale of 1 to 10, how difficult is the DCAM procedure? I ask because I'm not looking to damage my TV by forcing this myself. If I could pay 200 to 300 to get a pro, I'm all for it.

Thanks guys. It's great having folks that are willing to donate a few minutes of their time to help a fellow HD lover.

Phil

I got a chance to adjust the grayscale of my 57S500 using two different non-professional grade colorimeter. I could hardly make the grayscale straight linear, the BLUE always dip at around 40 IRE. RED and GREEN are quite flat. Is it normal for CRT TV? Should I compromise with blue black or below D65 mid IRE?

Finally, I am enjoying what my 57S500 can do with my limited skill and basic equipment after three years of learning and trails. I start to realize why some of senior members still prefer CRT over plasma and LCD TV, since I have owned three of them at different sizes.

plm.

2. On a scale of 1 to 10, how difficult is the DCAM procedure? I ask because I'm not looking to damage my TV by forcing this myself. If I could pay 200 to 300 to get a pro, I'm all for it.
Two! or 3. Basically the same as the manual magic focus, with just a few more options. :)

First a big thanks to Matt and Mr. Bob for the response. While I feel like your suggestions are a tad over my head, it's probably enough for me to do some additional homework.

Is it normal for "Before"...?
- No. Up until 2 nights ago, I could reliably get all of the lines to sync up using manual adjustments. The one exception was the extreme top left. There the blue would always curve up at a sharp angle. Something I grew to live with. What you see in the "Before" picture is the best I can get it now.

Did the "After" pick happen after one click?
-Yes. Selecting any grid location and clicking any direction causes the after pick.

Follow-up questions...

1. Is this something a home theatre guy that's ISF certified can handle? Basically, if you were local Mr. Bob, would this be something you could be hired to fix? I have a good lead on an ISF certified guy in my area.
2. On a scale of 1 to 10, how difficult is the DCAM procedure? I ask because I'm not looking to damage my TV by forcing this myself. If I could pay 200 to 300 to get a pro, I'm all for it.

Thanks guys. It's great having folks that are willing to donate a few minutes of their time to help a fellow HD lover.

Phil

That's prolly a bit of a loaded question, because if I found that your IC's had gone bad or even your conv generator - I'd take that on as a repair and fix the unit, then do the necessary mopup via DCAM. I think that since this thing happened suddenly, you'd better consider it needing a repair and not just a DCAM redo.

If it were only DCAM, of course I could handle that, whatever it took.

And no, you won't find many ISF graduates capable of that, because they don't teach the image structure in the ISF classes.

Image STRUCTURE is all important in CRT tech.


Mr Bob

An update on my issue. I completed the DCAM work last night. I couldn't reliably get into 3x3 mode but I was able to adjust 7x5 and 13x9. Here's what happened...

Did the procedure the first time, got the picture *almost* perfect. Made a mistake and hit the wrong button on my remote. Instead of writing to ROM it completed the magic focus init ending with a screen showing lots of values. Looked like memory locations or something. Had to power the TV off to clear it.

Powered the TV back on and the picture was still bad. Clearly skipping the ROM step wasn't a good idea. With the wife pressuring me to go to bed, I started the process again. This time I wasn't fumbling around trying to figure things out. Went much faster although I couldn't get into 3x3 mode. Made some half-assed adjustments just to prove I could complete the process and I was successful. I still have a little trouble with the lines in the upper right (pressing down moves the blue line up, and vice versa) but I can get the picture looking acceptable again. New problem though...

My entire grid is now slightly rotated clockwise to the right. This seemed to happen as a result of the inadvertent magic focus init I did my first time. What's the process for straightening this out? Same thing? If I had to guess, I need to buy some sort of template or something to lay over the TV.

Phil

Yeah, the manual says 3x3 mode "only works when DCU is in uncorrected state".

I think this means if it was replaced by repair or totally wiped somehow...not something you want to mess with.

That pdf I posted has the geometry grids - some people attach string over the front of the screen to align with. I wouldn't mess with that yet, just try to get your convergence as good as possible and verify if your TV is able to hold it.

Matt

An update on my issue. I completed the DCAM work last night. I couldn't reliably get into 3x3 mode but I was able to adjust 7x5 and 13x9. Here's what happened...

Did the procedure the first time, got the picture *almost* perfect. Made a mistake and hit the wrong button on my remote. Instead of writing to ROM it completed the magic focus init ending with a screen showing lots of values. Looked like memory locations or something. Had to power the TV off to clear it.

Powered the TV back on and the picture was still bad. Clearly skipping the ROM step wasn't a good idea. With the wife pressuring me to go to bed, I started the process again. This time I wasn't fumbling around trying to figure things out. Went much faster although I couldn't get into 3x3 mode. Made some half-assed adjustments just to prove I could complete the process and I was successful. I still have a little trouble with the lines in the upper right (pressing down moves the blue line up, and vice versa) but I can get the picture looking acceptable again. New problem though...

My entire grid is now slightly rotated clockwise to the right. This seemed to happen as a result of the inadvertent magic focus init I did my first time. What's the process for straightening this out? Same thing? If I had to guess, I need to buy some sort of template or something to lay over the TV.

Phil


It is really easy to hit a wrong key on a Hit when they change the keys every year or 2, and what key worked then doesn't now, needs a different one for the same thing. It's one thing to continually change the ENTRY codes, like Mit did for years, and finally stopped doing - has stayed the same for a couple of years now and they will stay that way - but to keep changing the keys as to what does what - that's just mean of them, IMHO, and that applies even to their own field techs.

I have not seen this clockwise thing you're speaking of. We correct c/ccl rotations by actually rotating the yokes while in uncorrected state, but this seems a little intense of a remedy for what little you did, when you hit your wrong key.

Mit's and Pioneers have Skew and Tilt registers that would get you back where you were before, in seconds. Hit's, don't, that I know of. Maybe it cleared corrections in there that the factory put in, that shoulda been done by rotating the yokes in the first place.

Keep in mind that rotating the yokes will rotate tilt both the hor and the vert. If only one needs rotation for correction, rotating the yokes will only be a partial corrective measure, and as such is usually not what is needed. If hor and vert are both rotated in the same direction, c or ccl, then rotating the yoke for that color the other way would be the simplest, easiest way out of this jam.

You do that by loosening the yoke strap with usually a Philips #2 screwdriver, then very softly tightening it up.

I prolly don't need to tell you what would happen if you got zapped in there or overtightened your yoke again, so BE CAREFUL IN THERE. I can take no liability on for this advice, and will not be held accountable for any damage to the set or to yourself. I professionally advise you NOT to do it, to allow a professional service tech in there to do it for you.

In the immortal words of the preacher to black sherriff Cleavon Little about to be strung up by the townspeople in the classic Blazing Saddles, "Yer on yer own..."


Mr Bob

Hey guys, this may be a silly q, but with all the talk these days about LCD and plasma contrast ratios, I got to wondering what the specs on my Hit were regarding this, but, I cannot find this anywhere. Does anybody know? I have it set at 50% contrats?

Hey guys, this may be a silly q, but with all the talk these days about LCD and plasma contrast ratios, I got to wondering what the specs on my Hit were regarding this, but, I cannot find this anywhere. Does anybody know? I have it set at 50% contrats?


DK, but the expensive ceiling pjs quote 150,000:1.

I would expect a typical CRT RPTV to have no less than 20,000:1, quite possible a lot more than that, maybe even 50,000:1, judging by how good CRT RPTVs are on that issue compared to expensive ceiling pjs. I haven't seen specs on that in any of the owner's lit of any brand, would love to know more for sure about it.

One thing's for sure - they never needed to quote contrast ratios before bulb-driven fixed pixel.

It wasn't necessary, because with CRT tech it was never in question.


Mr Bob

Have had set for 3 years - of course just stopped the warranty - now all of a sudden when watching TV the screen shows fades to a green tint to it and then after a second goes back to normal color. Using component cables for HDTV via HD-Tivo but it also does it through the QAM tuner - any ideas?

Have had set for 3 years - of course just stopped the warranty - now all of a sudden when watching TV the screen shows fades to a green tint to it and then after a second goes back to normal color. Using component cables for HDTV via HD-Tivo but it also does it through the QAM tuner - any ideas?


If it's actually a blue-green tint, then the red color sounds like it's intermittently going out and coming back.

This can be caused anywhere in the signal chain, and is not usually the fault of the red CRT, or picture tube, itself. There are literally dozens of things that could be causing this.

It could be the red filament inside the red CRT, if it is fading in and out. Or circuitry leading to the red filament. Fading in and out signals a completely different set of possibilities from having the in and out being immediate and instantaneous.


If it's really fading to green, then the focus block could be leaking too much bias energy in, at the green screen trimpot.


Prolly time to call a tech in.


Mr Bob

I have a friend that has a LCD HDTV that he says has a bad picture, His family came to my house over the weekend and couldn't believe the picture on my 57T500 and he wants one, I found a site that has the 57X500 with the new 1080P video processor. Is this a good deal? or is this a scam? I didn't know they could add the 1080P processor.
http://www.parkaveelectronics.com/product.asp?itemid=HIT57X500&l=more

I have a friend that has a LCD HDTV that he says has a bad picture, His family came to my house over the weekend and couldn't believe the picture on my 57T500 and he wants one, I found a site that has the 57X500 with the new 1080P video processor. Is this a good deal? or is this a scam? I didn't know they could add the 1080P processor.
http://www.parkaveelectronics.com/product.asp?itemid=HIT57X500&l=more


"New Virtual HD 1080p Video Processor:
Upgrades conventional signals to near HD quality for a sharp, well-defined picture, regardless of source."


I believe this is the processor that does processing of everything not HD, but then downconverts back to 1080i when the processing is done and ready to be sent to the screen. The processing is probably not done on everything that hits the set - it probably leaves 1080i alone, performing pass-thru instead. We have heard of this "1080p processing" before. The set does NOT display in 1080p.

It stays in 1080i for the actual displaying, but bumping it up to 1080p for the actual processing of anything NOT 1080i, is definitely a good thing.


The 1080i it DOES display, tho, is mesmerizing, when fully calibrated and color corrected. VERY filmlike, totally topnotch as CRT RPTV displays go. The last Hit I calibrated, in Orlando, left its owner sitting there with his family, completely mesmerized by the Planet Earth series, on Discovery HD. I can still see them all gathered around it, kids with eyes wide...


It does say it has HDTV tuner, NOT "Digital" tuner. Sounds like it has the official ATSC HD tuner, rather than the very nice-looking knockoff they sold on less expensive Hit units, that didn't give you true HD on the channels. Looked nice, they have a very good processor for that, but NOT true HD.

This looks like the king of the Hitachis. I'd scarf one up before they disappear.


Mr Bob

If I remember right this series was the best of the Hitachis, then came the 710's then the F59 series.

Says the set is brand new. If it has no issues and you have the cash it's a good buy. Just remember it has a DVI not HDMI (which I hate). However you can get cheaper just dont know if you can get better in the Hitachi series. These where gone when I purchased mine (710) in early 06.

PS it was the 715 series I was thinging about being the best. HDMI and had the VirtualHD™ 1080p video processor

Says the set is brand new. If it has no issues and you have the cash it's a good buy. Just remember it has a DVI not HDMI (which I hate).


Could it be that DVI does not have the infuriating issues that HDMI has, on the Hits?

If so, then having DVI rather than HDMI could be a boon. I am sure that any HDCP issues will apply to both.


Mr Bob

Its the whole we release DVI because component will let you copy movies. Now lets go from DVI to HDMI because now we really mean to stop you. I was worried I HAD to have HDMI for HD player content but then they now allow 1080I via component.
It's a personal issue for me :P

But since I use component vs HDMI I have yet to run into the Hits HDMI issues, but I know its lurking.

Proud owner of 57S500 here....3 years and no service calls and no mishaps either.

Anyway, the reflections have always been my major peeve and apparently, u can take out the glare screen.

Anyone has done it yet? Does it actually affect the picture quality in any way? Also, how complicated is it?

Appreciated
Frag

Proud owner of 57S500 here....3 years and no service calls and no mishaps either.

Anyway, the reflections have always been my major peeve and apparently, u can take out the glare screen.

Anyone has done it yet? Does it actually affect the picture quality in any way? Also, how complicated is it?

Appreciated
Frag


In the daytime or with lights on it makes a world of difference. Once you get it off, you'll see how much of your pic it's been hiding from you.

Be sure to be careful of the MF sensors when you remove it. It removes with a bunch of screws. Don't let fingers or hands touch ANY of the plastic screens in the 3 layer sandwich.


Mr Bob

What does the "factory reset" setting do in the service menu. Does it reset settings in the service menu or user settings in the TV settings Menu???
did u ever get an answer to this?

Wow, where have I been. I hope all have been enjoying their hitachi sets like I have. So much I have not visited the site in quite some time.

did u ever get an answer to this?

Factory reset in user mode will simply reset user settings, most to midpoint, contrast possibly to full - which is Torch Mode, don't do it!

In sm, if you hit any type of Factory Reset - called Default in the Philips line, QA02 Reset in the older Tosh line, E2 Reset in the older Mits's - it will cause immeasurable damage to your picture, as it erases hours of work done while still at the factory, which you DON'T want to lose!


Mr Bob

A 51F500 owner just contacted me for conv repair on his unit, and we have an appointment set up for tomorrow.

My problem is I ran out of my STK 392-110 supply - and the 180's I had on hand that are the upgrade - and my new shipment has not arrived yet.

Does this unit use the 110's? Or the 570's? Don't know, don't want to cost him a travel charge just finding out.

Someone out there know?


Mr Bob

What setting most effects an image that is completely flat with no depth? I thought my settings on my 46F500 were spot on, but I did a comparison with my LCD in another room and it showed otherwise. I was watching Harry Potter & OOTP on HD DVD (that you amazon uk!). The picture seemed so one dimesional, I knew something wasn't right.

Settings were done using DVE-HD DVD and changes were made in the service menu. Brightness is right, contrast I'm never sure about, and color & tint was done turning on one gun at a time. I'm not sure what I'm overlooking. I haven't checked my grayscale in a while. Last time I couldn't get blue to fall in line no matter what I did, so I gave up on it. Ideas?

What setting most effects an image that is completely flat with no depth? I thought my settings on my 46F500 were spot on, but I did a comparison with my LCD in another room and it showed otherwise. I was watching Harry Potter & OOTP on HD DVD (that you amazon uk!). The picture seemed so one dimesional, I knew something wasn't right.

Settings were done using DVE-HD DVD and changes were made in the service menu. Brightness is right, contrast I'm never sure about, and color & tint was done turning on one gun at a time. I'm not sure what I'm overlooking. I haven't checked my grayscale in a while. Last time I couldn't get blue to fall in line no matter what I did, so I gave up on it. Ideas?

If flat with no depth translates to bleary, your optics prolly need professional grade cleaning.


Mr Bob

Trying to get the Toshiba HD-A2 configured for my S700.

Component works at 1080i. :)

Tried HDMI to DVI, but it doesn't seem to sync up, lots of scrolling static and garbage. :mad:

Now I'm loading the Toshiba 2.7 firmware upgrade to see if that fixes the hdmi-dvi problem.

stay tuned....


oh yeah, I should mention that this TV still looks fantastic! Good to still see the usual suspects haunting this thread.

grr....

Looks like the spliter (DVI male to DVI female and HDMI female) I bought is bad. My STB going through the splitter had the same problem. Splitter removed and problem gone.

Running the HD-DVD player via component for now.

grr....
Running the HD-DVD player via component for now.

Was just going to suggest this. You should still be getting a fantasic pic from component.

I don't believe you will improve your picture using HDMI, and that component will do just fine on HD DVD for any analog CRT RPTV.

The only reason for HDMI on CRT tech is for upconverting 480i SD DVDs to 1080i.

Otherwise you're just stomping on the integrity of your otherwise absolutely excellent HD signal with needlesss up/down digital conversions.


Mr Bob

Batman Begins, HD DVD


http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4958/111707samples8afrommit7tn4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/7463/111707samples8afrommit7uv3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2209/111707samples8frommit73zv1.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Morgan Fairchild's lips, Dexter's mom's killer, taped down


http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4131/111707samples7frommit73rq2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2278/111707samples7frommit73ik8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I don't believe you will improve your picture using HDMI, and that component will do just fine on HD DVD for any analog CRT RPTV.


Mr Bob

Sorry to troll around on a non-F59 thread :p, but I always check where you post, Bob!

In reference to BATMAN HD DVD, I went ahead and picked a copy up on Sunday while XMAS shopping. Excellent disc! Totally worth a re-dip (already owned the 2 disc DVD--HD DVD has all that set's bonus stuff on a single disc, plus the rather cool "In Movie Experience" function...and, oh yeah...a KILLER HD transfer to boot!)

Yes, component is obviosuly just fine for HD DVD. Your shots prove that. Will say, though, that the HDMI upconversion from an A2 (and guessing the A3 as well) is excellent. Better than both the Sony NS75H upscaling player my A2 replaced, as well as the Hit F59 "Virtual HD".

When even the wife notices, you know it must be good.;)

Been feeding my F59 the A2 via HDMI, with no problems. SD DVD upconversion is stellar--actually makes rewatchng old DVDs fun. Watched a couple of my Star Wars & Indy Jones DVDs on the A2 recently----WOW!!!

Compared my SD BATMAN to the HD version. Definite difference/improvement, but even BATMAN SD A2-upcoverted looks good.

But if "real" HD is all you are after, the lack of HDMI isn't a big deal.

Trying to skim this thread I don't see how to access the service menu on a Hitachi 57S500??? I am not going to make any changes. I wondered if there was somewhere you could read total hrs in operation. Mine is a little over 4 yrs old and I think the image in HD looks good but I believe it could be better and I am trying to get a gauge on how bad it is and then get an ISF to come in. I do think it is getting darker and I have bumped the brightness up a notch (As soon as I got it I did turn the brightness and contrast down so it wouldn't torch).

Thanks

Trying to skim this thread I don't see how to access the service menu on a Hitachi 57S500??? I am not going to make any changes. I wondered if there was somewhere you could read total hrs in operation. Mine is a little over 4 yrs old and I think the image in HD looks good but I believe it could be better and I am trying to get a gauge on how bad it is and then get an ISF to come in. I do think it is getting darker and I have bumped the brightness up a notch (As soon as I got it I did turn the brightness and contrast down so it wouldn't torch).

Thanks

You didn't mention optics cleaning. At 4 years old, that's the VERY first thing that needs to be done. Without crystal clear optics, none of the rest of the improvements will REALLY show thru like they should, including but not limited to the duvetyne op. All will contribute a little bit, but with dirty optics, none will be a massive improvement, as the dirty optics will continue to confine and compromise the quality of your display.

With your entire optical path clean and crystal clear your set will look like new again. And there are prolly 4 lenses per lens pack, there's the CRT coolant cover, and there's the mirror. That's 28 surfaces in there that have to be crystal clear.

Luckily enough we don't need to worry about the surfaces of the internal lenses in each lens stack, but the ones exposed to the air are DEFINITELY in question, and that means the lens tops and bottoms, CRT coolant covers and mirror.

That's 10 surfaces that are exposed to the air in there, and that can thus be compromised in there, by the HV turning them into giant dust magnets. And imbedding more and more crud on them with every hour the unit is on and producing 30KV for the operation of the CRTs, literally sucking the dust out of the air onto those surfaces at all times the unit is on.


I know of no hours clock in there, but then I am not an owner, owners please chip in here.


Mr Bob

The only hours clocks I'm aware of are on projectors. To access the service menu, with the TV off, on the front of the TV, press Input + Power. Bob is right. The picture is getting darker because the optics need professional cleaning about every 3-4 years.

I recently bought a plasma for my living room, planning on moving my 57S500 in the finished basement.
Since it is so heavy I'm going to take it in 2 pieces, now since I have this opportunity I would like to clean the guts.
Vacuuming is ok I suppose, how about cleaning the lenses? what should I use without damaging them?
I would appreciate any input.

Peter

I have a question that i hope someone can answer for me... I have a hitachi 57T500, which has a dvi input. Can i connect a blu-ray player to this tv and get the full benefits of of a blu-ray player has to offer? thanks

I have a question that i hope someone can answer for me... I have a hitachi 57T500, which has a dvi input. Can i connect a blu-ray player to this tv and get the full benefits of of a blu-ray player has to offer? thanks

Oh yes! Just set it to put out the highest scanrate possible for your set - which in this case is 1080i - and you're in, just HU with either component or HDMI/DVI. Get a HDMI->DVI crossover cable if necessary, it's very straightforward.

Not familiar with the T designation. Does that make it something other than a CRT type? If so, set it to 1080p. For CRT, 1080i is the max res for RPTV type CRT.

The HD discs - both formats - also do a mean 480i->1080i/p upconversion out of HDMI, so all your SD collection will be treated superbly.

Then sit back and prepare to be impressed.


Mr Bob

Knight Rider


http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/9717/21808knightriderontosh0fc4.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/6820/21808knightriderontosh0vk5.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/8831/21808knightriderontosh0ho9.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/896/21808knightriderontosh0bi4.jpg[/URL]

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/5149/21808knightriderontosh0zx3.jpg[/URL]

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/2344/21808knightriderontosh0rx9.jpg[/URL]



Lena Headley, from 300 (queen of Sparta) - Sarah Conner Chronicles

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/2540/21808knightriderontosh0es0.jpg[/URL]

Night sky - try THAT with bulb driven fixed pixel! Or dirty optics...

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/7627/21808knightriderontosh0vg1.jpg

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/1073/21808knightriderontosh0fh4.jpg

Scooby Doo commercial - notice the head's moving on farthest right side guy, 2 images of his left hand, from 2 different frames -

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/6059/21808knightriderontosh0dm5.jpg

Corrupt sheriff - blurry from slo-mo, to keep the pause bar outa there -

http://img147.imageshack.us/img147/9561/21808knightriderontosh0op2.jpg

These pix are from satellite reception in 1080i. HD discs look even better on CRT technology, which you guys all have.

KEEP YOUR SETS!


Mr Bob




Doesn't LOOK like a db, does it?

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/2265/22308csiontosh003vm7.jpg[/URL]

Dean Cain, guest appearance

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/6123/22308csiontosh009ep3.jpg[/URL]

I don't usually post on this site, I visit more to research and read reviews. But I'd just like to pass along my opinion and first impressions after having my 4 year old 57S700 professionally cleaned and calibrated by one of the LionAV guys whose local to my area.

First a little background on what prompted my to have this done. I bought a entry level Samsung 32" LCD for the basement, primarily for the kids to use for XBox 360 and non HD cable viewing and DVD. I connected it to my cable HD STB, curious how the PQ would look. First thing I noticed was that the channel menu had totally different colors on the Samsung. For example, the station ID and channel number are in a light blue background, movies have a purple background, sports green, etc. On my 57S700 the station ID and movie background were both dark blue. Hmmm. Another thing I had noticed before(and read about here) was the bars on HD ESPN during a non HD feed were bluish instead of black/dark grey on the S700. Also the colors just weren't vibrant any more. Being 4+ years old it probably needed cleaning to boot. My wife thought the PQ was just fine on the S700 and thought the idea of paying somebody to come out and clean and calibrate the set(especially when told of the price) was a waste of money. I decided to have it done anyway, without discussing it further with her..... yikes!

All I can say is what a difference. I took the tech 6+ hours to complete and was quite an education. Black level looks perfect now, the HD ESPN bars are the correct color, as is the channel menu. The overall clarity, vividness and accuracy of the colors is just unbelievable. My wife was mad initially but once she viewed the TV all was good. Whew! My only regret is not having this done sooner. Very pleased with the results.

I don't usually post on this site, I visit more to research and read reviews. But I'd just like to pass along my opinion and first impressions after having my 4 year old 57S700 professionally cleaned and calibrated by one of the LionAV guys whose local to my area.

First a little background on what prompted my to have this done. I bought a entry level Samsung 32" LCD for the basement, primarily for the kids to use for XBox 360 and non HD cable viewing and DVD. I connected it to my cable HD STB, curious how the PQ would look. First thing I noticed was that the channel menu had totally different colors on the Samsung. For example, the station ID and channel number are in a light blue background, movies have a purple background, sports green, etc. On my 57S700 the station ID and movie background were both dark blue. Hmmm. Another thing I had noticed before(and read about here) was the bars on HD ESPN during a non HD feed were bluish instead of black/dark grey on the S700. Also the colors just weren't vibrant any more. Being 4+ years old it probably needed cleaning to boot. My wife thought the PQ was just fine on the S700 and thought the idea of paying somebody to come out and clean and calibrate the set(especially when told of the price) was a waste of money. I decided to have it done anyway, without discussing it further with her..... yikes!

All I can say is what a difference. I took the tech 6+ hours to complete and was quite an education. Black level looks perfect now, the HD ESPN bars are the correct color, as is the channel menu. The overall clarity, vividness and accuracy of the colors is just unbelievable. My wife was mad initially but once she viewed the TV all was good. Whew! My only regret is not having this done sooner. Very pleased with the results.

Who was it? Gregg? Chuck? Steve? Dave?

Let's give them a shot in the spotlight -


Mr Bob

Sure, I'll provide a plug. I live in the St. Louis, MO area and Doug Weil calibrated and cleaned my set. I didn't realize how time consuming this process could be in order to do a proper job. Add to that the knowledge required to know what each service menu parameter does and how it interacts/effects other settings. I got quite an education. I don't think I can say this enough but the before and after difference is simply incredible.

Sure, I'll provide a plug. I live in the St. Louis, MO area and Doug Weil calibrated and cleaned my set. I didn't realize how time consuming this process could be in order to do a proper job. Add to that the knowledge required to know what each service menu parameter does and how it interacts/effects other settings. I got quite an education. I don't think I can say this enough but the before and after difference is simply incredible.

Doug is a great guy, got to know him when I calibrated his Panny 56", before he became a calibrator, way back when he lived in SF. He sold me my Panny STB/DVHS combo, the only way of recording HD at the time. He now heads up an ISF forum.

He has done well! Say hi for me -


Mr Bob

Thanks Mr.Bob, the T is an updated version of the S500 model. The 57T500 is only capable of 1080i. Just how much of a difference would a person notice viewing the blu-ray in 1080i as opposed to 1080p? (-:
cheers

Just how much of a difference would a person notice viewing the blu-ray in 1080i as opposed to 1080p? (-:
cheers

Not much.

Keep in mind that ALL broadcast 1080 HD is i, not p, and has to suffer upconversion to p, to be able to play on fixed pixel displays at all. You're at the mercy of how good the algorithms are, that each brand designs/develops/uses for this purpose. We know how schlocky some of the first built-in 480i->p upconversions looked on the first few years of HDready RPTV, the de-interlacers used in the displays themselves. My year 2000 Panny has the best HD pic in the RPTV biz, but its built-in 480p from i absolutely sucks.

It was so bad that DVD players with built-in upconversion to 480p were selling like hotcakes at $800 a pop among the true videophile early adopters. Now of course they are commonplace and super cheap, but it was not always that way.

I have not seen any differences in i vs. p in fixed pixel, nor in front pj, but have not been looking either. Certainly doesn't jump out at you if it exists at all.

Cliff says that i gives his double G90 stack the windowslat look of shadows between lines that p doesn't have, and showed me something similar, so I'd know what to look for. But he had his CRT double stack setup strictly 1080p and HDMI'd - until the pjs anyway, where it became RGB - so I have not seen this comparison in action.

I am COMPLETELY happy with my CRT sets, both maxing out at 1080i. I see no motion artifacts, and there is no blurring, like I see in so many of the current day 60 Hz refresh rate fixed pixel displays.

120 and 240 Hz refresh rates were all the rage at CES in January, where they neutralized that hideous blurring on motion, but I think it will take awhile before the trickle down on that happens for normal consumers out there.

With CRT we don't need to worry about that.


Mr Bob

Been a long time since I've been here. I'm impressed there is still talk here about these sets. I've got a few questions regarding service menu centering of the image. I just got a new 222 HD receiver from Dish Network and I notice the image isn't centered. I'm using component cables on Input 1 at 1080i. I haven't been in the SM in years. Is there a discrete setting for HD sources? Or will I just be moving everything else off center to correct it? Is it the receiver, maybe? Thanks for any and all help.

I'm pretty sure you end up moving the image for all inputs. Or at least that's how I remember it working the last time I was in the service menu a few years ago.
I'm still really happy with my 57T500 set. Only way I will replace it is if it brakes or I move to a house where I can build a theater big enough for an FP.
For any of you that want to hook a PC up to this TV, the newer ATI graphics cards do an awesome job of scaling the 1280x768 image to a very usable windows desktop with almost no interlaced flicker. I have an x1650 made by Asus. The 1700x1000 resolution is a great native 1080i overscan corrected resolution (no scaling) which is great for movies but will produce massive interlace flicker on the Windows desktop. I have my Vista PC set to run 1280x768 on the windows desktop, games, web, etc; and then Media Center is set up to switch to 1700x1000 for movies, recorded HDTV, etc.

Anyone available to clean and recalibrate a s500 in north central illinois along I-80? PM me please.

Anyone available to clean and recalibrate a s500 in north central illinois along I-80? PM me please.

A Chicago cal tour is being discussed, on the way to my upcoming Twin Cities tour. Or back from...

Are you anywhere close to the Windy City?


Mr Bob

Cameron

http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9/22508chroniclesontosh00ex8.jpg[/URL]

Mr. Bob - I am in the Chicagoland Area NW burbs. Let me know when you might have a tour put together out this way. ;-)




I am presently in Minneapolis doing a cal tour of half a dozen Pioneer owners, and a guy in Chicago wants me to make a side trip there, to repair and cal his Pioneer as well. He wants fellow compadres! Contact me immediately if you want to get in on this. NOT by pm, please! By regular email, below in my sig.

It's going to extend my tour by a few days, but hey, if I'm going to be in the area anyway...

:p

Contact me and I'll get you to him -

;)

Mr Bob

During our recent move, we found out (the hard way!) that the cabinet of the 51s500 is too tall to fit down the basement stairs. I've searched the posts and found how to split the cabinet on the 57s500, but did not see anyone attempt this on the 51.

Looking inside the cabinet (by removing the back panel), I see the cabinet is bolted together from the inside. I plan on removing the screen according to the service manual and then dismantling the cabinet for moving. Has anyone ever tried this on a 51s500?

btw, I've had the set since 2004 and the PQ is still excellent! If not for the sex appeal of a new plasma, I would gladly keep it upstairs.

I recently had an incident with my 57S500 screen which left the front layer of the screen cracked in one spot near the top and I can see a through crack of the darker looking layer underneath that. Have not taken the screen off to see if the damage might go further. If I am able to purchase a new screen sandwich is that likely the only thing I need to fix my screen. I am just wanting to make sure there is not a layer beyond the sandwich that could be cracked and cause me issues. The picture still looks great, just can see the crack with the inner surface showing up as a thin black line for about 6 inches especially with white or light colored images on screen. I guess the gist of my question is if the sandwich is the protective layer and just the lenticular or is there more. Thanks for any help.

I recently had an incident with my 57S500 screen which left the front layer of the screen cracked in one spot near the top and I can see a through crack of the darker looking layer underneath that. Have not taken the screen off to see if the damage might go further. If I am able to purchase a new screen sandwich is that likely the only thing I need to fix my screen. I am just wanting to make sure there is not a layer beyond the sandwich that could be cracked and cause me issues. The picture still looks great, just can see the crack with the inner surface showing up as a thin black line for about 6 inches especially with white or light colored images on screen. I guess the gist of my question is if the sandwich is the protective layer and just the lenticular or is there more. Thanks for any help.

The 2 active layers are the fresnel closest to the mirror, and the lenticular in front of that, closest to us. That's the total optical screen sandwich complement.

The clear plexiglas layer in front of the lent, if there, is not needed, not part of the optics.

Let me know if you want me to order you replacements.


Mr Bob

I appreciate the info. We are getting ready to move to Hawaii and I may take a look at it and see how much and if I can get Hitachi to send me the sandwich so I can replace the broken one. I would rather save the money from the installation and still get it fixed. Then work on getting a group together to convince you to take a "vacation" out to our new home and get the tv looking like never before. I didn't read your post properly before. How much would the replacements run and would it be possible to get them shipped to me direct here in Illinois. Thanks again for the info.

MIke

I appreciate the info. We are getting ready to move to Hawaii and I may take a look at it and see how much and if I can get Hitachi to send me the sandwich so I can replace the broken one. I would rather save the money from the installation and still get it fixed. Then work on getting a group together to convince you to take a "vacation" out to our new home and get the tv looking like never before. I didn't read your post properly before. How much would the replacements run and would it be possible to get them shipped to me direct here in Illinois. Thanks again for the info.

MIke


I would have to check with Hitachi about that, you could too. Contact me directly for parts costs, there will be minimums to come up with if you want me to do that research for you.

You could check with Hit directly. Would prolly be cheaper for you to do so, rather than going thru me -

If Hit does not have them available, we can always go with the next size up Mit screens, and cut them down to size -

I know I can have those delivered directly to your home -

LOVE Hawaii! Been WAY too long since I've been there -


Mr Bob

Greetings - I've been a 57S500 owner for just shy of 4 years. While I have enjoyed the television immensely, I don't see me moving to a place that can accomodate it very well anytime soon. So, I've decided to sell it and hold out for and LCD/Plasma/etc (undecided as of now).

I'm having a very hard time figuring out a used price for this television and I'm considering a price in the $500-$700 range. Sad, as I paid nearly 4 times that - such is life, however.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

The 2 active layers are the fresnel closest to the mirror, and the lenticular in front of that, closest to us. That's the total optical screen sandwich complement.

The clear plexiglas layer in front of the lent, if there, is not needed, not part of the optics.

Let me know if you want me to order you replacements.


Mr Bob

Hey my first post cool little forum here.

I have done the same thing on my Hitachi 65S500

When moving it a bungee cord holding a tarp down snapped and hit the screen it put a crack/rock chip in the front screen.

I have had the complete screen Assembly off a few times but was looking to replace the cracked "sandwich" section.

Mr Bob can I order these parts from you? I just found this forum from doing some google searches..

I am looking to sell this TV but wanted to get the screen fixed before I do. It has become our secondary TV and is to big for the room it is in.

( the theater room got upgraded to a HD projector :D )


Oh and my crack is just in the Plexiglas layer.. can you just get that part separately? I have had a hard time trying to find any parts on line. Have called any TV repair places yet.

Hey my first post cool little forum here.

I have done the same thing on my Hitachi 65S500

When moving it a bungee cord holding a tarp down snapped and hit the screen it put a crack/rock chip in the front screen.

I have had the complete screen Assembly off a few times but was looking to replace the cracked "sandwich" section.

Mr Bob can I order these parts from you? I just found this forum from doing some google searches..

I am looking to sell this TV but wanted to get the screen fixed before I do. It has become our secondary TV and is to big for the room it is in.

( the theater room got upgraded to a HD projector :D )


Oh and my crack is just in the Plexiglas layer.. can you just get that part separately? I have had a hard time trying to find any parts on line. Have called any TV repair places yet.

I hate having that thing on there. Why do you even want to replace it? Its only valid purpose is for protection of the lenticular beneath it. I have never run my sets with one of those on there, on a constant basis.

I'll sell you the one I removed from my 65" Panny and you can cut it down to size, if you wish. Or I can get you one -

Contact me by phone or my regular email address. NOT by pm, please -


Mr Bob

The 2 active layers are the fresnel closest to the mirror, and the lenticular in front of that, closest to us. That's the total optical screen sandwich complement.

The clear plexiglas layer in front of the lent, if there, is not needed, not part of the optics.

Let me know if you want me to order you replacements.


Mr Bob

Sorry if you've said this somewhere else...but how easy is it to remove the plexiglass layer? I've got a scratch in mine for years, it annoys me at times. If I do remove it, what are the consequences of say a 2-year old little one bumping into the under layer (lenticular)??

Sorry if you've said this somewhere else...but how easy is it to remove the plexiglass layer? I've got a scratch in mine for years, it annoys me at times. If I do remove it, what are the consequences of say a 2-year old little one bumping into the under layer (lenticular)??

Unfortunately, bad. 2 year olds - and 3 and 4 and 5...are why glarescreens - in this case called protection screens - were invented. The ONLY good reason IMHO...

I have personally witnessed 5 years olds actually banging on the screen with their hands and arms, full force and with full glee.

You have to dismantle the screen sandwich and remove it and put the sandwich back together without it. This usually involves removing the frame from the front of your set and removing lots of screws, but can involve removing the back instead on certain types of units (NOT Pioneer Elites!)

Be sure to wear linen gloves or mittens - ANY oil, including fingerprints or hand grease, sinks into the plastic parts and becomes extremely hard to remove.

Sometimes the sandwich is held together by tape - sometimes gooey electrical tape, sometimes fabric tape - and the best way to handle that is to slit it where you need to, with a box cutter where the blade is not fully exposed - just enough to cut the tape.

Do NOT put the whole array onto its side while out of the frame. The lenticular is very fragile, and the ribs are all that support it. If those vertical ribs go sideways, I have seen it come down on itself and slice itself up in the process, on the frame edge.


Mr Bob

Thanks Mr Bob.

Another issue I've noticed is the network indicator (ABC, CBS, etc) is cut off, no matter what zoom I have the set on. I searched this thread's history, read a few of your posts. The ones I found warn against changes, is there anything I may be missing that would be an adjustment within the boundaries of being able to maintain the TV as somewhat normal?

While I am at this...any calibrators in DC/Northern VA area?

Thanks!

Thanks Mr Bob.

Another issue I've noticed is the network indicator (ABC, CBS, etc) is cut off, no matter what zoom I have the set on. I searched this thread's history, read a few of your posts. The ones I found warn against changes, is there anything I may be missing that would be an adjustment within the boundaries of being able to maintain the TV as somewhat normal?

While I am at this...any calibrators in DC/Northern VA area?

Thanks!
You have an over scan issue which is common. It can be corrected but it isnt fool proof. The adjustments need to be made at the bottom of the TV. It should be a quick visit for a tech to adjust the Horiz and Vertical contols. In the St. Louis area it is about a $150.00 visit. Do not confuse this with a calibration.

You have an over scan issue which is common. It can be corrected but it isnt fool proof. The adjustments need to be made at the bottom of the TV. It should be a quick visit for a tech to adjust the Horiz and Vertical contols. In the St. Louis area it is about a $150.00 visit. Do not confuse this with a calibration.


Taking in the overscan is the easy part. Redoing all the hosing of the picture that happens as a result, that's where the talent comes in. It takes a total scratch realignment of the geometry, followed by intense convergence, to get it right again. On a Hit, you also have to be aware of the limitations of certain colors over others, in how much even CAN be moved, without running out of alignment room.

It is available during one of my calibrations, but I charge an extra $200/scanrate to do it on a Hit, Tosh or Pioneer, due to the extra work required.

The only non-foolproofness about it is if it is not done right, and that's never happened on one of my calibrations. I do it right every time, foolproofedly. (Not everyone will, tho, so maybe you're right, it's not fool PROOF...)

Done right, it's a fantastic improvement on your viewing area, and a palpable increase in your set's high intensity resolution. Done wrong, you'll wish you never started the process. Kind of like plastic surgery...

Trusting a regular repair tech to do it is VERY speculative, IMHO. It takes a CRT grade calibrator - it is NOT taught at ISF - or a REALLY dedicated DIYer who is not afraid of learning curves, to get it right again.

After you have begun the process, you're committed. You can't get it back by hitting some convenient reset button. If you paint yourself into a corner, it will be MORE expensive getting you out of it, than it woulda been to just have a CRT grade calibrator do it right in the first place.


Mr Bob

My wife was watching it the other day and the screen got a mix of colors and then died . I can't get any picture on it . Any ideas on what my be wrong ?? Thanks for any info .Please email if possible!!

My wife was watching it the other day and the screen got a mix of colors and then died . I can't get any picture on it . Any ideas on what my be wrong ?? Thanks for any info .Please email if possible!!


As per the pm response I just sent you -


Since your colors got all jumbled just before it went off, I suspect your conv ICs have gone bad and need to be replaced.

Many DIYers do it on their own, the rest get it done by repair people locally. It is a fairly common thing, in CRT tech. Like a thermostat on a car, you just replace the worn out part and keep going.

IF that's the problem! Nobody really knows nuttin', till the fat lady sings...

I offer a phone coaching service, if you wish.


PM'ers: Please contact me at my regular email address of bob at imageperfection dot com. My pm box is getting very full.

Send me your phone number and we can continue this live -


Mr Bob

I'm getting a very annoying humming noise from my Hitachi 57S700, I know a few other people have this problem, is there an easy fix?

Also sometimes when I'm watch OTA HD it seems like the sound is out of sync with the picture... or maybe I'm imagining it. Any one have any thoughts on these issues?

Also sometimes when I'm watch OTA HD it seems like the sound is out of sync with the picture... or maybe I'm imagining it. Any one have any thoughts on these issues?

This has been reported many times, on many brands, I suspect it has nothing to do with your particular brand acting up. DK if there is any fix for it yet.


Mr Bob

Hi,
My Hitachi 57s500 plays just fine until I plug somthing like a game player or a DVD player into one of the inputs then the picture starts to roll slowly up and will not stop. But the cableTV input works just fine. Is there a fix for this. Ive heard or read somewhere that the Mitsubishi models had a problem with the PIP module. Could this be the case for my Hit.57s500? Please help!