Hitachi s500/s700 Owners Thread [Text View]

waltj2k

12-21-03, 02:42 PM

My television arrived on Friday morning. Great looking set out of the box. I picked up a set of rabbit ears and was able to get 5-6 stations most importantly FOX, NBC, CBS. It is a night and day difference over Dish Network. Leno looked incredible. I A/B'ed Dish vs. OTA HD. HD colors are very vivid dish colors are washed out. Peoples eyes actually twinkle in HD it's very cool.

I have a strange problem that I am trying to work out. I had signal Friday night. Yesterday I turn on the Tampa Bay game and I guess weak signal started. There was lots of pixelation and finally it lost signal. Now the DTV antenna is telling me to got through setup 1st I have done the channel scan a couple of times and get nothing. So I don't understand how I had signal strong enough Friday night and cant get anything now. It's a pisser I am hoping it isn't the tuner itself. I am a ways away from the towers but again I was able to watch The Handler and Leno without problem friday night. So I don't know what is going on yet. I will keep you informed.

Walt

Marc Alexander

12-21-03, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by waltj2k
I A/B'ed Dish vs. OTA HD. SD Dish or HD Dish? HD Dish is every bit as good as OTA HD with HDNet and DiscoveryHD Theater.

waltj2k

12-21-03, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
SD Dish or HD Dish? HD Dish is every bit as good as OTA HD with HDNet and DiscoveryHD Theater.

SD dish to OTA HD comparision.

jwedding

12-21-03, 10:00 PM

I'm officially a Hitahi Ho?!? My 51s700 arrived this morning, and Comcast put in the HD hookup around 615 this evening.

Oh My Goodness. I don't even like football that much, but I'm watching the Colts game just for the sheer giddy joy. It's been a killer weekend for home theater goodies, and there's still some stuff arriving this week.

Thanks for all your help guys!

Stockman

12-21-03, 11:48 PM

Hello, to all you guys looking to get new DVD players with your new kickass TVs ;)

A must read (IMO) on DVD players. There is much much more to know and choose for than just progressive scan (which you might not need anymore really).

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_7_4/dvd-benchmark-part-5-progressive-10-2000.html

The below is a little out of date, missing the newer sets but shows you that getting $1,000+ sets doesn't promise you the best picture.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi

SM.

VegasFool

12-22-03, 01:29 AM

I'm thinking about picking up this set(51S500) at Sears. I was wondering where you got the price match from CC, Best Buy..etc. and is that in store or online. I mean did you come in with a printed out price from a webpage or did you get it from the stores itself. Also could you(whoever got the good deals) PM and tell me what you paid for it. So then I know how much "wiggle room" they have the price.

Thanks.

VegasFool

12-22-03, 01:34 AM

Also what would be a reason to get the S700 over the S500? I have a SD that isn't hooked up, I have Cable and plan to upgrade to their HD package. Some more advice would help.

Kensai_x

12-22-03, 01:50 AM

You guys might want to try what I did. Figure up how much the sears price will be with the match and discount/rebate. Go to a different local Hitachi dealer and offer to let them match/beat that price. Mine did. :) Just an idea that some folks might have overlooked.

waltj2k

12-22-03, 02:58 AM

Well guys. I just got done with my installation of my antenna. What a beating.

I went with the Radio Shack VU 90. I have a very tight attic space as my builder does the warehouse framing. So I had to get something that would fit but would handle the distance. I live about 45 miles from the towers.

Stopped by the Shack after attempting to find a channel master dealer locally. I couldn't so I just went with te Shack. Moron kid behind the counter sells me an open box unit...my 1st mistake. I get home open the box 1st thing I notice is no instructions. Return to the Shack for swap. I started about 6:30 and finished around 12:30 am. An hour trip to Wal Mart, numerous trips up and down the ladder finally finished.

I am getting great signal from all the Networks so I will be able to watch Monday night football tomorrow night in High Def. Man I look forward to that. I really wanted to see the Cowboys today in High Def but I wll have other opportunites as they have somehow made the playoffs

stflush

12-22-03, 08:11 AM

Originally posted by VegasFool
Also what would be a reason to get the S700 over the S500? I have a SD that isn't hooked up, I have Cable and plan to upgrade to their HD package. Some more advice would help.

The S700 has an integrated HD OTA tuner and firewire. Also, I'm not sure that the S500 has the $200 mail-in rebate, which is what helps make this deal. To price match, take a print out of the CC web page (I think you have to add it to your cart to see the price) with you. The deal is the CC price minus the mail-in rebate minus the 10% price match difference and a YMMV $100 instant rebate.

DitchDr

12-22-03, 09:17 AM

The S500 has a $100 mail-in rebate.

Rob_Z

12-22-03, 11:47 AM

Originally posted by VegasFool
I'm thinking about picking up this set(51S500) at Sears. I was wondering where you got the price match from CC, Best Buy..etc. and is that in store or online. I mean did you come in with a printed out price from a webpage or did you get it from the stores itself. Also could you(whoever got the good deals) PM and tell me what you paid for it. So then I know how much "wiggle room" they have the price.

Thanks.

I went in with a print out of the CC web site price. was 2399, now 2549.

Sears price match policy states: (from the Sunday paper) " from a local retail store's on line site"..."just print the ordering page...and bring it to your Sears store".

this is in their flier, in the fine print.

injaneer

12-23-03, 03:12 PM

OK I have a confirmed delivery date for tomorrow.

Oh boy, oh boy, oh boy...

Also have ordered a pioneer 363 DVD player that is also supposed to arrive tomorrow.

Merry Christmas to all Hitachi ho's (and everyone else also).

chris

TerminalEyes

12-23-03, 05:08 PM

DitchDr ... I am exchanging a V500 for an S500 due to arrive this Saturday. I do remember seeing a $100 mail-in rebate, but I can't find it on the Sears site. Do you have a resource for this? I would like to chop some more bucks off ;)

I have a Q for owners: What's the buzz on watching 2:35:1 material and its relationship to potential uneven phosphor wear? I hear a lot about 4:3 and sidebars, and that makes sense. Thing is, its seems that about half my DVD collection is in the wider formats ;)

I mean, I expected my move from LCD to CRT RPTV to come with this issue, but its good to know more about how current owners feel about it and deal with it.

abrodd

12-23-03, 05:30 PM

Well I think I desearve the idiot of the year award. The Sears Tech was just out to my house and figured out my tuner problem... I was plugging into the wrong connector!

In my hast to watch HDTV, i plugged my antenna into the "to converter" connector, not the Ant C DTV connector. The connection was on the opposite side of the television back and I never even noticed it!

Well, it looks great and I can't wait to see more!

Adam

The Void

12-23-03, 05:51 PM

injaneer, which model and size TV did you buy? When did you order it? I'm still not so patiently waiting for my 51S700 after 1 missed delivery date.

DitchDr

12-23-03, 06:25 PM

Terminal, find the s500 and click on rebate details, which is located under the price.

injaneer

12-23-03, 09:07 PM

abrodd - Great to hear that. I will have to try mine with some rabit years (now where did I put them).

The Void - I bought the 51s700 also. I ordered mine on Dec 11 They said the could not deliver until Dec 23, but I had them hold off one day because I was off work on the 24.

Cant wait .....

Chris

TerminalEyes

12-24-03, 02:05 PM

Thanks DitchDr, my mistake. I am getting the 57 and they only have the rebate for the 51 :( I got a good deal anyway, so no biggie.

Speaking of deals, my last strategy was to get the extended service contract for the V500 because I figured bulbs and their price/longevity were a big enough issue, (plus the the life of the LCD is not yet proven). The set was costly enough to make you want a replacement if it died. This time around, I was going for ultimate cost-cutting because I plan to go back to a new technology when my issues are dealt with -- LCD was pretty darn good, overall.

Now, I am contemplating the dirt and dust factor and lens cleaning as an issue over 3-5 years. With Sears annual cleaning, I wonder how much bang for the buck I could get having my optics cleaned professionally versus doing it myself?

Since CRT RPTV is a new realm for me, other than potential uneven phosphor wear, (burn-in) I am not sure how the long-term will go. I am speculating on selling the set in 3-5 years if I upgrade, or I could roll it into the bedroom as a second gargantuan viewing device ;) That depends on the factors stated.

injaneer

12-24-03, 11:53 PM

OK the set arrived today as expected. I must say the set did not overwhelm me when I first got things hooked up. I have had limited time to actually make adjustments and configure things. However we were able to watch a HD movie tonight on Showtime. And let me say I am alot more overwhelmed then I was this afternoon.

I think part of my problem is the tv is not in the exact position it will evenutally be. I am either going to build it in the wall where it sits or move it to the other wall. Figure I had time to play with it.

I have also finally hooked in my new DVD player long enought to do a quick check with VE (waiting on copy of DVE) to get colors/brightness/etc right. I know I will have to change this often in warm up but just wanted to start some place other than factory. I also popped in Nemo that my daughter got for christmas tonight and man it looked awesome.

I cant wait for this set to break in so I can start to tweak it .. I think it is a keeper. I have also been playing with my cable box trying to decide the best way to set it up for display on my tv. TW cable only provides about 3 HD channels in my area at the moment. So I will have to go find an antenna soon.

Much more to come later (including pictures). Now I must get ready for christmas.

Happy Holidays.
chris

stflush

12-27-03, 04:45 PM

I've got a question regarding SD picture quality. I've got D*, and I'm not to impressed with sports viewing. There seems to be a lack of detail (artifacts or blurriness) with certain shots. It's the same whether I'm viewing 4:3 standard or enhanced. Is this the norm for SD on RPTV's, or is this something I can improve with adjustments to the set? This is on a 51S700 I just got yesterday. Thanks.

Marc Alexander

12-28-03, 04:48 PM

It's D* and their extreme MPEG compression to allow for them to serve local channels to all those markets.

aglp2k

12-28-03, 04:57 PM

I tried programming my Hitachi 57s700 remote to control the Denon AVR-2803 receiver and Denon DCM-280 CD player using the codes mentioned in the owners manual(code 10 for the Receiver and 04 for the CD player). The codes are not working.

Has anyone on this forum tried this? The DVD player(Sony)and VCR(Toshiba) functions work fine. Thank you.

TerminalEyes

12-29-03, 02:05 PM

I have my new 57S500 and I have a tech question for owners. When doing magic focus, does the green part of the process look a bit fuzzy for you? I mean, red and blue are diamond sharp as it cycles, but green is obviously fuzzy as if out of focus.

Is that normal, or am I due for a tech visit to get that gun adjusted?

My second question to owners is about DVD quality. Compared to the 60V500 I had, the DVD quality appears just slightly worse. I recall reading some things about the way this set upconverts, but that may not be the issue.

I have what a Sony DVD player that is a few years old and it was actually fine for the last set, but now I am considering looking into something better to see if I can get some improvement.

I just want a better, low to midrange model for now: $200 - $300 or so. I really don't want to invest too much right now because I will probably plunk down mucho bucks when the blue laser HD DVD players are out and then get reasonably affordable -- I may have a few years, or so, to wait.

So, who is using what and what do they recommend? I would appreciate that because, in this case, seeing it on the set is what's most important compared to specs and brand.

abrodd

12-29-03, 05:32 PM

I just picked up a Samsung HD931 today and am going to play around tonight. I have an older APEX, which supprisingly looks pretty good via composite video! and a friends Sony progressive scan via component connection. The Sammy I will hook up via DVI to take advantage of its 720p and 1080i conversion. I will let everyone know what I find over the next couple of days.

frenchmarky

12-29-03, 06:58 PM

I have bought a 51S and a 57S. You should have equally sharp focus on red and green, and slightly out of focus on blue (they way they usually set them on purpose for better looking whites...I refocused mine and don't really see a difference).
Go into the color management menu and switch between red and green on that RGB line. If green still looks out of focus compared to red, first you could try adjusting the electronic focus pot for green at inside front of set, if that does not help (if it's already maxxed) you should be able to sharpen it up by a simple adjustment of the top lens of the green gun. See threads elsewhere here on how to do either of these. After you get the screen off neither of these adjustments are difficult at all.

frenchmarky

12-29-03, 07:01 PM

correction for the pot adjustment you only need to pull off the speaker cover and then unscrew the small front access panel, not remove the screen, so try this first.

Drew888

12-29-03, 11:18 PM

I have a 57S700 and it is replacing a 4.5yr old Mitsu RPTV that seems to display STD DishNetwork much better than my new Hitachi. My wife isn't impressed. DVDs on the other hand are breathtaking even on a non progressive player.
STD stuff looks much worse. images are not nearly as sharp and the image sometimes gets distorted like the satellite feed or the TV cannot draw the image fast enough and you see parts of two frames, as one is being drawn and the other hasn't yet left (sorry I don't know how to describe it). I encountered this real bad trying to watch a Smallville re-run the other night.

The other thing is when I get a better quality channel on the STD satellite feed the picture looks about as I remember (but it doesn't happen often enough), and all the non HD content suffers from jagged edges (sp?). I have 'sharpening' turned way down and it doesn't seem to matter.

Now I'm looking for help in making adjustments.

Why does it need to be broken in?, and why does the manual suggest it be done after 90 days?

If this problem can be adjusted out I'll keep it.

Thanks,

Paul Clancy

12-30-03, 09:22 AM

Be sure you have auto movie mode ON and edge enhancement, black enhancement OFF.

Stockman

12-30-03, 10:59 AM

Hello Drew888, if you try Pauls suggestion out can you post on any improvement, thanks.

I'v been looking at a new TV and must admit while looking at the CRT RPTV (the way I have to go) at BB showing football on SD, some have looked terrible when the camera pans. HUGE interlacing artifacts and I wasn't sure if this was what I was going to get with the set or the set was just poorly setup.
Would the interlacing artifacts go away if you choose 540p to watch it on a 57S500 or are there other options to help out? ei. does the auto movie mode Paul mention fix it.

Many thanks
SM.

Rob_Z

12-30-03, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by stflush
I've got a question regarding SD picture quality. I've got D*, and I'm not to impressed with sports viewing. There seems to be a lack of detail (artifacts or blurriness) with certain shots. It's the same whether I'm viewing 4:3 standard or enhanced. Is this the norm for SD on RPTV's, or is this something I can improve with adjustments to the set? This is on a 51S700 I just got yesterday. Thanks.

It's the Norm with all TV's LCD, DLP, CRT.

I pretty much watch all football on OTA HD. The Greenbay game looked awesome this past weekend.

aydu

12-30-03, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by Rob_Z
It's the Norm with all TV's LCD, DLP, CRT.

I pretty much watch all football on OTA HD. The Greenbay game looked awesome this past weekend.

I loved the Hitachi LCD sets until I saw this problem with SD sports material. In my test viewing, football looked good compared to hockey.

I think this is partially related to screen size and partially the technology being used to produce the image. In any event, this was a deal breaker for me, as I don't have HD available to me locally and don't want to move to a sat feed just for HD.

I ended up with the 42" Sony GWIII. To my eyes, it does the best job of any digital set on SD material. Sports didn't lose sharpness nor introduce the smear I saw with virtually all other digital sets - including the larger Sonys.

I view SD material using one of the stretch modes, and am still quite pleased with the PQ.

Overall, the bigger the screen you have, the more visible the problem will be. The Panny, Hitachi and Sammy sets show the problem more than the same sized Sony sets with SD.

With HD, all are great. Hitachi wins the matchup with a better remote, and stronget set of user adjustments.

stflush

12-30-03, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Rob_Z
It's the Norm with all TV's LCD, DLP, CRT.

I pretty much watch all football on OTA HD. The Greenbay game looked awesome this past weekend.

That's what I was afraid of. I agree, the Green Bay game did look great. To bad all games in HD is probably a long way off.....

injaneer

12-30-03, 10:27 PM

Ok I have created a document with the s700 default values from my TV. I think most of them are correct. I am assuming that these defaults would be the same for all the sets. Just thought this might be helpful to others on this forum.

This is Microsoft Word Document.

Now lets start tweaking .....

chris

Peter Loan

12-30-03, 11:10 PM

Can someone actually measure the depth of their 51S500/51S700 at the deepest point? I'm having a hard time believing that the set it over 25 inches deep! I can't fit anything over 24 :(

injaneer

12-31-03, 12:14 AM

Peter-
it is 25 1/4 and that is not leaving room for any cables to be connected..

chris

s4shawn

12-31-03, 11:02 AM

Anyone had some color issues? I've had my 57S700 for a few weeks now...I notice it most on hockey...the white rink I keep getting flashes of red. This happens on all inputs, inlcuding PS2 hockey. I also see it on some people's faces if the scene is light enough. Sears repair guy already came out and cleaned something from inside on the screen...adjusted the contrast a bit and problem 'seemed' to go away...but noticed it again last night. Any suggestions?

frenchmarky

12-31-03, 06:35 PM

What exactly do you mean by 'flashes" of red?...Frenchy

frenchmarky

12-31-03, 07:40 PM

<<<I have a 57S700 and it is replacing a 4.5yr old Mitsu RPTV that seems to display STD DishNetwork much better than my new Hitachi. My wife isn't impressed. DVDs on the other hand are breathtaking even on a non progressive player.STD stuff looks much worse. images are not nearly as sharp and the image sometimes gets distorted like the satellite feed or the TV cannot draw the image fast enough and you see parts of two frames, as one is being drawn and the other hasn't yet left (sorry I don't know how to describe it). I encountered this real bad trying to watch a Smallville re-run the other night.>>>

Since you aren't having the problem on HD or dvd I would chalk it up to the sources. Have you hooked up an antenna and gotten OTA HD? How does that look, or is that how you are watching Smallville?

chkelly

12-31-03, 08:15 PM

if i have directv and get the 700 with tuner, i can get the local HD right? I do not need an hdtv receiver in this case?

In this case, would i just be going to channel 4,7,9 etc because im using the antenna and not dtv?

s4shawn

01-01-04, 03:58 PM

hmm...its like my tv is an oven...warming up, then cooling down...but quickly. it is most noticable in light scenes. the light color background seems to warm up with too much red, then go back down to 'normal'.

i'd admit i was crazy and seeing things if my wife hadn't asked me about it herself, and she doesn't care much at all about the tv.

Originally posted by frenchmarky
What exactly do you mean by 'flashes" of red?...Frenchy

Paul Clancy

01-01-04, 04:46 PM

Most likely a defective crt.

kcgr

01-02-04, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by Paul Clancy
Be sure you have auto movie mode ON and edge enhancement, black enhancement OFF.

on my 51S700, the auto movie mode (3:2 pulldown) is greyed out. The manual (I looked at it!) says that it will not be available on inputs that are DVI or progressive scan component inputs 480p, 720p and 1080i. My DVD player is not a progressive scan unit, but I am using component cables feeding input 2.

Is this a typo in the manual, as it also notes in the "auto color" section that it (auto color) will be disabled for dvi and component inputs??

Am I missing something obvious?

thanks in advance

kcgr

01-03-04, 12:58 PM

OK ... now I feel silly. I was missing something- an actual feed. The DVD player was "off" and not sending its 480i signal, so there was no movie mode option available. Nevermind, I'll go back in my hidey-hole.

injaneer

01-03-04, 09:37 PM

OK I am watching my first HD NFL Football game tonight on my 51s700.

And all I can say is WOW !!!!

I will post my isf menu settings soon. Been tweaking them.

chris

injaneer

01-03-04, 11:32 PM

Here are my new ISF menu settings. This is after much tweaking. I am still in the process of learning so take these for what they are worth. I am very happy with my picture. The Only thing feel like I am missing is good grayscale because I think I am missing much shadow detail. Extremly difficult to eyeball grayscale when you really dont know what you are looking for. Oh well..

chris

how786

01-04-04, 09:53 AM

Hi all and happy New Year!

Could I get some advice on the relative merits of buying the S vs. the X 57" set?
I can't seem to find any direct comparison of the 2 sets and would deeply appreciate any input.
My main interest is in the picture quality not the cabinets.

Thanks
Howard

Chris Sharp

01-04-04, 11:56 AM

OK I am watching my first HD NFL Football game tonight on my 51s700.

Injaneer,

how are you receiving your HD signal? Are you using the built in tuner? Do you have an antenna? What kind? How many HD channels are you receiving?

I am very close to getting the 51S700 and I am in Raleigh. Just wondering how easy it is to get HD.

Chris

odinala

01-04-04, 12:57 PM

Have had my 57S700 for 19 days, initial SD viewing was very disappointing compared to my Hitachi 53SBX01, even the wife that's not a tv watcher noticed the difference. HD and DVD simply awesome. After searching numerous web sites for advice, took the advice to wait awhile to let the set settle in. Finally just played with contrast, brightness, sharpness, and color and feel I now have a picture close to my 53SBX01. Hopefully it will get somewhat better with time, however, based on what I've read SD is what it is on these sets. Then again, I'm sure most of us are really comparing the 57S700 SD picture against its HD and DVD PQ. My HD is OTA, refuse to pay Knology an additional $20 a month for two HD channels. Currently here in the Huntsville, Alabama area only local CBS, NBC and Public TV stations broadcast HD; waiting eagerly for FOX and ABC to get with the program.

injaneer

01-04-04, 01:12 PM

Chris Sharp,

I was watching it over the Time Warner Cable box. I have the tuner and did pick up the OTA ABC with an indoor antenna. I have not left this plugged in and am currently not using it. I might soon though. Time warner only gives me ABC, HBO, Showtime in HD at the moment. I think I can get FOX and PBS OTA. So maybe for Fox If will try it again ... Football.

YOu can probably get alot more OTA in Raleigh.

chris

abrodd

01-04-04, 01:53 PM

Chris,

I have the 51S700 as well. I live in Minneapolis and have several channels in HD. I went to Home Depot and purchased a cheap antenna (large outdoor type) and installed it in my attic. HD broadcasts are simply awesome!!! Go to antennaweb.org and type in your info, it will tell you what stations are available.

Adam

injaneer

01-04-04, 02:20 PM

Yes I have done that and determined that I can recieve the local ABC, FOX and PBS afiliates. The CBS, NBC are not yet available. PBS I am not concerned with and ABC is offered from my cable company in HD so I already have that one. So the antenna would give me one more channel. I am hoping by the time the other affiliates offer HD in my area the Cable company will pick them up.

chris

Gunner For Hire

01-04-04, 10:13 PM

Has anyone used any of the DVI DVD players or upscaling DVD players with the 57s500? I was thinking of going with a V inc. Bravo, a momitsu, DreamX, or the like. Please advise if anyone has compared one of these models with a "normal" progressive DVD player.

I don't wanna jump without asking how what's at the bottom.

--Jeff

MartyD

01-04-04, 10:25 PM

I bought a 51S700 (to be delivered next Saturday). I am concerned about the picture quality when viewing standard D*tv. I just do not see the benifit of upgrading to HD D*tv until more channels and Tivo are available (I recently purchased Tivo and love it). From what I have read in this forum, I will love DVD's and my HD locals on the 51S, but will I be happy with the standard D*tv? My five yr. old 48" Mitsubishi does a great job and I dont want to be disappointed. This is a significant investment for me.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

Marty

aack

01-05-04, 01:01 PM

Sorry so long - I tried to limit myself. :)

First and foremost I want to say thanks and major kudos, to all other members. I lurked here for over a week and followed every link I could find, prior to purchasing the 51S700.

The information I found, reminded me once again the power of the web. Forget (in general - no flame) salesman. Forget the glossy sales brochures. Forget the hype. Honest experiences, tempered through voluminous information, thats the ticket. :)

I purchased the 51S700 model for its specs, inclusive of the tuner. I looked at a minimum of 50 different 'showroom' tv's, and could not see a better bang for buck model. (although my 51S700 is clearer and more concise than any floor model I saw). Specifically I was torn between a 57 and 51. (of course even a 65). However I had to even out my desire for bigger with the actual placement and use. No matter what brand I found, or looked at, all of them seemed to display SD (4:3) with less and less clearity as size went up. Also, although 65 would have been awesome, realisticly all I could fit was 57, and that was slightly pushing it. (max view distance of 11 feet, with 7 feet for the wee one). For me, I really didn't want a STB for HD, and could see no reason. I have comcast, which is almost useless for regular cable, and they recomend an antenna if you want HD. :) - (see the Seattle thread). If not for scifi/discovery/cartoon/comedy networks, I'd cancel the cable. I always did recieve some excellent OTA service in my location, and HD tuners would given me a reason to plug the antenna (as well as cable) back in. So with the size figured out, and the model chosen. I began to look for the best deal.

Given the matching war going on with Sears and Circuit City, how could you go wrong. I showed Sears the print out from CC website AFTER placing it in my shopping cart, which meant that CC had already applied a rebate. The went to Sears, they matched, beat by 10% of the difference, and gave me the rebate. This means that I get the RPT for under 2K, delivered. In-freaking-credible for a model with so many excellent features.

Impressions upon initial set up. Ummm, all I can say is wow, I really have been missing out on some serious tv/movie watching. I get to watch all my favorite movies over again in a whole new light. :)

Out of the box, and after a power on and wait for a few hours, I began the 'lengthy' beginning process of adjusting. I'm not sure I understand why they don't come better adjusted - or perhaps as a rider option. Too much color, too much contrast, too much brightness. This was my easy first discovery.

The only adjustments I've really made are through the use of the THX tests on a 'Finding NEMO' DVD. Although it didn' seem like much it made a wrld of difference. Other than that I have only done slight tweaks, as I figure to let it get a bit broken in, then getting hold of an AVIA DVD and going form there. If as always stated, I am happy for a bit I'll then only slightly tweak it myself and perhaps in the spring or so get an ISF cal done. (Seattle/Shoreline folks can chime in here with recs please).

My setup:

Hitachi 51S700
Panasonic DMRE80H (love that hdd and DVD burner)
RCA VCR - top of the line when I bought it 7yrs ago.
Basic Cable on A and B
Rooftop VHF/UHF ANtenna (14yrs old but reception is great) on C

Will eventually add a bit of HT stuff and another DVD player for general use.

I can recieve a dozen or so HD channels (boo to all those sales folks who said not to get an integral HD tuner, anyways 50 bucks more for the 700 vs 500). I am getting all of them with perhaps 2 or so exceptions, at appx 80%+ signal strength, with a one time minor turning of my Antenna.

As for the remote, so far I really like it. No problem with getting it to handle all basic remote features for the DVD and VCR. Although it is taking a bit to become proficient with the thumb stick. I have no complaints.

As far as picture (PQ), I say again wow, and wow somemore. This is one of my most satisfying purchases ever, not a drop of remorse. The HD and DVD stuff is pretty incredible. Impossible to ever go back now. :D As to SD, well although I have read lots of bad press, and was a little worried, I don't see it. Most channels are better with few exceptions. The exceptions are not bad, just the already existing crappy cable signal (not my house as most are clear some are not) being somewhat amplified. In all events, TV watching has become a more pleasurable event and as to movies - oh man. I am looking forward to a Matrix Marathon when the final one is out. As well as a few other marathon nights. Not to forget I'd like to see Braveheart on the widescreen - and oh so many others.

Wow, I sure have rambled. ;) sorry.

To close, thanks again to all. At this point I can easily recommend this RPT, and assuming it continues to perform this well, will continue to recomend it. Please feel free to pass on any recomendations regarding adjustments and whatnot. This is a bit overwhelming with needing to adjust every input and night day, etc settings.

later..

aack

oops - forgot to add, although at first concerned, I do not have any 'fan' noise, as some have reported. It is dead silent when you turn of the volume.

And one newb question - If I get digital cable, do I need an STB?

BKC

01-05-04, 02:14 PM

I read this review from CNET and was wondering if it reflects some of your experiences with your S series TV.

http://reviews.cnet.com/Hitachi_57S500/4505-6484_7-30521418.html?tag=topprods

I'm not all that impressed with the DVD output on my 51" set, but then I as sample other people's TVs, it's not any worse and is perhaps a bit better than the others. Perhaps HDTV viewing is the only way to make me say wow.

FYI, I know about the convergence stuff, various tweaks so it's not like I'm starting out w/o any basic knowledge.

Perhaps my expectations were set way too high to begin with, but when people say images are breathtaking through a progressive scan DVD, component input connection, I'm just like ??????

And even more so now after having read the CNET review where they say some of the upsizing or whatever on the S units make it more suitable for non-prog view rather than the fancy 480p settings.

What's up?

KC Jammer

01-06-04, 12:31 AM

Thanks Aack for your informative post. I appreciate you and everyone else relating your experiences as it can only help guys like me down the road. Like you, I have been lurking and researching for a while now. The information contained within these forums is invaluable when preparing to take the RPT plunge, which, for me, will more than likely be for a 57" Hitachi.

I'm still several months away from making my purchase as I have 2 daughters graduating college in the spring and I want to wait until they're squared away before I take on any more major expenses. Until then, I plan to keep reading what everyone else has to share. Good stuff, all of it.

Thanks to all.
KC

Paul Clancy

01-06-04, 09:20 AM

BKC,
Expectations are a lot of it. If you're expecting hd from dvd you will be disappointed...it's not. However it can be the best dvd can be....that's sharp ...focus from center to edge, highly detailed (agin not hd but very good ) and color accuracy that's true to the source. Proper setup and adjustment is the key. Use a good reference quality dvd ie xmen or 5th element superbit as a point of reference . If these don't look as good or better than anything you've seen in a theater then adjustment is in order.

injaneer

01-06-04, 10:04 AM

Hey guys,

I added some shadow detail to my box last night by adjusting the STATG10 from 00 to 07. After doing so I had to turn down my brightness, which was good I had it turned up to high for shadow detail.

After doing this I also set my unit back up to the default gray scale values (DRV's, and CUT's). I started using the Black & White setting. All the rest of the settings seemed to add blue to the grayscale. I hope my B&W setting is close to 6500k. My eye saw no color ... Maybe I should get my eye checked..

chris

eejimen

01-06-04, 10:33 AM

Hellow everyone; Long time lurker first time poster :D

I have been following this thread and many other before making my Hitachi purchase, 51S700. The TV will be delivered on Sunday, 1/11/04. This is my first RPTV and never had experience calibrating any television. Eventually the TV will be ISF calibrated. But till then I want to calibrate myself for the best PQ.

The video sources are a Sony 550 DVD player (non-progressive); Xbox with HD Pack; cable box and OTA HD. As you may know, the Hitachi only has 2 component inputs. The DVD player and XBox will be connected to the component inputs; the cable box via S-Video and external antenna will connect to built in HD Tuner.

Initial configurations:
The TV will be delivered and unboxed by Sears. Depending on weather the TV will will not be turned on to prevent damage from condisation. I purchased Avia and will be following it for the calibration. Note - for the calibration I will be using our bedroom Apex progressive scan DVD player.

Questions?
What are the proper steps for calibrating a TV? ISF or Avia?
Should I make the ISF similar to injaneer?
Will my dvd 480i be upconverted?
Any advice?

Future:
New DVD Player (progressive) DVI optional.
Due to limited Component input and Digital audio inputs on my A/V reciever, I will be getting this .
As stated before, set will be ISF Calibrated.

Thanks in advance.

injaneer

01-06-04, 11:01 AM

I will try answer these questions best I can. However make sure you look at this post for much more detail information

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=273639&highlight=grayscale

Proper steps for ISF calibration are not possible without a color anyalzer. You need test equipment to get the Grayscale accurate. However you can get close with the information provided by Mfusick (Thank YOU Mfusick) in the post above.

I would not advise making the ISF menu exactly like mine. Similar is possible. There are alot of those settings that should probably be the same
for example
APRTR-3 01 00
APRTR-G 01 00
APRTR-I 00
APRTR-C 01 00

However the brightness, contrast, color, DRV/Cuts are all different based on TV, the amount of light in your room etc. etc.

Avia, or DVE, or VE for that matter will allow you to set brightness (contrast not really just lower it to around 25-30), color/tint.

However the DRV's CUT's can only be accurate with the use of test equipment .

My suggestion would be to get the avia disk and go through the basic setup of Brightness (just lower contrast), and color settings. Read the above thread and look at all the sharpness, edge enhancement, etc tweaks and do all of those. and probably leave the DRV/CUTs alone until you get ISF Calibration done (or by eyeballing grayscale you can see an obvious color).

Make sure you let the tv break in for about 100 hours use before you do many of these (or at least plan on redoing them after this).

I hope you enjoy you set as much I as I am.

Yes the 480i will be upconverted to 540p or 1080i. In fact everything will be converted to either 540p or 1080i based on which mode you select on the Hitachi.

Chris

injaneer

01-06-04, 11:29 AM

This file has been posted many places in this forum but I wanted go get it on this thread.

Now I just need to purchase Avia and retire my old Video Essentials disk (not even the Digital one).

chris

eejimen

01-06-04, 11:56 AM

Chris -

Thanks for all the help. I have read the thread you pointed me too and some parts go WAY over my head for right now. Do you have the service manuel for your the 51S700? Thank you for the Avia file too. How about SVM and EE, did you disable both of them? Have you tried doing a manuel convergence or focus adjustments? Did you configure all your inputs?

I have so many questions.

Lastly do you ever come to Raleigh? If so, we should meet. Or maybe try to organize a HT meet for people in our area.

injaneer

01-06-04, 01:05 PM

Most of that thread was over my head when I started also. But just take one section at a time and try that and learn it and move on. After a little while and trying the different things everything starts to fall in place. Much easier once you acutally have the TV to work with.

I did try a manual focus when I first started. Looked good so I did not change much. However it is about time I try it again.

Have not tried much of the other things except what is in the ISF and Flex menus as far as all inputs not really only have done the components 1/2 for Cable box and DVD. Not touched the S video etc. However did copy settings to them so maybe they are ok.

Sometimes, been awhile since I have been in raleigh. But yes that could be fun.

chris

Jason EC

01-07-04, 04:27 PM

BKC,

I can tell you that the DVD picture from my 57S700 improved IMMENSELY with the ISF menu sharpness tweaks. It used to be grainy with ringing, and soft at the same time; now the grain is almost invisible, but the picture is very detailed. I'm at 8.5 ft viewing distance. My player is a Mitsubishi DD-6000 with 480p.

What improved the sharpness was the APRT and SHRP (set all to 00 IIRC), and most dramatically, setting SRTGA-0 and YDTL-0 to taste (the latter is at 7).

muzz

01-07-04, 04:51 PM

This is a repost(with slight additions) of the main RPTV forum post I submitted last night, I actually forgot to put it here (DOH!- Thanks injaneer ), and this is where I have read the most about these units.... sorry folks..:

My 1st Big Screen on the way........

Ahhhhh the long journey through the murass that is shopping for my 1st big screen TV is just about over.... it really has been sort of a nightmare...
After going from the Mits 413 series to the Hit S500 series to the Sammy HLN DLP and of course the Hit and Sony LCDS........
I finally decided to save a few bux this time around(while LCD and DLP improve- and come down in price a bit) and broke down and got the Hitachi 51S700, the reason I got the 700 was because it ended up being only $50 more than the 500 . I got it from sears, and pricematched CC( like an earlier poster, I put it in my shopping cart, so they matched that price, +10%of difference). I also got a 3yr plan for now(it blows that the 1st yr is concurrent).
I also picked up the Pioneer DV-563AS player(BB) some AR component cables and the 5Th element (SB),T3, and Matrix reloaded....
This time I PURPOSELY went looking for the WS instead of the FS versions... which is kinda nice really ( first time EVER doing that, although I did state B4 the holidays to my family that I didn't want anymore FS movies.... I only got 1 though..- Pirates of Carribean, which I heard was kinda lousy, but it was free).

I cannot tell you guys how pumped I am right now ( I'm SURE you all know though, heheh).
It gets delivered on Tues. the 13th.

I wish to thank all the good folks in here who have shared their experiences (good and bad). Forums have always been where I get all the best info.
Nothing better than a BIG sample of end users to sift through, I do this for almost every purchase I make, as I belong to more than a few forums of different flavors.

Thanks Again Folks, and wish me luck.

Gary

Marc Alexander

01-07-04, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by injaneer
I added some shadow detail to my box last night by adjusting the STATG10 from 00 to 07. After doing so I had to turn down my brightness, which was good I had it turned up to high for shadow detail. STATG10 and STATG20 affect the gamma curve. Going to 07 does help with shadow detail. You really need some test equipment to perfect your gamma curve as the settings will differ depending on grayscale calibration.

s4shawn

01-08-04, 09:01 AM

Any suggestions on a way to isolate the defective crt...I had the problem when the Sears tech first came out, but was not able to show it enough for him to find a problem. Like others have mentioned, my tech also said how little training they get. I have until the 14th before my 30 days are up?

Originally posted by Paul Clancy
Most likely a defective crt.

Paul Clancy

01-08-04, 10:53 AM

Start watching a dvd. Pause it on a screen with some darker content. If it's a green crt go to the color decoder adjustment in the video menu and select G enter. On an all green screen it should be seen clearly. You can do the same for red and blue to see if they flicker.

Marc Alexander

01-08-04, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by s4shawn
Any suggestions on a way to isolate the defective crt...I had the problem when the Sears tech first came out, but was not able to show it enough for him to find a problem. Like others have mentioned, my tech also said how little training they get. I have until the 14th before my 30 days are up? It should be quite easy. Either display RED GREEN and BLUE color fields from a test disc, or display each gun seperately using the color settings menu.

RMSko

01-08-04, 01:45 PM

I'm looking to get the 51S500 and I'm trying to get a great price on it. I know rules prevent price quotes, but I'd greatly appreciate it if someone could PM me on a great price they got (from Sears?) and how they were able to get it. Thanks.

The Void

01-08-04, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by muzz
This time I PURPOSELY went looking for the WS instead of the FS versions... which is kinda nice really ( first time EVER doing that, although I did state B4 the holidays to my family that I didn't want anymore FS movies.... I only got 1 though..- Pirates of Carribean, which I heard was kinda lousy, but it was free).
Pirates of the Carribean is only in widescreen. So if you got it on DVD, it's in widescreen. I really enjoyed the movie, one of my favorites this year.

muzz

01-08-04, 05:49 PM

Yes it is in WS.
I meant that I only got 1 DVD!! Bah it was not the best Xmas for entertainment purposes.....
But I kinda fixed that a little later didn't I...:D
I'd be happy if I like POC anywhere near the amount you did.

Jason EC

01-08-04, 08:03 PM

I tried playing with STATG10. 00 (default) was "bright", then 01 was dark, progressively becoming brighter as I went to 07. 07 was roughly similar to 00.

Changing the value changed the color - I had to at least, reset the color (aside from brightness and contrast).

I tried it for a while, and the highlights just lost their "punch". Faces looked pasty under some light.

So I tried STATG10 = 05, and again readjusted color, brightness, and contrast. I also had to readjust yellow and red a bit (by eye).

It was a bit better, but somehow it was still a bit off.. somehow.. not just color but also the highlights.

I didn't try and spend more time fixing the resulting color.

Anyone had better luck? Indeed my set seems to have something funky in its gamma - some shadow detail is lost, especially with 1080i, even with BE off.

Can I adjust the gamma in OTA 1080i without affecting DVD/component input 1?

injaneer

01-09-04, 10:25 AM

Jason I did notice this. 00 being bright nad 01 being darker then getting brighter as you went up. I believe I actually played with both STATG10 and STATG20. 20 seemed to make smaller steps. I will check to see what I left it on but I think it was like STATG10 06 and STATG20 03

I didnt notice any difference in highlights. Maybe I will go back in this weekend and try to compare.

chris

darrenp01

01-09-04, 12:43 PM

"Yes the 480i will be upconverted to 540p or 1080i. In fact everything will be converted to either 540p or 1080i based on which mode you select on the Hitachi."

Sorry for the noobie style question about this comment, but were you saying that all material(480i and 720p) are either converted to 540p or 1080i, or were you saying that everything 480i wise is converted to 540p or 1080i based on which mode you select on the Hitachi. Im assuming you mean the later, but I just want to make sure, I'm actually going to buy this tv this weekend, and was confused by what you said.

Jason EC

01-09-04, 12:52 PM

Last night on a whim, I tried STATG10 = 04, then used AVIA to readjust brightness, contrast, color, tint, color decoder, and had to add a little red back to the color system menu. (a bit of a pain).

I think it looks better. Jay Leno OTA had more shadow detail and the dynamic range wasn't as exaggerated. There wasn't that pasty quality I saw when I tried STATG10=05 (but at the time I didn't use AVIA to readjust the color decoder).

I watched Pirates of the Carribean and it was eye-popping - I didn't feel a sense of loss of shadow detail. Darn, I think that DVD is even better than 5th Element. Gotta go find me a used copy at Blockbuster.

This morning I looked at your suggestion about STATG20. It seems to affect my antenna C input, and not my DVD / component input 1. It'll be hard to test it without a reference 1080i picture.

Overall, it's hard to compare different setting of STATG!0 or STATG20 because you have to go readjust brightness, contrast, and the colors. I tried using the AVIA gray ramps and steps.. but I would have to photograph it with my digital camera at a fixed setting, or use a light meter on the bars and write down the values to really know what it does to the gamma / midtones / shadows. Anyone have a light meter? :)

Cheers.

injaneer

01-09-04, 01:04 PM

basically the tv only has two modes 540p and 1080i. If the feed is 480i/480p you can chose between 540p and 1080i. if you feed is 720p or 1080i you can only display this in 1080i ( you cannot downconvert).

I hope this helps.
chris

milesed

01-09-04, 02:56 PM

I am interested in this line due to the split cabinet. Has anyone done this or seen it done for delivery?
I have to get a TV down a 44" wide hall and make a 90 degree turn through a 36" wide door. Most RPTV's are too big and I wonder if these might fit if taken apart. I looked on the downloadable manual at the website and could find no mention of how to take it apart and what the peices' dimensions are. Thanks for any help.

s4shawn

01-09-04, 03:22 PM

They took apart my 57S700 to get into my basement...tight turn. It was still tight with the TV in half...there are directions on the TV of how to take it apart. You open the handle, reach inside, unhook a wire, unscrew 4 screws and away you go. Beware, the guys from Sears did not think much about it and they unpacked it in my garage, then carried the 2-pieces through the rain.

I love the TV though...HD rox!

darrenp01

01-09-04, 07:43 PM

injaneer - Yeah that does help thank you. I was under the impression from looking at the spec sheet on this tv, and reading the posts here on the forum that this tv did 720p natively, but then after seeing that I went back and looked again and noticed I was wrong it does 480i/480p/540p/720p/1080i input processing...Thank you for pointing this out to me I apparently had read over the spec sheet a little to quickly, and I was about to buy this tv strickly on the fact that I thought it displayed 720p natively without the having to upconvert. Now that I know this I'm gonna have to re-evaluate my choices again.

Paul Clancy

01-09-04, 09:57 PM

I don't believe any current crt based rptv does 720p native. Look at fixed pixel technology for this...dlp, lcd, lcos.

Vin

01-11-04, 08:11 PM

I noticed that CC no longer shows the 65S700 on their website. I'm pretty sure that out of stock items are normally still shown but noted as out of stock, not completely removed from the website.

I had been considering this set with the pricematch and rebate from Sears because it works out to be such a good deal. (Sears still shows the set on their website).

It seems I missed the boat on this one. Does anyone know for sure if CC has indeed stopped carrying the 65S700?

Vin

eejimen

01-12-04, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by s4shawn
They took apart my 57S700 to get into my basement...tight turn. It was still tight with the TV in half...there are directions on the TV of how to take it apart. You open the handle, reach inside, unhook a wire, unscrew 4 screws and away you go. ...

HELP

I tried to take delivery this morning for my 51S700 but was not able to get it up the stairs. We tried taking it apart but could figure it out. We also tried removing the front screen but still not enough to make the turn on the stairs. So I turned down the delivery and will reschedule if I can find a solution. The only other solution is to put the TV on it side but I don't know if that is a good idea. Anyone please help me.

oxothuk

01-12-04, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by eejimen
HELP

I tried to take delivery this morning for my 51S700 but was not able to get it up the stairs. We tried taking it apart but could figure it out. We also tried removing the front screen but still not enough to make the turn on the stairs. So I turned down the delivery and will reschedule if I can find a solution. The only other solution is to put the TV on it side but I don't know if that is a good idea. Anyone please help me.
51 inch models are not designed to come apart; only 57 and 65 inch models have the split case design. Would a 57 incher be too big for you?

The Void

01-12-04, 02:53 PM

Does anyone know where I can get the service manual for the 51S700 or S500? I have the S700 but the S500 manual would give me the information I need.

eejimen

01-12-04, 03:02 PM

57 wouldn't be to big but it would cost more money. I purchased the TV with price match from CC so I doubt I will get the same deal.

vincatzero

01-12-04, 03:51 PM

I took delivery of my 65S700 a few days ago. Almost didn't.

The delevery people told me it would be a tight fit and i should take the door off the room the TV was going. Then they went out to bring it in. They came back a few seconds later and told me to stop and there was no way it was going to fit. They only thought it would becaue they thought I was getting the 57 inch. I told them I had measured extensivly and if the TV was separated it would work. They said it was impossible and I would have to get a smaller TV.

My fiancee quickly told them to bring a smaller one. I stopped them and told them to just put it in the living room and I would get it where it was going. My brother came over and we got it into the room (once separated) without too much trouble.

It makes me angry though. I paid for them to put it where I wanted it, I was sure it would fit, but they still wouldn't do it. Maybe there's a way I could get part of my delevery fee back. ...?

TV is awesome BTW :)

s4shawn

01-12-04, 05:28 PM

The Sears delivery guys didn't want to bring my 57S700 in either. I said "What if you split it into 2-pieces?"...they kind of grumbled that they still didn't think it would fit, but finally gave it a try. They did a good job, and it was quite akward going downstairs around a corner to the basement.

Originally posted by vincatzero
I took delivery of my 65S700 a few days ago. Almost didn't.

The delevery people told me it would be a tight fit and i should take the door off the room the TV was going. Then they went out to bring it in. They came back a few seconds later and told me to stop and there was no way it was going to fit. They only thought it would becaue they thought I was getting the 57 inch. I told them I had measured extensivly and if the TV was separated it would work. They said it was impossible and I would have to get a smaller TV.

My fiancee quickly told them to bring a smaller one. I stopped them and told them to just put it in the living room and I would get it where it was going. My brother came over and we got it into the room (once separated) without too much trouble.

It makes me angry though. I paid for them to put it where I wanted it, I was sure it would fit, but they still wouldn't do it. Maybe there's a way I could get part of my delevery fee back. ...?

TV is awesome BTW :)

eejimen

01-13-04, 10:49 AM

Ok the problem has been resolved, Lex Style . After doing some more research, only the 57" and 65" TVs seperat into 2 seperate boxes. I went back to Sears and we worked out a deal on the 57S500. The upside is a bigger TV and the downside is no HD Tuner and no firewire. This does not really concern me cause my local cable company, Time Warner, carries most of the OTA HD plus HD movie channels. The other good news is that I will be getting the tv by Friday of this week.

It was funny to see my wifes face when I told her that we need a bigger tv cause the 51" was to big. :D

The Sears delivery guys didn't want to bring my 57S700 in either. I said "What if you split it into 2-pieces?"...they kind of grumbled that they still didn't think it would fit, but finally gave it a try. They did a good job, and it was quite akward going downstairs around a corner to the basement.

s4shawn and vincant0 - can you please explain exactly how to seperate the TV into 2 units? How heavy is each piece? Should I request a 4 man team cause each piece may have to be lifted over a banister. I hope this works.

oxothuk

01-13-04, 12:54 PM

Originally posted by eejimen
57 wouldn't be to big but it would cost more money. I purchased the TV with price match from CC so I doubt I will get the same deal.
Exact same price, probably not. But you could argue for a similar deal, along the lines of
(what you paid for 51S700)*(MSRP of 57S700)/(MSRP of 51S700).

s4shawn

01-13-04, 01:08 PM

eejimen, a 2-man team from sears took apart and carried my 57 in. the directions were in a pouch on the back of the tv. see my brief directions in an earlier post.

if you are not having sears (or whoever) deliver it, go ahead and get all the help you can get. i don't think it was extremely heavy (as separate pieces), but moving guys seem to be able to lift a lot more than regular folks know how to lift ;)

good luck and enjoy (i sure am)!

Mack2003

01-13-04, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by The Void
Does anyone know where I can get the service manual for the 51S700 or S500? I have the S700 but the S500 manual would give me the information I need.

Projection Color TV Operating Guide can be found on line.
51/57/65S700
merchant.satisfusion.com/sf/WarrantyCenter/registration/secure/Hitachi/Manuals/SearchResults.jsp

klmonline

01-14-04, 12:27 AM

A big thanks to all posting AVS'ers! I finally bit the bullet and ordered my 57S700 at Sears tonight. I had been holding off for an X model purchase, but the combination of availability and price finally pushed me into just going ahead and grabbing the S.

Sears is running a special right now where $$$ projection TV's get free in-home delivery and setup (mine will be delivered this very Saturday!), a $200 rebate off the purchase price, and a credit of $100 towards a combo DVD/VCR unit (which my GF can use).

You've got to love the loyalty of Sears employees towards the corporate profit margins of their employer. I walked in with three computer printouts showing rock-bottom prices off the internet from no-name dealers. I told the salesman that I knew they had a price match policy towards local online stores, but I was ready to hand him my card right there and even let him sell me a high-margin extended warranty if he'd match their price. The poor guy was new and in a fluster. He desperately wanted to do the deal and desperately didn't want to call over a manager (either because she'd nix it or steal the sale). Finally another young clerk strolled back from his break and asked what was going on. My guy explained the situation and begged, "I don't have to get a manager, do I?"

The younger man said, "Heck no. You've seen the price. Enter the price match code and give it to him. There. Done deal."

So I strolled out with a new Hitachi from Sears at better than internet pricing. I love America.

Here's hoping I love the set too!

Question for the crowd... has anybody floor mounted a center channel speaker on a stand immediately in front of and just below the screen? I am worried about the magnetic fields affecting the focus, since the guns are down there. I'm none too sure about the rear-facing shielding on my speaker (a Vienna Acoustics Maestro, for them what cares). The beast weighs 30 pounds and might bend the top of the set over time if I balance it up there. Besides, there's all the hoopla about maintaining a vertically aligned front soundstage and all that.

Anybody try it and notice problems?

PPS: After initial settling in period and DVE home tweaking, I'll be wanting an ISF calibration. Anybody used a good Hitachi person in the San Francisco Bay Area? I'm in Mountain View.

--Ken

injaneer

01-14-04, 12:30 AM

Ken enjoy your set. Mine keeps getting better and bettter ....

chris

Mack2003

01-14-04, 05:55 AM

Greeting's all Ho's.

51 miles West of Chicago and Day 1 picked up 12 OTA DTV channels.

Day two added 25db amp from Home Depot with FM trap ON connected at wall before TV and am now at 19 channels on Antenna C. Signal strength increased from 60% to 90% on some channels.

Note: 19 DTV channels received on one antenna direction. Haven't tried North, Wisconsin, or West , Rockford yet.

Antenna A , roof top also, receives decent picture quality for SD.

DVD Pan RP56 seems to work just fine for movies.

Just figured out how to get into ISF mode with your help.

Thanks for all the info overload!

:D

milesed

01-14-04, 10:50 AM

For those who separated the unit into 2 parts for delivery, do you know what the dimensions are once taken apart?

waltj2k

01-14-04, 11:32 PM

51S700 4 week report.

I have had my set since mid December and just thought I would let you guys know hoow it has been going.

I will say that High Definition is phenominal. I have enjoyed the football games that have been broadcast in HiDef. I got a chance to catch the last Monday Night game of the season. Farve was unconscience that night. I was able to install an antenna in the attic of my home. It has worked effectively for most of the stations that are available for DFW. Colors are vibrant and detail is excellent. I was amazed that you could see every scratch on a players helmet. So the OTA tuner seems to do what it is supposed to do. I also experience the high pitch whine. It is noticable at low volume. I can live with it though. Hopefully it doesn't get worse.

Satellite broadcast:
Here is where I am somewhat disappointed. I was watching West Wing tonight and all the color was completely washed out. On satellite there was a red dress worn by the characters. On the HiDef side it was a vibrant red dress. On Sat it was this washed out sorta red dress. I know this television can produce stunning color. I not blaming the television for poor SD broadcasts. It seems that Sat isn't up to the capabilities of this television.

DVD
This experience has been great. I dont have a prog scan player so I know this will improve with that upgrade. I haven't made a decision yet as to whick I will get. I am leaning toward the Pioneer 563a because of price point and performance at that price point.

XBOX
This was cool at 1st. It has been great playing in widescreen all the enjoyable games. Then I wised up and realized that I had HiDef television and got the proper HiDef cables. Wow what a difference. A great example is the Simpsons Hit and Run. The game has a diffent look in HiDef vs. Standard def.

The remote
This thing ain't great. Considering that this television MSRP's at $2500 Hitachi has missed that mark. No ergonomics no backlighting makes this a difficult remote to wield. But I guess the manufacturers assume people have universals now and don't need to put a lot of effort into their remotes. Which is fine as I have the great Radio Shack 15-1994 to command my system.

Stretch modes.
When I was shopping for televisions I had major concerns about stretch modes. The stretches on the Hitachi did impress me once It was delivered to my home. I have found that different stretches work better for different programs. For example SportsCenter looks better with 4:3 expanded that 16:9. You lose less of the info at the bottom of the screen. I still think that Mitsubishi (current year)has better stretches with their stretch plus mode. Maybe Hitachi will create some improved stretches and we can upgrade.

Now that I have to time on the television I am getting prepared to get into the tweaking aspects of this set. Hopefully I can make this thing sing. I would would love to have it professionally calibrated but that is a very expensive endeavor. So reasearch on this site and hometheaterspot I should be able to get close.

Overall I am very happy with my 51S700.

cracka

01-15-04, 02:34 AM

I've had my 65S700 about a month now too, and overall I'm pretty happy with it... I'll be much happier when I can get rid of the glare-happy protective screen, but the HD performance is not disappointing in any way.

As a tangent, I'd like to report that JVC DVHS machines - or at least the HM-DH30000U - work seamlessly with the built-in ATSC tuner over firewire. The A/V Net interface is extremely funky, but the recording & playback are flawless so far. And a pleasant surprise, as my A/V receiver is fresh out of digital audio inputs, the S700's optical ouput sends the audio stream from recorded material played back over firewire... which makes perfect sense in retrospect, but I expected nothing but trouble going in. ;)

I couldn't find any posts about this equipment combination before I got the DVHS, so I thought I'd throw that out there for anyone who's mulling it over.

muzz

01-15-04, 08:30 AM

Well I finally repainted the whole room, and it was spotless for delivery this morning.....
They showed up, and can't get the 51S700 around the corner and down the stairs to the finished basement.....
My buddy and I could have by tipping it up vertically and sliding it onto the top step, turning it and picking it up again on the way down, but as it was the guys were ready to give in B4 I was...
My buddy just tore his meniscus, so he is out of action for awhile unfortunately......
I had to refuse delivery, so now I will have to get the 57" that splits into 2 pieces...
I really didn't want the 57", as I am a bit concerned I will be too close to the screen.....
I will be about 8' away from the screen.

Does anyone own a 57" and sit that close to the TV?
If so how is it?
I have to go to Sears and make a decision very soon if I want to have this thing installed for the big game.
I was hoping to catch the Pats vs Indy in HD this weekend, but I can see that isn't gonna happen.
I'm hopeful that the Pats make it past Indy this week and I am able to watch them in full HD glory in the Astrodome come Feb.1st.
First I need to order a different TV...but I need one that will actually make it down the stairs, and I would think that the 2 piece 57" will do that.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

m

JIMHALM4

01-15-04, 08:42 AM

Help!!!!
I manually converged my 51S500, now when I try to auto converge
I get a screen that says dynamic convergence and a full screen single
crosshair pattern

By the way, Great Forum

JIMHALM4

01-15-04, 09:05 AM

RE my post above, Its says "Static Mode" not dynamic, Sorry about that!

injaneer

01-15-04, 09:56 AM

JimHalm4 .. I did that also the other day. If you do not exit correctly you are stuck in this mode. However if you open the front panel behind the speaker grill. Inside the TV on the bottom left hand side is a little blue button. take a pencil (I used the eraser end) and push this button that will reset the magic focus.

Next time you do manual converge make sure you hit Pip Mode and the Surf button to start magic focus again.

chris

s4shawn

01-15-04, 10:56 AM

I had a similar situation with stairs and basement...luckily the 57" split fit the bill. I sit 9.5ft from the screen on the couch, at times I think it is a little too big, but I usually get adjusted to it after a few minutes. Some programming seems to make me feel it is too big, like I have to scan the screen to see everything. Sometimes I play PS2 on the ottoman in front of the couch at ~7.5ft. this is OK, but I usually eventually move back onto the couch...mostly for back support, but some for screen distance. Hope this helps some.

Heck, give the 57 a try...if It is too big return it!

Originally posted by muzz

I really didn't want the 57", as I am a bit concerned I will be too close to the screen.....
I will be about 8' away from the screen.

Does anyone own a 57" and sit that close to the TV?
If so how is it?
I have to go to Sears and make a decision very soon if I want to have this thing installed for the big game.
I was hoping to catch the Pats vs Indy in HD this weekend, but I can see that isn't gonna happen.
I'm hopeful that the Pats make it past Indy this week and I am able to watch them in full HD glory in the Astrodome come Feb.1st.
First I need to order a different TV...but I need one that will actually make it down the stairs, and I would think that the 2 piece 57" will do that.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

m

muzz

01-15-04, 11:09 AM

Thanks s4shawn.

If I want to get a tv down here, it will have to be a split it seems..... and the mits. sets ( from what I have seen at their site) don't split until 65", which is way to big for that distance IMO.

I guess I'm gonna have to get the 57", and deal with it.

Thanks again.

m

JIMHALM4

01-15-04, 12:28 PM

injaneer

Thanks, that did the trick.

muzz

01-15-04, 05:19 PM

Well I went back to Sears and the salesman(a different guy from the original sale) was pretty cool. He let me keep the original pricematch( for the 51s700 vs CC ) without evidence of CC's price for the 57S700(cuz they don't sell it anymore it seems) he even looked for the 57S700 at CC website, and didn't find it ( I knew it wouldn't be there, cuz I looked earlier). He said I'll just give ya the old pricematch (which was from a decent sale at CC) and carry it over.
I was pretty pumped, plus he checked the service plan for the 57 and it is $100 LESS than the 51 was priced at, so I got that back also.

So for what is really pennies extra at this point I got the 57 instead.

I"ll have it Saturday......... and I'll be watching the games on it this weekend!!

Yeeeeeeeehaaaaaaaaawwwwwww I'll be able to get it downstairs!!

joekarglo

01-16-04, 04:38 PM

Hi all: have had 51S700 for a month now and would definitely buy again esp. considering unbelievable price. did the Sears/CC match deal. I love the ability to move the picture up and down--can't stand the crawls at the bottom of news channels! receiving HD OTA but not that much better than analog cable and Directv sigs., except for live sports--then there is no comparison. Only real complaint is what I understand to be power supply fan noise. Wonder if anyone has had any luck with that? BTW, saw an unbelievable picture at local video store on a Samsung 50" DLP. Much better than rp lcd/plasma. Pls advise on fan noise.

jwedding

01-16-04, 05:26 PM

Now that you've noticed the whine, you'll never be happy, sorry.

ttp://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=341008

I wound up returning that TV cause the whine made me nuts. :(

JIMHALM4

01-17-04, 07:16 AM

What does the "factory reset" setting do in the service menu. Does it reset settings in the service menu or user settings in the TV settings Menu???

rman65

01-17-04, 11:27 PM

While watching a DVD tonight, I discovered that the screen on my 57S500 is concave. I was at the side of the set with an image that ran the full height of the screen (MS-Windows menu), and noticed that it curved inwards big-time. I grabbed a straight-edge and put it vertically against the bottom and top bezel. Distance to screen at bottom and top was 1cm. At the middle of the screen it was 2cm. same thing horizontally, about 1cm (4/10 of an inch, for my neighbours down south) concave from the edges to the centre. The bezel also bulges slightly outward at bottom-centre.

Am I being too anal - is this normal!?! Seems to me this kind of curvature would make focus, geometry, convergence, etc. a challenge at best.

I've had my set for about 5 weeks now. First week I had it, I discovered the geometry was way off (almost an inch on the left side, and a good bit on the right too) - this was finally fixed after 3 service calls last week (local tech had to order an overlay, etc.).

I also have the green issue on darks that Pillguy was looking for some meds for. I raised this with the tech who did the geometry, and, since he had the front panel off, he spun the pots around a bit (eyeballed it), to fix greyscale!!!

Things still are not good, but I'm not ready to play beyond user controls as I think the set needs more work, and don't want to do anything that would compromise the warranty.

Any thoughts/guidance from fellow Ho's would be appreciated.

TIA,
r.

gambrelw

01-18-04, 12:08 AM

rman,

Personally, I think your tech was clueless, like most. My guess it that he never got geometry correct in the first place, even with the template. Of course, you are still very early on the sets DCU life and it drifts a lot in the first two months. The hitachi DCU is horrible for the most part and will not stablize fully for many months. You should have asked to keep the template. As far as the green, I hope that one day techs will quit playing with the pots. They don't realize there are equivalent adjustments in the service menu (CUTS). And they have no idea what drives are.

Bill

rman65

01-18-04, 12:17 AM

Thanks Bill - all the more reason for my dilemna - the tech was from the local Hitachi authorized service company.

Grayscale aside, I can fix most of the "configuration" issues myself if push comes to shove. My beef is that I dropped $4K Canadian on this set after three months of research, and would have expected a higher level of service from Hitachi Canada.

Still wondering about the physical concave issue of the screen though (not just geometry). Since the bezel is warped, I put the straight-edge (padded) against the screen itself, and it bows inward 5/8" at centre (from corner to corner, i.e. lower left to upper right and vice-versa).

r.

keithhr

01-18-04, 03:48 AM

I couldn't stand it anymore, I purchased a Hitachi Ultravision rear projection 51S700 integrated (with HDTV receiver) tuner. It's supposed to be delivered Sunday the 18th and they were supposed to call with a time on Saturday evening. They didn't call and now I'm rather irritated.I should be able to get most of the local HDTV stations because I'm in line of sight to the Sutro Tower in San Francisco. I got it for a good price and I can say that the sals people at Circuit City are morons. The salesmen(2) and video department manager all told me that they didn't have any HDTV sets with integrated tuner, couldn't get one, only could sell what was listed in their computer and the one I wanted wasn't in it. I called another store a bit further away and was told there were 30 of the sets that I wanted in their delivery warehouse for a cheaper price than they were offering it online for. I called the store manager back at the store I originally went to and told him(nicely) how effective and helpful his entire sales staff had been. He then proceeded to do some wonderful pricing cutting procedures to give me a show of good faith. He further reduced the set by a few hundred dollars so he could in effect give me a custom extended warranty at half pric. He also threw in a portable dvd player,soooooo, if they actually deliver it on Sunday I will be pleased. Does anyone think they will come through? I ordered it,(paid for it in the store Friday night just to make sure) and was told they would call on saturday evening and they didn't

ddilts399

01-18-04, 08:09 PM

Anyone have the 65" with a 12'ish viewing distance ? Looking at upgrading from a 55" to the 65" but not wanting to push the furniture back since it would get into my work space.

Marc Alexander

01-18-04, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by rman65
Still wondering about the physical concave issue of the screen though (not just geometry). Since the bezel is warped, I put the straight-edge (padded) against the screen itself, and it bows inward 5/8" at centre (from corner to corner, i.e. lower left to upper right and vice-versa). This is not normal...exchange for another set.

waltj2k

01-18-04, 11:53 PM

Does the 51S700 handle DCDI on board. I am thinking of getting a prog scan DVD player and would just like an inexpensive stop gap player until the newer units come out.

So my thinking is buy a less expensive DVD player and let the television handle the processing. Is this do able with this television?

The Void

01-19-04, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by waltj2k
Does the 51S700 handle DCDI on board. I am thinking of getting a prog scan DVD player and would just like an inexpensive stop gap player until the newer units come out.

So my thinking is buy a less expensive DVD player and let the television handle the processing. Is this do able with this television?
Yes, the 51S700 will do the deinterlacing so you don't have to have a progressive scan player. Actually, you probably wouldn't see any improvement unless you got a progressive scan player over $300. Most of the cheap progressive scan players will look worse in progressive mode. The deinterlacing in the Hitachi is pretty good.

waltj2k

01-19-04, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by The Void
Yes, the 51S700 will do the deinterlacing so you don't have to have a progressive scan player. Actually, you probably wouldn't see any improvement unless you got a progressive scan player over $300. Most of the cheap progressive scan players will look worse in progressive mode. The deinterlacing in the Hitachi is pretty good.

OK so I have a disc player now that is Non Progressive scan. What do I need to setup to get the television to handle the deinterlacing. Is there a setup in the disc player or on the television itself?

My local tweeter has a panasonic rp91 for less than $200 without remote. But I may wait for the rp97 later this year.

oxothuk

01-19-04, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by waltj2k
OK so I have a disc player now that is Non Progressive scan. What do I need to setup to get the television to handle the deinterlacing. Is there a setup in the disc player or on the television itself?
I have an SWX20B (last year's model) and all you need to do is choose the "Movies" mode for that input. Look in the Video menu for a settiing called "Picture Mode".

Paul Clancy

01-19-04, 09:22 AM

On the s/t/x models go to the 2nd page of the Video settings (scroll down) and turn auto movie mode ON (it's off by default). That turns on 3:2 pulldown correction and makes a huge difference. Also turn off edge enhancement, auto color and black enhancement.

BKC

01-19-04, 01:34 PM

My 51S500 turned off and on again by itself while watching some football the other day.

Marc Alexander told me to set the video 2 input remote control to off and I did that, but it still turned on and off by itself in the span of say 1.5 seconds. Second time this has happened in the two months I've owned the TV.

Marc or anyone else, have any clue what's going on?

cracka

01-19-04, 01:59 PM

I'm not sure how I missed this before, but my 65S700 has a small area that looks like it has dirty water spots in the bottom right corner of the screen. I tried cleaning them, but they're either on the inside of the protective screen or on the projection screen itself. Anybody seen anything else like this? It's fairly obvious when there's a light color projected behind them.

Jason EC

01-19-04, 04:13 PM

JayJervey

01-19-04, 05:00 PM

I believe you need a 480i signal active on the video input in order to set auto movie mode. Turn on your DVD player and switch to its video input and the menu option should become enabled.

-- Jay

cracka

01-19-04, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Jason EC
Why is my auto movie mode menu grayed out and off all the time? I use input 1 for a prog DVD, and Antenna C.
From the user manual:

1. When using Progressive Scan Component or DVI-HDTV input (Ex. 480p, 720p, 1080i), Auto Movie Mode will not be
available (grayed out).
2. When in ANT C, Auto Movie Mode will not be available (grayed out).

LazyBoy1

01-19-04, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by BKC
My 51S500 turned off and on again by itself while watching some football the other day.

...

Marc or anyone else, have any clue what's going on?

Take this as an anecdote, not an analysis: My old TV (12 yr old, 52" RCA) did this several times until it went off one day and wouldn't come back on. That's why I bought the 57s700 recently.

LB

waltj2k

01-19-04, 10:37 PM

Originally posted by Paul Clancy
On the s/t/x models go to the 2nd page of the Video settings (scroll down) and turn auto movie mode ON (it's off by default). That turns on 3:2 pulldown correction and makes a huge difference. Also turn off edge enhancement, auto color and black enhancement.

OK I have made these changes and I watched a few scenes from the Matrix. What I really notice are lines of resolution. An example is when Neo is talking to Smith in the park you can see jagged edges on their glasses not smooth curves. I guess the Pioneer 333 wont be long for my system.

I will have to hold off a little while to see what new players come out or catch something decent at an awesome price.

rman65

01-19-04, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by BKC
My 51S500 turned off and on again by itself while watching some football the other day.

Marc Alexander told me to set the video 2 input remote control to off and I did that, but it still turned on and off by itself in the span of say 1.5 seconds. Second time this has happened in the two months I've owned the TV.

Marc or anyone else, have any clue what's going on?

Must be a virus (I read it on the Internet, it must be true!!!). Ex-wife's perspectives aside -and seriously though:

I read your post when I got back from the George Carlin show here an hour ago, and, lo and behold, at 10:40est, while watching CSI on CBS-Detroit-HD, my 57S500 took a catnap for about a second, then came back to life. There was an audible click both on departure and return when she (it?) shut off and came back on again.

First time this has happened in the 5+ weeks I've had the set!

I doubt it's George or the x's doing, so I have a tech coming in (from a different local Hitachi approved service co.), to address some other issues - will put the q. to him and post whatever I find out.

r.

BKC

01-20-04, 11:00 AM

Must be a virus (I read it on the Internet, it must be true!!!). Ex-wife's perspectives aside -and seriously though:
That's pretty weird, man. Definitely keep us in the loop as to what's going on. I wonder if Marc Alexander has anything more to say about this...

msegal

01-20-04, 01:18 PM

injaneer

01-20-04, 03:19 PM

Has all of these that turned on and off been 500's or has there been any 700's. Maybe they need a FAN... Since most people are getting rid of the 700's because of the fan. I doubt it since the fan is used in the Digital Tuner that is not used on the 500's.. But it would interesting.

Chris

jsaliga

01-20-04, 03:49 PM

Wow, what a thread!

I'm currently shopping for a CRT RPTV, at either 57 or 65 inches in screen size. I've seen both the 57 and 65 S500 on two seperate occasions at two different stores.

I haven't seen this discussed anywhere, but what concerns me is that I found the HDTV picture soft and artifact ridden (lots of stairstep artifacts in 1080i source material). The HD picture was not nearly as well-resolved as it was on the Sony and Panasonic sets that straddled it. Fine details just didn't seem to be there.

I'm not bringing this up to incite owners, and I am more than well aware that sets on the showroom floor are not going to look their best. But having said that, it seems implausible to me that this is just random chance that two sets of the same model in two different stores would consistently look inferior where resolution and fine detail are concerned when compared to other sets with factory setups that aren't optimized either. I did a manual convergence both times just to tighten the picture a bit, and adjusted contrast down because every set on the floor was running beyond the point of blooming.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed this or not, but the reason I am asking is that I am interested in one of these sets, mainly because either will be easier to get into the room where it will go because the cabinet seperates. But what I am seeing is of great concern to me.

This set is going into the family room as a regular watcher, but I do want the best HDTV picture I can get at the price point these sets are selling for.

I would appreciate comments and analysis from anyone experienced with these Hitachi sets and how their HDTV picture compares to competing models. Techs and calibrators jump in if you please.

Thanks.

--Jerome

Jason EC

01-20-04, 03:58 PM

jsaliga, go to the store again and adjust the sharpness and "Edge Enhancement" (aka SVM) on the Hitachi. It's possible that EE is off on the Hitachi, and overly aggressive on the other two, which is not good but makes a picture look sharper. Both adjustments are in the main user menu under "video".

jsaliga

01-20-04, 04:04 PM

Hi Jason,

The sharpness is less of a concern for me (I turned off SVM) than the poorly resolved image.

I probably should have said that I adjusted all of these sets (the Panny, the Sony, and the Hitachi). All three were hot and needed to be toned down. I turned down the sharpness, did a manual convergence, and otherwise cleaned things up as best I could.

I'm just having a hard time reconciling the notable difference in image detail. It was a pretty considerable difference.

--Jerome

DumbLuck

01-20-04, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by msegal
I just replaced by 51S700 with a 51S500 because the fan on the 51S700 was driving me a crazy. When I was calibrating the new 51S500 with DVE, my TV also made a lound pop noise and turned off and back on. I had a very bright reference image up and I thought that the TV might have some kind of protection circuit to prevent burn in. It hasn't happened again, but I've only had the TV for a few days. I would be interested to hear if anyone else has had this problem and what people think may be causing it.

Is the fan noise limited to just the s700 series? or does the s500 exhibit this as well?

Marc Alexander

01-20-04, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by BKC
My 51S500 turned off and on again by itself while watching some football the other day.

Marc Alexander told me to set the video 2 input remote control to off and I did that, but it still turned on and off by itself in the span of say 1.5 seconds. Second time this has happened in the two months I've owned the TV.

Marc or anyone else, have any clue what's going on? If input 2 auto link is disabled, I only have two other theories.

1. Something is wrong with the TV

2. The blinks could be power related. RPTVs are very high current devices. The other day, Tbass2k's S500 lost picture for a second and came back. I know the TV didn't shut off because the power light stayed on. I don't thnk there is anything really wrong with his TV...just that it went into some sort of protection mode for a second. He doesn't use any type of power conditioning.

I used to have some strange things happen to my 43FWX20b based on my AC power. I moved my Tripplite conditioner/voltage regulator from my Mits to my Hitachi and the problems went away. The quality of my AC power gets pretty poor from time to time.

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=208
DO NOT CONNECT ANY AUDIO COMPONENTS TO ONE OF THESE!!!

Do you have any power conditioning on the TV? Something with a voltmeter would be nice so you can see what is going on with your AC power.

BKC

01-20-04, 06:24 PM

Marc,

I'm not sure if it's a defective unit per se since it sounds like I'm not alone with the ghost on/off action.

Maybe I did it wrong, but I simply set the remote control to off in the input menu like you had prescribed. Maybe I did that wrong?

I'm connected through a regular surge protector.

msegal

01-20-04, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
If input 2 auto link is disabled, I only have two other theories.
. . .

How do you disable the input 2 auto link? I was using Input 2 on the TV when it went on and off. What does the input 2 auto link do? Any help would be much appreciated.

I would hate to have to get another TV after just replacing the S700 because of the fan noise.

msegal

01-20-04, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by DumbLuck
Is the fan noise limited to just the s700 series? or does the s500 exhibit this as well?

Yes, only the S700 series have fans associated with the HDTV internal tuners.

My wife thought I was crazy for exchanging the set because you could only hear it during very quiet scenes in movies and without any other room noise. I know others on this site have also complained about the noise. The S500 is perfectly silent.

injaneer

01-20-04, 08:15 PM

Go to the menu. chose setup and then chose setup the inputs. then slect video 2 and turn off the auto link.

chris

DumbLuck

01-20-04, 09:04 PM

I noticed on c-net reviews, they had an issue with DVDs and 480p playback. Any comments? workarounds other than using 480i?

http: //shopper.cnet.com/Hitachi_57S500/4505-6484_7-30521418-4.html?tag=review

injaneer

01-20-04, 09:28 PM

c-net just has issues. No issue here .. 480p form my DVD looks great..

chris

jsaliga

01-20-04, 09:36 PM

Hmmm...I was hoping others would comment on my observations about the HDTV picture from these sets. I saw a third one tonight sitting right between a Hitachi 57XWX20B and Sony KDP-57WS550. Same result. The XWX and Sony showed excellent image detail, and 57S500 lacked detail, appeared very soft, and showed stairstepping artifacts.

Is this set doing some processing on 1080i signals? It's hard to imagine that these sets are so misadjusted from the factory if were going to try to write this off as poor focus, so I don't think my observations are baseless. SVM and sharpness settings even if way off cannot account for how fine detail is crushed on these units. I've seen a few people posting similar observations on HTS.

NOTE: I've read that Cnet review and it's hard to reconcile what I am seeing with the glowing appraisal of HD image detail they describe.

--Jerome

eejimen

01-20-04, 11:21 PM

Ok, well after much difficutly I have finally have my 57S500. I noticed something weird when going through the ISF Menu and writing down its defaults. F-STD, Noise and Hsysnc-M values are fluctuating. Has anyone else seen this and should I be worried?

Paul Clancy

01-21-04, 07:51 AM

A couple of posts I'd like to address. First the power cycle issue has been discussed by owners elsewhere at length and concluded it's a breakin issue with the tubes ...not desrtuctive and does stop after several months use. It happened to me twice and never again. Some values in the service menu do fluctuate to reflect signal processing. I can't comment on lack of hd detail but this is the first remark I've read about it. Never seen it written about in reviews or by calibrators and would find it quite shocking if the Sonys could resolve more than the hitachis. I'll be finding out when I get my sat box. The auto movie mode greatly affects stair stepping on dvd source but unsure about hd. I wonder if the defocused blue gun may be the culprit as the hitachi may ship with it softer than others. I've owned a Sony and the dvd source on my hitachi is more detailed with the same player ....but again thats not hd. Processing I have found in the service menus seems to be bypassed on 1080i source. This well may be a focus issue. Final setup with all sets seems to get sloppy as they get popular and the overseers crank up the line speed to meet demand ...but thats another story.

Mack2003

01-21-04, 08:16 AM

For the challenged, like myself, finally figured out how to get laptop on the big screen.

15' S Video cord insert in front of TV and into puter.

Hitachi s700 Menu>Setup>12 steps down to Set Monitor>click on Monitor.

Now TO computer.

98se>Control Panel>Display>Settings>Advance>Note running an ATI card in laptop and going into display settings and click on Telivision which is now enabled because svideo cord in in place.

Back to TV, click on video 5 and now you should see puter screen on TV.

I have just run Irfanview (freeware) for slide show and enlarge screen and they seem to look fine.

BKC

01-21-04, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Paul Clancy
A couple of posts I'd like to address. First the power cycle issue has been discussed by owners elsewhere at length and concluded it's a breakin issue with the tubes ...not desrtuctive and does stop after several months use. It happened to me twice and never again.
I'm on a Honda S2000 board as well and have owned the car for a while so I guess I'm considered a "veteran" and often field "novice" questions like the ones I've asked in this thread...

So many thanks for your patience and expertise. Especially to Marc Alexander, Paul Clancy, and Mfusik.

I'll just keep using the TV and not worry about it.

Cheers,
Ben

Paul Clancy

01-21-04, 11:02 AM

Most welcome and keep em comin. I had another thought about the lack of detail issue. What jsaliga may be seeing is that the hitachis sharpness control seems to be properly set at about 40-45 according to test patterns and will blur the picture when lowered or add noise above that. On the Sony and Tosh models the setting is much lower. This was true in last years swx as well. Just some possible causes. I was looking at last crusade this am and marvelling at the detail on the transfer ....source plays such a huge part in everything.

jsaliga

01-21-04, 11:35 AM

Hi Paul,

I appreciate your comments. I did tinker with the settings during each of the three visits (to different stores). I'm not a newbie either, and know my way around CRT sets (having owned a number of RP and FP CRT displays). I really can't say that turning off SVM and running the sharpness control though it's range had any appreciable impact on perceived image detail, though it did on edge ringing.

I do know that if people from Hitachi saw how these sets look compared to competing models on the sales floor they would be mortified. Or maybe they wouldn't even notice. I don't know.

The reason I am asking these questions is because I want to give these sets a fair chance. I'd hate to pass up a good set because of shoddy factory settings. On the other hand, I would rather steer clear if I can't improve it at least a little bit in the store. So the bottom line is that I need some evidence that the image detail on HD sources can get a lot better than I am seeing. So far I haven't found any user mode settings that have an impact. You owners know these sets better than I do, which is why I posted here.

I'm pretty much brand agnostic, and in the end I don't much care what brand I buy. I'm guided largely by the quality of the HD image.

--Jerome

muzz

01-21-04, 02:08 PM

Well I got the 57S700, and it was a piece of cake to take it apart, get it downstairs and set it back up.
I ran standard cable(ordered digital, but won't be installed till later this month)) into inputs B and C ( through a splitter), C gives me a few movie channels, 3 pRon channels and INHD ( DIG cable already setup but no box?), thru input B I get all the regular SD channels.
I must say I hooked up a piece of wire to C and I got a few HD OTA channels, which included the Patriots game on Sunday......
WOW!! I couldn't believe how clear the picture was, it really was impressive, so I hooked up an old set of rabbit ears(hung from the ceiling) and got even more. I was happily surprised that I got so many channels so easily in a basement.
I do NOT hear any fan noise from the tuner.
I have watched Nemo, 5th element(SB), The Matrix, SPR ( yes I saw the flames reaching up high as has been discussed) through my 563A,I have done user adjustments only to this point, but I must say I am already impressed.
I do have a slight red push, but nothing too objectionable, and will get to that later.

To think that this thing will get 20-40% better is mind boggling.
I was a bit concerned about 57" being too big at 8', but I have no problem with it at all, and am now glad I had to get the bigger model.

I AM very happy....:D

Rob_Z

01-21-04, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by jsaliga
Hi Paul,

I appreciate your comments. I did tinker with the settings during each of the three visits (to different stores). I'm not a newbie either, and know my way around CRT sets (having owned a number of RP and FP CRT displays). I really can't say that turning off SVM and running the sharpness control though it's range had any appreciable impact on perceived image detail, though it did on edge ringing.

I do know that if people from Hitachi saw how these sets look compared to competing models on the sales floor they would be mortified. Or maybe they wouldn't even notice. I don't know.

The reason I am asking these questions is because I want to give these sets a fair chance. I'd hate to pass up a good set because of shoddy factory settings. On the other hand, I would rather steer clear if I can't improve it at least a little bit in the store. So the bottom line is that I need some evidence that the image detail on HD sources can get a lot better than I am seeing. So far I haven't found any user mode settings that have an impact. You owners know these sets better than I do, which is why I posted here.

I'm pretty much brand agnostic, and in the end I don't much care what brand I buy. I'm guided largely by the quality of the HD image.

--Jerome

I have the 57S700 and different feeds looks different.

I put the Prez on for the state of the union speech, I wanted to see if it was in HD. Channel 15, ABC , OTA, didn't look good at all, but NBC looked fantastic. When the camera had a shot of the entire room, I could pretty much see all the faces clearly. Also channel 5, CBS, football looks perfect. I think this TV looks best with a 1080i input, 720P doesn't do it justice, because it then converts it to 540P or 1080i.

My suggestion is to go a watch on of these sitcoms on NBC and I think you'll be satisfied.

Also, another thing that looks better is putting the Cox cable directly into the TV, when I go through my Cable HD box, the SD doesn't look as good, even with S-video or component.

eejimen

01-21-04, 03:43 PM

Some values in the service menu do fluctuate to reflect signal processing.

Paul - I hope you were answering my question. If not maybe Mfusik or Mark Alexander can chime in.b

injaneer

01-21-04, 04:00 PM

eejimen,

Yes some of those values seem to be readings and not something you can set. I would not worry about it. I have a few that fluctuate also.

chris

Jason EC

01-21-04, 06:30 PM

jsaliga,

That's strange, before I bought my 57S700 I compared it to Sony, Mitsu, Hitachi CRT RPTVs that were beside it, and a Sammy HLN DLP, all with the same HD feed. I thought the sharpness was very similar, with the edge to the DLP. The colors however, were most natural on the Hitachi. IIRC, the Mitsu seemed to have a lot more video noise, the Toshiba had the most flaws (ringing etc) and the Sony had the worst color (after I adjusted them all). The reviews on the set on this board, and the level of adjustability in the user menu, are what made me decide on the Hitachi.

Marc Alexander

01-21-04, 06:50 PM

jsaliga,

As I'm sure you are aware, take showroom performance with a grain of salt. The 57S500 is capable of as good or probably better picture than the showroom XWX you saw. The bottom line is you never know what you will get out of the box so either be ready to do some tweaking or pony up for professional calibration. Both the 65S500 and 65S700 at my local CC are some of the worst looking displays I have ever seen. And their 51F500 is one of their best. Does that mean the F500 is better than the S500? Hell no. I know that once I get through tweaking, the S500 will blow the F500 out of the water. Buy with confidence, just know what you are getting into. You can always return a CC or Sears set within 30 days if you are not satisfied.

If you just want to unbox it and watch...go for a Direct View Sony 34XBR910 or a DLP or LCD set.

Gunner For Hire

01-21-04, 10:13 PM

Is there a specific order I should tweak my 57s500? I am also looking for the service manual? Is there a downloadable version? Any help would be appreciated and yes I have searched and read the tweaking posts... Just looking for any last minute advice.

Thanks,

jsaliga

01-21-04, 10:39 PM

Guys,

I really appreciate the input, honestly. But there's a few things you should know. I'm not a piker. I've owned several CRT front projectors: a NEC XG110 (dialed-in and tuned by Chuck Williams), a NEC XG110LC (had Kevin Dulieu help with the focus and astigmation on that one), and a Barco 1209s (9" EM focus tubes that I set up myself). I currently own a Sharp Z10000 HD2 DLP projector for my theater, and my daily watcher is a Sony KV-34XBR910. I've gotten pretty proficient with the NEC XG projectors, and they are very difficult to get right.

I mention these displays because I know what a good HDTV source should look like on a high performance system in terms of image detail and color space. I watched HDTV at 1080p on the Barco scaled through a HTPC. I've watched hundreds of hours of HDTV, which represents about 95% of my viewing. The rest is occasional DVDs. This is not meant to boast, but only to show that I have some experience with this stuff and understand how a CRT display works.

The family room set is an old Toshiba 60" 4:3 set that is getting long in the tooth, and the time has come to replace it. I plan to add a HDTV satellite receiver to that room so the wife and kids can enjoy it when I'm not around. But any set that I get for them has got to pass my personal HDTV sniff test. That's not an issue I expected to crop up, because frankly most of these sets, regardless of brand have 7" tubes and are pretty close in resolution performance.

Which brings me to the Hitachi. I am trying to understand why the "S" series sets out of the box are uniformly soft and lack detail with 1080i sources. I saw a fourth set tonight at yet a another store, so I am way past the notion that this is some sort of fluke or mere random chance. Every set I have seen at four different locations looked pretty much the same. So the question I have is why, and I was hoping to get specifics from some owners. For instance, if buyers were posting that the focus was way out of whack from the factory and after they dialed it in with the trim pots it brought the image more into line with their expectations then that's one thing. But it's quite another to say you tweaked the set and HDTV looks great. I have no idea what your point of reference is. Does it look great relative to what it looked like out of the box, compared to what you saw in the store, or compared to other brands, or relative to DVD? When you say it looks great what are you looking for? Right now I am looking at image detail. Here's an example of the differences I am seeing: in once movie scene there is an actor standing in the high foreground. On the Hitachi his five o'clock shadow looked like a gray blurr, and on the other sets you could clearly see the hair stubble. This is what concerns me. I asked a question earlier that went unanswered: does this set perform some sort of video processing on 1080i signals? I don't know that it does or does not. I suspect that it does, because why else would I see stairstepping artifacts on 1080i source content (please accept it as fact when I say it isn't in the source)?

And before I become misunderstood, I am not trying to suggest that people who have this set and are happy should now not be happy or start second guessing themselves. Nor am I suggesting these are bad sets or that people who bought them made a bad decision. If you own a Hitachi "S" series set and are happy, please, by all means, stay happy with it and don't let my concerns intrude upon your satisfaction. I could care less about what the grayscale is like out of the box, since I can correct that myself. Frankly, if the GS is a bit non-linear after calibration at low IRE I don't care about that either, because no one who will be regularly watching the set is discriminating enough to notice or care. Detail is another matter. If the tubes in this set under perform or the screen is causing a loss of resolution then I can't correct that. If it's inherent in the design then no amount of tweaking is going to make it better. And that is what I am attempting to learn. If its inherent there's no point in wasting time having one delivered because back it will go. This makes me wish I had a HDTV test pattern generator, because I would love to run a HD resolution wedge pattern on that Hitachi after focus is done.

This isn't a life or death question. There are plenty other makes and models to choose from. But I am trying to understand what I am seeing. I didn't want to rule out the Hitachi on that alone if this could be explained. I'd like to know if some of you have noticed it, and how it was remedied. I really don't require a satisfactory explanation, but if one of you have it then I would love to hear it (please be as specific as possible). Truth be told, even "I don't know" is a good answer, especially if you don't know.

Thanks.

--Jerome

PS: Feel free to call me Jerome.

McTNN

01-22-04, 02:56 AM

Jerome, I just read the tail end of this thread and thought I could offer something. In the past two months, I have had my hands on two Hitachi 46F500's. Each were brand new Sears stock, one built Sept 03 and the other Nov 03. Both televisions were manufactured at the same plant in Mexico so one could assume that we are comparing apples to apples. Well, maybe not. Fresh out of the box, set #1 had terrific color, poor green focus and some evidence of rough handling, perhaps by the delivery people. Right away, I opened up the back of the TV and focused the green gun, noted the lens striping on the red gun, cleaned what appeared to be a fingerprint off the mirror and never felt the need to do anything in the service menu. End result was a super sharp picture.

Upon unpacking set #2, I immediately noticed that the greys appeared much warmer
than on the previous TV. Brightness had to be boosted to 55 as opposed to 45 to get the same amount of shadow detail. Some scenes had a distinct red push. And there was a disturbing lack of focus, this time the reds and to a lesser extent blues. Slept on it overnight, did a manual focus the next morning and got it nice and sharp. What struck me as odd however was the lens striping on the red gun. Part of the tape was placed in a haphazard fashion to the rim of the lens and the end result was that it extended only 2/3 of the way across the glass surface. Initial guess was that it was causing the red push. Mirror looked
clean yet inside of speaker panel had evidence of oily fingerprints. This set needed some major tweaking in the service menu to get it right. Drives, cuts, decoder, and VSM. Finally got it all sorted out without bringing in an ISF guy but geez, are these sets calibrated at all at the factory level?

Monstermile

01-22-04, 08:42 AM

I need to stop reading these threads. Now I am second guessing my decision to buy the Hitachi 57S500. Mitsubishi was my second choice but after reading a few threads on here I have my doubts on them too. I never thought buying a TV could be so difficult.

Paul Clancy

01-22-04, 08:59 AM

Final setup is all over the map. I've seen stellar oob samples and poor ones as well. As marc mentioned the final result after focus (manual and electronic) is what shows the set the best. My feeling is hitachi reserves the best final setup for it's more expensive (x series) sets. This is what you're really paying for with these sets. There is no design flaw to explain the lack of detail. If that were the case these sets wouldn't be as well reviewed or as highly spoken of by calibrators. One whos very well regarded , Eliab, gave the s series very high priase after a calibration. There is no flaw a calibrator or educated user can't rectify easily.

PolkThug

01-22-04, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by DumbLuck
I noticed on c-net reviews, they had an issue with DVDs and 480p playback. Any comments? workarounds other than using 480i?

http: //shopper.cnet.com/Hitachi_57S500/4505-6484_7-30521418-4.html?tag=review

This TV may have the best HD output I've seen for an RPTV, but this TV also does not do a good job with 480 sources (I or P). Just look at the fleshtones in the Matrix Reloaded love scene, and you'll see what I mean. Especially right before they get busy, look at Neo's neck and you'll see some nasty effects. (Call it 'blockiness'/'pastel effect'/whatever)

I happen to own 2 Hitachi big screens, a 2003 57S700 and a 1999 53SBX59B (non-HD). The old TV does not have this problem when running through the same DVD player (panny S35 or pio 563a).

I suspect the problem has to do with poor upconversion to the TV's native resolutions (540p or 1080i). I am really hoping Hitachi will have a flash upgrade to fix this.

The only other solution I can think of is a DVD player with a DVI out in 1080i mode, that way the TV's lackluster 480 upconverter will be bypassed.

Is anybody out there who has had a regular DVD player hooked up, seen the bad effects, then upgraded to a DVD player with DVI out, and seen an improvement?

Thanks and regards,
PolkThug

BKC

01-22-04, 10:33 AM

Originally posted by Monstermile
I need to stop reading these threads. Now I am second guessing my decision to buy the Hitachi 57S500. Mitsubishi was my second choice but after reading a few threads on here I have my doubts on them too. I never thought buying a TV could be so difficult.
I recently picked up my Hitachi S TV and have been lurking around this forum and it seems to me, more often than not, a lot of these guys get fun value out of examining the quality of the image they see on screen more so than the entertainment itself!

I prefer not to get to get to that point and let these guys figure it out so I can pick up the pieces that I want to pick up.

Fear not, do the basics, sit back, and enjoy!

Marc Alexander

01-22-04, 12:21 PM

jsaliga

01-22-04, 12:24 PM

Ok, it seems to me that the concenus is that the Hitachi "S" series has probably the worst factory setup OOB of any set out there, which would mesh pretty well with the observations I have made. I've done more research on this topic elsewhere (HTS and other forums) and that essentially seems to be the gist of what I am reading. Which is all ok as far as I'm concerned, since I am not worried about dealing with setup issues.

Just so some of you understand why I am keeping after the Hitachi option...I have an $800 store credit from CC for a purchase they graciously took back after 30 days (it was closer to 60), and I was more than happy to get that store credit since I did not expect them to do anything. So, I would like to get a set from CC so I can apply that credit to the purchase. Also, the CC store I shop at regularly for other stuff has been pretty good to me over time, and I'd like to reward their great customer service with a purchase. But make no mistake about it, if couldn't find a choice there that I found acceptable, store credit or no, I would go elsewhere.

Also, since the Hitachi cabinet will seperate, I have the option of either the 57" or the 65" set. If I get a one piece cabinet set then I can go no bigger than 57" due to maneuvering contraints in getting the set into the room it will occupy.

Moreover, I'm not at all concerned about being stuck with a set I'm unhappy with. CC would take it back in heartbeat so I have no worries there. However, I don't want to go through the hassle of moving a set that I had lingering concerns about in and out of the house since that would be a royal pain.

So I'm going to take the rest of the day today and tonight to settle on the screen size and then I'll hit CC tomorrow and seal the deal and schedule delivery. It will be either a 57S500 or a 65S500.

I appreciate all the commentary.

--Jerome

The Void

01-22-04, 01:51 PM

I think most RPTV's performance will vary greatly out of the box. It's amazing how big a difference a few tweaks will have on a S500/S700. My 51S700 was delivered Dec. 27th, so I've almost had it a month. Out of the box it was impressive but I knew that it could be better. I've never owned a RPTV or known many people who have. I learned alot about them on the net over the past few years but never had any hands on experience with them.

For the past two months I've been reading everything I can about how I can improve my new TV. At first I just used the set and let it get 100 or so hours on it. This week I finally dove in and started tweaking my set. I started with an electrostatic focus and followed it with a manual focus, then I went back and forth to be sure both were optimal. All I can say is wow, the focus made a huge difference and it wasn't even off by much. It took awhile to tell exactly where the best focus point was but I figured it out. I've watched a few DVDs I've been using as comparisons and the picture is much sharper and three dimensional. The picture looks great now but it should get even better because my convergence is far off right now, mainly the blue. I didn't spend much time on the convergence yet because the next step is to get my geometry perfect with a template and then finish the convergence, I plan on doing that tonight.

I've also done some ISF menu tweaking and there are still a few things in there I want to try. Then I'll move on to dial in the color decoder just right and maybe tweak the greyscale. This TV is starting to look better than any I've ever seen. I think heavy tweaking or ISF calibration is a must on any CRT RPTV set if you care about the image quality.

PolkThug

01-22-04, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Search the forum for Hitachi pastel or solarization as you may have an issue with your TV. I have not noticed anything out of the ordinary on Reloaded with the 57S500 and a Panasonic XP30.

I wish they still made the XP30! Marc, could you do me a huge favor and revisit that scene, I think its chapter nine, and tell me if you see any of what I'm talking about.

Thanks,
Toby aka PolkThug

muzz

01-22-04, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by PolkThug
This TV may have the best HD output I've seen for an RPTV, but this TV also does not do a good job with 480 sources (I or P). Just look at the fleshtones in the Matrix Reloaded love scene, and you'll see what I mean. Especially right before they get busy, look at Neo's neck and you'll see some nasty effects. (Call it 'blockiness'/'pastel effect'/whatever)

I happen to own 2 Hitachi big screens, a 2003 57S700 and a 1999 53SBX59B (non-HD). The old TV does not have this problem when running through the same DVD player (panny S35 or pio 563a).

I
Thanks and regards,
PolkThug

I got a new 57S700 Sat. 1-17-04, AND I use the Pio 563a(which is also brand new), my MR is also a brand new DVD.
I looked at the exact scene you describe above and the picture that I see is excellent on my S700, nothing at all wrong with it, and I looked 3 times for it, even pausing a few times on the 3rd passthrough.
I have done nothing to this set but user settings and Colorgo-01 for reds.
I am feeding it into component1 with brand new AR component cables, and I am watching it in standard 16x9.

Edit: BTW the 563A is in Prog. mode

I hope you get to the bottom of your issue.

Vin

01-22-04, 05:01 PM

Originally posted by Marc Alexander
jsaliga,

As I'm sure you are aware, take showroom performance with a grain of salt. The 57S500 is capable of as good or probably better picture than the showroom XWX you saw. The bottom line is you never know what you will get out of the box so either be ready to do some tweaking or pony up for professional calibration. Both the 65S500 and 65S700 at my local CC are some of the worst looking displays I have ever seen. And their 51F500 is one of their best. Does that mean the F500 is better than the S500? Hell no. I know that once I get through tweaking, the S500 will blow the F500 out of the water.

Marc, I've also been considering an Hitachi S series, in part, due to all the great things I've read about it. During a recent visit to my local CC I was absolutely awed by the 57F that was displayed.....I wasn't, however, that impressed with the 65S. I attributed the difference in PQ to:

1) a difference in set-up between the two sets (I didn't make any adjustments to either one) or,

2) the difference in size, which I found disturbing because I really want the larger screen size.....this set will be replacing a 60" analog set and I have the room for it. Like Jerome though, getting one of these into my basement will require the two piece design that these sets offer (the 60" one piece 4:3 set barely made it down there).

Anwyay, after reading your comments here I felt a bit relieved that the difference I was seeing may not have been due to the larger size after all but more to do with the difference between the way the F and the S look out of the box and displayed in-store.

Am I interpreting what you said correctly, in that you believe a properly set-up 65S could look as good as the 57F that I was so impressed with at CC?

Thanks,
Vin

rman65

01-22-04, 06:30 PM

Having researched HDTV's for over 3 months prior to taking the plunge last month (at a much higher price point and size than I started at), I would have to agree with Paul that there are "no design flaw"s in the Hitachi S series.

For clarity however, I think Paul's statement that "There is no flaw a calibrator or educated user can't rectify easily" should have included the word "design".

From what I've seen, the problem is quality control, either at the manufacturing level and/or perhaps in the distribution channel. My set should never have made it to me in the state it did (Geometry way off, warped screen and bezel, greens in blacks, etc.). Quality of post-sales service has also been an issue.

I still believe in the product though, because I have seen what it is capable of. My replacement 57S500 should be coming soon - will share the experience.

r.

Originally posted by Paul Clancy
Final setup is all over the map. I've seen stellar oob samples and poor ones as well. As marc mentioned the final result after focus (manual and electronic) is what shows the set the best. My feeling is hitachi reserves the best final setup for it's more expensive (x series) sets. This is what you're really paying for with these sets. There is no design flaw to explain the lack of detail. If that were the case these sets wouldn't be as well reviewed or as highly spoken of by calibrators. One whos very well regarded , Eliab, gave the s series very high priase after a calibration. There is no flaw a calibrator or educated user can't rectify easily.

Marc Alexander

01-22-04, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by Vin
Am I interpreting what you said correctly, in that you believe a properly set-up 65S could look as good as the 57F that I was so impressed with at CC? YES...better!

Gunner For Hire

01-22-04, 09:56 PM

Originally posted by PolkThug
I wish they still made the XP30! Marc, could you do me a huge favor and revisit that scene, I think its chapter nine, and tell me if you see any of what I'm talking about.

Thanks,
Toby aka PolkThug

I had a Sony DVP-NC665P that I test drove for a couple of weeks while I waited on my "New" Denon 1600 to arrive. I saw no problems (specifically the ones you noted) on Reloaded... Really didn't see any problems on any of my discs... No problems yet with the Denon. Maybe your Reloaded disk is whacked or something. Just thought I would let ya know to look for a simple problem 1st.

PolkThug

01-22-04, 11:19 PM

Thanks guys for checking that scene for me. I must have a configuration issue or something.

This is basically what I am seeing (forgive the awful camera work, but it still gets the point across).

http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsdata/542...38-neoneck2.jpg

Jason EC

01-23-04, 12:17 AM

Linky no worky.

BKC

01-23-04, 01:20 AM

ahh yet another question about my 51S500...

i've had my TV for about 2-3 months now. i don't use it much because i am out of town 4-5 days out of the week and of those days that i'm home, i don't spend too much time in front of the TV. i'm not sure how many hours i've had it on.

so far, 3-4 times i've turned on the TV it's given me this staticky image with the pssshhh noise you get. it occurs when the TV is turned on first thing in the morning and most recently, just a minute ago when i turned on the TV after not having it turned on for about 4 days.

so i'm thinking my TV is still breaking in, but wondering if anyone else has had this staticky image, noise issue. just now while it was staticky, i switched from various inputs from SD to DVD to XBOX and it was all the same so it wasn't the cable TV signal or anything like that.

the staticky thing lasts for no more than 8 seconds or so. so it's pretty brief. and what i mean by staticky is that you see the image and get a part of the sound.. but image is marred by horizontal lines and sound is pssh.. pssh... etc.

anyone have any clue what's up? should i get this checked out or just leave it alone and hope that it goes away? it's a somewhat of a rare occurance but not that rare since i don't use my tv all that much.

many thx,
ben

Paul Clancy

01-23-04, 08:11 AM

Rman65,
My statement should have been "There is no setup flaw a calibrator or educated user cannot rectify". A design flaw is something that cannot be tweaked out. The hitachi does have one design flaw I know of that involves lowering overscan and a resulting left side squish-convergence error. It's minor and can be overcome on most sets with factory overscan settings....but I think a set this new should allow lower than 5%. No set is perfect and this is a minor flaw in the overall package. QC is a big issue with all rptv makers now that price points are shrinking. This is definately why the manufacturers want to move to a tech like lcd...less setup tweaking and fewer service calls about convergence , focus etc.. The hitachi s/t/x is a tweakers delight. Even newbies have good access with the user menus. When you include all the service menu tweaks to improve things like gamma (not accessible on many other brands) its awesome.
To Vin...DON'T get the F...the s has better guns/lens assembly, newer scaler 4:3 stretch, day night mode and many others that make it a better value.

Vin

01-23-04, 09:07 AM

Marc and Paul, thanks for the feedback......one more question for you guys and others.

If the price was the same for the 65S500 and 65S700, is there any reason why you would not recommend the S700? I've been reading how some have actually gotten the S700 for less than the S500 recently with the price match from CC and rebate from Sears....unfortunately, the S700 is no longer being offered at CC.

Being that I apparently missed the boat on this one I'm now leaning towards the S500 and the $99 HD setup offer from D* but I'd still like to get your opinions on this...... if a similar deal could be had, is there a reason why I should avoid the S700?

Thanks again,
Vin

bigrig

01-23-04, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by Vin
if a similar deal could be had, is there a reason why I should avoid the S700?

Fan noise...

As soon as I get the HD DirecTivo box, I'm gonna try to take that thing out of my 51S700.

Matt

willi

01-23-04, 11:31 AM

Did CC give a reason why the s700 is no longer offered?

I'm thinking that having the IEEE ports is a handy feature since all the cable and D* boxes are going to have them. Am I thinking wrong?

DumbLuck

01-23-04, 12:20 PM

Originally posted by willi
Did CC give a reason why the s700 is no longer offered?

I'm thinking that having the IEEE ports is a handy feature since all the cable and D* boxes are going to have them. Am I thinking wrong?

The firewire port (IEEE-1394) is primarily there to output an MPEG stream from the tuner for recording to digital recorders (D-VHS or similar). The separate OTA/Cable/Satellite STBs (set top box) may have this port as well - although I think the Direct and Dish offerings have theirs disabled in firmware (probably until the copyright issues get sorted out). AFAIK, none of the current crop of HDTV Monitors (s500 included) have this port as they do not process MPEG.

CC still has the s700 in their database, just QTY=0 and unwilling to backorder. Sears also lists the s700, I dont know if they stock em, either.

It seems to me that by pricing the s700 just a few $$$ more than the s500, that somebody (HIT or CC?) is trying to rid them.

frenchmarky

01-23-04, 12:37 PM

>>My statement should have been "There is no setup flaw a calibrator or educated user cannot rectify". A design flaw is something that cannot be tweaked out. The hitachi does have one design flaw I know of that involves lowering overscan and a resulting left side squish-convergence error. It's minor and can be overcome on most sets with factory overscan settings>>

Might be also a set-up deal and not a pure design flaw, my Mom's 57 does have a left squish slightly noticeable, but my 51 has no squish whatsoever. Or maybe is only on the larger sizes?...Frenchy

PolkThug

01-23-04, 01:23 PM

Hey marc, muzz, gunner,

I'm such a newb... My contrast was still set to 100%.. I dropped it down to the 50's and I'm a much happier person now. whew! Most of the blockiness/graininess went bye bye.

BKC

01-23-04, 01:23 PM

General question:

I got HDTV hooked up today through a box (51S500). I had Xbox and DVD hooked up through component cables.

Now with the 51S500, there are only two component video inputs. So do I have to boot one out since now the Comcast HDTV box needs a comp. input? How do you guys deal? Just switch back and forth?

Lee Heytow

01-23-04, 01:42 PM

You might either try a component switch or perphaps you have an AV Receiver that can do some switching.

I have a Denon 3803 and have 2 component devices going thru that. If I had a third, I could route it directly to the 2nd input on the 51s500 (which I also have)

DumbLuck

01-23-04, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by BKC
General question:

I got HDTV hooked up today through a box (51S500). I had Xbox and DVD hooked up through component cables.

Now with the 51S500, there are only two component video inputs. So do I have to boot one out since now the Comcast HDTV box needs a comp. input? How do you guys deal? Just switch back and forth?

I used a cheap (anything with no filtering/conditioning) A/V Composite/Audio switch to switch between DVD/XBOX on a older analog tube CRT. The image loss appeared negligible. Just match up the colors of the Component lines (RBG) and switch between them. If it doesnt work, you've wasted only around $10. :confused: Not sure if it would work with digital feeds or what adverse effects it may have on the unit, if any. Maybe someone here with a little more electronics background could comment.

The more expensive alternative would be to buy an active component video switch (probably around $100-200). Just make sure it can handle digital signalling. A quick google search brought up this: http://www.smarthome.com/7772.html (I make no recommendations towards this unit, it is simple shown as an example).

Monstermile

01-23-04, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Lee Heytow
You might either try a component switch or perphaps you have an AV Receiver that can do some switching.

I have a Denon 3803 and have 2 component devices going thru that. If I had a third, I could route it directly to the 2nd input on the 51s500 (which I also have)

That's exactly how I plan to do mine. My sat receiver is going directly into the set and XBOX and DVD through the receiver and then into the set using the component switching there. I'm running the sat in direct because that will be the one most frequently used and the other two will only be used with audio though the receiver so it will be on anyway. When regular TV is on the receiver will not be used.

Marc Alexander

01-23-04, 04:10 PM

Originally posted by Vin

If the price was the same for the 65S500 and 65S700, is there any reason why you would not recommend the S700? I've been reading how some have actually gotten the S700 for less than the S500 recently with the price match from CC and rebate from Sears....unfortunately, the S700 is no longer being offered at CC.

Being that I apparently missed the boat on this one I'm now leaning towards the S500 and the $99 HD setup offer from D* but I'd still like to get your opinions on this...... if a similar deal could be had, is there a reason why I should avoid the S700? Potential for fan noise from the internal tuner.

muzz

01-23-04, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by bigrig
Fan noise...

As soon as I get the HD DirecTivo box, I'm gonna try to take that thing out of my 51S700.

Matt

I have the 57S700 and as I have stated, I PERSONALLY have NO fan noise(Edit: If there is any I cant hear it from 8' away).
If I did I would fix it myself, as the integrated tuner is working well for me. And I only paid $50 more for it.

JMT

muzz

01-23-04, 04:37 PM

Originally posted by PolkThug
Hey marc, muzz, gunner,

I'm such a newb... My contrast was still set to 100%.. I dropped it down to the 50's and I'm a much happier person now. whew! Most of the blockiness/graininess went bye bye.

Excellent!!!
The very first thing I did when I setup the TV was turn it on and turn the contrast down to about 36 myself......
I've always adjusted my own TV's(and the contrast was always set too high), having learned from MANY hours of tweaking old broken down sets when I was a poor young'in, and fixing TV's, including installing picture tubes....
I have since gone over it with the S+V home essentials ( need Avia or DVE, and will get soonish) and I leave it around 36.

I am very happy that you figured out what was wrong with your set PT.
I am working mine in everyday, giving it as many hours of use as I can while home.

Enjoy your set!!

eejimen

01-23-04, 04:42 PM

BKC - here is another possible solution. My AV reciever does not have enough digital connections either so this will be my solution.

Audio Authority 1154

component and digital connections (http://www.digitalconnection.com/Products/Video/1154.asp)

I like the auto selection feature.

bigrig

01-23-04, 04:54 PM

Originally posted by muzz
I have the 57S700 and as I have stated, I PERSONALLY have NO fan noise (Edit: If there is any I cant hear it from 8' away).
If I did I would fix it myself, as the integrated tuner is working well for me. And I only paid $50 more for it.
JMT

Yeah, I'll live with the fan noise for real HDTV. But it is pretty noticable and annoying. Just how many rock concerts have you attended? :P

So you're saying you'd swap out the fan for a different one? I need to research that a little bit.

Matt

chrisspy

01-23-04, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by Troy
Before you guys get fired up with technical stuff, can I ask a few basic questions? I am thinking about returning a 60" Sony GWIII (LCD) due to a problem I am having (won't come on) and am reconsidering CRT, especially the Hitachis. I will use the TV in a 22'x17' greatroom with lots of windows that aren't covered and the furniture spread out. I went with LCD because I was concerned with burn in and convergence, but more importantly, wide viewing angles and fewer screen reflections. Can any of you comment on how these issues effect your Hitachi in your viewing location? I may need to make a decision quickly if Sears works with me.

Also, can you PM me any pricing information for Sears? I price matched and used a 10% off coupon plus got a discount instead of a gift card (actually all were price matchs of sorts) and free delivery from Sears an saved about eight if I remember right, bringing the orice down to just above three before taxes and EW. Please PM what you think a Hitachi S500 or S700 should go out at.

Bought my 51s700 for $1750+tax after match & rebates. IMHO, CRT still gives best affordable PQ. Consider removing screen protector to reduce reflectns, though you won't really know if it's an issue 'til installed so know your refund/exchange rights. I can control ambient light in my room & use about 100 degrees of claimed 150 viewing angle.

One of my favorite things to do is take a digital picture & put the card in the Hitachi to display on screen. I also love that I can save settings uniquely to each input & check OTA signal strength.

jsaliga

01-23-04, 05:54 PM

Guys,

For those of you who seem to be running short of component inputs, you might want to see if you can run down a Extron SW6 AR video switcher on eBay. I found one about a year ago for something like $40 and it works perfectly with DVD and HDTV component sources. It will switch up to 6 sources, but only has BNC connectors so you will need RCA to BNC adapters to use it. Extron makes top shelf stuff, mostly for the broadcast industry.

Also, if anyone is interested I went to CC today and bought a Hitachi 65S500. Actually I asked for a 57S500 because I thought it would be a shade easier to get into the room and seating distance is 11.5 feet. But the store it is being delivered from didn't have any, and I didn't want to wait. So I took the 65 incher and CC took an extra $100 off of it. It's gonna be a beast to get into the room. It will be here Sunday.

--Jerome

jpnuzzo

01-23-04, 06:08 PM

Just found this thread!

Got my 51S500 delivered 12-14... roughly $1725+tax from sears (even got my rebate checks this week!)

Won't have any HDTV signal until I upgrade my D* equipment (early spring). But I did get a Momitsu upscaling DVD player, and its picture is excellent in 1080i.

The speakers in the 51S500 only get used for my son's game consoles. Otherwise it's connected strictly as a monitor (all audio through the HT system).

Re: video switching, I let my receiver do as much as possible. Unfortunately I've still got s-video, component, composite signals to the tv.

The real limitation is the single DVI port; my HT rcvr won't switch those at all, so when I eventually get a D* HDTV rcvr, I will be forced to choose between it and my Momitsu DVD player for the DVI input.

Love the picture so far... but wish it accepted another DVI cable.

muzz

01-23-04, 08:35 PM

Originally posted by bigrig
Yeah, I'll live with the fan noise for real HDTV. But it is pretty noticable and annoying. Just how many rock concerts have you attended? :P

So you're saying you'd swap out the fan for a different one? I need to research that a little bit.

Matt
Well I played drums(Rock/Metal mostly) for 13 yrs, including playing out...... heheh

I haven't researched it( cuz I can't hear it), but if I did hear it, and it bothered me I would do something about it, either slowing it down, putting a small heatsink on the silicone causing heat, or ripping it out and somehow installing a larger quieter fan ( slower-but more volume).

Edit: Ok I wanted to see what everyone is talking about regarding noisy fans.......
I put my ear up against the speaker area( I mean RIGHT AGAINST the tv), and I could BARELY make out a REALLY faint whine....... it is so low that if I move 8 inches away from the set I can't even hear it ( I even swung my head around so I could test with each ear, and then together).
So thats how much noise mine makes......

Guess I got a decent one.

muzz

01-23-04, 08:48 PM

Have fun with your new beast Jerome.
Let us know how ya make out.

jsaliga

01-23-04, 09:30 PM

Will do. It will take some time tomorrow just to prepare the room for the arrival of the set.

--Jerome

muzz

01-23-04, 10:10 PM

It took me a few days to clean out and repaint the basement for my 57 arrival.........
And I would do it again in a heartbeat!!
I spend almost all my time when home in this area, heheh
I noticed I go to sleep about 1- 2 hrs later than I used too.:D

BKC

01-23-04, 10:57 PM

is there any quality loss going through this "switch" rather than going directly to the TV's comp connection?

Jason EC

01-24-04, 02:10 AM

jsaliga,

If you can find, and post, a JPEG of a high resolution wedge chart, 1920x1080 pixels, a bunch of us can load it onto a digital camera card and plug it into the set. I can take pictures of the resulting image.

frenchmarky

01-24-04, 02:27 AM

>>>>>I put my ear up against the speaker area( I mean RIGHT AGAINST the tv), and I could BARELY make out a REALLY faint whine....... it is so low that if I move 8 inches away from the set I can't even hear it ( I even swung my head around so I could test with each ear, and then together).
So thats how much noise mine makes...... Guess I got a decent one.>>>

On both my 51s and my moms 57s I bought her, for all intents and purposes we don't hear the fans unless I just turn the sound off completely and sit there and try to listen to it, and both these houses have hard floors so it's not being absorbed per se. I mean we just never hear 'em or think about 'em. And I have excellent hearing. Sounds like some of them have a 'whine' sound to them but these two don't. The fan in my 5.1 amplifier is MUCH louder than these tv fans...Frenchy

Jason EC

01-24-04, 02:54 AM

Well I went ahead and did it. I found a resolution chart on www.imaging-resource.com, and I scaled it down to 1620x1080 with a Lanczos filter:

http://pages.sbcglobal.net/jcuadra/HDTV/RESCHART%201080.JPG

I downloaded it into my camera's memory card, and stuck it in. I can't take a picture of the image because I only have one card (duh!).

There is a bit of overscan in my set. There is some fairly strong line twitter visible in horizontal lines at about 550 lines.

With vertical lines and the vertical wedge, there is strong detail to about 750 lines, then contrast fades and you can't really count the lines at around 825.

With horizontal lines and the horizontal wedge, some artifacts start to appear at 800 lines, but you can make out detail to a bit over 1000 lines.

FYI the test pattern is exactly one pixel wide at very close to 1080 lines.

So, is this a good result? I have done manual and electrostatic focusing on my set.

At my 9 ft viewing distance I can barely make out the 800-900 lines horizontal resolution. If I step into the next room at 13 ft, I can just see about 500 lines (~DVD resolution). So I guess 57" is just the right size.:cool:

jsaliga

01-24-04, 06:50 AM

Hi Jason,

Hmmm...that's an interesting idea. Your test pattern is a progressive image, so keep in mind the set is doing some scaling as well.

I've actually given this a great deal of thought ever since I first viewed the Hitachi "S" series and noted the soft HDTV picture. I have both a JVC 30K and 40K D-VHS D-Theater high definition VCR, and I decided to order Joe Kane's Digital Video Essentials for the D-Theater HDTV format in 1080i. The tape is also available in 720p.

Also, different sets seem to respond differently to test patterns. For instance, I used to own a Toshiba 50HX81 and that particular set failed to resolve the 6.75MHz signal in a multiburst test pattern from the Avia DVD. It's hard to describe what it looked like, but there were not distinct alternating lines. However, that never seemed to affect how DVD and HDTV looked in terms of fine image detail. The set had a few other shortcomings (they all do), but resolution didn't seem to be one of them.

Another thing to keep in mind is that on CRT displays resolution and by extension image detail can be seriously degraded by running the display at relatively high contrast. The reason this happens is because as you raise contrast, or white level, what you are increasing is the beam current in the tubes. As you increase the beam current there will be a point where the electron gun can no longer maintain beam focus and shape. Once you reach the point of blooming, depending on how good the power supplies in the display are, you may begin to notice slight distortions on a cross-hatch pattern. I showed this to another shopper at CC when I was checking out the Hitachi sets and they were flabberghasted by how much more resolved image detail there was in the picture when I ran the contrast control down to about 45. Of course, under those flourescent lights on the showroom floor the picture looked unacceptably dim. Even the salesperson standing by watching this mini-tutorial seemed very surprised by the results. But this is another reason I prefer to watch CRT displays in a light controlled room.

--Jerome

Monstermile

01-24-04, 08:59 AM

Originally posted by BKC
is there any quality loss going through this "switch" rather than going directly to the TV's comp connection?

From what I understand as long as the bandwidth is high enough you won't see any loss in picture quality. I have read 20mhz all the way up to 80mhz is acceptable.

Jason EC

01-24-04, 10:41 AM

Jerome,

I came from a 36" Hitachi 480p direct-view, and before I got the 57S700, a friend of mine bought the same series Toshiba you mention. Indeed his set couldn't resolve the 6.75 MHz patch, while my 36" could. On DVD's I was intimate with, his Toshiba had a distinct lack of detail. I recall one of the scenes we used was from IIRC Attack of the Clones, where some alien had some sort of necktie with fine stripes. My 36" showed the stripes clearly, his was very fuzzy and showed some color moire. In both cases we used my Mitsubishi DD-6000 DVD 480p player. (BTW the Mitsu's de-interlacer is superior to the one built into the 57S700). At the time I hadn't heard of the Toshibas 480->540 upconversion problem, and I noticed the softness in his picture before I tried the Avia resolution pattern.

When I first got this 57S700, I was disappointed by the DVD picture - not much more detail than my 36", and much more grainy. Tweaking the various sharpness parameters in the ISF menu helped immensely. The grain was being amplified by the ringing. The end result is that DVD now looks much more detailed than my 36", yet grain at 9 ft viewing distance is still nearly invisible.

Do any of the current Mitsu/Tosh/Sony RPTV's have a camera card reader? If so, I can go over to CC/Sears and take my 1080 resolution test with me. :)