We've already addressed the shortcomings in sound and features (though the majority in the world never use DTS) , WE DON'T NEED to keep bringing that up, it's a given and has been hammered to death, yes some other satelitte speakers suck less than Bose.

The bose can't manage proper DD or DTS playback. I'd say a lot of people with any other kind of boxed home theater have the ability to play DD or DTS and they do so all the time.

well like I said, I "butchered" the front of the speaker, but not any of the drivers. are the drivers themselves worth anything? (also I still have on untouched speaker)

-nick


Bose 901 drivers are very ordinary full range drivers. And I use the term "full range" loosely.

If drivers were sold at WalMart, Bose 901 drivers would be in a bin.


But an owner of 901's with a blown driver or two might really want them. I would put the pair (one unscathed, one for parts) on E-Bay and see what happens.

We've already addressed the shortcomings in sound and features (though the majority in the world never use DTS) , WE DON'T NEED to keep bringing that up, it's a given and has been hammered to death, yes some other satelitte speakers suck less than Bose.



This Hard drive server , the multiroom rf remote, the attractive central control unit, the lack of sophistication (read ease of operation for less techie people) , etc. , are what we IN THE BUISNESS, need to overcome with products that ALSO SOUND BETTER AND OFFER MORE. While it can be done, it isn't going to be any real cost savings, given these priorities, no matter how little value vs sound quality WITHOUT THEM that you or I or most here would place on these factors.
For the record, in my mind there are plentyu of fools who blow WAY TOO LARGE a percentage of their budget on a SS Rcvr with every bell and whistle under the sun (like HDMI SWITCHING/ scaling/upconverting) only to spend $800 on a satelitte speaker system that sounds like ....well you know how they all sound.

Jack, I think this is the single best post that has been made about Bose in this forum. I think what you just said made a lot of sense, even though you were in full rant mode :eek:

My wife was just speaking to a friend of hers and her husband is going to be putting together a A/V system. She said he did all the research and Bose is the best, but your husband probably already knows that. My wife didn't say anything even though she knows what I think of Bose.

Now I need speaking points. Here are the facts:
1) I don't know this guy at all, as this woman is a recent friend of my wife's, but I expect I'll be seeing him shortly.
2) The inference that I would agree Bose is best is infuriating to me

So how do I say "Bose sucks" to this guy when he has 'done all the research', without making him feel like a jerk.

Thoughts appreciated. I grew up speaking my mind and not beating around bushes, but this appears an appropriate time to speak gently.

--SimpleTheater

Send him here and to other sites like this one and tell him about the search function. Or take him into a specialty retailer that you know and like that has many alternatives and the two of you can explain to him the advantages that he might discover in other systems.

If he finds out in the future after he has bought the Bose system, you'll not be seen as a good friend for not warning him anyway.
Tell them the truth straight out, they'll probably think of you as a selfish person now but if
he and his wife are smart, they'll think twice after you inform them. Then hopefully they will make the right choice and you will probably be their hero.

SimpleTheater, I agree with the other 2 guys that you should send him to some forums so that he can read about former Bose customres who eventually saw the light.

There's also a very good Web page that provides some proof why Bose is way overrated, but I can't seem to find it. I think the URL was something like contextual.net or something like that (but that specific URL is not it).

There's also a very good Web page that provides some proof why Bose is way overrated, but I can't seem to find it. I think the URL was something like contextual.net or something like that (but that specific URL is not it).

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html
Ahhh, that's it! Thanks. So I got the 2nd half of that name right. :o

Hopefully that link will enlighten SimpleTheater's wife's friend's husband.

My wife was just speaking to a friend of hers and her husband is going to be putting together a A/V system. She said he did all the research and Bose is the best, but your husband probably already knows that. My wife didn't say anything even though she knows what I think of Bose.

Now I need speaking points. Here are the facts:
1) I don't know this guy at all, as this woman is a recent friend of my wife's, but I expect I'll be seeing him shortly.
2) The inference that I would agree Bose is best is infuriating to me

So how do I say "Bose sucks" to this guy when he has 'done all the research', without making him feel like a jerk.

Thoughts appreciated. I grew up speaking my mind and not beating around bushes, but this appears an appropriate time to speak gently.

--SimpleTheater

I've said this before but I think it bears repeating. Truthfully, small sat systems made by other speaker companies are not all that much better than Bose. The only one I have heard that really sounds very different is BA Micros. If you really want to do him/her a favor, don't even tell them Bose sucks. Rather, tell them small speakers suck.

I'm not afraid to admit that I bought a Bose Acoustimas 10 set from Fry's in 2002. I was living with my girlfriend in a 700 sq ft condo, all hard woods and the small bose speakers integrated well with the furniture. Of course it's not the highest quality components but for some, space saving and ease of installation is a factor. Plus you can get hooked up all in one shot.

Now that we've been in our house for a few years I have built a theater of seperate components and the Bose will go into the bedroom where I'm sure it will be enjoyed. I will say that the Bose system although overpriced has served us well in the 4 years we've owned it.

I've said this before but I think it bears repeating. Truthfully, small sat systems made by other speaker companies are not all that much better than Bose. The only one I have heard that really sounds very different is BA Micros. If you really want to do him/her a favor, don't even tell them Bose sucks. Rather, tell them small speakers suck.
For the same money? Even for "equal performance" as Bose, a small sat+sub system will most likely cost well under half of a Bose system. Not to mention that the sub will be much better than what comes with Bose.

Now, what about attractive package (lifestyle center), easy to use , single remote, immediate turn on, no virus or start-up problems, no computer knowledge neccesary, damn few cables?

I already know about the sound quality part, that's a given, but try to get most people to put up with all the extra knowledge and cr@p to deal with and it ain't happening. Computer based systems are only gaining favor with a very small select group of people for many reasons.
Okay, how about hooking up a Tivo, to any decent HTIB like maybe the Energy Take 5.2? The Tivo gives you hard drive access, very easy interface that many non-techies love! Now with Tivo2Go, you can listen to all of your music that is already ripped on your regular computer, somewhere else in the house, no need to transfer everything to another box. This is much more useful too since if you have an iPod or other MP3 player for example, you don't have to have you music library on two different systems. Of course this eliminates your no computer knowledge requirement, but my argument is that only minimum is necessary. How many non-tech oriented do you know with iPods? Just about everyone that has one, like them for their virtually simplistic, plug and play capability. I think the majority of the people that would want a system like the lifestyle center, already has a computer, and probably has some of their music library already computerized. Not to mention, the Tivo2Go is also giving you much more source material to listen to since it adds all of the streaming channels for music and other material. The benefits of the slightly more complex system outweighs the negatives IMO, not to mention the crap SQ of the Bose. Hell, for the money you save, you can buy a universal remote, pay someone to program the macros, and hook up your system for you so you get your 1 button turn on.

If you really want to do him/her a favor, don't even tell them Bose sucks. Rather, tell them small speakers suck.

Yes and no.

Tell them that they can get satellites that suck as much as Bose or maybe a little less than Bose, usually for a lot less money---or they can get real speakers that will sound a whole lot better than Bose, also for a lot less money.

i personally think that bose is a complete rip-off, and sound horrific compared to some of the other brands you can get for less... but you should go to a store and compare them side by side, buy what you like, its your money

i personally think that bose is a complete rip-off, and sound horrific compared to some of the other brands you can get for less... but you should go to a store and compare them side by side, buy what you like, its your money
Good luck finding a store where you can do an easy A-B comparison between Bose and anything else. They have rules about how their product is displayed that their retailers must agree to follow in order to sell their speakers, and Bose usually aren't set up in a manner where A-B comparisons can be done as a result.

sound horrific compared to some of the other brands you can get for less...

But do any satelittes sound very good?

But do any satelittes sound very good?

Good is subjective. To some, no satellites on the market sound good. To others, lots of them do. BLUF, some satellites sound better than others. A FAR marjority listeners who engage in a blind a-b comparisons between Bose and comparably priced alternatives will usually go with the comparably priced alternative. I used to sell this stuff in college in the late 90s, and I proved that fact over and over. Bose won maybe 5% of the time. I think those 5% peaked. ;)

Hi:
I had cobbled a HT system with Bose AM7 which I had bought 8 years ago, and then I bought bose AM3 from ebay about 4 years ago for $150. I'm thinking of upgrading the system but want to do it one component at a time. The first thing I want to replace is a center channel and then add a subwoofer. Is it okay to mix these component with Bose while I phase them out. Also, My budget for center channel is around $300 and for sub is around $400. I'm thinking of buying used components. Any recommendation about where I can get the best deal on these and what brands/model I should look for?
Cheers,
-Sam

Check out audiogon.com & ebay.

Hi:
I had cobbled a HT system with Bose AM7 which I had bought 8 years ago, and then I bought bose AM3 from ebay about 4 years ago for $150. I'm thinking of upgrading the system but want to do it one component at a time. The first thing I want to replace is a center channel and then add a subwoofer. Is it okay to mix these component with Bose while I phase them out. Also, My budget for center channel is around $300 and for sub is around $400. I'm thinking of buying used components. Any recommendation about where I can get the best deal on these and what brands/model I should look for?
Cheers,
-Sam

This would be an ideal center and at a great price:

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?spkrmoni&1146794981

For your sub, get the Mirage S12 from vanns.com while they're still in stock, $400 shipped for a sub with a $800 MSRP.

I just bought some BOSE headphones and do not like the sound quality. I feel I could have gotten a pair that focused more on sound quality than noise attenuation.

In my opinion, the best portable speaker system a soldier or anyone else could get is the Mick Fleetwood system sold by Cambridge SoundWorks. It's a 2.1 speaker system with its own portable amp, all of which packs into its really rugged sub for transport.

The Mick Fleetwood system is hands down the best portable speaker system I have ever heard (aside from the speakers that bands use which I guess are technically portable). I have a fairly nice speaker system at home. When I got the CSW system, I set it up in my media room to test it. I found myself listening to it for hours, I was so impressed with it. I have since used it as an outdoor system, on vacations, etc. and it still amazes me, and it costs a fraction of what Bose costs.

Thanks for the recommendation guys. I have pre-ordered S12.(It's out of stock again at Vanns). My friend is loaning me his inifinity center channel to try it out with an option to buy. Let's wait and see what I had been missing :-)

In my opinion, the best portable speaker system a soldier or anyone else could get is the Mick Fleetwood system sold by Cambridge SoundWorks. It's a 2.1 speaker system with its own portable amp, all of which packs into its really rugged sub for transport.

link? I couldn't find it on the website...at least nothing labeled "Mick Fleetwood."

Besides actually hear them (they sound terrible) they are very expensive. You can get B&W or Paradigm speakers that cost less and blow them away.

Also try listening to a movie. I work for an AV store and we have people coming in for center channels because the can't make out the voices. They frequencies are cut off so early and even deep voices go to their bass box(don't call it a subwoofer because it's not).

FInally try to find a positive review on them. They don't exist. The best marketing company in the world!

Is there no stopping the Bose marketing machine? I was reading some reviews on charcoal grills over at Epinions.com, when I did a quick search for Bose. A couple of days a person gives a Bose system 5 stars. Normally I wouldn't care less - one idiots opinion. But when I read this I nearly flipped: "Bose is well known for quality, and if you have ever listened to anything made by Bose, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. "
http://www.epinions.com/content_223536778884

What a marketing machine!

--SimpleTheater

Is there no stopping the Bose marketing machine? I was reading some reviews on charcoal grills over at Epinions.com, when I did a quick search for Bose. A couple of days a person gives a Bose system 5 stars. Normally I wouldn't care less - one idiots opinion. But when I read this I nearly flipped: "Bose is well known for quality, and if you have ever listened to anything made by Bose, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. "
http://www.epinions.com/content_223536778884

What a marketing machine!

--SimpleTheater

LOL if you really want a hoot, read the pro-Bose reviews at amazon.com --- there's one guy who goes by "James Bond Israel" who posted "owners' photos" of the Bose Companion PC speakers that were blatantly straight out of a Bose brochure.

This is why I have often suggested on anti-Bose threads like this that people need to go onto sites like that and post negative reviews of their products or at the very least give tons of "unhelpful" ratings to all the blatant Bose-shill reviews.

Hey, I'm new here...so yeah.

I used to like Bose until I started reading this kinda stuff, and I wouldn't bother bashing them if they didn't overprice and overpromise. I don't know if anybody has made this point on here before or not, but have any of you every thought about the fact that it is really impossible to get true stereophonic imaging with Boses compact waveguide speakers? Even with their 901 I don't think that the imaging will accuratly reflect the live performance. I have an alarm clock cd player that has it's speakers firing towards the sides, and it sound s very ambient, but all of the sound seems to come from the middle of the unit, so there is absolutely no imaging whatsoever, and I think the same affect happens with the Bose 901.

Here is a review about tower speakers including Bose 701 from audioholics. Not a surprise Bose 701 is rated the lowest. Humm..., I wonder why, if Bose sounds so good.

Speaker System Face Off I - Battle of the Budget Towers (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/loudspeakers/faceoff1.php) ;)

all the blatant Bose-shill reviews.

There are MANY other blatant ___- shill reviews here for many differant brands, and , like the Bose, they all suck also.

To the guy who bought the Bose headphones and didn't like them, why didn't you just return them?

Sorry about not posting a link to the Mick Fleetwood system, here it is:

http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=mul_speakers&item=c1md12ee

It's $100 off for a couple more days. See http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=0

Where did you get the idea that they are decent? Who told you that? Cost wise they are a rip off, and offer low sound, poor components.

Search for Bose.. on most audio forums I think they will all say the same- overpriced, hyped up my advertising, poor sound, low quality components.

For those of you hu think that bose are rubbish you obviously dont no how to use them as they are the best speakers, dont even get me started on JBL Junk nut rubbish. mackie just dont do it in sound when you start driving them you can tell i could go on.........

For those of you hu think that bose are rubbish you obviously dont no how to use them as they are the best speakers, dont even get me started on JBL Junk nut rubbish. mackie just dont do it in sound when you start driving them you can tell i could go on.........

I can't tell if you're joking or not - considering you are quoting a post that is over two years old.

So, if you are joking - Thanks for the laugh! :D

If you are serious - Thanks for the laugh! :D

Also, when you say "hu" instead of "who" is that a subliminal message to Hsu Research speakers?

--SimpleTheater

For those of you hu think that bose are rubbish you obviously dont no how to use them as they are the best speakers, dont even get me started on JBL Junk nut rubbish. mackie just dont do it in sound when you start driving them you can tell i could go on.........
-----------------

huh? hard to follow what you are saying here....

I own a Bose system and I can definitely say they are not the 'best' speakers I could have bought. They serve my purpose well and are 'excellent' for movies. I like the form factor and performance in my home setting - best they are not!

Over-priced. IMHO, yes. I have a Bose Lifestyle 48 and at $4K I could easily have composed a better sounding system at lower cost, but it would have a much bigger footprint. I looked at Mirage and a few smaller speaker systems at BB and Tweeter, but in the end my reasoning was that I was not likely to change my audio system for a while and paying the extra $1,000 or so for it was hard, but was able to justify.

On the other hand, I faced a similar delimma when I was thinking of buying a Plasma TV. My initial choice was the Pioneer 1130HD. However, I was not willing to pay the $1,500-$2, 000 premium over my next best choice (althought the Pioneer looked nicer) since video technology appears to be changing faster and will likely upgrade in less than 2 years.

I am hoping to use the difference in getting a Blu Ray or HD DVD player.

Several of my friends have other systems and in my (subjective) opinion none look as nice or elegant as the Bose Lifestyle I have and while, their sound quality may be better, for the kind of music I listen to and the movies I watch the Bose is just perfect and the same movies (Star Wars and Lord of the Rings come to mind) don't sound any worse in my home than any of my friends place, if anything many people like the way the Bose sounds.

Hopefully I won't get spanked by all the people who hate Bose, but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I understand that most audiophiles (and audioholics) will not prefer a Bose for their listening purpose. That's ok. I'm sure similarly a videophile will probably be put of by my self calibrated Panasonic and NEC plasmas, but it works for me and that's what matters in the end.

I don't have the best TV, best stereo, best car or best anything....but I'm pretty happy with all three (for the moment) :)

Hey, I'm new here...so yeah.

I used to like Bose until I started reading this kinda stuff, and I wouldn't bother bashing them if they didn't overprice and overpromise. I don't know if anybody has made this point on here before or not, but have any of you every thought about the fact that it is really impossible to get true stereophonic imaging with Boses compact waveguide speakers? Even with their 901 I don't think that the imaging will accuratly reflect the live performance. I have an alarm clock cd player that has it's speakers firing towards the sides, and it sound s very ambient, but all of the sound seems to come from the middle of the unit, so there is absolutely no imaging whatsoever, and I think the same affect happens with the Bose 901.y
-----------------

Conversely, do you know you can't get true High Definition on a 42 inch 1024X 720 High Definition TV? Yet they are sold as high def sets and people buying them are pretty happy and believe what they are seeing is real high def!

It's what appeals to you and what is important to you that counts. Not what others on the forum are saying. I believe the forum can help you look at products that you may have thought about - but most of the bashing that goes on is unwarranted and in many cases a dis-service to the members trying to decide.

I would say, any magazine or publication that takes in ad revenue from the products they are reviewing will never be truly unbiased. The logic is, if I bash #1, I get ad revenue from #2-25...good for business. Plus, Bose makes it easy since their speakers are not technically accurate, nor do they use the most expensive materials for their cones. But, what they do have working for them is a loyal customer base who, once they have bought a Bose continues to come back for more (in most cases). Sound is subjective and in many cases technically perfect sound reproduction is not what appeals to us. Think of all the old music and movies that are re-mastered (and enhanced)

This forum is an excellent for those companies who make good products but don't have the marketing budget of Bose....

Bose is almost universally despised among audiophiles *nowadays*. However it's interesting that decades ago (before Bose became a popular household name) how many of those golden-eared audiophiles loved the 901.

That said, here are a some interesting non-Bose options for 5.1 speaker systems around $1k (or slightly above):

Axiom M2i/VP100/QS4, combined with a Hsu STF-2 subwoofer. See http://www.axiomaudio.com/epicmidi.html and www.hsuresearch.com. Pro: tremendous value for the money, great sound. Con: mail order only (can't live audition), speakers larger than the micro type.

5 Mirage Omnisat Micros, combined with Hsu STF-2 sub. See http://www.miragespeakers.com/omnistat_mic.shtml. Pro: looks very cool, pretty good sound, very small package. Con: sound possibly not as good as Axiom (but still better than Bose).

Panasonic SC-HT900 home theater in a box. See http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?storeId=11251&catalogId=11005&itemId=64104&catGroupId=11136&modelNo=SC-HT900&surfModel=SC-HT900. Pro: looks cool, includes DVD player. Good user reviews. Con: sound probably not as good as 1st two (but hey, it's only 500 bucks).
-------------------

These IMHO are still the best looking micro speakers out there:

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=ls35_dvd_index
I would differ with the above opinion that the Mirage sounds better than the above Bose system. I have listened to both and the Bose is equal if not better. Don't stone me, but that's my opinion....

The Bose at 3K is fairly more expensive than the others....

I would say, any magazine or publication that takes in ad revenue from the products they are reviewing will never be truly unbiased.

Up to three years ago, I would have agreed with you.

Then I got a subscription to Maximum PC magazine. They stated that their reviewers never communicate with their sales. I was very skeptical until the second issue. They thoroughly ripped to shreds some new Iomega product (I think they gave it two out of a ten rating) and made disparaging remarks about the product. Then I turned the page - and the VERY NEXT PAGE was a full two page Iomega spread touting their new product. I knew this magazine was different.

More recently they ran a power supply comparison, and the company (XConnect) that had been running six months of ads on the rear cover, came in dead last out of five different power supplies.

This is one great magazine, and I've written the editor plenty of times for them to come out with Maximum HT (Home Theater). I am so sick and tired of every reviewer acting as though every speaker is the "best thing in their price range".

--SimpleTheater

These IMHO are still the best looking micro speakers out there:

http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=ls35_dvd_index
I would differ with the above opinion that the Mirage sounds better than the above Bose system. I have listened to both and the Bose is equal if not better. Don't stone me, but that's my opinion....

The Bose at 3K is fairly more expensive than the others....

I won't stone you - and if the argument is "I want small sat speakers" I still won't argue.

But for $3K, you can get:
1) NAD T743 Receiver..................................$699
2) NAD T514..............................................$299
3) [2] Definitive BP 6B front speakers.............$598
4) Definitive 2300 Center Channel..................$599
5) [2] Definitive BP1.2X...............................$348
6) Definitive ProSub 100TL...........................$449
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total....................................................$2, 992

And I think the above system would just blow away any (not just Bose), any sub/sat system.

--SimpleTheater

Up to three years ago, I would have agreed with you.

Then I got a subscription to Maximum PC magazine. They stated that their reviewers never communicate with their sales. I was very skeptical until the second issue. They thoroughly ripped to shreds some new Iomega product (I think they gave it two out of a ten rating) and made disparaging remarks about the product. Then I turned the page - and the VERY NEXT PAGE was a full two page Iomega spread touting their new product. I knew this magazine was different.

More recently they ran a power supply comparison, and the company (XConnect) that had been running six months of ads on the rear cover, came in dead last out of five different power supplies.

This is one great magazine, and I've written the editor plenty of times for them to come out with Maximum HT (Home Theater). I am so sick and tired of every reviewer acting as though every speaker is the "best thing in their price range".

--SimpleTheater
---------------------

You do get those who break the mold :)

Lots of courage, I'll check them out!

I won't stone you - and if the argument is "I want small sat speakers" I still won't argue.

But for $3K, you can get:
1) NAD T743 Receiver..................................$699
2) NAD T514..............................................$299
3) [2] Definitive BP 6B front speakers.............$598
4) Definitive 2300 Center Channel..................$599
5) [2] Definitive BP1.2X...............................$348
6) Definitive ProSub 100TL...........................$449
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total....................................................$2, 992

And I think the above system would just blow away any (not just Bose), any sub/sat system.

--SimpleTheater
---------------

absolutely! In general I'm very impressed by Definitive and NAD no doubt they sound better than a Bose in any comparable listening environment.

Now the question is why would so many people pay so much more to getting an inferior product. The closest analogy I came up with is this:

Consider two cars, the Honda 2000 and a Ferrari. Now Car and Driver has the Honda 2000 as one of their top 10 cars. Now increase the price of the Honda 2000 by 100K to 134K so that the Honda 2000 and the Ferrari cost the same! Would it make the Honda 2000 a worse car? technically it would be the same car, but the value proposition would change. Clearly, Car and Driver would probably slam it as a 10 worst! It would be underpowered and the workmanship would clearly not justify the cost.

Now imagine if one year later you find the Honda 2000 at 134K sold 10X as many units as the Ferrari...what would you think?

Well....

(I have nothing against Honda or the 2000, probably the Honda is more reliable than the Ferrari who know, maybe the warranty is better? My point is that the problem with Bose is that their price points don't justify what their product offer - but then even I ended up with a Bose after all my analysis and all!!!!!!!)

Up to three years ago, I would have agreed with you.

Then I got a subscription to Maximum PC magazine. They stated that their reviewers never communicate with their sales. I was very skeptical until the second issue. They thoroughly ripped to shreds some new Iomega product (I think they gave it two out of a ten rating) and made disparaging remarks about the product. Then I turned the page - and the VERY NEXT PAGE was a full two page Iomega spread touting their new product. I knew this magazine was different.

More recently they ran a power supply comparison, and the company (XConnect) that had been running six months of ads on the rear cover, came in dead last out of five different power supplies.

This is one great magazine, and I've written the editor plenty of times for them to come out with Maximum HT (Home Theater). I am so sick and tired of every reviewer acting as though every speaker is the "best thing in their price range".

--SimpleTheater
Wow, good for Max PC mag.!

Going a little off topic here, I agree that XConnect is a lousy PSU. Too bad people horde them up when they're on sale for a ridiculously low price. They eventually pay the price when their computers randomly shut down when doing gaming, etc. :rolleyes:

Wow, good for Max PC mag.!

Going a little off topic here, I agree that XConnect is a lousy PSU. Too bad people horde them up when they're on sale for a ridiculously low price. They eventually pay the price when their computers randomly shut down when doing gaming, etc. :rolleyes:
Hopefully shutting down is all it does.

Hopefully shutting down is all it does.
Yeah, I would assume that it would not be fire-prone, otherwise that would lead to lawsuits galore. :eek:

I'm looking at buying a Corvette that has a Bose audio system as an option. Is this a good sound system? I know Bose generally makes over-priced mediocre home audio systems. I wonder if the same applies to their car audio stuff.

I'm looking at buying a Corvette that has a Bose audio system as an option. Is this a good sound system? I know Bose generally makes over-priced mediocre home audio systems. I wonder if the same applies to their car audio stuff.
Bose sucks everywhere. My Acura RSX-S came with a Bose premium sound system. It blows. Had it not been for my 10" subwoofer in the hatch, my Bose audio system would have had less bass than the average alarm clock. Hell, I think my cell phone speakers' (plural since my phone has stereo speakers) has more bass than my car Bose "woofer". :rolleyes:

Anyway, you should not pay a premium for that Corvette just because it has the optional Bose audio system.

Man, I love reading these Bose threads-- can't get enough of them.

But, I like to offer my thoughts.

1) So, you, us, we or I are in the know about Bose. We need to relax. Some people like, Bose sound, many don't. I truly understand why we want friends, relatives and others to get value and performance out of their audio products. But sometimes, you have to let sleeping dogs lie.

2) HTPCs. If you are so inclined, you can build one for yourself, and beat in quality what you would purchase from most anyone.
Check out: http://www.htpcnews.com/
Google: XBMC, MythTV, Meedio and Beyond TV
I would think a lot of noise issues could be mitigated by having a server PCs and optical out to your a/v receiver. I have a decent setup with a modded xbox, that can act as jukebox and my optical out goes into my a/v receiver. You can also stream video, audio, use Tivo-like program if your hook up a tuner card to your htpc and you are set. It's a fun, if sometimes daunting set up. :)

1) So, you, us, we or I are in the know about Bose. We need to relax. Some people like, Bose sound, many don't. I truly understand why we want friends, relatives and others to get value and performance out of their audio products. But sometimes, you have to let sleeping dogs lie.
I've asked this question before, and I still can't articulate a response so maybe you can help. Here is what has transpired on two different occasions in my own backyard:

Neighbor So I heard you're building a home theater.
Me Yes.
Neighbor What's this stuff on the walls.
Me Acoustic board from Owens Corning. Its for absorbing some sound.
Neighbor Oh, so you're like really into sound.
Me Yeah, I really want it to sound as close to perfect as possible.
Neighbor So you must be getting Bose speakers.
Me [my eyes roll], Bose is one of the worst speakers you can buy. I won't be putting any Bose in my HT.
Neighbor [feeling bad] Oh, well good luck.

So how do I "nicely" say Bose sucks, without actually making these people feel stupid and small?

--SimpleTheater

So how do I "nicely" say Bose sucks, without actually making these people feel stupid and small?

--SimpleTheater"Bose is great at marketing, but you can get a lot better sound with other brands."

"Bose is great at marketing, but you can get a lot better sound with other brands."
Thats what my wife says to say, but that seems to imply that Bose is simply overpriced.

For example, we have this nice little place that sells wood chimes. They are 3x more expensive then other wood chimes, but they are still fine wood chimes, just over priced. I want to get across the point that you can get better sound than Bose at the same price, 1/2 the price and probably 1/3 the price.

--SimpleTheater

Friends don't let friends buy Bose.

There is no reason to tell someone who owns something that it sucks unless you have an ego problem. Just tell them you found (or are looking for) a brand of speakers that you really like. If you are not worried about hurting their feelings, and/or they don't own Bose, just say that you find that there are better-sounding speakers out there, [for the money].

There is no reason to tell someone who owns something that it sucks unless you have an ego problem.

Or you can't stand the person because they're a jerk. :D

Not that I'm speaking from personal experience or anything. :p

Yeah I forgot to mention that too. Another thing: Bose are wife-friendly, for sure.

Anyway, I need some good [looking] speakers. See my other post in this thread...

Anyway, I need some good [looking] speakers. See my other post in this thread...

The Mirage Omnisats would fit the bill, plus they sound a hell of a lot better.

Sorry a little off topic, but funny anyway:

BOSE makes suspension systems for cars too...Look on their website (I guess I can't post URL's here)

"The Bose sSuspension
The proprietary Bose suspension system couples linear electromagnetic motors and power amplifiers with a set of unique control algorithms. For the first time, it is possible to have, in the same automobile, a much smoother ride than in any luxury sedan and less roll and pitch than in any sports car. The Bose research vehicle provides superior comfort by gliding smoothly over bumpy roads and superior control by keeping the car body level during aggressive maneuvers."

They probably use plastic bolts, and "revolutionary new space-aged paper" to hold it all together.

Then I got a subscription to Maximum PC magazine. They stated that their reviewers never communicate with their sales. I was very skeptical until the second issue. They thoroughly ripped to shreds some new Iomega product (I think they gave it two out of a ten rating) and made disparaging remarks about the product. Then I turned the page - and the VERY NEXT PAGE was a full two page Iomega spread touting their new product. I knew this magazine was different.

More recently they ran a power supply comparison, and the company (XConnect) that had been running six months of ads on the rear cover, came in dead last out of five different power supplies.

This is one great magazine, and I've written the editor plenty of times for them to come out with Maximum HT (Home Theater). I am so sick and tired of every reviewer acting as though every speaker is the "best thing in their price range".



I totally agree man. This is a great magazine! Too bad audio mags aren't the same. They are actually worried about losing their customers instead of helping the readers of their magazines. More power to Maximum PC! Down with Stereophile! LOL just kidding Kal! :p

American beer tastes like shandy. Try a proper drink- Murphy's, Guiness, paint stripper etc ;-)
I've heard that the only reason the Brits like warm beer is because they all have Lucas Refrigerators!

Wow, that is a quote from almost day 1!!!!!

Oh, as for how to say it, the best is the cost thing.

The problem is, it is difficult to tell people that they really do suck for the cost. Marketing has done their job.

A good beer comparison, besides Bud, would be Corona.

Corona is not a HORRIBLE beer, but it is cheap piss-water. It was sold like cheap piss-water for years at many a place. So for $1 you could get a bottle, with or without the frigging lime, and drink up.

Now that the marketing people show nothing but tropical islands (like we know so many people are at while drinking, buying, or making this beer) their prices have skyrocketed and so have their sales.

So the lesson learned is that, so long as you can find a niche, and sell to it with creative and aggressive advertising, you really do not need to have anything special to sell!

Thats what my wife says to say, but that seems to imply that Bose is simply overpriced.

For example, we have this nice little place that sells wood chimes. They are 3x more expensive then other wood chimes, but they are still fine wood chimes, just over priced. I want to get across the point that you can get better sound than Bose at the same price, 1/2 the price and probably 1/3 the price.

--SimpleTheater
You answered your question. When someone (like your neighbor) asks you "Why aren't you getting Bose", you can say, "Bose is not that great. <Insert your quote that I underlined here.>"

You answered your question. When someone (like your neighbor) asks you "Why aren't you getting Bose", you can say, "Bose is not that great. <Insert your quote that I underlined here.>"
I'm a freakin' genius! I just needed someone else to tell me. :)

--SimpleTheater

I'm a freakin' genius! I just needed someone else to tell me. :)

--SimpleTheater

LOL! You funny guy you. :p

I'm looking at buying a Corvette that has a Bose audio system as an option. Is this a good sound system? I know Bose generally makes over-priced mediocre home audio systems. I wonder if the same applies to their car audio stuff.

My mother has a 2000 Mercedes ML320 and my father has a 1999 ML430 - both have Blowse systems. They sound absolutely horrible, in fact most people on the M-Class forums change out their audio systems completely, including the head unit which is only "Bose compatible". Since Bose has their speaker amplifiers right at the speakers, the headunit acts as only a preamp. They use a 7 inch subwoofer directly below the driver's seat in a bandpass enclosure. It sounds so muddy and boomy...then distorts at high levels. The door woofers have no treble whatsoever and distort even at normal levels of music volume.

I'm a freakin' genius! I just needed someone else to tell me. :)

--SimpleTheater
No problem. :D

Let's see who else I can turn into a genius. :p

My mother has a 2000 Mercedes ML320 and my father has a 1999 ML430 - both have Blowse systems. They sound absolutely horrible, in fact most people on the M-Class forums change out their audio systems completely, including the head unit which is only "Bose compatible". Since Bose has their speaker amplifiers right at the speakers, the headunit acts as only a preamp. They use a 7 inch subwoofer directly below the driver's seat in a bandpass enclosure. It sounds so muddy and boomy...then distorts at high levels. The door woofers have no treble whatsoever and distort even at normal levels of music volume.

I hate bose as much as anyone else, but isn't it a good thing that the woofers don't have any treble? :D

I love bose! I don't see what wrong. My Cars have them, my whole house is wired with bose. I have even convinced my kids that bose is the best. My son now saves up his money to buy bose speakers. He now had Acoustimass 5 seakers and triport headphones. It sounds GREAT and is wife friendly.

It's not a matter of seeing what is wrong with them as hearing what is wrong with them.

I was once shopping for a pair of bookshelf speakers, and I had my heart set on Bose 301s. The salesman was suggesting Energy and another brand. I didn't trust him, so even though the sound of the others was better, I went with the Bose--the Bose had poor highs and lows (what else is new?).

The "reputation" sure gets in the of way of making rational decisions. Even one's own ears don't always help. Throw in the fact that you have just spent what was a lot of money at the time, and we become really good at deluding ourselves.

The only way to do it is with a blindfold in your own house. Good luck with that. It's always a crap shoot.

If you read enough here you'll go nuts--total speaker, amp, sub envy all the time.

Stay away from the bose, but if you do keep it, just remember that the sound will be better than what you had. It's like a hotel room that had a smoker in it--eventually you won't notice the smell--until you listen to a friend's system that blows yours away for 2/3 the price.

Yes, I'm rambling; no, I don't really have a point.

Stay away from the bose, but if you do keep it, just remember that the sound will be better than what you had. It's like a hotel room that had a smoker in it--eventually you won't notice the smell--until you listen to a friend's system that blows yours away for 2/3 the price.

Or even more embarassingly, 1/3 the price.

I still shudder remembering just how awful my friend's Bose 1-2-3 sounds, worse than many boom-boxes in fact.

if 1 is Bose1-2-3 and 10 is Polk LSi9,LSiC,LSiFX then where is Bose LS 38?

if 1 is Bose1-2-3 and 10 is Polk LSi9,LSiC,LSiFX then where is Bose LS 38?

Maybe 3.

If the Polks are run by a beefy amp/receiver, make that -3.

Another thing: Bose are wife-friendly, for sure.


I beg to differ. My wife's question regarding spending money on something other than Bose vanished the instant I put my favorite CD in (and we don't even share the same taste in music). Every time we hear the harsh music from a Bose system, my wife winks at me or compliments me for my choice (in speakers ). My wife's friend was also pi$$ed off at her husband cos he spent 3x what I did for significantly poor sound. That would make 2 wives who are now not Bose-friendly.

Bose Wifey's Friendly here....... Bose LS38 for sale.....

I love bose! I don't see what wrong. My Cars have them, my whole house is wired with bose. I have even convinced my kids that bose is the best. My son now saves up his money to buy bose speakers. He now had Acoustimass 5 seakers and triport headphones. It sounds GREAT and is wife friendly.
This is either the funniest thing I've read in a while, or the saddest. :D :(

If it's for WAF factor, why not just buy some computer speakers? I'm sure they have much higher WAF than Bose speakers, and quite a few of them seem far more technically able in the waveform reproduction range.

If it's for WAF factor, why not just buy some computer speakers? I'm sure they have much higher WAF than Bose speakers, and quite a few of them seem far more technically able in the waveform reproduction range.
Speaking of computer speakers, I bet my Logitech Z-5500 5.1 speakers can outperform most Bose 5.1 speakers. I love these Logitechs!! :cool:

I don't have a wife, so I dont know about how it would rank in the WAF category. But it passes MAF (my acceptance factor) with flying colors!! :D

I suggest those wanting the benfits of a small form factor like Bose speakers, would be far better off with Orb Audio (http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=8).

I suggest those wanting the benfits of a small form factor like Bose speakers, would be far better off with Orb Audio (http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=8).
Those speakers sure look cute but can get pretty pricey!

Those speakers sure look cute but can get pretty pricey!

I'm a fairly frugal kind of guy and I consider them very reasonably priced. Lots of bang for the buck here; I doubt they can be beat in this form factor.

Those speakers sure look cute but can get pretty pricey!

That's always been my take on them, though I confess to never having heard them myself. I can't imagine that they could equal say, the $278 Ascend HTM-200s' performance, though of course in aesthetics there is no contest. Ditto with the Orb sub compared to a similarly priced Hsu. But just speculation... :)

I don't have the Acoustimess system....just some 3 year old 301's for the fronts and whatever their current rear/center setup is (can't think of the model #'s offhand)...
So..probalby $700 for the whole mess?? Got a nice Infinity sub about 5 years ago that was $450. It sounds pretty decent in my 12x14 untreated living room with hardwood floors, a big plate glass front window, and 1954 plaster walls ;)

of course..when the NEC 42xr4 showed up on the wall last month (and the big armoir was removed...) all of a sudden, WAF kicked in.... :)

But, THIS setup of Boses' sure didn't suck for the money, imvho. And, no way I could justify spending $3000 on speakers without properly treating THE ROOM first...but..$1000 or so for the ORB's...yup...Drooling over the ORB AUDIO setup now.....

I certainly DO agree with the majority of opinions about the overpriced Bose stuff tho...

just my .025 cents worth of opinion...

I don't care much for any satelitte speakers, myself, I feel it's too much of a compromise, but if you want to argue who's suck less, more power to ya'.....but most mentioned are not as "cute" or small, so there is the "sucks even more than the other satelites, but are at least not ugly" arguement......oh, and the sub sucks more than the others but if the wife can't see it stuffed befind the sofa it's all good.


-------------------------------------------

However, as for the Lifestyle system , I will give them credit for the following:

It comes with a pictographic poster sized hook-up chart that your parents can understand.

It has a hard drive recorder , receiver, dvd player and a whole set of cute speakers along with ONE SIMPLE RF remote that your grandparents can operate.

It fits into places/spaces where many couldn't get anything else (like furniture).

-------------------------------------------------------------

Even if you take out the size constraint (a big selling point by the way) try to assemble a system that has all those ingrediants for that price , include hard drive music server with on-screen, dvd player, receiver, speakers, and a single rf remote (or ir repeater system) , including the programming costs for the remote, cables, instalation of ir repeater (if owner can't do that themselves)...... How much? Is it easy to operate? Does it look Gastly?, Wires hanging out everywhere?

good points, all the way around. But..alas...compromise is due is most circumstances when WAF is taken into consideration. At least mine 'gets it' when it comes to audio.

The 'it sucks less' argument...LOLOL :) Gotta agree with that.

I gotta admit..the 'cute factor' of the Orbs at least has me piqued enough to hear them. I've been impressed with what I've read (especially from a price/perfomance/WAF/aestheics POV).

I'm a fairly frugal kind of guy and I consider them very reasonably priced. Lots of bang for the buck here; I doubt they can be beat in this form factor.
That's always been my take on them, though I confess to never having heard them myself. I can't imagine that they could equal say, the $278 Ascend HTM-200s' performance, though of course in aesthetics there is no contest. Ditto with the Orb sub compared to a similarly priced Hsu. But just speculation...
I haven't heard those speakers myself. I'm sure they sound much better than Bose (which doesn't necessarily mean much, LOL). But my argument is that I've seen "cute" sat+sub speakers that are cheaper and probably sound better than Bose (although maybe not as good as Orb Audio. For example, there were a couple Infinity 5.1 sat/sub speakers I heard when I was HTS shopping that were cheaper, looked good, and didn't sound bad at all.

I haven't heard those speakers myself. I'm sure they sound much better than Bose (which doesn't necessarily mean much, LOL). But my argument is that I've seen "cute" sat+sub speakers that are cheaper and probably sound better than Bose (although maybe not as good as Orb Audio. For example, there were a couple Infinity 5.1 sat/sub speakers I heard when I was HTS shopping that were cheaper, looked good, and didn't sound bad at all.

Had a Bose Lifestyle system when we were younger. It sounded fine. After we moved to a smaller house (had to do with schools, long story, glad we did it and glad we're past it), parts of it started misbehaving. We donated it to a charity that was glad to have it, took the write-off, and dropped an Infinity 5.1 system in as a stop-gap until we moved again. Lo and behold, the Infinity system that cost less than a third of the price sounded better.

Dare I say in the end the best part of the Bose system was the Telarc sampler CD that came with it? I have enjoyed testing new systems with it. Every time, the first track says to the Bose "Whose your daddy? I am..."

compromise is due is most circumstances when WAF is taken into consideration.

some of that, but the hard drive recorder and remote is something most will enjoy...even guys don't like doing the remote dance (seen the commercial?), and benifit from not having to be "line of sight".
Go out and find out what a custom programmer would charge to program an RF Remote with all these components programmed in (or IR if you factor in cost and installation of repeater parts)...you'll be surprised.

I gotta admit..the 'cute factor' of the Orbs at least has me piqued enough to hear them.

They suck a bit less.

Had a Bose Lifestyle system when we were younger. It sounded fine. After we moved to a smaller house (had to do with schools, long story, glad we did it and glad we're past it), parts of it started misbehaving. We donated it to a charity that was glad to have it, took the write-off, and dropped an Infinity 5.1 system in as a stop-gap until we moved again. Lo and behold, the Infinity system that cost less than a third of the price sounded better.

Dare I say in the end the best part of the Bose system was the Telarc sampler CD that came with it? I have enjoyed testing new systems with it. Every time, the first track says to the Bose "Whose your daddy? I am..."
LOL that is pretty funny. Glad it worked out for you by getting the tax write off from donating a Bose system and finding a better performing and cheaper speaker set with Infinity. I haven't heard the Telarc sampler CD; I'll have to see if I can find it somewhere. :)

I have just installed my new Panny 50"500U plasma and now need to complete my surround system. I have a Rotel stereo system and have inherited two Bose 901's ( that I will use for the front speakers) and two Bose 201's (for the rear). I need to complete the system by purchasing a sub and a center speaker. What do you recommend? Please no Bose-bashers; I have these speakers already and it is pointless to throw them away.

I have just installed my new Panny 50"500U plasma and now need to complete my surround system. I have a Rotel stereo system and have inherited two Bose 901's ( that I will use for the front speakers) and two Bose 201's (for the rear). I need to complete the system by purchasing a sub and a center speaker. What do you recommend? Please no Bose-bashers; I have these speakers already and it is pointless to throw them away.The rears (really should be surrounds in a 5.1 system) don't matter as much as the center. The center must match the mains, or your entire (front) sound stage will never sound right. The Bose 901 is old, right? So you're going to have to drop back and punt: You're almost certainly going to have to try a variety of speakers until you find one the timbre of which (closely) matches your 901's. Other than that: You're better-off using phantom center.

I'll leave the sub question to those more current on current offerings.

I have just installed my new Panny 50"500U plasma and now need to complete my surround system. I have a Rotel stereo system and have inherited two Bose 901's ( that I will use for the front speakers) and two Bose 201's (for the rear). I need to complete the system by purchasing a sub and a center speaker. What do you recommend? Please no Bose-bashers; I have these speakers already and it is pointless to throw them away.
The problem with 901s in a surround system is how to incorporate the Bose equalizer. It is absolutely required with the 901s, and usually goes into either a tape/processor loop, or between pre-out/main-in jacks, which precious recievers have these days.

The rears (really should be surrounds in a 5.1 system) don't matter as much as the center. The center must match the mains, or your entire (front) sound stage will never sound right. The Bose 901 is old, right? So you're going to have to drop back and punt: You're almost certainly going to have to try a variety of speakers until you find one the timbre of which (closely) matches your 901's. Other than that: You're better-off using phantom center.


I'll leave the sub question to those more current on current offerings.
Should I just purchase a Bose center channel speaker? I noticed one on sale at CC for $199.

I have a Rotel stereo system. Should I go for a complete new speaker system? I was hoping to save an expense and just add the center and sub? Thanks for any feedback.

I have a Rotel stereo system. Should I go for a complete new speaker system? I was hoping to save an expense and just add the center and sub? Thanks for any feedback.

ugh, a Rotel hooked up to Bose speakers would be a crying shame. Yeah, absolutely get a new speaker system---if you are willing to go with Internet-direct speakers the cost can actually be very reasonable. What's your maximum budget?

ugh, a Rotel hooked up to Bose speakers would be a crying shame. Yeah, absolutely get a new speaker system---if you are willing to go with Internet-direct speakers the cost can actually be very reasonable. What's your maximum budget?
I would be willing to spend around a $1K or so. I just presumed I could get away by adding to the 4 Bose speakers. I know there are a lot of Bose bashers in these forums and you can't all be wrong. How good is that SVS speaker set that is priced around my budget?

I would be willing to spend around a $1K or so. I just presumed I could get away by adding to the 4 Bose speakers. I know there are a lot of Bose bashers in these forums and you can't all be wrong. How good is that SVS speaker set that is priced around my budget?

Heck that SVS system would easily kick the stuffing out of a Bose system.

Others in that price range would be the Onix XL-S (but they're sold out until mid July I think) and the Ascend HTM-200s with Hsu STF-2 sub, $1079 shipped.

Any of those 3 systems, esp. in direct AB listening with your Bose speakers, would offer very convincing proof of what the Bose bashers have been saying all along.

ShouldIt just purchase a Bose center channel speaker? I noticed one on sale at CC for $199.I doesn't work that way. Yeah, Bose speaker systems tend to all sound a bit similar. Most speaker systems from most manufacturers tend to have identifiable... um... "sonic traits?" they share. But, and this is a big one, that doesn't mean that they'll all have identical timbre. In fact: You won't get identical timbre across models in current production, much less models across the years. Except by mostly luck.

IOW: You can't take a random Bose center channel speaker from today and expect to be able to match it to a pair of 901's. I'm not saying such a match doesn't exist. I'm just saying you can't assume it does.

I have a Rotel stereo system. Should I go for a complete new speaker system? I was hoping to save an expense and just add the center and sub? Thanks for any feedback.Given the likely difficulty in finding a center to match your mains, and the need for that equalizer mentioned earlier: Yes, I think a complete new set of speakers is in order.

Heck that SVS system would easily kick the stuffing out of a Bose system.

Others in that price range would be the Onix XL-S (but they're sold out until mid July I think) and the Ascend HTM-200s with Hsu STF-2 sub, $1079 shipped.

Any of those 3 systems, esp. in direct AB listening with your Bose speakers, would offer very convincing proof of what the Bose bashers have been saying all along.
Thanks guys, i know what you are saying is true. I am not really a videophile and I only watch a few movies on weekends; I watch mainly sports. Does anyone have experience listening to certain speakers with a Rotel system or would all of the ones mentioned sound great?

Well, I own a bose system, the 6.1 system and the 201 and the center channel and the 161's and the acoustimass 3 system, just for the 7.1 part of the system. so i have a yamaha receiver pushing 7.1 system with two subs and 11 speakers. I know, I am sure there will be the typical response, "oh you could have all that sound with just two computer speakers...blah blah blah..." typical of people who dont like something, just jump on the band wagon about what sounds good. People hear different things from sound systems, I have had many sound systems, i like this one the best, it sounds great. I have a friend with a polk audio system with a velodyn sub, the system is all bass. I know what it should be, a good range of every frequency, from the low end to the high end of the audio spectrum. show me the evidence that the bose systems dont perform with the full range of frequency. I cannot speak for the htib people, just the speakers that i have bought, which are not part of the htib. as far as bass is concerned, my yamaha has an auto adjust mic that allows the system to self test and adjust the system, and i keep getting the to much bass error. so bass is not a problem. the system never cuts out, or pops or anything abnormal. i played the opening scene to top gun last night, and it sounded like a jet in my living room, and since i am a naval aviator, i would know what that sounds like. so all the bose bashing in my opinion is crap, just people not liking things because they think how could they possibly be as good whenever they are so small. I can already hear the comments coming back from this post, about how i suck and so does bose, maybe the bose systems you have heard are poorly set up, maybe you are listening with a biased opinion. who knows, i know what i have heard in my home over the years and i know that my system sounds great.

That's great. What were some of the other sound systems you had before you went the Bose route?

byrneij,

Re using the 901/201s. I understand your situation. Was there myself some 5 or 6 years ago. Seemed totally logical to use the 901s I had then as the basis of a ‘new’ HT system. Fortunately (and I mean that genuinely in retrospect), I couldn’t find a way to easily connect the equalisation into a surround system. It forced me to go and listen to other systems and speakers. I haven’t looked back. Truth is, the 901s (not talking lifestyle) can sound quite reasonable if properly set up and one hasn’t critically listened to something else. But once you have heard really good imaging and detail, you have to move on.

My suggestion is to sell your speakers on ebay and put the money towards the new system. Depending on your needs, it could be something basic or it could be the start of something big. :) Bose gear gets quite good prices so be thankful that there are people out there that do like it. For the new system, you don’t have to buy it all at once. Go and listen to a few options. There will be plenty of advice available from forum members on how best to build up a good system.

byrneij,


My suggestion is to sell your speakers on ebay and put the money towards the new system. Depending on your needs, it could be something basic or it could be the start of something big. :) Bose gear gets quite good prices so be thankful that there are people out there that do like it. For the new system, you don’t have to buy it all at once. Go and listen to a few options. There will be plenty of advice available from forum members on how best to build up a good system.
..To those of you for the advice. I have been convinced; I am moving out the Bose speakers and going with a new set. Now I need to whittle down the options in the $1K range that Edster recommended. Unfortunately I live in a remote area and dropping in to stereo stores to compare models is not so easy.

I know, I am sure there will be the typical response, "oh you could have all that sound with just two computer speakers...blah blah blah..." typical of people who dont like something, just jump on the band wagon about what sounds good.

If you're a naval aviator, then you're a pretty sharp guy. So let me ask you a question: What exactly do we "bose bashers" get out of deterring people from spending (which in this case is a euphemism for "wasting") their hard earned money on Bose? Does what you purchase have any impact on MY system? Why exactly would I care what you buy?

As has been said over and over, people come here to ADVANCE their knowledge of this hobby, and hopefully find solutions to their respective audio/video needs. People who try and persuade others to look at some alternatives to Bose (i.e. systems that offer smaller speakers and/or ease of use) are simply trying to help. Whether you want to believe that or not, it's the truth. We don't want to see people buy bose because we know there are better alternatives...plain and simple.

I can't believe this thread has survived for 3+ years! You'd think we were talking politics (which isn't too far from the truth for audiophiles)! I am slightly ashamed (but not quite since I bought them when I was in my ealry 20's, so that makes me blameless, doesn't it?) for owning a pair of 201s. I have to say though, for hanging in our bedroom (they are supsended from the ceiling to save space for sit-a-bouts (can you tell I'm married?)), along with using an OOOOLLLDDDD pair of Cambridge 17's (it could be them I hear that sound so good), they do what I might consider as decent for pornos in bed (I'm absolutely kidding by the way!) I mean movies (we have been trying to catch up on the "24" series which doesn't require much more than a boom box to cover the sound) and the occasional music. I would not put them where company might see (or hear) them though!

Just my 2 cents worth, everything has it's place, and everone has to put their pair of Bose somewhere!

they do what I might consider as decent for pornos in bed


LOL!

By the way, '24' is some of the best tv I've ever seen. I'd not seen a single episode until about a month ago. I finally gave in, rented disc 1 of season 1, and now I'm up to date and watching the re-broadcast of season 5 on Fox :D

..To those of you for the advice. I have been convinced; I am moving out the Bose speakers and going with a new set. Now I need to whittle down the options in the $1K range that Edster recommended. Unfortunately I live in a remote area and dropping in to stereo stores to compare models is not so easy.

If you want to go with the Ascends, I would go with CBM-170 SE front pr + CMT-340 SE center + VTF-2 MK2 sub= $1,108.00 + $65 shipping. (a little over your $1k range) I would move your bose to the back as surrounds. When you have more money, get the 340 mains and move the 170s to surround duty. I highly recommend you give the Ascends a try.

I have just installed my new Panny 50"500U plasma and now need to complete my surround system. I have a Rotel stereo system and have inherited two Bose 901's ( that I will use for the front speakers) and two Bose 201's (for the rear). I need to complete the system by purchasing a sub and a center speaker. What do you recommend? Please no Bose-bashers; I have these speakers already and it is pointless to throw them away.
I agree with lpm. You don't have to throw your old Bose speakers away. Put them up on EBay and see if a sucker will take them. Then use those funds plus whateve extra $ you may be willing to shell out for speakers and get a worthy 5.1 or 7.1 speaker system. Good luck. :cool:

LOL!

By the way, '24' is some of the best tv I've ever seen. I'd not seen a single episode until about a month ago. I finally gave in, rented disc 1 of season 1, and now I'm up to date and watching the re-broadcast of season 5 on Fox :D
I agree; "24" rocks. I've been watching it since Nov. 2001 (Season 1). Wow, you've been watching one season per week! :eek: :)

I agree; "24" rocks. I've been watching it since Nov. 2001 (Season 1). Wow, you've been watching one season per week! :eek: :)

I know :o It's almost embarrassing to admit it, too, but anyone who's seen the show can probably understand the fact that I just HAD to see what was going to happen next! lol I have been a satisfied Netflix customer for over four years now, but even they weren't fast enough.....I set foot in a Hollywood Video for the first time in years since they had them in stock, lol. The damn show is addicting!

If you want to go with the Ascends, I would go with CBM-170 SE front pr + CMT-340 SE center + VTF-2 MK2 sub= $1,108.00 + $65 shipping. (a little over your $1k range) I would move your bose to the back as surrounds. When you have more money, get the 340 mains and move the 170s to surround duty. I highly recommend you give the Ascends a try.
This setups makes the most sense & is a common recommendation in this thread. I have some questions:

1) Is there a big difference in sound between the 170's and the 200's
2) Is this Ascend configuration superior to the SVS?
3) Is it worth the extra $$ compared to the Onix xl-s 5.1 system (that also looks great)?
4) The 340 center speaker looks huge. My 500U plasma sits on a TV stand. i am not able to mount the center speaker on the wall above the plasma and I doubt there is space underneath the stand. What options are there to position the 340 center speaker?

The center will fit in front of my 50'' 60u. The speaker is 7.5''. Are you sure it won't fit?

The center will fit in front of my 50'' 60u. The speaker is 7.5''. Are you sure it won't fit?
I have looked at the measurements although i do not physically have the speaker in hand to test. You have the duck-feet stand on the 50U which could probably accomodate the speaker in the space between the feet. On my 500U, I have the oval shaped stand which angles out & down from the midle towards the front and there is little space left in the front to accomodate the speaker. I may be able to balance it on the front of the oval base but it will angle downwards and may hang over the front of the tv stand.

This setups makes the most sense & is a common recommendation in this thread. I have some questions:

1) Is there a big difference in sound between the 170's and the 200's

there is little to no difference in sound but the 170's will play louder, sound fuller, and smoother. For me, I would pick the 170s because I dont want to be left thinking what I'm missing something. You gotta take into consideration that the mains are one of the most important part of any system.

2) Is this Ascend configuration superior to the SVS?

superior in terms of what? Both systems will be great for movies, but for music it comes down to personal taste. The higher model Ascends (dont kill me if Im wrong), I think would have better specs. The Ascends are neutral and revealing speakers so what ever source you throw at it, thats what comes out. Good recordings will sound amazing. if you like 2 channel music, the the 340 mains are the way to go, but from what I heard the 170s sound really good with the sub on. i dont know how the svs systems sound with 2 channel music.
3) Is it worth the extra $$ compared to the Onix xl-s 5.1 system (that also looks great)?

Again, this comes down to comparing the 2 system. I can only tell you the Ascends side. For me, I would not trade my 340s for the Onix since I've been so impress with its performance. Now, my if I heard the Onix system, I might change my mind but I doubt it though.

4) The 340 center speaker looks huge. My 500U plasma sits on a TV stand. i am not able to mount the center speaker on the wall above the plasma and I doubt there is space underneath the stand. What options are there to position the 340 center speaker?

Considering the center produces most of the sound in HT, the general consensous is the bigger the better. The 340 center is really something you should consider if you go the Ascend route. Clean, Clear, and Crisp- the 3 Cs to center speaker nirvana.
hope that helped!

What does "plays 1/2 octave lower" mean? I kept hearing that on a Bose commercial. Lower than what? Lower than it's supposed to sound?

WHAT DOES THAT MEAN?

Getting back to the OP's question: Why not Bose? Because they suck, that's why not!

Lower than their previous model.

i am considering getting a surround sound system for my house towards the end of the year. i don't want a HTIB. i want to buy the speakers and recevier and dvd player seperately.

i know that the majority of people here don't like bose, but my question to all you anti-bose people is the following:

i want a system that looks like the Acoustimass 10 Series IV. I want small speakers that come in white.

what do you guys recommend?

i am considering getting a surround sound system for my house towards the end of the year. i don't want a HTIB. i want to buy the speakers and recevier and dvd player seperately.

i know that the majority of people here don't like bose, but my question to all you anti-bose people is the following:

i want a system that looks like the Acoustimass 10 Series IV. I want small speakers that come in white.

what do you guys recommend?

I think you can get the Orb Audio Mod1s in white, check their website.

Why Not Bose?

Because bose speakers sound like what a straining man on a toilet produces...

I think you can get the Orb Audio Mod1s in white, check their website.

Edster, did your Orbs come in yet?

Yeah, Orb Mod1 and Mod2s do come in white, and they blend in pretty well if you have white walls, but they don't really look like AM10s. If you like the cube satellite look, there's the HSU VT-12, but those don't come in white, and its center channel is much bigger.

I think you can get the Orb Audio Mod1s in white, check their website.


those look pretty good. they are pretty much what i am looking for.

thanks for the advice. :)

Edster, did your Orbs come in yet?

Yeah, Orb Mod1 and Mod2s do come in white, and they blend in pretty well if you have white walls, but they don't really look like AM10s. If you like the cube satellite look, there's the HSU VT-12, but those don't come in white, and its center channel is much bigger.

No, I was just about to pull the trigger last week but had to hold off a few days until my check to the CC company cleared. Will order it today or tomorrow.

those look pretty good. they are pretty much what i am looking for.

thanks for the advice. :)

You're welcome. I'm basing that advice entirely on what a core group of Orb owners around here have been saying, I have not actually heard these speakers yet---hopefully will in a week or two though. In any case I find the claims that the Orbs far outperform the Bose sats very easy to believe.

btw, if you are willing to get something just a bit larger (11" x 6.5" x 6.375"), these can be ordered in white (click on "Finish Options" on the left menu) and having heard them myself I can definitely vouch for their excellence:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/htm200/htm200.html

You're welcome. I'm basing that advice entirely on what a core group of Orb owners around here have been saying, I have not actually heard these speakers yet---hopefully will in a week or two though. In any case I find the claims that the Orbs far outperform the Bose sats very easy to believe.

btw, if you are willing to get something just a bit larger (11" x 6.5" x 6.375"), these can be ordered in white (click on "Finish Options" on the left menu) and having heard them myself I can definitely vouch for their excellence:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/htm200/htm200.html

those are a little larger than what i wanted. please post your review here of the orbs when you get them. i am interested in knowing what you think of them.

Why not bose...

Because I would never try to sell you a Kia Rio at a BMW M3s price/performance...and tell you it's the best thing you've ever driven.

That's why not Bose.

..but if you like Bose...I'll sell you the car to go along with it! ;) :p

Nice nick btw, I have a pewter TA myself 2000 :)

Im looking in to buy a new surround set. I(like many others) was impressed by Bose 321 system until I read all these anti Bose forums and found out why not to buy Bose.

But I really would like to get a 3.1 system. Is this recommended at all for good sound quality? If so which brand is reliable in sound and duriblity? JVC for example I absloutely do not want, everything breaks on their systems.

And if 3.1 systems arent recommended at all, are there good 5.1 systems that arent so huge size wise.

Im thinking about spending around 1k for the set, does anybody have recommendations?

Im looking in to buy a new surround set. I(like many others) was impressed by Bose 321 system until I read all these anti Bose forums and found out why not to buy Bose.

But I really would like to get a 3.1 system. Is this recommended at all for good sound quality? If so which brand is reliable in sound and duriblity? JVC for example I absloutely do not want, everything breaks on their systems.

And if 3.1 systems arent recommended at all, are there good 5.1 systems that arent so huge size wise.

Im thinking about spending around 1k for the set, does anybody have recommendations?

room size?

% HT to music use?

taste in movies (action/thrillers vs. drama/comedy/alternative/foreign)?

do you already have a DVD/CD player?

Im looking in to buy a new surround set. I(like many others) was impressed by Bose 321 system until I read all these anti Bose forums and found out why not to buy Bose.

But I really would like to get a 3.1 system. Is this recommended at all for good sound quality? If so which brand is reliable in sound and duriblity? JVC for example I absloutely do not want, everything breaks on their systems.

And if 3.1 systems arent recommended at all, are there good 5.1 systems that arent so huge size wise.

Im thinking about spending around 1k for the set, does anybody have recommendations?

Goldmine20: what kind of music do you like????

room size?

% HT to music use?

taste in movies (action/thrillers vs. drama/comedy/alternative/foreign)?

do you already have a DVD/CD player?


The area is about 200 sq. feet (4x5 m).
I watch any genre movies, but mostly action. I listen a lot of music on it, from classic to rock, Yes I have a dvd player, but i want to get rid of it because it doesnt have a dvd burner.

I went to a store the other day and saw a Pioneer RCS 505 home cinema system for 1k. Decent or not?

The area is about 200 sq. feet (4x5 m).
I watch any genre movies, but mostly action. I listen a lot of music on it, from classic to rock, Yes I have a dvd player, but i want to get rid of it because it doesnt have a dvd burner.

I went to a store the other day and saw a Pioneer RCS 505 home cinema system for 1k. Decent or not?

No, you can do much better for $1K than that. Especially with the subwoofer which is essential for action movies.

This is what I'd get:

Athena AS-B1.2s 2 pairs, AS-C1.2 center, $380 from audioadvisor.com
Marantz sr5400, $330 from accessories4less.com
Hsu STF-2 b-stock, $350 shipped from hsuresearch.com (call for availability)

^ What edster suggests for Goldmine would definitely be a Bose killer. :cool:

But I still get paranoid about mixing and matching satellites and subwoofer from different companies. For example, in this case, Athena and Hsu. I'd feel more comfortable getting the Athena subwoofer or Hsu's satellites.

But I still get paranoid about mixing and matching satellites and subwoofer from different companies. For example, in this case, Athena and Hsu. I'd feel more comfortable getting the Athena subwoofer or Hsu's satellites.

Really no need to be.

There only 2 instances where speakers/sats need to be matched with the sub:

1. Your sats only play down to maybe 150-200Hz, so you need a sub that can go up to 150-200Hz. The Orbs are a good example of this---they specifically told me not to match their sats with my Mirage S12, but a smaller 8 inch sub like a Hsu STF-1 or their own Super8 would be fine.

2. You have some extremely quick music speakers, for example Magnepans, which need an extremely quick musical sub, preferably a sealed design.

The Athena B1s fall squarely into the majority case since they go down to 60Hz, so they can go with just about any sub.

Cool, Ive been checking this stuff out you guys have been advising me and it looks great, but...

For me personally its just really to big. I love great sound, but I just cant blend in those huge speakers in my house.

So I looked around a bit.

I bumped into the Hsu Ventriloquist VT-12 on the Hsu site. My first impression is great because of its size,(important to me), I read some reviews (also on other sites) about it and it sounds possitive.

Would it be a good one to get the Hsu subwoofer and this Ventr. set seeing the fact that I want small?

Really no need to be.

There only 2 instances where speakers/sats need to be matched with the sub:

1. Your sats only play down to maybe 150-200Hz, so you need a sub that can go up to 150-200Hz. The Orbs are a good example of this---they specifically told me not to match their sats with my Mirage S12, but a smaller 8 inch sub like a Hsu STF-1 or their own Super8 would be fine.

2. You have some extremely quick music speakers, for example Magnepans, which need an extremely quick musical sub, preferably a sealed design.

The Athena B1s fall squarely into the majority case since they go down to 60Hz, so they can go with just about any sub.
I see what you're saying. So as long as the satellite speakers or the subwoofer does not have "extreme" specs or limitations, such as the examples you mentioned, then it's OK to mix-and-match. I remember reading several years ago that for floor-standing speakers, it's important to buy a set from the same brand, so that the center, front sides, and rear speakers "match" in tone, timber, audio "color", volume/strength, etc. But I guess in the sat+sub model, that's not as important as it once was.

:mad: I think gear made these days sound like CRAP and the only company putting out GOOD SOUNDING gear is BOSE! :)

I remember reading several years ago that for floor-standing speakers, it's important to buy a set from the same brand, so that the center, front sides, and rear speakers "match" in tone, timber, audio "color", volume/strength, etc. But I guess in the sat+sub model, that's not as important as it once was.

I do believe in matching the front 3 speakers, since that's about 90% of HT output right there but IMO the surrounds do not need to be matched at all UNLESS you plan on doing a lot of multichannel music listening. People who insist that they do need to be matched are usually speaker salesmen or extremely anal about that 10% of HT info that surrounds handle.

I do believe in matching the front 3 speakers, since that's about 90% of HT output right there but IMO the surrounds do not need to be matched at all UNLESS you plan on doing a lot of multichannel music listening. People who insist that they do need to be matched are usually speaker salesmen or extremely anal about that 10% of HT info that surrounds handle.
I see. The next time I go to an HTS store (and not a big retail store such as BB or CC), I'll have to play around w/ a matched set vs. mixed-brand front and rear and sub w/ the A, B, C, etc. buttons they usually have. Since I'm new to TX now, I'll have to find such a dedicated HTS store.

I see. The next time I go to an HTS store (and not a big retail store such as BB or CC), I'll have to play around w/ a matched set vs. mixed-brand front and rear and sub w/ the A, B, C, etc. buttons they usually have. Since I'm new to TX now, I'll have to find such a dedicated HTS store.

Great idea. Make sure you do so with a movie DVD, not a music CD that's been matrixed into surround.

Great idea. Make sure you do so with a movie DVD, not a music CD that's been matrixed into surround.
Will do - I'll bring my "Matrix" DVD and play Chap. 29 (Lobby Shooting Spree). :cool:

I do believe in matching the front 3 speakers, since that's about 90% of HT output right there but IMO the surrounds do not need to be matched at all UNLESS you plan on doing a lot of multichannel music listening. People who insist that they do need to be matched are usually speaker salesmen or extremely anal about that 10% of HT info that surrounds handle.

When front to rear pans occur (more often than you think) or things spin around the room, I like to have smooth pans. If you believe that since surrounds are used so infrequently that you can shortchange yourself there, good for you, but it is in PRECISELY these parts of the movies where a great surround system will distinguish itself from an average or mediocre one. When the surrounds ARE ON is when surrounds are important and when most of the really cool parts of the movie are happening and when you are trying to enjoy every detail. Yes they are only used 10% of the time, THE IMPORTANT 10%.

:mad: I think gear made these days sound like CRAP and the only company putting out GOOD SOUNDING gear is BOSE! :)
:p I giggled

I dont really have time to go through all these but how come I never really hear anything about definitive techs? You can get a ProCinema 60 System for about $700 and a Denon reciever for about $500 and it will blow away any Bose Lifestyle sytem and they look way better too.

I kept pretty frustrated when I hear of all these luxury cars offering their "premium" audio systems that are Bose. :mad:

At least Lexus offers the Mark Levinson system. Hopefully others will follow that trend to go non-Bose for high-end stock car audio systems.

Many of the luxery cars I drive have harman audio sound systems, in all honesty, pretty much all fo them suck.

Beowulf,

Luxury and other cars are starting to offer other alternatives to Bose and Harman Kardon. Audi is offering Bang & Olufsen systems in some models. VW has Dynaudio systems in several cars. Others, will, I am sure, follow.

The problem with cars is, that people hear BOSE and start to wet themselves /: The perception of a good product is inherent in that name, and most car buyers aren't the most discriminating when it comes to audio.

Not to mention, how many people really audition audio in a car like they do in a home... Especially since if you want to be really accurate, you need to be generating road noise, etc.

I agree w/ you guys. Some high-end cars do offer a (usually better) alternative to Bose and kudos to them. But it's true that many upper class car buyers think Bose is the best when it comes to audio and car makers' marketing folks will happily continue going along w/ that misperception if they can make $ out of it. :(

I watched the DVD "Click" the other day. A funny dialogue occurred that reminded me of this thread. A kid bragged to Adam Sandler's character that "my Dad's stereo is a Bose." Sandler's character pretended to mishear him and asked, "What? Your Dad's stereo blows? Well that's too bad!" as he drove off. :D

Beowulf,

Luxury and other cars are starting to offer other alternatives to Bose and Harman Kardon. Audi is offering Bang & Olufsen systems in some models. VW has Dynaudio systems in several cars. Others, will, I am sure, follow.

FWIW, Lexus offers an optional Mark Levinson 11-speaker Premium Audio System on some of their models. I have heard one and it is sweet.

FWIW, Lexus offers an optional Mark Levinson 11-speaker Premium Audio System on some of their models. I have heard one and it is sweet.
That is a good deal in light of the fact that a Mark Levinson home stereo system costs more than a Lexus. :p

bose are ****, worked for them for 4 years & their products are ****, more customer returns than sales every year. keep away

I'm not an audiophile, but I must preface this with I do work for an audio speaker manufature and have seem a few different systems. I won't say which one as not to advertise, but I can dare say many of you have heard of it.

Most non experienced consumers have never heard a really good system and so they don't know the difference. It's like when I was using a 650mhz computer back in the day. That seemed really fast. Not if I were to go back and use that machine I'm sure it would seem really slow. Or I guess you could also compare it to DSL 256 versus what is available now.

Once you get a taste many people can tell a difference, but yet still don't care. Part of it is passion for the hobby.

There is a flip side also. Many think the more expensive the system the better they sound. Not always true in my opinion. For instance. I've heard 15k systesm which didn't seem to work better then some systems under 5k.

Every speaker company claims to have the best. In the end I let my ears do the arguing for me. If it sounds life like to me I tend to enjoy the sound they produce. Of course money is always so choose wisely.

What was sad was that my brother in law this christmas was given a really nice set of noise cancellation headphones, Sennheiser PXC 300s, his father wanted to get him something nice and knew that he wanted some headphones for the airplane and did alot of research and found that these were what he thought were the best for his sons need....his son made no indication that he wanted one brand over another...well when he opened them his first reaction was "oh, no bose?" and I watched as his father tried to explain for a good amount of time as to why he bought those instead of the Bose...the research he did and everything...I think I heard Bose mentioned at least twenty times in the explanation....it wasn't until they asked me (tried to stay out of it) that I chimed in and said that what he got were really good and he should be happy...but he is a brand status type person so it doesn't surprise me, but it just shows how powerful the blose marketing machine is...this kid had never heard of Sennheiser and thought it was junk wheras he assumed the Blose was top quality having never heard either.

I have an 04' BMW with the Harman Kardon system and I'm not very impressed at all. When listening to mellow music at low levels it's not bad but if you want to crank it up you can forget about it! The bass is weak and basically non-existent. :mad:

I have an 04' BMW with the Harman Kardon system and I'm not very impressed at all. When listening to mellow music at low levels it's not bad but if you want to crank it up you can forget about it! The bass is weak and basically non-existent. :mad:
That's too bad. Why did you revive a Bose thread to talk about your car's HK system? :confused: In general, stock sound systems are far inferior to what the after market can offer.

That's too bad. Why did you revive a Bose thread to talk about your car's HK system? :confused: In general, stock sound systems are far inferior to what the after market can offer.

Perhaps he wanted everyone to know that he has a BMW 04' :eek:

I saw this thread's title and thought. "uh oh. time to take a chair, sit back, and watch the Bose flaming" :D

Looks like it's an old thread though.

In case anyone cares, my current crappy (and dying) Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 sound system ($350) sounds just as good as (if not better) than my parent's Bose Accoustimass 10 system. They only paid $900-$1000 for it because they didn't get the overpriced "lifestyle" thing (the thing that looks like a white PS3), but those are still the same speakers that they sold with the $3000 lifestyle setups 7 years ago.

Just wait until I upgrade to HTD Level 2 5.1/ HSU VTF-2 MkIII and compare them... :D

I still can't believe how badly Crutchfield pimps Bose, and yet they want to consider themselves an e-tailer of high-end audio. :rolleyes:

People like to hate any big company. These speakers are not as bad as people put them out to be. But there not mind blowing amazing like bose markets them.

People like to hate any big company. These speakers are not as bad as people put them out to be. But there not mind blowing amazing like bose markets them.

You're right, they sound almost as good as many $500 HTiB systems I have heard. The only problem is that the Bose costs many times that amount...

Just wait until I upgrade to HTD Level 2 5.1/ HSU VTF-2 MkIII and compare them... :D

I think you're being totally unfair; your going to compare one system, yours, that's meant to sound well, against another system, Bose, that's meant to look cool, on the basis of sound quality. That's like comparing a Vette with a minivan on the basis of handling.
Bose is an easy mark IMO, because they don't try to build the great sounding speakers, just audio gear that fills a niche, is stylish with great name recognition. Overpricing is part of the "panache" that keeps them exclusive in the eyes of Bose..ozes.

People like to hate any big company. These speakers are not as bad as people put them out to be. But there not mind blowing amazing like bose markets them.

Why do you think people hate Bose? Is it just because they are a big company? There are a lot of big companies on this site that are praised. Any reason YOU think companies like Bose and Monster are not liked by most posters here. Also Bose products sound pretty bad. They offer some other good qualities but for SQ they are pretty lousy.

Wait....I think I saw it still moving....

I agree. I dont know why I bother wasting my time.

Do people buy Ipods for unrivalled SQ at their pricepoint?

Do people buy Ipods for unrivalled SQ at their pricepoint?

No, but people in the know consider other options like the Zen...just picked up a 30 gb for nearly $100 less than a comparable IPod, does divix video and has a built in FM tuner.

Do people buy Ipods for unrivalled SQ at their pricepoint?
I hope not. I love my IPod, but I sure didn't buy it for SQ. I can take about four months of music with me (24/7 non-stop), come home and drop it in a wall dock and get whole house audio, and even watch movie trailers and other video on my plasma. That's why I bought an IPod - nothing to do with sound quality. But I thought this was a Bose thread?

I love my Bose, but I sure didn't buy it for SQ. I bought it for admiration and acceptance by the uninformed public. I can carry it with me wherever I go (24/7 non-stop), come home and just drop the speakers on the floor, down the stairs, out the window, etc. without worrying about making them any worse sounding. I can watch Bose commercials (or other informercials if I like) on my plasma and then take the whole thing into my car and enjoy them while I'm driving. You should've seen the look on the cop's face yesterday when he saw my neat idea of a windshield plasma dock and Bose cubes in place of headlights. He was following me for miles trying to get a good look at it! That's why I bought Bose speakers - nothing to so with sound quality. But I thought everyone knew that?
:D

(I'm not trying to attack your post SimpleTheater; it's just an opportunistic joke thingy)

Speaking of Bose commercials, has anyone noticed how they sound worse than run-of-the-mill commercials?

Do people buy Ipods for unrivalled SQ at their pricepoint?

Nope. Their sound is acceptable, but there are other personal players out there that sound better. Creative Zen, Panasonic, Sony... for example. The IPOD offers convenience for folks that have limited computer skills because it allows you to sync your music right out of Itunes. But like with their computers, Apple really needs to offer better sound options at a competitive price point. Apple is starting to do better with their computers, (options for video cards), but their sound board system is still in the dark ages.

No, but people in the know consider other options like the Zen...just picked up a 30 gb for nearly $100 less than a comparable IPod, does divix video and has a built in FM tuner.

Is the SQ any better ? How many accesories are made for it? How many manufacturers allow for it to be integrated with their much more complex systems?

I hope not. I love my IPod, but I sure didn't buy it for SQ. I can take about four months of music with me (24/7 non-stop), come home and drop it in a wall dock and get whole house audio, and even watch movie trailers and other video on my plasma. That's why I bought an IPod - nothing to do with sound quality. But I thought this was a Bose thread?

It is , my point was (which you helped me make nicely) that there are reasons people buy audio equipment outside of SQand reasons that they may spend more on something that may not sound better.

Why do you think people hate Bose? Is it just because they are a big company? There are a lot of big companies on this site that are praised. Any reason YOU think companies like Bose and Monster are not liked by most posters here. Also Bose products sound pretty bad. They offer some other good qualities but for SQ they are pretty lousy.

I don't think the animosity has anything to do with Bose being a large company. I believe it has to do with consumer's opinion that Bose has long stopped trying to develop and put out quality speaker products, and rely instead on marketing gimmicks to sell speakers. They are not absolute junk... but for the price that they ask for their speakers, you could get speaker systems 5 times better, and then some. A lot of what they try to claim is really insulting to a knowledgeable consumer.

Is the SQ any better ? How many accesories are made for it? How many manufacturers allow for it to be integrated with their much more complex systems?

You have far more options with other brands than you do IPOD, though IPOD certainly has a good marketing system for auxiliary devices. IPOD does have some products made for them, but their music format is entirely too restrictive. Other manufacturer's devices allow you more options and liberty to download music from other sources other than Itunes. Itunes doesn't even allow you to convert the downloaded music from IPOD's music format to MP3 so you can play it in another device other than an IPOD, which is an inconvenience that keeps me from downloading music from their site to an absolute minimum.



It is , my point was (which you helped me make nicely) that there are reasons people buy audio equipment outside of SQand reasons that they may spend more on something that may not sound better.

There are many options to consider when purchasing a portable player. But my experience interacting with other users is that they are not likely to compromise as much on SQ as they do on other features. Short term you may consider it. But after a little while of listening to a lousy quality SQ device, you are going to start looking for something that will provide good SQ. It is a natural tendency for people that are attracted to listening to music. They care for and place a high emphasis on the SQ.

It is , my point was (which you helped me make nicely) that there are reasons people buy audio equipment outside of SQand reasons that they may spend more on something that may not sound better.
Exactly right. I like the IPod for its versatility and huge amount of 3rd party products available for integration in almost any environment. When I want sound quality, I go to my dedicated room, put in a CD/DVD-A and listen through my PSB Image speakers. SQ is low on the list when I'm cooking and talking to friends - its about versatility then not SQ.

Enough of IPods. Let's talk about Bose. :p

I don't think the animosity has anything to do with Bose being a large company. I believe it has to do with consumer's opinion that Bose has long stopped trying to develop and put out quality speaker products, and rely instead on marketing gimmicks to sell speakers. They are not absolute junk... but for the price that they ask for their speakers, you could get speaker systems 5 times better, and then some. A lot of what they try to claim is really insulting to a knowledgeable consumer.

All tiny satelitte speakers are an SQ compromise, so we are left asking ourselves whether the Bose such that much more than the Mirage nanos suck? Small size isn't a gimmick , it's a feature, one that many here don't care about, but you must understand we are also not the normal consumer. Most people are perfectly satisfied with the sound of their Ipod and their factory car radio.

You have far more options with other brands than you do IPOD, though IPOD certainly has a good marketing system for auxiliary devices. IPOD does have some products made for them, but their music format is entirely too restrictive. Other manufacturer's devices allow you more options and liberty to download music from other sources other than Itunes. Itunes doesn't even allow you to convert the downloaded music from IPOD's music format to MP3 so you can play it in another device other than an IPOD, which is an inconvenience that keeps me from downloading music from their site to an absolute minimum.

I own a Philips portable that also allows me to record digital or analog in by jacking the little devil directly in to gear (it does the compression directly and I don't even need a computer). I also own , however, an Ipod as Crestron, Escient , Speakercraft , and Niles systems have docks that allow the ipod to be directly tied in and they then can emulate, or improve upon and incorporate, the ipods meta data into 2-way controlers throughout one's house. Understand, while you and I are looking to get music from many other places and media, most could care less and have most everything from Itunes , and they know a dozen differant people who they can get help with when it comes to an Ipod/Itunes question, when you start telling them about all the other software for streaming , compression , and storage/retrival, you loose them and their dozen friends as they are unwilling to invest the time to explore and learn all about that as they are very pleased with Itunes.

But my experience interacting with other users is that they are not likely to compromise as much on SQ as they do on other features. Short term you may consider it. But after a little while of listening to a lousy quality SQ device, you are going to start looking for something that will provide good SQ. It is a natural tendency for people that are attracted to listening to music. They care for and place a high emphasis on the SQ.

You are a statistical anomalie , as most people care so little that they are unwilling to trade storage space for SQ by using a lossless compression scheme rather than 96 or 128.
Look at all the music stored digitally in peoples portables and computers, what compression schemes are most often used? The worst ones! Done in order to maximize space or because people downloaded from a person with dial-up speed.

All tiny satelitte speakers are an SQ compromise, so we are left asking ourselves whether the Bose such that much more than the Mirage nanos suck? Small size isn't a gimmick , it's a feature, one that many here don't care about, but you must understand we are also not the normal consumer. Most people are perfectly satisfied with the sound of their Ipod and their factory car radio.

Size isn't the only factor that I was referring to. I agree... if size was a gimmick, we wouldn't have the Mirage or the Quintets. Bose also likes to advertise the waveguide technology for their bass units and desktop CDs like it was a revolutionary new technology of their own. The physics and the principles have been around for some time. And you can find better sound in a small package elsewhere, IMO, specially for the small ransom that Bose wants for their systems.


You are a statistical anomalie , as most people care so little that they are unwilling to trade storage space for SQ by using a lossless compression scheme rather than 96 or 128.
Look at all the music stored digitally in peoples portables and computers, what compression schemes are most often used? The worst ones! Done in order to maximize space or because people downloaded from a person with dial-up speed.


You could have a point there that I would have to concede... the only music that I have encoded at 128kbps is the stuff downloaded from the Itunes site, and the only reason thats the case is because that is the only bit rate available from Itunes. Things that I purchase elsewhere or rip from my CDs are at least 224kbps for portable MP3 player applications or 320kbps to copy to a CD for the house or the truck, (though quite a bit is at 224kbps VR). The difference is very noticeable from 128kbps to even 190kbps. 128kbps quality to me is a compromise to consider only when you have no other viable choice, and then I consider it very reluctantly. I use Itunes very sparingly for that reason, and because you can not convert music that you purchase on Itunes very easily from the apple format to MP3 so that I can use it with my non Apple systems.

I have the utmost admiration for Bose as a company. Despite all the negative comments here in this thread and in other areas in the web, they make money. I for one will definitely buy their stocks. They show good business acumen and looks like they will be profitable in the years to come and that means that they will stay around longer than any other speaker companies and still make a profit.
Other companies might make far superior speakers, but they eventually went out of business and didn't survive in the long run.
If Bose can make crappy speakers and sell it at very fat margins, and still get repeat customers, all the power to them. They're laughing all the way to the bank.

I'll make Bose my fav company to emulate when I next start up my new biz, how to make crappy products with low cost materials and charge premium pricing for it and survive in the long run. Now that's a biz model we should all emulate. Remember, the public is always gullible, look at all those cosmetic products that says you can look younger and more radiant, ever wondered what it's actually made off ? Now that biz is one rung up on Bose.

I for one will definitely buy their stocks.

That's not the best decision. What you should be asking is if there will be any more interest in buying Bose than there has been in the past. I really don't think there is! The amount of cheap, yet acceptable audio equipment has increased, so fewer people are inclined to buy Bose. This is probably going to continue, so buying Bose stock will just lose you money. Also, last I checked, Bose is a private company!

Anyway, look what I found on hte Bose website:
At Bose, it's not enough just to know the standard acoustic theories and equations. Here, you've got to be comfortable without rules, because we've found that most of the rules of acoustics and psychoacoustics simply fall apart in real-world applications. As a result, much of your time will be spent breaking new ground. Part of your job will be to rely on your healthy curiosity to work on new product development. You'll also be encouraged to develop your own theories and ideas, and to pursue them to fruition—even if they have nothing to do with audio. If you like plenty of freedom in your job, you might be just the acoustic engineer we're seeking.
I think that pretty much sums up Bose. :)

The physics and the principles have been around for some time.
Well using physics isn't a gimic.

320kbps to copy to a CD for the house or the truck,
I use that or FLAC (VERY LITTLE that's more compressed than that), but many use Apple lossless and are very pleased.

much of your time will be spent breaking new ground. Part of your job will be to rely on your healthy curiosity to work on new product development. You'll also be encouraged to develop your own theories and ideas, and to pursue them to fruition—even if they have nothing to do with audio. If you like plenty of freedom in your job, you might be just the acoustic engineer we're seeking.

Seems that they are encouraging their engineers to think outside the box....such innovation, who'd have thought.

...and then Marketing will tell you what to build. :p

Hey, it worked so well with the little cubes, all the speaker companies started doing it. ;)

Well using physics isn't a gimic.

No... definitely not a gimmick... However, the principles and the technology has been around for some time in one form or another. It's hardly the innovation being claimed.


Seems that they are encouraging their engineers to think outside the box....such innovation, who'd have thought.

Good to hear, actually. Lets hope, for the consumer's sake, that principle is put into practice.

No... definitely not a gimmick... However, the principles and the technology has been around for some time in one form or another. It's hardly the innovation being claimed.

Hey, cr@ppy as it may be , who else is using a waveguide in a comporable system?

...and then Marketing will tell you what to build. :p
Reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon. :D

Is the SQ any better ? How many accesories are made for it? How many manufacturers allow for it to be integrated with their much more complex systems?


From all reports yes, the SQ is better, and from a personal observation standpoint in comparison to my wife's video Ipod the sound is superior, but then again it also depends on the source material.

As for accessories they are limited, but alas that is part of the price of being the second place finisher in terms of popularity, speaking for myself I really don't care as most everything I want is integrated into the player should I desire them and the common/most popular accessories are readily available.

However if more people were to "catch on" then one could only assume that peripherals out the wazoo would follow...here is hoping to more "educated" consumers.

All tiny satelitte speakers are an SQ compromise, so we are left asking ourselves whether the Bose (such) that much more than the Mirage nanos suck? Small size isn't a gimmick , it's a feature, one that many here don't care about, but you must understand we are also not the normal consumer.

Last I checked Mirage wasn't using bargain basement components in their construction....so while tiny satelitte speakers from a SQ standpoint are a compromise, build quality should not be...

I for one will definitely buy their stocks.
Well, you'll have to get in real good with Dr. Bose. Bose is and has been a private company for over 40 years and will likely stay that way until he dies (or steps down).
Anyway, I agree with you. Bose has taken on a different persona through the decades to one that is no longer in favor with audiophiles due to it's lack of high end innovation.
However, You have to admire Bose for it's absolutley brilliant marketing efforts that have given birth to a 6,000 employee organization hauling in almost $2B in revenue.
They have capitalized on a market segment of trendy, compact, user friendly HTIB systems that have reasonable performance for 90% of the public.
We are the 10%. We know that you can buy equal or better performance for a fraction of the cost of a Bose. Seriously, $4,000 for the lifesytle 48? Even Tommy, being Deaf, Dumb, and Blind would be able to feel the difference between that and four grand worth of high end audio equipment.
That doesn't diminish the fact that most bose systems will get the job done at the end of the day. Some people (and apparently a lot of people) don't want a lot of equipment taking up space and don't want to deal with often arrogant high end audio salespeople.
So quit hating on Bose and feel good knowing that you know better. :)

Well, you'll have to get in real good with Dr. Bose. Bose is and has been a private company for over 40 years and will likely stay that way until he dies (or steps down).
Anyway, I agree with you. Bose has taken on a different persona through the decades to one that is no longer in favor with audiophiles due to it's lack of high end innovation.
However, You have to admire Bose for it's absolutley brilliant marketing efforts that have given birth to a 6,000 employee organization hauling in almost $2B in revenue.
They have capitalized on a market segment of trendy, compact, user friendly HTIB systems that have reasonable performance for 90% of the public.
We are the 10%. We know that you can buy equal or better performance for a fraction of the cost of a Bose. Seriously, $4,000 for the lifesytle 48? Even Tommy, being Deaf, Dumb, and Blind would be able to feel the difference between that and four grand worth of high end audio equipment.
That doesn't diminish the fact that most bose systems will get the job done at the end of the day. Some people (and apparently a lot of people) don't want a lot of equipment taking up space and don't want to deal with often arrogant high end audio salespeople.
So quit hating on Bose and feel good knowing that you know better. :)

I think you hit the nail on the head.....that Bose does not try to appeal to that 10 % seems to upset that 10% immensely. That many people, and I would guess in the majority and maybe a few "audiophiles" can't even hear frequencies above 15K hz, and many of we over 60, 12k....makes reaching for that extended response, "mute". Pun intended. Style and name recognition are a big part of their persona....and I would argue, just as important to some in this 10 % who keep repeating their favorite brands, some of which are overpriced and over hyped as well, even given they are more accurate sound producers than a Bose speaker does not diminish they not living up to their own hype.
As I've stated before, style and name recognition may be as or more important as sound quality to Bose, which makes it difficult to compare and easy to criticize by owners of speakers that slight the importance of factors other than sound quality.
It's legitimate to point this out to people seeking advise, but not legitimate to constantly refer to Bose as "crap" no more than my old AR 2ax speakers resting in peace in the garage....which sound like crap by today's standards.
There's a large segment of the population that put style and name recognition at the top of their list over performance when buying an automobile; I suggest there are just as many in the AV world that do as well.

There's a large segment of the population that put style and name recognition at the top of their list over performance when buying an automobile; I suggest there are just as many in the AV world that do as well.

I agree - but don't expect to go into a high-performance car forum and ask: "What's wrong with Kia?" :p

I agree - but don't expect to go into a high-performance car forum and ask: "What's wrong with Kia?" :p

I hope there "would" be a place for the novice here to ask questions and get respectful answers....unless you consider this a "high performance" audio forum that's exclusive of IPod , Bose and Radio Shack equipment owners....is there a requirement that we own only pre approved audio gear that I wasn't aware of ?

With 68 post's it either sounds like. 1) you do have Bose and are trying to justify your purchase being a newbie and perhaps realizing something that you regret. 2) that after all your post's you you cannot reconcile to this fact and perhaps cannot own up to your regret honestly. 3) That you have not taken the time and effort to compare and truly judge for yourself the differences in sound reproduction available in speakers. 4) You just don't really care about the differences and doing real audio research.
What is in your system now? Electronics? Speakers? Etc.?
You say you are intimidated by all the choices and price ranges. Spend some time on this forum and countless others to perhaps get price range, listening characteristics, and most importantly go judge for yourself. This may take some time but you'll soon narrow it down and make decision. If it's Bose than so be it, if that's what you like than no one can say different. Just do some research, reading and listening and you'll have a good start. Good Luck!

Mike

Nope. Their sound is acceptable, but there are other personal players out there that sound better. Creative Zen, Panasonic, Sony... for example. The IPOD offers convenience for folks that have limited computer skills because it allows you to sync your music right out of Itunes. But like with their computers, Apple really needs to offer better sound options at a competitive price point. Apple is starting to do better with their computers, (options for video cards), but their sound board system is still in the dark ages.

they also need to bump itunes from 128. with so many fast connections and the low cost of storage these days they really need to go at least 320 and should offer apple lossless or something as an option. although still pretty compromised, even 192 is a vast improvement. itunes at 128 is pretty crappy, really is, they won't sound great no matter how great the HW you play them on. ipod shuffle gives decent quality if you only put raw wav (or perhaps 320 AAC on it).

I hope there "would" be a place for the novice here to ask questions and get respectful answers....unless you consider this a "high performance" audio forum that's exclusive of IPod , Bose and Radio Shack equipment owners....is there a requirement that we own only pre approved audio gear that I wasn't aware of ?

So, is there some acceptable way for a novice to be told that Bose is overpriced cr@p?

$$B$O$S$E$$$I$S$$$G$R$E$A$T$$$$$$$$$$$
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:D

they also need to bump itunes from 128. with so many fast connections and the low cost of storage these days they really need to go at least 320 and should offer apple lossless or something as an option. although still pretty compromised, even 192 is a vast improvement. itunes at 128 is pretty crappy, really is, they won't sound great no matter how great the HW you play them on. ipod shuffle gives decent quality if you only put raw wav (or perhaps 320 AAC on it).


Agree... At least to 192kbps. 128kbps is really very poor.

AND... they also need to make it easier for the consumer to convert the music to other formats. And I don't want to hear their crap about anti piracy requirements. In that respect, I feel the same way I feel about Microsoft's anti piracy program and Sony's ill fated anti piracy program. I am not willing to pay the price for YOUR company's business model laziness. I'd rather take my business elsewhere.

Agree... At least to 192kbps. 128kbps is really very poor.

AND... they also need to make it easier for the consumer to convert the music to other formats. And I don't want to hear their crap about anti piracy requirements. In that respect, I feel the same way I feel about Microsoft's anti piracy program and Sony's ill fated anti piracy program. I am not willing to pay the price for YOUR company's business model laziness. I'd rather take my business elsewhere.
I don't understand why everyone is upset with Apple's ITune anti-piracy DRM schemes. I have bought extremely few songs over the Internet, but when I do I don't buy them at ITunes - I will buy them at other web sites and then just add the files to ITunes. Everything works flawlessly and I don't have to worry about the nasty DRM scheme, or if I ever buy a non-IPod product (doubtful) I can transfer all my files without any concerns.

I'm not upset at all with anything MP3 that I wouldn't post on the appropriate forum. I'm just upset that I came here to respond in the SPEAKER forum and am reading about IPOD and Itunes and MP3 and such.
Do your tunes sound good on your Bose speakers ? If so what models do you have and why do they sound good to you? Perhaps you have Bose earbuds, if so how do they sound?
Say what?

So, is there some acceptable way for a novice to be told that Bose is overpriced cr@p?
Sure....."sir, there are better ways to spend the hard earned money you'll save by shopping around for something else...there's the lottery, investments". Say something with a little more panache.

I read it as Bose is the only speaker system that worked well for a person with a hearing disability??

Makes sense, seeing as it's frequency response tends to ignore the extremes, thus pushing whatever harmonics are involved to the middle of the range.

Makes sense, seeing as it's frequency response tends to ignore the extremes, thus pushing whatever harmonics are involved to the middle of the range.

That's marketing and engineering at it's fineist. Older people seldom hear much over 12 Khz, have their retirement earnings to blow, do not have the energy or the time to drive around auditioning speakers, or the strength to pick up anything very heavy.

I don't understand why everyone is upset with Apple's ITune anti-piracy DRM schemes. I have bought extremely few songs over the Internet, but when I do I don't buy them at ITunes - I will buy them at other web sites and then just add the files to ITunes. Everything works flawlessly and I don't have to worry about the nasty DRM scheme, or if I ever buy a non-IPod product (doubtful) I can transfer all my files without any concerns.


Sounds like you haven't had to put up with the pain of purchasing stuff from Itunes, Simple. Itunes is not a complete pain, in fact they make the actual search and download process simple. Now, putting those song on a non Apple device... that is an entirely different matter all together... it is a royal pain, and really not worth the trouble.

That's marketing and engineering at it's fineist. Older people seldom hear much over 12 Khz, have their retirement earnings to blow, do not have the energy or the time to drive around auditioning speakers, or the strength to pick up anything very heavy.

I wasn't agreeing with the practice, just explaining why he might like the sound over a conventional speaker.

I wasn't agreeing with the practice, just explaining why he might like the sound over a conventional speaker.
I might have sounded a little glib...but I do agree with you.

I might have sounded a little glib...but I do agree with you.

lol That's fine.

In reality though, it really isn't a bad practice if their demographics show that age group tends to like BOSE in a significant number such as to justify the practice.

It may also explain why they don't publish specs--why would they say "because we cater to people with hearing issues" :p

This may be the "research" they always tout.

lol That's fine.

In reality though, it really isn't a bad practice if their demographics show that age group tends to like BOSE in a significant number such as to justify the practice.

It may also explain why they don't publish specs--why would they say "because we cater to people with hearing issues" :p

This may be the "research" they always tout.

I really think you guys are on to something here - since Dr. Bose is as old as dirt, maybe they sound just fine to him...

I really think you guys are on to something here - since Dr. Bose is as old as dirt, maybe they sound just fine to him...

Remember BOSE is first and foremost a market research company, that happens to build some electronics. The goal of any such company is to find each individual segment and maximize sales within it. It makes total sense to market to older males, still worried about WAF, that have money and degraded hearing.

Remember BOSE is first and foremost a market research company, that happens to build some electronics. The goal of any such company is to find each individual segment and maximize sales within it. It makes total sense to market to older males, still worried about WAF, that have money and degraded hearing.

My son is a manager in the business at (no free publicity). According to him they are a very aware as you say. One thing he feels, they do is encourage rollover in their engineering staff. If you want advancement, move on....you'll get a good recommendation working for them and ultimately a better job somewhere else, he'll see to it for the good ones, but engineering cost at Bose have a ceiling. Advancement is elseware. Right or wrong, A. B. keeps the crew from becoming too "stagnant". The money is not made by selling to the 10 % here....it's the 90 % (including the older cliental) elsewhere. The ideal marriage of engineering and merchandising.

My son is a manager in the business at (no free publicity). According to him they are a very aware as you say. One thing he feels, they do is encourage rollover in their engineering staff. If you want advancement, move on....you'll get a good recommendation working for them and ultimately a better job somewhere else, he'll see to it for the good ones, but engineering cost at Bose have a ceiling. Advancement is elseware. Right or wrong, A. B. keeps the crew from becoming too "stagnant". The money is not made by selling to the 10 % here....it's the 90 % (including the older cliental) elsewhere. The ideal marriage of engineering and merchandising.

So it sounds as though the engineering side of his org is really a fulfillment detachment for their marketing department--not intended to develop new and better concepts like most. Interesting. Fits the BOSE mold to a T.

But then again it makes sense, when you consider the complete and total commoditization of the industry; you have to find a niche and push it to the limit to be noticed. Sad really. Good luck to your son--he's got a good position it sounds.

i've been reading this thread for quite some time now, and not without a bit of amusement. I can't believe how bias people can get sometimes just to prove their point.

I was in an electronics shop in central Tokyo yesterday and I was looking at some surround systems. They had everything from$500 Logitech 5.1 systems to $5000 B&W (per speaker). They also had a Bose sector, not being guarded off like some you of you had said. Having this thread in mind, I decided to have a look. I was impressed. They had a a 5.1 system on demonstration with speakers as small as box of sigs delivering very clean deep, clear and pleasing sound. Volume was not set that high and there was plenty of background nise, but it was still good.I know it won't play that good at high volume, but have any of you thought that high volume is not something they were designed for?

Maybe somebody wants a small theater in their not so spacious living room, or bed room. Is there a brand that can deliver that? Bose has leading technology when it comes to compact speakers, and that technology comes for a price, hence the hefty tag. Yes, you can get better speakers for that price, but it's not gonna be somethign that won't take away that precious space in your small quarters.

Not everyone, especially living in large cities has a benefit of having a theater room where they can fit high quality 3 way tower speakers to be played at hight volume without your neighbours trying to shoot you. I think that's were Bose comes into play.

Car stereos? There is much more to it that just speakers. Do you have good amp? head unit? I have 6 kenwood speaker system in my car, and I changed the head unit to clarion a few months ago, sound became a lot more deep and clean... i don't even need a sub to be honest. go figure...

At one point in time, due to this board and others, bose's supposed sound quality was why I hated bose (I still do, but for other reasons).

However, during one of my grad school courses (electromechanical transducers), we took a bose system and fully analyzed it. Drew up the electrical circuit equivilent of all the mechanical components (chambers, woofer characteristics, ports, etc etc), plotted the output, and what did we find? The bose system was VERY flat through the pass band.

We took it into our anechoic chamber on campus, hooked up the mic, and let her rip. The real life results were still very very good.

Now, my professor was an admitted anti-bose kinda guy. So I asked him, why do all the audiophiles hate bose so much when it puts up graphs like these? And he replied that you aren't paying for the sound quality with bose, you pay for the marketing and the hype and the perception among the non-audiophile community that bose = quality and is worth the money. And thats why he hates bose.

In short, Bose engineers are brilliant people who design very good systems. However, they price up their stuff up so much, that you can buy something for half the price that sounds equally as good.

The latest discussion about Bose has been much more enlightening.....and referring to other equipment as better alternatives seems more appropriate than calling them "crap". If I might mention another "no no" CU.....just to reinforce a point, often rates Bose speakers as good performers but I can't ever remember having seen them as recommended "good buys". They seem to agree....not worth the money given the many other good alternatives.

You know,

I am not really fan of Bose (at least with my hard-earned money). But enough with the bashing. Do you guys remember that Bose was founded by 4 MIT graduates?

Sometimes, I think this topic borders on being on MI.

People buy Bose for a variety of reasons. They have a great brand name, excellent marketing, great research and development. They are a great 'one-stop' place, where you really won't be confused by differing brand names, technologies and performance specs.

(I really don't want to name drop) But my family is really good friends ('family') with the former CEO of Bose. I had my Klipsch 2.1s hooked up to my computer and was listening to some music. They dropped by to visit our new baby, he looked at my Klipschs and said with a thoughtful smirk, "Well, they're good for what they are..." I was a little upset (did not show it), but that was his professional opinion.

I really wonder if some Bose engineers were on this board and challenged the veracity of some members arguments against them. How would the members react...

They had a a 5.1 system on demonstration with speakers as small as box of sigs delivering very clean deep, clear and pleasing sound. Volume was not set that high and there was plenty of background nise, but it was still good.I know it won't play that good at high volume, but have any of you thought that high volume is not something they were designed for?
For the kind of money Bose wants, they should play at high volumes. I'll slightly disagree with the last couple of posters by saying you can get Bose quality at 1/3 the price.

I'd like to know from zero-R about which speakers you tested in the chamber. For years this website (http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html#number1) has ripped into Bose for their poor FR, and Bose has never challenged them to take it down. There testing was done on the Acoustimass 15 system in an anechoic chamber. One can only assume that Bose knows that FR is accurate and isn't going to challenge them on something that they both agree on.

This is also interesting:
The frequency range of a high quality home theater system should be 20Hz to 20,000Hz with less than + or - 3dB fluctuation in volume level and be able to output 105dB during loud peaks. DVDs and CDs are produced in mixing environments that match these specifications and THX uses these specifications for the certification of home theater equipment and environments. Bose Acoustimass speakers are only able to produce sound from 46Hz to 13.3kHz at + or - 10.5dB. Bose Acoustimass, Lifestyle, and 3-2-1 systems are not able to meet standard specifications expected by DVD sound producers.
http://liquidtheater.com/editorial_56.html

So why do Bose speakers sound good? Usually because we listen to them like Tokyo_Guy - for a short time. Bose actually accentuates certain frequencies (mid bass & treble) because in their psychological studies of human hearing people PREFER sound with a boost in those ranges over the original FR. They also know most music has very little above 15KHz, so why make a speaker that can handle that - it just costs more. To top it off Bose knows most people who can afford $3k, don't blast their music and therefore why make a speaker that can go to 105db - it just costs more to do that. Save the cash and put it into marketing.

I really wonder if some Bose engineers were on this board and challenged the veracity of some members arguments against them. How would the members react...
No need to wonder, it happened here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=657464

The Bose guy (J_Feng) was really nice. He had to defend Bose since he works there, but he made some interesting statements like:
BTW, BB, CC, and other big box retailers have tremendous influence on what audio products are brought to market. Can you imagine the clout BB has, were it to say it wanted a 0.5liter cube+sub system that had high WAF and moderate audio performance? Do you think Harman, Yamaha, Denon, Pioneer, Boston Acoustics, etc. wouldn't rush to CES with such a product? If you are a technical guy, can you imagine what acoustic challenges are presented by that 0.5liter limitation? That, Brian, is a topic worth discussion ...

I don't dislike Bose because they sell at BB and other chains, but I think people need to realize that Bose comes from a perspective of sales first, sound second. They couch that in the argument that their speakers are great considering they are the size of a cigarette box and that's what people want. Today Bose is having some difficulty with the in-wall speaker craze because their cig sized cubes don't have the advantage over quality in-walls (not in size, price or quality).

the only thing I really hate about blowz is their mis-information campaign. there are plenty of so-so speakers that cost too much, but most don't spend millions trying to convince the population that horse meat is the next Filet Mignon.

The one ad that really got me frustrated was the one that shows an acoustive wave stereo with tons of tower speakers behind it, and then the ad says that the bose is better then all the rest of the wannabees. its one thing if you wanna go into the compact route, but to say that it competes with the larger speakers is just dumb, they are out of any tiny speakers league. Well any tiny speaker I have ever heard at least.

I don't necessarily want to be a "basher" like some here are saying, but I just wanted to throw my 2 cents in -

I'm a college student, so I can't really afford extremely expensive audio. For most of my last decade my home theater viewing was done with my parent's Bose Accoustimass 10 system. It was the first real HT system I had ever heard, so I thought it sounded fantastic. When they were purchasing that system, I was young and naive, and unfortunately fell into the "Bose is really high quality" and "laws of physics need not apply" trap, and I helped convince my dad that that system is what he needed. :(

I did own a little Klipsch 5.1 PC system which sounded good, but I never got the chance to compare them in the same room. The Klipsch couldn't play very loud, but I think overall frequency response and clarity was better -- but it died prematurely after 2 years.

Fast forward to yesterday, when my Klipsch's replacement was finally "completed." I was able to set up the new speakers/sub/receiver in the same room my parents use for HT - and the difference was mind blowing. I could hear so much more subtleties everywhere, especially in the dialogue. With the Bose, it always sounded muffled, mumbled, and distant (when my dad watches movies, he always complains that the actors mumble and then turns on the subtitles) - not so with my new center, with which I hear crystal clear articulation of the dialogue and incredibly smooth response overall from the speaker. Music seemed to come alive as well with all channels, and even though the room they were in is not so good for home theater, the surround field and overall placement of different sounds seemed much better. I still need to test the bookshelfs for stereo music listening though.

I don't think I'll be able to bring myself to watch another movie on their system again - the experience would be too underwhelming. This (http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html) guy is spot on - I feel sorry for those who buy Bose for their supposed "sound quality". Stay away from Bose.

(2307CI, x-ls/x-cs 5.0, VTF 2.3)

Appreciate your comments and glad to hear you came to the light, but that guy is about as clueless about sound as bose is and his agenda is more disturbing.

Whenever a bose thread pops up, someone drops in the ol intelluxual link thinking they have just provided readers with a clear path to understanding why bose is garbage. The author goes to great lengths to emphasize how bad bose is, so great in fact that makes himself into an idiot. We need a better antibose article.

I went into Circuit City last night wanting to listen to the Polk center channels, I'm looking to upgrade my HT speakers and I am starting with the center. The sales guy kept on insisting that I go with the Bose (not sure what model #, but it was $199) even though I told him I wasn't intertested.

I listened to the Bose, it sounded good, but then went on to ask him some specific question about the Polk models I was really interested in. The guy treated me like I was an idiot for not being interested in the Bose. When he dropped the "well it's your money. you can buy whatever you want" line, I just walked out.

I have a friend who works at CC, he is utterly clueless about audio, he usually sells TV's. Anywho, we were talking the other night about TV's, I don't know much about them but I seem to know far more than he did, I asked him what his area of expertise was if it wasn't TV's and he said it was audio. I respect him very much but I couldn't help myself from the audible "heh" that involentarily escaped my lips. I asked him what he knew about audio and said he knew where to place the speakers, that was pretty much it, and he managed to get that all wrong.

End of story, don't expect the knowledgable staff at CC to sell you the right stuff, you had better find it yourself.

Two great articles which somewhat touch on Bose...Army, these are for you.


http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/setup/loudspeakers/cubed_speakers.php

http://www.audioholics.com/news/editorials/DumbingDownAudio.php

I could hear so much more subtleties everywhere, especially in the dialogue. With the Bose, it always sounded muffled, mumbled, and distant (when my dad watches movies, he always complains that the actors mumble and then turns on the subtitles) - not so with my new center, with which I hear crystal clear articulation of the dialogue and incredibly smooth response overall from the speaker. Music seemed to come alive as well with all channels, and even though the room they were in is not so good for home theater, the surround field and overall placement of different sounds seemed much better. I still need to test the bookshelfs for stereo music listening though.


It's called being bright. Klipsch speakers are notoriously bright (high frequencies are louder than they should be).

When comparing the two, the Bose would obviously sound more muffled (less high frequencies), but this does not necessarily mean it is lacking in the high frequencies. Since Klipsh is known as being far from neutral and very high biased, for all you know the Bose could be neutral.

In short, Bose engineers are brilliant people who design very good systems. However, they price up their stuff up so much, that you can buy something for half the price that sounds equally as good.

Very true. Thing is, all Amir has to do is order a solution, have the engineers make it happen, and the design sticks for decades. That's why your career upgrade path at BOSE = move on.

As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't matter who or why speakers are bashed. All that matters is that you have taken time and effort to read about and compare through your own ears how they sound to you. I also asked earlier what living enviorement, what electronics, and what speakers you are currently listening to.
I personally really feel it's worth while to research thorughly by reading forums like this and, most importantly footwork, before making decision. Of course there was no internet just mainly word of mouth, mainly magazines, and mostly footwork at the time I found my Klipsch Heresys in 76'. At that time next to 301's, 501's, 901's, and others I could compare and chose Klipsch.
I've been with Klipsch ever since and have only been to one Bose outlet out of curiosity. All the reasons are known by Bose bashers and I won't repeat them, however if they sound good to your ears then go with them. Just please compare with others truthfully and objectively, take your time, and give everyone here your honest input and report back. If you like them stick with them and don't look back. Good Luck!

I have NEVER owned Bose, mostly because I couldn't afford them when I was young and dumb and thought they were the ultimate speakers. However, I occasionally read threads like this one for amusement. Tonight, I randomly clicked back 10 pages and read a little and found this post from June of 2006:

Well, I own a bose system, the 6.1 system and the 201 and the center channel and the 161's and the acoustimass 3 system, just for the 7.1 part of the system. so i have a yamaha receiver pushing 7.1 system with two subs and 11 speakers. I know, I am sure there will be the typical response, "oh you could have all that sound with just two computer speakers...blah blah blah..." typical of people who dont like something, just jump on the band wagon about what sounds good. People hear different things from sound systems, I have had many sound systems, i like this one the best, it sounds great. I have a friend with a polk audio system with a velodyn sub, the system is all bass. I know what it should be, a good range of every frequency, from the low end to the high end of the audio spectrum. show me the evidence that the bose systems dont perform with the full range of frequency. I cannot speak for the htib people, just the speakers that i have bought, which are not part of the htib. as far as bass is concerned, my yamaha has an auto adjust mic that allows the system to self test and adjust the system, and i keep getting the to much bass error. so bass is not a problem. the system never cuts out, or pops or anything abnormal. i played the opening scene to top gun last night, and it sounded like a jet in my living room, and since i am a naval aviator, i would know what that sounds like. so all the bose bashing in my opinion is crap, just people not liking things because they think how could they possibly be as good whenever they are so small. I can already hear the comments coming back from this post, about how i suck and so does bose, maybe the bose systems you have heard are poorly set up, maybe you are listening with a biased opinion. who knows, i know what i have heard in my home over the years and i know that my system sounds great.

Here's the great part. I checked out this guys other posts, since he now shows that he has upwards of 70 posts on the forum. He's gone from his BOSE system to a Klipsch system, has gotten rid of the yammy and now has an ANTHEM Statement D2!!!!!!!! I didn't read what subwoofer he has. And none of this would have occurred if he hadn't started reading things here and realized maybe there was more to an audio system than what he had. Just reinforces the tremendous service this forum is to all of us. Thanks Alan and all the crew for supporting this site!!!

As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't matter who or why speakers are bashed. All that matters is that you have taken time and effort to read about and compare through your own ears how they sound to you. I also asked earlier what living enviorement, what electronics, and what speakers you are currently listening to.
I personally really feel it's worth while to research thorughly by reading forums like this and, most importantly footwork, before making decision. Of course there was no internet just mainly word of mouth, mainly magazines, and mostly footwork at the time I found my Klipsch Heresys in 76'. At that time next to 301's, 501's, 901's, and others I could compare and chose Klipsch.
I've been with Klipsch ever since and have only been to one Bose outlet out of curiosity. All the reasons are known by Bose bashers and I won't repeat them, however if they sound good to your ears then go with them. Just please compare with others truthfully and objectively, take your time, and give everyone here your honest input and report back. If you like them stick with them and don't look back. Good Luck!

Back in the late 70's early 80"s, I was also considering the 301's and 901's. They definitely had a unique sound design to them. In the end, it came down to 2 sets of Sansui SP X-8000. Though at the time, I was certainly impressed with Bose design principle and implementation. Definitely had a unique sound of their own, as did JBL at the time. Several years, (and a fairly large number of speakers), later, I settled down with Klipsch. I do have to admit, however, that I have never been a big fan of smallish, space saving speakers, such as the Cubes. I even have a hard time with the Quintets

Here's the great part. I checked out this guys other posts, since he now shows that he has upwards of 70 posts on the forum. He's gone from his BOSE system to a Klipsch system, has gotten rid of the yammy and now has an ANTHEM Statement D2!!!!!!!! I didn't read what subwoofer he has. And none of this would have occurred if he hadn't started reading things here and realized maybe there was more to an audio system than what he had.

I bet he misses his Bose.

No need to wonder, it happened here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=657464

The Bose guy (J_Feng) was really nice.

He was also posting quite a bit in this thread as well.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=707738

well i purchaced my bose in '99 because i couldn't come up with the extra $400 to get a set of AR Phantoms. i thought the phantoms sound better then the bose, however at the time i thought the accoustimass 10's were one of the best sounding speakers that i had ever heard and was extremely happy with them especially after i bought the VCS-10 center channel. well that uphoria lasted literally 2 months. once the newness of the wonder that is called digital dolby and DTS (the latter IMO being better) wore off, i was very disappointed in the setup and wishing to god i had got the phantoms. to this day i am still using the bose (reluctantly i might add) but are within weeks of purchasing something new. paradigm studio 20's and energy veritas 2.2i's are on my list thus far and will be auditioning more as soon as my ear infection clears up.

damn i wish i had spent my $999+$179(for center) better :(

damn i wish i had spent my $999+$179(for center) better :(

But as many have pointed out, you can unload them on ebay. Bose holds it's value because so many people think they're the best.

You might just be a Bose-basher

If you believe that paper is not a suitable material for making loudspeaker diaphragms,
You might just be a Bose basher!
If you think that you can tell the quality of a loudspeaker purely from the size of its magnet,
You might just be a Bose basher!
If you don’t understand that plastic is actually rather good material for making loudspeaker baskets and enclosures, you might just be a Bose basher.
If you think that any loudspeaker has a perfectly flat frequency response,
If you know absolutely nothing about psycho-acoustics,
If you and your partner like huge speaker enclosures
If you think working for a hi-fi dealer makes you a qualified sound engineer,
If you think that no-one else is entitled to their opinion,
If you believe worldwide customer service support and freely available spares are not important,
If you think a company that spends 100 Million Dollars a year on research charges too much for its products,
If you think "no highs no lows...it must be Bose" is clever or a good argument,
You might just be a Bose basher!

I won't respond to the items I agree with and I find it interesting that this is post #1 from mrenard1953 which makes me think someone from Bose wrote this or this person doesn't want to put his reputation on the line.

If you think that you can tell the quality of a loudspeaker purely from the size of its magnet
The laws of physics have not yet been broken by Amar Bose. Deep bass can not come from a small enclosure. Bose cubes can not even deliver mid-bass. Humans can localize frequencies above 120hz. The Bose bass module can be localized - making stereo or any multi-channel music into mono.

If you don’t understand that plastic is actually rather good material for making loudspeaker baskets and enclosures
If we're talking about aeronautic grade plastic I'd agree, but that type of plastic is more expensive than mdf and other quality enclosures. Of course you don't state that "Bose plastic" makes for good enclosures because that would be technically wrong, so you don't specify that, you just say plastic can be good.

If you think that any loudspeaker has a perfectly flat frequency response
No one has stated that. What we have had issues with are +/- 15db FR curves from Bose speakers.

If you know absolutely nothing about psycho-acoustics
We all know that Bose purposely makes inaccurate products for the purpose of human preference. This works great in a short 5 minute demo to make the sale. But once people have to live with the sound for six months or actually sit down and do some critical listening and head-to-head comparisons, that preference for the first 5 minutes turns into listener fatigue. Make the sale and screw the customer - nothing wrong with that if profit is your underlying motive and not music.

If you and your partner like huge speaker enclosures
Absolutely. Explain to me how you can get 20hz from anything that Bose makes?

If you think that no-one else is entitled to their opinion
If someone is of the opinion that they like Bose, that is fine. If someone is of the opinion that Bose speakers produce accurate sound then they are spreading falsehoods and lies - and no one is entitled to spread misinformation.

If you think a company that spends 100 Million Dollars a year on research charges too much for its products
Wow, what a useless point. What does research have to do with what a company charges? Honda spends considerably LESS on its R&D than Ford - would you rather drive a Ford Taurus or a Honda Accord?

If you think "no highs no lows...it must be Bose" is clever or a good argument
There's no arguing with this argument - "No lows...it must be Bose". Unless you can show me one product Bose makes today that can reach to below 30 hz.

^ SimpleTheater, good responses. I couldn't have said it better myself.

Humans can localize frequencies above 120hz. The Bose bass module can be localized - making stereo or any multi-channel music into mono.
They actually crossover at 80Hz :confused:


We all know that Bose purposely makes inaccurate products for the purpose of human preference. This works great in a short 5 minute demo to make the sale. But once people have to live with the sound for six months or actually sit down and do some critical listening and head-to-head comparisons, that preference for the first 5 minutes turns into listener fatigue. Make the sale and screw the customer - nothing wrong with that if profit is your underlying motive and not music.
I actually don't think their speakers are that bad, Bose is just in the same category as Monster.

The sound is quite lifelike; the highs and lows just need to be added.

Now I am not saying they are the best...

I actually don't think their speakers are that bad, Bose is just in the same category as Monster. The sound is quite lifelike; the highs and lows just need to be added.



:rolleyes:

They actually crossover at 80Hz :confused:

Take a look at this Bose Acoustimass 10 User Manual (http://www.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/og_am10_s1.pdf). Go to page 11. The crossover frequency is 200 hz.

So, they are still having the base module attempt to take care of that wide range of frequencies from low mids to mid lows?

Wow... I mean, from a technical standpoint, can it be done?... I suppose you can. Will it yield a quality, hi fidelity sound with the proper nuance and dynamic impact? Well.............

Yes to all of you. But, would you own Bose stock? :D

Yes to all of you. But, would you own Bose stock? :D

I'm not sure... In the immortal words of Auntie from the The Road Warrior/Thunderdome... "Today **** of the walk... tomorrow a featherdust"

There's no arguing with this argument - "No lows...it must be Bose". Unless you can show me one product Bose makes today that can reach to below 30 hz.

My argument with all due respect.
Acknowledging that Bose cube models do not pretend to have subwoofer, just a base module...you'd be hard pressed to find many bookshelf speakers that reach below 30 hz with any authority...let me know, if it's reasonably priced, I'd be the first in line. Below 30 hz is sub. territory with some floor model exceptions and fewer expensive bookshelves that I can't think of. By the way, manufacturer's speaker specs. mean nothing, they can print what they want with impunity.
I don't believe Bose even makes a non commercial sub woofer....so there're not even in the running for <30 hz.; unless someone out there claims the 901's magically do and can produce some evidence.
Again, I believe Bose builds decent products, incl. speakers, that are just too expensive for many of us to justify.
So, no lows........it must be my Boston Acoustic and I forgot to turn on the Velodyne....

Hi Guys!

Wow! I have an audience.

Thank you all for the trouble taken to reply to my monologue. It was a little tongue-in cheek, - I am actually not so much pro-Bose as anti- anti-Bose, if that is understandable?

SimpleTheater, thank you for taking the time and effort (and being polite!). Although you may have misunderstood my first point (I was talking about magnets, not speaker enclosures) - you have made some interesting comments and I will respectfully consider them to make sure I understand correctly and get back to you.

Mconno, thank you too. Your point is a good one, there are not that many loudspeakers that go much below 30 hz, and most of those that do are very expensive. I have seen quite a few "subwoofers" that don't go that low.

I work for a small shipping company just outside of Stockholm. I would call myself a music lover rather than an audiophile. I think that searching for perfect sound can be frustrating, but music is a miracle, it soothes and refreshes the soul. You can enjoy good music even with a cheap sound system - many people have to!

Besides music, I am interested in retro hi-fi, and restore old loudspeakers as a hobby. I am currently restoring some old Sonab Carlsson speakers (OA14's) which also interestingly use the direct-reflecting philosophy - developed seperately from Dr Bose, I believe, by a Swedish physicist called Stig Carlsson in the 60's here in Sweden - lovely clear open sound, but also possibly a little lacking in extreme low and high frequencies.

I have owned and used Bose speakers in the past (901's, AM3's) and found them reliable, good for what they are, and had really excellent customer service from Bose. I would consider them again in future, if they suited my purpose.

I plan to restore an old pair of 901's next (cost 40 USD, will cost 80 - 400 USD to repair, depending on whether any of the speakers actually need replacing, or can just be repaired) and the brilliant thing is that all spares will be obtainable - on 30 year old speakers!

It was while doing research on the 901's to gather as much info as I could for this project that I came across this forum with all its anti-Bose feeling, and that caught my interest.

I don't think Bose are the Evil Empire. You can get in most cases, better sounding speakers for the same price, or cheaper. The high price that people pay is for the appearance (SIZE) and convenience. People keep saying you can get better speakers that are that small. REALLY? Jewel cubes are 3 X 6 X 4 inches? I have some lovely little AudioPro speakers - very small mini-monitors(made here). They sound wonderful for their size. They cost about the same as AM3's. They have nearly TEN TIMES the volume of the AM3's!

And don't forget the innovation - you may not like it, but the thing about innovation is that it is so innovative : ) May not always be better, but it's different, it makes you think and question things.

If you really want to find a company that makes sound equipment that looks nice but doesn't sound as good as it should for the price, look at Denmark's Bang and Olufsen. But they are reliable and they are works of art, so many people buy them and are happy with them.

Enjoy the music, chaps...

AND -

Can somebody tell me how to edit my profile - I don't want to be accused of working for Bose again - although I don't see why Bose employees can't have useful input - there were interesting posts from a gentleman from Bose a while back - chief engineer in the auto division, if I remember correctly - seemed to know what he was talking about!?

Mvh,
Mike

Yes to all of you. But, would you own Bose stock? :D
That's the 2nd time in the last month someone has made this comment. And forgetting for a minute that Bose is a private company, years ago it would have made sense to invest in Bose (if you could), when they were in their growth stage. But today, let's just say I'm not prone to investing in companies with 0% annual revenue growth. Forbes - Bose Profile (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/21/biz_06privates_Bose_V692.html)

One of the neat things Bose reminds me of is the effectiveness of direct marketing:
Their popularity isn't founded on the strong recommendations of decent experianced salespeople (most of whom agree with the people here with respect to, and no respect of, Bose's SQ),
IT'S SOMETHING THAT "TESTIMONIALS", AND CLEVER MARKETING THROUGH GROUP INDOCTRINATION has yielded. Groupspeak of a parrotted belief of those who haven't done the neccesary personal direct comparisons.
It is a clear example to me of why a 30 day free audition in the vacuum of little comparitive demo opportunities is no garuntee that people are going to make a decent personal choice. It also is a reminder that if you (the manufacturer) have done your marketing this well, people will pay whatever the you asks without insisting they get it for less than the other guy , they will do this without screaming about the "price fixing" nature of buying direct or from dealers who all charge the same. It further illustrates that their direct marketed products have obviously garunteed no one a "better value" by eliminating the middle levels of mark-up.
It also does remind me that Psycho-acoustics do play a part in preferance. I don't like their satelittes (nor most satelittes for that matter) but unlike certain brands, I don't find them fatiguing or offensive (just dull and rolled-off).
Certain Class D amps are, to me, rather offensive in the highs, some manufacturers have realized that many can't hear in that range, so no big deal, others have rolled off that range to elliminate the offensive characteristics, claiming the "advantage" of a certain "tube-like" sound. The ones that have bothered to try to elliminate the problem have spent serious money doing so.
If you really want to find a company that makes sound equipment that looks nice but doesn't sound as good as it should for the price, look at Denmark's Bang and Olufsen.
And look at the innovations they have produced do to research.
Perhaps what they are most guilty of is NOT revealing their own flaws or properly explaining to people that they aren't very good, of course few companies will do such a thing or backk of from a formula that has been successful. Giving the people what they want is a fine business stratagy. I honestly believe though (based on having seen this done by others) that if Bose were to be upfront with the areas of sound reproduction that they are criticized for failing to produce properly, and their reasons for not doing what we "experts" are asking them to improve, they would not likely suffer much of a loss in sales.

CLEVER MARKETING THROUGH GROUP INDOCTRINATION

Orrrrr........ The "Ludovico Technique."....;)

http://www.personal.psu.edu/users/s/m/sms540/co_media/theater.gif


http://www.mania.com/content_pics/28270_thumb.jpg

:)

"IT'S SOMETHING THAT "TESTIMONIALS", AND CLEVER MARKETING THROUGH GROUP INDOCTRINATION has yielded. Groupspeak of a parrotted belief of those who haven't done the neccesary personal direct comparisons."


The only Bose advertising I have ever seen is when I have gone and looked at their website. I have lived in Africa, now in Sweden, travelled widely, perhaps it's only in America? People in other countries buy Bose too.

With all due respect sir, do you not perhaps have a vested interest in selling something else?

Mvh
Mike

"IT'S SOMETHING THAT "TESTIMONIALS", AND CLEVER MARKETING THROUGH GROUP INDOCTRINATION has yielded. Groupspeak of a parrotted belief of those who haven't done the neccesary personal direct comparisons."

The only Bose advertising I have ever seen is when I have gone and looked at their website. I have lived in Africa, now in Sweden, travelled widely, perhaps it's only in America? People in other countries buy Bose too.

With all due respect sir, do you not perhaps have a vested interest in selling something else?Mvh
Mike


Ahhhh..yes another anti-anti Bose poster.

Mike seriously..What was said in that statement about the GROUP INDOCTRINATION is 100% true. Its a great way to explain the reason for Bose's success with a pool of customers who are not educated enough, willing, or able to do comparisons.

Bose does not even need advertising at this point. They have become the Jello/Xerox of their industry...sadly.

Also, why does it have to be that Schadenfreude has a vested interest in selling something else. Perhaps its his goal to just recommend something else and there is a good reason for it? Any reason you think he might want to recommend something else than Bose...on this forum perhaps...aside from the fact that you think he makes nothing off Bose products?

Just for you - The 4 typical Bose defenses:

1. You must not sell it so you bash it (you used this one already)
2. You have never heard their products
3. I like them so they must be great.
4. They would not be so successful if they did not make great product.

I am just laying more out there for you to use. :)

perhaps it's only in America?

Maybe true.
My vested interests aren't too relevant as I don't solicit business or advertise where I work. I do not sell Bose products though, and even when I did , I didn't very often, if you get my meaning. With Bose it's more like clerking anyway.

Take a look at this Bose Acoustimass 10 User Manual (http://www.bose.com/pdf/customer_service/owners/og_am10_s1.pdf). Go to page 11. The crossover frequency is 200 hz.
That window freezes when I open it :confused: . When I checked the owner's manual a couple months ago, it said to crossover at the "lowest possible, typically 80 Hz"

That window freezes when I open it :confused: . When I checked the owner's manual a couple months ago, it said to crossover at the "lowest possible, typically 80 Hz"

That owner's manual does say to set the crossover frequency on your AC-3 receiver to 200 Hz. However, it is a different animal. You are using the high-level outputs of the receiver, yet I think the bass module is actually providing the crossover to the satellites. I think that's the real reason why they want the mains set to "Large" and the subwoofer set to "Off" on the receiver. By sending a full-range signal on the mains into the bass module, they can control the "real" crossover in the bass module. The 200 Hz value stated is for the "LFE Channel" - however with that high a crossover and the subwoofer set to "Off", I'm not sure that actually does anything. It would be interesting to put a volt meter on the sub channel output of the receiver and see if there's anything really coming out.

Typical Marketing misdirection to imply one thing, while actually steering you somewhere else.

Ahhhh..yes another anti-anti Bose poster.

Is this a joke that I don't understand?

Mike seriously..What was said in that statement about the GROUP INDOCTRINATION is 100% true. Its a great way to explain the reason for Bose's success with a pool of customers who are not educated enough, willing, or able to do comparisons.

I don't agree - also group indoctrination is a great way to explain the success of any idea or pruduct one doesn't agree with. I also have aproblem with the assumption that anyone who doesn't agree with you on this issue is "not educated enough, willing, or able to do comparisons" Wow! Hey, I am almost "inoffendable" - but that is offensive! Naughty man!

Seriously though, regarding making comparisons (I ignore the "uneducated" insult on the grounds that I have seen much ignorance and misunderstanding of basic principles on the part of both pro- and anti-Bose supporters) - how easy is that?

Where? My opinion is that the only meaningful place is in your own home. If you can find a dealer that will allow you a trial period so you can compare their items to Bose items during the 30 day free trial period, great, But I haven't found a dealer like that... perhaps your experience is different.

Also - if someone bases their decision on a system on looks, size and convenience, rather than frequency response, does that make them "not educated enough, willing, or able to do comparisons"? Or perhaps just different priorities.

Maybe they never listen to their systems at anything other than quite low volumes? Are they stupid or perhaps considerate of their neighbours?

Also, why does it have to be that Schadenfreude has a vested interest in selling something else.

...Um, because he sells something else... or doesn't he? Sorry, it was probably unfair, or at least possibly untrue... I tried to stop myself, but I couldn' help it! I am sure he sells products that sound better than Bose and cost less. But this doesn't mean either that anyone who decides to buy Bose instead of his products is "not educated enough, willing, or able to do comparisons".


Just for you - The 4 typical Bose defenses:

1. You must not sell it so you bash it (you used this one already)

Well, I have apologised for that, but could it not ever possibly be true?

"2. You have never heard their products"

I wouldn't insult anyone by using that as an argument, because anyone who who is anti Bose without actually listening to the products would be ridiculous, wouldn't they?

3. I like them so they must be great.

Fine, but how about "I don't like them, so they must be bad! And Bose must be unethical!"

4. They would not be so successful if they did not make great product.

Making a great product is clearly not enough. One needs to have a good product and good service as well as good marketing. However I do take your point that it is possible to sell a bad product (at least for a while) with good marketing. BUT a very expensive product? Oh, wait - Detroit have been doing it for years!

But thanks for taking the trouble to make a reasonable response.

And thanks for the "ammo" to use in future :)