That window freezes when I open it :confused: . When I checked the owner's manual a couple months ago, it said to crossover at the "lowest possible, typically 80 Hz"
Right-click the link and choose "Save As" instead of trying to open the PDF in your browser.

That owner's manual does say to set the crossover frequency on your AC-3 receiver to 200 Hz. However, it is a different animal. You are using the high-level outputs of the receiver, yet I think the bass module is actually providing the crossover to the satellites. I think that's the real reason why they want the mains set to "Large" and the subwoofer set to "Off" on the receiver. By sending a full-range signal on the mains into the bass module, they can control the "real" crossover in the bass module. The 200 Hz value stated is for the "LFE Channel" - however with that high a crossover and the subwoofer set to "Off", I'm not sure that actually does anything. It would be interesting to put a volt meter on the sub channel output of the receiver and see if there's anything really coming out.

Typical Marketing misdirection to imply one thing, while actually steering you somewhere else.

These are the Bose settings from the PDF I linked:

Speaker Setting at receiver
Left and Right Front .......................... Large
Center ............................................... Small
Left and Right Surround ................... Large
Subwoofer ........................................ OFF (not used)
LFE (low frequency effects) .............. ON
Crossover frequency ........................ 200Hz

By setting everything to LARGE (except for the Center), you are automatically sending NOTHING under 200Hz to the Center channel. Of course this is confusing because all 5 Bose Cubes are attached to the Bass Module, so you'd think they'd have a crossover in their for all 5 cubes, not just four. But it seems to make sense, you don't want the Bass Module doing Center Channel duties. By turning the Subwoofer OFF and setting the Center to Small, nothing below 200hz should get to the Bass Module for the center channel. Which leads me to believe that the Bass Module handles everything UNDER 200 Hz for the other 4 speakers.

It just blows me away that the Acoustimass 10 is selling for $999, when you can get this killer setup for $90 LESS.
http://www.psbspeakers.com/Images/homeTheater/miniTS.jpg

mrenard1953, I got to tell ya, you are not off to a very good start here. You seem to want to take personal swipes at posters and you have been here a grand total of 3 days perhaps? I don't get it.

Anyway, I normally wouldn't bother even responding to this (particularly since its been beaten to death so many times) but I am going to humor you. First of all, what did you not understand about the Ani-anti-Bose comment? YOU are the one who coined the phrase in your post earlier and now you don't understand it? Ok...I guess the joke is on us then...

Secondly, you assume because I use the word "uneducated" that I mean that the said consumer is not smart, and I use the word as an insult. You got that one all wrong too my friend. We constantly use the word "uneducated" as a way to describe some Bose customers who are just not audio savvy. Perhaps they are Audio customers who are not Bose savvy. They are not "educated" in audio and usually purchase Bose (or any product) because of reputation or because of what a biased sales person tells them. Posters here often use the word to describe consumers who just don't understand audio - hence they are uneducated. What would education (in a school sense) have to do with anything?

Too bad you took it so negatively...then again you have only been here a few days so I cant expect you to understand everything. All posters here whether they like Bose or not admit that Bose fills a nice niche, doesn't market to most of us, and offers convenience factors way beyond what any other company can provide.

However, that is where the praising ends. You can come on here and defend them until you are blue in the face with your Bose pom poms.. It will never change the fact that they are overpriced, regarded as low quality, regarded as a terrible value (when SQ is paramount) and are generally laughed at by the audio community. The community has spoken, voted, and Bose has lost.

What this forum does not like is that although Bose is great for many people, its also purchased by many people who unfortunately don't know what they are purchasing and can do better to achieve their specific goals (SQ perhaps) with better, less expensive gear. Nobody here minds Bose going after their large pool of core customers....but their marketing has led this pool to overflow past perfect customer into a category who just don't know any better etc....

Also, what expensive, bad product has Detroit been selling with good marketing? How does it compare to Bose?

What was said in that statement about the GROUP INDOCTRINATION is 100% true. Its a great way to explain the reason for Bose's success with a pool of customers who are not educated enough, willing, or able to do comparisons
I don't agree - also group indoctrination is a great way to explain the success of any idea or pruduct one doesn't agree with. I also have aproblem with the assumption that anyone who doesn't agree with you on this issue is "not educated enough, willing, or able to do comparisons" Wow! Hey, I am almost "inoffendable" - but that is offensive! Naughty man!
Well, when I read his "group indoctrination" quote, I didn't read it as THE ONLY WAY to explain it but rather "Its a great way " to explain it, certainly there have to be some people who have bought hyped products from Bose and ID companies that have done so AFTER intensive, side-by-side, direct comparisons, but most here would agree that this is not what typicly sells them (as most don't do it) but rather what sells them is word of mouth marketing and groupthink that they are great. I know there are some people who have bought these kinds of products who are educated and have done comparisons.

Seriously though, regarding making comparisons (I ignore the "uneducated" insult on the grounds that I have seen much ignorance and misunderstanding of basic principles on the part of both pro- and anti-Bose supporters) - how easy is that?
True.

Where? My opinion is that the only meaningful place is in your own home. If you can find a dealer that will allow you a trial period so you can compare their items to Bose items during the 30 day free trial period, great, But I haven't found a dealer like that... perhaps your experience is different.

I can find at least 3 dealers , very close, that would sell me Bose along with any other speaker set-up and let me return either or both within 30 days with no restocking fee. Of course I can listen do these comparisons directly at a couple of dealers, but it would require me to convince them to set the Bose up next to something else (most don't make it easy to do direct Bose comparisons in-store) and I have done this on many occaisions.

Also - if someone bases their decision on a system on looks, size and convenience, rather than frequency response, does that make them "not educated enough, willing, or able to do comparisons"? Or perhaps just different priorities.
That's been discussed, and again, I don't think he meant that there couldn't possibly be other reasons besides laziness and stupidity, just that those may be among the most prevelant.

Maybe they never listen to their systems at anything other than quite low volumes? Are they stupid or perhaps considerate of their neighbours?
There are other systems for less that would play better , imo, at lower volumes as well.

Quote:
Also, why does it have to be that Schadenfreude has a vested interest in selling something else.

couldn' help it! I am sure he sells products that sound better than Bose and cost less...
Yes , that's quite true.
Um, because he sells something else... or doesn't he? Sorry, it was probably unfair, or at least possibly untrue... I tried to stop myself, but I. But this doesn't mean either that anyone who decides to buy Bose instead of his products is "not educated enough, willing, or able to do comparisons".
No, not neccesarily, but that's the way to bet. If given the opportunity to "educate" these people with a blind, direct comparison I could undoubtedly sell a huge majority something else.

Quote:
Just for you - The 4 typical Bose defenses:

1. You must not sell it so you bash it (you used this one already)

Well, I have apologised for that, but could it not ever possibly be true?
Yes , POSSIBLY, as it could possibly also be true that people who picked bose haven't done comparisons and are uneducated.

Quote:
"2. You have never heard their products"

I wouldn't insult anyone by using that as an argument, because anyone who who is anti Bose without actually listening to the products would be ridiculous, wouldn't they?
People are certainly PRO-certain brands without having ever heard them...pro-enough to buy before auditioning comparatively.

Quote:
3. I like them so they must be great.
Fine, but how about "I don't like them, so they must be bad! And Bose must be unethical!"
Yes there is a lot of both on these forums.

Quote:
4. They would not be so successful if they did not make great product.

Making a great product is clearly not enough. One needs to have a good product and good service as well as good marketing. However I do take your point that it is possible to sell a bad product (at least for a while) with good marketing. BUT a very expensive product? Oh, wait - Detroit have been doing it for years!
It 's only possible if people are uneducated and unwilling to compare. The perfect check for this marketing is extensive comparative demos.

But thanks for taking the trouble to make a reasonable response.

And thanks for the "ammo" to use in future

Soory, I must have missed it.

It seems to me that coming to an audio forum and saying that it's OK if some people do not care about sound quality AND expecting everyone else to agree with you is asking for the impossible. I'm not gonna do it. There are PLENTY of examples in the world of products that are very popular, very expensive, yet are nowhere near the performance leaders. Isn't that pretty much the definition of anything labeled "Designer"? IMHO Bose is the "Designer Label" of the audio world. I'll bet Paris Hilton has a Bose system...

But thanks for taking the trouble to make a reasonable response.

And thanks for the "ammo" to use in future


Soory, I must have missed it.

The reasonable response or the ammo?

The ammo was a joke!

Mike

It seems to me that coming to an audio forum and saying that it's OK if some people do not care about sound quality AND expecting everyone else to agree with you is asking for the impossible. I'm not gonna do it. There are PLENTY of examples in the world of products that are very popular, very expensive, yet are nowhere near the performance leaders. Isn't that pretty much the definition of anything labeled "Designer"? IMHO Bose is the "Designer Label" of the audio world. I'll bet Paris Hilton has a Bose system...

Pwerhaps I HAVE missed the whole point of this thread.

In thought it was to discuss the pros and cons of buying Bose products and not necessarily a duscussion of whether Bose has the best sound?

Mike

mrenard1953, I got to tell ya, you are not off to a very good start here. You seem to want to take personal swipes at posters and you have been here a grand total of 3 days perhaps? I don't get it.

My apologies if I offended anyone.

what did you not understand about the Ani-anti-Bose comment? YOU are the one who coined the phrase in your post earlier and now you don't understand it? Ok...I guess the joke is on us then...

I understand the term "anti- anti-Bose - as you say, I used it myself. I didn't understand the reference to "another anti-anti- Bose..." If I coined the phrase - where are the others? Not an issue - I was just curious.

Secondly, you assume because I use the word "uneducated" that I mean that the said consumer is not smart, and I use the word as an insult.

I am glad I have that wrong - because I consider the term to be an insult in any context even if it may be true. Perhaps my diffeent background...

Too bad you took it so negatively...then again you have only been here a few days so I cant expect you to understand everything. All posters here whether they like Bose or not admit that Bose fills a nice niche, doesn't market to most of us, and offers convenience factors way beyond what any other company can provide

Nice, thank you.

The community has spoken, voted, and Bose has lost.

Oh? I missed that, thanks for telling me. If everyone else agrees, then I have misunderstood and have wasted my time.

Also, what expensive, bad product has Detroit been selling with good marketing? How does it compare to Bose?

MOTOR CARS! Again, just a joke (You genuinely couldn't tell?)

Mvh

Mike

That's the 2nd time in the last month someone has made this comment. And forgetting for a minute that Bose is a private company, years ago it would have made sense to invest in Bose (if you could), when they were in their growth stage. But today, let's just say I'm not prone to investing in companies with 0% annual revenue growth. Forbes - Bose Profile (http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/21/biz_06privates_Bose_V692.html)
Precisely.
I for one will definitely buy their stocks.

That's not the best decision. What you should be asking is if there will be any more interest in buying Bose than there has been in the past. I really don't think there is! The amount of cheap, yet acceptable audio equipment has increased, so fewer people are inclined to buy Bose. This is probably going to continue, so buying Bose stock will just lose you money. Also, last I checked, Bose is a private company!


Those who can't figure this stuff out probably also can't do some simple cost-benefit analysis-esque thinking to figure out there are ways to get more enjoyment out your money than buying a Bose system. The elderly (who probably don't really need remotely good quality sound with there bad hearing, and don't need a beautiful system because they are mostly blind) fall into this category. The fact that Bose exists is causing these confused elderly people to get less enjoyment out of the last years of their lives than they would have if they had just bought a random system for 1/2 the price, and spent the rest of the money on something else. Therefore, Amar Bose hates the elderly! Those who kill the elderly most likely hate the elderly. Therefore, Amar Bose kills elderly people. :mad: What a jerk! I know some elderly people; are they next!

:D Seriously, this thread is just way out there. Maybe it would be best to keep everything to one thread, like this one: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9208260
That way the fun can be consolidated.

first of all i have never nor would i ever buy a bose system. but i think the bashers dont like bose for the mere fact that bose's 2005 revenue was 1.5 BILLION Dollars. i bet all the ID gross revenue together dont command such a market share.

first of all i have never nor would i ever buy a bose system. but i think the bashers dont like bose for the mere fact that bose's 2005 revenue was 1.5 BILLION Dollars. i bet all the ID gross revenue together dont command such a market share.

I don't think that they care as much for how much Bose earned in revenues. I think that they care more about what Bose offers, construction and sound quality-wise, for the price that they are asking for. In terms of revenue, they may be doing rather well. But in terms of audio fidelity, you can find better comparable products out there... definitely better returns on investment on your money if sound quality is of any importance to you.

I, just today, sold my only bose purchase ever. I bought a lifestyle 28 series II 3 years ago. Spend 2800 on it and got rid of it today for a third that. I can say I hate bose. Not necessarily because of the sound. Haven't really had that much experience with higher class audio equipment. I can say that my Denon 2807 and Klipsch RF-82's and RW-12d blow the bose out of the water. My main beef with Bose boiled down to it's lack of keeping up with the times with respect to connections. No HDMI, upconversion or anything in the leage of my 2807. With respect to video, Bose is a very poor choice in my book. Every day I listen more and more to my new set up and I'm starting to realise sound wise, Bose in found wanting. That's what I've learned about Bose. Real life, in my own house results. Never again will I purchase Bose.

MOTOR CARS! Again, just a joke (You genuinely couldn't tell?)



Mike

As we all criticize the Bose marketing practice, let's equally give fair time on other blogs to products like Chrysler/Mercedes Benz. The hooplaa over the "hemi", the most overrated and hyped auto engine of all time that is a total non performer in efficiency....and Mercedes Benz who build the most unreliable vehicles in recent auto history (and overpriced ?)...Bose is overpriced and hyped too.....but they have shown at least ave reliability. Just realize that this stuff goes on throughout the "free enterprise" system....and if you believe an ad., any ad., on face value, Bose or any other audio product advertisement , it's a sad commentary on your
"consumer intellect".
No one has to tell the truth in an ad....

As we all criticize the Bose marketing practice, let's equally give fair time on other blogs to products like Chrysler/Mercedes Benz. The hooplaa over the "hemi", the most overrated and hyped auto engine of all time that is a total non performer in efficiency....and Mercedes Benz who build the most unreliable vehicles in recent auto history (and overpriced ?)...Bose is overpriced and hyped too.....but they have shown at least ave reliability. Just realize that this stuff goes on throughout the "free enterprise" system....and if you believe an ad., any ad., on face value, Bose or any other audio product advertisement , it's a sad commentary on your
"consumer intellect".


who cares about efficiency...just an excuse for those with engines that run out of oxygen and peter out... :-)

and to keep on topic, people buy Bose because it suits their needs...everyone else needs to get over it. It's a product like any other and to barrack for it like it's a football team is a "sad commentary on anyone's intellect"....

The hemi wasn't designed to be efficient, it was designed to revisit the past days of big american muscle. It does that pretty well, the hemi produces 425hp in a 6L block without the use of turbos. That is really nothing to write home about but it is a lot cheaper than the more efficient competitors. As for mercedes, they are luxury cars, luxury cars will always be overpriced, look at Cadillacs, they run like garbage these days and get all ooh'ed and ahh'ed at every turn. I am a valet and I have driven pretty much every car imaginable in every possible condition, I have a pretty good feel for what's good and what isn't and I still enjoy quite a few of the mercedes models. The people who buy them could care less about value, they want a fashion statement. That goes the very similar with bose as well.

Hah the last time I went to the UK, all the young people were drinking Bud :P

I was drinking Samuel Smiths of course, but ....

that is not the same budwieser dude

different company, different beer

not sure what country it originates from, but it is not a US import. Made in europe and not affiliated with US crap fest beer.

But Sam is my favorite domestic by far - beats alot of import IMO. You do have good taste.

As we all criticize the Bose marketing practice, let's equally give fair time on other blogs to products like Chrysler/Mercedes Benz. The hooplaa over the "hemi", the most overrated and hyped auto engine of all time that is a total non performer in efficiency....and Mercedes Benz who build the most unreliable vehicles in recent auto history (and overpriced ?)...Bose is overpriced and hyped too.....but they have shown at least ave reliability. Just realize that this stuff goes on throughout the "free enterprise" system....and if you believe an ad., any ad., on face value, Bose or any other audio product advertisement , it's a sad commentary on your
"consumer intellect".
No one has to tell the truth in an ad....

not a dodge fan, but hemis put out alot of power for their displacement. And the orignial hemi cars bring $$$ for more than just the panache of their name.

Yea, I said panache.

who cares about efficiency...just an excuse for those with engines that run out of oxygen and peter out... :-)

and to keep on topic, people buy Bose because it suits their needs...everyone else needs to get over it. It's a product like any other and to barrack for it like it's a football team is a "sad commentary on anyone's intellect"....
I couldn't agree more...as long as we included every other overhyped, overpriced speaker out there and are just as willing to point out their deficiencies. I don't like Bose not because of their performance, but because of their blatant outsourcing (Mexico), and hiring practices without passing savings on to the consumer and pretending to be an American company......but that's why I dislike Ford and GM as well and won't buy their products as well.
Bose lays off their workers to avoid retirement pay, the same reason Ford and GM sell junk, they have no money left for R and D after paying retirees.....got to give Amar credit for that, but not with my $$$$...

The hemi wasn't designed to be efficient, it was designed to revisit the past days of big american muscle. It does that pretty well, the hemi produces 425hp in a 6L block without the use of turbos. That is really nothing to write home about but it is a lot cheaper than the more efficient competitors. As for mercedes, they are luxury cars, luxury cars will always be overpriced, look at Cadillacs, they run like garbage these days and get all ooh'ed and ahh'ed at every turn. I am a valet and I have driven pretty much every car imaginable in every possible condition, I have a pretty good feel for what's good and what isn't and I still enjoy quite a few of the mercedes models. The people who buy them could care less about value, they want a fashion statement. That goes the very similar with bose as well.

That's my point exactly !!! Well said. Hype is in.

heres a quick news flash, everybody outsources in some fashion or another these days, its a global economy, we are all going to have to get used to that.

Bose lays off their workers to avoid retirement pay, the same reason Ford and GM sell junk, they have no money left for R and D after paying retirees.....
American companies are relatively unque among manufacturers around the world as they are saddled with paying for fantastic health care for everyone who works for them , and for anyone who ever has, as well as their families. Also the fact that America became so affluent many years ago that people felt they were entitled to retire is something that is comming home to roost. Unions still are collectively bargaining away the "Big 3's" ability to be competitive. It will be years before the demands the unions place upon foreign manufacturers cause them to buckle under their own weight and they (Toyota, Honda, etc) already have seen the light and have made plans to desert and move operations to other areas before anyone wises up. Of course, now that unions can't afford to pay for all the entitlements for those who , in most countries, are considered unskilled labor and treated accordingly, and because these lower end workers won't pay more for the goods that kept their entitlements flowing, the lower and lower-middle-class in America are contemplating shifting the crushing weight of entitlements to the government as the allure of having the "soon vanishing" rich pay for free gov't healthcare is just a vote for Hillary/Obama away.
Welcome to the Wamart global economy: you have a right to great pay , benifits , and healthcare , while still maintaing the right to buy cheap goods made cheap in those countries that don't have those benifits.

Well, THAT was interesting...cars, beer? Didn't mean to get everyone off at a tangent!
I love Corvettes, even if they are heavy on gas, and not THAT well made - they look and sound beautiful.
I hate beer! Can't understand the reason for it! But I know that puts me in a small minority...
You have some nice Zinfandels in the USA though.
AND you have BOSE! I think they are a rather interesting company, myself. I see they are now into active suspension as well, so perhaps cars are NOT off the topic?

Mvh,
Mike

I see they are now into active suspension as well, so perhaps cars are NOT off the topic?

Mvh,
Mike
Active suspension is not some great revelation. I even came up with the idea on my own a few years ago. I just didn't have the spare $$$$$$$$ like Bose has to do it. Also, look at this: http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4825370

It seems every good idea is taken!!!

My main beef with Bose boiled down to it's lack of keeping up with the times with respect to connections. No HDMI, upconversion or anything in the leage of my 2807.
Amazing that a company can spend $150 million on R&D every year and be in the A/V stone age.

No one has to tell the truth in an ad....
I agree with your entire post, except this last statement. Advertisers don't lie - they have to tell the truth or face lawsuits from consumer, but more likely from competitors.

It's the implied statements they make that throws most consumers off. Look at the Dodge ads about the Hemi engine. Do they say its efficient? No, all they say is "It's got a Hemi!" They let the consumer fill in the missing information - and since the two guys on the commercial are 'car guys' many consumers fill in Hemi as a good thing.

They always tell the truth - and yes, the Dodge DOES have a Hemi in it. :)

But Sam is my favorite domestic by far - beats alot of import IMO. You do have good taste.
I love Sam Adam's as well, but the person you quoted specifically stated Samuel Smith's. Personally Samuel Smith's Oatmeal Stout is my favorite drink ever, but it is definitely an import.

Advertisers don't lie - they have to tell the truth or face lawsuits from consumer, but more likely from competitors.
Whether they get caught and prosecuted often depends on who the victim is or the nature of the product. Also, what you can say and market in one country is different in another one. Penta water is fairly popular here, being found in health food stores. They make certain claims. When they made those same claims in Britain, the relevant agencies in that country stopped them.
Good advertising often dances on the edge of truth. Whether the consumer is able to discern the truth and recognize when the dance is towards one side or the other is another matter entirely. When you see lawsuits like the class action against Kraft for their Guacamole Dip, you start to realize there are a lot of dumb consumer. Sadly, they also vote.

Bose lays off their workers to avoid retirement pay, the same reason Ford and GM sell junk, they have no money left for R and D after paying retirees
You're living in the 1980's if you think GM & Ford build junk. Lincoln, Buick & Cadillac all beat out Infiniti, Toyota, Honda & Acura in the 2005 JD Power Long Term Dependability Study (http://www.jdpower.com/pdf/2005089.pdf) .

Don't go running to Consumer Reports because they use SLOP statistics, which has been completely rejected by the American Statistical Association. SLOP = Self-selected List Of Participants, which is exactly what you get when you only use your subscribers to give you data. After buying a lemon of a Toyota in 1992 I ended my subscription to the magazine. Low and behold I no longer get their auto-dependability questionnaire. That's SLOP at its best - people who get reliable cars based on CR's recommendations stay with the magazine, those that get fed up with their recommendations leave and are no longer part of their study.

If you're getting reliability data from CR, you might as well just accept the claims of manufacturers.

Well not necessarily SimpleTheater. The comments that many consumers offer with respect to certain reliability aspects in CR bears consideration. I do though like the long term studies, like the one you cited. They're often at odds over the intial studies.

heres a quick news flash, everybody outsources in some fashion or another these days, its a global economy, we are all going to have to get used to that.

Is the fact that Honda, Toyota, et al. build some cars in the US not also outsourcing? Just on the other end of it... There's nothing wrong with outsourcing per se, every manufacturer in the world does it...I personally love American styling, when it's American. I also love Euro styling, there's alway's some emotional tug of the string when i see their auto...especially the Italian stuff, wish they were here. The Japanese styling leave me a little cold, most not all...sure they're efficient, last a long time...but where is that tug?

Oh, and i don't mind Bose...i just can't "hate" any product, I just either buy it or i don't.

Oh, and i don't mind Bose...i just can't "hate" any product, I just either buy it or i don't.

Mature viewpoint... except when it comes to beer! :)

that is not the same budwieser dude

different company, different beer

not sure what country it originates from, but it is not a US import. Made in europe and not affiliated with US crap fest beer.

But Sam is my favorite domestic by far - beats alot of import IMO. You do have good taste.

he said he drank Bud not Budwieser. "In the United States and most of Latin America, the American beer is the only one which can be sold under the name "Budweiser". In some countries where the Czech brew has rights to that name, the American beer is sold as "Bud"." http://www.budweiser-beer.net/budweiser.htm

You're living in the 1980's if you think GM & Ford build junk. Lincoln, Buick & Cadillac all beat out Infiniti, Toyota, Honda & Acura in the 2005 JD Power Long Term Dependability Study (http://www.jdpower.com/pdf/2005089.pdf) .


If you're getting reliability data from CR, you might as well just accept the claims of manufacturers.

You use your sources to back up your claims, I use mine which include many in the automobile industry....GM and Ford out sources to get many of their better models (Ford Fusion from Mazda platform) as does GM (Toyota) and home grown Buicks....no problem (as well as building some of the best heavy equipment in the world, so we know they're capable). But many dealers I know are quick to point to junk models as well (Malibu) to satisfy the rental/leasing industry demand...these models show short term profitability, long term customer dissatisfaction, which is killing their reputation for building quality products....and they are frustrated with many products they have to sell.....like Audio dealers are frustrated with lines they have to carry....please don't compare JD Power so called research with CU. We're fools if we use either one as our soul source for product information....but we're bigger fools if we discount either as well. This forum contains product information that should not be taken on blind faith nor discounted as well when it comes to audio equipment....and to make inconsequential the CU findings in autos gives us the reason to discount them when it comes to electronics....when JD Power tasks AV equipment, we'll have a reason to distrust them as well....we play politics to make our choices and to make our purchases look good.
The buying public is the great equalizer....Honda/Toyota sales up, GM/Ford down....CU must have more influence than we gave them credit for...and could they have validity in electronics as well.....some of us will continue to disagree on that point, until they agree with us, on products....like Bose

Mature viewpoint... except when it comes to beer! :)

I said product...beer is food ;)

The buying public is the great equalizer....Honda/Toyota sales up, GM/Ford down....

Well it took a long time for the US consumer to realize that there were sometimes better alternatives and begin questioning relative value , and it is taking an even longer time for the big 3 to start to get it back, but to assume that the foreign car is always a better value is very simplistic and often innacurate. While it is a bit of a disadvantage for GM TO HAVE A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS OF BUILT -IN ENTITLEMENTS attatched to the price of every car, comparative value is often more reliant on intellegent design choices and an understanding of the market. I am looking at new cars and trucks right now and am considering approximately 10 differant vehicles who all offer differant value propositions.
Fuel economy, Cargo capacity (and flexability), reliability , Power, Size, Price, etc.:
Jeep Compass, Nissan Frontier, Honda Fit & Element, Dodge Caliber, Dodge Dakota, Pontiac Vibe, Chevrolet HHR, Mazda5, Toyota Matrix, Nissan Versa, Chrysler PT Cruiser.....
I can't decide if the horsepower and flexability of a truck is more important than the price savings (initially and with fuel economy) and manueverability of a crossover vehicle.
So, while were going OT with cars, can some of you play car salesman?

So, while were going OT with cars, can some of you play car salesman?

Are there any Volvo's in your price range (I am not familiar with comparative prices where you live) X70 or X90, if you call them the same there?

Mvh
Mike

A friend of mine whose wife has insisted on Volvo's calls them the Chevy OF SWEEDEN.
WHILE I AM CONSIDERING CHEVY AND LIKE MUCH OF WHAT I SEE IN VOLVO, MANY HAVE SPOKEN OF RELIABILITY ISSUES AND THEY are out of the price range I'm considering at this point.....(CAPS unintentional)

A friend of mine whose wife has insisted on Volvo's calls them the Chevy OF SWEEDEN.
WHILE I AM CONSIDERING CHEVY AND LIKE MUCH OF WHAT I SEE IN VOLVO, MANY HAVE SPOKEN OF RELIABILITY ISSUES AND THEY are out of the price range I'm considering at this point.....(CAPS unintentional)
A little OT subjective observation (assuming CU's recommendations are suspect). I have a good friend of 30 + years, an engineer and stereo buff, who has owned nothing but Volvos and took them to the 250k-300k miles with ease.....until his last X-Country. He was so disgusted with it for repairs, he went to BMW for one car and Subaru LL Bean to replace his X-Ctry (his first Japanese name plate)....engineering and safety wise, he feels the Subaru is years ahead. This from a man that would repair transmissions himself....and does not completely trust CU either. The factory sound system in the Volvo was better....but because there was so much road noise than the Subaru...he feels he hasn't lost a thing. I loved my Saabs for year, but have switched to Toyotas..., same issue. European brands have lost ground...incl MB s IMHO. I don't care for the extra panache if it leaves me stranded...which my Saabs and friends newer Volvo did with regularity. BYOT ( bring your own toolkit)
Put your question up on "Cartalk" B board and get some great suggestions. They are just as passionate about autos as this BB is about AV.
And no, non American brand cars are not always better values....but Chevy Prisms, and new Ford Fusion are great values.....but of course they were Toyota/Mazda platforms....most Chevy trucks are Mexican and many Fords are Canadian.....world market, buy make by make and do your research....you may be spending more for a car then AV equipment...

....you may be spending more for a car then AV equipment...

No, I won't. The one is a matter of practicality, the other is a passion.

No, I won't. The one is a matter of practicality, the other is a passion.
Then if that's the case....IMO you may appreciate the advice from "Cartalk", a passion equal to your own that you can take advantage of.

My take?.... if I have to buy an automobile that is around 65% - 70% japanese engineering and parts, I might as well buy a Japanese product, specially something like a Honda that is at least built in Ohio. I'm not going to buy a Chevy, Ford, or Dodge just because the corporate label is American, when I can buy a similar or better product from the original manufacturing entity.

To get back on topic...

I used to be a Bose believer. A friend of mine worked for a guy who had the top of the line bose system (at the time 7+ years ago) and I thought it sounded fantastic, never having heard a home surround sound system before. Fast forward 2 years and I get a job at circuit city in the audio department. It basically becomes my responsibility to put together surround sound demos. Well, let me tell you... I will NEVER reccommend BOSE again. I was able to put together MUCH better sounding systems using various speakers, subs and receivers for equal or in many case LESS money. I truly couldn't believe my ears. The ONLY reason I would ever reccommend bose at this point would be size and looks. I can't deny how nice a bose system looks and how unobtrusive it is in a living room. I personally am not willing to sacrifice sound quality for aesthetics however. Personally, there is nothing better than turning off all the lights and putting on a good horror movie where the sound just pops out at you and the bass from the sub shakes the room. Bose just doesn't do that...

To anyone who lives in NY and has been to Sushi Samba. I recently went there with a client for dinner and I thought they had a pretty good sound system. I look up and see Bose Acoustimas speakers. I guess they do sound good.

You're welcome. I'm basing that advice entirely on what a core group of Orb owners around here have been saying, I have not actually heard these speakers yet---hopefully will in a week or two though. In any case I find the claims that the Orbs far outperform the Bose sats very easy to believe.

btw, if you are willing to get something just a bit larger (11" x 6.5" x 6.375"), these can be ordered in white (click on "Finish Options" on the left menu) and having heard them myself I can definitely vouch for their excellence:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/htm200/htm200.html


How would you compare the orbs to the Gallo A'divas? Im curious because i was looking at the Adiva's (in ceiling mounted) myself and was looking to compare with other similar speakers.

And no, non American brand cars are not always better values....but Chevy Prisms, and new Ford Fusion are great values.....but of course they were Toyota/Mazda platforms....most Chevy trucks are Mexican and many Fords are Canadian.....world market, buy make by make and do your research....


You are confusing places of assembly, with where something was originally designed. And they are not the same thing. A car that was designed in Japan or even the US and is also used for other platforms, is in no way the same thing as a car that was designed in Japan and assembled in the US, or a car that was designed in the US and assembled either in Mexico or Canada. There are really only two main reasons why the auto manufactures go for places of assembly in other countries outside of where they were designed. It is either to avoid paying some import taxes on a fully assembled car, or to take advantage of a cheaper labor force in another country.

To get back on topic...

I used to be a Bose believer. A friend of mine worked for a guy who had the top of the line bose system (at the time 7+ years ago) and I thought it sounded fantastic, never having heard a home surround sound system before. Fast forward 2 years and I get a job at circuit city in the audio department. It basically becomes my responsibility to put together surround sound demos. Well, let me tell you... I will NEVER reccommend BOSE again. I was able to put together MUCH better sounding systems using various speakers, subs and receivers for equal or in many case LESS money. I truly couldn't believe my ears. The ONLY reason I would ever reccommend bose at this point would be size and looks. I can't deny how nice a bose system looks and how unobtrusive it is in a living room. I personally am not willing to sacrifice sound quality for aesthetics however. Personally, there is nothing better than turning off all the lights and putting on a good horror movie where the sound just pops out at you and the bass from the sub shakes the room. Bose just doesn't do that...
I appreciate your sharing your experience from when you worked at CC. Note that there are many small satellites that are the size of Bose satellites that can sound just as good, if not better, for a lot of money. Infinity is one brand that comes to mind.

Note that there are many small satellites that are the size of Bose satellites that can sound just as good, if not better, for a lot of money.
The few that I've seen that are as small as Bose's little cubes sound like junk too, but if you want to argue that they are somewhat less crappy, I wont bother refuting the arguement as I wouldn't reccomend a product that was only somewhat crappy anyway. Satelittes are a trade-off, small satelittes are a huge trade-off. Dicscussing SQ as it pertains to any of these matchbox sized turds is an excercise in futility, IMO.

You are confusing places of assembly, with where something was originally designed. And they are not the same thing. A car that was designed in Japan or even the US and is also used for other platforms, is in no way the same thing as a car that was designed in Japan and assembled in the US, or a car that was designed in the US and assembled either in Mexico or Canada. There are really only two main reasons why the auto manufactures go for places of assembly in other countries outside of where they were designed. It is either to avoid paying some import taxes on a fully assembled car, or to take advantage of a cheaper labor force in another country.

Place of assembly and % of domestic parts, are the primary concerns for domestic classification not "place" of design. You're not telling me something I didn't know. Even the "place of design" is subject to debate, it's irrelevant...esp. where some Ford and GM designs were done by European branches of their comps....my point is to illustrate the confusion in brand name and the need for research....06 Saturn Vue...Honda motor, designed and assembled in who knows where...The new Toyota Tundra was an American design project....but they could have been sitting in several countries and "conference calling" the entire design project with their subcontractors. By the way...as you say about labor cost being a factor, with the biggest outlays for GM are the off the top costs for health care and the nearly half million employees collecting retirement, retirement cost that Bose avoids....just to get back on topic. That practice doesn't make any business good or bad.....just practical.

Why is there all this confusion about where a company is from? At the end of the day, if you buy a product from "Ford", whether it was designed in Stuttgart, manufactured in China and assembled in Mexico, the money comes back to "Detroit". It's American...period.
Honda, Toyota, etc = Japanese.
etc, etc, etc....

Oh yeah...and Bose is installed in some of these models as well...just to keep on topic.

Why is there all this confusion about where a company is from? At the end of the day, if you buy a product from "Ford", whether it was designed in Stuttgart, manufactured in China and assembled in Mexico, the money comes back to "Detroit". It's American...period.
Honda, Toyota, etc = Japanese.
etc, etc, etc....

Otopic.
Another over simplification....
Oh if that were true...the money paid for production, subcontracting, and design obviously stays in the country which provided the service....any profit may find it's way back here, but seeing that Ford and GM are not as profitable as they once were...that money is minimized. A way those moneys involved in production find there way back here, is purchase of goods and services from America....and being that we are running massive trade deficits....more is lost than returns. Ford/GM are also reinvesting funds in other countries for future production...
It could be argued that at this point in time, Toyota and Honda are more "American" than GM as their investment in production here exceeds that of GM. Mainly because they have the money to do so.....Ford/GM are not domestic, Toyota and Honda (which produces the most widely exported sedan from America, the Accord which helps the trade deficit) is not foreign. They are all global and "Detroit" is lucky to see profits from from their baseball team, let alone the auto industry which is moving production and PROFITS overseas as we speak. Rent the movie about the Enron scandal (Smartest men in the Room) to give you an idea how easily money is moved from one place to another, it's not coming here. Our major companies are becoming a nation of Enrons, with eventually, no production, a nation of phantom wholesalers and consumers....trying to reroute what global funds are available back here.

It's called being bright. Klipsch speakers are notoriously bright (high frequencies are louder than they should be).

When comparing the two, the Bose would obviously sound more muffled (less high frequencies), but this does not necessarily mean it is lacking in the high frequencies. Since Klipsh is known as being far from neutral and very high biased, for all you know the Bose could be neutral.

He wasn't referring to Klipsch speakers in the comparison. He was referring to the system he put together to replace his old Klipsch 5.1 system.

If you look at the bottom of the post you'll see he meant an Onix X series setup & an HSU sub.

About the only thing that Ford or GM has in terms of being an "American" company anymore is the name of the corporation, and even that is suspect. And car companies are far from being alone. Most manufacturers have moved research, production/development, and customer support overseas as well. And about the only thing making it's way back are the higher profits for the GMs and board of directors. Are the prices on the products lower?... to certain extent. But the disparity between actual cost of manufacturing products overseas and the price that these corporations still ask is still huge, and most of the gains derived from exporting are passed to the aforementioned GMs and board of directors, not the consumer as they would have you believe. Meanwhile, we don't hardly produce anything anymore that is not service related, and we continue to lose the expertise to produce or manufacture something.

I agree with the argument that at this time, Honda is more of an American product than either Ford or GM... or Dell and Micron for that matter. And the price and quality remain very competitive.

I agree with the argument that at this time, Honda is more of an American product than either Ford or GM... or Dell and Micron for that matter. And the price and quality remain very competitive.

So if GM or Ford were to close up shop, who's economy would be effected the most? The US economy or the European/Asian/South American economy?

What if Toyota or Honda went bellyup? Would it be the Japanese economy or the US economy? Whatever manufacturing occurs in the US for Toyota or Honda or Nissan...it dwarfs in comparison to those of the big 2.5.

Listen i own a Nissan, one built in the US...but if you purchase Toyota/Honda/Nissan et al...enjoy it, treat it right but don't kid yourself thinking it's an American auto...it's not.

But that's okay...nothing to be ashamed of.

Oh, and the Bose system in my Nissan is quite good...just to keep on topic...

Listen i own a Nissan, one built in the US...but if you purchase Toyota/Honda/Nissan et al...enjoy it, treat it right but don't kid yourself thinking it's an American auto...it's not.

But that's okay...nothing to be ashamed of.
Good point. I think some of the posters are trying to make themselves feel morally correct for not buying GM/Ford by trying to say Honda/Toyota is more beneficial to the US economy than GM/Ford.

Reality is, GM/Ford are not building new factories because Honda/Toyota are eating market share. Don't be ashamed to buy Japanese, just don't pretend your doing the American economy any favors.

So if GM or Ford were to close up shop, who's economy would be effected the most? The US economy or the European/Asian/South American economy?

What if Toyota or Honda went bellyup? Would it be the Japanese economy or the US economy? Whatever manufacturing occurs in the US for Toyota or Honda or Nissan...it dwarfs in comparison to those of the big 2.5.

Listen i own a Nissan, one built in the US...but if you purchase Toyota/Honda/Nissan et al...enjoy it, treat it right but don't kid yourself thinking it's an American auto...it's not.

But that's okay...nothing to be ashamed of.

Oh, and the Bose system in my Nissan is quite good...just to keep on topic...

I think that this is a good question to consider. GM/Ford/Dodge production in the US is still significant, true. Unfortunately, at the rate that they keep laying off and moving production and support overseas, the negative impact of the reductions from these two corporations is starting to be felt at many levels in Detroit and elsewhere. The reduction doesn't only affect these two corporations and the local commerce where they reside. It also affects the industries that support their operations and their employees directly or indirectly. And unfortunately, we are quickly moving in a direction of significant negative impact, not only locally, but nationally. It is part of the so called "National Wal-mart economy" where everything sold is made in China or imported from somewhere else, rather than made by the local economy. Again, this is not unique to the auto industry. The same can be said about almost any kind of manufacturing that used to take place in the US.

I believe that what I said was that at this point in time, I would agree more with those that argue that right now, Honda is more of an American product than either GM or Ford. I never stated that Honda is in any way "American". They are certainly not, (other than were production of some of their cars take place"). My argument as stated in a previous post was, why should I buy a car manufactured elsewhere just because it has the name brand of an American owned corporation? What is the benefit to me as a consumer? Price? I could argue that I can buy a comparable quality or better product from other auto manufacturers. Pride on an American manufactured product? That went out the window in the mid 1980s when people started to realize that their "American" cars where about 60% or so manufactured elsewhere. About the only thing that counts right now is price, quality, and return on investment. Again, if I'm going to buy an auto that is about 75% or more manufactured out of the country, I might as well buy a Volkswagen or a well built Honda that is at least assembled in Ohio.

Maybe it's time to kill this thread........

Another over simplification....
Oh if that were true...the money paid for production, subcontracting, and design obviously stays in the country which provided the service....any profit may find it's way back here, but seeing that Ford and GM are not as profitable as they once were...that money is minimized. A way those moneys involved in production find there way back here, is purchase of goods and services from America....and being that we are running massive trade deficits....more is lost than returns. Ford/GM are also reinvesting funds in other countries for future production...
It could be argued that at this point in time, Toyota and Honda are more "American" than GM as their investment in production here exceeds that of GM. Mainly because they have the money to do so.....Ford/GM are not domestic, Toyota and Honda (which produces the most widely exported sedan from America, the Accord which helps the trade deficit) is not foreign. They are all global and "Detroit" is lucky to see profits from from their baseball team, let alone the auto industry which is moving production and PROFITS overseas as we speak. Rent the movie about the Enron scandal (Smartest men in the Room) to give you an idea how easily money is moved from one place to another, it's not coming here. Our major companies are becoming a nation of Enrons, with eventually, no production, a nation of phantom wholesalers and consumers....trying to reroute what global funds are available back here.
On that note, and while we're off topic, I read this article (http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/03/19/8402324/index.htm) on CNN's Web site titled:
Toyota: America's best car company

Toyota has become a red-white-and-blue role model. How? By understanding Americans better than Detroit does.

About the only thing that counts right now is price, quality, and return on investment.

Maybe because the horse is out of the barn, but had we worked harder years ago to keep manufacturing rolling along in this country and staying competitive, we may not have to soon face the fact that as China's standard of living increases so will the costs of those goods and soon many peoples walmart incomes won't be able to pay for walmart goods. China won't be so stupid as to fall into the affluence trap having seen what it did to us and they will use the real threat of starvation as a way to keep wage increases for unskilled workers from getting too high, they know they'll need to keep that endless supply of cheap, expendable labor just happy enough they have a tin roof, some fish and rice.
They try to unionize and ask for benifits and a tank will roll over them.

Ah yes, we love baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Toyota cars...i don't think so...

and if it took talking about this subject to kill another Bose bashing thread, then it should of been done 500 posts ago... :-)

Ah yes, we love baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Toyota cars...i don't think so...

and if it took talking about this subject to kill another Bose bashing thread, then it should of been done 500 posts ago... :-)


Agree...

Back on theme... good music on good music equipment...

I had the same question as the original poster; why all the hate for Bose? I couldn't understand because I've actually been in Bose stores and listened to their systems and liked what I heard. The sound seemed very tight, impactful, and bass-heavy to me. I like these qualities in something I'm listening to. I have mild hyperacusis (extra sensitivity to sound, esp. to higher frequencies) in my right ear, so production of fine detail, rich highs, and raw power aren't as important to me.

To compare to the Bose systems, at home I have an aging Pioneer VSX-D912K reciever that I have paired with JBL Northrige floorstandings and center, a JBL PB10 sub, and some Fluance speakers as surrounds. Maybe it's the layout of my room, maybe it's that I never took a sound meter to it, or maybe the cobbling together of different brands/series is just sloppy, but I've never been particularly impressed. The sound never struck me as particularly coherent or intense. Sure the volume could go to insane levels, but I enjoed sitting in a Bose showroom more, despite having paid a pretty penny for my system at home.

So what's my deal? Does my system sound like it should give the mediocre performance I've experienced? Or do I just need therapy for thinking that Bose sounds better than what I've got?

I've actually been in Bose stores and listened to their systems and liked what I heard.
THEIR SYSTEM WITH NO OTHERS FOR REFERANCE COMPARISON, SET-UP TO THEIR BENIFIT , AND LIKELY USING RECORDINGS DESIGNED TO SHOWCASE THEIR STRENGTHS.

I have mild hyperacusis (extra sensitivity to sound, esp. to higher frequencies) in my right ear, so production of fine detail, rich highs, and raw power aren't as important to me.
Certainly this gives them an advantage.

Maybe it's the layout of my room, maybe it's that I never took a sound meter to it, or maybe the cobbling together of different brands/series is just sloppy, but I've never been particularly impressed.
Voice match your system, and properly set-up (and treat , if neccesary) your room. But, it could also easily be that you don't like the gear you have, you should get out and audition more..

I
So what's my deal? Does my system sound like it should give the mediocre performance I've experienced? Or do I just need therapy for thinking that Bose sounds better than what I've got?
A real bogus thought that can easily be shot full of holes but.....I feel the aging process changes everything, including your ability to hear, music preference etc. That Bose systems sound good to you may be a phase you'll either have to give into or grow out of...just make sure if you like a sound, hold on to your wallet and audition others as well that can give you the sound you like for a price you can live with.....a "smart" Bose line stating that many speaker specs. are relatively useless and only A/B comparisons are valid....agree. Then, they make it so difficult to make those comparisons. Sharp ? Human mind is very forget....at the very least, take "your" favorite music to audition sessions.

Then, they make it so difficult to make those comparisons.
They're not the only ones.

Anyone here ever heard Sonab/Carlsson speakers?

Mike

I didn't mean to bash Bose. If it sounds good to YOU, then that's what really matters. I think the biggest thing I have against Bose is a lot of people make un-informed decisions based on reputation. They just assume Bose is the be all end all and most sales people (if they work on commission) aren't going to dissuade them. I can tell you from my experience as a sales person, it is a lot easier and less time consuming to sell an all in one Bose system than to take a customer by the hand and lead them around the store demonstrating all the different combinations that are available to them. But, if you are price conscious and looking for a better overall sound, shop around and listen to other things that are out there. If you do your research and you STILL like the Bose the best, than go for it.

Speaking of small speakers.....Orb speakers seem to be appealing to a lot of people...I've read the reviews, but can't be convinced they don't have similar limitations as Bose Acoustimass system, though with bigger drivers. It seems they can handle a lower crossover allowing you to go with another brand sub., but would do even worse on the high end (directional) with the larger drivers....are these valid observations ? Otherwise they are appealing. Has anyone done an A/B comparison between the above mentioned. None in my area to hear....

I can tell you from my experience as a sales person, it is a lot easier and less time consuming to sell an all in one Bose system than to take a customer by the hand and lead them around the store demonstrating all the different combinations that are available to them. But, if you are price conscious and looking for a better overall sound, shop around and listen to other things that are out there.

i am also in sales and if a customer comes to me and states he wants product A then i'm going to sell him product A (it is easier as you stated and if he is unhappy with his purchase after a while then he cant blame me.) If he comes and says to me "what is the best product i can buy for this $ amount". i would then let him know my professional opinion and would be there if he had any after purchase concerns with quality and functionality.

If you criticise Bose, you are called a Bose Basher…
So if you criticise Polk are you a Polk Poker?
Wharfedale Whacker has a nice ring?
B & O Banger?
Kef Kicker?
Thiel Thumper?
Tannoy Tonker?
Maybe JBL and PSB get let off because it’s just too difficult?

Ah, just thoughtless drivel!

Mvh
Mike

-------------------------------
"Nothing matters very much and very little matters at all" Arthur James Balfour.
"But Music is nice" me.

Lots of Bose bashers. There are lots for B&W bashers as well. How about B&W speakers - They have a Mini theatre series. M1 speakers with AS2 Sub makes a good home theatre system. Compact. Looks nice. Good sound. and same price range. ANy comments on these B&W's? http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1478&terid=1479
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/med/Libraries/3/MT-20_l2_w817_h328.jpg

Many years ago a fellow co-worker asked my opinion about Bose speakers. He had his mind set on a pair of 502s (circa 1977) so I told him if he liked how they sounded then buy them and don't listen to any of us "experts". He was very proud of his bose 502s and they sounded fine for their day. I think they had a 10 inch woofer and a pair of cone tweeters angled out from the sides.

When I was building loudspeakers as a hobby I use to have catalogs of raw drivers for mounting in our enclosures. At the time the average 1" dome tweeter ran $15-25 each and was the same quality as the manufactured systems of the day. Sadly the tweeters that Bose uses cost $2-4 each and the Bose woofers were around $7 each compared to $15-30 for typical medium quality woofers.
Like some of the other posters have pointed out Bose does use the cheapest components on the market.

I personally would not buy Bose, but hey if you like them, buy them and be happy with your purchase. Choosing loudspeakers is a very personal decision. There is always someone who just can't see listening to anything but his/her $10,000 (insert name here) loudspeakers. ;)

Lots of Bose bashers. There are lots for B&W bashers as well. How about B&W speakers - They have a Mini theatre series. M1 speakers with AS2 Sub makes a good home theatre system. Compact. Looks nice. Good sound. and same price range. ANy comments on these B&W's? http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=1478&terid=1479
http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/med/Libraries/3/MT-20_l2_w817_h328.jpg
My brother-in-law went for these after I told him that for the price of Bose, he could get better sound. For a small speaker system, they do very well. The mids and highs are clear, and the sub puts out quite a bit of decent bass. I only heard them in a home theater setup, so I can't comment on music. However, they do fill the room with sound for movies, even in stereo mode. I haven't heard many great sub/sat systems, but these are up there with my Gallo Micros, although different.

About a year ago I was shopping for my first real set-up and I bought Bose 301's and the Bose center channel. Sounded good in the store, took them home and they've been nothing but disapointing.

Now it's a year later and I'm looking to replace them already... same experience with a set of Bose Tri-Ports, the first time I heard the (much cheaper) Grado SR-80 I couldn't believe I'd been suckered into buying marketing.

I've never met anyone who actually preferred Bose once they'd been exposed to alternatives, but they could exist and more power to 'em.

I was thoroughly disappointed when I read that Ferrari is going to outfit some of its cars with a Bose audio system (http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070315/FREE/70313001&SearchID=73276449096349). What a shame and poor use of money. :(

I wouldn't doubt that a $10k (or less) custom audio system could easily outperform that Bose system.

This just came to mind while reading some of the above. I like to go to Hot Rod shows when they come around.It is obvious that some of the people spend big bucks on their cars for whatever reasons, but i don't hear them standing around bashing others. Just an observation.

This is a joke right? I used to be very into cars and associated with alot of guys who had big bucks tied up in their rides, vintage muscle, modern you name it and one of the biggest battles out there is Ford vs. Chevy with a few Mopar guys slinging the mud as well...

There are always products that generate certain and often warranted negative responses...Bose, Harley, Cadillac (until recently), Mercedes, Jaguar, Land Rover, Montblanc, Rolex, Intel, Nvidia..I cannot think of one "interest" or hobby that has its "catalyst" brand that sparks all sorts of heated discussion...typically they are the most sought after products by the noobs and or status seekers, their quality isn't nearly as good as one would expect based on their price and perception, and virtually every time the next competitor offers something as good, if not better for a considerable cost savings.

As we all criticize the Bose marketing practice, let's equally give fair time on other blogs to products like Chrysler/Mercedes Benz. The hooplaa over the "hemi", the most overrated and hyped auto engine of all time that is a total non performer in efficiency....and Mercedes Benz who build the most unreliable vehicles in recent auto history (and overpriced ?)...Bose is overpriced and hyped too.....but they have shown at least ave reliability. Just realize that this stuff goes on throughout the "free enterprise" system....and if you believe an ad., any ad., on face value, Bose or any other audio product advertisement , it's a sad commentary on your
"consumer intellect".
No one has to tell the truth in an ad....

Just because their stuff works though doesn't make them better than your two examples...with Chrystler, last I checked they were mostly "affordable", and arguably Mercedes is just as much of a joke as Bose is on their lower end, their salvation is that their upper tier cars are still "awesome" to a degree (S Class and AMG) though I would never own one as imho there are better choices. But yes, today ads are laiden with Bull.

Let me tell a Bose story that reflects much of what has been said here, this is a true story!

A couple of years ago one of the know it alls in the office informed me in a highly condescending tone that they had bought the ultimate sound system...get this, a Bose 321. The person stated quite matter of factly that they would put it aganist any system costing thousands more. After reminding me that I was "supposed to be some big home theater guy" I politely informed the person that Bose could not measure up to any system costing what he got suckered for on the 321, about $1,000. Oh yeah, what do you have Mr Home Theater?? I declined to answer. Anyhow a few months go by and he comes to my office and says that maybe I was right, he had gone to a friends home who had an Onkyo HTIB setup for less than he paid and it sounded awesome. (I can just hear this guy putting down his friends system... then he hears the simple, cheaper Onkyo HTIB) Following that evening he decided to spill his guts to me about his Bose. No surprise the Bose would not play Disney movies at all, stopped playing almost any DVD he bought, and did the same with CD-R. It would not play a DVD recorded from his friends standalone Panny DVD Recorder. It would shut down even when playing radio or from Cable box. He called Bose and they suggested he take a discount on yet another, newer model crap trap. They also suggested he send it to them and they would replace the CD/DVD player with a newer one for $650!!!

Two things here: Any small time electronics repair shop could have replaced the $35 multiplayer in the Bose. Most importantly that is not what was wrong. I felt sorry for him despite his arrogance and saw it as a chance to help a brainwashed Boser, I got the firmware / upgrade from the net installed several upgrades to the console and his crapola multiplayer and voila!! Disney movies play, DVD-Rs play, CD-Rs play, no more shutting down etc. So now my arrogant co-worker has been spanked and burned. He is now free to listen to his music and play his DVDs and enjoy them in all his sub standard glory. I suggested he sell the crap on e-bay and use the money to buy a real system, ie one with true 5.1 and an actual progressive scan DVD for his ED plasma sold to him by the same rip off that sold him the Bose. (They told him it was HD when it is actually only 480p BTW.) Should have seen his face when I informed him of that! So here is a guy that fell, albeit inadverdently for the Bose line, only to find his way to true HiFi! I am grateful that I had the opportunity to help this poor guy find his way out of the darkness that is Bose, into the light of the true hifi world.

He asked me if I knew anyone who wanted to buy his newly upgraded 321.
"I doubt it."

^ Nice story, mike. Too many people get suckered by Bose marketing. If they're happy with it, great. But in your coworker's case, he realized he wasn't happy, and after swallowing his ego, got some help thanks to you and saw the light. :)

So now my arrogant co-worker has been spanked and burned.

LOL!

That line really made me laugh. Good story. Wow, first an ED TV sold as HD and then a grand on some Blows? Poor bastard.

Too many people get suckered by Bose marketing
But I thought they sounded fantastic!

This thread comes back from the dead so often, I think they should make a new horror movie about it.

This thread comes back from the dead so often, I think they should make a new horror movie about it.
The horror movie's name would be: Bose. :eek: :eek: :eek: (That's supposed to indicate horror movies' triple synthesizer sound effect.)

bose should change their slogan to this


Bose: At least we're better than coby.

Mike - hilarious story!
Anyways, I actually have 2 Bose horror stories to tell. :eek:

1. 10 years ago, my dad bought a bose acoustimass system for *only* $800. OK, sounds better than anything at the time - of course! Except that it doesn't decode DTS, the CD player in it is broken, the display on the "receiver" is broken, the power supply is actually in the subwoofer and not the receiver.

Finally we heard a loud buzzing in december of '05 right after we got our wonderful panny ... it was time to get a new sound system. Based on consumer reports advice (I know I know! I now know better at this point, but still...) we got the cheap onkyo 780 htib. It totally blew away the crappy Bose system, which never provided adequate channel separation, clarity, connectivity, bass, etc. I'm not saying that I'd get an htib ever again - I won't. But that this cheap Onkyo htib can easily beat the Bose says something about that company's quality.

2. I go to a Catholic school and we have masses every couple months in our gym. And guess what kind of speakers they got at our brand new school? Bose!! And guess what? There's terrible static, constant dropouts, terrible clarity (it's a gym, but still...). It looks pretty - but It's utter crap! Girls ask me, "Doesn't Bose make good speakers?" and I go "uh..." before going into a long-winded rant. I like to think that the diocese of San Diego declared bankruptcy because they decided to use overpriced Bose speakers in the gym. :D

If anyone still wonders "Why not Bose" after reading all these stories, well ... I'll leave it at that. ;)

bose should change their slogan to this


Bose: At least we're better than coby.

Lol, at least that I would believe.

My Bose 901's were awesome, of course that was in 1985 coupled with my pioneer quadraphonic receiver.......

....and we smoked a lot of dope then which could have clouded my judgement somewhat.....

Mike - hilarious story!
Anyways, I actually have 2 Bose horror stories to tell. :eek:

1. 10 years ago, my dad bought a bose acoustimass system for *only* $800. OK, sounds better than anything at the time - of course! Except that it doesn't decode DTS, the CD player in it is broken, the display on the "receiver" is broken, the power supply is actually in the subwoofer and not the receiver.

Finally we heard a loud buzzing in december of '05 right after we got our wonderful panny ... it was time to get a new sound system. Based on consumer reports advice (I know I know! I now know better at this point, but still...) we got the cheap onkyo 780 htib. It totally blew away the crappy Bose system, which never provided adequate channel separation, clarity, connectivity, bass, etc. I'm not saying that I'd get an htib ever again - I won't. But that this cheap Onkyo htib can easily beat the Bose says something about that company's quality.

2. I go to a Catholic school and we have masses every couple months in our gym. And guess what kind of speakers they got at our brand new school? Bose!! And guess what? There's terrible static, constant dropouts, terrible clarity (it's a gym, but still...). It looks pretty - but It's utter crap! Girls ask me, "Doesn't Bose make good speakers?" and I go "uh..." before going into a long-winded rant. I like to think that the diocese of San Diego declared bankruptcy because they decided to use overpriced Bose speakers in the gym. :D

I have read a lot of bad Bose stories, but these two take the cake. I'm not defending Bose here, but I would doubt any of those issues are speaker related. Oh BTW, that $800 Acoustimass you got doesn't come with a CD player. Acoustimass are soeaker only systems. It really is amazing that people hate Bose so much they actually start to make stuff up.

My Bose 901's were awesome, of course that was in 1985 coupled with my pioneer quadraphonic receiver.......

....and we smoked a lot of dope then which could have clouded my judgement somewhat.....
My 901's from 1975 are still awesome. Haven't smoked any dope since 1978. And they still sound great. :D Would I buy anything Bose today? Not a chance.

I will give Bose credit for one thing, they are selling people on sound. They are getting people to actually listen to what they are hearing. The demos, the infomercials, they are all centered around listening, not just sound - but listening.

Granted, the Bose systems are not something most of us would. Then again we have heard better. For Joe6pack that is used to the tiny drivers in his 25inch stereo tv - a 3-2-1 or Acoustimass system SHOULD knock his socks off.

Why? He was taught to listen. Now will he take that knowledge with him in the future and see the light? Who knows. ;)

Cheers,
Russ

Bose 901's macintosh amp...vintage. Of course...Freebird sounded awesome on it.

Anyway...they still sell the 901s today. And they sound just like they did in 1975. The difference is...lots of things have changed since then (like your ears) . I'll tell you, those old JBLs are STILL some of my fav speakers. I just love the way they sound...or I should say..color the sound. I still like them today. Nothing like scooped midrange to smooth things out. But, they sound good to me..because "that" was the sound.

The history of "audiophelia" and technology marketing looks something akin to the "set it and forget it" infomercials. We look back today and laugh at some of the things "some of us" spent a lot of money on back in the day. (but with fond memories :) If I only had my bean bag chair..I'd be set.

You never know..years from now...somebody may be harping on all the people buying some other "current' brand based on it's reputation from past. You can't worry about that. But, I can tell you..that any summary view of audio marketing trends and history....would tell you..that they are mostly all so full of crap...they can't keep the flys from coming out. That's true! ACME and RONCO have NOTHING on these folks :) Everybody has a "new" idea of what music "should" sound like. The problem is...not judging any...that not all of them catch on.

I say that with all the best intentions. And with that said....buy whatever sounds good to you, that you don't mind spending the money on..and enjoy it. That's the bottom line...what sounds good to you and fits the purpose of your system. Who cares what anybody else thinks. They'll all be laughing at the crap they spent $$$ on today in a few years anyway. (particularly if they bought it because somebody else told them it was good ..etc). All I know is...many, many years ago..a friend of mine..had bose 901s and a macintosh pre-amp and amp. I still remember the first time I heard it and he cranked it up to "11". It was like audio hi-def. And "that" was with LPs. ...which sounded awesome btw.

It was so loud and clean..almost to the point of making me panic. (I felt like running). I could almost hear the air sucking out of the room. Maybe it was the columbian red-bud? Who knows.

Let me add to that in a clarifying, non-Kentucky windage way, what people are trying to tell you is that the "Bose sound" is an "old sound" that's past it's prime...had it's day..etc. that "bose" the company...is still trying to repackage, remarket and sell for $$$ in a modern market.

And further, that Bose still charges a lot of money for it..like it was something "new" but it's not. And who cares? (other than those looking to get the "newest" sound for their dollar? ...and what does "that" mean? Like Ella Fitzgerald CDs cost the same as some current BS CD?
Which would you rather listen to? That's the point. Just buy what sounds good to you. Don't worry about what others think about it.

I am building a system and listened to many satellite speakers an subs but the 2 systems that received the highest reviews are the Orbs mod 2 an super woofer and the kef kht3005. has anyone heard either system my tv is a 50 in pioneer plasma an elite receiver oppo dvd

I need a small speaker bw m1 are a bit to big while Anthony gallo lack the quality in the sub.
yamaha polk an bose are only ok

I am building a system and listened to many satellite speakers an subs but the 2 systems that received the highest reviews are the Orbs mod 2 an super woofer and the kef kht3005. has anyone heard either system my tv is a 50 in pioneer plasma an elite receiver oppo dvd

I need a small speaker bw m1 are a bit to big while Anthony gallo lack the quality in the sub.
yamaha polk an bose are only ok
You're better off starting a new thread in this speaker sub-forum. Also, just read owners' threads for various speaker brands and read what the owners think of what they bought.

I am building a system and listened to many satellite speakers an subs but the 2 systems that received the highest reviews are the Orbs mod 2 an super woofer and the kef kht3005. has anyone heard either system my tv is a 50 in pioneer plasma an elite receiver oppo dvd

I need a small speaker bw m1 are a bit to big while Anthony gallo lack the quality in the sub.
yamaha polk an bose are only ok
For the Gallos, you can opt to use a different brand of sub. I use an SVS with Micros and A'divas, which works perfectly well. The SVS goes down to 18 Hz at -3dB, and has plenty of headroom in my setup.

Where? My opinion is that the only meaningful place is in your own home. If you can find a dealer that will allow you a trial period so you can compare their items to Bose items during the 30 day free trial period, great, But I haven't found a dealer like that... perhaps your experience is different.



For everyones information. I am helping my business partner put together a HT/Music setup.

We are using my setup as a litmus:

Denon AVR-85
PSB Century 500i for Front L/R
PSB Century 300 for Rears, and 1 for Center
PSB Alpha Subsonic1 for Sub woofer.

Now, this setup cost me around $1400 in I believe 96'.

We picked up an Acoustimass 10 system at the Bose store in Cleveland. It lasted almost a day and a half. It's cost was $999 and tax.

There wasn't much good I could say for the Bose system. While I know it was a bit cheaper, it's also 10 years newer.

Source materials that we used:

Video:
Master and Commander, Far Side of the World
Black Hawk Down
Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring
Heat
Saving Private Ryan
Enemy At the Gates

Audio:

Eric Johnsons' Ah Via Musicom
Holtz's Planets
Micheal Hedges' Tap Root
Van Halen 1984

Bose sounds thin. There is a hole in the midrange that simply can not be adjusted for (that I could figure out). Imaging for dialog actually wasn't bad in movies, but when you get to a scene like the bank shoot out in Heat, the Balrog in LOTOR, The ship battles in Master and Commander etc, the Bose system threw in the towel in my opinion. Musically, Bose just isn't there IMHO. They do advertise it as a HT/Music system.

My 10 year old system simply dominated.

If I look at Bose in the light of what Apple does. I guess they have figured out a market that wants an un-obtrusive audio setup without going through the effort of putting in-wall speakers in. But I don't know how you could listen to the Acoustimass 10 system and any other competing package ( av123, BIC, Ascend, HSU, Axiom) and be happy with it. I haven't heard the others that I have mentioned 'YET'. But I don't think my instinct that they will all be better than the Bose system is much off the mark.

Forgive me of any spelling/grammatical errors in advance.

I forgot to mention that the $1400 included the receiver. I don't remember what I paid for it. I think $250-$300 ish (open box ).

no highs, no lows, must be bose!

In 1973 (I'm pretty sure), Bose had a loaner program where you could borrow a 901 system (two speakers and active equalizer) for up to a week and were challenged to compare them to "any speaker, any size, any price." The speakers even had handles on top to make them easier to carry from place to place. I was considering new speakers at the time and took them up on the challenge. The 901s sounded good in my bedroom, much better than the 8" Pioneer 2-ways I had at the time, but then I shopped them around town. Among others, I compared them to a pair of Klipschorns, even though those were way outside my consideration ("...any size, any price...").

Although they sounded good in comparison with inexpensive speakers in a small room, the 901s simply couldn't stand up to A/B comparisons with good (albeit larger and often more - sometimes much more - expensive) speakers, especially against the Khorns. When I returned them to the loaning dealer and told him what I had compared them to, and what I had concluded, his reaction was, essentially, "Well... duh! What did you expect?" The challenge was hollow; I guess they figured that people would assume that issuing the challenge was enough, and not actually do the comparison themselves. Too bad they couldn't live up to the promise because the compact 901s would have been great since I was in college at the time, living in apartments and moving fairly often. The program did not last long, IIRC.

The experience made me appreciate how "effortless" the sound from some of the large Klipsch, Bozak, Altec, JBL, and probably some others I've forgotten, speakers of the day was - in comparison it just seemed like the Bose 901s were "working too hard" trying to produce a big sound, and not succeeding - at least not in comparison. Like I said, in a smallish room against limited competition they sounded good, but other speakers would surely have sounded much better there, and especially so in larger rooms. I waited until I could afford something better a few years later after I had finished grad school, had more money, and stopped moving around so much.

It was a useful, and revealing, experience, though.

Back in the late '80s I bought a pair of Bose 601's while in the military. They were the ones with the 2 8" woofers and 4 tweeters pointing in different directions. I sold them in 2001 to a friend. The 601's I believe are an exception to the Bose rule, I never really "got" the 901's after reading countless reviews on how good they were, I always thought they were just alright. I listened to an old pair of 501's and they were dismal, the 301's were OK but not great. Anything they make today I wouldn't even consider. But somehow by accident maybe, they got those early 601's right. They had excellent sound staging, rivaling and sometimes bettering my PSB 6t's, and had a very good sound quality to them.

I'm not sure the point of this, I guess it depends on your listening tastes. BTW I love the Bose commercial about the 2.1 system when the "expert" comes on and basically says that if you compare the Bose 2.1 system with a TV speaker you'll be "blown away". Classic, just classic.

Don't you just love testimonials?

I was wondering how long Bose Corp. has been around. People here are saying that they bought stuff for them since 1973. So I Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose_Corporation)'ed it: since 1964. :eek: The following paragraphs in that Wikipedia entry was pretty interesting.

Opinions about Bose

A market study published in March 2006 by the independent market research firm Forrester Research reported that Bose's brand name was among the most trusted (by the US population) of consumer-electronics or computer brand names.[25]

In 1968, Amar Bose presented a classic paper to the Audio Engineering Society entitled: "On the Design, Measurement and Evaluation of Loudspeakers" available from the AES at a small charge. (See: Audio Engineering Society site [26]). Following the logic in this paper, Bose Corporation has endeavored to strike an economic balance between cost and performance to provide high quality as judged by the average listener whose criteria of quality include faithful reproduction of the listener's experience in a live performance, i.e. a dominance of the reverberant sound field in the listening space, ie. a typical home environment. (see audiophile beliefs). Bose's systems have their critics, such as Stereophile [27], who say (in their review of a particular product) that in their opinion the system was unlikely to appeal to perfectionists with a developed taste in precise imaging, detail and timbre and that the shortfall in these qualities was an excessive price to pay for the improvement in impact and ambience generated by the large proportion of reflected sound. The review also said that while the system Stereophile magazine reviewed gave a more realistic reproduction of natural ambience than any other speaker system, that they found it otherwise unexceptional.

Bose is widely regarded as a producer of high-end audio systems [28][29][30][31][32]. However, while Bose is viewed as a producer of "high-end" products, at least one reviewer does not think that Bose is a producer of high-end audio systems, because it didn't fulfill his expectations of what a high-end system should be.[33].

Looks like the the bosophiles have infiltrated wikipedia as well. Just about every one of their systems is held in serious doubt with regards to its price performance ratio by a whole lot more than 1 reviewer.

Hi everyone! I have the Bose® Acoustimass® 15 Series II with the upgraded 6th speaker array. I wanted to add a 7th speaker with my new Sony 5200ES. The base unit does not have the connection for the 7th speaker. Does anyone know why I cant hook up the speakers directly to the receiver? The manual says not to do this. Is it ohm related?

Many carcompanies already do that with "high end" Bose systems.... :D

Drives me nuts that a lot of the car stereo "upgrades" are Bose. Freakin' sucks. I'm glad to see some auto companies are getting away from Bose finally and going with pioneer, HK, etc. Not that i could ever afford an M3, but i think they were going with HK for a while.

I have read a lot of bad Bose stories, but these two take the cake. I'm not defending Bose here, but I would doubt any of those issues are speaker related. Oh BTW, that $800 Acoustimass you got doesn't come with a CD player. Acoustimass are soeaker only systems. It really is amazing that people hate Bose so much they actually start to make stuff up.
Dude, I didn't make anything up! :mad: OK, if this makes you feel better ... we got some kind of Bose HTIB 10 years ago for a "great" discount of $800 (which was a lot cheaper than its msrp) from our uncle. Anyways, the receiver, whose power supply was actually in the subwoofer for some weird reason, did have a CD player in it, even though that stopped working a year after we got it. It did have a display that stopped working a year after that. In addition, the system could not decode DTS and the speakers could not hook up to any other receiver if and when the receiver stopped working - that's how it was designed.

As for the gym speakers sounding bad ... you're partially correct. It ended up actually being some kind of connection problem ... they didn't have the right wiring, plugs or something. Still, it makes me kind of sad that our school could have bought better speakers for a better price for its purposes.

Why does Bose sound bad? Because each speaker uses a single 2.5" driver. Simple physics dictates that such a driver can neither replicate high frequencies nor lower mid frequencies well. It can only do upper mid frequencies correctly.

I agree, a definite limitation...now why are so many going ape over Orbs with just a 3" driver.....do they have their own self imposed limitations as well ? Even more beaming at high frequencies with a larger driver. Enlighten me, as I haven't heard them in this area.
Generally, I'm not a fan of any single driver system. Are Orbs getting a pass ?

If I look at Bose in the light of what Apple does.

Hey, that comparison is three years out of date! :-)

I agree, a definite limitation...now why are so many going ape over Orbs with just a 3" driver.....do they have their own self imposed limitations as well ? Even more beaming at high frequencies with a larger driver. Enlighten me, as I haven't heard them in this area.
Generally, I'm not a fan of any single driver system. Are Orbs getting a pass ?

I'm not a Bose fan, but neither am I a Bose basher. But this is a great question and one that deserves an answer. Perhaps it should be posted in its own thread to see what comes about? I fear that many have left this thread long ago and a new post on why Orb, and others, seem to be getting a pass would be interesting.

I agree, a definite limitation...now why are so many going ape over Orbs with just a 3" driver.....do they have their own self imposed limitations as well ? Even more beaming at high frequencies with a larger driver. Enlighten me, as I haven't heard them in this area.
Generally, I'm not a fan of any single driver system. Are Orbs getting a pass ?
The difference between the cube speakers and the Orbs/Gallos is the quality of the driver and the design of the enclosure. To reference others' opinions on the cube speakers, the drivers are cheap and the plastic enclosure is quite resonant.

I don't know about Orbs, but the Gallo speakers seem to be well made. The 3" regular drivers are designed to handle quite a bit of power for such a small driver, 50W full range, 100W with bass management. Here are some numbers from the regular Micro that I obtained in my smallish room:

In room response (numbers tested using AVIA, test tones, RS SPL meter, 0 dB reference set at 250 Hz, on table stands):
115Hz: In-Room -3 dB (listening position, calibrated)
130Hz: 1 meter -3 dB (tested in center of room, away from other objects)
150-200Hz: In-Room +/- 0.5 dB (listening position, calibrated)
18kHz: -2dB (listening position, calibrated)
19kHz: -5dB (listening position, calibrated)

The titanium drivers in the Gallo speakers seem to be even better. I haven't tested the A'diva Ti (5" sphere) with tones yet, but they have much more high bass impact than the Micros. Again, it seems the cost and R&D of these went into development of the driver, a titanium driver with paper dust cap and a 1" voice coil. They're pretty beefy at almost 2 pounds each, most of which is the driver.

You can't get around physics, but you can minimize the consequences of design compromises, which these small spheres seem to do. I'd be curious as to what others say on this topic as well- would make for a great thread!

Edited note: I'm not the most knowledgeable on this topic- I can just say what I've seen myself. I think they're amazing at what they do, but they are still a compromise.

Drives me nuts that a lot of the car stereo "upgrades" are Bose. Freakin' sucks. I'm glad to see some auto companies are getting away from Bose finally and going with pioneer, HK, etc. Not that i could ever afford an M3, but i think they were going with HK for a while.
Yep, that pi$$es me off as well when "premium" car stereos are Bose. Someone would be much better off saving that $1-2k upgrade and getting a far superior aftermarket solution for a fraction of the cost.

Yep, that pi$$es me off as well when "premium" car stereos are Bose. Someone would be much better off saving that $1-2k upgrade and getting a far superior aftermarket solution for a fraction of the cost.

You should really get PO'd at Caddy for naming a model after Bose and charging more than they should, just like their name sake...a turn around from the Subaru LL Bean. What's next.....a Honda Yamaha Spec Ed. ?

I'm not a Bose fan, but neither am I a Bose basher. But this is a great question and one that deserves an answer. Perhaps it should be posted in its own thread to see what comes about? I fear that many have left this thread long ago and a new post on why Orb, and others, seem to be getting a pass would be interesting.
I asked the question on the "Orb Thread"......no takers, no reply. It died a quick death there.

You should really get PO'd at Caddy for naming a model after Bose and charging more than they should, just like their name sake...a turn around from the Subaru LL Bean. What's next.....a Honda Yamaha Spec Ed. ?
LOL true, like Eddie Bauer Ford Expedition. :eek:

I like my Mark Levinson Lexus : )

Thank God Lexus didn't fall for the Bose crap campaign. :)

I like my Mark Levinson Lexus : )

sorry folks for the tangent; Tutmos, how many speakers are in the ML system?

Hi everyone! I have the Bose® Acoustimass® 15 Series II with the upgraded 6th speaker array. I wanted to add a 7th speaker with my new Sony 5200ES. The base unit does not have the connection for the 7th speaker. Does anyone know why I cant hook up the speakers directly to the receiver? The manual says not to do this. Is it ohm related?


Any thoughts on what I'm asking?

sorry folks for the tangent; Tutmos, how many speakers are in the ML system?


8 or 9 + sub. I've never pulled the grills off though so I couldn't tell you what the speakers are underneath.

Why not Bo$e?

I will be objective here and say this...

Because you have better built,better quality components and much more natural sounding speakers for much less.

Because for the same money you could get speakers that will help you open a window on music and not look at a dirty window that distorts,compresses and adds colorations.

I would point Paradigm and PSB as two alternatives that will leave in the proverbial dust what you can get from Bose.

And you have many others more worthy of your money than ...Bo$e

I went to Best Buy earlier today since I was in the area and I wanted to browse through the store. I was shaking my head at all the $1500 and $2000 Bose systems I saw them selling. Poor suckers who buy them. :rolleyes:

This is a joke right? I used to be very into cars and associated with alot of guys who had big bucks tied up in their rides, vintage muscle, modern you name it and one of the biggest battles out there is Ford vs. Chevy with a few Mopar guys slinging the mud as well...

.

nope. very true. the top audio outfit for the new Ferrari 599.

This is a joke right? I used to be very into cars and associated with alot of guys who had big bucks tied up in their rides, vintage muscle, modern you name it and one of the biggest battles out there is Ford vs. Chevy with a few Mopar guys slinging the mud as well...

There are always products that generate certain and often warranted negative responses...Bose, Harley, Cadillac (until recently), Mercedes, Jaguar, Land Rover, Montblanc, Rolex, Intel, Nvidia..I cannot think of one "interest" or hobby that has its "catalyst" brand that sparks all sorts of heated discussion...typically they are the most sought after products by the noobs and or status seekers, their quality isn't nearly as good as one would expect based on their price and perception, and virtually every time the next competitor offers something as good, if not better for a considerable cost savings.

hmmm.... not sure i'd put nvidia in that mix

8 or 9 + sub. I've never pulled the grills off though so I couldn't tell you what the speakers are underneath.

Thanks Tutmos. I ask since I ordered it with the car (don't have the car yet). Sales guy said 9, no-sub, and, the brochures say 11. Talk about inconsistent data :o

I went to Best Buy earlier today since I was in the area and I wanted to browse through the store. I was shaking my head at all the $1500 and $2000 Bose systems I saw them selling. Poor suckers who buy them. :rolleyes:

i am a best buy employee.

i have a full def tech setup in my game room.

i also run a bose 3.2.1 in my living room. why?

easy to set up

easy to use (for my parents who live with me)

the room is oddly shaped and a 5.1 setup is not possible.

we don't watch that many movies or entertain.

in my opinion bose is not a bad product. my mom who would never know how to turn on a receiver let alone set it to the right source likes the bose. am, fm and it plays cds. i would also take this system over any set of mirage speakers i have heard.

every market has its status good that usually is over priced and draws the ire of enthusiasts because,

1) they cannot afford it. in the speaker community this doesn't apply since most of us will spend considerably more to have a non bose setup.

2) Noobs like it. We want to set ourselves apart from the newbies and to feel like true afficionados we have to find and pump up other brands so when the noob buys said product we can then say, "eh i have so and so product. great story behind these guys. so and so product is too...."

You left out some examples like,

I don't like music

I don't like to listen to good sound

I like to buy overpriced junk

i am a best buy employee.

i have a full def tech setup in my game room.

i also run a bose 3.2.1 in my living room. why?

easy to set up

easy to use (for my parents who live with me)

the room is oddly shaped and a 5.1 setup is not possible.

we don't watch that many movies or entertain.

in my opinion bose is not a bad product. my mom who would never know how to turn on a receiver let alone set it to the right source likes the bose. am, fm and it plays cds. i would also take this system over any set of mirage speakers i have heard.

every market has its status good that usually is over priced and draws the ire of enthusiasts because,

1) they cannot afford it. in the speaker community this doesn't apply since most of us will spend considerably more to have a non bose setup.

2) Noobs like it. We want to set ourselves apart from the newbies and to feel like true afficionados we have to find and pump up other brands so when the noob buys said product we can then say, "eh i have so and so product. great story behind these guys. so and so product is too...."
You could save a lot of money by buying other brands mentioned in this thread, get a Logitech universal HTS remote control, and even have money left over for a pro to teach your parents on how to use the system and for him to program the macros on the remote control.

You left out some examples like,

I don't like music

I don't like to listen to good sound

I like to buy overpriced junk

Now wait guys...give the devil his due. The frequency range of FM radio is about 30 hz to 15K hz...about the maximum range produced by many Bose speakers. So, they are perfectly adaquate for that application....and if you do an A+B test with better speakers, you'll find little to choose between them and the Bose when listening to the radio. So I would argue that they are competitive as an FM radio source. So if some one asks me my opinion of many Bose speakers (esp. Acoustimass), they are as good as anything, if you have the bucks and only listen to the radio.

jesus this thread is still going on?

Now wait guys...give the devil his due. The frequency range of FM radio is about 30 hz to 15K hz...about the maximum range produced by many Bose speakers. So, they are perfectly adaquate for that application....and if you do an A+B test with better speakers, you'll find little to choose between them and the Bose when listening to the radio. So I would argue that they are competitive as an FM radio source. So if some one asks me my opinion of many Bose speakers (esp. Acoustimass), they are as good as anything, if you have the bucks and only listen to the radio.


That was a good one! :D

Ok so my parents had the bose lifestyle 20 system installed when they built their house 5 years ago. I was just down in the basement watching a movie and I thought it sounded like absolute crap. I got up to check out the connections... you wont believe this. The lifestyle 20 isnt really a 5.1 system. The connection between the DVD player and the bose box is teeny-weeny red white analog rca cables. So the L/R signal is going to the bose box and i guess its arbitrarily deciding what to send to the speakers.

So, is there anyway to fix this? There is a single cable in the back of the box that splits into all of the speakers. Can i just cut this open and plug it into a real receiver? My dad probably isnt up for buying a new Bose box thing that IS capable of real 5.1 so im hoping to be able to pick up a regular old sony 5.1 receiver and pluging these wires into it. Does anyone know how this works

Second of all, the HT guys who wired this house should be shot. Who would sell someone a stereo receiver for their home theater? It seems overtly dishonest.

thanks for any help

I convinced a couple a few weeks ago at a local Costco to go with a Pioneer system over a Bose system. They said that their friends had just gotten a Bose system and hadn't put it together and they were thinking about getting one too. I finally convinced them to get the Pioneer system and they went away skeptical, but happy.

I ran into them last weekend and they started thanking me. I had no idea who they were at first, but then they explained that they got their system together and were much more pleased with how their system sounded for less money than their friend's Bose system, which they said sounded terrible.

I've convinced quite a few people to go with Cambridge Soundworks over Bose and have had very similar results. There are a LOT of people who were very happy that they went with CSW over Bose. Sure, you get no "snob" appeal, but then again, what snob appeal is there with Blows, 'er I mean Bose?

Actually bose isnt a bad manufacturer. its that they overprice their gear
but the waveguide idea is taken from the folded horn concept, a single driver is mounted in front of a folded tube. open up a bose speaker and there are lots of chambers for resonance.

Also older bose speakers sound better than their new stuff. My orchestra teacher has a bose 5.1 system in the classroom and it sounds fairly good but not terrible like you'd beleive. just not the 1,000 dollar sound.

its your like buy what u want i have a pair of (your gonna bash me for this) soundesign wide-range towers that sound pretty good if you leave the on the floor.

Also the bose car sysems do sound a bit better than the no name brand systems they put in some cars. I know a guy who plays thumping techno all the time.

Ok so my parents had the bose lifestyle 20 system installed when they built their house 5 years ago. I was just down in the basement watching a movie and I thought it sounded like absolute crap. I got up to check out the connections... you wont believe this. The lifestyle 20 isnt really a 5.1 system. The connection between the DVD player and the bose box is teeny-weeny red white analog rca cables. So the L/R signal is going to the bose box and i guess its arbitrarily deciding what to send to the speakers.

So, is there anyway to fix this? There is a single cable in the back of the box that splits into all of the speakers. Can i just cut this open and plug it into a real receiver? My dad probably isnt up for buying a new Bose box thing that IS capable of real 5.1 so im hoping to be able to pick up a regular old sony 5.1 receiver and pluging these wires into it. Does anyone know how this works

Second of all, the HT guys who wired this house should be shot. Who would sell someone a stereo receiver for their home theater? It seems overtly dishonest.

thanks for any help


My grandparents got screwed out of a good chunk of money on a similar system a few years ago from Bose. I got on ebay and found them some older RT25 Polk bookshelf speakers and a matching sub with a Denon 1600 receiver, all for about $400, and they love it.

It's sad to see a fast talking salesman talk good people into overpriced crap. I wouldn't be able to sleep at night, as my grandparents asked very directed questions about the system, and were told complete lies by the Bose salesman at an outlet mall.

Actually bose isnt a bad manufacturer. its that they overprice their gear
but the waveguide idea is taken from the folded horn concept, a single driver is mounted in front of a folded tube. open up a bose speaker and there are lots of chambers for resonance.

Also older bose speakers sound better than their new stuff. My orchestra teacher has a bose 5.1 system in the classroom and it sounds fairly good but not terrible like you'd beleive. just not the 1,000 dollar sound.

its your like buy what u want i have a pair of (your gonna bash me for this) soundesign wide-range towers that sound pretty good if you leave the on the floor.

Also the bose car sysems do sound a bit better than the no name brand systems they put in some cars. I know a guy who plays thumping techno all the time.
My car came w/ a Bose sound system. Heck, it also came with a Bose "woofer". I play techno/trance a lot and it was pitiful listening to it in my car. There was no low end, even w/ their crappy woofer. I didn't want to spend a lot of $ or take up a lot of space in the hatch, so an excellent compromise I wound up getting was the Infinity BassLink 10" powered sub. It literally sounds 10 times better (on the low end) compared to w/o the sub. I saw the Bose woofer sitting in the spare tire donut area and it's literally the size of a grapefruit. It looks as pathetic as it sounds. :mad:

All this talk about in-car Bose systems has been a refreshing change of pace. I find it interesting how everybody thinks the factory Bose units have no bass. The Acura 3.2CL Type-S uses a 6 speaker Bose with no separate sub. It has way, way, too much bass. It is absolutely awful sounding bass...... muddy with no definition, but there's is so much of it! It's overbearing and is the only thing you can hear in the music. I'll admit the separation is quite good for a car system, and the primary vocals off the tweeters somehow manage to cut through the mud-sea of bass. At the lowest volume setting all you can hear is "bbbboooonnnnggggggg" sounds coming from the back of the car though......... :)

Fool. there can never be too much bass!

Fool. there can never be too much bass!
True that! Bass is like money: you can never have enough of it. :cool:

There are so much Bose thrashing here. The Bose speakers do sound decent and it is not that bad. The only thing is Bose speakers offer little value for your money.

I don't own any Lifestyle sytem and will never buy one due to the price. However, if a Lifestyle 48 system was to cost around $800, I will buy it in a heart beat.

The only way I'd ever buy Bose, like $800 for the Lifestyle 48 xadmin mentioned, is if I knew I could flip it for a quick profit. :cool:

I do not hate any product.
BOSE or no bose I always try to find a way to improve the function by adjusting. I like GPX yorx and never had a real problem out of them expet when it was something I did

To me it really dosnt matter what speakers I own or what someone els owns becaus it is THEIR speakers.

Also ABSOLOUTLY NO dynamic speaker is capable of producing frequency's perfectly.
Bose is not really bad its just not great. Anyways a thousand dollars for ANY speaker to me is a bit steep considering

A). It just sits there.
B)its a box with a few drivers in it.
C). not all 1000 dollar speakers By ANY manufacturer is ever going to make perfect sound.
its againsf physics. soundawves drop-off fby the time they get to your ears no matter how close the driver is.

speakers are speakers as I say. Theres some good ones mediocre ones and some crappy ones.

I'd by bose speakers if I had a couple of hundred dollars (my pockets are EMPTY

I saw a set onf bose bookshelf speakers for 30 dollars once but I only had 17 dollars and
my mom said I had TOO MANY Speakers (you can never have too many speakers)!!!!!!

I like COBY, by the way I have never had any real problem with them unless I broke it.
I like durabrand also never had a real problem exept when it was my fault or when I purchased an opened or refurbed product. I got my clock radio wet and it died! FOREVER!!!

I find too much low bass to be uncomfortable (subsonic OOOOOOOMMMMMMM/tactile feeling when it is fully intense.)
my fault.

There are so much Bose thrashing here. The Bose speakers do sound decent and it is not that bad. The only thing is Bose speakers offer little value for your money.

I don't own any Lifestyle sytem and will never buy one due to the price. However, if a Lifestyle 48 system was to cost around $800, I will buy it in a heart beat.
That's why the bashing to much $$ even @ $800 you can find better stuff. 5 speakers 0ne sub and receiver that plays dvd.... maybe not for $800 but Bose sells that for $4k :eek:

Just the other day, I was talking to a friend about speakers. He asked me about Bose and I felt like referring him to this thread. :D I told him that while Bose isn't horrible, it is for the price. One can do much better in terms of price, performance, and probably even WAF.

I do not hate any product.
BOSE or no bose I always try to find a way to improve the function by adjusting. I like GPX yorx and never had a real problem out of them expet when it was something I did

To me it really dosnt matter what speakers I own or what someone els owns becaus it is THEIR speakers.

Also ABSOLOUTLY NO dynamic speaker is capable of producing frequency's perfectly.
Bose is not really bad its just not great. Anyways a thousand dollars for ANY speaker to me is a bit steep considering

A). It just sits there.
B)its a box with a few drivers in it.
C). not all 1000 dollar speakers By ANY manufacturer is ever going to make perfect sound.
its againsf physics. soundawves drop-off fby the time they get to your ears no matter how close the driver is.

speakers are speakers as I say. Theres some good ones mediocre ones and some crappy ones.

I'd by bose speakers if I had a couple of hundred dollars (my pockets are EMPTY

I saw a set onf bose bookshelf speakers for 30 dollars once but I only had 17 dollars and
my mom said I had TOO MANY Speakers (you can never have too many speakers)!!!!!!

I like COBY, by the way I have never had any real problem with them unless I broke it.
I like durabrand also never had a real problem exept when it was my fault or when I purchased an opened or refurbed product. I got my clock radio wet and it died! FOREVER!!!

I find too much low bass to be uncomfortable (subsonic OOOOOOOMMMMMMM/tactile feeling when it is fully intense.)
my fault.


Here's a similar example to your argument.

A million dollars for any house is a waste of money

1) It just sits there.
2) It's a closed area with a bunch of rooms in it
3) Not all houses worth a million are ever going to be perfect. They are all prone to weather and nuclear bombs.

Houses are houses I say. A shack made of cardboard is just as good as a multi-million mansion. I too would pay a few hundred thousand for a cardboard shack, but my mom says I have enough boxes lying around as is.



And FYI, many speakers are easily worth over a grand. If you think that's steep, then that's a really misinformed opinion. People pay thousands for LCD TVs because they are much clearer than a cheap RCA CRT, which can be had for a few hundred. Similarly, people prefer to buy clothes that fit them well, cars that are economical etc. If you want to $120, 000 for a Chevy, then you go ahead and waste your money. But smarter people opt to spend their money where it is worthwhile. So enjoy stocking up your large collection of weightless speakers. I'll be happy with just a pair of Strata Minis.


So really no. Bose isn't "okay". It is total trash. Not only is it overpriced, it is also built with terribly cheap components, and faulty marketing. If you want small speakers, there are much better choices like Cambridge. But in the end, small speakers just don't cut it.

I didn't bother to read the whole thread, so I'm not sure if this has been posted already. If not it's a good read.

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html

I didn't bother to read the whole thread, so I'm not sure if this has been posted already. If not it's a good read.

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html
Yes, it's been posted before, but still a good read for overzealous and ignorant Bose fans. :)

Yes, it's been posted before, but still a good read for overzealous and ignorant Bose fans. :)

Any one with a brain can see this article is full of crap right from the begining. He claims Bose uses a $35 Sony driver in the cubes. Does anyone really think Bose is using Sony drivers? There are also a lot of other inconsistencies, too many to name. This guy seems to be the only person on earth who has a boom box that hits 40 hz with impact.
BTW, this thread should probably be pinned it comes back so often.

i am a best buy employee.

i have a full def tech setup in my game room.

i also run a bose 3.2.1 in my living room. why?

easy to set up

easy to use (for my parents who live with me)

the room is oddly shaped and a 5.1 setup is not possible.

we don't watch that many movies or entertain.

in my opinion bose is not a bad product. my mom who would never know how to turn on a receiver let alone set it to the right source likes the bose. am, fm and it plays cds. i would also take this system over any set of mirage speakers i have heard.

every market has its status good that usually is over priced and draws the ire of enthusiasts because,

1) they cannot afford it. in the speaker community this doesn't apply since most of us will spend considerably more to have a non bose setup.

2) Noobs like it. We want to set ourselves apart from the newbies and to feel like true afficionados we have to find and pump up other brands so when the noob buys said product we can then say, "eh i have so and so product. great story behind these guys. so and so product is too...."

But there are systems that offer the same ease of use at:

1: Either the same price, but better quality

2: At a lower cost, but same quality

I dont hate bose but They dont sound full bodied. which of course I wouldnt expect even for the high price Small speakers+small sound no mattert what the price so I Don't complain
Seems that audiophies are Immature.

I dont see wheather a speaker sounds full bodied even for the xpensive price is any big deal.

Small speakers are NEVER going to sound big and full. even bandpass sub with these thinga arnt going to do any good. I just would cut the cble and do the splice to better speakers thing!

ANd kep the sub. I would only want the sub anyway

Oh my lord, when I hear that I can't help but laugh.......I hear Chef Boy-Ar-Dee makes great pasta. Budweiser is shameful representation of what real beer is. They are the only company I know that can take the four natural beer ingredients added with rice and tannins(A/B's claim), and screw it up. Congrats on the marketing success though, to an uneducated public. Let em drink it, more good stuff for the people who know!


And neither does your drinkers cause they could care less...........

I'm gonna go enjoy a Czechvar, you know, the REAL Budweiser, before A/B's lawyers stole the name?

Sorry this thread is goin off.......I can't help myself either

I also work at Anheuser-Busch, the distributor in San Diego, CA. It's funny you mention Czechvar because we just acquired the distrubiting rights for that beer. I guess Anheuser-Busch did see something in that beer. ;)

Who buys Bose? the same people that buy monster cable and "Dom" champagne.

Amar Bose was a dorm mate of mine, back when the earth was still cooling. This was before the world of quantum physics and things like that.

Bose was a physist, back then,a physist could major in acoustics. MIT had a large acoustical physics department. Bose was really fascinated with the acoustal room at MIT. a huge building with thick walls,and a large concrete slab floated on mercury taking up almost the entire floor space. would guess slab to be 80' x 80' x 6 or 10' deep. mercury space was about 1".

one wall had two sets of speakers. each a matrix of 10 x 10 or 15 x 15 12" electromagnetic speakers(this was before cheap permanent magnets). the sound was most extraodinary.

Bose began experimenting with matrix of speakers, all facing in the same direction. first big, then small ones. saw a 10 x 10 matrix pair of 5" speakers. and a 5x5 of 5". the sounds were excellent compared to anything else. at that time AR1,2,3. then klm or klh or some such. no one could afford a Klipsch horn. there were big altec lancings and don't remember what else other than a few british like warfdale. These things also produced very good bass at a time when good base was hard to come by.

Bose could not sell these matrices, or a 3x3 or a 4x4. then, I don't know where the 1 in front and a bunch in back(9?) came from, but it sold. It was an early on design, and at that time, did not have much competition. Bose built what would sell.

I listened to his speil a few times. the most enjoyable part was the effect and problems with room acoustics. he would play a piece of music into the room, and record it. play what was recorded. repeat the process about 4 or 5 times. all you could hear after that were the resonant frequencies of the room. put it on an oscilloscope, and come up with the room dimensions. He never put the first recording on a scope, but if he had, one would see the spikes from the room on even the first playing. Moral: don't use a symetric room.

I didn't bother to read the whole thread, so I'm not sure if this has been posted already. If not it's a good read.

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html
Good read, though my local frys no longer has bose in their theater room, i believe they have RTi4's for sides FXi's or LSiFx for rears and RTi towers in the front.

not to bump up this thread any further but my mom was looking into buying the bose cd clock radio for her room because she feels it has a good sound but, i also know that she is going to be paying a lot for a overpriced item.

So, what recommendations do you people suggest that i can research alittle more on my own and save my mom a few bucks. I too feel that bose is very exspensive after hearing different brands that made me feel all warm and giddy inside rather than slitting my ears with screeching high picked frequencies

I have heard that the Cambridge Soundworks version is a better buy, but I have no idea if that is true as I have not heard either of them. But it may be worth checking out.

Any one with a brain can see this article is full of crap right from the begining. He claims Bose uses a $35 Sony driver in the cubes. Does anyone really think Bose is using Sony drivers? There are also a lot of other inconsistencies, too many to name. This guy seems to be the only person on earth who has a boom box that hits 40 hz with impact.
BTW, this thread should probably be pinned it comes back so often.
OK, so if his article is full of lies and inconsistencies, where are Bose drivers from? Can you factually refute his $35 Sony driver claim? He might be lying about that, I don't know, but I'd like to see proof from the other side of the argument as well. :)

For the record, I don't hate Bose. I merely dislike their price/performance factor. ;)

Awhile back I bought the Bose radio/cd player after hearing Paul Harvey and others rave about the sound. I had previously heard the bigger wave unit and thought it was pretty good but quite expensive. Well, I wasn't very impressed with the sound of the little wave radio. My Tivoli radio blows it away at 1/5th the cost. I think Bose wasn't bad in the 1970's but today they are driven on pure marketing hype. Expensive lo-fi junk. I will never buy into their propoganda again.

D

That's why the bashing to much $$ even @ $800 you can find better stuff. 5 speakers 0ne sub and receiver that plays dvd.... maybe not for $800 but Bose sells that for $4k :eek:

Funny Bose Sells at my City for less than $4K I Saw one for $499.99

OK, so if his article is full of lies and inconsistencies, where are Bose drivers from? Can you factually refute his $35 Sony driver claim? He might be lying about that, I don't know, but I'd like to see proof from the other side of the argument as well. :)

For the record, I don't hate Bose. I merely dislike their price/performance factor. ;)

I don't have to prove anything about it. It is all there in black and white. The driver he linked is described as a good replacement for Bose cubes, not the original parts and is described as the driver Sony uses, not Bose. I really don't know what Bose is using, but I would bet they sell enough of these things to get them made specifically for themselves as most big speaker companies do. The guy who wrote this IMO has zero objectivity. He is obviously trying to endear himself to the masses of internet forum junkies who consistently bash Bose. To go on record, I am not a bose lover nor hater. I think they fill a nitch in the market and it isn't to audiophiles, it is to the guy/gal who makes enough money to spend $1000 on speakers or $3000 to $4000 on a complete system.
Also to Ironmike who is comparing the Lifestyle system to an $800 HTIB. The lifestyle system you are comparing it to has a built in entertainment server. That's right, it copies all your DVD's and CD's and stores them so you never need to pull out the disk again. See if you can find that in your $800 system. BTW, even with the music server, it is ridiculously over priced.

I spoke to my father today (like I hope everyone else who has a father did!). He mentioned he wants to get a surround sound system for their bedroom. I talked him out of Bose when we designed their living room surround sound system. (We used a Kenwood receiver and Athena 6.1 speakers and they like it.) He said he wants to get a wireless surround sound system for their bedroom and mentioned the Bose 1-2-3 system. I told him I'd disown him as a father if he got that overpriced Bose crap. :D I'll be flying to my parents house soon and will try to come up with a small and relatively nonobtrusive surround sound system that matches their LCD HDTV. I said there are other systems that have wireless surround speakers and that wires in the front are no big deal.

Hmm interesting thread,

I admit I have not heard a bose surround system (nor do I care to just by looking at them)

They just arent what they were back in the day, and as most people have said, you can get as good of a system or better, for less money than Bose.

Now I'm not totally bashing the company, as I do have a Pair of 901's, but thats as far as that will ever go.

;)

I do not hate any product.
BOSE or no bose I always try to find a way to improve the function by adjusting. I like GPX yorx and never had a real problem out of them expet when it was something I did

To me it really dosnt matter what speakers I own or what someone els owns becaus it is THEIR speakers.

Also ABSOLOUTLY NO dynamic speaker is capable of producing frequency's perfectly.
Bose is not really bad its just not great. Anyways a thousand dollars for ANY speaker to me is a bit steep considering

A). It just sits there.
B)its a box with a few drivers in it.
C). not all 1000 dollar speakers By ANY manufacturer is ever going to make perfect sound.
its againsf physics. soundawves drop-off fby the time they get to your ears no matter how close the driver is.

speakers are speakers as I say. Theres some good ones mediocre ones and some crappy ones.

I'd by bose speakers if I had a couple of hundred dollars (my pockets are EMPTY

I saw a set onf bose bookshelf speakers for 30 dollars once but I only had 17 dollars and
my mom said I had TOO MANY Speakers (you can never have too many speakers)!!!!!!

I like COBY, by the way I have never had any real problem with them unless I broke it.
I like durabrand also never had a real problem exept when it was my fault or when I purchased an opened or refurbed product. I got my clock radio wet and it died! FOREVER!!!

I find too much low bass to be uncomfortable (subsonic OOOOOOOMMMMMMM/tactile feeling when it is fully intense.)
my fault.

So, you're saying you like total crap? You must do your electronics shopping at Wal-Mart. If you did make decent cash im sure you'd like something else;)

So, you're saying you like total crap? You must do your electronics shopping at Wal-Mart. If you did make decent cash im sure you'd like something else;)
Easy now.....we all have to start somewhere right? From reading raymonds's posts I'd say he is just starting out. Oh and back at ya ;)

OK, so if his article is full of lies and inconsistencies, where are Bose drivers from? Can you factually refute his $35 Sony driver claim? He might be lying about that, I don't know, but I'd like to see proof from the other side of the argument as well. :)

For the record, I don't hate Bose. I merely dislike their price/performance factor. ;)

I sometimes wonder why I bother with this forum (and I'm sure many of you feel the same about my posts).

As far as I know, the transducers in the Bose 'cubes' are not shared with other companies.

John Feng
Bose Corporation

I wouldn't say BOSE makes bad speakers. The issues are 1) they are not for everyone and 2) you just don't get what you pay for and you pay A LOT!.

About 13-14 years ago I got a pair of 301's (I was young and stupid). For me back then it was a lot of money. For the life of me I couldn't get them to sound anywhere near decent. I tried all sorts of placement options. I even went so far as to dump my Sansui receiver because I thought it was at fault. Needless to say that was a huge mistake.
Anyway after months of agony I realized BOSE was not for me and I moved on. I have since then heard many different versions of BOSE and its just not something I could live with. I think someone else here said that if they were priced lower, they would not have had such a bad rep and I completely agree. I cannot in good conscience recommend BOSE when I know there are other brand that offer a more refined sound for a lot less.

I wouldn't say BOSE makes bad speakers. The issues are 1) they are not for everyone and 2) you just don't get what you pay for and you pay A LOT!.

About 13-14 years ago I got a pair of 301's (I was young and stupid). For me back then it was a lot of money. For the life of me I couldn't get them to sound anywhere near decent. I tried all sorts of placement options. I even went so far as to dump my Sansui receiver because I thought it was at fault. Needless to say that was a huge mistake.
Anyway after months of agony I realized BOSE was not for me and I moved on. I have since then heard many different versions of BOSE and its just not something I could live with. I think someone else here said that if they were priced lower, they would not have had such a bad rep and I completely agree. I cannot in good conscience recommend BOSE when I know there are other brand that offer a more refined sound for a lot less.

The cited bose bashing url is full of falsehoods.

John Feng
(Bose Employee)

J_Feng, if you want to support Bose, your employer, that's fine. But Fihsak made no mention of that Web page that tears apart Bose, yet you felt compelled to bring it up again. :rolleyes:

Back to the in-car Bose system topic...
I previously owned an '02 Dodge Ram with an amazingly clean Infinity sound system(stock speakers). I am no audio expert, but I have always been an appreciator of nice audio representation. The in-car Infinity system impressed me from the start and I never felt the urge to change it out in the years I owned the truck. I sold the Dodge about 2 years ago and bought a new Infiniti with the Bose system. The sound quality was a major let down compared to the Dodge's Infinity speakers. I had no negative feelings toward Bose products at the time, I was under the impression they were popular so they must be good quality. It wasn't until I took my Infiniti to a car audio specialty shop to ask how I could get a cleaner sound, that I heard a little rhyme that characterizes my experience with them, "no highs, no lows?...must be Bose." I didn't change the speakers out since my office was only a five minute drive away from home and I didn't want my brand new car to be taken apart for new speakers. After 2 years, I still wonder what Infiniti was thinking, not going with a company that would brand so well with them...Infiniti car/Infinity speakers!!!

^ Yes, Infiniti with Infinity would've made for nice marketing and, more importantly (to the customers), a better audio system.

Damn it!!!! WHYYYYYYYY????? Now I gotta find another titty bar to go to :(

I cant beleive you guys go to titty bars to listen to the speakers! I'd be to busy watching the women!!! :D

If I bought bose it wouldnt be anything new anyways I'd probaly buy a pair of Bose 601 II floorstanders. back when BOSE made REAL speakers Lol some of my equipment which is not bose is older than me I do not own bose.

I dont choose speakers or any equipmet by name but rather by looks/sound. sound is the top priority that is. Heck I just picked up an Used but working Kenwood tapedeck for $3.00 yesterday. It definately appears to be newer.

I cant find a cheap receiver though But I Did see a Soundesign receiver with turntable/cassette/8track tfor 80 bucks. the thing was the height of a normal receiver and looked like any other one but it was as wide as a Kitchen stove. and had to be at least 30 LBS.

(snip) After 2 years, I still wonder what Infiniti was thinking, not going with a company that would brand so well with them...Infiniti car/Infinity speakers!!!

The new G35 represents the level of performance that Nissan and Bose negotiated when the system was designed nearly 3 years ago. I'm quite happy with it.

However, not every Nissan planner feels his or her Nissan vehicle needs that kind of performance. And don't forget, there are a lot of other considerations that complete with audio for priority (cost, weight, packaging, etc.). What you get out of a premium audio option ultimately has to satisfy the planners needs or we simply don't get the business. I can't comment on older systems (like the 1st generation G35 or current Maxima) because I wasn't here to negotiate the audio performance. For examples of contemporary Nissan/Bose cooperation: the M35/45 and new Altima systems were done under my watch. Both systems offer great performance within the limitations of their respective vehicle constraints, in my opinion.

As far as preference: I'll always go for accuracy over huge amounts of mind numbing bass. I'll always negotiate in favor of lifelike imaging and spatial presentation over a few more dB of absolute max SPL. And I will never approve an unnatural tonal balance that initially impresses the buyer, but ultimately proves inaccurate (e.g. the fabled audio salesman's smiley face EQ).
Unfortuantely (or not), not everyone likes accurate and lifelike. So, if you prefer another brand, tell your Infiniti/Nissan rep.

John Feng
Bose Corporation

I thought I had the best system untill I heard a friends Klipsch system. It litteraly blew me away.

Literally blew you away? That system is moving a lot of air! Wow!

The new G35 represents the level of performance that Nissan and Bose negotiated when the system was designed nearly 3 years ago. I'm quite happy with it.

However, not every Nissan planner feels his or her Nissan vehicle needs that kind of performance. And don't forget, there are a lot of other considerations that complete with audio for priority (cost, weight, packaging, etc.). What you get out of a premium audio option ultimately has to satisfy the planners needs or we simply don't get the business. I can't comment on older systems (like the 1st generation G35 or current Maxima) because I wasn't here to negotiate the audio performance. For examples of contemporary Nissan/Bose cooperation: the M35/45 and new Altima systems were done under my watch. Both systems offer great performance within the limitations of their respective vehicle constraints, in my opinion.

As far as preference: I'll always go for accuracy over huge amounts of mind numbing bass. I'll always negotiate in favor of lifelike imaging and spatial presentation over a few more dB of absolute max SPL. And I will never approve an unnatural tonal balance that initially impresses the buyer, but ultimately proves inaccurate (e.g. the fabled audio salesman's smiley face EQ).
Unfortuantely (or not), not everyone likes accurate and lifelike. So, if you prefer another brand, tell your Infiniti/Nissan rep.

John Feng
Bose Corporation
Unfortunately, Bose gives you neither accuracy nor mind numbing bass.

Unfortunately, Bose gives you neither accuracy nor mind numbing bass.
Lets see how many people have won a dbdrag (spl competition) running bose speakers lol how many people have won an iasca competition (sq ) lol just like the home systems, the car systems are way over priced. I remember the other day about a week ago working on a friends yukon denali and laughing at the box that was made out of what seem to be like 16-18 gauge plastic for the subwoofer box.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in the market to lease a new SUV and I looked at an Escalade with a Bose audio system and it sounded amazing. As good if not better than the Harmon Kardon system in my Mercedes.

So you are saying that McDonalds is good food? Budweiser is good beer?

...

HAHAHA best state eVaR :p

Dude, I didn't make anything up! :mad: OK, if this makes you feel better ... we got some kind of Bose HTIB 10 years ago for a "great" discount of $800 (which was a lot cheaper than its msrp) from our uncle. Anyways, the receiver, whose power supply was actually in the subwoofer for some weird reason, did have a CD player in it, even though that stopped working a year after we got it. It did have a display that stopped working a year after that. In addition, the system could not decode DTS and the speakers could not hook up to any other receiver if and when the receiver stopped working - that's how it was designed.

As for the gym speakers sounding bad ... you're partially correct. It ended up actually being some kind of connection problem ... they didn't have the right wiring, plugs or something. Still, it makes me kind of sad that our school could have bought better speakers for a better price for its purposes.

Sorry about not responding sooner. I must have missed this.
DTS was founded in 1990 and wasn't available in consumer equipment until 1996, so your Bose not being able to decode DTS at a time where it was a brand new HT technology is not surprising in the least since practically no audio gear produced at that time had this capability either.
You can read about it in this link
http://www.dtsonline.com/company/history/

As far as hooking up the speakers to another system, I hate to break this to you, but bose speakers work on the same principles as any other speaker. All you had to do was cut of the RCA connector or just run regular speaker wire. Don't tell me that they came hard wired because that would be insanely stupid and one thing the people at Bose are not is stupid. As far as how they would sound is another story.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am in the market to lease a new SUV and I looked at an Escalade with a Bose audio system and it sounded amazing. As good if not better than the Harmon Kardon system in my Mercedes.

Not surprised,Feng has stated many times the goals from the Auto divsion at Bose is different from the Home side. The new Infiniti G35 is a good example as is the current Acura RL. The highs could be more refined yes, the bass could go lower,yes. But Feng and crew have gotten the important midrange right on certain cars.

Not surprised,Feng has stated many times the goals from the Auto divsion at Bose is different from the Home side. The new Infiniti G35 is a good example as is the current Acura RL. The highs could be more refined yes, the bass could go lower,yes. But Feng and crew have gotten the important midrange right on certain cars.
Hence the saying, "No highs? No lows? Must be Bose." But no one makes fun of their midrange. :D

Hence the saying, "No highs? No lows? Must be Bose." But no one makes fun of their midrange. :D

thats funny :rolleyes: ........ :p

I am glad this is here to vent my frustrations...I can hardly keep track of how many times I have people ask me if I got the "Bose system" when they find out how into home theater I am. Then when I reply that I got better than a bose system they look at me like I just shot their kid. And I can tell that they are thinking I am some kind of straight up moron because I think Bose is crap...because OBVIOUSLY Bose is the best there is...the commercial tells me so....

To respond to all those a couple pages back who were trying to say which car manufacturer helped the U.S. economy the most. The answer is any car you buy will help, even if it is Japanese.

If you buy an american car, the money goes directly to an american corporation.

If you buy a japanese car, the money goes to japan. But the dollars that you spent are still dollars, not yen. So the japanese convert the money. The dollars however, are still around somwhere. They are not destroyed, and one of the only places that one can spend american dollars is in america. So the money will eventually come back to pay for an american item, so eventaully, your money comes back to help the american economy.

And bose sucks, just to keep this thread on topic.

Guys,

I figured I'd add my 2 cents....

I have 2 home setups with all Bose speakers, and I love it. The only thing that I can say that is "weak" in my set up is the VCS-10 center speaker on both.

On my main system, I run 901 VI as my fronts. (Pioneer Elite 84 receiver)
On my "other" system I run 601's as my front. (Pioneer Elite 74 receiver)

The sound that I get with music, and movies do me and my family just fine, with no complains! Isn't that what this hobby is all about????? :)

Ben

Guys,

I figured I'd add my 2 cents....

I have 2 home setups with all Bose speakers, and I love it. The only thing that I can say that is "weak" in my set up is the VCS-10 center speaker on both.

On my main system, I run 901 VI as my fronts. (Pioneer Elite 84 receiver)
On my "other" system I run 601's as my front. (Pioneer Elite 74 receiver)

The sound that I get with music, and movies do me and my family just fine, with no complains! Isn't that what this hobby is all about????? :)

Ben




You plant that Flag firmly there Ben, you got guts.... :)


Djoel

You plant that Flag firmly there Ben, you got guts.... :)


Djoel

Djoel,

Thanks for the "back-up"! :)

I enjoy my systems, my kids have ton's of fun playing their PS3/PS2 watching Blu-Ray movies, my wife enjoys her "programs and movies" so as a Dad and Husband, I think I'm ok over here in Ben's world! :p

As for the Bose "bashers" I always enjoy reading why they hate Bose speakers. Like I said, I run 901's, 601's, 301's, 201's and the crappy VCS-10 center speakers for 2 dedicated home set ups.

I've paired the speakers up with the Pioneer Elite 84 and 74 receiver, both have Velodyne 4000 subs, with the "main" system using the PS3 as the media center and the "wife system" using a Denon 2930 DVD player, (which I like better)

I have nice tv's (JVC I-DLA 61 1080p with the main system) and a JVC-IDLA 61(1080i) with the "wife" setup. :D

I enjoy this hobby, and so does my family. If and when I do hear better sounding speakers, I'll decide then about making a switch, but so far, I haven't! :)

Ben

Ben, do you consider everyone who hates Bose speakers or thinks they are really overpriced underperforming products bashers. I am just curious why you seem to think anyone who hates their products (which I do) is just a basher. You seem to be labeling.

That would be like me saying all Bose fans are trolls.

Also, you indicate you have not heard better sounding speakers. Ok, what have you heard so far that has not measured up to your Bose stuff?

Why do I keep reading from the Bose bashers about accuracy.Do Mirage,Definitive
Technology,Kef which come to mind,are they not accurate.Who says speakers
must be accurate to sound good.I read these forums on Bose speakers and laugh at these Bose bashers who say their speakers are crap and overpriced.How do you know they sound like crap?Do you own them,are you sitting in a C.City or Best Buy all day and listening to them.I know this is a hobby for most but you
folks get carried away.What are you spending your money on ,how much and for
what speakers are you buying?Most name brands in the electronic world have overpriced items,Meridian,Krell,Theta Digital,I could go on.If you want to bash manufacters,how about the overhyped speaker and video cables that are made.
Yes,I know,a videophile and someone with speakers costing a 100,000 along with
that super duper amp for 200,000 can hear the difference or see the difference.

Ben, do you consider everyone who hates Bose speakers or thinks they are really overpriced underperforming products bashers. I am just curious why you seem to think anyone who hates their products (which I do) is just a basher. You seem to be labeling.

That would be like me saying all Bose fans are trolls.

Also, you indicate you have not heard better sounding speakers. Ok, what have you heard so far that has not measured up to your Bose stuff?

Bruins29,

Don't take this the wrong way, but if you went to UCLA, then I hate you too! :) My reason, I'm a Anteater (UC Irvine) and hate UCLA! Totally kidding here!!!!! :)

What I intended to convey is this...

...Most of the reviews, opinions, threads that I have read, MORE OFTEN THAN NOT "bash" Bose speakers! I was simply replying that I am a Bose enthusiast, enjoy my speakers, and have listen to other products and happen to like mine better. Sure it's my OPINION, that's why I own them.

As for what I have listened to over the years, geez, that could take up an entire thread, plus, I'm being rather lazy and really don't feel like typing all that info out! :)

Have a safe holiday...

Ben

Hi Ben - congrats on supporting your product. One thing that always stuck me here, is everyone has their own favourites and will say the just the most hyprocritcal things to support their decision in investing in a certain product.

As much as people around here bash Bose, as I'm sure you've read, they do just the opposite with ID companies of all kinds. You know that more than half of them are shills, and they're easy to spot - but over time it gets a little redundant. In fact, it gets to the point where you're almost afraid to post on here as no matter WHAT you buy, you can bet on the following three things:

1. Someone out there got a better deal than you

2. Someone out there has something 'better' than yours

3. If you bought at a B&M, you'll get 100's of responses of why you should have bought from an ID company, and if you buy from an ID company, you'll get 100's of responses about buying from the wrong ID company.

So, if you like Bose, and you're happy - and your family is happy, then that is all that counts. No matter what I think, or anyone else here thinks, is irrelevant, as we listen to our own systems.

I have my opinion on Bose, but as I just said, my opinion means nothing. I can say this - after hearing a certain speaker from an ID company - I'd take your 901' over those any day of the week! Yet, the 'shills' around here will tell you they're the best speaker out there (nb: the speaker was replace about two years ago now, most 'people' who owned the speaker were flooding into the web site trading them up for the next model in the line - can't say I blame them, but there's the hypocrisy - they'll tell you they're the best speakers they ever heard, yet they'll take the time to box them up, ship them back, just to get the 'latest' model out there.... things that make you go hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. Personally, I get quite a laugh out of it).

Well Said

Djoel,

Thanks for the "back-up"! :)

I enjoy my systems, my kids have ton's of fun playing their PS3/PS2 watching Blu-Ray movies, my wife enjoys her "programs and movies" so as a Dad and Husband, I think I'm ok over here in Ben's world! :p

As for the Bose "bashers" I always enjoy reading why they hate Bose speakers. Like I said, I run 901's, 601's, 301's, 201's and the crappy VCS-10 center speakers for 2 dedicated home set ups.

I've paired the speakers up with the Pioneer Elite 84 and 74 receiver, both have Velodyne 4000 subs, with the "main" system using the PS3 as the media center and the "wife system" using a Denon 2930 DVD player, (which I like better)

I have nice tv's (JVC I-DLA 61 1080p with the main system) and a JVC-IDLA 61(1080i) with the "wife" setup. :D

I enjoy this hobby, and so does my family. If and when I do hear better sounding speakers, I'll decide then about making a switch, but so far, I haven't! :)

Ben





It sound like you, and your family are enjoying those Bose, and at the end that's what counts...

Most Audio enthusiast are obsessive creature, myself included.(Tweaking,moving,toeing,changing amps,etc..) We are never happy with what they own. I've never own a pair of Bose speaker,don't know exactly why? Maybe I've been put off by those tiny cubes at 90% of my friends own.

No matter what you hear on this site you have yourself a good time...

DJoel

The bottom line with bose is this, they are overpriced. For much less money you can have WAY better sound, or sound at least equal to Bose. The only caveat is if you need VERY small speakers, and even then there are cheaper options with superior sound quality. So I never understand why someone would defend such an overpriced and ridiculously bad sounding product. Only a person who has never in their life heard what real speakers sound like would choose Bose. It's a novelty at best, but I cannot believe anyone in their right mind would prefer the gimmicky bose sound to a full and rich detailed and accurate vibrant and seductive home theater. It's the lack of side by side comparison that kills me with bose buyers. If you heard bose vs. any reputable manufacturer in 5.1 with movies or music you would probably cry for ever wanting to have bose.
Unless you want tiny cubes, and if you need tiny cubes and call yourself a music lover/audiophile then you are a disgrace. Bose is ****, period. There is NOTHING good about them. Unless you already have 3 other audio systems (minimum) and way too much money to burn and want bose as a novelty then by all means. If not, you are missing out, and I do NOT feel sorry for you for being naive and retarded.

Why not Bose? Because the smell-reproduction of wood is not up to audiophile standards. LDF does not meet the neccessary smell levels needed to fill an audiophiles nose.

No smell, no hoes. Must be Bose.

Why do I keep reading from the Bose bashers about accuracy.Do Mirage,Definitive
Technology,Kef which come to mind,are they not accurate.Who says speakers
must be accurate to sound good.I read these forums on Bose speakers and laugh at these Bose bashers who say their speakers are crap and overpriced.How do you know they sound like crap?Do you own them,are you sitting in a C.City or Best Buy all day and listening to them.I know this is a hobby for most but you
folks get carried away.What are you spending your money on ,how much and for
what speakers are you buying?Most name brands in the electronic world have overpriced items,Meridian,Krell,Theta Digital,I could go on.If you want to bash manufacters,how about the overhyped speaker and video cables that are made.
Yes,I know,a videophile and someone with speakers costing a 100,000 along with
that super duper amp for 200,000 can hear the difference or see the difference.

Vinny, every 6 months you seem to post the same thing which completely goes against everything AVS stands for. I really wonder why you even post here.

As for what I have listened to over the years, geez, that could take up an entire thread, plus, I'm being rather lazy and really don't feel like typing all that info out! :)

Have a safe holiday...

Ben

Just give me a couple expamples.

Why not Bose? Because the smell-reproduction of wood is not up to audiophile standards. LDF does not meet the neccessary smell levels needed to fill an audiophiles nose.

No smell, no hoes. Must be Bose.







Your one funny kidd, wish I had an AVS at 15 years old. So are you going to be 15 the whole 06& 07?

Keep on spinning that wax..


DJoel

The bottom line with bose is this, they are overpriced. For much less money you can have WAY better sound, or sound at least equal to Bose. The only caveat is if you need VERY small speakers, and even then there are cheaper options with superior sound quality. So I never understand why someone would defend such an overpriced and ridiculously bad sounding product. Only a person who has never in their life heard what real speakers sound like would choose Bose. It's a novelty at best, but I cannot believe anyone in their right mind would prefer the gimmicky bose sound to a full and rich detailed and accurate vibrant and seductive home theater. It's the lack of side by side comparison that kills me with bose buyers. If you heard bose vs. any reputable manufacturer in 5.1 with movies or music you would probably cry for ever wanting to have bose.
Unless you want tiny cubes, and if you need tiny cubes and call yourself a music lover/audiophile then you are a disgrace. Bose is ****, period. There is NOTHING good about them. Unless you already have 3 other audio systems (minimum) and way too much money to burn and want bose as a novelty then by all means. If not, you are missing out, and I do NOT feel sorry for you for being naive and retarded.

I have posted this before, but when I read a post such as this which IMO is laced with inaccuracies, I have to chime in.
I am a former Acostimass 10 owner. I bought the AM-10 a long time ago, like 5 years. I then started to read this site and saw all the Bose Bashers on the site which made me curious as to if there was something to all this. Yes I spent my time here defending the Bose set up I had and to much ridicule I might add. So I decided to go out and see if other sat setups from companies like Klipsch, Athena, HSU, Paradgim, BA, and Polk sounded better than what i was already using. I actually couldn't do any side by side test for the most part except in Magnolia where they had Bose speakers in their sound room. That is actually where I compared them to BA micros which I did think sounded better on the high end, but it wasn't like "Oh my Lord" better and the BA Micro set up was more expensive than the Bose I already had. Also the Micro sub sounded much worse at high volume than the Bose Bass Module. If I added the Velo sub the guy turned on to show what they sounded like with a big sub, it would have cost more than double. I think the rest of the brands I named when it came to small speakers were about the same sound wise as the bose cubes. In the audio botique store where I decided to end my quest to find better sounding sat speakers, the owner asked me what I thought, and I told him "I'm sticking with what I have. Nothing you demonstated sounds so much better than what I already have that I am going to plunk down over $1000 for it (all the setups were over $1000) and I told him I actually thought the Paradgim sats sounded worse than the Bose sats. He then said "listen to this" and played Def Tech Pro Cinema 100's. They are 5.25" woofers with a 3/4' tweeter. This is where I heard a big difference and I eventually bought them. So my conclusion is, if you want small speakers, there really is no problem if you go with Bose. In most cases they cost margianly more than these other brands I listed, if not cheaper in about 75% of the cases I looked at. For small drivers, they do a good enough job compared to the others. They definetly lose out to larger speakers, but I would say the same for all these other sats also. There just is no magic bullet. Small speakers sound small no matter who makes them.

To respond to all those a couple pages back who were trying to say which car manufacturer helped the U.S. economy the most. The answer is any car you buy will help, even if it is Japanese.

If you buy an american car, the money goes directly to an american corporation.

If you buy a japanese car, the money goes to japan. But the dollars that you spent are still dollars, not yen. So the japanese convert the money. The dollars however, are still around somwhere. They are not destroyed, and one of the only places that one can spend american dollars is in america. So the money will eventually come back to pay for an american item, so eventaully, your money comes back to help the american economy.

And bose sucks, just to keep this thread on topic.


wow I never really thought about it that way..... thats awesome :)

Interesting because for the most part I agree on the Bose quality and price. However, I have a room where true 5.1 simply isn't an option. As it is a casual music/tv room I don't need to worry about what I put there; I have my home theater in another room, and my music listening room as well. I would just like some modicum of "surround" sound and the Bose 321 seems to be the only option. I'd love to hear of others, but I haven't seen any. Granted I have not demo'd the 321 and it may in fact suck more than it surrounds but to start I just don't see any other options.

Interesting because for the most part I agree on the Bose quality and price. However, I have a room where true 5.1 simply isn't an option. As it is a casual music/tv room I don't need to worry about what I put there; I have my home theater in another room, and my music listening room as well. I would just like some modicum of "surround" sound and the Bose 321 seems to be the only option. I'd love to hear of others, but I haven't seen any. Granted I have not demo'd the 321 and it may in fact suck more than it surrounds but to start I just don't see any other options.

You may want to look at the Yamaha Sound bar. It gives a surround effect in the same way Bose dose by reflecting sound.

You may want to look at the Yamaha Sound bar. It gives a surround effect in the same way Bose dose by reflecting sound.

Similar the Polk Surround Bar.

Because it is the American way. Somebody rises, somebody on the top, knock them down if you can.

"American beer tastes like shandy. Try a proper drink- Murphy's, Guiness, paint stripper etc ;-)"

I get 5% alcohol in my Bud. How much do you get in Guiness across the pond? 4%? What's a proper drink again? :D

To respond to all those a couple pages back who were trying to say which car manufacturer helped the U.S. economy the most. The answer is any car you buy will help, even if it is Japanese.

"If you buy an american car, the money goes directly to an american corporation.

If you buy a japanese car, the money goes to japan. But the dollars that you spent are still dollars, not yen. So the japanese convert the money. The dollars however, are still around somwhere. They are not destroyed, and one of the only places that one can spend american dollars is in america. So the money will eventually come back to pay for an american item, so eventaully, your money comes back to help the american economy.

And bose sucks, just to keep this thread on topic."

The economic multiplier is much lower for cars that are designed and manufactured elsewhere. Buying a car that was built here, designed here from resources dug up here will benefit the national economy more than if it was done in a foreign country.

That said, there isn't much honor in buying American. The companies grew by buying up passenger railway line and tearing it from the ground. The vehicles they produce pollute like crazy, they push back against CAFE fuel efficiency standards and up until the Japanese started handing them their ass in sales the cars were of terrible quality. It was so bad that people would advice not to buy a car made on a Friday because the workers were ready for their week to end and were doing a bad job. The US auto companies and workers were more than willing to take advantage of the country. I didn't see unions protesting about poor quality and the repairs costs people went through back in the day.

Oh yeah, and Bose sucks. :D

I have heard this system. It is a total joke for $ 1499. That is why people bash Bose.


http://www.bose.com/controllerevent=VIEW_PRODUCT_PAGE_EVENT&product=321gsx_dvd_index

Because it is the American way. Somebody rises, somebody on the top, knock them down if you can.

Yep thats the reason. It has nothing to do with anything else. We are all just jeallous. :rolleyes:

Your one funny kidd, wish I had an AVS at 15 years old. So are you going to be 15 the whole 06& 07?

Keep on spinning that wax..


DJoel

16 in October. :)
I'm gonna buy myself a new car after a certain project I'm having done at Elemental Designs. :D
8 19Ov.2s in 4.5 cu ft sealed enclosures, with a LT/1300 for every pair of drivers.
I'll probably get their 13"s for my car.
If you're wondering what I'm getting, Chrysler 300c. I like those. :)

16 in October. :)
I'm gonna buy myself a new car after a certain project I'm having done at Elemental Designs. :D
8 19Ov.2s in 4.5 cu ft sealed enclosures, with a LT/1300 for every pair of drivers.
I'll probably get their 13"s for my car.
If you're wondering what I'm getting, Chrysler 300c. I like those. :)



Look at you all grown, well I have a 16 year old son that will be 17 in August..and the closest he has come to driving a car, and putting teens on his ride is on 360 Xbox... :( But what are you going to do, when the live a few hundred mile away!

Good luck with that.. :) and no drinking and driving! :cool: <----The law


DJoel

"Why Not Euthanasia?"

i have some bose stuff

i'm using am-10's as my computer speakers

Bruins29-Why do I post here,to annoy people like you.Really,The man asks a question and all he gets is Bose is crap.How do you know their crap.Just answer the question,why all the crap answers.What sounds good to him might not to you.Maybe your set up might be crap to some people on this forum.What do you have that is so great for price/performance.

I may hate bose' from an audio perspective, but marketing they have done a great job!!.. now on other note... god i hate SONY SPEAKERS!!!!!!!!!! They do TV's Great... but got lick ass on everything else..

Look at you all grown, well I have a 16 year old son that will be 17 in August..and the closest he has come to driving a car, and putting teens on his ride is on 360 Xbox... :( But what are you going to do, when the live a few hundred mile away!

Good luck with that.. :) and no drinking and driving! :cool: <----The law


DJoel

Thanks :)

Alcohol = bad. Not my thing. :D

Hell, I really don't even like driving fast. I just like to cruise, haha.

Oh yeah, and Bose sucks. :D

To you, but not to too many people worldwide.

To you, but not to too many people worldwide.

Bose owner? :rolleyes:

haha. I used to love Bose about 6-7 years ago. Then I heard some M&Ks, KEFs, and Polks. Funny thing is, I'm pretty sure they still sell the exact same model I heard then.

I've honestly tried to like Bose...but I simply can't get passed the fact that they sound like ass. Whether it's their bookshelves or their horrid cubes...they simply don't sound good. The only Bose speaker I thought sounded okay were their outdoor ones...probably because those have Kevlar cones opposed to the cardboard used elsewhere.

I was talking to a friend's friend on Sat. night who told me he wanted to get Bose surround sound speakers. I told him there are better options for the money. (I mentioned my speakers and where I got them from.) He then said something to the effect of: "Well, I admit that Bose speakers might not have the best tech specs or quality, but the way they're designed, they work well together and sound better than other speakers as a system."

Rather than get into an argument (after all, we were all out having a few drinks at a local bar on a Sat. night), I made a brief rebuttal and then moved on. I just told him "Good luck with whatever speakers you eventually decide to get". Some people insist on Bose, so I figure it's their money and let them get what they want. If they ask for my opinion, you can be sure I'll give one! :cool:

I have two sets. One for a computer, that was given to me as a gift, and two of the outdoor models I use to toss around wherever I need sound.

They really aren't bad sounding when turned up. They have plenty of middle to fill a room with music (even the little 2.1 computer set up).

So yes, there are better full range seakers out there, but many people are going to be happy with the little cubes mounted on a wall with their HT. And we don't need to correct them.

For many consumers, ignorance is bliss. They'll be content and, unlike most of us, won't be chasing the (unattainable) perfect home AV experience.

I have two sets. One for a computer, that was given to me as a gift, and two of the outdoor models I use to toss around wherever I need sound.

They really aren't bad sounding when turned up. They have plenty of middle to fill a room with music (even the little 2.1 computer set up).

So yes, there are better full range seakers out there, but many people are going to be happy with the little cubes mounted on a wall with their HT. And we don't need to correct them.

For many consumers, ignorance is bliss. They'll be content and, unlike most of us, won't be chasing the (unattainable) perfect home AV experience.


There still lies the problem of being majorly ripped off. There are other dinky cheap cube speakers that are equal performers to Bose for much cheaper. i.e. Cambridge Soundworks.

I own some Cambridge Soundworks too. In fact I use them with my 2nd HT. I've had them 15 years or more (model HT IV I think).

Damn, it now seems like I have a lot of speakers. Guess I do.

OTOH I think I paid $40 used for the outdoor models, and I understand your point, that they are marked up to feed a marketing team. But then so is gasoline. And beer.

Don't You Dare Compare Beer To Bose!! :d :d

I remember years ago when I wanted to purchase my first decent speaker system I went to Harvey Electronics in midtown Manhattan. At that time 2.1 satelite / subwoofer systems were the big thing and Harvey carried the Bose AM5, Polk and Boston Acoustics sub / sat systems. Bose was a big name then and the Bose system was very prominently displayed, more so than the others. They were also the most expensive of the three brands by at least $150 as I remember. I had the sales person play the Bose system for me and I remember how fantastic I thought it sounded! It was truly like magic, such deep base coming from those small cubes! (shows you how naïve I was then). The sales guy then said, “let me play the Bose system for you again and then I’ll switch to the Polk and Boston systems and tell me what you think”. Well it was like a revelation, when he switched from the Bose to the Boston & Polk speakers the Bose system all of a sudden sounded thin and lifeless, like there was a whole section of sound missing. He explained that the Polk had both midrange and treble drivers and that the Bose had one driver to cover the whole range. The Polk sounded the best of the three and they were in this cool looking grey speckled corian like material. But the cool looking revolving cubes and the “direct/ reflecting” marketing dragged me in so I bought the Bose speakers. After I got home and set them up I couldn’t help remembering how much better the Polk speakers sounded so I packed them up and returned them for the Polks. The salesman was cool and couldn’t understand why I bought the Bose after listening to the difference. The whole experience taught me to use my ears and not marketing hype.

I remember years ago when I wanted to purchase my first decent speaker system I went to Harvey Electronics in midtown Manhattan. At that time 2.1 satelite / subwoofer systems were the big thing and Harvey carried the Bose AM5, Polk and Boston Acoustics sub / sat systems. Bose was a big name then and the Bose system was very prominently displayed, more so than the others. They were also the most expensive of the three brands by at least $150 as I remember. I had the sales person play the Bose system for me and I remember how fantastic I thought it sounded! It was truly like magic, such deep base coming from those small cubes! (shows you how naïve I was then). The sales guy then said, “let me play the Bose system for you again and then I’ll switch to the Polk and Boston systems and tell me what you think”. Well it was like a revelation, when he switched from the Bose to the Boston & Polk speakers the Bose system all of a sudden sounded thin and lifeless, like there was a whole section of sound missing. He explained that the Polk had both midrange and treble drivers and that the Bose had one driver to cover the whole range. The Polk sounded the best of the three and they were in this cool looking grey speckled corian like material. But the cool looking revolving cubes and the “direct/ reflecting” marketing dragged me in so I bought the Bose speakers. After I got home and set them up I couldn’t help remembering how much better the Polk speakers sounded so I packed them up and returned them for the Polks. The salesman was cool and couldn’t understand why I bought the Bose after listening to the difference. The whole experience taught me to use my ears and not marketing hype.
Good real life story.

I have a zone 2 system in the dining room, and it has Bose 201s in it. It plays dinner music. Now my wife has told me she hates the way they look. So you see why Bose could sell all those tiny satellite speakers, the wife can't see them, and it doesn't matter what they sound like.

I think I'll take the 201's apart and put them inside the dining room wall.

A guy on another AV123 posted the following commentary picture. :D

Bose commentary picture (http://www.av123forum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=12867&stc=1&d=1185705082)

I dont understand the whole "wife doesnt like how good speakers look" thing...Most good floor standers/bookshelves are big sure,but they also usually look pretty awesome to me..especially some of the higher end with rosewood finishes and stuf..how could anyone prefer the laughable look of tiny plastic boses to that is beyond me

I dont understand the whole "wife doesnt like how good speakers look" thing...Most good floor standers/bookshelves are big sure,but they also usually look pretty awesome to me..especially some of the higher end with rosewood finishes and stuf..how could anyone prefer the laughable look of tiny plastic boses to that is beyond me

Read post 971 again. Hell, my wife thinks a BMW is pretty but she doesn't want one in the living room. This is why I went with in-ceilings for the L.R. for background music and my Def Techs in the theater.

if I ever had a wife,she would never ever cripple my main sound setup..if she wouldnt agree on real towers etc,I would tell her Im just gonna cash out on some senn orpheus for my own personal pleasure before I let any bose nonsense inside the house

What is amazing is that there is 33 pages of discussion on Bose in this thread. Do people really need to discuss how crappy Bose is? It's very easy to understand. I really cant think of a speaker that sounds worse than a Bose for the same money. There is no argument about it, it's a fact, they are not good speakers by any stretch of the imagination, nor are they a good deal at any price.

What is amazing is that there is 33 pages of discussion on Bose in this thread. Do people really need to discuss how crappy Bose is? It's very easy to understand. I really cant think of a speaker that sounds worse than a Bose for the same money. There is no argument about it, it's a fact, they are not good speakers by any stretch of the imagination, nor are they a good deal at any price.

BOSE speakers are good but not great. :(

If I saw a pair of used bose speakers going for cheap I'd buy as long as they aint' those ol' Acoustimass whachamajiggers. everyone is yapping about

I want them old 601's with them dual Woofers! theye's nothing like 4 woofers pumping out Loud rap Music to the neighborhood.

Bose does it old school! with foam surrounds Probably the last company of It's type making them Badasssssssssssss! old school speakers! (I just had to add all those S'es!) :D

I hear plenty of "bose is good, not great" or "they sound great to my ears" but is there actually a speaker out there that makes bose sound good?

Tiny PC-Speakers aside, what sounds worse than bose?

I hear plenty of "bose is good, not great" or "they sound great to my ears" but is there actually a speaker out there that makes bose sound good?

Tiny PC-Speakers aside, what sounds worse than bose?
In the same price range, I don't know. But the large speakers that come with those $700 all-in-one stereo systems make Bose's sound fantastic.

BOSE speakers are good but not great. :(

If I saw a pair of used bose speakers going for cheap I'd buy as long as they aint' those ol' Acoustimass whachamajiggers. everyone is yapping about

I want them old 601's with them dual Woofers! theye's nothing like 4 woofers pumping out Loud rap Music to the neighborhood.

Bose does it old school! with foam surrounds Probably the last company of It's type making them Badasssssssssssss! old school speakers! (I just had to add all those S'es!) :D


I will take that as a joke.

I hear plenty of "bose is good, not great" or "they sound great to my ears" but is there actually a speaker out there that makes bose sound good?

Tiny PC-Speakers aside, what sounds worse than bose?


Well yes there are speakers worse than Bose, I can't think of any off the top of my head right now, but they are extremely cheep to buy, Bose are not cheep. So that makes Bose the worst speakers you can buy.

Tiny PC-Speakers aside, what sounds worse than bose?

My alarm clock.

The speakers in my cell phone.

Not much else...

I will take that as a joke.


Yes it's a Joke exept for the 601 Seiries! The old ones that is.

I'm pretty sure my alarm clock sounds better than Bose. Joking aside, as a previous Bose owner, I can definitely say the sound was incredibly horrible for the price. If Bose was 1/5th of what they sell for, they wouldn't be all that bad of a deal, but when comparing speakers in their price range, it's just a ripoff. Also, I don't understand why their small size makes them a reason to get them, as many other brands offer similar sizes and styles that sound much better.

Also, I don't understand why their small size makes them a reason to get them, as many other brands offer similar sizes and styles that sound much better.
Because they're ubiquitous and well known.

My alarm clock.

The speakers in my cell phone.

Not much else...
You beat me to it. I was going to give the same 2 examples! :D

I've honestly tried to like Bose...but I simply can't get passed the fact that they sound like ass. Whether it's their bookshelves or their horrid cubes...they simply don't sound good. The only Bose speaker I thought sounded okay were their outdoor ones...probably because those have Kevlar cones opposed to the cardboard used elsewhere.

These comments are the funniest....as if the material the speaker cones were made of were the primary reason for poor sound.....guess many Velodyne subs stink too with their "cardboard cones". No sense auditioning speakers...just list the material they're made from in decreasing order of preference, kevlar first, paper last......and order them by mail.

Yes, Yes & Yes

Bose HT speakers get a lot of negative comments. I bought my AM10s about about 10yrs ago. At the time I feel victim to mass media marketing, the nice look and pkg of the small cubes. And Bose had the best set-up in the Military BX (Base-Exchange) where I purchase them.

Needless to say I held on to them. Even got them prewired in to my new home when it was getting built. To my suprise later on I found out they the "base module" was not actually a subwoofer to get the 5.1 effect. So I had to purchase a real sub to supplement the Bose. Looks pretty ugly having twp "base modules" taking up space on your floor!

I've learned from the error of my ways and now I'm looking at purchasing "better" speakers. With that said, Is it better to upgrade my receiver First or go with the new speakers?

I currently own a Pioneer VSX-1014TX receiver, want to eventually replace it with the Denon 2807 receiver.

Speaker options are:

Definitive Technology
B & W
Mirage
Infinity


Thanks! :o

^ chuckJ, you're better off asking in the receiver and speakers sub-forums. First off, try to sell your Bose stuff to some suck on Ebay or Craigslist. Then buy a new receiver and speakers around the same time. Like I said research and ask in the respective sub-forums. Good luck and I'm sure your ears will appreciate the nice upgrade. :cool:

Thanks, I'll do that.

I too used to swear by Bose, but that was in 1996 before forums like this were very popular. I just sent my Bose lifestyle 12 in for repair (flat $160 rate) - the subwoofer just don't have any bass, the control unit's LCD quit working years ago, and the CD just skips. But my wife actually asked me, why have you kept that thing for so long? You usually have the newest things? (We just bought a Samsung 46" LN-T4665F).

So now I'm looking for an alternative, but would like to leverage the existing wiring as much as possible.

I have the Cube speakers installed with the bose wall brackets in my ceiling. What can I replace them with? I will mainly use this system with Movies, and I want to utilize the same brackets if possible. I saw some people recommended the ProCinema 1000 system. I'm looking for something that has a similar form factor (small satellites and subwoofer).

Now the next thing is, what is a good mid-range receiver (around $1,000) that can pass everything through HDMI?

Now the next thing is, what is a good mid-range receiver (around $1,000) that can pass everything through HDMI?


Denon 2808, msrp about $1100. it has all the bells and whistles incl. hdmi 1.3 and 1080p passthru.

I have the Cube speakers installed with the bose wall brackets in my ceiling. What can I replace them with?

Take a look at Orb Audio for speakers. They're highly thought of and approximately the same size.

Jim

Easy there, trigger, you're about to put a burr under my saddle. I happen to work for the company that brews what you refer to as "vile dreck". FYI, Budweiser is brewed identical at all breweries throughout the United States and at their contract brewing partners throughout the world. The only difference being water source. I really don't take too kindly to you badmouthing such an established product in the beer industry. Budweiser here in the states has a very crisp, clean, refreshing taste to it, and while it may not meet everybody's taste preferences (similar to speakers), it doesn't deserve the criticism you just gave it. Budweiser is brewed under some of the tightest quality controls in manufacturing (brewing), and use some of the finest ingredients you'll find at any price point. You have no idea of the amount of quality that goes into every serving of Budweiser.

I do not mean to hijack this thread, but at the same time I can't stand around and do nothing.
Bud sucks, sorry. It gives me a headache.
It doesn't even come close to Sam Adams, not in the same league.
Bud survives due to marketing.

I dont understand the whole "wife doesnt like how good speakers look" thing...Most good floor standers/bookshelves are big sure,but they also usually look pretty awesome to me..especially some of the higher end with rosewood finishes and stuf..how could anyone prefer the laughable look of tiny plastic boses to that is beyond me


I actually think bose makes some pretty good speakers, But their are similar sounding speakers that can be bought elsewhere. But I admit I would Buy a pair of USED 301's or 601 seireies floor speakers if i could find em for cheap. The Acoustimassd is the speaker that people seem to dislike the most and undestandably so, seince the sub has the dialoge coming from it (I can live with that) but I heard the bass doesnt go very low and the bass module is bass shy which I cant live with. I dont have 1000 dollars to waste on speakers anyway.

I once saw at a Flea market a Pair of new Chinese speakers labled Jung Xing or something like that, which looked exactly like the Bose 301 bookshelf speakers but they had a better sounding tweeter and a better woofer.

The Durabrand/lennox sound HT319 wrong model number? is only $59.99
and the subwoofer on that system can go lower that the Bose acoustomass sytem (about 22 HZ) and the Subwoofer small in size compared to the BOSE.

And this No highs No lows must be bose stuff is a little stupid because on the other speakers than the acoustimass and tiny speakers I do Indeed hear "highs and lows" and no I dont need a hearing aid.

When I was a in high school about a year ago My Orchestra teacher had a BOSE Acoustimass 321 system hooked up to the TV in the orchestra room and we were watching the musical film "south Pacific" and the Bass and highs was definately there (the bass was loud) (cant be too good for his neighbors) :eek: :D

the orchestra room has acoustic panels on one side and bare white painted concrete on the other and the room is big and somewhat resonant when the orchestra is smaller.

Denon 2808, msrp about $1100. it has all the bells and whistles incl. hdmi 1.3 and 1080p passthru.
gcruz, I also recommend Onkyo TX-SR805 or even the 875, which upscales everything. I think that can be had for about a grand. I have its little brother (605) and it's working well, although I don't have an HDMI-equipped TV yet. All 3 of these receivers support HDMI 1.3.

Wow, 34 pages and still going strong...I cannot believe it. Usually when the word "Bose" is mentioned, especially in a thread title, it gets shut down in a matter of days. I am impressed.

Wow, 34 pages and still going strong...I cannot believe it. Usually when the word "Bose" is mentioned, especially in a thread title, it gets shut down in a matter of days. I am impressed.
This is the Bose super thread since we know Bose is so super. :p

This is the Bose super thread since we know Bose is so super. :p
LMAO! :D

I am starting to think bose is like "kleenex", no, its tissue. So when I tell someone I have an awesome setup and they say "oh you have bose" I am going to just say "yep".