I am starting to think bose is like "kleenex", no, its tissue. So when I tell someone I have an awesome setup and they say "oh you have bose" I am going to just say "yep".

LOL I'd be too proud to make that kind of statement. I wouldn't want my speakers to be held in the same breath as Bose. My speakers deserve better. ;)

lol bud is to beer as bose is to audio. That is a good analogy. Maybe they both use good QC but neither uses good ingredients, at least not imo. Any beer that uses such small amounts of hops isnt going to go well on my pallette. (do they even put hops in budweiser)
I have no idea the qc from bose though, but at the price point they should. I've heard a bose system before and although it didnt sound horrible, i knew it was lacking in several areas. Bottom end was pretty weak and midrange wasn't good either. highs were decent but thats all you got. And the bass you do get is really boomy. The only thing that really hits are notes probably 40-60hz. @20hz output is almost nothing.

Bud sucks, sorry. It gives me a headache.
It doesn't even come close to Sam Adams, not in the same league.
Bud survives due to marketing.

You're going to go with Sam Adams to pick a fight with...that's funny stuff.:D

LOL I'd be too proud to make that kind of statement. I wouldn't want my speakers to be held in the same breath as Bose. My speakers deserve better. Thanks, I hear ya on that one. Its just that I feel like I have crushed a persons entire belief system when I say "They really aren't that good". That or they look at me like I am completely retarded and must have been living in a closet my whole life because "haven't you seen the commercials?"

That bose commercial where they cut out all of the background sound and there is no music, just the announcers voice which is like a perfect timbred voice, like they are trying to convince you that your own speakers somehow sound better because the bose commercial sounds soo good. Pay attention to that one if you haven't yet, very clever advertising, they stray away from sounds that would stress your current system to somehow, sway you to believe that bose has something to do with his voice.

I think Bose must be discussed on the merits of each product.

Most people agree their accoustimass junk sucks. But it does what it's supposed to: small, attractive and fills room with sound.

But I would have to say their Wave radios are pretty darn good for what they are. I have a Boston Accoustics alarm clock radio which doesn't compete, though it's priced considerably less.

I'm also under the impression the 901 series is still quality. Maybe a bit overpriced. But it's not junk like the accoustimass. All hearsay though. I once owned a pair of 301 series. They were fine. Nothing special. Not ridiculously priced.

You're going to go with Sam Adams to pick a fight with...that's funny stuff.:D


Although i'm not a real big sam adams fan,
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/35/104

They seem to get pretty darn good reviews overall.. Believe me, there arent very many macrobrews in the 80's on that site. The only other one that scores as good is sierra nevada, which is a personal favorite of mine.


as for blows (bose), i'm sure they have a decent speaker or two out there, they just don't focus on that nowadays because they make more money selling crap speakers for lots of money.

lol bud is to beer as bose is to audio. That is a good analogy. Maybe they both use good QC but neither uses good ingredients, at least not imo. Any beer that uses such small amounts of hops isnt going to go well on my pallette. (do they even put hops in budweiser)
I have no idea the qc from bose though, but at the price point they should. I've heard a bose system before and although it didnt sound horrible, i knew it was lacking in several areas. Bottom end was pretty weak and midrange wasn't good either. highs were decent but thats all you got. And the bass you do get is really boomy. The only thing that really hits are notes probably 40-60hz. @20hz output is almost nothing.


I've had far worse beer than bud...like Keystone Light for example.



I had to painfully setup a Bose system for a family friend before...I actually preferred their Sony RP's speakers over the Bose cubes. They were much clearer!

If Bose were priced like Bud there wouldn't be a problem. The problem is that it is priced like Sam Adams.

Although i'm not a real big sam adams fan,
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/35/104

They seem to get pretty darn good reviews overall.. Believe me, there arent very many macrobrews in the 80's on that site. The only other one that scores as good is sierra nevada, which is a personal favorite of mine.


Again, like speakers, beer is a personal preference and I prefer beer that isn't traded on the NYSE....for many reasons:D

Let's please keep the beer talk out of this thread. :)

i think we all just prefer beer over bose. But yeah, probably should stick to audio talk on here.

Before you guys start pounding, I must confess to being a total speaker newbie.

Bose appears to be almost universally NOT recommended on this board.

For a product that is so popular in the mainstream, with what appears to be a decent range of products (cost wise)... Why does everyone dismiss them?

You so should have not started this dumb thread, 4 years on this forum and you knew it was going to be a flame fest, next you will want to know what expensive cables to buy.:rolleyes:

You so should have not started this dumb thread, 4 years on this forum and you knew it was going to be a flame fest, next you will want to know what expensive cables to buy.:rolleyes:

I completely disagree w/ you. This thread serves a great purpose to enlighten others that better alternatives exist at a more competitive price.

you know the saying "ignorance is bliss"

certain people really live by that.. and you hurt monsteraudios feelings.

I think Bose must be discussed on the merits of each product.

Most people agree their accoustimass junk sucks. But it does what it's supposed to: small, attractive and fills room with sound.

But I would have to say their Wave radios are pretty darn good for what they are. I have a Boston Accoustics alarm clock radio which doesn't compete, though it's priced considerably less.

I'm also under the impression the 901 series is still quality. Maybe a bit overpriced. But it's not junk like the accoustimass. All hearsay though. I once owned a pair of 301 series. They were fine. Nothing special. Not ridiculously priced.

Listen to the Cambridge Soundworks equivalent of the Wave Radio. Sounds better at close to half the price. I've had one for 8 years now. Still sounds great. My B&W/Rotel system can't even be compared to any Bose system. Save your money in your house and in your car when it comes to bose.

Funny thing is that you guys argue abot BOSE acoustimass systems beieing overpriced and are only worth 300-400 bucks compared to the $1,000 retail price. At best by a certain BOSE 2.1 Home theatre system is only $499. bucks which is clearly a more reasonable price which is only $100.00 more than its actual value not much if you have the money and want it.

I listened to an acoustimass in a store and it souned more like a set of competant bookshelf speakers to me and not a sub but they are good for apartments wher 20 hz frequencies are a NO NO.
In order to make the BASS tighter in the acoustimass module/sub. A thin layer of epoxy applied to each woofer cone with a foam brush can be used to treat the untreated woofers underneath the acoustimass module thus yeilding some extra low frequencys.

The acoustimass systems nage good for rap music if it doesnt go down to a certain HZ

Interesting story I thought I would share. I was over a friend's house yesterday, I am not sure which BOSE system he has, but he had a 5.1 setup. He said "Did you ever hear this type of system", I played along and said "No, I have never heard a BOSE 5.1 system". He puts in a U2 CD and cranks it up, the sound was horrible, in my mind, in his mind it was awesome. Again, I was just like, "yeah it sounds good". Did I like the look of the cubes as opposed to my huge speakers, yes, was the wiring perfect, yes, did sound at all good, no. By no means am I an Audiophile and I know I don't have a kickass system at home (Polk Audio 7.1) system, but I know if I throw a SACD in of James Taylor the sound is much better then the BOSE system and I would be willing to bet my system was around the same cost as his. Just thought I would share that story.

I honestly can't believe I am writing this.

I am a DJ. A couple weeks ago I was at an afterparty at a friends house. There was a DJ and we were all hanging out. I remember sitting in the chair and thinking the sound is really good in here. Nice and Full, very spacious, sounds like I am at the club I just came from. Not your normal 2 Ch stereo sound. I looked at what was there, a set of Bose 301's and a nice amp running them. Ok, I am gonna have to check this out at my place. I have SVS SBS-01 5.1 Setup with their PB10-NSD. Overall the sound at my buddies I liked better. He didn't have the sub-bass that I do, but his sound was solid.

I have worked at Circuit City, The Good Guys, I am a THX certified Technician, I have been in the industry for over 12 years. So, I am still amazed that I am saying this stuff.

Anyhow, I just got a set of Bose 301 Series V and did an A B comparison against my SVS SBS-01's, with and with out the Sub. I am using the new Onkyo 805 Reciever.

I am selling my SVS SBS-01's, keeping the sub.

I can't believe how much better the sound is for me. I listen 90% to Electronic Dance Music and watch alot of movies. I have Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. I can honestly say that I am impressed with the Bose speakers and can't wait to get another set of 301's to replace my rears. I am a little skepitcal if the Bose center channel is going to be able to hold up, I guess I will find out.

I know you guys are gonna kill me for writing this, I would usually kill the guy who wrote this. So I sit here impressed and in shock.

Anyone in the San Fernando Valley (CA) who wants to hear what I am talking about, I would love to show them.

Enjoy

I havent heard the 301's that i can remember, but don't think they are a bad bookshelf speaker at around $300 a pair. The drivers are probably cheap though and the enclosure isn't rock solid (i'd bet) but nevermind that though, if they sound good thats what really matters.
Craigsub has a huge thread about bookshelf speakers and one shootout he compares the sbs-01's against the scs-01's against something else (ascend or something).. Well, he stated that it took almost no listening at all to determine that the sbs-01's was the worst speaker of the bunch and that if you can afford it you should definitely get the scs line instead. The price is a bit higher than the bose speakers but they are probably better.
I think most people think of bose as the company that makes the acoustimass system (and some really crappy car and computer speakers) when they refer to them in a bad light. There are also some people that don't like the 301's and the 901's either. As for me, I can't really say for sure because i havent heard them (except in a big room where i couldnt do any critical listening)

We have a pair of Bose 301s, one of the older versions, up at my cabin and they actually do a pretty good job. I can't say they are the most accurate of speakers (and I have not done any critical listening to them) but they produce a nice rich sound that fills the room quite well for a bookshelf speaker. They really are a different animal than the cube speakers that get most of the hate, especially the older ones I believe.

Friends don't let friends buy Bose....

The most over marketed, over-hyped, under-performing, low quality money-wasting CE products ever.

Or was that Monster Cable?

I honestly can't believe I am writing this.

I am a DJ. A couple weeks ago I was at an afterparty at a friends house. There was a DJ and we were all hanging out. I remember sitting in the chair and thinking the sound is really good in here. Nice and Full, very spacious, sounds like I am at the club I just came from. Not your normal 2 Ch stereo sound. I looked at what was there, a set of Bose 301's and a nice amp running them. Ok, I am gonna have to check this out at my place. I have SVS SBS-01 5.1 Setup with their PB10-NSD. Overall the sound at my buddies I liked better. He didn't have the sub-bass that I do, but his sound was solid.

I have worked at Circuit City, The Good Guys, I am a THX certified Technician, I have been in the industry for over 12 years. So, I am still amazed that I am saying this stuff.

Anyhow, I just got a set of Bose 301 Series V and did an A B comparison against my SVS SBS-01's, with and with out the Sub. I am using the new Onkyo 805 Reciever.

I am selling my SVS SBS-01's, keeping the sub.

I can't believe how much better the sound is for me. I listen 90% to Electronic Dance Music and watch alot of movies. I have Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. I can honestly say that I am impressed with the Bose speakers and can't wait to get another set of 301's to replace my rears. I am a little skepitcal if the Bose center channel is going to be able to hold up, I guess I will find out.

I know you guys are gonna kill me for writing this, I would usually kill the guy who wrote this. So I sit here impressed and in shock.

Anyone in the San Fernando Valley (CA) who wants to hear what I am talking about, I would love to show them.

Enjoy
This confirms that all that DJ'ing at loud clubs has made you gone deaf! :p

j/k You found new love in your friend's Bose 301 speakers. But like someone else said, your SVS bookshelf speakers weren't great to begin with (no offense). I wonder how those Bose 301 speakers would stack up against other well-regarded low-cost bookshelf speakers, such as AV123 x-ls. :)

No offense but electronic dance music is pretty much a repeating beat and range.

and...after party...possibly impaired judgement???

Might want to try tweaking your receiver settings or placement before getting rid of the SVS's.

i doubt craigsub would add bose 301's to his shootout but who knows.. It would be interesting to see none the less.

here is what you get when searching for Specifications :

Dimensions (H x W x D):

Each speaker • 25 x 36 x 25cm • 5.7kg

Pair in carton • 13kg


Even consumer brands tell you a range...

This thread is a great Friday afternoon killing time cause I don't want to work read.

Here's my story, personally I hate Bud and Bose......but to each his own.
PBR FTW! :p


Anyway,
My boss (total snob) and another coleague at work (snob#2) both go on and on about how what they have, where they go, what they do, and where/what they eat are so superior to all the rest of the lowlifes here at work. I do have to say snob#1 has some taste, she (yes She) owns a set of older Maggy's (but to that she also owns a amp or reciever that she doesn't know what brand it is, and she bought the Maggy's because they look good with her decor) but bought her hubby a Bose 5.1 system for their tv. She raves about the sound of that system and doesn't even use the Maggy's, she was talking to me the other day about selling them.

Snob#2, spend over $15k for a projector HT system a couple of years ago, I was talking to him the other day about my search for some new speakers, I never knew what sound set up he had with his HT. He told me to go buy the best.....buy Bose. I just gave him a strange look and asked if that is what he had, oh yes and I love it. He was like, what you don't think Bose has great sound, I just bit the hell out of my tongue and quietly said, "well, I think there are better out there so I'm going to do some looking before I buy.

I feel soo much better now knowing the truth about the snob train of thought, and really glad that I'm only a snob where it really counts!

I bought a pair of Bose Omnivector Model 3 speakers in 1985. I compared them to other speakers that were at the store, and the Bose speakers were by far and away the best. I still have and use them, but it's time for new surround foam. I'm pretty satisfied with the way they sound, hooked up to a harman kardon HK6600 amp. Nothing wrong with the Omnivectors.

Got the rest of the Bose setup this week.

So, 301's in the Front and the Rear, and the Bose VCS Center Channel.

Re-ran the Audyssey calibration on my Onkyo 805 and I must say. Amazing sound.

I don't know if most people would be into it. I just listened to a live broadcast of Tiesto ( Big Dance Music DJ). Sounded just like I was there, this is something that conventional speakers just can't achieve. Mirage Omnipole might be similar. Having rear-firing drivers, fills the room with an ambient sound, that I only hear in larger venues. Clubs, Stadiums, etc.

Anyhow that's my 2 cents. I have been around the block a couple times, never gone really hi hi end, cause I can't afford it.

I am really happy with this set-up and don't anticipate wanting to change it for a long time.

Again, I am primarily watching movies and listening to Dance Music.

I don't even understand the whole WAF thing. When I took my wife shopping for speakers she was all set to rearrange our finances and buy a pair of B&W 802Ds. I had to be the one to convince her that they were too big for our living room and double our budget.

I don't even understand the whole WAF thing. When I took my wife shopping for speakers she was all set to rearrange our finances and buy a pair of B&W 802Ds. I had to be the one to convince her that they were too big for our living room and double our budget.

Dave,

You are a lucky, lucky man. Whatever you do, don't get rid of that wife.

Jim

I am really happy with this set-up and don't anticipate wanting to change it for a long time.

Again, I am primarily watching movies and listening to Dance Music.

Robert,

You being happy with your system is all that really matters. Don't listen to the Bose-bashers.

Jim

One of my friends told me his friend bought a Bose surround sound system and claims it sounds "really good". I told him that compared to TV speakers, they'll sound magnificent. But compared to an equally-priced sound system, they'll sound inferior.

Before you guys start pounding, I must confess to being a total speaker newbie.

Bose appears to be almost universally NOT recommended on this board.

For a product that is so popular in the mainstream, with what appears to be a decent range of products (cost wise)... Why does everyone dismiss them?

...Hey are you one of them cc reps I just talked to??? ...they was trying to say (today) even the Bose 321 2 speaker system is better than the kef 3005...

I'm no expert, come on, the bose look cool, the split speakers they have neat idea, listen the to them yourself, then come back and tell everyone how they blew everything away, am16 not bad, just no that much for the money as example, many others sound better too.

...should know that part of the reason the bose is on their own with bose demo is the fact they are using recordings made to shine on the bose - drop in nice bass'y punchy movie or song...

Bose must have some great sales rep. spiff going on right now of something... and hey if you buy it and like, thats great, really, that is what matters most right? If not, like you said, many here are deal finders and some pretty good sound people, plus they share some of the great sounding products they have found out there for the rest of us willing to look at something other than just Bose, and if bose is that good, why worry, we'll all buy bose anyways right????

...see, bose is not being dismissed on you, simply compared and shopped up against with other brands, thats all...

I can honestly say that the sound quality of the stereo speakers on my cell phone(Nokia N75) is superior to the sound of Bose speakers

I once was an idiot and bought one of those acoustimass systems. What the hell are those no range little cubes supposed to do anyways? After 3 days of cranking various movies/music/tv programs and wondering where the $700 of sound was, I threw everything into the box it came in and drove 100mph to get rid of it.
Since then I have been building my HT piece by piece, consisting of Def Tech towers/surrounds/center, Mirage Omni sub...

Never would I recommend this mass marketed waste of money to any human or animal. Cant believe I fell for it considering I work in advertising.

I'm so proud of myself. I enlightened another coworker that Bose is not all it's cracked up to be. I showed him this intellexual page (http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html) and he was thrilled I informed him. He was looking at getting a surround sound system and wanted Bose, but now he'll look elsewhere. :cool:

LOL @ BOSE = "Buy Other Sound Equipment" :D

I added it to my favorites.

I am not an expert when it comes to speakers...but I have owned more than a few brands that were considered high end speakers like Polk, Infinity, and Energy.

Now I have Bose,mostly because the wife hates large speakers and because Bose offers payment plans and a trial.

Those who say that Bose sounds the same as most $200-$300 HTIB to me that is an obvious tell for me that those people for sure have never owned a Bose speaker system with a true high wattage receiver. I use an Onkyo 604 which is a very solid receiver with 90 Watts a channel those are TRUE watts unlike your typical Panasonic or JVC 1000 watt htib receiver.

I can turn up my Onyo all the way up and not distort these small cube speakers. If Bose really used cheap materials to make their speakers distortion would be unavoidable. This same receiver hooked up to my previous speakers that were Cerwin Vega's with a 15" woofers would distort before my Bose speakers would.

That has got to say something for Bose. I admit $1000 is a lot of money, maybe I would feel as if I was getting a better deal if these speakers were huge towers... I'm not sure, I don't consider myself as being biased because I own these speakers because I am in the trial period and If I thought they were not up to my standards they would be gone.

Bose has a return rate of 4% and that is very small percent esp. considering their purchase price.

There are many brands out there that make excellent speakers, some use a higher quality cabinet where others use a cheaper cabinet and a better speaker material, and vice versa. At the end of the day it all comes down to what sounds best to you in your specific listening environment.

if you are so sure they don't distort how about you take some measurements? The bose systems i've heard before didnt go but 95db or so before they distorted..
I'll admit they minimize the effect by making drivers that just don't cover a wide frequency range at all.. Try sending a 60hz tone to those satellites and see how well they do.. Do the same with a decent set of towers/bookshelves and you'll see . So many people who buy htib type systems have no idea what music is really supposed to sound like. I was the same way for years. I always had my eq such that the treble was turned up and the bass as well. Bose gives you a big hump in those two areas by default and sucks everywhere else. That bandpass "bass module" that they have has horrible frequency response.. Don't believe me? Try WOTW scenes such as pods emerging and compare it to a sub from a manufacturer such as HSU, SVS, Epik, eD, etc, and you'll realize that junky sub only plays bass up from around 40hz.

Bose has a place in the audio world, just not the high end.. or middle.. more like the low end. Yet they tout themselves at being like the definition of high end audio... Which is completely bogus.

As I mentioned I did have very large speakers (actually that’s all I have ever owned) before the Bose Htib system. I admit that when you have a sub and satellite speakers you’re absolutely going to miss out on some ranges that only large woofers and mid range speakers together will give you.

I usually do not use a sound meter to test the frequency ranges that I am getting. If I could afford the best of the best speakers then maybe then, but I can’t justify worrying about ranges that I might be missing that I would need another electronic device to tell me. So if my ears can't tell me I am missing some important audio ranges then I really don't mind.

If anyone searches they will be able to find an infinite amount of reasons why someone out there feels Bose is junk. For instance my father heard I bought a Bose system and he mentioned that "Bose is the best you can get right" I told him absolutely not, so I agree they are over rated and over hyped and I realize they use a paper cone but somehow they manage to get a very good sound out of those very small speakers.

With any speakers it really makes a world of difference as to whats powering those speakers. Your going to get different specs off Bose speakers when changing from receiver to receiver. Since Bose does not list their speakers specs you cant be sure what hz your getting when different power sources (recievers) are being used.

I would venture to say that an Onkyo or a Harman and Kardon powered Bose speaker system sounds better than it would using a Bose amp.

I'll start by saying I am not an audiophile by any means, but do appreciate quality sounding audio and speakers.
I'm almost settled on going with Def Tech or Klipsch for my 7.1 HT system that I'm building in the basement and Bose was never an option...not even on my long list. Now I know why!
Heck...I remember back in the mid 70s while stationed in the Phillipines, the 901s were supposed to be some sort of "high tech" premium speaker. But nobody I knew bought them. I bought Sansui SP-5500s (which I still own) while others bought either Kenwood or Pioneer because even the Japanese speakers at that time all seem to sound so much better.
I think most are right about Bose marketing because our BJs store has the accousticsmass system right as you walk through the door and enter the audio/TV section.
This post has been educational... and really hillarious...lol!!!

I was testing the Ipod docks at Best Buy, the bose Ipod dock sounded the best of all the ones I tested. But looking at the price, pfff......is a big turn off.

I don't even understand the whole WAF thing. When I took my wife shopping for speakers she was all set to rearrange our finances and buy a pair of B&W 802Ds. I had to be the one to convince her that they were too big for our living room and double our budget.

You are a lucky man. My wife cries everytime I bring home a pair of speakers.

Not kidding.

Before you guys start pounding, I must confess to being a total speaker newbie.

Bose appears to be almost universally NOT recommended on this board.

For a product that is so popular in the mainstream, with what appears to be a decent range of products (cost wise)... Why does everyone dismiss them?

Dont let other people spend your money for you. Audition speakers, the one YOU like are the ones YOU buy.

I saw the 3-2-1 commercial and payed close attention. The "audio process engineer" says in the commercial "This set up is far superior to the speakers in the average TV set" Duh. If you really listen to Bose's own advertising they never make a claim that they are truly a good speaker system.

The Durabrand/lennox sound HT319 wrong model number? is only $59.99
and the subwoofer on that system can go lower that the Bose acoustomass sytem (about 22 HZ)

Uh, no. Not 22 Hz.

I've read the first and last page of this thread, and while I don't think I can add much to the excellent anti Bose posts, but let me try, as I was a dealer for 10 years (and I think I still am in theory, but I don't install many sound systems any more).

Bose has 3 main lines:

-car
-home
-Pro.

I was a pro dealer at pro.bose.com if anyone wants to see their pro offering.

As many people here have said, Bose is very well marketed, and I believe is/was one of North America's top 10 recognized product brands. That's saying something. No question that Bose is usually 20-50% more expensive than similar products from other companies. The marketing hype allows a sales person to sell a $1200 Bose sub/cube system way faster than let's say an $800 Boston Acoustics system, that you need to sell the customer into. So if the customer comes in asking for Bose, a good sales person will damn well sell that $1200 system, even if the $800 BA system sounds better. More commission in the sales person's pocket, less time spent with the customer, blah blah.

As a warranty depot for Bose for a long time as well both on the pro and consumer level, I've sure seen my share of 'blowed up real good' subwoofers. 'Yeah, everything sounded great last night at the party until about midnight, then everything sounded tinny' is a common problem..:) The 2 X 6" subwoofer boxes are complete pieces of crap in the consumer line. I personally hate bandpass boxes anyways, but Bose take the word crap to a new low with those subs..;)

'Special flared bass ports to prevent air turbulence noise?' Give me an effing break!

So that's the consumer side. Marketing and hype for the unwashed masses to consume.

On the pro side however, I've had great success with Bose. As with the consumer side of things, you need to know where a Bose speaker will work. 800 watts through a sub/satellite system will not. 50 watts from a small consumer receiver that is driving living room speakers for the wife's background music sure will.

I've installed many arena systems with Bose Panarays. They are tiny and unobtrusive as compared to the competitor's 15" 2 way boxes, and doing a demo on the ice surface as we've done many times over the large cluster that is located overhead has convinced many customers to buy my stuff. DItto for the Bose Model 32 in ceiling speaker for restaurants and hotels, which in my opinion is one of the best in ceiling speakers for commercial use out there.

Is it the best stuff out there? No, not at all. In general, Bose is insanely inefficient, requiring large amount of power to drive the cone speakers as compared to say a compression horn. But installed correctly within it's limits, it works well, and is a very easy sell to a typical end user.

Ok I hate to bring back an old thread but I had this happen to me yesterday. I have a Bose accoustimas system in my living room and Polk speakers with an Onkyo receiver in my bed room. I have always thought that Bose was a great system and worth every penny. But since putting together my Polk speakers with Onkyo receiver together I had changed my opinion. But what REALLY made me change my opinion was this.

Yesterday I was calibrating my TV when I decided (after calibrating it) that I would try it out by playing the movie "live free or die hard". There's one scene that I really like and it's the part when Bruce Willis is in the tunnel and they redirect traffic to try and kill him. The kid leaves the car, Bruce grabs him and this car comes flying down, but there are two cars besides them that block the car from crushing down on them (I hope you guys know what part I'm talking about). Anyways, I had played this movie before on my Polks and on that part when the car is dropping down there is this deep bass produced (which sounds really nice on my Dayton sub-120). But that frequency was completely missing on my Bose bass module. I thought there must have been something wrong with the set up so I disconnected the cube speaker and I also notice that you could hear the complete dialog through the bass module (there's no dialog coming out of my Dayton sub-120 with Onkyo receiver). Perplexed, this morning I decided to see if this was common and I ran into this site: http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html and it seems my Bose just blows! There was so much sound missing! I'm so pissed I missed out so many sound details in the past. Anyways if anyone has any doubts about my story get this movie and try it out and you'll see that I’m not making this up. If you believe I’m not correct please post and advise me on what I’m doing wrong (besides purchasing a Bose in the first place).

And there you have it. Silverwolf's story is a perfect example of why Bose sucks.

This thread is a great Friday afternoon killing time cause I don't want to work read.

Here's my story, personally I hate Bud and Bose......but to each his own.
PBR FTW! :p


Anyway,
My boss (total snob) and another coleague at work (snob#2) both go on and on about how what they have, where they go, what they do, and where/what they eat are so superior to all the rest of the lowlifes here at work. I do have to say snob#1 has some taste, she (yes She) owns a set of older Maggy's (but to that she also owns a amp or reciever that she doesn't know what brand it is, and she bought the Maggy's because they look good with her decor) but bought her hubby a Bose 5.1 system for their tv. She raves about the sound of that system and doesn't even use the Maggy's, she was talking to me the other day about selling them.

Snob#2, spend over $15k for a projector HT system a couple of years ago, I was talking to him the other day about my search for some new speakers, I never knew what sound set up he had with his HT. He told me to go buy the best.....buy Bose. I just gave him a strange look and asked if that is what he had, oh yes and I love it. He was like, what you don't think Bose has great sound, I just bit the hell out of my tongue and quietly said, "well, I think there are better out there so I'm going to do some looking before I buy.

I feel soo much better now knowing the truth about the snob train of thought, and really glad that I'm only a snob where it really counts!

I'm definitely new with this whole thing. But I've grown up with Bose (mainly cus my Dad loves there stuff) and i'll say yes..they are overpriced for what they are...but they definitely make nice stuff..they look good, are always very conveniently sized, product good quality despite the size. easy to install and use..i think the only thing it has against it.the price, but i'll understand why they keep their prices high it just sets it in a different class. MUch like an LV wallet compared a Kenneth Cole Leather wallet. The LV wallet will last you 10+ years and is beautiful, is it worth 6-10x the price..probably not, but a lot of ppl will want it and buy it..maybe a bad analogy?

~G

..i think the only thing it has against it.

That and the sound.:rolleyes:

So I have a hand me down bose system. I do want to eventually change my speakers...but hey not everyone has $1-2k to throw down on some good speakers. But yeah i think what really lacks in my bose speakers is the bass..and i have not one..but two of those damn bass modules (i think my system is some kind of combo of a 3 speaker and 2 speaker set by bose...but hey for some reason it works)..so i was thinking..maybe i just buy an external powered sub and hook it up to my onkyo 605..anyone know how important it is to make sure that external sub matches or not?
~G

No offense but electronic dance music is pretty much a repeating beat and range.

and...after party...possibly impaired judgement???

Might want to try tweaking your receiver settings or placement before getting rid of the SVS's.

Got the rest of the Bose setup this week.

So, 301's in the Front and the Rear, and the Bose VCS Center Channel.

Re-ran the Audyssey calibration on my Onkyo 805 and I must say. Amazing sound.

I don't know if most people would be into it. I just listened to a live broadcast of Tiesto ( Big Dance Music DJ). Sounded just like I was there, this is something that conventional speakers just can't achieve. Mirage Omnipole might be similar. Having rear-firing drivers, fills the room with an ambient sound, that I only hear in larger venues. Clubs, Stadiums, etc.

Anyhow that's my 2 cents. I have been around the block a couple times, never gone really hi hi end, cause I can't afford it.

I am really happy with this set-up and don't anticipate wanting to change it for a long time.

Again, I am primarily watching movies and listening to Dance Music.

You are right about that.

Robert,

You being happy with your system is all that really matters. Don't listen to the Bose-bashers.

Jim

I agree

I don't even understand the whole WAF thing. When I took my wife shopping for speakers she was all set to rearrange our finances and buy a pair of B&W 802Ds. I had to be the one to convince her that they were too big for our living room and double our budget.

The speakers can Never be to big! :D

Uh, no. Not 22 Hz.

How so you know? :confused: but the Durabrand HT3917 does go lower and sounds better than the BOSE. :D

So I have a hand me down bose system. I do want to eventually change my speakers...but hey not everyone has $1-2k to throw down on some good speakers. But yeah i think what really lacks in my bose speakers is the bass..and i have not one..but two of those damn bass modules (i think my system is some kind of combo of a 3 speaker and 2 speaker set by bose...but hey for some reason it works)..so i was thinking..maybe i just buy an external powered sub and hook it up to my onkyo 605..anyone know how important it is to make sure that external sub matches or not?
~G

Enough people have been duped into believing that Bose makes decent stuff that you might be able to get a fair amount for yours on ebay. Then you can use the money to buy real speakers. (The $50/pr Polks at Frys dramatically outperform the top of the Bose line.)

Enough people have been duped into believing that Bose makes decent stuff that you might be able to get a fair amount for yours on ebay. Then you can use the money to buy real speakers. (The $50/pr Polks at Frys dramatically outperform the top of the Bose line.)

Anyone else see the hypocrisy in this. Let's assume Bose is the worst speaker ever made for sake of arguement.
He is telling you, you are a sucker for buying them. Shame on Bose for selling you such garbage at such marked up prices.
Fret not, you can still sell them on Ebay to some other idiots, b/c they market them so well.
Seems pretty selfish and hypocritical if you believed his opinion that Bose speakers are the worst to begin with.

Don't worry though, let me show you my favorite speakers, so you can be just like me.:rolleyes:

Enough people have been duped into believing that Bose makes decent stuff that you might be able to get a fair amount for yours on ebay. Then you can use the money to buy real speakers. (The $50/pr Polks at Frys dramatically outperform the top of the Bose line.)

Are you telling people to buy the speakers you own again pulliam? :rolleyes:
If so then your sound system is superior to anyone elses just because it is yours and anyone else's setup is not worthy to your "golden ears." :rolleyes:
you probably have a Bose hidden in your closet away in case the audiophiles come over. :rolleyes: or worse your tone deaf which explains why you go through so many speakers. :eek::rolleyes:

Anyone else see the hypocrisy in this. Let's assume Bose is the worst speaker ever made for sake of arguement.
He is telling you, you are a sucker for buying them. Shame on Bose for selling you such garbage at such marked up prices.
Fret not, you can still sell them on Ebay to some other idiots, b/c they market them so well.
Seems pretty selfish and hypocritical if you believed his opinion that Bose speakers are the worst to begin with.

Don't worry though, let me show you my favorite speakers, so you can be just like me.:rolleyes:

I don't see any hypocrisy here. When someone sells a used product, they are saying that they no longer think the product worth keeping. When someone buys that product, they are saying that they think it worth the lower than list price they are paying, and they know that the seller no longer wants to keep it. People are going to continue to buy Bose speakers. At least, by selling your Bose system as a used product, you are saving the buyer of that system from paying full price for it.

And I don't think that Pulliamm owns the $50/pair Polks he recommended, so that seems like an unfair slam on him.

I confess I would buy a pair of Bose 301's (the old ones) or any of bose's old speakers. magnavox made a series of direct relecting speakers called the "balancer" series but they out performed most of the Bose speakers made back then in the 80's

Anyone else see the hypocrisy in this. Let's assume Bose is the worst speaker ever made for sake of arguement.
He is telling you, you are a sucker for buying them. Shame on Bose for selling you such garbage at such marked up prices.
Fret not, you can still sell them on Ebay to some other idiots, b/c they market them so well.
Seems pretty selfish and hypocritical if you believed his opinion that Bose speakers are the worst to begin with.


I don't believe that a well-aged bottle of scotch is worth anything, either. If some fool wants to give me $54,000 for one, though, I will certainly accept.:rolleyes:

Are you telling people to buy the speakers you own again pulliam? :rolleyes:


Nope. I don't have the Polks that Frys sells for $50/pr. Mine were $400/pr.

Nope. I don't have the Polks that Frys sells for $50/pr. Mine were $400/pr.

sorry Pu.ll.i.am (I just had to) its a play on the rapper's name Wi.ll.ia.m. I knew i should have controlled myself

How so you know? :confused: but the Durabrand HT3917 does go lower and sounds better than the BOSE. :D

Because it costs 59 dollars from Wal-Mart. Let me rephrase though, I'm sure it CAN do 22 Hz, it's just down about 60 dB at that point.

sorry Pu.ll.i.am (I just had to) its a play on the rapper's name Wi.ll.ia.m. I knew i should have controlled myself

Are you saying he got his speakers from his Mama? :D

Oh good - another Bose thread. Much ado . . . ;)

Oh good - another Bose thread. Much ado . . . ;)

we all knew another bose thread was coming! :D

Bose has made a successfull business making "Nose" speakers which sound like the acoustimass cubes have been shoveu up your nose! :p

I wouldn't sniff the superglue that holds them togeather it contains Cyanide! :D:p:eek:

I have said it before but it irks me everytime I see the stupid commercial...even in their own damn commercial they compare themselves to "the speakers in your TV" The guy says "they sound much better than the speakers in a television set"

i'll say yes..they are overpriced for what they are...but they definitely make nice stuff..they look good, are always very conveniently sized, product good quality despite the size.

No, they are not good quality - at least not in comparison to other similarly-priced products.

easy to install and use

This much is true. It is the ONE thing that the Bose systems really offer (though the small size is also attractive to those who don't like sound systems). Please note that neither size nor ease of installation have anything to do with sound quality.

..i think the only thing it has against it.the price, but i'll understand why they keep their prices high it just sets it in a different class.

Yup. Perceived value due to elevated pricing - PT Barnum had it right. Bose is very good at marketing.

MUch like an LV wallet compared a Kenneth Cole Leather wallet. The LV wallet will last you 10+ years and is beautiful, is it worth 6-10x the price..probably not, but a lot of ppl will want it and buy it..maybe a bad analogy?

It's a bad analogy. Bose would be more like the velcro/canvas wallet, but being sold at 3x the price of the Kenneth Cole leather wallet. Put enough marketing spin behind the ease of use and washability of the velcro and canvas, and you can convince people that it's better than leather.

Leather smells. :)

I'm definitely new with this whole thing. But I've grown up with Bose (mainly cus my Dad loves there stuff) and i'll say yes..they are overpriced for what they are...but they definitely make nice stuff..they look good, are always very conveniently sized, product good quality despite the size. easy to install and use..i think the only thing it has against it.the price, but i'll understand why they keep their prices high it just sets it in a different class. MUch like an LV wallet compared a Kenneth Cole Leather wallet. The LV wallet will last you 10+ years and is beautiful, is it worth 6-10x the price..probably not, but a lot of ppl will want it and buy it..maybe a bad analogy?

~G

Speaking of convenient size, The Nanosat 5.1 system sounds better and is priced lower than Bose.

No, they are not good quality - at least not in comparison to other similarly-priced products.


Nor in comparison to much, much lower-priced products.

Wow it's like a hardcore bash gspin2k1 thread now. Well anyway I didn't pay for my bose system it definitely does lack in some areas. I'm yet to experiment with cheaper better sounding systems, but I will when I got the cash/time. Regarding overall value it's hard to say...Bose is very convenient on their size and ease of install..and no one can deny that. And yes it's nice to show off to ppl who aren't hardcore audiophiles. Now if I just bought a brand new $1500-2000 system and invited an audiophile bud to come over and watch a movie, and he then did nothing but **** on my system with talk about how much better klipsch, kef, aperion etc. is for cheaper and blah blah..I'd just think that's a d*ck move.
Now I've never said anything about Bose being the best on the planet (like i've heard from others) as I'm yet to truly try out many other systems again do to time/money. But Bose does have a very good name (yes they have a good marketing program)..okay scratch that well known name. They make very nice looking speakers with quality that is great for those who probably like myself have not experienced any better than when sitting in an actual movie theater, and unlike a lot of other systems it will get "spousal approval" which is a huge factor for many people.
Anyway I actually AM on the lookout for a new speaker set cus i'll admit i've always felt my Bose system lacked bass, but as a current owner i must defend it to an extent. One could make the argument, if companies like KEF, Aperion, Klipsch, etc. so-called much better quality for the money brands did the same marketing as Bose to "educate" the average Home theater consumer (which just about everyone here is NOT). The pricing of their products would indeed go up, and in some cases above and beyond some of bose's lines ...and then everyone would have similar debates over the overpriced speakers and etc. of the other products.

I.e. If the KEF 3005 costs just about as much as the best Bose Lifestyle system. I'm sure it sounds a hell of a lot better, but if KEF marketed their product to Bose's extent. I'm sure that Kef3005 would no longer be $1300-1500..it'd be closer to $1500-2000 possibly more. Than to the other consumers looking at the two products..seeking "spousal approval" there would be much more favor on buying the Bose over the KEF.

Anyway sorry for the long thread. but just trying to bring some outside views and business perspective. I'll try for a better analogy...when buying sneakers, do you buy X brand from Walmart knowing full well it's the same crap as a Nike for $30 cheaper, or do you buy a Nike shoe?

~G


~G

Wow it's like a hardcore bash gspin2k1 thread now. Well anyway I didn't pay for my bose system it definitely does lack in some areas. I'm yet to experiment with cheaper better sounding systems, but I will when I got the cash/time. Regarding overall value it's hard to say...Bose is very convenient on their size and ease of install..and no one can deny that. And yes it's nice to show off to ppl who aren't hardcore audiophiles. Now if I just bought a brand new $1500-2000 system and invited an audiophile bud to come over and watch a movie, and he then did nothing but **** on my system with talk about how much better klipsch, kef, aperion etc. is for cheaper and blah blah..I'd just think that's a d*ck move.
Now I've never said anything about Bose being the best on the planet (like i've heard from others) as I'm yet to truly try out many other systems again do to time/money. But Bose does have a very good name (yes they have a good marketing program)..okay scratch that well known name. They make very nice looking speakers with quality that is great for those who probably like myself have not experienced any better than when sitting in an actual movie theater, and unlike a lot of other systems it will get "spousal approval" which is a huge factor for many people.
Anyway I actually AM on the lookout for a new speaker set cus i'll admit i've always felt my Bose system lacked bass, but as a current owner i must defend it to an extent. One could make the argument, if companies like KEF, Aperion, Klipsch, etc. so-called much better quality for the money brands did the same marketing as Bose to "educate" the average Home theater consumer (which just about everyone here is NOT). The pricing of their products would indeed go up, and in some cases above and beyond some of bose's lines ...and then everyone would have similar debates over the overpriced speakers and etc. of the other products.

I.e. If the KEF 3005 costs just about as much as the best Bose Lifestyle system. I'm sure it sounds a hell of a lot better, but if KEF marketed their product to Bose's extent. I'm sure that Kef3005 would no longer be $1300-1500..it'd be closer to $1500-2000 possibly more. Than to the other consumers looking at the two products..seeking "spousal approval" there would be much more favor on buying the Bose over the KEF.

Anyway sorry for the long thread. but just trying to bring some outside views and business perspective. I'll try for a better analogy...when buying sneakers, do you buy X brand from Walmart knowing full well it's the same crap as a Nike for $30 cheaper, or do you buy a Nike shoe?

~G


~G

Finally someone said it right this time I agree with everything you just posted. :)

Wow it's like a hardcore bash gspin2k1 thread now.

We're not bashing you - just Bose. Seriously - it's not anything directed at you.

Anyway sorry for the long thread. but just trying to bring some outside views and business perspective. I'll try for a better analogy...when buying sneakers, do you buy X brand from Walmart knowing full well it's the same crap as a Nike for $30 cheaper, or do you buy a Nike shoe?

I go to several stores and try on a bunch of pairs to see what fits best, and what is most comfortable within my budget. You should do the same with speakers. Bose relys on people not doing this....and they are proven right quite often.

We're not bashing you - just Bose. Seriously - it's not anything directed at you.



I go to several stores and try on a bunch of pairs to see what fits best, and what is most comfortable within my budget. You should do the same with speakers. Bose relys on people not doing this....and they are proven right quite often.

Yeah I'm that way with my running shoes. With my casual shoes..i tend to just hit up the foot locker or whatever as long as it's comfortable enough, and it looks nice..i'm scoring it...yeah maybe one shouldn't buy home theater systems that way. Well regardless wanted to add a different opinion to what has become a DIE BOSE DIE thread...Their Noise Cancelling Headphones are quite overpriced but I'll say very comfortable, portable and they sound good to me.

~G

Bose speakers do have miserable performance compared to the comparably priced systems that people talk about around here.

HOWEVER, in the vast non-audiophilic world, most post-construction home theater purchases are based ENTIRELY on WAF. Nobody else out there is making 4 inch cubes, hide-away amps, and slimline aluminum receivers. Throw in a much larger consumer and brand awareness along with the fact that they do sound much better than regular TV speakers (which is what most of their customers are used to hearing) and you will get huge sales.

Yes, their performance sucks for the price. But Bose isn't for audiophiles.

Bose speakers do have miserable performance compared to the comparably priced systems that people talk about around here.

HOWEVER, in the vast non-audiophilic world, most post-construction home theater purchases are based ENTIRELY on WAF. Nobody else out there is making 4 inch cubes, hide-away amps, and slimline aluminum receivers. Throw in a much larger consumer and brand awareness along with the fact that they do sound much better than regular TV speakers (which is what most of their customers are used to hearing) and you will get huge sales.

Yes, their performance sucks for the price. But Bose isn't for audiophiles.

I actually had to google "WAF" that's pretty funny.
~G

Much ado . . . ;)

Tom Clancy, right?

Most of you guys rapping Bose have speakers which I consider little better if at all. While you're looking down your nose at Bose I'm looking down my nose at you.

Most of you guys rapping Bose have speakers which I consider little better if at all. While you're looking down your nose at Bose I'm looking down my nose at you.

That's a rather elitist statement, don't you think? And, BTW, which of the 6 brands of speaker in my house do you think aren't worthy?

"While you're looking down your nose at Bose I'm looking down my nose at you" LOL, +1. Kef, Klipsch, Aperion, not exactly "hi end" stuff.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Bose threads are the most entertaining threads.

Kind of like Elitists vrs Elitists.
:D

Most of you guys rapping Bose have speakers which I consider little better if at all. While you're looking down your nose at Bose I'm looking down my nose at you.

That's half plausible because even when people have $100 speakers, at least they didn't pay $2000 for them..Which is what you do when you buy Bose. At every price there are great products - for the price, and horrible/overpriced ones..If my speakers cost me $1k and yours cost you $5k and they sound equal, I'm gonna look down my nose at you, even though you're a richer person with "higher end speakers"

I just tried looking down my nose and after 15 minutes it gave me a migraine. You guys are such bastards with your tricks.

I just tried looking down my nose and after 15 minutes it gave me a migraine. You guys are such bastards with your tricks.

LMAO! :D

And you wonder why it was just a figure-of-speach. :rolleyes:

I'm usually not much of a troll. But these Bose threads make me want to invite you all to take a long walk off a short pier. Hell, I'll go with you. Better yet, bring all the Bose.

Most of you guys rapping Bose have speakers which I consider little better if at all. While you're looking down your nose at Bose I'm looking down my nose at you.

All other speakers are significantly better than Bose.:rolleyes:

That's half plausible because even when people have $100 speakers, at least they didn't pay $2000 for them..Which is what you do when you buy Bose. At every price there are great products - for the price, and horrible/overpriced ones.

Well said. Bose isn't necessarily bad, but you can get a lot better quality for less money. The KEF sub/satellites system is infinitely better and also cheaper.

So I have a hand me down bose system. I do want to eventually change my speakers...but hey not everyone has $1-2k to throw down on some good speakers. But yeah i think what really lacks in my bose speakers is the bass..and i have not one..but two of those damn bass modules (i think my system is some kind of combo of a 3 speaker and 2 speaker set by bose...but hey for some reason it works)..so i was thinking..maybe i just buy an external powered sub and hook it up to my onkyo 605..anyone know how important it is to make sure that external sub matches or not?
~G

You don't need to spend $1-2k to get better sound than Bose. An investment of a few hundred bucks can outperform Bose. ;)

I just tried looking down my nose and after 15 minutes it gave me a migraine. You guys are such bastards with your tricks.

You outlasted me by about 10 min. :o

Why not Bose? Because I fear they doth sucketh. (In best Daffy Duck voice.)

Well said. Bose isn't necessarily bad, but you can get a lot better quality for less money. The KEF sub/satellites system is infinitely better and also cheaper.


And you can also spend alot more than Bose costs and get a worse speaker. Some of you guys act as though Bose is the only company that gives bad value for the money. Look at so called "high end" speaker companies that put a couple of Madisound catalog drivers in a monkey-coffin and charge several thousand dollars for the result. And you're complaining about Bose?

And you can also spend alot more than Bose costs and get a worse speaker.

I can't recall having ever heard any speakers worse than Bose, except maybe in a boombox or no-name HTiB.

And you can also spend alot more than Bose costs and get a worse speaker. Some of you guys act as though Bose is the only company that gives bad value for the money. Look at so called "high end" speaker companies that put a couple of Madisound catalog drivers in a monkey-coffin and charge several thousand dollars for the result. And you're complaining about Bose?

But the Madisound Drivers are better than the Bose drivers. LOL :rolleyes:

All other speakers are significantly better than Bose.:rolleyes:

And you know this how? go back to listening to your Deaf tech speakers and boast about those. :rolleyes:

And you know this how?

By listening to the noise that passes for "music" coming from Blose speakers. They are a crime against sound.

I can't recall having ever heard any speakers worse than Bose, except maybe in a boombox or no-name HTiB.



Oh I most certainly have. I've heard several expensive speakers with tonality problems that made them sound like Skilsaws. But a Bose never drove me from the room, their tonality isn't bad at all, at least not in a way that bothers me.

I gotta think that if you never heard speakers that were more obnoxious than Bose you lack experience in this hobby. Or you're just saying things for effect. Which is OK, I do that too, but if called on it I'll come clean.

[QUOTE=Raymond Leggs;12515477]But the Madisound Drivers are better than the Bose drivers. LOL :rolleyes:


Indeed. Which can have the paradoxical effect of worse sound than ever if they're misused. ;)

Regards

Oh I most certainly have. I've heard several expensive speakers with tonality problems that made them sound like Skilsaws. But a Bose never drove me from the room, their tonality isn't bad at all, at least not in a way that bothers me.

I gotta think that if you never heard speakers that were more obnoxious than Bose you lack experience in this hobby. Or you're just saying things for effect. Which is OK, I do that too, but if called on it I'll come clean.

He says things for affect, and I've learned not to take him seriously. He must have been stuffed into a lot of lockers with his underwear wedged up his a$$ as a kid or something....

However, I agree with him on the Bose speakers to some extent, however I will admit there are going to be exceptions to the rule. I can safely say that I've never heard a Polk, Definitive, Klipsch, Energy, Martin Logan, Paradigm, SVS, JBL, among others that I can't think of right now, that sounds worse than the best Bose has to offer. For under $1,000 I can put together multiple systems which have all the features of the best Bose system and sound A LOT better. I did just this for my grandparents awhile back using JBL speakers and a cheap Onkyo receiver, my sister using a cheap Denon receiver and polk speakers, and a friend using Klipsch speakers and a Onkyo receiver. All were considering Bose, all walked away spending a lot less and saying that their system sounds a lot better. Two of those people returned their Bose systems, and one wised up before the purchase.

That's my real-time examples, however I realize there will be exceptions to this rule.

He says things for affect, and I've learned not to take him seriously. He must have been stuffed into a lot of lockers with his underwear wedged up his a$$ as a kid or something....

However, I agree with him on the Bose speakers to some extent, however I will admit there are going to be exceptions to the rule. I can safely say that I've never heard a Polk, Definitive, Klipsch, Energy, Martin Logan, Paradigm, SVS, JBL, among others that I can't think of right now, that sounds worse than the best Bose has to offer. For under $1,000 I can put together multiple systems which have all the features of the best Bose system and sound A LOT better. I did just this for my grandparents awhile back using JBL speakers and a cheap Onkyo receiver, my sister using a cheap Denon receiver and polk speakers, and a friend using Klipsch speakers and a Onkyo receiver. All were considering Bose, all walked away spending a lot less and saying that their system sounds a lot better. Two of those people returned their Bose systems, and one wised up before the purchase.

That's my real-time examples, however I realize there will be exceptions to this rule.

Your right about that dude I think you just said what I was going to say about Pulliam and Bose.. :cool:

I've read of a couple of Bose nuts on various places saying that Bose does "research" and that Bose are simple, all-in-one products.

Well, here's a funny anecdote.

I've used Bose before and I have done a comparison to them with an old Onkyo TX-82 receiver and a pair of cheap KLH 900B bookshelf speakers. KLH! To be fair, though, the 900B is actually quite decent and unbelievable for the money considering that lots of other KLH offerings are terrible beyond the original KLH stuff, but I digress. I used KLH when I could've used a better bookshelf but that would diminish the impact at the end...

The Onkyo is easy to setup: just hook up a source, such as a CD player, by color-matching the plugs on the source and then taking the other side of the cable and hooking it up to the appropriate input on the receiver and match the colors of the plugs to the sockets. CD player to "CD input" and match the red and white connectors. Easy!

Then, you hook up the speakers, left to left and right to right, being sure to match the colors on the connections, just like you would on a Bose. Easy!

Hooking up components is far easier than Bose would like you to believe. As for more elaborate setups beyond basic stereo, such as digital surround, it's a matter of breaking the whole process down and concentrating on one thing at a time. It's very much akin to eating turkey: you have to carve it first instead of trying to eat the whole bird. EASY!

ANYWAYS: Sound quality comparison was no contest: the old Onkyo and the cheap bookshelfs SLAUGHTERED the Bose and for a system that wasn't complicated to setup and consisted of nothing more than any old CD player, a receiver I bought from a flea market for $35 and a pair of speakers that could've been had for $40 when sold brand new.

And Bose expects ME to pay $1,000+ for their "research" when I can do MUCH better for a little over $100? No, thank you.

They ought to hawk their wares from the back of white vans. - Reinhart

sumptin tells me dat bose will never be a sponsor 'o' dis site.:eek::D

Hooking up components is far easier than Bose would like you to believe. As for more elaborate setups beyond basic stereo, such as digital surround, it's a matter of breaking the whole process down and concentrating on one thing at a time. EASY!


Thank you, that has been bugging me too for the longest time.

Maybe some of you older fellas remember the Martin-Logan CLS, a full range electrostat with excellent clarity and definition but a bass-shy, midrange prominent tonal balance that made it sound like a fork scratching on a china plate.

Almost as bad as a Klipsch LaScala but not able to play as loud, thank God.

My opinions ya understand.

Thank you, that has been bugging me too for the longest time.

Tell me about it. I see those commercials and I'm, like, JEEZ! They look nice, but, as any other person who's listened to Bose as well as everything else, I'd settle for something that looks "ugly" or "takes up space" for good sound. After all, good sound is about what you can hear, not see.

My Sony ES components beats Bose like Bruce Lee did to a roomful of karate students.

I was also at a Target where the 3-2-1 had a both for demonstration.

I tried it out and it was kind of cool how sound was directional from behind as well as in front with just two speakers, but I noted that the sound was lacking detail in the highs and in the lows, so it told me beyond any doubt that it was Bose. ... Seriously!

I mean, if I had it for free, I could use it for movies but I'd never be able to stand it for music. As for the price, I might as well buy used components and just enjoy stereo with halfway decent execution. - Reinhart

Almost as bad as a Klipsch LaScala but not able to play as loud, thank God.

My opinions ya understand.


And if you think LaScala's are bad sounding speakers, then I'd say your opinions are not worth much.....

There are few speakers that actually sound worse than Bose speakers.....

Kenwood speakers, cheap Onkyo speakers, Infinity Primus speakers, cheap Celestions..... and that's all.

IMO Bose speakers are not intended to the average "audiophile" customer. If you want good quality sound, look somewhere else because Bose speakers are not what you're looking for. ;)

There are few speakers that actually sound worse than Bose speakers.....

Kenwood speakers, cheap Onkyo speakers, Infinity Primus speakers, cheap Celestions..... and that's all.


I agree with Kenwood and Onkyo if you are referring to their cheap HTiBs. Primus speakers sound vastly better than Bose, and are great for the price. I haven't heard Celestion, but they have an excellent reputation.

Hi Pulliam,

Yes, I'm referring to the speakers included in cheap HTIBs. :)

I'm quite sure about the Infinity Primus series. I personally own a pair of Primus 150 and sound extremely bright. Bose 901 speakers sound definitely better than Primus 150. ;)

I've listened to cheap Celestions and Bose 901s sound better as well..... :eek:

One 'good' Bose product was their theatrical system, that used the Acoustic Cannon... While it couldn't compete with other systems like THX theatrical or HPS-4000 or AMC-HITS (when AMC used it), the Bose system was a good, low-cost upgrade for mono theater owners who didn't want to spend any money. Sadly though, Bose didn't seem to push it much and I think they got something like 5 installations, total. At the time they were promoting the Bose theater system, in the late 80's/early 90's, equipping a theater for stereo surround reproduction was much higher in cost than what the Bose system cost, so, if it 'had' been a success, many dollar and other low-rent type theaters could have had much better sound than they were giving patrons.

I have a pair of prototype AM-5's (the original Acoustimass design). They sound VERY, VERY different than the final product - actually quite good - the defunct magazine "High Fidelity" reviewed the prototype system and actually gave it a good review - while commenting on the big-bass suck-out around 200 Hz - the final AM-5 product on the market sounded nothing like the prototypes, and the later Acoustamass models have only gotten worse - I currently use them as my 'center back' speakers in my bedroom home theater where they work quite nicely. One interesting thing about the prototype is the top cube is attached to the bottom via a big phono plug and rotate 360. With a long cord, the tob and bottom cubes can be seperated. I had the crossover in the Acoustmass unit completely replaced in mine with one that had better parts, etc... made a nice difference.

I ended up with the AM-5's not because I wanted them but because I had been hospitalized due to a car accident and my dad wanted to suprise me with some nice gift when I got out of the hospital - he'd been hearing about Bose's new Acoustamass via talk radio, recalled seeing a copy of Stereo Review with them on the cover laying around the house, and thought it must be best-of-the-best, you know? I never had the heart to tell him because it really was the thought that counted. Anyway, somehow, the speakers in the box were prototypes, complete with little labels that said just that on them - and of course, the cubes separated. When I could walk again and went to West Coast Sound (where he bought them in Albuquerque) to 'hear' the non-prototype models, I was shocked to discover how different they were in design and sound quality. Bose COULD have had a good product if the prototypes are any indication, but obviously, that would have been the non-Bose thing for them to do.

I'm quite sure about the Infinity Primus series. I personally own a pair of Primus 150 and sound extremely bright. Bose 901 speakers sound definitely better than Primus 150.


I am equally sure that you are wrong. I have owned both the Primus 150s and 250s. Both are great for the money (and not at all bright compared to Klipsch RB61s.) By comparison, the 901s sound more like the $50 Insignias.

And if you think LaScala's are bad sounding speakers, then I'd say your opinions are not worth much.....


Actually I'm pretty experienced with them having owned a couple of sets of them going back over 30 years. They were perfect for blasting Mountain, UFO and The Ramones at 120db with the clipping lamps on my Dynaco 400 flashing away.

However as time went on I became more and more aware of the speaker's shortcomings----poor bass response, a peaky and overly directional upper midrange and an overall poor tonality and "earwire" effect. I moved on to better horn speakers than Klipsch; various EVs, JBLs and Altecs, tried Maggies too among other things.

Okay how about this..the Bose Noise Comfort Noise Cancelling Headphones. They even have great reviews on cnet.com which I believe to be a very unbias site. I've used them..they work..maybe only a little better than other similar headphones they are about 1/3 pricier than a similar set (compared to sony's top of line)..but they are more easily packable..and a ton more comfortable.
~G

I heard if you change the wires in the bose system out with Monster Cable there is a vast improvement in sound quality...:rolleyes:

I didn't read all this but wanted to throw something out there.

Years ago I sold electronics at Sears. The commision on Bose products was 12%, which was more than any other brand. Selling a $2500 Bose system got me $300.

I heard if you change the wires in the bose system out with Monster Cable there is a vast improvement in sound quality...:rolleyes:


Bose speakers are so revealing that they must be used with first rate sources and associated electronics, otherwise you're just going to hear the trash upstream with greater clarity.

Bose sounds best with high quality tube amps, SETs especially, and vinyl playback systems; VPI record players and MC cartridges for instance.

Bose speakers are so revealing that they must be used with first rate sources and associated electronics, otherwise you're just going to hear the trash upstream with greater clarity.

Bose sounds best with high quality tube amps, SETs especially, and vinyl playback systems; VPI record players and MC cartridges for instance.

B. S.

B. S.

it's called sarcasm

B. S.

That stands for "Bose Speakers", correct?:cool:

I heard if you change the wires in the bose system out with Monster Cable there is a vast improvement in sound quality...:rolleyes:

But that won't change the high THD. :rolleyes:

Okay how about this..the Bose Noise Comfort Noise Cancelling Headphones. They even have great reviews on cnet.com which I believe to be a very unbias site. I've used them..they work..maybe only a little better than other similar headphones they are about 1/3 pricier than a similar set (compared to sony's top of line)..but they are more easily packable..and a ton more comfortable.
~G

How about this...nobody cares about Bose. Its overpriced junk. Get over it.
Whether or not you or someone thinks it sounds good, great, super, does not matter. Bose is the laughing stock of the audio industry. Yeah, there are other snake oil companies out there but Bose is just the best at it. The Audio community voted and Bose lost.

Also, I am tired of seeing the same old comment made that "Bose is not for the audiophile" or "Bose is not audiophile gear" Lets stop with that crap ok?

You dont need to be an audiophile to be able to tell the difference between garbage and something good or priced proportionally to performance. Bose does not get a free pass because most people are not "audiophiles." The point of this site is to inform people and help them get the best bang for their buck. Bose just so happens to be a bad price/performance combo.

Its such utter low quality I don't know how anyone could defend them. Especially people that post on a AV forum.

That was a theraputic cleansing for many of us here, Bruins29.

Well said.

Especially this:

Its such utter low quality I don't know how anyone could defend them. Especially people that post on a AV forum.

How about this...nobody cares about Bose. Its overpriced junk. Get over it.
Whether or not you or someone thinks it sounds good, great, super, does not matter. Bose is the laughing stock of the audio industry. Yeah, there are other snake oil companies out there but Bose is just the best at it. The Audio community voted and Bose lost.

Also, I am tired of seeing the same old comment made that "Bose is not for the audiophile" or "Bose is not audiophile gear" Lets stop with that crap ok?

You dont need to be an audiophile to be able to tell the difference between garbage and something good or priced proportionally to performance. Bose does not get a free pass because most people are not "audiophiles." The point of this site is to inform people and help them get the best bang for their buck. Bose just so happens to be a bad price/performance combo.

Its such utter low quality I don't know how anyone could defend them. Especially people that post on a AV forum.


Ahhh, the old argument by assertion combined with the argumentum ad hominem and petitio principii, begging the question. Not exactly Jesuitical but it worked for Goebbels, right?

Sure did!

Bose Are The Best Speakers Regardless Of Price Or Size.Whats Wrong With You Audiophiles.

Is that the name of a book or are all of yours words just so important that you must capitalize them.

The point of this site is to inform people and help them get the best bang for their buck.



So that's what you think this site's only perpose is? I guess we should be all banned for not only doing that. :rolleyes:

Or maybe your just being a jerk? :rolleyes: I guess we need another one because your acting like Pulliam. :rolleyes:

Is that the name of a book or are all of yours words just so important that you must capitalize them.

No, it's just he's satisfying his ego and not his Id' . :rolleyes:

How about this...nobody cares about Bose. Its overpriced junk. Get over it.
Whether or not you or someone thinks it sounds good, great, super, does not matter. Bose is the laughing stock of the audio industry. Yeah, there are other snake oil companies out there but Bose is just the best at it. The Audio community voted and Bose lost.

Also, I am tired of seeing the same old comment made that "Bose is not for the audiophile" or "Bose is not audiophile gear" Lets stop with that crap ok?

You dont need to be an audiophile to be able to tell the difference between garbage and something good or priced proportionally to performance. Bose does not get a free pass because most people are not "audiophiles." The point of this site is to inform people and help them get the best bang for their buck. Bose just so happens to be a bad price/performance combo.

Its such utter low quality I don't know how anyone could defend them. Especially people that post on a AV forum.

Mind saying what kind of speakers you use?

Mind saying what kind of speakers you use?

He owns a bose but he's afraid to admit it lol. :rolleyes:

Russ, I use Def Tech.

Russ, I use Def Tech.

Ahh, well you're an expert on bad speakers. I must step aside and bow to your expertise.

You people are going to force me to dig out my old 301's out of the basement and hear if they are as bad as everyone says.

Okay how about this..the Bose Noise Comfort Noise Cancelling Headphones. They even have great reviews on cnet.com which I believe to be a very unbias site. I've used them..they work..maybe only a little better than other similar headphones they are about 1/3 pricier than a similar set (compared to sony's top of line)..but they are more easily packable..and a ton more comfortable.
~G

Well, if I wanted noise-canceling cans, I'd get a pair of Sennheiser.

Otherwise, a pair of Sony MDR-7506 would be great. - Reinhart

My Camry has these big ole' 5.25 inch Bose car speakers that some teenager put in there hooked up to a JVC head unit ... MAN those Bose sound good! They give music this real classic sound, like your listening to an excellent mahagony stereophonic console ...


http://www.museum.state.il.us/exhibits/athome/1950/objects/largejpgs/stereo.jpg


I have far better speakers in the other cars ... but the Bose are nice in their own way ...

I also think that Bose QC2 are pretty good. I bought them and use them while I traveled from L.A. to Miami and back. Sound wise they were good, I just tried them with the entertainment system of the plane though, but one thing I can tell you, they were very comfortable, even forgot I had them on while I used its noise-canceling feature only (no music listening), even though with a pair of earplugs I would have gotten the same result, a lot cheaper. I ended up returning them, no questions asked.

It is interesting to me that Bose stuff sounds as "okay" as it does consideriing that incredibly cheap drivers, components and thin plastic cabinets they use.

They spend a huge amount on marketing. They don't get reviewed much because the mags don't want to lose their advertising dollars over a truthful bad review.

The price/performance ratio is truly bad with Bose products.
But the other companies that have copied the Wave radio, etc. have similiar high prices.

I can think of at least 10 companies that offer better solutions, better sound, better quality for less money. One of them is the Mirage Nanosat system on sale at Crutchfield for $599 w/ 5 sats and a 8" sub. There are countless others.

I just heard a Bose commercial last night and I thought of you guys.

One of the quotes was-

"The Bose speakers sounded much better than my television speakers!"

That's great. I know those tv speakers are usually very good and all....

Anyways, nothing more to add, just thought I'd throw that in to the fire.

Okay how about this..the Bose Noise Comfort Noise Cancelling Headphones.

I made the mistake of trying a pair of their Triports once. They cost $150, and I have heard better sounding headphones for $20. Apparently their crap quality+high price is not limited to speakers.

The price/performance ratio is truly bad with Bose products.
But the other companies that have copied the Wave radio, etc. have similiar high prices.
.

My house has a TEAC GR-10i in every bedroom, with an IPOD.
It sounds every bit as good as a Wave Radio, and has a jack for an external house antenna.

you can find them for around 45-65 bucks...

http://images.overstock.com/f/102/3117/8h/www.overstock.com/images/products/P10307130.jpg

>>They don't get reviewed much because the mags don't want to lose their advertising dollars over a truthful bad review.<<

Also, they don't want to get sued, and Bose sues - they sued Consumer Reports back in the day - what magazine wants to deal with that?

>>They don't get reviewed much because the mags don't want to lose their advertising dollars over a truthful bad review.<<

Also, they don't want to get sued, and Bose sues - they sued Consumer Reports back in the day - what magazine wants to deal with that?

That's true.

But, it's also true that Bose lost that lawsuit. - Reinhart

That's true.

But, it's also true that Bose lost that lawsuit. - Reinhart

And we should all be thankful for that. Think about the precedent it would have set if they had won.:eek:

"In 1981 the Bose Corporation sued Consumer Reports (CR) magazine for libel. CR reported in a review that the sound from the system that they reviewed "tended to wander about the room". The District Court found that CR "had published the false statement with knowledge that it was false or with reckless disregard of its truth or falsity". The Court of Appeals reversed the trial court's ruling, and the United States Supreme Court affirmed in Bose Corp. v. Consumers Union of United States, Inc., finding that CR's statement was made without actual malice, which was the standard in cases where the First Amendment was involved; and therefore was not libelous."

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_Reports)

You people are going to force me to dig out my old 301's out of the basement and hear if they are as bad as everyone says.

I might buy a pair of the old Bose 301's there is a pair at a local pawn shop and the guy can give me a deal on them too. :D

You people are going to force me to dig out my old 301's out of the basement and hear if they are as bad as everyone says.

Damn it! Me too now. (Mine were loaned to me years ago) I'm going now..will reply a result.

Originally Posted by Thirsty
You people are going to force me to dig out my old 301's out of the basement and hear if they are as bad as everyone says.

Damn it! Me too now. (Mine were loaned to me years ago) I'm going now..will reply a result

NEWS BULLITEN: It is official, I will never take those speakers out of storage again unless its to give them to someone for free. Turns out they are actually the 201's, but the consensus is that they have zero high frequency capability. The tweeter is some kind of mini mid range woofer that sounds like a mini mid range woofer trying to play some cymbols and hi-hats....yes awfully. And the soundstage they produce is very small and confusing because they have all these reflective surfaces (and the intent to reflect by the very name direct reflecting) Which does not provide surround sound or even help the soundstage, but rather just throws sound around like when it arrives or how it sounds by the time it gets there it just sound bad. And now that I think about it when I bought a $100 pair of yamahas from BB I actually relegated the Bose to surrounds (until I could afford something real) But I do thank the person who gave them to me for free because it got me started.

summary:
No high's
bass was airy
soundstage was minor and confusing
overall sound quality is poor - lacking in detail with voices and cymbols and gritty quality.

Hey kind of like the CR report CR reported in a review that the sound from the system that they reviewed "tended to wander about the room".

That is exactly how I would describe it.

This thread should be ranamed to "why Bose?"

But it's easy to talk about why not bose.

NEWS BULLITEN: It is official, I will never take those speakers out of storage again unless its to give them to someone for free. Turns out they are actually the 201's, but the consensus is that they have zero high frequency capability. The tweeter is some kind of mini mid range woofer that sounds like a mini mid range woofer trying to play some cymbols and hi-hats....yes awfully. And the soundstage they produce is very small and confusing because they have all these reflective surfaces (and the intent to reflect by the very name direct reflecting) Which does not provide surround sound or even help the soundstage, but rather just throws sound around like when it arrives or how it sounds by the time it gets there it just sound bad. And now that I think about it when I bought a $100 pair of yamahas from BB I actually relegated the Bose to surrounds (until I could afford something real) But I do thank the person who gave them to me for free because it got me started.

summary:
No high's
bass was airy
soundstage was minor and confusing
overall sound quality is poor - lacking in detail with voices and cymbols and gritty quality.

B.S.....you just made this up. You've been reading too many posts from Bose haters here:rolleyes:

sure I take my cues from other comparison posts, how many ways are there to describe how a speaker sounds in words to people youv'e never met...its just lingo...I actually hooked them up for a quick listen.

I haven't tried my 301's yet but I will. I am actually giving them to my 11 yr old boy as part of a xbox 360 gaming system for his bedroom. I hope he wont hate me later for it :)

B.S.....you just made this up. You've been reading too many posts from Bose haters here:rolleyes:

No, he did not make it up. His description agrees completely with my experience of the 301s.

I haven't tried my 301's yet but I will. I am actually giving them to my 11 yr old boy as part of a xbox 360 gaming system for his bedroom. I hope he wont hate me later for it :)

There are speakers by Sony and Pioneer, sometimes available for less than $30/pr at the big box stores, that would sound better.

No, he did not make it up. His description agrees completely with my experience of the 301s.

Pulliam: no disrespect, honestly, but I've never taken your opinion seriously 'cause is so biased when it comes to Bose products. I've had experience with their products for more than 15 years, and even though I agree they might be overpriced, and that there are a whole bunch of better options out there, they're are not as bad as you picture them to be IMO.

Pulliam: no disrespect, honestly, but I've never taken your opinion seriously 'cause is so biased when it comes to Bose products.

That is unfortunate for you, since I am right.

No doubt, I would have been dissapointed in whatever I paid for those speakers. I have known better tweeters since 1992 with my kenwood 6x9 3-ways that I had in my car. It is too bad that I had fallen for the hype before I really did my own research.

hi guys,

I am a newbie, but starting my HT system with a Denon 2808CI system (don't think I have a lot of $$) but spent way to much on the main receiver and have less cash for the speakers...

I am roughly looking for a Bose Acoustimass 10 performance equivalent at a lower cost.

My use is mostly listening to 5.1 sound from Movies and classical music. I am not into loud heavy metal and noisy music, instead I want the system to sound better at a low volume and with minimal distortion and hear a fuller sound.

I know I can spend close to the cost of the bose system and get a very good system, but I am only looking for bose +/- 10% performance.

Do you have any recommendations...

Any specific numbers I should look for in the specs for the system I may eventually decide to buy ?

I already have some old Polk RM1300 speakers, which function, and I am planning to use for one of the zone 2 and 3

Ghat

A few coworkers have jumped onto the BOSE bandwagon. A few have made the decision to go a different direction after talking to them. All I can do is smile and say if you are happy with your system..."Awesome stereo."

One coworker paid the installation fee from BB to install a 321 system... my goodness! 200 or something like that. She is not at all tech savvy. She said it took them about 1 1/2 hours for TV and stereo hookup. I am kind to her so I bit my tongue and said now you got the sound to match that new big lcd tv.. awesome stereo.
Another coworker said he wanted to treat himself to something special so he got one of those lifestyle systems. He made the remark" Wow.. I was watching this movie and it sounded like the guy was talking right behind me.. got me scared." For him I was a little more critical. I responded "If the guy is talking right in your face, how could it sound lifelike if you hear his voice behind you?" He looked perplexed after that comment.:confused:

"If the guy is talking right in your face, how could it sound lifelike if you hear his voice behind you?" He looked perplexed after that comment

Hilarious!

One coworker paid the installation fee from BB to install a 321 system

That sounds like a joke I once heard...His momma is so stupid..(how stupid is she?)...she's so stupid she paid for installation of a 321 system. ha ha, no offense of course, I couldn't help it.

I am roughly looking for a Bose Acoustimass 10 performance equivalent at a lower cost.


KEF KHT series?

No, he did not make it up. His description agrees completely with my experience of the 301s.

Hate to say it and risk being banned but honestly you, being (or) are a Jerk and Your comments seem to exibit little or know knowlege as to what you are talking about.

Pulliam: no disrespect, honestly, but I've never taken your opinion seriously 'cause is so biased when it comes to Bose products. I've had experience with their products for more than 15 years, and even though I agree they might be overpriced, and that there are a whole bunch of better options out there, they're are not as bad as you picture them to be IMO.

I agree with you I bet PULLIAM hasn't even heard a bose for more than the 60 second demo at best buy. :rolleyes:

That is unfortunate for you, since I am right.


I guess that the attitude that your "audiphile quality" "deaf tech" speakers are superior to the Bose in every way. I hate to say it but judging from what I saw in a previous thread that was in reply to yours,they don't sound too much different than the Bose you are trashing so Unfortunately you are wrong. :mad: :rolleyes:

Same people here since the beginning arguing.

And all over Bose? Really?

Same people here since the beginning arguing.

And all over Bose? Really?

not it's just the attitude of certain members that we are arguing about. :o
This forum is an embarrassment. :o:mad::(

I agree with you I bet PULLIAM hasn't even heard a bose for more than the 60 second demo at best buy. :rolleyes:


Given that that is sufficient time to establish that they sound like absolute crap, why would anyone need or want a longer audition?:confused:

judging from what I saw in a previous thread that was in reply to yours,they don't sound too much different than the Bose you are trashing so Unfortunately you are wrong. :mad: :rolleyes:

You are judging Definitives based on what you read in another thread, rather than having ever heard them yourself? No wonder you have no idea what they actually sound like.:rolleyes:

Given that that is sufficient time to establish that they sound like absolute crap, why would anyone need or want a longer audition?:confused:
Right.

I just walked by their stand at BB. Sure took a lot of money to get it up front by itself....in quite a very nice layout...anythought on how a company that spends that much on advertising might put any money towards the product. No is the answer, they are an advertising company that sells speakers.

People are going "oh man is that the bose system" And I said "are you serious, that bass module is as big as a tissue box. how good do you really think it is in reality? Like compared to my Klipsch computer speakers they sell a few aisles away for $99

Oh and please, the demo they play is solidly in the frequency ranges that are capable on a little system. They don't play stressing samples, trust me.

hi guys,

I am a newbie, but starting my HT system with a Denon 2808CI system (don't think I have a lot of $$) but spent way to much on the main receiver and have less cash for the speakers...

I am roughly looking for a Bose Acoustimass 10 performance equivalent at a lower cost.

My use is mostly listening to 5.1 sound from Movies and classical music. I am not into loud heavy metal and noisy music, instead I want the system to sound better at a low volume and with minimal distortion and hear a fuller sound.

I know I can spend close to the cost of the bose system and get a very good system, but I am only looking for bose +/- 10% performance.

Do you have any recommendations...

Any specific numbers I should look for in the specs for the system I may eventually decide to buy ?

I already have some old Polk RM1300 speakers, which function, and I am planning to use for one of the zone 2 and 3

Ghat

Two words: CAMBRIDGE SOUNDWORKS. - Reinhart

Given that that is sufficient time to establish that they sound like absolute crap, why would anyone need or want a longer audition?:confused:

Exactly.

If Bose couldn't get the sound right in a favorable, ideal setting where Bose performance would be largely exaggerated, then what makes anyone think they can do better when they actually buy and install the things in their home?

And, even though I despite satellites, there are still better and more economical executions of the concept, as exemplified by products from Cambridge Soundworks. - Reinhart

You hear it all the time from the car guys... "There is no replacement for displacement..."

I laugh so hard when I think about it… think about that Maxell audio tape commercial or their picture logo with the guy sitting in the cough and getting blown away by the speakers. Now think of that with a Bose speaker in front of him.

I love going to the Bose store and picking the brains of the poor guys/gals who work at the retail shops. 1. They don’t know jack, 2 the product isn’t the greatest and isn’t represented by folk who really know speakers (like the people in the forums).

I always say…. “You can REALLY FEEL the sound.” I just get a smile on my face when they agree…

I don’t care much for their speakers, or marketing. I just shop like a well informed consumer… some don’t. The Bose stores are doing something right… the most expensive HTIB with expensive name recognition. Just like monster cable.

By the way… I placed my first monoprice.com order and THANK YOU MONOPRICE. Best service, awesome prices and product.

Ok… ive been drinking a lot tonight. Good night, and happy holidays.

Two words: CAMBRIDGE SOUNDWORKS. - Reinhart

Thats a good suggestion, you can also add Definitive Audio and Mirage Nanosats (available at Magnolia section in Best buy) to the list.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8206201&type=product&id=1177718655876

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8318162&type=product&id=1181832387509

I've been following these anti-Bose threads for a long time, throwing in a comment here and there about some of their vintage, larger true bookshelf speakers, of which I have heard a few. Most of the hate here is about the cube speakers, which I had no experience with and thought the insults here may be a bit overstated. But I was at Best Buy the other day and stood in front of their new Lifestyle 5.1 system.

I was horrified. In those few square feet of the demo setup, it sounded ok on the movie demo, then I moved my head about 6 inches to either side. The center channel turned into a muddy mess with the sound quality of a clock radio! I was shocked to say the least.

But I was at Best Buy the other day and stood in front of their new Lifestyle 5.1 system.

I was horrified. In those few square feet of the demo setup, it sounded ok on the movie demo, then I moved my head about 6 inches to either side. The center channel turned into a muddy mess with the sound quality of a clock radio! I was shocked to say the least.

:D

Thats a good suggestion, you can also add Definitive Audio and Mirage Nanosats (available at Magnolia section in Best buy) to the list.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8206201&type=product&id=1177718655876

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8318162&type=product&id=1181832387509

I look at any speaker that has a mid and a real tweeter to be better than bose. The definitive speakers Im sure are better without even listening to them.

here is the description on Bose's "flagship" 5.1 system that cost $3,999

2" wide-range drivers

wide range huh? what exactly does the wide-range cover? with a 2" driver.

hi guys,

I am a newbie, but starting my HT system with a Denon 2808CI system (don't think I have a lot of $$) but spent way to much on the main receiver and have less cash for the speakers...

I am roughly looking for a Bose Acoustimass 10 performance equivalent at a lower cost.

My use is mostly listening to 5.1 sound from Movies and classical music. I am not into loud heavy metal and noisy music, instead I want the system to sound better at a low volume and with minimal distortion and hear a fuller sound.

I know I can spend close to the cost of the bose system and get a very good system, but I am only looking for bose +/- 10% performance.

Do you have any recommendations...

Any specific numbers I should look for in the specs for the system I may eventually decide to buy ?

I already have some old Polk RM1300 speakers, which function, and I am planning to use for one of the zone 2 and 3

Ghat

Are you looking for strictly 5.1? Or are you okay with a good 2-channel setup? I would highly recommend getting yourself a Panasonic SA-XR55 or SA-XR57 (obtainable for around $200 including shipping). Then I would recommend browsing through the x-speakers. http://www.**********/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=55

Excellent budget speakers! If you have to battle with space, then I would second the Cambridge.

Are you looking for strictly 5.1? Or are you okay with a good 2-channel setup? I would highly recommend getting yourself a Panasonic SA-XR55 or SA-XR57 (obtainable for around $200 including shipping). Then I would recommend browsing through the x-speakers. http://www.**********/products_catego...akers&brand=55

Excellent budget speakers! If you have to battle with space, then I would second the Cambridge.


Thanks, but I already have a Denon 2808 receiver, I am looking for value for money speakers equivalent to Bose Acoustimass 16. ($1K)

Some of the recomendations given by fellow forum members are expensive...
KEF-KHT ? $1.5K
http://www.radiient.com/: Stopped shipping speakers...
M&K THX750: $2K

How are the Boston Acoustics MCS 130 compared to Acoustimass 16 at $720 or so ?

Ghat

Thanks, but I already have a Denon 2808 receiver, I am looking for value for money speakers equivalent to Bose Acoustimass 16. ($1K)

Some of the recomendations given by fellow forum members are expensive...
KEF-KHT ? $1.5K
http://www.radiient.com/: Stopped shipping speakers...
M&K THX750: $2K

How are the Boston Acoustics MCS 130 compared to Acoustimass 16 at $720 or so ?

Ghat


A 5.1 set of the X-Speakers is within that budget... You will have a hard time beating them at that price.

I've been following these anti-Bose threads for a long time, throwing in a comment here and there about some of their vintage, larger true bookshelf speakers, of which I have heard a few. Most of the hate here is about the cube speakers, which I had no experience with and thought the insults here may be a bit overstated. But I was at Best Buy the other day and stood in front of their new Lifestyle 5.1 system.

I was horrified. In those few square feet of the demo setup, it sounded ok on the movie demo, then I moved my head about 6 inches to either side. The center channel turned into a muddy mess with the sound quality of a clock radio! I was shocked to say the least.

You think that the cubes are bad? Try one of the radios that is about the size of a microwave. Man that is true fidelity. No substitute for size.

A 5.1 set of the X-Speakers is within that budget... You will have a hard time beating them at that price.

Where X = ?
If its http://www.rexspeakers.com/ then the boxxer7's are $4.5K and the other system is a 2.1 computer multimedia system.

Where X = ?
If its http://www.rexspeakers.com/ then the boxxer7's are $4.5K and the other system is a 2.1 computer multimedia system.


I guess my link didn't come out properly. Sorry about that. Here it is again.

http://www.**********/products_category_brand.php?section=speakers&brand=55


There are the x-speakers I'm talking about. They are literally called the Onix X-series

Hi Pulliam,

Yes, I'm referring to the speakers included in cheap HTIBs. :)

I'm quite sure about the Infinity Primus series. I personally own a pair of Primus 150 and sound extremely bright. Bose 901 speakers sound definitely better than Primus 150. ;)

I've listened to cheap Celestions and Bose 901s sound better as well..... :eek:

You know, this is why speakers are truly a matter of opinion. I have Primus 150's for surround (they were free with the purchase of my Alpha's) and I would classify them as being on the bright side. I would not, however, classify them as being poor sounding. As far as I can tell, they sound great for what they were designed for, small good sounding bookshelf speakers. I have not read one negative review about them, other than the fact that they lack a little in the bass department.

Secondly, the 901's are a completely different speaker. They are $1,000 floorstanders, and SHOULD sound better than a bookshelf. Whether or not they do is a matter of opinion. I have heard Bose 901's before, many years ago, and at the time I thought they sounded good. Would I feel the same now? I highly doubt it.

Thirdly, I think I'll keep my Primus. At least I have a genuine 2-way speaker that does not require an external equalizer to make them sound like they don't come equipped with a bunch of small full range drivers that require electric chair like wattage to put out the sound I need. Now I'm not here to bash Bose per se, but when an off base comment like that is made, I had to respond. I realize that you may like Bose better than the Primus speakers you had, but keeping your expectations reasonable and what the products actually are in comparison to one another really is a must.

Now, if you really want a comparison, lets but the Bose 901's up against my Infinity Alpha 50's, or a similar speaker. I'm betting on the Infinity's, and other similar speakers in that price range. I think most here would agree.

Now, if you really want a comparison, lets but the Bose 901's up against my Infinity Alpha 50's, or a similar speaker. I'm betting on the Infinity's, and other similar speakers in that price range. I think most here would agree.

Since the $150 Primuses blow away the $1000 901s, it is a foregone conclusion that even better Infinities will also.

Since the $150 Primuses blow away the $1000 901s, it is a foregone conclusion that even better Infinities will also.

I wouldn't say a modest pair of bookshelf speakers could blow away floorstanders, but knowing that these are two different types of speakers, how they perform in relation to one another, the Primus may very well be better. I can't say for sure that this is the case, I haven't heard 901's in a very long time.

I wouldn't say a modest pair of bookshelf speakers could blow away floorstanders,

Umm... the 901's are bookshelves too (albeit somewhat large ones.):)

Umm... the 901's are bookshelves too (albeit somewhat large ones.):)

Yeah, I guess you could say that. Bookshelfs on a pole is really what they are. Still, I'm not so sure that the Primus speakers could out perform them, perhaps sound better given reasonable comparison, but blow them away, not so sure.

Yeah, I guess you could say that. Bookshelfs on a pole is really what they are. Still, I'm not so sure that the Primus speakers could out perform them, perhaps sound better given reasonable comparison, but blow them away, not so sure.

The 901s take one exceptionally poor quality driver and repeat it, which does not make it sound better (and only accounts for a fraction of the cost, the rest being pure profit.) The Primus 150s are smaller and cheaper because they only use two drivers, but the drivers in question are much better (plus, one is a tweeter which allows them to reach high notes that the Bose cannot.) That they blow the Bose away should really come as no surprise, with these observations in mind. (Oh, and almost all bookshelf speakers should be "on a pole", aka a stand. "Bookshelf" is really a misnomer.)

The 901s take one exceptionally poor quality driver and repeat it, which does not make it sound better (and only accounts for a fraction of the cost, the rest being pure profit.) The Primus 150s are smaller and cheaper because they only use two drivers, but the drivers in question are much better (plus, one is a tweeter which allows them to reach high notes that the Bose cannot.) That they blow the Bose away should really come as no surprise, with these observations in mind. (Oh, and almost all bookshelf speakers should be "on a pole", aka a stand. "Bookshelf" is really a misnomer.)

No, Not amost all bookshelf speakers be placed on a stand. Some do better when they are sitting on the floor. :rolleyes: or at least some of the larger 1970's ones do better at bass and midrange on the floor so you are wrong.

And there are plenty of speakers which do not have tweeters that sound good. back inthe 70's and 8o's there were floorstanding and bookshelf speakers that contained single duo cone drivers and they HAD highs and lows so that statement isnt always valid. :rolleyes:


Her's my thoughts and observations on the BOSE acoustimass
The highs are a bit too sibilant
The dialouge comes from the bass module.
The midrange is a bit lacking and muddy like the Sony MDRV-150 headphones.
the direct replecting technologiy requres a perfect room which no one has.

The bass module doesnt go under 35 Hz But, most All In One HTIB packages don't really put out any real audible sound under that frequency even at that price. :eek:

Yes the BOSE is a Middle of the road Product, but so are so many other similar priced floorstanding speakers from B&O and such. :rolleyes:

I think the BOSE is worth the money if you WANT that system and are willing to spend that kind of money on a mediocre product. :rolleyes:

I said most bookshelves sound best on stands, not all. Citing a few rare exceptions does not contradict this fact.
Decent sound without tweeters may be possible (I remain skeptical), but Bose certainly does not achieve it.
Why would anyone want to spend their money on a mediocre product (actually much worse than mediocre), when they can do vastly better for less?

Decent sound without tweeters may be possible (I remain skeptical), but Bose certainly does not achieve it.
Why would anyone want to spend their money on a mediocre product (actually much worse than mediocre), when they can do vastly better for less?

I also am skeptical, especially since some members have claimed that silk dome tweeters aren't very good (meaning there is better). I never heard a good tweeter until I heard a silk dome tweeter, now Im looking for better. But certainly until you get a real tweeter you can't achieve good highs. Especially when the bose 2 1/2 inch "tweeter" is also the midrange. :eek: (wow)

People want to spend the money because they are afraid to admit that they have been lied to through all those commercials. Its easier to just follow the pack.

A musician I know loves the direct reflecting and how it produces "surround sound". I am trying to explain to him that if a musician wants to have the best performance an echoey room would be the worst, so why would you want your speakers to bounce reflections???? Why does a band room have accoustical absorbtion panels if reflections are good.

Until you hear what "wide soundstage" sounds like from a good stereo pair you'll never know why you don't want reflections. A good speaker produces very good "surround sound" directly from the speaker itself, and very clean.

Until you hear what "wide soundstage" sounds like from a good stereo pair you'll never know why you don't want reflections. A good speaker produces very good "surround sound" directly from the speaker itself, and very clean.

Yes, but most Bose buyers have never heard a really good system, so they don't have a reference point.

It's rather like the guy who has only ever driven family sedans getting into a Mustang GT and being so blown away by the acceleration that he believes the salesman who tells him it is as good as a Porsche/Viper/Z06; it's all in the frame of reference. If he's never driven a real high-performance car, he simply doesn't know any better. Of course, the Mustang doesn't sell for $80K.....

As I mentioned before, there is nothing wrong with the "direct/reflecting" design per se. Mirage and Def Tech use it with great success. The problem with Bose speakers is that they are worthless junk.

As I mentioned before, there is nothing wrong with the "direct/reflecting" design per se. Mirage and Def Tech use it with great success. The problem with Bose speakers is that they are worthless junk.

I'm confused then, what does a direct reflecting speaker design accomplish. Doesn't that create timing issues?

Yes, but most Bose buyers have never heard a really good system, so they don't have a reference point.

It's rather like the guy who has only ever driven family sedans getting into a Mustang GT and being so blown away by the acceleration that he believes the salesman who tells him it is as good as a Porsche/Viper/Z06; it's all in the frame of reference. If he's never driven a real high-performance car, he simply doesn't know any better. Of course, the Mustang doesn't sell for $80K.....

Yes, a sad story indeed. and I don't think most bose buyers have ever heard any system other than their tv speakers.

I'm confused then, what does a direct reflecting speaker design accomplish. Doesn't that create timing issues?

It could create timing issues if the speakers were placed too close to walls. When set up properly, however, the reflected sound is sufficiently delayed and attenuated that the brain perceives it as ambience rather than confusing it with the direct sound. This creates a huge, 3-dimensional soundstage (subjectively much larger than the listening room itself), while imaging remains precisely defined.
If the Bose 901s were copied using good drivers and cabinets, the sound might well be all that they claim for it.

Bose is great for those with rooms that are 2x2 :)

Thanks, but I already have a Denon 2808 receiver, I am looking for value for money speakers equivalent to Bose Acoustimass 16. ($1K)


Ghat

Again, Cambridge Soundworks.

They have equivalent, if not superior, performance to Bose Acoustimass for a significantly lower price.

The following aren't exactly satellites, but they will blow the Acoustimass away for about the same price.

http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category.cgi?category=ht_systems&item=k1pk727zz

- Reinhart

I'm confused then, what does a direct reflecting speaker design accomplish. Doesn't that create timing issues?

You have to ask, yet you are giving a musician and other readers advice.

All speakers reflect, some more than others. Otherwise you would not likely need room accoustic treatments, which BTW can be overdone and make a very dull sound.

Anybody who hasn't heard speakers such as Lowthers, Dia-Tones, Fostexes, TangBands, Jordans, Altec 755s, JBL LE-8s and EV SP-8s has no business saying that a single wide range driver can't make good highs. Having not heard them means your experience is very limited and your opinion of little value.

Now if you HAVE heard those speakers and don't like them fine, I can respect that. But if you haven't maybe you should keep your jibs shut on the subject.

There was a recent thread going over at AK where several fellas actually in the speaker business talked about the good quality of the drivers used in the Bose 901s.

Of course the real reason for these Bose threads is for young fellas inexperienced in this hobby to crow and pretend they have a superior knowledge of the hobby. And the other reason is for old farts like me to slam their callow opinions and show who really has a knowledge of it. ;)

Again, Cambridge Soundworks.

They have equivalent, if not superior, performance to Bose Acoustimass for a significantly lower price.

The following aren't exactly satellites, but they will blow the Acoustimass away for about the same price.

http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/s...item=k1pk727zz

- Reinhart


How about the $699 Cambridge Soundworks Newton Series II MC105 (http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category/ht_systems/k1pk726e/)

would these be better/inferior to the acoustimass 16 ?
I am really looking to spend less not get same/better performance

How about the $799 Boston Acoustics MCS 130 (http://www.bostonacoustics.com/home_product.aspx?category_id=67&product_id=414) I have heard they play well with Denon Systems.

Ghat

Anybody who hasn't heard speakers such as Lowthers, Dia-Tones, Fostexes, TangBands, Jordans, Altec 755s, JBL LE-8s and EV SP-8s has no business saying that a single wide range driver can't make good highs. Having not heard them means your experience is very limited and your opinion of little value.

Now if you HAVE heard those speakers and don't like them fine, I can respect that. But if you haven't maybe you should keep your jibs shut on the subject.

There was a recent thread going over at AK where several fellas actually in the speaker business talked about the good quality of the drivers used in the Bose 901s.
Of course the real reason for these Bose threads is for young fellas inexperienced in this hobby to crow and pretend they have a superior knowledge of the hobby. And the other reason is for old farts like me to slam their callow opinions and show who really has a knowledge of it. ;)

You would either have to be old or work at an audio boutique to hear all of those speakers in which case I would qualify for neither. But I do know how to read and interpret the opinions of those who write them on this forum.

I don't think anyone has actually put down the 901's in any recent comments in this thread. (edit: oops, did just see pulliams comment on the 901's)
I did listen to the 201's which have said tweeter and said tweeer sucks.

You have to ask, yet you are giving a musician and other readers advice.

All speakers reflect, some more than others. Otherwise you would not likely need room accoustic treatments, which BTW can be overdone and make a very dull sound.

I would do anything to save someone from falling for hype as well as anything to continue to debate that what I've learned, if anyone thinks they know it all then they are sadly due to have pie in the face.

I would love to hear an 8" full range speaker that can reproduce a realistic sounding chime all while providing rumbling midrange sweep. Are these sold in stores?

Well if nothing else hanging around the Bose bashing has produced some good research ideas.

I would love to hear an 8" full range speaker that can reproduce a realistic sounding chime all while providing rumbling midrange sweep. Are these sold in stores?

There are several. This being one of them:

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/107fuj/

Naturally they suffer in the lower bass regions. But I would imagine single drivers produce a very quick sound as it faces no degradation through crossovers, and have to worry about timing issues with other drivers in the mix.

You have to ask, yet you are giving a musician and other readers advice.

All speakers reflect, some more than others. Otherwise you would not likely need room accoustic treatments, which BTW can be overdone and make a very dull sound.


Yes, but most properly designed speakers do not reflect. It is the room that causes reflections, and therefore room treatments are applied to diminish the negative effects of this reflection. Naturally, a bit of reflection is desired as live sound isn't completely dead.

Bose on the other hand, is purposely creating a speaker to reflect in order to create a faux surround effect.

God I am SO SICK of these Bose threads.


What's worse is when someone who asks me "what speaker (or headphones) should I get? What do you thik about Bose??" ends up waisting their hard earned cash on Bose after I tell them how much they suck. Bose blows worse than my but-hole so nuff said.

God I am SO SICK of these Bose threads.


What's worse is when someone who asks me "what speaker (or headphones) should I get? What do you thik about Bose??" ends up waisting their hard earned cash on Bose after I tell them how much they suck. Bose blows worse than my but-hole so nuff said.

You can now buy computers that allow you to select only the threads that you desire to read and bypass the ones that disgust you.

There are several. This being one of them:

http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/107fuj/

Naturally they suffer in the lower bass regions. But I would imagine single drivers produce a very quick sound as it faces no degradation through crossovers, and have to worry about timing issues with other drivers in the mix.

83.5 dB sensitivity with only a 35 W power handling? A 5dB dip in response at 650 Hz? 7 dB down at 14k? They had to go +5 and -10 dB to give a reasonable-looking response spec. Look at the measured response graphs - I wouldn't use this speaker as an argument that a single driver can effectively handle a wide range signal.

From the review: "this is not a speaker that will go very loud or very deep, and tonally it is not all that neutral. "

It's an interesting experiment in phase coherence, but even that is undone with the rear-firing port (again, this was noted as a negative in the review).

I also find it interesting that the designer of this speaker discussed his first approach, which was to use an active digital EQ (FIR filter) to correct for the deficiencies of the physical speaker. He stated that it "measured quite well but just didn't sound right". This is the approach that Bose uses (unusual, product-specific crossovers and EQs), and the article you reference is just one more data point showing that this approach yields products that don't sound right.

I would love to hear an 8" full range speaker that can reproduce a realistic sounding chime all while providing rumbling midrange sweep. Are these sold in stores?

Here ya go.


http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=265

Check the pdf for the specs, extended response out to 20khz on axis. Of course of axis response falls off steeply. A couple of my pals have used this driver and it sounds good IMO.

Here's a Fostex I used to use myself. Very nice midrange and highs, this driver works very well in an open baffle augmented with a subwoofer. Most of you guys use subs anyway, just buy a pair of these and mount them in simple plywood baffles about 4'x2'. I think such a rig will sound better than most speakers costing several times the cost, MANY times the cost actually.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_241_307&products_id=282


Here's an example of what can be done with a 2" widerange driver.

http://www.madisound.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45_241_283&products_id=8267


This wide range driver thing is a legit approach. Not perfect nor to everyone's taste. But a good approach and one used by many enthusiasts.

While I'm sure there are speaker manufacturers that can pull off full range sound with one driver, is Bose one of them? The thread seems to have gone from Bose good/bad, to can it be done type of thing. Bose also makes 2-way speakers, are they any good? The questions for me are, is Bose really Junk? Are Bose speakers ok but overpriced? Is there better value for the money?

I've heard the 901's, they sound ok. Are they worth $1000+? No

I've heard the Acoustimass, it sounds ok. Is it worth $2500 for the top of the line system. Absolutely not.

My friend has the Wave Radio, it sounds ok by small radio standards. Is it worth $500+? Not even close.

I've also heard the 201's and the 301's. These speakers don't sound bad by bookshelf standards. Are they worth $200-500 a pair. No.

Most people who buy Bose really feel like they are getting the best, and that's ok. Advertisement and word of mouth is strong, and Bose has this in spades. Bose isn't junk, no common person would hear their products and say it sounds bad....it doesn't. It just sounds poor next to other brands. Bose is overpriced, no question about it, people just need to be educated that there are better and ofter cheaper alternatives. When someone mentions to me that they are considering Bose, I politely point out those facts.

Yes, but most properly designed speakers do not reflect. It is the room that causes reflections, and therefore room treatments are applied to diminish the negative effects of this reflection. Naturally, a bit of reflection is desired as live sound isn't completely dead.

Bose on the other hand, is purposely creating a speaker to reflect in order to create a faux surround effect.

Good point.

Case in point: recording studios. Usually, the rooms are acoustically treated to minimize reflections to allow proper assessment of the audio being recorded; reflections cause unwanted coloration. - Reinhart

How about the $699 Cambridge Soundworks Newton Series II MC105 (http://www.cambridgesoundworks.com/store/category/ht_systems/k1pk726e/)

would these be better/inferior to the acoustimass 16 ?
I am really looking to spend less not get same/better performance

How about the $799 Boston Acoustics MCS 130 (http://www.bostonacoustics.com/home_product.aspx?category_id=67&product_id=414) I have heard they play well with Denon Systems.

Ghat

More than likely, they may also be better.

However, the best way to determine this for yourself is to audition in the environment that the speakers will be used in.

As for Boston Acoustics, they are owned by D&M Holdings (Denon & Marantz), but they are likely to be pretty good as well; you'll just have to try them out.

I do have my opinions on Bose and others, but ultimately, it is your decision so you should really base that on what you think sounds good; all I can do is offer suggestions that you may or may not agree with. That said, anyone can do better than Bose for the money. - Reinhart

Great post and really true. We have a 6.1 Acoustimass system in our finished basement. The main reason we went with Bose downstairs is that it sounded good...not awesome like our system upstairs, but good. We wanted a compact and attractive looking set up in our newly finished multi-purpose room too. Finished in white they blend in and are so small they are barely even noticed.

Good Sound, attractive look and wifey approved...worth every penny.



While I'm sure there are speaker manufacturers that can pull off full range sound with one driver, is Bose one of them? The thread seems to have gone from Bose good/bad, to can it be done type of thing. Bose also makes 2-way speakers, are they any good? The questions for me are, is Bose really Junk? Are Bose speakers ok but overpriced? Is there better value for the money?

I've heard the 901's, they sound ok. Are they worth $1000+? No

I've heard the Acoustimass, it sounds ok. Is it worth $2500 for the top of the line system. Absolutely not.

My friend has the Wave Radio, it sounds ok by small radio standards. Is it worth $500+? Not even close.

I've also heard the 201's and the 301's. These speakers don't sound bad by bookshelf standards. Are they worth $200-500 a pair. No.

Most people who buy Bose really feel like they are getting the best, and that's ok. Advertisement and word of mouth is strong, and Bose has this in spades. Bose isn't junk, no common person would hear their products and say it sounds bad....it doesn't. It just sounds poor next to other brands. Bose is overpriced, no question about it, people just need to be educated that there are better and ofter cheaper alternatives. When someone mentions to me that they are considering Bose, I politely point out those facts.

Yesterday I walked into a Bose factory store and listened to the the Lifestyle 48 while it played Maria Carrie's Fantasy. I'd say the sound is pretty impressive. But for the price tag of 3999 I would expect more.

It's funny, I used to sell Bose when I worked at a stereo store in the 80's, and it was the same back then. Maybe that was when Bose's reputation started heading down the toilet, but I've never known them as anything but overrated. We'd get people coming in all the time asking specifically for Bose... in those days, you could have Bose mixed in with all the other speakers in the listening room and it was rare that anyone would come in asking for Bose and end up actually leaving with a set of Bose speakers. They'd hear other speakers priced lower and would have a hard time denying what they were hearing with their own ears.

That said, I definitely don't think Bose are terrible sounding speakers. I just think they're overpriced. Some people go way overboard in criticizing them, but there are a lot of worse speakers out there. I've heard Acoustimass systems in people's homes that actually sounded pretty good. Better than the $200 Infinity TSS-450 system I just bought? Probably not. I paid what my system is worth, though: $200. That's what most AM systems are worth too.

Their problem is their marketing. They're not the best, and their "research" these days is no better than anybody else's. So why do they think they can get away with charging such a premium? If they cut all their prices in half (or even more) and quit running these dumb infomercials, I guarantee most of the criticism would go away. Of course, Bose would probably argue that half their profits would go away too, and maybe they're right in that.

VinnieR

You are a very funny man. That was hilarious. You made my day. That cracked me up!

I would love to hear an 8" full range speaker that can reproduce a realistic sounding chime all while providing rumbling midrange sweep. Are these sold in stores?

I don't know that I actually believe this, but it is an interesting claim:http://www.mastersourceaudio.nsmaudio.com/jazz.html

I don't know that I actually believe this, but it is an interesting claim:http://www.mastersourceaudio.nsmaudio.com/jazz.html

Clever little speaker. I can't vouch for the specs but I have heard those 3.5" Fostexes sounding pretty good in open baffles when used with subs. Here's a pal's Fostex-open baffle.

Good Sound, attractive look and wifey approved...worth every penny.

Instead of over priced and mediocre you could have bought a better sounding, better looking set for less money

Instead of over priced and mediocre you could have bought a better sounding, better looking set for less money

You are applying logic to the Bose customer. Sort of an oxymoron. Seriously, if he feels the Bose was worth every penny, it's his money.

Instead of over priced and mediocre you could have bought a better sounding, better looking set for less money

wenis

Well what looks better than bose? :p:rolleyes:

Well what looks better than bose? :p:rolleyes:

Mirage, for one. Several of their speakers are flat-out gorgeous. KEF makes some really attractive models, also.

Clever little speaker. I can't vouch for the specs but I have heard those 3.5" Fostexes sounding pretty good in open baffles when used with subs. Here's a pal's Fostex-open baffle.

I have considered trying a pair, but I remain highly skeptical (40Hz from a 3" speaker in a small enclosure?:eek:)
It is a lot of money if I don't like them.

Gentlemen,
I would like to have your advice. I was planning to buy a Bose Lifestyle, mostly because my apartment is quite small and I need a system with small speakers. Seems that in terms of sound, bigger is better. However, does exist a system with small speakers (like those from Bose) that you could recommend?

Gentlemen,
I would like to have your advice. I was planning to buy a Bose Lifestyle, mostly because my apartment is quite small and I need a system with small speakers. Seems that in terms of sound, bigger is better. However, does exist a system with small speakers (like those from Bose) that you could recommend?

Yes, I would suggest looking at Cambridge Soundworks if you need very small speakers. I would suggest having a good 2-speaker setup instead of spending on 5 lesser speakers.

wenis

Well what looks better than bose? :p:rolleyes:

What doesn't? That will shorten the list.:)

Hate Bose all you want. The truth is they understand marketing. Their setup looks great in the stores. People stop, stare and listen. Some even buy. Even I stop and stare. I am one of those who are looking for Bose alternatives for a bedroom setup. The list is short: Mordaunt short, Orb, Kef and Mirage. I am likely to get Mordaunt short speakers for fronts and center and Orb or Mirage for surround speakers.

Hate Bose all you want. The truth is they understand marketing. Their setup looks great in the stores. People stop, stare and listen.

Agreed. Poor people.

This thread is always a fun trip.

Every time I see one of those Bose commercials, I laugh. Seriously. Last night, I literally laughed out loud. This was not a contemptuous laugh, but rather a spontaneous reaction to something that I couldn't help but find hilarious.

In the commercial, they trotted out all these talking heads to speak to the viritues of Bose speakers. They had all these old couples saying things like, "It sounds better than all those gigantic systems, with none of the size and mess," and "everytime a song comes on, we have to start dancing, no matter what else we're doing."

And then the moment of hilarity. This yuppie kid smiles like a fool into the camera and says, "It's audio perfection," or something like that.

Good Lord. I about busted a gut.

"I think I'd rather star in a Tampon commercial."


Have a field day, no doubt you're well suited for the lead role.

"I think I'd rather star in a Tampon commercial."


I realize most of the people in this thread have vaginas, but there's no reason to call attention to it.

"I think I'd rather star in a Tampon commercial."


Have a field day, no doubt you're well suited for the lead role.

Tom, you sharp tongued devil. LOL

I have bose in my car... Its one of those stereos thats built on to the dash. It sounds so awful, my last car with noname factory sounded better.

Tom, you sharp tongued devil. LOL



Yeah, but ole Gremmy edited his original post though, now it looks like I'm the guy who wants to star instead of him. I should have quoted his post instead of copying it.

Yeah, but ole Gremmy edited his original post though, now it looks like I'm the guy who wants to star instead of him. I should have quoted his post instead of copying it.

Just havin' fun with ya, Tom. Yes, I admit I editted my post, so people will have to read a couple of posts further to get the punchline.

And yes, I use Tampons. Great big ones made of super-absorbent Brawny paper towels. I have anal leakage as a direct result of listening to Bose speakers for all those years. I'm on a crusade to help the world through the creative use of feminine hygene products.

Up next: Clean your engine block with vinegar and water.

Yeah, ya snookered me pretty good there Gremmy, God bless ya. ;)

I've also heard the 201's and the 301's. These speakers don't sound bad by bookshelf standards. Are they worth $200-500 a pair. No.


I honestly think the 100 Yamaha speakers that we sell at BB sound a heck of alot better than the 151, 201, and 301.

I honestly think the 100 Yamaha speakers that we sell at BB sound a heck of alot better than the 151, 201, and 301.

I agree. I have heard Pioneer speakers on sale for $16 each that sounded better than the 301s.

Brian,

I sincerely hope that you are not insinuating anything negative regarding Budweiser?

Ya, thats right. St. Louis peeps unite!

For whoever said that any $200-300 HTIB can match Bose, you are out of your freaking mind. Not a chance. I am not a Bose fan, I have never been a Bose fan, and they are over priced. However, they sound way better than your average HTIB and are easier to setup.

That said, you can get a nice little 5 speaker set from Mirage, DefTech, Polk, Klipsch, Boston, etc and a nice reciever with HDMI 1.3 audio and lots of extras for the same price. Better sound, better build and WAY more versatility. That's why no one likes bose. You can get MUCH more for the money.

Look at it like this. A Bose Lifestyle 48 is $4000. For that price I can get the following system, spend $1000 on a Pioneer VSX-91TXH, buy and OPPO DVD/SACD player and some decent cables from Blue Jeans or Monoprice.

http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/Intimus-533-Concert-HD,30,36,79.aspx

This will simply CRUSH the Bose in every way.

Brian,

I sincerely hope that you are not insinuating anything negative regarding Budweiser?

Because
U
Deserve
What
Every
Individual
Should
Enjoy
Regularly:)

Ran into another person saying they want to hook up a surround system and they are thinking Bose...
how come no one ever says they are thinking "(insert any other brand)"?

That is a rhetorical question, I know the answer.

Before you guys start pounding, I must confess to being a total speaker newbie.

Bose appears to be almost universally NOT recommended on this board.

For a product that is so popular in the mainstream, with what appears to be a decent range of products (cost wise)... Why does everyone dismiss them?

Because they are THEE most popular speaker, and at the same time WAY over priced.

Oh, and they Blow.

Please close this thread.
whatever

I wish Bose had never been created.

One day, Amar Bose appeared to me, wearing a black hooded cloak and holding the severed head of a goat. He told me that I would have fame and fortune if I would agree to listen to Bose speakers for the rest of my life.

Now, all I have are Bose speakers and a severed goat head. Why, Amar? Why?!

I actually started laughing out loud when I read the title of this thread. Honestly, the reasons are just too painfully obvious to state.

As the adage goes - "if it has no highs, and it has no lows, it must be a Bose!"

You can now buy computers that allow you to select only the threads that you desire to read and bypass the ones that disgust you.

LMFAO!



Most people who buy Bose really feel like they are getting the best, and that's ok. Advertisement and word of mouth is strong, and Bose has this in spades. Bose isn't junk, no common person would hear their products and say it sounds bad....it doesn't. It just sounds poor next to other brands. Bose is overpriced, no question about it, people just need to be educated that there are better and ofter cheaper alternatives. When someone mentions to me that they are considering Bose, I politely point out those facts.

Please dude, tell you are just kidding... Bose sounds absolutely HORRIBLE. They do not use separate drivers, they use 5.5" "bass cubes" (LOL), they have no highs or lows. Their speakers are just awful.

Ran into another person saying they want to hook up a surround system and they are thinking Bose...
how come no one ever says they are thinking "(insert any other brand)"?

That is a rhetorical question, I know the answer.

Three reasons:

1. Most people have horrible taste and do not care about accurate sound representation.

2. Most people fall for corporate hype and viral advertising.

3. Most people care about "style" over functionality.

(sadly)

Ya, thats right. St. Louis peeps unite!

For whoever said that any $200-300 HTIB can match Bose, you are out of your freaking mind. Not a chance. I am not a Bose fan, I have never been a Bose fan, and they are over priced. However, they sound way better than your average HTIB and are easier to setup.

That said, you can get a nice little 5 speaker set from Mirage, DefTech, Polk, Klipsch, Boston, etc and a nice reciever with HDMI 1.3 audio and lots of extras for the same price. Better sound, better build and WAY more versatility. That's why no one likes bose. You can get MUCH more for the money.

Look at it like this. A Bose Lifestyle 48 is $4000. For that price I can get the following system, spend $1000 on a Pioneer VSX-91TXH, buy and OPPO DVD/SACD player and some decent cables from Blue Jeans or Monoprice.

http://www.aperionaudio.com/product/Intimus-533-Concert-HD,30,36,79.aspx

This will simply CRUSH the Bose in every way.

No, just no. Bose is absolute TRASH. Most HTiB's at LEAST have separate drivers for mids and highs. Bose systems do not even use real subwoofers. They use horrible little 5.5" drivers that can NOT output low frequencies with even remote accuracy. (but I do agree on your other points)

Anybody who hasn't heard speakers such as Lowthers, Dia-Tones, Fostexes, TangBands, Jordans, Altec 755s, JBL LE-8s and EV SP-8s has no business saying that a single wide range driver can't make good highs. Having not heard them means your experience is very limited and your opinion of little value.

Now if you HAVE heard those speakers and don't like them fine, I can respect that. But if you haven't maybe you should keep your jibs shut on the subject....<snip>

;)

I have heard the JBL's and owned a smaller single mid+bass driver model, forgot the model number, for office use. I have heard and owned many other small single-driver desk-top computer and game speakers.

I respectfully disagree with the assertion that until one has heard full-range single-driver speaker, one cannot describe whether they sound "good"; high or otherwise. Simple physics and material sciences can tell us there is no way current full-range single-driver speaker design that uses the traditional cone and surround and magnetic voice-coil can be anywhere near as accurate as a good quality multi-driver speaker.

If it were possible, I would even go as far as to challenge all of the single-driver model named in the quoted post above to challenge a small simple 2- or 3-driver system by Polk, JBL or Paradigm. Driven by the exact same source components, a multi-driver system will blow away or match those single-driver system.

A single-driver approach is by design, compromised. If it is "good" in the higher frequency, it is only good to a point, as in may be the louder lower-highs, a very restricted range. It will be impossible to reproduce the delicate airy decay of a delicately struck cymbal. If it could, its midrange will be non-existent.

Good is a relative term when it comes to "Full Range" driver as claimed by Bose. There is a simple question I always ask when this comes up. WHen a cymbal and a kick drum and a guitar are all clanging, kicking and plucking away simultaneously in a band, a wide spectrum of musical information is produced that can likely span the entire 20-20,000 hz range. How does a single driver accurately reproduce this entire frequency range precisely as the band has played it in terms of frequencies and amplitude (time and phase)?

While an "equalizer" can make some decisions and make this "full range" driver vibrate in such a manner as to cover a wider spectrum of sound, it will need to induce delays to do it because a single driver can only do so much in a given amount of time. The sound coming from the metallic, hard as nail, cymbal is different from that softer, rounder, rather vibrant guitar string. Theoretically speaking then, while a multi-driver system can come closest to simultaneously radiating all that sound energy to our ears, a full-range single-driver speaker must, by design compromises, stretch that same signal out over time for it to respond to all the variations in the frequency range. Once it does that, it is no longer accurate, no longer able to produce any details or anything that resembles real music. So one can forget about "imaging", "sound stage", "mid-range sweetness" and so on. So forget about it sounding "good" if "good" is taken to mean musically good.

A lot of people like to believe that they cannot hear the difference. That is also hogwash!

When friends ask about Bose, or start selling me on the virtues of Bose, it takes great effort to control my facial expression and word choices. I try to explain the difference by asking them my favorite question as stated above. THis makes them think and teaches them a bit about the simple science behind speakers. If they still insist on Bose, it is their cash and their ears.

Happy listenting.

Three reasons:

1. Most people have horrible taste and do not care about accurate sound representation.

2. Most people fall for corporate hype and viral advertising.

3. Most people care about "style" over functionality.

(sadly)



No, just no. Bose is absolute TRASH. Most HTiB's at LEAST have separate drivers for mids and highs. Bose systems do not even use real subwoofers. They use horrible little 5.5" drivers that can NOT output low frequencies with even remote accuracy. (but I do agree on your other points)

Bose does use junk drivers and it is a complete ripoff, but I have to agree that a $4000 Bose system does sound better than most $200 HTIB's. Now realize what I just said. A $4000 Bose system sounds better than most $200 HTIB's. The fact that it doesn't sound better than every $200 system is pathetic. Still, as far as bass goes, I completely agree that the Acoustimass is awful - no deep extension (unless you consider 40hz deep :rolleyes:), pretty muddy, and it's crossed over so high that you can practically hear tenors singing from the front corner of your room. Still, it's not anywhere near as bad as some of the <$200 HTIB "subwoofers" out there. I think the Bose digs deeper and is MUCH more accurate. I heard one setup at Best Buy in which a $250 Samsung HTIB was playing a U2 concert DVD. There were no bass "notes," only distorted rumbling, and this was at low volume. Keep in mind this is a concert DVD, not an action movie with LFE explosion effects! Why did it sound like rumbling??

Anyway, I in no way want to "defend" Bose. I think it's extremely overpriced and I wouldn't personally touch it with a 10-foot pole. However, let's just say I've heard much worse (sadly). I realize that Bose's use of multiple 5.5" "bass" drivers doesn't exactly put out much bass, but it's better than the SINGLE 5.5" or 6.5" driver used in some HTIB "subs." At any rate, I don't want either - I'll keep my towers and SVS subs, thank you very much :).

To truly bring out the best from a Bose speaker system you need Monster high speed cables.

There is a simple question I always ask when this comes up. WHen a cymbal and a kick drum and a guitar are all clanging, kicking and plucking away simultaneously in a band, a wide spectrum of musical information is produced that can likely span the entire 20-20,000 hz range. How does a single driver accurately reproduce this entire frequency range precisely as the band has played it in terms of frequencies and amplitude (time and phase)?
That's an interesting question. If I were to attempt to answer it, I guess the simple answer would be that the ultimate destination of the sound waves for all those instruments is a single "driver" (the eardrum) which is capable of processing the entire 20-20,000 hz range.

Theoretically, what would be the reason(s) that a single driver could not cause the eardrum to vibrate in the same manner as multiple drivers, therefore providing the same sound perception?

That's an interesting question. If I were to attempt to answer it, I guess the simple answer would be that the ultimate destination of the sound waves for all those instruments is a single "driver" (the eardrum) which is capable of processing the entire 20-20,000 hz range.


Woops, I get your meaning. Yes, there is a quest to develop the best loudspeaker that can come closest to reproduce the original recording faithfully. WHether it is single radiator or multiple, it will depend on the science. The science of the future may indeed be able to do something with single-radiator, I dare not rule that out. For now though, there is no such material in existence.

I am not an MD and have little scientific expertise regarding our hearing. My best guess is because our ear drum is extremely small and extremely sensitive that it can detect very subtle variation in sound, even air pressure changes! I also speculate that we do not hear just with our ears. Just like we can feel deep bass, I believe vibrations of our head and skull can also cause the ear drums to vibrate. So we are picking up more than just what can reach the drum through the ear canal. We also have likely the best crossover in our brain. The ear drum can easily detect all the sound waves and transmit them quickly to the crossover in our brain. From there, we can discern what is high vs mid vs low.

Is this practical as a loudspeaker? It depends on what do we have today. Do we have the material and the science to reverse engineer our hearing system and turn it into a perfect sound-reproduction system? Don't know.

Another way to ask this question is to take Bose for example. Is Bose's full-range single-radiator design a replica of our ear-drum or the entire ear structure? Obviously not. So we are back to discussing music-reproduction in today's terms.

There is also a big difference between passive detection and active generation. Generation of sound requires energy while listening requires only acute sensitivity and a perfect cross-over in our brain. Two different challenges, two different systems meant for two different purposes.

I get what you are saying, it is an interesting thought.

If you are interested in how the ear works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_ear

I think that the key with the ear isn't any physical superiority that it has but what your brain is able to do with the information it sees. Basically think of it as having a not so special membrane with an awesome DSP that is able to do all kinds of adaptations to the incoming sound to shape it into what it's supposed to be... Ironically this is kind of the Bose theory behind using crappy drivers that are electrically EQ'd.