Why Not Bose? [Text View] - Page 6

Kubbie

02-29-08, 05:09 PM

J_Palmer_Cass

02-29-08, 05:15 PM

Still, as far as bass goes, I completely agree that the Acoustimass is awful - no deep extension (unless you consider 40hz deep :rolleyes:), pretty muddy, and it's crossed over so high that you can practically hear tenors singing from the front corner of your room. Still, it's not anywhere near as bad as some of the <$200 HTIB "subwoofers" out there. I think the Bose digs deeper and is MUCH more accurate.

Just in case you do not know it, the Bose Acoustimass bass module is not a subwoofer nor does Bose call it a subwoofer. As you noted, it is crossed over properly to blend with the satellite drivers. If you locate an Acoustimass bass module in a corner, who is the dumbass? Bose, or the person who placed the bass module in the wrong place?

By the way, as far as music is concerned 40 Hz is low enough for nearly everyone except the organ grinder lovers. If you are into home theater and live somewhere where you can play your system loud, then add in a subwoofer to the system just like everyone else does. Frankly, a lot of people just do not care about loud and deep bass.

Caaudiophile

02-29-08, 05:27 PM

Just in case you do not know it, the Bose Acoustimass bass module is not a subwoofer nor does Bose call it a subwoofer. As you noted, it is crossed over properly to blend with the satellite drivers. If you locate an Acoustimass bass module in a corner, who is the dumbass? Bose, or the person who placed the bass module in the wrong place?

By the way, as far as music is concerned 40 Hz is low enough for nearly everyone except the organ grinder lovers. If you are into home theater and live somewhere where you can play your system loud, then add in a subwoofer to the system just like everyone else does. Frankly, a lot of people just do not care about loud and deep bass.

I beg to differ. There are many instruments that go below 40 hz. The most popular one is the piano. There is the bassoon, tuba, bass trombone, horn, Double bass.

Double bass and piano are common instruments in many performances and the inability to reproduce their voices accurately renders critical listening impossible.

There is "loud and deep" mushy, uncontrolled, soul-less bass and then there is the tight, controlled and refined bass. You are referring to the a-dime-a-dozen type subwoofer that produces more loud "hum" than what is called bass. A good bass unit can seamlessly integrate with the rest of the sound frequency and really adds a lot of life to a performance. A good bass is worth good cash.

In reality, all of us can use good tight refined bass down to at least 32-hz with 20-hz being the goal.

Here is my suggestion to anyone who has $4000 to burn on Bose. Please do your pocket book a favor and go listen to the Thiel SCS4 at $990 each and listen to them paired with Thiel SS1 subwoofer at $1999 each and the $250 custom crossover. That makes a $990+$990+$1999+$250 system totaling only $4220. This is already a high-end, audiophile-grade speaker system for literally peanuts. You can live with this for the next 20 years. If the SCS4 is too small, then for $200 more, upgrade to a pair of Thiel CS1.6. Now you have a killer system within the $4420 budget.

If we must spend $4000, at least spend it on something that sounds fantastic.

lalakersfan34

02-29-08, 08:47 PM

Just in case you do not know it, the Bose Acoustimass bass module is not a subwoofer nor does Bose call it a subwoofer. As you noted, it is crossed over properly to blend with the satellite drivers. If you locate an Acoustimass bass module in a corner, who is the dumbass? Bose, or the person who placed the bass module in the wrong place?

I do know that the Bose Acoustimass module is not a "subwoofer," and I never said it was. I did compare it to "subwoofers" of cheap HTIB systems, as at least part of its job is to create subwoofer-like effects, but I never claimed the Acoustimass module that comes with their HT systems was a sub.

By the way, before calling someone who places the bass module in a corner names, Bose's user manual has a picture with the bass module IN A CORNER. This might lead people to do just that - place it where the picture in the manual shows it in the diagram :rolleyes:.

By the way, as far as music is concerned 40 Hz is low enough for nearly everyone except the organ grinder lovers. Frankly, a lot of people just do not care about loud and deep bass.

With respect to extension, there are tons of reasons to have sub 40hz response! Most any action movie will have bass in the 30's, 20's, and maybe even lower. I bring up movies because Bose systems are marketed as home theater systems, so they should be able to reproduce at least most of the bass in movies. I'm not calling for 15hz reproduction, but an octave above that would be nice :cool:. Music also has sub 40hz sounds. As was mentioned, the piano goes under 30hz, and other instruments get right around 40hz as well (Caaudiophile mentioned a few). Kick drums produce lower-than-40hz sound that brings a higher level of presence than the main "kick". Other large percussion instruments also dig deep.

Does everyone need ultra low bass extension? No. Should anyone looking for accurate music or movie reproduction look to Bose? Probably not. You should also note that my previous post, while not exactly a Bose advertisement, compared Acoustimass systems favorably to another (albeit cheap) system.

If you are into home theater and live somewhere where you can play your system loud, then add in a subwoofer to the system just like everyone else does.

If you are into home theater and live somewhere you can play your system loud, and have enough money for a $4000 Bose system, get some quality speakers and a good sub! Don't add a real sub to a Bose system. I can understand the appeal of Bose to people that can't afford to have a system that is big or loud. But if you're going to assume someone has the ability and desire to have a true HT experience, I don't see how you can recommend Bose with a straight face.

Raymond Leggs

02-29-08, 10:27 PM

Before you guys start pounding

We already have. :rolleyes:

Raymond Leggs

02-29-08, 10:36 PM

I've seen a Bose display where they switch between the TV sound and the system.
Ooh, great comparison...

When people don't have a reference point of what you can get for the same money, they just don't know any better.

My dad has a Sony HTIB with little cubes and a "bass" module. Garbage. Paid something like $400.

My father-in-law has a Bose 3·2·1 DVD system. I think it was around a $1000. No center, no rear surounds. Sounds not much different than his TV just louder.

I have a budget 5.1 home theater:
Onkyo 505 receiver
Klipsch RB 61 Fronts
Klipsch RC 62 Center
Klipsch R-3650-W In-wall rear surrounds
Kenwood 10 year old 12" Subwoofer.

For the receiver and Klipsch speakers, I paid $1031, with tax, shipping. (Not counting the sub.)

In audiophile terms - my system kills the Bose. Crisp highs, natural midrange, clarity, soundstage, bass you can feel, no distortion, much higher volume, 7.1, audyssey eq setup, second zone for my outdoor patio... on and on...

Yes, I know I have nothing to brag about, but the difference between the Bose and my system is very substantial. Going up from here, the upgrade path is more incremental. Floorstanders to replace my bookshelf fronts, move the bookshelfs to my mid surrounds, a new sub in the $300 - $500 range. Receiver upgrade...

But even that won't be a huge change as going from Bose 3·2·1 to what I have now.
That's for about a grand.

Step if to a $3000 Bose Lifestyle V30, or Bose Lifestyle 48 DVD for $4000 - I just laugh. I guarantee I give any of you to go spend $3000 - $4000 on a receiver and a 5.1 or 7.1 system, you can get something rockin', and have room for a Blu-ray in there.

My music system also kills the Bose even though I have what would be consiered cheesy speakers. :rolleyes:

Yo know a system sucks when there is a big Hole in the midrange! :p

But then again Bose is pretty cheesy too. Bose needs to step up there game a lot and giet into the 21st century. or at least put one "8" woofer in the bass mpdule instead of four "5"'s LOL. :rolleyes:

I beg to differ. There are many instruments that go below 40 hz. The most popular one is the piano. There is the bassoon, tuba, bass trombone, horn, Double bass.

Double bass and piano are common instruments in many performances and the inability to reproduce their voices accurately renders critical listening impossible.

There is "loud and deep" mushy, uncontrolled, soul-less bass and then there is the tight, controlled and refined bass. You are referring to the a-dime-a-dozen type subwoofer that produces more loud "hum" than what is called bass. A good bass unit can seamlessly integrate with the rest of the sound frequency and really adds a lot of life to a performance. A good bass is worth good cash.

In reality, all of us can use good tight refined bass down to at least 32-hz with 20-hz being the goal.

If we must spend $4000, at least spend it on something that sounds fantastic.

And What do you consider serious listening? :rolleyes:

I guess pop music doesn't count. :rolleyes:

volsfan0911

02-29-08, 10:37 PM

This thread has been wonderfully entertaining. I've ended up reading the whole thing (while drinking a Miller Lite at that :p). My SVS system arrived today and it's literally sitting on the floor, temporarily on stands, certainly not broken in and no where near 'optimal listening positions' - especially the sub. Yet I'm sitting here with just a plain old CD (not even SACD, DVD-A, yada, yada) absolutely enthralled with them. And music allegedly isn't their forte. Oh - and only a budget receiver driving them (V661). The SBS-01/V661 and A30 ran $1000 + $400 + $200 and throw in $40 for banana jacks and 100' of 14AWG speaker wire from Monoprice. Best money I've spent on audio since a pair of Shure SE530's for flying. Now that I think about it, they destroy Blowz QC2 or 3's and I got them for the same price as well. Hmmmm :rolleyes:

Caaudiophile

02-29-08, 11:34 PM

And What do you consider serious listening? :rolleyes:

I guess pop music doesn't count. :rolleyes:

Serious listening? :) Serious listening is when lights are dimmed, we are parked in our seats and just play one CD after another. We try to listen to the performances rather than just the music itself. It took 7 years to accumulate our gear so we intend to enjoy them.

Pop music? I actually like them if your Pop is the same as my pop? Paul Mauriat? James Last? Yanni? Glenn Miller replay? Old old jazz like those by Nt King Cole, Louie Armstrong, New Orlean Jazz, etc. Oh yeah, John Denver, Duke Ellington, etc.... Uuuh.. you can probably guess my age? As in Credence Clearwater? Fleetwood Mac, Beatles, The Doors, Mamas and the Papas, Rolling Stones, Bob Dylan, Grateful Dead, that era in our history that many of us prefer to forget :).

We still have a nice turntable with a Rega p9 that feeds an Audio Research PH3 phono amplifier. Sweet!!!

Unearthed

03-02-08, 08:18 PM

I got a good kick out of this thread.

Today at my store (CC) an older couple came in and wanted to buy the Lifestyle V20. For those of you that don't know that is their unit that basically includes a "Receiver" in addition to their normal 5.1 system. It costs $1999 and it is actually really hard to even try and sell this system because it sounds so woefully inadequate. They were watching the demo and that absolutely loved it...couldn't believe how great it sounded and looked. Just for giggles I put on Tower of Power on a pair of Polk Monitor 70s and a Velo DPS10 and jacked it up in the sound room where they were listening to the Bose system. They didn't even flinch, they loved the Bose. I took them to a listening area where we have a KEF 3500 system hooked to a Denon 788. I demo'd that system that explained they could purchase the KEF 3005 and an Onkyo 605 for the same price as the Bose Lifestyle system. I didn't say anything bad about the Bose, just showed them some other options. They loved, and went with, the Bose. :(

I guess sometimes marketing is a powerful tool.

BrndNtrl

03-02-08, 08:43 PM

To truly bring out the best from a Bose speaker system you need Monster high speed cables.

I think this made the thread for me :D Awesome.

imromo24

03-03-08, 09:05 AM

I guess sometimes marketing is a powerful tool.

Thats why I don't care for the "if it sounds good to you" advice some people tend to push. Folks that are sold on advertising can't allow themselves to decide what "sounds" good.

PULLIAMM

03-03-08, 09:13 AM

Some of the larger Bose speakers (eg the 301s) make good birdhouses.

gspin2k1

03-03-08, 11:08 AM

I have bose in my car... Its one of those stereos thats built on to the dash. It sounds so awful, my last car with noname factory sounded better.

I have Bose in my car too. No it definitely sounds a lot better than no-name factory speakers that you would find in other cars. But I will say if I ever decided to spend a couple hundred dollars on an aftermarket cd/mp3/wma player and just some replacement speakers...it'd sound like 10x better. I noticed that my bose system, even with the supposed "subwoofer" lacks serious bass. Like my Bass knob has to be almost at max to get the music to sound like what it should, but by then the regular speakers are distorting.

~G

lockmart

03-03-08, 12:02 PM

I have Bose in my car too. No it definitely sounds a lot better than no-name factory speakers that you would find in other cars. But I will say if I ever decided to spend a couple hundred dollars on an aftermarket cd/mp3/wma player and just some replacement speakers...it'd sound like 10x better. I noticed that my bose system, even with the supposed "subwoofer" lacks serious bass. Like my Bass knob has to be almost at max to get the music to sound like what it should, but by then the regular speakers are distorting.

~G

I had Bose with the sub in my Acura TL, and Bose now in my Corvette. Bass isn't really my primary concern so the Acura had plenty. Both systems could use a little more clarity, I listen to the engine now though...

Raymond Leggs

03-03-08, 03:11 PM

I had Bose with the sub in my Acura TL, and Bose now in my Corvette. Bass isn't really my primary concern so the Acura had plenty. Both systems could use a little more clarity, I listen to the engine now though...

Everybody loves the deep throaty sound of a Corvette engine. :D

sxr71

03-07-08, 10:28 PM

American beer tastes like shandy. Try a proper drink- Murphy's, Guiness, paint stripper etc ;-)

Do not insult American beer. Go try a Sierra Nevada or anything from Stone or Rogue or Bell's or... I could go on.

sxr71

03-07-08, 10:42 PM

Using the standard way of assessing quality and customer satisfaction such as JD Powers etc, Bose is ranked extremely high. If many of these people bought Bose due to marketing Hype, they cannot be happy with it forever. Looking at the top 100 innovations as reported by Popular science ( I think) , Bose's wave radio technology ranks pretty good. Bose's professional (auditoria) sound systems are exceptional. Look here (http://www.bose.com/controller;jsessionid=1yEcsGv9XR16ftlvuMKrmgCZvFum23VmYXJS0J k8lonlPz7oLT7L!-1306527806?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/automotive/vehicles/index.jsp&pageName=/automotive/bose_difference/index.jsp) for all the top of the line automobiles that use Bose. Their noice cancelling headphones seem to be the industry leader.

Hence, we must conclude that Bose is not bad because it is Bose as some people may want to picture. Many prefer Bose for their own reasons. For the life of me I cannot figure out why many prefer a certain brand of automobiles over others, even if numbers based logic shows otherwise.

Many bash Bose because it is the "norm" the "thing to do" in a forum like this. For many, the title "audiophile" does not fit unless you bash Bose.

Bose is overpriced and has a lot of market hype may be, but just plain bashing without logic is not corerct.

I bought a Bose pair 12 years ago, and I still use it. I have since joined forums such as this and learned alot and to look for specifics when buying HT stuff. I find better value with Brands such as Acoustic research etc and buy them instead of a Bose. If I'm able to get a pair of Bose 901 for a good deal, I'll stiil consider it in my choice.

peace!
:)

Just replace Bose with Monster Cable or Absolut Vodka in your post. No **** people are happy with it. It's because they've never heard better. They automatically assume they have the best in the world.

I bash Bose because I boomy bass isn't my cup of tea and I hate having to explain to people that Bose is pretty bad especially for the price. They start to hate me for being the messenger. It's just bad when crap gets rated "highly" by "the standard way of assessing quality." People will rate **** highly if it is advertised well enough.

sxr71

03-07-08, 10:45 PM

Excellent points. You often see audiophiles complaining Bose is overpriced, over hyped, a marketing scam, that they charge $1000s for something that costs vastly less to make, etc, etc, etc.

It's ironic some of those same audiophiles strongly believe in ultra-quality, hugely expensive speaker cables. There's a stronger case that *those* are overpriced, over hyped, a marketing scam, etc, than for Bose. To those audiophiles directing potential Bose purchasers to more cost effective alternatives, I say follow your own advice and ditch your fancy speaker cables for 12 gauge zip wire :)

No doubt some of the insanely expensive audio cable that we see is an even worse scam than Bose. I won't go so far getting zip wire but I will buy my cables very carefully and even if I win the lottery I won't spend more than a certain reasonable amount on cables. I won't support those charlatans either.

sxr71

03-07-08, 10:50 PM

I was given a Bose AM10 as a hand-me-down. It was a step up from the crappy speakers that my old Sony HTIB was. I could hear a much improved sound on HT and an improvement on music as well. However, I now have a Denon 3803 that I purchased due to all the praise I've seen on this board. I currently don't have the capital to invest in a new speaker system. My girlfriend is moving in with me in about six months and she has a nice 15 inch JBL sub to add to the system. Since the Bose are not truely 5.1 can I simply add the JBL to the sub output and expect to still have decent timbre matching? Or does timbre matching not matter much in the lower frequencies? Is there anything I could do to the Acoustimass module to eek out more bass - like stuffing the enclosure behind the speaker with foam? I guess what I'm asking is are there any mods I can do with the system to try to improve it until I can save up the funds to purchase the Paradigms that I really want? I already shortened the 10 miles of speaker cable that came with the system and used MC banana plugs into the 3803.

BTW - I've used the Avia disc to check the frequency response and the biggest hole occurs at about 200Hz. By increasing the bass on the 3803 I was able to get the volume back up at about 120Hz and down to about 35 then the sound output dimishes quickly. I don't have a SPL meter yet and was hoping to get one for Christmas but my girlfriend got me a 9800 ATI video card instead. Bless her heart. Once I get it I will take some measurements before and after adding the sub and I will post the results.

Thanks for your patience with yet another newbie.

It's pretty tough since those stupid cubes are supposed to handling the 200Hz range and they can't plain and simple. Your sub won't go that high since it is a true subwoofer. You're kind of screwed until you get some speakers that can operate to at least 120Hz. If anything, in your shoes, I would get a stereo pair and let the Bose handle the rear and center. Honestly I would also try to get a real center also if movies are important to you, but I'm a 2-channel stereo guy even for movies. I haven't been to justify the added expense and complexity for surround yet.

big angry

03-07-08, 11:00 PM

Like most everybody here I would agree that Bose is extremely overrated. My dad's got an Acoustimass system that he paid around $3000 for, meanwhile my entry-level Polk system blows his away for less than 1/3 the price.

I must say however, that their clock radios are pretty nice. Not $400 nice, which is about what they cost, but they do put out a great warm sound that fills the room. I wouldn't mind having one actually.

sxr71

03-08-08, 12:25 AM

blake18

03-08-08, 01:48 AM

That's an interesting question. If I were to attempt to answer it, I guess the simple answer would be that the ultimate destination of the sound waves for all those instruments is a single "driver" (the eardrum) which is capable of processing the entire 20-20,000 hz range.

Theoretically, what would be the reason(s) that a single driver could not cause the eardrum to vibrate in the same manner as multiple drivers, therefore providing the same sound perception?

I'm sorry, but your "logic" is just retarded.

mvwhiting_83

03-08-08, 02:27 AM

Hah the last time I went to the UK, all the young people were drinking Bud :P

I was drinking Samuel Smiths of course, but ....

Well that's because young people are dumb, they haven't developed an actual taste for quality ale.

mvwhiting_83

03-08-08, 02:30 AM

I must say however, that their clock radios are pretty nice. Not $400 nice, which is about what they cost, but they do put out a great warm sound that fills the room. I wouldn't mind having one actually.

I would even have to disagree with you on this one too sir... You can't play an ipod through that thing at higher than 54. At that point you can just play it through your tv.

mvwhiting_83

03-08-08, 02:31 AM

Any company that spends more in marketing than they do in R&D makes a flawed product... it's almost a law of nature.

mvwhiting_83

03-08-08, 02:38 AM

Do not insult American beer. Go try a Sierra Nevada or anything from Stone or Rogue or Bell's or... I could go on.

American beer deserves all the $#!+ that is hurled at it. 3 beers that aren't anything special against - we'll say 100 years of brewing sacrelige... Makes for the deepest hole any decent American brewer has to dig himself out of.

Europe and the UK and even Oz for that matter, will have beer on America for quite a few centuries more... The ugly redheaded stepchild will always be counted out.

o yea bose is for people that don't care about audio.

btillman

03-08-08, 09:40 AM

I use to try to convince friends and family not to buy Bose when they asked me if Bose is good. Now I just tell them to buy what fits their lifestyle. The people I know who buy Bose are attracted to the small cubes not sound quality. When these same friends (Bose owners) come over to my house, I try to avoid playing my system because their first reaction is always wow and the next question is How much did you pay for all of this? I always decline to answer the how much question because if they value the size of cute little cubes over sound quality they will never understand the value of my system.

Mikeb53

03-08-08, 10:56 AM

ajstan99

03-08-08, 11:20 AM

I'm sorry, but your "logic" is just retarded.True logic often appears that way to lesser minds. Hey, for an encore, maybe you'd like to muster up all your brain power to make a poopie joke to further demonstrate your rapier-like wit.;)

dave-137

03-08-08, 11:47 AM

Do not insult American beer. Go try a Sierra Nevada or anything from Stone or Rogue or Bell's or... I could go on.

yes you could it makes me want some good American beer:D

gremmy

03-08-08, 12:11 PM

American beer deserves all the $#!+ that is hurled at it. 3 beers that aren't anything special against - we'll say 100 years of brewing sacrelige... Makes for the deepest hole any decent American brewer has to dig himself out of.

Europe and the UK and even Oz for that matter, will have beer on America for quite a few centuries more... The ugly redheaded stepchild will always be counted out.

o yea bose is for people that don't care about audio.

I think beer, all beer, tastes like crap. I've tried the European stuff too. It tastes even more like crap. In my opinion, beer is one of those things that guys drink because they're supposed to like it in order to be manly and somewhere along the way they develop a taste for it, sort of like they way you'd probably develop a taste for cow turds if you ate enough of them.

"Man, these cow turds are AWESOME?!" you say.

"Hell yeah, but I prefer Mich light brand cow turds."

"No wait, try Guinneuss! Those are the thickest, creamiest, most room temperature cow turds of all! And you can really TASTE it!"

So what does all this have to do with audio? Well, perhaps we should all just poke out our eardrums and call it a day.

P.S.

This post is pure trolling. Please don't respond to it, or there's no end to the crap I can spew. After all this is a freakin' BOSE thread for God's sake.

mwolfe38

03-08-08, 12:42 PM

I think beer, all beer, tastes like crap. I've tried the European stuff too. It tastes even more like crap. In my opinion, beer is one of those things that guys drink because they're supposed to like it in order to be manly and somewhere along the way they develop a taste for it, sort of like they way you'd probably develop a taste for cow turds if you ate enough of them.

"Man, these cow turds are AWESOME?!" you say.

"Hell yeah, but I prefer Mich light brand cow turds."

"No wait, try Guinneuss! Those are the thickest, creamiest, most room temperature cow turds of all! And you can really TASTE it!"

So what does all this have to do with audio? Well, perhaps we should all just poke out our eardrums and call it a day.

P.S.

This post is pure trolling. Please don't respond to it, or there's no end to the crap I can spew. After all this is a freakin' BOSE thread for God's sake.

Haha, I used to think this was true when i was in high school and all i knew about were bud/light and coors. Then I had some darker beers (newcastle was my gateway beer) and ever since I've loved the taste of a good strong/hoppy ale or a nice smooth (and strong) porter or stout. Honestly you probably just haven't had good beer before or haven't been in the right setting to enjoy it.
My bet is you've never drank anything in your life that wasn't excessively sweet besides water or milk.
It is somewhat of an aquired taste for most but my wife who almost never drinks beer, when given a micro brewery ale (something like firestone pale ale i believe) liked the taste and she doesnt care for any of the cheap american pilsner's you frequently find in 30 packs at your local grocery store.
Anyways, I think this thread was about BOSE speakers but it sounds like beer is a whole lot more interesting, go figure.

blake18

03-08-08, 07:16 PM

gremmy

03-08-08, 10:09 PM

Haha, I used to think this was true when i was in high school and all i knew about were bud/light and coors. Then I had some darker beers (newcastle was my gateway beer) and ever since I've loved the taste of a good strong/hoppy ale or a nice smooth (and strong) porter or stout. Honestly you probably just haven't had good beer before or haven't been in the right setting to enjoy it.
My bet is you've never drank anything in your life that wasn't excessively sweet besides water or milk.
It is somewhat of an aquired taste for most but my wife who almost never drinks beer, when given a micro brewery ale (something like firestone pale ale i believe) liked the taste and she doesnt care for any of the cheap american pilsner's you frequently find in 30 packs at your local grocery store.
Anyways, I think this thread was about BOSE speakers but it sounds like beer is a whole lot more interesting, go figure.

I see you've cultivated a taste for it. There's no turning back now.

KMR

03-08-08, 10:58 PM

To truly get a great musical performance out of your Bose Lifestyle system, you need quality musical performances from terrific artists such as Justin Timberlake, 50 Cent, or Fergie.

imromo24

03-09-08, 12:16 AM

Yes that would be good because Bose speakers could never play all of the real musical instruments and vocals of the Wu Tang Clan 8 Diagrams CD and DVD and the very wide range and soundstage on the CD.

gunbunnysoulja

03-09-08, 01:22 AM

cyphrex

03-09-08, 03:00 AM

blake18

03-09-08, 03:16 AM

+1- Beer is uber gross.

P.S.- I love how the Bose thread got turned into beer discussions. I guess beer has just as much a right to be in an audio forum as bose does though.

HAHAHAHA that was good!:D

blake18

03-09-08, 03:18 AM

One of my favorite scenes in the movie "CLICK" is the one where the kid boasts my dad has Bose in the Cadillac and Adam Sandler (forgot the name of the main character he plays, sorry) replies "Yeah and it BLOSE!!"

I LOVE that scene, I believe the kid says "What stereo system do you have? MY dad has a Bose" Adam Sandler replies "What was that? Your dad's stereo system Blose??"

ickabod665

03-09-08, 12:27 PM

Gotta say I agree. I have never drank a beer that I liked for the taste. All beer inherently tastes horrible. Drinking beer is, essentially, like drinking piss.

So true. Nobody drinks beer because of the taste. They drink beer because of the marketing. How ironic that this topic snuck it's way into a thread complaining about people who are suckered in by the marketing of BOSE.

Occasionally i'll have a beer. But only when i'm in a situation where "it's the thing to do". If i want something that tastes good, i'll have a can of pop.

Rasterfarian

03-09-08, 11:09 PM

So true. Nobody drinks beer because of the taste. They drink beer because of the marketing. How ironic that this topic snuck it's way into a thread complaining about people who are suckered in by the marketing of BOSE.

Occasionally i'll have a beer. But only when i'm in a situation where "it's the thing to do". If i want something that tastes good, i'll have a can of pop.Please don't presume to speak for everyone. My favorite beers don't advertise at all - at not around here, anyway, and probably nowhere.

If you don't like beer, fine. Not everyone does. Make a statement - if you don't want to drink a beer, just decline; lots of folks do exactly that and there's not a thing wrong with it. Don't assume that everyone else just thinks they like it and chokes it down because they're told to.

If I want something that tastes sweet, I'll have a pop. If I want something that tastes good, I'll have a beer (if I can - it's not allowed or appropriate a lot of times and places).

And, to keep this OT, Bose used to have some innovative ideas which worked to varying degrees, but now they're more hype and marketing.

Cheers!

gunbunnysoulja

03-09-08, 11:12 PM

I'd like to officially request the Thread title to be changed to, "Why Not Beer?"

TreyS

03-10-08, 12:07 AM

So true. Nobody drinks beer because of the taste. They drink beer because of the marketing. How ironic that this topic snuck it's way into a thread complaining about people who are suckered in by the marketing of BOSE.

Occasionally i'll have a beer. But only when i'm in a situation where "it's the thing to do". If i want something that tastes good, i'll have a can of pop.

You guys are crazy, not every taste bug is created equal. Just because you don't care for the taste doesn't mean everyone else is faking it. lol

I LOVE NewCastle. Been drinking it before there were even commercials or print ads.

The only thing I will agree on is "American" beer tastes like piss. ;)

Now back to the topic. I auditioned the Bose Acoustimass many years ago against the JBL Movies II system. The JBLs sounded better to me but I concluded it was because there were more midrange speakers in their system. Are the JBLs that great, not when compared to high end speakers. But the Bose were tinny to me.

gunbunnysoulja

03-10-08, 12:08 AM

How about Miller High Life, The Champagne of Beers? :)

Raymond Leggs

03-10-08, 01:31 AM

Most movie theatres don't sound too much better than the bose systems, So The Bose HTIB's Arent really arent that bad in my opinion. Yes the bass module drops off at 40hz but most towers do also. And the Bose systems werent meant to be a full-range system just an alternitive to floorstanders.. :rolleyes:

Yes the mids,bass and highs leave a lot to be desired but Theatre speakers do too.

Most theatres go SLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMM MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!! and TISHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH *snap* *crackle* *pop* due to over equalization and so do the bose.

blake18

03-10-08, 01:37 AM

gunbunnysoulja

03-10-08, 01:57 AM

ickabod665

03-10-08, 06:34 PM

Please don't presume to speak for everyone. Don't assume that everyone else just thinks they like it and chokes it down because they're told to.

Fair enough. Then maybe we as a group shouldn't assume that BOSE is enjoyed only by people who don't know what they're talking about.

Goose, gander.

steelyken

03-10-08, 06:50 PM

Though I haven't seen any movement in months, it is good to see we have such dedicated stick-in-the-hand enthusiasts taking still another swat at Ole Trigger.

Raymond Leggs

03-10-08, 07:29 PM

Fair enough. Then maybe we as a group shouldn't assume that BOSE is enjoyed only by people who don't know what they're talking about.

Goose, gander.

Finally soomeone with some sense.

imromo24

03-10-08, 08:12 PM

Fair enough. Then maybe we as a group shouldn't assume that BOSE is enjoyed only by people who don't know what they're talking about.

Goose, gander.

I think the point is that they don't. ;)

WolfsBane

03-10-08, 09:39 PM

Please don't presume to speak for everyone. My favorite beers don't advertise at all - at not around here, anyway, and probably nowhere.

If you don't like beer, fine. Not everyone does. Make a statement - if you don't want to drink a beer, just decline; lots of folks do exactly that and there's not a thing wrong with it. Don't assume that everyone else just thinks they like it and chokes it down because they're told to.

If I want something that tastes sweet, I'll have a pop. If I want something that tastes good, I'll have a beer (if I can - it's not allowed or appropriate a lot of times and places).

And, to keep this OT, Bose used to have some innovative ideas which worked to varying degrees, but now they're more hype and marketing.

Cheers!

Agree on your position with beer. As far as Bose is concerned, I'm surprised this thread is still going. If people want to buy Bose products, hey... it's their coin. But having listened to their systems these past years, I have to agree that their product is more about hype and marketing than it is innovation and substance. The last Bose speakers that I listened to and took seriously as a potentially viable product was the 901. It didn't come in for final selection, but at least it was a serious option for serious audiophiles (and a direct/reflect speaker was kind of a cool possibility at the time). That, was innovation. What they put out these days, however, is miniaturization marketing for the massess.

kansashick

03-11-08, 04:42 PM

I can't believe that this thread is still going on -- sucking the blood and energy out of its participants. Or, is that the Blose marketing department?

ptt660

03-11-08, 06:29 PM

So true. Nobody drinks beer because of the taste. They drink beer because of the marketing. How ironic that this topic snuck it's way into a thread complaining about people who are suckered in by the marketing of BOSE.

Occasionally i'll have a beer. But only when i'm in a situation where "it's the thing to do". If i want something that tastes good, i'll have a can of pop.

LOL! I could not agree more. The main reason i will drink beer at a club or bar is to save some money. How can i drink this beverage fast when the taste sucks so bad? It takes all i can just to sip a few beers. I can confidently say that i drink a beer slower than any beverage known to man. But hey, after managing to force down all of two beers during a night at a club, my reward is the minimum financial hit! Serve me ANYTHING else and my tab goes way up! Long live beer!:D

My brother hates beer so much that the rare occasion he orders one he tell the waitress.......Can i get a "Delicious Beer" please?

Paul

andy sullivan

03-11-08, 07:37 PM

I wonder what beer haters consider they're favorite beer. I mean, do some beers suck less or do they all fall into the abyss of suckdom?

Raymond Leggs

03-11-08, 08:41 PM

Why look ay only bose when you have:

Altec lansing
Logitech
roadmaster
Ihome/Soundesign
Cerwin Vega
Onkyo
JBL
Marantz
KLH
Durabrand
Lenoxx sound
Broksonic
Panisonic
Lasonic
Harman kardon
GPX
Streem
The speaker company
Pardagim
Martin Logan
Jansezen
Jensen
Polk
Blue ridge Audio
JVC
Fisher
Kenwood
Yamaha
Warfdale
Athena
NHT
US.Blaster
Insignia
Audiovox
Jensen
Phillips

with all these choices there is NO reason to try before you buy the bose.

Johnla

03-11-08, 08:42 PM

I wonder what beer haters consider they're favorite beer. I mean, do some beers suck less or do they all fall into the abyss of suckdom?

Beer haters are probably just upset because you can't really own beer, as you only 'rent' beer for a very short amount of time before it passes through...;)

PULLIAMM

03-12-08, 08:02 AM

I wonder what beer haters consider they're favorite beer. I mean, do some beers suck less or do they all fall into the abyss of suckdom?

When I drank beer, it was always the cheap stuff.:cool: (I haven't touched any form of alcohol in over a year, however, and never will again.)

imromo24

03-13-08, 11:01 AM

Cheap Beer + Used Bose = happy college kid

(not me by the way)

Cyrano

03-13-08, 02:22 PM

The beer I like is Harp lager. I drink a couple a year. (Not a beer drinker) Someone mentioned that drinking beer is like drinking piss. I can see the theoretical possibility but I can't imagine what it would take to make that statement with any certainty. :eek:

And I'm glad to see this thread still popping up. It is a good read. (about bad speakers :p )

Latin-Man

03-13-08, 03:21 PM

Cheap Beer + Used Bose = happy college kid

(not me by the way)

Raise your hand if your one of them....

(slowly raising his hand):D

however, I bought them new for dam good price:cool:

penngray

03-13-08, 03:36 PM

So true. Nobody drinks beer because of the taste. They drink beer because of the marketing. How ironic that this topic snuck it's way into a thread complaining about people who are suckered in by the marketing of BOSE.

Occasionally i'll have a beer. But only when i'm in a situation where "it's the thing to do". If i want something that tastes good, i'll have a can of pop.

You obviously haven't travelled too much and you definitely haven't been to Dublin. The other problem is that American's really dont know what a good beer tastes like. Its all pretty much crap, unless you find a decent micro-brewery. Im lucky to grow up in Canada and I have travelled the world.

I love my Guiness!! I love having a beer and YES I love the taste of a good beer. Me and millions of other people around the world. Yes, American beer tastes like water and maybe that is your problem!

In Dublin, they wake up, work a couple of hours then go and have a Pint or two...yes, in the morning a Pint of Guiness is very popular over there.

Can of Pop tastes good...WTF are you a kid? Maybe a glass of Wine (Red or White), maybe a glass of 12 year old scotch NEVER on the rocks but when you say a "can of pop" all I can think is that you are dumb-butthead, pimple-nosed kid with no real taste and no idea about the real world and the REAL drinks that people love.

So much for the discussion about BOSE ;)

Jim85IROC

03-13-08, 03:37 PM

I love cheap American beer and hate Bose. The great thing about America is that I get to choose any beverage I want and any speakers I want, and regardless of what other lemming twits have to say about either. I'm free to form my own opinions and make my own choices. :)

gunbunnysoulja

03-13-08, 03:41 PM

You obviously haven't travelled too much and you definitely haven't been to Dublin.

I've been almost everywhere in the world, and beer still sucks (for me)!

It was fun drinking it in Germany though. :)

If I had to pick one that didn't taste as bad as others, I'd have to go with Miller High Life, The Champagne of Beer

Oh, and if I had to pick the worst, well... that would be Guiness :)

I do however understand that people do enjoy beer, and I respect that. I just think people shouldn't assume people who don't like beer have no idea about the "Real World".

lwien

03-13-08, 03:47 PM

I hardly ever drink beer. Just usually don't like the taste of it. But I'll tell ya this. On a really hot day, when you are really thirsty, an ice cold beer is unbelievably good.

BTW, I never knew that Bose made beer. Bose Beer? You haven't experienced beer till you've drank it out of a cube.

PULLIAMM

03-13-08, 03:52 PM

I have never understood the concept of non-alcoholic beer. Alcohol is the only reason I can imagine for drinking the stuff. Certainly not the taste.

lwien

03-13-08, 03:55 PM

LOL I feel the same way about decaf coffee.

mayhem13

03-13-08, 04:12 PM

I must admit, i owned a pair of 901's for a long time in a music only system and i really miss those speakers. Maybe it was the room but i haven't experienced a more pleasing soundstage since they were stolen !

J_Palmer_Cass

03-13-08, 04:38 PM

You guys are a bunch of cheapskates. Here is a new Bose company!

Super Gyms For The Super-Rich
© Bosse Sports

Bosse Sports

Sudbury, Mass.

Cost: $600 per month to $50,000 per year, depending on membership category

Bosse Sports offers luxurious fitness options at its country club-like space in the Boston suburbs. It has five indoor tennis courts, four indoor/outdoor courts, an aquatics center, a 25,000-square-foot indoor golf learning center, a Brazilian teak fitness floor with high-end strength and cardiovascular equipment, two training studios and a two-story climbing wall. To wrap up a hard workout, clients can get a massage in the day spa. Membership costs vary depending on the season and level of access; two categories are sold out, but waiting lists are open.

Raymond Leggs

03-13-08, 04:47 PM

Bose should be sued because their products violate the lemon law. :p

gunbunnysoulja

03-13-08, 04:55 PM

gunbunnysoulja

03-13-08, 04:56 PM

Bose should be sued because their products violate the lemon law. :p

lol

ickabod665

03-13-08, 10:34 PM

Can of Pop tastes good...WTF are you a kid? Maybe a glass of Wine (Red or White), maybe a glass of 12 year old scotch NEVER on the rocks but when you say a "can of pop" all I can think is that you are dumb-butthead, pimple-nosed kid with no real taste and no idea about the real world and the REAL drinks that people love.

You go on the internet, call someone a dumb butthead, and ask if I'M a kid? :rolleyes: Classy.

I'll go back to standing behind my original comment. People drink beer not because it tastes good, but because, in addition to it's ability to get us drunk, it's marketed as being "cool". The "adult" thing to do. The same marketing ploy as what's used to sell cigarettes. You wanna convince yourself it tastes good, then hey, knock yourself out. But i'm here to tell ya, put a can of Pepsi, and a Labatts Blue in front of anyone who's never been exposed to the marketing of either beer or soda, and they'll pick the Pepsi in a taste test 10 times out of 10. Take that to the bank.

And to keep this on topic (somehow), i'll point out that i stayed away from buying a Bose because of this very thread. Went with Orb's Mod2 all around and couldn't be happier because of it. Thanks to all who steered me away from Bose.

KMR

03-14-08, 06:47 AM

I'm finding all the talk about beer absolutely hilarious (for whatever reason); it just goes to show you that people really get worked up over their tastes being insulted (whether it be beer, speakers, or whatever).

I can't add anything significant anyway, cause I've never drank in my life, nor do I intend to.

Also, being from the South, I always find it amusing to hear soda called "pop." No one around here ever says 'pop.' Though, all soda is a "coke" here.

"Can I get a coke please?"

"What kind?"

"7-up."

:)

PULLIAMM

03-14-08, 08:52 AM

Bose should be sued because their products violate the lemon law. :p

I have always thought that they should be sued for false advertising. After all, they claim good sound quality, which is an outright lie.:eek:

cajieboy

03-14-08, 10:47 AM

You go on the internet, call someone a dumb butthead, and ask if I'M a kid? :rolleyes: Classy.

I'll go back to standing behind my original comment. People drink beer not because it tastes good, but because, in addition to it's ability to get us drunk, it's marketed as being "cool". The "adult" thing to do. The same marketing ploy as what's used to sell cigarettes. You wanna convince yourself it tastes good, then hey, knock yourself out. But i'm here to tell ya, put a can of Pepsi, and a Labatts Blue in front of anyone who's never been exposed to the marketing of either beer or soda, and they'll pick the Pepsi in a taste test 10 times out of 10. Take that to the bank.

And to keep this on topic (somehow), i'll point out that i stayed away from buying a Bose because of this very thread. Went with Orb's Mod2 all around and couldn't be happier because of it. Thanks to all who steered me away from Bose.

Maybe "being cool" is important to people in your particular peer group, but it has absolutely nothing to do with most adults choice in drinking alcohol. Imbibbing in alcoholic drinks is an "acquired taste", as is many types of foods, and yes...tobacco. Most of the men that signed our beloved Constitution at least occasionally smoked tobacco and drank alcohol for the "enjoyment" of it. Not because it was "cool". Also, most adults realize that over-indulgent practices in most of life's simple pleasures is not good for you. Moderation was also well understood by our country's founding fathers.

Jim85IROC

03-14-08, 11:02 AM

You go on the internet, call someone a dumb butthead, and ask if I'M a kid? :rolleyes: Classy.

I'll go back to standing behind my original comment. People drink beer not because it tastes good, but because, in addition to it's ability to get us drunk, it's marketed as being "cool". The "adult" thing to do. The same marketing ploy as what's used to sell cigarettes. You wanna convince yourself it tastes good, then hey, knock yourself out. But i'm here to tell ya, put a can of Pepsi, and a Labatts Blue in front of anyone who's never been exposed to the marketing of either beer or soda, and they'll pick the Pepsi in a taste test 10 times out of 10. Take that to the bank.

And to keep this on topic (somehow), i'll point out that i stayed away from buying a Bose because of this very thread. Went with Orb's Mod2 all around and couldn't be happier because of it. Thanks to all who steered me away from Bose.Your narrow minded opinion is ridiculous. When I'm at home, by myself (or with my wife), and I decide to have a beer, it certainly has absolutely nothing to do with being cool, nor any expectations of feeling the effects of the alcohol. That leaves one and only one reason why I choose to drink it. I like the taste.

Just because you don't like the taste, please don't be so ignorant to believe that everybody shares your opinion. I think asparagus is disgusting. Should I believe that my wife hates the taste and that she eats it simply because she's been lead to believe that eating asparagus makes her cool? I somehow doubt that I'm the only one who drinks beer simply for the taste.

jlaavenger

03-14-08, 11:10 AM

I have always thought that they should be sued for false advertising. After all, they claim good sound quality, which is an outright lie.:eek:

I remember they used to say you could blow a bose speaker. Is was a big selling point. When I was younger and had blow out beer buster parties every weekend I'd go through Pioneer and Kenwood Speakers left and right. There was one other brand that got frequently replaced as well but I can't remember right now. It was a big name brand though. JBL I think. Best Buy saw a lot of returns from me in my youth.

DamageMcRamage

03-14-08, 11:10 AM

Bose Beer, try some today!

It comes in small, wife friendly cube like cans that will be a hit at cookouts and parties.

Direct reflecting carbonation ensures that when you open yours, it will be heard all around the yard.

Only $199.99 per six pack!

For nutritional information, please see back of can where we refuse to list the specs.

*Caution! Tab is made of cheap paper.

:D

wherryj

03-14-08, 02:16 PM

gunbunnysoulja

03-14-08, 02:49 PM

biffva

03-14-08, 03:11 PM

People drink beer not because it tastes good, but because, in addition to it's ability to get us drunk, it's marketed as being "cool". The "adult" thing to do. The same marketing ploy as what's used to sell cigarettes. You wanna convince yourself it tastes good, then hey, knock yourself out.

If this is an accurate depiction of your experience, I strongly encourage you to spend some time beyond the confines of your trailer park. There's a big world out there waiting for you! :)

penngray

03-14-08, 03:37 PM

You go on the internet, call someone a dumb butthead, and ask if I'M a kid? Classy.

Classy, I dont care about classy, you are the one posting an idiotic opinion about beer.

You simply dont have much taste for different things in this world and maybe you should keep that foolish narrowminded opinion about beer to yourself because you are 100% wrong. Do you notice how many posts think you are just a fool?

For 16 posts.....thats pretty good. Maybe you should try a new forum :D

Hey, it took me atleast 500 post before someone thought I was an idiot :D :D opinion just vary online but atleast I have contributed to the AV science world as much as I can.

Now just go away, I do think we are classy enough for you. I will have my guinness, you can have your pepsi in a bar because you are not of AGE yet :D

btw, gotta love a BOSE thread that never dies :D

cyphrex

03-14-08, 06:43 PM

BOSE= B.lown O.verpriced S.peakers E.verytime

ickabod665

03-14-08, 07:03 PM

Now just go away, I do think we are classy enough for you. I will have my guinness, you can have your pepsi in a bar because you are not of AGE yet :D

Gee, next think you know, you'll be ragging on me for spelling something wrong through a typo or something. Have at it there, tough guy.

A few thoughts and i'm done. First, there's a reason beer is universally regarded as an acquired taste. Things that taste good, taste good. Period. You don't need to learn how to like them. Beer is not one of those things. "Gee, let me drink it for a few years, then i bet i'll just love it." Whatever.

Secondly, i'm getting a bit of a chuckle over the offense you're all taking over this. I'm guessing if someone were to suggest chocolate ice cream was crap, or pretty much anything else you all like was crap, i wouldn't hear a peep out of any of you. But beer? Circle the wagons. Interesting, that. Could it be you're all afraid of being exposed for the suckers you all claim people are who purchase Bose speakers? I'm just sayin'....

Cyrano

03-14-08, 08:22 PM

This thread should be a sticky. :cool:

biffva

03-14-08, 08:38 PM

A few thoughts and i'm done. First, there's a reason beer is universally regarded as an acquired taste. Things that taste good, taste good. Period. You don't need to learn how to like them. Beer is not one of those things. "Gee, let me drink it for a few years, then i bet i'll just love it." Whatever.

I do hope you're done because you've throughly demonstrated your ignorance concerning taste. Go to school:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taste

Since you're so adverse to bitterness (it's not the beer that you don't like, it's the bitterness), it's also safe to say that you don't appreciate umami either.

Two rules about someone who doesn't appreciate bitter & umami:

1. Don't let them cook for you.
2. Don't let them order dinner for you.

Oh, and a third that's pertinent to your rants in this thread:

3. Don't let them order a beer or a cocktail for you.

gunbunnysoulja

03-14-08, 08:59 PM

http://www.sir-name.com/images3/BOSE.jpg
http://garyclocks.com/FileExchangeJPEGS/bose.jpg

P.S.- These are real.

Raymond Leggs

03-14-08, 09:07 PM

afwjam

03-15-08, 08:21 AM

gunbunnysoulja

03-15-08, 02:59 PM

WOW. all this talk of Pepsi vs beer and nobody has brought up the fact that Pepsi is the Bose of soda? You will get a much better taste and bang for you buck with a comparably priced can of Coke!:cool:
Now excuse me as I go back to finishing my ice cold Becks.

lol, I wouldn't know if Coke is better than Pepsi, since all I drink is San Pellegrino, Panna, and Saratoga bottled water.

Now that i think about it, would those be the Bose of water? :)

imromo24

03-15-08, 08:56 PM

I have always thought that they should be sued for false advertising. After all, they claim good sound quality, which is an outright lie.:eek:

Actually they advertise that they sound superior to the speakers in a TV. which is the truth...but

nothing gets worse than TV speakers,

so great, they are slightly better than the worst speakers you can buy!

imromo24

03-15-08, 09:03 PM

Using Beer companies to describe the difference between Bose and Good speakers is incorrect.

You would need to say that Budweiser costs $7 a bottle at the bar while guinness costs $3.50 a bottle.

That is not true, so saying you can't beat bose for less money is wrong also. Eat it!

imromo24

03-15-08, 09:11 PM

Second

dean-l

03-15-08, 11:24 PM

If you just want speakers that "fill" the room with sound, I suppose they are OK.

But if you care about channel separation, sound stage depth and high quality reproduction.

No. Just no.

Never see Bose in any audiophile mag.

My friends and I used to joke about Bose all the time.

Raymond Leggs

03-15-08, 11:33 PM

with the compression in most Cd's Bose thrives because the Shill highs and muddy bass from the Bose Acoustimass work with the shrill highs and muddy bass of some CD's sound good onthe bose. :p

unclepauly

03-16-08, 02:14 AM

unclepauly

03-16-08, 02:18 AM

Classy, I dont care about classy, you are the one posting an idiotic opinion about beer.

You simply dont have much taste for different things in this world and maybe you should keep that foolish narrowminded opinion about beer to yourself because you are 100% wrong. Do you notice how many posts think you are just a fool?

For 16 posts.....thats pretty good. Maybe you should try a new forum :D

Hey, it took me atleast 500 post before someone thought I was an idiot :D :D opinion just vary online but atleast I have contributed to the AV science world as much as I can.

Now just go away, I do think we are classy enough for you. I will have my guinness, you can have your pepsi in a bar because you are not of AGE yet :D

btw, gotta love a BOSE thread that never dies :D

too many smilies and post count means jack

unclepauly

03-16-08, 02:21 AM

lol, I wouldn't know if Coke is better than Pepsi, since all I drink is San Pellegrino, Panna, and Saratoga bottled water.

Now that i think about it, would those be the Bose of water? :)

any water that you pay for is the bose of water

gunbunnysoulja

03-16-08, 03:49 AM

any water that you pay for is the bose of water

Ever see the movie "A Civil Action"? :)

unclepauly

03-16-08, 05:11 AM

a while ago but I live in the city where these things don't happen. If I was rural I would definitely buy clean water. You win.

paulwozniak

03-16-08, 03:29 PM

afwjam

03-16-08, 04:33 PM

"Pop" is a Northern thing. Nobody says soda up here. And a Coke is a Coke here, you want a 7-up, better says so, otherwise you're getting Coka cola.

Thats not true, its a mid west thing. I grew up in ohio and we said pop, went to school in new york and quickly changed to soda.

drunkpenguin

03-16-08, 05:18 PM

I built a dedicated room when I built my house for a HT. No windows, accoustically treated with absorption, base traps, etc etc. Spent several thousand dollars on speakers, receivers, projectors, screens. Fine tuned it til I went nuts and you know what pi$$ed me off more than anything? The weekend my mom flew in to visit and while demoing the room she asked me "wow this sounds great did you buy a bose system?" I nearly drop kicked my own mother!!! But it made me realize that all that hard work, all that research, all that education I gave myself to create a great sounding room was really for my own benefit. Nobody else cares. Everybody thats watched a movie in there has been blown away. But when asked if they would ever consider doing something like that the answer is always "maybe if I hit the lottery some day".

cajieboy

03-16-08, 05:55 PM

drunkenpenguin, don't feel alone, similar experience with my friends & family as well. There are few people around me that appreciate the A/V hobby as we experience on this AVS Forum. The other day my sister phones me wanting to know what speakers I'd advise her & the husband to buy. When I didn't answer immediately, the next word that popped out of her mouth was "Bose?"...my reply was that Bose would be the absolute last speaker on the planet that I'd recommend for them! Maybe it was a little unfair of me because they had visited my home and spotted my Bose clock/radio and Bose portable Acoustic Wave I'd owned for many years. Not bad products at all, but waaaay overpriced. Anyway, I told them I could not really give them a proper answer without knowing more about their budget, particular needs, etc...and that besides, they should demo speakers using their own unique set of ears. Hopefully though, I was able to steer them away from the Bose Marketing Machine!:D

ninefivezero

03-16-08, 07:25 PM

Thats not true, its a mid west thing. I grew up in ohio and we said pop, went to school in new york and quickly changed to soda.

Woah woah woah, lets get some facts here fellas!

http://popvssoda.com:2998/

Caaudiophile

03-16-08, 08:06 PM

DrunkenPenguin,

You absolutely are not alone. We did almost what you did but for a top notch sound system. We got Audio Research tube gear and their CD player, great cables, good set of speakers and so on. Spent effort and time to set up and it was making heavenly music. We did not think anyone would appreciate it so we never turned them on when visitors came over; unless they asked. My uncle came over one day, insisted on hearing the system so I turned it on and his family really enjoyed it. He said it was incredible how he could hear things that were never there on that same CD and how it was as though the band was in the room. Then he asked, "So, have you heard the Bose? They are really good too!".

Ouch! :)

amb7247

03-17-08, 03:42 AM

ChrisWiggles

03-17-08, 09:43 PM

Can of Pop tastes good...WTF are you a kid? Maybe a glass of Wine (Red or White), maybe a glass of 12 year old scotch NEVER on the rocks but when you say a "can of pop" all I can think is that you are dumb-butthead, pimple-nosed kid with no real taste and no idea about the real world and the REAL drinks that people love.

To be honest, I spent some time living in Rome, and while I grew a very deep appreciation for the best in red wine and coffee (OMG, incredible, and sooo cheap!), Coca-Cola was also a pretty incredible experience there. I guess it's made with real sugar, not the corn syrup crap we get here in the States. And I am not a soda drinker at all (and yes, it's f**king SODA! :D ) and almost never ever drink cola, but I shelled out a lot of money to have a can of Coke with fancy meals because it was just sooo tasty. It was more expensive than the water, which was in turn, more expensive than the wine! :)

gunbunnysoulja

03-17-08, 10:29 PM

I guess it's made with real sugar, not the corn syrup crap we get here in the States.

It's actually made with real sugar in alot of other countries. America pays a large premium for sugar, and gets HFCS (High Fructose Cory Syrup) very cheap.

The downside? IMO, HFCS plays a huge factor with American obesity (besides lack of self control). Just look at the negative effects is has with leptin (the hormone that effects appetite regulation and metabolic rate).

unclepauly

03-17-08, 10:37 PM

"Why not bose?" has turned into "avoid HFCS at all costs". Haha bose threads rule.

gunbunnysoulja

03-17-08, 10:41 PM

"Why not bose?" has turned into "avoid HFCS at all costs". Haha bose threads rule.

hahaha.. sorry, my nutritionist days were coming back to me :)

drunkpenguin

03-17-08, 10:55 PM

Personally I like Dr Pepper. I like it even better when I add rum. I like it even better when I add 1 small scoop of vanilla ice cream! I call it the drunk penguin! Yah thats right, I have a drink named after me. And guess what, I aint no pimply teenager either. But I am a dumb butthead! Just ask the old lady! :D

ps wine is good some times. but give up soda? hells no. oh yah back on subject...

bose sucks!

ChrisWiggles

03-17-08, 11:54 PM

It's actually made with real sugar in alot of other countries. America pays a large premium for sugar, and gets HFCS (High Fructose Cory Syrup) very cheap.

The downside? IMO, HFCS plays a huge factor with American obesity (besides lack of self control). Just look at the negative effects is has with leptin (the hormone that effects appetite regulation and metabolic rate).

The other downside is that it tastes gross. Almost as gross as aspartame and those fake sugars. Those are NASTY. People always ask me if I want gum, I always ask "is it sugar free?" And usually it is. My response: "then I don't want any." :mad:

gunbunnysoulja

03-18-08, 12:03 AM

The other downside is that it tastes gross. Almost as gross as aspartame and those fake sugars. Those are NASTY. People always ask me if I want gum, I always ask "is it sugar free?" And usually it is. My response: "then I don't want any." :mad:

Agreed.

On a side note, obesity, metabolic syndrome, high blood pressure, insulin resistance, heart disease, and diabetes may also be contributed by artificial sweeteners. Zero calories does not mean zero effects.

Check out Susan E. Swithers recent study... Time will tell once they do more studies... :)

http://www.apa.org/journals/releases/bne-feb08-swithers.pdf

Raymond Leggs

03-18-08, 12:11 AM

Lionel is the Bose of Model trains! :p Those hollow transluscent plastic freight cars are so flimsyy :eek: :p

capttwb

03-22-08, 11:02 PM

doitynan

03-23-08, 12:34 AM

Bose cube is the most beautiful speaker in the world. Small but power.

cajieboy

03-23-08, 01:33 AM

Studbike

03-23-08, 01:38 AM

For the life of me I cannot figure out why many prefer a certain brand of automobiles over others, even if numbers based logic shows otherwise.
:)

clearly, you are the most typical of bose customers!

TheEAR

03-23-08, 01:50 AM

Why not B0$e ?

There are so many reasons it is scary.

First maybe because they are very colored,have a frequency response that is not only very limited but with abyss deep ..dips.

Second maybe because the component quality is GARBAGE,The drivers they use are a joke,from sats to the bass module they call...subwoofer.

Third they are very overpriced in context to the competition offerings.

Just look around the net,you have companies that offer you ten fold in quality for less. AV123 being one of these companies.

With the respectable and established good guys of audio there is ZERO reasons to get a Direct repulsive and Acoustic Mess backed B0$e system.

I am late but had to jab the punching bag a bit.

capttwb

03-23-08, 05:00 PM

OK, now you guys all know there are better speakers out there. I have to chuckle about the latest great speaker, they come in favor, then go... you guys know what I'm talking about. It's great to have vast improvement in sound reproduction every couple years. I was pestered to death by my well meaning son, to get B&W's. He said my old Bose 901's just could not compare. I listened to his B&W's, yes, impressive. However he did have to have a B&W 1000 subwoofer. Now my old 901's, you wanted more bass, you just moved them a little closer to the wall, and wow, more bass. Amazing the difference that made. Now however, his B&W's seem to be out of favor with the "audiophile" crowd. Just like his old man's ancient Bose 901's. However I'll never bash his B&W's. They are great sounding speakers in the evolution of sound reproduction. Of course there will be better, if there were not, we would all suffer. Be sure of one thing, the speaker in favor now, will be pass'e in a year or two, this is progress. As far as I can remember, Bose 901's in the late 60's started a great improvement in sound reproduction. Until the 901's, all speaker's produced artificial sound reproduction. In essence they ALL sounded like crap. I'm listening to Barry Cuda ( Key West, FLA local musician ) on my old 901's now as I type this. He sounds as good as he did when I heard him live 20 years ago at "Sloppy Joes" in Key West. As for the current crop of Bose Speaker systems, I can't comment, however the 901's in their time were the best. They still produce very accurate true sound production. If someone disagree's, I'll wager they never owned a pair of 901's. I remember when I had to play 33 rpm records on my turntable, one at a time. Then I bought a reel to reel tape deck, WOW,:D now my computer plays as many songs as I can listen to, ain't progress great...:D

cajieboy

03-23-08, 06:12 PM

I'm sure you like your Bose 901's and they have satisfied your ears & tastes for a long time, but you are wrong that they were the very best when they came out...different yes, but not the best by far. I remember the 901's very well at the time they came out, and they were extremely popular with Ex-Army guys returning home from Nam that got them a discounted pair in the PX. Toeing in a speaker to get better bass response is not a new phenom either. Around the time frame you are referring (approx. 1969, give or take a year or so) I can recall a pair of studio Altec Lancing speakers that I heard in the music room at college that showed me exactly what I had been missing in my music listening. Also, a friend's Dad that was audio hobbyist had a beautiful sounding pair of Wharfedales (est. 1932) that he had owned for a long time. Like I said before, the 901's sounded pretty good in their day...

Raymond Leggs

03-23-08, 11:28 PM

I guess I'll start buying old speakers tha tonly contain "4" fullrange speakers and make my own 901 clones :D

zoney99

03-23-08, 11:37 PM

I guess I'll start buying old speakers tha tonly contain "4" fullrange speakers and make my own 901 clones :D

Yeah. You should. Exactly.

For guys who know what Clark, Shu Lin Kou, Kadena, Tachikawa are (were) yeah, Ray, you should really do just that. Then get back to us about it your imitation 901s.

Have fun. I am.

zoney99

03-23-08, 11:38 PM

tonly

BTW, tonly, yeah, I'm into "tonly" also.

imromo24

03-25-08, 08:36 PM

Yeah. You should. Exactly.

For guys who know what Clark, Shu Lin Kou, Kadena, Tachikawa are (were) yeah, Ray, you should really do just that. Then get back to us about it your imitation 901s.

Have fun. I am.

? Then get back to us about it your imitation 901s. ?

Jim Kiler

04-02-08, 06:07 PM

"Pop" is a Northern thing. Nobody says soda up here. And a Coke is a Coke here, you want a 7-up, better says so, otherwise you're getting Coka cola.

http://popvssoda.com:2998/countystats/total-county.html

Latin-Man

04-02-08, 06:30 PM

My old chemistry professor (smart cookie) from college studied under Professor Bose at M.I.T. He did a little re-search on his speakers and others, well... better sound through research huh? LMAO!!!

Anyways, he pretty much said they suck!!!:eek: and wouldn't even buy them after a big employee-student discount. Now that goofy-expensive-huge-a$$ alarm clock they sell, thats a different thread/story.:D

HTMAN21

04-02-08, 06:39 PM

Latin-Man

04-02-08, 06:47 PM

Does AV123 use a higher grage paper cone than Bose?

Yeah, high grade recycled cardboard vs grocery paper bag:D

WolfsBane

04-02-08, 08:06 PM

Damn , all this time I thought my 40 year old 901's sounded clean, clear and crisp. I fell for all that advertising crap. I guess that is why I like Budwieser, although I prefer Yuengling. I'm a sucker for advertising. Well P .T. said there was one born every minute. For you young guys and gals, that would be P.T. Barnum. : )

The 901, (and the 601 & 301 for that matter), had a specific sound signature parameter and philosophy in mind that identified it to Bose. Direct/Reflect "technology" was a viable technology to consider for serious music listeners at that time. This is not true with the garbage that I see them marketing these days. It may pass as a compromise, at best, for HT applications in small rooms, and no low bass requirements, but they wouldn't come close to touching your 901s for sound quality. Marketing non withstanding, Bose has lost it's way as a company that is interested in producing true audiophile speakers.

joe01880

04-03-08, 08:15 PM

Bose appears to be almost universally NOT recommended on this board.

For a product that is so popular in the mainstream, with what appears to be a decent range of products (cost wise)... Why does everyone dismiss them?

Bose is not recomended by those who can afford to go out and buy whatever they think the next best thing is. It would be interesting to see how some of these people's speakers are holding up 25 years from now.

I for one can tell you that as i type this i am pushing the best part of my Yamahas 110wpc into my Bose AM 5's and 201's and they sound fantastic.

Decide for yourself man!

HTMAN21

04-03-08, 08:42 PM

Yeah, high grade recycled cardboard vs grocery paper bag:D

Little or no difference except cardboard is stronger.

sodmeister

04-03-08, 09:03 PM

for as you see,this is a bit of a touchy subject for me.
i too have felt the sting of this all form,no substance speaker.
okay,no form either.not going to get into what or how much,
but suffice it to say that as soon as i upgraded my A/V system recently,
these really were the missing link,in fact this new equipment proved just how soulless
these speakers really are!
as i have recently posted,i am proudly purchasing all Klipsch Ref.
everything,as to never make this abomination again!!!

imromo24

04-05-08, 08:50 AM

This:
Bose is not recomended by those who can afford to go out and buy whatever they think the next best thing is. It would be interesting to see how some of these people's speakers are holding up 25 years from now.

I for one can tell you that as i type this i am pushing the best part of my Yamahas 110wpc into my Bose AM 5's and 201's and they sound fantastic.

Decide for yourself man!

versus this:

for as you see,this is a bit of a touchy subject for me.
i too have felt the sting of this all form,no substance speaker.
okay,no form either.not going to get into what or how much,
but suffice it to say that as soon as i upgraded my A/V system recently,
these really were the missing link,in fact this new equipment proved just how soulless
these speakers really are!
as i have recently posted,i am proudly purchasing all Klipsch Ref.
everything,as to never make this abomination again!!!

I trust experience.

Richter

04-05-08, 07:33 PM

In their entire history, has Bose ever made any attempt to reverse their public image?

penngray

04-05-08, 07:37 PM

In their entire history, has Bose ever made any attempt to reverse their public image?

You mean the image where they are thought to be a high end sound system?

You guys are aware that anyone on this forum or any other AV forum represent probably less then 10% of all consumers out there? Meaning, what AVSers think, believe, recommend isnt broadcast out to J6P.

BOSE has no reason to change anything unless their quarterly numbers say so! The opinion of the die hard AV crowd doesnt really matter in the real world.

Raymond Leggs

04-05-08, 07:39 PM

I thought this was a dead thread. :rolleyes:

penngray

04-05-08, 07:41 PM

Marketing non withstanding, Bose has lost it's way as a company that is interested in producing true audiophile speakers.

um....I think most companies care about bottom line and increasing revenue. Not actually if they have the best product. Pick the #1 volume sellers in most segments and we might find out that they are all about the money first, product second.

Audiophile speakers take time to build, usually have high cost ratios and volume levels can not match those of mass produced products.

Not defending BOSE, dont care for them but WHO CARES if someone else buys them and WHO CARES if they focus on marketing more then they focus on the product?

As long as the customer does research then they will know the truth. The rest that do not do research, IMO deserve what ever they buy!!

Caveat Emptor!!

lwien

04-05-08, 07:43 PM

In their entire history, has Bose ever made any attempt to reverse their public image?

Why should they? Their public image has made them one of the most successful consumer audio companies in existence. If anything, they should be commended for their marketing expertise.

They have marketed their product to the masses, and have done it VERY well.

Raymond Leggs

04-05-08, 07:52 PM

nutsnbolts

04-05-08, 09:11 PM

Sony makes speakers? Surely you jest.

Richter

04-05-08, 10:03 PM

Sony makes speakers? Surely you jest.

Sony does make speakers.

Fanboyz

04-05-08, 10:18 PM

Sony's speakers are fake B&W's.

david-me

04-05-08, 10:23 PM

Sony's speakers are fake B&W's.

No, Sony is the manufacturer of Divinci, Genesis and Theatre Research
:(

spl_nut

04-05-08, 11:21 PM

Does a person who buys a $$$$$ NAD Integrated amp and a pair of Bose 301's and a sony sub and sits in his or her listening chair and does some dedicated listening make them less a music lover and audiophile?

NAD integrated, pair of 301s, and a SONY sub? You get out much?

MandM

04-06-08, 02:24 AM

No, Sony is the manufacturer of Divinci, Genesis and Theatre Research
:(

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BoseDefector

04-06-08, 03:08 AM

I think anyone has the right to buy whatever sound system they WANT to buy, But I would tell them to look around and sample the cheaper stuff before finally settling with the bose.

If I liked the bose than I liked the bose.

I tried out some sony floor speakers and some of the other brands speakers at the sam e price and I liked the sound of the sony's better.

Does that make me less of a music lover or serious listener just because I am purchasing the sony speakers monday? or the fact I enjoy the sony's enough to buy them?

Does a person who buys a $$$$$ NAD Integrated amp and a pair of Bose 301's and a sony sub and sits in his or her listening chair and does some dedicated listening make them less a music lover and audiophile?

Interesting point you made.

Yes indeed everyone (including yourself) are free to buy anything you want for the love of music.

What really distinguishes one music lover from another is each his/her own level of discernment.

One full time musician may own a Bose system in his home, while another may own a McIntosh. Does that make either of them less of a musician? Nope. It just makes one more discerning over the other..and I bet the more discerning one would probably eb a better and more passionate musician.

As for Bose retailers, being a former insider myself, I know for a fact that the better retailers may sell Bose for monetory gains, while in fact they use High end equipment at home. Many of you might be surprised. (hence my nick- Bose Defector).

While many forumers here might guess, speculate, and some might offer pretty good insights, I actually been there and done it all. And I'm here to blow the lid right off the Bose BS that's plaguing the newbie world.

Bose Insider Fact #1

90% of Bose salesmen don't effective know how to sell non-Bose products. Yet they call thems selves audio specialists. Go figure.

More insider facts to come.

MandM

04-06-08, 03:28 AM

You don't need to be a "Bose insider" to tell what most everyone here knows...Bose sucks.

dman90012

04-06-08, 03:49 AM

Years ago I had a friend over and I put on a movie through my H/K receiver, Infinity satellites and sub (nothing special I know). My friend's comment was that it sounded pretty good. I ask what he had and his answer was a Bose Acoustimass system. He then asked my how much the system cost and I told him less than $1000. He got real silent after that...

2nd story. I met an old college friend at his house and I noticed he had a Bose Acoustimass system in one of his rooms. I asked how he liked the Bose and he replied it was the biggest waste of money he ever spent. His next comment was it had no bass and the subwoofer was really a midrange. It was hard not to laugh.

If it has no highs and no lows, it must be Bose....

imromo24

04-06-08, 08:08 AM

Acousti-mess

(coined, unless coined before)

penngray

04-06-08, 11:06 AM

Bose Insider Fact #1

90% of Bose salesmen don't effective know how to sell non-Bose products. Yet they call thems selves audio specialists. Go figure.

lol, give us something that isnt obvious.

90% of ALL salesman for any product simply know their product and not really the whole industry they are in.

A good salesman is someone that can simply sell a product period, if that means they can just sell BOSE then great, WHO CARES if the salesman is an audiophile. If I was a shareholder in BOSE I would simply care that the guy sold X units. I dont care if he knows squat about anything else.

This is about money, money, money. Those who think its actually about audio are just throwing their personal preference into the mix which means nothing to the bottom line.

penngray

04-06-08, 11:15 AM

What really distinguishes one music lover from another is each his/her own level of discernment.

Is that just purely subjective in nature? level of discernment? You are saying the BOSE person is blind to the obvious?

Thats a different way to spin ignorance ;)

How about the Musician that KNOWS BOSE insides are pretty crappy BUT still loves the BOSE? That person isnt deceived at all, that person knows 100% what is going on and they just enjoy the sound.

Its funny that if someone likes something that the many thinks is crap, that person is written off as ignorant about the products out there.

We have people that think 5K speaker wire sounds better (placebo at its best) and we have people that do enjoy their BOSE....maybe we should all get over all of this and realize its none of our business what they buy and enjoy? Do we call both ignorant just because they CHOOSE those products?

Now, Im all for posting scientific facts, posting better options but once a decision is made its not for anyone else to judge. Of course those who judge, should be pick apart too....lets see pictures of their cars, houses, girlfriends and so on. Then we can be subjective about many of their dumb decisions and call them ignorant ;)

cajieboy

04-06-08, 11:59 AM

Penngay:
What would you call a person who meets a con man, then realizes this con man is after his money, and then not only gives him the money but tells people how great the experience??

lwien

04-06-08, 12:13 PM

Penngay:
What would you call a person who meets a con man, then realizes this con man is after his money, and then not only gives him the money but tells people how great the experience??

I would call that person someone who came across a great salesman.

cajieboy

04-06-08, 12:14 PM

I would call that person someone who came across a great salesman.

:D:D:D

Richter

04-06-08, 03:13 PM

penngray

04-06-08, 05:03 PM

What would you call a person who meets a con man, then realizes this con man is after his money, and then not only gives him the money but tells people how great the experience??

lol, all of the above..

Great salesmen are con men (IMO), they BS you to sell you something.

The buyer is the person that HAS to see through it all, its buyer beware in my world. If you can sell snow to an eskimo, kudos to you :D

lwien

04-06-08, 05:09 PM

A GREAT salesman is one who can high-pressure you into buying something WITHOUT you realizing that you have been "sold" anything.

BoseDefector

04-07-08, 07:09 AM

Is that just purely subjective in nature? level of discernment? You are saying the BOSE person is blind to the obvious?

Thats a different way to spin ignorance ;)

How about the Musician that KNOWS BOSE insides are pretty crappy BUT still loves the BOSE? That person isnt deceived at all, that person knows 100% what is going on and they just enjoy the sound.

Its funny that if someone likes something that the many thinks is crap, that person is written off as ignorant about the products out there.

We have people that think 5K speaker wire sounds better (placebo at its best) and we have people that do enjoy their BOSE....maybe we should all get over all of this and realize its none of our business what they buy and enjoy? Do we call both ignorant just because they CHOOSE those products?

Now, Im all for posting scientific facts, posting better options but once a decision is made its not for anyone else to judge. Of course those who judge, should be pick apart too....lets see pictures of their cars, houses, girlfriends and so on. Then we can be subjective about many of their dumb decisions and call them ignorant ;)

Many Bose owners have heard Diana Krall sing. But none of them have really had Diana Krall send tingles down their spine. Be it in stereo or 5.1 surround.
I've actually witnessed in a Bose showroom ignorant first timers actually gasp as a top of the line jewel cube make a dismal attempt to reproduce convincing vocals while a boxy conventional British speaker aced in that critical midrange department. Not one of the non-inclined first timers could put their finger on it, but they knew immediately that the jewel cubes were seriously flawed. It just failed to connect.

Discernment? Experience? I really wonder.

I suppose when it is broken down & pointed out, anyone will be able to tell and discern.

A valuable learning experience I feel everyone thinking of buying a Bose should go thru.

Chu Gai

04-07-08, 07:41 AM

What would you call a person who meets a con man, then realizes this con man is after his money, and then not only gives him the money but tells people how great the experience?? A socialist, teacher unions, elected public officials.

penngray

04-07-08, 10:07 AM

A valuable learning experience I feel everyone thinking of buying a Bose should go thru.

I dont think so actually, people dont know the truth about so many things in life why should that be different about Bose. Heck there are FAR more important things in the world to learn about then how speakers truely sound.

ignorant first timers

see, thats the problem with audiophiles and why the real world thinks they are just freaks, loners, losers and guys that are fat, ugly and smell (dont shower because they listen to weird music 24/7) :D Yes, that is a stereotype and not really true but no different then thinking first timers are ignorant...and Im trying to prove a point!

Im not defending BOSE either at all but audiophiles just dont get it!! The average and normal person is not like them and more importantly they NEVER want to be like them. The average person also doesnt give a crap about Diana Krall either.

BOSE obviously pleases 1000s and 1000s of people, what is the return rate? People have to justify that satisfaction by simply calling them ignorant....geesh.

I do tell friends that BOSE is way overpriced but if they buy it and enjoy it, I DONT THINK OR CALL THEM IGNORANT. Its just audio stuff and the rest of us dont live and die by it and we definitely dont listen too Diana Krall! ;)

drunkpenguin

04-07-08, 11:21 AM

Who the hell is Dianna Krall anyways? :confused:

PULLIAMM

04-07-08, 11:24 AM

Who the hell is Dianna Krall anyways? :confused:

A jazz singer and pianist. Also Mrs. Elvis Costello.

penngray

04-07-08, 11:38 AM

A jazz singer and pianist. Also Mrs. Elvis Costello.

and she is Canadian!! :D

Fanboyz

04-07-08, 04:09 PM

No, Sony is the manufacturer of Divinci, Genesis and Theatre Research
:(

Why isn't therem a criminal investigation, WV speakers are like against the law,

ImagePree

04-07-08, 05:00 PM

HTMAN21

04-07-08, 08:42 PM

Why isn't therem a criminal investigation, WV speakers are like against the law,

No van needed for Bose cubes. A VW would hold several $ dollars of those.

Be on the lookout for the thumping VW.

Fanboyz

04-07-08, 09:06 PM

brandonnash

04-07-08, 10:25 PM

I went to the Bose store here in Nashville a few months ago. I listened around and kept the comments to myself when, out of nowhere, the salesman asked if I wanted to see their demo. Intrigued, I agreed to go. They open up a separate room off to the side that's a dedicated theater. The presentation was put together just like their advertising.

Presented like they are the end all brand and nothing else comes close. The sound was too loud for what they wanted to achieve, bad doesn't sound better louder. The treble was rolled off at the top end, the sounded like it was coming from a cardboard box...no depth, not well defined, and the midrange, I'm sure due to the "reflecting technology" and the room was very overpowering. The sound itself overall had very little resolution. Detail was nearly non existent. It sounded like cheap loud PA speakers played through a long elementary school hallway with the speakers on one end and the listener at the other. I didn't like the sound at all.

The system I have at home consists of the first Athena audition series bookshelves and center channel, a RCA subwoofer picked up at radio shack on clearance, and a 5 year old bottom of the line Pioneer receiver. My listening room is my living room which is half open to the kitchen, has a stairway going upstairs, bare walls except a couple pictures and a carpeted floor. That system cost me total less than $600 and sounded much better than their top of the line system. Much much better than the best Bose system.

I went in with a semi-open mind hoping that I could find at least something nice to say about them. The only thing good I can say about Bose speakers are that they are small. Nothing else.

BoseDefector

04-08-08, 02:38 AM

I dont think so actually, people dont know the truth about so many things in life why should that be different about Bose. Heck there are FAR more important things in the world to learn about then how speakers truely sound.

see, thats the problem with audiophiles and why the real world thinks they are just freaks, loners, losers and guys that are fat, ugly and smell (dont shower because they listen to weird music 24/7) :D Yes, that is a stereotype and not really true but no different then thinking first timers are ignorant...and Im trying to prove a point!

Im not defending BOSE either at all but audiophiles just dont get it!! The average and normal person is not like them and more importantly they NEVER want to be like them. The average person also doesnt give a crap about Diana Krall either.

BOSE obviously pleases 1000s and 1000s of people, what is the return rate? People have to justify that satisfaction by simply calling them ignorant....geesh.

I do tell friends that BOSE is way overpriced but if they buy it and enjoy it, I DONT THINK OR CALL THEM IGNORANT. Its just audio stuff and the rest of us dont live and die by it and we definitely dont listen too Diana Krall! ;)

I think you are missing the point I'm trying to make.

We, the discerning, all know the impact Bose marketing (not Bose speakers) has made on the uninclined, unsuspecting and undiscerning masses.

It's a fact that many of these ignorant freshies have not had the opportunity to compare the sound of speakers. It is also a fact that majority sales men do not know know how to or are not willing to conduct such comparisons. (In fact I was the one who initiated and crafted that experiment while I was working with Bose - without the knowledge of my boss, of course). Bose strictly disallows that.

And I've done that several times with totally new, lay people who claimed they knew nothing about sound, only to see the expressions on their faces when the "veil" was lifted.

Given the opportunity 10 times out of 10 - men & women swore they heard the difference and had second thoughts of Bose. Yes, in that short little exercise, I practically undid the 100 million dollar Bose Marketing directive. Was I fired? No.

Case in point -People just need to be guided & shown. Otherwise they'll lose themselves in the marketing hype hammered down their throats by powerful corporations like Bose. The problem is not many take the effort to guide & show.

So let's not assume that people don't give a damn and that they've got better things to do. The very reason they're in an audio showroom (Bose or any other)is because people do care and they do have aspirations for better things. And they wish to make knowledgeable buying decision. And Bose spends millions buying people's minds.

Can't that be undone? Of course. I did it.

Do people give a damn about how Diana Krall sounds? It's been proven that once they hear the "truth" nothing else will move them.

BoseDefector

04-08-08, 09:57 PM

I personally feel Amar Bose had a good idea with a Stereo system with an expansive sweetspot. but when his 901 system turned out to be bad, as opposed to improving his speakers he sued Stereophile for libel and built an empire predicated on a flawed design. Had Dr. Bose stuck with making a better product he probably could have been like Mirage or DefTech.

Here's what I tell customers and all who's willing to listen.

There's a reason why headphones sound so good. With headphones, it's just you and the music-No room to mar the sound.

Every sound engineer, acoustician and academic knows what happens when the room gets in the way of recorded playback. The natural ambience of the recording is not properly and accurately reproduced. The point here is, too much sound reflectivity is bad.

If the Bose Direct/Reflecting method holds water, then studios will be using it. But there's a reason why sound professionals.

Recording studios (the place of reference) take much effort to "reduce" or "limit" the room out of the playback equation where fidelity is required.

Bose, on the other hand, through it's Direct/Reflective method, does the opposite by deliberately drawing the room into it's playback equation through reflected sound. Guess what happens when you do that?

It's been documented that countless customers have been utterly disappointed when they began to listen to their Bose Direct/Reflecting system at home for the first time. Hardly the same as what they heard back in the showroom.

As the digital age makes better sound more accessible to the masses, people begin to hear the difference and begin having a better point of reference. The truth begins showing up the flaw of the Direct/Reflecting design which had wool pulled over everyone's ears in the 70s & 80s.

So what does Bose do? Introduce Adapt IQ room calibration to enable their systems.

Like hypocrites, they jump on the "truth bandwagon" & preach that the room is a hindrance to good sound (like as if they know what good sound is, being the culprits of inaccurate sound themselves) and their advance Adapt IQ calibration will supposedly make a Bose lifestyle system sound good in any room.

In my experience, it has yet to bring the listener closer to the original performance. The Bose system is still marred by it's fundamental design limits through it's design flaws. Dynamics and scale are still lacking and that "Hole" in the midrange is way too prominent.

All customers need to do is venture, explore & compare.

And all sales people need to do is be accomodating, knowledgeable and witty in their demonstrations & and Bose will lose sales.

BoseDefector

04-08-08, 10:12 PM

Personally, being called ignorant in any subject or field should not be looked at as a negative. All noobies are ignorant and it's a fact. It's when they start to educated themselves, they start rid themselves of the tag.

Yup! You're right. An even worse term would be "illiterate". Just like computer illiterate.

But in my sales pitch to customers, I prefer to use the word discerning. Especially when lay people (doctors, lawyers, professionals) come across as if they know everything. Questioning their level of discernment by asking them to point out things they can't in a sound or video demo immediately becomes a humbling experience for them.

BoseDefector

04-13-08, 02:31 AM

A GREAT salesman is one who can high-pressure you into buying something WITHOUT you realizing that you have been "sold" anything.

Good sales men doesn't have to pressure. He/she just needs to entice, provoke & evoke you emotionally. No pressure needed. He just needs to go into your mind and screw with it. It's when you feel you must have what he's selling, that's when you've been sold.

Marketers are the masters of this art and Bose marketing is one good example.

fishhead90

04-13-08, 05:41 AM

i hear a lot of negative talk about the bose systems and as an owner of a lifestle 48 i can honestly say that i disagree with a lot of people on this thread. now there are a few issues i think one should take into consideration before casting me aside as a "typical bose user who dosent know any better". 1st i got the system at a sick deal . . . $1300.00, so the purchase didnt hurt half as much as it does others. second, i have an onkyo 908 set up in my bonus room so i have one of the best htib's in its own price range (and many others) to compare it to, and third im not a TOTAL noob to home theartre equipment so i have a good basis for unbias judgment. i have had it now for about 5 months and here is my review on the product. . .

the sound quality is good / very good. there is no question that this system sounds better with movies than with music especially for me since i listen to alot of hip hop and R&B. the satelite speakers and their small drivers are just to small get a SERIOUSLY loud midrange output from them. youll need to push the treble into the higher end. having said that, i should let people know that i like a lot of treble especially with my movies. not so much as to where my ears blead but enough to give an action flick some punch. the biggest selling point was the size of the speakers and the styling of the entire unit. im also big into interior design and i wanted a higher performance component that will not only blend with my livingroom, but add to it. i love the way the unit looks and i really hae not been able to find anything that compares (i have looked at sony, mirage, and samsung but as far as looks go, bose still stands on top for me).

now on the other hand a few things i dont like . . . the interface for setting things up on the menus, and this may sound a little weird but . . . its TOO easy! i feel like the guys over at bose had to really dumb this system down for all the old farts interested in layin down 3-4g's (depending on what day of the week it was!) for this system. i personally like to be able to do alot of tweaking on my system and im just not getting that with this system. another thing i dont like is the lcd display. i feel like at that price point i wanna see something a little more impressive... color maybe . . . also a big short comming is the dvd video processing. it is pretty darn bad! i have a blu ray player so who cares but still . . . if they invested a fraction of what they are charging into beefing up the dvd player . . . problem solved!!

i can go on for days but all in all, i have to say that if i could turn back the hands of time and do it all over again . . . .I WOULD!! I KNOW IT SOUND CRAZY BUT I WOULD!! i think its a really good sounding unit with some decent features and the wifey can use it better than she drives her own car (which aint sayin much lol!!) and it looks amazing in my living room. when friend come over and we are watchin Casino Royale on my samsung LN-T 5271 with the bose lifestyle 48 system cranked to about 65 (max is 100 but 65 is as loud or louder than most movie thearters) . . . they are in heven and so am i. but anytime they tell me that they wanna get one from themselves i tell them its probably a better idea to pick up smoking crack cuz it will cost the less!!! =)

i realize that i got a 1 in a million deal and that is why i can probably enjoy the system without crying myself to sleep every night but think if some people stop hating on the system so hard then they might realize that it still does perform better than the vast majority of htib's out there . . .even if it is priced like some section 8 housing!!!

take it easy people.

rallen

04-13-08, 09:07 AM

Monty_Python

04-13-08, 10:47 AM

Why doesnt Bose publish frequency response on their speakers, I've always been suspicious of that.:cool:

zoney99

04-13-08, 10:58 AM

Problem is Fishhead90, for the same money you spent, you still could get something that sounds a lot better. Most people here aren't into HTIBs if you haven't noticed.

Still, you are happy with it and that is all that matters. Enjoy.

I could give a shiite less about HTIB. However, the AVS forum has:

2780 Threads - 26316 HTIB Posts

Don't confuse having fun with audiophilia/hardware junky/money to burn

Bose, like every other company, is in business to make money. It's obvious to all of us that they took a sharp turn from audiophile quality products and focused on the almighty dollar.

So fine, hate 'em. Don't buy 'em, I don't and I don't recommend Bose (or HTIB) to my friends, either.)

BUT, I also don't belittle my friends that have Bose or HTIB.....we're too busy
drinking Grey Goose and having fun to worry about such minor shiite.

fishhead90

04-14-08, 03:09 AM

i 100% agree with you rallen that for the price u can definatly get more performance. the one thing that kinda sold me on the bose is the combination of good looks and better than average sound quality. by the way zoney99 . . . the grey goose comment is hilarious!

PULLIAMM

04-14-08, 08:53 AM

Why doesnt Bose publish frequency response on their speakers, I've always been suspicious of that.:cool:

Because their frequency response sucks, and they know it. Would you intentionally publish embarassing information about yourself?

imromo24

04-14-08, 06:28 PM

as an owner of a lifestle 48 i can honestly say that i disagree with a lot of people on this thread. ...i think one should take into consideration before casting me aside as a "typical bose user who dosent know any better"...i got the system at a sick deal . . . $1300.00...so i have one of the best htib's in its own price .. have had it now for about 5 months and here is my review on the product. . .

the sound quality is good / very good...their small drivers are just to small get a SERIOUSLY loud midrange output from them. ....the biggest selling point was the size of the speakers and the styling of the entire unit... i wanted a higher performance component that will not only blend with my livingroom, but add to it.

now on the other hand a few things i dont like . . . i feel like the guys over at bose had to really dumb this system down for all the old farts interested in layin down 3-4g's... i personally like to be able to do alot of tweaking on my system and im just not getting that with this system. another thing i dont like is the lcd display. . . . also a big short comming is the dvd video processing. it is pretty darn bad!

i can go on for days but all in all, i have to say that if i could turn back the hands of time and do it all over again . . . .I WOULD!!

i realize that i got a 1 in a million deal and that is why i can probably enjoy the system without crying myself to sleep every night but think if some people stop hating on the system so hard then they might realize that it still does perform better than the vast majority of htib's out there . . .even if it is priced like some section 8 housing!!!

take it easy people.

That is a terrible post. You say more bad things about them than good, and you think you got a deal???

penngray

04-14-08, 09:42 PM

i got the system at a sick deal . . . $1300.00...so i have one of the best htib's in its own price .. have had it now for about 5 months and here is my review on the product. . .

lol, you should spend more time on here to find out how good $1300 can be!!! AVR $399, 5.1 for under $1K will BLOW away that Bose system and you get a REAL amp and processor instead of the crappy BOSE stuff.

NOTE!! I have a BOSE GS123 system in my bedroom because it has no footprint and my wife is happy, it replaces TV speakers and that is it, its not bad in doing that. I won the damn thing so I would never pay $1K for it but I dont think I will replace it either. Unless I design and inwall system which I thought about when we built the house 2 years ago.

Next house build I will have a very nice inwall system in my bedroom.

fishhead90

04-14-08, 11:18 PM

lol, you should spend more time on here to find out how good $1300 can be!!! AVR $399, 5.1 for under $1K will BLOW away that Bose system and you get a REAL amp and processor instead of the crappy BOSE stuff.

NOTE!! I have a BOSE GS123 system in my bedroom because it has no footprint and my wife is happy, it replaces TV speakers and that is it, its not bad in doing that. I won the damn thing so I would never pay $1K for it but I dont think I will replace it either. Unless I design and inwall system which I thought about when we built the house 2 years ago.

Next house build I will have a very nice inwall system in my bedroom.

i auctually spend alot of time on almost all threads of the forum . . .im actually planning on selling my onkyo htib and upgrading to the deftech procinema 1000 with an onkyo 705 reciever. there is no possible question in my mind that the deftech will blow away my bose, but as i said before, the bose will stay in the living room purely because of the aesthetics of the entire unit. i feel it performs very well for day to day use and looks good doing it! the bose never has been and never will be designed for the serious audiofile like most of us here on this forum. its designed for the less concerned user who perfers simplicity to high end, ultra-tweakable performance. my brother gave me his GSX123 when he moved and i sold it almost immediatly (after i finished crying about its lack of performance).:D

fishhead90

04-14-08, 11:21 PM

lol . . by the way is bose resorting to new marketing techniques . . .giving away their products cuz they cant sell them in their price bracket anymore lol. this is like the 5th time ive heard of someone gettin some sort of a bose system for free!!;)

NicolasKL

04-15-08, 02:26 AM

mwolfe38

04-15-08, 02:51 PM

saying you've got one of the best HTiBs is like saying you're dating the thinnest girl at the fat farm

LMAO
But seriously a HTIB isn't that bad if thats all you can work with. I bet there are some deceont ones out there but i don't think they have the name BOSE printed on them.

rvclarke

04-15-08, 03:58 PM

fishhead90

04-15-08, 05:50 PM

Saying you've got one of the best HTiBs is like saying you're dating the thinnest girl at the fat farm, or the smartest girl in the special ed classes. We're talking about, what, 700 bucks for 7 speakers, a sub, a DVD player, and a receiver?

The 48 performs better than most of the HTiBs out there? It cost FOUR GRAND at bestbuy.com for poops sake, I'd hope to christ you can give the thing a little better endorsement than saying it manages to outperform the majority of skanky little HTiBs that cost 3000 to 3500 dollars less than it does.

You're defending it but ultimately your argument damns it even further. If the 48 normally cost what you paid for it (ie, if Bose cost about 1/4th of what it actually does) AND if Bose didn't spend 30 trillion dollars a year convincing my grandmother and every other Readers Digest lover that they're the greatest speakers ever made, I don't think you'd see thousand page threads bitching about them. They'd just be a company making (probably still slightly overpriced) speakers that trade some SQ for a lot of WAF, which is a reasonable and necessary niche to fill.

i think i might have wrote what i was trying to say wrong . . .i was trying to say that my ONKYO 908 is one of the best htib's out there, especially for the price. not the bose. i was trying to rule out the idea that i only like my bose system because i dont know any better.

there is no question that bose is priced way too high for most people on this forum to see the value. just like any other market name branding commands respect and value. the same reason people are willing to pay hundreds of thousands for a mercedes benz when they are among the worst in reliability and customer satisfaction after a purchase. the same way people are willing to pay up to twice as much at the grocery store for brand name products even though they are identical to generic brands which are even produced at the same factory and made with the same materials.

surely we can all agree that when you buy a $100,000.00 car, it does not COST nearly that much money to the manufacturer. it costs them a fraction of that but the little symbol on the front of the car adds all the extra value that they need to charge that price. . . and you know what, god willing when the time comes for me to be able to make a purchase like . . . that i certianly would do it!

i personally dont really subscribe to the belief that bose is worth what they regularly charge for their systems, but i do know that this system did fit what i wanted for my home and if it impresses a few people who know nothing about home audio . . . so be it lol! as i said before, ill focus on quality sound where it really count in my bonus room/home thearter. the bose gives me everything i need for my living room.

fishhead90

04-15-08, 05:58 PM

Okay, pretty simple to see Bose is heald in very low regard. But, Thereare some points that work very well for me. Small and very simple head unit(ie one button) Remote control multi room use. It seems all the opinions fall upon the speakers. How would the system (48III) preform, with a good powered sub and good speakers? Sorry but bose has some really good ideas as far as size and ease of use. everything I have looked at requires a EE degree and the speakers have been very far from UNobtrusive.

Ron

the problem most people have is that you can find much better quality for the money. in my opinion as a bose owner, if you cant find an insaine deal on the system (2 grand or less), then there is no way you can justify the purchase. 4 grand is just too much for this system. if your looking for some small satelites, 1st check out mirage, infinity, sony, or Definitive Technology. they all sell small satelitie speakers with simmilar sizes to the bose for a fraction of the price. and much more performance (except for sony . . .they kinda suck but they have speakers that are tiny as HELL!!).

rvclarke

04-15-08, 06:12 PM

1. Small head unit size
2. simplisity of use
3 remote thru wall
4. multi room, out by the pool (hence the thru wall remote)

These are the points Im looking for. Is there a head unit that does all of the above? Yeah there are a million units that are big and bulky

lodit

04-15-08, 09:37 PM

Let's put it this way:

Bose is the:

1. BEST Mass marketer of the products they manufacture...nobody else comes close.

2. BEST Producer of product for those that care more about style than substance (if we're looking from a true audiophile standpoint, and the obvious, inescapable physics-based "science of sound").

3. BEST Company of which we wish we all owned a percentage.

4. Best rip-off on price/performance for speaker systems...

But every industry has its lucky bastards...they just happen to be for sound reproduction.

They obviously don't care about that they're being labeled as such...so why does everyone else?

If there was a better competitor for their market niche, with better sound and similar form factor, and also a wicked marketing campaign to rival them.....well, that dream is still in process, isn't it?

People will buy what they will buy given what they believe is a sound(sic) decision.
If people were as knowledgeable as they were affluent, Bose would be out of business.

But that just isn't the case...such is life.

You think Kobe Bryant knows KEF from Bose speakers?
You think Shaquille O'Neal knows McIntosh from Bose amplification?
They have advisors to handle their purchases, who would probably then have feedback from market researchers to tell them what to buy.

My point is, the wealthy don't have time to do the research, they depend on the salesmen to feed their ego with "the best of the best."

Every minute of their time spent on anything but their profession doesn't make them richer. So, why bother doing the research?

With Bose's marketing being what it is, it gets in their heads that they must have Bose.

We shouldn't hate Bose for what it has found: a segment of society that is willing to buy what they have to offer.

Instead, in the interest of competition, should we not aspire to create a company with a better product?

Yet to date, there is none...that has had any impact against the Big Bose Machine.

I'm hoping that Tweak City Audio, AV123, eD, and any other number of ID speaker companies come up with a qualified challenger, so that we may experience progress in this segment of the market.

We've been beating this dead horse for far too long. My arms are getting tired...who's next to hit?

rvclarke

04-16-08, 10:01 AM

Lodit, See you're just like BOSE, a whole lot of marketing words to sell your point ! You could have saved your whipping arm and just said NO! Lol:)

Well I have been doing lots of reading/ research it looks like I will be going with the new Onkyo about $900 and speakers are still up in the air,
I figure I have a list of six all in the $ 1k -$1.5K range that are all agreed upon throught this and about 4 other boards.After market through wall remote, but still have to conquer the 2nd station, pool area.
Even at $2500 Im still $1500 under the bose and should have a much better sounding system.

Bose sure has a great idea, at least 3/4 of it compact simple. Im sure the competitiors can see that as well as you and I. If the just filled in that last 1/4 sounds great, They would have a hit! Sure seems like common sence.
Everyone else just puts to many "extras" in their products, filters settings decodeing modes LFE switches on and on and on. The people like me that lean the bose direction, and I bet more lean my way than your's(the right way). Becuase we simply just want to turn it on and go wow.

LIKE that Cadiliac commerical: " When you turn it ON; Does it return the favor? "

RON

penngray

04-16-08, 10:30 AM

the problem most people have is that you can find much better quality for the money.

Please rephrase :D

the problem most people have is that they dont have time to read online forums and they dont have relationships with anyone that has audio knowledge to help them find much better quality for the money.

Now...I can stop there...but lets RANT SO MORE....

I dont blame them, I dont blame my banker for owning BOSE then he comes to my house and see what I have, he always says wow! He still goes home and enjoys his BOSE because HE DOES NOT WANT TO BE LIKE US, he likes the current sound and that is cool.

The problem with audio people is that they THINK they know what is best for everyone. They THINK if that person likes a sound that isnt accurate then that person is a fool (its probably the other way around, the fool is the eccentric who searches for acuracy!!). It seems the audio crowd looks down on BOSE owners which I think is silly because the last time I checked some of those BOSE owners have better cars, better houses, more money any actually have women.

I had a choosing, I pick their side (I did already) instead of the kid with a room at his parents place or the student, or the mid aged guy with a house full of audio equipment, no family, etc, etc. because they have their priorities in the right spot, audio gear is just audio gear and shouldnt be something worshipped.

Honestly, If you are worshipping your audio equipment then you have really no life, no girlfriend or wife and people are laughing behind your back on how weird you must be :D

Some may ask well why do I hang out at AVS if Im not a fan of audio. I hang because I love the science, Im a pure DIYer and I like to know what is out there! I can still hang and not agree with the audio crowd and what is the best for everyone.

penngray

04-16-08, 10:33 AM

Everyone else just puts to many "extras" in their products, filters settings decodeing modes LFE switches on and on and on. The people like me that lean the bose direction, and I bet more lean my way than your's(the right way). Becuase we simply just want to turn it on and go wow.

lol, true...except its everyone on AVS wants to tweak, EQ, decode something...that is not even remotely normal in the real world. People ARE like you and just turn on equipment and listen to movies or music.

The world IS NOT FUSSY, audiophiles are.

PULLIAMM

04-16-08, 10:48 AM

Honestly, If you are worshipping your audio equipment then you have really no life, no girlfriend or wife and people are laughing behind your back on how weird you must be :D

Why do you equate simply wanting a system that sounds good and isn't a total ripoff (thus, by definition, something other than Bose) with "worshipping" audio?:confused: The small amount of time on the internet that it takes to find a system vastly better than Bose at a fraction of the price is hardly going to take away from a person's other priorities.:rolleyes:

Shinobiwan

04-16-08, 11:21 AM

lol, true...except its everyone on AVS wants to tweak, EQ, decode something...that is not even remotely normal in the real world. People ARE like you and just turn on equipment and listen to movies or music.

The world IS NOT FUSSY, audiophiles are.

Its called a hobby. ;) Take a close enough look at any pass time and it starts to look as if the participant is taking things a little too seriously. However impressive results only come from being serious.

I'd say the majority of members on here are happily married, some with kids, and have a healthy social life. Even if they don't, who cares anyway?

rallen

04-16-08, 12:51 PM

It's a fine line between insanity and hobby.

PULLIAMM

04-16-08, 12:56 PM

It's a fine line between insanity and hobby.

Not only is that true, it is true for all hobbies, not just audio.:)

rallen

04-16-08, 03:06 PM

Yup. And since I've got several hobbies, is that like a multiple personality disorder?

George SSSS

04-16-08, 03:41 PM

I recall the old joke:

Question: What's the range of Bose speakers?

Answer: Depends on your arm.

schticker

04-16-08, 04:47 PM

I recall the old joke:

Question: What's the range of Bose speakers?

Answer: Depends on your arm.

lol I could probably hit one at 500 yards.;)

I think the thing that we need to remember is that Bose is the home version of the factory car stereo. Functional, easy, listenable but not fabulous. In that regard, while it may be a ripoff from our standards and materials-used POV, it still (unfortunately) holds enough brand cache that it's an acceptable addition to a home for most that requires no brain to use. And frankly, that appeal to technophobes is precisely what makes it successful.

We always think of things in terms of raw performance. I respect the marketing and business aspects as well, and hold Bose in high regard based on those principles.

SLCentral

04-16-08, 04:55 PM

So I work in a Magnolia, and after closing, I decided to hook up a pair of the Acoustimass 10's to our A/V switchboard. Switching between them and the other speakers in the room could not have been any more entertaining.

Raymond Leggs

04-16-08, 05:12 PM

I prefer my speakers to be big and visibele even if they are too much for the room. that impresses the ladies you should see their jaws drop when I show them the tower of power! :D

nate132

04-16-08, 05:18 PM

I'm not saying bose is good, but i'm going to have to say they have a good thing going. They appeal to people who aren't really familiar with home audio, (such as my mom), and emphasize their small compact designs. We have one, and while it sounds like complete ****, it's nice that it doesn't take up all that much space at all.

HT_n_Me

04-16-08, 05:44 PM

I owned a Bose system for several years. It was used to play back sound from the TV and thats about it. It was purchased by my wife while I was away and she did it as a surprise for us, so I went with it. Actually as a TV speaker system it was okay, it didn't do anything different in the decoding department, it sounded the exact same no matter what was played and you could rarely if ever get good content out of the center channel ; always "what did he say?". I retreated to my back porch/screen room with a couple of bookshelf NHT speakers, a sub and an older NAD stereo receiver and thats where I listened to music. Lots of good times there but its sort of seasonal.

Well the damn Bose finally got nailed by an errant spike during a power outage several weeks ago. Fried the sub/amp combo - I knew if I left it plugged in long enough and constantly on something had to happen. The Sonic Gods heard my pleas and trashed it. Yay!

I'm still hooking it all up but I have a whole new system, not top of the line audiophile stuff as my budget just wouldn't support it but I was able to cobble together something much much nicer than a Bose system. My family thanks me for it too. All the time.

I had the Pioneer plasma already but recently added a B&W system anchored by 703's (sub, center and surrounds - I can only do a 5.1); Outlaw amp pushing lots of juice, NAD T175, and a Power conditioner (don't wanna fry the new stuff). I had an Oppo 980H so I'm shopping for Blu-ray now and a pure stereo CD/SACD player - probably a Marantz Sa-8001.

I don't think this is a snobby look down your nose system. Its 1000x better than the old Bose and truly can't even come close in comparing. We probably paid a bunch for the Bose but it did last a long time for what thats worth. I've heard many other friend's HTiB systems that sounded much better but hey if you have Bose ears, you go with what you got.

I don't think it's a matter of being fussy, or anything. Its just a matter of being nice to your ears.

fishhead90

04-16-08, 07:09 PM

I prefer my speakers to be big and visibele even if they are too much for the room. that impresses the ladies you should see their jaws drop when I show them the tower of power! :D

there you go again with you big speakers lol:D. u must meet some interesting women cuz no matter homw much A/V crap i have, ive never heard a girl comment on it!

lodit

04-16-08, 08:21 PM

there you go again with you big speakers lol:D. u must meet some interesting women cuz no matter homw much A/V crap i have, ive never heard a girl comment on it!

Perhaps his reference to the "tower of power" isn't his speakers...

In which case, he's posting in the wrong forum...

:p

Raymond Leggs

04-16-08, 08:49 PM

Perhaps his reference to the "tower of power" isn't his speakers...

In which case, he's posting in the wrong forum...

:p

LOL :p

Despoiler

04-17-08, 12:11 AM

I was just at a bar that had a full Bose setup. Very large bar. Tall ceilings. They had these 7x6" cubes with a single horizontal port across the bottom. All the cubes were spaced about 8ft apart on every wall. There were about 8 per wall if not more depending on the wall. There was some sort of large flat bass maker in each corner that was a bout 3ft long and came off the wall about 6". This setup was god awful. The sound sucked so bad. There were HUGE gaps in the frequency range. I was hearing songs I'd heard a 100 times before an didn't even realize it because the sound was so muddy and inaccurate. The bass was boomy and equally inarticulate. It wasn't underpowered nor was it not able to get loud. It just sucked. All I kept thinking about was how much they probably paid for this setup and how not even average the sound was.

So yah, that's why not Bose.

Chu Gai

04-17-08, 02:26 AM

Keep drinking and while you're at it, wonder if the reason you're not scoring has something to do with evaluating sound quality at a bar.

rnrgagne

04-17-08, 11:03 AM

I had the opportunity to hear a Bose Professional setup which was quite intreguing this weekend at a hockey tournament banquet. There was a stand-up comedian with an acoustic guitar that did parodies of different songs, and he was actually a decent musician and impressionist. The Bose set up he was using was a single six foot high mono line array about three inches wide with two bass modules located near mid/front of the room. The amp was built into the speaker stand. I found it quite intriguing because this thing literally filled the room, which was at least 100' x 50', plus I thought it sounded very decent - the acoustic guitar and vocals were as natural sounding as anything I've heard in that type of venue and it didn't seem strained at all filling a room that size. Of course we're talking one voice and one guitar, hardly a monumental task, but none the less impressive compared to some of the clunky systems I've heard in similar applications.
I don't know if Bose Professional is a completely separate division from the consumer side but on the strength of what I heard I can see why the artist chose that set up.
The only other Bose system I've heard that sounded decent was also a professional system, but it was at a peeler bar - so I might have been distracted.. or drunk..

penngray

04-17-08, 11:08 AM

I don't know if Bose Professional is a completely separate division from the consumer side but on the strength of what I heard I can see why the artist chose that set up.
The only other Bose system I've heard that sounded decent was also a professional system, but it was at a peeler bar - so I might have been distracted.. or drunk..

I think they are separate, there are lots of very good BOSE professional systems out there.

The other thing about these types of forums is they are JUST the SAME as Mac users vs Microsoft. Go to a Mac user site and they BASH Microsoft ALL THE TIME. You can not bother having any logical arguement because they are simply Microsoft haters.

AV forums are just the same, they have many members that are simply BOSE haters. It doesn't matter what the reasons why they hate, they JUST HATE.

lucky once again that the real world decisions dont revolve around spending days on end listening, days on end research buy silly audio systems ;)

Despoiler

04-17-08, 11:41 AM

Keep drinking and while you're at it, wonder if the reason you're not scoring has something to do with evaluating sound quality at a bar.

Wow where did this come from? I actually don't goto bars to pick up women. That's what trolls do. Also, I'm a DJ. Sound is an integral part of my life. I really can't not notice how things sound.

Raymond Leggs

04-17-08, 06:23 PM

The bose professional Products Live up to their slogan. I think Bose has put the Consumer-level market on the back burner to do Pro-Audio where the actually do make a good sounding system. could be why some people Buy the Larger Bose Pro-speakers for HT use in their custom surround setups :D

rvclarke

04-18-08, 12:00 AM

Well you all talked me out of the Bose system. After all my reading here and other forums I went in to get a onkyo and paradigm speakers. Listened to a bunch and came home with nothing.
Im sold on my speakers,hands down I think awesome, Kilpse cinema 10 best sounding to my ear at $1200 they sounded better than many higher priced ones, just great. Now the problem,

Yamah rxv2600= 999
DENON AVR-3808 CI $1275
ONKYO TX-SR805-$999 BUT BIG

I dont think I can go wrong with any one of the three but a little imput now would be great. Remember it's your fault, Bose was easy nowi t's not so easy.

BTW if you guys have a better suggestion, bring it on, just remember wife says speakers have to be around 4" x 4" i already cheated up to 6x8 dont push it, I like where I sleep. Im not an audiophile just have what I think is a good ear and an appreiciation for good sound, but of course I liked my Bose until I met you guys:)

RON

penngray

04-18-08, 05:32 AM

Yamah rxv2600= 999
DENON AVR-3808 CI $1275
ONKYO TX-SR805-$999 BUT BIG

check the receiver forum on this stuff.

The new Yahama's are out the V663 is a HUGE steal at under $500, I see no difference between that and the Yahama V2500 or the Denon series processing wise but I use separate amps anyways. I suggest you start out at the lower end, the new pioneers are coming out soon and they will be awesome too. I would not spend $1K on an AVR if I were you.

PULLIAMM

04-18-08, 08:01 AM

AV forums are just the same, they have many members that are simply BOSE haters. It doesn't matter what the reasons why they hate, they JUST HATE.

While there may, unfortunately, be a few people like that, most of us who bash Bose do so because we have listened to their products and therefore know that they suck.:cool:

Shinobiwan

04-18-08, 10:57 AM

lucky once again that the real world decisions dont revolve around spending days on end listening, days on end research buy silly audio systems ;)

Aren't you one who indulges in research for silly audio systems?

wilson_jay

04-18-08, 11:07 AM

I've been lurking for a while, and hate for his to be my first post, but seriously, what's the deal with the over-the-top obtuseness in seeing that Bose provides significant value to many consumers?

Is it a need to put others down to feel good about yourselves? Trying to build a pathetic sense of kinship through attacking a common enemy? Or, is it simply parroting the "cool kids" in the hopes they'll let you into their "audiophile" circle-jerk?

(All together now ... ohhhh ... ohhhh ... no highs ... ohhh ... no lows ... ah ah ah ... must be Blose ... ohhh ... not a real subwoofer ... ohhhh ... rigged demo ... ohhhh ... cheap paper ... ... ohhhh ... don't publish specs ... ripoff ... ahhhHHHHHHHHH ... INTELLEXUAL! INTELLEXUAL! INTELLEXUAAAAALLLLLLL!!!!!)

Opinions are spouted as fact. Memes are regurgitated as wisdom. But not once, has anyone in this entire thread posted a link to an HTIB product (at any price) with the combination of ergonomic design, aesthetic appeal, convenience of purchase, and ease of setup and use as does Bose.

Regarding sound, a large chunk of the population doesn't listen to movies, TV, and music at 70-90dB, and has no desire to do so. Bose provides excellent, full sound at more common listening volumes for these people, and the direct/reflecting technology really does fill the room with an even level of sound and clear dialog. Not too loud in the front, and not too soft at the sides or in the back.

Sure, if you want to go louder, you want bigger drivers than Bose cubes - but what if you don't want to go louder? What if you don't want to buy multiple boxes from multiple manufacturers from multiple stores? For those people, Bose provides a quality experience, and allows people to set it up in their own home to try it out. (Aren't you folks always saying home auditions are the best?) If they don't think it sounds good, they can simply package it up and bring it back to a B&M store, which apparently happens infrequently enough to make Bose a success.

Blasst

04-18-08, 11:22 AM

wilson,

Welcome to AVS!:)

PULLIAMM

04-18-08, 11:22 AM

Bose provides excellent, full sound at more common listening volumes for these people,

You were doing fine until you wrote this line and eliminated your credibility. Bose does not provide "excellent" sound (or even acceptable sound) at any level.

dlenart25

04-18-08, 11:30 AM

American beer tastes like shandy. Try a proper drink- Murphy's, Guiness, paint stripper etc ;-)

I disagree. I know of a couple fine brewmasters at North Peaks brewery in Traverse City Michigan that make some kick ass American Lagers ;)

lne937s

04-18-08, 11:45 AM

billybob_jcv

04-18-08, 02:32 PM

I think it's amazing that the first post by a long-time lurker is to a thread that has stayed alive since December of 2003. It certainly takes you a while to become indignant...

As has been said many (many!) times in this thread, Bose preys on the audio ignorant with very good marketing & very good sales presentation. The product itself, in any real comparison listening tests and/or measured response tests, performs at a level with systems priced at 25%-50% of the Bose prices. They certainly aren't alone in using marketing to sell products that are a poor value - in fact, one could argue that without products like Bose, the rest of the speaker mfrs would not look like such good values!

wilson_jay

04-18-08, 04:19 PM

Blasst - thanks for the welcome. I expect it will be one of the few in this thread. Sometimes I like to toy with the "know-it-alls" in various forums who are flippant and mean while giving bad advice to people. I get to have a little fun while adding valuable insight for people who really need it (but don't get it from the self-proclaimed authorities who seem to know what sounds good to everyone).

lne937s - I was referring to HTIB systems in my post, but thanks for posting the speaker links and trying to respond with substance. Again, you can't just walk into a store, see the Orbs or Missions, bring them home and try them. If you don't like them, they're less convenient to return and you incur the hassle of time and shipping costs (potentially both ways) and waiting for your $$ back. Plus, you still have to find a receiver/amp, DVD player, and potentially other items to have feature parity depending upon which Bose you choose.

billybob and PULLIAMM - jerk away boys, jerk away. Difficult not to notice that you couldn't meet the challenge. You're losing YOUR credibility (do you have any around here anyway?) with your wild absolute statements. Tell me: what HTIB product (at any price) has the combination of ergonomic design, aesthetic appeal, convenience of purchase, and ease of setup and use as does Bose? C'mon, how 'bout a link?

Didn't think so.

BloggingITGuy

04-18-08, 04:27 PM

HTIB systems cost far less than Bose Accousticrap (tm) systems do. The typical Bose 5.1 setup typically costs $1500-2000 retail.

Show me any HTIB systems that cost that much?

Oh and those little Accoustimass cubes? They use frickin paper cones...as in untreated paper cones. The cheapest possible speaker material...so why are they so expensive?

You can get THX Select systems for just a little bit more than Bose systems and there's no comparison...none. The THX Select systems will blow away any Bose system. Period.

Or you can get some AV123 x-ls speakers. 5 of them costs less than $750 I think. Even with out a sub those will blow away any Bose system.

Bose is overpriced crap, pure and simple. The only reason why a lot of places push it are commissions and let's face it. Sales people are not going to fight with a customer that comes in to the store and says "I want a Bose speaker system". Not unless they (1) don't care about their jobs or (2) work in a store that doesn't carry Bose.

penngray

04-18-08, 04:29 PM

Aren't you one who indulges in research for silly audio systems?

I love the science behind it actually and I have a BOSE system in the bedroom (as posted before it was free and the wife is very happy, I didnt do the in-walls this time). Yes, I do enjoy this silly hobby and I actually still thinks its a kind of silly hobby but its my hobby so I dont worry about it.

I have friends with different systems, I never once sit there at their place THINKING man that sucks. You see, I dont get all freaked out by good or bad sound systems. Content and the social aspect is more important to probably 95% of the people out there.

This is a silly hobby when you start to think that others are ignorant because they dont care about a certain sound and its a silly hobby when anyone BASHES someone's system just because it isnt that accurate, etc, etc.

Its silly only when you actually think your opinion matters more then the guy who bought the BOSE system. I dont think that way at all, I do know more about audio then the average person but I DO NOT know what goal of that individual is at all.

You guys do realize sometimes people dont buy audio to achieve ultimate bliss? To some people its just as important for it to be hidden or match the room.

People have different priorities and I wish members here wouldnt throw BS posts out there thinking THEIR priorities (ie SQ and accuracy) are more important then someone elses priorities. Its reeks of arrogance and the last time I check some of those who post BASHING have no reason to be arrogant about ANYTHING they own ;)

I guess if someone wants to BASH a product that others enjoy then I would say lets see what else that person owns so I can BASH it. Then they know how others feel, BASHING is simply WRONG but people get away with it online because they are hidden.

I have posted pics on everything I do and own. Im not hidding behind anything others bash but I havent seen a pic of what they own? Lets see how great the things they own are, lets pick apart their crappy cars, crappy rooms and so on. Its stupid isnt it but they want to BASH then I guess its fair game!?

Yes, my biggest pet peeve is bashing what someone owns!!!

BloggingITGuy

04-18-08, 04:34 PM

You guys do realize sometimes people dont buy audio to achieve ultimate bliss? To some people its just as important for it to be hidden or match the room.

Since it's impossible to achieve ultimate bliss without death being involved, I don't think that's the problem here.

The problem is that Bose makes a lot of money based purely on marketing and distribution.

If you want to hide speakers in your room, there's right ways to do it (in-walls) and wrong ways to do it (Bose).

And if all you are looking for are a set of speakers, then go out spend $500 or whatever on one of those HTIB systems and call it a day, but don't waste your money on Bose thinking you are getting a high quality product.

penngray

04-18-08, 04:35 PM

Orb- $799 for the base system
http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?Pa...n=Custom&ID=22
http://www.orbaudio.com/
http://www.orbaudio.com/index.asp?Pa...WPROD&ProdID=2

Mission M-cube $699.
http://www.mission.co.uk/system.php?...=8&sector_id=4
http://www.amazon.com/Mission-M-Cube.../dp/B000ARISWU
http://www.lussoluxury.com/content.a.../Reviews_.html
http://www.superfi.co.uk/extras/Miss...Review-HCC.pdf

good systems, none of which are sold at your local store. Please remember the majority of people do not shop online for speakers and do not read AV forums.

So while your point is very valid it means nothing to most people who do not every see these products.

Its not a good arguement either to say they should research. BOSE has crappy accuracy, BOSE has a sound people like. Its okay for far more households out there then just using TV speakers which MOST use!!!

Lets realize who the audience is, what they are using, what they have access too and what their priorities are. They simply choose an easy solution, who really cares??

You are not forced to listen to their system daily are you guys so why BUST on them?

penngray

04-18-08, 04:38 PM

HTMAN21

04-18-08, 04:41 PM

Oh and those little Accoustimass cubes? They use frickin paper cones...as in untreated paper cones. The cheapest possible speaker material...so why are they so expensive?

You can get THX Select systems for just a little bit more than Bose systems and there's no comparison...none. The THX Select systems will blow away any Bose system. Period.

Or you can get some AV123 x-ls speakers. 5 of them costs less than $750 I think. Even with out a sub those will blow away any Bose system.

Bose is overpriced crap, pure and simple. The only reason why a lot of places push it are commissions and let's face it. Sales people are not going to fight with a customer that comes in to the store and says "I want a Bose speaker system". Not unless they (1) don't care about their jobs or (2) work in a store that doesn't carry Bose.

AV123 also uses frickin paper cones.

BloggingITGuy

04-18-08, 04:53 PM

Again, we know this but again does it really matter. The customer satisfaction are pretty high are they not and BOSE is still successful.

Im not defending the SQ, I arguing that SQ is ONLY important to those here the rest of the world does not care as much as you guys think and I honestly dont think they are wrong in having that opinion.

If you care for SQ, research, research, listen and so on, No problem but lets stop assuming what we do is what everyone should do.

Again, I have people with BOSE, they have heard my three different systems and they still like BOSE too...its not that important as you may think

So money isn't important to the people who buy Bose then? That must be the issue since they can get far better systems for a lot less money.

BloggingITGuy

04-18-08, 04:56 PM

AV123 also uses frickin paper cones.

AV123 uses TREATED paper cones, which is a very good material for midranges.

This is not the same thing as UNTREATED paper cones which is what Bose uses in it's Accousticrap (tm) speakers.

BloggingITGuy

04-18-08, 05:00 PM

When it comes down to it, people come to forums like this to learn about what's good.

And you bet that they quickly learn that Bose is not very well respected in the consumer electronics community at all, other than as a company that is extremely successful at selling speakers.

I can't remember who originally said it, but there's a quote that goes something like "making money is easy, if all you are concerned about is making money." Bose proves that every day.

dman90012

04-18-08, 05:07 PM

Bose is fighting physics with their tiny cube speakers. There is a reason why woofers are 8, 10, 12, 15 inches in diameter. It takes that area to generate audible low frequencies. The same goes for midrange frequencies (drivers usually measured from 4-8 inches in diameter). Tweeters are generally 1/2-1 inch in diameter.

Granted there are manufacturers that try to make up the area required by using multiple drivers. One 4 inch driver has an area of 12.57 sq. inches. One 8 inch driver has an area of 50.27 sq. inches. It takes four 4 inch drivers to come close to one 8 inch driver.

Now tell me why Bose lacks lows, highs and is incomplete in the midrange. I've never opened up one of the Bose cubes but I'm guessing they have a single 2 inch driver in each? My friend's Acoustimass bass module has a 5 inch driver in it.

Don't fight the law of physics...

wilson_jay

04-18-08, 05:23 PM

Since it's impossible to achieve ultimate bliss without death being involved, I don't think that's the problem here.

The problem is that Bose makes a lot of money based purely on marketing and distribution.

If you want to hide speakers in your room, there's right ways to do it (in-walls) and wrong ways to do it (Bose).

And if all you are looking for are a set of speakers, then go out spend $500 or whatever on one of those HTIB systems and call it a day, but don't waste your money on Bose thinking you are getting a high quality product.

These are obviously not the words of someone with revenue-driving responsibilities at work. See, the big boys who have to go out in the world to get the money for your company to pay "overhead" like yourself, understand that the value of a product and the revenue it generates is more than just specs and features - it's the entire purchase, use, and support experience for the customer, and the margin and ease of sale for the reseller vs. other products. That's how companies "win" - happy customers and a brand with cachet to drive margins.

Either you're ignorant of how companies make money and how people buy, or are acting as such to make invalid points.

If it's truly as easy as you assert, I'm sure that Sony and Panasonic have more than enough money and relationships to compete with Bose on marketing and distribution with their "superior" products. Wonder why they haven't?

By the way, have any links to one of those $500 HTIB products with the combination of ergonomic design, aesthetic appeal, convenience of purchase, and ease of setup and use as does Bose?

If you can provide a valid answer that question, then you've added value to the discussion.

If not, you can join billybob and PULLIAMM in the circle.

BloggingITGuy

04-18-08, 05:34 PM

BloggingITGuy

04-18-08, 05:36 PM

http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/products/individual/onwall/rm705/

OK so i'ts $600 but close enough. That's still $1000 cheaper than a comparible Bose system and it will sound tons better.

wilson_jay

04-18-08, 05:37 PM

Ergonomic design? Ergonomics has nothing to do with speaker design.

And by the way, ANY HTIB product that you can buy at Best Buy will be just as easy to set up, have the same convenience of purchase, and same aesthetic appeal (as in there is none...same as Bose...the only aesthetic appeal to Bose speakers is that they are small...it's not like they look nice) as Bose and cost far less.
C'mon, pick ONE and post a link. Let's see your Bose killer.

The Polk is a speaker system, not an HTIB. If you add the DVD, receiver/amp, and whatever else is in the Bose system you're referencing, you are WAY over the $500 claim you tossed around.

ChicagoTC

04-18-08, 05:46 PM

BloggingITGuy

04-18-08, 05:52 PM

C'mon, pick ONE and post a link. Let's see your Bose killer.

The Polk is a speaker system, not an HTIB. If you add the DVD, receiver/amp, and whatever else is in the Bose system you're referencing, you are WAY over the $500 claim you tossed around.

Bose does not sell the Accousticrap systems as a complete home theater either. You still have to buy the DVD player, receiver, TV, etc.

Sorry, when I said Home Theater In a Box, I meant that you get 5.1 speakers in a box.

We won't even go into how bad it is to buy an all in one system.

BloggingITGuy

04-18-08, 05:56 PM

C'mon, pick ONE and post a link. Let's see your Bose killer.

The Polk is a speaker system, not an HTIB. If you add the DVD, receiver/amp, and whatever else is in the Bose system you're referencing, you are WAY over the $500 claim you tossed around.

OK, I'm done talking to you...the fact that you think that having a DVD player and receiver all in one piece is acceptable is very telling of your knowledge of home theater.

If someone can't be bothered to at least buy an Onkyo receiver and an Oppo DVD player then they get what they deserve.

wilson_jay

04-18-08, 06:00 PM

This is fun! Pardon me if I'm not up to snuff on the lastest Bose gear but what system do they make that is only $500?

A really processor, but perhaps these speakers are too big for Bosephiles
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000UN44HW

Microcube with at least a semi real subwoofer
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0010Q7U74
Thank you, ChicagoTC. There is no $500 Bose, but the claim was that any $500 HTIB would beat a Bose.

The Sony link would be helpful to someone who is looking for an alternative. Also, I believe that they sell them at Sears, so it can be picked up locally.

See, this is how you're supposed to help people and have a real discussion. Bring up true alternatives.

Has anyone heard the Sony and can compare it to a Bose? Very small speakers. Would anyone expect them to provide comparable or better sound than the Bose cubes and Acoustimass?