3250HD Review - Las Vegas Cox Cable January 2004
I have been using the 3250HD cable box as an upgrade from the 3100HD for a while now and wanted to post a review of it. Because many of the features are software specific, here are the settings on my box from the diagnostic menu. Different regions and systems will be have various versions for different reasons. I think there is a parallel OS from Pioneer that will operate the box, but it is dependent of your MSO.
Diagnostic menu for SA systems available by pressing the "select" button on the front of the box (2-3 sec) until the mail message indicator lights up, then pressing "info". Page up and down for more screens.

SARA and ROM version are listed as 1.52.3.1 - Dated 11/10/03
OS version 3.6.2.1 - Dated 11/10/03
PowerKey Library 3.5.18.3 - Dated 11/10/03
HAL Driver - 1.2.9.2 - Dated 11/10/03
ATI Driver - 1.2.8.0 - Dated 10/31/03
PHAL Driver 3.4.8.0 - Dated 11/10/03

The 3250HD I received was a fully loaded model. It has the following connections:
2 - 1394 ports
1 - HD DVI port
1 - Coaxial Digital Audio Output connector
1 - Optical Digital Audio Output connector
1 - Set of Component HD outputs
1- Set of complete SD outputs with s-video, composite and stereo analog audio outputs
1 - SD RF output

Main Summary of features applicable to this box that I have seen:
1) Analog to Digital audio converter for analog channels below 99.
2) Simultaneous Down sampling of any HD resolution through SD video and RF outputs.
3) Six Resolution selections on HD outputs - 480i, 480i stretched, 480P, 480P stretched, 720P, 1080i
4) Selectable HD outputs from any input resolution to any output resolution(s)
5) Configurable output to use Fixed output, Pass Through, Upconvert 1 SD to 480P and HD to 1080i, Upconvert 2 SD to 480P and HD to 720P
6) Stretch and Zoom modes available on HD channels
7) HD material scaled and viewable while using on-screen menus, info and settings
8) HD captions with multiple setting for font, color size, etc according to the digital captioning standards
9) Selectable side bar shades of gray intensity
10) This version of software fixes the Menu and IPG that were previously only viewable on component outputs - Now all content is viewable on any output. (added feature)

Untested known features:
1) DVI port - Reported active and in use by other members in local area. Disables Analog Component and requires an HDCP enabled set
2) 1394 (2 ports)- Untested, but SA says a software patch will not be available until April 2004

Instructions for Quick Settings to select output resolutions the TV accepts: Done after the box has gotten it's initial download from your MSO. These should be done using the HD outputs for true displays, but may be "falsely" viewed with SD outputs.
1) With power on, press the select button on the box and wait 2-3 seconds for the message indicator to light
2) Press "VOL-" to enter HD select resolution mode - The display will read HdSr - Times out in 20 seconds
3) Resolutions are set as follows: 480i = CH+, 480P = CH-, 720P = VOL-, 1080i = VOL+ and the display will show each resolution as the output is displayed over the HD outputs. Whichever output you select last will be the primary output when going into the setup wizard

Instructions for the Setup Wizard
1) Turn off power then press both the GUIDE and INFO buttons at the same time
2) Choose Easy or Advanced setup - Easy selects 480i and 1080i outputs only - Advanced allows TV type and user selected outputs
3) Follow instructions on the screen to set your output resolutions - READ carefully in advanced mode- If the screen goes blank, it is showing a resolution your TV does not support and you have to disable that output. It will cycle through all resolutions for 30 seconds each if no user input is given.

Output Mode Explanations:
Fixed - Displays all content at whatever resolution you selected, based on what you selected in the wizard. You force the output to a single output and the box scales to that input. Easily changed in the settings menu of the box.
Pass Through - Passes the input signal through to the output with no change, unless you disable certain resolutions. For example 480i in to 480i out, 480P in to 480P out, 1080i in to 1080i out, 720P in to 720P out. If you disable 720P, 720P in will go to 1080i out.
Auto DVI - If you are using the DVI port, you will see this option instead of the Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to the scan rate supported by the TV.
UpConvert 1 - All 480i and 480P signals get upconverted to 480P. All 720P and 1080i signals get upconverted to 1080i.
UpConvert 2 - All 480i and 480P signals get upconverted to 480P. All 720P and 1080i signals get converted to 720P.

Zoom and Stretch Modes:
Stretch Mode: In SD, it takes the 4x3 screen and stretches it to widescreen. In HD it does the same thing, but if the signal is already in widescreen, it stretches it even further, losing about 15% of the sides.
Zoom mode: Zooms the picture in both height and width in both SD and HD modes. Perfect for 16x9 in 4x3 window displayed on a 16x9 channel (window in a window or bars all around)

General Notes:
1) This box is faster than the 3100 when changing channels and virtually anything else.
2) The HD output on component jacks appear just slightly cleaner, but difficult to determine. The SD outputs on component are much cleaner than the 3100 IMHO.
3) Found an issue with the modes converting to 480P that bothered me. When doing a conversion to 480P I noticed the black level appeared to be crushed, resulting in dark scenes almost looking like a negative in some areas, or not enough color depth to show shadow detail. Took me a while to trace it back because I was mostly watching through a HTPC and the conversion from 480i to 480P did not register to me using the s-video output through the scaler. Using a Pass Through
mode cleared up my problems.
4) The unit is physically smaller the the 3100HD

More to add if / when something else pops up - Feel free to post and add your own notes or questions

Link to main SA3250 webpage (http://www.sciatl.com/consumers/Exp3250hd.htm)
Link to SA website 3250 Setup PDF (http://www.sciatl.com/consumers/cablingPDFs/4003114.pdf)

vegggas

Great review!

Originally posted by vegggas
Zoom and Stretch Modes:
Stretch Mode: In SD, it takes the 4x3 screen and stretches it to widescreen. In HD it does the same thing, but if the signal is already in widescreen, it stretches it even further, losing about 15% of the sides.
Zoom mode: Zooms the picture in both height and width in both SD and HD modes. Perfect for 16x9 in 4x3 window displayed on a 16x9 channel (window in a window or bars all around). This is new for HD as this is not the case with the earlier version of the software. Still a cludge to compensate for stupid (and temporary) programming decisions, but maybe Feldon will be happy now. Sorry, couldn't resist! :)

Your unit has what I assume is the firmware upgrade that my cable company claims is coming in the next few weeks (my 3250HD has SARA v 1.50.18.a45). Can you tell me if the newer firmware fixes the on screen guide problem? Is the guide available over S-video, or composite instead of just the component connection?

The on screen guide is viewable on all outputs with this version. This includes the component, composite, s-video, RF and assumably the DVI port all at the same time. The setup wizard and any other menus and graphics are also shown on any output.

Edited original post to say the IPG and Menu bug was fixed to show on all outputs.

vegggas

Hooray, an answer at last, thank you!!!!!

Now I'll have to start bugging Cox here to get the darned thing loaded.

ditto DoubleDAZ:

Thanks for the info veggas! Good to know the ipg bug is fixed.

Perhaps we could make this thread into a SciAtl 3250 FAQ thread. :)

Originally posted by dt_dc
Perhaps we could make this thread into a SciAtl 3250 FAQ thread. :) Well, I'll tell you that review sure qualifies as a FAQ (or at least a Sticky Note for a while). It should be cross-posted in the Reviews section on HDTVoice as an addition to my review of the 3250 way back when they were first released.

Great post Vegggas! Just received my 3250 last week and have been enjoying HD heaven on my projector ever since! Looking forward to more HD channels provided by Cox and watching my Patriots whip up on the Titans next Saturday in all it's HD glory!!!!

Petey

I have this unit. Any bets about when the guide will be HD? You have this beautiful HD picture, then bring up the guide and see this low grade guide display - probably the same one used on SD boxes that ensures proper display on cheap TV's.

Samall item, but still irritating.

Originally posted by vstone
I have this unit. Any bets about when the guide will be HD? You have this beautiful HD picture, then bring up the guide and see this low grade guide display - probably the same one used on SD boxes that ensures proper display on cheap TV's.

Samall item, but still irritating.
The IPG data is usually generated at either the Headend or local Fiber node equipment and sent to the box as needed in real time - hence the interactive part. To generate HD graphics, which would be seperate from SD graphics for all other TV's would require both a major upgrade in equipment and allocation of extra bandwidth. Currently, the box overlays the SD guide data onto whatever resolution you are currently seeing.

vegggas

The guide data is sent from the headend to the stb ... but the stb is responsible for all the formatting and display.

Output Mode Explanations:
Fixed - Displays all content at whatever resolution you selected, based on what you selected in the wizard. You force the output to a single output and the box scales to that input. Easily changed in the settings menu of the box.
Pass Through - Passes the input signal through to the output with no change, unless you disable certain resolutions. For example 480i in to 480i out, 480P in to 480P out, 1080i in to 1080i out, 720P in to 720P out. If you disable 720P, 720P in will go to 1080i out.
Auto DVI - If you are using the DVI port, you will see this option instead of the Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to the scan rate supported by the TV.
UpConvert 1 - All 480i and 480P signals get upconverted to 480P. All 720P and 1080i signals get upconverted to 1080i.
UpConvert 2 - All 480i and 480P signals get upconverted to 480P. All 720P and 1080i signals get converted to 720P.


How can I access these output modes. I found everything else you talked about. I am very interested in the pass-thru mode, because I have a feeling that my Samsung DLP can uoconvert better than this box can. Not sure until I try though.

Thanks for the help!

Originally posted by andwhite1
Output Mode Explanations:
Fixed - Displays all content at whatever resolution you selected, based on what you selected in the wizard. You force the output to a single output and the box scales to that input. Easily changed in the settings menu of the box.
Pass Through - Passes the input signal through to the output with no change, unless you disable certain resolutions. For example 480i in to 480i out, 480P in to 480P out, 1080i in to 1080i out, 720P in to 720P out. If you disable 720P, 720P in will go to 1080i out.
Auto DVI - If you are using the DVI port, you will see this option instead of the Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to the scan rate supported by the TV.
UpConvert 1 - All 480i and 480P signals get upconverted to 480P. All 720P and 1080i signals get upconverted to 1080i.
UpConvert 2 - All 480i and 480P signals get upconverted to 480P. All 720P and 1080i signals get converted to 720P.


How can I access these output modes. I found everything else you talked about. I am very interested in the pass-thru mode, because I have a feeling that my Samsung DLP can uoconvert better than this box can. Not sure until I try though.

Thanks for the help!

Press SETTINGS twice on the remote then scroll down to SET: PICTURE FORMAT.

Petey

Originally posted by andwhite1
How can I access these output modes. I found everything else you talked about. I am very interested in the pass-thru mode, because I have a feeling that my Samsung DLP can uoconvert better than this box can. Not sure until I try though.
Thanks for the help!
Press "Settings" twice to go into the more advanced settings. Scroll up about one page and you should see "Picture Type". Choose the type that best fits your needs.
Note that if you choose "pass through", the STB will not do any conversion as long as you enabled ALL the output resolutions in the "Settings Wizard". The default and basic settings are initially set to 480i and 1080i only. That means, unless you previously enabled 720p, ABC and ESPN will get upconverted to 1080i by default.
Another test is to use the fixed mode. In that mode, all available resolutions can be scrolled through in the first "Settings" menu. You can see how the set handles different resolutions from different formats.

vegggas

Originally posted by dt_dc
The guide data is sent from the headend to the stb ... but the stb is responsible for all the formatting and display.
That actually makes more sense in the residential cable plant. In my world of interactive hotel services, we generate, format then push all the signals from the Headend directly to the TV tuner. The STB only tells the tuner where to go. - I'm currently working on my original explanation for private networks, and I do get confused once in a while:D

vegggas

The only problem with using the Pass Through mode with the Samsung DLPs is that Component 2 and 3 will only take 480p, 720p and 1080i. If you set the box to output a 480i signal, those channels won't come in. You'd have to have the STB connected to Component 1 (which takes 480i and 480p only).

I have the older version of the firmware which only seems to allow you to set the output for all the channels and when I accidentally set it to 480i I had to unhook my cables on the back of my Sammy and switch them over to component 1 in order to set it back to 480p so I could switch back to Component 2 and then set it for 720p. What a pain.

BTW, I really didn't notice a PQ difference no matter if the STB or the TV was doing the converting. If there is one I'd say it is very minor.

Originally posted by rkwochoski
I have the older version of the firmware which only seems to allow you to set the output for all the channels and when I accidentally set it to 480i I had to unhook my cables on the back of my Sammy and switch them over to component 1 in order to set it back to 480p so I could switch back to Component 2 and then set it for 720p. What a pain. I have the older version too, but I believe you can set it up so only resolutions that work are shown as options in the Settings menu. I believe the defaults using the Quick Setup option are 480i and 1080i, but you can add any or all of the others that are available. I have mine set for 480i std, 480p std, 480i wide, 480p wide, 720p, and 1080i. I don't use them much, but they are there is I need them.

FWIW. If you remembered the key sequence (Settings, up 4 times, etc.) you probably could have switched settings without unhooking the cables. I believe I was able to do this when I was playing around. Pressing the right keys in the right sequence gets you where you need to be even if you can't see it. :)

If you get into an unsupported video format, you can also quickly use the front panel:

1. Make sure STB is on
2. Press and hold select key on STB untill Mail light comes on
3. Press the Vol- button (stb will show HdSr on the LED)
4. Press CH+, CH-, Vol+, Vol- untill you get a picture

CH+ 480i
CH- 480p
VOL+ 1080i
VOL- 720p

From:
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/getting_started/HDTV%20Scan%20Rate%20Procedure%204004225%20Rev%20A.pdf

dt_dc. I was going to add that, but I was too lazy to put it all together, thanks.

Another good thing to know (for just about all SciAtl users):

To get into diagnostics screens:
1. Press and hold the Enter button (the button in the middle of the arrow buttons) on the box (on the box, not the remote)
2. After about 5 seconds the mail light will come on
3. Let go of the Enter button
4. Press the Info button (again, on the box, not the remote)
5. A diagnostic screen will come on
6. Press page down (Page -) and page up (Page +) on the remote to scroll through the pages

The above is for boxes running the SciAtl interface. There's a different method for boxes running Pioneer Passport.

Some of the more usefull info includes signal quality measurements ... signal level, S/N ratio, errors per second, etc.

Originally posted by rkwochoski
The only problem with using the Pass Through mode with the Samsung DLPs is that Component 2 and 3 will only take 480p, 720p and 1080i. If you set the box to output a 480i signal, those channels won't come in. You'd have to have the STB connected to Component 1 (which takes 480i and 480p only).


Thanks for the advice!

My whole intent is to have as few uneeded uconversions as possible. Since I think the Samsung just converts everything to 720p, I prefer that to happen once only at the TV...

Hmmm...that stinks. Another reason to be :mad: that Samsung didn't make the component inputs 480i through 1080i. I would like to know their reasoning behind splitting them up like they did. I know hindsight is always 20/20, but it seems really boneheaded.

I suppose I could watch regular 480i channels through svideo and then use the component input 2 (480p-1080i) for hd channels. Of course if the guide isn't working on svideo yet I can't do this until/if Cox in AZ updates the firmware :(

Of course if you say it doesn't make much of a pq difference, maybe the upconvert2 option using the component 2 input is the most appropriate for my TV?

"UpConvert 2 - All 480i and 480P signals get upconverted to 480P. All 720P and 1080i signals get converted to 720P."

is it ok to assume that with upconvert2 that the box isn't doing anything to the 720p signal from ABC and ESPN :confused:

Thanks again for any help!

Greetings,


You guys are lucky !!! My Time Warner Cable affiliate does not even carry the 3250HD yet and has not even heard of it's existence. Of course I went through this when I initially wanted to upgrade from the SA 2000HD to the 3100HD. I eventually got the 3100HD. My TWC DOES have the 3250 Digital box, but not the other. My 3100HD is using the Pioneer Passport software.

My Sony HS10 projector has DVI ( HDCP ) but of course by the time I will be able to take advantage of it SA will be coming out with the next generation box...............arrgghhhhhhh!!!!!!


Regards,

How about audio?
Can anybody confirm that digital out and standard stereo out carry an audio signal for all channels?

This includes digital out for non-hdtv and digital tier channels.
Also, stereo out carrys a stereo signal for the digital tier and hdtv channels.

I just got the DVI-feature patch from TW and now I need to move the stereo audio from 3250 to a/v receiver to the TV. However, I thought there was a reason I made that connection.

Originally posted by gamecock
How about audio?
Can anybody confirm that digital out and standard stereo out carry an audio signal for all channels?

This includes digital out for non-hdtv and digital tier channels.
Also, stereo out carrys a stereo signal for the digital tier and hdtv channels.

I just got the DVI-feature patch from TW and now I need to move the stereo audio from 3250 to a/v receiver to the TV. However, I thought there was a reason I made that connection.

Yes, all channels have sound with any connection.

The 3100HD had to have stereo cables for the analog tier. The 3250 converts the analog tier to a digital pcm stream.

Originally posted by vegggas
Zoom and Stretch Modes:
Stretch Mode: In SD, it takes the 4x3 screen and stretches it to widescreen. In HD it does the same thing, but if the signal is already in widescreen, it stretches it even further, losing about 15% of the sides.
Zoom mode: Zooms the picture in both height and width in both SD and HD modes. Perfect for 16x9 in 4x3 window displayed on a 16x9 channel (window in a window or bars all around) vegggas. Can you tell me if the HD stretch/zoom happens by downconverting to 480i/p? It doesn't seem probable that they could stretch/zoom HD without doing something like that. TIA.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
vegggas. Can you tell me if the HD stretch/zoom happens by downconverting to 480i/p? It doesn't seem probable that they could stretch/zoom HD without doing something like that. TIA.
My box does indeed do the stretch/zoom modes while keeping the HD resolution intact. The TV still reports 1080i input unless I force the Component to 480i/p. Also note that the downconverted image at 480i is not stretched or zoomed, but remains in the format you chose in the setup wizard.

vegggas

vegggas, thanks for the quick reply. I'm turning green with envy over here.

what s/w do you have to be on to have the pass-through option? also how do you find the s/w version? i found it once before but i've slept since then :)

Originally posted by kkramer25
what s/w do you have to be on to have the pass-through option? also how do you find the s/w version? i found it once before but i've slept since then :) See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=343367

Originally posted by kkramer25
i found it once before but i've slept since then :) That is one of the funniest quotes I've ever seen, I'll have to make a note of it. :)

Anyone gotten the coax audio to work? My receiver did coax on my old Apex, but not with the sa box. It won't go into dolby digital vai analog connections.

Thanks,
Greg

Coax works fine with me. I get DD 2.1 HD channels and PCM for analog channels. The box does not do DD encoding for ananlog channels (the old SA3100HD doesn't even output digital audio for ananlog channels).

I don't know what you mean by get DD via analog connections. You can't get DD via analog connections. You need digital connection, either coax or optical.

i finally got my update. but i have some questions... when i have the STB set to pass-through and my 4:3 projector (infocus x1) set to S-Video, the content changes with the format. ie 4:3 content shown in 4:3, HD content shown in widescreen etc... the STB shows the res as 480p, 480i, 1080i etc. when i switch my PJ to component (vesa), the content is all shown in 4:3.. is this suppose to happen. i would think it should format correctly using either output. also the # button now changes the resolutions not the aspect, but when i change the SET PICTURE to FIXED it reverts back to aspect control...

thanks for any input...

This may be a little off topic but you guys seem to be pretty knowledgeable about SA boxes.

On the SA3100HD setup menu, there is an item called Audio Range and the choices are Wide, Normal and Narrow. Does anyone know what this setting sets and the reason for making any of the choices?

On my setup, I am using both the audio right/left for my TIVO and VCR and the Digital Coax out for my Home Theater receiver.

Sometime's I have a hard time understanding soft dialog, sounds like garbled mumbling and can't decide if its the program, the setup or I'm just going deaf.

Thanks

I get nothing from the coax connection. I wasn't sure if anything needed to be enabled on the box to get the coax to send a signal.

Thanks,

Greg

Going by my 3100HD, go to the settings menu Audio:Digital Out and select Dolby Digital.

If that doesn't do it, then check or replace your digital coax cable.

Also make sure your receiver has its digital audio turned on.

Unfortunately the 3250hd doesn't have that setting, at least not by pressing the settings button on the remote. The receiver seems to identify the source as it lights up the dts indicator, but I don't get audio.

Greg

I can put mine in 480i, 480p, or 1080i (my TV doesn't do 720p), but how do I do 480i streched? What I would like to do is record the streched 480i (via s-video) to DVD-R to be able to play back as anamorphic widescreen. Unless this is not possible. Thanks.

David

dszlucha. It's amazing how many different resolution options everyone seems to get when they go through the setup process. I have 1080i, 720p, 480i/p std, and 480i/p wide. The funny thing to me is that the 480i/p std's give me a wide screen image whereas the wide's give me a vertically elongated image. When I record a 1080i HD program to my VCR, I get a downconverted widescreen image with top/bottom bars and fairly good PQ. Have you tried recording an HD channel with an HD image to see what you get on your DVD-R?

Haven't recorded it yet, but I'm sure it will look great. Just wanting to go the next step to see if I can do anamorphic widescreen.

Originally posted by abramsky
On the SA3100HD setup menu, there is an item called Audio Range and the choices are Wide, Normal and Narrow. Does anyone know what this setting sets and the reason for making any of the choices?

On my setup, I am using both the audio right/left for my TIVO and VCR and the Digital Coax out for my Home Theater receiver.

Sometime's I have a hard time understanding soft dialog, sounds like garbled mumbling and can't decide if its the program, the setup or I'm just going deaf.

Thanks
The Audio Range choices are for the Dolby Digital output signals and they refer to the digital "Dynamic Range". A Wide Dynamic Range will render audio that will go from the faintest audio level of a whisper at an extremely low level to a thundering boom at ear-shattering levels. This gives great impact to action movies but calls for a good audio setup to properly be able to hear normal dialog without blasting the speakers during loud scenes.
Narrow Dynamic range, keeps the lower volumes at a higher level, while muting the higher level sounds to a lower level. This way, whispered dialog is not that much more quiet than an explosion and all sound levels are "Narrowed" to a certain level.
I don't know the real numbers, but think of it something like this at a 33% Standard Volume Level for the same scene-
Using Narrow Dynamic range:
A whisper is 45db - An explosion is 85db = "Narrow Range" of audio levels

Using Wide Dynamic Range:
A whisper is 15db - An explosion is 105db = Wide Range" of audio levels

vegggas

Unfortunately the 3250hd doesn't have that setting, at least not by pressing the settings button on the remote. The receiver seems to identify the source as it lights up the dts indicator, but I don't get audio.
---------------------
abramsky Going by my 3100HD, go to the settings menu Audioigital Out and select Dolby Digital.
If that doesn't do it, then check or replace your digital coax cable.
Also make sure your receiver has its digital audio turned on.
---------------------
gregoryperkins I get nothing from the coax connection. I wasn't sure if anything needed to be enabled on the box to get the coax to send a signal.

The 3250 does have that option in the second level of the settings menu, about 1 or 2 pages up. If your DTS light is coming on, you may have your Digital Out option set to PCM instead of Dolby Digital. The boxes do not decode DTS, but do decode various DD (2.0, 2.1 through 5.1) signals very well depending on aired content. Your receiver may interpret the PCM signal as a false DTS signal. Try forcing your receiver to not use DTS if the setting on the box do not work.

vegggas

Originally posted by kkramer25
i finally got my update. but i have some questions... when i have the STB set to pass-through and my 4:3 projector (infocus x1) set to S-Video, the content changes with the format. ie 4:3 content shown in 4:3, HD content shown in widescreen etc... the STB shows the res as 480p, 480i, 1080i etc.
The S-Video output is automatically set to downconvert to SD 480i 4x3 material regardless of the actual resoution and aspect. 16x9 content will still show in a letterboxed format with bars on a 4x3 window. The res descriptions are a reflection of what the component outputs are showing.

Originally posted by kkramer25
when i switch my PJ to component (vesa), the content is all shown in 4:3.. is this suppose to happen. i would think it should format correctly using either output.
I think your component outputs are set to 4x3 instead of 16x9. If you liked the widescreen mode, go into the initial setup and change it to that. To keep the box from stretching 4x3 material, turn OFF the widescreen modes and/or keep the box set to passthrough mode.

Originally posted by kkramer25
also the # button now changes the resolutions not the aspect, but when i change the SET PICTURE to FIXED it reverts back to aspect control...
thanks for any input...
Fixed mode will stay in whatever resolution you set in the menu regardless of actual resolution. If set to 480i, an HD channel at 1080i will show downconverted to 480i. Since you have manually set a fixed resolution, the box expects that you only want to change the aspect ratio.

vegggas

is there a way to enable/activate the analog capability of the DVI port? i need to run this to my projector which only takes VGA/RGB input. the first C.S. rep i talked to said TW does not have any transcoder boxes.

-paul

In the menu at the tuner area I am getting a -17 dbmV? Is this a low signal indication?

I think I read somewhere that +10 to -10 are acceptable numbers, but I really don't know for sure, I am no expert. FWIW, mine fluctuates from -6 to as much as -19 and I have yet to see any problem with audio or video, internet speed, or telephone quality.

vegggas,

First, many thanks for this guide!! I have one of the new SA8000 boxes and I believe much of the set-up is identical to what you have posted.

Question. I have a DLP projector whose native resolution is 720P. It will obviously handle 1080i in, but but likely scales the output.

At present my problem is I have an old DTC-100 that I use only for OTA HD. The image on my DTC-100 looks much better than the image on my SA8000, there is no doubt that there is much more picture detail on the OTA than I am seeing on the Cable box.

I'm gonna guess (based on your post to my questions inthe other thread) that something is fishy with my Cable box set-up, so here goes.

What do you think I should try: pass-thru or fixed 720p for my DLP's native res, however I believe the DTC-100 is passing a 1080i signal and it looks great..

That upconvert 2 is starting to look like it may be perfect for me too..

Thoughts??

-- Cain

Well there seems to be some variance between cable providers. The only audio options I have is audio control fixed or variable. I have time warner cable - Rochester, NY.

I am accessing the settings from the remote by pressing settings twice.

I still don't have digital audio!

If I'm missing something, please let me know!

Greg

Greg,

I still have the older (1.50.18.45) version of the software and I have 3 audio options in the General Settings area:

1. Audio: Digital Out (Dolby Digital or Other)

2. Audio: Range (Normal, Narrow, or Wide)

3. Audio: Volume Ctrl (Fixed or Variable)

I suspect the cableco gets to configure the options that they want to offer.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
I think I read somewhere that +10 to -10 are acceptable numbers, but I really don't know for sure, I am no expert. FWIW, mine fluctuates from -6 to as much as -19 and I have yet to see any problem with audio or video, internet speed, or telephone quality.

Is your telephone service through your cable? I heard they were going to offer telephone in the future.

My rom is 1.52.3.1 app is the same.

Greg

Originally posted by freek
Is your telephone service through your cable? I heard they were going to offer telephone in the future. Yes, I have just about every cable option Cox offers, digital telephone service, and internet service. With the discounts and package deals, I save about $10 over what DirecTV, Qwest, and Cox (or some other) broadband service would cost me for 4 rooms (only 1 of which is HD). I would not save if not for the discounts though and I don't own the HD and other receivers like I would with satellite. I did in fact initially purchase the HD receiver I have, but I turned it into a rental when Cox here dissolved their purchase program. But, I also don't have to worry about failure and replacement after the warranty period or forking out more $$$ for the latest model.

Everyone's needs are different and every digital service is different, so YMMV where you are. My phone service has been absolutely great. We did have 1 outage that might not have happened with Qwest, but we have cell phones for backup, so it was not a problem for us. All new services have some growing pains, but eventually the bugs get worked out. I am probably a little more tolerant than some though, so you have to judge all services for yourself.

Well, in the dumb and dumber category, sa decided to release different boxes with the same model #.

I've been chatting with someone in the area that has the same model box, but he has an optical output over the dvi connector. My box just has digital coax located to the right of the Y component output.

Here is a pdf that has the back of my box.

http://www.sciatl.com/customers/Source/4003138.pdf

Any thoughts?

Greg

I do not have the firewire ports, but the layout to the right of the dvi connector is the same or very close.

Greg

You say po-tay-to, I say po-tah-to. :)

Technically, S-A has not released different boxes with the same model #. What they did was release one model in at least 3 optional configurations. Add to that the fact that the 3270HD is the same as the 3250HD with a different color faceplate. In my mind that makes 4 configurations.

I have no idea why they chose to go this route except that it probably mirrors the options available in the software or they assumed there would be a demand for different configurations at different price points. It sure tends to confuse things though, especially when you add in the fact that cableco's appear to configuring the same software differently too.

I connected my 3250 to my Z2 projector. I get a warning that the display is not HDCP compliant (which it is). Anybody figure this one out yet. I called Time Warner Cable but was not able to get a fix.

I have a 3250hd and a Sammy DLP rear projection. I see the HDCP issue at times. I am trying to isolate the steps that cause it, but try the following:

1) unplug 3250hd, wait a couple of seconds.
2) plug in, if you haven't done setup, do it.
3) my latest thing, I changed the "auto-dvi" to upconvert-2 (my tv native is 720p).

So far, I have run ~24 hrs without the hdcp message occuring, but I am not convinced.

Go Gamecocks !! # 25 baby..

Gamecock, question. My projector is also native 720p. Have you tried other settings to see which one looks the best??

-- Cain

Originally posted by Cain
Go Gamecocks !! # 25 baby..

Gamecock, question. My projector is also native 720p. Have you tried other settings to see which one looks the best??

-- Cain

Cain,

I have done a very small amount of analysis. I am afraid I can't conclude much until I get this working more consistently. Avoiding the "tv is not HDCP capable" message is my first goal. Currently, I have the 3250hd on upconvert-2, not the auto-dvi and waiting to see what triggers the error.

In the auto-dvi mode, I can see the TV bouncing in and out of modes as I change channels (some channels 480p, some 1080i). 1080i and 720p look pretty close. When I was using component outputs, I thought the 1080i and 720p looked pretty close too, but settled on 720p.

Doug

I think I noted before that the DVI software from SA available now is in it's final "testing" stages. SA will have the more finalized version out in either February or possibly as late as March.
This is just a guess, but some people reprot no problems, while others report continous problems.
A note to Sony users - It was found by at least one user, who kept getting the HDCP error message every other day, that Sony had to fix something on the set that fixed the problem.
I'll look for more info on that.

vegggas

Well, so far I'm one of the ones with "continuous problems". I hooked up the DVI yesterday for the first time from my SA3250 to my Samsung DLP. Everything was fine until I changed the channel once, then it went to hell. None of the resolutions worked - all of them produced completely garbled images that were unrecognizable. I tried to force the box to "lock" into 720P, but to no avail - it continued to switch resolutions to match the source and none of them (including 720P) gave usable results.

So then I tried switching back to the component inputs, and those wouldn't work either! No matter what I tried, the Samsung just kept showing me the message "Not Supported Mode". That message continued even if I turned the 3250 off. If I unplugged or disconnected the 3250, the message switched to "No Signal", but once I connected it again, the "Not Supported Mode" came back.

I hooked up an SVideo connection and that worked OK, so I tried running through the setup procedure under SVideo to see if that would fix the problem. It didn't - everything worked correctly on SVideo, but component still showed me nothing but the error message.

Eventually, I fixed it. I put the 3250 into its setup mode while in SVideo, then switched to component, where (finally) I actually got a resolvable image. I finished the setup in component mode, and that mode is now working again.

I couldn't believe that the DVI setup was this messed up, so I tried the whole thing again - and got identical results, including the failure of the component connection.

I don't know what DVI firmware Adelphia has in this 3250, but whatever it is, it certainly makes a mess of my Samsung DLP.

Hey Jim.

How long has the 3250 been plugged in?

I received two new firmware versions within two weeks of getting my 3250 and hooking it up.

Maybe a newer version would work better?
(It did for me, I can now "Stretch" HD channels.)

It's been hooked up since Christmas eve. I'm not sure what version of firmware is on it at present - how do you find out?

Do you know of a way to trigger a firmware update?

What kind of set do you have?

Jim,

We have the same TV. I haven't seen that problem. I am no closer to isolating the hdcp message. Example,

Monday night. I unplug 3250 to get DVI working again. I set picture format to "upconvert-2" from auto-dvi. Everything is fine and had no problems all night.

Tues, kids use 3250hd via coax ouput on and off all day. The TV/3250hd is turned on/off several times.

Tues. night, I come home and turn TV/3250hd off to eat dinner.
A couple of hours later, I turn TV/3250hd and get the HDCP message.

There are 2 ways to get past the message:
1) disconnect the DVI cable and use something else.
2) unplug 3250hd, wait a couple of seconds, plug in and let 3250hd do it's cold start.

???????

Well, if we all just keep posting our experiences, perhaps we'll find something that works all around.

I've gotten my setup to work pretty well this afternoon. Here's what I came up with. First of all, I hooked up the DVI cable and ran through the setup process. I selected ONLY 720P as an acceptable output. I turned off the other five possibilities.

Then I set the 3250's picture format to "Fixed". Then I set the actual format to 720P in the "first" setup menu. Finally, I set the picture size to "Normal" on both the 3250 and the Samsung.

The result is that every channel is displayed the way it's supposed to be, and I don't get any error messages. The 3250 is converting everything to 720P. Even when the 3250 is turned OFF, it's still outputting a 4:3 blank 720P signal (you can still see the grey bars on the sides).

I'll let you know if I run into any problems down the road. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

BTW, I note at the beginning of this thread that I should be able to get to the 3250HD's diagnostics menu by holding down the Settings key (on the box itself) for a few seconds until the mail light comes on. However, that doesn't seem to work on my 3250HD. The instructions (on page one of this thread) don't make it clear whether that should be done while the 3250 is powered on or while it is powered off, but I tried it both ways with no luck. Is there some other method of finding out what version of firmware is on this 3250?

One other question: I tried the "Upconvert" settings and found that the 3250 did upconvert the 480i stuff to 720P, but it did so in such a way that the SD image didn't quite fill the screen from top to bottom. As a result, many channels showed a flickering horizontal line at the top of the image that should have been off the screen. Is there any way to adjust for this?

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
I'll let you know if I run into any problems down the road. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Well, my crossed fingers didn't help at all. I switched my set back to its DVI connection a few minutes ago and found that the 3250 was producing an entirely white screen. It looked somewhat like an analog channel that was tuned to no station (just random noise), but it had a bit more "evenness" than that. In any event, it was just blank. And it stayed that way even when I changed the channel or turned the 3250 off.

So I pulled the plug on the 3250 to let it reset itself. When I plugged it back in, it came up with the "your set doesn't support HDCP" error. So I pulled the plug again and walked away. I'll try it again later.

I reconnected the 3250 and tried it again. Result - back to the "white snow" screen. I'm going to go back to my component connection instead. I'll try DVI again at some point in the future after Adelphia has had the chance to update the 3250's firmware again.

If anyone else has encountered (or better yet, solved) this white screen problem, I'd like to hear about it.

And I'd still like an answer to either of the questions that I posted two notes above this one if anyone knows.

BTW, I note at the beginning of this thread that I should be able to get to the 3250HD's diagnostics menu by holding down the Settings key (on the box itself) for a few seconds until the mail light comes on. However, that doesn't seem to work on my 3250HD. The instructions (on page one of this thread) don't make it clear whether that should be done while the 3250 is powered on or while it is powered off, but I tried it both ways with no luck. Is there some other method of finding out what version of firmware is on this 3250?


To get into the diagnostic menu, on the front of the box, push the center SELECT button until the mail light turns on. From there the image will display system diagnostics on several pages.

One other question: I tried the "Upconvert" settings and found that the 3250 did upconvert the 480i stuff to 720P, but it did so in such a way that the SD image didn't quite fill the screen from top to bottom. As a result, many channels showed a flickering horizontal line at the top of the image that should have been off the screen. Is there any way to adjust for this?
You have a DLP with no overscan to hide this line. This is probably line 26 of the video, which is where the captions data is streamed. Not sure how 480i is converted to 720p, but it does modify the image enough to change the shape and size of the image. Is there a "centering" or alignment adjustment on your set?

vegggas

Jim,

If you do something as unwise as unplugging the dvi cable from the box and the plugging it back in while both are on, you may get the results as you described (as I did). I unplugged the tv and all was well.

I have everything but 720 and run auto dvi.

Greg

Originally posted by vegggas
To get into the diagnostic menu, on the front of the box, push the center SELECT button until the mail light turns on. From there the image will display system diagnostics on several pages.Well, that certainly agrees with the instructions that I read earlier. Nonetheless, it has no effect whatsoever on my 3250HD. When I hold the Settings button for up to 30 seconds, nothing whatsoever happens to the mail light. Any other thoughts?
Originally posted by vegggas
You have a DLP with no overscan to hide this line. This is probably line 26 of the video, which is where the captions data is streamed. Not sure how 480i is converted to 720p, but it does modify the image enough to change the shape and size of the image. Is there a "centering" or alignment adjustment on your set? That's what I figured. I don't recall any adjustments for that on the Samsung, but I'll double check.
Originally posted by gregoryperkins
If you do something as unwise as unplugging the dvi cable from the box and the plugging it back in while both are on, you may get the results as you described (as I did). I unplugged the tv and all was well.No, I haven't tried swapping cables with the units on. I can imagine that that might cause them some confusion.

Thanks to you both for the assistance.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by vegggas
To get into the diagnostic menu, on the front of the box, push the center SELECT button until the mail light turns on. From there the image will display system diagnostics on several pages.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Well, that certainly agrees with the instructions that I read earlier. Nonetheless, it has no effect whatsoever on my 3250HD. When I hold the Settings button for up to 30 seconds, nothing whatsoever happens to the mail light. Any other thoughts?
Have you noticed that we keep mentioning the SELECT button, and NOT the SETTINGS button? When you use the front panel to navigate, or even the remote control, where it's labled, there is a SELECT button in the center of the navigation arrows you have to push to SELECT the highlighted object.
If you look at the front of the box and see a button named SETTING, do not push it! It will only bring up the SETTING of the box.
Try the button between the <Vol- "+" Vol+> and between /\Ch+ "+" Ch-\/. This is the center SELECT button.
It's not marked on the front of the box, but it is on the remote, so it's an easy oversight.;)
vegggas

Ok, I just reproduce this same problem:

"

Monday night. I unplug 3250 to get DVI working again. I set picture format to "upconvert-2" from auto-dvi. Everything is fine and had no problems all night.

Tues, kids use 3250hd via coax ouput on and off all day. The TV/3250hd is turned on/off several times.

Tues. night, I come home and turn TV/3250hd off to eat dinner.
A couple of hours later, I turn TV/3250hd and get the HDCP message.

"

Same problem different days. I am wondering if my cable company , TW, is sending something to the box during this time frame. Could have something to do with the TV taking a while to spin up and the DVI synchronization timing out on the 3250hd.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Well, that certainly agrees with the instructions that I read earlier. Nonetheless, it has no effect whatsoever on my 3250HD. When I hold the Settings button for up to 30 seconds, nothing whatsoever happens to the mail light. Any other thoughts? Yes, Jim, RTM. There is a Select button, but that is NOT what vegggas was talking about.

I know he posted an explanation of just where the SELECT button is, but I thought I'd reinforce it. There is nothing on the front of the unit that says SELECT. However, if you look at page 5 of the User's Guide, item NUMBER 10 points to the SELECT button in the middle of the others, exactly where vegggas said it is. Please let us know when you find IT and what happens when you press IT for a few seconds. :)

Hopefully, you are in fact pressing the wrong button and when you finally get the right one you will be able to get to the diagnostic information screens. BTW. It's okay to slap your forehead and say, "Duh!" We've all been there before. :) :D :)

Originally posted by vegggas
Have you noticed that we keep mentioning the SELECT button, and NOT the SETTINGS button? Thank you! The fact that my problem is due to my own idiocy makes it a much easier problem to resolve. <g> (I'm a smart guy, but I swear that I'm getting stupider as I get older.) I'll try the SELECT button rather than the Settings button and see what happens.

So, am I still the only person who's ever encountered this "white snow" screen coming from his 3250HD?

Is anyone having issues with the audio dropping when using a fiber optic cable from the box to a stereo? I've tried both Dolby and Other (whatever that means), from Narrow to Wide and Variable and Fixed on the audio options. It seems to be worse on analog stations but its not consistent. Sometimes it kicks in after a few seconds of turning the channel other times it never turns on at all. If I do a hard boot of the SA box it will fix it about half the time but only temporarily. I'm still running the old firmware w/o DVI enabled (lazy Cox in Phoenix). When I used the analog connection I had a lot of interference where I could hear buzzing in my front speakers. Overall I'm not very happy with the box in general and this is just another negative to go along with poor SD picture quality.

I've got the 3270 (same as 3250 but with a silver faceplate) and don't have any of the problems anyone has been talking about (yet). I use the optical audio cable as well as L-R Audio cables. The only difference I notice is the volume level on digital channels when switching from narrow to normal to wide, narrow being the loudest.

It sure sounds to me like there are several marginal boxes out there that need to be replaced. I'm sure there are differences in signal quality around town, but that shouldn't have that much effect on digital channnels unless all the 1's and 0's aren't making it, should it?

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Thank you! The fact that my problem is due to my own idiocy makes it a much easier problem to resolve. <g> (I'm a smart guy, but I swear that I'm getting stupider as I get older.) I'll try the SELECT button rather than the Settings button and see what happens. I don't remember seeing it, at least not in the recent posts, so I thought 'd bring it up just in case you missed it. Once the Mail indicator lights, you display the diagnostic screens by pressing the Info button. You scroll from one to the other using the Vol +/- buttons.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
I don't remember seeing it, at least not in the recent posts, so I thought 'd bring it up just in case you missed it. Once the Mail indicator lights, you display the diagnostic screens by pressing the Info button. You scroll from one to the other using the Vol +/- buttons. Thanks, yes, I had that part right. But it's good that you posted it for the next person who comes along. I was able to get into the diagnostics screen, and it turns out that I have the same "newer" firmware that others here have reported - 1.52.3.1. (Has anyone seen a newer firmware version than this one?)

My 3250 is producing clean digital audio on all channels, so that part is working fine. But the DVI remains extremely troublesome. And the "snow white" screen that I keep getting seems to be unique to my set - at least no one else here has reported it. So it may well be that my 3250 is defective. I'm not going to do anything about it yet - for now, I've just switched back to component.

Well, I'm certainly glad we got that part of things resolved. Did you happen to check your FDC signal strength? Mine fluctuates from -6 to as much as -19 (it's -8 now) and I've never noticed a problem. Word is that it should be anywhere from +10 to -10. I doubt that has anything to do with your problem, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.

OK, I am 3 for 3. TV and 3250hd are turned off for dinner. Turned back on at 8:00pm and I am stuck at the DVI alert. Actually, I am having a hard time clearing it tonight. The unplug coldboot is not working. This is 3 days in a row. What is going on during this time slot? The tv/3250hd is turned off many times a day and doesn't have a problem until around dinner time???????

Originally posted by Rancyd
Is anyone having issues with the audio dropping when using a fiber optic cable from the box to a stereo? I've tried both Dolby and Other (whatever that means), from Narrow to Wide and Variable and Fixed on the audio options. It seems to be worse on analog stations but its not consistent. Sometimes it kicks in after a few seconds of turning the channel other times it never turns on at all. If I do a hard boot of the SA box it will fix it about half the time but only temporarily. I'm still running the old firmware w/o DVI enabled (lazy Cox in Phoenix). When I used the analog connection I had a lot of interference where I could hear buzzing in my front speakers. Overall I'm not very happy with the box in general and this is just another negative to go along with poor SD picture quality.
I had frequent dropouts using digital out until I checked my reciever's settings. My reciever was set to Wide dynamic range and so was the box. The two were basically fighting over the signal's range and being either too soft or too loud and dropping out a times and the analog would take over. Two things helped this out - YMMV.
First I tried removing the analog audio so that it would not default away from digital. Seemed to work, but I wanted the analog too because I prefer the DPL analog feeds for ESPN and most DD2.0 signals. Not too long of a test, but it didn't appear to have any more dropouts.
Second thing I tried was to set the box to narrow to get a low range of signals output to the reciever and let it widen the range. Marginal improvement. Middle range to middle range works the best so far and doesn't wake up the wife. So far so good, although ther has been one or two dropouts, but far less than before.

vegggas

gamecock, that sure is a strange problem. My 3270 has been on virtually 24/7 since Labor Day and I've not had any problems at all with it. I pulled the plug the other day because cable was having a problem with one station and I thought maybe the box got hung up, but everything came back on just fine. I'm still running the older version of software, no DVI yet. What happens if you simply leave the box on?

Originally posted by vegggas
I had frequent dropouts using digital out until I checked my reciever's settings. My reciever was set to Wide dynamic range and so was the box. The two were basically fighting over the signal's range and being either too soft or too loud and dropping out a times and the analog would take over. Two things helped this out - YMMV.
First I tried removing the analog audio so that it would not default away from digital. Seemed to work, but I wanted the analog too because I prefer the DPL analog feeds for ESPN and most DD2.0 signals. Not too long of a test, but it didn't appear to have any more dropouts.
Second thing I tried was to set the box to narrow to get a low range of signals output to the reciever and let it widen the range. Marginal improvement. Middle range to middle range works the best so far and doesn't wake up the wife. So far so good, although ther has been one or two dropouts, but far less than before. Veggas, none of those settings will have any effect whatsoever on your audio transmission. And disconnecting the analog signal will have no impact on the digital signal. Whatever effect you are seeing is entirely coincidental. If you are getting dropouts on your digital audio, it may be a cabling problem. If you are using coax, try replacing the wire. If you are using fiber, try reseating the connections carefully, and if that doesn't work, then replace the cable. The dynamic range settings will not (and can not) affect the quality of the signal being transferred.

It's also possible that you have defective equipment. But by far the most likely scenario is that you are seeing signal dropouts from the source. These can sometimes affect the audio even when the video appears unaffected.

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
gamecock, that sure is a strange problem. My 3270 has been on virtually 24/7 since Labor Day and I've not had any problems at all with it. I pulled the plug the other day because cable was having a problem with one station and I thought maybe the box got hung up, but everything came back on just fine. I'm still running the older version of software, no DVI yet. What happens if you simply leave the box on?

Yes, this is just a DVI issue. I am pondering that test. A couple of tests to try:

1) leave tv and 3250hd during those "bad" hours, anything happen?
2) leave 3250hd on , turn TV off as I do now, turn TV back on during the 8-9 pm, anything happen.

I am going to see if anything else local is using this box with DVI to see if there is anything common here.

DVI picture quality is great, but I can't have this thing crapping out when I am not home.

SA3250 Comprehensive Review Guide WOW Thanks VEGGGAS ! I was showing the installer how to output this baby to 720p ,he did not know how. got no owners man. and some old funky remote.Also was told HD tier included abc & cbs ,but in the small print it says only local feeds of those two omits anything about HD. rip off
Now a question, I cannot recieve Video on Demand,have tried hard boot, called and they sent some signal.They say my box is having some trouble communaticing, get error code E223. thanks , jj

Tuner -10 dbmv
FDC -3
RDC 39:

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Veggas, none of those settings will have any effect whatsoever on your audio transmission. And disconnecting the analog signal will have no impact on the digital signal. Whatever effect you are seeing is entirely coincidental. If you are getting dropouts on your digital audio, it may be a cabling problem. If you are using coax, try replacing the wire. If you are using fiber, try reseating the connections carefully, and if that doesn't work, then replace the cable. The dynamic range settings will not (and can not) affect the quality of the signal being transferred.

It's also possible that you have defective equipment. But by far the most likely scenario is that you are seeing signal dropouts from the source. These can sometimes affect the audio even when the video appears unaffected.
In my particular situation, My Yamaha receiver, which auto senses the type of input signal, was sometimes dropping the digital and reading the analog signal. I would watch the display go from reading "Digital" to "Pro Logic" and the digital line indicator would go off. During my test, where I removed the analog and forced it to digital, I had no audio dropouts. It may coincidental, but it the receiver no longer attempted to read the analog signal anymore The test was only for a few hours, so it doesn't actually prove anything.
The Dynamic Range settings were based on fact that I have the settings on BOTH ends of the devices. What happens when both are set to wide? Will really soft sounds determined by Wide range on the box get even softer when the receiver is also trying to Widen the range? Will I get errors if the two are on opposite settings? I didn't think there would be a difference, but dropouts have gone down dramatically for me running in normal mode at both ends. Maybe I bumped the cable too? Who knows?
- Y-M-M-V -

vegggas

Originally posted by vegggas
In my particular situation, My Yamaha receiver, which auto senses the type of input signal, was sometimes dropping the digital and reading the analog signal. I would watch the display go from reading "Digital" to "Pro Logic" and the digital line indicator would go off. During my test, where I removed the analog and forced it to digital, I had no audio dropouts. It may coincidental....
It is coincidental. My receiver works the same way. If the analog is connected, you will get analog when the digital drops out. If the analog isn't connected, you'll get silence with the digital drops out. But the absense of analog won't/can't prevent the dropouts. They are unrelated.
Originally posted by vegggas
The Dynamic Range settings were based on fact that I have the settings on BOTH ends of the devices. What happens when both are set to wide? Will really soft sounds determined by Wide range on the box get even softer when the receiver is also trying to Widen the range? Will I get errors if the two are on opposite settings? I didn't think there would be a difference, but dropouts have gone down dramatically for me running in normal mode at both ends. Maybe I bumped the cable too?Again, it's coincidence. The algorithms that perform the arithmetic to widen the range may affect the level (volume) of the signal, but it can't cause a dropout. No, you won't get errors from a "conflict". It wouldn't be a conflict anyway - these settings may change the dynamics somewhat, but they don't affect the delivery of the basic PCM or DD signal.

Yes, it's possible that soft sounds will get even softer if you set both devices to "wide". You may have to turn the volume up a little to hear it, but you won't lose the signal itself.

BTW, I'm a broadcaster and a digital recording engineer. I may be new to digital video, but I've been working extensively with digital audio for over 15 years.

That was why I was adding all the question marks. I KNOW it shouldn't affect the dropouts either, but somehow I went from about 1 to 5 per hour down to about 1 or 2 per day, if any at all.
I had changed the (coax) cable out a few weeks ago and had also switched to an optical (borrowed from the X-box) cable. Neither one improved the dropout ratio. After a week of continued dropouts, I considered there was nothing left to change in hardware. I looked toward the internal settings of the Yamaha and decided to change those settings instead.

vegggas

Originally posted by jojo57
Now a question, I cannot recieve Video on Demand,have tried hard boot, called and they sent some signal.They say my box is having some trouble communaticing, get error code E223. thanks , jj I had this same problem and TWC sent a rep out to my house. He traced a weak signal back to an old splitter/amplifier in the basement. He replaced the splitter/amplifier with one from TWC. The one he installed has a coax cable going from the AC plug to the splitter. I thought that was strange, but it works. My cable reception is fine now and I can order all the IN DEMAND shows.
Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
So, am I still the only person who's ever encountered this "white snow" screen coming from his 3250HD? I have the same problem with white snow when I turn on my TV & 3250w/DVI connected. In order to get rid of the "snow" and display the video, I have found that holding the SELECT button for 3 seconds on the 3250 (until the message light comes on), then press VOL- (HdSr should show on the 3250 display), and then press VOL+ (to set to 1080i). The picture immediately displays on the TV.

This is a nuisance and hopefully SA will send an update to fix this soon.

Or, maybe someone else has a permanent fix?

FYI: I have the SA3250HD's Picture Format set at 1080i in the Quick Settings menu and the Set: Picture Format set to Fixed in the General Settings menu.

On a side note, I was having an unrelated problem with my cable service and TWC sent a service rep to my house Wednesday 1/21/04. When he looked behind my 3250HD, he asked, "What is that cord?", referring the the DVI cable. I told him what it was and he replied, "They haven't told us the port was active yet." I showed him the email the TWC phone rep sent me notifying me of the software update (it is posted on my website's forum here (http://albanyhdtv.proboards18.com/index.cgi?board=boxes)).

My thanks to everyone for posting all the useful information on this thread.

Thank you , I have 5 TV`s and cable modem hooked to one drop,I think i need another one.
My Yamaha R-V1105 is doing the same thing ,drop outs while watching HD inputting optically. thanks again jj

Originally posted by DoubleDAZ
Did you happen to check your FDC signal strength? Mine fluctuates from -6 to as much as -19 (it's -8 now) and I've never noticed a problem. Word is that it should be anywhere from +10 to -10. I doubt that has anything to do with your problem, but I thought I'd mention it anyway. Mine seems to hover around -4 to -6. I don't even know what FDC level is. Wouldn't the QAM level (and s/n) be more important? The QAM level of my HD channels is sitting at about -12.

I don't see any way in which signal level variations could cause the DVI compatibility problems that I'm seeing. They could certainly be at the root of Vegggas's dropout problem, though.

Originally posted by Jim Gilliland
Mine seems to hover around -4 to -6. I don't even know what FDC level is. Wouldn't the QAM level (and s/n) be more important? The QAM level of my HD channels is sitting at about -12.

I don't see any way in which signal level variations could cause the DVI compatibility problems that I'm seeing. They could certainly be at the root of Vegggas's dropout problem, though. I don't either, I was just curious. Plus, you never know when something comes up that points a finger to the problem. It's kind of like vegggas and his wide/narrow receiver settings, shouldn't make any difference, but it looks like it does in his setup.

One would think that some of the data contained on the info screens would have some correlation to the problems folks are having, but so far I haven't seen any. Makes me wonder if any of that info has any value at all.

well had another tech out today still no VOD ,error e223, all signals are within spec. ,Supervisor will be out tomorrow. Tech said this was an old box ,then retracted said it was so new he had not seen this model before said i should try 3100hd.??

Video on Demand works great if its pay per view ,Just ordered Bruce almighty and came in great, still no free VOD . My audio dropout`s are most noticiable on HBOCW on SHOBW. jj

Rancyd,
I have the drop-outs from time to time also. Our local tech support here in Rochester says its a known problem and SA is working on a fix.

Sr. called said error e223 is an easy fix ,he needs to set up an account for me through something cube VOD,will take 24 hours to resolve.and another tech has to come by and get an address off my box. jj

I just had comcast (NJ) install a SA 3250HD STB yesterday. Trying to figure out the best setup settings for this box. I have a 1 month old Hitachi 50v500 RPLCD. Anyone have any suggestions on setting this STB up. One other question is last night on NBCHD the picture was not in full 16x9 mode although the STB or tv was reporting that it was at 1080i. The picture was streched somewhat from top to bottom and there were grey bars on the sides. Is there a way to get this in full screen with out using a strech mode since this makes some of the picture off screen. I am using the DVI output. I am new to all this HD screen res stuff so any help and Info would be appreciated. Thanks.......

RE: I just had comcast (NJ) install a SA 3250HD STB yesterday. Trying to figure out the best setup settings for this box. I have a 1 month old Hitachi 50v500 RPLCD. Anyone have any suggestions on setting this STB up. One other question is last night on NBCHD the picture was not in full 16x9 mode although the STB or tv was reporting that it was at 1080i. The picture was streched somewhat from top to bottom and there were grey bars on the sides. Is there a way to get this in full screen with out using a strech mode since this makes some of the picture off screen. I am using the DVI output. I am new to all this HD screen res stuff so any help and Info would be appreciated. Thanks.......

You need to set up the output options on the box to let it pass through the different resolutions available. For example if the broadcast signal is 720p but you haven't enabled that as a valid option (mine was off by default) it will convert it to 1080i in the box and then your TV will reconvert it to 720p if that is its native resolution (I belive your Hitachi is 720p). When this happens the box allows you to strech the picture since its seeing it as converted HD content instead of true HD. I had this problem until I tweaked the settings on my box. You should have gotten a 2-3 page manual on setting up the box to make it recognize your TV as widescreen and to select which inputs you want to accept. I think you have to hit info+settings at the same time or some combination like that (not at home to check and I can't remember for sure) while the box is *off*. Depending on your firmware version on the box you might have other options as well. If you go back to the begining of this thread there are much more elaborate and better explanations on how to set up the box appropriately.

Originally posted by Rancyd
You should have gotten a 2-3 page manual on setting up the box to make it recognize your TV as widescreen and to select which inputs you want to accept.It's also available on the Scientific Atlanta Web site ...
http://www.scientificatlanta.com/explorerclub/getting_started/4003114B.pdf

If the above link doesn't work, go to http://www.sciatl.com -> Consumers -> Explorer eClub -> Fill in garbage on reg page (you don't HAVE to use real info) -> User's Guides -> Explorer HDTV Set-up Wizard

dt_dc. I see you are still not crazy about providing an email address to S-A. :)

I just got Charter to swap my 3100HD for 3250HD everything works great except for the DVI output. Since I get the Auto DVI option DVI must be enabled on this box. I am connecting the DVI to a Infocus 7200 using an Infocus made cable. I get a great looking picture from DVI except the entire screen flashes with snow about every 2 seconds. The projectors DVI works correctly with my HTPC and a Bravo D1. Has anyone seen this problem?

Does your Infocus projector support HDCP? How long is the cable? To use DVI from SA3250HD, your TV must support HDCP. Your HTPC and D1 do not require HDCP.

Foxbat121:
Yes, the Infocus does support HDCP. I am not getting the "tv is not HDCP capable" error message that others are. Cable is 30 feet long.

Using 3250HD with latest firmware from Charter connected to
AKAI PDP4294 (Samsung) EDTV 840x480, HD compatible (480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i, user manual suggests 720p as best ), via componet port, also connected Cable out from the box to ANT/CAB in on my TV (coax cable)

1. The audio output from Cable out on 3250HD is MONO ?
2. For non HD channels, PQ seems to look better and clearer through Cable out/in than through the component, why ? The PQ through component seems to be out of focus and grainy background ?
3. Using upconvert 1, (480i > 480p, 720p and 1080i > 1080i) most non HD channels, I was able to toggle (using the # button on my remote control) between "normal 480p and zoom1080i", should I not only be able to get 480p ? On some channels, I was getting "normal 480p, stretch 480p) ??
4. Using upconvert 2 (480i > 480p, 720 and 1080i > 720p), I was still getting the same thing as upconvert 1 except the HD channels. On HBOHD and SHOHD, I was getting "normal 720p, stretch 720p, and zoom 720p" ???? The non HD channels still showed "normal 480p and zoom 1080i" Why ?
5. The fixed option worked OK. If I set it for 720p, all channels showed 720p. Did the box upconver and down convert everything to 720p ?
6. Connected the DVI and the screen showed "no signal".

Thanks in advance for any explanations.
mp

My cable company just released the DVI option about a month ago. I am working with them to get my DVI Alert problem resolved. Basically, dvi works fine and about once a day starts showing the dvi alert, your tv is not hdcp compatable.

Anyway, I got a patch from the local engineer that I think disables the hdcp stuff and everything worked OK all weekend.

gamecock:
What was the patch you got? Can you give us the details.
Thanks

Originally posted by John P
gamecock:
What was the patch you got? Can you give us the details.
Thanks

I don't have alot of details. I keep reporting my DVI problem to my local TW. We have a customer rep that is very responsive and even monitors the columbia, sc hd cable forum here at avsforum. Anyway, she got the senior engineer involved.

They are downloading the patches to my box so I am missing most of the details. They tried a couple of patches that didn't work. The Engineer then called me to say he got it working. He mentioned the HDCP software logic being a little buggy and modified a setting to disable it. Anyway, I haven't had any problem since Wednesday night.

Is anyone else having problems with audio sync using the DVI & stereo outputs? I have a Sony XBR 36" direct view set. This is happening on ABC-HD only so I was figuring it was on their end but then I remember watching George Lopez last week without a problem.

Kevin

I have Charter Cable in Calabasas/Malibu Calif. who uses the S/A 3250HD but have yet to sub to HDTV/Digital cable as I have to date been a Dish Network HDTV sub but the Model 5000+HD Mod. that allowed me to watch and record HDTV is being orphaned by Dish Network and will become unusable on 2-11-04.

Does the 3250HD your cable co. provided you with have (2) 1394 FireWire output connectors on the back?

http://www.sciatl.com/consumers/use...dfs/752313D.pdf

There's a federally mandated requirment that there is one activated by 4-01-04.

This may function only to connect to Mits and Sony TV's, or, may in fact support D-VHS just like the Comcast supplied Motorola 6208's do now.

That would make me very happy.

Anbody in the know on this?

My firewire ports are not enabled. However, I did hear a related rumor. My cable company has the 8000HD DVR as well. I was getting an update on DVI support on the 8000HD, and somebody mentioned that firewire was getting added as well. Anyway, TW will get a patch for the 8000HD in March that enables DVI. We shall see about firewire, but unless it uses the same protection protocol as the Pioneer 49txi, it will be useless to me.

I am hoping for D-VHS FireWire from Cabelco's.

As I said earlier, there's a federally mandated requirment that there is one activated by 4-01-04.

So, it may function only to connect to Mits and Sony TV's, or, may in fact support D-VHS just like the Comcast supplied Motorola 6208's do now.

Originally posted by gamecock
My firewire ports are not enabled. However, I did hear a related rumor. My cable company has the 8000HD DVR as well. I was getting an update on DVI support on the 8000HD, and somebody mentioned that firewire was getting added as well. Anyway, TW will get a patch for the 8000HD in March that enables DVI. We shall see about firewire, but unless it uses the same protection protocol as the Pioneer 49txi, it will be useless to me.
FYI,
At CES, the 8000 and 8300 were using Serial ATA DVD burners and Serial ATA Drives for expansion and archiving. Firewire support is still "iffy".

vegggas

Anybody please provide or verify if the audio output from the Cable out is MONO or STEREO ? My TV shows that the signal is MONO ?

thanks
mp

Originally posted by akai
Anybody please provide or verify if the audio output from the Cable out is MONO or STEREO ? My TV shows that the signal is MONO ?

thanks
mp

I have not been able to get anything out of my "Cable Out" port since I hooked it up. The on-line manual seems to indicate that I need some kind of "Bypass switch" to utilize it. A splitter out of the wall was alot easier.

Kevin

I just got my sa 3250.I have all the connections with component cables but when I go on a hd channel it is still 480i.The pictures is shown in 16x9 if the show or movie is hd but my tv tells me it is 480i.I need help

Originally posted by akai
Anybody please provide or verify if the audio output from the Cable out is MONO or STEREO ? My TV shows that the signal is MONO ?

thanks
mp
This box has a mono modulator output.
Typically the RF output provided by cable boxes and similar devices are mono or sometimes simulted stereo or phase delayed mono. Going from one RF output tuner of a box to another RF tuner in the TV will usually destroy most of the stereo seperation anyway, so they are not used.
Almost all TVs with a stereo tuner, will also have stereo AV jacks. The AV jacks alone are a huge improvement in sound quality over even a true stereo modulated output.
This is an HD box, and there is no HD output over RF either, so I'm confused why this would even be needed.
1) Best connections - Component or DVI and either optical or coaxial Digital audio. Providing HD video and DD audio when available with no bandwidth limitations.
2) Good connections - S-video (and composite) and R/L audio jacks - Providing decent baseband audio and video with moderate bandwidth limitations.
3) Poor connection - RF modulated output. Providing severely bandwidth limited audio and video being compressed and muxed onto a single RF channel to be regenerated by the secondary tuning device.

As for the cable out port not working, no bypass device is needed, use the bypass button on the remote???

Jiujitsu - read the start of this thread and set the box up.

vegggas

Thanks Veggas, the reason that I am still using the Cable out is because the PQ from this output is better thand from the Component connection, unfortunately the audio is MONO. The digital channels are comparable from both outputs The HD channels are better with the Component connection. The picture background seems to be grainy on SD if I watch it through the Component output. There is also another thread regarding dark image problem of this box, do you see the same problem ?

thanks
mp

I just discovered this thread, and want to say up front that it's great. I've been trying to find advice about the SA3250HD for a while, with little luck. Here's my situation:

STB is connected to a Panasonic CT-34WX53 widescreen HDTV, which displays scan rates of 480p/i and 1080i. I've set up the 3250 to recognize 480p/i std/wide and 1080i, and all five of those formats are available in the Quick Settings. But the General Settings do not offer me a Set: Picture Format option, I can't select Fixed, Pass-Through or Up-Convert settings. I called TWMaine and the support person told me "if it's not in the menu, then it's not part of our software, just like we don't support DVI, even though the connection is on the box."

I understand the DVI explanation, but I'm skeptical about the Set: Picture Format issue. Seems to me that's a basic part of the box set-up.

Then I asked him if that means I have to manually change the picture format if, for example, I'm watching an SDTV channel at 480p and then switch to an HDTV channel, or if I'm watching HD at 1080i and then switch to SD. He said, no, the 3250HD will automatically send the correct signal, which is why most customers just leave the box set at 1080i.

Is this true, or is he blowing smoke? If he is blowing smoke, what can I do about it?

mainemojo,

Looks like you have old firmware in the box like most of us have (DVI not activated). You only get those new options (pass-through or up-convert) with new firmware that also activates DVI.

3250 will convert all SD and HD channels to whatever output format you selected (1080i or 480p/i), but only one resolution. For most it will be 1080i. And you can manually change to other resolution from remote but it applies to all channels. Untill your box get updated firmware from your cable co., you're stuck with what you get now.

Originally posted by akai
Thanks Veggas, the reason that I am still using the Cable out is because the PQ from this output is better thand from the Component connection, unfortunately the audio is MONO. The digital channels are comparable from both outputs The HD channels are better with the Component connection. The picture background seems to be grainy on SD if I watch it through the Component output. There is also another thread regarding dark image problem of this box, do you see the same problem ?

thanks
mp
PQ better on RF out??? Whoa - Even the Composite yellow video video out connector should be a lot better than the RF out. Up from there is s-video, and up from there the Tri-wire component set should be awesome for HD channels.
All RF output is highy compressed AV (into less than 6Mhz total) 480i signals. Try using composite or S-video for SD viewing, both should be dramatically better than RF and provide stereo sound when available.

Do you have an HD set with 1080i or 720P inputs and are you using them??? Have you set up the box for the native HD resolution you are using???

Dark image problems appear on the down converted outputs when the signal is being converted from one format to another. This is more evident on dual conversion images like going from 480i upscaling to 480p or 1080i and then downscaling back down to 480i (or even using the widescreen scaler) The black levels can get "crushed" when downconverting and not show any detail in dark scenes, or appear to have a "negative" type affect on the picture.

vegggas

Thanks, Foxbat121. Nice to know I'm not alone. Maybe I'll e-mail the cable co to encourage the firmware update.

Thanks again Veggas, My TV accepts all input (480i,480p,720p, and 1080i through Component). I have set up the box for all resolutions. I have tried SD on Svideo but again poor PQ (poor cable ?). The only good PQ on SD channels is through RF input on my TV. I have not tried the Composite and wil try it tonight. Currently I am setting the picture format on the box as fixed and have been forcing the out put at 480p, 720p and 1080i for comparison (even through RF connection), still find best PQ on SD through RF. As I mentioned before, viewing SD channes through Component connection produced grainy background. HD channels and Digital channels are sharp and clear but suffer severe dark images. Do not know how to resolve this problem yet. My be a passthrough option can help ? I experienced a lot of "negative" type effect. What should I do with this problem ?

thanks
mp

I leave the 3250 set at 1080i and switch to s-video to watch SD. Seems to work best for me and I can use the TV's stretch mode.

Originally posted by chas good
I leave the 3250 set at 1080i and switch to s-video to watch SD. Seems to work best for me and I can use the TV's stretch mode.

Thanks Chas, I tried Svideo last night (brand new cable from CC), the picutre was grainy with green tint. No help. The PQ from composite is still not as good as RF. Last night, all the HBOs and SHOs, as a matter of fact, alsmost all Digital channels including the HDs had a severe dark picture problem, some scenes were like negative on the film (through Component output to my Component two input) regardless of the resolution chosen. I wonder if anybody on this board is having the same Dark Image problems through Componet output ?

thanks,
mp

It sounds to me like your SA 3250HD may be defective. Bring it back to your cable company and get another one. If that one does the same thing, you're out of luck. It just seems to me that your box is acting very different from most others and may be something as simple as "a lemon".

Kevin

I only get the darkness problem when downconverting from a higher resolution, never at native resolution. I hooked up my RF output again to see what the image looks like, and it's not too bad. All the other connection options still blow it away in terms of quality, so I'm still baffled on why you think yours looks better on RF.
You mention you are using component 2 for your input on the TV. This input does display the full resolution signal, right? I'm just wondering if that input downsamples to 480P or something. What kind of TV do you have anyway? Most TV's do not support both 720P and 1080i without scaling and reducing the image down to a native resolution.

vegggas

What's the difference between 480p/i Standard and 480p/i Wide? I've toggled between the two and can't discern any change when using the TV's Full aspect, unless I also toggle the Picture Size between Normal and Stretch: Normal produces sidebars, Stretch fills my widescreen TV. With the TV aspect at 4:3, the 480 Wide picture is actually narrower than the Standard format.

Originally posted by vegggas
I only get the darkness problem when downconverting from a higher resolution, never at native resolution. I hooked up my RF output again to see what the image looks like, and it's not too bad. All the other connection options still blow it away in terms of quality, so I'm still baffled on why you think yours looks better on RF.
You mention you are using component 2 for your input on the TV. This input does display the full resolution signal, right? I'm just wondering if that input downsamples to 480P or something. What kind of TV do you have anyway? Most TV's do not support both 720P and 1080i without scaling and reducing the image down to a native resolution.

vegggas

My TV is a plasma AKAI 4294 (Samsung SPN4325), it is a EDTV (852X480 although the manual says it is best with 720p). Component 1 and Component 2 accept all signals (480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i). PQ is stunning during bright scenes (with either 720p or 1080i through Component 2), other digital channels (100 up) look sharp through the same Component 2 but background grainy and fuzzy and ofcourse, the dark image.

Last night, hooked up RF output to my old SONY 32" CRT, side by side to the AKAI connected to Component 2, HBOHD, the AKAI PQ was sharp and wonderful until the dark scenes. The SONY was showing all details through the dark scenes while the AKAI produced AWFUL pictures. Side by side comparison, different hook up from the same box. I have an appointment to replace the box tomorrow morning and will report back if this will solve the problem. I will also try the DVI connection and see if any improvement can be made throgh DVI.

mp

Originally posted by vegggas
You mention you are using component 2 for your input on the TV. This input does display the full resolution signal, right? I'm just wondering if that input downsamples to 480P or something. As I'm sure you've already seen, he has a plasma EDTV. The online documentation that I could find says that Component 1 only accepts 480i/480p whereas Component 2 accepts 480i/480p/720p/1080i, hence the use of Component 2, and they all down-convert. Simple logic would dictate that a 1080i signal displayed on a 480p set should look really good. But, we all know that simple logic doesn't apply to this kind of technology or we'd all have 120p sets. :)

BTW. We finally got the new software for the SA3250HD/SA3270HD here with Cox-Phoenix. I've been playing with the Upconvert 1 setting. I notice that when I select HBO-HD, it will stretch the 4:3 image, but when I select StarZ-HD, it doesn't. I assume this is because the HBO image is 4:3 SD while the StarZ is 4:3 HD. Does this sound right?

Also, someone in another thread somewhere was talking about the speed of channel switching, albeit what a different box. He mentioned that he went into setup and only selected 1080i. He says this eliminates the box from switching resolutions while channel surfing, speeding things up a bit. I noticed too that while going through channels, there would be a delay while the TV resoution was switched from 1080i to 480i and back, etc. I haven't gone into setup to test his theory, I thought you might have noticed this behavior before I take the time to check it out. I know a lot of folks still complain about the speed of channel switching though I find it pretty acceptable.

By the way. I have the darkness problem with HD channels as well. It is not nearly as bad as with SD shown at 1080i. I do not have plasma. It is a Panny rp hdtv.
Had the cable guy come to the house. He switched component cables and then 3250's. Problem was still there. We even tried my Monster cables used on the DVD player. He claims I am the first in the area having this trouble. But I know better as I have read posts in a Okla area HD forum others with this same thing. Told the cable guy about the software updates. We still have the version used back in Nov. He said he would ask the engineers about it.
Because some have the problem and others don't is puzzling. It could be a component jack compatibility issue.

I noticed a firmware upgrade last night but I still can't get the DVI to work. I don't see a DVI option in the picture output section in the second level of the settings menu. I can go through the picture format options and look at the diagnostic screens but I'm not getting any channels to come through. My TV acts like its not receiving a signal. Has anyone in PHX been able to get a DVI connection to work since the upgrade? Being able to use the pass through option helped a little bit with SD on component but I would love to see an HD image on DVI. I have the number of some of the HD specialists in PHX that I can call if nobody has it working to see if I can speed up the process but I want to verify that its not just me before I push the issue.

If you got the latest firmware, DVI is now turned on. However, there is no indication that it's "on" from the set-up screen. It's a bit confusing. Basically, DVI is there but it won't be there until you hook a DVI cable up to your HD display. Once you hook up the DVI cable, the setting switches to "DVI Auto" and the component cable outputs get disabled (which makes it very hard to compare the two).

Later,
Kevin

Phoenix must not have gotten the DVI enabling software upgrade. I have rebooted my 3250, hooked up a DVI cable and turned everything on. The DVI input on my Sammy DLP says no signal, but the component out on the 3250 still works.

Ditto here with my box. No DVI Auto setting even though I have the Pass Through, Upconvert etc. and my DVI cable is hooked up to my projector.

Originally posted by DEvans
Phoenix must not have gotten the DVI enabling software upgrade. I have rebooted my 3250, hooked up a DVI cable and turned everything on. The DVI input on my Sammy DLP says no signal, but the component out on the 3250 still works.

Following the instructions posted by dt_dc earlier in this thread, check your firmware. If it's 1.52.3.1, it should have DVI support, at least that's what others have reported. If SA is sending out special updates without DVI support, I would think it would have to be a different rev than 1.52.3.1. Also, it wouldn't make any sense for SA to release new firmware with DVI turned off since they advertise it's capabilities and charge extra to supply a box with the connector on it.

Kevin

I checked my software and it is 1.52.4.1 but no DVI

Free, I'm over in Tempe and picked up two 3250's yesterday. Both have the 1.52.4.1 software and the DVI works with both. Kicks in as soon as you have the cable connected, even without a display, in the sense that it loses component output then. The DVI is working fine for me. You might want to double check your cable.

KO

Originally posted by kolson
Free, I'm over in Tempe and picked up two 3250's yesterday. Both have the 1.52.4.1 software and the DVI works with both. Kicks in as soon as you have the cable connected, even without a display, in the sense that it loses component output then. The DVI is working fine for me. You might want to double check your cable.

KO Can you post the specs on your cable (brand, where purchased, etc.) here and over in the AZ Society forum?

I'm in Phoenix (Mesa) and I checked my 3250 firmware version. It is 1.52.4.1, but lists a date of 12/04/03. I picked up the box about the week before Christmas. It shows no updates have been made since that time. So I guess that Cox did not upgrade mine. Do they do them one region or box at a time? When I signed up to get mine they said that they would be activating the DVI port early in '04 and I guess it is still early. I have had my DVI cable working on an OTA Samsung box that I tried and returned to Circuit City back in December. So I know it is good.

I don't know how you know when your box was last updated, but mine was just updated along with the rest of them on Thursday night. I know that because the version number, etc., has changed since earlier Thursday evening when I had last checked it. It now shows the same data as what you posted and I assume yours was also updated along with everyone else's, the process is automatic and transparent. As far as I know, the date of the software has nothing to do with when it was loaded on the Cox system or into your box, it is simply the date the software was finalized/released by S-A, and any date close to the time you picked your box up is simply a coincidence.

There has to be a specific reason as to why the DVI port is active on some boxes and not others, but it is not (IMO) the software version as that should now be the same on all boxes (3250's and 3270's). I've been reading a thread on AVS where one person bought a cable from Company A and it doesn't work (green screen), then bought a cable from Company B and it works fine, both DVI-D single links, just different brands. BTW, they say dual link is not needed for anything up to and including 1080i. At any rate, we are still wrestling with the why's and I'm sure someone will figure it all out before too long. It could be an HDCP thing, though that usually gives an error message.

Dave (DoubleDAZ): The DVI that works uses a 2m DVI cable that came with my Gefen DVI switcher (not runing through the switcher). Runs into a Sony 34" 16x9 directview TV and works flawlessly.

My other DVI hookup shows that the 3250 DVI is working, but I get a message that my display does not support HDCP. The display is a Marantz VP12-S3, so it DOES support HDCP. But the DVI cable is a 50' Better Cables (their premium product). The length is clearly beyond spec, so I think I'm losing HDCP as a result (my Samsumg SIR-T165 works fine using this cable). The component picture is so good that I'm not sure I'm going to worry about this.

DEvans: You have the latest software--even though it is dated 12/4/03, it was downloaded on the Cox Phoenix system only on Thursday 2/5. Remember, most of these software houses get the software done well before they actually distribute it! The DVI output seems to treat the attachment of a DVI cable as a "switch" so that you will notice no difference unless you actually attach a DVI cable. With the cable attached, your component output will not work at all and DVI will.

By the way, I plugged in a firewire cable just to see if it would work. It doesn't (yet), at least not through the Samsung or a JVC DVHS machine. Let's hope that it is activated soon!

KO

Thanks, KO. I'm just trying to figure out if the DVI not working for some could have something to do with the cables they are using. Like I mentioned, some folks have reported different experiences using different cables with the same equipment. I don't know if there is a difference between single and dual link, but I think I've read that folks were successfully using both types.

The HDCP thing appears to be a known problem. It could conceivably have something to do with the length of the run, but I believe I've read where folks with a standard setup/cables are having trouble off and on, hence the patch one guy got from his cableco to turn off the HDCP check in his box. Not sure what the latest is on that.

The thing there though is that if you are getting the HDCP error message, that means your DVI is working. Those folks who have hooked up a DVI cable and the options don't change from Pass-Thru to Auto DVI (and the component output doesn't disappear) simply means the box is not recognizing the DVI cable, it doesn't necessarily mean the DVI is not working. I believe I've read where folks have left their component cable hooked up and the DVI cable over-rides that automatically. You are correct about the DVI acting like a switch, menu options change based on whether or not the DVI cable is attached.

I didn't think about the date relating to when Cox actually loaded it to their system, but that makes sense since Dec 4 is around the right timeframe. The main thing there is that it has nothing to do with when it was updated throughout the system in all boxes. When you get a new box, the first thing it does is download the latest software and all will say 12/4/03 until Cox uploads new stuff on their end. The main info to consider is the SARA/ROM version numbers as the first DVI enabled software that vegggas mentioned was 1.52.3.1 and the latest version is 1.52.4.1, so S-A must have changed something between versions. I just checked the Info screens and the first one, Status Summary, has a 'Booted' date down at the bottom. Mine says Fri, Feb 6 2004, 1:00:47 AM MST. I don't know if that changes if you pull the plug and reboot the box or not, but I suspect not.

Too bad the firewire doesn't work yet, but it shouldn't be too long as the Apr 1 FCC deadline is approaching. I haven't heard anything that indicates that date has slipped any, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see if S-A gets it working by then or not.

The boot date does change when you reboot (upplug and re-plug) the box. I rebooted last night after assurances here that I did have the new firmware update. Low and behold, the DVI worked and the components did not work. BUT, anytime I put in a channel number greater than 99, it automatically changed it to some number above 900 (all changed to the same number) and didn't display anything. Also, the Guide and Info functions didn't work. I took the DVI cable off the 3250 and rebooted again and the components started working again with all channels, the Guide, and Info functions working. I tried another reboot with the DVI in place and then it wouldn't work. Feeling dumb and sleepy, I went to bed. Haven't had a chance to do anything more but will. The set is a DLP Sammy that is HDCP enabled.

Now that is what I call really strange. It seems that some folks get it working just fine rightout of the box while others have a myriad of problems, many of them different. I guessit could be that DVI is not technically enabled and folks have varying success using it.

Thanks for letting me know the boot date does change, I was about the unplug my box just to see. :)

I am going to try the re-boot thing with my component cables detached to see if it makes a difference. My DVI cable is fine, I just used it with a Bravo yesterday. It may be that my projector is not HDCP compliant, but I would think I would get the message instead of no signal.

So..as I understand it, when the DVI is working, the component is disabled, you can not switch between the two?

OK, here is what I found when I re-booted without the component cable. A screen popped up on the DVI input that said something like "Explorer Communications Center" with the SA logo next to it. After trying to get any other screen to come up, it just went to no signal.

I am assuming this is because it did not get the HDCP "Handshake" from my non compliant projector. Stupid HDCP :(

There definitely could be something to the HDCP stuff that results in no picture vs the error message at different points in the 'handshake'. Were you able to get the IPG and check to see what options you had, Auto DVI or Pass-Thru? It would seem to me that if you could see anything at all, even the Comm Center stuff, that the DVI must have been recognized, at least partially, but who knows?

It seemed like it was waiting for a verification when the Comm Center screen was up. After a couple of minutes it went to no signal. I never was able to get any other menu, guide, or image up. I tried the re-boot process a couple of times with the same result each time.

It takes a long time to recover to get a signal established after a reboot and for a picture to show. You have to wait longer than just a "few" minutes. Try 10 or 15. When the DVI port did work, it came up initially with the SA Explorer screen. So I think you did have the DVI enabled if you had waited long enough.

You guys are killing me! I have the 3250 through Wide Open West in Ohio. Old software. Old drivers. NO PASS THRU! AARRGGG!!! :mad: Poor tech support. It's actually my provider killing me, you're just making me envious.

Can you connect an outdoor antenna to this box in order to view OTA HD sources? I have this box with Charter's HD service, but the only local channels they offer in HD are NBC and Fox.

-Jeff

Originally posted by DEvans
It takes a long time to recover to get a signal established after a reboot and for a picture to show. You have to wait longer than just a "few" minutes. Try 10 or 15. When the DVI port did work, it came up initially with the SA Explorer screen. So I think you did have the DVI enabled if you had waited long enough.

So, after the Explorer screen, did you get no signal for several minutes, and just left it on until it came back?

"It takes a long time to recover to get a signal established after a reboot and for a picture to show. You have to wait longer than just a "few" minutes. Try 10 or 15. When the DVI port did work, it came up initially with the SA Explorer screen. So I think you did have the DVI enabled if you had waited long enough."

OK, I just tried this and after a couple of minutes the Explorer screen dissapeared. I left it alone for over 15 minutes but it never came back. Sound was always there though :(

Originally posted by acnownzu
Can you connect an outdoor antenna to this box in order to view OTA HD sources? I have this box with Charter's HD service, but the only local channels they offer in HD are NBC and Fox.

-Jeff No, none of the current cable boxes support OTA.

I spent another couple hours this morning messing around with the DVI connection and I'm seeing the same problems as Free. I use my DVI cable on my HTPC with no problems on my Phillips Cineos TV so I know the cable is okay as far as at least transmitting a picture. I'm using a 6 foot dual link from pacific cables. I think I've given up at this point at least for the time being. I even tried to do a cold boot of the TV to see if that was causing the problem. Is anyone that has the DVI working in Phoenix using a Dual Link cable?

Had my TV (EDTV Akai 4294/SamsungSPN4235) connected to the DVI port on the 3250HD (Monster cable from BB), Rebooted to start up showed TV not HDCP, rebooted OK. Worked great, beautiful clear pictures, still dark images but using the custom option to boost brightness, viewable. Turned off system, went for lunch. Came back, turned on the system, no picutre on snowy screen. Rebooted the sytem, worked fine again. Every time the TV is turned off and then on, will lose the DVI, either had to reboot or push those two buttons as if I wanted to go through the setup Wizard then exited will restore the DVI connection (learned this trick from another post). My cable co. is Charter in Glendale, CA. It is activated but not working as it should.

mp

Does anyone have a 3250 with active 1394?

Are all 3250s equiped with 1394?

Does the 3250 have an encoder in it to put analog video out over 1394?

Thanks!

I'm curios to know what type of DVI cable the people who have the STB working are using. Single vs Dual, Digital(D) vs Combined(I). 1 Meter vs 3 meter. I'm wondering if the box is very picky about the type of cable not necessarily the quality when trying to establish the connection. I have my HTPC running on my TV using a 2 meter dual link DVI-D from pacificcable but I get no signal beyond the initial SA splash screen from my 3250 even if I let it sit there for 20 minutes after doing a clean boot on both the box and TV. Please post cable info on any success stories.

Thanks

I am using the dvi-d cable that came with my gefen switch. It is 6 feet.

Rancyd, make sure you go thru the configuration steps to enable HD outputs.

Got SA3250 from Cox in Phoenix on 2/7/04 and started HD service on 2/8/04. SARA and ROM versions are 1.52.4.1. I do not see in any menu screen, where I would have the ability to choose pass-thru or upconvert1 or upconvert2 or dvi. Can anyone help me understand how to get to this area of setup?

Thanks
George

Sorry for my post...should have done a little more research. Got the answer. Thanks anyway.

George

Last night, Cox Fairfax finally upgraded
from:
OS TE 3.4 SARA v 1.50.18.a45

to:
OS HDE 1.0 SARA v1.52.4.1

About time ... I wonder if the previos version suffered from the same leap year bug as the SAE8k. I didn't think try it out.

Originally posted by georges326
Sorry for my post...should have done a little more research. Got the answer. Thanks anyway. Just so you know, there is an HDTV Society of Arizona Forum (http://pc-dtv.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=692604811&f=634607221) and we would be happy to have you join us. We discuss anything HDTV in Arizona and have sub-forums for General, Metro Phoenix, Tucson, and Others. It is perhaps the quickest way to get responses to questions dealing with Cox-Phoenix and Phoenix-related OTA questions.

Originally posted by dt_dc
Last night, Cox Fairfax finally upgraded
from:
OS TE 3.4 SARA v 1.50.18.a45

to:
OS HDE 1.0 SARA v1.52.4.1

About time ... I wonder if the previos version suffered from the same leap year bug as the SAE8k. I didn't think try it out.

Can't wait to go back home to test the DVI port:)

Well, it's good news and bad news. The good news is (1)once I selected pass-through mode, HD PQ seems improved a little through component (2) DVI is now activated. PQ through DVI is marginally better than component. But it seems to me the 3250 only negotiate HDCP after initial power up. As a result, whenever my TV(Panny 50LC13) powers down or switches input, only snow will show up on screen until I unplug the power and re-initialize the cable box. For now, I will just use component output instead.

Originally posted by georges326
Got SA3250 from Cox in Phoenix on 2/7/04 and started HD service on 2/8/04. SARA and ROM versions are 1.52.4.1. I do not see in any menu screen, where I would have the ability to choose pass-thru or upconvert1 or upconvert2 or dvi. Can anyone help me understand how to get to this area of setup?

Thanks
George

You need press settings button towice to enter the advanced settings screen. There, you can select video output mode (fixed, pass-thru or upconvert). DVI is only showing up when you have DVI plugged in.

I’ve asked this question in other forums before finding this thread, but here it goes.

Background: I have a KV40XBR800 (supports 480,720, and 1080)
with the SA3250
Connections: Digital cable to TV using S-Video (Input 1)
HD to TV using component (input #5)

STB: Set as widescreen in “Easy Setup” (TV autoconverts to widescreen)
Picture set to “Normal” and Output is “Fixed”

Problem: When STB is set to an HD station (Usually ABC), picture is sharper and has more color with the S-Video input versus the component/HD input. However, PQ on both is excellent, but I am confused as to why the non-HD input looks better.

What am I doing wrong? Should I be fiddling with the advanced set up for each station, i.e. for ABC should I set it to 720 since that is the output? This difference seems to go away with HBO and Max HD, but the HD is only as good, not better, than the S video.

Any help will be much appreciated. I want to make sure I am getting the most bang for my bucks.

Originally posted by richm99
What am I doing wrong? Should I be fiddling with the advanced set up for each station, i.e. for ABC should I set it to 720 since that is the output? This difference seems to go away with HBO and Max HD, but the HD is only as good, not better, than the S video.

Any help will be much appreciated. I want to make sure I am getting the most bang for my bucks.

Richm99 - I suggest you go back and use the advanced STB setup wizard. With the advanced wizard you will set the box to output all possible resolutions instead of up-converting everything to 1080i. Then you will need to goto the advanced setup (push the remote setup button twice) and go to the PICTURE FORMAT. There you can set the PICTURE FORMAT to pass-thru. This allows the TV to receive the native resolution being transmitted (ABC will be in 720p - others will be in 1080i). Also if you are using the component cables that came with the box, I highly suggest you go out and purchase a better video cable. I hope this help!

Kenni - that thought just crossed my mind as well. I originally used cables from the cable co., then switched to component cables I had on hand (RCA-probably low to mid-quality). Both displayed the same PQ. I am thinking about upgrading to Monster. Is it possible that some component cables deliver inferior PQ than some S-video?
Either way I will go through the advanced set up.

Thanks!

Originally posted by richm99
Kenni - that thought just crossed my mind as well. I originally used cables from the cable co., then switched to component cables I had on hand (RCA-probably low to mid-quality). Both displayed the same PQ. I am thinking about upgrading to Monster. Is it possible that some component cables deliver inferior PQ than some S-video?
Either way I will go through the advanced set up.

Thanks!
Richm99 - sounds like you've already tried other cables. The installers used the basic component cables (about a 30 ft cable) that came with the equipment and I noticed a major change by installing my own cables (also medium grade $50 cables and only 6ft).
I don't think going to Monster will fix your problem.

To answer your question, I've had component cables connected until they finally updated my firmware so the DVI would work, and the S-video connection was OK but no where close to the component PQ. It didn't matter if it was an HD signal or just 480i, the component was way better. My S-video produces a dark picture with the color overdriven. I needed S-Video connection because my Denon will not produced it's on-screen info over the component cable.

The best thing to try is the advanced wizard setup for the box. If you go to the SA website, they have a complete manual on how to use their wizard. I think will need to register (just give them an email address) to get to the manual. But you really don't need it. The on-screen info walks you right through it. It has a screen with each resolution and if you see it, you just accept it from your remote. It has 6 screens (480i, 480i-wide, 480p, 480p-wide, 720p, and 1080i). See if this maybe helps your problem.

I will give it a shot-BTW, my component cables were less than $30, so I'm guessing the quality may not be there. I already downloaded the manual from SA, so if I get time I will go through the advanced menu.

Thanks!

Originally posted by richm99
I will give it a shot-BTW, my component cables were less than $30, so I'm guessing the quality may not be there. I already downloaded the manual from SA, so if I get time I will go through the advanced menu.

Thanks! Sounds like you still have much better cables than came with the equipment. So it should not be a cable issue. If that doesn't fix it, do you have any other component equipment that you can swap out to check your TV input? I know my Song GWIII has individual setting for each input (DVI, component, s-v etc.), your Sony probably does the same. Might need to go into the service menu and make individual adjustments for the component input?

Good luck on the box setup!

I have a friend that has the 3250HD going into his TV/reciever audio inputs via composite. Initially it worked fine, but now he gets no audio out of his receiver (component video) and he loses sound through the TV speakers (composite video) but can get it back through the TV by muting and then unmuting. DVD and VCR composite audio have no problems.

Thoughts?

Originally posted by richm99
STB: Set as widescreen in “Easy Setup” (TV autoconverts to widescreen)
Picture set to “Normal” and Output is “Fixed”

Problem: When STB is set to an HD station (Usually ABC), picture is sharper and has more color with the S-Video input versus the component/HD input. However, PQ on both is excellent, but I am confused as to why the non-HD input looks better.
First, goto the advanced setup and enable 720P (off by default) and then change your output to Passthrough. In fixed mode, the output will stay at the last resolution you set. If Passthrough is not available and you have to use Fixed, cycle through the available resolutions to see if any others look better. Your TV upconverts 720 to 1080i, so Passthrough would not alter the signal from the source.
Check your output setting periodically. If your box has a marginal connection to the MSO headend, the box may default to a fixed or lower resolution when power cycled or reset. I found mine outputting 480i every day for a week until replaced the RF cable because of poor shielding (ground). Then it held the memory of the setting I wanted, which is Passthrough.

vegggas

I did the STB setup using the advanced settings, accepted all resolutions, and set it to passthrough. This made the PQ for the HD better. When comparing HD and S-video, the S-video images are definitely distorted (compressed), and when watching CSI, the S video side cut off some of the picture on each side about 50% of the time. The light colors still seem brighter on the s video when side by side with HD in twin view, but nothing you can notice when watching it in full widescreen. This may be due to the TV settings.
Of course, all this playing around with the settings drove my wife nuts and out of the room.
I am going to change the box anyway. When surfing, the channel changing is rough-the picture jumps for a second. I'll just set it up the way it is now.
I still may upgrade the cables at some point, but I'll wait until I happen to be in the electronics store (any day now I bet).

Thanks to all for your suggestions.

Thanks for the setup info.
I'm also Cox in Fairfax. The help line was clueless about the DVI. My is now online than because of your info. Does anyone know if the Cox Fairfax 1394 connection is up yet.
great thread
Thanks
Mark franke
Chantilly, Va

OK- here we go. I had a green haze over all channels on my 3100hd this morning. It started with the "on demand" channels--migrated to the hd channels and eventually went to every chanel on the box. The haze covered the entire pic as well as the black bars. This was 100% cable box related--no other input or component was affected. I called Comcast and asked for a tech with a new box. Meanwhile I power cycled my 3100 and the green haze disappeared. I cancelled the tech. An hour later the tech rings the bell and as I am telling him 'thanks, but no thanks', I see he has an explorer 3250 in his hands. I tell him I'm fine, but could I get the new box? He says 'sure-no problem'. As he was leaving I gave him my dvd-r copy of "Matchstick Men" (which he had asked about) and told him "this is not a bribe --you were gonna give me the box anyway". Now--the new box is cleaner and has dig output on ALL CHANNELS!. It also has all the options we have read about. 1)can I do any harm by accessing the menus? 20How do we know if the box is ready for the changes we wanna make?3) I have aspect options in the menu but they dont seem to work and 40 I chose to change the color of the sidebars but they didnt change. IS THE MENU INACTIVE ON SOME OF THESE OPTIONS UNTIL WE ACTIVATE THEM IN THE SERVICE WHATCHMACALLIT?/ Help!! I want my box to be all that it can be!!!

First, ccheck your firmware. Here in Ohio with Wide Open West, we have the 3250's but caveman firmware. The customer support people said the "dvi port isn't even attached to anything" they are predominately not the brightest bulb in the chandelier. I'm waiting on a software update to access all the features.

Originally posted by mattro
1)can I do any harm by accessing the menus?AFAIK the only problem you 'might' run into is a blank screen if you have an option for a resolution that your TV can't handle. Remember (or write down) the key strokes to get to the option so you can change it back. This usually happens when you press the Settings/Menu button on the remote and then scroll up (4 times I think) to the Picture Format option (480i, 720p, 1080i, etc). If your screen goes blank, simply redo the keystrokes and change the setting.
2)How do we know if the box is ready for the changes we wanna make?Not sure what you mean by this.
3) I have aspect options in the menu but they dont seem to workI assume you are talking about resolutions (480i, 720p, 1080i). Your TV may take some of these and convert them so that you won't notice any difference from one to the other.
4) I chose to change the color of the sidebars but they didnt change.If you are viewing a 4:3 upconvert image (black bars on the sides) on the component connection, the box option to change the color will not work. The black bars are added at the source to fill the 16:9 image and cannot be changed using this option. This option changes the color of the bars for non-HD channels, but many TVs already give you the option of black or gray bars.

"Auto DVI - If you are using the DVI port, you will see this option instead of the Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to the scan rate supported by the TV."

vegggas and others,

I'm a little confused what the above means. If I have a ED plasma where the native scan rate is 480p, but it can accept 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i, does Auto DVI mean that everything is converted to 480p in the box? Or does everything pass through in the original scan rate since the TV accepts all the scan rates (the TV will do the converting to 480p in this case)?

Thanks!

Originally posted by jrock65
"Auto DVI - If you are using the DVI port, you will see this option instead of the Pass Through option. Resolution is automatically formatted to the scan rate supported by the TV."

vegggas and others,

I'm a little confused what the above means. If I have a ED plasma where the native scan rate is 480p, but it can accept 480i, 480p, 720p, and 1080i, does Auto DVI mean that everything is converted to 480p in the box? Or does everything pass through in the original scan rate since the TV accepts all the scan rates (the TV will do the converting to 480p in this case)?

Thanks!
Mine passes through the scan rate of the input signal just like the pass-through for a component connection. I had already ran the advanced setup wizard to allow the box to support all scan rates. I'm not sure but the Auto DVI should just bypass the need to run the advance wizard. It wouldn't hurt to run the advanced set up wizard for your set anyway.

Thanks kenni,

One more question. What if I bought a native 480p plasma, but it didn't accept 720p. What does the Auto DVI do with 720p signals in this case? Does the 3250HD convert the 720p into 1080i or 480p?

Thanks!

thanks to all who tried to help. I have to say because of this forum I am one happy cable viewer. First of all, I probably wouldnt even have known to jump at the 3250 when I saw it. Once I got it however I quickly turned to this forum to tell me what to do with it. And this is what I did... Im went into the set-up wizard and set my desires (upconvert-1) and (widescreen). But there extra goodies I didnt expect. Now in the menu I can change resolution and aspect ratio with the touch of a button. All my pictures are extraordinary--the HD is incredible and thee sd is pretty damn good too!. I have digital sound on every channel... I have a downrezzed HD picture on my Tibvo now ...(I use the 3250 as my TIVO source). I have options of optical or coax digital output.and the greates surprise of all.... I have banner info on every single channel including hdtv!!Basically they have taken every fault from the 3100hd and addressed each one.Yes, losing some hd pic stinks if you dont set it back to normal but it is so easy to fix, why complain. ??? SO lets sum up--downrezzed pics,2 digital outs,DVI out,better graphics,graphics on HD,MUlt aspect rarios, choice of resolutions, quicker interface, and much more. I say ..BRAVO!! SCI AT BRAVO!!!

I have a HD3100 and I am trying to feed regular 4:3 channels to my projector in 16:9 mode via S-video (I'm using 16:9 mode so that the picture will fit within my 16:9 screen). Unfortunately, this doesn't work because the projector simply stretches the 4:3 image out to fit into the 16:9 frame.

My question is, if I were to upgrade to the 3250HD, will it be able to produce a proper 4:3 image with vertical bars on the side on my 16:9 screen using S-video?

I need to use S-video for my non HD channels because the 3100HD makes them unacceptably dark when using component. Any chance that this issue is fixed with the 3250HD, such that component output will do a good job displaying all channels?

Thanks for your input

Originally posted by jrock65
Thanks kenni,

One more question. What if I bought a native 480p plasma, but it didn't accept 720p. What does the Auto DVI do with 720p signals in this case? Does the 3250HD convert the 720p into 1080i or 480p?

Thanks! Jrock65 - good question. Don't know the answer. I have a GWIII and it will take any scan rate you can toss at it. With our Adelphia HD service and the DVI connected, I get the basic channels in 480i, interesting the fixed music channels are desplayed in 480p, ABC will automatically go to 720p and NBC/Showtime goes to 1080i. The SA box changes to those scan rates when the channels are tuned and displayes the scan rate for about 2 seconds on the screen.

I decided to play with DVI port on SA3250HD a bit more last night. Here are my observations:

(1) HDCP error message. 3250 box will try HDCP handshake when you first plug your DVI cable or when the STB is unplugged and rebooted. If your TV is not on or your TV is not on DVI input, the hand shake will fail and you get HDCP error. It also depends on the design of the TV. Some TV like mine (Panny LCD RP) will only respond to DVI HDCP handshake when DVI is selected as current input.

(2) Snow screen. This typically happens when you switch to different inputs on the TV or turned off the TV. The reason you see snow screen is that your TV forgets last HDCP handshake and reset its DVI to non-HDCP mode and displays garbage. Like I pointed above HDCP handshake only happens once in a blue moon on SA3250HD. A lot of TVs (mine included) do not store HDCP handshake status when you switch to different inputs or turn off.

The work around to above issue is somehow to re-initiate HDCP handshake from 3250 by one of following methods:

(1) unplug STB power and plug back in to reboot.

(2) unplug DVI cable on the STB and turn off the STB (no need to unplug power). Then plug in the DVI cable and turn it back on. It works but quite a few times the STB will reboot itself just like (1) above.

(3) Presss GUID and INFO buttons while STB is off to enter setup wizard and press exit.


The problem of DVI/HDCP connectivity is the fault of both the TV and STB. On the one hand, the TV should be designed to automatically remember last HDCP handshake status so when it is switched back on, it tries to re-establish the same connection or at least force a HDCP handshake if it is possible. On the otherhand, the STB should try HDCP handshake more often and make it easy, like every time you turn the STB on or press a special button on remote. As it sits right now, it is very unlikely you will get any fix or update from your TV manufacturers about its HDCP implementation. And I can not locate any DVI/HDCP technical spec to see who is at fault. We can only hope SA will eventually resolve this issue. Until then, I will stick with the trusty component output.

Originally posted by Foxbat121
And I can not locate any DVI/HDCP technical spec to see who is at fault.Did you try here:
http://www.digital-cp.com/

Specifically:
http://www.digital-cp.com/data/HDCPSpecificationRev1_1.pdf

FWIW, here in southern Maine, Time Warner was supposed to add DVI functionality by the end of February. But that has been delayed, their VP engineering told me, because "it caused a failure in several other areas of our STB functionality. The result was rolling back to the prior code and sending the Application back to the vendor for more testing. We believe we should be able to retest this month and send the code to all STB."

So it sounds like all the kinks haven't been worked out.

State A0: Wait For Active Receiver. In this state the HDCP Transmitter enables video to a non-HDCP receiver with HDCP Encryption disabled. If no low value content is available or appropriate, a “blue screen” or informative on-screen display should be transmitted. The transmitter must repeatedly attempt to read an HDCP register, at least once every 2 seconds and preferably much more often. Note that in most cases, if the user is watching video from a different input, the Hot Plug Detect signal will still be asserted but the HDCP Receiver’s registers will not be readable. Upon switching to the HDCP input, the user will wish to see valid video within a fraction of a second or they may conclude that the HDCP input is not connected and immediately switch to another input. For this reason, a valid video screen should at all times be transmitted whenever HPD is asserted and authentication should be started immediately after detecting a valid Bksv (Transition A0: A1).
From: http://www.digital-cp.com/data/HDCPSpecificationRev1_1.pdf

Based on the above, I would think both the problems you mentioned are in the STB.

Well I upgraded to the 3250 last night and non-HD channels now look much better through component using the 480p widescreen output option. The darks aren't nearly as squashed, if that's the right word.

Originally posted by Radbert
I have a HD3100 and I am trying to feed regular 4:3 channels to my projector in 16:9 mode via S-video (I'm using 16:9 mode so that the picture will fit within my 16:9 screen). Unfortunately, this doesn't work because the projector simply stretches the 4:3 image out to fit into the 16:9 frame.

My question is, if I were to upgrade to the 3250HD, will it be able to produce a proper 4:3 image with vertical bars on the side on my 16:9 screen using S-video?

I need to use S-video for my non HD channels because the 3100HD makes them unacceptably dark when using component. Any chance that this issue is fixed with the 3250HD, such that component output will do a good job displaying all channels?

Thanks for your input

Thanks dt_dc. I wonder if 3250 has reached its hardware limitation to fully implement the HDCP spec.

Radbert- What version is the firmware on your 3250HD?

How can I tell?

Originally posted by rkwochoski
Radbert- What version is the firmware on your 3250HD?

Originally posted by dt_dc
From: http://www.digital-cp.com/data/HDCPSpecificationRev1_1.pdfBased on the above, I would think both the problems you mentioned are in the STB.
I tend to agree, except that if the TV never sends back an ACKnowledge, then the STB will not send video. MSO's are being told to not send video unless HDCP is on and enabled in the recieving set.
Similar situations occur in Serial communications, where one end loses the handshake, but sometimes both com ports have to be reset to get the handshake needed.

Radbert - Check the first post of this thread for instructions.

vegggas

Originally posted by Radbert
How can I tell?

On the front of the STB, press and hold the button in the center of the four VOL and CH buttons for about 2 seconds. The green LED by the mail symbol will flash. After that you can release the center button, then press the INFO button and the diagnostic screen will appear. You can use the VOL buttons to scroll through different screens. Look for a screen that lists the software info. I believe the firmware is labeled App(s) and will look like this: 1.50.18.45.

I'm crossing my fingers that you have a newer version than the one listed above; that would give me some hope that when my cableco finally updates our boxes that the dark component picture situation I have will improve.

Originally posted by vegggas
I tend to agree, except that if the TV never sends back an ACKnowledge, then the STB will not send video. MSO's are being told to not send video unless HDCP is on and enabled in the recieving set.
Similar situations occur in Serial communications, where one end loses the handshake, but sometimes both com ports have to be reset to get the handshake needed.

vegggas

According to the spec posted, the STB suppose to check video connection at least every two seconds. If TV stops responding, it can do whatever it want. However, if TV returns to responding state (the TV is back on or switched back to DVI input), STB is supposed to initiate HDCP hand shake right away and start transmitting again. This is the part 3250HD did not implement. It only implemented the part that when a device is first plugged in to the DVI port of the 3250, it is required to initiate HDCP hand shake. The HDCP spec. has very detailed information about all these interoperations. I guess we need send SA engineers a copy with the above portion highlighted! :)

Thanks. I just checked and I have SARA v1.52.5.d2

After some more fiddling, I think I prefer using 480i Wide mode for everything except HDTV, and having my PB6100 projector do the deinterlacing. My digital movie channels look very, very good. A clear improvement over the HD3100, where my movie channels were mostly unwatchable due to a dark picture.

QUOTE]Originally posted by rkwochoski
On the front of the STB, press and hold the button in the center of the four VOL and CH buttons for about 2 seconds. The green LED by the mail symbol will flash. After that you can release the center button, then press the INFO button and the diagnostic screen will appear. You can use the VOL buttons to scroll through different screens. Look for a screen that lists the software info. I believe the firmware is labeled App(s) and will look like this: 1.50.18.45.

I'm crossing my fingers that you have a newer version than the one listed above; that would give me some hope that when my cableco finally updates our boxes that the dark component picture situation I have will improve. [/QUOTE]

Any one have any ideas how we can get a SA Engineer to join this post? Maybe we could get some real answers.

Originally posted by Foxbat121
According to the spec posted, the STB suppose to check video connection at least every two seconds. If TV stops responding, it can do whatever it want. However, if TV returns to responding state (the TV is back on or switched back to DVI input), STB is supposed to initiate HDCP hand shake right away and start transmitting again. This is the part 3250HD did not implement. It only implemented the part that when a device is first plugged in to the DVI port of the 3250, it is required to initiate HDCP hand shake. The HDCP spec. has very detailed information about all these interoperations. I guess we need send SA engineers a copy with the above portion highlighted! :)
The only thing I'm trying to explain, is that it can work/not work in both directions. It takes both devices to establish the handshake to allow video. Even if the STB is sending a request every two seconds, there is no guarantee that the TV is acknowledging it. If the box is in a constant state of "ON" and sending the request, every two seconds it would continue to do so until turned off or reset. This could easily proven by actually watching something through the DVI port. If the handshake is good and continues to be good the video will remain established. If either device does not receive or send data, then the video is interrupted (AFAIK).
The TV, however is constantly changing states by being turned on and off and changing inputs. It is very likely that the TV could be ignoring or mis-reading those requests for some reason or another. It could assume it already had an HDCP handshake once before and could be having problems establishing a new handshake, other could be potential voltage differences, or anything that throws off the initial handshake.
Just throwing stuff out there.

vegggas

The problem here is not whether or not the STB should transimit video when TV is off or switched to another input. The issue is WHEN TV is turned on again or switched back to DVI input, 3250 does not attempt to do HDCP handshake.

My experience posted above proves that SA3250 only do HDCP handshake once and only once when a device is first attached. HDCP spec. clearly put the burden on STB or HDCP transmitter to poll the special register of the receiver or TV to see if the receiver is listening or receiving. If it determines the receiver has transitioned from not active to active it MUST try HDCP handshake immediately. The process is bi-directional in the sense that the TV must provide feed back as whether or not it is receiving by respond to (active) or ignore(inactive) the request from STB to read a special register value. See the following snippet from the document:

The transmitter must repeatedly attempt to read an HDCP register, at least once every 2 seconds and preferably much more often. Note that in most cases, if the user is watching video from a different input, the Hot Plug Detect signal will still be asserted but the HDCP Receiver’s registers will not be readable. Upon switching to the HDCP input, the user will wish to see valid video within a fraction of a second or they may conclude that the HDCP input is not connected and immediately switch to another input. For this reason, a valid video screen should at all times be transmitted whenever HPD is asserted and authentication should be started immediately after detecting a valid Bksv (Transition A0: A1).

Originally posted by Foxbat121 (edited)
The process is bi-directional in the sense that the TV must provide feed back as whether or not it is receiving by respond to (active) or ignore(inactive) the request from STB to read a special register value. See the following snippet from the document:
quote: (edited)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note that in most cases, if the user is watching video from a different input, the Hot Plug Detect signal_will_still_be_asserted but the HDCP Receiver’s_registers_will_not_be_readable. Upon switching to the HDCP input, the user will wish to see valid video within a fraction of a second or they may conclude that the HDCP input is not connected and immediately switch to another input. For this reason, a valid video screen should at all times be transmitted whenever HPD is asserted and authentication should be started immediately after detecting a valid Bksv (Transition A0: A1).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Were reading the same lines, but interpreting it differently. If the TV's registers are not readable, then the STB does not do a handshake. A video screen SHOULD be transmitted at all times, but I think the TV is losing the sync.

vegggas

I think we're talking about different topic here. When TV is not responding, I don't really care what STB does. I care about when TV goes from inactive to active, 3250 should reinitiate HDCP hand shake instead of ignore it. My guess is 3250 continues to deliver encrypted video all the time regardless. Without a proper HDCP handshake, the TV simply can not decode the video or simply think the video data as un-encrypted. Hence the snow screen. It's not the same as loss sync. I know what lossing sync looks like on my TV (blank screen).

For loss of sync, I was referring to the data stream, not the video. I should have chosen a better explanation.
When TV is not responding, I don't really care what STB does. The STB CAN'T do anything if the TV is not responding. If it did, this would imply that there is no security on the signal. The TV HAS to send back data to comply with the security issues to allow video to pass from the STB.
I care about when TV goes from inactive to active, 3250 should reinitiate HDCP hand shake instead of ignore it. Yes it should. The TV HAS to send the signal that it is active again. If the TV never sends that data, the STB will never know to reinitiate the hand shake. Without this back and forth checking, you could plug the DVI into an HDCP device, get video, and then disconnect the signal and pull the video stream into a non-compliant device to circumvet the security. That is the reason for the TWO-WAY data to ensure each device is really there and talking.
My guess is 3250 continues to deliver encrypted video all the time regardless. It does, until the TV sends back an "All OK for HDCP" signal. Then the STB sends some video packets, and another "check for HDCP" signal. The TV gets the video packets and the "check for HDCP" data. If the TV sends back the "All OK for HDCP" again, the process continues. If the TV does NOT send back the "All OK for HDCP" data, the STB will STOP sending Video and ask for the handshake again. The TV then has to respond to the handshake and the process starts over again.
Without a proper HDCP handshake, the TV simply can not decode the video or simply think the video data as un-encrypted. Hence the snow screen. Without the handshake or the return of an "All OK for HDCP" type of message from the TV.

vegggas

Somewhat related to this handshaking:

Can someone confirm this is normal.

I have 3250HD with a Sony 40" XBR with comcast cable in CT.

I use "pass through" as my best option in the options menu not fixed.

When I turn off TV for night the box defaults back to "fixed" when I turn it back on next morning. I have to press menu twice to change it back every day.

I can find nowhere in any setup to set the default on the 3250HD box to "pass through" instead of "fixed".

It is a real pain to go through the change every time I turn on TV.

Any solutions??

This may be related to a return signal level problem. Try changing out the RF cable between the wall and STB or reducing the number of connections from the street to the STB. You probably noticed that the Guide is extremely sluggish and you have to "refresh" the data for almost every channel to read the description.
There is memory problem with systems with EOD services too. Too much memory is being reserved for EOD and not the guide data. SA is working on a better memory manager for all boxes. In the meantime, if after changing the cable and related connections and increasing both the forward and return signal strength and the settings do not remain the same, call the help desk and see if they can redownload the software to the box. It may need to be refreshed if it is on threshold levels.


vegggas

veggas:

Coax cable comes from wall to 2 way splitter. (no other TV's in house)

after splitter one goes to TIVO

one goes to 3250HD.

Is the splitter my problem??

By RF do you mean coax cable.

Should i try going direct to 3250HD and cut out TIVO to see if that solves it?

My coax cable is excellent quality.

Are you having the Program Guide delay problem?
"(no other TV's in house)"
Are you sure the line from the street enters your dwelling, and goes directly to your TV? Most homes have a single entry point and multiple runs to several rooms, all of which reduce signal levels, even with no TV connected. The only way to know for sure is to trace the lines.
Typical RF weak points: Ends of cables at the fittings (most commonly the shiled is bad), splitters, barrel connectors - anywhere a cable line has a connection point it has insertion loss. Be wary of line amps. Most consumer models only amplify the forward signal and not the return path.
Try swapping the output legs of the splitter, or using the RF bypass of the STB to feed the TIVO. Do a reboot, let it download the data and see if it gets any better over the next day. If not, call the MSO and ask for a "hit" or redownload to the box to see if that clears things up.
Good luck
vegggas

My 3250HD is hooked up to my Pansonic 42pwd6 via DVI, very time I plugged the DVI cable in it works. As soon as I changed channel, the "Your TV is not HDCP.... " appeared. The info on the channel appeared at the bottom of the screen but no picture, instead of the picture, I got the "Your TV is not HDCP ..." message. Please help.

thanks
mp

I was trying out the DVI connection with my 3250HD and received the same exact message and problem you are experiencing. With everything connected, I unplugged the 3250HD for 30 seconds then plugged it back in and it worked fine after that (although I have since gone back to component).
If you haven't tried this, give it a shot.
Good luck!

Hey, thanks for all the info in this thread. I think most of my previous DVI problems have been caused by the TV being turned off when the STB tried to perform an HDCP handshake, like others have mentioned. I found a new problem for ya, which actually makes the DVI-HDCP PQ worse than component...

Here's my setup:

Charter Digital with SA3250
Sony 40"XBR800 TV connected with DVI-D cable and nice thick components to A/B.

Ok, with this setup, when using DVI, displaying a 1080i source (DiscoveryHD, HBOHD, or SHOHD), I get approximately 1hz. horizontal scan line (scrolls from right to left about once a second). As the scan line passes through the picture, I get a bigtime red push in the middle of the scan line. It's more noticeable when watching dark content, and also seems more noticeable on film sources (HBOHD) as opposed to video (DiscoveryHD), but the scan line is still present even on the grey background that is visible while waiting for the STB to change channels. On 720p or 480p content the scan line is not visible. Also, sometimes the speed of the scan line slows down to about once every 2 seconds or so.

Would somebody please confirm if this color shift issue is present on their TV when using the DVI port? I think it might be a problem with my Sony TV, but I'm not sure.

Some more nitpicks with this box:

* No optical audio out... Ridiculous! My amplifier doesn't have coax in and that's all this box has. I am forced to use RCA audio and Pro Logic II surround... I feel like I'm back in 1989 with my first surround setup... LOL.
* No firewire IEEE1394 (it's marked disabled and covered by a metal plate).
* Sometimes very slow guide response and channel changes. I've hit the guide button before and thought it never got the signal, only to hit it a couple more times, then 20 seconds later the guide will pop up, disappear, then pop back up again (it seems to queue the remote signals). Same thing with channel changes.
* Random lockups when using DVI and changing channels. Sometimes the box will hard hang when using DVI and stick on the grey screen. The only way to recover is to pull the power plug and reset it. Power button doesn't even work.

One thing I really like about this box:

* Auto-DVI is a cool feature. It seems to automatically pick the native format of the channel, which is cool. 720p for ESPNHD, 1080i for DiscoveryHD, HBOHD, and SHOHD, and 480p for all of my SD channels, which is exactly the way I would set it if I were manually changing the mode on every channel. It picks the best resolution supported, without upconversion or downconversion.

Again, please confirm if you see the ~1hz. scanline with color push when using the DVI port.

Thanks!

I saw this scan line issue mentioned in another thread. I remember the conclusion is your SONY TV's problem as it only appears on Sony XBR TVs like yours. My Panny didn't show this problem.

Originally posted by illumin8
Again, please confirm if you see the ~1hz. scanline with color push when using the DVI port.See the following thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190083

Is anyone successfully using a SA3250HD connected by DVI to an Infocus 7200? My SA3250HD has the 1.52.3.1 software and the DVI port is active. I can see the picture however every 2 seconds snow flashes across the screen. I do NOT get the HDCP message, so the SA must be finding the 7200 to be HDCP compliant. The 7200 does support HDCP.

Originally posted by John P
Is anyone successfully using a SA3250HD connected by DVI to an Infocus 7200? My SA3250HD has the 1.52.3.1 software and the DVI port is active. I can see the picture however every 2 seconds snow flashes across the screen. I do NOT get the HDCP message, so the SA must be finding the 7200 to be HDCP compliant. The 7200 does support HDCP. John - I don't have your setup but I've seen this problem. I have a GWIII and did see something simular to what you described. My problem was the DVI connection to the back of the 3250. I noticed I could move the cable a little and cause the "snow" to appear. I took the cable off and checked the pins. Everything appeared to be OK. Reconnected the DVI cable making sure it was secure. That seemed to fix the problem.

Originally posted by dt_dc
See the following thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=190083
Thanks dt_dc! I had no idea this was a problem with my TV itself. Just called and scheduled service on it. Come to think of it, I had noticed this vertical bar on a much smaller level when using component inputs with my old Motorola 5100 (Comcast) box. It's only when I switched to DVI that it got really out of hand with the color push.

For some reason the component output on the SA3250 seems to have no scanline problem whatsoever. It must be sending the exact same sync that my TV is expecting. For those of you that have Sony televisions with the scanline problem, I've heard that fixing it will lower PQ slightly. What is your opinion? Should I have the fix made so I can use DVI with slightly lower PQ, or leave the TV as-is and get a pristine picture on the component input?

I'm kinda torn here. Thanks!

Originally posted by illumin8
Thanks dt_dc! I had no idea this was a problem with my TV itself. Just called and scheduled service on it. Come to think of it, I had noticed this vertical bar on a much smaller level when using component inputs with my old Motorola 5100 (Comcast) box. It's only when I switched to DVI that it got really out of hand with the color push.

For some reason the component output on the SA3250 seems to have no scanline problem whatsoever. It must be sending the exact same sync that my TV is expecting. For those of you that have Sony televisions with the scanline problem, I've heard that fixing it will lower PQ slightly. What is your opinion? Should I have the fix made so I can use DVI with slightly lower PQ, or leave the TV as-is and get a pristine picture on the component input?

I'm kinda torn here. Thanks! Illumin8 - you answered you own question, leave the TV as-is and get a pristine picture on the component input. If its pristine now, don't mess with it! I'm using the DVI now but only to prevent component switching to my GSIII. I don't think you will notice much difference IMO.

Originally posted by Foxbat121
The problem here is not whether or not the STB should transimit video when TV is off or switched to another input. The issue is WHEN TV is turned on again or switched back to DVI input, 3250 does not attempt to do HDCP handshake.

My experience posted above proves that SA3250 only do HDCP handshake once and only once when a device is first attached. HDCP spec. clearly put the burden on STB or HDCP transmitter to poll the special register of the receiver or TV to see if the receiver is listening or receiving. If it determines the receiver has transitioned from not active to active it MUST try HDCP handshake immediately. The process is bi-directional in the sense that the TV must provide feed back as whether or not it is receiving by respond to (active) or ignore(inactive) the request from STB to read a special register value. See the following snippet from the document:

Has anyone been able to resolve this? It describes my situation exactly!

With ROM version 1.52.3.1, if I change the TV input away from DVI port to component, and the back to DVI I get no picture or a lockup.

I have to unplug the STB or the DVI cable from the STB to restore function on the DVI connection.

I have a Samgung HLN507W HDTV, and my cable provider is Charter. I have seen mention of 1.52.6.1 firmware, and wondered if anyone with newer firmware than 1.52.3.1 has seen it to resolve this problem.

Charter is supposedly in contact with SA, with no reply yet.

Dave

Originally posted by illumin8


* No optical audio out... Ridiculous! My amplifier doesn't have coax in and that's all this box has. I am forced to use RCA audio and Pro Logic II surround... I feel like I'm back in 1989 with my first surround setup... LOL.

Thanks! [/B]

Radio Shack sells a cheap coax to optical converter (maybe $30) - I'm using one and it works fine.
Bob

Originally posted by illumin8
* No optical audio out... Ridiculous! My amplifier doesn't have coax in and that's all this box has. I am forced to use RCA audio and Pro Logic II surround... I feel like I'm back in 1989 with my first surround setup... LOL.
* No firewire IEEE1394 (it's marked disabled and covered by a metal plate).
Just so you are aware, this is not a limitation of the box/model, it is simply what the cableco ordered/received. The 3250 comes in at least 3 flavors; with/without Optical audio, w/w Firewire, and w/w DVI. You may be able to contact the cableco and swap for one of the boxes that has the features you want/need, especially now that more units appear to be available.

I've got the 3250HD and Wide Open West cable. My HD channels (200+) and digitals (channel 300+) have been flaky or just dropped out to a black screen. I was told by the phone techs that I have a low signal level and they will roll a truck next week to adjust. I went into the service menu and this is what I see:

Tuner: 765.000Mhz
Level -16dBmV (in orange color if that means anything) 0/Sec
FDC: 74.000 Mhz 8dBmV (in white color)
RDC: 20.5 Mhz 19dBmV (in white color)

On the more detailed "Tuner" screen, I see:

Current QAM
QAM-256
Tuner: 765.000 Mhz
Level -16dBmV
S/N 34dB

Can someone explain difference between Tuner, FDC, and RDC? What is a good dB level? I forget if "more negative" dB is better or worse?

Thanks.

-- Paul

You have a much better signal level then me:( My level is always -20dBmv and S/N is around 29 ~30 dB. It works fine 99% of the time. Occasionally when the signal level from cable plant drops a little bit, I got dropped video and audio. I believe the optimal range for signal level is +- 15dBmv and S/N above 30 dB. BTW, it varies from channel to channel. All my HD channels are on top of the spectrum and hence suffered most.

paule123.....

I also have WOW in Ohio. We have very limited HD channels and the 1394 & the DVI is not activated. I'm curious if yours is and where you are located.

I went through h**l trying to get a 2nd HD box. Story after story, they blew me off twice with noshows telling me no more boxes and the last story was a BS story about bandwidth, I made it up 3 levels of support and into the tech room. I finally after 4-6 mos got a 2nd box Sat with a new style remote that is a little nicer and they left their stock connectors and they are actually better now(I don't use them, I keep them so I won't get charged one day)

I just want to know your firmware, what ports are active and where you live to perhaps give me a glimmer of hope for the future...and how many HD channels you get and what they are.........

Luke

Paule123, I have yet to find a correlation between any of these numbers and PQ problems. I've heard that they should be in the +/- 10 dB range, but FoxBat121 says +/- 15. My HD channels are consistently -9 to -16 and I notice absolutely no difference, even at -19 and -6. It is now -16 with a S/N ratio of 32 and the picture/audio are rock solid.

I'm not sure this is the same signal level the tech is talking about. If you switch to an SD channel, the numbers will change. QAM will zero out and the FDC, I believe, will now reflect the level for the SD channel. I think these numbers might be related to what the 3250 is putting out rather than what it is receiving from the cableco. Maybe someone else can explain it all, I just don't bother to put much faith in the numbers the Info displays are showing. :)

Originally posted by 1SalesPro
paule123.....

I also have WOW in Ohio. We have very limited HD channels and the 1394 & the DVI is not activated. I'm curious if yours is and where you are located.

I went through h**l trying to get a 2nd HD box. Story after story, they blew me off twice with noshows telling me no more boxes and the last story was a BS story about bandwidth, I made it up 3 levels of support and into the tech room. I finally after 4-6 mos got a 2nd box Sat with a new style remote that is a little nicer and they left their stock connectors and they are actually better now(I don't use them, I keep them so I won't get charged one day)

I just want to know your firmware, what ports are active and where you live to perhaps give me a glimmer of hope for the future...and how many HD channels you get and what they are.........

Luke

I am in Shaker Heights. DVI and Firewire are not active yet, and when I emailed customer support a couple weeks ago, they said they have no plans to do so. I get CBS, NBC, ABC, FOX, HBOHD. On March 23 they are going to add a bunch of additional HD channels. DiscoveryHD, ESPNHD, and some others. See my post here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3389567#post3389567

You should definitely stay tuned on the official Cleveland thread, I think I'm the only other WOW guy in Ohio there. At least we're better off than Adelphia users - I think they still don't have CBSHD because of the Adelphia dispute with Viacom/CBS over fees.

Viacom is also preventing PBS/WVIZ from putting up their HD transmitter so I don't have high hopes for PBS-HD in Cleveland anytime soon. WVIZ leases tower space from Viacom/Infinity Broadcasting and it looks like Viacom is trying to screw them. As someone else pointed out, Viacom has Nickelodeon/kiddie programming and probably doesn't want to do PBS's competitive kiddie programming any favors.


-- Paul

I have a new 3250HD. I am wondering if anyone can tell me what the newest version of software is numbered and how to find it on the box. Also how do I figure out if the DVI port is active. How do I find the signal strength coming into the box, and what db rating is the best? Is there anyway to "Full screen" or 16:9 a HD or IPG 4:3 image on the 3250HD? Thank you for the reply in advance!

Originally posted by miniz
I have a new 3250HD. I am wondering if anyone can tell me what the newest version of software is numbered and how to find it on the box.Press the middle button in the cluster with the Vol +/- and Channel +/- buttons. Hold it until the Email light blinks, then press Info. Use the Channel +/- keys to scroll through the 16 screens. Software version info can be found on a number of screens, the 3rd screen is one of them I believe. The most current version seems to be 1.52.6.1, but many still have 1.52.4.1 (including me) and there seems to be a 1.52.5b.1 (or something like it) floating around Canada.
Also how do I figure out if the DVI port is active.It probably isn't, but I don't know a way to check except to plug in a cable. :)
How do I find the signal strength coming into the box, and what db rating is the best?I don't know of any way to find this, but you can find what the output strength is. I've heard both +/- 10 dB and +/- 15 dB ranges are good, so your guess is as good as mine as to what is correct. It can also be found on several screens. There is also a S/N ratio displayed on at least one screen. Be sure to tune to an HD channel when looking for this info.
Is there anyway to "Full screen" or 16:9 a HD or IPG 4:3 image on the 3250HD?I'm not sure I understand this. You can stretch/zoom by pressing the # key, if you have one, on the remote. You can also do this by going to the Quick Settings/Picture Size.

by saying "Full screen" I mean, is there anyway to strech a 4:3 image (considered to be HD, but is really SD digital) to "Widescreen" or 16:9? Say I have a local news boradcast on the NBC HD channel on HD cable, that is broadcast in SD digital 4:3, if I go into "menu" and select "Picture size">"Strech" it will not strech the picture, as it considers it to be an HD broadcast, since primtime programming on that channel is broadcast in HD widecreen, and the 3250HD will not convert HD channels to anything other than what they broadcast in as far as I can tell. Is there anyway to "strech" considered HD channels when they are not showing HD widesceen? Thank you all again. does anyone know anymore than Dave about db ratings? which is better being closer to zero or farther away?

I figured that was what you meant, but couldn't figure out why you were asking the question. The current 3250 software allows you to stretch any channel, even HD channels whether they are broadcasting 16:9 or 4:3 content. The earlier version of the software only allowed you to stretch non-HD channels and this is the version (1.52.3.1, I believe it was) that you might have 'wherever' HDTV Land is. :)

This is one of the biggest complaints about the current 3250 software, you have to manually toggle stretch/zoom on/off when tuning to/from HD channels. Folks want the box to recognize when an HD channel is broadcasting a 4:3 upconverted signal as opposed to a true HD signal and stretch/zoom as needed. Not sure how it would do that if the signal being sent is 16:9 even though it is upconverted stuff with side bars.

Anyway, it sounds like you need to wait until your cableco updates the software. I assume you were able to figure out how to access the Info screens and get the version number and other information you asked about, yes?

As for the dB ratings, I believe it is better to be closer to 0, but I've yet to find anyone who has had problems because of these numbers. In fact, though I don't read every post here, I don't remember seeing anyone who had their cableco fix signal problems that indicated these numbers ever changed.

Just spoke with WOW. In Columbus we have NBC,CBS and HBO. No FOX or ABC. We are picking up MAX, StarzKidz, HDNET MOVIES, Discovery and something else but no ESPN and still no FOX or ABC.:mad: :confused:

DoubleDAZ,

I'm pretty sure those are input signal levels not output. I have a pretty crappy cable line (too many splitters inside the street box). My DiscoveryHD channel is at the highest frequency (855MHz) and InHD channels are at lowest frequency (693MHz). InHD channels are rock solid and never have any problem. Its signal level and S/N are always a few dbs above DiscoveryHD. BTW, to get the input signal details, you need to go to the 5th screen of the info screen. Just like cable modem, the device itself oftern displays QAM signal level. I read somewhere that the lowest signal level possible for the cable box to lock on to is -25dBmv but often the noise will kill it.

So that's what those large numbers are, the channel frequency. I never paid any attention to them before, I learn something new almost every day.

Anyway, I'm not specifically saying they aren't input numbers (though that does make sense), 'cause I really don't know. I'm mostly just saying that I've yet to see a relationship between them and PQ problems. I've had numbers between -6 and -19 with no problems whatsoever and no difference in PQ whereas I've seen folks with less than -10 consistently that have had all kinds of problems, pixelation, etc. There does not seem to be any correlation and I think cableco techs that blame low signals for problems are lazy, inexperienced, or not talking about these numbers or something. I'm sure someone here knows exactly what all this info means, they just haven't joined in the discussion. :)

That's the magic of digital cable. PQ is not affected by signal level unless the box lost sync with the signal (that is when it is below certain level). When that happens, you either see no picture or large blocks of flying color on screen. However, signal level is just one parameter, S/N ratio is another. It could also be caused by problems in cable lines. My cable modem used to get a ping lag of 1,000ms or more with signal level and S/N all within the DOCSIS spec. It turns out the line have some problem with certain uplink channels. I have to force the modem tell the headend to switch to a different uplink channel and pings immediately dropped to 20ms.

In the middle of watching TV, the audio disappears. If I change channels it comes back just fine. What's up with that? It seems to happen most frequently during commercial changes.

J.

A few people have mentioned the same problem and it has happend to my SA32500 a few time too (always on a comercial).

I believe one person posted that this is a known issue and that SA has put out a firmware revision that successfully addresses this issue so lets hope our Cable companies can push the firmware soon. BTW that was a semi-recent posting.

After reading through the bulk of the 12 pages of this thread I can honestly say I've learned a few things (Thanks).

My DVI experience so far.........frustrating. Once the cable was hooked up and I performed the set up wizard again, my system appeared to working great. The 'Auto DVI' function did what it was suppose to and adjusted size and resolution of each channel I selected. BUT (and it a biggy), my PQ on ALL channels was crap. There appears to be a slight out of focus-ness to all channels (most obvious on HD channels) and at times some things appear to be over processed (as if I had VCM edge enhancement on). It got to the point where my eyes began to hurt looking at the screen so I turned it off and played a little X-Box instead.

I'm going to 'go back at it' tonight and try figure out what's going on.
Anybody else have PQ issues when using DVI?

FYI: 1. Component hook up looks great - just don't have enough inputs. Thought DVI would solve my problems.
2. My DVI cable is a 3 meter (@ 10 feet) DVI-D Dual Link.

Afterthought: How big a variance is there in DVI cable quality?

I noticed exact same thing on DVI but mostly on the IPG stuff the box overlays on. All the text look like have shadows. SD looks worse than using component. HD picture itself is fine. Not much of improvement over component.

Short DVI cable quality won't affect PQ at all. My suspicion is the whole DVI hardware (and firewire ports) is an after-thought on SA3250HD. I read reports that people with Motorola 6200 box see big PQ difference between DVI and component. Hope SA could get its act together and designed a better hardware next time. Or I will just pick up a CableCard ready STB from other name brands when it is available.

Well, I stop by my house for lunch and checked out a few channels while I ate. Noticed 2 strange things:

1. On one of the HD soap operas there was a character with a white blazer on. Around her blazer was a faint neon green shadow about 1/4" in thickness. Weird.

2. My HD PBS channel was 'shaking' during portions where the camera was still and focusing on a person or object.

Unfortunately, I didn't have time to hook up my component cables and compare - but it's definitely never happened before. Will investigate further tonight and see what happens.

Might end up going back to my original idea of a component video switcher.

Can anybody help with losing connection on the DVI port every time I changed channel. SA3250HD hooked up to Panasonic th42pwd6 through DVI port. Earlier suggestion is to unplug and wait 30 seconds, then pulg it back in. Any other solutions ???

thanks
mp

If I remembered correctly, this specific issue was resolved by a firmware update. Of course you can't get that update until your local cable co. pushes it to your box.

Beaker-

Thanks for the reply. I had seen those posts, I just haven't seen any resolution or progress on the issue in the last 7-8 pages of this thread. My 3250 only has digital coax out and most of the posters appear to have optical. I'll contact my cable co and see what they have to say.

J.

More info re signal level indicators on the SA3250 - the Wide Open West tech was just out to check the box and on the service menu screen I'm now showing a good -7 dBmV (in the white). It's been sub freezing the past few days, and this seems to have improved signal. Previously when I was losing my digital channels, signal was -16 to -20 dBmV (displayed in orange). This was previous week or so when we had a warming period and temps were 40 - 60 degrees.

It all makes sense now, the warming weather causes condensation in the taps at the pole and degrades signal quality. He said, unfortunately, to expect him back as it is a big problem in my area especially in the springtime. He'll have to go up there and blow the water out of the taps.

He said below -10 dBmV will change the display to orange indicating a marginal signal.

He even showed me how to push the buttons to get to the service menu to see the signal strength. I told him, aw shucks, I already knew how to do that, I learned about it on this wonderful online forum where all the SA3250 experts hang out :D


-- Paul

Time Warner Maine activited DVI today :D ! The PQ improved on everything, and the picture on digital channels and HD is outstanding. We're still waiting for more HD choices -- only 11 now in the Portland area, including two HBO, two Showtime, two InHD, two HDNet, PBS, Discovery and local NBC -- but DVI is a major step in the right direction.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Beaker-

Thanks for the reply. I had seen those posts, I just haven't seen any resolution or progress on the issue in the last 7-8 pages of this thread. My 3250 only has digital coax out and most of the posters appear to have optical. I'll contact my cable co and see what they have to say.

J.

Let us know what you find out. Even though some people have had a FW push that fixes the audio drop outs, my SA3250HD (Comcast area) must not be in that category. I just lost audio last night and needed to change channels to get it back. Actually the Video gets messed up too. Luckily this only happens rarely to me and has an easy fix. BTW I'm using the Digital Coax connection as my only audio out to my receiver.

does anyone know how to tell if the optical digital audio output is enabled? When I look into it, I see the red optical light on. TWC says that it is not yet enabled, but you would only truly know by plugging in a cable and trying. I don't want to buy a cable, and not have it work. can anyone help?

Originally posted by Beaker1024
Let us know what you find out. Even though some people have had a FW push that fixes the audio drop outs, my SA3250HD (Comcast area) must not be in that category. I just lost audio last night and needed to change channels to get it back. Actually the Video gets messed up too. Luckily this only happens rarely to me and has an easy fix. BTW I'm using the Digital Coax connection as my only audio out to my receiver.

Beaker-

Yeah, it happens pretty frequently. Apparently I live in a "one tech town" and the tech is always out. Most of the people at our local office don't know anything about anything when it comes to something technical. Oddly, and thankfully, our video remains fine but the audio just drops. It happens once or twice a night. Pretty annoying and not especially helpful when you're trying to sell the whole "HD" thing to the wife. I'll post when I'm able to get more info.

J.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Beaker-

Yeah, it happens pretty frequently. Apparently I live in a "one tech town" and the tech is always out. Most of the people at our local office don't know anything about anything when it comes to something technical. Oddly, and thankfully, our video remains fine but the audio just drops. It happens once or twice a night. Pretty annoying and not especially helpful when you're trying to sell the whole "HD" thing to the wife. I'll post when I'm able to get more info.

J.

Unfortunately I'm having the same drop outs here in Vegas with Cox Comm. Everything had been working great since the Superbowl but over the last few days I've had 2 drop outs. Might have to try optical cable for fix.

Wife is a little peeved since they both happened during American Idol recordings on our ReplayTV! Actually came in handy though when Leah sang her goodbye song :)

Petey

Originally posted by miniz
does anyone know how to tell if the optical digital audio output is enabled? When I look into it, I see the red optical light on. TWC says that it is not yet enabled, but you would only truly know by plugging in a cable and trying. I don't want to buy a cable, and not have it work. can anyone help? FWIW, the optical audio has worked on my 3270 from day one (last August/September). I don't believe I've ever seen a post by anyone saying they had a 3250/3270 with an optical audio out that was not active, I think you are the first to even ask the question. There might be some posts regarding the SA8000HD as they seem to be spoon-feeding active outputs on that unit, but I don't recall any specifics there either.

Also, I picked up my second optical cable at Target and it works just as well as my first, more expensive one. It should be easily returnable there if need be.

I thought that maybe it was the digital audio running via coax. I've also got the 3250 connected to our 35" tv via analog and s-video. The audio cuts out from this connection, too. Our 3250 only has the digital coax connection, no optical available. Why might this be happening through both audio paths? Any thoughts while I hunt the local tech would be appreciated.

J.

Well, I can only venture a guess that some of you have SARA version 1.52.4.1 and don't yet have the newer version (1.52.6.1) that appears to fix the audio problems (dropouts, no audio, tinny sound). FWIW, I don't recall the earlier version (1.52.3.1) having these problems, I think they were introduced when they tried to fix some other problems in that version. I've now had 1.52.6.1 for 2 days without problems, but others have had it a lot longer, also without problems.