I could always delete every post after 4999 until Tom posts something...
;)

Don't worry about it shadow, I don't think Tom does. your post is a good 5k one. You might want to hurry up and get us up to 5999 though so Tom can get the 6k one. If you can do it in the next 10 minutes or so he might not even notice :)

I think you are doing the right thing sticking with the H30 and waiting for this buzz issue to shake out. It throws a stunning image. My buzz is tolerable at about 5 feet. Unfortunately the best seat in the house is at 4ft. Aint that the way things always work out!

BUZZING UPDATE!

I finally was able to remove the cover while the unit was buzzing without it immediately stopping (although it stopped about 10 seconds later).

It appears that the buzzing is coming from the color wheel (as Tom first mentioned when this all started). I think you're right again, big guy. ;)

There's also a small fan next to the color wheel, but I doubt that's the source. I'm letting it run more now with the top off to see if it starts up again.

Regarding the noise level, I have the projector in a dead silent room and I can hear the buzzing when I get within 12' feet from it.

Originally posted by fleaman
Turned on the H30 (newer one) 20 minutes ago to warm up and see how the buzz issues are going...and it was a very loud familiar buzz at startup, just as loud as my other H30. But after 20 minutes it has just about faded all away and is quite now (I have to get my ear within 1 to 2 ft to hear any kind of buzz).

Gonna see how Scarface looks on the projector for a few minutes, then go to sleep....

Fleaman

Argh, 'Scarface' looks horrid! I mean the DVD quality..yuk, gotta be the absolute worst DVD pic quality I've ever seen. Looks like it was copied off an OTA TV signal.

But, onto an interesting observation: I noticed some noise lines on my TV when the projector was on (and buzzing). These were the type of moving thin white lines that you would see when you have your microwave going, vacuum cleaner, etc. But the lines last night were small and not that bad. In any case, I turned everything off in the house (fridge, lights, etc) except for the TV and the H30 (just turned the H30 on, so didn't want to turn it off). The noise lines were still on the TV. So, after I did a little H30 watching, I turned the TV back on to see if the lines were still there, and they were. Then, while watching the lines on the TV, I powered off the H30 and guess what? Yup, the lines disappeared! The H30 was causing the noise lines on the TV!

Oh, and by this time (30 to 40 minutes) the H30 wasn't buzzing anymore, so it didn't seem to matter whether the H30 was buzzing or not.

So it seems that this H30 I have is causing it's own line noise. I have to wonder if that affects the pic quality of this H30 cause I still seem to be having trouble getting good shadow detail w/o too much dithering. If I turn the blacks down to reduce the dithering, I lose shadow detail and if I turn up the blacks to improve shadow detail, the dithering gets pretty bad. At this point, this new H30 that I have seems to be worse than my old one in that regard. We all know how sensitive digital signals are to RF and dirty power...I can't help that wonder if this might be affecting my picture.

Fleaman

Originally posted by Kysersose
I could always delete every post after 4999 until Tom posts something...
;)

Start deleting, lol

Or maybe I'll be awake for number 6,000.

Hey, hows that 240k treating you? Still got it?

Mike-

Does your buzzing noise come from the rear corner of the unit, by the pwr cord?

And if so, when the top is off, is the buzzing now coming from a different area? I don't know where the color wheel is in relation to the pwr cord socket....

Fleaman

Mike,

If you're up for it, I know myself (and possibly others) would love to see some pictures of the inside, maybe labels to tell us what each of the sections are. I'm more of an enthusiast than an electrical engineer, so I'd love to know what a color wheel looks like, where it is in the H30, etc. More curiosity than anything, but maybe if you take the pictures, we could work to get them labeled, etc.

This might help with respect of devices interfering with other devices on the same circuit.
The facts/theory:
http://www.tripplite.com/support/faq/line_noise.cfm

The product: Isolation Transformers
http://www.tripplite.com/products/suppressors/isobar.cfm

This may not stop the buzzing sound...but it at leasts prevent crap to get into the curcuit and contaminate other devices.

This is what I use:
http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=211
So far 1 months no buzz, no problems.


Originally posted by fleaman
Argh, 'Scarface' looks horrid! I mean the DVD quality..yuk, gotta be the absolute worst DVD pic quality I've ever seen. Looks like it was copied off an OTA TV signal.

But, onto an interesting observation: I noticed some noise lines on my TV when the projector was on (and buzzing). These were the type of moving thin white lines that you would see when you have your microwave going, vacuum cleaner, etc. But the lines last night were small and not that bad. In any case, I turned everything off in the house (fridge, lights, etc) except for the TV and the H30 (just turned the H30 on, so didn't want to turn it off). The noise lines were still on the TV. So, after I did a little H30 watching, I turned the TV back on to see if the lines were still there, and they were. Then, while watching the lines on the TV, I powered off the H30 and guess what? Yup, the lines disappeared! The H30 was causing the noise lines on the TV!

Oh, and by this time (30 to 40 minutes) the H30 wasn't buzzing anymore, so it didn't seem to matter whether the H30 was buzzing or not.

So it seems that this H30 I have is causing it's own line noise. I have to wonder if that affects the pic quality of this H30 cause I still seem to be having trouble getting good shadow detail w/o too much dithering. If I turn the blacks down to reduce the dithering, I lose shadow detail and if I turn up the blacks to improve shadow detail, the dithering gets pretty bad. At this point, this new H30 that I have seems to be worse than my old one in that regard. We all know how sensitive digital signals are to RF and dirty power...I can't help that wonder if this might be affecting my picture.

Fleaman

Originally posted by xyz
Help!!! :confused: I accidentally reset my projector (using the reset function in the user menu). Now my picture looks like crap. Out of the box it was absolutly gorgeous .....now it's grainy and really washed out. I can mess with the settings, and make it look a little better, but nothing compared to what it was.

Can anyone explain to me the proper way to begin getting it back to that gorgeous picture? I am a complete newb when it comes to calibrating ... I don't know much about this stuff (so be gentle!!). Which mode (film, cinema, etc...) is the best to use? I am only using this for DVD viewing ...



Also .... I was going to get a panasonic XP30 dvd player, but they are pretty tough to find. Anyone want to recommend a really stellar player that can be had for ~$100 - $150 (don't mind refurb's if a really GREAT can be had). And are there any players that do DVI / VGA out that are great?


Thanks everyone in the forum.....this is such an awesome projector!!! (got about 40 hours, no buzzing, problems, etc.. etc.. me keeps fingers crossed :D)

In the two picture menu's choose cinema in one and Film in the other, color temp 2 and gamma 2, put the white peaking at zero. See if you have a DVD the has the THX optimizer. If not start with the brightness and lowering it till the blacks get very black, contrast is it probably ok at stock. If the colors are over saturated from lowering the brightness back the color off a little.

When you start using a progressive player you'll hv to re calibrate again. I'll help with the DVD player. On the dvd player you have now if you're look to see if in the DVD players setup menu if there's a Darker/Lighter feature. If so set it to lighter if you use a S-video or composite cable, set it to Darker if you use components. Lets us know how it's going and if you see any color problems?

Everybody should buy Avia so you can take the guess work out of calibrating. You can get it at a good price on Amazon.

Saturn_AD, have you tried plugging in your H30 WITHOUT the isolation equipment to see if it buzzes? Would you be willing to do so? The more information, the more it helps us all. Thanks.

Maybe certain units are more susceptible to dirty electrical supply, because I've used about six H30s on this same outlet (including my own) without any buzzing until this one.

I'll try to get some pictures shortly. The color wheel is not near the power supply. It's roughly in the center of the projector, right above the right side of the bulb cover if you're looking at the bottom of the projector with the lens facing away from you. You can't see it at all from the top, but if the bulb's removed, there's a small glass window that you can see part of whe wheel through.

Originally posted by Dillinger
David at Optoma was all over it. Emailed me my RMA form (Monday) to fill out electronically, which I did promptly on Monday. They sent a UPS call tag and UPS picked it up today (Tuesday). They will be replacing it with a brand new unit since it was within 30 days. So far I've been very happy with the service and response. So, it's back to my "little" 55 inch Mits RPTV for a few days.

Don

A happy ending to this dead bulb problem, lets hope the buzzing gets fixed or swapped out also.

yeah I would love to hear someone bought something like this Saturn, and it actually fixed something. I already have mine plugged into a APC UPS, don't want to go buy something like this unless it fixes things.

Mike I am going to have to send you my unit if the one you have is caused by the color wheel, cause that just can't be what I have going on here with the dimmer switches.

Flea, I am with you on the dithering. I am currently watching a darker image than I would like and losing shadow detail to try and tame the dithering. I have to say it is the best image I have got so far, but hate knowing I am missing any detail just because of the dithering.

I tried to take some screenshots but they came out with some weird purple/fuschia color. Can't see it myself, so must be my camera. Man I can't do anything right...

Ah well , I was hoping the Q/A date(s) might have something to do with the buzz ... I guess not :( .

----------- Jason

I really got the blacks to be very black with my replacement. I use gamma 2 and used avia's all black brightness pattern doing what Guy Kuo recommends and lowering till the left black bar just dissapears.

This PJ was really off when I first tried a progressive signal. The brights were so high that I couldn't lower the brighness enough to get true black. That DLP-brightness spot in the service menu helped the problem. Think I'll ask Wing if that's an ok way to effect blacks.

ROTK looked excellent last night. Plenty of blacks and plenty of detail. But no Hobbit Orgy. Jokers! :)

Tom ,

-- The hobbit thing is right near the end when Frodo awakens in the bed , Marry & Pip jump up on the bed with him and have a 'roll in the hay' so to speak ;) .


----- Jason

Did that last week and no buzzing noise..so my unit is good so far (knock on wood). It has been currently attached to a heavy duty Noma powerbar (its just your standard power bar but much bigger or much more industrial looking) for the last week and half. I had an extention cord running from the LCR2400 to the table where the projector was and my dog thought the extension cord was a new biting toy. Take heed that my place is new. The wiring is new. The socket is also on its own circuitto the breaker box. I checked. Nothing is on the same circuit other than halogen track lighting which you see above the couch. But that is turned off during the time I have the projector on.

I will hopefully have 2 AVSFORUM member at my place tomorrow evening who have seen or owned a H30 and see if they think mine has the buzzing problem. Maybe I am deaf. :)

I am ordering the cheaper ISOBAR for the H30 in about 2 weeks. Kinda low on funds right now.

I am still practising the hard power off on the unit after use and so far no issues. I have yet to see that orange power light.

My comment on the Isolation Transformer (Tripp-Lite ISOBAR) was just to see if the H30 would stop interfering with the TV on that earlier post. It is by no means a cure to the buzzing of the H30.


Originally posted by valkyrie
Saturn_AD, have you tried plugging in your H30 WITHOUT the isolation equipment to see if it buzzes? Would you be willing to do so? The more information, the more it helps us all. Thanks.

Here's an inside picture. Not really much to see. The bottom of the picture is the front of the H30 and the lens is in the bottom right hand corner. I've labeled the rest.

H30 Inside - Top View (http://www.surfaudiovideo.com/graphics/H30-inside.gif)

For all those wondering, the bulb is made by Osram.

I'm running the unit with the top off now again to see if the buzzing reappears.

hk: I know you kick this around the bucket a couple times but you did try your unit in another place where no dimmer switches were around... maybe a new house... a new state.. :)
Also since you were able to remove the cover and generalize where the sound as coming from I doubt then it is your power supply. Maybe some units DO have the issue with the color wheel. As a colleage of mine said. The earlier Optoma H50 or H55 would emit a whine...when he supposedly took it apart it seemed the bearing was the culprit. Maybe poor QC in asia. The bearing was not that good. Yes getting the high end bearings may cost 20-80 cents more ..if even ..but multiply that by the number of unit and it gets to a significant number. i might be talking out of my a$$ again though.
As with picture taking my camera also does not give the best representation of what my pj can show. I think we need to buy a more up to date digi camera. :)


Originally posted by hikarate
yeah I would love to hear someone bought something like this Saturn, and it actually fixed something. I already have mine plugged into a APC UPS, don't want to go buy something like this unless it fixes things.

Mike I am going to have to send you my unit if the one you have is caused by the color wheel, cause that just can't be what I have going on here with the dimmer switches.

Flea, I am with you on the dithering. I am currently watching a darker image than I would like and losing shadow detail to try and tame the dithering. I have to say it is the best image I have got so far, but hate knowing I am missing any detail just because of the dithering.

I tried to take some screenshots but they came out with some weird purple/fuschia color. Can't see it myself, so must be my camera. Man I can't do anything right...

I will hopefully have 2 AVSFORUM member at my place tomorrow evening who have seen or owned a H30 and see if they think mine has the buzzing problem. Maybe I am deaf.


saturn one who has seen or owned the h30 ;)

Originally posted by MikeSRC
Here's an inside picture. Not really much to see. The bottom of the picture is the front of the H30 and the lens is in the bottom right hand corner. I've labeled the rest.

H30 Inside - Top View (http://www.surfaudiovideo.com/graphics/H30-inside.gif)

For all those wondering, the bulb is made by Osram.

I'm running the unit with the top off now again to see if the buzzing reappears.

Great picture Mike!

Well, my buzz certainly seems to come from the area that the pwr supply is located. I've listened around the area that according to your pic, the color wheel is at and the buzz just does not seem to originate from that area. It's possible that the buzz might radiate in a weird way that makes it sound like it's coming from the pwr supply, but it really just doesn't seem like it to me.

Mike, you didn't mention if (when the cover is on) the buzz radiates from the power socket area or not? And then maybe with the cover off, it then seems to come from the color wheel?

??

Fleaman

Great pics. Could you possibly get a side angle shot from above on all 4 side...thats if its not too much to ask. Labels not neccessary.
Are those fan look like stock computer fans? There are lots of after market computer fans that have heavy duty bearings which make almost no sound when spinning.



Originally posted by MikeSRC
Here's an inside picture. Not really much to see. The bottom of the picture is the front of the H30 and the lens is in the bottom right hand corner. I've labeled the rest.

H30 Inside - Top View (http://www.surfaudiovideo.com/graphics/H30-inside.gif)

For all those wondering, the bulb is made by Osram.

I'm running the unit with the top off now again to see if the buzzing reappears.

When the cover is on, the buzz is loudest at the openings in the projector. That includes where the power cord is plugged in as well as in the front where the fans are.

Here's another shot looking at the rear, right corner. The yellow circle you see to the left of the bulb fan is a smaller fan that appears to cool the color wheel. The fans all seem to be quiet.

H30 Inside #2 (http://www.surfaudiovideo.com/graphics/Rear-rt-corner-view.gif)

Could be a dumb suggestion. But can that white paper or plastic piece (says 42.87) touch the small yellow fan during intake or outtake of air?

Originally posted by MikeSRC
Here's another shot looking at the rear, right corner. The yellow circle you see to the left of the bulb fan is a smaller fan that appears to cool the color wheel. The fans all seem to be quiet.

H30 Inside #2 (http://www.surfaudiovideo.com/graphics/Rear-rt-corner-view.gif)

Originally posted by guitarman

ROTK looked excellent last night. Plenty of blacks and plenty of detail. But no Hobbit Orgy. Jokers! :)

i can't remember which of the five thousand "endings" it was, but Frodo wakes up in slo-mo, a stream of hobbits run in (in slo-mo) and jump onto his bed and frolick as Gandalf the Gay, er..Grey looks on like some leering director and laughs and claps? in slo-mo. Then Aragorn and Gimli and Legolas come in and look on, disturbed. Sure it looks like peaceful happiness to some, but oh yeah, they're disturbed. you would be too.

maybe i read too much into it. but that wasn't in the book.

sorry if I offended anyone. :)

g

Originally posted by MikeSRC
When the cover is on, the buzz is loudest at the openings in the projector. That includes where the power cord is plugged in as well as in the front where the fans are.

Interesting because on mine the buzz really only comes from the pwr cord opening. The front vents/fans area I can only hear mostly the fans...not the buzzing.

Fleaman

mike be carefull but buy the power supply touch the cord and or the ground wire and just move it a bit and see what you get ?


but don't touch nothing that is live ;) because i want to make sure we make it to the party ;)

Well, I finally sent my H30 into Optoma for service. It went dark on 5/11 and doesn't work any more. I found my original invoice and the projector died 91 days from the invoice date! It cost about $75 to ship it to Optoma 2nd day air UPS (including packing fee + insurance), so I hope they find a problem to fix. It'll really bite to have it sent back in the same state with a note saying, "Sorry, it was a bad bulb, and the bulb only has a 90 day warranty." Maybe somebody there will take pity on me since it was only one day past the warranty. I swear that some electronics are programmed to know when the warranty period is up so they can die the next day. ;-)

I find it puzzling that when you remove the casing that it STOPS buzzing. When building small HTPC cases something like this usually triggers in my brain that either circulation flow is poor and parts are overheating or something is hitting a fan on the inside..hence my earlier post fo that white plastic/paper object close to the small color wheel fan.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
BUZZING UPDATE!

I finally was able to remove the cover while the unit was buzzing without it immediately stopping (although it stopped about 10 seconds later).

It appears that the buzzing is coming from the color wheel (as Tom first mentioned when this all started). I think you're right again, big guy. ;)

There's also a small fan next to the color wheel, but I doubt that's the source. I'm letting it run more now with the top off to see if it starts up again.

Regarding the noise level, I have the projector in a dead silent room and I can hear the buzzing when I get within 12' feet from it.

Originally posted by Saturn_AD
But can that white paper or plastic piece (says 42.87) touch the small yellow fan during intake or outtake of air?

There's no depth of field in the picture since it's a close-up, but that label is actually 3/4" away from the fan.

I absolutely cannot get the unit to buzz with the top off. I agree that it looks like the additional heat present with the top on is causing the incidence of buzzing, which also explains why it nevers buzzes until its warmed up for a half hour or more.

Originally posted by veggieguy
Well, I finally sent my H30 into Optoma for service. It went dark on 5/11 and doesn't work any more. I found my original invoice and the projector died 91 days from the invoice date! It cost about $75 to ship it to Optoma 2nd day air UPS (including packing fee + insurance), so I hope they find a problem to fix.

Did you send it to California? I think that ground UPS only takes about 2-3 days from WA to California anyways....and would of only cost about $10-$20 depending on how you do it (yourself or a mailboxes etc. type place).

UPS 2nd day air would only cost you more $$$ w/o really getting it there any faster!
(From that distance).

Fleaman

I absolutely cannot get the unit to buzz with the top off. I agree that it looks like the additional heat present with the top on is causing the incidence of buzzing, which also explains why it nevers buzzes until its warmed up for a half hour or more.



yes but mike with the power source there are usually a heat sink to help with the over heating ,even resisters could help that out but who knows ?

Originally posted by MikeSRC
There's no depth of field in the picture since it's a close-up, but that label is actually 3/4" away from the fan.

I absolutely cannot get the unit to buzz with the top off. I agree that it looks like the additional heat present with the top on is causing the incidence of buzzing, which also explains why it never buzzes until its warmed up for a half hour or more.

And of course my newer H30 now buzzes loudly at start up and then the buzz goes away after it's warmed up!! Last night it took about 20 minutes after start up for the buzz to fade almost all away.

So at least for my H30, the buzzing does not seem to be heat related...or if it is, not the same way as yours, and, it would seem to be random as both my H30's buzzed at all different times...from start up to 6 hours later.

Fleaman

Originally posted by veggieguy
Well, I finally sent my H30 into Optoma for service. It went dark on 5/11 and doesn't work any more. I found my original invoice and the projector died 91 days from the invoice date!

Since the lamp is under a 90 day DOA (dead on arrival) policy, I would argue that the 90 days doesn't start until arrival of the unit, which is probably less than 90 days. Just a thought.

Originally posted by fleaman
Did you send it to California? I think that ground UPS only takes about 2-3 days from WA to California anyways....and would of only cost about $10-$20 depending on how you do it (yourself or a mailboxes etc. type place).

UPS 2nd day air would only cost you more $$$ w/o really getting it there any faster!
(From that distance).


Where were you when I was in the UPS Store? :)

Actually, I had wondered the same thing, but the guy at the counter said that 3rd day select would be tuesday arrival, so I figured normal ground would be even longer than that. Oh well. At least it's on it's way, even though UPS now has too much of my money. In the long run it'll be worth it if it saves me from coughing up $360+ for a new bulb.

Originally posted by new teq joe
yes but mike with the power source there are usually a heat sink to help with the over heating ,even resisters could help that out but who knows ?

Yeah, but mine is definitely not coming from the power supply. It's got to be the color wheel.

Yeah, but mine is definitely not comimng from the power supply. It's got to be the color wheel.



so you think it is the bearings in the color wheel assembly

Originally posted by veggieguy
Where were you when I was in the UPS Store? :)

Actually, I had wondered the same thing, but the guy at the counter said that 3rd day select would be tuesday arrival, so I figured normal ground would be even longer than that. Oh well. At least it's on it's way, even though UPS now has too much of my money. In the long run it'll be worth it if it saves me from coughing up $360+ for a new bulb.

Yeah, well it wouldn't be the 1st time someone at a shipping store (UPS or otherwise) was full of it.

Normally 2nd air and 3rd day select only make sense (if you don't mind the extra cost) when you are shipping from say west to east coast (normally 5 days for normal ground shipping). Of course if you are in Alaska or Hawaii air shipping is the only option for UPS.

Next time (and for all), check UPS on-line to get an idea of shipping delays and costs from zip to zip.

Fleaman

From Vancouver Washington it is only $30.00 for 2nd day air via USPS with $1400 insurance & delivery confirmation [ this was the least expensive that I could find ] . I do not like UPS anyway , had bad luck with them in the past [ they are very rough with packages from my experience ] . If Optoma does cover return shipping then they use UPS 2nd day [ this is what I was told by Optoma ] , so I hope the new unit shows up in one piece ;) .


------- Jason

Mine buzzes all the time. Makes some freaky noises while starting up, but from what I have read here that is normal. Buzz kicks in immediately and I can always make it louder if I hit my dimmers.
I tried putting pressure on the case at different angles last night but that made zero difference. I don't know what mine is, I just know the dimmers make it louder, so you can draw your conclusions from that.

Thanks for the pics Mike, those are good.

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
... I hope the new unit shows up in one piece ;) .


I just hope there's a new unit to be worried about in the first place. :)

Unfortunately, it looks like there's no common thread among the buzzing problems. Too bad, I was hoping for an easy fix that could be applied to all. :(

Originally posted by MikeSRC
I absolutely cannot get the unit to buzz with the top off. I agree that it looks like the additional heat present with the top on is causing the incidence of buzzing, which also explains why it nevers buzzes until its warmed up for a half hour or more.

If this is the case, then it should buzz if you build a cardboard-and-insulation cover, or just run it inside a toaster oven for a while. :D

Seriously, there should be some reasonble tests one could do to prove it's heat-related, for example feeding it cooled air and measuring the temperature of the air coming out, increasing it until the buzzing starts. Since my unit once buzzed briefly until I fussed with a connector, I'm inclined to think it's vibration, but of course it could be a combination of heat and vibration.

I'd be inclined to suggest if we really want to get to the bottom of this, people should ship their units to Tom and he should take them to Optoma after confirming they actually buzz. Assuming he wants excuses to go hang out with his friends down there. :-) And of course Optoma could authorize people to remove the covers to their units to see if the buzz goes away--that might help narrow it down a lot. (It's certainly plausible that they're removing the covers immediately

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

I also have a unit that started to make an unusual high-pitched noise after about 20 hours of use. I have followed the discussion at this thread about this "buzz". Maeby the noise I'm having is this same buzz but maeby it's not? So are you guys sure we are all taking about the same kind of noise?

The noise of my unit is very high-pitched and is present at all times when there is a picture projected. But when I turn off the projector (by pressing the power button twice) it dissapears immidiately (the fans still remaining on for a while and no buzzing). Is this the same kind of buzz-noise you have?

Still on the same subject of recognizing the buzz; could some of you experts maeby post and audio sample of the buzz?

Have you heard that the positioning of the projector would have an effect on this issue? Mine is at the back wall on a small shelf just above the heads of the "audience" so to get the picture projected somewhere at the eyelevel I've had to tint the unit and use keystone correction of about -17 or so. So the projector is not horisontal when viewed from side.

can someone please help me with DVE.i don't understand how to set contrast with gray scale pattern.if i get a new H30 coz of dead pixel
will i get a new 90 days for the bulb.thanks

I'll give DVE explanation a shot...

Here's how I use it...

On the gray ramp pattern, there are two stripes on either end marked with small dots. These represent IRE 0 and IRE 100 (blackest black/whitest white)..

First, look at the black end of the ramp, and adjust brightness (yes, brightness is used to adjust black level. oddly named, I know....) Adjust it so the black stripe marked with the dot just melts into the black background. You should also still be able to clearly make out the slightly less black stripe just next to it...

When you are done with that, look at the white end of the ramp, and do the same thing, but this time use the contrast adjustment (and substitute "white" for "black" of previous step.)

That seems to work for me..

Originally posted by guitarman
Start deleting, lol

Or maybe I'll be awake for number 6,000.

Hey, hows that 240k treating you? Still got it?

The 240K is treating me very well. In fact, this is the first time in a long time that I don't feel that itch to upgrade. I really love it and couldn't be happier. :)

I'll make the switch when we get a true fade to black DLP PJ. Until then... I'm good.

It's still fun to hear about what's on the horizon and to read all the new PJ impressions. Keep them coming.

Go Pistons !!!
Go T-wolves !!!

--- neither is my home team but I gave up on them a couple years ago ;) .

--- Sorry , for the OT post :D .

------- Jason

Originally posted by Kysersose
The 240K is treating me very well. In fact, this is the first time in a long time that I don't feel that itch to upgrade. I really love it and couldn't be happier. :)

I'll make the switch when we get a true fade to black DLP PJ. Until then... I'm good.

It's still fun to hear about what's on the horizon and to read all the new PJ impressions. Keep them coming.

That is something I'm wondering about these days: Dark scene dithering. At least on my H30, the dithering (on the dark scenes) is much larger than the individual pixels. Yes, I can reduce the dithering by lowering blacks, but then I start to lose shadow detail (this all seems to be DVD movie and scene specific it seems).

Well, I'm not really gonna get into the life of dithering on lower end DLP's, but what interests me is that since the dithering I see is much larger than the pixels, I don't see how higher resolution projectors would really help the matter. Yes, the extra forest green segment would help, as is other factors, but it just would seem that by observing my H30, the dithering bothers me more than the pixel sizes. I can see dithering from much farther away than I can see pixel structure.

Maybe someone should tell me this isn't normal? Tom, in dark scenes what do you see 1st if you start moving closer to the screen? Dithering or pixel structure??

Fleaman

Day 74, 381 hours on projector....we start the projector as usual, start the projector first, (wait for the optoma symbol with swoosh to appear on the screen before we turn on the cable box) and the projector takes longer than usual to start up. When the image appears on the screen, it's all green, I mean totally green, green faces, green sky, the menu even has green letters. Turned the projector off and restarted it after 30 minutes and it's fine. Any ideas on what could have caused it, is this something that we have to worry about or was it a one time fluke??

Originally posted by HT Novice in TN
When the image appears on the screen, it's all green, I mean totally green, green faces, green sky, the menu even has green letters. Turned the projector off and restarted it after 30 minutes and it's fine.

I've seen this happen with computer monitors when a VGA cable is loose.

skw

Maybe the color wheel didn't start up and it was on green.

I got the green image when the H30 was reading a progressive signal as a VGA signal. I bet if you tried the "resynch" button, it might have gone away. (For me, the answer was changing the pins on my cable to remove the synch signal to get the H30 to read my iScan Pro signal right).

A little off the current discussions but... can someone tell me how the H30 behaves if the power goes out for 5 seconds and then comes on again? Is the H30 smart enough to NOT power back on right away?

I have roughly 35-40 hours on my H30 and it started buzzing. Sucks. It's getting a bit annoying since the projector is mounted over my head only 3-4 feet above.

I'm wondering if anybody called Optoma and see if they determined what the culprit is? Anybody?

Originally posted by sxxb
I have roughly 35-40 hours on my H30 and it started buzzing. Sucks. It's getting a bit annoying since the projector is mounted over my head only 3-4 feet above.

I'm wondering if anybody called Optoma and see if they determined what the culprit is? Anybody?

Well this is obviously turning out to be a wide spread problem. Total buzzers now = 14 I believe. Even some people who have returned their buzzers got another buzzer back.

I too am interested to know if anyone has spoken with Optoma in the last couple of days? They must have some idea by now!

I don't think I can hold off for 8 weeks before buying something. Still not sure if it will be a PJ or RPTV.

Originally posted by fleaman
That is something I'm wondering about these days: Dark scene dithering. At least on my H30, the dithering (on the dark scenes) is much larger than the individual pixels. Yes, I can reduce the dithering by lowering blacks, but then I start to lose shadow detail (this all seems to be DVD movie and scene specific it seems).

Well, I'm not really gonna get into the life of dithering on lower end DLP's, but what interests me is that since the dithering I see is much larger than the pixels, I don't see how higher resolution projectors would really help the matter. Yes, the extra forest green segment would help, as is other factors, but it just would seem that by observing my H30, the dithering bothers me more than the pixel sizes. I can see dithering from much farther away than I can see pixel structure.

Maybe someone should tell me this isn't normal? Tom, in dark scenes what do you see 1st if you start moving closer to the screen? Dithering or pixel structure??

Fleaman

My H30 doesn't have any swarming or mosquito noise that I can see. I'm four feet from the screen now and watching 4.3 local news at 120". Blacks are black and the scalers doing a great job. Very silent smooth image and for digital cable.

I was talking with Wing yesterday about me using the DLP-Brightness area for setting blacks. He said this is ok but wanted me to understand what the H30 offers for RGB-Brightness and Contrast adjustments.

He said the H30 is unique in that it has three area's where RGB can be adjusted.

1. The ADP area, which effects one area of the circuitry and covers all signals.

2. The User area, which effects a different area of the circuitry and separates tuning per signal.

3. The DLP-RGB, is directed to the DLP chip itself and effects all the signals.

Anyway he said using the DLP-brightness is ok as long as I understand each signal is effected.

The end result worked ok for me but I could reset the DLP-brightness back and take a look at what ADP-brightness would look like, since he did say ADP is pretty dynamic. The different RGB adjustments cover different color area's of the circuitry.

loosing synch....any way to fix this?

Here's a bit of annoyance that I've discovered.. When I watch the VCR and use revind feature... sometimes I get signal lost message....then H30 resyncs of course, but it takes 1-2 seconds for it to re-scan the inputs and resynch.

Any suggestions on how to stop it from doing it? ie. set longer time-out perhaps??

Try System menu, source lock.

In that menu I check

Source Lock on
Auto Shutdown off
Blanking Blue
Eco-Mode on

I get the feeling that it might just do it. Thanks.

Due to popular demand, here's a picture of the H30 color wheel: :D

H30 Color Wheel (http://www.surfaudiovideo.com/graphics/colorwheel.jpg)

So that's the culprit! buzzer

It's hard to tell the colors and I like the glass window idea, less chance of contamination.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Due to popular demand, here's a picture of the H30 color wheel:
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it just me, or does it look like really crude machinging on the housing of the color wheel. Very rough, unfinished cutouts, scratches all over the casing. I know if is accentuated by the picture being blown up, but YUK!

Originally posted by RichE
[BIs it just me, or does it look like really crude machinging on the housing of the color wheel. Very rough, unfinished cutouts, scratches all over the casing. I know if is accentuated by the picture being blown up, but YUK! [/B]
Making parts pretty costs money. If its a location that no one but a technician is supposed to see it doesn't make sense to put effort or money there.

Wow! You guys have been busy the last 24 hours. Great pics Mike, thanks!

Originally posted by guitarman
My H30 doesn't have any swarming or mosquito noise that I can see. I'm four feet from the screen now and watching 4.3 local news at 120". Blacks are black and the scalers doing a great job. Very silent smooth image and for digital cable.



Wow, I guess I (and some others) have some work to do regarding the dithering we see.

Hopefully it can be calibrated out....hopefully my dithering isn't being caused by something else, like maybe a noisy pwr supply, etc.

Fleaman

I just wrote Optoma about the buzzing issue, and I was told the engineers are looking into the issue (hope that means they agree it IS an issue). They've asked me to write back in about a week to see how they're doing, so I'll report back next week and let everyone know if I've found out anything else.

"Our product engineers are still looking into this matter. As soon as we have a resolution, I will let you know. Forward an email in about a week or so, and I should have an answer."

- Valk

Way to go Valk! Let us know what you find out.

I emailed them last week but got no reply. And yes it was a
civilized email ;-)

Cool. Thx Valk. Keep us posted.

Hopefully all the buzzing problems can be tied to one issue, but it certainly doesn't sound that way from what everyone's said here.

Yep, I think Mike is right. Sounds like several build quality issues here. Possibilities are...

- color wheel buzz
- power supply buzz
- fan buzz
- case layout that possibly amplifies any/all of the above

Originally posted by fleaman
Wow, I guess I (and some others) have some work to do regarding the dithering we see.

Hopefully it can be calibrated out....hopefully my dithering isn't being caused by something else, like maybe a noisy pwr supply, etc.

Fleaman

I'm with you Flea. How long is your cable run?
It is interested that Dithering is noted as a known weakness of single chip DLP. Thats what made me decide not to try and fix this issue with my pj. But if others aren't suffering with the problem then it must just be our config.

I'm running non-progressive DVD player and letting the H30 do the deinterlacing. Maybe that ties in with the problem.
When I had it on the 50ft S-video run the dithering was even worse, but so was everything else.

I might pull it down and run it in tabletop mode with about 6ft of cable to see if that makes a difference.

Tom if you pull up a grey screen and turn contrast all the way up and brightness all the way down it should look black. If you are standing 4' from the screen there should be a point that the image is crystal clear, then as you get darker, the dithering gets worse. When it hits black it is at the worst.

At least I can do that with mine. Does your blacks not show any low noise, when you do this test? Is is clean from white to black?
Thanks.
.

Both the H30's look clean. There was mirror activity at first on a progressive signal on the new one but lowering the DLP-brightness fixed it totally.

The user contrast adjustment on the H30 works unusually it does weird things when moved to the extreme positions.

On this new machine after the DLP fix I get numbers like.

Contrast 2
Brightness 8
For an interlaced signal.

Contrast +25
Brightness -25
For the progressive signal.

In general things look better with digital projectors when the Contrast is higher than the brightness. More pop, I'm just glad after the DLP adjustment the that correct contrast and brightness worked out where the C is high and B is lower.

Thanks Tom,

I will try those out when I get home and see how it looks on my machine. Good to have a point of reference if nothing else. Appreciate it.

I definitely cannot get the black bar to match the off pixels, probably need to go lower the DLP-brightness like you have done.
You say this fixed what little dithering problem you originally had?
That might be the solution, thanks again.

In the DLP area I went from 32 each to 27 each on the DLP-RGB-brightness. I had a 2.35 movie going at a dark scene and matched up the black bars to the un-used area's black. Then I went to the user menu to adjust with Avia. I didn't get any problems with crushing blacks or whites. Worked great

It's funny how this all goes back to the service menu calibrations that were discussed a couple months back [ well funny in the sense that long threads like this one seem to repeat things over and over . Not funny for those that have the issues ;) ] .

--- Getting rid of the Red and/or Green push is very much related to black level being accurate [ any extra red or green in there will throw off black level/gray scale - our eyes are not as sensitive to blue so it takes much stronger blues to throw it off ] .

--- For the most accurate & proper calibration of the H30 the service menu should be used IMO . The factory calibrations on the H30 are all over the place and different sources give different results .

--- For Example : I am unable to get a totally noise free image with an Xbox (via progressive Component) as a source but with an HTPC (via RGB/VGA) I have Zero noise and no dithering at absolute black [ 0 IRE ] .


-------- Jason

I think mostly there calibrated well for Interlaced DVD and S-video. It's been the progressive DVD signal that's been off with being too bright and have color bias mainly green push.

I didn't mention just recently the auto-cal bright and auto-cal contrast in the service area. I't supposed to be usefull to make your different electronic devices better. I didn't mess with mine on the new one because last time I messed up by using the auto-cal color (Magenta) which we know now should never be used.

I think Jason used the auto/bright and contrast. How did that work out for you? Could you see a difference with better black?

I think Jason used the auto/bright and contrast. How did that work out for you? Could you see a difference with better black?


tom any auto cal. in many pj's even the 12000$ dollar units suck .


better adjusting it manually if possible ;)



I didn't mess with mine on the new one because last time I messed up by using the auto-cal color (Magenta) which we know now should never be used.


yup i think i warned people about that way,way back on the thread ,but tom is right :) don't use this feature ;)

I tried the auto bright and contrast on another H30 right out of the box and didn't see much improvement. I wound up just manually adjusting it as Joe said.

Well using an HTPC I had better results after using the Auto Cal [ Black/White ] which would make sense since the H30's seem to be better calibrated from the factory for S-Video/Interlaced sources [ but I cannot stand to watch anything via interlaced source using the H30 scaler after viewing from an HTPC - not knocking the internal scaler/deinterlacer but after seeing an HTPC with the H30 there is really no comparison IMO ] .

-- Would be nice if Optoma calibrated the VGA input since this is an HT designed PJ and the highest quality level will come from using RGB via HTPC [ of this there is no doubt ] .
-- I mean do they really think that the price point of the H30 means people will mostly be using interlaced dvd players ?



------------- Jason

I'll bet most of you have seen a decent factory calibration on S-video and Interlaced DVD. Guess they don't get around to setting up a seperate one for progressive DVD.

Last night I ran a Panasonic RV32 interlaced player and the factory setup looked excellent.

Well turning down the DLP Brightness let my black bars match my off pixels. Didn't have any effect on the level of dithering in the images through. Its only specific scenes in movies that its noticable.
Anyhow, I will just accept that it is due to my own ignorance that I have this problem, since it only seems a couple people are reporting it. Thanks for the tips.

Hi DaGamePimp

Would u mind to tell me what Display card u 're using.
what are the resolution and refresh rate ?
And how to get the best picture out of H30 with my HTPC

parstpt ,
--- I use a Radeon 9500 Pro [ modded to 9700 spec. ] - any 9200 or higher Radeon will deliver an outstanding image and if you want a silent card there are fanless Radeon 9600's .
--- 800x600 @ 60Hz [ which is native for the H30 = Pixel Mapped ] .
--- DVD playback software is crucial here as well . I currently use Forceware Multimedia Player (beta) from Nvidia as it delivers the best PQ that I have seen from any dvd playback software [ this player should be available very soon for purchase ] . I actually only use the filters from the Nvidia player [ not the player itself ] with ZoomPlayer Pro as my front end (gui) . There are many tweaks from there but it would take another 5000 posts to get into all the fine details ;) [ all that you could ever want to know is already in the HTPC forum ... and then some :D ] .

--- If you want a real treat grab WMV9-HD from Microsoft and then get Coral Reef Adventures or T2 Extreme Edition and behold the beauty of the best and only HiDef dvd playback software currently available .


----------- Jason

About that 800x600 @ 60hz.

I myself get far from optimal picture on that setting (text looks scaled etc.) but if i crank it up to 75 hz or 85hz the picture becomes crystal clear. Same thing if i tune it down to 56hz... what's up with that? Is it because I have a "PAL firmware"?

Personally I prefer using 75hz since it syncs with PAL (multiple of 3) so the movie playback doesn't have any tearing or jerkiness.

Originally posted by hikarate
I'm with you Flea. How long is your cable run?
It is interested that Dithering is noted as a known weakness of single chip DLP. Thats what made me decide not to try and fix this issue with my pj. But if others aren't suffering with the problem then it must just be our config.

I'm running non-progressive DVD player and letting the H30 do the deinterlacing. Maybe that ties in with the problem.
When I had it on the 50ft S-video run the dithering was even worse, but so was everything else.

.

I have 25 ft belden 1505 RGB cables from blue jeans.
Panny XP30 running progressive.

I would not think I have any week points in my set up.

What I think is interesting is not much is usually mentioned about DLP dithering...everyone seems to yak about resolution, contrast, etc., but at least to me, dithering is the most noticeable artifact on the screen, I'm not at all bothered by the actual pixel size. Why is it that no one, not magazine reviewers, on-line reviewers, ad-copy, seems to make much if any mention about this?

I have reduced the dithering on my H30's to a much, much lower level than the totally whacked out of the box settings, but it’s still there in dark scenes and more noticeable than the pixel sizes----BUT, from a normal viewing distance, 1.75 to 2X screen widths, it is not normally noticeable. Then point is I can still see dithering long before pixel structure.

I can get my absolute blacks to be black (mirrors off), no dithering. It's the in between absolute black and lighter shades of black and dark colors that the dithering rears it's ugly head. Admittedly this can be more apparent on some movies than others....but just about all of them have it on my H30.
Also, I have yet to get my newer H30 to look as smooth as my older one, I don't know how much it matters that the lamp only has 9 hrs on it?

I must say though, if Jason and Tom can get non-dithering smooth pictures from their H30's (even when looking at the screen from a couple of feet away), then I certainly have some work to do.

I also hope that I don't end up pulling my hair out trying to calibrate the dithering away when it might be a noisy pwr supply causing it, or that maybe I'm already at the dithering smoothness capability of this projector (But Jason and Tom claim to have No dithering??).

Fleaman

Quarterbrain ,

--- Yes , you are correct if you have a PAL H30 [ sorry I should have mentioned this in my post ;) .

___________________________

Fleaman ,

--- Dithering is just a known issue with DLP and if you can get the image stable from your viewing distance(s) then that is really all that matters [ don't beat yourself up trying get a perfect image at 2 ft. away with any digital since only CRT projection can actually do so ... at least from my experience ] .

-- There is a reason for the suggested minimum view distance ;) .

-- The amount of dithering you have could be another issue altogether if it is really as bad as you say and the unit could certainly be the culprit IMO . However consider that I am unable to get rid of the Dithering from any source other than a pixel mapped HTPC . All the dvd players that I have tried with the H30 have shown some dithering [ as does the Xbox ] and even my HiDef cable box has some very slight dithering [ Motorola 6200 fed via component to VGA adapter ] .


----------- Jason

Originally posted by fleaman
What I think is interesting is not much is usually mentioned about DLP dithering...everyone seems to yak about resolution, contrast, etc., but at least to me, dithering is the most noticeable artifact on the screen, I'm not at all bothered by the actual pixel size. Why is it that no one, not magazine reviewers, on-line reviewers, ad-copy, seems to make much if any mention about this?


Flea, being new to the PJ world, this is the first I have heard of this issue. I have read hundreds of pages about DLP, LCD, LCOS etc over the past month but never read anything about dithering issues. I'm glad you mentioned it because this would surely bug the heck out of me too. Right up there with the buzzing issue!

So is this something that is unique to DLP? Is LCD not affected by this? Are some DLP machines worse than others for dithering?

The last thing I want to see after plunking down $2k for a PJ is to have dithering issues in every dark scene with smoke, fog, steam etc.

Well the fun had to end someday. I just had the green bar problem. I was running an interlaced component signal from my Q50 and the H30 lost the signal and then displayed the green bar. I disconnected the cable, attached the composite cable and saw the same thing, just a green bar. This is really annoying--with my luck I'll send it in for repair and get a buzzer or something. :(

I've also noticed that blacks are very noticeably red when using the DVD player(s) with both progressive/component and composite video. This problem doesn't occur when using the VGA output from my Powerbook. How do I go about trying to fix this?

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

I tried other refresh rates at 75hz, 85hz and 56hz with NTSC and I still find the 60hz the most stable without any tearing or sparklies.
Mind you I am running 800x450 with powerstrip settings which give me a 16:9 desktop so it works perfectly with ym 16:9 screen. See my link. You will see on the closeup of the powerstrip settings that the text looks like it is pixel correct. It is very clear too.

PowerStrip timing parameters:
800x450=800,48,128,80,450,85,4,89,39937,272
once entered it will go to 80hz and I turn it down to 60hz. When I try to run 800x450 @ 80 hz the H30 resync and thinks its 120hz..really bizzare.

New Techo Joe was at my place last night and he did a couple of tweaks that gave better saturation on the colors. I still have to work on those "swirlies" or "dithering" in dark scenes though. I hope to take some new pics this weekend of screenshots with the changes Joe made.




Originally posted by Quarterbrain
About that 800x600 @ 60hz.

I myself get far from optimal picture on that setting (text looks scaled etc.) but if i crank it up to 75 hz or 85hz the picture becomes crystal clear. Same thing if i tune it down to 56hz... what's up with that? Is it because I have a "PAL firmware"?

Personally I prefer using 75hz since it syncs with PAL (multiple of 3) so the movie playback doesn't have any tearing or jerkiness.

New Techo Joe was at my place last night and he did a couple of tweaks that gave better saturation on the colors. I stll have to work on those swirlies in dark scenes though. I hope to take some new pics this weekend of screenshots with the changes Joe made.


saturn glad you like it ;) but when i come back to do a full blown calibration we will clean as much of the distortion as we can :)


because i am a perfectionist but also realest so we will get this sucker as close to "optimal" as we can :)


ps and another note this was one of the best h30 that i have seen so far for factory setup , but there was still some work to do on the pj , and with the 2.2 gain screen made things a little funky for the normal guy to get a good pic ,but i can say i was really impressed with the pick after things where done ,detail increased alot and also black level was great and color saturation was as good as i have seen on the h30 , so all in all worked out very well , and thanks Saturn for the hospitality you and wife showed it was a pleasure spending time with your family :)

Hey Flea,

I have the exact same problem you describe. A black test pattern looks great from seating distance, but you get into dark shades of gray scenes next to black on a DVD and its noticable. The 2 scenes I have had the hardest time with are in Harry Potter and the Sorceror's Stone and Spider Man:

Possible Spoiler if for some reason you haven't seen these movies :)
.
.
.
.
.
.


HP
Right before the kids have to go into the forest. When they are talking with Hagrid about Norbert. The scene with the kids and the groundskeeper. The forest behind them, lots of dithering.

SM
End of movie when Goblin gives Spidey the choice of who to save. The skyline between the dark blue in black in some of the scenes here. Not a specific one like in HP, just kinda shows up through out this after Goblin makes the drop.

I think Pimp has something here with seeing different levels of this based on whats hooked up to it. The best thing to do is hook up a PC and see how that looks. If the PC looks fine then this isn't a problem with the H30.

On a side note I have looked through the HTPC forum but could make out what I was looking for.
Just a good Audio card <$200 that will pass DTS and DD over optical cable. I read about the cheaper M-audio cards having to be manually toggled for this, I don't want to do that. I just want the cheapest audio card I can get that supports both DTS and DD. USB or PCI, no front panel though, I don't have any open on my PC. Any suggestions Pimp?

Shadow, go ahead and get an H30 so you can work through all this stuff with us:) Tom and Pimp don't have dithering so it is fixable. You are going to have to do some work to get the best image no matter what you decide to buy. The H30 is the best value, go for it. And thats from a guy that is having several problems with it. If you go buy something else you aren't going to find guys like Tom, Mike, and Jason to help you out.
Unless your waiting for the 4805 I say go for it.

The dithering this is not necessarily unique to DLP. I have seen it in some LCDs. It is more prominent on some than the others. The only thing is that is it is more prominent on the H30 at FACTORY settings. Tom has outlined before(I think it was him) that you need to adjust the factory settings and it disappears to a certain degree. My X1 once calibrated did not show any of those issues. Actually at factory setting is was none existent. Mind you the picture is pretty dim at FACTORY setting. You needed to increase gamma a tad bit. But then your picture is washed out.

For the users that do not have this dithering issues do you guys remember what you did to make it less prominent?


Originally posted by UnknownShadow
Flea, being new to the PJ world, this is the first I have heard of this issue. I have read hundreds of pages about DLP, LCD, LCOS etc over the past month but never read anything about dithering issues. I'm glad you mentioned it because this would surely bug the heck out of me too. Right up there with the buzzing issue!

So is this something that is unique to DLP? Is LCD not affected by this? Are some DLP machines worse than others for dithering?

The last thing I want to see after plunking down $2k for a PJ is to have dithering issues in every dark scene with smoke, fog, steam etc.

saturn the dithering is a part of this pj because the only way to get read of all the dithering is a faster segment wheel and use the new color wheel , and the new chip will help minimize the dither but with your 2.2 screen it will bring out more imperfections but also give the pic more pop so you can see there is a trade off there



ps but the hd dvd looked nice :)

HK:
Do not get the USB M-audio card...or most USB audio. I have tried both the USB version of M-audio & SB and the DTS/DD passthrough does not work properly. It sends a digital signal...but it is processed so your receiver will only see Dolby Digital Pro Logic. The digital signal is AC3 and/or PCM. What you want is the RAW unprocessed signal. The first card that worked for me is the M-audio Revolution 7.1 PCI card. It passes the unprocessed digital signal to my Pioneer Elite and detects DD Ex and/or DTS ES. The Revolution is $140 cdn (~$100 USD)

With all the bruhaha I hear about the 4805 it doesn't seems as promising.

Pros:
native 16:9
DVI(HDCP)

Cons:
no Faroudja
loud and noisy
same cheap looking casing as the X1
how you going to sync a HTPC to its rather awkward 854x480 rez
brought down the lumens..the X1 wasnt that bright to begin with.

the first 2 cons are 2 important factors needed by the average audio/video enthusiasts

ps: If you take away some of the issues that some has been experiencing ie. buzzing, green bar, orange light start...the H30 puts out picture like...umm nevermind...you know what I mean.

Originally posted by hikarate

I think Pimp has something here with seeing different levels of this based on whats hooked up to it. The best thing to do is hook up a PC and see how that looks. If the PC looks fine then this isn't a problem with the H30.

On a side note I have looked through the HTPC forum but could make out what I was looking for.
Just a good Audio card <$200 that will pass DTS and DD over optical cable. I read about the cheaper M-audio cards having to be manually toggled for this, I don't want to do that. I just want the cheapest audio card I can get that supports both DTS and DD. USB or PCI, no front panel though, I don't have any open on my PC. Any suggestions Pimp?

Shadow, go ahead and get an H30 so you can work through all this stuff with us:) Tom and Pimp don't have dithering so it is fixable. You are going to have to do some work to get the best image no matter what you decide to buy. The H30 is the best value, go for it. And thats from a guy that is having several problems with it. If you go buy something else you aren't going to find guys like Tom, Mike, and Jason to help you out.
Unless your waiting for the 4805 I say go for it.

Do not get the USB M-audio card...or most USB audio. I have tried both the USB version of M-audio & SB and the DTS/DD passthrough does not work properly. It send a digital signal...but it is processed so your receiver will only see Dolby Digital Pro Logic. The digital signal is AC3 and/or PCM. What you want is the RAW unprocessed signal. The first card that worked for me is the M-audio Revolution 7.1 PCI card. It passes the unprocessed digital signal to my Pioneer Elite and detects DD Ex and/or DTS ES. The Revolution is $140 cdn (~$100 USD)



ummm i did not know that cool :) see you learn some thing every day


With all the bruhaha I hear about the 4805 it doesn't seems as promising. Pros:
native 16:9
DVI(HDCP)

Cons:
no Faroudja
loud and noisy
same cheap looking casing as the X1
how you going to sync a HTPC to its rather awkward 854x480 rez
brought down the lumens..the X1 wasnt that bright to begin with.

the first 2 cons are 2 important factors needed by the average audio/video enthusiasts



very well put :D

Thanks Saturn!

That is exactly what I needed to know.

Wow I haven't been keeping up on the 4805 thread obviously. When did they drop DCDI? Oh well Shadow, I guess there isn't any reason at all why you shouldn't go with the H30 then.

Also just wanted to add on the dithering issue that I am sitting 2x screen width away when I notice the problem in the 2 movies I mention above. I also have a very long cable run unlike Fleaman, so that could be the culprit. I will let you know how it goes once I get the PC hooked up to it for viewing. If it makes a drastic difference then I will have to work on setting up an HTPC.

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
Fleaman ,

--- Dithering is just a known issue with DLP and if you can get the image stable from your viewing distance(s) then that is really all that matters [ don't beat yourself up trying get a perfect image at 2 ft. away with any digital since only CRT projection can actually do so ... at least from my experience ] .

-- There is a reason for the suggested minimum view distance ;) .

-- The amount of dithering you have could be another issue altogether if it is really as bad as you say and the unit could certainly be the culprit IMO . However consider that I am unable to get rid of the Dithering from any source other than a pixel mapped HTPC . All the dvd players that I have tried with the H30 have shown some dithering [ as does the Xbox ] and even my HiDef cable box has some very slight dithering [ Motorola 6200 fed via component to VGA adapter ] .
---------- Jason

So it's possible to eliminate dithering when using a HTPC but not a high end DVD player? Interesting...



Originally posted by Saturn_AD
The dithering this is not necessarily unique to DLP. I have seen it in some LCDs. It is more prominent on some than the others. The only thing is that is it is more prominent on the H30 at FACTORY settings. Tom has outlined before(I think it was him) that you need to adjust the factory settings and it disappears to a certain degree. My X1 once calibrated did not show any of those issues. Actually at factory setting is was none existent. Mind you the picture is pretty dim at FACTORY setting. You needed to increase gamma a tad bit. But then your picture is washed out.

My H30 (both of them) was just plain horrid out of the box, hours of calibrating them made them much, much better and the pic is pretty stunning, but the dithering is still more noticeable than the pixel structure (sometimes). There does seem to be a delicate balance of having shadow detail, good blacks, good colors and not having the pic washed out.

X1: Was this with a DVD player? From Jason's post, it would seem like this was only possible with a HTPC.

Fleaman

Actually the 4805 does use the Faroudja chip, but I agree with the other cons.

Regarding the dithering, I can see some in certain scenes of DVDs as well, but it's very slight and virtually imperceptible at a decent viewing distance (I'm currently at 1.8X screen width. The beginning of Harry Potter 1 (in the fog) is also another good test.

hikarate:
I hope some 4805 advocate does see my post and correct me if I am wrong. It might have changed from last I checked the thread.
It still think it is a roll of the dice to get a properly working H30 with no defect. Again I still think it is a minority.
So far mine does not have any of the flaws(knock on wood). And for those who still think I am nuts in turning off the H30 dead cold without proper fan cooldown I am still doing this every night. New Techno Joe saw me do it last inght and he was shaking his head. I made a bet with him that my bulb and/or prjector will last past the year...we shall see.


Originally posted by hikarate
Thanks Saturn!

That is exactly what I needed to know.

Wow I haven't been keeping up on the 4805 thread obviously. When did they drop DCDI? Oh well Shadow, I guess there isn't any reason at all why you shouldn't go with the H30 then.

Regarding the dithering, I can see some in certain scenes of DVDs as well, but it's very slight and virtually imperceptible at a decent viewing distance (I'm currently at 1.8X screen width. The beginning of Harry Potter 1 (in the fog) is also another good test.


proper seating distance sure will help with the dithering .agreed




Actually the 4805 does use the Faroudja chip, but I agree with the other cons



well either way the 4805 is just a juiced up x1 :) , but we will find out soon enough ;)

fleaman:

The pics on my X1 was through a HTPC. It had/hardly no dithering. The pictures were less saturated though and did not have as much black detail than the H30 but it di not have dithering in the blacks.

Originally posted by fleaman

X1: Was this with a DVD player? From Jason's post, it would seem like this was only possible with a HTPC.

Fleaman

Thanks Mike,

Yeah I originally used that first scene a lot, but the later scene has a better contrast between clean bright colors and dithered blacks. It highlights the flaw better. These are both really worst case scenarios, and 85% or more of even these movies don't show any signs of dithering. Just certain scenes it pops up.

Greetings! I've been following this thread since page 1. Wow, what a long thread.

Anyway, FYI: Use coupon ?5K38B69GXGJ4K today and the H30 is yours for [edit: sorry!]. I've been waiting for this sale ($1400 - 10% off - $30 off coupon) for 3-4 months now, since the last time they had it. (It's been easy to wait knowing that Optoma has been revising the firmware and InFocus has been hard at work with competition.)

I can't wait to set it all up!

I was waiting to check out the InFocus 4805 to see if it was brighter, but I've read some preliminary reports suggesting it wasn't. Never a direct comparison though, unfortunately. Anyone see a good hands-on comparison of the two yet?

I worry that the H30 only meets its 800 lumens output in 3:4 mode, not 16:9, whereas the InFocus does 750 lumens already calibrated and in 16:9.

(Ambient light is going to be a problem for me.)

Originally posted by stretchsje
Use coupon ?5K38B69GXGJ4K today and the H30 is yours for $1220 through Dell. I've been waiting for this sale (10% off + $30 off) for 3-4 months now, since the last time they had it.

I can't wait to set it all up!

I was waiting to check out the InFocus 4805 to see if it was brighter, but I've read some preliminary reports suggesting it wasn't. Never a direct comparison though, unfortunately. Anyone see a good hands-on comparison of the two yet? ]


I can't mention price or location, but if I was you there is a deal going from a very good seller with 30day return policy on the 4805 for only $80 more than what you just mentioned, . Which by the way you aren't supposed to be mentioning anyway :) Unless you are really into 4:3, I can't imagine getting the H30 over 4805, even if for the extra 1000 hour bulb life.

By the way, I always thought that there wasn't much of a resolution difference in 16:9 mode. But about 50,000 pixels is significant.

I'm only interested in 16:9, and I admit that was the most compelling reason for waiting for the 4805. But I don't mind cropping the image- the 22 pixels on the left and right are typically not important.

Still, I sent you a PM.

I'm more concerned with brightness than anything else.

Well it's a done deal. I've ordered the H56A (killer deal), Momitsu and a 110" diag. Carada screen.

I really wanted to get the H30 but with the problems I thought it would be better to get the H56.

Anyone with a similar setup? Let me know.

-Dave

Originally posted by entropy
Well the fun had to end someday. I just had the green bar problem. I was running an interlaced component signal from my Q50 and the H30 lost the signal and then displayed the green bar. I disconnected the cable, attached the composite cable and saw the same thing, just a green bar. This is really annoying--with my luck I'll send it in for repair and get a buzzer or something. :(

I've also noticed that blacks are very noticeably red when using the DVD player(s) with both progressive/component and composite video. This problem doesn't occur when using the VGA output from my Powerbook. How do I go about trying to fix this?

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

Check signal lock in the System menu. Usually a machine that get green bar only locks up if you view 1080i for a long time like 2 or 3 hours than a quick switch to 480i and the PJ gets confused and locks up. A good way to avoid it is go from 1080i to 480p and it will never lock up. You s/b using your Q50 in progressive anyway.

To get the red out use the Advanced adjustments, pull back the Red- contrast until the red is gone. If you had to move the Red by 6 change that to 3 and increase Green & Blue by 3 to make a balance. If you're seeing the red still in the blacks do a similar routine with the RGB-brightness in the Advanced adjustments.

Use a movie or use a Grayscale steps pattern with Avia. Look for colors in the shades of gray and black and delete accordingly.

Originally posted by guitarman
Check signal lock in the System menu. Usually a machine that get green bar only locks up if you view 1080i for a long time like 2 or 3 hours than a quick switch to 480i and the PJ gets confused and locks up.

This is exactly what didn't happen. I hadn't switched from anything to anything--I just hooked the Q50 up and after a few minutes it lost the signal and got stuck. Of course now that I want to reproduce it, I can't.

A good way to avoid it is go from 1080i to 480p and it will never lock up. You s/b using your Q50 in progressive anyway.

I know. :confused: (Does anyone use 480i over component inputs? Perhaps there's a new bug here.)
After I switched it it had no problems for an hour or so.

To get the red out use the Advanced adjustments, pull back the Red- contrast until the red is gone. If you had to move the Red by 6 change that to 3 and increase Green & Blue by 3 to make a balance. If you're seeing the red still in the blacks do a similar routine with the RGB-brightness in the Advanced adjustments.

Thanks; I'll try it tonight. It's a pretty bad red.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

"I know. (Does anyone use 480i over component inputs? Perhaps there's a new bug here.)
After I switched it it had no problems for an hour or so."

I use to use 480i for SDTV from my Comcast STB with the first H30. But to avoid the green bar I went into the secret menu on the Motorola and changed 480i to 480p.

You shouldn't drop of of signal with the Q50, take a look at your cables.

Originally posted by stretchsje
I'm only interested in 16:9, and I admit that was the most compelling reason for waiting for the 4805. But I don't mind cropping the image- the 22 pixels on the left and right are typically not important.

Still, I sent you a PM.

I'm more concerned with brightness than anything else.


But remember the cropped pixels are not really 22, if you calculate it, in 16:9 mode you crop 50,000 pixels! In 16:9 native mode you don't lose as much, but it's still significant, and in that mode you can't use a 16:9 screen. Don't forget that.

Hey nice to see the Forum back up so fast !


---- Well I updated a few pics on my Website [ be sure to check them out , some nice HiDef stuff :D ] . I also added the H30 Throw chart [ on page 2 of the Photos section ] .



-- I have been unable to get the current H30 shipped out as of yet [ just been too busy and plan to ship it after the long weekend ] .


---------- Jason

brother jay looks good ;)

Thanks Joe :) .

--- I am still working on taking screen-shots and I hope to be able to do the image justice someday ;) .


--------- Jason

jay did you get a perfect contrast to detail ratio ? because with saturns i was surprised that i hit hmmmm let say 50% improvement and pleasantly surprised considering he has 2.2 gain screen . it was impressive

Now that I got 125hrs on my replacement I went back and put the DLP-brightness back to stock. I was able to just lower the User Advanced RGB/bright a little to get the blacks right and the colors remained ok with no green or red push. Burning up the hours on the new machine.

One thing I thought with the DLP lowering is that the pixel grid became more noticeable. I kept messing with the Phillips Q50 because it's so sharp, I kept tweaking down the players sharpness and turning the Crystal Clear DCDI to Yes & No. But I think all the time is was lowering the DLP-brightness. I started thinking it made the black lines around the pixels more pronounced from the stock level. Who Knows maybe I'm losing it. :)

Tweakers unite!

Originally posted by rsmith4321
In 16:9 native mode you don't lose as much, but it's still significant, and in that mode you can't use a 16:9 screen. Don't forget that.

Actually, for many of today's DVDs that are in 2.35:1 anamorphic, using the Native 16:9 mode works very well with a 16:9 screen. The additional image area on top does not run off the screen like it would with a 1.85:1 anamorphic. I've been trying it both ways for awhile now and although there's really no noticeable difference with the increase in vertical resolution, I like the bigger picture. :D

Originally posted by guitarman
Now that I got 125hrs on my replacement I went back and put the DLP-brightness back to stock. I was able to just lower the User Advanced RGB/bright a little to get the blacks right and the colors remained ok with no green or red push. Burning up the hours on the new machine.

One thing I thought with the DLP lowering is that the pixel grid became more noticeable. I kept messing with the Phillips Q50 because it's so sharp, I kept tweaking down the players sharpness and turning the Crystal Clear DCDI to Yes & No. But I think all the time is was lowering the DLP-brightness. I started thinking it made the black lines around the pixels more pronounced from the stock level. Who Knows maybe I'm losing it. :)

Tweakers unite!

Is it still unknown whether the DLP brightness control is any different than the RGB brightness in the advance menu? Other than it affecting all signals and adjusting RGB brightness levels equally, is there any other advantage or disadvantage to the DLP brightness controls?

And what about the DLP Contrast controls, do you ever mess with these?

Also, DLP brightness only affects the RGB brightness, correct? Since there is a separate DLP Contrast control? I have to get into the RGB brightness and contrast settings to get my picture watchable, so adjusting only the DLP brightness would still mean I would probably still have the same RGB contrast adjustments, I guess....

Fleaman

Originally posted by entropy
This is exactly what didn't happen. I hadn't switched from anything to anything--I just hooked the Q50 up and after a few minutes it lost the signal and got stuck. Of course now that I want to reproduce it, I can't.



I know. :confused: (Does anyone use 480i over component inputs? Perhaps there's a new bug here.)
After I switched it it had no problems for an hour or so.



Thanks; I'll try it tonight. It's a pretty bad red.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

I was using 480i for about 3 weeks before I started using vga from the htpc. During this time, I did not get any green bar. And I was not switching sources, just had the dvd player connected to the h30.

Hi,

Well, i gotten my H30 for 280+ hours , so far the PJ quality is very nice indeed. I had painted my diy screen pearl white and it works very well.

Well im a bit unlucky using this projector.

1) I got a dead pixel at B zone, agent is getting a replacement for dmd chip
2) My PJ ofthen throws out picture that is above the intended screen and could not switch between screen size. Have to relog the PJ to reset, the worst i get is 4 x in a row. I had recently found out that you can access the service menu and everytime the service menu is accessed , the PJ will do a hardware reset and it becomes normal again. Im having c04 firmware. This problem is pain in the ... .
3) Wheezing sound, well after the PJ is running and the sounds from the movies is out, doesnt bother me at all. so this part not a problem.
4 ) the wierdest problem happen yesterday, i used the projector for 2 hours, then the projector just totally power down immediately, i could almost hear a short buzz. Then I cant turn it on for some time from the main socket ( no flashing of the projector power button even). I left it alone till the next morning, and vuala everything is normal again. After 1 hour of viewing , Poof the PJ drop dead out of sudden, wierd huh. I been following this thread and i dont remember comming across this wierd issue.

I had a APC power surge protector and UPS for this PJ.

sign off

pisangbusuk

Good question Flea. Whats up with the DLP Contrast? I was wondering that too. After turning down the DLP brightness I was able to get the black bars to match the off pixels. I couldn't do this at the stock setting. Still have dithering problem, but that could be caused by something else. I need to get my PC hooked up to this thing and compare to see if its the pj or the dvd player. Also need to run some short cables to see if that is the difference. All that will have to wait for after the holiday though. My fiancee is in love with the picture and thinks I am crazy. She just wants to watch movies.

Hi guy's i want buy a PJ for movies and gaming. Which one is good, H30 or PB 6200? i'm from indonesia and i never see both of them.:confused:
Thanx guy's!!!!

The DLP-C/B control goes straight to the DLP Chip. Wing says each set of RGB controls and there's three of them work on different parts of the circuitry. ADP on one area Picture RGB & DLP-RGB. They're all working on the gray so it's a name your poison.

The way I see the breakdown. ADP/rgb is more dynamic and effects all signals. Picture in the service area effects all the signals, DLP/rgb effects all the signals and is directly working with the DLP/chip. User RGB is the last and there for adjusting individual signals.

I'm not certain yet whether DLP/rgb is best to use while the other RGB will basically have the same effect. I'm thinking maybe leave the DLP alone and let the chip act like is at factory. My DLP factorys are
DLP-brightness all at 32
DLP-contrast all at 32

Originally posted by guitarman
I'm thinking maybe leave the DLP along and let the chip act like is at factory. My DLP factorys are
DLP-brightnes all at 32
DLP-contast all at 32

I agree with that, Tom. If memory serves, I believe they're all set at 32.

Originally posted by brotexz!
Hi guy's i want buy a PJ for movies and gaming. Which one is good, H30 or PB 6200? i'm from indonesia and i never see both of them.:confused:
Thanx guy's!!!!

The H30 will have a more pleasing picture, the 6200 has more pixels.

Originally posted by Pisangbusuk
Hi,

Well, i gotten my H30 for 280+ hours , so far the PJ quality is very nice indeed. I had painted my diy screen pearl white and it works very well.

Well im a bit unlucky using this projector.

1) I got a dead pixel at B zone, agent is getting a replacement for dmd chip
2) My PJ ofthen throws out picture that is above the intended screen and could not switch between screen size. Have to relog the PJ to reset, the worst i get is 4 x in a row. I had recently found out that you can access the service menu and everytime the service menu is accessed , the PJ will do a hardware reset and it becomes normal again. Im having c04 firmware. This problem is pain in the ... .
3) Wheezing sound, well after the PJ is running and the sounds from the movies is out, doesnt bother me at all. so this part not a problem.
4 ) the wierdest problem happen yesterday, i used the projector for 2 hours, then the projector just totally power down immediately, i could almost hear a short buzz. Then I cant turn it on for some time from the main socket ( no flashing of the projector power button even). I left it alone till the next morning, and vuala everything is normal again. After 1 hour of viewing , Poof the PJ drop dead out of sudden, wierd huh. I been following this thread and i dont remember comming across this wierd issue.

I had a APC power surge protector and UPS for this PJ.

sign off

pisangbusuk

Could be the PJ just got hot. What was the temp in the room at the time? Keep your eye on it if the room is cool and it powers down you should hv it dhecked out at Optoma.

I have a little over 120 hours on my H30 and I am still absolutely loving it. The buzzing is still on and off and I am still deciding whether or not to send it in. Well thx again everyone and ill report in with buzzing prob again.

Re the buzzing color wheels, some it's goes away and some never have it. I'd say if it's not blasting loud and you enjoy the movies hang in there. We'll see later how Optoma with comes up with a fix. The good thing is we have a two year warranty and you can deal with the fix at any time in the two years. Maybe the wheel will smooth out also.

Well boys, I went and bought a THIRD H30 unit at the local Fry's. It was also a H30A, and I really wanted to check out the buzzing issue a bit more.

Bad news...this one was clearly a buzzer, too. That makes me three-for-three, all from different sources (Dell, Optoma, and Fry's). The only similarity was that they were all H30A's (new lens mask, new backlit remote, etc).

This is not encouraging. I'm going to go buy a microphone for my computer when I go back to return this unit later today, and I'll try and record my buzzing unit for you all, so you can at least tell me if it's the same thing all you "whisper quiet" boys are hearing from your units, or if mine's the "buzzer" that about 14 or more of us now have heard.

Maybe this IS the way the unit is supposed to sound...I just find it hard to believe most of you aren't annoyed by this sound. Compared to other projectors, in the price range and even less expensive, these H30's I've tried have been loud. I'll get back to everyone later, hopefully with an audio sample of the noise I hear.

Cheers, all. Here's to hoping it IS a defect with the new batch.

PS. The two units I have here are from different dates. One's QC'd on the 15th of April, the other the 24th.

good evening gents... london calling [the clash]

I' am sitting here on a hot balmy night in old london town, all the windows are open and the fan is on overdrive which is blowing the cigar smoke from my slim panatela, straight back into my eyes. I can hear an argument between a guy and girl in the distance, she seems to have been short changed... [scene set].

so... H30. honest opinion from you guys, is it worth it, or is it too much hassle. rtb seems to be the order of the day. are all pj's like this. sounds like great picture quality but does anyone actually manage to watch a film on it all the way through without a green bar or a mysterious buzzing noise or the dreaded POP!!!
does anyone know if H56 is more stable re the H30 issues in this thread or does it have issues of it's own. what optics does it use, cheap plastic or quality glass.

cash is on standby for the H30, but I need your honest advice, I may wait a few months while keeping an eye on this thread, or can you convince me to splash the cash.
any following posts will be shorter.

Valk, pretty bad luck or maybe you got bit by a wherewolf.

Hey you wanna hear the sound, go to the Japan shootout site. Paste it to Altavista, trans from Japanese to Eng.

Down at the bottom ot the site it's got fan sounds of the three.

http://www.ippinkan.co.jp/pj_test/H30/page_1.htm

Originally posted by zola
good evening gents... london calling [the clash]

I' am sitting here on a hot balmy night in old london town, all the windows are open and the fan is on overdrive which is blowing the cigar smoke from my slim panatela, straight back into my eyes. I can hear an argument between a guy and girl in the distance, she seems to have been short changed... [scene set].

so... H30. honest opinion from you guys, is it worth it, or is it too much hassle. rtb seems to be the order of the day. are all pj's like this. sounds like great picture quality but does anyone actually manage to watch a film on it all the way through without a green bar or a mysterious buzzing noise or the dreaded POP!!!
does anyone know if H56 is more stable re the H30 issues in this thread or does it have issues of it's own. what optics does it use, cheap plastic or quality glass.

cash is on standby for the H30, but I need your honest advice, I may wait a few months while keeping an eye on this thread, or can you convince me to splash the cash.
any following posts will be shorter.

What brand of cigar? :)

I'll still stand with my orginal review. Very light screen door (very important) Super colors and blacks, plenty bright - lights up the screen. It's up to you, you wanna take a chance? you just might end up with what I just stated. :)
good luck

Tom - Wow...thanks for that link. Mine is DEFINITELY Not that sound. For those of you that want the links to the sounds of H30, here you go:

http://www.ippinkan.co.jp/pj_test/H30/H30.wav


I have another question. Does anyone here have the discrete power-on and power-off codes for the H30? I'm setting up my HTM MX-800, and having the discretes would be quite helpful to avoid accidental power-on/off of the H30.

Thanks. I'll be back with my sound in a bit.

Okay, here's a recording from my H30. This is at about 6-inches (the mic wouldn't pick it up much farter than that). The buzzing sounds just about this loud with respect to the fan at any distance. It is always a bit louder than the fan, just as the clip sounds. See if any of you with "buzzers" have heard this sound.

http://www.geocities.com/valkyrie.rm/

Thanks,

Valk

Originally posted by zola
good evening gents... london calling [the clash]

I' am sitting here on a hot balmy night in old london town, all the windows are open and the fan is on overdrive which is blowing the cigar smoke from my slim panatela, straight back into my eyes. I can hear an argument between a guy and girl in the distance, she seems to have been short changed... [scene set].

so... H30. honest opinion from you guys, is it worth it, or is it too much hassle. rtb seems to be the order of the day. are all pj's like this. sounds like great picture quality but does anyone actually manage to watch a film on it all the way through without a green bar or a mysterious buzzing noise or the dreaded POP!!!
does anyone know if H56 is more stable re the H30 issues in this thread or does it have issues of it's own. what optics does it use, cheap plastic or quality glass.

cash is on standby for the H30, but I need your honest advice, I may wait a few months while keeping an eye on this thread, or can you convince me to splash the cash.
any following posts will be shorter.
Hi zola
I second Toms views
I live in London too but the only smoke I get is from the London traffic (cough cough) on a serious note it is the best pj under 2g you will see it leaves 50" plasmas 4 dead but make sure you get the right gear to compliment it ie: prog dvd & comp cables not scart.
indie

Valk, thanks for the .wav file. That's similar to the one I have here, maybe a little higher pitched, but the one I have is just as loud. Other than Kiran's who's buzz only occurred once, I've only had this one out of the 20 or so H30s I've gone through that had the buzz.

Regarding discretes, I haven't found any. I have one macro turn on the projector, then wait about 10 seconds to turn on the DVD player. The "off" macro sends the Power signal twice with a one second delay between them. If you want to make it harder to accidently turn on (or even off) the projector, use push-and-hold macros.

Originally posted by guitarman
Could be the PJ just got hot. What was the temp in the room at the time? Keep your eye on it if the room is cool and it powers down you should hv it dhecked out at Optoma.

Yes, i will get it checked , thank you for advice.

I also think that its some kind of circuit breaker caused by overheating, but my room is air = conditioned , and pretty cold. I guess maybe the fan or some other cooling mechanism knocked out for a while or something.

Funny thing again, i manage to turn on the projector for 4 hours last nite, not a single problem... Well, this instability is driving me peanuts .....I hope i get a full RMA this time ..

Originally posted by valkyrie
Okay, here's a recording from my H30. This is at about 6-inches (the mic wouldn't pick it up much farter than that). The buzzing sounds just about this loud with respect to the fan at any distance. It is always a bit louder than the fan, just as the clip sounds. See if any of you with "buzzers" have heard this sound.

http://www.geocities.com/valkyrie.rm/

Thanks,

Valk

Yup, sounds like my familiar H30 buzz to me. My newer H30's buzz goes away after about 30 minutes to an hour (although last night it took about 1 1/2 hrs for it to go away).

BTW valkyrie, those 2 different recordings of the H30 clearly demonstrate the difference of a buzzer to a non-buzzer!

Fleaman

Thats my Buzz!

mine too! reminds me of home :rolleyes:

-rep

When I went to Fry's last night, I played around with some of the other projectors there. I found another optoma on display (EzPro 7xx series). I powered it up, and heard the buzz, then within a few seconds...it disappeared and was fan-quiet. I'm guessing this is the way most of these projectors are SUPPOSED to be. I'm just glad I'm in good company, haha. I've got a reminder to check in with Optoma on Thursday, so we'll see if the techs have made any progress.

Hi
is anyone having probs with lip sync
is it the length of cable I am using mine is 25ft
how do I fix this problem
thanx

indie

indie, you would have to adjust for it with your receiver. many have controls to adjust the audio delay. a long cable may indeed be the culprit, but a good receiver will allow you to correct for it.

hello to all from Portugal...

if i buy a h30 in states, this projector works fine with 220 volts ???
or i need a converssor?!
thks and regards

I have been trying to optimize the picture quality. I am quite happy with the picture but it could be sharper than it currently is.

There are four modes (film, video, graphics, PC) that seem to affect the picture but there is no information available regarding the effects of these.

Does this setting affect the de-interlacer operation or picture somehow or can I get similar results by changing contrast/brightness/gamma/color values. :confused:

Originally posted by valkyrie
When I went to Fry's last night, I played around with some of the other projectors there. I found another optoma on display (EzPro 7xx series). I powered it up, and heard the buzz, then within a few seconds...it disappeared and was fan-quiet. I'm guessing this is the way most of these projectors are SUPPOSED to be. I'm just glad I'm in good company, haha. I've got a reminder to check in with Optoma on Thursday, so we'll see if the techs have made any progress.

My H30 always buzzes quite loud at startup (just like valkeries recording) but stops buzzing after around half a minute just as you see the lamp come up to full brightness.

Having become somewhat paranoid about buzzin (thanks guys) I contacted Optoma who said the noise was from the lamp choke and that it wasn't a problem unless the buzzing remained.

Could this be the source of the buzzing, I'm not an electrician but I've certainly heard noisy chokes in strip lights that you would certainly describe as buzzing loudly?

Incidentally there have been no accounts of H30's buzzing on UK forums that I'm aware of although I realise there would have been many more units sold in the US.
The power supply in the UK is 240V at 50cycles, is it possible to feed a US buzzer with this power feed and see if the buzzin stops?


Just over 50 hours so far and no other problems, still often find myself looking at the picture in awe instead of taking in the film.

Regards MikeDes

Originally posted by mikedes
The power supply in the UK is 240V at 50cycles, is it possible to feed a US buzzer with this power feed and see if the buzzin stops? Unless there's a 110/240v switch on the unit, feeding a US unit 240/50 will most certainly make the buzzing stop. It'll never buzz again. Ever. For any reason. Though it might pop and bzzzt for a little bit.

I have mine at a 50ft VGA coax cable and I do not experience the issue.
As some said earlier some receivers can compensate for this but you need to check if your receiver has this function.

Originally posted by indiejones
Hi
is anyone having probs with lip sync
is it the length of cable I am using mine is 25ft
how do I fix this problem
thanx

indie





Has anyone touched the bottom of the unit after viewing. I never realized that the bottom aluminum casing had 2 functions. To cover/house and to dissipate heat. I pick up my unit during operation and I almost burnt my fingers and dropped it. Do you guy experience the same level of heat? Not that I want you guys to burn your fingers. :eek:

Originally posted by xamphear
Unless there's a 110/240v switch on the unit, feeding a US unit 240/50 will most certainly make the buzzing stop. It'll never buzz again. Ever. For any reason. Though it might pop and bzzzt for a little bit.

I'm pretty certain that the H30 automatically configures to ac power supplies from 100v to 240V.
I would certainly urge anyone wanting to try it to check before doing so though.

Regards, MikeDes

Has anyone touched the bottom of the unit after viewing. I never realized that the bottom aluminum casing had 2 functions. To cover/house and to dissipate heat. I pick up my unit during operation and I almost burnt my fingers and dropped it. Do you guy experience the same level of heat? Not that I want you guys to burn your fingers



oh yeah this puppy gets hot :) ,i remember almost the\same thing happened to me . LOL :D

hello to all from Portugal...

if i buy a h30 in states, this projector works fine with 220 volts ???

I bought mine from the US and use it in Israel with no problems at all...(so far ;) )

guitarman / indiejones

I will bow to your knowledge and experience and go for the H30, sounds great
just got to find a demo in couple of weeks

cheers
all the best

and from a calibration point of view this pj dials in as good as any that i have seen and worked on ;)


for an svga machine it is very impressive .

Hi all! Been away for a few days. Was glad to see that I only had a handful of pages to catch up on. At times I think there has been like 5 pages a day :)

So that's what a buzzer sounds like? I wouldn't be able to take that if it was any louder than the fan. That's annoying!

I had my first hard power down about three nights ago when we lost power for an hour and a half. I was crossing my fingers big time when I powered it back up and everything came back fine.

Cheers!

Well just noticed another new issue with my current H30 :( .
--- The Blue segment of the pixel structure has become very blurry and has spread out on both sides of each pixel . So imagine a white line of pixels with a blue glow on both sides of the line . This problem just seems to have developed all on its own since nothing has been touched and the focus is still pixel perfect [ other than the blue glow ] .

--- Very odd issue for digital , reminds me of CRT with slightly out of focus blues . A Blue pixel used to be just as sharp as any other and I had no bleeding of color from any pixels [ using 1:1 mapping ] .


-------- Jason

Originally posted by indiejones
Hi
is anyone having probs with lip sync
is it the length of cable I am using mine is 25ft
how do I fix this problem
thanx

indie

Hi Indie
I've also got the lip sync issue but I'm unsure if it's a prob with the H30 or the way I've got all my SCART leads connected.
I initially noticed it when watching something on the H30 AND the TV at the same time - there was a very small delay in the H30 image vs the TV - Not really noticable unless you looked hard, but I'd suspected there was a small sync issue for some time and this just confirmed it.

I have a BIG sync issue with the latest LoTR DVD I bought last week with some scenes being upto half a second out of sync - but I think my LoTR's DVD may be dodgy as sometimes it doesn't play correctly anyway.

Does anyone have any tips of this sync issue - Could it be the deinterlacer causing the delay?
By the way, in in the UK using PAL DVD's and the H30 is connected using SCART.

Cheers :)

Thanks for the recording of the buzzing. I was hoping to hear what it sounded like.

Mine by the way, does not make that sound or have any issues at all.

I noticed a very slight lip sync delay on one of my DVDs this weekend
(Superbit Labyrinth).
Haven't noticed it on any of the others though. It was very slight though.
50' VGA cable and interlaced.
Haven't tried ROTK yet, if I have sync issues with that I'll let you know.

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
--- The Blue segment of the pixel structure has become very blurry and has spread out on both sides of each pixel.

That is odd for a digital. Just to rule out the source, does it appear on all signal sources?

First off, I am a newbie to AVS Forum and have never owned a projector before a month ago. Thanks to all who contribute to AVS Forum and projectorcentral.com.

Here's my X1/H30 projector experience so far:

A little over a month ago, we bought an Infocus X1 and tried it out. Picture quality (and size!) was great and all, but there was an annoying horizontal bar of blurriness/waviness that remained static through about 4" of the top part of the screen. It only did this on DVD playback and VHS playback. Not on Xbox, not on DVD menu screens...only on playback. If we played a movie and paused it, we could still see the pixels blurring and dancing around at the top of the screen. Since it was at the top of the screen, we could only see it during 4:3 content, such as Buffy and Futurama DVDs.

So, we decided to take back our original X1 and exchange it for another one, figuring we'd just gotten a bum projector. The new one did the same exact thing in the same exact place. At this point, we figured it was something with our setup - not the projector. So, we did some research and all roads pointed to a ground loop problem. A ground loop occurs when your video display device is plugged into a different outlet than your other A/V equipment. An extra grounding path is created between the video display device and each other piece of equipment sending it a signal. This is bad, because you only want your sensitive electronics to have one grounding path. The symptoms are usually a horizontal bar that moves up or down the screen, sometimes distorting the picture in the process. Ground loops frequently occur in projector setups because the projector is usually too far away to plug into the same outlet as the other A/V equipment.

Even though the ground loop symptom description did not match our symptom, I decided to rule it out by installing a completely new isolated 20A branch circuit off the main service panel that only fed the projector and A/V equipment. It didn't help. I also tried plugging the projector into an old Isobar line conditioner I had bought a few years back, just to see if it was a problem with the quality of our electrical service. No change. The only other solution I read about required plugging the A/V signal cables (S-video, component, and composite) into an expensive ground loop isolator before passing the signal on to the projector. Instead of spending $200 - $500 each for the different ground loop isolators we'd need, we decided to take the X1 back and get a different projector altogether. The logic was, if this new projector did the same exact thing, we would KNOW it was our problem and not the projector's.

I had been reading good things about the Optoma H30. It seemed like a nice upgrade from the X1, so we ordered an H30 from Consumer Direct Warehouse (consumer-direct.com) because it was $20 cheaper than Buy.com. When it came in the mail, we could tell immediately that this unit had already been shipped to someone else. The box was all torn up and there was a shipping label to someone else scribbled over with a pen. Everything inside the box had already been tampered with. The lens cap was scratched up, the remote already had batteries in it, and all of the cables were loose. We were disappointed, but decided that if it worked, that's all that really mattered. So we hooked it up and were not surprised when it wouldn't turn on. We tried everything we could think of but it would never power on. The orange light was flashing, which according to the manual meant the bulb was dead. We sent the unit back and vowed to never do business with Consumer Direct Warehouse again.

We then ordered another H30, this time from Buy.com. This one arrived in new condition, with a backlit remote and lens mask, meaning that it was one of the newer firmware versions. We hooked it up and everything went great. The picture had noticeably fewer rainbows than the X1. With the X1, I noticed the rainbows quite a bit (several times during a movie), and I could ALWAYS see them if I looked for them (i.e., darting my eyes around). With the H30, I never notice the rainbows during a movie, and most of the time I still can't see them even if I'm looking for them. Plus, the black levels are much better than the X1. I'm using component video cables and the colors and black levels are just amazing. The image looks like it pops right off the screen, similar to demo models of plasma displays I've seen. My next goal is to buy a calibration DVD to set my colors up correctly.

Oh, and did I mention that the H30 did not have the horizontal bar of waviness I got on the X1? Yeah, I guess it was the projector's fault afterall. I can't believe how this hasn't been mentioned before in the X1 forums. I know there are a lot pickier people out there than me (I'm not a videophile) and I noticed it.

Anyway, I'm SO spoiled on the H30 now. I only have 12 hours on the lamp so far, so it's a little early to say everything is peachy. I have noticed a few quirks with the H30 that are annoying, though.

First, when we send a component progressive (480p) signal to the projector, it has a flicker at the top edge of the screen that is only noticable when playing 4:3 content. The workaround for this is for us to send the projector an interlaced (480i) signal when playing 4:3 content. Not a big deal for me, but it might be a big deal for some. I haven't determined whether this problem is caused by my DVD player (a Pioneer DV-563A) or the projector or something else. I don't have another DVD player with component outputs to test with.

Second, when we switch from progressive to interlaced signals from our DVD player/Xbox, it will lose the signal and we get the black screen with a green bar problem mentioned on the H30 forum and in the H30 FAQ. Fortunately, I've read about the workaround for this, so we tend to follow the advice on the forum and leave the video source in either interlaced or progressive for the duration the projector is on. If we want to switch, we do so and then power the projector off and then on again after it has cooled. This seems to work well, but is admittedly an annoying problem that should have never made it out of Quality Assurance. I do hope Optoma fixes this issue on the H30.

Other than those issues, everything is going great (only 12 lamp hours so far, though...). The picture quality is very rich, with vibrant colors and deep blacks. I never notice rainbows during movies now, even in dark scenes with high contrast. The screen door effect is a little more noticable on this unit than the X1, but I'm running the H30 ever-so-slightly out of focus to compensate. It's not noticable, and helps smooth the image for movies. For the XBox, I leave it in focus.

It's a little early for me to give this projector my unconditional recommendation - I've only had it for a weekend. However, if it continues to perform as well as it has so far, I will definitely be giving it two enthusiastic thumbs up!

Originally posted by Easy Rhino
The screen door effect is a little more noticable on this unit than the X1, but I'm running the H30 ever-so-slightly out of focus to compensate.

Wow, that's the first time I've heard that one... H30 with more screendoor than the X1?

Are you using the exact same screen for the H30 that you were using with the X1? How wide is the screen and how far away do you sit from it? What type of material is it?

Hey Rhino,

Welcome to the forum!
Sorry to hear you had to go through all those problems to watch movies :)
Its worth it in the end though.

Just a note, when you are waiting for that cooldown period you should actually wait 30min-hour for the bulb to cool. Just waiting for the fans to stop running isn't long enough according to what has been posted here in the past. You may already be doing that, but just wanted to make a note of that in case you are not, or others that read your post and don't know.

That is really what makes the green bar issue annoying. They are working on that however, and it should be fixed eventually.
Congratz on your purchase, I think you will be happy with it.

Quote : " That is odd for a digital. Just to rule out the source, does it appear on all signal sources? "

MikeSRC ,

--- my feelings exactly , just doesn't make much sense to me but it is there on all sources [ HTPC via RGB , Xbox & HD-cable via component ] .

--- It is very easy to see with a Grid pattern and not so easy to see during movie playback [ just watched Star Wars Episode II in HiDef last night and it still looks spectacular (even with the problem) ] .



----------- Jason

Are you using the exact same screen for the H30 that you were using with the X1? How wide is the screen and how far away do you sit from it? What type of material is it?Yes, the screen is the same. It's a Da-Lite Deluxe Model B - High Contrast Matte White. I really like the screen, btw! Much better than the posterboard I taped together the night we got our first X1. The screen was already on the way, but we couldn't wait that first night! [:)]

I think the reason for the more noticable screen door effect is because the black levels are so much richer than on the X1s. That darker black level causes the lines between the pixels to stand out more on lighter scenes, and high-contrast video content such as credits/subtitles. We were watching The Last Samauri last night and there are a lot of subtitles in that movie, with a relatively small font. We noticed the pixels quite a bit there.

It could also be that we aren't sitting far enough back. We're sitting about 12' from a 100" diagonal screen. I know that's technically too close, but we dig it. Sitting farther back definitely reduces the pixelation, but then again this is the same sitting distance as when we had the X1s. I took a close look at the lines between the pixels and I don't notice the "gray" color guitarman mentioned earlier in this post. Could it be that the gray lines which reduced the screen door effect was only a feature of the earlier firmware models?

Originally posted by Easy Rhino
I took a close look at the lines between the pixels and I don't notice the "gray" color guitarman mentioned earlier in this post. Could it be that the gray lines which reduced the screen door effect was only a feature of the earlier firmware models?

As you already mentioned, you probably just need to calibrate the H30 with AVIA or something. Tom has his fine tuned and that will probably help reduce the SDE.

Let us know if the SDE disappears after you calibrate it.

Originally posted by Easy Rhino
Could it be that the gray lines which reduced the screen door effect was only a feature of the earlier firmware models?

No, the ones I've checked out recently for customers look the same as my original H30 (which is also the latest firmware version). If you haven't calibrated with Avia or DVE, the black level may be causing dark greys to appear black.

What Mike said, the brightness isn't set right. If Avia doesn't fix it you might take a look in the service area and see if the DLP-brightness and DLP/contrast are set to RGB at 32.

My replacement unit looks every bit as good as the day one H30. SD's the same - has to be the best at smooth image for any SVGA projector. Colors and blacks still very dynamic. All this and I'm using a way to big screen, 120" diagonal.

My replacement unit looks every bit as good as the day one H30. SD's the same - has to be the best at smooth image for any SVGA projector. Colors and blacks still very dynamic. All this and I'm using a way to big screen, 120" diagonal



tom it is never to big :D ;)


it's like the old saying goes if you can go bigger than go bigger :p

Thanks to Optoma for the Firmware. Every morning I watch the news at full 800X600 120". Image looks smooth, scaler works well, digital cable looks smooth.

What Mike said, the brightness isn't set right. If Avia doesn't fix it you might take a look in the service area and see if the DLP-brightness and DLP/contrast are set to RGB at 32.

Good call. I hadn't considered that the Avia DVD might be able to help me calibrate the image so that the screen door is all but gone. I haven't checked out the service area yet. I'm still a little nervous about that one. I'm going to go back and read the posts in this thread carefully before messing with it to make sure I don't screw anything up.

I ordered the Avia disk this morning. I'll give it a try and let you know if the screen door was caused by improper calibration. Thanks for the advice.

The screen door effect I'm getting actually doesn't bother me much. More annoying is the signal loss/green bar problem. If there was anything that would turn me off of buying the H30, it would be that.

Oh, and I didn't mention it in my previous post, but my unit doesn't make a buzzing sound that many have mentioned. I've listened to the buzzing recordings others have posted and mine doesn't sound anything like that. It is very quiet, and MUCH quieter than the X1s I've tried. We'll see if it stays that way...

Just a note, when you are waiting for that cooldown period you should actually wait 30min-hour for the bulb to cool. Just waiting for the fans to stop running isn't long enough according to what has been posted here in the past.

Hmm...I haven't been waiting that long. Basically, here's what I do: If I know my DVD player is set in progressive mode and I want to watch some 4:3 content, I'll turn on the projector, wait for it to start searching for a signal, then turn on the DVD player. Then I go into the DVD menu and quickly change the signal to interlaced. Then I play my interlaced content without shutting anything down. After that, If I want to play a 16:9 DVD in progressive mode, I power down the projector with the remote and turn off the DVD player. I wait until the green light flashes and then turn the projector back on, wait for it to start searching, and then power on the DVD player. Annoying, but it works.

So, you're saying I should wait 30 minutes before turning it back on? Ouch. <Stimpy Voice>"What'll I do till then?!?!"</Stimpy Voice> I'm guessing if I don't wait 30 mins, I'll shorten the bulb life?

While we are waiting for word on the buzzing issues, what is the latest on the green bar lockup issue? I assume this is being looked into? Probably a firmware update to fix this I guess. Anyone have some info from Optoma on this?

I kind of figured Optoma would be all over these issues before the 4805 hit the streets. I think there's a lot of people following this thread who may end up with a 4805 depending on the reviews. Of course, the 4805 may end up with 10x more problems than the H30 too. Who knows.

Originally posted by Easy Rhino
So, you're saying I should wait 30 minutes before turning it back on? Ouch. <Stimpy Voice>"What'll I do till then?!?!"</Stimpy Voice> I'm guessing if I don't wait 30 mins, I'll shorten the bulb life?

Yes, most people say leave it off for 30 minutes at LEAST, some say an hour. Otherwise you are starting up a warm bulb and will definitely shorten it's life. The number of on/off's will also shorten it's life so you want to keep that to a minimum as well.

Originally posted by UnknownShadow
Yes, most people say leave it off for 30 minutes at LEAST, some say an hour. Otherwise you are starting up a warm bulb and will definitely shorten it's life. The number of on/off's will also shorten it's life so you want to keep that to a minimum as well.

And note that that is more of a general guideline for bulb life, that doesn't change depending on what PJ you choose. I have turned mine off and on in less time if I only had the bulb on for 30 seconds or so. I can't say that is a good thing, or it is safe, but I figured how hot could it get in 30 seconds. The answer I am sure is "pretty dang hot". Anyhow, best to play by the book as much as possible and be over cautious. Not going to hurt your PJ in anyway, just wear and tear on the bulb, but at bulb prices, thats pretty important too.

My H30 arrived at Optoma for service on Friday. What kind of turnaround time have people here seen when sending their units in? Do they ever update their RMA status database on the web site? When I look mine up, it shows absolutely no status -- just my name and address. The 'Received On' date isn't even filled in. It does throw an ugly ODBC error at the top of the page every time I access it though. :(

Anyone have any ideas on the lip-sync issues that Indie and I have experienced?
It's prob not related to the H30 but any tips or advice greatly appreciated.

Veggieguy -- when we sent in our first PJ because of the bulb issue, we kept looking at the website for the update on RMA status and it was never updated. Projector arrived at our door without any status change ever recorded. We received a new unit as a replacement, projector was shipped to them on March 4th, replacement was received March 11th.

simong, it's quite simple. the signal path that the video and audio are taking is different enough that you're noticing the difference between the two. you can try making the video cable shorter, the audio cable longer, or use your receiver to adjust the sound delay (if it's available). otherwise, there's not much else you can do. i don't think there's an external box that does a/v delay, but i could be mistaken.

I recently read an article about the audio/video synching issues with newer digital video equipment. This includes digital projectors as well as flat panel televisions, etc. It said that the lip synching issue is normally caused by the processing that is done to the video signal before it is displayed on the screen. This would include things such as scaling, deinterlacing, applying color filters, etc. All of this processing takes time and introduces a delay that your video signal encouters that your audio signal does not. If that video processing isn't performed quickly enough, that delay can become visible on screen when the audo and video aren't synchronized.

Just like computers, different projectors will perform these operations at different speeds. Those that aren't quite fast enough at it will exhibit audio synchronizing issues more frequently than others. I have not seen this problem on my H30, so I can't really say whether the H30 is slower than most or more likely to have lip synch issues.

It would be interesting to see if it happens less often with a progressive source, since that signal doesn't have to be deinterlaced and would presumably have a shorter processing time. Cable length may have some effect on it as well, although I'm using 36' component cables with no problems.

Now if I could just remember where I read that article...

No, that makes sense. I hadn't thought about the processing stage, but I'm certain that takes time. I have a receiver with audio delay capabilities, so it's made it nice to be able to adjust within the milisecond or so.

veggieguy, will you drop me an email? I just noticed you're in Seattle, and I'd love to check out your setup and hear a non-buzzing projector! :) valkyrie@rocketmail.com. Thanks!

I just noticed you're in Seattle, and I'd love to check out your setup and hear a non-buzzing projector!

Unfortunately, my non-buzzing projector is currently at Optoma being serviced for what appears to be early bulb failure. They received it last Friday, so I hope to get it back next week sometime. They'd better not send me a buzzer back in return for my quiet one. :)

I'll drop you an email when I have it re-installed here.

Sounds good, thanks!

I just thought I'd confirm the experiences on this thread. I bought an H30 a couple of weeks ago after reading this thread.

The first projector I got would not sync to any sources except VGA. After I turned on source lock (it's annoying you can't do this without a valid input), I was able to display a progressive image, but I got a green bar for an interlaced image.

Soon, the projector lamp failed (less than an hour of use).

I exchanged my projector, and the new one works much better. It'll switch between progressive and interlaced without problems (no green bar). However, it does have the intermittent buzz. The buzz comes and goes: sometimes it'll be there at the beginning, sometimes it'll show up after an hour or two of viewing.

Bottom line, I'm happy with the projector when it's not buzzing. So far the buzz has been intermittent enough that I'm not overly worried.

Both projectors are H30(A) versions.

addendum: my buzz is the same as valkyrie's

Hooked mine up tonight. All I can say is wow. If the InFocus 4805 is brighter than this, I would be amazed. The H30 looks much brighter than the X1 in presentation mode. Much.

I'm quite impressed. I still hope to compare it to the 4805, but Optoma has set the standard quite high.

Mine also came with the lens mask- it's an updated model :)

I got mine to buzz! It was, in a weird way, somewhat satisfying to finally figure out what you guys were all complaining about. Then I figured out that my garden flood light was responsible. The thing has this "accent lighting" feature that dims the light to just a glow when there's no motion detected. When I turned it off completely, the buzzing went away.

So the moral of the story is that these "dimmers" may be found in unexpected appliances.

Hi,

I finally got my lens mask for the H30 :-)
I did not try it yet, though, for some practical reasons I will not be able to ceiling mount my projector again until saturday :P

Anyway. I measured the hole in the lens mask and it is about 26x14 mm.
This means a length: width ratio of about 1,85. This is even wider dan 16:9 (which is 1,78). I was a bit surprised about this.

I am very curious now. Does the lens mask let the complete 4:3 get through it or not? This is important to know for me as I am planning to let my projector upgrade to the new firmware. Did I understand correctly that after the firmware upgrade the projected 16:9 (I do have a 1:9 screen) image will shift then from the bottom of the 4:3 chip to the center of it. Will this be a problem in combination with the lens mask?

Regards,

Ronald

Hey Ting,

Lens Mask works for full 4:3 or 16:9. Just fixes the light spill problem. The next firmware may allow you to choose the bottom or top of the chip, but right now it is thrown at the bottom. You can set it to 4:3 to throw it at the center right now, but you lose resolution doing this.
Bottom line is no firmware is going to make you lose the ability to throw the image how you want. They may add additional options, but they aren't going to change how it currently works.

Thanx a lot for explaining once more :-)

Regards,

Ronald

Hey Clam,

Glad yours doesn't buzz while the dimmers are off. If mine only buzzed when the dimmers were on I'd be a happy man :)

You and me both, hikarate... ;)

And me (no dimmers in my house)!

Fleaman

Originally posted by stretchsje
Hooked mine up tonight. All I can say is wow. If the InFocus 4805 is brighter than this, I would be amazed. The H30 looks much brighter than the X1 in presentation mode. Much.

I'm quite impressed. I still hope to compare it to the 4805, but Optoma has set the standard quite high.

Mine also came with the lens mask- it's an updated model :)

You're right the Optoma series overall is very bright but still has very good blacks, making for great contrast. Even in the Japanese shootout with the Z2 & Piano 3200 it showed to be much brighter. They called it TV like, meaning like the high contrast you get with a CRT tube type TV. Brightness and blacks are the least of the H30's troubles.

Greenbar lockup isn't widespread but I had one and it was seen by the Tech dept and sent to Taiwan for evaluation. The buzzing issue is also being researched. The Buzz sound that was just put on this thread sounds to me like the color wheel bearing. It could be the only fix is a new machine or colorwheel. You guys that want a resolution should keep up with the Tech area to see what the plan is.

Originally posted by guitarman
The Buzz sound that was just put on this thread sounds to me like the color wheel bearing. It could be the only fix is a new machine or colorwheel. You guys that want a resolution should keep up with the Tech area to see what the plan is.

Yes, definitely keep on top of it and let us know the outcome.

Poor slobs like me are still holding off on the H30 until this is sorted out and the 4805 now got pushed to end of June. So it could be 2 months before I finally decide if I buy a PJ or not. doh!

On the black levels - If I display a black image on my matt-white screen in total darkness I can clearly see light spill - even more obvious when staning in front of the PJ as it casts my shadow on the screen.

Is there a way of reducing this without reducing image brightness too much - or is this just a limitation of current DMD chip technology?
In short I guess Im asking if this is normal or not

Mine's not buzzing anymore. I turned it on yesterday and had it on for 3 hours and it didn't buzz. I guess my buzz comes and goes.

Just for the record.....I would still buy this projector even if I knew it was going to buzz. The buzz is not loud but the image is just unbelivable. I've got around 50 hours on the unit and I'm still amazed everytime I watch a movie. I can't even imagine picture to be any better then this.

So for those people that are holding off on a purchase....you're missing out big time :)

SB

Originally posted by simong
On the black levels - If I display a black image on my matt-white screen in total darkness I can clearly see light spill - even more obvious when staning in front of the PJ as it casts my shadow on the screen.

Is there a way of reducing this without reducing image brightness too much - or is this just a limitation of current DMD chip technology?
In short I guess Im asking if this is normal or not

A top feature of this projector is that the light spill is above the image only. 16.9 screen user can simply put a curtain above the screen to soak it up. A 4.3 screen user doesn't have to worry, the black bars on the screen look natural and there's no light to see falling off the screen border. I had a Seleco that had a huge border frame of light. You could see it on the walls at the sides of the screen. No border spill with the H30. The Lens mask helps things out a little also.

I would agree with Tom's assessment on that. The light spill for me is so negligible it's not even worth mentioning. I used 1.5" wide loop side of velcro to make my border around my 64" wide DIY 4:3 screen assuming I would cut different height panels of felt and stick them on above a 1.78 or 2.35 image to block the light spill and give the image a little more contrast. I have seen no need to go to the velcro store. :)

Cheers!

Hi Guys

I'm not worried about llight spill as I have a 16:9 pull down with borders on all sides and extra at the top.
My question is more related to the light coming from the DMD itself that means you can see the light on the screen in a dark room - Is this a black level prob that can be tweaked in the service menu?.
Don't get me wrong - it's not that bad at all it's just that I'm a perfectionist and small things drive me crazy :)

"I'm not worried about llight spill as I have a 16:9 pull down with borders on all sides and extra at the top."

Sounds like you're ok. We're mainly concerned about light spill on the surrounding wall. If you want to get into the masking thing to make blacker bars for 2.35 videos you could. but I always thought that was a pain and the blacks of the 2.35 bars as natural and acceptable.

Originally posted by sxxb
Mine's not buzzing anymore. I turned it on yesterday and had it on for 3 hours and it didn't buzz. I guess my buzz comes and goes.

Just for the record.....I would still buy this projector even if I knew it was going to buzz. The buzz is not loud but the image is just unbelivable. I've got around 50 hours on the unit and I'm still amazed everytime I watch a movie. I can't even imagine picture to be any better then this.

So for those people that are holding off on a purchase....you're missing out big time :)

SB

That's good luck. Same thing that happened with my H30. After a small amount of hours, I'm guessing 100, the sound went away "and NEVER came back!" (shades of gollum) see what these movies do to ya. :)

You could try a grey screen as opposed to a matte white screen if you're bothered by the light spill (which is negligible on the H30 in my opinion). The grey will kill this light and give you better blacks, but you will sacrifice overall brightness which i don't think matters too much because the H30 is so bright anyway.

G

Thx guys

Originally posted by simong
Anyone have any ideas on the lip-sync issues that Indie and I have experienced?
It's prob not related to the H30 but any tips or advice greatly appreciated.
Simon, Veggie and Valk-

I stumbled across this while reading reviews on the iScan products. Check out the "video delay and lip synch" chapter. They even give suggestions of delay timings (if your receiver supports that) based on what massaging of the signal is going on in your video path.

Cheers!

http://www.dvdfile.com/reviews/hardware/dvdo/iscan.html

I have my projector under my coffee table right now and basically I never hear the buzz so I've kinda given up on worrying about the buzz.. and the image is just great..

Due to the fact that I rent my places still and I move around a fair bit.. i don't think I'll ever have it ceiling mounted (new projector before I get a house haha) so I'm stickin with my H30..

Good luck to everyone else!
-rep

So, I was having one last comparison between my 2 buzzing H30's before I send one of them back. Essentially I was going to send back the one that buzzes more, which is the older one (the newer one currently stops buzzing after about 30 min to 1 1/2 hrs). Both are the newer firmware.

But, I thought my old H30 looked a little sharper so I kinda wanted to rule out any pic quality issues (like blacks dithering, etc.). Of course this is a little difficult to do as it takes a lot of time trying to calibrate both projectors to the best of their settings. Optoma's calibrations on both my H30's were way out of whack...both had a big red push, but both still needed different settings to look similar.

So, while checking out some of the opening scenes in Gattaca, it seemed that my older H30 was a little sharper. Due to my set up, it's a little difficult to do comparisons in real time. I have my H30 ceiling mounted and the other one (that I was going to send back) I had put on my couch in a tabletop setting. I had to un-hook the component cables to switch between units. I calibrated both to be as similar as my TV below the screen as I could and both had the same size picture.

So, while paused on Uma Thurman's divine face, I took a close up view (walked up to the screen) and noticed that on my older H30 (the one that looks sharper), the pixel structure was very well defined, they had very square and sharp black lines (squares/screendoor). But on the newer H30, still paused on the same frame, the pixels on Uma's face were blurred, not defined at all, I could not make out the square lines as it almost looked like there were no pixels! Playing with the focus on both units I could not duplicate this effect between them. Meaning I could de-focus the sharper H30 to lessen the screen door effect, but not nearly to the point of the other H30, plus the picture was way out of focus then. And no amount of perfect focus could get the blurrier H30's pixels to stand out on Uma's face.

Now, here's the kicker: On the less-sharp H30 I could see that on other parts of the screen the pixels were well defined. So, I put up the H30's blank blue screen and proceeded to examine the pixel structure across the screen (fun:rolleyes: ). To my surprise I found that there were areas of the screen that had very well defined pixels (black bordered squares) and other parts of the screen that had very un-defined pixels (hard to make out the screen door). This does not seem to be a focus uniformity issue (keystone, etc.) as I had moved the screen in and out while observing the blurry pixels and still could not get them well defined.
What I did notice is that knowing the H30 is not very uniform on the brightness across the screen, I went back at my seating position and stared at the blank blue screen for a few minutes (does that make me crazy?) and I seemed to notice the areas that pixels were blurry were brighter than the areas that had strong pixel structure.

So, my question of the day: Is the H30's brightness un-uniformity causing some parts of the picture to blow out....or in my case, make the pixels not uniform throughout the screen (up close) and from far away, make some parts of the picture a little less sharp?
Or is there an optical factory defect in this H30 unit? Sorry, but with Optoma’s QC
issues these days, I’m looking at worst-case scenarios.

Funny thing is, when looking up close, it would seem to be better to have less pixel structure...was much less noticeable. But from normal viewing distances, it seemed to make the picture a little less sharp. Also, it wasn't uniform across the screen anyway.

Now I don't know which H30 to send back, the less sharp/less buzzing one or the sharper/more buzzing one! Looks like I will have to do a more scientific test now. Will have to buy some Y-adapters and take my H30 down and compare both, side by side in real time on the same screen (blocking out the lens of either with a piece of cardboard or something), with the blue screen and DVD’s.

Man, I don’t have time for this!! I love the general pic quality of the H30 (in general),
but I certainly did not plan to be a unwilling Beta tester for these units.

If anyone has any additional advise or suggestions or Help?!?!

Fleaman

Thanks gottahavapj

I put in my Gladiator DVD last night and there were no lip-sync isues at all on the H30.
This is a little weird as I cant believe that if it's an issue with the h30 that it would be dependant on the film (All PAL) so I suspect my problem isn't related to the H30 after all but more likely something to do with the way I have all my kit connected (The DVD's with the issues havn't had lip-sync issues before).
Thanks for the help anyway guys - Looks like I need to disconnect everything and go back to basics to find where the prob lies.

Oh, and just in case anyone was going to ask:

--Both H30's lenses are clean (on the out side)
--The un-uniform blurry pixel H30 only has about 10 hrs on the lamp. The apparent sharper H30 has about 60 hrs on the lamp.
--I didn't get a chance to check out the sharper H30's pixels on the blank blue screen yet (it was about 2 am in the morning...), but it's the 1st test once I get the chance again.

So, if any of you with H30's dig watching a blue screen, throw it up and check out the uniformity of your pixel structure across the screen!

Fleaman

fleaman

The difference in image clarity could be due to one being table mounted and the other being ceiling mounted.

Optoma use the lower part of the lens when table mounted as apparantly this is the "sweet spot" and provides better clarity. The problem is that when you ceiling mount the H30 then uses the top of the lens and depending on your screen height you may also introduce keystoning and therefore lose some of the clarity.

I noticed that my H30 was much sharper when table mounted than when ceiling mounted so you may be seeing the same thing.

Originally posted by simong
fleaman

The difference in image clarity could be due to one being table mounted and the other being ceiling mounted.

Optoma use the lower part of the lens when table mounted as apparently this is the "sweet spot" and provides better clarity. The problem is that when you ceiling mount the H30 then uses the top of the lens and depending on your screen height you may also introduce keystoning and therefore lose some of the clarity.

I noticed that my H30 was much sharper when table mounted than when ceiling mounted so you may be seeing the same thing.

There was no keystoning on either unit...I made sure to rule that out.

I don't understand why it would be sharper when table mounted as opposed to ceiling...if all things are equal (no keystone, same distance, same angle, etc.). It's possible that there might be some brightness differences depending on the reflective angle of the projection beam. But this still would not explain why the pixels viewed up close would be that different, and why it was not uniform. Meaning, the blurry pixels were in blotches...some in the lower left of the screen, some in the middle some in the top right....all mixed in with sharp pixels. I would have to guess that maybe overall about 30-40% of the screen area had blurry pixels and the remaining were sharper.

If all the sharp pixels were at the top 1/2 of the screen and the blurry ones at the bottom, then yeah, that would be a keystone thing I would think (or all on the right side, etc.) But it is not uniform on my screen...I wish it was, it would be easier to figure out.

Fleaman

It's worth comparing both H30's table mounted so that yiou are comparing like for like. Although you dont have any keystoning the PJ's will still be using completely different parts of the lens - The desk mounted image is projecting at a much lower angle through the lens (Think almost straight) whereas when ceiling mounted it uses the very top of the lens so the light is passing through at a much bigger angle.

This may not be your prob at all but I definately noticed a difference in clarity when I ceiling mounted my H30 - but that may just be a quirk with my unit as others haven't really reported any issues with clarity.

fleaman

what is the lens make, does any one know. is it plastic or glass. remember the quality of projected image will only be as good as the lens it passes through. also read a review today on the h30. review claimed 40% light fall of from centre to edge [white screen] noticible by naked eye. I still hope to be getting a H30 on sunday as an entry level machine. and due to the posts I've read here.
A plastic lens might put me off!

all the best

I dont notice ANY difference in light from the centre to the edge.

40% would be very noticable so not sure how they came up with that figure!?

Fleaman, I'd feel much safer buying an Optoma product if YOU were doing QA for them! ;-)

Thanks for all the info, I know it's a pain and I hope you get it sorted out soon. But I have to say if I were in your position I would have dumped Optoma ages ago. That H30 must certainly throw an awesome image for you to be still messing with it.

simong mentioned putting them both in the tabletop position. That might be a little difficult to do so how about just swapping the ceiling unit with the table unit and see if the problem follows the PJ or if it is indeed a ceiling mount issue. That would be an easier test I would think.

As always, keep us updated. Good luck!

Hi UnknownShadow

The H30 does indeed throw an awesome picture. I watched Gladiator again last night and it looked amazing - Definately a good film to use when showing of a PJ.

There have been some issues with the H30 as discussed in this forum, but don't forget that only a few people have actually had probs and the vast majority haven't - the probs just get discussed a lot so you'd be mistaken that there are more probs than there actually are.
The size of this thread is testament to the popularity of this bit of kit.

Touch wood (lots) I've not had any probs with my H30 so far - other than the slight loss of clarity when ceiling mounted.
The image is amazing out of the box and no doubt will be improved further when I get hold of a calibration tool such as Avia etc.

Originally posted by simong
There have been some issues with the H30 as discussed in this forum, but don't forget that only a few people have actually had probs and the vast majority haven't - the probs just get discussed a lot so you'd be mistaken that there are more probs than there actually are.


Well I've been following this thread for quite some time now and there are now at least 15 to 20 different reports of the buzzing issue. This is the one that concerns me the most. I know this thread is pretty big but how many people here actually own an H30? Probably not that many.

Poor Flea even bought THREE different units from different places and ALL of them had the buzzing problem! That makes me wonder if it isn't more wide spread that some people think.

I simply cannot buy an H30 until this issue is sorted out. My PJ will be directly above my head and only about 4 feet at that. So any buzzing at all will drive me insane. Fan noise I can deal with.

So right now I am waiting for this H30 issue to be fixed or the 4805 to get released. Doesn't look like either will happen anytime soon. I may break down and end up looking at the BenQ6200 or even the older X1 or maybe a Epson, Hitachi or Toshiba that I have seen locally. I might even buy another 32" tv and wait for PJ technology to mature a bit more.

My buzz came back last night. :( It was quiet enough that I didn't realise it was THE buzz,so I didn't work very hard to get rid of it. It's the very same buzz as in the posted sound clip, just quieter. But tonight there was no buzz, just the almost inaudible whirr of the colorwheel.

I've only heard it twice, both times in the middle of the night at my friend Lisa's house in the woods of NH. I haven't looked for any common factor like a dimmer or motor, though in both cases I was using the VGA input. How the heck can I get the cover off while the projector is running on a table?!? I *could* get my multitester's temperature probe in there, but I'd be afraid of bumping something and shorting it out.

Unless my ear was within a foot or so, I couldn't hear the buzz from most positions, but from directly behind the unit I could hear it at least 3 feet away. So, I guess mine might have to go back when they figure out what's causing this problem (and the green bar problem of course, which I encountered without ever *switching* inputs.)

Should I call Optoma and bug them about this, or are they already concerned enough to be working on the problem?

Sigh. The damn thing puts out a mindbogglingly good picture, even projecting on blackout cloth or a light-colored wall. But the buzz was noticeable; it certainly would annoy people who are more sensitive than I, and would annoy even me if it ever got louder.

~ Kiran <entropy@io.com>

Thanks guys for reply's
my Yamaha A1 has time delay but I have noticed it only happens on certain films maybe it is a NTSC & PAL thing.

indie

Originally posted by indiejones
Thanks guys for reply's
my Yamaha A1 has time delay but I have noticed it only happens on certain films maybe it is a NTSC & PAL thing.

indie

Hi Indie

Thats interesting - I had the same issue but when I watched Gladiator last night there was no lip-sync prob at all so I suspected it wasn't related to the H30, however, if you get the same thing (i.e some films ok/some not) then maybe there is something odd going on.
Do you get the prob on LoTR:RoTK?
My films are all PAL DVD by the way and I'm connecting using the VGA in rather than composite.

Guys

What sort of benefit would I get from using a "cheap" progressive scan DVD player for UK PAL DVD's over my current "really cheap" Cyberhome player with the H30?
Also, I've seen some DVD players that have VGA out - would this be a good combination with the H30?

Originally posted by entropy
Should I call Optoma and bug them about this, or are they already concerned enough to be working on the problem?


Kiran, YES YES YES! Please call Optoma and bug them about this problem. Even mention this huge thread and make sure they know many people are hesitant to buy the H30 until this is fixed.

I have had several people mention to me they are taking my approach... waiting for this buzz to get resolved or jump to the 4805 and hope it is of better quality. So Optoma is *DEFINITELY* loosing customers over this.

In fact, I can't believe it's taken them this long to figure it out. If I had a buzzing unit I would be calling them at least once per day to check up on the issue. You put down your hard earned cash on this unit and you deserve to enjoy movies, not listen to a distracting buzz in your ear.

At first I was put off by the seemingly loud 37/39db rating of the 4805 but if that is just fan noise then I'll take that anyday over a 30db buzz from an H30.

As usual, time will tell.

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Simon, Veggie and Valk-

I stumbled across this while reading reviews on the iScan products. Check out the "video delay and lip synch" chapter. They even give suggestions of delay timings (if your receiver supports that) based on what massaging of the signal is going on in your video path.

Cheers!

http://www.dvdfile.com/reviews/hardware/dvdo/iscan.html

simong
I checked the link above and regarding lip sync and there is a different time delay for NTSC & PAL films maybe this is the reason for me but as for you who only has R2 films its confusing, I am going to note the films it does it with and then see if it repeats itself, also simong what ceiling mount are you using I am trying to get a Panavise 826 mount from US but finding it difficult to get it shipped cheaply.

indie

At first I was put off by the seemingly loud 37/39db rating of the 4805 but if that is just fan noise then I'll take that anyday over a 30db buzz from an H30.



really ,i would not want either :)


as for this buzz issue i have calibrated 6 h30's down here in the Toronto area and i can tell you i have never heard this buzz issue :confused: ,and i am sure that there will be a fix for it but the ? is when , but like i said never heard one down here with the units i worked on :)

Originally posted by indiejones
simong
I.....also simong what ceiling mount are you using I am trying to get a Panavise 826 mount from US but finding it difficult to get it shipped cheaply.

indie

I'm actually using a ball-jointed speaker mount that I picked up from Argos for £7.00 (for a pair). all I did was drill one hole through it.
Stock number and a few pics can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387668&highlight=argos

Has a couple of limitations but allows the PJ to be detatached in seconds.
I'll take some new pics with the PJ mounted tonight.
Not as solid as a Panavise but to be honest it does the job for me and actually looks very neat.

Originally posted by simong
Guys

What sort of benefit would I get from using a "cheap" progressive scan DVD player for UK PAL DVD's over my current "really cheap" Cyberhome player with the H30?
Also, I've seen some DVD players that have VGA out - would this be a good combination with the H30?

simong
I bought a Philips DVDQ50AT DVD Player with Faroudja FLI2200 (now multiregion using all4one remote hack)on ebay it cost me £80 inc shipping from US and the picture is awsome and that is using s-video,
I am waiting for my component cables from bluejeanscable.com which will improve it dramatically cant wait!

indie

Originally posted by simong
I'm actually using a ball-jointed speaker mount that I picked up from Argos for £7.00 (for a pair). all I did was drill one hole through it.
Stock number and a few pics can be found here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=387668&highlight=argos

Has a couple of limitations but allows the PJ to be detatached in seconds.
I'll take some new pics with the PJ mounted tonight.
Not as solid as a Panavise but to be honest it does the job for me and actually looks very neat.

Nice one simong
I will see if I can use it I need a 9" drop so will have to make some kind of extension but still there is always 14 day return with Argos if no good for me.

indie

I have noticed that "16x9" and "16x9 native" modes look identical when connected to my HTPC, but the "16x9 native" is taller (as it should be) when connected to a DVD player in S-Video or component. Is this normal? Is anyone other than Jason using an HTPC with H30?

Also, I can't achieve consisten focus across the screen. When the top is focused, the bottom side is not. Is there a fix to this?

Thank you.

Originally posted by simong
Optoma use the lower part of the lens when table mounted as apparantly this is the "sweet spot" and provides better clarity. The problem is that when you ceiling mount the H30 then uses the top of the lens and depending on your screen height you may also introduce keystoning and therefore lose some of the clarity.

I noticed that my H30 was much sharper when table mounted than when ceiling mounted so you may be seeing the same thing.

Simong, the H30 uses the same part of the lens (the top) whether it's table mounted or ceiling mounted. In either case, if you're using the lens mask, the opening of the mask is closer to the top side of the projector (same position with either mount). I can't say I've noticed any difference in clarity with mine since I ceiling mounted it. Are you using the same cables as when it was table mounted?

Originally posted by entropy
How the heck can I get the cover off while the projector is running on a table?

Actually, it's easiest to remove it when it's on a table, as the top pulls off once you remove the side screws (it's still connected by a 6" ribbon cable).

It should be identical. Your HTPC outputs the native res of the projector so no scaling is required. Your HTPC scales your image to fit the 800x600 or 800x450 to fit your desktop properly...hence my thinking that when running HTPC you would not lose any part of the picture because the software DVd player rescales to fit the desktop. With S-video or component the built in scaler compensates and resolves the picture to fit its 800x600-> 4:3 image or 800x450->16:9 image

Correct me if I am wrong guys. But this is my assumption.



Originally posted by clamrade
I have noticed that "16x9" and "16x9 native" modes look identical when connected to my HTPC, but the "16x9 native" is taller (as it should be) when connected to a DVD player in S-Video or component. Is this normal? Is anyone other than Jason using an HTPC with H30?

Thank you.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
Simong, the H30 uses the same part of the lens (the top) whether it's table mounted or ceiling mounted.

Hi Mike...now I'm confused (Easily done :) )

When table mounted the 16:9 image is at the bottom of the screen and is using the bottom of the DMD chip and lens - I believe the idea behind using the bottom of the DMD was to provide a straighter path through the lens and give better quality - if this is correct then using the top of the chip and lens would have a slightly detrimental effect - correct?

If you invert the H30 it still keeps the image low on the screen and is now effectively now using the top of the DMD and projecting the image higher in the lens, i.e not through the "sweet spot"

Apologies if my understanding of this is incorrect - Still trying to get my head around all this stuff
:)

The H30 projects through the top of the lens in either case, but it does use the bottom of the DMD when table mounted (light spill above the image). When it's ceiling mounted, it still uses the top of the lens, but switches to the top of the DMD to keep the light spill above the image. You can see this by using the lens mask, which has an offset cutout whose position doesn't need to be changed when going from table to ceiling.

Thanks, Saturn. But I thought I read earlier that H30 will vertically compress differently even when using RGB connection.

Oh, where's Jason? It's been a whole hour since I posted my question. :D

Thanks for the clarification Mike

Unfortunately I'm in the UK and haven't been able to get a lens mask yet :/

My understanding of that whole vertical positioning saga jives with Mike's explanation (not that he needs my help). My takeaway on it was that it was a consistent part of the lens they were gunning for which caused the top of the chip to be utilized in one mounting configuration and the bottom in the other.

Cheers!

Originally posted by UnknownShadow
Poor Flea even bought THREE different units from different places and ALL of them had the buzzing problem! That makes me wonder if it isn't more wide spread that some people think.


That wasn't me, that was valkyrie. I have 2 H30's that buzz (one is a hot swap/cross shipping unit that I haven't sent back yet). My boss has an older H30 (old firmware) that does not buzz at all.

Fleaman

Originally posted by clamrade
Also, I can't achieve consisten focus across the screen. When the top is focused, the bottom side is not. Is there a fix to this?

Thank you.

Your screen is not square to your projector. Move/angle the top or bottom closer or further from the projector. Measure all 4 sides of your image, they should be equal (top/bottom and LH/RH sides).

Fleaman

Originally posted by fleaman
That wasn't me, that was valkyrie. I have 2 H30's that buzz (one is a hot swap/cross shipping unit that I haven't sent back yet). My boss has an older H30 (old firmware) that does not buzz at all.

Fleaman

Oops, yes sorry about that. In any case, that's 5 buzzers between you 2 guys alone.

Speaking of Valk, wasn't he going to contact Optoma again today for an update on this issue? Or was that you fleaman? I've got everyone mixed up now because everyone seems to have a buzzing unit!

Now someone started a H30 buzzing poll thread on the main forum :rolleyes:. I'm really sorry for you guys that are fighting this issue but I keep going back to the thought that Joe is 0-6 on buzzers and Mike has only seen one out of I don't know how many. I don't think it's every other unit rolling out of their doors that is defective. Although Valk and Flea's experiences are a bit strange. :) I'm confident Optoma will find an amicable solution.

Cheers!

UnknownShadow
and to be honest just watch when 4805 comes out and something is wrong ,people are going to be up in arms that the pj is no good or defective and so on .......


that is just the nature of the beast with technologies ,can not win ;)



but like i said i am sure there will be a solution for some of you that have the problem units ,;)

Pixel grid on my PJ still looks light and thin. The amazing invisible screen door, lol and the main reason the first bought the H30. That area around each pixel is pretty cool and not all PJ's are like this, the look is faint and very thin.

There's only two HT SVGA models, the H30 and The Sharp DT200. Pixel grids are not alike so be happy with the H30. Even on the HT1000 which is an XGA HT-model the lines surrounding the pixel are thick and dark. One more SVGA HT model coming down the pike (4805) lets see how it handles the screen door.

I got 160hrs now and did reset the contrast and put the white peaking at 6. This to give the image a more TV like look.

All the screenshots on my first H30 had a factory setup with the White Peaking at 6 and the Sharpness at 28. Sharpness has never been a problem on both of the projectors. Wing and PC I think do recommend having white peak a zero, but it seems someone in Taiwan that calibrated my first PJ liked setting white peak to 6. Try it and see what it does. If you slide the white peak you'll see the color white get very white and 6 is a compromise. Try it you may like it or you may not.

I sill use a small pair of binoculars to dial in a super sharp focus. I'll bring up the menu grid and highlight the lower right Icon. This one has white fields with two rows of white lines being used so you can focus on the pixel boxes pretty clearly.

Originally posted by new teq joe
UnknownShadow
and to be honest just watch when 4805 comes out and something is wrong ,people are going to be up in arms that the pj is no good or defective and so on .......


that is just the nature of the beast with technologies ,can not win ;)



but like i said i am sure there will be a solution for some of you that have the problem units ,;)

It's not a question of technology with my H30's, it's a question of Quality Control. Trust me, if you heard the difference between a buzzer and a non-buzzer in person (like I have), there would be no way you would be satisfied with a buzzing unit.

Now with my pixel structure un-uniformity, I'm starting to question the optics of my unit. But to be fair, I have some more comparison testing planned, I just didn't think I would be spending this much time dealing with problems instead of enjoying movies.

Fleaman

I have had my H30 for about three weeks and I have only had opportunity to use it on weekends/table mount. I have yet to hear a buzz. Just fan noise that seems normal but not objectionable and unnoticed during normal DVD audio levels. I am sitting only a mere three feet from the small table. I have so far been blown away by the quality of DVD images. I am using a Draper traveller portable matte white screen at 92 inches HD format. I have yet to use AVIA to perform any tweaking. In all honesty to my eyes the image seems damn close to perfection with the eye only. Bright vibrant colors, blacks seem to be black .....a true cinema experience. Do I really need to wait about a hundred hours? I am using the default settings out of the box. I did get the lens mask so I presume the firmware must be to the latest. The unit sure does get hot. I wonder how these things will hold up over the course of a year with heavy usage?
I can see from the volume of posts that some of you are literally performing life test/endurance qual testing on your H30. Who amongst you has the most hours on a single H30 to date?

Originally posted by new teq joe
UnknownShadow
and to be honest just watch when 4805 comes out and something is wrong ,people are going to be up in arms that the pj is no good or defective and so on .......


That is quite possible. Being new to this forum and PJ's in general I'm not sure if all PJ's have teething problems like this or not.

How did the X1 do when it was released? Seems to be a very popular PJ. Did it have any issues like this?

I could put up with certain usage issues like the green bar lockup but buzzing/noise issues I cannot put up with. Would not only drive me insane but would also bug my wife, who in turn would bug me and make me regret ever buying the PJ etc etc...

Originally posted by guitarman
Pixel grid on my PJ still looks light and thin. The amazing invisible screen door, lol and the main reason the first bought the H30. That area around each pixel is pretty cool and not all PJ's are like this, the look is faint and very thin.

There's only two HT SVGA models, the H30 and The Sharp DT200. Pixel grids are not alike so be happy with the H30...

I would be happy if my pixel grid was uniform throughout the whole screen. As it is now, it is far from that and I believe it is affecting the sharpness of my image.

Tom, with a blue screen on, all your pixel borders are the same and uniform throughout the whole screen? If so, then I definitely have a problem with at least 1 of my H30's.

Fleaman

It's not a question of technology with my H30's, it's a question of Quality Control. Trust me, if you heard the difference between a buzzer and a non-buzzer in person (like I have), there would be no way you would be satisfied with a buzzing unit.



fleaman listen i have seen and heard all kinds of things and to be honest some were the units and others were the set up itself :)



so if it is a question of quality control "ok" ,why would they ship the units that have problems and loose money ?


but remember there are different parts in the pj that belong to different company's to make a finished unit ;) , so that means that they are putting there trust in that company to produce because the bottom line is that optoma is going to take the brunt of the crap . "bottom line "

I used the white field today and did look across the entire screen at inches away. Everything looked good.

Originally posted by UnknownShadow
That is quite possible. Being new to this forum and PJ's in general I'm not sure if all PJ's have teething problems like this or not.

How did the X1 do when it was released? Seems to be a very popular PJ. Did it have any issues like this?

I could put up with certain usage issues like the green bar lockup but buzzing/noise issues I cannot put up with. Would not only drive me insane but would also bug my wife, who in turn would bug me and make me regret ever buying the PJ etc etc...

I followed the X1 craze on this forum when it came out and while it was a while ago, the complaints that were the most controversial were the Rainbow problems. There were many early X1 proponents that were defending the X1 and almost accusing the rainbow complainers that they might be crazy.

Well, as time passed it seemed to be accepted that the X1 may not be such a great machine for many due to the RBE. Even the early defenders of the X1 gave in and admitted the X1 can cause RBE for many. I don't remember reading anything about Q.C. issues with the X1, it seemed to be a well built machine from what I remember being written about it. The main problem was the 2x color wheel....but that was a technology issue, not a Quality Control issue.

Fleaman

I could put up with certain usage issues like the green bar lockup but buzzing/noise issues I cannot put up with. Would not only drive me insane but would also bug my wife, who in turn would bug me and make me regret ever buying the PJ etc etc...


LOL that would not be good " making the wife pissed " ,no healthy :D ;)

I've sent my weekly "buzzing" issue email to Optoma and told them about my recording and the third buzzer I got, so I'll let you all know when I hear back.

Hey guy's I post a poll to see what is the ratio of people who has a buzzer.

Please participate if you have a H30

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=408795

Thanks

Fred

not a Quality Control issue


fleaman i honestly feel for you but you should not say it is a quality issue because if it was a quality issue every body would have it , so it just might be bad luck or what ever .


and i have no affiliation to no company so like many people here i call it like i see it , that is it


and to prove a point if you want to know about quality issues lets see what i have seen


toshibas rptv's bad crt's , poping , white line problem ...,,so on and so on

sony rptvs' the 500 models and others flicker problem ......


i mean a lot of sets had quality issues

:)