Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, Tom. I didn't understand it, either.

just an update

on page 335 i posted a pic about a problem i was getting with vertical lines appearing in some scenes (due to interference i guess).

many suggestions were made, I tried different cables composite and s-video and i didn't see the problem anymore, but the picture quality wasn't as good.
it only seemed to be happeining with the component cables, i even tried a different set of those...

in the end i switched the output from 480i to 480p and the interference issue seems to have gone for the most part, i thinks it's still faintly there but for the most part it's barely noticable.

thanks alot for everyones suggestions

What DVD player are you using?

ummm... i don't know if that question was to me or not, but i'm using my xbox as my dvd player, saving up for a better one in the future, maybe one that can do upconverting?! what's a good one for that?

Try the Zenith 318, everybody seems to like it. I hear the Xbox is awful to use as a dedicated progressive player. Probably this is the problem.

thanks guitarman, I'm gonna check out either the zenith or the LG one, jason pointed out that the xbox is a horrible dvd player too.

Where's that mjolson guy and hows he doing on the Smart III calibration stuff? I'm wildly curious. :)

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Where's that mjolson guy and hows he doing on the Smart III calibration stuff? I'm wildly curious. :)

Funny you should ask - it just arrived today (backorder on light meters apparently). Haven't had a chance to play around with it yet. I really don't want to remove the H30 from the ceiling and run another VGA cable so I've got to figure out a way to to mount the light meter in front of the lens. Hopefully I'll have a chance to work on it by next weekend.

mjolson ,

--- I am considering buying the Smart III myself so please do let us know your impressions ;) .

--- How heavy is the light sensor ?

----- Thanks ,
------ Jason

Many users of Smart III say it's excellent and they also have color facts. Word is it's great for checking CR also.

Hey Mike,
What projectors did Optoma show at Cedia? anything about a 480p model?

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
mjolson ,
--- How heavy is the light sensor ?

----- Thanks ,
------ Jason

I have the Extech 403125 - 7.76oz. for the whole meter with batteries. (The sensor itself is very small and of negligible weight, with a 5' extension cord).

Originally posted by guitarman
Hey Mike,
What projectors did Optoma show at Cedia? anything about a 480p model?

Just the H30, H57 and H77. I was hoping for a 480p model, but nothing was mentioned.

The H30 was on a small screen, but interestingly table mounted with an offset lens tacked on the front so that the bottom of the image was at the lens level.

Ovation was sharing the space with them and I got a great rundown on the Optic One package from it's creator.

mjolson - keep us posted on the Smart III.

Originally posted by mjolson
I have the Extech 403125 - 7.76oz. for the whole meter with batteries. (The sensor itself is very small and of negligible weight, with a 5' extension cord).


--- Thanks :) ,

----- Jason

Mike sounds like they had allot of light in the room? One member said the H77 was blaring bright with crushed whites. Wasn't Wing there to fix things up?

When I saw it the room was dark. To be honest, with all the new stuff there was to see, I didn't spend much time with the H77 since I was pretty familiar with it already. I have to admit it did not look it's best, but I didn't see it again after Friday. Wing was there, so it may have looked better on Saturday or Sunday. I've yet to see a projector look as good at a show as it has in my own controlled environment. The 3-chip DLP display at the TI booth was outstanding though. :D

About getting the firmare changed to C07. Is it user upgradeable? If not how much does Optoma charge to do it?

Bob

Originally posted by BobL
About getting the firmare changed to C07. Is it user upgradeable? If not how much does Optoma charge to do it?

Bob
It is not user upgradeable Bob. I'm not sure how much they would charge if it is at the request of the customer and not related to a problem unit. Perhaps someone else who has sent one in could shed some light.

Cheers!

You send it to Milpitas, no charge ever for a firmware but you do have to pay the one way shipping.

Mike, it's nice to look at the 3-chip machines and the Qualia but 30k for the Sony and 3k for a new bulb, you hv to have money to burn. Like some of the cigar customers I hv. 7figure wrist watches etc :) (no joke)
Back to reality with the H30. ;)

Hey guys, I haven't posted in a while. I now have 678 hours on the replacement unit I received in early May. The only problem I've had is an intermittant color wheel bearing noise upon startup. It goes away after a few minutes. I sure had fun watching my first NFL games on it in full 4:3 format!!

Don

Don, you are correct sir, The H30 does a hell of a job on 4.3 the way it's supposed to be. Great for the Sunday Ticket. But there's allot of HDTV football also. You got a STB?

H30 HDclip
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30cf6.jpg

I need to get away from the forum for a while :) I am beyond peeved that the backwater TV stations around here won't be showing anything like OTA HD sports until well into next year if even then. I cannot image how much fun it would have been to watch my Vikes torch the Cowboys in HD. :D

I have Directv w/ tivo and drive the H30 via Svideo. Sony DVD via component. I will get a Directv HD tivo when the price comes down. I can hook up an additional HD only STB I guess. The H30 really does a good job at 4:3 driven by SD STB. I sit 2.5x screen width 110" away.

Tom, wow... great HD football clip....Humm, maybe I can pick up a used Directv HD STB in the interm.

Don

I see Sony HD100's going off at $150 allot on fleebay. There must be some new low priced boxes now that drove the price down. I think if you twist Direct TV's arm they'll upgrade for a low price. You may say the cable people will give you a box for free.

First, a little background. After enjoying the wealth of information in this thread, I bought an H30 back in April. This was to be used in our basement when it was finished off as a simple theater room.

I initially played with it in my living room under poor light, screen, and throw conditions just to get a feel for it. Two-thirds of the time, when powering on, it wouldn't strike and the power indicator turned amber. It was necessary to reset the power cord to make another attempt.

Well, now the room is finally done and last night I mounted it on my ceiling and was playing with it. Preliminary results look good on a white primed wall. (DIY screen is planned soon.)

I went down there tonight to actually watch something, and it pulled the won't strike trick. Grr. So, I reset the power and turned in back on and it seemed like it was going to run this time. I turned my back on it to fiddle with the DVD player and suddenly there was a loud CRACK noise, and an amber power light. I assume I've now blown my bulb!

So, I've got about 20 hours on the whole unit, and I have watched just one whole movie (and parts of several others) since getting it. I finally mount it where it belongs and it's dead!? I know I'm technically out of warranty, but 20 hours of use?

I called Optoma and the woman said it would require a manager to discuss whether I'd get my bulb replaced. I guess it's at least an opportunity to see about the startup issue. She's to fax me some RMA form thing, and I've since found it on the web site as an Excel spreadsheet.

I'm so frustrated! I'm still catching up here in this thread, but I needed to rant. Can someone offer me encouragement that this will be resolved properly or have I set off down a nightmarish road of hassles?

Thanks,

Todd

Seems I am in the same boat as you are Todd. Although I have used it more than you have, I still don't even have 300 hours on the unit and mine wont strike. I hope that they back up their product and replace our bulbs for free.

For those of you that have sent in your projectors, how long would it take them to update the information on the RMA site? They recieved my projector last tuesday (9/07/04) and they haven't updated my info yet.

Hang in there guys , I am sure that Optoma will take good care of you :) [ they have top notch customer service IMO ] .


ToddR ,
--- Damn that really stinks , but don't let it get you down :D . Based upon my experience with Optoma they are very eager to take care of the consumer and the sense of urgency was evident over the phone . I think they know there are some build issues with the H30 but when they stand behind it so well it becomes a bit easier to deal with [ if you owned a Sony right now you would be S.O.L. ;) ] .

________________________________

jigrillo ,
--- Sometimes they do not update the online RMA info right away , some people actually had units come back to them before the online RMA info was changed at all [ so have no fear ;) ] .
_____________________________________


--- Best of Luck to both of you :D !!!


---------- Jason

I'm hopng my unit holds up but with all this talk it's not hard to not be tempted to return this unit to Dell as quickly as possible and not take the chance. I should be getting mine mounted with screen in the next week and a half or so. We were measuring for the screen last night and I notice mine did buzz when my lights are on in the back room that are on a slider. Turn off the lights viola no buzz.

I have about 10 hours on the bulb and would be miffed if this thing goes out with anything less than a 1000 hours. If they rate it for 2000 I expect to get atleast 50% out of it.

April is a early model. We hv read there were early bulb problems and color wheel bearings. Pretty sure they've been QC'ed by now.

Hey Guys,
I'm at work, don't have admin menu in front of me. The page with Advanced color options and White Peaking has a setting that allows you to choose Graphic, Video, Film, or PC I believe.
When selecting these what does that change? Are they different presets of something? They don't change my Advanced Color Settings, those seem to stay the same, but the picture does change when I switch between these. Anyone know what these presets change?
Thanks.

Hi there Mr. karate :)

Here is the quote directly out of the Optoma "how to" guide:

"Image mode is another way to make gamma adjustments on Optoma projectors. [(link to Gamma correction] The image mode gamma correction settings are factory preset to deliver the best results for each type of input signal. Be sure to check this mode to insure that the mode setting corresponds with how you are using the projector. There are settings for Film, Video, Graphics, and PC, as shown in Figure 27. Film mode reproduces film-like characteristics. Video mode emphasizes the top and bottom end of the image (whites and blacks). The higher contrast settings are more suitable for watching TV and video. Graphics mode gives even more emphasis to graphical displays, while PC mode is suitable for spreadsheets and surfing the Internet."

Cheers!

Well I should update you guys and let you know that the Color Temp and Gamma Settings didn't have much change on my dithering problems afterall. I mean they will fix the problem, but its the same trade off as when I turn contrast up or brightness down. End up losing shadow detail either way.
Going to try and DLP settings of 29 and 30 that were suggested and see if that makes a difference, or if it has the same trade offs.

Also, for my PS2 I have it set for Gamma 5 and Color all the way up and extra bright. If I tried to play games at the movie settings its too dark to see anything. I the only one that has to do this?

Originally posted by hikarate
Also, for my PS2 I have it set for Gamma 5 and Color all the way up and extra bright. If I tried to play games at the movie settings its too dark to see anything. I the only one that has to do this?


--- The PS2 is NTSC-J [ which is 0-IRE vs. 7.5-IRE ] so what you are experiencing is normal for the PS2 .


----------- Jason

This should probably go in the screens forum but you guys are usually helpful and responsive and I do have the H30. I have been experimenting with DIY screens. I know lumens are not everything but I need more brightness/lumens for my taste apparently. I used the rustoleum aluminum paint and it was plenty bright but small viewing cone and it was grainy. The grainy bothered me more than the cone. Then I made a form of LF screen with my aluminum backing and the mississippi mud top coat. It was fine but really didn't increase the gain. Any idea what screen might give me the increased gain I seek but still be good. Of course I dont want to spend much, as if that were possible. I'm wondering if I should pay for the screen or check into a different projector with more lumens.

Thanks Pimp. I didn't know your Pimpocity covered consoles as well as the PC.

Get a Dalite High Power pull down screen.

Originally posted by hikarate
Thanks Pimp. I didn't know your Pimpocity covered consoles as well as the PC.

--- Hehe , that's a new one ... 'Pimpocity' [ I like that :D ] .

--- Yeah , as an avid [ ok hardcore ] gamer I game on anything I can get my grubby paws on ;) .

--- You're welcome :) .

----------- Jason

hikarate,

what are you connecting the ps2 with? s-video, component?

all i have available to me now is composite, looks pretty crappy compared to the component cables of the xbox.

Originally posted by guitarman
April is a early model. We hv read there were early bulb problems and color wheel bearings. Pretty sure they've been QC'ed by now.

Tom & Pimp,

Today's contact with Optoma has been most promising. Sounds like they're stepping up and addressing my problem. Thanks for the info!

Todd

Great news Todd... good luck!

I wonder how that Mr. Jolson guy is doing with that SMART III setup :)

Can you read minds? I'm quite eager to hear about his experience with the Smart III. C'mon mjolson, enough with the suspense buildup already! :)

Originally posted by zeto
Can you read minds? I'm quite eager to hear about his experience with the Smart III. C'mon mjolson, enough with the suspense buildup already! :)

Had to do some HTPC upgrading this week. Hopefully tomorrow night I can do the calibration.

Todd, good news. That was easy.

Originally posted by hsbc
hikarate,

what are you connecting the ps2 with? s-video, component?

all i have available to me now is composite, looks pretty crappy compared to the component cables of the xbox.

I was originally setup with S-Video but ended up getting a Monster Component cable for it. Huge improvement. I can't imagine how much better it would be than composite.


I also tried the DLP Brightness Contrast setting and that had no greater effect on dithering than Gamma or Normal Brightness changes. I am getting a 9800 AIW card this week though, so I'll see if that makes a difference on the PC end.

One more PS2 question. I have to use zoom level 2 for it to match the whole screen like my DVD Player. Anyone else having to do this?

As far as the scenes that dither and my H30. I can totally eliminate the dithering if I turn brightness high enough. I mean I have to pretty much ruin the picture to eliminate it. Or I can turn contrast up a couple notches to tone it down, but then I loose shadow detail.
Also it seems my Buffy discs have no where near the shadow detail that my DVDs do. Is that normal for TV stuff compared to movies?
Thanks as always guys.

Just an update my screens on order (45x80) and opefully all will be installed in a week or so....

Greetings.....

Tom/DaGamePimp

After over a week of reading most posts and noticing you guys in both 4805 and the Optoma forums I would like to ask something;

It may have been mentioned earlier but I have missed it if it was, anyway I am after a comparison between the H30 and the 4805. I know they are different formats but I am pretty sure I would prefer the 4:3 because as i read it I will be getting the best of both worlds in the 4:3 format.

A really HUGE 4:3 pic and virtually no downside in 16:3. In fact in Oz the H30 is listed as a 16:9 compatible machine rather than a 4:3. I have had to contact the distributer to confirm it is 4:3...

When I saw a demo of the 4805 I told the salesman I was in fact considering a 4:3 machine and he was gobsmacked. You would have thought I had just sacked him :>)

Anyway after listning to his protestations I assured him I had not yet decided nor had i even seen a 4:3 yet. BUT then i told him that just because more people were buying 16:9 than 4:3 it did not make it a "better" machine. I then gloated that my 20+ year old Sony Betamax VCR was still working whereas I had lost count of the VHS machines I have had.

Anyway, enough ranting a link or a pointer to any H2H between the 2 units would be much appreciated.

Many thanks

A really HUGE 4:3 pic and virtually no downside in 16:3.

Circlevision? ;)

Originally posted by Sankar
Circlevision? ;)

Sorry, you have lost me there

Cheers

The H30 is unique using it as a 4.3 projector because you can easily make use of the native aspects 16.9 including the 4.3. 16.9 native gives you 480 vertical pixels and about a 5inch more diagonal view for HDTV or wide screen DVD's.

I get kick out of the size of a 4.3 full screen video, whether it be a music video, classic, sport TV, Tivo whatever.

Right you don't lose a dime of real estate if you use a 4.3 screen with the H30. Actually you gain some real estate, about 5inches diagonal for wide screen dvd's and HDTV. Unique just to the H30.

If you want a wide screen only PJ, the 4805 would be one right now.

"16:3" would probably be quite a wide format ... hence "Circlevision" ;)

Originally posted by Whew!
When I saw a demo of the 4805 I told the salesman I was in fact considering a 4:3 machine and he was gobsmacked. You would have thought I had just sacked him :>)
That's funny :) I get that a lot as well.

After over 4 blissful months with the H30 I am still operating 60-70% of the time in 4:3 from SDTV and PC gaming. You are correct in that how you envision using it should guide your decision, especially since there is no real downside.

Cheers!

Sandkar, :>) its nearly 3.00am here. Eyes hangin out i gott go to bed!!. I did not notice the typo. lol

Thanks for the replies ppl. I did not know that the benefit was unique to the H30.

Are there any H2H's on the 2 machines?

Also i have been told by sales ppl here that the 'Local" version of the H30 is better than the American because it has been optimised for PAL. Would you have any views on this? I certainly would not know. I do know that they are not happy chappies when i said that the price we were expected to pay was ridiculous and that I could import from the US, pay freight and customs etc and still save nearly AU$1000.00. (approx(6-700 $US)
Also there is about a AU$300.000 difference in the price of the 4805 v H30 here. In the 4805's favour. Cheaper again via internet

Cheers

Hikarate,

Did you try to change both DLP brightness and DLP contrast as suggested?
When I changed only either one - no difference. After changing both as mmika suggested, dithering did disappear.

Strange thing is that I can still see dithering clearly in some digital TV sendings via cable. Maybe it is due to compression etc., don't know. But dithering has disappeared when watching DVDs.

Originally posted by guitarman
The H30 is unique using it as a 4.3 projector because you can easily make use of the native aspects 16.9 including the 4.3. 16.9 native gives you 480 vertical pixels and about a 5inch more diagonal view for HDTV or wide screen DVD's.

I get kick out of the size of a 4.3 full screen video, whether it be a music video, classic, sport TV, Tivo whatever.

Right you don't lose a dime of real estate if you use a 4.3 screen with the H30. Actually you gain some real estate, about 5inches diagonal for wide screen dvd's and HDTV. Unique just to the H30.

If you want a wide screen only PJ, the 4805 would be one right now.

Hi Tom I also get a kick out of full screen 4:3 I really can't understand why some folks are so convinced that 16:9 is the only option, don't they realise they can get the best of both worlds with the H30?

Oh BTW not sure what you mean about the 5 inches more diagonal, perhaps you would kindly enlighten me?

Regards, MikeDes

All your 16.9 material is about 5" more diagonal over a 16.9 screen user that would have to use the 16.9aspect. 16.9native makes for a larger picture.

Originally posted by guitarman
16.9native makes for a larger picture.

True, but only vertically and you do lose some of the picture horizontally in the tradeoff. Nonetheless, I often like using the 16:9 native with widescreen movies that are 2.2 to 2.4:1 to minimize black bars. At the lower ratios, the standard 16:9 setting fills the screen.

I suppose I should be a purist and never use the native 16:9, but hey, I like it. :D

Originally posted by MikeSRC
True, but only vertically and you do lose some of the picture horizontally in the tradeoff. Nonetheless, I often like using the 16:9 native with widescreen movies that are 2.2 to 2.4:1 to minimize black bars. At the lower ratios, the standard 16:9 setting fills the screen.

I suppose I should be a purist and never use the native 16:9, but hey, I like it. :D

So you had to give them the bad news. :) True, but the larger image grows on you quickly. Especially close up shots in the video, much larger/mucho better. :)

Tom ,

--- Hehe , well somebody has to keep the H30 marketing engine at idle ;) .

--- The dual AR function of the H30 is a very nice option , I certainly do agree there .

-------- Jason

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
--- Hehe , well somebody has to keep the H30 marketing engine at idle ;)
-------- Jason
True Jason.. ;)

But seriously- If someone is after a sub $2K 4:3 projector is there a better option even after the H30 has been out for over a 1/2 a year? :)

Cheers!

I took a few pictures of the what i think is the dithering problem, I havn't gone into the service menu to make any adjustments yet, but I wanted to know if this is what you guys mean by dithering... here's a pic, you can see the blue noise in the dark blacks. These show up once in a while, the shot is from underworld.

Again, being played through an XBOX with progressive scan output.

In the Next post I'll post another little thing I found (I don't know how to attatch 2 pictures in the same post)....

Okay, next question

maybe dagamepimp knows about this...

When I played games that were able to be output in 1080i, I got a werid screen image. The right side of the frame looked like it wasn't keystoning properly, the screen right edge is at an angle (see pic), while the rest of the image is fine.

is this normal? my keystone is set to -16.

this only happened at 1080i, 720p and the image is fine.

I hardly use 1080i (almost never) but I'd still like to know about this... as always thanks for all the info and thoughts!!

Originally posted by hsbc
I took a few pictures of the what i think is the dithering problem, I havn't gone into the service menu to make any adjustments yet, but I wanted to know if this is what you guys mean by dithering... here's a pic, you can see the blue noise in the dark blacks. These show up once in a while, the shot is from underworld.

Again, being played through an XBOX with progressive scan output.

In the Next post I'll post another little thing I found (I don't know how to attatch 2 pictures in the same post)....
Wow... I have never seen a pic like that out of my unit. Is it raining hard in that scene or something? :) I have never seen Underworld. Methinks you need to pick up a decent progressive scan DVD player (and AVIA or DVE!) if you can swing it.

Cheers!

Probably both problems are related to the game box. Time to test a DVD player.

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
Tom ,

--- Hehe , well somebody has to keep the H30 marketing engine at idle ;) .

--- The dual AR function of the H30 is a very nice option , I certainly do agree there .

-------- Jason

True, if we don't keep up on things, well we wouldn't want the PJ to get discontinued before it's time. Need more intrest in the fact that it can display 800X600 4.3. Like everbody was complaining about in the very beginning of the thread. ;)

"what to you mean it's a cripled SVGA, It can't display 800X600!"

stuff like that. :)

Originally posted by hsbc
I took a few pictures of the what i think is the dithering problem, I havn't gone into the service menu to make any adjustments yet, but I wanted to know if this is what you guys mean by dithering... here's a pic, you can see the blue noise in the dark blacks. These show up once in a while, the shot is from underworld.

Again, being played through an XBOX with progressive scan output.

In the Next post I'll post another little thing I found (I don't know how to attatch 2 pictures in the same post)....

Holy Dithering Batman! Yeah I never seen anything like that, even when I have my nose to the screen. Thats dithering though.

Looks more like signal break up. Like he twisted and S-video cable or something. Is it like that all the time, that's the ?

Originally posted by Vierimaa
Hikarate,

Did you try to change both DLP brightness and DLP contrast as suggested?
When I changed only either one - no difference. After changing both as mmika suggested, dithering did disappear.

Strange thing is that I can still see dithering clearly in some digital TV sendings via cable. Maybe it is due to compression etc., don't know. But dithering has disappeared when watching DVDs.

Vierimaa, that technique does work to limit dithering. But its the same effect as messing with Gamma or presets, or Contrast and Brightness. Essentially lowering contrast a bit and losing shadow detail masks the dithering problem. It may have even been a bit better by changing those system options, I don't know. It wasn't noticeable enough for me to leave them there. If it fixed your PJ up you may just have better cables, or DVD player, or something else that this change worked in conjunction with to really display a difference. For me, it wasn't much. But I'll have my 9800 Pro tomorrow to play with and see if it looks any better than the TI 4200SE I have on there now.
Thanks for the suggestion, its something I hadn't tried.

No, it's not like that all the time, only on certain dark scenes, some look great, and some... well look like that. my digital camera makes the image look alot worse than it really is, but that's pretty much the problem there....

Originally posted by MikeSRC
True, but only vertically and you do lose some of the picture horizontally in the tradeoff. Nonetheless, I often like using the 16:9 native with widescreen movies that are 2.2 to 2.4:1 to minimize black bars. At the lower ratios, the standard 16:9 setting fills the screen.

I suppose I should be a purist and never use the native 16:9, but hey, I like it. :D

I agree, in my initial testing after I got the H30 the 16x9 image seemed too stretched horizontally to me compared to how I'm used to seeing it on my mits. The mits has minimal overscan yet the image still seemed way to thin vertically. Native mode seemed more natural too me.. Maybe once everything is mounted and I have my regular screen I might see it differently, but that's how I saw it on my initial viewings

Originally posted by hsbc
I took a few pictures of the what i think is the dithering problem, I havn't gone into the service menu to make any adjustments yet, but I wanted to know if this is what you guys mean by dithering... here's a pic, you can see the blue noise in the dark blacks. These show up once in a while, the shot is from underworld.

Again, being played through an XBOX with progressive scan output.

In the Next post I'll post another little thing I found (I don't know how to attatch 2 pictures in the same post)....

wow that does look terrible, I can tell you I'm not getting that effect from my HTPC. I also got no where near that from a cheap $39 Cyberhome player I hooked to it. I've used my Xbox to play DVD's on my 30" set so I don't know what effect it would have blown up. But I can tell you you'll get a better image from a sub $100 progressive scan player.

Originally posted by hsbc
I took a few pictures of the what i think is the dithering problem, I havn't gone into the service menu to make any adjustments yet, but I wanted to know if this is what you guys mean by dithering... here's a pic, you can see the blue noise in the dark blacks. These show up once in a while, the shot is from underworld.

Again, being played through an XBOX with progressive scan output.

In the Next post I'll post another little thing I found (I don't know how to attatch 2 pictures in the same post)....

Can the xBox be that bad? Here's my shot from the same sequence, just perfect.

My picture
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30under1.jpg

Your picture
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/noise.jpg

You have a blue thing going on there. Have you checked a grayscale pattern or Gray Windows, are the dark ones blue in tint?

I havn't checked that yet, I'm assuming i'll need to check the grayscale in avia? and if the case is there is a blue push do I adjust just the blue brightness?

I remember one of your post's saying that in the advanced adjustments, the rgb brightness should be adjusted evenly?

I'm finally gonna go out and find myself a dvd player today, i'll post my findings soon. hope fully that fixes the issue.

Also, I'll try to find a cable to connect my laptop to the Pj to see what the result is. Is the cable that I need a male to male vga cable?

Thanks...

Originally posted by hsbc
Also, I'll try to find a cable to connect my laptop to the Pj to see what the result is. Is the cable that I need a male to male vga cable?

Yes.

Good luck!

Originally posted by hsbc
I havn't checked that yet, I'm assuming i'll need to check the grayscale in avia? and if the case is there is a blue push do I adjust just the blue brightness?

I remember one of your post's saying that in the advanced adjustments, the rgb brightness should be adjusted evenly?

I'm finally gonna go out and find myself a dvd player today, i'll post my findings soon. hope fully that fixes the issue.

Also, I'll try to find a cable to connect my laptop to the Pj to see what the result is. Is the cable that I need a male to male vga cable?

Thanks...


It's easy using the Advanced RGB's, If you see blue in the dark grays first just pull back the blue brightness until it's out of the gray. Lets say it takes 8 clicks back. For balance make it just 4 clicks back and increase the Red & green 4 clicks each. Same thing for the white or light grays. If you see a red/pink tint. First start with pulling back red-contrast. If it takes 10 clicks make it just 5 and increase the blue & green by 5 each.

Yup,

got my self a new dvd player today (yay), you guys were right, my xbox sucked as a dvd player, huge difference when it came to that dithering problem. Still learning about the projector (and the player now) but hopefully it's all good. Should of got it earlier and saved you all some reading and typing!!!

thanks alot, gonna give your tips a shot for calibration. all in all I'm still a happy h30 owner.

How do most people here switch between say their HTPC and say... another system that uses the component/vga inputs as well? It's a bit of a pain to have to keep switching the plugs everytime you want to use a different system isn't it? are there such things as Y splitters for component inputs?

Tom........... I have been off of this thread since I got my BenQ..., but a friend is interested in starting this addictive hobby.

Have you had a chance to compare the IF 4805... and other than the obviously inclusion of DVI on the 4805, how would you compare them?

Both would be in a light controlled room... 15'10" x 13.' (wants a 96" horizontal width picture)

Steve

hsbc, use an analog 4 into 1 switch box. One that has the red,white,yellow. You just transpose to red/green/blue.


Steve, 4805 and the H30 are about the same picture wise for color saturation and pop, with the H30 being smoother and having natural colors.



The 4805 is better for strick 16.9 uses and the OTB tune is better.

It comes down to whether a user wants a 4.3 or 16.9 machine at this point.

an analog switch box?

I've got a switch box now, I'm not sure if it's the same thing.

I use composite cables with it, yellow for video, red and white for the stereo sound signals? If that's the same thing as what you're talking about tom, will there be any loss in quality in plugging the component cables into it?

Originally posted by guitarman
and the OTB tune is better.



Thanks Tom...........

What is OTB?

Does either of these projectors have a "wide" mode similar to my BenQ? I have found it most enjoyable to watch normal television in this mode.. the image does not appear distorted like many units do when operating in their stretch mode.... it seems to leave the middle 70% of the image alone and just stretch the edges or something like that... the only time it is noticable is if their is a tight image on someone's face at the edge of the screen, which does not happen very often.

Thanks,

Steve

Out of box tuning, no stretch modes with the H30. You would need to view in their natural aspects. Not sure how the 4805 handles it.

hsbc,
Yes the switch box is the same, meant for red/white/yellow but you use it for component cables. Many use it and don't see signal problems, me included.

Okay Tom...........

But what is OTB tuner?

Steve

The factory tune up. You may have to coax the H30 a little. :)

Originally posted by hsbc
an analog switch box?

I've got a switch box now, I'm not sure if it's the same thing.

I use composite cables with it, yellow for video, red and white for the stereo sound signals? If that's the same thing as what you're talking about tom, will there be any loss in quality in plugging the component cables into it?
Several of us have used an HD15 switchbox either 2 or 4 port. This way you can just use DB15 cables up to the projector which can be a little handier and less expensive than long component runs. This type of switch and cable combo makes sense when there is a PC involved. I just put the adapter that came with the H30 on one of these ports and then ran a component cable to the DVD player. The other port just has a DB15 MM running to the PC's video card. Works great.

Here's an example- http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=SW17

Cheers!

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Okay Tom...........

But what is OTB tuner?

Steve


OTB = Out (of) The Box :D .

-------- Jason

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Several of us have used an HD15 switchbox either 2 or 4 port. This way you can just use DB15 cables up to the projector which can be a little handier and less expensive than long component runs. This type of switch and cable combo makes sense when there is a PC involved. I just put the adapter that came with the H30 on one of these ports and then ran a component cable to the DVD player. The other port just has a DB15 MM running to the PC's video card. Works great.

Here's an example- http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=SW17

Cheers!

--- Yep , I use a 4 way VGA switcher on the H30 as well . This can also allow you to use RGB to VGA breakout cables for your Component sources . I had my HTPC , Xbox , HD cable box and Dreamcast all connected through the switch [ up until installing the 4805 ;) ] .


----------- Jason

Jason-

Did the wind blow your hat off? :D

Originally posted by MikeSRC
True, but only vertically and you do lose some of the picture horizontally in the tradeoff. Nonetheless, I often like using the 16:9 native with widescreen movies that are 2.2 to 2.4:1 to minimize black bars. At the lower ratios, the standard 16:9 setting fills the screen.

I suppose I should be a purist and never use the native 16:9, but hey, I like it.


Hey I am confused again!!!!!

Do you or do you not lose some picture? I thought you only lost some resolution.

Does anyone have any screenshots of the same picture in both 4:3 and 16:9 from the Optoma and 4805?

Many thanks guys.

BTW I have seen a demo of a 4805 but there are No dealers in my city for Optoma and I have not been able to find any 4:3 projectors on display. So if I buy an Optoma It will be sight unseen without the ability to return it.

Many thanks for your help ppl.

Originally posted by Whew!
Hey I am confused again!!!!!

Do you or do you not lose some picture? I thought you only lost some resolution.
You do lose a few columns of pixels off each side in 16:9 native. Mike had an exact count but I don't recall what it was. When I toggle back and forth between 16:9 native and 16:9 you can see where a very minimal amount is chopped off the side on native mode. In return you get a taller (but still correct aspect ratio) picture that appears to be slightly "zoomed in". Like Mike mentions- it is probably not how the absolute purist would do it but it does fill the screen better and lessens the top and bottom black bars. You have the option of both which is great.

Does anyone have any screenshots of the same picture in both 4:3 and 16:9 from the Optoma and 4805?
Someone with access to both which I believe is only Mike and Jason would need to do that. I'd do one between the two 16:9 modes on the H30 if I could only find my stinkin camera I haven't seen for 2 weeks :)

Cheers!

One note on 16x9Native: if you use an HTPC, you'll end up with a vertically stretched picture. I setup another AR in Theatertek to stretch horizontally the same percentage (6.7% to 854) to compensate for this. Kind of a pain, but it makes sense that the zoom-n-crop wouldn't apply to the VGA input, otherwise you'd lose 27 pixels off each side of the computer desktop.

I have a couple of shots of 16.9scaled vs 16.9native/480p.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30scaled.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30480p.jpg


Here's a couple of shots on how 4.3scaled and 4.3 native will be different.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h304.31.jpg

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h304.32.jpg

The small view ofcourse is the scaled little tiny 4.3 image. lol

Originally posted by Whew!

Do you or do you not lose some picture? I thought you only lost some resolution.

With 16:9 you lose resolution (800 X 450 instead of 854 X 480). With Native 16:9 you lose some picture (800 X 480 instead of 854 X 480), 27 pixels off each side of the image.

Does anyone have any screenshots of the same picture in both 4:3 and 16:9 from the Optoma and 4805?


I did, but I might have erased them. Let me check.

You won't see much difference (if any) in screen shots anyway. The 4805 can look a little sharper with an upscaled input through DVI (like from a Bravo DVD player).

If I were making the decision today, I would go with whether I needed/wanted a 4:3 screen for a lot of 4:3 material. If you are going to watch a lot of 4:3, get the H30. If all you're going to watch are DVD movies that are primarily widescreen, then the 4805 would probably be my choice. I'm watching 95% DVDs on an H30, so don't go by me. :D

Still would like to see the new NECs in my theater room though. :rolleyes:

Jason-

I've my HTPC(ZoomPlayer+Intervideo codec) on the H30 through DVI-A>VGA cable, which give me optimal result.

With my Humax5400 Sat box (YUV>YCbCr DIY converter) on the H30 I've a good and detailed image but I guess USB s-video card+dscaler could be the only way to have HTPC-like image. I say USB only because I've a USB2-HUB just next the sat-box.

Can you show me some right link to HTPC+Dscaler configuration?

This also could give me a chance to have the H30 fixed on the HTPC.

I know this can be posted elsewhere...but the expert is here.

Thanks Jason, Tom, Mike..........

Thanks for the input guys. I guess price will now pay a bigger factor. Decisions Decisions Decisions

Cheers

I got the analog swich box to work, works great!!! Thanks for the tip!

I'm not using a pc right now, but that vga switch box will be good for later on, thanks for the help guys!!

hsbc, it sure is an easy out for inputs. I have Comcast, two dvd players a Direct TV for OTA.

Watched a classic Si fi flick today on the H30 in native 4.3 120" diag. :)
The Thing from another world. B&W but it sill looked great. You know after viewing this my widescreen movies look small.

I posted a new thread on the forum and didn't mean too again. I intended to post the question here. I am a moron. Anyway here is my question.

I got the zenith dvb 318 dvd player which works fine in 480p but it's performance isn't stellar in 480p. It performs best in 1080i but it is of course a little soft in that resolution with the H30 since the H30 isn't natively that high in resolution. Anyway the issue in 1080i is that I am getting a little digital white line in the upper left corner of the picture and with 720p I get several lines on the top of the picture. In 480p these are not present. Anyone know if its a problem with the player or the projector or what.

Here is the issue in 1080i.

It it's available try in the Image menu the signal vertical shift,

I can get rid of it that way in 720p because the lines are at the top of the screen not in the screen. In 1080i the line shows up a couple inches in the top of the screen so to shift it up to get rid of it I lose some picture then lines show up at the bottom. Screwing around with it tonight however I found I was able to sometimes get the lines to not show up at all. It's looking now like when I turn the dvd player on in the mode I wish to use it's ok but if I switch modes from 480p to 1080i the line is there so that is great. No more problem. Thank's, because the shift did get rid of the problem in 720 and it led me to mess around in such a way that I found what the 1080i problem was.

Looks like you figured out the solution on your own. I am currently experimenting with this player along with my H30. You have to shut down the DVD player after switching resolutions, or else the lines appear. I learned this after sifting throught the massive Zenith thread.

Well Jeff, I think the zenith may be best suited for a higher res projector since it performs best in 1080i mode. It's 480p mode, while a bit sharper than my old 480p player, it has some definate visible issues and artifacts. In 720p it has less issues and in 1080i it has none except may the cropping. Unfortunately, because H30 doesnt natively handle 720p or 1080i the softening in those resolutions increases with 720p being just a bit softer and 1080i being noticably softer.

Hello,

Do you believe that Momitsu 880D is a good DVD for the H30?

Wow!

Wheres all the Star Wars DVD talk, no screens or nothing, I am surprised. Tom did you pick it up? How does it compare to your LD if so? Probably another thread in the forum dedicated to this, I haven't looked around though, just always check here to see whats going on.

Star Wars looks great on the H30. :D

The remastered transfer is excellent and the DVD looks better than most new issues. I know there's been some complaining about some changes to the soundtrack of Episode IV, but who cares with video this good.

I don't have the LD, but I'd be interested in the comparison.

I've been avoiding talking about it since I Have to wait until my screen is in and PJ Up to watch Dang nabit.

Originally posted by hikarate
Wow!

Wheres all the Star Wars DVD talk, no screens or nothing, I am surprised. Tom did you pick it up? How does it compare to your LD if so? Probably another thread in the forum dedicated to this, I haven't looked around though, just always check here to see whats going on.

I picked up both the Full Screen & the Widescreen versions hikarate.

Mike I have the Laser Disc set and it blows compared to the DVD's.

Man they did a bang up job on everything. Goodbye Fifth Element/hello New Hope. :)

Nah , the SW dvd's are not that good ... look carefully [ certainly no SB 5th Element ] . They are the best that has ever been released , no doubt there [ better video than the LD's but the audio on the LD still sounded better to me ] .

--- Besides the fact that now you can really notice how fake everything looks :( .

--- The dang Hoth snowbeast that grabs Luke looks like the Bumble from the Rudolph Christmas clay-mation cartoon . - lol :D


----------------- Jason

Disagree disagree, no reason to be a spoiler on this series. Sound an video is excellent.

Boy you gamer guys are trouble. ;)

Originally posted by guitarman
Disagree disagree, no reason to be a spoiler on this series. Sound an video is excellent.

Boy you gamer guys are trouble. ;)


Tom [ sheesh does ole' George buy cigars from you or something ;) ] ,

--- I am not knocking the series , I am a huge SW fan . However I see no reason to make people think the dvd's are of reference image quality [ the best SW image ever ... yes , but reference ... no ] .

--- I don't get what me being a Gamer has to do with anything ... as if I don't know reference image quality because I am a gamer as well as an HT nut :D .


--- I think the dvd's are very good [ especially considering the age of the films ] but don't expect reference image quality is all I am saying ;) . Now it could be much worse , they could look like the Predator dvd .


**** Sorry for the OT discussion , let's not have another SW debate in this thread [ there are already way too many of those going on elsewhere ;) ] . ****

----------------- Jason

"Boy you gamer guys are trouble"

It's just my favorite cliche to throw back at you. Must be the handle

There's really nothing I don't like about the DVD's. Gotta get some screen shots going.

Cool guys! Thanks for the info, sounds like they are winners. I need to get my H30 back up so I can watch these, just have a lot of other things going on right now unfortunately :(

Need some quick advice. Got my H30, got the HTIB I want, got the wiring done, shopping for furninture. The room is getting sheetrock now and the carpet guy will be in as soon as I get the new walls painted. I can't find a mount!! - at least not the SP86301-001 - anywhere. What's my fallback? I don't want to wait untill the last minute 'cause I've got to get screen placement (I'm doing the Behr Silver Screen thing) and get my speakers mounted. So... help!

You can try a Panavise mount that others here have used successfully. More about that on DaGamePimp's website here (http://home.comcast.net/~jlcburg3/wsb/html/view.cgi-resources.html-.html).

Also, there are a few people on Ebay that sell some nice mounts for the H30 and other projectors.

I am using the Panavise with great success!

Was there ever a consensus on the best DVD player to go with the H30? Thought maybe one of the digital players would be good...

I thought the Zenith 318 would be ok but some people are having problems.

I use a Pany XP30 it has the best Mpeg/& Faroujda deinterlacer. If you can find one of these.

Pany XP30, RP82, XP50, Denon 1600.

For newer DVD players, look at the Denon 2910. The 1910 is not bad, but it uses a cheaper version of the Faroudja chip than the 2910.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
You can try a Panavise mount that others here have used successfully. More about that on DaGamePimp's website here (http://home.comcast.net/~jlcburg3/wsb/html/view.cgi-resources.html-.html).

Also, there are a few people on Ebay that sell some nice mounts for the H30 and other projectors.

MikeSRC

Thanks for the advice. Am shopping on wheebay right now for a Panavise 826 as so aptly installed and shown by UnknownShadow on 8-12. This should work! Many thanks

Originally posted by BoothT
MikeSRC

Thanks for the advice. Am shopping on wheebay right now for a Panavise 826 as so aptly installed and shown by UnknownShadow on 8-12. This should work! Many thanks


--- Be sure you get the 826 - 6 inch version [ not the 9 inch ] and stay clear of the Thumb-screws unless you get a killer deal [ they can be popped off from what has been reported which will allow the allen key to be used for a much tighter hold ] .
--- Also be sure to clean out the excess paint inside the ball socket's before you get it near the H30 [ some paint chips could fall down into the vents on the H30 ] .
--- Now if you need the drop of the 9" and only plan to let it hang straight down then by all means get it ;) .


--- By the way , does anybody that originally bought the 9" 826 still have it and wish to get rid of it , I have a use for one but do not wish to pay full price unless I have to ;) [ thanks ] .

---------- Jason

Yup - Got the 6" - the white one. Good to know about the paint. I'll clean it up before I attach the PJ. Using MDF as a mounting plate looks like a good idea as well. Photo does not show thumbscrews. Where would they be?

Originally posted by BoothT
Yup - Got the 6" - the white one. Good to know about the paint. I'll clean it up before I attach the PJ. Using MDF as a mounting plate looks like a good idea as well. Photo does not show thumbscrews. Where would they be?

--- You do not need to use a mounting plate with the H30/Panavise combo , it bolts right to the 1/4-20 tri-pod mount ;) [ that is the beauty of the Panavise ] . Unless you meant for mounting the Panavise to the ceiling ;) [ probably what you meant ] .

--- There are 2 different versions of the Panavise style mount so if yours does not show the thumb-screws it should not have them [ the one with the thumb-screws is actually the 827 but that is the only difference ;) ] .


---------- Jason

I actually bought the telescoping version - 9-13" I think. I wasn't sure if I was getting firmware 5 or 7 so I wanted to be safe. I got 5, so I took off all except the last joint and have it very close to the ceiling. The nice thing about the Panavise mounts is that the parts are all interchangeable - you can always buy an extension or a shorter arm, etc... Oh yah, the price is right too.

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
--- You do not need to use a mounting plate with the H30/Panavise combo , it bolts right to the 1/4-20 tri-pod mount ;) [ that is the beauty of the Panavise ] . Unless you meant for mounting the Panavise to the ceiling ;) [ probably what you meant ] .

--- There are 2 different versions of the Panavise style mount so if yours does not show the thumb-screws it should not have them [ the one with the thumb-screws is actually the 827 but that is the only difference ;) ] .


---------- Jason

:) Think I know what you mean - was assuming I would do the same as Shadow's 4805 setup on his gallery. After looking at my H30, it looks like there is actually a tripod mounting hole along with those three little M3 screw holes that have been discussed previously.

Appreciate mjolson's comments as well, since I tried holding the PJ up where I want to mount it, and projecting on to the new sheetrock. I'm mounting this next to a soffit that had to be built around the HVAC ducts and it's gonna be close. When I get in the 6" range I start cutting off the upper left corner of the immage on @ 16x9. Kinda hard to explain, but I may need to extend the panavise an inch or so. When I figure it out, I'll post some pix. Thanks again to all:D :D

On the DVD player the zenith would be a good player especially if you have a 1080i display or PJ. The 480p performance is ok but there are some artifacts I can see in that mode. Like I said before it's a little soft in 1080i on the H30 only because of the resolution but Ryan you said your preference is to purposefully defocus your H30 a little so maybe the zenith would be ok if you like that effect. Also in 1080 it was tougher to get the colors right as the 1080 mode puts out less "red" red and it is more toward the "orange" red but with significant tweaking it came around ok. What I have been suprised by is how different DVD players output is. I never knew they were so different untill I started comparing different players with the PJ. Even the different output modes of the zenith, 480p and 720p and 1080i all have inherently different color and contrast and artifact behavior.

I am comming around to enjoy the H30 more. I was initially a bit dissapointed because it wasn't as bright as I wanted. I was trying to get the CRT experience in a PJ. After a "lot" of tweaking I am now pretty happy with the picture. I think that my brain and I are also adjusting. I compared the picture to a friends BenQ 6200 this week. Ok course in 1080i the picture is sharper on upcoverted DVDs but not in 480p. Despite the 6200's higher lumen rating, in the appropriate cinema mode it is not noticably brighter than the H30. The rainbows are also pretty noticable on the 6200 as compared to the H30 where you have to work pretty hard to see em. The CR is a bit less pronounced on the 6200. The color on the 6200 isn't as close and can't be tweaked to perfection like the H30 can but then again everyone is not a crazy tweaker like some of us. Hopefully now that I've got a lot of the tweaking done and out of my system I can pop in a movie and enjoy it, watching the movie and getting into it instead of color and contrast and gamma etc. My wife doesn't appreciate me tweaking during the movie.

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
--- You do not need to use a mounting plate with the H30/Panavise combo , it bolts right to the 1/4-20 tri-pod mount ;) [ that is the beauty of the Panavise ] . Unless you meant for mounting the Panavise to the ceiling ;) [ probably what you meant ] .

---------- Jason

Not sure what mount this is but remember that the 1/4-20 and the three M3 mounting holes are only plastic so great care must be taken not to overtighten the screws as the threads can easily strip.

I'd suggest winding them in finger tight then tighten no more than 1 flat on a hexagon or cap head screw (60 degrees) and see how that feels, if you really feel it's necessary carefully tweak them just a little bit more.
You want to tighten them just enough so the projector feels reasonably rigid and that there is no danger of the screws working loose.
Any more than this is likely to stress the plastic threads and actually reduce their supportive strength, permanently.

Also remember that the tri-pod mounting hole is intended for supporting the H30 from below not inverted from the ceiling.

For those who have mounted this way I read somewhere that some people added inconspicous straps or wires between the vacant M3 holes to the mounting bracket as added security.

Being an engineer I made my own mount utilising the three M3 holes, as an added precaution I also drilled an additional hole for the tri-pod mount and fitted an additional screw to be sure it wouldn't hurl itself from the ceiling.

The H30's a great bit of kit but those woefully inadequate M3 plastic mounting holes are pretty scary!

Regards MikeDes

I am using the XP30, so I'll stick with it!

Still looking forward to calibration- I'm getting 480p and 720p calibrated in November! I eyeball it pretty good, but I know it can be better. Eyeballing HD is very difficult.

My favorite DVD player. Are you having someone calibrate or are you picking up a colorfacts rental ($300)? The Smart III item ($300) is said to work well also.

Originally posted by mikedes
Not sure what mount this is but remember that the 1/4-20 and the three M3 mounting holes are only plastic so great care must be taken not to overtighten the screws as the threads can easily strip.

I'd suggest winding them in finger tight then tighten no more than 1 flat on a hexagon or cap head screw (60 degrees) and see how that feels, if you really feel it's necessary carefully tweak them just a little bit more.
You want to tighten them just enough so the projector feels reasonably rigid and that there is no danger of the screws working loose.
Any more than this is likely to stress the plastic threads and actually reduce their supportive strength, permanently.

Also remember that the tri-pod mounting hole is intended for supporting the H30 from below not inverted from the ceiling.

For those who have mounted this way I read somewhere that some people added inconspicous straps or wires between the vacant M3 holes to the mounting bracket as added security.

Being an engineer I made my own mount utilising the three M3 holes, as an added precaution I also drilled an additional hole for the tri-pod mount and fitted an additional screw to be sure it wouldn't hurl itself from the ceiling.

The H30's a great bit of kit but those woefully inadequate M3 plastic mounting holes are pretty scary!

Regards MikeDes

--- Good Suggestions ;) .

--- The good thing with the H30 is that it is so light so it does not take much to hold it .

--- Another point of the 1/4-20 mount option is that once your connection cables are connected the H30 cannot spin off the Panavise mount as it would have to make several revolutions to actually fall off . So even if it did come loose it should not go anywhere [ a safety cable is still a good idea however with any ceiling mounting system IMO ] .


------------ Jason

Any H30 owner needed to, or has cleaned the color wheel yet?

Nope, there's a nice glass shield between the CW and bulb.

I am getting my projector calibrated by Gregg Loewen of Lion Audio Video and Keohi HDTV. By reputation, he's one of the best!

Fifth times the charm!

Amazingly...my FIFTH H30 projector is finally not a buzzer. I just got my a new unit replacement for my H30, and this one is finally quiet...almost silent. There is a NIGHT and DAY difference between this and the other four that I have had. No change to anything else in the setup, so I'm sure that there's quite a difference in H30 noise levels.

Also, for what it's worth, I am convinced that the C07 firmware has changed the default zoom level. I designed my screen to be filled when the zoom was approximately 1.1. Now, at 1.0, the picture over-runs the size of my image (and that's the smallest I can make it). Very strange. Has anyone else noticed this? I find it quite odd that the firmware update would modify the optics. I almost wonder if there's a digital zoom going on that isn't specified in the menus. Any thoughts on that one?

I do have to say I am VERY happy now. I've had the H30 since April, and this is the first time I have ever heard the "whisper quiet" of the H30 in my own home theater, and I just love it.

Glad I was patient...I almost gave up. :)

Originally posted by RyanJNielson
I am getting my projector calibrated by Gregg Loewen of Lion Audio Video and Keohi HDTV. By reputation, he's one of the best!

Gregg is good he did my Mits RPTV. He'll work on it till it's perfect

ToddR & Jigrillo

Hi guys just wondering how you fared with your bulb problems, did Optoma sort it or did you have to pay for new ones?


Regards, MikeDes

Hello all, it's been awhile hehe...
Well after my new full unit replacement(blown bulb twice, multiple shut downs) my new unit has been flawless for 874 hrs untill the other day about 1 hour into a game of battlefield it just shut off. My heart dropped, I've been on economode the whole time now and it happened with no temp warning or anything.
Well tonight it happened again, turned itself off and no temp warning or anything. flash orange pwr dwn then back to green. Feels like old times.

I just shut off the auto powerdown feature is this a bad thing hehe?
fingers crossed now ...

By the way"band of brothers" dvd set looks just awesome
gonna watch the episode: bastogne tonight I hope ...

Akso, what is the best place to get a spare bulb? I would like an extra kicking around I think. thanks

I never used the auto power down feature. Best to find the bulb number and do a google search. They're probably around $350. No where near the SXRD's $3,000 but still a chunk.

Hey Valk, you're on a lucky streak now, lol
Sound good, who know maybe with C07 the glass the image is going thru makes a difference. Wing did say the picture would be a little better. Do you see anything?

Sorry, I've not been in this thread for a few months. I tried searching, but with the size of this, well,

Could someone please give a brief outline about what C07 does beyond the C05 firmware? I sent my H30 back a number of months ago for the C05 upgrade, and wonder if I need to consider the 07 upgrade.

H30 is table mounted, shooting to a retro-reflective screen.

I appreciate your help.

John F
LV, NV

CO7 just relocated the 16.9 image to being at the top of the 4.3 chip instead of the bottom. Less offset

I must not be thinking clearly right now - wouldn't this result in more offset for a table mounted application, anyway? Right now, light spill is at the top, it would move to the bottom, right? The image would be higher, more offset?

Is it adjustable (bottom, middle, top kind of thing?) Thanks, Tom.

John F

After using the H30 for more than half a year I still can't get used to the rainbow effect, especially now the pj is properly calibrated (better contrast). So I am going to sell it. Is there any LCD pj that has similar video quality (I love the blacks and colours of the H30), even for a (much) higher price? I don't care for higher res as I only watch DVD. Thanks.

Hello,

Does somebody know if Optoma's technicians will take out some new firm (c08) to improve the projector?


Greetings from Spain

Originally posted by jfried
I must not be thinking clearly right now - wouldn't this result in more offset for a table mounted application, anyway? Right now, light spill is at the top, it would move to the bottom, right? The image would be higher, more offset?

Table mounted, there's no difference with the c07 firmware. It just reduces the offset for ceiling mounting so that it has the same offset to the top of the image as it does to the bottom of the image when table mounted.

Originally posted by Mike Versteeg
After using the H30 for more than half a year I still can't get used to the rainbow effect, especially now the pj is properly calibrated (better contrast). So I am going to sell it. Is there any LCD pj that has similar video quality (I love the blacks and colours of the H30), even for a (much) higher price? I don't care for higher res as I only watch DVD. Thanks.

You may want to check out the Panasonic projectors. They have very, very little SDE and good colors. Still, though, I found that I really only see rainbows on the H30 when I set the contrast setting too high. Perhaps you could use a filter to reduce the brightness a bit but maintain a good contrast ratio.

Miguel.

Originally posted by genesabas
Hello,

Does somebody know if Optoma's technicians will take out some new firm (c08) to improve the projector?


Greetings from Spain

The last thing they will do is add a digital shift so you could move the 16.9 image.

Rainbows or headaches. If you're getting headaches from DLP's you'll hv to try LCD's. How about that little Epson that the H30 beat out in HT review. Thinking this price range. Maybe a closeout Pany 500 or 300.

If you can go up towards 2grand then the Pany 700.

Mike,
Good timing. I have just recieved my projector back from Optoma today. They replaced the bulb, which I guess was faulty. Took them almost a month to send it back though. :confused:

So what is the final verdict with powering down the projector? With the bulb that went out before, I used to have it connected to a power switch and completely deprive it of power after it cooled down. What is the correct action for powering down.

I never unplug mine unless I'm going away for a few days (which lately I never do ;) ). I just turn it off via remote and always leave it in standby mode. The big thing is not to turn it back on until it's been off for at least 30 minutes.

I turned off the auto shutdwn and it seems to be working back to it's fine self!

Hey I wonder if someone would write a tutorial on how to clean one of these properly inside like the glass before the colorwheel. I have always cleaned my own stuff and think I may need to eventually. thanks...

Mike's got it down to a science. Wing said only unplug when you're going on vacation.

rocker, you'll just have to clean dust off the lens once in a while. First use compressed air and then some lens cleaner with a super soft cloth like you get at the eyeglass store.

The only things I've checked in the system menu is

Source lock to on

Blanking to Blue

Bulb to econo

Man this thing is still very bright in econo. It's one bright little puppy. :)

Tom,

Did Wing give you an H77 to play with?

I wish :)

I did get an accommodation deal though. I still use my H30, especially for any 4.3 Classic's or Music Videos. I won't watch 4.3 on the the H77, too small. :)

What does the source lock do? Please don't respond lock th source..:p

So I can't remember, what is Color setting do you set it to? Is it 2?
Is the gamma now 1 since the calibrated shoot out?

Curses! Foiled again!
Nah, I still got my buzzer, but skipped the 5 replacement hassle I suppose.
Congratz Valk, you my friend deserve it!

Originally posted by valkyrie
Fifth times the charm!

Amazingly...my FIFTH H30 projector is finally not a buzzer. I just got my a new unit replacement for my H30, and this one is finally quiet...almost silent. There is a NIGHT and DAY difference between this and the other four that I have had. No change to anything else in the setup, so I'm sure that there's quite a difference in H30 noise levels.

Also, for what it's worth, I am convinced that the C07 firmware has changed the default zoom level. I designed my screen to be filled when the zoom was approximately 1.1. Now, at 1.0, the picture over-runs the size of my image (and that's the smallest I can make it). Very strange. Has anyone else noticed this? I find it quite odd that the firmware update would modify the optics. I almost wonder if there's a digital zoom going on that isn't specified in the menus. Any thoughts on that one?

I do have to say I am VERY happy now. I've had the H30 since April, and this is the first time I have ever heard the "whisper quiet" of the H30 in my own home theater, and I just love it.

Glad I was patient...I almost gave up. :)

Originally posted by valkyrie
Fifth times the charm!


valk, FIVE TIMES? Good lord! I would have given up long ago and told Optoma to stuff it. Seriously. Hopefully this one will stay whisper quiet for you so you can enjoy it.

Originally posted by jigrillo
What does the source lock do? Please don't respond lock th source..:p

So I can't remember, what is Color setting do you set it to? Is it 2?
Is the gamma now 1 since the calibrated shoot out?

Source lock will set the projector to just hunt for the one signal input you hit on the remote. If a signal drops out it will again just look the the last signal. Instead of going through each signal type which can take some time.

I use gamma 2 color temp 2 which looks best for my projector. Pick what looks best for yours, usually between Gamma 1&2 and CT 1&2. Bring up a pluge pattern with Avia or any pattern with shade steps of gray. The THX Optimizer's brightness pattern also shows steps of gray. Toggle you color temp and see which one make the best grays.

I'm puzzled Valk why did you need 5 machines, pls describe each problem?

Unit 1 - Was a buzzer from Dell. I had never had a projector nor had I heard the H30, but it just seemed too loud, especially when compared to the Dell MP2300 we have at work. Optoma exchanged it without question. They said the original unit was "in spec" and that they would continue to investigate.

Unit 2 - Sounded exactly the same as unit 1. I had both units at the same time for one day since Optoma sent Unit 2 in advance (w/ credit card hold). I sent back Unit 1 (though it wouldn't matter either way). Unit 2 worked and the buzzing died slightly for a period of about 2 months (maybe ~200 hours), then had the one day refused to start up. It tried three times, then went solid while the amber "lamp" light also went solid. (If I recall correctly - whatever it was, the combination was NOT in the user manual). Optoma agreed to take it back and issue a replacement.

Unit 3 - was actually another H30 I bought locally from Fry's to test the "buzzing" theory. I wanted to really see if I had indeed just gotten two bad ones. I brought it home, compared it to the two others, only to find it was also a buzzer. I almost gave up and decided to call it quits. I returned that unit to Fry's, but then found another H30 owner in Seattle to let me demo his and mine at his place. His was whisper quiet, and once I plugged mine in at his place, so was mine. I resolved it to be a neighborhood power problem and just decided to live with it (until unit 2 failed, see above).

Unit 4 - Arrived as a replacement for Unit 2. It was the loudest yet, and also had large "blobs" on the screen during black scenes. I think there was dust trapped inside the casing, and it was easily apparent on the screen. Back to Optoma it went.

Unit 5 - Arrived just about 2 weeks ago. I first hooked it up at work on a new dedicated power outlet we put in for a treadmill. It was the quietest I had heard the H30 yet. I tried it again in another room at work, then in the living room at home before the basement (where the HT is located). Each time was a little louder, but not much. I'm guessing the H30 is just very sensitive to a clean power signal. Anyway, it's been about 2 weeks, this unit is nice and quiet. I'm happy, though I hate calibrating this thing for color each time. I'm hoping this one lasts...though it does have problems starting every once in a while. I have it connected to an Iscan pass-through connection. The iScan stays on all the time (power-save mode, no "power-off"), so I think the H30 is having trouble with that, even though the other components are all off. I worry this will decrease the life fo the bulb or H30.

I guess when I look back on it now, it's part comical and part annoying. I have enjoyed the discussions here and the projector, when working...is stunning. I still think the zoom on the C07 firmware is different than the 05, though I haven't heard anyone else bring it up.

So...that's my story. A bit comical, I know. At least Optoma keeps trying to help...I just wish they were more forthcoming with information. To date, they claim to have no knowledge of a "buzzing" problem, though I've heard it clearly with my own ears.

Not many complain about buzzers anymore. Lets see how the new one goes. It does seem your enviorment's power is in question (anyway keep the house) :) I hope the ISCAN isn't sending a pre signal before you start up your projector each time. You know the manual statement in not having signals on until the projector's ready.

At least you've learned to become a super tuner of digital displays. ;)

I would agree there's something fishy with the power, though with the previous units they DID buzz when I was at work (this is the first one to not buzz at work, or at home). I have tried everything short of having an electrician out to solve my power problem. Tried UPS, line conditioner, check grounds, checked voltage, even shut off every circuit breaker in the house, save the one with the projector. No luck. Oddly enough, the dimmers I have at the wall outlet have no effect on any of the H30's, either good or bad. I think I'll have to be content to let this one go down as a mystery. :)

I was re-reading the H30 review at Cine4Home, and he actually used a color correcting yellow filter rather than the magenta FL-D filter others have been using. I couldn't follow the Babelfish translation very well, but is there any one out there who has tried this? Or Ekkehart, if you're still out there, which CC filter did you use?

Miguel.

The FLD looks pretty good but in the end most will still like the bright image without it. They have the Yellow filters at the camera store. Which one is best, who knows? You'll be needing a calibrating program also, colorfacts/Smart III.

At first you could try your eye with a grayscale pattern. The gamma scale in Avia also, but I have a hard time matching up the gamma on that pattern. I always choose the gamma I'm looking for and say yeah that one matches up right. So the science is off. lol

Yeah, calibrating by eye with the grayscale--I've sure done a lot of that! :)
I've actually gotten it to a point that I am pretty comfortable with, but I never stop tweaking, unfortunately. I thought it might be more accurate with the filter. Brightness wouldn't matter that much, since I'm projecting onto an 84" screen. Does the filter make an appreciable difference in darkening the blacks?

Evening Gents!

Been away for a week running around in the Nevada desert playing softball, I'm getting to old for this crap. :)

Valk- very glad to hear the 5th one was a charm. Good luck!

Jason- I have a new in box 9" Panavise I was keeping as a spare but not sure I'll need it. PM me if interested.

Mr. Jolson!!- I see you popped in last Thursday with a post about the Panavise. What the heck is going on with that Smart III thing man??? You're killing us here. :)

Cheers!

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Mr. Jolson!!- I see you popped in last Thursday with a post about the Panavise. What the heck is going on with that Smart III thing man??? You're killing us here. :)

Cheers!

Waiting actually. I did one run with the SMART system and got some really strange results. on color temp2, blue and green were about 34% too weak, even though the picture appeared "cool" to me. EnhancedHT thinks the meter may be faulty, so I'm awaiting a replacement. Soon hopefully!

Mike

Originally posted by Fabbas
Yeah, calibrating by eye with the grayscale--I've sure done a lot of that! :)
I've actually gotten it to a point that I am pretty comfortable with, but I never stop tweaking, unfortunately. I thought it might be more accurate with the filter. Brightness wouldn't matter that much, since I'm projecting onto an 84" screen. Does the filter make an appreciable difference in darkening the blacks?

The FLD will richen up the picture, colors and blacks. Maybe I'll try a yellow filter also since I'm pretty well caught up on eyeballing a grayscale. :)

Mike SRC tried the FLD he liked it but I bet he doesn't use it. In the end most everybodys use to and happy with the stock image. I'll bet it's the same way with the 4805 guys using the ND2 filters. Actually Jason posted a screen shot with the ND2, I thought it looked drab.

Come out and see the light. :)

Originally posted by guitarman
Todd, good news. That was easy.

Well, they've upgraded the firmware and replaced the "engine," which I presume is the actual DLP guts of the unit. It should be quieter, though I didn't officially think I had a loud one on my hands, but then again, I had barely used it.

They also determined that the projector didn't cause the bulb to fail, so I'm screwed on that. I was told that Philips makes the bulb, which has its own 90 day warrany, which I'm well beyond. I'm thrilled to be looking at $400 to replace a bulb with about 20 hours on it and which I had only watched one full movie on from start to finish!

If someone has a great place I might order a bulb module, let me know via private message.

Frustrated,

Todd

So you're getting the PJ back with the dead bulb. Not great, but they're holding to the Phillips 90day, otherwise they eat the cost. Couldn't you work with the Product Mgr. Work out a deal? I think it's Greg but I'll check. Worth a shot the guys in the line don't hv the power.

Tell him guitarman told you to call him, he knows me.
good luck, maybe a cost deal something like that.

Originally posted by guitarman
So you're getting the PJ back with the dead bulb. Not great, but they're holding to the Phillips 90day, otherwise they eat the cost. Couldn't you work with the Product Mgr. Work out a deal? I think it's Greg but I'll check. Worth a shot the guys in the line don't hv the power.

Tell him guitarman told you to call him, he knows me.
good luck, maybe a cost deal something like that.

Thanks for the response, Tom.

I can fax them credit card info to buy it from them, which they would install before returning the unit to me, or it can come back lamp-less and I'd have to obtain one elsewhere.

I'll have to try to reach this product manager you speak of tomorrow. Seems like they should have recourse with Phillips as their lamp supplier, given how many they obviously use.

It'll be at least midday central time before I try to call, in case you determine Greg isn't his name after all. ;-)

Many months now with the H30. I guess I have one of the earlier version with the earlier firmware. Still working flawlessly. Not a single buzz. Still applying the power shutdown I used to do with the X1. Shutting off the power via a powerbar without cooldown. Let the H30 cool down on its own accord. So far so good. "Knock on wood"

I'm concerned on all these bulb issues I've had the H30 for about a month but only have about 8 hrs on it becasue I've been waitung to get the screen and get it mounted. I hope I don't sit down to watch a full movie only to be staring at a $300 bulb bill.

When I was looking for a projector I viewed the H30 together with the epson TW-10H (think its homelite 10+ or something in the US) And I found the epson looking better.

Kinda wierd seeing everyone here loves it so much.

Originally posted by ToddR
Thanks for the response, Tom.

I can fax them credit card info to buy it from them, which they would install before returning the unit to me, or it can come back lamp-less and I'd have to obtain one elsewhere.

I'll have to try to reach this product manager you speak of tomorrow. Seems like they should have recourse with Phillips as their lamp supplier, given how many they obviously use.

It'll be at least midday central time before I try to call, in case you determine Greg isn't his name after all. ;-)

You won't need his full name ask the operator for the Product Mgr. Mention guitarman, try to cut a cost deal. The 20hrs of use has to raise some eyebrows.
good luck

A Epson 10, no way/ no blacks/ serious SD, HT mag already went thru a thorough comparison on these two. Hands down winner H30, nice try. :)

So if this bulb is made my phillips then what kind of warranty does phillips have? Anybody know this?

Originally posted by jigrillo
So if this bulb is made my phillips then what kind of warranty does phillips have? Anybody know this?

It appears to be 90 days.

My television is 12 years old, but I still don't worry about it blowing up every time I turn it on, like I'll probably do when I get my projector back.

That's not meant as an indictment of the H30, but rather prjoectors in general, as they are a device with a limited-life, user-replaceable component for which one has to expect the expense.

I would just like mine to last longer than 1% of its stated life next time!

The warranty from virtually any projector bulb manufacturer is 90 days, which is usually through the projector manufacturer.

The bulb in my H30 was made by Osram/Sylvania, but apparently they've switched to Philips now.

Hey Mikey! someone just asked me if I still like the H30. I said did u see all my screenshots, it's a mother beautiful projector! Love it.

I sure hope Glen helps Scott out. I know the timings off but sometimes you have to make a pity judgment call (20hrs).

Here's a tip though, electronics liked to be used, they tend to hold up better with constant usage.

Originally posted by guitarman
I'll bet it's the same way with the 4805 guys using the ND2 filters. Actually Jason posted a screen shot with the ND2, I thought it looked drab.

Come out and see the light. :)

--- Oh now Tom , let us not start this debate again ... you should know as well as any experienced HT'er that you cannot base actual image on screen-shots alone . If we are being honest here I actually think your screen-shots are pretty grainy compared to mine [ even though I know that is not the actual projected image that is at fault ] . So let us not try to sway opinion by making comments related to screen-shots as if they have some significant merit [ they are for fun ... and that is all ;) ] . My pics with the NDx2 are darker simply because I was further away from the screen when I took them .
--- I can assure you the 4805 is more vibrant than the H30 and its real world brightness is every bit as bright (as a calibrated H30) with the NDx2 filter on [ consider the calibrated lumen's of the 4805 are 100+ that of the H30 ] . Then consider the 12-13ftl goal that is optimal for front projection , the 4805 is 24+ ftl out of the box [ this is too bright IMO and needs some reduction - at least until the lamp dims at 1000+ hours ] . Another consideration is then where will the H30 lamp be sitting at 1000+ hours when the lamp dims even further [ to the approx. 50% brightness which is common in the front projection market ] .
--- I am not knocking the H30 , it is a great PJ an throws about the smoothest Digital PJ image that I have ever seen but it seems that every time I turn around you are somehow knocking the 4805 to the tone of trying to benefit the H30 :( .

----------- Best Wishes All ,
--------------- Jason

Originally posted by guitarman
I sure hope Glen helps Scott out. I know the timings off but sometimes you have to make a pity judgment call (20hrs).

Here's a tip though, electronics liked to be used, they tend to hold up better with constant usage.

I hope something can be worked out when I reach him.

After waiting for so long for the stupid room, I'll definitely be using it when it comes back!

Todd
(mysteriously aka Scott) ;-)

Sorry about that Todd err Scott. :)

You might want to try the main line to see if he's in town. I just found out the Wing is in Taiwan for two weeks right now. Sometimes Glen err Scott goes at the same time.

Well my bulb has just gone. About 5 months old and just under 200 hours on it. I took the old one out and it seems to look normal (ie no damage) is that right?
I have also put in a new bulb but am unable to reset the bulb hours in the menu. The remote will not allow me to select it down to reset, only reminder. Hints anyone?

Maybe there's something in the service menu. But don't do a total reset, you'll mess up the colors.

Originally posted by guitarman


A Epson 10, no way/ no blacks/ serious SD, HT mag already went thru a thorough comparison on these two. Hands down winner H30, nice try. :)

Black levels are indeed a bit above the H30 but not that much and colors are much better, better warranty, cheaper projector and cheaper replacement lamps, less noise, can be used in brighter rooms, better build quality .

And I didnt think the SD was a problem, yes with the H30 its better but when viewing 16:9 films and you use less of the resolution its about the same .

ps: dont trust review magazines, see for yourself . I went to the demo thinking the H30 would be better because of those magazines and I was mistaken badly its just not worth the extra cost.

Originally posted by valkyrie
I would agree there's something fishy with the power, though with the previous units they DID buzz when I was at work (this is the first one to not buzz at work, or at home). I have tried everything short of having an electrician out to solve my power problem. Tried UPS, line conditioner, check grounds, checked voltage, even shut off every circuit breaker in the house, save the one with the projector. No luck. Oddly enough, the dimmers I have at the wall outlet have no effect on any of the H30's, either good or bad. I think I'll have to be content to let this one go down as a mystery. :)

I haven't been around here for a while (2 months?), been too busy with my crazy L.A. lifestyle, but I think some of ya still will remember that I had 2 H30's that buzzed also, so just a little update:

In the last 2 months I probably have only watched 3 DVD's and just recently turned over 100hrs on the bulb. Yup, had this last H30 for 4 months now and only 100 hrs on the projector! Just been too busy to sit down for the length of a movie.

Mine still buzzes, but only for about the first 30-60 minutes after startup, then it will go whisper quite. So, my routine is to try and turn on the H30 at least 30 mins before the movie starts.

I haven’t read any of the back pages yet, just these last 2 pages of the thread, but after what Valk has gone through with 5 H30's (and me going through 2 that buzz), I think I'm just going to stick it out with the H30 I have now and hope that maybe with some more hrs on it, the buzz might go away totally. Also, I don't want the C07 firmware either, as it still seems to change the offset, I do not want to change my mount! (my projector will hang too low with the C07 firmware).
Not to mention I don't want to spend any more hours calibrating from the OTB setting anymore (what a pain to do over and over again).

Besides the buzzing, my pixel uniformity is not that great either, but doesn't seem to be noticeable during movie watching.

So overall, after many hours of calibrating my image is pretty darn good and the H30 only buzzes for the first hour of warm up so I guess I'm just going to let it ride for a while.

I'll probably wait unit Optoma has a few more months of dealing with these issues under their belt and maybe by then they will allow the customer the choice of having the offset of the C05 firmware as an option. Then I might try to send the H30 back....if it still buzzes.

As long as my bulb doesn’t blow:rolleyes:

Fleaman

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
Nah , the SW dvd's are not that good ... look carefully [ certainly no SB 5th Element ] . They are the best that has ever been released , no doubt there [ better video than the LD's but the audio on the LD still sounded better to me ] .

--- Besides the fact that now you can really notice how fake everything looks :( .

--- The dang Hoth snowbeast that grabs Luke looks like the Bumble from the Rudolph Christmas clay-mation cartoon . - lol :D


----------------- Jason

I have both (superbit 5th element and SW's dvd's) and have to agree with Jason on this one, the Superbit 5th Element is still a reference DVD for me.

While the SW's does look great (than ever), they are not to me a reference DVD.

Yeah, it's hard to have that same excitement that I had when I stood in line to watch the 1st Star Wars movie, I was 11 years old at the time, perfect age to see it in the Theater!

Now it seems a little goofy.

The Superbit 5th Element is tough to beat PQ wise.

Fleaman

Originally posted by k995
Black levels are indeed a bit above the H30 but not that much and colors are much better, better warranty, cheaper projector and cheaper replacement lamps, less noise, can be used in brighter rooms, better build quality .

And I didnt think the SD was a problem, yes with the H30 its better but when viewing 16:9 films and you use less of the resolution its about the same .

ps: dont trust review magazines, see for yourself . I went to the demo thinking the H30 would be better because of those magazines and I was mistaken badly its just not worth the extra cost.


Colors are "much better"? - sounds like you saw a poorly setup H30. I'm not knocking the Epson - it's a great projector and I considered it for myself during my last upgrade. That said, I really doubt you'll find too many people claiming it has a better picture than the H30. Now reliability is another issue - Epson's scores a big plus there.

Here's another review:

http://www.***************.com/html/reviews/techreview.php?rev=45

"I really doubt you'll find too many people claiming it has a better picture than the H30"

Sums it up.

Originally posted by guitarman
Hey Mikey! someone just asked me if I still like the H30. I said did u see all my screenshots, it's a mother beautiful projector! Love it.


Yes, I'm still enjoying mine as well too. I wish I had more time to watch all the new DVDs I'm accumulating. Haven't got past the first SW disk yet.

I agree that SW are not reference, but based on the age of the movies, they did a terrific job remastering. There were some color issues at times, but overall very good. Audio quality was not so successful, with some noise floor issues, but still not bad.


Here's another review: http://www.***************.com/html/reviews/techreview.php?rev=45

Yeah, but who believes that guy? :D

I thought the Epson was a good value in an LCD projector for its price, but lacked the "pop" of the H30. It's overall presentation struck me a dull in comparison. However, if you prefer LCD, it's a good choice in its price range.

Oh boy the Star Wars DVD,s. Guess I'll hv to explain. I liked the quality of the job they did and to elate it I said look out Fifth Element because we all know it looks great. That's it.

Flea, I was told you can't choose a firmware and that you'll always get the latest version. There may not be any more firmwares. I'm just happy we got the major ones, full 800X600 4.3 and Letterbox support.

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
--- Oh now Tom , let us not start this debate again ... you should know as well as any experienced HT'er that you cannot base actual image on screen-shots alone .


I think Guitarman just likes saying "mother beautiful". :D

Alright, haven't been posting for a while... just hit 410 hours and turned on my PJ. -> buzz. Never before i've heard this. Also the buzzing seems to increase and decrease randomly.

Maybe somebody upstairs is using a crappy hairdryer or a doughmaker, since
after about 20 minutes the buzz was gone. :)

I've yet to dispatch this bugger to green bar maintenance... i'm also going to tell them to swap the colorwheel bearing and the power unit since the buzzing is most likely related to the power unit.

That should take care of most of the problems with this.

Guitarman: has optoma commented the buzzing yet? Fix available?

Haven't heard much about the buzzing lately. There were a half dozen or so users that had the buzz, don't know if they gave up or what. Guess you should handle it on a one to one basis. Greenbar for sure gets a new circuit board.

Originally posted by Quarterbrain
Alright, haven't been posting for a while... just hit 410 hours and turned on my PJ. -> buzz. Never before i've heard this. Also the buzzing seems to increase and decrease randomly.

I just recently came across this problem too. Started (or I just noticed) it a week or two after moving into my new house. Then after a large length of time it stopped, then started again, then stopped. It could be the house wiring though as my DJ CD Player (Pioneer CDJ-1000 if you're interested) in my DJing rig will cause a buzzing noise much like a ground loop when connected to my mixer. It may also be due to the doubling of dogs in the house and the new dog has longer hair. I noticed a blob or something hovering near the top of the projected image. So out came the air in a can. I blasted the inside to try to clean off the blob because I noticed only the blob shook on the screen everytime the floor fan was blowing in the direction of the PJ. Well the blob is gone and the "buzzing" has lessened. I'm thinking it just may be due to dog hair buildup in the PJ causing a bearing or some other moving part to vibrate due to an unbalanced load or a hair glog hitting a moving part. Time to open up what I can without voiding the warranty to see if I can clean it out properly.

No real complaints here. Still has the C05 firmware that came with it (bought last April) and at 1100 hours or so on the bulb. This thing is getting a major workout, even more so now that I put a Fusion III HD OTA card in my HTPC (Football in 720p is awesome!!!) and a BFG 6800 OC to enjoy Doom III in all it's glory on Ultra setting. Since I have moved into my new house a couple neighbors have been exposed to the PJ world and I'm proud to say I have dragged a few new recruits into this "hobby". Maybe it was the football in HD or the DVDs played through the HTPC (yup no more xbox DVD player for me) or the SW Battlefield in 480p or or or...... I even told them about the Infocus 4805 and the pros and cons between both. But once they saw mine they said that is all they wanted and needed.

:D

Any new info on the C09 firmware that will enable you to adjust the 16x9 offset? Still waiting for that before I ceiling mount it. Any other known updates included with that firmware?

New firmware for digital shift, I hope so. Wings in Taiwan right now, hope he see's this and works it out.

I'm Finally up and running with my H30 and Da-lite Model B CSR

Here's some pics:

Anothr Shot

Screen

Screen Retracted

Now that I've calmed down a bit, I thought I should post. Comcast came out yesterday to install HDTV on my H30.

Oh...my....God.

I'm watching the Eagles beat up the Bears in Hi-Def and I'm absolutely blown away! The picture on the H30 is just incredible. I'm probably sitting too close to the screen right now (the front sofa is about 10' away on an 8' screen), but image is still just crystal clear.

For those of you that love sports and have considered HD...it's a no-brainer.

Wow....

:)

(Must go back to drooling now, sorry...)

Originally posted by Scarpad
I'm Finally up and running with my H30 and Da-lite Model B CSR

Congrats Scarpad... good looking stuff.

Couple of questions-

If I remember correctly you had the ceiling height challenge. How high is the H30 from the floor?

That's great the way the Da-lite just disappears in a sea of black when retracted. Is that your center channel speaker above the RPTV and does it get covered up when you pull the Da-lite down?

Nice stuff man!

Cheers..

Good for you Valk... I'm so peeved at the pathetic offerings here for HD cable and non-existent OTA HD except for PBS :rolleyes: I could scream. I think I can get ESPN HD for like an additional $14 a month, arghhhh!!!


Enjoy it man! Are screen shots feasible?

Cheers!

The Projector is about 7 1/4 feet off the ground the picture on the screen is a bit lower than wher my RPTV's picture is but not by much. Yeah the screen is virtualy invisible in the room when retracted. Right now the center channel is covered its the only issue. It's not so bad thou and I've compensated at the receiver , I May eventually move it thou.

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Good for you Valk... I'm so peeved at the pathetic offerings here for HD cable and non-existent OTA HD except for PBS :rolleyes: I could scream. I think I can get ESPN HD for like an additional $14 a month, arghhhh!!!


Enjoy it man! Are screen shots feasible?

Cheers!

I got a couple of High Def shots up in the first post. One's the Ocean the others a football game. HD is brighter, cleaner, more colorful.
Sheesh I'm watching Four NFL games in HD every week.

Sheesh is right. :(

It will be three this weekend, somethings screwed up with ESPN's feed, it's just 480p.

hi just got the q50 i purchased on ebay. i hooked it up through the progressive scan out to the h30 and the image is squashed. what setting do i have to change in the h30? Both the dvd and the projector are in 16:9.

:confused:

Thanks =]

I got a Q50 to, You set it to 16.9, no matter what dvd you play 16.9 or 4.3.

C03 firmware didn't hv letterbox support, but C05 and C07 do. If you have the later and plan a non-anamorphic DVD like say Armageddon, choose the window aspect it will stretch it up.

hi guitarman thanks for the info, but i was asking setting i have to change in the projector to tell it that the signal from the dvd player is progressive and not interlace.

I have a anamorphic dvd in the dvd player and have the dvd player set to 16:9. The projector is also set to 16:9. The image comes out stretched left and right. I read somewhere that I have to also set the projector to progressive somewhere?

sorry if i make no sense =] thanks in advance

16.9 scaled aspect is correct for Anamorphic DVD's. Or 16.9native if you're using a 4.3 screen.

The stretch aspect you're seeing makes me still thing you're viewing a non-anamorphic DVD. Try another DVD, your Q50 absolutely s/b set at 16.9 and you're using the component outputs on the right side of the back panel.

Anyway a Q50 like my Pany's and Denon 1600 w/faroudja won't play NA-dvds expanded correctly, the display will have to do it. The C05 firmware and later has this added feature.

Which firmware do you have and what type of screen are you using 4.3 or 16.9?

You shouldn't be seeing any stretch with an anamorphic DVD. It doesn't matter to the H30 if you're outputting interlaced or progressive. There is no setting for progressive or interlaced on the H30. It automatically deinterlaces and/or scales the image as necessary.

For your viewing pleasure, the H30.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars4.jpg

What a honey!

Dear all


Does anyone try FL-W filter instead of FL-D?

What's a different ?

Thanks

Parst P.

Originally posted by guitarman
For your viewing pleasure, the H30.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars4.jpg

What a honey!


--- Come on now Tom , we all know that is the H77 ... Nice try though :D - hehe .

------- Jason

Hi Jason,
Close but no cigar.

Here's two similar shots done on the H77. You can see the differences.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars6.jpg


On the H30
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars4.jpg

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
--- Come on now Tom , we all know that is the H77 ... Nice try though :D - hehe .------- Jason
That's funny Jason, good one.. We know Tom wouldn't do a thing like that ;)

Are you getting ready for possibly dirty conditions out in your area? Keep those sensitive electronics under cover. Maybe Kras should plan a "St. Helens ash cleanup" special for all the projector owners in the area :)

Cheers!

Interesting how it's hard to see the resolution difference with DVD on the two machines. Of course I can scoot my chair up 4 or 5 feet closer. That's one of the advantages, plus I can stare all day at white areas in the video and just see smooth white.

Remedy for the H30 view 1.9 times back or so and enjoy one terrific DVD machine. I Tell you something you owners already know, the H30 will show amazing detail in dark scenes, fully opened up, all shadows totally visible. Top feature on the H30. Worth it's weight in gold.

Mr. Jooooollsson, calling Mr. Jolson.... What's going on with that Smart III thing man? :)

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Mr. Jooooollsson, calling Mr. Jolson.... What's going on with that Smart III thing man? :)

Just got the new meter. I may try to give it a run tonight - depends on how the Twinkies game goes and how much alcohol is consumed:D

-Mike

Alright! Please let us know more when you can. I assume you ended up with the 'generic dlp' version?

Hey Tom

For the H30, did u put FL-D filter on ?

I think it has greenish tone compared with H77


What do u think?

Regards

Parst P.

You mean the screenshots I just posted. The H30 is calibrated with colorfacts the H77 is about stock with a little fine tuning by eye.
Both look great to me, the H77 is more intense.

Had a problem with my H30 last night and its still not working. When I switch it on it keeps attempting to start up and then failing. After about five attempts it eventually gives up and starts the fan and the "Lamp" light turns on orange followed by it shutting down after about a minute. Have tried leaving it off overnight and trying again this morning but still the same problem. I can actually hear a "static" electricty sound every few seconds when it is trying to start up.
Spoke to Optoma and they think its something to do with the fan. Could it possibly be the bulb ? Anyone else had this problem ?

Originally posted by guitarman
16.9 scaled aspect is correct for Anamorphic DVD's. Or 16.9native if you're using a 4.3 screen.

The stretch aspect you're seeing makes me still thing you're viewing a non-anamorphic DVD. Try another DVD, your Q50 absolutely s/b set at 16.9 and you're using the component outputs on the right side of the back panel.

Anyway a Q50 like my Pany's and Denon 1600 w/faroudja won't play NA-dvds expanded correctly, the display will have to do it. The C05 firmware and later has this added feature.

Which firmware do you have and what type of screen are you using 4.3 or 16.9?

ya the movie i was watching, rounders was anamorphic but the aspect ratio was 2.35:1 (CinemaScope). I think the H30/Q50 were displaying the image properly but the DVD wasn't mastered correctly. The images looked a little streched. Or it could have been my eyes playing tricks on me since by my calculations, 2.35 only uses 75% of the 16:9 display. I am using 03 firmware, awaiting the shift feature.

Originally posted by GGB
Had a problem with my H30 last night and its still not working. When I switch it on it keeps attempting to start up and then failing. After about five attempts it eventually gives up and starts the fan and the "Lamp" light turns on orange followed by it shutting down after about a minute. Have tried leaving it off overnight and trying again this morning but still the same problem. I can actually hear a "static" electricty sound every few seconds when it is trying to start up.
Spoke to Optoma and they think its something to do with the fan. Could it possibly be the bulb ? Anyone else had this problem ?

Actually, I just started having the same problem. I, too, assumed it was the lamp. I have to put off getting a new lamp at the moment, but it sure would be nice if it were simply the fan.

Still, not sure how the fan would be at fault. It clearly sounds like the lamp isn't turning on.

Originally posted by demon4
ya the movie i was watching, rounders was anamorphic but the aspect ratio was 2.35:1 (CinemaScope). I think the H30/Q50 were displaying the image properly but the DVD wasn't mastered correctly. The images looked a little streched. Or it could have been my eyes playing tricks on me since by my calculations, 2.35 only uses 75% of the 16:9 display. I am using 03 firmware, awaiting the shift feature.

I have Rounders, it's non-Anamorphic. C03 doesn't have Letterbox support. When you finally send it in all will be fixed. In the mean time some players have letterbox support, most JVC's and the recent cheap Panasonic's.

Originally posted by Fabbas
Actually, I just started having the same problem. I, too, assumed it was the lamp. I have to put off getting a new lamp at the moment, but it sure would be nice if it were simply the fan.

Still, not sure how the fan would be at fault. It clearly sounds like the lamp isn't turning on.

All you can do for now is re-seat the bulb, unplug for a while. If things stay the same you'll hv to get an RMA and send it in. When they work on it you end up with the C07 firmware. 16.9 image will then be at the top of the 4.3 chip.

Originally posted by guitarman
I have Rounders, it's non-Anamorphic.

Depends on which version you have. The collectors edition that came out last month is anamorphic. It sure sounds like demon4's got the original, non-anamorphic DVD.

Originally posted by GGB
Had a problem with my H30 last night and its still not working. When I switch it on it keeps attempting to start up and then failing. After about five attempts it eventually gives up and starts the fan and the "Lamp" light turns on orange followed by it shutting down after about a minute.

That's what happened when my original bulb failed. Try Tom's suggestion about reseating the bulb, but if that doesn't work, you'll have to send it in.

Given some of the posts over the last month I think I'm gonna buy a new bulb and put my 780 hour current one on the shelf for when the new one dies. Perhaps those two will take me close to two years when an H77 is 1,900 bucks. :D

Thanks for the advice! I'll try reseating it tonight.

I have kind of a stupid question though: what's an RMA?

Approval from Optoma for repair return.

Yeah tried re-seating it twice and leaving it for hours but to no avail. Think I have had it for around four months so if the bulbs gone already I will not be very happy. Optoma are picking it up tomorrow.

Ouch, It's a drag these machines are so dependant on a light bulb, plus they're expensive. The 90day warranty the light bulb company gives out, well they must know something here. That's the most duration they want to give out and that's with all the companies. Pretty cheezy I think, think they should go for at least 1yr.
Keep your fingers crossed.

Had a problem with my H30 last night and its still not working. When I switch it on it keeps attempting to start up and then failing. After about five attempts it eventually gives up and starts the fan and the "Lamp" light turns on orange followed by it shutting down after about a minute. Have tried leaving it off overnight and trying again this morning but still the same problem. I can actually hear a "static" electricty sound every few seconds when it is trying to start up.
Spoke to Optoma and they think its something to do with the fan. Could it possibly be the bulb ? Anyone else had this problem ?

I had the exact same problem with projector #3. Had to send it back and have it repaired (actually, they sent a new projector).

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Mr. Jooooollsson, calling Mr. Jolson.... What's going on with that Smart III thing man? :)

Well, for what it's worth, here's where SMART says I stand (after about 4 tweaking runs- which take a while):

Color Temp: pretty flat at 6500(+/- about 2-300), except at low IRE (0,10 are warmer)
Gamma: 2.1
Lumens: 222 for 12.3 ft L at screen
Contrast: 1761 (red=1436, green=1915, blue=1862)

Picture looks good and greyscale in Avia looks nice and consistent so that's good. The contrast number seems awfully high compared to what most have stated, so I'm not sure how accurate that is.

I'll probably send the spreadsheet to Steve Smallcombe to have him see if it all makes sense.


-Mike

Originally posted by guitarman
For your viewing pleasure, the H30.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars3.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars4.jpg

What a honey!


Yeah Star Wars Looked Great on the H30 I hopefully will be watching Empire this weekend. I also Watched Aladdin a couple of nights ago and it was pretty damn nice, I took some screen picks and I'll try to post them later. My camera is pretty lousey at taking screen pics thou.

Originally posted by guitarman
Interesting how it's hard to see the resolution difference with DVD on the two machines. Of course I can scoot my chair up 4 or 5 feet closer. That's one of the advantages, plus I can stare all day at white areas in the video and just see smooth white.

Remedy for the H30 view 1.9 times back or so and enjoy one terrific DVD machine. I Tell you something you owners already know, the H30 will show amazing detail in dark scenes, fully opened up, all shadows totally visible. Top feature on the H30. Worth it's weight in gold.

So the main diff between the two machines tom is lack of Screen door effect close. I have to admit the H30 looks better in those pics. I've only watched a few flicks on the H30 so far but it's kjust amazing the heck out of me for a 800x600 projector

That's cool stuff Mike... thanks fo the info. Just out of curiousity- did you end up with way different advanced RGB settings than what you had achieved with AVIA? Did you need to do any service menu adjustments or just in the user menus?

Thanks for the report! Cheers...

Originally posted by Scarpad
I've only watched a few flicks on the H30 so far but it's kjust amazing the heck out of me for a 800x600 projector
Good point Scarpad- I would love to spend some time with a higher res unit (like Tom gets to :)) just to really scrutinize the detail. My experience is (very) limited to just seeing a Sony HS20 at two local shops here. I thought it was screen door city and somewhat muted colors compared to what I get to enjoy. The qualifier there would be they were showing an image probably 50% larger than mine.

Well after all my bellyaching about HD options around here- CableOne just added ESPN HD and PBS HD to their offering for only $5 more a month than what I'm paying now. I'll be watching my Vikes in HD next Sunday night. Yeah baby!!!

Cheers!

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Given some of the posts over the last month I think I'm gonna buy a new bulb and put my 780 hour current one on the shelf for when the new one dies. Perhaps those two will take me close to two years when an H77 is 1,900 bucks. :D

I considered buying an extra bulb but my concern is having a plus 300 item sitting on the shelf for x amount of time before I use it. Then I plug it in and find it dead. At least if you buy it when you need it you have a limited amount of time warrantee on it. I'd be interested in seeing those who had
bulb failured post the Hour it went out on. Since I got the PJ mounted I've left it in standbye mode with the green flashing light. I figure this might be the best state to leave it in. I have'nt had a problem so far and I hope I don't

Originally posted by gottahavapj
That's cool stuff Mike... thanks fo the info. Just out of curiousity- did you end up with way different advanced RGB settings than what you had achieved with AVIA? Did you need to do any service menu adjustments or just in the user menus?

Thanks for the report! Cheers...

What I found was that small changes make a big difference in the result (even if not to the eye), so I would say they aren't too much different. My new contrast settings are a bit higher. The SMART system has you max it out, take the max reading, then back off until it first drops. Therefore you know you're getting the maximum output for each color at IRE 100. (same for brightness - back off completely, then raise until it starts to read a change). I did all of the settings in the user menu (advanced RGB) - didn't touch the service menu.

Originally posted by Scarpad
I considered buying an extra bulb but my concern is having a plus 300 item sitting on the shelf for x amount of time before I use it. Then I plug it in and find it dead. At least if you buy it when you need it you have a limited amount of time warrantee on it. I'd be interested in seeing those who had
bulb failured post the Hour it went out on. Since I got the PJ mounted I've left it in standbye mode with the green flashing light. I figure this might be the best state to leave it in. I have'nt had a problem so far and I hope I don't
Ya- as the bulb warranty is 90 days I would never buy one before that. I'm at ~160 days now so the warranty for my original bulb is long past. What I would do is buy a new one now, install it and place my 730 hour bulb on the shelf. Bulbs purportedly lose 1/2 their brightness by the time they reach their rated life. I would now be going back to a full brightness bulb and use that up completely and then re-install the 730 hour one and use that up. It would be interesting at this point to jump back to a new bulb and see what you get. I think I can detect a slight dimming in the bulb from new but it's hard to tell sometimes when things slowly deteriorate over an extended period of time.

But no way would I buy a $350 bulb and let it sit on my shelf till long after the warranty ran out. That would be a pretty primordial scream if I opened that box after a year and the bulb was dead out of the box.

Cheers!

Originally posted by mjolson
What I found was that small changes make a big difference in the result (even if not to the eye), so I would say they aren't too much different. My new contrast settings are a bit higher. The SMART system has you max it out, take the max reading, then back off until it first drops. Therefore you know you're getting the maximum output for each color at IRE 100. (same for brightness - back off completely, then raise until it starts to read a change). I did all of the settings in the user menu (advanced RGB) - didn't touch the service menu.
Interesting stuff Mike... thanks for that!

Does that color meter sit out in the light beam between the PJ and screen to get its readings or does it measure light reflected from the screen?

Cheers!

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Interesting stuff Mike... thanks for that!

Does that color meter sit out in the light beam between the PJ and screen to get its readings or does it measure light reflected from the screen?

Cheers!

The sensor is on a 5' extension cord from the meter, so it mounts in the light beam (I have it about 2' away). You position it based on the blue reading at 0 IRE. The only measurement taken at the screen (still towards the light beam) is lumens.

mj, sounds good, users that have colorfacts and Smart say Smart is excellent and accurate for testing contrast ratio, even better then CF.

Sounds interesting to use, right small adjustments with the RGB's send things traveling don't they. This is why it takes some time. The zero & 10 IRE are alway tuff, nothing different here.

What are some of the key differences you notice now in the picture?

Originally posted by guitarman

What are some of the key differences you notice now in the picture?

I finished up the tweaking late last night, so I didn't get a chance to really look at the PQ other than a quick glance at the grey steps in AVIA. The pending release of Theatertek 2.0 this weekend means I probably get to re-calibrate (new decoders), but once that's done, It's time to do some viewing!

Originally posted by mjolson
The sensor is on a 5' extension cord from the meter, so it mounts in the light beam (I have it about 2' away). You position it based on the blue reading at 0 IRE. The only measurement taken at the screen (still towards the light beam) is lumens.
Sounds cool... I was always curious about if it took your screen into account. So if you changed from a matte white DIY screen to a gray or HP or something- none of the calibration units really help you with re-establishing a new baseline. You just get what that screens characteristics are... interesting.... Thanks for your efforts and report!

Tom- post #7000 is quickly approaching which by all rights should be yours. :)

Cheers!

Originally posted by guitarman
Hi Jason,
Close but no cigar.

Here's two similar shots done on the H77. You can see the differences.

http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars1.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/starwars6.jpg


On the H30
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars2.jpg
http://www.cigarbest.com/sales/h30starwars4.jpg


I actually think the H30 looks better (the screenshots do anyway).

I like the H30 shots better also. The H30 is just the right amount of brightness and that's in econo mode. Love the bright power the H30 has.

What people are paying up for on the H77 is the lack of screen door, super quiet and 16.9 panal, add in HDTV hi res quality also.

But look at how great the H30 does for DVD, that's my boy! :)

I had been tweaking the H30 for a month since I bought it trying to get myself to fully appreciate it. Tried DIY screen's to increase gain and bought a zenith 318 experimenting with upconversion. Finnaly I made my way to a used Denon DVD-1600 purchased on e-bay. I love this DVD player. It has made all the difference in my appreciation of the H30. I'm pretty content now having this PJ paired with the older model Denon. I'm no longer wasting my time striving to find the perfect screen or second guessing my choice in a PJ. For me the right DVD player has made all the difference.

Lucky buy on the 1600. Seems at one time or another I've had one of these Secrets recommend players. I use a Panasonic XP30 now but did have the 1600, RP82, XP50 at one time. They all use the same menu system which I'm real fond of.

Take a look at the Mosquito and noise reduction stuff in the last part of the toggle picture menu's.

I don't see anything like what you have mentioned in the menu system on the 1600. Maybe I have an older firmware that doesnt show what you've mentioned. I have notices some very slight general picture noise from the 1600 but not enough to be a problem. Looks like the firmware version on my 1600 is 043 and I have seen around the net that the latest is 068. I will have to see if it is downloadable somewhere.

I've seen other references to econo mode on the H30, but don't know where to find it on the menu. Is there a menu choice for econo mode?