this is probably the fastest thread (i've seen) that has gotten up to this many posts and views.

Originally posted by mantle
Might I suggest a little summary on the first page? Ie. firmware fixes and whatnot.

Good idea. Maybe we can impose on Tom to edit his original post to include some of the latest info.

Hey- I've been doing some browsing of the 4805 thread in this forum even though that is not the projector for me. I've noticed Tom, Jason and Mike posting in there. Is it just me or are there kind of a lot of smart a$$es in that thread? Tom- perhaps you should just stay here where you are sincerely appreciated :)

Cheers!

Originally posted by gottahavapj
Hey- I've been doing some browsing of the 4805 thread in this forum even though that is not the projector for me. I've noticed Tom, Jason and Mike posting in there. Is it just me or are there kind of a lot of smart a$$es in that thread? Tom- perhaps you should just stay here where you are sincerely appreciated :)

Cheers!

Well actually there are people from this thread trying to put down the 4805 like saying how much it's going to cost etc. just because they don't want to feel bad about their H30 purchase. Don't get me wrong, I've ordered a H30, but the guy who started this thread is trying his hardest to put down the 4805, even coming up with guesses on the price when nothing has been announced. And by the way the 4805 is using the newest chip technology, I think it's called dark chip 2, so the contrast will probably be better than the H30, maybe not by much.

"" the guy who started this thread is trying his hardest to put down the 4805"

Get outta here! I just posted about the price because some think they'll pick it up for $1200. I just think it's too much of an upgrade over the X1 to expect to get it for a cheap price.

Am I worried about my budget purchase, No

I'm happy the H30 performs the way it does. Dual mode, I want a 4.3 capable machine.

"could be the longer cable too I guess [ now using a 50' decent quality VGA - nothing High-End ]"

Jason, must be the cable that changed the signal. I think I posted it earlier but at Cable retailer they have a readout that suggests any longer the 15' on a breakout component to VGA cable and you might see picture quality loss. A VGA cable should fall in the same category (very thin wires).

Here's their story.
If you need a component video cable to connect an HD15 (also frequently referred to as a "VGA") plug to three RCA or BNC plugs--to run component video into a projector, for example--we have a couple of options for you. Because HD15 plugs are so small, and the pins are so closely spaced, they will fit only small-sized cables; there are two possible answers to this problem. Either (1) one can use a very small cable which fits the 15-pin plug, but which unavoidably will lead to greater signal loss per foot than a full-sized cable, or (2) one can use full-sized cable right up to the device which takes the 15-pin plug, and then use a VGA "breakout" adapter to run the last foot of the distance in small cable, hooking the full-sized coax to the mini-coax with 75 ohm BNC connectors. Which of these is the better option will depend on run length; for a very short run, it's obviously better to have fewer connections, and go with the mini-coax. For a very long run, it's obviously better to use low-loss cable together with a breakout. In the middle--well, it's hard to say where the breakpoint occurs. Our somewhat arbitrary rule of thumb is that we suggest using a breakout for anything fifteen feet or longer.

Tom ( thanks for the article) ,
--- Yeah I am pretty confident it is the cable and I plan on getting a 15' to 25' VGA cable very soon as I can now see some very slight ghosting if I get close enough to the screen [ this was not there with the 12' cable I was using previously and of course 12' is just a few feet too short with the Ceiling mounted H30 :( ] .
--- I considered running RGBHV over RG6 coax all the way to the PJ but what a huge jumble of cables that would be [ how would I hide it - I would have to use 3 rows of the large white cable tracks ] . Of course that would be a much cheaper option than the $180.00 16' Bettercables ;) .
_____________________

--- The 4805 thread turned a bit ugly but this is very normal discussions for almost any yet to be released PJ with high expectations .
_____________________

-------- Jason

"The 4805 thread turned a bit ugly but this is very normal discussions for almost any yet to be released PJ with high expectations ."

I've hardly said anything over there other than I like 4.3 and send me your 4.3dvds :).

The price guessing is just to see if I can guess right. I figure they have to price it a little higher than the $1400 for the Optoma, so $1599 or if they think they need it $1699.

Allot of what looks nasty is just technical info. Darin my buddy is a stickler for tech info. wiith no ill intentions.

gottahavapj ,

--- Yeah it is the 6" model .

--- I could do that but since there is really nothing custom about it I think people would just take the idea and buy the mount direct for cheaper ;) . I really like how small the mount is , doesn't look like a big clumsy thing hanging off the ceiling . It takes a bit of work to get it set-up properly since tightening the mount can cause it to move slightly [ you have to hold it firmly as you tighten ] . The cool thing is you can get it most of the way tight and then just align your PJ and it stays where you put it . The other cool factor is that once a proper length safety cable is connected there is no way that the PJ can come lose from the single 1/4-20 mount as the PJ would literally have to spin several times all the way around [ the short safety cable that I made will not even allow it to spin once ;) ] .
--- Oh and I used 100 lb. anchors in the ceiling [ overkill I know ;) ] .

--- All-in-All I would say I am very happy with the mount and the price is just an added bonus :) .

------------ Jason

Honestly, I can't recall all the ins and outs of the firmware discussion and it's too long a thread to re-read. Do I recall correctly that the next firmware will make this into a de facto 4:3 projector? Meaning, you can use the full 800x600 and project on a 4:3 screen or set it 800x450 mode and throw the same 16:9 picture it was originally set up for.

Yes, exactly right, they enabled that 4.3 function 800X600 with all input signals, dvd,s-video, composite. Also the projector will still funtion it's original way too by allowing a masked 16.9 with 4.3 in that frame with bars on the sides.

Originally posted by guitarman
"" the guy who started this thread is trying his hardest to put down the 4805"

Get outta here! I just posted about the price because some think they'll pick it up for $1200. I just think it's too much of an upgrade over the X1 to expect to get it for a cheap price.

Am I worried about my budget purchase, No

I'm happy the H30 performs the way it does. Dual mode, I want a 4.3 capable machine.

Jinkies! I certainly didn't mean to start a conflict over here as well. Wow!

I will actually be surprised if the 4805 does not outperform the H30 when it hits the streets. Since it is a newer chipset- I think it should although there is more to pj performance than just the chipset. I feel that for my needs over the next few years that a 4:3 pj is the better choice for me. I will not sit here 3 months from now with my H30 and regret it even if the 4805 is twice the machine the H30 is. I don't care. Make your educated decision (which you guys provided most of the education for), make your purchase and enjoy it. Simple- see?

"newest chip technology, I think it's called dark chip 2, so the contrast will probably be better than the H30, maybe not by much."

So you're clear the Darkchip2 is the DDR-chip (Double Date Rate 12degree mirrors). Same chip allot of the new machines are using H30 included.

Actually I didn't follow the 4805 closely and was worried about Infocuses past formula which is very bright lumens, like the 7200 & 5700.

This brightness made for grayer type blacks. Looks like the 4805 will be different.

Brightness (Lumens) : 750 ANSI" Projector central specs:

I know it has a low lamp mode so lumens should go down to maybe 600, which would make for good blacks.

jason - there is an interesting thread in the over $3500 forum about cheaper and better cabling ideas. subject is "RGBHV over shielded Cat 5 success!"
-matt

kuvasz friend ,
--- Those guys are way behind the times ;) . I was building VGA cables with CAT 5e 2 years ago - hehe . It does work very well but you still get some slight ghosting since the cable is not true 75 Ohm .
---- Thanks for the heads-up though :) .
-------- Jason

Jason, I've got some observations and questions. I checked out your new UT2004 screen-shots and was just wondering if they were taken without FSAA or if my mind were playing tricks on me, there's definitely some jaggies in that second shot though. Just thought it was odd.

BTW, have you tried FarCry yet? Looks amazing on my 17", can't wait to see it on the H30 :D (need wireless mouse/keyboard first)

Oh, and do you (or anyone else for that matter) know of a tweak to somehow reduce the dithering during pans? I guess there's not much to do about it, but it's the thing that annoys me the most currently :mad:

guitarman,

I think the promised RGBRGB color wheel on the InFocus 4805 goes a long way toward alleviating that particular concern. Not a guarantee, of course, but it's likely the new projector will be very well suited to home theater. I do agree with your earlier point that there's likely to be a subantial street price difference between the H30 and the 4805 (certainly more than 100 bucks or whatever someone suggested).

hey guys

i just went and got an X1 today that i will return when the h30 comes in. Now that I have seen the X1 but not the h30 can someone tell me what the h30 does better. The x1 looks great! how much better could the h30 look?

MrJones ,

-- Yep those shots are with no AA however what you are seeing is much more evident in the screen-shot than what it is while playing [ the camera picks it up better than the human eye can ] . I will try and take some shots with it on and post those instead .
-- Been playn' FarCry for a while and it is a very fun game [ just very power hungry with all settings at max ] . I had a screen-shot of it up until last night when I posted some new ones .
--- I don't have any dithering here , that was one of the first things I checked [ used the LOTR mountain panning scene ] .
________________

torontomapleleaf ,

--- Well how about HUGE , better in all aspects I would say . The only thing that I would say the X1 has that is slightly better is the DCDi [ vs. the Pixelworks scaler ] .
________________

-------------- Jason

Tom (or Possibly Jason...)

Tom I know you have had some experience with anamorphic lenses.

How would you compare the Prismsonic V200 to the Panamorph U100?

and have you tried either with the H30?

tom as for the upgrade... I am amazed you are shipping it in.. I thought you would just jump in the car and run it over... what would that take... 15 minutes?

Steve

Originally posted by MikeSRC
Use the black bars, not the white bars for setting contrast. The "white bars" are for testing white clipping level of LCD projectors.

Hi Mike,

sorry for the late response to this but I am still a bit confused here. Does this mean that one uses the same pattern on AVIA for as well setting contrast as setting brigthness levels?

Regards,

Ronald

Originally posted by guitarman
For digital projectors use the all black pattern with gray moving bars for brightness first then use the all white pattern with black moving bars for contrast.


Hi Guitarman,

About setting the contrast level with AVIA, I tried very hard to find the "all white pattern with black moving bars" but I could not find it.

In the "black and white level" menu I do see "needle pulses" patterns , all black, half gray and half white but not all white with black bars.

Can you please help me out here cause I am still trying to set contrast level to the rigth level on my precious H30 :)

Regards,

Ronald

Originally posted by guitarman
There's some very effective gammas also, 1 or 2 is best - just according to what you like. I've been using gamma 1 now because it's makes the blacks unreal. Some may like things a Little lighter though and use gamma 2.


Hi Guitarman,

According to the AVIA gamma pattern in my opinion gamma 1 is already on the low end , increasing gamma value makes this worse. I could be interpreting the gamma pattern wrongly of course.

Anyway I agree with you that gamma 1 or 2 is acceptable en higer makes the picture look washed out. I found that gamma 1 makes the picture look a lot more 3D. Therefore I choose for gamma setting1 for now :)

Best regards,

Ronald

Thanks Jason- i won't even waste my time on that thread (your word has confidence here) but in the stage i am at (studs on wall, ceiling open) my pc has always been tweaked for xtreme gaming, plan on using htpc, i also was planning on using tosh prog scan dvd(component)(or should i stick with pc player-i have onboard 5.1 asus mb sound only on mb, what do you think of soundblaster 5.1(althyough i don't think it does wmhd)?, old pioneer laserdisk s-vid, possibly cable or sat HD ( to watch Eagles kick a*!)to proj thru ceiling mount to cut out custom aud/vidin wall no more than fifteen feet from source. Can you or anyone give any recommendations for minimal wiring and top pq from pj to multiple sources within 15 feet away before i drywall and finish walls? This time constructing is also stalling to compare the if 4805 with the h30. thanks for the input- my experiences will be shared- Matt

tom as for the upgrade... I am amazed you are shipping it in.. I thought you would just jump in the car and run it over... what would that take... 15 minutes?


the office's only work on orders, they need 24 hours to work with it. Also you need a RMA number before you drop off the machine to the office's.

it is also the same down here in toronto .cheers

This is my first post. This forum is awesome.

I have just begun considering an upgrade to my home theater. The theater is in a basement. I have about 15 feet from the area where the projector could be set up to the wall. We typically use the area for evening TV and for DVD's. I was considering a RPTV such as a 60 inch Hitachi Ultravision($3400). But looking at this thread, it appears a front projection may be a better way to go.

Besides the $1400 I would need for the projector, what other costs should I anticipate? Keep in mind that I will be using Time Warner Cable (currently standard cable, but upgrading to digital). I have a decent Yamaha home theater. I have a Toshiba DVD and VCR. I will need some type of HDTV tuner(?cost), wiring, mount, screen, etc. Any ideas on total cost? Thanks for your help.

Originally posted by tingtong5
Hi Mike,

sorry for the late response to this but I am still a bit confused here. Does this mean that one uses the same pattern on AVIA for as well setting contrast as setting brigthness levels?

Regards,

Ronald

I apologize Ronald. I read your original post too fast and thought you were asking about black level (brightness). Someone correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I believe Guy Kuo recommends setting your white level (contrast) to just below the point at which the rightmost (brighter) white bar becomes white in the Needle Pulses + Log Steps pattern. This might also be affected by your white peaking setting.

tingtong5
As soon as Avia fires up hit the menu button on your remote. Go to the Advanced Avia menu, in there shoot over to the "Video Tests Patterns". Now open up "Gray Scale & Levels" then "Black and White Levels"

Use at the top "Needles Pulse" and "Black Bars"

These are the patterns you want to use for digital displays (the steps and half gray patterns are for CRT's) and basically you want the light bar to disappear and then just re-appear when clicking back.

The option I got from Guy is you could also have in just the contrast/Needles Pulse pattern - the lighter bar being half the brightness of the darker one. Sometimes I find it hard to spot the exact place where half the darkness is so I'll just use the disappear rule like the disc states.

I am able to get the blacks and whites at the exact spot they should though I had some problems with different DVD players and interlaced vs progressive. Like the Denon 1600 could calibrate correct in either Int/prog. But with the Pany RV32 interlaced player I couldn't get proper black/whites, with the JVC which I now use I can get correct B/W but only in progressive.

Let me know how it works out?

"it appears a front projection may be a better way to go"

You bet it is, my RPTV is a 65" small view back up now. Not going DIY a screen is your biggest expense, about $400 for a good fixed, or $250 for a high power pull down. Allot go DIY, make a frame and attach blackout material. Long component wires can be about $70 and up, you can also get a cheap wire from ebay, I got a 50' one that works for $19. Lots of options but the screen, mount, wires won't be too expensive.

Hi Guiterman and Mike,

Thanx for your responses!
However, this brings me back to my original question.

The problem is, with the needle pulses pattern the white bars NEVER disappear, also not with contrast set to max, not even close, they are still both very well visible.

Or should I look at these white bars in the upper (black) half of the screen and make them disappear there?

This really puzzles me, I am already 2 weeks tryoing to set contrast to the rigth level :P

Best regards,

Ronald

You use the lower part of that pattern for contrast. Try white peak at zero, sounds funny but just a minute ago when I checked I had no white moving bars, I had moved the white peak to zero, moving WP back to 6 made the bars re-appear. Must hv calibration whith white peak before.

If your DVD has a lighter/darker feature and you're using component set it to the darker, if S-vdeo set it to the lighter. If all fails just try Guys recomendation and set the conrast to where the lighter bars is half the brightness of the darker one.

Ronald I just thought of a fix. Go into the service menu, there's a picture contrast adjustment that can be made. Write down your original numbers first. Give it a try bring up the value a good percentage.

Re the anamorphic lens. I can't wait until the DIY lens posted earlier is finished. The lenses are too expensive to invest in for a $1,000 projector. I did try the NEC one and it makes the pixels allot smaller with more resolution. Brightness also got high which I didn't like with the HT1000.

Panamorphs are the best but the other model by NEC which was considered inferior to the V200, didn't look too bad to me.

Originally posted by guitarman
Ronald I just thought of a fix. Go into the service menu, there's a picture contrast adjustment that can be made. Write down your original numbers first. Give it a try bring up the value a good percentage.

Thanx for the hint! However, I am not able to bring up the service menu :(
Must be a different procedure on the european model I guess.

Regards,

Ronald

Originally posted by guitarman
You use the lower part of that pattern for contrast. Try white peak at zero, sounds funny but just a minute ago when I checked I had no white moving bars, I had moved the white peak to zero, moving WP back to 6 made the bars re-appear. Must hv calibration whith white peak before.

If your DVD has a lighter/darker feature and you're using component set it to the darker, if S-vdeo set it to the lighter. If all fails just try Guys recomendation and set the conrast to where the lighter bars is half the brightness of the darker one.

Ok I will play around with white peak. Till now I left it on the default (which is 6).

I am using RGB scart by the way. I'll try to set the dvd player to darker (I can indeed change this on my player).

Regards,

Ronald

hey

i just got an HD box so i can set it up when the h30.
was this a good idea? will HD look good from the h30

thanks for all the help guys

cheers

what hd box did you get rogers and to be honest the pic looks good with my bev. satilite but i use cinema for dvd's and i use user 1 for my sat. and i have different setting for each

hey joe

are you going to that projector shoot out next month?

i would say 80% yes ;) why?

joe

just wondering if you've been before and if its worth the drive

it's nice you meet a lot good people and you might just find what you are looking for as in pj's, screens, ect..... .well i have to see who will be coming up with me ,because the more the better . :)

Has anyone seen the Ezpro 732 at best buy. It looks just like the H30 extrenally, I wonder what the difference is.

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
___________________

--- Just buy a long VGA breakout cable for use with the HK and avoid the adapter .
___________________
------ Jason [/B]

Thanks for the info, pimp. I've never heard of a VGA breakout cable (I never knew it existed until you mentioned it). I saw VGA to Component Cables on "Pacific Cable Website" but it specifically said "Not compatible with Y-Pb-Pr", so i assumed all cable manufacturers built their cables the same way. Also they're not classified as a "breakout cable".



Originally posted by HiHoStevo
___________________
Mike,

How many component inputs does the 7300 have?

Have you looked at the Denon 3805?
Also does video transcoding from composite and Svideo out to component line (only one line to run to the projector)... and it has three component inputs... most all of the receivers I have found in this price range only have two component inputs.

___________________
------ Steve [/B]

Steve, actually the AVR 7300 does have 3 component inputs and I have considered Denon but this new HK model has the Faroudja Processing which is the biggest selling point to me. In addition it aslo does the video transcoding from composite and s-video to component. For more information on the AVR you can go to the Harman Kardon website and go into "news".

Mike

"tom as for the upgrade... I am amazed you are shipping it in.. I thought you would just jump in the car and run it over... what would that take... 15 minutes?"

You woke me up, I have tomorrow off and I'll start out early, talk to Wing, maybe get a tour. They must have extra white coats and masks :)

You woke me up, I have tomorrow off and I'll start out early, talk to Wing, maybe get a tour. They must have extra white coats and masks



lucky tom usually no one is allowed but i guess you are getting the royal treatment :)

I didn't ask yet but early on Wing did say why not come on down and he could show me some of the tricks for maximizing contrast/blacks etc.

I suppose I could just show up on the door step with PJ in hand.

Can't find specs on the EZpro 732...

They say its supposed to retail for 999$! My guess is they put in a cheaper scaler/deinterlacer, and maybe put in a presentation wheel?

Would be nice to see how much worse it will be for HT vs the H30. Does anyone see a marketing scheme a la Infocus X1/4800?

I tried the ezpro 737. Well very unimpressive to say the least. I know its not the same model, but it was so bad for hometheatre that I would never consider any ezpro for hometheatre.

This new model has a 2000:1 contrast ratio though just like the H30, it must have the RGBW wheel though because of the 1400 lumens brightness. That's not possible otherwise. But still, if the price was good enough, it might be a nice alternative.

dang so many pages to go through, are there lot of problems with this projector? or just too many people love it? can we do some kind of cliffnotes or summary on the initial post so people just getting into this can get an easy head start? reviews/problems/how to tune it/upgrades would be extremely helpful.

marco t where did you buy the prisms from? and what are they filled with (I heard terpentine oil in one and other distilled water for those diy lenses). If there is a place that already gives you the prisms it would make things easier only need to just adjust them and put them in a casing that holds them both at the right angle.

Sorry if I missed this elsewhere (Monster thread :)) but what was the eventual outcome of the 16:9 Optoma mask - i.e is it shipping, whats's the cost etc, etc.
Thanks
:)

Originally posted by guitarman
If your DVD has a lighter/darker feature and you're using component set it to the darker, if S-vdeo set it to the lighter. If all fails just try Guys recomendation and set the conrast to where the lighter bars is half the brightness of the darker one.

Hi Guitarman,

I am using scart RGB and my DVD player is a philips DVD-737 (plays divx/xvid as well). I can manually set contrast, brightness on the player. Whatever setting I choose I do get either never white bars (also with low contrast on H30) or always white bars that are not dissappering when raising contrast. I guess this is due to my dvd player.

So I still was not able to set contrast on the H30 to the rigth level using AVIA needle pulses pattern. I was not planning on buying another dvd player cause the picture looks great (12 bits video and 4 times oversampling) and I like the divx capability as well.

When I hook up the player to a normal TV I do not have these setup problems. Maybe I should use another player to calibrate and then hookup my own player again? Are the differences between players (concerning contrast level) big?

Does anyone know how to enter servicemenu on the european version of H30?

Regards,

Ronald

I got a question.. Does all VGA input make full use of the chip 4:3?
I am interested in buying the european version, and just use SCART-VGA which comes with this PJ. Do i get full 4:3 or just the 16:9 on the bottom?
Ill set my marantz dv4200 player to panscan or letterbox and not 16:9...
Oh and another quistion: Does SCART-VGA use the deinterlacer chip? My dvd player hasn't got a progressive out...

Greetz
Lars

Originally posted by goten2000
dang so many pages to go through, are there lot of problems with this projector? or just too many people love it? can we do some kind of cliffnotes or summary on the initial post so people just getting into this can get an easy head start? reviews/problems/how to tune it/upgrades would be extremely helpful.

Goten2000-

I wouldn't say that there are problems with the projector. I think it could be better described as a new projector that is somewhat of a work in progress. The minor issue with a firmware update will be solved with the new units that will ship. Distributors/resellers that have it in stock now will not have ones with the new firmware and those may need to be sent to Optoma for the update. I say may as the need for a firmware update varies from person to person. Someone using an HTPC for their only input source may not see the need to update since they can manipulate the image dimensions there.

The synopsis? Whew! I don't know that the good folk who started this forum have that much time on their hands. I have stopped just short of volunteering to do it just to thank those who have worked tirelessly on populating the thread. I don't have that much time either. :p

Ok I think i'm going to cry..
I have had the h30 about a week and now this morning I go to turn it on and nothing but orange light on the lamp.
I have treated this thing with kid gloves and am shocked that it packed it in in a week.
No pop, bulb looks good and I reseated it and same result.
Anyone know about rma from canada?
I'm stunned is there anything I can try besides setting bulb before I ship it back? What's the little k hole on back?

Rocker 999,

After one month of use, we had the same problem with the H30, went to turn it on, got whir whir whir and nothing but the orange light. We got an RMA and sent it back and it was replaced with a brand new unit, Optoma's policy is if anything fails within the first 30 days the unit is replaced with a brand new unit. We have been so overjoyed with the quality of picture on this projector that we are willing to undergo a little inconvenience to work out the bugs. Contact Optoma for an RMA and they get right on it. Good Luck.

Originally posted by simong
Sorry if I missed this elsewhere (Monster thread :)) but what was the eventual outcome of the 16:9 Optoma mask - i.e is it shipping, whats's the cost etc, etc.
Thanks
:)

As of last Thursday, they were still testing prototypes of the mask, so it will be awhile yet before it's available for purchase.

I have had the h30 about a week and now this morning I go to turn it on and nothing but orange light on the lamp.

Unfortunately, that's the same problem I had. When the lamp indicator turns orange, the lamp has failed. The RMA policy for U.S. and Canadian customers (bottom of the page) is outlined here (http://www.optomahometheater.com/content/rma.asp).

I have had the h30 about a week and now this morning I go to turn it on and nothing but orange light on the lamp.



when you turn on the pj the lite turns orange anyway :confused: ,unless you guys are talking the 2 little lites turn orange then there is a problem ,so after shut off the light turns green (flashing ) when off :confused:

The "Lamp" indicator light turns green when you power up the projector, but when the lamp's out, it just turns orange and stays that way. Nothing else happens.

I called rma at optoma. They say they don't have any units in stock to replace mine with and he sounded unsure about the firmware...
I am shipping it out today.
Man this REALLY SUCKS....

The "Lamp" indicator light turns green when you power up the projector, but when the lamp's out, it just turns orange and stays that way. Nothing else happens



oh because when i turn on the pj the light turns orange and when you power down the bulb stays orange for a little bit then it goes to flashing green :( :)

Originally posted by rocker999
I called rma at optoma. They say they don't have any units in stock to replace mine with and he sounded unsure about the firmware...
I am shipping it out today.
Man this REALLY SUCKS....

Call them back and tell them to just replace the lamp if you want the projector back sooner. Also, they should be able to do the firmware upgrade as well.

Rocker 999,

When we initially called Optoma for an RMA to return our unit, they said they had no H30's in stock. We told them to just fix the problem and send it back. They were able to "find" a brand new unit in stock and shipped it out overnight.

Originally posted by new teq joe
oh because when i turn on the pj the light turns orange

Joe, isn't it green when it's in operation? :confused:

Joe, isn't it green when it's in operation?


when it is pluged in it is green but when it is working it is orange :confused:

Thanks guys, just talking to you guys makes me feel better.
I guess I'm not the only one and will on the phone tech support seemed really helpful..
I am asking them for a new model with updated firmware..
Will keep you informed...

Originally posted by Larsage
I got a question.. Does all VGA input make full use of the chip 4:3?
I am interested in buying the european version, and just use SCART-VGA which comes with this PJ. Do i get full 4:3 or just the 16:9 on the bottom?
Ill set my marantz dv4200 player to panscan or letterbox and not 16:9...
Oh and another quistion: Does SCART-VGA use the deinterlacer chip? My dvd player hasn't got a progressive out...

Greetz
Lars

Just wondered if someone has a few answers :D

PS Thnx to everyone sofar posting, i finally finished all posts. Especially Tom makes a great salesman lol. Was a lot to read, but i am still a lil confused bout the differences between the themescene h30 (europe) and the optoma h30...

mike stupid me :( the lite is green when i turn on the pj and the pj is in use and it turns orange when i shut down the pj when it is cooling down and then it turns green ( flashing ) when i can turn the pj off .


man what a dinck i am some times " well it must be Monday"


oh and mike i upgraded the firm ware on xp30 and now i have 302 and the pic is much sharper and i i have more control over the pic . the funny thing is the pic is not as green as before ? interesting


very nice ;)

Originally posted by new teq joe
oh and mike i upgraded the firm ware on xp30 and now i have 302 and the pic is much sharper and i i have more control over the pic .


very nice ;)

I just did my RP-82 this weekend as well. I haven't had much chance to check it out yet though. Sounds good though, Joe.

Does anybody use the H30 with a PAL DVD 16:9?
I'm concerning that the 800x600 resolution is not ideal for PAL, since in 16:9 the scaler has to reduce the native 567 vertical PAL resolution to 450 lines, which really is a big reduction. How does it effect the picture compared to NTSC, which only has to reduce from 480 to 450 lines?
I hope somebody can help me to compare the PAL versus NTSC with this projector.

mike stupid me the lite is green when i turn on the pj and the pj is in use and it turns orange when i shut down the pj when it is cooling down and then it turns green ( flashing ) when i can turn the pj off .


but this is normal :)

does anyone have a preference for dvd players? assuming no htpc is planned, is there a dvd player out there that'll complement the H30? non expensive one?
is there a dvd player that'll output vga so no adapter is used or needed?
Getting the H30 on weds !!! cant wait.
jay:D

wonder if i should just resend this pj , box unopened, to optoma for the upgrade firmware . ? i guess it'll help on the 30 day policy since i havent opened it yet . then i'll have 30 days after the upgrade to play around with it .
or just open it and not torture myself on the wait to get it back. waited long enough .....
any thoughts?
jay:confused:

Since no one's actually seen an upgraded one yet (hopefully I'll get mine back tomorrow), I would wait a little. It's not going to make any difference since it's not a defective return.

Regarding a DVD player, the best for the lowest price would be a Denon 910, but the H30's deinterlacing is good enough that even a low priced JVC using the 480i output would make a good match.

Hmmm . . . haven't heard from Tom this morning. Wonder if he's on his way over to Optoma with his H30.

Hey Tom! Don't bother Wing until he's done with mine. :D

When I called in they said it would still take overnight to do a projector. So more like two days to fix. Mike didn't they confirm a mail out date?

Still waiting. Hoping for word today.

The anticipation of Mike or Tom getting an updated projector to test is almost starting to resemble the buzz that naturally occurs a few days before the big concert that you've been waiting months for comes to town. :D

Optoma RMA policy says all Home Theater projectors sold after july 2000 have a 3 year warranty.

H30 is a Home theater projector. Yet spec sheets says 2 year warranty. Conflicting info...

Well the website says 2years and Wing posted here saying 2 years so I am sure it is 2 years, but I'll take 3 if I can get it! Of course Wing was specifically talking about dead pixels when he mentioned it. Maybe other parts are covered for 3 years. Would be nice to clear that up.

sorry to break up the buzz before the anticipated upgrade but will a jvc dvd player with a built in vhs player also qualify as a good dvd player for the H30? want to streamline the rack. any reason to think that combo players are inferior to the single players (jvc) that the H30 "likes". is there a specific feature of the jvc that i need to find?
thanks.
jay

A couple of questions-

First, what is the cheapest way to convert (regular cable) composite signal to component.

Second, for those gamers out there, can the Xbox be connected to the H30 via a component cable?

I may beat out Mike :)

My H30 arrives there Tuesday/tomorrow. I put a note in there saying Wing says to take care of me fast. I did talk to a Tech just before I shipped it today. He says no problem the firmware is ready to be applied as soon as the receive the projector. Just a day to fix and they'll ship it back.

Now I have to watch a mini 65H80 RPTV. :(

I really was doing ok without the firmware, just wanted to see what the new zoom is like and the lining up of all native aspects to include 1080i. This will be the week of the firmware reviews. Stay tuned

Originally posted by SGOne


First, what is the cheapest way to convert (regular cable) composite signal to component.



I don't know of any cheap way to do it (and if there was I would doubt the quality). The best way (and probably the cheapest) would be to use an IScan Plus (or better yet, an Iscan Pro) that converts all inputs to 480p. It does a great job with SD cable and satellite when used with a big screen of any type.

Originally posted by guitarman
I may beat out Mike :)


You just might. I called Wing this morning and left a message, but no response yet. :(
Hope your "day to fix" is shorter than mine.

Whenever they do send it, it's going via Next Day Air, so that's not an issue.

-- I would certainly stay away from the Combo players [ especially those that mix VHS and DVD ] .

-- I second Mike's suggestion of an Iscan Pro for SD cable [ best and least expensive way to do it with decent results ] .

-- The Xbox can be connected via Component cables to the supplied Component to VGA adapter [ this comes with the H30 ] .

--- Sheesh guys I already sent mine and got it back with the new firmware ...








;)
----- Jason

tom you should get wing to talk to xing down here in Toronto so he knows how every thing is suppose to be like in th new firm ware ;) and what adjustments have to be made and all that, and then xing and i could make things happen down here cheers tom.



tom there is a sample that i have here from vutec it is the pearl bright 3.1 and it is very nice and it acts like the high power (not quite ) but close and a better viewing angle :)

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
--- Sheesh guys I already sent mine and got it back with the new firmware ...


Now that's just mean. ;)

"Now that's just mean. "

--- and I don't even need it - lol ;) .

---- Jason


----- Except mine says c05rc1 what could that mean ?



Haha .... ;)

You know what, neither do I. :(

Sheesh guys I already sent mine and got it back with the new firmware

jason they have the new firm ware down here in canada what # is the new firm ware so when i talk to xing see if it is it .

The problem is you guys need to treat Wing like you work with him , yep ... me and the 'wingman' go way back ... honest :) .
---- Jason

Joe ,
--- it is c05 .

---- Jason


------ I don't really have the new Firmware Joe , I am just giving Mike and Tom a hard time since they are in a heated battle to be the first :) .

Originally posted by guitarman
I may beat out Mike :)

Now I have to watch a mini 65H80 RPTV. :(



Tom, you could always break down and watch your HT1000!

Steve

"Tom, you could always break down and watch your HT1000!

Steve"

------- Yeah , what's up with that ???? ;)

it is c05 .



thanks jason just email xing and now wait for an answer ;)

Update: I just talked to Wing and he said my projector shipped today!!
Should have it tomorrow. :D

Vorst: Most of my DVDs are PAL, and the ones I've tried looked great. It's true that a 1024x576 resolution would probably be slightly better for PAL discs, but it's definitely good enough (for me at least).

YEAH , Alright Mike ... now lets hope Tom has the same luck !!!

--- So are they doing a total re-calibration with the Firmware update ?

--- Should the Projector come back with all defaults calibrated to 6500k ?

----- Jason

Hi H30 lovers, I will be going to collect my H30 today, what is the best way to connect a Panny RP82 to the H30? through the VGA port? if so, do I use a component to VGA component cable like the one used to connect an Infocus X1?

Your help much appreciated.

Mike wins, will you be able to report tomorrow?

So are they doing a total re-calibration with the Firmware update ?

Yes, that's what they did with mine anyway.

Should the Projector come back with all defaults calibrated to 6500k ?

I hope so. I won't be able to really check it accurately until I can get a friend with a Sencore to stop by.

what is the best way to connect a Panny RP82 to the H30?

I just use my regular component cables and the component-to-VGA adapter that comes with the H30.

will you be able to report tomorrow?

I should be able to tomorrow afternoon. BTW, after they do the firmware and recalibrate, it goes through QA before they release it. In the past, it's taken them two days to turn it around, so you might want to check with them first thing tomorrow.

Mike -

Hurry.

Well, I'm still waiting...

John F
Las Vegas, NV

I'd be interested to hear how 1080i fits with the native aspects and how the new zoom works.

The letterbox thing also. How and where is it displayed.

Hi Mike, thanks for reply, my concern was that the component to VGA adaptor that comes with the H30 may be low quality, so it may be futile, if I get an expensive set of quality component cables, as the comp to VGA adaptor is the weak link, or does it really not matter?

Mike- Are you locking the doors at surf* tomorrow and devoting the day to this? :D

He had better , or he runs the risk of being booted from the few , the proud , the totally dedicated H30 gurus club .
--- Ok not really but we can hope the juicy details start flown' tomorrow :) .
-------- Jason

Don't worry, I would never betray such a sacred trust as that of "The Order of The H30". :D

Okay . . . now that's just wrong. I've been without the projector for so long now my brain's been affected from H30 withdrawal. :(

Well let's see here............ FedEx delivers by 10am Pacific Time....

So we can all expect the reports to start flowing from San Clemente by ...... shall we say 10:30??

Steve

xvader
If you prefer going with a component to VGA cable. Try the Belden one, I use a Belden 25' with good results. Even though one outfit recommends if you go over 15' on a mini/component to vga cable there could be signal loss. I don't see any and I've a/b'ed component with this cable. I tried the adaptor also with a 50' component cable. Still couldn't see a difference. So either of these choices would be good.

I miss the H30 and a friend has my HT1000 so I'm reduced back to the old RPTV days. :)

If any of you are going to go for the firmware update I recommend writing down all the Service Menu numbers, just in case you preferred the colors as they were. (Picture, Contrast, Brightness, ADA) I think it's ADA, don't have my PJ here to confirm. :(

Thanks Tom, that's what I intend to do, get a custom made Belden cable. You are really helpful.

Does anyone has some experience with SCART-VGA connections? Does it open up the full 4:3 chip? And will it use the deinterlacerchip?
Hopefully someone knows something bout this...
I would very much like to join the H30 family somewhere near in the future ;)

Greetz
Lars

Oh and another question, would i be able to ceiling mount? My ceiling is 10,6 feet high and my max projectiondistance is 11,88 feet...
Or would this require excessive keystone?

Greetz
Lars

Lars: Scart is just 480i and will not open the full display (at least not with the C04 (Jan 2004) firmware)
use the calculator for projection distance on projectorcentral.com
Heigth seems ok, maybe tingtong can tell his ceiling height?

TingTong: The service menu works ok, tried it, no difference between optoma and themescene, just keep trying, its a bit tricky, had to try couple of times myself.

WOW...thats the first word my wife said last night....and I was dressed...

I got my H30 yesterday after work mostly due to this thread.....I live in a small town in Eastern Canada that if you have a 21 inch TV you have a home theatre....I have never seen a home theatre projector but knew they existed.... I built a house last year and included a room for my media dream...The room is 26x16x10, with no windows. I have been browsing the forums here for the last 6 months religiously everyday reading as much as I could trying to gain some knowledge. I took the plunge about a month ago and ordered a H30, mount and a Perm-Wall Cinema Vision 96x72 screen. I got the projector for 1950 Canadian which is amazing for the quality.

Last night I hooked up my heavily modded Xbox which is the centre of alot of my media watching and my newly built HTPC. After a little configuration I called the wife downstairs and got approval for my many hours of research.

Let me say I was expecting alot...After reading this thread over the last few months and looking at the screenshots I knew it was going to be amazing....But it was beyond that....My wife and I watched LOTR FOTR last night and about 10 times throughout the 1st DVD both of us said this is better than anything we have ever seen by far...It exceeded both our expectations hugely....The cool thing is this HT room isnt even started yet. The screen is hung on the wall with 2 nails and I can still see the floor joists above. So alot of work is left to be done.... The experience will only get better...As you can read I am very happy with my choice...

I am running my xbox and htpc through a DVDO iScan Pro and most of my source material is 4:3 and I asked a question in an earlier post would the firmware upgrade help me? Do the full 4:3 panel open fully using the iScan Pro XGA cable as a source?

Also if I was to pick one complaint is the screen slightly shifted left to right thoughout the DVD...i had the DVD picture centered at the beginning and every 10 minutes or so it would be slightly left then slightly right of the 96 inch screen...It would have a slight overspill on the wall....I found that odd....

Anyways I have a huge amount of tweaking/playing to do but my first 4 hours of bulb use has been pure pleasure....

Thanx again to the contributers of this thread....:D

guitarman,

Do you know what Optoma changed the "digital zoom" increments to? Is it 1% per click?

Thanks,

Frank T. Lee

Return of the King? HTPC? Mostly 4:3 material?

If I put this information together correctly, I must say that you should try paying for movies on DVD instead - if you know what I mean ;)

Good for you RiKochet!

I very much look forward to that first WOW out of my wife's mouth which I'm confident will come. She is getting rather sick of walking past the computer and seeing these blue, gray and pink pages! :D

I have to believe that with your HTPC you can open up the entire 4:3 image. Maybe you're missing a software app like Powerstrip or something to that affect. I have no clue but I'm guessing Jason would be good enough to guide you. :)

Weird on the horizontal shift thing..

Congrats and cheers!

Just wanted to say that I went and saw Dawn of the dead last night (good movie!) and the high def. windows trailers I have on my pc LOOKED WAY BETTER than the new theater I saw the movie in.
If you are lucky enough to have a pc capable of playing these files I think anyone would be floored with the pic on the h30.
I will post some pics when I get The projector back.



http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/content_provider/film/ContentShowcase.aspx

Quote:
"--------- gottahavapj's Wife : "This is going to look better than that projection thingy you brought home from work like six years ago isn't it?" ... and the best response for proper WAF : " Certainly , it will be just as beautiful as you have become over the last six years " - Ding-Ding-Ding , we have a Winner ... Tell him what he's won Johnny ... Congratulations sir you have just won a brand new DLP projector from Optoma !!! ;)"

Toooo funny Jason! Thanks for that! :D

Frank, digital zoom,

Wing told me the set it to do slight increments of zoom allowing a 2.35 to be better show without black bars above and below.

If I play 5th element on a H30 (seems a 2.35) I can not get the right setting, it stays double 2.35 so too wide.. Tried the DVD letterbox setting to no avail.. What am I doing wrong here??

Ok thnx for the answers.. I heard from themescene europe that the new firmware will be in the april models with full use of the 4:3 chip..
I ll wait some more cause i like the free lens mask cap and the 4:3 thingie...

Greetz Lars

RiKochet ,
--- Firstly please edit your post and remove the movie that you mentioned watching [ since it is an illegal release that you speak of - this type of discussion is not allowed at AVS and we all have to respect what this board stands for - thank you ] .
--- Your shifting problem is either a sync issue or you are using dvd playback software that has an 'Orbit' feature which shifts the image about in slight amounts to help prevent burn-in [ mostly used for CRT projection and Plasma ] . The Iscan might possibly have the 'Orbit' feature as well .
--- I also hope you are not running the HTPC through the Iscan , this is not how it should be connected [ connect the HTPC directly to the H30 ] .
_________________________
rocker999 ,
--- Agreed , WMV9 HD content is incredible !
--- I enjoyed the new Dawn of the Dead movie too ;) .
_________________________
gottahavapj ,
--- Hehe , Glad you enjoyed it ;) .
_________________________
vjren ,
--- You should be able to obtain the proper aspect ratio while in 16:9 mode with 2.35:1 material . Be sure you have your dvd player set to 16:9 [ Widescreen ] mode as well .
_________________________
----- Jason

Hello

i´m a future european buyer of an ThemeScene H30, and i have some questions..

1. The Optoma H30 have some diference with the Themescene H30? (i think no...)

2. Recent posts despiste me... what problems are with the released firmwares, everybody talk for a future updates that solutions some with the 4:3 mode, but i don´t know exactly what is the actual problem...

3. The vga to component cable accepts progressive mode?

Thanx to all

Please can anybody post some pictures with the camera at 4-5 cm of the screen? and from an xbox game??

I wonder if the new firmware being available will mean units will be shipping again soon.

I ll wait some more cause i like the free lens mask cap and the 4:3 thingie...

Just so you realize, the lens mask is just for the 16.9 masked view at the bottom of the chip. Easy for members choosing a 16.9 screen but if you plan on a 4.3 screen you'll have to take the mask off each time you switch between 4.3 and 16.9.

Frank, digital zoom,

Wing told me the set it to do slight increments of zoom allowing a 2.35 to be better show without black bars above and below.



guitarman,

I do not know what this means. On the H76 the increment is 8% for every click. So, on setting 1, there is 0% overscan. On setting 2, there is 8% overscan. On setting 3, there is 16% overscan. Etc....

Didn't you say that the H30 initally had a high percentage like the H76 but that Optoma changed it? If so, what are the details?\

Thanks,

Frank

Ooops...I meant LOTR FOTR(apologize)...I saw ROTK last week in the theatre which rocked as well....

Anyways I was watching LOTR FOTR using my bought version though my Xbox which was going throught the iScan Pro when the picture shifting occured...Its a very subtle shift that wudnt be noticeable if i had a black wall behind the screen to absorb the color...

And yes the HTPC is connected to a vga switch which goes directly to the H30....

Frank, yes they said added in the firmware was a short increment zoom. We'll be testing it out this week so look back.

I know Tom but if i wait i can try it in all modes :D
We dutch peeps like free stuff :D

colecconsolas

as for the differences i got this from themescene europe:

It is a fact that many manufacturers do not fully differentiate between the
projectors that they sell into the USA and those into Europe. This often
results in a lack of European features and less than optimum performance.

Our European designers have really gone to town optimising the ThemeScene
H30 to the requirements of European users.

If you look at our brochure it explains how we have made a European model.

1. The ThemeScene H30 is sold only in Europe. The Optoma H30 sold in the
USA is different.

2. PAL colour characteristics are completely different from NTSC, so we have
set all the ThemeScene default settings to Optimise PAL performance.

3. ThemeScene H30 has SCART RGB implemented enabling excellent picture
automatically. Most other projectors can only show composite. This is not
required in the USA.

4. We supply the SCART to VGA connector enabling the use of SCART RGB. You
can use from DVD player, VCR, digital set-top box and games console. This
proprietary connector is only available from ThemeScene.

5. ThemeScene H30 is 16:9 as standard but because of popular demand we are
implementing access to the full chip in 800 x 600 mode. This modification
will ship on the units that we supply to our distributors and resellers in
April. The electronically masked 16:9 is actually 800 x 450 which is true
16:9. We will also supply a lens mask which will not only avoid the light
leakage but will also increase the contrast ratio.

5. Accessories packages are different for ThemeScene.

6. Please note: ThemeScene warranty is only available in EMEA.

7. Please also note: Optoma warranty does not apply in Europe for the
Optoma H30.

8. There is no upgrade to Themescene version available.

9. The SCART to RGB connector is not available separately.


Greetz Lars

Originally posted by RiKochet
Anyways I was watching LOTR FOTR using my bought version though my Xbox which was going throught the iScan Pro when the picture shifting occured...Its a very subtle shift that wudnt be noticeable if i had a black wall behind the screen to absorb the color...


The Iscan Pro does have the "Orbit" feature Jason mentioned above, so that's likely the cause of the shift.

Whoops . . . gotta go. UPS is at the door. :D

Come on Mike!!! It's been 13 minutes since your post! :D

Hey Mikey!!!!!

It's 10:32........

We are waiting!!!

Steve

UPS .... ah no !!!!
-- I thought they used FedEx ... that might sway me away from getting the Firmware updated at all [ nothing but bad luck with UPS here ] .
--------- Jason

come on guys give mike a break he is doing a serious scope on the new machine ;) and i am sure it won't be long "patients " ;)

rsmith4321 I was told by my vendor that they had just received new units and were expecting to start shipping them immediately.

I assume the firmware is listed on the menu somewhere. It's probably been posted already but can someone explain how to identify which firmware you have and what numbers? are the old and new versions?

thanks!

:clap

Service menu

Up + Enter (at the same time) , hit it twice

Left + Enter (at the same time) , hit it twice

--- Once into the service menu you will see the Firmware listed at the top .
--- Known Versions are c03 [ Tom ] , c04 [ most others ] , c05 [ New - Mike checking now ;) ] .
--------------------------
--- Jason

"Known Versions are c03 [ Tom ]"

I guess this proves I got the first machine in the US. I was hawking the Net searching for weeks until the first one appeared up in Salt Lake City. They got it to me in two days, the rest is history. lol

Still amazed the the colors, blacks/&detail in blacks and the main thing I was looking for, the hidden screen door.

I did have a very nice Seleco HT200 which also had a SVGA hidden screen door. Now this H30 is very similar in colors, reds especially and it's got the high contrast DDR dark chip. That Seleco retailed at $5999.00 in it's low priced days. So just how good is this Optoma bargain. Very very good! :)

Now where's my machine. ;)

I just posted the Service menu info on the first page of my website so people can have an easy time of finding it [ but then I guess they will not know if they don't see this post either ;) ] . Click the WWW link above [ for those that do not know ] .

-------- Jason

c05 is the new firmware version.

Upon a quick overview, everything seems to be as advertised (basically as Tom has posted). The full chip is used with a 4:3 input through the component inputs when set to 4:3 Native (not 4:3 though). The zoom feature is actually usable at setting "2" now. With a 16:9 image on the 16:9 Native setting, you still get the pixels cropped off the width (800 X 480). 16:9 image is at the bottom of the chip and for those with a 16:9 screen, a 4:3 image is displayed in the center (600 X 450).

There's been a lot of questions posted about specifics in this thread and rather than try and find them all, just post if you have anything specific you'd like to know and I'll check it out.

BTW, I won't have a chance to check HD until later today.

Jason, you left out the final code in case they get an ISF or are handy with calibration.

Final code: Down + Left + Up at the same time just once.

Use the cross arrows on the PJ to move about and enter to open up each menu. It you get stuck in a menu use the "Menu" button on the PJ to get out.

"most important, stay away from colorwheel & Factory reset" Write down you original numbers.


Greetz Lars,
"The electronically masked 16:9 is actually 800 x 450 which is true
16:9."

This is the part that interests me, we'll see from Mike in a minute but I assume from what I was told that also 16.9native/480p and 4.3 Native will also be available in the masked 16.9 format. A puzzling question relating to the mask since 480p s/b a taller image so how will this effect the mask? We'll see.

The other items make sense in that color calibration will be different. But the Scart vs VGA will be the same quality. Hey my PJ has been saying "Themscene" for the past couple of months. There's a Logo option in the service menu. which over here s/b changed back to "Optoma" if your've sending it in. Don't want to confuse the Techs ;).

Light spill at the top or bottom?
16:9 image at the bottom of the 4:3 screen?
Congratz on getting your PJ back Mike!

How's the new calibration/green push?

16.9native/masked vs 16.9scaled, both at the bottom of the chip so how do you think the mask will be effected if 16.9native is taller?

Adding a couple more,

How does the Letterbox support work. Amplifiy on how the new zoom works, pls

Thanks Mike
Just checked UPS isn't all bad Optomas signed for my PJ at 9:15am today. I'll put a call into Wing and have him put the Thumb screws on the update guys. :)

Tom ,
-- I left it off here on purpose since the question was regarding the firmware version look-up only .
-- The full sequence is posted on my website however .

--- Problems with UPS is not always the time frame , it is the way they handle packages [ a fragile sticker will get the box used as a football ... it's up and it's good ;) ] .

---------- Jason

Some would like to know if composite or s-video input also allows the full 800:600 resolution.

This might enable the 16:9 image of a dvdplayer set to 4:3 mode to be displayed in the middle? (For those with high keystone because of ceiling mounted H30's)

Rene

I am wondering if i can display a dvd in the middle of a 4:3 screen with my dvd standalone player connected with scart RGB-VGA input...
I really like to use this projector with a 4:3 screen...

Greetz Lars

Hi guys. Have to run out for a bit, but I'll get to your questions in an hour or so.

Tom, I forgot. Were you interested in the letterbox support in 4:3 mode (both player and projector)?

Hmmmmm.......

"5. ThemeScene H30 is 16:9 as standard but because of popular demand we are implementing access to the full chip in 800 x 600 mode. This modification will ship on the units that we supply to our distributors and resellers in April. The electronically masked 16:9 is actually 800 x 450 which is true 16:9. We will also supply a lens mask which will not only avoid the light leakage but will also increase the contrast ratio."

Quick question for anyone in the know - Will Optoma UK ship the lens mask free to buyers who've already purchased the Themescene H30?
Probably a question best directed Optoma....but just incase any reps are reading
(I've had little success getting email responses from Optoma - Sent 6 so far asking various questions and not one reply - ho Hum !)

Yes how is Letterbox handled? Hope u hv a NA-dvd handy.

Wings putting the screws to them for me. :)
He says the lens mask will work for native and scaled. S/b be ready down the road a bit.

OK..... 40 minutes left.... I hope this wasn't to get lunch- I would have bought if he'd ordered in.... of course I jest :)... thanks for your efforts Mike!

I await the "position of the 16:9 image on a 4:3 screen when the projector is ceiling mounted- using a DVD player as the source" answer with absolute baited breath....

Thanks again!

"Didn't you say that the H30 initally had a high percentage like the H76 but that Optoma changed it? If so, what are the details?\"
Yes it was the same 8% per notch.

Oh no, I'm spouting off movie quotes, "8% per notch" shades of Gangs of New York. :)

Frank, I thought I read over there that you applied a new firmware to the H76 personally. If so how was it done? what kind of connection?

Would be great if Optoma could release a few cables and software for doing real world firmware beta testing [ just to a few experienced people only so they do not run into widespread technical problems ] . This could improve the speed of the firmware process and allow for first hand AVS member responses in real time as the firmware updates are being introduced [ testers might even be able to contribute with some practical suggestions ] . I really do not see the harm in this unless there is something specific about the H30 that makes it different from many digitals which can be updated by the end-user . I would certainly be interested in doing some beta testing as I am sure Tom and Mike would as well ;) .

--- So how long do you suppose that updated H30 will last with Mike before he gets somebody offering to buy it ;) .

------- Jason

"few cables and software for doing real world firmware beta testing"

They were a little illusive on that one. I'm thinking maybe they have to open up the PJ and talk to the boards.

I guess that is possible but then what is the cable slot on the back of the unit for [ labeled as " K " ] ?

--- I am assuming this is the jack used for a firmware update but I could be way off .

---- Jason

You could be right. If Frank will get back he can describe how he updated the H76. I'll got take a look at the H76 back panel if it's up.

Okay. here's some more info:
Component video input using the supplied adapter.

4:3 Screen Users:

DVD player set to 4:3 P&S
With a letterboxed, non-anamorphic disk -

4:3 Native mode gives you a full width picture, letter boxing above and below, proper aspect ratio.

4:3 mode boxes the image in on both sides as well

Image is centered for table or ceiling mount.

With a anamorphic widescreen disk -

4:3 Native gives a full width picture, centered in screen with either type mount

16:9 Screen Users:

Image is at bottom, regardless of whether the projector's table or ceiling mounted.

Zoom

Appears to be about 5% each increment. About 40 pixels are lost on each side of the image on setting "2", another 40 each side at setting "3". "2" is quite useable for NA WS disks or any WS disk on a 4:3 screen, with little picture degradation. After that, forget it IMO.

Green push is gone. Progressive and interlaced both look fine. I'll check everything with Avia later.

I'll try an S-video input next.

It's probably a Kensington cable slot. That's some sort of security strap system in the PC world. You attach one end of the cable to that slot and the other end to a sturdy part of the building or something.

Hey Pimp,

I ordered the Panavise Mount. How exactly did you connect a safety cable? Just curious, hope to do the same with my PJ.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
4:3 Screen Users:

DVD player set to 4:3 P&S
With a letterboxed, non-anamorphic disk -

4:3 Native mode gives you a full width picture, letter boxing above and below, proper aspect ratio.

4:3 mode boxes the image in on both sides as well

Image is centered for table or ceiling mount.

With a anamorphic widescreen disk -

4:3 Native gives a full width picture, centered in screen with either type mount



Hi Mike. This is news to me, probably because of my limited ability to read and understand posts at this site! I thought the 16:9 image was always at the bottom of the screen. What you are saying here is that because I have a 4:3 screen I will always leave the projector set to one of the 4:3 modes, even when I watch 16:9 material? And doing this will place the 16:9 image in the center of the screen.

Only if I had a 16:9 screen would I have the image be at the bottom of the screen, but because I have a 4:3 screen, I should just leave the PJ set to 4:3? Do I have the option of setting the PJ to 16:9 mode with a 4:3 screen and have the image appear at the bottom? If so then I can either have the image in the center for 16:9 or at the bottom correct?

Sorry for the confusion, but I am confused :) Thanks!

Mike's feeding a 4.3 aspect from the DVD player. I assume if you run your DVD player in 16.9 the image will shoot down to the bottom. DVD setup at 16.9 is the better way because you get the full resolution, about a 33% increase.

So Mike is this right? Do things change when you set the player to 16.9?

Also it will probably work the same way with a STB. Set it to 4.3 letterbox and the image would be centered. Set to 16.9 the image falls at the bottom, I figure. Need Mike to clarify.

Originally posted by guitarman
DVD setup at 16.9 is the better way because you get the full resolution, about a 33% increase.

So if you tell your DVD player it is projecting on a 4x3 display it will not send the full 480 lines of vertical resolution to the display? Even though the display has plenty of available resolution available...

So then Tom if we are going to use a 4x3 screen we should set the H30 to 4x3 native and then tell the DVD player the image is being sent to a 16x9 display device?

Steve

Steve, Not sure, we'll hv to see what Mike says. For 4.3 screen setups it's not totally awful using a DVD player in 4.3, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. Where's Mike :)

When the H30's in 4:3 native, the image is centered no matter how the DVD player's set. Setting my JVC to 16:9 Normal with the H30 on 4:3 native results in a vertically streched image. The player want's to know what screen you're using, not what the source is. Both set to 4:3 is correct, at least with the JVC.

Setting the projector to 16:9 Native drops the image to the bottom.

how about the PAL DVD?

Great stuff!! Thanks for the efforts Mike!

Thanks Mike, Now this is excellent news. And makes good sense because 4.3 screen users don't need the lens mask. I think I may skip the lens mask and hook up my old 4.3 screen since 16.9 will be centered. I prefer it this way. Good news indeed for me.




what tom no high power screen for you :eek:

"Setting my JVC to 16:9 Normal with the H30 on 4:3 native results in a vertically streched image"

Whoops I was off the mark on my previous post. Mike this tells me the only way to get the anamorphic squeeze is to use 16.9native and have a 16.9 screen.

4.3 screen user can't squeeze the additional vertical resolution when setting the player to 16.9. Ergo Mike seeing a vertically stretched image.

Or you just opt for a 4.3 screen and live with a squeezed 16.9 image going to the bottom of the screen.

"Thanks Mike, Now this is excellent news. And makes good sense because 4.3 screen users don't need the lens mask. I think I may skip the lens mask and hook up my old 4.3 screen since 16.9 will be centered. I prefer it this way. Good news indeed for me."

Sorry Joe, I deleted that post becuase I wasn't reading Mikes latest info right. looks like I'm swtiching back to a 16.9 screen.

They only thing that's still questionable is HDTV and how it fits.

I was thinking, for 16:9 screen people who want the image centered, you could set the projector to 4:3 native and then adjust the H30 to your screen size.

I'll try the HD and S-video this evening.

Setting my JVC to 16:9 Normal with the H30 on 4:3 native results in a vertically streched image"

Wait set the JVC to straight 16.9 see what happens with the anamorphic widescreen image being centered, when choosing 4.3 on the projector. I'd bet this will show the image compressed correctly. If so I'm back to a 4.3 screen. lol

Tom, the other option is 16:9 Auto. I'll see how that looks.

Gotta run out again, but I'll let you know. Also, I need to run the Avia resolution patterns to really see what's going on.

Thats the one (auto) it reads that way on the 500 model I have.

Why I question is because JVC's have the Normal and 16.9auto choices for those that aren't familair with the models. 16.9 Normal will stretch up a non-anamorphic DVD. Lets see what happens.

Sorry Joe, I deleted that post because I wasn't reading Mikes latest info right. looks like I'm stitching back to a 16.9 screen.


tom why shrink the the pic to fit 1.78.1 if you can get 4:3 and have the w.s centered or is this where the stretching comes from ?


remember my size screen will be the same size as yours ;)

Joe as long as we can get a squeezed 16.9 (33% more info) image in the center of the screen, then I'll go 4.3. Most likely it will do this. This is the way most all dual purpose 4.3 projectors are setup to work. But Mike scared me when he said the widescreen image was stretched up.

"Setting my JVC to 16:9 Normal with the H30 on 4:3 native (which will center the image) results in a vertically streched image"

Joe as long as we can get a squeezed 16.9 image in the center of the screen, then I'll go 4.3. Most likely it will do this. This is the way most all dual purpose 4.3 projectors are setup to work. But Mike scared me when he said the widescreen image was stretched up.


OK so if we go with 52 x 92 16:9 or a 68 x 92 4:3 there will be no problem fitting either way :)

because i am using not much zoom already .also on my xp30 i took off the zoom 1 and set it to 0 so i have more play i think .

Yes the images would fit correctly for you with either screen. The standard for video 4.3 will be 69"X92.

why can't we use 4:3 screen with anamorphic widescreen image ?

Yes the images would fit correctly for you with either screen. The standard for video 4.3 will be 69"X92.



ok now where talking tom ;) so now i just got the message from will xing here in to saying that the firmware was not released yet :confused: and then i told will hay there is people state side and Canadian side that are having it done ,so then i invited him on the forum but he did not give me an answer yet . but he seems like a great guy .

Then xing has to catch up on his homework.

My buddy Wing went over to Taiwan, they conversed him on the Firmware and he brought it back. Tested it out for awhile and released. The lens masks will be coming from Taiwan soon also. But if we go with 4.3 screens we won't need it.

How do you like that Mike taking time out for diner. ;) We need the finals on the anamorphic squeeze with a centered up 16.9 on a 4.3 screen.

hey guys

does all this firmware stuff mean optoma is starting to ship the h30 again

"why can't we use 4:3 screen with anamorphic widescreen image ?"

We're not certain yet if there's an aspect that will display that image in the center of the screen.

16.9 screen setup they'll be no problem.

How do you like that Mike taking time out for diner. We need the finals on the anamorphic squeeze with a centered up 16.9 on a 4.3 screen.



well i guess he is paying everybody back for all the suffering he was going threw waiting for the firmware to come back


bad bad bad mikey:D

Will is the guy I talked to also and he seems great!!
Look like california didn't give it to canada yet.
I hope it's soon cause they have my projector and I am waiting now..

Will is the guy I talked to also and he seems great!!




he should get back to me tomorrow and then we will see ;)

Okay, tried 16:9 Auto and there's no change. I've got to say though that a 2.35 anamorphic image is almost the same size on the screen whether it's 16:9 Auto on the player with 16:9 Native on the H30, or with 4:3 on the player and 4:3 native on the H30. Very slight difference and the pixel size looks the same.

As our illustrious governor would say: "I'll be back". :D

Stay tuned.

Okay now I am confused....

Is the image vertically distored or not???

Steve

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
Okay now I am confused....

Is the image vertically distored or not???

Steve

It's distorted if the DVD player's set to 16:9 and the H30's set to 4:3. If both are set to 4:3, the player's doing the anamorphic squeeze and everything's fine.

Just got done picking my movie for the evening, Dawn of the Dead , turned on the projector and the dreaded orange light came on . Coincidence ? My unit has about 120 hrs on it and has worked perfectly until now . Hopefully Optoma can bring it back to life quickly before I start having withdrawels .

it sounds like the bulb went ,you should get a new bulb and on top of that you send your pj in and get the firm ware with it :) ,that is not all bad


good movie i watched Dawn of the dead and day of the dead back to back ;) looked good to :)


things will work out for .

I'm getting worried all the people with bad bulbs. Does this mean that after the 3 month bulb warranty they are all going to start going out. Because I can't afford another $400 in the next few months.

Just got my H30 from Dell today. It's 2 weeks earlier than what they predicted. Unfortunately, it has the old firmware (c04). I filled out one of Optoma's RMA forms and emailed it in to them. Hope they reply by tomorrow so I can send the projector out ASAP.

They say not to send the accessories with the projector so I plan on removing the remote, the adapter, the cables, and the paperwork. Should I keep the power cord also? I wouldn't want them to send the projector back to me without a power cord since it's not a standard type like those used for PC's.

Originally posted by MikeSRC
It's distorted if the DVD player's set to 16:9 and the H30's set to 4:3. If both are set to 4:3, the player's doing the anamorphic squeeze and everything's fine.

Okay....... Mike I thought that Tom said if both the player and the projector were set to 4x3 that the image would look correct, but that you would be losing 33% if the vertical pixels.

Steve

SGone,
Thats bad news for all us Dell people. I was hoping for it to come with the new firmware. Hopefully mine was delayed. The only time I would want them to delay my shipment and it will probably get here earlier.

Tom ,

AVS is having a special on the nec ht100
For the following what would you suggest h30 or Nec.
Having ssen both ....if I could get your opinion
(while your waiting for your firmware update)

Main viewing : sd TV (90 %) DVD (10%)
Looking at hdtv in for the future (have hdtv tv with rgb inputs & component)

My ceiling is only 80 inches high and trying to project from 14 feet (like you) which would you suggest ?
Everyone is gung ho on the h30 .... how bout the nec at 2900 us. !!

KenW

"but that you would be losing 33% if the vertical pixels."

This is correct, if you don't set your DVD player to 16.9, you don't get the available vertical resolution so your display device can squeeze it back down creating a more saturated picture. This is what the writing on the DVD's means (Enhanced for widesscreen TV's) The H30 is squeezing the image in 16.9 mode. Looks like I'm back to a 16.9 screen. :)

Hows that HDTV working out?

Originally posted by guitarman
"but that you would be losing 33% if the vertical pixels."

This is correct, if you don't set your DVD player to 16.9, you don't get the available vertical resolution so your display device can squeeze it back down creating a more saturated picture. This is what the writing on the DVD's means (Enhanced for wides-screen TV's) The H30 is squeezing the image in 16.9 mode. Looks like I'm back to a 16.9 screen. :)

Hows that HDTV working out?

Tom isn't this exactly the same way the HT1000 works? If you feed it an anamorphic image telling the player that the display device is 16x9... is the picture not distorted in the vertical? I thought this is why you were using the anamorphic lens on the HT1000 to bring the picture (with all the pixels) back into the proper format.

It would have been "terrific" if the H30 could have provided this on it's own.... but I thought that was the whole reason for buying an anamorphic lens for a 4x3 projector is so you could make use of all the vertical resolution.

Tom are there any 4x3 projectors that do this "anamorphic" squeeze themselves?

Steve

With the HT1000 or the Optoma H56 you can set your DVD player to 16,9 and the projector will squeeze the image correctly in the center of the screen.

This is where the H30 was different, it did this but at the bottom of the chip. This has remained the same. With the H30 like it is you get 800X480 or 800X450 pixels for 16,9 movies. If you use a Panamorph you set the projector to 4.3 using 800X600 and use the lens optics to compressed that full amount of pixels into a 16.9 view. The pixels take on a smaller shape and there's more of them in the same screen area.

SGOne, when did you order your H30 from Dell? I'm curious to know if they're going to start shipping soon. Mine's "scheduled" not to ship until the end of April, but maybe they'll ship sooner (I guess I'd rather have the updated firmware, but I'm eager to start building the screen, too). :)

Thanks.

Lets see if I have this sorted out.

4.3 native aspect opens a full 800X600 4.3 view

4.3 scaled will shoot a window boxed 4.3 image to the bottom of the 800X600 chip.

16.9 Native does a 800X480 a the bottom of the chip

16.9 scaled does 800X450 at the bottom of the chip.

What does window do?

Looks like the format is if you use a 4.3 screen to correctly view 16.9 from a dvd you get the full resolution by setting the player to 16.9 and veiwing at the bottom of the chip or 4.3 screen.

Otherwise use a 16,9 screen and view 4.3 window boxed just like before.

It seems to me the letterbox support is only for a 4.3 screen. To view letterbox dvd in widescreen mode you'll have to have the DVD player handle it like before. Not all dvd player will handle letterbox. JVC's do and the new Pansonic's do. Farjouja chipped players don't.

Mike if I'm off on any of my thinking lmk :)

Originally posted by guitarman
With the HT1000 or the Optoma H56 you can set your DVD player to 16,9 and the projector will squeeze the image correctly in the center of the screen.

This is where the H30 was different, it did this but at the bottom of the chip. This has remained the same. With the H30 like it is you get 800X480 or 800X450 pixels for 16,9 movies. If you use a Panamorph you set the projector to 4.3 using 800X600 and use the lens optics to compressed that full amount of pixels into a 16.9 view. The pixels take on a smaller shape and there's more of them in the same screen area.

On the HT1000 when you set the player to 16x9 and the image is in the center of the screen... how many vertical pixels is the image using? (480?) Then when you swing the anamorphic lens down and set the projector to 4x3 you get the same size image, but now using all 768 vertical pixels... correct?

So the only difference on the H30 is "where" the image is displayed... at the bottom of the lens (which with a ceiling mount puts the image closer to the floor) not how many pixels are being used? ... tracking... yes?

So if you are only getting 480 vertical pixels with the projector set at 16x9 mode, but the image is at the bottom of the lens... what is the benefit of that over setting the projector to 4x3 and the dvd player to 4x3 and getting the same 480 vertical pixels in the center of the screen? I do not see where you are losing any image that way....

I have a Panasonic (i believe) CP75 dvd player... it is supposed to have the Faroudja chip in it, so if a dvd is NOT anamorphic... then it will not be scaled properly?

Steve

You are not losing any resolution with the H30 for DVD viewing as long as your stand-alone DVD player and the H30 are set correctly [ for best results set both to 16:9 (H30 16:9 Native) ] .
-- The reason for the image shift to the bottom is what Wing stated , the lens performs better in that area then it does in the center .
---------- Jason
************* Boy did I miss a sand-storm of posts in a few short hours ;)

hikarate ,
--- Well you can use a 3mm machine bolt and connect at one of the factory mount holes then connect the other end to a location either at one of the ceiling holes which is holding the Panavise or make a new one into a stud just for the safety cable . I crimped on some loop connectors to a short section of braided THX speaker wire [ in white casing ] and tested it by tugging on the connectors with pliers at each end [ plenty strong enough for the 4.5 lb. H30 ] . The THX certified safety cable makes it sound like official HT gear too ;) - lol .
------ Best of Luck with the mount [ I love it :) ] .
---------- Jason

"On the HT1000 when you set the player to 16x9 and the image is in the center of the screen... how many vertical pixels is the image using?"

1024X576.

Here's a comparison on the anamorphic squeeze. I have a 4.3 TV which does the squeeze. If I set the DVD player to 4.3 letterbox I'll get a correctly sized 16.9 image in the center without the 1/3 extra information.

If i set the DVD player to 16.9 I'll then get a much taller stretched up image becuase of the additional 33%. Now I hit the 16.9 squeeze feature on the TV and it compresses the image giving a smoother saturation with higher resolution.

A way to figure how much more is like when Mike said the image was stretched up in the center of the screen. That stretch is approx 1/3 more info. This extra 1/3 is compressed only with the 16.9 native mode and it's shot down to the bottom of the chip.

Whomever mentioned the Kensington key lock port on the back of the H30 is correct , that is certainly what it is :( . So no hopes of in-home firmware updates :( :( :( .
------- Jason

I wonder if the H30 can use the 200 watt lamp found in the ezPro 732 since the cases are identical ... hmmm ;) . The H30 has a 180 watt lamp .
-- Of course this would probably blow the image quality right out of the park .
------- Jason

Might be too hot for the projector also.'

Final undiscovered country is what does Window Aspect do and how's HDTV whether it's 4.3 of 16.9 fit with the aspects that display at the bottom of the chip.

Larsage and others,

interesting that they have optimized the color performance differently for the NTSC and PAL markets but that brings up a number of questions:

Why isn't that done on ALL machines? The machine could easily have different values stored for NTSC and PAL sources. Why differentiate between the markets? Aren't the US customers supposed to be able to view a PAL DVD with the correct color balance and vice versa? Or is it a political decision, like region coding? In that case, why not go all the way and have no PAL playback capability at all on the NTSC machines and vice versa.

And how has this been handled previously on all other HT projectors that have ever been sold? Have they too been color balanced for either PAL or NTSC, but not both?

It seems to me that if you can build a projector that can show PAL and NTSC with different deinterlacing/frequency/decoding then why not implement two different factory settings for color balance that switch automatically depending on source?

This doesn't matter much to US residents I guess, but for us europeans that has to import region 1 DVDs because of limited R2 selection and PAL speedup it is annoying to say the least.

Dinn ,
--- I think the H30 would be fine with either PAL or NTSC after proper calibration since it holds settings in memory according to the input signal [ so PAL would retain its settings as would NTSC provding you have a player that can send both signals properly (480 & 576) ] .
------- Jason

Originally posted by guitarman
"
Here's a comparison on the anamorphic squeeze. I have a 4.3 TV which does the squeeze. If I set the DVD player to 4.3 letterbox I'll get a correctly sized 16.9 image in the center without the 1/3 extra information.

If i set the DVD player to 16.9 I'll then get a much taller stretched up image because of the additional 33%. Now I hit the 16.9 squeeze feature on the TV and it compresses the image giving a smoother saturation with higher resolution.



Okay Tom, but do any of the 4x3 projectors do this anamorphic squeeze automatically?

Steve

Steve ,
-- Yes , many HT digitals do the Squeeze automatically . [ I think Tom is gone for the night so I answered for him ;) ] .

--- The H30 does not Auto detect the signal as being Anamorphic and do the Squeeze itself in 4:3 mode [ unless this has been added with the c05 firmware ] .

--- To do this properly with the H30 you must use the 16:9 modes [ to get the Squeeze ] .

----------------------- Jason

Tom, then the H30 owner who also has a Panamorph can set the DVD player to 16x9 and the projector to 4x3 and let the Panamorph squeeze all 600 vertical lines into creating the properly scaled image in the center of the screen.... whereas the HT1000 owner who did the same would be using 768 vertical lines to create the scaled image... giving a richer - smoother textured image>..........


Now if you set your DVD player and H30 to shall we say 16x9 native then you are using 480 vertical lines to create the image (with 16x9 letterboxed at 450 lines).

So I do not really see any benefit to setting the projector at 16x9... you still only wind up using 480 lines of vertical resolution maximum to create the image... the same as you would if you set the DVD player and projector both to 4x3.... you still get 480 lines of vertical resolution... It seems to me the only way you beat this is with an anamorphic lens... What am I missing here?

I know there are a few DVD players that output 720p, but no one posting here has mentioned using one of those..., it seems most folks with the H30 are using more reasonably priced players. I hate to sound dense..., but I know there must be something that I am not catching on to>>>>>>>>


Steve

Steve ,
--- The direct advantage for the H30 would be that the 16:9 image is shifted to shoot into a better optical area of the lens system vs. 4:3 shooting right in the middle [ from what Wing has stated ] .
------- Jason

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
Steve ,
-- Yes , many HT digitals do the Squeeze automatically . [ I think Tom is gone for the night so I answered for him ;) ] .

Cool by me.... do you know which ones do it automatically?

--- The H30 does not Auto detect the signal as being Anamorphic and do the Squeeze itself in 4:3 mode [ unless this has been added with the c05 firmware ] .

As Mike reported his image was vertically distorted it sure does not sound like this was added with the firmware revision... although I do remember Tom posting a long time ago that Wang said the firmware update would fix the anamorphic squeeze problem... sure doesn't seem to have...

--- To do this properly with the H30 you must use the 16:9 modes [ to get the Squeeze ] .

----------------------- Jason [/B]

As I mentioned below... apparently the 16x9 mode will squeeze an anamorphic DVD into the proper scale...., but it still is only using 480 lines of resolution to do it... so what is the benefit?

Steve

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
Steve ,
--- The direct advantage for the H30 would be that the 16:9 image is shifted to shoot into a better optical area of the lens system vs. 4:3 shooting right in the middle [ from what Wing has stated ] .
------- Jason

Perhaps Mike or Tom (when he gets his back)

can view the same anamorphic movie once with the projector and dvd set at 16x9 and again with both of them set at 4x3 and see if there is a PQ difference that is visible, due to using the different section of the lens. Because in both instances from my reading they will still be using exactly the same number of lines of vertical resolution to create the image..., so any difference that is viewable should be attributable to the lens section being used???

Steve

Steve ,
--- Correct .
--- I can do this now with HTPC [ view right in the middle of a 4:3 native image or use 16:9 at the bottom ] . I would agree that the 16:9 Native selection looks the best even though the resolution is the same 480 lines . I would then have to conclude that this is due to the Lens area being used .
--------- Jason

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
Steve ,
--- Correct .
--- I can do this now with HTPC [ view right in the middle of a 4:3 native image or use 16:9 at the bottom ] . I would agree that the 16:9 Native selection looks the best even though the resolution is the same 480 lines . I would then have to conclude that this is due to the Lens area being used .
--------- Jason

Thanks Jason, that is good to know!

I have never used a HTPC, but I am moving one into the Media Room when I finally decide on a projector.... I find that for most things I wind up using my laptop... the only need for my desktop is to "play." I may have to write and pester you when I am trying to get it set up properly.... It is running an AMD 2600+ with 1 Gig of DDR3200 and an ATI 9600 XT (from PowerColor). I need to run about 25-30 feet from where the equipment is to the projector... my receiver will transcode the s-video (from my Replay and VHS) and output it as well as any of the component inputs (X-Box, DVD, or HD-Cable/Satellite) out over a single component cable. As the receiver (Denon 3805) does not have RGB input capability I will have to use a short set of component cables with the component to rgb adapter into an A/B RGB switch and then RGB to the projector..... or run a separate RGB cable to the projector in addition to the component cables and somehow mount the A/B switch up where the projector is (sounds kinda Rube Goldberg). Several folks have mentioned that the RGB cables seem to be much thinner and more subject to degradation with that length of run..............

Oh well, time for nite nite...............

Steve

Steve ,
-- after re-reading your posts I think I may have mis-understood what you are comparing . Now 4:3 from a DVD player will not give you the benefit of Anamorphic dvd [ more resolution - 1/3 more actually ] . So using 4:3 from the dvd player to 4:3 on the projector will not give the same quality image as 16:9 via the dvd player along with 16:9 on the projector [ did that make sense ;) ] .
---- Good Night :) ,
------ Jason

Pimp,

I know what you are saying about the separate storage of color settings, it would be strange if it could not do this.

But in Larsage's post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3598937#post3598937) Optoma says specifically that the Euopean version has been color calibrated corectly for PAL sources, kind of assuming that the US version has not. Is it up to the users to do color calibration for the "other" video format depending on where they live?

The NTSC version will have the NTSC color calibration settings stored in both NTSC and PAL memory. The PAL version will have the PAL settings stored in both memories. It is up to the user to recalibrate any of the modes if they want. Would that be a correct understanding?

Could any of you owners throw in a PAL DVD (to get the projector in PAL mode) and check to see if any of the color calibration values are different from NTSC?

Is it possible to post all thedifferent settings in resolutions and then telling the pixels used and the edges that are cut off?
Like i got a 4:3 tv and always just used letterbox or panscan, but so much as i understand is i always missed 1/3. I better set it to 16:9 and use the 16:9 squeeze my tv offers..
I really would like a 4:3 screen, but so far as i have read i would need another lens for the additional squeeze..(or project at the bottom).
PLease tell me if i got this right ;)

Greetz Lars

PS Dinn -- i still havent bought this PJ yet and i am not the qualified person to answer PAL NTSC questions cause i am still a n00b in PJ land :D

And one other thing, everyone is very enthausiastic bout this PJ, but this bulb failure thing is worriing me now.. I seen a lot of deffective bulb stories and i am wondering how many peeps actually got this PJ and how many had the bulb failure...
I sincerely do not hope for you guys that no bulb will ever reach his 2000 or 3000 hours....
I am for 1 thing waiting a few weeks to see if more of these bulbfailures pop up, since i am still a student and cant afford buying bulbs every 6 months....

Greetz Lars

Larsage,

We understand your concern about the bulb failure. Our projector failed on the 30th day with only around 150 hours on the bulb. We went to turn it on got whir whir whir and nothing but the orange light that indicated bulb failure. When we called Optoma to determine what to do about it, they said to ship the projector back so that they could determine what caused the bulb to fail, a technician at the time said that they had a number of units with faulty power supplies that caused the bulb to fail prematurely. We don't know if that's what was wrong with our or not, we recveived a brand new unit, they simply didn't replace the bulb and ship it back.

If this keeps going i hope some kinda other warranty will be available, like it guaranteed will not fail before the 1000 hours or you ll get a new one :D
Usually its 500 hours or 90 days whatever happens first.. Something like that, i dunno what it is for the themescene h30...

Greetz Lars

Originally posted by SGOne
Just got my H30 from Dell today. It's 2 weeks earlier than what they predicted. Unfortunately, it has the old firmware (c04). I filled out one of Optoma's RMA forms and emailed it in to them. Hope they reply by tomorrow so I can send the projector out ASAP.

They say not to send the accessories with the projector so I plan on removing the remote, the adapter, the cables, and the paperwork. Should I keep the power cord also? I wouldn't want them to send the projector back to me without a power cord since it's not a standard type like those used for PC's.

I guess I should be glad I cancelled my original order or I would have probably got your projector. They haven't shipped my order yet, so hopefully it will have the new firmware. I wonder where they found your PJ, I doubt Optoma would be shipping out ones without the update.

Originally posted by Larsage
If this keeps going i hope some kinda other warranty will be available, like it guaranteed will not fail before the 1000 hours or you ll get a new one :D
Usually its 500 hours or 90 days whatever happens first.. Something like that, i dunno what it is for the themescene h30...

Greetz Lars

It's not going to happen, but I can't see any reason why a bulb rated at 2000 hours shouldn't be warrantied to last at least half that long. They are probably the most expensive part in the PJ, I think it's kind of rediculous.

Originally posted by HiHoStevo
A little off target, but is the "Orbit" mode turned on by default on the iScan Pro?

Indidvidual in the H30 thread with a new projector is running through a Pro and talks about his image moving around.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I don't remember which way it actually ships. There's an internal jumper labeled, I think, "ABI" (for Anti-BurnIn). If you just move this jumper to the alternate position the 'orbit' mode will toggle.

- Dale Adams

"Like i got a 4:3 tv and always just used letterbox or panscan, but so much as i understand is i always missed 1/3. I better set it to 16:9 and use the 16:9 squeeze my tv offers..
I really would like a 4:3 screen, but so far as i have read i would need another lens for the additional squeeze..(or project at the bottom).
PLease tell me if i got this right "


Greetz, You got a total understanding of what's happening.

Many people have 4.3 TV's that don't do the squeeze, they're forced to use a DVD in 4.3 mode.

The H30 and the new firmware will compress to anamorphic but just with the 16.9 aspects at the bottom of the chip like it's always done. The firmware just opened up a 4.3 800X600 aspect also. To make use of 800X600 w/4.3 screen you'll have to understand when you view 16.9 correctly it will have to be at the bottom of the screen/chip.

You can set the DVD player to 4.3 letterbox but this isn't the recommended way for anamorphic movies. Another way to understand it is if you set the player to 4.3 everything is now Letterbox format not Anamorphic Enchanced for widescreen TV's.

About calibrations at Optoma. In the factory in California they use Colorfacts 6500 among other technology to tune in a 6500k NTSC grayscale. Colorfacts is a great calibration tool. The projectors are tuned in the service mode. Users can use Avia to calibration differents signals in the user menu's. The H30 remembers settings for any signal you throw at it.

Well pre-mature bulb failure is something that happens with all Digital PJ's to a certain extent [ most makes and models have had this happen so it is not inclusive of just the H30 ] . Consider of all the posters here that have an H30 only a small handful have had the bulb die early on . Now this is never good news for any PJ but at least of the ones that have died have been within the warranty period [ which is actually good news since that means the faulty ones should be discovered early on and be replaced by Optoma ] . I would be very shocked to see the pre-mature bulb failure rate of the H30 increase more than any other Digital PJ [ I am sure it falls right in line with the averages of most other units ] . This is a new model PJ and has only been available for a few months so buying at this point still makes you an 'early adopter' and just as with any other new product there are always things to take into consideration . I can tell you that buying any form of projector will have certain failure rates involved .

--- Jason

THnx Tom,
Glad i finally grasp whats goin on..
I think i ll make an adjustable screen then in the future with a black thing i can pull over the top of the screen for DVD's en without it for 4:3 viewing..

Greetz Lars

Originally posted by DaGamePimp
--- The H30 does not Auto detect the signal as being Anamorphic and do the Squeeze itself in 4:3 mode [ unless this has been added with the c05 firmware ] .
----------------------- Jason

Okay. sorry if it wasn't clear in my previous posts, but I believe that's exactly what the H30's doing with the current firmware (detecting the anamorphic). I don't remember how it was previously, but using 4:3 on both the DVD player and the H30 results in a proper widescreen image in the center of the display. Since using the bottom of the chip is better (according to Wing), 16:9 is the better way to go, but you're getting the same resolution. In both cases the image is the same height and width.
Since the DVD only has a streched image on it, it has to be compressed to be properly displayed.

I'm going to try and come up with a chart of all settings today as the combinations are becoming endless. ;)

MikeSRC, I still deciding whether i should use a 4:3 or 16:9 screen. I think i can make up my mind once reading your chart. Look forward to it. THX in advance.

Thanks Mike, don't forget HDTV and the Window Aspect. Wing was saying something about the zoom being made better to eliminate black bars for 2.35 aspect movies.

I hope they're done with my projector today, which means I'll get it back tomorrow. It at least looks good for getting it back by the weekend.

The zoom increments are about 5% now. The first step's useful, but after that you lose too much picture and picture quality IMO.

For those who have mentioned PAL, sorry but I don't have a PAL disc or player to test that.

I didn't get to do much last night after all, so I still haven't checked S-video or HD.

Wow!
Lots went on last night, some of you guys need to get some sleep :)
You had me scared with the whole image in the center with the 4:3 screen. As long as I can shoot the image to the bottom of the screen I can basically use a black felt pull over like Larsage, thats what I had already decided on anyways. I thought at one point you were saying it didn't shoot to the bottom of the screen at all for 16:9, that would have sucked. I haven't got my Dell yet, ship date is before 4-30-04. Hope I get the new firmware too, rather wait and get it late than have to ship it back in.
All these bad bulb stories are concerning me as well. Originally it was just Mike, but it seems a lot more people have been reporting them lately, I guess time will tell.

Mike,
I for one am curious about the S-Video results, that would be great.
Also you guys mentioned setting your DVD player to 16:9 or 4:3? You mean a setting on the actual player?
I have a Sony DVPNC600 5 disc changer. I never noticed it having an option like this. (Didn't really look) Of course I have been using a 36" direct view all this time so probably wasn't an issue.
Do I need to invest in a new DVD player for this PJ? Any recommended disc changer units if I do need a new one?
I plan on just keeping this unit unless I am missing out on something.
Thanks.

I'm with you hikarate. I dug out the manual for my 5 month old Onkyo changer last night cause I didn't remember any settings like the 4:3 and 16:9 in there either. They were all there and I learned some things by playing around with them. I'd be surprised if your Sony doesn't have it, you have to be able to tell a DVD player what you have hooked up to it for a display. I read an article last night- something to the effect of "anamorphic for dummies" and that helped quite a bit as well. I better stop right here or the experts will roll their eyes at me (if they haven't a dozen times already) for not having a clear grasp of even this concept.

As I learn more from you great folks about deinterlacers and scalers- it will be interesting to see if the Onkyo changer I have has a decent deinterlacer in it or if it will be better to feed 480i to the s-video of the H30 and let it do the magic. I did a lengthy search to find out whos deinterlacer Onkyo uses with no results. Oh well- I won't be replacing a 5 month old unit no matter what..

Anyway- I'm just ultra pleased that I will now be able to have a large 4:3 image/screen and the widescreen image won't be way up by the ceiling which I feared would be the deal breaker...

Cheers and thanks again!!

Panic Room (Superbit ver) last night on my modded Momitsu>H30>Panamorph>0.8 Gray Luma...was awesome! Thats a great movie for seeing how your setup handles dark scenes. The H30 is great...

From will at optoma canada:
"The projector has been repaired. Since the new firmware has not been officially released, we have to wait for the new firmware if you want it to be upgraded this time, or we will just ship it back today, and have the firmware upgraded next time.

Regards.

Will"

What now?
jeeez, maaaaannnnn....

I don't have my H30 yet, but I'm going to take a stab at explaining the different aspect ratio settings and why 480 lines with dvd player set to 4:3 may not be equal to 480 lines with the dvd player set to 16:9.

First some definitions and then I'll go over some settings combinations.

Letterbox DVD - the 'black bars' are actually part of the video image stored on the DVD, taking away
from the 480 available lines. for a 1.78:1 movie only 360 lines are used for the
video, the other 120 are used for the black bars

Anamorphic DVD - the video image uses the entire 480 lines (note that depending on aspect ratio,
this may still include 'black bars' )

DVD player 4:3 mode - the dvd player gives output designed for a 4:3 display. for letterbox and 4:3
DVDs the image is sent as it is recorded. For anamorphic DVDs the DVD player uses
its own internal scaler to generate the black bars. The 480 lines stored on the DVD
are scaled down to use the middle 360 lines of the image sent to the display.

DVD player 16:9 mode - the dvd player gives output designed for a 16:9 display. anamorphic DVDs
are sent using all 480 lines stored on the DVD. For letterbox and 4:3 DVDs the
player will either send them as is (relying on the display to 'zoom', 'stretch', or
'squeeze' as necessary) or scale the image to fit using its own internal scaler
('zooming' in on letterbox DVDs to make the 360 lines of video use the entire 480 or
centering the 4:3 image in the middle of the 16:9)

Now for some combinations:

Anamorphic DVD / DVD player 16:9 / projector 16:9 -
This is the ideal scenario for watching an anamorphic DVD. The DVD player is sending all 480 lines found on the DVD to the projector. The projector thinks it is getting a 16:9 image so it displays the image using 480(or 450) lines on the DLP chip. All available DVD resolution is used.

Anamorphic DVD / DVD player 16:9 / projector 4:3 - The DVD player is sending all 480 lines found on the DVD to the projector. The projector thinks it is getting a 4:3 image so it scales the image and displays it using all 600 lines on the DLP chip(this assumes the new firmware). All available DVD resolution is used, but the picture is stretched vertically so everyone looks tall and skinny.

Anamorphic DVD / DVD player 4:3 / projector 16:9 - The DVD player scales the 480 lines found on the DVD to use the middle 360. The projector thinks it is getting a 16:9 image so it displays the image using 480(or 450) lines on the DLP chip. The picture gets "squeezed" twice, once by the DVD player and once by the projector, so the picture is compressed vertically and everyone looks short and fat.

Anamorphic DVD / DVD player 4:3 / projector 4:3 - The DVD player scales the 480 lines found on the DVD to use the middle 360. The projector thinks it is getting a 4:3 image so it scales the image and displays it using all 600 lines on the DLP chip(this assumes the new firmware). The picture appears in the correct aspect ratio, but quality will likely have been degraded due to the double scaling (480 lines reduced to 360 by the DVD player and then back up to 480 by the projector) The DVD will still be the same size and the projector will still be using 480 lines to display it just like in the 16:9/16:9 case, however the projector is only getting 360 lines from the DVD player.

If the degradation in picture quality isn't noticeable to you or the positioning of the 16:9 image on a 4:3 screen is highly important then the 4:3/4:3 combo will give you the correct aspect ratio and same size as the 16:9/16:9 configuration. However, the 16:9/16:9 should yield a better picture (regardless of the optics issue with the H30).

I can comment on settings combinations with non-anamorphic DVDs but that is a little trickier as it depends more on what scaling features are available on your DVD player.

Kevin

Good stuff Kevin... thanks for that! It's all becoming as clear as an unmudded lake...

Welcome!

Good info Kevin
Thanks.
I basically want to watch 16:9 at the bottom of the screen (Prefer top but that aint happening) and 4:3 material at 800X600 (New firmware allows this).
As long as I can do these 2 things I'm happy.

This projector will do this right?

Also, Tom was trying to decide if a 4:3 or 16:9 screen would be better. Basically what am I losing by having a 4:3 screen? Can't I run the projector as 16:9 and have the best of both worlds on the 4:3 screen? Only thing missing I know of is the border at the top of the 16:9 image because it is displayed at the bottom.
Is there something else I am missing out on because I have a 4:3 screen?
Thanks guys.

Thanks for the excellent (and accurate) explanation, Kevin. Sorry if I added to the confusion previously. It's been years since I've used a 4:3 display with a DVD player. :)

I basically want to watch 16:9 at the bottom of the screen (Prefer top but that aint happening) and 4:3 material at 800X600 (New firmware allows this).
This projector will do this right?


Yes, it will. A 16:9 input will display at the bottom of your 4:3 screen, no matter how the projector's mounted.

There was a post [now a few pages back] from someone asking about the HT1000 in comparison to the H30 that hasn't received any replies.

I too would be interested in opinions with regard to the relative PQ and overall value of the two PJs. I currently have an H30 on order. Even though it is quite a bit more expensive the HT1000 offer is very tempting.

Hi guys...I know I'm diverging a little here, but I am closely following this thread to determine if the H30 is right for me. I demo'd an X1 and the rainbows are driving me crazy. I believe the 4x, 6 segment wheel of the H30 will be a huge improvement, to the point that I will not see them, or at least find them very tolerable.

Anyhow, my main question: (drum roll...)
I love the way PS2 console looks when hooked to the X1 through the S-Video port. Might be the Faroudja or whatever, no idea, it just looks great.
Any experience from folks here playing PS2 on the H30? What input are you using? I guess Xbox doesn't count because XBOX output most games at 480p, while PS2 does 480i for most games... (some newer PS2 titles do have the 480p option now though)

My mix is 70% ps2, 30% DVD. So I am really interested in getting good quality with the console. If not, this is a deal breaker. be honest!

-G

Hey gnolivos,

I have a PS2 and will be hooking it up through S-Video. I can answer your question in a month or so!
Man that is sad... :(

Originally posted by MikeSRC
Yes, it will. A 16:9 input will display at the bottom of your 4:3 screen, no matter how the projector's mounted.

Thanks for repeating yourself Mike. It is really nerve racking not having the PJ. I get spooked easily, thanks for reassuring me.

nirvana_av ,
--- If you read back to the beginning of this thread you will see many comments from Tom about the HT1000 compared to the H30 . The HT1000 is obviously the better PJ but I think Tom said he likes some qualities of the H30 better . I for one would certainly go for the HT1000 if the price difference was a non-issue and that deal that AVS has going is Fantastic !

________________

gnolivos ,
--- tough call on that one , I have seen both the SP4800 and the H30 fed via S-Video from a PS2 console and while the SP4800(X1) might have been very slightly better the H30 did a fine job . The scaler in the X1 is fantastic , there is no doubt there but for the slight difference and the added Image quality of the H30 for movies I think you would be happier with the H30 overall [ but if gaming is your thing then you may not feel the need for the added expense of the H30 ] .
--- Hope that helps a bit [ very honest opinion from a HardCore gamer ;) ] .
_____________________

---------- Jason

Working on a chart, but a quick note to S-video users: It does use the full 800 X 600 resolution for a 4:3 source when the H30's set to Native 4:3. "Window" only appears to be useful with a non-anamorphic LB disk.