San Francisco, CA - Comcast [Text View] - Page 22

cgould

02-17-05, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by davisdog
just back up about 15 posts...

That's because both Ch 7 and 707 where labeled as "KGO" in the guide so it got confused...As of 2 days ago 707 is now called DKGO in the guide so just reset you recordings and you shouldnt see the problem anymore...

5/705 are still both called KPIX but they should have 705 changed shortly

Only on some headends apparently, rest of us still have KGO-707, not fixed.
Maybe those fixed, didn't also have the KPIX/CBS bug in addition? Glad that fix is coming too..

one q:
did Comcast ever send out a "message" to the affected STB's? Is it possible for them to target messages to just a specific headend?
While I appreciate the fix, since it means other recordings may ALSO get affected, you'd think they would notify their customers of such changes...

Tivo would send messages about upcoming schedule changes, or even POSSIBILITY of conflicts for some items, like the NBC/ABC 2-minute time shifting of Friends and such...
and would also notify each time there was a lineup change, eg cable channel got moved or deleted. We had time to act & fix scheduled recordings (if even necessary.) I didn't need to go to an expert online forum for support :)

So far the only messages I've gotten were totally bogus stuff about Seattle changes... sigh.

tivoyahoo

02-17-05, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
Does anyone think it is more than a coincidence that the Mercury News ran that article mentioning the freeze bug a few weeks ago, and the Bay Area is one of the first couple of markets to get the new firmware (9.15) that fixes that bug?

Apparently Comcast responds to the Mercury News and bad PR. Any chance that the Merc would run an article on the Giants & A's in HD this season on FSN HD, pointing out that a good chunk of Comcast subscribers will be missing out due to the InHD2 channel assisgnment?

walk

02-17-05, 05:41 PM

By poor FM reception, I mean, it was poor reception, they just didn't care to setup their antenna(e) correctly.

It's actually quite a shame to lose FM, since in the North Bay it's very hard to get good reception, and not all radio stations are on the internet (and may not ever be - there's a whole host of legal and licensing reasons why one radio station wouldn't want to or even be allowed to "broadcast", via internet, in another station's market).

neoprufrok

02-17-05, 06:59 PM

Originally posted by AVWH
Since we're paying a whopping $10/month, what's the refund gonna be? 30 cents for each "lost day"?? ;) That's not even worth a phone call for the inconvenience.

Actually, the $10/month fee is reasonable, IMO, even if the HD-DVR still has bugs, when the alternative is a $1000 box from Tivo that won't even record SD, just HD.

I'm so glad I waited for a single box to provide the dual HD tuner and recorder, instead of earlier versions that would have required multiple boxes kludged together to give most of the functionality the 6412 has (and still wouldn't have recorded HD, until the Tivo box materialized) .

I agree with you on this. While there are some minor bugs here and there - the fact remains that for the price of the Tivo subscription, I have an HD DVR with two tuners that can be turned in easily if something goes wrong or if a new box comes out.

For Tivo - I'd have to pay the 700 (maybe 600) for the HD Tivo, and then if they upgraded it - I'd have to pay extra to replace the box.

I think its a win for people like me who don't mind the slight lack of usability given the huge positive in convenience and cost.

wco81

02-17-05, 07:56 PM

I'd have to bump up to a different tier to get the DVR. So it's far more than $10 for a lot of people.

wareagle

02-17-05, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by cgould
So far the only messages I've gotten were totally bogus stuff about Seattle changes... sigh.

Interesting, since no one in Seattle with the 6412 gets ANY messages..

Posted by our Microsoft employee lurker, who lives in the Bay Area --

"The reason you don't see messages on the 6412 with MSTV is that TVG implemented a proprietary messaging scheme instead of the one implemented by Motorola. We support the standard Motorola one. Funny side note is that Bay Area subscribers have gotten messages about Comcast jobs in NJ and KOMO in WA but we're here in the bay area. I guess there are issues with message targeting... We've worked out a solution that is agreeable to Comcast and you may start seeing messages on your MSTV box very soon."

That was posted 1/10/2005.

cgould

02-17-05, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by cgould
Only on some headends apparently, rest of us still have KGO-707, not fixed.
Maybe those fixed, didn't also have the KPIX/CBS bug in addition? Glad that fix is coming too..

...

Update:

Foster City now has DKGO(707), HBOHD(730), SZHDw (734,Starz)... should be fixed.
DKGO and SZHDw show up in the "HD Category", but HBOHD still does not!
I didn't lose my recording series, but that's probably because it was already defaulted to "KGO" (sd ch7)

KPIX (705, CBS) and SHOw (736,showtimehd) still have the same names, and are subject to the bug. Tonight's already got reverted again.
KPIX and SHOw also still do not appear in the HD category.

PS I'm in zip 94404. Can't find my MCA codes right now. Thanks Sonoma...

ldivinag

02-17-05, 10:13 PM

mine recorded LOST in SD last nite... even though i have setup the series recording with 707. i checked it afterwards and it has changed to 7....

now every night before turning off everything, i have to check the guide to make sure the next day's recording show each channel in the 700's...

grrrrrrrrr

SonomaSearcher

02-17-05, 10:21 PM

Originally posted by ldivinag
now every night before turning off everything, i have to check the guide to make sure the next day's recording show each channel in the 700's...
Doesn't matter if you check the night before. It could still revert to an analog recording during the day before the night of the scheduled recording.

If your 707 has been renamed to "DKGO", however, the problem is fixed. No need to check the guide the night before or at any time.

SonomaSearcher

02-17-05, 10:22 PM

730 and 736 have been renamed to HBOHD and SHOHD here. 736 shows up in the HD menu, but last time I checked, 730 is still missing.

cyberbri

02-17-05, 10:25 PM

On Sunday, mine recorded Desperate Housewives on channel 7, but recorded Lost last night on 707. Both of these were set ahead of time too.

I'll have to keep an eye on this and make sure it records the correct channels.

SonomaSearcher

02-17-05, 10:26 PM

If some of your HD channels still have the same name as their analog/SD counterparts, please post : which channel numbers still have non-unique names; your city; and your zip code.

Also, if you can, post the MCA numbers for your 6412. You'll find them in the Configuration in the Cable Box Setup menu.

davisdog

02-17-05, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by tivoyahoo
Apparently Comcast responds to the Mercury News and bad PR. Any chance that the Merc would run an article on the Giants & A's in HD this season on FSN HD, pointing out that a good chunk of Comcast subscribers will be missing out due to the InHD2 channel assisgnment?

tivoyahoo,

I would suggest you email the Mercury News Reporter who wrote todays article about the "bug"...Terese Poletti, tpoletti@mercurynews.com...to see if she'd write an article on it...She sure doesnt seem to lose any sleep over hammering comcast.

ps..for those that don't get a hard copy of the Mercury...you really missed out on this one, the online version doesnt do the article justice

They had huge (8") graphic "Bug" on the cover of the business section to poke fun at Comcast ...It's a giant red ant, that was eating a TV and the title was in 1in lettering (bold) which said "COMCAST AND ITS BUG"

AVWH

02-17-05, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by wco81
I'd have to bump up to a different tier to get the DVR. So it's far more than $10 for a lot of people.

Even if you have to add a tier and pay an extra $30 or $40/month - that's 1/20 or 1/30 what the HD Tivo costs - and you get extra channels for the difference.

If you don't want/need HBO or ANY premium channels, then I'd guess you don't really care to have HD either - so the price may not even be the issue.

cyberbri

02-17-05, 11:53 PM

For us, adding HD means $5 for the equipment rental. It's $10 to get an HD DVR instead. So we were going to get HD anyway, so it's only an extra $5 a month, essentially.

Yeah, if you don't have HD anyway, it's more than that to upgrade. But why have an HDTV with no HD channels to watch?

russwong

02-18-05, 12:04 AM

5.1 not in place on OTA or comcast, not getting any dialog. Anyone else?

russwong

02-18-05, 12:17 AM

It's working now... missed the first intro part... someday this will be all smooth.

mds54

02-18-05, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
If some of your HD channels still have the same name as their analog/SD counterparts, please post : which channel numbers still have non-unique names; your city; and your zip code.
Also, if you can, post the MCA numbers for your 6412. You'll find them in the Configuration in the Cable Box Setup menu.

Thanks for helping out on this, SonomaSearcher!

City: San Jose (South)
Zip: 95111
MCA#:0-4, 1-8192, 2-16505, 3-33451
Firmware: 09.15
Non-unique HD channel names: KPIX
Channel designations not appearing on the HD menu: KPIX, SHOw, HBOHD

Poochie

02-18-05, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
If some of your HD channels still have the same name as their analog/SD counterparts, please post : which channel numbers still have non-unique names; your city; and your zip code. Also, if you can, post the MCA numbers for your 6412. You'll find them in the Configuration in the Cable Box Setup menu.

Channel: KPIX
City: Sunnyvale
ZIP: 94086
MCA: 0-4, 1-8192, 2-16505, 3-33457

Also, HBOHD does not show up under the "HD program listings", even though it's called HBOHD. But I don't subscribe to HBO (or HBOHD) so maybe that's why, or maybe not. But the biggie in Sunnyvale would be the KPIX issue.

Also, I'm on firmware 09.15, software 71.44-1203 if that matters.

heywood jablomy

02-18-05, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by russwong
5.1 not in place on OTA or comcast, not getting any dialog. Anyone else?

This happened on Directv also - center channel didn't come on until after the first commercial break. (and I know this is the Comcast thread - speaking of which, why are there cable and OTA threads for most DMAs, but no satellite threads? Am I blind, or just stupid?)

keenan

02-18-05, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by heywood jablomy
speaking of which, why are there cable and OTA threads for most DMAs, but no satellite threads? Am I blind, or just stupid?)

I made it really big in case you are vision impaired, can't help you if you really are stupid though...:) :D :p

Satellite feeds all come from the same place, up, up, in the sky, it's DirecTV!!!

Doc Tonic

02-18-05, 03:03 AM

Anyone know if the JVC HM-DH40000 HD-VCR works well with the new 6412 via DVI (5c compliant?)

kmitche

02-18-05, 09:17 AM

Channel: KPIX
City: South San Francisco
ZIP: 94080

Non-unique channel name(s) - KPIX

HDTV Listing does not include: 705, 725 and 730

MCA: 0-4, 1-8192, 2-16388, 3-33703

Firmware 09.15
Software 71.44-1203

Thanks

scatmandoo

02-18-05, 10:44 AM

Originally posted by greeno
I agree, that a HTPC has VERY low WAF. A DVR is the best bet. I suggested it because you asked for options that did not include a DVR.

Best,
jeff

Jeff,

A DVR would be fine if it didn't require an STB. Ideally, it would be TiVo for HDTV (high WAF). However, considering TiVo is being a slow follower these days, are there other DVRs that have similar user interfaces to TiVo, but have a digital/HD tuner and excellent HD recording quality (that would still be able to get all these channels that I am not paying for)?

Thanks again!

elicross

02-18-05, 12:27 PM

Originally posted by Doc Tonic
Anyone know if the JVC HM-DH40000 HD-VCR works well with the new 6412 via DVI (5c compliant?)

No, there aren't any recorders that work via DVI. The JVC 40k gets its HD (or digital) signals over firewire only. I have the 6200, and the firewire connection to the DVHS deck works fine.

lloydus

02-18-05, 12:40 PM

I am using the Motorola 6412 from Comcast.

A couple of questions:

1) How do I find out what software and firmware versions I have?
2) I am using the component cables supplied by comcast to connect to my vizio 42" plasma tv. Is it worth paying $50 or so for a DVI connection?
3) With the limited HD recording of the 6412 is there any way to get the recordings out of the 6412 and into a pc hard drive?

And a comment:
- My recording of "lost" on 2/16/05 on ch 707 was not recorded in hdtv either
- I also have the HBOHD problems i.e. it was telling me I had to subscribe but it seemed to fix itself after a day.

heywood jablomy

02-18-05, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by keenan
I made it really big in case you are vision impaired, can't help you if you really are stupid though...:) :D :p

Satellite feeds all come from the same place, up, up, in the sky, it's DirecTV!!!

OK - I got it - so your saying satellite discussion doesn't really fit into the "Local HDTV info" category - I guess once Directv starts HD locals later this year, there'll have to be some new threads started?

keenan

02-18-05, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by heywood jablomy
OK - I got it - so your saying satellite discussion doesn't really fit into the "Local HDTV info" category - I guess once Directv starts HD locals later this year, there'll have to be some new threads started?

Yes...probably so because you'll have the individual stations feeds and all their problems to discuss, or not, hopefully..:)

Barovelli

02-18-05, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by lloydus
I am using the Motorola 6412 from Comcast.

A couple of questions:

1) How do I find out what software and firmware versions I have?

Either in the diagnostics (power off, hit SELECT in less than two seconds) or in the menu/setup/cable box/see configuration.

2) I am using the component cables supplied by comcast to connect to my vizio 42" plasma tv. Is it worth paying $50 or so for a DVI connection?

Ouch! that's a rip. Get one with a return policy and try. My DVI equipped set is not big enough for me to notice any difference.

jschefdog

02-18-05, 04:42 PM

I just got a 6412 DVR a couple of days ago in Sunnyvale. I'm wondering what HDTV channels I should be receiving. I'm not getting all the HDTV channels listed on the Comcast web site after using the "What's in my area" link.

Some of the listed channels show up in the guide, but when I try to view them I get a "Channel will be available momentarily" message (KPIX, KTVU, Discovery HD).

Others such as InHD and InHD2 are not even listed. When I signed up they said if I also signed up for the digital package (which I did) I would get these as well. I am getting ESPN, but this seems to be the only HD channel in the digital package that works.

Can someone else in Sunnyvale let me know if this is normal, or do I need to get Comcast to fix it.

Poochie

02-18-05, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by jschefdog
I just got a 6412 DVR a couple of days ago in Sunnyvale. I'm wondering what HDTV channels I should be receiving. I'm not getting all the HDTV channels listed on the Comcast web site after using the "What's in my area" link.

Some of the listed channels show up in the guide, but when I try to view them I get a "Channel will be available momentarily" message (KPIX, KTVU, Discovery HD).

Others such as InHD and InHD2 are not even listed. When I signed up they said if I also signed up for the digital package (which I did) I would get these as well. I am getting ESPN, but this seems to be the only HD channel in the digital package that works.

Can someone else in Sunnyvale let me know if this is normal, or do I need to get Comcast to fix it.

Im in Sunnyvale (zip code 94086), and my box gets the following in HD... KTVU (Fox), KNTV (NBC), KPIX (CBS), KGO (ABC), KQED (PBS), Discovery HD, ESPN HD, and HBO HD. As I don't subscribe to HBO I don't get HBO HD, but it did work during a free trial a while ago.

It sounds like a few things ... first, my area of Sunnyvale (and yours too probably) is still on the 550MHz network, so we miss out on InHD1/2, other premium HD channels, KRON, FS Bay Area, etc. Second, it sounds like there's a technical problem causing KPIX, KTVU, and Discovery HD to not come to your house. Others might be better at helping you diagnose the problem, but you should be able to get these.

jschefdog

02-18-05, 07:30 PM

Originally posted by Poochie
Im in Sunnyvale (zip code 94086), and my box gets the following in HD... KTVU (Fox), KNTV (NBC), KPIX (CBS), KGO (ABC), KQED (PBS), Discovery HD, ESPN HD, and HBO HD.
Thanks for the info Poochie. I am in zip code 94087 so probably very close. I see all those stations in the guide as well, but KTVU, KPIX and Discovery have no picture. I don't have HBO either so was not expecting it to work. I will give Comcast a call to find out why I'm not getting them all.

Bummer about InHD and InHD2 not being available, that was the main reason I upgraded to the digital package ($5 more per month). I will bitch about this since the account rep who signed me up said I would get them. The web site also says that these are included if I enter my zip code. Has anyone heard about plans to upgrade the cable in Sunnyvale so that these will work?

dailowai

02-19-05, 01:45 AM

Is 5.1 still down? I'm not getting 5.1 from any channels, just wondering if its just me or everyone. Thanks.

keenan

02-19-05, 03:11 AM

Originally posted by dailowai
Is 5.1 still down? I'm not getting 5.1 from any channels, just wondering if its just me or everyone. Thanks.

What channels? I started watching Third Watch and it wasn't in 5.1 so I went to DirecTV and it was perfect. Was it just KNTV, or were all the normal 5.1 channels with Comcast off?

jasonander

02-19-05, 04:43 AM

It looks like in Mountain View DKGO is now known as KGOHD. KPIX still hasn't been renamed. I tried emailing Comcast about the KPIX problem and got their generic response that the proper department is aware of this and will automatically update the units as soon as there is a fix, even though I emailed them the same thing a week ago and got the same response, and we know that they now have the fix and are not sending it out "as soon as it is available". I responded to this more than 24 hours ago calling the CSR on his lie and haven't heard anything back. :( Maybe that reporter from the Mercury would love hearing about more bugs to give Comcast more bad PR so that they will actually do something about their problems. At least it appears that all the series recordings I set up again for DKGO will still record channel 707.

greeno

02-19-05, 11:42 AM

The DVR is the STB. The TiVo HD box, in my understanding, is pricey. Bugs aside, I think most are happy with the Comcast DVR. 2 tuners, can record HD and only cost $15/month.

To get QAM without comcast's box will require an additional STB (I understand what you meant now). So there's no ideal solution. It's all about tradeoff's.

Best,
jeff
Originally posted by scatmandoo
Jeff,

A DVR would be fine if it didn't require an STB. Ideally, it would be TiVo for HDTV (high WAF). However, considering TiVo is being a slow follower these days, are there other DVRs that have similar user interfaces to TiVo, but have a digital/HD tuner and excellent HD recording quality (that would still be able to get all these channels that I am not paying for)?

Thanks again!

dailowai

02-19-05, 03:10 PM

Seems like all the channels for me, HBO, INHD, etc channels which are almost always 5.1

JasonQG

02-19-05, 03:46 PM

I just checked, and we still get FM in Santa Rosa. If that's bandwidth that could be used for HDTV on our crappy 550 MHz system, I'm pissed.

JasonQG

02-19-05, 05:04 PM

For anyone going to the Santa Rosa City Council meeting on Tuesday (Feb. 22), here's the section of the agenda about Comcast and the cable franchise:
http://ci.santa-rosa.ca.us/City_Hall/City_Council/2005/050222pdf/Item11.2.pdf

If you can make it, please do so. I'm going to try, but I might be late due to work. It starts at 4:00 at City Hall (100 Santa Rosa Ave.)

gwichman

02-19-05, 07:37 PM

In sunnyvale does anyone get INHD and INHD2?

I never have but my brother up in redwood city does as does a friend out in Pleasanton.

avekevin

02-19-05, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by JasonQG
For anyone going to the Santa Rosa City Council meeting on Tuesday (Feb. 22), here's the section of the agenda about Comcast and the cable franchise:
http://ci.santa-rosa.ca.us/City_Hall/City_Council/2005/050222pdf/Item11.2.pdf

If you can make it, please do so. I'm going to try, but I might be late due to work. It starts at 4:00 at City Hall (100 Santa Rosa Ave.)

Grrrrr...that document infuriates me!

JasonQG

02-19-05, 08:48 PM

Originally posted by avekevin
Grrrrr...that document infuriates me! Why? I'm mostly okay with it. They recognize the need to upgrade, and they're not making too many weird demands.

keenan

02-19-05, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by JasonQG
Why? I'm mostly okay with it. They recognize the need to upgrade, and they're not making too many weird demands.

So am I. If there is nothing strange and unusual that is not mentioned in that document, and from the way it reads it doesn't sound like there is, then I think the City should go after Comcast with both barrels.

It's sounds like to me, Comcast wants to reap the revenue from HSI while not having to have to upgrade the system. Comcast is stalling, that part about not having the authority and then the "new" agreement lacking details sounds exactly like a stall tactic to me. Comcast probably wants to just sit on their butts until a full digital conversion can be done, which ain't gonna happen for years and years.

I would still like to see Comcast's side of the story.

avekevin

02-19-05, 09:13 PM

Originally posted by JasonQG
Why? I'm mostly okay with it. They recognize the need to upgrade, and they're not making too many weird demands.

There are a few reasons.

1) The city council implicitly admits that in 2002 and 2003 they agreed to negotiate the use of existing bandwidth without any provisions to upgrade the overall system to higher bandwidth. They only seem to be requesting a system upgrade now.

2) The focus of the document is 100% on HSI. I would bet that HSI could be occomplished within the 550Mhz system if the city didn't reserve some of that bandwidth.

3) The city (perhaps only publically) still refuses to admit that they are at least partly culpable here.

4) I would understand the need for the city-mandated local channels if they had content on them more than 5% of the time.

5) What's up with this charge back of $120k? Sunk costs, move on, get this thing resolved!

Edit to #5 - Especially when you admit earlier in the document that the I-Net has saved the city a significant amount of money.

My $.02.

Kevin

keenan

02-19-05, 09:36 PM

I get the impression that the people responsible for cable franchise agreements for Santa Rosa were/are rather ignorant of the technology then and now. It cost them $122,000 to find that out and now Comcast has been "caught" being less than forthcoming with what technology was/is available and in the meantime budgets have been closed and the window for an upgrade in this area is now towards the bottom of the Comcast list.

How long ago was Petaluma upgraded?

To be honest, based somewhat on this document, I really don't see anything in the way of improved cable service in Santa Rosa coming for quite awhile...

avekevin

02-19-05, 09:52 PM

Originally posted by keenan
To be honest, based somewhat on this document, I really don't see anything in the way of improved cable service in Santa Rosa coming for quite awhile...

I agree. :(

davisdog

02-19-05, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by avekevin
Grrrrr...that document infuriates me!

I'm with Jason and Keenan, I think the Santa Rosa City Council is doing the residents a great service by putting out this report (regardless of past history)...Hopefully they follow through on this (comcast could make this happen in 6 months if they wanted to)....I would love it if Saratoga would do the same

AVWH

02-20-05, 12:59 AM

I recorded the Chinese New Year's parade earlier this evening on 702. I just discovered it had no sound for the 1st 7 or 8 minutes - anyone else with the same experience?

///MD

02-20-05, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by keenan
What channels? I started watching Third Watch and it wasn't in 5.1 so I went to DirecTV and it was perfect. Was it just KNTV, or were all the normal 5.1 channels with Comcast off?

I was watching in Cupertino last night for the first time with my receiver and speakers set up, and I also was not able to find a channel with 5.1, I checked the networks, HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, everything. Was frustrated for a while because I thought I set something up wrong, but after troubleshooting, could not find a single problem.

Anyone in Cupertino area getting 5.1? What channels should it be expected on?

JasonQG

02-20-05, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by gwichman
In sunnyvale does anyone get INHD and INHD2?

I never have but my brother up in redwood city does as does a friend out in Pleasanton. Sunnyvale is one of the areas that hasn't been upgraded from 550 MHz. Welcome to the club.

Originally posted by AVWH
I recorded the Chinese New Year's parade earlier this evening on 702. I just discovered it had no sound for the 1st 7 or 8 minutes - anyone else with the same experience? Yeah, KTVU was having sound issues. First, there was no sound, then it was just stereo, and even when they finally got the 5.1 going, the synch was off and there was KGO-like popping. The picture was good throughout, though.

keenan

02-20-05, 02:12 PM

Article from Sunday's Press Democrat

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050220/NEWS/502200305/1033/NEWS01
Where's Our Broadband?

Where's Our Broadband?
SR demanding Comcast explain why Internet service upgrades delayed

Sunday, February 20, 2005

By KEVIN McCALLUM
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

Santa Rosa remains a broadband backwater compared to much of the Bay Area, and frustrated city officials want cable TV giant Comcast to explain why.

In a sternly worded memo to the company, the city is demanding an answer to when long-delayed upgrades will be completed and an end to technical disagreements that have cost the city more than $100,000.

A promised showdown Tuesday with the City Council brings to a head years of strained relations and could even lead to reopening the decade-old franchise deal under which Comcast is allowed to operate in the city.

"Comcast has to respond to our concerns. They owe the city an explanation," said Marc Richardson, assistant city manager.

The explanation demanded by the city is far more than technical. It goes to the heart of the city's frustration over what it considers broken promises and miscommunication that could compromise its communications network and have put residents behind the rest of the Bay Area in hooking into the global communications network.

All other Sonoma County cities and most other Bay Area communities have a high-capacity broadband cable network that can easily support such services as high-speed Internet access, video-on-demand and telephony.

Santa Rosa, however, the fifth-largest city in the Bay Area, remains tied to a limited system that Comcast has yet to fully upgrade.

Comcast promised a year ago that the city's 66,000 cable customers would have Internet access by the beginning of 2005. Last month, the company said service would be complete by April, and it continues to say it will come close to that deadline.

The company currently offers the $45-a-month service to about 25,000 customers.

Comcast spokesman Andrew Johnson said company representatives will attend Tuesday's meeting and are putting together a written response to the city's concerns.

"We're currently reviewing the separate and distinct and complex issues that city staff has bundled together under one agenda item," Johnson said.

The council's demand for answers is the latest round in an 18-month series of increasingly tense negotiations between the city and Comcast Cable Communications, Inc., the cable provider for Sonoma County since 2002.

The council's intervention comes just as Comcast has resolved some technical issues and now says it will be able to provide Internet service to its remaining customers within 60 days.

City officials remain skeptical.

"We don't have anything in writing that assures us Comcast is going to do what they say they are going to do," Richardson said.

Comcast has said the rollout has been delayed by negotiations with the city over how the upgrades will affect bandwidth set aside on high-speed cable that is the backbone of the city's communication's system. It is used for broadcasts of City Council meetings, public access cable channels, Internet access for schools and non-emergency communication networks for the Police and Fire departments.

The city has stood firm in its demand that Comcast's roll out of high-speed Internet access must not interfere with or limit the current or future capabilities of the network, which the city would one day like to expand for such uses as monitoring traffic flow.

When the negotiations hit an impasse last month, council members decided to step in, Councilman John Sawyer said.

"When council members received a number of e-mails from the public and this issue raised its head again, the council decided it was time to have a discussion about this," Sawyer said.

The central question the council and Richardson want answered is why the city has not been upgraded to the megahertz capability offered by 84 percent of Comcast's systems in the Bay Area and 82 percent of cable systems in the nation.

"For some reason we never reached enough of a priority where they were willing to improve our system," Richardson said. "The issue is, 'Why don't we get the same responsiveness as everyone else?' "

Comcast's formal response was not scheduled to be completed until Monday, and Johnson declined to comment further until it is released.

The upgrade issue is just one of several questions Richardson said the council wants answered.

Others include what the current schedule of the high-speed rollout is and how much the city should be reimbursed for work it did revamping a portion of the city's communication pipeline to accommodate Comcast's concerns.

The most severe step that the council could take is to reopen the 15-year cable franchise agreement signed by Comcast's predecessor, CableOne, in 1996.

Doing so would give the city far greater leverage to negotiate with Comcast, Richardson said. "It would force them to talk to us about the inadequacies of our situation."

If both sides failed to reach an agreement in 90 days, the two sides would go to arbitration, he said.

The council hopes to avoid that conflict.

"I trust that now that the technology has changed, some of the roadblocks are out of the way, and we will be able to move forward," Sawyer said.

In addition to a schedule, the city wants reimbursement for the work it has put into making the now apparently unnecessary switch to a separate network. To date, that total stands at $122,558, according to an invoice Richardson prepared for the council.

Comcast's about-face on the new technology infuriated Laurie Cirivello, executive director of the city's Community Media Center. She felt the company had tried to bully the city into giving up bandwidth because it was cheaper than investing in the technology that would allow both systems to work simultaneously.

"They thought we were going to be a pushover," she said.

The company denies this. Johnson said the only reason Comcast didn't implement the technology sooner was because it was unproven.

"It was a technology that at that time was being designed and tested in the lab," he said. "We needed to test it in real live field conditions, not just theories."

Regardless of reasons for the delay, Sawyer said he hopes the apparent ill-feeling between the two sides can be resolved.

"I think that probably the truth lies somewhere between the two parties," he said. "I don't think there are any angels or devils working around this table."

dailowai

02-20-05, 08:06 PM

I started to get 5.1 after I power cycled my box.

avekevin

02-20-05, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by keenan
The council's intervention comes just as Comcast has resolved some technical issues and now says it will be able to provide Internet service to its remaining customers within 60 days.

This is exactly what I was worried about. It sounds as if Comcast is shuffling programming to fit HSI into the existing 550Mhz network. This can only mean two things:

1) Less programming for cable TV customers
2) Further delay in the system upgrade

Rather than forcing Comcast to do the job right, they are stealing from Peter to pay Paul. The solution all along should have been (and still needs to be) to get the whole network upgraded so that services can be increased on all fronts.

Kevin

keenan

02-20-05, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by avekevin
This is exactly what I was worried about. It sounds as if Comcast is shuffling programming to fit HSI into the existing 550Mhz network. This can only mean two things:

1) Less programming for cable TV customers
2) Further delay in the system upgrade

Rather than forcing Comcast to do the job right, they are stealing from Peter to pay Paul. The solution all along should have been (and still needs to be) to get the whole network upgraded so that services can be increased on all fronts.

Kevin

I'm not sure that the HSI really takes up that much room, but apparently it takes enough to be causing an issue. And we noted by the exclusion of SHO-HD when they added Fox-HD that there is no more room period.

At this point I don't think there are any plans to upgrade this system at all, rather that Comcast is just waiting until a full digital conversion can be done instead of adding any more bandwidth.

The question I want answered is the one Richardson posed,

"The central question the council and Richardson want answered is why the city has not been upgraded to the megahertz capability offered by 84 percent of Comcast's systems in the Bay Area and 82 percent of cable systems in the nation."

It would be interesting to see what Santa Rosa and all these cities, the other 16%, have in common as to why they have not been upgraded and/or have no plans to be upgraded.

JasonQG

02-20-05, 09:18 PM

I didn't know we were the 5th largest city in the bay area. Why are we treated like we don't matter?

SonomaSearcher

02-20-05, 09:34 PM

If I were you guys, I'd also like to know what this technology is that was previously "unproven." Anyone have a clue?

P.S. Petaluma was upgraded to 750 Mhz six years ago, more or less.

keenan

02-20-05, 10:00 PM

Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
If I were you guys, I'd also like to know what this technology is that was previously "unproven." Anyone have a clue?

P.S. Petaluma was upgraded to 750 Mhz six years ago, more or less.

Whatever it is I bet it will translate into buggy or problem ridden internet service. For me DSL works just fine.

Six years ago, so we must have an ancient system here. Possibly our system is being saved as a historical monument for cable TV. :D :p

keenan

02-20-05, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by JasonQG
I didn't know we were the 5th largest city in the bay area. Why are we treated like we don't matter?

Close to 250,000 people...

JasonQG

02-20-05, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by keenan
Whatever it is I bet it will translate into buggy or problem ridden internet service. For me DSL works just fine.Yeah, the highest-rated ISP in the country is located in Santa Rosa. I don't see why anybody cares about Comcast HSI.

Originally posted by keenan
Close to 250,000 people... According to the 2000 census, it's 147,595.

keenan

02-20-05, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by JasonQG
Yeah, the highest-rated ISP in the country is located in Santa Rosa. I don't see why anybody cares about Comcast HSI.

According to the 2000 census, it's 147,595.

That was 5 years ago, and real estate has exploded in this area, still a lot of people...

Doc Tonic

02-20-05, 10:58 PM

The main problem is there is no cable competition for comcast to get their act together. I was really hoping Voom would take off to give comcast some HD competition....too bad they also are floundering.

fender4645

02-21-05, 01:33 AM

Originally posted by keenan
I'm not sure that the HSI really takes up that much room, but apparently it takes enough to be causing an issue.
Well, if you break it down Comcast offers 3Mb in most locations (4 in some areas). Considering a single HD channel is roughly between 9 and 15Mb, that would seem like not that much. However a television stream is the same for every household whereas an Internet stream is different for everyone. I doubt they would allocate 3Mb for each household consistantly so I'm curious exactly how much bandwidth each node is given. Any ideas?

keenan

02-21-05, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by fender4645
Well, if you break it down Comcast offers 3Mb in most locations (4 in some areas). Considering a single HD channel is roughly between 9 and 15Mb, that would seem like not that much. However a television stream is the same for every household whereas an Internet stream is different for everyone. I doubt they would allocate 3Mb for each household consistantly so I'm curious exactly how much bandwidth each node is given. Any ideas?

I don't know, but that has always been the knock on cable internet, the more it's accessed on a node the more clogged and slower it gets. Only so much BW available on the node and then eventually routed through the plant to the net itself. DSL, OTOH is a direct independent line to the switch which in turn is probably connected to the T1 or T3 pipe.

avekevin

02-21-05, 02:37 AM

HSI is typically a shared 30Mbit/sec on the local loop.

Kevin

keenan

02-21-05, 02:55 AM

Originally posted by avekevin
HSI is typically a shared 30Mbit/sec on the local loop.

Kevin

Meaning everyone on a node shares that 30Mbit/sec?

MikeSM

02-21-05, 03:12 AM

Originally posted by keenan
Meaning everyone on a node shares that 30Mbit/sec?

It depends. Generally, if you have a reasonable amount of fiber in a system (that is the node size is down around 300-500 homes or so), then you shouldn't need more than one 6 Mhz channel for HSI, unless you have very high penetration, and then you'd take a 2nd channel for data. Generally you can actually get by with combining a single 30 mbps to a few nodes until penetration gets high.

This is because the CMTS can drive 30 Mbps per 6 Mhz channel (if you are using 64 QAM modulation), and you can just keep adding CMTS line cards feeding seperate lasers to each node so that each 30 mbps feed is driving a single node.

Now, some older systems may have one downstream laser driving 3-4 nodes, so without adding lasers, then you have to take more channels to overcome the fact that these 3-4 nodes are all seeing the same signal. Generally people don't do this, particularly in 550 systems because adding more lasers is relatively inexpensive.

Now, if the homes per node count is high, say 1200 homes/node, that has the same effect the previous problem. You are sharing a lot more and that needs more downstream bandwidth to compensate. To fix this problem (and you'd like to fix it so you had enough bandwidth for VOD), you'd have to add more nodes to the system, and that is typically done during a rebuild, but it could be done seperately, where the 3-4 trunks that normally from a node are split and driven individually. This needs either more fiber strands (typically not a problem), or use of DWDM where you use multiple colors ona single strand of fiber.

Upstream is a completely different issue and is usually the area where MSO's run out of spectrum first, but that's not the issue here.

Either way, you shouldn't need a lot of spectrum for HSI unless somebody didn't do a good job with the plant design, and that would typically put it high on the list for a rebuild at least by the way Comcast does things.

Does anyone know the homes passed per node in the Santa Rosa system?

Thanks,
Mike

keenan

02-21-05, 03:18 AM

Originally posted by MikeSM

Does anyone know the homes passed per node in the Santa Rosa system?

Thanks,
Mike

I don't, but I hope to find out Tuesday...

So, if 30 homes are DLing at a 1Mbit rate at the same time then the system is maxed...?

fender4645

02-21-05, 03:24 AM

Nice explanation, Mike. One question: what exactly is a "laser"?

fender4645

02-21-05, 04:42 AM

fitzwest

02-21-05, 11:37 AM

Laser - Light Amplified by the Simulated Emission of Radiation

For fiber these are normally Infra-Red spectrum. They typically have a very narrow frequency band. Each laser would use a different frequency if they were sharing a fiber or they could use a different frequency if they were multiplexed on the same fiber.

Side note:

Einstein was one of the first people to suggest the possibility of a laser existing. His A and B radiation co-efficients explained how a laser could work. It wasn't until the Fifties that someone was able to make a Maser. (Microwave based system).

keenan

02-21-05, 11:39 AM

DSL Reports has a lot of info on this stuff. As Mike mentioned above it looks like each node has the capacity of 30-40Mbps which is shared among all subscribers on the node. And it counts on the fact that not all subs will be using it at the same time, for instance, 50 subs on a 500 sub node could not max their BW at 3Mbps at the same time. While you may want the 3Mbps Cable HSI connection, you don't want your neighbors to have it as well. The more using the slower is will get. This is fundamentally different from DSL.

Q: Sharing bandwidth - how many users per node?
http://www.dslreports.com/faq/7135
broadband » Adelphia High Speed Internet» 3 Technical Questions

There's some good links at the bottom of the above page. There's a PDF about a report done by the ACLU on the different architectures. The below pic is from it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/HFCarch.gif

j_buckingham80

02-21-05, 11:48 AM

That's the really interesting thing about Comcast HSI, out here in Tracy, a lot of people in my neighborhood went with satellite because Comcast was slow in building out the connections. As a result, Comcast HSI was clocking in at greater than 5 Mbps.

I recently switched over to DSL because I can get every channel I want OTA, so I cancelled both and saved more than $30/mo. DSL at its fastest is only about 1.5 Mbps. And while one could ask, isn't the 3.5 Mbps worth it, the fact is it's hard to find a server other than CNET's bandwidth meter that's really allowing you to access it at a speed greater than 1 Mbps anyway (YMMV).

JasonQG

02-21-05, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by j_buckingham80
DSL at its fastest is only about 1.5 Mbps. That's not a hard limit. Looking at Sonic.net's site, you can get 6 mbps for $50.

avekevin

02-21-05, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by keenan
I don't, but I hope to find out Tuesday...

So, if 30 homes are DLing at a 1Mbit rate at the same time then the system is maxed...?

It's more complicated that this. Traffic in the local loop is on a shared collision domain. As the number of subscribers increases, available bandwidth goes down quite fast.

Cable HSI essentially uses hub technology in the local loop.

Kevin

Edit: I have read that, or order to achieve consistent 4Mbit/sec service, many cable companies are going to node sizes of 150-250 homes when they rebuild.

keenan

02-21-05, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by JasonQG
That's not a hard limit. Looking at Sonic.net's site, you can get 6 mbps for $50.

It's amazing what you can do with those 2 skinny little copper wires..:p

keenan

02-21-05, 02:34 PM

keenan

02-21-05, 02:37 PM

You Santa Rosa guys, any specific questions that we want to try and get answers for at the Council meeting tomorrow?

MikeSM

02-21-05, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by avekevin
It's more complicated that this. Traffic in the local loop is on a shared collision domain. As the number of subscribers increases, available bandwidth goes down quite fast.

Cable HSI essentially uses hub technology in the local loop.

Kevin

Edit: I have read that, or order to achieve consistent 4Mbit/sec service, many cable companies are going to node sizes of 150-250 homes when they rebuild.

Not quite. DOCSIS uses a very good MAC layer that scales well from an almost contention based algorithm at low load (delievering low latency) to almost fully polled at high load (giving high efficiency at the expense of latency increases). DOCSIS systems when properly engineered are very good at avoiding congestion collapse. You can let it get bad enough to fall apart, but it's way more effective than something like ethernet.

Yes, people are sharing the capacity in the cable loop. They don't in DSL, but distance really affects performance since the DSL network is passive whereas cable is active. And none of this really matters, since you are accessing a shared network, the Internet. In the end, it's all about system engineering, and deliver high performance to users over the whole network path.

Small node sizes only reduce the amount of downstream channels, though it really helps in the reverse. Reducing the amount of noise coming in from the homes in the node by reducing the amount of homes increases net usable spectrum, though the reverse lasers in some cases add a lot of noise too. So if you end up combining everything back in the headend, a small node system can actually result in worse reverse performance. For example, if you have a single 1200 home node, fed by one laser, you'll have better performance in the reverse than 4 300 home nodes that are combined in the headend, since you'll have the same plant noise but 4 laser noise sources instead of 1. If you don't combine, and have a CMTS reciever for each node, you'll be in the best shape of all of course! My point is it's all about engineering the system, not just one component.

A well engineered cable system will smoke a DSL system, because peak bandwidth is really what most people care about. With the exception of P2P applications, you generally aren't running the loop at 100% duty cycle. Cable has the edge here, and even on a DSL system if lots of people were running at 100% their regional network (that feeds the DSLAM's in DSL) would get overloaded.

This is borne out in most every test conducted - Cable providers generally deliver much higher effective performance than DSL providers. Part of it is the higher peak rates, but also the regional networks are much better engineered in the cable world for reasons I won't go into here.

There is a reason why cable holds 2/3 market share in the US Broadband market compared to DSL at 1/3, even though Cable's prices are generally significantly higher than DSL's. It simply works better.

There are examples of lousy cable systems botching service, as there are examples of outstanding DSL providers too, but generally, Cable works better.

Thanks,
Mike

PS The real reason you need small node sizes is VOD. HSI doesn't need as much data capacity compared to VOD which is pushing a lot of bits at high duty cycle. Trying to deploy an extensive VOD system in a large node size system is very hard to do well.

avekevin

02-21-05, 04:51 PM

Mike,

Thanks for the additional detail. How do most cable providers get around issue of traffic visiability for everyone on the local loop? One of the downfalls of a non-switched network is that a sniffer hooked up to any home port would allow you to see the traffic from your entire node. Do the cable modem boxes utilize some sort of encryption (DES)?

Kevin

tivoyahoo

02-21-05, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by keenan
The question I want answered is the one Richardson posed,

"The central question the council and Richardson want answered is why the city has not been upgraded to the megahertz capability offered by 84 percent of Comcast's systems in the Bay Area and 82 percent of cable systems in the nation."

It would be interesting to see what Santa Rosa and all these cities, the other 16%, have in common as to why they have not been upgraded and/or have no plans to be upgraded.

Where are these 84% and 82% statistics coming from? Are those numbers provided by Comcast? or did the council do a study?

If 84% of the systems are upgraded in the Bay Area, then what does that translate to as far as the % of subsribers as a whole. In other words, what other large cities/systems are not upgraded in the Bay Area? Or is this 16% (other than Santa Rosa) primarily smaller systems?

Wasn't there a quote in this forum some time ago from a Comcast executive that 98% of Comcast's systems nationwide were upgraded? Doesn't that make Santa Rosa's case stronger? In other words, how does a large city get stuck in the bottom 2% (not the bottom 16%) of Comcast's systems?

MikeSM

02-21-05, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by avekevin
Mike,

Thanks for the additional detail. How do most cable providers get around issue of traffic visiability for everyone on the local loop? One of the downfalls of a non-switched network is that a sniffer hooked up to any home port would allow you to see the traffic from your entire node. Do the cable modem boxes utilize some sort of encryption (DES)?

Kevin

The folks who built DOCSIS understood this issue too. The standard DOSCIS profile has 56 bit DES encryption on the wire, with configurable key cycling. It's not a substitute for SSL, but prevents sniffing from being much of an issue.

Note because the way the modems work, you'd need a customized chipset to be able to see all the packets on the wire - the standard chips don't have a promiscuous mode, though they do recieve all LAN broadcasts, which you will see on your PC's ethernet interface if you ever ran a sniffer there.

Thanks,
Mike

keenan

02-21-05, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by tivoyahoo
Where are these 84% and 82% statistics coming from? Are those numbers provided by Comcast? or did the council do a study?

If 84% of the systems are upgraded in the Bay Area, then what does that translate to as far as the % of subsribers as a whole. In other words, what other large cities/systems are not upgraded in the Bay Area? Or is this 16% (other than Santa Rosa) primarily smaller systems?

Wasn't there a quote in this forum some time ago from a Comcast executive that 98% of Comcast's systems nationwide were upgraded? Doesn't that make Santa Rosa's case stronger? In other words, how does a large city get stuck in the bottom 2% (not the bottom 16%) of Comcast's systems?

The numbers came from Comcast themselves via articles in local papers(SF Chronicle). The 98% number came from Comcast in Philadelphia as the number nationwide. There are about 12-14 cities in the bay area that make up the 16%. Among them are Vallejo, Antioch...can't remember them all, but they are listed further back in this thread. They came up during the turn-on of KTVU-HD, these cities were the ones that lost SHO-HD because they do not have sufficient capacity to carry both channels.

tivoyahoo

02-21-05, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by tivoyahoo
Wasn't there a quote in this forum some time ago from a Comcast executive that 98% of Comcast's systems nationwide were upgraded?

Searched and found the 98% quote from the President here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=4287232#post4287232).

keenan

02-21-05, 05:33 PM

The 16% list, these cities are 550Mhz

Antioch
Bay Point
Benicia
Castro Valley
Hayward
Los Gatos
Milpitas
Pittsburg
San Leandro
San Lorenzo
Santa Rosa
Saratoga
Vallejo

tivoyahoo

02-21-05, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by keenan
The 16% list, these cities are 550Mhz

Antioch
Bay Point
Benicia
Castro Valley
Hayward
Los Gatos
Milpitas
Pittsburg
San Leandro
San Lorenzo
Santa Rosa
Saratoga
Vallejo

Thanks for the list.
Add Sunnyvale and aren't there some peninsula cities as well?
So if you take that no. of cities divided by the total no. of comcast bay area systems, it is 16%? or is 16% based on the overall bay area subscriber count instead of the system count?

davisdog

02-21-05, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by tivoyahoo
Thanks for the list.
Add Sunnyvale and aren't there some peninsula cities as well?
So if you take that no. of cities divided by the total no. of comcast bay area systems, it is 16%? or is 16% based on the overall bay area subscriber count instead of the system count?

I believe the % is subscriber based (or potential subsciber).

and yes, much of Sunnyvale is 550Mhz (there are some areas on a different system that is 750Mhz)

russwong

02-22-05, 12:32 AM

What's with the 5.1 sound problems lately all the time?? CSI Miami is having the problem today now... no voice audio, just background sound

russwong

02-22-05, 01:26 AM

Originally posted by j_buckingham80
DSL at its fastest is only about 1.5 Mbps. And while one could ask, isn't the 3.5 Mbps worth it, the fact is it's hard to find a server other than CNET's bandwidth meter that's really allowing you to access it at a speed greater than 1 Mbps anyway (YMMV).

DSL speeds are based on your distance from either the CO (central office) or a RT (remote terminal) and what speeds they cap you at. Because I'm relatively close to a RT (approx 4,000 feet) and I have the higher speed package, my DSL modem synchs at the full 6 megs/608k upload/download. After you account for TCP/IP overhead, I get approx 5 Megs down and 512k upload, which is pretty damn sweet.

Yes there aren't tons of places that can feed 5 megs, but I have my own website/email/etc so the upload speeds are beter then cable and my downloads are better with out any contention with other people in my area.

I love my speeds, that's for sure!

Russ

keenan

02-22-05, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by russwong
What's with the 5.1 sound problems lately all the time?? CSI Miami is having the problem today now... no voice audio, just background sound

Great, I recorded this episode, is the whole thing screwed up? Or just the beginning?

Looks like it's just the old "forgot to flip the swich during the intro" deal, after the commercial break it was playing correctly.

NorCal

02-22-05, 11:31 AM

Originally posted by keenan
Great, I recorded this episode, is the whole thing screwed up? Or just the beginning?

Looks like it's just the old "forgot to flip the swich during the intro" deal, after the commercial break it was playing correctly.

The same thing happened during last Thursday's CSI. The opening scene was all washed out, just background noises. Then after the first commerical break it came back to full sound.

russwong

02-22-05, 12:14 PM

What's annoying is that I think the show is fine and I'm sitting their watching it and enjoying the pseudo surround sound and then all of a sudden I'm running around to find the station that is playing the audio properly... what also sucks is, those first minutes is the basis for the whole show!

As a side note, did people notice that the Target and Apple commercials were HD or at least full digital 16:9 commercials? I think they were the same on Thursday, but just thought I'd point it out.

Russ

cgould

02-22-05, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by NorCal
The same thing happened during last Thursday's CSI. The opening scene was all washed out, just background noises. Then after the first commerical break it came back to full sound.

Yep, noticed CSI thurs on my recording as well. All I can say is, thank goodness for CC!
(though I wish I don't have to turn the dang box OFF to change the Captioning setting, but...)
I leave CC on all the time anyway since I can't hear over my toddler etc.
It was almost better w/ 2-ch DD, I should have left my default settings alone :)

If it happens again, I'll try changing my Cable Box/Audio setups, to be Stereo instead of Matrix...
eg, maybe downgrade it back to mixed/analog, instead of DD5.1. Easier than resetting the box.

russwong

02-22-05, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by cgould
If it happens again, I'll try changing my Cable Box/Audio setups, to be Stereo instead of Matrix...
eg, maybe downgrade it back to mixed/analog, instead of DD5.1. Easier than resetting the box.

I don't think it's the cable box, because when it happened, I switched to OTA and it also had the non 5.1 broadcast. I think someone is just forgetting to turn on the 5.1 broadcast.

keenan

02-22-05, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by russwong
I don't think it's the cable box, because when it happened, I switched to OTA and it also had the non 5.1 broadcast. I think someone is just forgetting to turn on the 5.1 broadcast.

No, it's not the box, it's the station, KPIX. Last week I ended up watching CSI on DirecTV from KCBS-LA and IIRC, it was perfect.

QZ1

02-22-05, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by SonomaSearcher
If some of your HD channels still have the same name as their analog/SD counterparts, please post
SonomaSearcher,

Have you been able to contact anyone in the corporate office, so that this gets fixed nation-wide?

I don't know why a corporate memo can't be sent to all local offices, telling them to make sure each channel has a unique label.

fender4645

02-23-05, 12:30 AM

I'm curious to know how the Santa Rosa City Counsel meeting went tonight. For those that went, please let us know if you think it was productive or not. It might give some other 16%'s some hope.

JasonQG

02-23-05, 01:39 AM

The meeting wasn't very encouraging. I think the city did a decent job. They may not have handled this well in the past, but it appears they're doing about all they can at this stage, even if they don't all fully understand the situation still. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be much they can really do until the agreement expires in 2010. They're "reopening" negotiations, but they can't really force Comcast into anything until the contract expires.

There was a Comcast VP there, and he was full of hot air. His only response to the issue of upgrading was the usual hand-waving about going to all digital, but we all know that won't happen for a long, long time and by then 550 MHz still won't be enough. Basically, it'll be at least another five years of that. How did such an incompetent company get to be so big?

fender4645

02-23-05, 02:10 AM

That's a bummer. Were you guys able to voice your opinions at all?

keenan

02-23-05, 03:54 AM

Yeah, I got up there and babbled a little. The council members pretty much asked the questions that needed to be asked, although I got the impression they are not really up on the technology. The Comcast VP that was there was not the guy we needed to be there. His primary focus was on the "Floating Reopener" clause, there's no doubt in my mind he's a lawyer in reality and he kept talking about the financial considerations Comcast has made to Santa Rosa, which basically was just a bargaining tactic to counter the request by the city for reimbursement of expenses incurred. It turns out those expenses were incurred more or less because of Comcast's request for a BW give-back from the city. As it happens, now Comcast says they don't need the BW give-back, after the city has spent the money to determine why Comcast needed it in the first place. The report by Buske indicated that there was no reason that Comcast needed the BW to do what they wanted to originally. The whole thing was just a bunch of crap.

The Comcast VP was pretty much clueless about the technical issues as far as when things would change. Definitely no VOD in Santa Rosa or any plans to do so in the foreseeable future. No set dates for anything to change other than HSI being city-wide by March.

The problem with all this is that the franchise agreement is a 10 yr one, which is the norm, and it doesn't expire until 2010. The original agreement provided for nothing less than a 550MHz system, well, that what we have and that's probably what we are going to be stuck with. This, IMO, was a major flaw in the original agreement although in 2000 did we really know that the additional BW would be needed. Comcast's response to why no upgrade has been made to 750-860MHz is that isn't economically prudent at this point in time due to new technology that was around the bend that would provide a full spectrum of services using the 550MHz current system. Of course there was no timeline when this would happen, not even a wild ass guess. My guess is that this approach is the one that is being taken with all the other 550MHz systems in the bay area, so don't hold your breath for any more channels or services until there is a sea change in the technology to provide for these services on low BW systems.

Re-opening the agreement really isn't going to accomplish much as Comcast is providing what was asked for in the original agreement, so it can be said they have held up their part of the bargain, we just didn't asked for enough in the original agreement. Plus, the chance of a new provider coming in is practically nil as they would have to purchase the head end equipment from Comcast or build their own. Not likely.

The council members voted 6 for and one abstention to invoke the floating reopener clause as they are not happy at all with the Comcast response today. The Comcast VP really made an ass out of himself when he referred to the people who actually handle the nuts and bolts of the negotiations as "kids", as in "send the kids back to the negotiation table". That riled the council members, especially the former mayor, Martini who didn't mince any words when responding to the remark, along with a general disgust with the whole non-committal, non-enlightening Comcast presentation.

Bottom line, nothing's going to change here for awhile and IMO, Comcast is simply waiting until a full digital solution can be applied, and we all know that is not going to happen soon.

fender4645

02-23-05, 04:18 AM

Thanks for the synopsis, Jim. Did you (or any of the council members) ask the "VP" point blank how Comcast can charge Santa Rosa residents the same amount money as the rest of the Bay Area for fewer channels? It may not seem like much now but the number of HD customers is going increase by a lot before the "new technology" appears.

As for the original agreement, while it sounds like Santa Rosa may have dropped the ball and didn't ask for enough, I'm curious as to why my area (Moraga-Lafayette-Orinda) received a 750MHz upgrade in (I believe) 2000 and Santa Rosa didn't? Granted this was AT&T and not Comcast that performed the upgrade, but why would one area get more bandwidth then another when all of the upgrades occurred at around the same time? When was Santa Rosa upgraded?

keenan

02-23-05, 04:33 AM

I did ask point blank about that but did not get an answer. And the reason you got 750MHz is because ATT did the upgrade. It appears to me that Comcast is not doing any more upgrades, instead waiting for technology to solve the problem, and that franchises they took over are stuck with whatever they had when they were purchased, example being Santa Rosa where the 550 MHZ upgrade was done by a previous carrier. Comcast in a general sense has really not done any major infrastructure work here, they basically took over what was already in place.

avekevin

02-23-05, 04:47 AM

How unfortunate. I think it's time to look at the dish.

On another note, I just received my PC-based HD tuner. It's very odd, but I am getting KNTV-HD on two physical channels, but they both map to 11-1. Is anyone else seeing this?

Kevin

MikeSM

02-23-05, 04:53 AM

Keenan, this makes sense. If Santa Rosa was happy with 550 back in 2000, plus all the special goodies for traffic signals etc..., then Comcast did uphold their part of the deal. My bet as to why it didn't get the 750 upgardes when the nearby areas did was the "special" requirements that they had to support required special engineering so it got put at the end of the line. Before this got budgeted HQ told folks to stop upgrading because of the all-digital architecture being proposed, so now the local system has no money to do an 860 rebuild and everyone is stuck.

I will tell you that the digital simulcast is targetted for this year, but not in 550 systems as they don't have the spectrum to accomodate it. I am sure the guy they sent was the VP for Government affairs, and therefore not familar with any engineering issues nor could address them. Maybe you could suggest to the city that they request the chief engineer for the SF Bay Area for comcast come to the next meeting if for no other reason than to answer technical questions? The local systems folks are quite good technically and will give you the straight scoop if asked directly, even in such a forum.

I will try and talk to my HQ contacts at Comcast and suggest the local GM get his technical folks involved in these discussions, but my bet is the locals don't have the capital anymore to do the 860 rebuilds anymore.

Did you find out the node size for Santa Rosa? It sounds like the info about them needing more spectrum for HSI was in fact bogus. The sad thing is that some engineering person probably had a good idea about repurposing some of the spectrum but that it got garbled through the Government affairs folks. You won't be able to get good answers until the engineers get directly involved in the discussions. The GA VP's tend resist this as these discussions are their domain, but if the local GM decides to get everyone involved, I assure you you'll get good data.

Perhaps your best bet is to call up or write the GM and politely ask him if he couldn't make some engineering staff available for the next meeting, as it could go a long way to improving relations in your franchise. It may be nothing is going to get done because of funding issues, but at least you'll get the info from the horses' mouth.

Thanks,
Mike

Mikef5

02-23-05, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by MikeSM

I will tell you that the digital simulcast is targetted for this year, but not in 550 systems as they don't have the spectrum to accomodate it. I am sure the guy they sent was the VP for Government affairs, and therefore not familar with any engineering issues nor could address them. Maybe you could suggest to the city that they request the chief engineer for the SF Bay Area for comcast come to the next meeting if for no other reason than to answer technical questions? The local systems folks are quite good technically and will give you the straight scoop if asked directly, even in such a forum.

I will try and talk to my HQ contacts at Comcast and suggest the local GM get his technical folks involved in these discussions, but my bet is the locals don't have the capital anymore to do the 860 rebuilds anymore.

Thanks,
Mike

Just a quick question Mike. What is your source for this information, that the 550 MHz systems will not be doing the digital simulcast ??? If this is indeed a fact then I will be extremely pi**ed and I think it would be time for Mr. Wallock again and I will make a phone call to Mr. Johnson but before that I would like to know if this is fact or what you think will happen ?? The whole purpose of the digital change over is to free up bandwidth and the only systems that need the extra bandwidth are the 550MHz and below systems. So what's the point of doing it if you don't do it in the areas that need it ???

Laters,
Mikef5

keenan

02-23-05, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by MikeSM
Keenan, this makes sense. If Santa Rosa was happy with 550 back in 2000, plus all the special goodies for traffic signals etc..., then Comcast did uphold their part of the deal. My bet as to why it didn't get the 750 upgardes when the nearby areas did was the "special" requirements that they had to support required special engineering so it got put at the end of the line. Before this got budgeted HQ told folks to stop upgrading because of the all-digital architecture being proposed, so now the local system has no money to do an 860 rebuild and everyone is stuck.
Thanks,
Mike

I got the sense that the traffic thing was not really a big issue, since Santa Rosa settled for nothing less than 550 in 2000 I think the problem arised when Comcast wanted to add more services. That is when the issue of the I-Net came up as Comcast wanted that BW. The City wanted to know why so they had the Buske Group do a report. By the time all this was done, Comcast had come up with the tech to provide the services they wanted without needed that I-Net BW. It was just a lot of wasted time and effort. I'm guessing that it was a stall tactic by Comcast to avoid spending capital to take the whole system from 550 to 750-860. I really don't think Santa Rosa has any unusual requirements that are different from any other city in the bay area. The problem here was the low BW. Plus, I'm willing to bet that the other 12-13 550 cities on the list are cities where the system had been upgraded by the previous carrier and Comcast made the business decision to not upgrade but instead to wait for technology to use the 550. So in a sense, 3-5 yrs ago Santa Rosa was SOTA, but now because of that timing we are now low-tech as it were and in a holding pattern waiting for the new tech to come. And I think you are right about the budget money not being there anymore, although I really get the feeling it was never in the cards to begin with. The only budgets that have been working from what I understand are the ones to get apartment structures done, which makes sense business wise, relatively small cost with a potential for a large return.

I will tell you that the digital simulcast is targetted for this year, but not in 550 systems as they don't have the spectrum to accomodate it. I am sure the guy they sent was the VP for Government affairs, and therefore not familar with any engineering issues nor could address them. Maybe you could suggest to the city that they request the chief engineer for the SF Bay Area for comcast come to the next meeting if for no other reason than to answer technical questions? The local systems folks are quite good technically and will give you the straight scoop if asked directly, even in such a forum.

He was, is name was Giles out of San Ramon seemed like a nice enough guy but he was a bit condescending and spoke like the stereotypical lawyer in that he never really gave a solid answer on anything, and that did aggravate the council members. My take on it was that he was basically holding the fort until the tech advances could be brought into play. When asked yes or no questions he was vague on everyone of them.

I do plan to communicate with Richardson and suggest exactly that, to bring the tech people to a meet as the questions the council was asking were more along those lines anyway. To the council's credit, it was more a thing where, we don't really care about the financial back and forths between the city and Comcast right now as that can always be worked out and in fact is being worked out. It was more a "what is is going to take, or what do we have to do to get us where we want to be service wise", and Giles just could not give an answer. IOW, tell us how and when and the monetary issues can be resolved later.

I will try and talk to my HQ contacts at Comcast and suggest the local GM get his technical folks involved in these discussions, but my bet is the locals don't have the capital anymore to do the 860 rebuilds anymore.

That would be great. As I mentioned earlier, in my discussions with the previous service manager for this area, the only money that has and is budgeted is for apartment or multi-family dwellings. Nothing for any major infrastructure.

Did you find out the node size for Santa Rosa? It sounds like the info about them needing more spectrum for HSI was in fact bogus. The sad thing is that some engineering person probably had a good idea about repurposing some of the spectrum but that it got garbled through the Government affairs folks. You won't be able to get good answers until the engineers get directly involved in the discussions. The GA VP's tend resist this as these discussions are their domain, but if the local GM decides to get everyone involved, I assure you you'll get good data.

No I didn't, but given the tone and focus of the meeting it really wasn't going to have much meaning having it brought into the discussion. I think you are absolutely correct about things getting garbled, as there was much discussion about along the lines of "he said, she said" and "this memo indicated this, but that memo indicated that" in regards to the negotiations going back 18-24 mos. In fact the former mayor said he had a sense of deja-vu as all of this was tossed around when he was mayor 3 yrs ago and it appeared to him that nothing has changed to date.

Getting good data is exactly what the council wants, facts and dates, they want to move forward as fast as possible and not get stuck in a legal quagmire. The general consensus was the city did not want to invoke the re-opener clause as it will focus on the "why hasn't it happened" as opposed to looking ahead to the "when will it happen" but the city feels at this point the re-opener is their only recourse to kick-start Comcast into giving some answers. If this can be avoided by a tech group providing answers and dates I'm sure the city would much rather go this route. There's no point in crying about spilt milk, just clean it up and tell me when I get my fresh full glass of milk.

Perhaps your best bet is to call up or write the GM and politely ask him if he couldn't make some engineering staff available for the next meeting, as it could go a long way to improving relations in your franchise. It may be nothing is going to get done because of funding issues, but at least you'll get the info from the horses' mouth.

I plan to do just that, in fact I half expected Andrew Johnson to be at the meeting but I guess he doesn't get involved at this level.

keenan

02-23-05, 01:16 PM

davisdog

02-23-05, 01:34 PM

Mikef5

02-23-05, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by keenan
I'm sure Mike has a better answer, but it's pretty much common industry knowledge that 550 systems do not have the BW to do a digital simulcast. We can't squeeze a fart into these systems now as evidenced by the musical chair channel replacements already.

IMO, Comcast is in a holding pattern waiting for the digital transition and/or getting FCC approval to go all digital on cable systems and in the meantime, they are just holding the cities with these systems at bay until that happens. Which we know isn't going to happen soon.

I'll tell you, one of the times the Comcast VP did have an answer for a direct question was when he was asked about whether there are any plans to bring VOD to Santa Rosa, his answer was "There are no plans to bring VOD to Santa Rosa". Not a date, or a forward looking timetable, just "no plans". The council chamber was quiet after that response. Being that VOD is Comcast's baby, and the fact that it will not be implemented in 550 systems gives you an idea how bad the BW situation is.

Well, the problem with waiting for all digital is How are you going to do it if there isn't enough bandwidth available to make the switch ???? Sounds like a catch 22 situation. You have a way to free up bandwidth but you don't have enough bandwidth to do the switch to free up the bandwidth. Well, I've got a 6 month good deal on my Comcast bill and it seems that after that I'll be looking for a new provider but not before I make as much heart ache for Comcast as they have made for me. I'm going to make some inquiries and see what the real scoop is. It would be so much better if Comcast would just bite the bullet and upgrade all the systems to an equal level, but then again we are not cost effective enough to do that.. :rolleyes:

Laters,
Mikef5

Mikef5

02-23-05, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by davisdog
Mike,

Digitial Simulcast has nothing to do with freeing up bandwidth..It probably takes at least 40Mhz to fully implement...and we know the 550Mhz systems dont have that kind of bandwidth sitting idle

...Its all about making the legacy "analog" channels look better on the Digital STBs by similucasting them on a separate digital slot (the Analog channels are not removed)

The way it was explained to me was they are going to do digital simulcasting to ween all the analog only people to digital and then drop the analog channels to free up the bandwidth that the analog channels take-up. It's sort of a stop gap to get everyone on digital and then get rid of analog. The only way to do it on our system is to just drop analog and go digital, if you need a box to get Comcast's digital channels then Comcast needs to get a box to their legacy subscribers for them to be able to view the old analog channels, which will be broadcasted in digital. This is for only the 550 MHz and below systems, the other systems have plenty of bandwidth to make it work. I'm just getting fed up with the way Comcast is treating the non-upgraded areas and their poor communication to their customers in those areas on what is going to happen with these areas.

Laters,
Mikef5

MikeSM

02-23-05, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by Mikef5
Just a quick question Mike. What is your source for this information, that the 550 MHz systems will not be doing the digital simulcast ??? If this is indeed a fact then I will be extremely pi**ed and I think it would be time for Mr. Wallock again and I will make a phone call to Mr. Johnson but before that I would like to know if this is fact or what you think will happen ?? The whole purpose of the digital change over is to free up bandwidth and the only systems that need the extra bandwidth are the 550MHz and below systems. So what's the point of doing it if you don't do it in the areas that need it ???

Laters,
Mikef5

I have friends back in Philly in senior management. Let's just leave it at that.

The point of digital simulcast isn't to free up bandwidth. I think I've made this point before, digital simulcast sucks up a ton of bandwidth to deliver the same channels you see today - it takes up bandwidth, it doesn't free it.

The reason Comcast wants to do this is to lower the cost of a set top box by about $10-15 by eliminating the analog tuner in the STB. The cost savings will be even greater in the DVR boxes because there won't be an need for 2 MPEG encoders in the box - recording analog programming means the DVR has to do a realtime encode to MPEG, and all the STB's use relatively expensive hardware encoders to do this. Two tuners means not just two analog tuners but also two MPEG encoders. It could save as much as $100 off the cost of a 6412 if it didn't need to process analog anymore. This is a BIG DEAL!

Additionally, the quality of the programming should significantly improve in many markets since the digital signal should be a lot cleaner than you might typically see for analog channels. I live very close to an optical node and I have GREAT analog reception, but if you live near the end of a segment, your picture on something like Foxnews will be much worse than DirecTV's version of Foxnews, which is a competitive factor.

And it will make local ad insertion a lot easier too - no more analog inserts to do - it can all be done digitally.

In short, there are a ton of good reasons for digital simulcast, many that directly affect the bottom line for Comcast, and none of them require removal of any of the analog channels. It's not about spectrum at all. If they don't have enough to do VOD, which is a HUGE priority in Comcast because it so screws the DBS providers, then I guarantee you they won't be doing digital simulcast anytime soon.

Now, in long run, eventually they should get set top boxes that are so cheap they can give them away for every TV in the house, and then they'll work the regulatory and franchise issues for removal of analog. But this is going to take a LONG time.

Also moving to H.264 (MPEG4) coding will save a ton of bandwidth. It's the H.264 conversion that really enables the 550 systems to transition, not because analog will go away, but because they can get much better density in their digital lineup. This requires ALL the existing STB's to be swapped out with new ones that can decode H.264 as well as MPEG2. Once all the boxes are dual capable, they'll kill the MPEG2 SD feeds and move to H.264, and reclaim a ton of bandwith.

I have heard rumours that the new cheaper STB's Comcast is planning to deploy are supposedly going to also be able to decode MPEG4, but they don't have analog tuners in them, so this will likely delay their deployment in 550 areas too.

So if someone tells you they don't need to do a rebuild because of digital technology, this is technically true, but not in the short term. All the surrounding systems that have 750 or 860 plant will have gotten it this year, and once those systems are converted to all digital will they likely go back to the 550 systems and try and convert them in one pass.

Thanks,
Mike

Mikef5

02-23-05, 02:04 PM

Keenan,

Just a quick question. Do you remember the name of the Comcast Rep that was at your franchise meeting ??? When I get a hold of Mr. Johnson I would like to get his response to his rep saying the VOD will not be implemented on the 550 MHz systems and yes it will be finger pointing but they need to get their storys straight or it will come back to bite them in the end.
PM me if you don't want to make his name public.
Laters,
Mikef5

MikeSM

02-23-05, 02:11 PM

BTW, it's this kind of conversation that is why it's helpful for a senior engineer to be present in such a meeting. He can tell you the issues surrounding digital simulcast, H.264 conversion, and VOD needs for bandwidth. The GA VP is just repeating what he thinks he understands, but it's not fair to ask him to comment on the technology issues behind his statements.

Thanks,
Mike

keenan

02-23-05, 02:28 PM

MikeSM

02-23-05, 02:31 PM

BTW, here is an interesting article on H.264 and Comcast's view of it. CED is a great publication if you want to know what's going on in this field.

http://www.cedmagazine.com/ced/2004/0304/03c.htm

Thanks,
Mike

Mikef5

02-23-05, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by MikeSM
BTW, it's this kind of conversation that is why it's helpful for a senior engineer to be present in such a meeting. He can tell you the issues surrounding digital simulcast, H.264 conversion, and VOD needs for bandwidth. The GA VP is just repeating what he thinks he understands, but it's not fair to ask him to comment on the technology issues behind his statements.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike,
The reason this is really ticking me off is my information comes from Mr. Andrew Johnson ( V.P. of Communications for Comcast ) and is not the same information that is being put out by other reps of the company. If they don't want to do the upgrades fine, say so, don't bs around with pie in the sky statements. I have more respect for someone that is straight up with me than for someone that blows smoke up my a**. I just want them to come out with a definitive statement on what they are going to do with these non upgraded systems and what is their plan is on fixing it and when they think it will be done. I don't need dates but a general time frame would be nice. Without good information it is hard to make a decision on whether or not to stay with a company that doesn't give a rat's behind about you or at least that's the impression that I'm getting from them. My rant is not directed at you but at Comcast and their inability to get information out to their customers and their total lack of care for the people of the 550 MHz systems and below.

Laters,
Mikef5

MikeSM

02-23-05, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by Mikef5
Mike,
The reason this is really ticking me off is my information comes from Mr. Andrew Johnson ( V.P. of Communications for Comcast ) and is not the same information that is being put out by other reps of the company. If they don't want to do the upgrades fine, say so, don't bs around with pie in the sky statements. I have more respect for someone that is straight up with me than for someone that blows smoke up my a**. I just want them to come out with a definitive statement on what they are going to do with these non upgraded systems and what is their plan is on fixing it and when they think it will be done. I don't need dates but a general time frame would be nice. Without good information it is hard to make a decision on whether or not to stay with a company that doesn't give a rat's behind about you or at least that's the impression that I'm getting from them. My rant is not directed at you but at Comcast and their inability to get information out to their customers and their total lack of care for the people of the 550 MHz systems and below.

Laters,
Mikef5

You are presuming they know what they are going to do with the systems. I'm not sure they have that all worked out yet. They know some things they won't be doing with them, but I don't think they have a company wide plan done. A lot depends on how well digital simulcast works, and their ability to get new STB's at certain price points. Which direction they will go in what time frame depends on what they can get from various vendors.

Thanks,
Mike

Mikef5

02-23-05, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by MikeSM
You are presuming they know what they are going to do with the systems. I'm not sure they have that all worked out yet. They know some things they won't be doing with them, but I don't think they have a company wide plan done. A lot depends on how well digital simulcast works, and their ability to get new STB's at certain price points. Which direction they will go in what time frame depends on what they can get from various vendors.

Thanks,
Mike

Well, what I presume is that the V.P. of Communications would know what is going to happen because I specifically asked him about this area and what was going to happen in this area not company wide. The statement that VOD would not be implemented on the 550 MHz systems is in direct contrast on what I was told by Mr. Johnson. So which is it ???? Yes ??? No ???
The same thing happened with the roll out of the dvrs. Mr. Johnson said all areas would get the dvrs at the same time but what was put out was the 550 MHz systems would not get them and it wasn't without a lot of emails and public scrutiny that all the areas finally got the dvrs. So it starts again, no VOD for the 550 MHz and below systems. Direct tv and Dish are looking better all the time.

Laters,
Mikef5

keenan

02-23-05, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Mikef5
Keenan,

Just a quick question. Do you remember the name of the Comcast Rep that was at your franchise meeting ??? When I get a hold of Mr. Johnson I would like to get his response to his rep saying the VOD will not be implemented on the 550 MHz systems and yes it will be finger pointing but they need to get their storys straight or it will come back to bite them in the end.
PM me if you don't want to make his name public.
Laters,
Mikef5

It was a public forum and a matter of public record. In fact I recorded it with the Comcast DVR, the first time I ever used our government channel..:D :p

His name is John Giles(sp?) Vice-President Government Affairs, Comcast San Ramon.

The exact quote was when asked about VOD his response was "Not currently planned".

To his credit, he freely admitted that he did not have the answers to specific technical issues, other than the answer about VOD and when HSI would be available citywide which the response was, "The end of March".

My original post implied that the VOD response was for ALL 550 systems. That is not correct in that he was responding to the question as posed by the Santa Rosa City Council in regards to Santa Rosa.

My own pure speculation is that if it isn't happening here with our 550 it probably isn't happening in other 550 systems. Has anyone in other 550 systems been told they will have VOD, with a timetable attached?

davisdog

02-23-05, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by Mikef5
The way it was explained to me was they are going to do digital simulcasting to ween all the analog only people to digital and then drop the analog channels to free up the bandwidth that the analog channels take-up. It's sort of a stop gap to get everyone on digital and then get rid of analog. The only way to do it on our system is to just drop analog and go digital, if you need a box to get Comcast's digital channels then Comcast needs to get a box to their legacy subscribers for them to be able to view the old analog channels, which will be broadcasted in digital. This is for only the 550 MHz and below systems, the other systems have plenty of bandwidth to make it work. I'm just getting fed up with the way Comcast is treating the non-upgraded areas and their poor communication to their customers in those areas on what is going to happen with these areas.

Laters,
Mikef5

Mikef5,

I'd take a different view of this...digital simulcasting makes it easier to DELAY the conversion to all digital (and delay the removal of Analog channels)...Like MikeSM said, getting rid of Analog is going to be hampered by franchise, regulatory, customer and cost issues and will take a LONG time...If you have enough bandwidth then digital simulcast makes it easier to just forget about going through the hassle of getting rid of Analog..just leave it for the legacy customers that want it.

I dont see comcasts pushing of Digital Simulcast as anything but bad news (and smoke/mirrors) for 550Mhz systems. It just pushes us lower down the priority list.

-Steve

keenan

02-23-05, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by MikeSM
You are presuming they know what they are going to do with the systems. I'm not sure they have that all worked out yet. They know some things they won't be doing with them, but I don't think they have a company wide plan done. A lot depends on how well digital simulcast works, and their ability to get new STB's at certain price points. Which direction they will go in what time frame depends on what they can get from various vendors.

Thanks,
Mike

From what I have been able to gather is that they simply don't know when these changes will be made due to impending technology and FCC regulatory issues that need to be resolved. One really cannot fault Comcast for that sort of response. It is unfortunate that 550 systems that were in place when Comcast purchased them, at least ours in Santa Rosa, have been caught in the middle of do we upgrade, or do we wait until technology solves the problem. Given that our contract only requires 550 as a minimum, and the contract is not due for renewal until 2010, added to the fact that as technology permits Comcast is adding services that 550 is capable of, such as the use of HSI without taking back city BW, I think we are stuck with what we have until the industry and/or regulations make having a 550 system a moot point. Sad for us, but it seems to be the reality.

keenan

02-23-05, 03:25 PM

Originally posted by davisdog
Mikef5,

I'd take a different view of this...digital simulcasting makes it easier to DELAY the conversion to all digital (and delay the removal of Analog channels)...Like MikeSM said, getting rid of Analog is going to be hampered by franchise, regulatory, customer and cost issues and will take a LONG time...If you have enough bandwidth then digital simulcast makes it easier to just forget about going through the hassle of getting rid of Analog..just leave it for the legacy customers that want it.

I dont see comcasts pushing of Digital Simulcast as anything but bad news (and smoke/mirrors) for 550Mhz systems. It just pushes us lower down the priority list.

-Steve

Exactly, it makes it easier for Comcast to make more money where they can as opposed to plowing money into 550 system upgrades at a time when the broadcast industry, the FCC and the government can't even come to a decision on when analog will be shut down. Comcast did not get as successful as they are by making poor business decisions.

We got stuck in the middle, plain and simple.

MikeSM

02-23-05, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by keenan
From what I have been able to gather is that they simply don't know when these changes will be made due to impending technology and FCC regulatory issues that need to be resolved. One really cannot fault Comcast for that sort of response. It is unfortunate that 550 systems that were in place when Comcast purchased them, at least ours in Santa Rosa, have been caught in the middle of do we upgrade, or do we wait until technology solves the problem. Given that our contract only requires 550 as a minimum, and the contract is not due for renewal until 2010, added to the fact that as technology permits Comcast is adding services that 550 is capable of, such as the use of HSI without taking back city BW, I think we are stuck with what we have until the industry and/or regulations make having a 550 system a moot point. Sad for us, but it seems to be the reality.

That sounds right me, at least for Santa Rosa. I still think you could get some incremental relief on the HD side if you could get the city to shut off the public access channels. 2 analog channels shut down makes room for 3 new HD channels to be carried. If HD is really what you want, then you can still make significant progress on this front by dealing with the public access issues. I think you'll have more leverage here as Comcast needs to spend no meny to deliver you these new channels.

A lot more people would watch those HD channels than the silly public access programming.

Thanks,
Mike

keenan

02-23-05, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by MikeSM
That sounds right me, at least for Santa Rosa. I still think you could get some incremental relief on the HD side if you could get the city to shut off the public access channels. 2 analog channels shut down makes room for 3 new HD channels to be carried. If HD is really what you want, then you can still make significant progress on this front by dealing with the public access issues. I think you'll have more leverage here as Comcast needs to spend no meny to deliver you these new channels.

A lot more people would watch those HD channels than the silly public access programming.

Thanks,
Mike

Yes, I don't how many other cities have but here we have 4,

listed as,

Community Media Center-69
City View-70
Education Channel-71
OUR Channel-72

I'm not sure if the Education Channel is specific to Santa Rosa or not.

keenan

02-23-05, 04:12 PM

Angry SR council puts heat on Comcast
City reopens cable deal in bid to spur upgrades in Internet service

Wednesday, February 23, 2005

By KEVIN McCALLUM
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

Santa Rosa's City Council voted unanimously Tuesday to reopen its cable TV franchise after skewering Comcast executives and questioning their commitment to delivering such advanced services as high-speed Internet access.

"We are trying very hard to provide our city with a high level of service, and we are being thwarted in doing that," Councilman Mike Martini said.

The council decision, which initiates a process of negotiations and possibly mediation, followed complaints about service and warnings that delays in upgrading the cable system could threaten the vitality of the local economy.

"I don't think you have any understanding of how bad it's been," Councilwoman Janet Condron said.

The city's economic development depends on the best information technology infrastructure possible, she said, and the current 550-megahertz system lags behind many surrounding communities.

Councilman Bob Blanchard agreed Comcast had a history of "dragging its feet" when it came to upgrading its system, and it's something that has "gnawed at the council for several years."

The city's economic growth depends in large part on high-tech professionals moving to the area from other locations, such as Silicon Valley, he said.

"Their livelihoods depend on the highest form of technology that they can possibly get," Blanchard said. "That is just the beginning of where this community is moving toward, and I'm not feeling a sense of certainty and confidence that Comcast is willing to be that partner with the city and the community to deliver that capability."

The council vote followed a presentation by Assistant City Manager Marc Richardson, who said the city and Comcast had failed to reach an agreement over how the cable giant's upgrades will affect the public network, called the Institutional Network, or I-Net.

The I-Net, which runs over Comcast's network, is the backbone of the city's communication's system and includes public access TV channels, Internet access for schools and non-emergency communication networks for the Police and Fire departments.

When Comcast and the city began talking two years ago about rolling out high-speed Internet, Comcast sought to take back some of the city's bandwidth. The goal was to ensure the two systems didn't conflict and to avoid having "people's e-mail ending up in strange places," Richardson said.

Despite the city's belief that software existed to keep the two networks separate and secure, Comcast insisted on switching part of the city's network onto a separate "virtual private network" that later was shown to have been unnecessary, he said.

This work cost more than $122,000, which the city wants to recoup, Richardson said.

Comcast Vice President Johnnie Giles told the council that the Philadelphia-based company is committed to the local market, calling it "a jewel" that the company wants to provide with the highest quality services possible.

High-speed Internet access will be available to all Santa Rosa customers by the end of March, he said.

Blanchard and others wanted to know when the Comcast would roll out other services and upgrades, such as a 750 megahertz system offering high-definition television, video on demand and Internet telephony.

Giles offered no time lines. Instead, he suggested the council simply "send the kids back to the table" to continue negotiations.

Martini took offense at the remark and later took Giles to task over it.

"I find that comment to be unbelievably insensitive, to refer to our staff as a group of children," he said.

That remark, combined with testimony he has heard from residents over service problems and broken promises, convinced him that Comcast simply isn't trustworthy, he said.

To the list of "great lies" beginning with "the check's in the mail," Martini suggested another be added: "I'm from Comcast and we're going to get you high-speed service."

Reopening the franchise agreement will provide a more formal negotiating process that should put additional pressure on the company to negotiate in good faith, Richardson said.

After 90 days, the process would call for a mediator to be brought in to help the two sides resolve their differences.

Comcast's franchise agreement runs through 2011, and city officials said it probably couldn't be revoked unless there was a more serious violation of the contract.

WHAT'S NEXT?

The 1996 franchise agreement that allows Comcast to operate in Santa Rosa has been reopened for negotiation.

The two sides have 90 days to formally negotiate the portions of the contract in dispute.

After 90 days, if an agreement is not reached, a meditator is brought in for nonbinding mediation.

If agreement still cannot be reached, what happens next remains unclear. City officials said the Comcast's franchise agreement, which runs through 2011, probably couldn't be revoked unless there was a more serious violation of the contract.

mds54

02-23-05, 04:17 PM

Hmmm.......it seems like this has become the "Santa Rosa/550MHz" forum lately ;)
Well, I definitely wish you guys the best of luck in getting a resolve soon!

BTW, does anyone have an update on the KPIX analog/digital channel designation fix?

bobby94928

02-23-05, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by mds54
Hmmm.......it seems like this has become the "Santa Rosa/550MHz" forum lately ;)
Well, I definitely wish you guys the best of luck in getting a resolve soon!

BTW, does anyone have an update on the KPIX analog/digital channel designation fix?

It's been fixed in the North Bay for over a week.

mds54

02-23-05, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by bobby94928
It's been fixed in the North Bay for over a week.

I know that this issue regarding KGO has been resolved for over
a week now. But the same issue with KPIX in some areas has not.

MikeSM

02-23-05, 05:40 PM

Originally posted by keenan
Yes, I don't how many other cities have but here we have 4,

listed as,

Community Media Center-69
City View-70
Education Channel-71
OUR Channel-72

I'm not sure if the Education Channel is specific to Santa Rosa or not.

You have 4 public access channels on a 550 Mhz system??? That's 5% of the whole network. You could load 6 HD channels or 48 new SD channels on that spectrum....

You should aim to get 2 channels shutdown now to replace the HD channels you lost when KTVU came online ASAP, and then get all of them converted to SD digital in the near term so you can all that spectrum recycled. It shouldn't be that big a deal to make happen.

Thanks,
Mike

keenan

02-23-05, 07:39 PM

I think it's really only three as one of the four is the California Channel which I think is on all systems...what does everyone else have?

For example, I plugged in Saratoga and they look to have 3+1 as well, Petaluma it looks like at least 3...

traicer

02-23-05, 10:30 PM

Hi, first time poster I tried to read all of this thread but after 4 hours i couldnt do it.

Anyway i'm in concord, california. Just moved here, just got my first hdtv. Didnt really know what my options were with carriers, so signed up with comcast got the hd box and recorder. Had an issue with the first mortorola box they gave me but switched it out and seems like its resolved. Anyway my question is this I told them I wanted hd content and they offered me basic promo package that was digital clasic for some amount off for 3 months. Well anyway i found out I really only watch the hd channels save for a few hours of foodtv heh.

The comcast rep made it sound like i needed digital clasic package which is alot more chanels then i need, and I read from someone on this thread that there might be other options or packages i can get. Do I need the digital package to get the hd content and use my dvr box? Or is there a lower category for me.

Any words of wisdom would be much apreciated. And I do say i love this board, reading all the diy theaters makes me wish I had a basement or a spare room to start that project ;)

davisdog

02-24-05, 12:56 AM

Originally posted by keenan
I think it's really only three as one of the four is the California Channel which I think is on all systems...what does everyone else have?

For example, I plugged in Saratoga and they look to have 3+1 as well, Petaluma it looks like at least 3...

In Saratoga it looks like

15 Public Access
26 Government Access (Saratoga)
30 California Channel

although I'd be happy if all the analog just disappeared (only one I watch is 40/FSN...which would be mute if we got FSN-HD

fender4645

02-24-05, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by traicer
Hi, first time poster I tried to read all of this thread but after 4 hours i couldnt do it.

Anyway i'm in concord, california. Just moved here, just got my first hdtv. Didnt really know what my options were with carriers, so signed up with comcast got the hd box and recorder. Had an issue with the first mortorola box they gave me but switched it out and seems like its resolved. Anyway my question is this I told them I wanted hd content and they offered me basic promo package that was digital clasic for some amount off for 3 months. Well anyway i found out I really only watch the hd channels save for a few hours of foodtv heh.

The comcast rep made it sound like i needed digital clasic package which is alot more chanels then i need, and I read from someone on this thread that there might be other options or packages i can get. Do I need the digital package to get the hd content and use my dvr box? Or is there a lower category for me.

Any words of wisdom would be much apreciated. And I do say i love this board, reading all the diy theaters makes me wish I had a basement or a spare room to start that project ;)

Welcome to the group, traicer. For the most part, it seems like you need at least Digital Classic in order to get the DVR. However, some people have talked about cancelling it once the promo is over but still keep the DVR. Not sure if anyone's tried and/or if it works or not.

As for the HD channels, you could get the Basic package for ~$15/month + $5 for HD. This gives you all of the network channels in HD, KQED, and a few other SD channels. If you want ESPN-HD, INHD 1 and 2, and DiscoveryHD, you'll need at least the Digital Classic package. For the premium HD channels, you need to subscribe to that particular premium package in order to get the corresponding HD channel.

Hope this helps.

davisdog

02-24-05, 01:24 AM

Traicer,

Just to add to what Fender says...

There's two ways to get "Digital Classic"

One is the "Package" which includes the Basic Cable, Expanded Basic Cable and Digital Classic Tiers as a package....Around $55/month for that + Tax etc...

You can also just order the Basic Tier ($15) and Digital Classic Tier ($10) as separate items...That cuts out the Expand Basic Tier which accounts for $30 to get Channels 35-75 (which you say you dont need)

That would get you the tiers you need for HD (ABC, NBC, Fox, CBS, InHd1/2, EspnHD, DSCHD) for ~$25

Add $10 for the HD/DVR Fee (assuming they dont try and demand that you need a Digital"package" to get the DVR)

-Steve

fender4645

02-24-05, 01:30 AM

Originally posted by davisdog
You can also just order the Basic Tier ($15) and Digital Classic Tier ($10) as separate items...That cuts out the Expand Basic Tier which accounts for $30 to get Channels 35-75 (which you say you dont need)

That would get you the tiers you need for HD (ABC, NBC, Fox, CBS, InHd1/2, EspnHD, DSCHD) for ~$25

That's interesting...I didn't know you could do that. So you can get the HD versions of ESPN and FSN (non 16% area) without gettiing the SD channels (channels 38 and 40)?

davisdog

02-24-05, 01:39 AM

Originally posted by fender4645
That's interesting...I didn't know you could do that. So you can get the HD versions of ESPN and FSN (non 16% area) without gettiing the SD channels (channels 38 and 40)?

Yep...those channels are unlocked by having the Digital Classic Tier...nothing to do with having their expanded basic counterparts (even though it defies their logic on how they do other things...another reason why the CSRs cant keep it straight)

fender4645

02-24-05, 01:45 AM

Originally posted by davisdog
Yep...those channels are unlocked by having the Digital Classic Tier...nothing to do with having their expanded basic counterparts (even though it defies their logic on how they do other things...another reason why the CSRs cant keep it straight)

I'm looking on their web site and I can't find it where you can add just the Digital Classic Tier with the Basic Tier. The only things I see are: Basic ($17.30), Standard ($45.99), Digital Classic ($54.94), Digital Plus ($60.94), Digital Silver ($74.94), Digital Gold ($87.94), and Digital Platinum ($99.94). Is this someting you have to call in and order by phone?

avekevin

02-24-05, 01:45 AM

MikeSM

02-24-05, 01:54 AM

Originally posted by avekevin
I also have channel 6, which is called simply "Local Origination".

Kevin

Wow, you guys have a lot of useless programming taking up precious spectrum. There's enough there to give you the same HD programming an 860 Mhz system has if it was put to good use.

Thanks,
Mike

davisdog

02-24-05, 02:05 AM

Originally posted by fender4645
I'm looking on their web site and I can't find it where you can add just the Digital Classic Tier with the Basic Tier. The only things I see are: Basic ($17.30), Standard ($45.99), Digital Classic ($54.94), Digital Plus ($60.94), Digital Silver ($74.94), Digital Gold ($87.94), and Digital Platinum ($99.94). Is this someting you have to call in and order by phone?

Yes, you probably have to call in (they'd prefer you order the package since they get the most money from you, but I dont even think their is a price break w/packages...)..It should be listed in the detailed info that they occassionally mail out (with all the franchise stuff)

fender4645

02-24-05, 02:10 AM

Thanks, davisdog. I'll check it out.

keenan

02-24-05, 02:32 AM

Originally posted by avekevin
I also have channel 6, which is called simply "Local Origination".

Kevin

You're right, I missed that one, we really do have a bunch of useless crap on this system. I don't see the City giving those up either although I am going to ask about it. Thing is the folks that would probably watch those channels are the same ones that may only have a basic sub, which means they couldn't even be converted to digital.

keenan

02-24-05, 02:35 AM

Originally posted by MikeSM
Wow, you guys have a lot of useless programming taking up precious spectrum. There's enough there to give you the same HD programming an 860 Mhz system has if it was put to good use.

Thanks,
Mike

I wish it was that easy, the city isn't likely to give any of those up at this stage of the game, considering they feel they're not getting what they want from Comcast to begin with.

slb

02-24-05, 01:13 PM

According to today's PD, it doesn't look like Comcast is seriously considering upgrading the 550MHz systems at all. They believe that they can achieve their goal by going all digital and using better compression.:rolleyes:

According to Johnnie Giles, vice president of governmental affairs for Comcast in the Bay Are, "If you get an all digital network, you triple or quadruple the capacity of the system". And, "When that day comes, the bandwidth of 550 will be meaningless".

-Steve

dmlove51

02-24-05, 01:19 PM

I received a message on my TiVo box last night that a lineup change had occurred, and I now have KNTVDT2 on channel 186. Is this the same programming as KNTV channel 3, or something different?

davisdog

02-24-05, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by dmlove51
I received a message on my TiVo box last night that a lineup change had occurred, and I now have KNTVDT2 on channel 186. Is this the same programming as KNTV channel 3, or something different?

At their website, they show it as a 2nd (separate) channel they are launching...presumbably they can show different programming thatnKNTV/KNTVDT, but right now the schedule appears to be the same

http://www.nbc11.com/tvlistings/index.html

davisdog

02-24-05, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by slb
And, "When that day comes, the bandwidth of 550 will be meaningless".

haha, thanks for the wonderful insight Johnnie....and when will that day come...

bobby94928

02-24-05, 01:48 PM

plumeria

02-24-05, 02:20 PM

You can get many HD channels with just a cable tuner - I have the LG LST-4200a -without having to subscribe to anything special if you have basic cable. Something similar was posted many threads ago...

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone else using a QAM Tuner (such as the 4200a) has had this problem and how it was resolved. I live in Fremont BTW.

I get all the major broadcast channels in HD, but for some reason I am unable to get KQED HD (PSIP 117.2) when it starts at 8pm every night. I get the screen that says ithat High Definition broadcasting will resume at 8pm and I get the other KQED channels up to 8pm (Encore, World, Life, Kids), but at 8pm the HD screen at 117.2 goes blank.. the signal is still there (there are bars on the strength meter) but no audio or video.

Do you think this is a problem with
1) Comcast in Fremont
2) KQED
3) my hardware
4) the quality of my cable connection

thanks!

Peter

keenan

02-24-05, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by davisdog
haha, thanks for the wonderful insight Johnnie....and when will that day come...

Sounds just like a politician doesn't he? :rolleyes:

Meanwhile, that "day" ain't gonna happin' for 3-5 yrs....:mad:

keenan

02-24-05, 02:40 PM

There was a mention a few posts back about this being a "Santa Rosa" thread, but if you folks could bear with us as this is bigger than just Santa Rosa. The issues revolving around what's happening in Santa Rosa probably have major implications for all other 550MHz systems in the bay area.

Jim

Comcast tries to reassure SR
With contract reopened, cable company pledges to make Internet deadline

Thursday, February 24, 2005

By KEVIN McCALLUM
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

Taking scathing criticism from members of the Santa Rosa City Council on Tuesday night, representatives of cable operator Comcast on Wednesday sought to reassure customers that the company is committed to ironing out its differences with local officials and rolling out new services such as high-speed Internet access.

"The city and Comcast definitely remain partners in this whole situation," said Erica Eusebio, corporate communications director for the Bay Area.

Frustrated by what it said were delays and broken promises that have left the city's cable network less developed than other nearby cities, the council on Tuesday voted unanimously to reopen that 1996 franchise agreement with Comcast.

That action triggers a negotiation process that the city hopes will help it pin the company down on specific commitments for an upgrade to the system and the rollout of up-to-date services.

Comcast said Wednesday it has promised the city it will make high-speed Internet access across its cable system available to everyone in Santa Rosa by the end of March. To date, the company said Wednesday it has made the service available to about two-thirds of its subscribers. The company does not release figures for its subscribers, but estimates have put the number at about 66,000.

Some Santa Rosa residents told the council Tuesday night they could not get a definitive answer out of Comcast telephone representatives about when the service will be available in their areas.

"When they call in at the end of March, there's not going to be a back and forth and answers about whether it will be available. It will absolutely be available," Eusebio said.

As for other services such as high-definition television and video on demand, Eusebio said Comcast does not release dates they will be available for competitive reasons.

One of the goals of reopening the franchise agreement is to get a commitment in writing from Comcast on new services, said Sue Buske, the city's consultant in the negotiations. Council members were emphatic that they wanted Santa Rosa residents and businesses to have the most up-to-date telecommunications infrastructure available.

Another goal of reopening the franchise is for the city to get concrete answers to why it has a 550 megahertz network instead of the 750 or 860 megahertz systems enjoyed by surrounding cities such as Healdsburg and Petaluma, Buske said.

But the sides differ on that issue.

Johnnie Giles, vice president of governmental affairs for Comcast in the Bay Area, told the council that the company has no current plans to upgrade the system capacity beyond 550 megahertz. Instead, he said the company expects to free up bandwidth for new services in part by transitioning to an all-digital network.

"If you get an all-digital network, you triple or quadruple the capacity of the system," Giles said.

It might not make economic or practical sense for the company to upgrade the system capacity when all-digital is right around the corner, Giles said.

"When that day comes, the bandwidth of 550 will be meaningless," Giles said.

The idea that Comcast thinks it can do more with a smaller pipe, however, struck one analyst as problematic.

Cable companies "need more and more space to carry more and more applications," said Jimmy Schaeffler, chief executive officer of a Carmel-based television consulting firm, "and 550 is going to quickly become an antiquated standard."

Digital video compression technology is improving, but not nearly enough to allow a system like Santa Rosa's to keep up with other communities, he said.

Eusebio disagreed.

"The pipe is finite to a certain extent, but you can do a lot with the pipe if you compress it," she said.

COMCAST FACTS

Santa Rosa customers: 66,000

High-speed Internet service available: About 43,000 subscribers.

Cable Internet cost: $45 a month

Franchise fees to city: 5 percent of gross revenues or $1.3 million in 2004.

keenan

02-24-05, 02:45 PM

What Comcast is saying about 550 systems is just a lot of overheated hot air. They are saying that BW will become a non-issue, what a load of BS. Are they saying that once everything gets switched to digital that 750 and 860 systems will have all sorts of empty BW? Bullcrap, they will fill that BW up with even more services that wont fit on 550 systems.

BTW, the first LIL-HD DirecTV bird has completed 2 mos ahead of schedule..:)

wco81

02-24-05, 03:24 PM

Actually that is a Directway. Weren't the Spaceways going to be launched first and they were already completed?

Mikef5

02-24-05, 04:04 PM

Originally posted by keenan
What Comcast is saying about 550 systems is just a lot of overheated hot air. They are saying that BW will become a non-issue, what a load of BS. Are they saying that once everything gets switched to digital that 750 and 860 systems will have all sorts of empty BW? Bullcrap, they will fill that BW up with even more services that wont fit on 550 systems.

BTW, the first LIL-HD DirecTV bird has completed 2 mos ahead of schedule..:)

Keenan,

Please tell me more about Direct Tv, I've had it with Comcast and I'm ready to jump ship. All this pie in the sky talk has finally done it for me, I just don't need the heart burn anymore. I was going to go with Voom but I'm not real comfortable with a company that is hanging on by its teeth and I like the HMC that Directv is coming up with later this year. Comcast is going to do nothing in the near future for us in the 550MHz systems so it's time to take my money somewhere else.

Laters,
Mikef5

fender4645

02-24-05, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by keenan
BTW, the first LIL-HD DirecTV bird has completed 2 mos ahead of schedule..:)

Has there been any talk about D* carrying FSNBA-HD when they switch over to the new birds and MPEG-4? What about the local channels that Comcast doesn't carry? (WB, UPN, etc.) Will D* carry those as well?

Doc Tonic

02-24-05, 05:48 PM

Yes, I'm sick of my 550 bandwidth as well...If Direct TV carried WB and UPN, I'd switch instantly, but I don't think they carry those locals.

MikeSM

02-24-05, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by keenan
I wish it was that easy, the city isn't likely to give any of those up at this stage of the game, considering they feel they're not getting what they want from Comcast to begin with.

Well, this makes no sense to me. Why cut off the your nose to spite your face? Besides, it's not Comcast that is lobbying to reallocate those public service channels, it's you guys - the folks who live in the city and elect these people. This is like the union leaders going on strike and bankrupting a company causing all the employees to lose their jobs. They won the fight with management but all their members lost the game.

Why is it considered a giveback to Comcast if they have to put HD channels in that space? I'm not saying just turn the spectrum back, but with a requirement that HD channels fill it.

I don't think anybody actually watches these channels, box or no box. The whole thing is silly. Half the time there is no signal even transmitted on these channels!

But in any case, you get to live with the consequences of this - not me. All I'm saying is that you could have the same HD programming the best system in the Bay Area does a week after the city tells them to make this tradeoff, and if you do nothing it'll be years before you get that programming. This will only get worse as WB and UPN HD get added. If you want it, it's in the city's power to give it to you, not Comcast's at this point.

Thanks,
Mike

keenan

02-24-05, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by wco81
Actually that is a Directway. Weren't the Spaceways going to be launched first and they were already completed?

Could be, what I have gleaned from this forum and the media is that come mid-2005, in our market, DirecTV will have LiL-HD channels, and by the end of the year a whole house DVR host client system is supposed to be available. Current DirecTV customer equipment will be exchanged or pro-rated as the new channels and DVR solutions will be MPEG4 or something similar.

For folks in 550MHz Comcast systems, IMO, going with DirecTV and dumping Comcast will be the absolute, no-brainer solution. Comast has made it clear that 550 systems are pretty much going to stay the way they are for the foreseeable future. And this rhetoric about 550 not being a problem when full digital is implemented is just a load of crap, not to mention, full digital is not going to happen FOR YEARS, but of course, you can't expect Comcast to come right out and tell you that.

keenan

02-24-05, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by MikeSM
Well, this makes no sense to me. Why cut off the your nose to spite your face? Besides, it's not Comcast that is lobbying to reallocate those public service channels, it's you guys - the folks who live in the city and elect these people. This is like the union leaders going on strike and bankrupting a company causing all the employees to lose their jobs. They won the fight with management but all their members lost the game.

Why is it considered a giveback to Comcast if they have to put HD channels in that space? I'm not saying just turn the spectrum back, but with a requirement that HD channels fill it.

I don't think anybody actually watches these channels, box or no box. The whole thing is silly. Half the time there is no signal even transmitted on these channels!

But in any case, you get to live with the consequences of this - not me. All I'm saying is that you could have the same HD programming the best system in the Bay Area does a week after the city tells them to make this tradeoff, and if you do nothing it'll be years before you get that programming. This will only get worse as WB and UPN HD get added. If you want it, it's in the city's power to give it to you, not Comcast's at this point.

Thanks,
Mike

Mike, I hear what you are saying, but my guess is the city wont feel as if it's a fair enough trade-off as there probably isn't a lot of HD viewers here yet to make a difference. I'm sure that there is a bunch of little special interest groups around here that would scream bloody murder if their TV channel went away.

That's not to say I'm not going to try...

wco81

02-24-05, 06:51 PM

Yeah that was my plan, to stay on basic with Comcast until HD-LIL came online and you could have a nice HD PVR solution. But that wasn't going to be Tivo and it looks like next year before an HD PVR which handles MPEG4 will be available.

Also some concern about whether D* will squeeze the bitrate. Comcast claims they don't recompress so that's something to watch out for, whether D* tries to squeeze too much, even with all this new bandwidth they will be getting online.

keenan

02-24-05, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Mikef5
Keenan,

Please tell me more about Direct Tv, I've had it with Comcast and I'm ready to jump ship. All this pie in the sky talk has finally done it for me, I just don't need the heart burn anymore. I was going to go with Voom but I'm not real comfortable with a company that is hanging on by its teeth and I like the HMC that Directv is coming up with later this year. Comcast is going to do nothing in the near future for us in the 550MHz systems so it's time to take my money somewhere else.

Laters,
Mikef5

Mikef5, there's tons of info over in the satellite threads, the capacity for 500 LiL-HD channels is supposed to go online mid-2005 for the top 12 DMAs, and the plan is to do the top 50 DMAs by years end. By 2007, the plan is for 1500 LiL-HD channels covering the full list of 210 DMAs, that's an average of 7 HD local channels per DMA, consider that most DMAs don't even have that many HD channels and you can get an idea of the tremendous capacity that DirecTV will have. This is in addition to what DirecTV already offers. Ol' Rupert ain't messing around. Comcast MUST go full digital on 550 systems to even begin to compete with that. In its current configuration, there is no way that 550 systems will be able to compete with that capacity. Comcast is fully aware of what the satco is doing, why do you think they keep saying full digital is just around the corner but not giving any specific timetables? To keep you hanging on for as long as they can.

Also, a fundamental difference in Comcast and DirecTV is that DirecTV DOES NOT announce anything until it's pretty much set in stone, meaning if they say it's going to happen, it will. Comcast OTOH, well, I still get a mailer every two weeks about VOD...:rolleyes:

keenan

02-24-05, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by wco81
Yeah that was my plan, to stay on basic with Comcast until HD-LIL came online and you could have a nice HD PVR solution. But that wasn't going to be Tivo and it looks like next year before an HD PVR which handles MPEG4 will be available.

Also some concern about whether D* will squeeze the bitrate. Comcast claims they don't recompress so that's something to watch out for, whether D* tries to squeeze too much, even with all this new bandwidth they will be getting online.

As far as the compression thing, it will be a whole new ballgame with MPEG4, the codecs are getting better and hopefully along with that compression artifacts or problems will be minimized or eliminated.

JasonQG

02-24-05, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by avekevin
I also have channel 6, which is called simply "Local Origination". That channel becomes FSN+ when available, so it's sometimes useful. The rest of the time, it seems to be ads for local businesses or something.

Originally posted by keenan
Comcast tries to reassure SR
With contract reopened, cable company pledges to make Internet deadline

Thursday, February 24, 2005

By KEVIN McCALLUM
THE PRESS DEMOCRAT

<snip>

As for other services such as high-definition television and video on demand, Eusebio said Comcast does not release dates they will be available for competitive reasons.

<snip> I think this is a new PR spin, instead of the previous "no plans" response. At least the city has pressured them to the point that PR people are getting involved. Our best bet will be if the Press Democrat keeps publishing a lot of these negative Comcast articles. We should do all in our power to keep the PD on top of this.

Originally posted by keenan
As far as the compression thing, it will be a whole new ballgame with MPEG4, the codecs are getting better and hopefully along with that compression artifacts or problems will be minimized or eliminated. If they're recompressing the ATSC MPEG2 stream, though, it will never be as good. Artifacts add up with lossy compression. If they can somehow get an uncompressed or less-compressed stream, it should be fine or maybe even better.

keenan

02-24-05, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by fender4645
Has there been any talk about D* carrying FSNBA-HD when they switch over to the new birds and MPEG-4? What about the local channels that Comcast doesn't carry? (WB, UPN, etc.) Will D* carry those as well?

I have no doubt DirecTV will carry WB and UPN in HD. FSNBA-HD, I don't know as I think that is a Comcast "property" in this area. FSN-HD is carried by DirecTV in other areas of the country, for instance, folks in the Minnesota area will be able to see some of the March Madness games in HD from DirecTV through their regional FSN.

FSNs are a peculiar group, I read somewhere that a lawyer said, if you want to know how to confuse, bury and complicate ownership of something, look and see how Fox has done it with the FSNs. :D

I don't want to keep promoting the virtues of DirecTV here in a Comcast thread, as I'm sure there are many who don't appreciate it. There are pages and pages about sat service in the other forums. If asked to compare the two services here, I will, while trying to make short and sweet. :)

traicer

02-24-05, 07:20 PM

Thank you steve. I'm going to call them up after my 3 month promo ends and change it to two tiers and hope that there isnt an issue with the dvr box.

plumeria

02-24-05, 07:22 PM

I wonder of the moderators would be interested in starting new threads for each local area in which the politics of HDTV and HDTV programming would be discussed e.g. San Francisco, CA - Comcast - Politics. I am a newbie here, but it seems that this constitutes the majority of the discussions on all 272 pages...

This way those interested in the technology, service, programming etc. would have far less to weed through.

Flame resistant suit on...

peter

keenan

02-24-05, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by JasonQG
I think this is a new PR spin, instead of the previous "no plans" response. At least the city has pressured them to the point that PR people are getting involved. Our best bet will be if the Press Democrat keeps publishing a lot of these negative Comcast articles. We should do all in our power to keep the PD on top of this.

Exactly, they have to spin it that way, they just can't say flat out that there are no plans. Keep dangling the carrot.

In our area the focus needs to be on the BW issue, not the internet issue which seems to be what "everyone" is complaining about. With the BW issue resolved, the internet problem disappears. This is why Comcast keeps hitting on the March completion date for full implementation of HSI, they know it is going to happen, and it deflects people away from the larger problem that they have no intentions of fixing, lack of BW, until full digital waltzes into town.

Come April 1st Comcast can wave their flag and say, "see, we told you we would do it and we did, we're heroes", while the underlying problem still remains.

keenan

02-24-05, 07:36 PM

Originally posted by plumeria
Flame resistant suit on...

peter

No need for the suit, I'm done ranting on Comcast for awhile, and this is still the best place to go for all the things you mentioned. :)

MikeSM

02-24-05, 09:24 PM

Originally posted by keenan
Mike, I hear what you are saying, but my guess is the city wont feel as if it's a fair enough trade-off as there probably isn't a lot of HD viewers here yet to make a difference. I'm sure that there is a bunch of little special interest groups around here that would scream bloody murder if their TV channel went away.

That's not to say I'm not going to try...

Well, that's probably the most productive thing you could do, other than having a protest in front of Moscone center where Brian Roberts will be speaking in April on "The attack of the empowered consumer". :-)

Thanks,
Mike

JasonQG

02-24-05, 10:09 PM

Originally posted by keenan
Exactly, they have to spin it that way, they just can't say flat out that there are no plans. Keep dangling the carrot.

In our area the focus needs to be on the BW issue, not the internet issue which seems to be what "everyone" is complaining about. With the BW issue resolved, the internet problem disappears. This is why Comcast keeps hitting on the March completion date for full implementation of HSI, they know it is going to happen, and it deflects people away from the larger problem that they have no intentions of fixing, lack of BW, until full digital waltzes into town.

Come April 1st Comcast can wave their flag and say, "see, we told you we would do it and we did, we're heroes", while the underlying problem still remains. Yeah, most people don't realize that HDTV will be a huge deal within a couple years, and then the "heros" will be way too late again. It's the same thing that happened with HSI. They didn't really realize it was a big deal until too late. Actually, it's already too late. Even if they started tomorrow, they wouldn't be able to beat DirecTV. It was an easy decision to go with DSL over cable modem, and it will be just as easy to go with satellite over cable. Comcast makes my decisions so easy.

Barovelli

02-25-05, 12:35 AM

Hit the mute button, a moment of silence please.

The last node in San Jose has been switched over to the upgraded plant - the A/B switch is officially DEAD in south bay!

Now return to your local program.

davisdog

02-25-05, 01:17 AM

Originally posted by Barovelli
Hit the mute button, a moment of silence please.

The last node in San Jose has been switched over to the upgraded plant - the A/B switch is officially DEAD in south bay!

Now return to your local program.

Congratulations...its been a long road (I remember living in West SJ 10 years ago and TCI said the upgrade would be done the next summer...then the next and the next )...fortunately I moved 8 years ago to Saratoga and got to enjoy the benefits of the modern 550Mhz plant they had there (oh those where the days)

Cliff Olson

02-25-05, 11:18 AM

I have a little rave for Com(munist)Cast, although I am in a higher bandwidth area: I finally had the pleasure of watching The Matrix - Revolutions last night via the 6412 DVR. I have never heard anything on D* that was close to this soundtrack, in terms of dynamics. In fact, my sub got more of a workout on this movie, than any DVD I have in my collection (including The Haunting or SPR). I was so impressed by the lack of audio compression. I'm not used to hearing a lot of things that I heard, since I was with D* for the past 6 years.

John Mace

02-25-05, 12:59 PM

Mike5:

I'm no fan of Comcast, but even for those of us who live in a 550MHz area, they offer a better deal than D* at this point. If I were to switch to D*, I couldn't get FOX, NBC or ABC in HD. My friends with D* end up coming over here to watch "24" or "Lost", and I was the guy who had the Superbowl party. We don't get VOD, but you won't get that with D*, either. And if you want a DVR, you'll end up shelling out $600 or more.

I suspect that D* will catch up at some point, and as soon as they do, I'll switch. But right now, Comcast is the way to go. Since they fixed the "freeze" problem, I'm a happy camper.

mjuevos

02-25-05, 01:16 PM

hello everyone,
i just got my LG 4200A, hooked it up, scanned the channels and it turns out i am getting ESPN HD (channel 116-2), inHD some other HD channels along with all the local HD. i have extended basis. is this normal or will these feeds be shutting off in the days to come? this is all with san jose comcast.

thanks

mjuevos

02-25-05, 01:23 PM

Cliff Olson

02-25-05, 01:39 PM

John Mace

02-25-05, 02:10 PM

Originally posted by Cliff Olson
Hi John. Are you in the Bay Area? ABC and NBC or O&O stations in the Bay Area, and I was receiving their LA (HD) Feed just fine before I switched to Comcast.

Yes, Los Gatos. Have things changed since the summer? Last I looked into it, niether Dish nor Direct got you NBC or ABC-- you had to get it OTA, which is impossible in most of LG due to line of sight issues.

wco81

02-25-05, 02:27 PM

D* can get the LA feeds of CBS, NBC and CBS but not Fox.

No FSBA either.

keenan

02-25-05, 02:30 PM

Originally posted by John Mace
Yes, Los Gatos. Have things changed since the summer? Last I looked into it, niether Dish nor Direct got you NBC or ABC-- you had to get it OTA, which is impossible in most of LG due to line of sight issues.

You can get NBC, CBS and ABC from DirecTV in the bay area, and if you're lucky Fox as well..but things have changed recently, so I don't know how well a new subscriber to DirecTV will fare in getting those signals. Anybody that had them at the end of 2004 still has them though..

John Mace

02-25-05, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by keenan
You can get NBC, CBS and ABC from DirecTV in the bay area, and if you're lucky Fox as well..but things have changed recently, so I don't know how well a new subscriber to DirecTV will fare in getting those signals. Anybody that had them at the end of 2004 still has them though..

In Hi Def? If so, then things HAVE changed in recent months.

Mikef5

02-25-05, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by John Mace
Mike5:

I'm no fan of Comcast, but even for those of us who live in a 550MHz area, they offer a better deal than D* at this point. If I were to switch to D*, I couldn't get FOX, NBC or ABC in HD. My friends with D* end up coming over here to watch "24" or "Lost", and I was the guy who had the Superbowl party. We don't get VOD, but you won't get that with D*, either. And if you want a DVR, you'll end up shelling out $600 or more.

I suspect that D* will catch up at some point, and as soon as they do, I'll switch. But right now, Comcast is the way to go. Since they fixed the "freeze" problem, I'm a happy camper.

John,
Thanks for the insight and even though Comcast has been a real pain in the rear end lately I still am a fan of Comcast, I'm just po'd on the way they treat us in the 550 MHz and below systems. If TCI or AT&T still had the cable system we wouldn't have seen what we have since Comcast took over and that includes all the upgrades that were done in the other areas. What really set me off was for Mr. Germano to say that our areas are not cost effective enough to warrant upgrading now or ever. That they were waiting of some new technology to come down the road to free up bandwidth, when, 2 to 3 years was what he told me. So it's ok for me to pay the same amount that the upgraded systems do but not get the same programs that they get at the same price but we're not good enough to warrant an upgrade to get us to the same levels. Sounds fair to me.... not. :rolleyes:
I'm not going to wait 2 to 3 years to maybe get to where everyone else is right now and what happens in the future when new goodies come out ??? We still will be behind and again the cycle will continue. I agree it's not all Comcast's fault, the franchise boards are to blame also but with my dealings with the franchise board they don't have a clue on anything that is dealing with the cable systems and what is available here and in other areas. It's like talking to a brick wall, as a matter of fact I'd rather talk to a brick wall... :p
So until Comcast does something for the 550 MHz systems to get us on par with the other areas, I'll be looking else where. For what I pay to Comcast I can get a much better deal with the other 3 systems and that includes local HD which I can get OTA and that's with an indoor antenna. The only thing that Comcast understands is money, so I'll take my money somewhere else for now, but I hope that Comcast will see the error of their ways and just bite the bullet and do the right thing.

Laters,
Mikef5

todd22

02-25-05, 03:39 PM

Hello all I am new here and to the HD community.

I had a few questions regarding my service.

Background: I live in Antioch. Comcast digital Silver package w/HD. I believe my box is a 5100? It is a light silver casing. Hooked up to a Sony 34HS510.

1. On some of my HD programing, I believe it's just the 4:3 format I get a white line that runs across the top of the picture. Is this a problem from the network or do I need to call for service?

2. My box seems to turn off by itself, then back on after about 10-20 seconds. When this happens I lose my channel guide. On top of this my audio on some channels seems to hit blank spots, almost like a skip. Again is this a service call?

3. I would love to utilize the DVI connection because I only have 2 Component inputs (1 is used by my cable box, the other shares with the dvd and xbox). The question I have about this is that someone told me that DVI is not supported. Is this true? From reading through the forums I've gathered that this may be due to the firmware version? If that is the case is that upgradeable?

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but you guys seem to know a lot more that the average comcast phone tech (no offense to any that may be on the board).

I love my set-up but I was mislead into thinking I would be watching Giants games in true HD this year on FSN... but that's another issue I guess. From what I hear Oakley is setup but us Antiochians are not :(.

thanks!

John Mace

02-25-05, 03:41 PM

Seems like we in the 550 areas need to get our towns to negotiate significantly reduced rates, since we get signficantly reduced service. Perhaps with the loss of revenue, it would become cost effective for Comcast to upgrade us.

Of course it could backfire and Comcast could just give up on us altogether.

keenan

02-25-05, 04:06 PM

Originally posted by John Mace
In Hi Def? If so, then things HAVE changed in recent months.

Yes, they are the 4 DNS HD feeds from LA, and in my case, Fox from NY as well.

Mikef5

02-25-05, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by John Mace
Seems like we in the 550 areas need to get our towns to negotiate significantly reduced rates, since we get signficantly reduced service. Perhaps with the loss of revenue, it would become cost effective for Comcast to upgrade us.

Of course it could backfire and Comcast could just give up on us altogether.

If Comcast dropped Los Gatos, Milpitas and Saratoga, I can only imagine the sh*t that will hit the Public Relations fan. That would be a major embarrassment for Comcast to admit they can't service those areas, I'm sure the satellite providers would have a field day with that, like they did with the DVR fiasco. These areas should negotiate as a unit and have their franchise agreements end at the same time. What happens on one part of the loop affects the rest of the loop but that would require someone that has a clue and my franchise board is clueless.

Laters,
Mikef5

todd22

02-25-05, 04:17 PM

Is this something we could go to the FCC and complain about? Or am I way off the mark? :D

keenan

02-25-05, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by todd22
Hello all I am new here and to the HD community.

I had a few questions regarding my service.

Background: I live in Antioch. Comcast digital Silver package w/HD. I believe my box is a 5100? It is a light silver casing. Hooked up to a Sony 34HS510.

1. On some of my HD programing, I believe it's just the 4:3 format I get a white line that runs across the top of the picture. Is this a problem from the network or do I need to call for service?

Much of the programming on the HD channels is 4x3 content until prime time when many shows are displayed in 16x9. Even then, shows like Survivor and such are still 4x3 even though you are seeing them on an HD channel.

The white line is not normal, sounds like something is wrong there, 4x3 material displayed on a HD channel will have pillar boxes on either side of the picture, but that doesn't seem to be what you are referring to.

2. My box seems to turn off by itself, then back on after about 10-20 seconds. When this happens I lose my channel guide. On top of this my audio on some channels seems to hit blank spots, almost like a skip. Again is this a service call?

This is not normal, it sounds like the signal level from the cable is intermittent, call to have a service tech come out and check the lines.

3. I would love to utilize the DVI connection because I only have 2 Component inputs (1 is used by my cable box, the other shares with the dvd and xbox). The question I have about this is that someone told me that DVI is not supported. Is this true? From reading through the forums I've gathered that this may be due to the firmware version? If that is the case is that upgradeable?

Yes, DVI is active on the 5100, 6200 and 6412(DVr).

Sorry for the barrage of questions, but you guys seem to know a lot more that the average comcast phone tech (no offense to any that may be on the board).

I love my set-up but I was mislead into thinking I would be watching Giants games in true HD this year on FSN... but that's another issue I guess. From what I hear Oakley is setup but us Antiochians are not :(.

thanks!

No need to apologize for the questions, that's what this forum is for.

The FSN thing is related to the fact that Antioch is one of the 550MHz cities that have been discussed earlier. Not enough bandwidth for that channel, among other channels as well.

davisdog

02-25-05, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by todd22
Is this something we could go to the FCC and complain about? Or am I way off the mark? :D

Nope, You'd have to go to your City Council...they own the relationship/contract w/Comcast and unfortunately I bet Comcast is meeting the contract terms that Antioch signed up to...normally its a 10yr contract and I doubt antioch (or other cities) put in terms that would force comcast to upgrade to new technologies.

todd22

02-25-05, 05:23 PM

Thanks for the replies. I actually called and made a service appointment for tomorrow.

About the DVI, is there a specific type I should buy?

FYI - I am currently in a (civil) argument with Comcast via email, because when I signed up for the digital/hd upgrade I was informed that I would be receiving FSN in HD. I got a pretty good promo to sign up but if it gets better I'll let everyone know :). I will definitely bring up the question of service costs we 550ers get compared to households that are even 1 city away.

oh well just venting :)

Thanks for the replies. I actually called and made a service appointment for tomorrow.

...normally its a 10yr contract and I doubt antioch (or other cities) put in terms that would force comcast to upgrade to new technologies.

I would set up a city wide march but would probably twist my ankle in a pot hole on the way!

keenan

02-25-05, 05:24 PM

Additionally, in a lot of areas, all Comcast has been doing is honoring the existing contracts that were negotiated by the previous carrier. Change the name, make some head-end changes, and collect the big bucks...

walk

02-25-05, 08:27 PM

FSN is not in HD full-time here either, but when there's a HD game on, they switch one of the "INHD" channels over to it. So you should be able to get the games just fine. You just won't get their other lame programming (no loss).

Cliff Olson

02-25-05, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by keenan
You can get NBC, CBS and ABC from DirecTV in the bay area, and if you're lucky Fox as well..but things have changed recently, so I don't know how well a new subscriber to DirecTV will fare in getting those signals. A new sub will have no problem with ABC-HD, NBC-HD, and CBS-HD (since they're all O&O Stations), but forget even asking about FOX-HD. That's the whole reason I switched to Comcast in mid-January. I had finally received a waiver, but it was deemed useless by D*, thanks to SHVERA, they say.

keenan

02-25-05, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by walk
FSN is not in HD full-time here either, but when there's a HD game on, they switch one of the "INHD" channels over to it. So you should be able to get the games just fine. You just won't get their other lame programming (no loss).

todd22 doesn't get INHD, none of the 550 systems have INHD that I am aware of. So no FSNBA-HD.

keenan

02-25-05, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by Cliff Olson
A new sub will have no problem with ABC-HD, NBC-HD, and CBS-HD (since they're all O&O Stations), but forget even asking about FOX-HD. That's the whole reason I switched to Comcast in mid-January. I had finally received a waiver, but it was deemed useless by D*, thanks to SHVERA, they say.

Yeah, that recent sat bill is a mess, the FCC says one thing while DirecTV says another. I was lucky enough to get Fox-HD E/W turned on for good back in Nov I think it was. First came on during the MLB playoffs and then went dark after the WS until it went back on for good.

rickmccamy

02-25-05, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by Cliff Olson
A new sub will have no problem with ABC-HD, NBC-HD, and CBS-HD (since they're all O&O Stations), but forget even asking about FOX-HD. That's the whole reason I switched to Comcast in mid-January. I had finally received a waiver, but it was deemed useless by D*, thanks to SHVERA, they say.
As far as the FCC is concerned it has nothing to due with SHVERA and is totally a business practice of D*. Read their RESPONSE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5159451#post5159451) to my question about that very issue.:p

fender4645

02-26-05, 12:02 AM

Do we know for sure that FSN will be broadcasting on INHD this season? It sounds to me it makes more sense to use the HD Special Events channel. Isn't that what it's there for?

Cliff Olson

02-26-05, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by rickmccamy
As far as the FCC is concerned it has nothing to due with SHVERA and is totally a business practice of D*. Read their RESPONSE (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=5159451#post5159451) to my question about that very issue.:p Exactly right, rick. It didn't matter what I said, or who I talked to. D* was not going to give me the FOX-HD DNS feed, period. That's why I axed them after 6 loyal years. It's so stupid...

Cliff Olson

02-26-05, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by keenan
Yeah, that recent sat bill is a mess, the FCC says one thing while DirecTV says another. I was lucky enough to get Fox-HD E/W turned on for good back in Nov I think it was. First came on during the MLB playoffs and then went dark after the WS until it went back on for good. Hey, why don't you just rub it in, keenan ;)

maverick_geek

02-27-05, 03:59 AM

Well after months of waiting for the san jose cable rebuild to finish to feed an actual HD signal to my Z2. I picked up a replacement box and a DVR.

Hooked it all together and there was definite signal problem. I should have just scheduled the install rather than make the spot decision this morning to pick one up.

All analog was grainy, digital cable was pixellated/blocky using the power off + ok approach in this thread, on the digital channels the SNR : 22db with AGC:99%.

---------------------------------

So the first call to CSR:

Proceeded to HIT the box (this I believe it the solution to all problems in the cable world).

When no change in scenario proceeded to tell me that I should hook up via component rather than DVI. I could not convince the CSR that the output side was fine running at 720p and I could see the menus etc perfectly. I politely indicated that running a new cable to the projector was a tedious task. The CSR said it will take time for the guide to populate and I had to wait (how this is connected to the picture problems I have no clue). So I bid farewell hoping to get a better CSR later.

Call number 2 to CSR:

Happy to inform that the guide is doing very well since that is the only thing I have been able to watch on the new toy.

Proceeded to HIT the box (again it did the dance and nothing changed)

Luckily I realized that the other box (non-DVR) was not authorized since the first CSR only authorized one box forgetting that I had picked up two. This was useful to get done.

Again told that things will take some time and if it does not start
working to call back and schedule a appointment.

Call number 3 to CSR:

By now I had checked all my connections. Swapped outputs on the only visible splitter just to make sure that one side was not busted. Both boxes exhibit the same signal problems. The GI box tries harder and breaks up more ;-)

I asked for an appointment. I was told that I would be charged if the problem turned out to be just a missing connection to the TV. I said fine.

Then began the sales pitch for the additional $2.95 per month for a plan that makes all these service calls. I lost it here. I stopped the pitch short and said that I just want a working cable and not the sales pitch.

Now the appointment is for 1st March.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Sigh I waited for 6 months till Jan knowing the cable rebuild is around the corner. It got delayed by a month after being scheduled for an install. And now another 3 days. Not the 8 years of davis_dog but...

The sorry state of affairs in telecom and TV providers in my view is that it really has become a "go with the one that sucks least".

keenan

02-27-05, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by maverick_geek

All analog was grainy, digital cable was pixellated/blocky using the power off + ok approach in this thread, on the digital channels the SNR : 22db with AGC:99%.

This is definitely a signal strength problem. If you have eliminated all splitters and tried feeding the box with the cable directly from the street, and you get those numbers, then it's something Comcast is going to have to fix. It might be as simple as a bad connection at the tap at the street. Do any of your neighbors have Comcast? How is there signal?

(edit) The analog channels will always look less than stellar with the Comcast box as it does not do a very good conversion, the best approach is to split the cable and feed it directly to the display for the analog channels.

Your SNR and AGC numbers are pretty bad though and that needs to be addressed.

rnewste

02-27-05, 01:40 PM

Maverick,

I too have been waiting for years for Comcast to get high quality Digital in Campbell. I have tried all (DirectTV, DISH, and most recently VOOM HD), and was really expecting a superior solution (no rainouts, for example) with the new Comcast Digital service.

But alas, I am experiencing the same grainy picture on the non-HD channels you also see. This happens in 1080i (Pioneer PRO-710) but when I switch to Input 2 (S-Video) for some crazy reason, the picture looks better - strange!

The S-Video may be "masking" the grainy image however, and I lose the channel guide on Input 2 - so this is not a permanent option. While the HD channels from the Comcast box produce the best OTA and INHD, HBO quality I have ever received compared to all my previous satellite services, the washed out and grainy image on all non-HD channels is causing me to rethink going back to VOOM.

I am going to track your thread to see if your March 1 Comcast tech appointment fixes your problem. Please keep us all posted.

Ray Newstead

creator (with a small "c") of the Hipix DTV 200

davisdog

02-27-05, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by rnewste
Maverick,

But alas, I am experiencing the same grainy picture on the non-HD channels you also see. This happens in 1080i (Pioneer PRO-710) but when I switch to Input 2 (S-Video) for some crazy reason, the picture looks better - strange!

Ray,

As Keenan mentions above..the quality of the Analog Channels (ch 1-80) are not very good when run through the Comcast HD Box..That's because the box doesnt do a very good job of analog to digital conversion.

The only work around to improve quality is to split your incoming cable and use your TV's built in Analog Tuner when you want to watch those channels.

Comcast is working on a plan (called digital simulcast) to send those channels in a digital format later this year so that they will appear as good as the SD channels (100+)...bottom line you can get good HD from comcast, but the analog is not very good.

-Steve

rnewste

02-27-05, 04:02 PM

Thanks for the info Steve. I agree that a direct connect to the coax input on my Pro-710 yields better quality, but I don't want to keep toggling between Input 1 and Antenna A on my remote as I go through the channels. I simply want a seamless Favorites channel up/down ability.

As I said, the HD channels in both video and audio quality really are far superior to anything I've experienced on DISH, VOOM HD, etc. That's a BIG plus for Comcast - - but the analog channels are far worse than I was getting on VOOM. This I really don't understand.

Also, when changing channels when I hit a HiDef channel, my Pro-710 screen "squiggles" a bit, which indicates to me it is changing resoloution somehow. I thought the Comcast box was ALWAYS outputting 1080i to my Pro-710. Apparently, not. Only on the HD channels.

Also, I am getting a lot of artifacts around text in SD channels which I saw in VOOM due to compression. I thought on Digital Cable, bandwidth compression was not an issue. If so, why all the compression artifacts and dot crawl. Anyway, after watching INHD programs, it is difficult to watch Comcast analog channels. Hopefully, they will indeed as you suggest, have an improved Digital solution in the very near future - - or I will likely be going back to VOOM.

Ray Newstead

bpearse

02-27-05, 04:06 PM

Ray,

Great to hear from you again! I still have my HiPix running in my HTPC as my main means of getting OTA HDTV. Gee, how long has it been? 2-3 years since the HiPix was launched? We are definitely old timers....

rnewste

02-27-05, 04:35 PM

Hey Bob,

How the heck are you? I'm still in Silicon Valley doing M&A stuff for the company.

I am now building a new HTPC (retiring the ole HiPix) using an Asus P4GD2 mobo and a MyHD130 HD recorder card. This new version supports QAM so it will be interesting to see what Comcast HD channels I will be able to record to my HTPC.

The "irony" is that Comcast has much better HD video and audio quality, while VOOM HD has much better analog channel upconvert - - so I may keep Comcast for HD channels only, and go with VOOM HD for the non-HD channels. Doesn't make any sense - - but that is the way it seems to be working out for me.....

BTW, went to your family website and saw Steve has a genealogy link. My wife has been doing this for the past 6 years (we have been back to East Anglia (Norwich, Ipswich) twice to go through old records and Church documents - so far, traced family back to 1611. Even found a Newstead tombstone dated 1710 in our direct lineage.

Ray

:)

maverick_geek

02-27-05, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by keenan
This is definitely a signal strength problem. If you have eliminated all splitters and tried feeding the box with the cable directly from the street, and you get those numbers, then it's something Comcast is going to have to fix. It might be as simple as a bad connection at the tap at the street. Do any of your neighbors have Comcast? How is there signal?

(edit) The analog channels will always look less than stellar with the Comcast box as it does not do a very good conversion, the best approach is to split the cable and feed it directly to the display for the analog channels.

Your SNR and AGC numbers are pretty bad though and that needs to be addressed.

You read my mind. I did this just now and removing all splitters gave me only FOX HD with SNR:24db AGC:88% other HD channels do not come in. So definitely a signal problem.

The analog channel issue will be problematic for me since the Z2 projector has no tuner :-) well I guess I will fire up the projector only when there is something worthwhile in HD anyway.

Knowing this analog issue I am glad I kept my replaytv connected to the non dvr box. I was just cautious wanting to try the HD-DVR before nixing the replay. Now it looks like the replay will need to stay until atleast all the channels are HD :-) :-)

cgould

02-27-05, 10:49 PM

SonomaSearcher, others, any progress getting Comcast to change the name for HD KPIX (cbs)? It's still identical to the SD channel, and all my dang recordings are still reverting...
including last week, AFTER 9.15 firmware, when it crashed/hung on the SD ch5 channel- and messed up my HD other-tuner recording of WestWing, also.
(so either 9.15 did NOT fix the analog tuner hang, or it was something else.. maybe something else, since I hadn't seen the analog tuner hang, although I rarely watch analog)

KGO was fixed long time ago, why the annoying delay re KPIX? 90% of the HD shows I watch are on CBS, so this is doubly annoying!!

lloydus

02-27-05, 11:15 PM

Does anyone know what channel I can get an HD calibration test picture? I own the new Vizio and would like to set it up right.

Funny but I have not noticed much difference between a DVI cable and component coming out of my new Comcast Motorola dual HD tuner DVR to the Vizio

Almighty1

02-28-05, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by Cliff Olson
Have any of you had no audio at all when trying to watch something else as the DVR is recording? I wonder if the new firmware will fix that? It was so bad, I had to cancel the recording a few nights ago, so I could watch TV... Thanks for posting the link, shortstop. It looks like well over half (assuming KTVU comes through) the Giants Schedule will be seen in HD!

I had a different problem with 9.15 that wasn't there before. What happened was the live had all the DVR functions like the play, rewind/forward, pause and sound but for some reason, the recorded version would only play/resume/rewind to beginning with no sound. All other functions would show on the screen but it's still in play mode only.

Almighty1

02-28-05, 06:05 AM

Originally posted by AVWH
I recorded the Chinese New Year's parade earlier this evening on 702. I just discovered it had no sound for the 1st 7 or 8 minutes - anyone else with the same experience?

I never made it that far... I thought it was going to be in 16:9 instead of 4:3. I only watched the first few minutes but due to no sound, went with the KTSF SD version on channel 8 instead.

Almighty1

02-28-05, 06:08 AM

Originally posted by keenan
I don't know, but that has always been the knock on cable internet, the more it's accessed on a node the more clogged and slower it gets. Only so much BW available on the node and then eventually routed through the plant to the net itself. DSL, OTOH is a direct independent line to the switch which in turn is probably connected to the T1 or T3 pipe.

T1's were used for Frame Relay based DSL's. SBC's ATM network is all atleast OC3 155Mbps to each CO. sonic.net has one OC3 to the Santa Rosa router and a OC3 to the San Francisco router. I'm in San Francisco but I'm connected to the Santa Rosa router.

Almighty1

02-28-05, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by russwong
DSL speeds are based on your distance from either the CO (central office) or a RT (remote terminal) and what speeds they cap you at. Because I'm relatively close to a RT (approx 4,000 feet) and I have the higher speed package, my DSL modem synchs at the full 6 megs/608k upload/download. After you account for TCP/IP overhead, I get approx 5 Megs down and 512k upload, which is pretty damn sweet.

Yes there aren't tons of places that can feed 5 megs, but I have my own website/email/etc so the upload speeds are beter then cable and my downloads are better with out any contention with other people in my area.

I love my speeds, that's for sure!

Russ

Hey russ,

me too! I think the limit for the 6016Kbps/608Kbps is 9500 feet from the CO or RT. I'm 4314 feet from the CO. I guess the bad thing is that for us who signed up for the $44.95 with 8 static IPs, our prices are now $25 higher per month. I wonder how much is the FUSF if we went with the new $64.95 promo.

ldivinag

02-28-05, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by lloydus
Does anyone know what channel I can get an HD calibration test picture? I own the new Vizio and would like to set it up right.

Funny but I have not noticed much difference between a DVI cable and component coming out of my new Comcast Motorola dual HD tuner DVR to the Vizio

you kinda missed out one nite last month.

KNTV had color bars for about 30 minutes during the midweek news at 11pm.

i recorded that.

granted, it aint VIDEO ESSENTIALS... ;)

i was able to use the color bars and use the VE blue filter to kinda tweak the colors on the COMPONENT input.

on the HDTV-inSFBAY yahoo group, where the head tech (i think) of KCRA (or one of smaller PBS station) mentioned he might do that last year when they were finishing up their transition...

never happened though... :(

edit: LOLLLLLLL as i type this (4;00am), INHD2 is running color bars.... with 1k tone.... and i'm rolling tape. ;)

edit #2: the GUIDE says INHD 1 and 2 has color bars from 4-5am... so set your "VCRs" next monday early morning...

lloydus

02-28-05, 03:04 PM

edit: LOLLLLLLL as i type this (4;00am), INHD2 is running color bars.... with 1k tone.... and i'm rolling tape.

edit #2: the GUIDE says INHD 1 and 2 has color bars from 4-5am... so set your "VCRs" next monday early morning...

I looked at the guide next Monday at 4am and INHD1 and 2 do not show that.

I am right in assuming that I need to calibrate from the source that is playing? I have the Avia dvdand used that to calibrate my dvd player.

LLoyd

Larry Kenney

02-28-05, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by AVWH:
I recorded the Chinese New Year's parade earlier this evening on 702. I just discovered it had no sound for the 1st 7 or 8 minutes - anyone else with the same experience?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The picture was perfect from the beginning... beautiful 16:9 HD... but all I heard for audio was occasional clicks and buzz. Sounded like they were trying to find where the problem was. Finally, about 11 minutes after the parade started, they got the audio. It was fine after that.

Larry

mds54

02-28-05, 05:33 PM

QUOTE]Originally posted by cgould
SonomaSearcher, others, any progress getting Comcast to change the name for HD KPIX (cbs)? [/QUOTE]

You know, this is really getting bizarre. I asked two respected folks here to help us with KPIX like they did with KGO, and have seen no follow-up response/update from either one of them to date. And now our subsequent posts are being completely ignored. (No one has even replied to your post until now). Same thing is happening in the Yahoo local newsgroup. Since the KPIX issue does not affect everyone in the Bay Area, maybe there's not enough concern about this issue anymore. I don't know what else to do.....

davisdog

02-28-05, 05:47 PM

Sonoma was pushing it (and working w/his sources), but I assume he's off on vacation since he hasnt posted anything in a week (must be going through posters withdraw)

keenan

02-28-05, 07:25 PM

Originally posted by mds54
QUOTE]Originally posted by cgould
SonomaSearcher, others, any progress getting Comcast to change the name for HD KPIX (cbs)?

You know, this is really getting bizarre. I asked two respected folks here to help us with KPIX like they did with KGO, and have seen no follow-up response/update from either one of them to date. And now our subsequent posts are being completely ignored. (No one has even replied to your post until now). Same thing is happening in the Yahoo local newsgroup. Since the KPIX issue does not affect everyone in the Bay Area, maybe there's not enough concern about this issue anymore. I don't know what else to do..... [/QUOTE]

About the only thing I can think of doing is trying to get in contact with one of the tech people at wherever your headend is as it seems the problem gets corrected there.

Call your local office and ask for the service manager maybe...

gdebruyn

02-28-05, 07:31 PM

please post details (exactly) what we are supposed to ask for. change what to what. one of the supervisors asked that i get back to him to see if the error got corrected or not and he was doing some debugging as well. worth a shot.

mds54

02-28-05, 07:42 PM

Originally posted by keenan
About the only thing I can think of doing is trying to get in contact with one of the tech people at wherever your headend is as it seems the problem gets corrected there.

Keenan, thanks for the suggestion, but that's what we have been doing. The thing is, as gdebruyn asks below, we don't know the correct approach to use or who the proper Comcast connections would be to speak to about this. That's what we were hoping to get from the folks here that were able to get the similar KGO issue resolved a few weeks ago.....

Originally posted by gdebruyn
please post details (exactly) what we are supposed to ask for. change what to what. one of the supervisors asked that i get back to him to see if the error got corrected or not and he was doing some debugging as well. worth a shot.

keenan

02-28-05, 07:59 PM

I don't really know, I think SonomaSearcher has a contact for this issue but he seems to be MIA.

gdebruyn, since you are in Danville it might be worth a trip down to San Ramon and camp out in Comcast's Bay Area head office until you got someone to respond with an acceptable answer.

mds54

02-28-05, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by keenan
I don't really know, I think SonomaSearcher has a contact for this issue but he seems to be MIA.

The only contact name given to me by SonomaSearcher has never replied to my PM. SS did say that he would also look into it at that time, and last week he asked us to post our system data (which a few of us did), but that's the last I've heard of it. I just don't know where we should pick it up from here.....

keenan

02-28-05, 08:54 PM

I don't know either, I will see if I can reach the service manager in this area and get a number for the service managers for your's and gdebruyn's area. This guy can be a little sketchy getting ahold of though...

mds54

02-28-05, 09:20 PM

Originally posted by keenan
I don't know either, I will see if I can reach the service manager in this area and get a number for the service managers for your's and gdebruyn's area. This guy can be a little sketchy getting ahold of though...

I appreciate anything you can do, keenan. And I'll do whatever I can on my end too.
Thanks!

jasonander

02-28-05, 09:21 PM

I tried calling 2 weeks ago and have emailed Comcast support multiple times (including today) alerting them to the KPIX naming problem, and have gotten nowhere. I just get the generic responses like "if there's a problem, we're aware of it", "I've forwarded your response to the appropriate department", and "solving problems like this takes time, so quit your whining and pay us", etc. Is our only recourse to contact the Mercury and generate more bad PR for this company? I'm also thinking of trying to contact people at KPIX, since this reflects negatively on their station and someone there may have more pull than a paying customer (which IMHO, is very sad).

ldivinag

02-28-05, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by lloydus
I looked at the guide next Monday at 4am and INHD1 and 2 do not show that.

I am right in assuming that I need to calibrate from the source that is playing? I have the Avia dvdand used that to calibrate my dvd player.

LLoyd

i sent out an email to INHD and see what they say...

anyways, some tv's have diff settings for diff inputs. so if you set the parameters for the dvd input and then switch to the HD input, then yes...

efball

02-28-05, 09:54 PM

I've just caught up with the last couple weeks of posts:

Santa Rosa is keeping FM stations on Comcast cable. It's in the contract with the City (this was in todays Press Democrat). They aren't very good quality anyway, I do better with an outdoor antenna (no rotor) and I'm in an area where OTA TV just isn't an option.

Sonic.net is a great ISP, and I'm happy with their DSL service, but not everyone in Santa Rosa can get it, so some people really want Comcast internet, even if they do ban servers and block ports and generally suck as an ISP.

Our only hope on the 550Mhz system in Santa Rosa is if they do a digital conversion, and there is only one way I can see this happening:

1) Make all the "cable" channels (A&E, USA, ESPN, MTV, etc) digital only.
2) Simulcast only the broadcast and public access channels.

There's about 30 broadcast and public access channels, and about 40 cable channels.
If they are packing the SD digital channels into 1MHz (6/channel), then this would free up about 28 channels, which would be a huge improvement.

mikeaymar

02-28-05, 11:55 PM

I have noticed different delay times between the SD and HD versions of the same programming. Sometimes it is almost in sync, and others the HD signal is greatly delayed. For example, tonight my wife is watching American Idol on FOX SD, through a 5100 cable box. When I watch American Idol on FOXHD, through a 6412 box, there is more than a 20 second delay. I have never seen a delay this long before. It is usually just a few seconds.
Can anyone shed some light on why it is so long tonight, and/or why it varies so much?
Thanks
Mike

jasonander

03-01-05, 02:17 AM

Success! I emailed the Director of Engineering at KPIX and he said he'd contact Comcast; I don't know if that made any difference, but you never know. Everything on 705 is now TBA. All old recordings scheduled for 705 have reverted to channel 5, so you'll need to set them up again. It's about time this was fixed!

keenan

03-01-05, 02:28 AM

From Multichannel News

Comcast Sues Calif. City
By Linda Haugsted 2/28/2005 5:26:00 PM

Asserting that officials from the city of Walnut Creek, Calif., are "actively prohibiting Comcast [Corp.] from making technical upgrades" to the system there, the MSO struck back in a federal court Friday, seeking injunctive relief from city oversight.

The suit alleged that the city has tied permits for an upgrade from the 450-megahertz system to improper franchise-agreement concessions.

Walnut Creek is part of a consortium in Contra Costa County in the San Francisco Bay area that just recently reached an agreement in principle with Comcast to complete refranchises. Walnut Creek is the only city in the consortium that has not been upgraded due to the lack of permitting.

According to Comcast's suit, filed in U.S. District Court for the Northern District of California, Walnut Creek has refused to issue permits without a completed franchise. Comcast won't agree to a franchise because the city is asking for improper concessions, such as the construction of a separate, advanced telecommunications network for the city's use, in the guise of an institutional network, according to the company.

The city also seeks PEG-access (public, educational and government) support in excess of the 5% franchise-fee cap.

Because of the permitting delay, Comcast is unable to offer services such as expanded digital-TV offerings, high-speed data and HDTV, which would make it more competitive with rival companies ranging from Verizon Communications to Astound Broadband, a bundled-services provider.

Although Comcast officials believe they are close to closing franchise-agreement negotiations with the consortium, the MSO filed suit against Walnut Creek because it had "exhausted all other remedies" in its attempts to gain permits, according to a Comcast statement.

"We regret that this dispute has reached this point," the statement added.

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA507370.html?display=Breaking+News&referral=SUPP
Multichannel News: The Cable Industry Book-of-Record