It seems to be fixed now.

I think it probably was Comcast side because when it was happening I switched to KQED 709 and skipping was happening there also, but not nearly as bad.

The strange thing is I got my OTA antenna setup again so I had Comcast STB and Samsung SIR-T150 displaying side-by-side. The Samsung was about .5 seconds ahead of the Comcast picture. I saw some video glitches on the Samsung display and then .5 seconds later I saw the same on the Comcast display.

I think what was happening is there were minor glitches in the KGO signal (unrelated to the Comcast issue) and those obviously went to Comcast KGO feed, however the major skipping and pixelation issues were caused by something else, on Comcast side, and it affected both KGO and KQED.

None of these were reported as "errors" by Motorola STB so it wasn't a signal problem.

KGO and KQED share the same RF frequency on Comcast lines.

I had to see what was going on too and tuned in at 8:45. No breakup's yet in Fremont.

Kevin
You might have started watching after they fixed the problem. The end of "The Scholar" was ok and so was beginning of MIB II.

also regarding NBA on KGO, I noticed the picture gets blurry at times but then clears up. Is this just a product of ABC's poor production quality? Or a transmission problem?

Is this during the same shot, or from different camera angles. If it is different camera angles it could just be the feed from 16 X 9 SD cameras. I notice this frequently with baseball games.

fitprod

It seems to be fixed now.

I think it probably was Comcast side because when it was happening I switched to KQED 709 and skipping was happening there also, but not nearly as bad.

The strange thing is I got my OTA antenna setup again so I had Comcast STB and Samsung SIR-T150 displaying side-by-side. The Samsung was about .5 seconds ahead of the Comcast picture. I saw some video glitches on the Samsung display and then .5 seconds later I saw the same on the Comcast display.

I think what was happening is there were minor glitches in the KGO signal (unrelated to the Comcast issue) and those obviously went to Comcast KGO feed, however the major skipping and pixelation issues were caused by something else, on Comcast side, and it affected both KGO and KQED.

None of these were reported as "errors" by Motorola STB so it wasn't a signal problem.

KGO and KQED share the same RF frequency on Comcast lines.I just looked at the recordings I made just after 8:00 last night from D24 OTA and Comcast 707. In case anyone has doubts anymore, the problem was clearly in the Comcast handling. The OTA recording was flawless (1 continuity error and zero TEI errors) while the 707 recording had over 600 CE and over 50 TEI errors. I hope that it stays fixed--and that they'll check to see if they're making the same sort of error on INHD/INHD2 where I also find many CE often (and then can't change to viewing OTA). :(

Is this during the same shot, or from different camera angles. If it is different camera angles it could just be the feed from 16 X 9 SD cameras. I notice this frequently with baseball games.

fitprod

With the focus blur, I tend to notice it when the feed jumps to a different camera. But then the problem slowly corrects itself. Keenan was saying earlier that it's some encoder/decoder problem (on KGO's end?).

Regardless, I'm just hoping for a good quality game tonight. Both in terms of transmission by Comcast, and gameplay :p

It seems to be fixed now.

I'm not convinced that the issue has been resolved. When I was talking to the KGO engineer last night around 9PM discussing the problem with him, I noted that MIB was not having the problem and he said it probably wouldn't because movies are ran at a lower bitrate since they are 24Fp/s to begin with. The problem arises when both KGO and KQED are both running high bitrate material into the Comcast center at Sutro.

To be clear, he wasn't exactly sure what the issue was since he couldn't raise the Comcast guy at Sutro, they only have one person stationed there. But, he made it very clear that when Comcast started up carrying KGO's digital signals that the folks at KGO were very concerned about the equipment being used by Comcast in relation to signal quality. Contrary to what I've been led to believe and I'm sure many others as well, the equipment that Comcast uses, he called it a "Big Ben", does in fact remove, scrape out, whatever you want to call, some detail from the incoming signal to reduce BW requirements for Comcast to then convert to 256 QAM and fit 2 signals into one 6MHz RF slot. I guess you could call it rate-shaping. He said that KGO actually was in contact with the manufacturer of this "Big Ben" component because the initial signal quality was not what KGO expected, apparently Comcast was trying to squeeze more than they should have.

Now, in my experience since I have never seen an OTA KGO-digital signal, and based on the PQ I get from Comcast, whatever Comcast is doing to the signal it gets from KGO is not near as bad as what these Moto STBs do to it. When plugging the cable direct into my display without running through the STB, there is a very slight, but noticeable difference in detail with the straight feed.

Anyway, he is going to call me back later this afternoon and let me know what has transpired in regards to the signal breakup. He was adamant though, that should Comcast viewers have any PQ issues with the KGO signal, that they should raise as much stink as possible about it with Comcast. He said, coming from viewers, it would carry far more weight than if coming from KGO itself.

You guys that get both feeds, do you see a difference in quality between the Comcast and the OTA signals? Because if there is, Comcast should hear about, loud and clear...

With the focus blur, I tend to notice it when the feed jumps to a different camera. But then the problem slowly corrects itself. Keenan was saying earlier that it's some encoder/decoder problem (on KGO's end?).

I was just repeating what another member here was saying about the equipment. It was something about the equipment appeared to need a reset, or something along those lines, because focus issues are what will happen if it's not done. I'll look for the post and try and get more info, and, when I talk to KGO later today I will discuss that with him.

You folks that get OTA as well as Comcast, have you noticed the out of focus problems? IIRC, they tend to happen when there is a transition from one side of the court to the other and for a few seconds or so the stable image is out of focus, and then it will clear up.

You folks that get OTA as well as Comcast, have you noticed the out of focus problems? IIRC, they tend to happen when there is a transition from one side of the court to the other and for a few seconds or so the stable image is out of focus, and then it will clear up.keenan, I haven't watched enough 707 to know yet, but I'll be set up to record both 707 and D24 from 7:30 to 8:30 this evening, which should give me a good OTA reference and samples of both pre and post KQED-HD startup on 707. We'll see....

I'm not convinced that the issue has been resolved. When I was talking to the KGO engineer last night around 9PM discussing the problem with him, I noted that MIB was not having the problem and he said it probably wouldn't because movies are ran at a lower bitrate since they are 24Fp/s to begin with. The problem arises when both KGO and KQED are both running high bitrate material into the Comcast center at Sutro.
It is certainly possible the scenario you described, but I noticed the skipping stopped happening at the end of "The Scholar", around 8:50pm, whereas earlier in the hour it was pretty bad. Scholar was upconverted 4x3 SD and KQED was also running upconverted 16x9 SD, so I wouldn't think the bitrate would be that high (I'm assuming these channels are running VBR variable bit rate compression)

We'll get another crack at seeing what is up tonight with an NBA high bitrate transmission.

Hi Keenan,
I had ota for a couple of years as well as comcast and did lots of comparisons (it was a valid comparison as I use a hard a/b switch between the atsc tuner and the comcast box) particularly on kgo. I could not detect a difference in quality. in fact when there were issues, both feeds had them to the same degree. Note I'm only speaking of pq. audio can be different.

You're right, the kgo engineering staff has been very keen on making sure comcast delivers the signal in the quality that it is produced. At least out here in Livermore, I think we're getting a good signal from kgo via comcast that's as good as the OTA feed.

There have been issues in the past, where the encoder's were providing reduced bandwidth mistakenly. but last I heard from kgo, this was fixed. Let us know what you hear from them.

Best,
jeff

Just talked to KGO engineering. He said the problem should be fixed. Comcast had actually implemented rate shaping as a method to secure more bandwidth. KGO asked them to turn it off, and according to the fellow I talked to, they did. He also said that he believes that Comcast has moved KGO to a different RF slot as not to conflict with KQED, you guys that can tune in by cable RF can verify that, or not.

The blurriness, focus issue is from the truck at the site, his 45MBs feed was showing the same focus problem whenever there was a pan from one side of the court to the other. He also remarked that ESPN got the best remote HD broadcast goodies... :p

Just talked to KGO engineering. He said the problem should be fixed. Comcast had actually implemented rate shaping as a method to secure more bandwidth. KGO asked them to turn it off, and according to the fellow I talked to, they did. He also said that he believes that Comcast has moved KGO to a different RF slot as not to conflict with KQED, you guys that can tune in by cable RF can verify that, or not.
So it seems like they made the rate shaping change yesterday around 8:45pm as KGO has been fine since then.

They did not change the RF. KGO and KQED still share RF 117/753Mhz.

Yes, it looks like it's fixed. :)

Rate-shaping being put into play here in the bay area is something that needs more discussion and action by the viewer...but right now, I'm watching the end of the game.. :D

Yes, it looks like it's fixed. :)

Rate-shaping being put into play here in the bay area is something that needs more discussion and action by the viewer...but right now, I'm watching the end of the game.. :DI recorded OTA and 707 KGO feeds from 7:30 to 8:30. The OTA was nearly flawless (2 continuity and 0 TEI errors in the hour) while the 707 was 10 times better than yesterday with only 50 continuity and zero TEI errors. Their bit rates were, in fact, indistinguishable (both 14.8 Mbps) in TSReader. It seems that the gross problem evident yesterday just after 8 p.m. was fixed, but there's still some degradation in the TS via Comcast, as evidenced by the CE count (although 50/hour is probably mostly not noticeable to a live viewer).

Maybe the KGO guy meant that Comcast would be moving KGO to a different rf channel in the upcoming QAM shuffle we've all been hearing about.

Yes, it looks like it's fixed. :)

Rate-shaping being put into play here in the bay area is something that needs more discussion and action by the viewer...but right now, I'm watching the end of the game.. :D

Pistons victory! Now we get to watch at least one more glitch-free game. thanks a bunch for pressing the issue Keenan!

Maybe the KGO guy meant that Comcast would be moving KGO to a different rf channel in the upcoming QAM shuffle we've all been hearing about.
Could be, but if Comcast does proceed with rate-shaping, they better do a good job of it so it doesn't impact the signal in any way, these folks at KGO are pretty serious about their digital PQ. And of course, we, the Comcast customers will certainly make some noise if it degrades the quality in any way.

Pistons victory! Now we get to watch at least one more glitch-free game. thanks a bunch for pressing the issue Keenan!
It's a best of 7 series, so we're guaranteed at least 2 more games, although I think it will go 6, with the Spurs on top.. :)

The 256QAM conversion continued in Fremont today. The following channels have been converted (x before the channel):

x - 164 Shop NBC
x - 182 Fine Living
x - 400 Comcast Sports Net
x - 413 Fox Sports Network Atlantic
x - 414 Fox Sports Central
x - 415 Fox Sports Pacific
x - 482 Black Family Channel
x - 484 Great American Country
x - 486 The Word
x - 517 Encore East
x - 533 Starz East
x - 550 HBO East
x - 556 HBO Family East
x - 562 Cinemax East
x - 575 Showtime East
x - 579 Showtime Showcase East

x - 122 Toon Disney
x - 126 Nick Toons
x - 128 Bloomberg News
x - 135 MTV 2
x - 137 Trio
x - 138 Wisdom
x - 183 E! Style
x - 215 Nick GAS
222 FIT TV - Not in Fremont Lineup
x - 230 Trinity Broadcast Network
x - 231 Inspirational Life
x - 275 A&E Biography Channel
x - 276 A&E History Channel International
x - 406 Outdoor Channel
x - 418 CSTV
x - 476 Fuse
x - 504 Lifetime Movies
x - 506 Fox Movies
x - 558 HBO Latino
x - 600 Utilisima
x - 601 Discovery en Espanol
x - 602 Fox Sports World Espan
x - 603 Telemundo Inter
x - 604 Cinelatino
x - 605 VH1 en Espanol
x - 606 MTV Espanol
x - 608 CNN en Espanol
x - 609 Toon Disney en Espanol
x - 610 HTV Musica
x - 851 Spice
x - 941 Musica Latina
x - 942 Salsa Y Merengue
x - 943 Rock en Espanol
x - 944 Latin Love Songs (POP latino now)
x - 945 Mexicana (90's now)

So we have all of phase 1 and phase 2 done in Fremont. In Fremont they have converted 603,639,615, 627 and 711 Mhz

Can you beleive all those channels fit in 5 analog channels and now with 256QAM they have room to fit more on those channels!

The PPV channels from 802 to 814 have also been removed as promised. Lots of BW being free'ed up.

Kevin

Same here in South Bay.
603 Phase1

615 Phase2
627 Phase2
639 Phase2 (delayed Phase1)
759 Phase2

Freq QAM256
603 x 164 Shop NBC
639 x2 182 Fine Living
639 x2 400 Comcast Sports Net
603 x 413 Fox Sports Network Atlantic
603 x 414 Fox Sports Central
603 x 415 Fox Sports Pacific
603 x 482 Black Family Channel
603 x 484 Great American Country
603 x 486 The Word
639 x2 517 Encore East
639 x2 533 Starz East
639 x2 550 HBO East
639 x2 556 HBO Family East
639 x2 562 Cinemax East
639 x2 575 Showtime East
639 x2 579 Showtime Showcase East

* Phase 2 - June 1st & June 15th

615 x2 122 Toon Disney
627 x2 126 Nick Toons
627 x2 128 Bloomberg News
615 x2 135 MTV 2
615 x2 137 Trio
627 x2 138 Wisdom
615 x2 183 E! Style
615 x2 215 Nick GAS
627 x2 222 FIT TV
627 x2 230 Trinity Broadcast Network
627 x2 231 Inspirational Life
615 x2 275 A&E Biography Channel
615 x2 276 A&E History Channel International
627 x2 406 Outdoor Channel
627 x2 418 CSTV
615 x2 476 Fuse
615 x2 504 Lifetime Movies
627 x2 506 Fox Movies
759 x2 558 HBO Latino
759 x2 600 Utilisima (CCLUB)
759 x2 601 Discovery en Espanol
759 x2 602 Fox Sports World Espan
759 x2 603 Telemundo Inter (52MX)
759 x2 604 Cinelatino
759 x2 605 VH1 en Espanol (THCSP)
759 x2 606 MTV Espanol
759 x2 608 CNN en Espanol
759 x2 609 Toon Disney en Espanol
759 x2 610 HTV Musica
627 x2 851 Spice
759 x2 941 Musica Latina
759 x2 942 Salsa Y Merengue
759 x2 943 Rock en Espanol
759 x2 944 Latin Love Songs
759 x2 945 Mexicana

What advantage is this conversion to 256QAM supposed to give us besides freeing up some bandwidth?

What advantage is this conversion to 256QAM supposed to give us besides freeing up some bandwidth?
If converting QAM64 to QAM256 is all they do, then there is no advantage, but the hope is with the extra bandwidth they increase the frame sizes or bitrates for some channels (ie bettter PQ) or they add more HD channels. Those wouldn't be possible w/o the extra bandwidth, but it is by no means guaranteed that is how the bandwidth will be used. It will also help 550Mhz systems which are low on bandwidth to start.

The rumor right now is the extra bandwidth will initially be used to "digital simulcast" the analog channels, possibly freeing up more analog channels if they can be dropped sometime in the future.

If converting QAM64 to QAM256 is all they do, then there is no advantage, but the hope is with the extra bandwidth they increase the frame sizes or bitrates for some channels (ie bettter PQ) or they add more HD channels. Those wouldn't be possible w/o the extra bandwidth, but it is by no means guaranteed that is how the bandwidth will be used. It will also help 550Mhz systems which are low on bandwidth to start.

The rumor right now is the extra bandwidth will initially be used to "digital simulcast" the analog channels, possibly freeing up more analog channels if they can be dropped sometime in the future.
All the above plus VOD, Comcast is REALLY BIG on VOD, anytime you hear Roberts talk to investors, he's sure to talk about VOD, he's convinced it's going to bring Comcast big money...in fact, he bet a partnered purchase of the MGM library on it...we'll see..

Just got my Comcast DVR HD box. Awesome!!

VOD is pretty neat, I was skeptical at first, but I find myself using it almost every day (for the free stuff, not PPV though). Too bad there isn't more HD on it, but oh well. If it means they can free up b/w (I just got a note in the mail saying they are dropping a bunch of PPV channels) then I guess it's a good thing.

I think VOD is pretty much the way of the future. There are already portals showing up on the Internet where independent filmmakers can put their videos and the portal will take care of the business transactions. This is the same model that exists for shareware software authors. The same portals could also be used for cable VOD giving us a broad array of programming where you only pay for what you want to see. Good-bye to those freeloading networks we never watch that we subsidize with our subscription fees.

VOD is pretty neat, I was skeptical at first, but I find myself using it almost every day (for the free stuff, not PPV though). Too bad there isn't more HD on it, but oh well. If it means they can free up b/w (I just got a note in the mail saying they are dropping a bunch of PPV channels) then I guess it's a good thing.
Yes, the concept is pretty cool, but, depending on the implementation(bandwidth requirements) and the value(cost to customer) I'm remaining skeptical until it's fully deployed. If it uses BW that otherwise could be used for another HD channel, or to maintain good PQ on existing channels, then I'm not that thrilled with the idea. Likewise, the cost will be a big factor, personally I can't see myself spending more than $2 for the most expensive offering they have and just maybe 25 to 50 cents for anything that's from one of the networks that's already aired. In fact 50 cents would be too much. $5 or $6 for HD movies will be a non-starter in this household, even more so when HD-DVD hits the market.

Now, say a $5 to $10 a month subscription to access the total VOD library, that would be something that I might be interested in.

VOD is real cool. Biggest anti-productivity thing in the office since the Interweb. I'm hooked on Tube Time, all the TV shows from my teen years with no commercials to snap you out of it.

I just have a problem with the name. VOD sounds like an STD. "Hey, the cable guy was over today and now I have VOD".

"On Demand" is not that good either. If you have Cocmast Internet, there is a feature called "The Fan" (another not so good name, IMHO) that is . . video on demand. Short clips to watch, a sampling of whats on cable, news, etc. Should standardize both interfaces and come up with a new name.

I finally (!!) have a 6412 in my home. Heeeere we go, learning the fam on using the latest doohicky that I force them to watch TV through.

Many of us have had "VOD" for 3+ years running, independent of C*, D*, E*.

We just put in ReplayTV server farms (5+ ReplayTVs) and record everything
under the sun. Anything we have the least bit inkling to watch gets recorded.

Terabytes of storage, instantly accessible from any room or computer in the house
(through IP streaming). We load up our DVD library so those are accessible also.

Basically it is 90% the same as VOD, except we control what shows up in the
lineup and we can keep shows around as long as we want. If we want to keep
the whole season of Alias and watch it in the summer, no problem. The Replays
are so much faster and responsive than onDemand.

If we miss a show we can get it sent to us within minutes (if it's a new popular
show), but it'll take a day to arrive.

Basically, imagine a Motorola 6412 in every room of the house, with the recorded
shows available in every room of the house, plus ability to load up your own
shows or home movies, and access to show library in case you missed a show.

Forgive me if this is a question that has been answered in the past. I'm new to this forum, did a quick search and didn't seem to find a staight forward answer.

I have a new digital tuner that is capable of receiving in the clear QAM broadcasts.
Earlier this week I was getting DiscoveryHD, INHD and INHD2 when the box was attached to my cable (without a cablecard). Now those stations, plus some other "digital rebroadcast" stations have disappeared and can't be found again by the tuner.

Any ideas as to whether this is due to encryption, the conversion or both?

Thanks

sjyang

Many of us have had "VOD" for 3+ years running, independent of C*, D*, E*.

We just put in ReplayTV server farms (5+ ReplayTVs) and record everything
under the sun....Terabytes of storage, instantly accessible from any room or computer in the house....sfhub--

Because of the twin barriers of up-front cost and setup complexity, I doubt that C*, D*, or E* have much to worry about regarding lost business to your "many". ;)

Forgive me if this is a question that has been answered in the past. I'm new to this forum, did a quick search and didn't seem to find a staight forward answer.

I have a new digital tuner that is capable of receiving in the clear QAM broadcasts.
Earlier this week I was getting DiscoveryHD, INHD and INHD2 when the box was attached to my cable (without a cablecard). Now those stations, plus some other "digital rebroadcast" stations have disappeared and can't be found again by the tuner.

Any ideas as to whether this is due to encryption, the conversion or both?

Thanks

sjyang

Encryption of those channels has been an ongoing thing in every area. Sometimes they encrypt sometimes not. They may come back for you or they may not. Those channels are part of the digital tier so if you have to have them, you have to buy them.

sfhub,

All I can imagine is the "look" I would get from my wife as put all that in

Encryption of those channels has been an ongoing thing in every area. Sometimes they encrypt sometimes not. They may come back for you or they may not. Those channels are part of the digital tier so if you have to have them, you have to buy them.

If you pay for the digital tier, do you know if you can continue to use your existing digital tuner or do you have to rent Comcast's.

peter

sfhub--

Because of the twin barriers of up-front cost and setup complexity, I doubt that C*, D*, or E* have much to worry about regarding lost business to your "many". ;)
Oh, I have no doubt that they have nothing to worry about. :) :)

I was trying to say that PVRs like Motorola 64xx can give you the appearance
of VOD with a very simple setup of plugging in an ethernet cable into the 6412
box. I mean this from a technical standpoint, as they don't really support this
feature, but I recall it was on their todo list. Personally I prefer to create the
VOD library on my side, rather than depending on what Comcast decides to offer.

The response times and guide management is also much faster when done
locally. I think eventually the onDemand stuff will catch up, but I felt such a
let down when using onDemand after being spoiled with local "onDemand"
for so long. I mean, I could live with it if there was no other option, but this
onDemand has the potential to be so much more.

Instead of streaming playback from Comcast server, the onDemand could just
send you the popular shows and store them locally on your 6412 HD so when
you playback, it feel like a local playback, because it is. They can still do all their
payment stuff, just change the pointer to do local playback.

Actually the setup was relatively simple with Analog cable. It is only with this
digital TV, STBs, and CableCard where it gets complicated.

This isn't really a knock on onDemand, more of a "it could be so much more"
and if you are impressed with onDemand right now, think of all it could be.
A bunch of us with streaming PVRs need to step back in functionality when
we move to Motorola 6412 or onDemand, but I guess in return we get HD
recording.

If you pay for the digital tier, do you know if you can continue to use your existing digital tuner or do you have to rent Comcast's.

peterYou need to use Comcast's gear (STB or cablecard) to view encrypted channels.

Any ideas as to whether this is due to encryption, the conversion or both?
In many areas the encryption was turned on for INHD1/INHD2/DISCHD just yesterday (after a few weeks to months of being off), but it has always been an on/off thing as they seem to like to experiment with encryption and changing RF frequencies every once in a while.

I think the only channels you can really depend on not being encrypted are the locals.

Instead of streaming playback from Comcast server, the onDemand could just
send you the popular shows and store them locally on your 6412 HD so when
you playback, it feel like a local playback, because it is. They can still do all their
payment stuff, just change the pointer to do local playback.

This is the premise behind DirecTV's plan for VOD, they'll give you an STB with x-amount of HDD space but a portion of it will be reserved for DL'ed VOD material. The storage capacities I've seen mentioned are pretty anemic though, so it will be interesting to see how well it works.

VOD can be a great product, but as I've said before, it really is going to have to find a price point and so far the prices I've seen mentioned are far too high.

Encryption of those channels has been an ongoing thing in every area. Sometimes they encrypt sometimes not. They may come back for you or they may not. Those channels are part of the digital tier so if you have to have them, you have to buy them.
Discovery-HD and ESPN-HD have been in the clear in Santa Rosa for the couple of months that I've had the cable hooked directly to the display. It may have been longer. In fact the only thing that is encrypted is the HD movie channels, and of course the digital channels.

Haven't even been using the CableCARD, I'm sending it back..

sfhub,

All I can imagine is the "look" I would get from my wife as put all that in
You mean she would object to something like this, :D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/computer_room.gif

Sorry for the rookie nature of my question, but I'm definitely a newbie here. Moving into a place in Menlo Park. Trying to figure out if I should use Comcast, DirectTV, or Dish to maximize my HD channel availbability. I don't mind putting up one HD antenna but I'm definitely not into installing 10 of them and fine-tuning them on a weekly basis. Based on that, it seems like Comcast with HD subscription would be the way to go to maximize the number of HD channels I get in a cost effective way. Does anybody disagree? Are there other options I should consider?

Again, I apologize for such a newbie question but I am a newbie here.

Sorry for the rookie nature of my question, but I'm definitely a newbie here. Moving into a place in Menlo Park. Trying to figure out if I should use Comcast, DirectTV, or Dish to maximize my HD channel availbability. I don't mind putting up one HD antenna but I'm definitely not into installing 10 of them and fine-tuning them on a weekly basis. Based on that, it seems like Comcast with HD subscription would be the way to go to maximize the number of HD channels I get in a cost effective way. Does anybody disagree? Are there other options I should consider?

Again, I apologize for such a newbie question but I am a newbie here.

An option you could consider as a cable/satellite alternative is OTA. If you :

(i) don't view a lot of stations that are "cable/satellite" delivered (e.g. ESPN, Discovery, Showtime & HBO) and watch mainly network television; and
(ii) have a clear line of sight to Mt. Sutro (where the main TV broadcast antenna is).

You could opt for an OTA antenna. From where I am in San Jose, I get approximately 70 digital broadcast stations (all the major networks) (about 15 I'd actually watch).

I'm a fan of not paying for what is supposed to be free.

sjyang

Oh, I have no doubt that they have nothing to worry about. :) :)

I was trying to say that PVRs like Motorola 64xx can give you the appearance
of VOD with a very simple setup of plugging in an ethernet cable into the 6412
box. I mean this from a technical standpoint, as they don't really support this
feature, but I recall it was on their todo list. Personally I prefer to create the
VOD library on my side, rather than depending on what Comcast decides to offer.



This one looks interesting,

• On the set-top front, Motorola Inc. debuted its new all-digital box, the “DCT3412,” the companion to its “DCT6412” series.

The DCT3412 is an all-digital, dual-tuner HD digital-video recorder with a Data Over Cable Service Interface Specification signaling gateway, which Motorola was positioning as the center device in its whole-house platform. Motorola said MSOs could configure the set-top to have hard drives ranging from 120 gigabytes to 320 GB.

The set-top was shown as the centerpiece to Motorola’s Ucentric Digital Home Platform. The platform supports OpenCable Application Platform applications, the company said.


http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA608653.html?display=Features&referral=SUPP
Multichannel News: The Cable Industry Book-of-Record

. Likewise, the cost will be a big factor, personally I can't see myself spending more than $2 for the most expensive offering they have and just maybe 25 to 50 cents for anything that's from one of the networks that's already aired. In fact 50 cents would be too much. $5 or $6 for HD movies will be a non-starter in this household, even more so when HD-DVD hits the market.

Now, say a $5 to $10 a month subscription to access the total VOD library, that would be something that I might be interested in.

They are charging $6 for an HD movie now. DirecTV "only" charges $5. However, they only have 1 HD PPV channel. Looks like Comcast has about 3. We haven't upgraded D* to HD - waiting to see if they come out w. more HD. In the meantime, may upgrade out BEV (Canadian DBS) HD system (we have their HD box w.o. PVR) to their HD PVR box when it comes out next month. They have the most HD of anyone - more than 15 channels incl. at least 3 HD PPV. They charge $5Cdn for HD as i recall. I haven't ordered any from anyone.

...mike

I asked this a bit ago, but has anyone heard about TNT-HD coming to the bay area. I keep calling an complaing about NOT having it. I would really like to see it before TNT's special "into the west" is over. That's a program that screams for HD. Also, the SD feed on my 73'' mits is really poor...

Best,
jeff

I know that KCSM is now a strictly digital channel OTA but it is on Ch. 17 of my Comcast cable from the Concord headend I believe. I assume, therefore, that Comcast is taking the ATSC stream and converting it into NTSC.

I have a MDP-130 with a QAM tuner that doesn't do analogue capture well. It there a digital channel on Comcast (not scrambled) that carries KCSM?

- Phil

I know that KCSM is now a strictly digital channel OTA but it is on Ch. 17 of my Comcast cable from the Concord headend I believe. I assume, therefore, that Comcast is taking the ATSC stream and converting it into NTSC.

I have a MDP-130 with a QAM tuner that doesn't do analogue capture well. It there a digital channel on Comcast (not scrambled) that carries KCSM?

- Phil

Hi Phil

There is no Digital version on KCSM on Comcast yet. They are in the process of implementing Digital simulcast which will simulcast all the analog channels digitally. I have no idea if they will be in the clear or not on the broadcast channels. I guess you will have to check in 3 months or so.

Kevin

re FSNBA+ and the Comcast cable guide. I have noticed that sometimes, including today, that baseball games shown on FSNBA+ are not listed on the Comcast Program guide, making it hard to record them on the DVR. They are also not listed on my ReplayTV guide. A call to Comcast produced the answer that "the channel varies too much to list it." The detailed answer is that the Giants-Diamondbacks game will be on channel 32 from 7-10pm tonight (at least in Moraga), and is not available in HD. On other occasions when the game wasn't listed, it sometimes showed up on one of the IndHD channels. Seems to me that maintaining the program guide should not be so hard that programs go unlisted. If in fact there is a technical limitation that makes it hard or impossible for the currently configured channel guide to keep up, maybe Comcast could put it on the web somewhere? I can see the point to unlisted phone numbers, but unlisted baseball channels?

Also, the SD feed on my 73'' mits is really poor...

Best,
jeff
I hear that, I've been watching a few SD shows(The Shield, Rescue Me, etc.) on DirecTV with the signal ran through a DVDO HD+ and it still looks just OK. The Comcast PQ for the same shows is just hideous.

I believe the problem is that the converter downloads the guides 2-3 days ahead of time (looking ahead 2-3 days) so if something changes or is pre-empted only a day or 2 prior to air, it's too late to make it into the guide...

re FSNBA+ and the Comcast cable guide. I have noticed that sometimes, including today, that baseball games shown on FSNBA+ are not listed on the Comcast Program guide, making it hard to record them on the DVR. They are also not listed on my ReplayTV guide. A call to Comcast produced the answer that "the channel varies too much to list it." The detailed answer is that the Giants-Diamondbacks game will be on channel 32 from 7-10pm tonight (at least in Moraga), and is not available in HD. On other occasions when the game wasn't listed, it sometimes showed up on one of the IndHD channels. Seems to me that maintaining the program guide should not be so hard that programs go unlisted. If in fact there is a technical limitation that makes it hard or impossible for the currently configured channel guide to keep up, maybe Comcast could put it on the web somewhere? I can see the point to unlisted phone numbers, but unlisted baseball channels?
It comes down to the degree of commitment Comcast has regarding the listings, apparently they don't care. I would contact FSNBA and tell them you are having trouble seeing their product because Comcast doesn't feel it's important enough to list. The FSNBA site and the sites for the ball clubs themselves probably has the best information. The bit about the schedule changing sound bogus to me as I believe these broadcasts are divvied up and settled on before the season starts.

I hear that, I've been watching a few SD shows(The Shield, Rescue Me, etc.) on DirecTV with the signal ran through a DVDO HD+ and it still looks just OK. The Comcast PQ for the same shows is just hideous.

Funny I have Dish and Comcast and the Comcast analog is better since Dish is only 480 x 480. Not much better, My analog is really good on comcast, best I've ever seen cable. It took a lot of CSR calls to get it to this quality :)

Of course Dish has TNT-HD to I don't look at the SD other than to play.

Funny I have Dish and Comcast and the Comcast analog is better since Dish is only 480 x 480. Not much better, My analog is really good on comcast, best I've ever seen cable. It took a lot of CSR calls to get it to this quality :)

Of course Dish has TNT-HD to I don't look at the SD other than to play.
Yeah, I'm going to feed the DVDO unit from the Comcast box with an S-video signal and see what I can get it to look like. For some reason I haven't even thought of it until now, probably because I've been watching so little SD material, but there's nothing on the major nets during the summer.

Just a quick up date for the people of SaraMilgatos.

The phase 3 upgrades for 64 to 256 QAM which starts tomorrow is already done. I just checked all the channels ( that we have in our area and were scheduled to be upgraded ) and they all have been switched to 256 QAM. Normally, when I post here it's to bitch at Comcast, I guess it's time to give some kudos when they are do :)
So, Mr. J , when does phase 4 start ??? :)

Laters,
Mikef5

Just a quick up date for the people of SaraMilgatos.

The phase 3 upgrades for 64 to 256 QAM which starts tomorrow is already done. I just checked all the channels ( that we have in our area and were scheduled to be upgraded ) and they all have been switched to 256 QAM. Normally, when I post here it's to bitch at Comcast, I guess it's time to give some kudos when they are do :)
So, Mr. J , when does phase 4 start ??? :)

Laters,
Mikef5

I looked a little earlier today in Rohnert Park and the switch had not taken place yet. I'll look again tomorrow.

So far, the "upgrades" appear to me to be no BFD. The few remaining unencrypted QAM SD stations are still too poor in quality to take seriously (i.e., based on what I can see, I wouldn't pay a nickel to subscribe to any SD "digital" service, let alone the royal subscription fees I've seen advertised) and INHD, INHD2, and DISC-HD have gone MIA. Pretty lame "upgrade" IMO. I'm this close to dropping my (basic) Comcast service altogether.

Just a quick up date for the people of SaraMilgatos.

The phase 3 upgrades for 64 to 256 QAM which starts tomorrow is already done. I just checked all the channels ( that we have in our area and were scheduled to be upgraded ) and they all have been switched to 256 QAM. Normally, when I post here it's to bitch at Comcast, I guess it's time to give some kudos when they are do :)
So, Mr. J , when does phase 4 start ??? :)

Laters,
Mikef5

All of phase 3 completed in Fremont too :) Now what is next, there are not that many frequencies left. Bring on the DS.

After a slow start Comcast seem to be running ahead of schedule now.

Kevin

From the San Francisco Chronicle June 23, 2005

Comcast to restore 30 FM radio stations
Some would pay $5 fee for receiver for digital system

Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer

After months of complaints from Comcast customers angry at losing free FM radio service, the cable giant has reversed course and will offer a digital equivalent for residents looking to tune in to their favorite stations.

Comcast said it will offer about 30 free radio stations throughout the Bay Area for subscribers to its digital system. Basic cable subscribers will need to pay $5 a month to pay for a digital receiver to get the FM signal.

About one-third of Comcast's Bay Area customers lost free FM radio in the past year, after the company chose to pull the plug on it in favor of providing more popular features like high-definition television and video on demand.

The move sparked a wave of criticism from some residents in areas like hilly Marin County, where the service was the only way of receiving an FM station.

"On balance, I think it's a good thing that Comcast, a huge company, listened to the community and is restoring the FM stations that people care about to cable," said Pete Franck, chairman of Media Action Marin, which fought hard to restore the service.

Comcast spokesman Andrew Johnson said the free FM radio feature ranked low on customer surveys but shot up to the top five after customers in Marin began protesting in February.

He said the new service must clear some hurdles, regulatory and technical, but should be ready to go sometime in September.

"We said all along we would respond to our customers' demands and deliver the services they want," Johnson said. "It would be counter to that if we said we wouldn't be willing to bring this back."

FM radio, which has been offered by local cable operators for more than 20 years, was targeted by Comcast because it took away available bandwidth that could be used or HDTV or video-on-demand services.

Comcast said it solved its bandwidth concerns by putting the FM service on digital cable, where radio signals don't require as much space. This freed up room and allows for about seven more stations, but forces basic subscribers to pay an additional $5 a month for a digital receiver.

Comcast is using radio ratings and reader surveys to determine which 30 stations will end up on the system.

While some customers worried about the added cost of the service or the eventual lineup of stations, many were just pleased that their dark days in radio silence may be coming to an end.

"It's been terrible," said Tom Kearney, 60, of Healdsburg. "With regular radio, you get some local stations that have hoedown music but no classical or jazz music. I haven't turned the radio on in several months. It will make a big difference."

E-mail Ryan Kim at rkim@sfchronicle.com.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/23/BUG9LDDCBN1.DTL&feed=rss.business
Comcast to restore 30 FM radio stations / Some would pay $5 fee for receiver for digital system

Update for Phase 4 and 5 of the 64 to 256 QAM change over. This is directly from Mr. Johnson of Comcast and he has allowed me to post it here.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is Phase 4 and Phase 5 schedule. You are welcome to post this
information on the Forum.

Phase 4 -

7/13/05 to 7/27/05

201 Discovery Home and Leisure
241 TFC
243 Zhong Tian
244 CCTV4
245 TV Japan
246 Zee TV
247 TV Asia
248 SBTN
251 CCTV-9 INTL
252 TV5 French TV
254 RAI (RADIO)
255 RTN (Russian TV Net)
256 ET-News
257 ET-Global
258 ET-Yoyo
259 ET-China
260 ET-Drama
261 Set TV
262 Jade
271 Discovery Times
273 National Geographic
274 Military Channel
408 SpeedVision
471 VH-1 Country
473 VH-1 Classic Rock
516 WAM East
538 Starz Cinema East
539 Starz Kids & Family East
540 Starz! Comedy East
559 HBO Comedy East
560 HBO Zone East
566 Action Max East
567 Thriller Max East
583 Showtime Next East
584 Showtime Family East
585 Showtime Women East
586 Flix East
611 Video Rola
612 Sorpresa
613 Latin TV
614 Vida Vision
615 Canal Sur
616 Infinito
617 Grandes Documentales
618 Gol TV
903 Classic Country
907 Classic R&B
910 Metal
911 Rock
912 Arena Rock
916 Dance
918 Soft Rock
920 Party Favorites
921 80s
922 Retro Active
923 70s
925 Singers & Standards
926 Big Band & Swing
928 Smooth Jazz
931 Reggae
932 Soundscapes
936 Showtunes
937 Contemporary Christian
939 Radio Disney
940 Sounds of the Seasons


Phase 5
8/3/05 to 8/17/05

Display Channel Programming
64 VH-1 West
65 Comedy Central West
66 E! West
441 NBA PPV 1
442 NBA PPV 2
443 NBA PPV 3
444 NBA PPV 4
445 NBA PPV 5
446 NBA PPV 6
447 NBA PPV 7
448 NBA PPV 8
449 NBA PPV 9
450 NBA PPV 10
451 NBA PPV 11
461 NHL/MLB PPV 1
462 NHL/MLB PPV 2
463 NHL/MLB PPV 3
464 NHL/MLB PPV 4
465 NHL/MLB PPV 5
466 NHL/MLB PPV 6
467 NHL/MLB PPV 7
468 NHL/MLB PPV 8
469 NHL/MLB PPV 9
470 NHL/MLB PPV 10

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As soon as I get more info on the digital simulcasting I will post it here.

Laters,
Mikef5

Phase 5
8/3/05 to 8/17/05

Display Channel Programming
64 VH-1 West
65 Comedy Central West
66 E! West


Thanks Mikef5

Interesting they say they are converting VH-1 West etc. They are analog and they are not the channel numbers I get. I know it is different on every cable system. I wonder is that means then are starting with DS on those.

Kevin

I'm in SF, and have the 6412 with no more problems than should be expected(!).

I'm thinking of switching from DSL to Comcast's high-speed internet.

Two questions:

1. Will this degrade my HD signal?

2. OK, this is where I'm stumped. I now have a wireless network set up. Comcast tells me that all of their offers ($19.99 per month for 6 months, free self install) don't apply to me; they only apply if I have one computer. I have to take off work, pay them $160 to come out and install a new modem with built in router, throw away my perfectly good netgear router, and pay $5 per month extra (on top of the $150 extra for not getting the discount rate for 6 months).

Huh? Can I just pretend to have one computer and go ahead and set this up myself? I don't need a new router, thank you very much, and don't need their help setting up a nework I've already set up (or do I???). Also, one of my computers is not wireless and is not anywhere near the cable, so I'd have to have them install more cable, which my landlord would not be thrilled about (I have a long ethernet cable that I could run from the modem to my wired computer).

I've heard that they automatically update the router firmware from time to time, which gives me pause. Would they send the firmware upgrade to me if they thought I only had one computer hooked up? I imagine this would mess up my netgear router, right?

Anyway, any personal experiences would be appreciated.

Jim

1. Will this degrade my HD signal?


Not likely unless you are right on the borderline. Remember with HD and all digital the picture is either perfect or not there at all. You would have to check the signal level to know if you are going to get any "tiling" when you split the signal.

You can split it now without the cable modem to test.


2. OK, this is where I'm stumped. I now have a wireless network set up. Comcast tells me that all of their offers ($19.99 per month for 6 months, free self install) don't apply to me; they only apply if I have one computer. I have to take off work, pay them $160 to come out and install a new modem with built in router, throw away my perfectly good netgear router, and pay $5 per month extra (on top of the $150 extra for not getting the discount rate for 6 months).

Huh? Can I just pretend to have one computer and go ahead and set this up myself? I don't need a new router, thank you very much, and don't need their help setting up a nework I've already set up (or do I???). Also, one of my computers is not wireless and is not anywhere near the cable, so I'd have to have them install more cable, which my landlord would not be thrilled about (I have a long ethernet cable that I could run from the modem to my wired computer).

Jim

The home networking is for people who cannot configure the router themselves. Just tell them you have one computer and set it up yourself.

Kevin

The home networking is for people who cannot configure the router themselves. Just tell them you have one computer and set it up yourself.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin. So the reports of firmware upgrades messing up routers shouldn't concern me?

Thanks Kevin. So the reports of firmware upgrades messing up routers shouldn't concern me?

No, defintely not. They cannot update past the cable modem.

The only router firmware they update is the intergrated cable modem / routers.

Is there a cable run already in your computer room? If so, it shouldn't degrade the signal at all. If they need to split off a new line, just have them check all the signal strengths. It shouldn't be a problem.

As far as home networking, what they don't know won't hurt em.... Just make sure your wireless is secure, please...

Is there a cable run already in your computer room? If so, it shouldn't degrade the signal at all. If they need to split off a new line, just have them check all the signal strengths. It shouldn't be a problem.

As far as home networking, what they don't know won't hurt em.... Just make sure your wireless is secure, please...

The cable will be split, but I'm retiring my ReplayTV :( to hook this up so the cable's already split; signal strength to HD seems fine. But I'm doing a self-install so I won't have them there to test the strength.

As far as secure goes, my network's password protected and encrypted, but secure. . . .? I'm sure it could be better.

zooey - You may want to call SBC, and see if you are eligible for the "pro" service. It's twice as fast as their standard DSL for only $25/month. A good friend has Comcast internet, and it's pretty expensive, like $45/mo or something, and it's always going down.

It's $40.95/mo (or $43.95 if you lease their modem) for 4M/384k. Good luck getting that from DSL...

We have SBC DSL at work and it's $42.47/mo for 1.5M/384k - and I get more like 1.1M down.

Neither is "always going down".

It's $40.95/mo (or $43.95 if you lease their modem) for 4M/384k. Good luck getting that from DSL...

We have SBC DSL at work and it's $42.47/mo for 1.5M/384k - and I get more like 1.1M down.

Neither is "always going down".

You might want to check out Sonic Net, www.sonic.net , I subscribe to their 6M/384k package ( dynamic connection ) for $49.95 plus taxes. I've only had one problem and that was with my old Alcatel modem, once I changed that out, I've had no problems at all. Your mileage may vary but it's worth a shot.

Laters,
Mikef5

It's $40.95/mo (or $43.95 if you lease their modem) for 4M/384k. Good luck getting that from DSL...

....I have Verizon DSL. It's 3.0M/768k (was 1.5M/384k before recent upgrade) and only costs $29.95 per month. It has gone down once in the last year and that was only for a few hours.
:D

Oh I forgot to mention that the combination modem/wireless router is free.

Thanks for all the responses. I'm not eligible for speeds much faster than 384/192 with my DSL, no matter who the company is. Otherwise I would have gone with Sonic.net a year ago.

Comcast is delivering the modem & self-install kit tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be in business for much faster connections and fewer headaches than with my current ISP.

At $19.99 per month for the first 6 months, and then $43.95 (still cheaper than my current plan), it's hard to pass up. :cool:

Hopefully there won't be too much down time.

Jim

Thanks for all the responses. I'm not eligible for speeds much faster than 384/192 with my DSL, no matter who the company is. Otherwise I would have gone with Sonic.net a year ago.

Comcast is delivering the modem & self-install kit tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be in business for much faster connections and fewer headaches than with my current ISP.

At $19.99 per month for the first 6 months, and then $43.95 (still cheaper than my current plan), it's hard to pass up. :cool:

Hopefully there won't be too much down time.

Jim

I've had their HSI for 4 years and it has been down about 3 times. You will enjoy the service. They had some issues after the last speed upgrade but they got them resolved.

Anyway back to HDTV over comcast!

Couple of shots showing the size of the 700.

DCT 700 in hand (http://imageserver4.textamerica.com/user.images.x/41/IMG_369841/Big/_0625/TZ200625100051233.jpg)

DCT 700 & Pen (http://imageserver4.textamerica.com/user.images.x/41/IMG_369841/Big/_0625/TZ200625100052624.jpg)

Couple of shots showing the size of the 700.

DCT 700 in hand (http://imageserver4.textamerica.com/user.images.x/41/IMG_369841/Big/_0625/TZ200625100051233.jpg)

DCT 700 & Pen (http://imageserver4.textamerica.com/user.images.x/41/IMG_369841/Big/_0625/TZ200625100052624.jpg)
I'm pretty sure this is the box they deployed in the country's first all-digital system in Calaveras County recently.

I'm pretty sure this is the box they deployed in the country's first all-digital system in Calaveras County recently.

Yes it is. What is the BA doing with these??????? ;)

Yes it is. What is the BA doing with these??????? ;)


oh, the old wink ;)....you tease...

we sure would like to know why you have them in your warehouse....

I can't tell you how bad the Giants/A's Games look on Analog (when I know the 750+ areas are enjoying it in glorious HD on InHD/FSNBA)

I can't tell you how bad the Giants/A's Game looks on Analog (when I know the 750+ areas are enjoying it in glorious HD on InHD/FSNBA right now
Yeah, especially since DirecTV started a couple of days ago to show other regional FSNs' HD broadcasts of baseball nationwide...but since FSNBA is not a FOX property we of the low bandwidth and DirecTV get screwed twice... :mad:

I can't tell you how bad the Giants/A's Games look on Analog (when I know the 750+ areas are enjoying it in glorious HD on InHD/FSNBA)
Check 702, it looks like HD to me..

Check 702, it looks like HD to me..

yes...funny how the Giants looks even worse in HD though :eek:

Yes it is. What is the BA doing with these??????? ;)

Well after DS it is obvious. Maybe they are for the new "FM" service in Sept. Just guessing of course :)

I hope Comcast charge less for the "extra outlet" once the DCT-700 is deployed. $6.95 is just too high for me.

I seem to have lost several - but not all - of my music channels (913, 917, 924, and others) as of Friday in San Jose. All other channels are fine. Comcast has "hit" my box and I've rebooted the DVR to no avail. All I get is the dreaded "This channel will be available shortly" message. I'm wondering if this is a casualty of the current digital/QAM upgrade. Anyone else???

I seem to have lost several - but not all - of my music channels (913, 917, 924, and others) as of Friday in San Jose. All other channels are fine. Comcast has "hit" my box and I've rebooted the DVR to no avail. All I get is the dreaded "This channel will be available shortly" message. I'm wondering if this is a casualty of the current digital/QAM upgrade. Anyone else???

Sounds like it is a fall out of the QAM upgrade. Those channels are all at 256QAM now. A few premium channels will also be out. Try running a line directly from the drop and remove all the splitters. If that fixes it check the levels in the diag screen to see how close to the edge you are. SNR of 32db I would get them out. If it is above check all your wiring.

If it does work with everything removed call comcast. One moment please is normally always a signal problem.

Kevin

Couple of shots showing the size of the 700.

DCT 700 in hand (http://imageserver4.textamerica.com/user.images.x/41/IMG_369841/Big/_0625/TZ200625100051233.jpg)

DCT 700 & Pen (http://imageserver4.textamerica.com/user.images.x/41/IMG_369841/Big/_0625/TZ200625100052624.jpg)

Am I the only one that thinks they should have provided S-video out on this thing? For an all digital cable system the S-video jack would provide a pretty good display. Look at DirectTV and DiskNetwork as examples, they have S-video on their low-end receivers.

Does Comcast really think that most of the TVs out there are soo old that they only have composite video jacks? Even my 83 year old mother-in-law's two little TVs have S-video.

:(

It's $40.95/mo (or $43.95 if you lease their modem) for 4M/384k. Good luck getting that from DSL...

I must be lucky, because I was getting 6M/608k for $48.95 with static IPs on DSL. Now I think you can get that speed, but with out the static for that price....

Of course you have to be in range, but it sure beats cable in my case.

Firmware update ??

I just noticed that my firmware has been updated to 9.19 from 9.15. Anyone else see this and just what is this suppose to help with ???

Laters,
Mikef5

We have 9.19 in Santa Rosa as well.

A couple people posted (on another forum) that they got it last night...nobody seems to know what it's for (and no reports of anybody noticing anything different..at least so far)

I must be lucky, because I was getting 6M/608k for $48.95 with static IPs on DSL. Now I think you can get that speed, but with out the static for that price....

Of course you have to be in range, but it sure beats cable in my case.

Reminds me of the old @home days (before they cap'd cable modems)

I was getting 8M/800k..and I think the limiting factor back than was my old harddrive....boy would it make a racket when I was downloading a big file ;)

A couple people posted (on another forum) that they got it last night...nobody seems to know what it's for (and no reports of anybody noticing anything different..at least so far)

The only reason that I noticed it was I had a program that I recorded late last night and it was interrupted by the firmware update. Wish there was someway that the upgrade would not happen when the hard drive was recording and allow an update after that but then again I wish I was 20 years younger and a multimillionaire :D

Laters,
Mikef5

Firmware update ??

I just noticed that my firmware has been updated to 9.19 from 9.15. Anyone else see this and just what is this suppose to help with ???

Laters,
Mikef5

There was some speculation that it fixes the remote delay problems. I guess some playing tonight is needed :)

Kevin

FW 9.19 downloaded in Novato California as of this morning.

update took aroound 45 minutes like nite for me. in fremont.

i was watching around 1:30am and BAM...

i had to watch via analog comcast.... :( ;)

then a couple hours later, internet went out too. then i went to sleep...

Anyone notice that "All of Us" was not shown in HD on KMAX (31.1) Monday night, although UPN broadcast in HD? Any explanations? Thanks.

Sounds like it is a fall out of the QAM upgrade. Those channels are all at 256QAM now. [snip]....check the levels in the diag screen to see how close to the edge you are. SNR of 32db


The diagnostic menu shows no SNR or AGC readings for the dead music channels.
It only says either "Invalid" or "Unavailable". It's like it's not even there to begin with.
All other channels seem fine, so I've gotta assume it's on Comcast's end as a result of the QAM upgrade.
Anyone else in the Bay Area lose any channels???

The diagnostic menu shows no SNR or AGC readings for the dead music channels.
It only says either "Invalid" or "Unavailable". It's like it's not even there to begin with.
All other channels seem fine, so I've gotta assume it's on Comcast's end as a result of the QAM upgrade.
Anyone else in the Bay Area lose any channels???
I lost 913 classic rock, but the other two I still have. They shifted RF frequency, so it is possible some type of virtual mapping did not get updated.

Mhz psip cbl qam
609 917 88.1 ADALT MUSC Adult Alternative (uncensored)
609 924 88.2 GOLDOLD MUSC Solid Gold Oldies

When I went through and deleted all these music channels from my direct feed to the display the other day I noticed that a bunch of them had nothing on them, no picture and no sound although the internal tuner mapped every one of them with a channel number.

I lost 913 classic rock, but the other two I still have. They shifted RF frequency, so it is possible some type of virtual mapping did not get updated.


Thanks so much for that, sfhub. Now I can go to Comcast
knowing that it's not just me and it's not on my end.

Thanks so much for that, sfhub. Now I can go to Comcast
knowing that it's not just me and it's not on my end.

I guess it shows how area specific some of the stuff it. I just finished checking mine again and they are all still working. They must be moving them around to make use of the extra 256QAM space.

Kevin

From Reuters,

http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/28/technology/comcast_starz.reut/index.htm?section=money_latest
Comcast, Starz strike video-on-demand deal - Jun. 28, 2005

Comcast expands on-demand movie menu

Cable operator will now offer its 8.9M customers 1,500 flicks a year from Starz Entertainment.
June 28, 2005: 9:12 AM EDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Comcast Corp. said Tuesday it has signed a deal that dramatically increases the number of on-demand movies available from cable network Starz Entertainment Group as it bolsters its digital cable service in an effort to stay ahead of competitors.

The top cable operator will now offer its 8.9 million digital cable customers 1,500 movies a year from the Liberty Media (up $0.03 to $10.25, Research)-owned cable network, making it the biggest offering of its kind by Comcast (up $0.15 to $31.15, Research).

Comcast and the cable industry face an unprecedented attack from satellite TV and phone companies seeking to lure customers this year.

"We see this as a tipping point in our overall video strategy," said Tim Fitzpatrick, a Comcast spokesman.

The cable industry is hoping that creating features unavailable from competing services, such as the ability to order movies at the click of a button, will help differentiate their service.

Current Starz and Encore subscribers will be able to watch 325 or 250 on-demand movies a month, respectively, and up to 1,500 movies per year at no additional monthly cost, Comcast said.

In contrast, a recent joint venture with Sony MGM will offer about 400 new movies a year.

Starz subscribers currently can view about 65 on-demand movies per month.

From Reuters,
http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/28/technology/comcast_starz.reut/index.htm?section=money_latest
Comcast, Starz strike video-on-demand deal - Jun. 28, 2005
Comcast expands on-demand movie menu
Cable operator will now offer its 8.9M customers 1,500 flicks a year from Starz Entertainment.


After the way that TNT-HD has turned out to be nothing more than a "pipe dream" for the Bay Area,
I'm really not going to assume we'll see anything that's nationally announced by Comcast again :(

Firmware update ??

I just noticed that my firmware has been updated to 9.19 from 9.15. Anyone else see this and just what is this suppose to help with ???

Laters,
Mikef5

Happened here about 2 AM Monday. I was watching a recorded program when it was interrupted and the box went into "dl" mode (download). Took about 20 minutes and then I checked and found Firmware 9.19 had been installed.

Also lost all my guide programming schedule information, took a few hours to recover.

This is in San Pablo-Albany-Kensington billing area.

Like others, I wonder what this is supposed to accomplish.

Anybody watch Empire on KGO last night? And if so, did you notice an audio/video sync problem with the video being ahead of the audio? This has happened before on Lost but it got corrected as the show continued.

Yes I noticed issues. Not Lip sync issue. I had tiling and total loss of audio several times in the last hour of the show. My channel is 707 so I switched to channel 709 (KQED) and noticed the problems happen on that one at the same time.

Out in livermore (comcast 707), the show was fine (no lipsync or tiling) until one time around 10:30 (give or take 10 min) there was a horrible screeching lasting about 5-10sec. then back to normal.

Best,
jeff

Anybody watch Empire on KGO last night? And if so, did you notice an audio/video sync problem with the video being ahead of the audio? This has happened before on Lost but it got corrected as the show continued.

Yep, In San Jose, I noticed it the entire time that I watched from around 9:30 to 11pm. I also heard the terrible "screeching" that greeno describes in another post. I kept waiting for KGO to fix it, but I guess not.......

The diagnostic menu shows no SNR or AGC readings for the dead music channels. It only says either "Invalid" or "Unavailable". It's like it's not even there to begin with.


As of this morning, it seems the previously lost channels are beginning to
return. There is music there now, but at such low SNR readings (poor) that the
tunes were recognizeable, but very unstable (in and out). Hopefully the signals
will get stronger as Comcast continues to address this problem.....

Yep, In San Jose, I noticed it the entire time that I watched from around 9:30 to 11pm. I also heard the terrible "screeching" that greeno describes in another post. I kept waiting for KGO to fix it, but I guess not.......
Okay, then it wasn't just me. It was especially noticeable when Marc Antony was walking in the room with all the senators telling them about the will, his bootsteps were out of sync with the sound they were making. I'll try calling KGO about it later today. The thing is though, I noticed it on the DirecTV KABC feed as well, although it wasn't as bad.

Okay, then it wasn't just me.

Nope, it wasn't just you.....and we are on different systems and headends.
I especially noticed it during the facial closeups when one could clearly see
that the lip movement was not in sync with the audio. KGO has usually been
pretty good about resolving these things in the past.

Anyone else having trouble with HD channels for NBC (703 - 11.1 - 116.1), ABC (707 - 7.1 -117.1) or KQED digital (709 - 9.1-5 - 117.2-5)? They are breaking up terribly here. Unwatchable. First noticed it about 3:00pm and it continues now at 5:20pm

You might as well call it in. They've done that twice to my node. Someone leaves some sweep test equipment running and it generates bursts of errors every 3 seconds resulting in tiling and audio breakups. It only happens on the QAM256 channels. You may or may not be seeing the same thing. It always happens after one of their "phase n" qam64->qam256 conversions. For my node, it also affects HSI as that runs on qam256.

Well it cleaned up after 8:00pm. I had called, and they said they were working in the area.
Guess that explains the problems. Also noticed that some more of the channels have been
converted to QAM256. But the errors were on channels that had been QAM256 already.
Oh well. Fortunately for me, this has never affected by HSI, at least not so that I noticed it.

Anyone notice that "All of Us" was not shown in HD on KMAX (31.1) Monday night, although UPN broadcast in HD? Any explanations? Thanks.

Bob Hess posted in the Sacramento OTA forum that UPN told them it wasn't broadcast in HD.

So, did anyone else see Toy Story tonite on ABC (707) in HD? What did you think?

Since it wasn't in HD OTA, I doubt that Comcast had an HD feed to forward. ;)

Since it wasn't in HD OTA, I doubt that Comcast had an HD feed to forward. ;)
I didn't watch it but apparently it was in HD. ABC Toy Story Thread (/www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=555069)

I didn't watch it but apparently it was in HD. ABC Toy Story Thread (/www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=555069)
I thought he was referring to another post. Yeah, Toy story was in HD here in Comcast SF, and the PQ was very nice too. I only watched part of it so I didn't see any errors or problems.

Need help from anyone in the Milpitas area.

There was a power outage last night which happened at about 9:30 pm and lasted about 5 to 10 minutes. When the power came back on both of my HD boxes lost everything and did not reset. I gave it until today, 10:00 am, to reset but nothing, the clock still says midnight and no guide data, can't even access my recorded material or switch tuners. Anyone in the Milpitas area have this problem or am I really going to have to turn in both my boxes ??? I've tried the power cycle reset fix and I actually called Comcast who couldn't even get the box to reset with their reset signal, to no avail. I'm just checking to see if maybe something in the loop got fried or if both of my boxes got fried, hard to believe since one of the boxes is on a surge protector. Any input would be appreciated.

Laters,
Mikef5

From SFGate.com (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/30/BUGU2DGR1K1.DTL&type=business)

S.F. considers cable TV deal

Supervisors may settle lawsuit, extend franchise

Ryan Kim, Chronicle Staff Writer
Thursday, June 30, 2005

The San Francisco Board of Supervisors is considering a deal to settle claims against Comcast and grant the cable company a four-year franchise extension.

Comcast last month hammered out a deal to settle a long-standing lawsuit between the city and former cable providers that failed to comply with previous franchise agreements. The deal also includes the four-year extension of the current agreement, which expires at the end of the year.

As part of the deal, the city will receive a one-time settlement fee of $3.5 million along with about $4.4 million in public access, education and government funding over four years. This would be in addition to the $517,000 in franchise fees the city receives annually from Comcast.

The agreement, which has drawn criticism from local media watchdog groups, is expected to be voted on in the coming weeks.

Critics like Media Alliance of Oakland say the deal is not equitable for consumers, who, they say, have not had adequate time to comment on what additional services they would like in a future franchise agreement.

Sydney Levy, program director for Media Alliance, said the agreement was made while the city was midway through a series of community meetings intended to assess what residents want from Comcast. He said the deal not only ignores community concerns but also locks the city into a bad agreement that doesn't include enough public access funding from Comcast and doesn't address the future of public access channels.

"What's wrong with this agreement is that we're getting an extension, not a renewal, so we're getting four more years of a faulty franchise," said Levy.

City officials said the deal was struck because it locks in funding for public access channels for the next four years. During that time, the city can negotiate a long-term deal.

Brian Roberts, a policy analyst in the city's telecommunications department, said many other cities like Los Angeles and San Jose have gone years with an expired franchise agreement while negotiating a new contract and couldn't gain interim concessions from their cable provider.

Comcast spokesman Andrew Johnson said the deal is generous for the city and provides a strong source of funding for public access, education and government programming.

"We obviously feel that this deal is win-win for both sides," said Johnson. "This locks in for the next four years increased financial contributions to (public access, education and government) channels over and above what they're getting at no small cost to us."

The matter, which has not been scheduled, must be reviewed by the Board of Supervisors Rules Committee before going to the full board.

E-mail Ryan Kim at rkim@sfchronicle.com.

From SFGate.com (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2005/06/30/BUGU2DGR1K1.DTL&type=business)

S.F. considers cable TV deal

Supervisors may settle lawsuit, extend franchise

As part of the deal, the city will receive a one-time settlement fee of $3.5 million along with about $4.4 million in public access, education and government funding over four years. This would be in addition to the $517,000 in franchise fees the city receives annually from Comcast.



Now where do you suppose that Comcast is going to get that $3.5 million to pay to SF? From us, its subscribers. Don't expect the stock holders to foot that bill.

Well I think cable rates are regulated or at least controlled by franchise agreements, so they won't be able to suck all that money out of us right away, but yeah, it's almost as if, we the customer, are of a secondary concern or annoyance to cable companies and the cities that negotiate these franchise agreements.

Is/Was anyone having problems recieving 702 (KTVU-HD) and 705 (KPIX-HD) in the Pittsburg/Baypoint area around 5:30 PM? It always seems to be these two channels that go down when I'm having reception problems.

I've already had the cables replaced, so it shouldn't be that. Is it possible that the external box which leads to our underground utilities is having problems with the heat?

Fitprod

Is/Was anyone having problems recieving 702 (KTVU-HD) and 705 (KPIX-HD) in the Pittsburg/Baypoint area around 5:30 PM? It always seems to be these two channels that go down when I'm having reception problems.

702/705 share the same RF frequency so whatever happens to one, usually
happens to the other, unless the problem is with the source (prior to Comcast)

After the way that TNT-HD has turned out to be nothing more than a "pipe dream" for the Bay Area,
I'm really not going to assume we'll see anything that's nationally announced by Comcast again :(

I don't know why there are so many people wanting TNT-HD. Many of us don't watch it because of the numerous commercials that break up the edited movies. I haven't watched TNT in any form in many years - ever since there was a choice of non-commercial channels to pick from. There are many more worthwhile channels to add - like the HDNET channels. They don't even carry all the local HD channels - altho now Star Trek is gone, doesn't really make that much difference.
They only have one HD PPV channel. Our BEV (Canadian) satellite has 3 plus ALL the networks. Hopefully their HD PVR will be out by the end of July.

...mike

People wanted TNT for the NBA playoffs, and possibly "Into the West"

NASCAR and "The Closer".

Fremont local question: Sometime Sunday afternoon, some channels went to "available shortly" status. These include HBO2W, HBOSW (553, 554), SHOTW (578), as well as a couple of others. Inband status appears to show nothing -- no errors, no status, etc.

Reset (unplug, wait, plug-in) box had no effect. There are no other simultaneous oddities -- HD stuff is fine, HSI is fine, etc. So it doesn't appear to be an issue of newly introduced noise.

Based on status, it appears that nothing is being sent. Anyone else seeing this?

Fremont local question: Sometime Sunday afternoon, some channels went to "available shortly" status. These include HBO2W, HBOSW (553, 554), SHOTW (578), as well as a couple of others. Inband status appears to show nothing -- no errors, no status, etc.

Reset (unplug, wait, plug-in) box had no effect. There are no other simultaneous oddities -- HD stuff is fine, HSI is fine, etc. So it doesn't appear to be an issue of newly introduced noise.

Based on status, it appears that nothing is being sent. Anyone else seeing this?

Those channels are part of the current 256 QAM transition. They should be coming back on soon, if not already.

Fremont local question: Sometime Sunday afternoon, some channels went to "available shortly" status. These include HBO2W, HBOSW (553, 554), SHOTW (578), as well as a couple of others. Inband status appears to show nothing -- no errors, no status, etc.

Reset (unplug, wait, plug-in) box had no effect. There are no other simultaneous oddities -- HD stuff is fine, HSI is fine, etc. So it doesn't appear to be an issue of newly introduced noise.

Based on status, it appears that nothing is being sent. Anyone else seeing this?

Nereus, I'm in Fremont too and they are working. Are you still having a problem? If so it must be on your local node and not the Fremont headend.

Kevin

I thought he was referring to another post. Yeah, Toy story was in HD here in Comcast SF, and the PQ was very nice too. I only watched part of it so I didn't see any errors or problems.
I thought it was good, but a little bit soft, and would have looked better in 1080i :cool: People may like 720p for sports (though I have no idea why) but this is really one case where the source material could have easily benefitted from the doubled resolution of 1080i..

People wanted TNT for the NBA playoffs, and possibly "Into the West"
"Because it's there." Seriously, if it's broadcast in HD, we should have it, period.

TNT was showing "Saving Private Ryan" the other night, which even though edited for "content" and commericals, would have been nice to see in Hi Def...

Is the Giants game on FSN HD in the San Francisco area right now? We're not getting it again in the Solano/Sacramento areas.

Is the Giants game on FSN HD in the San Francisco area right now? We're not getting it again in the Solano/Sacramento areas.Yes, I have it on InHD2 (FSN) but it's not in HD!

Yes, I have it on InHD2 (FSN) but it's not in HD!
Channel 720? And it's still not in HD?

Channel 720? And it's still not in HD?Yep, pillarboxed 4:3, looks like 480i at best. I thought maybe it would just start out this way and be switched over to HD, but not yet. Never seen this before, but it's a holiday and maybe someone is asleep at the switch or busy having a beer and hot dog.

Hmmm ... weird. We're still getting regular INHD2 programming on channel 720 here (a PINK concert).

Yep, pillarboxed 4:3, looks like 480i at best. I thought maybe it would just start out this way and be switched over to HD, but not yet. Never seen this before, but it's a holiday and maybe someone is asleep at the switch or busy having a beer and hot dog.
It's in HD somewhere, or at least being captured in HD, ESPN just went to the game for a minute or two towards the end of the Yankess/Orioles game and it looked spectacular.

I thought it was good, but a little bit soft, and would have looked better in 1080i :cool: People may like 720p for sports (though I have no idea why) but this is really one case where the source material could have easily benefitted from the doubled resolution of 1080i..
Well, a quick and dirty comparison of the NASCAR race Saturday on our multicasting friends, KNTV, and previous races on KTVU, makes a good argument for 720p for fast motion sports. The KNTV version had lots of artifacting, in fact, the confetti thrown in the winner's circle at the end of the race just swamped the picture with pixelation and artifacting. Don't recall ever seeing that with KTVU-FOX-720p, and FOX is running maybe only about 15mbs bandwidth. I believe KNTV is around 14 or so.

It's my armchair scientific position, that if you are going to multicast, use a 720p format as KGO never seems to have these problems. KPIX is 1080i, but doesn't multicast and I've rarely, if ever, seen motion issues with their broadcasts. KNTV, IMO, is by far the worst at sports broadcasts here in the bay area and I believe the poor PQ can be at least partially attributed to the fact that they multicast combined with the 1080i format. Some of the issues in Saturday's race were reminiscent of the Athens Olympic coverage.

It's in HD somewhere, or at least being captured in HD, ESPN just went to the game for a minute or two towards the end of the Yankess/Orioles game and it looked spectacular.
What does the game look like on channel 720 at your place, keenan?

What does the game look like on channel 720 at your place, keenan?
I don't get INHD here, I'm watching it on DirecTV, channel 738. The analog FSN feed here is complete garbage, the DirecTV feed is much better but a longs ways from HD.

Did a bit of research, the Giants/Reds game is on ESPN2-HD, that may be why it's been SD'ed for everyone else. I can't swear that it's in HD on ESPN2-HD, but I'll bet that it is since they showed the game earlier in HD during the Yankees game.

So, all 10 people across the country that actually get ESPN2-HD can see the Giants in HD, while the rest of us suffer with SD... :rolleyes: :D

Really weird, but thanks for the info keenan.

I thought it was good, but a little bit soft, and would have looked better in 1080i :cool: People may like 720p for sports (though I have no idea why) but this is really one case where the source material could have easily benefitted from the doubled resolution of 1080i..

I thought that 720p is higher resolution than 1080i (assuming that the i and the p are the equivalent to interlacing and progressive).

Was I wrong?

I thought that 720p is higher resolution than 1080i (assuming that the i and the p are the equivalent to interlacing and progressive).

Was I wrong?Yes, you're sort of wrong. :D The data rate for 1080i is a tad higher than that of 720p. But as a practical matter I really doubt that anyone can actually see a real difference between the two (on less than a 100" screen, anyway) that doesn't have to do with the 30-Hz flicker of interlacing.

Yes, you're sort of wrong. :D The data rate for 1080i is a tad higher than that of 720p. But as a practical matter I really doubt that anyone can actually see a real difference between the two (on less than a 100" screen, anyway) that doesn't have to do with the 30-Hz flicker of interlacing.

The real killer of 1080i is the horizontal res, it is 1920 whereas 720p is 1280. This is what makes 1080i a tad higher.

720p when broadcasting movies is very economical, they only send 24fps. When they are showing live events they switch to 60fps, it makes the bandwidth requirement similar to 1080i but still not as high because of the reduced horizontal bandwidth.

Of course if you have Direct they downres 1080i to 1280x1080 but we are not going to start that argument in this forum. Comcast luckily leave all HD in its full glorious res!

Kevin

Comcast luckily leave all HD in its full glorious res!

Kevin
For now at least, but after talking to the KGO engineer awhile back he indicated that Comcast was experimenting with rate-shaping equipment at Sutro.

Plus, if you're using one of the Motorola STBs, the output of those boxes is only around 1350 lines of resolution anyway.

Yes, you're sort of wrong. :D The data rate for 1080i is a tad higher than that of 720p. But as a practical matter I really doubt that anyone can actually see a real difference between the two (on less than a 100" screen, anyway) that doesn't have to do with the 30-Hz flicker of interlacing.
You are talking about detail and not motion artifacting I presume..?

When you add to the mix the reduced bandwidth from multicasting and if the program being compared involves fast motion, I can certainly see a difference.

You are talking about detail and not motion artifacting I presume..?

When you add to the mix the reduced bandwidth from multicasting and if the program being compared involves fast motion, I can certainly see a difference.I'm talking about the native capabilities of the two formats, not the ways in which they are screwed up.

Technically, I suppose one could argue for a dead heat, since both formats are limited by ATSC 19 Mbps bandwidth so that the upper limit on data rate is really the same. However, it's been my experience that (after null-packet stripping) 720p broadcasts generally have a bit lower data rate than 1080i ones. Typically on the order of 4.5 GB/show v. 5.5 GB/show for "one hour" network broadcasts minus commercials.

720p is 1280x720 = .9 million pixels

1080i is 1920x1080 = over 2 million pixels.

Big difference! ;)

Yeah if you choke the bandwidth you're gonna get more macroblocking with the higher res format... so don't choke the bandwidth!

720p is 1280x720 = .9 million pixels

1080i is 1920x1080 = over 2 million pixels.

Big difference! ;)

Yeah if you choke the bandwidth you're gonna get more macroblocking with the higher res format... so don't choke the bandwidth!BZZZT! Wrong...thank you for playing. The data rate includes the fact that 1080i is 30 fps while 720p is 60 fps, so the ratio is far less than 2:1. Your statement would be correct if you were talking about 1080p, but there are no 1080p broadcasts (and, without much better bandwidth management strategies than we're seeing in OTA broadcasts today, using 1080p format would result in major macroblocking on a 19 Mbps ATSC channel).

720p is 1280x720 = .9 million pixels

1080i is 1920x1080 = over 2 million pixels.

Big difference! ;)

Yeah if you choke the bandwidth you're gonna get more macroblocking with the higher res format... so don't choke the bandwidth!
While 1080i has more pixels there are caveats that come with it. Since the only source that can come close to, or actually does in some cases, send that resolution is OTA, in most cases less, it can be argued that while 1080i has better spatial resolution the lack of full resolution actually being sent, or even resolved at the display, makes the tradeoff of 720p having better temporal resolution a more logical choice when looking for detail and lack of motion artifacting. For fast motion, close captured sports, such as basketball, boxing, most Olympic events, 720p makes more sense because of it's lack of motion artifacting. Football, being that most shots are from a distance can and do look excellent in 1080i, primarily because of increased detail, but also because with long shots the motion issue is much lower than it is with something like basketball.

Not to mention there are only a few displays even capable of displaying, or even coming close, to actual 1920x1080i resolution.

I should add, that to the best of my knowledge, these STBs from Comcast output about a maximum of 1350 lines of resolution anyway, so full 1920x1080 is not available to be utilized, even if you had a display that could resolve it. Hooking the cable feed directly to the display should give you the best chance at receiving whatever the original broadcast was sent at, if it's at a higher resolution than 1350.

Anyway, when the heck is Comcast-bay area going to get TNT-HD.. :p :D

But as a practical matter I really doubt that anyone can actually see a real difference between the two (on less than a 100" screen, anyway) that doesn't have to do with the 30-Hz flicker of interlacing.
On my 1920x1080 Sharp 45" using internal QAM tuner, there is a clear difference between 720p and 1080i from Comcast. On mostly static frames, 1080i is sharper and more detailed. On motion frames, 720p has more solid edges. On this particular display there is no flicker as 1080i is deinterlaced before display. It is possible with excellent scaler, 720p and 1080i would look nearly identical, but I'm just reporting on the stock equipment.

sfhub--

Thanks for confirming that on a genuine 1080p display it's a tossup. :D

While 1080i has more pixels there are caveats that come with it. Since the only source that can come close to, or actually does in some cases, send that resolution is OTA, in most cases less, it can be argued that while 1080i has better spatial resolution the lack of full resolution actually being sent, or even resolved at the display, makes the tradeoff of 720p having better temporal resolution a more logical choice when looking for detail and lack of motion artifacting. For fast motion, close captured sports, such as basketball, boxing, most Olympic events, 720p makes more sense because of it's lack of motion artifacting. Football, being that most shots are from a distance can and do look excellent in 1080i, primarily because of increased detail, but also because with long shots the motion issue is much lower than it is with something like basketball.

Not to mention there are only a few displays even capable of displaying, or even coming close, to actual 1920x1080i resolution.

I should add, that to the best of my knowledge, these STBs from Comcast output about a maximum of 1350 lines of resolution anyway, so full 1920x1080 is not available to be utilized, even if you had a display that could resolve it. Hooking the cable feed directly to the display should give you the best chance at receiving whatever the original broadcast was sent at, if it's at a higher resolution than 1350.

Anyway, when the heck is Comcast-bay area going to get TNT-HD.. :p :D


Best example of that is tonight's Battlestar Galactica on NBC-HD. 1080i is not the format for that show at all. Everytime they had a big fast paced space battle, artifacting was a mess. Crashes become pixelated for a split second...terrible really. Every network should go to 720p, for action shows at least.

EDIT: Here are links to some really nice 720p trailers. I love playing these on my laptop. Watch the Serenity trailer for a good example of why 720p is GREAT for fast motion scenes. :)

http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/3/d/43dc9661-f69b-4735-9797-b3c98199085e/Alexander_Trailer_720p.exe
http://www.serenitymovie.com/media/serenityT1_720p_8mbit_LTR_NR.zip
http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/3/d/43dc9661-f69b-4735-9797-b3c98199085e/FridayNightLights_720p.exe
http://download.microsoft.com/download/4/3/d/43dc9661-f69b-4735-9797-b3c98199085e/Ray_720p.exe
http://www.thebournesupremacy.com/trailer/BourneSupremacyT3_720p_8mbit_SRD_NR_bt-1.zip
http://www.theskeletonkeymovie.com/media/SkeletonKeyT1_720p_8mbit_LTRT_NR.zip
http://www.kickingandscreamingmovie.com/media/KickingAndScreamingT1_720p_8mbit_LTRT_NR.zip
http://www.theinterpretermovie.com/media/InterpreterT1_720p_8mbit_LTRT_NR.zip

Best example of that is tonight's Battlestar Galactica on NBC-HD. 1080i is not the format for that show at all. Everytime they had a big fast paced space battle, artifacting was a mess. Crashes become pixelated for a split second...terrible really. Every network should go to 720p, for action shows at least.

Yes, the scene where Baltar was hesitating getting out of the ship with all the fire around him was a particularly bad pixelated mess. Even some close captured stuff like the scene with the President, her assistant and the Oracle character, when the camera moved from one face to the other, there was tiling. You don't see any of this crap on the DVD set.

The transitions from commercials back to the show were horrendous, with popping audio and scattered lines all over the screen.

Simply put, KNTV sucks, I would love to have seen what CBS could have done with this, even though they are 1080i as well, KPIX does not multicast and I have a strong suspicion it would not have looked like KNTV's broadcast.

It's a shame one of our 4 major networks apparently does not care about the quality of their signal.

Yes, the scene where Baltar was hesitating getting out of the ship with all the fire around him was a particularly bad pixelated mess. Even some close captured stuff like the scene with the President, her assistant and the Oracle character, when the camera moved from one face to the other, there was tiling. You don't see any of this crap on the DVD set.

The transitions from commercials back to the show were horrendous, with popping audio and scattered lines all over the screen.

Simply put, KNTV sucks, I would love to have seen what CBS could have done with this, even though they are 1080i as well, KPIX does not multicast and I have a strong suspicion it would not have looked like KNTV's broadcast.

It's a shame one of our 4 major networks apparently does not care about the quality of their signal.
Yep. I hated it. It was the first time I saw BSG in HD and I was annoyed everytime I saw massive tiling. The audio pops...oh man, that really ticked me off since I wanted to hear it on my system and nothing worse then hearing every speaker pop, considering that commercials were more frequent than usual on that show. I wish sci-fi went HD. I'm sure they would care very much about the signal...especially since us Sci-Fi geeks will raise hell the second we cant see a space battle in its pristine glory. :p

Yep, definitely sucks. I mean, even LENO looks bad. The background on stage has so much detail going on that one camera pan and its a mess.

One question...Its obvious KNTV looks horrible, but have people complained enough to them? This is just shameful PQ.

One question...Its obvious KNTV looks horrible, but have people complained enough to them? This is just shameful PQ.
Yes, and we were told it was fine.. :rolleyes: It was in response to some Olympic complaints in the Yahoo SF forum. I'm going to search back and find the quote, but essentially, KNTV doesn't really care too much about their HD signal at this point because it's not making them any money.

BTW, that Serenity clip is fantastic, and I'm only using a 1.5G machine.. :p

I think I would have a heart attack if KNTV even came close to that quality...

Yes, and we were told it was fine.. :rolleyes: It was in response to some Olympic complaints in the Yahoo SF forum. I'm going to search back and find the quote, but essentially, KNTV doesn't really care too much about their HD signal at this point because it's not making them any money.

BTW, that Serenity clip is fantastic, and I'm only using a 1.5G machine.. :p

I think I would have a heart attack if KNTV even came close to that quality...
Jerks...oh well. I dont watch much NBC cept Leno if somebody really pretty is on the show. :)

Yeah, that Serenity trailer rocks. When the rockets go off or when there is a fly-by zoom, it holds up perfectly.

Anybody getting any audio-drops tonight on the ESPN HD Sunday night game (Giants & Cards)?

I haven't noticed any...

Yep, I've had some. Also seen some fly ball drops as well, but can't blame Comcast for those.

I've noticed audio-drops on ESPN HD for a couple of days now, but I didn't think much about them until tonight. Hope they get it fixed before the All Star HR Derby tomorrow night.

BZZZT! Wrong...thank you for playing. The data rate includes the fact that 1080i is 30 fps while 720p is 60 fps, so the ratio is far less than 2:1. Your statement would be correct if you were talking about 1080p, but there are no 1080p broadcasts (and, without much better bandwidth management strategies than we're seeing in OTA broadcasts today, using 1080p format would result in major macroblocking on a 19 Mbps ATSC channel).
Wrong? I'm not wrong. Those are the specs of those 2 formats, you can go look it up. Actually if you want to split hairs it's you who is wrong - 1080i is 60hz (60 fields per second).

720p only looks better if the same thing on 1080i gets compressed all to ****. Well.. duh. Believe me 1080i looks a HELL of a lot sharper. Of course you need a display that can actually show 1080i and not downconvert it to 720p like most of the digital displays do. Have you ever actually seen a real 1080i signal in full resolution? Sure 720p looks nice, but 1080i has much, much more detail. Of course it also has higher bandwidth requirements and if broadcasters are intent on multicasting 72 channels of weather satellite images instead.... but that's their problem. Take a look at any of the movies/etc shown on INHD if you get those channels (and if you have a real 1080 display) they don't over-compress and it looks fantastic, even the sports games.

Yep, I've had some. Also seen some fly ball drops as well, but can't blame Comcast for those.
:mad:
FWIW I didn't see ... er.. hear.. any audio dropouts. Might be a local issue.

Wrong? I'm not wrong. Those are the specs of those 2 formats, you can go look it up. Actually if you want to split hairs it's you who is wrong - 1080i is 60hz (60 fields per second).

I think there is some confusion in these replies. In on instance there is a reply to a set of posts discussing "bandwidth" saying 1080i is twice bandwidth of 720p, which clearly it is not. In the next reply the conversation has changed to pixels in a 1080p (deinterlaced 1080i) frame. These are apples and oranges.

I have a 1920x1080 display so I know what these things look like. 1080i is clearly sharper than 720p, but for fast motion scenes, the edges on 720p objects are sharper.

walk--

Since when can "fps" not mean "frames per second"? ;) Those 60 fields in a 1080i picture each have only 540 lines, which is why the ratio of data rates for 720p and 1080i transmissions, all else being equal, is about 1920x540/(1280x720) = 1.125 rather than the over 2 you quoted. Yes, static frames of 1080i can have much higher detail than frames of 720p, but the motion artifacts introduced by present compression strategies end up dominating subjective judgements of image quality in normal ATSC TV viewing.

Yes, static frames of 1080i can have much higher detail than frames of 720p, but the motion artifacts introduced by present compression strategies end up dominating subjective judgements of image quality in normal ATSC TV viewing.
There are many people on either side of the 720p vs 1080i debate. For my viewing content, even with sports, I think over 80% of any particular show I watch has slight motion, which looks great with 1080i. The fast motion only happens in bursts, so what dominates my memory of the picture is the overall sharper picture of the bulk of the frames vs the slightly more stable fast motion frames. Everyone will have their own opinion on this and it depends on your display and other factors.

Yes but the fields are combined at viewing time (either by a de-interlacer if you're one of the lucky.. er... rich :) people to have a 1080p panel display, or by persistence of vision) so the effective resolution is 1920x1080. The horizontal resolution is higher regardless (1920 vs 1280) and even though my CRT probably only resolves about 1600 of those I can still tell a difference. It's not hard to see, watching the Giants games on FSN/InHD (1080i) vs ESPN (720p, well mastered, looks decent but a little softer) or FOX (720p, not well mastered, quite blurry actually). I mean they use the same cameras..

Yes but the fields are combined at viewing time (either by a de-interlacer if you're one of the lucky.. er... rich :) people to have a 1080p panel display, or by persistence of vision) so the effective resolution is 1920x1080.
The real issue it seems you wanted to point out is whether 1920x1080i (either through deinterlacing of phosphor persistence) is more appealing than 1280x720p. This is a classic 1080i vs 720p discussion and there are plenty of people in both camps.

The original claim that 1080i takes twice the transmission bandwidth of 720p is clearly not correct and that is what drew the strong responses.

Yes but the fields are combined at viewing time (either by a de-interlacer if you're one of the lucky.. er... rich :) people to have a 1080p panel display, or by persistence of vision) so the effective resolution is 1920x1080. The horizontal resolution is higher regardless (1920 vs 1280) and even though my CRT probably only resolves about 1600 of those I can still tell a difference. It's not hard to see, watching the Giants games on FSN/InHD (1080i) vs ESPN (720p, well mastered, looks decent but a little softer) or FOX (720p, not well mastered, quite blurry actually). I mean they use the same cameras..

I agree that baseball games are a great example of 1080i looking much better than 720p. It was obvious on my sony wega HD-36" direct view set and on now on my 42" panny plasma display. The actual resolution on my panny is 1024x768 so you would think the 720p would like just as good but it's not even a contest. When a game is on ESPN and INHD at the same time, it looks much better on the INHD channel. When the games are on FOX they look terrible, even when they claim to be in "hd". On fox, unlike the other channels, I get to use my TV's internal tuner to watch them in true 720p. Still no dice. My best bet is that the frame sizes are not exactly what they claim to be.

When the games are on FOX they look terrible, even when they claim to be in "hd". On fox, unlike the other channels, I get to use my TV's internal tuner to watch them in true 720p. Still no dice.
When you say FOX, I assume you're talking about KTVU, as FOX network hasn't done any HD baseball games yet this year, AFAIK, the All Star game will be the first.

are all the digital channels encrypted now on comcast in the bay area...i was hoping to use my qam turner on my sony grand wega so i don't have to get another digital cable box from comcast.

are all the digital channels encrypted now on comcast in the bay area...i was hoping to use my qam turner on my sony grand wega so i don't have to get another digital cable box from comcast.
No, the local HD channels are not encrypted or their digital sub-channels. In some areas Discovery-HD and ESPN-HD are not encrypted either.

I'm noticing that Phase 3 of the 64/264 QAM transition hasn't happened yet in Rohnert Park. They've got a couple of days to meet their deadline. I wonder if there is a problem.

Real bad breakup Monday night, around 9:30 PM, on all channels in Cupertino.

Audio stuttering, constant blocking. Unwatchable.

Not sure if it was a problem all night or just around the time I tuned in.

I've been getting a lot of channel available shortly messages, and some of my recordings have been an unwatchable pixelated mess, the last 2 recordings of Six Feet Under were trashed. I haven't been too worried about it as there really hasn't been much to watch and I figured they were messing around with the system. It would seem as if it's a signal strength problem as I'm getting massive error counts.

Anyone else in Santa Rosa having these problems..? Comcast is usually at such a loss when trying to fix these sort of problems I was hoping it would just go away..but my annoyance level is about to trip a breaker...

Well I hope Comcast resolves the problem quicker for you guys than they did for me. For once my area has good HD channels. With my problem it wasn't until the HSI users started complaing that they bumped the priority. Had 3 weeks of the pixelating audio dropping mess on all QAM256 channels except ABC/707. I naively thought if I just let it sit, it would fix itself, resulting in an extra week of pixelation. I suggest you call it in and complain, since there are so few HD users (relatively) that they probably have no idea it's affecting multiple people. They'll spend a week just to determine it isn't a problem local to your home (which is always there initial assumption) and that just adds delays to getting the real problem fixed.

I'm noticing that Phase 3 of the 64/264 QAM transition hasn't happened yet in Rohnert Park. They've got a couple of days to meet their deadline. I wonder if there is a problem.
There was a message on my 6412 box this morning that Comcast was going to be working on the system on 7/14/2005. So if you experience any problems this is the reason. I assume this is phase 3.

I suggest you call it in and complain, since there are so few HD users (relatively) that they probably have no idea it's affecting multiple people. They'll spend a week just to determine it isn't a problem local to your home (which is always there initial assumption) and that just adds delays to getting the real problem fixed.
I called this morning about the audio-drops & pixel-flickering on ESPN-HD 723. It's been happening for about a week here. Her 1st response was to refresh my box. Then she said that if that doesn't work (and it didn't), then they may need to send a technician over. So it doesn't seem like my individual phone call is prompting Comcast to look into anything on their end. Just out of curiosity, is there a charge when a technician comes to your house for a problem like this?

Well I hope Comcast resolves the problem quicker for you guys than they did for me.
So what I described rings a bell..? I really hate calling these people, given a choice, I think I would rather chew on glass shards..

I called this morning about the audio-drops & pixel-flickering on ESPN-HD 723. It's been happening for about a week here. Her 1st response was to refresh my box. Then she said that if that doesn't work (and it didn't), then they may need to send a technician over. So it doesn't seem like my individual phone call is prompting Comcast to look into anything on their end. Just out of curiosity, is there a charge when a technician comes to your house for a problem like this?
I was told once before that they will not really do anything until there are 3 calls received regarding the same issue...no, there is no charge for them to come out when there is a problem..

There was a message on my 6412 box this morning that Comcast was going to be working on the system on 7/14/2005. So if you experience any problems this is the reason. I assume this is phase 3.


I that same messag on my box 3 weeks ago. Phase 2 was already complete, so I am assuming that the latest would be Phase 3. I have that same message again this AM except that it is 7-14, so I guess they got slowed down and will begin Phase 3 now.

Real bad breakup Monday night, around 9:30 PM, on all channels in Cupertino.
In Cupertino, I've been getting intermittent bad pixilating and sound breakups on all digital channels for several days with 6412. Unwatchable Monday evening. Worse on the hi def channels, but occasionally on SD channels. Analog channels and Cable-modem OK.

I'm wondering how many others in the area are seeing this? Comcast CSR says no one else has reported it.

In Cupertino, I've been getting intermittent bad pixilating and sound breakups on all digital channels for several days with 6412. Unwatchable Monday evening. Worse on the hi def channels, but occasionally on SD channels. Analog channels and Cable-modem OK.

I'm wondering how many others in the area are seeing this? Comcast CSR says no one else has reported it.

Well I reported it last night.

I've been having problems with the cable modem since Saturday. They told me then it was a network problem. Then on Monday afternoon, they told me it wasn't so I should have someone come out. So I scheduled for Wednesday.

Then on Monday night, I saw problems with my HDTV channels (but okay for 002 and other analog channels on the HDTV box). So this time the CSR thinks the problems may be related. The guy on Wednesday is suppose to check on both.

My received signal on my cable modem is declining so it seems to be a signal strength problem.

But this morning at least, 723 was okay. But my cable modem crapped out and then later got better but still weaker receive signal than right after I first boot the cable modem.

I called this morning about the audio-drops & pixel-flickering on ESPN-HD 723. It's been happening for about a week here. Her 1st response was to refresh my box. Then she said that if that doesn't work (and it didn't), then they may need to send a technician over. So it doesn't seem like my individual phone call is prompting Comcast to look into anything on their end. Just out of curiosity, is there a charge when a technician comes to your house for a problem like this?
I'm quite familiar with the sequence. For my problem (which could be quite different than yours), I waited a week before calling in because I figured it would fix itself. After a week of no change, I gave up and called in. They scheduled a technician to come out pretty quickly, but with the damn 4hr time window which chews up most of your day. They spent 30-60 minutes doing various tests to determine it isn't inside problem, before finally being convinced it isn't your problem. Then I asked them to check the signal at the curb and they were also seeing unrecoverable errors there, so they knew the problem wasn't my end.

Now this is as far as the Comcast van guys are allowed empowered to investigate. They need to forward the problem to Comcast network guys (who drive the bucket trucks). They took a few days to come out with their special QAM256 test equipment, just to determine the same thing the first guy did.

After that, they say they need to forward to head-end people. Then the groups go back and forth for another few days saying the problem is on the other side. I'm pretty sure HD is on a pretty low priority because they go through this for almost a week. Magically when people in my area start to complain about HSI (which was also affected by the QAM256 problem) and the field techs determine it is the same problem as HD, then the problem gets fixed the next day. It could all be coincidence.

The same problem started 2 weeks later after the phase3 conversion. I called it in and told them it was the exact same problem (bursts of unrecoverable errors every 3-4 seconds), but they insisted on going through the same debugging techniques, resetting the box, sending a field tech out, etc. Aargh, I was willing to go through the motions first time around, but I really wanted to short circuit the process this time. If it turned out to be a different problem, they could always go back to sending a tech out. I tried various techniques to expedite like asking them to reopen previous case, calling back and speaking to different CSR, asking to speak with manager, etc. All to no avail, I had a new scheduled 4hr window to wait for the field tech to come and tell me the problem wasn't in my house and they weren't empowered to investigate further and only the network guys had QAM256 test equipment so they would forward to them.

Well, luckily I had the contact # for the first field tech that came out, so I just called him and told him the work order # and that the same problem was happening. This time it only took 2 days to fix (but I'm sure if I let the process go on as normal, it would have been at least a week)

In case you were wondering, the problem ended up being someone had left some sweep test signal generator running after a phaseN (QAM64->QAM256) conversion on the RF frequencies instead of offset, so the test signal was causing bursts of errors every 3-4 seconds.

So what I described rings a bell..? I really hate calling these people, given a choice, I think I would rather chew on glass shards..
The symptoms sound very similar, but as to cause, I cannot say. It could be the same or something totally different.

Just as a matter of navigating bureaucracy, I didn't have any idea how few HD users there really are until I had my HD problem. If it is mainly an HD problem every complaint helps to bump up the priority and sitting around expecting the problem to fix itself is probably not the best strategy, because chances are with so few users to start with, the complaints levels are pretty low, and Comcast won't even be aware there is an area wide problem.

Now if the problem was HSI or analog, then you could just wait and do nothing, as the complaint levels will be very high and Comcast will move their butts.

BTW they also insisted to me that it is normal to have "recoverable" errors, especially with QAM256. While that may be true when testing using real equipment, it is *not* true using my DCT-5100 status screen. I've had HD since the beginning, over a year now, and when things are working correct, there should be *no* errors, recoverable or unrecoverable.

On my DCT-5100, to see the error levels, use this sequence (probably the same for other Comcast boxes too)
1) tune to channel with problem
2) power off
3) immediately after power off, press "OK", if you wait too long it won't go into service menu
4) navigate to item "D04 Inband Status", Press "OK"

You should see the error #s at the bottom.

BTW they also insisted to me that it is normal to have "recoverable" errors, especially with QAM256. While that may be true when testing using real equipment, it is *not* true using my DCT-5100 status screen. I've had HD since the beginning, over a year now, and when things are working correct, there should be *no* errors, recoverable or unrecoverable.

On my DCT-5100, to see the error levels, use this sequence (probably the same for other Comcast boxes too)
1) tune to channel with problem
2) power off
3) immediately after power off, press "OK", if you wait too long it won't go into service menu
4) navigate to item "D04 Inband Status", Press "OK"

You should see the error #s at the bottom.
Yes, that's where I have been checking them, and I agree, I can remember when I never saw any error counts, correctable or otherwise and I can't help but think it might have something to do with the HSI rollout here a couple of months ago. My SNR and AGC numbers are a lot softer as well...

I'm going to have to call them... :(

Yes, that's where I have been checking them, and I agree, I can remember when I never saw any error counts, correctable or otherwise and I can't help but think it might have something to do with the HSI rollout here a couple of months ago. My SNR and AGC numbers are a lot softer as well...

I'm going to have to call them... :(

Correctable errors should not be seen in the normal case. Sure, FEC can fix problems, but you never design a system that depends on FEC working in the steady state case. CATV networks are a little finicky due to issues with RF components like line extenders, taps, etc...

So it pays to have margin in the system. That's where FEC comes in. When your management systems start noticing increasing recoverable error counts, this should be a trigger for plant maintenance, not deferral until you start seeing uncorrectable errors. If that was the case, why bother with the FEC in the first place!

Comcast's standards for plant design do not depend on FEC saving your bacon in steady state operation. If you are seeing correctable errors, there is a problem. Now, they may already know about the problem, and are working on fixing it, but this isn't saying that "correctable errors are normal".

The cable modems generate all kinds of great stats regarding plant operation, since data is flowing constantly and in both directions. Repairable errors can be tracked to specific CPE and therefore specific locations in the plant. Correlate these errors and it can point to a failing amp or poor balancing of the network during a rebuild or maintenance operation. There is a treasure trove of data here. I know some of the old @Home tools were able to flag RF problems by using correctable errors, and better tools are available today.

I'm not sure if customer care is out of sync with engineering on this, or that the local folks aren't on top of the plant as they are supposed to be, but I assure you, if you are seeing correctable errors on your DCT, something is out of step with the designed operation of the plant, and needs to be attended to before it degrades to the point of generating an outage. The folks in comcast senior engineering would agree with me on this.

Thanks,
Mike

I that same messag on my box 3 weeks ago. Phase 2 was already complete, so I am assuming that the latest would be Phase 3. I have that same message again this AM except that it is 7-14, so I guess they got slowed down and will begin Phase 3 now.

Phase 3 starts at midnight tonight.

HDNet apparently had on some very good HD coverage of the Space Shuttle (aborted) launch today...
anyone know if KRON-DT carried it, or are they still only years-old tape loop?
Did anyone else have good coverage? (DiscoveryHD?)

Any idea about SF comcast getting HDNet for real, especially once all this QAM256 change frees up more bandwidth ?
More useful contant than TNT-HD, once sports/specials are over :)

HDNet apparently had on some very good HD coverage of the Space Shuttle (aborted) launch today...
anyone know if KRON-DT carried it, or are they still only years-old tape loop?
Did anyone else have good coverage? (DiscoveryHD?)

Any idea about SF comcast getting HDNet for real, especially once all this QAM256 change frees up more bandwidth ?
More useful contant than TNT-HD, once sports/specials are over :)

KRON is still only showing old tapes of ancient HDNET stuff...Nothing like watching the 2004 football game between SouthCentral Whocares State and Northwestern Poodunk University.

The HDNet Showing of the Launch is an exclusive...You will not see it in HD on any other channel (unfortunately). I read somewhere that NASA made a deal with Mark Cuban so they could use the cameras so they would have better pictures (for flight analysis) and he gets exclusive rights to show the feed on his channel.

...and I havent read of any movement towards getting an agreement between Comcast and HDNet for carrying those channels..I dont think its high on Comcasts list

HDNet apparently had on some very good HD coverage of the Space Shuttle (aborted) launch today...
anyone know if KRON-DT carried it, or are they still only years-old tape loop?
Did anyone else have good coverage? (DiscoveryHD?)

Any idea about SF comcast getting HDNet for real, especially once all this QAM256 change frees up more bandwidth ?
More useful contant than TNT-HD, once sports/specials are over :)
The coverage was great, except no launch. KRON-DT is still old stuff. The type of coverage HDNet had/has is exclusive to HDNet.

SD coverage was simulcasted on the NASA channel, but I don't know here that is available other than DirecTV either.

Some good news, of sorts, for Comcast customers regarding the shuttle launch, copied and pasted from the Launch Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5880535#post5880535)


Originally Posted by keenan
Question, it indicates in the PR that the HD telecast is exclusive to HDNet...now does this mean unequivocally, that any HD images of both the live and replays of the launch can only be seen on HDNet..?

And if so, does that exclusivity extend to when ever the launch does actually happen? In other words, if the sky falls and ABC or someone else suddenly decides they want to to the launch in HD, can they...?

keenan,

In response to your first question; If a broadcaster records the launch using their own equipment, the material they output is owned by that network. Conversely, any footage, still images, and/or audio recorded and delivered by NASA is considered public domain -- even that which is provided via simulcast during a live broadcast event.

In response to question number two; Any network can opt to set up, shoot and broadcast the launch in HD.

Concerning a common question as to whether another HD broadcaster will deliver the launch to viewers, the answer is yes.

In the interest of providing the most editorially sound presentation to our viewers -- utilizing all available and official NASA sources -- Discovery HD Theater has opted to work directly with NASA's materials after the fact (whenever the launch takes place).

Within days after the launch, Discovery HD Theater will receive all available high definition footage and 5.1 audio direct from NASA to produce as comprehensive a recreation of the launch as possible in real time for our viewers. We feel that this official multi-angle and multi-location approach will offer our viewers a compelling first-hand prespective of the launch.

Discovery HD Theater is looking forward to providing this service to our viewers and we applaud HDNet for their efforts to deliver to the Return to Flight live to high deifnition audiences.

Regards,
John
Discovery HD Theater Programming

Some good news, of sorts, for Comcast customers regarding the shuttle launch, copied and pasted from the Launch Thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5880535#post5880535)

... ( eg basically DiscoveryHD will have re-edited HD of launch few days later, from NASA HD )



Very cool, thanks for quick & authoritative answers as always guys!

I am moving back to Fremont after spending the last five years in the KC metro.

In KC, I had Time Warner Cable and was lucky enough to have a Scientific Atlanta Dual Tuner HD DVR from them. Unfortunately I don't know how widespread these things are, although we've had it for over a year now.

I will getting comcast cable in Fremont and I am hoping someone can tell me here if they provide dual tuner HD DVR's like the one I used with TWC-KC. I would ask customer service but I know how customer service has a tough time answering questions about HD, DVR, and will probably say anything to get me to become a customer.

In KC, before the HD DVR, we had to have an HD tuner AND a dual tuner DVR. I didn't like having two boxes for one set up.

If you guys say the only thing they have is a SINGLE tuner DVR (HD or otherwise), I'll probably shoot myself. A single tuner DVR is a complete waste for me.

Thanks!!

Comcast is using the Motorola 6412 dual tuner DVR. It has it's share of problems but works just fine.

rest easy pappy....the guide is different than what you saw on the SA box, but the 6412 is a decent Dual Tuner HD DVR and comcast has a pretty decent lineup of HD channels in Fremont.

I want to get the box that has these cool little ports on it..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/6412-HDMI.jpg


Motorola 6412 Phase 3 (tylerpruitt.blogspot.com/)

I want to get the box that has these cool little ports on it..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/6412-HDMI.jpg


Motorola 6412 Phase 3 (tylerpruitt.blogspot.com/)


GIMME GIMME GIMME. I'm convinced my silly DVI-HDMI converter is causing all sorts of problems on my setup. also the SATA port has got to be useful somehow...if I could ever figure out how to set it up. I have a spare 120GB sata drive sitting around that would certainly go in to action immediately.

I guess the answers to my question about HD coverage of the shuttle launch raised an eyebrow... :p

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5881098#post5881098
HDNet Exclusive HD coverage of Discovery Launch - AVS Forum

I that same messag on my box 3 weeks ago. Phase 2 was already complete, so I am assuming that the latest would be Phase 3. I have that same message again this AM except that it is 7-14, so I guess they got slowed down and will begin Phase 3 now.
I just ran through all my channels and Comcast hasn't done squat as far as any 256 QAM conversion here in Santa Rosa. The only 256 QAM channels here are the ones that have always been 256 QAM. :rolleyes:

I guess we're not even in the barrel, just the scrapings off the bottom of the barrel..

In Rohnert Park Phase 3 went last night as scheduled.

Keenan, are you saying that channel 484 (Ph 1), 135 (Ph 2), and 178 (Ph 3) are not 256QAM today? Each of these channels are in the Digital Classic tier, the lowest priced digital package.

I just ran through all my channels and Comcast hasn't done squat as far as any 256 QAM conversion here in Santa Rosa. The only 256 QAM channels here are the ones that have always been 256 QAM. :rolleyes:

I guess we're not even in the barrel, just the scrapings off the bottom of the barrel..
When I checked this morning at 7:00am, I found that Phase 3 completed some time last night in Novato. :D

I guess the answers to my question about HD coverage of the shuttle launch raised an eyebrow... :p

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5881098#post5881098
HDNet Exclusive HD coverage of Discovery Launch - AVS Forum

troublemaker!!! :D

I just ran through all my channels and Comcast hasn't done squat as far as any 256 QAM conversion here in Santa Rosa. The only 256 QAM channels here are the ones that have always been 256 QAM. :rolleyes:

I guess we're not even in the barrel, just the scrapings off the bottom of the barrel..


Looks like the Saramilgatos 550Mhz network has completed conversion through phase 4...Just looked at a handful of stations that were on the list Mr Johnson provided for Phase 4 (was to begin on 7/13) and they were all kicked over to 256QAM in the last day or so.

...I didnt think you could go any lower than us poor sobs...but...

In Rohnert Park Phase 3 went last night as scheduled.

Keenan, are you saying that channel 484 (Ph 1), 135 (Ph 2), and 178 (Ph 3) are not 256QAM today? Each of these channels are in the Digital Classic tier, the lowest priced digital package.
We don't even have those channels up here.

Other than the obvious 256QAM HD channels, the only other ones are,

189-KQED
190-KQED
191-KQED
192-KQED
194-ABC News Now
183-Style
186-KNTV Weather
136-G4
400-CSNET

That's it, and I'm certain those channels have been 256QAM since they were put on the system.

FYI...Comcast will be increasing the download speed of their Internet Service to 6Mb/sec (currently 4Mb/sec) over the next few months.

I'd rather see the price dropped or upload increased but better than nothing...as long as I get my HD!!!!!

(I think lots of people are jumping on SBC's new $15/mth offering (1.5Mb/s)...

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/12120597.htm

Looks like the Saramilgatos 550Mhz network has completed conversion through phase 4...Just looked at a handful of stations that were on the list Mr Johnson provided for Phase 4 (was to begin on 7/13) and they were all kicked over to 256QAM in the last day or so.

...I didnt think you could go any lower than us poor sobs...but...
Yeah, I don't know what they are doing up here, maybe Comcast isn't doing anything here since they got yelled at by the City Council awhile ago.

Any of you folks with Comcast's ear, I would love to hear what you could find out about Santa Rosa...

troublemaker!!! :D
Really, ask a few simple questions, and a boardroom brawl ensues.. :p :D

We don't even have those channels up here.

Other than the obvious 256QAM HD channels, the only other ones are,

189-KQED
190-KQED
191-KQED
192-KQED
194-ABC News Now
183-Style
186-KNTV Weather
136-G4
400-CSNET

That's it, and I'm certain those channels have been 256QAM since they were put on the system.

Here in RP 400-CSNet was Ph 1, 183 Style was Ph 2, and136 G4 was Ph 3.

Yeah, I don't know what they are doing up here, maybe Comcast isn't doing anything here since they got yelled at by the City Council awhile ago.

Any of you folks with Comcast's ear, I would love to hear what you could find out about Santa Rosa...Seems as though there are no changes here either. All the 64QAM stations appear still to be present and no new 256QAM ones have shown up. The only recent change has been that all of the 64QAM channels, except Comcast Sports Net, VH-1 Classic, VH-1 Country, and some PPV previews (and VOD), have become encrypted. Previously, there were a dozen or so, such as TVLAND and TCM, that were in the clear. I suppose this represents a "clean up" and that the VH-1 pair were oversights.

Here in RP 400-CSNet was Ph 1, 183 Style was Ph 2, and136 G4 was Ph 3.
Okay, then maybe those have been done, but nothing from 120 to 593, other than those 3, have been changed...

I don't know if this matters to you guys or if you guys are interested, but thought I'd post it anyways. I'm building an HD Media Center and I'm using the Fusion HDTV5 Gold card. This card does QAM and OTA. I used it to tune the unencrypted HD channels from Comcast. I was able to find all the channels, except for the KRON digital channel showing HDNET stuff.

Basically all the HD channels reside on these Fusion channels and their subchannels:

105 - INHD, INHD2, and HD Special Events
114 -
115 -
116 -
117 - PBSHD, PBS Encore

I'll update the exact sub channels and what is on each channel when I get home today.

GIMME GIMME GIMME. I'm convinced my silly DVI-HDMI converter is causing all sorts of problems on my setup. also the SATA port has got to be useful somehow...if I could ever figure out how to set it up. I have a spare 120GB sata drive sitting around that would certainly go in to action immediately.
The ethernet and USB are disabled by Comcast. I'm sure SATA will be too :(

I don't know if this matters to you guys or if you guys are interested, but thought I'd post it anyways. I'm building an HD Media Center and I'm using the Fusion HDTV5 Gold card. This card does QAM and OTA. I used it to tune the unencrypted HD channels from Comcast. I was able to find all the channels, except for the KRON digital channel showing HDNET stuff.

Basically all the HD channels reside on these Fusion channels and their subchannels:

105 - INHD, INHD2, and HD Special Events
114 -
115 -
116 -
117 - PBSHD, PBS Encore

I'll update the exact sub channels and what is on each channel when I get home today.
I've been curious about that card, evidently it also has a 5th gen ATSC chip on it, other than LG displays, it's the only product that has them so far.

105 - INHD, INHD2, and HD Special Events
114 -
115 -
116 -
117 - PBSHD, PBS Encore

I'll update the exact sub channels and what is on each channel when I get home today.In my area 114 is not carrying anything. I think most areas are roughly the same except for 550Mhz systems. The subchannels change every few weeks. Encryption comes on and off depending on your area. The locals are always unencrypted. Don't be surprised if stuff moves or gets encrypted overnight. The latest list I have is here, but it could be outdated already (or not valid for your area if it is 550Mhz)
Mhz psip cbl qam
555 5.1 705 79.1 KPIX-DT CBS HD
555 2.1 702 79.2 KTVU-DT FOX HD

681 725 105.1 HDSE HD Special Events
681 719 105.2 INHD IN HD
681 720 105.3 INHD2/FSBAHD IN HD2/FSBA HD

717 704 111.2 KRON-DT/HDNET KRON HD/HDNET

741 722 115.3 DISC-HD DISC HD Showcase

747 11.1 703 116.1 KNTV-DT NBC HD
747 11.2 186 116.2 KNTV-W NBC Weather
747 723 116.3 ESPN-HD ESPN HD

753 7.1 707 117.1 KGO-HD ABC HD
753 7.2 194 117.2 KGO-DT ABC DT
753 9.2 189 117.3 KQED-E KQED Encore
753 9.1 709 117.4 KQED-DT KQED HD
753 9.3 190 117.5 KQED-W KQED World
753 9.4 191 117.6 KQED-L KQED Life
753 9.5 192 117.7 KQED-K KQED Kids

I don't know if this matters to you guys or if you guys are interested, but thought I'd post it anyways. I'm building an HD Media Center and I'm using the Fusion HDTV5 Gold card. This card does QAM and OTA. I used it to tune the unencrypted HD channels from Comcast. I was able to find all the channels, except for the KRON digital channel showing HDNET stuff.

Basically all the HD channels reside on these Fusion channels and their subchannels:

105 - INHD, INHD2, and HD Special Events
114 -
115 -
116 -
117 - PBSHD, PBS Encore

I'll update the exact sub channels and what is on each channel when I get home today.

In San Francisco you will find:

75-2 ShowtimeHD (usually encrypted)
75-8 KRON-HD
105-1 inHD1
105-2 inHD2/FSBA HD
105-3 HD Special Events
114-7 KPIX-HD
114-8 KTVU-HD
115-1 HBOHD (usually encrypted)
115-3 VOD Barker Channel (not HD)
115-4 Discovery HD Theater
116-1 KNTV-HD
116-2 ESPN-HD
116-3 KNTV Weather Plus
117-1 KGO-HD
117-2 KQED-HD
117-3 KQED-E
117-4 KQED-W
117-5 KQED-L
117-6 KQED-K
117-7 KGO Plus
119-1 StarzHD (usually encrypted)
119-2 CinemaxHD (usually encrypted)

I've been curious about that card, evidently it also has a 5th gen ATSC chip on it, other than LG displays, it's the only product that has them so far.

Is there such thing as a "soft" cable card? i.e. is is possible to decrypt channels through some sort of legal software program? I imagine this would have to be done at the hardware level but i was curious if any cable co offered this.

Is there such thing as a "soft" cable card? i.e. is is possible to decrypt channels through some sort of legal software program? I imagine this would have to be done at the hardware level but i was curious if any cable co offered this.
I'm pretty sure there isn't such a thing currently, but with the OpenCable Applications Platform something like that may be possible although probably not for awhile.

I can ping my DVR 6412 ip address from my at home.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xaque
GIMME GIMME GIMME. I'm convinced my silly DVI-HDMI converter is causing all sorts of problems on my setup. also the SATA port has got to be useful somehow...if I could ever figure out how to set it up. I have a spare 120GB sata drive sitting around that would certainly go in to action immediately.

The ethernet and USB are disabled by Comcast. I'm sure SATA will be too

Is there such thing as a "soft" cable card? i.e. is is possible to decrypt channels through some sort of legal software program? I imagine this would have to be done at the hardware level but i was curious if any cable co offered this.

The short answer is cable card. You could get one and mod it to your PC. It would
take alot of work. Much easier to just get the DVR.

I can ping my DVR 6412 ip address from my at home.

HAH! Me too, that's neat... but can you download the MPEG files directly from the HDD? :cool:

I hear you can capture the stream from the Firewire output, which is enabled, but it only streams whatever is currently playing, you can't "back up" your DVR by drag& drop files off the HD to your PC other than by pushing "play" and capturing the stream, in realtime (ie. 240 mins for a 240 min movie...:(

I sure hope this is the place for this post.

I'm in the San Jose area with Comcast digital cable. Two days ago the PQ just soared above and beyond anything I've seen before.

The HD channels saw dramatic improvement. The Digital channels (120 and up) saw some improvement. The analog channels (2 to 82) have undergone an incredible improvement. I would say most of the analog channels now look as nice as a good dvd movie. Really, they're that good. At least as nice as the digital channels like National Geo and the Science Channel.

I called to offer an "attaboy" to Comcast. The CSR attributed the improvement to the creation of digital versions of our locals. But that's been in place for a long, long time.

I don't know why we've seen this improvement, but I sure hope it lasts!

Nice Job Comcast! :D

I sure hope this is the place for this post.

I'm in the San Jose area with Comcast digital cable. Two days ago the PQ just soared above and beyond anything I've seen before.

The HD channels saw dramatic improvement. The Digital channels (120 and up) saw some improvement. The analog channels (2 to 82) have undergone an incredible improvement. I would say most of the analog channels now look as nice as a good dvd movie. Really, they're that good. At least as nice as the digital channels like National Geo and the Science Channel.

I called to offer an "attaboy" to Comcast. The CSR attributed the improvement to the creation of digital versions of our locals. But that's been in place for a long, long time.

I don't know why we've seen this improvement, but I sure hope it lasts!



Nice Job Comcast! :D


Actually, I think he was reffering to digital simulcast, and that's fantastic news. I didn't realize it was coming this fast. I can't wait for it to hit oakland.

In the mid-peninsula/southbay I haven't seen any digital simulcast show up recently. It is easy to tell from the service menu whether a channel is digital or analog. I suggest OP verify the CSR's suggestion. I don't necessarily expect PQ to improve on the digital simulcast. It all depends on frame size and bitrate. It can actually look much worse than analog, which in my area is pretty good. I've seen OLN, Golf Channel, and TVLand digital simulcast and they look worse than analog versions. On CRT 4:3 they look ok. When stretched to 16:9 on 45" those digital simulcast channels looked pretty bad.

I'm a little confused by OP statement that digital versions of locals have been around for long long time. I think he is confused in thinking digital cable provided digital versions of locals, when in fact they were tuning the analog versions for anything under 99.

Does anyone else's 6412 remote control have what can only be called a 'slow reaction time' to commands?

I often will press a button on the remote, and it won't actually perform the command until 10 seconds (sometimes more...sometimes much more) later.

It queues up the commands also. Say I were to press the page-down x 5 while in the guide. It'll just sit there for a bit, and then page-down 5 times. This morning it queued 'stop' for long enough to fast forward over 30minutes of programming.

My only complaint so far with this thing...someone help!

Thanks,
rb

I sure hope this is the place for this post.

I'm in the San Jose area with Comcast digital cable. Two days ago the PQ just soared above and beyond anything I've seen before.

The HD channels saw dramatic improvement. The Digital channels (120 and up) saw some improvement. The analog channels (2 to 82) have undergone an incredible improvement. I would say most of the analog channels now look as nice as a good dvd movie. Really, they're that good. At least as nice as the digital channels like National Geo and the Science Channel.

I called to offer an "attaboy" to Comcast. The CSR attributed the improvement to the creation of digital versions of our locals. But that's been in place for a long, long time.

I don't know why we've seen this improvement, but I sure hope it lasts!

Nice Job Comcast! :D

justsc,

Like the others said, this sounds like digital simulcast (which is different than Comcast sending an HD Version of a station on a separate channel)..Digital simulcast is where comcast sends both a Analog version and a digital version of the same signal on the cable line and then programs the Cable box to use the digital version (and a regular TV tuner would just use the analog version)...If it is, Comcast is early in implementing it in this area (this is the first report I have seen of it out here).

To verify this is what they are doing on your system can you do the following


With your TV on tune your box to one of "nice" looking channels between 2-82...then go over to your cable box and push the "power" button on the front of the box (to turn it off)...then right after that push the "Select" button on the box ...That should bring up a diagostic screen on your tv...Then use the "Down" area on the box to move the cursor to the line marked "d04 Inband Status"...At that point hit "Select" again. That should bring up a status screen...Under the "Mode" does it say "Analog" or "256 QAM"?

If it says 256QAM then they have just rolled out Digital Simulcasting...when you are done, just power the box again and you'll be back to regular tv.

btw..Time for a new DVD Player if you think it looks as good as a DVD player..the rate they are using is <1/2 of a good DVD (although if they do it right and give it enough bandwidth then it should look noticably better than the old analog signal.

Thanks in advance for checking this

Does anyone else's 6412 remote control have what can only be called a 'slow reaction time' to commands?

Yes, it's pretty common, sometimes it's fine and sometimes it's slow. And it seems to have a fairly narrow beam angle.

Is it possible to keep my DVR AND get a cablecard? I absolutely love my 6412 unit but I now have a dilema. It may be solved by the new HDMI enabled 6412 boxes but I doubt I'll see one of those for a long time.

I have a really stupid reason for this and I realize that I should probably just solve the real problem at hand here but I'm trying to figure out if there are other options.

Basically, the DVI-HDMI connection to my new panasonic plasma is for some reason very poorly calibrated. It comes into the HDMI input quite hazy and overbright(I keep brightness between 3-12 out of 63) and has no where near the black level and color detail of the internal QAM tuner. Of course I can only get the free HD channels on the QAM tuner without a cablecard and I can't watch the DVR recordings obviously. I've posted here about this problem and nobody has any sure answeres. I've attempted to just calibrate it to compensate the problem but it's clearly not quite as good. Component doesn't have this problem but component obviously doesn't have the detail and "perfectness" that the DVI/HDMI connect gives you.

I've heard this could be some kind of "black cropping" issue or something. It's definately not a "bad" picture, it's just not up to par with the onboard qam tuner and it should be by all means. If anybody who reads this thread knows a good solution to this let me know because I haven't heard else. Otherwise, does anybody know or a legit way to get both DVR and cablecard?

You can pay $6.95/month additional for a CableCard and keep your DVR. I think if you tell Comcast your "main" device is the CableCard and price the DVR as an add on, you might be paying the same you are currently paying, but I forget how the pricing at Comcast works. I think you are supposed to get 1 "tuner" (whether that be STB or CableCard) with Digital cable and each additional costs more, but I also recall DVR users kind of get taken advantage of because they receive no "credit" for the included tuner and just pay $10 additional (where if you had an STB/CableCard and added a DVR you'd pay the same $10 additional). I might have recalled incorrect and different CSRs tell you different things. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

It seems your HDMI calibration problem might not be solved even with HDMI 6412. Wouldn't the calibration problem just continue being a problem? There are no DVR solutions other than what Comcast chooses to offer you. CableCard was supposed to help promote 3rd party DVR market, but the way it is priced by Comcast makes it economically unviable for someone to build a CableCard DVR.

You can pay $6.95/month additional for a CableCard and keep your DVR. I think if you tell Comcast your "main" device is the CableCard and price the DVR as an add on, you might be paying the same you are currently paying, but I forget how the pricing at Comcast works. I think you are supposed to get 1 "tuner" (whether that be STB or CableCard) with Digital cable and each additional costs more, but I also recall DVR users kind of get taken advantage of because they receive no "credit" for the included tuner and just pay $10 additional (where if you had an STB/CableCard and added a DVR you'd pay the same $10 additional). I might have recalled incorrect and different CSRs tell you different things. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.


The Cablecard itself is no charge..you can have one with substituted with your regular Digital service if you want (instead of an STB)...The 6.95 charge you mentioned is the 2nd Outlet fee (ie a 2nd TV etc)

An HD box is a $5 upgrade from the included STB/cablecard (in place of the stb/cablecard with digital service)...The DVR is $4.95 on top of that so its $9.95 if you want a 6412 as your first box...it would then be $6.95 if you wanted a cablecard or regular STB as a 2nd source

likewise...
If you get a cablecard and then request a DVR on top of that I think it would be should be $5 HD box surcharge + 4.95 DVR Fee + $6.95 Additional Outlet (again $16.90 on top of regular digital service for an STB/Cablecard and DVR..since its treated as 2 outlets)

likewise...
If you get a cablecard and then request a DVR on top of that I think it would be should be $5 HD box surcharge + 4.95 DVR Fee + $6.95 Additional Outlet (again $16.90 on top of regular digital service for an STB/Cablecard and DVR..since its treated as 2 outlets)
Yes, this is where the confusion usually starts for me. Some people tell me they are charged only $9.95 in this situation and others tell me $16.90 for the same 2nd outlet DVR.

The way it's listed on my bill,

Digital Platinum....(includes, blah blah.etc...and digital converter and remote if applicable)....53.95

DVR service with HDTV....9.95

Digital Addl Outlet...(includes: Digital converter and remote if applicable)...6.95

I'm, pretty sure an additional DVR would only be 9.95

I had a DVR first and then added CableCARD.

The way it's listed on my bill,

Digital Platinum....(includes, blah blah.etc...and digital converter and remote if applicable)....53.95

DVR service with HDTV....9.95

Digital Addl Outlet...(includes: Digital converter and remote if applicable)...6.95

I'm, pretty sure an additional DVR would only be 9.95

I had a DVR first and then added CableCARD.

At least the way I intrepret comcasts attempt as logic is that If you added another DVR (on top of your Initial DVR and CableCard/2nd digital outlet) is that your bill would go up $16.90 (incl an additional digital outlet charge)

Correlated with what I've since learned is the QAM64 to QAM256 upgrade, I've had some loss of PQ and the D04 Inband Status screen of the Motorola 6200 shows a SNR of between 32 and 35dB but an AGC of about 75% which it describes as FAIR to POOR.

Is this typical or should I be calling Comcast?

Thanks.

I think in practice, it is 6.95 for an additional outlet with the amount including either a 5.00 HD converter or a CableCARD. An additional DVR is 9.95, including the digital outlet fee. This is all above and beyond the initial equipment. That's the way the supervisor who came with the CableCARD installer explained it to me anyway.

I recall this because it seemed to me sort of stupid at the time to get a CableCARD when another DVR was just another 3$ on top of the card/digital outlet fee. Of course I wanted the card because it does enable a somewhat better picture than the STBs.

Of course someone here with 2 DVRs should be able to answer this question, I think somebody who posts here does...

I have 2 DVRs, and my bill looks the same as Keenan's, except for this:

DVR Addt'l Outlet ... 9.95

Well, that's great. One way to look at it is that they give away DVRs in order to kill CableCard. Once CableCard is dead, they can jack up DVR fees!

I called a couple of weeks back and wanted to switch out our second outlet regular digital box for another DVR. After having it downstairs, we wanted to have one upstairs as well, thinking it would be only $3 more since we were already paying for a second outlet. I was told it was going to be 9.95 on top of the 6.95 we were already paying. Since I had a nasty cold and didn't feel like arguing at the time I said nevermind, but do plan on calling again and seeing if I get a different answer from a different person or can talk my way into just paying the 9.95. It seems crazy to have to pay both and we won't do that. It is reassuring to read that others aren't paying both fees. Just thought I'd share. . .

Today I called to see about getting a cable card for the same TV that has the DVR. I pitched it as "for the same" TV because I hoped that they wouldn't charge me an extra digiatal outlet fee. The operator told me that I could have the PVR or the cable card but not both. Rather than argue, I decided to call back later. I may go to my local (Foster City) comcast office and see if they will let me pick up a cable card the same way they will let you pick up a cable box. If that fails, I will tell them that I need the cable card for my 3rd TV.

I just subscribe to expanded basic and pay an additional $5 for HD with a box. For many months I was getting Turner Classic Movies and enjoy watching some of the old films. Now that they are changing the system I no longer get TCM. Would I have to pay $9.95 for digital if I already have a box, or would it just be an additional $4.95? I haven't called Comcast yet until I understood it better. Thanks.

Today I called to see about getting a cable card for the same TV that has the DVR. I pitched it as "for the same" TV because I hoped that they wouldn't charge me an extra digiatal outlet fee. The operator told me that I could have the PVR or the cable card but not both. Rather than argue, I decided to call back later. I may go to my local (Foster City) comcast office and see if they will let me pick up a cable card the same way they will let you pick up a cable box. If that fails, I will tell them that I need the cable card for my 3rd TV.

I had no trouble getting both a Cable Card and HD DVR from Comcast in Sacramento. You might want to keep calling until you get a more agreeable CSR.

I had no trouble getting both a Cable Card and HD DVR from Comcast in Sacramento. You might want to keep calling until you get a more agreeable CSR.
I think what he was trying to do was avoid the $6.95 charge for the additional outlet, and he sort of has a point, if these cards were commercially available, one could hook up as many TVs as they want, just like you can with basic cable. Since the card decrypts only the digital non-in-the-clear channels, the cableco can ding you for the access. The card itself only costs about $70.

I'm hooked on the card because of the decidedly better PQ it allows from the cable feed. I was comparing Contact the other day on Cinemax and the contrast and black detail made the CC feed a better looking picture. As I've noted before, these Moto STBs tend to crush the blacks, at least with my setup. My brightness setting is about 5-8 notches lower with CC than it is with the STB

FYI, regarding my signal problems a few posts back, on a whim I picked up one of these (broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/signal_booster/) today. I figured that since the STB worked fine without the feed being split off for the display that using one of these would amplify the signal while not amplifying any noise that was in the line. I was concerned that it might amplify the signal too much but it works perfect, my AGC and SNR numbers are back to what they were months ago, and NO correctable errors are logged either. Granted, Comcast should have been the one to fix this but I got it fairly cheap and it saves me the time in having to deal with Comcast.

Now I can be confident of recording a program and not have it be a pixelated, unwatchable mess.

FYI, regarding my signal problems a few posts back, on a whim I picked up one of these (broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/signal_booster/) today. I figured that since the STB worked fine without the feed being split off for the display that using one of these would amplify the signal while not amplifying any noise that was in the line. I was concerned that it might amplify the signal too much but it works perfect, my AGC and SNR numbers are back to what they were months ago, and NO correctable errors are logged either. Granted, Comcast should have been the one to fix this but I got it fairly cheap and it saves me the time in having to deal with Comcast.

Now I can be confident of recording a program and not have it be a pixelated, unwatchable mess.

Keenan, where did you put the booster in you "string o' devices"? Did you put it right before the STB? I've been thinking of getting somethin like this too. I'm have signal problems in one of the rooms and I'm hoping something like this will boost it up a notch.

Keenan, where did you put the booster in you "string o' devices"? Did you put it right before the STB? I've been thinking of getting somethin like this too. I'm have signal problems in one of the rooms and I'm hoping something like this will boost it up a notch.
I put it before the splitter that feeds the STB and the display. The line before the amp is direct all the way to the pole with maybe 2 joiners in it.

So far I'm very happy with it, I've had terrible AGC and SNR numbers for months and many recordings I'd made were destroyed by the low signal strength on the second tuner in the STB/DVR. I suspect I could even hook up 1 or 2 additional outlets if needed.

From the bit of research I've done the Motorola and the Electroline (electroline.com/en/products/drop_amplifiers/eda/index.html) products are supposedly the best quality. The Radio Shack stuff is apparently junk.

I can highly recommend Electroline drop amps. I have an EDA-2400 that has done great things for both analog and digital signal strength. There's a longish writeup about my experiences here:

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3725649#post3725649

Make sure your amp does return path pass thru or your HSI and/or VOD won't work. Most amps amplify forward direction only. If you split too many times, even if the picture is fine, return path may be attenuated so much HSI and/or VOD won't work reliably. Most folks find it is best to place the drop amp as close to drop point as possible. Reason being it is best to amplify the cleanest/strongest signal, rather than one that has chance to attenuate and pick up more noise in the house. This is more important for ch1-99 than the digital channels. With digital it is clear whether there is problem or not. With analog you get gradual degradation.

If you suspect signal strength problem, the easiest thing to do is temporarily get rid of all your splits and connect directly to drop point. If the situation improves, there's a good chance you have a signal strength problem. Remember, every 2-way split drops your signal strength around 55%. A 4-way split is roughly equivalent to 2 x 2-way splits. Signal strength drops off pretty quick as you increase the # of splits.

I just subscribe to expanded basic and pay an additional $5 for HD with a box. For many months I was getting Turner Classic Movies and enjoy watching some of the old films. Now that they are changing the system I no longer get TCM. Would I have to pay $9.95 for digital if I already have a box, or would it just be an additional $4.95? I haven't called Comcast yet until I understood it better. Thanks.

TCM is part of the Digital Classic Tier, it's $9.95 for that tier (and then you get a whole bunch of Digital SD channels and a few HD Channels...although as you probably know...Milpitas is a 550Mhz area so you dont get INHD, FSNHD etc which would normally be part of Digital Classic also)

If you suspect signal strength problem, the easiest thing to do is temporarily get rid of all your splits and connect directly to drop point. If the situation improves, there's a good chance you have a signal strength problem. Remember, every 2-way split drops your signal strength around 55%. A 4-way split is roughly equivalent to 2 x 2-way splits. Signal strength drops off pretty quick as you increase the # of splits.
This is how I determined it was a signal strength problem, removed the splitter for the TV feed and the DVR worked okay, the numbers weren't as good as they are now, but at least I didn't get tiling and loss of picture. I've got numbers now I haven't seen in months.

Good archive post BTW.. :)

FYI, regarding my signal problems a few posts back, on a whim I picked up one of these (broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/signal_booster/) today. That unit always gets good reviews. If anyone is interested, it's available at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000066E6Y/ref=pd_sxp_f/104-4347471-5435110?v=glance&s=electronics) for $43 with free shipping. Nice! (Circuit City sells it for $80.) It's about time I got one, too.

Does anyone else's 6412 remote control have what can only be called a 'slow reaction time' to commands?

I often will press a button on the remote, and it won't actually perform the command until 10 seconds (sometimes more...sometimes much more) later.

It queues up the commands also. Say I were to press the page-down x 5 while in the guide. It'll just sit there for a bit, and then page-down 5 times. This morning it queued 'stop' for long enough to fast forward over 30minutes of programming.

My only complaint so far with this thing...someone help!

Thanks,
rb

I notice this from time to time. Obviously the remote is working since the commands do pile up and then the box processes each one very rapidly. I just consider this an early adopter glitch. It happens very infrequently.
Very occasionally I'll record something. Shows up in my list - but can't access it. What happens slightly more often is I'll be recording something and have glitches in watching it from the beginning while the recording is taking place.


...mike

That unit always gets good reviews. If anyone is interested, it's available at Amazon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000066E6Y/ref=pd_sxp_f/104-4347471-5435110?v=glance&s=electronics) for $43 with free shipping. Nice! (Circuit City sells it for $80.) It's about time I got one, too.
Personally, I suggest first thing you do is complain to Comcast about poor signal strength. There have been a few instances where they just install an Electroline amp for free (after confirming weak signal). Other cases, they charge you something like $25-$30 for the amp.

I haven't used the Motorolas, but they look fine.