Your *2nd* equipment is when you really start feeling the fees. The 2nd CableCARD or STB is $6.95 per month. The 2nd HD STB is $11.95 per month. The 2nd DVR is $16.90 per month.


I cannot swear this to be true still, but when the installer came to put the card in he came with a supervisor. I asked about the additional equipment charges as I felt $6.95 was pretty steep for a CableCARD. We went through about 3-4 different scenarios and the bottom line was that I could have had a second DVR for $9.95 a month, just $3 more than the CableCARD. I currently had/have 1 DVR/STB.

Of course the reason for getting the CC was to utilize the tuner in my display and it's superior decoding over the STB even though it would seem to make sense to get the DVR for $3 more than the CC.

If I asked today for another DVR at the price mentioned above I don't know what the response would be, but at the time, I could have had a 2nd DVR for just $9.95 more per month.

FWIW, I have seen posts from folks getting CableCARDS, or additional digital hookups, for as low as $1.95 from Comcast in other areas around the country. I have not seen any rates higher than they are here in the bay area though.

But if you have ideas or concerns let Comcast know, they do read this thread and do try an impliment what they can.

I would like to know if they have any plans to implement in the Sunnyvale 550Mhz system what I believe was implemented recently in SaraMilGatos - conversion of all digital to 256QAM, and the using the freed-up bandwidth to add InHD/InHD2, or whatever I'd need to get FSN-HD when the SJ Sharks are in HD. Similarly I'd like to know if/when they'd be implementing digital simulcast, which *might* give me a reason to use my 6412 to record SD "analog" channels instead of using my tivo. But the overall idea is "I'd just like to know what is and is not going on" - amazingly I'd be happier to hear "no we're not doing any of the above" than hear nothing at all, but obviously happiest to hear "it's planned for date xx". I wouldn't complain if 'date xx' turned out to be slightly optimistic.

Thanks Kevin

Does this include Discovery HD as well as INHD 1 and 2... I really like some of the programs they are shoiwng including Corwin's Quest, and might be willing to pony up that extra $15 / month.

The setup will get a little complicated as I will continue to use my LG 4200A tuner for OTA stuff

regards

Peter
No problem Peter, the Digital classic tier includes INHD, INHD2, Discovery HD and ESPNHD

Kevin

The way I read it, the encryption will affect all customers starting 4am and the grandfathered boxes will get authorization to decrypt. So if you are grandfathered customer using internal QAM tuner w/o CableCARD on some of your displays, you will be affected. This doesn't apply to HD locals, which won't be encrypted.Could be, but it says existing customers would not be impacted, I read that as saying nothing will change for them/us..?

IOW, you should still get everything you get today with QAM w/o CableCARD tomorrow..?It turned out the way I suspected. It would have been nice if it worked the way you read it. All the satellite channels (INHD1/2, HDSE, ESPNHD, DISCHD) are now encrypted. Grandfathered boxes received authorization to decrypt. At least that is how it is working in my area. So basically your QAM tuner (w/o CableCARD) is only able to receive HD locals, which basically makes them only useful during primetime.

Does anybody know if the Berkeley(adeline) office has new Phase 3 boxes? I don't want to bother bring mine in if they aren't there.

... I could have had a second DVR for $9.95 a month, just $3 more than the CableCARD....

This is what I "love" about comcast. You call or go in and ask, "can I get a better deal than I am now". They always respond that you can ADD services and it'll ONLY cost X dollars more.

They always want you to add services. They never cut costs for the same services which is the way my wireless service works, i.e. I get more minutes for the same cost every year or so.

Best,
jeff

Peter

It is not as bad as that, you can add the digital classic "tier" to basic cable so it comes out to

Basic cable $12
HDTV box $5
Digital classic $10

Total: $27

Only the DVR requires you have standard (expanded) cable which pushes up the monthly.

Kevin

I just talked to Comcast and this is not an option. I was told that in order to get INHD1, INHD2 and Discovery HD I would need the standard cable package ($45) and then add Digital Classic ($10) on top of that plus get HD ($5), so the cost would be over $60 :-(

The guy I talked to said you could add Digital Classic to limited basic ($12), but you would NOT get INHD1, INHD2 or Discovery HD - even if you got the HD option.

Bummer...

peter

:mad: I've decided to cancel my service with Comcast. Well, not exactly my service, but my father's. He still had 'analog' service (Standard Basic, I believe) but was able to tune in-the-clear QAM channels to receive ESPN-HD, Discover HD, and the INHD channels. I recorded shows with a MyHD MDP-130 because they were unencrypted. Apparently, per the memo they sent out, Comcast is now encrypting these channels for future HD customers, and of course they are no longer in-the-clear. Ironically, last week I had decided that we should have our service upgraded to get some additional HD programming (sports packages). There's no point now. Encryption = no more recording to PC.

For all of you who have already had HD and are "grandfathered", I envy you. Their phone reps intimated that there was no possibility of getting new service "grandfathered". Ugh. DirecTV here I come.

[...]
Ironically, last week I had decided that we should have our service upgraded to get some additional HD programming (sports packages). There's no point now. Encryption = no more recording to PC.

For all of you who have already had HD and are "grandfathered", I envy you. Their phone reps intimated that there was no possibility of getting new service "grandfathered". Ugh. DirecTV here I come.

But you can't record DirectTV HD to your PC either, right?

By the way, what's the status of encryption of streams recorded from the Firewire output of Comcast boxes? Are channels like ESPN-HD and inHD encrypted, too?

But you can't record DirectTV HD to your PC either, right?
At this point I'm just tired of Comcast, regardless of whether I can or can't record HD streams. I wish I had read this friggin thread yesterday, then I would have upgraded immediately. Not sure if that would've ensured that I'd get the channels unencrypted, but at least I would've had a chance to try. I'd stay with them (and do the upgrade to a digital tier package) if they just gave me unencrypted HD. But they won't, so my money goes elsewhere. A rival service now has a new subscriber, while Comcast just lost one.

I'm wondering whether the "customer" is grandfathered or if the current equipment is grandfathered or if it is the current service subscription level being grandfathered.

For example if you are grandfathered and you add a new TV so you need a new STB. Does that mean the new STB is grandfathered also? I'd hope so.

Another example, if you had one level of service, decide to upgrade to higher level, then came back to original level, are you still grandfathered. Again, I'd hope you are still grandfathered no matter how many different subscriptions you start sampling.

I just talked to Comcast and this is not an option. I was told that in order to get INHD1, INHD2 and Discovery HD I would need the standard cable package ($45) and then add Digital Classic ($10) on top of that plus get HD ($5), so the cost would be over $60 :-(

The guy I talked to said you could add Digital Classic to limited basic ($12), but you would NOT get INHD1, INHD2 or Discovery HD - even if you got the HD option.

Bummer...

peter
Peter

That is strange, I had it that way for 6 months. Comcast sometimes don't understand their own tiers. I could have changed I guess

Kevin

I'm wondering whether the "customer" is grandfathered or if the current equipment is grandfathered or if it is the current service subscription level being grandfathered.

For example if you are grandfathered and you add a new TV so you need a new STB. Does that mean the new STB is grandfathered also? I'd hope so.

Another example, if you had one level of service, decide to upgrade to higher level, then came back to original level, are you still grandfathered. Again, I'd hope you are still grandfathered no matter how many different subscriptions you start sampling.
I'd like to know the answers to these questions as well. Per your previous post that INHD1/2, HDSE, ESPNHD, DISCHD are all now encrypted, it doesn't seem as if anything was "grandfathered", which seems to contradict directly what was said in the message from Mr.J. "Grandfathered to me means if I hook the raw cable to a QAM tuner I should still get the channels(Disc-HD ESPN-HD) I had yesterday.

Mikef5, time to heat up those communication lines again.. :D

It would be nice if Comcast would give us a bone, up here at least, instead of taking things away...and still charging the SAME PRICE as folks who get EVERYTHING.

I'd like to know the answers to these questions as well. Per your previous post that INHD1/2, HDSE, ESPNHD, DISCHD are all now encrypted, it doesn't seem as if anything was "grandfathered", which seems to contradict directly what was said in the message from Mr.J. "Grandfathered to me means if I hook the raw cable to a QAM tuner I should still get the channels(Disc-HD ESPN-HD) I had yesterday.
The thing is I don't know how they would implement the above interpretation. It's not like each home gets a separate pipe. Your whole neighborhood shares the same signal. If they encrypt it for one, they encrypt it for all. For STBs and CableCARD, that is ok, they just create a special tier which allows your device to decrypt. I'm pretty sure the TVs using plain old QAM tuners are not addressable in any way, so they only way to stop them from receiving is to encrypt, and of course, w/o CableCARD you cannot decrypt.

I'm wondering whether the "customer" is grandfathered or if the current equipment is grandfathered or if it is the current service subscription level being grandfathered.

For example if you are grandfathered and you add a new TV so you need a new STB. Does that mean the new STB is grandfathered also? I'd hope so.

Another example, if you had one level of service, decide to upgrade to higher level, then came back to original level, are you still grandfathered. Again, I'd hope you are still grandfathered no matter how many different subscriptions you start sampling.
Good question. The 3 people I spoke to reiterated that I had not had the requisite subscription level, therefore I was SOL. This was a "system-level change", and apparently no one at Comcast's 'customer service' center has the ability to do anything about it. To me it sounds like an internal product # change or something. It seems like accomodations could be made to those who explicitly ask, but alas who cares about subscribers as long as they get our money.

The thing is I don't know how they would implement the above interpretation. It's not like each home gets a separate pipe. Your whole neighborhood shares the same signal. If they encrypt it for one, they encrypt it for all. For STBs and CableCARD, that is ok, they just create a special tier which allows your device to decrypt. I'm pretty sure the TVs using plain old QAM tuners are not addressable in any way, so they only way to stop them from receiving is to encrypt, and of course, w/o CableCARD you cannot decrypt.
Agreed, that's why when I read the initial post this was in the back of my mind the whole time, "how the hell are they going to be able to that?".

I still don't understand what, if anything, was grandfathered...was he referring to cost only..?

Yesterday I could view Disc-HD and ESPN-HD with just the cable to the TV, no CC, today I can't, so how is that not costing me anything...(haven't actually tried yet, using your experience for basis).

I'll have to read it again..

Well, i have a cablecard and yesterday was able to receive INHD etc. Today i can't. I called Comcast asking about this grandfathered thing and they are clueless, only offering the digital tier as a fix. A technician is coming out tomorrow anyway because i was not happy with the stutterting of the HD channels. I won't be surprised if he is clueless as well.

zack

I had the 6412 DVR installed 3 weeks ago. I noticed yesterday that the HD channels weren't as sharp as before. Also, the screen did not fill out on these channels like before. It was as if I had the box to output 480. I checked my cable box settings and it does show 1080 being displayed. Anyone else having these problems? Does this have anything to do with encryption?

i'm sorry to hear that everyone here is having problems with this and i can feel your pain. i'm only grateful that i didn't spend $250 last weekend to buy an QAM tuner only to find that i would have gotten less than expected.

nevertheless, i can report that my old Comcast HD box (no DVR) which i have had for the past year and a half still is giving me my full HD channels including INHD1 and INHD2 this evening. so, i guess the boxes being grandfathered in appears to be indeed as promised. I'm surprised, however, that the CableCard people like deathspared are having problems since i would guess that this card should be enabled much like my box.

good luck everyone. i hope you guys can figure out a reasonable solution/alternative.

I had the 6412 DVR installed 3 weeks ago. I noticed yesterday that the HD channels weren't as sharp as before. Also, the screen did not fill out on these channels like before. It was as if I had the box to output 480. I checked my cable box settings and it does show 1080 being displayed. Anyone else having these problems? Does this have anything to do with encryption?

i unfortunately can't say i've had any extreme problems. i find the quality can vary day to day which suggests to me that Comcast doesn't use constant bandwidth or compression levels for these channels or perhaps, the providers to Comcast are providing variable quality material. i don't, however, understand why your screen isn't "filling out." do you mean that you have black bars for the HD stations?

So it looks like right now:

Grandfather customer = Motorola STB

CableCARD != Motorola STB

CableCARD customer != Grandfather customer

Hopefully this is temporary mistake. I do think ClearQAM customers are just relegated to HD locals and that won't change. I think (hopefully) existing CableCARD customers will become Grandfathered customer as things clear up.

Hello all, new to the forum, but had a question for other comcast customers in the bay area. Espn hd, discovery, theater, inhd1 and 2 were uncrypted and my lg tv with built in tuner was able to receiver these channels w/o cable card until this morning oct 13, 05. did comcast encrypt these channels for all?

just called comcast and it's ridiculous to get those 4 extra HD channels for additional $50, i guess more and more people will go for satellite, they offer tons of HD channel for less, it's obvious that comcast will lose more customers.

Convince me who are willing to pay extra $50 for that, people who get "grandfathered" will stay with comcast, people didn't get will probably move away, as a whole, comcast lose customer.

why can't comcast just offer these 4 HD channel for extra $10-15 bucks? Comcast, count how many revenue u will gain by doing this!!!

Peter

That is strange, I had it that way for 6 months. Comcast sometimes don't understand their own tiers. I could have changed I guess

Kevin

Kevin,
It worked that way because the INHD's, etc. were unencrypted.

What they're really saying is that you need to have expanded basic (2-82 or so analog channels) plus the digital tier (not necessarily digital classic) to get the INHD's, etc. (INHD's, etc. = INHD, INHD2, ESPHD, DISC-HD, HDSD).

Like I said, they always want you to sign up for more, more, more... for a couple more bucks, on a special promotion that expires and then your bill will jump. I'm up to nearly $60 on my bill (nearly $120 counting HSI), and I'm not happy about it. The extra channels I get with the digital classic, I never watch since the pq is really bad, much worse than analog, but I had to add the $10 so that the INHD's etc. would not go away. Basic cable's not an option as the wife's hooked on USA, FX, TNT, etc.

jeff

Derek87,
Yes my HD channels have black bars. The resolution on the HD channels is quite poor. I've had HD for anout 1 & 1/2 yrs and have never had this problem. I'll probably contct Comcast asap. Thanks

i'm sorry to hear that everyone here is having problems with this and i can feel your pain. i'm only grateful that i didn't spend $250 last weekend to buy an QAM tuner only to find that i would have gotten less than expected.

nevertheless, i can report that my old Comcast HD box (no DVR) which i have had for the past year and a half still is giving me my full HD channels including INHD1 and INHD2 this evening. so, i guess the boxes being grandfathered in appears to be indeed as promised. I'm surprised, however, that the CableCard people like deathspared are having problems since i would guess that this card should be enabled much like my box.

good luck everyone. i hope you guys can figure out a reasonable solution/alternative.

Derek

what plan do you have and how much is it costing if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks

Peter

<snip>
why can't comcast just offer these 4 HD channel for extra $10-15 bucks? Comcast, count how many revenue u will gain by doing this!!!
Well said - if it was like Kevin had said whereby you had to pay $15 on top of limited basic cable most folks here would feel that this was reasonable.

peter

Kevin,
It worked that way because the INHD's, etc. were unencrypted.

What they're really saying is that you need to have expanded basic (2-82 or so analog channels) plus the digital tier (not necessarily digital classic) to get the INHD's, etc. (INHD's, etc. = INHD, INHD2, ESPHD, DISC-HD, HDSD).

Like I said, they always want you to sign up for more, more, more... for a couple more bucks, on a special promotion that expires and then your bill will jump. I'm up to nearly $60 on my bill (nearly $120 counting HSI), and I'm not happy about it. The extra channels I get with the digital classic, I never watch since the pq is really bad, much worse than analog, but I had to add the $10 so that the INHD's etc. would not go away. Basic cable's not an option as the wife's hooked on USA, FX, TNT, etc.

jeff

jeff

I guess you are right, the CSR's are normally confused and the fact they were unencrypted just made the channels work anyway.

There was always confusion between the digital classic tier on basic cable and digital classic with standard cable

Kevin

So it looks like right now:

Grandfather customer = Motorola STB

CableCARD != Motorola STB

CableCARD customer != Grandfather customer

Hopefully this is temporary mistake. I do think ClearQAM customers are just relegated to HD locals and that won't change. I think (hopefully) existing CableCARD customers will become Grandfathered customer as things clear up.

I think that CableCARD customers will only be able to get INHD1/2 etc. if they have the right level of "service" - standard cable ($45) plus a digital package ($10 upwards). They just won't need to pay the $5 monthly HD fee.

Anyway, just my theories...

Peter
p.s. a few digital channels remain with limited basic service besides broadcast but very few

Post #7774 merged in.

How many people have to pay more than $60 in order to get the ESPN, DiscoverHD, INHD, INHD2 while seldom or never watching the other programs in the package?

Comcast now require u have to sign up digital classic in order to get those 4 HD channel for another $10, so basically u pay about $70 just for those 4 quality HD programs.

1. comcast: about $70 for 4 quality HD channels

2. DirecTV: about $55 for 6 quality HD channels

3. dish: About $42 for 5 quality HD channels, $47 for 15 quality HD channels (voom)

4. OTA: pay $0 for local HD channel only

U do the math, is there any reason why i should stay with comcast? I wish more people's dropping comcast would make them readjust their program package.

How many people have to pay more than $60 in order to get the ESPN, DiscoverHD, INHD, INHD2 while seldom or never watching the other programs in the package?

Comcast now require u have to sign up digital classic in order to get those 4 HD channel for another $10, so basically u pay about $70 just for those 4 quality HD programs.

1. comcast: about $70 for 4 quality HD channels

2. DirecTV: about $55 for 6 quality HD channels

3. dish: About $42 for 5 quality HD channels, $47 for 15 quality HD channels (voom)

4. OTA: pay $0 for local HD channel only

U do the math, is there any reason why i should stay with comcast? I wish more people's dropping comcast would make them readjust their program package.

Isn't there more HD signal compression on DirecTV and Dish? I agree, I think that Comcast is too expensive.

I was wondering the same thing regarding compression from sat. How is the HD content compared to comcast? Anyone please. Thanks.

So it looks like right now:

Grandfather customer = Motorola STB

CableCARD != Motorola STB

CableCARD customer != Grandfather customer

Hopefully this is temporary mistake. I do think ClearQAM customers are just relegated to HD locals and that won't change. I think (hopefully) existing CableCARD customers will become Grandfathered customer as things clear up.

I have a cablecard, and am still getting these HD channels after the
encryption change (INHD, INHD2, DISC HD, ESPN, HDSE...). So, I guess comcast
did send out the codes to my cablecard to decrypt these channels.
I did have the HD package before this change.

(It is also possible that the encryption did not happen in
my neighborhood, but I think that is unlikely because this was a sweeping
change that affected everybody. I live in Santa Clara.)

Was your cablecard being used to decrypt anything before this change? It is
possible that your cablecard was only receiving channels that are in the clear,
and comcast might not even have the correct info about your cablecard.

One thing you might want to try is note down all the numbers on your
cablecard menu screen, call comcast and give them these numbers, and ask
them to "hit" it.

Good Luck!
-jjsc

-jjsc

I have a cablecard, and am still getting these HD channels after the
encryption change (INHD, INHD2, DISC HD, ESPN, HDSE...). So, I guess comcast
did send out the codes to my cablecard to decrypt these channels.
I did have the HD package before this change.

<snip>
-jjsc

-jjsc

Thanks jjsc

Besides HD what other packages have you subscribed to - e.g.
-> Basic or Standard Cable
-> Digital Classic or Digital Plus or Digital "x", etc.

Peter

I wonder how long grandfathered customers have until Comcast eventually encrypts the INHD's/ESPNHD/DISC-HD channels for them? I mean, surely this isn't indefinite. It is inevitable that everyone gets screwed by them at some point. Ok, screwed isn't exactly correct. But the content providers are the ones who want encryption, so it'll happen.

Mikef5,

can u ask Mr. J what comcast upper level managers' thoughts will be about their HD package? It's not really encouraging people to signup HD, the bar is kinda high compared with other carriers, they not afraid of ending up losing revenue?

thx

So it looks like right now:

Grandfather customer = Motorola STB

CableCARD != Motorola STB

CableCARD customer != Grandfather customer

Hopefully this is temporary mistake. I do think ClearQAM customers are just relegated to HD locals and that won't change. I think (hopefully) existing CableCARD customers will become Grandfathered customer as things clear up.
This whole grandfathered thing seems pretty superfluous.

I think whether or not you get INHD1/2, Disc HD etc. is a function of what packages you had signed up for, rather than what hardware you have... It seems that you need Standard Cable plus a Digital level upgrade at the bare minimum..

Love to hear of anyone who is on Basic Cable plus a Digital level upgrade and getting these channels. That is what I asked about yesterday and was told it was not possible.

peter

Was your cablecard being used to decrypt anything before this change? It is
possible that your cablecard was only receiving channels that are in the clear,
and comcast might not even have the correct info about your cablecard.
You are responding to the wrong person. I was just summarizing the posts up to that point. There were posts about STBs which properly decrypted the HD channels and one post about CableCARD not decrypting. Now there is one post about CableCARD properly decrypting (yours), so it is looking like the earlier CableCARD post could be just what you suggested, and simply worked before because the channels were not encrypted.

Hello all, new to the forum, but had a question for other comcast customers in the bay area. Espn hd, discovery, theater, inhd1 and 2 were uncrypted and my lg tv with built in tuner was able to receiver these channels w/o cable card until this morning oct 13, 05. did comcast encrypt these channels for all?
Yes, they did. But we were told that current customers were to be grandfathered in to retain those channels. See this post below, and if you can make sense of it, let us know.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6344279#post6344279
San Francisco, CA - Comcast - AVS Forum

I wonder how long grandfathered customers have until Comcast eventually encrypts the INHD's/ESPNHD/DISC-HD channels for them? I mean, surely this isn't indefinite.
I think you are missing some of the posts. Comcast is *already* encrypting for everyone (at least everyone that has chimed in so far) Grandfathered means your device was given authorization to decrypt. Most likely existing plans are authorized to decrypt and they created a new package for new subscriptions which doesn't include authorization to decrypt those channels and that is what you get if you call in today.

I think whether or not you get INHD1/2, Disc HD etc. is a function of what packages you had signed up for, rather than what hardware you have... It seems that you need Standard Cable plus a Digital level upgrade at the bare minimum..
It is only a function of your hardware in the sense that CableCARD hardware may not have been set up with the same "packages" as STB hardware and due to some oversight on Comcast's end did not get migrated properly (or were not setup correctly in the first place) to function in grandfathered mode.

Isn't there more HD signal compression on DirecTV and Dish? I agree, I think that Comcast is too expensive.
Based on past posts, I think going through STBs they are about the same (because the STBs Comcast uses have limited output resolution) but if you use CableCARD/QAM tuners, Comcast wins (on PQ) because their broadcast is virtually pass through from the networks (thus higher resolution) whereas satellites reformat the signal. The other point brought up in the past is your display may not be able to tell the difference, but with more true 1080p displays coming out, that will change over time.

Well, Comast came this morning and reset the cablecard so that the INHD etc. channels now show up for me and i only have the standard package. Unfortunately the HD stuttering is still a problem. They blaim this on the cable line that is running through the house. saying it is too old. I guess that is possible but it sucks because i have no way of replacing it. The homeowners assoc. does not want wires outside the house and running a new cable would be impossible. But regarding the channels, they now work with my cablecard.

This whole grandfathered thing seems pretty superfluous.

I think whether or not you get INHD1/2, Disc HD etc. is a function of what packages you had signed up for, rather than what hardware you have... It seems that you need Standard Cable plus a Digital level upgrade at the bare minimum..

Love to hear of anyone who is on Basic Cable plus a Digital level upgrade and getting these channels. That is what I asked about yesterday and was told it was not possible.

peter

plumeria, i sent you a PM earlier this morning responding to your query previously.

deathspared, good for you. at least then we are back to some form of consistency with the original info from Mr.J. if you have a cablecard or STB from before this week, you are grandfathered in. QAM tuners , which were never "registered" or known about by Comcast, did not get grandfathered in.

COMCAST DVR MOTOROLA 6412 PHASE 3 BOX IS ABSOLUTELY INCREDIBLE!

I finally picked one up today and hooked it up with a HDMI cable to my pannasonic plasma. The box fixes ALL, yes ALL picture quality and sound quality issues I previously had. The output is no longer gray and fuzzy, but instead even more vibrant and balanced than the internal QAM tuner my TV has. As if that wasn't enough, they made the internal analog decoder REALLY good. In fact, plugging cable directly into the TV is no longer better but in fact signifigently worse than using the cable box. That doesn't even make sense! It must be an absolutely top notch MPEG encoder and scaler. I seriously can't believe how good this thing is. speechless.

Sorry, I am a complete NOOB, but does all this discussion mean that if you subscribe to comcast, you should not bother getting a tv with an internal tuner?

Can someone help me? I have limited basic and i went to the local comcast center to add the HD package. they were all out of the regular HD boxes and gave me a DVR one.. When I got home i plugged everything in and called to activate it. To my suprise, The DVR option works as well i have espn HD and Discovery HD. I live in Hayward and on the guide it doesn't show any INHd. is it the service package or is it that hayward doesn't offer those chanels? I don't want to call comcast because i don't want them to take anything back. I think it's a deal. $13 dollars for the basic and $5 dollars for HD pacage. I am just confused why i get ESPN HD and DIcovery HD but not INHD1/2

There're two kinds of internal tuner for HD, ATSC is for OTA, QAM is for cable, so for comcast now, the QAM tuner is not very useful since the u can only tune the local HD channel, all ESPN Discover, INHD1/2 will not be tuned.

Buy a HD with ATSC at least.

hope that helps.


Sorry, I am a complete NOOB, but does all this discussion mean that if you subscribe to comcast, you should not bother getting a tv with an internal tuner?

Can someone help me? I have limited basic and i went to the local comcast center to add the HD package. they were all out of the regular HD boxes and gave me a DVR one.. When I got home i plugged everything in and called to activate it. To my suprise, The DVR option works as well i have espn HD and Discovery HD. I live in Hayward and on the guide it doesn't show any INHd. is it the service package or is it that hayward doesn't offer those chanels? I don't want to call comcast because i don't want them to take anything back. I think it's a deal. $13 dollars for the basic and $5 dollars for HD pacage. I am just confused why i get ESPN HD and DIcovery HD but not INHD1/2

Sometimes channels work for a while and then eventually stop working ... consider it a demo.

Can someone help me? I have limited basic and i went to the local comcast center to add the HD package. they were all out of the regular HD boxes and gave me a DVR one.. When I got home i plugged everything in and called to activate it. To my suprise, The DVR option works as well i have espn HD and Discovery HD. I live in Hayward and on the guide it doesn't show any INHd. is it the service package or is it that hayward doesn't offer those chanels? I don't want to call comcast because i don't want them to take anything back. I think it's a deal. $13 dollars for the basic and $5 dollars for HD pacage. I am just confused why i get ESPN HD and DIcovery HD but not INHD1/2

uc35

Hayward is a 550Mhz comcast area. Most of the 550Mhz area no not currently get INHD/INHD2. Browse through this thread, you will see lots of mentions of 550MHz systems lacking these channels.

Kevin

There're two kinds of internal tuner for HD, ATSC is for OTA, QAM is for cable, so for comcast now, the QAM tuner is not very useful since the u can only tune the local HD channel, all ESPN Discover, INHD1/2 will not be tuned.

Buy a HD with ATSC at least.

hope that helps.
Thanks. Unfortunately, the panasonic plasmas I'm looking at either come with all tuners or none. Oh well ...

I also live in a 550Mhz area specifically Hayward/San Lorenzo. Does anyone know what the plan is to expand the system with more HD channels along with VOD?

I thought that after the QAM conversion we would surely get some additional SD and HD channels instead we got radio stations. If anyone has any insights into this I’d love to hear from you.

With Comcast's move yesterday to encrypt ESPN, ... HD channel. They not only make 3rd party QAM tuner almost a waste, it also makes record HD programs with a PC impossible (some people may have luck recording from their STB firewire port ?). And there is still no sign of TNT HD. I am done with them.

If you look at their web site and click on their HDTV for $5 link, it still says you can get all local+ESPN, inHD,... does this really mean one does not need any digital tier subscription to get these additional HD channels ?

and they continue to make ridiculous claim about one needs their HD box in order to watch any HD channels, which is misleading to say the least.

Sorry, I am a complete NOOB, but does all this discussion mean that if you subscribe to comcast, you should not bother getting a tv with an internal tuner?

I have basic cable ($12 per mo!) and I get about 30 channels using a Samsung DLP with a built-in HD tuner. I'd say about 5 channels or so are HD, and I now get sub-channels I never got before (i.e. 9, 9-1 (HD), 9-2, 9-3, etc) and each PBS channel has different content.... it's as if I just got a better cable plan!

My Mitsubishi CRT projection (non-HD) and my Toshiba DLP tuner did was not able to tune all these channels.... I think tvs without a HD tuner need a set top box.

With Comcast's move yesterday to encrypt ESPN, ... HD channel. They not only make 3rd party QAM tuner almost a waste, it also makes record HD programs with a PC impossible (some people may have luck recording from their STB firewire port ?). And there is still no sign of TNT HD. I am done with them.

If you look at their web site and click on their HDTV for $5 link, it still says you can get all local+ESPN, inHD,... does this really mean one does not need any digital tier subscription to get these additional HD channels ?

and they continue to make ridiculous claim about one needs their HD box in order to watch any HD channels, which is misleading to say the least.

I e-mailed Comcast about what channels are provided with the $5 HDTV service.
This was their response:

Thank you for contacting Comcast Cable.

702 KTVU (Fox)
703 KNTV (NBC)
704 KRON (IND)
705 KPIX (CBS)
707 KGO (ABC)
709 KQED (PBS)
719 INHD - 1
720 INHD - 2
720 FSNBA (Check Local Listings for times) 722 Discovery-HD
723 ESPN - HD *
725 NFL Network HD **
730 HBO - HD ***
732 Cinemax - HD ***
734 Starz! - HD ***
736 Showtime - HD ***

* Subscription to Standard package required
** Subscription to Digital Classic required
*** Subscription to Premium package required

I e-mailed Comcast about what channels are provided with the $5 HDTV service.
This was their response:

Thank you for contacting Comcast Cable.

702 KTVU (Fox)
703 KNTV (NBC)
704 KRON (IND)
705 KPIX (CBS)
707 KGO (ABC)
709 KQED (PBS)
719 INHD - 1
720 INHD - 2
720 FSNBA (Check Local Listings for times) 722 Discovery-HD
723 ESPN - HD *
725 NFL Network HD **
730 HBO - HD ***
732 Cinemax - HD ***
734 Starz! - HD ***
736 Showtime - HD ***

* Subscription to Standard package required
** Subscription to Digital Classic required
*** Subscription to Premium package required

Can you clarify what $5 HDTV service is being referred to here? Are you sure they are not just saying you need a HD converter to receive these channels?

Comcast does not have an HDTV "service" or package as far as I know.

I e-mailed Comcast about what channels are provided with the $5 HDTV service. This was their response: ...

Thanks. This does clarify things.

Can you clarify what $5 HDTV service is being referred to here? Are you sure they are not just saying you need a HD converter to receive these channels?

Comcast does not have an HDTV "service" or package as far as I know.

I specifically asked, "What channels are included in the $5 HDTV package?"
However, those asterisks seem to imply that having Limited Basic Cable along with a HD STB (and hopefully a CableCARD) should allow you to receive INHD, INHD2, and Discovery HD Theater. Of course, maybe their CSRs are just as confused as we are.

I specifically asked, "What channels are included in the $5 HDTV package?"
However, those asterisks seem to imply that having Limited Basic Cable along a HD STB (and hopefully a CableCARD) should allow you to receive INHD, INHD2, and Discovery HD Theater. Of course, maybe their CSRs are just as confused as we are.
Totally different from what my CSR told me yesterday :(

I asked him a different question however - "What is the minimum cost for me to receive INHD1, INHD2 and Discovery HD? I have a HDTV already and don't want a DVR". That was where the info in one of my previous posts came from (>$60)

Peter
p.s. maybe I'll go to the Comcast center in Fremont and ask to speak to someone who might know what s/he is talking about

Thanks jjsc

Besides HD what other packages have you subscribed to - e.g.
-> Basic or Standard Cable
-> Digital Classic or Digital Plus or Digital "x", etc.

Peter

I just looked at my bill. I have:

Limited Basic cable $12.41
Two asian channels $24.99 (these happen to be digital channels, but I don't have
any other digital package)
HDTV $5.00

-jjsc

Comcast just makes their package so complicated that even their own people get confused.

Just called dishnetwork and they told me i can order the HD package only with $9+$5 service fee (yes, total $15), but i need to buy my own equipment which is a dish811 HD receiver + dish atenna, $449 installation all included.

Is there any people doing this? i mean it's not a bad deal at all, with those trash package u never watch, u'll pay more than $600 a year, i'm definitely interested, they also have the DVR receiver if u wanna do recording.

That's surely a good choice, any comment?

bxz :rolleyes:



Totally different from what my CSR told me yesterday :(

I asked him a different question however - "What is the minimum cost for me to receive INHD1, INHD2 and Discovery HD? I have a HDTV already and don't want a DVR". That was where the info in one of my previous posts came from (>$60)

Peter
p.s. maybe I'll go to the Comcast center in Fremont and ask to speak to someone who might know what s/he is talking about

I e-mailed Comcast about what channels are provided with the $5 HDTV service.
This was their response:

Thank you for contacting Comcast Cable.

702 KTVU (Fox)
703 KNTV (NBC)
704 KRON (IND)
705 KPIX (CBS)
707 KGO (ABC)
709 KQED (PBS)
719 INHD - 1
720 INHD - 2
720 FSNBA (Check Local Listings for times)
722 Discovery-HD
723 ESPN - HD *
725 NFL Network HD **
730 HBO - HD ***
732 Cinemax - HD ***
734 Starz! - HD ***
736 Showtime - HD ***

* Subscription to Standard package required
** Subscription to Digital Classic required
*** Subscription to Premium package required

This is pretty much correct. It does not mention that certain areas do not get all of the channels, though. It does say that ESPN is a "standard" cable channel (as opposed to "basic" cable which is the bare-minimum level) and requires the proper subscription, so I don't think anyone should be surprised if they start encrypting it.

(It also doesn't mention that 709 KQED is only on-air after 8pm or that 725 NFL Network is only on for about 2 hours, 2 days a week, only during football season..)

Comcast just makes their package so complicated that even their own people get confused.

Just called dishnetwork and they told me i can order the HD package only with $9+$5 service fee (yes, total $15), but i need to buy my own equipment which is a dish811 HD receiver + dish atenna, $449 installation all included.

Is there any people doing this? i mean it's not a bad deal at all, with those trash package u never watch, u'll pay more than $600 a year, i'm definitely interested, they also have the DVR receiver if u wanna do recording.

That's surely a good choice, any comment?

bxz :rolleyes:You can undoubtedly find an 811, Dish, and LNB on eBay for far far less. Also, bear in mind that the Voom channels are an additional $5, so you're looking at $20 total. Plus, the 811 is a big heap of steaming dogcrap. They will be releasing a new improved MPEG4 version called the 411 very soon. You'd have to buy that one if you'll want to receive the new MPEG4 HD signals.

If you want their HD DVR, it's $700 to purchase, and will be replaced shortly with an MPEG4 version, as well. They've also just introduced a new set of bugs into it with their latest firmware upgrade.

That sounds even better, but will dish let u order the HD package if u don't buy equipment from them?

You can undoubtedly find an 811, Dish, and LNB on eBay for far far less. Also, bear in mind that the Voom channels are an additional $5, so you're looking at $20 total. Plus, the 811 is a big heap of steaming dogcrap. They will be releasing a new improved MPEG4 version called the 411 very soon. You'd have to buy that one if you'll want to receive the new MPEG4 HD signals.

If you want their HD DVR, it's $700 to purchase, and will be replaced shortly with an MPEG4 version, as well. They've also just introduced a new set of bugs into it with their latest firmware upgrade.

That sounds even better, but will dish let u order the HD package if u don't buy equipment from them?

Sure you can. Keep in mind that you won't be getting the locals in HD from Dish, you need an antenna for that. That may change when they go to their MPEG 4 scheme.

yes, i know, i can use my rabbit ear receive more than 20 digital channels, including all major stations, even more than comcast digital channel. The thing is that ever after u watched HD, nothing is attractive anymore, even SD.



Sure you can. Keep in mind that you won't be getting the locals in HD from Dish, you need an antenna for that. That may change when they go to their MPEG 4 scheme.

So the comcast person said they thought my problem with stuttering was with my cable in the house, but i am starting to believe it has to do with the cablecard. why, you ask? Because i can consistantly improve my picture on the problem station by turning of the tv and back on again...hmmmm. Would getting a different cablecard help or should i get a set top box? Do the cablecards have version numbers? Do i want a specific one? Thanks for your input.

zack

Sure you can. Keep in mind that you won't be getting the locals in HD from Dish, you need an antenna for that. That may change when they go to their MPEG 4 scheme.
Apparently Dish has had network HD DNS type feeds of the four major nets in test mode for a couple of weeks on sat-129. I have not seen anything else on it lately, but if they were testing them it stands to reason they will probably start to offer them. The SF market with 3 out of the 4 majors being owned-and-operated it's conceivable that a Dish customer could have ABC, CBS and NBC in HD from LA, just like DirecTV has now. It would be a natural competitive response to the rollout of HD locals from DirecTV.

The DirecTV HD LiL rollout in a month or so and a Dish HD-DNS alternative in the very near future will put the heat on Comcast to bolster their HD lineup...one would hope anyway, as long as HSI and VOD don't continue to be the corporate focus and pushing HD to sideline.

So the comcast person said they thought my problem with stuttering was with my cable in the house, but i am starting to believe it has to do with the cablecard. why, you ask? Because i can consistantly improve my picture on the problem station by turning of the tv and back on again...hmmmm. Would getting a different cablecard help or should i get a set top box? Do the cablecards have version numbers? Do i want a specific one? Thanks for your input.

zack
Do you have any splitters in the line that feeds the CC? Is it a direct line from the cable drop?

In your previous post you said Comcast blamed the wiring at your residence..did they test the signal strength and then come to that conclusion?

You mentioned Homeowners Assoc, how are the rest of the buildings wired? Does anyone else have Comcast cable? Are they having problems?

I live in Fremont and I get ridiculous program interruption during shows like Lost, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, etc.

I recorded the last Lost episode and tried to watch it later but it is UNWATCHABLE. Every 5-10 seconds the sound cuts out for a second or two, and sometimes the picture breaks up (colored blocks appear on the screen, picture freezes, etc.). There are acceptable periods when the sound won't disappear for 3-4-5 minutes, then the next 3 minutes it would cut out every other second. This is unacceptable and extremely frustrating!

Now that I think about it, it seems like this happens only on ABC (707). I watched an entire episode of Monster Garage on Discovery HD today without interruption. Or could it be related to the time of the show?

I read the last 4-5 pages and I didn't see any mention of poor signal quality. Sorry if this topic has been covered on previous pages, it's too much to sift through.

I'm also not getting KRON-HD. It shows up as a channel but I get "This channel should be available shortly". It's been like that ever since I got the HD DVR box a month ago

I have the Motorola 6412 Dual Tuner HD DVR. It is connected by component cable to my Sony KD-34XBR960, and via optic fiber to my Yamaha receiver.

It could be the ABC source or it could be Comcast. If it happens on many channels then it is probably Comcast. I had similar symptoms a couple of months back and had the hardest time convincing Comcast it was their problem. It turns out they left some test signal generation equipment running on the wrong frequencies and it was generating bursts of data every few minutes. These bursts spiked the error levels. I cut and pasted procedure to check the errors for a channel. There should be zero errors. If you see bursts of errors corresponding with your audio problems, probably it is Comcast (or local in-home wiring) issue. If there are no errors, then it is probably ABC related.

BTW they also insisted to me that it is normal to have "recoverable" errors, especially with QAM256. While that may be true when testing using real equipment, it is *not* true using my DCT-5100 status screen. I've had HD since the beginning, over a year now, and when things are working correct, there should be *no* errors, recoverable or unrecoverable.

On my DCT-5100, to see the error levels, use this sequence (probably the same for other Comcast boxes too)
1) tune to channel with problem
2) power off
3) immediately after power off, press "OK", if you wait too long it won't go into service menu
4) navigate to item "D04 Inband Status", Press "OK"

You should see the error #s at the bottom.

Hey guys,

I have a question for all of you. I've had the Motorola dual tuner HD DVR (NOT the new Phase III one) for about 2 months and had no trouble using it with my projector and component out. I picked up the box while I was living in Fremont, and then moved to Newark.

Last night I received a new Soyo 37" LCD TV and connected it to the cable box via DVI.

When I turned on the cable box, I'd see a picture via DVI for a few seconds, then the picture would vanish. The TV still showed that it was receiving a 1280 X 720 input, but there is nothing on the screen.

Everytime I turn off the cable box, and turn it back on, I get to see 5-10 seconds of the awesome DVI picture, and then the screen goes black.

If I use component video I have no problems, but I'd really like to use DVI.

Anyone know what's going on? Thanks!

Hey guys,

I have a question for all of you. I've had the Motorola dual tuner HD DVR (NOT the new Phase III one) for about 2 months and had no trouble using it with my projector and component out. I picked up the box while I was living in Fremont, and then moved to Newark.

Last night I received a new Soyo 37" LCD TV and connected it to the cable box via DVI.

When I turned on the cable box, I'd see a picture via DVI for a few seconds, then the picture would vanish. The TV still showed that it was receiving a 1280 X 720 input, but there is nothing on the screen.

Everytime I turn off the cable box, and turn it back on, I get to see 5-10 seconds of the awesome DVI picture, and then the screen goes black.

If I use component video I have no problems, but I'd really like to use DVI.

Anyone know what's going on? Thanks!
It could be a sync problem, try this:
Turn off both DVR and TV, unplug DVR. Connect the DVI cable and power on DVR and wait until it completes boot up, a few minutes. Power on the TV. If that works, never power off the DVR.

If you still have problems, maybe your TV is not HDCP compliant and you're SOL as far as DVI goes.

If you still have problems, maybe your TV is not HDCP compliant and you're SOL as far as DVI goes.

Thanks for the tip. I will try it.

If my new TV is not HDCP compliant, does that mean if I get the new Phase III box, and try using HDMI (with an HDMI to DVI cable), it won't work either?

Thanks.

Thanks for the tip. I will try it.

If my new TV is not HDCP compliant, does that mean if I get the new Phase III box, and try using HDMI (with an HDMI to DVI cable), it won't work either?

Thanks.
Yep.

I had the exact same problem (between the 6412 and an HDCP-compliant TV). The problem turned out to be a faulty DVI-HDMI cable. I suggest that you "rent" another cable from Fry's and try it out.

I had the exact same problem (between the 6412 and an HDCP-compliant TV). The problem turned out to be a faulty DVI-HDMI cable. I suggest that you "rent" another cable from Fry's and try it out.

Ditto on this suggestion. I 've been through several faulty HDMI cables. I think that they s**k. I've had problems with Pacific Cables and Ram cables (the RAM cable worked out of the box, but suddenly went faulty one day after a few months). So far the Griffen cables are OK.

I live in Fremont and I get ridiculous program interruption during shows like Lost, Desperate Housewives, Grey's Anatomy, etc.

I recorded the last Lost episode and tried to watch it later but it is UNWATCHABLE. Every 5-10 seconds the sound cuts out for a second or two, and sometimes the picture breaks up (colored blocks appear on the screen, picture freezes, etc.). There are acceptable periods when the sound won't disappear for 3-4-5 minutes, then the next 3 minutes it would cut out every other second. This is unacceptable and extremely frustrating!

Now that I think about it, it seems like this happens only on ABC (707). I watched an entire episode of Monster Garage on Discovery HD today without interruption. Or could it be related to the time of the show?

I read the last 4-5 pages and I didn't see any mention of poor signal quality. Sorry if this topic has been covered on previous pages, it's too much to sift through.

I'm also not getting KRON-HD. It shows up as a channel but I get "This channel should be available shortly". It's been like that ever since I got the HD DVR box a month ago

I have the Motorola 6412 Dual Tuner HD DVR. It is connected by component cable to my Sony KD-34XBR960, and via optic fiber to my Yamaha receiver.

While in the screen that sfhub gave you the instructions for, also check the SNR and AGC readings. Your problem sounds suspiciously like a signal strength issue. I had a very similar issue when I split a feed off the main line to feed a CableCARD and the recordings I had made where as you have described. Just a few dbs can make a difference, plus KRON may be sharing the same QAM frequency as KGO on your system which might explain why you're getting the available shortly screen.

It's possible to have a problem on just one or two channels while everything else works fine if the incoming signal is marginal.

One other thing, the ABC stuff, is it all the stuff you recorded(on tuner 2 presumably) that is bad? Or, is it bad when viewing live on tuner 1 as well?

While in the screen that sfhub gave you the instructions for, also check the SNR and AGC readings. Your problem sounds suspiciously like a signal strength issue. I had a very similar issue when I split a feed off the main line to feed a CableCARD and the recordings I had made where as you have described. Just a few dbs can make a difference, plus KRON may be sharing the same QAM frequency as KGO on your system which might explain why you're getting the available shortly screen.

It's possible to have a problem on just one or two channels while everything else works fine if the incoming signal is marginal.

One other thing, the ABC stuff, is it all the stuff you recorded(on tuner 2 presumably) that is bad? Or, is it bad when viewing live on tuner 1 as well?

I am having the same problem with dropping audio, for the three statistics ERR, SNR, and AGC. What values represent a good range (I have also split my signal and added an amp).

Peter,

i just finsihed adding the HDTV package with comcast, i think some of their reps are not knowing their job too well.

I'm not grandfathered, only limit basic, if i add $9.95 digital classic and $5 HDTV package, i will be able to receive INHD1/2 and DiscoveryHD, no ESPNHD, for ESPNHD, u need to standard package which drives the whole cost up.

I'm fine with those 3 HD channel cos i don't care ESPN that much :-)

So that's within a reasonable price $15 more for those 3 channels, i'm in.

call them again and good luck to all those who don't wanna extra crappy channels.

bxz



I just talked to Comcast and this is not an option. I was told that in order to get INHD1, INHD2 and Discovery HD I would need the standard cable package ($45) and then add Digital Classic ($10) on top of that plus get HD ($5), so the cost would be over $60 :-(

The guy I talked to said you could add Digital Classic to limited basic ($12), but you would NOT get INHD1, INHD2 or Discovery HD - even if you got the HD option.

Bummer...

peter

One other thing, the ABC stuff, is it all the stuff you recorded(on tuner 2 presumably) that is bad? Or, is it bad when viewing live on tuner 1 as well?
It's not the DVR. I time shift in the beginning to avoid not being able to change the channel when the recording starts. Right before the recording starts I go to a different channel, then when the red LED comes on I go back to 707. Effectively IU am using both tuners, and both of them exhibit the same problem in the exact same time. How many MPEG decoders are there in this box? I'm assuming it's all redundant - 2 of everything.

It happens during the live broadcast and then when I play the recording it's in the same spots. I have a friend who lives in Hayward and he has a similar problem but it's his DVR because the show is fine when he watches it live, but it breaks up during playback and never twice on the same spot.

What do you suspect that whoever is in charge of putting together these packages either a) does not even watch televison or b) if they do does not own an HD set. This person is apparently clueless to what happens once one opens an HD set and how quickly they can no longer stand to watch SD. They need an entire different program for HD owners.

Well, I did the "Power Off, press OK" procedure and I get the following results regardless of what channel I was tuned on before I powered off.

TUNER 1

SNR: 33.6 ~ 34.6 dB (GOOD)
AGC: 54% (GOOD)
UNCORRECTABLE: 0 ~ 9
CORRECTABLE: 442 ~ 2242

TUNER 2

SNR: 30.2 ~ 30.6 dB (FAIR)
AGC: 46% (GOOD)
UNCORRECTABLE: 0 ~ 12
CORRECTABLE: 1041 ~ 3598


The errors go up simultaneously on both tuners but TUNER 2 usually gets twice as many as TUNER 1.

The cable goes from the wall directly to the STB - no splitting, no nothing.

I am having the same problem with dropping audio, for the three statistics ERR, SNR, and AGC. What values represent a good range (I have also split my signal and added an amp).
See STANGER's post of his numbers and my response.

Well, I did the "Power Off, press OK" procedure and I get the following results regardless of what channel I was tuned on before I powered off.

TUNER 1

SNR: 33.6 ~ 34.6 dB (GOOD)
AGC: 54% (GOOD)
UNCORRECTABLE: 0 ~ 9
CORRECTABLE: 442 ~ 2242

TUNER 2

SNR: 30.2 ~ 30.6 dB (FAIR)
AGC: 46% (GOOD)
UNCORRECTABLE: 0 ~ 12
CORRECTABLE: 1041 ~ 3598


The errors go up simultaneously on both tuners but TUNER 2 usually gets twice as many as TUNER 1.

The cable goes from the wall directly to the STB - no splitting, no nothing.

The AGC and SNR numbers for Tuner 1 are good and acceptable for TUNER 2. It's a little odd that the AGC number is lower on TUNER 2 as it means the tuner isn't trying as hard to retain the signal as Tuner 1. There is usually a 3db difference(lower) on Tuner 2 with these boxes as it's essentially just split off from the feed inside the STB.

If Comcast said they have to replace the wiring then I would let them do it. What type of dwelling are you in and what specifically are the Homeowners Assoc objecting to?

If you can't get the wiring re-done try and see if Comcast will supply a line amp to boost the signal to see if that helps. I have to assume though that if they said the wiring is the problem, then it probably is.

You shouldn't have any Correctable or UNCorrectable errors, those readings should both be zero.

I think you got me mixed up. :) I live in an apartment complex. The wiring should be good. They re-did the whole complex a couple of years ago. I haven't called Comcast yet.

I find it puzzling too that the automatic gain control on tuner 2 is lower than on tuner 1. It should be higher to compensate for the lower S/N ratio.

I get the errors ALL the damn time. What should I do?

I think you got me mixed up. :)
Probably, I was born confused.. :D

I would call Comcast and stay on them until it's fixed. Being an apartment complex there is no doubt there is already some sort of line amplification being applied so adding another will probably not help.

If you don't get a satisfactory resolution through Comcast then you might want to bring the apartment complex owner into it as many of these systems are there through a financial arrangement between the owner and Comcast.

Does anyone know if we're REALLY going to get tonight's Sharks game on 720, or is this just another tease by the on-screen guide?

The Sharks were in HD on Wednesday night, so why not tonight?

The Sharks were in HD on Wednesday night, so why not tonight?

I didn't know about Wednsday. I was there in person! But thanks for the info.

for those using the motorola 6200, is there a RF out on the back of the unit, what kinda signal is that port carrying? it says "to TV/VCR" so i suppose it's carrying the decrypted RF signal? which if feeded to ur LCD with own QAM modulator, u will get all channels decrypted by the STB?

for those using the motorola 6200, is there a RF out on the back of the unit, what kinda signal is that port carrying? it says "to TV/VCR" so i suppose it's carrying the decrypted RF signal? which if feeded to ur LCD with own QAM modulator, u will get all channels decrypted by the STB?

You will get whatever channel the box is tuned to, modulated on channel 3 only.

You need a cable card set to accomplish what you are seeking.

Can anybody tell me why I can't record the Sharks game in HD on the DVR? Tried to do it on Wednesday and tonight and all I got both times were a blank, black screen. Is this a Motorola issue or a Comcast issue - or both?

Does anyone know if we're REALLY going to get tonight's Sharks game on 720, or is this just another tease by the on-screen guide?
I tried to record the Sharks Wednesday night game on 720 and nothing recorded....not sure why.

Tonight I tried to record the Sharks vs. Blackhawks game on 720 and it recorded that timeslot but when I try and play it back the screen is completely blank. Comcast said that because I live in San Jose I cannot record FSNHD 720 Sharks games due to copyright restrictions. Is this true? Anyone else have the same problem?

This seems crazy as I can record the Standard Def broadcast on DTV Channel 654.

I already have e-mails into the Sharks and FSN Bay Area for clarification on this but I cannot imagine why they would restrict recording the HD broadcast of the Sharks in San Jose.

Comcast said that because I live in San Jose I cannot record FSNHD 720 Sharks games due to copyright restrictions. Is this true? Anyone else have the same problem?


:mad: :mad: :mad:
Please post any information you find. The only reason I switched to Comcast was to get the Sharks in HD. I usually don't get home from work until well after the puck drops so if I can't record it then Comcast can count me out. The regular FSN looks like crud due to being analog. I might as well go back to satellite...at least it's digital.

I'm in the same boat as you and only added Comcast so I could record the Sharks in HD so I could watch them when I got home. I recommend that you and anyone else that has the same problem e-mail the Sharks using their contact information on their web-site and let them know that this is crap. They are only broadcasting 25 games in HD and now I've already missed 2 of them......gotta love hockey in High Def!!

Friends, you've been owned by the DMCA.

I can only imagine how we'd all feel when the broadcast flag BS comes into play and ALL hardware has to enforce it.

Can anybody tell me why I can't record the Sharks game in HD on the DVR? Tried to do it on Wednesday and tonight and all I got both times were a blank, black screen. Is this a Motorola issue or a Comcast issue - or both?I don't think the problem with recording the Sharks game has anything to do with copyright restrictions.

It's probably a technical issue. I don't have a DVR but I do have a 6200. Last night I tuned into chan 720 to watch the game a little before 7:30 and a movie was showing. Shortly after 7:30 the screen went blank. I waited a few mins and the screen was still blank so I tried changing chans to 719 and went back to 720 and there was the Sharks game. This has happened before when they switch over to a Giants game. Somehow when they switch over, the box loses sync or something and you need to change channels to get video. I can see where the DVR, by not changing channels, would record only blank video.

Don't know what we can do to get Comcast to fix this, I mentioned this months earlier in this thread and it's still happening. Its' not such a problem if you're watching live, but with the DVR it's a disaster. But then again, if I was watching the movie when they cut it off before the end to show the Sharks game, I'd be pissed.


Why the hell don't they use chan 725 HDSE for FSNBA games? Is it b/w limitation? They show NFL on HDSE and InHD2 regular programming at the same time, so it doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Caino
Can anybody tell me why I can't record the Sharks game in HD on the DVR? Tried to do it on Wednesday and tonight and all I got both times were a blank, black screen. Is this a Motorola issue or a Comcast issue - or both?

The workaround for me is to start the recording a few minutes late. This worked for the Giants games on FSNBA.

Friends, you've been owned by the DMCA.

I can only imagine how we'd all feel when the broadcast flag BS comes into play and ALL hardware has to enforce it.

I really doubt that Comcast is enforcing any copyright flags on INHD 1 or 2. If so then why can you record HBO-HD ??? The paranoid movie bean counters would surely want that enforced long before any old Sharks game. I think it is a problem with the program switching from the regular programing to the game. The motorola box is not a smart box and when a blank screen is shown for to long I think it believes there is no program so doesn't record it ( of course that is just my speculation, I have been known to be wrong... :o ) . One of the reasons that they show the games on INHD is that not all areas get the HDSE channel, channel 725, like the SaraMilgatos areas, of course not all areas get INHD ( Santa Rosa for example ) but the majority of areas do get INHD. Also, Comcast, FSN and INHD all are interrelated in some kind of business agreement that allows them to use the resources of each other.

Laters,
Mikef5

of course not all areas get INHD ( Santa Rosa for example ) but the majority of areas do get INHD.
Yeah, up here, in Comcast's Historical Monument to cableTV we still have more analog channels than digital ones. :rolleyes: :D

Hi,

I just upgraded to the digital classic service and wondering what kinda STB will be sent by comcast? is it the motorola 6200? just wanna make sure it has the 1394 port so that i can still record to my PC, otherwise i'd rather have the cablecard since i'm able to record the HD to my PC thru the Sharp LCD 1394 port.

I'm in milpitas.
thx

Hi,

I just upgraded to the digital classic service and wondering what kinda STB will be sent by comcast? is it the motorola 6200? just wanna make sure it has the 1394 port so that i can still record to my PC, otherwise i'd rather have the cablecard since i'm able to record the HD to my PC thru the Sharp LCD 1394 port.

I'm in milpitas.
thx

The 6200's have have been in production long enough where I'm guessing that's all they're dishing out. Unless of course you get the DVR in which you'll get the 6412 (Phase I, II, or III all with FW). You may want to call Comcast and have them put in your service appt. notes that you're requesting the 6200. The service techs grab the boxes they'll need at the beginning of each day so they should see your work order w/ notes before they head out.

I have a 6412. What's this recording to PC via firewire I see you guys talk about? Can someone point me to where this has been discussed?

Just a couple quick questions: I'm assuming I can use any video capture software. Do I need drivers for the STB though? And what is streamed through the 1394 port? The raw transport stream?

I have a 6412. What's this recording to PC via firewire I see you guys talk about? Can someone point me to where this has been discussed?

Just a couple quick questions: I'm assuming I can use any video capture software. Do I need drivers for the STB though? And what is streamed through the 1394 port? The raw transport stream?

Try this avsforum link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695
It is long but has alot of good info on recording from the 6412.

Laters,
Mikef5

Is KPIX having problems with HD? I have noticed very little HD content so far this weekend? Thanks.
CBS only does 3 NFL games a week in HD. And if I'm not mistaken, I think there is only one more Raider game this year to be done in HD unless KPIX does their own HD broadcast.

The Charger/Raider game is on KCBS-LA with DirecTV in SD, while the Patriot/Broncos game is in HD on KPIX.

What's odd is that I shouldn't be getting the Raider with my DirecTV feed, I think it should have been blacked-out...weird.

Try this avsforum link http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=403695
It is long but has alot of good info on recording from the 6412.

Laters,
Mikef5
Thanks for the link!

5TANGER,

can u copy the stuff your 6412 recorded out to ur PC and say burn to DVDR? is that the original HD stream or compressed stream?

Bxz

Thanks for the link!

The workaround for me is to start the recording a few minutes late. This worked for the Giants games on FSNBA.

Thanks for the tip. If this works, I'll be a happy camper. Cheers.

hi, i know this has been deliberated a bit on the flat panel forum, but i thought i'd check here since i'm most interested in what people are doing if they are using Comcast's STB HD tuner.

i had originally thought i couldn't see any real difference between 720p and 1080i, but on tonight's playoff game between the Angels and White Sox, i decided to a quick change to 720p (i had been using 1080i) and unless i'm mistaken, the 720p looks noticeably better, at least for this particular FOX broadcast. i see much more detail when they zoom in on a player's face. (this is all on from the perspective of having a 1366x768 32" Aquos using the non-DVR Motorola box from Comcast)

anyone else want to share a different/similar experience?

interestingly enough, i had heard that FOX and ABC broadcast at 720p while the others do 1080i. i have no clue what Comcast does with these signals...

anyway, i'd be curious to get people's thoughts and experiences.

thanks!

I don't think the problem with recording the Sharks game has anything to do with copyright restrictions.

It's probably a technical issue. I don't have a DVR but I do have a 6200. Last night I tuned into chan 720 to watch the game a little before 7:30 and a movie was showing. Shortly after 7:30 the screen went blank. I waited a few mins and the screen was still blank so I tried changing chans to 719 and went back to 720 and there was the Sharks game. This has happened before when they switch over to a Giants game. Somehow when they switch over, the box loses sync or something and you need to change channels to get video. I can see where the DVR, by not changing channels, would record only blank video.

Don't know what we can do to get Comcast to fix this, I mentioned this months earlier in this thread and it's still happening. Its' not such a problem if you're watching live, but with the DVR it's a disaster. But then again, if I was watching the movie when they cut it off before the end to show the Sharks game, I'd be pissed.

Why the hell don't they use chan 725 HDSE for FSNBA games? Is it b/w limitation? They show NFL on HDSE and InHD2 regular programming at the same time, so it doesn't make sense.


Now this makes complete sense and was the answer I was looking for. Thanks. Too bad the CS Reps at Comcast are not very helpful and don't even try to get a real answer. Had I know this I would have started the recording late.

5TANGER,

can u copy the stuff your 6412 recorded out to ur PC and say burn to DVDR? is that the original HD stream or compressed stream?

Bxz
I haven't tried recording yet, but I can answer your second question. It would be the original HD stream which is compressed in nature - all HDTV is MPEG2 compressed. The HD stream is not compressed any further when it is sent to the PC via FireWire. It is merely copied without alteration.

interestingly enough, i had heard that FOX and ABC broadcast at 720p while the others do 1080i. i have no clue what Comcast does with these signals...




the box converts everything to 1080.

the box converts everything to 1080.Not true for a 6200 at least. You can change the YPbPr output to 480i, 480p, 720p or 1080i. To do this, turn the box off and immediately press Menu.

The 6412 is the same, 480I, 480P, 720P, and 1080I

hey guys, i understand that the box can convert to whatever output you want. my question was: what are people choosing for that output. after posting last night, i continued to play around and i _think_ 720p was superior to 1080i all around, but the differences ranged from neglibible to quite significant.

hey guys, i understand that the box can convert to whatever output you want. my question was: what are people choosing for that output. after posting last night, i continued to play around and i _think_ 720p was superior to 1080i all around, but the differences ranged from neglibible to quite significant.It depends on your TV and what looks best to you. Some TVs are native 720p, 1080i or now even 1080p.

hiker -

so, what do you use and what do you own?

i had thought i couldn' see a difference, but for last night's baseball game, it was clear that 720p was preferred over 1080i on my "768p" Aquos set.

hey guys, i understand that the box can convert to whatever output you want. my question was: what are people choosing for that output. after posting last night, i continued to play around and i _think_ 720p was superior to 1080i all around, but the differences ranged from neglibible to quite significant.

I've got a 1080i native set in the living room and have the 6412 output at 1080i. I've got a 26" LCD, 720P native in the bedroom and have a 6412 set to 720P. Tried all the other combinations and it seems the best bet is to have your box output at your set's native res.

Peter,

i just finsihed adding the HDTV package with comcast, i think some of their reps are not knowing their job too well.

I'm not grandfathered, only limit basic, if i add $9.95 digital classic and $5 HDTV package, i will be able to receive INHD1/2 and DiscoveryHD, no ESPNHD, for ESPNHD, u need to standard package which drives the whole cost up.

I'm fine with those 3 HD channel cos i don't care ESPN that much :-)

So that's within a reasonable price $15 more for those 3 channels, i'm in.

call them again and good luck to all those who don't wanna extra crappy channels.

bxz
Thanks Bxz

I assumed you just called the Comcast 800 number and asked to upgrade to the service that allows you INHD1, INHD2 and DiscoveryHD? Or did you just ask for digital classic plus HD upgrade without reference to these channels?

I'll keep trying I guess - at least I have some hope ;-)

peter

Are there any areas of the city of San Francisco which are only 550 mhz? My uncle is thinking about getting an HD set and I want to be able to tell him which channels he will be getting in HD.

I've just recently come back to this thread after being off several months, and I'm very interested in COMCAST's new hd dvr box, the 6412 Phase III. I have the 6412, and have been quite satisfied with it. Are there major reasons to switch to the Phase III? (I do have a tv with HDMI input, and thus can use the HDMI-HDMI connection.)

I've got a 1080i native set in the living room and have the 6412 output at 1080i. I've got a 26" LCD, 720P native in the bedroom and have a 6412 set to 720P. Tried all the other combinations and it seems the best bet is to have your box output at your set's native res.

thanks, that's the sort of info i'd hope people would post. is your 26" really 720p or is it 768p?

thanks, that's the sort of info i'd hope people would post. is your 26" really 720p or is it 768p?

It's 1366 x 768

thanks again prickle. mine is 1366x768 too. i guess it's better to upsample to 768 than to downsample from 1080i. i was totally struck by how different they looked (1080i vs 720p) last night on FOX. i had previously (incorrectly) thought they both looked good, but perhaps it took a stellar signal from FOX last night to show that there really is a difference.

I've just recently come back to this thread after being off several months, and I'm very interested in COMCAST's new hd dvr box, the 6412 Phase III. I have the 6412, and have been quite satisfied with it. Are there major reasons to switch to the Phase III? (I do have a tv with HDMI input, and thus can use the HDMI-HDMI connection.)



You would be NUTS not to get it. We're talking night and day picture quality improvement on HDMI. Also, the analog channels no longer look like crap.

You would be NUTS not to get it. We're talking night and day picture quality improvement on HDMI. Also, the analog channels no longer look like crap.

Thanks--will do!

You would be NUTS not to get it. We're talking night and day picture quality improvement on HDMI. Also, the analog channels no longer look like crap.
"day and night" ? Can you give some objective comparisons about how much better HDMI is over the DVI and component? :)

I think there were problems with some people using DVI<->HDMI converter dongles. Technically they are exactly the same, only the pinout is different (plus the addtion of digital audio with HDMI).

As far as 720 vs 1080, yes it's best to set it closest to your set's native output. I have a 1080i HiScan CRT and everything looks much, MUCH better at 1080i - but of course it can't actually show 720p, it's more like 540p (every other scan line of the native 1080 tube).

FOX always looks like crap though. If you want a real comparison try ESPN-HD (720) vs INHD (1080), or CBS if you don't get INHD.

thanks Walk.

i agree, in general, FOX doesn't look all that good compared with INHD1/2 or ESPN-HD (which looks incredible for sportscenter). nevertheless, i was very impressed with the picture quality of last night's game over 720p. it looks like there were no compression artifacts and the picture was clean down to pixel level with me standing a foot from the screen.

i wish all channels were consistenly good like INHD and DiscoverHD,but i'm guessing its a bandwidth bottleneck somewhere.

Why is this hardware so prone to breakdowns??

My third box is now acting up and will not turn on or stay on the channel when I do a power cord pull and replug.

Are any of you also experiencing a high frequency of these boxes dying on you??

This is my third one and it is DEAD. Theres nothing really to watch on Comcast HD for me except Discovery Channel HD. It is almost like not worth it anymore. I havent had the need to swap the box for 2 weeks now. Thats how much I dont need it.

You would be NUTS not to get it. We're talking night and day picture quality improvement on HDMI. Also, the analog channels no longer look like crap.

Follow-up question: do HD channels on the 6412 III look as good as HD OTA? If so, I will forgo setting up an OTA antenna for getting local HD channels.

Also, if the SD channels via the 6412 III look as good as SD straight into the TV, then I suppose one could forget about splitting the cable (sending one branch straight to the TV and one to the 6412). Agreed?

[QUOTE=Xaque]You would be NUTS not to get it. We're talking night and day picture quality improvement on HDMI. Also, the analog channels no longer look like crap.[/QUOTE

How do you know if you have one or not? I have one of the first 6412s they gave out in the bay area for my main set, and then I have one I got about a month ago for my secondary set.

Thx.

You can probably tell from my questions above that I'm in the process of changing some items in my HT (TV: Sammy hlp6163 --> Mits 73727; DVD player: Denon 2910 --> Pioneer 59avi; cable box: 6412 --> 6412 III), and have various questions I would appreciate the experience many of you already have. To summarize my questions:

1) Is there any point in using a antenna to get local HD channles OTA, or does the 6412 III bring them in just as well?

2) Is there any point in splitting the cable 'out of the wall', sending one branch directly to the TV and the other to the 6412 III, in order to get SD channels directly; or does the 6412 III do such a good job that this is not worth the trouble?

Thanks much for the benefit of your experience!

As far as I know the local channels look identical to what you can get over the air, Comcast doesn't re-compress them or anything (like satellites might do, to save bandwidth).

As far as analog channels there's a real good chance they will look "better" going directly to your TV, though I suppose it's possible they won't... depends on your TV probably. Plus you can use PIP that way, if your TV has PIP.. Note this is true for all the boxes, the analog tuner just isn't the greatest, but especially for the DVR boxes since they actually compress and store what you are watching (so you can pause "live" tv) so what you're watching is actually an mpeg-compressed stream, rather than the direct feed.

i've been to lazy to take my Aquos off the wall and wire in a RF cable to compare the signal, but maybe i'll try it out this coming weekend.

but FWIW, i think the non-DVR unit does an OK job with the analog stations. i find the analog stations quality is all over the map, so again, it must be a function of the original material (for instance, channel 6 (tv36) always looks lousy).

as i think was noted above, since i've had HD, i find myself watching the SD channels less and less and sticking to things in the 702-723 range of things. (then again, i only have limited basic, so i'm only missing out on a few stations by sticking to the HD feeds -- which BTW, look better than the SD channels, even if the broadcast isn't really in HD)

Why is this hardware so prone to breakdowns??

My third box is now acting up and will not turn on or stay on the channel when I do a power cord pull and replug.

Are any of you also experiencing a high frequency of these boxes dying on you??

This is my third one and it is DEAD. Theres nothing really to watch on Comcast HD for me except Discovery Channel HD. It is almost like not worth it anymore. I havent had the need to swap the box for 2 weeks now. Thats how much I dont need it.

I had one of the first, if not the first 6412s installed in Mountain View sometime early December 2004. It has never exhibited any of the problems I have read about on the various threads and has be totaly reliable. I have had a second unit for about a month and it also has been without any problems. Both are Phase II units. As soon as I can "flush" (view) the content on one of the two, I will exchange it for a Phase III unit.

web

As far as 720 vs 1080, yes it's best to set it closest to your set's native output. I have a 1080i HiScan CRT and everything looks much, MUCH better at 1080i - but of course it can't actually show 720p, it's more like 540p (every other scan line of the native 1080 tube).

I actually have a slightly different perspective on the "what should I set the STB output to" choice... I try to leave it at the native resolution of the channel(s) I know I'm going to watch. That way only one scaling has to occur, rather than two, for my set which is neither 720p nor 1080i ... it's 1368x768. This probably at least partially explains why Derek87 saw better results on FOX (720p native source) using 720p out instead of 1080i - if he has it at 1080i, the STB will be doing 720p->1080i conversion, then his set will do a further conversion 1080i->768p including deinterlacing.

Of course it's a pain to do this "all the time" - especially with the DVR box where you wouldn't want to turn it off while recording something - so I just choose based on the majority of programming I'm going to watch. With the majority of football I watch on Fox/ESPN/ABC, that means I run 720p mostly now. But when it's not time for sports, most of the stuff I watch is 1080i. I sure wish there were a way to change it 'on the fly'...

That being said, I would imagine the way to go for a 1080i-native CRT would be to use 1080i always if the STB's 720p->1080i conversion isn't significantly worse than the one in the CRT. That way you'd get native input for 1080i channels and you'd have to scale the 720p stuff anyway, so the STB can do it.

Poochie, good thoughts. you reached the conclusion i did after thinking about it last night. right now, i'm watching mostly Baseball playoffs, Lost, Alias, Prison Break, and ESPN over HD. the loss i experience of other stuff will probably be worth not having to muck around with the settings all the time.

i did, however, swap things around until my eyes got tired last night and convinced myself that 1080 is slightly better on INHD1/2 although the CBS and NBC feeds were poor enough that it didn't seem to make a difference last night.

anyway, i'm following Poochie, i'm going with 720p at least until the World Series is over. i'll have to pay attention to Alias and Lost this week to see if i find that they are improved in 720p. Lost has been pretty good so far, but i usually find Alias pretty low-def as far as HD channels go...maybe the 720p will be an improvement. [if it isn't clear, before Sunday, my box has always been set to 1080i]

I haven't been able to find an answer to a question I posed a few days ago (and COMCAST hardly knows what I'm talking about!). Namely, is it possible to have both a 6412 stb AND a cable card for the same TV? The cable card would presumably allow one to by-pass the hard drive of the 6412, which some have said would give better PQ, while the 6412 would still have the dvr capability (as well as viewing channels through it in the standard way). Does this make any sense? And finally, does COMCAST charge anything for getting a cable card if you already are paying for HD and a 6412?

I haven't been able to find an answer to a question I posed a few days ago (and COMCAST hardly knows what I'm talking about!). Namely, is it possible to have both a 6412 stb AND a cable card for the same TV? The cable card would presumably allow one to by-pass the hard drive of the 6412, which some have said would give better PQ, while the 6412 would still have the dvr capability (as well as viewing channels through it in the standard way). Does this make any sense? And finally, does COMCAST charge anything for getting a cable card if you already are paying for HD and a 6412?

I had planned to add a CableCard to my 6412 setup. I went to order the CableCard and was eventually transferred to the CableCard support group. I was told that it would be an additional $6.95 / mo. So I decided not to get it. I can already tune all of the SD channels with a direct cable feed and those are the channels where you see the biggest improvement on the internal tuners. The HD channels look roughly the same on the internal tuners as on the 6412 (except as of a few days ago, I can't tune INHD/INHD2). I would like to have the CableCard, but I was really not getting much for the added expense.

I had planned to add a CableCard to my 6412 setup. I went to order the CableCard and was eventually transferred to the CableCard support group. I was told that it would be an additional $6.95 / mo. So I decided not to get it. I can already tune all of the SD channels with a direct cable feed and those are the channels where you see the biggest improvement on the internal tuners. The HD channels look roughly the same on the internal tuners as on the 6412 (except as of a few days ago, I can't tune INHD/INHD2). I would like to have the CableCard, but I was really not getting much for the added expense.

If they are going to charge for it, then I'm sure I'm in agreement with you.

I had planned to add a CableCard to my 6412 setup. I went to order the CableCard and was eventually transferred to the CableCard support group. I was told that it would be an additional $6.95 / mo. So I decided not to get it. I can already tune all of the SD channels with a direct cable feed and those are the channels where you see the biggest improvement on the internal tuners. The HD channels look roughly the same on the internal tuners as on the 6412 (except as of a few days ago, I can't tune INHD/INHD2). I would like to have the CableCard, but I was really not getting much for the added expense.

Bill: Do you think the PQ is better for SD channels from the direct cable feed, or through the 6412? (I presume you split the cable 'out of the wall', sending one branch directly to the TV and one to the 6412, right?)

I recently returned from some travels to find that I no longer get ESPN-HD with my
QAM256 receiver card in my MythTV PVR. I see from this thread that Comcast recently started encrypting those channels that I could previously receive (ESPN-HD, InHD, InHD2).

The posting on this mentions being grandfathered into unencrypted HD channels. Has anyone gotten this enabled? This sounds unlikely to me.. Comcast is not sending the channels to each person individually, they broadcast them to your whole area (depending on how the distribution in your area is set up, this could be a lot of people). So, they can't just switch off crypto for me, without effecting everyone else.

Am I wrong on this? Is anyone else still working with their QAM receiver? Or, did my
reason for keeping Comcast just get eliminated?

Bill: Do you think the PQ is better for SD channels from the direct cable feed, or through the 6412? (I presume you split the cable 'out of the wall', sending one branch directly to the TV and one to the 6412, right?)

Ya know, this REALLY isn't necessary if you just get a phase 3 box from comcast. The analog picture quality went from awful to better than the direct input on my TV when I got this puppy. Just a thought. I had thought of getting a cable card before I discovered the wonderful world of phase 3.

Sorry Tji, but you have joined the rest of us in losing the INHD1/2 ESPN-HD signals. As you suspect, the grandfather clause only works for those that had signed up for the HD package, and had an HD STB or cable-card installed. In those cases, Comcast seems to have authorized those STBs to decode the INHD1/2 and ESPN-HD signals. Those of us using a QAM256 tuner, without the cable card, are out of luck.

Greg

I recently returned from some travels to find that I no longer get ESPN-HD with my
QAM256 receiver card in my MythTV PVR. I see from this thread that Comcast recently started encrypting those channels that I could previously receive (ESPN-HD, InHD, InHD2).

The posting on this mentions being grandfathered into unencrypted HD channels. Has anyone gotten this enabled? This sounds unlikely to me.. Comcast is not sending the channels to each person individually, they broadcast them to your whole area (depending on how the distribution in your area is set up, this could be a lot of people). So, they can't just switch off crypto for me, without effecting everyone else.

Am I wrong on this? Is anyone else still working with their QAM receiver? Or, did my
reason for keeping Comcast just get eliminated?

Bill: Do you think the PQ is better for SD channels from the direct cable feed, or through the 6412? (I presume you split the cable 'out of the wall', sending one branch directly to the TV and one to the 6412, right?)

Since I can fine tune the SD stations on the Samsung HLR5668W, SD is much better using the Samsung than the 6412. But, I still have not upgraded to the 6412 III. It is supposed to have better SD and it could close the current SD gap. I need to get another HDMI cable before going to the 6412 III ... so maybe in a week or so I'll pull that project together and let you know how it goes.

Ya know, this REALLY isn't necessary if you just get a phase 3 box from comcast. The analog picture quality went from awful to better than the direct input on my TV when I got this puppy. Just a thought. I had thought of getting a cable card before I discovered the wonderful world of phase 3.

I will certainly be getting a Phase III, hopefully this week, and I hope my result is as good as you say; would definitely be simpler.

If you are currently grandfathered, and you upgrade to the phase III box, will you still be able to get espnhd, discoveryhd ect..??

I called them asking for those channels, then u need to insist that u know there's this $9 upgrade to digital classic, no expand channel needed, then add this $5 HD package, then u all set, good luck.


Thanks Bxz

I assumed you just called the Comcast 800 number and asked to upgrade to the service that allows you INHD1, INHD2 and DiscoveryHD? Or did you just ask for digital classic plus HD upgrade without reference to these channels?

I'll keep trying I guess - at least I have some hope ;-)

peter

OK, I got the Phase III version of the 6412 this morning, and like others have said, it does indeed give much better PQ for the SD channels. And HD is still super. And the hard drive seems to quieter than the one I had before.

To be able to utilize PIP, though, I guess it is still necessary to split the cable coming out of the wall, sending one line to the 6412 and the other directly to the TV. Correct? Does spitting the feed this way reduce the strength, e.g., going to the stb, in any significant way?

OK, I got the Phase III version of the 6412 this morning, and like others have said, it does indeed give much better PQ for the SD channels. And HD is still super. And the hard drive seems to quieter than the one I had before.

To be able to utilize PIP, though, I guess it is still necessary to split the cable coming out of the wall, sending one line to the 6412 and the other directly to the TV. Correct? Does spitting the feed this way reduce the strength, e.g., going to the stb, in any significant way?
You can check the actual signal strength (on the digital stations) with the following procedure. Turn the DVR off, then immediately press enter. The diagnostics menu will come up ... go to option 4 (something like D04) and you will be able to see the signal strength for both tuners. Note, tuner two is always less than tuner 1 because it appears that Motorola splits the signal in the DVR again.

You can check the actual signal strength (on the digital stations) with the following procedure. Turn the DVR off, then immediately press enter. The diagnostics menu will come up ... go to option 4 (something like D04) and you will be able to see the signal strength for both tuners. Note, tuner two is always less than tuner 1 because it appears that Motorola splits the signal in the DVR again.

Great, thanks Bill. Any guide as to how strong it should be if one wants to split it like I described?

Great, thanks Bill. Any guide as to how strong it should be if one wants to split it like I described?

As long as the signals stay in the GOOD range, everything seems to work fine. FAIR or POOR signal can lead to problems (especially audio dropouts on recordings). I just put the splitter on and then look at the signal strenght again. I've found that some splitters work better than others at minimizing any signal loss ... it probably won't be a problem.

As long as the signals stay in the GOOD range, everything seems to work fine. FAIR or POOR signal can lead to problems (especially audio dropouts on recordings). I just put the splitter on and then look at the signal strenght again. I've found that some splitters work better than others at minimizing any signal loss ... it probably won't be a problem.

Will do, and thanks again. Bill

I think you got me mixed up. :) I live in an apartment complex. The wiring should be good. They re-did the whole complex a couple of years ago. I haven't called Comcast yet.

I find it puzzling too that the automatic gain control on tuner 2 is lower than on tuner 1. It should be higher to compensate for the lower S/N ratio.

I get the errors ALL the damn time. What should I do?

Your AGC numbers of 46% and 54% are good, you don't need a signal booster. The SNR numbers look good too. I think your problem is interference. The Comcast techs call it "ingress". Outside signals that leak into the cable system and cause interference. I had this problem from a local pager system. They replaced all the connectors on all of my cables and replaced a couple of the short patch cables and the problem was fixed. Have a tech come out and tell him you think it's an "ingress" problem. Being in an apartment building will make this much more complicated, it could be a neighbors setup that is leaking back thru a splitter and contaminating your signal.

efball, thanks for the insight!

at least for me in Santa Clara...after going out on a limb the other day and saying how good the playoff game looked on Monday, i thought last night's game was very poor PQ in comparison. lots of pixelation issues and loss of low level detail (smearing of faces when zoomed in). is this Fox's fault or Comcast constantly juggling bandwidth? (i know Dish Network would do that all the time when i had them...one day a station looked great, another time, awful).

then came Lost at 9pm and it looked fine, but did anyone get that horrific audio glitch in the first 5-10 minutes of the show. yuck! what was up with that? fortunately, it didn't persist, but annoying nevertheless.

<gripe mode off>

on a positive note: your guys rock! this forum is awesome.

sorry to ask this but i'm going to get the 6200 box tomorrow, just wondering are u guys able to record the Discovery, INHD from the 1394 port of the box? or are they 5Ced? if they r 5ced, i'd rather get a cablecard to save some space.

thx

then came Lost at 9pm and it looked fine, but did anyone get that horrific audio glitch in the first 5-10 minutes of the show. yuck! what was up with that? fortunately, it didn't persist, but annoying nevertheless.


I had this audio glitch as well last night and in fact the night before as well, KGO both times. I've seen/heard this before in the past but don't recall if it was KGO or not. Nasty noise..like an audio tape getting hung up..

keenan,

thanks...at least its good to confirm it wasn't somehow on my end (with my box). i think i heard it once before while watching i think WestWing on NBC...so, it is probably a comcast problem...

keenan,

thanks...at least its good to confirm it wasn't somehow on my end (with my box). i think i heard it once before while watching i think WestWing on NBC...so, it is probably a comcast problem...
It could also be a problem from the station.

I have also been noticing the once-in-awhile blocking artifact, it appears very briefly on a small part of the screen and then it's gone. I have been seeing more of it lately but chalked it up to possibly being the DVR screwing up the playback as I watch most everything after being recorded. Although, upon rewinding and playing back the section, it's still there so I have to assume it's coming from the source. Whether it's Comcast or the broadcaster, I have no idea as I can't compare to the OTA signal.

These are things to keep an eye on though...hopefully it goes away as the alternative usually isn't pretty.. :D

It could also be a problem from the station.

I have also been noticing the once-in-awhile blocking artifact, it appears very briefly on a small part of the screen and then it's gone. I have been seeing more of it lately but chalked it up to possibly being the DVR screwing up the playback as I watch most everything after being recorded. Although, upon rewinding and playing back the section, it's still there so I have to assume it's coming from the source. Whether it's Comcast or the broadcaster, I have no idea as I can't compare to the OTA signal.

These are things to keep an eye on though...hopefully it goes away as the alternative usually isn't pretty.. :D

I've noticed the last couple of nights the picture has been breaking up quite a bit on 705,707, and above. I used to get all these channels rock-solid, but lately they break up; 702 and 703 were both good.

I wonder if Comcast has started to play with rate-shaping or stat-muxing again to try and recover more bandwidth. They make the "unofficial" claim that they pass the HD signal as received(other than conversion to QAM) from the station but you have to wonder how long that will continue as the demand for more bandwidth increases.

Does anyone know if you can subscribe to the nba league pass with just using a cablecard or do you have to use one of the motorola boxes.Called comcast and was told i must use a box and pay an extra 6.95 a month over what iam paying now for the box without dvr or 10.95 with dvr feature.I currently have a cablecard installed in my xbr960 and would rather not use a box.

I wonder if Comcast has started to play with rate-shaping or stat-muxing again to try and recover more bandwidth. They make the "unofficial" claim that they pass the HD signal as received(other than conversion to QAM) from the station but you have to wonder how long that will continue as the demand for more bandwidth increases.
I think if they started rate-shaping, we would see more than 2 HD channels per 6Mhz. Right now the most I see are 2 HD (or HD+SD if OTA broadcast was mixed) channels per 6Mhz. 2 x ATSC/19.2Mbps fits roughly in 1 x QAM256 6Mhz/38.4Mbps.

I think if they started rate-shaping, we would see more than 2 HD channels per 6Mhz. Right now the most I see are 2 HD (or HD+SD if OTA broadcast was mixed) channels per 6Mhz. 2 x ATSC/19.2Mbps fits roughly in 1 x QAM256 6Mhz/38.4Mbps.
Good point.

Always a good idea to let Comcast know we are keeping an eye on them though.. :D

Does anyone know if you can subscribe to the nba league pass with just using a cablecard or do you have to use one of the motorola boxes.Called comcast and was told i must use a box and pay an extra 6.95 a month over what iam paying now for the box without dvr or 10.95 with dvr feature.I currently have a cablecard installed in my xbr960 and would rather not use a box.
I don't know why you would need a box. The CableCARD should be able to be authorized to view the channel.

Of course, I'm not sure how Comcast's NBA League Pass works, pretty sure it's not available in my area. (not much is..) :)

Rshaw,

Several weeks ago, during the QAM64 -> QAM256 conversion (I think) I noticed that my higher frequency HD signals started being degraded. Lots of pixalization and sound drops. If I remember correctly, it was KQED and KGO ( on channel 117 at 753MHz) and KNTV and ESPN-HD (on channel 116 at 747MHz). My Sony TV reported the signal strengths as being low. After an unproductive call to Comcast tech support, I ended up adding a signal amplifier and the problems are now gone.

You might try that.

Greg


I've noticed the last couple of nights the picture has been breaking up quite a bit on 705,707, and above. I used to get all these channels rock-solid, but lately they break up; 702 and 703 were both good.

On 707, has anyone noticed during Lost (wens. night 8pm) in the first few minutes, a horrible audio screech that lasts maybe 3-5sec and disappears? I'm feeding the DD5.1 stream via toslink to my receiver. I don't think it's a receiver problem but could be. I have never heard this on 705 with DD. Only with Lost and during the first few minutes of the show. I seems to happen every week.

Best,
jeff

Regarding the horrible screetch during Lost, i too noticed it and it happened during the premier episode this season too.I am running a cable card in san jose.

zack

I noticed the screech, but I taped LOST with my HD-DVR, but the sound was only DD 2.0.

Anyone else notice this, or was it DD 5.1 for everyone else?

I have Comcast in Newark, CA btw.

I was 5.1 and had the screech, live. I'm interested if anyone had it OTA as well.

I scanned the yahoo site and nobody mentioned it there. I know that kgo taps directly into the comcast feed, so I'll bet it was on ota as well. I might ping the kgo engineers about it. I mainly wanted to make sure that my receiver was starting to have problems.
Best,
jeff

I was 5.1 and had the screech, live. I'm interested if anyone had it OTA as well.
You could tell it was 5.1 because of the speaker channel check done during the image of the space shuttle that popped up....that was weird, to say the least..

I saw that too - space shuttle image... My receiver also showed 5.1. Recall that kgo had had the problem with the ticking. The op had two decoders and theyusually would just switch to the other while they rebooted the ticking one. I wonder they've changed.

jeff

not your receiver having problems at all since i heard it over the analog outs on my HD box from Comcast.

I too experienced the Lost audio interruption via OTA / 5.1.

Thanks for the confirmation guys! Nice to not be alone!

jeff

I heard it too. Not the first time either. I heard it last week too, but I can't remember on which show it was (it was HD for sure, I think it was Invasion).

Here is an update on my Comcast situation. They had blaimed the stuttering of my hd digital channels on the wiring in my home, but i doubted this and thought maybe a different cable card or set top box would help. It turns out that for some reason with their cable card the channels stutter but with the cable box everything is perfect. Needless to say i am using the 6200 cable box now. I am running component inputs and i do notice that the picture is not as crisp as it was with the cable card. Would using the DVI difference be noticeable? Has anyone experienced this problem with a cable card? Anyway, thanks for suggestions.

zack

DVI might help slightly but shouldn't make a huge difference. You might want to play with the box output settings (try both 720p and 1080i, use which ever looks better to you - it will depend on your TV). To get the setup menu, turn the box off and press the MENU key.

As for sound, I have heard a slight ticking noise (rarely), it sounds like you got a pebble stuck in your tire? Usually only lasts 5-10 seconds then goes away. Can't really report any other sound problems. I don't watch prime time network HD shows though, mostly just football or HBO. A lot of times during football you get the sound skipping or repeating when they switch from SD (during commericals or network breaks sometimes) back to HD, but that's just because they aren't perfectly in sync I guess.

Hi all. New to this board :)
Just got Motorola Cable Box (orderd CableCard (CC), but instead got cable box(CB)...and was told CC is not that great and people are having problems with it).
Just have one questions, it seems after getting the CB, the regular channels seem to loose quality ...ALOT. Is it just me or its really worse? I have Samsung HL-R5067W TV.

Thakns

PS. i noticed CB has Ethernet on the back of it as well as 2 USB ports...anyway i can use them to connect to computer?

Hi all. New to this board :)
Just got Motorola Cable Box (orderd CableCard (CC), but instead got cable box(CB)...and was told CC is not that great and people are having problems with it).
Just have one questions, it seems after getting the CB, the regular channels seem to loose quality ...ALOT. Is it just me or its really worse? I have Samsung HL-R5067W TV.

Thakns

PS. i noticed CB has Ethernet on the back of it as well as 2 USB ports...anyway i can use them to connect to computer?

First, ethernet and USB ports do not work. For SD channels, the internal tuner in the 5067 will probably do a better job. You can split your signal before the TV and go to both the TV and your STB. One option that you have is to upgrade to the new Motorola 6412 HD DVR, it seems to have greatly improved SD tuning.

I see, ok, thanks. Another question, the OnDemand option. When I click on it, it gives me list of Categories I can choose from, including Movies and Free Movies. Free Movies, does that mean I can watch them for free? Or is there some fee? When I started one of them and paused, it showed that movie has 23+ hours left and had $ sign near the Movie Rating. Can someone please explain what it means. I have Basic Package, HDTV and Digital Packages.

Here is an update on my Comcast situation. They had blaimed the stuttering of my hd digital channels on the wiring in my home, but i doubted this and thought maybe a different cable card or set top box would help. It turns out that for some reason with their cable card the channels stutter but with the cable box everything is perfect. Needless to say i am using the 6200 cable box now.
Now that you have a 6200 STB, I suggest you go in the diagnostic page and see if you are getting any errors. See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6361434&&#post6361434

What I have observed is the STBs usually have better error correction than QAM tuners builtin to TVs. Because of the superior error correction on the STBs, they can hide signal problems.

The diagnostic page on the 6200 should so zero errors, correctable and uncorrectable (in a well functioning system). If you see errors, there is likely some signal issue in your location and that is why your TV/QAM/CableCARD has issues. Once the source of the errors is diagnosed and addressed, the CableCARD will work fine.

For the last 2 days I have been getting this message and no reception on 719, 720, 722, 723, and 725. The broadcast channels 702, 703, 704, 705, 707, and 709 are fine. This has happened in the past but usually clears up the next day. I have the new option III 6412 DVR. It acts like the signals are not there, but Comcast says they have to send out a tech. Is anybody else having this problem?

They started encrypting recently and you probably were on the wrong authorization level. In the past you probably got the channels because they weren't encrypted so you never noticed the issue.

They started encrypting recently and you probably were on the wrong authorization level. In the past you probably got the channels because they weren't encrypted so you never noticed the issue.

I have Digital Classic, Standard Cable with DVR Service for $65/ mo. Shouldn't that get me 719, 720, 722, 723 and 725 unencrypted? The CSR reset my box, but that didn't get me these channels. Do you still think that it is an encryption issue? My guess is that they lost these signals at my headend about a mile away, and it is now the weekend and won't get fixed until Monday.

I have Digital Classic, Standard Cable with DVR Service for $65/ mo. Shouldn't that get me 719, 720, 722, 723 and 725 unencrypted? The CSR reset my box, but that didn't get me these channels. Do you still think that it is an encryption issue? My guess is that they lost these signals at my headend about a mile away, and it is now the weekend and won't get fixed until Monday.
I'm not saying you are not paying for those channels. I'm saying you were paying for them but probably through some clerical error your authorization level was that of a person who wasn't paying.

Since for many months, none of those channels were being encrypted, you wouldn't have noticed any difference between your actual authorization level and the one you were supposed to be on.

When they started encrypting, it was encrypted for everyone. Only those STBs that were at the appropriate authorization level would decrypt the channel.

I don't think you would have lost those channels at the head-end for 2 weeks with nobody fixing it.

Woops, I just reread your message and even though you wrote 2 days, for some reason I read 2 weeks. Yeah, maybe it is what you are suggesting.

I'm pretty close to your location but probably not on the same head end. I do receive those channels right now.

Ok, dumb question:

is there any harm whatsoever to a digital signal for the Comcast HD STB (i don't my model number, but have had it about a year+) when i use a splitter? my intuition tells me that as long as it picks up a signal, the picture quality should be the same with either a straight feed or a split signal. of course, if it's too weak, then nothing will be shown at all or the signal/picture may be unreliable, right?

anyway, i wanted to confirm with the knowledgeable folks on this forum. i am assuming that in contrast, analog signal is effected by the strength of the signal. i have certainly seen this in my past experience.

today, i pulled my Aquos off the wall and fed it a split analog signal (RF) and much as people have commented here, the SD stations look better over the internal tuner...sure, close up, it's "noisy," but a few feet back, its more detailed than the SD channels through the STB which looks like it is displaying MPEG compression artifcats (i think that's what it is...smeared pixels and blending of fine detail)

anyway, thanks in advance for comments. sorry if this is such a basic question.

ps. i'm on a quest tomorrow, regardless, to try to find a decent 3 way splitter for the feed coming into our house directly from Comcast. i have a 4 way which Comcast gave us, but why have the extra feed going nowhere and degrading the other three signals?

Now that you have a 6200 STB, I suggest you go in the diagnostic page and see if you are getting any errors. See here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6361434&&#post6361434

What I have observed is the STBs usually have better error correction than QAM tuners builtin to TVs. Because of the superior error correction on the STBs, they can hide signal problems.

The diagnostic page on the 6200 should so zero errors, correctable and uncorrectable (in a well functioning system). If you see errors, there is likely some signal issue in your location and that is why your TV/QAM/CableCARD has issues. Once the source of the errors is diagnosed and addressed, the CableCARD will work fine.


Well, i checked the diagnostics page and i have 0 errors. What could possibly be behind my stuttering with the cable card, but perfect picture with set top box? Does any one else have a Samsung 67W series with a cablecard working?
Zack

Well, i checked the diagnostics page and i have 0 errors. What could possibly be behind my stuttering with the cable card, but perfect picture with set top box? Does any one else have a Samsung 67W series with a cablecard working?
Zack
I haven't followed your thread closely. Do you get stuttering w/o the CableCARD?

You can also check your AGC #s which will give you relative signal strength. It is possible your signal is too weak for your displays QAM tuner.

You can also try searching on your model # to see if other folks are having similar issues. Sometimes vendors have firmware updates to correct CableCARD issues found in the field.

The "Free" movies in VOD are free. A lot of the stuff in VOD is free, in fact most of it is. Pretty much only the "movies" in the first category cost money, and they say so in the description. There is also a 2nd popup for safety, that asks "are you sure you want to purchase this program, a charge of $X.XX will appear on your bill" (OK) (NO) etc.. so it's pretty hard to accidently purchase something - and even if you do I think you have to watch more than a few minutes of it for them to actually charge you.

Funny story, I was visiting my folks a couple months ago and watching TV with my mom. She's got the remote and wants to switch to channel 705 to watch some show, but instead she types in 805 which is one of the PPV porno stations... Well the popup comes up "Do you really want to purchase Jenna Jamison XXX..whatever for $14.95?" and while I'm yelling "no mom push cancel, cancel!!!" she again types in "7...0...5... ENTER" - of course the box ignored the "705" but the "ENTER" makes the porn show start... big huge boobs flopping all over the screen... Anyway I grabbed the remote and shut it off, and I don't think they got charged for it... Heh.

Speaking of OnDemand, the new Showtime drama, Sleeper Cell that airs in Dec will have the first 2 episodes available through OnDemand sometime in Nov. I can't find the original article that mentions the OnDemand viewing so anyone who is interested will have to do some searching or check the OnDemand schedule, if there is such a thing.

Of course, there is no OnDemand or Showtime-HD in many Comcast systems in the bay area so this would only pertain to you lucky folks who get both.

http://www.sho.com/site/announcements/050914sleeper.do
Showtime - Announcements

Question for you folks with the Phase III Moto boxes.

When using the HDMI hookup to your HDMI display, does the audio output revert to PCM from DD 5.1?

In a couple of other threads users are reporting that when using component the optical and coax audio output will pass DD 5.1, when using HDMI it does not, it passes it to the display, turning off the DD output at the optical and coax outputs.

Is anyone experiencing this?

Question for you folks with the Phase III Moto boxes.

When using the HDMI hookup to your HDMI display, does the audio output revert to PCM from DD 5.1?

In a couple of other threads users are reporting that when using component the optical and coax audio output will pass DD 5.1, when using HDMI it does not, it passes it to the display, turning off the DD output at the optical and coax outputs.

Is anyone experiencing this?

It sends PCM via HDMI to your monitor and DD 5.1 to your AVR at the same time. You can use the speakers in the TV, or your receiver, or both. PQ improvements on SD definitely worth the upgrade ... mine seems much quieter also.

It sends PCM via HDMI to your monitor and DD 5.1 to your AVR at the same time. You can use the speakers in the TV, or your receiver, or both. PQ improvements on SD definitely worth the upgrade ... mine seems much quieter also.
And this is with an HDMI input on your monitor?

Interesting, these other posters must have something else going on.

And this is with an HDMI input on your monitor?

Interesting, these other posters must have something else going on.

Yes, I have the 6412 III connected to my Samsung HLR5668W 1080p monitor via HMDI. I have it running now and have rechecked it for you ... I'm on Discover HD being broadcast in DD5.1, my receiver is showing DD 5.1. TV speakers are also working correctly. Please be clearer about the problem being reported ... are people concerned about the DD5.1 being downsampled to few channels?

And this is with an HDMI input on your monitor?

Interesting, these other posters must have something else going on.

One thing did occur to me ... if you hit the DVR MUTE button, it stops audio to both the TV and receiver. This is the way you would want it to work, but perhaps some testing both the TV and AVR may have hit the MUTE button not realizing that the receiver output was also muted.

When using the HDMI hookup to your HDMI display, does the audio output revert to PCM from DD 5.1?

In a couple of other threads users are reporting that when using component the optical and coax audio output will pass DD 5.1, when using HDMI it does not, it passes it to the display, turning off the DD output at the optical and coax outputs.

Is anyone experiencing this?
I've seen HDMI doom and gloom folks mention that some HDMI devices have a bug or design flaw where whatever audio is negotiated on the HDMI connection is forced onto the optical/coax output as well.

Thus if you connect HDMI to your TV, the TV says I'm a 2-channel device, so it negotiates with the STB or DVD player to use PCM. Now some folks also have their STB or DVD player connected to their audio receiver to get 5.1. The complaint is by using the HDMI connection (even if they have no plans to use audio through their TV), they are limited to 2-channel PCM through their receiver. This makes the HDMI connection virtually useless because using it forces them to lose 5.1 sound.

I haven't seen this in practice with my Panny S77 HDMI DVD player and I haven't seen a lot of people complaining about such a situation on the forums, but anything is possible with new hardware. UCSB's experience, on the other hand, would seem to cast doubt on whether such a situation is happening with the Moto Phase3 boxes.

Please be clearer about the problem being reported ... are people concerned about the DD5.1 being downsampled to few channels?
Not sure, I'm only commenting on what has been posted in the Phase III thread. The discussion starts about here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6405783#post6405783) .

If I'm not mistaken, that's how an HDMI>HDMI connection is supposed to work to maintain HDCP but I was unaware that/if these cable boxes did the same thing.

I've seen HDMI doom and gloom folks mention that some HDMI devices have a bug or design flaw where whatever audio is negotiated on the HDMI connection is forced onto the optical/coax output as well.

Thus if you connect HDMI to your TV, the TV says I'm a 2-channel device, so it negotiates with the STB or DVD player to use PCM. Now some folks also have their STB or DVD player connected to their audio receiver to get 5.1. The complaint is by using the HDMI connection (even if they have no plans to use audio through their TV), they are limited to 2-channel PCM through their receiver. This makes the HDMI connection virtually useless because using it forces them to lose 5.1 sound.

I haven't seen this in practice with my Panny S77 HDMI DVD player and I haven't seen a lot of people complaining about such a situation on the forums, but anything is possible with new hardware. UCSB's experience, on the other hand, would seem to cast doubt on whether such a situation is happening with the Moto Phase3 boxes.
This is exactly what they say has been happening. There has also been a discussion about it in the video processor forum. Evidently with the HiRez DVD formats it's going to become an even bigger issue as those audio streams are without a doubt going to be copy-protected. Feed the output from the source to a VP via HDMI and there is no way to strip out the audio and send it to the pre/pro-recvr.

Not sure, I'm only commenting on what has been posted in the Phase III thread. The discussion starts about here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6405783#post6405783) .
I think there are probably different firmware or hardware revisions in play, because the behavior posted by 2 different folks on that thread are at odds.

To save the need to sift through the posts, here are the two relevant posts:

HDMI PCM negotiation forces Optical/Coax digital out to PCM
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6408247&&#post6408247

Optical/Coax digital out sends DD5.1 independent of HDMI PCM negotiation
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6411852&&#post6411852

This is exactly what they say has been happening. There has also been a discussion about it in the video processor forum. Evidently with the HiRez DVD formats it's going to become an even bigger issue as those audio streams are without a doubt going to be copy-protected. Feed the output from the source to a VP via HDMI and there is no way to strip out the audio and send it to the pre/pro-recvr.
The thing is, I don't believe this particular example should be considered as a "bigger" issue with HiRez DVD. IMO this is a *bug* or *design flaw* with the equipment being mentioned.

There is a separate issue that content providers have a desire to output degraded audio/video if HDCP is *not being used*. You can see this with the 5.1 DVD audio format, where you need to connect 6 analog lines to get 5.1 DVD audio to your receiver. The single Optical/Coax digital line would have worked fine, except the content providers won't let you have unencrypted digital 5.1 DVD audio in the wild. So when you play movies, you use the optical/coax line. When you play 5.1 DVD audio, you need to switch your receiver to use the 6 discrete analog inputs.

In the particular case with the Moto Phase3 box, HDMI is being used, so by definition HDCP is being used, so there is no need to restrict the optical/coax port. Further, if you did *not* use HDMI and used component instead (ie HDCP was not being used) then DD5.1 is available on the optical/coax output. Therefore, clearly this is not an issue of content provider forcing degraded output when HDCP is not being used. Instead, I feel it is a bug in Moto Phase3 (or at least in some, but not all, of the units)

I think there are probably different firmware or hardware revisions in play, because the behavior posted by 2 different folks on that thread are at odds.

To save the need to sift through the posts, here are the two relevant posts:

HDMI PCM negotiation forces Optical/Coax digital out to PCM
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6408247&&#post6408247

Optical/Coax digital out sends DD5.1 independent of HDMI PCM negotiation
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6411852&&#post6411852
This second post is not relevant as millerwill's connection is HDMI>DVI. In this case their is no HDMI receiver to "talk" to the sending unit to tell it what to do, or send. IOW, no audio receiver to signal the sending unit.

DVDO's newest VP, the VP30 will accept HDMI inputs(4) but it cannot strip out the audio component for output through the Toslink or coax audio outputs. The license does not allow it, supposedly. A British VP maker claims they have resolved the issue but neither the DVDO unit or the British unit have made it to market yet.

It appears to be a problem only with HDMI>HDMI connections, and, as you say, it could very well be a bug within certain pieces of equipment(Moto box..display).

Regarding the HiRez DVD format it is a real problem if the unit receiving the video/audio signal does not have the ability to re-direct the HDCP-protected audio to another protected outlet for transmission to an audio processor. Also with HiRez DVD, the component outputs, if used, will not allow the full HiRez video signal to pass and will not allow the Hirez audio output either.

I'm not a "doom and gloom" HDMI fanatic :D but I do think there are some transmission and distribution issues to be worked out. This could be from improper implementation by the manufacturer and/or from the HDMI group which is continually revising their spec.

This second post is not relevant as millerwill's connection is HDMI>DVI. In this case their is no HDMI receiver to "talk" to the sending unit to tell it what to do, or send. IOW, no audio receiver to signal the sending unit.
...
Regarding the HiRez DVD format it is a real problem if the unit receiving the video/audio signal does not have the ability to re-direct the HDCP-protected audio to another protected outlet for transmission to an audio processor. Also with HiRez DVD, the component outputs, if used, will not allow the full HiRez video signal to pass and will not allow the Hirez audio output either.

Regarding HDMI->DVI, woops, I guess I read it too quickly. Substitute UCSB's post above :)

I agree completely the scenario you describe in your reply is a potential issue coming up. I just felt the Moto Phase3 issue some people are having is something unrelated.

What's up with NBC tonight (703)? They forget to throw the switch?

jeff

I've gone back and retested the HDMI audio to TV and digital audio to receiver again on my Motorola 6412 III. This time I was switching between component and HDMI. There is no doubt that there is something a little unstable about how this is working.

To summarize, the connection between the Motorola 6412 III and the TV always appears to work correctly. But, there appears to be some situations where the audio going to the receiver via the digital optical out on the 6412 III does not work correctly. Case in point, the audio going to the receiver under some conditions steps down to 2 channel stereo ... but, on my setup if you leave it alone for a little while, it will reestablish a DD 5.1 connection. I don't know what is happening, but it almost appears like the Motorola 6412 III needs to reestablish a HDCP hand shake with the monitor. Until this has been accomplished, it seems to step back to PCM 2 channel audio. But, once the connection is established resumes DD 5.1. This is just a theory. At any rate, it seems to be a firmware bug and may be dependent on your monitors ability to resolve some issue with the DVR (HDCP???). Anyway, it has shaken my confidence in the digital optical audio connection from the 6412 III.

This problem should be reported to Comcast ... anyone know what the procedure is to submit an issue?

What's up with NBC tonight (703)? They forget to throw the switch?

jeff
Heavy rains in NYC. NBC uses a different sat transmission system than the other 3 networks and it is very susceptible to rain fade. Apparently there are other ways to transmit when this happens but it appears they have chosen not to go that route. There are a few threads about NBC problems in the HDTV programming forum.

NBC uses Ku band for transmission. The other networks are on C Band which handles rain better. Ku is known for rain fade. (Think Dish and Directv).

Thursday night looks to be a good night to tune back in to NBC, scattered showers is the forecast.. :rolleyes: :D

This problem should be reported to Comcast ... anyone know what the procedure is to submit an issue?
The most direct route we have here is through Mikef5. He seems to be in contact with Andrew Johnson on a semi-regular basis. I think you will get dead air on the phone if you call a CSR with this issue.

Thanks for reporting back BTW, methinks I'm going to hold on to my Phase II box for awhile.. :p

Regarding HDMI->DVI, woops, I guess I read it too quickly. Substitute UCSB's post above :)

I agree completely the scenario you describe in your reply is a potential issue coming up. I just felt the Moto Phase3 issue some people are having is something unrelated.
I didn't catch it myself until I read his post twice.. :D

I've gone back and retested the HDMI audio to TV and digital audio to receiver again on my Motorola 6412 III. <snip>
Here's a post where a fairly knowledgeable guy went through all sorts of hookups to diagnose the problem, bottom line, there's a problem.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6413508#post6413508
New moto 6412 with HDMI and SATA - AVS Forum

Here's a post where a fairly knowledgeable guy went through all sorts of hookups to diagnose the problem, bottom line, there's a problem.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6413508#post6413508
New moto 6412 with HDMI and SATA - AVS Forum

Nice write-up. I think we really need to report this problem here in the Bay Area region so they can attempt to resolve it.

Nice write-up. I think we really need to report this problem here in the Bay Area region so they can attempt to resolve it.
Absolutely, I don't have a Phase III but someone who does might try by contacting Mikef5 (www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=59843) and see if he can get a dialog going with Mr. J.

Absolutely, I don't have a Phase III but someone who does might try by contacting Mikef5 (www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/member.php?u=59843) and see if he can get a dialog going with Mr. J.

OK ... I just sent a message to Mike.

Mikef5, while you're at it, ask him if there is any news on this front.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6416099#post6416099
New Maxtor hard drive targets HD-capable DVRs - AVS Forum

Mikef5, while you're at it, ask him if there is any news on this front.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=6416099#post6416099
New Maxtor hard drive targets HD-capable DVRs - AVS Forum
I'm almost sure that one of the problems with activating the external SATA port ( and adding additional hard drive space) has something to do with how to implement copy protection on them. That's just my guess but I'd bet that is the big problem that they have to deal with, once that is accomplished I would expect them to activate that port.

Laters,
Mikef5

OK ... I just sent a message to Mike.
Got your message but let me put things in prospective. There are so many different setups that people have that it would be next to impossible to trouble shoot all those systems. Does this problem happen all the time or some of the times, does it happen on all digital channels or only certain channels, does it happen on all receivers or just one or two receivers, etc. etc..... I know some of the problems have to do with the station and the way they are implementing their conversion to digital and the new equipment that they are now using and how they are broadcasting but what I will do is let Mr. J. know that there is a problem with HDMI passing the proper audio signals in some customers equipment. Actually he probably already knows because believe it or not he really reads this forum and normally lets me know long before I get wind of it. :)
I have a Phase III box with HDMI connected to my Sony HD set and I send the audio to my sound system ( I also turn off the internal speakers on my set ) and I don't have that problem or at least never noticed it before so not all people have this problem which would make it much easier to trouble shoot if they did, but I'll drop him a note just in case.

Laters,
Mikef5

About the sound problems, let me make sure we are talking apples to apples. Are you taking the sound output of your tv and passing it to your audio receivers or are you using the audio out of the Motorola boxes. If you are using the sound output of your tv, there might be a problem with how your tv set outputs the audio signal with the HDMI connection. I was just in the HP area ( looking at buying this new set from HP) and this is what has been found out for this set......"The Digital output will pass 5.1 audio only from CableCARD, Clear QAM cable, or OTA HDTV inputs (eg. Digital tuner inputs). It will only pass 2.0 audio from an HDMI input. Users that wish to obtain full 5.1 audio from a DVD player with HDMI should connect their DVD player 5.1 digital audio output directly to their audio receiver, bypassing the TV". So if this is how you are connecting the sound to your audio receivers the problem could be with your set.

Laters,
Mikef5

Got your message but let me put things in prospective. There are so many different setups that people have that it would be next to impossible to trouble shoot all those systems. Does this problem happen all the time or some of the times, does it happen on all digital channels or only certain channels, does it happen on all receivers or just one or two receivers, etc. etc..... I know some of the problems have to do with the station and the way they are implementing their conversion to digital and the new equipment that they are now using and how they are broadcasting but what I will do is let Mr. J. know that there is a problem with HDMI passing the proper audio signals in some customers equipment. Actually he probably already knows because believe it or not he really reads this forum and normally lets me know long before I get wind of it. :)
I have a Phase III box with HDMI connected to my Sony HD set and I send the audio to my sound system ( I also turn off the internal speakers on my set ) and I don't have that problem or at least never noticed it before so not all people have this problem which would make it much easier to trouble shoot if they did, but I'll drop him a note just in case.

Laters,
Mikef5

Mike ... Let me try to summarize. The problem occurs in the exact configuration you are using (ie. HDMI connection to TV and digital optical connection to receiver). Here is a summary of what is happening:

1. DD 5.1 sound (to the receiver) will probably be working on one of the two tuners when you are just watching TV. The other tuner will be limited to PCM 2 channel audio.
2. All recorded programs that you are playing back (through your receiver) will be in PCM 2 channel audio.

Again, this is just for customers that have the HDMI cable plugged into something. Component video customers will not see these problems.

Like you, I thought it was working until I looked at it closely. Once you see what is happening with the audio, it is very irritating. Essentially, if you are using the DVR functions the audio stream becomes downgraded.

Thanks,
Bill.

UCSB beat me to response, but it looks like
1) connect Moto Phase3 to home theatre receiver using optical cable
2) watch show from tuner #2 which has DD5.1
3) verify receiver is receiving DD5.1 via optical cable
4) plug in HDMI cable from Moto to TV
5) receiver now says it is receiving PCM over optical cable from Moto
6) disconnect HDMI cable
7) receiver now says it is receiving DD5.1 over optical cable from Moto

Mikef5, you might check out the links in the Phase III thread I linked to earlier. Bill Cruce from Widescreen Review has a post that lays out the issues fairly well. My uneducated guess is that somewhere in the handshaking that goes on between the Moto box and the HDMI-equipped display, the display end is telling the sending end what to do with certain audio streams.

I'm curious if this still occurs with a plain HDMI monitor type display(not equipped for sound/no tuner)

About the sound problems, let me make sure we are talking apples to apples. Are you taking the sound output of your tv and passing it to your audio receivers or are you using the audio out of the Motorola boxes. If you are using the sound output of your tv, there might be a problem with how your tv set outputs the audio signal with the HDMI connection. I was just in the HP area ( looking at buying this new set from HP) and this is what has been found out for this set......"The Digital output will pass 5.1 audio only from CableCARD, Clear QAM cable, or OTA HDTV inputs (eg. Digital tuner inputs). It will only pass 2.0 audio from an HDMI input. Users that wish to obtain full 5.1 audio from a DVD player with HDMI should connect their DVD player 5.1 digital audio output directly to their audio receiver, bypassing the TV". So if this is how you are connecting the sound to your audio receivers the problem could be with your set.

Laters,
Mikef5

I'm not talking about passing audio through the TV ... I know that will only yield PCM 2 channel audio. I'm talking about sending audio directly from the optical digital output on the 6412 III to the receiver (when the HDMI cable is plugged into the monitor - which triggers the problem).

I'm almost sure that one of the problems with activating the external SATA port ( and adding additional hard drive space) has something to do with how to implement copy protection on them. That's just my guess but I'd bet that is the big problem that they have to deal with, once that is accomplished I would expect them to activate that port.
I would think they have the same issue with the internal HD and any solution they did for that should be portable to the external drive port. I'm sure a few screws are not going to stop people that are motivated.

I would think they have the same issue with the internal HD and any solution they did for that should be portable to the external drive port. I'm sure a few screws are not going to stop people that are motivated.
The Dish 942 operates this way, you can unplug one drive and plug another in for more storage space and all drives are still encrypted.

The Moto box should be able to do the same, format and encrypt the extension drive just as it does to the internal drive.

Mikef5, you might check out the links in the Phase III thread I linked to earlier. Bill Cruce from Widescreen Review has a post that lays out the issues fairly well. My uneducated guess is that somewhere in the handshaking that goes on between the Moto box and the HDMI-equipped display, the display end is telling the sending end what to do with certain audio streams.

I'm curious if this still occurs with a plain HDMI monitor type display(not equipped for sound/no tuner)
You know the one thing that I did notice is that the HDMI connection is loose and if you move the cable you can make it lose it's picture. It's not like the DVI connection that has 2 screws to hold it in place. Another thing that I noticed is that if I have both HDMI and the component cables hooked up, I get a handshaking problem like we use to have when the DVI connection first came out, that problem required a firmware upgrade. I disconnected the component cables since the HDMI looks much better and that solved my problem and maybe why I'm not seeing the same problems. Might be the same problem happening here like with the DVI connection had and does in fact need a firmware upgrade.

Laters,
Mikef5

You know the one thing that I did notice is that the HDMI connection is loose and if you move the cable you can make it lose it's picture. It's not like the DVI connection that has 2 screws to hold it in place. Another thing that I noticed is that if I have both HDMI and the component cables hooked up, I get a handshaking problem like we use to have when the DVI connection first came out, that problem required a firmware upgrade. I disconnected the component cables since the HDMI looks much better and that solved my problem and maybe why I'm not seeing the same problems. Might be the same problem happening here like with the DVI connection had and does in fact need a firmware upgrade.

Laters,
Mikef5

I actually have both the component video and HDMI cables on my unit ... I'll disconnect the component video and retest.

You know the one thing that I did notice is that the HDMI connection is loose and if you move the cable you can make it lose it's picture.

Laters,
Mikef5
Yes, the HDMI physical connection system is very flimsy at best. Poorly designed.

The Moto box may well need a FW upgrade, but I suspect it has more to with the HDMI spec and it's protocols.

Yes, the HDMI physical connection system is very flimsy at best. Poorly designed.

The Moto box may well need a FW upgrade, but I suspect it has more to with the HDMI spec and it's protocols.

The same configuration (ie, HDMI to TV, dig optical to receiver) works perfectly from my Sony DVD player ... it is a Comcast / Motorola issue.

I actually have both the component video and HDMI cables on my unit ... I'll disconnect the component video and retest.

I disconnected the component video cables ... it made no difference. The problem with the 6412 is still the same as I described above. If you want the absolute fastest way to confirm the the problems ... start watching a show in DD 5.1 on the one tuner that is supporting DD 5.1 (tuner originally active when startup ???) and just hit instant replay. The program will skip back and start playing forward in 2 channel sound. You can not use any of the DVR functions or the second tuner without killing the DD 5.1.

COMCAST ... if you are listening out there ... PLEASE MAKE THIS A HIGH PRIORITY TO FIX.

The same configuration (ie, HDMI to TV, dig optical to receiver) works perfectly from my Sony DVD player ... it is a Comcast / Motorola issue.
Well that's good to know, it would seem to eliminate the HDMI hookup itself as the problem.

The bad news is, how long before Motorola has a fix? I doubt it's anything Comcast is doing, or not doing.

I've given up on HDMI on the new Motorola 6412 III ... the audio problems are just to irritating. I've disconnected the HDMI cable and am back on component video ... which appears to work.

So until that is fixed there is no reason to get a Phase III box, unless you watch some SD/analog material I suppose and IMO, DirecTV and/or Dish do a far better job with stuff than Comcast does.

There are literally too many pages of this thread to see if this question has been asked before....

But those with the DVR/HD Combo box (motorola) are channels 2-90 (analog) completely grainy and nearly unwatchable? I had a Comcast guy come out to my house and he basically said you are going to have to live with it if you want the DVR/HD combo box. Is there anyway to try and fix this problem?

Secondly-- Has ANYONE heard rumbulings of new HD Channels? With basketball season coming up it would make sense to add TNT. I recently switched over from Sat to Comcast because of the ease for local HD stations, but I am quickly starting to regret this decision.

So until that is fixed there is no reason to get a Phase III box, unless you watch some SD/analog material I suppose and IMO, DirecTV and/or Dish do a far better job with stuff than Comcast does.


ummmm, there are about 20 reasons I prefer the phase III box I have now and I seriously think these issues are user specific. I am having none of them. The HDMI cable works sooooo much better than teh DVI->HDMI option we had before. You guys have to be kidding me. I recommend everybody who can get a phase III box, they are the best thing since sliced bread. I guess it's possible some kind of firmware fix is needed for certain people's digital sound setup, but mine is working flawlessly and I'm sure other people's are too.

There are literally too many pages of this thread to see if this question has been asked before....

But those with the DVR/HD Combo box (motorola) are channels 2-90 (analog) completely grainy and nearly unwatchable? I had a Comcast guy come out to my house and he basically said you are going to have to live with it if you want the DVR/HD combo box. Is there anyway to try and fix this problem?

Secondly-- Has ANYONE heard rumbulings of new HD Channels? With basketball season coming up it would make sense to add TNT. I recently switched over from Sat to Comcast because of the ease for local HD stations, but I am quickly starting to regret this decision.


Absolutely no reason to live with it at all, THEY FIXED IT. The tech either doesn't know or doesn't want to mention that there is a new box(reffered to as phase III, they're the ones with HDMI instead of DVI output on the back) that has vastly improved analog handling. In fact, side by side with the direct input on my TV, the phase III box actually looks better than the direct input by quite a bit. They did a great job on it. If you have a HDMI input on your hdtv, the new box is a MUST. The old DVI outputs basically didn't work properly at all with the old box.

Yes, the HDMI physical connection system is very flimsy at best. Poorly designed.

The Moto box may well need a FW upgrade, but I suspect it has more to with the HDMI spec and it's protocols.
I've found that ironically Monster HDMI cables are the worst because their added bulks makes it easier for them to come loose.

I can confirm just like UCSB that this is not an issue with HDMI, but the source device.

My Panasonic S77 DVD player is connected to my Sharp Aquos 45" via HDMI. They have negotiated PCM over the HDMI connection. Panasonic S77 is connected to home theater receiver over optical. DD5.1 audio is being passed. This was verified using receiver status screen.

As most people are saying, there is something wrong with the Moto Phase3 box, which hopefully can be fixed in firmware. I think they all have the same problem, but some people notice it and some people don't because their receivers are probably doing Dolby PLIIx or some other 2-channel to 5.1 channel mapping procedure so 2-channel sounds like 5.1 channel.

Seems that there already is a firmware update that is suppose to fix the HDMI sound problem, the "Official Motorola" fix for this 5:1 DD sound problem is firmware 12.22. So I guess we'll just have to see when we get the firmware update if in fact it fixes the problem.

Laters,
Mikef5

Seems that there already is a firmware update that is suppose to fix the HDMI sound problem, the "Official Motorola" fix for this 5:1 DD sound problem is firmware 12.22. So I guess we'll just have to see when we get the firmware update if in fact it fixes the problem.

Laters,
Mikef5
Saw the same thing reported in the Phase III thread.

I've found that ironically Monster HDMI cables are the worst because their added bulks makes it easier for them to come loose.




Yes, the added weight puts too much tension on the socket. When I got a new display with HDMI input I purchased a short little DVI>HDMI adapter to utilize the 25' DVI cable I already was using. Turns out the adapter was being pulled too much so I went with a short 12" DVI>HDIM cable to alleviate the stress on the input jack.

I think there is a new type of HDMI connection that is supposed to click or lock into place which should help.

There are literally too many pages of this thread to see if this question has been asked before....

But those with the DVR/HD Combo box (motorola) are channels 2-90 (analog) completely grainy and nearly unwatchable? I had a Comcast guy come out to my house and he basically said you are going to have to live with it if you want the DVR/HD combo box. Is there anyway to try and fix this problem?

Secondly-- Has ANYONE heard rumbulings of new HD Channels? With basketball season coming up it would make sense to add TNT. I recently switched over from Sat to Comcast because of the ease for local HD stations, but I am quickly starting to regret this decision.

There is "search this thread" feature at the top. It's pretty useful to weed through massive threads.

Instead of getting the PIII box, you can just split your cable and run coax directly into the tuner. That will solve the viewing of live tv problem. viewing recorded material though still is an issue. I use s-video for playback of SD material (HD material's not a problem via component - yes I'm an early adopter and that's all I've got for HD input ;-)). it's not unwatchable, but worse than I'd like.

I had a chance to get a PIII box when I swapped 6412's (I had a bad one that paused frequently on playback). Guess I should have taken it.

Best,
jeff

Seems that there already is a firmware update that is suppose to fix the HDMI sound problem, the "Official Motorola" fix for this 5:1 DD sound problem is firmware 12.22. So I guess we'll just have to see when we get the firmware update if in fact it fixes the problem.

Laters,
Mikef5
That 12.22 firmware number, did you get that from Mr. J?

My present firmware on the 6412 III is 12.18--getting close to the magic 12.22! What are the rest of you?

My present firmware on the 6412 III is 12.18--getting close to the magic 12.22! What are the rest of you?
12.18

That 12.22 firmware number, did you get that from Mr. J?
Nope, but here is a link where I found out about it....
http://www.broadbandreports.com/forum/remark,14451926
This site has a lot of info on what's happening or not happening with broadband, also the Cable Digital News website is good for industry info.
Another good website for industry info is CED http://www.cedmagazine.com/

Laters,
Mikef5

There is "search this thread" feature at the top. It's pretty useful to weed through massive threads.

Instead of getting the PIII box, you can just split your cable and run coax directly into the tuner. That will solve the viewing of live tv problem. viewing recorded material though still is an issue. I use s-video for playback of SD material (HD material's not a problem via component - yes I'm an early adopter and that's all I've got for HD input ;-)). it's not unwatchable, but worse than I'd like.

I had a chance to get a PIII box when I swapped 6412's (I had a bad one that paused frequently on playback). Guess I should have taken it.

Best,
jeff

If all you have is component, then this is a viable option(though quite annoying). If you don't need 5.1 sound at all times, and HDMI is your best available connecting, you'd be a fool not to grab the phase III box. On my TV at least(42 inch pannasonic hd plasma) the analog picture is actually considerably BETTER than the built in cable tuner. Just making sure people get correct info on this.

If all you have is component, then this is a viable option(though quite annoying). If you don't need 5.1 sound at all times, and HDMI is your best available connecting, you'd be a fool not to grab the phase III box. On my TV at least(42 inch pannasonic hd plasma) the analog picture is actually considerably BETTER than the built in cable tuner. Just making sure people get correct info on this.

Thanks, I really appreciate the information.

Has anyone heard rumblings of new HD stations being added?