Thanks guys for the responses. At least I'll be able to watch SOME HD after my TV arrives, until I can get to Comcast for the HD box.
Chris

Toshiba, Sharp, Panny QAM tuners, dude, what are you a professional HDTV beta tester or something? :)

No, unfortunately not. :) I just happen to have a wife that REALLY enjoys her televisions ... flat panels at that. I'm not a big TV watcher, but I'm happy to oblige....

FSNBA is a Rainbow Media(Cablevision) property and is not one of the News Corp owned sports nets. DirecTV has no contract to carry the HD broadcasts of FSNBA. It's also mixed up with the no INHD problem on satellite.

Which means, anyone without INHD, like most all 550 Mhz systems, do not get to see their local teams in HD from anywhere, at any price. Now that's what I call Comcastic. :rolleyes:

That's a bummer. I am a baseball nut. (Have season tickets for A's and go to 20+ games a year. Rest given as business favors.) Hate to have to keep Comcast just for HD baseball. Since it will be several months before DISH has HD LIL and D* has an MPEG4 DVR, i've got some time to decide.
Obviously sports is a big seller. I hope this motivates the sat. companies to try and make a deal. They obviously made a deal to carry the SD version of FSNBA.

...mike

O.K. I went back several pages, but must have missed it. What version software (or is firmware the better term) are we on? PII box if that makes a diff. In the HD Recorders forum they are talking about 12.22 in various part of the country. My box says: Firmware - 09.19. Is that correct?
My clock doesn't work. It will display the correct time if you send any kind of signal to the box - but will just stay frozen there until the next time a signal is sent.
On the Okld. system.

...mike

O.K. I went back several pages, but must have missed it. What version software (or is firmware the better term) are we on? PII box if that makes a diff. In the HD Recorders forum they are talking about 12.22 in various part of the country. My box says: Firmware - 09.19. Is that correct?
My clock doesn't work. It will display the correct time if you send any kind of signal to the box - but will just stay frozen there until the next time a signal is sent.
On the Okld. system.

...mike

Phase 3 has the 12.18 and 12.22 firmware. You have a phase 2 if you have 09.19.

Has your clock ever worked? If it has, call Comcast and have them send you a "hit." If that doesn't fix it, have it replaced.

Phase 3 has the 12.18 and 12.22 firmware. You have a phase 2 if you have 09.19.

Has your clock ever worked? If it has, call Comcast and have them send you a "hit." If that doesn't fix it, have it replaced.

Thanks. The clock worked til about 10 days ago. I'll take your suggestion and ask them to beat err I mean "hit" me. Like most others, wouldn't want the box replaced because there are always unwatched programs in the box. I assume there is no kind of "hit" that can "take away" recorded programs.

...mike

Obviously sports is a big seller. I hope this motivates the sat. companies to try and make a deal. They obviously made a deal to carry the SD version of FSNBA.

...mike
In any agreement, there is equal "blame" on both sides of the table. The satcos have been trying to get those non New Corp owned FSNs but the cable companies that own them have put "excessive" demands in the carriage agreements. For example, the satcos could have the INHDs if they want, the problem is that in the contract INHD specifies that it shall be paid per digital subscriber, not per subscriber who actually would receive the channels. Since satco is 100% digital this would mean that INHD wants to be paid for every satco sub, even though only maybe 10% of the sat sub base would subscribe or even be able to get the channels.

Thanks. The clock worked til about 10 days ago. I'll take your suggestion and ask them to beat err I mean "hit" me. Like most others, wouldn't want the box replaced because there are always unwatched programs in the box. I assume there is no kind of "hit" that can "take away" recorded programs.

...mike

Actually, they do have two kinds of hits, a light one and a heavy one. The light one doesn't do anything to your recordings, settings, etc. The heavy one, on the other hand, will zap it all and make it all new. When you speak to them, be sure to tell them that you don't want to lose your recordings.

Something else you could try is to unplug the box for about 15 minutes and then plug it back in. That might just get enough recycle to fix your clock issue.

I just split my Comcast cable and plaugged half into my new Fusion 5 Lite card in my HTPC. It supports QAM, but it scans and finds no channels. Anyone have any experience with this? I guess I was just expecting plug and play, no luck.

Edit: I found a reply above with some of the channels (116, 117, etc.) Is there a comprehesive list of the Bay Area Comcast QAM channels, I mean the number, not the call letters. Thanks.

Actually, they do have two kinds of hits, a light one and a heavy one. The light one doesn't do anything to your recordings, settings, etc. The heavy one, on the other hand, will zap it all and make it all new. When you speak to them, be sure to tell them that you don't want to lose your recordings.

Something else you could try is to unplug the box for about 15 minutes and then plug it back in. That might just get enough recycle to fix your clock issue.

I am glad you posted this! Hadn't called them. I will (and should have thought of it) unplug for the 15 min. first and see what happens.
I would NOT have been a happy camper if they had zapped my recordings.

Thanks.

...mike

Now 10 min. later. I unplugged it for about 10 SECONDS. Everything works fine, including the clock! The guide will have all night to repopulate itself.
THANKS!
(Our old lst generation D* box freezes about twice a year. Unplug it for a couple seconds and it's fine again.)

I just checked to see how the 64 to 256 QAM conversion was going in Rohnert Park. It would appear that Phases 4 and 5 are now complete. Maybe we are getting closer to digital simulcast.

Here's the note I sent to Comcast this evening. I'm not too hopeful that they'll fix the problem -- and I don't think they are required to -- but I figure I might as well try -- otherwise my DVHS VCR is looking even more quaint these days.... dr1394, I hope you don't mind the verbatim quote I took from you for my email....

Recently, the 1394 output from my Motorola box has started to implement a 5C constraint that forces my 5C compliant DVHS (HiDef) recorder to downconvert content on playback:

5C can cause downconversion of recorded content via the "Image Constraint Token." It's a bit in the DTCP_descriptor sent in the stream to control the 1394 output.

The stream itself is not downconverted. It's still sent on 1394 and stored on tape as 1080i or 720p. However, when the tape is played, the analog outputs on the player are downconverted, because of the information in the Comcast signal. This was not the case until very recently.

Most likely this is not intentional. The bit itself uses negative logic (0 means "on" and 1 means "off") which tends to confuse people. Either this confusion exists in new firmware for the cable box or in the setting of the DTCP_descriptor at the head-end.

Please ask a technician to review this and advise me about a solution. Thanks!

5C most certainly can cause downconversion of recorded content. It's called the "Image Constraint Token", and it's a bit in the DTCP_descriptor sent in the stream to control the 1394 output.

The stream itself is not downconverted. It's still sent on 1394 and stored on tape as 1080i or 720p. However, when the tape is played, the analog outputs on the player are downconverted.

Most likely this is not intentional. The bit itself uses negative logic (0 means "on" and 1 means "off") which tends to confuse people. Either this confusion exists in new firmware for the cable box or in the setting of the DTCP_descriptor at the head-end.

Of course, trying to explain this to the cable company will be difficult. If you're willing to try, you'll need to speak with someone that has a clue.

Ron

Is the stream stored on the tape encrypted or is it scrambled at real time if it an attempt is made to copy it to a non-authorized device such as a computer hard-drive?

Sort of "both": 5C flags are part of the stream *and* they impact output based both on what the target device is and what the method is (firewire, component, dvi/hdmi, etc) in real time.

(background for the topic: Two weeks back my Panasonic started complaining for ABC and KQUED HD/D channels "poor signal quality" and for NBC digital channels it said "channel not available". I have limited basic cable)

Comcast has had a work order open for more than week to fix my HDTV reception problems for NBC, ABC, KQED. Today I called again and the rep essentially said 'You have limited basic and you are not expected to get any HDTV anyway..". I then showed the info on comcast.com. Then the rep said I still need the HTDV comcast box. I said ok I don't mind the $5 more and suprisingly she said Comcast will install the box tomorrow (Friday). Till now I was thinking I need to have digital classic for HDTV comcast box. I confirmed the my cable bill will be 13 something + 5.

My question is, if this is really a reception problem, will the comcast box be able to show the channels that my Panasonic HDTV QAM tuner could not show? May be the box has a built in signal ampliflier.

Can anyone around montegue/880 (san jose north) confirm they can still watch NBC, ABC and KQED directly the cable (without comcast box)?

Hi Greg, can I just buy a antenna/satellite amplier from Fry's for this? I will try that as well.

Several months ago I was getting great signal strength for digital channels directly to my Sony QAM tuner. Then one Friday, the signal strength dropped and I started getting breakups. I called Comcast, and they said "Your not getting HDTV". Rather than mess around, I just installed an amplifier I had laying around and that took care of my problem. No idea why the drop in signal strength.

Greg

Raghu,

I had an old Radio Shack RF amplifier sitting around. I plugged it in and it worked just fine. It cleared up my signal quality problems. Now I have seen posts about high quality, two-way amps that work well too. But I just had this one sitting around and it worked.

If you have any two-way devices (like cable modem) make sure the amp is not between it and the network, or get a two-way amp. You can search back in this thread for references to good amps to use.

Greg




Hi Greg, can I just buy a antenna/satellite amplier from Fry's for this? I will try that as well.

Hopefully you guys can help me. I have a couple questions...

1) Anyone know if the Livermore Comast office has the Phase 3 Motorola STBs?

2) I'm not receiving all the channels I am paying for and the Digital ones I do get are often dropping sound and are choppy visually. Here are the stats I'm showing:

Tuner 1

SNR 29.2dB POOR
AGC 87% POOR
Uncorrectable Errors: 0 Correctable: 0232

Tuner 2

SNR 0dB INVALID
AGC 0 INVALID
Uncorrectable Errors: 0 Correctable: 0

Obviously this is bad.

I do know that there are 2 2-way splitters in the cable before it reaches this room. They are most likely Radio Shack 5-550MHz splitters. Do you think replacing them with 1GHz splitters would make a big enough difference to have an effect?

When I was hooking this up for my parents it was running through 2 MORE splitters that I did away with and it made a big difference...however we still arent receiving ALL the channels we should be. Maybe I need to drop an amp in? Would that go before any splitting takes place in the line?

Till now I was thinking I need to have digital classic for HDTV comcast box. I confirmed the my cable bill will be 13 something + 5.
This is correct. With just a Basic Cable sub, you can add an HD STB for $5 more per month. To get the HD-DVR, you need to sub to Standard Cable(bas+exp) + Digital Classic.

My question is, if this is really a reception problem, will the comcast box be able to show the channels that my Panasonic HDTV QAM tuner could not show? May be the box has a built in signal ampliflier.

Have Comcast come out and try to fix the signal problem before you go the amplifier route. No sense spending money on an amp if you don't have to. There could be other issues that an amp could exacerbate instead of fixing.

Hopefully you guys can help me. I have a couple questions...

1) Anyone know if the Livermore office has the Phase 3 Motorola STBs?

2) I'm not receiving all the channels I am paying for and the Digital ones I do get are often dropping sound and are choppy visually. Here are the stats I'm showing:

Tuner 1

SNR 29.2dB POOR
AGC 87% POOR
Uncorrectable Errors: 0 Correctable: 0232

Tuner 2

SNR 0dB INVALID
AGC 0 INVALID
Uncorrectable Errors: 0 Correctable: 0

Obviously this is bad.

I do know that there are 2 2-way splitters in the cable before it reaches this room. They are most likely Radio Shack 5-550MHz splitters. Do you think replacing them with 1GHz splitters would make a big enough difference to have an effect?

When I was hooking this up for my parents it was running through 2 MORE splitters that I did away with and it made a big difference...however we still arent receiving ALL the channels we should be. Maybe I need to drop an amp in? Would that go before any splitting takes place in the line?

Yes, get some 850MHz or higher splitters and get rid of ANY unnecessary splitters in the line. Those readings indicate a very poor signal strength which could be a combination of excess splits on the line and/or not passing a high enough bandwidth.

I agree those look pretty bad. Keep in mind every 2-way split drops the signal strength around 55%. Also if you send the signal through a VCR and out, that is another split. I suggest 1GHz splitters. I'd suggest not using 2GHz splitters if you are cable only system (ie no satellite) because many 2GHz spitters have slightly worse attenuation in the 1GHz range as they are intended for satellite. Not saying it is a huge difference, but you are on the fringe already it seems (but I'm sure there are bigger fish to fry)

If you get a drop amp, I suggest one of the high quality ones like electroline.

People have said the Motorola ones are good also. The ones at the local store usually add more noise when they amplify and commonly will affect your analog channels negatively.

Also make sure your amp is bidirectional. There is a return path that is necessary for onDemand and cablemodem. If the return path is impeded then you will probably get your channels but those other features could have issues.

FWIW, I had terrible results with the Motorola and my pre install numbers were right in the range where I would have expected positive results(per Mark Jenna's figures). Could be I missed something, but making the note for a data point.

And to add one more comment...

Amplifying your signal too much can cause problems as well. I'm not sure if the Electroline has it but my Moto amplifier lets you increase/decrease the amount of amplification to get it just right.

This is the one I use and it works great,

http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/signal_booster/default.asp
Signal Booster

fender, which Motorola do you have that has an adjuster on it?

This is the one I use and it works great,

http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/signal_booster/default.asp
Signal Booster

fender, which Motorola do you have that has an adjuster on it?

My bad. I forgot -- I was going to get the Moto but ended up getting the Radio Shack bi-directional from the local store and it turned out to work just fine. http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103092&cp=2032057&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032057&categoryId=2032057&kwCatId=2032057&kw=amplifier&parentPage=search

Actually, they do have two kinds of hits, a light one and a heavy one. The light one doesn't do anything to your recordings, settings, etc. The heavy one, on the other hand, will zap it all and make it all new. When you speak to them, be sure to tell them that you don't want to lose your recordings.

Something else you could try is to unplug the box for about 15 minutes and then plug it back in. That might just get enough recycle to fix your clock issue.

Either hit will not delete recordings. Wish it did, deleting recordings adds another step to the re-issue process.

The light one 'Hit' reminds the box what it's customer is paying for and turns on the channels matching the bill.

The 'heavy hit' aka 'INT' will reset the user adjustable settings to default - favorites, audio settings, display preferences, etc. Also wipes out any parental locks. Kids, don't call in and ask for an INT - they know it's you.

My question is, if this is really a reception problem, will the comcast box be able to show the channels that my Panasonic HDTV QAM tuner could not show? May be the box has a built in signal ampliflier.


Have Comcast come out and try to fix the signal problem before you go the amplifier route. No sense spending money on an amp if you don't have to. There could be other issues that an amp could exacerbate instead of fixing.

Comcast technitian had come over two weeks back. He basically checked that signal strenth was good. He talked to his supervisor and said supervisor thinks he knows what the problem is and will have a work order placed.. but nothing happened after that. Also this HD reception problem (for ABC, KQED and NBC) occured a day after another Comcast guy installed a cable line in my bedroom week before that.

Yesterday comcast installed the HD box and it can show the HD channels from the same cable. I wonder how.

Few questions regd comcast HD box (not a HD DVR):

1. It seems too rigid: It will output only one format 720p or 1080i etc.. even for SD channels! I can't use TV's FULL or JUST mode for SD channels. There is some "zoom adjust" button on the cable remote but it does not seem to do anything. Is there an option to make the box output in the same format as the broadcast (apart from descrabling and analog/digital conversion)? Right now it is on component cables and I will try DVI next week. At least in my case I can just run cable directly to the TV and use cable box only for HD channels.

2. There is talk about newer version III HD DVR in this thread. Should I also be checking for proper version of this HD box?

Thanks,
Raghu.

I am hoping this is the right place for my question. I am using the MYHD MDP-130 which is an HDTV tuner card for a PC here in the San Jose area, south of San Francisco. (Instead of a cable box) The problem is that Comcast labels its digital channels with totally different numbers than what the MDP-130 calls them when scanning. For instance, HDTV channel 11 (NBC) is called D11-1 by the tuner card. Is there any place that lists the channels in a way that makes sense to my MDP-130? For instance, where would I look for Turner Classic Movie Channel? Comcast cable guide lists it as Ch501.

Thanks in advance, and please pardon me if this is answered somewhere else.

Peter

For instance, where would I look for Turner Classic Movie Channel? Comcast cable guide lists it as Ch501.

As far as I know, with a computer tuner, you will only get the channels that are not encrypted/scrambled. So even if you subscribe to the digital tier with TCM, you won't see it EXCEPT via a cable box or via a device with a cable card from Comcast. That limits the card to channels that are "in the clear" (analog tier, and HD/digital OTA locals).

Thanks for the reply.

That is true. Regardless, sometimes channels other than the must-carries are in the clear, and consequently I would like a listing if one exists.


As far as I know, with a computer tuner, you will only get the channels that are not encrypted/scrambled. So even if you subscribe to the digital tier with TCM, you won't see it EXCEPT via a cable box or via a device with a cable card from Comcast. That limits the card to channels that are "in the clear" (analog tier, and HD/digital OTA locals).

BBC America's website says that the "Shameless Christmas Special" will be broadcast tonight 10 - 11:30. It's not showing up at all on iGuide (and there's nothing exactly matching that timeslot). It shows up on yahoo tv as being on 9:30 - 11:00.

For those who don't know, Shamelss was a (imo) great show they broadcast earlier in the year, and I'd love to see the Christmas special.

Does anybody have any further info? For now I'm just recording hours of BBC America tonight, but I'd prefer to have some reliable info.

Thanks.

Jim

Check the BBCA web site which says 1 AM. According to Direct TV guide, it's 9:30-11 PM PST tonite on BBCA. But that is probably the EST feed so on Comcast it may not be until 3 hours later.

Anyone seeing audio breaking up every few seconds and pictures jerking?

It's been bad on the NFL broadcasts, especially Fox.

I'm getting breakups on KTVU also. KTTV-FOX-LA is fine so it's a local problem, either Comcast or KTVU.

yea the packers/bears game is horrible, drop outs every 5 seconds...

I'm getting breakups on KTVU also. KTTV-FOX-LA is fine so it's a local problem, either Comcast or KTVU.

In addition, OTA seems to be having the same issue. I'm seeing a similar problem with KPIX, not as bad though.

In addition, OTA seems to be having the same issue. I'm seeing a similar problem with KPIX, not as bad though.

I was having trouble w. KPIX HD via Comcast yesterday afternoon and night. Break ups in both audio and video lasting less than a second but repeating every minute at times. Haven't watched today.

...mike

It would appear that Comcast doesn't really have an HD PPV channel. Under the "on-demand" section when you click on "HD Movies" you get a choice of 2. One is L. of Arabia for free and the other is Lord of the Rings for $6. This hasn't changed in several months.
How is it that DBS can offer more? D* has one full time HD PPV channel. Don't know about DISH. Our BEV (Canadian DBS) box gives us the choice of FOUR HD PPV channels!
Is cable able, under current technology, able to increase their HD offerings? Will they have to do what phone companies are doing in some areas and run fiber right up to the front door? Assuming that D* (and probably DISH) will probably offer all the locals in HD (which Comcast doesn't do - not that I care about WB and UPN now that Star Trek is gone) as well as probably offering more "national" and PPV HD channels than Comcast, it would seem that by the end of 06 those of us that want more HD will have to drop Comcast and go w. another provider. The only HD Comcast has a lock on now is FSNBA.

...mike

It may turn out that Comcast's heavy investment into building up the cable systems won't pan out to be profitable and instead might lead them to bankruptcy. A lot of people I talk to aren't too happy about the 6% increase coming this January. Many look at how much they donate to Comcast monthly and want to cut that way back. As far as the HD offerings go I used to occasionally watch an HD PPV on Dish but some of those were even free with a coupon. Comcast's offering at $2 more the SD aren't don't interest me that much. When HD-DVD finally becomes available the interest may even be less though I may wait about 6 months or more to see how the connection issue shakes out. It's probably take at least 6 months for the HD-DVD offerings to be eclectic enough for my tastes. :)

There was a feature article in today's NY Times talking about HD DVD. I did not agree w. the major point made - that being if a std. (BluRay v. HDDVD isn't settled, most people won't buy and will use other methods, like VOD, to get their movies. The writer mentioned tons of people are already doing that - BUT - neglected to point our that these are primarily SD offferings.
My opinion is that once people get used to HD, they can't go back. It would appear that cable just can't deliver HD in any quantity.
The article also pointed out that people getting VOD has to make the DVD rental market somewhat at risk.
Unless the movie is a classic, i won't watch an SD movie any more. I get one premium group of channels and NEVER watch any of the SD channels, only HD.

...mike

Comcast could make money on offering SD to HD owners if they offered some of the films in anamorphic like a DVD. As it is SD has to be zoomed and the color is often off. Then the majority of their SD offerings are pan and scan too.

yea the packers/bears game is horrible, drop outs every 5 seconds...
I thought it was only me. I ended up watching most of this game in SD because it was breaking up so bad.

2006 Winter Olympics Games. Anyone know what the plans are for the upcoming Olympics? Will it all be broadcast in HD, or will we have the special feed again. I haven't read anything yet, but am looking forward to the Winter Games.

2006 Winter Olympics Games. Anyone know what the plans are for the upcoming Olympics? Will it all be broadcast in HD, or will we have the special feed again. I haven't read anything yet, but am looking forward to the Winter Games.

Check the "HDTV Programming" section here on the AVS Forum and look for the thread called "Hot Off The Press! The Latest Television News and Info". That has a complete rundown of the Olympics...(right below the HD Football schedule)... and from what they say there the HD will be live just like the analog. (It's about time!)

Larry
SF

Has anyone gotten an official answer back from Comcast as to why the guide for channel 725 lists everything as TBA? It's extremely annoying and I don't understand why they can't correct this.

Has anyone gotten an official answer back from Comcast as to why the guide for channel 725 lists everything as TBA? It's extremely annoying and I don't understand why they can't correct this.

It's an axillary HD channel they use when they have to. For example, if (on the rare occasion) FSN is showing two HD local sporting events at the same time, they'll put one on this channel.

It's an axillary HD channel they use when they have to. For example, if (on the rare occasion) FSN is showing two HD local sporting events at the same time, they'll put one on this channel.

Yea, it just seems like 80% of the time there is something on it and I don't see any good reason why comcast wouldn't know what they are going to show in advance. Given the lack of HD channels and content it's a major pain in the A$$ to not know what 9% of your options are (1/11 HD channels not counting premium).

Yea, it just seems like 80% of the time there is something on it and I don't see any good reason why comcast wouldn't know what they are going to show in advance. Given the lack of HD channels and content it's a major pain in the A$$ to not know what 9% of your options are (1/11 HD channels not counting premium).

i dunno, with that orange background, razor sharp font and 20 second techno beat loop, i have to say it is quite mesmerizing.

I once caught a neat concert on Special Events while surfing since I wasn't expecting anything to be there.

i dunno, with that orange background, razor sharp font and 20 second techno beat loop, i have to say it is quite mesmerizing.


Ah yess... thats some good forum humor right there :p

last nite (12/30) I was watching the Warriors game in HD. The picture seemed quite flawed because moving players were blurry. On a fast break directly towards the camera, for example, there were many square blocks in the images of the oncoming players.

Is this a problem due to the broadcast encoding or could there be some problem in my comcast connection or PVR?

anyone able to get a Philips 42PF7320A/37 to work with CableCard?

I'm a Comcast subscriber in San Jose, CA (95123) and getting ready for a third tech visit. They've been trying the Motorola version 04.05 card and have tried three different cards so far. The techs seem to think it's an issue with configuration at the headend.

The symptoms:

--card is inserted.
--message on display: cable card is detected
--message on display: cable card is initialized. TV is switched to tune cablecard based favorite channel list.
--Once the channel is changed from the one it was set to before installation, screen goes dark. No channels appear in the channel list. Must remove cablecard to tune in any channels.

The tech called in to have multiple hits sent, but nothing changed.

On the TV's cablecard status display, it says state: wait to start

They've loaned me a set top box, but it frequently locks up & crashes. I'd rather not have another device to control with remote. The STB window boxes some channels, so there's a burn in concern. Finally, I've read that picture quality is better with cablecard.

The last tech that was out mentioned there are some newer cablecards that work better (they've been using red labelled Motorola cards, he said the newer ones are white with blue).

Anyone have any experience troubleshooting this issue with this particular TV and cablecard combination?

If you have contact info for techs, managers or engineers that might be able to resolve or escalate appropriately, please send in a private message.

Thanks for any info you can provide!

The STB window boxes some channels, so there's a burn in concern. Finally, I've read that picture quality is better with cablecard.

Check the manual of your STB, you should be able to reset the unit to stretch 4 X 3 programming to fit you TV. That will limit the chances for burn in...

fitprod

How come the Raider game is blacked out on ESPN/Comcast, yet I can get it on both DirecTV and Dish..?

How come the Raider game is blacked out on ESPN/Comcast, yet I can get it on both DirecTV and Dish..?

It's blacked out in D* here in Pleasanton. Both Comcast and D* are blacking it out.

Paul

That's weird, I wonder why it's not blacked out on D* up here..not that I'm complaining.. :D

That's weird, I wonder why it's not blacked out on D* up here..not that I'm complaining.. :D

i would rather watch the black screen that's on my ESPNHD than the raiders

The raiders game is blacked out here too, in fact all the channels are blacked out. :-( No service (video and data) here in redwood city and parts of san carlos. The storm blew down a tree on san carlos ave cutting pole mounted comcast fiber. You should see the number of trucks out here. It's been out here since about 3 in the afternoon. it was supposed to be restored a couple hours ago, but no go.

thanks,
mike

i'm trying to record the "vertical Limit" on Fox2 now, but nothing is recorded, wondering if it's been 5C flaged "copy none"? anyone ?

Well, i think my guess is right, CBS movie also won't be recorded, guess Hollywood puts flags on all of them, u can't even live pause anymore. :mad:

I recorded Vertical Limit fine on 702 (Fox HD).

Did u try to play it back? i recorded and when playing, it's nothing. When i switch to other channel which is not broadcast movie, they are fine with recording. not sure what's going on. :mad:


I recorded Vertical Limit fine on 702 (Fox HD).

Any word on what the impact of Monday Night Football will be for us HD folks? I am guessing that using a PC to record the game in HD is now a thing of the past.

:-(

Kevin

Any word on what the impact of Monday Night Football will be for us HD folks? I am guessing that using a PC to record the game in HD is now a thing of the past.

:-(

Kevin

Yup, unless ESPN miraculously moves from cable to broadcast television (which of course will never happen). My guess is that Sunday Night Football on NBC will become the the new MNF. Analysts have already said that Sunday night is now the most watched day of the week in regards to prime time television. I can honestly say that I've watched more Sunday night games this year then Monday night. It will be interesting to see the range of matchups they'll have on the 2 nights. I wish the NFL would be more lenient in allowing a "rolling time" schedule like MLB does. This would allow the best matchup that week to be the national game. That would help especially here where we have to deal with our 2 woeful teams and usually end up missing the premier matchups.

Yup, unless ESPN miraculously moves from cable to broadcast television (which of course will never happen). My guess is that Sunday Night Football on NBC will become the the new MNF. Analysts have already said that Sunday night is now the most watched day of the week in regards to prime time television. I can honestly say that I've watched more Sunday night games this year then Monday night. It will be interesting to see the range of matchups they'll have on the 2 nights. I wish the NFL would be more lenient in allowing a "rolling time" schedule like MLB does. This would allow the best matchup that week to be the national game. That would help especially here where we have to deal with our 2 woeful teams and usually end up missing the premier matchups.
I'm 99% certain that NBC has in their contract a section about scheduling flexibility to enable them to get some good matchups, especially late in the season.

(SF is so bad they couldn't even lose yesterday to get a shot at Reggie Bush.. :p )

I'm 99% certain that NBC has in their contract a section about scheduling flexibility to enable them to get some good matchups, especially late in the season.

During the last 7 weeks of the schedule NBC can swap a morning game to an evening game so they can carry it on primetime (if the previously planned game looks like a dud).

The monday schedule remains fixed for ESPN (so you can still see losers at the end of the season). BTW, the local affliates for the two teams that are playing on monday night will be able to carry an OTA simulcast of the Monday Night game.

That's great news.

Did u try to play it back? i recorded and when playing, it's nothing. When i switch to other channel which is not broadcast movie, they are fine with recording. not sure what's going on. :mad:
Sorry - just getting back online today. Yes, the movie plays back fine. Sounds like you must have had a DVR hiccup.

Anyone have any info on what the problem is with Comcast in Los Gatos? We haven't had cable or internet for over 24 hours now. I called and talked to a CSR (I know, pretty desperate on my part), and got the normal 'we're working on it', 'it should be fixed soon', and, disturbingly, 'we are still looking for the problem'. Though, my guess is that the CSR was winging it on the last one.
Their recorded message mentions outages in Los Gatos and other cities.
Thanks.
Mike

Anyone have any info on what the problem is with Comcast in Los Gatos? We haven't had cable or internet for over 24 hours now. I called and talked to a CSR (I know, pretty desperate on my part), and got the normal 'we're working on it', 'it should be fixed soon', and, disturbingly, 'we are still looking for the problem'. Though, my guess is that the CSR was winging it on the last one.
Their recorded message mentions outages in Los Gatos and other cities.
Thanks.
Mike

Our cable/Internet was out on Saturday for about 6 hours over here in the Moraga area due to a powerline being knocked over which also took the fiber with it. My guess is that whatever's happening in your area is different, albeit caused by the same storm. If you can, drive around and try and locate one of the Comast trucks and see if they can give you a more difinitive answer.

Well, no Comcast trucks in our neighborhood. Going on 36 hours of outage, missed bowl games, and another worthless call to Comcast.
These guys could learn some valuable lessons from the other utility providers about outage response, and customer communication. Oops, they probably don't like to be called a utility provider - they are a value added provider of content....


Our cable/Internet was out on Saturday for about 6 hours over here in the Moraga area due to a powerline being knocked over which also took the fiber with it. My guess is that whatever's happening in your area is different, albeit caused by the same storm. If you can, drive around and try and locate one of the Comast trucks and see if they can give you a more difinitive answer.

Down here in the South Bay, cable Internet was down for about 10 hours on Sat. TV was never down.

Sorry to hear other folks are still down.

Well, no Comcast trucks in our neighborhood. Going on 36 hours of outage, missed bowl games, and another worthless call to Comcast.
These guys could learn some valuable lessons from the other utility providers about outage response, and customer communication. Oops, they probably don't like to be called a utility provider - they are a value added provider of content....

Once it comes back on, make sure you get retro pay for days it was out. At a minimum they should deduct your next bill for time lost. I would demand even more (like a free month) due to the fact that your missing one of the most important sporting weekends of the year.

It's kind of ironic the Comcast commericals show that having satellite is a bad idea because weather can affect reception. I don't hear any Sat customers complaining their picture's out due to this weekend's storm...

Yeah my dish has help up there (knock on wood) and we've had some pretty gusty winds the past 3 years, including this past weekend, when there were some downed trees.

I just want to see SBC/AT&T finally offer their video services. But it sounds like IPTV isn't working out as well as they expected. Too bad Verizon won't encroach on SBC's turf.

Hello,

I am located in pleasanton using a DVICO fusion 5 card to receive Comcast QAM channels. Since around 12/7, I have not been able to receive rf channel 117 which KGO and KQED resides on. Attempts at rescanning did not pick them up either. At first, I thought this was a software problem as I had just upgraded to a new version of the tuner software, but after rolling back to a working older version, the channels still could not be picked up.

Anyone else having similar problems?

It's kind of ironic the Comcast commericals show that having satellite is a bad idea because weather can affect reception. I don't hear any Sat customers complaining their picture's out due to this weekend's storm...
With as heavy as the rain was up here I never lost signal on either sat service. Lost a bunch of trees and the property is now smaller due to a raging Santa Rosa Creek, but never lost my TV signals.. :D

It's kind of ironic the Comcast commericals show that having satellite is a bad idea because weather can affect reception. I don't hear any Sat customers complaining their picture's out due to this weekend's storm...

I had D* for a couple of years here in Seattle and frequently had problems with the picture breaking up in heavy rain. The problem here was the low angle to the satellite resulted in the flat surface of the pickup being nearly horizontal, so the water beaded up instead of running off. That shouldn't be the case in the lower latitudes.

With as heavy as the rain was up here I never lost signal on either sat service. Lost a bunch of trees and the property is now smaller due to a raging Santa Rosa Creek, but never lost my TV signals.. :D


I was up at our Cabin at Tahoe-Donner and had to go out and chuck snowballs at our Dish about 2x day to clear off the snow so we could get the signal back :D

It's not an easy feat since the dish is about 30' up and you have to lob it over the edge of the roof :eek:

btw...HSI was out for about 12hr in Saratoga during the storm on Saturday....TV was fine though

I had the same problem (95134). suddenly few weeks back my TV started saying "poor signal quality" for KGO (7.1) and KQED HD (9.1) see my earlier posts. I had comcast come over but did not resolve the problem. I got comcast HD box (for $5 more) and the box is able to show these channels. My TV still can't show.

Hello,

I am located in pleasanton using a DVICO fusion 5 card to receive Comcast QAM channels. Since around 12/7, I have not been able to receive rf channel 117 which KGO and KQED resides on. Attempts at rescanning did not pick them up either. At first, I thought this was a software problem as I had just upgraded to a new version of the tuner software, but after rolling back to a working older version, the channels still could not be picked up.

Anyone else having similar problems?

I was up at our Cabin at Tahoe-Donner and had to go out and chuck snowballs at our Dish about 2x day to clear off the snow so we could get the signal back :D

It's not an easy feat since the dish is about 30' up and you have to lob it over the edge of the roof :eek:

btw...HSI was out for about 12hr in Saratoga during the storm on Saturday....TV was fine though
Losing the trees probably helped my signal reception.. :p :D

I'll take one of these, with a side of fries please... :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=625787
Motorola Introduces Home Networking STBs - AVS Forum

I'll take one of these, with a side of fries please... :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=625787
Motorola Introduces Home Networking STBs - AVS Forum

Hmmmm...I'll take 3! Wonder when/if Comcast will make these available...

Well, no Comcast trucks in our neighborhood. Going on 36 hours of outage, missed bowl games, and another worthless call to Comcast.
These guys could learn some valuable lessons from the other utility providers about outage response, and customer communication. Oops, they probably don't like to be called a utility provider - they are a value added provider of content....
Mike: Do you live east of 17? On the west side, we lost internet (but not TV) for a few hours on Saturday. I know some folks over by LG Blvd that have been w/o internet or TV since Saturday (as of this AM). Not sure what the problem is, though.

hey what gives, i lost HD on the orange bowl just as it hit OT.... arghhh

yea yea i'm lucky to even have TV after the storm...

same here....

oh well..good game...

AHHHHHHH its back.... one OT later

I know this is an old topic, but I'm curious. Does anyone know when Comcast is going to roll out their 12.22 firmware update that supposedly fixes the Dolby Digital 5.1 playback issue? I have already made a Comcast technician take note of this problem so that they can log this into their database, yet when I called back about a month later, a customer service rep says they have had no such complaints so far regarding this issue so they can't look into it until it has been reported! Where my complaint disappeared to is a mystery to me. I also find it hard to believe that no one else has called a technician over to try and resolve this issue. What I don't understand is if this is a knownn issue and has been fixed with the 12.22 firmware update in other areas of the country, why is Comcast in the Bay Area acting like this is a surprise to them? I can't even use the temporary resolution which is to use the Component out instead of the HDMI because I only have two component inputs on my receiver and they're already used up. I am forced to use the HDMI out to my TV. Okay, I'm off my soap box, for the time being...

I know this is an old topic, but I'm curious. Does anyone know when Comcast is going to roll out their 12.22 firmware update that supposedly fixes the Dolby Digital 5.1 playback issue? I have already made a Comcast technician take note of this problem so that they can log this into their database, yet when I called back about a month later, a customer service rep says they have had no such complaints so far regarding this issue so they can't look into it until it has been reported! Where my complaint disappeared to is a mystery to me. I also find it hard to believe that no one else has called a technician over to try and resolve this issue. What I don't understand is if this is a knownn issue and has been fixed with the 12.22 firmware update in other areas of the country, why is Comcast in the Bay Area acting like this is a surprise to them? I can't even use the temporary resolution which is to use the Component out instead of the HDMI because I only have two component inputs on my receiver and they're already used up. I am forced to use the HDMI out to my TV. Okay, I'm off my soap box, for the time being...

i also had a tech over, he just looked confused, said it was a new box so there are always issues...... (groan)...... and gave me three pay-per-view coupons, the non-adult, non-HD, non-sports variety!! thanks a lot for nothing.

anyway the CSR that told you there has been no complaints are lying, its a very known issue, just don't know when the fix is coming.

lets just keep hammering them until they can't stand it anymore.

Hmmmm...I'll take 3! Wonder when/if Comcast will make these available...

Probably not for awhile around here. The Bay Area market is dilberately avoided for new product releases and testing.

Thanks,
Mike

i also had a tech over, he just looked confused, said it was a new box so there are always issues...... (groan)...... and gave me three pay-per-view coupons, the non-adult, non-HD, non-sports variety!! thanks a lot for nothing.

anyway the CSR that told you there has been no complaints are lying, its a very known issue, just don't know when the fix is coming.

lets just keep hammering them until they can't stand it anymore.

Actually my tech never really made it to my house. He called me just prior to his visit and I described to him my symptoms. He said he was aware of that issue but couldn't do anything to remedy it. All he did was log my complaint. Of course I could always go back to the older 6412 Phase II model which has the DVI out, but I would get sub-par SD analog PQ and lose all of my HD recorded shows!

Probably not for awhile around here. The Bay Area market is dilberately avoided for new product releases and testing.

Thanks,
Mike
Yes, and we wear that scarlet letter proudly.. :D

Yes, and we wear that scarlet letter proudly.. :D

why is that? why can't we be guinea pigs? are we too picky? i'd love to try out new things.... :\

why is that? why can't we be guinea pigs? are we too picky? i'd love to try out new things.... :\
Part but not all of the reason I'm sure, is that we are too picking and vocal about issues. The Comcast subs in the bay area have some fairly good contacts with the local media and in the past Comcast has received some not so nice coverage.

Plus the systems here I believe are a combination of different equipment from different previous providers, IOW, Comcast did not "build it" from the ground up

Does any one find that their TV and cable box lose their handshake? I switched to a phase III box about a month ago and use a hdmi cable to the tv. Sometimes when I use the 30- second skip button several times in a row, the tv picture goes dark (but side stripes appear, so the tv is still on). Turning the set off and back on fixes it.

Does anyone know which HD channels are on 16-QAM, which are on 256-QAM etc in your area? My area is aroudn Motegue and Zanker (95134). I read that 256-QAM pack more data and thus probably more prone to bit loss. How do you find about those?

thanks,
Raghu.

Does anyone know which HD channels are on 16-QAM, which are on 256-QAM etc in your area? My area is aroudn Motegue and Zanker (95134). I read that 256-QAM pack more data and thus probably more prone to bit loss. How do you find about those?

thanks,
Raghu.
All HD channels are 256QAM.

Part but not all of the reason I'm sure, is that we are too picking and vocal about issues. The Comcast subs in the bay area have some fairly good contacts with the local media and in the past Comcast has received some not so nice coverage.

Plus the systems here I believe are a combination of different equipment from different previous providers, IOW, Comcast did not "build it" from the ground up

You are correct. A problem with a new product like the DVR here generates bad press accounts that are picked up by financial analysts as well as depress local demand for the product. Part of the reason is that a lot of product vendors are located here (e.g. Tivo), so for example when the 6412's first came out, Tivo made a lot of hay about the problem and offered special discounts to comcast customers.

This sort of thng doesn't happen in Dallas and Seattle, where a lot of new services are tested. The local press there also seems to be much more indifferent to technology issues.

I don't think it's related to the way th various systems were built, at least not anymore. AT&T/Comcast has rebuilt most of the old stuff, and the fiber rings from the old TCI and Viacom networks have been integrated and supplemented. We have a few 550 Mhz systems left over because of delays during the rebuild phase, but I don't think that's driving product decisions to any great extent, modulo the issue of the 550 Mhz folks complaining to the press when Comcast rolls out a new product or program option to the 750Mhz+ systems. You don't get complaints if you don't turn on new stuff!

Thanks,
Mike

John
I always get confused by the NSEW thing. If Hwy 17 goes to the Ocean it must go west, right? Wrong, it goes south. Anyway, we are at the eastern edge of Los Gatos, in fact, San Jose is literally across the street. Our TV and internet was out from Sun early morning until Tues mid day, and again very early this morning.
Mike

Mike: Do you live east of 17? On the west side, we lost internet (but not TV) for a few hours on Saturday. I know some folks over by LG Blvd that have been w/o internet or TV since Saturday (as of this AM). Not sure what the problem is, though.

From Comcast PR,

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=147565&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=800562&highlight=
Comcast - Press Room - Press Release

Panasonic and Comcast Announce Industry-First Agreement for Enhanced OCAP HD-DVR Set-Top Boxes and OCAP Software License

Collaboration to simplify and enhance the home entertainment experience with seamless integration of digital cable set-top boxes and CE devices

Las Vegas, NV (January 4, 2006) --- Panasonic, the principal U.S. subsidiary of Matsushita Electric Industrial Co., Ltd. (NYSE: MC), and Comcast Corporation (NASDAQ: CMCSK, CMCSA) today announced the industry's first agreement for the manufacture and deployment of Comcast's new series of digital cable set-top boxes, referred to as "RNG." These set- top boxes will be compliant with the OpenCableT Application Platform (OCAPT) specifications. In another industry first, the companies have agreed to make Panasonic's OCAP middleware available to Comcast, as well as to jointly explore and develop extensions to the OCAP specifications. The new boxes and software will improve and simplify the consumer's home entertainment experience.

Under the agreement, Panasonic will supply Comcast with advanced digital cable set-top boxes with the processing power and advanced functionality that enables the kind of performance, flexibility and ease of use that consumers want. The Panasonic digital set-top boxes will have high-definition digital video recording (DVR) capabilities with a minimum of 250 GB storage capacity, which essentially doubles the amount of DVR storage currently available on Comcast DVR set-top boxes. In addition, these boxes will have both MPEG-2 and H.264 decoder capabilities. The H.264 capabilities will offer higher video compression rates and could let consumers use their televisions to enjoy media elements commonly available on the Internet.

The new set-top boxes are the result of Comcast's efforts to develop next-generation devices that bring greater efficiencies to today's cable infrastructure, while adding advanced functionality such as USB 2.0 that will let consumers connect other media devices, such as digital cameras or music players, to their televisions. Panasonic will manufacture and supply Comcast with 250,000 HD-DVR set-top boxes. Comcast will have the option to acquire up to a total of one million set-top boxes in the first year, with options for additional boxes in subsequent years. The initial 250,000 set-top boxes will be supplied with Panasonic's OCAP middleware.

OCAP is a middleware software standard that enables application developers to create new interactive services that will run on a broad range of advanced digital set top boxes and cable-ready TVs. Among the OCAP software extensions the companies will develop are those that enable Comcast-deployed set-top boxes to easily interact with a wide variety of Panasonic Consumer Electronics (CE) devices - such as plasma TVs, home theater systems and DVD recorders - that will be equipped with Panasonic's HDAVI Control capability. HDAVI Control capability will let consumers activate and operate all devices in a home theater, including the digital cable set-top, with a single remote and through a unified user interface.

"Panasonic's goal is to make the home cable environment friendly to networked consumer electronics," said Yoshi Yamada, Chairman and CEO of Panasonic Corporation of North America. "Panasonic and Comcast are not just talking about it. We are delivering on the promise that the digital future will be easy to use."

Brian Roberts, Chairman and CEO of Comcast, said, "Comcast is pleased to take this groundbreaking step with Panasonic toward offering products that deliver sophisticated yet simple interactive digital services. This partnership, the first of its kind in the industry, and the technological advances it supports, will enhance the consumers' viewing experiences by letting them control their home theater experience with one remote and is an important next step in our efforts to make OCAP a reality."

Currently, operating a cable set-top box with CE devices requires individual remote controls and uses multiple user interfaces. With the new OCAP-enabled interactive digital devices, Comcast customers will be able to control the functions of their digital cable set-top boxes and Panasonic home theater equipment with HDAVI Control capability through a single remote control and interface. The companies also expect to work together to jointly develop future consumer applications.

Panasonic and Comcast will demonstrate the OCAP-home theater implementation at the Panasonic booth (#9405, Main Hall) in the Las Vegas Convention Center during the 2006 International Consumer Electronics Show, January 5-8, 2006.

Cool press release. One could only hope!

By the way, I decided to give Comcast "Video on Demand" a try last weekend. There's hardly anything worth watching other than a bunch of 20-30 year old movies in SD. I hit a couple of the concerts, and they turned out to be two songs per show plus several minutes worth of advertising for some Batman movie that's available On Demand for a fee! Big whoop-de-doo. Time for Google or Apple to march into the video on demand arena and set the tone, I guess.

Try the VOD pay movie section. In Seattle we've had some old FREE HD (but not OAR) movies there for months, such as "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" and a two part "Lawrence of Arabia".

From Comcast PR,

Panasonic will manufacture and supply Comcast with 250,000 HD-DVR set-top boxes. Comcast will have the option to acquire up to a total of one million set-top boxes in the first year, with options for additional boxes in subsequent years. The initial 250,000 set-top boxes will be supplied with Panasonic's OCAP middleware.

Comcast has about 21 million customers nationwide so the initial deployment will only reach a maximum of about 4% of the people. I wouldn't expect that 4% to come here any time soon. This sounds a lot like the Moxi/Microsoft deal that (as far as I know) hasn't reached outside of the Seattle area.

Comcast has about 21 million customers nationwide so the initial deployment will only reach a maximum of about 4% of the people. I wouldn't expect that 4% to come here any time soon. This sounds a lot like the Moxi/Microsoft deal that (as far as I know) hasn't reached outside of the Seattle area.
Plus, it's being announced at CES time so at this point it's just a lot of vaporware basically. A lot of stuff gets announced this time of the year that never sees the light of day, or an anticipated release date goes from Q2/06 to sometime in 2007. A lot of huffing and puffing from the CE companies.

Try the VOD pay movie section. In Seattle we've had some old FREE HD (but not OAR) movies there for months, such as "Close Encounters of the Third Kind" and a two part "Lawrence of Arabia".

I just rechecked our free HD VOD offerings and we now have "Close Encounters" and "Jerry Maguire".

I just rechecked our free HD VOD offerings and we now have "Close Encounters" and "Jerry Maguire".

Here in the Bay Area (at least in my area) we have The Fifth Element as our free HD VOD movie. While you may not like this movie, visually it looks fantastic in HD.

So after a month of having no tv I'm finally backup and running. It all started with the bulb blowing after 10,000 hours ( nice bulb :) ) but the replacement bulb blew after only 4 months so Panasonic wanted the set checked out for any problems. Seems I had bad ballast, so they replaced that, then it seems the power supply was bad, so they replaced that. Now all's running well except by 6412 box decided to smoke again ( second box to do this :( ) but I now have another phase III box and again all is up and running ( knock on wood ). I am so glad 2005 is over, hopefully this year will be better :D .

Any way it seems nothing has changed since last year, SaraMilgatos is still at 550 Mhz and no new channels have been added but they are suppose to take one away. Doesn't seem that digital simulcasting has started either, I can't believe this is taking so long to do or so hard to do. I wonder if Mr. J is back from vacation ??? Time to send out my monthly email. So if anyone has a question that they would like for me to relay to Mr. J. let me know and I'll pass it on to him, might as well start his New Year off right ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

I searched this thread until my eyes glazed over, but couldn't find if anyone asked this question:

Does anyone know how to manually force an update for the Comcast Guide via the DCT6412 III DVR? Anything after 9pm tonight is showing that lovely "To Be Announced", and I'm wondering how I can schedule a show that starts 4pm tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

I searched this thread until my eyes glazed over, but couldn't find if anyone asked this question:

Does anyone know how to manually force an update for the Comcast Guide via the DCT6412 III DVR? Anything after 9pm tonight is showing that lovely "To Be Announced", and I'm wondering how I can schedule a show that starts 4pm tomorrow.

Thanks in advance.

Unplugging the unit and plugging it back in will clear the guide an re-download. Keep in mind though, it could take a few hours for it to fully populate.

Unplugging the unit and plugging it back in will clear the guide an re-download. Keep in mind though, it could take a few hours for it to fully populate.

Thanks fender! :)

Just curious--Does anyone happen to know how often the guide is supposed to be updated? Also, how far in advance is it supposed to display show information?

[If these questions belong in a different forum, please accept my apology. However, if you could let me know where I'm supposed to go, I'd appreciate it.]

5C most certainly can cause downconversion of recorded content. It's called the "Image Constraint Token", and it's a bit in the DTCP_descriptor sent in the stream to control the 1394 output.

The stream itself is not downconverted. It's still sent on 1394 and stored on tape as 1080i or 720p. However, when the tape is played, the analog outputs on the player are downconverted.

Most likely this is not intentional. The bit itself uses negative logic (0 means "on" and 1 means "off") which tends to confuse people. Either this confusion exists in new firmware for the cable box or in the setting of the DTCP_descriptor at the head-end.

Of course, trying to explain this to the cable company will be difficult. If you're willing to try, you'll need to speak with someone that has a clue.

Ron

Trying to get to someone that has a "clue" via the phone has proved problematic. I've also tried via email and online chat. One email indicated that engineering would talk to me, but no dice so far.

Here is a typical exchange. (I've removed last names and the chat ID, to protect the privacy of those involved.)


LiveAssist Transcript
Problem : Cable TV/General Inquiry

Shanna > Thank you for contacting Comcast Cable TV Customer Support, My name is Shanna. How may I assist you today?

Nathan > Hi

Shanna > Hello.

Nathan > I'm having some trouble with my Firewire output. Shall I describe it?

Shanna > Please.

Nathan > Ok: Recently, the 1394 output from my Motorola box has started to implement a 5C constraint that forces my 5C compliant DVHS (HiDef) recorder to downconvert content on playback. I can describe this "5C constraint". Shall I?

Shanna > I do not need you to explain "5C constraint" to me. What I can do for you is get a technician out there for you. When sending a technician out there for you, I do have to let you know that if the issue is Non-Comcast related you will have to pay a service call charge in the amount of $49.99. Would you like me to get that scheduled for you at this time?

Nathan > Thanks, I already spoke to a customer service rep before, and it was determined that it's a setting at the "head end", rather than at my home. There is an "Image Constraint Token" (it's a bit in the DTCP_descriptor sent in thestream to control the 1394 output). And that token is set at the Comcast office/facility/head end.

Shanna > At this time I do not show that there is a service call set up on your account for you. Who did you speak with that said it was going to be escalated and resolved at the "head end"?

Nathan > I spoke with Tamra on Dec 22, who indicated it was being escalated to engineering.

Shanna > From the symptoms that you are experiencing, I feel it would be best that we send a technician to your home at this time. If that technician finds the same as you have explained to me, they will then escalate it to the correct department to get the issue resolved. Did you want me to get that scheduled for you at this time?

Shanna > If you are still with me please let me know so that I do not have to disconnect this chat due to inactivity. If I do not receive a response from you within the next minute I will disconnect this chat session.

Nathan > My concern is: 1) It has already been escalated to engineering, more than two weeks ago. 2) I know that my system is working fine. (We determined this by viewing the diagnostics, and the behavior is

Nathan > expected.)

Shanna > At this time, there is not an active ticket on your account. If you would like to wait for the issue to be resolved from the escalation you can. But I am suggesting that we get a technician out there for you so that it can be looked at from your side, and then escalated if need be.

Nathan > Can you create a ticket? The last email I got indicated that it was in process.

Shanna > Based on what you have described to me, I will not be able to create a ticket that will get the issue up to the engineering department. If I create a ticket with the information you have given to me, I can almost guarantee that it would be closed out. That is why I am suggesting that I get a technician out there to look at the issue at your home, and then be escalated that way if the technician is not able to resolve the issue for you.

Nathan > Okay, I understand. Here is the additional information that make a difference -- so that the ticket would not be closed out right away:

Nathan > Most likely the change in Firewire output was not intentional. The bit that have been changed is weird: it uses negative logic (0 means "on" and 1 means "off") which tends to confuse people. Either this confusion exists in new firmware for the cable box or in the setting of the DTCP_descriptor at the head-end.

Nathan > Note: The stream itself is not downconverted. It's still sent on 1394 (firwire) and stored on tape as 1080i or 720p. However, when the tape is played, the analog outputs on the player are downconverted, because of the information in the Comcast signal. This was not the case until very recently.

Nathan > I'm confident that if an engineer familiar with 5C encryption reviews this ticket, they will not close it out, unless Comcast policy about component video downconversion on external 5C compliant devices has changed.

Shanna > The issue with creating a ticket is that I am not going to be able to get a ticket up to the engineering department. If I create a ticket it goes to a level above me and they would not be able to fix this issue. I appreciate all of the information on this issue that you have gathered, but the best way to get this issue resovled for you would be to get a technician out there for you, and then that technician will be able to escalate this issue to the correct department, wether it be line, engineering, premise etc.

Nathan > My concern is that if this is a policy change on the part of Comcast, then it may be considered "no problem" during an onsite visit. That is, it would be "working correctly" and the visit would cost us all (Comcast and me) time and money.

Shanna > Would you lilke to wait a little bit to see if this issue was indeed escalated to the correct department by the previous agent, and will be resolved? Or would you like for me to get a technician out there for you?

Nathan > I don't mind waiting a bit to learn the status of the previous discussion with Tamra. Thanks!

Shanna > You're welcome. Is there anything else I can assist you with today?

Nathan > Is it possible for you to check with Tamra?

Shanna > Tamra is not in my office with me, but I can escalate this issue to the proper management to see if they would be able to get in touch with her. But I can not guarantee that we would be able to find her with only the first name. I would be more than happy to escalate this though, if you would like me to?

Nathan > Yes, please. Thanks.

Shanna > My pleasure. Did you have any further questions for me?

Nathan > Is there any ticket # or tracking # for the escalation?

Shanna > I am going to just pass this chat session onto my supervisor. There is not a tracking number for that issue.

Nathan > Okay, I understand. Can you tell me your supervisor's name, in case I need to follow up?

Shanna > Sure. My supervisor's name is Paige.

Nathan > Okay, thanks.

Shanna > My pleasure. Thank you for choosing Comcast as your Cable TV provider and have a great evening. Should you require any assistance in the future, please chat with us again. Customer Service Specialists are available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Shanna > Analyst has closed chat and left the room

Trying to get to someone that has a "clue" via the phone has proved problematic. I've also tried via email and online chat. One email indicated that engineering would talk to me, but no dice so far.

Here is a typical exchange. (I've removed last names and the chat ID, to protect the privacy of those involved.)

That sucks. It might be worth it to just have a tech come out so it can go through the "proper channels" -- probably be faster. It's obviously not your issue so I wouldn't worry about the $50 charge.

I would just schedule the session with the tech to come out. As long as you have recordings prior to 5c to compare against post 5c, you can show that this was working before and the technician should agree that it is a problem on their end. If they try to pin a $49.99 visit fee on you, you have a leg to stand on. In my experience, the visit fee is their way of weeding out needless calls, most of them being inside wiring issues that the user created. If you have a real technical issue that is complicated, they don't usually charge that fee.

Time to send out my monthly email. So if anyone has a question that they would like for me to relay to Mr. J. let me know and I'll pass it on to him, might as well start his New Year off right ;)

Laters,
Mikef5
You know, the usual... :p

Oh, and that other "thing" you mentioned..

I guess I may do that when I have time to stay home from work, later this month. If I get any further, I'll post about that.

Is anyone else experiencing this?

So if anyone has a question that they would like for me to relay to Mr. J. let me know and I'll pass it on to him

I'd love to know if the 5C change in San Jose is deliberate/reversible.

Some of the features:

- 2 cable card slots
- dual tuner (has 2 cable tuners, 2 NTSC tuners, and 2 ATSC tuners)
- front LED display that shows what programs are on each active tuner
- backlit remote
- MPEG-2, MPEG-4, and H.264 support

There's a quick review here: http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html along with high resolution pictures here: http://www.megazone.org.nyud.net:8090/Photos/CES2006/TiVo/

Tivo says they're on track to release the second half of this year. Even though Comcast may offer the modified Tivo software on the Moto boxes by the end of this year, I would more inclined to spend the money on this box. I know it's pretty much vaporware right now, I'm hoping Tivo will come through.

Thanks fender! :)

Just curious--Does anyone happen to know how often the guide is supposed to be updated? Also, how far in advance is it supposed to display show information?

That's a good question. I'm not sure how often the guide gets updated...my guess would be a few times a day. Barovelli will probably be able to answer this.

As for how long the guide goes out, it usually varies. Right now, my guide goes out 14 days for all channels and some of the channels go out 15 days.

That's a good question. I'm not sure how often the guide gets updated...my guess would be a few times a day. Barovelli will probably be able to answer this.

As for how long the guide goes out, it usually varies. Right now, my guide goes out 14 days for all channels and some of the channels go out 15 days.

I once checked all models for days of guide info and made up a cheat sheet for the call center. I found:

DCT2000 5 days
DCT2500 5 days
DCT5100 5 days
DCT6200 5 days

DCT6412 15 days

Guide data is constant. You can look up a diagnostic and watch the packet counts - something done when we are impatient and HAVE to know if a box is loading.

Some of the features:

- 2 cable card slots
- dual tuner (has 2 cable tuners, 2 NTSC tuners, and 2 ATSC tuners)
- front LED display that shows what programs are on each active tuner
- backlit remote
- MPEG-2, MPEG-4, and H.264 support

There's a quick review here: http://www.tivolovers.com/252572.html along with high resolution pictures here: http://www.megazone.org.nyud.net:8090/Photos/CES2006/TiVo/

Tivo says they're on track to release the second half of this year. Even though Comcast may offer the modified Tivo software on the Moto boxes by the end of this year, I would more inclined to spend the money on this box. I know it's pretty much vaporware right now, I'm hoping Tivo will come through.
Was there any price mentioned? Something tells me this box is going to fairly expensive, probably twice what the 6412 runs. In fact I'll bet this thing is easily $1000.

Was there any price mentioned? Something tells me this box is going to fairly expensive, probably twice what the 6412 runs. In fact I'll bet this thing is easily $1000.

I didn't see nor hear of a price, but i would be suprised if this is really upwards of $1000 -- if this replaces their current model Tivo. I don't see how they can go from $49 (the current price AR) up to $1000. Unless they plan on releasing multiple versions to hanle the lower-end market, I just don't see how they would be able to sell this to the mass market. Unless they change their subscription model and maybe require a longer comitment so they can recoup the costs??

I didn't see nor hear of a price, but i would be suprised if this is really upwards of $1000 -- if this replaces their current model Tivo. I don't see how they can go from $49 (the current price AR) up to $1000. Unless they plan on releasing multiple versions to hanle the lower-end market, I just don't see how they would be able to sell this to the mass market. Unless they change their subscription model and maybe require a longer comitment so they can recoup the costs??

From a different article:

TiVo is not commenting yet on price, but if the DirecTV HD TiVo is an indication, retail prices will be in the US$700-$1000 range, although how a company like Comcast will handle this remains to be seen. They may choose to simply rent the units out, or they may bundle them with service contracts.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060106-5915.html

So after a month of having no tv I'm finally backup and running. It all started with the bulb blowing after 10,000 hours ( nice bulb :) ) but the replacement bulb blew after only 4 months so Panasonic wanted the set checked out for any problems. Seems I had bad ballast, so they replaced that, then it seems the power supply was bad, so they replaced that. Now all's running well except by 6412 box decided to smoke again ( second box to do this :( ) but I now have another phase III box and again all is up and running ( knock on wood ). I am so glad 2005 is over, hopefully this year will be better :D .
I guess I'm you about 2 weeks ago. I've got a service guy coming out in about 2 weeks. I suspect ballast issues (bulb is OK). Did you have in-home service, and if so, did the tech have a replacement ballast with him? I'm afraid the guy is going to get here, tell me the ballast is bad, and then say he has to order a new one and it'll take 2 weeks. Seems the folks who schedule the appointments have no way of communicating any technical details to the folks who actually fix the sets. Very frustrating...

From a different article:

TiVo is not commenting yet on price, but if the DirecTV HD TiVo is an indication, retail prices will be in the US$700-$1000 range, although how a company like Comcast will handle this remains to be seen. They may choose to simply rent the units out, or they may bundle them with service contracts.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20060106-5915.html

The HD Tivo price reference is a poor one. That technology is now several years old and chipsets have improved dramatically. While I don't know of a specific part number, my guess is you'll find a Broadcom processor that can handle all of those decoding standards within a single chip. Add in some tuners and a little glue and it's quite possible that the new Tivo box can be produced for half or less of what the older HD Tivo was done at and that includes more disk storage today.

I guess I'm you about 2 weeks ago. I've got a service guy coming out in about 2 weeks. I suspect ballast issues (bulb is OK). Did you have in-home service, and if so, did the tech have a replacement ballast with him? I'm afraid the guy is going to get here, tell me the ballast is bad, and then say he has to order a new one and it'll take 2 weeks. Seems the folks who schedule the appointments have no way of communicating any technical details to the folks who actually fix the sets. Very frustrating...

I had to have the Tv picked up so they could do the testing so it was physically gone. I'm pretty sure that most repair shops don't keep parts in stock, that was the main delay with my set, waiting for the parts. Hope it's just the ballast and not something worse and make sure you bug them at least once a week to get a status of the repair job. I think one of the other problems with my set was that it was being repaired under warranty and they seem to place those jobs on the low priority list. Hope things work out for you.

Laters,
Mikef5

IME, vendors will send out refurbished parts for set repairs. If they send out a part that either wasn't the problem or wasn't repaired correctly, then you spend weeks in downtime. Had this happen with a Sharp LCD. In the end, they just replaced the whole set.

I've had a few service call experiences within the last 60 days with about 4 different vendors. Samsung was the best by a large margin, while the guys contracted for HP were near comical. Show up in response to a "no picture" service call without so much as a screw driver??? Umm, OK.

It's interesting to see how the service side is handled and it's clear that some of these approaches are highly inefficient.

The HD Tivo price reference is a poor one. That technology is now several years old and chipsets have improved dramatically. While I don't know of a specific part number, my guess is you'll find a Broadcom processor that can handle all of those decoding standards within a single chip. Add in some tuners and a little glue and it's quite possible that the new Tivo box can be produced for half or less of what the older HD Tivo was done at and that includes more disk storage today.
From the link fender posted,

I also got a bit more info, the chipset used in the Series2 supports VC-1 (aka WMV9) and MPEG-4 AVC/H.264, along with MPEG-2, so it has all the same codecs as HD-DVD or Blu-ray. When I asked if it was using a Broadcomm chip I was told that would be a good guess.

I haven't read the whole thing but am I correct in assuming this is a third party consumer product, as opposed to a Comcast provided piece of equipment..? That's how I'm reading it so far anyway.

I hope this one actually sees the light of day as a similar product was mentioned a year ago and never materialized.

Nice looking unit,
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Series3-front-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/Series3-back-3.jpg

When I first got my Mits there was a problem with the CableCARD input board, which handles other duties as well, but we went through the original, the replacement and finally the third was the charm. Mits was very efficient though, the whole process took about a week and a half. I was impressed. In fact, they even called me twice to make sure the work had been done and satisfactorily.

Comcast doesn't build hardware and AFAIK, neither does Tivo. When you start talking hundreds of thousands of units you have to work with a contract manufacturer to produce that sort of volume.

CMs these days have the resources that can literally take a concept scrawled on a cocktail napkin and deliver a boxed product to the warehouse address of your choice. Engineering, fabrication and distribution in one stop shopping.

What do they charge for the cablecard? I was told it would be $6.95/mo. plus $15 to install. Other Comcast subs on east coast say they are not charged monthly. There's a discussion over at TiVo community in the Series 3 thread.

Thanks for posting the pics, Keenan.

The one major feature I forgot to add was the external SATA which Tivo says will be active/usable at launch. The way the Tivo FS works is that when an external drive is hooked up, the machine basically "RAID's" itself to make the internal and external drive look like one big drive. When you disconnect the drive, it will then remove/hide the shows that have bits on the external drive.

Is this a standalone Tivo or the one that Comcast was going to offer?

There are still reports of all kinds of bugs in the HD250 thread so I don't know about Tivo any more.

Especially their dog slow menus and slow operations like adding Season Passes.

For $1000, even an MCE/Viiv is sounding okay. I know at last CES, they boasted about fast menus.

Can anyone tell me what I need to do about getting a 5.1 surround signal out of my 6142 II cable box.? I at one time used to get a 5.1 signal (dolby digital) , and everytime you changed the channel you would see the signal change on the receiver. I have the optical cable running out of the comcast box to my receiver. But recently when I tried to change the channel, the cable box was going thru a pretty good long stutter and then popped and cracked a little......then turned itself off....and then back on and now there is no 5.1. All I get is pro-logic sound on all channels. I really hate to exchane my phase II box for the new phase III because of all the audio HDMI problems I've heard here.

Is this a standalone Tivo or the one that Comcast was going to offer?

There are still reports of all kinds of bugs in the HD250 thread so I don't know about Tivo any more.

Especially their dog slow menus and slow operations like adding Season Passes.

For $1000, even an MCE/Viiv is sounding okay. I know at last CES, they boasted about fast menus.

Comcast was never intending to offer "a Tivo" per se. The plan all along was to integrate some of the Tivo UI into a Comcast offered box. That could mean any number of things, but there was never any plan to my knowledge to simply offer a Tivo box through Comcast.

This box could influence those earlier announcements. But keep in mind, Tivo in the past has played hardball in negotiations with vendors. Perhaps they just price themselves out of contention? From initial reports this looks like a strong piece of hardware, and if it is that puts them in a position of strength in negotiations. Remains to be seen how they use that strength.

If the cable card 2.0 spec rolls out as planned, and that's far from a given at this point, then perhaps we as Comcast customers will get the option to use this box whether Comcast offers it directly or not.

If the cable card 2.0 spec rolls out as planned, and that's far from a given at this point, then perhaps we as Comcast customers will get the option to use this box whether Comcast offers it directly or not.
That's what I was getting at earlier, I seriously doubt this box will be offered by Comcast, (e.g. 6412), but it will be something purchased at a Best Buy. One initial problem I see with this box is the cost of the CableCARDS. At Comcast's current rate of $6.95 per additional outlet you're looking at $14 a month just to use the box. OTOH, you wouldn't need the Comcast provided DVR which is about $10 a month. Plus, the functionality of the box may depend a lot on how much functionality Comcast will allow, the SATA port for an external drive being one as they have already said they are not supporting it on their own boxes from Motorola. Presumably with OCAP many of these issues would be resolved although that doesn't guarantee Comcast with authorize the box for usage.

That first cable card should be free. If it isn't, Comcast has your billing configured wrong. I had to chase them on that.

Then, as you note, you'll escape their captive DVR rental charge. That's what makes the Tivo product interesting. It has the "hook" of getting you around at least part of the recurring monthly fees and the cable card spec is facilitating their marketing efforts.

Looks to me like they did their homework. Remains to be seen if the UI has addressed some of the earlier issues(ie. slow menu performance), but it will certainly win some of the diehard Tivo fans immediately.

You know, one can rent a $10 / month box for 8.3 years before they spend the estimated $1000 for the new TIVO box. That is a long time in technology.

Greg

You know, one can rent a $10 / month box for 8.3 years before they spend the estimated $1000 for the new TIVO box. That is a long time in technology.

That's very true, which is why I don't see how Tivo would be able to offer it at this price without some sort of other incentive. I am willing, however, to spend a few bucks more to get the added functionality that Tivo may give me (i.e. expanded hard drive and networking capabilities).

That first cable card should be free. If it isn't, Comcast has your billing configured wrong. I had to chase them on that.


You're right, first one should be free, I was thinking of a STB plus the 2-card TiVo situation, forgetting that the STB will not be needed.

On a different note, I just got my Comcast bill today and it increased 7 dollars over the previous month. I knew the rates were going up as they do every January, but man that's quite a jump. Just thought I'd share.

same here, that's another STB!!

On a different note, I just got my Comcast bill today and it increased 7 dollars over the previous month. I knew the rates were going up as they do every January, but man that's quite a jump. Just thought I'd share.
Now count how many extra HD channels you are receiving since Jan 1st :(

You know, one can rent a $10 / month box for 8.3 years before they spend the estimated $1000 for the new TIVO box. That is a long time in technology.

Greg

But, unlike Comcast's own box, you can move or switch to OTA, and with the TiVo box you'll still have all the same functionality--admittedly with different channels. I've been wondering about getting the D* HD-TiVo, and then using it for just OTA after the MPEG4 transition. But, with this box, I could keep an OTA PVR, and even use Comcast if it every has a package I would want.

I had a strange problem happen a few days ago, and I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else. My HD DVR box, which I've had for over a year, suddenly has lost the abiltiy to display any functions. I can watch TV fine, but I can't access the onscreen guide, the DVR menu, or even see the channel displayed on the TV screen when I switch channels. If, for example, I press the "My DVR" button, I see the yellow light flash on the lower right of the LED box of the STB, but nothing displays on the TV screen. Nothing. I am able to pause, rewind, etc if I'm watching live TV, but there is no display on the TV showing the function graphic. The folks at comcast say this can't be fixed, and I need to exchange the box for a new one. Bummer, since I have some shows recorded that I never got to see...

I had a strange problem happen a few days ago, and I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else. My HD DVR box, which I've had for over a year, suddenly has lost the abiltiy to display any functions. I can watch TV fine, but I can't access the onscreen guide, the DVR menu, or even see the channel displayed on the TV screen when I switch channels. If, for example, I press the "My DVR" button, I see the yellow light flash on the lower right of the LED box of the STB, but nothing displays on the TV screen. Nothing. I am able to pause, rewind, etc if I'm watching live TV, but there is no display on the TV showing the function graphic. The folks at comcast say this can't be fixed, and I need to exchange the box for a new one. Bummer, since I have some shows recorded that I never got to see...

Probably a stupid question, but have you power cycled the box?

I had a strange problem happen a few days ago, and I'm wondering if this has happened to anyone else. My HD DVR box, which I've had for over a year, suddenly has lost the abiltiy to display any functions. . . . Bummer, since I have some shows recorded that I never got to see...

You could wait for the next firmware update - that will re-initialize it.

Read your PM . . .

Probably a stupid question, but have you power cycled the box?
Yep, several times.

You could wait for the next firmware update - that will re-initialize it.
Interesting idea-- I hadn't thought of that. How do I know when the next firmware update is scheduled?

Read your PM . . .
PM = ?

I'm guessing this probably answers my earlier question...

PM = ?

PM = Private Message

Go to 'User CP' at the top of this screen and look on the left-hand side.

PM = Private Message

Go to 'User CP' at the top of this screen and look on the left-hand side.
Got it. Thanks.

Back a year or so ago, Sony was talking about a DVR with Cable Card. I think they finally started selling it, but I am not sure. Has anyone here seen/used one? How would it compare to the announced TIVO box?

Greg

Back a year or so ago, Sony was talking about a DVR with Cable Card. I think they finally started selling it, but I am not sure. Has anyone here seen/used one? How would it compare to the announced TIVO box?

Greg

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537711
Sony DHG-HDD250/500: Official Thread - AVS Forum

Back a year or so ago, Sony was talking about a DVR with Cable Card. I think they finally started selling it, but I am not sure. Has anyone here seen/used one? How would it compare to the announced TIVO box?

Greg

It was launched and discontinued with a year.. not a successful product at all. Too bad that the price point was so high otherwise I might have tried one.

peter

Not to drag the Tivo thing out but those that are interested, there's a demo of the Series 3 Tivo here: http://www.gearlive.com/index.php/news/article/ces-2006-video-tivo-series-3-video-interview-first-look-0108051437/

A couple of interesting things:

1. The pre-release software showed the channel guide a "grid" rather then the conventional "2 column" they currently have. I personally think this is a step back -- I've always thought the Tivo guide was superior to other grid-type guides.

2. Bob Pony (the Tivo guy giving the demo) eluded that you must buy the external hard drive from Tivo (i.e. you can't just go to Best Buy, get a hard drive, and hook it up).

3. Price has not been set but the guys doing the interview are guessing $800-$1000 (like Keenan)

3. Price has not been set but the guys doing the interview are guessing $800-$1000 (like Keenan)

The product would be stillborn at $800, IMO, because it would be linked to a monthly cost on top of that. Verrrrry limited market appeal when so many DVR offerings are just over the horizon.

I think the author's guess at price points is flawed anyway because it's almost solely based on the price of the older HD Tivo. The market has changed dramatically since then.

1. The pre-release software showed the channel guide a "grid" rather then the conventional "2 column" they currently have. I personally think this is a step back -- I've always thought the Tivo guide was superior to other grid-type guides.


I'm fairly certain that was just the alternate guide they were using, that was the same guide as the DirecTV guide which you can change to the TiVo 2-column guide by hitting INFO and changing it.

Nice box, but we were told last year at CES that TiVo would be putting out a 2 CableCARD box and it never materialized. Hopefully this one makes it to market by the end of 2006. By then maybe the guesstimated price will have dropped.

The product would be stillborn at $800, IMO, because it would be linked to a monthly cost on top of that. Verrrrry limited market appeal when so many DVR offerings are just over the horizon.

I think the author's guess at price points is flawed anyway because it's almost solely based on the price of the older HD Tivo. The market has changed dramatically since then.
You're probably right about the price, but I wouldn't under-estimate the power of the TiVo brand.

You're probably right about the price, but I wouldn't under-estimate the power of the TiVo brand.

When the original came out, there weren't many options. If and when this thing gets to market, there will probably be several, and from manufacturers much better at hardware design and marketing.

Bring out a $800 box when Samsung, LG, Sony and perhaps Apple???? are offering the same for hundreds less? Let's not forget the MSOs with their no upfront monthly lease options.

The Tivo brand doesn't carry enough weight to justify the difference for all but the diehard Tivo fan, IMO.

You can't float the company by spending huge amounts on R&D, forging your own trail with proprietary software(most others will probably opt for OCAP, ACAP or some derivative) and expect to sell to enough people to survive. Somebody in management at Tivo needs to get a serious bean counter perspective. They just don't have the cash reserves to be stupid for another 12-18 months.

The product would be stillborn at $800, IMO, because it would be linked to a monthly cost on top of that. Verrrrry limited market appeal when so many DVR offerings are just over the horizon.
You mean the monthly cost of CableCARD or the monthly cost of TiVo? TiVo does offer lifetime subscriptions and I would hope they would bundle lifetime into the product if they decide to sell for a high price vs low price to hook you in plus monthly as the current product is marketed. Early adopters tend to have a different view than mass market consumers.

I did find it nice that Mr. Pony confirmed the unit will support CC 2.0 (he mentioned 2 single-stream or 1 multi-stream CC) Of course never believe what you are told until you see it, anything is subject to change.

Bring out a $800 box when Samsung, LG, Sony and perhaps Apple???? are offering the same for hundreds less? Let's not forget the MSOs with their no upfront monthly lease options.
...
You can't float the company by spending huge amounts on R&D, forging your own trail with proprietary software(most others will probably opt for OCAP, ACAP or some derivative) and expect to sell to enough people to survive. Somebody in management at Tivo needs to get a serious bean counter perspective. They just don't have the cash reserves to be stupid for another 12-18 months.
The leasing option comparison is not necessarily an apples to apples comparison as the HD TiVo has residual value which can be recovered if one wants to change out hardware where the lease costs are lost. This is significant in the cost calculation, as I've made money on every PVR I've bought, used, and later sold. Not saying you will necessarily make money, but there is residual value and it isn't just a few bucks.

On the other hand, the lease option is nice with current policies w/r/t RMA process. Exchanging your Moto box at the Comcast office is nicer than RMA'ing to TiVo for repair. I would hope TiVo worked more reliably than some of the stories people have posted on here about the Motorolas but I imagine the first releases will be buggy with updates forthcoming.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought OCAP was middleware for Interactive Services at least partially Java-based. As such these services could run on HD TiVo as long as OCAP middleware is provided (ie the execution engine and APIs) So for example you could still purchase the Home Shopping Network at a push of a button instead of calling it in. I don't think OCAP is requiring the actual PVR application to be built on OCAP. Specifically in the OCAP specs they say OCAP must be able to run on different operating systems. My impression is for future channels folks envision per-channel interactive services as well as global interactive services, kind of like a web-station that downloads various Java or Soap apps.

If I'm interpreting the placement of OCAP correctly, then IMO it doesn't have real bearing on HD TiVo's success, as I think most people would be just overjoyed to have a DVR that reliably records what they tell it to record, which handles time slot changes, not recording previously recorded episodes, Daylight Savings Times changes, etc. In addition, if necessary, TiVo can add an OCAP engine (if they haven't done so already) and run whatever OCAP apps come down the pipe.

For the record, I'm not a TiVo die-hard fan. I've never owned one. Mainly use ReplayTV, but I do respect TiVo for pushing on and trying to offer us an alternative DVR choice. There are many creature comforts TiVo (and other DVRs) offer which the cable companies do not and sometimes will not. If no secondary PVR market is allowed to develop, you will be locked into whatever the cable company wants to give you, which is not always what you desire, but always what they desire. When you pay for your hardware out of your own pocket, the manufacturer inevitably becomes more responsive to your needs.

Buying electronics with an investment mentality is the fast track to the poor house. If you're one of the ones who paid $1k for the HD Tivo, what's the resale value when DirecTV is going all MPEG4 for it's new HD stuff? The depreciation over two years far, far exceeds what a $10/mo lease would. Even if your price point is the current $500, you're hosed.

I'm viewing OCAP/ACAP as the way to seamlessly integrate with all potential cable services and offer full interactive. From a business perspective, wouldn't it make sense to do that? The alternative would be for Tivo to take the somewhat arrogant approch of "our interface is so good that it's worth giving up other features". Flawed decision in my mind.

Again, hardware development is not Tivo's strong suit. When the competition is heating up, why take on a difficult design effort and risk ending up with hardware that won't be supported by the cable cos? Look at the VOIP situation for a good example of how your hardware can mysteriously not work correctly on someone else's network. Got Vonage? Hope you're not using it on Comcast broadband. But amazingly Comcast's own VOIP seems to work pretty well(personal experience).

You have to look at this from the perspective of the brand new DVR customer. Don't get confused with the EXISTING Tivo customers who are thrilled to death. Some signficiant number of those see the value of Tivo and are willing to pay a premium. Some see the value but in no way would pay $1k all over again. What about the new guy who doesn't understand the difference between Tivo and say a Comcast box? How you going to sell him on the idea that the Tivo is worth $800 more?

I should note that I'm simple in my needs/expectations for a DVR, so the Comcast box I use fills those. I don't have the problems some report, so not inclined to buy into the suggestion that it's a junk box.

This is OT from the current conversation, but I've been having recurrences of the sluggish remote/key queuing issue. About once every couple weeks the box just refused to respond. Nothing works except unplugging it and rebooting. Anyone with a PIII box using component out have this problem? (I'm on my second PII box).

jeff

I have one of the version III boxes and it must be unplugged at least once a week when it starts to lock up (no response to remote, FF/RW stops working, or recorded shows won't play).

Ok. that answers that . No exchange in my future. I asked CSR if they'd had any reports of this type on the PIII's. of course they said no.

A side note, of course the lock-ups happen during primetime when I need the box to work properly.

Best and thanks for the reply.
jeff

I've gotten pre-emptive and just cycle the box (by unplugging it) each weekend, when I remember to.

Buying electronics with an investment mentality is the fast track to the poor house.
...
I'm viewing OCAP/ACAP as the way to seamlessly integrate with all potential cable services and offer full interactive. From a business perspective, wouldn't it make sense to do that? The alternative would be for Tivo to take the somewhat arrogant approch of "our interface is so good that it's worth giving up other features". Flawed decision in my mind.

Again, hardware development is not Tivo's strong suit. When the competition is heating up, why take on a difficult design effort and risk ending up with hardware that won't be supported by the cable cos?
...
I should note that I'm simple in my needs/expectations for a DVR, so the Comcast box I use fills those. I don't have the problems some report, so not inclined to buy into the suggestion that it's a junk box.
No one is advocating investing in electronics. However one needs to understand there is residual value. In your HD-TiVo example one could have recovered significantly more residual value if they had read about D*TV dropping TiVo on AVS and sold their HD-TiVo ahead of time. Just like anything else, the residual value is variable. If you wait too long your residual value could end up going to zero. If you sell while a product is still current the actual cost too you will not be the full amount you paid.
...
And I'm viewing OCAP as a Java VM-like plugin for TiVo 3. I don't necessarily see any flaw. What OCAP applications are there today that you feel are must haves?

The reason why it would make sense for TiVo to control the hardware and software is they can have control over the quality and usefullness of the product rather than being hamstrung by someone else's design. TiVo may want to transform themselves into a Netflix download device. Good luck getting Comcast to agree to allow them to do that on their network. TiVo could implement advanced scheduling features like reordering your show records across multiple TiVo 3's to alleviate various recording conflicts and pseudo :01 :59 conflicts. You might see unit to unit streaming before Motorola can deploy there MoCa thingy.

By your thinking Apple would have been dead ages ago, yet they managed to survive and flourish. There are more pieces to the puzzle to success than how you are framing it. If you have very simple needs, the Comcast PVR may well serve your needs.

If TiVo put out the exact same product as Comcast/Motorola PVR on a proprietary platform, then yes, that is a crazy plan. Obviously the thinking is they are going to innovate faster with more consumer friendly features than Comcast, whose has a captive audience and wants to concentrate on extracting more value out of their customers. The whole premise behind paying for TiVo is they can provide you better functionality than what you can get from the MSO. If TiVo cannot deliver on the premise of how they stay in business, then obviously they will fail.

TiVo may very well fail in this market, but I'm going to give them a chance and see what they put out before passing judgment on them. I can tell you I'm certainly not happy with the features of the Motorola 6412, especially the scheduling inflexibility, lack of disk expansion, and lack of unit to unit streaming.

It's not just a TiVo fanboy thing. There really are quite useful features in these 3rd-party DVRs that are nowhere to be found in the MSO-sponsored DVRs and other than HD recording, a lot of other functionality your are taking a step backwards when using the 6412.

From 12/7/05:

According to JWhip, ESPN2, Universal-HD and the new MTV-HD are on the near horizon....for areas that have the bandwidth available...the Bay Area still does not even have TNT-HD...

Just saw that there will be hours and hours of Olympic programing from Italy in February and much of it will be in HD (not live on the West Coast for NBC, however). But Universal HD will carry much of it in HD.

Will Comcast pull a big surprise and carry Universal HD for the Olympics?

Place your bets. I'm giving 10-1 odds. Guess which way.

- Phil

I live in Hayward. Does anyone have an idea when comcast is going to offer INHD1 & INHD2 plus other upgrades in this area? Comcast csrs are evasive when asked this question. Is there any reason to explain why it is so difficult for comcast to upgrade their service in the east bay? I know this has been asked before but I was wondering if anyone has fresh news on this issue or has finally figured out how comcast goes about its upgrades. Thanks.

From 12/7/05:



Just saw that there will be hours and hours of Olympic programing from Italy in February and much of it will be in HD (not live on the West Coast for NBC, however). But Universal HD will carry much of it in HD.

Will Comcast pull a big surprise and carry Universal HD for the Olympics?

Place your bets. I'm giving 10-1 odds. Guess which way.

- Phil
I'll give 100-1 odds.

According to the comcast web site the available channels in my area (95124) are:

ESPN HD - Channel 723
INHD - Channel 719
INHD2 - Channel 720

Fox Sports Network Bay Area – Click for schedule of games

KGO (ABC) - Channel 707
KNTV (NBC) - Channel 703
KPIX (CBS) - Channel 705

KRON4 HD featuring HDNet– Channel 704
Discovery HD Theater - 722
KQED (PBS) - Channel 709

We also offer 4 HDTV Premium movie channels*
HBO – Channel 730
Showtime – Channel 736
Cinemax - Channel 732
Starz! - Channel 734


Is this list complete? Do they really not have FOX (KTVU HD) Is there anything else missing?

they do have KTVU, since just before last years super bowl

I am about to pick up a Panasonic 50inch plasma (TH 50PX50U most likely) and I want to upgrade to HD service.

Based on what I've read, now that DirectTV has upgraded to MPEG4, they have more HD channels than Comcast and they now have the local channels in HD. I've heard the picture quality is rumored to be slightly better on DirectTV, but I haven't heard a conclusive reason why this is or isn't true. BestBuy has a swingin' deal on DirectTV boxes-- total of $300 rebates on the DirectTV Tivo box if you also buy the big screen from them.

The additional cost of extra satellite boxes isn't too much of an issue for me as we only have two TVs-- the HD theater in the family room and the standard def TV in the bedroom.

I'm new to this, but DirectTV seems like the way to go. What am I missing?

I am about to pick up a Panasonic 50inch plasma (TH 50PX50U most likely) and I want to upgrade to HD service.

Based on what I've read, now that DirectTV has upgraded to MPEG4, they have more HD channels than Comcast and they now have the local channels in HD. I've heard the picture quality is rumored to be slightly better on DirectTV, but I haven't heard a conclusive reason why this is or isn't true. BestBuy has a swingin' deal on DirectTV boxes-- total of $300 rebates on the DirectTV Tivo box if you also buy the big screen from them.

The additional cost of extra satellite boxes isn't too much of an issue for me as we only have two TVs-- the HD theater in the family room and the standard def TV in the bedroom.

I'm new to this, but DirectTV seems like the way to go. What am I missing?

comcast is more expensive, but the quality is much better. i believe D* uses a lot of hd-lite so you'll get something halfway between plain ol digital picture and hd picture.

comcast will let you believe you are getting a good deal ... for the first 3 months... then boom. another thing you should look at is if the dvr can record in HD. I don't know if that one you are looking at can, but comcast's 6412 definitely can, albeit with a few annoying bugs.

According to the comcast web site the available channels in my area (95124) are:

ESPN HD - Channel 723
INHD - Channel 719
INHD2 - Channel 720

Fox Sports Network Bay Area – Click for schedule of games

KGO (ABC) - Channel 707
KNTV (NBC) - Channel 703
KPIX (CBS) - Channel 705

KRON4 HD featuring HDNet– Channel 704
Discovery HD Theater - 722
KQED (PBS) - Channel 709

We also offer 4 HDTV Premium movie channels*
HBO – Channel 730
Showtime – Channel 736
Cinemax - Channel 732
Starz! - Channel 734


Is this list complete? Do they really not have FOX (KTVU HD) Is there anything else missing?

I plugged in my area code, 94928, and it doesn't show KTVU either, but believe me, it's there on channel 702.

ZinMe,
I have Comcast basic for locals and Digital Classic package for FOXBA HD sports. I also have DirecTV HD TiVo but it doesn't do HD locals for SF or FOXBA HD. DirecTV does not have the MPEG4 DVR available yet, it will be a few months more. I suggest you try Comcast for a few months and you can switch to DirecTV later since Comcast doesn't require a contract and equipment is leased. DirecTV requres you to purchase and a two year contract for programming.

I plugged in my area code, 94928, and it doesn't show KTVU either, but believe me, it's there on channel 702.

Same for my zip but on the negative side it says I should be receiving KRON4 HD, INHD, INHD2 and FSNBA which I do not. I think the bottom line is don't trust the Comcast website to accurately reflect what you will and won't receive.

ZinMe,
I have Comcast basic for locals and Digital Classic package for FOXBA HD sports. I also have DirecTV HD TiVo but it doesn't do HD locals for SF or FOXBA HD. DirecTV does not have the MPEG4 DVR available yet, it will be a few months more. I suggest you try Comcast for a few months and you can switch to DirecTV later since Comcast doesn't require a contract and equipment is leased. DirecTV requres you to purchase and a two year contract for programming.

Sounds reasonable. What is the delay on the MPEG4? I thought they started offering service around Sept '05? Also, do you know when they go to MPEG4, how will the picture quality compare to cable HD?

comcast is more expensive, but the quality is much better. i believe D* uses a lot of hd-lite so you'll get something halfway between plain ol digital picture and hd picture.

Will that be true when they deploy MPEG 4? After reading this article, it sounds like DirectTV has the best solution, but they don't go into much detail on exactly why that is.

http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5108854-3.html?tag=lnav

Will that be true when they deploy MPEG 4? After reading this article, it sounds like DirectTV has the best solution, but they don't go into much detail on exactly why that is.

http://www.cnet.com/4520-7874_1-5108854-3.html?tag=lnav

This looks like lots of local channels in each market, each possibly more compressed and certainly lower resolution than getting them over the air or from cable.

This looks like lots of local channels in each market, each possibly more compressed and certainly lower resolution than getting them over the air or from cable.
DirecTV started transmitting the four major locals in HD on Nov 22, 2005. The signal is captured from the OTA signal sent from Sutro tower then fibered to Colorado for uplink to the satellite. At some point they are converted to MPEG4. The resulting signal resolution has been undetermined at this point, but at worst, it would be 1280x1080i. "Knowledgeable" viewers in the Detroit area have said the quality is indistinguishable from OTA. I believe HDTV Forum moderator Ken H has seen the signals and reported the same. I have not seen the signals myself yet so I cannot attest to the veracity of their remarks. I will say that the biggest issues seem to be with audio problems that are slowly being corrected, but I have yet to see anyone complain about PQ.

So basically, it's the same signal you'd get OTA, only it's been converted to MPEG4.

On the subject of Comcast, it's depressing reading about new HD channel additions on other carriers, yet we haven't heard a word about Comcast. We still don't have TNT-HD here and other carriers are getting reading to provide Universal-HD, MTV-HD, National Geographic-HD, ESPN2-HD and a few others I can't remember within a few weeks time.

..and Comcast Bay Area has added exactly what lately...? I have the same lineup I had over 2 years when I first got the service, I guess I should be thankful they haven't taking anything away..

..and Comcast Bay Area has added exactly what lately...?
Just increases in our bills. The least they could do is get the audio working correctly in the 6412 III.

Just increases in our bills. The least they could do is get the audio working correctly in the 6412 III.
Yes, that fix has been in other Comcast systems for over a month.

Back to HD channels, by Feb 1st, Dish will have 25 HD channels,

15 Voom channels, plus the following,

16. ESPNHD
17. ESPN2HD
18. TNTHD
19. Discovery HD
20. HDNET
21. HDNET Movies
22. Universal HD
23. HBO HD
24. Showtime HD
25. HD PPV

...and, they are starting HD LiL with 4 cities in Feb and adding 4 more each month, all of that HD for about $70-80 IIRC after an initial $50-300 equipment purchase/startup charge depending if you are a new sub or current sub.

So, by maybe March, at the latest April, Dish will be providing almost 30 HD channels in the bay area.

So what's up Comcast..?

Yes, that fix has been in other Comcast systems for over a month.

Back to HD channels, by Feb 1st, Dish will have 25 HD channels,

15 Voom channels, plus the following,

16. ESPNHD
17. ESPN2HD
18. TNTHD
19. Discovery HD
20. HDNET
21. HDNET Movies
22. Universal HD
23. HBO HD
24. Showtime HD
25. HD PPV

...and, they are starting HD LiL with 4 cities in Feb and adding 4 more each month, all of that HD for about $70-80 IIRC after an initial $50-300 equipment purchase/startup charge depending if you are a new sub or current sub.

So, by maybe March, at the latest April, Dish will be providing almost 30 HD channels in the bay area.

So what's up Comcast..?


Plus I believe Dish shows a few MLB extra innings games in HD a week, versus 0 for comcast. That might be the final straw, although I do like the sports on INHD on Comcast, but I don't necassily like the local teams.
No offense

So does Dish have more to offer than DirectTV? MLB extra innings package is one of the main draws for me-- you're saying Comcast doesn't offer it in the bay area?

Also, does anyone know between Comcast, Direct TV and Dish who offers 5.1 audio?

Make sure you read over at the HD programming forum about everyone complaining about "HD-Lite" on D* and E*.

If your screen size, viewing distance and eyes can resolve 1080i, then you may not be happy with HD programming from either satellite programmer.

But if you don't mind (or don't see) the difference (or pick up your locals at full resolution OTA), then Dish is winning the "content " game, with its VOOM pack. The HD programming on DirecTV is about comparable to Comcast's (minus StarzHD).

As for hardware, DirecTV's Tivo powered HR10-250 is by far the best HD-DVR out there. Unfortunately it doesn't support DirecTV's new MPEG4 transmissions, so it will eventually fade away. Again, if you pick up your locals OTA, and are happy with DirecTV current HD progrmaming lineup, the HR10-250 will keep you happy for a few years at least - until DirecTV starts putting up new national programming only in MPEG4 (most likely in 2007). Note: if you want DirecTV's Local HD channels TODAY, there is no DVR available now to record them. Its supposed to be introduced mid-year (and it won't be a Tivo).

I don't know much about Dish's hardware, except that many people complain about it, and they too are rolling out new stuff now to support MPEG4.

It appears in the long run DirecTV will be better positioned with more bandwidth. They're going to eventually have enough capacity to beam down every local HD channel in the nation, plus 150+ national channels. But that's going to take the launching of two new satellites sometime in the next 24 months to complete.

Dish has extra bandwidth today to deploy VOOM and local channels for a defined number of markets. But that bandwidth is going to run out (thus their use of HD-lite to fit in as much as possible). Until they get together a plan to increase their available bandwidth a lot, don't look for them to expand beyond the basic-4 networks for each city, nor stop re-compressing their HD signals. At least with DirecTV there's a hope they'll eventually be able to offer all HD channels in a market, uncompressed, as well as lots of new national HD channels, uncompressed. (when or even whether they'll do that - no know knows for sure)

But again, we're talking 2007 or later for all this to shake out. I'd recommend adding up what each of the three providers offers you today in terms of eqipment, service, quality and price, and then make a decision based upon that only. Dont' count on any new HD chickens to hatch for a while.

BTW, All Dish and DirecTV HD channels are in Dolby Digital (per the ATSC spec), sent out with as many audio channels as is in the source. I haven't watched an SD movie channel in so long, but I believe HBO, Showtime and Starz SD chanels are in Dolby Digital too.

Oh and one final and truly big difference between DirecTV and the other providers: they offer NFL Sunday Ticket. DirecTV paid big bucks to be the sole provider of this service, and many people are tied to them because of it. If your'e not an NFL nut, you won't care - but for many they're stuck with...umm... they enjoy DirecTV because of it.

MLB extra innings package is one of the main draws for me-- you're saying Comcast doesn't offer it in the bay area?

Yes, it does: http://www.comcast.com/Benefits/CableDetails/Slot2PageOne.asp. These are not in HD though...does Dish offer an HD MLB package?

Also, don't forget the HD games INHD shows...I believe it was 3 per week last year.

So does Dish have more to offer than DirectTV? MLB extra innings package is one of the main draws for me-- you're saying Comcast doesn't offer it in the bay area?

Comcast has MLB Extra Innings, just not in HD.

Also, does anyone know between Comcast, Direct TV and Dish who offers 5.1 audio?

In regards to HD, all of them do. In fact, it's one of the basic requirements in order for a program to officially be called "High Definition". Actually, technically it's the Dolby Digital AC-3 that's required which is not necessarily 5.1. However, it is used if it's available.

Yes, it does: http://www.comcast.com/Benefits/CableDetails/Slot2PageOne.asp. These are not in HD though...does Dish offer an HD MLB package?

Also, don't forget the HD games INHD shows...I believe it was 3 per week last year.
I'm not sure about HD MLB on Dish, but DirecTV has had dozens of HD MLB games for the last 2 years, around 4-5 per week. Of course none of them are Giants or A's games due to Comcast/INHD/Rainbow Media's ridiculous contract demands.

I don't know much about Dish's hardware, except that many people complain about it, and they too are rolling out new stuff now to support MPEG4.


To be fair, everyone's hardware gets complaints, just read the DCT6412/3412 threads. I've been using a Dish 942 for 5-6 mos and it's the stablest DVR I have when compared to the DCT6412 and the HD-TiVo.

A little article that Comcast should be looking at and so should the people of San Ramon
http://insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_3399136

Looks like Project LightSpeed isn't dead... :eek:

Laters,
Mikef5

is that something like Verizon FIOS?

DirecTV started transmitting the four major locals in HD on Nov 22, 2005. The signal is captured from the OTA signal sent from Sutro tower then fibered to Colorado for uplink to the satellite. At some point they are converted to MPEG4. The resulting signal resolution has been undetermined at this point, but at worst, it would be 1280x1080i. "Knowledgeable" viewers in the Detroit area have said the quality is indistinguishable from OTA. I believe HDTV Forum moderator Ken H has seen the signals and reported the same. I have not seen the signals myself yet so I cannot attest to the veracity of their remarks. I will say that the biggest issues seem to be with audio problems that are slowly being corrected, but I have yet to see anyone complain about PQ.

So basically, it's the same signal you'd get OTA, only it's been converted to MPEG4.

I guess we can agree to disagree. On a 1080p display, 1280x1080i looks softer than 1920x1080i, to me. On a 720p display the two signals appear equivalent.

Why are they capturing OTA?

Why not do like Comcast and get a fiber feed directly from the stations?

Last week, KGO-DT was operating at reduced power. Don't know how that affected the OTA folks but I could see all the playoff games fine.

And only 4 local HD stations? That is weak. Where is UPN and WB? Not giving me a reason to drop Comcast unless that MPEG4 DVR really knocks people's socks off.

Why are they capturing OTA?

Why not do like Comcast and get a fiber feed directly from the stations?

Last week, KGO-DT was operating at reduced power. Don't know how that affected the OTA folks but I could see all the playoff games fine.

And only 4 local HD stations? That is weak. Where is UPN and WB? Not giving me a reason to drop Comcast unless that MPEG4 DVR really knocks people's socks off.

Hopefully they've eventually get a fiber feed of the HD signal to DirecTV. I haven't seen any postings as to why, but the best guess is that it was quickest and cheapest to just put up some rabbit ears at DirecTV's POP. With DirecTV rushing to roll out dozens of new markets in HD, they probably went with the quickest options for now - and if KGO is transmitting, you'd never know the difference anyway.

When KGO was not transmitting OTA, DirecTV was out too. I believe that the picture was fine even at the reduced power. I don't know the address, but I'm sure DirecTV's POP isn't over in Walnut Creek or some other hard-to-reach location (from a signal's persective).

And finally - you've figured out the secret: no one provider has a dramatic reason to switch for HD programming today. Each has its pluses and minus right now - you just need to figure out what plusses tip the scale for you. Maybe in 2008, when DirecTV has its full bandwidth up and running, they'll offer all 20+ local digital stations in their full 19.2MBit glory (including subchannels), plus 150 national HD channels in full bitrate too. But for now, it looks like you're stuck with what they're offering.

I was listening to KCBS radio at lunch and they had a report saying 50% of the Super Bowl commercials were going to be in HD. I remember it was just a few years ago when we were saying "Oh my gosh...that commercial was in High Def!!!". :)

A little article that Comcast should be looking at and so should the people of San Ramon
http://insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_3399136

Looks like Project LightSpeed isn't dead... :eek:

Laters,
Mikef5

No coincidence that SBC has a huge complex over there, huh? :p

Since the initial Lightspeed rollout was supposed to be late 2005, 2008 looks like a horrible miss. I know there are technical hurdles, but Verizon is looking more and more like they made the smarter choice on technology for their FiOS system.

On the subject of Comcast, it's depressing reading about new HD channel additions on other carriers, yet we haven't heard a word about Comcast. We still don't have TNT-HD here and other carriers are getting reading to provide Universal-HD, MTV-HD, National Geographic-HD, ESPN2-HD and a few others I can't remember within a few weeks time.
..and Comcast Bay Area has added exactly what lately...? I have the same lineup I had over 2 years when I first got the service, I guess I should be thankful they haven't taking anything away..

We've all been bitching about this for months now, and at one point I was even told that Comcast reads this forum. BUT, there have been NO replies, answers, explanations, etc. and I believe that Comcast is actually engaging in false advertising with their TV commercials proclaiming that "Comcast is the leader in HD programming". NOT ANYMORE!!! Whatever happened to Mr. Johnson and/or the Comcast folks that we contacted last year to get FOX-HD for the Superbowl and the new DVR rollout initiated? Where are they now??? Why is the Bay Area being neglected?

Comcast is busy selling VOIP. You'll get a sympathetic ear if you want that service, though. ;)

IMO, we'll need some additional pressure on the TV side before you'll see the next significant "upgrade" in HDTV. The recent DISH announcements are a good step in that direction. DirecTV is basically hosed until 2007 when they add more national HD capacity.

Save for somebody like Mark Cuban, I don't think anyone in the HDTV space is really out to Wow the customer with their offerings. It's still all about the bottom line and you'll get better service and channel offerings only when those two factors are aligned in their eyes.

Save for somebody like Mark Cuban, I don't think anyone in the HDTV space is really out to Wow the customer with their offerings. It's still all about the bottom line and you'll get better service and channel offerings only when those two factors are aligned in their eyes.

I disagree. HD offerings is one of the only things that can really differentiate one provider from another. There's virtually no difference between watching SD HBO on D* then on Comcast -- they need something that they can say no one else has. Hence the reason why Comcast spent so much time/effort in marketing OnDemand. When D* first came out, their "hook" was having all digital channels, knowing that most of the cable channels were analog. Now that cable providers are moving their channels to all-digital, they have to come up with something else. It's a cat and mouse game and it seems like the customer is lost in the mix.

I just read the SF area DBS thread. There are major problems with the local HD channels (picture and sound) and as others have said, there is no HD DVR for local channels.

It does appear that Dish will have the advantage in a few months over DirectTV and Comcast based on overall programming breadth and equivalent picture quality to Comcast with MPEG 4.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=615354

From Multichannel News:

[Comcast Media Center senior vice president and chief operating officer Gary Traver] called HDTV a “game changer,” adding, “How well we execute on HDTV will emerge as a significant competitive factor. Much of the battle over HD households will be waged at retail. Every consumer purchasing his or her first HDTV set should be considered as a conversion opportuny."

I'm old enough to remember color television at this stage. Programming crept up, boosting television sales, which boosted programming. Then, one year, the dam burst and every network (not just NBC, which owned RCA) was featuring color programming. I suspect the same thing will happen here. The question is--will Comcast carry it, and at what subscription cost. (On the other hand, some significant number of HDTV owners now mistakenly think they are seeing HDTV, when in fact, they are still watching analog.)

I disagree. HD offerings is one of the only things that can really differentiate one provider from another. There's virtually no difference between watching SD HBO on D* then on Comcast -- they need something that they can say no one else has. Hence the reason why Comcast spent so much time/effort in marketing OnDemand. When D* first came out, their "hook" was having all digital channels, knowing that most of the cable channels were analog. Now that cable providers are moving their channels to all-digital, they have to come up with something else. It's a cat and mouse game and it seems like the customer is lost in the mix.

You may have missed my point....

Until D* and DISH are in better positions to offer a superior product, Comcast has nobody grabbing them by the short hairs and forcing them to make additional effort. They rolled out DVRs and have set the hook to a large degree with those. The next move to a new UI or home media center or addtional HD channels is simply not high on the Comcast priority list because they're not worried about losing sizeable numbers of subs to DBS at this time. DBS is losing the digital edge, as you noted, and for now they can't offer a compelling alternative.

Personally I hope that situation changes sooner rather than later, but rather than screaming about how I don't like the status quo, I look to understand the market dynamics that are causing it.

You may have missed my point....

Until D* and DISH are in better positions to offer a superior product, Comcast has nobody grabbing them by the short hairs and forcing them to make additional effort. They rolled out DVRs and have set the hook to a large degree with those. The next move to a new UI or home media center or addtional HD channels is simply not high on the Comcast priority list because they're not worried about losing sizeable numbers of subs to DBS at this time. DBS is losing the digital edge, as you noted, and for now they can't offer a compelling alternative.

Personally I hope that situation changes sooner rather than later, but rather than screaming about how I don't like the status quo, I look to understand the market dynamics that are causing it.

Gotcha. I think this will happen sooner rather then later. There seem to be 2 main factors that prohibit expanding of the channel line-up: bandwidth and contracts. As the months go on, more and more contracts will be due for renewal. Remember, each of the networks here in the Bay Area became available in HD only when the current contract expired. And as for bandwidth, the switch to digital, of course, will help out immensly. I know, I know...it may be a while when this happens. However, of the channels Comcast is NOT offering, I just don't think I'd watch very many of them. I'm really not into the NBA so TNT is a wash. ESPN2 would be nice but I can live without it. I've given up on expecting HDNET -- too much competition with INHD.

No coincidence that SBC has a huge complex over there, huh? :p

Since the initial Lightspeed rollout was supposed to be late 2005, 2008 looks like a horrible miss. I know there are technical hurdles, but Verizon is looking more and more like they made the smarter choice on technology for their FiOS system.


FiOS always sounded better on paper. First, FTTP rather than FTTN. I think SBC/ATT was looking at 20-30 Mbps total for all services while FiOS offers data that's in the 20 Mbps range by itself.

SBC/ATT is doing the full IPTV implementation and there were sporadic reports in the WSJ that a lot of it, basic things like watching one channel while recording another, wasn't working that well.

Plus stories about them using WMV9 at less than 5 Mbps to deliver 720p as their HDTV signal.

The problem is, Verizon doesn't seem to want to compete here in the Bay Area against SBC except in isolated areas like parts of Los Gatos where they were already offering POTS and DSL.

Even though it sounds like they have a much superior product to both SBC and Comcast. Assuming they can scale it throughout the Bay Area as opposed to the smaller more affluent towns in Texas and the East Coast. But the tech-cognoscenti would be all over FiOS as opposed to SBC's product.

BTW, interesting reversal that Dish will have an MPEG4 DVR before D*. Have they rolled out MPEG4 as widely as D* yet?

The thing was, people used to scorn the Dish DVRs because D* had Tivo. But now...

I agree that on paper FTTP sounds better, but I happen to have clients who are involved with the hardware side of the SBC solution. Those guys are some pretty sharp cookies and they've impressed people in the past with their handiwork. If it's at all technically feasible, these are the guys to do it.

The Microsoft factor could pooch the deal, but I don't think it's cast in stone yet that WMV will be the driving force on the software side. I believe the concept has been proven in the lab, and it's the scaling that remains the question mark.

BTW, interesting reversal that Dish will have an MPEG4 DVR before D*. Have they rolled out MPEG4 as widely as D* yet?

The thing was, people used to scorn the Dish DVRs because D* had Tivo. But now...

I don't think the DISH MPEG4 stuff starts for a few weeks yet. Simple DVR is yesterday's news. It offers no improvement over MPEG2 in terms of PQ and you're almost guaranteed some amount of debug time for the hardware will be needed. You still tweak the PQ with bandwidth just as before.

The next leap forward is a working home media center which I believe they announced at the same time? Didn't catch the expected deployment date of that part though.

I guess we can agree to disagree. On a 1080p display, 1280x1080i looks softer than 1920x1080i, to me. On a 720p display the two signals appear equivalent.
I imagine it would, but you didn't read my post carefully. I said at worst they would be 1280x1080i. There is no indication that the MPEG4 HD LiL are being sent at 1280x1080i. You're assuming that because DirecTV's current HD is being sent at 1280x1080i that the locals are being sent that way as well. There is no proof of that yet and in fact there are solid reports that the PQ is as good as OTA.

I don't know the address, but I'm sure DirecTV's POP isn't over in Walnut Creek or some other hard-to-reach location (from a signal's persective).


Probably the same place as they capture the SD signals. In some FOX O&O markets the antenna sits on top of the Fox studio.

Why are they capturing OTA?

Why not do like Comcast and get a fiber feed directly from the stations?

Last week, KGO-DT was operating at reduced power. Don't know how that affected the OTA folks but I could see all the playoff games fine.

And only 4 local HD stations? That is weak. Where is UPN and WB? Not giving me a reason to drop Comcast unless that MPEG4 DVR really knocks people's socks off.
Getting the signal OTA is just as good a quality as a direct connection. The advantage of direct connection is when there is a tower outage like KGO but when the digital transmitter becomes the primary and there is a backup digital antenna like there is with analog now, outages shouldn't be a problem.

There is no UPN or WB on Comcast either.

I imagine it would, but you didn't read my post carefully. I said at worst they would be 1280x1080i. There is no indication that the MPEG4 HD LiL are being sent at 1280x1080i. You're assuming that because DirecTV's current HD is being sent at 1280x1080i that the locals are being sent that way as well. There is no proof of that yet and in fact there are solid reports that the PQ is as good as OTA.

Glad to hear it. Hope to see it. Ultimately, there's little OTA-available stuff I watch. But if the movie channels are full resolution 1920x1080i, then DirectTV will again be a contender.

I've got a basic question.

If I subscribe to the digital tier (Digital Classic or Digital Plus) prgramming and configure one TV with DVR, can I still use my QAM tuners to receive the local HD channels on my other TV's? I'd rather not have to pay for other cable boxes if possible.

I'm in Livermore.

Thanks.

I've got a basic question.

If I subscribe to the digital tier (Digital Classic or Digital Plus) prgramming and configure one TV with DVR, can I still use my QAM tuners to receive the local HD channels on my other TV's? I'd rather not have to pay for other cable boxes if possible.

I'm in Livermore.

Thanks.
Yes.

Are UPN and WB OTA available in HD in the bay area? Also, are there any other HD channels not provided by comcast available OTA here?

Are UPN and WB OTA available in HD in the bay area? Also, are there any other HD channels not provided by comcast available OTA here?
Comcast provides:
KTVU, KPIX, KGO, KRON, KQED, KNTV

No WB or UPN on Comcast

See this (http://www.choisser.com/sfonair.html) for OTA list and there is another thread for discussing SF OTA.

Are UPN and WB OTA available in HD in the bay area? Also, are there any other HD channels not provided by comcast available OTA here?
Yes they are. I don't know how many other HD channels there are but there's a whole slew of digital channels that Comcast only carries the analog component of.


KRON is not provided in all areas(no big loss, it's a waste of bandwidth anyway).

sweet. thanks for the replies. So do you think I can get these channels in Santa Clara since they are broadcast in SF, about 50 miles away? How about with cheapo rabbit ears, or should I go powered antenna. I already have comcast, I'm just looking to maximize my HD selection. :D

sweet. thanks for the replies. So do you think I can get these channels in Santa Clara since they are broadcast in SF, about 50 miles away? How about with cheapo rabbit ears, or should I go powered antenna. I already have comcast, I'm just looking to maximize my HD selection. :D
At 50 miles I would go with a pre-amped antenna setup.

So nobody knows if Comcast is getting UHD anytime soon? If not, I'm switching to DirecTV for the Battlestar Galactica HD screenings. That's the only show on TV that I bother to watch (maybe Lost also), and if Comcast has no interest in doing any better than Sci-Fi channel in craptastic low-def, I'm jumping ship.

sweet. thanks for the replies. So do you think I can get these channels in Santa Clara since they are broadcast in SF, about 50 miles away? How about with cheapo rabbit ears, or should I go powered antenna. I already have comcast, I'm just looking to maximize my HD selection. :D

Give it a try with a cheapo antenna and see. I was able to get all the SF HD OTA stations solidly in San Jose with simply a free ribbon antenna tacked to the outside of my apartment. I think I got lucky, but it's worth a try before buying a fancier antenna.

thx alot guys!http://urlcut.com/fatassn00bcockdotcom823.gif

Comcast is making a big deal about their "On Demand" service.
All I have seen is the choice of a total of TWO HD movies - a 9 y.o movie "The 5th Element", which is free - and a year or two y.o. Movie, "The Ring" for $6.
The first movie will be showing for FIVE months. The second one for TWO months! The choice of two movies over a LONG period of time doesn't do anything for me.

They do seem to have a number of choices in SD. However, once the ever growing number of HD owners get exposed to HD, watching anything in SD will be totally unsatisfactory.

Once one of the providers (DISH, D*, or cable) realizes they need to offer a full plate of HD, they will get an advantage over the other sources. Right now D* has announced (at CES) no new HD in the coming year. [Offering band wasting locals in many cities doesn't add to the total available to any one user.] DISH is making some move towards more HD, but not much. Both of them offer only one HD PPV channel. Comcast doesn't really offer any. There are a fair number of HD channels that are out there.
BEV, the Canadian DBS system has been a leader in HD - which is why we got them 4 years ago. About 18 months ago they added even more HD and now carry FOUR HD PPV channels. They have most of the sports (HD) we do, and a premium HD channel that carries most of what is on SHO and HBO and a little of Starz. They also have ALL the HD networks available incl. WB and UPN and 2 feeds of PBS which neither D*, DISH carries and Comcast doesn't carry WB or UPN.

It would appear on the surface that maybe traditional cable simply doesn't have the physical ability to offer more than they are. There are many people in this thread who point out Comcast doesn't even offer them more than a very few HD channels. Satellite, which does have a choice, has decided to offer the major networks to many cities (not incl. PBS, UPN, WB) and not offer many of the national networks or premium HD channels and not much in the way of PPV.

Eng of rant.

...mike

I believe Comcast is on record as saying they can add about 35-40 HD channels before a large hardware upgrade is needed for their network. Right now you don't even have that many national HD channels, so it's moot. The landscape will change in 2006, but there are still only ~12 million HDTV sets sold in the US within an installed base of about 300 million. We're still very much in the minority.

D* is hosed until 2007 when they get more CONUS bandwidth. DISH is in a little better position with their satellite purchased from VOOM. Combined they are only catering to about a million current HD subs(data could be slightly dated). From a bean counter's perspective, the DBS guys don't have strong incentive yet to spend massive amounts of $$ to cater to a still relatively small percentage of the customer base. Next couple of years should see that situation shift.

BEV, the Canadian DBS system has been a leader in HD - which is why we got them 4 years ago.

I see you are in Berkeley. One can get BEV in the SF Bay Area? How?

I've got a basic question.

If I subscribe to the digital tier (Digital Classic or Digital Plus) prgramming and configure one TV with DVR, can I still use my QAM tuners to receive the local HD channels on my other TV's? I'd rather not have to pay for other cable boxes if possible.

I'm in Livermore.

Thanks.
If you have a QAM tuner on your TV or a separate tuner, you can get local HD broadcast stations by subscribing to limited basic cable (about $13/month)

peter

I believe Comcast is on record as saying they can add about 35-40 HD channels before a large hardware upgrade is needed for their network.

Are people in the Bay Area starting to get more and more (UPN, WB, etc.) in HD. Being stranded in a 550Mhz area I don't know what is going on in the rest of the Comcast HD "world". :o

UPN and WB is not in HD on Comcast anywhere in the Bay Area, that I am aware of. The offerings are ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC and PBS, in the network realm.

Hi, All. I experienced some weird problems with my 6412 yesterday while watching the football games, and I want to make sure it's just not me. My audio kept switching from regular stereo to DD 5.1 "seemingly" random. For example, I started watching the Fox game about a half hour after it started, and the audio was standard stereo. However, about 15 minutes after catching up to the "live" feed, during the broadcast it switched to DD. It stayed DD for a while, including commercials, until I hit pause, when it switched back to stereo! I had similar problems with CBS's feed.

Did anybody else have similar problems yesterday, or should I start looking at my setup to see if my equipment is broken?

BTW, is it just me, or does the audio for CBS's SD and HD feeds have way different levels? During HD portions, I really have to crank up my stereo to hear anything, but when it switches to SD (commercials, promos, etc.), the levels are so high it blasts my ears out :)

Hi, All. I experienced some weird problems with my 6412 yesterday while watching the football games, and I want to make sure it's just not me. My audio kept switching from regular stereo to DD 5.1 "seemingly" random. For example, I started watching the Fox game about a half hour after it started, and the audio was standard stereo. However, about 15 minutes after catching up to the "live" feed, during the broadcast it switched to DD. It stayed DD for a while, including commercials, until I hit pause, when it switched back to stereo! I had similar problems with CBS's feed.

Did anybody else have similar problems yesterday, or should I start looking at my setup to see if my equipment is broken?

BTW, is it just me, or does the audio for CBS's SD and HD feeds have way different levels? During HD portions, I really have to crank up my stereo to hear anything, but when it switches to SD (commercials, promos, etc.), the levels are so high it blasts my ears out :)

its not random, when you use HDMI on the buggy 6412 it switches to DD prologic when you play anything that isn't live TV... the only fix is to use component cables or wait for the next firmware upgrade which is when????? dunno.

its not random, when you use HDMI on the buggy 6412 it switches to DD prologic when you play anything that isn't live TV... the only fix is to use component cables or wait for the next firmware upgrade which is when????? dunno.

I am using HDMI, but only for the video. My audio is sent via coaxial to my receiver. Does the HDMI bug affect even this configuration? If so, well, yuck ...

The HDMI bug affects the coax and Toslink connections to your receiver. When they get around to downloading the 12.22 firmware it is supposed to be fixed.

It's shameful that Comcast actually places these boxes with that defect.

I am using HDMI, but only for the video. My audio is sent via coaxial to my receiver. Does the HDMI bug affect even this configuration? If so, well, yuck ...

hdmi carries video and audio signals... that's part of the problem from what i understand.

I see you are in Berkeley. One can get BEV in the SF Bay Area? How?
Short answer. Yes you can (for now) get all the HD BEV offers. There are rumors they might shift some of the HD to an old sat. that won't give us "southern" Canadian viewers a signal. Their HD sat. is at 82. In this area you really need to get a 24" dish for a solid signal. (The "new" sat. - an old one "junked" by D* would be at 82 as well.
When we first got BEV, everything came fm. one dish at 91. No problem w. an 18" dish. Then they moved the HD and a few foreign things to a new sat. at 82. Added the 24" dish. Then, about a year ago added an "old" sat. they picked up fm. D* at 91 and we lost nearly half the SD channels - altho still got most of what we wanted.
You do need to give a Canadian address when signing up - but can set acct. to be paid automatically w. a U.S. credit card.

For lots of info, go to:
http://www.canadian-tv.com/forums/

Feel free to PM me and leave me your phone number if you want.

Hi, All. I experienced some weird problems with my 6412 yesterday while watching the football games, and I want to make sure it's just not me. My audio kept switching from regular stereo to DD 5.1 "seemingly" random. For example, I started watching the Fox game about a half hour after it started, and the audio was standard stereo. However, about 15 minutes after catching up to the "live" feed, during the broadcast it switched to DD. It stayed DD for a while, including commercials, until I hit pause, when it switched back to stereo! I had similar problems with CBS's feed.

Did anybody else have similar problems yesterday, or should I start looking at my setup to see if my equipment is broken?

BTW, is it just me, or does the audio for CBS's SD and HD feeds have way different levels? During HD portions, I really have to crank up my stereo to hear anything, but when it switches to SD (commercials, promos, etc.), the levels are so high it blasts my ears out :)

Hi,

I have the exact same setup (6412-III, Firmware 12.18, HDMI to TV, Digital/Coaxial to Receiver, in the East Bay [Alameda]). If I hit Pause and then play, or try to watch anything off the DVR, it only gives me stereo. If I'm live and the channel supports it, I get DD5.1. It's basically a firmware problem (as noted by many others), and requires v12.22 to solve the problem. Other forums have noted that the problem was solved when their box was updated (remotely). These were folks who were not in the bay area and I think not even Comcast. It's a matter of when Comcast decides to do the update.

I did lose the DD5.1 on the football game on Saturday, but that was also during the 'bad weather' we were having. Even worse...I lost power for an hour, so missed part of the game :-(

The HDMI bug affects the coax and Toslink connections to your receiver. When they get around to downloading the 12.22 firmware it is supposed to be fixed.

Well, I guess you have to add me to the list of people "patiently" waiting for the 12.22 upgrade. With my setup, HDMI gives me a noticably better picture, so in the meantime, I'll have to decide if I want a sharper picture or clearer audio ...

Thanks for the confirmation. Not the news I wanted, but at least I know it's not just me :)

I know C* has in the past had a minimum package that you have subscribe to to get the PVR. What package is it?

I also know there was a loop-hole but dont remember the details or if it still works...does anyone remember?


Thanks for you help

I know C* has in the past had a minimum package that you have subscribe to to get the PVR. What package is it?

I also know there was a loop-hole but dont remember the details or if it still works...does anyone remember?


Thanks for you help
In Santa Rosa you have to sub to Basic+Expanded Basic+Digital Classic to get the DVR. Comes to about $65-70 a month.

same here

I need some advise re witch HDDVR to get from Comcast in San Mateo.

The Comcast service rep is telling me that the coxal & optical sound out for 5:1 are diactivated on there duel tunner DVR's. He did not mention moddle number. Is this true? It does not sound correct.

What HDDVR should I be looking to get that has either coxal & or optical out that works?
DVI & or HDMI to the HDTV is also nice.

What firmware version should I have?

Any help would be appriceated.

RichTidd

Look above for stories of how on the latest greatest HD dvrs, the 5.1 output is indeed not working in 5.1 (downmixes to stereo), IF one is uing the HDMI output.

I am refereing to coxal & optical sound out for 5:1.

Do these outputs work on the latest DVR's from Comcast?
If so, witch ones?

Yes, they work, but not when using HDMI for video.

Thanks.

Is the 6412 the latest model or is there another model?

Anything else I need to know?

Well, I guess you have to add me to the list of people "patiently" waiting for the 12.22 upgrade.

Did I read here (or elsewhere?) that the 12.22 upgrade also de-activates the 30 second skip forward functionality??

Did I read here (or elsewhere?) that the 12.22 upgrade also de-activates the 30 second skip forward functionality??

I've heard that with regard to Insight. Not so sure about Comcast.

Hello everyone in Northern CA. I live in MO, but my Dad is in Gilroy, CA. He is in the market for a 60"+ DLP or LCD. Can someone recommend a good place to send him?

Thanks,

Scott

Hello everyone in Northern CA. I live in MO, but my Dad is in Gilroy, CA. He is in the market for a 60"+ DLP or LCD. Can someone recommend a good place to send him?

Thanks,

Scott
Magnolia HiFi ... they have several locations in the Bay area.

Magnolia HiFi in Santa Clara is excellent.

Thanks Bill and Bill. I'll share that with my Father. He mentioned a Toshiba DLP he saw at Costco??? Samsclub???? Can't remember which one, but I thought he should go to a better place to get some good advice.

Scott

Thanks Bill and Bill. I'll share that with my Father. He mentioned a Toshiba DLP he saw at Costco??? Samsclub???? Can't remember which one, but I thought he should go to a better place to get some good advice.

Scott

The good thing about Costco is that they have their indefinite "no questions asked" retrun policy. I had a co-worker who bought a Plasma there and then 6 months later decided he wanted a larger DLP. He brought it back they happily exchanged it for a new TV.

yeah, I you already know what you want to buy, and it's available in Costco, buy it there. Costco has the best return policy in the world.