Is comcast lowering the bitrate of those HD broadcast programs, or the stations themselves are lowering it? Recently I've seen significantly smaller sizes of HD recordings than I used to. For example, last night's Desperate Housewives is only 5.3GB and Grey's Anatomy is only 4.9GB. They used to be in 7-8GB range.

DH/GA issue might have to do with this post by Larry Kenney in the OTA thread...

-----

I received the following email from Rich Tom, Chief Engineer at KGO-TV/DT:

Hello Larry,

I'd appreciate it if you could post this to the various HDTV groups. (You know what they are, I don't.) Thanks.

-------------

I added sub-channel 7.3, the new KGO AccuWeather Now, yesterday. I am telling you, you guys are up to the second with what we are doing with our digital signal and don't miss a thing.

The contrast problem you encountered was caused by the upconverter being set incorrectly. The black level was set to -89mv and white level was set at +4mv. I reset them back to unity.

I was creating the program guide last night for 7.3 and while uploading it to the PSIP table it broke the chain to the DTV encoder. I had to recreate the links to the DTV encoder manually. Some of you noticed that we were showing up as 24.3, 24.4 and 24.5 for a while. Everything should have been back to normal by 9 PM last night (Saturday).

If you are having problems receiving KGO-DT, you might need to re-scan due to the break in PSIP information. Some receivers don't seem to recover automatically after a PSIP problem. Others seem to handle it with out any difficulty.

I took 2 mbs from our HD channel for the new AccuWeather Now. The HD may not look as crisp as before, but it should still look pretty good.

Regards,
Rich Tom
Chief Engineer
KGO-TV/DT

I took 2 mbs from our HD channel for the new AccuWeather Now. The HD may not look as crisp as before, but it should still look pretty good[U].

Regards,
Rich Tom
Chief Engineer
KGO-TV/DT
That's priceless, another blow against PQ. Rich Tom would have been better off not saying anything about the PQ than what he did say, it just proves that they have PQ low on the list of importance. KGO(ABC) sports may start looking a lot like KTVU(FOX) sports, things like the "swimming grass" during football games.

HD quality HDTV in the bay is on the way out, the following is a post from Richard Swank, recently retired but still active at KNTV(NBC),

Let's discuss Bandwidth
I know this will be or at minimum it will sound like a sac-religious comment to this group. However there is very, very, very little program HD content that requires anywhere near 19 megabits of bandwidth for pristine 8VSB broadcast HD quality. Even high motion sporting events such as football or the Olympics seldom requires more than 16.5 megabits for error free compression. The highest demand during this years Olympics so far has been 16.5 megabits and that occurred so quickly it was only noticed by our equipment's statistics monitoring system. I agree a higher bandwidth is required if the signal is going to be compressed from HD decoded back to HD and the re-encoded and decoded back to HD again multiple times. A great deal of high quality compression systems used for this process use 45 megabits and are quite successful. The 19 megabit compression system used for 8VSB system however is not intended to do more than compress the HD signal once, transmit it, and decode it once for final viewing. The compression nerds (sorry about that if you are one!) have developed a very good system and our HD before and after decoded is a basic mirror image of itself to the eye or even our high priced HD monitoring systems. I expect these guys will get it someday so we can send two simultaneous HD signal for viewing in the 19 megabits and no one will be able to tell the difference, especially two sitcoms or drama series programs.

Most viewer received breakup is a result of non-linear reception or transmission difficulties rather than a breakdown of the compressed Mpeg stream in the generated 8VSB signal. These distortions of the linearity are non-linear receive antenna systems, multiple path complexities, decoders and other influences to the signal after the signal leaves the stations antennas. In fact the signal begins to deteriorate the instant it leaves the antenna. Demodulated right off the antenna input at our transmitter sites we almost never see any blocking at all, I've not seen any caused by bandwidth issues, there are some however caused by the HD editing or other momentary imperfections in our distribution systems from the program source.

KNTV sets our limit of available bandwidth for 11.1 to 17 megabits so that 11.2 can be broadcast at the same time. Our signal multiplexing system however is very smart and fast. It automatically uses any of the 17 megabits bandwidth that isn't being required for the current HD signal compression to provide additional bandwidth automatically for the sub-channel and does use the full 17 megabits for HD if required. I would love to see the picture that would need the full bandwidth as it would be so complex and changing so quickly the average viewers eye or monitor wouldn't be able to see it.

As for the need of a local Weather sub-channel. I would agree if we lived in an area where there were not so many micro-climates caused by the mountainous terrain in this area it would seem a bit much. The bay area however has many, many different simultaneous weather conditions. These channels do provide a system to look before you travel. If you have ever lived in Gilroy and have gone to a Giants game you never know what to expect weather-wise. Maybe if your traveling to Texas you'd like to know what to expect as well. KNTV's WX+ system gives you a means to know before you travel, not afterwards when you are not properly prepared. Personally, I believe it wouldn't be too surprising if a sub-channel specializing in traffic was far off the horizon or maybe a what going on in the various cities around the bay area today sub-channel. I know if you never use this information it's seems like a waste of space but these sub-channels are really designed to provide 2-5 minutes of occasional viewing for those using or needing them. Anyone that would just watch one of these channels for hours would probably be considered by most as slightly weird but it does take all kinds.

I am a broadcast engineer and this will probably sound like it's a bit defensive but it's not really intended to be that. After all I'm pretty much retired. So go ahead and tear me a new one but this is more of a reality than any suffering you'll experience because there is a sub-channel.

So that's 2 stations that are firmly in the multicasting camp and soon KPIX(CBS), the one shining light of PQ in the bay area, will start multicasting as well, at least Moonves(CEO-Viacom) has stated that it won't be another weather channel, as "the last thing people want is another weather channel". At least one major broadcast company doesn't have it's head up it's ass.

We should feel lucky that KTVU(FOX) is locked into it's bitrate because of the splicer system FOX Network uses, which they claim, once all their stations/affiliates have been outfitted with updated reception equipment, will be raised as they are aware of the PQ issues that being limited to 15Mbps can cause.

I guess we'll have to look forward to Blu-ray Disc for our PQ in the near future, I stopped watching much TV when DVD came, the PQ was terrible in comparison and it seems that we're slowly moving around to that side of circle again.

So that's 2 stations that are firmly in the multicasting camp and soon KPIX(CBS), the one shining light of PQ in the bay area, will start multicasting as well, at least Moonves(CEO-Viacom) has stated that it won't be another weather channel, as "the last thing people want is another weather channel". At least one major broadcast company doesn't have it's head up it's ass.

We should feel lucky that KTVU(FOX) is locked into it's bitrate because of the splicer system FOX Network uses, which they claim, once all their stations/affiliates have been outfitted with updated reception equipment, will be raised as they are aware of the PQ issues that being limited to 15Mbps can cause.

I guess we'll have to look forward to Blu-ray Disc for our PQ in the near future, I stopped watching much TV when DVD came, the PQ was terrible in comparison and it seems that we're slowly moving around to that side of circle again.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooo. another weather channel!!! i'm gonna watch ABC tonight to see if my eyes can pick up the 2mb difference.... :(

Well, I've tried twice to have TVs fitted with cable cards. The first was a Sharp 32" LCD display. Couldn't get it to work. I returned the TV and picked up a Sony 26" LCD (nice picture btw). Again, the Sony wouldn't work with the cable card either. Has anyone in the Bay Area been able to get a TV with cable cards to work? Has anyone in the Los Altos area?

Thanks,

Greg

Are these guys kidding, get my weather from a tv subchannel? I and just about everyone else have internet access. That is where I get my info. Put it on your web site only. What a waste of bandwidth! How about about adding something usefull like including info about what is on in your signal. As it sits right now, the DTV guide is being wasted also. I used to watch local news but I can get that off the internet also. If they want people to watch their news they need to go to HD news. HD is the only thing they have going for them. Their TV shows are available for download off the internet in DVD quality. As far as I'm concerned the government should take back all the broadcast channels. Cable/internet/satelite (with internet being the winner out of those three) is the only thing needed anymore. The networks can send us their programing through those. Local broadcasting is not needed anymore and a waste of the airwaves, especially to everyone in this thread as we all have cable.

Well, I've tried twice to have TVs fitted with cable cards. The first was a Sharp 32" LCD display. Couldn't get it to work. I returned the TV and picked up a Sony 26" LCD (nice picture btw). Again, the Sony wouldn't work with the cable card either. Has anyone in the Bay Area been able to get a TV with cable cards to work? Has anyone in the Los Altos area?

Thanks,

Greg

i had a cable card a few months ago on my Sony 55 rear LCD, and it worked fine for me. comcast did the installation and everything. i liked the pq on it... however, i returned it and spent another 5/ month for dvr, and haven't looked back since. dvr > cable card 1.0

That's priceless, another blow against PQ. Rich Tom would have been better off not saying anything about the PQ than what he did say, it just proves that they have PQ low on the list of importance. KGO(ABC) sports may start looking a lot like KTVU(FOX) sports, things like the "swimming grass" during football games.

HD quality HDTV in the bay is on the way out, the following is a post from Richard Swank, recently retired but still active at KNTV(NBC),

I guess that bites doubly for Comcast users since we inherit the reduced bitrate but we aren't getting the weather channel.

They pulled InHD2 temporarily to make room for Universal HD since UHD has some of the Olympic coverage in HD . InHD2 should return after the Olympics (and then they'll make room for UHD full Time on another channel)
Is there enough room for another HD channel? I thought they were basically full up, until they go full-digital (remove the analog channels 2-82). Otherwise we could have INHD1/2 during FSN games (they insert FSN and remove the INHD channel during games)....

Or we could have TNT-HD (not like anyone would want to watch the NBA playoffs in HD...) :p

I guess that bites doubly for Comcast users since we inherit the reduced bitrate but we aren't getting the weather channel.


No that's good. The fewer people who watch it, the more clue they might get that nobody wants it.

Is there enough room for another HD channel? I thought they were basically full up, until they go full-digital (remove the analog channels 2-82). Otherwise we could have INHD1/2 during FSN games (they insert FSN and remove the INHD channel during games)....

Or we could have TNT-HD (not like anyone would want to watch the NBA playoffs in HD...) :p
There's definitely room on 750/860.

There's definitely room on 750/860.

Yeah, but they don't want to pi** off Keenan any more than he already is... ;)

Yeah, but they don't want to pi** off Keenan any more than he already is... ;)
I think he is already numb and doesn't feel anything anymore.

Naw, Keenan still kicks the dog, shoots BB guns at the cats and occasionally aims for neighborhood kids in his car...and I am having much more difficulty pulling money out of my wallet to pay the Comcast bill each month, but.. :eek: :D

seriously, regarding Comcast, I've started another(first done about 1 year ago) dialog with the City Manager's office and the Vice-Mayor of Santa Rosa about a week ago. The VM emailed me right back with a CC to the CM's office requesting he be notified of the response when it is made. So far I have not had a response, but I'll give it to the end of the week. Comcast and Santa Rosa have a disagreement that apparently has not had any positive movement on a resolution in over a year. Hopefully there will some news from The City soon, although with anything regarding Comcast/Santa Rosa, I'm not holding my breath.

Comcast and Santa Rosa have a disagreement that apparently has not had any positive movement on a resolution in over a year. Hopefully there will some news from The City soon, although with anything regarding Comcast/Santa Rosa, I'm not holding my breath.
It's like a race between a turtle and a snail, and they're both facing the wrong direction.

Evidently, as this dispute started long before that Feb/05 meeting you and I attended...

I am a new poster with a number of problems. I live in Saratoga and have just installed a new home theatre. I have the new (??) Motorola Comcast Box 6412 III with Firmware version 12.12 and the local Comcast (Los Gatos) says they can't get me the Firmware upgrade at this time. My problem is the HDMI output will not work going through the Pioneer VSX-74 TXvi receiver so I have to use component cables from the Comcast Box to the receiver and then I can use HDMI from the receiver to the plasma display (Fujitsu 63"). This causes my CEDIA calibrator tech problems since he cannot control what the Pioneer receiver is doing in the conversion of the component signal to HDMI. Anyway, my question is does anyone know if/when the Los Gatos/Saratoga office will get the latest firmware upgrades to the DCT6412 box and will that fix my HDMI problem?

I am a new poster with a number of problems. I live in Saratoga and have just installed a new home theatre. I have the new (??) Motorola Comcast Box 6412 III with Firmware version 12.12 and the local Comcast (Los Gatos) says they can't get me the Firmware upgrade at this time. My problem is the HDMI output will not work going through the Pioneer VSX-74 TXvi receiver so I have to use component cables from the Comcast Box to the receiver and then I can use HDMI from the receiver to the plasma display (Fujitsu 63"). This causes my CEDIA calibrator tech problems since he cannot control what the Pioneer receiver is doing in the conversion of the component signal to HDMI. Anyway, my question is does anyone know if/when the Los Gatos/Saratoga office will get the latest firmware upgrades to the DCT6412 box and will that fix my HDMI problem?

we are ALL waiting for a firmware upgrade. no one knows when. comcast def put out this buggy box and HDMI is among the biggest issues.

I am in San Jose (95124) at leigh av & 85. My 6412 has stop communication with the headend and doesnot receive any of the lower analog channels. Becasue of this the DVR features of the 6412 nolonger work nor does indemand. I called Comcast and they said there wasnt any problem in my area. I took my STB over to a friends house is Willow Glen (95125) and it works just fine there.

Does anyone have any ideas what could be the issue?
My HSI works just fine so there is 2 way com traffic.
All my authrized channels are there but without guide info.
Just no lower analog (below 40 os so). Clock reads 12:00 all the time. No indemand.

This all started last Thurs...Nothing has changed with my setup either. I've removed all splitters etc etc and still no avail.

HELP?!?

THX in adv.

I live in the cable slums of Sunnyvale. Does anyone have any info regarding when In Demand will be available in my neck of the woods?!?

Thanks in advance!

I live in the cable slums of Sunnyvale. Does anyone have any info regarding when In Demand will be available in my neck of the woods?!?

Thanks in advance!

550mhz area? lol good luck. lots of people are frustrated on this board, including keenan.

550mhz area? lol good luck. lots of people are frustrated on this board, including keenan.

Especially Keenan!!!! :eek:

My reply to the report on KGO subtracting 2mbps by adding the weather channel was in the OTA forum. These guys (KGO and KNBC) gotta be kidding me. Saying that you "almost never" need full bandwidth is bogus. You need it when you need it. Not having it when you need it a distraction. A distraction that shouldn't be there. PLEASE KPIX, if you're reading this JUST SAY NO TO MULTICASTING!

I've noticed pixelization during fast pans which happen LOTS in bobsledding, alpine skiing, etc. If the shots wide enough, then you almost never pixelate. But what fun is that. On my 73'' mits, I LOVE the tight shots. That's what HD's all about.

Rant off.
jeff

watching george lopez right now to gauge the PQ on ABC... it looks like crap now. not as crisp for sure since that 2mb reduction... anyone else notice?

Hey KGO-TV: Thanks for doing your part to make my multi-thousand dollar investment in HD, and evangelizing HD to friends & family look really stupid. Look fuzzily really stupid.

All this for a weather channel (which we already have) and a "news" subchannel that - most of the time I'm viewing it - runs thinly veiled "buy real estate!" "news" shows. As it is, with one subchannel, I was getting complaints by people about the macroblocking and loss-of-resolution during high-motion & live-sports content.

HDTV WAS SOLD TO US AMERICAN CITIZENS AS A WAY OF GETTING HIGH-DEFINITION TV, NOT A WAY FOR YOU DINOSAURS TO PUSH MORE CHANNELS OF SCHMUTZ!

What a mess - I think it's time we form a nation-wide HD oriented consumer group to put our collective foot down about multi-casting, copy-protection, and cable shenanigans.

The cable and HSI are out in Milpitas. Anyone else having this problem. It went out about 11 PM last night after a brief power outage; power can back on in a few minutes, but cable didn't. I didn't get to see Sasha Cohen skate, how did she do?

HDTV WAS SOLD TO US AMERICAN CITIZENS AS A WAY OF GETTING HIGH-DEFINITION TV, NOT A WAY FOR YOU DINOSAURS TO PUSH MORE CHANNELS OF SCHMUTZ!

What a mess - I think it's time we form a nation-wide HD oriented consumer group to put our collective foot down about multi-casting, copy-protection, and cable shenanigans.
That might have been the reason you bought your TV and that might have been what the salesman told you, but the only thing the FCC ever required was the broadcasts move to digital to free up the analog spectrum. They never specified it had to be HD. I only mention this because because you mentioned American Citizen. I'm not happy about the reduction in bitrate for KGO either, but this is an issue to take up with KGO.

I think there are many people at the stores who don't realize
digital != HD

digital = SD and/or HD

I would almost bet the problem with the KGO weather channel addition was not a choice that the local ABC affiliate had anything to do with, it was probably mandated by the parent company. What they hope to do with this useless channel is beyond me. I watched it for a while and it seems to deal with national weather and once in a while it goes to local weather but I did notice it is loaded with commercials and banner ads. So to me it's just another way for them to garner more money from sponsors and not to fill a need for the general public. It serves no useful purpose, if I want to know the weather I'll stick my hand out the window and if it gets wet then it's raining if it remains dry then it's not raining. Besides we already have 3 weather stations ( 4 if you count the one in the guide ) so why do we need another one ???
I really hope that Comcast will not add this piece of tripe to their lineup but I've got a bad feeling that this will fall under the must show clause. So The way to get rid of this channel is to write to or email KGO and let them know your feelings on this waste of bandwidth and that you will not support it or it's sponsors. I seem to remember a Doppler Radar channel that use to be broadcasted by this same network I believe and that's how it got removed from the airways. If you don't tell them that you don't want it then they will assume that everyone is just fine with this addition to their lineup and continue on with it, so let them know. Just something to think about.

Laters,
Mikef5

I really hope that Comcast will not add this piece of tripe to their lineup but I've got a bad feeling that this will fall under the must show clause.
Well, I just noticed the ABC AccuWeather channel showed up on Comcast today. I don't know what channel it is on the cable box or even if it exists yet, but it shows up on a QAM tuner (at 117.8 for me)

Same as Mikef5 said, looks about the same as the KNTV-W channel.

There are different opinions on the "must show" clause, but most interpretations are saying the "must show" only applies to the main channel and not all the subchannels. Potentially it could end up being a point of major dispute between MSOs and networks.

The cable and HSI are out in Milpitas. Anyone else having this problem. It went out about 11 PM last night after a brief power outage; power can back on in a few minutes, but cable didn't. I didn't get to see Sasha Cohen skate, how did she do?

Cable is back on now; Sasha Cohen is number one after the short program.

I wonder why it takes 8 hours to restore service after a power outage?

I wonder why it takes 8 hours to restore service after a power outage?
KGO-Weather is the current scapegoat-du-jour.

Cable is back on now; Sasha Cohen is number one after the short program.

I wonder why it takes 8 hours to restore service after a power outage?
That's strange, I never lost power last night and I live in Milpitas also. I live near Curtner School so we might be on a different grid. I've had power go off at my house and the people two streets down haven't lost it. I guess it's just the luck of the draw. ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

i never write letters... but i will monitor ABCHD's PQ for the rest of the week and if I still see the same fuzzy watered down pictures, i will voice my displeasure to ABC, KGO or whomever I can find email addresses for.

I emailed KGO. Here's the reply (from KGO engineering):

"The decision to implement a 3rd DTV channel is a Division requirement.
We use the Harris Flexicoder and have statistical multiplexing enabled
to give the priority to the HD channel. Meaning that if the HD channels
needs 19.4 Mb's it will receive them. "

It's easy to find their email address and thy replied in less than 30minutes.

jeff

Glad too see posts regarding KPIX and KGO pic quality. Last night we watched Desperate Housewives (KGO) and I was very disappointed in the picture quality. Very soft.
My initial reaction was that the cable box needed to be replaced.

Matt

Well, I just noticed the ABC AccuWeather channel showed up on Comcast today. I don't know what channel it is on the cable box or even if it exists yet, but it shows up on a QAM tuner (at 117.8 for me)

Same as Mikef5 said, looks about the same as the KNTV-W channel.

There are different opinions on the "must show" clause, but most interpretations are saying the "must show" only applies to the main channel and not all the subchannels. Potentially it could end up being a point of major dispute between MSOs and networks.
"Must carry" only applies to the analog main channel, so far..if the main channel(such as the HD version) is carried under a retransmission agreement, then anything goes, the station can negotiate the carriage of all it's sub-channels. I believe within the next 2-3yrs stations will have to chose one or the other and it could impact whether the sub-channels are carried. Currently Congress and the FCC have resisted efforts by the broadcasters to mandate "must carry" for all digital channels, (main and sub).

For example, as a condition of carrying KGO's HD feed, Comcast may have had to agree to carry all the digital sub-channels as well. If Comcast decided only to carry the "must carry" analog feed, then all digital main and sub-channels be damned. I'll bet the only reason we haven't seen any sub-channels from KTVU or KPIX is simply because they don't have any yet, as long as the negotiation for KTVU-HD took, you can bet sub-channel carriage was one of the points being negotiated. KTVU is sitting on almost 4Mbps of bandwidth right now during primetime they could utilize for subchannels due to the FOX network 15Mbps slicer feed system.

See my post above. The sub-channel carry was dictated by "Division".

jeff

I emailed KGO. Here's the reply (from KGO engineering):

"The decision to implement a 3rd DTV channel is a Division requirement.
We use the Harris Flexicoder and have statistical multiplexing enabled
to give the priority to the HD channel. Meaning that if the HD channels
needs 19.4 Mb's it will receive them. "

It's easy to find their email address and thy replied in less than 30minutes.

jeff
This needs a little clearer explanation for if the HD channel needs 19.4Mbs, which it will quite often, do the other sub-channels just quit sending a signal...? Why not just turn the damn things off during primetime..?

There's an excellent post in the local Yahoo bay area forum by, who I believe uses the name dr1394 here at AVS, that shows that these channels really need far more bitrate than is being given to them. Maybe he could weigh in with a possible explanation of what KGO is trying to say in that email.

See my post above. The sub-channel carry was dictated by "Division".

jeff
Yes, but ABC/Disney can't force a sub-channel on a cable company without it being negotiated in a contract, most likely a retrans agreement which probably includes the HD channel and all/any sub-channels. IOW, cable wants the HD, well then, you will have to carry all of our sub-channels as well. When the analog OTA shutoff comes this is going to change as the main channel that would fall under "must carry" will be in most cases be the HD channel. I believe the stations will have to choose one or the other type a carriage agreement, not both as happens right now. If the station chooses to go the "must carry" method, cable can tell the station to keep the sub-channels and send them where the sun doesn't shine.

Disclaimer: I believe the above to be fairly accurate, but things have and are still being negotiated with the communication bill in Congress.

P.S. I think CBS(KPIX) has said already that they are going to demand cash for their HD channel at contract time, which could mean that CBS will only provide a SD channel for the "must carry" provision.

Keenan,
WRT to your P.S., does that mean I'll need to set up OTA again, i.e. that comcast will lose KPIX HD programming and I'll have to use OTA from Sutro to get it, if contract talks fail?

Regarding full bandwidth. If people are seeing a difference, then there's a difference and it's not small. I'll check the yahoo forum for details. Thanks for the pointer...

Life used to be so much simpler...

jeff

Keenan,
WRT to your P.S., does that mean I'll need to set up OTA again, i.e. that comcast will lose KPIX HD programming and I'll have to use OTA from Sutro to get it, if contract talks fail?

Regarding full bandwidth. If people are seeing a difference, then there's a difference and it's not small. I'll check the yahoo forum for details. Thanks for the pointer...

Life used to be so much simpler...

jeff
Unlikely that Comcast will not have KPIX in HD, but Les Moonves, CEO of Viacom/CBS has already stated that things are going to be different with the next round of contracts and that CBS is going to demand much more than they are getting, if anything now. Currently I don't think much of anything is exchanged between KPIX and Comcast other than some advertising commitments. Keep in mind that if ESPN can get $3-4 per subscriber, having far less coverage than CBS, you have to figure that the major networks are going to go after that money as well.

Below is a copy of the post from Ron, I don't think he'll mind a re-posting here, but if he does, I'll remove it. Some very good information in it. There's another one at the Yahoo forum where he shows what portions of Letterman on KPIX looks like.

************************************************************ ********

As an MPEG-2 encoder designer at LSI Logic, I analyze video
bitstreams all the time. Over the years (I've been in the MPEG
business since 1993), I've created a tool set to quickly assess
quality of MPEG-2 encoding.

I'll describe the process with links to JPEG's on my web-site.
The first graph is a plot of KNTV's video bitrate for about
14 minutes. It was captured with a MyHD card on Sunday
night Olympics.

http://www.w6rz.net/kntvbits.jpg

The graph shows that the HD bitrate is pinned at 16.1 Mbps almost
all the time with a few excursions below 16.1 Mbps during some 4x3
commercials. The SD bitrate is always 1.5 Mbps.

Although technically, the bitstream is VBR (Variable Bit Rate), the HD
encoder is really programmed to use a CBR (Constant Bit Rate) rate control
and not bother stuffing to the CBR rate during sequences that aren't complex
enough to generate 16.1 Mbps.

Because the encoder is using CBR rate control, the bitrate tells us almost
nothing about the encoded quality of the video. Another metric is
needed, and
the most easily extracted information from the video bitstream is the
quantization
level of each macroblock in the frame. By adding up all the quantization
values
and dividing by the number of macroblocks, an average quantization can be
assigned to each frame.

This graph shows the average quantization per frame for the same clip.
Larger
numbers are more poorly coded pictures. The maximum quant level is 56, and
a frame of all quantization 56 macroblocks has an effective resolution of
1920/8 x 1080/8 or 240 x 135. As you can see, the quantization is all over
the place. Things will start to look blocky at around 15, and anything
over 20
is pretty hideous.

http://www.w6rz.net/kntvq.jpg

Now lets zoom in on a sequence where the encoder had trouble. I chose the
region around frame 6800 as an example because the high quantization lasts
for about 25 frames (close to a second), and is easily noticeable while
viewing.

http://www.w6rz.net/kntvq6838.jpg

Since I've decoded the bitstream to generate the quantization information,
I also have a map to the bitstream. Here's the portion of the map around
frame 6838.

http://www.w6rz.net/kntv6838.txt

Then I use an MPEG-2 editor to seek to that point in the bitstream. Here's
what frame 6838 at average quantization 48.55 looks like:

http://www.w6rz.net/bus.jpg

This is a frame after a cross-fade from a close-up of the "Bus" just sitting
in the studio. It's an "MPEG killer", and the encoder produces a pretty
shabby sequence of frames.

So it boils down to what David Lee posted, "Perhaps there is some more
formal definition where there is no more than x seconds where the blocks
are visible per y hours of show?"

Of course there's no formal definition, but with the toolset I've just
described,
one can objectively determine how many blocky frames there are per unit of
time. Upgrading to the Harmonic encoder is a step in the direction of fewer
blocky frames per unit time.

These graphs also show that Richard Swank's original post contains some
serious misinformation.

1) However there is very, very, very little program HD content that
requires anywhere near 19 megabits of bandwidth for pristine 8VSB
broadcast HD quality. Even high motion sporting events such as football
or the Olympics seldom requires more than 16.5 megabits for error free
compression. The highest demand during this years Olympics so far has
been 16.5 megabits and that occurred so quickly it was only noticed by
our equipment's statistics monitoring system.

Unfortunately, you've come to an invalid conclusion. The encoder is
programmed
to 17.1 Mbps, and because you never see it generate a bitrate over 16.5,
you've
concluded that the program material never requires more than 16.5 Mbps.
Sorry, that's completely wrong. In reality, the Flexicoder likes to add
around
1 Mbps of PES (Packet Elementary Stream) overhead to the programmed
bitrate. You don't see peaks over 16.5 because you've actually programmed
the encoder CBR rate at around 16.1 Mbps. From the quantization graph,
it's obvious that there's plenty of program material that will exceed
16.5 Mbps.
In fact, if you programmed the encoder to 70 Mbps (in an offline test),
you'd
see peaks of 69 Mbps.

2) I expect these guys will get it someday so we can send two
simultaneous HD signal for viewing in the 19 megabits and no one will be
able to tell the difference, especially two sitcoms or drama series
programs.

Not with MPEG-2. We're at the end of the quality improvement curve on
MPEG-2.
Only H.264 can do two 1080i HD channels in 19.39 Mbps.

3) Our signal multiplexing system however is very smart and fast. It
automatically uses any of the 17 megabits bandwidth that isn't being
required for the current HD signal compression to provide additional
bandwidth automatically for the sub-channel and does use the full 17
megabits for HD if required.

As you can see from the bitrate graph, the SD encoder is glued at 1.5
Mbps. There's
no "borrowing" of bandwidth from the HD sub-channel. That would be
stat-muxing.
KNTV-DT is not using any stat-muxing. It's two essentially independent
encoders
in CBR mode.

4) ....or even our high priced HD monitoring systems.

Unfortunately, a professional CRT based HD monitor is very forgiving for
viewing compressed video. What you really need to evaluate quality is what
your audience is using. That is, an LCD or Plasma flat panel (on the factory
100% contrast settng) that shows every possible wart and imperfection in
the image.

5) In fact the signal begins to deteriorate the instant it leaves the
antenna.

Sure, the analog modulated 8-VSB signal deteriorates. But if your receiver
has sufficient signal to noise ratio, the error correction will deliver
the exact
same digital bitstream that was transmitted. 8-VSB is heavily error coded.
It uses a 2/3 rate convolutional code and a 188/208 Reed-Soloman block
code. In other words, almost half the bitrate of the channel is error coding
(the actual bitrate of 8-VSB is 32.28 Mbps with 19.39 Mbps leftover for
payload). The 14 minute clip that I made the graphs from has zero bit
errors.
I receive the exact same bitstream, bit for bit, in Milpitas that was
generated
at KNTV-DT on Mt. San Bruno. That's the beauty of digital television.

Ron

Yep Keenan, I saw that over there (yahoo). I'm not sure how we, as consumers of HDTV, have much of a chance getting the best possible pq, when managers get it wrong. e.g. "the encoder is set to X mbps, and you never need more than X, therefore it's good enough". I would hope that the engineering staff understands this stuff. My interactions with KGO's engineering staff seemed to indicate that they did and that they also seemed to care about pq (and audio quality).

Like I said, things used to be so much simpler ;-)

Best,
jeff

I'd imagine setting up ATSC MPE2 encoders would be akin to the difference in using the user controls on a display, brightness, contrast, etc, and having the display professionally calibrated, the former may be "good enough" but the latter should be done for ultimate performance. No doubt the engineers at these stations are just beginning to understand how to get the most from the new equipment they are now using. The danger is that once something is "set" there may be a tendency to forget it and not strive to get the most out of it. Hopefully in the future when that is all they are using they will fine-tune the equipment as they have done until now with the NTSC analog stuff.

..and yes, things did use to be much simpler(but it didn't look as gooooood!) :p

Hah, that's awesome. Though you don't need to be an MPEG engineer with sophisticated test equipment to notice macroblocking. It's there plain as day - and this on a well calibrated CRT-based set - god help those poor J6P's with LCDs they just bought from Costco set on 100% contrast...

You almost never see artifacts on InHD (they are there, but rare). In contrast to HBO-HD which blocks up like a Lite-Brite on any kind of transition, or strobe-light type SFX... I wonder what bitrate HBO is using? Anyway, at least the Olympics look 100% better than last year... there are still rare artifacts though.

they should run sky 7 HD 24/7 on that new subchan..... unfortunately i'm in dreamland. why do we only get a few minutes a day with that copter... MORE MORE MORE. :)

they should run sky 7 HD 24/7 on that new subchan..... unfortunately i'm in dreamland. why do we only get a few minutes a day with that copter... MORE MORE MORE. :)
What they really should do is move that camera into the studio and start HD broadcasting the news. God, Pete Wilson in Hi-Def :eek:

Laters,
Mikef5

I forwarded ron's link to the KGO engineering staffer that replied to me.

jeff

I have been following this thread for about 9 months. I have learned that some systems like in S. Rosa have what are called "550mz systems", most of the rest of us have "800mz systems". (I forget the exact numbers.)
I assume these numbers are a measurement of bandwidth - (or lack thereof<G>). Have the "800" systems been maxed out? or is there room to add more HD? If there is no more room to add HD channels, it would seem that satellite would begin to have a potential advantage since they can just put up more birds.
If there is no more room, then I would assume that what we have now is all we are going to get. In that case, I guess I need to consider getting an HD sat. DVR box to replace or augment cable.
I am operating under the assumption the Bay Area is not going to be getting FIOS from SBC. At least I haven't heard anything.

...mike

I am operating under the assumption the Bay Area is not going to be getting FIOS from SBC. At least I haven't heard anything.

...mike

i think ATT's lightspeed is coming to san ramon. who knows when it'll hit the rest of the bay area. i think there is space on 800+MHz systems but comcast is trying to avoid full out war with subs if there is such inequalities in HD packages until their cap ex evens things out.

Have the "800" systems been maxed out? or is there room to add more HD? If there is no more room to add HD channels, it would seem that satellite would begin to have a potential advantage since they can just put up more birds.
If there is no more room, then I would assume that what we have now is all we are going to get.
My area is 860Mhz. The highest they have used so far is 765Mhz. Each channel is 6Mhz and handles 38.4Mbps (2 ATSC HD channels or 10 ADS SD channels) Don't know if all that bandwidth between 765 and 860 is usable, but it seems to me they have plenty bandwidth available.

If all that space is usable, they have room for at least 30 HD channels.

I forwarded ron's link to the KGO engineering staffer that replied to me.

jeff
The reply to my reply from KGO engineering is it's a divisional requirement and is not going away. Get used to upto the minute weather...

jeff

The reply to my reply from KGO engineering is it's a divisional requirement and is not going away. Get used to upto the minute weather...

jeff

"division" is never a good thing. when CTU brings in someone else from "division" there is often a lot of trouble. i hate "division." they are the true terrorists... holding bandwidth hostage. where is our jack bauer? wait, am i in the right thread?

Jack: Chloe, give me a secure socket to division's broadcast computer.

Chloe: Jack, this is off protocol.

Jack: I know, but there are millions of HDTVs at stake, this needs to stay under the radar.

seriously tho, why are they running this sub channel when primetime programming is on? who in their right minds are gonna be watching the weather channel at 8pm??? yes when the VIEW is in HD, please run multiple channels to soften that picture up... please... but not when lost, grey's are on.

Jack: Chloe, give me a secure socket to division's broadcast computer.

Chloe: Jack, this is off protocol.

Jack: I know, but there are millions of HDTVs at stake, this needs to stay under the radar.

Yes, but is that the regular radar or the HD Doppler Radar? :D :rolleyes:

Jack: Chloe, give me a secure socket to division's broadcast computer.

Chloe: Jack, this is off protocol.

Jack: I know, but there are millions of HDTVs at stake, this needs to stay under the radar.
:p :D

Only a few systems are 860mhz. Most are 750, with a few notoriously stuck at 550mhz. :)
I don't think there is very much room left on the 750, otherwise they wouldn't have to shuffle channels around just to put a baseball or basketball game on...

They can make better use of the existing bandwidth in 2 ways however. One is to replace the analog spectrum with digital. This is in the testing stages now I guess... The other is by using better compression methods. Currently they use MPEG2 which is terribly old by now. There are much better systems out there such as H.264 (which is what next-gen HD formats will use, i.e. Bluray/HD-DVD, Quicktime and Windows WMV)

Only a few systems are 860mhz. Most are 750, with a few notoriously stuck at 550mhz. :)
I don't think there is very much room left on the 750, otherwise they wouldn't have to shuffle channels around just to put a baseball or basketball game on...

This is what I count available for 750Mhz

651Mhz/ch100 - is all duplicated on other channels already so it is available for recovery on 750Mhz systems.

705Mhz/ch109 - no QAM signal (unused?)

723Mhz/ch112 - no QAM signal (unused?)

729Mhz/ch113 - no QAM signal (unused?)

Assuming these are all available, I count room for 8 HD channels at full 19.2Mbps on 750Mhz systems. If bitrates are reduced like we are seeing more than 8 channels could be possible.

Maybe these are only available because I'm on 860Mhz. Perhaps someone on 750Mhz can comment?

I hope someone here can help me, I searched for info, but I didn't find much. I have comcast in San Ramon with the basic digital package. I recently got a 50" SXRD and have been receiving the local HD channels through the QAM tuner. It worked fine for about a month and a half, and last week, KQED HD and all the other 9.x KQED channels stopped working. It just says no signal. I waited several days and tried to rescan when I read here that there were issues with KQED at that time. After the rescan the only HD channels I get now are KRON and ABC. All the others are no signal. I tried and amplifier and it had no effect.

Could this be a problem with the TV? It's approaching the end of it's return window. Or could it be a comcast problem? Are they required to broadcast the locals in the clear? If I call will I get any help or will they just tell me to get a cable box?

Thanks a lot for any help.

Most of the time when this happens it is because the channels lost their PSIP info and got relocated back to the actual RF channel like 117, 116, 114, etc.

It could also be something else, but you should try all the scanned channels, paying special attention to the ones over 100.

I live in Danville and lost the 9.x Channels also. I found all of them Except 9.1 ( the HD Channel) on upper Channels. I don't remember where I found them but they are there. I assume that Comcast scrambled 9.1 for some reason, since I couldn't find it.
You need to rescan all of the channels and get a pencil and paper

Thanks guys, it looks like that worked. I found most of them. NBC was like 116.2 I think, and there were a bunch of others at 117.x. How long does this type of thing usually last? At some point when they get the PSIP data sorted out again I'll be able to rescan and have them back in the remapped positions right?

Last night while watching recorded NBC Olympic coverage on my 6412 phase III box, I noticed that the picture appeared to be "jumping" occasionally, so fast action scenes looked jerky. Thought this might be due to the Comcast feed, as "live" TV seemed to be doing the same thing, but checking my other 6412 - III box in the house showed no problems there.

I know that "live" TV is really a slightly delayed recorded program since the DVR records everything being watched (right?), but has anyone else had this problem from time to time? I did have an "incident" the night before where the box was behaving strangely, so I had to unplug it to unscramble it, but would that have anything to do with the current problems? Is this box "on its way out?"

I did notice that the guide was still not entirely populated even about 24 hours after the reset....does downloading the guide info affect PQ? Thanks.

This is what I count available for 750Mhz

651Mhz/ch100 - is all duplicated on other channels already so it is available for recovery on 750Mhz systems.

705Mhz/ch109 - no QAM signal (unused?)

723Mhz/ch112 - no QAM signal (unused?)

729Mhz/ch113 - no QAM signal (unused?)

Assuming these are all available, I count room for 8 HD channels at full 19.2Mbps on 750Mhz systems. If bitrates are reduced like we are seeing more than 8 channels could be possible.

Maybe these are only available because I'm on 860Mhz. Perhaps someone on 750Mhz can comment?HSI uses 705 I believe. Which by the way, just got increased to 6 megabits in Petaluma. :eek: I'm getting 5.9 mb too (750-800 kBytes/sec download :eek: :eek: )

In other words, it's back to being what it was when TCI first installed the service in 1999, before ATTBI took over and capped it down to 1.5mb at the time.. heh.

Last night while watching recorded NBC Olympic coverage on my 6412 phase III box, I noticed that the picture appeared to be "jumping" occasionally, so fast action scenes looked jerky. Thought this might be due to the Comcast feed, as "live" TV seemed to be doing the same thing, but checking my other 6412 - III box in the house showed no problems there.

I know that "live" TV is really a slightly delayed recorded program since the DVR records everything being watched (right?), but has anyone else had this problem from time to time? I did have an "incident" the night before where the box was behaving strangely, so I had to unplug it to unscramble it, but would that have anything to do with the current problems? Is this box "on its way out?"

I did notice that the guide was still not entirely populated even about 24 hours after the reset....does downloading the guide info affect PQ? Thanks.
I have a 6412 PIII as well. I noticed some herky-jerky-ness while watching CSI last night. I didn't even think about the fact that it could be the box, but now that you mention it...maybe.

So, what effect does unplugging the box have? Do I lose any recordings or my recording schedule? Does the guide get erased and need to be re-populated? I have had the box for a couple of months now, and it has worked fine all along, so I hate to do something that may not be needed, especially if it might cause the box to act "funny" going forward...

So, what effect does unplugging the box have? Do I lose any recordings or my recording schedule? Does the guide get erased and need to be re-populated?
Unplugging/replugging the box can cure a multitude of problems with these things...I believe it's essentially like rebooting it. Pre-recorder programs or schedules will NOT be affected...but the guide info is lost and is renewed over a few (?) hours by Comcast...

Thanks guys, it looks like that worked. I found most of them. NBC was like 116.2 I think, and there were a bunch of others at 117.x. How long does this type of thing usually last? At some point when they get the PSIP data sorted out again I'll be able to rescan and have them back in the remapped positions right?
You should be able to. In some cases, you don't even need to rescan. Depending on the implementation when the PSIP comes back it will be detected when you switch to the channel and the ordering will be adjusted. Other implementations will require a rescan. Some tuners have had problems when stuff bounces around also but that is more rare.

My area lost PSIP for those channels months ago so I'm not holding my breath for a fix.

Has anyone else lost KGOHD and KQEDHD Saturday night?

What about ESPN2 HD?

Come summer, the World Cup will be on ESPN2, I believe.

There's got to be some interest in the WC in HD. As much as the Olympics, I would think?
I am hoping the negotiation will be done before the World Cup start in June this summer. Perhaps Comcast can bring ESPN2-HD on earlier; does anyone have an idea how soon we can watch ESPN2 in HD?

Does anybody know what is taking FSN so long to release the schedule of Giants & A's high definition broadcasts? They are MUCH later than last year. Is it possible that something could be in the works with another provider (someone other than Comcast)?

I'm not sure where to post this, but can anyone compare the current state of Comcast vs DirecTV. I am currently a DirectTV subscriber in south San Jose, but I'm not that thrilled with it. I only get ABC local in HD, and I don't get FSN Bay Area in HD at all. In addition, Howard Stern On Demand looks like it will be Comcast only. All of this is adding up to a possible shift back to Comcast.

I've never had DirectTV or any satellite for that matter. What I do know is I pay $12.50/month for basic cable service and an extra $5/month for the HD box which gets me all the local stations in HD when they do have HD programs which is more and more now.

Here in Santa Clara, I also get ESPNHD, INHD, INHD2, and a few other HD channels. I also get lots of digital SD stations as well and I don't pay for digital service.

In addition, I have a HD QAM tuner in a computer so I watch the same HD local stations and a bunch of digital stations for no charge. Now I can record all those CSI programs I usually miss and watch them later in true HD glory.

I just noticed, INHD2 is back, although the guide still says UHD.

I've never had DirectTV or any satellite for that matter. What I do know is I pay $12.50/month for basic cable service and an extra $5/month for the HD box which gets me all the local stations in HD when they do have HD programs which is more and more now.

Here in Santa Clara, I also get ESPNHD, INHD, INHD2, and a few other HD channels. I also get lots of digital SD stations as well and I don't pay for digital service.


You're getting those Digital tier channels with just a Basic Sub? I thought Comcast eliminated the ability to do that...

From another AVS thread:
NBC-UHD gone as of 7am sunday. But after Comcast removes all of the West Coast Feeds of the Encore & premium Ch.(HBO, SHO, TMC, CINEMAX, Starz) on March 1st. it should be back later in March, plus several new HD ch. and 2 new Encore movie ch.

Anyone here know anything about the removal of our West Coast feeds???
Is this legit? (I sure hope NOT!!!)

scanpa is in PA so he's probably talking about their removal on his/east coast systems.

From another AVS thread:


Anyone here know anything about the removal of our West Coast feeds???
Is this legit? (I sure hope NOT!!!)

i think he's talking about the new jersey comcast area, where they've been getting west coast feeds of HD channels... i don't know why or how, but probably not relevant to us.

so have we lost UHD yet? what do you think the next addition will be? my money is on espn2.

so have we lost UHD yet? what do you think the next addition will be? my money is on espn2.


My money is not on anything at this point :o
I'm still waiting for TNT-HD which was announced nearly a year ago......
(And I would like to have kept UHD too)

My money is not on anything at this point :o
I'm still waiting for TNT-HD which was announced nearly a year ago......
(And I would like to have kept UHD too)

I'm just back from visiting my sistser in Florida, and via Cox Cable she has HD-TNT, and it was very nice! Lots of reasonably good movies. Crazy that we still don't have it here.

You're getting those Digital tier channels with just a Basic Sub? I thought Comcast eliminated the ability to do that...It's been over 2 years now and I always get those stations even though I have the basic analog service. I got those same stations when I lived in Fremont and here in Santa Clara since I moved here 1 year ago. There were short periods of time when INHD and INHD2 were gone, but they are back and I've always had them in Santa Clara. ESPNHD has always been on. I think I just get the local stations in SD digital. Same channels I seem to get using a HD tuner card with QAM. My guess was that Comcast will broadcast all local stations over the cable. I hardly watch anything SD because I'm too spoiled with HD.

Once in awhile I even get HBOHD if I happen to check. Never know when or why I get them sometimes.

Check out this lineup from SureWest in Sacramento,

For 10.99 per month the lineup is
NBCHD,
PBSHD,
ABCHD,
CBSHD,
FOXHD,
ESPNHD,
DiscoveryHD,
HDNet,
HDNet Movies,
Universal HD,
TNTHD,
Comcast Sportsnet for Sacramento Kings games.

The HD movie channels include
HBOHD,
ShowtimeHD,
StarzHD,
CinemaxHD,
The MovieChannelHD.

A basic sub is $16.99 and it looks like you can a-la-carte the above HD channels for an additional $10.99.

Info at the below link,

http://personal.surewest.com/digital_tv/package/options.php
SureWest - Personal Entertainment - Digital TV Options & A La Carte Packages

Link to original post,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7214022#post7214022
HDNet on SureWest via IP & FTTP - AVS Forum

Talk about literally SMOKIN' Comcast...and 20Mbps internet to boot....maybe I can get the City of Santa Rosa to invite SureWest to town.. :p

YAY warriors are back in hd!!

they've slumped so much since comcast threw them off the hd schedule.

Check out this lineup from SureWest in Sacramento,

For 10.99 per month the lineup is
NBCHD,
PBSHD,
ABCHD,
CBSHD,
FOXHD,
ESPNHD,
DiscoveryHD,
HDNet,
HDNet Movies,
Universal HD,
TNTHD,
Comcast Sportsnet for Sacramento Kings games.

The HD movie channels include
HBOHD,
ShowtimeHD,
StarzHD,
CinemaxHD,
The MovieChannelHD.

A basic sub is $16.99 and it looks like you can a-la-carte the above HD channels for an additional $10.99.

Info at the below link,

http://personal.surewest.com/digital_tv/package/options.php
SureWest - Personal Entertainment - Digital TV Options & A La Carte Packages

Link to original post,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7214022#post7214022
HDNet on SureWest via IP & FTTP - AVS Forum

Talk about literally SMOKIN' Comcast...and 20Mbps internet to boot....maybe I can get the City of Santa Rosa to invite SureWest to town.. :p

Town???? How about Sonoma County!!!! ;)

Just got an email from Mr. J about the sound issue and the firmware update to fix it. Also he gives a short update to the all digital transistion and the availability of the 3412 box. Here is the message for the forum.

____________________________________________________________ ______________

A while back, you had asked about the latest news on the firmware update that Motorola was working on to deal with the Dolby Digital 5.1 playback issues on their 6412 units.
At that time I promised to keep you up to date on the progress, so here is the latest. You can share this with the Forum.

The new code is scheduled to leave the labs on March 17th, going immediately into a field trial for a four week field period using their beta testers.
This puts it at a mid to late April release, obviously depending on the results of the trial.
Additionally, some of the participants in the Forum have been asking when the Motorola 3412 would be finding its way into customer’s homes in the Bay Area.
At the present time, Motorola has indicated we could see the first shipment within four to five months, in synch with the continued implementation of our All Digital Simulcast protocol.
(The Motorola is a digital-tuner only version of the Motorola 6412. It is similar to the 6412 except it is unable to tune in analog channels. It can only be used in systems that have All Digital Simulcasting active. The unit can record two SD digital or HDTV channels at once and play back a recorded show at the same time. The 3412 has a 120 GB hard drive).

____________________________________________________________ ____________

So it looks like things are slowly moving along, I can't wait to get rid of these analog channels so they can finally put some more HD on our bandwidth starved system and get the 550 MHz systems at least up to par with the rest of the Bay Area.

Laters,
Mikef5

So it looks like things are slowly moving along, I can't wait to get rid of these analog channels so they can finally put some more HD on our bandwidth starved system and get the 550 MHz systems at least up to par with the rest of the Bay Area.
Is this wishful thinking or is there some near term event that would get rid of analog?

If Comcast doesn't do something soon, I along with many others in 550mhz areas will be switching to DBS!

If Comcast doesn't do something soon, I along with many others in 550mhz areas will be switching to DBS!
Ironically there are also people sticking with Comcast precisely because they have analog service which is much more convenient than using a set top box with every tv. If they lost analog and are forced to use STBs, they figure they might as well go DBS for better programming options. There is some crossover point where it makes sense to shutoff analog, but I don't think we've reached that point today.

I think right now it makes sense to move a few analog channels nobody really cares about to digital only which will alleviate near term demand for 550 systems.

thanks for the good news about the HDMI/Dolby 5.1 issue... is this firmware gonna be the same upgrade as the other cable systems have gotten?

The 3412 has a 120 GB hard drive).

Mikef5
I'm surprised that they are still only going to put such a small hard drive in it.
Brian

thanks for the good news about the HDMI/Dolby 5.1 issue... is this firmware gonna be the same upgrade as the other cable systems have gotten?
It has to be different, that other firmware has been out in other systems for months and the FW Mr. J is talking about will not be ready for another 2 months.

He also mentions the first 3412s being shipped in 4 to 5 months, well, they also have been available for months in other systems. Granted, we can't use them here yet, but it seems as if these Comcast systems operate as separate little companies when it comes to this sort of stuff. Surely, Mr. J knows that the 3412 has been shipping for awhile now, (in fact IIRC, I've read that Comcast isn't even receiving anymore 64XX STBs from Motorola), and that the HDMI audio issue was fixed awhile back as well. It's like the bay area Comcast systems operate in their own little vacuum, "unaware" of what's happening elsewhere in the country.

As far as analog channel longevity, as it stands right now, cable is not allowed to provide analog signals after the 2009 shutoff according to a Mark Schubin report on the current telecom bill.

The full text is in the following link,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7194651#post7194651
Comcast New Technology Test - AVS Forum

I'm surprised that they are still only going to put such a small hard drive in it.
Brian
Comcast's focus is on VOD, the DVR was a knee-jerk repsonse to the satcos and their DVR offerings.

As far as analog channel longevity, as it stands right now, cable is not allowed to provide analog signals after the 2009 shutoff according to a Mark Schubin report on the current telecom bill.

The full text is in the following link,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7194651#post7194651
Comcast New Technology Test - AVS Forum
I don't think that is what the article says. He says that is one interpretation of the dropped language regarding analog on cable after 2009. From what I read, what happened is the language that allowed for analog on cable got dropped and there was no replacement language that said analog would be barred, so this leaves up to interpretation what is meant by the dropped language. It could be as simple as an oversight or it could be designed this way. Second point Schubin made is the bill hasn't been approved and might not be in its current form. Since it hasn't been approved I don't think it says anything about how things currently stand, but rather how they could stand if the bill is approved. The cutoff date however has already been approved but apparently what the cutoff date means hasn't been approved yet. How's that for government hedging? :)

Those analog conversion and analog carriage provisions were removed from the final bill, still awaiting approval as this is being written. According to at least some cable operators, that means they will not be permitted to offer analog versions of digital broadcasts after the analog cutoff date.

If their interpretation of the legislation is correct and the removed language is taken as a guide, then only owners of digital cable-ready TVs or adapters would be able to watch digital broadcasts via cable. That would probably leave a majority of any broadcaster’s audience without access to station programming after analog cutoff.

Of course, that interpretation of the legislation may well prove to be wrong, and some legislators have already promised to fix the problem (if it exists) with a new law. It’s also possible that the legislation currently stuck in Congress will not be approved or that, after it becomes law, it will be changed, just as the 1997 law was.

I agree, as it stands it's not the final word, and in fact the whole DTV legislation is now on hold due to the fact that it is actually a part of a large spending bill and not separate legislation. The current bill is screwed up now because of conflicting language about Medicare between the House and Senate versions. But, if the Medicare problem wasn't holding up the bill it would have been signed by the President in it's current configuration. You have to wonder if we will ever have an analog shutoff.. :p

DTV legislation: It may not be over yet!

Feb 27, 2006 1:57 PM
Beyond The Headlines e-newsletter

After months of squabbling, Congress finally passed a controversial budget-reconciliation bill that set a deadline for the 2009 shutdown of analog television. President Bush signed the legislation into law Feb. 8. It’s over now, right?

Well, not quite.

It seems that due to a clerical typo the House and Senate bills were not identical, as the law said it must be. The Senate version contained a 13-month subsidy for Medicare patients’ equipment, while the House provided 39 months for equipment. The final bill sent from the House to the president’s desk contained the Senate’s 13-month limit. The error, apparently the fault of a Congressional clerk, resulted in $2 billion spending difference between the two bills.

What does this have to do with DTV? Everything, since the entire DTV legislative package is contained in this $39 billion dollar spending package. If the legislation is found not to be valid, neither is the new DTV policy.

In a less contentious time, members of Congress would simply vote to fix the technicality. But since the legislation is highly controversial due to its severe spending cuts for social programs, it barely passed both bodies in the first place. Neither body wants to revisit the issue in fear that a second vote may rip the entire bill apart. Several legislators, feeling pressure from constituents, have indicated they may vote against the measure if the opportunity arises again.

Don’t expect the matter to be ignored. One taxpayer is already suing in an attempt to topple the legislation, which a court is very like to do. Congressional leaders are currently at an impasse.

http://broadcastengineering.com/newsletters/bth/20060227/dtv-legislation-yet-20060226/
DTV legislation: It may not be over yet!

Has anyone else lost KGOHD and KQEDHD Saturday night?

I am also in San Jose(95112, but on the border with 95113), and I had lost the whole 117.x channels.

I tried powercycling, re-scan, re-attach cables, etc. But still can not find where they went. I do find SD channels of them in 116-117 range that I wasn't aware of before, but no sight of HD.

Let's me know if you found it.

I am also in San Jose(95112, but on the border with 95113), and I had lost the whole 117.x channels.

I tried powercycling, re-scan, re-attach cables, etc. But still can not find where they went. I do find SD channels of them in 116-117 range that I wasn't aware of before, but no sight of HD.

Let's me know if you found it.


The problem was on Comcast's end.
I had those channels back on Sunday.

While the audio issue definitely needs to be resolved, I'm really waiting for them to fix that darn remote-lag issue. It sometimes gets so bad that I actually leave the room, get something to eat, come back and find that it's still thinking about the buttons I pushed 5 minutes ago.

The problem was on Comcast's end.
I had those channels back on Sunday.

I still can not find it. Does anyone know where did they moved the 117.x channels to.(QAM wise?)

Thanks in advance.

I think I mentioned something awhile back about CBS going for the gold when contracts are renewed with cablecos, the following is from a Hollywood Reporter article condensing some of the activities at an investor conference in NY,

************************************************************ ******
In a late session with CBS Corp. president and CEO Leslie Moonves, the executive said his company was close to announcing its first deal with an unspecified cable operator to get retransmission-consent dollars for CBS.

"We are going to begin to get paid for our signal in a very short period of time," said Moonves, who later elaborated that a deal would be announced in the next six weeks.

Since CBS' split from the rest of the Viacom cable networks, which leveraged CBS and other brands to get carriage for newer channels, Moonves has been pledging to get new revenue on retransmission consent as a stand-alone property. He would not offer details but hinted that its value would be comparative with license fees paid to cable services that eventually could "amount to hundreds of millions in revenues to the CBS network."
************************************************************ ******

Of course will all know who is going to end up paying those "hundreds of millions"...

anyone having issues with DD5.1 coming on?

i used to have this once a month or 2.

now, every 2-3 days. and i hate having to unplug the 6412 everytime...

i used to use the SWAP tuners trick but that stopped working.

************************************************************ ******

"We are going to begin to get paid for our signal in a very short period of time," said Moonves, who later elaborated that a deal would be announced in the next six weeks.

************************************************************ ******


Can you clarify where this applies? Is this payment for the right to make programming available via services such as OnDemand?

Thanks,
Kevin

I still can not find it. Does anyone know where did they moved the 117.x channels to.(QAM wise?)

Thanks in advance.

In San Jose (95132), the KGO and KQED digital channels are now located on 88.x

Can you clarify where this applies? Is this payment for the right to make programming available via services such as OnDemand?

Thanks,
Kevin
I'm sure that is part of it, but what Moonves is primarily talking about is getting cash from cable for the CBS signals that cable carries, which would include HD. When Viacom split off the cable channels from the regular CBS broadcast signals it left the door open for either one or both to negotiate re-transmission agreements separately without having the hammer of "well, if you want our HD signal you'll have to take all of our cable channels as well. Moonves sees ESPN and the like getting huge amounts of cash for their signal and he wants CBS to get some of that too.

I've said for a long time that it's very possible that HD will become a "pay", or at least "pay more" type of service, you want HD, you will be paying more, otherwise all you get is a down-converted SD signal. Extreme maybe, but the possibility is there and CBS going for the cash for their broadcast signal is a step in that direction.

EXTREMELY inconvenient. Before, I could disable 7 and enable 7.1 and sweep the channels in a nice sequence. Now I have to enter 88, then channel up on my Harmony remote.

AND WHY WOULD THEY CHANGE a logical channel number (x.1 for the HD version of channel x) without any warning?

EXTREMELY inconvenient. Before, I could disable 7 and enable 7.1 and sweep the channels in a nice sequence. Now I have to enter 88, then channel up on my Harmony remote.

AND WHY WOULD THEY CHANGE a logical channel number (x.1 for the HD version of channel x) without any warning?
Just a guess but they are doing work on switching to all digital and the switching of channel lineups might mean they are trying to get the system setup for other changes down the line. I expect that won't be the last time that the channel lineup changes. As for why they didn't tell you, I would imagine that you are using your own box or tuner and not theirs or you won't know that they had made the changes because the Motorola box would have tuned to the new channel automatically. I already know that Comcast has added the new weather channel from channel 7 to the SaraMilgatos area, I use a LG-4200a tuner, and the Motorola box doesn't see it yet. A real waste of bandwidth that the 550 MHz systems can't afford and they didn't let us know that either so don't feel like the Lone Ranger. :rolleyes:

Laters,
Mikef5

Can you clarify where this applies? Is this payment for the right to make programming available via services such as OnDemand?

Thanks,
Kevin
"Moonves Predicts Nine-Figure Retrans Pot"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7229792#post7229792
Hot Off The Press! The Latest Television News and Info - AVS Forum

newbie question:

I did a recan last night (my TV has built-in HDTV tuner) and lost NBC on 11.1.
I found it on 81.1 but now only 480i 4:3, instead of 1080i 16:9 as before. How did this happen? Where is the 1080i version located now? Thanks!

BTW, I'm in Dublin

"Moonves Predicts Nine-Figure Retrans Pot"

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7229792#post7229792
Hot Off The Press! The Latest Television News and Info - AVS Forum

Thanks - that's exaclty what I needed. The one thing that especially interests me is the reference to internet distribution. Over the next 2-3 years, I am looking forward to dumping Comcast all together for an internet-based on demand TV service.

At $2/show, it's way too expensive today, but someone will eventually start to bundle programming like what is done today in cable and satellite.

Kevin

Hi,

I have the 6412 Phase III tuner. I have it connected to my display via DVI.
The HD channels are all 16:9 of course, but the analog channels are all displayed at your standard 4:3. Is there a way to view those channels in the stretched 16:9 format? Using the stretch mode on the TV itself doesn't keep the correct aspect ratio and doing so also affects the HD channels so that they're also stretched. Is there a setting on the 6412 unit itself that will allow me to stretch the picture on the analog channels? Funny thing is, I have another HD box in the other room and the analog channels are stretched there. Any help? :confused:

An aesthetic inqury: why do people want to "stretch" 4:3 to 16:9?

Hi,

I have the 6412 Phase III tuner. I have it connected to my display via DVI.
The HD channels are all 16:9 of course, but the analog channels are all displayed at your standard 4:3. Is there a way to view those channels in the stretched 16:9 format? Using the stretch mode on the TV itself doesn't keep the correct aspect ratio and doing so also affects the HD channels so that they're also stretched. Is there a setting on the 6412 unit itself that will allow me to stretch the picture on the analog channels? Funny thing is, I have another HD box in the other room and the analog channels are stretched there. Any help? :confused:

With your remote, press Cable, Power, Menu. Go down to 4:3 Override and change it to 480P. Press Power again and you should be OK.

newbie question:

I did a recan last night (my TV has built-in HDTV tuner) and lost NBC on 11.1.
I found it on 81.1 but now only 480i 4:3, instead of 1080i 16:9 as before. How did this happen? Where is the 1080i version located now? Thanks!

BTW, I'm in Dublin
81.1 is probably the ADS simulcast version of NBC.

The main NBC channel on my system (KNTV) is sent 3 times.
Analog SD
Digital SD (analog SD converted to digital SD by Comcast)
Digital HD (HD transmision from KNTV carried as HD by Comcast)

maxandy,
Try setting the 4:3 OVERRIDE to 480I. Do this on the 6412 by power off then press menu. I see where someone else recommended 480P, that might work too.

After that you can tune to a SD channel and set your monitor to a special setting that stretches the picture sides more than the middle. It's called something different for most all HD sets, Sony calls it Widezoom, Panasonic calls it Just, Sharp calls it S. Stretch, Samsumg and JVC call it Panorama, and so on.

An aesthetic inqury: why do people want to "stretch" 4:3 to 16:9?
It's not only aesthetic. If you have a CRT or Plasma screen, displaying a 4:3 image with black bars on the side, can cause burn-in.

As for aesthetics, a 4:3 image in the middle of a 16:9 screen just looks kinda stupid to a lot of people. It is also small, if your screen is 32" or smaller. The larger the widescreen, the less problems people have with only partially filling the screen, generally.

The cheaper models, such as Syntax, Maxent, etc, don't have very good stretch capabilities. But, as someone said, Sony, Panasonic, etc have some very good strecth capabilities, wherein the image is only stretched on the sides, so the majority of the picture doesn't have the fat look.

Thanks - that's exaclty what I needed. The one thing that especially interests me is the reference to internet distribution. Over the next 2-3 years, I am looking forward to dumping Comcast all together for an internet-based on demand TV service.

At $2/show, it's way too expensive today, but someone will eventually start to bundle programming like what is done today in cable and satellite.

Kevin
The ATT LightSpeed system is going to do that very thing, in fact they are currently moving into San Ramon, Comcast headquarters in the Bay Area.. :D

There's some good info in the link below,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638947&page=3
AT&T Lightspeed - AVS Forum

After an email exchange with the City Manager's office here in Santa Rosa it seems pretty clear Comcast is continuing to drag it's feet for reasons unknown to the Franchise Board. Comcast has had free reign to upgrade this system for going on 36 mos, yet essentially nothing has happened other than the addition of relatively slow HSI.

I'd love to see ATT come to town, at the very least to see if it will jump-start Comcast into doing something.

The ATT LightSpeed system is going to do that very thing, in fact they are currently moving into San Ramon, Comcast headquarters in the Bay Area.. :D

There's some good info in the link below,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638947&page=3
AT&T Lightspeed - AVS Forum

After an email exchange with the City Manager's office here in Santa Rosa it seems pretty clear Comcast is continuing to drag it's feet for reasons unknown to the Franchise Board. Comcast has had free reign to upgrade this system for going on 36 mos, yet essentially nothing has happened other than the addition of relatively slow HSI.

I'd love to see ATT come to town, at the very least to see if it will jump-start Comcast into doing something.

Man, Walnut Creek just wants to sue everyone. You'd think they would embrace AT&T so they could officially stick their nose up at Comcast without looking back. Does anyone know, on average, how much Comast pays each city for franchise rights?

Man, Walnut Creek just wants to sue everyone. You'd think they would embrace AT&T so they could officially stick their nose up at Comcast without looking back. Does anyone know, on average, how much Comast pays each city for franchise rights?
I don't know about average, but just look at your bill, the amount is right there. In Santa Rosa for a $75.68 bill the amount is $4.33+$0.42+$3.57, around $8 a month. Of course, none of that is paid by Comcast, the sub pays it. They also may have agreed to pay for a public broadcasting center, bandwidth for city use, TP for City Hall bathrooms, etc... :D

If you Google cable franchise costs there is a lot of info, ideally cablecos would like to do away with local franchising and do it at a regional level or even state level. I believe Time Warner just got the franchise for the whole state of Texas, which I believe means, that anywhere TW wants to put their cable, they don't have to deal with the local municipalities.

It's not only aesthetic. If you have a CRT or Plasma screen, displaying a 4:3 image with black bars on the side, can cause burn-in.

As for aesthetics, a 4:3 image in the middle of a 16:9 screen just looks kinda stupid to a lot of people. It is also small, if your screen is 32" or smaller. The larger the widescreen, the less problems people have with only partially filling the screen, generally.

The cheaper models, such as Syntax, Maxent, etc, don't have very good stretch capabilities. But, as someone said, Sony, Panasonic, etc have some very good strecth capabilities, wherein the image is only stretched on the sides, so the majority of the picture doesn't have the fat look.

Gary,

You've been hiding for a while. On my 65", pillars are just fine. I've got my contrast and brightness turned down, no fear of burn in here.

Does anybody know if ATT/SBC is on the way with Lightspeed in the SJ area? Over the last few years, I've seen plenty of fiber being pulled in various parts of town. I do not know if it was SBC or Comcast behind it, but it's there under the streets.
Comcast's current offerings here, especially HD, are kinda mediocre at best, plus they're pricey. Satellite isn't much better with their own set of problems and expenses, expecially Dish's infamous hw support and ridiculous $299 upgrade to LEASE a HD DVR.
WTF ever happened to SBC's HomeZone, their stopgap until Lightspeed arrives, merging DSL and Dish into 2Wire's "MediaPortal" combining HD/DVR/DVD/Media Hub in one very cool unit? I want my damn HomeZone!!!

Lightspeed is due to trial in San Ramon later this year, I believe. I think there are some lingering hardware issues and it may take a next gen platform before you see full scale rollouts. I wouldn't expect any significant availability before '07 and it's anyone's guess where that will be.

Remember Pac Bell's previous initiatives. Of course SBC is a different company but who knows when they will get all this together.

Actually, I've heard they would try to use less than 5 Mbps to provide 720p. And the whole bandwidth would be 20-25 Mbps for all the services they plan to bundle.

It would be better if Verizon encroached on ATT's turf here because FIOS won't skimp so much on the bandwidth. Plus you wouldn't deal with unproven IPTV for HD.

IPTV is hardly what I would call unproven. You can argue the last mile issue, but not IPTV itself. Unfortunately like much of the wireless technology, the US is woefully behind the rest of the world in terms of rollout schedules.

There is currently a lot of consolidation happening with hardware vendors as big players like Motorola, Cisco, Alcatel and others position themselves for major rollouts in the next couple of years. Except others like HP and Nortel to snap up STB type companies to get into the fray as well. Just because you aren't seeing it in the homes in your neighborhood yet doesn't mean there isn't major effort going on. At any large networking hardware trade show these days, triple play services is all the buzz and the video component is one of those legs. That's been the push for a year or two now.

Have to have that infrastructure in place before you can plug the box into the wall.

BTW earlier in the week a bunch of other ADS digital simulcast channels showed up.

As expected they cleared up RF100 (all the channels on RF100 were duplicated elsewhere previously) So it looks like they have room for at least 2 more HDTV channels based on that move.

Don't know when it happened but RF78 used to be some leased channel but now they got rid of that and are using it for digital channels also.

Those are the reasons they came up with HomeZone in the first place, as an alternative to Lightspeed in areas that will not get it for a while, or not at all.

I would really like to know the holdup. I have a strong suspicion that it's Dish' doing. They're probably uncomfortable with 3rd party products accessing their transmissions, even if they are receiving the programming revenue. There is also the issue of their $6 "dvr" fee. They are barely justified in charging it now. Could Dish continue to ask for it if you are using a non-Dish receiver? ATT would probably want to keep that fee to help recoup what THEY spent to develop it.

I already have ATT phone, LD, Cingular, and DSL. I'd gladly switch back to Dish through ATT if ATT ever releases the MediaPortal. Plus, there's the added benefit of the bundled discount.

I know there are IPTV deployments in Europe but AFAIK, the ATT/SBC deployment would be the first one in the US, or the first major one. And nobody appears to be doing HD over IPTV yet?

I've read accounts of how Microsoft's IPTV platform is having problems replicating some features that you already have now.

Anyways, it doesn't sound for instance like dual-tuner HDTV recordings or having more than one HDTV box in a household is something that will be handled easily, if they are limited to around 20 Mbps.

The video component of Homezone is simply resale of DISH services through SBC/ATT in a bundled services deal. That marketing arrangement has been around for awhile now, just not necessarily under that name. AT&T is in the catbird's seat on that one and you can fully expect DISH to be kicked to the curb just as soon as Lightspeed gets up to speed(pun inteneded) in those areas.

FiOS is IPTV.

Your basic IPTV primer is here (http://www.iptvinformation.net/IPTV+FAQ.aspx)

Lab tests of Lightspeed are proven. It's the scaling into the real world that seems to be the problem and all we have for sure is finger pointing between the hardware and software guys as to who's at fault.

For background, the hardware side is largely provided by Alcatel's Timetra group edge routers and some Redback DSLAM stuff. Both of those are highly regarded in the hardware industry while the software side has a large component from Microsoft. Draw your own conclusions.

I've heard FIOS is not using IPTV for their channel lineup but will be using IPTV only for VOD.

I know there are IPTV deployments in Europe but AFAIK, the ATT/SBC deployment would be the first one in the US, or the first major one. And nobody appears to be doing HD over IPTV yet?


Just up the road in the Sacramento area Surewest has rolled out IPTV, with a pretty impressive HD channel lineup. I posted a link a page or so back.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=638947&highlight=surewest
AT&T Lightspeed - AVS Forum

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=613778&highlight=surewest
HDNet on SureWest via IP & FTTP - AVS Forum

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=595375&highlight=surewest
SureWest to launch IP HDTV - AVS Forum

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=568382&highlight=surewest
Surewest announces HDTV IPTV - AVS Forum

http://personal.surewest.com/digital_tv/
SureWest - Personal Communications - Digital Television

Man, Walnut Creek just wants to sue everyone. You'd think they would embrace AT&T so they could officially stick their nose up at Comcast without looking back. Does anyone know, on average, how much Comast pays each city for franchise rights?
After asking questions and a bit of research, 5% is the most common number.

TV over the internet? Oh I don't think so.

If I ever turn on the TV and instead of the show I want to watch I get "Buffering..." or "Cannot connect to server" I'm going postal. Just, you know, fair warning.

Technically, IPTV doesn't run over the Internet. It's an edge network, not totally different from the one you're already using.

After asking questions and a bit of research, 5% is the most common number.

So a city would essentially be getting the same amount regardless if they franchised cable or FiOS. Or in Walnut Creek's case, they would be getting something rather then nothing.

I don't believe Verizon has enough presence in the Bay Area that you will see any significant rollout of FiOS here. Like it or not we're stuck with Lightspeed as the only near term alternative for IPTV. For the pockets of Verizon customers, it's probably nothing on the IPTV side for the forseeable future.

BTW, there's nothing that says Comcast couldn't use the technology in future upgrades. Their current infrastructure will support about 35-40 HDTV channels per comments from the CEO last fall. Remains to be seen how long before competitive pressures force them to upgrade. If AT&T struggles with Lightspeed, or worse, abandons the program at some later date, we'll be stuck with what we have. I think this latter option is less likely because legacy telco business is dying and the RBOCs absolutely MUST get into new services like video in order to maintain revenue streams and still be viable entities in 10 or 20 years.

It wasn't but a few years ago that MCI/Worldcom and AT&T dominated the data pipe backbone market and within the last year both have disappeared. Have to be nimble to survive.

So a city would essentially be getting the same amount regardless if they franchised cable or FiOS. Or in Walnut Creek's case, they would be getting something rather then nothing.
From what I've read, yes. If both were in the city they would get 5% from both, if the telco like ATT agreed to pay it. Currently I don't believe they have to. Cable's contention is that the ATT product is cable TV and should be subject to the same regulations a cable. ATT's position is of course the opposite, that their product is not cable TV and should not have to deal with individual franchises, just like regular telephone service.

I think ATT's position has some merit as cable TV delivers all those channels to your box and you select one to view. I believe with IPTV you select a channel and that's all that is sent down the line to your box/display. I didn't read BobM's link yet so I could be wrong about that.

In San Jose (95132), the KGO and KQED digital channels are now located on 88.x

Eurka. With my Samsung T451 ATSC/QAM turner, it had been a pain to hunt them down. Moving through empty channels seems to trigger an reboot, or just hang-up that requires re-boot.

Thanks again.

If I wanted to get a DCT-5100 from comcast, any ideas on how to get this STB? Is there some central warehouse that gets all the boxes people turn in? I seemed to get better analog reception with this box than the current boxes. I called comcast and they did not seem to be of much help (other than to check back frequently with the local office).

Any suggestions appreciated.

If I wanted to get a DCT-5100 from comcast, any ideas on how to get this STB? Is there some central warehouse that gets all the boxes people turn in? I seemed to get better analog reception with this box than the current boxes. I called comcast and they did not seem to be of much help (other than to check back frequently with the local office).

Any suggestions appreciated.

There's no one master DCT Dungeon. Check at a customer counter that is in the same building as a working office. Tell them you want a box with a DVI connector instead of HDMI. A picture of a DVI connector could help the service person locate one.

There's no one master DCT Dungeon. Check at a customer counter that is in the same building as a working office. Tell them you want a box with a DVI connector instead of HDMI. A picture of a DVI connector could help the service person locate one.

Thanks Barovelli. Any ideas which ones are working offices in the east bay? I've been to newark office and it's just one person inside most of the time (so I'm guessing that is not a working office). I think fremont is similar, but I haven't been inside that one (only driven by). Let me know if you have any suggestions.

@Barovelli:

...and while you're in a question-answering mood...can you give an estimate of when the San Mateo system will get ADS channels? (Or is there a posted estimate someplace?)

Hi all,

I just deployed a FusionHDTV Gold 5 PCI card in my HTPC. I installed the Fusion HDTV software from DVICO's site, version 3.30.01, for Windows XP. I'm in San Jose, Berryessa area. The HD picture quality is amazing!

FusionHDTV scanned for HDTV chanels fine, but couldn't remap any of them except:
D2 KTVUHD
D5 KPIX HD

The rest showed up as the RF channel:
D830 D830
D831 D831
... etc.

From what I understand (mostly from reading AVSForum), the remap info is in the PSIP.

Additionally, the FusionHDTV software's EPG couldn't get any live program information for any chanels except KPIX HD. Every other chanels show "NO INFORMATION". I think this information is also in the PSIP stream?

Does anyone have the same setup and not have these problems? Is the Fusion having problems with PSIP or is Comcast not re-broadcasting the streams?

Thanks for any pointers,
Khoa

Khoa--

Your experience is normal for now. There have been times when there was PSIP for KQED and KNTV, as well as KPIX and KTVU, on Comcast. But lately those have been missing. I think that you'll find KTVU EPG info if you scroll toward future times. They seem not to continue sending the current program's info after it starts. I don't know if the PSIP info for KQED, KNTV, etc. will return when Comcast has finished juggling things around for their ADS rollout, but I hope so since that's the only way (besides manual entry) to schedule recordings on the Fusion tuner for cable stations.

Thanks (again) TPeterson.

Your information just saved me many hours trying to get things configured with the FusionHDTV setup.

I looked into the TitanTV link for EPG since they get the info from the net. Though EPG works with TitanTV, the chanel changing link seems to be based on the remapped chanel numbers (D2 instead of D780 for KTVUHD) to work, so it doesn't seem to work for the non remapped chanels :-( .

DVICO is advertising BeyondTV for DVR type of functionality with the FusionHDTV card. Would you know if the Comcast issue with PSIP will cripple BeyondTV EPG as well?

Thanks,
Khoa

Beyond TV (and MCE and all the other similar products) do not work with digital cable TV. There are some experimental versions of, IIRC, SageTV and MythTV (Linux) that work with QAM, but otherwise you'll have to wait for DViCO to take that next step to integrate TTV with the FusionHDTV app, which is "on their list".

@Barovelli:

...and while you're in a question-answering mood...can you give an estimate of when the San Mateo system will get ADS channels? (Or is there a posted estimate someplace?)

Sorry, out of my turf. Mikef5 might be a better source.

While on the topic - anyone seen a DCT700 with a IR extender? Not a blaster, an extender that allows you to hide the little bugger and extend the IR receiver to the open?

Beyond TV (and MCE and all the other similar products) do not work with digital cable TV. There are some experimental versions of, IIRC, SageTV and MythTV (Linux) that work with QAM, but otherwise you'll have to wait for DViCO to take that next step to integrate TTV with the FusionHDTV app, which is "on their list".Ah...but see also AllenDB's thread about his programs Playlist_Manager and Record_This (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=591195). Record_This now works with Fusion cards and sw to add QAM scheduling from Zap2It EPG data (the same root source as TitanTV's data). It's a work in progress too, but far better than no EPG. ;)

Sorry, out of my turf. Mikef5 might be a better source.

While on the topic - anyone seen a DCT700 with a IR extender? Not a blaster, an extender that allows you to hide the little bugger and extend the IR receiver to the open?Thanks for the reply...Mike, any thoughts?

(The DCTs are "out of my turf". :))

Thanks for the reply...Mike, any thoughts?

(The DCTs are "out of my turf". :))
I use to have thoughts but they hurt my head so I try not to have to many of them :D

Just so other people know, the shift to all digital is happening the problem is that they only have a 4 hour time frame to work in, I believe it's after midnight when they do the tests and upgrades.

Laters,
Mikef5

It seems like I've lost PSIP info for KGO HD. I ended up having to record the Academy Awards using KGO-SD 7.2 because I couldn't find 7.1 anymore.

I'm pretty sure there's no ADS activity here in Santa Rosa, but it seems to be affecting us nonetheless.

:(

Kevin

Hi All,

I've got a new TV that has a built-in QAM tuner (Toshiba 42hp95) and also a PC that has a FusionHDTV5 Lite. I'm also in the Mountain View area subscribed to Comcast cable. After doing the initial channel scan on the TV, it picked up all the analog channels and a whole bunch of digital channels. On the TV, I was able to get 4 channels in HD -
NBC 116-1
Fox 79-2
CBS 79-1
??? 111-2

My FusionHDTV5 Lite gets those channels, and also gets 2 additional HD channels
ABC 117-1
KQED 117-2

So, I then tried to manually tune my TV to these 117-x channels, but it comes back saying that those channels are encrypted.

Does anyone know what might be going on here?

Hi All,

I've got a new TV that has a built-in QAM tuner (Toshiba 42hp95) and also a PC that has a FusionHDTV5 Lite. I'm also in the Mountain View area subscribed to Comcast cable. After doing the initial channel scan on the TV, it picked up all the analog channels and a whole bunch of digital channels. On the TV, I was able to get 4 channels in HD -
NBC 116-1
Fox 79-2
CBS 79-1
??? 111-2

My FusionHDTV5 Lite gets those channels, and also gets 2 additional HD channels
ABC 117-1
KQED 117-2

So, I then tried to manually tune my TV to these 117-x channels, but it comes back saying that those channels are encrypted.

Does anyone know what might be going on here?
111.2 is KRON-HD (which is sending out an old HD-NET loop)

Don't know what is wrong with your TV QAM tuner. Both ABC and KQED come in fine on my Sharp Aquos TV and my MyHD MDP-130 tuner. Those channels have PSIP information and are mapped to 7.x and 9.x respectively.

Thanks for the data point sfhub - it does seem like the QAM tuner in the TV doesn't like those channels for some reason. (One other thing that I noticed is that Encore is also on a 117-x channels, maybe the TV doesn't like the fact that _any_ encrypted content is on the same major channel?). Anyhow, Comcast is sending me a Cablecard on Wednesday to test with, and I'll post back here with the results.

Encore, aka KQED 9.2, is not encrypted, nor are any of the 117.x subs, last I knew.

Hi All,

I've got a new TV that has a built-in QAM tuner (Toshiba 42hp95) and also a PC that has a FusionHDTV5 Lite. I'm also in the Mountain View area subscribed to Comcast cable. After doing the initial channel scan on the TV, it picked up all the analog channels and a whole bunch of digital channels. On the TV, I was able to get 4 channels in HD -
NBC 116-1
Fox 79-2
CBS 79-1
??? 111-2

My FusionHDTV5 Lite gets those channels, and also gets 2 additional HD channels
ABC 117-1
KQED 117-2

So, I then tried to manually tune my TV to these 117-x channels, but it comes back saying that those channels are encrypted.

Does anyone know what might be going on here?
If you haven't already tried it, see if you can get 117-1 before 8pm when KQED-HD turns on.

peter

I live in the cable marshlands of Sunnyvale.
I have regular analog cable service. However so far I have been able to get the HD network feeds and PBS feed with my QAM/ATSC tuner.) However PBS 9.1 (and the rest of the 9.x group) are no longer there for the past few weeks (about the time 9.1 was starting to broadcast HD at 5pm.) Does anyone know where 9.1 can be found now?

BY the way, I have never been able to find the 4.2 for KRON-HD either. Maybe this channel is "exempted" from having to be carried unencrypted?

Thanks,
Durny1

Durny1--

KQED's PSIP on Comcast was AWOL for a while but seems now to be back. If you haven't tried a channel rescan lately that may fix your KQED problems. KRON's HD-Net feed is on channel 111.2 (with no PSIP) and there's an encrypted program (Showtime HD?) on 111.1 that may be causing your DTV tuner to give up on channel 111.

Durny1--

KQED's PSIP on Comcast was AWOL for a while but seems now to be back. If you haven't tried a channel rescan lately that may fix your KQED problems. KRON's HD-Net feed is on channel 111.2 (with no PSIP) and there's an encrypted program (Showtime HD?) on 111.1 that may be causing your DTV tuner to give up on channel 111.

Cool! Thanks for the tip. I'll try them tonight.
Durny1

Does anyone know how Closed Captions are encoded in the Digital Simulcast channels? I am studying the possibility of decoding these captions in software. For the regular ATSC channels, the standard is EIA-708/608, where the captions are stored in MPEG picture user data packets. However, this does not seem to be true for the Digital Simulcast channels. (My Samsung's built-in tuner can decode the captions just fine so they are there somewhere.)

spear--

Don't have ADS here yet to play with. You can analyze a captured TS using (free) TSReader Lite and it will tell you what kind of CC (CC/DTVCC) are in the stream.

Hi all;

I'm an HDTV newbie in Corte Madera, CA. I have a 1-week old Motorola 6412. While I'm enjoying the new system in general, I'm a little dissappointed with the paltry number of HD channels available from Comcast. From what I can tell, I have 702 - 705, 707, 709 (after 8), 719, 720, 722, 723, 725, and (for me) 734 Starz, plus HD on demand with its meager 6 or so HD movies offered.

So 13 HD channels, which I could ramp up to 17 if I splurged and got the other 4 premium movie packages.

All of this is a lead-in for my actual question: I see a lot of you talking about the channels you can get with your QAM tuners. Does this give you access to more HD channels than I can get with the STB? What's really available via QAM?

Please forgive me if I missed an FAQ, but I didn't find anything on this documented anywhere.

Thanks,
bw

bobwalden,
Nothing more with QAM tuner. This setup without CableCARD gives just the networks and with CableCARD everything else you are authorized to view, but no guide info.

702 - 705, 707, 709 (after 8), 719, 720, 722, 723, 725, and (for me) 734 Starz, plus HD on demand
...

Yep that's pretty much the entire lineup. 725 is just a title screen about 98% of the time too... Welcome to the bleeding edge!

Check the on-demand stuff every so often, they sometimes have some good movies, and free too. In the last couple months I've seen Close Encounters, Lawrence of Arabia (not OAR though) and a few others.

Durny1--

KQED's PSIP on Comcast was AWOL for a while but seems now to be back. If you haven't tried a channel rescan lately that may fix your KQED problems. KRON's HD-Net feed is on channel 111.2 (with no PSIP) and there's an encrypted program (Showtime HD?) on 111.1 that may be causing your DTV tuner to give up on channel 111.

Well, that didn't work. Tried 111.2 for KRON-HD and 9.1 again for PBS-HD. Nothing. Re-scanning didn't change anything either. Thanks, TPeterson, it was worth a try.

To re-cap for others, I live in Sunnyvale and have analog Comcast. I have been able to pick up 2.1, 5.1, 71. and 33.1 for the network HD channels, and 9.1 for PBS-HD. Since the beginning of February, 9.1 (and the rest od the 9.x lot) has disappeared. I also was never able to find KRON-HD anywhere (before or after.) If any one in the area, and using analog cable, knows where 9.1 went, please let me know.

Thanks, folks,
Durny1

Hi all;

I'm an HDTV newbie in Corte Madera, CA. I have a 1-week old Motorola 6412. While I'm enjoying the new system in general, I'm a little dissappointed with the paltry number of HD channels available from Comcast. From what I can tell, I have 702 - 705, 707, 709 (after 8), 719, 720, 722, 723, 725, and (for me) 734 Starz, plus HD on demand with its meager 6 or so HD movies offered.

So 13 HD channels, which I could ramp up to 17 if I splurged and got the other 4 premium movie packages.

All of this is a lead-in for my actual question: I see a lot of you talking about the channels you can get with your QAM tuners. Does this give you access to more HD channels than I can get with the STB? What's really available via QAM?

Please forgive me if I missed an FAQ, but I didn't find anything on this documented anywhere.

Thanks,
bw
bw,
You shouldn't feel so bad. Things could be worse. I live in the cable slums of Sunnyvale. My HD channel line up consists of 702, 703, 705, 707, 709, 722, 723 & 730 (HBO). We don't have VOD in my area. So, a whopping 8 HD channels, seven if I didn't subscribe to HBO.

If you had an ATSC (over-the-air digital) Tuner, you could also get the WB and UPN HD broadcasts (although they will be one network soon), plus all local digital broadcasts which aren't HD, but are crystal clear. (They almost look like HD compared to the grainy analog versions that Comcast provides.)

Hi all;

I'm an HDTV newbie in Corte Madera, CA. I have a 1-week old Motorola 6412. While I'm enjoying the new system in general, I'm a little dissappointed with the paltry number of HD channels available from Comcast. From what I can tell, I have 702 - 705, 707, 709 (after 8), 719, 720, 722, 723, 725, and (for me) 734 Starz, plus HD on demand with its meager 6 or so HD movies offered.

So 13 HD channels, which I could ramp up to 17 if I splurged and got the other 4 premium movie packages.

All of this is a lead-in for my actual question: I see a lot of you talking about the channels you can get with your QAM tuners. Does this give you access to more HD channels than I can get with the STB? What's really available via QAM?

Please forgive me if I missed an FAQ, but I didn't find anything on this documented anywhere.

Thanks,
bw

From another thread:
Here in Boston, just got the message light today announcing UHD as a permanent add.

What is it about the Bay Area that Comcast can't deal with? Why are we being kept behind the rest of the country with HD channel additions???

To re-cap for others, I live in Sunnyvale and have analog Comcast. I have been able to pick up 2.1, 5.1, 71. and 33.1 for the network HD channels, and 9.1 for PBS-HD. Since the beginning of February, 9.1 (and the rest od the 9.x lot) has disappeared. I also was never able to find KRON-HD anywhere (before or after.) If any one in the area, and using analog cable, knows where 9.1 went, please let me know.


I have analog Comcast in Santa Clara where PSIP info seems to have steadily disappeared over time. Of the HD channels, my Samsung TV's tuner now finds:

7.1 - KGO
79.1 - KPIX
79.2 - KTVU
111.8 - KRON
116.1 - KNTV

It cannot find KQED. The tuner seems to have a problem when two stations share the same channel but only one has PSIP info. However, my MythTV system does get KQED at 117.2, probably because I was manually specifying frequency and subchannel. (I had a similar problem before when ESPNHD was not yet encrypted and KNTV had PSIP info -- the TV's tuner could only see KNTV at 11.1 and not ESPNHD while the MythTV system could see both. When KNTV lost PSIP info, the tuner was then able to pick up both stations at 116.1 and 116.2.)

Huh. Here, today, the following have PSIP virtual channel IDs on my cable:

KTVU (2.1/79.2)
KPIX (5.1/79.1)
KGO (7.1/117.1, 7.2/117.7?, 7.3/117.8?) (IIRC)
KQED (9.1/117.2, 9.2/117.3, 9.3/117.4, 9.4/117.5, 9.5/117.6)

Recently KQED did not have PSIP on cable. Have you rescanned lately?

Have you rescanned lately?
Yes, a couple of days ago but there was no change. It used to be that all of the ones you listed had the proper virtual channel IDs (plus KNTV) but that has disappeared over time. First KNTV, then KTVU and KPIX, then a few weeks ago, KQED. I suppose it could by my TV that has the problem.

(By the way, thanks for the suggestion of using TSReader for my earlier question about ADS CC. Unfortunately, I use Linux so I am looking for an equivalent. Should also help figure out if the PSIP info is really missing.)

spear--

Here is the CVCT content, per TSReader, for rf117 that I captured just now. It seems unlikely that Comcast would be sending a different CVCT with the same program streams on 117 here and in Santa Clara!

Transport Stream ID 4121 (0x1019) Version 9 Channels 8

Channel: KGO HD (7.1) Program 1 TSID 4121 (0x1019)
Carrier 624000000 Modulation 3 ETM_location 0 Access Controlled 0
Hidden 0 Path 0 OOB 0 Hide Guide 1
Service Type 2 Source ID 5

Channel: KQED-HD (9.1) Program 2 TSID 4121 (0x1019)
Carrier 624000000 Modulation 3 ETM_location 0 Access Controlled 0
Hidden 0 Path 0 OOB 0 Hide Guide 1
Service Type 2 Source ID 0

Channel: ENCORE (9.2) Program 3 TSID 4121 (0x1019)
Carrier 624000000 Modulation 3 ETM_location 0 Access Controlled 0
Hidden 0 Path 0 OOB 0 Hide Guide 1
Service Type 2 Source ID 1

Channel: KQED-W (9.3) Program 4 TSID 4121 (0x1019)
Carrier 624000000 Modulation 3 ETM_location 0 Access Controlled 0
Hidden 0 Path 0 OOB 0 Hide Guide 1
Service Type 2 Source ID 3

Channel: KQED-L (9.4) Program 5 TSID 4121 (0x1019)
Carrier 624000000 Modulation 3 ETM_location 0 Access Controlled 0
Hidden 0 Path 0 OOB 0 Hide Guide 1
Service Type 2 Source ID 4

Channel: KQED-K (9.5) Program 6 TSID 4121 (0x1019)
Carrier 624000000 Modulation 3 ETM_location 0 Access Controlled 0
Hidden 0 Path 0 OOB 0 Hide Guide 1
Service Type 2 Source ID 6

Channel: KGO SD (7.2) Program 7 TSID 4121 (0x1019)
Carrier 624000000 Modulation 3 ETM_location 0 Access Controlled 0
Hidden 0 Path 0 OOB 0 Hide Guide 1
Service Type 2 Source ID 11

Channel: KGO DT (7.3) Program 8 TSID 4121 (0x1019)
Carrier 624000000 Modulation 3 ETM_location 0 Access Controlled 0
Hidden 0 Path 0 OOB 0 Hide Guide 1
Service Type 2 Source ID 7

Can't you run a Windows emulator to try TSReader? (Some people are willing to wear the hairiest shirts for their OS religions!) :D

If you haven't already tried it, see if you can get 117-1 before 8pm when KQED-HD turns on.

peter

Hi Peter,

Just tried it, and it still doesn't work - the behavior is somewhat different though. When I tune to 117-1 now, the TV kind of just hangs there and doesn't respond anymore - I have to power cycle it. This is different from what I was seeing earlier when it would report back that it was an encrypted channel.

Here is the CVCT content, per TSReader, for rf117 that I captured just now. It seems unlikely that Comcast would be sending a different CVCT with the same program streams on 117 here and in Santa Clara!
Huh. I just did a rescan and the KQED stations have the proper virtual channel IDs now (9.1 to 9.5). KTVU and KPIX are still at 79.x but I guess some people are seeing this, too.

It also picked up some more ADS channels at 119.x (CSPAN, Golf, CNN, ...)

I am seeing these channels on 98.x (Zanker/Montegue area). When will these be available through comcast STB? I am interested in Animal Planet ADS. Its kind of pain to browse through these directly on TV.

Huh. I just did a rescan and the KQED stations have the proper virtual channel IDs now (9.1 to 9.5). KTVU and KPIX are still at 79.x but I guess some people are seeing this, too.

It also picked up some more ADS channels at 119.x (CSPAN, Golf, CNN, ...)

Does anyone know if we'll be getting UHD back? Or if we will be getting TNT-HD, or any new HD channels at all? I had a lot of fun having UHD for the short time we had it during the Olympics and since it's the only source of Battlestar Galactica in HD I'm sorely dissapointed we are no longer recieving this channel. I haven't even heard a reasonable explanation of why UHD was taken off the channel lineup. :confused:

For those who are using the QAM tuner on your HDTV to scan for the .X HD channels, which Comcast package do you have? Did you have to order the HD service to begin? Ideally, I would love to order the very minimal package from them but yet be able to get those stations.

Thx.
John

John, the HD OTA retransmitted stations are part of the "basic tier" that must be included in Comcast's basic cable package. The others can (and likely all will eventually) be encrypted, except that (I assume) the ADS stations will be in the clear when the analog feeds are turned off.

Thanks so much. So, theoretically, I could order basic cable from Comcast with a cableCARD and get the FOX, CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS feeds?

Thx.
John

p.s. I too live in San Carlos and am trying to explore this option because OTA is not possible for me.

Thanks so much. So, theoretically, I could order basic cable from Comcast with a cableCARD and get the FOX, CBS, NBC, ABC and PBS feeds?

Thx.
John

p.s. I too live in San Carlos and am trying to explore this option because OTA is not possible for me.
Those HD channels are in the clear so you don't need a cableCARD. The future ADS channels part of the basic package will likely be in the clear also. I have basic pakage and Sharp Aquos with builtin QAM tuner and get those channels here.

Those HD channels are in the clear so you don't need a cableCARD. The future ADS channels part of the basic package will likely be in the clear also. I have basic pakage and Sharp Aquos with builtin QAM tuner and get those channels here.
hiker, have you ever tried streaming and recording stuff (say onto a HTPC) from the firewire output of your Aquos?

My Aquos doesn't have firewire out. It's the LC26D6U model, maybe the bigger models have firewire? I do have the DCT-6200 also which has working firewire out but never tried to record but it should work. I think only for clear channels?

My Aquos doesn't have firewire out. It's the LC26D6U model, maybe the bigger models have firewire? I do have the DCT-6200 also which has working firewire out but never tried to record but it should work. I think only for clear channels?
Ahh ok, I see, thanks for the response. I have a LC37D5U, which does have the firewire out. However, I have only been able to successfully record one or two broadcast HD channels from the Sharp's QAM to my HTPC. The rest seem to be 5C encoded....... but all the broadcast channels shouldn't be 5C encoded right? For month's I've been trying to figure out if it's because of the TVs QAM tuner that I can't record most of the broadcast content. Most people are using STBs to feed their HTPCs instead of from a built in QAM tuner like my Sharp and they all seem to be recording stuff just fine. I'm still wondering if it's the STB that are somehow removing the 5C encoding or something to that effect.

Huh. I just did a rescan and the KQED stations have the proper virtual channel IDs now (9.1 to 9.5). KTVU and KPIX are still at 79.x but I guess some people are seeing this, too.

It also picked up some more ADS channels at 119.x (CSPAN, Golf, CNN, ...)There's evidently a lot of...um...adjusting going on. Although I still find that the TSReader analysis of rf117, for example, looks correct and my old channel list still works just fine, when I do a new autoscan for QAM channels with MyHD today I get total garbage--no subchannels on any DTV rf channel!

Hi All,

Just wanted to let everyone know - A guy from Comcast came today with a Cablecard, and it installed fine on my Toshiba 42HP95. Now, I'm able to get all the local broadcast stations in HD. The channels are now mapped to Comcast's numbering (i.e. Fox is 702, NBC is 703, ABC is 707).

Also, SD digital channels that I used to be able to tune to, are now not viewable (presumably, the CC is doing this since I'm only subscribed to an analog cable package right now).

Anyone know where ABC is on Comcast 95116, using my toshiba built in tuner ,and 7.1 and 9.1 are gone., tried 88.5, 88.6 was working on Sunday, now they have changed again... any thoughts....? Thanks.

KQED-HD and KGO-HD are on 117.2 and 117.1 in many places around SF.

Anyone know where ABC is on Comcast 95116, using my toshiba built in tuner ,and 7.1 and 9.1 are gone., tried 88.5, 88.6 was working on Sunday, now they have changed again... any thoughts....? Thanks.

For me at 95134: ABC is at 88.1 and KQED at 88.2

Some excerpts from Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection Blog regarding TiVo,

Richard Baldry from First Albany Corp. asked Rogers about the timing on the rollout for TiVo's new dual tuner HDTV Series 3 box and Rogers said that the box will not be out until after mid year but said that the box would be available for the "heaviest part of the selling season later this year."

Rogers also talked about their upcoming partnership with Comcast and said that it was still on track for roll out later this year. "We are excited by the idea of the generic DVRs the cable companies are rolling out," said Rogers. Rogers cited their relationship with Comcast as an example of where TiVo service could still thrive even on non TiVo DVRs. Rogers added that TiVo was also in "solid discussion with other cable operators."

Blog link below,

http://thomashawk.com/
Thomas Hawk's Digital Connection

Full text on the investor conference from which the above came from,

http://cestockblog.com/article/7545
The Consumer Electronics Stock Blog » TiVo F4Q06 (Qtr Ending January 31, 2006) Earnings Conference Call Transcript (TIVO)

Well, what is up with the message about FSN+ going to channel 410? Is this a generic message or will this apply to the 550mhz areas? I'm hoping (dreaming) that this will free up channel 11 (TV guide channel) for HD FSN.

oh wow you 550ers don't have FSN HD? and you pay the same as we do? gipped! comcast has some nerve.

oh wow you 550ers don't have FSN HD? and you pay the same as we do? gipped! comcast has some nerve.
Yes, they do, but they're getting away with it...

RE: Santa Rosa, it seems that a major problem up here is that Comcast is attempting to re-negotiate, or back-pedal, on what was actually contained in the franchise agreement that was purchased from Cable One. Cable One had apparently negotiated some things that the City wanted just before the purchase by Comcast and now Comcast is balking, or using it has an excuse to stall the progress here.

I guess Comcast should have checked the fruit a little closer before buying.

I was holding out hope that comcast would offer some MLB extra innings games in HD like Dish and Directv, but apparently not. If it wasn't for INHD and FSNHD I'd have already moved over to Satellite, but this just inches me closer to the line.

From Comcast:

Dear Brian,

Thank you for contacting Comcast.

At this time none of our MLB extra inning games are scheduled to be broadcasted
in HD.

Thank you for choosing Comcast.

Sincerely,

Eric
Comcast Customer Support

Just a couple of questions...I did try to search through 315 pages of info, so forgive me if this has been covered:

Is Santa Rosa still a 550mhz system?

If not, when can we expect digital simulcast?

Thanks!

Todd

and wow you only had to look up 2 posts above to answer ur question... keenan will tell you all you need to know about santa rosa.

Just a couple of questions...I did try to search through 315 pages of info, so forgive me if this has been covered:

Is Santa Rosa still a 550mhz system?
Yes. The technical people at Comcast consider 550Mhz a modern system with no need to increase bandwidth. Probably true once all the analog is gone.

If not, when can we expect digital simulcast?

Thanks!

Todd
Only the gods of Comcast know the answer to that question, but, Santa Rosa is habitually among the very last in the bay area region to have any upgrades or improvements. In the past 2-3 years the only improvements I've seen are a handful of channels have been converted to 256QAM from 64QAM and the addition of HSI. There have been no HD channel additions since HD came on line here about 2 years ago. Of course we pay the same as folks in Larkfield, Rhonert Park and Sebastopol who have everything Comcast has to offer.

The situation in Santa Rosa is complicated. When Comcast purchased the system from Cable One, Cable One had agreed to some concessions to The City, among those was 8Mhz of bandwidth for city use. Comcast says they need that bandwidth, while at the same time they have provided equipment to provide The City with the services that were originally qualified in the original agreement, apparently using less bandwidth. The problem is the equipment has not worked properly and The City is of the position that, "we gave you the bandwidth you wanted, now make it work", so far, it hasn't worked. It's essentially been a pissing contest between The City and Comcast going on 3 years now, apparently with no resolution in sight.

The City has stated that Comcast has free rein to upgrade the capacity of the system to higher bandwidth anytime they want, there are no roadblocks to that happening on The City end of things. The speculation is that Comcast does not want to upgrade, rather they are stalling until technology(full digital carriage, etc.) is in place to utilize the bandwidth they we have to it's fullest. There is also speculation that Comcast is waiting/stalling until new legislation that allows the cable company to not have to negotiate with local entities anymore is passed. This is not as far-fetched as it seems, some states have already created such legislation and telcos entering the pay-TV market already have that ability.

Comcast cable in Santa Rosa currently still has more analog stations than digital ones(excluding the music channels) and I believe it has the lowest total channel count in the SF bay area.

As a side note, members of city government have had high speed cable internet for years before it was available to the public, apparently this was something that Cable One had provided in the franchise agreement.

Basically, The City wants what was provided for in the original Cable One franchise agreement, and I far as I can tell, Comcast has been trying change or renegotiate that agreement.

Remember, The City has stated emphatically that there is no restriction on Comcast to upgrade the system, the ball is essentially in Comcast's court. Personally, from what info I have gathered, I wouldn't expect any major changes in Santa Rosa in the near future. The below is excerpted from a communication I had with the City Manager's office.

Again, let me reiterate my previous communications with you. There is nothing in the City’s franchise that prevents Comcast from upgrading the system now. In fact, Comcast has said over and over that it intends to upgrade the system anyway. It has been well over thirty-six months and we are not seeing any progress. The responsibility is on Comcast to make good on their promises—whether it is to finalize the tentative agreement we have reached, fix the Sub I-Net test or complete the system upgrade.

If you have issues with Comcast in Santa Rosa contact the City Manager's office and the Vice-Mayor's office as they seem to be the ones attuned to what is going on.

City Manager Office,

MRichardson@ci.santa-rosa.ca.us

Vice Mayor,

BBlanchard@ci.santa-rosa.ca.us

keenan,

Thank you so much for such a detailed answer! I guess as Santa Rosa residents there isn't much we can do at this point.

Thanks again,
Todd

Well, there is a couple things you can do.

Dump Comcast, or at least strip your programming down, and/or go with one of the satcos, DirecTV already has the 4 major locals and Dish will have them very soon.

Contact the City government and let them know you are not happy with the Comcast situation.

Contact the local media about Comcast. Comcast is particularly sensitive about negative media.

I've already done the first two and will be doing the third after some further discussions with the City Manager and Vice-Mayor. One of the things I'm going to suggest is they invite ATT/SBC to deploy IPTV here in Santa Rosa as an alternative to Comcast for terrestrial pay-TV. It wouldn't surprise me if they have done so already. The tone within City Govt is that they are not happy with the Comcast situation at all.

Does anyone know if we'll be getting UHD back? Or if we will be getting TNT-HD, or any new HD channels at all? I had a lot of fun having UHD for the short time we had it during the Olympics and since it's the only source of Battlestar Galactica in HD I'm sorely dissapointed we are no longer recieving this channel. I haven't even heard a reasonable explanation of why UHD was taken off the channel lineup. :confused:

While I don't have an answer, I agree completely. I was on the verge of switching to DirecTV *just* to get UHD, *just* to see last season's BSG episodes in HD. Then UHD popped up on Comcast, and problem solved. Now Comcast stupidly removes UHD, and I'm back on the fence. This is really shoddy treatment by Comcast.

But then, even with UHD back, it's still older episodes we've already seen. What we really need is Sci-Fi to broadcast in HD. Or transfer BSG to NBC. Or simulcast on UHD. Hey, I think I'll change my signature . . .

Comcast's web page quotes me $78.20 for digital silver. Is this really the minimum package to get 1 premium movie channel, or does their "Certain services are available separately" claim mean I can order a premium movie channel without digital silver?
This price is a lot higher than what I've seen mentioned by anyone else for this package. Is that because the price now bundles in set top box rental costs? I was hoping to soon get a cablecard system and so I do not want to rent a set top box.

Sounds about right. In my area Digital Silver is $76.69.

I just read that per the 1992 cable act, I should be able to get, for example, HBO ala carte. Anyone have pricing info for this in the north bay? I would think standard cable plus HBO would be a better value.

Well, what is up with the message about FSN+ going to channel 410? Is this a generic message or will this apply to the 550mhz areas? I'm hoping (dreaming) that this will free up channel 11 (TV guide channel) for HD FSN.

I got that msg. on the Okld. system. Don't know what it means. I assume that HD will still be in the 700 range - one of the INHD slots.

...mike

I don't think you can get any of the digital channels without getting at least Digital Classic. I think I tried that when I reduced my programming with Comcast and I was told I needed Digital Classic(Digital Starter which includes the required Standard Cable) at a minimum to get anything else.

My current bill runs about $75 a month for just Digital Classic(Basic+Expanded+Digital Starter) plus the DVR.

Evidently there is not enough competition here but in Boston MA you can get just Limited Basic and add Digital Classic, which has all the non premium digital HD channels, plus the DVR for around $30 a month. We have to have add in Expanded Basic, and Digital Classic just to get the DVR which boosts the bill to around $75 a month, and that's before any premium channels are added. Comcast is ridiculously expensive in the bay area.

Well, what is up with the message about FSN+ going to channel 410? Is this a generic message or will this apply to the 550mhz areas? I'm hoping (dreaming) that this will free up channel 11 (TV guide channel) for HD FSN.
We don't have a ch 410 in Santa Rosa's 550 system, in fact we only have 6 channels in the 400's. :rolleyes:

Comcast's web page quotes me $78.20 for digital silver. Is this really the minimum package to get 1 premium movie channel, or does their "Certain services are available separately" claim mean I can order a premium movie channel without digital silver?
This price is a lot higher than what I've seen mentioned by anyone else for this package. Is that because the price now bundles in set top box rental costs? I was hoping to soon get a cablecard system and so I do not want to rent a set top box.

non-DVR HD settop box should be only $5. If you are mainly interested in premium channel, you should be able to get 'basic + HD Recv $5 + premiun (HD and non HD) channel'.. may be around $35.

Well, what is up with the message about FSN+ going to channel 410? Is this a generic message or will this apply to the 550mhz areas? I'm hoping (dreaming) that this will free up channel 11 (TV guide channel) for HD FSN.

FSN+, the channel that FSN uses when there is a scheduling conflict and multiple games/shows are being broadcast at the same time, has always been put on a number of different channels depending on what area you're in. SFGate.com has the potential channels here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/04/14/SPGQF64JUM1.DTL

This is probably Comcast just aligning all of the regions/head-ends in the Bay Area so it's on the same channel (i'm always having a hard time finding the A's game when early Giants games go longer then expected). It is interesting that they're moving it from analog to digital -- they'll probably keep it in the analog spectrum for the 550ers, hence not really freeing up bandwidth.

FSN+, the channel that FSN uses when there is a scheduling conflict and multiple games/shows are being broadcast at the same time, has always been put on a number of different channels depending on what area you're in. SFGate.com has the potential channels here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2004/04/14/SPGQF64JUM1.DTL

This is probably Comcast just aligning all of the regions/head-ends in the Bay Area so it's on the same channel (i'm always having a hard time finding the A's game when early Giants games go longer then expected). It is interesting that they're moving it from analog to digital -- they'll probably keep it in the analog spectrum for the 550ers, hence not really freeing up bandwidth.
Actually, I got the same message about the shift to channel 410, FSN+ is now on channel 11 here in the SaraMilgatos loop so it will free up some bandwidth even for us poor 550 MHz areas ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

I just read that per the 1992 cable act, I should be able to get, for example, HBO ala carte. Anyone have pricing info for this in the north bay? I would think standard cable plus HBO would be a better value.
Here in Novato, the price list that came with my bill in Jan 06 shows Standard Cable $48.25 and HBO $16.99. My neighbor has only these two packages plus a DVR and they get all HD channels excluding of course Cinemax, Showtime and Starz, but including InHD, InHD2, DiscHD, ESPNHD, KRONHD and local networks. Note, no digital package other than HBO.

I have Limited Basic + Digital Classic tier + DCT-6200 and get all HD channels except premiums. I formerly had Limited Basic + Digital Silver tier and also got all HD channels with one premium. Note, the Digital Classic tier was not needed only Digital Silver tier which seems to mean that any digital tier, package or premium will allow all HD channels to be viewed. YMMV.

Actually, I got the same message about the shift to channel 410, FSN+ is now on channel 11 here in the SaraMilgatos loop so it will free up some bandwidth even for us poor 550 MHz areas ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

That's cool. So the question is will they completely get rid of channel 11 (or whatever other channel was being used for FSN+) to make make room for additional HD channels. Makes sense to me...

Here in Novato, the price list that came with my bill in Jan 06 shows Standard Cable $48.25 and HBO $16.99....

If that offer of a non-bundled HBO is still available, the Comcast website doesn't show it. At least I couldn't find it.

If that offer of a non-bundled HBO is still available, the Comcast website doesn't show it. At least I couldn't find it.Website is not complete. If you still have your bill from Jan 06, take a look for the price sheet that has channel list/package-tier breakdown on reverse side. Those are not offers but regular prices. I assume everyone should have got this to show new prices. Or give them a call and ask.

That's cool. So the question is will they completely get rid of channel 11 (or whatever other channel was being used for FSN+) to make make room for additional HD channels. Makes sense to me...
What I think they are going to do with the extra bandwidth is to give them room for the digital simulcasting and the switch over to all digital, at least for the 550 MHz systems. Just my guess but that would make sense to me.

Laters,
Mikef5

Here in Novato, the price list that came with my bill in Jan 06 shows Standard Cable $48.25 and HBO $16.99. My neighbor has only these two packages plus a DVR and they get all HD channels excluding of course Cinemax, Showtime and Starz, but including InHD, InHD2, DiscHD, ESPNHD, KRONHD and local networks. Note, no digital package other than HBO.Thanks, that sounds a lot like what I'll probably want. I wonder if I need to know a secret phrase to mention to the CSR in order to get this packaging that isn't offered on their web site. Perhaps mentioning "tier-buy-thru" and "no FCC exception":)?

Here in Novato, the price list that came with my bill in Jan 06 shows Standard Cable $48.25 and HBO $16.99. My neighbor has only these two packages plus a DVR and they get all HD channels excluding of course Cinemax, Showtime and Starz, but including InHD, InHD2, DiscHD, ESPNHD, KRONHD and local networks. Note, no digital package other than HBO.

YMMV.
How is that possible? INHD, INHD2, DiscHD and ESPN-HD all require the first digital tier...they must not be encrypted in your area....in fact to get the DVR they told me I had to have the lowest priced digital package...your neighbor is very lucky if he has a DVR with just Standard Cable. Wish the hell I could do that...I'll bet they don't realize he has a DVR.

ayewbf, where are you located in the north bay?

Actually, I got the same message about the shift to channel 410, FSN+ is now on channel 11 here in the SaraMilgatos loop so it will free up some bandwidth even for us poor 550 MHz areas ;)

Laters,
Mikef5
Not in my 550 area, no message and no change.. :rolleyes: :D

If that offer of a non-bundled HBO is still available, the Comcast website doesn't show it. At least I couldn't find it.
It's on the rate sheets they have to send out every year, the below is dated Jan 2005 but the prices are the same.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/CablePackages.jpg

How is that possible? INHD, INHD2, DiscHD and ESPN-HD all require the first digital tier...they must not be encrypted in your area....in fact to get the DVR they told me I had to have the lowest priced digital package...your neighbor is very lucky if he has a DVR with just Standard Cable. Wish the hell I could do that...I'll bet they don't realize he has a DVR.
They are encrypted in Novato. I removed Digital Clasic tier from my account and could not get those channels on DCT-6200. Also the QAM tuner in my TV cannot view them.

Standard Cable is the same as Limited Basic + Expanded Basic therefore DVR is OK. I can't get DVR with Limited Basic plus Digital Classic only.

Isn't HBO is digital tier? I think so, therefore it qualifies my neighbor to view all of the HD channels because any digital tier or package is qualifying.

They are encrypted in Novato. I removed Digital Clasic tier from my account and could not get those channels on DCT-6200. Also the QAM tuner in my TV cannot view them.

Standard Cable is the same as Limited Basic + Expanded Basic therefore DVR is OK. I can't get DVR with Limited Basic plus Digital Classic only.

Isn't HBO is digital tier? I think so, therefore it qualifies my neighbor to view all of the HD channels because any digital tier or package is qualifying.
Do you have a DVR? How did you remove Digital Classic from your account, did you call them or can it be done on the web? I would be happy with Standard Cable and the DVR but was told I couldn't do that. Actually, all I want is Basic with the DVR, but we know that's not going to happen...

Yes HBO is digital, so he should get all the multiplexed HBO channels as well.

Keenan, where did you get that Products and Services Price List? Can you get it online?

The biggest thing that irks me is they've set up and priced the packages in a way that it's literally impossible to try and save money...even when we, the customer, try to make concessions. For example, I have the Digital Silver + Standard and chose HBO as my premium -- I pay $79 for this. There is no way for me to have HBO and any digital-based package for less then $76 because they charge $17 for premium a-la-cartes. They know that I'm going to say it's not worth going down to Digital Classic + HBO just to save $3. I really hope Congress follows through and puts the pressure on FCC to force cable operators to have more resonable a-la-carte selections.

The other interesting thing about the Price List is that they charge $470 for an unreturned 6412. I wonder if this is the price they pay Moto for each box.

I really hope Congress follows through and puts the pressure on FCC to force cable operators to have more resonable a-la-carte selections.
I wouldn't get your hopes up. Cable MSOs are very adept at converting any attempts to reduce cable fees through unbundling to effective *increases* in your fees paid. They have 20yrs experience with this. See how effective CableCARD has been avoided. Consumer electronics companies are starting to punt on CableCARD and building clearQAM only TVs due to frustration with CableCARD.

That's cool. So the question is will they completely get rid of channel 11 (or whatever other channel was being used for FSN+) to make make room for additional HD channels. Makes sense to me...
I'm hoping they'll put FSN-HD on channel 11. I'm sure they aren't getting rid of the TV Guide channel on 11.

ayewbf, where are you located in the north bay?Kentfield

Keenan, where did you get that Products and Services Price List? Can you get it online?
It comes with the bill every year, I think usually around the very end or first of the year, it's an FCC mandate that they provide those lists. They should have them at the local office. I could send you a copy of mine but it will be different due to you being in a different area.


The biggest thing that irks me is they've set up and priced the packages in a way that it's literally impossible to try and save money...even when we, the customer, try to make concessions. For example, I have the Digital Silver + Standard and chose HBO as my premium -- I pay $79 for this. There is no way for me to have HBO and any digital-based package for less then $76 because they charge $17 for premium a-la-cartes. They know that I'm going to say it's not worth going down to Digital Classic + HBO just to save $3. I really hope Congress follows through and puts the pressure on FCC to force cable operators to have more resonable a-la-carte selections.
I agree with the way they structure the packages, it's literally impossible to really get a break on pricing. I pay $75 total bill and don't even have any premium channels(they are much cheaper on sat-I pay $23 for both HBO and SHO).

That $75 includes Standard+Digital Clasic+DVR+local fees and taxes. Does that $79 that you pay include everything?

The other interesting thing about the Price List is that they charge $470 for an unreturned 6412. I wonder if this is the price they pay Moto for each box.
No, the last time I saw wholesale prices on the DVR it was in $300 range.

I wouldn't get your hopes up. Cable MSOs are very adept at converting any attempts to reduce cable fees through unbundling to effective *increases* in your fees paid. They have 20yrs experience with this. See how effective CableCARD has been avoided. Consumer electronics companies are starting to punt on CableCARD and building clearQAM only TVs due to frustration with CableCARD.
To be fair, it's a combination of the cablecos and the content providers that have created the situation we have now along with the re-trans and must carry legislation. Dish Prez Charlie Ergen has always tried to get just the channels he wants and it's reflected in the relatively lower cost of Dish programming.

For instance, if you want ESPN you have to carry all their channels, you want SHO, you have to carry all of the Viacom cable nets. With CBS being split off from Viacom expect to see CBS asking for cash for it's programming. Which of course will eventually be paid by the subscriber.

The must-carry and re-trans legislation needs to be re-written to reflect the realities of today, not what it was when the legislation was created.

Kentfield
Be sure to let us know how you fare with Comcast. :)

Do you have a DVR? How did you remove Digital Classic from your account, did you call them or can it be done on the web? I would be happy with Standard Cable and the DVR but was told I couldn't do that. Actually, all I want is Basic with the DVR, but we know that's not going to happen...

Yes HBO is digital, so he should get all the multiplexed HBO channels as well.
No DVR. When the 6412 first became available last year, I called and they told me that I could have the 6412 with just Limited Basic. So they came out and installed it and on the next bill I noticed that the computer automatically charged me for Standard Cable even though I didn't receive Expanded channels. So after a hassle with them they told me they made a mistake and 6412 needs a minimum of Standard Cable. I took the 6412 back and got a 6200 with Limited Basic and Digital Classic tier. I wish they would allow 6412 with Limited Basic.

That $75 includes Standard+Digital Clasic+DVR+local fees and taxes. Does that $79 that you pay include everything?

Oh god no. I don't have a bill in front of me but if I include HSI, 2 DVR's, and the 2 or 3 movies my wife likes to rent each month, my bill easily pushes $170. You can see why $3 doesn't really make me jump for joy. I'm usually a firm believer in artist/content rights but I'm seriously close to moving ********** for most of my viewing. Now that I have my HTPC all working, I'm pretty sure I'm going to drop at least one of my DVR's and I may go out and build a second PC to connect to our other TV. If I go that route, I may drop all the way down to Basic as a test and see if I can survive. :)

I wouldn't get your hopes up. Cable MSOs are very adept at converting any attempts to reduce cable fees through unbundling to effective *increases* in your fees paid. They have 20yrs experience with this. See how effective CableCARD has been avoided. Consumer electronics companies are starting to punt on CableCARD and building clearQAM only TVs due to frustration with CableCARD.

See, this is something I just don't understand. I would think a CableCARD is much cheaper from the CableCo's perspective then an STB (DVR or not). The fewer the number of STB's an MSO has to dish out the less money it is for them to deliver content to their customers. They're not making money off the rental fee are they? Maybe they are.

CableCARD doesn't allow for one button press purchases of PPV, VOD, etc. It also doesn't allow for custom tailed ad placement through interactive menus.

What I object to is the monthly cost of $6.95 just for using a CableCARD, especially if it's being used on the same display as the DVR is hooked up to. I can understand maybe if it was for a display other than the one that's hooked to the DVR, but the same one?? It's freaking ridiculous, I sent my CC back months ago. Let me buy the card, let me put down a deposit for it, anything but gouging me every month for $7...the damn things only cost about $50-70...

CableCARD doesn't allow for one button press purchases of PPV, VOD, etc. It also doesn't allow for custom tailed ad placement through interactive menus.

I forgot about PPV and ad placement. We don't pay extra for VOD so they wouldn't be losing money there (unless of course they plan on charging for that in the future). I may be dreaming about the FCC intervening with the MSO pricing structure...however I'm at least counting on the OpenCable standard to allow me to choose my STB/DVR and not have to worry about incompatibilities, IR blasters, etc.

They are definitely planning on charging for VOD in the future, no question about it, in fact they are charging for some of it now I believe. VOD is one of CEO Roberts pet projects.

I'll chime in regarding how San Jose works right now. If one wants (for example) HBO, HD, and DVR -- and the absolute minimum (as in nothing else) beyond that, you get stuck with a package that works about to being $80+ a month.

I AM PISSED!

At approx 8pm, while doing a 30sec skip, the image froze, the box shut down, re-started, AND ERASED ALL DVR RECORDINGS AND SCHEDULED EVENTS!!! WTGDCSMFS??? Plus, the guide info is gone just like after a cold re-boot.

My wife lost her American Idol eps from last week. (No big deal for me, but she's devastated.) We lost last week's House. Last night's Wakaba (Japanese drama series), and the first bunch of episodes of the new Japanese historical drama which we hadn't watched yet! Now, we will be lost when we start watching live. Also, two or three NHK documentaries. That stuff doesn't repeat. It's gone for good! (except for House, of course.)

Has anything like this ever happened to anyone here? I'd almost expect it with a Dish Network DVR. But, I haven't heard of it happening with a 6412. (FYI, it's a phase II 6412 in the San Jose system.)

Also, I'm wondering if the data might still be on the hdd, just not recognized by the OS, for some reason. If so, could there be a way to retrieve it using a PC?

Be sure to let us know how you fare with Comcast. :)Thanks, will do. Actually I'm surprised to see how competitive comcast makes my current directv prices look, even after the current, for me, 10% increase from directv. Thought it might have made sense to dump directv, especially given directv's sad state of affairs concerning HD locals (need new dish, more wires, new pvr that's not up to standard). But now I'll probably continue holding my breath for the cablecard tivo first (and keep dealing with flaky OTA locals from sacramento in the mean time).

To be fair, it's a combination of the cablecos and the content providers that have created the situation we have now along with the re-trans and must carry legislation. Dish Prez Charlie Ergen has always tried to get just the channels he wants and it's reflected in the relatively lower cost of Dish programming.
The channels lineups that are forced upon consumers I agree with what you said, but the net price charged to the consumer includes both programming costs and Comcast profit margin. Comcast has to make profit, they are a business after all, no problem with that, but somehow everytime they have talk of a-la-carte I end up paying even more than I was prior to a-la-carte. The last time they talked of this type of thing, they forced the cable companies to itemize all the charges so people could see what they were paying for and decide what they wanted. Before we just got one huge cable bill, then they had to break down limited basic, expanded basic, digital classic, cable boxes, etc. I swear at no point did my cable bill get reduced in price even though the claims were $3-$5 savings per subscriber for the previous legislation. The sum of the parts was somehow worked out to be greater than the whole.

What I object to is the monthly cost of $6.95 just for using a CableCARD, especially if it's being used on the same display as the DVR is hooked up to. I can understand maybe if it was for a display other than the one that's hooked to the DVR, but the same one?? It's freaking ridiculous, I sent my CC back months ago. Let me buy the card, let me put down a deposit for it, anything but gouging me every month for $7...the damn things only cost about $50-70...
If you look at the equipment charges page that Comcast gives you I think the charge for not returning a CableCARD is 80 something, maybe $82.

I guess you could just not return a cable card, pay your $82, but then you still have to convince them to activate your card in their system.

It doesn't seem right that you get charged $6.95 for a CableCARD they value at $82 and you also get charged $6.95 for an STB they value at $500.

If you plan to use a CableCARD for more than a year, then it makes more sense financially to not return your CableCARD and get charged the fee, assuming you can later get it activated.

I AM PISSED!

At approx 8pm, while doing a 30sec skip, the image froze, the box shut down, re-started, AND ERASED ALL DVR RECORDINGS AND SCHEDULED EVENTS!!! WTGDCSMFS??? Plus, the guide info is gone just like after a cold re-boot.

My wife lost her American Idol eps from last week. (No big deal for me, but she's devastated.) We lost last week's House. Last night's Wakaba (Japanese drama series), and the first bunch of episodes of the new Japanese historical drama which we hadn't watched yet! Now, we will be lost when we start watching live. Also, two or three NHK documentaries. That stuff doesn't repeat. It's gone for good! (except for House, of course.)

Has anything like this ever happened to anyone here? I'd almost expect it with a Dish Network DVR. But, I haven't heard of it happening with a 6412. (FYI, it's a phase II 6412 in the San Jose system.)

Gary, try this: Unplug the 6412 for about 1/2 hour. Plug it back in and let it load up. I haven't heard of your particular issue before but I've seen other similar issues that were fixed this way. All of the recordings just reappeared.

Does anyone know what Comcasts Long term plans are for CATV. Are they going to continue to send out analoge signals in 5 years, or are they going to force all of its customers to get new TV's ???

Does anyone know what Comcasts Long term plans are for CATV. Are they going to continue to send out analoge signals in 5 years, or are they going to force all of its customers to get new TV's ???

they will force you to rent a small box for prolly no fee at all (other than your standard sub) you may keep ur old black and white set

the talk of ADS is the first step to this conversion

An update on the FSN Plus move from Mr. Johnson.

____________________________________________________________ ___________

Saw some chat in the Forum over the weekend about Fox Sports Net Plus. Thought I would clear up any questions. You can share this with the group.

Overview: FSN Plus games (featuring Warriors, Sharks, A’s and Giants) on various channel locations throughout Northern California on Limited Basic will be available on Digital Classic (D1) on channel 410 beginning on March 22, 2006.

In order to ease the transition, the games will continue to be available on Limited Basic until May 2, 2006. After May 2nd, the games will only be available on channel 410.

Current customers who subscribe to the Limited Basic level of video service will no longer find FSN Plus games on Limited Basic after May 2, 2006. Current customers who subscribe to the Digital Classic level of video service will find FSN plus games on channel 410 beginning on March 23rd.

Why is this happening:

We have temporarily inserted FSN Plus games on numerous channels on our Limited Basic level of service as a means to provide access to more sports to our sports fans in Northern California. Insertion on various channel locations was a temporary solution which enabled Comcast to provide the games.

The lack of a common channel did not allow us to provide program listings on our scrolling and interactive guide. Customers were relying on listings in the newspapers to find information about their favorite teams’ games It has also been difficult for our Customer Account Executives responding to customer inquiries to know where to point these customers.

By moving these games to a common location, we can point customers to channel 410 and keep the scrolling and interactive guides updated with schedule information for the games.
____________________________________________________________ ________

Like I've said before, Mr. J. does read this forum, so if you have questions this is one place that will eventually catch his attention. He uses people like me and other people in this forum to help disseminate information about Comcast and what is happening with the cable system when he can. Not many companys do that or have executives that take that initiative to do so. That being said, if there is a problem let them know, the problem has to be known before anything can be done to fix it.

Laters,
Mikef5

Gary, try this: Unplug the 6412 for about 1/2 hour. Plug it back in and let it load up. I haven't heard of your particular issue before but I've seen other similar issues that were fixed this way. All of the recordings just reappeared.Thanks Bobby. I did try unplugging/replugging. But, it didn't work. However, it was only for a minute. AND, it was after I had already created another DVR event. I wonder if by creating a new event, I wiped out the old DVR table?

clever, subtle move to get more subs on digital. now do something decisive and put food network, tnt, cartoon network and sci-fi on digital only, clear up some bandwidth so i can have my espn2hd (and tons of pissed off subs because of snobs like me)

they will force you to rent a small box for prolly no fee at all (other than your standard sub) you may keep ur old black and white set

the talk of ADS is the first step to this conversion

Is there any talk of when this will happen?
I would think that once comcast stoped transmitting analoge they would loose a lot of there customers to other forms of TV reception ( Dish, Internet, AT&T ect..)

Is there any talk of when this will happen?
I would think that once comcast stoped transmitting analoge they would loose a lot of there customers to other forms of TV reception ( Dish, Internet, AT&T ect..)

i hope you aren't complaining about competition... one day you'll have to replace that dinosaur tv w/o a box but i think the rollout of ADS is limited right now and will take as long as it'll take.

Is there any talk of when this will happen?
I would think that once comcast stoped transmitting analoge they would loose a lot of there customers to other forms of TV reception ( Dish, Internet, AT&T ect..)

I'm not sure about FiOS but with the exception of OTA, cable MSO's are the only ones still offering analog-based TV. DirecTV, Dish, pretty much all satellite companies transmit in all digital and require an STB/converter of some sort anyway. I would expect FiOS and Internet to be the same way (don't know how you could transmit analog signals over IP). So unless a customer is planning on getting their signal OTA (in which they would only get local broadcast stations), there really isn't any way around the "no STB/converter" thing.

^^ I know that, but if I have to have a box ( or cablecard) then I might as well look into other alternatives.

As long as my TV, TV, TV, Tivo, VCR, Computer TV Card can get an analog feed I won't look any farther than Comcast.

i hope you aren't complaining about competition... one day you'll have to replace that dinosaur tv w/o a box but i think the rollout of ADS is limited right now and will take as long as it'll take.
I think he's just saying lots of people stick with Comcast because of the convenience of not using a cable box with their TV, VCRs, PVRs, PCs, etc.

Even folks who have cable boxes on some TVs commonly have other TVs, VCRs, PVRs, PCs, etc. which don't use a cable box.

Once that is gone, for many (but obviously not all) people, a big reason for staying with Comcast will have been removed and since they must use STB either way, they will be open to moving to other distribution schemes (which also require a STB)

I think he's just saying lots of people stick with Comcast because of the convenience of not using a cable box with their TV, VCRs, PVRs, PCs, etc.

Even folks who have cable boxes on some TVs commonly have other TVs, VCRs, PVRs, PCs, etc. which don't use a cable box.

Once that is gone, for many (but obviously not all) people, a big reason for staying with Comcast will have been removed and since they must use STB either way, they will be open to moving to other distribution schemes (which also require a STB)

That's all true...I just never thought it was that big a deal to have another "component" in my stack. I'm guessing when everything goes digital, you won't need a converter for every component -- i.e. you can go out from the wall into a converter and then daisy chain your analog components (i.e. VCR, TV, PVR, etc.). I could be wrong though which would suck. However you still wouldn't be in any better shape with satellite.

You will need a converter for every component if you want to watch one thing and record another. I am sure when the day comes I will just get a converter box for 2 of my TV's and a DVR for the other ( HD DVR w/ dual tuners). I don't actually use my VCR anymore for recording, and the Card in the computer will be thrown away.
I don't look forward to the comcast bill once I have to start renting all of the boxs. And I hope they don't charge a digital premium, like they do today.

i hope you aren't complaining about competition... one day you'll have to replace that dinosaur tv w/o a box but i think the rollout of ADS is limited right now and will take as long as it'll take.

How long? ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)