Is it Comcast capping those channels or the feeds from HBO and Showtime?

Interesting that Comcast would have around the same bitrates on those channels as HD Lite on D* (don't know about E*).

They want you to pay premium subscriptions for premium channels and they give you sub-premium PQ.

Don't know how the above were determined, but the below for Dish are short 30 secs to one minute samples. From a post at SatelliteGuys.

HBO-14.60/Mbps
SHO-15.30/Mpbs
Starz-15.37/Mbps

The above are sampled from the 110 sat location, for HBO and SHO the 148 location are higher quality/bitrate.

For kicks, HDNet movies- 17.80/Mbps

The below are for DirecTV from Widemovies.com.

HBO-9.10/Mbps
SHO-8.00/Mbps
No StarzHD on DirecTV.

While these numbers may look interesting, it's hard to compare without using the same test techniques, plus, movie channels don't require as much throughput due to the nature of film as compared to video.

keenan, I'm glad that somebody pointed out that bitrate comparisons need apples-to-apples conditions to be at all meanigful--and that the underlying bitrates of 24-fps movies (if done correctly) really are lower than 60-fps video at the same resolution. Any HD movie TS that's more than 12 Mbps or so has lots of redundant bits.

There are plenty of ways to mess up an HDTV transmission. Inappropriate bitrate limiting is just one, so a high or low TS bitrate by itself is no proof of image quality. Ron's (dr1394) diagnostics that showed problems with the new encoder at KNTV, for example, went far beyond measuring bitrate.

Don't know how the above were determined
Most were determined by recording the full program but a few were terminated early (at least 1/2 hour of recording).

The calculations were done to determine the mb/s.

1>The program was recorded.
2>The bytes remaining were then taken from the diagnostic menu, the program was deleted, and then the bytes remaining was again taken from the diagnostic menu.
3> The difference in bytes was divided by the number of minutes in the program.
4> That was divided by 60 (number of seconds per minute).
4> That was multiplied by 8 (number of bits per byte) to get the mb/s.

keenan, I'm glad that somebody pointed out that bitrate comparisons need apples-to-apples conditions to be at all meanigful--and that the underlying bitrates of 24-fps movies (if done correctly) really are lower than 60-fps video at the same resolution. Any HD movie TS that's more than 12 Mbps or so has lots of redundant bits.
Mb/s is mb/s whether 24 fps or 60 fps. Whether 24 fps or 60 fps, a good encoder should attempt to move to the maximum allowed bit rate on the channel. However, quality could be different with the same bit rate at 24 fps and 60 fps. Some drama series and documentaries are shot at 24 fps so it would be very difficult to determine which are shot at 24 fps or 60 fps. Only North American live shows are quaranteed to be shot at 60 fps.

The most important thing is that a long sample is taken, similar type shows are recorded, and the same channel is compared against the same channel.

Bit rates in many cases don't make a big difference in quality but in some cases (especially sports), the differences are noticable.

mterzich--

Fortunately for your calculations, it seems that your recorder strips out null packets. :)

My earlier point was that there are a fixed number of pixels per frame for a given picture resolution. Therefore, achieving identical accuracy with respect to the original picture frames in bitstreams for 24 fps versus 60 fps requires bitrates that differ by over a factor of 2 (i.e. 60:24). IOW, movies naturally take less Mbps than video sources. Of course, you can pack more bits into the digitized 24-fps stream to render it at a higher frame rate (e.g., by duplicating whole frames) and broadcasters still often do, but there are more efficient strategies that don't require as much bandwidth and also sacrifice no PQ.

mterzich--

Fortunately for your calculations, it seems that your recorder strips out null packets. :)

My earlier point was that there are a fixed number of pixels per frame for a given picture resolution. Therefore, achieving identical accuracy with respect to the original picture frames in bitstreams for 24 fps versus 60 fps requires bitrates that differ by over a factor of 2 (i.e. 60:24). IOW, movies naturally take less Mbps than video sources. Of course, you can pack more bits into the digitized 24-fps stream to render it at a higher frame rate (e.g., by duplicating whole frames) and broadcasters still often do, but there are more efficient strategies that don't require as much bandwidth and also sacrifice no PQ.
Under what condition will there be a null packet? I would think that the minimum would be duplicate frame packet. Even if there are null packets, I would think that it should make very little difference in the mb/s.

On a 1080i channel, 24 fps is not over a factor of 2 since it is really 30:24. Bit rates go up not by duplicating packets but by the efficiency of the encoder. During motion prediction/compensation and reduncy sampling, encoders can discard information that could appear have a minimal effect. With a higher bit rate, a good encoder may not discard that information.

If the bit rates did not sacrifice PQ, then there wouldn't be the big debate going on about whether HD DVD is better or worse than Blue Ray.

Now, if you have a better way of checking bit rates without investing $$$$, I'd be interested to here. I suspect that the technique that I used should be within reasonable accuracy.

Under what condition will there be a null packet? I would think....You don't need to guess. All DTV TS have null packets to make them constant bitrate. You can check out the ATSC tutorials, etc., on this website (http://www1.leitch.com/resources/tutorials/), particularly this one (http://www1.leitch.com/resources/tutorials/mpeg-2Systems.pdf) by Michael Isnardi, to learn what really goes into DTV Transport Streams.

Does anyone have the channel listings for OTA Comcast non-digital cable?? I've searched a lot but 350+ pages is a pain. thanks guys

ESPN2 just showed up on channel 724 here in Los Altos. 725 is still simulcasting the ESPN2 feed. Is the true anywhere else in the Bay area?

Does anyone have the channel listings for OTA Comcast non-digital cable?? I've searched a lot but 350+ pages is a pain. thanks guys

Go to the Comcast website and type in your address. You'll get your entire channel guide there.

http://comcast.com/Localization/Localize.ashx?*********Home&LinkID=18&NoAuto=1

Does anyone have the channel listings for OTA Comcast non-digital cable?? I've searched a lot but 350+ pages is a pain. thanks guys
You can also go to http://titantv.com. However, the lowest level that you can choose is basic cable (which includes analog extended basic).

I have a SonyXS955 with a built in tuner and standard cable and theres a million extra channels now, for example, 122.2, 121.1, 116.1 and onward. Some of these are HD channels. These are the channels I need the listings for, for some reason all I can find are digital cable listings, i.e. 702, 703, 720 etc...

It's nice to see Comcast is starting to use the extra capacity in the 860MHz areas.

For my area
724 ESPN2-HD is showing up on 789MHz/CH123
725 ESPN2-HD is showing up on 681MHz/CH105

It's nice to see Comcast is starting to use the extra capacity in the 860MHz areas.

For my area
724 ESPN2-HD is showing up on 789MHz/CH123
725 ESPN2-HD is showing up on 681MHz/CH105
They put it on 2 different channels in your area to make up for not having it on any channel in 550 areas. :D

ESPN2 just showed up on channel 724 here in Los Altos. 725 is still simulcasting the ESPN2 feed. Is the true anywhere else in the Bay area?

Not in San Carlos, though at least we have it on 725.

I have a SonyXS955 with a built in tuner and standard cable and theres a million extra channels now, for example, 122.2, 121.1, 116.1 and onward. Some of these are HD channels. These are the channels I need the listings for, for some reason all I can find are digital cable listings, i.e. 702, 703, 720 etc...
I doubt very much that there would be a listing of those channels since comcast seems to reorganize the system every few weeks. The only HD channels in the Bay Area that may be available are FOX, NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, and KRON and they usually are aliased (PSIP) to the correct channel. In my area, NBC is aliased to channel 11 instead of 3 and KRON is not aliased so that one has to be found by looking though all channels. All the other HD channels are encrypted.

It's nice to see Comcast is starting to use the extra capacity in the 860MHz areas.

For my area
724 ESPN2-HD is showing up on 789MHz/CH123
725 ESPN2-HD is showing up on 681MHz/CH105

i also have 724, does that mean palo alto is 860 mhz?

i also have 724, does that mean palo alto is 860 mhz?It does if your 724 is on CH123. Otherwise...no. :D

too lazy to hook up my tv directly to the coaxial to check... i used to have cable card and pq is great, but the dvr is so much easier!

I expect that one of the folks around here who has a Comcast DVR can tell you how to observe the actual rf channel you're tuned to, if you're also too lazy to RTFM.

I expect that one of the folks around here who has a Comcast DVR can tell you how to observe the actual rf channel you're tuned to, if you're also too lazy to RTFM.
Power Off
Select
Down arrow to D06
Select

thanks, says 724 is using 795MHz, i guess i do have unused bandwidth.

thanks, says 724 is using 795MHz, i guess i do have unused bandwidth.

Interesting. We are on 750Mhz here in Fremont and we don't have ESPN on 724 yet. I guess they will need to shuffle some things around to get it in.

Only the 860Mhz areas seem to have ESPN on 724 so far SF, Palo Alto, Los Altos, Areas of San Jose etc

Not quite the 550 bandwidth starvation but a difference never the less.

Kevin

Interesting. We are on 750Mhz here in Fremont and we don't have ESPN on 724 yet. I guess they will need to shuffle some things around to get it in.
There's room on the 750MHz systems also. They just aren't using it yet. 6MHz blocks were freed up with the QAM64 -> QAM256 conversion.

I took a look at my Mhz channel by channel this AM in Rohnert Park. I found 2 channels at 753Mhz. That's pretty close to 750. I wonder if they can slop over a bit or if we are 860.

There's room on the 750MHz systems also. They just aren't using it yet. 6MHz blocks were freed up with the QAM64 -> QAM256 conversion.

Didn't the ADS fill up a lot of these gaps? I have gone through and checked in a while but I would imagine the addition of 70 odd 704x480 channels must have filled in most of the gaps

Kevin

I took a look at my Mhz channel by channel this AM in Rohnert Park. I found 2 channels at 753Mhz. That's pretty close to 750. I wonder if they can slop over a bit or if we are 860.

Same here in Fremont, it is definitely 750Mhz and we have KQED and KGO at 753Mhz. They are pushing the limit but it seems to be okay.

Kevin

Didn't the ADS fill up a lot of these gaps? I have gone through and checked in a while but I would imagine the addition of 70 odd 704x480 channels must have filled in most of the gaps

Kevin
In Fremont, the bands for channels 102, 103, 104, 111, 112, and 113 are still unused. Also the cable system is still not very efficient with some bands using less than half of the maximum bit rate. Bandwidth does not seem to be a big issue unless comcast is concerned about using it up and not being available for future features.

Didn't the ADS fill up a lot of these gaps? I have gone through and checked in a while but I would imagine the addition of 70 odd 704x480 channels must have filled in most of the gaps
QAM256 is twice the bandwidth of QAM64 so your channel capacity in the digital sections doubled because of the transition.

There are around 39 6MHz blocks devoted to digital. VOD (4) and existing HD (7) were already QAM256, so that leaves 32 6MHz blocks converted to QAM256 (give or take a few).

So let's say there were 30 6MHz blocks. That means your existing digital cable channels can now fit in roughly 15 channels, freeing up 15 channels for new programming.

ADS channels are around 8 channels per 6MHz, so 72 analog channels would take up 9 6MHz blocks, so you should have around 6 channels left over. Of those, 2 more are taken up by Digital FM (1) and Music channels (1).

So I estimate in your 750MHz area you should have at least 4 6MHz blocks available, maybe more.

With 3 HD channels per block, that means you have space for 12 HD channels.

I'm sure there are factors that could limit these estimates so take them with a grain of salt, but I'm sure they can fit 1 measly ESPN2-HD :)

860MHz areas clearly have enough bandwidth to compete with Dish's HD offerings, but it isn't being used right now, except for (in my area) ESPN2-HD (789), Music channels (759), and 1 block of ADS (765)

This KGO blurry stuff really bites. My eyes are hurting.

This KGO blurry stuff really bites. My eyes are hurting.
No Sh!t!!!

It's ridiculous, there is no way anyone at KGO is even paying attention, and since I've called twice, and even spoken with a live body, I have to assume they don't give a crap either.

I doubt very much that there would be a listing of those channels since comcast seems to reorganize the system every few weeks. The only HD channels in the Bay Area that may be available are FOX, NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS, and KRON and they usually are aliased (PSIP) to the correct channel. In my area, NBC is aliased to channel 11 instead of 3 and KRON is not aliased so that one has to be found by looking though all channels. All the other HD channels are encrypted.

This is the kind of thing I want to know more about. With a QAM tuner (I'm considering the MDP-130, but I'm guessing this affects those with TV's with QAM tuners as well), how often will I have to rescan to get the channel assignments correct? How many encrypted/blank channels will I have to delete each time I rescan?

Also, for you MyHD owners, can I get multiple ADS digital channels on different subchannels by recording a single channel?

{1} how often will I have to rescan to get the channel assignments correct? {2} How many encrypted/blank channels will I have to delete each time I rescan? {3} Also, for you MyHD owners, can I get multiple ADS digital channels on different subchannels by recording a single channel?1. It varies a lot and can go from months of stable configuration to several changes in a week, depending upon what Comcast is doing on the local system.

2. Lots/none, depending upon whether or not you choose to delete the encrypted channels at all. You can set up all the channels of interest in your Favorites list and just leave the scanned list alone.

3. Yes. BFD (IMO, as I have almost never found this to be useful).

i noticed last night that INHD (719) was displaying "mojo" logos as mentioned in the programming forum. weird thing is INHD2 was the channel that stayed, since speculation is that INHD2 was going away. i don't mind that they combine the two channels, but something has to be done about FSNBA-HD if they do move. with the increasing selection and quality of HD channels now available, it seems safe to assume INHD will be phased out if it does not increase original programming.

Mojo is a programming block within INHD, not a new channel.

i noticed last night that INHD (719) was displaying "mojo" logos as mentioned in the programming forum. weird thing is INHD2 was the channel that stayed, since speculation is that INHD2 was going away. i don't mind that they combine the two channels, but something has to be done about FSNBA-HD if they do move. with the increasing selection and quality of HD channels now available, it seems safe to assume INHD will be phased out if it does not increase original programming.

ESPN2 HD is now on Channel 724 with the TV Guide in Fremont on the 750 MHz system.

According to my tests, that channel is running at about 19 mb/s compared to channel 725 which is running at about 13.5 mb/s. However, when I was watching the College World Series, I couldn't find any difference in PQ between the two channels. So I wonder if the bit rates make much of a difference at all.

Also, the new channel is at 759 MHz so I wonder if the Fremont cable system is really an 860 MHz system.

FSNBA-HD has sidebars on SD stuff now... lol... it says FSN-HD... so ugly too, i wonder if they copied it from ESPN.

Also, the new channel is at 759 MHz so I wonder if the Fremont cable system is really an 860 MHz system.

When I had a Network Tech out he commented that it is 750Mhz. I think they are just pushing the envelope. It is no where as high frequency as some of the 860Mhz areas.

I could be wrong of course the info did come from a tech :)

ESPN2HD showed up on 724 today in Albany (San Pablo Rebuild).

ESPN2HD showed up on 724 today in Albany (San Pablo Rebuild).

Just checked and it's shown up in San Carlos as well (including Guide info).

Is it showing as 'ESPN2' for the channel? It is for me and I'm afraid we're going to see the same problems as we had with KGO when we first got KGO-HD. Because the guide looks at the call letters for season programming, it can't differentiate between ESPN2 (ch. 39) and ESPN2 (ch. 725). I hope they've updated the guide software to eliminate this problem...

Is it showing as 'ESPN2' for the channel? It is for me and I'm afraid we're going to see the same problems as we had with KGO when we first got KGO-HD. Because the guide looks at the call letters for season programming, it can't differentiate between ESPN2 (ch. 39) and ESPN2 (ch. 725). I hope they've updated the guide software to eliminate this problem...

Right now, in Rohnert Park, it shows ESPN2 while channel 723 (ESPN-HD) shows ESPND. You're right, this can be a problem.

Is it showing as 'ESPN2' for the channel? It is for me and I'm afraid we're going to see the same problems as we had with KGO when we first got KGO-HD. Because the guide looks at the call letters for season programming, it can't differentiate between ESPN2 (ch. 39) and ESPN2 (ch. 725). I hope they've updated the guide software to eliminate this problem...

Yes, mine (San Carlos) is showing:

38: ESPN
39: ESPN2
723: ESPND
724: ESPN2

Can you describe in more detail the issue with the guide's use of call letters and the channel differentiation (is this principally a DVR issue on which channel to record)? Or is it an issue regarding the accuracy of the channel guide itself? (I assume it has nothing to do with mapping channels to the proper feed since my 724 is defintiely HD, at least at this point in time).

Thanks.

Can you describe in more detail the issue with the guide's use of call letters and the channel differentiation (is this principally a DVR issue on which channel to record)? Or is it an issue regarding the accuracy of the channel guide itself? (I assume it has nothing to do with mapping channels to the proper feed since my 724 is defintiely HD, at least at this point in time).

Thanks.

What happened with KGO is that both the SD and HD channel had the same call letters: KGO & KGO. So if you set up a season recording to record, say, Lost on channel 707, when it came time to record, the DVR software said 'Okay, record KGO from 9:00 to 10:00". It scanned through the channel list and when it got to channel 7 it said "Oh, there it is!" and it would record it and not 707. This was a while ago so I have no idea if the problem still exists. Back then, they fixed it by changing 707's call letters to KGOHD.

Note: my DVR doesn't really talk...although if it did it would probably say "Help! Help! I can't change the channel, I'm locked up, and I can't tune to nearly as many HD channels as other areas."

I think the guide has a length of station name parameter of no more than 5 letters. All they need to do is change 724 from ESPN2 to ESN2D. Problem fixed. maybe they will look at our thread and figure that out.

I just checked and my DVR correctly recorded the Italy/Czech game on 724. Although I seem to remember the problem occuring on KGO with season passes...not with one-time recordings. Anybody else remember?

Note: my DVR doesn't really talk...although if it did it would probably say "Help! Help! I can't change the channel, I'm locked up, and I can't tune to nearly as many HD channels as other areas."

LOL.

Thanks for the explanation of the potential problem.

Oh, this is just too funny.

http://us.gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/comcast-tech-falls-asleep-on-guys-couch-182440.php

It would have been a better video if the laptop fell off his lap when he fell asleep and he jumped up all startled looking, then launched into an invective ladened tirade.

I was all excited by the writeup and was already laughing before hitting play, but it was a letdown because I couldn't easily tell where he fell asleep despite the captions.

Anyone else watching the Giants/A's game on 720 getting a little stuttering/glitching? Like it's dropping frames. Other channels like 719 look ok... Signal levels all look ok...

Anyone else watching the Giants/A's game on 720 getting a little stuttering/glitching? Like it's dropping frames. Other channels like 719 look ok... Signal levels all look ok...
I noticed it also but I thought it was just because I'm in the Comcast ghetto's, nice that they are showing it in HD on 720 because channel 702 sure isn't.
Also, you're not watching the Giants/A's game on 720, it's the A's/Giants game on that channel. The Giants/A's game is on channel 702. That's how FSN can show the game on 720 and not be blacked out because they are showing the A's game not the Giants game.... I know it sounds weird but that's why we can watch the game in HD so I'm not complaining.... yet... :)

Laters,
Mikef5

Oh I didn't even check 702. Well the glitches weren't too bad and I'd rather watch it in HD even if I have to put up with the A's broadcasters. Pretty startling how bad their knowledge is, even of the other local team!

Yes both teams share TV rights in the Bay Area. Be thankful you're not a DC Nationals fan, they can't even watch their own games because the Orioles own the TV rights!

Oh I didn't even check 702. Well the glitches weren't too bad and I'd rather watch it in HD even if I have to put up with the A's broadcasters. Pretty startling how bad their knowledge is, even of the other local team!

Not to take this off topic, but are you kidding me???? Okay, I'll give you Glen Kuiper...he's pretty useless. But Fosse? He always has insightful things to say. And at least they attempt to talk about baseball where as "Kruk and Kuip" spend the whole game panning the stands making stupid jokes/references about the fans. I also find it hard to take an ex-position player seriously when he hit only 1 home run in over 3300 at-bats. He should have "accidentally" hit more home runs then that. :D I do like Jon Miller though...as long as he's not with Joe Morgan.

Yeah well, how many MLB home runs have you hit? 8) You know you can't beat K&K, they are simply the best announcers in baseball in their price range! The crowd stuff is funny when baseball gets a little slow sometimes, and anyway the director would be calling those shots, they just react to em.

Didn't see any glitches on 720 on Sunday (other than in Barry Bonds' knee..)

Yeah well, how many MLB home runs have you hit? 8) You know you can't beat K&K, they are simply the best announcers in baseball in their price range! The crowd stuff is funny when baseball gets a little slow sometimes, and anyway the director would be calling those shots, they just react to em.

Didn't see any glitches on 720 on Sunday (other than in Barry Bonds' knee..)

Touche!!! :D You're right, they're not that bad. Although if they call MARK Kotsay "STEVE Kotsay" one more time, I'm going to scream. They did it all throughout both series. Oh well...I guess that's what happens when you're a fan of the Bay Area's step child team.

last night 705 was glitchy also. every couple seconds there was a glitch. cbsused to be the best, but now I don't know what's going on.

jeff

Maybe they're getting ready to add the sub-channel that was announced by CBS earlier in the year, "Innertube" or something like that..?

You folks in the high rent areas, does Comcast carry the NFL Network, are they going to have the exclusive 8 late season HD games available?

You folks in the high rent areas, does Comcast carry the NFL Network, are they going to have the exclusive 8 late season HD games available?

We have NFL Network here in Redwood City (San Carlos Rebuild) but it is not in HD. Your guess is as good as mine if they will move to HD.

Wasn't 725 used last year to show the NFL Game of the Week in HD?

Wasn't 725 used last year to show the NFL Game of the Week in HD?
I thought I read something like that here, reason I ask is there will be 8 late-season games which will only be seen on NFL Network-something else we don't get up here.

Wasn't 725 used last year to show the NFL Game of the Week in HD?

Yes, 725 carried NFL Game of the Week last year, in HD.

Well, now that all the woofing about the Giants and A's is done, a question. ;-) Do any of the currently available STBs in the SF Bay Area output a 480i anamorphic signal? I am one of those oddball folks who bought a pre-HD widescreen set back in 1997 when DVD first came out. The TV is relegated to the workout area, but it would be nice to be able to feed it a widescreen signal In my main viewing area, I have a 6412 DVR--but when you shift that box to 480i, it gives you a non-anamorphic letterbox picture on the HD channels. Would this work with either of the non-DVR set top boxes? Any other ideas to make this work?

i can't remember the who amorphic/etc definition, but maybe this will help.

before i had my HDTV, i got HD service from Comcast and hooked it up to my old 36" Wega set via Svideo and could watch in 480i, widescreen format.

Well, now that all the woofing about the Giants and A's is done, a question. ;-) Do any of the currently available STBs in the SF Bay Area output a 480i anamorphic signal? I am one of those oddball folks who bought a pre-HD widescreen set back in 1997 when DVD first came out. The TV is relegated to the workout area, but it would be nice to be able to feed it a widescreen signal In my main viewing area, I have a 6412 DVR--but when you shift that box to 480i, it gives you a non-anamorphic letterbox picture on the HD channels. Would this work with either of the non-DVR set top boxes? Any other ideas to make this work?

i can't remember the whole anamorphic/etc definition, but maybe this will help.

before i had my HDTV, i got HD service from Comcast and hooked it up to my old 36" Wega set via Svideo and could watch in 480i, widescreen format.

Well, now that all the woofing about the Giants and A's is done, a question. ;-) Do any of the currently available STBs in the SF Bay Area output a 480i anamorphic signal? I am one of those oddball folks who bought a pre-HD widescreen set back in 1997 when DVD first came out. The TV is relegated to the workout area, but it would be nice to be able to feed it a widescreen signal In my main viewing area, I have a 6412 DVR--but when you shift that box to 480i, it gives you a non-anamorphic letterbox picture on the HD channels. Would this work with either of the non-DVR set top boxes? Any other ideas to make this work?

No you can't get anamorphic 480i out of the Moto box.

You can sort of do the opposite.. the 480i Override setting of "Stretch" will convert 4:3 source material (non-HD) to 720p or 1080i and fill the screen (with badly distorted aspect ratio..)

Other ideas? Yes, an expensive box like the DVDO might do what you want, but I've not used it, and it is expensive.

Any clue when Comcast plans to more HD channels to the their lineup? It's been a while.

Any clue when Comcast plans to more HD channels to the their lineup? It's been a while.

a while being?? 1 month? its been one month since espn2hd was added. don't tell me ur in a 550mhz zone cuz ur pretty screwed.

In Santa Rosa we have never had one added, that's got to be some sort of bizarre Comcast record. :D

a while being?? 1 month? its been one month since espn2hd was added. don't tell me ur in a 550mhz zone cuz ur pretty screwed.

I live in a 750 Mhz area in Sacramento, and we still don't have ESPN2. We are still trying to figure out what is going on.

Some of the systems back east that didn't have UHD and TNT finally had then turned on today.

Some of the systems back east that didn't have UHD and TNT finally had then turned on today.

east is LEAST

west is BEST

are we next?? sigh.

east is LEAST

west is BEST

are we next?? sigh.
I think you are posting on the wrong Comcast thread :(

just trying to make myself feel better.

California Cities May Lose Power Over Cable TV

A compromise on a bill to let phone giants offer pay-TV service would strip California localities of most of their power over the cable industry
By Marc Lifsher and James S. Granelli Los Angeles Times Staff Writers June 28, 2006

Full article at link below,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7913587#post7913587
Hot Off The Press! The Latest Television News and Info - AVS Forum

It's pretty much a given that this is contributing to the inaction of Comcast in Santa Rosa as the bill would go into effect Jan 1, 2007.

California Cities May Lose Power Over Cable TV

I still think this is a great idea and holds the most potential for having competition within the state. One of the quotes was:

Local governments are particularly worried that they would get less money from cable TV operators through franchise fees.
I interpret this as "Local governments are worried they won't be able to strike exclusive agreements with a single MSO so they can extort as much money as possible." I know this is not the case in all cities but definitely the case in Walnut Creek. The way I see it, Walnut Creek would be forced to allow Comcast to build-out/expand their cable offerings since Comcast could just bypass the local government and get the franchise agreement from the state. This also means that Verizon, SBC, etc. could do the same thing and before you know it, you have 3 different options for cable TV. Of course there's the little thing called "infrastructure" that needs to be built and Comcast has a leg up on most companies. It would be wise for telephony companies to look to places like Santa Rosa, Anticoch, and other cities that are getting shafted by lack of upgrades as those customers have the most to gain by switching over.

The way I read it is that even though the cities are worried about losing money they would still get the 5% they normally would get from the provider. I think what they are really worried about are the communication/community access broadcast centers/equipment and accompanying channels that would probably be much harder to negotiate for, and bandwidth for city use like the silly-ass traffic monitoring system Santa Rosa wants up here.

The part I'm unclear about is if it's a statewide franchise, what's to prevent the provider from choosing to go into one area over the other. For example, ATT could go into San Jose today but not go into Santa Rosa for years.

The part I'm unclear about is if it's a statewide franchise, what's to prevent the provider from choosing to go into one area over the other. For example, ATT could go into San Jose today but not go into Santa Rosa for years.
You mean like Comcast is doing to the 550 MHz areas by selectively upgrading other areas but because we are not cost effective enough we will be excluded from being upgraded like the rest of the Bay Area but will still be charged the same for less service ????
Again, for the Comcast people that read this forum, do the right thing and upgrade ALL THE AREAS to the same level.

Laters,
Mikef5

Exactly like that, something tells me this bill will be pliable enough to allow that to happen, it won't be considered red lining, but in effect it will be the same thing.

Exactly like that, something tells me this bill will be pliable enough to allow that to happen, it won't be considered red lining, but in effect it will be the same thing.
Actually, Comcast could do it right now. All they have to do is say they no longer will provide service to any system that is 550 MHz or below and pull out of those areas all together ( of course that would be after the franchise agreement was completed and not renewed ) and there would be nothing that the local franchise board could do but try that same thing with the State and see what happens, they would not be dealing with individual cities but the State. That's not to say that the State franchise board wouldn't rollover and agree with Comcast but that would cause many people to contact their congressmen or senators to complain about being redlined. PR is very important to large monopolies and bad PR is bad for their image and for their bottom line.

Laters,
Mikef5

Hey guys just came back from Iraq. Just got cut up with thread. Man it sucks no espn 2 hd
for the world cup big fan of soccer. My brother law works at comcast in San Ramon he said
that in Pittsburg wont see any inpovement tell Q1 of 2007. He said that 850/750 well
be in ds before 550 systems. He said comcast Hq does not want spend on 550 systems. He
said lot of that dont have digital cable thats why there not spending 550 systems.
He said that they stop going 256 qam for wright know. He said does not know when day
will start on 550 but said that 850/750 will go first 256qam and ds

usc10

What package is the minimum I must subscribe to to be able to order a HD DVR?

Standard Cable plus Digital Classic, runs about $70-75 a month.

a while being?? 1 month? its been one month since espn2hd was added. don't tell me ur in a 550mhz zone cuz ur pretty screwed.

Then I guess I'm screwed but atleast Comcast is consistant with their shafting.

Actually, Comcast could do it right now. All they have to do is say they no longer will provide service to any system that is 550 MHz or below and pull out of those areas all together ( of course that would be after the franchise agreement was completed and not renewed ) and there would be nothing that the local franchise board could do but try that same thing with the State and see what happens, they would not be dealing with individual cities but the State. That's not to say that the State franchise board wouldn't rollover and agree with Comcast but that would cause many people to contact their congressmen or senators to complain about being redlined. PR is very important to large monopolies and bad PR is bad for their image and for their bottom line.

Laters,
Mikef5

But wouldn't a state-level franchise make it easier for another MSO to "swoop in" and take Comcast's place? I imagine it all comes down to how much it's going to cost to build the infrastructure. Does anyone know what the average cost of implementing a FiOS infrastructure is compared to cable-based upgrade? If I understand it correctly, building a FiOS network is the opposite of upgrading a cable network. The cable companies have to build out to the local hub while FiOS has be installed from the local switching station to the curb. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

But wouldn't a state-level franchise make it easier for another MSO to "swoop in" and take Comcast's place? I imagine it all comes down to how much it's going to cost to build the infrastructure. Does anyone know what the average cost of implementing a FiOS infrastructure is compared to cable-based upgrade? If I understand it correctly, building a FiOS network is the opposite of upgrading a cable network. The cable companies have to build out to the local hub while FiOS has be installed from the local switching station to the curb. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
That's the point, please some one swoop in and give Comcast the competition that is needed. If Comcast doesn't want to upgrade the 550 MHz and lower areas then step aside and let someone else do the job. I don't care what it costs them to do it, just do it, upgrade all the areas to the same level of service, that's what I pay for and what I expect them to do. I'm tired of the pie in the sky promises that never pan out at least when Dish and Directv offer upgrades it's to all their customers and all their customers have access to all of their programing, they don't redline areas and they don't tell their customers that they are not cost effective enough to bother with.
End of this rant..... for now :rolleyes:

Laters,
Mikef5

Saw this on another thread:

http://www.comcast.com/guideupdates/

Anyone hear anything about this? Barovelli???

Its been delayed the new I-Guide. But Denver is testing it wright now.

almost looks like no change... how about they change the interface and/or response time.

almost looks like no change... how about they change the interface and/or response time.

I'm more interested in the "several functionality improvements". God, I hope they fix the remote-lag issue.

I can see where the screen saver would be handy when you've paused for a length of time, but doesn't the menu time-out already?

Yes, the menu times out after awhile as well as the pause. I guess the screensaver would allow you to pause a recorded program indefinitely.

Also, I have noticed two new channels on 513 and 514 in Rohnert Park. They are Indieplex and Retroplex, two oldies movies stations. No commercials, that I've seen. They both belong to Starz, so you may need to have a Starz sub to see them. They came up on Wednesday with the guide showing just the channel number and to be announced. Yesterday they had all the guide info. They are both SD channels.

No such channels in Santa Rosa...big surprise.. :rolleyes:

I just read on hdbeat.com that the space shuttle launch is going to be carried by HDNET, and according to them, the last one was spectacular and very well covered in glorious HD.

Anyone know if we might get a taste of this action? I know we have the INHD channels rather than the HDNet channels, but I know I've seen some random HDNet programing on Comcast before (I've seen the logo on some shows), so perhaps we'll get this one.

Anyone know?

-=Brazil=-
ps. Anyone having trouble getting OLN right now? It's channel 81 or so, and I haven't been able to get it for weeks!

I just read on hdbeat.com that the space shuttle launch is going to be carried by HDNET, and according to them, the last one was spectacular and very well covered in glorious HD.

Anyone know if we might get a taste of this action? I know we have the INHD channels rather than the HDNet channels, but I know I've seen some random HDNet programing on Comcast before (I've seen the logo on some shows), so perhaps we'll get this one.

Anyone know?

You're probably thinking of KRON-HD (channel 704) which shows old HDNET programming (1+ years old). So if we're lucky, we can see the shuttle launch next summer.

I'm receiving both IndiePlex 513 and RetroPlex 514. Hadn't noticed them before either. They are not blocked. I am also receiving MoviePlex on 149 which may have been there before, I don't remember. They are actually part of Encore. Encore lists Indie and Retro as "new channels".

I just read on hdbeat.com that the space shuttle launch is going to be carried by HDNET, and according to them, the last one was spectacular and very well covered in glorious HD.

Anyone know if we might get a taste of this action? I know we have the INHD channels rather than the HDNet channels, but I know I've seen some random HDNet programing on Comcast before (I've seen the logo on some shows), so perhaps we'll get this one.

Anyone know?

-=Brazil=-
ps. Anyone having trouble getting OLN right now? It's channel 81 or so, and I haven't been able to get it for weeks!
HDNet has exclusive rights to broadcast the shuttle launch live in HD. Only way to see it is if you get HDNet, which of course, Comcast doesn't carry.

The last one was pretty spectacular, some fantastic HD images.

Comcast had a message a while back that IndiePlex and RetroPlex would be replacing two channels, one was an Encore channel. I briefly see a subscription needed flash but then the channel comes up. If it is a replacement in your package then I suspect no additional subscription to Starz would be needed (I don't subscribe to Starz).

I think what they are really worried about are the communication/community access broadcast centers/equipment and accompanying channels that would probably be much harder to negotiate for

Agreed. Local control seems an antiquated notion, as does the very idea of community TV. Here in West Marin, a community radio station - KWMR - is far superior to the amateurish content mostly seen on Marin TV.

Saw this on another thread:

http://www.comcast.com/guideupdates/

Anyone hear anything about this? Barovelli???

Yep, sent back to the kitchen.

Yep, sent back to the kitchen.

I saw that one of the Denver people posted saying it did NOT fix the remote delay issue. I think we may need a new recipe here...

so I come home today and turn on the tv and the screen is completely green. The audio works just fine, a direct coax input to the tv works fine, but from my DCT6412 III via HDMI to my tv, the screen is green. When I unplug the box, unplug the HDMI or cycle inputs, the picture comes back on normal for about 5 seconds and then turns green again. I tried a different HDMI cable and got the same problem. I tried using a different HDMI input on the tv and got the same problem. It's got to be something with the cable box and I tried power cycling, but it's a no go. Anyone else with this problem?

so I come home today and turn on the tv and the screen is completely green. The audio works just fine, a direct coax input to the tv works fine, but from my DCT6412 III via HDMI to my tv, the screen is green. When I unplug the box, unplug the HDMI or cycle inputs, the picture comes back on normal for about 5 seconds and then turns green again. I tried a different HDMI cable and got the same problem. I tried using a different HDMI input on the tv and got the same problem. It's got to be something with the cable box and I tried power cycling, but it's a no go. Anyone else with this problem?

I had something similar happen to me a while ago (probably about a year) and I had to have a rep send a "hard" hit to my box (i.e. doing a complete re-set). I never found out what the problem was but I remember thinking it may have had to do with a faulty download that left me with incomplete software.

thanks for the info.

For some reason the component cable works ok. Unfortunately I don't have another TV with HDMI, so I can't isolate if it is a tv HDMI problem or a cable box HDMI problem. I'm gonna play the odds and say it's a comcast problem. :) Also, since it won't work on 2 different HDMI inputs and since it works for a few seconds before going green, it also seems like a box issue.

Comcast sent a signal to the box, but not a total reset. Someone is supposed to come out on Sunday, but I'll watch everything I have recorded and then have them send a hard reset and see what happens.

My HD Moto cable box no longer shows the right time. It's always 12:00 and I get no guide information on this box. When I hit menu, the screen says something like: This feature is unavailable and will be restored shortly.

I have 2 boxes and the other one works fine. Any ideas? Do I really have to call Comcast to get this fixed? Do they have to come to see it or can they just do something remotely. Comcast repair is like SBC Phone and DSL repair, always wants to send someone and get nothing done.

Thoughts?

My HD Moto cable box no longer shows the right time. It's always 12:00 and I get no guide information on this box. When I hit menu, the screen says something like: This feature is unavailable and will be restored shortly.

I have 2 boxes and the other one works fine. Any ideas? Do I really have to call Comcast to get this fixed? Do they have to come to see it or can they just do something remotely. Comcast repair is like SBC Phone and DSL repair, always wants to send someone and get nothing done.

Thoughts?

Your box is not talking to the head-end. Did you do anything to your setup before this symptom, like add a splitter or amp? If not, I'd say to unplug the box for a half hour and plug it back in. See if that corrects it. If not, try a reboot. If that doesn't work, it's time for a new box.

My HD Moto cable box no longer shows the right time. It's always 12:00 and I get no guide information on this box. When I hit menu, the screen says something like: This feature is unavailable and will be restored shortly.

I have 2 boxes and the other one works fine. Any ideas? Do I really have to call Comcast to get this fixed? Do they have to come to see it or can they just do something remotely. Comcast repair is like SBC Phone and DSL repair, always wants to send someone and get nothing done.

Thoughts?

Is there a picture? No clock & no guide is a sign of no signal - or the box is not listening to the signal from the head end. The clock should kick right in. Check the input. Is anything in-line between the box and the signal (a-b switches, VCR, etc).

Comcast will always try a re-initialze before rolling a tech.

SBC repair? Don't even get me started at that company's response time. Ditched them for CDV as soon as I could.

thanks for the info.

For some reason the component cable works ok. Unfortunately I don't have another TV with HDMI, so I can't isolate if it is a tv HDMI problem or a cable box HDMI problem. I'm gonna play the odds and say it's a comcast problem. :) Also, since it won't work on 2 different HDMI inputs and since it works for a few seconds before going green, it also seems like a box issue.

Long shot, here.

Try going to the screen resolution settings (power off, menu) and find "Reset Defaults" at the bottom. Might re-negotiate the HDMI connection.

Your box is not talking to the head-end. Did you do anything to your setup before this symptom, like add a splitter or amp? If not, I'd say to unplug the box for a half hour and plug it back in. See if that corrects it. If not, try a reboot. If that doesn't work, it's time for a new box.

I had unplugged the box and then plugged it back in to move it, when it lost the time. The guide had been lost for a while. I've removed splitters that were there, but the unit was working when the splitters were there before. I did not try to unplug the box for half and hour, I did do it for like 10 seconds. Is there really a difference?

How do I do a reboot?

I've been waiting online for Comcast Support Chat and I was #240 in line and after about an hour of waiting, I'm #36 and waiting...

so I come home today and turn on the tv and the screen is completely green. The audio works just fine, a direct coax input to the tv works fine, but from my DCT6412 III via HDMI to my tv, the screen is green. When I unplug the box, unplug the HDMI or cycle inputs, the picture comes back on normal for about 5 seconds and then turns green again. I tried a different HDMI cable and got the same problem. I tried using a different HDMI input on the tv and got the same problem. It's got to be something with the cable box and I tried power cycling, but it's a no go. Anyone else with this problem?

Check the wiki:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR
That is certainly a HDCP problem.

See also:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=604142 (3412 thread)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558602 (6412 PIII thread)

Check the wiki:
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR
That is certainly a HDCP problem.

See also:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=604142 (3412 thread)
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=558602 (6412 PIII thread)

Thanks for the help. It was definitely a HDCP problem. Wiki comes through again. :)

I had unplugged the box and then plugged it back in to move it, when it lost the time. The guide had been lost for a while. I've removed splitters that were there, but the unit was working when the splitters were there before. I did not try to unplug the box for half and hour, I did do it for like 10 seconds. Is there really a difference?

How do I do a reboot?

I've been waiting online for Comcast Support Chat and I was #240 in line and after about an hour of waiting, I'm #36 and waiting...

You unplugged the box to move it. Did you add any coax or change the coax feed when you moved it? Something has changed your feed to the box, it seems its whatever coax changes you made is the culprit. Have you tried to remove the cable from the box and then reseat it. Maybe it's not fully attached or grounded. Barovelli is right on, do you have a picture?

Actually, thinking about it, you said the guide had been lost for a while. That tells me that you have been having a signal problem for all that while. When you unplugged the loss of power wouldn't let the box reset the clock either. If the box isn't talking to the head end, you probably won't fix it by a reboot.

You unplugged the box to move it. Did you add any coax or change the coax feed when you moved it? Something has changed your feed to the box, it seems its whatever coax changes you made is the culprit. Have you tried to remove the cable from the box and then reseat it. Maybe it's not fully attached or grounded. Barovelli is right on, do you have a picture?

Actually, thinking about it, you said the guide had been lost for a while. That tells me that you have been having a signal problem for all that while. When you unplugged the loss of power wouldn't let the box reset the clock either. If the box isn't talking to the head end, you probably won't fix it by a reboot.

I've removed the extra connection as well as one more along the path and it still doesn't work. Yes I do get video and am able to watch my HD channels, so the signal would seem to be fine. I can try moving the box to the location where the other box works.

I "spoke" to comcast via the online chat after a 3+ hours wait. And they supposedly sent a reset signal to my box, but that didn't work either. (Whether or not they really sent one successfully is undetermined.)

How do I "reboot"?

Thanks for all the help.

I moved the box to the same location as the working 6200 and still not luck. It's not talking to the head end for sure. In the configuration page of the menu, it says it's not connected to MCA and it's not receiving any messages. I guess I'll try comcast support again, unless someone knows how to hard reboot these units? I've unplugged and left unplugged for an extended period of time as well. I'll try and search for how to reboot it as well.

Okay I got the unit to hard reboot and go to the menu

On the unit it shows - n dl

I then press select and it goes through a cycle of:
Fr 1
hunt
Fr 2
hunt
all the way to Fr 10 hunt

and it does it twice and then ends with:
E611
E602

Then goes back to: n dl

ends with:
E611
E602

Then goes back to: n dl

Codes are
Eb 11 - Fail to lock OOB Frequency.
Eb 02 - Download Timeout

Both indicators of no signal getting to the circuit. A check of the diagnostics ( connect, Inband, and OOB) would confirm.

If the box's connection to the cable is OK, then the connection internally has failed.

Codes are
Eb 11 - Fail to lock OOB Frequency.
Eb 02 - Download Timeout

Both indicators of no signal getting to the circuit. A check of the diagnostics ( connect, Inband, and OOB) would confirm.

If the box's connection to the cable is OK, then the connection internally has failed.

One more thing russwong could try. Rotate the working box into the non working location. If it works fine then the other box is bad. If it doesn't, then something is wrong with the connection or cable.

One more thing russwong could try. Rotate the working box into the non working location. If it works fine then the other box is bad. If it doesn't, then something is wrong with the connection or cable.

Thanks, I did move the non-working box to the location of the working box and no luck. I don't want to unplug the working box, just in case... but it's leading me to believe it's the box. I'm going to take the box to comcast and replace it tomorrow.

Thanks for everyone's help!

Russ

Michael Finney the KGO consumer guy had the Comcast PR tap dancer on his weekend radio show. Someone called in and asked about San Larenzo which does not have OnDemand and is of course an older 550 mhz system. The guy tap danced around that a bit saying that when they switch over to all digital they can then offer that and it would be a bout a year and half off. I wonder how many listeners like me wondered why doesn't Comcast offer a discount to people in those areas until the switchover?

Because their position is they are not charging extra for the additional channels and services, in other words 550Mhz systems get everything they're paying for, larger BW systems just happen to get more stuff free.

Comcast will never lower prices for 550 systems due to some inequity in services, the old never give back what you already have thing.

Meanwhile, watched "2001:A Space Odyssesy", first time ever in HD on HDNet and it looks almost as good as a HD-DVD, spectacular transfer, should check it out...oh that's right, Comcast doesn't have HDNet... :p :D

There's an article in today's Chron by David Lazarus that talks about the new amendment in the state bill that would allow MSO's to back out of existing franchise contracts if they choose. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2006/07/02/BUGPOJNH5P1.DTL&type=business

Keenan, I think you were talking abou this.

Yes, that article pretty much covers it.

"This bill has disaster written all over it," said Bob Finkelstein, executive director of The Utility Reform Network, a San Francisco consumer group. "Anytime you've got AT&T, Verizon and Comcast all pushing for the same legislation, what worse rogue's gallery could there be from a consumer's perspective?"
You can say that again.... :rolleyes:

Johnson said Comcast would look at its 128 franchise agreements with California cities on a case-by-case basis and determine which ones will be tossed aside in favor of a state franchising pact.
Guess which one is going to be right near the top of that list? :D

Like there's really going to be a list, what current franchise agreement that Comcast has now wouldn't be beneficial for them to dump? Are there any cities that ask for nothing from the cable company, I doubt it.

Anyone having trouble with ESPN2-HD? I'm not able to get a signal on both 724 and 725, although the Guide looks up to date.

At 1:07PM 724 and 725 are working fine in Rohnert Park.

No more FSNBA-HD exclusive for Comcast, Tigers/A's game was on DirecTV tonight in HD on a new HD channel dedicated for local RSN HD games. :)

Dish won't be far behind.

Also, some markets have reported CW(UPN-WB) showing up in the last few days on DirecTV.

550 Comcast systems are rapidly becoming the very last choice when it comes to HD, of course, Comcast could care less.

No more FSNBA-HD exclusive for Comcast, Tigers/A's game was on DirecTV tonight in HD on a new HD channel dedicated for local RSN HD games. :)

Dish won't be far behind.

Also, some markets have reported CW(UPN-WB) showing up in the last few days on DirecTV.

550 Comcast systems are rapidly becoming the very last choice when it comes to HD, of course, Comcast could care less.

Is this going to be consistent thing or only "every now and then"? What about Warriors, Giants, and Sharks?

Is this going to be consistent thing or only "every now and then"? What about Warriors, Giants, and Sharks?
I don't know, they just started on July 1st with about 14-15 RSNs across the country. The channel number being used was previously a national MPEG2 channel that was used primarily during Sunday Ticket and for various games from RSNs that DirecTV already had contracts with. Now the channel is accessible only with a MPEG4 capable receiver as they have re-purposed the channel number in each RSN market with the local RSN feed.

IOW, Ch 96 used to be national, now Ch 96 has different content in each market, where there used to be one channel 96, now there are over 15.

I would guess that initially only the games will be shown, and I'm not even sure which sports as it's brand new, I would guess that it would air the same stuff that is on INHD. Although, now that the channel is a local channel per se, 24/7 content probably isn't too far off as it really couldn't be used for anything else. I suppose the bandwidth could be re-used during a football Sunday, shutting down the local RSN feed, but I don't see them doing that as DirecTV as an abundance of MPEG4 bandwidth available. I'll bet the actual channel number will be changed eventually to fall in line where the rest of the local channels reside.

Bottom line is that it's great news for 550 system customers who are considering DirecTV(Dish won't far behind either) and that Comcast is sorely lacking when it comes to HD in the bay area. Even systems that didn't have TNT-HD for a long time are finally getting it added lately, yet we see nothing here in the bay area. It will be interesting to see how long it will take for them to respond. It wouldn't surprise me to see DirecTV and Dish carry KBCW(the old KBHK) long before Comcast does and KBCW has a pretty hefty HD primetime lineup coming in the fall.

on a brighter note, comcast digital voice is available for 39.99/mo, which is .... oh about double my normal phone bill. i know this because comcast deemed it important enough to send to my box twice. oh and mail spam too, gotta love that. and if i checked my email spam, it probably be in there too.

I guess the Wimbledon is blacked out on 724/ESPN2 right now, since it's on 707 ABC?

I guess the Wimbledon is blacked out on 724/ESPN2 right now, since it's on 707 ABC?
It's on KNTV, 703. NBC has the rights.

Is this going to be consistent thing or only "every now and then"? What about Warriors, Giants, and Sharks?
FWIW,

Last night I watched the A' vs Tiger's game in HD on channel 96. No audio but that may be a blessing. I spoke with D* customer service and was informed they are being turned on in my area SF Bay Area. No formal announcement but the game was on. Sharks, Warriors, A's, and Giants will be broadcast when FSN has HD available. Being a sports fan this is huge for me.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7943384#post7943384
D* Adding RSNs IN HD - AVS Forum

Thinking about your question I guess you were asking if it was like the national feeds that show select HD games 4-5 times a week and I believe the answer is no, when FSNBA does an HD broadcast it will on.

I've read Commcast can squeeze three HD channels onto one analog channel of bandwidth. Why don't they do this, especially in the 550MHZ areas?

FWIW,




http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7943384#post7943384
D* Adding RSNs IN HD - AVS Forum

Thinking about your question I guess you were asking if it was like the national feeds that show select HD games 4-5 times a week and I believe the answer is no, when FSNBA does an HD broadcast it will on.


Looks like I can finally say GOODBYE to comcast.... :eek: with FSNBA-HD showing up on D*

although I've been on vacation for the last week with the kids in San Diego and no TV ;)...of course the Giants were down here in SD this weekend.

Looks like its time to go satellite shopping when I get back (and if I switch to DSL I can save $30 also (or spend it on more HD))

What is the cost of renting an additional STB from Comcast? I'm moving to the area in a few weeks and deciding how I'll set up my home theater, but the Comcast web site says nothing about this...

What is the cost of renting an additional STB from Comcast? I'm moving to the area in a few weeks and deciding how I'll set up my home theater, but the Comcast web site says nothing about this...
For me it costs $6.95 per month for Digital Additional Outlet (charged when you get a second STB or DRV) plus $9.95 for a DVR (HDTV Service included) or $5 for the HDTV Additional Service if using a STB.

So the following is the cost for a second box with HDTV included.

DVR $16.90 plus taxes
STB $11.95 plus taxes

Just for fun, I went to DirecTV's web site and went through their "new customer" wizard and put together a plan that was comparable to what I have now with Comcast. Getting the TotalChoice Plus, HD Programming package, 2 HD DVR's, and HBO premium, my upfront cost would be $600 (after 2x$100 for HD DVR) and my monthly bill would be $99.95. With Comcast, I have the Digital Silver package, Standard Cable (Limited and Expanded), and 2 HD DVR's. My monthly bill for this ~$91.00 a month.

Comparing the 2 channel lineups, Comcast gives me more SD channels but the packages are basically the same in regards to content (although Comcast has more of the Discovery channels which I enjoy watching). For HD, I live in a 750MHz area so Comcast gives me INHD 1 & 2 while DirecTV gives me TNT-HD, HDNet Movies, HDNet and Universal-HD.

So for $600 up front and $10 more a month I get 4 more HD channel (2 if you swap the HDNets with INHDs), a few less SD channels, and my house re-wired for satellite. I know it may seem like I've drank the Comcast coolaid but I just don't think it's worth it. Even I was living in a 550MHz area, I still would find it hard to justify the upfront costs for a few more HD channels and OnDemand. If 70%+ of my TV viewing were HD-only then yes, I would consider switching. But with my wife and my HD viewing barely being 40%, I would have a hard time explaining the switch to my wife (yes, I would have to explain it to her :D ).

No, for you it probably wouldn't be worth the switch if you're only a 40% HD viewer. Myself, being at least a 95% HD viewer, I go where the HD is, plus I only have the one display-well, there's actually another HD display, but it doesn't need DVR capability, so I'm only looking at one HD-DVR.

The problem I see with Comcast is, how long will it be before they make any substantial additions? I waited, and waited, for Comcast to add TNT-HD over a year ago, and it still hasn't happened. I finally pulled the trigger on Dish 6-7 mos ago, solely for that channel, and it's paid off in spades. At any given time of the day, there are at least 2-3 things I would watch available from Dish. I cannot say the same for Comcast, in fact, it doesn't even come close.

Regarding the startup costs, I bet if you called them and said you were switching from cable they probably have some pretty good deals. I know with Dish, for just one HD-DVR, the startup cost is zilch after credits.

As far as INHD and HDNet, personal opinion of course, but I don't think INHD can hold a candle to the HDNets, and with FSNBA coming on line with DirecTV and probably soon with Dish the only advantage is gone.

The advantage Comcast has right now is PQ on the local channel, but in the last week or so there have been some makor improvements in Dish's locals so I expect they will be close, if not on par with Comcast quality in the near future, and with HD PQ taking a hit across the board anyway I'm becoming less particular about PQ anyway.

OTOH, "2001" on HDNet this weekend was absolutely stunning, some EE at the beginning, but otherwise I could have been sitting in the Cinerama dome in Hollywood, the quality of the transfer screams for large screens, my 73" barely did it justice. :p

No, for you it probably wouldn't be worth the switch if you're only a 40% HD viewer. Myself, being at least a 95% HD viewer, I go where the HD is, plus I only have the one display-well, there's actually another HD display, but it doesn't need DVR capability, so I'm only looking at one HD-DVR.

Yep, I just went to cable because the tech couldn't get any satellite signal from the DirecTV birds. So, I've gone cable with a 6412 DVR from Comcast. Man I miss HDnet[Movies], and UniversalHD(i.e. BSG). So, looks like as long as my Silver Digital (Digital + 1 Premium), is at the lower price (3-6 months depending on how you order it) I'll wait. But, certainly looking to go back to satellite (I have a firewire-hacked box for D*) when I can figure something out (too many trees).

with FSNBA coming on line with DirecTV and probably soon with Dish the only advantage is gone.

:p


Keenan, how certain are you of FSNBA on DirectTV & Dish and do you have an eta?

Keenan, how certain are you of FSNBA on DirectTV & Dish and do you have an eta?
I'm certain of it on DirecTV as some bay area posters in another thread have already seen a A's game and a Giant's game in the past 3 days and the channel itself is only avaiable to those with the new MPEG4 receiver.

Dish announced they were adding RSNs last month but have yet to give specific dates. The fact that DirecTV just launched about 12-15 RSNs on July 1 lends me to believe Dish will not be too far behind, and when I say that, I'm not talking about a Comcast type time schedule where they launched TNT-HD over a year ago and the SF bay area shouldn't be "too far behind". :D

I'm certain of it on DirecTV as some bay area posters in another thread have already seen a A's game and a Giant's game in the past 3 days and the channel itself is only avaiable to those with the new MPEG4 receiver.

Dish announced they were adding RSNs last month but have yet to give specific dates. The fact that DirecTV just launched about 12-15 RSNs on July 1 lends me to believe Dish will not be too far behind, and when I say that, I'm not talking about a Comcast type time schedule where they launched TNT-HD over a year ago and the SF bay area shouldn't be "too far behind". :D
Keenan,
I just got this response from FSN Bay Area about Directv and the local games in HD.
____________________________________________________________ ______

DirecTV just began taking our HD games but are currently only providing them to the San Francisco Immediate Bay Area. We have no idea if and when Dish will follow
____________________________________________________________ ______

So it looks like it's true that for now D* is showing the local games in HD and from other info that I've received Dish will be following soon.

Laters,
Mikef5

Excellent, that also answers a question I had about the other markets that FSNBA covers.

I have DirecTV, I have them all in fact, but I'm waiting for Dish on FSNBA so I can get rid of DirecTV and Comcast. I'd love to be able to do it by the fall season.

So it looks like it's true that for now D* is showing the local games in HD and from other info that I've received Dish will be following soon.


Will be interesting to see if AT&T will include local HD games once their service is rolled out - could make life tough for Comcast.

My guess would be yes, ATT strikes me as a steamroller, slow to get started but they have the war chest to do and get whatever they want so once they get rolling, it's going to interesting to see how Comcast responds, the satcos already have their game plans working, and they're working well and will only get stronger.

It's definitely a personal choice. In fact, I was just talking to my boss today and she and her husband are thinking of switching to Dish. They live in Fairfax which I believe is a 550Mhz area. Moving to satellite makes perfect sense for them because they want more HD programming. I don't watch TNT at all so not having their HD channel means nothing to me. And while Universal HD was nice when we had it during the winter olympics, I didn't really miss it when it was gone. But probably the biggest thing keeping me from switching is the multi-year contract. Too much is going to be happening over the next 2 years for me to commit to that kind of contract. I've been burned before on cell phone contracts and that's about half of what I pay for CATV.

In regards to what Keenan said about the satcos having the right game plan, I think you're right....for now. Mainstream satellite TV is relatively new in comparison to cable. From the get-go, they were all-digital and subscribers knew that upfront -- i.e. they would need an STB for each TV. It seems that cable's biggest obstacal is getting people to switch from analog to digital. Once cable goes all-digital (or mostly digital), they will have much more available bandwidth to play around with. This, of course, is happening much more slowly then we all would hope for due to the above problem.

We're still in the very early stages of digital television and I would expect the jockeying to continue over the next 2 to 5 years. And with the (hopeful) coming of other alternatives -- i.e. FiOS, TV over copper, IPTV -- things could get really interesting.

But probably the biggest thing keeping me from switching is the multi-year contract. Too much is going to be happening over the next 2 years for me to commit to that kind of contract. I've been burned before on cell phone contracts and that's about half of what I pay for CATV. Fender, you do realize that with Dish you can sign up with no contract, you just have to pay for the install which is about $50 ??? As far as a box on all your tv's, I can power 4 tv's with just 2 boxes and have independent viewing on all of them. You are right the upfront cost is greater than with Comcast but at least you get all of their programing at a lower price than with cable and when they upgrade their programing everyone is upgrade not just a few select people or areas. To give you an example, I can get their top Metal programing and locals for $116, that's with just about everything they offer. With Comcast my bill is $136 and I only get one HD movie channel, INHD1 and 2, local HD which I can get with my antenna, ESPN-HD and Discovery HD, I don't even get ON Demand their flagship product. For me it's a no brainer and for anyone that wants digital or HD content especially anyone in the 550 MHz areas. Comcast has made it clear they are not going to invest in our area so what you have now is what you will have for a long time or until some real competition becomes available.

Laters,
Mikef5

Fender, you do realize that with Dish you can sign up with no contract, you just have to pay for the install which is about $50 ??? As far as a box on all your tv's, I can power 4 tv's with just 2 boxes and have independent viewing on all of them. You are right the upfront cost is greater than with Comcast but at least you get all of their programing at a lower price than with cable and when they upgrade their programing everyone is upgrade not just a few select people or areas. To give you an example, I can get their top Metal programing and locals for $116, that's with just about everything they offer. With Comcast my bill is $136 and I only get one HD movie channel, INHD1 and 2, local HD which I can get with my antenna, ESPN-HD and Discovery HD, I don't even get ON Demand their flagship product. For me it's a no brainer and for anyone that wants digital or HD content especially anyone in the 550 MHz areas. Comcast has made it clear they are not going to invest in our area so what you have now is what you will have for a long time or until some real competition becomes available.

Laters,
Mikef5
I had forgotten about the dual capability of the 622, you can drive one HD display and an analog 4x3 display independently with two separate remotes with the one HD-DVR.

Currently there is an upfront outlay, but after credits, you actually have Dish paying you to sign up. This is for new customers, although when I went from the 942 to the 622 I ended up with over $200 in credits on my bill, haven't needed to pay the bill in two mos, and when the 942 is credited the cost to upgrade will amount to about $100 for the 622 and 5 mos worth of programming, I ain't complainin'... :p

I didn't realize Dish didn't have a contract. My buddy is getting DirecTV installed as I write this and he said he had to sign a 2-year agreement. And like I said...I went through the DirecTV wizard and it was going to cost me $10 more per month. I'll checkout the Dish lineup/packages and see how they compare.

MikeF5, how many HD TV's do you have in your house? If I'm reading Keenan correctly, the 622 receiver can drive 1 HD display and 1 analog display. All 3 TV's in my house are HD-capable and and I need at least 2 DVR's (my wife's and my TV tastes differ drastically). What does Dish charge for their DVR? Is it a rental or purchase? Didn't Keenan say something about NOT being able to record local HD stations (may have been from the Yahoo board). Looks like I have some investigating to do.

Fender,
Here's a couple of links that are sat forums like this one and can answer alot of your questions better than I can, I'm still a newbee on sat's too :)

http://www.dbstalk.com/index.php?
http://www.satelliteguys.us/index.php

These sites have both Directv and Dish areas
I have 2 HD tv's and 2 SD digital tv's

Laters,
Mikef5

I've always wondered how the overall Dish experience (from watching TV, to HD, to outages, to customer service, to DVR use, etc) compares to the Comcast Bay Area experience. I'm especially interested in how the DVR/HD options compare.

Comments?

-=Brazil=-

Fender,
Here's a couple of links that are sat forums like this one and can answer alot of your questions better than I can, I'm still a newbee on sat's too :)

http://www.dbstalk.com/index.php?
http://www.satelliteguys.us/index.php

These sites have both Directv and Dish areas
I have 2 HD tv's and 2 SD digital tv's

Laters,
Mikef5

Thanks for the links, Mike. I went through some of the sticky posts are there was some very good information.

I went to Dish's site and pretty much did the same thing as I did for DirecTV. Getting the DishHD Gold package, HBO, 1 HD-DVR, and 2 additional boxes would run $66.97 for 10 months and then $86.97 after that. The up-front charges would be $249 ($200 for the DVR and $49 for activation since I chose NOT to do the 18 month commitment). What I'm unclear about is a) can I get more then 1 HD-DVR (the "wizard" only let me select 1) and b) are the additional boxes HD tuners. I'm also still unclear if the 622 can record local HD channels.

So far though, this looks pretty appealing...

Thanks for the links, Mike. I went through some of the sticky posts are there was some very good information.

I went to Dish's site and pretty much did the same thing as I did for DirecTV. Getting the DishHD Gold package, HBO, 1 HD-DVR, and 2 additional boxes would run $66.97 for 10 months and then $86.97 after that. The up-front charges would be $249 ($200 for the DVR and $49 for activation since I chose NOT to do the 18 month commitment). What I'm unclear about is a) can I get more then 1 HD-DVR (the "wizard" only let me select 1) and b) are the additional boxes HD tuners. I'm also still unclear if the 622 can record local HD channels.

So far though, this looks pretty appealing...
Yes, the 622 can record local channels. You have to pay $5 a month to get guide data for the locals but it will record without it. In fact, I believe the 622 can record 2 HD sat channels and 1 HD OTA channel all at the same time, although I've never tried as I don't get OTA up here. It seems to me that I read that you can also throw a sat SD recording in the bunch for 4 recordings at a time, but I'm not sure about that.

They do have HD tuner only STBs, the 211 and 411, something like that, a 322 also I think---never really checked into as it was not something I needed.


No clue about the more than one DVR although Dish is bringing out some less expensive HD-DVRs, may already be out--checking with one of those other forums would be where to look as the Dish site is lacking quite a bit on up-to-date info.

Comcast is making this a really easy decision for me. My 3412 locked up again tonight -- that's the 4th time this week and probably the 20th time in last 5 months.

Keenan, MikeF5, what do you think of the Dish DVR? Comparible to Tivo? Better then Comcast?

Keenan, MikeF5, what do you think of the Dish DVR? Comparible to Tivo? Better then Comcast? I can't tell you anything about Tivo and how it compares to Dish DVR or Directv's DVR. I've never owned a Tivo and I'm still waiting for my install for Dish but I do have 2 brothers and one has Dish and the other has Directv and I have played with both receivers. My brother that has Directv is a Tivo unit and the interface and menus are the best I have seen, very simple and easy to use. My brother with the Dish system has a similar receiver but the menu system is not as indepth as the Directv Tivo but is miles ahead of the Comcast menu system. So if you are a Tivo person, Directv is the way to go but Dish is very close and if you look at the different programing available on both, Dish in my opinion has a much better choice and better price for what you are getting. As with all systems there are problems and both have their own unique ones but both of my brothers have never had a problem with their receivers or their dish setup their major concerns are that they want more programing.... don't we all :)
Right now, for me, I'm waiting for the end of baseball season and I'm waiting for the new dish 1000.2 which should be available real soon but if Dish adds FSN-HD Bay Area like Directv just did, I'll get installed that very day and drop Comcast all together.

Laters,
Mikef5

I have all 3, the DirecTV HR10-250 HD-TiVo, Comcast 6412 and the Dish 622.

I was never a TiVo user until I got the HR10-250 and honestly, I don't know what all the hullabaloo is about. The interface is pretty, but beyond that, both the 622 and the 6412 do everything that I need a DVR to do. The TiVo is excruciatingly slow though, I mean really slow when you're setting up recordings. This may be because the TiVo unit goes out 2 weeks whereas the 622 only goes 9 days, but the 6412 goes out at least 2 weeks and it is very fast, so who knows. The 622 is very fast, as fast as the 6412 in fact but it doesn't hiccup and stall as the 6412 is prone to do, and honestly, I like the interface much better than the TiVo. Just scrolling through the guide on the TiVo is a chore, with the 622 and the 6412 it basically zips right through, faster than you can read it.

The 6412 does what it needs to do, it seems the 3412 has some issues maybe, I don't know, we won't see that machine up here for a long time, if ever.

The TiVo does what it needs to do, but it does it soooo slooowly it's aggravating.

The 622 is very fast, easy to use, and of course does what it's supposed to do. Additionally, the 622 is the only one of the three that is set up for external storage as soon as Dish gets around to qualifying some ext HDDs for use. The menu is already in place. Comcast has already stated they will never have external storage for the Moto boxes, and I would tend to think DirecTV won't either.

Another factor that needs to be mentioned, and it's a big one, with DirecTV, if you are choosing them for FSNBA, keep in mind that there currently is no DVR for MPEG4, and that when it does debut, it will not be a TiVo.

The 622 will hold around 30 hrs of HD, I think the MPEG2 TiVo(which is obsolete for any local sat HD channels-doesn't receive them) holds roughly the same, and the 6412 is about 15 hrs IIRC.

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll shut up now as this is obviously a Comcast forum. :D

Thanks for the info, guys. I'll shut up now as this is obviously a Comcast forum. :D
Yeah. :p

In fact, the below thread has been around for about 6 mos,

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=615354&page=8&pp=30
San Francisco, CA - DBS - AVS Forum

For me it costs $6.95 per month for Digital Additional Outlet (charged when you get a second STB or DRV) plus $9.95 for a DVR (HDTV Service included) or $5 for the HDTV Additional Service if using a STB.

So the following is the cost for a second box with HDTV included.

DVR $16.90 plus taxes
STB $11.95 plus taxes

07/03 - 08/02 Digital Classic Package 9.95
Includes: Digital Classic, Music Choice, Digital Converter and Remote, If Applicable.
07/03 - 08/02 Standard Cable 48.25
Includes: Limited Basic and Expanded Basic Service
07/03 - 08/02 DVR Service With HDTV 9.95
07/03 - 08/02 HDTV Additional Service 5.00
07/03 - 08/02 Mnthly Serv Protect Plan 2.95
07/03 - 08/02 Digital Addl Outlet 6.95
Includes: Digital Converter and Remote, If Applicable.

$83.05 + $7.45 tax = $90.50/mo. That's for 1 HD box (6200) and 1 HD-DVR (6/3412)

They finally offered Comcast HD in my area (literally just last week) and am just happy to finally get HD up and running. I live in a apartment complex, with limited access to a signal on my balcony, so I didnt really have a choice.

FSNBAY in HD is amazing. Having a HD DVR eliminates the need for a couple of additional HD channels IMO, as you always have HD content at your finger tips.

I would like to see this HDnet channel that everyone is raving about though :)

Thanks for the links, Mike. I went through some of the sticky posts are there was some very good information.

I went to Dish's site and pretty much did the same thing as I did for DirecTV. Getting the DishHD Gold package, HBO, 1 HD-DVR, and 2 additional boxes would run $66.97 for 10 months and then $86.97 after that. The up-front charges would be $249 ($200 for the DVR and $49 for activation since I chose NOT to do the 18 month commitment). What I'm unclear about is a) can I get more then 1 HD-DVR (the "wizard" only let me select 1) and b) are the additional boxes HD tuners. I'm also still unclear if the 622 can record local HD channels.

So far though, this looks pretty appealing...
According to the contract agreement if you don't commit to 18 months then you don't get a 30 day money back guarantee. BTW I signed up for Dish. My 550mhz Comcast is probably going bye bye. FSN-BA HD was THE clincher. I figure it will be at least 18 months till someone "possibly" beats Dish. PS I can cancel my "HDs only" Directv because Dish has these and more.

They finally offered Comcast HD in my area (literally just last week) and am just happy to finally get HD up and running. I live in a apartment complex, with limited access to a signal on my balcony, so I didnt really have a choice.

FSNBAY in HD is amazing. Having a HD DVR eliminates the need for a couple of additional HD channels IMO, as you always have HD content at your finger tips.

I would like to see this HDnet channel that everyone is raving about though :)

Welcome to the group! I'm curious...what city/area do you live in?

According to the contract agreement if you don't commit to 18 months then you don't get a 30 day money back guarantee. BTW I signed up for Dish. My 550mhz Comcast is probably going bye bye. FSN-BA HD was THE clincher. I figure it will be at least 18 months till someone "possibly" beats Dish. PS I can cancel my HDs only Directv because Dish has these and more.

I didn't realize there was even a 30 day guarantee. And I thought FSNHD was just added to DirecTV...was it added to Dish as well?

I didn't realize there was even a 30 day guarantee. And I thought FSNHD was just added to DirecTV...was it added to Dish as well?
No, not at the present time.

Dish came out with the 30 day guarantee and DirecTV followed suit about a month later.

No, not at the present time.

That's what I thought. I couldn't tell by Bill's post if he was talking about FSN-HD through Dish or DirecTV.

I couldn't either, it looked like he had two thoughts going on and they got intertwined when he wrote it. :)

FSN-BA HD is coming to Dish shortly. The Dish rep told me and it is posted in this forum.

FSN-BA HD is coming to Dish shortly. The Dish rep told me and it is posted in this forum.

Do you have a link to the post?

Boy, I sure hope that's true, and "shortly" means like 2 hrs from now. :D

It would be nice to get it before the season ends though.

Do you have a link to the post?
I don't remember where on this forum but here is one this forum is linked to http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=59594&highlight=fsn+hd
I think Directv's roll out is going to speed up Dish's.
I can see all the 550mhz Comcast subscribers abandoning ship as I type. Then there is Dish's better DVR but I digress. After all this, Dish's picture quality better be about the same as Comcast's or all bets are off. I'll know this Tuesday.

i for one am happy comcast is losing its exclusivity on FSNBA-HD even though i could never switch to dish or d*. i figure this can only drive up local demand for HD and pin the three competitors directly against each other.

I have all 3, the DirecTV HR10-250 HD-TiVo, Comcast 6412 and the Dish 622.

I was never a TiVo user until I got the HR10-250 and honestly, I don't know what all the hullabaloo is about. The interface is pretty, but beyond that, both the 622 and the 6412 do everything that I need a DVR to do.
I'm a replaytv user but I've heard enough about TiVo to have some idea what those folks are looking for. The advantage of TiVo comes *after* you have scheduled the show. It manages conflicts much better and finds alternate viewing dates for the episode. It will not record episodes you have already recorded. They base everything around the "show" concept rather than the time slot concept. You choose which show to record and TiVo abstracts everything and figures out how best to get that show recorded. That's the theory anyway.

If you record and watch your stuff weekly most any PVR will handle it fine. If you are in the habbit of recording seasons and watching them in sequence, the more advanced PVRs have the advantage.

I'm a replaytv user but I've heard enough about TiVo to have some idea what those folks are looking for. The advantage of TiVo comes *after* you have scheduled the show. It manages conflicts much better and finds alternate viewing dates for the episode. It will not record episodes you have already recorded. They base everything around the "show" concept rather than the time slot concept. You choose which show to record and TiVo abstracts everything and figures out how best to get that show recorded. That's the theory anyway.

If you record and watch your stuff weekly most any PVR will handle it fine. If you are in the habbit of recording seasons and watching them in sequence, the more advanced PVRs have the advantage.

I've used both Tivo and ReplayTV in the past and I agree...Tivo wins hands down in regards to season passes. After that, there really isn't that much difference between
Tivo and other DVR's. They do have WishList which I know some people use although I never did. I think out of all the DVR's, Replay was my favorite for 2 very big reasons: CommercialAdvance and DVArchive.

oh yes, the Replay is, or should I saw was :( a great DVR...nice interface and Commercial Advance and DVArchive are awesome (sadly we'll never see them on another DVR)

ps..for those that dont know...CAdvance was a feature that let the replay automatically skip over commercials during playback (the user didnt have to do a thing, the Replay just sensed the frame change and skipped over the commercials in about 1/4 second)...DVArchive allowed you to network your Replay with your PC or MAC and drag/drop movies over to your pc..it was great for taking shows on my laptop to watch or while traveling or archiving them to another harddrive.

Here's an interesting forum that deals with AT&T's Lightspeed
http://www.uverseusers.com/

Now you can hear what real users are saying about Lightspeed ( U-Verse ) and what is good and what is bad with it. Seems to be coming along faster than I thought it would. They are talking about whole house distribution, something that was promised by cable along time ago. If I were Comcast I'd be a little concerned... ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

I'm a replaytv user but I've heard enough about TiVo to have some idea what those folks are looking for. The advantage of TiVo comes *after* you have scheduled the show. It manages conflicts much better and finds alternate viewing dates for the episode. It will not record episodes you have already recorded. They base everything around the "show" concept rather than the time slot concept. You choose which show to record and TiVo abstracts everything and figures out how best to get that show recorded. That's the theory anyway.

If you record and watch your stuff weekly most any PVR will handle it fine. If you are in the habbit of recording seasons and watching them in sequence, the more advanced PVRs have the advantage.
Look like DirecTV is finally sending Ver 6.3 to the HR10-250. I guess this is the one that has folders and all that stuff that SD TiVo users love, plus it's supposed to speed up menus, something that drives me nuts.

http://directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P3200006
DIRECTV DVR 6.3 Software Upgrade

oh yes, the Replay is, or should I saw was :( a great DVR...nice interface and Commercial Advance and DVArchive are awesome (sadly we'll never see them on another DVR)

ps..for those that dont know...CAdvance was a feature that let the replay automatically skip over commercials during playback (the user didnt have to do a thing, the Replay just sensed the frame change and skipped over the commercials in about 1/4 second)...DVArchive allowed you to network your Replay with your PC or MAC and drag/drop movies over to your pc..it was great for taking shows on my laptop to watch or while traveling or archiving them to another harddrive.

The other thing I miss about the replay is the easy ability to fast forward and rewind. Just punch in 60, hit skip and it goes 60 minutes into the recorded show. It drives me crazy that I have to sit and wait for the comcast DVR to fast forward.

I suspect that sometime this week (July 4-7) Comcast updated the software on my DCT-6200 to version 8.14. This seems to have broken the Firewire recording that I've been playing around with (I'm using a Mac Mini), but also caused serious problems with the STB. The box has been freezing and restarting, sometimes as often as every few minutes.

I think I fixed the problem (time will tell) be disconnecting the Firewire temporarily. I think I can still cause problems by restarting the Mac, and trying to reestablish the Firewire connection.

I'm about to call Comcast to see if they can tell me when the update happened. However, it would be nice to hear from others what experience they have had:
+ when did the update occur? was there one in the last week?
+ are you using Firewire to record to a PC/Mac? Does it still work?

Thanks for the information.

I want to take my comcast DVR to work and play my HD material in my office, but when I take the DVR to work (where I don't have comcast cable), the DVR is not functional. Did comcast disable even the DVR play ability when it it not plugged into cable??

yes

From the web version of the CC Times:

"Comcast launches triple package in Bay Area
Telecommunications provider Comcast Corp. today announced that it has introduced a three-product bundle in the Bay Area, offering its digital cable television, phone and Internet products for $33 each for 12 months when customers subscribe to all three.

The offering represents consumer savings of more than $350 per year and allows for one bill, one customer service point of contact, and one installation visit to the home, the company said in a release.

More than 90 percent of Comcast's Bay Area cable systems began offering the bundle today with upcoming launches planned for Monterey, Santa Cruz, Walnut Creek, Pittsburg, Antioch, Bay Point and Castro Valley.

In markets that have offered the bundle for 30 days or more, nearly one out of four new customers are taking all three service offerings, and more than half of Digital Cable customers now have at least two Comcast services, the company said.

This expected high-volume of bundled sales has led Comcast in the Bay Area to add staff during the past few months, and Comcast is still hiring, with more than 500 positions currently open for technicians, direct sales and customer service agents."

Called Cocmast. Turns out that this is only for new subscribers- us old customers don't get anything for multiple subscriptions. Well, not entirely true- as I am a Comcast phone customer using non-IP service, I can get the digital IP based service for $33/month, a savings of $6/month.

Certainly they need to keep on hiring.

More than 90 percent of Comcast's Bay Area cable systems began offering the bundle today with upcoming launches planned for Monterey, Santa Cruz, Walnut Creek, Pittsburg, Antioch, Bay Point and Castro Valley.

I believe all of the areas listed are 550MHz areas. Does this mean they plan on building these out?

Thanks, I am in the East Bay. Walnut Creek to be exact :)
Welcome to the group! I'm curious...what city/area do you live in?

Thanks, I am in the East Bay. Walnut Creek to be exact :)

Ahhh!!! Well congratulations on finally getting HD!! The residents of WC truly did get screwed by their city and I'm glad there is finally some resolution to it. Have fun!

I believe all of the areas listed are 550MHz areas. Does this mean they plan on building these out?
Notice what city is missing from the ones mentioned..? :p :D

It probably just means even longer before those areas get any more HD since they've already said they're not going to upgrade those areas.

BTW, not sure who asked, but the DirecTV RSN press release says NBA and NHL included in games carried.

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=127160&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=880397&highlight=
DirecTV - Investor Relations - News Release

Called Comcast. Turns out that this is only for new subscribers- us old customers don't get anything for multiple subscriptions. Well, not entirely true- as I am a Comcast phone customer using non-IP service, I can get the digital IP based service for $33/month, a savings of $6/month.

Certainly they need to keep on hiring.

That's odd. In an article in the Merc it said:

"Our summer triple-pack bundle is designed to win new customers and reinforce to existing customers that we understand their desire to stay connected, with high-quality but high-value services,'' said Tyler Wallis, assistant vice president of AT&T's consumer division."

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/business/15004603.htm

Anyone else having problems with channel 705 ?? I have massive pixellation and no sound. I know that Sutro is being worked on and that all OTA signals are gone but Comcast doesn't get it's feed from Sutro.

Laters,
Mikef5

Anyone else having problems with channel 705 ?? I have massive pixellation and no sound. I know that Sutro is being worked on and that all OTA signals are gone but Comcast doesn't get it's feed from Sutro.

Laters,
Mikef5
On my QAM tuner it comes in fine.

Anyone else having problems with channel 705 ?? I have massive pixellation and no sound. I know that Sutro is being worked on and that all OTA signals are gone but Comcast doesn't get it's feed from Sutro.

Laters,
Mikef5

At 10AM, Bob Barker is coming in fine, video and audio in Rohnert Park on a 6412 III. It was out yesterday for about 1/2 hour in the afternnon and then it came back in.

On my QAM tuner it comes in fine.
I just tried my QAM tuner and I still have the same problem. SFHUB, where are you located at ?? This might be an area specific problem, but that's hard to believe since it's only this one channel that has this problem. Thanks for your response. Anyone in the SaraMilGatos area having this problem ???

Laters,
Mikef5

I'm in 860-land so not the same area as you, but it sounds like from the replies, it isn't a problem with the Comcast feed area wide and is probably more isolated a problem.

At 10AM, Bob Barker is coming in fine, video and audio in Rohnert Park on a 6412 III. It was out yesterday for about 1/2 hour in the afternnon and then it came back in.
Well, Guess what ??? It's now working fine but it was out for most of the morning, old lady actually had to watch the analog channel... :p
I noticed at a little past midnight last night that we lost all channels including my direct cable connection on my tv, so nothing was coming down the line from Comcast. I figured they were working on the system so it was no big deal because it was up again this morning except for the channel 705 problem. Anyway, thanks for the input. I now return to regularly scheduled programing....

Laters,
Mikef5

Is anybody else getting extra premium channels? We now get SHO, Starz when before we only got HBO and Encore. (Hope I am not getting charged). The only thing that has changed is a couple of weeks ago we swapped a 6412 P1 for a 6412 P3.

when i first got my dvr i had access to all the premium HD channels too. they went away after a while. i hope you aren't complaining :)

Thanks! Yeah I bitched to the city and comcast a couple of YEARS ago then finally gave up thinking it was a lost cause. One day a flier showed up in the mail saying they were going to offer it in my area starting in a month. I immediately went out and bought a new TV :D

Now I just need to get my OnDemand working. It keeps saying 'click ok to activate service' then once I click ok it says 'this service will be available shortly' (or something like that), but when I come back to the channel it asks me to activate it again and it never works :( Ahhh!!! Well congratulations on finally getting HD!! The residents of WC truly did get screwed by their city and I'm glad there is finally some resolution to it. Have fun!

I wish that would have happened to me!when i first got my dvr i had access to all the premium HD channels too. they went away after a while. i hope you aren't complaining :)

Now I just need to get my OnDemand working. It keeps saying 'click ok to activate service' then once I click ok it says 'this service will be available shortly' (or something like that), but when I come back to the channel it asks me to activate it again and it never works :(

Could be bandwidth issues (or it may not be ready yet in WC). Do you have any splitters in your setup? Try to eliminate potential interference by going directly from the wall into the box.

Now I just need to get my OnDemand working. It keeps saying 'click ok to activate service' then once I click ok it says 'this service will be available shortly' (or something like that), but when I come back to the channel it asks me to activate it again and it never works :(
On demand will not work if you have bad wiring in the house. Check the OBB and inband status (SNR & AGC) of the cable box to make sure they indicate Good. To check the status perform the following.


Power of the cable box.
Within 2 seconds press Select.
The diagnostic menu should appear.
Down arrow to item 3 &4 and right arrow to show status.


Even if they show good there still could be a problem. If you have a long coax cable, then run it from the cable connection on the house to the cable box. If that works, then it is Comcasts problem.

so yeah comcast will be adding MHD on aug 1st in cities where bandwidth is available according to the programming thread. think we're on the list? MHD doesn't have the programming crap that MTV does (yet) so it might be something worth having. hear the PQ is really good too.

just adding fuel to rumors! some markets are reporting that INHD2 will be going dark on aug 1st. think aug 1st will be a big day? wow i can totally see them taking away an HD channel and not adding one instead.

Hmmm, yes actually I do have a 3-way splitter. (Main TV, Modem, 2nd TV)

I will try removing the splitter, and plugging in the modem/2nd TV to another wall, to see if this resolves the problem.

Thanks!
Could be bandwidth issues (or it may not be ready yet in WC). Do you have any splitters in your setup? Try to eliminate potential interference by going directly from the wall into the box.

Thanks for the info.

I will check out the status tonight before, and after, messing around with the splitter :)
On demand will not work if you have bad wiring in the house. Check the OBB and inband status (SNR & AGC) of the cable box to make sure they indicate Good. To check the status perform the following.


Power of the cable box.
Within 2 seconds press Select.
The diagnostic menu should appear.
Down arrow to item 3 &4 and right arrow to show status.


Even if they show good there still could be a problem. If you have a long coax cable, then run it from the cable connection on the house to the cable box. If that works, then it is Comcasts problem.

Thanks for the info.

I will check out the status tonight before, and after, messing around with the splitter :)

You also want to make sure that splitter goes to 2150mhz and is bidirectional.

Bobby--

Why on earth should he care if the splitter goes beyond 2-GHz when the cable is at most 860 MHz? 2-gig splitters are for satellite hook-ups and generally have more insertion losses than 1-gig (cable) types.

Bobby--

Why on earth should he care if the splitter goes beyond 2-GHz when the cable is at most 860 MHz? 2-gig splitters are for satellite hook-ups and generally have more insertion losses than 1-gig (cable) types.

Whoops, yes you are right. I meant 1000, not 2150. Many older splitters only went to 300 or so and they won't allow the whole digital band through. The bidirectional part is most important.

Anyone ever get the firewire to work out of a 6412 v3 or any STB?
If you do what channels can you record in HD? I know HBO is probably out but I would love to know which ones work besides the standard OTA ones. Please note which box you have, where you live city is fine, and what channels. Thanks in advance.

Yes, on a 3412. The drivers were a bitch and a half to install, but it works.

What doesn't have 5c? Not much.

On the local channels (702-709), local news, Jay Leno, crap like that.
Some primetime dramas. I managed to grab a bit of "24" when I was testing.
ABC's World of Disney (Toy Story, Bug's Life etc)? Nope, it's got 5c. :(
For some reason 705 won't record at all, ever... even though it says it doesn' t have 5c. Channel 05 will record, but 705 won't... I dunno wtf.

INHD1/2 is fulltime 5c
DiscoveryHD, same.
HBO I would assume, but I don't have HBO any more.

I've recorded a lot more SD than HD since I got it all setup. In fact I don't have a single thing in HD on the PC... Mostly it's all Cartoon Network's Adult Swim shows.

Yes, on a 3412. The drivers were a bitch and a half to install, but it works.

What doesn't have 5c? Not much.

On the local channels (702-709), local news, Jay Leno, crap like that.
Some primetime dramas. I managed to grab a bit of "24" when I was testing.
ABC's World of Disney (Toy Story, Bug's Life etc)? Nope, it's got 5c. :(
For some reason 705 won't record at all, ever... even though it says it doesn' t have 5c. Channel 05 will record, but 705 won't... I dunno wtf.

INHD1/2 is fulltime 5c
DiscoveryHD, same.
HBO I would assume, but I don't have HBO any more.

I've recorded a lot more SD than HD since I got it all setup. In fact I don't have a single thing in HD on the PC... Mostly it's all Cartoon Network's Adult Swim shows.
On my cable box, channel 705 has the CCI set to 02 all the time.

Well here is my report on switch from Comcast to Dish in a 550mhz area. Dish blows Comcast away,way more HD channels and at least as good of picture quality. Plus all the SD/analog channels are better. The DVR is also better in a many ways. Only hicup so far is not enough signal strength for a few of the HD channels. A tech is coming out Friday. I know Comcast doesn't care about the small minority like myself but thank goodness someone does. The numbers are growing and Dish will get them. Thanks Dish. PS, looking forward to watching the Sharks in HD.

Can anyone in the city (San Francisco) confirm that one is able to receive non-encrypted HD channels from Comcast using an onboard QAM tuner (e.g., Sharp LC32D50U, MyHD MDP-130, etc) ... that is, without a STB?

The Comcast reps have been pretty useless in confirming/denying this ... I've a client who wants to be able to connect a TV directly to the incoming cable feed and receive HD channels; before I spec a QAM-only set for the room, I was hoping to confirm that it'd actually work ;)

Yes, on a 3412. The drivers were a bitch and a half to install, but it works.

What doesn't have 5c? Not much.

On the local channels (702-709), local news, Jay Leno, crap like that.
Some primetime dramas. I managed to grab a bit of "24" when I was testing.
ABC's World of Disney (Toy Story, Bug's Life etc)? Nope, it's got 5c. :(
For some reason 705 won't record at all, ever... even though it says it doesn' t have 5c. Channel 05 will record, but 705 won't... I dunno wtf.

INHD1/2 is fulltime 5c
DiscoveryHD, same.
HBO I would assume, but I don't have HBO any more.

I've recorded a lot more SD than HD since I got it all setup. In fact I don't have a single thing in HD on the PC... Mostly it's all Cartoon Network's Adult Swim shows.


Thanks Walk.
So no Discovery HD?
How about ESPN HD?

If those two are a no go then there's no point for me to go from QAM without STB to STB + firewire.

Can anyone in the city (San Francisco) confirm that one is able to receive non-encrypted HD channels from Comcast using an onboard QAM tuner (e.g., Sharp LC32D50U, MyHD MDP-130, etc) ... that is, without a STB?

The Comcast reps have been pretty useless in confirming/denying this ... I've a client who wants to be able to connect a TV directly to the incoming cable feed and receive HD channels; before I spec a QAM-only set for the room, I was hoping to confirm that it'd actually work ;)


QAM in sunnyvale with Fushion USB + PC and a nice ASUS PW201 works!
I get all the OTA broadcast channels that Comcast carries:
(2) FOX
(2) NBC
(5) CBS
(7) ABC
and PBS dunno the normal numbers.

I record a lot of HD content. Mostly sitcooms like Lost, Desperate Housewives (for the GF I swear!), The Unit and World Cup in HD!

The only reason I go this route is b/c I can't get line of site to the HD antenna (Sutros Towers) from my apartment in Sunnyvale.

Thanks Walk.
So no Discovery HD?
How about ESPN HD?

If those two are a no go then there's no point for me to go from QAM without STB to STB + firewire.
I checked all encrypted channels with my STB including all 4 movie channels, ESPN HD, ESPN2 HD, Discovery HD, INHD, and INHD2 plus the non encrypted CBS and they all have the the CCI set to 2 which I think is Copy Once which would require a DVHS recorder to perform the security habdshake.

I have Comcast digital service in Sonoma County. When I upgraded to a Sony HD LCD, I wanted a cable card to get the broadcast HD channels. Comcast installed the cable card and charged me $5.95/month for bare-bones digital service. It was worth it to watch 24 and CSI in HD with 5.1 sound.

Just this week, I finally convinced my wife to trade our VCR for a Comcast DVR. They supplied me with the dual-tuner, Motorola 6412, which can record 60 hrs std or 15 hrs HD, for $10/month. They made me take the Digital Classic package, which lists for $58/month on their website, but I got it for $10/month.

So, I traded in my $6/month cable card and I got a HD DVR and 40 more channels for $20/month. Not bad. Comcast is pulling the same trick they did when I got the cable card: I can get many more stations than what I'm paying for right now, but that will only last for about a week. I'm sure they want me back in to expand my service later. I'm only ready to add Speed, though.

How did you get it for so cheap? Is it an introductory pricing? I'd love to get the DVR for $20 a month.

I believe,
5c=0 is no 5c
5c=1 is "copy once"
5c=2 is "copy never"

With either "once" or "never", you need a DVHS, it won't record on the computer. The only way it will record is if 5c=0 (ie none).

ESPN1/2 is fulltime 5c (don't know which one but it doesn't matter) sorry I forgot to mention that.

Also if you just want the unencrypted (ie. OTA) channels you don't need a CableCard at all. Just a QAM tuner. You only need a Cablecard if you want to watch the subscription services, ESPN, HBO, etc.. and INHD1/2.

I have Comcast digital service in Sonoma County. When I upgraded to a Sony HD LCD, I wanted a cable card to get the broadcast HD channels. Comcast installed the cable card and charged me $5.95/month for bare-bones digital service. It was worth it to watch 24 and CSI in HD with 5.1 sound.

Just this week, I finally convinced my wife to trade our VCR for a Comcast DVR. They supplied me with the dual-tuner, Motorola 6412, which can record 60 hrs std or 15 hrs HD, for $10/month. They made me take the Digital Classic package, which lists for $58/month on their website, but I got it for $10/month.

So, I traded in my $6/month cable card and I got a HD DVR and 40 more channels for $20/month. Not bad. Comcast is pulling the same trick they did when I got the cable card: I can get many more stations than what I'm paying for right now, but that will only last for about a week. I'm sure they want me back in to expand my service later. I'm only ready to add Speed, though.

that's exactly what i did too, i loved cable card, but without a damn guide or DVR or ondemand, it just wasn't useful. I traded the card @ 6.95 per month for a dvr for 10 per month and couldn't be happier, they even took off the $5 charge for HDTV i originally had with cable card so I think it actually came out cheaper.

and BY THE WAY, local channels are unencrypted so you didn't even need to have a cable card to watch them!! i actually had a digital silver package so it was worth it for me to just type in 720 from my sony remote to watch a giants game.

I believe,
5c=0 is no 5c
5c=1 is "copy once"
5c=2 is "copy never"

With either "once" or "never", you need a DVHS, it won't record on the computer. The only way it will record is if 5c=0 (ie none).

ESPN1/2 is fulltime 5c (don't know which one but it doesn't matter) sorry I forgot to mention that.

Also if you just want the unencrypted (ie. OTA) channels you don't need a CableCard at all. Just a QAM tuner. You only need a Cablecard if you want to watch the subscription services, ESPN, HBO, etc.. and INHD1/2.

I just checked 3 channels here and got the following:

HBO-HD: 1
Discovery-HD: 1
FOX-SD: 0

Also, I thought there were tuner cards out there that ignored the broadcast flag. I remember last summer there was a huge push of people buying these cards before the (then) July 1 deadline for all tuners to recognize the flag.

"Broadcast flag" does not equal "5c". The former (which applies to OTA transmissions) is not in use, while the latter (which applies to firewire) definitely is. Firewire 5c copy protection cannot be "ignored" by a receiving device because the transmission is encrypted and the sender won't exchange the key with the receiver unless it does the proper handshake, implying compliance with the protection designated for the content. There are (and likely will be) no PC devices that comply with 5c requirements.

"Broadcast flag" does not equal "5c". The former (which applies to OTA transmissions) is not in use, while the latter (which applies to firewire) definitely is. Firewire 5c copy protection cannot be "ignored" by a receiving device because the transmission is encrypted and the sender won't exchange the key with the receiver unless it does the proper handshake, implying compliance with the protection designated for the content. There are (and likely will be) no PC devices that comply with 5c requirements.

You're right...I got the broadcast flag and DTCP mixed up. Although I find it hard to believe that there will never be 5c-compliant PC devices. Computer makers are making a big push for HTPC over the coming years -- especially with the release of Vista and its compatibility with CableCARD. While you may not be able to buy a compliant tuner off the shelf, I would expect PC manufacturers to have the ability to go through the same "compliance test" like they'll do with CableLabs. If not then the whole idea of an HTPC is moot as more and more people get their programming from cable/satcos.

so yeah comcast will be adding MHD on aug 1st in cities where bandwidth is available according to the programming thread. think we're on the list? MHD doesn't have the programming crap that MTV does (yet) so it might be something worth having. hear the PQ is really good too.

I would not mind MHD either, it is not on Dish or DirectTV yet. It may stop me from dumping Comcast.

I doubt we will get it on Aug 1st. If it is anything like TNT-HD we will be much much later. It is not ESPN2-HD afterall. It does not generate the same league of revenue.

Anybody have an up to date list of what classes of stations are 5c protected by comcast in Northern CA? Perhaps also a list of what is "supposed" to be 5c protected (since that may be different?) From other posts, it seems that 5c protection goes off&on on a per show basis so that you can't even tell whether or not you can plan a recording successfully. Also I see lots of folks on avsforum who talk about digital recording of premium content from cable such as HBO - by normal means - no 5c defeating required. That surprises me. Are those comcast users just lucky that their cable provider has neglected to set the 5c flag? Presumably HBO wants the flag set.

Anybody have an up to date list of what classes of stations are 5c protected by comcast in Northern CA? Perhaps also a list of what is "supposed" to be 5c protected (since that may be different?) From other posts, it seems that 5c protection goes off&on on a per show basis so that you can't even tell whether or not you can plan a recording successfully. Also I see lots of folks on avsforum who talk about digital recording of premium content from cable such as HBO - by normal means - no 5c defeating required. That surprises me. Are those comcast users just lucky that their cable provider has neglected to set the 5c flag? Presumably HBO wants the flag set.

wow you only had to scroll up 10 posts to see the list.

Isn't a DVHS deck "normal means"? ;)

I have Comcast digital service in Sonoma County. When I upgraded to a Sony HD LCD, I wanted a cable card to get the broadcast HD channels. Comcast installed the cable card and charged me $5.95/month for bare-bones digital service. It was worth it to watch 24 and CSI in HD with 5.1 sound.

Just this week, I finally convinced my wife to trade our VCR for a Comcast DVR. They supplied me with the dual-tuner, Motorola 6412, which can record 60 hrs std or 15 hrs HD, for $10/month. They made me take the Digital Classic package, which lists for $58/month on their website, but I got it for $10/month.

So, I traded in my $6/month cable card and I got a HD DVR and 40 more channels for $20/month. Not bad. Comcast is pulling the same trick they did when I got the cable card: I can get many more stations than what I'm paying for right now, but that will only last for about a week. I'm sure they want me back in to expand my service later. I'm only ready to add Speed, though.
Comcast pricing is quite confusing. Basic Digital Service already includes the price for a cable box and the digital connection. When you changed to a cable card, you were charged $5.95 for the HD service. When you upgraded to the DVR, you only paid $4.00 instead of $9.95 for the DVR since the $9.95 has the HD service included. Currently I have an extra STB in my bedroom and am already paying for the additional digital service and HD so if I change that in for a DVR it will only cost $4.00 but I never record anything there so it isn't worth the $4.00.

wow you only had to scroll up 10 posts to see the list.The reason why I posted right now is I saw the above discussion that does not provide a complete list. For example I wonder if I would be able to record HD locals and HD nationals such as national geographic and hdnet. Please don't reply if you aren't interested in being helpful.

Isn't a DVHS deck "normal means"? ;)Yes a DVHS would be "normal means", if somewhat antiquated. I don't have a DVHS deck, and am interested in keeping digital recordings for longer than they would fit on a dct6412's disk.

The reason why I posted right now is I saw the above discussion that does not provide a complete list. For example I wonder if I would be able to record HD locals and HD nationals such as national geographic and hdnet. Please don't reply if you aren't interested in being helpful.

your making silly assumptions about what we have here. i was helpful, that list, exactly 10 posts above your original post is the complete list of encrypted channels. don't come into a comcast forum and assume we have the said channels.

but if you really need me to spell it out for you, on comcast in the bay area the following channels are in the clear:

FOX, MYNETWORKTV, NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS

the following are encrypted and you cannot record w/o a 5c compliant device or whatever:

INHD INHD2 DISCOVERY ESPN ESPN2 HBO STARZ MAX SHOWTIME

if i didn't list a channel, that means we don't have it here.

i mean he talks as if comcast offered E* channels.

your making silly assumptions about what we have here. i was helpful, that list, exactly 10 posts above your original post is the complete list of encrypted channels. don't come into a comcast forum and assume we have the said channels.

but if you really need me to spell it out for you, on comcast in the bay area the following channels are in the clear:

FOX, MYNETWORKTV, NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS

the following are encrypted and you cannot record w/o a 5c compliant device or whatever:

INHD INHD2 DISCOVERY ESPN ESPN2 HBO STARZ MAX SHOWTIME

if i didn't list a channel, that means we don't have it here.

As for MyNetworkTV, I could get ESPN2HD for a while--at least I could get the World Cup repeats, but, just checked and didn't get anything useful. Need to do some recordings to my DVHS deck and see what comes through clean to my Mac on captures.
I'd be happy just to upgrade my hard drive on my 6412, and then I wouldn't need to fiddle with firewire--at least for general recording.

i mean he talks as if comcast offered E* channels.s/hdnet/inhd/ in my previous post. I'm not yet a comcast user so it's understandable that I don't rattle off your specific channel list by memory.

your making silly assumptions about what we have here. i was helpful, that list, exactly 10 posts above your original post is the complete list of encrypted channels. don't come into a comcast forum and assume we have the said channels.

but if you really need me to spell it out for you, on comcast in the bay area the following channels are in the clear:

FOX, MYNETWORKTV, NBC, CBS, ABC, PBS

the following are encrypted and you cannot record w/o a 5c compliant device or whatever:

INHD INHD2 DISCOVERY ESPN ESPN2 HBO STARZ MAX SHOWTIME

if i didn't list a channel, that means we don't have it here.So you don't have national geographic HD, even tho national geographic's web page says "The National Geographic Channel is available in your area on channel 273 through Comcast."?

So you don't have national geographic HD, even tho national geographic's web page says "The National Geographic Channel is available in your area on channel 273 through Comcast."?

There's a difference between NGC and NGC-HD.

your making silly assumptions about what we have here. i was helpful, that list
Actually you're being fairly rude and not particularly helpful.
Also that "list" you keep referring to only mentions OTA channels.

There's a difference between NGC and NGC-HD.Doh. I missed that their web page was making that distinction. It was the answer the page gave to the "Check to see if NGC in HD is available in your area" link....

Actually you're being fairly rude and not particularly helpful.
Also that "list" you keep referring to only mentions OTA channels.

in fact, OTA channels are the only HD channels you can record without worrying about 5c, which is my entire point.

So is the rca2160 the preferred firewire HD stb to record 5c enabled content to if one doesn't want to use DVHS? I wouldn't want to go out and buy DVHS tapes with hard disks running about $0.33/GB.

Well the Dish tech returned today, adjusted the dish and all channels are coming in. Goodbye Comcast.

in fact, OTA channels are the only HD channels you can record without worrying about 5c, which is my entire point.

Not exactly "without worrying" - more like "hope to have a chance in hell of recording". The local OTA channels do use 5c on certain programs.

He asked for a list of what channels are not 5c'ed, but there is no such list, since it doesn't go by channel. There are certain channels that SEEM to be permanently flagged, and some that are only sometimes flagged... We can only provide a (rather short) list of what shows on which channels that we've been able to record in the past - but even that could change...

Keep in mind I'm talking about recording via firewire from a STB to a PC, NOT recording directly from the cable outlet using a PC-tuner card. Using a tuner card you will (should..) be able to record anything that isn't encrypted (NOT 5c firewire encryption, another type of cable encryption!) by the cableco. Which at this time, on most Comcast systems in this market, is only the local OTA stations (which I believe are mandated by the FCC not to be encrypted).

Unless or until they start making CableCard-capable tuner setups for the PC. As someone put it rather well I think "that will happen when and IF Microsoft wants it to happen".

As for people that record HBO-HD (assume you mean HD as there are plenty of cheap PCI capture cards that will record any standard-def analog NTSC signal, S-Video etc...) they are doing it one of two ways that I know of.. 1) via firewire with a hacked STB so 5c is defeated, or 2) they live in an area/cable system that hasn't implemented 5c yet - the Bay Area not being one of them. Because the only alternative is with very expensive professional-level component (analog) capture cards.

Not exactly "without worrying" - more like "hope to have a chance in hell of recording". The local OTA channels do use 5c on certain programs.

He asked for a list of what channels are not 5c'ed, but there is no such list, since it doesn't go by channel. There are certain channels that SEEM to be permanently flagged, and some that are only sometimes flagged... We can only provide a (rather short) list of what shows on which channels that we've been able to record in the past - but even that could change...

Keep in mind I'm talking about recording via firewire from a STB to a PC, NOT recording directly from the cable outlet using a PC-tuner card. Using a tuner card you will (should..) be able to record anything that isn't encrypted (NOT 5c firewire encryption, another type of cable encryption!) by the cableco. Which at this time, on most Comcast systems in this market, is only the local OTA stations (which I believe are mandated by the FCC not to be encrypted).

Unless or until they start making CableCard-capable tuner setups for the PC. As someone put it rather well I think "that will happen when and IF Microsoft wants it to happen".

As for people that record HBO-HD (assume you mean HD as there are plenty of cheap PCI capture cards that will record any standard-def analog NTSC signal, S-Video etc...) they are doing it one of two ways that I know of.. 1) via firewire with a hacked STB so 5c is defeated, or 2) they live in an area/cable system that hasn't implemented 5c yet - the Bay Area not being one of them. Because the only alternative is with very expensive professional-level component (analog) capture cards.

From what I have read so far, 5c is not an encryption method but a flag in the data stream that tell's 5c compliant devices to not record based on the settings. Pretty much like data networking and bits in the packet being flipped from 0 1 etc etc.

Anyways I think you can copy from STB to DVHS then connect the DVHS to your PC. Is that correct?

Back to my original point.
As I feared, there are no ways to get:
ESPN-HD, Discovery-HD over Comcast's system to record onto the PC. Not even going to mention the Premium channels. (Sigh).

jondoms--

Your interpretation is not quite correct. The STB will allow the DVHS deck to make a copy of "copy always" or "copy once" 5c-flagged content. But the DVHS player won't play that recording to a non 5c-compliant device, such as a PC, unless it's "copy always". And the transferred material is indeed scrambled such that only the 5c-compliant receiving device, which has been given the encryption key, can unscramble it.

Does anybody elses guide data missing chanells 2-106? I am in Daly City Feed. I don't want to call scumcast, since I have been receiving Showtime, TMC, Cinemax and Starz for free now for about 3 weeks, ever since they changed my DVR (I think).

Do you have any idea how silly you appear when calling someone else "scum" in the same breath as you boast about getting stuff for free that you should be paying for?

From what I have read so far, 5c is not an encryption method but a flag in the data stream that tell's 5c compliant devices to not record based on the settings. Pretty much like data networking and bits in the packet being flipped from 0 1 etc etc.

From the DTCP (5c) Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Transmission_Content_Protection):

"The DTCP specification relies on strong cryptographic technologies to provide flexible and robust copy protection across digital buses"

So while it may not be encryption the traditional sense, I believe it is more then just "flipping a bit".

From the DTCP (5c) Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Transmission_Content_Protection):

"The DTCP specification relies on strong cryptographic technologies to provide flexible and robust copy protection across digital buses"

So while it may not be encryption the traditional sense, I believe it is more then just "flipping a bit".
I thought the distinction was 5c encryption happens post broadcast and is independent of any encryption or lack thereof in the broadcast itself. From the standpoint of the broadcast itself it is flipping a bit. From the standpoint of recording downstream in a 5c compliant chain, the encryption comes into play.

That is correct, 5c is a flag the broadcaster sets, and if a Firewire device detects the flag, it enables encryption.

If you have a DVHS you can record 5c=1 (copy once) via Firewire, but you could not make another copy from the DVHS's Firewire output (ie to a PC's hard drive). If 5c is not present (5c=0) then you could, but if that's the case then you can record to the PC directly in the first place.

If 5c=2 (copy never) then you can't record it, ever, on any device.

Do you have any idea how silly you appear when calling someone else "scum" in the same breath as you boast about getting stuff for free that you should be paying for?

OK, point taken.

But at the outrageous prices Comcast charges in the Bay Area, compared to like services and channels in other parts of the country from other vendors, Bay Are=$149.00 a month including HSI, I don't feel too bad getting a couple of 2nd Tier premium channels for a month a month or so. Likely I will get charged anyways.

But there has to be some level of encryption inside of the transport itself, right? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean by "flag" but I take that as a bit in the data stream that could be turned/off with any normal binrary editor. Walk, you said "if a firewire device detects the flag, it enables encryption". But what if the device doesn't have the ability to detect that flag? It could potentially just skip over that bit an continue reading the rest of the file. Maybe it's something like what Tivo does with their files and puts a "wrapper" around the file that can only be unlocked by an appropriately set up device?

But there has to be some level of encryption inside of the transport itself, right? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you mean by "flag" but I take that as a bit in the data stream that could be turned/off with any normal binrary editor. Walk, you said "if a firewire device detects the flag, it enables encryption". But what if the device doesn't have the ability to detect that flag? It could potentially just skip over that bit an continue reading the rest of the file. Maybe it's something like what Tivo does with their files and puts a "wrapper" around the file that can only be unlocked by an appropriately set up device?
As I understand it between the head-end and your box is not governed by DTCP encryption. It is whatever is provided by the cable company.

The DTCP encryption starts from the STB to your recording device, ie over the 1394 bus in this case, so everything you said applies to the 1394 bus portion of the chain.

The "device that doesn't have the ability to detect the flag" is not supposed to be able to exist because it cannot get a DTCP license and associated protection apparatus. If it did exist, it would either be fixed or litigated to the point of non-existence. That's the theory anyway.

At least that is how I understand it.