He asked for a list of what channels are not 5c'ed, but there is no such list, since it doesn't go by channel. There are certain channels that SEEM to be permanently flagged, and some that are only sometimes flagged... We can only provide a (rather short) list of what shows on which channels that we've been able to record in the past - but even that could change....Thank you, yes that is the sort of info I was looking for.

BTW, my local DMA is SF, but all I get digitally OTA is Sacramento, which is subject to rain fade. So it would sometimes be nice to have recordable HD locals from cable/sat.

Yes, for HBO I meant HD.

Does anybody elses guide data missing chanells 2-106? I am in Daly City Feed. I don't want to call scumcast, since I have been receiving Showtime, TMC, Cinemax and Starz for free now for about 3 weeks, ever since they changed my DVR (I think).
I think this is the problem that you have. I expect that you picked up an all digital 3412 instead of the analog/digital 6412. Both come preconfigured with some premium channels but when they get around to configuring the box for your account, you'll loose those channels. Usually this occures within 1-2 weeks on a 6412. Since the 3412 will not have the channels below 100 mapped correctly until it has been configured, Comcast may have decided to wait until you call to reconfigure.

I just noticed that OnDemand has Stephen King's TNT series in HD.

It just came up on my system in Rohnert Park, CA. The cool thing is that it is free. We don't have TNT-HD here so this is a bonus.

I'm using a cable card. I'm looking for speed channel usualy 408 on Comcast set top box.

The way the tv is set up, we autoprogram without the card, insert the box and it's done. No pairing needed. HD works fine in the 700 series channel.

The Comcast guy said I would have to manually search for it.

Thanks!

I just noticed that OnDemand has Stephen King's TNT series in HD.
I watched "Battleground" so far via Dish and it's pretty good. Plus, these two shows have some fantastic PQ.

I watched "Battleground" so far via Dish and it's pretty good. Plus, these two shows have some fantastic PQ.

I switched from Directv to Comcast just before the World Cup for the better HD Res, and, to be fair, the service people at Comcast have been unfailingly courteous and always tried to be helpful. Unfortunately, Comcast has been saddled with Motorola equipment which are an abomination!

I have 2 3412 DVR whose quirks have already been well documented in the AVS forums. Worse, even my set top box had to be swapped because ON Demand stopped working. The final straw.... the moto cable modem I received last week (what was I thinking adding more service when I was already unhappy with comcast?) could not be joined to a wireless router.

I'm switching to DISH this week. I'll pay more for DISH but I'm hoping to more than make up for it with the added income from not having to stay home every few weeks to wait for the cable guy to come and fix something.

I'm having problem receiving HD channels from Comcast (Petaluma).
Only able to see 702, 705, 719, 720, 725.
The rest of the channels show "One Moment Please".
This is since Day-1 of HD service.

A technician came to check it out, he was basically blaming my TV (my HDTV hadn't arrived yet then).
I gave up trying to explain to him that he was wrong. Since I was able to see INHD channels, there's no way it was the TV. Plus, there's no way in the world, the Comcast box would be able to detect/know what's on the other end via Component connection.

The fact that he kept referring to HD connection as 5-wire component, made me realize I would be wasting my time with him.

What do I have to do to get this fixed?

Also, I think I'm being overcharged. First they charged me for the service I never quite received (only 2 HD local channels), and then they also charged me lease of the box. ($5 for HD service, $5 for HD box lease).

Any help is appreciated.

As I understand it between the head-end and your box is not governed by DTCP encryption. It is whatever is provided by the cable company.

The DTCP encryption starts from the STB to your recording device, ie over the 1394 bus in this case, so everything you said applies to the 1394 bus portion of the chain.

The "device that doesn't have the ability to detect the flag" is not supposed to be able to exist because it cannot get a DTCP license and associated protection apparatus. If it did exist, it would either be fixed or litigated to the point of non-existence. That's the theory anyway.

At least that is how I understand it.

Ahhh...that would make sense. So ther is encryption...the "bit" just says what should be able to be done with it.

I'm having problem receiving HD channels from Comcast (Petaluma).
Only able to see 702, 705, 719, 720, 725.
The rest of the channels show "One Moment Please".
This is since Day-1 of HD service.

A technician came to check it out, he was basically blaming my TV (my HDTV hadn't arrived yet then).
I gave up trying to explain to him that he was wrong. Since I was able to see INHD channels, there's no way it was the TV. Plus, there's no way in the world, the Comcast box would be able to detect/know what's on the other end via Component connection.

The fact that he kept referring to HD connection as 5-wire component, made me realize I would be wasting my time with him.

What do I have to do to get this fixed?

Also, I think I'm being overcharged. First they charged me for the service I never quite received (only 2 HD local channels), and then they also charged me lease of the box. ($5 for HD service, $5 for HD box lease).

Any help is appreciated.
Many times the problem is with cable wiring in the house. A good indication of cable wiring problems is the inability to get OnDemand to work. All the local HD channels are usually automatically configured in the box. If you can run a long coax from the junction box on the house to your STB (or if you have a small SD TV place that near the junction box with the STB connected to the TV via coax which should get the HD channels letterboxed), that should indicate whether or not the coax in the house is any good.

Since you didn't indicate which type of service you have, it is hard to determine if you were overcharged. As far as the $5 HD service, that is normal if you have a cable card or a 62xx STB but if you have a 64xx or 34xx DVR you normally get charged $9.95 for the box (but HD service is included in that price).

Many times the problem is with cable wiring in the house. A good indication of cable wiring problems is the inability to get OnDemand to work. All the local HD channels are usually automatically configured in the box. If you can run a long coax from the junction box on the house to your STB (or if you have a small SD TV place that near the junction box with the STB connected to the TV via coax which should get the HD channels letterboxed), that should indicate whether or not the coax in the house is any good.

Since you didn't indicate which type of service you have, it is hard to determine if you were overcharged. As far as the $5 HD service, that is normal if you have a cable card or a 62xx STB but if you have a 64xx or 34xx DVR you normally get charged $9.95 for the box (but HD service is included in that price).

Thanks for your reply.

On Demand works fine (even the free HD on Demand Movie, watched MIB yesterday from start to finish -> no problem).
I only added HD service (local) to my basic cable account.
Yes, I thought it was strange too that they're charging me $10 for a 6200 (non DVR STB)

I have to call Comcast again, twice: tech support & billing dept.

Thanks for your reply.

On Demand works fine (even the free HD on Demand Movie, watched MIB yesterday from start to finish -> no problem).
I only added HD service (local) to my basic cable account.
Yes, I thought it was strange too that they're charging me $10 for a 6200 (non DVR STB)

I have to call Comcast again, twice: tech support & billing dept.
To me it seems that they are charging you $5 less than they are suppose to. Normally going from analog extended to digital (that is what an STB does) is usually about $10 per month more and then another $5 for HD. However since you claim your are still basic cable and shouldn't be able to receive anything above channel 100 (except maybe some of the 700 range channels), maybe Comcast now allows the upgrade without digital cable and charges you only $5 for the box.

Yes there is encryption on the Firewire output if the 5c flag is set (5c=1 or 2) and you can't record it on a PC with CapDVHS/etc.

If no 5c flag (5c=0), no encryption, and you can record it with CapDVHS...

The cost for standard/basic cable varies by franchise, but the prices for digital cable and box rental(s) should be fairly standard.

As far as I know:

Digital Cable = $9.95 *cheapest package called "Digital Classic", includes a Standard-Def box and remote.
Upgrade to a DVR (with HDTV) = $9.95
Upgrade a HDTV box (non-DVR) = $5

So in other words the cheapest Digital package with HD is $9.95 + $5 = $14.95
For HD-DVR it's $9.95 + $9.95 = $19.90

The additional outlet charge is $6.95, plus the above upgrades apply as normal.
In other words 1 additional HD box would be $6.95+$5 = $11.95
1 addtional HD-DVR would be $6.95+9.95 = $16.90

Plus whatever they charge you for basic or standard cable. With only "basic" you may not get some of the HD channels, such as if you don't get the corresponding SD channel (ESPN), and also the INHDs, which is where they put local FSN sports, so if you are interested that, make sure you have "standard" cable.

Yes there is encryption on the Firewire output if the 5c flag is set (5c=1 or 2) and you can't record it on a PC with CapDVHS/etc.

If no 5c flag (5c=0), no encryption, and you can record it with CapDVHS...

The cost for standard/basic cable varies by franchise, but the prices for digital cable and box rental(s) should be fairly standard.

As far as I know:

Digital Cable = $9.95 *cheapest package called "Digital Classic", includes a Standard-Def box and remote.
Upgrade to a DVR (with HDTV) = $9.95
Upgrade a HDTV box (non-DVR) = $5

So in other words the cheapest Digital package with HD is $9.95 + $5 = $14.95
For HD-DVR it's $9.95 + $9.95 = $19.90

The additional outlet charge is $6.95, plus the above upgrades apply as normal.
In other words 1 additional HD box would be $6.95+$5 = $11.95
1 addtional HD-DVR would be $6.95+9.95 = $16.90

Plus whatever they charge you for basic or standard cable. With only "basic" you may not get some of the HD channels, such as if you don't get the corresponding SD channel (ESPN), and also the INHDs, which is where they put local FSN sports, so if you are interested that, make sure you have "standard" cable.
You also can't get the DVR without a Standard Cable sub.

In Santa Rosa the cheapest you can get the DVR is $76 a month. Damned expensive DVR....

Here in greater Palo Alto they have added a digital SciFi channel (160) in addition to the original analog SciFi channel. I selected the digital channel for several single recordings (hoping for a better picture) to be recorded a week or so in advance. Some days later I reviewed my recording schedule and found that the Motorola 6412 now showed that my recordings would be taken from channel 68, the original analog version. The only trick I could think of was to record on BOTH using the two tuners. That seemed to force one of the recordings to use the digital channel.

- Has anyone seen this?

- Any ideas how to force my requests to stick to the channel I want?

How does Comcast distribute content to the different cable systems throughout the bay area? Does each cable system receive content via SAT and land lines and put it on their own system or is there as central place that receives and organizes content and distributes that via optical to the other systems?

Walk,

So I'm being screwed over and over.
I'm paying $18 for basic cable, plus $5 box lease, plus $5 HD service

PLUS: I only got 2 local HD channels, 2 INHD & 2 ESPN !!

OK, it's really getting hard to be a Comcast customer and keep your day job!

Yes there is encryption on the Firewire output if the 5c flag is set (5c=1 or 2) and you can't record it on a PC with CapDVHS/etc.

If no 5c flag (5c=0), no encryption, and you can record it with CapDVHS...

The cost for standard/basic cable varies by franchise, but the prices for digital cable and box rental(s) should be fairly standard.

As far as I know:

Digital Cable = $9.95 *cheapest package called "Digital Classic", includes a Standard-Def box and remote.
Upgrade to a DVR (with HDTV) = $9.95
Upgrade a HDTV box (non-DVR) = $5

So in other words the cheapest Digital package with HD is $9.95 + $5 = $14.95
For HD-DVR it's $9.95 + $9.95 = $19.90

The additional outlet charge is $6.95, plus the above upgrades apply as normal.
In other words 1 additional HD box would be $6.95+$5 = $11.95
1 addtional HD-DVR would be $6.95+9.95 = $16.90

Plus whatever they charge you for basic or standard cable. With only "basic" you may not get some of the HD channels, such as if you don't get the corresponding SD channel (ESPN), and also the INHDs, which is where they put local FSN sports, so if you are interested that, make sure you have "standard" cable.

I'm having problem receiving HD channels from Comcast (Petaluma).
Only able to see 702, 705, 719, 720, 725.
The rest of the channels show "One Moment Please".
This is since Day-1 of HD service.

Have you tested your signal strength? The 6412 and 3412 are notorious for requiring very strong signals. Being able to see all channels with your other TVs is no guarantee. If you access the service menu, you will be able to learn what kind of signal the box is getting. Before I got a signal amplifier, I had occasional problems where I would lose some of the high-def tier of channels.

There is a very good WikiBook on the 6412/3412. Here is the link to how to check signal strength.

WikiBook on Signal Strength (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Configuration#How_To_Check_Your_Incoming_Signal_Strength)

Have you tested your signal strength? The 6412 and 3412 are notorious for requiring very strong signals. Being able to see all channels with your other TVs is no guarantee. If you access the service menu, you will be able to learn what kind of signal the box is getting. Before I got a signal amplifier, I had occasional problems where I would lose some of the high-def tier of channels.

There is a very good WikiBook on the 6412/3412. Here is the link to how to check signal strength.

WikiBook on Signal Strength (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/How_to_use_a_Motorola_DVR/Configuration#How_To_Check_Your_Incoming_Signal_Strength)

Tom, I have Motorola DCT-6200 box.
Does it still apply?

Also, I've noticed that my analog channels actually got worse after I subscribed to HD service?

Riddle me this...are any of the non-HD digital cable channels unencrypted over QAM? (Besides the OTA channels (NBC, CBS, etc.) ) ? I was about to buy a QAM tuner for my HTPC, but if you can only get the OTA channels, I'll save my money.

- Any ideas how to force my requests to stick to the channel I want?
Did you use "this channel only"?

Almost all of the QAM channels are encrypted. You can still buy a QAM tuner TV you just need a CableCard. You won't get the guide or VOD etc...

Bigpow; if you're only paying $18 for basic cable, you shouldn't even be getting ESPN. But you should be getting 702-709 at least. Call Comcast and have them reset or re-authorize the box. If that doesn't help, get a tech out to check your signal levels. The 6200 isn't as picky as the DVR boxes, so it sounds more to me like an authorization problem.

To get ESPN you need "standard" cable or whatever level lets you get the analog version ("basic" cable usually stops at 31-32 and ESPN is 38-39).

Sounds to me like you have
"Basic" cable - $18
HDTV service - $5
Upcharge for the digital box & remote without having a digital package - $5
I guess...
You're probably better off for another $4 just getting the "Digital Classic" package that includes the box & remote (SD box), $9.95/mo..

Many of the recently implemented SD ADS stations are currently not encrypted. But I wouldn't count on that always being the case. Barovelli chose to ignore my question when I asked about this previously.

Anyone know how much the sports tier is (the one with all the FSNs)?

walk,
i couldn't pm u - how much is comcast basic hd really?
i'm being charged $28/mo now, add $4 and that's comparable w/ dish-hd bronze...
($50 install fee or 18mo contract)

Sports tier == $4.95 (according to last list I have)

Sports tier == $4.95 (according to last list I have)

IMHO, the "sports tier" is kind of lame. Only if you're a college sports fan of a particular region does it really help. You won't see any regional MLB, NFL, or NBA games on any of the provided channels.

IMHO, the "sports tier" is kind of lame. Only if you're a college sports fan of a particular region does it really help. You won't see any regional MLB, NFL, or NBA games on any of the provided channels.
In Santa Rosa you don't even have to worry about such things, sports tier..? What's that..? :p

In Santa Rosa you don't even have to worry about such things, sports tier..? What's that..? :p

You see!!?? Comcast is looking out for you guys. Not upgrading you is actually to your benefit. Now you don't have to make those pesky decisions of "do I want the sports package or the music package???". :D

walk,
i couldn't pm u - how much is comcast basic hd really?
i'm being charged $28/mo now, add $4 and that's comparable w/ dish-hd bronze...
($50 install fee or 18mo contract)
Basic is different depending on the area, but it's usually in the $12-20 range. If you are getting the ESPNs, the INHDs, and the local HD channels for $28 you're getting a screaming deal and I wouldn't even press the issue with Comcast. Chances are though if you are a new install you will lose those channels soon, leaving just the local HD. Not sure why you are paying an additional $5 for HDTV service if you're already paying $5 for the 6200.

You see!!?? Comcast is looking out for you guys. Not upgrading you is actually to your benefit. Now you don't have to make those pesky decisions of "do I want the sports package or the music package???". :D
Exactly!! Who needs all those headaches? :D

Not sure why you are paying an additional $5 for HDTV service if you're already paying $5 for the 6200.
Comcasts published pricing assumes that you follow a logical specific upgrade path such as analog cable to digital cable to HD. In that example it would only cost $5 to go from digital cable to HD. However, since he is trying to upgrade from analog directly to HD (sort of a misnomer), he does not have a non HD STB to return to Comcast so an additional $5 appear to be charged.

In the end, I'm not that sure that the path he is following will give him very good results. I think that you are correct that he will be limited to only the national networks in HD.

Comcasts published pricing assumes that you follow a logical specific upgrade path such as analog cable to digital cable to HD. In that example it would only cost $5 to go from digital cable to HD. However, since he is trying to upgrade from analog directly to HD, he does not have a non HD STB to return to Comcast so an additional $5 appear to be charged.
He's already paying $5 for the 6200 STB after he made the change from analog to digital, there should not be another $5 charge for "HDTV Service", I don't even know what that is, other than it's generally used in conjunction with the DVR fee.

His bill may say Digital STB with HDTV service but it should still be only $5, plus the Limited Basic rate.

In the end, I'm not that sure that the path he is following will give him very good results. I think that you are correct that he will be limited to only the national networks in HD.
If all he's subscribed to is Limited Basic, that's all he will get. His bill should read,

Limited Basic................$X
STB w/ HDTV service.....$5
Local fees and taxes.....$x

The total should be around $18 to 25 or so dollars.

To the best of my knowledge, that extra $5 shouldn't be on the bill, unless he also has another converter box on the account.

He's already paying $5 for the 6200 STB after he made the change from analog to digital, there should not be another $5 charge for "HDTV Service", I don't even know what that is, other than it's generally used in conjunction with the DVR fee.
I think it is the way someone wants to look at it. In another example, Comcast indicats that Cable Cards are free but if one is ordered, you better return the included STB or you will get charged for an additional digital outlet and a STB.

I think it is the way someone wants to look at it. In another example, Comcast indicats that Cable Cards are free but if one is ordered, you better return the included STB or you will get charged for an additional digital outlet and a STB.
If I understand correctly, bigpow says he's being charged two $5 fees, one for the 6200 STB and one labeled HDTV service. I don't understand what the extra $5 for the HDTV service is. The local HD channels are piped into your house, in the clear, whether you have a way to receive them or not. Every Limited Basic sub gets the channels, they just need the $5 HD-capable STB to display them, or a CC, or a QAM-capable tuner, such as in many displays.

If I understand correctly, bigpow says he's being charged two $5 fees, one for the 6200 STB and one labeled HDTV service. I don't understand what the extra $5 for the HDTV service is. The local HD channels are piped into your house, in the clear, whether you have a way to receive them or not. Every Limited Basic sub gets the channels, they just need the $5 HD-capable STB to display them, or a CC, or a QAM-capable tuner, such as in many displays.
If I not wrong, he should currently also be able to pick up all the Standard Basic channels if he owned a QAM tuner but at the same time, Comcast will charge him extra also for that. So Comcast pricing does not make a lot of sense.

straight from my bill:

Cable Video
---------------
- Digital Equip & Remote
$4
- Limited Basic
$17.21
-High Definition TV
$5

Cable Video monthly charges
$26.21


Guys, really I'm fine even if I have to pay extra $4 for the STB lease,
but I'm concern since I can only see 702 & 705 from the local HD channels :(

I could care less for ESPN & ESPN2.
I'd like to keep INHD & INHD2 though...
My main goal is to watch local channels (ABC, NBC, CBS & ABC), that's it.

I've an appointment with Comcast tomorrow - hopefully it will work out
If not, I guess I'll have to look for an alternative (DishHD Bronze package)

Just got a message on my box saying On Demand would be getting enhancements/upgrades from 12AM - 6AM on 7/20 (and would possibly be unavailable).

Anyone know what's going to be done? I'm in the San Pablo Rebuild.

straight from my bill:

Cable Video
---------------
- Digital Equip & Remote
$4
- Limited Basic
$17.21
-High Definition TV
$5

Cable Video monthly charges
$26.21


Guys, really I'm fine even if I have to pay extra $4 for the STB lease,
but I'm concern since I can only see 702 & 705 from the local HD channels :(

I could care less for ESPN & ESPN2.
I'd like to keep INHD & INHD2 though...
My main goal is to watch local channels (ABC, NBC, CBS & ABC), that's it.

I've an appointment with Comcast tomorrow - hopefully it will work out
If not, I guess I'll have to look for an alternative (DishHD Bronze package)
- Digital Equip & Remote
$4

-High Definition TV
$5

It's the above two entries that I don't understand, you're being charged some extra money there that you shouldn't be.

Guys,

1st of all, thanks for the sympathy & support
I just talked to Comcast and they will take out the $4 from the bill
It was confusing, but their website clearly states: $5/mo for HD cable box & HD service is free

Another tech is supposed to come and fix my problem - all fingers crossed

If I not wrong, he should currently also be able to pick up all the Standard Basic channels if he owned a QAM tuner but at the same time, Comcast will charge him extra also for that. So Comcast pricing does not make a lot of sense.
In areas where ADS has taken place others will have to provide the info.

But for areas with no ADS,

Limited Basic will get the 25-30 analog channels, plus, the local HD channels. The HD channels can be viewed using a QAM tuner, no equipment from Comcast is necessary. If you do not have a QAM tuner, and want to view the local HD you'll need a CableCARD or an HD capable STB which will run about $5 a month. The HD DVR will run about $10 a month, although to get the DVR you'll need to sub to Standard(Limited Basic+Expanded Basic), plus Digital Classic. In my area this is about $58. The DVR costs $9.95. Add the taxes and fees and it comes to about $76.

I have 3 entries on my bill,

Digital Classic--------------$9.95
Standard Cable----------$47.25
DVR Service With HDTV---$9.95

This is why I'm curious about the extra charges on bigpow's bill.

Guys,

1st of all, thanks for the sympathy & support
I just talked to Comcast and they will take out the $4 from the bill
It was confusing, but their website clearly states: $5/mo for HD cable box & HD service is free

Another tech is supposed to come and fix my problem - all fingers crossed
Good deal, I thought something was wrong with that. :)

One recommendation, if you are paying the silver or gold package in Comcast call them and tell them about the Platinum package in DishNetwork that "you received in the mail" and asked them what can they offer.
I was paying $93 for the Silver package, plus internet, dvr, etc. The total was around $145.
Now, I'm going to pay less than that and I got the platinum package, all the movie channels are included. This is valid for 10 months, and I can cancel any time.
It seems that they applied several offers in my bill, I'm going to be paying $20 for internet, -$20 for platinum, etc.

So, call the comcast number and try to get the best deal you can!

One recommendation, if you are paying the silver or gold package in Comcast call them and tell them about the Platinum package in DishNetwork that "you received in the mail" and asked them what can they offer.
I was paying $93 for the Silver package, plus internet, dvr, etc. The total was around $145.
Now, I'm going to pay less than that and I got the platinum package, all the movie channels are included. This is valid for 10 months, and I can cancel any time.
It seems that they applied several offers in my bill, I'm going to be paying $20 for internet, -$20 for platinum, etc.

So, call the comcast number and try to get the best deal you can!

wow good deal! i have silver and i'll bring it up. its about time i get a little discount :)

yeah, and for the people who call, yes, it'll take some time. They put you on hold, they need to restart their computers, etc., you know the usual tricks, you just need to stay on the line and that should make it.

Get a magazine or something like that to waste time while you are waiting :)

keenan,

I agree that adding HD to basic cable does not produce a lot of benefit (and in theory On Demand should also be extremely limited but I'm not sure that can be performed) and the price for that service should be very low. However, a $5 total charge is a big time money looser since at $5 per month, it will take over 3 years to just pay for that STB let alone any service calls.

Even though the number of digital cable customers is less than 1/3rd the number of basic cable customers, that is were the profit is made. These are the customers that pay for system upgrades and acquiring HD content. The following link shows a table at the bottom comparing the number of digital to basic customers (circa. 2004).

http://www.mbc-thebridge.com/viewbridge.cfm?instance_id=7

Unfortunately, the table does not break out basic and standard cable customers which would give a better idea of it's income.

I think Comcast is in a Quandry. They are trying to entice customers to move off of basic cable by allowing an intermediate step by upgrading to HD. The problem is that at $5 ($23 total), the customer will have a real sticker shock if he upgrades to standard cable ($47 + $5 for HD service). I think Comcast has the intermediate step officially priced at $27 but will drop the extra $4 charge if the customers complains.

IMO, all the upgrades of 550 Mhz systems and HD channels will be a slow process until cable companies figure out a way of enticing more customers to upgrade from basic cable. Also SAT companies will continue to degrade HD channels until they get more premium customers.

Anyway that is my 2 cents. I am paying my share of any Comcast upgrades since I am a platinum/multiroom/broadband customer.

keenan,

I agree that adding HD to basic cable does not produce a lot of benefit
Benefit to who? Comcast? Maybe not, but to the sub who has a modern display with QAM tuner, all they need to do is plug the cable in and they have local HD. All for the price of a Basic cable subscription. No additional cost needs to be incurred.
Even though the number of digital cable customers is less than 1/3rd the number of basic cable customers, that is were the profit is made.

Unfortunately, the table does not break out basic and standard cable customers which would give a better idea of it's income.
Comcast digital customers are just under 50% of the total sub count.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v637/keenanj/SubNo1Q06.jpg

I think Comcast is in a Quandry. They are trying to entice customers to move off of basic cable by allowing an intermediate step by upgrading to HD. The problem is that at $5 ($23 total), the customer will have a real sticker shock if he upgrades to standard cable ($47 + $5 for HD service). I think Comcast has the intermediate step officially priced at $27 but will drop the extra $4 charge if the customers complains.


Again, there is no need to spend the $5 for "HDTV service" unless you don't have the equipment (QAM tuner) yourself. Comcast is not charging subs $5 to receive the local HD channels, they are charging for the equipment to make it possible, if you can't do it yourself. Comcast does not have a "HD" tier, or package. Comcast doesn't really care about moving subs from analog to HD, they want to move them from analog to digital. I have no idea what that extra $4 was all about, it appears as if it was a billing mistake.

I recently swapped my 6412 for a 3412. The first one had to be returned. TVJapan could not be activated on it. It was weird.

The new one seems to be more stable than the 6412. Not that there was anything really wrong with the 6412 other than the remote commands getting logjammed, until it started to reboot itself daily. But, I haven't noticed the remote logjam doesn't happen nearly as much with the 3412. It happens. But, I believe it may only be when it's recording 2 HD programs at the same time, or some other high CPU use activity like that.

But, one thing I do notice is that while the ADS channels look a little better than the analog counterparts did, the digital (above 100) channels look a little worse. The digital channels definitely looked better with the 6412. And, the ADS channels really don't look all that much better, either.

Has anybody else noticed that with the PQ of the 3412? Should I exchange it for yet another one? (3rd time's the charm, eh?)

But, I haven't noticed the remote logjam doesn't happen nearly as much with the 3412. It happens. But, I believe it may only be when it's recording 2 HD programs at the same time, or some other high CPU use activity like that.

For me, the "logjam" of remote commands does happen just as often as the 3412...it's just not as bad (i.e. it "catches up" quicker). On that note, I was browsing through my PC World magazine and there was an article on HDTV and whether or not it's worth upgrading your TV for it. When it talked about DVR's, they specifically mentioned Comcast, the Moto box, and the remote issue. You know there's a problem when even a personal computer magazine gives you a bad review based on a problem that's existed for well over a year.

Here's a groovy fact. Channel 40 (FSN) is 528x480 (ADS that is)
Channel 410 (FSN+) is 704x480.

Both had the Giants game on yeterday, guess which one I watched? :)

Channel 54 (Cartoon) is 704x480. I haven't checked many of the others.

But I mean.. 528x480? Yeeeesh. Do they really save that much b/w by cutting out almost 200 lines? Er, columns?

Most of the "digital cable" channels are 528x480 (and some are even smaller--I forget the number). I agree that it seems silly to use such low rez, but there it is. Only the OTA-derived channels seem to be 704.

Here's a groovy fact. Channel 40 (FSN) is 528x480 (ADS that is)
Channel 410 (FSN+) is 704x480.
How did you determine the resolution of those channels?

Here's a groovy fact. Channel 40 (FSN) is 528x480 (ADS that is)
Channel 410 (FSN+) is 704x480.
...
But I mean.. 528x480? Yeeeesh. Do they really save that much b/w by cutting out almost 200 lines? Er, columns?
Are you sure you don't have those reversed? I haven't checked in a while but IIRC the ADS channels I did check were all 704x480, while the digital cable channels vary, many times 528x480.

This is why many people notice digital cable looks worse than analog (if you have a good analog feed).

I found the ADS channels more comparable to good analog feed. There is definitely less noise and the sharpness is about the same. I still prefer good analog, but they are close enough I wouldn't be upset if one got switched for the other (from the standpoint of PQ)

When I checked (using MyHD, mterzich) I found that some of the ADS channels are 704, but not all are. In particular, WB was not--which disappointed me, since I can't receive that OTA at all reliably here.

The resolution of analog NTSC captured over the air does not exceed 528 pixels horizontally. In fact, it's more like 440 pixels. Here's the math:

1000/1001 * 30 = 29.97002997... frames/sec

1/29.97002997... = 33.3666666... milliseconds/frame

33.3666666... / 525 = 63.555555... microseconds/line

63.555555... * 4200000 = 266.9333333... cycles/line (4.2 MHz video bandwidth of OTA NTSC)

A "cycle" represents 2 pixels.

266.93333... * 2 = 533.8666666... pixels per line

However, 17% of the scan line is blanking.

533.8666666 * 0.83 = 443.109 pixels per active line

Therefore, you don't lose any OTA NTSC horizontal resolution when encoding with 528x480.

Ron

Comcast digital customers are just under 50% of the total sub count.

Interesting data...I didn't realize that many of the Comcast subsribers (or any CACo) had that many digital subscribers. Where was this data pulled from?

One recommendation, if you are paying the silver or gold package in Comcast call them and tell them about the Platinum package in DishNetwork that "you received in the mail" and asked them what can they offer.
I was paying $93 for the Silver package, plus internet, dvr, etc. The total was around $145.
Now, I'm going to pay less than that and I got the platinum package, all the movie channels are included. This is valid for 10 months, and I can cancel any time.
It seems that they applied several offers in my bill, I'm going to be paying $20 for internet, -$20 for platinum, etc.

So, call the comcast number and try to get the best deal you can!

I just got off the phone with comcast and they would not offer any deal on the platinum package but said that they would lower the HSI to $20/month for 6 months.
:mad:

I just got off the phone with comcast and they would not offer any deal on the platinum package but said that they would lower the HSI to $20/month for 6 months.
:mad:

You may need to escalate your situation. Chances are if you called at night, there aren't too many people who can help you. Keep persisting...Comcast does have a Customer Retention department

You may need to escalate your situation. Chances are if you called at night, there aren't too many people who can help you. Keep persisting...Comcast does have a Customer Retention department


Good point. What was especially irratating was that if you want to cancel service you must call back during normal business hours. BUT, if you want to add service, someone is there to help you. Bastards!!!

Interesting data...I didn't realize that many of the Comcast subsribers (or any CACo) had that many digital subscribers. Where was this data pulled from?
It's from The Bridge, a media research firm. Most of the stuff is high-dollar reports but there are some free subscriptions. I get a monthly newsletter that's focused on different parts of the media each month, cable, DBS, internet, VOD etc, interesting stuff.

http://www.mbc-thebridge.com/
The BRIDGE - Because no media's an island®

Interesting to note from the above table how stagnant cable sub adds are compared to DBS. But they are adding digital subs from their analog base. Not hardly fast enough though for those of us that would like to see analog go away faster.

Therefore, you don't lose any OTA NTSC horizontal resolution when encoding with 528x480.
Assuming that is the case, there's some other reason why the 528x480 transmissions look so poor when stretched to 16x9 while the 704x480 don't look nearly as bad. It could be a bitrate issue. However it does appear that whenever I look at digital SD that looks reasonable it is 704x480 and when it is blurry, it is almost always 528x480. Maybe it is a case of needing to encode at higher resolution to accurately depict the lower resolution.

Hello All:

A noob question, if I may. I've been following today's postings (on other sites) on the imminent release of the Series 3 Tivo HD DVR. There is particularly some concern regarding the compatibility of the Series 3 and switched digital video, if used by MSOs. Is that something we need to worry about with our local Comcast "friends"?

Thx.
John

Any interesting article from the SF Chronicle about the questionable tactics that Comcast and AT&T are doing to lock in customers with long term contracts and not franchise contracts.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/19/BUGEHK1AGD1.DTL

In my case it doesn't much matter at the end of baseball season I'll no longer be a Comcast subscriber but those that are staying this is something to watch out for.

Laters,
Mikef5

Hello All:

A noob question, if I may. I've been following today's postings (on other sites) on the imminent release of the Series 3 Tivo HD DVR. There is particularly some concern regarding the compatibility of the Series 3 and switched digital video, if used by MSOs. Is that something we need to worry about with our local Comcast "friends"?

Thx.
John

It could very well pose a problem but I don't think it will anytime soon. There was an article referenced here about a month ago that talked about switched video and there was no mention of Comcast going this route. And it seemed like most of the MSO's see video switching as a short-term solution. Who knows though.

Hello All:

A noob question, if I may. I've been following today's postings (on other sites) on the imminent release of the Series 3 Tivo HD DVR. There is particularly some concern regarding the compatibility of the Series 3 and switched digital video, if used by MSOs. Is that something we need to worry about with our local Comcast "friends"?

Thx.
John
According to the below article, it depends on the definition you use. It seems Comcast's approach is not technically "switched video" in the IPTV sense so the TiVo could work as it would today.

And for the bandwidth strapped among us, note the underlined passage.

Comcast data customers can access a wide range of video clips through Comcast's customer portal and a feature called "The Fan." Is that IPTV? Comcast CTO Dave Fellows says video delivered on an IP (DOCSIS) transmission channel most certainly can be.

The issue, again, is not whether or not it's technically IPTV, but whether the operator is making efficient use of its bandwidth.

Comcast's bag of bandwidth management tools includes using its DOCSIS channel for signaling associated with its VOD service. Comcast has been using that approach for three years, Fellows says. Other MSOs do likewise.

The issue does not have to be whether to switch video or not, but how much video to switch. Comcast interprets VOD as switched video. The key is figuring out how much bandwidth to dedicate to VOD.

VOD could be made to look exactly like any other video. All Comcast (or any other operator) would have to do is update its program guide to present an on-demand stream as a channel. The content could be a network channel or it could be a playlist that looks just like a channel. Unless the operator were to charge differently for the on-demand stream, the user would see no difference. Again, it's an issue of bandwidth management

"Three or four years ago, we decided to go 10 percent switched for VOD, and 90 percent broadcast," Fellows says. "We may, going forward, decide to go 20/80, or 40/60. We can always reset that."

http://www.cedmagazine.com/article/CA6338530.html
Video's Urge to Converge - 6/1/2006 - CED - CA6338530

Comcast interprets VOD as switched video. The key is figuring out how much bandwidth to dedicate to VOD.
In the case of SaraMilgatos and Santa Rosa the amount of bandwidth dedicated to VOD in our area is ZERO, we don't get VOD at all and try and get Comcast to explain why that is the case and all you'll get is the sound of crickets in the background.

Laters,
Mikef5

One recommendation, if you are paying the silver or gold package in Comcast call them and tell them about the Platinum package in DishNetwork that "you received in the mail" and asked them what can they offer.


I've got a better idea, just go with the DISH offer! I did and I'm thrilled with the new ViP 622 mpeg4 DVR and the selection of new HD channels (World Sports HD is great!). Thought I would give it a few days test before dropping Comcast, but I was so impressed that I dropped Comcast and returned my two buggy 6412s within a day!

Granted it costs a bit to get started ($200 deposit on the HD DVR, but what's your frustration with the 6412 worth?), but the overall package (America's top 120 or something like that + HBO) is about $35 less than Comcast with the introductory offer, and will still be cheaper after the intro.

In fairness, DISH currently has a problem with voice slightly out-of-sync on the local SF HD channels, but that seems to be improving, and I can integrate my OTA HD locals and record them on the DVR easily, regardless! Don't understand why anyone "with a clear view of the southern sky" doesn't switch to DISH! Goodbye forever to this forum!

Any interesting article from the SF Chronicle about the questionable tactics that Comcast and AT&T are doing to lock in customers with long term contracts and not franchise contracts.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/19/BUGEHK1AGD1.DTL

In my case it doesn't much matter at the end of baseball season I'll no longer be a Comcast subscriber but those that are staying this is something to watch out for.

Laters,
Mikef5
Wow, that's disgusting. Aren't there laws about making the contract conditions clear and upfront? Like the one manager said, how many have signed that not knowing they just locked themselves in for 10 yrs. That's a repulsive and cheap tactic.

Good point. What was especially irratating was that if you want to cancel service you must call back during normal business hours. BUT, if you want to add service, someone is there to help you. Bastards!!!

Yeah, you have to choose the option "Reduce or Cancel service". Those reps are the ones that have all the best deals.

Any interesting article from the SF Chronicle about the questionable tactics that Comcast and AT&T are doing to lock in customers with long term contracts and not franchise contracts.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/07/19/BUGEHK1AGD1.DTL

In my case it doesn't much matter at the end of baseball season I'll no longer be a Comcast subscriber but those that are staying this is something to watch out for.

Laters,
Mikef5

Any kind of "locked contract" is bad for consumers no matter how you slice it. A buddy of mine lived in a newer apartment complex down in San Diego and was forced to use DirecTV. Sounds good, right? Wrong. All of units signal went to a bank of satellite dishes that he could not touch. Want to add more lines for your dual tuner Tivo? Too bad. Want more programming off the third satellite? Too bad.

And AJ's quote in that article ranks right up there with some of Bush's comments:
Johnson noted that property owners also control the types of washing machines or vending machines in their buildings.

"If that means you can only get Pepsi," he said, "that's how it is."

Wow, that's disgusting. Aren't there laws about making the contract conditions clear and upfront? Like the one manager said, how many have signed that not knowing they just locked themselves in for 10 yrs. That's a repulsive and cheap tactic.

I have to admit that even that's not Comcast's fault. Companies have been using "fine print" tactics for years. If you live in a place where your apartment manager is just going to sign anything that comes across his/her desk, you probably have more things to be worried about.

I've got a better idea, just go with the DISH offer! I did and I'm thrilled with the new ViP 622 mpeg4 DVR and the selection of new HD channels (World Sports HD is great!). Thought I would give it a few days test before dropping Comcast, but I was so impressed that I dropped Comcast and returned my two buggy 6412s within a day!

Granted it costs a bit to get started ($200 deposit on the HD DVR, but what's your frustration with the 6412 worth?), but the overall package (America's top 120 or something like that + HBO) is about $35 less than Comcast with the introductory offer, and will still be cheaper after the intro.

In fairness, DISH currently has a problem with voice slightly out-of-sync on the local SF HD channels, but that seems to be improving, and I can integrate my OTA HD locals and record them on the DVR easily, regardless! Don't understand why anyone "with a clear view of the southern sky" doesn't switch to DISH! Goodbye forever to this forum!
You get that $200 back with programming credits so the ultimate cost is zero.

I've fallen in love with the World Cinema channel, foreign films from all over the world, and the PQ on the good transfers is outstanding, no HD-Lite issues at all.

Of course, this question is asked on a fairly regular basis. I figure it's about time to ask it again. (Quite frankly, searching the single SF thread for a specific topic like this, with all of it's various topics is kind of time consuming.) So...

Any word on new HD channels for the Bay Area? (Specifically, the areas with bandwidth like San Jose) I notice espn2-hd in my EPG. (Although, it doesn't show up in TitanTV or Comcast's web guide.) That's nice and all. But what about the channels that are already on other Comcast systems like TNT-HD and UHD?

I'm not looking for all that useless ex-Voom crap. Just some decent, quality HD content. Speaking of which, any more on the HDNet rumors? That would be a nice add, as long as we didn't lose InHD.

Any kind of "locked contract" is bad for consumers no matter how you slice it. A buddy of mine lived in a newer apartment complex down in San Diego and was forced to use DirecTV. Sounds good, right? Wrong. All of units signal went to a bank of satellite dishes that he could not touch. Want to add more lines for your dual tuner Tivo? Too bad. Want more programming off the third satellite? Too bad.

And AJ's quote in that article ranks right up there with some of Bush's comments:
Yeah, I would hope that AJ wishes he had that one back, what a stupid remark. :rolleyes:

Yeah, I would hope that AJ wishes he had that one back, what a stupid remark.
If you're talking about the Pepsi remark, I like Pepsi, I just don't like it forced down my throat :rolleyes:

Laters,
Mikef5

All in all, I'd rather have Dr. Pepper....... :)

I've got a better idea, just go with the DISH offer! I did and I'm thrilled with the new ViP 622 mpeg4 DVR and the selection of new HD channels (World Sports HD is great!). Thought I would give it a few days test before dropping Comcast, but I was so impressed that I dropped Comcast and returned my two buggy 6412s within a day!

Granted it costs a bit to get started ($200 deposit on the HD DVR, but what's your frustration with the 6412 worth?), but the overall package (America's top 120 or something like that + HBO) is about $35 less than Comcast with the introductory offer, and will still be cheaper after the intro.

In fairness, DISH currently has a problem with voice slightly out-of-sync on the local SF HD channels, but that seems to be improving, and I can integrate my OTA HD locals and record them on the DVR easily, regardless! Don't understand why anyone "with a clear view of the southern sky" doesn't switch to DISH! Goodbye forever to this forum!I was a Dish customer for about 5 years. Quite frankly, Comcast doesn't come close to them when it comes to buggy equipment. And their customer service? Dish makes Comcast look like NASA.

OTOH, I will have some decisions to make when ATT releases HomeZone, which combines Dish and DSL services into one unit. It has all the features of a Dish 622, plus web browsing and email, IP-VOD, home media center, and more.

The only downside I see to switching back to Dish programming is the loss of Comcast VOD, which is absolutely outstanding. Plus, the loss of local sports in HD. That would suck as well. However, the HomeZone receiver has two built-in OTA tuners, so I can receive my local programming in crystal clear digital instead of the compressed crap on both Dish and Comcast. (Including some local HD that Comcast and Dish don't carry, like UPN/WB and, in Dish's case, KQED.)

It'll be a tough decision, when the time comes.

Wow, that's disgusting. Aren't there laws about making the contract conditions clear and upfront? Like the one manager said, how many have signed that not knowing they just locked themselves in for 10 yrs. That's a repulsive and cheap tactic.
$100 gift card for 10yr exclusive on virtually everything for 1000 people?

What kind of idiots run these places (or is that the point)?

What if Comcast or DirecTV offered you the same deal. $100 gift card for 10yr exclusive contract just for your single home? You'd probably just throw the thing in the garbage immediately. I'm hesitant to sign even 1yr exclusive for $200-$300 in incentives.

If I was running one of these places and Comcast came to me for exclusive, I'd want a percentage of their take for 10yrs. Not some $100 gift certificate.

I think Comcast is smart and just found an easier target to exploit. Contracts for commercial or multi-unit dwellings (more than 4 units) tend to not have lots of consumer protections because the management is assumed to be a professional that reads the contracts rather than rubber stamps them.

As deceptive practices come into play, generally the legislature enacts laws to make contracts easier to read or less deceptive for the individual consumers, but these usually apply only for individuals, where the large multi-dwelling units stay with the older anything goes rules.

Out of curiousity does Dish Network have their addtional HD content on anything more than the 63 bird? I can't get that here and when I had dish what HD I had was off the 148.

Out of curiousity does Dish Network have their addtional HD content on anything more than the 63 bird? I can't get that here and when I had dish what HD I had was off the 148.

Brian, you're asking this in the Comcast forum. You might get better answers in HDTV Programming forum.

The only downside I see to switching back to Dish programming is the loss of Comcast VOD, which is absolutely outstanding. Plus, the loss of local sports in HD. That would suck as well.

The next big rumor/waiting game is Dish offering the various RSNs in HD starting "this fall". They haven't released the full listing of RSNs they'll provide, but with Directv offering FSNBA-HD, it should be a lock for Dish as well.

The next big rumor/waiting game is Dish offering the various RSNs in HD starting "this fall". They haven't released the full listing of RSNs they'll provide, but with Directv offering FSNBA-HD, it should be a lock for Dish as well.
With SAT converting to MPEG4, isn't that going to cause a big hit in PQ? The only time I have seen regional SAT MPEG4 broadcasts have been at Frys and I was less than impressed. The last time I saw NBC at Frys, I was watching the Senior PGA Championship and I could not tell when HD cameras were being used and when SD cameras were being used. I thought that it might have been caused by in house wiring but when the channel for that bank was switched to ESPN HD, the picture was quite good. How bad are the MPEG4 channels?

With SAT converting to MPEG4, isn't that going to cause a big hit in PQ?At a given bit rate MPEG-4 content should look better than MPEG-2 content although if you crank the bitrate high enough (higher than feasible for satellite) MPEG-2 can look just as good as MPEG-4. If they allocate the same bandwidth they're using today for MPEG-2, MPEG-4 should look better. If they reduce the bandwidth it'll depend on how far they reduce it.

- Talk

At a given bit rate MPEG-4 content should look better than MPEG-2 content although if you crank the bitrate high enough (higher than feasible for satellite) MPEG-2 can look just as good as MPEG-4. If they allocate the same bandwidth they're using today for MPEG-2, MPEG-4 should look better. If they reduce the bandwidth it'll depend on how far they reduce it.

- Talk
I understand that but the problem is that they are converting MPEG2 tp MPEG4 at a very low bit rate (probably 16-19 mb/s instead at 200-400 mb/s where it should be done. From everything that I have read, PQ degradation when converting MPEG2 to MPEG4 at a low rate should have more of a significant effect than converting to HD-Lite. Also many feeds (movie channels and Discovery as an example) were never designed to be decoded/encoded even MPEG2 to MPEG2 since they do not have a high enough ratio (2:1) for this process to maintain a hgh PQ. So I was just asking how good/bad are the MPEG4 channels in peoples homes?

OT:
is it possible to get Comcast HD using a PC TV Tuner?

Brian, you're asking this in the Comcast forum. You might get better answers in HDTV Programming forum.
People are discussing their Dish experiences versus Comcast. I am a Comcast customer who moved from Dish. I've mentioned here before when people were getting interested in moving from Comcast to Dish to make sure they can actually see the satellite that is carrying the majority of HD material. In my case that wasn't possible at least a year or two back. It could also be by spot beam which might be more Bay Area specific.

Out of curiousity does Dish Network have their addtional HD content on anything more than the 63 bird? I can't get that here and when I had dish what HD I had was off the 148.
All the HD on 61.5 is mirrored on 129. The SF HD locals are on 119. 148 has higher quality HBO and SHO plus KCBS-LA-HD.

OT:
is it possible to get Comcast HD using a PC TV Tuner?

Yes...the channels that aren't encrypted. Make sure the tuner is QAM-capable.

Yes...the channels that aren't encrypted. Make sure the tuner is QAM-capable.

How about local (HD): 702-709, are they encrypted?

How about local (HD): 702-709, are they encrypted?

No, they are not encrypted, but they show up in strange places.

All the HD on 61.5 is mirrored on 129. The SF HD locals are on 119. 148 has higher quality HBO and SHO plus KCBS-LA-HD.
Thanks, Keenan for the information. More satellites makes Dish a more attractive alternative.

Assuming that is the case, there's some other reason why the 528x480 transmissions look so poor when stretched to 16x9 while the 704x480 don't look nearly as bad. It could be a bitrate issue. However it does appear that whenever I look at digital SD that looks reasonable it is 704x480 and when it is blurry, it is almost always 528x480. Maybe it is a case of needing to encode at higher resolution to accurately depict the lower resolution.
It's partly reduced bitrate and partly increased prefiltering (usually with some kind of temporal filtering that really makes things blurry). It's very similar to 1280x1080 on satellite HD. 1280x1080i in itself is not so bad, but when they add on reduced bitrate and filtering, it ends up looking pretty shabby.

BTW, the resolution of the analog MPEG-2 encoder on DCT-6412 Phase III boxes is 544x480. However, the bitrate is set quite high at 6 Mbps average and 9 Mbps peak. Also, the temporal filter is motion compensated, so it does it's job in a much less distracting way than a regular temporal filter. Finally, the 720 to 544 decimation filter was tweaked to provide a flat video passband to 3.75 MHz (by yours truly, I was one of the engineers on the LSI Logic MPEG-2 encoder in the Phase III).

Ron

No, they are not encrypted, but they show up in strange places.

thx... it's nice to know that i can get rid of the stb & integrate everything into my htpc
time to research for qam hdtv tuner

Read the first post..... most of that info is there. If it doesn't say (encrypted) you should be able to find it with a QAM tuner, with some effort.... I hear Comcast likes to remap the frequencies a lot and that can be a pain, but I've never used one personally. Frankly (IMO) the settop box is worth the rental money, especially the DVR model (warts and all).

The resolution of analog NTSC captured over the air does not exceed 528 pixels horizontally. In fact, it's more like 440 pixels. Here's the math:

1000/1001 * 30 = 29.97002997... frames/sec

1/29.97002997... = 33.3666666... milliseconds/frame

33.3666666... / 525 = 63.555555... microseconds/line

63.555555... * 4200000 = 266.9333333... cycles/line (4.2 MHz video bandwidth of OTA NTSC)

A "cycle" represents 2 pixels.

266.93333... * 2 = 533.8666666... pixels per line

However, 17% of the scan line is blanking.

533.8666666 * 0.83 = 443.109 pixels per active line

Therefore, you don't lose any OTA NTSC horizontal resolution when encoding with 528x480.

Ron

17% is blanking?? I'm not a video engineer but that's the first time I've heard that. Interesting.

I know that a certain portion of the 525 vertical rez is blanking, giving us the 480 lines.

DVDs are encoded at 720x480 yes? I don't see why they would waste the extra bits if you only get ~440x480. ?

For the guy who asked, I checked the pixel dimensions with CapDVHS - on a PC via firewire connection.

It's partly reduced bitrate and partly increased prefiltering (usually with some kind of temporal filtering that really makes things blurry). It's very similar to 1280x1080 on satellite HD. 1280x1080i in itself is not so bad, but when they add on reduced bitrate and filtering, it ends up looking pretty shabby.

BTW, the resolution of the analog MPEG-2 encoder on DCT-6412 Phase III boxes is 544x480. However, the bitrate is set quite high at 6 Mbps average and 9 Mbps peak. Also, the temporal filter is motion compensated, so it does it's job in a much less distracting way than a regular temporal filter. Finally, the 720 to 544 decimation filter was tweaked to provide a flat video passband to 3.75 MHz (by yours truly, I was one of the engineers on the LSI Logic MPEG-2 encoder in the Phase III).
Hey thanks for all that insight.

So maybe it is more accurate to say 704x480 broadcasts for Comcast in our area look better than 528x480 broadcasts not because of superior resolution, but because the 704x480 broadcasts tend to also have less filtering and higher relative bitrates. Theoretically the 528x480 broadcasts could look comparable, but in many cases they don't.

Incidently I'm using QAM tuner in my TV and MyHD so I don't get to see the benefits of your work on the 6412 P3 :(

17% is blanking?? I'm not a video engineer but that's the first time I've heard that. Interesting.

I know that a certain portion of the 525 vertical rez is blanking, giving us the 480 lines.

DVDs are encoded at 720x480 yes? I don't see why they would waste the extra bits if you only get ~440x480. ?

For the guy who asked, I checked the pixel dimensions with CapDVHS - on a PC via firewire connection.
DVD's are different. The composite, S-Video or component output doesn't have to fit in a 6 MHz RF channel with an audio carrier 4.5 MHz from the video carrier. Note that in my post I said "analog NTSC captured over the air". For example, a channel like CNN that's sourced from a satellite downlink at the cable headend could have higher resolution than OTA NTSC (and could look better at 704x480 rather than 528x480).

Ron

Thanks, yeah that's what I figured. I'm not sure about FSN but obviously a channel like Cartoon Network (704x480) isn't delivered via broadcast.

Actually I am sure, FSN is not broadcast. Yet they squeeze it into 528x480 for channel "40" (but it was 704x on channel 410)

Hi All,

I subscribed to comcast HDTV servcie and received the moto STB today. Could anybody know how to change the STB output resolution from 720P to 1080i? On the STB remote control, there are a few buttons related with PIP, but nothing happened when I pressed either one of them. Do they suppose to work? TIA.

Hi All,

I subscribed to comcast HDTV servcie and received the moto STB today. Could anybody know how to change the STB output resolution from 720P to 1080i? On the STB remote control, there are a few buttons related with PIP, but nothing happened when I pressed either one of them. Do they suppose to work? TIA.
Turn off box and immediately press menu, change resolution, turn off and on.

Hello,

I do not have Comcast HD service and am using my QAM tuner to watch my local channels in HD. However, for some reason everytime KTVU goes to Fox network programming it blacks out. When it is KTVU programming (like the local news) I can see everything. What could be the problem?

Thanks

What's your QAM tuner?

What's your QAM tuner?

It is a Vizio 32 inc LCD TV with built in QAM tuner.

Tonight's FOX network broadcast started at 8:00 PM. I tuned to KTVU at 7:55 and when the network broadcast began I saw everything. Then I changed the channel then came back and it was black.

Nationally, Fox tends to have more than average DTV quirks, but I've not seen problems with our local affiliate using either style of the QAM tuners that I have (MyHD MDP-130 and various FusionHDTV units). From my own experience and the lack of other posts about Fox in this thread, I'm afraid that you've got a particularly fragile QAM tuner there.

Nationally, Fox tends to have more than average DTV quirks, but I've not seen problems with our local affiliate using either style of the QAM tuners that I have (MyHD MDP-130 and various FusionHDTV units). From my own experience and the lack of other posts about Fox in this thread, I'm afraid that you've got a particularly fragile QAM tuner there.

The weird part is that if I am tuned to Fox before it switches to network coverage the signal still comes in when the switch occurs. However, if I change the channel to Fox after the switch has already happened I get no signal.

Anyone have an idea?

I don't know much at all about TV tuner cards but my guess would be in the first case the card has locked onto the station's PSIP info and retains a lock and in the second case it can't find it.

Did you try rescanning channels during Fox primetime broadcasts?

Did you try rescanning channels during Fox primetime broadcasts?

Yes, when I rescan during primetime Fox goes away from my channel list.

I don't know much at all about TV tuner cards but my guess would be in the first case the card has locked onto the station's PSIP info and retains a lock and in the second case it can't find it.

It is not a tuner card, its a tuner in my tv.

Yes, when I rescan during primetime Fox goes away from my channel list.In that case, since you're using a consumer-grade DTV product, I suspect that KTVU would like to know about the problem so that they can "fix" their PSIP. I think that they have a contact email address on their website--unless Larry has a better idea...?

In that case, since you're using a consumer-grade DTV product, I suspect that KTVU would like to know about the problem so that they can "fix" their PSIP. I think that they have a contact email address on their website--unless Larry has a better idea...?

Is this really a KTVU problem or a comcast problem? I do not understand how if I start watching at 7:55 I can see the primetime broadcast that starts at 8, but if I tune in at 8:01 it is blacked out.

It could be either. I take it that you cannot check the OTA signal directly?

In any case, KTVU is directly affected and therefore should be interested in the situation, I'd think.

quick update;

cable guy just came, he fixed my hd reception problem - yoohoo!

he replaced the box, re-authorized it and removed all filters/splitters (even the one in the curb distro box)

Now I can smile, like the rest of you :D

called comcast and they had no clue what was up. they cannot send a technician to help me either becuase the problem starts after they stop working.

Have you checked to see if Vizio might have a firmware update for your display? Has this been going on since you've had the display?

Is this really a KTVU problem or a comcast problem? I do not understand how if I start watching at 7:55 I can see the primetime broadcast that starts at 8, but if I tune in at 8:01 it is blacked out.
Ryder1650,

This sounds like the same problem we had with KQED and ABC. When KQED would shift to the HD feed and shut down the SD feeds we were not able to view ABC HD. The problem was that they both road the same frequency and the shut off signal that KQED sent to shut off the Sd feeds also shut down ABC signal ( Comcast signal only ). The problem went away when ABC was moved off the KQED frequency. So check to see what's piggy backing with KTVU in your area and if they have multicasting channels.

Laters,
Mikef5

Mike--

I don't think that sharing the QAM rf channel has anything to do with this or your old problems. KTVU and KPIX are both on rf79 here and KPIX still shares rf117 with KQED, as was the case from the beginning of HD relaying here.

Far more likely is that there is a change in the PSIP, either from KTVU or as locally modified by Comcast, that's tripping up the Vizio.

It appears that the OnDemand upgrade got rid of the barkers. Their constant pitches usually at a higher volume than usual had to turn off a lot of OnDemand customers. Hope it stays that way.

Have you checked to see if Vizio might have a firmware update for your display? Has this been going on since you've had the display?

I just got the display a week ago. The part that confuses me the most is that if I am watching before the primetime broadcast begins I can see the HD feed once the primetime broadcast starts. But if I tune in after it starts I am blacked out.

Is anyone else experiencing an fm outage? I'm in Moraga and taped Cartalk this morning off KQED. The tape had nothing but hiss. I just checked and fm stations are not available.

I just got the display a week ago. The part that confuses me the most is that if I am watching before the primetime broadcast begins I can see the HD feed once the primetime broadcast starts. But if I tune in after it starts I am blacked out.

Based on what you said, it would be a PSIP problem, specifically in the channel table. A FOX station has a device in line and it reconfigures itself during a network feed. The configuration on that side probably has an issue. You would continue to watch the station as long as your set is tuned in because it does not need to re-read the channel table. When you switch away and go back, it must refresh the channel and it cannot lock back in. BUT...that would hold true if the majority of viewers were having an issue.

In this case, if you are only reporting the problem then more than likely it is in your set. If the Vizio is not fully ATSC compliant, then it could be reacting to a setting in the stream that it should be ignoring or translating differently. Vizio TV's are not upgradeable. I would take it back and stay away from the brand.

Is anyone else experiencing an fm outage? I'm in Moraga and taped Cartalk this morning off KQED. The tape had nothing but hiss. I just checked and fm stations are not available.

Was home during lunch and all looked well for me.

It appears that the OnDemand upgrade got rid of the barkers. Their constant pitches usually at a higher volume than usual had to turn off a lot of OnDemand customers. Hope it stays that way.
Arrgh! They're back. Why do they think this helps promote OnDemand?

Why...market research, of course. :D

Yes, Comcast's market research consists of calling two people, one of whom didn't even answer the phone. Just ask the folks that lost their FM signals awhile back.

ESPN2-HD is in my guide. But, when I attempt to watch it, I get the error message that it is a subscritpiuon service that I am not authorized to view. Is it on a special tier? Shouldn't it be available to all HD subs?

ESPN2-HD is in my guide. But, when I attempt to watch it, I get the error message that it is a subscritpiuon service that I am not authorized to view. Is it on a special tier? Shouldn't it be available to all HD subs?

If you already get the SD version of ESPN-2 then you should get the HD version as well.

ESPN-2 is a standard analog (and ADS) channel. So, I guess almost everybody should get it, if they have the appropriate equipment.

ESPN-2 is a standard analog (and ADS) channel. So, I guess almost everybody should get it, if they have the appropriate equipment.

if you get ESPNHD u should get ESPN2HD. have u tried both 724 and 725?

Yes, Comcast's market research consists of calling two people, one of whom didn't even answer the phone. Just ask the folks that lost their FM signals awhile back.
And the one that answered was deaf?

Based on what you said, it would be a PSIP problem, specifically in the channel table. A FOX station has a device in line and it reconfigures itself during a network feed. The configuration on that side probably has an issue. You would continue to watch the station as long as your set is tuned in because it does not need to re-read the channel table. When you switch away and go back, it must refresh the channel and it cannot lock back in. BUT...that would hold true is the majority of viewers were having an issue.

In this case, if you are only reporting the problem then more than likely it is in your set. If the Vizio is not fully ATSC compliant, then it could be reacting to a setting in the stream that it should be ignoring or translating differently. Vizio TV's are not upgradeable. I would take it back and stay away from the brand.

Good thing I got it at Costco...

if you get ESPNHD u should get ESPN2HD. have u tried both 724 and 725?
I never thought to try 725, as the EPG says it's on 724. It is indeed on 725. But, the guide info is on 724.

When I select 724, I get a "Not Authorized" message, and it asks me to press "info" to get ordering information. However, when I press "info", I get the info screen for channel 724 ESPN2-HD. But, no actual ESPN2-HD.

So, I decided to go back to the EPG and select 725. When I do, I get ESPN2-HD. The only reason I know it's ESPN2-HD is the logo bug in the corner. The Comcast info bar shows it as channel 725 "No Info Available".

Weird.

And the one that answered was deaf?
Correct. :D

I never thought to try 725, as the EPG says it's on 724. It is indeed on 725. But, the guide info is on 724.

When I select 724, I get a "Not Authorized" message, and it asks me to press "info" to get ordering information. However, when I press "info", I get the info screen for channel 724 ESPN2-HD. But, no actual ESPN2-HD.

So, I decided to go back to the EPG and select 725. When I do, I get ESPN2-HD. The only reason I know it's ESPN2-HD is the logo bug in the corner. The Comcast info bar shows it as channel 725 "No Info Available".

Weird.

well get it cleared up with comcast, because espn2HD won't be on 725 forever.

After much contemplation, I have decided to leave Comcast and give DirecTV a try. We pay the same amount of money in Santa Rosa for a FAR inferior service, and I'm tired of it! I just can't justify paying so much for so little. We are going with the Total Choice package plus high def which will end up costing us only $10 per month more than we were paying for "digital" cable and very limited high def.

Maybe if enough people bailed out up here Comcast would get their act together!

well get it cleared up with comcast, because espn2HD won't be on 725 forever.

Agreed, Comcast needs to fix this. 724 and 725 are on different frequencies. When 725 moves back to Special Events, like the NFL-HD Channel, Gary is going to lose The Duece.

That still doesn't tell me if it's a system-wide thing in SJ, or if it's unique to my receiver.

Gary, I know you have a 6412, or maybe a 3412, so I know you have a digital package. The best thing you can do is to call Comcast and ask them to reauthorize your DVR. That should fix it. You should get channel 724 just like the rest of us, that can get it, that is. You are not in a 500mhz area. If it is head end wide, then Comcast would know this, or needs to know this.

Thanks. I'll call them tonight. It's not really a biggie, except for the priniple of the thing. Otherwise, I'm sure I won't be watching too much Women's LaCrosse or the Dogs Playing Poker Championship.

Whenever I see the name ESPN2, especially when they call it "The Deuce" , I can't help but think of the movie Dodgeball, where the games were carried on ESPN8 "The Ocho".

After much contemplation, I have decided to leave Comcast and give DirecTV a try. We pay the same amount of money in Santa Rosa for a FAR inferior service, and I'm tired of it! I just can't justify paying so much for so little. We are going with the Total Choice package plus high def which will end up costing us only $10 per month more than we were paying for "digital" cable and very limited high def.

Maybe if enough people bailed out up here Comcast would get their act together!

Congrats on the switch, and you will get a much better lineup with D* than Comcast. However, if HDTV is a consideration, why not Dish Network? With a larger HD lineup, it was a no-brainer to sign up with Dish when I dropped Comcast a few months ago.

sort of off topic, but hopefully this will help those jumping to D*. if one subscribes the equivalent "spanish" package, they will pay $5 less than the english one. just a marketing thing, but hey, it will ave you $5 and end up costing toddhigg only $5 more per month that his prior expenses. i don't have the names handy, but if you look at the website, you'll see what i'm talking about. the only downside is you may get an occasional marketing phone call in espanol (i don't speak) but hey, $5/mo is not a bad savings...

After much contemplation, I have decided to leave Comcast and give DirecTV a try. We pay the same amount of money in Santa Rosa for a FAR inferior service, and I'm tired of it! I just can't justify paying so much for so little. We are going with the Total Choice package plus high def which will end up costing us only $10 per month more than we were paying for "digital" cable and very limited high def.

Maybe if enough people bailed out up here Comcast would get their act together!

Okay Noobie question for all you experts. I just got a sharp aquos 26" LCD HDTV. In the user manual it told me to connect the cable to the analog and digital input of the TV using a splitter from the cable jack off the wall. So I hooked everything up but the image seems to be worse then my normal TV that I have been using.

I was wondering is there a way that i need to hook it up so I get better picture? I doubt it's the setting of the LCD since I have the same setting playing a DVD and it's was fine.

I have the basic Comcast cable.

Okay Noobie question for all you experts. I just got a sharp aquos 26" LCD HDTV. In the user manual it told me to connect the cable to the analog and digital input of the TV using a splitter from the cable jack off the wall. So I hooked everything up but the image seems to be worse then my normal TV that I have been using.

I was wondering is there a way that i need to hook it up so I get better picture? I doubt it's the setting of the LCD since I have the same setting playing a DVD and it's was fine.

I have the basic Comcast cable.

Are you saying just the analog channels look bad? digital? HD? all of the above? When you say "worse then my normal TV" do you see macro blocking? snow? What's the picture quality like if you remove the splitter and send it directly to one of the tuners that has the problem?

Okay Noobie question for all you experts. I just got a sharp aquos 26" LCD HDTV. In the user manual it told me to connect the cable to the analog and digital input of the TV using a splitter from the cable jack off the wall. So I hooked everything up but the image seems to be worse then my normal TV that I have been using.

I have the basic Comcast cable. If you have basic Comcast cable (no set-top box) what you are almost certainly seeing is simply a very good monitor displaying a very bad picture, so you're now seeing all the flaws in standard analog TV which your old TV didn't show. You'll need to get a cable set-top box (assuming your TV doesn't have CableCard support) or an over-the-air antenna (assuming you live in reception range from the tower) in order to see HD pictures your TV was designed for.

- Talk

setting up an indoor antenna (i know outdoor is the way to go)

here is what i got so far
my zip 94510
my ant Zenith Silver Sensor
my proximity to transmitter 20-25 miles from Sutro Tower (can actually see it on clear days from yard)

here are my two questions...
1. what is "primary and secondary local zip codes", are these my location or the location of the transmitter?

and here is #2, do i need to use an amplifier?

here is what i've done so far...

i hooked up the antenna went through the on screen menu, searched for channels, added the new found channels to the directv guide.... i see all of the channels listed but i have no signal..... i put my zip code as the "primary" i think that is where i maight have gone wrong(or at least one place"


any comments/suggestions are greatly appreciated


if more info is needed tell me what you need to know

setting up an...antenna....

if more info is needed tell me what you need to knowYeah...why are you posting this question in the Comcast thread...?

Are you saying just the analog channels look bad? digital? HD? all of the above? When you say "worse then my normal TV" do you see macro blocking? snow? What's the picture quality like if you remove the splitter and send it directly to one of the tuners that has the problem?

Which are the HD channels?. I thought ABC is HD. When I say worse meaning there are some snow and the picture quality doesn't seem to be better with a direct feed from the outlet.

It doesn't seem to make too much of a difference when I put the 2 cables into the TV as instructed by the user meun. I can have the the calbe into the analog inlet of the TV and the quality is the same.

Yeah...why are you posting this question in the Comcast thread...?
oops another rookie move on my part... i'l be leaving now lol

If you have basic Comcast cable (no set-top box) what you are almost certainly seeing is simply a very good monitor displaying a very bad picture, so you're now seeing all the flaws in standard analog TV which your old TV didn't show. You'll need to get a cable set-top box (assuming your TV doesn't have CableCard support) or an over-the-air antenna (assuming you live in reception range from the tower) in order to see HD pictures your TV was designed for.

- Talk


A set-top box. Assume that this is an additional item to my monthly cable bill?

Which are the HD channels?. I thought ABC is HD. When I say worse meaning there are some snow and the picture quality doesn't seem to be better with a direct feed from the outlet.

It doesn't seem to make too much of a difference when I put the 2 cables into the TV as instructed by the user meun. I can have the the calbe into the analog inlet of the TV and the quality is the same.If you see "snow" you must be viewing NTSC (analog) cable. There's no analog HD. Does your TV have a QAM tuner? If so, make sure that you have that hooked up to your cable (as directly to the cable feed into the house as possible) and do a channel scan. You should then be presented with a list of channels including some labeled something like "2-1", "5-1", "7-1", "7-2", "7-3", and "9-1" to "9-5". Those are your "free" OTA DTV channels carried by Comcast because they must. All of the ones with a "-1" are transmitted in HD all of the time, but much of the day they don't contain actual HD programming. Look at them during primetime to see HDTV shows.

If your TV doesn't have a QAM tuner, you'll need either to get a STB/cablecard or an outdoor antenna to receive actual DTV signals.

Which are the HD channels?. I thought ABC is HD. When I say worse meaning there are some snow and the picture quality doesn't seem to be better with a direct feed from the outlet.

It doesn't seem to make too much of a difference when I put the 2 cables into the TV as instructed by the user meun. I can have the the calbe into the analog inlet of the TV and the quality is the same.

Ahhh...you're probably watching the SD channels. Snow would indicate problems with an analog feed. You would see macroblocking with a digital feed. It sounds like you may be an HD newbie so pardon my response if it sounds elementary. The high definition version of channels are broadcast on separate channels/frequencies from the analog, standard definition version. I don't have a built-in tuner so I couldn't tell you the exact frequencies (I'm sure someone else can though) but on the Comcast STB, the SD version of ABC is on channel 7 and the HD version is on 707. You're probably looking at the SD version of channel -- that's why it looks so bad. What you need to do is switch to the digital tuner on your TV and do a scan (there should be something in your TV's manual on how to do this). If all goes well, you should pick up FOX-HD, CBS-HD, ABC-HD, and PBS-HD. If you're in an area where digital simulcasting is going on, you may also be able to pick up the digital versions of the SD channels. If not, you'll have to switch to your analog tuner in order to see these.

Edit: TPeterson's post and mine got crossed. What he said is true. I believe most Aquos TV's have QAM tuners.

Maybe someone can answer this question. Since he only has basic cable, does Comcast put filters on the line to block all channels except the first 30 analog channels? If they didn't, how are analog channels 30-100 blocked?

Maybe someone can answer this question. Since he only has basic cable, does Comcast put filters on the line to block all channels except the first 30 analog channels? If they didn't, how are analog channels 30-100 blocked?

The filter that they use blocks roughly the analog channel range. Here in Sacramento, I have limited basic with internet, and have all channels up to 30, then blocked from 30-73ish. I have the higher frequency unencrypted digital channels show up on my QAM tuner, up to the highest channel on our system.

Well, woke up this morning and there's a new channel for us in the ghetto, channel 199. Boy, is it a useful channel ? one with HD ?? no, it's a news channel called TV50 and from the looks of it it's not even in the Bay Area. So we get this piece of trash channel but they can't give us ESPN2-HD or even the darn VIDEO ON DEMAND that everyone else in the Bay Area gets. Heck I'd take anything else but a news channel even Kron-4, which is suppose to go to MyTv in September, think we'll get that ???
Why do I care, I'll be gone after the baseball season is over ?? Because Comcast is still not treating all of their areas the same and piddling away bandwidth that we suppositively don't have enough of to even do a partial upgrade for our area. Comcast is worried that AT&T will cherry pick areas for upgrading and only providing service to wealthy areas, sort of like the pot calling the kettle black don't your think Comcast ??

Laters,
Mikef5

Well, woke up this morning and there's a new channel for us in the ghetto, channel 199. Boy, is it a useful channel ? one with HD ?? no, it's a news channel called TV50 and from the looks of it it's not even in the Bay Area. So we get this piece of trash channel but they can't give us ESPN2-HD or even the darn VIDEO ON DEMAND that everyone else in the Bay Area gets. Heck I'd take anything else but a news channel even Kron-4, which is suppose to go to MyTv in September, think we'll get that ???
Why do I care, I'll be gone after the baseball season is over ?? Because Comcast is still not treating all of their areas the same and piddling away bandwidth that we suppositively don't have enough of to even do a partial upgrade for our area. Comcast is worried that AT&T will cherry pick areas for upgrading and only providing service to wealthy areas, sort of like the pot calling the kettle black don't your think Comcast ??

Laters,
Mikef5
Is it the Santa Rosa channel 50? KFTY? I'll check in a bit to see if we have it but I'm pretty sure that's what our local TV station calls itself.

Well, here we have KFTY TV50 on 199 and also on 10. It looks to be our first digital simulcast channel. :p

Why on earth they would have that channel way down where you're at is beyond me, it is very Sonoma County specific. Used to be owned by the guy that owned Korbel Vineyards.

KFTY is owned by Clear Channel Broadcasting. I'm willing to bet that is why they put it up on digital.

KFTY is owned by Clear Channel Broadcasting. I'm willing to bet that is why they put it up on digital.
It's on both analog and digital up here, probably to appease the local hoi polloi who wouldn't know digital from a Dodge Dart.

You know if I was on a 750 MHz or greater area, this wouldn't bother me in the least but I'm not, So Comcast quit wasting bandwidth and upgrade ALL your areas to the same levels of service and programing.

Laters,
Mikef5

It's on both analog and digital up here, probably to appease the local hoi polloi who wouldn't know digital from a Dodge Dart.
You have it on ANALOG too ??? Boy, Santa Rosa is in worse shape than SaraMilgatos with bandwidth issues and they pi** away your bandwidth with this ???
Baseball season is way to long..... :eek: :p

Laters,
Mikef5

You have it on ANALOG too ??? Boy, Santa Rosa is in worse shape than SaraMilgatos with bandwidth issues and they pi** away your bandwidth with this ???
Baseball season is way to long..... :eek: :p

Laters,
Mikef5
All I can do is laugh at this point, my blood pressure is more important to me than what the jerks at Comcast are doing.

Check out this little bit of info from scanpa in the recorder thread,

They have dropped /\/\otorola. The DCT-700, and the DCT-3412p1 & p2 are the last purchase that will hapen between Comcast & /\/\otorola.

Panasonic is now the maker of all HD & HD DVR STB.

another company will be building the NON HD STB...


Comcast still has 2 years left in the deal with SA for there non HD and HD & HD DVR STB.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8080112#post8080112
New moto 6412 with HDMI and SATA - AVS Forum

So I guess that means another 100 years before anything changes since Comcast will have to swap out head-end equipment to facilitate Panasonic STBs. More likely though, we'll just be using antiquated equipment out here for awhile. Get those paper clips and bubblegum ready. :D

I guess Comcast feels they are throwing us (550 Mhz areas) a bone by giving us channels like TV50 and Jewelry TV just to say they are adding new programming. What really burns me is they advertise advanced services like On Demand and HDTV in my area (San Lorenzo, Hayward) by putting up big bill-boards highlighting the benefits of these services when in reality they don’t offer them here.

The average consumer in my area has no idea of what Comcast is doing to them, but I’ve decided that I’m not going to sit-back and let these guys coast any longer. I’d like to encourage everyone stuck on a 550 Mhz area to contact their local newspapers and explain what is happening. I’ve listed a few editorial contacts from local media outlets below, if you’d like to drop them a note.

Maybe some heat from these outlets will push Comcast into action.

San Francisco Chronicle
Ken Howe
Business Editor
khowe@sfchronicle.com

San Jose Mercury News
Jon Fortt
Assistant Business Editor, consumer affairs
jfortt@mercurynews.com

ANG Newspaper Group/Oakland Tribune/Daily Review
Mark Stafforini
Business Editor
mstafforini@angnewspapers.com

KGO-TV
Michael Finney
Consumer Reporter
michael.finney@abc.com

So I guess that means another 100 years before anything changes since Comcast will have to swap out head-end equipment to facilitate Panasonic STBs. More likely though, we'll just be using antiquated equipment out here for awhile. Get those paper clips and bubblegum ready.

Actually, I don't think they'll have to change out head end or anything in the system. You just tell Panasonic this is what our system is and work within that system so Panasonic just makes a STB that will work with Comcasts system the way it is now. Just guessing but it would make sense to me. I still say baseball season is way to long this season :)

Laters,
Mikef5

Actually, I don't think they'll have to change out head end or anything in the system. You just tell Panasonic this is what our system is and work within that system so Panasonic just makes a STB that will work with Comcasts system the way it is now. Just guessing but it would make sense to me. I still say baseball season is way to long this season :)

Laters,
Mikef5
scanpa revised his post. Apparently all Comcast systems will be upgraded to the OCAP standard which means almost anything will work. In theory anyway...of course that just means even longer before that upgrade is done.

D-Real,
Thanks for the links and I would suggest to everyone in the 550 MHz and below areas to email each and everyone of these people. The more negative exposure that Comcast gets the more it will get them off their duffs and do the right thing and upgrade ALL areas to the same level.... I know it sounds like a broken record but if you don't complain you deserve what you are getting and right now we are getting nothing and paying the same or more than the rest of the areas are. I would go with Michael Finney first, he does a good 7 On Your Side program.

Laters,
Mikef5

Since the channel guide for channel 199 says to be announced ( they have been showing paid programing all morning ) I went to their web site http://www.kfty.com/ . Boy, do they have compelling programing :confused: :rolleyes: and yes it's located in Santa Rosa and is owned by Clear Channel, who ever they are. Great addition to our lineup.... NOT

Laters,
Mikef5

You forgot the ":p" after "whoever they are". :D

The filter that they use blocks roughly the analog channel range. Here in Sacramento, I have limited basic with internet, and have all channels up to 30, then blocked from 30-73ish. I have the higher frequency unencrypted digital channels show up on my QAM tuner, up to the highest channel on our system.
Are you on an ads system? Do they currently filter the digital channels on ads when you are a basic subscriber?

You forgot the ":p" after "whoever they are". :D
Do you think I did it on purpose or did I do it by accident ....??? :eek: :p :D

Laters,
Mikef5

scanpa revised his post. Apparently all Comcast systems will be upgraded to the OCAP standard which means almost anything will work. In theory anyway...of course that just means even longer before that upgrade is done.
ALL SYSTEMS will be upgraded or those that Comcast deems cost effective enough to upgrade ??? :rolleyes: :p

Laters,
Mikef5

I was just scrolling online through the programming schedule for our hot new channel addition, KFTY 50 and noticed that from 1:30-4:00 a.m. they show Jewelry TV. Unbelievable, now we have two channels that broadcast this terrible content. Why couldn’t Comcast just add a Travel Channel, NFL Network or something that folks might actually want to see?

scanpa revised his post. Apparently all Comcast systems will be upgraded to the OCAP standard which means almost anything will work. In theory anyway...of course that just means even longer before that upgrade is done.

This is actually great news. If Comcast does in fact upgrade to OCAP-compliant head-ends, this means we may not have to use their crappy DVR at all (Moto or Panasonic). In theory, everything from IPG to OnDemand to Home Networking is covered by the standard. So if a consumer electronics company wants to make a DVR, they know it will work with all of the providers...regardless of who it is (as long as both parties are OCAP-compliant).

OMG, they've taken away channel 199, I'm crushed, now we don't even deserve that useless channel any more :eek: . OK, I'm not really crushed but how about doing something for the 550 MHz areas Comcast ???? I'm tired of being treated like a red-headed stepchild, at least give us ESPN2-HD like the rest of your children have ;)

Laters,
Mikef5

This is actually great news. If Comcast does in fact upgrade to OCAP-compliant head-ends, this means we may not have to use their crappy DVR at all (Moto or Panasonic). In theory, everything from IPG to OnDemand to Home Networking is covered by the standard. So if a consumer electronics company wants to make a DVR, they know it will work with all of the providers...regardless of who it is (as long as both parties are OCAP-compliant).
I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Do you remember the promise of the Cable Cards and how that would be the greatest thing since peanut butter and jelly sandwiches ??? Look at all the problems with that. It still sticks to the roof of my mouth :) Now if they hold everyone to the same strict standards with no deviations from those specs then it's a great thing and could help alot getting other vendors into the market for cable products but they ( Comcast ) have to do a better job on it than they did with the Cable Cards.

Laters,
Mikef5

So I guess that means another 100 years before anything changes since Comcast will have to swap out head-end equipment to facilitate Panasonic STBs.Not necessarily. As part of their billion-dollar deal with Motorola, Comcast gained the ability to provide Digicipher conditional access technologies to several other STB vendors. I believe Panasonic is one of these.

- Talk

D-Real,
Thanks for the links and I would suggest to everyone in the 550 MHz and below areas to email each and everyone of these people. The more negative exposure that Comcast gets the more it will get them off their duffs and do the right thing and upgrade ALL areas to the same level.... I know it sounds like a broken record but if you don't complain you deserve what you are getting and right now we are getting nothing and paying the same or more than the rest of the areas are. I would go with Michael Finney first, he does a good 7 On Your Side program.

Laters,
Mikef5
And while you're e-mialing and notifying, tell them you're switching to E* like I have.

You know it just dawned on me about this loss of channel 199. Would someone outside of the 550 MHz area check to see if channel 199 ( KFTY 50 ) is still available on your system. If they did what I think they did my blood pressure will hit the roof. TIA

Laters,
Mikef5

Are you on an ads system? Do they currently filter the digital channels on ads when you are a basic subscriber?

Sacramento hasn't gone ADS yet. Supposedly sometime around the first of the year. The local channels that are being digital simulcast are available. Until a cable channel goes digital simulcast, I'm not sure what we will get.

199 is still alive in the North Bay. I just checked it. BTW, I notice it is also 64 QAM, not 256. WTF are they doing?

199 is still alive in the North Bay. I just checked it. BTW, I notice it is also 64 QAM, not 256. WTF are they doing?
Both analog 10 and digital 199 are still KFTY up here, 199 is 256QAM though.

For the life of me I cannot imagine why they would put this channel on both analog and digital, unless....they were getting ready to take it off analog...that would be the ONLY reason that would make sense...but of course, I won't be holding my breath waiting for INHD/FSNBA-HD to show up.....

Searched but couldn't find it

Which channel is the Comcast test pattern channel?
and what time of the day?

Thx

199 is still alive here West Bay (Redwood Shores). I am showing 256 QAM.

I'm in Sunnyvale (just north of Fremont Ave near Mary). I don't have digital yet. How do I find out if I'm in a 550MHz or 750MHz area?

Searched but couldn't find it

Which channel is the Comcast test pattern channel?
and what time of the day?

Thx
There isn't any such channel as far as I know. At least not accessible by a user.

Well, from the responses I've gotten so far it looks like it was put on all the areas until someone in the 550 MHz area complained ( ME ). Now it looks like again the 550 MHz areas are getting the short end of the straw, not that I want the channel but it proves that there is more bandwidth than Comcast is owning up to on the 550 MHz areas since it was on my loop for most of the morning. Care to explain why Comcast ??? Why don't you just upgrade the system so everyone is on the same level and I don't want to hear " not cost effective enough ". You are suppose to supply your service to the whole Bay Area not just those that will make you a profit, that's like red lining in my book the same thing you accuse AT&T of possibly doing . How about coming out with an official Comcast plan on what you are going to do with the 550 MHz areas and when you are going to do it and make it public ??? I know Comcast reads the forum, that's why the channel was taken off the 550 MHz systems. So before the baseball season ends and I finally leave Comcast how about an answer and I mean a public one.
NOT A HAPPY CAMPER :mad:

Laters,
Mikef5

Mike, did you have the channel duplicated in the analog range, as it is up here?

The only thing that makes sense is Comcast is moving stuff to digital from analog, but who knows how long it will be before the analog version is removed. I can't see that happening in this area very soon as that's the "Santa Rosa" TV station and if folks couldn't see it because it was no longer on analog the natives will certainly bang their drums--something that Comcast is allergic to. :p

I wouldn't hold my breath on that one. Do you remember the promise of the Cable Cards and how that would be the greatest thing since peanut butter and jelly sandwiches ??? Look at all the problems with that. It still sticks to the roof of my mouth :) Now if they hold everyone to the same strict standards with no deviations from those specs then it's a great thing and could help alot getting other vendors into the market for cable products but they ( Comcast ) have to do a better job on it than they did with the Cable Cards.

Laters,
Mikef5

That's why I said "in theory" :D. I'm more optimisic about OCAP then the CableCARD even though CableLabs is spearheading the OCAP effort. The main drawbacks of the CableCARD was the lack of 2-way communication and the lack of standards. OCAP takes care of that. There's some really good info here (http://www.ctam.com/ocap/) .

Mike, did you have the channel duplicated in the analog range, as it is up here?
No if they had done that I'd been on the phone in a micro second, put an analog station on our bandwidth starved system, they had better not even think of it. :)
The thing is I knew this channel was coming. I got a message on the box that announced the channel was going to be added so I waited to see if it really was going to be added and lo and behold it was. They can add these useless channels but can't give us the thing they advertise the most, Video On Demand, and why ?? not enough bandwidth. Can't add ESPN2-HD ?? why ?? not enough bandwidth but because you are not cost effective we are not going to upgrade your area so you can get those programs like the rest of the Bay Area. So I'm still an unhappy camper waiting for baseball season to end. Can't imagine that it could be worse on Dish but we'll soon find out.

Laters,
Mikef5

That's why I said "in theory" :D. I'm more optimisic about OCAP then the CableCARD even though CableLabs is spearheading the OCAP effort. The main drawbacks of the CableCARD was the lack of 2-way communication and the lack of standards. OCAP takes care of that. There's some really good info here (http://www.ctam.com/ocap/) .
Thanks for the link and I agree, the problem is having a standard that they all stick with and not add or take out what they want sort of like what Apple does with it's computers. They have a standard that anyone that wants to make a product for them has to follow, and there is no exceptions to it. Sort of like, our way or the highway attitude, that's why almost all of their stuff is truely plug and play and not plug and pray like the windows machines.

Laters,
Mikef5

Okay, that makes sense, it probably wasn't supposed to be on your system anyways as the channel is basically a north bay thing, focusing on Sonoma County.

Thanks for the link and I agree, the problem is having a standard that they all stick with and not add or take out what they want sort of like what Apple does with it's computers. They have a standard that anyone that wants to make a product for them has to follow, and there is no exceptions to it. Sort of like, our way or the highway attitude, that's why almost all of their stuff is truely plug and play and not plug and pray like the windows machines.

Laters,
Mikef5
Those Apple/Mac commercials are great aren't they, right on the money? :D

Those Apple/Mac commercials are great aren't they, right on the money? :D
What's really funny is that both camps are pi**ed at the commercials. It shows the Apple guy being a total geek and the IBM guy a total loser kind of guy but they are hilarious, good thing I have both :p I like the hedge my bets :)

Laters,
Mikef5

Okay, that makes sense, it probably wasn't supposed to be on your system anyways as the channel is basically a north bay thing, focusing on Sonoma County.
The thing is it's on other systems in the Bay Area other than just the north bay and why announce it coming on the box since the messages are area specific, except I do remember getting a job offer for New Jersey.... forget about it !!! :p :D

Laters,
Mikef5

On the subject of CableCARDs, it looks like Time Warner is refusing to give cards to people beta testing the Tivo Series 3. I sure hope Comcast doesn't take this stance...

http://www.consumerfury.com/twcraleigh072506.aspx

Thanks for the link and I agree, the problem is having a standard that they all stick with and not add or take out what they wantOCAP should be a good bet. It's been worked on for years, it's based on another standard (Multimedia Home Platform, or MHP) which is used worldwide, and is also related to the interactivity platform for Blu-ray Disc. The cable and CE industries have filed with the FCC that OCAP should be a standard part of the iDCR (interactive Digital Cable Ready) standard, so it could be built into most TV's a few years from now. There are also strict compatibility requirements, so you shouldn't see much in the way of varying configurations.

- Talk

On the subject of CableCARDs, it looks like Time Warner is refusing to give cards to people beta testing the Tivo Series 3. I sure hope Comcast doesn't take this stance...

http://www.consumerfury.com/twcraleigh072506.aspx
I think the TWC CSR is wrong in his interpretation of what is required by the cable company. They don't have to provide tech support or service support but they do have to provision the cable cards to be useable on their system, which is clearly stated in the regulation that was provided. So they do have to make the cards available and useable on their system they just don't have to provide tech support for them. So Fender do you still have that warm and cozy feeling about the new OCAP software that they are thinking of implementing ??? If this is any indication of things to come then one must wonder...

Laters,
Mikef5

So Fender do you still have that warm and cozy feeling about the new OCAP software that they are thinking of implementing ??? If this is any indication of things to come then one must wonder...

Laters,
Mikef5

Hahaha!! :D I actually do. The main reason why MSO's have been reluctant to provide support for CableCARD is because it's one-way stream technology. That means no OnDemand, Pay-Per-View, ads in the IPG, etc. The OCAP spec allows for MSO's to send these interactive features in their own format in which the OCAP middleware will translate it into something your device can handle and display. Everyone's happy. Okay, maybe I'm being a little too optimistic but I really do think this can be a win/win for everyone. TWC (or any MSO) doesn't make very much money off the DVR -- if any at all. It takes them 2+ years just to recoup the costs of the hardware and by that time they have to buy a whole bunch more. They really want you to have the STB for the ads and OnDemand (I know Comcast doesn't charge for this buy many MSOs do).

Hahaha!! :D I actually do. The main reason why MSO's have been reluctant to provide support for CableCARD is because it's one-way stream technology. That means no OnDemand, Pay-Per-View, ads in the IPG, etc. The OCAP spec allows for MSO's to send these interactive features in their own format in which the OCAP middleware will translate it into something your device can handle and display. Everyone's happy. Okay, maybe I'm being a little too optimistic but I really do think this can be a win/win for everyone. TWC (or any MSO) doesn't make very much money off the DVR -- if any at all. It takes them 2+ years just to recoup the costs of the hardware and by that time they have to buy a whole bunch more. They really want you to have the STB for the ads and OnDemand (I know Comcast doesn't charge for this buy many MSOs do).
Fender, I'm with you 100% but with the track record that cable companies have I tend to be on the more pessimistic side of things. I really do hope this does work out because there is a whole lot that they could do with that software some of which I have heard of that Comcast has planned for it and it sounds great. The problem is with the bandwidth problem we have in our area, it just doesn't matter what they do until they upgrade the system so we all can enjoy the same things ( you had to know I'd go there again :) ).
Just give me what everyone else in the Bay Area has and I'll be happy. That's what I pay for and that's what I expect, to be treated equally and fairly.

Laters,
Mikef5

No if they had done that I'd been on the phone in a micro second, put an analog station on our bandwidth starved system, they had better not even think of it. :)
The thing is I knew this channel was coming. I got a message on the box that announced the channel was going to be added so I waited to see if it really was going to be added and lo and behold it was. They can add these useless channels but can't give us the thing they advertise the most, Video On Demand, and why ?? not enough bandwidth. Can't add ESPN2-HD ?? why ?? not enough bandwidth but because you are not cost effective we are not going to upgrade your area so you can get those programs like the rest of the Bay Area. So I'm still an unhappy camper waiting for baseball season to end. Can't imagine that it could be worse on Dish but we'll soon find out.

Laters,
Mikef5
I didn't even get FSN-HD, switching to Dish with their new offer was a no brainer. Plus I'll be getting FSN-HD in time for the Sharks. Once that happens I don't know why anyone who cares about HD and overall picture quality wouldn't go to Dish. Gee, do I sound bitter? You bet. I'm still getting hosed for their internet because I can't get DSL. Like Dish, as soon as there is an alternative, I'm gone.

I think the TWC CSR is wrong in his interpretation of what is required by the cable company. They don't have to provide tech support or service support but they do have to provision the cable cards to be useable on their system, which is clearly stated in the regulation that was provided. So they do have to make the cards available and useable on their system they just don't have to provide tech support for them.I agree with your interpretation. I have contacts in TWC's executive offices, I've emailed one of them to alert him to the situation. Will report here if I hear anything of interest.

- Talk

I agree with your interpretation. I have contacts in TWC's executive offices, I've emailed one of them to alert him to the situation. Will report here if I hear anything of interest.

- Talk

It will be interesting to see if it's really TWC's policy or if it's a rogue CSR rep.

The filter that they use blocks roughly the analog channel range. Here in Sacramento, I have limited basic with internet, and have all channels up to 30, then blocked from 30-73ish. I have the higher frequency unencrypted digital channels show up on my QAM tuner, up to the highest channel on our system.


Which QAM tuner do you use and what channels do you get?

TWC (or any MSO) doesn't make very much money off the DVR -- if any at all. It takes them 2+ years just to recoup the costs of the hardware and by that time they have to buy a whole bunch more.
It takes way less time than that. When you realize that to have the DVR you need to subscribe to Expanded Basic and Digital Classic just to qualify for the DVR it actually costs you about $45 a month(Expanded Basic-$25 Digital Classic-$10 and the DVR-$10). Remember that Expanded Basic and Digital Classic are already being piped down the line whether you subscribe to them or not, it's just a matter of removing a filter and/or authorizing the STB on the digital channels.

My rough estimation is that the Comcast DVR cost the sub around $500 a year. As we noted earlier, a dual CC enabled TiVo looks way more attractive, even given the initial cost.

I'm in Sunnyvale (just north of Fremont Ave near Mary). I don't have digital yet. How do I find out if I'm in a 550MHz or 750MHz area?

I'm not too far from where you are, and it's 550MHz where I am. So I would assume that you're in the Comcast slums, as well. Just check your guide. Does it show any of the following channels: 720, 724, 732, 734, or 736? If not, then you're definitely part of the SunnySaraMilGatos bandwidth starved areas.

It takes way less time than that. When you realize that to have the DVR you need to subscribe to Expanded Basic and Digital Classic just to qualify for the DVR it actually costs you about $45 a month(Expanded Basic-$25 Digital Classic-$10 and the DVR-$10). Remember that Expanded Basic and Digital Classic are already being piped down the line whether you subscribe to them or not, it's just a matter of removing a filter and/or authorizing the STB on the digital channels.

My rough estimation is that the Comcast DVR cost the sub around $500 a year. As we noted earlier, a dual CC enabled TiVo looks way more attractive, even given the initial cost.

I understand what your saying. I wonder how many people actually up their tier just to get the DVR? I would think that most people who would want the DVR already subscribe to some form of digital cable. I could be wrong though. But I do agree...getting a Series 3 does look attractive. I wonder what the differences will be between getting an actual Series 3 Tivo or using the Tivo software on a Moto box. Have any of the beta testers (both Comcast and Series 3) leaked any info? Just getting rid of the "remote delay" issue is enough for me.

I'm in Sunnyvale (just north of Fremont Ave near Mary). I don't have digital yet. How do I find out if I'm in a 550MHz or 750MHz area?


Its hard to tell if you dont have a digital box (I dont have the analog lineup handy to compare). But I know somebody at Mary and Knickerbocker and that whole area is 550Mhz...I'm pretty sure you are the same :(

I'm in Sunnyvale (just north of Fremont Ave near Mary). I don't have digital yet. How do I find out if I'm in a 550MHz or 750MHz area?
The easiest way to determine if you are in a 550 MHz area is to use http://titantv.com and look at the lineup for Comcast Digital Premium channels for your zip code. Usually if you are in a 550 MHz area, you will be missing several movie channels and the INHD channels.

The easiest way to determine if you are in a 550 MHz area is to use http://titantv.com and look at the lineup for Comcast Digital Premium channels for your zip code. Usually if you are in a 550 MHz area, you will be missing several movie channels and the INHD channels.

Comcast has both 550Mhz and 750Mhz in his zipcode so its hard to tell from Titan. And since he doesnt have a digital box he cant check to see if he has ch719/720 etc...(other than go check with a neighbor that has comcrap digital)

Should be able to go the local office and get a channel lineup card. Those should be accurate as of at least the first of the year.

better to save the hassle and just call dish to switch...

I'm 99% that area is still the really old 550 part of sunnyvale (that doesnt even have IN/FSNHD)...you know even worse than saramilgatos...almost as bad as the santa rosa slumcast

BTW, as an FYI, the Dish local HD has improved a lot in the last week or so over what they looked like when I first got them. Still not quite as good as Comcast, but getting very close, I'd say they're just about at the "good enough" point--which will be different for different people of course, personally, I think we've seen the best HD PQ already and I have my doubts that it will improve, more likely it will just get worse as stations try to increase their revenue per bit by multicasting.

Also of note to 550'ers, DirecTV has KRON-HD on board now-the KRON channel that was showing the HDNet stuff-KRON is the MyNetwork affiliate for the SF market. This makes me optimistic that both DirecTV and Dish will carry KBCW-HD very soon as well, the CW station for the SF market--a station that Comcast does not carry on any bay area system, and most likely would have to do something radical to get it on 550 systems.

As it stands right now, 550 systems will not have either of those two networks come fall season. MyNetwork(KRON) is 100% HD prime time programming and KBCW is around 95% IIRC.

Expanded Basic-$25 Digital Classic-$10 and the DVR-$10). Remember that Expanded Basic and Digital Classic are already being piped down the line whether you subscribe to them or not, it's just a matter of removing a filter and/or authorizing the STB on the digital channels.

My rough estimation is that the Comcast DVR cost the sub around $500 a year.

You don't need digital classic, I have the DVR for $10 + $5 digital box fee. Digital classic includes the digital box fee, so net $5/more. I don't watch those channels so I didn't get it. That $500/more figure is assuming people wouldn't be subscribing to expanded basic if they didn't want the DVR. I don't think that's realistic at all. I would assume that the vast, vast majority of people with DVRs do like channels like ESPN/TNT/TBS/USA/FX/DSCV/CNN/MTV etc., and wouldn't have been subscribing to just limited basic cable before getting a DVR. $180-240/year more for DVR is a more reasonable figure.

The Tivo is undoubtedly going to be an expensive solution with the upfront cost, Tivo fee, and cablecard rental fees (I assume cablecard fees might be as much as $12-15/month since you'd need two of them, Comcast kills you on "additional digital outlet" fees). I'm desperate for more storage though & may have to cough up for this.

No if they had done that I'd been on the phone in a micro second, put an analog station on our bandwidth starved system, they had better not even think of it. :)
Laters,
Mikef5Channel 10 here is KFTY TV50 (UHF 50) and has been since forever (like, the first cable system installed in about 1977)?

What's on your channel 10?

As for the DVR, I downgraded from Digital Silver with HBO (sucks) to Classic, added the DVR (and kept the other HD box 6200 for the bedroom) and ended up paying like $2 LESS / mo.

That still doesn't tell me if it's a system-wide thing in SJ, or if it's unique to my receiver.
I have the same thing in San Jose 95124. I called Comcast a couple of days ago. The CSR was very polite, but puzzled and unable to do anything about this. He told me that he will escalate the issue. I don't have much faith in the follow-up though... :(

You don't need digital classic, I have the DVR for $10 + $5 digital box fee. Digital classic includes the digital box fee, so net $5/more. I don't watch those channels so I didn't get it. That $500/more figure is assuming people wouldn't be subscribing to expanded basic if they didn't want the DVR. I don't think that's realistic at all. I would assume that the vast, vast majority of people with DVRs do like channels like ESPN/TNT/TBS/USA/FX/DSCV/CNN/MTV etc., and wouldn't have been subscribing to just limited basic cable before getting a DVR. $180-240/year more for DVR is a more reasonable figure.

The Tivo is undoubtedly going to be an expensive solution with the upfront cost, Tivo fee, and cablecard rental fees (I assume cablecard fees might be as much as $12-15/month since you'd need two of them, Comcast kills you on "additional digital outlet" fees). I'm desperate for more storage though & may have to cough up for this.
I suppose I'm a rare case as the only channels I care about are the HD ones, all that analog, all that digital, just increases my monthly bill in order to have the HD-DVR.

Give me Limited Basic with the HD-DVR and Comcast would be my heroes. They do it in Boston, why the hell can't they do it here? I'll tell you why, because they can get away with charging what they do here, same way they get away with redlining 550 areas with regards to services and channel offerings.

Until/if the HD viewer because a much larger market force(practically zilch currently) Comcast will continue things business as usual since the HD viewer is pretty much meaningless to their bottom line. Can't fault the business sense behind that, but we can sure complain about it.

Channel 10 here is KFTY TV50 (UHF 50) and has been since forever (like, the first cable system installed in about 1977)?

What's on your channel 10?

As for the DVR, I downgraded from Digital Silver with HBO (sucks) to Classic, added the DVR (and kept the other HD box 6200 for the bedroom) and ended up paying like $2 LESS / mo.

KTEH is on channel 10 in Fremont. Actually KTEH uses UHF 50 for its DT and UHF 54 for its analog OTA so it cancels out KFTY.

Comcast's analog lineups are very localized

Regarding the soon-to-be-released Series 3 Tivo, has anyone spoken with a CSR about supporting install of two CableCARDs on the unit? I just exchanged email with a CSR who said that Comcast would not support such an install. If that is in fact Comcast's policy, that would be extremely bad news.

Thanks for any input.
John

Regarding the soon-to-be-released Series 3 Tivo, has anyone spoken with a CSR about supporting install of two CableCARDs on the unit? I just exchanged email with a CSR who said that Comcast would not support such an install. If that is in fact Comcast's policy, that would be extremely bad news.

Thanks for any input.
John

Supporting it and getting it to work are 2 different things. I don't think anyone is expecting them to support the use of the Series 3 Tivo but they should give you the necessary equipment to get it to work (unlike TWC). Because it's still in beta, it doesn't surprise me that the MSO's don't have their act together. Once the Tivo is actually released, then I'll start getting worried if Comcast still says they won't give you the necessary equipment.

if you get digital classic do you still have to pay another 5 dollars for the hdbox? When I called comcast on the phone they said my expanded cable includes the 5$ a month for a box, so all i have to do is switch out the box for an hdbox and i dont have to pay anymore for HD.

Then when i went to the store they said i have to pay 15$ a month more just to get one channel that i wanted to watch (DiscoveryHD) and that the guy who told me i didnt have to pay 5$ for the box was wrong.

Also, is paying 15 dollars more(10 digial classic + 5 hdbox rental) the only way to get discovery HD? thats the only channel I really want and I have to pay 15$ a month for it. :(

Yep, welcome to Comcast, where you always spend more than you want.

For another $5 you might as well get the DVR.

Yes, $15 sound right.

$10 for digital Classic (which includes Discovery Channels).

and $5 extra to upgrade from a regular Box to an HD Box

and as Keenan mentioned, why not add the extra $4.95 for the DVR fee

Your lucky they didnt charge you the phone call fee to ask them ;)


ps..I see Microsoft is starting to charge $1.50 to download their beta software...maybe Comcast and MS should merge..they have the same business model.

During the heat wave of about a week ago, there was a cable outage of about 20 hours in Fremont. After the cable came back up, intermittent picture breakups occurred during the heat of the following days. Upon checking the diagnostic menu of the DVR, it was found that Inband SNR and AGC were at the always at the POOR range (AGC between 82%-92%) even during the cool part of the day and when AGC approached 99%, the breakups occurred.

Prior to the outage, both the SNR and AGC were in the GOOD range with AGC averaging about 50%.

Was the outage limited to Fremont only and do others in Fremont have very weak signals also?

If my HD set has a qam tuner what would say NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC be in HD? I know the SD channels but in Phoenix (where I am from) Cox has the HD channel in like 27-1 when the SD channel is 5, go figure.

I have a gen 1 6412 and am just getting ready to upgrade to a new TV and go to HDMI, so I am planning to swap out my existing STB for a new 6412 with HDMI. But I notice that even though apparently comcast is digitially simulcasting the analog in my area (I'm in an 850 Mhz area), the STB is still handing me the analog signal. It's not bad (I'm one drop away from the local fiber node), but I'd still like the digital feed.

Is the only way to get full digital by going to a 3412? I assume this means that I won't get the SD versions of the local affliates anymore, only HD? Not an issue in most cases, but KRON seems to have different programming on it's analog and digital channels - not that they have any interesting content to watch.

Thanks,
mike

I have a gen 1 6412 and am just getting ready to upgrade to a new TV and go to HDMI, so I am planning to swap out my existing STB for a new 6412 with HDMI. But I notice that even though apparently comcast is digitially simulcasting the analog in my area (I'm in an 850 Mhz area), the STB is still handing me the analog signal. It's not bad (I'm one drop away from the local fiber node), but I'd still like the digital feed.

Is the only way to get full digital by going to a 3412? I assume this means that I won't get the SD versions of the local affliates anymore, only HD? Not an issue in most cases, but KRON seems to have different programming on it's analog and digital channels - not that they have any interesting content to watch.

Thanks,
mike

Yes, I believe this is only the way you can have ADS (I've never heard of a CSR/technician turning it on manually). It seems like most ADS areas are phasing out the 6412 and only giving out the 3412's now.

And I think you're confusing 'digital' with 'HD'. Just because something's digital doesn't mean it's HD. When you get ADS, all you get is the digital version of the SD channels. There are absolutely no differences in regards to content. KRON is still on 004 and KRON-HD is still on 704.

If my HD set has a qam tuner what would say NBC, CBS, FOX, ABC be in HD? I know the SD channels but in Phoenix (where I am from) Cox has the HD channel in like 27-1 when the SD channel is 5, go figure.After you do a channel scan with your QAM tuner, you should find the HD channels listed with the corresponding SD/NTSC channels with numbers like "5-1" for CBS-DT, "7-x" for the various subchannels of ABC-DT, etc. Sometimes Comcast has dropped the ball for one or another of these by not supplying their PSIP data and then the channel shows up differently (e.g., CBS on my system is 79-1) but lately it's been pretty good for all the ones you listed plus KQED.

That's why I said "in theory" :D. I'm more optimisic about OCAP then the CableCARD even though CableLabs is spearheading the OCAP effort. The main drawbacks of the CableCARD was the lack of 2-way communication and the lack of standards. OCAP takes care of that. There's some really good info here (http://www.ctam.com/ocap/) .
IMO the main drawbacks fo CableCARD are pricing and lack of real desire to fix bugs.

IMO OCAP is mainly there so Comcast/MSO can untie themselves from single STB vendor. There may be secondary side effects allowing you to use 3rd party equipment, but if the same issues from CableCARD carry over, don't count on 3rd party equipment working very well.

The 6412 should be able to use digital for channels 2-82. Try unplugging it for a few hours then back in.

When I moved my old 6200 to the bedroom it started using digital.

I have a gen 1 6412 and am just getting ready to upgrade to a new TV and go to HDMI, so I am planning to swap out my existing STB for a new 6412 with HDMI. But I notice that even though apparently comcast is digitially simulcasting the analog in my area (I'm in an 850 Mhz area), the STB is still handing me the analog signal. It's not bad (I'm one drop away from the local fiber node), but I'd still like the digital feed.

Is the only way to get full digital by going to a 3412? I assume this means that I won't get the SD versions of the local affliates anymore, only HD? Not an issue in most cases, but KRON seems to have different programming on it's analog and digital channels - not that they have any interesting content to watch.

Thanks,
mike

You can keep the 6412. Call the CSR and ask for moving your STB to ADS headend and requesting a "refresh service". If he/she does not know what do you mean (most likely this will happen), ask for supervisor. Some of them know what you need.

Comcast maintains two databases on headend, one for ADS the other for normal service. After you are moved to ADS database, the headend will send new channel maps to your 6412.

Of course, if you do not want this hassle, you can go to get a 3412.

walk is right...the 6412 is fully ADS capable. It's just a matter of getting the head-end to send the "this house can use ADS" signal. Connecting a 3412 automatically does this. I have both a 3412 and 6412 and it took a few days for the 6412 to begin receiving the digital channels. I didn't think a CSR could switch you over like lmsyl said however it's definitely worth a try. If you live by a Comcast office, I would do as lmsyl suggested and just swap it for a 3412. It has all the same wonderful features/bugs as the 6412 with a smaller footprint.

walk is right...the 6412 is fully ADS capable. It's just a matter of getting the head-end to send the "this house can use ADS" signal. Connecting a 3412 automatically does this. I have both a 3412 and 6412 and it took a few days for the 6412 to begin receiving the digital channels. I didn't think a CSR could switch you over like lmsyl said however it's definitely worth a try. If you live by a Comcast office, I would do as lmsyl suggested and just swap it for a 3412. It has all the same wonderful features/bugs as the 6412 with a smaller footprint.

whoa whoa my 6412 is ADS capable? if they are all mapped to the same channels, how do i know i am watching the analog vs digital versions of say... FX? other than direct direct comparison which i can't do atm.

whoa whoa my 6412 is ADS capable? if they are all mapped to the same channels, how do i know i am watching the analog vs digital versions of say... FX? other than direct direct comparison which i can't do atm.

Tune both tuners to an "analog" channel, go into the setup and check the InBound Status. It will either say "Analog" or "QAM256" for each tuner. If it says QAM256 then you're getting the digital version of that analog channel.

Edit: yes, Service Menu. I could be wrong about the "InBound Status"...it's whatever one you check the signal strength on.

Service menu. Tune to the channel you want to check, then go into the service menu (power off, then middle button within 1 second).

I guess you might have to get Comcast to do something. Like I said, when I added the 3412, some time later the 6200 had switched over... I didn't check it for a week or 2 so I can't say exactly when it switched...

thanks for the help, i called comcast, told them to switch my headend to ADS so i can receive digital simultcast of analog channels and it took the CSR about 10 minutes to figure out what i wanted. talked to her supervisor and all they said is "yes you are in an ADS area, (thanks) and you'll need to get a new all digital DVR". hehe. my 6412 currently doesn't get the digital simulcast, so I will definitely go change it if they can't figure out how to help me. bye my recordings :(

oh yeah i also asked if i could get a discount on my silver package... no go! lol. i must have no tact. oh well, i didn't mind the 95/mo bill.

apoligize for the newbie question. i am thinking about buying the current 27" westy hd lcd tv for the bedroom. was wondering what HD channels i would receive here in cupertino with a basic cable (sans STB) hookup directly to the display.

i just unplugged my 6412 on my panny plasma in the living room and went direct and did a scan. all i'm getting is fox and cbs in hd. anyone else getting abc, nbc and pbs in hd without a box in cupertino?

tia

Provided the tv has a QAM tuner, without a box:
ABC, FOX, CBS, NBC, PBS are all available and are always unencrypted.
Right now ESPN2 and some ADS are also unencrypted, however that could change soon.

walk is right...the 6412 is fully ADS capable.
Just to clarify (for myself), I was under the impression all Comcast digital STBs are ADS capable and it is just a matter of downloading a new channel mapping. It may be that 3412 automatically gets this new channel mapping and 6412 may get it by proxy if you have 3412 on your account, but from a technical standpoint, eventually all the STBs should be able to get the new mapping.

When ADS was implemented in Seattle earlier this year, my 6412 had the digital signals remapped to the formerly analog channel numbers. I subsequently had to swap it out for a 3412, for other reasons, but we had no 3412s here when ADS first showed up. Others in the area have non-DVR STBs which also work with ADS.

Just to clarify (for myself), I was under the impression all Comcast digital STBs are ADS capable and it is just a matter of downloading a new channel mapping. It may be that 3412 automatically gets this new channel mapping and 6412 may get it by proxy if you have 3412 on your account, but from a technical standpoint, eventually all the STBs should be able to get the new mapping.

why do they want us to get new boxes then if the old ones are fully capable? i don't have a 3412 on my account so i guess i'll have to visit comcast soon.

btw its aug 1st. i don't think we're gonna be getting new hd channels today like some markets huh? inHD2 is still on last time i checked.

why do they want us to get new boxes then if the old ones are fully capable? i don't have a 3412 on my account so i guess i'll have to visit comcast soon.

The 3412's are much less expensive because there's no analog decoder. I can't remember exactly how much but I remember it being something like 30% of the total cost of the box.

btw its aug 1st. i don't think we're gonna be getting new hd channels today like some markets huh? inHD2 is still on last time i checked.

yeah, I was going to ask that. MTV HD would be good, it would be another ESPN2HD for me, but at least I could say I have some variety. :p

Is the Bay Area (or at least parts of it) now all digital? Is the 3412 stb now available here?

The 3412's are much less expensive because there's no analog decoder. I can't remember exactly how much but I remember it being something like 30% of the total cost of the box.

its a sunk cost, unless comcast is merely leasing the boxes from motorola. ie, it doesn't matter if the new box is 70% cheaper when they already bought a 6412 for me. so if they could just continue to let me use my 6412, i don't see why they wouldn't. oh well.

its a sunk cost, unless comcast is merely leasing the boxes from motorola. ie, it doesn't matter if the new box is 70% cheaper when they already bought a 6412 for me. so if they could just continue to let me use my 6412, i don't see why they wouldn't. oh well.

My guess is that many of the parts are interchangable (e.g. the hard drive) and they get some sort of reimbursment or discount from Moto. Also, it's not like they're doing a mass recall of 6412's from the ADS area customers. They're just quietly slipping them in. And since they're not marketing ADS in any way right now, I would imagine there are very few people who are actually swapping the boxes.

oh yeah i also asked if i could get a discount on my silver package... no go! lol. i must have no tact. oh well, i didn't mind the 95/mo bill.

You have to choose the option to cancel service and call during regular business hours. I tried talking to a normal CSR and got nothing. I called back the next day and chose the cancel option and now I pay less for HSI and Premium package than I did before getting Bronze and HSI. Got to sell them on the fact that Dish has a sweet deal on the premium package and you want the same price and ATT has dirt cheap DSL, so you are going to switch if they don't do something. Comcast actually beat the price for me.

Losing a customer is catastrophic for Comcast because they have to assume they will never come back. If you get the right person, they are gonna do just about anything to keep you.

Ok, so forgive me for asking a non HD question, but there are a couple more games I need to watch (Angels fan :D ) and I don't know if I can take it. Was watching the A's/Angel game last night on channel 6 KICU and the picture quality was about the worst I have ever seen. I have the 3412 so it had to be digital, but the signal was breaking up, lots of pixelation, and a bad signal on a 50" tv looks even worse.

Any idea what's going on with this channel? It's got to be the worst quality of amy comcast channel.

Ok, so forgive me for asking a non HD question, but there are a couple more games I need to watch (Angels fan :D ) and I don't know if I can take it. Was watching the A's/Angel game last night on channel 6 KICU and the picture quality was about the worst I have ever seen. I have the 3412 so it had to be digital, but the signal was breaking up, lots of pixelation, and a bad signal on a 50" tv looks even worse.

Any idea what's going on with this channel? It's got to be the worst quality of amy comcast channel.

KICU has always had the WORST quality picture in our area, IMHO -- digital or analog. Funny how it didn't seem to matter that much though when Payton hit the 2-run shot. :D

During the heat wave of about a week ago, there was a cable outage of about 20 hours in Fremont. After the cable came back up, intermittent picture breakups occurred during the heat of the following days. Upon checking the diagnostic menu of the DVR, it was found that Inband SNR and AGC were at the always at the POOR range (AGC between 82%-92%) even during the cool part of the day and when AGC approached 99%, the breakups occurred.

Prior to the outage, both the SNR and AGC were in the GOOD range with AGC averaging about 50%.

Was the outage limited to Fremont only and do others in Fremont have very weak signals also?

I haven't been able to get a lot of channels like 2,5,7 62, 63 and lots of others. All the HD channels come in. They all come in on the old set connected directly to cable. When I have tried calling support the past week or so - after going thru all the menus wind up getting a message saying "they can't handle the call right now, call back later."

...mike

Can I use a DVHS machine to record the discovery channel in HD? or is that blocked? I'd probably get one of those new JVC DVHS machines.

Can I use a DVHS machine to record the discovery channel in HD? or is that blocked? I'd probably get one of those new JVC DVHS machines.
Using JVC HM-DH30000U DVHS thru I-Link on DCT-6200 I can record any HD channel and play back at 1080i on component. The newer JVC DVHS decks have HDMI and I don't know if that works.