Spent the better part of the afternoon fiddling around in the service menu on this HDTV. I've had it for about 2 weeks and I'm contemplating returning it to BB if I can't figure out HOW to get the overscan set properly among some other issues. I calibrated the overscan on the AV4 input (where my Progressive scan DVD is hooked up) via the test pattern on the new DVE and the overscan seems more appropriate through this input from my DVR (SD MODE) on this input than it does on the other HD input.

But on AV1 where I have my D* E86 STB hooked up (all of my HDTV'S have E86's) I am able to get the "HDNET" bug to now fit on the screen whereas before I had "HDNE" in the bottom right. I was also able to get the set to where I was content with the scoreboard in the upper LH corner for the hockey game replay on HDNET as well. Previously (on both HD inputs---I tried both) the scoreboard was cut off....as was a few other graphics on HDNET/DISC HD...but never ESPNHD that I could tell). But there are a few other troubling issues/concerns I have.

For some reason, in 1080i mode, the screen seems to "move" (or throb) when there is a change in the contrast/brightness of a scene....or a camer angle change. It's most noticeable when I stare at a logo in the bottom RH corner of the screen...most noticeably on HDNET/DISCOVERY HD....because it seems on those channels the logos on RIGHT ON THE EDGE. Don't see this noticeable with ESPN-HD or any of my local HD channels. Or maybe it's just that I "notice" it now. For example, while watching HDNET just now the "Heart" concert had a lot of flashing lights......and quite often "HDNET" would become "HDNE"....and then go back to "HDNET". I've turned down the brightness on the set...to I think around 40. It was even more noticeable on camera angle/shot changes on Discovery HD. I'm not sure if "move" is a good way to describe it.....but to my eyes it seemed that the images weren't stationary. I have NEVER NOTICED THIS on my other 2 HDTV's (50" RPTV Toshiba and 17" LCD Philips). I'm wondering if this is something other Direct View HDTV owners experience???

When I compare the overscan to the picture on the 17" LCD Philips, it seems that the 17" LCD "reveals" or shows a good percentage more additional "picture" than the 30" Philips can. But, when I went into the service menu on the 30", I COULD NOT get the EW width setting to mirror what I was seeing on the 17" LCD. The accessible picture would just "end" on the sides, where the 17" was still showing what the actual scene was "beyond" the field of vision of the 30" view. To my eyes, it almost looked like the 30" was "zooming in" whereas the 17" and my 50" had a "real" 16:9 picture. Damn strange. What could cause this? I know the 30pw850H "locks" when it receives a 1080I signal. The non-HD channels seem fine as far as the overscan goes. No issues there. I *think* I understand overscanning a little and can comprehend *some* of the geometry settings and what part of a picture a set can "hide"........but this 30" didn't even seem to HAVE the ability to "see" what my 17" LCD could......or the 50" for that matter. It was just black lines on the sides whereas my other 2 sets had additional "imagery" on either side. Not sure if that makes sense, but it's the only way I can describe it.

Also---there seems to be NO WAY to adjust the sharpness on either CVI/HD input....but it "exists" on the various picture settings that are "stanrdard" on the TV. Would this be somewhere in the service menu? I reviewed and printed out all the service menu listings that I could from this forum.......and a few from some other forums.......but I didn't see a way to adjust sharpness from within the SM. Same thing goes for SVM.

The picture itself on this set seems "washed out" when compared to my other 2 HD sets "out of the box". The other 2 sets I tweaked by sight and trial and error. This one seems a bit more trickier than I expected. Today WABC_DT was broadcasting their demo video on one of the digital subchannels. I was amazed at how much more I could "see" on the 17" and the 50"......that I FOR THE LIFE OF ME COULD NOT reveal/see on the 30"!

I was in the SAM (Service Menu) while I was tweaking the signal on AV1/4 so I was able to keep the test patterns up on the digital subchannel....but I COULD NOT find any way to "get" the actual images on the 30" to even semi-look like the 17" or the 50"as far as what "fit" on the screen.

What am I missing? Has anyone else with this TV had issues with HDNET or Discovery HD with regards to the bugs on the bottom right?

Also---does it take anyone else's TV a good 10-12 seconds to display a picture/sound after you turn on the set? My wife and I laugh about it....it's like turning on an old fluroscent light fixture......... :rolleyes:

I also turned on the Virtual Dolby Digital while I was in there. Pretty cool. I'm rambling at this point. I think I'm punch drunk. Anyone care to point this dope in the right direction? :D

Help.....:eek:

Although I cant help you with the overscan problem, I do know the the "moving" of the screen when different colors/brightness' are on the screen is caused by a weak power supply. I was seriously looking at this set a couple of months ago, but changed my mind once I heard about that. The sharpness issue also turned me away, I mean how hard is it to have that option? I have since purchased the toshiba 30hf83 and i'm happy with it, I can change sharpness plus every other aspect of picture values per input and SAVE them to each assigned input (A BIG PLUS). The tosh also has a DVI input which will come in time to be useful as an additional HD-input. If I were you I would do some diggin and see if anyone in your area has the 30hf83 and go do business :)

I don't think you can compare your 30"CRT with the LCD fixed pixel or the 50"RP.The other displays will always give you "more" picture-at least the LCD.CRT's always have more overscan.As far as adjusting sharpness etc. it does not seem to be adjustable on any Philips CRT sets,they are greyed out on composite HD inputs.As to misframed logos,i can move the screen around half an inch or so in all directions by the cursor buttons when in HD composide mode but that may be only on the 34PW9819.I have not noticed any throbbing(that would mostly relate to weak PS as noted before) with my set but no CRT could ever be as rock solid as a LCD in this regard.Can you post how you got in the servicemenu?

Originally posted by alaindelon
I don't think you can compare your 30"CRT with the LCD fixed pixel or the 50"RP.The other displays will always give you "more" picture-at least the LCD.CRT's always have more overscan.As far as adjusting sharpness etc. it does not seem to be adjustable on any Philips CRT sets,they are greyed out on composite HD inputs.As to misframed logos,i can move the screen around half an inch or so in all directions by the cursor buttons when in HD composide mode but that may be only on the 34PW9819.I have not noticed any throbbing(that would mostly relate to weak PS as noted before) with my set but no CRT could ever be as rock solid as a LCD in this regard.Can you post how you got in the servicemenu?

I'm not sure WHAT I was expecting with regards to the overscan issue......but what I WASN'T expecting was to enter the Service Menu, do my EW Width adjustments and just see NOTHING but a black line RIGHT next to "HDNET" on the side of the screen.......while when looking at my LCD I clearly have another 1/2 inch or so of content plainly visible to either side of where this 30" CRT "cuts off". That's what's got me scratching my head.

I didn't expect to hear that there was a power supply issue with this line. Oddly, I only REALLY notice it when in the 1080I mode (AV/1)....not in SD modes (AV2) or when I Have my E86 running through my DVR and into AV4 via component cables.

AFA getting into the service menu, I was hesitant at first. But I just got SO PI$$ED as I started comparing the "view" on this TV to my other 2 (which I honestly never AVIA'D or DVE'D) that I dove in.

Try these links for info:

http://www.freelists.org/archives/techassist/12-2003/msg00575.html
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/htsthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=496076&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1
http://home.tiscali.nl/m.majoor/tv__matchline_service_mode.htm

I also came across this posting in the PHilips YahooGroups forum:

Using the remote press 062596 and then "exit". This will get to
the "SAM" section of the service menu. A list of items will appear on
the left. Scroll down to the geometry selection. The submenu from
here will allow you to adjust any portion of the geometry.

Each input has it's own set of values. Therefore, ensure that you are
on the proper input when making adjustments. After making the
necessary mods, press "3" to save the values. Now without exiting the
service menu you can use the AV selection from the remote to move to
another input. Repeat the process as above and remember to press "3"
after each set of adjustments.

When all done simply power off and power on, and viola.....

For me, I did the above to access the menu....but what I did was utilize the "AV" button on the remote to toggle to different inputs, mainly to get to AV1 and AV4 after I got to the geometry submenu. On the AV1/AV4 there were DIFFERENT VALUES assigned to each entry than were assigned to the non-HD/progressive scan inputs. In other words, when I entered the MAIN submenu for EW Width it stated 13 I believe. Then I hit the A/V button on the remote to go to CVI/AV1 and AV/4 and the value for EW Width wasn't 13 it was 18 or some number like that. There was also a "1080I" text next to the value.

I only messed around with AV1/AV4 and AV2. When I was done with a particular input I entered" 3" to save the value....and the screen would "blank out" and go to the main submenu (i.e. EW Width where I started). I would then hit "3" to save from there and then I turned off the power with the remote.

Make sure you right down the values that are on the screen for each associated setting. I printed out EVERYTHING I could and sat down with that in front of me.

Make sure no one is around to bother you. Trust me.......;)

To save the settings after changing something in the service menu on the 30pw850H press Status/Exit, than press Menu , now shut off the TV and turn it back on . jaypb are you sure you are saving the settings after adjusting stuff ? There are lots of tweaks and such in SAM (service alignment mode) than there is also the SDM (service default mode) not sure what this is but you can enter it by pressing 062596 Menu . As far as the long startup on the TV mine does it too, it is kind of funny, wonder what takes it so long, but oh well I can live with it .

I notice slight picture movement with my set. it is not too annoying. from my experience, each input has it's own storage for the values in the SAM.


Now that I know what some of the options are I can disable the ones I do not use like 14;9 zoom and subtitle zoom (quite useless in my humble opinion) I use either auto or widescreen.

each input has its own values ? so like CVI and AV4 (both HD connections) have their own settings ? Isn't it if you mess with lets say CVI with a 480p input it will affect AV4 with a 480p input right ?

Originally posted by eroteme
each input has its own values ? so like CVI and AV4 (both HD connections) have their own settings ? Isn't it if you mess with lets say CVI with a 480p input it will affect AV4 with a 480p input right ?

From what I remember (I just woke up and I'm not near the TV) yesterday when I was in the SAM (the TV says this in green IIRC in the upper RH corner when you enter the menu).........When I went to input CVI...in my case the TV recognized the 1080I signal from my D* STB......and said so on the screen "EW width.....22 1080I". Then, when I toggled to input AV4 with the AV button on the remote, I believe it stated "EW width.....16 480P". So I'm not sure if you fool with 480P on AV4 if it's the same setting for 480P no CVI. I'll have to go back and check. Right now the only inputs I had anything hooked up to was CVI, AV4 and AV2...and, for me with the E86, it's an annoyance to hit "Action/Input" to toggle between HD and SD signals.

Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
I notice slight picture movement with my set. it is not too annoying. from my experience, each input has it's own storage for the values in the SAM.


Now that I know what some of the options are I can disable the ones I do not use like 14;9 zoom and subtitle zoom (quite useless in my humble opinion) I use either auto or widescreen.

Edit: The way I would describe the "image moving" scenario I talked about is kind of like an "ebb and flow" effect. When the screen would get bright (in a scene or scene change) I would notice the screen bug in a corner or a scoreboard "expand"....but when the scene/screen would get darker the bug/scoreboard would 'ebb" back or un-expand......if that makes sense. I only notice this when on 1080i and don't seem to notice it on 480p or 480i.

I wish I knew if there was a way to disable SVM to see if it would eliminate any of the edge enhancements I *think* I notice. Or for that matter a way to turn down the sharpness....as It's weird that the Factory settings for those "picture" values (Movie,multimedia, sports, etc...) have different sharpness amounts that you seem to be able to adjust in the SAM....but not your "personal" picture settings for when you are in AV1 or AV4. I wonder if the sharpness setting in that mode is taken from AV1 or AV2-3???

Originally posted by eroteme
To save the settings after changing something in the service menu on the 30pw850H press Status/Exit, than press Menu , now shut off the TV and turn it back on . jaypb are you sure you are saving the settings after adjusting stuff ? There are lots of tweaks and such in SAM (service alignment mode) than there is also the SDM (service default mode) not sure what this is but you can enter it by pressing 062596 Menu . As far as the long startup on the TV mine does it too, it is kind of funny, wonder what takes it so long, but oh well I can live with it .

When I started yesterday, I wasn't using the "3" input after setting the width where I wanted it. Then I would "back out" of the SAM from what I can recall by hiting Status/Exit and then Menu........and shutting off the TV via the remote. Then I'd turn the TV back on and the overscan would still be there. Then I would go BACK into the SAM and I'd see the values "didn't take". Then I went to the Yahoogroups Philips board (which seems devoid of any useful content lately with the exception of porn related posts :mad:) and found the post about entering "3" and toggling between the AV inputs.

I haven't tried to go into the "customer service mode" or the "covergence mode" if they even exist. Having 2 kids running around while doing this yesterday was a chore. I should've done it at night with NO ONE around...including my wife.

:D

the settings are saved when you exit the menu so there is no need to press three on the remote.

Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
the settings are saved when you exit the menu so there is no need to press three on the remote.

I actually tried that the first 2-3 times when I exited the menu, but every time I turned the TV back on, the EW width that I was trying to "change" was back to it's original state. It was only after I found the post on the Yahoogroups site stating to hit "3" after adjusting each setting that my set was able to "save" my changes. For some reason, only after hitting "3" when I was in 1080i (for me CVI) and 480P (when I was in A/V 4) were my changes saved.

On a related note, which setting in the SAM will allow me to adjust the "bowing" that I *think* I'm seeing when I'm viewing a 4:3 digital signal? Is it the "hor-bow" setting? What I'm seeing is (for lack of a better description) is something like this on the sides of a 4:3 image when I'm on a digital channel not broadcasting in 16:9:

( 4:3 image)

Where the "(" above are the edges of the 4:3 image on my 16:9 screen.

Though not as exaggerated. But the lines are curved somewhat when looking at it from top to bottom. It's easy for me to see this on the local CBS affiliate because they use grey bars not black when they aren't passing a 16:9 image. And I know it's not the station itself because it's also evident on other D* HD channels (Discovery HD and HDNET when they show commercials) and several other local Digital channels whereas on my other HDTV's the geometry seems perfect.

that would be the parabolic adjustment aka pincushin it is listed as ew para in the geometry menu.

That is strange about your set. when I exit the menu by pressing the exit button and then power off the TV with the remote, my settings are changed.

Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
that would be the parabolic adjustment aka pincushin it is listed as ew para in the geometry menu.

That is strange about your set. when I exit the menu by pressing the exit button and then power off the TV with the remote, my settings are changed.

Thanks for the "translation". I'm going to give the parabolic an adjustment and see what happens. I'll also try to save the settings WITHOUT the "3" entry and see what happens.

I'm also *contemplating* toying with the "Sharpness" settings in the Smart Settings/Personal Submenu. I figure........if it SHOWS sharpness as "being there" it *may* be adjustable...........right ?!?!!?

what is really needed is a focus adjustment for each input

I wonder what the difference between different software versions are on this TV? In my set, the SWID is EM1U21-1.1 and my set was made in June 2003. We just set up a new display model at my store and i check that software version and it is EM1U21-1.2 and was made in December 2003. With the display set, the color banding doesn't seem to be an issue, althoguh, I can't test it in a dark envionment, which is when I notice mine the most. What software version does your set have?

Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
what is really needed is a focus adjustment for each input

On a direct view TV such as this, how would one accomplish this? Through the convergence menu? Or havning a tech come in and do it from within the TV? I've actually only thought of Projection TV's when hearing focus adjustments........then again I haven't had a Direct View Widescreen Tube TV for that long.........;)

The other "weird" thing with this TV was RIGHT out of the box (and it seemed to be a brand new UNOPENED box from Best Buy) I thought I had a problem with the TV. The picture or "field of vision" seemed "tilted or skewed. After fiddling around in the REGULAR menu and RTFM, I noticed there was a "rotation" setting. For some reason this set was set to "12"...and bringing it BACK to ZERO leveled off the picture.

Did anyone else have to adjust the rotation out of the box.......or should I say "was anyone's rotation NOT at 12"??? The other odd setting on the TV was that it was in 16:9 ZOOM mode (think that's what it was called) and I had to set it to "Widescreen" on one of the inputs (AV2) maybe??? So I can understand how someone would hook this TV up and NOT be able to figure out how to operate it (since most people don't RTFM).

This is my 2nd Philips HDTV (the other is a 17" LCD WS). Oddly, this TV is able to be "turned back on" and stay on AV1/AV4 and the TV "reads" an HD input (1080i). On my 17" LCD from Philips EVERYTIME I turn it back on I have to hit the "HD" button on the Philips remote because the TV doesn't seem to be able to be turned back on in HD mode.

Go figure............maybe I'll have to check the SAM on that TV and see if it's an option :rolleyes:.........

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I wonder what the difference between different software versions are on this TV? In my set, the SWID is EM1U21-1.1 and my set was made in June 2003. We just set up a new display model at my store and i check that software version and it is EM1U21-1.2 and was made in December 2003. With the display set, the color banding doesn't seem to be an issue, althoguh, I can't test it in a dark envionment, which is when I notice mine the most. What software version does your set have?

Went back into the SAM...my SW Version/ID is: EM1U21-1.2. Not sure what the build date is as I need another 20 hands to move this heavy behemoth around. I'll have to see if it's on the box.

I *think* since I started moving the overscan around I've "revealed" some of the dark banding. I *think* I noticed it during the hockey game on Sunday (on a white background).

Also went back in and tried to "see" if there was a way to set the sharpness in the AV4 or CVI modes. And I *think* there is. My PERSONAL setting in CVI mode for the picture settings WAS "84" when I started this excersize in angst . Too high for me. I wanted to try and "tone it down" since when I switched to the "weak" signal picture setting (which had a setting of 14) the picture looked *somewhat* better...more definition and less "bleeding/murkiness" to me. So I went back into the SAM, toggled to the Smart Settings and then, went down to "weak" picture mode. I then toggled the "AV" button on the remote to get the CVI input screen to come up and my 1080i picture screen came up. I had on the "Over Ireland" Documentary on HDNET.

Hopefully I'm remembering these steps in order. I hit the "picture" button on the remote and I was able to see the picture "modes" toggling in red at the top of the screen (PERSONAL/MOVIE/MULTIMEDIA/SPORTS/WEAK). While all the settings for WEAK (BRIGHT/COLOR/PICTURE/SHARPNESS/TINT) were up I toggled the picture button over so the top of the screen said PERSONAL and changed all the settings for WEAK to match what I had for PERSONAL on my original CVI mode (I wrote them down before I went IN to the SAM---Brightness, Color and Picture). I then hit "3" to save these settings and this "action" returned me to the original SAM screen (on my TV it's blue). I turned the TV off from there.

When I turned the TV back on and went to CVI my SHARPNESS was STILL at "84" for PERSONAL....even though I had assumed that by adjusting the WEAK settings in the SAM it wuold be turned down to 14. So I pulled up the "weak" settings via the picture button and THEN went into the MENU and made the WEAK settings for BRIGHT/COLOR/PIC to what they were in my personal settings. When I THEN toggled BACK to personal, the settings I had JUST made for WEAK were now on the screen under the PERSONAL picture settings. Not sure WHAT made them change over. But, now my SHARPNESS is 14 in personal.......whereas before it was 84. And the color/brightness/picture are where I want them to be.

It also looks like you can adjust the TINT in the SAM for each picture setting.......but I didn't do that.

So, it seems you CAN adjust the sharpness for the CVI/AV4 input from the SAM. It's just a question of IF you can do it for your "personal" settings. At this point I'm not sure if you can just MANIPULATE it right from the MENU/Picture button or if I did something in the SAM to get it to "accept" it.

YMMV.

software version on my set is em1v21-1.1 manufacturer date june 2003. My rotation is currently set to 25 to get a level picture.

Now that I think about ... If CVI and AV4 both support 480i/480p/1080i than how come if I run a game on XBOX lets say that isn't 480p its very dark the picture ? Even so the dashboard on XBOX which is only available in 480i is very dark, I can still read it but very dark still . Was just thinking about this that if the inputs support 480i, shouldnt the picture still have nice colors like the component inputs on the other flat screens in my house (which are only 480i) the picture is still very nice and colors are nice . Maybe both my inputs are bad ?

I recently purchased this set and have spent quite a bit of time in the SAM. Here's what I've found:

1. I also can't shrink the horizontal dimension as much as I'd like, but by shrinking it as far as it will go and centering the image horizontally, it's acceptable to me, just barely.

2. By using all of the various SAM settings, I was able to get the geometry just about perfect. It wasn't easy, but I was reasonably satisfied with the controls provided in the SAM.

3. I think the settings are saved per input type (480i, 480p, 1080i), not by input, but I could be wrong there. More experimentation should answer that one though.

4. I found that by hitting STATUS, then hitting MENU, the settings are saved. I've never hit '3', and my settings are saved, so I don't know what the deal is with that. I also noticed that whenever powering up after being in the SAM, the TV defaults to the TUNER input regardless of what input I was working on when I powered it off. This is not normally the case, in that the TV powers on with the same input selected as when it was last powered off.

5. At its default settings, my set did do some of the throbbing based on image brightness, but bringing down the brightness and picture settings to correct values effectively eliminated it.

6. I think the whole reason the sharpness control is disabled for 480p and 1080i sources is that the set is letting the signal through unaltered, which is the way I like it. Sharpness controls are a leftover from the days of soft analog signals.

7. I did need to adjust the rotation a bit to level my image. Can't remember what the settings was off the top of my head.

8. I couldn't figure out any way to set SVM one way or the other, so I'm not sure what's up with that. If someone could find out what the deal is with SVM on this set, I'd be happy to know.

9. I also noticed that inputting 480i on the component input (either one) resulted in a very dim image. By adjusting the brightness, picture, and color settings, I was able to obtain a pretty good image though.

Dave

The rotation is in the normal user menu. This is provided because it depends on which way you have your set facing. Because of the earth magnetic field, the tilt of your picture will vary, so if you move the set, you'll have to adjust the rotation. I also am interested in the SVM, but so far no information has suffaced regarding this issue on philps tvs.

Dave when you say acceptable levels on your brightness, what numbers are they at. I notice the "blooming" on regular cable, especially when the set is in 4:3 mode. I've really only calibrated the tv based on my own eye and a THX thing on my Finding Nemo DVD. Is the Avia or DVE worth the money?

Ryan

Ryan-

I haven't quite settled on final values yet, but right now my brightness and picture settings are both in the low 40s. After checking last night, my set does still do a little of the image shifting at the left side when the image brightness changes substantially. I didn't notice before because most of the network icons are on the bottom right side, but our CBS HD channel here puts a logo on both bottom corners (gotta love that!), and I saw that the left logo does move slightly when the image goes between dark and light. Definitely not the greatest power supply in this set. Hopefully it'll last for a while. I got the set so cheap I can't really complain.

Dave

Originally posted by Dave W
Ryan-

I haven't quite settled on final values yet, but right now my brightness and picture settings are both in the low 40s. After checking last night, my set does still do a little of the image shifting at the left side when the image brightness changes substantially. I didn't notice before because most of the network icons are on the bottom right side, but our CBS HD channel here puts a logo on both bottom corners (gotta love that!), and I saw that the left logo does move slightly when the image goes between dark and light. Definitely not the greatest power supply in this set. Hopefully it'll last for a while. I got the set so cheap I can't really complain.

Dave

In my case, the reason I noticed it was because when I was watching HDNET I started to see the large amount of overscan on the sides. Then, when I thought I had it adjusted and I came out of the SAM I was watching "Higher Definition" and they had a lot of bright scenes with flashing lights.....and all of a sudden I realized that the EW width was set to where it SHOULD be, but the brightness/darkness was causing an "ebb and flow" effect with the bug everytime the scene would change.

I actually STILL notice it.....but I'm trying not to notice it as much..... ;)

i adjusted my set so that there was less overscan and when you set it to be too narrow the warped picture is common. They could build TVs that have geometry like a PC monitor but it would cost you twice as much for a set than it does now.

Originally posted by jaypb
When I compare the overscan to the picture on the 17" LCD Philips, it seems that the 17" LCD "reveals" or shows a good percentage more additional "picture" than the 30" Philips can. But, when I went into the service menu on the 30", I COULD NOT get the EW width setting to mirror what I was seeing on the 17" LCD. The accessible picture would just "end" on the sides, where the 17" was still showing what the actual scene was "beyond" the field of vision of the 30" view. To my eyes, it almost looked like the 30" was "zooming in" whereas the 17" and my 50" had a "real" 16:9 picture. Damn strange. What could cause this? I know the 30pw850H "locks" when it receives a 1080I signal. The non-HD channels seem fine as far as the overscan goes. No issues there. I *think* I understand overscanning a little and can comprehend *some* of the geometry settings and what part of a picture a set can "hide"........but this 30" didn't even seem to HAVE the ability to "see" what my 17" LCD could......or the 50" for that matter. It was just black lines on the sides whereas my other 2 sets had additional "imagery" on either side. Not sure if that makes sense, but it's the only way I can describe it.



I know what you mean. I decided to see what I could do because I could tell that I was missing just a little info. Your description is right on. It seems that the EW.Width setting streched or compresses a black matte whereas the Hor Shift moves the picture left and right behind that matting. It is really strange. I want to compress the EW.Width so I can see the black on both sides, then center the the compressed image, then strech the black out. Then I want to do the same to the actual picture behind. But there is no way to center the black that EW.Width pulls in, and there is no way to strech or compress what Hor Shift moves left and right. Any ideas? I really only want to get this right because I use the component out of my Radeon 9700 and when playing games at 1080i, the huds of the games are usually cut off. But as far as the blooming, I don't really notice it unless the image is pillarboxed 4:3 content and the edge of the content is visable.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I know what you mean. I decided to see what I could do because I could tell that I was missing just a little info. Your description is right on. It seems that the EW.Width setting streched or compresses a black matte whereas the Hor Shift moves the picture left and right behind that matting. It is really strange. I want to compress the EW.Width so I can see the black on both sides, then center the the compressed image, then strech the black out. Then I want to do the same to the actual picture behind. But there is no way to center the black that EW.Width pulls in, and there is no way to strech or compress what Hor Shift moves left and right. Any ideas? I really only want to get this right because I use the component out of my Radeon 9700 and when playing games at 1080i, the huds of the games are usually cut off. But as far as the blooming, I don't really notice it unless the image is pillarboxed 4:3 content and the edge of the content is visable.

I haven't "toyed" with any additional settings since my flurry of weekend e-mails :p

I'm going to give it a few days and see how these "changes" I've made pan out. Then I'll go from there. I still have 12 days or so to return the TV....and I'm going to wait and see if Best Buy sales prices anything else "in the same range" for what I paid for this one.

I know that you "get what you pay for"......and in my case this is a TV for the bedroom.......and it'll only be watched at night (mostly by the wife---so her idea of "perfect" is of a lesser critical nature than mine).

I posted the question of whether or not the SVM can be turned off on the Yahoogroups Philips site......but no responses yet.

I posted this as a separate thread, but I wanted to make sure that people that are subscribed to this thread see this info:

Possible answer to Philips SVM

I was just messing around with my TV (30PW850H) and adjusting via the service menu, but in my doing so, I also paid a little more attention to the options in the regular menu. I have been on the lookout for a way to turn off Scan Velocity Modulation since the day I got the set, and I was just turning stuff on and off and adjusted the Dynamic Contrast. I couldn't remember exactly what SVM was supposed to do or how you knew it was turned on, so I looked it up on the internet, and came across this definition:

scan velocity modulation - TV feature; a circuit that increases the speed of electrons to their respective phosphor dots. Often produces an artificial "hard edge," which is why it should be switched off for sources such as DVD and HDTV. Used in professional projectors as a form of dithering to reduce the visibility of scan lines. Also called velocity scan modulation or, generically, edge enhancement.
(cnet.com)

This seems to be what Dynamic Contrast does as when you turn it on, edges seemed to be affected just like the description above. Is it possible that this option actually controls the SVM of the set? I'm not extremly knoledgeable on the inner workings of TVs, but this seemed logical. I have always had this option off as it seemed to make the image too crisp and detail is usually lost in the process (another thing I have heard SVM does). Opinions from the rest of you (or facts if you are postive about this)?

Ryan

Edit:
was just on the philips uk site and under a description for their TVs, I found this:

Scavem : Dynamic Scavem
Dramatically improves overall definition and contrast without any discoloration or blurring.

Seems like the Dynamic contrast may be the way to turn it off.

PS. Philips has some really kick a$$ tvs over in the UK. In particular, there is a 32" widescreen that is black but encased in wood with "sapele veneer". It looks really cool. The model if you are interested in looking is 32PW9586

I was at Best Buy yesterday looking at potential HDTV sets ,when viewing the Philips 30PW850H I to noticed this "zoom" effect as bright scenes would be displayed then fade away etc., sitting to the left of it was a Sony Wega 30" Widescreen HDTV and it did not have this symptom even tho the screen was noticably more vibrant ..then again it cost nearly double the price , Other than this I was pretty happy with the picture quality, So this is not a "bad batch" of philips were talking about here?, its just the way this tv is built? According to the Video Essentials DVD having this type of 'fault' indicates a weak power supply ..I can't imagine the set lasting a long time if this is the case? ...I was seriously considering getting it but not sure anymore :confused:

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I posted this as a separate thread, but I wanted to make sure that people that are subscribed to this thread see this info:

Possible answer to Philips SVM

I was just messing around with my TV (30PW850H) and adjusting via the service menu, but in my doing so, I also paid a little more attention to the options in the regular menu. I have been on the lookout for a way to turn off Scan Velocity Modulation since the day I got the set, and I was just turning stuff on and off and adjusted the Dynamic Contrast. I couldn't remember exactly what SVM was supposed to do or how you knew it was turned on, so I looked it up on the internet, and came across this definition:

scan velocity modulation - TV feature; a circuit that increases the speed of electrons to their respective phosphor dots. Often produces an artificial "hard edge," which is why it should be switched off for sources such as DVD and HDTV. Used in professional projectors as a form of dithering to reduce the visibility of scan lines. Also called velocity scan modulation or, generically, edge enhancement.
(cnet.com)

This seems to be what Dynamic Contrast does as when you turn it on, edges seemed to be affected just like the description above. Is it possible that this option actually controls the SVM of the set? I'm not extremly knoledgeable on the inner workings of TVs, but this seemed logical. I have always had this option off as it seemed to make the image too crisp and detail is usually lost in the process (another thing I have heard SVM does). Opinions from the rest of you (or facts if you are postive about this)?

Ryan

Edit:
was just on the philips uk site and under a description for their TVs, I found this:

Scavem : Dynamic Scavem
Dramatically improves overall definition and contrast without any discoloration or blurring.

Seems like the Dynamic contrast may be the way to turn it off.

PS. Philips has some really kick a$$ tvs over in the UK. In particular, there is a 32" widescreen that is black but encased in wood with "sapele veneer". It looks really cool. The model if you are interested in looking is 32PW9586

I'm not worth a spittle of spit as far as what the internal workings of a TV but I'll attempt to see what turning it off can do. I will say I went to the online manual for this TV (http://www.consumer.philips.com/global/b2c/common/downloads/downloads_results.jhtml?divId=0&divId=0&groupId=TV_GR&externalProductId=30pw850h&externalBrand=PHILIPS&sourceType=4&_requestid=81534) and noticed (as I'd noticed when I read the manual) that it states:

"The sharpness and Tint Controls will not be available for adjustments when tuned to AV4/CVI".

Most folks have commented on this, but there IS a way for you to "adjust" the sharpness settings in the SAM.....but I haven't tried to adjst the "tint" to see if that improves the picture....though I *think* I'm remembering postings that Component Inputs bypass the tint anyway ?!?!?

And these gems....which, again, I had noticed when reading the manual at home, but just thought I'd mention:

"Digital Options (Eye Fidelity) control isn't available for AV4"
"Dynamic Contrast Control is not available with AV4"
"Active Control is not available for signals connected to AV4"

***And I *believe* it's not available on CVI either if you have a 1080i input coming in there--which is where I Have my D* HD STB now***

But, I don't recall if the "option" screen for any of these was for the WHOLE set or by input. If it's for the WHOLE TV SET, I wonder how it would affect the non-HD inputs/SD picture quality if you turned these off.

Either way I'm going to try and find some time to fool around with this TV over the weekend. I'm hoping that my local ABC station (as they did last weekend) puts on their wacky HD loop which does have some color bars and geometric patterns on their digital/HD channel.

Well, I personally have thought that the HD quality of the set is amazing as well as the progressive picture. So my biggest reason for adjusting this set was to make the 480i picture as good as can be. This wasn't too hard for most of the set, but 480i component looked absolutely horid. Every thing was really jaggity and just nasty looking in general. I noticed that all of the smart picture modes had a high sharpness setting, except for weak signal, and that helped out the jaggedness, but the colors really sucked, so started my adventure to adjust it so it looked good.

I got the color set how I wanted them, so I only needed to adjust the sharpness. Following this, it is also possible to adjust the tint on the component inputs, but I didn't feel the need to, so I am not 100% sure that this will actually change anything.

On the component inputs, if you want to change the sharpness, here's how I did it:

1. Get your personal picture set to how you like it. You'll want to write down the values so you'll have them. This is important becuase later on, you'll be able to adjust the sharpness and see the results in realtime, instead of having to save and turn off the set etc.

2. After you write these down, enter the service menu (062596 Status/Exit) and change to the component input you want to edit by closing the service menu (Status/Exit) then hit AV until you get to your input and then reenter the service menu (Status/Exit).

3. Go to the smart settings, the last option, and in that menu, choose a setting to modify. I chose the weak signal but any would do. You'll want to write down the numbers for the setting that you are going to change so you can reset it later on if you want. Now, put in your values that you set in step one to the setting that you choose.

4. Now hit the Menu Button, then Status/Exit, and turn off the tv at the set. Then turn it back on with the remote. (This is just to get the settings to be saved, it worked for me, but I know others have tried hitting "3" or just menu, but I don't know, do what works for you).

5. Now set the TV to weak signal (or whatever you chose to edit) and reenter the service menu and change to your input (Step 2). Now go back to the smart settings, and go to the one you edited and change the sharpness. You should see the sharpness changing in realtime. Set it to what you want and save by repeating step 4.

6. Now back in the TV, the way to get the sharpness to apply to your Personal setting, change to the setting you edited, then enter the user menu and just move the brigtness slider down then back up. Since I set the settings of the weak signal to what I wanted, I only needed to move it then back. After you do this, exit the user menu and hit the picture button. You should notice that the sharpness is now what it was on the setting you edited.

All of that just because Philips didn't include a sharpness control for the component inputs. I am assuming that this will work on HD sources as well, although I didn't try it.

As far as the Tint, I didn't try editing it, but assume it would work the same way, if it worked. Since component should have already good color balance, this shouldn't need to be edited and it may have no effect on the component inputs at all.

The Dynamic Contrast is only able to be changed on sources that are 480i, including component. My progressive scan DVD picture looks really good, as does my 1080i HD picture. After seeing what Dynamic Contrast does to the other sources, it does not look like it is turned on for the 480p or 1080i signals.

Now that I have got this set up with the sharpness on component input (for me, Sharpness at 0 looked the best), this set looks amazing. Playstation 2 and Gamecube that are not widescreen, but progressive, had me gloomy, cuz this set would strech them, and the 480i looks worse since the edges were so hard. Softer edges is what progressive appered to help the most with. My progressive DVD picture looked more film like than the interlaced output. After adjusting the sharpness of the component inputs for 480i, games that have progressive and non-progressive, look strikingly similar. This is a very good thing, since games that have progressive but not widescreen look bad streched, so now I can use the 480i mode and use the tv to set the ratio at 4:3. After I got this all configured how I liked, it was almost as if I had a new TV. I know it was just adjusting the sharpness, but after living with it set way to high, it looks much better. Interlaced DVD play aproaches that of the progressive output; lines seem smoother, not as jagged as before. They are still more jagged than the progressive output, but at viewing distance, you can't tell. In fact, one time after switching back and forth between progressive and interlaced and my gamecube and ps2, I went back to my DVD and was watching it and decided to put it back in interlaced mode for more testing. So I stopped the movie, and entered the setup for my DVD player and I was stunned that it already was in interlaced... fooled me.

As with all things in life, your milage may vary, but adjusting this brought this set to a new level for me. I no longer feel the need to buy a new DVD player that has pillarboxing for 4:3 movies in progressive mode.

Ryan

Edit:
after posting this i went back to read through the thread to see if there was anything else I could answer and realized that jaypb had a post silmilar to this one. I think that you probably did something like these steps but didn't think that they had anything to do with changing the sharpness. Also, I think that each signal for a type of input has its own smart settings and the tuner has its own set as well. After adjusting the 480i smart settings, the smart settings for my cable that comes through the tuner, were not effected.

I was messing around with our display set and found a couple of very small differences between my software (1.1) and the displays (1.2). On my model, if i enable IPMU, the option in the user menu shows up as Contrast+ whereas on the display model, it is called ImageMax; they both have the same effect. This contrast option will work on all sources not just 480i (which the Dyanmic Contrast does). The other small change is that the menus are centered on the screen and the text is slightly smaller. So I haven't found anything really different yet, and probably wont.

I believe it was discussed somewhere else earlier in this thread, but I've got to ask again......Does everyone else's 850H take about a good 15 seconds to "show a picture" after you hit the "on" button either on the front panel or the remote?

I read the manual and it commented that if you had the "AutoChron" set to "on" the TV has to "search" for a PBS signal to synch up the proper time. I thought that this was what was causing the delay in getting a picture from the moment I hit the button to the moment the picture came up.

No dice. Even turning AutoChron off results in a large time delay between "on" and seeing a picture.

Anyone else? :confused:

P.S: I still haven't tinkered much with my settings since the flurry of posts on this thread. I will say I have noticed recently that I've probably set the overscan on 1080i to an inproper level as I'm starting to see "black" in the edges of the screen when the set starts to "ebb and flow" with the contrast/brightness.

I had hoped to tweak on a Tuesday AM when HDNET puts their test signal patterns up at 8:00 AM ET. But that's a pipe dream in the world of work :D

screw work...lol anyways about the power on, mine takes about that long too. My dads sony trinitron takes a while but not as long as this set. I guess I never gave a second thougt.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
screw work...lol anyways about the power on, mine takes about that long too. My dads sony trinitron takes a while but not as long as this set. I guess I never gave a second thougt.

The only reason I noticed it was because of the complaints from the Mrs's !!

I have a 20" Philips TV in my daughters room and I think that one takes awhile to "power up"......but not as long as this one.

Wonder if it's got anything to do with the *perceived* power supply issue ?!?! :confused:

I think that the time mine takes is about the same as my dads 32" sony. I think it has something to do with the crt warming up.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
I think that the time mine takes is about the same as my dads 32" sony. I think it has something to do with the crt warming up.

I currently have 2 25" CRT's (one 4 years old and they other about 12)......and neither one takes as long as the Philips does.

It's not a pain......but anything that gets a rise out of the wife usually winds up as a pain.....in my....... :D

nice... maybe if the we would just let them buy the shoes they want, we'd get the toys we want.... jk.

well i just ordered avia to calibrate this set. I have used the thx optimizer for the basics, but i want to dial in the overscan and what not for all the interlaced modes. I acutally was at the rave (the local movie theater with stadium seating and awesome sound, the best theater i have ever been in) and in dark sceens, there are vertical "light" lines on the left and the right. You can't even see them unless it is a really black sceen, but it much be some light from teh projector. After seeing that, I guess my tv with the vertical bars is just like the high tech theater..haha! I have pretty much forgot about it, but for the most part my picture is really good and a bar here or there only on certain scenes, doesnt' bother me.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
nice... maybe if the we would just let them buy the shoes they want, we'd get the toys we want.... jk.

well i just ordered avia to calibrate this set. I have used the thx optimizer for the basics, but i want to dial in the overscan and what not for all the interlaced modes. I acutally was at the rave (the local movie theater with stadium seating and awesome sound, the best theater i have ever been in) and in dark sceens, there are vertical "light" lines on the left and the right. You can't even see them unless it is a really black sceen, but it much be some light from teh projector. After seeing that, I guess my tv with the vertical bars is just like the high tech theater..haha! I have pretty much forgot about it, but for the most part my picture is really good and a bar here or there only on certain scenes, doesnt' bother me.

If you have Discovery HD there's a series on Tuesday nights about the Arctic. In the large # of scenes that show ice/snow to my eyes I can see the lines faintly running vertically in those scenes. My wife can't.....but I can. I'm sure now that I mentioned it to her, she'll see them in the future:p

most likely due to a POST test that the TC executes every time it is turned on.

argh,
I can't get my settings to save.
OK,
1)I enter SAM, scroll to the horizontal width, change it to 20(works for me), then hit 3 and power off, comes back on, no change.

2)I enter SAM, scroll to the horizontal width, change it to 20(works for me), then hit menu, then exit, and power off, comes back on, no change.

3)I enter SAM, scroll to the horizontal width, change it to 20(works for me), then hit exit, then menu, and power off, comes back on, no change.

am i doing something wrong in one of my steps?
Thanks for any help..

dunno if this is the offical way, but i power off at the tv then power on with the remote. my stuff has always been saved.

Originally posted by dag16
argh,
I can't get my settings to save.
OK,
1)I enter SAM, scroll to the horizontal width, change it to 20(works for me), then hit 3 and power off, comes back on, no change.

2)I enter SAM, scroll to the horizontal width, change it to 20(works for me), then hit menu, then exit, and power off, comes back on, no change.

3)I enter SAM, scroll to the horizontal width, change it to 20(works for me), then hit exit, then menu, and power off, comes back on, no change.

am i doing something wrong in one of my steps?
Thanks for any help..

Just curious but which input are you trying to alter? IIRC, you have to BE on/in that input on the SAM to adjust that setting (i.e 1080i, 480p, 480i). Could that be the issue? Your adjusting the width on the 480i input but you're really trying to adjust the 1080i input?

On a related note, I had to go BACK into the SAM and change my EW Width from the 19 it was on to 21 (original setting) because when I was watching TV last night I noticed that the vertical edges were all F'd up.......wavy and winding, not "straight"......so I dont' know WTF happened. But now, by setting it back to 21 (Factory Setting) when watching HDNET or DISCOVERY HD I'm back to "HDNE" and "DISCOVER H" on the left hand lower side of the screen. So I'll have to see just WTF happened.

Damned settings.........damned weak power supply.......damn it!

I'm currently trying to adjust AV2 and AV3, only cause my comcast HD isn't working yet. I'm losing somewhere around 30% of the picture off screen, so it's something I really need to fix.

Originally posted by dag16
I'm currently trying to adjust AV2 and AV3, only cause my comcast HD isn't working yet. I'm losing somewhere around 30% of the picture off screen, so it's something I really need to fix.

AV2/AV3===those are non HD/progressive inputs correct? Did you have a picture on the screen when you were making the adjustments? I *think* when you go into the SAM it defaults to a snowy screen. From there I usually just hit the "A/V" button on the remote till I get to the correct input....and then I adjust from there accordingly. Some folks save with the exit button I think.....for me I had to hit "3" on the remote and then it defaults back to a blue screen. Somewhere earlier in this thread I went over how I did it on my 850h. Not sure if the build date/SW version has anything to do with why I had to hit "3".

Originally posted by jaypb
AV2/AV3===those are non HD/progressive inputs correct? Did you have a picture on the screen when you were making the adjustments? I *think* when you go into the SAM it defaults to a snowy screen. From there I usually just hit the "A/V" button on the remote till I get to the correct input....and then I adjust from there accordingly. Some folks save with the exit button I think.....for me I had to hit "3" on the remote and then it defaults back to a blue screen. Somewhere earlier in this thread I went over how I did it on my 850h. Not sure if the build date/SW version has anything to do with why I had to hit "3".

I'm using the AV button to get to the correct input, adjusting it so that it looks perfect, but then it never saves. If the alignment wasn't so bad, it wouldn't be an issue...
maybe I'll just call philips and have them come out since this TV is only a week old..

so this may be a dumb question, but I can only get 480i out of CVI and no 1080i out of AV4. does anyone know, do I have to enable this?
thanks

you shouldn't have to. does it work on the cvi input? are you sure that you are sending out a 1080i signal?

Is Phillips a 'blue screen' or black?

When receiving no signal, you can either have it display the blue screen or just the static.

Originally posted by oryan_dunn
you shouldn't have to. does it work on the cvi input? are you sure that you are sending out a 1080i signal?

I went through the service menu on the cable box and set the output to 1080i and nothing comes on the screen. We tried this with 2 cable boxes, and got the same response with both, so I'm pretty sure it's the TV.

In addition, if I have nothing hooked up to AV4, and 480i hooked up to cvi, then when I switch to AV4, I see the 480i from cvi; but if I put the 480i on AV4, then I see nothing at all...
I talked to Philips yesterday, and they were pretty nasty about it, telling me the only thing I could do was to bring the TV into a service center. It was only when I explained that I'm not bringing a 1 week old TV(ordered from Philips web site) that weighs 150 lbs into a service center that they said they would contact me on Monday...

Ok i understand now. Sounds like the electronics of the set is messed up. It should auto detect the signal format and both cvi and av4 should be separate inputs. I, too, would not put up with a week old tv that did that. Usually, they have in home service for tv's that large. I wouldn't back down till you get it all sorted out.

My EW.Width was 11 out of the box in Geometry and I've set it to 9 to eliminate horizontal overscan. I have the Avia disc.

I guess no 2 sets are alike? But I thought that was a big difference between my set's EW.Width being 11 for default and yours being 21 for default.

Intersting... What is your V.Ampl set at? I have mine at 20 which does away most of the vertical overscan. It was 23 out of the box.

i hate this TV,
repairmen came out to fix it, after waiting 3 weeks for philips to send them a new small signal board, it works for 10 minutes, repairmen leaves. then the 1080i input dies.
I've had this TV for 2 months, and it hasn't worked yet, and philips could care less..
ok, enough ranting..

I have tested all of my inputs using my PC and they all work just fine. I would get another repair man to come look at it. there should be more than 1 authorised repair dealer in your area.

Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
I have tested all of my inputs using my PC and they all work just fine. I would get another repair man to come look at it. there should be more than 1 authorised repair dealer in your area.

how do you do that?
the TV's never worked, not the repairmen's fault.
the small signal board WAS dead, they replaced it, it worked, and something else blew it out again..
the TV is now 699 new at costco..

simple look in the phone book and call around asking if they are philips authorised or not. you can test your TV with a computer using any video card that has support for HDTV resolutions.

thanks, i knew how to call and find an authorized agent..

my video card doesn't have HDTV resolution, nor does it have component outs, which is why I was asking..

Originally posted by dag16
thanks, i knew how to call and find an authorized agent..

my video card doesn't have HDTV resolution, nor does it have component outs, which is why I was asking..

dag, was this ever resolved? I'm curious to know. I just purchased this TV and would like feedback on their customer service and your experience, I do hope you've gotten that fixed/replaced or have a different brand/model hdtv that you are happy with...thats gotta suck.

epking,
it depends on what you call "resolved"
after 3+ months of arguing, I finally threatened legal action and told them I was writing a letter to the BBB and AG of Mass about this, saying how they sold me crap, and since they distroyed the box it came in upon "delivery", they voided my return policy.
Finally, I got a call this morning(from my service center), that the TV would be replaced, in 4-5 weeks.
I explained how I bought this in March for HD baseball, and by the time I get it, not only will baseball season be basically over, but this TV has dropped well below the price I originally paid for it.
They won't tell me if I'm getting a better model, the same one, or a used one..
If it is the same model, and I don't get cash back form them, I will take this many levels higher than I already have and get what I think I'm owed.
But one thing's for sure, I am so annoyed with philips, I will never buy another product from them again, and if they don't upgrade my model significantly, I will make sure to trash them on every message board I can find.

In other words, their customer service is horrendous.
They sell crap, they know it, and they don't care..

thanks for the info dag, all info is good info. Its been ten days since i ordered mine, and it is being shipped direct from phillips factory, and its not here yet..lol. I have very much gathered that phillips customer service is absolutely atrocious, there are indeed a lot of stories like yours on the net. I do hope you end up somewhat happy with what you end up with.

I say good for you for given phillips hell....we need more ballbusters out there who won't take any bs from companies like that. cheers. on a positive note, the playoffs should look good in hdtv, and hopefully we'll both be watching;)

If you have a video card with DVI out (such as an ATI radeon 8500 retail card) then you can disassemble the DVA to VGA adapter and make your own DVI to component cable setup like I did

Works with my 8500 and my 9500 Pro cards

I use rage3dtweak to enable HDTV timings via custom display modes and refresh rate hacks in the registry
540p and 1080i work very well.

Originally posted by dag16
thanks, i knew how to call and find an authorized agent..

my video card doesn't have HDTV resolution, nor does it have component outs, which is why I was asking..

Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
If you have a video card with DVI out (such as an ATI radeon 8500 retail card) then you can disassemble the DVA to VGA adapter and make your own DVI to component cable setup like I did

Works with my 8500 and my 9500 Pro cards

I use rage3dtweak to enable HDTV timings via custom display modes and refresh rate hacks in the registry
540p and 1080i work very well.


wow, this is cool, I've never heard of this, wouldn't mind trying this, how is it done, I have a couple of extra converters..Is there a guide to doing this anywhere? or did you just figure out the pin connections and somehow wire one ends of the components onto it?

you need to get a diagram of the pinout of the VGA (search google)

I used VGA PINOUT and VGA to DVI pinout

thanks! I was able to manage this with a homeade spidf cable, this is a little bigger project, but sounds worthwhile and a cool mod. I appreciate the info.

Originally posted by YeuEmMaiMai
If you have a video card with DVI out (such as an ATI radeon 8500 retail card) then you can disassemble the DVA to VGA adapter and make your own DVI to component cable setup like I did

Works with my 8500 and my 9500 Pro cards

I use rage3dtweak to enable HDTV timings via custom display modes and refresh rate hacks in the registry
540p and 1080i work very well.

Very Cool.
how do I make my own DVI to component cable?
I haven't seen anything like this!
Thanks!

Not sure if this is a problem with my 30pw850h or a D* problem, but when I tune to ESPN-HD, I get a picture for about a second, then no video. The audio is still there, but no video. Any suggestions? Please advise. Thanks.

Originally posted by Baldone01
Not sure if this is a problem with my 30pw850h or a D* problem, but when I tune to ESPN-HD, I get a picture for about a second, then no video. The audio is still there, but no video. Any suggestions? Please advise. Thanks.

do your other HD channels come in? It sounds like your direct v reciever or whatever hdtv tuner you're using is not set to output properly. Then there could also be something weird with the tv not recognizing the aspect ratio of espnhd properly, but i doubt it...it is weird how espnhd frames their footage though, some kind of lame pillarboxing on their end.

All other channels display properly, including the HD channels-this is the only channel that doesn't. BTW, I'm using the Samsung TS360 D* receiver. Thanks again.

Never mind. I discovered my problem-the resolution switch on the 360 was in the wrong position to display ESPNHD in it's native resolution.

I know I'm sorta beating a dead horse now, but does anyone ahve any contact info at Philips?
Basically, after promosing to replace my TV, the customer service for Philips closed my service tag. I've called and reopened it, and they've closed it 2 more times.
In other words, they'r hoping that I'll just go away by doing nothing and being frustrated..
I want to take them to small claims court, but I don't have the time or energy for this right now. Does anyone have any suggestions for me on how to get this matter resolved?

filing a complaint via BBB or FTC may help. No company is clean! I bought Toshiba 30HF84 and its quality is terribe and it is even much worse than the 30PW850H I returned previously. After a whole month waiting and numerous calls, I even can't get any technician to service my brand-new TV. This is the last Toshiba product I will buy.

Hope some of you guys are still around...

I'm new to a couple of things, the forum and HDTV. Got my parents a new TV for Christmas last night. Found this Philips model at Sam's Club for a great price. Perfect for a starter set for them, as they are not too educated about these things, and the TV they're upgrading from is an old 19" RCA with only a coax cable input.

So I'm hoping for some advice here. I've read the first couple pages of this thread, and I intend to read the rest as I catch up to what is going on.

First things first. All we have hooked up to it right now is our Adelphia digital cable box. Am I crazy, or do the regular broadcast channels look worse on this set than they did on our 19" crap TV? It seems the higher channel I go to, the better the picture gets. Our ESPN News is channel 123, and looks almost High Def already. Our CBS is channel 3 and looks like an old UHF station from the '80s.

I assume this will all change when we get our Adelphia HD box, so I'm not too worried about it. Which brings me to my next question(s). What should I hook up into which inputs? These are the devices:


Adelphia HD Cable Box
Toshiba DVD player (fairly old)
Sega Dreamcast


Right now, the non-HD Cable Box (hopefully we'll get the HD box on Monday) is hooked up into AV2 via an S-Video cable and the red/white RCA cords. The DVD player is in AV1 via regular RCA cords and the Dreamcast is in AV3 on the side.

I'm going to be reviving this thread as I get used to the TV so I can make this a good experience for them.

My next post/question will be regarding the different screen options (wide, "super"wide, auto, etc...).

Thanks everyone!

-Matt

i bought an 840 about 2 weeks ago, but had to return it.

geometry was just rediculously bad on this tv.

according to some people in other threads it seems to be the way many of the 840/850's seem to be.
i'll get the replacement next week.
hopefully it wont be as bad.

oh, i found an interesting thread over at HTF.
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=185671

Originally posted by BustHDTV
First things first. All we have hooked up to it right now is our Adelphia digital cable box. Am I crazy, or do the regular broadcast channels look worse on this set than they did on our 19" crap TV? It seems the higher channel I go to, the better the picture gets. Our ESPN News is channel 123, and looks almost High Def already. Our CBS is channel 3 and looks like an old UHF station from the '80s.

I assume this will all change when we get our Adelphia HD box, so I'm not too worried about it. Which brings me to my next question(s). What should I hook up into which inputs? These are the devices:


Adelphia HD Cable Box
Toshiba DVD player (fairly old)
Sega Dreamcast


Right now, the non-HD Cable Box (hopefully we'll get the HD box on Monday) is hooked up into AV2 via an S-Video cable and the red/white RCA cords. The DVD player is in AV1 via regular RCA cords and the Dreamcast is in AV3 on the side.

It could be that your old tv itself was very fuzzy and hid the flaws of the signal better than the high res of the new set. I've got an antenna running into an hd box that also can tune in ntsc ota signals, but the tuner in the box isn't as good as the one in my tv (850H). When the antenna is hooked directly to my tv, I get a better analog picture than through component from my HD box (when tuning analog stations). Now, the signal problems you describe with the lower channels could be due to a bad cable signal to begin with. With the older tv's being more forgiving of a bad signal, you wouldn't notice it as much. I'd give the cable company a call and have a tech come out to check the signal strength. You may need to have an amplifier installed and or new cabling (RG6 preferably).


My next post/question will be regarding the different screen options (wide, "super"wide, auto, etc...).

Thanks everyone!

-Matt

4:3 - puts a pillerbox on the sides to display distortion free a standard program.
14:9 and 16:9 - cuts a little of the top and bottom to make a standard picture fit the screen with little pillarboxing (14:9) or no pillarboxing (16:9)
subtitle enhance, some weird zoom mode that i never use
superwide - non-linear strech of standard content to fit the screen; so things in the center remain mostly untouched, while things at the sides are streched out more
widescreen - used to correclty display anamorphic or 16:9 enhanced dvds and any other native widescreen format show (but not letterboxed widescreen which have the black bars embedded in the signal) and to show standard 4:3 content with a linear strech.
Auto, just automatically picks the best mode based upon the incomming signal to eliminate black bars. On standard 4:3 content, it picks superwide.

Hope this helps.
Ryan

Originally posted by whotony
i bought an 840 about 2 weeks ago, but had to return it.

geometry was just rediculously bad on this tv.

according to some people in other threads it seems to be the way many of the 840/850's seem to be.
i'll get the replacement next week.
hopefully it wont be as bad.

My set had almost perfect geometry out of the box (850H). I'm just putting one in the good column so other know its not just every one. Using the service menu, you should be able to adjust most of the geometry problems (but... standard warning, write down the original value before you change it).

Here are a few links to threads that deal with this tv:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=433127
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=430022
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=454904
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409199
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=425663
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=427327
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=409392
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=366742

Threads in the old archive
Service Menu Information
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=320711

Other topics
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=328178
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=304612
http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=309252

Happy Reading,
Ryan

Threads in the old archive
Service Menu Information
that link doesnt have a working link to any service manula.
and if they did work it was the regular manual anyhow.

Thanks for your help so far Ryan!

I want to get a couple of things out of the way right off the bat.

1. The DVD player I have hooked up is a Toshiba SD-2300. (I tried to post a link to some information regarding the DVD player, but the forum wouldn't let me. Just type in sd-2300 in google and the first links will provide a lot of info).


2. Which inputs correspond to: 480i, 480p, 1080i, and so on and so forth...


What I'm trying to figure out is what inputs are best for my sources. Which types of cables should I use for them?

Also, which settings to use when watching DVDs. I have the DVD player setup to 16:9 mode, so that is taken care of.

There is an option on the picture setup menu on the TV called "Digital Options". When should I use "Progressive", and when should I use "1050i lines"?

About the screen formats, when would I use "super wide"? "Widescreen" does indeed procude the best image for my WS DVDs, and I will always use 4:3 while watching TV until we get our HD box.

Man, I have so much to learn about all this new technology. Hope I can find some reading time at work this week. ;)


Also, I don't think I have any geometry problems at all with my 850H. Would they be glaringly obvious?

Originally posted by whotony
that link doesnt have a working link to any service manula.
and if they did work it was the regular manual anyhow.

Yeah, i was upset about that at the time. When I bought this tv back in september of 03, there was virtually no information for the philips service menu. I had called around to many different tv repair shops, but all either gave me the cold shoulder, or said I needed a special remote. I believe I provided the link to the forigen site that had some information in my original thread. Making tweaks to the geometry or to the color settings shouldn't require the manual anyhow, and the things that do require the manual, well I suppose there is good reason to need the manual and so I wouldn't adjust them anyways.

Originally posted by BustHDTV
Thanks for your help so far Ryan!
Your welcome. I'm trying to help out others with the knowledge i've gained, as when I first got this tv, there was no one to help me out, so I feel like I should help out others.



I want to get a couple of things out of the way right off the bat.

1. The DVD player I have hooked up is a Toshiba SD-2300. (I tried to post a link to some information regarding the DVD player, but the forum wouldn't let me. Just type in sd-2300 in google and the first links will provide a lot of info).


2. Which inputs correspond to: 480i, 480p, 1080i, and so on and so forth...


What I'm trying to figure out is what inputs are best for my sources. Which types of cables should I use for them?

Also, which settings to use when watching DVDs. I have the DVD player setup to 16:9 mode, so that is taken care of.

There is an option on the picture setup menu on the TV called "Digital Options". When should I use "Progressive", and when should I use "1050i lines"?

About the screen formats, when would I use "super wide"? "Widescreen" does indeed procude the best image for my WS DVDs, and I will always use 4:3 while watching TV until we get our HD box.

Man, I have so much to learn about all this new technology. Hope I can find some reading time at work this week. ;)


Also, I don't think I have any geometry problems at all with my 850H. Would they be glaringly obvious?

All inputs will accept a 480i signal. Both of the component inputs will accept 480p and 1080i as well.

To properly view widescreen dvd's, you have your equpment set correctly - dvd player to 16:9 and tv to "widescreen"

The "digital option" or "eye fidelity" is just the sets internal line doubler. This setting is only effective on 480i source material and when the picture mode is either 4:3 or "widescreen". Progressive doubles each line in each frame to make the image a progressive image at 60 full frames a second (525p) (instead of 60 half frames or 30 full frames as in interlaced). Interlaced or 1050i keeps the picture at 60 half frames, but each frame is bumped to 1050 lines of resolution or double ntsc. I've noticed very little difference in either option, so just set it to whatever you like.

I generally use superwide on regular 4:3 tv as I don't mind the strech and I like to have the picture fill the screen. Basically its a matter of personal preference. Fill the screen with some strech, or leave it OAR and have pillarboxing.

Merry Christmas to all of you!

Well, we got our HD box today and hooked it up to AV4 with the component cables. Truly breathtaking stuff. I don't see how anyone can complain about this set. If HD gets that much better, I might have to quit my job.

The DVD player is now in AV1 via the S-Video and regular RCA audio cables.

I love the HD programming. I really do.

Sorry to give this thread a four-month bump, but I bought one of these TVs in a recent Philips outlet deal and I'm having an issue. Basically, I want a non-widescreen 480p mode. Some of my console games do not support widescreen modes at all, and while 480p works, the aspect ratio is way off.

I figured out that I could revert to 480i and get a 4:3 mode, but the video quality is understandably much lower than in 480p. Does anyone know of a decent solution for this in the TV's settings? The Xbox' own settings don't make any difference for what I'm trying to do here.

Thanks!

Getting the HD Pack for the Xbox should make things MUCH better. Thats what I have w/this TV.

Already got that, as far as I understand that's the only way you can achieve 480p or the HD modes on the Xbox.

Originally posted by Finger83
Sorry to give this thread a four-month bump, but I bought one of these TVs in a recent Philips outlet deal and I'm having an issue. Basically, I want a non-widescreen 480p mode. Some of my console games do not support widescreen modes at all, and while 480p works, the aspect ratio is way off.

I figured out that I could revert to 480i and get a 4:3 mode, but the video quality is understandably much lower than in 480p. Does anyone know of a decent solution for this in the TV's settings? The Xbox' own settings don't make any difference for what I'm trying to do here.

Thanks!

Thats one of the short falls of this tv. There's no real way around it. The newer revisions of this tv allow aspect control in 480p.

I just purchased this tv as a "renewed" unit from the Philips outlet and I'm having a problem with it. In any dark scene, be it movie, game, or tv, I can see white lines going horizontally across the screen. Not just in one place, but from top to bottom. In other words, there is a line, a space, then another line, etc. It's not really apparent during a noramlly lit or bright scene (in fact, the picture looks great), but it's really annoying during the dark ones. For instance, in a dark game, like Doom 3, it is very distracting because I can see the lines constantly. I was just wondering if anyone else had this problem and if so, how did you fix it. I would hate to have to repackage this behemoth and send it back to be repaired. I'm new to this forum and HD in general, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

Originally posted by regdog1
I just purchased this tv as a "renewed" unit from the Philips outlet and I'm having a problem with it. In any dark scene, be it movie, game, or tv, I can see white lines going horizontally across the screen. Not just in one place, but from top to bottom. In other words, there is a line, a space, then another line, etc. It's not really apparent during a noramlly lit or bright scene (in fact, the picture looks great), but it's really annoying during the dark ones. For instance, in a dark game, like Doom 3, it is very distracting because I can see the lines constantly. I was just wondering if anyone else had this problem and if so, how did you fix it. I would hate to have to repackage this behemoth and send it back to be repaired. I'm new to this forum and HD in general, but any help would be greatly appreciated.

I believe a lot of the Philips TV's suffer from this. IIRC it's referred to as "jail bars"...I'm sure if you do a search you'll come up with some hits.

I have a 30" Philips pw850 model #. And I can see banding of light/dark lines vertically....not sure if the horizontal lines are the same issue. But I THINK it had to do with the power supplies being weak ?!?!? :confused:

Originally posted by regdog1
... In any dark scene, be it movie, game, or tv, I can see white lines going horizontally across the screen. Not just in one place, but from top to bottom....


Ding ding ding, and you've hit the other major problem with Philips CRTs. Almost all philips crts suffer from this. Its really hard to tell in the store, because the ambient light is so bright, but in a dark room with dark scenes, this problem surfaces. I've had my tv for about a 1 and a half and in that time, have had no luck finding a fix for this.

I also see the "jailbars" mine appear to be a greenish color and arent really that apparent unless the scene is completely black or very dark...The only thing I've had problems with so far is getting my personal settings the way I think they should look....Here is what I'm using now, if anyone would share what they have theirs set at I would appreciate it.

Brightness - 40
Color - 40
Picture - 80
Sharpness - 70

Granted I'm sure that once charter gets their butts out here to setup my hd service I would be able to set these a little easier and more accurate, but with just regular digital cable the picture color looks a bit washed out and the color seems to be a bit off to me. Probably just my settings.(hopefully just my settings)

Any advice would be appreciated.

Darren

I've noticed with HD sources, the color is better and more saturated. On digital sources that are not hd, the color does seem a bit washed out.

I believe a lot of the Philips TV's suffer from this. IIRC it's referred to as "jail bars"...I'm sure if you do a search you'll come up with some hits.

I have a 30" Philips pw850 model #. And I can see banding of light/dark lines vertically....not sure if the horizontal lines are the same issue. But I THINK it had to do with the power supplies being weak ?!?!? :confused:

The Philips web site has a Service Bulletin about the Jail Bars problem. Here's the text of the bulletin. Sorry, AVS won't let me post the URL until I have 5 posts :(


Symptom:
A few of model 30PW850H using the EM1.2U AA chassis may raise the complaint of "Jail Bars" in all inputs. While mild, these bars for top to bottom on the left side are annoying.

Cause:
Ringing in the Horizontal (line) deflection circuit.

Resolution:
Install 4835 310 57628 kit. While not set up as a valid part number as of February 28 2004, it will be available soon

Applies To:
30PW850H/37A, EM1.2U AA

Here's the link:
http://www.forceonline.com/products/bulletin.asp?BulletinId=2088&ProductId=5673

I wonder how I could get ahold of the kit mentioned? Anyone here an authorized Philips tech that could order the part for me?

You have to be a service center to get a login and password for their parts site.

I had my TV serviced for the jailbars issue and when I got it back I noticed a few things. This TV was purchased from the Philips outlet store and is still under the 90 day refurbished warranty.

The jailbars are gone but I notice that the leftside of the screen is slightly darker than the right side. Makes me think that what they did to fix the problem was make the left side darker. There's also a dark spot on the lower left corner of the screen. Sometimes this spot shows up as purple, other times black. Also, when I turn on the TV, it no longer degausses itself. I don't hear the same noise I heard before the TV was serviced. Perhaps degaussing will fix the dark spot?

Has anyone gotten the jailbars fixed? And if they did, does it still degauss itself everytime it turns on? Do you notice if the left side of the TV is slightly darker than the right?

My tv used to have a purple blob in the lower left corner that would show up after 10 or so minutes of use. I would turn off my tv, then turn it back on and it would go away. Someitmes with my tv, i've noticed if i turn it off, then back on in a quick sequence, it will not degauss. I think the set needs to be off for a few minutes before it will degauss on power on. Its good to hear that the fix did indeed fix the jailbars. This makes me want to get the kit even more. If I get the kit, i'll report back with my results. If the kit make the picture darker, I'll decide which I cannot stand the most and stay with that. Installing the kit myself, i'll be able to revert back if i want to.

On another subject, i've got the service manual for this set, and untill now didn't really have a way to distribue the file. I've created a torrent file and as of right now, i'm the only seed. If others want this file, i'd ask that you keep the bit torrent client open so that you can seed the file as well. The torrent is attached as a txt file, so just right click and click "save link as" (for firefox anyways) and in file type select all and save it as a .torrent and away you'll go.

Ryan

Ryan, you might want to give this guy a try

http://www.fixyourowntv.com/index.php

He can probably get you the kit and give you detailed instructions on how to do the install. His rates are more than reasonable for tech support.

My tv used to have a purple blob in the lower left corner that would show up after 10 or so minutes of use. I would turn off my tv, then turn it back on and it would go away. Someitmes with my tv, i've noticed if i turn it off, then back on in a quick sequence, it will not degauss. I think the set needs to be off for a few minutes before it will degauss on power on.

I've had my set for a few weeks now and I've gotten the purple blob in the lower left corner twice as well. Is it something I should be worried about? I have my receiver about 6 inches below that spot, so I had figured I was getting some magnetic interference or something from that. Power cycling the set fixed it both times, and it hasn't returned since.

Thanks for the torrent of the service manual. When I get off work I'll get it started on my home machine.

I've had my set for a few weeks now and I've gotten the purple blob in the lower left corner twice as well. Is it something I should be worried about? I have my receiver about 6 inches below that spot, so I had figured I was getting some magnetic interference or something from that. Power cycling the set fixed it both times, and it hasn't returned since.

Thanks for the torrent of the service manual. When I get off work I'll get it started on my home machine.

Count me in as one who has gotten the blob. Turning off the set does fix it. Haven't noticed the jail bars yet. Have had the set for almost 2 years.

I've had my set for a few weeks now and I've gotten the purple blob in the lower left corner twice as well. Is it something I should be worried about? I have my receiver about 6 inches below that spot, so I had figured I was getting some magnetic interference or something from that. Power cycling the set fixed it both times, and it hasn't returned since.

Thanks for the torrent of the service manual. When I get off work I'll get it started on my home machine.

I've had my set for a year and a half and havn't seen the blob for about a year.

Ryan, you might want to give this guy a try

http://www.fixyourowntv.com/index.php

He can probably get you the kit and give you detailed instructions on how to do the install. His rates are more than reasonable for tech support.

I'll look into that, thanks for the tip.

Ryan

I had my TV serviced for the jailbars issue and when I got it back I noticed a few things. This TV was purchased from the Philips outlet store and is still under the 90 day refurbished warranty.

The jailbars are gone but I notice that the leftside of the screen is slightly darker than the right side. Makes me think that what they did to fix the problem was make the left side darker. There's also a dark spot on the lower left corner of the screen. Sometimes this spot shows up as purple, other times black. Also, when I turn on the TV, it no longer degausses itself. I don't hear the same noise I heard before the TV was serviced. Perhaps degaussing will fix the dark spot?

Has anyone gotten the jailbars fixed? And if they did, does it still degauss itself everytime it turns on? Do you notice if the left side of the TV is slightly darker than the right?

Service guy came out to the apartment today and opened up the set. They forgot to plug in the connector for the rotation coil and the connector for the degaussing coil was a little loose. It's all good now.

I'll also add to what I said about the darker left side. It's very slight and very hard to notice.

I'll also add to what I said about the darker left side. It's very slight and very hard to notice.

So would you take the slightly darker side or the jail bars?

Definately the slightly darker side. You probably won't notice it at all. Jailbars show up too easily when the scene is dark and there's panning picture. You notice the stationary bars. It was worth the trouble to get it fixed.

I'm not saying that if people installed the kit they will have the same result as me. I do have a pretty old TV compared to a lot of people who have gotten refurbished TVs from the Philips outlet store.

I picked up this model at Walmart as an open box no return, as is, without a remote. I had the clerk plug it into a outlet and fire it up with a dvd player. It looked good so I figured what the heck, for $275.00 I've got a 2nd HDTV for the bedroom.

This was impulse buy. Had I read this thread and had the knowledge before hand, I probably would have passed this headache up.

At home I hooked it up to my dvd player thru component and fed it the AVIA disk. Wow, color and hue were right on, my Hitachi RPTV wasn't nearly as close unajusted.
Great picture from DVD, so far so good.

But.....

Problems.... It has the vertical jailbars on gray backgrounds but I don't really notice them with normal viewing that much. Just with AVIA and the gray fields for testing or static backgrounds.

Here's where I'm having serious problems, probably expensive problems.....

With CVI and AV4, or with only component inputs using 480p or 1080i the blue part of the signal is not present, I mean it is only feeding green and red with 480p or 1080i. So using a dvd player progressive output, or my Samsung HDTV box I only get green and red part of the signal displaying on the tv. When I set the DVD player, or the HDTV Box to 480i all of the signal passes correctly via component. Has anyone else had this problem and know what need done to solve it?

The last big problem is with feeding a 1080i signal. The right side of the screen has a 1 inch black vertical border displaying this.

I have a Philips universal remote to operate this thing. Has anyone had experience using one of these to get into the service menu?

This is a great thread, alot of useful information, forgive me if the answers are here or elsewhere, I'm still using the search to view the posts relating to this Philips TV.

Thanks

With CVI and AV4, or with only component inputs using 480p or 1080i the blue part of the signal is not present, I mean it is only feeding green and red with 480p or 1080i. So using a dvd player progressive output, or my Samsung HDTV box I only get green and red part of the signal displaying on the tv. When I set the DVD player, or the HDTV Box to 480i all of the signal passes correctly via component. Has anyone else had this problem and know what need done to solve it?

The last big problem is with feeding a 1080i signal. The right side of the screen has a 1 inch black vertical border displaying this.


This 1 inch black vertical border is probably just a geometry issue. You can probably move the picture over to cover this. My Samsung HDTV receiver has the ability to move the picture over in the menu. You might have that also. It could be that the TV's geometry is set right but the Samsung is off. Unless you have another 1080i source to check, I would just leave it and try to adjust the Samsung HDTV receiver.

I don't know about the color issue. I'm assuming when you say the blue part you mean the blue cable for component video which carries the difference of luminance and blue so the picture will miss the blue information (what used to be blue will show up as gray).

Uglywolf,

I have a samsung sir -t151. I don't believe I can center the picture via the samsung. I have not seen this option in the user menu.

Concerning the missing blue information via component with a 480p or 1080i source could it be possible that there is something in the service menu to address this? I am asking this because the blue information is there when the STB or DVD player is set to 480i.

Another question regarding this set... With the option in the user menu for I believe 480p or 1050i, I could be wrong with the terms, will the set itself take a 480i signal and turn it into a 480p for display. If so I could still use my dvd set at 480i and convert it to 480p with the set itself. I really don't see much difference when I use 480p or 1080i.

The more I think about it the more I am upset to have a HDTV that for some reason won't display a 1080i signal correctly. Well that's the gamble with store clearance such as this, you don't always have the necessary tools to adequately check it out before buying.

I may call a repairman to troubleshoot and give me an estimate, although I'm hoping someone may have an answer. Hopefully something is out of whack in the service menu and the blue signal can be activated in it,

I'll check the geometry issue if I can access the service menu with the Philips universal remote.

Thanks,

Uglywolf,

Concerning the missing blue information via component with a 480p or 1080i source could it be possible that there is something in the service menu to address this? I am asking this because the blue information is there when the STB or DVD player is set to 480i.

Another question regarding this set... With the option in the user menu for I believe 480p or 1050i, I could be wrong with the terms, will the set itself take a 480i signal and turn it into a 480p for display. If so I could still use my dvd set at 480i and convert it to 480p with the set itself. I really don't see much difference when I use 480p or 1080i.

I may call a repairman to troubleshoot and give me an estimate, although I'm hoping someone may have an answer. Hopefully something is out of whack in the service menu and the blue signal can be activated in it,

I'll check the geometry issue if I can access the service menu with the Philips universal remote.

Thanks,

Shouldn't this be under warranty? It probably is. All you need is the receipt. If it's under warranty, Philips will cover in home service. If they can't fix it in home, they'll pick it up and take it to the shop at their cost.

As for the using 480i and letting the TV convert to progressive, the difference is your DVD is sending out an analog signal and then the TV is converting that to progressive. If you set the DVD to progressive out, the DVD internally converts the signal digitally to progressive and sends it out. Quality should be better although it may not be noticable.

There are a lot of settings in the service menu for color. I don't know if that's the issue you have. It's best to have a service person take care of it. Have them fix the jailbars issue also. The same repair kit will fix the blooming issue. Keep in mind that there seems to be different settings for 480i, 480p and 1080i while some settings are shared between 480p and 1080i. It could explain why blue is there for 480i but not for 480p/1080i.

Uglywolf,

I will call Philips. It could be under warranty even though it is open box. The sales clerk at Walmart claimed it was a floor display and not a return. Yes, I'll definitely check this out.
It would be the best solution...
Blue component problem, jailbars and blooming.... may be repaired under warranty, WOW now that would make me a satisified Philips customer if they will stand by their product!

I'll report back if I have anything new.

Thanks,

As the person who started this thread over a year and 1/2 ago (Jan or Feb 2004??), I figured I'd do some digging and throw another issue out there to those who've had the TV for awhile:

Just recently, while on the HD input (I have a D* HD receiver hooked up to that input) I started noticing a "throbbing" or "pulsing" effect to the picture. The sides would pop in and out....not bend (as I've had that issue before especially with intense whites--i.e hockey ice) but THROB or POP.The picture will look fine for 5 seconds....and then BOOM....move inward ever so slightly (but noticeable to your eyes)....and then 2 seconds later POP back out to where it was before. After another 10 seconds or so....BOOM it happens again. This goes on and on. But....it's only on the HD input. Not on the other component input (where I have a DVR hooked up). I *was* going to switch the wires on the back of the TV to see if it would happen when I hooked up the DVR to the problematic input and if the HD receiver picture would be fine on the other Component Input....but I haven't had the time to start manuevering all the furniture necessary to do that.

I know there were power supply issues discussed months and months ago (seems like eons ago in real time!). Has anyone seen this before? Or something similar in other CRT's?? Again, it's only on the HD input, not on the other component or the S-video input (that I tested). It's starting to happen with more regularlity now. So I'm almost expecting the TV to crap out anytime soon as this wasn't an issue a mere week and 1/2 ago.

The set is NOT under any extended warranty....and replacing it would *probably* be the realistic option....but I'm curious as to what the issue *may* be....or if anyone else has seen anything similar.

Thanks!

This thread has officially taken Philips off my list of TV's to consider..

mine's been nothing but perfect since I got the original one replaced..
I shipped this TV halfway cross country on a comercial freight truck, simple wrapped in a matress egg crate and a couple of quilts, and it held up perfectly.

....not bend (as I've had that issue before especially with intense whites--i.e hockey ice) but....

I always have the bending with even very light colors. Only notice the faint 'jailbars' on verrryy dark scenes. Is this tv worth fixing?

I always have the bending with even very light colors. Only notice the faint 'jailbars' on verrryy dark scenes. Is this tv worth fixing?

I guess the million dollar question is: What's the "fix"? Do you have an extended warranty (or is it still under the original 1 year warranty)? Mine is out of warranty...I will have owned it for 2 years starting in February.

And, oddly, enough, the throbbing/pulsing I talked about a few posts us has disappeared over the last month.

Go figure.... :D

Unfortunately, mine is out of warranty. I'm just curious as to if the jailbars & the bending are both power supply related & could be fixed w/the jailbar kit?

i just bought a refurb 30PW850H from the philips outlet last week. it was shipped from TX and it came in here in CA on the two days ago on the 28th. came with a wrong remote. how in the hell can they put the wrong remote with a TV set. i would think they would at least check to see if the remote work with the TV before they package it. talking about terrible service. i have been on the phone with customer service for two days. from all the readings, their customer service is one of the worse. didnt expect this from Philips. i thought they were more reputable than this. wasted about 2 hrs of my life on the phone with these people without a resolution. terrible. finally today i got a decent customer service. he put in an order for a new remote, but it will take 7-10 business day to get here. ouch....

luckily i got a DTV remote that is able to work on the Philips, but no screen size button. i have to use TV menu button to switch between mode. what a hassle.

im only using s-video and viewing 480i. looks ok. tested DVD movies. looks fine. tested dark scene movie like Underworld. i do not see the bars. my unit was made on April 2004. it was refurbished completed on 12-13-05. oh i do see some ghosting from the DTV feed. not sure if this is normal or from the TV itself, but it is not super bad where it is very annoying. and not on every channel.

i cant check the service menu setting. until i get my new remote. commonly, i have a 90 day warranty on this set. will get a 2 year extended warranty from warrantech.

this is my first Philips TV. will probably be the last. unless they practically give it for free. lol

on the 850h models, there is no screen size button. You use the left, right buttons to scroll through the sizes, so your remote can navigate the menu, then you can also change screen sizes.

thanks for the info oryan.

you would think they would have one. talking about a feature that is needed badly. well doing it via the remote will be a lot better than walking up to the TV and pressing the rigid big button ontop of the set.

anybody else recently got this refurbish 30PW850H99 ( actual model 30PW850H37A ) online? it was $359 with free shipping. did it arrived ok and did you have any problem?

i only see these models now 30PW8402/37B and 30PW8420/37B listed for $388 with free shipping.

Oryan, (or anyone else)

I just set up my hdtv yesterday just in time for the superbowl. while watching the game, i would see these translucent lines next to the players. Does anyone know why this happens? I tried changing the component cables to a higher quality Belkin Pure AV component cable and it still remained. Actually, it was worse with the better interconnects.

Any comments you guys might have is appreciated. Thanks!

Joe

anybody else recently got this refurbish 30PW850H99 ( actual model 30PW850H37A ) online? it was $359 with free shipping. did it arrived ok and did you have any problem?

i only see these models now 30PW8402/37B and 30PW8420/37B listed for $388 with free shipping.

I got the 30PW8420/37B from Philips Outlet about a month ago. My only problem was that the shipping company apparently "lost" the shipment for a few days. When it arrived, however, the box was on its own palette, and the set was thoroughly padded. The set looks and functions like brand new. My only functional complaint is the power supply issue discussed on this board. Briefly, when a bright source like a sky is displayed, the sides of the image will pincushion in that area, due apparently to an inadequate power supply. That's only occasionally noticeable, however.

Since the TV's a refurb, and given the stories I've read about dealing with Philips customer service, I decided to get an extended warranty. I got a three-year deal from an online warranty outfit for $58, which is in line with the cost of the warranty offered by Sam's on a new 8420.

Well, **FINALLY** I got my jail bars kit from a local tv repair shop. I had ordered it last summer/fall (can't remember its been so long ago) from a tv shop that would actually just sell me the part, and not require them to do the service. I'll take pics and post them when I get home. It is basically a few capacitors and other components and a new flyback transformer. I'll have to work up the balls to replace that one. I've got a friend that has done TV repairs for years, so I'll consult with him before I do anything.

I've actually not noticed the jail bars for quite some time. I'm sure they are there, just i've grown used to them. I'll have to consider if it is worth all the work to replace those parts or not.

Here's what came in the kit:

http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8001/jailbarskit1600x1200mm4.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jailbarskit1600x1200mm4.jpg)

I've had the 30pw850H for over a year now and have had nothing but perfect results with it since. No jailbars, no throbbing, nothing. Just a great picture that has turned me into a couch potato.

Hello, I've had this TV (30PW850H37A) for a long while now but never go around to fixing the overscan. I just found out how to get into the service menu and I think I've adjusted the overscan fairly well vertically but I haven't been able to do as well horizontally. I think it's because I don't see a horizontal zoom choice like there is for verticall. How can I make it zoom in less left to right?
Thanks for any help.

You can't. There is no horizontal amplitude adjustment on this set. I believe it is possible if you open the set; its a hardware control.

I just enherited one of these sets from my brother... if... if I can get the geometry fixed that he screwed up. I can get to the service menu, and I can get it adjusted to a somewhat "watchable" picture. As far as I can tell, there is no way to reset the settings to factory default. Would it be possible for someone to PLEASE list all the geometry settings for me??...(widescreen-480,1080i Superwide-480p,1080i 4:3-480p,1080i)... I think those are all of them. If there are more, please add them. This is kind-of a desperate last resort and I probably should have searched here first before spending hours adjusting the stupid thing over and over... ei-yie-yie. I know this will involve some decent effort on someone's part so I can pay a small fee if anyone's intrested. I would be VERY greatful if anyone could help me out here.
Thanks,
Dave

I did say please... in big letters. Do I have to beg?? Can no one help me?? Please?????

Any help at all would be appreciated. Anything at all. Anything.

Thought I'd give this a bump in case anyone decided to feel sorry for me and help me out.:)

Update:
I've got my server back up, but it's at a new IP:
http://12.206.130.40/PhilipsSM/

I should have it back on the old IP soon, but I've had so many requests for manuals, I figured it was easier to put it back up temporarily.

How do you enter the service menu?

How do you enter the service menu?

0-6-2-5-9-6-exit

Well folks, for those many thousands of you who have been waiting in suspense to see my results from the jail bars kit install, your wait is over!

I was fairly content with my TV as it was, but I needed to take it apart to troubleshoot another problem. So, while I was at it, I decided to install the kit.
Here's the contents of the kit:
http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8001/jailbarskit1600x1200mm4.th.jpg (http://img224.imageshack.us/my.php?image=jailbarskit1600x1200mm4.jpg)
The kit was missing a 3.3kOhm 1/3 watt resistor, so I had the same TV shop order that part as well, since I wanted to make sure that the install went by the book.

Anyways, here's the set with the back off:
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/4257/philipstv001ea7.th.jpg (http://img120.imageshack.us/my.php?image=philipstv001ea7.jpg)
I took many pictures of the install so that I would have a resource to go to if I forgot where one of the many connectors went to. It paid off as I had to reference them when I was reinstalling the components.


This install was not without its minor heart attacks. My major screwup was when I was taking off and reinstalling the flyback, I broke off one of the pcb leads going to one of the pins. Luckily, it was the only trace in that part of the board, so I was able to jumper it with another solder point on that same trace with a wire. I ran into this situation because I was working late at night and didn't have any solder tape. So it took a very long time to take off the old flyback since the pins are all stationary and I had to go around and slowly inch out each pin. This is what weakened the trace causing it to eventually break. Disaster averted.
Many pics during the disassembly:
http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/768/philipstv002ut7.th.jpg (http://img246.imageshack.us/my.php?image=philipstv002ut7.jpg)
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/5339/philipstv004bs7.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=philipstv004bs7.jpg)
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/593/philipstv005ml9.th.jpg (http://img219.imageshack.us/my.php?image=philipstv005ml9.jpg)
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9293/philipstv006dz3.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=philipstv006dz3.jpg)
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/7852/philipstv007fv4.th.jpg (http://img84.imageshack.us/my.php?image=philipstv007fv4.jpg)
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/4827/philipstv008ph5.th.jpg (http://img88.imageshack.us/my.php?image=philipstv008ph5.jpg)
http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/9751/philipstv010po0.th.jpg (http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=philipstv010po0.jpg)

Looking back, I should have taken pics as I was working on the actual soldering, but I was somewhat fustrated and didn't think about it. I did have my first experience removing and installing a surface mount resistor. It wasn't all that bad, but the installation of the flyback was harder, just because of the lack of proper tools. After this install, I wonder why I needed to install a new flyback anyways. It seems like the capacitors and resistors would have more of an effect on the jail bars than the flyback. Oh well, its in and it works. The first time I turned it on, I didn't see anything and was kinda freaked out. It turns out I just needed to adjust the screen to get a picture then adjust both the vertical and horiontal focus nobs. Then I was concerned because my overscan horizontally was way out of control, at like 11% on both sides. I just needed to make some adjustments to the geometry, no doubt a result of the new flyback.

The problem that prompted me to initiate this is a very strange problem with my component inputs.
http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/1903/philipstv014pd0.th.jpg (http://img91.imageshack.us/my.php?image=philipstv014pd0.jpg)
A signal on AV4 (upper component) would always be fine. A signal from CVI (lower component) would be fine only if something was not plugged into AV4. If something was plugged into AV4 and I was tuned to CVI, I would sometimes get these pink horizontal lines that would start somewhere in the middle of the picture and go for the rest of the line to the right. It seemed to appear right as a transition from blue to white or other colors. These pink lines could be altered and be made to disappear by moving the wire plugged into AV4 around. This told me that it was a connection problem. So, a few months ago I took the TV apart to resolder the upper component leads. This didn't really seem to do anything, so that is why I decided to dig a little deeper. It looks like the signal from CVI is routed to the board behind AV4. I was able to remove the actual female interconnects from the board and took out the innter connect from each pin. I bent these so that they made a better connection. After reassembly, this seemed to fix that problem.

So, all in all, I'm glad I tackled this project as my TV is now much better and isn't quite as annoying. My jail bars are mostly gone. You'll remember that they appeared mainly on the left side and there were several of them several inches apart. There are no bars on the left side at all, but there is one very small faint one on the right side. I'll take that trade any day.

Okay I still have this old thing as my main TV in the living room. I currently subscribe to Dish Network HD-DVR (VIP 622DVR) and I have a Toshiba DVD player (SD-k860).

1. Okay I have my Dish hooked up to AV1 Component cables and Dish set to 1080i

2. My DVD is in AV4 Component and set to 480P


My problem is GEOMETRY. Is was totally off for both conections. I am able to go into the service menu but I am lost once I get to the geometry menu. Can someone explain each entry that is made their and what it does (ie VertAmp ...etc...)

My best setting for AV1 curently are (i still have weird pincushion/trapazoid and wavy scrolling text in the middle)

VerAmp 38
Ver S 0
VerSlo 63
ServBl Off
HorShift 15
HorBow 33
HorPa 30
EWWidth 17
EWPara 13
EWTrap 38
EWUcorn 0
EWLcorn 0
VerShift 0
VerZoom 12
VerScroll 31

With the default my 480P AV4 was only showing the bottom right of picture zoomed in to fit the screen, really weird. I am still trying to fix AV4 and I have the Avia disk too to help but without knowing what the geometry means it is useless.

dragerfroe, Have you been able to tweek the geometry any better? I have in herited one of theses TVs from my brother who had went into the SM and screwed the geometry up terrible. There is no way that I know of to set this TV back to factory default. Would it be possible for you to post your geometry settings for each input and for each screen ( for every input there are different settings for GEOMETRY, 4:3, SUPERWIDE).
I'm hoping to find some way to finally get this set calibrated or else pretty I'm just gonna set it out on the curb. I even paid a site to send me a portion of the service manual that deals with the geometry settings. They sent me the wrong manual and of course after they got my money, stopped answering my e-mails.
Can any one please help me.

Here is my original thread on this TV. Its older and cannot be replied to as it is in the archive, but I've detailed much information that I knew at the time.

http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=320711&highlight=30PW850H

I do have the service manual for this set and when I get back to my house after Christmas, I'll be able to put the manual up on yousendit for you guys to grab. I should have my own FTP server, but I've not had the time to get one going on Linux yet. The service manual for this set is 60MB, rather huge.

Thanks oryan_dunn! Awaiting that manual with baited breath. Please instruct how to retrieve and download the file containing the manual. I have never used yousendit.
Thanks again.

Actually, I'll need your email. I upload the file to yousendit, then they send an email to you with the download link. The link will only be available for seven days. When you get the link, you can post that link here, and others will be able to download the file as well. 90% of the manual is a combination of a reprint of the user manual and the schematics and physical layout of the PCBs. There is only a small segment on electronic adjustments, unfortunately, probably what you already know.

alternatenumber1-dmc@yahoo.com

Here's an e-mail for ya. Thanks again.

Ok, the file will be on yousendit for 7 days. Here is the link:
http://download.yousendit.com/50F7E56471B3151C

Thanks again Ryan :).

I do have the service manual for this set and when I get back to my house after Christmas, I'll be able to put the manual up on yousendit for you guys to grab. I should have my own FTP server, but I've not had the time to get one going on Linux yet. The service manual for this set is 60MB, rather huge.

Is it still possible for me to get a copy of the manual for the Philips 34PW850H?
I do have the torrent file you posted earlier if someone would like to re-seed it. You also mentioned "yousendit". If still available my address is "tony@tubetronic.com". I also tried the FTP link in an earlier post with no luck.

Thanks,
Tony

I'd like the manual too please... Pretty Please?

If anyone still has the service manual could you send it to me as well?

Thanks

I am in search of the service manual for the 30PW9100D - if there is a link out there or someone could send it, I would be greatful! Thanks.

I've not had time to get my own server up, so I'll post this link. I uploaded the manual (EM1.2U AA) to megaupload:
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=EG93AO4E

Oh, and the consumer info on this set can be found here:
30": http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/3/30pw850h/
34": http://www.p4c.philips.com/files/3/34pw850h/

I am in search of the service manual for the 30PW9100D - if there is a link out there or someone could send it, I would be greatful! Thanks.

See this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11703424#post11703424

Anyone care to share their "smart settings" for this television model, 30PW850H? I know its kind of old now...
On Avia I calibrated and came up with
Brightness: 44
Color: 30
Picture: 60
Sharpness: 0
Tint: -1
This was done via component video at 480p.
The only hard part I have with this is Picture/Contrast. I have a hard time telling if I'm I'm setting too far high.

im just assuming that if you calibrate your tv and i have the same model ..we can share the values???or atleast the one that worked for you

if so can anyone post the values for AV4 1080i

im soon getting Avia and i hope is noob friendly so i can calibrate my tv correctly...

thanks in advance for anyone that helps



P.S. Woot my first post

You may be able to get a decent calibration based on someone else's values, but you wont get it 100% (or even 90%). CRT is an analog tech and as such each set will be unique. You'll need to run the AVIA disk yourself to get it dialed in.

Hi, I have a problem with a philips FM242 and require a service manuel, could you please send me a copy, I would apprieciate any help, thanks.


My tv used to have a purple blob in the lower left corner that would show up after 10 or so minutes of use. I would turn off my tv, then turn it back on and it would go away. Someitmes with my tv, i've noticed if i turn it off, then back on in a quick sequence, it will not degauss. I think the set needs to be off for a few minutes before it will degauss on power on. Its good to hear that the fix did indeed fix the jailbars. This makes me want to get the kit even more. If I get the kit, i'll report back with my results. If the kit make the picture darker, I'll decide which I cannot stand the most and stay with that. Installing the kit myself, i'll be able to revert back if i want to.

On another subject, i've got the service manual for this set, and untill now didn't really have a way to distribue the file. I've created a torrent file and as of right now, i'm the only seed. If others want this file, i'd ask that you keep the bit torrent client open so that you can seed the file as well. The torrent is attached as a txt file, so just right click and click "save link as" (for firefox anyways) and in file type select all and save it as a .torrent and away you'll go.

Ryan

I wish I could, but I only have the manuals for a couple of the CRT sets. I found mine on a dutch auction site several years ago. You could try searching the internet for a manual using the chassis number on the back of the set.

I picked up a 34PW850H off Craigs List yesterday for $95 and as I suspected it has a bit of an issue.

When there is text on the screen it often has black lines across the screen through the text. This is only in 1080i mode. Most regular programming has no evident problems but especially in commercials and news programs when text is on the screen there are the black lines.

Anyone have any ideas?

I picked up a 34PW850H off Craigs List yesterday for $95 and as I suspected it has a bit of an issue.

When there is text on the screen it often has black lines across the screen through the text. This is only in 1080i mode. Most regular programming has no evident problems but especially in commercials and news programs when text is on the screen there are the black lines.

Anyone have any ideas?

I used to have my PC hooked up to the component input and was feeding 1080i. If the connector in the back of my PC was loose, I'd see horizontal lines that would start at some point in the picture and continue to the right. Adjusting the connector for a better fit, would usually solve the issue.

I'd try looking at the source/cabling. It could also be a solder joint that has gone bad on the input. Have you tried pluming the component leads into both CVI and AV4 to see if the issue follows the input?

Yes it occurs on both inputs, I assumed it was a bad component in the digital system.

I'll try changing the cables.

Occasionally when there is text and video in background, the picture also looks like it is rolling, i.e., there are two vertically compressed images on the screen, when the scene changes it pops back to normal.

First, let me say thank you a million times, thank you - to oryan_dunn, I recently tried to calibrate my tv and lost my defaults due to power failure (they were in an unsaved .txt doc) and I've spent the past few days reading through a few years worth of posts by you and have finally gotten my TV back.

Second, the solution to anyone looking to get rid of overscan in 1080i mode is you're just gonna have to live with it. I recently tried to alter the settings because I got an XBOX 360 and playing games sucks with this TV because sometimes valuable information is lost (such as how many stars I have in GTA) or I have to play in an inferior 480p (looks better than SD, but def. not HD)

Last, for anyone who is looking for it I have a .pdf version of the service manual (EM1.2U AA). I used it for the Philips 30PW850H, but it seems to also work with similar models. This file does not have the default geometry, widescreen, etc settings in it. Just so you know. Honestly, I was very disjointed because it doesn't really tell you anything that was posted more clearly by oryan_dunn, so just look at his post.

----------service manual link--------w-w-w-mediafire-c-o-m----
/file/iznezhrzmef/EM1.2U AA Service Manual.pdf
-----------------------------------
---sorry about the link, i just joined and can't post a link properly yet.

Oh, and if anyone has the official "factory defaults" for the 1080i geometry, I would greatly appreciate it if they were posted or mailed.

****
Final thoughts:

I kinda regret buying this TV. I really jumped the HD gun. no 720p (or 1080p for that matter). no dvi, hdmi, digital tuner... but then again I was the only one of my friends with an HD TV back in 03. (when it cost 900 bucks!)
If for some odd reason you're reading this forum and thinking about buying this TV: only buy if you want the minimum quality HD 'experience' and you're not expecting much.

First, let me say thank you a million times, thank you - to oryan_dunn, I recently tried to calibrate my tv and lost my defaults due to power failure (they were in an unsaved .txt doc) and I've spent the past few days reading through a few years worth of posts by you and have finally gotten my TV back.


When you say defaults, do you meant the default geometry settings in the service menu? I've had this tv for quite a while, and the geometry settings have been messed up for just as long. I have it in the bedroom, where the wife doesn't mind watching it the way it is in there.
I have tried a few times a long time ago to figure out how to reset them, but it is just too hard to figure out when every setting seems to effect something else.
If you know what the default settings are for the geometry, could you please post them?
TIA

Oh, and if anyone has the official "factory defaults" for the 1080i geometry, I would greatly appreciate it if they were posted or mailed.
Default geometry on a CRT may not be much better than what you have now. Since CRTs are an analog display, each one can vary, and that throws a wrench into "default" settings. I don't know if any exist, but you could look for a guide on adjusting a CRT computer monitor. The steps should be basically the same, whether you would adjust size or trapazoid first, or if you should adjust this before that, etc.

Second, the solution to anyone looking to get rid of overscan in 1080i mode is you're just gonna have to live with it. I recently tried to alter the settings because I got an XBOX 360 and playing games sucks with this TV because sometimes valuable information is lost (such as how many stars I have in GTA) or I have to play in an inferior 480p (looks better than SD, but def. not HD)
I agree, this TV is fine for 1080i movies and TV, but really does suck for games. The horizontal overscan in 1080i mode cannot be adjusted. I even read through most of the schematics looking for an analog adjustment, and found none. There is a pot that is on the back end of the flyback, and I was thinking that might reduce the horizontal span, but it just moved the picture up or down. I was very disappointed. I've since moved on to a shiny new LCD for games. I do miss the black-levels and color reproduction this set can deliver though.


Final thoughts:

I kinda regret buying this TV. I really jumped the HD gun. no 720p (or 1080p for that matter). no dvi, hdmi, digital tuner... but then again I was the only one of my friends with an HD TV back in 03. (when it cost 900 bucks!)
If for some odd reason you're reading this forum and thinking about buying this TV: only buy if you want the minimum quality HD 'experience' and you're not expecting much.

I don't at all. I know it was expensive back in the day, but I've got 6 years worth of HD viewing from it. I had HD at least 3 years before anyone else I knew.

Ok OD, thanks for the comments about the geometry. I do have a printout of the service manual on how to adjust it. It's just that there are SO MANY adjustments accross all the inputs, so it will take me a long time to get the job done. I would basically need a whole day by myself with no interuptions to get it done. With a wife, and 2 kids (2 yrs and 4 yrs old), I havn't been able to find that kind of free time over the last couple years :rolleyes::D
Maybe some day...