Hello,

I've decided to repost the result from my 'dead colors on X1' thread under a new subject heading in order to give more visibility to a potential issue with colors and brightness on your X1 that can be otherwise avoided with a simple maintenance procedure.

I felt that my X1 was going downhill and that a service call to InFocus was inevitable because of the poor color saturation and the awful brightness/contrast I was getting.

After many tries with different paints my final attempt with Home Depot Ultra Pure White revealed that the X1 was putting out poor and uncalibratable colors, brightness and contrast.

The procedure is actually very simple. You'll need a bunch of soft q-tips and a small dap of water to wet the tip.

1. Use the same procedure for removing and cleaning the bulb chassis screen provided by InFocus to remove the bulb chassis (small flat head screwdriver, pop open the door, disconnect the white power cable and unscrew two screws on top left and bottom right holding the bulb chassis in.)

2. When you remove the bulb chassis, you will see a dust cave in the void that was occupied by the bulb chassis. I recommend that you do not attempt to brush or wipe the dust away while looking down in it. Instead, I recommend that you wipe it with the opening upside down (unit on it's side). Yes you might get some dust in your face but it sure beats having dust on your optics (that will really suck).

3. After you finish the bulb screen maintenance (vacuum that fine lung clogging dust from the screen) take a look at your colorwheel with a nice bright light shining overhead. If you dont see anything and its completely dark, move your big head out of the way.

Now once you see the colorwheel, do you see this?

http://members.shaw.ca/technut/x1faq/photos/tn_P6010066.JPG

If your colorwheel looks hazy, dusty, or does not show the colors of red-green-blue-clear or your color wheel looks nothing like the picture - you got a problem. Basically, your colorwheel surface must look like the surface of a mirror, like the one in the picture above, if you were to have the best colors and contrast.

** UPDATE
Through a thread started by Guy Kuo in the >$3500 forum, we are starting to find that the contamination may be a result of plastics gassing or giving off fumes that are ending up on the colorwheel. The gassing is most likely coming from the plastic housing of the bulb itself.

4. If yours doesn't, I assume thats the reason why you read on, go grab your wife/gf/SG's box of q-tips and start cleaning.

- Wet the q-tip so that it is DAMP. Not dripping with water. Water + PJ electronics = BAD

- With a very light stroke, rub the colorwheel glass with your q-tip. We're talking about very light stroke here..not your average-paint-removing-deoxidizing-rubbing compound method. Too much force will gaurantee you a service call to InFocus.

The q-tip will not stand this kind of abuse very long and will become frizzy. Replace it and get another. Wife's got plenty of them. You dont want that frizzy stuff in the PJ. Frizzy stuff caught in colorwheel = bad

Turn the wheel as you wipe off the dust. The wheel turns freely. Dont worry, that color change isn't the color coming off, its the dust. Youre unveiling the true colors of the wheel and restoring your faith in the X1.

You'll notice that with the wet q-tip alone, its not a very nice job. In fact, it looks like a mess you just made. Once you have loosen the dirt with the wet q-tip and removed the dirt, you'll need to go over it again with a dry q-tip to buff it to a shine. See picture again. Shine.

After youre done, take a look at the clear glass on the bulb chassis in which the light shines through, that should be clean too.

Slide the bulb chassis back into the PJ. Make sure the chassis is sitting down properly and that the screws are aligned. You might need to back out the screws a little more in order for the chassis to sit in correctly.

Reconnect the white power cable and carefully snap the door back in place.

Power up, recalibrate, and observe the colors. You may hear some colorwheel noise after your initial powerup but it should go away after 5 min.

Please keep in mind that this procedure is omitted from the owner's manual from InFocus. I feel that it should be but the delicate nature of the colorwheel may have reserved this maintenance for service centers. Do it at your own risk!


Thanks to Dennis Gardner for his feedback and fix for my issue.

Nice Post Speedy,

If you haven't done this at 1000 hours or more I challenge each of you to look closely at the wheel. They buildup worse than you could imagine!

I found this to be my problem at about 1200 hours of abuse (too lazy to take it down from the ceiling). This really made huge differences in color, brightness and contrast. I was able to return my settings back 6-8 settings in each category with the cleaning.

I wonder how many X1 owners just think their bulbs are getting dim, when really it is a haze on the color wheel?

I plan on doing this at 250 hour intervals from now on with the normal dust screen cleaning.

Thanks again @ 1440 hrs. & still happy with my X1,

Dennis

I am nervous about doing this to my X1, but at the same time curious to try it. Anyone with any reasons NOT to do this?

JayW

5 year warranty and overnight repairs should calm your worries.

Unless you live in a dust free environment, you eventually won't have a choice.

Thanks for the post Speedy! Excellent job.

BTW, I'm at 600+ hours and getting ready to do the filter cleaning (again) and look at my colorwheel.

This might be a good thread to bump up every now and then for X1er's.

I believe this may apply to all DLP owners.

Originally posted by SpeedyHTPC
I believe this may apply to all DLP owners.
You're right; the thread title reflecting that fact might be a good idea.

Originally posted by bholio
1) I'm not sure what I am seeing in the picture.

2) Is the clear section of the color wheel the most visible in your picture? That is, you clean the section which is visible in the lower-roud-cutout with the black square behind it? Then spin the wheel a little to expose the next section?

3) Can anyone confirm that a brand new color wheel is nice and clear? That cleaning isn't removing an important coating of some sort? I know it sounds silly, but I'm paranoid.



1) Youre seeing the colorwheel in a position in which the clear segment is over the DMD light opening. That is completely clear and also known as the "white segment".

2) Yes the clear segment is currently over the black square. Yes and yes.

3) The picture above is from technut's FAQ. That is a picture of a new (or very little used) colorwheel as far as I'm concerned. It has no dust on the center gold hub. You may start seeing the dust buildup after 250 interval hours of operation. And no, you are not removing any special coating if there is one. As I understand it the glass has the colors "baked" into it at a very high temperature. Technut's faq has this info. Using water to dust it off will not harm anything.

We have hard water in my area, and the water made the picture more hazy. I even buffed after the water. I ended up using alcohol to clean the color wheel. Made everything squeaky clean.

Yup..Hard water = bad. I used bottled water.
What % alcohol did you use?
Bump!

Did you clean both sides of the colorwheel? It looks like the in-side is not easy to get to. Or is it dirty on one side only?

I think you just sold me an NEC LT240K with sealed optics...:)

Deja vu all over again. Like what I had to do to all those "guest" Kodak Carousel(tm) projectors before presentations, most of my architecture career. Sometimes I really ticked the host/hostess off by cleaning the rental projector's lenses/prisms/bulb, whatever. Like,"engraved" fingerprints and even DUSTBUNNIES man. Always used an alcohol-based Kodak lens-cleaner(specially-buffered for coatings), and a clean, white, much-washed linen handkerchief(NEVER tissue, even "lens" tissue).
FWIW,
AMc
PS: Same for all my Nikon F2 lenses except, um, the less cleaning you can get by with, the better. All my lenses are cherry after 30 years of use.
PPS: Even further off-topic, just learned that ordinary 35mm color film, ISO 200 speed, is the equivalent of 18 megapixels....
A.

Originally posted by rickster904
Did you clean both sides of the colorwheel? It looks like the in-side is not easy to get to. Or is it dirty on one side only?
Anyone have an answer to this?
JayW

I found mine dirty on the outside only. Once cleaned, it was crystal clear again. Those having apprehension about this task just need to tackle it and see how simple it really is. The only things that could go wrong is if you put too much pressure on the glass causing it to crack, or use too much liquid and let it drip underneath the area that you can't reach. This might cause smears that you couldn't get to without opening the case.

I would suggest trying long Qtips to make it easier to reach into the narrow bulb housing.

I have heard even a broken wheel got covered by warranty.

Dennis

Originally posted by dmcdayton
I think you just sold me an NEC LT240K with sealed optics...:)

I thought about sealed optics. Does it seal the colorwheel and bulb together? Since it has a lot of heat, I would think theres some kind of airflow to the bulb. Is the colorwheel sealed within the optic chamber on the LT240K/LT260/HT1000?

I have to admit it. I just cleaned my colorwheel and the results were pretty darned impressive. When I looked at the colorwheel it had a sort of hazy look to it. As I took a dampened Q-Tip to it I was worried that I was taking the dye off the wheel. That's how dramatically different the wheel looked as it was cleaned. Nervously I continued cleaning. I buffed it up as well as I could and the wheel actually looked Red/Green/Blue/Clear. Before cleaning the colors looked like Magenta, Cyan, Brown and Murky. Put it back together and the old projector looks much more vibrant. I guess I'm a believer. I can't believe that Infocus doesn't recommend this themselves. I only have 4 1/2 months and 745 hours on my projector. I shudder to think what the wheel would look like at 4,000 hours. Anyway, thanks for the tip! I guess I'll do this every 250 hours when I clean the filter.

JayW
P.S. Somebody from Infocus want to weigh in on this? Technut: This is a candidate for your unofficial FAQ.

P.P.S. I dont' think my room is particularly dusty. The filter is never all that dirty. A bit of very fine white dust is all I see each time I clean.

Jay,

Glad to see that we speak the truth. More times than not, in the past 3-4 months when this solution has been suggested by myself, most have dismissed it as, "surely that couldn't be what my problem is" since they don't want to pull it down to really inspect. Many think that there bulb is dimming and actually have replaced the bulb with less improvement.

It really is a simple, effective maintenance procedure that should be outlined by Infocus, since they designed it this way.


Another convert Speedy,:D


Dennis

Sealed optics keep dust from collecting on some internals, but dust buildup is unnavoidable anytime that a fan is used to cool. Look at the buildup in the PC that you are sitting next to. Even the lens gets its share of dust, it is just easier to see and wipe down.

When using these products for HT, we expect the max performance from them, and notice any minute level of detail lost. I doubt that the normal presenter using a small dlp would notice the degradation that we catch when critically surveying our DVD experience.

Originally posted by dmcdayton
I think you just sold me an NEC LT240K with sealed optics...:)

It isnt THAT sealed. The color wheel is still exposed to this kind of contamination. Dust can still get sucked into optical chamer when you adjust the lens. The foam won't stop everything. Eventually even the "sealed optics" get dirty.

I just popped open my lamp today, the color wheel is spotless, but then again, im only at 150 hours...

I cleaned the filters at 100 hours, and there was very little dust anyhow, maybe there isnt much dust where i mounted it...

My x1 has 700+ hours and lamp screen cleaned every 250hrs. I just cleaned it again and started the colorwheel cleaning but the color wheel was pretty much spotless..it looked clean and the wet q-tip showed nothing. ..BUT, the lens on the bulb housing made the wet q-tip turn black. Did not look dirty from just a casual look but I got 2 very black wet q-tips before drying and re-buffing. I have not turned it on again yet...waiting to make sure any moisture has dissapated.

I cleaned my filter screens for the second time yesterday after I hit 400 hours on the projector. There was almost no dust whatsoever (a plus for ceiling mounting) and the color wheel was completely spotless.

I've really noticed no dimming to speak of after 400 hours anyway, but I was just curious about the color wheel after reading about it here. I'll continue to clean the lamp housing screens every 200 hours and to check the color wheel each time, even though so far I'm getting virtually no dust in there whatsoever.

This is happening in my NEC HT1000 as well. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3553956#post3553956

It also happened with my NEC LT150Z, but not to this severity.

That picture of Guy's HT1000 colorwheel looked pretty similar to my X1 colorwheel. Different colors, but the effect was the same. I would also point out that the QTip didn't get dirty looking. BUT the dust inside *my* X1 is totally white. So that doesn't surprise me. The damp QTip left a swath of clarity as I wiped it across the colorwheel. Shine a light in there, and look at the reflection (or LACK of a reflection) on the wheel. If it looks hazy try cleaning it.

JayW

Hey, a little cleaning of the lamp housing lens worked pretty good! My colorwheel was clean but lots of dirt on lamp houseing glass. A bit more "Pop" is in my picture now. I am a little nervous about sticking damp q-tips in there, but if your careful I guess no harm will come of it. One of the reasons I bought this machine is it's durability and a long-life, ultra reliable lamp. Now if I can just resist the upgrade bug for awhile longer..........

By the way I'm not sure that QTips are the best way to do the cleaning. I used them, but was nervous about leaving little bits of cotton fluff behind. Don't think I did, but the concern was there. If anyone has a better idea of what cloth or swab to use that would be cool for the next cleaning in about 250 hours. An official recommendation from Infocus would be most welcome. Is Bob from Infocus still reading this forum? Hello?

JayW

Originally posted by Nelman
BUT, the lens on the bulb housing made the wet q-tip turn black. Did not look dirty from just a casual look but I got 2 very black wet q-tips before drying and re-buffing.
follow-up postHey, a little cleaning of the lamp housing lens worked pretty good!
This is exactly what I noticed the first time I cleaned my filter. There was even a noticeable fingerprint on mine (not my fingerprint; it was kind of "burnt on" - came off easily).
This is an item that is easily overlooked. It is a small, thick glass lens.

BTW: That is a very funny tagline Nelman. :D

There are foam-tipped swabs available at places like Staples which are used to clean tape drive heads. Those won't leave lint.

AkronGuy, I thought to use the foam tipped swabs before but it seems a bit abbrasive. I was afraid to scratch the colorwheel so I went with soft. Also the colorwheel glass and hub seems to be a delicate piece, as the tape head is more robust/sturdy and can stand the pressure of a tape running over it (ok I know some tapes fly over the head and not physically have contact, but you know what I mean). I'm a big car paint buff kind of guy so I avoid anything abbrasive. Something way off here - I used a electric buffer with rubbing compound on an older car. What a mistake..

If you dont wear the soft cotton q-tip down to it's core (the stick) you shouldnt have any fibers coming off of it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3553943#post3553943
Posting Guy Kuo's hazy colorwheel as a reference to this thread. No bulb crazing here..

Heres the answer to sealed optics and how it relates to colorwheel haze (in short none. Still need to clean it).

Reply from tk in the > $3500 forum..

Sealed optics in HT1000 is a bit misleading marketing speak.
Sealed optics does include only chamber where DMD, lenses and mirrors are located. Color wheel and light tunnel are exposed. Color wheel back side might also collect contaminants so it may need cleaning too.

You don't really need to worry about this being an abrasive job. If you dampen (not soak) the end of the cotton swab, place it down onto the wheel and let its soak the dust loose, it liquifies the buildup.

You need to understand that we call it a dust buildup, but that may be misleading. The buildup is so fine in texture that I would describe it as being similar to smoke. It doesn't have enough granular consistency to do any damage as long as you use moisture. I suppose that if you scrubbed it when it was dry, you could cause some minor scratching, but the scratches would be so small that they would have less effect than the haze that you are removing.

I understand everyones apprehension, but this would all be covered in warranty under normal use and maintenance. If you don't want to do this yourself, send it to Infocus for them to service. They have great turnaround on a simple procedure like this. You could even do it over vacation.

I am glad to see others with similar findings with other brands of pjs stepping up to discuss this. I don't want a black mark on the X1's reputation as a solid, dependable performer that broke all the barriers of price and performance. I still enjoy my X1 that will be a year old in 2 days in my basement.

Dennis

Bump for pinkeye

It was interesting seeing your X1 color wheel so clear. I have a Sharp PG-M20X that I just checked the filter for the first time after 700+ hours. There wasn't a speck of dust. My unit is cealing mounted which must help. I looked at the color wheel while I had the lamp out. My wheel differs from yours a bit. The clear section is clear but all of the color sections have a mirror glaze to them. I believe this is to reflect heat away from the color filters which could change the colors over time. It apears to be the same coating they use on film projector lamps. The German's called it COLD LIGHT MIRROR. Has anyone else looked at their color wheels on other brands?

Last night I was watching my X1 and marvelled at how much better it looks since I cleaned the colorwheel. All colors are brighter and fleshtones look MUCH more realistic. I think mine picked up a lot of dust early, because I don't remember it looking this good. Thanks again Dennis and Speedy for giving this subject the attention it deserved.


JayW

I've also noticed that I can get more punch from colors by adjusting contrast up higher without white crush. I'm using only VESA connection on the X1 from my sources (RP-82, Norcent DP-501M @1080i, Comcast HD @ 1080i), and am able to crank up contrast to 65 with brightness at 53 on an equiv white matte screen (<1.0 gain). Started from Video mode on cold temp ('cold' is warmer than 'warm' on the 4800's v1.4 fw).

Following CMRA's advice on eyeballing the color adjustment than using any calibration software (I admit THX Optimizer sucks, can't say much for DVE), I found that I can get a more vivid picture, possibly even into the LT240K territory comparing to some screenshots here. Some flashes on whites now hurt my eyes too. Its that more intense.

To try to find the cause on the X1, I pull the bulb out again last night to look for some data and signs of this (gassing plastics). On the X1, the air is drawn from back to front so it is over the internal electronics. This may contribute some however I saw that on the bulb chassis just under the glass window, the plastic is scorched on the outside.. The glass is loosely fitted and can allow heat to escape from the grooves. This is the closest source of dirt I found that can feed the colorwheel.

And to correct my earlier post, I also saw some deterioration of the reflector in my bulb. I had to look really closely inside the bulb.

Of the people who have had dirty wheels, how many of them smoke indoors? I'm not trying to be accusatory, just curious.

I dont smoke.

Originally posted by DirkGecko
Of the people who have had dirty wheels, how many of them smoke indoors? I'm not trying to be accusatory, just curious.
A good question. Now for the surprising answer...........

Nope. Nobody in my house smokes and we don't even allow smoking in the house. Now that you mention it, the dreary hazy look of the colorwheel sort of looked like smoke. So smoke is not the root cause here. I suspected mine could be drywall dust from some construction in my basement. I'll be checking for more dust/haze in 100 hours or so and see if it's coming back.

JayW

P.S. Yes, I sealed up the X1 during drywall work, but it could be from hanging in the air.

I didnt do any drywall work either. I painted though with a roller with the X1 around.

After I posted that, I got to thinking more about the outgassing from plastics. Happens to the inside of car windshields, so why not a projector element?

So I'm curious. Has anyone tried cleaning their wheel and NOT seen an improvement? Keep in mind that I don't think you can depend upon the QTip turning black. Mine didn't. But the difference in appearance on the colorwheel itself was immediate and dramatic. It looked so different I was afraid I had taken the color off of the wheel. Then I realized that I could actually SEE the color for the first time. :)

So, is cleaning the colorwheel helping anyone else or anyone do it and now see a difference?

JayW

Definitely improved light output on my NEC HT1000. jmschnur reported that cleaning his color wheel on his HT1000 increased measured light output 45%. Quite a bit of difference if the built up film is severe enough. This isn't only on the X1 and HT1000. I'll bet there are quite a few machines out there that are in warranty and need their color wheels cleaned. If everybody began demanding warranty service to clean the color wheels every year or so, the manufacturers could face a huge jump in warranty service costs.

Use compressed air: A touchless solution

I never use anything wet or I never touch the color wheel. I use a can of compressed air to blow off the dust particles and it works very well. I do it at about every 150 hours so there is no buildup. Just make sure point the air directly at the color wheel and over the top. The air will bounce off of the back of the partition and clean the other side of the color wheel.

This isn't dust that we're seeing. That is a misnomer in this thread. The problem is a very adherent film deposit which air won't blow off.

We're conducting a poll in the >3500 forum to look at when this begins to occur. Another poll regarding the bulb reflector condition is also under way. All projector owners are invited to participate in the polls as these issues pertain to both <$3500 and > $3500 digital units.




Color wheel contamination poll
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=384169

and

Bulb reflector deterioration poll
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=384174

Youre right jayw, the qtip may not be black. The film or filth seems to be very similar to the film or filth you get in your car's window on the inside. Guy, your right, its not really dust.

Another satisfied customer!!! output is brighter, colors are more vivid...this is going to be a part of my cleaning regimen from now on.

Oh, no black accumulation on the q-tip here, either.

Originally posted by jayw
By the way I'm not sure that QTips are the best way to do the cleaning. I used them, but was nervous about leaving little bits of cotton fluff behind. Don't think I did, but the concern was there. If anyone has a better idea of what cloth or swab to use that would be cool for the next cleaning in about 250 hours. An official recommendation from Infocus would be most welcome. Is Bob from Infocus still reading this forum? Hello?
I cannot give you any official recommendation as the color wheel is not considered by InFocus to be a user serviceable part. If I were not an employee of InFocus I might recommend attempting to clean a color wheel using similar techniques that one would employ for a VCR head, using lint free swabs, very light pressure, and a solvent that completely evaporates. However, we are in the same boat as VCR manufacturers in that there are legitimate safety concerns and we cannot be held liable for damage to the product. The hard line stance from us is that if you do this you are violating your warranty. If you really want this done right, please use an authorized service center.

At the design stage of a product like the X1, we do a lot of work to try to prevent significant build up of material on the color wheel, since the wheel tends to be a collector of foreign material due to the fact that it is the coolest thing near the lamp and any hot vapors will condense on it. In addition the lamp itself will tend to burn off some of the contaminants. We use some extravagant materials near the lamp that can handle high temperatures and UV, but over time you will see reduction in brightness due to the effect of these contaminants. Our lamp life testing for system brightness over time includes this effect (as is required by ANSI) so you still should get the full lifetime out of the lamp.

I'm really not understanding this.

I can understand that if I broke the colorwheel it is not covered under warranty. I am not opening up the unit any further than taking the bulb out. Again I can understand that if the colorwheel broke I have to buy a new one but void the entire warranty of 5 years?? Does Infocus do the cleaning for free with shipping in other words??

I urge the change of the attitude from Infocus on this issue to not covered under warranty instead of voiding the entire 5 year warranty just on merely cleaning the colorwheel.

So how does that same attitude apply to the lamp/bulb crazing? I need a replacement now.

We seem to be making some progress with NEC, but that is still to play out. Their HT1000 is also facing this same problem. I can see the fine balancing act that has to be played out. A manufacturer can't officially advocate user cleaning of the color wheel for fear of incurring user wrath if the user breaks the color wheel "at InFocus recommendation." An easy out is to simply void the warranty on every unit that is user cleaned. That has the advantage of taking a unit out of the population of projectors they face service costs upon. On the other hand, that makes it vitally important to suppress wide public knowledge of the issue so they don't see a large increase in (justifiable) warranty service costs. The build up is not reversed by replacing the bulb, so it cannot be merely written off as an accounted for light loss of the bulb aging. The next new bulb won't be as effective when blocked by the existing film buildup.

I don't know of a comfortable solution for both users and the manufacturer. Some designs appear to be more prone to this issue than others. Users should check their X1 color wheels every few hundred hours of use and obtain professional cleaning or replacement while they are still under warranty if they wish to maintain their machines in good operating order. The forum members are privy to this information, but the vast majority of X1 and SP 4800 owners won't know to do this important periodic inspection. A quiet press is good for InFocus, but not the users.

The warranty is not void if you service the projector yourself. However, any damages resulting from unauthorized service are not covered by the warranty. Until InFocus approves a method for the end-user to clean the color wheel, we cannot suggest that you do it. I completely sympathize with you guys here.

We had a similar issue in the past with lamp screens in a previous product getting clogged and potentially leading to failure, and have since created a user-method for cleaning them.

Originally posted by Guy Kuo
...The forum members are privy to this information, but the vast majority of X1 and SP 4800 owners won't know to do this important periodic inspection. A quiet press is good for InFocus, but not the users.
I don't think it's good for anyone if end-users cannot get the best performance out of a product they buy. Our brand is our life, and I volunteered to be here to make our reputation (and our products) better. If I thought that silence were better for InFocus, I would not be here, and our presence would be just like most other companies'.

Thank you, Bob. I think that is very reassuring for the users and a reasonable approach.

Bob, thanks for the clarification. I hope Infocus will endorse a user serviceable procedure for cleaning the colorwheel.

The thread is really meant to prolong the enjoyment of the projector. As for me, if not a fellow member's suggestion to clean the wheel, I would have been thinking NEC. By cleaning the wheel I got brighter, punchier colors. It makes me feel good that this product is worth every penny I purchased it for ($1400). I dont really care that its $750 now. I'm one of those customers that will keep buying from a manufacturer with proven reliability and longevity with constant support and updates for their products.

Now about NEC...Guy, your thread is scaring me..bulb crazing, flipflop metal pieces in the bulb chassis at 200 hrs..

Thanks for posting, Bob. One of the reasons I was convinced the X1 was a sound product was one of your postings last year in response to an X1 owner's concerns.

Originally posted by Bob Williams
I cannot give you any official recommendation as the color wheel is not considered by InFocus to be a user serviceable part. If I were not an employee of InFocus I might recommend attempting to clean a color wheel using similar techniques that one would employ for a VCR head, using lint free swabs, very light pressure, and a solvent that completely evaporates.

Thanks Bob for the answer. I'm honored that it was my post you responded to. So my question (to the non-Infocus employees :D ) is what solvent would you recommend to use to clean the colorwheel? I used plain water and while the colors/brightness are VERY MUCH improved I don't believe it was as streak free as I would have wished. So I'll go back in with lint-free swaps and solvent next time. But what solvent? How about eyeglass cleaning solution?

JayW

P.S. Thanks again Bob. Hopefully Infocus will endorse a method for end-user colorwheel cleaning soon. You could sell "Infocus Swaps and Solvent" for $11.95 and it would be well worth it to your X1/4800 owners. :p

Try Guy Kuo's formula, a drop of dish washing liquid, 99% alcohol, water (thats not the right mix parts btw). I'm not sure about Windex since it hazes. Thanks to you for your contribution and feedback on the thread Jay.

Nice colors now..

http://gallery.avsforum.com/showphoto.php?photo=7062&password=&sort=1&cat=500
Recently flashed back to the 4.1 fw for the X1 but still preferred the 4800's 1.4 above.

FWIW - I am getting close to buying a PJ (4805 or 5700) and these posts are helpful.

Does a properly built hushbox with a fine fabric (speaker grille fabric) over the air ports prevent dust buildup?

As an astronomy buff, Meade instruments has a DIY cleaning solution similar to SpeedyHTPC to clean optics on their telescopes (very spendy scopes!) :) That should work.

-Bob

Originally posted by bob53

Does a properly built hushbox with a fine fabric (speaker grille fabric) over the air ports prevent dust buildup?
-Bob

Although a hush box would indeed cut down on some dust, it seems to me the buildup is like the film on the interior windows of your car. Dust or no dust the heating of the bulb chassis plastics seems to be the culprit. So the hush box may not prevent this at all.

I think on your choice of 4805 or 5700, go for the 4805 and save some money. I'm not really sure what the purpose of the 5700 is unless you are a PAL user once the 4805 is obtainable. BTW 575p is aka 480p.

So is there a consensus on what material and what solvent to use to clean both the colorwheel, and the lamp housing lens? I would like to perform this procedure this weekend, and would like to follow Bob's advice, but he was very vague in his response. He mentioned "lint free swabs", do q-tips fit this description? He also mentioned a solvent that completely evaporates, I understand that water will do the trick, but what about something a little stronger? I saw wm's formula...:
<QUOTE>
WM's formula:

1 drop dishwashing detergent (not soap!)
(or Kodak Photoflo if you have it)
1/3 cup 99% Isopropyl alcohol
1 2/3 cup distilled water

BTW: Do NOT use this solution on your digital projector lens. It's fine for CRT's but NOT digital projection lenses.
</QUOTE>
But this note on the end scares me a little. What is meant by digital pj lens? Is it the actual lens, or the lamp housing lens?

Thanks,
Sam

Use one of those electronic swabs that are lint free.
I'd say you can start with purified water. If that doesnt get it off, then try the formula.

I've never seen those lint free swabs, do you have a link or a brand name for an example?

Here is an example..but as you can see for the price you dont want to buy it online. I'm sure its there at your local rat shack, best buy or some place like that. I got mine from Frys but I used regular qtips on my colorwheel. I think the posts here concerning the use of qtip is a bit overblown.

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/1693951

I just finished my first cleaning at 225 hrs. Using a Q-tip I cleaned the lamp cavity which showed some dust. I could also see some dust build up on the fan blades themselves but I left that alone.I also vacuumed the dust away from the screens. The screen facing the fan was clogged but the other screen looked like new. I then cleaned my colour wheel which had some specks on it but was not hazy. I found that just using distilled water left streaking which had me a bit anxious so I tried the above solution which left less streaking. I then buffed the wheel with a dry Q-tip as recommended. I think I will try the foam swabs next time as I had to pick out some fibers that got stuck on the joint between the clear segment and the adjoining segment. It took a little more time and pressure than I expected but it came up looking like new. I can imagine someone with over a thousand hours doing this for the first time would be amazed at the results. As I stated I only have 225 hrs. but I could see the start of some build up. I will be cleaning my unit thoroughly thanks to Speedy!

I noticed a dust blob last night at 897 hours so I figured I would do the color wheel while trying to get the dust blob out. I used compressed air and a vacuum to try and get the dust out. I used 91% alcohol and q-tips to clean the wheel. I got it pretty clean, it was pretty hazzy. Put it all back together only to find out I had many dust blobs insted of one. I ended up pulling the front off and taking the lens out. I got all the dust blobs and and everything looks great again.

I must agree that Bob William's comments are a bit vague. I used some eyeglass cleaner that came with my prescription glasses. The colorwheel was left a bit streaked albeit MUCH cleaner than it was. Tonight I was watching a movie and noticed that during dark scenes those spots and streaks are noticible. Now I know that I need to get the colorwheel spotless and shiny again. What solvent will do the trick?

JayW

Edited to add this scary thought: What if the streaks/spots are on the OTHER side of the colorwheel???

As an optics guy (serious optics, thousands of dollars to millions of dollars..) I really must balk at the use of a q-tip to clean anything. You are likely to scratch the surface of whatever you’re cleaning with it not because of what is already on the part you’re cleaning, but because of impurities imbedded in the q-tip. They are made for cleaning your ears, not optics, and there is a reason there 5$ for 500.

Optics places such as Edmunds sell what are equivalent to optical grade qtips (although even those aren’t the best, but probably are the best for this as far as reach and what not.)

The smoky film is most likely to be outgassed hydrocarbon deposits. Anyone who has had a new car knows how quickly the inside of the windows get this nasty fog on them. Well that fog is caused by the outgassing of all the plastic in the car. (which also causes that new car smell btw) Having hot plastic parts only accelerates this process.

Don't clean any optics with isopropyl alcohol or water. Water will cause streaks, because it does not evaporate quickly enough, so any impurities in solution have time to settle and when it does dry, will be a big line of clumps (a streak) Don't use alcohol because even before you have ever opened the lid, and even more so once its been used, it has water in it. Sure the alcohol dries quickly, but then you still have that same water issue. Hence, streaks. I wouldn't clean anything that I cared about with dishwashing detergent either. Your not going to get it all off and when it dries it will leave a film.

What do I use? 100% methanol. Is it harder to get, you bet. It’s also toxic, so don't mix it up with your everclear and drink it. Speaking of everclear, if you do any woodworking and finish with Shellac, you'll get a much better finish using everclear than you will using the big can of denatured alcohol the hardware store sells, but that’s a different forum.

I have no idea what coating the color wheel is made of, but almost every common optical coating I know of is not going to be removed by anything listed in this thread so far.

Myself I have 1 hour on my new Benq 6200 so hopefully I have some time before I need this; however I may crack it open to see if the shipment from Taiwan or wherever it was made in a plastic bag has caused outgassing onto the color wheel. Could be there from the start.

BTW. Satellites that utilize optics spend 100's of thousands of dollars on outgassing analysis to determine what parts will outgass, what the concentration of the gas will be around the spacecraft at all sensitive parts, and how the deposition of these gases onto the optics will degrade performance over time. Luckily my job with the optics is much more fun than that, but I do know the poor guys who do that stuff. In the outgassing world, most plastics = the devil. All you need to know about that if anyone ever asks about outgassing. That and the obligatory flatulence joke.


Please pardon any spelling or gramatical errors. It's late, I am tired, and really don't care about that at this point.

Are these q-tips made of foam? I seem to be able to find those. They "seem" like they would be scratchy? Are foam swabs safe for the colorwheel? Where can you buy 100% methanol? Does it have to be mailordered or might a local home depot or hobby shop sell it? Has anyone checked out "Opti-Max" cleaner. They get a lot of hits on google. They make grand claims of being good for this type of application. Thanks for your reply "Got Incon".

JayW

Originally posted by jayw
I must agree that Bob William's comments are a bit vague. I used some eyeglass cleaner that came with my prescription glasses. The colorwheel was left a bit streaked albeit MUCH cleaner than it was. Tonight I was watching a movie and noticed that during dark scenes those spots and streaks are noticible. Now I know that I need to get the colorwheel spotless and shiny again. What solvent will do the trick?

JayW

Edited to add this scary thought: What if the streaks/spots are on the OTHER side of the colorwheel???

Anyone have any ideas on this? If the streaks are on parts of the colorwheel wouldn't they show up as colored blobs instead of white blobs which is what I'm seeing? Anyone have an answer to this? I see (on dark scenes) three or four lighter patches on the screen. Almost looks like the screen is shinier there. But it is NOT the screen. I verified this already by holding up a sheet of paper and the blobs stayed the same.

HELP!

Thanks in advance,

JayW

I doubt it has anything to do with the color wheel. Anything on the color wheel is going to whip across the screen as the wheel spins.. it won't sit still.

More likely you have picked up some dust blobs on the cover of the DMD chip, perhaps loosened from tilting and jostling the projector around while you were cleaning the wheel?

I think you're right. How do you clear those off? I thought that it was sealed?

JayW

Hey folks. After noticing this thread the other day, I decided to take a look at my colorwheel while I was doing my periodic lamp screen vacuuming. I had never really taken a close look at the wheel before, so I don't have a good sense of what it looked like when there were less hours on the projector. I currently have 1250 hours.

Anyway, the wheel looked pretty cloudy, as well as having some little particles (likely dust) on it. As I didn't have any materials (i.e., quality swabs) handy, I didn't attempt a cleaning. I do wonder how much good it would do though, considering the valid suggestion above that the colorwheel may be just as dirty on the other side of the wheel. Perhaps in another 250 hours I'll consider sending it in for authorized service.

Here are some pictures I snapped showing the various segments. (One of my pictures didn't come out very well, which is why only 3 of the 4 segments are included in the photo.)

--> click for pic <-- (http://home.austin.rr.com/hwj/ht/colorwheel.jpg)

hwj,

Your wheel is cloudy enough that you can't see the inner workings under the color wheel. Compare your photos to the photo at the start of this thread and look around the brass hub to see how your has clouded. I assure you that the film is on the side that you are looking at.

Since you seem to have a good digital camera and your wheel is filmed over, is there any way that you could get some good screen shots to let others know how much of a difference the cleaning makes? This is something that we have been missing, since it takes 1000 hours to get the type of buildup that you have.

Even a shot of a colored section of the wheel during cleaning, would help to visually tell others what to look for.

Thanks for any help that you can offer,

Dennis

If I decide to clean the colorwheel myself, you can be sure I will document the process with photos.

Another thing I noticed is that the picture at the beginning of this thread (from Technut's X1 FAQ) shows a RGBW colorwheel. In inspecting mine yesterday it seemed like it was very much a CYMW colorwheel. Is there something I'm missing here?

Yes your colorwheel is contaminated and youre starting to miss the potential output of your pj. The first post also says that when I first looked at my colorwheel, it looked just like yours with the true colors hidden underneath.

Also if you notice that the DMD window "arm" is reflecting the right colors from the other side of the wheel. That means the wheel is clean on the other side. But as you look at the photos you see CMYW which means contamination. It will look like technut's photo after you have it cleaned.

Here's my way.....

I down a shot ( 1.5 oz. ) of Stoli ( red label ) and then breath on the swab....
This not only cleans the color wheel and lens, but also reduces screen door effect.

WARNING.... do not exceed 6 oz. or a double image may appear.

Thanks for this procedure! 2K hours on my X1 and the wheel was dirty! I was stymied by the improvement after cleaning...

EJ,
That's excellent news! This is a really exciting development for us X1 users.
JayW

Okay folks. As requested, some pictures before/during/after my colorwheel cleaning.

The blue segment in the process of being cleaned:
http://home.austin.rr.com/hwj/ht/colorwheel-blue.jpg

Before and after pictures of the red segment:
http://home.austin.rr.com/hwj/ht/colorwheel-red.jpg

Possible source of the haze? Note the scorched plastic on the bulb housing:
http://home.austin.rr.com/hwj/ht/bulb.jpg

Unfortunately, I have to say that after polishing up the wheel and hooking everything back up and demoing some material (both DVD and HDTV), I didn't I see any noticable difference in brightness or color fidelity whatsoever.

My personal conclusion is that while my wheel had a decent layer of haze on it, it wasn't yet enough to affect performance all that much.

You may be right. You have more hours than I do so maybe you have a cleaner environment. My wheel was caked on enough that I dont recall seeing the DMD arm behind it except the white segment. In Guy Kuo's thread, someone has measured the actual light output difference and saw that after cleaning, it was brighter. To my eye it is brighter. I still think you are better off now than before.

HWJ,

Wow those pics were terrific. My colorwheel was a bit hazier than that I suspect. Your picture of the lamp housing gives me an idea WHY mine might have been worse. I replaced my original bulb at 590 hours. I did this so I would have a spare bulb (the original). I put the new bulb in so I would be able to take advantage of the warranty in case of early failure. I now have about 300 hours on the second bulb. So my colorwheel had to endure the outgassing of TWO lamp housings. Mine looks very much like your picture shows: significant scorching. Interesting. Just a theory.

In any case I did see a real improvement in brightness. So much so that now I notice the dust blobs which I am officially ignoring for now. (see my blob thread for details. ) :)

Thanks again for the great photos.

JayW

I'm certainly happier knowing my colorwheel is crystal clear compared to what it looked like before the cleaning. And after a few more hours of use I guess I would have to say that I'm seeing a marginal improvement in brightness. But I have a feeling it's the "butt dyno" effect (as we say in automotive circles) so I don't know if I'm really seeing something or it's just a placebo effect.

My environment can be a little dusty but is otherwise very clean. The vaporized polymers from the scorched lamp housing seems much more likely than any other source of contamination I can think of. Perhaps there's some variation in the quality of the plastic used for the housing from unit to unit? Or perhaps some X1s run hotter than others? This is the only reason I can think that some people would experience colorwheel haze and/or scorched housings and some wouldn't.

Bob Williams, if you're still monitoring this thread and can comment on the scorching of the lamp housing plastics, please do.

Originally posted by jayw
Are these q-tips made of foam? I seem to be able to find those. They "seem" like they would be scratchy? Are foam swabs safe for the colorwheel? Where can you buy 100% methanol? Does it have to be mailordered or might a local home depot or hobby shop sell it? Has anyone checked out "Opti-Max" cleaner. They get a lot of hits on google. They make grand claims of being good for this type of application. Thanks for your reply "Got Incon".

JayW

No, they are not foam. They look just like mini cotton balls on the end, but however they are glued on is done in such a way to prevent the fibers from coming off on what your working on. (unlike a q-tip) I honestly don't know where the easiest place is to get methanol anymore. We get our supply at work from Fischer Scientific (I think thats how it is spelled) they supply chemicals for schools and business. I don't know if they will ship direct to a home though. I personally have never used the cleaner you mention.

Keep in mind in all of this, that even if you do leave minor streaks, they are not likely to be anywhere near as bad as the original film. Here is what I would do, I would get the real optics cleaning version of the qtips from a place like edmunds, get a brand new bottle of as close to 100% Isopropyl alcohol you can find, clean it with the new bottle and use lots of the swabs. Once it starts streaking, get another. In other words, use several to clean the wheel. Then use a light and inspect the wheel, do your best to correct any streaks and make sure you get any fiber off the wheel.


BTW, on a related note. That canned air stuff that you use to blow dust out of keyboards....well that stuff will leave a film on optics as well. Don't use it to clean the wheel. I use filtered compressed air or CO2 instead.

Bryon

Some electronics suppliers also sell proper cotton tips as well . Theyre a lot longer and use proper cotton thats glued on. Normal qtips are known to scratch magnetic heads etc.

After reading this thread (and Guy's accompanying HT1000 thread), I thought I had better check my X1.

My X1 is on 1226 hours (17 months old). I have removed and cleaned the bulb housing only once before, and had noted that the wire grill was very clogged up with dust at that time. I have never cleaned the color wheel before!

What I found was that my color wheel appears to be fine. I do however have "crazing" (as Guy calls it) on the buld reflector, and also the same scorching on the bulb housing as noted in hwj's post above.

Below are my pictures (with no cleaning done)...

Color wheel (clear with no hazy "film" like others are suffering from):
http://www.gregzone.com/images/X1ColorWheel1200hours.jpg

Bulb reflector "crazing":
http://www.gregzone.com/images/X1crazing1200hours.jpg

Scorched? bulb housing:
http://www.gregzone.com/images/X1burn1200hours.jpg

My 1226 hour situation suggests this color wheel "film" problem is not existing for everyone's DLP projector.

I wonder if this problem is location? / altitude? / environment? dependant?

For the record, my X1 is ceiling mounted in a smoke free (but relatively dusty) environment, and I live in Auckland, New Zealand, which is relatively smog free and at sea level. :)

Greg

Captdoug,
Re pulling the front off and cleaning the lens, how did you manage to get the focus ring off? I managed to get the zoom ring off but fingers aren't small enough to grip and pull the focus ring off. Did you use come kind of tool?
Richard

Great post. I'm at 1236 hours and noticed that there was a faint dimming on the output of light. I thought I would need a new lamp to restore full lumens. Used a Qtip and rubbing alcohol on the color wheel. I understand people's concern about scratching the color wheel with a Qtip, but restoring the light output on a projector with the pricetag of an X1 is well worth it. No visible haze, but Qtip contained some dark stuff. I always clean the glass lens on the lamp assembly during standard maintenance to get rid of the contaminants, so any visible difference would be attributed to the cleaning the color wheel. Projector is noticeably brighter.

Great news darklcd. And sort of an ironic name too. :)

JayW

Alright, My picture is bright with the new lamp AND clean color wheel BUT now I have those UGLY dust bunnies! How do I get rid of them?

Hey guys. Got Incon? above said that 100% pure methanol would work very well.

A cleaning solution that digital SLR users use to clean their camera sensors can be found here:

http://www.2filter.com/prices/products/eclipse.html

A more thorough description is here:

http://www.photosol.com/eclipseproduct.htm

My bottle of Eclipse Optic Cleaning Solution says it contains methanol. I think it is pure, although it did say that if it streaks, it should be wiped off.

I performed the cleaning today at 280 hours and there was quite a bit of film to be removed. I took the projector apart to remove the wheel shield which made it a lot easier to clean thoroughly.

After experimenting with many fluids to clean lenses I settled on the Kodak lens cleaning solution, picked up a microfiber cloth at an eyeglass retailer and the combo works really well. After some experimenting it's the only combo I could find that doesn't leave residue or streaks on lenses and it worked great for the color wheel.

I also removed the top of the optical engine and noted dust on the mirror and lenses which I cleaned up, buttoned everything up and noticed something very small rattling inside the unit, a couple shakes and a 1/4 inch square piece of glass fell out, great! After some searching I realized it's the front lens of the photodiode which is attached to the optical engine cover just behind the colorwheel. I remove this to take the cover of the optical engine completely off. So if you do this be carefull if removing this part.

I also noticed the color wheel has a flaw in it, looks like a small bubble or blemish in the glass. Here's a pick.

I recommend a lens cleaning solution. I used my wife's perl vision eye glass cleaner. with regular cotton swabs. My color wheel was very dirty and this worked. You have go over the color wheel at least 7 times with new swabs each turn. Use a can of compressed air immeadiately after to blow off and evaporate the solution. Result, no impurities left behind. It looks like noting ever touched it. Clear as ever. The key is the compressed air right after you clean. no need to polish water stains off becase there is none.

One question. How on earth to you clean the other side of the color wheel? now that i've cleaned one side I can see dust on the other side. Is There an easy way the color wheel without taking apart the eintire projector ? This is crazy. Infocus should make future projectors to that the color wheel can easilit be removed for cleaning or replacement like the bulb housing.

I'm at 1561 on my second bulb, and have cleaned my color wheel, and most everything else inside several times now. I abused this thing a lot during my first bulb and blew my bulb. Believe me this made it harder to clean. Don't be lazy!
Everything gets dusty in this thing. There is a lot you need to use mild cleaners on like water, and some where a stronger cleaner will work well. I use "air" cleaning as much as possible, but have had no problems with careful q-tip use. I recalibrate with the usual DVD stuff after cleaning if I clean things like the color wheel.

Originally posted by tsteves
I'm at 1561 on my second bulb, and have cleaned my color wheel, and most everything else inside several times now. I abused this thing a lot during my first bulb and blew my bulb. Believe me this made it harder to clean. Don't be lazy!
Everything gets dusty in this thing. There is a lot you need to use mild cleaners on like water, and some where a stronger cleaner will work well. I use "air" cleaning as much as possible, but have had no problems with careful q-tip use. I recalibrate with the usual DVD stuff after cleaning if I clean things like the color wheel.

Was that picture of you on the left taken from behind the clear segment of you color wheel before you cleaned it? It looks blury as hell.. :)

Yes my X1 has the haze color wheel after about 2k hours. I am on my second bulb, yeah so much for that 3k hour bulb.

Sorry I am not as brave as the rest of you and I would tend to agree about the brute force nature of cleaning any optics in this method. Anything alcohol based is better than water because there is not residue left after the alcohol evaporates.

Anyone have any experience of just getting the color wheel cleaned by Infocus? Is there a fee for doing this?

I also have some dust blobs somehere in the optics that I have been unable to blow out or suck out.

It's been great watching the Olympics in HD even if everything is taped delayed. My head may explode if I have to watch that Sony commericial one more time though.

While at work, if my glasses were dirty, I would spray White board, dry erase cleaner on them and it works awesome. I wonder how that would work??

It contains "2-butoxy ethanol/acetate, isopropyl alcohol"

inittab
"Was that picture of you on the left taken from behind the clear segment of you color wheel before you cleaned it? It looks blury as hell.. "

It was taken by a nephew with a yard sale polaroid with very old film. It looks nothing like me at all. It makes me look much more attractive than usual photos.

For those looking for good swabs, one possibility is Texwipe who sell a number of products. I believe they can be purchased through Specialty Optical Systems in their cleanroom products section. They're a bit expensive ($0.2 and up per swab) but they're very good. No, I do not work for either of these companies.
As for a solvent, a high purity methanol or denatured ethanol should be the best.

*bump*

So I decided not to adventure into this DIY experience. I just think messing with the optics is more delicate than I would care to venture.

I called Infocus to ask about getting some preventive maintenance done. They replied they have no offering as such, only the user has to clean the lamp filters.

I told them I had a loss in brightness and color and I had dust blobs somewhere in the optics. They said they can fix it under warranty so I am taking that route and will report back on what happens. I hope they just replace the color wheel and not even try to clean the color wheel.

They'll probably just vacuum out the dust blobs. I can't imagine they would replace the color wheel!

Well 3 weeks (UGH) later and it's back. Well they did not do anything! The color wheel is still hazy and now my dust blobs have multiplied with all the movement and shipping. They even managed to keep my lens cap.

The firmware was not even upgraded!

I am selling our house with this projector and will pass this problem along. I think I am the only one that notices these problems anyway.

Sell the house to someone who really likes "twiddling" with electronics, etc, and they will have decent working video in no time. Not really a big home buyer market segment, I guess. Oh well.

I'm at about 2500 hours now, perhaps 100 hours into my second bulb. I noticed the color wheel seemed to be dull looking when I changed the bulb, and wondered about cleaning it. I stumbled across this thread yesterday, and used a moist (not wet) qtip, cleaned off the color wheel, and WOW... what a difference... I thought when I replaced the bulb that it seemed much much brighter and more colorful, and it was, but taking this extra step, and cleaning the color wheel has improved the quality yet again! Thanks for the suggestion, and for all the help available here for us lurkers :) btw, its an X1, bought in Feb this year...

2500 hours since February!!! You really are into front projection in a big way aren't you! The X1 has made it possible for so many.

I'm glad that you found the info in this thread to be helpful. When I found the color wheel haze on my X1 last December, I posted immediately about how much difference a simple cleaning could make. Speedy saw the posting and tried it himself and thus we decided to start this thread with the how-to and describe how the X1 loses luster ever so slowy, and the startling picture vibrance that can be achieved again after some maintenance.

Glad we could help you see the X1 light again!!! It looks as if you are ready for your next 2500 hours!

Cheers,

DG

Might as well kick this dead horse a bit, since all X1 users should be aware of this anyways. :)

I got my X1 up and running last March/April - my bulb just exploded on me yesterday, giving off a report that you all probably heard echoing through the skies. Seriously though, it wasn't that loud, but it DID scare the bejeezus out of me when it happened!

Anyways, time for a new bulb. I have somewhere between 2500 and 3000 hours on this one... I average about 10 hours/day runtime. (family uses it as television). I have never cleaned the screens (ceiling mounted - I am lazy).

So I looked into the chamber after taking out the bulb housing and WHOA! was my color wheel coated with gook! Examining the old bulb housing showed massive areas where plastic was outgassing. Time for a cleaning!

Interestingly, when the color wheel gets coated, it makes the segments look the wrong color (ie green looks red, etc...) - really weird. You'll see this in the pics.

I used regular old qtips and 70% Isopropyl rubbing alcohol. I gently cleaned the wheel - at first it streaked like crazy. You have to keep cleaning it again and again to remove a massive buildup like this. So I kept at it patiently for a good hour or so. You don't want to push too hard, but you will have to apply some pressure to get the stuff off. I found it best to keep moving the Qtip in the same direction, from the outer rim in to the center (I didn't want to push out to the rim because I was afraid of pushing it over the edge and around to the back-side of the wheel). It looks like I did scratch the wheel a bit and I think there are a few little cotton fibers (very few), but overall the wheel is in MUCH better shape than before I started, at least to the eye. When the new bulb arrives I'm hoping for a much more brilliant and colorful picture.

Here are some before/after pics, a set for each segment:

Clear Segment, dirty and then clean:

http://www.karastina.com/clearseg_dirty.jpg http://www.karastina.com/clearseg_clean.jpg

Green Segment, dirty and then clean:

http://www.karastina.com/greenseg_dirty.jpg http://www.karastina.com/greenseg_clean.jpg

Red Segment, dirty and then clean:

http://www.karastina.com/redseg_dirty.jpg http://www.karastina.com/redseg_clean.jpg

Blue Segment, dirty and then clean:

http://www.karastina.com/blueseg_dirty.jpg http://www.karastina.com/blueseg_clean.jpg

As you can see, what a STUNNING difference cleaning it makes. Now it is "transparent" the way it should be, and you are able to see the electronics behind it - whereas before it appeared to be a solidly colored wheel. Of course, with the new bulb, it will probably get coated again pretty quickly (I believe the coating happens in the early life of the bulb, when the plastic of the housing is newly reacting to the heat). This time I'm going to make an effort to clean the screens every 250 hours (maybe I'll get closer to that 4000 hour mark next time) - they were TERRIBLE, in fact the whole thing was dusty - my family room has a fair amount of dust in it.

When the new bulb comes in and I fire it up, I will report the "results". Lets hope I didn't kill the thing! :eek:

-Viv

Nice pictures and documentation of a pretty common occurence. You will really like the boost in brightness and color with the clean wheel. I would think that over half of your improvement will come from the cleaning with the other from the new bulb.

Glad you get such good use out of your pj, it really confirms that they can serve a family well!

DG

Should have left the clear segment dirty. All a clean one does is wash out the picture more.

Good job of cleaning but what you probably didn't realize was that with the wheel really dirty like that, it made it easy to the opposite colors. If you were to look at the wheel and change the angle of the light, you would see the same effect. Cyan is the opposite of Red, Magenta for Green, Yellow for Blue and dirty for Clear. Reflecting the light, the colors are subtractive, passing the light, the colors are additive. Or something like that. Basic color stuff I learned from dabbling in photography so many years ago.

In any event, good job on the cleaning. Another reason for the buildup is if the projector is operated in an environment where smoking is allowed. I clean a lot of projectors that are used in sports bars. Really bad!!

my colors have gone to crap all of a sudden. With the superbowl coming up I want (ok, I don't want to do this, but I need to) try this - any comments on the thought about leaving the clear part of the wheel dirty? I remember when the x1 first came out there was talk of "blacking out" the clear segment - would this have some of the same effects?

also, any thoughts on "dirtex" cleaner? used it on many things, it evaporates cleanly and quickly and has even lifted paint in my experience.

I would only use a water-based cleaner. Perhaps the Isopropyl (70%) alcohol is fine, I don't know. But I would stay away from anything that can affect plastics.

And watch out for any sprays. Dust blobs could appear. (Dust blown onto DMD chip)

I haven't done this yet, I plan to.

Can others who've done this procedure post their caveats?

I use Denatured Alcohol, available at the home centers. Just make sure to wipe it clean. I usually follow up with a lens tissue (from camera shops) and gently do a final wipe. No, I wouldn't use the Isopropyl alcohol.

As for leaving the clear segment dirty:

I'm more of a fan of brightness anyways, BUT, I think it might be a moot point, because from what I understand about this unit, the clear segment is only used during presentation mode.... which I don't use for viewing television/movies. In the other modes (film, etc...) the clear segment is not used.

Don't ask me how that works, since it's right there on the wheel and the thing is spinning, I have no idea... but thats what I've read.

Perhaps somebody more knowledgeable could clarify this point for us?

Also - the thing will probably be filthy again 500 hours later... LOL! :)

-Viv

Absolutely right. the clear segment is "off" in all modes but "presentation" mode. It's a tricky little mechanism, the images are timed to the color segments and if you are not in presentation mode, there are no images displayed during the clear segment.

Wow then, simply stunning.

Sometimes I think we all take this "everyday" technology too much for granted - while it's merely an internal component we never see, think about the science, ingenuity, and development it took those brainiacs over at TI (didn't they develop the whole DLP thing?) to devise a device that could spin a colored wheel and flash an image through it at high speed, precisely timed to flash when certain colors are in front of the opening - and do it fast enough to mesh it into a full-color image, and then blow the thing up with magnification and enough light to give us these awesome images in our HTs. Wow!

I bow down to the unsung heroes of our world - those brilliant and creative minds who come up with these great solutions and develop this amazing technology: across the board, in all fields, especially medical.

Of course, I'm still blown away by the genious in the early 1900's who figured out how to mount a machine gun on the front of a plane and then time the shots to go THROUGH the front propeller without hitting the blades. While I'm sure the mechanisms are worlds different, thats kind of a similar concept to the DLP wheel, if you think about it. Ah well, I'm easily confused. :)

-Viv

Yep, A TI thingie.

The DLP chip is an array of hundreds of thousands of really tiny mirrors that move according to electronic commands. They angle to either reflect the light or not reflect the light, or any position in between. Thus giving that pixel any shade of grey, from black (no reflection) to white (all reflection). And if not for the color wheel, the image would be B&W. So on a simple 4 segment color wheel (Red, Green, Blue and Clear, and let's ignore Clear for now as it's not used in Film mode) each frame is "imaged" 3 times by the DLP chip, once for each color segment. Those little mirrors are moving pretty fast.

I'm old enough to remember when shiny aluminum Christmas trees were popular. My parents had one and it had a couple lights on the floor that had revolving color wheels on them that would wash the tree in changing colors. Makes me wonder if the TI folks had that in the back of their minds. I know when I learned about DLP technology and how it worked, it brought back memories of my parents tree.

IMPRESIVE..a question though

What about the other side of the wheel, was it dirty and if yes how do you reach it??? Is only one side exposed to the dirt?

Originally posted by Taiser
IMPRESIVE..a question though

What about the other side of the wheel, was it dirty and if yes how do you reach it??? Is only one side exposed to the dirt?

Oddly enough, while both sides are in the open, so to speak, most of the time it's only been the side closest to the lamp that has required cleaning.

I have had to clean both sides on occasion but that requires dismantling the assembly to remove the wheel. And then the wheel has to be re-timed after it is installed. The projectors I maintain are in harsh environments (sports bars), your mileage may vary.

BTW, go back and look at Vivitron's post and images. I'm sure he didn't take his projector apart. He was only able to clean the lamp side of the wheel and as far as I can see, it looks like new (almost).

Whatever you do if you are cleaning things around the "other side" of the color wheel, don't use alcohol on the "prism" looking thing. It is plastic.

Originally posted by tsteves
Whatever you do if you are cleaning things around the "other side" of the color wheel, don't use alcohol on the "prism" looking thing. It is plastic.

Good point. On those parts, I would recommend camera lens cleaning fluid, sparingly.

Can someone tell me what material the colorwheel is made of?
Thanks

Glass with coatings.

I just completed a cleaning of my 4805's color wheel (RGBRGB) at the 1000+ hour mark. Oh yeah! That extreme snap and pop are back :D Colors are more vibrant with greater shadow detail. The glass was quite cloudy. Was like wiping a filthy window to discover a bright day outside. I used the standard gear: qtips, water and maglight.

And no kidding about the wheel whine right after a cleaning. Sucker was noisy in an alarming way, but settled down after 5 or 10 minutes to an almost inaudible level. No negative aftereffects (dust blobs, etc., etc.)

My thanks to SpeedyHTPC for having the audacity to breach this subject.

that whine afterward is alarming the first time! i was wondering the other day if the water and q-tip idea might cause problems with the color wheels after a period of time. if it gets in the bearing at all could it cause the color wheel the rust or anything of the like. i dont really think rusting would be a problem but it could get water build up and start to whine.

Wouldn't centripetal force prevent moisture/fibers from getting into the bearings? I assumed the extra weight and disproportionate remants of the unevaporated water caused the whine. Running the wheel for a couple minutes probably "blow dried" 'em clear and even again.

No, the bearings are supposed to be sealed. That you got any noise at all initially is interesting, and I would monitor that issue because the X1 and 4805 have had a history of noisy bearings. The factory has replaced them under warranty. It does not seem to be a widespread problem, judging from the posts in this forum. I, myself, care for over 25 projectors and so far have had to have only 3 sent in for that issue.

My X1 always had a bit of a "whine" to it, from day one out of the box. No biggie, it isn't so loud that it distracts... it's honestly never been an issue.

Possibly people who have had problems are talking about a much louder whine then I'm getting...? Or perhaps they are more sensitive.

Anyways, I got the new bulb in and my X1 back up mounted and running again. It honestly looks exactly as it did the first day I got the thing. Definitely much brighter again (at 2500 hours with a filthy color wheel that thing was getting dimmer for sure).

UNFORTUNATELY: during the offdays I went and picked up a 4805 since they were so cheap and easily returnable... just to see the difference to see if it's worth it. HOLY MACKEREL!! The 4805 image is much MUCH better by virtue of 1.) somewhat sharper, 2.) MUCH more vibrant colors and "better looking coloring" as well (better gamma correction?)... 3.) unbelievably brighter, which was surprising since the X1 is rated a higher ANSI lumens... but someone told me the X1's lumens rating was in "presentation mode", which I don't use for video viewing... in pure video viewing mode the 4805 is MUCH brighter, I can attest to that from firsthand experience. I say unfortunately, because I really can't keep the thing, and I'm staying with my X1... grrrr.... but just know that the 4805 has RUINED me and one day it will be mine.... OH YES.... it WILL be mine.... :)

-Viv

Easily fixed...go in the X1 menu and change to Presentation mode. You'll have to make adjustments in the Brightness, Contrast and Color, etc.

I put in the 4800 firmware, run it in presentation and just dim it down a tad...beautiful. Makes me more than happy but...I haven't seen a 4805 in action yet :)

I just did it at around 1000 hours and it did make a difference. I too was worried I would somehow hurt the x1, but I didn't. the improvement was well worth it.

I cleaned the color wheel on my X1 after I took it down for a filter cleaning. The projector has a total of about 1350 hours on it, and it has been 1000+ since the last cleaning. The dust level was somewhat high on one of the filters and non-existant on the other.

I used a Q-tip and water to clean the color wheel, which didn't look dirty at all. Upon completion, the Q-tip had the slightest tinge of black at the very tip. I also didn't notice any of the lamp problems that people describe in previous posts, no burnt plastic or anonamlies in the lamp housing, etc.

Upon firing the projector back up, the colors do look a little bit snappier and brighter. If I had to put a measurement on it, I would say the brightness and color increased maybe 10%. I didn't see the improvement I expected given the experiences thus far in the thread.

I just did this to my X1 with about 1000 hours on it and there was a slight improvement. As I cleaned the wheel it looked less cloudy and more clear. Wasn't really anything on the q-tips, you have to watch it under a certain light when you clean it to see any difference.

I also added a Hoya 62mm ND2 filter which gave a noticable improvement to black levels without affecting the white at all. In fact I ran it through Avia again and brightness/contrast did not need to be adjusted. I have 99% light control even when the sun is beating on the window so I don't know if the ND2 would be good where ambient light is present.

Well Im at 3800 hrs or something and I just seen this thread , I been off in my own little world. Two words.....HOLY ****.

I never noticed before really never paid attention but the colors on the color wheel were'nt even the colors they're supposed to be. I mean MY GOD lol. I have'nt plugged it back in yet and fired it up. But yeah I'll just say you wait to long god knows what your wheel looks like.

Like someone pointed out, I thought I broke it for real. It was well pink which I assumed was the red section , well imagine my shock, horror really when I wiped it and it was really the green segment, The others were just as messed up, totally different than what they were supposed to be. White I remember was well milk, that at least looked semi similar. The others were totally off. Well time to go fire this thing up. lol

As has been explained before in this thread, when the color wheel is coated, you are seeing the opposite color of what that segment is. Cyan for Red, Magenta for Green, Yellow for Blue and dirty for Clear. Basic color principles. The colors appear different because of the reflected light vs transmitted light.

Well I finally hooked it up. And it seems like I have a new bulb lol. It made that much difference. now I wonder what a new bulb would do, which is coming soon, since like I said Im closing in on 4000. Really was funny though, even after reading thread , hearing others say it, even thinking what I did , that they broke something. Still does'nt really prepare you for what you see when you actually do it. Im still having a chuckle about it. Just funny to see something change so much from just basically cleaning it. Anyway thank god i seen this thread. I'd hate to think of those who change bulb , yet never clean the colorwheel. That'd be a real shame.

*Bump*

Well after 750 hours on my X1 I decided to take a look and sure enough the color wheel was covered with a hazy film. It cleaned up easy enough and now the brightness of the projector is like new. The lamp housing was scorched and smelled like burnt matches so I'm assuming that the film on the color wheel is made up of smoke particles.

My parent's X1 has had a problem for the last 700 hours or so where the yellow is really washed out, dim, or generally off. The best way to describe it is a mustard analogy. It used to be this bright yellow like the kind at a diner, but now it's more like dried mustard, or spicy deli mustard. It's almost tan, and of course movies with a lot of green (like the Matrix films) look way off, and skin tones are almost like people all have really bad spray-on tans. I tried the color wheel and filter cleaning detailed in this thread, encountered a hazy color wheel with reversed colors, tons of dust, etc, and took care of it. Well, white and black levels improved, but yellow still seems off. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what the problem could be?

Well, from the first time I tried the DVE disc (at about 200 hours) I found the greens to be too far off to calibrate and the color yellow always looked a little dirty to me. We are at 1400 hours and I think our X1 is a little dimmer but yellow seems just the same to me. It never looked like a bright yellow.

Having said that our X1's color is really very good. The blues are the best, followed by very good reds and the greens are okay. Not great but not bad.

YMMV

JBlacklow,

Could be the lamp, how many hours are on it?

Is this projector in a home where people smoke?

Almost 1500 hours, and only sometimes.

The lamp could be dimming faster than others and that might be affecting the color. As the lamp dims, contrast is lost and the colors don't look as clean. One other thing to check might be the glass window on the lamp housing. If people smoke, there might be an accumulation of residue on that glass. Try cleaning the outside with alcohol

Just a couple of thoughts.

BTW, the techs tell me that a lamp can lose as much as 50% of its brightness by the time it reaches the expected end of its life. And that is not all at once, but gradually, over time. Which is why so many people don't realize it until, one day, the lamp is replaced and SHAZAM!! All of a sudden, the image is a lot brighter than before.

How much is lost at 1500 hours? Who knows? The lamps don't all degrade the same over the same period of time.

Awesome thread! x1 owner for a couple of years and this made a signifcant improvement in my case (about 3600 hours on the PJ so far).

Does anymore people have success (or failure) stories to tell? I have about 200 hrs. on my 4805, and when I clean the lamp, I'll also look at the colour wheel.

Has anyone cleaned the wheel on the 4805?

Hi SuperGoop - I successfully cleaned my color wheel on the 4805, as did Acksnay and a few others I believe. Here's my post describing my experience:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5358304&&#post5358304

At 200 hours you're probably not ready yet. Since there is some risk in doing it, I'd limit the cleaning to every 500 hours or so. Just my $.02.

Jeff

I agree with Jeff. 500 hours is the sweet spot for cleaning, unless your environment requires more often.

Thanks for the link.

I think that after the first cleaning, subsequent cleaning of the wheel may not have to be as frequent. I think the grime is mostly from the evaporating plastic from a new lamp. I assume the vapours from the lamp will be less overtime.

So maybe a short interval whenever a new lamp is installed, followed by longer intervals.

I pulled my X1 down, and when i looked at the color wheel, it was hazy at all, rather it was clear and shiny, except the colors dont match the colors in the picture at the beginning of the thread. they are more like yellow, green, red. i tried cleaning the color wheel, but after much cleaning, there was no visible difference.

what gives?

You may not have had any haze buildup on your wheel. on a hazy wheel the haze actually changes the color of the wheel as can be seen in this picture of the blue segment during cleaning. The haze makes the blue portion look yellow. Just make certain you have removed all haze the does exist to give you the best possible picture.

What colors should be on the wheel? Should there be a yellow part to the wheel? If not is there a way I can clean both sides of the wheel? I am not sure but it looks like I might have junk on both sides.

The color wheel should only have green, blue, red, and clear segments. Any other color may be due to haze mixing with the translucent color of the wheel.

Here is a clean wheel and dirty wheel segments to compare.

Dirty Wheel before cleaning.

As you can see, the haze mixes with the color of the wheel to create a different color. The haze makes the blue look yellow and the red look turquoise.

Yeah thats about what I expected, the only problem is that after I cleaned my color wheel the side that I could clean looks great, I can see my reflection in it. The problem is that there must be junk on the other side of it also since after cleaning it doesn't look anything like yours. It basicly looks that same as the dirty images only now I can see my reflection.

Anyone know if I can clean the otherside some how?

my x1 has nearly 1500 hours on it. I am now going to load the 4800 firmware onto it.

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but I had been wanting to clean my X1 for a while (1200 hours use, 2 years old), but I didnt want to take it down, well basically it is installed in my house and I was in such a hurry to see my 80" screen that I hooked it up after I moved in without cleaning. Well the other day I had some friends over and they were saying how great it was etc, but one friend as me can I make it brighter. Then it hit me, this wasn't the same colors and brightness that I had when I first got the X1. Well next day I opened up and the filter was dirty, and I cleaned it, and then I looked at the color wheel, which looked like it had no color to it. I cleaned it and immediately I was impressed with the color wheel itself! When I hooked up the projector, oh my god, awsome again, I love my X1 again! I think that is why I was unimpressed when I installed 4800 firmware on my X1 since the color wheel was dirty. Maybe now I should update to 4800 firmware.....

Yeah thats about what I expected, the only problem is that after I cleaned my color wheel the side that I could clean looks great, I can see my reflection in it. The problem is that there must be junk on the other side of it also since after cleaning it doesn't look anything like yours. It basicly looks that same as the dirty images only now I can see my reflection.

i am running into the same situation. the wheel is clean, i tried rubbing the blue segment which has the yellow look to it, but after about 5 minutes of rubbing the same spot, the color never changed. mine still looks like the pictures of dirty color wheels, only it is super shiny and reflective, not dirty at all.

anybody know why this would happen?

Don't over rub. You can get into the other section but it's a pita. Not sure about warranty implications. If you do get into the main light engine area do NOT clean the prism looking thing with alcohol, it is plastic! I would not mess around under warranty since the color wheels can go bad, and you do want it replaced under warranty, right?

my X1 has too many modifications, even if i did have a warranty, i wouldnt as soon as they cracked the case open.


i guess nobody has an aswer to mine and darkhorror's question, eh? doesnt make sense to me that my color wheel colors would be the same color as the dirty wheel pictures, yet they are reflective and there is no haze on it at all. short of the discoloration being on the opposite side of the color wheel, i cant figure out why that would be. anybody else?

Did any of you calibrate your projector pre and post cleaning, see if you were able to get better calibration results post cleaning? Like were you able to set the colors so they were more correct?

getting to the dirty side of the color wheel may involve removing the motot+wheel assembly; I hear it can be done ....

as to how it gets dirty, there's plenty of crap [scientific term] in the air, and outgassing from the plastics in the X1. heat most of them and they condense/accumulate on any cooler surface.

I have suggested in the past that infucus could sell a 'home theater tuneup' for X1/4800 owners -- thorough cleaning and eval of current bulb brightness. -- email back if the bulb is dim and should we replace ... ?

this is one case for a totally sealed light path ...

habbagoodone
Don't mind the colors from a picture. They are probably inaccurate or at least innacurate on your display.
If its dirty clean it. There is no reason you should try to rub the colors into different colors.
darkhorror
A lot of us do calibrate after all of these changes. Some may not.

My x1 only has 300ish hours on it, but is very old and was in a "rundown" house for over a year, completely uncared for.

On a scale of 1-10 how hard would it be for someone with no knowledge of this sort of thing to perform this cleaning?

Do you think I would have any benefit from it?

it is very easy if you just follow the directions in the beginning of this thread. all u need is some iso alcohol (or pure water) and some long q-tips. once u get the lamp out, u can look into the cavity left by the lamp housing and and see right to the color wheel.

good luck, dont rub too hard cuz the wheel can break! just take your time and be cautious.

please take and post some before and after pics so we can see the difference :)

Habba and Darkhorror,

Getting to the backside of the colorwheel is not all that difficult, the most challenging part is removing lens rings and the case, moreso if you don't know how to release the tabs behind the grills. Once you understand where the tabs are and how to release them it's a piece of cake. Actually, removing the case and shield is the only way I'll clean the front side of the wheel as well as I feel it's considerably safer as it allows far more control over pressure applied to the wheel when reaching in from the side as opposed to pushing straight on the wheel from the front as you'll see in the attached photo. You can also turn the wheel with your finger while cleaning which speeds the process considerably.

The front and backside of the colorwheel is protected by a sheild held in place with three screws, once the shield is remove you have full access. Be carefull when removing the shield, it has to lift straight up and there's little clearance between it and the wheel. I'd be very very carefull cleaning the backside, while the front is glass the back is where the films are applied. I have removed dust particles by gingerly wiping with a Q-tip but luckily there was no dirty residue to remove. If you need to remove a dirt layer I'd probably use a small amount of distilled water on a Q-tip and see if that does the trick.

Here's a photo of the access to the wheel you should expect when the case and shield is removed. This is the 4805 but I've done this one an X1 a couple times as well. It's not brain surgery but if you don't feel comfortable with this sort of thing leave the case alone.

i was under the assumption that the colors on the colorwheel were baked into the glass. u say they are a film, but many other X1 users state otherwise.

so who's right, baked in or applied film ?

i was under the assumption that the colors on the colorwheel were baked into the glass. u say they are a film, but many other X1 users state otherwise.

so who's right, baked in or applied film ?


I believe the film is a dichroic coating, which I believe is applied in microscopic multiple layers of material over either glass or possibly pyrex. I typically care for coated lens consistent with lens manufacturers recommended use of lens cleaning and soft cloth but I'm far more diligent with THESE colorwheels. I don't trust the quality of the final product due to cost/quality compromises which have already become apparent in the manufacture/sourcing of the bearing of the colorwheel and I'm not taking the chance these quality compromises end there. So whether the coating is baked, glued or stapled with a dash of fairy dust I'll assume the process/manufacturing has been compromised the end result being a coating not as durable as you may find with other like consumer goods.

Feel free to experiment though.

guys made a mess of the x1
had 1 bright spot on the lower right hand side knowing it was a dust blob took the courage opened the x1 cleant the lamp and lamp housing , checked the x1 the bright spot was still there
took more courage and opened up the top front and back cover of the x1 and made the cardinal mistake of blowing the dust off with a blower, opened the sealed optics clean it with dry cotton and took out the lens again cleant it with dry cotton
i know after going thr the post here i have made a huge blunder

now there are so many dust bright spots that i do not know what to do

in light to the above i have two questions

1) if i do send the machine to the autorized service center of infocus would they be able to clear the problem

2) is there a post here or any one who could help me clear this problem

Faiz,

There are a couple solutions, the link outlines one such solution for the 4805 which would be identical for the X1. Hopefully the blower you used simply deposited dust and not some sticky particulate matter.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=556431&highlight=dustblob

thanks a lot hugh2

have got the bust blob cleared withat procedure but now have got syuck with couple of other problems

1) my x1 is celing mounted an i have spacers to mark the point till which i screw in the x1 unit in the past whenever i took of the x1 and replaced it back on the mount there was no need to make any adjutments and my the picture would be diplayed properly across the screen now when i mounted the picture is 2 " less on the right hand side and no mateer what i am unable to increase the size of the picture

2) another thing that has happened i have to turn the focus ring completely on the right hand side (when facing the screen) for the picture to get sharper and there seems to be scope for more sharpness but the ring does not turn further again previous to the cleaning the focus ring would reach maximum sharpness with scope for the focus ring to turn on either side


3)nearly 1 1/2 feet on the near top right hand side outside the screen on the wall i am able to see 2 dust blob spots and also there a lot of light spill on the wall top of the screen

hoping that someone here would have some solution to my problem

thanks again for all the help

I figured I'd bump this, since newbies should see it.

First timers: your coating is not coming off. the problem is that you are a lazy/someday I'll do it smoker who burns to much incense. :p

I read in another post that there is some speculation that cleaning the color wheel can lead to the "buzzsaw effect" because it laterally stresses the color wheel bearing. Can any of you guys who have cleaned your color wheel chime in and post some long term outcomes (ie. 6 months after cleaning and no buzzsaw).

Thanks
Shawn

Sure it can lead to the buzzsaw effect. Just as much as dust buildup in the first place. Anything that throws the balance off the wheel would hurt.

Infocus got it wrong with the poor wheel design on their first round of DLP PJs, they just won't admit it and recall the whole lot since they aren't making any money.

My next PJ will be of a different design, and I've owned my X1 for almost 4 years now.

I read in another post that there is some speculation that cleaning the color wheel can lead to the "buzzsaw effect" because it laterally stresses the color wheel bearing. Can any of you guys who have cleaned your color wheel chime in and post some long term outcomes (ie. 6 months after cleaning and no buzzsaw).

Thanks
Shawn
I cleaned the color wheel on my 4805 twice, with the first time being about a year before I stopped using the projector. I'm not absolutely sure of the hours, but I believe I put at least 600 hours on the lamp since the first cleaning. I never developed the "buzz saw".

If you clean the wheel properly, you're using so little force on the q-tip that I can't imagine there's any lateral stress being applied to the bearing.

I read in another post that there is some speculation that cleaning the color wheel can lead to the "buzzsaw effect" because it laterally stresses the color wheel bearing. Can any of you guys who have cleaned your color wheel chime in and post some long term outcomes (ie. 6 months after cleaning and no buzzsaw).

Thanks
Shawn

I've cleaned the wheel in my 4805 4 times, pretty much each time I clean the lamp screens (no smokers but it's had a coating each time) and on two of those occasions I have noted slightly louder wheel noise on initial start-up which subsided within a few minutes. I've also cleaned a friends wheel which was dead quiet before and after cleaning.

I have just over 1000 hours on the wheel now and it's just as quiet as it was new.

I'll add that when I clean I don't go straight in from the lamp housing as I feel there's not enough control over pressure on the wheel so instead remove the case halves and the colorwheel shield. This allows me to access the wheel from the side with a short Q-tip with one hand and I can turn the wheel with the other. Very quick and damn near spaz proof.

I just completed the color wheel cleaning on my Infocus LP530. With 900 hours on the bulb, the amount of dirt was less than I expected to find. I ended up having to completely disassemble the PJ except for the "sealed" optical system (this looked much more buttoned up than the pics I've seen for the X1) in order to gain unfettered access to both sides of the color wheel.

I used the Eclipse solution (methanol-based) with Q-tips. The solution evaporated quickly, leaving minimal residue which could be removed by dry buffing

Initial impressions:

Colors are more accurate - I noticed a 10% or so improvement (eyeballing it, no measurements). My PJ has an annoying problem of being too green during dark scenes; i.e., I can calibrate the color balance OK for bright levels (80 - 100 IRE), but dark levels (10-30 IRE) have too much green. There's no provision for green cut or bias, so I can't set a minimum threshold. Cleaning the color wheel has reduced the green bias somewhat, and yellows/orange are slightly improved.

Black levels are improved, mostly due to the decreased light scattering from a debris-free color wheel. Previously, "blacks" were actually suffing from green smear; now they look more neutral.

Perceived brightness is about the same; with improved black level the contrast ratio has improved very slightly.

WOW. In the 4 years I've owned my X1 I never saw this thread or anything similar. I had 3,000 hours collected, and I thought the colors were shot. Blacks looked very grey and everything overall just looked faded. After cleaning the wheel there was a drastic improvement. It's actually kind of astounding. I do not agree with some of the pictures in this thread. I think certain X1's use a different wheel because mine wasn't the same color after cleaning as the first post in this thread. Now if I could just fix the dust blob I have then my X1 would look just as good as the day I got it.

Yep makes a massive difference after that much time. As for the dust blob thats just as easy to fix theres a thread around for that as well. I've moved on to a HD1000U since these days but I remember this well it was so great. Congrats and enjoy.

Another testimonial here.

My X1 is 3.5 yrs old with 1800 hrs. I've cleaned the filters a few times but never examined the Color wheel. Just like the OP and others who have provided feedback in this thread, my cw was nasty. I used 70% isophophyl alcohol on Qtips (taped 2 together with masking tape) and it was like cleaning the spring pollen off your car windshield. Amazing how much of a film was on that thing.

I couldn't wait until tonight to test it so I fired it up in the daytime in my semi-darkened (curtains) room and the difference was very noticable.

I'm aggrivated that I didn't notice or pay more atttention to this thread sooner. lol. Now I think I can hold off buying a new lamp or another proj for a bit longer.

Excellent thread and excellent suggestion. Definately worth an hour of your time if your X1 is dim and dingy looking.

:cool:

3.5 yrs old with 1800 hrs
I salute you!

3.5 yrs old with 1800 hrs
I salute you!

lol.. ceiling mounted and always turned off via the on/off switch. Mainly just an HDTV and movie proj used sparingly. :)

My situation is very similar to Dog's. I'm actually embarassed to say that I only have just over 1200 hrs on my X1 and I've had it just as long. It's in a dedicated theater and it's used primarily for movies and HD viewing. My viewing time was severely hampered by the arrival of my daughter a couple of years ago. Somehow, spending long hours on the weekend watching movies is just not possible w/ a 2 year old with the attention span of a tick.

I too recently performed this color wheel cleaning. I was starting to feel like my picture quality was deteriorating, both in brightness and clarity. I also had done the filter cleaning and lens cleaning periodically, but it still seemed to be going downhill. The actual process is pretty straightforward, thanks to these directions. The only thing I found is that i could never get the wheel completely clean, having some level of streaks on there no matter what I did. Regardless, it was much cleaner than before, though it wasn't quite as dirty as some of the pics earlier in this thread.

I did feel that I gained in the brightness area. However, I was still suffering on the clarity side. no matter what I do, I feel like the picture is somewhat out of focus. Even the wife has commented that HD just doesn't have the punch that it used to....the 'awe' factor has diminished. To make things worse, I somehow added to the problem. When the picture is black or very dim, I am seeing faint light spots outside of the viewing/screen area on the wall. It's there, regardless of what the source is. At first, I thought that I got something on the lens, but it's been cleaned a couple of times and there is nothing visibly on the surface. Perhaps something got blown into the lens housing somehow. Either way, It's not that noticeable, but it's still annoying.

So, to summarize, this maintenance work should probably be reserved for X1s w/ more hours on them then mine and it should be undertaken with care. I was very careful with every step, but somehow something went wrong. Good Luck.

could it just be brighter overall? causing the light spots to be brighter?

Gotta chime in here with my own experience. Yesterday someone was over and tried to turn on the projector and was met with a loud buzzsaw noise.

I cam here yesterday to do a quick search to see if there was any common problems on the x1. Found this thread and figured it would be a good idea. Took the projector down to clean it all out(fans etc).

When I looked at the color wheel I couldn't necessarily tell at first glance it was dirty. I'd never really looked at one before so didn't know what I should be seeing. Colors were uniform across the wheel. Yellow, cyan, Magenta. They kindy looked cloudy so I figured ok I guess it must be dirty and that's why the colors look cloudy.

Boy when I took the q-tip to it I was in for a surprise. "ohhhh that's what it's supposed to look like". Took awhile to get it clean. Tried water and wasn't having a ton of success so switched to a vinegar and water solution. WOrked like a charm.

I couldn't believe it when I turned the PJ back on. It seriously was like a new bulb. I was shocked at how bright it was even in the daytime with a lot of ambient light in the room. I have gotten into the habit of having to watch darker shows upstairs on my RPTV because it can be too hard to see downstairs.

Projector is 3.5 years old. First bulb had around 2400hrs when it blew(on Superbowl sunday an hour before the game) and second bulb has around 1500 on it.

This is a very useful procedure indeed. I tried it on my 4805 with the same results as you X1 owners. But then the 4805 is nearly identical in design to the X1.

Now if I could just get someone to show me how to clean the color wheel on my IN76 that would be awesome!. I 've just gone over 1000hrs and I've noticed some degredation in picture quality. Slightly less bright and muted colors.... ;)

My color wheel was so terribly ugly that even alcohol wouldn't do anything but leave it streaked so I moved on to brake cleaner. (AutoZone brand) I gently used the eraser end of a new pencil on the center of the wheel to turn and hold the wheel and bent the tips of the swabs to give them a little flex. The end result is a much quieter, brighter, and clearer X1.

-EL

Well, my color wheel broke tonight. Does anyone have any idea if I'm going to be able to buy a replacement and if so, how much $ its going to cost me? I have a service manual, so I should be able to replace it myself. I'm just not sure if I'm going to be able to get a replacement color wheel for the $20 or so that I think it SHOULD cost... Has anyone else had experience with this? I'll try calling Infocus tomorrow, but it was too late tonight. BTW, my X1 is over 3 years old, so I'm out of warranty. And just for the record, my projector has over 9,000 hours on two bulbs, although both of my bulbs still work! I just wish the color wheels lasted a bit longer as I think this color wheel was already replaced about a year ago...

Not sure if anyones paying attention, but I figured I'd give an update since my last post. I called Infocus today and was told that they don't sell spare parts. If I want my Infocus X1 fixed, I can send it back and they'll replace the 15 cent color wheel for the low low price of $565.00. **** that and **** Infocus. I've enjoyed using my X1 for the past 3 years, but if you're not willing to sell spare parts to your customers or to charge reasonable prices for simple repairs, my next projector will come from a different company. In the meantime, I'm gonna go to a local place that I think does Infocus repairs and see if I can make friends with someone who will sell me a part...

Labor intensive=expensive!
Try to get the part if you are good at this sort of thing, otherwise it may be time to move on...
Mine is still alive, resting in my closet.

Just finished cleaning my lamp and colour wheel and it looks great. Unfortunately, after putting everything back together I'm not getting any image. Here's what happens...

1) Switch Power On
2) Colour wheel starts spinning and the green light on the projector is flashing
3) However, the two fans do not start spinning and no light is coming from the lamp
4) After 10 seconds the colour wheel stops spinning. Then, 30-40 seconds later it starts spinning again and this cycle keeps repeating.

I don't know if it is stuck in some maintenance routine or if it's finally died. I have over 5000 hours so I'm not too worried as I've been getting ready to upgrade, however if I could last a couple of more months that would be ideal.

Any ideas on what I could try next or do you guys think it's dead?

Damn...I fixed it! :) Despite my "best intentions", it looks like I'll have to wait a bit longer before I upgrade. The safety switch from the lamp housing wasn't seated properly so that's why the projector wasn't starting. A quick look at the service manual confirmed this, and after I fixed this issue it started perfectly.

For what it's worth, I performed the following maintenance work...

-Completely opened the projector including removing the colour wheel shield
-Cleaned both sides of the colour wheel (used 99% Isopropyl on the "front" side and water on the "back' side)
-Cleaned the bulb screens (250 hours was up again)
-Cleaned the bulb compartment glass using 99% Isopropyl

Since I'm currently on 5300 hours I think it's safe to say that cleaning the wheel for the first time has made a noticeable difference. It's brighter and the colours seem more accurate. Just wish I had come across this thread a lot sooner! I'll wait until tonight, once it's darker, to more fully verify the improvements.

Thanks to everyone who has contributed in this thread. My X1 can now go into the light holding its head up high! ;)

Anyone tried a little lubrication on the color wheel to get rid of the noise while having the X1 opened?
Richard

I read in this forum that they cannot be lubricated.

Where are all the discarded x-1's. This was such a popular unit a few years ago you would think there are many of these with various types of failures that can be used for parts. I would like to get my hands on one for a used bulb & color wheel. My color wheel noise is very infrequent but I know it will get worse. I would like to squeeze another year out of it before upgrading. I am still satisfied with the picture, for now, having followed the cleaning instructions here.

Wayne,
I still have mine also, but I remember hearing a while back when everyone was upgrading that many people either dumped them on ebay, sold them to friends, or have kept them as a second/kids projector.

Anyone tried a little lubrication on the color wheel to get rid of the noise while having the X1 opened?
I tried it even though it is not supposedly necessary. Didn't help. I think that once the bearing is worn, it will be noisy from then on.

Here are some pictures (sorry about some of the bluriness) I took of the colour wheel before and after cleaning. It's pretty obvious how much the wheel needed this procedure.

X1 Colour Wheel Before Cleaning

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1342/1018687550_980471478b.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1312/1018687760_ce02ece55a.jpg

X1 Colour Wheel After Cleaning

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1259/1018687954_5c8c84a5a9.jpg

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1166/1018687932_3fd9824198.jpg

Here are some larger versions of the above pictures...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1342/1018687550_980471478b_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1312/1018687760_ce02ece55a_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1259/1018687954_5c8c84a5a9_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1166/1018687932_3fd9824198_b.jpg

Finally, here are some HD broadcast images after the cleaning. As others have often mentioned, these cannot capture the exact quality of the image but they don't look too bad for an X1 with over 5300 hours...

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1258/1018688052_91be2ae92a.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1150/1034323264_4b78809478.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1295/1034323160_f00213a3f5.jpg

Once again, larger versions...
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1258/1018688052_91be2ae92a_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1150/1034323264_4b78809478_b.jpg
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1295/1034323160_f00213a3f5_b.jpg

Good luck to those who try this.

I guess I'm one of the unlucky ones on this. :( My X1 too was so dim I could not make out things on the screen and playing Halo was almost impossible to see what I was shooting at. It was also showing some weird faint "northern lights" pattern.

At first I thought it was the bulb dimming on me (~2700 hours,) so I bought a new one...NOPE!

Then I found this thread and cleaned my color wheel...NOPE!

Then I thought that I didn't clean it enough, so I opened up my X1 and cleaned the backside of the cw...NOPE!

Then I thought I left streaks on the wheel with the Q-Tip and also thought that it should look RGB instead of YCM (as some here have seen--could not change the colors--though light reflecting through it did look RGB,) so I cleaned it with a lens cleaning kit as well as pulling the lenses and cleaning every bit of optics I could find...NOPE!

Which brings me to what I think it is...when I pulled the prism out to clean it, I noticed thousands of micro fractures in it. They were not scratches; they were internal to the prism. I could not see through it clearly. When I put it all back together and examined the "northern lights" I was seeing on the screen, it did look like a half radial pattern consistent with what I saw in the prism. Anyone else examine their prism?? What did it look like??

Link to an image of my prism (http://home.comcast.net/~djalpert/images/100_1961.JPG)

The prism's surfaces are perfectly clean and flawless.

Cipher
Dang! Those screenshots make me want to drag that thing out of the closet!

If I want my Infocus X1 fixed, I can send it back and they'll replace the 15 cent color wheel for the low low price of $565.00. **** that and **** Infocus.

That was funny. Good luck in your search. I'm sure, btw, there's a decent (well, let's hope) reason for not selling spare parts.

Anyone parting out an X1 that I can buy a prism from??
http://home.comcast.net/~djalpert/images/100_1961_small.JPG
Thanks,
Dan

Just cleaned the color wheel on my 4805 (3100 hours on THIS lamp) and still looking great.

Suggestion: take a bamboo skewer and wrap a cotton ball around the blunt-end and tape it to the stem. LIGHTLY dampen the end of the cotton ball and use it to spin the color wheel as you hold the cotton swap in one place. It made the procedure quicker.

I'm going to wait for the new laser projectors to come down in price and in front projector format.

No more lamps, no more color wheels and years of diode use...lasers are cheap to replace. Hell, they have the Microvision unit almost ready to roll at around $250 for a pocket unit the size of an iPod.

Thanks for the thread!

thanks for rebumping this thread conch, I had completely forgotten about this. I know I'd done it back a few years ago but it had slipped my mind since. Took the X1 down, marveled at how cloudy the wheel had gotten, cleaned her up and the colors were popping bright again.