It seems like about a dozen or so members have received their 3805's over the last few days and are busy setting them up in their systems. It doesn't appear that the Denon auto-eq mics are available yet, so we'll either have to wait for those to come in or wait for someone to dare to use a non-Denon mic for setup.

I've looked at the 3803 and many of Pioneer's Elite receivers as well as Yamaha's 1400 and 2400, but the 3805 seems like quite the new contender. I'd be interested in hearing first impressions from new owners. How's the remote, how's intitial setup (w/ or w/o the mic), build quality, etc.? Are you new to Denon components or is this an upgrade from one of their earlier models?

Also what are some of the quirks? I've already seen some confusion as to front-panel display illumination and remote control issues. How "user friendly" is this receiver overall. Will it meet the ever-crucial WAF?


Maybe this thread will be a bust...maybe it'll be a resource. We'll wait and see.


J.

I had the 3802/03 and now the 3805,its a big improvement,I think the remote is pretty good also.I have had a bunch lately and the 3805 is the only one I considered worth keeping.There is nothing I don't like about this avr except the fact that it does not sound as good as my Rotel 1068 for pre/pro duh...For features its the bomb and still better even as a pre/pro than the other 1k avr's I tried.Its the only one that I can even tolerate music on.

I'll add my first impressions as well. I finally got mine hooked up this afternoon and couldn't be happier. The good news for me is that I have it partnered up with my new Denon 5900 DVD player. My current hook up is as follows:
Denon iLink for DVD Audio and DVD Video
Optical Digital for Sony HD300 STB
Multi Channel Analog input from from 5900 as well

So far, set up has been pretty user friendly. I am a former owner of a Yamaha 2400 (traded up at Tweeter for the 3805 today) and will use that as a comparison point. Set up on the 3805 is more difficult than the Yamaha 2400. The manual is pretty suspect compared to the Yamaha manual. I feel like I did when I first got the 5900. Pretty confused. I'm not using the component switching since all my equipment uses DVI. I have the output set to svideo for OSD Menu.

I haven't touched the EQ settings based on my inexperience in this area, but it looks pretty user friendly once you get the mic. Very similar to the Yamaha. Speaker set up and Input set up are very easy to work through. Typical Speaker size and delay.

One feature I fell in love with on the Yamaha was the DPLIIX (music) and (cinema). My current set up is a 7.1 arrangement so DPLIIx is nice. When listening to DVD Audio (surround sound) the Denon iLink automatically processes the multi channel output and the sound is unbelievable. So far the marriage between the 5900 DVD player and the 3805 is great. DVDs sound great as well. The Yammy sounded a tad better in my opinion on the DVD Video side, but I think the EQ settings played a roll in that. I'll report back once I get the EQ settings done.

SACD via the Analog inputs is nice as well, but this comes from the 5900. I haven't listened to many, but Elton John's GBYBR sounded great. The only hassle I had was having to go into the 5900 menu and disable the Denon link to get the right sound. No major issues from the 3805 perspective.

Comparing the Yammy and the Denon from a features perspective I found myself a bit sad. I liked the DSP modes that the Yammy offered. I found that watching TV shows in different modes was experimental and fun. With the Denon , you have a few choices but no where near what the Yammy offered. It also seemed like the Yammy directed the audio better when I was listening to two channel audio outputting with DPLIIx. This may be an EQ issue.

I have found that the remote does get a little tricky. I like it better than the Yammy remote because it has the ability to do all my DVD switching as well. I haven't done any "learning" with other components so stay tuned for that one. One area I have had problems with was getting the DPLIIx off. Once I clicked it on, when I went back to standard surround it stayed on. Not sure what is going on.

Audio quality is stunning IMO. Once I got everything fired up, I let it fly and it sounded clear and very sharp with my Klipsch speakers. The Denon iLink is the deal maker for me. Frankly, if it wasn't for that I personally enjoyed the Yammy a tad bit more. The audio is very comparable and the set up and manual were a tad bit easier to walk through. I do think the EQ settings will help out on the overall sound quality. More to follow.

Cabber...Do you still use the Analog in/out instead of D-link for some purposes...Which ones?

I have the 5900 and a 3803, thinking of upgrading.

Thanks

Hay Cabber

I'm kind of in the same boat, about whether or not to keep the 2400 or trade it in for the 3805. You see I bought my 2400 at Tweeter's two weeks ago, with the idea that when the 3805 came out I would go to Tweeter's and compare the two, and then pick the best one, but the salesman at TW told me that they ran out of stock on the 2400 and even sold the demo, so now I can't compare them side to side, and also that he did'nt know how long the 3805's would be in stock. So I would be very interested in your comments about the 3805 and any comparison's or opinions you might have between the two.

Thank-You Bob

Originally posted by moonhawk
Cabber...Do you still use the Analog in/out instead of D-link for some purposes...Which ones?

I have the 5900 and a 3803, thinking of upgrading.

Thanks

Yes, I use the Analog in/out for SACD purposes. The way it has been explained to me was that Denon is waiting for approval form Sony to be able to pass through SACD via the Denon iLink (5900 DVD player). This would eliminate the use of all the analog cables once this happens.

I do think that a few of my DVD-A disk sound better via the Denon iLink versus the SACD Analog disks.

Originally posted by bobdons1
Hay Cabber

I'm kind of in the same boat, about whether or not to keep the 2400 or trade it in for the 3805. You see I bought my 2400 at Tweeter's two weeks ago, with the idea that when the 3805 came out I would go to Tweeter's and compare the two, and then pick the best one, but the salesman at TW told me that they ran out of stock on the 2400 and even sold the demo, so now I can't compare them side to side, and also that he did'nt know how long the 3805's would be in stock. So I would be very interested in your comments about the 3805 and any comparison's or opinions you might have between the two.

Thank-You Bob

Bob,

I'd say right now...it depends. I really enjoyed the feature set with the 2400. As I mentioned above, the main reason for my switching receivers was the marriage between the 5900 DVD player and the Denon receiver. Pretty much plug and play using the Denon link and the sound quality is superb. The Yammy also comes with the m ic to set up your personal environment versus the Denon "no mic" situation. On a physical appearance side, I like the looks o f the Denon a bit more, but no a deal maker. The Yammy was pretty sharp as well. DOes your Yammy have the DPLIIX feature? If you plan to upgrade your speaker config, you'll enjoy this feature. I thought the Yammy did better with this feature while watching 2 channel audio from the TV (STB). The Denon offers 7.1 (8) channel analog input for analog. The Yammy only had 5.1 (6). Once again, this feature may assist with future upgrades of speaker set up.

From an audio perspective, I have no complaints with either. The Denon link seems to make DVD Audio a bit cleaner to my ears but I have not utilized the EQ settings for final results. Both have enough power for my environment. Set up is easier with the Yammy. Changing DSP modes I give the advantage to the Yammy. The Yammy also offers THX (if you ever use it). One other feature the Denon offers is the ability to hook up additional Surround speakers. You have a choice of adding two more on the side (A and B). You can configure the receiver to use both or one set based on your personal preference. Overkill for me (at this time), but who knows what the future holds.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.

Thanks for the info so far you guys. I'm debating whether or not to go ahead and pre-order the 3805, so all of your input really helps! Apparently there are more than just a few 3805 owners out there. It's good to hear about the different listening modes, as most of my use will be 2-channel and multichannel audio. I've never been too concerned with the different DSP modes, but that's probably because I've never used them.

Keep the info coming!

J.

My 3805 should be at my local Showcase (Tweeter Company) today! They were nice enough to do it for $999 and loan me a mic when they get them in for free. I knew there was a reason I keep going back to Showcase.

I can't wait to set this receiver up today. I am upgrading from a Pioneer Elite 27tx. This is a major upgrade for me. (Component switching, PL IIx, etc.) I will post when I get it all setup.

Brian

Brian-

Sounds like a pretty good price, especially with the loaner mic. I, too, am upgrading from a significantly older receiver, Sony's DE845 (not in the same league as the Pioneer). I got it a few years ago for a couple hundred bucks and it has served me pretty well, but it's time for it to go (into the basement!).

Let us know how the setup goes!

J.

Well, just took possession of both my Denon AVR-3805 and my Denon DVD-2900. Didn't think I was going to see either of them until around the 1st of April but looks like Tweeter's came through for me. The only problem I'm having now is hanging around the office till quitting time. I've already told the wife not to make any plans for me this afternoon.

The way it has been explained to me was that Denon is waiting for approval form Sony to be able to pass through SACD via the Denon iLink (5900 DVD player). This would eliminate the use of all the analog cables once this happens.
This raises some questions.
Will the 5900 keep the signal in DSD domain or will it convert it to PCM?
If it keeps it DSD,is the 3805 equiped as such to handle "raw"DSD signal,or will it convert to PCM?
Also, wasn't the Denon link was sorta "handicapped" by the many copyprotected DVD-As that wouldn't pass through?

Hooked up 3805 with 7.1 speaker, DVD, VCR etc. Sound very good on my old speakers. DVD-A with external input (5.1) sound clean when used pure direct mode on 3805 receiver and audio only on DVD player. I hope Denon will produce a DVD player with denon link 3 for less than $1000 or even less than $500. I will love to use auto-eq feature once Denon mic is available.

I got the 3805 setup last night and all I can say is wow. It sounds superb right out of the box!

I plan on playing with the EQ tonight. Tomorrow I will be setting up my kitchen speakers on Zone 2. I have 5.1 in the receiver now, so I plan to use the rear surrounds for the Zone 2 setup. The ability to play a different source to a different zone and control the volume from this unit was critical for the wife approval factor!

Next purchase will be a 5900 so I can use iLink :D

This raises some questions.
Will the 5900 keep the signal in DSD domain or will it convert it to PCM?
If it keeps it DSD,is the 3805 equiped as such to handle "raw"DSD signal,or will it convert to PCM?
No. The 5900 converts the DSD signal to LPCM. I obtained this answer by Kris Deering in this thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=369801

I went to my local Tweeter here in South Jersey and picked up the 3805 today. I am replacing an older Denon 3802. I wanted to have a receiver that was a bit more up to date. My 3802 was becoming just a bit dated.

My first impression opening the box was not too good. At first I thought I got a unit that had been returned because it had masking tape holding the items in the box (see picture). After I looked some more I guessed that this was done because Denon did not have a new custom foam insert to hold the remote and other items. Kind of piss poor if you ask me but I went ahead and took it out of the box to begin setup.

Using a flashlight I looked inside through the vents to see whatever was visible. First thing that struck me was the power supply. It is the exact same power supply as in the older 3802. I could tell this because of the part numbers on the power supplies were the same! Aside from the common power supply everything else looked different.

The layout of the connections are good. A little more organized than the 3802 was. In my opinion anyway.

I'm using my 3805 to do component video switching. I feed a HD cable box and a DVD to the unit. When I was playing around with the new 3805 during setup I noticed some lines showing up on the TV whenever I select an unused video input. I was afraid that this 'noise' or whatever it is would end up making its way onto the video signals of anything the 3805 was controlling. So far I have not been able to see any interference when viewing a signal (cable HD or DVD), only seems to be visible when selecting an empty input. I'll look at this more over the weekend.

The setup menu is just about the same as the older 3802 with the exception of the additional items for EQ , etc. It is the same dull , boring display graphics. Nothing fancy. But it works.

My 3805 feeds Klipsch RF3 series speakers. Initial audio performance judgment is that it is slightly better than the 3802 was. Difficult to do an A / B type comparison between the two units obviously but having been used to the 3802 for a couple of years I was able to tell some difference. It sounds a little more brighter , perhaps I am noticing a bit more detail. The older 3802 only had single ended DACs on each channel. The 3805 has dual differential DACs on each channel. Possibly I'm noticing some more resolution in the audio. I will do more audio tests over the weekend !

I discovered that I could use my Radio Shack sound level meter as a calibration microphone ! See the pictures in the post following this one. I set my Radio Shack meter to the 80 scale, C weighting, and fast response mode. Connected an audio coax from it to the V. AUX L jack on the front panel of the 3805 and in the setup menu of the 3805 I selected V. AUX instead of MIC. During the auto EQ setup it takes the signal being fed into it from that input instead of the microphone jack !! And it worked. It successfully determined the speaker configuration/distance/ and EQ settings. (Well I guess one could say that the EQ settings are hard to tell if they are really correct or not but they sound pretty good once applied). So there you have it. I'll post more as I play more with it.

see pic

see pic

Just a little tip, you should get a better auto EQ job if the RS meter is pointed straight up, so all speakers would have equal "sight" of the mic. You probably already knew that though.

But just in case you didn't.

Best Regards,
Patrick

Thanks NeoSNJ for posting auto eq setting tricks !!!

Interesting and useful information about the use of Radio Shack sound level meter instead of microphone. I will pick up that meter from Radio Shack and will do some testing tonight. This meter may be more useful for future than microphone also cost less than Denon mic.

Originally posted by NeoSNJ
I discovered that I could use my Radio Shack sound level meter as a calibration microphone !

Interesting.

Originally posted by avaholic
Just a little tip, you should get a better auto EQ job if the RS meter is pointed straight up, so all speakers would have equal "sight" of the mic. You probably already knew that though.

But just in case you didn't.

Best Regards,
Patrick

Yes... I did do the calibration with it pointing up, but when I took the picture I just happened to have it pointed down.

During the AUTO EQ calibration the 3805 sounds a 1 to 2 second burst out of each speaker. When I watch the Radio Shack meter is appears to be around 85 db on the meter. That is why I chose to set it on the 80 scale so that it was operating in a 'working' range of the 3805 output calibration tone.

Hey Cabber

Thanks for the quick reply, and to answer your question yes mine has the DLPIIx, but I haven't tried it yet, because I'm running a 5.1 system. The main reason I upgraded from a H/K 320 to the yammy is 5 channels verse 7 channels, more power and video up conversion, I wanted the extra two channels for powering a set of speakers on my deck. I guess my problem is that I want to make sure that, for the money, that I get the better receiver. I did a comparison at T/W about two months ago between the 2400 and the then 3803, and I was impressed with the sound, and build quality of both receivers, but I was surprised as to how speaker sensitivity changed the sound characterirtics of both these receivers, I.E. the 2400 sounded really clean and detailed on speakers with a rating of 90db and higher, and dull and boomy, on speakers 89db and below, and just the opposite on the 3803 the speakers were Boston acoustic's, and the Sapphire (90db and up), and the Mirage (89db and below), all tower speakers. I did alot of research on both these receivers and did not find were anybody else noticed this anomaly. Ops, ran out of room (NEXT POST DOWN)

Cabber
Sorry didn't mien to get off on a rave. I would be interested in knowing what kind of speakers you are using? I'm using Wharfedale Sapphire 89's front, and SP 83's rear, with a JBL Center, and sub.

Thanks Bob

It's pretty neat that you can hook up the Rat Shack SPL meter to the 3805, but I would have a pretty big concern over using it since it is so notoriously inaccurate (100hz down and 2000-10000hz).

http://www.rivesaudio.com/files/Spl.pdf

Also, it's kind of hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like your Klipsch's are either facing straight foward or are possibly even toed out. Klipsch really recommends aiming them in far enough that the outer angle of the horn is parallel to the side walls or further in. Just a thought...I don't know if you can do that with your room or not since I haven't seen the rest of it, but it might be worth a try if your setup permits.

I e-mailed Denon to see what kind of non-Denon microphone can be used with the 3805 that will provide accurate results. Here is their response:

The specs for Non-Denon microphones and required mic amplifier for use with the AVR-3805 auto setup and room EQ function are as follows:

Required Microphone Specifications

Element: Electric Condenser Microphone
Polar Pattern: Omni-directional
Sensitivity: -40dBV (0dB = 1V/1Pa)
Frequency Response: 20~20kHz Flat Response (Ex: Behringer ECM-8000)

Required Microphone Amplifier Specification

Gain: 29dB
Frequency Response: 10~30kHz Full Flat
Jason

Originally posted by jasonwatkins
I e-mailed Denon to see what kind of non-Denon microphone can be used with the 3805 that will provide accurate results. Here is their response:
And here is that Behringer ECM-8000, that they said would work.
And for about $25 less, than the cost of the $65 Denon microphone.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=248-625

Interesting thing trying to setup the second zone - I wired two speakers to the Surround Back L/R and set the Power Amp Assign for Zone2 to drive them. I popped an audio cd into my DVD-2200 and set the Zone2 input to DVD...nothing.

So I read more and found out that I can't get a digital signal to the Zone2 or Zone3 (and my DVD is hooked in via digital coax only.) So I grabbed my trusty Canare crimp tool and a few lenghts of Belden 1694A and made up some RCA cables for an analog connection. Suddenly, there was beautiful sound in my kitchen!

What's cool is that the main zone is playing the digital signal while Zone2 is playing the analog signal. I didn't know I could do that :confused:

Of course, it then took me an hour to program the macro to turn on just zone 2 and the dvd player :(

Well now I am going out to get a mic...

Okay, I'm new to Denon products so you have to hang with me. When cutting up the volume on the receiver it is supposed to display your volume settings on the television. I'm running component cables to the tv along with s-video cables. When the tv is set to the s-video input, it displays the volume settings on the tv. But, when I switch to the component input on the television, NOTHING. Is there a setting I need to change to correct this. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Unfortunately the 'overlay' does not work on component. The setup menu can be displayed via component but the on screen display only is visible via the lesser video input modes. I was a bit disappointed to find this out myself on mine.

Kwkarth apparently hooked up composite connections as well and was able to display functions when using component. See "Just got my 3805" thread. I don't know...but he seems to have something working.

J.

Here's the deal on the OSD - the best I can tell. I too have the 3805 and the OSD overlay will work on component, but your component input on your TV/Monitor must be able to accept a 480i signal. On my Sammy DLP Component 1 will accept 480i/p and Components 2&3 will accept 480p and higher, not 480i.

Which sucks because my HD Sat box is obviously fed thru component 2(or3) and the on-screen won't work. When the 3805 monitor out is fed to my Sammy Component 1, the OSD works, but Component 1 on my Sammy won't accept a high def signal.

Ultimately, it won't matter for me cause this going to fed to a new Optoma H76 PJ whose component inputs accept 480i through 1080i.

Otherwise, great little receiver so far.

I got my 3805 last night (replacing a 3803) and so far so good. The remote is kind of cool but I will stick my my MX500. I have not been able to do any type of critical listening yet to compare to 3803 but so far it does sound as good if not better. I like the overall look of the receiver: I was getting tired of 2800 then 3802 then 3803. The display is nice but quit larger than the one on the 3803. It might actually be a distraction during a movie.
I am glad I sold my 3803 for $700 and bought the 3805 for $900. The $200 upgrade was worth it.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Kwkarth apparently hooked up composite connections as well and was able to display functions when using component. See "Just got my 3805" thread. I don't know...but he seems to have something working.
J.
Yes that is correct. Here's the deal:
The internal character generator seems to only function at 480i. So If you're watching any source material that is 480p, 720p, 1080i, etc, the receiver will NOT overlay setup screens on top of those component images, but will blank whatever source you're watching and send the character generator output to the component outs at 480i. As dfrey mentioned, your monitor has to be able to synch with that signal to display the setup screens. I have my PJ hooked up to the component out of the 3805 and my HD Cable receiver and progressive DVD hooked to component inputs of the receiver. I wanted to continue to be able to view my video source while tweaking the setup menu so I hooked a composit out from both the DVD and Cable receiver to the appropriate composit video ins in the 3805. Now when I bring up the setup menu, the 3805 overlays the setup screen on top of the composit version of whatever video source I happen to be watching and sends it to the component out. The on screen volume display overlay does not show up on the component out regardless.

Well I have spent a good number of hours playing around with my 3805 I picked up on Friday. So far basically I am pleased. I can live with the unit not being able to do a video overlay when viewing component signal sources. The unit does display the setup menus on the component outputs, just not as an overlay on top of the existing video signal.

I however have an issue with the new remote that comes with the 3805. While it looks really cool. And how it lights up when it is picked up there is a flaw, at least on mine anyway. I have discovered that sometimes the display on my 3805 keeps changing intensity. Even though I set it to be bright sometimes I notice it has gone to dim or even to off. And I found out why. The remote is sending out the command to toggle the display brightness on the 3805. If I set the remote down on a hard surface the jolt is triggering the button for brightness. Sometimes if I try to use the remote and use buttons that are near the display brightness button it keeps changing the brightness even though I'm trying to stay away from that button. I also notice that it feels like the pressure needed to toggle the brightness is very light. It would seem that on my remote the button under the flat surface is over sensitive. I would rather have a remote that has real buttons. Too hard to 'feel' what is being pressed.

So far the audio quality is good. The remote I say is a big letdown.

My remote was defective as well. I took it back to my dealer and they gave me a new remote on the spot.

Seems Denon dropped the ball on the remote for the 3805. Mine only displays half of the buttons. Seems to work overall but its a pain to use when your not sure exactly where the buttons are. Taking it back to the dealer today to see if they will swap it out.

So as far as the issue with the 3805 and component OSD, is this new to Denon equipment? Is this something that is or will be showing up in other manufacturer's receivers or is this an atypical setup. How does Yamaha's 1400 or 2400 do OSD?

Kind of surprising to hear that there are already 2 defective remote controls out there. Hopefully those will be isolated experiences.

Has anybody received their Denon mics yet?

J.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
So as far as the issue with the 3805 and component OSD, is this new to Denon equipment? Is this something that is or will be showing up in other manufacturer's receivers or is this an atypical setup. How does Yamaha's 1400 or 2400 do OSD?
Has anybody received their Denon mics yet?
J.
Re the OSD, the 3805 and some of the newer AVReceivers now have the ability to at least output *something* to the component outs, even if it is only 480i. On most receivers, *no OSD output* to component outputs is the norm, so at least they're moving in the right direction.

Just returning from Tweeter's. Showed them what the remote was/wasn't doing properlly and they exchanged it with another remote. No problems what so ever. Thats the kind of customer service that keeps people like me going back to they're store for more business.

Can anyone tell me why "Multi" is lit on the display? I have PowerAmp set to Surround Back (no SB speakers, though), Zone2 and Zone3 inputs set to Source, and Zone2 and Zone3 powered off.

How many owners of the 3805 have had problems (other than familiarity) with their remotes?

Also, have any of you (lucky *******s) gotten your mics yet?

J.

That wasn't supposed to look that dirty. I just said *******, it's a type of fencing sword...like an epee.

If you want to use the Behringer microphone instead of waiting for the Denon one, how do you hook it up. Apparently it needs some sort of external amplifier and conversoin cable to be able to connect to the 3805?

azarby

Here is the other mic that will work according to Denon, for a cost of $39. But you will need a adapter. As it comes with a XLR connector. So figure on about another $8 to $10 for the needed adapter, because lit looks like you will need two. Both a XLR to 1/4" and then a 1/4" to 1/8"

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=248-625&ctab=2#Tabs

Originally posted by azarby
If you want to use the Behringer microphone instead of waiting for the Denon one, how do you hook it up. Apparently it needs some sort of external amplifier and conversion cable to be able to connect to the 3805?
You may want to email Denon about that, as they are the ones that said the Behringer microphone would work with the 3805. But if needs a amp or some sort of "boost" then I would guess it needs one of these adapter, with a transformer in it. BUT!!!!! I do NOT know this to be a fact, and or if it will work!!!!
So like I said, it would be a LOT better if you email and ask Denon, as they said that the Behringer was one that indeed would work.

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=240-398

Originally posted by JasonColeman
How many owners of the 3805 have had problems (other than familiarity) with their remotes?


J.

My remote does not work properly. It keeps sending out commands for my display brightness even if I press a different button. Also, if I set it down on a hard surface the jolt make the remote send out false signals making changes to my 3805.

Neo

NeoSNJ

I assume the remote is a LED type not wireless!
cheers laurie

My remote works fine, but there is a "rattle" in it. So I will be returning it. Other then that all is well, and I really like the receiver.

Originally posted by NeoSNJ

I discovered that I could use my Radio Shack sound level meter as a calibration microphone ! See the pictures in the post following this one. I set my Radio Shack meter to the 80 scale, C weighting, and fast response mode. Connected an audio coax from it to the V. AUX L jack on the front panel of the 3805 and in the setup menu of the 3805 I selected V. AUX instead of MIC. During the auto EQ setup it takes the signal being fed into it from that input instead of the microphone jack !! And it worked. It successfully determined the speaker configuration/distance/ and EQ settings. (Well I guess one could say that the EQ settings are hard to tell if they are really correct or not but they sound pretty good once applied). So there you have it. I'll post more as I play more with it.

NeoSNJ,

I have a Radio Shack SLM (digital) and tried the same thing. WOW! It really increased the quality of the sound quite bit. I set the "ROOM EQ" on "FLAT" and it really gives it a nice punch. All channels have a consistent tone and the surround effect is cleaner. The Delay Measurements were pretty darn accurate as well. I, like you, am not sure of the "correct" setting for the EQ area, but it sure sounds better to me. Pretty neat trick.

Cabber... sounds like you had good luck with the SLM also. I'll have to try the 'flat' setting and see how that sounds.

I still have a Denon mic on order so whenever that comes in it will be interesting to see how it compares. Some folks have said that the radio shack SLM does not have a flat enough response to be accurate for EQ measurements. But for now they appear to work fairly well.

I just wish my remote would work correctly. Darn thing really is a let down.

Neo

The brick of a remote that came with my 3805 just sits on the shelf. I've been using my harnony 659 which I had programmed for the old 3803. Didn't even have to change any of programming. Small lighter and easier to use.

azarby

Bummer on the remote. Mine seems to be working fine....for now. Thanks for the headsup on the SLM trick. I have the mic on order as well so we will see the difference when it arrives. Quick question. I was lsitening to DIrect TV music (Channel 824) via the optical input on the Denon today and turned it up as loud as it would go 8db I believe. The sound wasn't overly loud and I was curious if you have cranked out those Klispch Speakers yet to see how far they can be pushed. I have the same speakers and wasn't impressed with the output. I thought it would be much louder than it was.

Just as a side note, the DVD Audio and Regular CDs are a bit louder, but not as loud as the Yamaha I used to have. Same wattage.

I'll let you know cabber... Will try to give that a try later tonight.

Neo

Cabber-

Which Yamaha did you used to have? I've heard that apples-to-apples, Denon is usually less conservative with their receiver power estimates which would lead me to believe that their 120 wpc might out-do Yamaha's 120 wpc. As far as the Yamaha 1400 or 2400, you're preaching to the converted...the 2400 was my first choice (and may still be). I have found myself with the need for 3 component inputs, which led me to the interest in the 3805. I definitely need a receiver with some meat on its bones that can drive Paradigm Studio 100's until my continuously vapid A/V budget recovers from whichever receiver I end up getting and supplement the setup with a front-end amp.

J.

Originally posted by cabber
Bummer on the remote. Mine seems to be working fine....for now. Thanks for the headsup on the SLM trick. I have the mic on order as well so we will see the difference when it arrives. Quick question. I was lsitening to DIrect TV music (Channel 824) via the optical input on the Denon today and turned it up as loud as it would go 8db I believe. The sound wasn't overly loud and I was curious if you have cranked out those Klispch Speakers yet to see how far they can be pushed. I have the same speakers and wasn't impressed with the output. I thought it would be much louder than it was.

Just as a side note, the DVD Audio and Regular CDs are a bit louder, but not as loud as the Yamaha I used to have. Same wattage.
You may in fact be dealing with an input/sensitivity issue rather than a power issue.

Originally posted by NeoSNJ
I'll let you know cabber... Will try to give that a try later tonight.

Neo

Thanks

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JasonColeman
Cabber-

Which Yamaha did you used to have? I've heard that apples-to-apples, Denon is usually less conservative with their receiver power estimates which would lead me to believe that their 120 wpc might out-do Yamaha's 120 wpc. As far as the Yamaha 1400 or 2400, you're preaching to the converted...the 2400 was my first choice (and may still be). I have found myself with the need for 3 component inputs, which led me to the interest in the 3805. I definitely need a receiver with some meat on its bones that can drive Paradigm Studio 100's until my continuously vapid A/V budget recovers from whichever receiver I end up getting and supplement the setup with a front-end amp.

J. [/QUOTE

I had the 2400 for about a month. I really liked it is alot, but thought the Denon (with my Denon 5900 DVD) would be a better fit. The "Denon iLink" is pretty slick, but having to use analog multi channel inputs for SACD really defeats the purpose. If I didn't have to do that I would be using two wires into the receiver. Ilink for all SACD, DVDA/V , CD and the Optical from my Direct TV receiver. As you can tell, I only use the receiver for Audio no video passing. I'm still trying to figure out if this is the one for me. That Yammy is pretty sweet.

Originally posted by kwkarth
You may in fact be dealing with an input/sensitivity issue rather than a power issue.

Could you elaborate a bit on that? I'm very interested in your thoughts. Thanks.

Just a quick update. I sat down to listen to some DirectTV music and started with the volume at the bottom (-80db). The room is completely silent and I have no hearing issues. With the remote in hand I couldn't hear the music from -80db to -60db. At -60db the music started in very softly and stayed the same up to -50db. From -50db on up it gradually gets louder, but still is not putting out the power I would expect. I sit in a room that is 25 ft long and 15 ft wide. Basically a media room. I'm running 7.1 set up and one would think that with the volume all the way up, you couldn't hear yourself talk. No problem here. DO you think it may have something to do with the DirectTV feed because DVD A does get louder.

Originally posted by cabber
Could you elaborate a bit on that? I'm very interested in your thoughts. Thanks.
My thoughts:
From your description it seems like the signal that you're feeding the Denon with is not strong enough to drive it to it's full output capability.
I have no experience with the Yammy's so I can't help with a comparison there.

I replaced a Pioneer AV receiver and the 3805 seems to have substantially more power than the Pioneer I'm replacing and although it's dead quiet when turned down, it does not seem to be as sensitive as the Pioneer.

One thing to consider is the fact that the volume is calibrated differently on the Denon than anything I'm at least used to. On all other receivers I've ever had, max attenuation was somewhere between -60 and -80db as far as indicated volume, and max volume was 0db. On the 3805, presumably because of it's greater dynamic range, it's calibrated from -80db on the bottom end to +18db at the loudest. It seems (feels) strange to be running the volume up to an indicated 0db for reference level listening. I actually find myself listening at an average indicated level of around -12db.

With appropriate source material, that's pretty loud here. My power requirements are hard to judge because I'm running Boston 9000 MkII satellites with dual powered subs, so the demand on the receiver's amp is not nearly as great as it would be if I were driving full range speakers.

I have noticed that the output from my HD Cable receiver is generally much lower on SD digital and HD channels, almost as if the broadcasters are using a different reference level. Even with the reduced loudness from those channels I still can't turn the receiver up past about a +4 to +6db indicated. At that point, things are painfully loud and the walls and floors are literally shaking to the point where you can feel things quite strongly in the seat of your pants. At that volume level, the sound is still crystal clear with no sense of strain or stridency.

As I become more familiar with the receiver, I may discover sensitivity calibration for the various inputs, I dunno, but I will post if I find something like that. I can tell you that the output levels on my HD cable receiver are adjustable, both for analog and digital outs, as well as variable levels of compression being able to be applied as well.

Hope this is helps. Best of luck in finding the right rig for your system.

Cheers.

My thoughts:
From your description it seems like the signal that you're feeding the Denon with is not strong enough to drive it to it's full output capability.
I have no experience with the Yammy's so I can't help with a comparison there.
Cabber,

I agree with Kwkarth.

I don´t know what's the 3805's input sensitivity, but my 3803 has a 200mV figure for analog inputs. I don't recall the figure for digital sources.

All sources varies in their voltage output, from some 100 mV to more than 2 volts in some cases (that's why the receiver has a potentiometer inside to control volume by means of signal attenuation). So, the stronger the signal to the receivers inputs, the louder it will go.

If the source line level signal is smaller than 200 mV, the volume you will obtain will be low regardless of how much you cranck the volume knob up.

I hope this helps.

Good luck!

So do all of the current 3805 owners have their mics on order? Is there a time frame when they will be available? How many have tried alternate routes like other manufacturer's mics? Does anybody have the recommended Denon mic?

Bottom line...How's the 3805 with music, especially 2-channel? At this point, anything is going to be a step in the right direction, but most of my use is simply listening to music (and...GASP...I'm not always sitting down in the sweet spot!). Did I say that out loud? Maybe the 3805 isn't the route I should go. I really need a robust receiver that is relatively future proof for the time being (maybe "relatively" and "time being" are redundant). I love the auto-eq setup, at least on paper, since I've got quite the "sonically challenged" listening environment. I plan on supplementing any new receiver with a decent 2 or 3 channel amp for the front end to feed my bloodthirsty Studio 100's. Again, I was initially leaning towards the Yamaha 2400 until the 3805 reared it's head and caught my attention.

I'd still love to hear from the 3805 owners out there.

J.

Why does Denon use the unsual volume settings??

I've noticed Direct TV music being softer even on my TV speakers.

Definitely don't use it to judge your reciever's power!

Dreamaster

Bottom line...How's the 3805 with music, especially 2-channel?
Although I've not finished setting up the 3805, I would say it is a very musical receiver. I wouldn't be afraid to drive my Maggies with it.

My expectation is that the Denon mic will show up sometime in the first week of April, which is the promised date I originally was given by my dealer for the 3805 itself.

I'm new to Denon products so I'm not sure if this is a normal thing or not. When I power up my 3805 its makes a humming noise when cut on. It has never done this until recently. Does this sound normal, its almost like its storing power and when its powered up it releases the left over energy and/or sounds like something rattleing in the power supply. Could really use your help asap so I can return it today while they have them in stock if need be.

Originally posted by RGrim
I'm new to Denon products so I'm not sure if this is a normal thing or not. When I power up my 3805 its makes a humming noise when cut on. It has never done this until recently. Does this sound normal, its almost like its storing power and when its powered up it releases the left over energy and/or sounds like something rattleing in the power supply. Could really use your help asap so I can return it today while they have them in stock if need be.
I had not noticed anything like that with mine, so I just went into the family room, put my ear right next to the top of the unit and turned it on. (It had been off (standby) all night) Total silence except for the clicking of the relays as it went through its power up sequence. No hums, no buzzes.

Are you sure that your power is normal? Conceivably, it might make that noise of your power line voltage was low, but more likely, it is a defect like a delaminated power transformer or a leaky power supply cap that puts strain on the PS as it powers up. Check your power to see that it is 115-120v at the wall and that the wall socket itself and wiring feeding the wall socket, in good shape. Probe the AC socket on the back of the receiver as it powers up to see if the power sags below 110v as the Denon powers up. If so, I would check your house wiring before I worried about the receiver.

Are you sure it's not something else humming like a power conditioner you've plugged the amp into? If all is normal with your power, I would encourage you to exchange your 3805 for another. My $0.02.
Best of luck! Keep us informed.

Originally posted by dirk1843
Why does Denon use the unusual volume settings??
I'm guessing that it's because of the great dynamic range of the receiver. As I get used to it, I like the idea, assuming that at an indicated 0db, I'm listening at some sort of reference level, although that's way too loud for me most of the time and with most sources.

FWIW, I did some more checking and noticed with the lower SD, non digital cable channels, I have the volume set to around -30db for comfortable listening levels. When listening to HD Cable sources, I have it set to around -12db for the same loudness level.

Just got off the phone with Tweeters, they are exchanging it with a new 3805. Said the new unit will be in Tuesday. Thanks for all your help.

I can't wait for mine, i hope i don't get the problem you have RGrim.

I hope I am not breaking any forum rules, but Crutchfields has the denon microphone in stock now! I just got a 3805 last week and so far I am very happy with it. I am very curious to see how the auto setup and eq'ing work!! I am a bit torn between the 3805 and the Rotel 1056. I have a separate stereo system with rotel preamp and cd player and love that gear. I was originally going to get the pioneer elite 53tx but they were out of stock at Magnolia so I took the 3805. Since I am using all different speakers and my surrounds are not set up perfectly I am thinking that the auto eq will be a big benefit (also much better financing at magnolia versus the Rotel dealer). I have 30days to return the Denon should I end up not liking it. So far though, I am rather amazed! I listened to the Buena vista social club cd, using spdif out into the amp and the sound was really good. Very articulate, and a nice soundstage. I am going to do some more critical listening this weekend and post up some more subjective comentary!

NXplasma, congrats on getting your receiver. Hope your happy. I'll check in with this thread when i get mine.

Originally posted by NXPlasmid
I hope I am not breaking any forum rules, but Crutchfields has the denon microphone in stock now! I just got a 3805 last week and so far I am very happy with it. I am very curious to see how the auto setup and eq'ing work!! I am a bit torn between the 3805 and the Rotel 1056. I have a separate stereo system with rotel preamp and cd player and love that gear. I was originally going to get the pioneer elite 53tx but they were out of stock at Magnolia so I took the 3805. Since I am using all different speakers and my surrounds are not set up perfectly I am thinking that the auto eq will be a big benefit (also much better financing at magnolia versus the Rotel dealer). I have 30days to return the Denon should I end up not liking it. So far though, I am rather amazed! I listened to the Buena vista social club cd, using spdif out into the amp and the sound was really good. Very articulate, and a nice soundstage. I am going to do some more critical listening this weekend and post up some more subjective comentary!
Magnolia is a great store and where I bought my 3805. I've been a Magnolia customer for many years and they have ALWAYS come through with exemplary customer service as well as fairly competitive prices. I too, am pretty pleased so far with the 3805 and am looking forward to getting the Denon microphone.

To the owners of 3805s:

When/if you get your mics, please post your auto-eq results and opinions. I'd especially like to hear from former owners of Yamaha RX-V1400/2400s since that is the only other A/V receiver with parametric eq built-in on the market currently (IIRC, Pioneer MCACC is NOT parametric but graphic). I'm also curious how they'll compare since, on paper, the Yamaha should be better since it is 10 band and the Denon is 8 band. However, we all know there are bugs in first-year features for any component (as we're most obviously seeing with the 3805 remote).

Unless the speaker is trash, 4 bands of true parametric EQ should be enough for most venues.

Well, I'n not a true believer in the room eq feature, but I agree with Kwkarth. 4 bands would suffice.

Somebody more experienced may go deeper into this subject.

The MIC IS IN.

I'll post back some features after setting it up.

give us some photos cabber :) everyday i dream about this receiver.. almost there

im looking to get the 3805 what is the cheapest i could get it for ?

Can't post prices on the forum, but I would suggest that you contact the folks that run this forum as they happen to be Denon dealers, and they are known for having very competitive prices.... :D

-Dan

I think it's safe to say that most people seem to be getting their 3805's for about 15-18% off list. It MSRPs at $1199 so that puts it right around $1000. That obviously doesn't include the mic.

J.

So I got the mic and did the auto-calibration and I think it really smoothed out the soundstage significantly, however, I didn't do any back-to-back listening. I have things set up with lfe+mains low end and after the calibration things had quite a bit of bottom end. in the next couple days or so I may try resetting everything, listening and doing the auto-cal to get a better idea of what it is doing. all in all though, seemed to do a good job. Also, the mic is quite pleasingly hefty and solid so I feel a teensy bit less annoyed it costs $65...

I ditto what NXPlasmid just stated. I was really pleased with the way the mic turned out. LFE seemed a little hot for my taste so I went back to the SPL meter and adjusted it again but overall, very pleased after that. As far as build quality of the mic, pretty shocked when I felt how heavy this little thing was. Overall, will do more fine tuning this weekend to get everything to my liking.

It's good to hear that the build quality of the mics is up to snuff. I guess that'll make it easier parting with $65.

For those of you that have replaced your remotes, have the new ones worked okay?

Also, I'm curious how many people either upgraded (lateral or otherwise) from the Yamaha 1400/2400 or how many people considered those models before picking up the Denon. The reason I'm asking is because I've got 2 local dealers that are both willing to work with me on their prices. I can get the Yamaha for $850 until the end of this week, or get the Denon for $1000 (no time frame). I was initially leaning toward the Yamaha, but many of the features of the Denon have me thinking twice.

I still haven't seen the 3805 yet...they're coming in tomorrow or Friday!

Thanks for the feedback!

J.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
It's good to hear that the build quality of the mics is up to snuff. I guess that'll make it easier parting with $65.

For those of you that have replaced your remotes, have the new ones worked okay?

Also, I'm curious how many people either upgraded (lateral or otherwise) from the Yamaha 1400/2400 or how many people considered those models before picking up the Denon. The reason I'm asking is because I've got 2 local dealers that are both willing to work with me on their prices. I can get the Yamaha for $850 until the end of this week, or get the Denon for $1000 (no time frame). I was initially leaning toward the Yamaha, but many of the features of the Denon have me thinking twice.

I still haven't seen the 3805 yet...they're coming in tomorrow or Friday!

Thanks for the feedback!

J.
Hi Jason,
I considered the 2400, but chose the Denon for the quality of the amps, preamp, superior video switching bandwidth, the remote, and 3 component inputs vs. 2. Make no mistake, the 2400 is a fine piece, but for me, the 3805 was worth the difference.

I was one who had an initially defective remote. The dealer swapped mine out immediately and the replacement works fine. About the remote itself, I'm quite pleased with its functionality, but do find myself wishing for a little more brightness of illumination behind the functions. I only run into this problem when I'm reading the manual with a bright light over my shoulder, and look at the remote simultaneously. The bright reading light washes out the illumination of the remote. In normal lighting, the remote is fine.
Cheers!

Kwkarth-

Thanks for the reply. I've been leaning towards the Denon for the same reasons/features that you listed. Personally, I think those differences make up for the $150 price difference.

I'm glad to hear that you're still so pleased with yours. I'll let you know what I decide to do.

J.

By the way, I agree with your reply on the other 3805 thread about customer service. Shame on them.

Originally posted by kwkarth
Hi Jason,
I considered the 2400, but chose the Denon for the quality of the amps, preamp, superior video switching bandwidth, the remote, and 3 component inputs vs. 2. Make no mistake, the 2400 is a fine piece, but for me, the 3805 was worth the difference.

I was one who had an initially defective remote. The dealer swapped mine out immediately and the replacement works fine. About the remote itself, I'm quite pleased with its functionality, but do find myself wishing for a little more brightness of illumination behind the functions. I only run into this problem when I'm reading the manual with a bright light over my shoulder, and look at the remote simultaneously. The bright reading light washes out the illumination of the remote. In normal lighting, the remote is fine.
Cheers!

I guess I beg to differ...It's a bit ironic you chose the Denon for it's supposed build quality when the Denon models seem to have more build quality issues than the Yamahas have had. I know all we have is anecdotal reports so far but if Denon is having problems building a simple remote, including the Denon you bought for that matter, what other issues are there in that more complex big black box?

Quality of the amps? I haven't seen anything to suggest Denon's amps are better than the Yamahas amps. Please relay some facts/figures because I think the amps in any A/V receiver tend to be overrated. The only thing I've found to be of value is a THX certification, because then I know the amps had to pass a high standard of quality and high output to get the THX stamp of approval on it.

Preamp? The Denon may have Burr-Brown DACs, but it takes more than a set of Burr-Brown DACs to make good sound. All I know is that the DACs in the Yamaha were highly commended in the Audioholics review (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/YamahaRXV-2400Receiver-p1.html).
The DAC section in the RX-V2400 was top notch. In fact, switching back and forth between using my bedroom SACD changer DAC's for CD playback vs the internal DAC's in the RX-V2400, I preferred the latter. When the RX-V2400 served as the DAC, it sounded more open, and detailed in the high frequencies. The amp section proved to be quite dynamic, more so then my Harman Kardon integrated amplifier that currently comprises my bedroom system. I felt that RX-V2400 again had a more open and punchy presence than my integrated amp, but was a bit more analytical sounding. I definitely felt that this was the best sounding sub $1000 receiver I have yet to hear Yamaha produce.

Also, the Denon doesn't have all the really cool DSP settings the Yamahas have with CinemaDSP. I find myself using the "Adventure" and "Spectacle" settings more and more all the time.

Video switching bandwidth? Denon's got the Yamaha there. Denon states 100Mhz; Yamaha states 60Mhz. My understanding is that you only need 40Mhz for HD signals; and I've also come across a rumor that the Denon rating of 100Mhz is overinflated. To be determined I guess...

Remote? Well, as long as you don't get a defective one I guess. ;)

Component inputs? Definite advantage to the Denon...if you need 3 inputs instead of 2. Personally, I think all the receivers of this quality should have started incorporating HDMI.

But there are so many other features to compare and take into consideration as well such as THX processing/certification, inclusion of microphone, 10-band vs. 8-band parametric equalizer, audio delay for adjusting lip synch (Denon may have this I'm not sure), etc, and in the end it does comes down to your personal tastes and which you find sounds better in your room, with your speakers. I know that's such a cliched disclaimer around here, but it's true. I just would be careful about labelling this specific Denon component a better built component than the Yamaha RX-V2400/1400 as that is truly a mixed bag. Build quality of both brands have their pluses and minuses. I know I will be very interested to see the Audioholics review of the 3805 when that finally comes out.

Originally posted by PontifexMaximus
I know all we have is anecdotal reports so far but if Denon is having problems building a simple remote, including the Denon you bought for that matter, what other issues are there in that more complex big black box?

actually i'd say they were trying to build a pretty complex remote. it 'may' have served them better to build a more simple solution. the remote is also the piece that's going to take the most abuse...it's going to get mashed, dropped, bumped around...etc.


I know I will be very interested to see the Audioholics review of the 3805 when that finally comes out.

i'm also looking forward to their write up.

What kind of DSPs does the Denon have? Do they compare with those on the Yamaha?

Originally posted by PontifexMaximus
I guess I beg to differ...It's a bit ironic you chose the Denon for it's supposed build quality when the Denon models seem to have more build quality issues than the Yamahas have had. I know all we have is anecdotal reports so far but if Denon is having problems building a simple remote, including the Denon you bought for that matter, what other issues are there in that more complex big black box?
Quality of the amps? I haven't seen anything to suggest Denon's amps are better than the Yamahas amps. Please relay some facts/figures because I think the amps in any A/V receiver tend to be overrated. The only thing I've found to be of value is a THX certification, because then I know the amps had to pass a high standard of quality and high output to get the THX stamp of approval on it.
Preamp? The Denon may have Burr-Brown DACs, but it takes more than a set of Burr-Brown DACs to make good sound. All I know is that the DACs in the Yamaha were highly commended in the Audioholics review (http://www.audioholics.com/productreviews/avhardware/YamahaRXV-2400Receiver-p1.html).
[B]
Also, the Denon doesn't have all the really cool DSP settings the Yamahas have with CinemaDSP. I find myself using the "Adventure" and "Spectacle" settings more and more all the time.
Video switching bandwidth? Denon's got the Yamaha there. Denon states 100Mhz; Yamaha states 60Mhz. My understanding is that you only need 40Mhz for HD signals; and I've also come across a rumor that the Denon rating of 100Mhz is overinflated. To be determined I guess...
Remote? Well, as long as you don't get a defective one I guess. ;)
Component inputs? Definite advantage to the Denon...if you need 3 inputs instead of 2.
Personally, I think all the receivers of this quality should have started incorporating HDMI.
But there are so many other features to compare and take into consideration as well such as THX processing/certification, inclusion of microphone, 10-band vs. 8-band parametric equalizer, audio delay for adjusting lip synch (Denon may have this I'm not sure), etc, and in the end it does comes down to your personal tastes and which you find sounds better in your room, with your speakers. I know that's such a cliched disclaimer around here, but it's true. I just would be careful about labelling this specific Denon component a better built component than the Yamaha RX-V2400/1400 as that is truly a mixed bag. Build quality of both brands have their pluses and minuses. I know I will be very interested to see the Audioholics review of the 3805 when that finally comes out.

Hey man, you can differ all you want! That's cool! If we all thought alike, it would be a dull world, wouldn't it? Please allow me to pontificate a bit…Scratch that, that’s your department. I’ll just share with you more of my thought process when I made that earlier post.

Here’s what I said:
I considered the 2400, but chose the Denon for the quality of the amps, preamp, superior video switching bandwidth, the remote, and 3 component inputs vs. 2. Make no mistake, the 2400 is a fine piece, but for me, the 3805 was worth the difference.

I was one who had an initially defective remote. The dealer swapped mine out immediately and the replacement works fine. About the remote itself, I'm quite pleased with its functionality, but do find myself wishing for a little more brightness of illumination behind the functions. I only run into this problem when I'm reading the manual with a bright light over my shoulder, and look at the remote simultaneously. The bright reading light washes out the illumination of the remote. In normal lighting, the remote is fine.

It is many individual’s and reviewer’s opinions that Denon amps in general, sound better than Yamaha’s. That’s my opinion too, and I’m entitled to it, just as you are to yours. Denon, again is acknowledged by many to employ some of the finest Preamp topology and quality DSP & DAC’s in the industry. Analog Devices HammerHead SHARC 32 bit floating point DSP processors 16 (count ‘em) Burr-Brown PCM-1791 24 bit, 192 kHz high resolution DACs on all eight channels, in differential configuration 24 bit, 192 kHz Digital Interface Receiver, 24 bit, 192 kHz A/D conversion (Burr-Brown PCM-1804) on all Stereo analog inputs. To make a long story short, I spent time pouring over the specs of these two receivers, and you can too, if you’re interested in why I decided as I did. FWIW, the video bandwidth is specified to 100MHz -3db. That’s not fluff, it’s qualified. Does today’s HDTV need that bandwidth? No. Do I want as much “future prooffness” as possible? Of course I do. If you’ll read what I posted earlier, you’ll see that I said the 2400 is a fine piece. I mean that, but for me, my $$ went to the 3805. My bux, my choice. You’re entitled to yours.

Regarding the remote… I’ll bet you that the remotes for both receivers are subbed out to ODM’s. No big deal.

Which receiver is better? I agree with you, it’s a mixed bag. That’s what I said in the first place. My feet voted differently than yours. No big deal. That way competition stays healthy.:D

Good come back Pontifexmaximus.

Nowhere, to date have I seen any technical reviews comparing the Denon 3805 to the Yamaha 2400 in any way, much less, that one was better than the other in any respect. I can give you three good reason why I choose the 2400 over the 3805: (1) Price (2) Yamaha's known for there build quality I.E. the review at Audioholic's shows the 2400 with the cover off and thier is a thread here on AVS Forum that shows the cover off a 3805 from Europe, the 3805 circuit board is chipped on the edge and the transformer has scratches all over it, (3) The most important "THE SOUND " remember this is only " MY " opinion Bob

Hey!
Who hijacked this thread? When did it turn into a 3805 bashing thread?
Get a life people!

Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

I was not my intention to, as you put it, to bash the 3805. Like you said earlier, the 2400 and the 3805 are both very good receivers.

Bob

Originally posted by kwkarth
Who hijacked this thread? When did it turn into a 3805 bashing thread?
Get a life people!
No worse than you, when you decided to start bashing a Sunfire product in the other thread!

Originally posted by NXPlasmid
So I got the mic and did the auto-calibration and I think it really smoothed out the soundstage significantly, however, I didn't do any back-to-back listening. I have things set up with lfe+mains low end and after the calibration things had quite a bit of bottom end. in the next couple days or so I may try resetting everything, listening and doing the auto-cal to get a better idea of what it is doing. all in all though, seemed to do a good job. Also, the mic is quite pleasingly hefty and solid so I feel a teensy bit less annoyed it costs $65...

a question for the denon owners.... doesn't the receiver and/or the remote allow you to bypass all the eq with a "direct" button?

it is a great feature on my pioneer 55txi.... i can go back and forth from the equalized signal to a direct bypass of the eq on my remote..... it was the first thing i tried after running the eq program to see what had changed or not changed....

just wondering.....

Originally posted by Johnla
No worse than you, when you decided to start bashing a Sunfire product in the other thread!

So Johnla,
I apologized to you personally in the other thread where the offense occurred (which was not a Sunfire thread). Apparently that's not good enough for you. What is? Do you need to tear up this thread now in order to feel better? I am sorry.

Originally posted by tubeguy44
a question for the denon owners.... doesn't the receiver and/or the remote allow you to bypass all the eq with a "direct" button?

it is a great feature on my pioneer 55txi.... i can go back and forth from the equalized signal to a direct bypass of the eq on my remote..... it was the first thing i tried after running the eq program to see what had changed or not changed....

just wondering.....

Yes, in fact you can cycle between several EQ settings, one after the other with the 3805 in order to directly compare the sound quality.

Originally posted by bobdons1
Sorry if I hurt your feelings.

I was not my intention to, as you put it, to bash the 3805. Like you said earlier, the 2400 and the 3805 are both very good receivers.

Bob

Not a problem Bob. No offense taken. I just feel we should try to stay somewhat on topic of the thread.
Cheers,

So I saw the 3805 at my local dealer today listed at $1050. A nice price considering they usually start at msrp and you have to talk them down.

Nothing earth shattering here, but I thought the remote was sort of gimicky. I suppose with use I could get used to it as with any remote. The buttons at the bottom I found particularly hard to use while holding the remote in one hand. It also felt like if you dropped it, you'd be sorry. Regardless, I'll use my mx-500 and probably pick up a $3805 after I find out how much I owe in taxes. The 3 component ins is the dealbreaker feature for me.

Originally posted by turt
but I thought the remote was sort of gimicky. I suppose with use I could get used to it as with any remote. The buttons at the bottom I found particularly hard to use while holding the remote in one hand.

it's pretty sad when a remote for a ~$1,000 receiver isn't designed well....

some companies just don't go the extra mile in making the product user friendly....

Pontiflex,
(edit) I think it's better to post what you like about yamaha and your _actual_ experiences with Denon rather than opinions based on opinions, either way, lively discussion is good, hence I edited my previous response, sorry if it was overly kurt...

So, I did a very small amount of tweaking of my sub tonight(set the xover to 80 hz to match the denon settings) and watched the superbit DTS track of the Fifth Element and must say that although I remain skeptical (mostly because of my afore mentioned Rotel fetish), my post "auto-eq" with the Denon mic experience is quite nice. dropping the xover freq really mitigated the bass over emphasis. First impressions: the auto-eq really did a great job since my all my speakers are different manufacturers and my surround placement is unsymmetrical and very poor. Plasmid

Originally posted by NXPlasmid
Pontiflex,
Thanks for the Denon bashing. Very useful information for someone, I suppose. I Don't think it is against the forum rules to start your own thread "Denon sucks and Yamaha is great", why don't you. Thanks.

If posting some questions to get more clarification, and posting some opinions about Yamaha and Denon is considered Denon bashing....then...well, welcome to AVS. That's what we're all about here. Posting opinions and experiences and comparing facts. Maybe arguing over our opinions a time or two. I said my piece, I have nothing more to say, and I appreciated KWKarth's response to my post as to why he chose Denon. That was a great response. 'Nuff said.

Wow...quite the tangent!

I'm glad to hear that the auto-eq seems to be working well. As I've posted, my room is a sonic trainwreck...1.5 story vaulted ceiling, wall of windows, open on 3 sides, etc. I'm hoping that the auto-eq helps to even things out. I hope to see the 3805 this afternoon (for the first time), and I'll probably end up picking it up.

I really appreciate everybody's feedback so far. This has turned out to be a pretty successful thread. Keep the info coming!

Thanks!

J.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
I hope to see the 3805 this afternoon (for the first time), and I'll probably end up picking it up.

Be sure to post your impressions, whatever you decide to do.

Warning: OT question coming...
J, what did you end up deciding about the CC570?

P.M.- Check your pm.

I'll definitely post what I find about the 3805. Needless to say, I'm very eager to finally see it. I'm just hoping that I get the call from my dealer soon!

J.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Wow...quite the tangent!

I'm glad to hear that the auto-eq seems to be working well. As I've posted, my room is a sonic trainwreck...1.5 story vaulted ceiling, wall of windows, open on 3 sides, etc. I'm hoping that the auto-eq helps to even things out. I hope to see the 3805 this afternoon (for the first time), and I'll probably end up picking it up.

I really appreciate everybody's feedback so far. This has turned out to be a pretty successful thread. Keep the info coming!

Thanks!

J.
Hi Jason,
My room, dimentionally, seems pretty similar to yours, but acoustically, it sounds pretty good for the same reasons. Open, vaulted beam ceilings, overhead balcony, open on 2.5 walls, mostly glass and some wood against one wall. Because of the lack of parallel walls, the room itself does not contribute any overt standing waves. While it makes speaker placement a challenge, sonically, it's a good thing! Although I don't have the Denon mic yet, the auto-EQ seems to work pretty well with the TRS sound level meter mic. I can't wait to see how it does with a more linear mic like the Denon.

I was just directed to this thread from another thread I started....

I am considering trading in my Yamaha 2400 for the Denon 3805, but I have a couple of questions before I pack the 2400 up:

1. Is there any delay in picking up the digital audio signal from a DVD (like the Harmon/Kardon models do)? I know the 3802 had no delay, but I wanted to make sure that there was no delay in the new model. Its a big pet peeve of mine....

2. How is the sound compared to the Yamaha? Any different from the Denon 3802?
I know that the 3802 definitely had a less bright sound that the Yamaha sound. has this changed at all?

3. I know you have an EQ for all channels on the 3805, but do the bass/treble tone controls affect just the main channels or do the tone controls affect the mains+center?

4. Is there anything that the Yamaha has that the Denon does not? I didn't care for the DSPs on the Yamaha so I won't miss them on the Denon.

Well, I must say I am enjoying the diverse opinions here and the arguments over the Yamaha versus Denon! I've had Yamaha amps for fifteen years, and have the first (what I considered worthy and reasonably priced) consumer digital sound processor, the Yamaha DSP-1 from 1986! And I have just received the Denon 8505 which I purchased because of some of its features which have already been exhaustively commented upon.

I don't have any comments based upon experience with the 8505 yet, because I have used its arrival as a basis for tearing my whole theater down, rewiring everything with 12 gage speaker wire on all the channels and throwing out some components and purchasing other units (including the SOS sub-woofer one peak equalizer).

When some of you have your 8505 operating and auto equalized, I'd be very interested in what your Radio Shack audio meter registers the before and after frequency responses at the sweet spot. I intend to take such measurements, plus performing before and after frequency response measurements at several non sweet spot seating locations, just to see what the auto equalization throws further out of kilter around the viewing area!

Two more points. First, I picked up the 8505 remote while watching a final movie in my totally dark theater. Everyone's comments about its dimness under bright lighting conditions are certainly appropriate. But it really shines in my theater - I mean that literally, I can read the non back lit remotes by it! Second, if anyone bashes ANYTHING I've said here, I solemnly promise not to respond!:D

sonyuser....

i assume you mean the 3805..... rather than the 8505....

Where do I find a Denon 8505 !

:)

Hey...play nice!

J.

hot sexy amp

Originally posted by Young C
hot sexy amp

Apparently somebody stopped for some serious Happy Hour on their way home to post. Not quite sure what to make of this.

J.

Kwkarth

Read your post, feel the same way, cool.

Bob

If anyone has any opinions on my questions above, please let me know. If I consider the 3805 I need to get it in the next few days. The main thing I need to know before the trade up is:
How is the sound compared to the yamaha 2400 (any less bright)?
I had the 3802, but the center channel dialog sounded dull/lifeless? Has this changed in the 3805????

hahaha..

I received my 3805 yesterday and its slick looking. Therfor i called it a hot sexy amp.

Happy hour, read name.. i'm too young to go drinking.

Too young to go drink, yet you can afford a 3805? Must be nice! I couldn't even afford to buy music back then.

Needless to say, I am quite jealous that you already have yours. Let us know how it is once you get it set up.

Congrats!

J.

Did anyone notice the dual (joint) banana plug does not fit on denon 3805? Those + and - speaker connections are little bit far to fit the plug? That plug fits perfectly on all speakers that I have and on my old yamaha receiver.

Also about the battery life on the remote control; the battery came with the receiver died within two days and I replaced with Duracell which died yesterday after around two weeks of use (manual says battery life for at least one year). I have now replaced with 4 brand new Duracell and will see how long it last. Do you guys think my remote is defective?

Receiver is fine and I like it.

OK, here goes. Hope someone can help out here. I have a "straight" 5700 that has been good to me for years. Is it worth it to replace the 5700 with the 3805 considering the years and the up-grades? Is the 5700 obsolete yet? Thanks. Be gentle!

DLShres,
It sounds like you have a bad remote... I would return it for a replacement. My 3085 remote is working fine and I have had not problems with it, however, it does seem to be a potential problem. I think someone mentioned that it is very likely that it wasn't built by Denon, that would be my guess as well. Probably whatever company manufactures it is having some consistency problems which will almost certainly be sorted out very quickly as Denon begins to receive returns. (please note, this is only my opinion and has no real basis in fact).

Oops! DLShres, I just reread your post, I thought you had said the duracells had run out too. i wouldn't worry too much about the batteries that came with the reciever, they are typically cheap and might be very old. If the duracells last less than 6 months then I would suspect a problem. Sound to me like you got the low end of the crappy batteries typically supplied by manufacturers with electronic equipment.

Originally posted by DLShres
Did anyone notice the dual (joint) banana plug does not fit on denon 3805? Those + and - speaker connections are little bit far to fit the plug? That plug fits perfectly on all speakers that I have and on my old yamaha receiver.

Also about the battery life on the remote control; the battery came with the receiver died within two days and I replaced with Duracell which died yesterday after around two weeks of use (manual says battery life for at least one year). I have now replaced with 4 brand new Duracell and will see how long it last. Do you guys think my remote is defective?

Receiver is fine and I like it.

I too, have found that my remote "eats" batteries. I'm on my third set of alkalines. I hope they have a recall of the remotes. I'm not happy about that. I love the receiver itself.

i'm curious if the remote backlight has different 'timing' settings. not that it should eat batteries that quickly, but the backlight being on longer will definitely wear them down more quickly.

I think something's wrong with those remotes. Even if you use the backlight a lot, the batteries should last months!

oh yeah...i agree. i am curious if the backlight timing is able to be set.

thearthurclone:

Yes, there is a program in the remote to control how long it will be lit each time after use!

Yes. The backlight timing can be programmed in my 3803's remote to last up to 20 seconds (5 is the default value).

But IMO if you need 20 seconds to find and hit the button you need (or the touschscreen in the 3805), you'd better turn the lights on :D

I use that remote for about an hour or two a day. I set it for 10 sec delay and medium lit (brightness). My only suspect is the battery came with remote must be old or weak and the one that I have replaced with Duracell was also not brand new. Now I have four brand new batteries replaced and will let you all know if it runs out quickly.

Originally posted by racer21
My remote works fine, but there is a "rattle" in it. So I will be returning it. Other then that all is well, and I really like the receiver.

So i will return the one with a rattle that works fine, and pick up one without a rattle that doesn't work fine.

I am selling my rx-v2400 and waiting for the 3805. One of the things i hated about the yammy was the remote, so the new Denon remote was one of the big deals for me, but all this stuff about the new remotes is bumming me out. I hope i don't dislike it when it comes. I will let people know what i think after i get it.

Scott

I´m ordering a 3805 this monday from avland in the uk, and the mic is included:). Can´t wait for it to ship to me in Iceland.

Originally posted by Scott Tucker
I am selling my rx-v2400 and waiting for the 3805. One of the things i hated about the yammy was the remote
Interesting....that's been a tried and true remote for Yamaha, ever since the RX-V1. It has been praised for its ease of use and flexibility.

Questions for those with a 7.1 setup who have upgraded from the 3803 to the 3805?

To what degree is the change noticable to you?
Does the difference vary with sources or source material?

Thanks.

Dennis

I just returned home from tweeter and was discussing the pro/cons of 3805 v. 2400. The salesman at tweeter mentioned that the digital inputs on the 3805 are assignable and they are fixed on the 2400. Is this true?

Originally posted by dchayer
I just returned home from tweeter and was discussing the pro/cons of 3805 v. 2400. The salesman at tweeter mentioned that the digital inputs on the 3805 are assignable and they are fixed on the 2400. Is this true?
No. The digital inputs/outputs (coaxial & optical) on the back panel are fully assignable. The one video aux digital optical input on the front panel isn't assignable. Both component video inputs are assignable. All the S-Video, Composite video, and analog audio input/outputs are fixed. Go to the bottom of page 10 in the link below for more info.

http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/RECEIVER/RXV2400_lit.PDF

i think i already know the answer to this question but cant seem to convince myself entirely. anyway, what is more important for processing the digital signal, a dsp or a dac? and would one prefer 2 dsps or say 2 dacs per channel? what i am particularly interested in is for processing dolby digital, dts, circle surround, etc. NOT sound fields and dsp modes and NOT music although i would be curios about sacd or dvd-a processing... anyway i hope someone can reconfirm my thoughts.

Originally posted by PontifexMaximus
Interesting....that's been a tried and true remote for Yamaha, ever since the RX-V1. It has been praised for its ease of use and flexibility.

The remote would probably be fine if i didn't watch films in the dark.

Scott

Originally posted by DLShres
Did anyone notice the dual (joint) banana plug does not fit on denon 3805? Those + and - speaker connections are little bit far to fit the plug? That plug fits perfectly on all speakers that I have and on my old yamaha receiver.


This is an issue for Europe. Apparently the dual banana plug standard is too close to the standard for 220 volt wall electric outlets (and therefore a big safety issue) in many parts of Europe, so you can't sell audio products there that conform to that standard. Since the 3805 is sold worldwide, I'm sure this was the issue when deciding the spacing for these plugs.

Thanks Sevenfeet

Anyway I have used single banana plug. It is not a big deal, just curious.

FYI, Crutchfield has the mic back in stock.

-MP

Could anyone comment on the "video-up conversion that converts composite and/or S-video sources to component video without compromising video quality". I am researching receivers and would like to know more about this feature.
Fred

Originally posted by SherlockH
Could anyone comment on the "video-up conversion that converts composite and/or S-video sources to component video without compromising video quality". I am researching receivers and would like to know more about this feature.
Fred

I'm looking into this. I've noticed some tearing in some of the images I've seen in at least one animated show. I'm not sure if this is an artifact from the VSM processing of my television, or the Denon's upscaling, but I'll find out tonight or tomorrow.

Otherwise the quality seemed nice.

The Denon doesn't really "upscale", just converts the output format. GIGO can be one problem but VCR's converted from composite to component can be another. The manual says that if this problem occurs you need a VCR with time base correction or a separate stand alone unit between the two.

Mort

VSM is evil Sevenfeet. Unless it requires going into the back of the tv with a soldering iron you should disable it.

Just curious...have some of the remote issues been worked out yet? Replacement of batteries, the remote itself, etc.? Also, how's the auto setup with Denon's mic working?

Thanks,

J.

Would the 3805 be able to reliably drive 4 Thiel CS2s? I've been offered a fairly stellar deal on them and an old Pioneer M-65 amp, but the amp is really only a single channel (even though it has 3 speaker outputs). The Thiels would pretty much break my bank for some time, so getting a different amp would be out of the question. The Thiels are 6ohm 40-250 watt speakers. I'm not even sure what I would do for my surrounds and center at that point. I've got all Fluance right now. It's one of those deals you hate to pass up, but if it's going to be a bust on my system I'd rather save the money.

Thanks,
MP

Crutchfield is giving $10.00 off if you use a VISA card. I found this deal at ultimatecoupons.com. Ordered the Denon mic for $10.00 less and added 5.00 to send fedex overnite. Regular shipping is free.

The deal is good to 6/4 I think.

Originally posted by JasonColeman
Bottom line...How's the 3805 with music, especially 2-channel?
J.

I'll weigh in here, as I purchased Denon's 3803 in February and upgraded to the 3805 due to the poor 2-channel audio performance of the 3803. I'm not used to anything enormously esoteric: I have Martin Logan Aerius speakers that were "fed" by a modified Dynaco ST70 (with the Van Alstine Audio board) and an Audible Illusions Modulus 3A preamp. Bass isn't a strong point with the setup but soundstage and the magic midrange made for a combo hard to beat without spending huge amounts of money.

That said, the 3803 completely disappointed me. On 2-channel audio it made my stereo sound like a cheap set of speakers. There wasn't any soundstage, delicacy or even the slightest hint of a live performance going on in front of me. Due to the fixed AC cord, I couldn't use my high-grade IEC-based cords.

The 3805 allows me to use my choice of power cord. I haven't tried the cord they provided, but with my "standard" installed I am extremely impressed with the results this AVR produces. The soundstage doesn't have extreme depth, but my speakers "disappear" again and there is still some depth to the stage... though it may have fewer layers than I've heard before. I've had several neophyte friends listen to the system, and each of them (with completely untrained ears) notes that the sound doesn't come from the speakers, but from the space in front of their listening position. This, of course, applies when they're listening from the sweet spot.

If you're anywhere near Orange County, CA, and would care to hear it, let me know.

Mike

Originally posted by madpoet
Would the 3805 be able to reliably drive 4 Thiel CS2s? ... The Thiels are 6ohm 40-250 watt speakers.

I'm driving a set of Martin Logan Aerius electrostatic hybrid speakers with it quite effectively, and if I recall correctly they spec at either 2 or 4 ohms. Based on that, I can't imagine the 3805 will have any problem with the 6 ohm Thiels.

Mike

Originally posted by msimanyi

If you're anywhere near Orange County, CA, and would care to hear it, let me know.

Mike [/B]

Mike, if I were anywhere near Orange County, CA I wouldn't be able to proudly call myself a Clevelander. Just kidding, of course.

Thanks for posting your impressions of the 3805. As I posted, most of my use is 2-channel listening via Studio 100 v.3's. I think that anything at this point will be an improvement over my older Sony 5.1 "AVR."

J.

Holy Crap! I just posted a minute ago and forgot to mention that my dealer called and my 3805 and mic are in! Yippeee! I'm going this afternoon to pick it up and I hope to get it set up Friday during the day. Needless to say, I'm pretty damn excited! I'll weigh in once I get it up and running.

J.

Originally posted by msimanyi
I'm driving a set of Martin Logan Aerius electrostatic hybrid speakers with it quite effectively, and if I recall correctly they spec at either 2 or 4 ohms. Based on that, I can't imagine the 3805 will have any problem with the 6 ohm Thiels.

Mike

Thanks Mike, I appreciate the feedback.

-MP

For those of you with experience using the auto eq feature, I could use a few tips. What volume did you have the 3805 on when you performed the measurements and what did you set the sub crossover freq at (the manual say max)? I initially performed the measurements with my amp at 0db, the sub volume at halfway, and the crossover freq at 80Hz. The result was a very diminished bass output as compared with my previous system. Tonight I will try increasing the crossover freq to 250 Hz for the test but I assume that it should be reset to 80Hz afterward.

Also, any opinions on the best sounding room eq setting?

Madpoet, just one question regarding your Thiels: AFAIK all Thiels have a 4 Ohm impedance, so you'd better check the 6 Ohm figure.

In any case, I would recommend a separate power amp to drive the Thiels (or Martin Logans) for future upgrading of your systems, particularly if you like loud music.

Good luck!

These are original CS2s. I'm looking at the product brochure, and it says 6 ohms. I'm not sure I can afford them right now anyway, though the guy is offering me a sweet deal on them.

I wouldn't power those Thiels with an A/V receiver. Nominal inpedance is one thing but take a look at the Stereophile measurements. The 2.3's dip down to 2 oms. That is not an easy load and the Denon will not like it very much.
http://www.stereophile.com/images/archivesart/Bdfig01.jpg

Yes, now I remember. Thiels sound great, but in terms of power they're very demanding.

Madpoet, Tom's right. The 3805 can't provide the juice for driving those Thiels comfortably!

Ok, thanks for the representation. One more reason not to snap them up... but oh man they do sound nice :). There's no way I'm affording both the speakers and a new amp right now however.

-MP

Originally posted by min7b5
For those of you with experience using the auto eq feature, I could use a few tips. What volume did you have the 3805 on when you performed the measurements and what did you set the sub crossover freq at (the manual say max)? I initially performed the measurements with my amp at 0db, the sub volume at halfway, and the crossover freq at 80Hz. The result was a very diminished bass output as compared with my previous system.
Also, any opinions on the best sounding room eq setting?

I'm in the same boat... I performed the Autosetup feature on the 3805, using the denon Mic, and I went with a tape measure to see how accurate it is... and sure enough.....the mic calculated the distances down to the inch, literally. The only one that was off was the subwoofer for distance, and I too found that the sub had very diminished bass output. My sub is 8.3 ft away from the sweet spot, but the Denon flagged it as 12.6 ft away. In the manual it states that powered subs usually flag as a fake distance due to the delay in it's own power suppy so I left the incorrect measurement. Maybe tonight I'll try setting the distance to where it should be... and see how that affects the bass response. I also set the sub to volume half way, sub crossed over at 80 in the receiver, the crossover in the subwoofer to off.


Has anyone else experienced the same issue and perhaps found a reason behind it?

regards,

Mike

Originally posted by TaCtIkZ
I'm in the same boat... I performed the Autosetup feature on the 3805, using the denon Mic, and I went with a tape measure to see how accurate it is... and sure enough.....the mic calculated the distances down to the inch, literally. The only one that was off was the subwoofer for distance, and I too found that the sub had very diminished bass output. My sub is 8.3 ft away from the sweet spot, but the Denon flagged it as 12.6 ft away. In the manual it states that powered subs usually flag as a fake distance due to the delay in it's own power suppy so I left the incorrect measurement. Maybe tonight I'll try setting the distance to where it should be... and see how that affects the bass response. I also set the sub to volume half way, sub crossed over at 80 in the receiver, the crossover in the subwoofer to off.


Has anyone else experienced the same issue and perhaps found a reason behind it?

regards,

Mike

I think I know why the bass was weak - at least for CD audio. I had the sub mode at LFE and I believe it should be LFE + Main for my particular speaker arrangement. I still would be interested in hearing if others have set the crossover freq to 250Hz for the calibration. I guess I'll have to experiment tonight.

Originally posted by min7b5
I think I know why the bass was weak - at least for CD audio. I had the sub mode at LFE and I believe it should be LFE + Main for my particular speaker arrangement. I still would be interested in hearing if others have set the crossover freq to 250Hz for the calibration. I guess I'll have to experiment tonight.


I had just LFE set on my 3803, and then again just LFE on my 3805. I actually wrote down all my 3803 settings, so maybe tonight after I get home from work I'll reset the 3805 to factory defaults and then set everything to the same numbers that I had set on the 3803. Wish I still had it for a head to head comparison. I would really like to get to the bottom of this subwoofer issue.

cheers,

Mike

I interpreted the directions to set the crossover to max frequency, not minimum frequency. I did so before autocalibration and if anything, my sub was too hot after the auto cal procedure. Keep in mind, I don't have the Denon mic yet.

I interpreted the directions to set the crossover to max frequency Ya, set you subs crossover to max or disable it completely.
I did so before auto calibration and if anything, my sub was too hot after the auto cal procedure. Keep in mind, I don't have the Denon mic yet.How did you auto calibrate without a mic?

I think he did it with a NON-Denon mic. As for the sub frequency, on the sub itself the crossover is off, and the crossover for the sub on the reciever was set to 80.


any other suggestions? could I have possibly done something wrong?

Well, I finally picked up my 3805 this afternoon with the Denon mic. My local dealer gave me a pretty good deal on it, so I'm feeling pretty happy. I got it home, brought it into the kitchen and put it on the floor (this receiver is a "chunk") and opened it up. I, too, was surprised that the internal packaging wasn't more secure. There was a long length of masking tape kind of holding everything together (see somebody else's pic at the head of the thread...mine is identical). While the remote looks really cool at Denon's site, it feels like a cheap P.O.S. when held. It's lightweight and the "touch screen" has got a really hokey covering on it. I was really hoping for something a little more hefty and solid feeling. This won't make it to the coveted coffee table. I've got an older Sony universal touch screen remote which, while sucking all on its own, I will probably use until upgrading to a Pronto or other "real" remote control unit. Enough about the remote.

The receiver itself is a beast. The power supply (clearly visible through the vented cover) is massive and weighs a ton. I was surprised at how off balance the receiver was coming out of the box (not that it's a bad thing... I was just surprised). The unit itself is very solid feeling and in pristine condition. I'm also pleased at the heft of the removable power cord. It's much more than I expected. I put the 3805 on the floor near my older Sony receiver and started to laugh at how massive this thing looks next to my STR-DE845.

I won't have a chance to start hooking it up until Friday, so I'll post more then.

I'd really like to thank everybody that has posted on this thread and have shed much-needed light on an intriguing receiver that I hadn't seen until I opened mine up on my kitchen floor. I'm really looking forward to setting it up and using the auto-eq feature. I'll chime in between connections!

J.

Any of the early adopters coming up with some detailed reviews (please :)) for us fence sitters ?

Jason,

I'm glad you finally received your 3805. I felt just like you last year when my dealer delivered my 3803 :cool:

Enjoy!

ok... finally got a chance to mess around with it... even though the auto-eq set my front stage speakers to large... I changed them all to small, set room eq to normal, and everything else that the autoeq set I left untouched. The system just came to life. I am speechless at how much difference there is with the imaging of redbook cd's compared to the 3803. Every Disc I play, puts a smile on my face. Every movie I put in, sounds amazing. As for the surround... the stage wraps around the room, and sounds equal all around. Everything sounds even... and very filling. I played a little with the sub level, and after playing different scenes at different settings, I ended up finding a level where the sub sounded like it blended into the soundtracks well. When I went to check the level on the 3805, it ended up being right where the mic set it to to begin with. I love this unit, and I am extatic that I upgraded. Worth every penny. I know I've read a lot of complaints about the remote... and personally I liked the 3803 remote better... but after playing with this one... I really don't find it unusable. I've used much worse. I haven't been home during hours where I can really play this at reference levels, so I'm looking forward to Saturday when I can put the volume past -25 :)




cheers,

Mike

Originally posted by kwkarth
I interpreted the directions to set the crossover to max frequency, not minimum frequency. I did so before autocalibration and if anything, my sub was too hot after the auto cal procedure. Keep in mind, I don't have the Denon mic yet.

I guess I interpreted maximum frequency differently. Technically, I believe you are correct - a minimum freq would be the higher value of 250Hz. I assumed that the instructions were written for non-technical people and that min-max would correspond to low-high on a numerical scale.

I will try again tonight using the lowest (maximum) crossover setting (40Hz I think).

Originally posted by min7b5
I guess I interpreted maximum frequency differently. Technically, I believe you are correct - a minimum freq would be the higher value of 250Hz. I assumed that the instructions were written for non-technical people and that min-max would correspond to low-high on a numerical scale.

I will try again tonight using the lowest (maximum) crossover setting (40Hz I think).

Houston, I think we have a communication problem :)
Minimum=40Hz and Maximum=250Hz. I believe the manual instructs one (as others have mentioned) to either completely disable the crossover or at the least set it to maximum (250Hz) or whatever the max for your particular sub happens to be. That way you let the receiver choose the best crossover point by measurement and the receiver imposes the high and low pass filters from that point on... At least that's the way I read it... YMMV

Originally, I too thought the remote was going to be unusable for me. I currently use an inexpensive RS JP1 remote which I have programed to control my whole system. While this works well for me, it is confusing for the wife and guests who are unfamiliar with settings. After playing around with the 3805 remote, I was able to get most of the devices and major funtions of unsupported devices working properly. While the remote does seem to be a bit fragile, it is much easier to use for my wife. Since I keep the room dark when watching movies, the backlit keypad is a essential.

Originally posted by kwkarth
Houston, I think we have a communication problem :)
Minimum=40Hz and Maximum=250Hz. I believe the manual instructs one (as others have mentioned) to either completely dissable the crossover or at the least set it to maximum (250Hz) or whatever the max for your particular sub happens to be. That way you let the receiver choose the best crossover point by measurement and the receiver imposes the high and low pass filters from that point on... At least that's the way I read it... YMMV

Huh - I thought your post was suggesting the opposite. Thanks for the clarification.

I don't think the receiver chooses the xover freq though. After I ran the auto eq the freq remained at 250Hz. I then set it back to the recommended 80Hz. I'm new to this stuff so forgive me if my questions seem stupid.

I thought I read somewhere that the new Denon 3805 doesn't support two channel with sub, is this true? I'm not sure, it might not have been the 3805 that I read that about, I can't recall. However, i'm buying bookshelves for fronts, so I would like to be able to use a sub with 2-channel stuff.

Subs w/ 2ch seem to work for me...

cool, that's good news. Maybe it was the Yamaha 2400 that I read that about.

Originally posted by Scott Tucker
So i will return the one with a rattle that works fine, and pick up one without a rattle that doesn't work fine.

I ended out exchanging my remote... not because of the "rattle", but about a week ago none of the buttons on the lower 1/2 of the remote would light up, so I couldn't read the function of the button. Tried replacing the batteries, but had the same result.

Am I asking for trouble by saying this remote works fine??? :)

When listening to an HDCD I was able to use 2 speakers + sub.

Brian

Ah lord that cut rate price on the 801 is tempting, but I'm trying to hold strong and wait for my 3805 to come in ;). DPLIIx will be worth it... right? Patience, patience.

When my 3805 comes in, I'll try using the ratshack spl meter instead of a mic. Yeah, I'm cheap. I read the instructions (http://www.usa.denon.com/catalog/pdfs/AutoSetup%20Mic%203805.pdf) but I'm not following it all. What settings should I use on the meter?

Or, if others have experienced a big difference with a "real mic", maybe I can borrow a mic from my church.

The digital meter may have better freq. response since it's a newer design. I have both and they seem to measure pretty similarly. Set it to "C" weighting, fast response @ the 60 or 70db scale depending on the size and "livliness" of your room. When the sound pulses are emitted by the speakers, you want to see the indicated SPL's fall around the middle of the indicated range to ensure you're getting the best performance out of the meter's preamp.

[Am I asking for trouble by saying this remote works fine??? :) [/B][/QUOTE]

Just got my unit and my remote too has a rattle, but seems to working fine. Love the backlighting in the dark.

Scott

I believe that the rattle is what makes it light up when it is moved.
just a guess though.

Just got my unit and my remote too has a rattle

Sounds like a tilt switch.... open when layed down slides down to make contact when in the verticial position just a guess ;)
cheers laurie

Originally posted by TaCtIkZ
I believe that the rattle is what makes it light up when it is moved.
just a guess though.

My remote rattles as well and I believe that it is related to a switch to activate the backlight. Not an issue with me and I am starting to enjoy this remote. I'm sure it doesn't compare to some of the more expensive programmable remotes on the market but it works for me.

My remote does not rattle, it just eats batteries! :) I like the functionality and even the ergonomics of it aren't bad. I think it was a mistake to design it to use AAA batteries though. It should have been made to accommodate AA's.

Originally posted by kwkarth
My remote does not rattle, it just eats batteries! :) I like the functionality and even the ergonomics of it aren't bad. I think it was a mistake to design it to use AAA batteries though. It should have been made to accommodate AA's.

Would it be a good idea to use rechargeables in this remote, or they should be avoided ?

kwkarth, since you have had your 3805 for a while now, should we expect some detailed review soon? :) (There are lots of us waiting for it )

I've had the 3805 for just short of a week now. Only minimal time to set up and explore. Upgrading from about a 12 year old 85W reciever, so there is an obviously big jump in "oomph" that I am enjoying, (when my wife and 1 year old aren't around).

However, there seems to be a definite trend here- my 3805 remote has a rattle as well. It sounds like a small screw or piece of plastic loose inside the case...it doesn't bother me too much, but it does make me want to open it up and see what it is. Has anybody asked Denon if this should be expected or if it should be considered a defect?

I actually like the remote, and between the macros, preset codes and learning functions I think I'll be able to get it to do pretty much everything I need. My father has a Kenwood reciever that has an EL remote (similar technology, same blue glow), and I like the Denon's much better. It seems more logically laid out and has more customization features. I'm still on my first set of batteries...for now.

Ben

Originally posted by starlights
Would it be a good idea to use rechargeables in this remote, or they should be avoided ?

kwkarth, since you have had your 3805 for a while now, should we expect some detailed review soon? :) (There are lots of us waiting for it )
Once I get my Denon mic, I will do a more in depth evaluation of the 3805. Overall, I like it very much. There are a number of things I would do to improve the user interface, if it were up to me, but overall, it's not bad. The manual is very poor in my estimation. The receiver itself, with regard to audio performance, seems to be quite nice, but again, I will reserve judgment until I have the Denon mic to calibrate the room/spkrs. Rechargeable batteries *should* be fine in this remote.

I just picked up my 3805 yesterday. I have upgraded from a 3802. I do not have the mic. Tweeter should have it tomorrow. I calibrated with the RS sound level meter. The sound has more depth and presence compared to the 3802. I like the improvements made to the dispay on the receiver. The layout of the back of the receiver is improved as well. All in all my Atlantic technology 350's sing. When I calibrate with the microphone I will report back.

I just picked up my 3805 on friday. Great Unit! I have not calibrated it yet, tweeter did not have the mike. Question. How do I set the processing mode on an input(i.e. I wan't the tv input to default to PLIIx cinemea)? The manual for this thing is almost as bad as the remote. Thank god for my MX-500

I like to listen to music from cd during tv commercials and certian sports events. I have the Denon 3805 receiver. Do any of you 3805 owners know how to switch the audio to cd while keeping the DBS video on screen and do it from the remote control?

It can be done by going to the receiver front panel but is not convient to have to get up and change it for every commerical. Every other receiver I've ever had allowed this function but I can't figure it out on the 3805.

mcampo, this was my one big gripe with the 3803, and since I upgraded to the 3805, they have not addressed this issue. Audio source can only be changed using the front panel.

sorry mon ami, I feel your pain.


Mike

My old Denon AVR-3200 allowed audio switching so I presumed the 3805 would also. This is a real downer for me but so far it is really my only gripe with the 3805 . Well maybe two gripes...the unit should come equiped with a microphone included in the price.

I even like the remote, which btw, I haven't experienced any of the problems with it that others seem to be having.

... on the 3800 model´s remote was a button for the video switch. I could successfully use this IR code for the 3803 too... maybe it will also work for the 3805...

Stefan

is there a way that you could "capture" the code and send it as the 3805 and 3803 remotes did not have that feature.

Why not plug your CDP into the external in? You can select that from remote or front panel and it doesn't matter what you're doing with video, also consider the directions for watching "multicast". That should work too.

Originally posted by TaCtIkZ
is there a way that you could "capture" the code and send it as the 3805 and 3803 remotes did not have that feature.


TaCtIkZ,

there is a ccf-file for the Philips Pronto on remotecentral.com - in the file area search for AVC-3800 (author: Patrick Fischer).
The code can be learned by any other remote control (including the new Denon´s), but of course, you need a pronto first to use the ccf-file.

Stefan

Originally posted by kwkarth
Why not plug your CDP into the external in? You can select that from remote or front panel and it doesn't matter what you're doing with video, also consider the directions for watching "multicast". That should work too.

The "external in" would be a solution but it would also bypass the 3805's DACs (which I think sound much better than my cdp) and I don't want to give that up.

The "multicast" trick works from the unit's front panel but not the remote.

Originally posted by boysmile
... on the 3800 model´s remote was a button for the video switch. I could successfully use this IR code for the 3803 too... maybe it will also work for the 3805...

Stefan

Are you saying that the remote on the 3805 could possibly "learn" the video switch function from the remote on my old 3200?

BTW, I've emailed Denon about this but haven't received a reply yet.

Originally posted by kwkarth
My remote does not rattle, it just eats batteries!

I thought my remote didn't have a rattle until my young son picked it up and shook the crap out of the thing. Under normal use, it does not rattle. I do believe the rattle comes from the sensor that triggers the light.

This post will be long so bare with me. I'm not a technical specialist, but I will describe this the best way I know how. As many of you may/may not know, I recently upgraded my two main pieces in my H/T, my receiver and my DVD/SACD player. I replaced my Sony STR-DA4ES receiver and my Sony DVP-NC685V (5-disc) DVD/SACD player with the new Denon AVR-3805 receiver and the Denon DVD-2900. This is probally one decision I'll never look back on again. Keep in effect that I have been a loyal fan of Sony for years. To be completely honest with you, at first I had thought I had made a mistake with the AVR. The first 3805 I received, with the first 2 days of owning it, I had to take the remote back, was not working properly, and 2 days later, I had to return the unit itself, the power supply started to hum badly. But once swapped out with a new unit, everything had worked flawlessly since. So, this is basically going to be my review of the 3805. As far as the 2900, here is a link for the latest review. I'll do my review on the 2900 sometime within the next week.

http://www.audiorevolution.com/equip/denon_dvd_2900/index.html

Denon AVR-3805
Build quality:

The 3805 is slightly lighter than the Sony (by 5lbs. +/-), but the first thing you notice once unboxing the 3805 is the massive power supply. I really liked the layout of the connections on the back of the Sony more so then the Denon, Sonys seemed more organized. As far as user friendly, they seem to be about the same. Forgot to mention, if placing the Denon above shoulder height, be careful, with the massive power supply, the weight is very off centered. The other feature I really like is the flip down face on the front of the receiver. With 2 small kids and family members that can't keep there hands to themselves, it makes it nice that they can't see any buttons that they can play with. So as far as the build quality of the Denon, very well built in my opinion.

Setup:

Once I got used to how Denon's menus worked, everything went fine. The one thing I really like about the Denon is everything can be done onscreen or on the display of the receiver. The one thing I found that is extremely nice is the Auto Room/Auto EQ feature of the 3805. Basically, I just placed the optional DMS-305 mic at my sweet spot, started the test, and walking upstairs until it was done. As far as accuracy, dead on. I thought it was to good to be true so what I did was after the Denon had finished calulating everything, I measured my distances with a tape measure, sure enough, within the inch. This is my first time using such feature so I'm pretty sure the other manufactures are just as accurate.
With the room EQ, when the receiver is measureing the distances to your speakers, I'm guessing it also runs at a certain frequency so you don't have to run the test again to setup the room EQ, you just have to select the EQ setting you prefer and its done. The only problems I ran into was, when it sets the speaker size, it set the fronts to large and everything else to small. Well beings I'm using a PB2+, I run my fronts on small also as do many others on this forum. Secondly, the sub was way to HOT for my taste. So once the auto portion was done, I swapped out the Denon mic with the trusty old Radio Shack SPL meter to see how accurate it was, seemed pretty on to me other than the sub that is so I adjusted that manually. So, as far as setup, very well thought out in my opinion.

Sound quality:

No matter what I throw at it, it sounds amazing. The Sony receiver just seemed so bright compared to the Denon. As far as watching movies now, Denon took it to a whole new level in my H/T. The first movie the wife and I watched was T3. My wife never says a word about how nice it sounds until hearing the Denon for the first time. She had forgotten that I had replaced the AVR and DVD player and the first thing she asked, what on earth did you do. Every single noise was heard and even some things I had not heard before. I thought the house was going to fall down around us we where listening to it so loud. I know that the Denon is only 10 watts more per channel compaired to the Sony, but it just seemed like there was more @#$ behind it. Now I have to start watching all my favorite movies all over again, I'm sure the neighbors will enjoy that. As far as SACD/DVD Audio, I'll cover that when I do my review of the 2900.

Well, I'd better get back to work. These treaded Mondays seem like they will never end. Thanks to all that either reply or just take the time to read my review. Hope everyone had a Happy Easter!!!!

Originally posted by JasonColeman
So do all of the current 3805 owners have their mics on order? Is there a time frame when they will be available? How many have tried alternate routes like other manufacturer's mics? Does anybody have the recommended Denon mic?

Bottom line...How's the 3805 with music, especially 2-channel? At this point, anything is going to be a step in the right direction, but most of my use is simply listening to music (and...GASP...I'm not always sitting down in the sweet spot!). Did I say that out loud? Maybe the 3805 isn't the route I should go. I really need a robust receiver that is relatively future proof for the time being (maybe "relatively" and "time being" are redundant). I love the auto-eq setup, at least on paper, since I've got quite the "sonically challenged" listening environment. I plan on supplementing any new receiver with a decent 2 or 3 channel amp for the front end to feed my bloodthirsty Studio 100's. Again, I was initially leaning towards the Yamaha 2400 until the 3805 reared it's head and caught my attention.

I traded up from a Yamaha RX-V 2400 to the 3805 and I'm much happier with the 3805 in both 2 ch and multi ch. I only listen to music in 2 ch (can't quite get used to multichannel music). The 2400 is a sweet machine but I like the "sound" of the 3805 better. It seem to have a very low noise floor. In fact I like it better than my Anthem Pre 2 L/California Audio Labs Alpha DAC. So much so that I'm selling them. I know that this will sound like heresey to some and like practicality to others but in my view, the technology has caught up and most of these new reveivers in the 1000-2000 range will sound as good as- if not better than- (gasp) more expensive separates.

I think it's the DACs in the Denon that make the difference. My reference is piano music. The Denon seems to allow the piano to sound like the percussive instrument that it is. This percussive quality (evident at the very begining of a note-transient responce) comes through better on the Denon than it does with the Cal DAC and the MSB link DAC that I own. Also bass and drums have more of that "plosive" (and quite robust as opposed to the 2400) quality that I look for from live music. I use an Odyssey Stratos amp for the front mains to drive Magnepan MG12s. In the last six months I've been through 3 receivers (Pioneer 47X, Yamaha 2400, and the 3805) and I think I'll be keeping the Denon for quite a while.

P.S: I picked up the Denon mike from Tweeter last Friday. The first thing that I notice about the mike is that it is substantially heavier than the Yamaha mike with a longer wire. The auto setup on the 3805 is much faster than on the 2400. I find the auto/manual setup on the Denon much more intuitive than the Yamaha, perhaps because I'm familiar with Denon's ways after having had an AVR-3200 for so long.

Originally posted by mcampo
Are you saying that the remote on the 3805 could possibly "learn" the video switch function from the remote on my old 3200?

BTW, I've emailed Denon about this but haven't received a reply yet.


... yes... at least it worked with the 3803 because the "IR-Module" inside the 3803 could do the video switching, it was just that the remote didn´t have a button for it... Maybe it´s still the same with the 3805...

When you have a remote sending the signal (the 3800 remote or any Pronto), your new Denon remote can easily learn it.

I had gotten this information by Denon Germany who were really helpful and called me back after I had emailed the question.

I will find out if it still works when I will receive my 3805 next week.
Although I don´t own a Pronto anymore, I have stored the code on a cheap learnable remote.

Stefan

Thanks Stefan. I'll try it with my old 3200 remote and let you know how it turns out.

Originally posted by RGrim


Sound quality:

No matter what I throw at it, it sounds amazing. The Sony receiver just seemed so bright compared to the Denon. As far as watching movies now, Denon took it to a whole new level in my H/T. The first movie the wife and I watched was T3. My wife never says a word about how nice it sounds until hearing the Denon for the first time. She had forgotten that I had replaced the AVR and DVD player and the first thing she asked, what on earth did you do. Every single noise was heard and even some things I had not heard before. I thought the house was going to fall down around us we where listening to it so loud. I know that the Denon is only 10 watts more per channel compaired to the Sony, but it just seemed like there was more @#$ behind it. Now I have to start watching all my favorite movies all over again, I'm sure the neighbors will enjoy that. As far as SACD/DVD Audio, I'll cover that when I do my review of the 2900.


RGrim,
I know exactly what you mean. The Denon just sounds so much more robust (for lack of a better word) than other receivers I've auditioned lately.

mcampo,

I have an AVR-3803 and used my old AVR-2700 remote to "learn" the video select button. The 3803/3805 and 2700/3200 receivers are similar to each other so it should work for you also :cool:.

I don't have a Pronto to learn the code, but I've been toying with a 2210 Ipaq PDA to use as my universal remote, and the software should take ccf files. Another option that just came to mind was finding emulator software for my PC as my desktop PC has IR on it (10 dollar option for almost amy Asus motherboard) to emulate the ccf files that the 3805 remote can learn.


As for the sound quality of the 3805... my Father came over last night to hear it, being an acclaimed professional musician in a symphony orchestra, I really wanted him opinion. When he was listening to it, he didn't say a word, just nodded his head in a particular way as the Denon played. Demo'd several classical pieces in DVD-A, and then SACD, Redbook CD, and ended with LOTR-ROTK. if anyone has purchased an Audigy 2 soundcard for their PC, it came with a nice dvd audio demo cd, which my father asked me to play again, which I did. As he left he was beaming ear to ear... said that he didn't think the sound was reproduced, and couldn't believe that the sound was coming from speakers. He loved it. I don't think my father has ever understood my spending money, especially on materialistic things, but at least for the stereo, I think he finally did.

:)

Originally posted by GarAlb
mcampo,

I have an AVR-3803 and used my old AVR-2700 remote to "learn" the video select button. The 3803/3805 and 2700/3200 receivers are similar to each other so it should work for you also :cool:.

Ureka! It works. I got my 3805 remote to learn the video select button from the old 3200 remote. I assigned it to one of the unused buttons in the cd display.

Here is the reply I received from Denon support regarding this: "Dear Mike,
You could hook ZONE 2 video out to your TV. Then turn on ZONE2 choose your REC SELECT and you will get a different source from your receiver on your TV". Sounds a bit more complex but I guess it'll work. I still think Denon should have provided for this without having to jump through hoops.

Hrm... might have to dig out my old Pronto just for this purpose.

-MP

Hey guys,
I joined the AVR -3805 club this past week-end.
Thanks Jason & DAN for your PM help.
I'm still setting it up and playing with it, I'll post my comments once everything breaks in more.

2 quick questions

#1) When I first set-up my reciever , the OSD was fine.Now everytime I use OSD, Its half off my screen where i can't see all the parameters to adjust?? My tv cant change aspect ratio for HD , and my sat (Dish 6000) is set for normal aspect ratio with the dish 6000 upconverting all signals to HD.(same as I always had set-up????)

#2) Can you use the auto eq settings for each speaker from the auto set-up W/ the Denon microphone for "ext-in" sources like DVD-A?

Thanks for any light anyone can shed on these questions,
......Your friend Shawners

Originally posted by mcampo
It seem to have a very low noise floor.
I think it's the DACs in the Denon that make the difference.
I think so as well. Denon uses PCM1791 DACs with -113dB Dynamic range in the differential mode, it means that the Dynamic range in each channel is -113dB-3dB=-116dB, the level of THD+N is <0.001%, twice as low as in AK4382 as well ... http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/pcm1791a.pdf... and Yamaha uses AK4382 for the front channels and they are only -112dB Dynamic range and -94dB THD+N=0.002%
Then if we will add the difference in the following op amps - JRC5532 in 3805 and JRC2068 in 2400:
http://www.njr.co.jp/pdf/ae/ae04058.pdf (JRC5532 THD<0.0006% at Vout=5V 1 kHz) and
http://www.njr.co.jp/pdf/ae/ae04022.pdf (JRC2068 THD<0.001% at 1 kHz Vout=5V) we will have again a small difference ... don't forget, the distortions are cumulative, it means that the doubled level of distortions, produced in DACs will be amplified by op amps and the own THD of op amps will be added to the harmonics, produced by DACs plus distortions, produced by distorted in op amps harmonics of DACs, will be added as well... the final difference might be just a little bit in the standard measurements of THD (usually 3rd or 3rd and 5th harmonics), but audible, because our ears are very sensitive to the higher harmonics, which are not measured ... IMHO :)
P.S. in the REAL measurements the level of distortions in JRC2068 is in difference with JRC5532 - 352mV in JRC2068 vs 286mV in JRC5532
http://fnt-www.ss.titech.ac.jp/~hajime/uec/distortion/opa/2068.gif (more higher harmonics)
http://fnt-www.ss.titech.ac.jp/~hajime/uec/distortion/opa/5532.gif

In another thread, kwkarth mentioned driving 10 speakers with the 3805, including 4 surround sides. How do you hook this up? Is the benefit that you can spread the side surround over several rows of seating? How does DLPIIx handle having 9.1? Does it simply send the side surround output to both sets?

Just because he is hooking up 9 or 10 speakers to a 3805, does not make it a true 9.1 setup.

Well... yes it does. I mean, you may not have any type of processing which would give you 9.1. But it is in fact a 9.1 system ;). That aside, pe his post the Denon will perform a seperate speaker equilization for all ten speakers during the autosetup. So obviously it knows they are there. I just wanted to understand what was happening, and how the second set of sides was hooked up.

Originally posted by Doubichou
I got my 3805 last night (replacing a 3803) and so far so good. The remote is kind of cool but I will stick my my MX500. I have not been able to do any type of critical listening yet to compare to 3803 but so far it does sound as good if not better. I like the overall look of the receiver: I was getting tired of 2800 then 3802 then 3803. The display is nice but quit larger than the one on the 3803. It might actually be a distraction during a movie.
I am glad I sold my 3803 for $700 and bought the 3805 for $900. The $200 upgrade was worth it.

I'd like to buy one of these for about $900 like this person. Anyone have any suggestions?

You can get them from unauthorized resellers for that price.

-MP

Originally posted by DirtRider
I'd like to buy one of these for about $900 like this person. Anyone have any suggestions?

Good luck. I got mine in person for $999 and that was by far the best I have seen.

Brian

Originally posted by DirtRider
I'd like to buy one of these for about $900 like this person. Anyone have any suggestions?


DAKMART (http://www.dakmart.com/website/ItemDetail.asp?ItemId=41296&cID=19) is an authorized B-Stock supplier for Denon and offers a 1 year warranty!


peace

Has anyone bought b stock refurbs like this before? What is your experience with them? I know I had to get 3 cell phone replacements because I got refurbs. Maybe this is not a good idea but I am curious to other opinions.

Originally posted by DirtRider
Has anyone bought b stock refurbs like this before?

I bought a Denon DVD1600 from eCost as a refurb. The first unit they sent had a problem (wouldn't spin the disk) but they sent another which was fine. The only hassle (apart from waiting) was dropping the first unit off for UPS to ship back to them on their dime. I'm pretty sure they shipped the second as soon as I notified them of the problem.

I'm thinking of going that route for a receiver too (underpaid grad student) once I've saved up enough for this and some speakers (first HT for me). I want to be able to test it out immediately in case of problems.

I would rather pay an extra mark up and buy from a local b&m ($1059 at Tweeter and $1039 at Ultimate if you ask) for the piece of mind you get from:

A. Full factory warranty
B. 120 day reufnd policy (at least from Tweeter and you can talk them into expanding it)
C. Sales staff is eager to sell and take care of customers due to stiff competition with Ultimate Electronics and will honor each others prices if one is lower.

In the past six month I've gone through 3 different receivers (Pioneer Elite, Yamaha 2400, and now Denon 3805) this way. For me, this has been a great way to demo and live with a product for a while before I decide that I want to keep it. Well worth the extra mark up IMHO.

Originally posted by DirtRider
I'd like to buy one of these for about $900 like this person. Anyone have any suggestions?

DirtRider
Go to the Denon site and look up the authorized dlrs in your area. Then start calling them up to negotiate. Depending on your negotiation skills, you will be able to shop around (Hint - you could try use one dlr's price against another for a shot at better price)

Since this is a very new product, you luck may depend on availability with the dlr.

Dont ask me the name of the dlr (auth B&M / from Denon Website), but I have a quote of $820. I intend to pick up the receiver next week.
Many here will find it hard to believe, but thats not my worry.

I always shop around for the best possible deal since my eyes (or ears :)) are bigger than my pocket. - a penny saved is a penny earned

Good Luck

Has anyone found the 3805S (silver model) yet? All the dealers in my area say it will be the end of the month at the earliest before they will receive any shipments. Even Crutchfield doesn't seem to have them yet although it is listed on their web site.

does the auto eq feature work when using the pre outs to an external power amp?

Is there a difference between the equalizer in this denon 3805 and the one in the yamaha rx-v1400? Does the yamaha have more options to fine tune it than the denon after it is equalized? Thanks

Originally posted by F355
does the auto eq feature work when using the pre outs to an external power amp?

Yes it does.

Well looks like I will be finding out how much I like this thing cause I just bought one. $1065 out the door including the mic from an authorized dealer. I didn't think I'd find much better than that so I jumped on it.

Does the AVR-3805 have a (AFD) auto format decoding mode like Sony's receivers do for the digital input?

---
Does the AVR-3805 have a (AFD) auto format decoding mode like Sony's receivers do for the digital input?
---

Yes, it does have an auto detect surround format mode.

Has anyone found the 3805S (silver model) yet? All the dealers in my area say it will be the end of the month at the earliest before they will receive any shipments. Even Crutchfield doesn't seem to have them yet although it is listed on their web site.

Received my silver 3805 a week ago this past Tuesday but it had been on order since the end of January. They are out there, just gotta keep on your local dealer. It could also be that since dales have been so good, they may be out at the California warehouse (where I believe Denon ships them first). Anyway, good luck! You will definitely like it, I sure do.

Good Guys the silvers here in California has them. I ordered one last Tuesday and got it Friday.

Alright, so after 15641 views and 231 posts on this thread, I finally got my god damn 3805. Actually (as I posted), I picked it up last Wednesday night. I didn't get a chance to hook it up and check it out until last Friday morning before going out of town until last night (spring break...God's mercy for educators!). So I got it unpacked Friday morning after pouring over the remote Wednesday and Thursday and finally hooked it up.

Initial thoughts...wow.

It is really that simple. No auto-eq, no fine tuning, no adjustments, nothing.
Simply "wow."

I hooked up my front channel (Studio 100's) and my CD player (Pioneer's 45A universal) and dropped in Interpol's "Turn on the Bright Lights" and I was floored. The difference between this receiver and my older Sony was immediately noticeable. Clarity, precision, detail, depth, soundstage, imaging, etc. It was like listening to this album (CD) for the first time. I just sat on the floor and smiled.

Thoroughly intrigued by its 2-channel performance, I powered down and hooked up the rest of my hodge-podge 5.1 system (Paradigm ADP-170's and Def Tech CLR 2300). Once I was all connected, I ran the auto-eq with the Denon mic on a tripod in the "sweet spot" and let 'er rip. The test tones were actually not nearly as loud as I thought they were going to be (I put the dog in the laundry room as a precaution!). After the testing, I checked the measurements and they were dead on. I popped in Beck's "Sea Change" multichannel SACD for a couple of tracks and just sat there and drooled. Again...wow.

So then I figured I'd try to familiarize myself with the remote, although the jury's still out on whether or not we'll use it. My wife said something along the lines of, "Yeah, I can't even figure out how to turn on the TV with the remote we've had for 4 years." Being the optimistic problem-solver that I'm known to be I replied, "Well, then it won't make any difference, will it?" At any rate, while listening to Pink Floyd's "Animals" (which happens to be my "Desert Island" album) in 2-channel and sitting on the floor in front of the 3805, it shut itself down and went into what I figure must be Denon's version of protection mode. The light around the main Power button was flashing red (which is never a good sign) and everything went dead. I checked the few connections that I had at the back of the receiver and followed the manual's instructions for such a power down (ie- let the unit cool off, check loose speaker wire strands, etc). I wasn't listening to it very loud at all, in fact I was sitting only a couple of feet from one of the Studio 100's when it shut down.

After confirming that everything was OK, I powered back up and to my horror a small flash "erupted" under the cover in the back right quadrant of the receiver! It immediately shut down again with the red light flashing. I leaned forward and could smell the odor of freshly roasted components. I probably ran the receiver for a grand total of 35 minutes before it cashed out on me. I suppose this occasionally happens, but it's never happened to me before. Anyways, completely confounded by the situation, I called the local B&M that I picked it up from and explained to them what had happened. The salesman that I work with was off for the day, but the person I spoke with knew me and assured me that they would give me a new unit as soon as one became available.

So, as I mentioned an era or two ago, we were going out of town Friday night for a few days (up to visit that place where a man got his foot stuck in a bucket...what rhymes with "bucket?") so I had to sit tight with the fried unit packed up by the door and wait until we got back to exchange it for a new one. If I haven't mentioned in previous posts, I'm not the patient type. I waited a few weeks for this unit to finally come in and knew that there was a pretty substantial waiting list to get one of these, so I wasn't sure how long it was going to be. To my delight (and this is why I shop B&M), the other salesperson e-mailed my usual guy at home (on his own accord) and let him know what the situation was. My usual guy, let's call him "Rich" got the e-mail and immediately called his Denon supplier and got a unit Fed-Ex'ed out him the next day (not knowing that I was out of town). I came back in last night and called this morning and he said that they had it waiting for me to come pick it up. No questions, no concerns, no complaints.

Fortunately I haven't had many issues like this. However, whenever I have had a problem, my local B&M's have stepped up to the plate and handled them in a courteous and professional manner every single time. Hey...I'm the first to track down a bargain and save some cheese when I can. However, I'm willing to spend a few more bucks to get this kind of service (not to mention the authorized dealer catch). I don't really want to try to imagine what kind of nightmare this could have been if I had gone through an e-tailer.

OK, I'm done. I'll check back in sometime this weekend after getting this bad boy hooked up and running.

J.

ps- Thanks Rich!

Jason,
Wow, what a story. I've never had a piece of equipment crap out like that but I have had others that I just wasn't happy with after I got it home and had a chance to listen in my own environment. It's situations like these that make buying from a good B&M store a must. Customer service is everything in a situation like yours. Glad to hear it was resolved so quickly.

BTW, did anyone ever figure out what happend to the 3805?

Mcampo-

Not that I've heard, but I just returned it yesterday morning. I'll check with them in a week or so to see if they were able to figure anything out. In the meantime, I'm looking forward to setting up my 3805 (again!).

J.

Well after calling Crutchfields back again, they now say have the 3805S in stock which confirms what their web site says. I guess the original salesman didn't know what they were selling.

My choice is to pay full MSRP from Crutchfields or wait at least 2-3 more weeks for one of the local B&M's and still not be assured of getting it much below MSRP since it's considered a special order item and there are only 3 local Denon dealers.

Since I've been waiting for this receiver since January and my old Yammy is not up to task with the rest of my gear, I'll probably pull the trigger from Crutchfields. At least they have free shipping. It's the pits that here in NE Florida we seem to always be near the last area of the country getting new products. The same thing happened when I ordered my Fujitsu plasma.

Scolumbo, Don't feel so bad, where I live the closest Denon dealer is 3 hours away. Then next one is 5 hours away. And neither will give me a price over the phone.

Tell ya what BobBart...it's worth the drive :D When my wife commented on the major difference is sound quality and told me it was one of my best purchases....well, you know it's pretty good.

The instructions for programming the remote are a little (lot) cryptic, but it's really pretty good too. It operates everything in my system and the macro functions made it real big in the WAF department.

Mort

Originally posted by kwkarth
I too, have found that my remote "eats" batteries. I'm on my third set of alkalines. I hope they have a recall of the remotes. I'm not happy about that. I love the receiver itself.

I am now on my 4th set of batteries for the remote. This is beginning to bother me...

The Denon dealer from whom I bought my 3805 has happily replaced my remote again. Neither of us expect any substantial change. The Dealer has reported the remote battery problems to the Denon Rep and we're waiting to hear back from Denon regarding what they're going to do about the problem. Oh well, still love the receiver, but don't buy it for the remote, because the chances of you liking the remote are, well... rather remote.;)

Got an email from Denon stating that the remote rattle is normal as it is the tilt sensor for the backlite. Most make noise, some do not. Its not a problem with the remote. JFYI

need help guys. i upgrade from the yamaha 2300 to the denon 3805. i was looking at the 2400 until i bought the denon 5900 dvd player. my main use is for the home theater dvd's 85% of the time. my thing with the denon 3805 is that i have to go almost all the way with the volume just to get a nice true theater sound. but with my yammy 2300 i only had to go just about half way to get that sound i was looking for. yes the denon 3805 is crisp and clean but i can't tell any noticable upgrade in the movie department. i paid 1020.00 for the denon and i can get the yammy 2400 for 700.00. i have bose 15's in my set up for now. is this normal for denon or what is up. please help me make up my mind. i have two more days to return the denon 3805.

Originally posted by kwkarth
The Denon dealer from whom I bought my 3805 has happily replaced my remote again. Neither of us expect any substantial change. The Dealer has reported the remote battery problems to the Denon Rep and we're waiting to hear back from Denon regarding what they're going to do about the problem. Oh well, still love the receiver, but don't buy it for the remote, because the chances of you liking the remote are, well... rather remote.;)

Nice pun Kwkarth...the remote really leaves a lot to be desired, but I've loaded up my new one with batteries and we'll see how it goes. We're having people over tomorrow night for HBO-HD and XBox and DVD's and all that crap including some down home old fashioned music listening.

I'm hoping to get my 3805 set up tomorrow morning (am I really one of the last pathetic *******s to get my sh*t set up after starting this thread?!). I think the wife needs to go run some random errands (food, clothing, nuclear power...who knows what they're really shopping for anymore!), so I hope to take advantage of the couple of hours of isolation to check this thing out. I'll probably need to pick up some more cables due to its connectivity.

Needless to say, I'm pretty damn excited. This is a serious step up from my previous receiver (which my brother is thrilled to pick up for some loose pocket change to upgrade his own AVR).

I'll post with the toast.

J.

Originally posted by eddie1018
need help guys. i upgrade from the yamaha 2300 to the denon 3805. i was looking at the 2400 until i bought the denon 5900 dvd player. my main use is for the home theater dvd's 85% of the time. my thing with the denon 3805 is that i have to go almost all the way with the volume just to get a nice true theater sound. but with my yammy 2300 i only had to go just about half way to get that sound i was looking for. yes the denon 3805 is crisp and clean but i can't tell any noticable upgrade in the movie department. i paid 1020.00 for the denon and i can get the yammy 2400 for 700.00. i have bose 15's in my set up for now. is this normal for denon or what is up. please help me make up my mind. i have two more days to return the denon 3805.

It sounds like you haven't set up your speaker volumes with the setup program within the recvr. Unless your speakers are highly inefficient the 3805 should be able to blow the walls out of most home theater setups.

Jim

thanks thats a huge difference. i didn't even think of setting it. i thought the mic configuration took care of that. but now what is the best way to set these. should they all be set to 12.0 or should the rears be set higher than the front. what about center and rear center?

eddie, Just let the auto calibration take car of it for you.

eddie,

Do you have the Denon setup microphone to do the auto calibration with? If not you'll need to either get one to do it automatically or get a Radio Shack SPL meter to calibrate speaker levels manually. Also, if you don't have the mic, you'll need to measure the distance from the main listening postion to all speakers and then set the "delay" manually.

When using a SPL meter, you should set the master volume to "0" (be careful not to have any signals input).Set the meter to "c weighted/slow and the dial set to 70. Use the receivers internal test tones (located in the "speaker setup" menu) and raise each channels volume to 75db according to the meter. Do this and the 3805 will allow your speakers to shine as best they can.

P.S.: When you've finished calibration, be sure to remember to turn down the master volume before playing a source i.e. cd, dvd, etc.

yes i have the mic but i will try the rest. they also gave me a yammy 2400 to test out so i am doing the now

OK- Strange experience yesterday with the 3805. While listening to a CD, the receiver kept clicking in and out of HDCD mode every couple of seconds. There was noticeable clicking coming out of the speakers and the display would flash "HDCD" for a second or two before reverting to CD stereo mode. Has anyone else experienced this? It has only happened with this particular CD so far, but I haven't tried that many yet.

Also, when listening to multichannel SACD, the volume levels are incredibly low. Is there some configuration that I need to adjust on the 3805 to even out the levels?

Thanks in advance,

J.

what cd was it.